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PARLIAMENTARY  DEBATES 


ON   THE   SUBJECT   OF   THE 


CONFEDERATION 


or   THE 


BRITISH  NORTH  AMERICAN  PROVINCES, 


3rli  tdcsslon,  8tl)  |i3romu(ial  parliament  of  (Eana^a. 
PlUniTSU  BY  ORD£R  OF  THE  liEfe'ISI^ATIIRE. 


QUEBEC: 

HUNTER,  ROSE  &  CO.,  PARLIAMENTARY  PRINTERS. 

1865. 


^ 


> 


I  ^D  EX. 


LEGISLATIVE     COUNCIL 


PROCEEDINGS. 


February  3. — Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHifi  moved 
that  an  Address  be  presented  to  Her 
Majesty,  praying  that  a  measure  be  sub- 
mitted to  Imperial  Parliament,  based  on 
certain  resolutions,  1. 

February  9. — Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn  moved  an 
amendment  with  reference  to  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  Legislative  Council,  124. 

February  13. — Hon.  Mr.  Reesor  moved 
that  the  debate  be  adjourned  for  ten 
days,  162.     Negatived  by  37  to  19. 

February  14. — Hon.  Mr.  Letellier  DE 
St.  Just  moved  an  amendment  to  Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn's  amendment,  that  the 
debate  be  adjourned  until  certain  infor- 
mation be  laid  before  the  House,  189. 
Negatived  by  38  to  20. 

February  16. — House  divided  on  Hon.  Mr. 
Sanborn's  amendment,  245.  Negatived 
by  42  to  18. 

February  17. — Hon.  Mr.  CuRRlE  moved  in 
amendment  to  the  main  motion,  that  the 
Jlouse  should  not  assent  to  the  measure 
without  a  further  manifestation  of  the 
public  will  than  has  yet  been  declared,  269. 
House  divided  on  said  amendment;  316. 
Negatived  by  31  to  19. 


February  20. — Hon.  Mr.  Aikins  moved  an 
amendment  with  reference  to  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  Legislative  Council,  317. 
A  question  of  order  being  raised,  the 
Hon.  the  Speaker  ruled  the  said  amend- 
ment out  of  order,  318.  Hon.  Mr. 
Reesor  moved  in  amendment,  that  the 
transmission  of  the  Address  should  be 
delayed,  until  the  resolutions  should  be 
approved  by  a  direct  vote  of  the  electors 
of  the  province,  327.  A  question  of 
order  being  raised,  the  Speaker  ruled  the 
said  amendment  to  be  in  order,  328. 
House  divided  on  said  amendment,  333. 
Negatived  by  36  to  19.  House  divided 
on  main  motion,  346.  Carried  by  45  to  15. 
Committee  appointed  to  draft  an  Address. 
Draft  Address  reported,  agreed  to,  and 
ordered  to  be  engrossed.  Ordered  that 
an  Address  be  presented  to  the  G-overnor 
General  by  the  whole  House,  requesting 
him  to  transmit  said  Address  to  Her 
Majesty,  346. 

Fehrnary  23. — Tlie  House  waited  on  His 
Excellency  with  their  Address  to  Her 
Majesty.  His  Excellency's  reply, 
421. 


%*  The  names  of  the  Electoral  Divisions  represented  by  elected  members  are  given  in  Italics.     Life 

members  are  distinguished  by  [L]  following  the  name. 


Aikins,  Hon.  James  C.  \^Eome'],  154-159, 

208,  217,  316-317. 
Alexander,  Hon.  George  {^Gorel,  80-82, 

207-208. 
Allan,  Hon.   George  W.  [Zor^],  115- 

118. 
Armand,  Hon.  Joseph  F.  \Alma\  209- 

210. 
Belleau,  Hon.  Sir    N.  F.  [L],  180-186, 

189,  317. 
Bennett,  Hon.  Thomas  [^asierrt],206-207. 
Blair,  Hon.  A.  J.  Fergusson  \_Brock'],  11, 

300. 


Blake,  Hon.  Oliver  \_Thames\,  325-826. 

BossiS,  Hon.  J.  N.  [Z>e  La  Durantayp'\,'i^^?>. 

BouLTON,  Hon.  George  S.  [L].  152-154, 
156, 

Bureau,  Hon.  J.  O.  [Z'e  Lorimier'],  189- 
193,  309-310,  327,  345. 

Campbell,  Hon.  A.,  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands  ICataraqui'],  20-24,  45,  156,  159, 
160,  161,  175,  178,  202,  223,  272,  281, 
290-298,  303,  340,  341,  342,  512. 

Christie,  Hon.  David  {Erie-],  212-222, 
224,  277,  279. 

CuBRiE,  Hon.  James  Q-.  [^Niagara'],  45-53, 


417519 


IV 


208-209,  210-212,  218,  269-284,  340, 

341,  342,  512. 
De  Beaujeu,  Hon.  George  S.  [L],  205, 

322-324. 
Dickson,  Hon.  Walter  H.  [L],  284-290, 

327. 
Ferrier,  Hod.  James  [L],  193-198,  233, 

276. 
Flint,  Hon.  Billa  [TrrnQ,  318-322. 
Gu^VREMONT,  Hon.  J.  ]}.  [Saurel^,  313. 
Hamilton,  Hon.  John  llnkerman'\,  324- 

325. 
Letellier  de  St.  Just,  Hon.  L.  \_Grmid- 

ville},  12,  13,  186-189. 
Macpherson,  Hon.  David  L.  {Savf/eeii'], 

125,  149-152,  200,  201,  204,  283. 
^IcCrea,   Hon.  W^alter  [Western'],  16 T- 

173,  277,  279. 
McM aster,    Hon.    William    IMidhnd], 

229-231. 
WooRE^HoD.  Philip  H.  [L],  83, 160, 162, 

225-229. 
Olivier,    Hon.  L.   A.   \_De   LaiiauJibre'], 

173-180,  189,  310-316. 


Price,  Hon.  David  E.  [Laurcntides'],  338- 

339. 
Read,  Hon.  Rohert  [Quinte],  326-327. 
Reesou,  Hon.  Davju  [Kin^/s'],  158,  161, 

162, 163-167, 327, 32:^-333, 339-340. 
Ross,  Hon.  John   [L],  71-80,  160,  213, 

270,  271,  280,  300-301,  327. 
Ryan,  Hon.  Thomas  IVictorial,  333-338, 

340. 
Sanborn,  Hon.  John  S.  [  UV///»(//(9»],  118 

-125,  222-225,  24^-245. 
Seymour,  Hon.  Benjamin  [L],  199-206, 

298-300. 
Simpson,  Hon.  John  [Queen's],  160,  231- 

234. 
Skead,  Hon.  James  [Rideau],  242-244. 
Speaker,    The  —  Hon.    U.    J.    Tessier, 

[Gulj],  208,317,318,  328,  42i. 
TACUt,  Hon.  Col.  Sir  E.  P.,  R.ceiver  Gene- 
ral and    Minister  of   Militia  [L],    1-11, 

76,  83,    175,    177,  210,    211,   234-242, 

333,  342-346. 
Vidal,  Hon.   A.  [St.  Clair],  82-83,  301- 

309,  346. 


LEGISLATIVE     ASSEIklBLY 


PROCEEDINGS. 


February  3. — Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  Macdonald 
moved  that  au  Address  be  presented  to 
Her  Ma.jesty,  praying  that  a  measure 
be  Hubmitted  to  Imperial  Parliament, 
based  on  certain  resolutions,  18.  Hon. 
Mr.  HoLTON  objected  that  the  motion 
was  not  in  order,  inasmuch  as  the  Address 
should  be  fouudcd  on  Resolutions  origia- 
ated  in  Committee  of  the  Whole,  18.  The 
Speaker  ruled  that  the  motion  was  in 
order,  19. 

March  7. — Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  Macdonald 
moved  the  previous  question,  703.  Hon. 
Ally.  Gen.  Cartier  having  moved  the 
adjournment  of  the  debate  till  the  first 
eittiug  of  the  House,  to-morrow,  after 
routine  business,  Hon.  Mr.  Holton 
moved  in  amendment  that  the  debate  bo 
adjourned  till  the  13th  instant,  and  that 
an  Address  be  presented  to  the  (lovcnior 
(Jcncral,  praying  him  to  cause  to  be  laid 
before  the  House,  in  the  meantime,  various 
information  relating  to  the  subjects  em- 
braced in  the  resolutions,  767.  Objceticm 
being  t.iken,  the  Speakeii  ruled  the 
amendment  out  or  order,  768.  The 
Sj'EAKEr's  dpcision  appealed  from,  76S. 


Sustained  on  a  division  of  59  to  20.   Hon. 
Mr.   Dorion   moved   in  amendment  that 
the   debate  be  mljourned    for  one  nnnth, 
or  until  such  time  as  the    people  of  .the 
Province  should    have  an  opportunity  of 
constitutionally  pronouncing  their  opinion, 
769.  Objection  being  taken,  the  Speaker 
ruled  the   amendment  out  of  order,   770. 
Hon.  Mr.  C.\RTIER*s  motion  agreed  to,  770. 
March  10. — Objection  having  been  taken  by 
Hon.  Mr.  Holton,  the   Speaker   rule<l 
that    the  motion  for  the  "  previous  (|ues- 
tion"    was   in  order,    893.       The    Hdusc 
divided  on  the  motion  for  the  "  previous 
question,"  962.   Agreed   to  by  85   to  39. 
The  House  divided  on  the  main  ntotion.of 
the   Hon.  Atty.  Gen.   Ma("!<on.\H).  962. 
Agreed  to  by  91  to  33. 
March  13. — Hon.   Atty.    Gen.    MAntoN.M.D 
moved  that   a  ComiLittee  bi>  appointed  to 
'       draft  an  address  founded  on  the  resolutions. 
j      9()2.       Hon   J.  11.    Cam  IRON   moved    in 
1       amendment  an  Address   to  the  tJovernor 
i       (jeneral,  for  an   appeal   to   the  people  be- 
fore the  resolutions  should   be  submitted 
I       to  the  Imperial  Parliament  for  their   final 
action,  96J,     ()bjeetion  being    taken,  tho 


Speaker  ruled  the  amendmdat  to  be  in 
order,  963.  House  divided  on  Mr.  Ca- 
meron's amendment,  1020.  Negatived  by 
84  to  35  Hon.  Mr,  Holton  moved  an 
amendment,  that  the  measure  should  not 
go  into  operation,  until  approved  by  the 
Parliament  of  Canada,  after  the  next  gen- 
eral election,  1021.  House  divided  on 
said  amendment,  1025.  Negatived  by 
79  to  31.  Hon.  Joii.v  Sandfield  Mac- 
BONALD  7noved  an  amendment  with  refer- 
ence to  the  subject  of  Education  in  Upper 
Canada,  1025.  House  divided  on  said 
amendment,  1026.  Negatived  by  95  to  8. 
Mr.  Bourassa  moved  an  amendment  that 


Alleyn,   Hon.  Ciias.  IQucLec  WesQ,  641, 

642,  669-673. 
Archambeault,  Mr.   Louis    [L'Assomp- 

11011],  544-545. 
Beaubien,  Dr.  J.  0.  [Montmagi'i/'j,   351, 

550-551. 
Bellerose,  Mr.  J.  H.  iLaval],  476-482. 
BiGGAR,  Mr.  James  L.  lEast  Norfhianher- 

lanc^],  882-884. 
BiiANCHRT,  Dr.  Joseph  G.  [Levis'],  545- 

550. 
BouRASf"A,    Mr.    FRANgois    {St.   Johis], 

1026. 
Bowman.  Mr.  T.  E.  [North  Waterloo],  803- 

>0b. 
Brown,    lion.  Ueorge,    President   of  the 

Council     \_Soath    Oxford],    14,    84-115, 

412,  450,  474,  476,"  663,  661,  709-710, 

711,  739.  752,  753,  754,  757,  758,  989- 

995. 
BURWELL,  Mr.  L.  [East  Elqin],  417-448. 
Cameron,  Hon.  J.  H.  [Pee/],  14,  662,  716, 

962-975,905,  1006. 
Cameron,  Mr.  M.  C.  [North  Ontario],  448- 

463,  645,  681,  716-719,  714-747,  770, 

975-986. 
Caiit[ER,  Hon.  Gr.  E.,  Attorney  General  East 

[Montreal   East].    19,    53-62,   407,   408, 

111,  412,  452,  5J0,  540,  571,  576,  642, 

692,  713-715,  731,  770,  841.  932,  945, 
1022. 
Cartwrigiit,    Mr.    B.     J.    [Lennox    and 

Addinafon],  820-825. 
Cauciion,    Hon,    J.    [Movtmorcnci/],     15, 

371,  393,  554-584,  695-702,  778. 
Chambers,  Mr.  F.   II.   [BrockviUe],  770- 

775 
Cockburn,  Hon.  James,  Solicitor  General 

West  [  West  Northumberland],  810. 
Cornellier  dit  Grandchamp^  Sir.  Hip- 

POLYTE  [Jolietfe],  349. 


Koman  Catholic  minority  of  Upper  Canada 
be  placed  on  same  footing  as  Protestant 
minority  of  Lower  Canada,  1023.  House 
divided  on  said  amendment,  1027.  Negi- 
tived  by  85  to  20.  Main  motion  agreed 
to  on  a  division  and  Committee  appointed, 
1026.  Draft  Address,  reporte.i,  1027. 
Agreed  to  and  ordered  to  be  engrossed, 
1032.  Ordered  that  an  Address  be  pre- 
sented to  the  Governor  General  by  the 
whole  House,  requesting  him  to  transmit 
said  Address  to  Her  Majesty,  1032. 
31arch  14. — The  House  waited  on  Ilis 
E.Kcellency  with  their  Address  to  Her 
Majesty.    His  Excellency's  reply,  1032. 


Cowan,  Mr.  James  [South  Waterloo],  742, 

957-958. 
Denis,  Mr.  Paul  [Beauharnois],  644,  871- 

880,  986. 
DENiVEaviLLB,  Mr.  C.  B.   [Three  Rivers], 

947-952. 
DoRiON,    Hon.    A.    A.     [Ilochdaga:],      15, 

245-269,  378,  379  570,  571,  584,  654- 

657,  664,  682-695,  731-731,  767,  769, 

944-917,986,1021. 
DoRION,  Mr.    J.    B.    E.    [Drummond    and 

Arthabaska],  856-871,  929,  987. 
DuFRESNE,  Mr.   Joseph  [Montcalm],  554, 

608,  922-931,  1017. 
DuNKiN,  Mr.  Christopher,  [Urome],  19, 

482-512,  512-544. 
EvANTi,REL,     Hon.     Francois,     [Quebec 

Counti/],  569,  576,  711-713,  913. 
Ferguson,  Mr.  Thos.  R.  [South  Sinicoe], 

958-961,  1013-1015. 
FoRTiER,  Mr.  MoiSE  [Yamaska],  941-943. 
'  Gagnon,   Mr.  A.  [Charlevoix],  952-953. 
Galt,   Plon.    A.   T.,   Minister    of  l^inancc, 

[Sherbrooke],  19,  62-71,  661,  662,  947. 
Geoffrion,  Mr.  F^lix  [Vercheres],  389, 

390,  580,  775-783. 
GiBBS,  Mr.   Thomas  N.  [South  Ontario], 

668,  810-814,  987-988. 
Harwoo©,  Mr.  A.  Charti^r  de  Lotbin- 

iere[  Vaudreuil],  825-841. 
Haultain,     Col.    Fhederick  W.  [Peter- 
borough], 627-648. 
Holton,  Hon.    L.  H.  [Chatcauguoy],  14, 

17,  18,  147-148,  394,  408,  411,  419,  440, 

475,  660,  661,  664,  704-709,  725,  730- 

731,  767,  768,  893,  937-9  11,  994,  996- 

997,  1008,  1021. 
Howland,     Hon.     W.     P.    [West     York], 

766. 
Huntington,  Hon.  Lucius  S.  [She^ord]^ 

953-957,  1015-1017. 


VI 


Jackson,  Mr.   George  [_Grei/'\,  884-889, 

988. 
JOLY,    Mr.    II.    G.    ILolhinrere'],    346-362, 

384,  392,  393,  679,  998-1000. 
Jones,  Mr.  D.  F.  [South  Leech],  814-820. 
Laframboise,    lion.    Mauhice,    [Bar/Ot], 

742-744,  841-856. 
Langevin,   Hon.  II.  L.,  Solicitor  General 

East   [Dorchester],   362-392,   579,   691, 

781. 
Macdonald,  Hon.  J.  A.,  Attorney  General 

West,  [Khu/ston],  13,  14,  16,  18,  25-45, 

648-650,  658,  665,  703,  705,  725-730, 

944,  962, 1000-1007,  1027,  1031. 
Macdonald,   Mr.  John,   [Toronto  West], 

760-765,  766. 
Macdon^\ld,  Hon.  J.  Sandfield  [Corn- 

7vall],  13,  251,  420,  421,  642,  650-654, 

662,  663,  666,  667,  720-725,  734-742, 

1008-1013,  1025. 
MacFarlane,  Mr.  Robert  [/V/7i],  1022- 

1.24. 
Mackenzie,  Mr.  A.,[Lainhton],  421-134, 

738,  767,  1009,  1017-1018,  1025. 
Mackenzie,  Mr.  Hope  ¥.  [North  Oxford], 

673-681,  1009. 
Magill,  Mr.  CiiAS.  [Hamilton],  997-998. 
McConkey,   Mr.    T.    D.   [North   Simcoe], 

889-893. 
McDoLGALL,    Hon.   William,    Provineial 

Secretarv    [North    LanarJc],    492,     538, 

719-720"',  985. 
McGee,  Hon.  T.  D'Arcy,  Minister  of  Agri- 
culture  [Montreal   West],    125-146,  643, 

653,  669. 
McGiVERiN,  Mr.  W.  [Lincoln],  404-475. 
McKellar,  Mr.  Archibald  [Kent],  765- 

766. 
Morris,  Mr.  Alexander,  [Soiith  Lanark], 

431-446. 


O'Halloran,    Mr.    James    [Missisquoi], 

792-799. 
Paquet,  Dr.  A.  H.  [Berfhier],  789-792. 
Parker,  Dr.   T.    S.    [North    Weltinjton], 

668,936-937,  1018-1020. 
Perrault,   Mr.   Josepu    F.    [Richelieu], 

559,  585-626,  926. 
Pouliot,  Mr.   J.  B.  [Temiscouala],  880- 

88'' 
Powell,  Mr.  W.  F.  [Carle'on],  715-716. 
Rankin,  Col.  Arthur  [Essex],  657,  912- 

922. 
RtMlLLARD,  Mr.   Edouard   [Bellechatse], 

783-789. 
Rose,  Hon.  John  [Montreal  Centre],  394- 

419. 
Ross,  Mr.  John  J.  [C'haviplnin],  882. 
Ross,  Mr.  John  S.  [Dandas],  799-803. 
Rymal,    Mr.  Joseph   [South  Wentworth], 

932-936,  993, 1020. 
Scatcherd,  Mr.  Tiios    [West  Middlesex], 

747-760. 
Scoble,  Mr.  John  [  West.  El'jin],  852,  906- 

912. 
Shanly,  Mr.  Walter    [South   Grenville] 

899-906. 
Smith,    Mr.     Alexander     M.    [Toronto 

East],  897-899 
Speaker,  The  Hon.  Lewis  Wallbridge 

[South  Hastings],  19,  559,  664,  703,  768, 

770,  893,  963,  1032. 

StIRTON,  Mr.DAVID[>S'oHM  Wellinytou],~i?>^. 
Taschere.\u,  -Mr.  Henri  E  [iSeaHce],  893- 

897. 
Wallbridge,  Mr.  T.  C.  [North  Hastings], 

419,  657-660,  672. 
Walsh,  Mr.  Aquila  [Norfolk:],  805-810. 
Webb,  Mr.  William  H.  [Richmond  and 
Wolfed],  931-932. 


Vll 


THE  LEGISLATURE  OF  CANADA, 

3rd  Session,  8th  Parliament, 
1865, 


GOVERNOR  GENERAL. 

His  Excellency  The  Right  Honorable  Charles  Stanley,  Viscount  Monck,  Baron 
MoNCK  of  Ballytrainmon,  in  the  County  of  "Wexford,  Governor  General  of  British 
North  America,  and  Captain  General  and  Governor  in  Chief  in  and  over  the 
Provinces  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunsicick,  and  the  Island  of  Prince 
Edward,  and  Vice    Admiral  of  the  same,  tDc,  &c.,  dx. 


Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 
Hon. 


THE  MINISTRY. 

Sir  Etienne  Pascal  Tachi6,  Receiver  General,  Minister  of  Militia,  and  Premier. 

John  Alexander  Macdonald,  Attorney  General  \Yest. 

George  Etienne  Cartier,  Attorney  General  East. 

Alexander  Tilloch  Galt,  Minister  of  Finance. 

Alexander  Campbell,  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands. 

Thomas  D'Arcy  McGee,  Minister  of  Agriculture  and  Statistics. 

Jean  Charles  Chapais,  Commissioner  of  Public  Worhs.   » 

George  Brown,  President  Executive  Council. 

William  JMcDougall,  Provincial  Secretary. 

William  Pearce  Howland,  Postmaster  General. 

Hector  Louis  Langevin,  Solicitor  General  East. 

James  Cockburn,  Solicitor  General  West. 


LEGISLATIVE  COUNCIL. 
The  Honorable  Ulric  J.  Tessier,  Speaher. 


LIFE    members. 

Residences. 

Names  of  Members. 

Residences. 

Kingston Hon 

.  Jolin  Hamilton. 

Coteaudu  Lac  .B.0 

PhiLipsburg   .    " 

Philip  H.   Moore. 

Toronto " 

London,  C.  W   " 

George  J.   Goodhue. 

Hamilton  ...      " 

Brockville  ...    " 

James  Morris. 

Quebec '' 

Toronto  " 

James  Gordon. 

Quebec " 

Montreal " 

James  Ferrier. 

Montreal " 

Perth ''• 

Roderick  Matheson. 

Port  Hope  ...    " 

Cobourg " 

George  S.  Boulton. 

Sorel " 

Montmagny . .    " 

Sir  Elienne  P.  Tach6. 

Cobourg " 

Montreal  ....    " 

James  Leslie. 

Niagara " 

Montreal " 

Frederick  A.  Quesnel. 

Names  of  Members. 

. Hou-  George  Saveuse  de  Beaujeu. 
John  Ross. 
Samuel  Mills. 
Louis  Panel. 
Sir  Narcisse  F.  Belleau. 
Charles  Wilson. 
Benjamin  Seymour. 
David  M.  Armstrong. 
Ebenezer  Perry. 
Walter  H.  Dickson. 


elected  members. 

Electoral  Divisions.  Names  of  Members.  Electoral  Divisions. 


Alma Hon. 

Bathurst <' 

Bedford " 

Brock '' 

Burlington " 

Cataraqui '' 

De  La  Durantaye  " 

De  Lanaudiere. ..  '^ 


Joseph  F,  Armand. 
James  Shaw. 
A.  B.  Foster. 
A.  J.  Fergusson  Blair. 
Harcourt  Burland  Bull. 
Alexander  Campbell. 
Joseph  Noel  Boss6. 
L.  A.  Olivier. 


De  Lormier Hon, 

De  Le  Valliere. . .  " 

De  Salaberry ....  " 

!  Eastern " 

Ene " 

Gore '•' 

Grandville " 

Gulf " 


Names  of  Members. 

J.  0.  Bureau. 
J.-Bte.  G.  Proulx. 
Louis  Renaud. 
Thomas  Bennett. 
David  Christie. 
George  Alexander. 
Luc  Letellier  de  St.  Just. 
Ulric  Joseph  Tessier. 


Vlll 


LEGISLATIVE  COVNCIL.—  Conchuhd. 


ELECTED    MEMBERS. 


Electoral  Divisions. 

Home Hon 

Jnkerman " 

Kennebec " 

King's " 

La  Salle         .....  " 

Laurentides " 

Laiizon " 

Malahidc " 

Midland..   " 

Millelsles " 

Montarville ". 

Neti'castle  " 

Niagara " 

Queen's " 

Quinte <' 

iiepentigny " 


Names  of  Members. 

James  C.  Aikins. 
John  Hamilton. 
Charles  Cormier. 
David  Reesor. 
Antoine  J.  Duchesnay. 
David  Edward  Price. 
Elz6arH.  J.  Duchesnay 
E.  Leonard. 
Wm.  McMaster. 
L6andre  Dumouchel. 
Louis  Lacoste. 
Asa  A.  liurnham. 
James  George  Currie. 
John  Simpson. 
Robert  Read. 
P.  Urjjel  Archambault. 


Electoral  Divisions. 

Rideau Hon. 

Rigaud  " 

Rougemont " 

Saugeen " 

Saurel " 

Shawenegan " 

Stadacona " 

St.  Clair " 

iS7.  Laivrence " 

Tecumsetk " 

Thames " 

Trent " 

Victoria '* 

Wellington " 

Western " 

York " 


Names  of  Members. 

James  Skead. 
Eust.  Prud'homme,  Jr. 
William  Henry  Chaffers 
David  L.  Macpherson. 
Jean  Bte.  Gu6vremont. 
Charles  Malhiot. 
Jean  Elie  Gin[»ra3. 
Ale.xander  Vidal. 
George  Crawfoi-d. 
Donald  McDonald. 
Oliver  Blake. 
Billa  Flint. 
Thomas  Ryan. 
John  Sewell  Sanborn. 
Walter  McCrea. 
George  William  Allan. 


LEGISLATIVE  ASSEMBLY. 
The  Honorable  Lewis  Wallbridge,  Speaher. 


MEMBERS. 


Constituencies.  Names  of  Members. 

Argenteuit Hon.  John  J.  C.Abbott. 

Bdgot    Hon.  M.  Lafraniboise. 

Beauce Henri  E.  Taschereau. 

Jieauharnois    Paul  Denis. 

liellechasse -.  .  .  .Edouard  R^millard. 

Berthier Anselme  H.  Paquet. 

Bonaventure Theodore  Robitaille. 

Brant  (East  Riding).  John  Young  Down. 
Brant  (  West  Riding). .  .Edmund  Burke  Wood. 

Brockville  {Toton.) Fitzwm.  H.  Chambers. 

Brome Chri-stopher  Dunkin. 

Curleton William  Fred.  Powell. 

„,       . ,  i  Charles     Boucher     do 

Ghamhly j      Boucherviile. 

Ckavvplain John  Jones  Ross. 

C'harlevoi.v. Adoljihe  Gugnon. 

Chateau giiay Hon.  LutliorH.  Hulton. 

Chicouthni  ^-  SaguenayVmrie  A.  Trcmblay. 

Conijjtun John  Henry  Pope. 

Cornwall  (Town) Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald. 

Dorchester Hon.  H.  L.  Langevin. 

Drum'd  iSf  Artkabasku .Jean  Bte.  EricDorion. 

Dundai John  Sylvester  Roks 

Ditrltnm  (  East  Riding)John  J-  hutcr  Smith 
Durhani  (West  Ridi7ig)\li;ury  Munro. 
infill  (East  /^'r/Zn,'/.).  .  Lconidas  Burwell. 
lU^^in  (West  Riding.) .  .AuUu  Scobli<. 

Esftci' Arthur  Rankin. 

FruntendC William  Ferguson. 

(iiispc .lolin  liC  Boulillior. 

iHeusnirnj Doniild  A.  Macdonald. 

iirenrille(Soulli  Riding)\\ n\Uv  Shanly. 

drey (ieorge  JackKon. 

Haldimand  David  Thompson. 


Consiitucncies.  Names  of  Members. 

Halton John  White. 

Hamilton  (City.) Charles  Magill. 

Hastings  (North  Riding)Thon\ii3  C.  Wallbridge. 

Hastings  [South  Riding}E.oa.  Lewis  Wallbridge. 

Hochelaga .Hon.  Antoine  .\.Dorion. 

Huntingdon Robert  B.  Somervillc. 

Huron  and  Bruce James  Dickson. 

Iberville .\le.\andre  Dufresne. 

Jacques  Cartier (iuillaume  (J.  (Jaucher, 

Joliettc Hip.C.  dit  Grandchamp. 

Kamouraska Hon.  Jean  C.  Chapais. 

Kent Archibald  McKellar. 

Kingston Hon.  J.  A.  Macdonald. 

Lambton Alexander  ^^ackenzie. 

Lanark  (North  Riding)Hou.  Win.  Mcl^ouL^ali. 

Lanark  (South  y^"(/i'?i^.).\lo.\andor  .Morris. 

Laprairic AltVcd  Pinsonneault, 

L'Assoniptioii liinii.-?  .■Xiclmmbeault, 

Lariil loseph  H.  Iklleroso. 

Leeds  and  (ireenville  )  ,1        •    t^  „ 
.»-    ..    ,,...       .         >  I'rancis  Jones. 
(North  Riding.).  . .  ) 

Leeds  (South  Riding  ).  .David  Ford  Jones. 

Lennox  and  /l</</i»o'<on.  Richard  J.  Cartwrighf. 

Lins Jort.  (Jodcric  Blanchet. 

Lincoln. William  McGivcrin. 

L' Islet Louis  B.  Caron. 

London  (City.) Hon.  John  Carling. 

Lotbiniirc Henri  (lustave  Joly. 

Maslcijionge MoVso  Houde. 

Megantic George  Irvine. 

Middlrse.r  (E.  Hiding.)Crov.\A\  Wiliiun. 

Miitdlese.r  (H'.  l{iding.)'l'\\oiiu\^  Scaliherd. 

Missisi/uoi Juuies  G'Halloraii. 

Montcalm Joseph  Dufresnc 


IX 


LEGISLATIVE  ASSEMBLY— Concluded. 


Constituencies.  Names  of  Members. 

Montmagny Jos.  Octave  Beaubien. 

Montmorency .Hon.  Joseph  Cauchon. 

Montreal  {City)  Centre. 'Ron.  John  Rose. 

'<  <'         £7asi..Hon.  Geo.  E.  Cartier. 

"  '<         West  .  .Hon.  T.  D'Arcy  McGee. 

Napierville S.  Coupal  dit  La  Reine. 

Niagara  {Town.) Angus  Morrison. 

Hicolet Joseph  Gaudet 

Norfolk Aquila  Walsh. 

^^'^Z'y^^.  ..^^-  \  '''^'' '-''"  ^''''''' 

Northumberland    ( W^.  j  3      j^^^^  Cockburn. 

Kiamg.) ) 

Ontario  {North  Riding) .  Matthew  C.  Cameron. 
Ontario  (South  Riding).Thos.  Nicholson  Gibbs. 

Ottawa  {City) Joseph  Merrill  Currier. 

Ottawa  {County) Alonzo  Wright. 

Oaf  or  d  {North  Riding). B.o])e  F,  McKenzie, 
Oxford  (South  Riding). Ron.  George  Brown- 

Peel  Hon.  John  H.  Cameron. 

Perth  .  .  ■ Robert  Macfarlane. 

Peterborough Fred.  Wm.  Haultain. 

Pontiac    John  Poupore, 

Portneuf Jean  Docile  Brousseau. 

Prescott Thomas  Higginsou. 

Prince  Edward Walter  Ross. 

Quebec  {City)  East Pierre  Gabriel  Huot. 

'<  "       Centre  .  .Hon.  I.  Thibaudeau. 

"  "        West Hon.  Charles  Alleyn. 

Quebec  { County) Hon.  F.  Evanturel. 

Renfrew Robert  Maclntyre. 

Richmond  and  Wolfe. .  .William  Hoste  Webb 

Richelieu Joseph  F.  Perrault. 

Rimouski George  Sylvain, 


Constituencies-  Name»  of  Members. 

Rouville Joseph  N.  Poulin. 

Russell Robert  Bell. 

St.  Hyacinthe R^mi  Raymond. 

St.  Johns Fran9ois  Bourassa. 

St.  Maurice Charles  Lajoie, 

Shefford Hon.  L.  S.  Huntington. 

Sherbrooke  {Town) Hon  Alex.  T.  Gait. 

Simcoe  {North  Riding) .Thomas  D.  McConkey. 
Sivicoe  {South  Riding). Thomas  R.  Ferguson. 

Soulanges William  Duckett. 

Stanstead Albert  Knight. 

Stormont Samuel  Ault. 

Temiscouat  a Jean  Baptiste  Pouliot. 

Terrebonne Louis  Labreche-Viger. 

Three  Rivers  {City) Chas.  B.  De  Niverville. 

Toronto  {City)  East Alex.  Mortimer  Smith. 

"  "       West John  Macdonald. 

Thvo  Mountains Jean  Baptiste  Daoust. 

Tr     J       -I  <  Antoine     Chartier    de 

Vaudreml |      Lotbiniere  Harwood. 

Vercheres F^lix  Geoffrion. 

Victoria  James  Wicks  Dunsford 

Waterloo  {N.  Riding) . .  Isaac  Erb  Bowman. 
Waterloo  {S.  Riding).. James  Cowan. 

Welland Thomas  Clark  Street. 

Wellington  {N.  Riding)Thomas  S.  Parker. 
Wellington  {S.  Riding). David.  Stirton. 
Wenttvorth  {N.  Riding). WiWiam  Notman. 
Wentworth  {S.  Riding). SosQ^h  Rymal. 

Yamaska Mo'ise  Fortier- 

York  {East  Riding)  . .  .Amos  Wright. 

York  {North  Riding)..  .James  Pearson  Wella. 

York  (  West  Riding) . . .  .Hon.  Wm.  P.  Howlaud. 


PARLIAMENTARY  DEBATES 

ON  THE 

SUBJECT   OF  THt:  CONFEDERATION^   OF  THE   BRITISH 
NORTH  AMERICAN  PROVINCES. 


Third  Session^  Eighth  Provincial  Parliament  of  Canada^  in  the 
Twenty-eighth  year  of  the  Reign  of  Her  Majesty  Queen 
Victoria. 


LEGISLATIVE      COUNCIL, 


an 


Friday,  February  3,  1865. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACH^  moved,  ''  That 
humble  Address  be  presented  to  Her 
Majesty,  praying  that  She  may  be  graciously 
pleased  to  cause  a  measure  to  be  submitted  to 
the  Imperial  Parliament  for  the  purpose  of 
uniting  the  Colonies  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia, 
New  Brunswick,  Newfoundland,  and  Prince 
Edward  Island,  in  one  Government,  with  pro- 
visions based  on  the  following  Resolutions, 
which  were  adopted  at  a  Conference  of  Dele- 
gates from  the  said  Colonies,  held  at  the  city 
of  Quebec,  on  the  10th  of  October,  1864 :" 

1.  The  liest  interests  and  present  and  future 
prosjDeritj  of  British  North  America  will  be  pro- 
moted by  a  Federal  Union  under  the  Crown  of 
Great  Britain,  provided  such  Union  can  be  effect- 
ed on  principles  just  to  the  several  Provinces. 

2.  In  the  Federation  of  the  British  North 
Araerican  Provinces,  the  sj'stem  of  Government 
best  adapted  under  existing  circumstances  to  pro- 
tect the  diversified  interest  of  the  several  Pro- 
\'inces,  and  secure  efficiency,  harmony  and  per- 
manency in  the  working  of  the  Union,  would  be 
a  General  Government,  charged  with  matters  of 
common  interest  to  the  whole  country  j  and 
Local  Governments  for  each  of  the  Canadas,  and 
for  the  Provinces  of  Nova  Scotia,  New  Bruns- 
wick and  Prince  Edward  Island,  charged  with  the 
control  of  local  matters  in  their  respective  sec- 
tions. Provision  being  made  for  the  admission 
into  the  Union,  on  equitable  terms,  of  Nevpfound- 
land,  the  North-West  Territory,  British  Columbia 
and  Vancouver. 

3.  In  framing  a  Constitution  for  the  General 
Government,  the  Conference,  with  a  view  to  the 
perpetuation  of  our  connection  with  the  Mother 

2 


Country,  and  the  promotion  of  the  best  interests 
of  the  people  of  these  Provinces,  desire  to  follow 
the  model  of  the  British  Constitution,  so  far  as 
our  circumstances  will  permit. 

4.  The  Executive  Authority  or  Government 
.shall  be  vested  in  the  Sovereign  of  the  United 
Kingdom  of  Great  Britain  and  Ireland,  and  be 
administered  according  to  the  well-understood 
principles  of  the  British  Constitution,  by  the 
Sovereign  personally,  or  by  the  Representative  of 
the  Sovereign  duly  authorized. 

5.  The  Sovereign  or  Representative  of  the 
Sovereign  shall  be  Commander-in-Chief  of  the 
Land  and  Naval  Militia  Forces. 

6.  There  shall  be  a  General  Legislature  fjor 
Parliament  for  the  Federated  Provinces,  com- 
posed of  a  Legislative  Council  and  a  House  of 
Commons.  ) 

7.  For  the  purpose  of  forming  the  Legislative 
Council,  the  Feder.itcd  Provinces  shall  be  con- 
sidered as  consisting  of  three  divisions :  1st, 
Upper  Canada  ;  2nd,  Lower  Canada  j  3rd,  Nova 
Scotia,  New  Brunswick  and  Prmce  Edward 
Island;  each  division  with  an  equal  representa- 
tion in  the  Legislative  Council. 

8.  Upper  Canada  shall  be  represented  in  the 
Legislative  Council  by  24  Members,  Lower  Cana- 
da by  24  Members,  and  the  three  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces by  24  Members,  of  which  Nova  Scotia 
shall  have  iO,  New  Brunswick  10,  and  Prince 
Edward  Island  4  Members. 

9.  The  Colony  of  Newfoundland  shall  be  enti 
tied  to  enter  the  prop;)sed  Union,  with  a  repre 
sentation  in  the  Legislative  Council  of  4  Members. 

10.  The  North- West  Territory,  British  Colum- 
bia and  Vancouver  shall  be  admitted  into  the 
Union  on  such  terms  and  conditions  as  the  Par- 
liament of  the  Federated  Provinces  shall  deem 
equitable,  and  as  shall  receive  the  assent  of  Her 

:  Majesty  ;  and  in  the  case  of  the  Province  of  Bri- 
tish Columbia  or  Vancouver,  as  shall  be  agreed 
to  by  the  Legislature  of  such  Province. 

11.  The  Members  of  the  Legislatire  Council 


shall  be  appointed  by  the  Crown  under  the  Great 
Seal  of  the  Genera!  Government,  and  shall  hold 
oEBc'-'  during  life  :  if  any  Legislative  Councillor 
shiill,  for  two  con-secutive  sessions  of  Parliament, 
fail  to  give  his  attendance  in  the  said  Council,  his 
seat  shall  thereby  become  vacant. 

12.  Tb3  Members  of  the  Jjejislative  Council 
shall  be  British  subjects  by  birth  or  naturaliza- 
tion, of  the  fall  a^'e  of  thirty  years,  shall  possess 
a  continuous  real  property  qualification  of  four 
thousand  dollars  over  and  above  all  incumbrances, 
and  shall  be  and  continue  worth  that  sura  uver 
and  above  their  debts  and  liabilities,  but  in  the 
ca.se  of  Newfouudand  and  Prince  Edward  Island, 
the  property  may  be  either  real  or  personal. 

l;i.  If  any  question  shall  aise  as  to  the  quali- 
fication of  a  Legislative  Councillor,  the  same 
shall  be  determined  by  the  Council. 

14.  The  first  selection  of  the  Members  of  the 
Legislative  Council  shall  be  made,  except  as  re- 
gards Prince  Edward  Island,  from  the  Legislative 
Councils  of  th^  various  Provinces  so  far  as  a 
sufficient  number  be  found  qualified  and  willing 
to  serve ;  such  Members  shall  be  appointed  by 
the  Crown  at  the  recommendation  of  the  General 
Executive  Govcroment.  upon  the  nomination  of 
the  respective  Local  Governments,  and  in  such 
nomination  due  regard  shUl  be  had  to  the  claims 
of  the  Members  of  the  Lejrislative  Council  of  the 
opposition  in  each  Province,  so  that  all  political 
parties  may,  as  neai  ly  as  possible,  be  fairly  repre- 
sented. 

15.  The  Speaker  of  the  Legislative  Council 
(unless  otherwise  provided  by  Pai  liament),  shall 
be  apoointed  by  the  Crown  from  iimong  the  Mem- 
bers of  the  Legislative  Council,  and  sh;  11  hold 
office  during  pleasure,  and  shall  only  be  entitled 
to  (\  casting  vote  on  an  equality  of  votes. 

16.  Each  of  the  twenty-four  Legislative  Coun- 
cillors re[  resenting  Lower  Canada  m  the  Legis- 
lative Council  of  the  General  Legislature  shall  be 
appoitited  to  represent  one  of  the  twenty-four 
Electoral  1  ivisions  mentioned  in  Schedule  A  of 
Chapter  first  of  the  Consolidated  Statutes  of  Can- 
ada, and  such  Councillor  shall  reside  or  possess 
his  qualificalion  in  the  Division  he  is  appointed 
to  represent. 

17.  The  I)a3i8  of  Representation  in  the  House 
of  Commons  shall  be  Population,  as  determined 
by  the  Official  Census  every  Un  years  ;  and  the 
uamber  of  .Members  at  firiit, shall  be  194,  distiib- 
ted  as  follows : 

Upper  Canada 82 

Lower  Canada 65 

N  ova  Scotia 19 

New  Brunswick 15 

Newfou  ndland 8 

Prince  I'^dwanl  Islr.nd 6 

18.  Until  the  Official  Censu-  of  lb71  has  been 
made  up,  there  shall  be  no  ihange  in  the  number 
of  li<*pieseniittives  from  the  several  sections. 

ly.  Iiniuudiately  after  tliu  completion  of  the 
Census  of  1871,  and  iminediuloly  afier  every  de- 
cennial eoniius  ihoreafter,  th"  Keprcsentation  from 
aach  8ecti(  n  in  the  llou-te  of  Cummons  shall  bo 
rvadjusted  ou  the  buaib  of  Population. 


20.  For  the  purpose  of  such  readjustments. 
Lower  Canada  shall  always  be  assigned  sixty-fire 
Members,  and  each  of  the  other  sections  shall,  at 
each  readjustment,  receive,  for  the  ten  years 
then  I'ext  succeeding,  the  number  of  Members  to 
which  it  will  be  entitled  on  the  same  ratio  of 
Representation  to  Populatior  as  Lo  ^er  Canada 
wi'l  enjoy  according  to  the  Cen-sus  last  taken  by 
having  sixty-five  Members. 

21.  No  reduction  shall  be  made  in  the  number 
of  Members  returned  by  any  section,  unless  its 
pojiulation  shall  have  decreased,  relatively  to  the 
population  of  the  whole  Union,  to  the  extent  of 
five  per  centum. 

22.  In  computing  at  each  decennial  period  the 
number  of  Members  to  wh'ch  each  section  is  en- 
titled, no  fractional  parts  .shall  be  considered, 
unless  when  exceeding  one-half  the  number  en- 
titling to  a  Member,  in  which  case  a  Member 
shall  be  given  lor  each  such  fractional  part. 

23.  The  Legislature  of  each  Province  shall 
divide  such  Province  into  the  proper  number  of 
constituencies,  and  define  the  boundaries  of  each 
of  them. 

24-  The  Local  Legislature  of  each  Province 
may,  from  time  to  time,  alter  the  Electoral  Dis- 
tricts for  the  purposes  of  Representation  in  such 
Local  Legislature,  and  distribute  the  Represen- 
tatives to  which  the  Province  is  entitled  in  such 
Local  Legislature,  in  any  manner  such  Legisla- 
ture may  see  fit. 

25.  The  number  of  Members  may  at  any  time  be 
increased  by  the  General  Parliament, — regard  be- 
ing had  to  the  proportionate  riijhts  then  e.xisting. 

26.  Until  provisions  are  made  by  the  General 
Parliament,  all  the  laws  which,  at  that  date  of 
the  Proclamation  constituting  the  Union,  are  in 
force  in  the  Provinces  respectively,  relating  to 
the  qualification  and  disqualification  of  any  per- 
son to  be  elected,  or  to  sit  or  vote  as  a  Member 
of  the  Assembly  in  the  said  Provinces  respective- 
ly I  and  relating  to  the  qualification  or  disqualifi- 
cation of  voters  and  to  the  oaths  to  be  taken  by 
voters,  and  to  Returning  Officers  and  their  pow- 
eis  and  duties, — and  relating  to  the  proceedings 
at  Elections, — .nnd  to  the  period  during  wliich 
such  elections  may  be  continued  — and  relaiiug 
to  the  Trial  of  Controverted  Elections,  and  the 
proceedings  incident  thereto. — and  relating  to  the 
vacating  of  seats  of  Members,  imd  to  the  issuing 
and  execution  of  new  Writs,  in  case  of  any  seat 
being  vacated  otherwise  than  by  a  dissolution — 
shall  respectively  apply  to  elections  of  Members 
to  serve  in  the  House  of  Commons,  for  places 
situate  in  those  Provinces  respectively. 

27.  Every  House  of  Commons  shall  continue 
for  five  years  from  the  day  of  the  return  of  the 
writs  choosing  the  same,  and  no  longer ;  subject, 
nevertheless,  to  be  sooner  prorogued  or  dissolved 
by  the  Governor. 

28.  There  shall  be  a  Session  of  the  General 
Parliament  once,  at  least,  in  every  year,  so  that 
a  period  of  twelve  calendar  months  shall  not  in- 
tervene between  the  lust  sitting  of  the  General 
i'arliament  in  one  Ses.siou,  and  the  fiiat  sitting 
thereof  in  the  next  Seasion. 


* 


8 


29.  The  General  Parliament  shall  have  power 
to  make  Laws  for  the  peace,  welfare  and  good 
govarnment  of  the  Federated  Provinces  (saving 
the  yoverei?nty  of  England),  and  especially  laws 
respecting  the  following  subjects : — 

1 .  The  Public  Debt  and  Property. 

2.  The  regulation  of  Trade  and  Commerce. 

3.  The  imposition  or  regulation  of  Duties  of 

Customs  on  Imports  and  Exports, — 
except  on  Exports  of  Timber,  Logs, 
Masts,  Spars,  Deals  and  Sawn  Lum- 
ber from  New  Brunswick,  and  of  Coal 
and  other  minerals  from  Nova  Scotia. 

4.  The  imposition  or  regulation  of  Excise 

Duties. 
.5.  The  raising  of  money  by  all  or  any  other 
modes  or  systems  of  Taxation. 

6.  The  borrowing  of  money  on  the  Public 

Credit. 

7.  Postal  Service. 

8.  Lines  of  Steam  or  other  Ships,  Eailways, 

Canals  and  other  works,  connecting 
any  two  or  more  of  the  Provinces 
together,  or  extending  beyond  the 
limits  of  any  Province. 

9.  Lines  of  Steamships  between  the  Feder- 

ated Provinces  and  other  Countries. 
I  0.  Telegraph  Communication  and  the  Incor- 
poration of  Telei^raph  Companies. 

11.  All  such  works  as  shall,   although  lying 

wholly  within  any  Province,  be  spe- 
cially declared  by  the  Acts  authoriz- 
ing them  to  be  for  the  general  ad- 
vantage. 

12.  The  Census. 

13.  Militia — Military  and  Naval  Service  and 

Defence. 

14.  Beacons,  Buoys  and  Light  Houses. 

15.  Navigation  and  Shipping. 

16.  Quarantine. 

17.  Sea  Coast  and  Inland  Fisheries. 

18.  Ferries  between  any  Province  and  a  For- 

eign country,  or  between  any  two 
Provinces. 

19.  Currency  and  Coinage. 

20.  banking — Incorporation    of  Banks,    and 

the  issue  of  paper  money. 

21.  Savings  Banks. 

22.  Weights  and  Measures. 

23.  Bills  of  Exchange  and  Promissory  Notes. 

24.  Interest. 

25.  Legal  Tender. 

26.  Bankruptcy  and  Insolvency. 

27.  Patents  of  Invention  and  Discovery 

28.  Copy  Rights. 

29.  Indians  and  Lands  reserved  for  the   In- 

dians. 

30.  Naturalization  and  Aliens 

31.  Marriage  and  Divorce. 

32.  The  Criminal  Law.  excepting  the  Consti- 

tution of  Courts  of  Criminal  Jurisdic- 
tioH,  but  including  the  procedure  in 
Cri  ■  inal  matters. 

33.  Renderiiig  uniform  all  or  any  of  the  laws 

relative  to  property  and  civil  rightb 
in  Upper  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New 


Brunswick,  Newfoundland  and  Prince 
Edward  sland,  and  rendering  uniform 
the  procedure  of  all  or  any  of  the 
Courts  in  these  Provinces ;  but  any 
statute  for  this  purpose  shall  have 
no  force  or  authority  in  any  Province 
until  sanctioned  by  the  Legislature 
thereof 

34.  The  establishment  of  a  General  Court  of 

Appeal  for  the  Federtited  Provinces. 

35.  Immigration. 

36.  Agriculture. 

37.  And  generally  respecting'  all  matters  of 

a  general  character,  not  specially  and 
exclusively   reserved    for  the   Local 
Governments  and  Legislatures. 
30,  The  General  Government  and  Parliament 
shall  have  all  powers  necessary  or  proper  for  per- 
forming the   obligations  of  the  Federated  Prov- 
inces, as  part  of  the  British  Empire,  to  foreign 
countries  arising  under  Treaties  between  Great 
Britain  and  such  countries. 

32.  The  General  Parliament  may  also,  fiom 
time  to  time,  establish  additional  Courts,  and  the 
General  Government  may  appoint  Judges  and 
officers  thereof,  when  the  same  shall  appear  ne- 
cessary or  for  the  public  advantage,  in  order  to 
the  due  execution  of  the  laws  of  Parliament. 

82.  All  Courts,  Judges,  and  officers  of  the 
several  Provinces  shall  aid,  assist  and  obey  ttie 
General  Government  in  the  exercise  of  its  rights 
and  powers,  and  for  such  purposes  shall  be  held 
to  be  Courts,  Judges  and  officers  of  the  General 
Government. 

33.  The  General  Government  shall  appoint 
and  pay  the  Judges  of  the  Superior  Courts  in 
each  Province,  and  of  the  County  Courts  in  Up- 
per Canada,  and  Parlianieiit  shall  fix  theii-  salaries. 

."4.  Until  the  Consolidation  of  the  Laws  of 
Upper  Canada,  New  Brunswick,  Nova  Scotia, 
Newfoundland  and  Prince  Edward  Island,  the 
Jitdges  of  these  Provinces  appointed  by  the  Gen- 
eral Government,  shall  be  selected  from  their 
respective  Bars. 

.35.  The  Judges  of  the  Courts  of  Lower  Can- 
ada shall  be  selected  from  the  Bar  of  Lower 
Canada. 

36.  The  Judges  of  the  Court  of  Admiralty 
no^"  receiving  salaries  shall  be  paid  by  the  Gen- 
eral Government. 

37.  The  Judges  of  the  Superior  Courts  shall 
hold  their  offices  during  good  behaviour,  and  shall 
be  removable  only  on  the  Address  of  both  Houses 
of  Parliament. 

38.  For  each  of  the  Provinces  there  shall  be 
an  Executive  Ofi&cer,  styled  tie  Lieutenant  Gov- 
ernor, who  shall  be  appointed  bv  the  Governor 
General  in  Council,  under  the  Great  Seal  of  the 
Federated  Provinces,  during  pleasure :  such  pleas- 
uie  not  to  be  exercised  before  the  expiration  of 
the  first  five  years,  except  for  cause  :  such  cause 
to  be  communicated  in  writing  to  the  Lieutenant 
Governor  immediately  after  the  exercise  of  the 
pleasure  as  aforesaid,  and  also  by  Message  to 
both  Houses  of  Parliament,  within  the  first  week 
of  the  first  session  afterwards. 


4 


39.  The  Lientenant  Governor  of  each  Prov- 
ince shall  be  paid  by  the  General  Government. 

40.  In  on(^rtaking  to  pay  the  salaries  of  the 
Lieutenant  Governors,  the  Confererce  does  not 
desire  to  prejudice  the  claim  of  Prince  Edward 
Island  upon  the  Imperial  Government  fur  the 
amount  now  paid  for  the  salary  of  the  Lieutenant 
Governor  thereof. 

41.  The  Local  Government  and  Legislature  of 
each  Province  shall  l»e  constructed  in  such  man- 
ner as  the  existing  Legislature  of  each  such 
Province  shall  provide. 

42.  The  Local  Legislature  shall  have  power  to 
alter  or  amend  their  constitution  from  time  tv 
time. 

43.  The  Local  Legislatures  .shall  have  power 
to  make  laws  resf)ec(ing  the  following  subjects : 

1.  Direct  taxation,  and   in  New  Brunswick 

the  imposition  of  Duties  on  the  Ex- 
port of  Timber,  Logs.  Masts,  Spt»rs, 
Deals,  and  Sawn  Lumber ;  and  in 
Nova  Scotia,  of  Coals  and  other  min- 
erals. 

2.  Borrowing   money   on  the  credit  of  the 

Province. 

3.  The  establishment    and  tenure  of  local 

offices,  and  the  apf)ointmeut  and  pay- 
ment of  local  officers. 

4.  Agriculture. 

5.  Immigration. 

6.  Education  ;  saving  the  rights   and  privil- 

which  the  Protestunt  or  Catholic 
minority  in  both  Canadas  may  possess 
us  to  their  Denomiiuitional  Schools 
at  the  time  when  the  Union  goes  into 
operation. 

7.  The  sale  and  management  of  Public  Lands 

excepting  Lands  belonging  to  the 
General  Government. 

8.  Sea  Coast  and  Inland  Fisheries. 

9.  The     establishment,     maintenance     and 

maitagpment  of  Penitentiaries,  and 
Public  and  Refotnuitory  Prisons. 

10.  The  establishment,  maintenance  and 
management  of  riospital.s,  Asylums. 
Charities,  and  Eleemosynary  Institu- 
tions. 

11  .    Municipal  Institutions. 

12.  Shop,   Saloon,   Tavern,   Auctioneer  and 

other  Licenses. 

13.  Local  Works. 

14.  The    Incorpmration  of  Private   or  Local 

Companies,  except  such  as  relate  to 
matters  ussigned  to  the  General  Par- 
liament. 
l.^.  Property  and  Civil  Rights,  excepting 
those  portions  thereof  assi^'ned  to  the 
General  J*arlininf'!it. 

16.  Inflicting  |  unishmeiil  by  fine,    penalties, 

imprisonment  or  otherwise,  for  the 
breach  of  laws  puHseU  in  relation  to 
any  subject  within  their  jurisdiction, 

17.  The  Administration  of  Justici;,  including 

the  Constitution,  inaintonaiKvi  and 
organizutior  of  the  ('ourts,  —  both  of 
Cml  and  Cn'minal  ilunHdiction,  and 


including  also  thp  Procedure  in  Civil 
matters. 
Is.   And  generally  all  matters  of  a  private  or 
local  nature,  not  assigned  to  the  Gen- 
eral Parliament. 
"■  4  L  The  power  of  respiting,    reprieving,  and 
pardoning  Priioners  convicted  of  crimes,  and  of 
commuting  and  remitting  of  sentences  in  whole 
or  in  part,  which  belongs  of  right  to  the  Crown, 
shall  be  administered  by  the  Lieutenant  Governor 
of  each    Province    in    Council,    subject   to  any 
instructions  he  may,  from  time  to  time,   receive 
from  the   Gei:eial  Government,   and  subject  to 
any  provisions   that  may  be  made  in  this  behalf 
by  the  General  Parliament. 

45.  In  legurd  to  all  subjects  over  which  juris- 
diction belong-  to  both  the  (ieneral  and  Local 
J^egislatures,  the  laws  of  the  General  Parliament 
shall  control  and  supersede  those  made  by  the 
Local  Legislature,  and  the  latter  shall  be  void  so 
far  as  th«y  are  repugnant  to,  or  inconsistent  with, 
the  former. 

46.  Both  the  English  and  French  languages 
may  be  employed  in  the  General  Parliament  and 
in  its  proceedings,  and  in  the  Local  Legislature 
of  Lower  Canada,  and  also  in  the  Federal  Courts 
and  in  the  Courts  of  Lower  Canada. 

47.  No  lands  or  property  belonging  to  the 
General  or  Local  Governments  shall  be  liable  to 
tiixatiun. 

48.  All  Bills  for  appropriating  any  part  of  the 
Public  Revenue,  or  for  imposing  any  new  Tax  or 
Ini[)ost,  shall  originate  in  the  House  of  CommoiiR 
or  House  of  Assembly,  as  the  case  may  be. 

49.  The  Hous»  of  Commons  or  House  of 
Assembly  shall  not  originate  or  pass  any  Vote, 
Resolution,  Address  or  Bill  foi  the  aipropn'ation 
of  any  part  of  the  Public  Revenue,  or  of  any 
Tax  or  Impost  to  any  pur|>ose,  not  first  recom- 
mended by  Message  of  the  Governor  Genenil  cr 
the  Lieutenant  Governor,  as  the  case  may  be, 
during  the  Session  in  which  such  Vote,  Resolu- 
tion, Adtlress  or  Bill  is  passed. 

50.  Any  Bill  of  the  General  Parliament  may 
be  reserved  in  the  usual  manner  for  Her  Majesty's 
Assent,  and  any  Mill  of  the  Local  Legislatuies 
may,  in  like  manner,  be  re.served  for  the  con- 
sideration of  the  Governor  General. 

51.  Any  Rill  passed  by  the  General  Parliament 
shall  be  subject  to  disallowance  by  Her  Majesty 
within  two  years,  as  in  the  case  of  Bills  passed 
by  the  Legislatures  of  the  said  Provinces  hither- 
to; and,  in  like  manner,  any  Bill  pjissed  by  a 
Locil  Legislflture  shall  bo  .subject  to  disallowance 
by  the  (lovernor  General  within  one  year  after 
the  |)iussing  thereof. 

52.  The  Seat  of  Governxnent  of  the  Federated 
Provinces  shall  be  Ottaw.i,  .subject  to  the  Royal 
Prerogatisi;. 

;">.'{.  Subject  to  any  future  action  of  the  lespec- 
tive  Local  ( Jovernau'iits,  the  Seat  of  tho  Local 
Government  in  Upper  Canada  shall  be  'i'oronto; 
of  Lower  Canada,  Quebec;  and  the  Seats  of  the 
Local  Goveinnienl.s  in  the  other  Proviti.-es  shall 
be  lis  at  prujirnt. 

Stocks,  Caah,  Bankers'  Balance:*  an 


e  lis  at  pn 
64.  All  1 


$ 


Securities  for  money  belonging  to  each  Province 
at  the  time  of  the  Union,  except  as  hereinafter 
mentioned,  shall  belong  to  the  General  Govern- 
ment. 

55.  The  following  Public  Works  and  Property 
of  each  Province  shall  belong  to  the  General 
Government,  to  wit : — 

1.  Canals. 

2.  i'ublic  Harbours. 

3.  Light  Houses  and  Piers. 

4.  Steamboats,  Dredges  and  Public  Vessels. 

5.  River  and  Lake  Improvements. 

6.  Railway  and  Railway  Stocks,  Mortgages 

and  other  debts  due  by  Railway  Com- 
panies. 

7.  Military  Roads. 

8.  Custom  Houses,  Post  Offices  and  other 

Public  Buildings,  except  such  as  may 
be  set  aside  by  the  General  Govern- 
ment for  the  use  of  the  Local  Legis- 
latures and  Governments. 

9.  Property    transferred    by    the    Imperial 

Government  and  known  as  Ordnance 
Property. 

10.  Armories,  Drill  Sheds,  Military  Clothing 

and  -Munitions  of  War,  and 

1 1.  Lands  set  apart  for  public  purposes. 

56.  Ail  lands,  miues,  minerals  and  royalties 
vested  in  Her  Majesty  in  the  Provinces  of  Upper 
Canada,  Lower  Canada,  iS'ova  Scotia,  New 
Brunswick  and  Prince  Edward  Island,  for  the 
use  of  such  Provinces,  shall  belong  to  the  Local 
Government  of  the  territory  in  which  the  same 
are  so  situate ;  subject  to  any  trusts  that  may 
exist  in  respect  to  any  ot  such  lands  or  to  any 
interest  of  other  persons  in  repect  of  the  same. 

67.  All  sums  due  from  purchasers  or  lessees  of 
such  lands,  mines  or  minerals  at  the  time  of  the 
Union,  shall  also  belong  to  the  Local  Govern- 
ments. 

58.  All  assets  connected  with  such  portions 
of  the  public  debt  of  any  Province  as  are  as- 
sumed by  the  Local  Governments  shall  also 
belong  to  thos    Governments  resjjectively. 

59.  The  several  Provinces  shall  n^tain  all 
other  Public  Property  therein,  subject  to  the 
right  of  the  General  Govejnraent  to  aso^aiio  unv 
Lands  or  Public  Propeity  required  f>  r  Fertifica- 
tions  or  the  Defence  of  the  Country 

60.  The  General  Government  shall  assume  all 
the  Debts  aud  Liabiliiies  of  each  Province. 

61.  The  liebt  of  Canada,  not  specially  as- 
sumed by  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  respectively, 
shall  noi  exceed,  at  the  time  of  the  Union, 
$62,500,000  ;  Nova  Scotia  shall  enter  the  Union 
with  a  di^bt  not  excejding  $8,000,000  ;  aud  New 
Brunswick  with  -i  debt  not  exceediu.tc  $7,000,000. 

62.  In  case  Nova  Scotia  or  New  Lirunswick  do 
not  incur  liabilitit-s  beyond  those  for  which  their 
Governments  are  now  bound,  and  which  shall 
make  their  debts  at  the  date  of  Union  less  than 
«8,i'00,000  and  S7,00'J,000  respectively,  they 
shall  be  entitled  to  interest  at  five  per  cent,  on 
the  amount  not  so  incurred,  in  like  maimer  as  is 
hereinafter  provided  for  Newfoundland  and  Prince 
Edward  Island ;  the  foregoing  resolution  being 


in  no  respect  intended  to  limit  the  powers  given 
to  the  respective  Governments  of  those  Pro- 
vinces, by  Legislative  authority,  but  only  to  lire  it 
the  maximum  amount  of  charge  to  be  assumed 
by  the  General  Government ;  provided  always, 
that  the  powers  so  conferred  by  the  respective 
Legislatures  shall  be  exercised  within  five  years 
from  this  date,  or  the  same  shall  then  lapse. 

63.  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Edward  Island, 
not  having  incurred  Debts  equal  to  those  of  the 
other  Provinces,  shall  be  entitled  to  reoeive,  by 
half-yearly  payments,  in  advance,  from  the  Gen- 
eral Government,  the  Interest  at  five  per  cent,  on 
the  difference  between  the  actual  amount  of  their 
respective  Debts  at  the  time  of  the  Union,  and 
the  average  amount  of  indebtedness  per  head  of 
the  Population  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia  and 
New  Bruns'wick. 

64.  In  consideration  of  the  transfer  iv  the  Gen- 
eral Parli.nment  of  the  powers  of  Taxation,  an 
annual  grant  in  aid  of  each  Province  shall  be 
made,  equal  to  eighty  cents  per  head  of  the  pop- 
ulation, as  established  by  the  census  of  1861 ;  the 
population  of  Newfoundland  being  estimated  at 
130,000.  Such  aid  shall  be  in  full  settlement  of 
all  future  demands  upon  the  General  Government 
for  local  purposes,  and  shall  be  paid  h  Jf-yearly 
in  advance  to  each  Province. 

65.  The  position  of  New  Brunswick  b^ing  such 
as  to  entail  large  immediate  charges  upon  her 
local  rcTenues,  it  is  agreed  that  for  the  period  of 
ten  yeajs,  from  the  time  wh«u  the  Uni  m  takes 
effect,  an  additional  allowance  of  $63,000  per 
annum  shall  be  made  to  that  Province.  But  that 
so  long  as  the  liability  of  that  Province  remains 
under  $7,000,000,  a  deduction  equal  io  the  in- 
terest on  such  deficiency  shall  be  made  irom  the 
$6.3,000. 

6().  In  consideration  of  the  surrender  to  the 
General  Government  by  Newfoundland  of  ail  its 
rights  in  Mines  and  Minerals,  and  of  all  the  un- 
granted  and  unoccupied  Lands  of  the  f 'rown,  it 
is  agreed  that  the  sum  of  $150,000  shall  each 
vear  be  |>aid  to  that  Province,  by  semi-annual 
payments  ;  provided  that  that  Colony  shall  setain 
the  right  of  opening,  constructing  and  controlling 
Ruads  and  Bridges  through  anv  of  the  said  Lands 
suDject  to  any  Laws  which  the  General  Parlia- 
ment may  pass  in  respect  of  the  same. 

67  All  engagements  that  may  before  the  Un- 
ion be  entered  into  with  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment for  the  defence  of  the  Country,  shall  be  as- 
sumed I'.y  the  General  Govern-ment. 

68.  The  General  Government  shall  secure, 
without  delay,  the  completion  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  from  Riviere  du  Loup,  through  New 
Brunswick,  to  Truro  in  Nova  Scotia. 

69.  The  communications  with  the  Novth-West- 
ern  Territory,  aud  the  improvements  required 
for  the  development  of  the  Trade  of  t  le  Great 
West  with  the  Seaboard,  are  regarde(;  by  this 
Conference  as  subjects  of  the  highest  importance 
to  the  Federated  Provinces,  and  shall  be  prosn- 
cuted  at  the  earliest  possible  period  tfiat  the  state 
of  the  Finances  will  permit. 

70.  The  sanction  of  the  Imperial  and  Local 


Parliaments  shall  be  sought  for  the  Union  of  the 
Provinces,  on  the  principlfs adopted  by  the  Con- 
ference. 

71.  That  Her  Majesty  the  Queen  be  solicited 
to  determine  the  rank  and  name  of  the  Federated 
Provinces. 

72.  The  prooeedihfrs  of  the  Conference  shall 
be  authenticated  by  the  signatures  of  the  DeFe- 
gates,  and  submitted  by  each  Deleiration  to  its 
own  Government,  and  the  Chairman  is  author- 
ized to  submit  a  copy  to  the  Governor  General 
for  transmission  to  the  Secretary  of  State  for  the 
Colonies. 

Having  read  the  motion,  the  hon.  gentleman 
commenced  to  speak  in  French,  when  Hon. 
Mr.  Koss  requested  he  should  address  the 
House  in  English. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  thought,  as  there 
were  two  members  of  the  government  in  the 
House,  one  who  spoke  best  in  French  (Sir  E. 
P.  Tach^),  and  one  who  did  the  same  in  Eng- 
lish, it  would  be  better  for  the  Hon.  Premier 
to  speak  in  French,  and  then  his  colleague 
could  do  the  same  in  English ;  but  Hon.  Sir 
E.  P.  TxcHt  concluded  that  as  there  were 
English  members  who  did  not  understand 
French  at  all,  while  the  French  members  all 
understood  English,  it  would  be  best  for  him 
to  speak  in  the  latter  lang-uage,  and  proceed- 
ed t-o  do  so. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  then  said  that  in 
moving  the  resolution  he  felt  it  his  duty  first 
to  make  a  few  preliminai-y  remarks,  and  to 
give  fully  and  thoroughly  the  reasons  which 
had  induced  him  to  assume  the  grave  respon- 
sibility of  laying  this  nic;u>ure  before  the 
House  and  the  country.  The  reasons  were 
two-fold.  They  related  first  to  the  intrinsic 
merits  of  the  scheme  itself,  divested  of  all 
other  considerations,  and  next,  to  the  settle- 
ment of  the  domestic  difficulties  which  for 
some  years  had  distracted  the  country,  and 
the  means  we  niighl  and  ought  to  employ  to  re- 
store good  fc(!ling,  harmony  and  concord  there- 
in. He  would,  then,  first  address  himself  to 
what  he  considered  the  intrinsic  merits  of  the 
sclieine  of  Confederation,  and  he  would  there- 
fore say  that  if  were  anxious  tf)  continue  our 
connection  with  the  British  Empire,  and  to 
preserve  intact  our  institutions,  our  laws, 
and  even  our  remeuibrances  of  the  past,  we 
must  eustiin  the  measure.  If  the  oppor- 
tunity which  now  presented  itself  were  iillowcd 
to  p:iss  by  unimproved,  wlictln  r  we  wouhl  or 
would  not.  wo  would  be  forced  into  the  Ameri- 
can Union  by  violence,  jiml  if  not  by  violence, 
would  be  pi  u-ed  upon  an  inclined  jilain  wliich 
would  carry  uh  lliere  iiiHi'nHibly.  lu  eiUier 
case  the  result  would  ])e  the  same.     In  our 


present  condition  we  would  not  long  continue 
to  exist  as  a  British  colony.     To  sustain  this 
position  he  thought  it  was  only  nece.=»ai-y  to 
look  at  the  present  state  of  Canada,  its  extent, 
its  agricultural  and  mineral  resources,  its  in- 
ternal means  of  communication — natural  and 
artificial,  —  its  geographical    position  and  its 
climate.     The  extent  of  the  Canadian  terri- 
tory was,  perhaps,  not  defined,  but  it  was  suf- 
ficiently well    known  to  enable  him  to  state 
that  it  was  as  large  as  many  empires  in  Eu- 
rope, larger  than    France  or  Austria.      He 
knew  that  the  portion  cultivated  was,  in  re- 
spect to  its  superficial  area,  only  as  to  the  sea- 
coast  to  the  sea  itself     We  had  vast  forest* 
not  yet  opened  or  occupied,  and  yet  we  had  a 
population   numbering   over   two  and  a  half 
millions  of  souls.     With  such  an  extent  of 
territory  and  so  fertile  a  soil,  he  had  no  doubt 
whatever  that  in  less  than  half  a  century  Ca- 
nada would    embrace   a  population  equal  to 
that  of  the  large  empires  of  the  old  world. 
Then  with  regard  to  our  internal  communica 
tions,  natural   and    artificial,    there  was  the 
noble  St.  LawTence,  which,  ■with  great  pro- 
priety, might  be  called  the  father  of  rivers, 
for  this  stream,  in  point  of  navigable  extent, 
was  longer  than  any  otlier  river  in  the  world. 
Some  of  its  tributaj-ies  which  would  help  to 
people  the  interior,  were  larger  than  the  first- 
class  rivers  of  Europe,  and   as  to  its  lakes, 
nonesuch  are  to  be  found  elsewhere,  especially 
in  view  of  the  facilities  they  aft'ord  to  trade. 
Then    the   minerals  of  Canada,  which  were 
only  now  beginning  to  attract  attention,  were  of 
the  most  valuable  character,  and  as  practical 
men  asserted,  much  more  valuable  than  the 
richest  auriferous  regions  could  be.     The  hon- 
orable member  then  referred  to  the  artificial 
commucations  of  the  country,  viz.,  our  Caiuds, 
which,  he  said,  were  on  a  scale  unenitalled  in 
America,  or,  indeed,  in  the  world.     Our  Hail- 
way  system  too,  in  proportion  to  our  means 
and  population,  was  as  extensive  as  could  be 
found  anywhere  else;  yet  with  all  these  ad- 
vantages, natural  and  acfjuired,  he  was  l)ound 
to  say  we  coiiid  not  become  a  great  nation. 
We  labored  imder  a  drawback  or  disadvantage 
which  wo\ild  eflect\ially  prevent  that,  and  he 
would  defy  any  one  to  take  a  map  of  the  world 
and  point  toany  great  nation  which  had  not  sea- 
port.-* oi"  its  own  open  at  nil  times  of  the  year. 
Canada  did  not  jwssess  those  advant.nges,  but 
was  shut  uj)  in  a  pri.son,  as  it  were,  for  five 
months  of  the  year  in  fields  of  iie.  which  all 
the   steam    engineering   apparatus  of  human 
ingenuity  could  not  overcome,  Jmd  so  long  as 
this  Htate  of  things  continued,  we  must  con- 


sent  to  be  a  small  people,  who  could,  at  any 
moment,  be  assailed  and  invaded  by  a  people 
better  situated  in  that  respect  than  we  were. 
Canada  was,  in  fact,  just  like  a  farmer  who 
might  stand  upon  an  elevated  spot  on  his 
property,  from  which  he  could  look  around 
upon  fertile  fields,  meandering  streams,  wood 
and  all  else  that  was  necessary  to  his  domestic 
wants,  but  who  had  no  outlet  to  the  highway. 
To  be  sure  he  might  have  an  easy,  good-na- 
tured neighbor,  who  had  such  an  outlet,  and 
this  neighbor  might  say  to  him,  "  Don't  be 
uneasy  about  that,  for  I  will  allow  yoii  to  pass 
on  to  the  highway,  through  my  cross  road,  and 
we  shall  both  profit  by  the  arrangement."     So 


long  as  this  obliging  neighbor  was  in  good 


humor  everything  would  go  on  pleasantly,  but 
the  very  best  natured  people  would  sometimes 
get  out  of  temper,  or  grow  capricious,  or  cir- 
cumstances might  arise  to  cause  in-itation.  And 
so  it  might  come  to  pass  that  the  excellent 
neighbor  would  get  dissatisfied.  For  instance, 
he  might  be  iuAolved  in  a  tedious  and  expen- 
sive law  suit  with  some  one  else  ;  it  might  be 
a  serious  affair — in  fact,  an  affair  of  life  or 
death,  and  he  mis:ht  come  to  the  isolated 
farmer  and  say  to  him,  "'  I  understand  that 
you  and  your  family  are  all  sympathising  with 
my  adversary ;  I  don't  like  it  at  all,  and  I  am 
determined  you  will  find  some  other  outlet  to 
the  highway  than  my  cross  road,  for  hence- 
forth my  gate  will  be  shut  against  you."  In 
such  a  case  what  is  the  farmer  to  do  ?  There 
is  the  air  left,  but  until  the  aerostatic  science 
is  more  practically  developed,  he  can  hardly 
try  ballooning  without  the  risk  of  breaking 
his  neck.  (Laughter.)  Well,  that  was  pre- 
cisely our  position  in  reference  to  the  United 
States.  Since  the  Atlantic  and  St.  Lawrence 
Railway  was  opened  we  have  had  a  very  con- 
venient outlet  to  the  sea,  and  he,  with  oth»r 
hon.  members  now  present,  would  remember 
the  joyful  jubilee  which  was  held  on  the  occa- 
sion of  its  opening  at  Boston  in  1851  or  '52. 
For  one  he  was  perfectly  delighted,  as  being  a 
man  of  a  different  orisrin,  to  mark  how  the  two 
branches  of  the  Anglo-Saxon  race  fraternised. 
How  they  did  shake  hands  to  be  sure  !  How 
they  did  compliment  each  other  as  possessing 
qualities  superior  to  all  other  people.  They 
were  indeed  very  affectionate  and  almost  swore 
eteraal  friendship  and  fidelity,  and  he  (Sir 
E.  P.  Tach]6)  had  no  doubt  whatever  of 
their  perfect  sincerity  at  the  time.  The  con- 
sequences of  this  great  work  had,  no  doubt, 
been  highly  advantageous  to  both  sides,  for 
their  commercial  relations  had  enlarged  very 
much,  so  much  indeed  that  now  the  transac- 


tions with  the  United  States  were,  as  he  be- 
lieved, more  extensive  than  those  with  Great 
Britain.  If  the  advantao-es  had  been  all  on 
one  side  this  increase  would,  of  course,  not 
have  taken  place.  But  how  were  we  situated 
now  ?  Difficulties  had  supei-vened,  in  which 
we  were  in  no  wise  concerned,  but  which  ori- 
ginated with  themselves.  It  was  North  against 
South  solely,  yet  these  difficulties  had  afl'ected 
the  good  feelin"'  between  them  and  this  coun- 
try.  To  be  sure  there  had  been  no  misunder- 
standing at  all  between  our  respective  Govern- 
ments, but  the  minds  of  the  people  on  both 
sides  had  been  considerably  affected.  The 
people  of  the  Northern  States  believed  that 
Canadians  sympathized  with  the  South  much 
more  than  they  really  did,  and  the  conse- 
quences of  this  misapprehension  were :  first, 
that  we  had  been  threatened  with  the  abolition 
of  the  transit  system ;  then  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty  was  to  be  discontinued  ;  then  a  pass- 
port system  was  inaugurated,  which  was  almost 
equivalent  to  a  prohibition  of  intercourse,  and 
the  only  thing  which  really  remained  to  be 
done  was  to  shut  down  the  gate  altogether  and 
prevent  passage  through  their  territor)^  Would 
any  one  say  that  such  a  state  of  things  was 
one  desirable  for  Canada  to  be  placed  in  ?  Will 
a  great  people  in  embryo,  as  he  believed  we 
were,  coolly  and  tranquilly  cross  their  arms  and 
wait  for  what  might  come  next  ?  For  his  part 
he  held  that  the  time  had  now  arrived  when  we 
should  establish  a  union  with  the  great  Gulf 
Provinces.  He  called  them  great  advisedly, 
for  they  had  within  themselves  many  of  the 
elements  which  went  to  constitute  greatness, 
and  of  some  of  which  we  were  destitute. — 
Canada  was  unquestionably  wanting  in  several 
of  these  important  elements,  and  he  had  been 
very  sorry  a  few  days  ago  to  hear  an  hon. 
member  of  this  House  make  comparisons  un- 
favorable to  those  countries.  That  hon.  mem- 
ber had  said  the  Lower  Provinces  were  poor 
and  needy,  and  that  like  all  other  poor  people 
they  would  no  doubt  be  glad  to  connect  them- 
selves with  a  wealthy  partner.  He  had  also 
said  their  product  of  wheat  was  very  small, 
and  that  one  of  the  inferior  counties  in  Upper 
Canada  yielded  more  than  the  whole  of  New 
Brunswick.  Well,  the  allegations  in  respect 
of  the  produce  of  wheat  might  be  true  ;  but 
that  did  not  necessarily  constitute  them  poor 
provinces.  Let  the  honorable  member  look 
at  Massachusetts,  Connecticut,  Rhode  Island 
and  New  Hampshire,  which,  in  respect  of 
agricultural  ^^roduce,  might  be  said  to  be  poor, 
so  poor  that  an  American  had  once  told  him 
(Sir  E.  P.  Tach£)  that  they  did  not  even  grow 


8 


grass,  and  their  inhabitants  had  to  file  the 
teeth  of  their  sheep  in  summer  to  enable  them 
to  get  a  subsistence.  (Laughter.)  Yet  were 
these  states  poor?  Had  they  no  resources 
from  their  trade  and  manufactures  ?  If  they 
did  not  produce  wealth  in  one  way  they  cer- 
tainly did  in  others,  and  so  it  was  with  New 
Brunswick.  If  it  did  not  produce  wheat,  it 
produced  timber  in  immense  quantities.  It 
had  a  very  exteu.sive  fishing  coast  which  was 
a  source  of  great  wealth.  Some  honorable 
gentlemen  would  perhaps  remember  what  an 
eminent  man  from  Nova  Scotia — the  Hon. 
Joseph  Howe — had  said  at  a  dinner  in  this 
country  in  1850,  that  he  knew  of  a  small 
granite  rock  upon  which,  at  a  siugle  haul  of 
the  net,  the  fishermen  had  taken  500  barrels 
of  mackerel.  That  was  a  great  haul  no 
doubt — (laughter) — but  the  honorable  gentle- 
man had  not  given  the  size  of  the  barrels. 
(Laughter.)  Still  no  one  could  deny  that  the 
Gulf  Provinces  were  of  immense  importance, 
if  only  in  respect  of  their  fisheries.  Then 
they  were  rich  in  minerals.  Their  coal  alone 
was  an  element  of  great  wealth.  It  had  been 
said  that  where  coal  was  found  the  country  was 
of  more  value  than  gold.  Look  at  England, 
and  what  was  the  chief  source  of  her 
wealth  ii'  not  coal?  Deprived  of  coal,  she 
would  at  once  sink  to  the  rank  of  a  second  or 
third  rate  power.  But  Canada  had  no  coal, 
and  notwithstanding  all  her  other  elements 
of  greatness,  she  required  that  mineral  in 
order  to  give  her  completeness.  What 
she  had  not,  the  Lower  Provinces  had ; 
and  what  they  had  not,  Canada  had. 
Then  as  to  ship-building,  it  was  an  industiy 
prosecuted  w-ith  great  vigor  and  success  in 
tliose  provinces,  esp»jcially  in  New  Brunswick, 
and  some  of  the  finest  vessels  sailing  under 
the  British  flag  had  been  built  in  the  port  of 
St.  John,  wiiicli  annually  launched  a  consi- 
derable number  of  the  largest  class.  They 
were  not  beggare,  nor  did  they  wish  to  come 
into  the  union  as  such  ;  but  as  inde)K'iKk'nt 
provinces,  able  to  keep  up  their  eredit,  and 
provide  lor  their  own  wants.  They  would 
bring  into  the  common  stoek  a  fair  share  oi" 
revenue,  of  jjroperty,  and  of  every  kind  ol' 
industry.  As  to  their  harbours,  he  (Sir  E.  P. 
Tac'H£)  had  had  the  good  Ibrtiuic  to  visit 
them  jKTsoually,  :ind  would  siiy  they  could 
not  be  sur|Kus,sed  anywhere  ;  in  fact  he  believed 
they  were  uneijualled  in  the  world.  He  would 
espeeially  reler  to  tlj»t  of  Halifax,  and  would 
ask  honorable  incnibers  to  imagine  an  exten- 
•ive  roadHi«ad,  protected  by  several  islands 
titundin^'  out  in  the  sou,  so  as  to  break  the 


waves  and  quiet  the  waters  in  the  worst  of 
storms.  This  most  beautiful  harbour  could 
accommodate,  in  perfect  safety,  more  than  100 
of  the  largest  vessels ;  but  this  was  not  all, 
for  at  the  east  end  where  it  diminished  into  a 
gully,  but  with  very  deep  water,  you  enter 
into  a  large  natural  basin,  rounded  as  it  were 
by  the  compass,  and  of  au  extent  sufficient  to 
take  in  all  the  navies  of  the  world.  The 
entrance  to  this  magnificent  inner  harbour  was 
rendered  inacces.sible  to  any  foe  by  the  fortifi- 
cations erected  at  the  mouth,  and  the  entrance 
could,  moreover,  be  so  barred  that  no  hostile 
fleet  could  ever  get  through.  He  did  not 
suppo.se  the  fleets  of  England  would  ever  need 
to  take  refuge  there — (hear,  heai*) — although 
it  had  been  loudly  alleged  that  they  could  be 
blown  out  of  the  water  in  an  incredibly  short 
space  of  time — (laughter) — but  it  might  afford 
shelter  to  isolated  vessels,  in  ca.se  they  were 
hard  pushed  by  superior  numbers.  Well, 
under  the  union,  Canada  would  become  a 
partner  in  these  advantages,  and  with  the 
harbours  of  Halifax  and  Quebec,  they  might 
well  feel  proud  of  their  country.  On  the 
whole,  he  thought  that  the  Confederation  of 
all  the  Pro\inces  had  become  an  abstjlute 
necessity,  and  that  it  was  fi>r  us  a  question  of 
to  be  or  not  to  be.  If  we  desired  to  remain 
British  and  monarchical,  and  if  we  desired  tu 
pass  to  our  children  the.se  advantages,  this 
measure,  he  rojieatcd,  was  a  necessity.  But 
there  were  other  motives  and  other  reasons 
which  should  induce  us  to  agree  to  the  scheme. 
Every  honorable  gentlem;m  in  the  House  knew 
the  political  position  of  the  country,  and  wen' 
acquainted  with  the  feelings  of  irritation  which 
have  prevailed  for  many  years.  They  knew  it 
happily  not  by  their  experience  in  this  House, 
but  by  the  tone  of  the  public  press,  and  by  the 
discussions  in  another  place  where  taunts  and 
menaces  were  I'reely  flung  across  the  floor  by 
contending  parties.  They  knew  what  human 
passions  were,  and  how,  when  bitter  feelings 
continued  for  a  long  time,  the  distance  between 
exasperation  and  actual  confliet  was  not  very 
great.  They  had  now  before  their  own  eyes 
an  example  ol'  the  efl'ects  of  sueh  disagreements. 
It  was  persistently  believed  by  many  that  the 
rival  interests  would  never  come  to  a  rupture, 
but  for  three  years  they  had  ham  waging  a 
conflict  which  had  desolated  and  ruined  tlie 
I'airesl  jxirtiou  ol"  the  ejHintry,  and  in  the  eourse 
of  which  acts  of  barbarity  had  been  committed 
which  were  fuily  equalled  by  the  darkest  ages. 
We  in  Canada  were  nut  more  perfect,  and  the 
time  had  arrived  when,  as  he  believed,  all  the 
patriotic  men  in  the  country  ought  to  unite  in 


9 


providing  a  remedy  for  the  troublefi  we  had  to  1 
contend   with.     It  might  be   said   that   the 
remedy   proposed  was   not  required,   but  he 
would  like  to  know  what  other  could  be  pro- 
posed.    Legislation  in  Canada  for  the  last  two 
years  had  come  almost  to  a  stand  still,  and  if 
any  one  would  refer  to  the  Statute  Book  since 
1862,   he  would   find   that  the  only  public 
measures   there   inscribed    had   been   passed 
simply  by  the  permission  of  the  Opposition. 
This  was  the  condition  of  things  for  two  years, 
and  if  this  were  an  evil  there  was  another  not 
less  to  be  deplored ;  he  referred  to  the  adminis- 
tration of  public  affairs  during  the  same  period. 
From  the  ^Ist  May,  1862,  to  the  end  of  June, 
1864,  there  had  been  no  less  than  five  different 
Governments  in  charge  of  the  business  of  the 
country.     The  honorable  member  here  gave  a 
history  of  the  several  changes  until  the  Mac- 
DONALD-DoRiON  Administration  died,  as  he 
stated,  of  absolute  weakness,  falling  under  the 
weight   they  were   unable   to   carry.     Their 
successors    were    not    more    successful,    and 
being  defeated  were  thinking  of  appealing  to 
the   country,   which  they  might  have   done 
with  more  or  less  success,   gaining  a  consti- 
tuency here,  and  perhaps  losing  another  else- 
where.     They  had   assumed   the   charge   of 
affairs  with  an  understanding  that  they  would 
have  a  right  to  this  appeal,  and  while  they 
were  consulting  about  it  they  received  an  inti- 
mation from  the  real:  chief  of  the  Opposition, 
through  one  of  their  own  friends,  to  the  effect 
that  he  was  desirous  of  making  overtures  to 
them,  with  the  view  of  seeking  to  accommo- 
date the  difficulties.     The  honorable  gentleman 
and  some  of  his  friends  then  came  into  contact 
with  the  leaders  of  the  Government,  and  it 
was  agreed  between  them  to  try  to  devise  a 
scheme  which  would  put  an  end  to  the  mis- 
understandings, and  at  the  same  time  secure 
for  Canada  and  the  other  provinces  a  position 
which  would  ensure  their  future  safety  and 
procure  them  the  respect  and  confidence  of 
other  nations.     They  arranged  a  large  scheme 
and  a  smaller  one.     If  the  larger  failed,  then 
they  were  to  fall  back  upon  the  minor,  which 
provided  for  a  federation  of  the  two  sections  of 
the  province.      At  the  time  these  measures 
were  resolved  upon,  the  country  was  bordering 
on  civil  strife,  and  he  would  ask  if  it  was  not 
the  duty  of  both  sides  to  do  all  they  could  to 
prevent  the  unfortunate  results  which  would 
have  followed.     An  honorable  member  oppo- 
site (Hon.  Mr.  Letellier  de  St.  Just)  had 
said,  a  few  days  ago,  that  it  would  have  been 
easy  to  have   prevented  the   necessity  for  a 
Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  by  granting 


to  Upper  Canada  the  increased  representation, 
or  the  demand  of  representation  according  to 
population,  which  they  had  been  contending 
for. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
begged  to  say  that  the  Hon.  Premier  must 
have  misunderstood  him.  What  he  had  said 
was  that  if  the  proposition  had  been  made  to 
the  people  whether  they  should  have  a  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces,  or  give  Repre- 
sentation according  to  Population  to  Upper 
Canada,  they  would  have  chosen  the  latter  ; 
and  when  he  had  alluded  to  some  other  mode 
of  accommodating  the  difficulties,  he  meant 
that  if  the  Government  had  applied  to  other 
parties  in  the  Legislature  than  those  they  had 
had  associated  with  themselves,  they  might 
have  succeeded  without  having  recourse  to 
Confederation. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  said  that  he  had 
not  been  alone  in  interpreting  the  honorable 
member  as  he  had  done,  for  two  city  journals 
had  taken  the  same  view  of  his  remarks. 

Hon.  M.  LETELLIER  said  he  was  aware 
of  it,  but  they  were  mistaken  for  all  that. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Well,  it  did 
not  much  matter ;  but  the  honorable  member 
should  recollect  that  Lower  Canada  had  con- 
stantly refused  the  demand  of  Upper  Canada 
for  representation  according  to  population, 
and  for  the  good  reason  that,  as  the  union 
between  them  was  legislative,  a  preponderance 
to  one  of  the  sections  would  have  placed  the 
other  at  its  mercy.  It  would  not  be  so  in  a 
Federal  Union,  for  all  questions  of  a  general 
nature  would  be  reserved  for  the  General 
Government,  and  those  of  a  local  character  to 
the  local  governments,  who  would  have  the 
power  to  manage  their  domestic  affairs  as  they 
deemed  best.  If  a  Federal  Union  were 
obtained  it  would  be  tantamount  to  a  sepai-a- 
tion  of  the  provinces,  and  Lower  Canada 
would  thereby  preserve  its  autonomy  together 
with  all  the  institutions  it  held  so  dear,  and 
over  which  they  could  exercise  the  watchful- 
ness and  surveillance  necessary  to  preserve  them 
unimpaired.  [The  honorable  member  re- 
peated this  portion  of  his  speech  in  French, 
for  the  express  purpose  of  conveying  his 
meaning  in  the  clearest  and  most  forcible 
manner  to  his  fellow-members  for  Lower 
Canada,  who  might  not  have  apprehended  so 
well  the  English.]  But  there  might  be  a 
portion  of  the  inhabitants  of  Lower  Canada 
who  might  at  a  first  glance  have  greater  reason 
to  complain  than  the  French  Roman  Catholics, 
and  these  were  the  English  Protestants.  And 
why  ?    Because  they  were  in  a  minority  ;  but 


10 


he  thoun;ht  that  if  they  took  the  trouble  fully 
to  cousider  the   subject,  they   would  be   re- 
assured and  satisfied  with  the  scheme.      First 
a  great  event  had  taken  place ;    the  law   of 
Lower  Canada  had  been  consolidated,  and  the 
English-speaking  people  residing  in  that  section 
had  got  reconciled  to  it;  in  fact  they  were  well 
satisfied  tliorewith.       Tn    this    respect,   then, 
they  were  secure.     But  they  might  say    that 
the  majority  in  the  Local  Legislature  might 
hereafter  be  unjust  to  them,  but  he  thought 
that,  on  looking  at  the  past,  their  fears  might 
be  allayed.     Before  the  union  of  the  provinces, 
when  the  large  majority  of  members  in  the 
Legislature  were  French,  the  English  inhabi- 
tants  had   never  found  cause    of    complaint 
against  them.     In  no  instance  had   injustice 
been    attempted.      The  difficulty    was     that 
the  minority  wanted  to  rule   and  wanted  to 
possess  the  whole  power  of  the  state  in  their 
bands.      That  the  people  of   Lower  Canada 
always  acted  towards  the  English  with  liber- 
ality was  best  exemplified  by  facts.     Before 
the  union  ,wile  the  constituencies  were  almost 
exclusively  French,  English  Protestant  gentle- 
men were  frequently  returned  to  Parliament, 
and  he  had  now  opposite  to  him  an  honorable 
member  who  had  for  twenty  years  represented 
an  entirely  French  and  Roman  Catholic  county. 
He  doubted  if  in  the  course  of  those  twenty 
years  that  honorable  member  had  ever  been 
asked  whether  he  were  Scotch  or  Protestant. 
They  took  the  man  for  his  sterling  worth.     It 
was  even  a  fact  that  the  French  had  elected 
members  with    extraordinary  names,   and  as 
everybody  knew,  there  was  sometimes  a  good 
deal  in  a  name.     (Hear,  hear.)    Now  il'  there 
was  one  name  which  French  Canadians  dis- 
liked more  than  another,  it  was  that  of  Luther. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)     Yet  they  had 
elected  a  gentleman  bearing  that   significant 
appellation.     He  was  glad  they  had,  and  he 
hud  no  doubt  lie  had  been  elected  because  of 
his  personal   worth  ;    but  it    unquestionably 
showed  a  great  deal  of  liberal  feeling  on  the 
part  of  the  electors.     (Hear  hear.)     But  if 
an  English  Protestant  wa,s  bad  in  the  eyes  of 
H  French  Canadian,  a  French  Protestant  was 
infinitely  worse,  and  yet   the  county   ol'  Lotr 
binidre   had  elected  a   French  Canadian  Pro- 
testant without  even  questioning  his  religion. 
That  gentlemiin  was  a  most  worthy,  able  and 
well    educated    person,   and   every  way   well 
qualified  for  the  important  trust.     But  ag.iin, 
quite  lately,  in  a  diviniou  in  Lower   Canada 
numbering  over  fifty  thousand  souls,  of  which 
only  one  tliousand  four  hundred  were  Kiigliah, 
M  oleotion  of  a  mombor  to  this  Chamber  hud 


taken  place,  the  candidates  being  a  French 
Roman    Catholic    gentleman,    long  and   well 
known,  and  an  English  Protestant — and  with 
what  result  ?     Why,  that  the  English  Protes- 
tant had  beaten  the  French  Canadian  Roman 
Catholic   by  one   thousand    votes.      (Hear.) 
Could   any  greater  proof  of   a  tolerant  and 
liberal  feeling  be  exhibited  ?    These  examples 
should  show,  as  he  thought,  that  the  Protes- 
tants of  Lower  Canada  were  sure  to  meet  with 
not  justice  simply,  but  with  the  largest  tolera- 
tion.   It  might  perhaps  be  said  that  Mr.  Price, 
who  had  been  elected  for  the  division  of  which 
he  spoke,  being  a  largo  merchant  doing  busi- 
ness in  Chicoutimi,  had  used    the  influence 
which  his  position  gave  him  over  many  electors 
who  were  in  his  debt  to  obtain  success ;  but 
whattiver  might  be  said    of    Chicoutimi,    it 
could  not  be  said  of  the  county  of  Charlevoix, 
where  he  had  no  such  business  relations,  and 
yet  ho  obtained  a  majority  there  too.     The 
fact  was,  the  result  might  be  considered  not 
only  as  a  mark  of  confidence  in  Mr.  Price,  the 
son  elected,  but   as  a  token  of   respect  and 
gratitude  to  Mr.  Price,  senior,  who  had  by  his 
energy  and  enterprise  opened  up  the  Saguenay 
country,  and  who,  in  a  certain  sense,  might  be 
said  to  be  the  father  of  that  region.      Much 
had  been  said  on  the  war  of  races,  but  that 
war  was  extinguished  on  the  day  the  British 
Government  granted  Canada  Responsible  Gov- 
ernment, by  which  all  its  inhabitants,  without 
distinction  of  race  or  creed,  were  placed  on  a 
footing  of  equality.     (Hear,  hear).     The  war 
of  races  found  its  grave  in  the  resolutions  of 
the  3rd  September,  1841,  and  he  hoped  never 
to  hoar  of  it  again.     We  were  so  situated  that 
there  must  needs  bo  mutual  forbearance.  This 
life  was  one  of  compromise.    Not  only  was  for- 
bearance needed  in  puhliclife,  butin  domestic 
life.     If  one  member  in  a  family  insists  upon 
having  all  his  own  way,  there  will  bo  trouble, 
and    so    through    all    possible    relations    of 
humanity.   He  believed  the  French  Canadians 
would  do  all  in  their  power  to  render  justice 
to  their  fellow-subjects    of    English    origb, 
and    it  should   not  be  forgotten    that  if  the 
former  were  in  a  majority  in   Lower   Canada, 
the  English  would  bo   in   a  majority   in    tho 
Gei\eral  Government,  and  that  no  act  ol"  real 
injustice  could  take  place,  even  if  thej-e  were  a 
disposition  to  perpetrate  it,  without  its  being 
reversed  there.  He  had  now  given  to  the  House 
the  motives  whitsh  had  led  him    to   take    the 
respoubibility    of   iutrodueing   this  important 
mcjisure,  and  lie  trusted  they  would  be  viewed 
iiK  sufficient.     When  the  proj>er  timo   for  the 
ditouMiou  of  i\\9  details  oame,  ho  v,  <iuld  b« 


11 


prepared  to  give  such  explanations  ns  might 
seem  requisite,  and  as  to  the  mode  and  time  of 
the  discussion  he  would  leave  that  to  the 
decision  of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR— [Owing 
to  some  noise  in  the  House,  the  reporter  did 
not  clearly  understand  the  opening  remarks  of 
the  hon.  memher,  except  so  far  as  that  he  de- 
sired to  convey  the  impression  that  what  he 
was  about  to  say  was  not  to  be  regarded  as 
committing  any  one  but  himself;  that  he  did 
not  speak  for  any  party  or  as  representing  any 
party  in  the  House.  The  hon.  member  was 
also  understood  to  allege  he  did  not  think  the 
political  struggles  and  difficulties  alluded  to  by 
the  Hon.  Premier  could  be  taken  as  sufficient 
to  justify  the  great  constitutional  change  now 
proposed].  He  thought  that  in  the  course  of 
party  struggles  for  supremacy,  the  Opposition 
had  erred  in  seeking  to  oust  the  Ministry  be- 
fore they  themselves  were  prepared  to  assume 
the  charge  with  a  reasonable  prospect  of  being 
able  to  carry  on  the  Government  with  success. 
This  was  the  British  system,  and  an  instance 
had  lately  occurred  in  the  Imperial  Parliament 
exemplifying  it.  On  the  Danish  question  Mr. 
D' Israeli  could  have  defeated  the  Ministry, 
but,  being  aware  that  he  could  not  form  a 
strong  Administration,  many  of  his  party  ab- 
stained from  voting.  Such  a  condition  of 
things  could  happen  just  as  well  in  an  assem- 
bly of  300  as  in  one  of  600,  and  he  did  not 
think  the  change  proposed  would  guarantee 
immunity  from  future  difficulties  of  the  same 
kind,  therefore  they  might  happen  in  the  Gen- 
eral Government  as  well  as  in  that  of  Canada 
alone.  But  looking  at  the  scheme  as  pre- 
sented, and  forgetting  all  past  party  disputes 
and  the  charges  against  the  public  men  con- 
cerned, it  came  before  the  House  in  such  a 
shape  as  to  make  it  necessary  to  accept  or  re- 
ject it.  He  must  say  he  could  not  but  attach 
great  weight  to  a  scheme  prepared  by  men  of 
different  political  opinions,  by  eminent  men 
who  had  met  together  for  the  express  purpose 
of  arranging  it,  and  who  had  agreed  upon  its 
provisions.  If  it  were  obstructed  by  any  seri- 
ous amendments,  involving  a  prolonged  delay, 
such  delav  mit'ht  be  fatal,  and  if  it  were  to 
pass,  he  thought  it  should  be  allowed  to  do  so 
at  a  sufficiently  early  period  to  permit  of  its 
being  laid  before  the  Imperial  Parliament  this 
year.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  could  not  shut  his 
eyes  to  the  fact  that  whether  or  not  the  union 
added  strength  to  the  provinces  interested,  it 
would  unquestionably  add  to  their  respecta- 
bility and  standing,  both  at  homeland  abroad. 
(Hear.)     The  people  of  England  were,  evi- 


dently looking  to  the  proposed  change  with 
confidence  and  hope,  and  as  likely  to  perpet^ 
uate  the  connection  of  the  provinces  with  the 
empire  for  a  long  time  to  come.  But  it  was 
well  known  that  there  was  an  anti-colonial 
party  in  England  persistently  urging  that  it 
would  be  an  advantage  to  the  nation  to  get  rid 
of  the  colonies.  The  question  of  defending 
them  was  an  embarrassing  one,  and  unless 
some  such  scheme  as  this  were  adopted,  it 
might  present  grave  difficulties.  If  the  scheme 
were  rejected,  the  effect  would  be  very  injuri- 
ous upon  our  credit.  (Hear.)  But  if  adopted, 
the  reverse  would  be  the  case.  Its  acceptance 
would  also  improve  ovir  position  in  the  eyes  of 
our  neighbors  in  France  and  other  nations ; 
indeed  it  would,  in  all  probability,  give  us  a 
national  standing,  without  the  necessity  of 
separating  from  the  mother  country.  For  these 
reasons  he  had  come  to  the  conscientious  con- 
clusion that  it  would  be  highly  injurious  to 
reject  the  scheme,  and  that  it  was  our  duty  to 
pass  it  as  soon  as  was  consistent  with  a  due 
consideration  of  what  was  due  to  so  important 
a  subject.  He  did  not  think  it  necessary  to 
express,  at  greater  length,  his  reasons  for  giv- 
ing the  motion  his  support,  but  he  again  de- 
sired it  to  be  well  understood  that  he  spoke 
only  for  himself,  and  not  in  concert  with  any 
one  else.  At  the  same  time  he  might  say, 
that  from  what  he  knew  personally  of  the 
feeling  of  his  section  of  the  country,  it  was 
highly  favorable  to  the  measure.  There  might 
be  some  matters  of  detail  upon  which  there 
was  a  difference  of  opinion,  and  when  the  reso- 
lutions came  up  in  their  order,  he  would  indi- 
cate what  they  were.  The  proposed  submis- 
sion of  the  scheme  to  the  electors  would  in- 
volve a  delay  which  could  not  be  compensated 
for  by  any  benefit  proposed  to  be  derived  from 
such  a  course!;  but  if  there  should  hereafter  be 
any  very  important  public  movement  and 
numerous  petitions  in  favor  of  an  appeal  to 
the  people,  then  the  subject  would  present  a 
different  aspect.  Or  if  the  majority  in  favor 
of  the  scheme  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Le- 
gislature should  be  very  small,  that^  might  be 
deemed  a  sufficient  reason  for  submitting  it  to 
the  country.  As  to  the  course  to  be  pursued  in 
the  decision  on  the  merits,  he  did  not  know  whe- 
ther it  would  be  best  to  have  it  in  Committee 
of  the  Whole  or  with  the  Speaker  in  the  chair. 
Hon.  Sir  E.  p.  TACHE  thought  it  would  be 
better  that  the  Speaker  should  continue  in  the 
chair,  but  with  the  understanding  that  every 
honorable  member  should  be  at  liberty  to  speak 
asjreely  and  frequently  as  if  the  House  were 
iu  comuiittee. 


12 


Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR  assented. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
said,  that  if  he  were  suflBciently   master  of 
English  he  would  address  the  House  in  that 
language,  but  not  being  bo  would  have  to  use 
the  French.     The  difficulties  to  which  allusion 
had  been  made  were  produced  by  two  cau.seB. 
They   were  not  constitutional,   however,  but 
parliamentary,  and,  as  he  believed,  could  have 
been    surmounted    without    recourse   to   the 
constitutional  change  which  it  was  proposed 
to  adopt  without  appeal  to  the  country.     It 
was   true  that  difficulties  had   succeeded  to 
difficulties,  and  that  legislation  was  stopped, 
but  if  the  leaders  had   sought  in  the  Legisla- 
ture itself  for  the  means  of  removing  them,  he 
believed  they  would  have  been  found.     Who 
would  guarantee  the  Government  under  the 
new  Constitution  from  the  recurrence  of  similar 
troubles  ?     There  would  of  course  be  an  Op- 
position as  in  the  smaller  House.     If  similar 
difficulties  happened,  would  the  Confederation 
seek  relief  in  another  change  of  Constitution. 
On  the  contrary,  would  not  relief  be  sought 
in  the  means  he  had  suggested.     At  any  rate 
he  did  not  think  such  a  change  as  the  union 
of  all  the  British  provinces  was  required.     In 
1820,  when   a  union  of  Upper   and   Lower 
Canada  was  proposed,  it  was  objected  that  if 
it  did  not  work  a  larger  union  would  follow, 
and  then,  lastly,  a  legislative  union  of  all  the 
provinces.     Two  of   these  steps  had  already 
been  taken,  and  we  were  going  on  with  rapid 
strides  towards  the  last.     In  such  a  case  it  was 
not  hard  to  conceive  what  would  be  the  posi- 
tion of  Lower  Canada.     It  was  a  misfortune 
that  we  had  to  contend  with  national  prejudices, 
but  it  was  impossible  to  forget  them.     In  the 
event  of  a  legislative  union  would  the  guaran- 
tees  proposed   to  Lower    Canada    under   the 
federation  system  be  found  ?     Would  it  not 
then  be  at  the  mercy  of  those  they  now  feared  ? 
He  admitted  we  had  a  rich  country  as  repre- 
sented ;  we  had  wheat  fields,  mineral  resources, 
forests,  rivers  and  lakes,  but  to  make  them 
available  did  we  require  an  increase  of  terri- 
tory ?      We   had    territory   enougli,    and    an 
increase  would  be  a  source  of  weakness,  not  of 
strength.     Would  it  not  add  to  our  already 
large  frontier,  and  make  us  more  vulnerabK- 
to  inviisions.     The  union  would  not  increase 
the   power   of  England   to    protect   us,    and 
England    would    liave    the   same   interest   in 
protecting  the  colonies  without  as  well  as  with 
the  union.      New   Brunswick  iniglit  be  rich 
in  coal,  in  wood  and  in  lisheritis,  and  do  a  large 
business  in  ship   building,  but   the.so    things 
would  beck  the  best  markets  under  any  circuni- 


stinces,  and  he  did  not  see  that  a  union  with 
us  would  increase  their  value,  and  if  it  did 
it  would  be  no  advantage.  Then,  a.«5  to  Nova 
Scotia  with  its  .small  population  and  fine 
harbour — wliere  would  be  the  advantage  of 
connection  with  her?  Though  not  united, 
would  not  the  harbour  be  equally  available  to 
our  vessels  ?  He  would  now  say  he  preferred 
to  Confederation  a  legislative  union  of  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada  with  inequality  of  repre- 
sentation in  the  Lower  House  and  equality  in 
the  Upper.  This  would  not  add  to  the  ex- 
penses of  the  province,  and  would  be  more 
consonant  with  our  interests  and  the  sentiments 
[ideas]  of  the  people.  Though  there  should 
be  inequality  in  the  Assembly,  the  equality  in 
the  Legislative  Council  would  act  as  a  coun- 
terpoise, and  prevent  one  section  from  invading 
the  interests  of  the  other.  Then  did  not  Con- 
federation consecrate  [establish]  the  principle 
of  representation  according  to  population  ? 
It  would  give  larger  to  one  of  the  nationalities, 
and,  as  the  General  Government  would  be  able 
to  veto  the  acts  of  the  Local  Government, 
would  there  be  no  danger  to  Lower  Canada? 
If  representation  by  population  had  been  so 
much  opposed  in  this  part,  it  was  doubtless 
because  there  was  cause  of  fear,  yet  this  very 
power  was  to  be  conferred  upon  the  Federal 
Government.  If  it  could  not  be  given  with 
safety  under  our  present  regime,  how  could  it 
be  safer  to  give  it  to  the  Confederation.  The 
advantage  of  the  plan  to  Upper  Canada  was 
well  understood,  for  immediately  after  the 
coalition  they  all  agreed  to  say  they  had 
gained  what  they  had  so  long  contended  for. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHfi— Well,  after  all, 
they  only  got  what  the  honorable  member 
liimself  proposed  to  give  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
said  he  always  preferred  a  short  diri'ot  course 
to  a  long  tortuous  one.  The  friends  of  the 
new  uutvement  had  tried  to  conceal  tlie  fact 
that  representation  according  to  popuhuion 
was  to  be  conceded  to  I  pper  Canada,  but  they 
had  failed,  and  the  avowal  hud  come  out  at 
last.  The  resolutions  not  being  before  the 
House,  it  would  be  iuiprop<T  to  go  into  the 
merits  ol'  the  details,  but  he  could  not  avoid 
alluding  to  one  point  which  was  of  }irofound 
interest.  It  was  clear  llmt  the  const iliuiuie* 
had  not  sent  honorable  memlters  totliis  House 
for  the  purpo.sc  of  electing  thonisi'lves  mem- 
bers tiir  life,  as  they  were  invited  to  do.  They 
were  not  sent  lieix'  to  change  tlie  Constitution, 
but  to  uphold  it.  (Hear.)  You  were,  in 
fact,  about  to  declare  that  the  local  govern- 
meut^t  would  have  power  to  recommend  to  the 


13 


General  Grovemment  that  you  should  be  ap- 
pointed for  life.  If  so,  then  let  the  people  say 
whether  such  power  should  be  conferred. 
Take  the  means  to  make  sure  that  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Assembly  shall  appeal  to  the 
country.  In  New  Brunswick  the  question 
was  about  to  be  submitted  to  the  people 
through  a  general  election.  To  be  sure,  it 
was  said  that  the  term  of  Parliament  there 
had  expired  ;  but  if  the  Ministers  in  New 
Brunswick  had  understood  they  could  force 
a  vote,  as  was  about  to  be  done  in  Canada, 
he  doubted  whether  the  general  election  would 
have  taken  place  immediately.  He  beUeved, 
too,  that  the  Conference  generally  had  re- 
garded this  as  the  most  proper  mode.  Then 
he  did  not  think  that  such  a  change  should 
have  been  brought  about  under  a  Coalition 
Government.  This  was  contrary  ^_to  British 
usage,  and  he  believed  that  if  a  petition  was 
numerously  signed,  and  forwarded  to  the 
Imperial  Government,  repr&senting  that  this 
important  change  had  been  brought  about  by 
a  coalition,  the  act  would  be  declared  uncon- 
stitutional. The  scheme  was  practically 
unknown  to  the  people.  Under  some  pres- 
sure it  had  been  sent  confidentially.^  to  the 
members,  but  what  did  the  country  under- 
stand of  it  ? — little  or  nothing.  It  had  been 
said  that  if  the  scheme  were  not  adopted  nuw 
it  would  be  in  danger ;  but  would  it  not  keep 
good  for  a  little  while  ?  Was  it  feared  that 
the  people  would  find  out  that  it  would 
occasion  increased  expense,  and  so  refuse  to 
have  it  ?  If  only  for  the  reason  that  it  was 
not  known  to  the  people,  he  would  vote  against 
it.  When  the  details  came  to  be  discussed, 
he  believed  some  of  them  would  not  be  ap- 
proved ;  and  he  also  thought  that  the  project 
did  not  embrjice  all  the  provisions  wliich  it 
should  embrace.  Finally,  he  thought  the 
Government  should  not  set  its  face  against 
some  changes  in  the  scheme,  were  it  only  in 
the  matter  of  the  election  of  members  to  the 
Legislative  Council,  and  he  hoped  the  House 
would  lead  them  to  consent  to  that  alteration. 
When  the  resolutions  came  up,  he  would  make 
it  his  duty  to  speak  more  positively  to  the 
particulars  in  question.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber then  sat  down,  saying  he  approved  of  the 
mode  of  discussion  proposed-     (Hear,  hear.  J 

HOiN.  Mr.  CURRIE  then  moved  that  the 
debate  be  adjourned  until  Monday,  which  was 
carried. 


LEGISLATIVE     ASSEMBLY, 


Friday,  February  3,  1865. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  the 
Speaker  having  desired  that  he  should  not  go 
on  with  the  Address  about  the  union  of  the 
colonies,  he  proposed  not  to  take  it  up  till 
Monday  next,  but  as  the  matter  was  one  of 
the  utmost  importance,  he  thought  it  would 
be  well  now  to  settle  the  mode  of  conducting 
the  discussion.  He  would  propose  that  after 
the  discussion  commenced,  it  shouM  continue 
day  after  day,  and  that  for  the  purpose  of 
greater  regularity  the  Speaker  should  remain 
in  the  chair.  At  the  same  time  he  would 
propose  that  the  rule  which  prevented  mem- 
bers speaking  more  than  once  when  the  Speak- 
er was  in  the  chair  should  be  suspended,  in 
order  that  every  member  might  ha-s  e  the  same 
liberty  of  free  discussion  as  he  would  have  in 
Committee  of  the  Whole. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  said  the  Attm-- 
ney  General's  proposition  that  discussion 
should  continue  day  after  day,  was  one  which, 
in  his  opinion,  ought  not  to  be  entertained  by 
the  House.  This  was  a  very  gTavc  question, 
and  he  thought  the  people  of  this  country  had 
a  right  to  consider  maturely  the  sentiments 
promulgated  by  their  representatives  with  re- 
gard to  it.  He  was  sorry,  therefore,  to  have 
heard  it  announced  by  the  Attorney  General 
that  the  Government  were  to  hurry  the  mea- 
sure through,  to  the  exclusion  or"  all  other 
matters. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  he  had 
not  stated  this.  His  idea  was  that  after  the 
debate  commenced  it  should  go  on  each  day 
after  half-past  seven,  leaving  the  afternoon  sit- 
ting for  other  business.  If  the  discussion  was  to 
be  confined  to  government  days,  the  debate  of 
Tuesday  would  be  forgotten  by  Friday,  the 
same  arguments  would  be  gone  over,  and  they 
would  sit  the  whole  year  round  to  tinish  it. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  said  other 
changes  of  no  less  importance  than  this,  with 
reference  to  Clergy  Reserves,  Legislutive  Coun- 
cil, Seignorial  Tenure,  &c.,  had  been  before 
the  people  for  a  quarter  of  a  century,  and  fully 
discussed  session  after  session  b*^fore  being 
finally  disposed  of  Public  opinion  in  that 
way  was  fully  matured  on  these  questions,  but 
here  they  were  called  on  at  a  few  Tiays'  notice 
to  change  entirely  the  Constitution  we  lived 
under,  and  time  was  not  to  be  allowed  for 
pubUc  opinion  to  be  expressed  on  it.  He  ob- 
jected also  to  the  suspension  of  the  rules  of 
Parliament,  so  as  to  make  the  discussion  take 


14 


place  with  the  Speaker  in  the  chair,  instead  of 
in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  If  there  was  any 
question  on  which  the  House  should  adhere  to 
its  forms,  it  was  a  question  like  this — when 
the  Government  was  so  strong,  so  outrageously 
strong — (laughter) — the  minority  should  be 
protected  by  the  rules  of  the  House  being 
fully  maintained.  He  observed  the  President 
of  the  Council  laugh.  He  had  learned  a  good 
deal  from  that  gentleman  in  standing  up  for 
the  rules  of  the  House.  But  now,  forsooth, 
the  lion  and  lamb  were  lying  together,  and  the 
Government,  knowing  that  they  had  it  in  their 
power,  were  now  to  carry  the  measure  through 
by  brute  force — the  force  of  the  majority. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  there 
was  nothing  irregular  in  his  proposing  that 
discussion  should  go  on  with  the  Speaker 
in  the  chair.  The  suspension  of  the  rules  he 
proposed  was  for  the  protection  of  the  mino- 
rity, by  allowing  each  member  to  speak  and 
Btate  his  objections  as  often  as  he  pleased. 

Hon.  J.  H.  CAMERON  approved  of  the 
proposition  that  discussion  be  conducted  with 
the  Speaker  in  the  chair.  With  reference  to 
the  other  proposition  that  it  should  go  on  from 
day  to  day,  he  suggested  that  after  Attorney 
General  Macdonald  had  stated  his  views  at 
length  on  Monday,  the  debate  should  be  ad- 
journed for  at  least  one  week,  that  people  in 
the  country  might  have  the  views  of  the  Gov- 
ernment fully  before  them,  before  the  debate 
fairly  commenced.  After  that  it  might  go  on 
day  after  day. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  said  he  had  not 
regarded  the  Attorney  General's  proposition 
in  exactly  the  same  light  as  the  member  for 
Cornwall,  but  was  willing  to  accept  it  as  indi- 
cating a  desire  on  the  part  of  the  Government 
to  afford  facilities  for  a  full  and  free  discussion. 
He  thought,  however,  it  would  be  advantage- 
ous if.  after  the  general  discussion  took  place 
with  the  Spesiker  in  the  chair,  the  House  went 
into  Committee  of  the;  Whole,  to  consider  the 
details.  He  tliought  three  days  in  the  wvek 
sufficient  for  the  discussion. 

Hon.  .Mr.  BROW.N  said  tho  iiiciuImt  for 
Chateauguay  had  rightly  apprclmndcd  the 
object  of  the  Attorney  t  Jeneral  when  he  treated 
his  proposition  as  dietat«;d  by  a  desire  to  alford 
the  fullest  opportunity  uf  discus-siiig  ihin  great 
question.  Nothing  could  be  furtlirr  IVom 
their  intention  than  to  hurry  the  uieasuro 
thruugli  by  brute  lorce,  as  charged  by  the 
nicmbi-r  fur  Cornwall.  Altliougli  tin-  Attorney 
General  had  j)roposed  that  the  diseutwion 
Khould  eoiitinuc  day  nWer  day,  lie  had  luit 
suggofclW  for  aiuoiuent  tiiat  the  whole  should 


be  hurried  on  ;  th«  debate  at  any  period 
might  be  adjourned,  if  deemed  necessary,  to 
allow  time  for  the  expression  of  public  opinion. 
There  were  130  members,  and  almost  every 
member  would  desire  to  speak  on  the  question, 
and  he  thought  clearly  the  proper  course  was 
to  devote  every  day  after  hall-past  seven  to 
the  di.stcussion.  to  allow  all  the  members  on 
both  sides  to  stato.  their  views,  that  they  might 
go  to  the  country  and  be  fully  considered. 
He  thought  there  was  a  good  deal  of  force  in 
the  suggestion  of  the  member  for  Peel,  that 
after  the  views  of  the  Gt)vernment  had  been 
stated  distinctly  to  the  House  the  debate  should 
be  adjourned  ibr  a  short  time.  Of  course  the 
Attorney  General  East,  as  "well  as  the  Attorney 
General  West,  would  desire  to  explain  the 
scheme  from  his  point  of  view,  so  would  the 
Minister  of  Finance;  and  probably  he  also  (Mr. 
Brown)  from  his  own  particular  stand  point 
would  like  to  say  something  about  the  scheme. 
After  the  views  of  the  Government  had  thus 
been  put  before  the  House,  there  could  be  no 
difficulty  about  adjourning  the  debate  for  a 
time,  that  the  country  might  distinctly  under- 
stand what  they  were  about. 

After  some  remarks  by  Hon.  Mr.  Cau- 
ciioN  and  Mr.  Dunkin, 

Mr.  POWELL  :isked  whether  the  House 
was  expected  to  adopt  the  scheme  in  it« 
entirety,  or  would  it  be  open  to  the  House  to 
adopt  one  portion  of  it  and  nyect  another 
portion  of  it  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— That  is  not  a  fair 
question. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Perfectly  fair. 

Mr.  POWELL  thought  Mr.  Helton's  re- 
gard for  fair  play  excessive,  when  it  even  im- 
pelled him  to  interfere  on  behalf  of  the  Ad- 
ministration. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  think  it  would  be 
unfair  to  answer  such  a  question. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  he  agreed 
that  Mr.  Cameron's  proposition  w;is  u  reason- 
able one.  The  Government  would,  in  the  first 
place,  lay  their  case  before  the  House,  and 
through  the  press  beibre  the  country,  and 
then  allow  a  reasonable  time  tor  the  country 
to  judge  of  the  cjise  as  presented  by  the  Go- 
vornuieut.  It  would  not,  of  course,  ho  pre- 
Hinted  by  hliuself  alone,  as  the  President  of 
the  Council  had  said.  The  subject  was  so 
large  in  itself  and  comprehended  so  great  a 
variety  of  details,  th:it  he  fancied  all  tlie  mem- 
bers of  the  Govenniieut  would  liiul  it  neecKsary 
to  express  their  views  on  particular  portions 
of  this  groat  seheine.  In  answer  to  tin*  mem- 
ber tor  CarletOD,  th«  Goverumeul  desired  to 


16 


say  that  they  presented  the  scheme  as  a  whole, 
and  would  exert  all  the  influence  they  could 
bi'ing  to  bear  in  the  way  of  argument  to  in- 
duce the  House  to  adopt  the  scheme  without 
alteration,  and  for  the  simple  reason  that  the 
scheme  was  not  one  framed  by  the  Government 
of  Canada,  or  by  the  Government  of  Nova 
Scotia,  but  was  in  the  nature  of  a  treaty  set- 
tled between  the  different  colonies,  each  clause 
of  which  had  been  fully  discussed,  and  which 
had  been  agreed  to  by  a  system  of  mutual 
compromise.  Of  course  it  was  competent  to 
the  House  to  vote  against  the  Address  as  a 
whole,  or  to  adopt  amendments  to  it,  but  if 
they  did  so,  it  would  then  be  for  the  Govern- 
ment to  consider  whether  they  would  press  the 
scheme  further  on  the  attention  of  the  House. 
It  was  obvious  that  unless  the  scheme  were 
adopted  as  it  had  been  settled  between  the 
different  provinces,  if  they  prosecuted  it  fur- 
ther, they  would  have  to  conmience  de  novo, 
and  he  had  no  hesitation  in  expressing  his  be- 
lief that  if  the  scheme  was  not  now  adopted  in 
all  its  principal  details,  as  presented  to  the 
House,  we  could  not  expect  to  get  it  passed 
this  century.  It  had  been  only  in  conse- 
quence of  a  very  happy  concurrence  of  cir- 
cumstances, which  might  not  easily  arise 
again,  that  the  different  provinces  had  been 
enabled  to  arrive  at  the  conclusion  now 
presented,  and  he  should  exceedingly  regret 
in  the  interests  of  Canada  and  of  the  future 
of  British  North  America,  if  anything  should 
delay  beyond  this  year  the  completion  and 
conclusion  of  this  great  scheme.  The  resolu- 
tions on  their  face  bore  evidence  of  compro- 
mise ;  perhaps  not  one  of  the  delegates  from 
any  of  the  provinces  would  have  propounded 
this  scheme  as  a  whole,  but  being  impressed 
with  the  coQviction  that  it  was  highly  desir- 
able with  a  view  to  the  maintenance  of  British 
power  on  this  continent  that  there  should  be 
Confederation  and  a  junction  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, the  consideration  of  the  details  was 
entered  upon  in  a  spirit  of  compromise.  Not 
one  member  of  the  Canadian  Government  had 
his  own  views  carried  out  in  all  the  details, 
and  it  was  the  same  with  the  other  delegates. 
But  after  a  full  discussion  of  sixteen  days,  and 
after  the  various  details  had  been  voted  on, 
the  resolutions  as  a  whole  were  agreed  to  by 
a  unanimous  vote  ;  every  one  of  the  delegates, 
whatever  his  view  to  any  of  the  details, 
being  satisfied  to  adopt  the  whole  scheme  as 
adopted  by  a  majority  for  each  individual  re- 
solution, and  to  press  it  upon  his  own  Legis- 
lature as  the  only  practicable  scheme  that 
^oould  be  carried ;    such  being   the  case,  he 


trusted  tho  Government  would  have  the  sup- 
port of  a  very  large  majority  of  the  House  in 
carrying  the  scheme  just  as  it  stood,  mem- 
bers sacrificing  their  individual  opinions  as  to 
particular  details,  if  satisfied  with  the  Govern- 
ment that  the  scheme  as  a  whole  was  for  the 
benefit  ard  prosperity  of  the  people  of  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  would  like  to  inquire 
whether,  according  to  the  course  of  proceed- 
ing proposed  by  the  Attorney  General,  the 
several  resolutions  of  the  Conference  would  be 
submitted  separately  to  the  House  as  affirma- 
tive propositions  ? 

Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  "  no." 
The  proposition  submitted  to  the  House  is 
that  an  Address  be  presented  to  Her  Majesty, 
praydng  that  a  bill  [should  be  passed  based  on 
these  resolutions.  All  amendments  might  be 
moved  to  that  one  resolution.  It  would  be 
the  same  thing,  in  fact,  as  to  move  them  upon 
each  resolution  separately. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  held  that  the  Govern- 
ment ought  to  ask  for  an  affirmative  vote  from 
the  House  on  each  of  these  resolutions.  They 
had  been  prepared  and  passed  by  a  self-consti- 
tuted body,  without  the  House  or  the  people 
ever  having  been  consulted  on  the  subject. 
Unless  the  House  were  a  sham  altogether, 
the  least  reference  that  could  be  paid  to  it 
would  be  to  obtain  a  direct  affirmation  of  each 
of  the  basis  on  which  the  projected  Constitu- 
tion which  was  hereafter  to  govern  us  were 
to  be  founded. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON  wished  information 
as  to  whether  the  scheme  was  to  be  discussed 
as  a  whole,  or  whether  there  would  be  an  op- 
portunity given  to  consider  each  part  of  it 
separately  ?  There  were  part  of  the  resolu- 
tions about  which  there  might  be  some  mis- 
understanding and  difference  of  opinion,  as 
for  example  those  clauses  by  one  of  which  it 
was  stated  that  the  civil  laws  of  the  country 
were  to  be  under  the  control  of  the  local 
governments,  and  by  the  other  of  which  the 
law  of  marriage  was  placed  under  the  control 
of  the  General  Government.  The  law  of  mar- 
riage pervaded  the  whole  civil  code,  and  he 
wanted  to  know  how  it  could  be  placed  under 
a  different  legislature  from  that  which  was  to 
regulate  the  rest  of  the  civil  law.  He  did 
not,  however,  see  why  an  affirmative  vote  on 
each  resolution  would  enable  the  House  to 
pronounce  with  more  freedom  on  these  details 
than  the  course  proposed  by  the  Attorney 
General, 

Hon.  a.  a.  DORION  said  the  member  for 
Montmorency  misapprehended  the  scope  of  the 
objection  made  by  the  member  for  Chateau- 


16 


guay.  That  objection  wafl  that  the  freedom 
of  Parliaijicnt  would  be  better  consulted,  and 
more  opportunity  would  be  given  to  learn  the 
sense  of  the  House  by  the  different  clauses  of 
the  Address  being  moved  seriatim,  in  the  same 
way  as  supplies  were  voted.  This  was  the 
manner  in  which  the  Irish  Union  Act  had 
been  passed,  as  well  as  the  bill  to  change  the 
Goverumout  of  India,  the  Canadian  Union  Act 
of  1840,  Legislative  Council  Act,  and  other 
important  meiisures.  This  was  the  uniform 
course  of  Parliament,  and  there  was  no  pre- 
cedent to  be  found  for  any  contrary  mode  of 
proceeding.  He  thought  the  course  proposed 
on  the  Opposition  side  of  the  House  the  most 
reasonable — that  there  should  be  a  general  dis- 
cussion on  the  scheme,  in  which  Members  of 
the  Government  should  state  their  views  ;  that 
then  there  should  be  an  adjournment  for  a 
week  to  enable  the  pubUc  to  consider  these 
speeches,  and  that  then  the  subject  should  be 
discussed  three  whole  days  each  week  till  dis- 
posed of.  This  would,  in  fact,  be  devoting 
more  time  to  it  than  the  plan  that  was  pro- 
posed by  the  President  of  the  Council,  and 
would  secure  more  fair,  open  and  full  oppor- 
tunity for  discussion. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  could  under- 
stand  the   object   of  the   hon.    member    for 
Hochelaga.      That   hon.   gentleman   was  op- 
posed to  Confederation,  and  the  course  he  pro- 
posed wat;  just  that  which  was  calculated  to 
throw  the  scheme  to  another  Parliament  and 
till  another  conference  was  held,  so  that  Con- 
federation might  not  be  effected  till  the  day  of 
judgiiicnt.     i'hese  resolutions  were  in  the  na- 
ture <ji  a  treaty,  and  if  not  adopted  in  their 
entiif  ty,  the   proceedings  would   have   to  be 
com:iicnc<!d  de  rujvo.     If  each  province  under- 
took to  change  the  details  of  the  scheme,  there 
would  be  no  end  to  the  discussions  and  the 
conl'erenccH  which  would  have  to  bo  held. — 
Then,  as  to  having  a  debate  tliree  days  a  week, 
it  would  extend  tlie  session  beyond  all  bounds, 
especially   as  after  the  Confederatioij  scheme 
was  disposed  of,  there  would  be  a  measure  for 
organizing  the  local  governments  under  that 
scheme. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON -Why  not  bring  that 
measure  down  with  this  ? 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONAIiDsnid  that  they 
were  two  ditlereut  propositions,  and  they  could 
be  only  dealt  with  separaU-ly.  If  the  House 
declared,  l)y  its  vote,  tliat  Confederation  was 
desirable,  then  it  would  be  proper  to  eousider 
the  nature  of  the  local  goveniinentrt  ;  but  if  it 
failed  to  aceept  tlie  principle  of  Confederation, 
then  it  would  be  «Mitirely  unulutw  to  bring  up 


the  other  measure.  Besides,  to  bring  down 
both  measures  at  once  would  make  confusion 
worse  confounded,  because  members  would,  of 
necessity,  introduce  their  views  upon  local 
goveiTimentsinto  the  consideration  of  the  Con- 
federation question. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  coramentr 
ed  upon  the  declaration  that  the  resolu- 
tions of  the  Conference  were  tantamount  to 
a  treaty,  and  asked  by  what  authority  the 
Government  had  undertaken  to  negotiate  a 
treaty.  He  contended  that  all  forms  of  the 
House  should  be  strictly  observed,  so  that 
there  should  be  no  infringement  upon  the 
rights  of  the  minority. 

Mr.  THOMAS  FERGUSON  asked  whe- 
ther it  was  the  intention  of  the  Government  to 
carry  this  measure  into  force  without  submit- 
ting it  to  the  people  ? 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  he  could 
answer  his  honorable  friend  at  once.  If  this 
measure  received  the  support  of  the  House, 
there  would  be  no  necessity  of  going  to  the 
people.  If,  however,  the  measure  were  de- 
feated, it,  would  be  for  the  Government  to 
consider  whether  there  should  not  be  an  ap- 
peal to  the  country.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) 

Mr.  SCATCHERD  asked  whether  it  was 
intended  to  make  any  amendments  in  the 
scheme  to  meet  the  suggestions  contained  in 
the  despatch  of  the  Colonial  Secretary. 

Atty.  Gen.    MACDONALD.   in    reply, 
said  of  course  he  could  not  answer  what  the 
policy  of  the  Imperial  Government  might  be ; 
all  he  could  say  w;is  tliis,  that  the   represen- 
tatives of  the  various   colonial  governments, 
after  this  treaty  had  been  made,  agreed  to  go 
home  and  press  upon  the  legislatures  of  their 
respective  produces  this  measure  as  a  whole, 
and  to  pi'esent  in   all  the  colonial  legislatures 
addresses  identical  in    their   nature   to    Her 
Majesty,  asking  Her  to  pass  an    Act   based 
upon  these  resolutions,  such  address  being  an 
expression  of  the  deliberate    opinion   of  the 
colonies.     It  would  then  become  the  duty  of 
the  Imperial  Government  and  Legislature  to 
net  as  they  pleased  in  the  mattt^r.     He  hoped 
and  believed  they  would  not  niake  any  altera- 
tions in  the  scheme  adopt^nl  by  the  Confer- 
ence.     He  was  quite  satisfied  that  if  the  local 
legislatures  asked  them  to  pass  the  scheme  as 
it  stood,  they  would  leave  us  to  be  the  best 
judges  of  our  own  aflairs  and  carry  the  mea- 
sure through. 

Hon.  .Mil.  HOLTON  said  ho  had  given 
notice  the  other  day  of  throe  questions  he  in- 
tfudiMl  to  p\it  to  the  Government  before  going 


17 


into  Committee  of  Supply,  but  as  the  present 
was  an  equally  favorable  opportunity,  he 
trusted  there  would  be  no  objection  to  Ms  put- 
ting them  now. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— No,  go  on. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  said  the  first  question 
had  a  reference  to  the  subject  to  which  the 
Attorney  General  had  alluded  in  the  course  of 
his  remarks  just  now.  It  was,  whether  it  was 
the  intention  of  the  Government  to  bring  down 
their  projects  for  local  constitutions  for  the 
two  sections  of  Canada  before  inviting  the 
House  to  proceed  with  the  discussion  of  this 
question   of  Confederation.     The    honorable 

fentleman  had  already  answered  that  question 
y  saying  it  was  not  the  intention  of  the  Gov- 
ernment to  introduce  this  measure,  and  had 
given  reasons  for  this  course.     Upon   these 
reasons  he  (Hon.  Mr.  Holton)  desired  to  say 
one  word.  He  maintained  that  the  question  now 
before  the  House  was,    should   they   revolu- 
tionize the  country,  should  they  revolutionize 
the   government   of  the   country?       (Hear, 
hear.)     That  was  undoubtedly  the  question, 
and  he  would  like  to  know  distinctly  whether 
the  form  of  the   proposed  new   government, 
local  as  well  as  general,  formed  part  of  the 
same  scheme  ?     He  felt  that  the  House  could 
not  be  in  a  position  to  consider  the  proposed 
forms  of  the  Constitution  until  they  had  before 
them,  at  least  in  a  general  way,  the  forms  of 
government  which  were  to  obtain  between  the 
two  sections  of  the  province,  of  the  union  of 
which  a  dissolution  was  to  be  wrought  by  the 
measure  before   the  House.      Then   another 
question  which  he  had  proposed  to  put  had 
reference  to  the  educational  system  of  Lower 
Canada.     The  Minister  of  Finance,  in  a  sjjeech 
at  Sherbrooke,  had  promised   that  the  Gov- 
ernment would  introduce  a  bill  to  amend  the 
school  laws  of  Lower  Canada.     The  honorable 
gentleman  must  be   aware   that  this  was  a 
question  on  which  there  was  a  great  deal  of 
feeling  in  this  section  of  the  province  amongst 
the  English-speaking,  or  the  Protestant  class, 
of  the  population .    He  did  not  like  to  introduce 
anything  of  a  religious  character  into  discus- 
sions of  this  House,  but  in  debating  the  great 
changes  which  it  was  proposed  to  elfect  in  our 
system  of  government,  the  effect  of  them  upon 
that  class  to  which  he  referred  must  be  con- 
sidered.    Among  that  class  there  was  no  phase 
or  feature  of  these  threatened  changes  which 
excited  so  much  alarm  as  this  very  question  of 
education.      Well,  the  Minister  of  Finance 
had  said,  with  great  solemnity,  as  having  the 
authority  of  his  colle^ues  for  it,  that  this 
session  the  Government  would  bring  down 


amendm^ita  to  the  school  laws  of  Lower  Can- 
ada, which  they  proposed  enacting  into  law 
before  a  change  of  government  should  take 
place,  and  which  would  become  a  permanent 
settlement  of  that  question.  The  question  he 
then  desired  to  put  was  whether  they  intended 
to  submit  these  amendments  before  they  asked 
the  House  to  pass  finally  upon  the  other 
scheme  of  Confederation,  and  if  so,  to  state 
when  the  House  might  look  for  that  measure, 
as  it  would  undoubtedly  exercise  very  consid- 
erable influence  upon  the  discussion  of  the 
Confederation  scheme,  and  probably  in  the  last 
resort  from  several  members  from  Lower  Can- 
ada. (Hear,  hear.)  Then  the  third  question 
of  which  he  had  given  notice  had  reference  to 
the  Intercolonial  Railway.  It  was  a  novelty 
that,  perhaps,  might  not  be  found  in  the  con- 
stitution of  any  country,  to  introduce  a  pro- 
vision for  the  construction  of  a  railroad,  canals, 
turnpike  roads  or  other  public  works.  (Laugh- 
ter.) But  the  novelty  existed  in  this  case, 
and  we  are  told  that  a  part  of  the  proposed 
Constitution  was  to  build  the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  as  to  the  usefulness  of  which  there 
had  been  a  great  difference  of  opinion  amongst 
members  of  the  House  and  in  the  country. 

After  the  dinner  recess, 

Hox.  Mr.  HOLTON,  continuing  his  re- 
marks, said  it  appeared  now  to  be  proposed  to 
make  the  construction  of  a  railway  part  of  the 
Constitution  of  the  country.  The  President 
of  the  Council,  who  had  formerly  strongly  op- 
posed the  Intercolonial  Railway,  had  now  be- 
come so  enamoured  of  it  and  its  adjuncts  that 
he  was  reported  to  have  declared  in  a  speech 
at  Toronto,  that  rather  than  not  have*  those 
adjuncts,  to  wit,  the  union  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, which  he  had  also  previously  opposed 
as  vigorously  as  the  railway  itself,  he  would 
consent  to  building  six  intercolonial  rail- 
ways. (Laughter.)  He  thought  the  House  was 
entitled  to  know  what  was  to  be  done  with  re- 
ference to  that  railway  before  they  were  asked 
to  consider  the  g\'eat  question  of  which  it 
formed  a  part.  He  desired  a. so  some  infor- 
mation as  to  the  position  of  the  North- West 
question  on  which  the  President  of  the  Coun- 
cil had  always  taken  strong  grounds,  main- 
taining that  Canada  had  a  territorial  right 
extending  over  all  that  region.  He  took  it 
for  granted  the  President  of  the  Council  still 
maintained  liis  position,  but  he  wished  to 
know  from  him  authoritatively  the  manner 
in  which  the  Government  proposed  to  deal 
with  the  question.  He  desired,  also,  some 
information  on  the  subject  of  the  defences, 
and  what  wis  to  be  the  measure  of  our  oon- 


18 


tributions  under  the  proposed  scheme  for  that 
important  object. 

Atty.  Gex.  MACDONALD  said  the 
Government  would  cheerfully  give  aa  answer 
to  Hon.  Mr.  Holton's  que.stions.  As  to  the 
local  constitutions  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
when  subordinate  provinces  of  the  Confedera- 
ation,  Government  proposed  to  submit  to  the 
House  a  scheme  or  schemes  to  be  considered 
by  members  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
respecting  the  constitutions  of  their  respective 
governments.  But  the  action  with  regard  to 
them  must  be  the  action  of  Parliament.  That 
action  would  only  be  asked  after  the  Con- 
federation scheme  was  adopted,  for  until  it 
was  settled  that  there  was  to  be  Confederation, 
it  was  idle  to  discuss  what  should  be  the  con- 
stitutions of  the  sevoral  provinces.  As  to  the 
school  question,  it  had  been  announced  by  Hon. 
Mr.  Galt,  at  Sherbrooke,  that  before  Confeder- 
ation took  place,  this  Parliament  would  be  asked 
to  consider  a  measure  which  he  hoped  would  be 
satisfactory  to  all  classes  of  the  community. 
There  was  a  good  deal  of  apprehension  in 
Lower  Canada  on  the  part  of  the  minority 
there  as  to  the  possible  effect  of  Confederation 
on  their  rights  on  the  subject  of  education, 
and  it  was  the  intention  of  the  Government,  if 
Parliament  approved  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion, to  lay  before  the  House  this  session, 
certain  amendments  to  the  school  law,  to 
operate  as  a  sort  of  guarantee  against  any  in- 
fringement by  the  majority  of  the  rights  of 
the  minority  in  this  matter. 

Hon.  a.  a.  DORION— Will  it  apply  to 
both  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  ? 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  he  be- 
lieved, as  regarded  Upper  Canada,  the  matter 
would  remain  in  statu  quo,  as  the  present  law 
there  was  quite  satisfactory  to  the  minority. 
As  regarded  the  Intercolonial  Railroad,  the 
resolutions  shewed  precisely  what  was  the  in- 
tention of  the  Government  in  that  matter.  The 
railroad  was  not,  as  stated  by  Hon.  Mr.HoLTON, 
a  portion  of  the  Constitution,  but  wah  one  of 
the  conditions  on  which  the  Lower  Provinces 
agreed  to  enter  into  the  constitutional  agree- 
ment with  us.  The  North-West  question  he 
would  leave  in  the  hands  of  the  President  of 
the  Council,  who  understood  it  thoroughly, 
and  could,  no  doubt,  give  Hon.  Mr.  IIolton  a 
satisfactory  answer.  With  respect  to  the  de- 
fences of  tlie  province,  they  were  now  tlie  sub- 
ject of  negotiations  with  the  Imperial  (Jovcrn- 
ment,  and  the  fullest  information  would  be 
given  to  tlie  House  on  that  subjoet.  Ho  might 
mention  that  the  Maritime  Provinces,  recog- 
nizing the  jtoculiar  position  of  Canada  geogra- 


phically, and  its  danger  in  case  of  hostilities, 
had  most  cordially  ;\greed  that  any  sum  this 
Parliament  might  vote  for  the  defence  of  Ca- 
nada, they  would  undertake  their  share  of. 

Mr.  WALLBRTDGE  a.sked  if  he  was  to 
understand  that  a  guarantee  was  to  be  given  in 
the  Constitution  of  the  Federal  Government  to 
Roman  Catholic  separate  schools  ? 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I  only  said 
this,  that  before  Confederation  is  adopted,  the 
Government  would  bring  down  a  mea.sure  to 
amend  the  school  law  of  Lower  Canada,  pro- 
tecting the  rights  of  the  minority,  and  which, 
at  the  same  time,  I  believe,  would  be  satisfac- 
tory to  the  majority,  who  have  always  hitherto 
shown  respect  for  the  rights  of  the  minority, 
and,  no  doubt,  will  continue  to  do  so. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN  said  Hon.  Mr.  Holton 
had  done  no  injustieo  to  him  in  supposing  ho 
held  now  precisely  the  same  sentiments  on  the 
North- West  question  he  formerly  did.  He  be- 
lieved it  of  vast  importance  that  that  region 
should  be  brought  within  the  limits  of  civiliza- 
tion, and  vigorous  measures  had  been  taken  to 
ascertain  what  could  be  done  with  that  view. 
It  was  not  long  since  he  returned  from  Eng- 
land, where  the  matter  was  very  fully  discussed, 
and  he  had  not  as  yet  had  an  opportunity  of 
submitting  the  thing  so  fully  to  the  Council 
that  a  decision  could  be  had  ujxtn  it.  but  he 
had  no  doubt  that  in  a  very  short  time  they 
would  be  able  to  communicate  tn  the  House 
ample  information  as  to  their  intentions. 

The  discussion  was  then  made  regular  by 
Atty.  Gen.  Macdonald  formally  proposing 
that  an  Address  be  presented  to  Her  Majesty. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  said  that  the  uni- 
versal law  of  Parliament  vrith  respect  either 
to  bills  or  addres-ses  looking  to  the  disposal  of 
public  property  or  funds,  or  additions  to  the 
burdens  of  the  country,  w:ia  that  the  measure 
must  originate  in  Committee  of  the  Whole. 
'J'his  Confederation  scheme  disjxised  of  the 
whole  assets  of  the  country,  and  established 
burdens  which  were  to  bo  applied  to  the  pur- 
poses of  the  provinces  of  New  Brunswick 
and  Newfoundland,  besides  paying  eighty 
cents  per  head  ol"  po|iula(ion  to  all  the  various 
provinces.  This  appropriation  of  property 
indeed  ran  threughout  the  scheme.  Not  only 
so,  but  the  usage  on  alt  si  ilar  occasions  wiis 
to  introduce  the  measure  in  Committee  of  the 
Whole.  The  act  of  union  between  Knglund 
and  Ireland  was  originated  in  this  way,  and 
m  was  our  own  actof  uni  n  in  the  legislature 
of  Upper  Canada  under  the  miinagement  of 
Mr.  PouLKT  Thompson,  who  was  well  known 
to  be  an  able  English  parliamentarian.     The 


19 


same  course  was  taken  on  our  own   Reform 
Bill  under  the  HrvcKS  Government. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said  that 
any  measure  appropriating  money  must  origi- 
nate in  Committee  of  the  Whole,  but  it  was 
otherwise  with  an  Address  to  the  Crown,  ask- 
ing to  recommend  a  grant  of  money.  This 
was  an  address  asking  the  Crown  to  make  a 
great  constitutional  change.  Now,  supposing 
that  it  was  asking  to  have  the  Constitution 
done  away  with  altogether,  must  such  an  ad- 
dress originate  in  committee  ?  Clearly  not. 
The  money  to  be  appropriated  was  to  be 
granted  by  legislatures  which  did  not  yet 
exist. 

Hon.  a.  a.  DORION— There  is  nothing 
more  plain  than  that,  according  to  the  stand- 
ing order  of  the  House  of  Commons,  any 
measure  appropriating  money  or  any  Address 
to  the  Crown  asking  for  a  grant  of  money, 
or  that  expenses  may  be  incurred,  mu3t  origi- 
nate in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  Our  own 
80th  rule  was  in  a  similar  sense,  setting  forth 
that  motion?  tending  to  grant  an  aid  or  to 
make  any  charge  upon  the  people  must  origi- 
nate in  committee.  Now,  surely  these  reso- 
lutions tended  to  create  a  charge  upon  the 
people.  Among  other  things  they  bound  the 
country  to  make  a  railway. 

Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— That  will 
be  made  by  the  Confederate  Government,  not 
by  this  Government.  We  are  not  granting 
any  money. 

Hon.  a.  a.  DORION— Nor  do  you  ever 
grant  money  when  you  ask  the  Crown  to  re- 
commend the  grant,  since  the  Crown  may  re- 
fuse ;  surely  if  a  matter  involving  $5  or  §50 
must  originate  in  committee,  so  large  a  mat- 
ter as  this  must  do  so. 

Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  spoke  of  Hon.  Mr. 
Dorion's  remarks  as  absurd,  as  not  a  farthing  of 
money  was  being  appropriated.  It  was  quite  true 
the  rule  of  the  Imperial  Parliament  might  seem 
to  go  as  far  as  Hon.  Mr.  DoRiON  said,  but  we  had 
no  such  rule.  Ours  was  founded  on  the  Union 
Act,  which  merely  said  that  no  appropriation 
could  be  made,  except  after  a  Message  from 
His  Excellency,  which  must  be  referred  to  a 
committee.  The  Union  Act  was  our  law,  and 
to-morrow  the  British  Parliament,  with  the 
sanction  of  the  Queen,  might  abolish  the  Con- 
stitution. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  Attorney  General  was 
the  very  Bayard  of  defenders  of  every  little 
corporation  which  had  received  its  charter 
from  that  legislature ;  that  was  of  every  cor- 
poration or  company  which  enjoyed  his  favor, 
from  none  of  which  he  would  take  away  the 


smallest  part  of  the  privileges  ever  conferred 
upon  them,  and  yet  he  asserted  that  the  whole 
privileges  and  rights  of  this  great  colony  could 
be  taken  away  to-moiTOW  by  the  Imperial  Par- 
liament. He  (Mr.  Dcnkin)  denied  that  all 
our  rights  were  held  at  pleasure,  but,  if  they 
were,  that  had  nothing  to  do  with  the  matter. 
If  we  were  precluded  from  giving  away  small 
sums  of  money,  except  in  a  particular  way, 
surely  we  were  debarred  from  giving  away  all 
our  rights.  The  British  Parliament  could  de- 
clare that  a  man  is  a  woman,  and  he  must 
thereafter  legally  be  called  a  woman,  but  that 
did  not  make  him  one. 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT  said  clearly  no  charge 
was  put  on  the  people  by  this  Address  ;  not  a 
penny  could  be  taken  out  of  the  public  chest 
in  consequence  of  it.  He  thought  also  the 
spirit  of  the  rules  was  no  more  infringed  than 
their  letter,  by  taking  the  course  proposed  by 
the  Attorney  General  West ;  because,  if  the 
Address  passed,  the  Imperial  Act  would  refer 
again  to  the  people  tlie  power  of  disposing  of 
this  property  by  their  votes. 

Mr.  SPEAKER  decided  as  follows  :— 

The  honorable  member  for  Chateauguay  has 
submitted  that  the  motion  is  not  in  order,  *'  inas- 
much as  the  proposed  Address  prays  the  Crown 
to  recommend  to  the  Imperial  Parliament  the 
passage  of  an  Act  laying  new  burdens  on  the 
people  of  this  Province,  and  making  dispositions 
as  to  the  public  property  and  money  of  this 
Province,  the  law  of  Parliament  requires  that  it 
should  be  founded  on  Resolutions  originated  in 
Committee  of  the  whole  House."  Now,  the  4th 
clause  of  the  14th  section  of  the  Consolidated 
Statutes  ot  Canada,  "  The  Legislative  Assembly 
shall  not  originate  or  pass  any  Vote,  Resolution 
or  Bill  for  the  appropriation  of  any  part  of  the 
said  Consolidated  Revenue  Fund,  or  of  any  other 
tax  or  impost,  to  any  purpose  which  has  not  been 
first  recommended  by  a  Message  of  the  Governor 
to  the  Legislative  Assembly,  during  the  Session 
in  which  such  Vote,  Resolution  or  Bill  is  passed  ;" 
and  the  88th  Rule  of  this  House,  "  If  any  motion 
be  made  in  the  House  for  any  public  aid  or  charge 
upon  the  people,  the  consideration  and  debate 
thereof  may  not  be  presently  entered  upon,  but 
shall  be  adjourned  till  such  further  day  as  the 
House  shall  think  fit  to  appoint;  and  then  it 
shall  be  referred  to  a  Committee  of  the  whole 
House  before  any  Resolution  or  Vote  of  the 
House  do  pass  thereupon,"  which  seems  to  be 
based  thereon,  refer  to  Resolutions  or  to  an 
Address  upon  which  some  future  action  of  this 
House  is  to  be  based.  I  fail  to  see  in  this  motion 
that  the  action  of  this  House  is  to  be  involved 
any  further  after  passing  this  Resolution.  As 
this  matter  was  discussed  before  I  left  the  chair, 
at  six  o'clock,  I  took  occasion  to  put  in  writing 
my  opinion  upon  the  subject.  I  will  read  :  "  The 
motion  is  for  an  Addreea  to  Her  Majesty,  in  which 


20 


the  Resolutions  on  Confederation  of  the  Provinces 
are  set  out.  How  does  this  differ  from  an  Addresa 
moved  to  His  Excellency,  which  always  comes 
on  motion  upon  a  two  days'  notice  given  as  in 
this  case  ?  I  cannot  see  how,  as  a  point  of  Order, 
I  can  treat  the  matter  other  than  as  in  the  ordinary 
c:ise  of  an  Address.  The  argument  is  that  it  will 
be  inconvenient  so  to  discuss  it.  That  is  not 
addressed  to  a  question  of  Order,  but  to  one  of 
convenience.  The  case  cited  by  the  h(>norable 
member  for  Chateaucruay  of  Resolutions  upon 
the  question  of  a  Hill  for  the  Government  of 
India  was  not  one  of  Resolutions  for  an  Address, 
but  of  Resolutions  simply,  containing-  (he  pro- 
posed principles  of  the  Bill  intendf^d  to  be  intro- 
duced. It  is  not  pretended  here  that  this  House 
has  any  ri;(ht  to  pass  such  a  Bill,  or  that  it  is 
intended  to  present  one  on  that  subject  here.  The 
reasons  why  it  is  convenient  to  discuss  matters  in 
the  form  of  a  Resolution  on  which  a  Bill  is  after- 
wards to  be  introduced,  is  that  Resolutions  more 
easily  admit  of  alteration.  The  Government 
have  expressed  their  determination  not  to  admit 
of  any  alterations  in  these  Resolutioni.  Thus  it 
is  obvious  that  the  same  reasons  for  going  into 
Committee  do  not  hold.  The  member  who 
moves  an  Address  can  force  the  vote  on  his 
motion  in  the  manner  he  has  put  it,  unless  the 
form  of  it  be  changed  by  amendment,  and  this 
appears  to  be  the  only  course  open  here.  In 
truth  the  word  'Resolutions'  might  very  well 
have  been  omitted  altoirethcr  from  this  motion. 
Whatever  might  have  been  the  result  on  a  mere 
question  of  convenience,  it  is  certain  that  the 
Speaker  does  not  decide  that  matter.  His  duties 
are  to  preserve  order  and  decorum,  and  to  decide 
questions  of  Order." 

Attt.  Gen.  MACPONALD  moved 
that  the  debate  be  adjourned  and  made 
the  first  order  for  Monday  after  half-past 
seven  o'clock,  p.m. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  raise  1  the  objection 
that  this  motion  could  not  be  put  without 
two  days'  notice 

Attt.  Okn.  MACDONALD  said  if  this 
was  the  sort  of  tactics  to  be  pursued,  and  an 
attempt  made  to  eoibarrass  the  Government 
at  every  step,  he  mast  withdraw  the  conces- 
sion made  to  thf.  member  for  IVel,  and  would 
giv<!  notice  thai  ho  would  move  on  Tuesday, 
that  thj  debate  be  coutinui.d  from  day  to 
day  until  the  .\ddre83  was  finally  adopted  or 
rejected  by  the  IIoufc. 

After  some  discussion,  Hon.  Mr.  HoLTON 
with<lrew  his  obj  ction,  and  Atty.  Gen. 
Macdonald  his  notice. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL 


Monday,  February  6,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  said  that,  with 
the  permission  of  the  honorable  member  who 
had  the  floor  (Hon.  Mr.  Curriz),  he  would 
offer  a  few  remarks  upon  one  portion  of  tho 
scheme  of  Confederation,  to  which  allusion 
had  been  specially  made  in  the  House,  and 
which,  to  a  limited  extent,  had  occupied  the 
attention  of  the  country.  He  referred  to  tho 
proposed  constitution  of  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil under  that  scheme ;  and  in  offering  the 
reasons  which  had  led  the  Canadian  Govern- 
ment and  the  other  members  of  the  Confer- 
ence, which,  as  honorable  members  knew,  was 
composed  of  the  leading  men  in  tho  legisla- 
tures of  the  several  provinces  —  the  leading 
men  in  opposition  as  well  as  the  leading  men  in 
office — to  decide  as  they  had  done,  he  begged 
the  House  to  believe  that  the  decision  had 
not  been  arrived  at  hastily,  but  iifter  prolonged 
and  anxious  discussion,  and  after  a  full  and 
careful  consideration  of  the  subject.  It  was 
not  to  be  supposed  that  the  Government  of 
Canada  had  itself  laid  down  the  scheme  of 
the  constitution  as  embraced  in  the  resolutions 
on  the  table  of  the  House.  Honorable  gentle- 
men must  not  misunderstand  him.  He  did 
not  mean  to  say  that  the  Government  did  not 
heartily  concur  in  and  adopt  the  scheme,  but 
that  it  was  not  its  work  alone,  but  that  of  the 
delegates  from  the  other  provinces  as  well. 
It  was  the  result  of  deliberation,  acoommo- 
dation  and  compromise.  When  it  became 
necessary  for  the  Government  to  press  the 
resolutions,  he  trusted  honorable  members 
would  not  suppose  that  they  did  so  out  of 
that  love  which  people  have  for  the  creation 
of  their  own  intellect,  but  would  remember 
they  were  the  joint  production  of  the  gentle- 
men t^)  whom  he  alluded,  and  that  any  per- 
tinacity on  his  part  arose  from  a  sense  of  the 
sacrifices  they  had  made  to  secure  an  agree- 
ment, and  tlie  difficulties  which  any  failure 
now  would  create.  He  felt  it  had  been  im- 
possible for  the  Conference  to  arrive  at  any 
other  understanding,  and  he  only  wished  that 
those  who  looked  with  dislavor  ujvm  their 
plan,  could  have  witnos.sed  the  anxious  debutes 
held  at  Charlottct<iwn  and  Quebec  before  it 
was  finally  settled.  The  result  arrived  Ht 
would,  he  hoped,  promote  tho  welfare  of  the 
jirovinoes  interest<'d,  and  be  remembered  with 
gratitude  by  their  inhabitjuits  many  long  yearn 
hencu.  |Aud  suppusing  this  Cliamber  and 
the  other^were  to^come  to  a  different  opinion 


21 


and  reject  the  resolutions,  what  would 
be  the  effect  ?  The  Bacrifices  and  com- 
promises submitted  to  by  the  representa- 
tives of  the  several  provinces  would  go  for 
nothing ;  the  efforts  of  the  eminent  men  who 
had  put  aside  personal  and  party  differences 
to  accomplish  what  they  deemed  a  great  and 
good  work  would  be  futile  ;  and  yet,  by  such 
men  only  cotdd  such  a  scheme  have  been 
devised  and  matured.  Considering  then  the 
earnest  efforts  made  to  secure  this  agreement, 
and  the  improbability  that,  if  rejected,  any 
other  could  be  attempted  with  better  hope  of 
success,  he  felt  he  had  a  right  to  ask  the  House 
to  give  the  subject  a  fair,  patient,  and  favor- 
able consideration.  If  an  amendment  were 
proposed  here,  and  another  there,  and  espe- 
cially if  the  provision  respecting  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  House  were  changed,  it  was  pretty 
certain  that  the  whole  thing  would  miscarry, 
for  he  well  knew  that  in  respect  of  this  point 
the  legislatures  of  the  Lower  Provinces  would 
come  to  a  different  conclusion.  If  the  elective 
principle  were  insisted  upon  in  Canada,  and 
its  Government  bound  over  to  maintain  it, 
even  though  another  Conference  were  called, 
no  agreement  could  be  expected,  for  as  he  had 
already  said,  the  delegates  from  the  other 
provinces  would  be  sure  to  be  charged  with 
exactly  different  instructions.  And  as  of  this 
particular  point,  so  of  a  hundred  others,  until 
it  would  be  utterly  impossible  again  to  arrive 
at  anything  like  unanimity.  As  the  honorable 
member  for  Brock  had  so  well  said  on  a  previous 
evening,  any  failure  now  would  be  extremely 
damaging  to  our  credit  abroad.  It  was  well 
kown  that  the  fact  of  our  public  men  having 
thrown  aside  their  political  partizanship  for 
the  ptirpose  of  advancing  the  welfare  of  the 
country,  the  holding  of  the  Conference,  and 
the  agreement  secured,  had  already  done  us 
a  great  deal  of  good  at  home.  But  not 
onlv  would  this  first  fruit  of  the  work  be 
forfeited,  but  an  injury  more  than  correspond- 
ingly great  would  follow.  (Hear,  hear.)  [The 
honorable  member  elaborated  this  idea  at  some 
length  with  the  view  of  showing  the  beneficial 
effect  the  adoption  of  the  scheme  of  Confed- 
eration had  produced,  and  the  disasterous 
consequence-!  which  its  rejection  by  Parlii- 
ment  must  inevitably  entail.]  He  did  not 
propose  to  follow  his  honorable  friend  the 
Premier  in  the  discussion  of  the  merits  of  the 
project  as  a  whole ;  the  able  manner  in  which 
that  honorable  member  had  presented  it  could 
not  but  have  commended  itself  to  every  can- 
did mind.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  (Hon.  Mr.  CAMP- 
BELL) would,  however,  take  up  the  point  to 


which  he  had  alluded  at  the  commencement, 
and  from  which  he  had  for  a  moment  digressed, 
and  give  the  reasons  which  had  induced  the 
Conference  to  determine  as  they  had  done, 
upon  the  constitution  of  the  Upper  House. 
And  the  main  reason  was  to  give  each  of  the 
provinces  adequate  security  for  the  protection 
of  its  local  interests,  a  protection  which  it 
was  feared  might  not  be  found  in  a  House 
where  the  representation  was  based  upon  num- 
bers only,  as  would  be  the  case  in  the  General 
Assembly.  The  number ^of  representatives 
to  the  Legislative  Council  under  the  Federal 
constitution  would  be  limited,  and  they  would 
be  appointed  for  life  instead  of  elf  cted  by  the 
people.  For  the  purpose  of  securing  equality 
in  that  House,  the  Confederation  would  be 
divided  into  two  sections,  viz. :  Upper  Canada, 
Lower  Canada,  and  the  Maritime  Pro^^nce3, 
and  each  of  these  sections  would  send  twenty- 
four  members  to  the  House.  In  Upper  Ca- 
nada, as  had  been  stated  lately  by  an  honor- 
able member,  the  population  has  increased 
very  rapidly,  and  would  probably  go  on  in- 
creasins'  in  a  much  larcer  ratio  tuan  that  of 
Lower  Canada  or  the  other  provinces,  and  if 
the  Legislative  Council  were  elective,  the  time 
might  come  when  the  people  of  that  section 
would  fancy  themselve  entitled  to  an  increased 
representation  in  the  Council,  and  commerce 
to  agitate  for  it.  They  might  object  to  the 
fishing  bounties  paid  the  Lower  Province,  to 
the  money  expended  there  in  fortifications,  or 
to  something  else,  and  claim  a  representation 
in  the  Council,  more  in  accordance  witli  their 
population  to  enforce  their  views ;  and  in  view 
of  such  contingencies  the  delegates  from  those 
provinces  conceived  it  would  not  be  safe  to 
trust  their  rights  to  an  elective  House.  It 
was  then  determined  that  in  one  branch 
there  wouW  be  a  fixed  number  "f  members 
nominated  by  the  Crown,  to  enable  it  to 
act  as  a  counterpoise  to  the  branch  in 
which  the  principle  of  representation  accord- 
ing to  population  would  be  recognized.  It 
miglit  be  said  that  the  principL.^  of  limita- 
tion of  numbers  could  have  been  adopted,  and 
that  of  election  preserved.  Well,  he  did  not 
say  the  scheme  was  perfect,  but  it  was  the 
best  that  could  be  devised,  and  a  <  the  Lower 
Provinces  felt  the  danger  from  thei  •  inferiority 
of  numbers,  being  only  800,000  ag  dust  double 
that  number  in  Upper  Canada  alone,  it  wa« 
essential  that  the  security  which  a  fixed  repre- 
sentation in  the  Council  afforded  to  them 
should  be  acceded  to.  The  Conference  acted 
upon  the  conviction  that  they  wei  e  not  build- 
ing a  gtruoture  fpr  a  temporary  purpose,  but, 


22 


&8  they  hoped,  for  centuries,  and  knowing 
how  the  doctrine  of  representation  according 
to  population  had  operated  in  distracting  the 
popular  branch  of  the  Legislature  in  Canada, 
they  endeavored  to  provide  against  a  similarly 
disturbing  cause  in  the  Confederation.  And 
their  precaution  appeared  to  him  to  be  founded 
in  wisdom  and  justice.  For  the  sake  of  argu- 
ment let  it  be  supposed  that  the  elective  prin- 
ciple is  maintained,  and  that  the  limit  of 
numbers  now  proposed,  viz.,  24  members  for 
each  of  the  three  grand  sections  in  the  Council 
is  also  fixed ;  let  it  be  supposed  further,  that 
the  population  of  Upper  Canada  continues  to 
augment  as  in  the  past,  what  may  not  be  that 
of  the  Saugeen,  Tecumseth  and  Eastern  Divi- 
sions (which  now  have  1.30,000,  90,000  and 
60,000  respectively)  forty  or  fifty  years  hence  ? 
And  is  it  not  possible,  nay,  would  it  not  be  like- 
ly, that  these  great  constituences,  when  compar- 
ing them  with  the  divisions  in  Prince  Edward 
Island,  numbering  some  twenty  thousand  to 
twenty-five  thousand  souls,  would  be  disposed 
to  set  up  claims  for  additional  representation  ? 
Who  that  looks  to  the  future  will  say  that  with 
an  elective  Upper  House  the  Constitution  will 
last?  It  was  the  apprehension  of  danger  to 
it€  permanency  that  decided  the  Conference 
to  adopt  the  principle  of  nomination  to  the 
superior  branch,  and  it  was  the  only  way 
which  suggested  itself  for  averting  it.  And 
he  must  say  for  himself,  that  he  fully  and 
entirely  concurred  in  the  decision.  He  felt 
that  the  principle  of  election  kept  alive  agerm 
of  doubt  as  to  the  security  of  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, and  he  was  glad  that  a  way  was  found 
of  removing  it  altogether.  It  was  well  known 
that  even  in  the  United  States,  where  there 
was  80  prevalent  a  disposition  to  submit 
everything  to  the  decision  of  the  people,  the 
principle  of  limitation  to  the  Uppor  House 
was  so  fully  recognized  and  settled  by  the 
Constitution,  that  no  attempt  was  ever  made 
to  change  it.  In  this  way  the  smallest  state, 
like  Rhode  Island,  was  a^  I'ully  represented  as 
the  state  of  New  York.  And  if  that  was 
considered  necessary  in  a  country  so  compact 
together  as  the  United  States,  how  much 
more  would  it  not  be  proper  in  a  Confedera- 
tion, some  of  the  sections  of  which  wero  sepa- 
rated from  each  other  by  long,  narrow  strips 
ol'  land,  or  wide  estuaries,  with  small  repre- 
sentation in  the  popular  branch,  and  looking 
chiefly  to  their  equality  in  the  Upper  Cliainber 
for  security  for  local  rights  and  intercstw  and 
institutions.  He  was  gratified,  upon  another 
ground,  that  this  decision  had  been  attained, 
and  this  was  on  the  ground  of  the  respect  ho  | 


bore  to  the  life-members  of  this  Chamber.  In 
the  law  which  hiid  made  the  House  elective 
there  was  no  wL«er  provision  than  that  which 
had  guaranteed  the  seat  of  the  members  ap- 
pointed by  the  Crown,  who  then  composed  it. 
He  had  always  felt  the  great  advantage  of  the 
jjresence  of  those  honorable  members  here. 
If  the  elective  system  had  entirely  superseded 
the  nominated  House,  removed  those  gentle- 
men and  brought  together  forty-eight  entirely 
new  members,  the  country  would  have  suffered 
a  grievous  loss  ;  but  the  old  members  kept 
their  places  and  the  new  ones  came  in  twelve 
at  a  time,  two  years  apart,  so  that  the  change 
from  one  system  to  the  other  was  effected 
without  any  injury.  The  nominated  members 
had  retained  their  influence,  and  the  tone  of 
calnmcss  and  gravity  which  had  obtained  in 
their  deliberations  was  insensibly  acquired  by 
the  elective  members  as  they  came  in,  to  the 
manifest  advantage  of  the  House.  We 
(speaking  of  the  elected  members )  had  picked 
up  the  spirit  of,  and  the  instruction  the 
Crown  members  were  so  fully  competent  to 
give  us,  and  so  had  been  enabled  to  discharge 
our  duties  in  a  way  we  could  not  possibly 
have  done  if  had  we  been  left  to  ourselves. 
If  the  life-members  had  been  deprived  of  their 
seats,  it  was  not  probable  that  many,  if  any 
of  them,  would  have  sought  a  restoration  to 
them  by  the  elective  process,  for  they  were 
generally  gentlemen  of  wealth,  position,  and 
delicacy  of  feeling,  whose  habits  of  mutu:il 
deference,  quietness  and  order,  would  have 
unfitted  them,  or  made  them  averse  to  face 
the  turmoil  and  excitement  of  the  unfavorable 
electioneering  contests.  These  honorable 
gentlemen,  under  an  elective  system,  must  have 
been  deprived  of  their  seats,  and  their  servicuvs 
have  been  lost  to  the  country  ;  whilst  under 
the  nominative  system  they  will  stand  on  the 
same  footing  as  the  other  members  of  thw 
Hou.se,  and  have  a  fair  representation  along 
with  the  members  holding  their  s»^ats  by 
election  in  tlie  Legislative  Council  of  the 
Confederate  Parliament.  ( Hear,  hear. )  Pass- 
ing on  to  anotlier  jxnnt,  ho  would  retnark  that 
some  persons  had  asked  what  would  hv  done 
if  the  two  Chambers  of  the  Confederation 
came  into  collision  ?  He  had  already  re- 
marked that  the  L(^i.slative  Council  was 
intended  as  a  counterpoiHC  to  the  weight 
of  numbers  in  the  Assembly,  but  such  a 
count('r|>oisc  did  not  nccesi^arily  imply  tlio 
probability  of  collision.  It  was  not  likely  that  1 
the  two  branches  would  ct>mu  into  such  collision 
upon  minor  subject**,  or  .subjeet.s  of  minor  iui- 
jKirtance,  for  two  such  bodies  .should  not,  lor 


^3 


the  mero  sake  of  resistance,  oppose  each  other 
in  such  a  way  ;  they  would  not  venture  to  do 
it.  He  did  not  remember  that  there  had  been 
any  really  difficult  matter  of  this  kind  for  a 
long  time.  This  House  had  rejected  the 
Squatters'  Bill,  as  it  was  called,  seven  or  eight 
times  after  it  had  been  passed  by  the  Assem- 
bly, but  that  had  not  impaired  the  good  un- 
derstanding between  them.  Indeed  the  effect 
had  been  of  the  best.  The  hon.  life-member 
from  Cobourg  [Hon.  Mr.  Boulton],  whom 
he  did  not  see  in  his  place,  had,  by  the  force 
of  reasoning,  convinced  the  House  that  the 
bill  was  destructive  of  the  rights  of  property, 
and  the  consequence  was  that,  year  by  year, 
the  measure  had  been  pruned  of  its  most  of- 
fensive features,  until  now,  as  he  was  informed, 
it  was  hardly  open  to  objection.  He  could  not 
recall  another  instance  of  persistent  difference 
of  opinion  between  the  Chambers.  The  real 
danger  of  collision  would  be  where  one  Cham- 
ber invaded  the  prerogatives  of  the  other,  and 
that  danger,  if  it  existed  at  all,  would  be  great- 
ly increased  were  the  Legislative  Council  made 
elective.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  the  members  were 
elected  they  might  say,  "  We  come  from  the 
people  just  as  dii'ectly  as  the  members  of  the 
Assembly  do,  and  our  authority  is,  therefore,  as 
full  and  complete  as  theirs.  Nay,more,for  where 
we  each  represent  1000  electors,  they  only  each 
represent  300,  and  we  have,  therefore,  as  much 
right  to  initiate  money  bills  and  impost  bills  as 
they  have."  Make  the  Council  purely  elective, 
and  he  would  not  promise  that  an  agitation 
of  this  kind  would  not  spring  up.  It  had 
not  been  a  theme  as  yet  on  the  floor  of  the 
House,  but  it  was  well  known  that  it  had 
been  freely  discussed  in  th  corridors,  and  if 
the  subject  had  not  beeu  formally  introduced, 
it  was  probably  because  it  was  thought  by 
those  who  debated  it  that  they  could  not 
rely  upon  the  life-members.  (Lear,  hear.) 
Let  the  Council  propose  to  deal  with  taxation 
and  the  elective  system  would  be  sure  in  the 
course  of  time  to  urge  it  on  to  do  so,  and  im- 
mediately the  spirit  of  the  Assembly  would 
be  aroused  to  resistance.  This  would  be  the 
way  to  provoke  collisions,  and  with  an  elective 
Council  it  was  not  unlikely  at  all  to  be. resort- 
ed to.  In  England,  where  the  Uppci-  House 
was  composed  of  a  class  entirely  distinct  from 
the  Commons,  and  having  interests,  as  a 
general  thing,  diverse  from  those  of  the  peo- 
ple, even  there  the  collisions  between  the  two 
branches  had  been  but  infrequent.  Indeed 
there  had  been  only  one  very  serious  collision 
in  the  course  of  centuries.  When,  howovei, 
such  conjunctures  arose,  the  crown  overcame 


them  by  the  appointment  of  a  sufficient  nutn- 
ber  of  peers  whose  political  views  accorded 
with  those  of  the  government.  The  right  to 
sit  in  the  House  of  Lords  being,  however, 
hereditary,  the  son  generally  inherited  the 
politics  of  his  father,  and  so  tho  character  of 
the  body  was  always  pretty  well  understoo  1  ; 
but  be  it  what  it  might,  and  as  much  as 
possible  removed  from  popular  influences,  it 
had  yet  learnc']  so  far  to  respect  the  will  of  the 
people  as  to  know  when  to  make  concession 
of  its  own  opinions.  He  did  not  say  that  it 
bowed  to  every  breeze  and  instantly  yielded 
to  every  demand,  nor  did  he  think  that  any 
Legislative  Upper  Chamber  should  do  so,  and 
be  content  merely  to  reflect  the  temper  and 
complexion  of  the  other  branch.  On  the  con- 
trary, he  held  that  when  it  had  good  and 
sufficient  evidence,  sufficient  to  satisfy  itself 
that  a  proposed  measure  was  unjust,  it  was 
bound  to  resist,  and  public  opinion  which 
generally  came  out  right  in  the  end,  would 
sustain  it  in  such  an  attitude.  But  there  waa 
very  much  less  danger  in  countries  like  this 
that  difference  of  opinion  would  even  be  as 
frequent  between  the  Legislative  Chambers  as 
between  the  Lords  and  Commons  in  England, 
and  the  reason  was  clear :  our  Legislative 
Coimcillors  would  not  come  from  so  different 
a  class  of  society  to  the  general  population,  as 
the  peers  of  the  British  nation,  compared 
with  the  people  of  that  nation.  The  lords 
had  ideas  of  caste  and  privileges  which  none  of 
our  people  were  imbrued  with,  and  the  common 
sympathy  existing  between  all  classes  here 
would  be  felt  equally  by  the  Legislative 
Councillors  and  the  Members  of  the  Assembly... 
Both  would  be  equally  subjected  to  popular 
influences  and  be  more  or  less  controlled  by 
them.  The  interests  of  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cillor, though  a  nominee  of  the  Crown,  would 
be  the  same  as  those  of  the  mass,  and  the 
legislation  which  would  be  good  for  them 
would,  as  a  general  thing,  be  good  for  him 
too.  He  would  have  no  ancestral  estates, 
privileges,  immunities  and  titles  to  protect, 
like  the  peers  of  England.  He  would  be 
affected  by  the  social  changes  which  affected 
others,  and  would  be  moved  by  the  same  aims 
and  aspiratious  as  his  friends  around  him. 
This  being  the  case,  it  was  not  very  probable 
that  his  opinions  would  even  be  set  in  opposi- 
tion to  those  of  other  men  as  to  make  it  likely 
that  he  would  come  in  collision  with  them,  or 
that,  as  a  House,  the  Council  would  be  in 
danger  of  a  serious  quarrel  with  the  Assembly. 
Then  the  changes  which  time  would  inevitably 
bring  about  in  a  body  like  the  proposed  Legi»- 


24 


lative  Council,  would  be  sufficiently  great  to 
prevent  the  possibility  of  a  continued  antagon- 
ism between  it  and  the  other  branch,  if  unhap- 
pily it  should  arise.     The  demise,  the  resigna- 
tion and  the  loss  of  seat  from  other  causes, 
would  do  this,  and  afford  the  Government  of 
the  day  the  opportunity  of  so  reconstructing 
the  House  as  to  bring  it  more  in  harmony 
with  public  sentiment.      He  did  not  say  it 
was  desirable  that  at  all  times  the  Legislative 
Council  should  be  a  reflection  of  such  opinion, 
though  it   was,   of  course,  desirable  that   it 
should  not  continue  violently  to  shock  it.    He 
would  have   that   House  conservative,  calm, 
considerate  and  watchful,  to  prevent  the  enact- 
ment of  measures  which,  in  its  deliberate  judg- 
ment, were  not  calculated  to  advance  the  com- 
mon weal.     Any  more  rapid  changes  in  the 
composition  of  the  House  than  those  he  now 
indicated,  he  did  not  consider  wholesome  or 
desirable.     From  the  history  of  the  present 
Chamber  for  the  last  few  years,  it  would  bo 
seen  that  such  changes,  whether  among  the 
life  members  or  the   elected  members,  were 
much  more  frequent  than  might  be  generally 
supposed.     According  to  the  present  elective 
system  twelve  members  went  out  and  twelve 
came  in  every  second  year.     Supposing  that  a 
collision    had   taken  place   between    the  two 
branches  of  the  Legislature,  and  that  it  was  de- 
sirable to  bring  the  Council  more  in  accord  with 
the  representatives  of  the  people,  under  this 
system,  the  same  members  might  be  returned, 
not  because  of  the  soundness  of  their  political 
opinions  on  the  topic  which  had  brought  about 
the  collision,   perhaps   without   the  slightest 
reference  to  it,  but  from  their  position  and 
their  exertions.     One   might  come  back  be- 
cause ho  WHS  a  wealthy  man  and  had  a  social 
position   which  gave  him   a   large   influence, 
another  because  he  was  an  able  canvasser  and 
well  versed  in  election  tactics,  and  others  from 
causes   equally    removed    from   the   political 
(question  upon  which  the  two  Houses  of  Par- 
liament   were   in    antagonism.     But   suppose 
the  twelve  scats  were  at  the  disposal  of  the 
Governmeni,  nnd  that  an  irreconcilable  difl'er- 
ence  had   fxistod  between    the  two   Houses, 
would   they  not  have  the  opjx)rtunity  of  re- 
di-ess  at  once  and  thoroughly  by  bringing  in 
tAvelve  raeinbers  who  would  harmonize  better 
in   opinion     with    them    and     the    country  ? 
Undoubtedly.     Well,  within  eight  years  the 
^/'changes  among  the  life-members  had   boon  as 
follows: — When  the  House  was  made  elective, 
there  were  40  such  members  in  it;  two  years 
af't«rwiirdit.  ut  the  c;l11  of  the  House,  the  num- 
ber was  found  i-edueed  to  31  ;  two  year*  after 


that  again  to  26  ;  in  two  years  more,  to  24  ; 
and  to-day  to  21,  of  which  21,  one  honorable 
member  was  now  seriously  indisposed.  In 
eight  years,  then,  the  number  had  been  dimin- 
ished by  half.  Then  changes  nearly  as  great  had 
occurred  among  the  elected  members.  There 
had  been  24  removals  and  changes  by  death 
and  otherwise  among  the.se  48  ;  and  it  should 
be  remembered,  that  as  the  elected  members 
came  in  by  twelves,  two  years  apart,  the  aver- 
age time  had  been  only  four  years.  This  was 
sufficient  to  show  the  opportunity  which,  ev^en 
among  younger  men  than  the  life-members,  the 
Government  would  have  of  keeping  the  House 
in  accord  with  the  true  interests  of  the 
country,  or  of  overcoming  any  unfortunate 
misunderstanding  between  the  two  branches.  > 
[The  honorable  member  here  went  minutely 
into  a  statement  of  the  changes  effected 
by  death,  acceptance  of  office,  and  defeat 
at  elections,  among  this  class  of  members, 
which,  however,  we  do  not  deem  it  neces- 
sary to  specify.]  These  changes  had '  cer- 
tainly altered,  to  .some  extent,  the  com- 
plexion of  tho  House,  and  the  future  would, 
no  doubt,  be  like  the  past  in  this  respect. 
The  Conference  had  taken  all  tliese  things 
into  consideration,  and  wisely  concluded,  as 
he  believed,  that  while  the  chauces  of  collision 
were  much  less  under  tho  nominative  system, 
the  opportunity  of  restoring  harmonious 
action  was  inlinitely  more  prompt  and  effec- 
tive, and  that  there  waa  no  such  danger  of 
collisons  between  the  two  branches  of  the 
General  Legishiture,  as  to  make  it  a  bar  to 
the  principle  of  nomination,  which  principle, 
in  their  judgment,  offered  the  compensating 
advantage  he  had  endeavored,  in  the  earlier 
part  of  his  observations,  to  point  out.  He 
sincerely  hoped  the  House  would  concur  in 
the  views  he  had  expressed,  and  would  accept 
the  measure  now  before  them,  as  one  M-hich 
ho  believed  calculated  to  promote  the  beet 
interests  of  this  country  and  tho  other  pro- 
vinces, and  to  hand  down  to  posterity  a  con- 
stitution analogous,  as  nearly  as  might  bo,  to 
that  of  the  empire  under  whose  protection  wo 
had  the  happiness  to  live — a  Constitution  cal- 
culated further,  as  he  was  fully  convinced,  to 
perpetuate  the  connection  between  these  colo- 
nies and  that  mighty  nation,  to  the  mutual 
benefit  of  both.  (Hear,  hear,  and  applause.) 
Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL  here  inquired  from  the 
honorable  member  why  it  was  thai  tho  selection 
of  Legislative  Councillors  from  Lower  Canada, 
in  the  Confederation  schomo,  was  to  bo  left  to 
the  Local  Government  of  that  section  of  the 
province,  while  no  such  provision  existed  with 


25 


respect  to  Upper  Canada  or  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces. 

Hox.  Mr.  CA3IPBELL  said  it  was  out  of 
deference  to  tlie  interests  of  the  British  Cana- 
dians of  Lower  Canada,  who  had  some  fear 
that  they  might  not  be  sufficiently  protected 
otherwise. 

Hon.  Mr.  RYAN  objected  to  this  mode  of 
selection,  as  calculated  to  perpetuate  differences 
of  nationality  and  creed,  and  thought  it  would 
be  better  to  leave  the  selection  unconditionally 
to  the  Crown. 

[Aftet  this  a  number  of  questions  were  put 
to  Hon.  Mr.  Campbell  upon  various  points 
of  detail,  and  a  cross  fire  was  kept  up  from 
both  sides  of  the  House,  which  made  it  next  to 
impossible  to  keep  track  of  the  proceedings. 

Among  the  questions  asked  was  one  as  to 
whether  the  local  governments  should  be  con- 
stituted before  the  Constitution  of  the  Confe- 
deration became  law.  The  resolution  concern- 
ing this  point  seemed  involved  and  contradic- 
toi-y,  as  it  supposed  some  part  of  the  plan  to 
be  in  force,  which  depended  upon  the  action 
of  local  governments  not  themselves  in  exist- 
ence.] 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  promised  to  give 
an  explanation  at  the  next  sitting  of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  then  addressed  the 
House  for  a  few  minutes,  it  being  then  nearly 
six  o'clock.  He  did  not  declare  himself  directly 
opposed  to  the  scheme  as  a  whole,  but  believed 
that  the  abandonment  of  the  elective  principle 
in  respect  of  the  Legislative  CouncU  was  a  step 
backward  and  an  unwise  one.  He  quoted  as 
a  proof  the  opinion  of  the  Premier  of  the 
Government  expressed  two  years  ago,  and 
thought  it  not  a  little  strange  he  should  so 
readUy  have  changed  his  views — 

Cries  of  six  o'clock. 

Further  debate  was  then  postponed  until 
the  morrow,  and  the  House  immediately 
afterwards  adjourned. 


LEGISLATIVE   ASSEMBLY. 


Monday^  February  6,  1865. 

Attorney  General  MACDONALD 
moved,  '*  That  an  humble  Address  be  pre- 
sented to  Her  Majesty,  praying  that  She 
may  be  graciously  pleased  to  cause  a  meas- 
ure to  be  submitted  to  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment, for  the  purpose  of  uniting  the  Colonies 
of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick, 
Newfoundland,  and  Prince  Edward  Island, 

5 


in  one  Government,  with  provisions  based  on 
certain  Resolutions,  which  were  adopted  at 
a  Conference  of  Delegates  from  the  said 
Colonies,  held  at  the  city  of  Quebec,  on  the 
10th  October,  1864."*  He  said:— Mr. 
Speaker,  in  fulfilment  of  the  promise  made 
by  the  Government  to  Parliament  at  its  last 
session,  I  have  moved  this  resolution.  I 
have  had  the  honor  of  being  charged,  on 
behalf  ot  the  Government,  to  submit  a  scheme 
for  the  Confederation  of  all  the  British  North 
American  Provinces  —  a  scheme  which  has 
been  received,  lam  glad  to  say,  with  general, 
if  not  universal,  approbation  in  Canada. 
The  scheme,  as  propounded  through  the 
press,  has  received  almost  no  opposition. 
While  there  may  be  occasionally,  here  and 
there,  expressions  of  dissent  from  some  of 
the  details,  yet  the  scheme  as  a  whole  has 
met  with  almost  universal  approval,  and  the 
Government  has  the  greatest  satisfaction  in 
presenting  it  to  this  House.  This  subject, 
which  now  absorbs  the  attention  of  the  peo- 
ple of  Canada,  and  of  the  whole  of  British 
North  America,  is  not  a  new  one.  For  years 
it  has  more  or  less  attracted  the  attention  of 
every  statesman  and  politician  in  these  prov- 
inces, and  has  been  looked  upon  by  many 
far-seeing  politicians  as  being  eventually  the 
means  of  deciding  and  settling  very  many 
of  the  vexed  questions  which  have  retarded 
the  prosperity  of  the  colonies  as  a  whole, 
and  particularly  the  prosperity  of  Canada. 
The  subject  was  pressed  upon  the  public  at- 
tention by  a  great  many  writers  and  politi- 
cians ;  but  I  believe  the  attention  of  the 
Legislature  was  first  formally  called  to  it  by 
my  honorable  friend  the  Minister  of  Finance. 
Some  years  ago,  in  an  elaborate  speech,  my 
hon.  friend,  while  an  independent  member 
of  Parliament,  before  being  connected  with 
any  Government,  pressed  his  views  on  the 
Legislature  at  great  length  and  with  his 
usual  force.  But  the  subject  was  not  taken 
up  by  any  party  as  a  branch  of  their  policy, 
until  the  formation  of  the  Cartier-Mac- 
DONALD  Administration  in  1858,  when  the 
Confederation  of  the  colonies  was  announced 
as  one  of  the  measures  which  they  pledged 
themselves  to  attempt,  if  possible,  to  bring 
to  a  Satisfactory  conclusion.  In  pursuance 
of  that  promise,  the  letter  or  despatch,  which 
has  been  so  much  and  so  freely  commented 
upon  in  the  press  and  in  this  House,  was 
addressed  by  three  of  the  members  of  that 
Administration  to  the  Colonial  Office.     The 

•  For. Resolutions,  see  Legislative  Council,  page  1, 


26 


subject,  however,  though  looked  upon  with 
faror  by  the  country,  and  though  there  were 
no  distiLct  expressions  of  opposition  to  it 
from  any  party,  did  not  begin  to  assume  its 
present  proportions  until  last  session.    Then, 
men  of  all  parties  and   all  shades  of  politics 
became    alarmed  at  the  aspect   of   affairs. 
They   found  that  such  was  the   opposition 
between  the  two  sections  of  the   province, 
such  was  the  danger  of  impending  anarchy, 
in  consequence  of  the  irreconcilable  differ- 
ences of  opinion,  with  respect  to  representa- 
tion   by   population,    between    Upper    and 
Lower  Canada,  that  unless  some  solution  of 
the  difficulty  was  arrived  at,  we  would  suffer 
under  a  succession  of  weak  governments, — 
weak  in  numerical  support,  weak  in  force, 
and  weak  in  power  of  doing  good.  All  were 
alarmed  at  this  state  of  affairs.     We  had 
election    after  election, — we  had    ministry 
after  ministry, — with  the  same  result.     Par- 
ties were  so  equally  balanced,  that  the  vote 
of  one  member  might  decide  the  fate  of  the 
Administration,  and  the  course  of  legislation 
for  a  year  or  a  series  of  years.     This  con- 
dition of  things  was  well  calculated  to  arouse 
the  earnest  consideration  of  every  lover  of 
his   country,  and  1  am  happy  to  say  it  had 
that  eflect.     None  were  more  impressed  by 
this    momentous   state  of  affairs,   and  the 
grave  apprehensions  that  existed  of  a  state 
of  anarchy  destroying  our  credit,  destroying 
our  prosperity,  destroying  our  progress,  tlian 
were  the  members  of  ttiis  present  House ; 
and    the    leading   statesmen    on   both  sides 
seemed  to  have  come  to  the  common  con- 
clusion, that  some  step  must  be  taken  to  re- 
lieve the  country  from  the  dead-lock   and 
impending  anarchy  that  hung  over   us.  — 
Witli    that  view,  my   colleague,   the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council,  made  a  motion  founded 
on  the    despatch  addressed  to  the  Colonial 
Minister,  to  which  1  have  referred,  and  a 
committee  was  struck,  composed  of  gentlemen 
of  both  sides  of  the  House,  of  all  sliades  of 
political   opinion,  without    any  reference  to 
whether  they  were  supporters  of  the  Admin- 
istration of  the  day  or  belonged  to  the  Opposi- 
tion, for  the  purpose  of  taking  into  calm  and 
full  deliberation  the  evils  wliich  tlir«4iitened 
the  future  of  Canada.     That  motion  of  my 
honorable    friend    resulted     most    happily. 
The  coiuiuittee,  by  a  wise  provision, — and  in 
order  tliat  each  uieuibcr  of   the  committee 
might  have  an  opportunity  ot  expressing  his 
opinions  without  being  in  any  way  compro- 
mis«d  before  the  public,  or  with  his  party,  iu 


regard  either  to  his  political  friends  or  to  his 
political    foes, — agreed  that   the   discussion 
should  be  freely  entered  upon  without  refer- 
ence to  the  political  antecedents  of  any  of 
them,  and  that  they  should  sit  with  closed 
doors,  so  that  they  might  be  able  to  approach 
the  subject  frankly  and  in  a  spirit  of  compro- 
mise.    The  committee  included  most  of  the 
leading  members  of  the  House, — I  had  the 
honor  myself  to  be  one  of  the  number, — and 
the  result  was  that  there  was  found  an  ardent 
desire — a  creditable  desire,  I  must  say, — dis- 
played by  all  the  members  of  the  committee 
to  approach  the  subject  honestly,  and  to  at- 
tempt to  work  out  some  solution  which  might 
relieve  Canada  from  the  evils  under  which  she 
labored.     The  report  of  that  committee  was 
laid  before  the  House,  and  then  came  the 
political  action  of  the  leading  men  of  the  two 
parties  in  this  House,  which  ended  in  the 
formation  of  the  present  Government.      The 
principle  upon  which  that  Government  was 
formed  has  been  announced,  and  is  known  to 
all.     It  was  formed  for  the  very  purpose  of 
carrying  out   the  object  which  has  now  re- 
ceived to  a  certain  degree  its  completion,  by 
the  resolutions  I  have  had  the  honor  to  place 
iu  your  hands.  As  has  been  stated,  it  was  not 
without  a  great  deal  of  difficulty  and  reluct- 
ance that  that  Government  was  formed.  The 
gentlemen  who  compose  this  Government  had 
for  many  years  been  engaged  in  political  hos- 
tilities to  such  an  extent  that  it  affected  even 
their  social  relations.     But  the  crisis  was 
great,  the  danger  was  imminent,  and  the  gen- 
tlemen who  now  form  the  present  Adminis- 
tration found  it  to  be  their  duty  to  lay  aside  all 
personal  feelings,  to  sacrifice  in  some  degree 
their  position,  and  even  to  run  the  risk  of 
having  their  motives  impugned,  for  the  sake 
of  arriving  at  some  conclusion  tliat  would  be 
satisfactory  to  the  country  iu  general.     The 
present  resolutions  were  the  result.     And,  as 
1  said  before,  I  am  proud  to  believe  that  the 
country  has  sanctioned,  as  I  trust  that  the  re- 
presentatives of  the  people  in  this  llouso  will 
sanction,  the  scheme  which  is  now  submitted 
for  the  future  governuieut  of  British  North 
America.     (Cheers.)     Everything  soomod  to 
favor  the  project,  and  everything  .x«cnied  to 
shew  that  the  present  was  the  time,  if  ever, 
when  this  great  union  between  all  Her  Majes- 
ty's subjects  dwelling  in  British  North  Amer- 
ica, should  bo   earned    out.   (Hear,    hoar.) 
When  the  Oovornmeut  was    ioruied,  it  v/rh 
felt  that  the  ditficulties  in  the  way  of  effecting 
a  uuiou  betwtttiu  all  thu  British  North  Amer- 


S7 


ican  Colonies  were  great — so  great  as  almost, 
in  the  opinion  of  many,  to  make  it  hopeless. 
And  with  that  view  it  was  the  policy  of  the 
Governmentjif  they  could  not  succeed  in  pro- 
curing a  union  between  all  the  British  North 
American  Colonies,  to  attempt  to  free  the 
country  from  the  dead-lock  in  which  we  were 
placed  in  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  in  conse- 
quence of  the  difference  of  opinion  between 
the  two  sections,  by  having  a  severance  to  a 
certain  extent  of  the  present  union  between 
the  two  provinces  of  Upper  and  Lower  Can- 
ada, and  the  substitution  of  a  Federal  Union 
between  them.  Most  of  us,  however,  I  may 
say,  all  of  us,were  agreed — and  I  believe  every 
thinking  man  will  agree — as  to  the  expedi- 
ency of  effecting  a  union  between  all  the  pro- 
vinces, and  the  superiority  of  such  a  design, 
if  it  were  only  practicable,  over  the  smaller 
scheme  of  having  a  Federal  Union  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  alone.  By  a  happy 
concurrence  of  events,  the  time  came  when 
that  proposition  could  be  made  with  a  hope  of 
success.  By  a  fortunate  coincidence  the  de- 
sire for  union  existed  in  the  Lower  Provinces, 
and  a  feeling  of  the  necessity  of  strengthening 
themselves  by  collecting  together  the  scat- 
tered colonies  on  the  sea-board,  had  induced 
them  to  form  a  convention  of  their  own  for 
the  purpose  of  effecting  a  union  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  of  Nova  Scotia,  New  Bruns- 
wick, and  Prince  Edward  Island,  the  legisla- 
tures of  those  colonies  having  formally  autho- 
rized their  respective  governments  to  send  a 
delegation  to  Prince  Edward  Mand  for  the 
purpose  of  attempting  to  form  a  union  of  some 
kiod.  "Whether  the  union  should  be  federal 
or  legislative  was  not  then  indicated,  but  a 
union  of  some  kind  was  sought  for  the  pur- 
pose of  making  of  themselves  one  people  in- 
stead of  three.  We,  ascertaining  that  they 
were  about  to  take  such  a  step,  and  knowing 
that  if  we  allowed  the  occasion  to  pass,  if  they 
did  indeed  break  up  all  their  present  political 
organizations  and  form  a  new  one,  it  could 
not  be  expected  that  they  would  again  readily 
destroy  the  new  organization  which  they  had 
formed, — the  union  of  the  three  provinces  on 
the  sea-board, — and  form  another  with  Can- 
ada. Knowing  this,  we  availed  ourselves  of 
the  opportunity,  and  asked  if  they  would  re- 
ceive a  deputation  from  Canada,  who  would 
go  to  meet  them  at  Charlottetown,  for  the 
purpose  of  laying  before  them  the  advantages 
of  a  larger  and  more  extensive  union,  by  the 
junction  of  all  the  provinces  in  one  great  gov-  I 
^rnment  under  our  common  Sovereign.  They  j 


at  once  kindly  consented  to  receive  and  hear 
us.  They  did  receive  us  cordially  and  gener- 
ously, and  asked  us  to  lay  our  views  before 
them.  We  did  so  at  some  length,  and  so  sat- 
isfactory to  them  were  the  reasons  we  gave ;  so 
clearly,  in  their  opinion,  did  we  shew  the  ad- 
vantages of  the  greater  union  over  the  lesser, 
that  they  at  once  set  aside  their  own  project, 
and  joined  heart  and  hand  with  us  in  entering 
into  the  larger  scheme,  and  trying  to  form,  as 
far  as  they  and  we  could,  a  great  nation  and  a 
strong  government.  (Cheers.)  Encouraged 
by  this  arrangement,  which,  however,  was  al- 
together unofficial  and  unauthorized,  we  re- 
turned to  Quebec,  and  then  the  Grovernment 
of  Canada  invited  the  several  governments  of 
the  sister  colonics  to  send  a  deputation  here 
from  each  of  them  for  the  purpose  of  consid- 
ering the  question,  with  something  like  au- 
thority from  their  respective  governments. 
The  result  was,  that  when  we  met  here  on  the 
10  th  of  October,  on  the  first  day  on  which  we 
assembled,  aft^r  the  full  and  free  discussions 
which  had  taken  place  at  tharlottetown,  the 
first  resolution  now  before  this  House  was 
passed  unanimously,  being  received  with  ac- 
clamation as,  in  the  opinion  of  every  one  who 
heard  it,  a  proposition  which  ought  to  receive, 
and  would  receive,  the  sanction  of  each  gov- 
ernment and  each  people.  The  resolution  is, 
"  That  the  best  interests  and  present  and  fu- 
ture prosperity  of  British  North  America 
will  be  promoted  by  a  Federal  Union  under 
the  Crown  of  G-reat  Britain,  provided  such 
union  can  be  effected  on  principles  just  to 
the  several  provinces."  It  seemed  to  all  the 
statesmen  assembled — and  there  are  great 
statesmen  in  the  Lower  Provinces,  men  who 
would  do  honor  to  any  government  and  to  any 
legislature  of  any  free  country  enjoying  re- 
presentative institutions— -it  was  clear  to  them 
all  that  the  best  interests  and  present  and  fu- 
ture prosperity  of  British  North  America 
would  be  promoted  by  a  Federal  Union  under 
the  Crown  of  Great  Britain.  And  it  seems  to 
me,  as  to  them,  and  I  think  it  will  so  appear  to 
the  people  of  this  country,  that,  if  we  wish  to 
be  a  great  people  ;  if  we  wish  to  form — using 
the  expression  which  was  sneered  at  the  other 
evening — a  great  nationality,  commanding 
the  respect  of  the  world,  able  to  hold  our  own 
against  all  opponents,  and  to  defend  those 
institutions  we  prize  :  if  we  wish  to  have  one 
system  of  government,  and  to  establish  a  com- 
mercial union,  with  unrestricted  free  trade, 
between  people  of  the  five  provinces,  belong- 
ing, as  they  do,  to  the  same  nation,  obeying 


28 


the  Bame  Sovereign,  owning  the  same  alle- 
giance, and  being,  for  the  most  part,  of  the 
same  blood  and  lineage  :  if  we  wish  to  be  able 
to  aflford  to  each  otbcr  the  means  of  mutual 
defence  and  support  against  aggression  and 
attack — this  can  only  be  obtained  by  a  union 
of  some  kind  between  the  scattered  and  weak 
boundaries    composing    the   British    North 
American  Provinces.     (Cheers).     The  very 
mention  of  the  scheme  is  fitted  to  bring  with  it 
its  own  approbation.     Supposing  that  in  the 
spring  ofthe  year  1865,  half  a  million  of  people 
were  coming  from  the  United  Kingdom   to 
make   Canada    their   home,    although    they 
brought  only  their  strong  arms  and  wijling 
hearts  ;  though  they  brought  neither  skill  nor 
experience  nor  wealth,  would  we  not  receive 
them  with  open  arms,  and  hail  their  presence 
in  Canada  as  an  important  addition  to  our 
strength  ?     But  when,  by  the  proposed  union, 
we  not  only  get  nearly  a  million  ot  people  t  j 
join  us — when  they  contribute  not  only  their 
numbers,  their  physical  strength,  and  their 
desire  to  benefit  their  position,  but  when  we 
know  that  they  consist  of  old-established  com- 
munities, having  a  large  amount  of  realized 
wealth,  —  composed  of  people   possessed  of 
skill,  education  and  experience  iu  the  way.s 
of  the  New  World  —  people  who    are  as 
much   Canadians,  I   may  say,   us   we  are — 
people  who  are  imbued  with  the  same  feelings 
of  loyalty  io  the  Queen,  and  the  same  desire 
for  the  continuance  of  the  connection  with 
the  Mother  Country  as  we  are,  and  at  the 
same  time,  have  a  like  feeling  of  ardent  at- 
tachment for  this,  our  com.uoa  country,  for 
which  they  and  we   would  alike  fight  and 
shed  our  blood,  if  necessary.    When  all  this 
is  considered,  argument  is  needless  to  prove 
the  advantage  of  such  a  union.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  were  only  three  modes, — if  I  may  re- 
turn lor  a  mument  to  the  difficulties  with 
which  Canada  was  surrounded, — only  three 
modes  that  were  at  all  suggested,  by  which 
the  dead  lock  in  our  affairs,  the  anarchy  we 
dreaded,  and  the  evi's  which  retarded  our 
prosperity,  could   be   met  or  averted.     One 
was   the  dissolution  of  the   union    between 
Upper    and    Lower  Canada,   leaving  them 
as  they  were   before   the   union    of   1841. 
I    believe    that  that  proposition,  by   itself 
had   no  supporters.     It  was  felt  by   every 
one    that,  although    it   was    a  course   that 
would  do  away  with  the  sectional  difliculties 
which  existed, — though  it  would  remove  the 
pressure  on  the  part  ofthe  people  of  Upper 
Canada  for  the  ropreef^ntation  bnsod    upon 


population, — and  the  jealousy  of  the  people 
of  Lower  Canada  lest  their  institutions  should 
be  attacked  and  prejudiced  by  that  principle 
in  our  representation ;    yet  it  was   felt   by 
every  thinking  man  in  the  province  that  it 
would    be    a    retrograde  step,  which  would 
throw  back  the  country  to  nearly   the  same 
position  as  it  occupied  before  the  union, — 
that  it  would  lower  the  credit  enjoyed  by 
United  Canada, — that  it  would  be  the  break- 
ing up  of  the  connection  which  had  existed 
for  nearly  a  quarter  of  a  century,  and,  under 
which,  although  it  had  not  been  completely 
successful,  and  had  not  allayed  altogether  the 
local  jealousies  that  had  their  root  in  circum- 
stances which  arose  before  the  union,   our 
province,  as  a  whole,  had  nevertheless  pros- 
pered and  increased.     It  was  felt  that  a  dis- 
solution of  the  union  would  have  destroyed 
all  the  credit  that  we  had  gained  by  being  a 
united  province,  and  would  have  left  us  two 
weak  and  inefi"ective  governments,  instead  of 
one   powerful    and   united   people.      (Hear, 
hear.)     The  next  mode  suggested,  was  the 
granting    of    representation    by  population. 
Now,  we  all  know  the  manner  in  which  that 
question  was    and   is    regarded   by    Lower 
Canada;  that  while  in    Upper   Canada  the 
desii'e  and  cry  for  it  was  daily   augmenting, 
the  resistance  to  it  in  Lower  Canada  was  pro- 
portionably  increasing  in  strength.     Still,  if 
some  such  means  of  relieving  us  from  the 
sectional  jealousies  which  existed  between  the 
two  Canadas,  if  some  such  solution  of  the 
difficulties  as   Confederation   had  not  been 
found,  the  representation  by  population  must 
eventually   have  been   carried ;     no   matter 
though   it  might  have  been  felt   in   Lower 
Canada,  as  being  a  breach  of  the  Treaty  of 
Union,  no  matter   how  much  it  might  have 
bee'j  felt  by  the  Lower   Canadians   that   it 
would  sacrifice  their  local  interests,  it  is  cer- 
tain that  in  the  progros-  of  events  represen- 
tation  by  population  would   have  been   car- 
ried;    and,  had   it  been   carried  —  I  speak 
here   my  own    individual  sentiments — I   do 
not  think  it  would  have  been  for  the   inter- 
est of  Upper  Canada.      For  though  Upper 
Canada  would  have  felt  that  it  had  reooived 
what  it  claimed  as  a  right,  and  had  succeed 
in  establishing   its     ight,  ^et  it  would  have 
lei't  the  Lower  Province  with  a  sullen   feel- 
ing of   injury   and   injustice.      The   Lower 
<'afnulians    would    not   have   worked    cheer- 
fully   under   such    a  change   ol   system,  but 
would    have   ceased   to   bo    what   they    are 
now  —  a    nationality,   with     representatives 


29 


inParliament,  governed  by  general  principles, 
and  dividing  according  to  their  political  opin- 
ions— and  would  have  been  in  great  danger 
of  becoming  a  faction,  forgetful  of  national 
obligations,  and  only  actuated  by  a  desire  to 
defend  their  own  sectional  interests,  their  own 
laws,  and  their  own  institutions.  (Hear,hear.) 
The  third  and  only  means  of  solution  for  our 
difficulties  was  the  junction  of  the  provinces 
either  in  a  Federal  or  a  Legislative  Union. 
Now,  as  regards  the  comparative  advantages 
of  a  Legislative  and  a  Federal  Union,  I  have 
never  hesitated  to  state  my  own  opinions.  I 
have  again  and  again  stated  in  the  House, 
that,  if  practicable,  I  thought  a  Legislative 
Union  would  be  preferable.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  have  always  contended  that  if  we  could 
agree  to  have  one  government  and  one  par- 
liament, legislating  for  the  whole  of  these 
peoples,  it  would  be  the  best,  the  cheapest, 
the  most  vigorous,  and  the  s*^rongest  system 
of  government  we  could  adopt.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But,  on  looking  at  the  subject  in  the  Con- 
ference, and  discussing  the  matter  as  we  did, 
most  unreservedly,  and  with  a  desire  to  ar- 
rive at  a  satisfactory  conclusion,  we  found 
that  such  a  system  was  impracticable.  In 
the  first  place,  it  would  not  meet  the  assent 
of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada,  because  they 
felt  that  in  their  peculiar  position — being 
in  a  minority,  with  a  diflFercnt  language, 
nationality  and  religion  from  the  majority, — 
in  case  of  a  junction  with  the  other  pro- 
vinces, their  institutions  and  their  laws 
might  be  assailed,  and  their  sncestral  asso- 
ciations, on  which  they  prided  themselves, 
attacked  and  prejudiced  ',  it  was  found  that 
any  proposition  which  involved  the  absorp- 
tion of  the  individuality  of  Lower  Canada — 
if  I  may  use  the  expression — would  not  be 
received  with  favor  by  her  people.  We 
found  too,  that  though  their  people  speak 
the  same  language  and  enjoy  the  same  sys- 
tem of  law  as  the  people  of  Upper  Canada, 
a  system  founded  on  the  common  law  of  Eng- 
land, there  was  as  great  a  disinclination  on  the 
part  of  the  various  Maritime  Provinces  to 
lose  their  individuality,  as  separate  political 
organizations,  as  we  observed  in  the  case  of 
Lower  Canada  herself.  (Hear,  hear.)  There- 
fore, we  were  forced  to  the  conclusion  that 
we  must  either  abandon  the  idea  of  Unioa 
altogether,  or  devise  a  system  of  union  in 
which  the  separate  provincial  organizations 
would  be  in  some  degree  preserved.  So  that 
those  who  were,  like  myself,  in  favor  of  a 
Legislative  Union,   were  obliged  to  modify 


their  views  and  accept  the  project  of  a 
Federal  Union  as  the  only  scheme  prac- 
ticable, even  for  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
Because,  although  the  law  of  those  prov- 
inces is  founded  on  the  common  law  of 
England,  yet  every  one  of  them  has  a  large 
amount  pf  law  of  its  own  —  colonial  law 
framed  by  itself,  and  affecting  every  relation 
of  life,  such  as  the  laws  of  property,  muni- 
cipal and  assessment  laws ;  laws  relating  to 
the  liberty  of  the  subject,  and  to  all  the 
great  interests  contemplated  in  legislation  } 
we  found,  in  short,  that  the  statutory  law 
of  the  different  provinces  was  so  vai-ied  and 
diversified  that  it  was  almost  impossible  to 
weld  them  into  a  Legislative  Union  at  once. 
Why,  sir,  if  you  only  consider  the  innumer- 
able subjects  of  legislation  peculiar  to  new 
countries,  and  that  every  one  of  those  five 
colonies  had  particular  laws  of  its  own,  to 
which  its  people  have  been  accustomed  and 
are  attached,  you  will  see  the  difficulty  of 
effecting  and  working  a  Legislative  Union, 
and  bringing  about  an  assimilation  of  the 
local  as  well  as  general  laws  of  the  whole  of 
the  provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  in 
Upper  Canada  understand  from  the  nature 
and  operation  of  our  peculiar  municipal 
law,  of  which  we  know  the  value,  tlie  diffi- 
culty of  framing  a  general  system  of  legisla- 
tion on  local  matters  which  would  meet  the 
wishes  and  fulfil  the  requirements  of  the  sev- 
eral provinces.  Even  the  laws  considered  the 
least  important,  respecting  private  rights  in 
timber,  roads,  fencing,  and  innumerable  other 
matters,  small  in  themselves,  but  in  the  ag- 
gregate of  great  interest  to  the  agricultural 
class,  who  form  the  great  body  of  thd  people, 
are  regarded  as  of  great  value  by  the  portion 
of  the  community  affected  by  them.  And 
when  we  consider  that  every  one  of  the 
colonies  has  a  body  of  law  of  this  kind,  and 
that  it  will  take  years  before  those  laws  can 
be  assimilated,  it  was  felt  that  at  fir.st,  at  all 
events,  any  united  legislation  would  be  almost 
impossible.  lam  happy  to  state — and  indeed 
it  appears  on  the  face  of  the  resolutions  them- 
selves —  that  as  regards  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, a  great  desire  was  evinced  for  the  final 
assimiladon  of  our  laws.  One  of  the  re- 
solutions provides  that  an  attempt  shall 
be  made  to  assimilate  the  laws  of  the 
Maritime  Provinces  and  those  of  Upper 
Canada,  for  the  purpose  of  eventually  estab- 
lishing one  body  of  statutory  law,  founded 
on  the  common  law  of  England,  the  parent  of 
the  laws  of  all  those  provinces.  One  great  ob- 


w 


jection  made  to  a  Federal  Union  was  the  ex- 
pense of  an  increased  number  of  legislatures. 
I  will  not  enter  at  any  length  into  that  sub- 
ject, because  my  honorable  friends,  the  Fi- 
nance Minister  and  the  Presidout  of  the 
Council,  who  are  infinitely  more  competent 
than  myself  to  deal  with  matters  of  this  kind — 
matters  of  account — will,  I  think,  be  able  to 
show  that  the  expenses  under  a  Federal  Union 
will  not  be  greater  than  those  under  the  exist- 
ing system  of  separate  governments  and  legis- 
latures. Here, where  we  have  a  joint  legislature 
for  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  which  deals  not 
only  with  subjects  of  a  general  interest  com- 
mon to  all  Canada,  but  with  all  matters  of  pri- 
vate right  and  of  sectional  interest,  and  with 
that  class  of  measures  kuown  :u!  "private  bills," 
we  find  that  one  of  the  greatest  sources 
of  expense  to  the  country  is  the  cost 
of  legislation.  We  find,  from  the  admix- 
ture of  subjects  of  a  general,  with  those 
of  a  private  character  in  legislation,  that 
they  mutually  interfere  with  each  other  ; 
whereas,  if  the  attention  of  the  Legislature 
was  confined  to  measures  of  one  kind  or  the 
other  alone,  the  session  of  Parliament  would 
not  be  so  protracted  and  therefore  not  so 
expensive  as  at  present.  In  the  proposed 
Constitution  all  matters  of  general  interest 
are  to  be  dealt  with  by  the  G-eneral  Le- 
g'sluture ;  while  the  local  legislatures  will 
deal  with  matters  of  local  interest,  which 
do  not  affect  the  Confederation  as  a  whole, 
but  are  of  the  greatest  importance  to  their 
particular  sections.  By  such  a  division 
of  labor  the  sittings  of  the  General  Le- 
gislature would  not  be  so  protracted  as 
even  those  of  Canada  alone.  And  so  with  the 
local  legislatures,  their  attention  being  con- 
fined to  subjects  pertaining  to  their  own 
sections,  their  sessions  would  be  shorter  and 
less  expensive.  Then,  when  wo  consider 
the  enormous  saving  that  will  be  effected 
in  the  administration  of  affairs  by  one  General 
Government —when  we  reflect  that  each 
of  the  five  colonies  have  a  goveTiment 
of  its  own  with  a  -mplete  tistablishment 
of  public  depart  '  nts  and  all  the  ma<ihinery 
required  for  o  transaction  (»f  the  busi- 
lJ.bs  of  the  country — that  each  h;  voasepar- 
^n  executive,  judicial  and  militia  system — 
ti'at  each  province  has  a  .separate  min- 
istry, iiicludiri;^  a  .Ministi3r  of  .Nlilitia,  with 
a  complete;  \>ljiit;itit  (JeiiiTal's  DeiartiiKMjt — 
that  each  have  a  Finance  Minister  with  a 
full  ChhIoiij.s  and  ilx^isc  staff  -  that  each 
Colony  ha«  m  largo  and  complete  an  aduiinis- 


it' 


trative  organization,  with  as  many  Executive 
officers  as  the  General  Government  will  have 
— we  can    well   understand    the    enormous 
saving  that   will  result  from  a  union  of  all 
the  colenies,  from  their  having  but  one  head 
and    one    central    system     We,   in    Canada, 
already  know   something  of  the  advantages 
and     disadvantages  of    a     Federal    Union. 
Although  we  have  nominally   a  Legislative 
Union  in    Canada — although  we  sit  in  one 
Parliament,  supposed  constitutionally  to  re- 
present the  people  without  regard  to  sections 
or  localities,  yet  we  know,  as  a  matter  of  fact, 
that  since  the  union  in  1841,  we  have  had  a 
Federal    Union ;  that    in   matters   affecting 
Upper   Canada  solely,    members  from   that 
section  claimed  and  generally  exercised  the 
right  of  exclusive  legislation,  while   mem- 
bers from  Lower  Canada  legislated  in  mat- 
ters affecting  only    their   owa   section.    We 
have  had  a  Federal    Union   in  fact,  though 
a    Legislative  Union    in   ua.ne ;  and   in   tha 
hot     contests    of    late    years,    if    on      any 
occasion  a    measure  affecting  any    one  sec- 
tion were   interfered   with  by  the  members 
from    the    other — if,  for    instance,    a   mea- 
sure locally    affecting    Upper   t'anada   were 
carried    or    defeated    asrainst    the     wishes 
of    its    majority,     by     one     irom      Lower 
Canada, — my   honorable  friend     the     Pres- 
ident   of     the    Council,    and     his     friends 
denounced  with  all  their  energy  and  ability 
such  legislation  as   an  infringement  of  the 
rights   of    the    Upper    Province.      (Hear, 
hear,  and  cheers).     Just  in  the  same  way,  it" 
any    act    concerning    Lower    Canada    were 
pressed  into  law  against  the  wishes  of  the 
majority  of  her  representatives,  by  those  from 
Upper  Canada,  the  Lower  Canadians  would 
rise  as  one  man  and  protest  against  such  a 
violation    of   their    peculiai    right>.    (Hear, 
hear.)     The  relations  between  E norland  and 
Scotland  are  very  similar  to  that  which  ob- 
tains between  the  Canadas.     The  union  be- 
tween them,  in  matters  of  legi-slation,  is  of  a 
federal  character,  because  the  Act  ot  Union 
between  the  two  countries  provides  that  the 
Scottish  law  cann-Jt  be  altered ,  except  for  the 
manifest  ailvautage  of  the  people  of  Scotland. 
Tlii.s    .stipulation    lia.«>   been    held     to   be   so 
()t)ligat.ory  on  the   Legislature  of  Great  liri- 
tain,  that  no  mcasur '   uffecting   the   law   of 
Scotl.nd    i.H    piisst'd    unless   it    receives    the 
sanction  (if  a  majority  of  the  Seottish  mem- 
bers in  Parliament.     .No  matt  r  how  import- 
ant it  may  bo  for  the  interests  id'  the  empire 
as  a  whuU  to  alter  the  luw«  of  Scotland  —no 


■U\r 


31 


matter  how  much  it  may  interfere  with  the 
symmetry  of  the  general  law  of  the  United 
Kingdom,  that  law  is  not  altered,  except 
with  the  consent  of  the  Scottish  people, 
as  expressed  by  their  representatives  iu  Par- 
liament. (Hear,  hear.)  Thus,  we  have,  in 
Great  Britain,  to  a  limited  extent,  an  ex- 
ample of  the  working  and  effects  of  a  Fed- 
eral Union,  as  we  might  expect  to  witness 
them  in  our  own  Confederation.  The  whole 
scheme  of  Confederation,  as  propounded  by 
the  Conference,  as  agreed  to  and  sanctioned 
by  the  Canadian  Government,  and  as  now 
presented  for  the  consideration  of  the  people, 
and  the  Legislature,  bears  upon  its  face  the 
marks  of  compromise.  Of  necessity  there 
must  have  been  a  great  deal  of  mutual  con- 
cession. When  we  think  of  the  representa- 
tives of  five  colonies,  all  supposed  to  have 
different  interests,  meeting  together,  charged 
with  the  duty  of  protecting  those  interests 
and  of  pressing  the  views  of  their  own  locali- 
ties and  sections,  it  must  be  admitted  that 
had  we  not  met  in  a  spirit  of  conciliation,  and 
with  an  anxious  desire  to  promote  this  union; 
if  we  had  not  been  impressed  with  the  idea 
contained  in  the  wordg  of  the  resolution — 
"  That  the  best  interests  and  present  and  fii- 
ture  prosperity  of  British  North  America 
would  be  promoted  by  a  Federal  Union  under 
the  Crown  of  Great  Britain," — all  our  efforts 
might  have  proved  to  be  of  no  avail.  If 
we  had  not  felt  that,  after  coming  to  this 
conclusion,  we  were  bound  to  set  aside  our 
private  opinions  on  matters  of  detail,  if  we 
had  not  felt  ourselves  bound  to  look  at  what 
was  practicable,  not  obstinately  rejecting  the 
opinions  of  others  nor  adhering  to  our  own  ; 
if  we  had  not  met,  I  say,  in  a  spirit  of  concili- 
ation, and  with  an  anxious,  overruling  de- 
sire to  form  one  people  under  one  government, 
we  never  would  have  succeeded.  With  these 
views,  we  press  the  question  on  this  Uouse 
and  the  country.  I  say  to  this  House,  if  you 
do  not  believe  that  the  union  of  the  colonies 
is  for  the  advantage  of  the  country,  that  the 
joining  of  these  five  peoples  into  one  nation, 
under  one  sovereign,  is  for  the  benefit  of  all, 
then  reject  the  scheme.  Reject  it  if  you  do 
not  believe  it  to  be  for  the  present  advantage 
and  future  prosperity  of  yourselves  and  your 
children.  But  if,  after  a  calm  and  full  con- 
sideration of  this  scheme,  it  is  believed,  as  a 
whole,  to  be  for  the  advantage  of  this  pro- 
vince— if  the  House  and  country  believe  this 
union  to  be  one  which  will  ensure  for  us  Bri- 
tish   laws,  British  eonnection,  and  British 


freedom — and  increase  and  develope  the  so- 
cial, political  and  material  prosperity  of  the 
country,  then  I  implore  this  House  and  the 
country  to  lay  aside  all  prejudices,  and  accept 
the  scheme  which  we  offer.  I  ask  this  House 
to  meet  the  question  in  the  same  spirit  in  which 
the  delegates  met  it.  I  ask  each  member  of 
this  House  to  lay  aside  his  own  opinions  as 
to  particular  details,  and  to  accept  the  scheme 
as  a  whole  if  he  think  it  beneficial  as  a  whole. 
As  I  stated  in  the  preliminary  discussion,  we 
must  consider  this  scheme  in  the  light  of  a 
treaty.  By  a  happy  coincidence  of  circum- 
stances, just  when  an  Administration  had  been 
formed  in  Canada  for  the  purpose  of  attempt- 
ing a  solution  of  the  diffijulties  under  which 
we  laboured,  at  the  same  time  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, actuated  by  a  similar  feeling,  appoint- 
ted  a  Conference  with  a  view  to  a  union 
among  themselves,  without  being  cognizant 
of  the  position  the  government  was  taking  in 
Canada.  If  it  had  not  been  for  this  fortunate 
coincidence  of  events,  never,  perhaps,  for  a 
long  series  of  years  would  we  have  been  able 
to  bring  this  scheme  to  a  practical  conclusion. 
But  we  did  succeed.  We  made  the  arrange- 
ment, agreed  upon  the  scheme,  and  the  depu- 
tations from  the  several  governments  repre- 
sented at  the  Conference  went  back  pledged 
to  lay  it  before  their  governments,  and  to 
ask  the  legislatures  and  people  of  their 
respective  provinces  to  assent  to  it.  I  trust 
the  scheme  will  be  assented  to  as  a  whole. 
I  am  sure  this  House  will  not  seek  to  alter  it 
in  its  unimportant  details ;  and,  if  altered  in 
any  important  provi-^ions,  the  result  must  be 
that  the  whole  will  be  set  aside,  and  we  must 
begiu  de  novo.  If  any  important  changes 
are  made,  every  one  of  the  colonies  will  feel 
itself  absolved  from  the  implied  obligation  to 
deal  with  it  as  a  Treaty,  each  province  will 
feel  itself  at  liberty  to  amend  it  ad  libitum  so 
as  to  suit  its  own  views  and  interests  ;  in  fact, 
the  whole  of  our  labours  will  have  been 
for  nought,  and  we  will  have  to  renew  our 
negotiations  with  all  the  colonies  for  the 
purpose  of  establishing  some  new  scheme. 
I  hope  the  House  will  not  adopt  any  such 
a  course  as  will  postpone,  perhaps  for  ever, 
or  at  all  events  for  a  long  period,  all  chances 
of  union.  All  the  statesmen  and  public 
men  who  have  written  or  spoken  on  the 
subject  admit  the  advantages  of  a  union, 
if  it  were  practicable  :  and  now  when  it  is 
proved  to  be  practicable,  if  wo  do  not  em- 
brace this  opportunity  the  present  favor- 
able time  will  pass  away,  and  we  may  never 


32 


have  it  again.  Because,  just  so  surely  as 
this  scheme  is  defeated,  will  be  revived  the 
original  proposition  for  a  union  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces,  irrespective  of  Canada  ;  they 
will  not  remain  as  they  are  now,  powerless, 
scattered,  helpless  communities  ;  they  will 
form  themselves  into  a  power,  which,  though 
not  so  strong  as  if  united  with  Canada,  will, 
nevertheless,  be  a  powerful  and  considerable 
community,  and  it  will  be  then  too  late  for 
us  to  attempt  to  strengthen  ourselves  by  this 
scheme,  which,  in  the  words  of  the  resolution, 
"  is  for  the  best  interests,  and  present  and 
future  prosperity  of  British  North  America." 
If  we  are  not  blind  to  our  present  position, 
we  must  see  the  hazardous  situation  in 
which  all  the  great  interests  of  Canada  stand 
in  respect  to  the  United  States.  I  am  no 
alarmist.  I  do  not  believe  in  the  prospect  of 
immediate  war.  I  believe  that  the  common 
sense  of  the  two  nations  will  prevent  a  war  ; 
still  we  cannot  trust  to  probabilities.  The 
Government  and  Legislature  would  be  want- 
ing in  tlieir  duty  to  the  people  if  they  ran 
any  risk.  We  know  that  the  United  States 
at  this  moment  are  engaged  in  a  war  of 
enormous  dimensions — that  the  occasion  of  a 
war  with  Great  Britain  has  again  and  again 
arisen,  and  may  at  any  time  in  the  fature 
again  arise.  We  cannot  foresee  what  may 
be  the  result ;  we  cannot  say  but  that  the 
two  nations  may  drift  into  a  war  as  other 
nations  have  done  before.  It  would  then 
be  too  late  when  war  had  commenced  to  think 
of  measures  for  strengthening  ourselves,  or 
to  begin  negociations  for  a  union  with  the 
sister  provinces.  At  this  moment,  in  con- 
sequence of  the  ill-feeling  which  has  arisen 
between  England  and  the  United  States — 
a  feeling  of  which  Canada  was  not  the  cause 
— in  consequence  of  the  irritation  which  now 
exists,  owing  to  the  unhappy  state  of  affairs 
on  this  continent,  the  Reciprocity  Treaty, 
it  seems  probable,  is  about  to  be  brought 
to  an  end — our  trade  is  hampered  by  the 
passport  system,  and  at  any  moment  we  may 
bo  deprived  of  permission  to  carry  our  goods 
through  United  States  channels — the  bonded 
goods  system  may  be  done  away  with,  and  the 
winter  trade  through  the  United  States  put 
an  end  to.  Our  merchants  may  be  obliged 
to  return  to  the  old  system  of  bringing  in 
during  the  summer  months  the  supplies  fur 
tbo  wliolc  year.  Ourselves  already  threat- 
ened, our  trade  interruptad,  our  intercouvHC, 
political  and  commercial,  destroyed,  if  we  do 
not  taku  warning  now  when  we  havo  the  op- 


portunity, and  while  one  avenue  is  threat- 
ened to  be  closed,  open  another  by  taking  ad- 
vantage of  the  present  arrangement  and  the 
desire  of  the  Lower  Provinces  to  draw  closer 
the  alliance  between  us,  we  itay  suffer  com- 
mercial and  political  disadvantgaes  it  may 
take  long  for  us  to  overcome.  Tlie  Confer- 
ence having  come  to  the  conclusion  that  a 
legislative  union,  pure  and  simple,  was  im- 
practicable, our  next  attempt  was  to  form  a 
government  upon  federal  principles,  which 
would  jgive  to  the  General  Government  the 
strength  of  a  legislative  and  administrative 
union,  while  at  the  same  time  it  preserved 
that  liberty  of  action  for  the  different  sec- 
tions which  is  allowed  by  a  Federal  Union. 
And  I  am  strong  in  the  belief — that  we 
have  hit  upon  the  happy  medium  in  those 
resolutions,  and  that  we  have  formed  a  scheme 
of  government  which  unites  the  advantages 
of  both,  giving  us  the  strength  of  a  legisla- 
tive union  and  the  sectional  freedom  of  a 
federal  union,  with  protection  to  local  inter- 
ests. In  doing  so  wc  had  the  advantap-e  of 
the  experience  of  the  United  States.  It  is 
the  fashion  now  to  enlarge  on  the  defects  of 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States,  but  1 
am  not  one  of  those  who  look  upon  it  a.s  a 
failure.  ^^Hear,  hear.)  I  think  and  believe 
that  it  is  one  of  the  most  skillful  works 
which  human  intelligence  ever  created ;  is 
one  of  the  most  perfect  organizations  that 
ever  governed  a  free  people.  To  say  that  it 
has  some  defects  ia  but  to  say  that  it  is  not 
the  work  of  Omniscience,  but  of  human  in- 
tellects. We  are  happily  situated  in  having 
had  the  opportunity  of  watching  its  ope- 
ration, seeing  its  working  from  its  infancy 
till  now.  It  was  in  the  main  formed  on  the 
model  of  the  Constitution  of  Great  Britain, 
adapted  to  the  circumstances  of  a  new  coun- 
try, and  was  perhaps  the  only  practicable  sys- 
tem that  could  have  been  adopted  under  the 
circumstances  existing  at  the  time  of  its 
formation.  We  can  now  take  advantage  of 
the  experience  of  the  last  seventy-eight  years, 
during  which  that  Constitution  has  existed, 
and  I  am  strongly  of  the  belief  that  we  havo, 
in  a  great  measure,  avoided  in  this  system 
which  wc  propose  for  the  adoption  of  the 
people  of  Canada,  the  defects  which  time 
and  events  havo  shown  to  exist  in  thcAmer- 
ioan  Constitution.  In  the  first  place,  by.  a 
resolution  which  meets  with  the  universal 
approval  of  the  people  of  this  country,  we 
havo  provided  that  for  all  time  to  come,  so 
far  as  we  can  legislate   for  the  future,  we 


35 


shall  have  as  the  head  of  the  executive  pow- 
er, the  Sovereign  of  Great  Britain.  (Hear, 
hear.)  No  one  can  look  into  futurity  and 
say  what  will  be  the  destiny  of  this  country. 
Changes  come  over  nations  and  peoples  in 
the  course  of  ages.  But,  so  far  as  we  can 
legislate,  we  provide  that,  for  all  time  to 
come,  the  Sovereign  of  Great  Britain  shall 
be  the  Sovereign  of  British  North  America. 
By  adhering  to  the  monarchical  principle, 
we  avoid  one  defect  inherent  in  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  United  States.  By  the 
election  of  the  President  by  a  majority  and 
for  a  short  period,  he  never  is  the  sovereign 
and  chief  of  the  nation.  He  is  never  looked 
up  to  by  the  whole  people  as  the  head  and 
front  of  the  nation.  He  is  at  best  but  the 
successful  leader  of  a  party.  This  defect  is 
all  the  greater  on  account  of  the  practice  of 
re-election.  During  his  first  term  of  office, 
he  is  employed  in  taking  steps  to  secure  his 
own  re-election,  and  for  his  party  a  continu- 
ance of  power.  We  avoid  this  by  adhering 
to  the  monarchical  principle — the  Sovereign 
whom  you  respect  and  love.  I  believe  that 
it  is  of  the  utmost  importance  to  have  that 
principle  recognized,  so  that  we  shall  have 
a  Sovereign  who  is  placed  above  the  region 
cf  party— to  whom  all  partiiis  look  up — who 
is  not  elevated  by  the  action  of  one 
party  nor  depressed  by  the  action  of  an- 
other, who  is  the  common  head  and  sover- 
eign of  all.  (Hear,  hear  and  cheers.) 
In  the  Constitution  we  propose  to  continue 
the  system  of  Responsible  Government,which 
has  existed  in  this  province  since  1841,  and 
which  has  long  obtained  in  the  Mother 
Country.  This  is  a  feature  of  our  Constitu- 
tion as  we  have  it  now,  and  as  we  shall  have 
it  in  the  Federation,  in  which,  I  think,  we 
avoid  one  of  the  great  defects  in  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States.  There  the  Pre- 
sident, during  his  term  of  office,  is  in  a  great 
measure  a  despot,  a  one-man  power,  with  the 
command  of  the  naval  and  military  forces — 
with  an  immense  amount  of  patronage  as 
head  of  the  Executive,  and  with  the  veto 
power  as  a  branch  of  the  legislature,  perfect- 
ly uncontrolled  by  responsible  advisers,  his 
cabinet  being  departmental  officers  merely, 
whom  he  is  not  obliged  by  the  Constitution 
to  consult  with,  unless  he  chooses  to  do  so. 
With  us  the  Sovereign,  or  in  this  country  the 
llepresentative  of  the  Sovereign,  can  act  only 
on  the  advice  of  his  ministers,  those  ministers 
being  responsible  to  the  people  through  Par- 
liament.   Prior  to  the  formation  of  the  Amer- 

6 


..—   —.■■■■-.■       .        ■!    I   .j.r    I  I    n     I         I        II   mtmt     .       m  .  — ■  ■     i  ,  irf  iMJi  ■■«MM«^aijft 

ican  Union,  as  we  all  know,  the  different 
states  which  entered  into  it  were  separate  col- 
onies. They  had  no  connection  with  each 
other  further  than  that  of  having  a  common 
sovereign,  just  as  with  us  at  present.  Their 
constitutions  and  their  laws  were  different. 
They  might  and  did  legislate  against  each 
other,  and  when  they  revolted  against  the 
Mother  Country  they  acted  as  separate  sove- 
reignties, and  carried  on  the  war  by  a  kind 
of  treaty  of  alliance  against  the  common  ene- 
my. Ever  since  the  union  was  formed  the 
difficulty  of  what  is  called  "  State  Rights  " 
has  existed,  and  this  had  much  to  do  in 
bringing  on  tho  present  unhappy  war  in  the 
United  States.  They  commenced,  in  fact,  at 
tho  wrong  end.  They  declared  by  their  Con- 
stitution that  each  state  was  a  sovereignty  in 
itself,  and  that  all  the  powers  incident  to  a 
sovereignty  belonged  to  each  state,  except 
those  powers  which,  by  the  Constitution, 
were  conferred  upon  the  General  Govern- 
ment and  Congress.  Here  wo  have  adopted 
a  different  system.  We  have  strengthened 
the  General  Government.  We  have  given 
the  General  Legislature  all  the  great  subjects 
of  legislation.  We  have  conferred  on  them, 
not  only  specifically  and  in  detail,  all  the 
powers  which  are  incident  to  sovereignty,  but 
we  have  expressly  declared  that  all  subjects  of 
general  interest  not  distinctly  and  exclusively 
conferred  upon  the  local  governments  and 
local  legislatures,  shall  be  conferred  upon  the 
General  Government  and  Legislature. — We 
have  thus  avoided  that  great  source  of  weak- 
ness which  has  been  the  cause  of  the  disrup- 
tion of  the  United  States.  We  have  avoided 
all  conflict  of  jurisdiction  and  authority,  and 
if  this  Constitution  is  carried  out,  as  it  will 
be  in  ■'.full  detail  in  the  Impei'ial  Act  to  be 
passed  if  the  colonies  adopt  the  scheme,  we 
will  have  in  fact,  as  I  said  before,  all  the  ad- 
vantages of  a  legislative  union  under  one  ad- 
ministration, with,  at  the  same  time  the  guar- 
antees for  local  institutions  and  forlocal  laws, 
which  are  insisted  upon  by  so  many  in  the 
provinces  now,  I  hope,  to  be  united.  I  think 
it  is  well  that,  in  framing  our  Constitution — 
although  my  honorablo  friend  the  member 
for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  sneered 
at  it  the  other  day, in  the  discussion  on  the 
Address  in  reply  to  tho  speech  from  the 
Throne — our  first  act  should  have  been  to 
recognize  the  sovereignty  of  Her  Majesty. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  believe  that,  while  England 
has  no  desire  to  lose  her  colonies,  but  wishes 
to  retain  them,  while  I  am  satisfied  that  the 


34 


public  mind  of  England  would  deeply  regret 
the  los3  of  these  provinces — yet,  if  the  peo- 
ple of  British  North  America  after  full  de- 
liberation had  stated  that  they  considered  it 
was  for  their  interest,  for  the  advantage  of 
the  future  of  British  North  America  to  sever 
the  tie,  such  is  the  generosity  of  the  people 
of  England,  that,  whatever  their  desire  to 
keep  these  colonies,  they  would  not  seek  to 
compel  us  to  remain  unwilling  subjects  of  the 
British  Crown.  If  therefore,  at  the  Confer- 
ence, we  had  arrived  at  the  conclusion,  that 
it  was  for  the  interest  of  these  provinces  that  a 
severance  should  take  place,!  am  sure  that  Iler 
Majesty  and  the  Imperial  Parliament  would 
have  sanctioned  that  severance.  We  accord- 
ingly felt  that  there  was  a  propriety  in  giving 
a  distinct  declaration  of  opinion  on  that  point, 
and  that,  in  framing  the  Constitution,  its  first 
sentence  should  declare,  that  "  The  Execu 
tive  authority  or  government  shall  be  vested 
in  the  Sovereign  ot  the  United  Kingdom  of 
Great  Britain  and  Ireland,  and  be  adminis- 
tered according  to  the  well  understood  prin- 
ciples of  the  British  Constitution,  by  the 
Sovereign  personally,  or  by  the  Representa- 
tive of  the  Sovereign  duly  authorised."  That 
resolution  met  with  the  unanimous  assent  of 
the  Conference.  The  desire  to  remain  con- 
nected with  Great  Britain  and  to  retain  our 
allegiance  to  Her  Majesty  was  unanimous. 
Not  a  single  suggestion  was  made,  that  it 
could,  by  any  possibility,  be  for  the  interest 
of  the  colonies,  or  of  any  section  or  portion  of 
them,  that  there  should  be  a  severance 
of  our  connection.  Although  we  knew  it  to 
be  possible  that  Canada,  from  her  position, 
might  be  exposed  to  all  the  horrors  of  war, 
V)y  reason  of  causes  of  hostility  arising 
between  Great  Britain  and  the  United  States 
— causes  over  which  we  had  no  control,  and 
which  we  had  no  Ijand  in  bringing  about — 
yet  there  was  a  unanimous  i'eeling  of 
willingness  to  run  all  the  hazards  of  wiir,  if 
war  must  come,  rather  than  loso  the  con- 
nection between  the  Mother  Country  and 
these  colonies.  (Cheers.)  We  provide  that 
"  the  Executive  authority  shall  be  ad- 
ministered by  the  Sovereign  personally,  or 
by  the  Representative  of  the  Sovereign  duly 
authorized."  It  is  too  much  to  expect 
that  the  Queen  should  vouchsafe  us  her 
personal  governance  or  presence,  except  to 
pay  us,  as  the  heir  apparent  of  the  Throne, 
our  future  Sovereign  has  already  paid  us, 
the  graceful  compliment  of  a  visit.  The 
Executive  authority  must  therefore  be  ad- 


ministered   by    Her    Majesty's   Represcn* 
tative.     We  place  no    restriction   on    Her 
Mrjesty's   prerogative  in  the    selection    of 
her    representative.       As     it    is'   now,    so 
it  will  bo   if  this    Constitution    is    adopt- 
ed.    The  Sovereign    has  unrestricted  free- 
dom of  choice.     Whether  in  making   her 
selection   she  may  send  us  one  of  her  own 
family,  a  Royal  Prince,  as  a  Viceroy  to  rule 
over  us,  or  one  of  the  great   statesmen   of 
England    to  represent  her,    we  know  not* 
We  leave  that  to  Her  Majesty  in   all  confi- 
dence.      But    we    may    be    permitted    to 
hope,  that  when    the    union    takes   place, 
and    we    become    the  great   country  which 
British    North   America    is  certain    to    be, 
it  will  be  an  object  worthy   the   ambition 
of  the  statesmen  of  England  to  be   charged 
with  presiding  over  our   destinies.     (Hear, 
hear.)      Let    me    now    invite    the    atten- 
tion   of  the    House  to    the    provisions    in 
the    Constitution    respecting     the     legisla- 
tive   power.      The    sixth    resolution    says, 
"  There  shall  be  a  general  legislature  or  parlia- 
ment for  the  federated  provinces,  composed  of 
a  Legislative  Council  and  a  House  of  Com- 
mons."    This  resolution  has  been   cavilled 
at  in  the  English  press  as  if  it  excluded  the 
Sovereign  "as  a  portion    of  the   legislature. 
In   one   sense,  that  stricture  was  just — be- 
cause in  strict    constitutional  language,  the 
legislature  of    England  consists    of    King, 
Lords   and    Commons.     But,  on  the  other 
hand,    in    ordinary  parlance  we    speak    of 
"  the  King  and   his    Parliament,''  or   ''the 
King    summonipg    his     I'arlianient,"     the 
three     estates — Lords     spiritual,    temporal 
Lords,  and  the  House  of  Commons,  and  I 
observe  that  such  a  writer  as   Hallam  occa- 
sionally   uses  the    word   Parliament  in  that 
restricted    gonso.     At  best    i^.  is    merely   a 
verbal  critici-sm.     The  legislature  of  British 
North     America     will      be     compo.sed     of 
King,   Lords,  and   Commons.      The     Jjogi- 
slative    Council    will    stand    in     the    saino 
relation     to     the    Jiower     House,    ns     tlie 
House  of  Lords  to  tho    lloubo  of  Commons 
in    England,    having    the    same    power  of 
initiating  all  matters  of  legislation,  exeeptthe 
granting  of  money.      As  regards  tho  Lower 
House,  it  may  not  appear   to   matter  much, 
whether  it  is  called  the  House  of  Commons 
or  lit  use  of  Assembly.     It  will   bear  what- 
ever name  tho  Parliaiaent  of  Kii;-land    may 
choose  to  give  it,  but  "  Tho  House  of  Com- 
mons"   is  the  unnio   wo    should    prefer,    a^ 
shewing  that  it  represeutjj  tho  Commons  of 


35 


Canada,  in  the  same  way  that  the  English 
House  of  Commons  represents  the  Commons 
of  England,  with  the  same  privileges,  the 
game  parliamentary  usage,  and  the  same 
parliamentary  authority.  In  settling  the 
constitution  of  the  Lower  House,  that  which 
peculiarly  represents  the  people,  it  was 
agreed  that  the  principle  of  representation 
based  on  population  should  be  adopted,  and 
the  mode  of  applying  that  principle  is  fully 
developed  in  these  resolutions.  When  I 
speak  of  representation  by  population,  the 
House  will  of  course  understand,  that  univer- 
sal suifrage  is  not  in  an}'  wny  sanctioned,  or 
admitted  by  these  resolutions,  as  the  basis 
on  which  the  constitution  of  the  popular 
branch  should  rest.  In  order  to  protect 
local  interests,  and  to  prevent  sectional 
jealousies,  it  was  found  requisite  that  the 
three  great  divisions  into  which  British 
North  America  is  separated,  should  be 
represented  in  the  Upper  House  on  the 
principle  of  equality.  There  are  three  great 
sections,  having  different  interests,  in  this 
proposed  Confederatien.  Wc  have  Western 
Canada,  an  agricultural  country  far  away 
from  the  sea,  and  having  the  largest  popu- 
lation who  have  agricultural  interests  prin- 
cipally to  guard.  We  have  Lower  Canada, 
with  other  and  separate  interests,  and  espe- 
cially with  institutions  and  laws  which  she 
jealously  guards  against  absorption  by  any 
larger,  more  numerous,  or  stronger  power. 
And  we  have  the  Maritime  Provinces,  hav- 
ing also  different  sectional  interests  of  their 
own,  having,  from  their  position,  classes  and 
interests  which  we  do  not  know  in  Western 
Canada.  Accordingly,  in  the  Upper  House, 
— the  controlling  and  regulating,  but  not  the 
initiating,  branch  (for  we  know  that  here  as 
in  Englaiid,  to  the  Lower  House  will  practic- 
ally belong  the  initiation  of  matters  of  gieat 
public  interest),  in  the  House  which  has  the 
sober  second-thought  in  legislation — it  is 
provided  that  each  of  those  great  sections 
shall  be  represented  equally  by  24  members. 
The  only  exception  to  that  condition  of 
equality  is  in  the  case  of  Newfoundland, 
which  has  an  interest  of  its  own,  lying,  as  it 
does,  at  the  mouth  of  the  great  river  St.  Law- 
rence, and  more  connected,  perhaps,  with 
Canada  than  with  the  Lower  Provinces.  It 
has,  comparatively  speaking,  no  common  in- 
terest with  the  other  Maritime  Provinces, 
but  has  sectional  interests  and  sectional 
claims  of  its  own  to  be  protected.  It,  there- 
fore  has  been   dealt  with   separately,   and 


is  to  have  a  separate  reprec-entation  in  the 
Upper  House,  thus  varying  from  the  equality 
established  between  the  other  sections. — 
As  may  be  well  conceived,  great  difference 
of  opinion  at  first  existed  as  to  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  Legislative  Council.  In  Canada 
the  elective  principle  prevailed ;  in  the 
Lower  Provinces,  with  the  exception  of 
Prince  Edward  Island,  the  nominative  prin- 
ciple was  the  rule.  We  found  a  general 
disinclination  on  the  part  of  the  Lower 
Provinces  to  adopt  the  elective  principle ; 
indeed,  I  do  not  think  there  was  a  dissent- 
ing voice  in  the  Conference  against  the  adop- 
tion of  the  nominative  principle,  except  from 
Prince  Edward  Island.  The  delegates  from- 
New  Brunswick,  Nova  Scotia  and  Newfound- 
land, as  one  man,  were  in  favor  of  nom- 
ination by  the  Crown.  And  nomination  by 
the  Crown  is  of  course  the  system  which  is 
most  in  accordance  with  the  British  Con- 
stitution. We  resolved  then,  that  the  con- 
stitution of  the  Upper  House  should  be  in 
accordance  with  the  British  system  as  nearly 
as  circumstances  would  allow.  An  hereditary 
Upper  House  is  impracticable  in  this  young 
country.  Here  we  have  none  of  the  elements 
for  the  formation  of  a  landlord  aristocracy — 
no  men  of  large  territorial  positions — no 
class  separated  from  the  mass  of  the  people. 
An  hereditary  body  is  altogether  unsuited  to 
our  state  of  society,  and  would  soon  dwindle 
into  nothing.  The  only  mode  of  adapting 
the  English  system  to  the  Upper  House,  is 
by  conferring  the  power  of  appointment  on 
the  Crown  (as  the  English  peers  are  appoint- 
ed), but  that  the  appointments  should  be  for 
life.  The  arguments  for  an  elective  Council 
are  numerous  and  strong;  and  I  ought  to  say 
so,  as  one  of  the  Administration  responsible 
for  introducing  the  elective  principle  into 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  hold  that  this  prin- 
ciple has  not  been  a  failure  in  Canada;  but 
there  were  causes — which  we  did  not  take 
into  consideration  at  the  time — why  it  did 
not  so  fully  succeed  in  Canada  as  we  had 
expected.  One  great  cause  was  the  enormous 
extent  of  the  constituencies  and  the  immense 
labor  which  consequently  devolved  on  those 
who  sought  the  suffrages  of  the  people  for 
election  to  the  Council.  For  the  same  reason 
the  expense — (laughter) — the  legitimate 
expense  was  so  enormous  that  men  of  stand- 
ing in  the  country,  eminently  fitted  for  such 
a  position,  were  preven'ed  from  coming 
forward.  At  first,  I  admit,  men  of  the 
first   standing   did  come   forward,   but    wc 


36 


have  seen  that  ia  every  succeeding  election 
in  both  Canadas  there  has  been  an  in- 
creasing disinclioationj  on  the  part  of 
men  of  standing  and  political  experience 
and  weight  in  the  country,  to  become  can- 
didates ;  while,  on  the  other  hand,  all  the 
young  men,  the  active  politicians,  those  who 
have  resolved  to  embrace  the  life  of  a 
statesman,  have  sought  entrance  to  the  | 
House  ol  Assembly.  The  nominative  system 
in  this  country,  was  to  a  great  extent  success- 
ful, before  the  introduction  of  responsible 
government.  Then  the  Canadas  were  to  a 
great  extent  Crown  colonies,  and  the  upper 
branch  of  the  legislature  consisted  of  gentle- 
men chosen  from  among  the  chief  judicial 
and  ecclesiastical  dignitaries,  the  heads  of 
departments,  and  other  men  of  the  lirst 
position  in  the  country.  Those  bodies  com- 
manded great  respect  from  the  character, 
standing,  and  weight  of  the  individuals  com- 
posing them,  but  they  had  little  sympathy 
with  the  people  or  their  representatives,  and 
co'lisions  with  the  Lower  House  frequently 
occurred, especially  in  Lower  Canada.  When 
responsible  government  was  introduced,  it 
became  necessary  for  the  Governor  of  the 
day  to  have  a  body  of  advisers  who  had  the 
confidence  of  the  House  of  Assembly 
which  could  make  or  unmake  mioiBtera 
as  it  chose.  The  Lower  House  in  eifect 
pointed  out  who  should  be  nominated  to  the 
Upper  House;  for  the  ministry,  being  de- 
pendent altogether  on  the  lower  branch  of 
the  legislature  for  support,  selected  members 
for  the  Upper  House  from  among  their  poli- 
tical friends  at  the  dictation  of  the  House  of 
Assembly.  The  Council  was  becoming  less 
and  less  a  substantial  check  on  the  legislation 
of  the  Assembly;  but  under  the  system  now 
proposed,  such  will  not  bo  the  case.  No 
ministry  can  in  future  do  what  they  have 
done  in  Canada  before, — they  cannot,  with 
the  view  of  carrying  any  measure,  or  of 
strengthening  the  party,  attempt  to  overrule 
the  independent  opinion  of  the  Upper  House, 
by  filling  it  with  a  number  of  its  partisans 
and  political  supporters.  The  provision  in 
/  the  Constitution,  that  the  Legislative  Council 
shall  consist  of  a  limited  number  of  members 
— that  each  of  the  great  Hections  shall  appoint 
twenty-four  members  and  no  more,  will 
prevent  the  Upper  Houst^  irom  being 
swamped  from  lime  to  time  by  the  ministry 
of  the  day,  ft»r  the  purpose  of  carrying  out 
their  own  scliemcH  or  pleasing  their  parti- 
aaoB.     The   fact  of  the   govcrnmout  being 


prevented  from  exceeding  a  limited  number 
will  preserve  t'le  independence  of  the 
Upper  House,  and  make  it,  in  reality, 
a  separate  and  distinct  chamber,  having  a 
legitimate  and  controlling  influence  in  the 
legislation  of  the  country.  The  objection  has 
been  taken  that  in  consequence  of  the  Crown 
being  deprived  of  the  right  of  unlimited 
appointment,  there  is  a  chance  of  a  dead 
lock  arising  between  the  two  branches  of 
the  legislature;  a  chance  that  the  Upper 
House  being  altogether  independent  of  the 
Sovereign,  of  the  Lower  House,  and  of  the 
advisers  of  the  Crown,  may  act  indepen- 
dently, and  so  independently  as  to  produce 
a  dead  lock.  1  do  not  ajticipatc  any  such 
result.  Ia  the  first  place  we  know  that  in 
England  it  does  not  arise.  There  would 
be  no  use  of  an  Upper  House,  if  it  did 
not  exercise,  when  it  thought  proper,  the 
right  of  opposing  or  amending  or  postponing 
the  legislation  of  the  Lower  House.  It 
would  be  of  no  value  whatever  were  it  a  mere 
chamber  for  I'cgistering  the  decrees  of  the 
Lower  House.  It  must  be  an  independent 
House,  having  a  free  action  of  its  own,  for  it 
is  only  valuable  as  being  a  regulating  body, 
calmly  considering  the  legislation  initiated 
by  the  popular  branch,  and  preventing  any 
hasty  or  ill  considered  legislation  whi'^ii  may 
come  from  that  body,  but  it  will  never  set 
itself  in  opposition  against  the  deliberate 
and  understood  wishes  of  the  people.  Even 
the  House  of  Lords,  which  as  an  hereditary 
body,  is  far  more  independent  than  one 
appointed  for  life  can  be,  whenever  it 
ascertains  what  is  the  calm,  deliberate 
will  of  the  people  of  England,  it 
yields,  and  never  iu  modern  times  has 
there  been,  iu  fact  or  act,  any  attempt  to 
overrule  the  decisions  of  tliat  House  by  tbo 
appointment  of  new  peers,  excepting,  per- 
haps, onco  in  the  reign  of  Queen  Anne.  It 
is  true  that  in  183.2  such  an  iuorea.se  was 
threatened  in  consequence  of  the  reiterated 
refusal  ol'  the  House  of  I'eers  to  p;iss  the 
Reform  Bill.  1  have  no  doubt  the  threat 
would  have  been  carried  into  efVoot,  if  ncoes- 
sary  ;  but  every  one,  even  the  Ministry  who 
advised  that  step,  admitted  that  it  would  bo 
a  revolutionary  act,  a  breach  of  the  Consti- 
tution to  do  BO,  and  it  was  because  of  tho 
necessity  of  jircventing  the  bloody  revolution 
which  hung  over  the  land,  it  (he  Keform  liill 
had  been  longer  refused  to  tho  ))eople  of  Eng- 
land, that  they  consented  to  the  bloodless 
revolution    of   overriding   tho    indopendeut 


37 


opinion  of  the  House  of  Lords  on  that  ques- 
tion.   (Hear,  hear.)    Since  that  time  it  has 
never  been  attempted,  and  I  am  satisfied  it 
will    never   be    attempted  again.      Only   a 
year  or  two  ago  the  House  of  Lords  rejected 
the  Paper  Duties  Bill,  and  they  acted  quite 
constitutionally,  according  to  the  letter  and 
as  many  think,  according  to  the  spirit  of  the 
Constitution  in  doing   so.     Yet  when  they 
found   they   had   interfered  with  a  subject 
which  the  people's  house  claimed  as  belong- 
ing of  right  to  themselves,  the  very  next 
session  they  abandoned   their   position,  not 
because  they  were  convinced  they  had  done 
wrong,   but  because    they  had    ascertained 
what  was  the  deliberate  voice  of  the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  people  ou  the  subject.     In 
^^lis   country,  we  must  remember,  that  the 
gentlemen  who  will  be  selected  for  the  Leg- 
islative  Council  stand   on  a  very  difierent 
footing  from  the  peers  of  England.     They 
have  not  like  them  any  ancestral  associations 
or  position  derived  from  history.  They  have 
not  that  direct  influence  on  the  people  them- 
selves, or  on  the  popular  branch  of  the  legis- 
lature, which  the  peers  of  England  exercise, 
from  their  great   wealth,  their  vast  territo- 
rial  possessions,   their  numerous   tenantry, 
and   that  prestige   with  which   the   exalted 
position  of  their   class  for  centuries  has  in- 
vested them.     (Hear,  hear.)     The  members 
of  our  Upper  House  will  be  like  those  of 
the  Lower,  men   of   the  people,  and  from 
the  people.     The  man  put  into  the  Upper 
House  is  as  much  a  man  of  the  people  the 
day  after,  as  the  day  before  his    elevation. 
Springing  from  the  people,  and  one  of  them, 
he  takes  Ids  seat  in  the  Council  with  all  the 
sympathies   and   feelings    of  a   man  of   the 
people,  and  when  he  returns  home,  at  the 
end  of  the  session,  he  mingles  with  them 
on  equal  terms,  and  is  influenced  by  the  same 
feelings    and    associations,   and    events,    as 
those  which    afi"ect  the    mass  around  him. 
And   is   it,   then,  to  be  supposed  that   the 
members  of  the  upper  branch  of  the  legisla- 
ture will  set  themselves  deliberately  at  work 
to  oppose  wh;.t  they  know  to  be   the  settled 
opinions  and  wishes  of  the   people   of  the 
country?     They   will  not  do   it.     There  is 
no  fear  of  a  dead  lock  between  the  two  houses. 
^  There    is  an  infinitely  greater  chance  of  a 
dead  lock  between  the  two  branches  of  the 
legislature,    should     the    elective     principle 
be  adopted,  than  with  a  nominated  chamber 
-—chosen  by  the  Crown,  and  having  no  mis- 
sion from  the  people.     The  members  of  th  j 


Upper  Chamber  would  then  come  from  the 
people  as  well  as  those  of  the  Lower  House, 
and  should  any  difi"erence  ever  arise  between 
both  branches,  the  former  could  say  to  the 
members  of  the  popular  branch — "  We  as 
much  represent  the  feelings  of  the  people  as 
you  do,  and  even  more  so;  we  are  not  elect- 
ed from  small  localities  and  for  a  short  pe- 
riod ;  you  as  a  body  were  elected  at  a  par- 
ticular time,  when  the  public  mind  was  run- 
ning in  a  particular  channel :  you   were   re- 
turned   to   Parliament,  not  so  much  repre- 
senting   the  general  views  of  the  country, 
on  general  questions,  as  upon  the  particular 
subjects  which  happened  to  engage  the  minds 
of  the  people  when  they  went  to  the  polls. 
We  have  as  much  right,  or  a  better  right, 
than  you  to  be  considered  as  representing  the 
deliberate    will   of   the    people  on  general 
questions,  and   therefore  we  will  not  give 
way."     (Hear,   hear.)     There  is,  I  repeat, 
a  greater  danger  of  an  irreconcilable  difi"er- 
ence  of  opinion  between  the  two  branches 
of  the  legislature,  if  the  upper  be  elective, 
than    if  it  holds   its   commission  from  the 
Crown.  Besides,  it  must  be  remembered  that 
an  Upper  House,  the  membeis  of  which  are  to 
be  appointed  for  life,  would  not  have  the  same 
quality  of  permanence  as  the  House  of  Lord.s; 
our  members  would  die;  strangers  would  suc- 
ceed them,  whereas  son  succeeded  father  in 
the  House  of  Lords.      Thus  the  changes  in 
the  membership  and  state  of  opinion  in  our 
Upper   House  would  always  bo  more  rapid 
than  in  the  Hoitse  of  Lords.     To  show  how 
speedily  changes  have  occurred  in  the  Upper 
House,  as  regards  life  members,  I  will  call 
the  attention  of  the  House  to  the  following 
tacts  : — At  the  call  of  the  House,  in  Febru- 
ary, 1856,  forty-two  life  members  responded  ; 
two  year's  afterwards,  in  1858,  only  thirty- 
five  answered  to  their  names;  in  1802  there 
were  only  twenty-five  life  members  left,  and 
in    1864,   but  twenty-one.      (Hear,    hear.)" 
This  shows  how  speedily  changes  take   place 
in  the  life  membership.     But  remarkable  as 
this  change  has  been,  it  is  not  so  great  as 
that   in    regard   to    the  elected   members. 
Though  the  elective'principle  only  came  into 
force  in   1856,  and    although    only  twelve 
men  w^re  elected  that  year,  and  twelve  more 
every  two  years  since,  twenty-four  changes 
liave  already  taken  place  b}'  the  decease  of 
members,  by  the  acceptance   of  oflice,  and 
by  resignation.     So  it  is  quite  clear   that, 
should  there  be  on  any  question  a  diflferenc3 
of  opinion  between  the  Upper  and  Lower 


38 


Houses,  the  government  of  the  day  being 
obliged  to  have  the  confidence  of  the 
majority  in  the  popular  branch — would, 
for  the  purpose  of  bringing  the  former  into 
accord  and  sympathy  with  the  latter,  fill  up 
any  vacancies  that  might  occur,  with  men  of 
the  same  political  feelings  and  sympathies 
with  the  Government,  and  consequently  with 
those  of  the  majority  in  the  popular  branch  ; 
and  all  the  appointments  of  ihe  Administra- 
tion would  be  made  with  the  object  of 
maintaining  the  sympathy  and  harmony  be- 
tween the  two  house?.  (Hear,  hear.)  There 
is  this  additional  advantage  to  be  expected 
from  the  limitation.  To  the  Upper  House  is 
to  be  confided  the  protection  of  sectional 
interests ;  therefore  is  it  that  the  three  great 
divisions  are  there  equally  represented,  for 
the  purpose  of  defending  such  interests 
against  the  combinations  of  majorities  in  the 
Assembly.  It  will,  therefore,  become  the 
interest  of  each  section  to  be  represented 
by  its  very  best  men,  and  the  members  of 
the  Administration  who  belong  to  each  sec- 
tion will  see  that  such  men  are  chosen,  in 
case  of  a  vacancy  in  their  section.  For  the 
same  reason  each  state  of  the  American 
Union  sends  its  two  best  men  to  represent 
itu  interests  in  the  Senate.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  provided  in  the  Constitution  that  in  the 
first  selections  for  the  Council,  regard 
shall  be  had  to  those  who  now  hold  similar 
positions  in  the  difi'ereut  colonies.  This,  it 
appears  to  me,  is  a  wise  provision.  In  all  the 
provinces,  except  Prince  Edward,  there  are 
gentlemen  who  hold  commissions  for  the 
Upper  House  for  life.  In  Canada,  there  are 
a  number  who  hold  under  that  commission  j 
but  the  majority  of  them  hold  by  a  com- 
mission, not,  perhaps,  from  a  monarchical 
point  of  view  so  honorable,  because  the 
Queen  is  the  fountain  of  honor, — but  still, 
as  holding  their  appointment  from  the 
jTEople,  they  may  be  considered  as  standing 
on  a  par  with  those  who  have  Her  Majesty's 
commission.  There  can  be  no  reason  suggest- 
ed why  those  wlio  have  had  experience  in 
legislation,  whether  they  hold  their  positions 
by  the  election  of  the  people  or  have  received 
preferment  from  the  Crown — there  is  no 
valid  reason  why  those  men  should  bo  p'as.sed 
over,  and  new  men  sought  for  to  form  the 
Legislative  Council  of  the  Confederation. 
It  is,  therefore,  provided  that  the  selection 
shall  bo  miuie  from  those  gentlemen  who  are 
now  members  of  the  upper  branch  of  the 
Legislature  in  each  of  the  colonics,  for  scats 


in  the  Legislative  Council  of  the  General 
Legislature.  The  arrangement  in  this  re- 
spect is  somewhat  similar  to  that  by  which 
Ropresentative  Peers  are  chosen  from  the 
Peers  of  Scotland  and  Ireland,  to  sit  in  the 
Parliament  of  the  United  Kingdom.  In 
like  manner,  the  members  of  the  Legislative 
Council  of  the  proposed  Confederation  will 
be  first  selected  from  the  existing  Legislative 
Councils  of  the  various  provinces.  In  the 
formation  of  the  House  of  Commons,  the 
principle  of  representation  by  population 
has  been  provided  for  in  a  manner  equally 
ingenious  and  simple.  The  introduction  of 
this  principle  presented  at  first  the  apparent 
difiiculty  of  a  cont^tantly  increasing  body 
until,  with  the  increasing  population,  it 
would  become  inconveniently  and  expen- 
sively large.  But  by  adopting  the  represen- 
tation of  Lower  Canada  as  a  fixed  standard 
— as  the  pivot  on  which  the  whole  would 
turn — that  province  being  the  best  suited  for 
the  purpose,  on  account  of  the  compara- 
tively permanent  character  of  its  population, 
and  from  its  having  neither  the  largest  nor 
least  number  of  inhabitants — we  have  been 
enabled  to  overcome  the  difficulty  I  have 
mentioned.  We  have  introduced  the  system 
of  representation  by  population  without  the 
danger  of  an  inconvenient  increase  in  the 
number  of  representatives  on  the  recurrence 
of  each  decennial  period.  The  whole  thing 
is  worked  by  a  simple  rule  of  three.  For 
instance,  we  have  in  Upper  Canada  1,400,000 
of  a  population  ;  in  Lower  Canada  1,100,000. 
Now,  the  proposition  is  simply  this — if  Lower 
Canada,  with  its  population  of  l,lO<i,000,has 
a  right  to  05  members,  how  many  members 
should  Upper  Canada  have,  with  its  larger 
population  of  1,400,001'  'i  The  same  rule 
applies  to  the  other  provinces — the  propor- 
tion is  always  observed  and  the  principle  of 
representation  by  population  carried  out, 
while,  at  the  same  time,  there  will  not  be 
decennially  an  inconvenient  increase  in  tho 
numbers  of  the  Lower  House.  At  tho  same 
time,  there  is  a  constitutional  provision  that 
hereafter,  if  deemed  advisable,  the  total 
number  of  representatives  may  be  increased 
from  104,  the  number  fixed  in  tho  fir^t 
inetancc.  In  that  case,  if  an  increase  is 
made.  Lower  Canada  is  still  to  remain  tho 
pivot  on  whioh  the  whole  ealculution  will 
turn.  If  Lower  Canada,  instead  of  sixty- 
live,  shall  havo  seventy  monibers,  then  the 
calculation  will  be,  if  Lower  Canada  has 
seventy  memhorp,  with    such  a  population, 


39 


how  many  shall  Upper  Canada  have  with  a 
larger  population  ?  I  was  in  favor  of  a  larg- 
er House  than  one  hundred  and  ninety-four, 
but  was  overruled.  I  was  perhaps  singular 
in  the  opinion,  but  I  thought  it  would  be 
well  to  commence  wiih  a  larger  representa- 
tion in  the  lower  branch.  The  arguments 
against  this  were,  that,  in  the  first  place,  it 
would  cause  additional  expense;  in  the  next 
place,  that  in  a  new  country  like  this,  we 
could  not  get  a  sufficient  number  of  qualified 
men  to  be  representatives.  Mj  reply  was 
that  the  number  is  rapidly  increasing  as 
we  increase  in  education  and  wealth  ;  that 
a  larger  field  would  be  open  to  political  am- 
bition by  having  a  larger  body  of  represen- 
tatives; that  by  having  numerous  and  small- 
er constituencies,  more  people  would  be  in- 
terested in  the  working  of  the  union,  and  that 
there  would  be  a  wider  field  for  selection  for 
leaders  of  governments  and  leaders  of  parties. 
These  are  my  individual  sentiments, — which, 
perhaps,  I  have  no  light  to  express  here — 
but  I  was  overruled,  and  we  fixed  on  the 
number  of  one  hundred  and  ninety-four, 
which  no  one  will  say  is  large  or  extensive, 
when  it  is  considered  that  our  present 
number  in  Canada  alone  is  one  hundred 
and  thirty.  The  diff'erence  between  one 
hundred  and  thirty  and  one  hundred  and 
ninety-tour  is  not  great,  considering  the  large 
increase  that  will  be  made  to  our  population 
when  Confederation  is  carried  into  eflFect. 
While  the  principle  of  representation  by  popu- 
lation is  adopted  with  respect  to  the  popular 
branch  of  the  legislature,  not  a  single  mem- 
ber of  the  Conference,  as  I  stated  before,  not 
a  single  one  of  the  representatives  of  the 
governuient  or  of  the  opposition  of  any  one 
of  the  Lower  Provinces  was  in  favor  of 
universal  suffrage.  Every  one  felt  that  in 
this  respect  the  principle  of  the  British  Con- 
stitution should  be  carried  out,  and  that  class- 
es and  property  should  be  represented  as  well 
as  numbers.  Insuperable  difficulties  would 
have  presented  themselves  if  we  had  attempt- 
ed to  settle  now  the  qualification  for  the  elec- 
tive franchise.  We  have  different  laws  in  each 
of  the  colonies  fixing  the  qualification  of  elec- 
tors for  their  own  local  legislatures  ;  and  we 
therefore  adopted  a  similar  clause  to  that 
which  is  contained  in  the  Canada  Union  Act 
of  1841,  viz.,  that  all  the  laws  which  affect- 
ed the  qualification  of  members  and  of  voters, 
which  affected  the  appointment  and  conduct 
of  returning  officers  and  the  procsedings  at 
elections,  as  well  as  the  trial  of  controverted 


elections  in  the  separate  provinces,  should 
obtain  in  the  first  election  to  the  Confederate 
Pailiament,  so  that  every  man  who  has  now 
a  vote  in  his  own  province  should  continue 
to  have  a  vote  in  choosing  a  representative 
to  the  first  Federal  Parliament.  And  it  was 
left  to  the  Parliament  of  the  Confederation, 
as  one  of  their  first  duties,  to  consider  and 
to  settle  by  an  act  of  their  own  the  qualifica- 
tion for  the  elective  franchise,  which  would 
apply  to  the  whole  Confederation.  In  consid- 
ering the  question  of  the  duration  of  Parlia- 
ment, we  came  to  the  conclusion  to  recom- 
mend a  period  of  five  years.  I  was  in  favor  of 
a  longer  period.  I  thought  that  the  duration 
of  tho  local  legislatures  should  not  be  short- 
ened so  as  to  be  less  than  four  years,  as  at  pre- 
sent, and  that  the  General  Parliament  should 
have  as  long  a  duration  as  that  of  the  United 
Kingdom.  I  was  willing  to  have  gone  to  the 
extent  of  seven  years;  but  a  term  of  five  years 
was  preferred,  and  we  had  the  example  of  the 
New  Zealand  carefully  considered,  not  only 
locally,  but  by  the  Imperial  Parliament,  and 
which  gave  the  provinces  of  those  islands 
a  general  parliament  with  a  duration  of  five 
years.  But  it  was  a  matter  of  little  import- 
ance whether  five  years  or  seven  years  was 
the  term,  the  power  of  dissolution  by  the 
Crown  having  been  reserved.  I  find,  on  look- 
ing at  the  duration  of  parliaments  since  the 
accession  of  George  III.  to  the  Throne,  that 
excluding  the  present  parliament,  there  have 
been  seventeen  parliaments,  the  average  pe- 
riod of  whose  existence  has  been  about 
three  years  and  a  half.  That  average  is  less 
than  the  average  duration  of  tho  parliaments 
in  Canada  since  the  union,  so  that  it  was 
not  a  matter  of  much  importance  whether  wo 
fixed  upon  five  or  seven  years  as  the  period 
of  duration  of  our  General  Parliament.  A 
good  dealof  misapprehension  has  arisen  from 
the  accidental  omission  of  some  words  from 
the  2-ith  resolution.  It  was  thought  that  by 
it  the  local  legislatures  were  to  have  the 
power  of  arranging  hereafter,  and  from  time 
to  time  of  readjusting  the  different  constitu- 
encies and  settling  the  size  and  boundaries 
of  the  various  electoral  districts.  The  mean- 
ing of  the  resolution  is  simply  this,  that  for 
the  first  General  Parliament,  the  arrange- 
ment of  constituencies  shall  be  made  by  the 
existing  local  legislatures;  that  in  Canada, 
for  instance,  the  present  Canadian  Parliament 
shall  arrange  what  are  to  be  the  constituen- 
cies of  Upper  Canada,  and  to  make  such 
.  changes  as  may  be  necessary  in  arranging 


40 


for  the  seventeen  additional  members  given 
to  it  by  tlie  Constitution  ;  and  that  it  may 
also,  if  it  sees  fit,  alter  the  boundaries  of  the 
existing   constituencies   of    Lower  Canada. 
Tn  short,  this  Parliament  shall  settle  what 
shall  be  the  different  constituencies  electinfr 
members   to   the  first  Federal  Parliament. 
And  so  the  other  provinces,  the  legislatures 
of  which  will  fix  the  limits  of  their  several 
constituencies  in  the  session  in  which  they 
adopt  the  new  Constitution.   Afterwards  the 
local  legislatures  may  alter  their  own  electo- 
ral limits  as  they  please,  for  their  own  local 
elections.     But  it  would  evidently  be  un- 
proper  to  leave  to  the  Local  Legislature  the 
power   to  alter   the   constituencies  sending 
members  to  the  General  Legislature  after 
the    General    Legislature  shall    have   been 
called  into  existence.     Were  this  the  case,  a 
member   of  the  General  Legislature  might 
at  any  time  find  himself  ousted  from  his  seat 
by  an  alteration  of  his  constituency  by  the 
Local  Legislature  in  his  section.     No,  after 
the  General  Parliament  meets,  in  order  that 
it  may  have  full  control  of  its  own  legislation, 
and  be  assured  of  its  position,  it  must  have 
the  full  power  of  arranging  and  re-arranging 
the  electoral  limits  of  its  constituencies  as  it 
pleases,  such  being  one  of  the  powers  essen- 
tially necessary  to  such  a  Legislature.  (Hear, 
hear.)     I  shall  not  detain  the    House  by 
entering  into  a  consideration  at  any  length 
of    the    different    powers    conferred    upon 
the    General    Parliament    as    contradistin- 
guished      from       those     reserved     to  the 
local  legislatures;  but  any  honorable  mem- 
ber   on    cxaniiuing    the    list    of    different 
subjects    which   are  to  be   assigned  to    the 
General  and  Local  Legislatures  respectively, 
will  see  that  all  the  great  questions  which 
affect  the  general  interests  of  the  Confederacy 
as  a  whole,  are  con  filled  to  the  Federal  Par- 
liament, while  the  local  interests  and  local 
laws  of  each    section   are   preserved  intact, 
and    entru.sted    to    the    care   of   the    local 
bodies.     Asa  matter  of  course,  the  General 
Parliament  must  have  the  power  of  dealing 
with   the   public   debt  and   property  of  the 
Confederation.     Of  course,  too,  it  must  have 
the  regulation  of  trade  and    commerce,  of 
customs  and    excise.     The   Federal    l*arlia- 
incnt  niu.st  have  the  sovereign  power  of  rais- 
ing money  from  such  sources  and  by  such 
means  as  the   representatives  of  the  people 
will  allow,      it  will    be  seen  that  the   local 
legislatures   have   tho    control    of   all    local 
works ;  and  it  is  ti  matter  ofgreat  importance, 


and  one  of  the  chief  advantages  of  the  Federal 
Union  and  of  local  legislatures,  thrt   each 
province  will  have  the  power  and  means  of 
developing  its  own  resources  and  aiding  its 
own  progress  after  its  own  fiishion  and  in  its 
own  way.     Therefore  all  the  local  improve- 
ments, all  local  enterprizes  or  undertakings  of 
any     kind,    have    been    left    to    the    care 
and  management  of  the  local  legislaturea 
of  each    province.      (Cheers.)     It   is    pro- 
vided   that  all    '•'  lines    of  steam   or   other 
ships,    railways,    canals    and   other   works, 
connecting  any  two  or  more  of  the  prov- 
inces  together   or    extending    beyond    the 
limits  of  any  province,"  shall  belong  to  the 
General  Government,  and  be  under  the  con- 
trol of  the  General    Legislature.      In   like 
manner  "  lines  of  steamships  between  the 
Federated   Provinces    and  other   countries, 
telegraph  communication  and  the   incorpor- 
ation of  telegraph  companies,  and  all  such 
works  as  shall,  although  lying  within  any 
province,  be  specially  declared  by  the  Acts 
authorizing  them,  to  be  for  the  general  ad- 
vantage," shall  belong  to  the  General  Go- 
vernment.    For  instance,  theWelland  Canal, 
though  lying  wholly  within  one  section,  and 
the  St.  Lawrence  Canals  in  two   only,  may 
be  properly  considered  national  works,  and 
for  the  general  benefit  of  the  whole  Feder- 
ation.    Again,  the  census,  the  ascertaining 
of  our  numbers  and  the  extent  of  our  re- 
sources, must,  as  a  matter  of  general  interest, 
belong  to  the  General  Government.     So  also 
with  the  defences  of  the  country.     One  of 
the  great  advantages  of  Confederation  is,  that 
we   shall  have  a  united,   a  concerted,   and 
uniform  system  of  defence.    (Hear.)  We  are 
at  this    moment    with   a    diffarent    militia 
system  in   each    colony — in   some   of    the 
colonies  with  an  utter  want  of    any  system 
of  defence.     We  have  a  number  of"  separate 
stafl"  establi.shments,   without  any   arrange- 
ment between  the   colonies  as  to  the  means, 
either  of  defence   or  offence.       Hut,    under 
the  union,  we  will  have  one  sy.stom  vl'  defence 
and  one  system  of  militia  organiz:ition.      In 
the    event   of    the   Lower  Provinces  being 
threatened,  we  can  send    the    large    militia 
forces  of  Upper   Canada  to    their   rescue. 
Should  we  have  to  fight  on  our  lake^  against 
a  foreign  foe,  we  will  have  the  hardy  seaiiH-ii 
of  the  Jjower  Provinces  coming  to  our   as 
sistance  and  manning  our  vessels.       (Flear, 
hear.)      We  will  have  oiic  system  of  defcnci- 
and  bo  one  people,  acting  together   alike  in 
peace  and  in  war.     (Cheers.)     Tho  crinunni 


41 


law  too — the  determination  of  what  is  a 
crime  and  what  is  not  and  how  crime  shall 
be  punished — is  left  to  the  General  Grovorn- 
ment.  This  is  a  matter  almost  of  necessity. 
It  is  of  great  importance  that  we  should  have 
the  same  criminal  law  throughout  these  pro- 
vinces— that  what  is  a  crime  in  one  part  of 
British  America,  should  be  a  crime  in  every 
part — that  there  should  be  the  same  pro- 
tection of  life  and  property  as  in  another. 
It  is  one  of  the  defects  in  the  United  States 
system,  that  each  separate  state  has  or  may 
have  a  criminal  code  of  its  own, — that  what 
may  be  a  capitiJ  offence  in  one  state,  may 
be  a  venial  offence,  punishable  slightly,  in 
another.  But  under  our  Constitution  we 
shall  have  one  body  of  criminal  law,  based  on 
the  criminal  law  of  England,  and  operating 
equally  throughout  British  America,  so  that 
a  British  American,  belonging  to  what 
province  he  may,  or  going  to  any  other 
part  of  the  Confederation,  knows  what  his 
rights  are  in  that  respect,  and  what  his 
punishment  will  be  if  an  offender  against  the 
criminal  laws  of  the  land.  I  think  this  is  one 
of  the  most  most  marked  instances  in  which 
we  take  advantage  of  the  experience  derived 
from  our  observations  of  the  defects  in  the 
Constitution  of  the  neighboring  Republic. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  33rd  provision  is  of  very 
great  importance  to  the  future  well-being  of 
these  colonies.  It  commits  to  the  G-eneral 
Parliament  the  "  rendering  uniform  all  or 
any  of  the  laws  relative  to  property  and  civil 
rights  in  Upper  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island,  and  rendering  uniform  the  pro- 
cedure of  all  or  any  of  the  courts  in  these 
provinces."  The  great  principles  which 
gevern  the  laws  of  all  the  provinces,  with 
the  single  exception  of  Lower  Canada,  are 
the  same,  although  there  maybe  a  divergence 
in  details ;  and  it  is  gratifying  to  find,  on  the 
part  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  a  general  de- 
sire to  join  together  with  Upper  Canada  in 
this  matter,  and  to  procure,  as  soon  as  possi- 
ble, an  assimilation  of  the  statutory  laws  and 
the  procedure  in  the  courts,  of  all  these  pro- 
vinces. At  present  there  is  a  good  deal  of 
diversity.  In  one  of  the  colonies,  for  in- 
stance, they  have  no  municipal  system  at  all. 
In  another,  the  municipal  system  is  merely 
permissive,  and  has  not  been  adopted  to  any 
extent.  Althou^-h,  therefore,  a  legislative 
union  was  found  to  be  almost  impracticable, 
it  was  understood,  so  far  as  we  could  influence 
the  future,  that  the  first  act  of  the  Confeder- 


ate Government  should  be  to  procure  an  as- 
similation of  the  statutory  law  of  all  those 
provinces,  which  has,  as  its  root  and  founda- 
tion, the  common  law  of  England.     But  to 
prevent  local  interests  frombeing  over-ridden, 
the  same  section  makes  provision,  that,  while 
power  is  given  to  the  General  Legislature  to 
deal   with  this  subject,  no   change   in  this 
respect  should  have  the  force  and  authority 
of  law  in  any  province  until  sanctioned  by 
the  Legislature   of  that  province,       (Hear, 
hear.)     The  General  Legislature  is  to  have 
power  to  establish  a,  general  Court  of  Appeal 
for  the  Federated  Provinces.     Although  the 
Canadian    Legislature   has   always  had  the 
power  to  establish  a  Court  of  Appeal,  to 
which  appeals  may  bo  made  from  the  courts 
of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  we  have  never 
availed  ourselves  of  the  power.     Upper  Can- 
ada has  its  own   Court  of   Appeal,  so  has 
Lower  Canada.     And  this  system  will  con- 
tinue until  a  General  Court  of  Appeal  shall 
be  established  by  the  General  Legislature. 
The  Constitution  does  not  provide  that  such 
a  court  shall  be  establij^hed.  There  are  many 
arguments  for  and  against  the  establishment 
of  such   a  court.     But  it  was  thought  wise 
and  expedient  to  put  into  the  Constitution  a 
power  to  the  General  Legislature,  that,  if 
after  full  consideration  they  think  it  advisa- 
ble to  establish  a  General   Court  of  Appeal 
from  all  the  Superior  Courts  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, they  may  do  so.    (Hear,  hear.)     I 
shall  not  go  over  the  other  powers  that  are 
conferred  oo  the  General  Parliament.     Most 
of  them  refer  to  matters     of  financial   and 
commercial   interest,  and  I  leave  those  sub- 
jects in  other  and  better  hands.     Besides 
ail  the  powers  that  are  specifically  given  in 
the  37th  and  last  item  of  this  portion  of  the 
Constitution,  confers  on  the  General  Legis- 
lature the  general  mass  of  sovereign  legisla- 
tion, the  power  to  legislate  on  "  all  matters 
of  a  general  character,  not  specially  and  ex- 
clusively reserved  for  the  local  governments 
and   Isgislatures."      This   is    precisely  the 
provision  which  is  wanting  in  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States.  It  is  here  that  we 
find  the  weakness  of  the  American  system — 
the  point  where  the  American   Constitution 
breaks  down.  (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  in  itself  a 
wise  and  necessary  provision.    We  thereby 
strengthen  the  Central  Parliament,  and  make 
the  Confederation  one  people  and  one  govern- 
ment, instead  of  five  peoples  and  five  govern- 
ments, with  merely  a  point  of  authority  con- 
necting us  to  a  limited  and  insufficient  extent. 


<4f2 


With  respect  to  the  local  governments,  it  is 
provided  that  each  shall  be  governed  by  a 
chief  executive  ofiBcer,  who  shall  be  nomin- 
ated by  the  General  Government.     As  this  is 
to  be  one  united  province,  with  the  local 
fovernments  and  legislatures  subordinate  to 
the  General  Government  and  Legislature,  it  is 
obvious  that  the  chief  executive  ofl&cer  in 
each  of  the  provinces  must  be  subordinate 
as  well.  (The  General  Government  assumes 
towards  tne  local  governments  precisely  the 
same  position  as  the  Imperial  Government 
holds  with  respect  to  each  of  the  colonies 
now.lso  that  as  the  Lieutenant  Governor  of 
each  of  the  different  provinces  is  now  ap- 
pointed directly  by  the  Queen,  and  is  direct- 
ly responsible,  and  reports  directly  to  Her, 
so  will  the  executives  of  the  local  govern- 
ments hereafter  be  subordinate  to  the  Rep- 
resentative of  the  Queen,  and  be  respoosible 
and  report  to  him.     Objection  has  been  tak- 
en  that  there   is   an  infringement  of  the 
Royal  prerogative  in  giving  the  pardoning 
power  to  the  luCal  governors,  who  are  not 
appointed  directly  by  the  Crown,  but  only 
indirectly  by  the.  Chief  Executive  of  the 
Confederation,  who    is    appointed    by  the 
Crown.     Tliis  provision  was  icserted  in  the 
Constitution  on  account  of  the  practical  dif- 
ficulty which    must  arise  if    the  power  is 
confined  to  the  Governor  General.     For  ex- 
ample, if  a  question   arose  about  the  dis- 
charge of  a  prisoner  convicted  of  a  minor 
offence,  say  iu  Newfoundland,  who  might  be 
in  imminent  danger  of  losing  his  life  if  he 
remained  in  confinement,  the  exercise  of  the 
pardoning  power  might  come  too  late  if  it 
were  necessary  to  wait  for  the  action  of  the 
Governor  General.     It  must  be  remembered 
that  the  pardoning  power  not  only  extends 
to  capital  caocs,  but  to  every  case  of  convic- 
tion aud  sentence,  no   matter  how  trifling — 
even  to  the  case  of  a  fine  in  the  nature  of  a 
Bentence  on  a  criminal  conviction.  It  extends 
to  innumerable  cases,  where,  if  the  responsi- 
bility  for  its   exercide   were   thrown  on  the 
General  Executive,  it  could  not  be  so  satis- 
factorily discharged,     Of  course  there  must 
be,  iu  oacli  province,  a  legal  adviser  of  the 
Executive,    occupying   the    position  of  our 
Attorney  General,  as  there  is  in  every  state  of 
the  American   Union.     This  officer   will  bo 
an  officer  of  the  Local  Government ;  but,  if 
tho   pardoning   power    ia    reserved    lor    the 
Chief  (ilxecuiive,  there  must,  iu  every  case 
wheie  tho  exercise  of  tho  pardoning  power  is 
sought,  be  u  direct  oomumnication  aud  report 
from   tho   local   law   officer  to  tho  Governor 


General.     The   practical   inconvenience   of 
this    was   felt   to  be  so  great,  that  it  was 
thought  well  to  propose  the  arrangement  we 
did,  without  any  desire  to  infringe  upon  the 
prerogatives  of  the  Crown,  for  our  whole  ac- 
tion shews  that  the  Conference,  in  every  step 
they  took,  were  actuated  b^  a  desire  to  guard 
jealously  these  prerogatives.     (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  a  subject,  however,  of  Imperial  interest, 
and  if  the  Imperial  Government  and  Imperial 
Parliament  are  not  convinced   by  the  argu- 
ments we  will  be  able  to  press  upon  them  for 
the    continuation    of   that   clause,   then,   of 
course,  as  the  over-ruling  power,  they  may 
set  it  aside.     (Hear,  hear.)     There  arc  nu- 
merous subjects  which  belong,  of  right,  both 
to  the  Local  and  the  General  Parliaments. 
In  all  these  cases  it  is  provided,  in  order 
to   prevent    a    conflict   of    authority,    that 
where  there  is  concurrent  jurisdiction  in  tho 
General  and  Local  Parliaments,  the  same  rule 
should  apply  as  now  applies  in  cases   where 
there  is  concurrent  jurisdiction   in  the  Im- 
perial and  in  the  Provincial  Parliaments,  and 
that  when  the  legi.^lation  of  the  one  is  adverse 
to  or  contradictory  of  the  legislation  of  tho 
other,  in  all  such   cases  the  action  of  the 
General  Parliament  must  overrule,  ex-neces- 
sitate,  the  action  of  the  Local  Legislature. 
(Hear,  hear  )     We  have  introduced  also  all 
those  provisions  which  are  necessary  in  order 
to  the  full  working  out  of  the  British  Consti- 
tution in  these  provinces.     We  provide  that 
there  shall  be  no  money  votes,  unless  those 
votes  are   introduced  in  the  popular  branch 
of  the  Legislature  on  the  authority  of  the 
responsible    advisers    of  the    Crown — those 
with  whom  the  responsibility  rests  of  equal- 
izing revenue  and  expenditure — that  there 
can  be   no  expenditure  or  authorization   of 
expenditure  by  Address  or  iu  any  other  way 
unless  initiated  by  the  Crown  on  the  advice 
of  its  respousible  advisers.     (Hear,  hear.) 
As   regards    the    financial    features    of  the 
scheme,   the   arrangements   made   as  to  the 
present  liabilities  of  the  several   provinces, 
and  tho  future  liabilities  of  the  Confedera- 
tion, on  these  aud  kindred   matters,  1  have 
no    doubt    that    my    ht)norable    friends,  the 
Finance   Minister  and  tho  President  of  the 
Council,  will  speak  at  full   lon-^th,  and   that 
they  will  bo  able  to  .shew  you  tliat  this  branch 
of  tho  subject  has  received   the  fullest  con- 
sideration.      I    fed    I    wmild    be    intruding 
mysell'  unnecessarily  on  the  House  if,   with 
my  inferior  knowledge  of  those  subjects  I 
were  to  detain  you  by  venturing  to  speak   of 
them,  when  1  know  that  they  wi"  '  e  so  ably 


43 


and  fully  gone  into  •  by  my  two  honorable 
friends.  The  last  resolution  of  any  import- 
ance is  one  which,  although  not  aflfecting  the 
substance  of  the  Constitution,  is  of  interest  to 
us  all.  It  is  that  ''  Her  Majesty  the  Queen 
be  solicited  to  determine  the  rank  and  name 
of  the  federated  provinces."  I  do  not  know 
whether  there  will  be  any  expression  of 
opinion  in  this  House  on  this  subject — 
whether  we  are  to  be  a  vice-royalty,  or  whether 
we  are  still  to  retain  our  name  and  rank  as  a 
province.  But  I  have  no  doubt  Her  Majesty 
will  give  the  matter  Her  gracious  considera- 
tion, that  She  will  give  us  a  name  satisfactory 
to  us  all,  and  that  the  rank  She  will  confer 
upon  us  will  be  a  rank  worthy  of  our  position, 
of  our  resources,  and  of  our  future.  (Cheers.) 
Let  me  again,  before  I  sit  down,  impress  upon 
this  I  House  the  necessity  of  meeting  this 
question  in  a  spirit  of  compromise,  with  a 
disposition  to  judge  the  matter  as  a  whole, 
to  consider  whether  really  it  is  for  the  benefit 
and  advantage  of  the  country  to  form  a  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces  ;  and  if 
honorable  gentlemen,  whatever  may  have 
been  their  preconceived  ideas  as  to  the 
merits  of  the  details  of  this  measure,  whatever 
may  still  be  their  opinions  as  to  these  details, 
if  they  really  believe  that  the  scheme  is  one 
by  which  the  prosperity  of  the  country  will 
be  increased,  and  its  future  progress  secured, 
I  ask  them  to  yield  their  own  views,  and  to 
deal  with  the  scheme  according  to  its  merits 
as  one  great  whole.  (Hear,  hear.)  One 
argument,  but  not  a  strong  one,  has  been 
used  against  this  Confederation,  that  it  is  an 
advance  towards  independence.  Some  are 
apprehensive  that  the  very  fact  of  our  forming 
this  union  will  hasten  the  time  when  we  shall 
be  severed  from  the  mother  country.  I  have 
no  apprehension  of  that  kind.  I  believe  it 
will  have  the  contrary  efi"ect.  I  believe  that 
as  we  grow  stronger,  that,  as  it  is  felt  in 
England  we  have  become  a  people,  able  from 
our  union,  our  strength,  our  population,  and 
the  development  of  our  resources,  co  take 
our  position  among  the  nations  of  the  world, 
she  will  be  less  willing  to  part  with  us  than 
she  would  be  now,  when  we  are  broken  up 
into  a  number  of  insignificant  colonies,  sub- 
ject to  attack  piece-meal  without  any  con- 
certed action  or  common  organization  of 
defence.  I  am  strongly  of  opinion  that 
year  by  year,  as  we  grow  in  population  and 
strength,  England  will  more  see  the  advan- 
tages of  maintaining  the  alliance  between 
British  North  America  and  herself.      Does 


any  one  imagine  that,  when  our   population 
instead  of  three  and  a-half,  will   be   seven 
millions,  as  it  will  be  ^e  many  years  pass, 
we  would  be  one  whit  more  willing  than  now 
to    sever    the    connection    with     England  ? 
Would  not  those  seven  millions  be  just  as 
anxious  to  maintain  their  allegiance  to   the 
Queen    and    their     connection     with    the 
Mother  Country,  as  we  are  now  ?     Will  the 
addition  to  our  numbers  of   the  people   of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  in  any  way  lessen  our 
desire  to  continue  our  connection  with   the 
Mother  Country  ?     I  believe  the  people  of 
Canada  East  and    West  to    be    truly   loyal. 
But,  if  they  can  by  possibility  be  exceeded 
in  loyalty,  it  is  by  the   inhabitants   of  the 
Maritime  Provinces.     Loyalty  with  them  is 
an  overruling  passion.     (Hear,    hear.)     In 
all  parts  of  the  Lower  Provinces  there  is  a 
rivalry  between  the  opposing  political  parties 
as  to  which  shall  most  strongly  express  and 
most   effectively  carry  out  the  principle  of 
loyalty  to  Her  Majesty,  and  to  the  British 
Crown.     (Hear,  hear.)     When  this    union 
takes  place,  we  will  be  at  the  outset  no  incon- 
siderable people.     We  find  ourselves  with  a 
population  approaching  four  millions  of  souls. 
Such  a  population  in  Europe  would  make  a 
second,  or  at  least,  a  third  rate  power.     And 
with  a  rapidly  in  creasing  population — for  I  a 
satisfied  that  under  this  union  our  popula- 
tion will  increase  in  a  still  greater  ratio  than 
ever  before — with  increased  credit — with  a 
higher  position  in  the  eyes  of  Europe — with 
the  increased  security  we  can  oflfer  to  immi- 
grants, who  would  naturally  prefer  to  seek  a 
new  home  in  what  is  known  to  them  as  a 
great  country,  than  in  any  one  little  colony 
or  another — with  all  this  I  am  satisfied  that, 
great  as  has  been  our  increase  in  the  last 
twenty-five  years  since  the  union  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  our  future  pro- 
gress, during  the  aext  quarter  of  a  century, 
will   be   vastly  greater.      (Cheers.)      And 
when,  by  means  of  this   rapid  increase,  we 
become  a  nation  of  eight  or  nine  millions  of 
inhabitants,  our  alliance  will  be  worthy  of 
being  sought  by  the   great  nations  of  the 
earth.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  am  proud  to  believe 
that  our  desire  for  a  permanent  alliance  will 
be  reciprocated  in  England.     I  know  that 
there  is  a  party  in  England — but  it  is   in- 
considerable  in  numbers,  though  strong  ia 
intellect  and  power — which  speaks   of  the 
desirability  of  getting  rid  of  the  colonies  ;  but 
I  believe  such  is  not  the  feeling  of  the  states- 
men aud  the  people  of  England.     I  believe 


44 


it  will  never  be  the  deliberately  expressed 
determination  of  the  Government  of  Great 
Britain.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  colonies  are 
now  in  a  transition  state.  Gradually  a  dif- 
ferent colonial  system  is  being  developed — 
and  it  will  become,  year  by  year,  less  a  cai^e 
of  dependence  on  our  part,  and  of  overruling 
protection  on  the  part  of  the  Mother  Coun- 
try, and  more  a  case  of  a  healthy  and  cordial 
alliance.  Instead  of  looking  upon  us  as  a 
merely  dependent  colony,  England  will  have 
in  us  a  friendly  nation — a  subordinate  but 
still  a  powerful  people — to  stand  by  her  in 
North  America  in  peace  or  in  war.  (Cheers.) 
The  people  of  Australia  will  be  such  another 
subordinate  nation.  And  England  will  have 
this  advantage,  if  her  colonies  progress 
under  the  new  colonial  system,  as  I  believe 
they  will,  that,  though  at  war  with  all  the 
rest  of  the  world,  she  will  be  able  to  look  to 
the  subordinate  nations  in  alliance  with  her, 
and  owning  allegiance  to  the  same  Sovreign, 
who  will  assist  in  enabling  her  again  to 
meet  the  whole  world  in  arms,  as  she  has 
done  before.  (Cheers.)  And  if,  in  the  great 
Napoleonic  war,  with  every  port  in  Europe 
closed  against  her  commerce,  she  was  yet 
able  to  hold  her  own,  how  much  more  will 
that  be  the  case  when  she  has  a  colonial  em- 
pire rapidly  increasing  in  power,  in  wealth, 
in  influence,  and  in  position.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  true  that  we  stand  in  danger,  as  we 
have  stood  in  danger  again  and  again  in 
Canada,  of  being  plunged  into  war  and  suf- 
fering all  its  dreadful  consequences,  as  the 
result  of  causes  over  which  we  have  no  con- 
trol, by  reason  of  their  connection.  This, 
however,  did  not  intimidate  us.  At  the 
very  mentien  of  the  prospect  of  a  war  some 
time  ago,  how  were  the  feelings  of  the  people 
aroused  from  one  extremity  of  liritish  Ame- 
rica to  the  other,  and  preparations  made  lor 
meeting  its  worst  consequences.  Although 
the  people  of  this  country  arc  fully  aware 
of  the  horrors  of  war — should  a  war  arise, 
unfortunately,  between  the  United  States 
and  England,  and  we  all  pray  it  never  may 
— they  are  still  ready  to  encounter  all  perils 
of  that  kind,  for  the  sake  of  the  coniioctiou 
with  England.  There  in  not  one  adverse 
voice,  not  one  adverse  opinion  on  that  point. 
We  all  feel  the  advantages  we  derive  IVoin 
our  connection  with  England.  So  long  as 
that  alliance  is  maintained,  we  onjuy,  under 
hor  protection,  the  privileges  of  eonstitu- 
tional  liberty  according  to  the  liritiMh  sys 
torn.     Wo  will  onjoy  hero  that  whioh  is  the 


great  test  of  constitutional  freedom — we  will 
have  the  rights  of  the  minority  respected. 
(Hear,  hear.)  In  all  countrie.'*  the  rights 
of  the  majority  take  care  of  themselves,  but 
it  is  only  in  countries  like  England,  enjoy- 
ing constitutional  liberty,  and  safe  from  the 
tyrany  of  a  single  despot  or  of  an  unbridled 
democracy,  that  the  riglits  of  minorities  are 
regarded.  So  long,  too,  as  we  form  a  portion 
of  the  British  Empire,  we  shall  have  the  ex- 
ample of  her  free  institution.s,  of  the  high 
standard  of  the  character  of  her  statesmen 
and  public  men,  of  the  purity  of  her  legis- 
lation, and  the  upright  administration  of 
her  laws.  In  this  younger  country  one 
great  advantage  of  our  connection  with 
Great  Britain  will  be,  that,  under  her 
auspices,  inspired  by  her  example,  a  portion 
of  her  empire,  our  public  men  will  be  actu- 
ated by  principles  similar  to  those  which 
actuate  the  statesmen  at  home.  These  al- 
though not  material,  physical  benefits,  of 
which  you  can  make  an  arithmetical  calcu- 
lation, are  of  such  overwhelming  advantage 
to  our  future  interests  and  standing  as  a 
nafion,  that  to  obtain  them  is  well  worthy 
of  any  sacrifices  we  may  be  called  upon  to 
make,  and  the  people  of  this  country  are 
ready  to  make  them.  (Cheers.)  We  nhould 
feel,  also,  sincerely  grateful  to  benificent 
Providence  that  we  have  had  the  opportun- 
ity vouchsafed  us  of  calmly  considering  this 
great  constitutional  change,  this  peaceful 
revolution — that  we  have  not  been  hurried 
into  it,  like  the  United  States,  by  the  ex- 
igencies of  war — that  we  have  not  had  a 
violent  revolutionary  period  forced  on  us,  as 
in  other  nations,  by  hostile  action  from  with- 
out, or  by  domestic  dissensions  within.  11  ere 
we  are  in  peace  and  prospeiity,  under  the 
fostering  government  of  Great  Britain — 
a  dependent  people,  with  a  government 
having  only  a  limited  and  dele;:ated  au- 
thority, and  yet  allowed,  without  restric- 
tion, and  without  jealousy  on  the  part  of 
the  Mother  Country,  to  leiiislate  for  our- 
selves, and  peacefully  and  deliberately  to 
consider  and  determine  the  future  of  (.'ana- 
da  and  of  British  North  .\nieriea.  It  is 
our  happiness  to  know  the  expresRiun  of  the 
will  of  our  Gracious  Sovereign,  thrcmgh  Her 
Ministers,  that  we  hnve  her  lull  sanoticm  for 
our  deliberations,  that  Her  only  solioitudo  it> 
that  wo  shall  tidupt  a  systom  \s  hich  shall  be 
really  for  our  advantage,  and  that  She  prom- 
ises to  sanction  whatever  eonelusiun  alter  full 
deliberation  we  may  arrive  at  as  t^  the  best 


45 


mode  of  securing  the  well-being, — the  present 
and  future  prosperity  of  British  Amerifta. — 
(Cheers.)  It  is  our  privilege  and  happiness 
to  be  in  such  a  position,  and  we  cannot  be 
too  grateful  for  the  blessings  thus  conferred 
upon  us.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  must  apologize 
for  having  detained  you  so  long — fcr  having 
gone  perhaps  too  much  into  tedious  details 
with  reference  to  the  questions  bearing  on 
the  Constitution  now  submitted  to  this 
House. — (Cries  of  "  no,  no"  and  "goon.") 
— In  conclusion,  I  would  again  implore  t^e 
House  not  to  let  this  opportunity  to  pass. 
It  is  an  opportunity  that  may  never  recur. 
At  the  risk  of  repeating  myself,  I  would  say, 
it  was  only  by  a  happy  coQCurrence  of  cir- 
cumstances, that  we  were  enabled  to  bring 
this  great  question  to  its  present  position. 
If  we  do  not  take  advantage  of  the  time,  if  we 
show  ourselves  unequal  to  the  occai^ion,  it 
may  never  return,  and  we  shall  hereafter 
bitterly  and  unavailingly  regret  having  failed 
to  embrace  the  happy  opportunity  now 
oflPered  of  founding  a  great  nation  undei  the 
fostering  care  of  Great  Britain,  and  our 
Sovereign  Lady,  Queen  Victoria.  (Loud 
cheers,  amidst  which  the  honorable  gentle- 
man resumed  his  seat). 

The  House,  at  eleven,  P.M.,  adjourned. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL, 


Tuesday,  7th  February,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  said  that  yester- 
day he  had  promised  to  give  to  the  House 
to-day  an  explanation  of  the  provision  con- 
tained in  the  14th  resolution  relating  to  the 
selection  of  members  for  the  Legislative 
Council  of  the  General  Legislature.  This 
resolution  read  as  follows  : — 

14.  The  first  selection  of  the  Members  of  the 
Legislative  Council  shall  be  made,  except  as  re- 
gards Prince  Edward  Island,  from  the  Legisla- 
tive Councils  of  the  various  Provinces,  so  far  as 
a  sufficient  number  be  found  qualilied  and  wil- 
ling to  serve  ;  such  Members  shall  be  appointed 
by  the  Crown  at  the  recommendation  of  the 
General  Executive  Government,  upon  the  nomi- 
nation of  the  respective  Local  Goveinments,  and 
in  such  nomination  due  regard  shall  be  had  to 
the  claims  of  the  Members  of  the  Le[,'islative 
Council  of  the  Opposition  in  each  Province,  so 
that  all  political  parties  may  as  nearly  as  possible 
be  fairly  represented. 

And  under  it  the  first  recommendation  for 
the   appointment  of  Legislative   Councillors 


from  Canada  would,  should  the  Confederation 
scheme  be  adopted,  come  from  the  existing 
Government  of  this  province.  In  making 
such  recommendations,  the  spirit  of  the  reso- 
lution would  be  carefully  observed,  and  both 
sides  in  this  House  and  as  well  life  as  elected 
members,  bo  equally  considered  and  fairly  re- 
presented in  the  new  Parliament. 

Hon.  Mr.FLINT  begged  to  inquire  whether 
the  resolutions  before  the  House  were  in  all 
respects  the  same  as  those  sent  to  the  members. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  said  they  were  not 
in  one  particular  precisely  as  first  printed, 
there  being  a  clause  in  those  before  the  House 
to  allow  New  Brunswick  to  impose  a  duty  on 
timber  and  logs,  and  Nova  Scotia  on  coal, 
which  was  not  found  in  the  first ;  as  for  the 
other  provinces,  the  imposition  of  such  duties 
was  reserved  to  the  General  Legislature. 
(Hear,  hear,  from  Mr.  CURRIE.) 

Hon.  MR..CAMPBELL  said  he  hoped  that 
honorable  members  would  rather  aid  in  further- 
ing the  scheme  than  take  pleasure  in  detect- 
ing the  supposed  causes  of  opposition.  (Hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  asked  whether  the  dif- 
ference between  the  two  sets  of  resolutions 
was  merely  a  misprint. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  could  not  say 
whether  it  was  owing  to  a  misprint  or  to  an 
error  in  the  manuscript. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  again  asked  whether 
the  members  of  the  Conference  had  not  signed 
the  instrument  containing  its  resolutions  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  could  only  say  that 
the  resolutions  now  before  the  House  truly 
and  expressly  represented  the  conclusions  the 
Conference  had  arrived  at.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Those  conclusions  had  not  been  changed. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  then  rose  and  said 
that  the  measure  now  before  the  House  was 
the  most  important  one  ever  submitted  to  a 
Colonial  Legislature,  and  he  hoped  to  be  able 
to  approach  it  \vith  entire  freedom  from  party 
spirit,  and  without  the  purpose  of  finding  out 
unnecessary  objections.  He  hoped  he  would, 
at  all  times,  be  able  to  judge  of  the  measures 
presented  with  the  fairness  and  candour  of  a 
Canadian  and  a  British  subject.  At  the  out- 
set he  would,  however,  say,  that  the  project 
now  before  the  House  had  taken  the  country 
by  surprise.  The  first  time  he  had  ever  ad- 
dressed the  House  he  was  reported  to  have 
spoken  thus  :■ — 

That  by  a  course  of  legislation  alike  moderate, 
prudent  and  upright,  it  will  yet  be  the  lot  of  some 
present  to  live  and  see  the  day  when  Canada  will 
be  the  centre  of  a  noble  British  North  American 
Confederacy  extending  from  the  Atlantic  to  the 


46 


Pacific — a  Confederacy  not  born  in  war,  or  bap- 
tised in  blood,  but  a  Confederacy  united  by 
the  bonds  of  friendship,  held  together  by  the 
strong  ties  of  friendly  commerce  and  mutual 
interests,  and  cemented  by  a  common  allegiance 
to  the  throne  of  Great  Britain. 

From  this  quotation  it  ■would  be  seen  that 
then  he  was  in  favor  of  a  Confederation  of  the 
several  British  North  American  Provinces,  but 
he  little  thought  then  that  within  two  short 
years  such  a  scheme  would  be  submitted  to 
Parliament.    He  was  still  in  lavor  of  Confeder- 
ation— (hear) — but  it  must  be  a  Confederation 
founded  on  a  just  and  equitable  basis,  upon 
principles  which  would  be  alike  advantageous 
to  all  parts  and  injurious  to  none.     If  any 
other  kind  of  Confederation  were  agreed  upon, 
it  would  contain  within  itself  the   seeds  of 
decay  and  dissolution.     The  project  had  been 
elaborately  presented  to  the  House  by  the  gal- 
lant knight  at  the  head  of  the  Government, 
and  by  his  able  colleague,  the  Hon.  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands,  and  what  reasons  had 
they  alleged  in  favor  of  it?     He  confessed  he 
had  been  quite  surprised  at  some  of  the  argu- 
ments of  the  former.     That  hon.  gentleman 
had  stated  that  if  the  scheme  were  rejected, 
whether  we  would   or    would    not,    Canada 
would  be  forced  by  violence  into  the  Ameri- 
can Union,  or  placed  upon  an  inclined  plane 
which  would  carry  us  there.     Now  when  men 
occupying  high  positions  like  the  hon.  mem- 
ber, assumed  the  responsibility  of  giving  ut- 
terance to  such  startling  opinions,  they  ought 
to   be   prepared  to  support  them  with  very 
cogent  reasons. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACH^— I  am  quite  ready 
to  give  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— If  the  case  were  as 
represented,  it  must  be  because  we  are  quite  de- 
fenceless, and  that  except  in  union  with  the 
Lower  Provinces  we  were  at  the  mercy  of  the 
United  States.  But  what  did  the  honorable 
member  mean  by  the  inclined  plane  ?  For  his 
part  he  had  not  heard  of  any  desire  on  the  part 
of  the  people  of  this  province  to  change  their 
political  institutions  and  turn  from  the  glorious 
flag  under  which  many  of  them  had  fought 
aDd  bled.  Had  anything  been  heard  from 
abroad,  to  the  eflfect  that  unless  we  accepted 
this  scheme,  England  would  cast  us  oil'  or  let 
us  slide  down  the  inclined  plane?  (Laughter) 
Yet  these  were  the  sole,  or  at  least  the  chief, 
reasons  alleged  by  that  honorable  niomber. 
Let  us  then  ask  ourselves  whether  the  schunif 
provided  a  remedy  for  the  threatened  evils. 
Would  Canada  indeed  be  so  physically  strcugth- 
c»ed  eea-ward  a^d  land-;ward  by  this  alliance, 


that  in  the  event  of  agression  on  the  part  of 
the  United  States,  we  would  be  rendered  quite 
safe?  It  was  ea.sy  to  say  that  union  gave 
strength,  but  would  this  union  really  give  us 
strength  ?  He  could  understand  that  union  with 
a  people  contiguous  would  do  so,  but  union 
with  provinces  1,500  miles  apart  at  the  ex- 
treme points,  was  a  very  different  thing,  and 
more  likely  to  be  a  source  of  weakness.  In 
his  mind  it  was  like  tying  a  small  twine  at 
the  end  of  a  large  rope  and  saying  it  strength- 
ened the  whole  line.  When  the  honorable 
member  said  that  Canada  would  be  supported 
by  all  the  military  power  of  the  Lower  Prov- 
inces, we  should  not  run  away  with  the  idea 
that  this  meant  anything.  What  were  the 
facts  ?  Upon  looking  at  the  census  of  those 
provinces  he  found  that  the  male  population 
between  the  ages  of  21  and  50 — the  extreme 
limits  at  which  men  bore  arms — was  128,457, 
of  which  number  63,289  were  chiefly  emplo3ed 
on  the  water,  that  is,  in  the  coasting  trade  and 
the  fisheries,  leaving  65,000  to  assist  iu  the  de- 
fence of  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  sup- 
pose a  draft  of  one-third  of  these  was  made 
for  military  exigencies — and  one-third  would 
be  a  large  proportion — wc  would  have  less 
than  22,000  men  available  for  the  service. 
Why,  that  would  not  be  enough  to  defend 
their  own  frontier  from  aggression.  Without 
referring  to  the  causes  which  had  led  to  the 
formation  of  the  present  Government,  or  to 
the  extraordinary  conduct  of  some  of  the  pub- 
lic men  composing  it,  he  must  nevertheless 
allude  to  the  express  objects  they  professed  to 
have  in  view  in  coming  together.  And  the 
principal  object  was  ^a  scheme  of  federation, 
but  not  the  scheme  now  offered  to  the  House. 
If  he  understood  the  matter  at  all,  the  Gov- 
ernment was  organized  on  the  basis  of  a  Con- 
federation of  Upper  iind  Lower  Cimada  first, 
in  which  Confederation  the  Lower  Provinces 
might  afterwards  be  adniitted  if  they  wished  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Not  so. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUKlllE — He  was  not  surprised 
at  the  dissent  of  the  Honorable  Commissioner 
uf  Crown  Lands,  lor  the  leaders  iu  both 
Houses  liad  placed  the  larger  object,  that  is 
the  organization  of  u  general  Confederation, 
as  the  primary  one.  But  the  basis  of  the 
organization  had  been, reduced  to  writing,  and 
ho  held  iu  his  hand  the  paper  which  recapitu- 
lat^'d  the  conditions.  Thoy  were  as  follows ; — 
"  Tlie  Government  are  prepared  to  pledge 
themselves  to  bring  in  a  measure,  next  sessiou, 
for  the  purpose  of  removing  existing  ditricultieu 
by  introducing  the  Federal  priiioiple  into 
Canada,  coupled  with  such  provision  a«|  wiU 


47 


permit  the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North- 
west Territory  to  be  incorporated  into  the  same 
system  of  Government," 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  resolutions 
on  the  table  fulfilled  that  promise. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Well,  the  honorable 
member's  colleague,  the  Provincial  Secretary, 
did  not  mention  the  Lower  Provinces  other- 
wise than  incidentally  at  the  great  meeting  in 
South  Oxford,  and  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
not  at  all.    Khis  position  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie's) 
was  correct,  that  the  Confederation  of  Canada 
alone  was  the  basis  of  the  coalition,  then  they 
had  not  carried  out  their  pledge,  and  he  pro- 
nounced the  scheme  now  propounded  as  the 
authorized  production  of  a  number  of  sell- 
appointed  delegates,  and  not  the  measure  the 
country  expe<?ted.     Then  he  had  been  sur- 
prised to  find  that  in  the  Conference  Canada 
had  so  small  a  representation.     He  very  wil- 
lingly admitted  that  we  had  very  able  men 
there,  but  they  were  few  compared  with  the 
whole  number  of  the  Conference,  and  did  not 
fairly  represent  the  population  and  wealth  of 
the   country.     The  Honorable  Commissioner 
of  Crown  Lands  had  said,  to  be  sure,  that  it  did 
not  make  much  difference  as  the  votes  were 
not  taken  by  numbers  but  by  the  provinces ; 
in  other  words,  that  Prince  Edward  Island, 
with  its  population  of  80,000   souls,  had  as 
inuch  to  say  as  Canada  with  its  millions. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  two   sec- 
tions of  Canada  voted  separately. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— That  was  not  much 
better,  for  it  made   Prince   Edward  Island 
equal  to  Upper  Canada,  with  nearly  1,500,000 
of  population.     But  all  this  apart,  he  main- 
tained the  country  was  not  prepared  to  pass 
judgment  upon  this  momentous  question.     It 
was  the  greatest  matter  that  had  ever  been 
presented  for  its  consideration,  and  it  should 
be  the  aim  of  all  to  have  it  perfectly  under- 
stood and  approved  of  before  it  was  adopted. 
We  should  seek  to  frame  a  Constitution  which 
would  last  for  ages.     If  any  portion  of  the 
country  were  seriously  opposed  to  the  project, 
and  it  were  carried  through  in  spite  of  them, 
a  wrong  would  be  inflicted  which  would  per- 
petuate itself  in  all  coming  time.     If  passed 
against  the  sense  of  a  majority  of  Upper  or 
Lower  Canada,  the  act  might  lead  to  an  agi- 
tation such  as  had  never  been  witnessed,  and 
which  might  be  fraught  with  the  most  disas- 
trous consequences.     To  prove  that  the  coun- 
try was  not  prepared  for  this  sudden  change, 
he  would  ask  how  many  public  meetings  had 
been  held  in  Upper  Canada  for  the  purpose  of 
discussing  it?    He  had  heard  of  but  one,  and 


that  not  very  influential,  where  both  sides  of 
the  question  were  discussed.     The  people  had 
in  fact  been  waiting  for  the  programme,  and 
to  this  moment  it  had  not  been  supplied — cer- 
tainly not  in  all  its  details.     In  a  matter  of 
this  momentous  importance,  upon  which  the 
well-being  of  millions  in  the  future  might  so 
much  depend,  he  sincerely  trusted  the  country 
would  not  be  hurried,  but  that  full  time  for 
discussion  would  be  given  to  enable  it  to  arrive 
at  a  safe  verdict.     (Hear.)     It  was  said  that 
all  the  Governments  interested  were  in  favor 
of  the  project,  and  it  was  well  known  that 
there  was  to  be  a  dissolution  of  Parliament 
in  one  of  the  provinces ;  if  so,  where  was  the 
necessity  for  haste  in  Canada,  unless  indeed 
it  was  for  the  purpose  of  unduly  influencing 
the    other    provinces  ?       When    the    union 
between   Upper   and     Lower     Canada     was 
effected,  there  had  been  no   such   unpatience 
of    delay.      The  Imperial   Government  had 
brought  in  a  bill,  copies  of  which   were  sent 
out,  and  submitted  to  the  Parliament  of  Upper 
Canada — Lower  Canada  then  had  no  Parlia- 
ment to  consult,  and  in  its  case  there  was  leas 
need  of  delay   than   now — the  bill   was  sent 
home  again  approved,  though  meetings  were 
held  in  Lower  Canada  strongly  opposed  to  the 
measure,  and  to  this  day  it  is  said  it  was 
forced   upon   an   unwilling   people.      (Hear, 
hear,  from  some  of  the   French  members.) 
If  time  was  then  allowed,   why   should   not 
time  be  allowed  now,  when  a  much  more  im- 
portant union  was  in  question  ?    (Hear,  hear.) 
Had  the  views  of  such  eminent  men  as  Lord 
Eilenborough  and  Lord  Durham  been   duly 
appreciated   in  1839,  this  Parliament  would 
not  now  be  met  for  the  purpose  of  dissolving 
a  union  which  had  been  unprofitable  to  one 
section,    and    unsatisfactory    to    the    other. 
(Hear,  hear,  derisively.)     He  would  now  take 
tlie  liberty  to  quote  the  views  of  Lord  Dur- 
ham, to  which  he   had  just   alluded.     They 
were  as  follows : 

I  am  averse  to  every  plan  that  has  been  pro- 
posed for  giving  an  equal  number  of  members  to 
the  two  Provinces,  ia  order  to  obtain  the  tempor- 
ary end  of  out-numbering  the  French,  because  I 
think  the  same  object  will  be  obtained  without  any 
violation  of  the  principles  of  representation,  and 
without  any  such  appearance  of  injustice  in  the 
scheme,  as  would  set  public  opinion  both  in  Eng- 
land and  America  strongly  against  itj  and 
because,  when  emigration  shall  have  increased 
the  English  population  in  the  Upper  Province,  the 
adoption  ot  such  a  principle  would  operate  to 
defeat  this  very  purpose  it  is  intended  to  serve. 
It  appears  to  me  that  any  such  elective  arrange- 
ment founded  on  the  present  Provincial  Divisiona 


48 


would  tend  to  defeat  the  purpose  of  Uaion,  and 
pei-petrate  the  idea  of  diauoion. 

He  cited  these  pregnant  words  to  indicate 
the  danger  of  resorting  to  temporary  expe- 
dients for  the  purpose  of  overcoming  grave 
diflficulties.  If  hou.  members  desired  to  es- 
tablish a  union  under  which  the  provinces 
would  grow  iu  wealth,  power  and  importance, 
they  must  endeavor  to  make  it  as  nearly  infal- 
lible as  fallible  men  could.  He  had  already 
remarked  that  there  had  been  but  little  dis- 
cussion in  Upper  Canada  on  this  subject,  and 
he  felt  it  ill  became  him,  representing,  as  he 
did,  a  large  constituency,  to  vote  approbation 
before  the  people  understood  what  the  vote 
involved.  In  the  Lower  Provinces  the  people 
and  the  press  seemed  alive  to  the  subject,  for 
the  latter  teemed  with  ai-ticles  for  and  against, 
all  tending  to  give  information  which  our 
population  had  not  received,  But  speaking 
of  the  Lower  Provinces,  he  was  really  afraid 
that  some  public  men  down  there  were  dis- 
posed to  exaggerate  the  advantages  of  a  union 
with  Canada,  just  as  some  of  ours  seemed  prone 
to  magnify  the  riches  of  the  Lower  Provinces. 
If  we  were  going  into  a  partnership,  which  ho 
hoped  would  last  if  entered  into — (hear,  hear,) 
— we  should  not  attempt  to  deceive  each  other, 
for  if  the  people  found  they  had  been  deceived, 
the  compact  would  be  short-lived.  To  give 
honorable  members  some  idea  of  the  manner 
in  which  the  subject  was  presented  by  leading 
men  in  the  provinces,  he  would  read  thein  an 
extract  from  the  speech  of  a  Mr.  Lynch,  at  a 
large  meeting  in  Halifax,  as  reproduced  by 
one  of  the  organs  of  the  Government  there. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— What  organ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— They  had  so  many 
organs  they  did  not  seem  to  know  them  all. 
(Laughter.)  He  would  now  read  from  the 
speech  in  question: — 

But  wo  are  told  by  others  that  we  had  better 
have  uolhing  to  do  with  Canada,  because  she  is 
bankrupt.  Cunada  b  uikrupt  1  I  wish  we  were 
all  Buch  bankrupts.  She  is  overllowing  with 
wealth.  This  is  now  rapidly  doveluping  itself, 
and  must  eveatually  place  her  among  the  hrat 
nations  of  the  earth.  I  have  travelled  over  and 
examined  that  great  C'..untry,  and  it  would  take 
more  than  all  the  time  allotted  to  me  to  tell  you 
of  her  wealtli  and  resources.  Her  rivers  are 
among  the  lar;je)5t  in  tbe  world,  and  her  lakes 
are  mighty  inland  oceans.  L  never  had  any  idea 
of  their  extent  until  i  stood  on  the  shore  ot  Lake 
Erie,  saw  belore  me  a  largo  square  rigged  fchip, 
and  wan  told  that  such  was  the  class  of  voasds 
that  navigattMJ  those  w.-xters.  Why,  sir,  7,000,000 
tons  of  shipping  trade  upon  those  mighty  lakes. 
Again,  Iook  ;>t  the  growth  of  the  population. 
Sixty  years  u;,ro  it  wan  00,000,  now  it  ia  3,000,000. 


Upper  Canada  doubled  her  population  in  ten 
years,  and  Toronto,  in  the  beginning  of  this 
century  the  abode  of  the  red  man  of  the  forest,  is 
now  one  of  the  finest  cities  of  British  America, 
with  a  population  of  40,000.  The  soil  is  of  the 
richest  description,  indeed  it  is  only  too  much  so. 
In  some  places  rich  alluvial  deposit  is  found  to 
the  depth  of  50  feet,  and  in  many  instances  lands 
have  yielded  their  crops  for  years  without  the  aid 
of  a  spadeful  of  manure.  Canada  has  not  only 
the  greatest  yield  but  the  best  wheat  in  America. 
It  is  a  well-known  fact  that  the  people  of  the 
United  States  in  exporting  their  best  flour  mix  it 
to  a  large  extent  with  Canadian  wheat,  and  in 
Order  to  give  you  an  idea  of  the  increased  growth 
of  :t  I  would  inform  you  that  while  in  ten  years 
the  wheat  crop  increased  in  the  States  50  per 
cent,  (an  immense  increase),  it  in  the  same  time 
in  Canada  increased  400  per  cent.  The  average 
crop  ii  equal  to  that  of  the  best  wheat  growing 
countries  in  Europe,  while  some  places  have 
yielded  the  almost  incredible  quantity  of  100 
bushels  to  the  acre.  The  yield  of  last  year  was 
27,000. 

He  only  wished  that  this  honorable  gentle- 
man alone  had  been  mistaken,  but  even  the 
Hon. Mr.  Tilley,  one  of  the  most  distinguished 
statesmen  of  New  Brunswick,  had  made  the 
statement  that  our  tariff  was  in  fact  only  an 
eleven  per  cent,  tariff.  But  all  the  errors  were 
not  on  that  side,  for  they  need  but  turn  to  .•» 
celebrated  speech  of  one  of  our  own  leading 
men — a  speech  regarded  almost  as  an  important 
state  paper — and  there  it  was  stated  that  the 
United  Provinces  would  become  the  third 
maritime  power  in  the  world.  (Hear,  Hear.) 
England,  it  said,  was  first,  then  the  United 
States,  and  the  speaker  doubted  if  France 
could  take  the  third  rank  before  us.  Our 
seiv-going  tonnage  would  be  five  millions,  and 
our  lake  tonnage  seven  millions.  These  were 
vast  figures,  and  it  almost  bewildered  the  mind 
to  conceive  their  magnificent  proportions. 
(Laughter.)  Now  supposing  all  these  vessels 
were  500  tons  each,  it  would  require  14,000 
to  make  up  the  sum,  but  unfortunately  the 
census  showed  that  we  had  but  808  sailors  to 
navigate  them — rather  a  small  number  it  must 
bo  admitted  for  1-4,000  ships.  (Great  laugh- 
ter.) The  way  the  mistake — to  use  the  mildest 
expression — was  made,  was  simple  enough. 
The  vessels  were  entered  at  the  Custom 
Houses  every  time  they  came  in  and  left  port, 
and  us  some  of  them  came  into  port  200  times 
in  the  year,  as  at  Toronto  for  instance,  their 
tonuago  was  counted  200  times.  It  was  easy 
iu  this  way  to  run  up  our  inland  marine  to 
seven  millions  of  tons.  But  then  if  the  pro- 
ducts of  Canada  were  us  groat  its  Mr.  Lynch 
represented,  why  of  course  w«  would  requird 


49 


all  those  ships  to  carry  away  all  that  wheat. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  He  would  be 
glad  if  he  could  tell  as  fine  a  story,  but  he 
could  not  do  that  and  at  the  same  time  tell 
the  truth.  Then  the  Lower  Provinces  were 
told  that  our  tariff  averaged  eleven  per  cent., 
but  was  it  so  ?  [The  honorable  member  was 
here  quoting  from  a  speech  of  Hon.  Mr. 
TiLLEY,  to  which  he  had  before  alluded.] 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Read  on. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE,  reading  on,  imme- 
diately came  to  a  paragraph  explaining  the  11 
per  cent,  to  mean  the  average  of  duties  on  the 
value  of  all  imported  goods,  a  large  proportion 
of  which  were  duty  free. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — The  statement  was  cor- 
rect. (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.CURRIE  then  proceeded  to  show 
the  truth  in  regard  to  the  duties  on  staples 
and  articles  in  domestic  use  in  Canada.  He 
said  if  honorable  gentlemen  would  turn  to  the 
Trade  and  Navigation  returns  for  1864,  they 
would  find  that  in  the  first  half  of  that  year 
we  imported  and  paid  the  following  duties  on 
eight  kinds  of  commodities  : 

Value.  Duty. 

Cottons $8,277,985  $644,331 

Woolens 2,537,669  499,084 

Tea,  lbs.,  3,048,567 1,059,674  275,126 

Iron  and  hardware 776,225  151.422 

Linen 421,543  84,1.36 

Hats  and  Caps 281,197  65,646 

Sugar 779,907  376,189 

Sugar,  refiued 9,989  6,260 

Coffee,  green 89,016  20,449 

$2,112,593 

Thus  hon.  gentlemen  would  see  we  pay 
more  than  fifty  per  cent,  on  our  sugar,  nearly 
twenty-three  per  cent,  on  coffee,  while  upon  tea 
we  pay  about  twenty-six  per  cent.  He  was 
afraid  that  if  the  present  condition  of  Canada 
was  calmly  considered  wo  would  be  found 
going  into  the  union  in  a  state  far  different 
from  the  glo'ndng  representations  of  Hon.  Mr. 
Lynch.  Let  hon.  members  look  at  the  trade 
of  Canada  for  half  of  the  year  1864,  and  they 
would  find  that  the  balance  against  us  was 
§9,999,000.  Then  there  was  the  interest 
upon  the  public  debt ;  interest  upon  loans  to 
private  individuals;  bank  dividends  payable 
abroad,  for  much  of  the  stock  of  our  banks 
was  held  out  of  the  province  ;  the  interest  to 
loan  companies  and  others ;  all  to  be  added  to 
the  debit  balance,  and  the  picture  of  wealth 
conjured  up  would  present  a  very  different  as- 
pect. Indeed,  he  wondered  how,  with  all  these 
burdens,  the  country  had  Isorne  up  so  well. — 

8 


In  the  next  place,  he  objected  to  the  manner  iti 
which  the  scheme  had  been  brought  down. 
^Vhy,  if  the  Government  desired  the  House  to 
vote  favorably,  did  they  not  act  and  speak 
understandingly  ?  ^Tiy  did  they  not  at  once 
bring  in  the  schemes  for  the  local  governments 
and  tho  estimated  cost  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  ?  He  (Hon.  Mr.  Currib)  did  not  ob- 
ject to  the  principle  of  Confederation.  (Hear, 
hear.)  No,  and  he  believed  there  would  be 
the  most  perfect  unanimity  on  the  subject,  as 
there  was  among  the  delegates  as  to  the  prin- 
ciple of  Confederation,  but  he  asked  to  hare, 
as  part  of  tho  scheme,  the  cost  of  the  railway, 
which  seemed  to  be  part  and  parcel  of  it.  We 
knew  little  of  this  project,  where  it  was  to 
commence  and  where  to  end,  or  how  many  ends 
it  was  to  have.  We  heard  there  was  to  be  one 
branch  from  Truro  to  Pietou ;  and  then  it  was 
said  again  that  the  road  must  pass  through  the 
valley  of  the  St.  John,  and  end  in  that  city. 
Were  we  to  accept  the  project  without  inform- 
ation ?  Were  we  to  have  a  road  to  Halifax  ? 
to  purchase  thp  Grand  Trunk  to  Riviere  du 
Loup  and  the  link  from  Truro  to  Halifax,  all 
of  them  to  enter  and  form  part  of  the  national 
railway?  Notwithstanding  the  admitted  talent 
of  the  delegates,  he  contended  that  a  manifest 
injustice  had  been  done  to  Canada,  and  espe- 
cially to  Upper  Canada,  in  the  distribution  of 
the  subsidies  to  the  local  governments.  Hon. 
gentlemen  must  bear  in  mind  that  the  subsidies 
change  not  with  population,  but  remain  fixed. 
They  were  as  follows : — 


Upper  Canada 

Lower  Canada 

Nova  Scotia     

New  Brunswick $201,000 

63,000 


$1,116,873  00 
889,24.8  00 
264,000  00 


Princo  Edward  Island. .      64,035 


89,043 


Newfoundland 98,110 

270,890 


264.000  00 


163,728  00 


369,000  00 


$3,C56,849  00 

If  a  person  was  pi-oposing  to  enter  into  a 
pai-tnerahip  he  would  naturally  inquire  into  the 
assets  of  the  other  members  of  the  intended 
firm.  We  knew  what  our  assets  were.  We 
had  the  finest  eanaU  la  tho  world,  which  had 
cost  many  millions. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— And  they  pay. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Place  tolls  on  the 
St.  Lawrence  Canals  and  you  will  see  what 
they  pay .  There  was  one  •anal  that  did  pay, 
the  Welland.   In  1S61  this  work  alone  earned 


50 


a  net  revenue  of  8184,289  50,  over  and  above 
the  costs  of  repair  and  manajrcraent ;  and  if 
you  add  to  that  amount  the  tolls  unwisely  re- 
funded, $56,474  63,  you  have  an  amount 
equal  to  five  per  cent,  on  the  total  expendi- 
ture on  the  Well  and  Canal,  as  shewn  in  the 
Report  of  the  Commissioner  of  Public  Works, 
up  to  the  1st  January,  1862,  and  a  margin 
of  87,436  to  the  credit  of  this  work.  Then 
we  had  the  St.  Lawrance  Canals,  and  if  they 
did  not  pay  it  was  because  of  the  extravagance 
of  the  management  and  the  system  of  toll  on 
those  works.  (Hear.)  It  was  reported  that 
some  people  believed  if  we  could  only  get 
Confederation  we  would  have  enough  to  pay 
for  both  the  general  and  local  governments, 
and  so  much  more  to  spare  that  we  would  not 
know  what  to  do  with  our  money.  What 
would  be  the  revenue  of  the  Confederation  ? 
Taking  the  year  1S63  as  the  basis,  we  find 
the  revenues  of  the  proposed  Confederation  for 
that  year,  from  customs  and  excise,  to  be  as 
follows  : 

Canada $5,999,320  98 

Newfoundland $496,899 

Prince    Edward    Island..  153,520 

Nova  Scotia 861,989 

New  Brunswick 768,353 

2,280,752  00 

$8,280,072  98 

We  will  now  consider  the  burdens   to  be 
assumed  by  the  Confederation.      Interest  on 
the  debt  of  Canada,  83,812,  514  01  ;  interest 
on  the  debts  of  New   Brunswick  and   Nova 
Scotia,   of   815,000,000,   say  8750,000;  in- 
terest on    the    debt    of    Newfoundland,    of 
$946,000,  and  the   debt  of  Prince   Edward 
Island,  of  8240,673—859,333.     Add  to  this 
the  interest  on  the  cost  of  constructing  the 
Intercolonial  Railway,  not  less  than  81,000,000 
yearly,  supposing  it  were  to  cost  us  but  820,- 
000,000,  and  the  amount  to  be  spent  yearly 
for    defensive    purposes,   81,000,000.      And 
assuming  that  civil  government   and  the  cost 
of  legislation  should  be  no  more  for  the  Con- 
federation than  for  Canada,  which  is  certainly 
a  reasonable  view,  we  have  lor  civil   govern- 
ment, 8430,572  47  ;    for  legislation,    $627,- 
377  92 ;     judges'     salaries.   Lower   Canada, 
$115,755  55;  judges'  salaries,  UpptT  Canada, 
$157,690  33  ;    emigration    and    quarantine, 
$57,406  32  ;  ocean  and  river  service,  $511,- 
356  40  ;  lighthouses  and  coa.sts,  $102,724  75  ; 
fisheries,  $22,758  41  ;  coat  of  collecting  revenue 
and   excise   in    Canada,    $101,56141;   local 
subsidies   to   provinces,    $3,056,819.       Thus 
ihewing  a  balance  agaiust  revenue  of  $3,825,- 


781  89 ;  and  if  the  canals  are  to  be  enlarged, 
as  promised,  an  additional  debt  must  be  created 
of  $12,000,000  for  such  purpose, — another 
annual  charge  of  8600,000, — or  a  total  balance 
against  revenue  of  84,425,781  89.  These 
gentlemen  from  the  east  were  going  to  give  us 
the  Intercolonial  Railway  and  enlarge  our 
canals,  but  if  to  enlarge  the  canals,  why  were 
not  the  canals  put  in  the  Constitution  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— They  did  not  want 
to  throw  cold  water  upon  it.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Why  not  give  a 
guarantee  for  their  enlargement  ?  He  found 
that  the  desirable  improvement  would  entail 
an  expense  of  §12,000,000.  As  to  the  local 
subsidy,  he  regarded  it  as  a  farce,  or  as  honey 
spread  out  to  catch  flies.  As  to  the  argument 
that  the  rejection  of  the  scheme  would  injure 
our  credit,  he  would  ask  whether  the  bond- 
holders would  not  much  prefer  our  present 
financial  condition  to  one  of  fifteen  millions 
of  increased  indebtedness,  with  nothing  of 
value  to  show  for  it.  If  the  people  of  Eng- 
land knew  that  Confederation  and  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway  meant  an  increase  of  fifty 
por  cent,  on  our  tarifi",  they  would  not  be  so 
anxious  for  it.  As  to  the  representation  in 
the  Confederated  Legislative  Council,  it  was 
proposed  to  give  Upper  Canada  and  Lower 
Canada  twenty-four  members  each^  and  to  the 
Lower  Provinces  twenty-eight.  That  is,  the 
780,000  souls  in  the  Lower  Provinces  would 
have  four  mcmber.s  more  than  Upper  Canada 
with  its  million  and  a  half.  This  proved  that 
though  Canada  had  talented  men  in  the  Con- 
ference, they  cither  forgot  our  interests  or 
sat  there  powerless.  When  the  Legislative 
Council  of  Canada  was  made  elective,  lus 
honorable  friend  near  him  (Hon.  Mr.  Chris- 
tie) had  stood  up  for  the  right  of  Upper 
Canada,  as  the  Delegates  should  have  done 
in  the  Conference.  On  the  second  reading  of 
the  bill  to  change  the  constitution  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council,  on  the  14th  March,  1856, — 

Mr.  Brown  moved,  secondod  by  Mr.  Foi.ky, 
That  it  be  an  instruction  to  the  Coinniiltpo  to 
amend  the  bill,  hy  providing  that  the  ujouibers  of 
the  Legislative  Couaeii  shall  bo  elorted  for  fnur 
jeara,  one-half  retiring  every  seconii  year. 

Mr.  Ciori.u  moved,  sueoniieil  by  Air.  WiuoiiT, 
That  it  be  an  instruction  to  the  Coininiltt  e  to 
amend  tlic  bill  by  providing  that  the  constituen- 
cies shall  bo  arranged  accoi-ding  to  population, 
without  rojartl  to  the  division  line  between  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada. 

Tliiaamondmont  wassup|v>rt(Hl  l»y  the  Hon- 
Messrs.  Aikin.>^,  Buown,  C.\mkr(»n,  Chris- 
tie, Foley,  FuKr,M.\N,  Wilson,  and  many 
loading  refonners  in  lIppiT  ('anada. 


51 


And  on  the  third  reading  of  the  bill  on  the 
27th  March,— 

Mr.  Hartman  moved,  seconded  by  Mr.  Chris- 
tie, That  the  bill  be  recommitted  to  a  Com- 
mittee of  the  whole  House,  with  a  view  to  ar- 
range the  electoral  divisions  so  as  to  embrace 
within  each,  as  nearly  as  practicable,  an  equal 
population,  and  without  regard  to  a  division  line 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 

This  amendment,  although  supported  by 
Messrs.  Brown,  Christie,  and  twenty  other 
Upper  Canada  members,  was  not  carried. 

If  representation  by  population  were  riglit 
in  185(),  was  it  not  equally  right  in  1865  ? 
But  it  might  be  said  that  the  union  was  to 
be  a  federal  one,  whereas  it  was  no  such  thing. 
It  was  neither  federal  nor  legislative,  but  a 
mongrel  between  botli.  If  the  representation 
had  been  properly  arranged,  there  would  have 
been  no  necessity  for  honorable  members 
vacating  their  seats.  In  that  case.  Upper 
Canada  would  have  had  30,  Lower  Canada 
24,  and  the  Lower  Provinces  18.  Yesterday 
the  Honorable  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands 
had  given  reasons  for  abolishing  the  elective 
principle  as  applied  to  this  House ;  but  not 
over  a  year  ago  he  had  lauded  the  system,  and 
he  (Hon.  Mr.  Cdrrie)  had  not  heard  the  life 
members  say  a  word  in  opposition.  The 
system  had  got  a  fair  trial  of  eight  years,  and 
had  proved  satisfactory,  and  would  a  few  self- 
constituted  delegates,  with  a  dash  of  the  pen, 
destroy  that  which  had  received  the  sanction 
of  the  country?  He  was  never  sent  to  this 
House  to  vote  away  its  constitution — (hear, 
hear) — and  before  endorsing  any  such  propo- 
sition he  would  wish  to  go  to  his  constituents, 
and  if  they  said  yes,  he  would  not  oppose — 
(hear,  hear) — but  without  that  permission,  he 
was  not  going  to  give  a  vote  which  might 
have  the  effect  of  giving  him  his  seat  fcr  life. 
(Hear,  hear.)  He  had  heard  of  Lower 
Canada  domination,  but  if  this  was  the  first 
taste  of  eastern  domination,  he  wished  no 
more  of  it.     (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  was  not  a 
peculiarity  of  Canada,  but  the  judgment  of 
the  whole  Conference.     (Hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — He  then  presumed 
it  was  not  the  proposition  of  the  honorable 
member  that  the  seat  the  people  had  given 
him  should  be  given  to  the  Crown ;  but  it 
seemed  he  had  passed  under  the  domination 
of  the  Lower  Provinces.  (Laughter.)  In 
1849,  the  Legislature  had  made  provision  for 
the  support  of  common  schools  in  Canada, 
and  had  set  aside  one  million  acres  of  the  best 
lands  for  that  noble  purpose.     The  lands,  all 


situate  in  Upper  Canada,  had  been  sold,  and 
a  fund  of  a  million  and  a  quarter  accumu- 
lated, but  with  another  stroke  of  the  pen  this, 
too,  was  to  be  scored  out.  In  1862,  the 
Government  of  the  day  had  brought  down  a 
bill  to  amend  the  Separate  School  Act  of 
Upper  Canada,  and  without  expressing  an 
opinion  as  to  its  merits,  he  might  say  it  had 
produced  a  very  strong  feeling  of  indignation, 
A  mass  meeting  was  held  in  Toronto  to  con- 
demn the  bill,  and  the  people  were  so  exas- 
perated that  they  had  called  upon  certain 
members  of  the  Government  to  resign.  Other 
meetings  were  held,  viz.  : — 

Meeting  at  Harrington,  North  Oxford,  25th 
March,  1863: 

Resolved, — That  the  Hon.  W.  Macdougall 
has  betrayed  the  interests  of  his  constituents  for 
^he  sake  of  ofiBce. 

Meeting  at  East  Nissouri,  6th  April,  1863 

Resolved, — That  this  raeetinf]:,  while  viewing 
the  manner  in  which  the  Hon.  Wm.  Macdougall 
has  betrayed  the  interests  of  his  constituents  in 
supporting  Mr.  Scott's  Separate  School  Bill,  be- 
lives  it  to  be  his  duty  to  resign  his  seat  in  the 
Provincial  Parliament  as  member  for  the  North 
Riding  of  Oxford. 

He  had  read  these  resolutions  to  show  the 
feeling  which  then  prevailed,  and  he  might 
have  quoted  articles  to  prove  that  the  measure 
was  regarded  as  a  most  iniquitous  one.  He 
would  give  one  or  two  from  the  Globe  : — 

We  can  hardly  believe  that  a  government 
based  on  the  double  majority,  will  permit  an  al- 
teration in  our  common  gchool  system  in  defiance 
of  the  vote  of  an  Upper  Canadian  majority. 

March  20th. — The  prospects  of  Mr.  Scott's  bill 
in  the  Upper  House  are  not  very  bright.  When  it 
was  brought  up  from  the  Assembly,  nobody  rose  to 
move  the  first  reading,  and  Sir  Etienne  Tache, 
who,  it  will  be  remtmbered,  introduced  this  last 
Upper  Canada  Separate  School  Bill,  which  passed 
into  law,  was  about  to  assume  this  responsibility, 
when  Mr.  McCrea,  the  aewly  elected  Councillor 
for  the  Western  Division,  came  to  the  rescue. 

The  Speaker  then  very  improperly  suggested 
Mr.  AiKiNS  as  the  seconder,  an  ofiBce  which  the 
member  for  the  Home  Division  promptly  declined. 
No  one  else  appearing,  Mr.  Letillier,  a  French 
Canadian,  seconded  the  motion.  This  is  French 
domination  with  a  vengeance.  We  are  not  aa- 
toaished  to  find  that  there  is  a  disposition  to  give 
the  bill  strong  opposition,  regardless  of  the  con- 
sequences to  the  government. 

April  11.— The  bill  passed  the  second  reading 
in  the  Legislative  Council,  11  to  13  from  Upper 
Canada. 

In  spite  of  every  temptation.  Upper  Canada 
stands  true  to  her  school  system.  The  bill  may 
pass  as  other  infamies  have  passed  our  Legisla- 


52 


ture  before,  but  it  will  not  be  by  Upper  Canada 
votes.  If  our  school  system  is  destroyed,  Lower 
Canada  must  bear  the  shame  of  it. 

April  21st. — Although  the  bill  has  passed 
both  Houses,  and  no  number  of  meetingg  can 
stay  its  progress,  it  is  well  for  the  people  of  Up- 
per Canada  to  pronounc*  upon  its  merits.  They 
are  deeply  hurt  and  mortified  by  this  treatment 
they  have  received  from  Lower  Canadians  and 
traitors  among  their  own  representatives.  A  sense 
of  pei-sonal  wrong  and  injury  ciista  which  we 
have  never  witnessed  in  so  great  a  degree  before. 
The  iron  of  Lower  Cana^Ja  domination  seems  to 
have  touched  the  soul  of  the  people  and  the  wound 
rankles.  The  word  contempt  does  not  express 
the  feeling  which  is  manifested.  There  is  a  spice 
of  bitterness  about  it  which  takes  it  out  of  that 
category. 

But,  notwithstanding  these  evidences  of  dis- 
satisfaction, the  act  became  law,  and  it  re- 
mained for  the  present  Government,  by  tliis 
■scheme,  to  perpetuate  the  law.  He  was  sur- 
prised that  the  Government,  framed  as  it  was, 
should  become  parties  to  such  a  scheme.  They 
had  not  yet  done  with  the  school  question. 
They  proposed  to  protect  the  Protestant 
minority  of  Lower  Canada,  and  a  petition  Avas 
on  the  table  exhibiting  what  was  desired.  This 
was  proof  enough  that  the  people  were  not 
.satisfied  ;  and  whether  or  not  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  were  adopted,  the  Government 
should  bring  in  a  measure  to  do  the  petition- 
ers justice.  Then  from  Upper  Canada  the 
Koman  Catholics  asked  to  be  placed  in  a  posi- 
tion precisely  similar  to  that  which  the  Pro- 
testants of  Lower  Canada  were  seeking,  and 
if  each  of  these  minorities  were  suffering  in- 
justice, why  should  not  their  complaints  be 
redressed  before  a  Confederation  took  place  ? 
Let  these  measures  prelude  Confederation, 
and  let  not  Parliament  be  asked  to  proceed 
blindfold.  Ho  was  satisfied  that  if  the  Liter- 
colonial  llailway  project  were  taken  out  of  the 
scheme,  we  would  not  hear  much  about  it 
afterwards.  Some  leading  men  in  Halifixx 
had  said,  "  the  Railway  first,  and  Confedera- 
ion  next." 

Ho.v.  Mr.  SANBOJIN— Hon.  Mr.  Tilley 
had  said  that. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUHRIE— Then  it  would  be 
better  to  try  the  Confederation  without  the 
railway.  It  would,  after  all,  be  much  easier  for 
the  members  from  the  Lower  Provinces  to 
come  to  Ottawa  than  it  used  to  bo  fur  the 
members  from  Sandwich  to  go  to  Montreal  at 
the  time  of  the  union.  The  Grand  Trunk 
llailway  had  cost  tlic  province  a  vaat  sum,  but 
then  it  had  been  of  vast  service  to  the  country. 
But  where  i.s  the  cojnpany  that  Wi'juld  keep  the 
Itttoroolonial  J^  ail  way  running  for  its  eiu'nings, 


the  road  and  the  rolling  stock  being  made  over 
to  them  as  a  gift  ?  Suppose  a  merchant  from 
Montreal  wants  to  go  to  England,  which  road 
will  he  prefer?  Why,  he  would  go  by  way  of 
Portland.  Would  any  produce  be  sent  over 
such  a  road  ?  How  much  wheat  was  there 
sent  over  the  Grand  Trunk,  even  in  winter  ? 

Hox.  Mr.  FERRIER— a  great  deal. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— How  much  from 
Montreal  ?  And  why  did  we  hear  complaint.-* 
from  Huron  and  Bruce  ? 

SEVERAL  VOICES— They  have  no  rail- 
way there.     (Laughter.) 

Hox.  Mr.  CURRIE— Was  there  not  the 
Buffalo  and  Lake  Huron  Railway  passing 
through  Huron  ?  It  was  our  duty  to  hesitate 
and  not  to  press  on  at  railway  speed,  but  to 
act  like  prudent  men.  We  were  sent  here  to 
place  a  check  upon  hasty  legislation.  But  was 
there  ever  such  hasty  legislation  as  this  ?  Yet 
as  the  Government  were  strong  in  Parliament, 
they  might  attempt  to  press  the  measure  with- 
out the  consent  of  the  people.  If  they  do,  how- 
ever, pursue  such  a  cour.se,  they  will  perhaps 
receive  a  check  in  Nova  Scotia  or  New  Bruns- 
wick, for  in  these  provinces  they  had  no  inten- 
tion to  pass  the  measure  without  a  free  and 
full  discussion. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Why,  if  it  was  good  for 
them  as  the  hon.  member  said,  they  might  be 
glad  to  do  it. 

Hox.  :Mr.  McCREA— If  it  was  so  unfa- 
vorable for  Canada  it  must  be  in  the  same 
degree  favorable  to  the  Lower  Provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Oh,  that  does  not 
by  any  means  follow ;  they  are  a  frugal,  indus- 
trious and  intelligent  people,  and  it  may  bo 
considered  inadvisable  by  them  to  join  a  jn'ople 
who,  in  the  short  term  of  ten  years,  by  a  course 
of  extravagance  and  prodigality  increased  the 
expenses  of  their  government  nearly  four  hun- 
dred per  cent.,  independent  of  the  incroa.<e  of 
the  public  debt.  They  might  also  call  to  mind 
the  Grand  Trunk  swindles. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — When  the  hon.  member 
said  that  there  liad  been  Grand  Trunk  swin- 
dles, ho  said  what  was  not  correct. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Perhaps  he  used  a 
wrong  term.  He  meant  Grand  Trunk  frauds. 
Thc)se  people  might  hesitate  about  councctiug 
them.st'ives  with  a  people  that  had  alnu)st 
brought  themselves  to  the  verge  of  national 
bankruptcy,  and  loaded  themselves  with  such 
a  heavy  tariff,  they  might  recall  to  mind  the 
j)olitical  dishonesty  of  our  juiblie  men,  men 
who  iuid  so  maligned  and  blackened  the  pub- 
!ii>  character  of  each  other  as  to  re<iuiro  a 
wider  uini'Q  and   a  new  audiciico  to   witness 


53 


their  future  acts.  They  would  also  observe 
that  all  formerly  ^connected  with  the  Grand 
Trunk  were  urging  this  scheme  forward.  He 
then  accused  the  GrOTemment  of  bad  faith  in 
bringing  down  these  resolutions,  instead  of  a 
measure  simply  for  the  Canadas  ;  that  the 
reform  party  only  committed  themselves  to 
the  latter  scheme  when  Mr.  Brown  entered 
the  Cabinet,  but  now  it  was  only  secondary. 
To  bear  this  out  he  read  the  following  reso- 
lution adopted  by  that  party  : — 

Moved  by  Mr.  Hope  McKekzie,  and  second- 
ed by  Mr.  McGiVERiy —  That  we  approve  of  the 
course  which  has  been  pursued  bj  Mr.  Browx  in 
the  negotiations  with  the  Government,  and  that 
we  approve  of  the  project  of  a  Federal  union  of 
the  Canadas,  with  provision  for  its  extension  to 
the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North-Western 
territory,  as  one  based  on  which  the  constitutional 
difficulties  now  existinst  should  be  settled. 

He  was  not  personally  opposed  to  Con- 
federation in  itself,  but  this  measure  was  so 
defective  that  he  could  not  support  it,  bearing, 
as  it  did,  the  seeds  of  decay  apparent  in  its 
details.  He  heartily  concurred  in  the  A-iews 
expressed  recently  at  Halifax,by  a  distinguished 
Upper  Canada  Statesman — (Mr.  Brown): — 
"  On  a  survey  of  the  whole  case,  I  do  think 
that  there  is  no  doubt  as  to  the  high  advan- 
tages that  would  result  from  a  union  of  all 
the  colonics,  provided  that  terms  of  union 
could  be  found  just  to  all  the  contracting 
parties,  and  so  framed  as  to  secure  harmony 
in  the  future  administration  of  affairs.  But 
it  were  wrong  to  conceal  for  a  moment  that 
the  whole  merit  of  the  scheme  of  union  may 
be  completely  marred  by  the  character  of  its 
details."  He  asked  who  would  not  say  that 
the  details,  of  this  measure  did  not  so  mar  as 
to  spoil  the  scheme.  If  we  are  to  have  a  Con- 
federation, let  it  be  put  itpon  a  proper  and 
permanent  foxmdation,  one  that  will  be  of  ad- 
vantage to  this  young  and  vigorous  province, 
and  he  expressed  the  hope  that  only  such  a 
scheme  would  be  sanctioned  by  Parliament. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  applause.) 

It  being  nearly  six  o'clock,  Hon.  Ms. 
Ross  moved  to  adjourn  the  debate  till  the 
morrow,  which  was  carried. 

The  House  then  adjourned. 


LEGISLATIVE     ASSEMBLY 


Tuesday,  February  7,  1865. 

Attt.  Gen.  CARTIER  rose  to  continue 
the  debate  on  Confederation.  He  said  that 
he  approached  this  subject  with  a  certain 
amount  of  diffidence,  knowing  it  was  not  the 
first  time  he  had  had  the  honor  of  speaking 
upon  it  in  the  Lower  Provinces  and  elsewhere. 
He  felt  that  this  was  a  momentous  occasion, 
as  for  anything  that  he  said  on  this  gi'ave 
question,  he  was  responsible  to  his  constituents 
and  the  country.  Respecting  this  grave  ques- 
tion, it  had  been  said  that  the  TACHfc-MAC- 
DONALD  Government  had  taken  upon  them- 
selves the  solution  of  a  problem  which  was  not 
at  the  time  of  ita  formation  before  the  coun- 
try, and  had  not  even  been  mooted.  Tho-se 
sa\-ing  so  were  ignorant  of  the  parliamentary 
history  of  the  past  few  years.  He  would  briefly 
refer  to  the  history  of  this  great  question,  as 
far  as  it  had  been  brought  before  the  Parlia- 
ment and  countr}\  When  the  C.4JITIER-3Iac- 
DONALD  Government  was  constructed,  after 
the  downfall  of  the  Brown-Dorion  Adminis- 
tration, a  programme  of  the  policy  of  the 
former  was  laid  before  Parliament.  Among 
the  subjects  contained  in  this  programme  of 
7th  August,  1858,  was  one  referred  to  in  the 
following  terms :  "  The  late  Government  felt 
themselves  bound  to  carry  out  the  law  of  the 
land  respecting  the  seat  of  Government,  but,  in 
the  face  of  the  recent  vote  on  that  subject,  the 
Administration  did  not  consider  themselves 
warranted  in  incurring  any  expenditure  for 
the  public  buildings,  until  Parliament  has  had 
an  opportunity  of  considering  the  whole  ques- 
tion in  all  its  bearings  ;  and  the  expediency  of 
a  Federal  Union  of  the  JBritish  North  American 
Provinces  will  be  anxiously  considered,  and 
communication  with  the  Home  Government 
and  the  Lower  Provinces  entered  into  forth- 
with on  the  subject ;  and  the  result  of  this 
communication  will  be  submitted  to  Parlia- 
ment at  its  next  session.  The  Government 
will,  during  the  recess,  examine  into  the  organ- 
ization and  working  of  the  public  departments, 
and  carry  out  such  administrative  reforms  as 
will  be  conducive  to  economy  and  efficiency." 
Here  was  this  scheme  of  a  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces mentioned  in  the  programme  of  the 
Cartier-Macdonald  Government,  in  1858. 
He  merely  quoted  this  passage  to  show  that 
neither  ParHameut  nor  the  country  was  now 
taken  by  surprise  with  regard  to  this  scheme. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  had  had  general  and  spe- 
cial elections  since  1858,  and  to  pretend  that 


51 


this  subject,  which  had  been  so  often  canvassed, 
was  new  to  the  country,  w?s  to  assert  an  un- 
truth. At  the  close  of  that  sess'on,  Sir  Edmund 
Head,  in  his  Speech  proroguing  Parliament, 
made  use  of  the  following  language: — "I 
propose,  in  the  course  of  the  recess,  to 
communicate  with  Her  Majesty's  Govern- 
ment, and  with  the  Governments  of  the  sister 
colonies,  on  another  matter  of  very  great  im- 
portance. I  am  desirous  of  inviting  them  to 
discuss  with  us  the  principles  on  which  a  bond 
of  a  federal  character,  uniting  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America,  may  perhaps  hereafter 
be  practicable."  In  accordance  with  that  an- 
nouncement of  policy,  a  deputation  was  sent  to 
England,  composed  of  his  then  colleagues, 
Hons.  Messrs.  Galt  and  lloss  and  himself 
We  pressed  the  matter  before  the  Imjwrial 
Government,  whom  we  asked  to  authorize  a 
meeting  of  delegates  from  the  British  North 
American  Governments,  to  consider  this  sub- 
ject and  report  upon  it,  said  report  to  be  com- 
municated to  the  Colonial  Secretary.  Of 
course  we  wanted,  at  that  time,  to  act  withtlie 
sanction  and  approval  of  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment. Wc  pressed  the  matter  as  strongly  as 
we  could  before  it.  Of  all  the  provinces  that 
responded  to  the  call  of  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment, Newfoundland,  he  thought,  was  the  only 
one  which  professed  her  readiness  to  appoint 
delegates  when  the  opportune  moment  arrived. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Although  the  other  provinces 
were  not  opposed  to  Confederation,  still,  as  the 
question  had  not  been  brought  conspicuously 
before  their  people,  they  did  not  like  then  to 
join  in  the  measure  and  in  the  proceedings 
which  the  Canadian  delegates  had  urged  upon 
the  Imperial  Government  in  1858.  At  this 
time  the  Canadian  Delegates  had  a  duty  to 
perform  towards  the  illustrious  Administrator 
of  the  Government,  Sir  E.  Head,  to  fulfil  the 
promise  he  had  made,  on  proroguing  Parlia- 
ment, by  pressing  the  measure  upon  the  atten- 
tion of  the  Imperial  Administration.  The 
Canadian  Government  also  kept  its  promLso 
to  report  to  the  House  the  result  of  the 
mission  to  England,  at  the  next  session  of 
Parliament,  The  lion,  gentleman  here  I'cad 
the  despatch  dated  October,  1858,  which  was 
transmitted  to  the  Imperial  Government,  set- 
ting forth  the  sectional  diificultics  which  had 
arisen  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
jjrincipally  on  account  of  the  former's  demand 
for  increased  representation  in  l*arliameiit,  on 
the  ground  of  its  much  larger  population. 
Everyone  who  knew  anything  uf  his  past  pu])- 
lic  course  was  aware  tliat  he  was  opjiosod  to 
the  principle  of  representatioa  by  population 


while  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  were  under 
one  Government.  He  did  not  regret  his  oppo- 
sition. If  such  a  measure  had  been  passed, 
what  would  have  been  the  consec(uence  ?  There 
would  have  been  constant  political  warfare  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  True  it  was 
that  the  members  from  Upper  Canada,  being 
in  the  majority,  it  might  have  been  imagined 
they  would  have  carried  everything  before 
them;  but  as  far  as  justice  to  Lower  Canada 
was  concerned,  such  might  not  have  been  the 
case.  The  consequence  of  representation  by 
population  would  have  been  that  one  territory 
would  have  governed  another,  and  this  fact 
would  have  presented  itself  session  after  sc&- 
siou  in  the  House,  and  day  after  day  in 
the  public  prints.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  mo- 
ment this  principle  had  been  conceded  as  the 
governing  element,  it  would  have  initiated 
between  the  two  provinces  a  warfare  which 
would  have  been  imremitting.  (Hear,  hear.) 
lie  wished  that  Upper  Canada  should  un- 
derstand him  in  this  matter.  He  was  ac- 
cused of  being  opposed  to  Upper  Canada's 
rights,  because  during  fifteen  or  twenty  years 
he  had  to  oppose  his  honorable  friend  the 
President  of  the  Council  (Hon.  Mk.  Bkown). 
His  honorable  colleague  took  the  ground  that 
representation  should  be  arranged  according 
to  population  in  each  section  of  the  prov- 
ince. He  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartieu)  had  resisted 
that  position,  believing  that  tha  moment  such 
a  principle  was  applied,  his  honorable  friend, 
who,  no  doubt,  wanted  to  maintain  the  peaco- 
ful  government  of  the  country,  would  have 
been  disappointed  in  his  wish.  It  would  have 
given  rise  to  one  of  the  bitterest  struggles 
between  the  two  provinces  that  ever  took  place 
between  two  nations.  He  did  not  mean  to 
say  that  the  majority  from  Upper  Canada 
would  have  tyrannized  over  Lower  Canada  ; 
but  the  idea  that  Upper  Canada,  as  a  terri- 
tory, had  the  preponderenco  in  the  Govern- 
ment by  a  large  number  of  representatives, 
would  have  been  sufficient  to  generate  that 
sectional  strife  to  which  he  had  lilluded.  In 
1858  he  first  saw  that  representation  by 
population,  though  unauitod  for  application  ns  a 
governing  principle  as  between  tlio  two  pro- 
vinces, would  not  involve  the  same  objection  if 
other  partners  were  drawn  in  by  a  fodi'ration. 
In  a  struggle  between  two — ono  a  wojik,  and 
the  other  a  strong  party — the  weaker  could  not 
but  be  overcome ;  but  if  throe  jiartics  were 
concerned,  the  stronger  would  not  havo  the 
same  advantage;  as  wlien  it  was  .seen  by  the 
third  that  there  was  too  much  strength  on  ono 
side,  the  third  would  club  with  the  weaker 


56 


combatant  to  resist  the  big  fighter.     (Cheers 
and    laughter.)      He    did    not    oppose    the 
principle    of     representation    by  population 
from    an    unwillingness    to    do    justice     to 
Upper  Canada.     He  took  this  ground,  how- 
ever, that  when  justice  was   done   to  Upper 
Canada,  it  was  his  duty  to  see  that  no  injustice 
was  done  to  Lower  Canada.  He  did  not  entertain 
the  slightest  apprehension  that  Lower  Canada's 
rights  were  in  the  least  jeopardized  by  the  provi- 
sion that  in  the  General  Legislature  the  French 
Canadians  of  Lower  Canada   would  have  a 
smaller  number  of  representatives  than  all  the 
other  origins  combined.  It  would  be  seen  by  the 
resolutions  that  in  the  questions  which  would 
be  submitted  to  the  General  Parliament  there 
could  be  no  danger  to  the  rights  and  privi- 
leges of  either  French  Canadians,  Scotchmen, 
Englishmen  or  Irishmen.     Questions  of  com- 
merce, of  international  communication,  and 
all  matters  of  general  interest,  would  be  dis- 
cussed and  determined  in  the  General  Legis- 
lature ;  but  in  the   exercise  of  the  functions 
of  the  General  Government,  no  one  could  ap- 
prehend that  anything  could  be  enacted  which 
would  harm  or  do  injustice  to  persons  of  any 
nationality.     He  did  not  intend  to  go  into 
the  details  of  the  question  of  Confederation, 
but  merely  to  bring   before   the  House  the 
most  conspicuous  arguments  in  order  to  induce 
members  to  accept  the  resolutions  submitted 
by  the  Government.     Confederation  was,  as 
it  were,  at  this  moment  almost  forced  upon 
us.     We  could  not  shut  our  eyes  to  what  was 
going   on  beyond  the  lines,    where  a  great 
struggle  was  going  on  between  two  Confedera- 
cies, at  one  time  forming  but  one  Confederacy. 
We  saw  that  a  government,  established  not 
more  than  80  years  ago,  had  not  been  able  to 
keep  together  the  family  of  states  which  had 
broke  up  four  or  five  years  since.     We  could 
not  deny  that  the  struggle  now  in  progress 
must  necessarily  influence  our  political  exist- 
ence.    We  did  not  know  what  would  be  the 
result  of  that  great  war — whether  it  would 
end  in  the  establishment  of  two  Confederacies 
or  in  one  as  before.     However,  we  had  to  do 
with  five  colonies,  inhabited  by  men  of  the 
same  sympathies  and  interests,   and  in  order 
to  become  a  great  nation  they  required   only 
to  be  brought  together  under   one  General 
Government.  The  matter  resolved  itself  into 
this,   either  we  must  obtain  British   North 
American  Confederation  or  be  absorbed  in  an 
American   Confederation.     (Hear,  hear,  and 
dissent.)     Some  entertained  the  opinion  that 
it  was   unnecessary   to   have  British   North 
American  Confederation  to  prevent  absorption 


into  the  vortex  of  American  Confederation. 
Such  parties  were  mistaken.  We  knew  the 
policy  of  England  towards  us — that  she  was 
determined  to  help  and  support  us  in  any 
struggle  with  our  neighbors.  The  British 
Provinces,  separated  as  at  present,  could  »ot 
defend  themselves  alone,  and  the  question 
resolved  itself  into  this :  shall  the  whole 
strength  of  the  empire  be  concentrated  into 
Prince  Edward  Island,  or  Canada,  as  the  case 
may  be,  in  case  of  a  war  with  the  United 
States — or  shall  the  provinces  be  left  to  fight 
single-handed,  disunited  ?  We  were  not  suf- 
ficiently united.  We  had  our  duties,  with 
regard  to  England,  to  perform.  In  order  to 
secure  the  exercise  of  her  power  in  our  defence 
we  must  help  her  ourselves.  We  could  not  do 
this  satisfactorily  or  efficiently  unless  we  had 
a  Confederation.  When  all  united,  the  enemy 
would  know  that,  if  he  attacked  any  part  of 
those  provinces — Prince  Edward  Island  or 
Canada — he  would  have  to  encounter  the  com- 
bined strength  of  the  empire.  Canada,  sepa- 
rate, would  be,  although  comparatively  strong 
in  population  and  wealth,  in  a  dangerous  posi- 
tion should  a  war  ensue.  When  we  had 
organized  our  good  defensive  force,  and  united 
for  mutual  protection,  England  would  send 
freely  here  both  men  and  treasure  for  our 
defence.  (Cheers.)  He  had  stated  before 
audiences  in  the  Lower  Provinces  that,  as 
far  as  territory,  population  and  wealth  were 
concerned,  Canada  was  stronger  than  any 
of  the  other  provinces,  but  at  the  same 
time  was  wanting  in  one  element  necessary 
to  national  greatness — the  maritime  one ; 
and  that,  owing  to  the  large  trade  and  com- 
merce of  Canada,  extensive  communication 
with  Great  Britain  at  all  seasons  was  abso- 
lutely necessary.  Twenty  years  ago  our  com- 
merce for  the  year  could  be  managed  by  com- 
munication with  Great  Britain  in  the  summer 
months  only.  At  present,  however,  this  system 
was  insufiicient,  and  for  winter  communication 
with  the  sea-board  we  were  left  to  the  caprice 
of  our  American  neighbors,  through  whose 
territory  we  must  pass.  He  had  also  alluded 
to  the  bonding  system,  which  if  the  Americans 
were  to  withdraw,  Canada  would  be  left  in 
winter  without  any  winter  harbors.  Canada, 
having  two  or  three  elements  of  national 
greatness — territory  and  population — wanted 
the  maritime  element ;  and  as  he  had  said, — 
the  Lower  Provinces  had  tliis  element  and  a 
sea-board,  but  not  not  a  back  country  or  large 
population,  which  Canada  possessed, — and  for 
the  mutual  benefit  and  prosperity  of  all  the 
provinces,  all  these  elements  ought  to  be  united 


66 


together.  Those  who  pretended  that  the  British 
North  American  Prorincea  would  be  in  as  safe 
a  position,  remaining  separate,  while  they 
belonged  to  the  British  Crown,  as  under 
Confederation,  were  under  great  misappre- 
h^sion.  Now  was  the  time  for  us  to  form  a 
great  nation  of  the  several  provinces.  Now 
was  the  time  to  look  the  matter  in  the  face 
and  adopt  the  only  safe  and  prudent  course 
open  to  us  in  the  shape  of  Confederation. 
He  maintained  it  was  necessary  for  our  own 
commercial  interests,  prosperity  and  efficient 
defence.  That  was  what  we  had  now  to  dis- 
cuss, and  not  the  manner  in  which  Confedera- 
tion was  to  be  brought  about,  which  would  be 
discussed  when  the  details  of  the  scheme  came 
up  for  consideration.  At  present  the  question 
was :  Was  Confederation  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces  necessary  in  order  to  in- 
crease our  strength  and  power  and  secure  to  us 
the  continuance  of  the  benefits  of  British 
connection  ?  He  had  no  doubt  that  the  measure 
was  necessary  for  those  objects.  It  would  be 
observed  that  the  English  speaking  opponents 
of  the  scheme,  in  Lower  Canada,  pretended 
a  fear  of  this  element  being  absorbed  by  the 
French  Canadian ;  while  the  opponents,  com- 
posed of  the  latter  origin — of  men  who  might 
be  called  the  old  Papineau  Tail — whose  sole 
idea  was  annexation  to  the  United  States — said 
they  were  afraid  of  the  extinction  of  French 
Canadian  nationality  in  the  great  Confedera- 
tion. The  annexation  party  in  Montreal, 
including  the  followers  of  Mr.  John  Dougall, 
the  proprietor  of  the  Witness,  opposed  the 
scheme  on  the  gi-ound  of  supposed  danger  to 
the  British  of  Lower  Canada.  The  annexa- 
tion party  could  not,  however,  be  supposed 
to  be  sincere  in  their  opposition  to  the  scheme — 
except  in  so  far  as  they  desired  to  carry 
Canada  into  the  American  Union.  The 
absorption  of  this  province  into  the  United 
States  had  long  been  contemplated,  as  would 
be  seen  from  the  7th  article  in  the  orijjinal 
draft  of  tho  American  Constitution,  which  lie 
would  read.  It  was  as  follows :  "  Art.  7. 
Canada,  according  to  this  Confederation  and 
joining  in  tlie  measures  of  the  United  States, 
shall  bo  admitted  into,  and  entitled  to  nil  tho 
advantages  of  this  union ;  and  shall  bo  equally 
with  any  other  of  the  United  Stated,  solemnly 
bound  to  a  strict  observance  of,  and  obedience 
to,  those  articles ;  as  shall  bo  also  any  other 
colony  which  shall  bo  admitted  into  this  Con- 
federacy. The  eleven  votes  in  Congress  shall 
be  increased  in  proportion  as  tho  Confederacy 
is  extended.  But,  except  Canada,  no  other 
colony  slmll  be  admitted  into  the  Ctmfcderncy 


without  the  assent  of  eleven  or  more  votes,  aa 
the  case  niay  require,  by  the  Confederation 
being  extended."  By  that  article,  no  new 
state  could  go  into  the  union  except  by  the 
vote  of  the  number  of  states  required  to  admit 
a  new  partner.  But,  as  regarded  Canada,  no 
such  assent  was  required  ;  on  knocking  at  the 
door  of  the  union,  she  would,  an  a  matter  of 
course,  be  admitted.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
honorable  gentleman  went  on  to  say  that  the 
papers  lately  contained  a  report  of  a  meeting 
at  the  Institut  Canadien  of  Montreal,  where 
it  was  resolved  that  it  was  for  the  interests  of 
Lower  Canada — in  the  interests  of  the  French 
Canadians,  were  the  province  to  become  a 
part  of  the  American  Union. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  said  that  was  not  the 
case.  The  honorable  gentleman  had  misquoted 
what  had  passed  there. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAKTIER  said  he  was  right. 
If  resolutions  were  not  passed,  sentiments  were 
expressed  to  that  effect.  Then  the  organ  of 
the  Institute — L' Ordre,  he  thought — had  set 
forth  that  the  interests  of  Lower  Canada 
would  be  better  secured  by  annexation  to  the 
United  States  than  entering  into  a  Confedera- 
tion with  the  British  American  Provinces. 
It  was  no  wonder,  then,  that  tho  French 
Canadian  annexationists  beti'ayed  their  pur- 
pose in  opposition  to  British  North  American 
Confederation,  and  that  their  English-speaking 
colleagues  pretended  a  fear  of  the  rights  of 
their  class  being  jeopardized  under  Confedera- 
tion. We  knew  their  object  in  this — that 
they  were  aware  that  as  soon  as  this  project 
was  adopted,  there  would  be  no  avail  in  :iny 
cry  of  separation  to  form  a  part  of  the  Ameri- 
can Union.  (Hear,  hear,)  There  had  boon 
a  good  deal  of  fault-finding  and  complaint  as 
to  the  proceedings  of  tho  delegates  having 
been  conducted  with  closed  doors.  Such  a 
cour.«(e  w.na  an  absolute  necessity.  Every  one 
could  understand  that  if  all  the  difficulties 
arising  among  the  representatives  of  the  five 
colonies,  during  the  Conference,  had  gone 
every  morning  to  tho  public,  it  would  have 
been  impossible  for  the  delegates  to  continue 
to  meet,  or  compromise  any  of  the  diffieulties 
that  might  be  expected  to  spring  up.  Be- 
sides, tiie  proceedings  of  the  Amoriean  Con- 
gress of  1782  was  held  with  closed  doi>rs,  and 
their  proceedings  were  not  published  while 
matters  were  progrcs.''ing.  With  n>gard  to 
this,  lie  would  (jnoto  from  »  letter  of  Col. 
Mason,  a  mombor  of  the  Convention  : — "  Mi 
communications  of  the  proceediniis  arc  for- 
bidden during  the  sitting  of  this  Convention; 
this,  I  think,   waa  n  noccs.'iary    precaution   to 


67 


prevent  misrepresentations  or  mistakes  ;  there 
being  a  material  difference  between  the  appear- 
ance of  a  subject  in  its  first  crude  and  indigested 
shape  and  after  it  shall  have  been  properly 
matured  and  arranged."  On  the  same  princi- 
ple the  Conference  at  Quebec  very  properly 
sat  with  closed  doors.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
wished,  however,  that  the  British  Canadian 
public  should  know  the  result  of  our  labors 
when  concluded,  and  that  result  the  Parliament 
and  people  of  Canada  had  before  their  con- 
sideration, and  it  was  for  them  to  discuss  its 
merits.  We,  on  this  side  of  the  House — 
the  members  of  the  Government  and  their 
supporters — ^had  come  to  the  conclusion  that 
Federation  was  desirable  and  necessary ;  and 
we  were  ready  to  hear  the  honorable  gentle- 
men on  the  other  side  who  necessarily,  from 
their  standing,  were  supposed  to  have  devoted 
their  attention  to  it  and  appreciated  their 
position,  stating  what  in  their  opinion  would 
be  sufficient  in  order  to  maintain  ourselves  as 
a  British  colony  on  this  side  of  the  Atlantic, 
and  to  increase  in  wealth  and  power.  He  was 
aware  that  some  members  of  the  House,  and  a 
number  of  people  in  Upper  Canada,  in  Lower 
Canada  and  in  the  Lower  Provinces,  were  of 
opinion  that  a  Legislative  Union  ought  to 
have  taken  place  instead  of  a  Federal  Union. 
He  would  say,  however,  at  the  outset,  that  it 
was  impossible  to  have  one  Government  to 
deal  with  all  the  private  and  local  interests 
of  the  several  sections  of'  the  several  provinces 
forming  the  combined  whole.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  next  question  to  be  considered,  therefore, 
by  those  who  had  set  to  work  to  discover  a 
solution  of  the  difficulties  under  which  we  had 
labored,  was — what  was  the  best  and  most 
practicable  mode  of  bringing  the  provinces 
together,  so  that  particular  rights  and  interests 
should  be  properly  guarded  and  protected? 
No  other  scheme  presented  itself  but  the 
Federation  system,  and  that  was  the  project 
which  now  recommended  itself  to  the  Par- 
liament of  Canada.  Some  parties — through 
the  press  and  by  other  modes — pretended  that 
it  was  impossible  to  carry  out  Federation,  on 
account  of  the  differences  of  races  and  religions. 
Those  who  took  this  view  of  the  question 
were  in  error.  It  was  just  the  reverse.  It 
was  precisely  on  account  of  the  variety  of 
races,  local  interests,  &c.,  that  the  Federation 
system  ought  to  be  resorted  to,  and  would  be 
found  to  work  well.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
were  in  the  habit  of  seeing  in  some  public 
journals,  and  hearing  from  some  public  men, 
that  it  was  a  great  misfortune  indeed  there 
should  be  a  drffereno©  of  raeea  in  this  colony 


— that  there  should  be  the  distinction  of 
French  Canadian  from  British  Canadian.  Now, 
he  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartier)  desired  on  this  point  to 
vindicate  the  rights,  the  merits,  the  usefulness, 
so  to  speak,  of  those  belonging  to  the  French 
Canadian  race.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  order  to 
bring  these  merits  and  this  usefulness  more 
prominently  before  his  hearers,  it  would  be 
only  necessary  to  allude  to  the  efforts  made 
by  them  to  sustain  British  power  on  this  con- 
tinent, and  to  point  out  their  adherence  to 
British  supremacy  in  trying  times.  We  were 
all  conversant  with  the  history  of  the  circum- 
stances which  hid  brought  about  the  difficul- 
ties between  England  and  her  former  Ameri- 
can colonies  in  1775.  Lower  Canada, — or 
rather  he  should  say,  the  Province  of  Quebec, 
for  the  colony  was  not  then  known  by  the 
name  of  Canada,  but  was  called  the  Province 
of  Quebec, — contained  the  most  dense  popula- 
tion of  any  British  colony  in  North  America  at 
that  time.  The  accession  of  Lower  Canada  was 
of  course  an  object  of  envy  to  the  other  Amer- 
ican colonies,  and  strenuous  efforts  were  made 
by  those  who  had  resolved  to  overthrow  British 
power  on  this  continent  to  induce  Canada 
to  ally  herself  to  their  cause.  As  early  as 
1775,  the  French  Canadians  were  solemnly 
addressed  in  a  proclamation  by  General  Wash- 
ington, who  called  upon  them  to  abandon  the 
flag  of  their  new  masters,  inasmuch  as  they 
could  not  expect  anything  from  those  who  dif- 
fered from  them  in  language,  in  religion,  in 
race,  and  in  sympathies.  But  what  was  the 
conduct  of  the  French  Canadian  people  under 
these  circumstances — what  was  the  attitude  of 
the  clergy  and  the  seigniors  ?  It  was  right  in 
treating  this  chapter  of  our  history,  to  render 
justice  to  whom  justice  was  due,  and  it  was 
truth  to  say  that  the  seigniors,  forming,  as  they 
did,  the  educated  class  of  our  population  at 
that  early  epoch,  had  fully  understood  that 
the  object  and  aim  of  those  who  appealed  to 
them  was  the  downfall  of  the  monarchical  sys- 
tem in  America.  (Hear,  hear.)  A  few  years 
only  had  elapsed  at  that  time  since  the  trans- 
fer of  the  country  and  its  population  from  the 
Crown  of  France  to  the  Crown  of  Great  Bri- 
tain ;  but  even  within  that  brief  interval  of 
time,  they  were  enabled  to  appreciate  the  ad- 
vantages of  their  new  position,  notwithstanding 
the  fact  that  they  were  still  struggling  and 
complaining.  The  people,  as  well  as  the  clergy 
and  aristocracy,  had  understood  that  it  was 
better  for  them  to  remain  under  the  English 
and  Protestant  Crown  of  England,  rather  than 
to  become  republicans.  (Hear,  hear.)  They 
were  proof  against  the  insidious   offers   c^ 


58 


George  Washington  ;  and  not  only  so,  but 
when  the  Americans  came  as  invaders,  they 
fought  against  the  armed  forces  of  Arnold, 
Montgomery  and  others.  (Cheers.)  At- 
tempts were  made  to  excite  hostility  to  Feder- 
ation on  the  ground  that,  under  the  regime  of  a 
local  legislature,  the  English  Protestant  minor- 
ity would  not  be  fairly  dealt  with.  He  thought 
the  way  in  which  the  French  Canadians  had 
stood  by  British  connection,  when  there  were 
but  few  British  in  the  piovince,  was  a  proof 
that  they  would  not  attempt  to  deal  unjustly 
DOW  by  the  British  minority,  when  their  num- 
bers were  so  much  greater.  On  this  point, 
appealing  to  the  evidence  of  history,  he  would 
quote  from  the  work  which  he  had  already 
quoted.  At  a  time  when  there  were,  perhaps, 
hardly  a  few  hundred  English  Protestant  resi- 
dents in  Lower  Canada,  the  address  in  the 
name  of  Washington,  to  which  he  had  already 
briefly  referred,  was  circulated  throughout 
the  country  by  Arnold's  invading  army. 
The  hon.  gentleman  here  read  a  number  of  ex- 
tracts from  General  Washington's  proclama- 
tion, addressed  to  the  inhabitants  of  Canada. 
It  made  the  most  earnest  appeals  to  the  Lower 
Canadians  to  join  the  other  colonies.  "  Wo 
rejoice,"  said  General  Washington,  "  that 
our  enemies  have  been  deceived  with  regard  to 
you ;  they  have  persuaded  themselves — they 
have  even  dared  to  say — that  the  Canadians 
were  not  capable  of  distinguishing  between  the 
blessings  of  liberty  and  the  wretchedness  of 
slavery  ;  that  gratifying  the  vanity  of  a  little 
circle  of  nobility  would  blind  the  people  of 
Canada.  By  such  aitifices  they  hoped  to  bend 
you  to  their  views,  but  they  have  been  de- 
ceived. *  *  *  Come  then,  my  brethern, 
unite  with  us  in  an  indissoluble  union;  let  us 
run  together  to  the  same  goal.  *  *  * 
Incited  by  these  motives,  and  encouraged  by 
the  advice  of  many  friends  of  liberty  among 
you,  the  grand  American  Congress  have  sent 
an  army  into  your  province,  under  the  com- 
mand of  General  Schuyler— not  to  plunder  but 
to  protect  you — to  animate  and  bring  forth  into 
action  those  sentiments  of  freedom  you  have 
disclosed,  and  which  the  tools  of  despotism 
would  extinguish  through  the  whole  creation. 
To  co-operate  with  this  design,  and  to  frustrate 
those  cruel  and  perlidious  schemes,  which 
would  deluge  our  frontiers  with  the  blood  of 
women  and  children,  I  have  dcsp  it.'licd  Colon*  1 
Arnold  into  your  country,  with  a  part  of  the 
army  under  my  command.  1  have  enjoined 
upon  him,  and  I  am  certain  that  he  will  con- 
•ider  himself,  and  act  as  in  the  country  of  his 
patrons  and   best  friends.     Necessaries  and 


accommodations  of  every  kind  which  you  may 
furnish  he  will  thankfully  receive  and  render 
the  full  value.  I  invite  you,  therefore,  as 
/riends  and  brethren,  to  provide  him  with 
such  supplies  as  your  country  affords  ;  and  I 
pledge  myself  not  only  for  your  safety  and  se- 
curity, but  for  an  ample  compensation.  Let 
no  man  desert  his  habitation — let  no  one  flee 
as  before  an  enemy.  The  cause  of  America 
and  of  liberty  is  the  cause  of  every  virtuous 
American  citizen,  whatever  may  be  his  religion 
or  descent.  The  united  colonies  know  no  dis- 
tinction but  such  as  slavery,  corruption  and 
arbitrary  dominion  may  create.  Come  then, 
ye  generous  citizens,  range  yourselves  under 
the  standard  of  general  liberty — against  which 
all  the  force  of  artifice  and  tjTanny  will  never 
be  able  to  prevail."  It  appeared  by  this  ad- 
dress that  the  most  tempting  ofl"ers  and  promi- 
ses had  been  made  by  the  republicfin  general ; 
but  they  had  failed,  nevertheless,  to  accom- 
plish the  desired  effect.  This,  however,  was 
not  the  only  trait  of  this  nature  in  the  history 
of  the  French  Canadian  people.  There  was 
another  despatch,  or  rather  proclamation,  issued 
in  1778,  by  Baron  DEstaing,  commander  of 
the  French  fleet,  which  was  acting  in  aid  of 
the  American  revolutionary  party.  The 
honorable  gentleman  read  some  extracts  from 
this  proclamation,  as  follows  : — "  I  shall  not 
ask  the  military  companions  of  the  Marquis  of 
Lfivis,  those  who  shared  his  glory,  who  ad- 
mired his  talents  and  genius  for  war,  who  loved 
his  cordiality  and  frankness,  the  principal 
characteristics  of  our  nobility,  whether  there 
be  other  names  in  other  nations  among  which 
they  would  be  better  pleased  to  place  their  ONvn. 
Can  the  Canadians,  who  saw  the  brave  Mont- 
calm fall  in  their  defence — can  they  become 
the  enemies  of  his  nephews  ?  Can  they  tight 
against  their  former  leaders,  and  arm  them- 
selves against  their  kinsmen  ?  At  the  bare  men- 
tion of  their  names,  the  weapons  would  fall  out 
of  their  hands.  I  shall  not  observe  to  the  min- 
isters of  the  altars,  that  their  evangelic  efl'orts 
will  require  the  special  protection  of  Providence, 
to  prevent  faith  being  dimiuished  by  example, 
by  worldly  interest,  and  by  sovereigns  whom 
force  has  imposed  upon  them,  and  whose  poli- 
tical indulgence  will  be  lessened  proportionably 
na  those  sovereigns  shall  have  less  to  fear.  I 
shall  not  observe  that  it  is  neceasary  for  reli- 
gion that  those  who  preach  it  should  ibrm  a 
body  in  the  state ;  and  that  in  Canada  no 
other  body  would  be  more  considered,  or  have 
more  power  to  do  good  than  that  of  the 
priests,  taking  a  part  in  the  Government, 
since  their  respectable  conduct  has  merited  the 


69 


confidence  of  the  people.     I   shall  not  repre- 
sent to  that  people,  nor  to  all  my  countrymen 
in  general,  that  a  vast  monarchy,  having  the 
same  religion,  the  same  manners,   the   same 
language,  where  they  find  kinsmen,  old  friends 
and  bi'ethren,  must  be  an  inexhaustible  source 
of  commerce  and  wealth,  more  easily  acquired 
and  better  secured  by  their  union  with  power- 
ful neighbors,  than  with  strangers  of  another 
hemisphere,  among  whom   everything  is  dif- 
ferent, and  who,  jealous  and   despotic   sover- 
eigns would,  sooner  or  later,  treat  them  as  a 
conquered  people,  and  doubtless  much  worse 
than  their  late  countrymen,  the  Americans, 
who  made  them  victorious.     I  shall  not  urge 
to  a  whole  people  that  to  join  with  the  United 
States  is  to  secure  their  own  happiness,  since 
a  whole  people,  when  they  acquire  the    right 
of  thinking  and  acting   for   themselves,   must 
know  their  own  interest.     But  I  will  declare, 
and  I  now  formally  declare  in  the  name  of 
His  Majesty,  who  has  authorized  and  com- 
manded me  to  do  it,  that  all  his  former  sub- 
jects in  North  America,  who  shall   no  more 
acknowledge  the  supremacy  of  Great  Britain, 
may  depend  upon  his  protection  and  support." 
D'EsTAiNG  had  appealed  to  their  ancestry  and 
their  prejudices ;  he  had  invoked  the  names  of 
Lfivis  and  Montcalm,  and  endeavored  to  in- 
fluence their  clergy ;  but  the  French  Canadians 
understood  their  position  too  well.  If  they  had 
their   institutions,  their   language  and   their 
religion  intact  to-day,  it  was  precisely  because 
of  their  adherence  to  the  British  Crown.     Had 
they  yielded  to  the  appeals  of  Washington 
and  Baron  D'Estaing,  it  is  probable  that  there 
would  not  have  been  now  a  vestige  of  British 
power  on  this  continent.     But,  with  the  dis- 
appearance of  British  power,  they  too  would 
have  disappeared  as  French  Canadians.   (Hear, 
hear.)     These  historical    facts   taught    that 
there  should  be  a  mutual  feeling  of  gratitude 
from    the    French    Canadians    towards    the 
British,  and  from   the  British  towards  the 
French  Canadians,   for  our  present  position, 
that  Canada  is  still  a  British  colony.     (Hear, 
hear.)     He  had  had  occasion,  a  moment  ago, 
to  refer  to  the  French  Canadian  clergy  in  con- 
nection  with   D'Estaing's  address,   and  he 
would  say  this,  to  their  honor  and  ci-edit,  that, 
if  to-day  Canada  was  a  portion  of  the  British 
Empire,  it  was  due  to  the  consei-vatism  of  the 
French  Canadian  clergy.     (Cheers.)     It  was 
a  pleasure  to  him  thus  to  be  able  to  quote  from 
these   old   documents   proofs   of    the   honor, 
loyalty,  and  liberality  of  the  French  Canadiaii 
people.  He  (Hon.  Mr.  C artier)  was  as  devoid 
of  prejudice  as  any  honorable  gentleman  in  this 


House  ;  but  when  he  heard  or  read  the  state- 
ments occasionally  made,  that  there  was  some 
danger  that,  under  the  Federation  system,  the 
French  Canadians  would  have  too  much  power, 
and  that  the  power  thus  obtained  would  be 
used  to  the  prejudice  of  the  British  and  Pro- 
testant minority — the  history  of  the  past,  in 
many  instances,   was  the  best  reply  to  such 
attacks.     (Hear,   hear.)     Baron  D'Estaing 
issued  his  tempting  proclamation  in  1778,  and 
it  was  sent  into  Canada  frequently  afterwards, 
and  circulated  at  the  instigation  of  RocHAM- 
BEAU  and  Lafayette;  but  our  clergy  and 
our  aristocracy,  the  leaders  of  our  people  in 
these  days,  saw  that  it  was  not  their  interest 
to  cast  their  lot  with  the  democratic  element — 
they  knew  the  hollowness  of  democracy.  (Hear, 
hear.)     We  found   ourselves  at  the  present 
day  discussing  the  question  of  the  Federation 
of  the   British    North  American    Provinces, 
while  the  great  Federation  of  the  United  States 
of  America  was  broken  up  and  divided  against 
itself.     There  was,  however,    this  important 
difference  to  be  observed  in  considering  the 
action  of  the  two  peoples.     They  had  founded 
Federation  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  out  and 
perpetuating    democracy   on   this  continent; 
but  we,  who  had  the  benefit  of  being  able  to 
contemplate  republicanism  in  action  during  a 
period  of  eighty  years,  saw  its  defects,  and  felt 
convinced  that  purely  democratic  institutions 
could  not  be  conducive  to  the  peace  and  pros- 
perity of  nations.    We  were  not  now  discussing 
the  great  problem  presented  to  our  considera- 
tion, in  order  to  propagate  democratic  princi- 
ples. Our  attempt  was  for  the  purpose  of  form- 
ing a  Federation  with  a  view  of  perpetuating  the 
monarchical  elemeut.     The  distinction,  there- 
fore, between  ourselves  and  our  neighbors  wja— 
just  this : — In  our  Federatioa  the  moTiarchical 
principle  would  form  the  leading  feature,  while 
on  the  other  side  of  the  lines,  judging  by  the 
past    history   and    present  condition  of   the 
country,  the  ruling  power  was  the  will  of  the 
mob,  the  rule  of  the  populace.     Every  per- 
son who  had  conversed  with  the  most  intelli- 
gent American  statesmen  and  writers  must 
have  learned  that  they  all  admitted  that  the 
governmental  powers  had  become  too  extend- 
ed,  owing   to  the  introduction  of   universal 
suff"rage,  and  mob  i  ule  had  consequently  sup- 
planted legitimate  authority;  and  we  now  saw 
the  sad  spectacle  of  a  country  torn  by  civil 
war,  and  brethren  fighting  against  brethren. 
The  question  for  us  to  ask  ourselves  was  this : 
Shall  we  be  content  to  remain  separate — shall 
we   be  content   to  maintain  a  mere    provin- 
cial existence,  when,    by  combining  together, 


60 


we  could  become  a  great  nation  ?  It  had 
never  yet  been  the  good  fortune  of  any  group 
of  communities  to  secure  national  greatness 
with  such  facility.  In  past  ages,  warriors  had 
struggled  for  years  for  the  addition  to  their 
country  of  a  single  province.  We  had  too, 
for  instance,  in  our  own  days,  the  case  of 
Napoleon  III,  who,  after  great  expenditure 
of  blood  and  treasure  in  the  Italian  difficulty, 
had  acquired  Savoy  and  Nice,  by  which  he 
had  obtained  an  addition  of  nearly  one  mil- 
lion inhabitants  to  France — only  one  million 
souls,  and  if  any  person  were  for  a  moment 
to  make  a  calculation  of  the  value  of  the 
provinces  acquired  on  one  side,  and  the  great 
cost  on  the  other,  he  would  at  once  see  the 
great  disproportion  between  the  one  and  the 
other,  and  so  ascertain  the  fact  that  the  ter- 
ritory acquired  did  not  compensate  the  outlay. 
Here,  in  British  North  America,  we  had  five 
different  communities  inhabiting  five  separate 
colonies.  We  had  the  same  sympathies,  and 
we  all  desired  to  live  under  the  British  Crown. 
We  had  our  commercial  interests  besides.  It 
was  of  no  use  whatever  that  New  Brunswick, 
Nova  Scotia  and  Newfoundland  should  have 
their  several  custom  houses  against  our  trade, 
or  that  we  should  have  custom  houses  against 
the  trade  of  those  provinces.  In  ancient  times, 
the  manner  in  which  a  nation  grew  up  was 
different  from  that  of  the  present  day.  Then 
the  first  weak  settlement  increased  into  a  vil- 
lage, which,  by  turns,  became  a  town  and  a 
city,  and  the  nucleus  of  a  nation.  It  was 
not  so  in  modern  times.  Nations  were  now 
formed  by  the  agglomeration  of  communities 
having  kindred  interests  and  sympathies. 
Such  was  our  case  at  the  present  moment. 
Objection  had  been  taken  to  the  scheme  now 
under  consideration,  because  of  the  words 
"  new  nationality."  Now,  when  we  were 
united  together,  if  union  were  attained,  we 
would  form  a  political  nationality  with  which 
neither  the  national  origin,  nor  the  religion  of 
any  individual,  would  interfere.  It  was  la- 
mented by  some  that  we  had  this  diversity  of 
races,  and  hopes  were  expressed  that  this  dis- 
tinctive feature  would  cease.  The  idea  of  unity 
of  races  was  Utopian — it  was  impossible.  Dis- 
tinctions of  this  kind  would  always  exist.  Dis- 
similarity, in  fact,  appeared  to  be  tlio  order  of 
the  physical  world  and  of  the  moral  world,  as 
well  as  in  the  political  world.  IJut  with  regard 
to  the  objection  based  on  this  fact,  to  the 
effect  that  a  great  nation  could  not  be  formed 
because  Lower  Canada  was  in  great  part 
French  and  Catholic,  and  Upper  Canada  was 
British  and  Prote8tant,and  the  LowerProvinoe* 


were  mixed,  it  was  futile  and  worthless  in  the 
extreme.  Look,  for  instance,  at  the  United 
Kangdom,  inhabited  as  it  was  by  three  great 
races.  (Hear,  hear.)  Had  the  diversity  of 
race  impeded  the  glory,  the  progress,  the  wealth 
of  England?  Had  they  not  rather  each  con- 
tributed their  share  to  the  greatness  of  the 
Empire  ?  Of  the  glories  of  the  senate,  the 
field,  and  the  ocean,  of  the  successes  of  trade 
and  commerce,  how  much  was  contributed  by 
the  combined  talents,  energy  and  courage  of 
the  three  races  together  ?  (Cheers.)  In  our 
own  Federation  we  should  have  Catholic  and 
Protestant,  English,  French,  Irish  and  Scotch, 
and  each  by  his  efforts  and  his  success  would 
increase  the  prosperity  and  glory  of  the  new 
Confederacy.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  viewed  the 
diversity  of  races  in  British  North  America  in 
this  way :  we  were  of  different  races,  not  for 
the  purpose  of  warring  against  each  other,  but 
in  order  to  compete  and  emulate  for  the  gen- 
eral welfare.  (Cheers.)  We  could  not  do 
away  with  the  distinctions  of  race.  We  could 
not  legislate  for  the  disappearance  of  the  French 
Canadians  from  American  soil,  but  British 
and  French  Canadians  alike  could  appreciate 
and  understand  their  position  relative  to  each 
other.  They  were  placed  like  great  families 
beside  each  other,  and  their  contact  produced 
a  healthy  spirit  of  emulation.  It  was  a  benefit 
rather  than  otherwise  that  we  had  a  diversity 
of  races.  Of  course,  the  difficulty,  it  would  be 
said,  would  be  to  deal  fairly  by  the  minority. 
In  Upper  Canada  the  Catholics  would  find 
themselves  in  a  minority ;  in  Lower  Canada 
the  Protestants  would  be  in  a  minority,  while 
the  Lower  Provinces  were  divided.  Under 
such  circumstances,  would  any  one  pretend 
that  either  the  local  or  general  governments 
would  sanction  any  injustice.  What  would  be 
the  consequence,  even  supposing  any  such  thing 
were  attempted  by  any  one  of  the  local  govern- 
ments ?  It  would  be  censured  everywhere. 
Whether  it  came  from  Upper  Canada  or  from 
Lower  Canada,  any  attempt  to  deprive  the 
minority  of  their  rights  would  be  at  once 
thwartt^d.  Under  the  Federation  system,  grant- 
ing to  the  control  of  the  General  (jovonnuent 
these  large  (|uestions  of  general  interest  in 
which  the  diflVirenccs  of  race  or  religion  had 
no  place,  it  could  not  bo  pretended  that  the 
rights  of  eitlior  race  or  religion  could  be 
invaded  at  all.  We  were  to  huve  a  (Jcu- 
eral  Parliament  to  deal  with  the  matters 
of  defence,  tariff,  excise,  public  works,  and 
theiie  matteris  abbctrbed  all  individual  interest. 
Now,  he  would  a«k  tlmse  self-styled  national 
iita  who  accuied  him  of  bart^riug  fifty-eight 


61 


counties  in  Lower  Canada  to  John  Bull,  and 
his  honorable  colleague  beside  him  (Hon.  Mr. 
Brown) — he  would  ask  them,  under  what 
supposition  could  they  think  it  possible  for 
any  injustice  to  be  done  to  the  French  Canar 
dians  by  the  General  Government  ?  (Hear, 
hear.)  He  came  now  to  the  subject  of  Local 
Governments.  We  could  easily  understand 
how  a  feeling  against  the  Federation  project 
was  raised  in  the  minds  of  a  few  of  the  British 
residents  of  Lower  Canada  by  feara  of  such 
difficulties  as  those  which  occurred  in  the  days 
of  Mr.  Papineau,  relative  to  the  passing  of 
laws  relating  to  commercial  matters.  (Hear, 
hear.)  These  difficulties  had  been  of  a 
very  inconvenient  nature,  Mr.  Papineau  not 
being  a  commercial  man,  and  not  understand- 
ing the  importance  of  these  measures.  He 
considered  Mr.  Papineau  was  right  in  the 
struggle  he  maintained  against  the  oligarchy 
at  that  time  in  power  ;  but  he  had  never  ap- 
proved of  the  course  he  took  with  reference  to 
commercial  matters,  and  in  opposition  to  mea- 
sures for  the  improvement  of  the  country. 
But  this  precedent  could  not  be  urged  as  an 
objection  to  Federation,  inasmuch  as  it 
would  be  for  the  General  Government  to  deal 
with  our  commercial  matters.  There  could 
be  no  reason  for  well-grounded  fear  that  the 
minority  could  be  made  to  suffer  by  means  of 
any  laws  affecting  the  rights  of  property.  If 
any  such  enactments  were  passed,  they  would 
fall  upon  the  whole  community.  But  even 
supposing  such  a  thing  did  occur,  there  was  a 
remedy  provided  under  the  proposed  Constitu- 
tion. The  magnitude  of  the  scheme  now  sub- 
mitted was,  perhaps,  the  reason  why  those  who 
had  not  made  themselves  conversant  with  the 
question  felt  some  apprehension  in  contem- 
plating it ;  but,  when  we  came  to  discuss  it 
clause  by  clause,  he  would  be  ready  to  state 
that  no  interest  would  be  harmed  in  any  way 
if  Federation  took  place.  It  was  true  that  oj>- 
position  was  being  offered  in  Montreal,  by  Mr. 
John  Dougall,  of  the  Witiiess.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And,  while  referring  to  the  opponents 
of  Federation,  he  could  not  help  adverting  to 
the  strange  manner  in  which  extremes  met 
and  worked  in  unison  to  oppose  Federation. 
(Laughter.)  For  instance,  we  had  the  party 
who  formerly  composed  what  might  be  styled 
Mr.  Papineau's  Tail — the  extreme  democratic 
party — joined  with  Mr.  Dougall's  Tail. 
(Hear,  hear,  cheers,  and  laughter.) 

Mr.  PERRAULT— And'^memberi  of  the 
clergy  oppose  it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER  said  the  honorable 
gentleman  was  mistak«n.     Th«  clergy   wer«  ( 


for  it.  But  the  honorable  gentleman  would 
have  an  opportunity  of  speaking  afterwards. 
This  scheme,  he  repeated,  met  with  the  ap- 
proval of  all  moderate  men.  The  extreme 
men,  the  socialists,  democrats  and  annexation- 
ists were  opposed  to  it.  The  French  Cana- 
dian opponents  of  the  project  were,  it  ap- 
peared, afraid  that  their  religious  rights  would 
suffer  under  the  new  arrangement.  Fancy 
the  celebrated  Tnstitut  Canadien,  of  Mont- 
real, under  the  lead  of  citizen  Blanchet, 
taking  religion  under  their  protection! 
(Laughter.)  Mr.  DoUGALL  loudly  pro- 
claimed that  the  British  Protestant  minority 
would  be  entirely  placed  at  the  mercy  of 
the  French  Canadians.  He  (Hon.  Mr.  Car- 
tier)  thought  the  arguments  of  the  young 
French  gentlemen  belonging  to  the  national 
democratic  party  who  cried  out  that  their  re- 
ligion and  nationality  would  be  destroyed, 
ought  in  all  reason  to  be  sufficient  to  satisfy 
the  scruples  and  calm  the  fears  of  Mr.  Dou- 
gall. The  True  Witness,  which  ATas  also  one 
of  the  enemies  of  the  scheme,  said  that  if  it 
were  adopted  the  French  Canadians  were 
doomed ;  while  his  brother  in  violence,  the 
Witness,  said  that  the  Protestants  were  doomed. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  At  a  meeting  re- 
cently held  in  Montreal  on  the  subject,  he  (Hon. 
Mr.  Cartier)  observed  that  Mr.  Cherrier 
had  enrolled  himself  among  the  enemies  of  the 
project.  Well,  this  fine,  qaiet,  old  gentleman 
announced  that  he  had  come  out  of  his  politi- 
cal retirement  for  the  purpose  of  opposing  Fe- 
deration. All  he  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartier)  could  say 
was  that  he  never  knew  Mr.  CHERaiER  was  a 
strong  politician.  However,  it  appeared  that 
he  had  come  out  once  more  on  the  political 
stage  for  the  purpose  of  opposing  this  villain- 
ous scheme,  which  was  intended  to  destroy  the 
nationalitv  and  religion  of  the  French  Cana- 
dians — all  brought  about  by  that  confounded 
Cartier  !  ( Laughter  and  cheers.)  Allusion 
had  been  made  to  the  opinion  of  the  clergy. 
Well,  he  would  say  that  the  opinion  of  the 
clergy  was  for  Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Those  who  were  high  in  authority,  as  well  as 
those  who  occupied  more  humbU;  positions, 
were  in  fovor  of  Federation,  not  only  because 
they  saw  in  it  so  much  security  for  all  they 
held  dear,  but  because  it  was  jtist  to  their 
Protestant  fellow-subjects  as  well,  because  they 
were  opposed  to  political  bickering  and  strife. 
This  opposition  to  a  state  of  political  dissen- 
sion and  trouble  was  the  general  feelins  of  the 
clergy,  and  because  they  saw  in  Coafederatiou 
a  solution  of  those  difficulties  which  had  existr 
•d  for  som«  time,  due  regard  being  had  to  just 


62 


rights,  they  were  favorable  to  the  project. — 
The  fact,  however,  was  that  when  we  saw  such 
extreme  opponents  as  Mr.  Clerk,  of  the  True 
Witness,  Mr.  Dougall,  of  the  Witness,  and 
the  young  gentlemen  of  the  Institut  Canadien 
combined  to  resist  Confederation,  because  each 
party  argued  it  would  produce  the  most  widely 
diflPerent  results — we  might  look  upon  this 
fact,  he  repeated,  as  one  of  the  strongest  argu- 
ments in  favor  of  Confederation.  (Hear.) 
We  had,  on  the  other  hand,  all  the  moderate 
men,  all  that  was  respectable  and  intelligent, 
including  the  clergy,  favorable  to  Federation. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  oh,  oh.)  He  did  not,  of 
course,  mean  to  say  that  there  were  not  re- 
spectable opponents  to  the  project — what  he 
did  mean,  however,  was  that  it  met  general 
approval  from  the  classes  referred  to.  He 
was  opposed,  he  might  as  well  state  most 
distinctly,  to  the  democratic  system  which 
obtained  in  the  United  States.  In  this  coun- 
try of  British  North  America  we  should  have 
a  distinct  form  of  government,  the  character- 
istic of  which  would  be  to  possess  the  monar- 
chical element.  When  we  had  Confederation 
secured,  there  was  not  the  least  doubt  but 
that  our  Government  would  be  more  respect- 
able— that  it  would  have  more  prestige,  and 
command  more  respect  from  our  neighbours. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  great  want  under  the 
American  form — the  point  which  they  all 
admitted  formed  the  great  defect — was  the 
absence  of  some  respectable  executive  element. 
How  was  the  head  of  the  United  States  Gov- 
ernment chosen  ?  Candidates  came  forward, 
and  of  course  each  one  was  abused  and  villified 
as  corrupt,  ignorant,  incapable  and  unworthy 
by  the  opposite  party.  One  of  them  attained 
the  presidential  chair  ;  but  even  while  in  that 
position  he  was  not  respected  by  those  who 
had  opposed  his  election,  and  who  tried  to 
make  him  appear  the  most  corrupt  and  con- 
temptible being  in  creation.  Such  a  system 
could  not  produce  an  executive  head  who  would 
command  respect.  Under  the  British  system, 
ministers  might  be  abused  and  assailed  ;  but 
that  abuse  never  reached  the  Sovereign. 
Whether  we  were  made  a  kingdom  or  a  vice- 
royalty — whatever  name  or  grade  was  assigned 
to  us — we  would  undoubtedly  li.ivo  addition, tl 
prestige.  He  would  now  conclude  his  remarks 
by  asking  honorable  gentlemen  to  consider 
well  this  scheme.  It  was  his  hope,  his  cher- 
ished hope,  that  it  would  be  adopted  by  the 
House.  The  time  \i:\»  opportune,  as  his  liou- 
oiablc  colleague  (Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD)had 
BO  ably  stated  last  evening ;  the  opportunity 
might  n<;ver  offer  itself  again  in  such  a  i'acile 


and  propitious  manner.  We  knew  we  had,  in 
all  our  proceedings,  the  approbation  of  the 
Imperial  Government.  So  if  these  resolutions 
were  adopted  by  Canada,  as  he  had  no  doubt 
they  would,  and  by  the  other  Colonial  Legis- 
latures, the  Imperial  (jrovemment  would  be 
called  upon  to  pass  a  measure  which  would 
have  for  its  effect  to  give  a  strong  central  or 
general  government  and  local  governments, 
which  would  at  once  secure  and  guard  the 
persons,  the  properties  and  the  c\.\\\  and  reli- 
gious rights  belonging  to  the  population  of 
each  section.     (Loud  cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT  said,— Mr.  Speaker,  I 
trust  the  House  will,  on  this  occasion,  extend 
to  me  the  indulgence  with  which  I  have  often 
previously  been  flavored  when  I  have  ad- 
dressed it  on  subjects  relating  to  the  commer- 
cial and  financial  interests  of  this  province ; 
for  I  am  now  required  to  follow  the  very  able 
and  eloquent  speeches  of  the  two  Attorneys 
General,  East  and  West,  who  have  discussed, 
as  none  were  more  able  than  those  gentlemen 
to  discuss,  the  most  important  political  and 
philosophical  questions  which  are  involved  \\\ 
the  Confederation  of  the  British  North  Amei- 
ican  colonies ;  and  the  material  interests  of 
the  country  upon  which  it  is  my  province  this 
night  to  dwell,  though  unquestionably  those 
which  are  intended  to  be  served  through  tha 
political  alterations  we  have  to  consider,  are, 
nevertheless,  likely  to  prove  tedious  to  the 
House.  Explanations  respectinsc  them  are, 
however,  imperatively  called  for  when  we  are 
considering  the  question  now  at  issue.  (Hear. ) 
There  is  one  advantage  which  I  feel  that  [ 
enjoy  on  this  occasion,  and  it  is  that  this 
House  is  not  called  upon,  in  dealing  with  the 
commercial  and  financial  interests  involved  in 
the  proposed  changes,  to  consider  the  form 
or  mode  of  government  by  which  such  inter- 
ests are  to  be  promoted.  It  makes  little  differ- 
ence to  the  consideration  of  tliis  branch  of 
the  subject  whether  the  Constitution  of  the 
new  Government  be  th.'it  of  a  Ligislative  or 
Federal  Union — the  points  with  which  I  am 
about  to  deal,  ure  those  which  concern  the 
public  at  large,  and  bear  no  reference  to  what 
may  be  the  creed,  nationality  or  language  of 
portions  ol"  the  people.  The  sulijects  on 
which  I  propose  to  address  the  House  are 
those  connected  with  the  trade,  resources 
and  financial  condition  of  the  several  prov- 
inces of  British  North  America,  imd  certjiin 
(piestions  present  themselves  for  decision, 
upon  a  satisfactory  ana. .or  to  which  the 
determination  of  the  House  upon  the  whole 
plan   that    ii  submitted    should    depend,    I 


63 


will   divide    my  remarks    into    five    distiuct 
heads : — 

First. — Do  the  commercial  and  material 
interests  of  the  several  provinces  point  to 
their  union  as  an  advantageous  measure  ? 

Secondly. — Is  their  financial  condition  such 
as  to  permit  of  this  union  being  carried  into 
practical  etFect  at  this  moment,  with  justice 
to  them  all? 

Thirdly. — Are  the  measures  proposed  in 
the  resolutions  before  the  House  fair  to  each 
and  to  all  ? 

Fourthly. — Is  there  a  reasonable  prospect 
that  the  machinery  through  which  these  in- 
terests are  proposed  to  be  governed,  will  work 
smoothly  and  harmoniously  ? 

Lastly.— Does  the  proposed  system  for  the 
Government  of  the  United  Provinces  appear 
likely  to  prove  so  expensive  as  to  render  it  im- 
possible for  the  people  of  Canada  to  consent 
to  it? 

In  dealing  with  the  first  question,  whether 
the  material  interests  of  the  provinces  wi  1  be 
promoted  by  their  union,  it  may  be  well  for 
me  to  ofier  to  the  House  some  few  remarks 
as  to  the  resources  of  British  North  America, 
Possessing  as  we  do,  in  the  far  western  pavt  of 
Canada,  perhaps  the  most  fertile  wheat-growing 
tracts  on  this  continent, — in  central  and  eastern 
Canada  facilities  for  manufacturing  such  as 
cannot  anywhere  be  surpassed, —  and  in  the 
eastern  or  Maritime  Provinces  an  abundance 
of  that  most  useful  of  all  minerals,  coal,  as 
well  as  the   most  magnificent  and  valuable 
fisheries  in  the  world  ;  extending  as  this  coun- 
try does  for  two  thousand  miles,  traversed  by 
the  finest  navigable  river   in  the   world,  we 
may  well    look   forward  to  our  future   with 
hopeful  anticipation  of  seeing  the  realization, 
not  merely  of  what  we  have  hitherto  thought 
would  be  the  commerce  of  Canada,  great  as 
that  might  become,  but  to  the  possession  of 
Atlantic  ports,  which  we  shall  help  to  build  to 
a  position  equal  to  th^t  of  the  chief  cities  of 
the  American  Union.   (Hear.)     But  it  is  not 
so  much  by  the  extent  of  a  country  that  its 
power  and  real  greatness  are  to  be  estimated, 
as  by  its  containing  within  itself  the  elements 
of  difl'erent  interests,  for  it  is  in  the  diversity 
of  employment  that  security  is  found  against 
those  sad  reverses  to  which  every  country,  de- 
pending mainly  on  one   branch  of  industry, 
must  always  be  liable.     (^Hear.)     A  most  re- 
markable illustration  of  this  has  recently  oc- 
curred in  our  own  Mother  Country.     No  one 
would  have  ventured  to  say,  a  few  years  ago, 
that  England  could   have   lost   its  immense 
cotton  supply  without  having  its  system  of 


commercial    industry    almost    entirely  over- 
thrown, and  having  it.s  people  sunk  into  the 
deepest  misery.    Yet  we  have  seen,  within  the 
last  few  years,  the  cotton  supply  cut  ofi".     We 
have  seen,  it  is  true,  a  considerable  portion  of  the 
people  reduced  to  great  want,  but,  at  the  same 
time,  the  wonderful  diversity  of  employment 
which  exists  in  the  country  opened  new  chan- 
nels for  the  employment  of  the  distressed  oper- 
atives, and  though  there  was  great  pressure 
for  a  time,  it  was  only  temporary  in  its  opera- 
tions ;  and  at  this  moment,  after  a  short  pause, 
we  see  the  industry  of  England  greater  than 
it  was  at  the  beginning  of  the  American  war. 
(Hear.)     We  may  therefore  rejoice  that,  in 
the  proposed   Union  of  the   British   North 
American  Provinces,  we  shall  obtain  some  se- 
curity against  those  providential  reverses  to 
which,  as  long  as  we  are  dependent  on  one 
branch  of  industry  as  a  purely  agricultural 
country,   we   must    always  remain    exposed. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  resources  of  these  great 
colonies,  and  the  extent  to  which  the  industry 
and  intelligence  of  their  inhabitants  have  de- 
veloped them,  are  most  significantly  shewn  in 
the  Trade  and  Navigation  Tables,  which  are 
in  the  possession  of  the  public.     I  am  afraid 
to  weary  the  House  by  going  at  any  length 
into  statements  relating  to  them,  but  I  feel 
that  in  order  to  place  the  question  of  union 
fairly  before  the  House  and  the  country,  I  am 
called  upon  to  glance,  however  briefly,  at  the 
position  in  which  the  trade  and  tonn- ge  of 
each  of  the  British  North  American  Provinces 
at  the  present  moment  stands.     The  returns 
of  the  trade  of  Canada  in  18G3,  taking  exports 
and  imports  conjointly,  shew  an  aggregate  of 
$87,795,000.     Taking  the  census   of  1861, 
this  trade  represents    thirty-five    dollars   per 
head  of  the  population.      The  value  of  the 
import  and  export  trade  of  New  Brunswick, 
for    the    sar.e    year,    reaches    §16,729,680, 
amounting  to  sixty-six  dollars  per  head  of  its 
population.      The  aggregate  trade  of  Nova 
Scotia  for  the  same  period,  amounted  to  $18- 
622,359,  or  fifty-six  doUiirs  per  head   of  its 
people.     And  in  the  case  of  Prince  Edward 
Island,  the  import  and  export  trade  amounted 
to  $3,055,568,  representing  thirty-seven  dol- 
lars per  head  of  the  population  of  that  colony. 
The  value  of  the  total  trade  of  Newfoundland 
was  $11,2-15,032,  or   eighty-six    dollars   per 
head.     The  whole  of  these  figures  represent 
an  aggregate  trade  of  all  the  provinces  amount- 
ing to  $137,447,567.      Notwithstanding  the 
large  population  and  the  very  large  amount 
represented  by  the  trade  of  Canada,  when  it 
is  divided  per  head  it  falls  considerably  short 


64 


of  the  trade  of  New  Brunswick  and  Nora  Sco- 
tia, being  a  little  more  than  half  pci'  head  of 
the  former,  and  not  more  than  two-thirds  of 
that  of  Nova  Scotia.  All  the  statistics  to  which 
I  have  had  access  show  that  the  commercial 
and  financial  position  of  our  sister  colonies  is 
such  as  to  enable  them  creditably  to  seek  an 
alliance  with  any  country  on  earth ;  and  it 
cannot  be  said  that,  in  seeking  or  consenting 
to  an  alliance  with  Canada,  they  have  any 
local,  or  sectional,  or  selfish. object  in  view. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Passing  from  trad^,  I  will 
turn  to  another  subject  —  the  ship  building 
and  tonnage  of  those  colonies —  and  will  take 
the  returns  of  1863.  In  that  year,  the  num- 
be  of  ships  built  in  all  those  colonies  was  no 
less  than  645,  with  a  tonnage  amounting  to 
219,763  tons.  This  statement  of  the  enor- 
mous amount  of  tonnage  built  in  one  year  is 
as  erood  evidence  as  can  be  ofiered  of  the  fa- 
cilities  we  possess  for  becoming  an  important 
maritime  power.  The  industry  represented 
by  those  figures  shows  an  export  value  of 
nearly  nine  million  dollars !  The  sea-going 
tonnage  of  Canada,  including  that  of  the  in- 
land lakes,  amounts  to  about  nine  million  tons, 
a  great  portion  of  which,  however,  represents 
the  tonnage  of  vessels  performing  coasting 
service,  many  of  which  frequently  clear  and 
arrive  in  the  course  of  one  day.  It  is  gratifying 
to  know  that  the  trade  between  Canada  and 
the  States  on  the  other  side  of  the  lakes  is 
of  a  nature  to  give  employment  to  a  large 
portion  of  this  lake  tonnage  —  amounting 
to  6,907,000  tons  —  but  it  cannot  be  classed 
in  the  same  category  as  the  tonnage  arriving 
at  Quebec  and  Montreal,  which  in  most  cases 
can  make  only  two  or  three  trips  per  an- 
num. The  sea-going  tonnage  of  Canada 
amounted  to  2,133,000  tons ;  of  New  Bruns- 
wick, 1,386,000  ;  of  Nova  Scotia,  1,432,000 
tons.  Consequently  the  amount  of  sea-going 
tonnage,  subject  only  to  a  small  deduction, 
was  actually  about  five  million  tons,  of  which 
about  2,133,000  was  that  of  vessels  trading 
between  the  St.  Lawrence  and  foreign  ports. 
In  making  this  statement  it  is  due  to  the 
House  that  it  should  be  made  aware  that 
some  portion  of  this  trade  will  not  be  repre- 
sented after  the  contemplated  union  has  taken 
place.  At  present,  the  internal  commcroo 
between  these  colonies  appears  in  the  returns 
of  each  as  imports  and  exj)orts,  but  I  should 
be  glad  if  I  were  able  to  make  on  this  account 
a  largo  deduction  from  the  figures  I  hare 
given.  It  is  matter  for  regret  on  the  part  of 
all  of  us  that  the  trade  between  these  colo- 
nies— subject  all  to  th»  same  Sovereijpi,  con- 


nected with  the  same  empire — haa  been   so 
small.     Intercolonial  trade  haa  been,  indeed, 
of  the  most  insignificant  character  ;  we  have 
looked  far  more  to  our  commercial   relations 
with    the    neighbouring — though    a    foreign 
country, — than  to  the  interchange  of  our  own 
products,  which  would  have  retained  the  bene- 
fits  of  our   trade   within  ourselves  ;    hostile 
tariffs  have  interfered  with  the  free  interchange 
of  the  products  of  the  labor  of  all  the  colonies, 
and  one  of  the  greatest  and  most   immediate 
benefits  to  be  derived  from  their  union,  will 
spring  from  the  breaking  down  of  these  bar- 
riers and  the  opening  up  of  the  markets  of  all 
the  provinces  to  the   different  industries  of 
each.     (Hear,  hear."*     In  this  manner  we  may 
hope  to  supply   Newfoundland  and  the  great 
fishing  districts  of  the  Gulf,  with  the  agricul- 
tural   productions   of    Western  Canada ;  we 
may  hope   to   obtain  from  Nova  Scotia  our 
supply  of  coal ;  and  the  manufacturing  indus- 
try of  Lower  Canada  may  hope  to  find  more 
extensive  outlets  in  supplying  many  of  those 
articles  which  are  now  purchased  in  foreign 
markets.  For  instance  Newfoundland  produces 
scarcely  anything  by  agriculture,  manufactures 
hardly  an  article  of  clothing,  and  a  considerable 
trade  may  thus  be  expected  to    arise  ;  while, 
instead   of  having  payments   made,    as  they 
are  now,  through  Lombard  street,   they  will 
be  made  through  our  own  bankers  in  Montreal 
and  elsewhere.     If  we  require  to  find  an  ex- 
ample of  the  benefits  of  free  commercial  in- 
tercourse, we  need  not  look  beyond  the  efiects 
that  have  followed  from  the  working  of  the 
Reciprocity  Treaty  with  the  United  States.  In 
one  short  year  from  the  time  when  that  treaty 
came  into  operation,  our  trade  in  the  natural 
productions  of  the  two  countries  swelled  from 
less  than  $2,000,000  to  upwards  of  $20,000,000 
per  annum,  and  now,  when  we  are  threatened 
with  an  interruption  of  that  trade — when  we 
have  reason  to  fear    that  the   action    of  the 
United  States  will  prove  hostile  to  the  con- 
tinuance of   free  commercial   relations  with 
this  country — when  we  know  that  the   con- 
sideration of  this  question  is  not  grounded  on 
just  views  of  the  material   advantages  result- 
ing to  each  country — but   that  the  irritation 
connected  with   political   events    exercises   a 
predominant    intiuence    over    the    minds   of 
American  statesmen,    it  is   the  duty  of  the 
House  to  provide,  if  possible,  other  outlets  for 
our  productions.     If  wo  have  reason   to  fear 
that  one  door  is  about   to  be  closed   to  our 
trade,  it  is  the  duty  of  the  House  to  endeavor 
to  open  another  ;  to  provide  against  a  coming 
•Til  of  tho  kind  ftared  by  timely  «xpaasiou  iu 


65 


another  direction ;  to  seek  by  free  trade  with 
our  own  fellow-colonists  for  a  continued  and 
uninterrupted  commerce  which  will  not  be 
liable  to  be  disturbed  at  the  capricious  will  of 
any  foreign  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  On 
this  ground,  therefore,  we  may  well  come  to 
the  conclusion  that  the  union  between  these 
colonies  is  demanded  alike  on  account  of  their 
extensive  resources,  and  because  of  the 
peculiar  position  in  which  they  stand  relatively 
to  each  other,  to  Great  Britain,  and  to  the 
United  States.  All  these  are  questions  which 
fall  within  the  province  of  the  General  Gov- 
ernment, as  proposed  in  the  resolutions  before 
the  House,  and  whatever  may  be  the  doubts 
and  fears  of  any  one  with  respect  to  the  de- 
tails of  the  organization  by  which  it  is  pro- 
posed to  work  the  new  system  of  Confedera- 
ation,  no  one  can  doubt  that  the  great  inter- 
ests of  trade  and  commerce  will  be  best  pro- 
moted and  developed  by  being  entrusted  to 
one  central  power,  which  will  wield  them  in 
the  common  interest.  (Hear,  hear.) 

I  now  come,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  the  consid- 
eration of  the  second,  and  perhaps  I  may  say 
the  third  division  of  my  subject  also — wheth- 
er the  material  condition  of  these  provinces 
is  such  as  to  make  the  union  practicable,  and 
whether  the  details  of  the  measures  proposed 
are  equitable  to  each  and  to  all.  In  consid- 
ering this  point,  it  is  necessary  for  us  first  to 
review  the  liabilities  of  each  province,  the 
reasons  why  they  were  incurred,  the  objects 
which  have  been  sought.  In  doing  so,  the 
House  wUl  not  fail  to  remark  that  the  same 
policy  has  animated  the  legislatures  of  all  the 
provinces,  or  perhaps  I  should  speak  more 
exactly  in  saying  those  of  Canada,  New  Bruns- 
wick and  Nova  Scotia.  The  public  debt  of 
all  these  provinces  has,  with  some  slight 
exceptions,  been  incurred  for  public  improve- 
ments, intended  to  develope  the  resources  of 
the  country,  to  attract  immigration  and  wealth 
to  their  respective  shores,  to  cheapen  the 
means  whereby  the  products  of  their  farms 
were  to  be  taken  to  market,  and  to  reduce  the 
cost  of  freight  of  articles  which  enter  largely 
into  the  consumption  of  their  inhabitants. 
Nor  will  any  one  fail  to  observe  the  intimate 
connection  which  all  these  public  works  have 
with  each  other — a  connection  which  singu- 
larly illustrates  the  natural  union  which  exists 
between  these  several  provinces.  If  we  con- 
sider the  public  improvements  of  Canada,  her 
great  canals  intended  to  bring  the  trade  of  the 
vast  countries  bordering  on  the  lakes  down  to 
the  Gulf  of  St.  Lawrence  ;  if  we  look  at  the 
railway  system  forced  upon  us  in  our  compe- 
10 


tition  with  American  channels  of  trade,  stretch- 
ing from  the  extreme  west  to  the  extreme  east 
of  the  pro\4nce  ;    and  if  we  then  look  at  the 
public  works  that  have   been  undertaken  in 
Nova  Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  we  find  that, 
practically,  they  form  parts  of  one  great  whole. 
It  is  through  the  St.  Lawrence  that  the  people 
of  the  Lower  Provinces  will  send  their  fish,  oils 
and  other  exports  to  the  west,  and  it  is  through 
our  canals   and  river   that  they  will  import 
the  necessaries  they  require  from  the  west. 
Through  these  canals  and  the  river  St.  Law- 
rence, and  along  the  railway  systems  of  all  the 
provinces,  when  hereafter  connected,  a  great 
trade  will  flow  in  one  uninterrupted   stream, 
enriching  in  its  course  not  only  the  cities  of 
Canada,  but  also  swelling  the  tide  of  a  new 
commerce   we   may   hope  to  see   called   into 
being  in  the  open  Atlantic  ports  of  St.  John 
and  Halifax.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  will  now  pro- 
ceed,  sir,  briefly  to  lay  before  the  House  a 
statement  of  the  present  engagements  of  the 
several  provinces,  beginning  with  Canada.     I 
find  that  our  whole  debt,  exclusive  of  the 
Common  School  Fund,  which  does  not  form  a 
portion  of  our  engagements  relatively  to  the 
Lower  Provinces,    amounts  to  $67,263,995. 
The  debt  of  Nova  Scotia  is  $4,858,547,  and 
that  of  New  Brunswick  §5,702,991 ;  and  I 
may  notice,   with  reference   to  the  debts  of 
Nova  Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  that  in  the 
case  of  Nova  Scotia  a  portion  of  their  liabili- 
ties, to  the  amount  of  nearly  half  a  million  of 
dollars,  consists  of  treasury  notes,  while  the 
pohcy  has  been  pursued  both  in  that  province 
and  in  New  Brunswick  of  retaining  in  the 
hands  of  the  Government  the  Savings  Bank 
deposits  of  the  people,  which  form,  therefore, 
a  part  of  the  liabilities  I  have  named  to  the 
extent  of  $1,167,000,     It  must,  therefore,  be 
observed  that  the  rate  of  interest  on  the  debts 
of  these    two   colonies  is  not,   on  the   whole 
amount,  higher  than  that  which  the  bulk  of 
the  Canadian  debt  now  bears.     Newfoundland 
has  only  incurred   liabilities  to  the  extent  of 
$946,000,  bearing  interest  at  five  per  cent., 
while  Prince  Edward  Island  owes  $240,673. 
The  total  liabilities  of  those   provinces  are, 
therefore,  $11,748,211,  against  the  interest  on 
which  may  be  placed  the  net  revenues  of  the 
railways  which  are  the  property  of  those  pro- 
vinces,  and  wliich  produced  last  year  a  net 
amount  of  about  $100,000.     In   addition  to 
the  existing  liabilities  of  Nova  Scotia  and  New 
Brunswick,  there  are  certain  further  engage- 
ments they  have  incurred  for  the  extension  of 
their  railway  system  requiring  future  provision 
to  the  extent,  in  tho  case  of  Nova  Scotia,  (rf 


66 


$3,000,000,  and  in  that  of  New  Brunswick  of 
§1,300,000.  It  must  be  evident  to  the  House 
that,  in  entering  into  such  a  partnership  as  is 
proposed,  some  common  basis  must  be  arrived 
at  on  which  each  province  nmst  enter  into  the 
Confederation.  Taking-  all  the  engagements, 
present  and  future,  of  Nova  Scotia  and  New 
Brunswick,  it  was  found  that,  relatively  to 
their  populations,  they  amounted  to  about  $25 
per  head,  and  this  amount,  as  applied  to 
Canada,  would  entitle  us  to  enter  the  union 
with  a  debt  of  $02,500,000.  Some  difficulty 
might  have  occurred  in  reducing  our  debt  to 
this  amount  had  it  not  been  apparent,  on 
examination,  that  a  considei-able  portion  of  it 
was  connected  with  local  advances,  such  as  the 
1S\  unicipal  Loan  Kund,  which  does  not  properly 
belong  to  the  same  category  as  debt  contracted 
in  connection  with  our  system  of  piiblic  im- 
provements, and  the  management  of  which  is 
intended  to  be  confided  to  the  General  Gov- 
ernment, but  rather  partakes  of  a  local  charac- 
ter, and  should  more  properly  be  left  in  the 
hands  of  the  local  legislatures.  It  will 
therefore  be  found  provided  in  the  resolutions, 
that  in  assuming  for  itself,  apart  from  the 
General  Government,  the  surplus  of  debt  of 
about  five  millions  ($5,000,000),  the  Province 
of  Canada  became  entitled  to  withdraw  from 
the  <i,eneral  assets  all  those  items  which  were 
of  a  local  character,  and  for  which  a  portion 
of  its  debt  had  been  incurred.  Had  not  this 
means  been  adopted,  it  would  have  been  neces- 
sary to  permit  all  the  Lower  Provinces  to 
increase  their  obligations  beyond  those  for 
which  their  legislatures  have  hitherto  had  to 
provide,  and  bring  in  larger  debts  to  the  Con- 
federation than  they  will  now  do,  and  a  most 
unnecessary  and  prodigal  expenditure  of  public 
money  would  have  been  the  consequence.  It 
was  wise,  then,  to  confine  the  liabilities  of  the 
General  Government  simply  to  those  debts 
which  had  been  incurnsd  for  purposes  of 
general  improvement,  and  to  provide  locally, 
in  this  country,  for  tho  iissumpti(m  of  the  sur- 
plus, together  with  the  assets  which  had  been 
created  by  it.    « 

Hon.  Mil.  DOKION— Do  the  $07,203,005, 
stated  as  the  debt  of  Canada,  include  the  ori- 
ginal siugniorial  indemnity  given  to  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada,  under  the  Act  of  1854  ? 

Hon.  Mn.  GALT — Yeaj  tliat  amount  does 
inc.une  the  indemnity,  and  among  the  iirrangc- 
ments  cuutcmplated  by  the  Government,  as- 
suming that  Confederation  does  take  place, 
they  will  submit,  for  the  consideration  of  tliis 
House,  a  project  fi»r  the  nssumption  by  Lower 
Ciinada  of  tho  eoiijuioriul  iudemuity  provided 


by  the  Act  of  1859,  whereby  it  will  be  ren- 
dered unnecessary  to  give  an  equivalent  indem- 
nity to  Upper  Canada,  thus  saving  upwards  of 
three  millions  of  dollars.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
would  desire  again,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  refer  to 
the  position  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  arid  to 
call  the  attention  of  the  House  to  the  fact 
that  both  in  the  case  of  Newfoundland  and  in 
that  of  Prince  Edward  Island,  their  liabilities 
are  very  nmch  less  in  proportion  to  the  popu- 
lation than  those  of  the  three  larger  provinces ; 
and  in  order  to  permit  of  their  entering  into 
the  union  upon  fair  terms,  it  was  necessary  to 
provide  that  they  should  be  allowed  to  receive 
from  the  general  exchequer  a  sum  equal  to  the 
inter>  st  upon  the  amount  of  debt  which  they 
had  not  been  obliged  to  contract.  By  this  means 
provision  was  in  fact  made  for  the  mainten- 
ance of  their  local  governments,  while  at  the 
same  time  a  cause  of  future  complaint  was  re- 
moved. (Hear,  hear.)  It  now  becomes  my 
duty  to  submit  to  the  House  a  statement  of 
the  resources  which  the  several  provinces  pro- 
pose to  bring  into  the  common  stock,  and  I 
may  add  that  for  the  purpose  of  this  statement 
being  more  readily  verified,  the  financial  re- 
turns of  1803  have  been  taken  as  the  standard. 
From  these  returns  it  would  appeiir  that  the 
income  and  expenditure  of  the  several  pro- 
vinces stood  in  that  year  as  follows:  Nova 
Scotia,  with  a  population  of  338,857,  had  au 
income  of  $1,185,629,  her  outlay  being  $1,- 
072,274  ;  New  Brunswick,  with  a  population 
of  252,047,  had  an  income  of  $894,830,  and 
an  outlay  of  $884,013;  Newlbundland,  with  a 
population  of  130,000,  had  an  income  of 
$480,000,  Uie  outlay  being  $479,420  ;  Prince 
Edward  Island,  with  a  population  of  80,000, 
had  an  income  of  $197,384,  the  outlay  being 
$171,718.  The  total  revenue  of  all  these 
colonies  amounted  to  $2,763,004,  and  the 
total  expenditure  to  $2,608,025 — the  united 
surplus  over  expenditure  for  1803  being 
$154,979.  It  will  be  observed  that  as  regards 
these  provinces  their  income  and  expeiuiitur« 
are  such  that  thoy  will  enter  the  Conf'oder- 
ation  with  a  financial  position  in  no  respect 
inferior  to  that  of  Canada.  If  an  objection 
were  made  with  respect  to  any  province  in 
regard  to  its  financijJ  position,  it  would  be 
agaiiist  Canada.  The  Lower  Provinces  have 
been  and  are  now  in  a  position  to  meet,  from 
their  taxation,  all  their  expenses,  and  cainiot 
be  regarded  as  bringing  any  burthen  to  liie 
people  of  Canada.  It  is  not  necessary  fiu-  me 
to  say  anything  in  referenoe  to  tho  financial 
position  oi'  Canada  in  1803,  but  it  jiiust  be 
gratifying  to  the  Uoum  to  know  that  d»- 


67 


ficiency  which  unfortunately  existed  during 
that  year  was  removed  in  1864,  and  that, 
therefore,  we  are  not  obliged  now  to  propose 
to  enter  the  Confederation  in  an  inferior  po- 
sition, in  this  respect,  to  that  of  our  sister 
colonies.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  revenues  of  each 
of  these  provinces  are,  as  the  House  is  well 
aware,  collected  under  different  systems  of  tax- 
ation, suited  to  the  local  industry  and  the 
wants  of  their  several  populations.  It  is,  there- 
fore, manifest  that  one  of  the  first  duties  of 
the  General  Legislature  will  be  to  consider  the 
modes  by  which  the  burden  of  taxation  can  be 
most  easily  borne  by  the  industry  of  the  whole 
country,  and  to  assimilate  the  several  sources 
of  revenue  which  are  now  in  existence  in  such 
manner  as  will  least  interfere  with  the  profit- 
able exercise  of  the  industry  of  the  people.  It 
would  be  entirely  out  of  place  for  me,  sir,  to 
attempt  on  this  occasion  to  indicate  what  the 
policy  of  the  General  Government  may  be,  but 
one  thing  must  be  evident  to  all,  and  that  is, 
that  where  the  taxation  is  about  equal  per 
head,  the  adjustment  of  it  cannot  be  attended 
with  any  injustice  to  the  people  of  any  of  the 
several  provinces.  Reductions  may  be  made  in 
our  customs,  on  the  one  hand ;  and,  perhaps, 
on  the  other,  some  portions  of  our  commerce 
may  be  relieved  from  the  exactions  to  which 
they  are  now  subjected.  Apart  from  the  advan- 
tages which  will  manifestly  flow  from  the  free 
trade  which  will  hereafter  exist  between  us, 
it  must  be  clear  to  every  member  of  the  House 
that  the  credit  of  each  and  all  the  provinces 
will  be  greatly  advanced  by  a  union  of  their 
resources.  A  larsrer  fund  will  be  available 
as  security  to  the  public  creditor,  larger  in- 
dustries will  be  subjected  to  the  action  of  the 
Legislature  for  the  maintenance  of  public 
credit,  and  we  will  also  see  removed  some  of 
those  apprehensions  which  have  latterly  affected 
the  public  credit  of  this  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  must  be  evident,  for  it  is  proved 
by  the  fluctuating  quotations  of  the  secu- 
rities of  these  provinces  in  London  that 
the  apprehension  of  war  with  the  United 
States — which  has,  unfortunately,  affected  the 
prices  of  Canadian  bonds — ^has  not  to  the  same 
extent  effected  those  of  New  Brunswick  and 
Nova  Scotia,  which  are  less  exposed  to  hostile 
attack ;  and  we  may  therefore  hope  that 
the  union,  while  it  affords  us  greater  re- 
sources, wiU,  at  the  same  time,  carry  with  it  a 
greater  sense  of  security.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
must  now  enquire  whether  the  proposed 
system  of  general  and  local  governments, 
as  regards  the  interests  to  which  I  have 
already  alluded,  is  likely  to  work  beneficially ; 


and  this  brings  me  to  the  consideration  of  the 
question  of  the  means  that  will  be  at  the  dis- 
posal of  the  general  and  local  governments. 
It  must  be  admitted  that  having  the  power  of 
taxation  in  their  own  hands,  it  will  be  the 
fault  of  the  General  Legislature  if  any  em- 
barrassment is  felt  in  meeting  the  expendi- 
ture of  the  General  Government.  Before, 
however,  passing  to  the  consideration  of  the 
means  at  the  disposal  of  the  local  govern- 
ments, I  would  take  this  opportunity  of  reply- 
ing to  the  honorable  member  for  Hochel;)ga,  in 
reference  to  the  export  duty  on  timber  in  New 
Brunswick,  and  the  royalty  in  Nova  Scotia 
on  the  produce  of  the  mines.  This  has  arisen 
from  the  circumstance  that  in  the  former  pro- 
vince it  was  found  both  expensive  and  incon- 
venient to  attempt  to  levy  their  timber  dues 
in  the  forest,  and  they  therefore  adopted  the 
plan  of  causing  them  to  be  paid  in  the  form 
of  an  export  duty  upon  the  clearances  of 
vessels  at  the  custom  house.  If,  therefore, 
provision  had  not  been  made  for  securing  to 
New  Brunswick  the  payment  of  these  dues, 
that  province  would  have  been  deprived  of  the 
large  amount  which  its  territorial  timber  con- 
tributes to  the  revenue,  and  the  General 
Legislature  would  have  been  required  to  in- 
crease the  proposed  grant  to  that  province  by 
an  amount  equal  to  those  dues — somewhere 
about  $90,000  per  annum.  In  the  case  of 
Nova  Scotia — not  possessing  any  public  lands 
or  timber  to  any  extent — her  territorial  reve- 
nue is  almost  wholly  derived  from  her  mines, 
and  collected  in  the  form  of  royalty.  Her 
representatives  at  the  Conference  pointed  out 
that  if  the  policy  of  the  General  (jovernment 
should  be  to  impose  an  export  duty  on  her 
coal,  it  would  virtually  oblige  her  either  to  re- 
linquish the  royalty,  which  now  forms  a  large 
source  of  her  revenue,  or  submit  to  be  placed  in 
a  most  disadvantageous  position  in  competing 
in  the  American  markets  with  the  coal  of  that 
country.  For  these  reasons  an  exception  was 
made  in  the  case  of  both  of  these  provinces, 
such  as  has  been  alluded  to  by  the  honorable 
member.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  the  case  of  New- 
foundland, an  arrangement  has  been  made 
whereby  the  whole  of  the  territorial  rights  of 
that  colony  have  been  ceded  to  the  General 
Government,  and  I  will  take  the  opportunity, 
when  adverting  to  the  means  of  supporting 
the  Local  Government  of  that  colony,  to  ex- 
plain the  manner  and  the  consideration  for 
which  these  rights  were  so  ceded.  (Hear.)  I 
now  propose,  sir,  to  refer  to  the  means  which 
will  be  at  the  disposal  of  the  several  local 
eovenimpnts  to   enable   them   to   administer 


68 


the  varioua  matters  of  public  policy  whicli 
it  ie  proposed  to  entrust  to  them,  and  it  is  evi- 
dent that  unless  ample  provision  is  made  in  the 
arrangements,  great  danger  will  arise  that  the 
machinery  whereby  the  local  wants  of  the  people 
are  intended  to  be  met  will  speedily  become 
impaired,  causing  complaint  on  the  part  of 
the  inhabitants  of  the  respective  localities, 
and  involving  considerable  danger  to  the  whole 
machinery  of  government.  (Hear,  hear. )  In 
the  case  of  Canada  it  will  be  remembered 
that  the  sum  of  nearly  five  millions  of  the 
public  debt  has  to  be  borne  by  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  It  will  hereafter  be  for  the 
House  to  decide  how  this  sum  shall  be  appor- 
tioned, but  the  probability  is  that  the  Govern- 
ment will  recommend  that  it  shall  be  divided 
on  the  basis  of  population.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
must  be  remembered  that  Canada  will  have 
at  its  disposal  a  large  amount  of  the  local 
assets,  including  especially  the  sums  due  to 
the  municipal  loan  fund,  which  will  produce 
an  income  for  the  support  of  their  local  in- 
stitutions. As  a  matter  of  account  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  and  the  General 
Government,  they  will  be  charged  with  the 
interest  on  their  respective  proportions  of  the 
five  millions  against  the  subsidy  which  it  is 
proposed  shall  be  given  to  them,  while  they 
themselves  will  collect  from  the  municipalities 
and  other  local  sources  all  the  revenue  and 
amounts  which  now  enter  into  the  general 
revenue  of  the  Province  of  Canada.  The 
question  of  the  sub-division  of  the  local  assets 
of  Canada  is  not,  however,  before  the  House. 
What  we  have  now  to  consider  is  whether  the 
bargain  as  between  Canada  as  a  whole  and 
the  Lower  Provinces  ought  to  be  assented  to. 
If  it  be  assented  to  the  question  will  arise, 
how  shall  we  deal  with  the  local  matters  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada  ?  and  a  pro- 
position will  be  brought  down  which  I  hope 
and  believe  will  satisfy  both  sections,  and  do 
them  substantial  justice. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION—WillLower  Canada 
be  charged  with  the  municipjJ  loan  fund,  the 
seigniorial  indemnity,  and  the  educational  in- 
demnity ? 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — I  must  repcjat  that,  no 
matter  what  views  the  Government  may  have 
on  the  distribution  of  the  liabilities  a.s  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  they  will  be 
susceptible  of  alteration  in  any  way  the  House 
may  see  fit,  this  being  a  matter  solely  of  local 
arrangement,  and  in  no  respect  involving  the 
agreement  entered  into  witli  the  otlier  prov- 
inces ;  but  I  must  point  out  that,  as  regards 
the  original  seigniorial  indemnity  and  th«  mu- 


nicipal loan,  they  are  both  included  in  the 
sixty-seven  millions  filready  stated  as  the  lia- 
bilities  of    Canada,    and    cannot,    therefore, 
form    any  additional  charse    against   Lower 
Canada.  (Hear,   hear.)     Indeed,  as   regards 
the   Municipal   Loan   Fund,  instead  of  being 
stated  as  a  liability,  it  appears  that  the  sums 
due  under  it  are,  in  connection  with  the  ques- 
tion as  I  now  view  it,  to  be  regarded  in  the 
light  of  assets,  because  we  are  considering  now 
the  sums  received  as  assets  by  Lower  Canada. 
The  Municipal  Loan  Fund  being  one  of  them, 
the  sums  due  to  it  under  the  existing  provin- 
cial arrangements  will  become  payable  as  an 
asset  to  that  section  of  the  province.  (Hear.) 
It  will  be  observed  that  in  the  plan  proposed 
there  are  certain  sources  of  local  revenue  re- 
served to  the  Local  Governments,  arising  from 
territorial   domain,  lands,  mines,  &c.     In  the 
case  of  Canada,  a  large  sum  will  be  received 
from  these  resources,  but  it  may  be  that  some 
of  them,  such  as  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund, 
will  become  exhausted  in  course  of  time.  We 
may,  however,   place  just  confidence  in  the 
development  of  our  resources,  and  repose  in 
the    belief  that    we  shall   find    in    our    ter- 
ritorial domain,  our  valuable  mines  and  our 
fertile    lands,  additional  sources  of   revenue 
far  beyond    the  requirements  of  the   public 
service.     If,  nevertheless,  the  local  revenues 
become  inadequate,   it  will  be  necessary  for 
the  local  governments   to  have  resort  to  di- 
rect taxation  ;  and  I  do  not  hesitate  to  say  th;<t 
one  of  the  wisest  provisions  in  the  proposed 
Constitution,  and  that  which  affords  the  surest 
guarantee  that  the  people  will  take  a  healthy 
interest  in  their  own  affairs  and  see  that  no 
extravagance  is  committed  by  those  placed  in 
powor  over  them,  is  to  be  found  in  the  fact 
that  those  who  are  called  upon  to  administer 
public  affairs  will  feel,  when    they  resort  to 
direct   taxation,  that  a   solemn   responsibility 
rests  upon  them,  and  that  that  re.«ipoiisibllity 
will  be  exacted  by  the  people  in  the  most  per- 
emptory manner,     (lli-ar,  hear. )      If  the  men 
in  power  find  that  they  are  ri'ijuired.by  means 
of  direct  taxation,  to  procure  the  fund.s  nece.v 
sary  to  administer  the  local  affairs,  for  which 
abundant   pruvisitm   is  made   in   the   sehome, 
they  will   pause   bel'orc   they  enter  upon    any 
career  of  extravagance.      Indeed,    I    do   not 
hesitate  to  say,  that  il"  the  public  men  (if  those 
provinces  were  suthcieiitly  edueated  to  untlor- 
Htand  th<'ir  own  interests  in  the  trne  light  of 
the    principles  of  political   eiHinninv,  it  would 
be  found  btitter  now  to  substitute  direct  tax- 
ation for  Koino  of  the  indirect  modes  by  which 
taxation  has  been  imposed  upon  th«  iuduetry 


69 


of  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not,  how- 
ever, believe  that  at  this  moment  it  is  possible, 
nor  do  I  think  the  people  of  this  country- 
would  support  any  government  in  adopting 
this  measure  unless  it  were  forced  upon  them 
by  the  pressure  of  an  overwhelming  necessity 
— the  necessity  of  providing,  by  extraordinary 
means,  against  dangers  by  which  the  peace, 
happiness  and  prosperity  of  the  country  may 
be  threatened,  in  fact,  by  some  of  those  great 
disturbing  causes  which  are  frequently  the 
beginning  of  the  most  important  financial 
changes.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  local  revenue 
of  Upper  Canada  during  the  last  four  years 
has  averaged  the  sum  of  $739,000,  and  that 
of  Lower  Canada,  $557,239 ;  together  they 
amount  to  nearly  $1,300,000,  independent  of 
the  eighty  cents  per  head  which  it  is  proposed 
to  allow  the  local  governments  out  of  the 
general  exchequer,  for  the  purpose  of  meet^ 
ing  their  local  expenditures.  These  local 
expenditures  include  such  items  as  the  ad- 
ministration of  justice,  the  support  of  educa- 
tion, grants  to  literary  and  scientific  societies, 
hospitals  and  charities,  and  such  other  mat- 
ters as  cannot  be  regarded  as  devolving  upon 
the  General  Government.  The  whole  charge, 
exclusive  of  the  expenses  of  local  government 
and  legislation,  on  an  average  of  the  last  four 
years,  has  in  Lower  Canada  amounted  to 
$997,000,  and  in  Upper  Canada  to  $1,024,- 
622  per  annum.  In  addition  to  these 
sums,  will  have  now  to  be  added  such 
amounts  as  may  be  required  to  meet  the  cost 
of  the  Civil  Government  of  the  country  and 
of  the  Legislation  for  local  purposes.  It 
may  be  difficult  to  form  any  reliable  esti- 
mate of  the  sums  required  for  this  purpose, 
but  when  the  House  considers  that,  according 
to  the  statements  given  of  the  expenditure 
during  the  last  four  years,  there  will  be  avail- 
able in  the  whole  Province  of  Canada  the  sum 
of  no  less  than  $1,04:3,015,  it  must,  I  think, 
be  admitted  that  if  those  charged  with  the 
administration  of  local  aff"airs  in  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  exceed  this  amount  they  will 
be  guilty  of  a  degree  of  profligacy  and  extra- 
vagance for  which  a  speedy  remedy  will  be 
found  by  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  With 
reference  to  the  Lower  Provinces,  the  delegates 
from  them  to  the  Conference  were  asked  what 
reductions  they  could  make  in  the  existing 
cost  of  the  government  of  their  several  colonies, 
and  the  figures  I  am  about  to  give  will  be 
formd  most  satisfactory,  as  showing  their  dis- 
position to  reduce  their  requirements  to  the 
lowest  possible  sum.  In  the  case  of  Nova 
Sootia,   the  estimate  of  outlay  in  1864  for 


objects  of  a  local  character  required  an  expen- 
diture of  no  less  than  $667,000.     Some  por- 
tion of  this  expenditure  was  for  sei-vices  that 
did  not  require  again  to  be  performed,  but  it 
is  gratifying  to  observe  that  they  have  under- 
taken to  perform  the  whole  service  in  future 
for  $371,000.     (Hear,  hear.)     In  the  case  of 
New  Brunswick,  in  1864  the  estimated  expen- 
diture was  $404,000,  which  they  have  under- 
taken to  reduce  to  $353,000,  and  at  the  same 
time  they  have  further  undertaken  within  ten 
years   to   make    an   additional    reduction    of 
$63,000,  thus  reducing  the  whole  expenditure 
in  the  future  to   $290,000.     (Hear,   hear.) 
Prince  Edward  Island,  with  an  expenditure  of 
$124,000,  proposes  to  perform  the  same  local 
duties  that  formerly  required  $170,000  ;  and. 
in  Newfoundland  an  outlay  of  $479,000  has 
been  similarly  reduced  to  $350,000.  (Cheers.) 
The  House  must  now,  sir,  consider  the  means 
whereby  these  local  expenditures  have^  to  be 
met.     I  have  already  explained  that,  in  the 
case  of  Canada,  and  also  in  that  of  the  Lower 
Provinces,  certain  sources  of  revenue  are  set 
aside  as  being  of  a  purely  local  character  and 
available  to  meet  the  local  expenditure  ;  but 
I  have  been  obliged  in  my  explanations  with 
regard  to  Canada  to  advert  to  the  fact  that  it 
is  Contemplated  to  give  a  subsidy  of  80  cents 
per  head  to  each  of  the  Provinces.     In  trans- 
ferring  to  the  General   Government  all   the 
large  sources  of  revenue,  and  in  placing  in 
their  hand  with  a  single  exception,  that  of 
direct  taxation,  all  the   means  whereby  the 
industry  of  the  people  may  be  made  to  contri- 
bute to  the  wants  of  the  state,  it  must  be  evi- 
dent to  ?very  one  that  some  portion  of  the 
resources  thus  placed   at  the  disposal  of  the 
General  Government  must  in  some  form  or 
other  be  available  to  supply  the  hiatus  that 
would  otherwise  take  place  between  the  sources 
of  local  revenue    and  the  demands  of   local 
expenditure.     The  members  of  the  Conference 
c.  nsidered  this  question  with  the  most  earnest 
desire  to  reduce  to  the  lowest  possible  limits 
the  sum  that  was  thus  required,  and  I  think 
the  figures  that  I  have  already  given  to  the 
House   afford  the  best  possible  evidence  that 
no  disposition  existed,  at  any  rate  on  the  part 
of  our  friends  from  the  Lower  Provinces,  to 
take  from  the  public  exchequer  one  shilling 
more  than  the  necessities  of  their  respective 
communities   absolutely   demanded.      (Hear, 
hear.)     In  the  case  of  Canada,  perliaps  it  will 
be  said   that  a  smaller  sum  wonH  have  met 
our  immediate  wants,  but  it  wP^  felt  that  it 
would  be  impossible  to  justify  any  distinction 
being  drawn  between  subjects  of  the  same 


70 


country.  And  if  in  Canada  wc  receive  per- 
haps a  somewhat  larcrer  amount  than  we  ab- 
sohitely  require,  it  ousht  r;ither  to  be  a  subject 
of  gratification  to  this  House  that  it  will  pos- 
sess the  means  of  triving  greater  encourage- 
ment to  our  (educational  system,  and  greater 
development  to  those  interests  which  are 
peculiarly  entrusted  to  the  charge  of  the  local 
governments,  and  this,  too,  without  making 
any  greater  demand  than  is  at  this  time 
made  upon  the  resources  of  the  people. 
(Hear,  hear.)  A  subsidy  of  80  cents  per 
head  was  provided,  based  upon  the  popu- 
lation according  to  the  census  of  18G1.  The 
amount,  if  taken  upon  the  basis  of  the  present 
population,  would  undoubtedly  be  considerably 
less  ;  and  it  must  be  observed  that  the  agree- 
ment does  not  contemplate  any  future  exten- 
sion of  this  amount.  It  is  hoped  that  being 
in  itself  fixed  and  permanent  in  its  character, 
the  local  governments  will  see  the  importance 
— T  may  say  the  necessity — of  their  exercising 
a  rigid  and  proper  control  over  the  expendi- 
ture of  their  several  provinces.  We  thus 
obtain  one  of  the  greatest  securities  that  can 
be  oflFered  to  us  that  those  influences  which, 
in  such  a  Legislature  as  we  now  possess  in 
Canada,  are  brought  to  bear  for  the  purpose 
of  swelHng  the  public  expenditure,  will  not 
exist  in  the  local  legislatures,  but  will  meet  with 
such  a  resistance,  from  the  mere  fact  of  the 
inability  of  the  local  governments  to  obey 
them,  as  to  produce  a  very  considerable 
Saving  in  the  general  expense  of  the  whole 
country.  (Hear,  hear.)  T  have  now,  Mr. 
Speaker,  only  to  advert  to  the  last  question 
which  T  have  stated  is  necessary  to'be  decided 
on  the  present  occasion  ;  and  that  is,  whether 
under  the  proposed  Confederution  such  addi- 
tion al  expenses  will  be  incurred  as  to  render 
it  undesirable.  In  considering  this  jwint,  I 
must  state  that  in  my  opinion  the  (|uestion  oi' 
expense  alone  is  by  no  means  a  fair  criterion 
by  which  to  judge  of  the  advantages  of  a  mea- 
sure such  as  that  now  before  the  House.  If 
it  be  looked  at  in  its  most  restricted  sense,  the 
only  point  in  wliich  additional  expense  can  be 
incurred,  must  be  that  of  the  simple  cost  of 
governing  the  coui\try.  In  no  other  way  that 
I  am  able  to  see,  can  there  be  additional  ex- 
pense charged  upon  the  jM'ople  ;  and  looking 
at  it  in  this  point  of  view,  we  may  well  dniibt 
wh'!th<T  the  aggrcg  ite  charge  will  In-  greater 
for  the  General  (jovernment,  earing  for  the 
general  interests  ol'  the  whole,  and  for  the 
local  g(n'''\?iuneiits,  attentling  merely  to  tlie 
locul  busiiiei-K  of  eacli  HCOtion, — we  may  well 
doult,  1  hay,   whether  that    expense  will  be 


greater,  in  any  considerable  degree,  than  that 
which  is  required  for  our  Government  under 
the  present  system.  ( Hear,  hear.)  On  the 
one  hand  we  shall  be  free  from  the  empty 
parade  of  small  Courts  entailed  by  our  present 
system  on  each  of  these  provinces,  keeping  up 
a  pretence  of  regal  show  when  the  reality  is 
wanting ;  we  shall  have  the  legislation  of  the 
General  Government  restricted  to  tho.se  great 
questions  which  may  properly  occupy  the 
attention  of  the  first  men  in  the  country  ;  we 
shall  not  have  our  time  frifered  away  in 
considering  the  merits  of  petty  local  bills, 
and  therefore  we  may  reasonably  hope  that 
the  expenses  of  the  General  Legislature  will 
be  considerably  le.ss  than  even  those  of  the 
Legislature  of  Canada  at  the  present  moment, 
— while,  on  the  other  hand,  the  local  legis- 
latures having  to  deal  rather  with  municipal 
than  great  general  questions,  will  be  able  to 
dispose  of  them  in  a  manner  more  satisfactory 
to  the  peopl'-.  and  at  infinitely  1  .ss  expense 
than  Tiow.  I  believe,  therefore,  the  simpl" 
cost  of  the  Gt)vernment  of  the  country  will 
not  be  in  reality  any  grenter  under  the  new 
than  under  the  old  system  :  but  tliere  are 
other  items  of  expenditure  for  great  public 
objects,  the  absence  of  which  from  the  esti- 
mates of  any  country  is  an  indication  ratlier 
of  weakness  and  of  dependence  than  a  sub- 
ject that  ought  to  form  a  source  of  satisfac- 
tion. If  such  items  are  not  now  found  in  the 
public  expenditure,  either  of  Canada  or  the 
Lower  Provinces,  it  is  the  best  proof  that 
could  be  given  that  our  position  is  one  of  in- 
feriority, and  that  we  do  not  possess  either 
the  power  or  the  means  to  undertiike  such 
works  as  make  such  items  necessary.  Let  me 
give  one  or  two  points  as  examples  of  my 
meaning  ;  ami  first  I  will  instance  the  great 
question  of  defence — ( hear,  hear  ^ — the  absence 
of  items  of  expenditure  for  which  e-in  only  be 
an  indication  that  we  are  lacking  in  one  of  the 
chief  elements  of  national  grentnes.s,  that  we 
do  not  properly  value  the  institutions  under 
which  we  live,  and  tliat  we  are  nut  willing  to 
make  the  sacrifices  that  every  free  ptNiple  must 
make  if  they  are  desirous  of  preserving  them. 
The  same  argument  ;qiplies  to  public  works, 
in  connection  witli  wiiich  it  might  be  said 
that  great  advantaize  wcmld  arise  from  large 
expenditure;  but  with  limited  resources  and 
an  undeveloped  tenil«iry  it  might  be  iinpo.^- 
siblo  for  any  aumll  ecmntry  to  und«Ttake  the 
neeessnrv  outl.iv.  Many  works  of  this  kind 
are  not  directly  productive  of  revenue,  idthough 
indirectly  of  the  utmost  advant.ige,  and  if 
Uie  resources  of  a  country  genorilly  caimot 


71 


be  applied  to  that  outlay,  the  absence  of  such 
expenditure  ought  to  be  a  subject  of  regret 
in  the  community,  and  not  of  rejoicing. 
(Hear,  hear.)  In  this  view  let  us  look  at 
the  immense  extent  of  territory  that  gtretches 
away  west  of  Upper  Canada.  The  reason 
why  we  have  not  been  able  to  assume  posses- 
sion of  that  territory  and  open  it  up  to  the 
industry  of  the  youth  of  this  country  who, 
in  consequence  of  the  want  of  some  such 
field  for  the  employment  of  their  energies, 
have  been  obliged  to  go  off  to  the  States  in 
thousands,  especially  to  those  states  possess- 
ing the  boundless  resources  of  the  great 
North- West,  is  because  there  sources  of  Can- 
ada— great  as  they  have  been,  considering  the 
disadvantages  under  which  she  has  labored — 
have  been  inadequate  for  the  development  of 
this  great  district.  Now,  one  of  the  resqlutions 
of  the  scheme  before  the  House  refers  to  this 
same  question,  and  I  believe  that  one  of  the 
first  acts  of  the  General  Government  of 
the  United  Provinces  will  be  to  enter  into 
public  obligations  for  the  purpose  of  opening 
up  and  developing  that  vast  region,  and  of 
making  it  a  source  of  strength  instead  of  a 
burden  to  us  and  to  the  ^Mother  Country  also. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Looking,  however,  to  the 
whole  question  of  expense,  I  must  say  that  if 
the  benefits  of  Confederation  are  to  be  weighed 
against  the  loss  of  three  or  four  hundred 
thousand  dollars,  the  House  had  better  care- 
fully consider  whether  the  people  of  this 
country  will  not  accept  the  former  at  such 
comparatively  trifling  cost — whether  they  will 
not  feel  that  a  union  with  a  million  of  their 
fellow  colonists  is  worth  much  more  to  them 
than  any  small  pecuniary  question  of  this 
kind  that  may  arise.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  trust 
the  House  will  not  permit  the  question  to  be 
judged  of  in  a  small,  contracted  manner.  I 
trust  it  will  keep  in  view  the  desire  the  country 
manifests  for  the  utmost  possible  development 
of  its  resources.  Let  us  endeavor  by  this 
measure  to  aflbrd  a  better  opening  than  we 
noAV  possess  for  the  industry  and  intelligence 
of  the  people.  Let  us  seek  by  this  scheme 
to  give  them  higher  and  worthier  objects  of 
ambition.  Let  us  not  reject  the  scheme  with 
the  bright  prospect  it  offers  of  a  nobler  future 
for  our  youth,  and  grander  objects  for  the 
emulation  of  our  public  men.  Let  us  not  re- 
fuse it  on  small  questions  of  detail,  but  judge 
it  on  its  general  merits.  Let  us  not  lose  sight 
of  the  great  advantages  which  union  offers 
because  there  may  be  some  small  matters 
which,  as  individuals,  we  may  not  like.  Let 
us  trust  that  this  machinery,  however  faulty 


it  may  be,  will  yet  under  Providence  open  up 
for  this  country  a  happy  career  ;  while  at  the 
same  time  the  House  must  not  forget  that  it 
will  for  ever  remove  the  great  and  crying  evils 
and  dissensions  which  have  existed  in  Canada 
for  the  last  ten  years,  and  which  have  threat- 
ened to  plunge  the  country  into  the  most  dis- 
asterous  and  lamentable  state  ol  discord  and 
confusion.  (Cheers.)  Surely  this  last  fact 
alone  will  commend  the  project  to  the  House. 
It  should  induce  the  Legislature  and  the  peo- 
ple to  make  every  allowance  for  the  men  who 
have  been  engaged  in  the  work,  and  lead 
them  to  approach  the  result  of  their  labors 
as  now  submitted,  not  in  a  hypercritical  spirit 
so  that  the  public  mind  may  be  led  astray  on 
mere  matters  of  detail.  Let  the  House  frank- 
ly and  kindly  look  at  it  a,s  a  great  measure 
brought  down  for  the  purpose  of  relieving 
the  country  from  distress  and  depression,  and 
give  it  that  consideration  which  is  due,  not  to 
the  arguments  of  the  Government,  feeble  as 
they  may  be  in  view  of  the  great  interests 
involved,  but  to  the  fact  that  the  country 
desires  and  cries  for,  at  the  hands  of  the 
House,  some  measure  whereby  its  internal 
prosperity,  peace  and  happiness  may  be  de- 
veloped and  maintained.     (Loud  cheers.) 

On  motion  of  Hon.  Mr.  Brown,  the  de- 
bate was  then  adjourned. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL. 


Wednesday,  Fehruaty  8, 1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS  continued  the  debate  as 
follows: — Honorabb  gentlemen  will  remember 
that  I  yesterday  moved  the  adjournment  with 
the  intention  of  replying  to  the  remarks  of  the 
hon.  member  from  Niagara  Division  (Hon. 
Mr.  Currie),  who  engaged  the  attention  of 
the  House  durirg  most  of  its  sitting.  From 
its  commencement  to  its  conclusion,  the  speech 
of  that  honorable  gentleman  was  of  a  most 
remarkable  character.  At  its  very  outset  he 
took  the  opportunity  of  quoting  somj  parts  of 
the  first  speech  he  made  in  this  chamber,  two 
years  ago,  in  which  he  strongly  approved  of 
the  principle  of  a  Confederation  between 
Canada  and  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  in  some 
portions  of  his  yesterday's  speech  he  reiterated 
in  a  very  decided  manner  his  approval  of  such 
a  scheme.  But  other  parts  of  his  speech  were 
of  such  a  character  that  if  any  of  the  pro- 
moters of  Confederation  had  been  at  first  in- 
clined to  number  him  among  the  friends  of 


72 


Intercolonial  Union,  they  might  afterwards 
have  said  "  save  us  from  our  friends."  (Hear.) 
He  took,  the  \erj  singular  course  of  first 
decrying  the  credit  of  the  Lower  Provinces, 
and  then  decrying  that  of  Canada  itself,  en- 
deavoring to  show  first  that  we  were  making 
a  very  bad  bargain  in  uniting  our  destiny 
with  such  poor  provinces  as  they  were, 
and  afterwards  that  such  was  our  state 
of  bankruptcy  that  they  would  be  very 
foolish  indeed  in  joining  their  fate  with 
ours.  (Laughter.)  It  would,  indeed,  be  almost 
a  sufficient  answer  to  the  honorable  ineui- 
ber  to  take  his  speech  in  separate  paragraphs 
and  to  place  certain  of  them  opposite  to  others 
as  the  reply,  for  a  more  illogical  and  inconse- 
quential address  I  hardly  ever  heard.  Nor 
was  he  content  with  dealing  in  what  he  thought 
was  irony  or  sarcasm,  but  ventured  to  attack 
important  statements  of  fact  made  by  the  pub- 
lic men  of  this  and  the  other  provinces.  Now, 
if  we  are  to  have  a  Confederation  at  all,  I  think 
we  should  be  careful  what  language  we  use  with 
respect  to  such  men,  and  what  statements  we 
place  before  the  public.  If  language  such  as 
the  hon.  member  permitted  himself  to  use  be 
encouraged,  it  will  be  impossible  to  secure  the 
good  feeling  and  harmony  which  arc  indispen- 
sably necessary  to  the  well-working  of  the 
contemplated  union.  I  am,  however,  satisfied 
that  the  sober  sense  of  the  House  willcondeuiu 
such  language,  not  only  when  it  comes  from 
the  hon.  member  for  Niagara,  but  when  falling 
from  any  other  hon.  member.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  hon.  member  commenced  his  attacks  upon 
the  public  men  of  the  provinces  by  quoting 
from  a  speech  of  Mr.  Lynch,  recently  deliv- 
ered at  Halifax,  and  did  his  best  to  turn  it 
into  ridicule,  as  well  as  to  excite  contemptuous 
laughter  at  the  expense  of  that  gentleman. 
Now  the  statements  Mr.  Lynch  made  are 
facts,  not  foolish  inventions,  as  the  hon.  mem- 
ber pretended.  That  gentleman  spoke  by 
the  book,  and  relied  for  his  iuforuiaticjn  upon 
the  official  report  of  one  of  our  public  depart- 
ments, and  if  the  hon.  member  will  turn  to 
the  census  ol"  1852,  he  will  find,  at  page  32,  a 
table  comparing  the  produce  of  Canada  and 
the  United  States,  I'rom  which  it  appears  that, 
while  that  of  the  latter  increased  48  per  cent., 
that  of  Canada  increa.scd  400  per  cent,  during 
the  previous  decade.  This  is  what  Mr.  ]jYNCH 
stated,  and  what  tlie  hon.  member  lor  Niagara 
asserted  to  be  untrue. 

Hon.  Mr.  CU  UK  IE —That  yrm  between 
the  yearti  1841  imd  1851,  while  tht^  remarks 
of  Mr.  Lv.Nyu  had  r«i«reuoa  to  the  subsequent 
d«QaUc, 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — It  is  not  so;  Mr.LYNOH 
■poke  of  an  increase  of  ten  years ;  he  read 
from  our  official  records  in  proof,  and  read 
correctly.  The  hon.  member  probably  derived 
his  information  from  some  newspaper,  and  the 
error  he  has  committed  should  teach  him  to  be 
more  cautious  how  he  assails  public  men  on 
such  evidence.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  then  turned 
from  Mr.  Lynch  to  the  Premier  of  New 
Brunswick,  a  gentleman  of  the  highest  char- 
acter and  ability,  who  is  so  strong  in  the 
esteem  and  confidence  of  the  people  of  that 
province  that  it  seems  impossible  to  displace  him. 
Now  I  maintain  that,  to  say  the  least  it  is  in 
extremely  bad  taste  to  attack  high-placed 
public  men,  especially  those  of  other  countries, 
and  more  especially  those  of  the  sister  colonies, 
as  the  hon.  member  has  done. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUKRIE— I  did  not  attack 
them.     . 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — The  hon.  member  has 
attacked  their  veracity ;  he  has  denied  the  cor- 
rectness of  the  statements  they  made  openly 
as  public  men.  The  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  quoted 
the  figures  of  our  own  Minister  of  Finance, 
and  the  hon.  member  represented  him  as  not 
speaking  the  truth,  but  as,  in  effect,  attempting 
to  deceive  those  whom  he  addressed. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — I  b^  to  know  when 
the  Finance  Minister  of  Canada  stated  that 
the  average  duties  collected  in  Canada  were 
11  per  cent.     The  figures — 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — The  honorable  member 
will  find  it  in  the  Finance  Minister's  speech, 
and  while  I  do  not  think  it  proper  in  him 
to  interrupt  me  for  the  purpose  of  going  into 
calculations  just  at  this  moment,  I  maint.-iin 
that  by  taking  all  the  imports,  including  those 
free  of  duty,  the  honorable  member  will  find 
that  the  rate  stated  is  exactly  correct.  The 
imports  in  18153  amounted  to  $45,964,493, 
and  the  duty  collected  was  85,169,173,  which 
is  just  11  per  cent,  of  the  whole.  I  repeat, 
honorable  gentlemen,  that,  instead  of  making 
such  attacks  on  great  public  men,  I  conceive 
it  to  be  more  properly  our  duty  to  deiend 
them.  (Hear.)  Having  thus  disjwsed  of  the 
remarks  the  honorable  member  made  on  the 
veracity  of  Mr.  Lynch  and  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley, 
I  will  now  advert  to  that  portion  of  liis  remarks 
in  which  he  endeavored  to  slu»w  that  lion.  Mr. 
Galt's  statements  were  incorrect.  He  referred 
to  the  figures  respecting  the  tonnage  of  tlie  pro- 
posed Confederation,  a.s  quot«.'d  by  Hon.  Mr. 
Galt,  and  pooh-jH)ohed  his  remarks  in  a  way 
which  was  no  doubt  intended  to  be  very  amusing. 
The  Miuistt-r  of  Finance  declared  that  when 
i\x<i  Uuioa  WM  «li'cct«d,  wo  should  be,  ho  bo- 


I 


73 


lieved,  tlie  third  largest  country  in  the  world, 
as  regards  the  tonnage  of  our  commercial 
marine,  though  possibly  France  might  be  about 
on  an  equality  with  us.  England,  he  said, 
was  the  first,  the  United  States  the  second, 
and  either  France  or  the  contemplated  Con- 
federation would  be  the  third  ;  and  this  is  true. 
[  will  read  the  statement  of  that  honorable 
gentleman  : — 

The  sea-going  tonaage  of  Canada,  including 
that  of  the  inland  lakes,  amounts  to  about  nine 
million  tons,  a  great  portion  of  which,  however, 
represents  the  tonnage  of  vessels  performing  the 
coasting  service,  many  of  which  frequently  clear 
and  arrive  in  the  course  of  one  day.  It  is  grati- 
fying to  know  that  the  trade  between  Canada  and 
the  States  on  the  other  side  of  the  lakes  is  of  a 
nature  to  give  employment  to  a  large  portion  of 
this  lake  tonnage — amounting  to  6,907,0''0  tons. 
I  cannot  class  that  in  the  same  category  as  the 
tonnage  arriving  at  Quebec  and  Montreal  which, 
in  most  cases,  can  only  make  two  or  three  trips 
per  annum.  The  seagoing  tonnage  of  Canada 
amounts  to  2,133,000  tons;  of  New  Brunswick, 
1,386,000  tons  ;  of  Nova  Scotii,  1,432,000  tons. 
Consequently  the  amount  of  sea-going  tonnage, 
subject  only  to  a  small  deduction,  is  actually 
about  five  million  tons. 

The  way  the  honorable  Minister  of  Finance 
made  up  his  statement  was  exactly  similar  to 
that  in  which  the  same  kind  of  statistical 
statements  were  made  up  in  England,  the 
United  States,  and  other  great  maritime 
countries,  the  object  being  to  show  the  actual 
amount  of  tonnage  employed  during  each  year 
in  the  carrying  trade.  It  does  not  matter 
whether  a  vessel  is  engaged  in  long  or  short 
Toyages  ;  if  it  be  employed  merely  as  a  ferry, 
the  fact  of  its  being  so  employed  in  carrying 
goods  inwards  or  outwards  is  a  proof  that  its 
tonnage  capacity  is  required  by  the  trade  of 
the  countries  to  and  from  which  it  plies. 
(Hear.)  But  the  honorable  member  made  it 
appear  untruly  that  the  statement  of  the  hon- 
orable the  Minister  of  Finance  with  respect  to 
the  tonnage  employed  on  the  Canadian  lakes 
was  put  forth  for  the  purpose  of  misleading 
the  public  and  inducing  them  erroneously  to 
believe  that  the  Confederation  will  have  a  pro- 
minent place  among  the  great  maritime  nations 
by  reason  of  the  tonnage  employed  in  its 
trade.  Mr.  Galt's  statement  was  that  the 
sea-going  tonnage  of  the  proposed  Confedera- 
tion would  be  the  third  largest  employed  in 
the  trade  of  the  world,  and  the  statistics  re- 
garding the  tonnage  of  the  inland  waters  of 
Canada  were  superadded  to  those  of  the  sea- 
going tonnage  of  the  Union.  The  two  state- 
ments were  made  perfectly  distinct,  in  «Tery 
11 


table  and  every  speech  emanating  from  the 
Minister  of  Finance  or  his  department.  It 
is  thus  the  honorable  member  has  availed 
himself  of  his  position  for  the  purpose  of 
trying  to  throw  dirt  upon  our  leading  states- 
men— of  endeavoring  to  asperse  the  charac- 
ters of  our  most  distinguished  public  men, 
and  I  repeat,  for  I  cannot  too  strongly  urge 
it  upon  the  House,  that  we  ought  to  dis- 
countenance such  attempts,  for  we  should  con- 
sider the  character  of  our  public  men  as 
public  property,  not  to  be  lightly  attacked 
and  damaged.  If  we  are  to  enter  into  this 
scheme,  we  should  at  least  do  so  un  assailed  by 
our  own  people,  and  with  as  good  a  public 
reputation  as  we  deserve.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
honorable  member  next  proceeded  to  read  ex- 
tracts from  old  Globes  and  other  newspapers, 
in  which,  with  the  characteristic  features  and 
bitter  feelings  of  the  times  in  which  they 
were  written,  certain  things  were  stated  not 
specially  commendatory  of  some  of  the  Cana- 
dian ministers  now  concerned  in  the  prepara- 
tion of  the  Confederation  scheme.  I  am  not 
here  to  defend  these  ircntlemen — the  Hon. 
Messrs.  Brown  and  McDougall,  his  own 
party  leaders,  whom  he  attacked — nor  do  I 
intend  to  make  remarks  upon  past  events,  but 
this  I  will  say,  that  the  parties  alluded  to 
have  entered  upon  their  present  work  with  the 
sincere  intention,  I  believe,  of  putting  an  end 
to  the  grave  difficulties  which  have  so  long 
distracted  the  country.  This  they  have  done 
with  the  full  concurrence  and  approbation  of 
their  political  friends,  whose  advice  they 
sought  before  entering  the  Administration  j 
and  I  think  that,  under  the  circumstances, 
instead  of  being  reproached  and  held  up  to  pub- 
lic censure,  they  ought  to  be  treated  with  con- 
fidence and  generosity.  I  have  hitherto 
always  listened  to  the  honorable  member  with 
pleasure,  even  when  I  could  not  agree  with 
him,  and  even  in  certain  parts  of  the  speech 
to  which  I  am  now  referring,  the  honorable 
member  exhibited  considerable  ability ;  but 
I  do  think,  considering  it  as  a  whole,  that 
a  more  illogical,  self-contradictory,  and  gen- 
erally objectionable  address  has  seldom  been 
made  in  the  Canadian  Legislature.  Upon 
reviewing  the  general  effect  of  this  re- 
markable effort,  I  can  only  compare  it  with 
the  performances  of  the  Parrott  guns  dis- 
charged against  Fort  Fisher,  six  of  which,  we 
have  been  told,  slightly  wounded  two  of  the 
enemy,  but  killed  and  disabled  about  fifty  of 
the  men  who  served  them.  I  take  it  that 
Hon.  Messrs.  Tillet  and  Lynch  have  got 
off"  with  very  slight  wounds  indeed,  and  that 


74 


any  damage  done  is  to  the  honorable  member's 
own  friends.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  I 
will  now  come  more  closely  to  the  subject 
under  debate,  the  proposed  Confederation  of 
Canada  and  the  other  British  North  American 
colonies,  and  in  doing  so  I  feel  I  am  dealing 
with  a  matter  in  which  is  bound  up  the  hap- 
piness and  prosperity  of  the  country,  not  for 
the  present  only,  but  for  a  long  course  of  ye^irs 
to  come.  I  only  wish  the  honorable  member 
for  the  Niagara  Division  had  read  the  debates 
which  preceded  the  establishment  of  the  Ame- 
rican Constitution  after  the  United  States  had 
gained  their  independence.  I  especially  advert 
to  the  debates  in  the  Councils  of  Virginia, 
which  at  that  time,  by  reason  of  its  wealth  and 
population,  bore  a  similar  relation  to  the  other 
colonies  to  that  which  Canada  now  bears  to  the 
Lower  Provinces.  If  he  had  read  the  speeches 
of  the  Madisons,  the  Marshalls,  the  Kax- 
DOLPHS,  the  Henrys,  the  Lees  and  others,  he 
would  have  found  no  passage  in  keeping  with 
the  sentiments  he  uttered  yesterday.  Those 
great  patriots  evidently  met  under  a  deep  sense 
of  the  responsibilities  of  their  work,  and  instead 
of  bringing  into  the  debates  the  small  village 
feelings  and  animosities  tending  to  embarrass 
and  to  destroy  harmony,  they  acted  like  great 
men,  true  and  noble  men  as  they  were,  and 
applied  themselves  to  their  task  with  the  pur- 
pose of  bringing  it  to  a  successful  issue.  The 
confederation  which  they  first  established,  in 
the  year  1781,  did  not  work  well.  It 
remained  poor,  without  respect  abroad,  or 
prosperity  at  home,  and  so  in  1789  they  aban- 
doned that  condition  of  existence  and  adopted 
the  Constitution  which  lasted  until  the  com- 
mencement of  the  present  unfortunate  war, 
and  now  governs  the  North.  In  speaking  of 
the  Constitution  prepared  by  our  delegates, 
the  honorable  member  for  Niagara  said  it  was 
neither  one  thing  nor  another,  it  was  neither 
legislative  nor  federative,  but  a  mongrel  non- 
descript scheme  between  the  two ;  a  Constitu- 
tion for  which  there  was  no  precedent  in  all 
the  world's  history.  Such,  at  least,  was  the 
effect  of  the  words  he  used.  It  happens, 
however,  to  be  a  fact,  that  in  opposition  to  the 
profound  and  enlightened  opinion  of  the  hon- 
orable member,  the  work  of  the  delegates  has 
received  the  approbation  of  some  of  the  most 
eminent  statesmen  of  England,  :is  well  as  that 
of  the  most  distinguislied  and  able  writtjrs  I'or 
tlie  press  of  that  country,  which  is  at  any  rate 
some  small  consolation.  I  will  say  that  if  the 
delegattta  who  met  at  Quebec  and  j)repared 
that  instrument  wero  incompetent  ibr  the  task, 
I  do  not  know  where  othom  can  bo  lound  to 


do  it  better ;  and,  after  all,  I  think  that,  not- 
withstanding the   remarks  of  the  honorable 
member,  the  disinterested  testimonies  to  the 
value  of  the   work  done,    coming   from   the 
quarters  I  have  indicated,  will  be  considered  in 
Canada  as  having  some  weight.     (Hear,  hear.) 
But  since  the  honorable  member  regards  this 
as  a  mongrel  constitution,  unworthy  of  ac- 
ceptance, ought  he  not  to  have  been  ready  to 
suggest  something  better  ?     Should  he  not  as 
a  patriot  have  given  the  country  the  benefit  of 
his  superior  wisdom  ?     It  is  of  no  use  to  look 
for  a  better  form  to  the  constitution  of  the 
ancient   republics    which   have  passed  away, 
their  having  ceased  to  exist  being  of  itself 
proof  enough  of  their  not  being  adapted  to 
our  wants.      The   honorable  member   might 
perhaps  have  cited  the  Swiss  and  Dutch  re- 
publics, or   the   constitutions   of  the  United 
States  of  1781  and  1789,  and  if  he  had,  the 
House  would  perhaps  have  been  able  to  com- 
pare them  with  that  now  proposed,  and  arrive 
at  some  definite  conclusion  which  might  after 
all  have  been  that  ours,  as  now  proposed,  is 
that  which  promises  best  to  secure  freedom  to 
those  who  are  to  live  under  it,  and  stability 
for  the  political    condition   of   our  country. 
With    respect    to  the    Swiss   Confederation, 
however  well  it  may  be  considered  to  have 
worked,  it  is  a  fact  that  within  our  own  time 
a  civil  war  has  existed  among  the  cantons, 
and  that  republic  has  been  upon  the  brink  of 
destruction.       As  regards  the  Dutch  repub- 
lic, it   is   a   matter   of  history   how    it   fell. 
During    the    whole    of  its  s^ggle    against 
PuiLiP  II.,  the  provinces  comprising  it  never 
had  that  centralized  power  which  is  necessary 
to  the  stability  of  a  goverament,  especially  one 
assailed  by    enemies    from   without,   for  two 
provinces,   Guelderland    and    Overyssel,  con- 
tributed nothing  all  that   contest  through — 
each    standing  upon    its  state    rights — while 
among  the  remaining  five,  by  far  the  largest 
proportion  was  contributed  by  the  one  Prov- 
ince of  Holland.     The  natural  result  was  that 
the   republic  fell,    and  became  a   monarchy. 
The  same  evil  lay  at  the  root  of  the  American 
Constitution  of  1781,  and  after  it  iiad  been 
adopted,  so  ill  concerted  and  disunited  were  the 
efi'ortsof  the  thirteeu  btates,  that  the  arrange- 
ment would  not  work   at  all,  .so  that  Cioneral 
W.\suiN(JT().N  was  obliged  to  ask  for  and  actu- 
ally obtained  dictatorial  powers,  t<»  enable  liiui 
to  carry  on  the  cont<;st  against  Great  Britain. 
The  dilhrulties  between   the  North    and  the 
South  which  now  prevail,  !irose  wholly  upon 
the  (juestion  of  8tat<'  right,s,  and  had  provisions 
existed  in  the  Constitution  of  thtt  American 


75 


Union,  similar  to  those  wMch  it  is  proposed  to 
introduce  into  ours,  the  probability  is  the 
States  would  have  remained  united.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But  the  hon.  member  said  further 
that  the  scheme  has  taken  the  country  by  sur- 
prise. Now,  I  really  beg  to  ask  whether  there 
is  any  foundation  for  such  a  statement?  I 
most  deliberately  say  that  there  is  not.  It 
must  be  well  known  to  hon.  members  that  the 
late  Chief  Justice  Sewell,  who  enjoyed  the 
friendship  of  the  Duke  of  Kent,  the  father  of 
Her  Majesty  the  Queen,  so  far  back  as  1814, 
addressed  a  letter  to  the  noble  Duke,  recom- 
mending an  union,  for  this  fact  is  adverted  to 
in  Lord  Durham's  report  on  the  affairs  of 
the  British  North  American  Provinces.  Some 
ten  or  twelve  years  before  even  that,  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Uniacke,  of  Nova  Scotia,  had  made  a 
similar  suggestion,  and  from  time  to  time, 
since  then,  the  importance  and  desirability  of 
the  project  has  been  openly  advocated  by  lead- 
ing public  men  in  all  the  colonies.  Amongst 
others,  I  may  mention  Archdeacon  Strachan, 
the  present  venerable  and  Right  Reverend 
Bishop  of  Toronto,  whose  enlightened  opin- 
ions upon  great  public  questions,  have  always 
commanded  the  utmost  respect,  and  who, 
writing  to  Mr.  Charles  Bulwer,  the  able 
Secretary  of  Lord  Durham,  in  1838,  ex- 
pressed himself  as  follows : — 

I  have  only  to  add  that  it  will  be  a  pleasure  to 
me  to  contribute  everything  in  my  power  to  the 
prosperous  issue  of  Lord  Durham's  Administra- 
tion ;  and  if  Mr.  Pitt  considered  the  Constitution 
which  he  conferred  upon  the  Canadas  one  of  the 
glories  of  his  life,  what  glory  must  redound  to 
the  statesmen  who  give  a  free  Constitution  to  the 
British  North  American  colonies,  and  by  consoli- 
dating them  into  one  territory  or  kingdom,  exalts 
them  to  a  nation  acting  in  unity,  and  under  the 
protection  of  the  British  Government ;  and  thus 
not  only  ensuring  their  happiness,  but  preventing 
for  ever  the  sad  consequences  that  might  arise 
from  a  rival  power  getting  possession  of  their 
shores. 

Then  it  was  formally  presented  and  recom- 
mended in  Lord  Durham's  remarkable  report 
on  Canada  and  British  North  America  gener- 
ally, so  often  quoted  as  a  high  authority,  and 
only  yesterday  by  the  honorable  member  him- 
self. Well,  what  did  that  distinguished  noble- 
man say  on  the  subject.     He  said  : — 

How  inseparably  connected  I  found  the  inter' 
esta  of  Your  Majesty's  Provinces  in  North  America, 
to  what  degree  I  met  with  common  disorders,  re" 
quiring  common  remedies,  is  an  important  topic, 
which  it  will  be  my  duty  to  discuss  very^fuUy  be- 
fore closing  this  report. 

Again—  On  my  first  arrival  in  Canada,  I  was 


strongly  inclined  to  the  project  of  a  Federal  union, 
and  it  was  with  such  a  plan  in  view  that  I  dis- 
cussed a  general  measure  for  the  government  of 
the  colonies  with  the  deputations  from  the  Lower 
Provinces,  and  with  various  leading  individuals 
and  public  bodies  in  both  the  Canadas. 

But  I  had  still  more  strongly  impressed  on  me 
the  great  advantage  of  an  united  government,  and 
I  was  gratified  by  finding  the  leading  minds  of  the 
various  colonies  strongly  and  generally  inclined  to 
a  scheme  that  would  elevate  their  countries  into 
something  like  a  national  existence. 

Lord  Durham,  after  expressing  his  opinion 
in  the  report  as  on  the  whole  in  favor  of  the 
Legislative  Union,  and  referring  to  the  influ- 
ence of  the  United  States  as  surrounding  us 
on  every  side,  goes  on  to  say  : — 

If  we  wish  to  prevent  the  extension  of  this  in- 
fluence, it  can  only  be  done  by  raising  up  tor  the 
North  American  Colonist  some  nationality  of  his 
own,  by  elevating  these  small  and  unimportant 
communities  into  a  society  having  some  objects 
of  a  national  importance,  and  by  thus  giving  their 
inhabitants  a  country  which  they  will  be  unwilling 
to  see  absorbed  even  into  one  more  powerful. 

An  union  for  common  defence  against  foreign 
enemies  is  the  natural  bond  of  connection  that 
holds  together  the  great  communities  of  the 
world,  and  between  no  parts  of  any  kingdom  or 
state  is  the  necessity  for  such  an  union  more 
obvious  than  between  the  whole  of  these  colonies. 

The  whole  of  this  branch  of  this  remarkable 
report  on  the  subject  of  an  union  of  the 
British  American  Provinces  should  be  read 
by  every  man  in  the  several  provinces,  the 
arguments  in  its  favor  are  so  able  and  so 
unanswerable.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  will  honestly 
say,  as  many  others  have  said  before  me,  that 
if  it  could  have  been  attained,  I  would  have 
preferred  a  Legislative  Union,  but  it  is  well 
understood  that  Lower  Canada  would  never 
have  agreed  to  it. 

Hon.  Sir  B.  P.  T ACHE— Nor  the  Lower 
Provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — Nor,  as  my  honorable 
and  gallant  friend  the  Premier  states,  would 
the  Lower  Provinces  have  consented  to  it. 
He  may  well  be  supposed  to  know,  for  he  was 
in  the  Conference,  presiding  over  its  delibera- 
tions, and  had  the  very  best  opportunity  of 
ascertaining  the  opinions  of  the  delegates. 
(Hear.)  But  coming  down  to  later  times — 
the  times  so  well  described  by  the  hon. 
Premier  in  his  excellent  speech — when  diffi- 
culties between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
began  to  thicken,  the  Hon.  Mr.  Galt  brought 
up  the  scheme  of  Colonial  Federation  as  the 
best  mode  of  overcoming  those  difficulties, 
and  made  a  most  able  speech  on  the  subject  in 
his  place  in   Parliament.     Subsequently,  in 


70 


1858,  that  honorable  minister  entered  the 
Government  with  the  express  understanding 
that  the  question  would  be  dealt  with.  It 
is  well  known  that  he  carried  his  point  so  far, 
that  the  subject  was  alluded  to  at  the  close  of 
the  session  of  1858,  in  the  Speech  of  Sir 
E.  Head,  the  Governor  General,  and  com- 
munication with  the  Imperial  Government  for 
permission  to  negotiate  with  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces on  the  subject  was  then  undertaken. 
Shortly  after  this,  three  members  of  the  Gov- 
ernment, \t[z.,  Hon.  Messrs.  Cartier,  Galt, 
and  myself,  went  to  England,  and  on  the  25th 
of  October,  1858,  we  laid  our  request  before 
the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonies,  Sir 
E.  B.  Lytton,  but  difficulties,  not  of  our 
creation,  intervened  and  caused  delay — Lord 
Derby's  Government  was  defeated,  and 
the  matter  continued  in  abeyance.  To  say, 
in  the  face  of  the  facts  I  have  stated,  that 
the  project  is  unknown  and  has  taken  the 
country  by  surprise,  is  to  say  what  is 
not  the  case.  Even  last  year  it  was  dis- 
tinctly referred  to  in  His  Excelency's 
Speech  at  the  close  of  the  Session,  and  Hon. 
Messrs.  Brown,  McDougall  and  Mowat 
entered  the  Government  with  the  express 
understanding  that  negociations  were  to  ensue 
to  bring  about  the  proposed  Federation. 
Hon.  Messrs.  Brown  and  Mowat  went 
back  to  their  constituents  and  were  re-elected 
by  acclamation,  and  although  Hon.  Mr. 
McDougall  was  defeated,  he  too  was  su]> 
sequently  elected  for  another  constituency  by 
acclamation, 
ing  decried 


have   acted, 
patriotism, 
as  surprise 


These  gentlemen,  instead  of  be- 
and  assailed  for  the  part  they 
should  be  honored  for  their 
There  has  been  no  such  thing 
The  resolutions  were  sent  to  all 
the  members  of  the  Legislature  shortly  after 
they  were  fully  settled  ui)on,  and  even  before 
that  the  plan  was  published  in  all  the  news- 
papers of  the  province,  and  1  am  at  a  loss  to 
know  how  it  could  have  been  made  more  pub- 
lic. It  is  true  the  Opposition  have  not  held 
public  meetings  to  consider  or  object  to  the 
scheme,  but  the  reason  of  this  is,  that  the 
majority  in  its  favor  is  so  enormously  large 
that  they  did  not  venture  to  do  so.  (^Hear.) 
The  next  piece  of  disingenunusne.ss  on  the 
part  of  the  honorable  inenibcr  was  in  stating 
the  military  power  oi"  the  Lower  J'roviuccs  at 
65,000  fighting  nK-n,  or  in  limit  ing  to  that 
number  tlie  men  competent  lor  military  ser- 
vice— 

Hon.  Mii.CURRIE— ^'o;  1  said  128,000. 
of  whom  05,000  only  were  available,  the  rest 
being  engaged  on  the  water. 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— \NTiy  did  not  the  hon- 
orable member  candidly  state  their  census 
population,  which  at  this  time  cannot  be  much 
short  of  a  million  souls  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— With  the  per- 
mission of  the  honorable  member  I  will  state 
the  result  of  my  experience  in  this  matter.  I 
have  been  for  some  time  attached  to  the 
Adjutant  General's  office,  where  I  had  the 
opportunity  of  examining  the  particularly  cor- 
rect returns  of  the  Militia  for  Lower  Canada, 
and  it  always  appears  that  out  of  a  given 
population  of  both  sexes  the  one-fifth  part 
shews  the  exact  number  of  men,  between  the 
ages  of  18  and  60,  fit  for  military  duty.  This 
is  the  case  all  the  world  over.  The  law  is  Jis 
uniform  as  that  which  determines  the  relative 
numbers  of  the  two  sexes;  in  all  Christian 
countries  the  males  being  21  and  a  fraction  to 
20  females,  while  in  countries  where  polygamy 
exists  the  case  is  exactly  reversed,  the  females 
being  21  and  a  fraction,  and  the  males  20.  I 
have  verified  the  fact  that  one-fifth  of  our 
population  shows  the  correct  number  of  militia- 
men, and  if  the  honorable  member  (Hon.  Mr. 
Currie)  will  apply  to  the  Adjutant  General 
he  will  find  it  was  so. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  have  taken  the 
figures  as  furnished  by  a  colleague  of  the 
honorable  member. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Then  my  col- 
league must  be  in  contradiction  with  myself. 
The  number  of  militia-inen  in  Upper  Canada, 
by  the  last  census,  was  280,000,  which,  multi- 
plied by  5,  gives  the  population,  with  a  few  to 
spare. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — I  think  it  is  now  unne- 
cessary for  me  to  say  anything  else  on  this 
subject,  as  the  honorable  member  has  been 
fully  answered  by  my  honorable  IViend  the 
Premier.  All  that  1  need  add  is  that  accord- 
ing to  the  rule  now  stated,  the  million  of 
Houls  in  the  Lower  Provinces  would  produce 
200,000  instead  of  05,000  men,  all  capable  of 
bearing  arms,  those  employed  on  the  water 
being  as  liable  to  serve  as  tliose  employed  on 
the  land.  I  tiust  we  shall  never  ro(|uire  to 
muster  our  fighting  men  from  any  p;irl  of  the 
proposed  Confederation ;  but  the  best  preven- 
tative of  danger  is  preparedness  to  meet  it. 
(llt'ar.)  The  hotutrable  member  next  came 
to  the  question  of  the  IntorcoloniiU  Railway, 
wliieh  after  all  seems  to  be  his  great  j)oeuliar 
horror — the  great  })illnr  which  overshadows 
and  ojtpresses  him.  Well,  I  will  turn  again 
to  jjord  J>iiuia.m'8  report,  in  which  the  fol- 
lowing passage,  remarkably  apposite  to  the 
subject,  appcorg: — 


77 


The  completion  of  any  satisfactory  commu- 
nication between  Halifax  and  Quebec  would,  in 
fact,  produce  relations  between  these  provinces 
that  would  render  a  general  union  absolutely 
necessary.  Several  surveys  proved  that  a  railway 
■would  be  perfectly  practicable  the  whole  way. 
******  The  formation  of  a  railroad 
from  Halifax  to  Quebec  would  entirely  alter  some 
of  the  distinguishing  characteristics  of  the  Cana- 
das.  Instead  of  being  shut  out  from  all  direct 
intercourse  with  England  during  half  the  year, 
they  would  possess  a  far  more  certain  and  speedy 
communication  throughout  the  winter  than  they 
now  possess  in  summer. 

This  passage  greatly  impressed  the  public 
men  of  the  day  —  the  Lafontaine-Bald- 
WIN  Administration — in  which  Mr.  Hincks 
and  the  honorable  Premier  each  had  a 
place.  It  was  under  them  that  the  railway 
legislation  of  the  province  received  its  first 
impulse,  and  last  session  I  remember  to  have 
had  occasion  to  quote  the  preamble  of  an  act 
passed  in  1851,  which  recites: — 

That,  whereas  it  is  of  the  highest  importance 
to  the  progress  and  welfare  of  this  province,  that 
a  Main  Trunk  line  of  railway  should  be  made 
thnughout  the  length  thereof,  and  from  the 
eastern  frontier  thereof  through  the  provinces  of 
New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia  to  the  city  and 
port  of  Halifax;  and  it  is  therefore  expedient 
that  every  effort  should  be  made  to  ensure  the 
construction  of  such  railway. 

The  second  clause  of  the  act 

Authorizes  the  Government,  for  the  time 
being,  to  negotiate  with  the  Imperial  Government 
and  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia,  for  the 
construction  of  the  line,  and  to  bargain  therefor ; 
the  funds  to  be  obtained  under  Imperial  guarantee. 

This  act,  honorable  gentlemen,  is  still  in 
force,  and  from  the  time  of  its  passing  there  has 
always  been  an  anxiety  among  the  public  men 
of  Canada  to  accomplish  the  construction  of  a 
railway  to  Halifax.  All  our  governments, 
without  exception,  have  felt  in  the  same  way, 
and  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Administration 
took  steps  towards  such  an  end.  But  the 
difficulties  wliich  followed  stopped  further  pro- 
gress, and,  in  fact,  had  almost  stopped  legisla- 
tion altogether.  Now,  however,  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Brown  himself  has  made  the  constmction  of 
this  railway  a  part  of  the  proposed  Constitu- 
tion, and  has  said,  at  a  gi-eat  meeting  in  To- 
ronto, that  if  the  project  contained  half-a-dozen 
intercolonial  railways  he  would  go  for  them  all. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  feel  morally  certain  that  if 
the  subject  were  ffdrly  discussed  in  every  town 
in  Upper  Canada,  nine-tenths  of  the  people 
would  go  heartily  for  it.  Indeed,  the  railway 
is  absolutely  necessary  and  we  cannot  do 
without  it.     Upper  Canada  alone,  not  to  speak 


of  Lower  Canada  at  all,  requires  it,  and  so 
well  is  this  understood  in  the  Lower  Provinces 
that  an  opponent  of  the  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley — 
Hon.  Mr.  Smith — ^has  lately  said  it  was  quite 
unnecessary  for  New  Brunswick  to  spend  any 
money  on  the  work,  as  Upper  Canada  must 
build  it  for  its  own  sake.  As  to  the  cost  of 
this  road,  which  has  been  so  greatly  exaggera- 
ted, Mr.  Brydges,  who  must  be  supposed  to 
know  something  about  the  matter,  has  offered, 
on  behalf  of  an  English  company,  to  under- 
take the  construction  of  the  line  for  £3,500,000 
sterling.  Everybody  knows  how  much  that 
is,  and  when  reciprocity  is  gone,  Upper 
Canada  will  do  well  to  build  the  road  on  its 
own  account,  if  all  the  other  provinces  refuse. 
They  will  however  not  refuse,  for  the  line  is 
equally  necessary  for  Lower  Canada  and  the 
other  provinces,  and  it  is  a  great  advantage  to 
all  parties  that  it  should  be  so.  New  Bruns- 
wick requires  it  to  open  up  its  rich  interior 
country  which  contains,  as  I  have  learned  from 
advance  reports  of  subordinate  surveying  en- 
gineers, some  of  the  finest  lands  in  the  world. 
Hahfax  wants  it,  in  order  to  bring  freight  to 
her  great  seaport  when  those  of  Quebec  and 
Montreal  are  closed.  It  should  have  been 
commenced  three  years  ago,  and  if  it  had  it 
would  now  be  built,  and  we  should  have  heard 
nothing  about  the  abolition  of  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member 
then  asked  why,  since  there  was  to  be  a  disso- 
lution and  an  appeal  to  the  people  of  New 
Brunswick  on  the  subject,  there  should  not  be 
one  in  Canada?  The  answer  to  that  has  al- 
ready been  given.  The  term  of  Parliament 
would  have  expired  in  that  province  on  the 
1st  of  June,  and  as  the  members  would  then 
have  had  to  go  to  their  constituents  to  give  an 
account  of  their  conduct  during  the  previous 
four  years,  it  was  thought  better  to  anticipate 
the  time  of  its  dissolution  by  three  or  four 
months.  In  Nova  Scotia  and  Newfoundland, 
however,  where  the  elections  were  more 
recent,  there  are  to  be  no  elections.  I  will 
add  that  this  mode  of  appealing  to  the  people 
is  not  British  but  American,  as  under  the 
British  system  the  representatives  of  the  peo- 
ple in  Parliament  are  presumed  to  be  compe- 
tent to  decide  all  the  public  questions  submit- 
ted to  them.  When  the  unions  between  Eng- 
land and  Scotland,  and  between  England  and 
Ireland  were  effected,  there  were  no  appeals  to 
the  people,  it  being  assumed  that  the  people's 
chosen  representatives  were  quite  competent  to 
judge  of  the  measures.  (Hear,  hear.)  Yet 
the  members  who  have  recently  gone  to  the 
country  have  found  public  opinion  to  be  de- 


78 


cidedly  in  favor  of  tte  project.  One  honorable 
member  (Hon.  Mr.  Macpherson)  who  repre- 
sents 130,000  souls,  has  told  the  House  that 
he  has  held  meetings  aU  over  the  vast  Division 
for  which  he  sits,  and  that  in  every  case  he 
has  explained  the  subject  to  them  without 
finding  a  single  person  to  oppose  it.  (Hear.) 
The  honorable  member  for  Niagara  also  said, 
that  the  project  has  been  unfairly  brought  down. 
Now,  I  contend  that  it  was  brought  down  in 
the  only  way  in  which  it  could  be  submitted 
to  us  or  to  the  people.  Such  a  censure  as  this 
is  beyond  ray  comprehension,  and  it  has  cer- 
tainly not  been  shewn  to  my  satisfaction,  nor 
I  should  imagine,  to  that  if  any  body  else,  in 
what  the  unfairness  consists.  (Hear.)  Next 
the  honorable  member  attacked  the  financial 
terms  of  the  scheme,  and  rolled  up  a  mass  of 
figures  which  I  strongly  suspected  the  honor- 
able member  himself  did  not  understand. 
(Hear,  and  laughter.)  The  Minister  of 
Finance  fully  and  lucidly  stated  the  case  last 
evening,  and  I  will  read  part  of  his  speech 
to  show  how  satisfactorily  the  matter  was 
explained.     Hon.  Mr,  Galt  said : 

With  reference  to  the  trade  of  this  country,  he 
had  taken  the  returns  of  1863.  The  returns  ot" 
the  trade  of  Cauada,  in  that  year,  taking  exports 
and  imports  conjointly,  showed  an  aggregate  of 
$87,795,000.  Taking  the  census  of  1861,  this 
trade  represented  thirty-five  dollars  per  head  of 
the  population.  The  value  of  the  import  and  ex- 
port trade  of  New  Brunswick,  for  the  same  year, 
reached  $16,729,680,  amounting  to  sixty-six  dol- 
lars per  head  of  its  population.  The  aggregate 
trade  of  Nova  Scotia,  for  the  same  period,  amount- 
ed to  $18,622,359,  or  fifty-six  dollars  per  head  of 
its  people.  And  in  the  case  of  Prince  Edward 
Island,  the  import  and  export  trade  amounted  to 
$3,055,568,  representing  thirty -seven  dollars  per 
head  of  the  population  of  that  colony.  The  value 
of  the  total  trade  of  Newfoundland  was  $1  .,245,- 
032,  or  eighiy-six  dollars  per  head.  The  whole 
of  these  figures  represented  an  aggregate  tnide  of 
all  the  provinces,  amounting  to  $137,447,567. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

With  respcQt  to  the  revenue  and  expenditure 
of  the  provinces,  I  find  a  succinct  statement  in 
the  speech  delivered  by  Mr.  Galt,  at  Sher- 
brooke,  as  follows : — 

Uoveiiuc.     Expenditure. 

Nova  Scotia $1,185,629     $1,072,274 

NewBruuswick 899,991  884,613 

Newfoundland  (1862.).         480,000  479,420 

Prince  Edward  island. .  197,384  171,718 

Canada 9,760,316     10,742,807 

Total,  186.S $12,523,320     13,350,832 

Total,  1864 14,22.3,320     13,350,832 

Estimated  Surplus,  18C4 If 872,488 


The  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  made  some 
admirable  remarks,  at  Sherbrooke,  with  refer- 
ence to  the  indebtedness  of  the  colonics,  where 
he  gave  to  a  public  meeting  the  following  table : 

Nova  Scotia (1863) $  4,858,547 

New  Brunswick "      5,702,991 

Newfoundland (1862) 946,000 

Prince  Edward  Island   240,673 


Total,  Maritime   Provinces $11,748,211 

Canada,  (1863) 67,263,994 

Grand  Total $79,012,205 

Reasoning  from  these  figures,  Mr.  Galt 
stated  that  the  debt  of  Canada  amounts  at  the 
present  time  to  about  $27  per  head,  and 
that  to  enter  into  an  equitable  arrangement 
with  the  other  provinces  where  the  debts 
were  about  $25  per  head  either  ours  had 
to  be  reduced  or  theirs  increased  ;  that 
is,  when  made  chargeable  to  the  Confed 
eration — and  as  the  former  is  the  preferable 
course,  the  surplus  or  excess  of  ours  over  $25 
per  head  has  to  be  locally  assumed  by  Ca- 
nada. He  also  explained  that  the  debts  of. 
Prince  Edward  Island  and  of  Newfoundland 
being  less  than  $25  per  head,  an  allowance 
had  to  be  made  to  them  to  place  them  ou 
an  equal  footing  with  the  rest  of  the  colonies. 
I  will  add,  for  the  information  of  the  honor- 
able member  for  Niagara,  the  following  official 
figures,  which  are  instructive  as  showing  that 
the  people  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  are  a 
people  who  contribute,  under  their  present  tar- 
iff's, a  considerable  sum  to  their  respective 
treasuries : 

DUTY   ON    IMPORTS    PBR   HEAD    (1863). 

Newfoundland $3.5.^ 

Nova  Scotia 2.40 

New  Brunswick 2,81 

Prince  Edward  Island 1.69 

Canada 1.85 

Looking  at  all  these  facts  together,  the  con- 
clusion appears  to  me  irresistible  that  the 
arrangement  proposed  is  in  every  respect  an 
equitable  one,  and  that  it  has  been  made  with 
a  view  to  give  to  each  province  as  nearly  as 
possible  what  is  right  and  fair,  as  far  jus  what 
is  right  could  be  discovered.  No  honorable 
member  could  wish  that  Canada  should  liave 
undue  advantages  over  the  other  parties  to  tlie 
compact.  Tlic  spirit  in  which  the  deliberations 
of  the  Conference  were  conducted  was  the 
correct  one,  and  had  its  niouibors  tried  to  over- 
reach each  other — had  tliey  not  boon  impressed 
with  the  necessity  of  mutual  concessions  for 
the  conmion  good — no  result  could  ever  havo 
been  arrived  at.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  next 
jKiint  the  honorablu  member  touclied  yitut  the 


79 


assets  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  he  asked 
very  emphatically  what  they  had  to  hring  into 
the  partnership.  He  said  we  had  our  valuable 
canals,  but  what  had  they  ?  Well,  they  have 
their  own  railways,  built  with  provincial  money. 
New  Brunswick  has  200  miles,  equal  in  value 
to  eight  millions  of  dollars  ;  and  Nova  Scotia 
150  miles  or  thereabouts,  equal  to  about  six 
millions  of  dollars — though  I  am  not  sure  of 
the  exact  extent. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUKRIE— What  do  they  pay? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — What  do  our  canals 
pay  ?  That,  however,  is  not  the  question ;  our 
canals  are  assets  and  valuable  assets  too,  even 
though  they  do  not  pay  much  directly,  for  they 
cheapen  transport  to  an  extraordinary  extent. 
I  remember  the  time  when  the  freight  of  a 
barrel  of  flour  from  Toronto  to  Montreal  cost 
one  dollar,  and  now  it  is  lOd;  and  one  cwt.  of 
merchandize  brought  back  also  cost  one  dollar 
then,  but  now  only  Is.  It  is  in  this  way  that 
great  public  works  are  valuable  to  a  country. 
As  to  the  earnings  of  the  Lower  Province 
railways,  the  net  profits — not  the  gross  receipts 
—are  stated,  I  believe,  at  $140,000  ;  $70,000 
in  New  Brunswick,  and  $70,000  in  Nova  Sco- 
tia, which,  at  any  rate,  is  something.  The 
Welland  Canal,  of  which  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman spoke  so  much,  did  not  pay  even  the 
interest  on  its  cost ;  and  if  the  canal  on  the 
American  side  of  the  Niagara  is  constructed, 
as  we  learn  from  the  American  press  it  is  to 
be,  the  chief  source  of  its  revenue  will  be  cut 
off,  and  so  far  from  being  the  best  of  the  canals 
in  a  paying  point  of  view,  it  wUl  be  the  worst 
of  all  those  connected  with  the  St.  Lawrence 
navigation.  Let  me  not  be  understood,  how- 
ever, as  depreciating  the  value  of  the  Welland 
Canal.  None  is  more  ready  than  I  am  to 
admit  that  its  construction  was  wise,  and  that 
it  has  proved  and  will  continue  to  prove  bene- 
ficial in  the  highest  degree.  (Hear.)  The 
honorable  member,  living  as  he  does  on  the 
vei-y  banks  of  the  WeUand  Canal,  very  natur- 
ally asked  how  the  canals  are  to  be  enlarged  ? 
Well,  they  will  be  the  property  of  the  General 
Government,  and  when  the  trade  requires  it, 
that  Government  will,  no  doubt,  appropriate 
money  for  the  work.  (Hear.)  As  to  local 
taxation,  all  the  provinces  will  be  put  upon  the 
same  footing,  and  nothing  can  be  fairer.  If 
Upper  Canada,  which  it  is  asserted  is  so 
much  wealthier  than  the  other  portions  of 
the  Confederation,  requires  more  than  the 
eighty  cents  per  head  allowed  to  all  the 
provinces,  its  greater  wealth  will  cause  it 
feel  the  taxation  so  much  the  less.  (Hear.) 
The  honorable  member  next  attacked  the  pro- 


posed constitution  of  the  Legislative  Council, 
and  insisted  not  only  that  it  should  have  re- 
mained  elective,   but   that  the   principle   of 
representation  according  to  population  should 
also  have  prevailed.     But  who  ever  heard  that 
in  a  Federal  Constitution  the  Upper  House 
should  be  arranged   on   that  principle?     If 
that  view  be  the  sound  one,  the  better  way 
would  be  to  have  but  one  House,  for  the  only 
effect  of  having  two  Houses,  both  elected  on  the 
basis  of  population,  would  be  that  one  would 
constantly  be  combating  the  other,  and  the 
wheels  of  government  would  unavoidably  be 
brought  to  a  stand-still.     In  such  a  case  the 
more   powerful  members  of  the  Confederacy 
would  be  wholly  unrestrained,  and  would  com- 
pletely  overwhelm   the   weaker.       This  was 
fully  considered  on  the  adoption  of  a  Constitu- 
tion for  the  United  States,  according  to  which 
it  is  well  known  that  the  smaller  States   are 
represented  in  the  Senate  by  the  same  number 
of  senators  as  the  larger  ones — there  being  two 
members  for  each.     The  same  principle  has 
been  adopted  in  arranging  the  terms  of  this 
proposed  union,  and  for  the  same  reason;  viz.,. 
to  protect  the  weaker  parties  to  the  compact. 
(Hear.)     The  next  point  referred  to  by  the 
honorable   member  related  to   the   Common 
Schools  and  the  fund  proposed  to  be  created 
by  the  Act  of  1849,  but  as   the  honorable 
member  has  been  informed,  one  of  its  pro- 
visions, that  relating  to  this  fund,  has  never 
been  carried  out ;  with  respect  to  the  other, 
my   honorable   friend   the    Commissioner   of 
Crown    Lands    has   already   explained    that 
the  million  of  acres  have  been  set  apart  and 
a  fund   year  by  year  created,  while  Parlia- 
ment has  annually  set  apart  about  $100,000 
for  the  support  of  the  schools.     Upper  Canada 
then  has  suffered  no  injustice  in  this.    (Hear.) 
The  honorable  member  at  last  concluded  his 
remarks  by  drawing  a  sorry   picture  of  the 
condition  of  Canada.     According  to  him,   it 
was  about  bankrupt  when  a  number  of  self- 
appointed    delegates    met    and    devised    this 
scheme   for   its  further   embarrassment.     So 
far  from  this  being  the  case,  it  is  a  matter 
of  history  that  the  Government  was  formed 
expressly  for  the  purpose  of  considering  and 
framing  this  very  scheme,  and  getting  rid  of 
the  dead-locks  which  have  so  injuriously  affected 
the  legislation  of  the  country.     It  appeared 
that  by  the  time  the  honorable  member  came 
to  this  part  of  his  speech  he  became  so  excited 
that   he   hardly   knew  what  he  was   saying. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  will  conclude  by  reading  an 
extract  from  a  remarkable  speech  delivered  by 
His  Honor  the  Speaker  (the  Honorable  U.  J. 


80 


Tessier)  at  a  public  meeting  held  in  Quebec 
in  1858,  when  the  three  delegates  were  iu 
England  pressing  for  Confederation.  It  is 
as  follows : — 

In  1849  and  1H.')2  there  were  passed  acts  of 
ojv  Provincial  P;iiliameut  to  give  some  kind  of 
guarantee  for  the  construction  of  this  (the  Inter- 
colonial) Railway.  As  a  member  of  the  Canadian 
Legislature,  I  pledge  my  best  support  to  help 
this  enterprise,  and  as  to  the  Canadian  natioiuility, 
distinct  from  the  English  or  French  nationality, 
composed  of  the  best  qualit'es  of  both,  to  which 
allusion  has  been  made,  I  share  in  this  sentiment, 
and  I  hope  to  see  growing  a  Canadian  Empire  in 
North  America,  formed  by  a  Federal  Union  of  all 
the  colonies  connected  and  linked  together  by 
this  Intercolonial  Railway,  that  may  hold  a  posi- 
tion able  to  counterbalance  the  ;jrasping  power 
of  the  United  .States  on  ih  s  continent. 

I  refer  to  this  able  speech  to  show  the  en- 
lightened views  which  that  honorable  member 
held  on  the  subject,  in  common  with  many 
other  distinguished  public  men.  I  have  now 
done  with  the  speech  of  the  honorable  member 
for  Niagara,  and  will  only  say  further  that  I  hope 
the  important  subject  before  the  House  will 
be  fully  and  completely  discussed,  so  that  the 
fine  merits  of  the  scheme  may  be'thoroughly 
understood.  I  know  it  wilT  be  discussed 
calmly,  with  mutual  forbearance  and  kindness, 
and  with  the  excellent  dispositions  which  hon- 
orable gentlemen  usually  bring  to  the  consi- 
deration of  the  matters  submitted  I'or  their 
judgment.  (Hear,  hear,  and  applause.)  I 
feel  satisfied  that  after  such  discussion  the 
House  will  complete  its  share  of  this  great 
work  by  assenting  to  the  resolutions  submitted 
for  its  approval.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ALEXANDER  said— lam  sure 
that  the  members  of  the  Government  desire 
that  this  great  question  should  be  freely  and 
fully  discussed — I  am  sure  they  will  be  glad 
to  see  any  members  of  this  House  frankly 
state  wherein  they  conceived  any  of  its  details 
to  be  defective — I  am  sure  that  the  suggestions 
by  the  honorable  gentlemen  who  represent  the 
divisions  of  Victoria  and  Wellingtim  will  be 
duly  weigiicd  by  tlie  present  Administration, 
as  any  other  suggestions  made  in  tlie  sj)irit  to 
acjcomplish  good.  But  some  members  in  both 
branches  of  the  Legislature  appear  to  be  op- 
posed to  the  Conftideration  schenic!  in  tali). — 
They  hold  that  the  constitutional  changes  pro- 
posed are  unwise,  and  are  fraught  with  g\-cat 
evil.  Tin;  lioinirable  member  for  Niagara  Di- 
vision (Hon.  Mr.  Cl'RIUE)  appears  to  be  of 
that  number,  from  tlio  very  strong  a])peal 
which  lie  lias  made  to  this  Houise  Hgain.'<t  the 
whole  measure,  and  1  dcsiv«  to  reply  to  bomc 


of  the  arguments  which  he  pressed,  no  doubt 
with  very  great  force  and  ability,"  upon  our 
attention.  He  objectfi  to  the  whole  manner  in 
which  the  Convention  was  formed  ;  he  has  no 
faith  whatever  in  the  result  of  their  delibera- 
tions. He  maintains,  in  the  boldest  manner, 
that  tlie  proposed  union  will  be  found  disad- 
vantageous and  burdensome  to  all  the  provinces 
uniting.  He  produced  figures,  prepared  be- 
forehand, to  show  that  our  burdens  will  be 
increased  to  the  extent  of  at  least  $3,000,000 
per  annum — an  increase  which  will  be  found 
oppressive  to  the  industry  of  the  province  of 
Canada.  I  cannot  understand  from  what 
source  he  has  obtained  his  figures  to  arrive  at 
such  a  conclusion.  There  is  no  difficulty  in 
our  being  able  to  form  a  reliable  idea  as  to 
the  future  financial  position  of  the  proposed 
federal  and  local  governments.  If  we  make 
an  estimate  of  the  whole  revenue  of  those 
provinces  from  their  financial  returns,  taking 
the  basis  of  1803,  we  find  that  there  will  be  a 
net  revenue,  available  for  the  purposes  of  the 
General  Government,  after  paying  the  subsidy 
of  eighty  cents  per  head  to  the  local  govern- 
ments, amounting  to  the  sum  of  S9,G43,108, 
while  we  are  justified  in  assuming  that  the 
ordinary  expenditure  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment will  not  exceed  §9,000,000.  But,  of 
course,  there  are  always  certain  grants  which 
are  not  classed  under  ordinary  expenditure, 
and  we  shall  have  to  provide  for  the  Intercol- 
onial Railway,  and  the  widening  and  deepen- 
ing of  the  St.  Lawrence  canals;  and  suppose 
that  we  allow  the  very  liberal  item  of  §25,000,- 

000  for  those  great  objects,  it  will  be  admit- 
ted on  all  sides  that  we  shall  be  enabled  to 
obtain  this  amount  under  the  Imperial  Guar- 
antee at  four  per  cent.,  thus  throwing  upon  the 
federal  treasury  the  additional  annual  burden 
or  charge  of  §1,000,000,  which  we  may,  with 
perfect  right,  say  will  be  met  in  tlie  following 
manner.  It  can  be  clearly  shewn  that  it  reste 
entirely  with  tmrselves,  whether  we  cannot 
meet  all  the  claims  of  ordinary  expenditure 
and  interest  on  the  I'ederal  debt  with  the 
amount,  already  named,  of  §9,(>43,108  ;  while 

1  am  sure  that  most  commercial  men  will  allow 
that,  with  the  power  whicli  we  shall  have  of 
imposing  uniform  t;iriff  and  e.>cciso  duties 
throughout  the  whole  united  territory  of  these 
united  provinces,  we  sliall  raise  sufiicient  ad- 
ditional revenue  to  meet  this  large  item.  But 
as  I  have,  on  a  former  ocea.slon,  said,  we  must 
inaugurate  tiic  d.iwu  of  our  infant  national  ca- 
reer with  the  utmost  care  and  prudruce.  All 
jobbery  and  lavish  exjH'nditure  must  be  care- 
fully avoided;  and  il'  w«  do  so,  1  venture  to 


81 


proptesy  tliat  tlie  anticipations  of  my  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara  will  never  be  realized.    I 
venture  to  say,  in  the  face  of  all  his  evil  fore- 
bodings of  increased  burdens  and  debt,  that  we 
shall  find  our  position  greatly  improved.     He 
appeared  in  the  delivery  of  his  able  and  power- 
ful  speech,  very   desirous  to   make  out  the 
strongest  possible   case,  raking  up  even  the 
public  condemnation  of  the  Provincial  Secre- 
tary at  the  famous  Harrington  meeting.  I  was 
one  of  those  who  voted  against  Mr.  Scott's 
Separate  School  Bill,  valuing,  in  common  with 
the  earnest  electors  at  Harrington,  our  noble 
school  system  of  Upper  Canada,  which  carries 
the   blessings   of   education   throughout  the 
width  and  breadth  of  the  land  ;  but  the  peo- 
ple generally  are  not  prepared  to  reject  the 
proposed  Confederation,  because  of  the  po- 
sition of  that  question,  although  there  are  in- 
dividual electors  who  hare  strong  convictions 
on  the  subject.      My  honorable  friend  also 
dwells  upon  the  amount  which  will  require  to  be 
appropriated  for  the  militia.     He  appears  to 
think  that  soldiers  can  be  formed  by  magical 
influence  in  a  day,  and  to  effect  a  small  saving 
he  would  elect  to  leave  this  magnificent  ter- 
ritory, with  its  valuable  homesteads,  exposed 
to  be  swept  at  any  moment  by  a  ruthless  ag- 
gressor ;  or  should  not  mind  that  our  Canadian 
people  should  run  the  risk  of  being  subjected 
to  share  the  liability  of  three  thousand  mil- 
lions of  debt,  in  addition  to  their  own  burdens. 
The  great  body  of  the  people  of  Upper  Can- 
ada have  great  faith  in  the  expansion   and 
growth  of  a  young  country  such  as  this.  (Hear, 
hear.)     They   do  not  forget  the  remarkable 
fact,  that  after  experiencing  a  large  deficiency 
in  the  revenue  of  the  eountry  for  several  years, 
with  als©,   in  addition,  two   very  indifferent 
haiTests,  we  are  in  a  position  to  announce  a 
considerable  surplus  of  revenue  at  this  mo- 
ment; and  we  look  forward  to  this  consolida- 
tion of  other  great  interests,  full  of  hope,  that 
it  will  give  us  a  higher  standing  in  the  world 
— that  it  will  give  a  great  impetus  to  the 
growth  of  our  population,  our  commerce  and 
our  revenue ;  and  if  the  expenditure   to  be 
made   on    those  great   public  improvements 
should  swell  the  debt,  we  shall  find  ourselves 
in  a  condition  of  such  prosperity  that  it  will 
fall  hghtly  upon  us.     There  are  so  many  con- 
spiring circumstances  to  make  us  regard  this 
great  scheme  with  favor,  the  offspring,  as  it 
is  presented  to  us,  of  the  large  expeiience  and 
matured  judgment  of  the  political  leaders  of 
all  these  provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)     We  may 
venture  to  accept  it  and  give  it  a  fair  trial  as 
the  best  solution  of  the  difficulties  we  have  ex- 

12 


perienced  in  working  out  our  present  Legisla- 
tive Union.     It  is  very  true  that  we  have  all 
opposed  until  now  the  construction  of  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway,  because  we  have  had  grave 
doubts  as  to  the  commercial  value  of   that 
work,  and  the  prospect  of  its  being  self-sus- 
taining ;  but  it  certainly   cannot  be   denied 
that  the  unfriendly  attitude  assumed  towards 
us  by  the  neighboring  republic  in  respect  to 
the  trade  relations  between  the  two  countries, 
makes    it    more    prudential   for   us   thus   to. 
secure  a  winter  road  to  the  great  highway 
of  the  world's  commerce — (hear,  hear) — and 
it  will  certainly  place  us  in  a  stronger  po- 
sition   to   negotiate   fair   and  just   terms   in 
a  renewal  or  modification  of  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty.     Whilst  that  public  work  is  accepted 
as  an  indispensable  part  of  the  scheme,  we  are 
glad  to  be  assured  by  the  members  of  the  Gov- 
ernment, that  the  deepening  and  widening  of 
the  St.  Lawrence  canals  will  be  carried  out 
simultaneously.     Good  cannot  fail  to  flow  from 
the  union  if  justice  is  thus  done  to  all  its  com- 
ponent parts.     As   regards   the   question  of 
finance,  the  proposition  to  assume  the  debts 
upon  a  certain  basis  on  the  one  hand,  and  to  im- 
pose a  uniform  tariff  on  the  other,  with  certain 
reasonable  stipulations,  is  perhaps  the  nearest 
approximation  to  dealing  out  common  justice 
to  all,  which  could  be  arrived  at,  with  so  many 
varied  interests  there  represented.     We  know 
that  our  own  delegates  contended,  as  we  now 
contend,  that  it  would  only  have  been  fair  and 
just  that  the  future  subsidy  to  be  paid  to  each 
province  of  eighty  cents  per  head  should  be 
based  upon  the  census  returns  to  be  made 
eveiy  ten  years.     But  this  is  not  thq^  moment 
to  enlarge  upon  this  point,  or  upon  those  da- 
tails,  to  which,  as  I  have  before  stated,  the 
great  body  of  my  constituents  take  exception, 
and  I  will  reserve  myself,  therefore,  until  we 
discuss  the  details  seriatim.     I  would  only,  in 
conclusion,  observe,  that  our  most  enlightened 
citizens  see  nothing  but  weakness  and  insecur- 
ity in  our  present  fragmentary  position,  while 
they  regard  the  proposed  union  as  calculated 
in  every  way  to  give  us  importance,  standing 
and  strength — improve  our  credit — inspire  a 
feeling  of  confidence  in  our  future,  and  bring 
emigration  to  our  shores.   If  we  can  look  back 
with  just  pride  to  our  giant  growth  during  the 
last  quarter  of   a  century,  so  may  we  enter 
upon    the  extended  relations   now    proposed 
full  of  hope,  that  with  an  accession  of  terri- 
tory, population  and  power — commencing  our 
career   with    a   volume    of    trade   exceeding 
§1.37,000,000,  with  such  boundless  resources 
to    develop,    and  a  country  capable   of   sus- 


82 


tttinicg  any  extent  of  population,  there  is  no 
barrier  to  our  extension  and  material  progress. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  nni.st  feel  that  Buch  a  field 
for  human  enterpri.se  and  such  a  position  is 
calculated  to  give  our  people  higher  aspira- 
tions, and  to  make  them  cherish  what  may  at 
th«  present  moment  be  pronounced  at  this 
stage  of  our  infancy  but  a  dream  ;  that  just 
as  the  Russian  Empire  extends  its  powerful 
Bway  from  the  Black  Sea  to  the  polar  regions, 
ISO  may  the  people  of  Briti.sh  North  America 
aspire  to  rai.se  up  a  great  Northern  Power 
upon  this  continent,  which  shall  be  distin- 
guished for  the  wisdom  and  stability  of  its 
institutions,  which  shall  emulate  the  parent 
countries  from  which  its  races  have  sprung,  in 
developing  their  manly  virtues,  and  in  difiusing 
the  blessings  of  a  higher  civilization  wherever 
its  population  may  flow.  (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  A'11)AL  said  he  cordially  agreed 
with  the  honorable  gentleman  who  had  spoken 
in  desiring  a  union  of  tho  provinces,  and  with 
the  Honorable  Premier  in  believing  that  if  such 
union  could  be  arranged  to  the  satisfaction  of  all 
the  parties  concerned,  it  ought  to  be  effected. 
Without  exactly  committing  himself  to  the 
opinion  of  the  Honorable  Premier  that  this 
country  was  upon  an  inclined  jjlane  which,  if 
the  proposed  scheme  of  Confederation  were 
rejected,  would  land  us  in  the  United  States, 
he  nevertheless  thought  that  the  arguments 
which  ho  had  advanced  to  demonstrate  the 
necessity  of  some  change  which  would  secure 
our  future  exemption  IVom  the  ditficulties 
by  which  we  were  now  beset  were  unanswered 
and  unaswerable.  Yet  he  was  obliged  to 
express  his  disapproval  of  the  manner  in  which 
the  scheme  had  been  submitted  to  Parliament, 
as  the  course  adopted  entirely  precluded  the 
Legislature  from  suggesting  any  improvement 
or  modification  ttf  its  details.  He  felt,  in 
common  with  all  other  honorable  members, 
tliat  tile  subject  was  one  of  vast  importance ; 
that  we  were  not  legislating  for  the  mere  pur- 
pose of  escaping  from  unjileasant  party  political 
difficulties,  but  fur  tho  sai'ety  and  prosperity 
of  our  country  and  tlie  welfare  of  our  children 
and  descendants,  and  therefore  could  not  agree 
with  the  honiiruble  member  for  Brock  (Hon. 
Mr.  Blair),  that  inunediate  action  was  neces- 
sary and  that  any  delay  was  dangerous.  Not- 
withstanding all  that  had  Ihm'ii  sjaid  of  this 
country  being  acquainted  with  tiie  .scheme  and 
prepared  to  adopt  it,  he  did  not  and  could  not 
believe  that  sucli  was  tlie  case ;  in  arranging 
ita  details  no  advice  or  asBistance  iiad  been 
sought  from  tho  representatives  of  the  people, 
and  the  people  themselves  were   to   have   no 


voice  in  the  matter.  The  scheme  was  as 
sumed  to  be  perfect,  and  being  perfect,  must 
be  adopted  by  the  House  without  change  or 
modification  of  any  kind.  It  was  said  that 
nine-tenths  of  the  people  were  in  its  favor  ; 
he  believed  that  a  very  large  majority  ap- 
proved of  the  general  principle  of  union,  but 
there  were  details  of  the  plan  which  did  not 
pass  unchallenged.  It  was  much  to  be  re- 
gretted that  the  resolutions  had  not  been  in- 
troduced in  such  a  way  as  would  have  per- 
mitted the  House  to  place  upon  record  its 
views  in  respect  to  any  part  of  them  which 
might  be  unacceptable,  and  to  suggest  to  the 
Imperial  authorities  who  might  frame  the 
bill,  such  amendments  as  it  considered  desir- 
able. Le  thought  the  honorable  memljer  for 
Wellington  (Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn)  was  in 
error  in  proposing  the  amendments  of  which 
he  had  given  notice, — the  resolutions  before 
them  weie  not,  properly  speaking,  resolutions 
of  the  House,  they  must  be  regarded  as  a 
mere  statement  of  certain  agreements  entered 
into  by  other  parties  and  communicated  to  us 
for  our  information,  and  consequently  could 
not  in  any  way  be  altered  or  amended.  Hon- 
orable members  were  thus  placed  in  an  ano- 
malous position — invited  to  discuss  the  whole 
subject  freely  and  their  assistance  requested, 
and  at  the  same  time  informed  that  no  change 
would  bo  effected — that  in  fact  the  only 
a,ssistance  wanted  wa.s  the  voting  for  the  adop- 
tion of  the  scheme  as  a  whole.  Whatever 
doubts  may  exist  as  to  the  change  the  proposed 
imion  might  effect  either  for  good  or  for  ill,  he 
thought  there  was  no  doubt  that  there  would 
necessarily  bo  a  vast  increase  of  expense  in 
carrying  on  the  Government :  without  men- 
tioning specific  sums,  it  must  be  obvious  that 
Canada  would  have  to  maintain  two  local 
legislatures  with  all  their  appurtenances,  in 
addition  to  her  share  of  the  expense  uf  the 
Federal  Legislature,  which  latter  could  scarcely 
b«  expected  to  be  less  than  at  present.  WiiU 
regard  to  the  proposed  change  in  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  Legislative  Council,  he  was  far  f  Von> 
considering  it  a  wiso  step;  like  tho  honorable 
member  for  Niagara  (Hon.  Mr.  Clrrik ),  be 
had  great  regard  for  the  right  of  the  frnueiiisti 
as  now  enjoyed  by  the  people,  and  felt  that  it 
would  bo  improper  to  vote  away  tliat  privilege 
of  his  constituents  without  their  authority  or 
assent.  He  had  been  sent  here  by  them  to  lussist 
in  legislating  under  tho  Constitution  wo  now 
Ijave,  and  not  to  change  it.  It  was  admitted  by 
all  that  the  elective  system  had  operated  advan- 
tageously, and  why  then  should  it  be  aban- 
doned?— why    initiate    a    retrojp-ado    move- 


83 


ment  unsougtit  for  by  the  country  ?  Much 
had  been  said  about  the  risk  of  collision 
between  two  elective  Houses,  that  legislation 
might  come  to  a  dead-lock ;  now  it  was  a 
remarkable  fact  that  under  the  present  system 
there  had  been  no  such  difficulties,  while  both 
in  England  and  in  Canada,  previous  to  the 
introduction  of  the  elective  system,  they  had 
occurred,  and  on  several  occasions  the  power 
of  the  Crown  had  been  called  in  to  overcome 
them  by  appointing  additional  members. 
What  would  be  the  position  of  the  House 
under  the  new  scheme?  It  would  be  the 
most  irresponsible  body  in  the  world ;  and  if  a 
dead-lock  should  occur  there  would  be  no  way 
of  overcoming  it,  for  the  casualties  of  death, 
resignation  or  acceptance  of  office,  which  had 
been  so  strongly  insisted  upon  as  sufficiently 
numerous  to  enable  the  Government  of  the 
day  to  modify  the  character  of  the  House, 
would  not  in  his  opinion  be  adequate  to  meet 
such  an  exigency.  Such  was  apparently  the 
view  of  the  Colonial  Secretary ;  and  it  would 
in  all  probability  be  found  necessary  to  leave 
the  Crown  unfettered  in  the  exercise  of  its 
prerogative  of  apppointmeut.  The  hon- 
orable gentleman  concluded  by  saying  that  he 
would  not  now  comment  upon  any  other 
details  of  the  scheme,  as  he  understood  the 
resolutions  were  to  be  discussed  seriatim,  but 
he  did  not  very  cleai-ly  see  the  advantage  of 
such  a  discussion  when  it  was  so  distinctly 
stated  that  the  only  question  for  the  House  to 
determine  was  whether  the  scheme  as  now 
submitted,  unchanged  and  unchangeable, 
should  be  rejected  or  adopted.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  said  the  scheme, 
it  was  true,  must  be  taken  as  a  whole,  or  re- 
jected, since  it  was  not  the  property  of  the  Gov- 
ernment of  Canada  alone,  but  of  all  the  other 
provinces  as  well.  But  it  did  not  therefore 
follow  that  honorable  members  who  might  dis- 
sent from  some  parts  of  it  might  not  inscribe 
that  dissent  on  the  journals.  If  the  amend- 
ments proposed  were  passed,  the  motion  for  an 
Address  would  not  be  pressed ;  but,  if  they  did 
not  carry,  then  the  votes  of  the  honorable  mem- 
bers who  had  supported  them  would  be  on  record. 
In  former  days,  before  the  yeas  and  nays  were 
taken,  it  was  the  practice  for  members  who 
objected  to  any  particular  measure,  in  confor- 
mity with  the  practice  of  the  House  of  Lords, 
to  enter  a  protest  on  the  journals  exhibiting 
their  reasons  for  dissent,  and  he  knew  of  no 
rule  which  would  prevent  such  a  course  from 
being  pursued  on  the  present  occasion.  It 
was  quite  in  the  power  of  honorable  members, 
if  they  chose,  to  propose  amendments,  and  so 


secure  the  advantage  of  placing  their  views 
before  the  country. 

Cries  of  "  adjourn !  adjourn  !" 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE  said,  as  there  was  an 
evident  desire  for  an  adjournment,  he  would 
not  occupy  the  time  of  the  House  for  more 
than  a  few  minutes,  his  intention  being  merely 
to  refer  to  a  portion  of  the  remarks  made 
by  the  honorable  gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  Vidal) 
who  had  just  sat  down.  Though  he  generally 
agreed  in  what  had  been  said  by  that  honor- 
able member,  there  was  one  particular  in  which 
he  (Hon.  Mr.  Moore)  thought  he  was  in  error. 
He  (Hon.  Jlr.  Vidal)  seemed  to  have  become 
impressed  with  the  idea  that  it  was  not  compe- 
tent for  the  House  to  amend  the  resolutions,  but 
that  they  should  either  be  adopted  or  rejected 
as  a  whole.  It  was  true  the  Government  had 
so  laid  it  down,  but  he  (Hon.  Mr.  Moore)  held 
that  the  question  could  be  dealt  with  in  the 
same  manner  as  any  other  that  might  come 
before  the  House.  His  honorable  friend  was 
also  of  opinion  that,  if  no  suggestions  or  amend- 
ments were  to  be  adopted,  it  was  wasting  time 
to  discuss  the  scheme.  In  this  respect  he 
(Hon.  Mr.  Moore)  begged  to  differ  with  the 
honorable  gentleman,  holding  that  it  was  not 
only  useful,  but  essentially  necessary  that  the 
details  of  a  measure  fraught  with  such  grave  and 
momentous  importance  to  the  country  should 
be  thoroughly  discussed.  A  calm  and  con- 
siderate discussion — and  every  latitude  for 
discussion — were  necessary,  and  he  hoped  the 
Government  would  not  press  the  measure  with 
any  unseemly  haste,  for  they  not  only  owed  it 
to  the  Legislature,  but  to  the  country,  that 
ample  opportunity  for  consideration  of  the 
project  should  be  afforded  to  the  people's 
representatives.  He  also  considered  it  imports 
ant  that  members  should  have  an  opportunity 
to  confer  with  their  constituents  on  the  sub- 
ject, in  order  to  vote  advisedly  when  the  time 
came  ;  and  he  trusted  the  Government  would 
not  press  the  matter,  nor  hinder  the  expression 
of  views,  even  if  those  views  extended  to 
amendment  in  certain  particulars.  The  hon- 
orable gentleman  then  sat  down,  repeating 
that  he  thought  the  House  might  deal  with 
the  question  as  with  any  other  that  might 
come  before  it. 

The  debate  was  then  adjourned  until  the 
morrow. 


84 


LEGISLATIVE   ASSEMBLY. 


Wednesday,  February  8, 1865. 

The  Order  of  the  Day  for  resuming  the 
debate  on  the  Resolution  for  a  Union  of  the 
British  North  American  Colonies,  having  been 

Hon.  GEORGE  BROWN  rose  and  said : 
Mr.  Speaker,  it  is  with  no  ordinary  gratifi- 
cation   I    rise    to    address    the    House    on 
this  occasion.       I    cannot  help   feeling   that 
the  struggle  of  half  a  life-time  for  constitu- 
tional reform — the  agitations  in  the  country, 
and  the  fierce  contests  in  this  chamber — the 
strife  and  the  discord  and  the  abuse  of  many 
years, — are  all  compensated  by  the  gi-eat  scheme 
of  reform    which    is  now   in    your   hands. 
(Cheers.)     The  Attorney  General  for  Upper 
Canada,  as  well  as  the  Attorney  General  for 
Lower  Canada,  in  addressing  the  House  last 
night,  were  anxious  to  have  it  understood  that 
this    scheme  for  uniting    British    America 
under  one  government,  is  something  different 
from    "representation    by    population," — is 
something  different  from  "joint  authority," 
— but   is   in   fact  the   very  scheme   of  the 
Government  of  which  they  were  members  in 
1858.     Now,  sir,  it  is  all  very  well  that  my 
honorable  friends  should  receive  credit  for  the 
large   share  they  have   contributed   towards 
maturing   the   measure   before    the   House ; 
but  I  could  not  help  reflecting   while   they 
spoke,  that  if  this  was  their  very  scheme  in 
1858,  they  succeeded  wonderfully  in  bottling 
it  up  from  all  the  world  except  themselves — 
(hear,  hear) — and  I  could  not  help  regretting 
that    we   had  to  wait  till  1864    until  this 
iiiysterious  plant  of  1858  was  forced  to  fruition. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)    For  myself,  sir,  I 
care  not  who  gets  the  credit  of  this  scheme, 
— I  believe  it  contains  the  best  features  of  all 
the  suggestions  that  have  been  made  in  the 
last  ten  years  ibr  the  settlement  of  our  troubles ; 
and   the  whole   feeling   in  my  mind  now  is 
one  of  joy  and  thankfulness   tliat  there  were 
found  men  of  position  and  influence  in  Canada 
who,  at  a  moment  of  serious  crisis,  had  nerve 
and  patriotism  enough  to  cast  aside  political 
partisanship,    to  banish   p(;rKonal    considera- 
tions, and  unite  for  the  aecompliuhnicnt  of  a 
measure  so  fraught  with   advantage  to  their 
common  country.     (Cheers.)     It  was  a  bold 
step  in  the  then  existing  state  of  public  feeling 
for  many  members  of  the  House  to  vote   for 
the  Constitutional  (Joniinitlee  moved  for  by  n»e 
last  session — it  was  u  very  bold  stop  lor  many 
of  the  members  of  that  committoo  to  speak 


and  vote  candidly  upon  it — it  was  a  still 
bolder  thing  for  many  to  pl*ce  their  names  to 
the  report  that  emanated  from  that  committee, 
— but  it  was  an  infinitely  bolder  step  for  the  gen- 
tlemen who  now  occupy  these  treasury  benches, 
to  brave  the  misconceptions  and  suspicions  that 
would  certainly  attach  to  the  act,  and  enter 
the  same  Government.  And  it  is  not  to  be 
denied  that  such  a  Coalition  demanded  no 
ordinary  justification.  But  who  does  not  feel 
that  every  one  of  us  has  to-day  ample  justifi- 
cation and  reward  for  all  we  did  in  the  docu- 
ment now  under  discussion  ?  (Cheers.)  But 
seven  short  months  have  passed  away  since  the 
Coalition  Government  was  formed,  yet  already 
are  we  submitting  a  scheme  well-weighed  and 
matured,  for  the  erection  of  a  future  empire, 
— a  scheme  which  has  been  received  at  home 
and  abroad  with  almost  universal  approval. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— (Ironically)  hear! 
hear ! ! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— My  hon.  friend  dis- 
sents from  that,  but  is  it  possible  truthfully  to 
deny  it  ?     Has  it  not  been  approved  and  en- 
dorsed by  the  governments   of  five  separate 
colonies  ? — Has  it  not  received  the  all  but 
unanimous  approval  of  the  press  of  Canada  ? — 
Has  it  not  been  heartily  and  unequivocally 
endorsed  by  the  electors  of  Canada  ?  (Cries  of 
hear,  hear,  and  no,  no.)    My  honorable  friend 
opposite  cries  "  no,  no,"  but  I  say  "  yes,  yes." 
Since  the  Coalition  was  formed,  and  its  policy 
of  Federal  union  announced,  there  have  been 
no  fewer  than  twenty-five  parliamentary  elect- 
ions— ^fourteen  for  members  of    the   tapper 
House,  and  eleven  for  members  of  the  Lower 
House.     At  the  fourteen  Upper  House  con- 
tests,  but   three  candidates   dared   to  show 
themselves  before  the  people  in  opposition  to 
the  Government  scheme ;   and  of  these,  two 
were  rejected,  and  one — only  one — succeeded 
in  finding  a  scat.  (Hear,  hoar.)  At  the  eleven 
contests  ibr  the  Lower  House,  but  one  candi- 
date on  either  side  of  politics  ventured  to  op- 
pose the  scheme,  and  I  hope  that  even  he  will 
yet  east  his  vote  in   favor  of  Confederation. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Of  these  twenty-five  electoral 
contests,  fourteen  were  in  Upper  Canada,  but 
\  not  at  one  of  them  did  a  candidate  appear  in 
opposition  to  our  sclieme.    And  lot  it  bo  ob- 
served how  large  a  portion  of  the  country 
these  twenty-five  electoral  districts  embracocl. 
It  is  true  that  the  eleven  Lower  House  elec- 
tions only  included  that  number  of  counties, 
but  tlie  fourteen  Upper  House  elections  em- 
braced no  fewer  than  forty  counties.     (Hear, 
hear.)     Of  the  VM  oontilituencios,  thorelbre, 
into  which  Canada  is  divided  for  reprcsenta- 


8» 


tion  in  this  chamber,  not  fewer  than  fifty  have 
been  called  on  since  our  scheme  was  announced 
to  pronounce  at  the  polls  their  verdict  upon  it, 
and  at  the  whole  of  them  but  four  candidates 
on  both  sides  of  politics  ventured  to  gire  it 
opposition.  (Cheers.)  Was  I  not  right  then 
in  asserting  that  the  electors  of  Canada  had, 
in  the  most  marked  manner,  pronounced  in 
favor  of  the  scheme  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  And 
will  honorable  gentlemen  deny  that  the  people 
and  press  of  Great  Britain  have  receired  it 
with  acclamations  of  approval  ? — that  the  Gov- 
ernment of  England  have  cordially  endorsed 
and  accepted  it  ? — aye,  that  even  the  press 
and  the  public  men  of  the  United  States  have 
spoken  of  it  with  a  degree  of  respect  they  never 
before  accorded  to  any  colonial  movement  ? 
Sir,  I  venture  to  assert  that  no  scheme  of 
equal  magnitude,  ever  placed  before  the  world, 
was  received  with  higher  eulogiums,  with 
more  universal  approbation,  than  the  mea- 
sure we  have  now  the  honor  of  submit- 
ting-for  the  acceptance  of  the  Canadian 
Parliament.  And  no  higher  eulogy  could,  I 
think,  be  pronoimced  than  that  I  heard  a  few 
weeks  ago  from  the  lips  of  one  of  the  fore- 
most of  British  statesmen,  that  the  system  of 
government  we  proposed  seemed  to  him  a 
happy  compound  of  the  best  features  of  the 
British  and  American  Constitutions.  And 
well,  Mr.  Speaker,  might  our  present  atti- 
tude in  Canada  arrest  the  earnest  attention  of 
other  countries.  Here  is  a  people  composed 
of  two  distinct  races,  speaking  different  lan- 
guages, with  religious  and  social  and  municip- 
al and  educational  institutions  totally  different ; 
with  sectional  hostilities  of  such  a  character  as 
to  render  government  for  many  years  well-nigh 
impossible ;  with  a  Constitution  so  unjust  in 
the  view  of  one  section  as  to  justify  any  resort 
to  enforce  a  remedy.  And  yet,  sir,  here  we 
sit,  patiently  and  temperately  discussing  how 
these  great  evils  and  hostilities  may  justly 
and  amicably  be  swept  away  forever.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  are  endeavoring  to  adjust  har- 
moniously greater  difficulties  than  have  plunged 
other  countries  into  all  the  horrors  of  civil 
war.  We  are  striving  to  do  peacefully  and 
satisfoctorily  what  Holland  and  Belgium,  after 
years  of  strife,  were  unable  to  accomplish.  We 
are  seeking  by  calm  discussion  to  settle  ques- 
tions that  Austria  and  Hungary,  that  Den- 
mark and  Germany,  that  Russia  and  Poland, 
could  only  crush  by  the  iron  heel  of  armed 
force.  We  are  seekinsr  to  do  without  forei2;n 
intervention  that  which  deluged  in  blood  the 
sunny  plains  of  Italy.  We  are  striving  to 
settle   forever  issues  hardly  less  momentous 


than  those  that  have  rent  the  neighboring  re- 
public and  are  now  exposing  it  to  all  the  hor- 
rors of  civil  war.  (Hear,  hear.)  Have  we 
not  then,  Mr.  Speaker,  great  cause  of  thank- 
fulness that  we  have  found  a  better  way  for 
the  solution  of  our  troubles  than  that  which 
has  entailed  on  other  countries  such  de- 
plorable results  ?  And  should  not  every 
one  of  us  endeavor  to  rise  to  the  magnitude 
of  the  occaiion,  and  earnestly  seek  to  deal 
with  this  question  to  the  end  in  the  same 
candid  and  conciliatory  spirit  in  which,  so 
far,  it  has  been  discussed  ?  (Loud  cries  of 
hear,  hear.)  The  scene  presented  by  this 
chamber  at  this  moment,  I  venture  to  affirm, 
has  few  parallels  in  history.  One  hundred 
years  have  passed  away  since  these  provinces 
became  by  conquest  part  of  the  British 
Empire.  I  speak  in  no  boastful  spirit — I 
desire  not  for  a  moment  to  excite  a  paicful 
thought — what  was  then  the  fortune  of  war 
of  the  brave  French  nation,  might  have  been 
ours  on  that  well-fought  field.  I  recall  those 
olden  times  merely  to  mark  the  fact  that  here 
sit  to-day  the  descendants  of  the  victors  and 
the  vanquished  in  the  fightof  1759,  with  all 
the  differences  of  language,  roligioa,  civil  law, 
and  social  habit,  nearly  as  distinctly  marked 
as  they  were  a  century  ago.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Here  we  sit  to-day  seeking  amicably  to  find  a 
remedy  for  constitutional  evils  and  injustice 
complained  of — by  the  vanquished  ?  No,  sir 
— but  complained  of  by  the  conquerors ! 
fCheers  by  the  French  Canadians.)  Here 
sit  the  representatives  of  the  British  popula- 
tion claiming  justice — only  justice  ;  and  here 
sit  the  representatives  of  the  French  popula- 
tion, discussing  in  the  French  tongue  whether 
we  shall  have  it.  One  hundred  years  have 
passed  away  since  the  conquest  of  Quebec, 
but  here  sit  the  children  of  the  victor  and  the 
vanquished,  all  avowing  hearty  attachment  to 
the  British  Crown — all  earnestly  deliberating 
how  we  shall  best  extend  the  blessings  of 
British  institutions — how  a  great  people  may 
be  established  on  this  continent  in  close  and 
hearty  connection  with  Great  Britain.  (Cheers.) 
Where,  sir,  in  the  page  of  history,  shall  we 
find  a  parallel  to  this  ?  Will  it  not  stand  _  as 
an  imperishable  monument  to  the  generosity 
of  British  rule?  And  it  is  not  in  Canada 
alone  that  this  scene  is  being  witnessed.  Four 
other  colonies  are  at  this  moment  occupied  as 
we  are — declaring  their  hearty  love  for  the 
parent  State,  and  deliberating  with  us  how 
they  may  best  discharge  the  great  duty  en- 
ti-usted  to  their  hands,  and  give  their  aid  in 
developing  the  teeming  resources  of  these  vast 


86 


possessions.  And  well,  Mr.  Speakzr,  may  the 
work  we  have  unitedly  proposed  rouse  the 
ambition  and  energy  of  every  true  man  in 
British  America.  Look,  sir,  at  the  map  of 
the  continent  of  America,  and  mark  that 
island  (Newfoundland)  commanding  the  mouth 
of  the  noble  river  that  almost  cuts  our  conti- 
nent in  twain.  Well,  sir,  that  island  is  equal 
in  extent  to  the  kingdom  of  Portugal.  Cross 
the  straits  to  the  main  land,  and  you  touch 
the  hospitable  shores  of  Nova  Scotia,  a 
country  as  large  as  the  kingdom  of  Greece. 
Then  mark  the  sister  province  of  New 
Brunswick — equal  in  extent  to  Denmark  and 
Switzerland  combined.  Pass  up  the  river  St. 
Lawrence  to  Lower  Canada — a  country  as 
large  as  France.  Pass  on  to  Upper  Canada, 
— twenty  thousand  square  miles  larger  than 
Great  Britain  and  Ireland  put  together. 
Cross  over  the  continent  to  the  shores  of  the 
Pacific,  and  you  are  in  British  Columbia,  the 
land  of  golden  promise, — equal  in  extent  to 
the  Austrian  Empire.  I  speak  not  now  of 
the  vast  Indian  Territories  that  lie  between — 
greater  in  extent  than  the  whole  soil  of  Russia 
— and  that  will  ere  long,  I  trust,  be  opened  up 
to  civilization  under  the  auspices  of  the  British 
American  Confederation.  (Cheers.)  Well, 
sir,  the  bold  scheme  in  your  hands  is  nothing 
less  than  to  gather  all  these  countries  into  one 
— to  organize  them  all  under  one  government, 
with  the  protection  of  the  British  flag,  and  in 
heartiest  sympathy  and  affection  with  our 
fellow-subjects  in  the  land  that  gave  us  birth. 
(Cheers.)  Our  scheme  is  to  establish  a  gov- 
ernment that  will  seek  to  turn  the  tide  of 
European  emigration  into  this  northern  half 
of  the  American  continent — that  will  strive  to 
devclope  its  great  natural  resources — and  that 
will  endeavor  to  maintain  liberty,  ard  justice, 
and  Christianity  throughout  the  land. 

Mr.  T.  C.  WALLBRIDGE— When  ? 

Hon.  Ma.  CARTIER— Very  soon! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  member  for 
North  Hastings  asks  when  all  this  can  be 
done  ?  Sir,  the  whole  great  ends  of  this  Con- 
federation may  not  be  realized  in  the  lifetime 
of  many  who  now  hear  me.  We  imagine  not 
that  Buch  a  structure  can  be  built  in  a  month 
or  in  a  year.  What  we  propose  now  is  but  to 
lay  the  foundations  of  the  structure — to  set  in 
motion  the  governmental  machinery  that  will 
one  day,  we  trust,  extend  from  the  Atlantic  to 
the  Pacific.  And  we  take  especial  credit  to 
ourselves  that  the  system  wo  have  devised, 
while  admirably  adapted  to  our  present  situa- 
tion, is  capable  of  gradual  and  efiicient  cxpan- 
aion  in  future  years  to  meet  all  the  great  pur- 


poses contemplated  by  our  scheme.  But  if  the 
honorable  gentleman  will  only  recall  to  mind 
that  when  the  United  States  seceded  from  the 
Mother  Country,  and  for  many  years  after- 
wards their  population  was  not  nearly  equal 
to  ours  at  this  moment ;  that  their  internal 
improvements  did  not  then  approach  to  what 
we  have  already  attained  ;  and  that  their  trade 
and  commerce  was  not  then  a  third  of  what 
ours  has  already  reached  ;  I  think  he  will  see 
that  the  fulfilment  of  our  hopes  may  not  be  so 
very  remote  as  at  first  sight  might  be  imagined 
— (hear,  hear.)  And  he  will  be  strengthened 
in  that  conviction  if  he  remembers  that  what 
we  propose  to  do  is  to  be  done  with  the  cordial 
sympathy  and  assistance  of  that  great  Power 
of  which  it  is  our  happiness  to  form  a  part. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Such,  Mr.  Speaker,  are  the 
objects  of  attainment  to  which  the  British 
American  Conference  pledged  itself  in  Octo- 
ber. And  said  I  not  rightly  that  such  a  scheme 
is  well  fitted  to  fire  the  ambition  and  rouse  the 
energies  of  every  member  of  this  House? 
Does  it  not  lift  us  above  the  petty  politics  of 
the  past,  and  present  to  us  high  purposes 
and  great  interests  that  may  well  call  forth  all 
the  intellectual  ability  and  all  the  energy  and 
enterprise  to  be  found  among  us  ?  (Cheers.) 
I  readily  admit  all  the  gravity  of  the  question 
— and  that  it  ought  to  be  considered  cautiously 
and  thoroughly  before  adoption.  Far  be  it 
from  me  to  deprecate  the  closest  criticism,  or 
to  doubt  for  a  moment  the  sincerity  or  patriot- 
ism of  those  who  feel  it  their  duty  to  oppose 
the  measure.  But  in  considering  a  question 
on  which  hangs  the  future  destiny  of  half  a 
continent,  ought  not  the  spirit  of  mere  fault- 
finding to  be  hushed  ? — ought  not  the  voice  of 
partisanship  to  be  banished  from  our  debates  ? 
— ought  we  not  to  sit  down  and  discuss  the 
arguments  presented  in  the  earnest  and  candid 
spirit  of  men,  bound  by  the  same  interests, 
seeking  a  common  end,  and  loving  the  same 
country?  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  Some 
honorable  gentlemen  seem  to  imagine  that  the 
members  of  Government  have  a  deeper  interest 
in  this  scheme  than  others — but  what  jwssiblo 
interest  can  any  of  us  liavc  except  that  which 
we  share  with  every  eitizou  of  the  land  ?  What 
ri.sk  doos  any  one  run  from  this  measure  in 
which  all  of  us  do  not  fully  participate  ?  What 
possible  inducement  could  wo  have  to  urge  tliis 
scheme,  except  our  earnest  and  heartii-lt  con- 
viction that  it  will  inure  to  the  solid  and 
lasting  advantage  of  our  country  ?  (Hear, 
hear.)  There  is  one  consideration,  Mr.  Spe.VK- 
ER,  that  cannot  be  banished  from  this  discus- 
sion, and  that  ought,  I  think,  to  be  remembered 


87 


in  every  word  we  utter  ;  it  is  that  the  consti- 
tutional system  of  Canada  cannot  remain  as  it 
is  now.  (Loud  cries  of  hear,  hear.)  Something 
must  be  done.  We  cannot  stand  still.  We 
cannot  go  back  to  chronic,  sectional  hostility 
and  discord — to  a  state  of  perpetual  Ministerial 
crises.  The  events  of  the  last  eight  months 
cannot  be  obliterated  ;  the  solemn  admissions 
of  men  of  all  parties  can  never  be  erased.  The 
claims  of  Upper  Canada  for  justice  must  be 
met,  and  met  now.  I  say,  then,  that  every  one 
who  raises  his  voice  in  hostility  to  this  measure 
is  bound  to  keep  before  him,  when  he  speaks, 
all  the  perilous  consequences  of  its  rejection, — 
I  say  that  no  man  who  has  a  true  regard  for 
the  well-being  of  Canada,  can  give  a  vote 
against  this  scheme,  unless  he  is  prepared  to 
offer,  in  amendment,  some  better  remedy  for 
the  evils  and  injustice  that  have  so  long  threat- 
ened the  peace  of  our  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
And  not  only  must  the  scheme  proposed  in 
amendment  be  a  better  scheme — it  must  be 
something  that  can  be  carried.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  see  an  honorable  friend  now  before  me,  for 
whose  opinions  I  have  the  very  highest  respect, 
who  says  to  me :  "  Mr.  Brown,  you  should 
not  have  settled  this  part  of  the  plan  as  you 
have  done  ;  here  is  the  way  you  should  have 
framed  it."  '"  Well,  my  dear  sir,"  is  my  reply, 
"  I  perfectly  agree  with  you,  but  it  could  not 
be  done.  Whether  we  ask  for  parliamentary 
reform  for  Canada  alone  or  in  union  with 
the  Maritime  Provinces,  the  French  Canadians 
must  have  their  views  consulted  as  well  as  us. 
This  scheme  can  be  carried,  and  no  scheme 
ean  be  that  has  not  the  support  of  both  sec- 
tions of  the  province." 

Hon.  Mr.  CAKTIER— Hear,  hear  !  there 
is  the  question  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Yea,  that  is  the  ques- 
tion and  the  whole  question.  No  constitution 
ever  framed  was  without  defect;  no  act  of 
human  wisdom  was  ever  free  from  imperfec- 
tion ;  no  amount  of  talent  and  wisdom  and 
integrity  combined  in  preparing  such  a  scheme 
could  have  placed  it  beyond  the  reach  of  criti- 
cism. And  the  framers  of  this  scheme  had 
immense  special  difficulties  to  overcome.  We 
had  the  prejudices  of  race  and  language  and 
reUgion  to  deal  with  ;  and  we  had  to  encounter 
all  the  rivalries  of  trade  and  commerce,  and 
all  the  jealousies  of  diversified  local  interests. 
To  assert,  then,  that  our  scheme  is  without 
fault,  would  be  folly.  It  was  necessarily  the 
work  of  concession ;  not  one  of  the  thirty-three 
framers  but  had,  on  some  points,  to  yield  his  , 
opinions ;  and,  for  myself,  I  freely  admit  that 
I  struggled  earnestly,  for  days  together,  to 


have  portions  of  the  scheme  amended.  But, 
Mr.  Speaker,  admitting  all  this — admitting 
all  the  difficulties  that  beset  us — admitting 
frankly  that  defects  in  the  measure  exist — ^I 
say  that,  taking  the  scheme  as  a  whole,  it  has 
my  cordial,  enthusiastic  support,  without  hesi- 
tation or  reservation.  (Hear,  hear.)  T  be- 
lieve it  will  accomplish  all,  and  more  than  all, 
that  we,  who  have  so  long  fought  the  battle  of 
parliamentary  reform,  ever  hoped  to  see  ac- 
complished. I  believe  that,  while  granting  se- 
curity for  local  interests,  it  will  give  free  scope 
for  caiTying  out  the  will  of  the  whole  people 
in  general  matters — that  it  will  draw  closer 
the  bonds  that  unite  us  to  Great  Britain — and 
that  it  will  lay  the  foundations  deep  and 
strong  of  a  powerful  and  prosperous  people. 
(Cheers.)  And  if  the  House  will  allow  me 
to  trespass  to  a  somewhat  unusual  degree  on 
its  indulgence,  I  am  satisfied  that  I  can  clear- 
ly establish  that  such  are  the  results  fairly  to 
be  anticipated  from  the  measure.  Mr.  Speak- 
er, there  are  two  views  in  which  this  scheme 
may  be  regarded,  namely,  the  existing  evils  it 
will  remedy,  and  the  new  advantages  it  will 
secure  for  us  as  a  people.  Let  us  begin  by 
examining  its  remedial  provisions.  First,  then, 
it  applies  a  complete  and  satisfactory  remedy 
to  the  injustice  of  the  existing  system  of  par- 
liamentary representation.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
people  of  Upper  Canada  have  bitterly  com- 
plained that  though  they  numbered  four  hun- 
dred thousand  souls  more  than  the  population 
of  Lower  Canada,  and  though  they  have  con- 
tributed three  or  four  pounds  to  the  general 
revenue  for  every  pound  contributed  by  the 
sister  province,  yet  the  Lower  Canadians  send 
to  Parliament  as  many  representatives  as  they 
do.  Now,  sir,  the  measure  in  your  hands 
brings  this  injustice  to  an  end ; — it  sweeps 
away  the  line  of  demarcation  between  the  two 
sections  on  all  matters  common  to  the  whole 
province  ;  it  gives  representation  according  to 
numbers  wherever  found  in  the  House  of  As- 
sembly ;  and  it  provides  a  simple  and  conve- 
nient system  for  re-adjusting  the  representa- 
tion after  each  decennial  census.  (Cheers.) 
To  this  proposed  constitution  of  the  Lower 
Chamber,  I  have  heard  only  two  objections. 
It  has  been  alleged  that  until  after  the  census 
of  1871,  the  number  of  members  is  to  re- 
main as  at  present ;  but  this  is  a  mistake. 
Upper  Canada  is  to  receive  from  the  start 
eighty-two  representatives,  and  Lower  Canada 
sixty-five ;  and  whatever  increase  the  census 
of  1871  may  establish  will  be  then  adjusted. 
It  has  also  been  objected  that  though  the  reso- 
lutions provide  that  the  existing  Parliament 


88    • 


of  Canada  shall  establish  the  electoral  divisions 
for  the  first  organization  of  the  Federal  Par- 
liament, they  do  not  determine  in  whose  hands 
the  duty  of  distributing  any  additional  mem- 
bers is  to  bo  vested.  No  doubt  on  tliis  head 
need  exist ;  the  Federal  Parliament  will  of 
course  have  full  power  to  regulate  all  arrange- 
ments for  the  election  of  its  own  members. 
But  I  am  told  by  Upper  Canadians — the  con- 
stitution of  the  Lower  House  is  all  well 
enough,  it  is  in  the  Upper  House  arrangements 
that  the  scheme  is  objectionable.  And  first, 
it  is  said  that  Upper  Canada  should  hare  had 
in  the  Legislative  Council  a  greater  number 
of  members  than  Lower  Canada. — 

Mr.  T.  C.  WALLBRIDGE— Hear,  hear! 
Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  North  Hastings  is  of  that  opinion ; 
but  that  honorable  gentleman  is  in  fovor 
of  a  legislative  union,  and  had  we  been  form- 
ing a  legislative  union,  there  might  have 
been  [some  force  in  the  demand.  But 
the  very  essence  of  our  compact  is  that 
the  union  shall  be   federal  and  not  legisla- 

•/  tive.  /  Our  Lower  Canada  friends  have  agreed 
to  give  us  representation  by  population  in 
the  Lower  House,  on  the  express  condition 
that  they  shall  have  equality  in  the  Upper 
House.  On  no  other  condition  could  we  have 
advanced  a  step;  and,  for  my  part,  I  am  quite 
willing  they  should  have  it.  In  maintaining 
the  existing  sectional  boundaries  and  handing 
over  the  control  of  local  matters  to  local 
bodies,  we  recognize,  to  a  certain  extent,  a 
diversity  of  interests;  and  it  was  quite  natural 
that  the  protection  for  those  interests,  by 
equality  in  the  Upper  Chamber,  should  bo 

.  demanded  by  the  less  numerous  provinces. 
Honorable  gentlemen  may  say  that  it  will 
erect  a  barrier  in  the  Upper  House  against 
t'le  just  influence  that  Upper  Canada  will  ex- 
ercise, by  her  numbers,  in  the  Lower  House, 
over  the  general  legislation  of  the  country. 
That  may  be  true,  to  a  certain  extent,  but 
honorable  gentlemen  will  bear  in  mind  that 
that  barrier,  be  it  more  or  less,  will  not  aflect 
money  bills.  (Hear,  hear.)  Hitherto  we 
have  been  paying  a  vast  proportion  of  the 
tixes,  with  little  or  no  control  over  the  ex- 
pinditure.  But,  under  this  plan,  by  our 
just  influence  in  the  Jjower  Chamber,  wo 
s'lall  hold  the  purse  strings.  If,  from  this 
cmcession  of  equality  in  the  Upper  Chamber, 
we  are  restrained  fiom  forcing  through  meas- 
ures which  our  I'liends  of  Lower  Canada  may 
Cjnsider  injurious  to  their  interests,  wo  shall, 
at  any  rate,  liavtj  power,  which  wo  never  had 
before,  to  prevent  thmu  from  forciug  through 


whatever  we  may  deem  unjust  to  us.  I 
think  the  compromise  a  fair  one,  and  am  per- 
suaded that  it  will  work  ea.sily  and  satisfac- 
torily. (Hear,  hear.)  But  it  has  been  said 
that  the  members  of  the  Upper  House  ouglit 
not  to  be  appointed  by  the  Crown,  but  should 
continue  to  be  elected  by  the  people  at  large. 
On  that  question  my  views  have  been  often 
expressed.  I  have  always  been  opposed  to  a 
second  elective  chamber,  and  I  am  so  still, 
from  the  conviction  that  two  elective  houses 
are  inconsistent  with  the  right  working  of  the 
British  parliamentary  system.  I  voted,  almost 
alone,  against  the  change  when  the  Council 
was  made  elective,  but  I  have  lived  to  see  a 
vast  majority  of  those  who  did  the  deed  wish 
it  had  not  been  done.  It  is  quite  true,  and  I 
am  glad  to  acknowledge  it,  that  many  evils  an- 
ticipated from  the  change,  when  the  measure 
was  adopted,  have  not  been  realized.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  readily  admit  that  men  of  the  high- 
est character  and  position  have  been  brought 
into  the  Council  by  the  elective  system,  but  it 
is  equally  true  that  the  system  of  appointment 
brought  into  it  men  of  the  highest  character 
and  position.  Whether  appointed  by  the  Crown 
or  elected  by  the  people,  since  the  introducticn 
of  parliamentary  government,the  men  who  have 
composed  the  Upper  House  of  this  Legislature 
have  been  men  who  would  have  done  honor  to 
any  legislature  in  the  world.  But  what  we 
most  feared  was,  that  the  Legislative  Council- 
lors would  be  elected  under  party  responsibili- 
ties ;  that  a  partisan  spirit  would  soon  show 
itself  in  the  chamber;  and  that  the  right 
would  soon  be  asserted  to  an  equal  control 
with  this  House  over  money  bills.  That  fear 
has  not  been  realised  to  any  dangerous  extent. 
But  is  it  not  possible  that  such  a  claim  might 
ere  long  be  asserted  ?  Do  we  not  hear,  even 
now,  mutterings  of  a  coming  demand  for  it  V 
Nor  can  we  forget  that  the  elected  members 
came  into  that  chamber  gradually  ;  that  tlie 
large  number  of  old  appointed  members  exer- 
cised much  influence  in  maintaining  the  old 
forms  of  the  House,  the  old  style  of  debate, 
and  the  old  barriers  against  encroachment  on 
the  privileges  of  the  commons.  But  tlie  ap- 
pointed members  of  the  Council  are  gradually 
passing  away,  and  when  the  elective  element 
becomes  supreme,  who  will  venture  to  aflirm 
that  the  Council  would  not  claim  that  power 
over  money  billa  which  this  House  claims  as  of 
right  belonging  to  itself?  Could  t\ivy  not  justly 
say  tliat  tliey  represent  the  people  ab  well  as  wo 
do,  and  that  the  control  of  tlie  purse  strings 
ought,  therefore,  to  belong  to  tlietn  as  much  as 
to  us.  (Hoar,  hear.)     It  is  said  they  have  not 


89 


the  power.  But  what  is  to  prevent  them  from 
enforcing  it  ?  Suppose  we  had  a  conservatire 
majority  here,  and  a  reform  majority  above — 
or  a  conservative  majority  above  and  a  refoi-m 
majority  here — all  elected  under  party  obliga- 
tions,— what  is  to  prevent  a  dead-lock  between 
the  chambers  ?  It  may  be  called  unconstitu- 
tional— ^but  what  is  to  prevent  the  Councillors 
(especially  if  they  feel  that  in  the  dispute  of 
the  hour  they  have  the  country  at  their 
back)  from  practically  exercising  all  the  pow- 
ers that  belong  to  us  ?  They  might  amend 
our  money  bills,  they  might  throw  out  all  our 
bills  if  they  liked,  and  bring  to  a  stop  the 
whole  machinery  of  government.  And  what 
could  we  do  to  prevent  them  ?  But,  even 
supposing  this  were  not  the  case,  and  that  the 
elective  Upper  House  continued  to  be  guided 
by  that  discretion  which  has  heretofore  actu- 
ated its  proceedings, — still,  I  think,  we  must 
all  feel  that  the  election  of  members  for  such 
enormous  districts  as  form  the  constituencies 
of  the  Upper  House  has  become  a  great  prac- 
tical inconvenience.  I  say  this  from  personal 
experience,  having  long  taken  an  active  inter- 
est in  the  electoral  contests  in  Upper  Canada. 
We  have  found  greater  difficulty  in  inducing 
candidates  to  offer  for  seats  in  the  Upper 
House,  than  in  getting  ten  times  the  number 
for  the  Lower  House.  The  constituencies  are 
so  vast,  that  it  is  difficult  to  find  gentlemen 
who  have  the  will  to  incur  the  labor  of  such 
a  contest,  who  are  sufficiently  known  and 
popular  enough  throughout  districts  so  wide, 
and  who  have  money  enough  —  (hear)  —  to 
pay  the  enormous  bills,  not  incurred  in  any 
corrupt  way, — do  not  fancy  that  I  mean  that 
for  a  moment — but  the  bills  that  are  sent  in 
after  the  contest  is  over,  and  which  the  candi- 
dates are  compelled  to  pay  if  they  ever  hope 
to  present  themselves  for  re-election.  (Hear, 
bear.)  But  honorable  gentlemen  say — "  This 
is  all  very  well,  but  you  are  taking  an  impor- 
tant power  out  of  the  hands  of  the  people, 
which  they  now  possess."  Now  this  is  a 
mistake.  We  do  not  propose  to  do  anything 
of  the  sort.  What  we  propose  is,  that  the 
Upper  House  shall  be  appointed  from  the  best 
men  of  the  country  by  those  holding  the  con- 
fidence of  the  representatives  of  the  people  in 
this  Chamber.  It  is  proposed  that  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  day,  which  only  lives  by  the  ap- 
proval of  this  Chamber,  shall  make  the  ap- 
pointments, and  be  responsible  to  the  people 
for  the  selections  they  shall  make.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Not  a  single  appointment  could  be 
made,  with  regard  to  which  the  Government 
would  not  be  open  to  censure,  and  which  the 

13 


representatives  of  the  people,  in  this  House, 
would  not  have  an  opportunity  of  condemning. 
For  myself,  I  have  maintained  the  appointed 
principle,  as  in  opposition  to  the  elective,  ever 
since  I  came  into  public  life,  and  have  never 
hesitated,  when  before  the  people,  to  state  my 
opinions  in  the  broadest  manner ;  and  yet  not 
in  a  single  instance  have  I  ever  found  a  con- 
stituency in  Upper  Canada,  or  a  public  meet- 
ing declaring  its  disapproval  of  appointment 
by  the  Crown  and  its  desire  for  election  by  the 
people  at  large.  When  the  change  was  made 
in  1855  there  was  not  a  single  petition  from 
the  people  asking  for  it — it  was  in  a  manner 
forced  on  the  Legislature.  The  real  reason 
for  the  change  was,  that  before  Responsible 
Government  was  introduced  into  this  country, 
while  the  old  oligarchical  system  existed,  the 
Upper  House  continuously  and  systemati- 
cally was  at  war  with  the  popular  branch,  and 
threw  out  every  measure  of  a  liberal  ten- 
dency. The  result  was,  that  in  the  famous 
ninety-two  resolutior  s  the  introduction  of  the 
elective  principle  into  the  Upper  House  was 
declared  to  be  indispensable.  So  long  as  Mr. 
Robert  Baldwin  remained  in  public  life, 
the  thing  could  not  be  done ;  but  when  he 
left,  the  deed  was  consummated.  But  it  is 
said,  that  if  the  members  are  to  be  appointed 
for  lifi,  the  number  should  be  unlimited — 
that,  in  the  event  of  a  dead  lock  arising  be- 
tween that  chamber  and  this,  there  should  be 
power  to  overcome  the  difficulty  by  the  ap- 
pointment of  more  members.  Well,  under 
the  British  system,  in  the  case  of  a  legislative 
union,  that  might  be  a  legitimate  provision. 
But  honorable  gentlemen  must  see  that  the 
limitation  of  the  numbers  in  the  Upper  House 
lies  at  the  base  of  the  whole  compact  on 
which  this  scheme  rests.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
is  perfectly  clear,  as  was  contended  by  those 
who  represented  Lower  Canada  in  the  Con- 
ference, that  if  the  number  of  the  Legis- 
lative Councillors  was  made  capable  of  in- 
crease, you  would  thereby  sweep  away  the 
whole  protection  they  had  from  the  Upper 
Chamber,  But  it  has  been  said  that,  though 
you  may  not  give  the  power  to  the  Executive 
to  increase  the  numbers  of  the  Upper  House, 
in  the  event  of  a  dead-lock,  you  might  limit 
the  term  for  which  the  members  are  appointed. 
I  was  myself  in  favor  of  that  proposition.  I 
thought  it  would  be  well  to  provide  for  a 
more  frequent  change  in  the  composition  of  the 
Upper  House,  and  lessen  the  danger  of  the 
chamber  being  largely  composed  of  gentlemen 
whose  advanced  years  might  forbid  the  punc- 
tual and  vigorous   discharge  of  their  public 


90 


duties.     Still,  the  objection  made  to  this  was 
very  strong.      It  was   said  :     "  Suppose  you 
appoint  thorn  for  nine  years,  what  will  ba  the 
effect  ?     For  the  last  three  or  'four  years  of 
their    term    thc}-^   would    be    anticipating  its 
expiry,  and  anxiously  looking  to  the  Adminis- 
tration of  the  day  ibr  re-appointment ;  and  the 
conseijuence  would  be  that  a  third  of  the  mem- 
bers would  be  under  the  influence  of  the  b]x- 
ecutivc."     The  desire  was  to  render  the  Uppey 
House  a  thoroughly  independent  body — one 
that  would  be  in  the  best  position  to  canvjxss 
dispassionately  the  measures  of  this  House,  and 
stand  up  for  the  public  interests  in  opposition 
to  hasty   or  partisan  legislation.     It  was  con- 
tended that  there  is  no  fear  of  a  dead-lock. 
We  were  reminded  how  the  system  of  appoint- 
ing for  life  had  worked   in  past  years,  since 
Responsible  Grovcrnment  was  introduced  ;  we 
were  told  that   the  complaint  was  not^  then, 
that  the  Upper  Chamber  had  been  too  obstruc- 
tive a  body — not  that  it  had  souijht  to  restrain 
the  popular  will,  but  that  it  had   too  faith- 
fully reflected  the  popular  will.     Undoubtedly 
th;it  was  the  complaint  formerly  pressed  upo.i 
us — (hear,  hearj — -and  I  readily  admit  that 
if  ever  there  was  a  body  to  whom  we  could 
safely  entrust  the  power  which  by  this  mea- 
sure we  propose   to   confer  on  the  members 
of   the  Upper   Chamber,  it    is  the  body   of 
gentlemen    who     at    this    moment    compose 
the   Legislative    Council    of    Canada.       The 
forty-eight    Councillors    for    Canada    are   to 
be  chosen  from  the  present  chamber.     There 
are  now  thirty-four   members  from  the  one 
section,  and   thirty-five    from  the  other.      I 
belie 70  that  of  the  sixty-nine,  some  will  not 
desire  to   make   their  appearance  here  again, 
others,  unhappily,  from  years  and  infirmity, 
may  not  have  strength   to   do  so ;  and  there 
may  be  others  who  will  not  desire  to  qualify 
under  the  Statute.    It  is  quite  clear  that  when 
twenty-four    are   selected  for    Upper  Canada 
and  twenty-four  for   Lower  Canada,  very  few 
indeed  of  the  present  House  will  be  excluded 
from  the  Federal  Chamber  ;    and   I  confess  I 
am  not  without  hope  that  there  may  be  some 
way  yet  found  of  providing  for  all  who  desire 
it,  an    honorable  position  in   the  Legislature 
of   the  country.     (^Hear,  hear.j     And,    after 
all,    is  it  not  an   imiginary  fear — that  of  a 
dead-lock  ?      Is   it  at    all  probablo  that  any 
budy    of  gentlemen   who    may  compose    tlio 
Upper  House,  app  iiiitcd   as   tliey   will   be  for 
life,  acting  us  tliey   will  du  on    personal  and 
not  party    responnibility,  possessinj^-  a.s    thoy 
must,  a    deep    otake  in   the  welfare   of    the 
country,  and   desirous  as   thoy   must  be  of 


holding  the  esteem  of  their  fellow-subjects — 
would  take  so  unreasonable    a  course   as  to 
imperil    the   whole    political   fabric  ?       The 
British  House  of  Peers  itself  does  not  venture, 
d  t'liutrance^  to  resist  the   popular  will,    and 
can  it  be  anticipated  that  our  Upper  Chamber 
would  set  itself  rashly  against  the  popular  will? 
If  any  fear  is  to  be  entertained  in  the  mat- 
ter, is  it  not  rather  that  the  Councillors  will 
be  found  too  thoroughly  in  harmony  with  the 
popular  feeling  of  the  day  ?     And  we   have 
this  satisfaction  at  any  rate,  that,  so  far  as  its 
first  formation  is  concerned — so  far  as  the  pre- 
sent question  is  concerned — we  shall  have  a 
body  of  gentlemen  in  whom  every  confidence 
may  be  placed.     (Hear,  hear.)     But  it  is  ob- 
jected that  in  the  constitution  of  the  Upper 
House,  so  far  as  Lower  Canada  is  concerned, 
the  existing  electoral  divisions  are  to  be  main- 
tained, while,,  as  regards  Upper  Canada,  they 
are  to  be  abolished — 'that  the  members  from 
Lower  Canada  are  to  sit  as  representing  the 
divisions  in  which  they  reside  or  have  their 
property  qualification;    while  in    Upper    Ca- 
nada  there   is   no    such    arrangement.     Un- 
doubtedly this   is   the   fact ;  it  has  been  so 
arranged  to  suit  the  peculiar  position  of  this 
section  of  the  province.     Our  Lower  Canada 
friends  felt  that  they  had   French  Canadian 
interests  and  British  interests  to  be  protected, 
and  they  conceived  that  the  existing  system 
of  electoral  divisions  would  give  protection  to 
these  separata    interests.     We,  in  Upper  Ca- 
nada, on  the  other  hand,  were  quite  content 
that   they   should    settle   that   among   them- 
selves, and  maintain  their  existing  divisions  if 
they  chose.     But,  so  far  as  we  in  tho  west 
were  concerned,  we  had  no  such  separate  in- 
terests to  protect — we  had  no  diversities  ol" 
oriy-in  or  lan<ruae;e  to  reconcile — and  we  felt 
that  the  true  interest  of  Upper  Canada  was 
that  her  very  best  men  should  be  sent  to  the 
Legislative    Council,    wherever    they    might 
happen  to  reside  or  wherever  their  property 
was  located.     (Hear,  hear.)     If  there  is  one 
evil  in  the   American   system  which  in    my 
mind  stands  out  as  preeminently  its  greatest 
defect,  except  universal   suiVrage,    it    is    that 
under  that  Constitution  the  representatives  of 
the  people  must  resido  in  the  const  it  uenoios 
ibr  which  they  sit.    (Hear,  hoar.)    Tho  ros\ilt 
is  th.at  a  public  man, — no  matter  what  his 
talent,  or  what  liis  ])Osition — no  matter  how 
necessary  it  may   be   Ibr  tho  interest  of  the 
country  that  he  should  be  in  public  life,  unless 
he    happens   to   belong   to   tho  political   party 
popular  Ibr  the  time  being  in  the  constituency 
where  ho  resides,  cannot  possibly  find  a  geat 


91 


in  Congress.  And  over  and  over  again  have  we 
seen  the  very  best  men  of  the  Republic,  the 
most  illustrious  names  recorded  in  its  political 
annals,  driven  out  of  the  legislature  of  their 
country,  simply  because  the  majority  in  jthe 
electoral  division  in  which  they  lived  was  of 
a  diflferent  political  party  from  -^w*m.  I  do 
think  the  British  system  infinitely  better  than 
that,  securing  as  it  does  that  public  men  may 
be  trained  to  publia  hfe,  with  the  assured 
conviction  that  if  they  prove  themselves  wor- 
thy of  public  confidence,  and  gain  a  position 
in  the  country,  constituencies  will  always  be 
found  to  avail  themselves  of  their  services,  what- 
ever be  the  political  party  to  which  they  may 
adhere.  You  may  make  politicians  by  the 
other,  but  assuredly  this  is  the  way  that  states- 
men are  produced.  But  it  is  further  objected 
that  the  property  qualification  of  the  members 
of  the  Upper  House  from  Prince  Edward  Is- 
land and  Xewfoundland  may  be  either  real  or 
personal  estate,  while  in  the  others  it  is  to  be 
real  estate  alone.  This  is  correct ;  but  I  fancy 
it  matters  little  to  us  upon  what  species  of 
property  our  friends  in  Prince  Edward  Island 
or  in  Newfoundland  base  their  qualification. 
Here  in  Canada  real  estate  is  abundant ;  every 
one  can  obtain  it ;  and  admittedly  by  all  it  is 
the  best  qualification,  if  it  be  advissible  to 
have  any  property  qualification  at  all.  But 
in  Newfoundland  it  would  be  exceedingly  in- 
convenient to  enforce  ^uch  a  rule.  The  pub- 
lic lands  there  are  not  even  surveyed  to  any 
considerable  extent;  the  people  are  almost 
entirely  engaged  in  fishing  and  commercial 
pursuits,  and  to  require  a  real  estate  qualifi- 
cation would  be  practically  to  exclude  some 
of  its  best  public  men  from  the  Legislative 
Council.  Then  in  Prince  Edward  Island  a 
large  portion  of  the  island  is  held  in  exten- 
sive tracts  by  absentee  proprietors  and  leased 
to  the  settlers.  A  feud  of  long  standing  has 
been  the  result,  and  there  would  be  some 
difficulty  in  finding  landed  proprietors  who 
would  be  acceptable  to  the  people  as  mem- 
bers of  the  Upper  House.  This  also  must 
be  remembered,  that  it  will  be  a  very  diif- 
erent  thing  for  a  member  from  Newfound- 
land or  Prince  Edward  Island  to  attend  the 
Legislature  at  Ottawa  from  what  it  is  for  one 
of  ourselves  to  go  there.  He  must  give  up 
not  only  his  time,  but  the  comfort  and  conve- 
nience of  being  near  home — and  it  is  desirable 
to  throw  no  unnecessary  obstacle  in  the  way 
of  our  getting  the  very  best  men  from  these 
provinces.  (Hear.)  But  it  is  further  ob- 
jected that' these  resolutions  do  not  define  how 
the  legislative  eouncillora  are  to  be  chosen  at 


first.  .  I  apprehend,  however,  there  is  no  doubt 
whatever  as  regards  that.  Clause  14-  says : 
"the  first  selection  of  the  members  to  constitute 
the  Federal  Legislative  Council  shall  be  made 
from  the  members  of  the  now  existinc;  leais- 
lative  councils,  by  the  Crown,  at  the  recom- 
mendation of  the  General  Executive  Govern- 
ment, upon  the  nomination  of  the  respective 
local  governments."  The  clear  meaning  of 
this  clause  simply  is,  that  the  present  gov- 
ernments of  the  several  provinces  are  to. 
choose  out  of  the  existing  bodies — so  far  ass 
they  can  find  gentlemen  willing  and  qualified 
to  serve — the  members  who  shall  at  starting 
compose  the  Federal  Legislative  Council; 
that  they  are  to  present  the  names  so  selected 
to  the  Executive  Council  of  British  America 
when  constituted — and  on  the  advice  of  that 
body  the  Councillors  will  be  appointed  by  thf^ 
Crown.  (Hear.)  And  such  has  been  the 
spirit  shown  from  first  to  last  in  carrying  out 
the  compact  of  July  last  by  all  the  parties  to 
it,  that  I  for  one  have  no  apprehension  what- 
ever that  full  justice  will  not  be  done  to  the 
party  which  may  be  a  minority  in  the  Govern- 
ment, but  is  certainly  not  in  a  minority  either 
in  the  country  or  in  this  House.  I  speak  not 
only  of  Upper  Canada  but  of  Lower  Canada 
as  well — 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Ha!  ha! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— My  honorable  friend 
laughs,  but  I  assure  him,  and  he  will  not  say 
I  do  so  for  the  purpose  of  deceiving  him,  that 
having  been  present  in  Conference  and  in 
Council,  having  heard  all  the  discussions  and 
well  ascertained  the  feelings,  of  all  associated 
with  me,  I  have  not  a  shadow  of  a  doubt  on 
my  mind  that  full  justice  will  be  done  in  the 
selection  of  the  first  Federal  Councillors,  not 
only  to  those  who  may  have  been  in  the  habit 
of  acting  with  me,  but  also  to  those  who  have 
acted  with  my  honorable  friend  the  member 
for  Hochelaga.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  believe  I  have  answered  every 
objection  that  has  come  from  any  quarter 
against  the  proposed  constitution  of  the  Fed- 
eral Legislature.  I  am  persuaded  there  is 
not  one  well-founded  objection  that  can  be 
urged  against  it.  It  is  just  to  all  parties;  it 
remedies  the  gross  injustice  of  the  existing 
system ;  and  I  am  convinced  it  will  not  only 
work  easily  and  safely,.but  be  entirely  satis- 
factory to  the  great  mass  of  our- people.  But 
I  go  further ;  I  say  that  were  all  the  objec- 
tions urged  against  this  scheme  sound  and 
coj:ent.  they  sink  into  utter  insignificance  in 
view  ot  ail  the  miseries  this  scheme  will  re- 
lieve .  us  from, — in  y'levr  of  all  the  difficulties 


92 


that  must  surround  any  measure  of  parlia- 
mentary reform  for  Canada  that  could  possi- 
bly be  devised.  (Cheers.)  Will  honorable 
gentlemen  who  spend  their  energies  in  hunt- 
ing out  blemishes  in  this  scheme,  remember 
for  a  moment  the  utter  injustice  of  the  one 
we  have  at  present  ?  Public  opinion  has  made 
rapid  strides  in  tho  last  six  months  on  the  rep- 
resentation question, — ^but  think  what  it  was 
a  week  before  the  present  coalition  was  formed ! 
Remember  how  short  a  time  has  elapsed  since 
the  member  for  Peel  (Hon.  Mr.  J.  Hilly ard 
Cameron^  proposed  to  grant  one  additional 
member  to  Upper  Canada,  and  could  not  carry 
even  that.  Remember  that  but  a  few  weeks 
ago  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr. 
Dorion),  who  now  leads  the  crusade  against 
this  measure,  publicly  declared  that  five  or  six 
additional  members  was  all  Upper  Canada  was 
entitled  to,  and  that  with  these  the  Upper  Cana- 
dians would  be  content  for  many  years  to  come. 
(Hear,  hear. )  And  when  he  has  reflected  on 
all  this,  let  the  man  who  is  disposed  to  carp 
at  this  great  measure  of  representative  reform, 
justify  his  conduct,  if  he  can,  to  the  thousands 
of  disfranchised  freeholders  of  Upper  Canada 
demanding  justice  at  our  hands.  (Cheers.) 
For  myself,  sir,  T  unhesitatingly  say,  that  the 
complete  justice  which  this  measure  secures, 
to  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  in  the  vital 
matter  of  parliamentary  representation  alone, 
renders  all  the  blemishes  averred  against 
it  utterly  contemptible  in  the  balance. — 
(Continued  cheers.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  the 
second  feature  of  this  scheme  as  a  remedial 
measure  is,  that  it  removes,  to  a  large  extent, 
the  injustice  of  which  Upper  Canada  has  com- 
plained in  financial  matters.  We  in  Upper 
Canada  have  complained  that  though  we  paid 
into  the  public  treasury  more  than  three- 
fourths  of  the  whole  revenue,  we  had  less  con- 
trol over  the  system  of  taxation  and  the  ex- 
penditure of  the  public  moneys  than  the 
people  of  Lower  Canada.  Well,  sir,  the 
scheme  in  your  hand  remedies  that.  The 
absurd  line  of  separation  between  the  pro- 
vinces is  swept  away  for  general  matters;  we 
are  to  have  seventeen  additional  members  in 
the  house  that  holds  the  purse ;  and  the  tax- 
payers of  the  country,  wherever  they  reside, 
will  have  their  just  share  of  influence  over 
revenue  and  expenditure.  (Hear,  hear.)  Wc 
have  also  complained  that  immense  sums  of 
public  money  have  been  systematically  taken 
from  the  public  chest  for  local  purposes  of 
Lower  Canada,  in  which  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  had  no  interest  whatever,  though  com- 
pelled to  contribut-e  three-fourths  of  the  cash. 


Well,  sir,  this  scheme  remedies  that.  All  local 
matters  are  to  be  banished  from  the  General 
Legislature ;  local  governments  are  to  have 
control  over  local  aflfairs,  and  if  our  friends  in 
Lower  Canada  choose  to  be  extravagant,  they 
will  have  to  bear  the  burden  of  it  themselves. 
(Hear,  hear.)  No  longer  shall  we  have  to 
complain  that  one  section  pays  the  cash  while 
the  other  spends  it ;  hereafter,  they  who  pay 
will  spend,  and  they  who  spend  more  than  they 
ought  will  have  to  bear  the  brunt.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  was  a  great  thing  to  accomplish 
this,  if  we  had  accomplished  nothing  more, 
— for  if  we  look  back  on  our  doings  of  the  last 
fifteen  years,  I  think  it  will  be  acknowledged 
that  the  greatest  jobs  perjietrated  were  of  a 
local  character — that  our  fiercest  contests  were 
about  local  matters  that  stirred  up  sectional 
jealousies  and  indignation  to  its  deepest  depth. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have  further  complained 
that  if  a  sum  was  properly  demanded  for  some 
legitimate  local  purpose  in  one  section,  an 
equivalent  sum  had  to  be  appropriated  to  the 
other  as  an  ofi"set, — thereby  entailing  prodigal 
expenditure,  and  unnecessarily  increasing  the 
public  debt.  Well,  sir,  this  scheme  puts  an 
end  to  that.  Each  province  is  to  determine 
for  itself  its  own  wants,  and  to  find  the  money 
to  meet  them  from  its  own  resources.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But,  sir,  I  am  told  that  though  true 
it  is  that  local  matters  are  to  be  separated  and 
the  burden  of  local  expenditure  placed  upon 
local  shoulders,  we  have  made  an  exception 
from  that  principle  in  pro^^ding  that  a  subsidy 
of  eighty  cents  per  head  shall  be  taken  from 
the  federal  chest  and  granted  to  the  local 
governments  for  local  purposes.  Undoubtedly 
this  is  the  fact — and  I  do  not  hesitate  to  admit 
that  it  would  have  been  better  if  this  ha'  i  been 
otherwise.  .  I  trust  I  commit  no  breach  of 
discretion  in  stating  that  in  Conference  I  was 
one  of  the  strongest  advocates  for  defraying 
the  whole  of  the  local  expenditures  of  the 
local  governments  by  means  of  direct  taxa- 
tion, and  that  there  were  liberal  men  in  all 
sections  of  the  provinces  who  would  gladly 
have  had  it  so  arranged.  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
there  was  one  difliculty  in  the  way — a  difficulty 
which  has  oftCTi  before  been  encountcrod  in  this 
world — and  that  difficulty  was  simply  this,  it 
could  not  be  done.  (Hear,  and  laughter.)  We 
could  neither  have  carried  it  in  C-onforeuce 
nor  yet  in  any  ono  of  the  existing  prin  incial 
legislatures.  Our  friends  in  Lower  Canada. 
I  am  afraid,  have  a  coustitiitional  disiuclination 
to  direct  taxation,  and  it  was  obvious  that  if 
the  Confederation  scheme  had  had  attached  to 
it  a  provision  for  the  imposition  of  such  a 


93 


system  of  taxation,  my  honorable  friends  op- 
posite would  have  had  a  much  better  chance 
of  success  in  blowing  the  bellows  of  agitation 
than  they  now  have.  (Laughter,  and  cheers.) 
The  objection,  moreover,  was  not  confined  to 
Lower  Canada — all  the  Lower  Provinces  stood 
in  exactly  the  same  position.  They  have  not 
a  municipal  system  such  as  we  have,  discharg- 
ing many  of  the  functions  of  government; 
but  their  General  Government  performs  all 
the  duties  which  in  Upper  Canada  devolve 
upon  our  municipal  councils,  as  well  as  upon 
Parliament.  If  then  the  Lower  Provinces 
had  been  asked  to  maintain  their  customs 
duties  for  federal  purposes,  and  to  impose  on 
themselves  by  the  same  act  direct  taxation  for 
all  their  local  purposes,  the  chances  of  carrying 
the  scheme  of  union  would  have  been  greatly 
lessened.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  I  apprehend 
that  if  we  did  not  succeed  in  putting  this 
matter  on  the  footing  that  would  have  been 
the  best,  at  least  we  did  the  next  best  thing. 
Two  courses  were  open  to  us — either  to  sur- 
render to  the  local  governments  some  source 
of  indirect  revenue,  some  tax  which  the  Gene- 
ral Government  proposed  to  retain, — or  col- 
lect the  money  by  the  federal  machinery,  and 
distribute  it  to  the  local  governments  for 
local  purposes.  And  we  decided  in  favor  of 
the  latter.  We  asked  the  representatives  of 
the  different  governments  to  estimate  how 
much  they  would  require  after  the  inaugura- 
tion of  the  federal  system  to  carry  on  their 
local  machinery.  As  at  first  presented  to  us, 
the  annual  sum  required  for  all  the  provinces 
was  something  like  five  millions  of  dollars — an 
amount  that  could  not  possibly  have  been  al- 
lotted. The  great  trouble  was  that  some  of 
the  governments  are  vastly  more  expensive 
than  others — extensive  countries,  .with  sparse 
populations,  necessarily  requiring  more  money 
per  head  for  local  government  than  countries 
more  densely  populated.  But  as  any  grant 
given  from  the  common  chest,  for  local  pur- 
poses, to  one  province,  must  be  extended  to 
all,  on  the  basis  of  population,  it  follows  that 
for  every  $1 ,000  given,  for  example,  to  New 
Brunswick,  we  must  give  over  $1,300  to  Nova 
Scotia,  $4,000  to  Lower  Canada,  and  $6,000 
to  Upper  Canada — thereby  drawing  from  the 
federal  exchequer  much  larger  sums  than 
these  provinces  needed  for  local  purposes. 
The  course  we  adopted  then  was  this:  We 
formed  a  committee  of  Finance  Ministers  and 
made  each  of  them  go  over  his  list  of  expendi- 
tures, lopping  off  all  unnecessary  services  and 
cutting  down  every  item  to  the  lowest  possible 
figure.     By  this  means  we  succeeded  in  re- 


ducing the  total  annual  subsidy  required  for 
local  government  to  the  sum  of  $2,G30,000 — 
of  which  Lower  Canada  will  receive  annually 
6880,000,  and  Upper  Canada  $1,120,000.  But 
it  is  said  that  in  addition  to  her  eighty  cents 
per  head  under  this  arrangement.  New  Bruns- 
wick is  to  receive  an  extra  grant  from  the 
federal  chest  of  $63,000  annually  for  ten 
years.  Well,  this  is  perfectly  true.  After 
cutting  down  as  I  have  explained  the  local 
expenditures  to  the  lowest  mark,  it  was  found 
that  New  Brunswick  and  Newfoundland  could 
not  possibly  carry  on  their  local  governments 
with  the  sum  per  head  that  would  suffice  for 
all  the  rest.  New  Brunswick  imperatively 
required  $63,000  per  annum  beyond  her 
share,  and  we  had  either  to  find  that  sum  for 
her  or  give  up  the  hope  of  union.  The 
question  then  arose,  would  it  not  be  better  to 
give  New  Brunswick  a  special  grant  of 
$63,000  for  a  limited  number  of  years,  so  that 
her  local  revenues  might  have  time  to  be 
developed,  rather  than  increase  the  subsidy  to 
all  the  local  governments,  thereby  placing 
an  additional  burden  on  the  federal  exchequer 
of  over  eight  hundred  thousand  dollars  per 
annum  ?  We  came  unanimously  to  the  con-  ■ 
elusion  that  the  extra  sum  needed  by  New 
Brunswick  was  too  small  to  be  allowed  to  stand 
in  the  way  of  union — we  also  determined  that  it 
would  be  the  height  of  absurdity  to  impose  a 
permanent  burden  on  the  country  of  $800,000 
a  year,  simply  to  escape  a  payment  of  $63,000 
for  ten  years — and  so  it  came  about  that  New 
Brunswick  got  this  extra  grant — an  arrange- 
ment which  received  and  receives  now  my 
hearty  appro'^al.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  only 
right  to  say,  however,  that  New  Brunswick 
may  possibly  be  in  a  position  to  do  without 
this  money.  The  House  is  aware  that  the 
Federal  Government  is  to  assume  the  debts  of 
the  several  provinces,  each  province  being  en- 
titled to  throw  upon  it  a  debt  of  $25  per 
head  of  its  population.  Should  the  debt  of 
any  province  exceed  $25  per  head,  it  is  to 
pay  interest  on  the  excess  to  the  federal 
treasui-y ;  but  should  it  fall  below  $25  per 
head,  it  is  to  receive  interest  from  the  feder- 
al treasury  on  the  difference  between  its 
actual  debt  and  the  debt  to  which  it  is  en- 
titled. Now,  it  so  happens  that  the  existing 
debt  of  New  Brunswick  is  much  less  than  it 
is  entitled  to  throw  on  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment. It  is,  however,  under  liability  for 
certain  works,  which  if  proceeded  with  would 
bring  its  debt  up  to  the  mark  of  $25  a  head. 
But  if  these  works  are  not  proceeded  with 
New  Brvinswick  will   be   entitled  to  a  large 


94 


amount  of  annual  interest  frpm  the  federal 
chest,  and  that  money  is  to  *be  applied  to  the 
reduction  of  the  sixty-three  thousand    extra 
grant.    (Hear,  hear.)      And  this,  moreover, 
is  not  to  be  forgotten  as  regards  New  Bruns- 
wick, that  she  brings  into  the  union  exten- 
sive railways  now  in  profitable  operation,  the 
revenues  from  which  are  to  go  into  the  federal 
chest.  (Hear.)     A  similar  arrangement  was 
found    necessary   as   regards    the    Island   of 
Newfoundland — it,  too,  being  a  vast  country 
with  a  sparse  population.     It  was  found  ab- 
solutely  essential  that   an    additional    grant 
beyond  eighty  cents  per  head  should  be  made 
to  enable  her  Local  Government  to  be  properly 
carried  on.       But,  in    consideration    of  this 
extra   allowance,  Newfoundland  is  to  cede  to 
the  Federal  Government  her  Crown  lands  and 
minerals — and  assuredly,  if  the  reports  of  geo- 
logists are  well  fcjj^nded,  this  arrangement  will 
be  as  advantageous  to  us  as  it  will  be  to  the 
inhabitants   of  Newfoundland.       I    am   per- 
suaded then,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  House 
will  feel  with  me  that  we  in  Canada  have  very 
little  to  complain  of  in  regard  to  the  subsidies 
for  local  government.     But  if   a    doubt  yet 
remains  on  the  mind  of  any  honorable  member, 
let  him  examine  the  Trade  Returns  of  the 
several  provinces,  and  he  will  see  that,  from 
the  large  quantity  of  dutiable  goods  consumed 
in  the  Maritime  Provinces,  they  have  received 
no  undue  advantage  under  the  arrangement. 
Let  this  too  ever  be  kept  in  mind  that  the 
$2,630,000  to  be  distributed  to  the  local  gov- 
ernments from  the  federal  chest  is  to  be  in 
full   and  final    extinguishment  of  all  claims 
hereafter  for  local  purposes ;  and  that  if  this 
from    any  cause  does  not   suffice,  the    local 
governments  must  supply  all  deficiencies  from 
direct    tax    on  their  own  localities.    (Hear, 
hear.)       And   let   honorable   members   from 
Upper  Canada  who  carp  at  this  annual  sub- 
sidy, remember  for  a  moment  what  we  pay 
now,   and  they  will    cease   their   grumbling. 
Of  all  the  money  raised  by  the  General  Gov- 
ernment   for   local  purposes  in   Canada,  the 
tax-payers  of  Upper  Canada  now  pay  more 
than  three-fourths  ;  but  far  from  getting  back 
in  proportion  to  what  they  contribute,  or  even 
in  proportion  to  their  population,  they  do  not 
get    one-half   of    the  money   spent  for  local 
purposes.     But  how  different  will  it  bo  under 
Federation  !     Nine  hundred  thousand  people 
will  come  into  the  union,  who  will  contribute 
to  the  revenue  (juite  as  much,  man  for  man, 
iis  the  Upper  Canadiims,  and  in  the  distribu- 
tion of  the  local  subsidy  we  will  receive  our 
share  on  the  basis  of  population.      A  very 


different  arrangement  from  that  we  now  endure. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  confess  to  you,  sir,  that  one 
of  the  strongest  arguments  in  my  mind  for 
Confederation  is  the  economical  ideas  of  the 
people  of  thpse  Maritime  Provinces,  and  the  con- 
viction.that  the  influence  of  their  public  men  in 
our  legislatiAre  halls  will  be  most  salutary  in  all 
financial  m'atters.  A  more  economical  people  it 
would  be  .difficult  tp  find  ;  their  prime  min- 
isters and  their  chief  justices  get  but   £600 
a  year,  Halifax  currency,  and  the  rest  of  their 
civil  list  is  in   much   the  same    proportion. 
(Hear,  hear.)     But,  Mr.  Speaker,  there  is 
another  great  evil  in  our  existing  system  that 
this  scheme  remedies  ;  it  secures  to  the  people 
of  each  province  full  control  over  the  adminis- 
tration of  their  own  intemtil  affairs.     We  in 
Upper    Canada    have    complained    that    the 
minority  of  our  representatives,  the  party  de- 
feated at  the  polls  of  Upper    Canada,   have 
been,  year  after  year,  kept  in  office  by  Lower 
Canada  votes,  and  that   all  the  local  patron- 
age  of  our   section   has   been    dispensed   by 
those    who   did  not  possess    the    confidence 
of  the  people.  Well,  sir,  this  scheme  remedies 
that.     The  local  patronage  will  be  under  local 
control,  and  the  wishes  of   the  majority  iu 
each  section  will  be  carried  out  in  all   local 
matters.   (Hear,  hear.)     We  have  complained 
that  the  land  system  was  not  according  to  the 
views  of  our  western  people  ;  that  free  lands 
for  actual  settlers  was  the  right  policy  for  us 
— that  the  price  of  a  piece  of  land  squeezed 
out  of  an   immigrant  was  no    consideration 
in   comparison  with  the  settlement  among  us 
of  a  hardy  and  industrious  family  ;  and  that 
the    colonization   road  system   was  far  from 
satisfactory.     Well,  sir,  this  scheme  remedies 
that.     Each  province  is  to  have  control  of  its 
own   crown  lands,  crown    timber  and  crown 
minerals, — and  will  be  free  to  take  such  steps 
for  developing  them   as  each  deems  best. — 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have  complained  that  local 
works  of  various  kinds — roads,  bridges  and 
landing  piers,  court  houses,  gaols  and  other 
structures — have  been  erected  in  an  inequitable 
and   improvident   manner.      Well,    sir,    this 
scheme  remedies  that ;    all  local  works  are  to 
be  constructed  by   the  localities  and  defrayed 
from  local  funds.  And  so  on  through  the  wholo 
extensive  details  of  internal  local  administra- 
tion will  this  reform  extend.     The  people  of 
ITpper  Canada  will  have  the  entire  control  of 
their  local  matters,  and  will  no  longer  have  to 
betake  themselves  to  Quebec  for  leave  to  open 
a  road,  to  select  a  county  town,  or  appoint  ;i 
coroner.     But  I  am  told  that  to  this  generr.l 
principle  of  placing  all  local  matters  under 


95 


local  control,  an  exception  has  been  made  in 
regard  to  tlie  common  schools.  (Hear,  hear. ) 
The  clause  complained  of  is  as  follows: — 

6.  Education ;  saving  the  rights  and  privileges 
which  the  Protestant  or  Catholic '  wiinority  in 
both  Canadaa  may  possess  as  to  tKeir  Deuomi- 
national  Schools  at  the  time  when  the  ■tJnion 
goes  into  operation. 

Now,  I  need  hardly  remind  the  House  that 
I  have  always  opposed  and  continue  to  oppos* 
the  system  of  sectarian  education,^o  far  as  the 
public  chest  is  concerned.     I  have  never  had 
any  hesitation  on  that  point.     I  have  never 
been  able  to  see  why  all  the  people  of  the 
province,  to  whatever  sect  they  may  belong, 
should  not  send  their  children  to  the  same 
common    schools    to    receive    the     ordinary 
branches  of  instruction.     I  regard  the  parent 
and  the  pastor  as  the  best  religious  instruc- 
tors—and so  long  as  the  religious  faith  of  the 
children  is  uninterfered  with,  and  ample  op- 
tunity  afforded  to  the  clergy  to  give  religious 
instruction  to  the  children  of  their  tflocks,  I 
cannot  conceive  any  sound  objection  to  mixed 
schools.     But  while  in  the  Conference    and 
elsewhere  I  have  always  maintained  this  view, 
and   always  given  my  vote  against  sectarian 
public  schools,  I  am  bound  to  admit,  as  I  have 
always  admitted,    that  the  sectarian  system, 
carried  to  the  limited  extent  it  has  yet  been  in 
Upper  Canada,  and  confined  as  it  chiefly  is  to 
cities  and  towns,  has  not  been  a  very  great 
practical  injury.     The  real  cause  of  alarm  was 
that  the  admission  of  the  sectarian  principle 
was  there,  and  that  at  any  moment  it  might 
be  extended  to  such  a  degree  as  to  split  up 
our  school  system  altogether.     There  are  but 
a  hundred  separate  schools  in  Upper  Canada, 
out  of  some  four  thousand,  and  all   Roman 
Catholic.     But  if  the  Roman   Catholics  are 
entitled   to   separate    schools   and   to   go    on 
extending  their  operations,  so  are  the  members 
of  the  Church  of  England,  the  Presbyterians, 
the  Methodists,  and  all  other  sects.     No  can- 
did  Roman    Catholic   will   deny    this   for   a 
moment ;   and  there  lay  the  great  danger  to 
our    educational    fabric,    that    the    separate 
system  might  gradually  extend  itself  until  the 
whole   country   was    studded   with  nurseries 
of  sectarianisjn,    most     hurtful    to    the   best 
interests  of   the    province,  and   entailing  an 
enormous    expense   to   sustain   the   hosts   of 
teachers  that  so  prodigal  a  system  of  public 
instruction    must    inevitably    entail.       Now 
it  is  known   to  every  honorable   member   of 
this  House  that  an  Act  was  passed  in  1863, 
as  a  final  settlement  of  this  sectarian  contro- 
versy.     I  was  not  in  Quebec  at  the  time,  but 


if  I  had  been  here  I  would  have  voted  agains 
that  bill,  because  it  extended  the  facilities  for 
establishing  separate  schools.  It  had,  how- 
ever, this  good  feature,  that  it  was  accepted 
by  the  Roman  Catholic  authorities,  and  car- 
ried through  Parliament  as  a  final  compromise 
of  the  question  in  Upper  Canada.  When, 
therefore,  it  was  proposed  that  a  provision 
should  be  inserted  in  the  Confederation  scheme 
to  bind  that  compact  of  18G3  and  declare  it  a 
final  settlement,  so  that  we  should  not  be  com- 
pelled, as  we  have  been  since  1849,  to  stand 
constantly  to  our  arms,  awaiting  fresh  attacks 
upon  our  common  school  system,  the  propo- 
sition seemed  to  me  one  that  was  not  rashly 
to  be  rejected.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  admit  that, 
from  my  point  of  view,  this  is  a  blot  on  the 
scheme  before  the  House ;  it  is,  confessedly,  one 
of  the  concessions  from  our  side  that  had  to  be 
made  to  secure  this  great  measure  of  reform. 
But  assuredly,  I,  for  one,  have  not  the  slightest 
hesitation  in  accepting  it  as  a  necessary  condi- 
tion of  the  scheme  of  union,  and  doubly  accept- 
able must  it  be  in  the  eyes  of  honorable  gentle- 
men opposite,  who  were  the  authors  of  the  bill 
of  1863.  (Cheers.)  But  it  was  urged  that 
though  this  arrangement  might  perhaps  be  fair 
as  regards  Upper  Canada,  it  was  not  so  as  re- 
gards Lower  Canada,  for  there  were  matters  of 
which  the  British  population  have  long  com- 
plained, and  some  amendments  to  the  existing 
School  Act  were  required  to  secure  them  equal 
justice.  Well,  when  this  point  was  raised, 
gentlemen  of  all  parties  in  Lower  Canada  at 
once  expressed  themselves  prepared  to  treat  it 
in  a  frank  and  conciliatory  manner,  with  a 
view  to  removing  any  injustice  that  might  be 
shown  to  exist ;  and  on  this  understanding  the 
educational  clause  was  adopted  by  the  Con- 

^Mr.'t.  C.  WALLBRIDGE  —  That  de- 
stroys the  power  of  the  local  legislatures  to 
legislate  upon  the  subject. 

Hon.  Mb.  BROWN— I  would  like  to  know 
howjmuch  "power"  the  honorable  gentleman  has 
now  to  legislate  upon  it  ?  Let  him  introduce 
a  bill  to-day  to  annul  the  compact  of  1863  and 
repeal  all  the  sectarian  school  acts  of  Upper 
Canada,  and  how  many  votes  would  he  get  for 
it  ?  Would  twenty  members  vote  for  it  out 
of  the  one  hundred  and  thirty  who  compose 
this  House  ?  If  the  honorable  gentleman  had 
been  struggling  for  fifteen  years,  as  I  have 
been,  to  save  the  school  system  of  Upper  Can- 
ada from  further  extension  of  the  sectarian 
element,  he  would  have  found  precious  little 
diminution  of  power  over  it  in  this  very  naod_ 
erate  compromise.    And  what  ^ays  the  hen 


96 


orable  gentleman  to  leaving  the  British  popu- 
lation of  Lower  Canada  in  the  unrestricted 
power  of  the  Local  Legislature  ?  The  Common 
Schools  of  Lower  Canada  are  not  as  in  Upper 
Canada — they  are  almost  entirely  non-sectarian 
Roman  Catholic  Schools.  Does  the  honorable 
gentleman,  then,  desire  to  compel  the  Protes- 


tants of  Lower  Canada  to  avail  themselves  of  fitted  the  absolute  necessity  of  constitutional 


Roman  C.itholic  institutions,  or  leave  their 
children  without  instruction?  (Hear  hear,  and 
cheers.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  1  am  further  in 
favor  of  this  scheme  because  it  will  bring  to  an 
end  the  sectional  discord  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  It  sweeps  away  the  boundary 
line  between  the  provinces  so  far  as  regards 
matters  common  to  the  whole  people — it  places 
aU  on  an  equal  level — and  the  members  of 
the  Federal  Legislature  will  meet  at  last  as 
citizens  of  a  common  country.  The  questions 
that  used  to  excite  the  most  hostile  feelings 
among  us  have  been  taken  away  from  the 
General  Legislature,  and  placed  under  the 
control  of  the  local  bodies.  No  man  need 
hereafter  be  debarred  from  success  in  public 
life  because  his  views,  however  popular  in  his 
own  section,  are  unpopular  in  the  other, — for 
he  will  not  have  to  deal  with  sectional  ques- 
tions ;  and  the  temptation  to  the  Government 
of  the  day  to  make  capital  out  of  local  preju- 
dices will  be  greatly  lessened,  if  not  altogether 
at  an  end.  What  has  rendered  prominent 
public  men  in  one  section  utterly  unpopular 
in  the  other  in  past  years?  Has  it  been  our 
views  on  trade  and  commerce  —  immigration 
— land  settlement — the  canal  system — the 
tariff, — or  any  other  of  the  great  questions 
of  national  interest  ?  No,  sir,  it  was  from  our 
views  as  to  the  applying  of  public  money 
to  local  purposes — the  allotment  of  public 
lands  to  local  purposes, — the  building  of  local 
roads,  bridges,  and  landing-piers  with  public 
funds — the  chartering  of  ecclesiastical  insti- 
tutions— the  granting  of  public  money  for 
sectarian  purposes — the  interference  with  our 
school  system — and  similar  matters,  that  the 
hot  feuds  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
have  chiefly  arisen,  and  caused  our  public  men, 
the  more  faithful  they  were  to  the  opinions 
and  wishes  of  one  section,  to  be  the  more 
unpopular  in  the  other.  A  most  happy  day 
will  it  be  for  Canada  when  this  bill  goes  into 
effect,  and  all  these  subjects  of  discord  arc 
swept  from  the  discussion  of  our  Legislature. 
(Hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speakeii,  I  am  further  in 
favor  of  tliis  scheme  as  a  remedial  measure, 
because  it  Itrings  to  an  end  the  doubt  that  has 
80  long  huMg  over  our  position,  and  gives  a  sta- 
bility to  our  future  in  the  eyes  of  the  world  that 


could  not  otherwise  have  been  attended.  (Re- 
peated marks  of  approval,  but  ironical  cheers 
from  Hon.  Mr.  Holton.)  The  hon.  member 
for  Chateauguay  cries  "  hear,  hear  "  in  a  very 
credulous  tone  ;  but  the  hon.  member  should 
be  one  of  the  very  last  to  express  doubts  on 
this  point.     Has  he  not,  for  many  years,  ad- 


changes,  ere  peace  and  prosperity  could  be  es- 
tablished in  our  land  ?  Has  he  not  taken  part 
in  the  contests  to  obtain  those  changes  ?  Ha.s 
he  not  experienced  the  harsh  and  hostile  feel- 
ings that  have  pervaded  this  House  and  the 
whole  country  ?  And  did  he  not  sign  the  re- 
port of  my  committee  last  session,  declaring  a 
Federal  union  to  be  the  true  solution  of  our 
troubles,  political  and  constitutional  ?  And 
does  the  honorable  member  think  these  matters 
were  not  well  known  in  the  United  States, 
and  that  the  hope  of  our  annexation  to  the 
republic  was  not  kept  alive  by  them  from  year 
to  year  ?  Does  he  fancy  that  our  discords 
and  discontent  were  not  well  known  in  Great 
Britain,  and  that  the  capitalist  and  the  emi- 
grant were  not  influenced  by  our  distractions? 
Does  he  fancy  that  people  abroad,  as  well  "as 
at  home,  did  not  perfectly  understand  that 
Upper  Canada  would  not  much  longer  submit 
to  the  injustice  from  wliich  she  suffered — and 
that  until  the  future  relations  of  the  two  sec- 
tions were  adjusted,  no  one  could  predict 
safely  what  our  future  position  might  be  ?  But 
when  the  measure  before  us  has  been  adopted 
— when  justice  has  been  done  to  both  sections — 
when  all  are  placed  on  an  equal  footing — when 
the  sectional  matters  that  rent  us  have  been 
handed  over  to  sectional  control — when  sec- 
tional expenditure  shall  be  placed  on  sectional 
shoulders — will  not  a  sense  of  security  and 
stability  be  inspired,  which  we  never  before 
enjoyed  and  never  could  have  enjoyed  under 
existing  circumstances  ?  (Cheers.)  Viewed 
then,  Mr.  Speaker,  from  a  merely  Canadian 
stand-point — viewed  solely  aa  a  remedial  mea- 
sure— I  fearlessly  assert  that  the  scheme  in  your 
hands  is  a  just  and  satisfactory  remedy  for  the 
evils  and  injustice  that  have  so  long  distracted 
the  province — (cheers) — and  so  strongly  do  I 
feel  tlus,  that  were  every  word  of  objection 
urged  against  our  union  with  the  Maritime 
Provinces  just  and  true  to  the  very  letter,  1 
would  not  hesitate  to  adopt  the  union  as  the 
price  of  a  measure  of  constitutional  roforni  iu 
Canada,  so  just  and  so  complete  as  now  pro- 
posed. (Cheers.)  But,  Mr.SPEAKF.u.sofarfrom 
the  objections  urged  agiiiust  union  with  the 
Maritime  Provinces  being  sound,  so  far  from 
union  with  them  being  a  drawback  to  thia 


97 


measure,  I  regard  it  as  the  crowning  advan- 
tage of  the  whole  scheme.  (Continued  cheer- 
ing.) Sir,  I  make  no  pretension  to  having 
been  in  past  years  an  advocate  of  the  imme- 
diate union  of  the  British  American  Colon- 
ies. I  always  felt  and  always  said  that  no 
statesman  could  doubt  that  such  was  the  best 
and  almost  the  certain  future  destiny  of  these 
colonies ;  but  I  doubted  greatly  whether  the 
right  time  for  the  movement  had  yet  arrived. 
I  knew  little  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  or 
the  feelings  of  their  people ;  the  negotiations 
for  a  union  were  likely  to  be  difficult  and  long 
protracted,  and  I  was  unwilling  to  accept  the 
hope  of  a  measure  so  remote  and  so  uncertain 
in  lieu  of  the  practical  remedy  for  practical 
evils  in  Canada  which  we  were  earnestly  seeking 
to  obtain,  and  which  our  own  Legislature  had 
the  power  immediately  to  grant.  But  of  late, 
sir,  all  this  has  been  changed.  The  circum- 
stances are  entirely  altered.  A  revolution 
has  occurred  in  Great  Britain  on  the  subject 
of  colonial  relations  to  the  parent  state — the 
Government  of  the  United  States  has  become 
a  great  warlike  power — our  commercial  rela- 
tions with  the  republic  are  seriously  threatened 
— and  every  man  in  British  America  has  now 
placed  before  him  for  solution  the  practical 
question,  what  shall  be  done  in  view  of  the 
changed  relations  on  which  we  are  about  to 
enter  ?  Shall  we  continue  to  struggle  along 
as  isolated  communities,  or  shall  we  unite 
cordially  together  to  extend  our  commerce,  to 
develope  the  resources  of  our  country  and  to 
defend  our  soil  ?  But  more  than  this — many 
of  us  have  learned,  since  we  last  met  here,  far 
more  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  than  we  ever 
did  before.  We  have  visited  the  Maritime 
Provinces — we  have  seen  the  country — we 
have  met  the  people  and  marked  their  intelli- 
gence and  their  industry  and  their  frugality — 
we  have  investigated  their  public  aifairs  and 
found  them  satisfactory — we  have  discussed 
terms  of  union  with  their  statesmen  and  found 
that  no  insuperable  obstacle  to  union  exists, 
and  no  necessity  for  long  delay.  We  come 
to  the  consideration  of  the  question  to-day  in 
a  totally  different  position  from  what  we  ever 
did  before — and  if  the  House  will  grant  me 
its  indulgence,  I  think  I  can  present  un- 
answerable arguments  to  show  that  this  union 
of  all  British  America  should  be  heartily  and 
promptly  accepted  by  all  the  provinces. 
(Cheers.)  Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  in  favor  of  a 
union  of  the  British  American  Colonies,  first, 
because  it  will  raise  us  from  the  attitude  of  a 
number  of  inconsiderable  colonies  into  a  great 
and  powerful  people.  (Cheers.)  The  united 
14 


population  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Edward 
Island,  is  at  this  moment  very  close  on  four 
millions  of  souls.  Now,  there  are  in  Europe 
forty-eight  Sovereign  States,  and  out  of  that 
number  there  are  only  eleven  having  a  greater 
population  than  these  colonies  united — (hear, 
hear) — while  three  of  the  eleven  are  so  little 
ahead  of  us,  that  before  the  next  census  is 
taken,  in  1871,  we  shall  stand  equal  in  popu- 
lation to  the  ninth  Sovereign  State  of  Europe. 
(Hear.)  Then,  sir,  the  public  revenues  of 
the  united  provinces  for  1864  were  $13,260,- 
000,  and  their  expenditures  summed  up  to  $12,- 
507,000.  And,  large  as  these  sums  may 
appear,  it  is  satisfactory  to  know  that  the  tax- 
ation of  British  America — were  there  no  re- 
duction from  present  burdens,  which  I  am 
sure  there  will  be — will  be  one-third  less  per 
head  than  the  taxation  of  England  or 
France,  There  are  only  five  or  six  countries 
in  Europe  in  which  the  taxation  is  less  than 
ours  will  be — and  these,  moreover,  are  either 
petty  principalities  or  states  which  do  not 
enjoy  a  very  high  degree  of  civilization. 
(Hear.)  Then,  sir,  as  regards  the  Importe 
and  Exports  of  the  united  provinces,  they 
summed  up  in  1863,  to  the  following  dimen- 
sions : — 

Imports $70,600,963 

Exports 66,846,604 

Total    trade $1.37,447,567 

Now,  sir,  I  should  like  honorable  gentlemen 
to  notice  this  fact,  that  in  1793 — long  after 
the  United  States  had  achieved  their  inde- 
pendence and  established  a  settled  Govern- 
ment— their  exports  and  imports  did  not 
amount  to  one-third  what  ours  do  at  this 
moment.  (Cheers.)  There  are  few  states  in 
Europe,  and  those  with  a  vastly  greater  popula- 
tion than  ours,  that  can  boast  of  anything  like 
the  extent  of  foreign  co  i.merce  that  now  passes 
through  our  hands.  (Hear.)  Then,  sir,  as 
to  our  agricultural  resources,  I  find  that 
45,638,854  acres  have  passed  from  the  gov- 
ernments of  these  colonies  into  private  hands, 
of  which  only  13,128,229  are  yet  tilled,  and 
32,510,625  acres  have  still  to  be  brought  into 
cultivation.  The  whole  of  these  forty-five  mil- 
lions are  picked  lands — most  of  them  selected 
by  the  early  settlers  in  this  country ;  and  if 
our  annual  agricultural  products  are  so  great 
now,  what  will  they  be  when  the  thirty-two 
millions  yet  to  pass  under  the  plough  have 
been  brought  into  cultivation  ? — and  what  will 
they  not  be  when  the  vast  tracts  still  held  by 
Government  are  peopled  with  hardy  settlers  ? 


98 


$550.- 
Then, 
uuited 


(Hear.)  According  to  the  census  of  1861, 
the  value  of  the  agricultural  productions  of 
the  previous  year  in  the  united  provinces  of 
British  America  was  8120,000,000;  and  if 
we  add  to  that  the  garden  prolucts,  and 
the  improvements  made  on  new  lands  by 
the  agricultural  laborers  of  the  provinces, 
it  will  be  found  that  the  actual  product  of 
the  industry  of  our  farmers  in  that  year 
was  $150,000,000.  (Hear,  heai.)  The 
assessed  value  of  our  farms — wliich  is  always 
greatly  less  than  the  real  value — wa: 
000,000  in  the  year  1861.  (Hear.) 
sir,  in  regard  to  the  minerals  of  the 
provinces — what  vast,  fields  of  profitable  indus- 
try will  we  have  in  the  great  coal  beds  of 
Nova  Scotia — in  the  iron  deposits  found  all 
over  the  provinces — in  the  exhaustless  copper 
regions  of  Lakes  Huron  and  Superior  and  the 
Eastern  Townships  of  Lower  Canada — and 
in  the  gold  mines  of  the  Chaudic>re  and  Nova 
Scotia.  And  if  the  mind  stretches  from  the 
western  bounds  of  civilization  throuoh  those 
great  north-western  regions,  which  we  hope 
ere  long  will  be  ours,  to  the  eastern  slope  of 
the  Rocky  Mountains,  what  vast  sources  of 
wealth  to  the  fur  trader,  the  miner,  the  gold 
hunter  and  the  agriculturist,  lie  there  ready 
to  be  developed.  (Hear,  hear.)  Nor  can 
another  source  of  wealth  be  altogether  for- 
gotten. The  President  of  the  United  States 
is  said  recently  to  have  declared  that  the 
produce  of  the  petroleum  wells  of  the  United 
States  will  in  half  a  dozen  years  pay  off  the 
whole  national  debt  of  the  republic.  Well, 
sir,  we  too  have  "  struck  oil,"  and  every  day 
brings  us  intelligence  of  fresh  discoveries — 
(hear,  hear,  and  laughter) — and  if  the  enor- 
mous debt  of  our  neighbors  may  possibly  be 
met  by  the  oily  stream,  may  we  not  hope 
that  some  material  addition  to  our  annual 
industrial  revenue  may  flow  from  our  petro- 
leum regions?  (Hear,  hear.;  Another  vast 
branch  of  British  American  industry  is  the  tim- 
ber and  lumber  trade,  in  the  year  18G2,  our 
Baw-mills  turned  out  not  less  than  772,000,- 
000  feetof  manufactured  lumber, and  our  whole 
timber  exports  sununcd  up  to  the  value  of 
fifteen  millions  of  dollars.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
manufacturing  interests  of  the  provinces,  too, 
are  fast  rising  into  importance  ;  agricultural 
implement  works,  woollen  factories  and  ct)tton 
mills,  tanneries  and  shoe  factories,  iron  works 
and  rolling  mills,  flax  works  and  paper  mills, 
and  many  other  extensive  and  prolitable  me- 
chanical establishments  aresprniging  up  among 
U8,  and  rapidly  cxt<jndiug  their  operations. 
(Hejir,  hear.)     And  to  add  to  all,  we  have 


already  2,500  miles  of  railway,  4,000  miles  of 
electric  telegraph,  and  the  noblest  canal  system 
in  the  world,  but  which,  I  hope,  will  .soon  be 
infinitely  improved.  (Cheers.)  These,  Mr. 
Speaker,  are  some  examples  of  the  industrial 
spectacle  British  America  will  present  after 
the  union  has  been  accomplished  ;  and  I  ask 
any  member  of  tViis  House  to  say  whether  we 
will  not,  when  thus  united,  occupy  a  position 
in  the  eyes  of  the  world,  and  command  a  de- 
gree of  respect  and  influence  that  we  never 
can  enjoy  as  separate  provinces  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
Must  it  not  affect  the  decision  of  many  an 
intendino-  emisjrant,  when  he  is  told  not 
of  the  fishing  and  mining  pursuits  of  Nova 
Scotia,  or  of  the  ship-building  of  New  Bruns- 
wick, or  of  the  timber  trade  of  Lower  Canada, 
or  of  the  agriculture  of  Upper  Canada,  but 
when  he  is  shown  all  these  in  one  view,  as 
the  collective  industrial  pursuits  of  British 
America?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am  persuaded 
that  this  union  will  inspire  new  confidence  in 
our  stability,  and  exercise  the  most  beneficial 
influence  on  all  our  affairs.  I  believe  it  will 
raise  the  value  of  our  public  securities,  that  it 
will  draw  capital  to  our  shores,  and  secure  the 
prosecution  of  all  legitimate  enterprises ;  and 
what  I  saw,  while  in  England,  a  few  weeks 
ago,  would  alone  have  convinced  me  of  this. 
Wherever  you  went  you  encountered  the  most 
marked  evidence  of  the  gratification  with  which 
the  Confederation  scheme  was  received  by  all 
classes  of  the  people,  and  the  deep  interest 
taken  in  its  success.  Let  me  state  one  fact  in 
illustration.  For  some  time  previous  to  No- 
vember last  our  securities  had  gone  very  low 
down  in  the  market,  in  consequence,  as  my 
honorable  friend  the  Finance  Minister  ex- 
plained the  other  niglit,  of  the  war  raging 
on  our  borders,  the  uncertainty  which  hung 
over  the  future  of  this  province,  and  the 
fear  that  we  might  be  involved  in  trouble  with 
our  neighbors.  Our  five  per  cent,  debentures 
went  down  in  the  market  so  low  as  71,  but 
they  recovered  from  71  to  75,  I  think,  upon 
the  day  the  resolutions  for  Confederation, 
which  we  are  now  discussing,  reached  London. 
Well,  sir,  the  resolutions  were  published  in  the 
London  papers,  with  eulogistic  editorial  ar- 
ticles, and  the  innnediate  effect  of  the  scheme 
upon  the  public  mind  was  such  tliat  our  five 
per  cents,  rose  from  75  to  S.>2.     (Hoar,  hear.; 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLrON— What  has  put  them 
down  since  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BilOWN— I  will  presently  tell 
the  honorable  gentleman  what  has  put  them 
down  since.  But  1  say  that,  if  anything 
could    show    more   clearly   than    another  the 


E, 


99 


jfFect  this  union  is  to  have  on  our  position  over 
the  world,  it  is  a  fact  like  this,  that  our  secu- 
rities went  up  17  per  cent,  in  consequence  of 
the  publication  of  the  details  of  our  scheme. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member  for 
Chateauguay  asks,  "What  put  them  down 
again  ?"  I  will  tell  him.  They  remained  at 
91  or  92  until  the  news  came  that  a  raid  had 
been  made  from  Canada  into  the  United 
States,  that  the  raiders  had  been  arrested  and 
brouiiht  before  a  Canadian  Court,  and  that 
upon  technical  legal  grounds,  not  only  had 
they  been  set  free,  but  the  money  of  which 
they  had  robbed  the  banks  had  been  handed 
over  to  the  robbers.  The  effect  of  this  news, 
coupled  with  General  Dix's  order,  was  to 
drive  down  our  securities  11  per  cent,  almost 
in  one  day.  (Hear,  hear. )  But,  as  my  hon- 
orable friend  the  Finance  Minister  suggests, 
this  is  but  an  additional  proof  of  the  accuracy 
of  the  argument  I  have  been  sustaining — for 
this  would  not  have  happened,  at  all  events  to 
the  same  extent,  if  all  the  provinces  had  been 
united  and  prepared,  as  we  are  now  proposing, 
not  only  for  purposes  of  commerce  but  for  pur- 
poses of  defence.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  secondly, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  go  heartily  for  the  union, 
because  it  will  throw  down  the  barriers  of 
trade  and  give  us  the  control  of  a  market  of 
four  millions  of  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  What 
one  thing  has  contributed  so  much  to  the  won- 
drous material  progress  of  the  United  States 
as  the  free  passage  of  their  products  from  one 
State  to  another  ?  What  has  tended  so  much 
to  the  rapid  advance  of  all  branches  of  their 
industry,  as  the  vast  extent  of  their  home 
market,  creating  an  unlimited  demand  for  all 
the  commodities  of  daily  use,  and  stimulating 
the  energy  and  ingenuity  of  producers  ?  Sir, 
I  confess  to  you  that  in  my  mind  this  one 
view  of  the  union — the  addition  of  nearly  a 
million  of  people  to  our  home  consumers — 
sweeps  aside  all  the  petty  objections  that  are 
averred  against  the  scheme.  What,  in  com- 
parison with  this  great  gain  to  our  farmers  and 
manufacturers,  are  even  the  fallacious  money 
objections  which  the  imaginations  of  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite  have  summoned  up  ?  All 
over  the  world  we  find  nations  eagerly  longing 
to  extend  their  domains,  spending  large  sums 
and  waging  protracted  wars  to  possess  them- 
selves of  more  territory,  itntilled  and  uninhabit- 
ed. (Hear,  hear.)  Other  countries  offer 
large  inducements  to  foreigners  to  emigrate  to 
their  shores — free  passages,  free  lands,  and  free 
food  and  impL.ments  to  start  them  in  the 
world.  We,  ourselves,  support  costly  estab- 
Ushment-s  to  attract  immigrant*  to  our  coun- 


try, and  are  satisfied  when  our  annual  outlay 
brings  us  fifteen  or  twenty  thousand  souls. 
But  here,  sir,  is  a  proposal  which  is  to  add,  in 
one  day,  near  a  million  of  souls  to  our  popula- 
tion— to  add  valuable  territories  to  our  domain, 
and  secure  to  us  all  the  advantages  of  a  large 
and  profitable  commerce,  now  existing.  And 
because  some  of  us  would  have  liked  certain  of 
the  little  details  otherwise  arranged,  we  are  to 
hesitate  in  accepting  this  alliance !  (Hear,liear.) 
Have  honorable  gentlemen  forgotten  that  the 
United  States  gladly  paid  twenty  millions  in 
hard  cash  to  have  Louisiana  incorporated  in 
the  Republic  ?  But  what  was  Louisiana  then 
to  the  Americans,  in  comparison  with  what 
the  Maritime  Provinces  are  at  this  moment  to 
Canada?  I  put  it  to  honorable  gentlemen 
opposite — if  the  L^nited  States  were  now  to 
offer  us  the  State  of  Maine,  what  possible 
sum  could  be  named  within  the  compass  of 
our  ability  that  we  would  not  be  prepared  to 
pay  fur  that  addition  to  our  country  ?  (Hear, 
hear. )  If  we  were  offered  Michigan,  Iowa  or 
Minnesota,  I  would  like  to  know  what  sura, 
within  the  co.npass  of  Canada,  we  would 
not  be  prepared  to  pay  ?  These  are  portions 
of  a  foreign  country,  but  here  is  a  people 
owning  the  same  allegiance  as  ourselves,  loving 
the  same  old  sod.  enjoying  the  same  laws  and 
institutions,  actuated  by  the  same  impulses 
and  social  customs, — and  yet  when  it  is  pro- 
posed that  they  shall  unite  with  us  for  pur- 
poses of  commerce,  for  the  defence  of  our 
common  country,  and  to  develope  the  vast 
naturiil  resources  of  our  united  domains,  we 
hesitate  to  adopt  it  !  If  a  Canadian  goes 
now  to  Nova  Scotia  or  New  Brunswick,  or 
it  a  citizen  of  these  provinces  comes  here, 
it  is  like  going  to  a  foreign  country.  The 
customs  otiicer  meets  you  at  the  frontier, 
arrests  your  progress,  and  levies  his  im- 
posts on  your  effects.  But  the  proposal 
now  before  us  is  to  throw  down  all  barriers 
between  the  provinces — to  make  a  citizen  of 
one,  citizen  of  the  whole ;  the  proposal  is, 
that  our  farmers  and  manufacturers  and 
mechanics  shall  carry  their  wares  unquestioned 
into  every  village  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  ; 
and  that  they  shall  with  equal  freedom  bring 
their  fisb,  and  their  coal,  and  their  West  India 
produce  to  our  three  millions  of  inhabitants. 
The  proposal  is,  that  the  law  courts,  and 
the  scliools,  and  the  professional  and  in- 
dustrial walks  of  life,  throughout  all  the 
provinces,  shall  be  thrown  equally  open  to  us 
all.  (ILar,lK;  .r.  But,  thirdly,  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  am  in  favor  of  a  union  of  the  provinces 
because — and  I  call  the  attention  of  honorable 


100 


gentlemen  opposite  to  it — because  it  will  make 
us  the  third  maritime  state  of  the  world. 
(Hear,  hear.)  When  this  union  is  accom- 
plished, but  two  countries  in  the  world  will 
be  .superior  in  maritime  influence  to  British 
America — and  those  are  Great  Britain  and 
the  United  States.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  1863, 
no  fewer  than  628  vessels  were  built  in  British 
America,  of  which  the  aggregate  tonnage  was 
not  less  than  230,312  tons.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  were  built — 

Vessels.  Tons. 

In  Canada .158  with  .  .  .67,209 

<'  Nova  Scotia 207     "    .  .  .46,862 

"  New  Brunswick 137     "         .85,250 

"  Prince  Edward  Island  100     "     ...  24,991 
"  Newfoundland 26     "    ...   6,000 

Total 628 230,312 

Now,  sir,  in  1861 — the  year  preceding  the 
outbreak  of  the  civil  war — all  the  vessels 
built  in  the  United  States,  with  their  vast 
seaboard  and  thirty  millions  of  people,  were 
in  the  aggregate  but  233,193  tons — only 
three  thousand  tons  in  excess  of  the  British 
American  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I 
hesitate  not  to  affirm  that  if  the  people  of 
British  America  unite  cordially  together  in 
utilizing  the  singular  facilities  we  unitedly 
possess  for  the  extension  of  the  shipping  and 
ship-building  interests,  many  years  will  not 
elapse  before  we  greatly  surpass  our  neighbors 
in  this  lucrative  branch  of  industry.    (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— How  much  of  the 
shipping  built  in  that  year  do  we  own  now  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— How  much  of  what 
the  Americans  buiit  in  18 151  do  they  own 
now  ?  Why  is  my  honoi  able  friend  so  anxious 
to  decry  the  industry  of  his  country?  If  we 
have  not  the  ships  it  is  because  we  sold  them, 
and  the  money  is  in  our  pockets,  and  we  are 
ready  to  build  more.  In  1863  we  sold  ships 
built  by  our  mechanics  to  the  large  amount 
of  $9,000,000  in  gold.  (Cheers.)  But  if  my 
honorable  friend  from  Ch  iteauguay  will  permit 
me,  I  am  going  on  to  indoctrinate  him  upon 
the  point  of  the  ownership  of  vessels — 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Don't! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Ah!  my  honoroble 
friend  does  not  require  to  be  instructed  ;  well, 
will  he  tell  us  how  many  tons  of  shipping  are 
now  owned  by  British  .\merica  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  am  aware  that 
most  of  the  vessels  ray  honorable  friend  speaks 
of,  and  the  building  of  which  he  cites  as  ii 
proof  that  we  will  be  a  great  maritime  pijwcr, 
were  sold  abroad.  Building  ships  is  a  good 
thing,  and  soiling  them  is  a  bettor,  but  that 


does  not  prove  us  to  be  a  great  maritime 
power. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— My  honorable  friend 
cannot  eat  his  cake  and  have  it  too.  If  we 
got  SO, 000, 000  for  a  portion  of  the  ships  we 
built  in  1863,  it  is  clear  we  cannot  own  them 
also.  It  did  not  require  a  man  of  great  wis- 
dom to  find  out  that.  (Laughter.)  But  I 
was  going  on  to  show  the  amount  of  shipping 
that  was  owned  in  these  provinces,  I 
hold  in  my  hand  a  statement  of  the  vessels 
owned  and  registered  in  British  America, 
made  up  to  the  latest  dates,  and  I  find 
that  the  provinces  unitedly  own  not  fewer 
than  8,530  vessels,  with  an  aggregate  tonnage 
of  not  less  than  932,246  tons. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Sea-going  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — Sea-going  and  in- 
land. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— (ironically)— Hear, 
hear ! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Why  is  my  honor- 
able friend  from  Chateauguay  so  anxious  to 
depreciate  ?  Is  it  then  so  deplorable  a  thing 
to  own  inland  vessels  ?  None  knows  better 
than  my  honorable  friend  when  to  buy  and 
when  to  sell — and  yet,  I  greatly  mistake  if 
there  was  not  a  time  when  my  honorable 
friend  thought  it  not  so  bad  a  thing  to  be  the 
owner  of  ships  and  steamers  on  our  inland 
seas.  ( Hear,  hear,  and  laughter. )  Am  I 
wrong  in  believing  that  my  honorable  friend 
laid  the  foundation  of  his  well-merited  fortune 
in  the  carrying  trade  of  the  lakes  ? — and  is  it 
for  him,  from  momentary  partisanship,  to 
depreciate  such  an  important  branch  of 
national  industry  ?  What  matters  where 
the  ship  floats,  if  she  is  a  good  and  a  sound 
ship  ? — and  the  inland  tonnage  includes  so 
many  steamers,  that  in  value  it  will  compare 
favorably  with  that  of  the  sea-going.  On  the 
31st  December, — 

Vessels.  Tons. 

1864,  Canada  owned 2,311    ..  2M7,187 

1863,  Nova  Scotia 3,539    .  .  309.554 

imS,  New   Brunswick 891    ,.  211,680 

186.3,  Prince  Edward  Island    .      .360    ..  34,222 

1863,   Newfoundland 1,129    ..  89,603 

Total, 8..->30         932,246 

Now,  sir,  it  is  quite  true  that  the  United 
States  have  a  much  larger  commercial  navy 
than  this,  and  Great  Britain  a  vastly  larger 
one — but  it  is  equally  true  that  the  country 
next  to  them  in  importance  is  France,  and 
that  notwithstinding  her  thirty-tivo  millions 
of  ponple,  large  foroign  trade,  and  extensive 
sea-coaat,  she  owns  but  60,000  tons  of  ship- 


101 


ping  more  than  British  America.  (Hear, 
hear.)  In  1860,  the  aggregate  commercial 
navy  of  France  was  but  996,124  tons.  I 
say  then,  that  even  as  ship-owners,  the  British 
American  Confederacy  will  occupy  from  the 
first,  a  proud  place  among  the  Maritime 
States  of  the  world — and  that  when  all  her 
ships  hoist  a  distinctive  flag  alongside  the 
Cross  of  Red,  there  will  be  few  seas  in  which  it 
will  not  be  unfurled.  And  let  me  here  mention 
a  fact  which  came  under  my  notice  while  re- 
cently in  the  Lower  Provinces — a  fact  of  great 
importance,  and  from  which,  I  think,  we,  who 
are  more  inland,  may  well  profit.  I  learned 
that,  as  in  the  British  Isles,  a  system  of  joint- 
stock  ship-building  has  been  spreading  over 
many  parts  of  the  Maritime  Provinces.  Ships 
are  built  and  owned  in  small  shares — say  in 
sixteenth,  thirty-second,^or  sixty-fourth  parts, 
and  all  classes  of  the  people  are  taking  small 
ventures  in  the  trade.  Most  of  the  ships  so 
built  are  sold,  but  a  portion,  and  an  increasing 
portion,  every  year,  are  sailed,  and  sailed  with 
profit,  by  the  original  joint-stock  builders. 
^Hear,  hear.)  I  was  delighted  to  be  told 
that  some  of  those  clipper  vessels  which  Wc; 
often  hear  of  as  making  wonderful  trips  from 
China  and  India  and  Australia  to  British 
ports,  are  vessels  built  and  owned  in  New 
Brunswick,  under  this  joint-stock  system. 
(Hear,  hear. )  So  much  for  the  building  and 
ownership  of  ships.  Now  let  me  show  you 
what  will  be  the  strength  of  the  united  pro- 
vinces in  seafaring  men.  By  the  census  of 
1861,  it  appears  that  the  numbers  of  sailors 
and  fishermen  were  then — 

In  Canada 5,958 

In  Nova  Scotia 19,637 

In  New  BrunsNvick.  .  . 2,765 

In  Prince  Edward  Island 2,313 

In  Newfoundland 38,578 

Total 69,256 

Whether  regarded  merely  as  a  lucrative 
branch  of  industry,  or  as  affecting  our  mari- 
time position  before  the  world,  or  as  a  bulwark 
of  defence  in  time  of  need,  this  one  fact  that 
British  America  wil)  have  a  combined  force 
of  seventy  thousand  seamen,  appears  to  me  an 
immense  argument  in  favor  of  the  union. 
(Hear,  hear.)  And  let  us  look  at  the  pro- 
ducts of  the  labor  of  a  portion  of  these  men 
— the  fishermen.  From  the  latest  returns  I 
have  been  able  to  meet  with,  I  find  the  joint 
products  of  our  sea-coasts  and  inland  lakes 
were,  in  the  years  named,  estimated  at  the 
following  values: — 


Upper  Canada,  1859 $    380,00e 

Lower  Canada,  1862 708,895 

Nova  Scotia,   1861 2,072,081 

New  Brunswick,  1861 518,530 

Newfoundland,  1861 6,347,730 

Total $10,022,236 

(Hear,  hear.)  I  was  unable  to  find  any 
estimate  as  regards  Prince  Edward  Island, 
but  fancy  the  amount  there  must  be  about 
6200,000.  But,  be  this  as  it  may,  so  valuable 
a  fishing  trade  as  this  of  the  united  provinces 
does  not  exist  in  any  part  of  the  world.  And 
no  doubt  these  estimates  are  far  under  the 
fact,  as  a  large  portion  of  the  delicious  food 
drawn  by  our  people  from  the  sea  and  inland 
waters  could  not  possibly  be  included  in  the 
returns  of  the  fishery  inspectors.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  let  us  observe,  for  a  moment,  the 
important  part  played  by  this  fishing  industry 
in  the  foreign  commerce  of  the  provinces. 
The  exports  of  products  of  the  sea  in  the  year 
1863  were  as  follows : — 

From  Canada $    789,913 

"     Nova  Scotia 2,390,661 

"     New  Brunswick  (1862) 303,477 

"     Newfoundland 4,090,970 

"     Prince  Edward  Island.    ...       121,000 

Total  exports $7,696,021 

Add  to  this,  nine  millions  of  dollars  received 
in  the  same  year  for  new  ships,  and  we  have 
816,696,021  as  one  year's  foreign  exports  of 
our  ship-building  and  fishing  interests.  (Hear, 
hear.)  With  such  facts  before  us  as  the  re- 
sult of  only  a  partially-developed  traffic,  may 
we  not  fearlessly  look  forward  to  the  future  in 
the  confident  hope  of  still  more  gratifying  re- 
sults, when,  by  combined  and  energetic  action, 
a  new  impetus  has  been  given  to  these  valua- 
ble branches  of  industry  ?  But  there  remains 
a  still  more  singular  comparison  to  be  made. 
The  Minister  of  Finance  referred  to  it  last 
night  —  but  he  scarcely  did  justice  to  our 
position,  because  he  excluded  altogether  the 
inland  shipping.  I  refer  to  the  statement  of 
stiips  annually  entering  and  leaving  our  ports. 
Of  course  every  one  comprehends  that  a  la  rge 
amount  of  the  tonnage  entering  and  leaving 
ports  on  the  upper  lakes  is  repeated  in  the  re- 
turns over  and  over  again.  This  is  the  case, 
for  instance,  with  the  ferry  boats  between  the 
American  and  Canadian  shores,  that  carry 
passengers  and  a  small  quantity  of  goods.  It 
would  be  unfair  to  put  down  the  tonnage  of 
such  boats  eveiy  time  they  enter  or  leave  a 
port,  as  foreign  commerce.     Still  there  is  a 


102 


large  amount  of  valuable  shipping  engaged  in 
the  inland  trade,  and  a  vast  amount  of  freight 
is  carried  between  the  countries  ;  and  the  only 
just  plan  is  to  state  separately  that  which  is 
sea-going  shipping  and  that  which  is  inland. 
Acting  on  this  plan,  I  find  that  in  1863,  the 
tonnage  between  Canada  and  foreign  ports 
was  as  follows  : — 

Inwards.  Outwards.  Total. 

Canada 1,041.309  1,091,895  2,133,204 

Nova  Scotia 712,939  719,915  1,432,854 

NewBrunswic    659,258  727,727  1,386,985 

P.  E.  Island,    1862 09,080  81,208        150,288 

Newfoundland 150,578  148,610         305,188 

2,639,164     2,769,355     5,408,519 
Inland  Navigation. 
Canada 3,538,701     3,368,432     6,907,133 

Total  tons 6,177,865     6,137,787  12,315,652 

Now,  sir,  the  United  States  are  in  the  same  po- 
sition as  we  are  in  respect  to  this  inland  traffic, 
and  they  include  it  in  their  returns  as  is  done 
here.  And  what,  sir,  do  you  think  is  the 
difference  between  their  tonnage  and  ours  ? 
Why  ours  is  over  twelve  millions  and  theirs 
is  but  sixteen  millions.  There  are  not  four 
millions  of  tons  of  difference  between  the 
two.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  let  it  be  recol- 
lected that  the  United  States  have  had 
seventy  years  start  of  us.  As  regards 
France,  the  whole  amount  of  shipping  that 
entered  and  left  the  ports  of  that  great 
country  in  one  year  was  but  8,456,734  tons — 
four  millions  of  tons  less  than  that  of  the 
British  American  Provinces.  May  we  not 
then,  when  this  union  is  accomplished,  fairly 
claim  to  be  the  third  maritime  state  of  the 
world  ;  and  may  we  not  even  entertain  the 
hope  that,  at  some  future  day,  a  still  higher 
position  is  not  beyond  our  reach,  when  the 
days  of  puberty  have  been  passed  and  the 
strength  of  manhood  has  been  reached  ?  I 
ask  honorable  gentlemen,  in  looking  at  these 
figures,  to  consider  what  the  effect  naust  be 
when  they  arc  set  down  thus  collectively,  side 
by  side,  in  oilicial  coiniuercial  returns,  in  com- 
parison witli  the  commerce  of  all  the  great 
maritime  states  ?  Will  it  not  strengthen  our 
position  abroad? — will  it  not  give  us  a  degree 
of  influence  and  importance  to  have  it  known 
that  British  Amciiea  wields  so  large  u  sliai'e 
of  the  world's  commerce  ? — And  if  honorable 
gentlemen  will  still  further  consider  the  deep 
importance  to  Canaihi,  in  her  inland  position, 
of  exercising  her  just  influence  in  the  control 
of  so  valuable  a  m  ivitimi;  intrresl,  I  think  (hey 
will  come  lu  Liie  conclusion  thai  ali  the  objec- 
tions urged  against  this  union  arc,  in  the  bal- 
waoe  of  its  advantages,  utterly  contcmptiblo. 


(Cheers.)  But,  in  the  fourth  place,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  go  for  a  union  of  the  provinces, 
because  it  will  give  a  new  start  to  immigration 
into  our  country.  It  will  bring  us  out  anew 
prominently  belbre  the  world — it  will  turn  ear- 


nest attention  to  our  resources, 


and  bring 


to 


our  shores  a  stream  of  immigration  greater, 
and  of  a  better  class,  than  we  ever  had  before. 
I  was  in  England  when  the  first  public  an- 
nouncement of  this  scheme  was  made,  and 
witnessed,  with  pleasure,  the  marked  impres- 
sion it  produced.  You  could  not  go  abroad, 
you  could  not  enter  into  any  company,  in  any 
class  of  society,  where  Canada  or  the  British 
American  Provinces  were  mentioned,  but  you 
heard  this  union  movement  spoken  of  almost 
with  enthusiasm.  And  I  say  it  is  desirable 
that  this  scheme  .should  not  be  delayed,  but 
be  carried  through  promptly  and  vigorously. 
I  hesitate  not  to  say  that  it  should  be  accom- 
panied with  a  vigorous  effort  to  give  a  new 
impetus  to  our  industrial  enterprises,  to  open 
up  fresh  lauds  for  settlement,  and  to  cheapen 
the  transport  of  our  produce  to  the  sea-board. 
With  the  consummation  of  thi.'*  union,  I  trust 
we  will  have  a  new  immigration  and  a  new 
land  settlement  policy — ^that  we  will  ascertain 
every  lot  of  land  we  actually  own,  so  that  a 
printed  list  may  be  placed  in  the  hands  of  every 
immigrant — that  the  petty  price  we  have  been 
heretofore  exacting  will  no  longer  be  exacted, 
but  that  to  actual  settlers,  who  come  among 
us  to  hew  out  for  themselves  and  their  chil- 
dren homes  in  the  forest,  no  burthen  or  condi- 
tion will  be  demanded,  beyond  resident  occupa- 
tion for  a  certain  number  of  years,  and  a  fixed 
amount  of  improvement  on  the  land. — 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Unfortunately  for 
your  argument,  the  lands  will  be  in  the  hands 
of  the  local  governments. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— So  much  the  better. 
My  honorable,  friend  can  manage  his  public 
lands  in  Lower  Canada  as  he  likes,  and  we 
will  manage  ours.  And,  speaking  for  the 
western  section,  I  am  bound  to  say  there  are 
very  few  shrewd  men  in  Upper  Canada  who 
do  not  feel  that  far  more  public  benefit  is  to 
be  gained  from  the  industry  of  a  hardy  actual 
settler  upon  lOU  acres  of  land  given  lo  him 
free,  iliau  the  trumpery  §150  that  can  be 
scjuee/A'd  out  of  him  as  its  price,  the  payiaont 
of  which  keeps  him  in  trouble  pcrhap.s  lor 
years,  and  letards  the  progress  of  the  country. 
On  this  question  of  immigration  turns,  in  my 
oj)ini(»n,  the  whole  future  success  of  this  great 
scheme  wiiich  wo  are  now  di.scussing.  Why, 
sir,  there  is  hardly  a  political  or  fuiancial  or 
social  problem  suggested  by  this  union  that 


103 


does  not  find  its  best  solution  in  a  large  influx 
of  immigration.  The  larger  our  jpopulation, 
the  greater  will  be  our  productions,  the  more 
valuable  our  exports,  and  the  greater  our 
ability  to  develop  the  resources  of  our  country. 
The  greater  the  number  of  tax-payers,  and  the 
more  densely  they  are  settled,  the  more  lightly 
■will  the  burden  of  taxation  fall  upon  us  all. 
And  in  this  question  of  immigration  is  found 
the  only  true  solution  of  the  problem  of  defence. 
Fill  up  our  vacant  lands,  double  our  popula- 
tion, and  we  will  at  once  be  in  a  position  to 
meet  promptly  and  effectually  any  invader 
who  may  put  his  foot  with  hostile  intent  upon 
our  soil.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  this  question 
of  immigi'ation  naturally  brings  me  to  the 
great  subject  of  the  North- West  territories. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  resolutions  before  us 
recognize  the  immediate  necessity  of  those 
great  territories  being  brought  within  the 
Confederation  and  opened  up  for  settlement. 
But  I  am  told  that,  while  the  Intercolonial 
Railroad  has  been  made  an  absolute  condition 
of  the  compact,  the  opening  up  of  the  Great 
West  and  the  enlargiuement  of  our  canals  have 
been  left  in  doubt.  Now,  sir,  nothing  can  be 
more  unjust  than  this.  Let  me  read  the  reso- 
lutions : — 

The  General  Government  shall  secure, 
without  delay,  the  completion  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  from  Riviere  du  Loup,  through  New 
BruDSwick,  to  Truro  in  Nova  Scotia. 

The  communications  with  the  North-West- 
eni  Territory,  and  the  improvements  required 
for  the  development  of  the  trade  of  the  Great 
West  with  the  seaboard,  are  regarded  by  thii 
Conference  as  subjects  of  the  highest  importance 
to  the  Federated  Provinces,  and  shall  be  prose- 
cuted at  the  earliest  possible  period  that  the  state 
of  the  finances  will  permit. 

The  Confederation  is,  therefore,  clearly  com- 
mitted to  the  carrying  out  of  both  these  en- 
terprises. I  doubt  if  there  was  a  member  of 
the  Conference  who  did  not  consider  that  the 
opening  up  of  the  North- West  and  the  improve- 
ment of  our  canal  system,  were  not  as  clearly 
for  the  advantage  of  the  Lower  Provinces  as 
for  the  interests  of  Upper  Canada.  Indeed, 
one  gentleman  held  that  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces were  more  interested — they  wished  to 
get  their  products  into  the  west — they  wanted 
a  back  country  as  much  as  we  did — they 
wanted  to  be  the  carriers  for  that  great 
country — and  they  were,  therefore,  to  say  the 
least,  as  much  interested  in  these  questions  as 
we  were.  But  honorable  gentlemen  lay  stress 
upon  the  point,  that,  while  the  one  enter- 
prise is  to  be  undertaken  at  once,  the  other 
is  not  to  be  commenced  until  the  state  of  the 


finances'  will  permit.  No  doubt  this  is  correctj 
and  the  reason  for  it  is  simply  this  —  the 
money  has  already  been  found  for  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway.  They  must  be  well  aware  that 
the  late  Grovernment (the  Macdoxald-Sicotte 
Administration)  agreed  to  build  the  Intercolo- 
nial Railway,  and  obtained  from  the  Imperial 
Government  a  guarantee  of  the  debentures  for 
building  it — so  that  that  money  is  ready  at  a 
very  low  rate  of  interest,  whenever  required. 
We  know  where  to  find  the  money  for  one  enter- 
prise at  a  rate  we  are  able  to  bear,  and  can  thus 
at  once  go  on  with  a  work  which  must  be  gone 
on  with  if  this  union  is  to  be  consummated. 
But  we  don't  know  this  of  the  other  great 
work — and  we  all  felt  that  it  would  be  exceed- 
ingly indisci'eet — I,  myself,  as  the  special  ad- 
vocate of  opening  up  the  Great  West  and  of 
the  enlargement  of  our  canals, — felt  that  I 
could  not  put  my  name  to  a  document  which 
declared  that  at  all  hazards,  while  our  five 
per  cent,  debentures  were  quoted  at  75  or 
80  per  cent,  in  the  money  market — we  would 
commence  at  once,  without  an  hour's  delay, 
any  great  public  work  whatever.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Honorable  gentlemen  opposite  must  not 
imagine  that  they  have  to  do  with  a  set  of 
tricksters  in  the  thirty-three  gentlemen  who 
composed  that  Conference.  What  we  have 
said  in  our  resolutions  was  deliberately  adopted, 
in  the  honest  sense  of  the  words  employed,  and 
not  for  purposes  of  deception.  Both  works 
are  to  go  on  at  the  earliest  possible  moment 
our  finances  will  permit,  and  honorable  gen- 
tlemen will  find  the  members  of  the  Cabinet 
from  Lower,  as  well  as  from  Upper  Canada, 
actuated  by  the  hearty  desire  to  have  this 
whole  scheme  carried  out  in  its  fair  meaning. 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— Hear,  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT— Hear,  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— When  recently  in 
England,  I  was  charged  to  negotiate  with  the 
Imperial  Government  for  the  opening  up  of 
the  North-West  territories.  In  a  few  days 
papers  will  be  laid  before  the  House, 
it  will  then  be  seen  whether  or  not 
Government  is  in  earnest  in  that  matter, 
the  gentlemen  who  formed  the  Conference 
at  Quebec  did  not  enter  upon  their  work  with 
the  miserable  idea  of  getting  the  advantage  of 
each  other,  but  with  a  due  sense  of  the  great- 
ness of  the  work  they  had  on  hand,  with  an 
earnest  desire  to  do  justice  to  all,  and  keeping 
always  in  mind  that  what  would  benefit  one 
section  in  such  a  union  must  necessarily  benefit 
the  whole.  (Cheers.)  It  has  always  appeared 
to  me  that  the  opening  up  of  the  North-West 
ought  to  be  one  of  the  most  cherished  project^ 


the 
and 

this 
Sir, 


104, 


of  my  honorable  friends  from  Lower  Canada. 
During  the  discussion  on  the  question  for  some 
years  back  I  had  occasion  to  dip  deep  in  North- 
West  lore — into  those  singularly  interesting 
narratives  of  life  and  travels  in  the  North- West 
in  the  olden  time,  and  into  the  history  of  the 
struggles  for  commercial  domainancy  in  the 
great  fur-bearing  regions, — and  it  has  always 
struck  me  that  the  French  Canadian  people 
have  cause  to  look  back  with  pride  to  the  bold 
and  successful  part  they  played  in  the  adven- 
tures of  those  days.  Nothing  perhaps  has 
tended  more  to  create  their  present  national 
character  than  the  vigorous  habits,  the  power 
of  endurance,  the  aptitude  for  out-door  life, 
acquired  in  their  prosecution  of  the  North- 
West  fur-trade.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well  may 
they  look  forward  with  anxiety  to  the 
realization  of  this  part  of  our  scheme,  in 
confident  hope  that  the  great  north-western 
traffic  shall  be  once  more  opened  up  to  the 
hardy  French  Canadian  traders  and  voyageurs. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Last  year  furs  to  the  value  of 
£280,000  stg.  (Sl,400,000)  were  carried  from 
that  territory  by  the  Hudson's  Bay  Company 
— smuggled  off  through  the  ice  bound  regions 
of  James'  Bay,  that  the  pretence  of  the  bar- 
renness of  the  country  and  the  difficulty  of 
conveying  merchandise  by  the  natural  route 
of  the  St.  Lawrence  may  be  kept  up  a  little 
longer.  Sir,  the  carrying  of  merchandise  into 
that  country,  and  bringing  down  the  bales  of 
pc-lts  ought  to  be  ours,  and  must  ere  long  be 
om-s,  as  in  the  days  of  yore — (hear,  hear) — 
and  when  the  fertile  plains  of  that  great  Sas- 
katchewan territory  are  opened  up  for  settle- 
ment and  cultivation,  I  am  confident  that  it  will 
not  only  add  immensely  to  our  annual  agricul- 
tural products,  but  bring  us  sources  of  mineral 
and  other  wealth  on  which  at  present  we  do 
not  reckon,  (Hear,  hear.)  While  speaking  on 
this  question  of  immigration,  I  would  remind 
the  House,  and  it  is  impossible  to  urge  it 
too  strongly,  that  these  provinces  are  now 
presented  to  the  world  in  a  very  disadvantage- 
ous aspect,  as  different  communities.  When  a 
party  in  Europe  thinks  of  emigrating  here,  he 
h;i8  to  ascertain  separately  all  about  New 
Brunswick,  and  Prince  Edward  Island,  and 
Novi  Scotia,  and  Upper  and  Luwer  Canada ; 
and  if  by  chance  he  meets  a  party  from  some  one 
of  these  provinces,  he  has  to  listen  to  a  picture 
of  the  merits  of  that  one  section  in  high  contrast 
to  the  demerits  of  all  the  rest,  and  the  result 
is  tlie  poor  man's  ideas  about  us  become  a  mass 
ol "e(jnl"u,sion.  Un  the  other  hand,  it'  he  seeks 
to  know  the  inducements  for  emigration  to 
New  South  Wales,  or  New  Zealand,  he  gets  it 


in  one  picture — in  an  official  form — and  the 
offer  is  made  to  pay  his  passage  to  these  lands 
of  hope.     A  large  amount  of  emigration,  and 
of  money  which  the  emigrant  takes  with  him, 
are  thus  carried  off  to  a  much  more  distant  land 
than  this,  and  one  that  does  not  offer  equal 
inducements  to  the  settler.     But  how  different 
will  all  this  be  when  these   provinces   stand 
united,  and  present  to  emigrants  a  combination 
of  so  many  branches  of  profitable  industry  ? 
In  turning  over  some  United  States  statistics 
I  recently  fell  upon  a  very  curious  official  cal- 
culation made  by  the  United  States  Grovern- 
ment,  as  to  the  value  of  immigration.     By  the 
census  of  1861  the  population  of  the  United 
States  was  over  thirty  millions ;  and  this  cal- 
culation was  to  ascertain  what  the  population 
would  have  been  had  there  been  no  immigra- 
tion into  the  country,  but  had  the  population 
been  left  to  advance  solely  by  its  own  natural 
increase.     And  what  do  you  think,  sir,  was 
the  result  ?     Why,  it  is  shewn  that  if  the 
United  States  had  received  all  the  immigrants 
that  came  to  them  up  to  1820,  and  then  stopped 
receiving  them — the  population ,  at  this  moment, 
instead  of  thirty  millions,  would  have  been  but 
1-1,601,485.     (Hear,  hear.;     It  is  shewn  that 
if  immigration  had  gone  on   until   1810,  and 
stopped  then,  the  population  now  would  have 
been  only  12,678,562.     Had   it   stopped   in 
1800,  the  population  now  would  have  been 
10,462,944;    and   had   it   stopped   in  1790, 
the  population  now,  instead  of  thirty  millions, 
would  have  been  but  8,789,969.  (Hear,  hear.) 
These,  sir,   are   most  valuable   facts,  which 
should  be  impressed  on  the   mind  of  every 
public  man  in  British  America.     If  we  wish 
our  country  to  progress,  we  should  not  leave 
a  single   stone  unturned  to  attract  the  tide 
of  emigration  in  this  direction ;  and  I  know 
no  better  method  of  securing  that  result,  than 
the  gathering  into  one  of  these  five  provinces, 
and  presenting  ourselves  to  the  world  in  the 
advantageous  light  which,   when  united,  we 
would  occupy.     (Cheers.)     But,  fifthly,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  am  in  favor  of  a  union  of  these 
provinces,  because  it  will  enable  us  to  meet, 
without  alarm,  the  abrogation  of  the  American 
Reciprocity  Treaty,  in  ciise  the  United  Suites 
should  insist  on  its  abolition.     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  do  not  believe  that  the  American  (lovernment 
is  so  insane  as  to  repeal  that  treaty.      But 
it  is  always  well  to  be  prepared  for  contingen- 
cies— and  1  have  no  hesitation  in  saying  that  if 
they  do  repeal  it,  should  this  union  of  British 
America  go  on,  a  fresh   outlet   for  our  com- 
merce will  be  opened  up  to  us  i[uile  as  advau- 
tft><euuii  as  the  American  trade  has  ever  be«o. 


105 


I  have  never  heretofore  ventured  to  make  this 
assertion,  for  I  know  well  what  a  serious  task  it 
is  to  change,  in  one  day,  the  commercial  rela- 
tions of  such  a  country  as  this.  When  the  traffic 
of  a  country  has  passed  for  a  lengthened 
period  through  a  particular  channel,  any 
serious  change  of  that  channel  tends,  for  a  time, 
to  the  embarrassment  of  business  men,  and 
causes  serious  injury  to  individuals,  if  not  to 
the  whole  community.  Such  a  change  we  in 
Canada  had  in  1847.  But  as  it  was  in  1847,  so 
it  will  be  in  1866,  if  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  is 
abolished.  Our  agricultural  interest  had  been 
built  up  on  the  protective  legislation  of  Great 
Britain,  and  in  1847  it  was  suddenly  brought 
to  an  end.  We  suffered  severely,  in  conse- 
quence, for  some  years  ;  but,  by  degrees,  new 
channels  for  our  trade  opened  up — the  Reci- 
procity Treaty  was  negotiated — and  we  have 
been  more  prosperous  since  1847  than  we  ever 
were  before.  And  so,  I  have  not  a  doubt,  will 
it  be  in  the  event  of  the  Reciprocity  Treaty 
being  abolished.  Profitable  as  that  treaty  has 
unquestionably  been  to  us — and  it  has  beea 
more  profitable  to  the  Americans — still,  were 
it  brought  to  an  end  to-morrow,  though  we 
would  suffer  a  while  from  the  change,  I  am 
convinced  the  ultimate  result  would  l^e  that 
other  foreign  markets  would  be  opened  to  us, 
quite  as  profitable,  and  that  we  would  speedily 
build  up  our  trade  on  a  sounder  basis  than  at 
present.  A  close  examination  of  the  working  of 
the  Reciprocity  Treaty  discloses  facts  of  vital 
importance  to  the  merits  of  the  question,  to 
which  you  never  hear  the  slightest  allusion 
made  by  American  speakers  or  writers.  Our 
neighbours,  in  speaking  of  the  treaty,  keep 
constantly  telling  us  of  the  Canadian  trade — 
what  they  take  from  Canada  and  what  Cana- 
da takes  from  them.  Their  whole  story  is 
about  the  buying  and  selling  of  commodities 
in  Canada.  Not  a  whisper  do  you  ever  hear 
from  them  about  their  buying  and  selling 
with  the  Maritime  Provinces — not  a  word 
about  the  enormous  carrying  trade  for  all  the 
provinces  which  they  monopolize — not  a  word 
of  the  large  sums  drawn  from  us  for  our  vast 
traffic  over  their  railways  and  canals — and  not 
a  whisper  as  to  their  immense  profits  from 
fishing  in  our  waters,  secured  to  them  by  the 
treaty.  (Hear,  hear.)  No^  sir,  all  we  hear 
of  is  the  exports  and  imports  of  Canada — all 
is  silence  as  to  other  parts  of  the  treaty.  But 
it  must  not  be  forgotten  that  if  the  treaty  is 
abolished  and  this  union  is  accomplished,  an 
abolition  of  reciprocity  with  Canada  means 
abolition  of  reciprocity  with  all  the  British 
American  Provinces — means  bringing  to  an 

15 


end  the  right  of  the  Americans  to  fish  in  our 
waters ;  their  right  to  use  our  canals ;  their 
right  to  the  navigation  of  the  St.  Lawrence ; 
and  that  it  also  implies  the  taking  out  of  their 
hands  the  vast  and  lucrative  carrying  trade 
they  now  have  from  us.  (Hear,  hear.)  Tt 
must  be  always  kept  in  mind  that  though  the 
United  States  purchase  from  Canada  a  large 
amount  of  agricultural  products,  a  great  por- 
tion of  what  they  purchase  does  not  go  into 
consumption  in  the  States,  but  is  merely  pur- 
chased for  transmission  to  Great  Britain  and 
the  West  India  markets.  (Hear,  hear.)  They 
merely  act  as  commission  agents  and  carriers 
in  such  transactions,  and  splendid  profits  they 
make  out  of  the  business.  But  beyond  this, 
another  lai-ge  portion  of  these  produce  pur- 
chases, for  which  they  take  so  much  credit  to 
themselves,  they  buy  in  the  same  manner  for 
export  to  the  Maritime  Provinces  of  British 
America,  reaping  all  the  benefit  of  the  sea- 
going as  well  as  the  inland  freight — charges 
and  commissions.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  com- 
mercial returns  of  the  Lower  Provinces  show 
not  only  that  the  Americans  send  a  large 
quantity  of  their  own  farm  products  to  those 
provinces,  but  a  considerable  amount  of  what 
they  (the  Americans)  receive  from  us,  thereby 
gaining  the  double  advantage  of  the  carrying 
trade  through  the  United  States  to  the  sea- 
board, and  then  by  sea  to  the  Lower  Provinces. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  hold  in  my  hand  a  return 
of  the  articles  purchased  by  the  Maritime 
Provinces  from  the  United  States  in  1863, 
which  Canada  could  have  supplied.  I  will 
not  detain  the  House  by  reading  it,  but  any 
member  who  desires  can  have  it  for  examina- 
tion. I  may  state,  however,  in  brief,  that  in 
that  year  the  breadstuff's  alone  bought  by  the 
Lower  Provinces  amounted  to  no  less  than 
$4,447,207  —  that  the  import  of  meats, 
fresh  and  cured,  amounted  to  $659,917 — 
and  that  the  total  value  of  products  which  the 
Lower  Provinces  might  have  bought  more 
advantageously  from  us,  summed  up  to  over 
seven  millions  of  dollars.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
Americans  must,  therefore,  bear  in  mind,  that 
if  they  abolish  the  Reciprocity  Treaty,  they 
will  not  only  lose  that  seven  millions  which 
they  now  receive  for  their  products,  but  the 
carrying  trade  which  goes  with  it.  But  on  the 
other  hand,  when  we  have  this  union,  these 
products  will,  as  they  naturally  should,  go 
down  the  St.  Lawrence,  not  only  for  the  ad- 
vantage of  our  farmers — but  swelling  the 
volume  of  our  own  shipping  interests.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  Americans,  hitherto,  have  had  a 
large  portion  of  our  carrying  trade ;  they  have 


106 


brought  us  our  goods — even  our  European 
goods — and  taken  our  produce  not  only  to 
Europe  but  even  to  the  Lower  Provinces  ;  and 
I  say  one  of  the  best  features  of  this  union 
is,  that  if  in  our  commercial  relations  with 
the  United  States  wc  are  compelled  by  them 
to  meet  fire  with  fire — it  will  enable  us  to  stop 
this  improvidence  and  turn  the  current  of  our 
own  trade  into  our  own  waters.  Far  be  it  from 
me  to  say  I  am  an  advocate  of  a  coercive  com- 
mercial policy — on  the  contrary,  entire  freedom 
of  trade,  in  my  opinion,  is  what  we  in  this 
country  should  strive  for.  Without  hesitation, 
I  would,  to-morrow,  throw  open  the  whole  of 
our  trade  and  the  whole  of  our  waters  to  the 
United  States,  if  they  did  the  same  to  us. 
But,  if  they  tell  us,  in  the  face  of  all  the  ad- 
vantages they  get  by  Reciprocity,  that  they  are 
determined  to  put  a  stop  to  it,  and  if  this  is 
done  through  a  hostile  feeling  to  us — deeply 
as  I  should  regret  that  this  should  be  the  first 
use  made  by  the  Northern  States  of  their  new- 
found liberty — then,  I  say,  we  have  a  policy, 
and  a  good  policy  of  our  own,  to  fall  back 
upon.  And  let  me  say  a  word  as  to  the  effect 
of  the  repeal  of  Reciprocity  on  the  Ameri- 
can fishing  interest.  The  Americans,  in  1851, 
had  engaged  in  the  cod  and  mackerel  fishing, 
in  our  waters,  shipping  to  the  extent  of  129,- 
014  tons — but  under  the  influence  of  the 
Reciprocity  Treaty  it  rose,  in  1861,  to  192,- 
6G2 — an  increase,  in  ten  years,  of  upwards  of 
63,000  tons,  or  fifty  per  cent.  (^Hear,  hear.) 
The  repeal  of  Reciprocity  will  give  us  back 
all  this  increase,  and  more,  for  it  will  be  a 
very  different  thing  in  the  future  from  what  it 
was  formerly,  to  poach  on  our  fishing  grounds, 
when  these  provinces  are  united  and  determined 
to  protect  the  fisheries  of  the  Gulf.  This 
fishing  interest  is  one  which  may  bo  cul- 
tivated to  an  extent  difficult,  perhaps,  for  many 
of  us  to  conceive.  But  we  have  only  to 
look  at  the  amount  of  fish  taken  from  our 
waters  by  the  Americans  and  other  nations, 
and  the  advantages  we  possess,  to  perceive 
that,  if  wo  apply  ourselves,  as  a  united  people, 
to  foster  that  trade,  we  can  vastly  increase  the 
great  traffic  we  now  enjoy.  (Hear,  hear.)  On 
the  wliole,  then,  sir,  1  come  firmly  to  the  con- 
clusion that,  in  view  of  the  possible  stoppage 
of  the  American  Reciprocity  Treaty,  and  our 
being  compelled  to  find  new  channels  for  our 
trade,  this  union  presents  to  us  advan- 
tages, in  compyrison  with  which  any  objection 
that  has  been  offered,  or  can  be  offered  to  it,  is 
utterly  insignificant.  (Hear,  hear.)  But, 
Bixthly,  Mr.  Speaker,  1  um  in  favor  of  the 
union  of  the  provinces,  because,  in  the   event 


of  war,  it  will  enable  all  the  colonies  to  defend 
themselves  better,  and  give  more  efficient  aid 
to  the  Empire,  than  they  could  do  separately. 
I  am  not  one  of  those  who  ever  had  the  war- 
fever  ;  I  have  not  believed  in  getting  up  large 
armaments  in  this  country ;  I  have  never 
doubted  that  a  military  spirit,  to  a  certain  ex- 
tent, did  necessarily  form  part  of  the  character 
of  a  great  people  ;  but  I  felt  that  Canada  had 
not  yet  reached  that  stage  in  her  progress 
when  she  could  safely  assume  the  duty  of  de- 
fence ;  and  that,  so  long  as  peace  continued 
and  the  Mother  Country  threw  her  shield 
around  us,  it  was  well  for  us  to  cultivate  our 
fields  and  grow  in  numbers  and  material 
strength,  until  we  could  look  our  enemies 
fearlessly  in  the  face.  But  it  must  be  admit- 
ted— and  there  is  no  use  of  closing  our  eyes 
to  the  fact — that  this  question  of  defence  has 
been  placed,  within  the  last  two  years,  in  a 
totally  diff"crent  position  from  what  it  ever  oc- 
cupied before.  The  time  has  come — it  matters 
not  what  political  party  may  be  in  power  in 
England — when  Britain  will  insist  on  a  re- 
consideration of  the  military  relations  which  a 
great  colony,  such  as  Canada,  ought  to  hold 
to  the  Empire.  And  I  am  free  to  admit  that 
it  is  a  fair  and  just  demand.  We  may  doubt 
whether  some  of  the  demands  tliat  have  been 
made  upon  us,  without  regard  to  our  peculiar 
position  at  the  moment,  and  without  any  at- 
tempt to  discuss  the  question  with  us  in  all  its 
breadth,  were  either  just  or  well-considered. 
But  of  this  I  think  there  can  be  no  doubt,  that 
when  the  time  comes  in  the  history  of  any 
colony  that  it  has  overcome  the  burdens  and 
embarrassments  of  early  settlement,  and  has 
entered  on  a  career  of  permanent  progress  and 
prosperity,  it  is  only  fair  and  right  that  it 
should  contribute  its  quota  to  the  defence  of 
the  Empire.  What  that  quota  ouglit  (o  be,  I 
think,  is  a  matter  for  grave  deliberation  and 
discussion,  as  well  as  the  measure  of  assistance 
the  colony  may  look  for,  in  time  ol"  war,  from 
the  parent  state — and,  assuredly,  it  is  in  this 
spirit  that  the  present  Imperial  Covernment 
is  desirous  of  approaching  the  question. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  am  persuaded  that  nothing 
more  than  that  which  is  fairly  due  at  our 
hands  will  be  demanded  from  us,  and  anything 
less  than  this,  I  am  sure,  the  peoj^le  of  Canada 
do  not  desire.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  the  con- 
versations I  had,  whilt^  in  J'higland,  with  pub- 
lic men  of  dift'eront  polities — while  I  ibund 
many  who  considered  that  the  connection 
between  Canada  and  England  involved  the 
Mother  Country  in  some  d.mger  of  war  with 
the  powerful   state  upon  our  borders,  and  that 


107 


the  colonial  system  devolved  heavy  and  un- 
reasonable burdens  upon  the  Jlother  Country 
— and  while  a  still  larger  number  thought 
we  had  not  acted  as  cordially  and  energetically 
as  we  ought  in  organizing  our  militia  for  the 
defence  of  the  province,  still  I  did  not  meet  one 
public  man,  of  any  stripe  of  politics,  who  did 
not  readily  and  heartily  declare  that,  in  case 
of  the  invasion  of  Canada,  the  honor  of  Great 
Britain  would  be  at  stake,  and  the  whole 
strength  of  the  Empire  would  be  unhesita- 
tingly marshalled  in  our  defence,  (Hear, 
hear.)  But,  coupled  with  this,  was  the  in- 
variable and  most  reasonable  declaration  that 
a  share  of  the  burden  of  defence,  in  peace  and 
in  war,  we  must  contribute.  And  this  stipu- 
lation applies  not  only  to  Canada,  but  to  every 
one  of  the  colonies.  Already  the  Indian  Em- 
pire has  been  made  to  pay  the  whole  expense 
of  her  military  establishment.  The  Austra- 
lian Colonies  have  agreed  to  pay  £40  sterling 
per  man  for  every  soldier  sent  tTiere.  This 
system  is  being  gradually  extended — and  union 
or  no  union,  assuredly  every  one  of  these 
British  American  Colonies  will  be  called  upon 
to  bear  her  fair  share  towards  the  defence  of 
the  Empire,  xind  who  will  deny  that  it  is  a 
just  demand,  and  that  great  colonies  such  as 
these,  should  be  proud  to  meet  it  in  a  frank 
and  earnest  spirit.  (Cheers.)  Nothing,  I 
am  persuaded,  could  be  more  foreign  to  the 
ideas  of  the  people  of  Canada,  than  that  the 
people  of  England  should  be  unfairly  taxed 
for  service  rendered  to  this  province.  Now, 
the  question  presented  to  us  is  simply  this : 
will  these  contributions  which  Canada  and 
the  other  provinces  must  hereafter  make  to  the 
defence  of  the  Empire,  be  better  rendered  by 
a  hardy,  energetic,  population,  acting  as 
one  people,  than  as  five  or  six  separate 
communities  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  There  is  no 
doubt  about  it.  But  not  only  do  our 
changed  relations  towards  the  Mother  Country 
call  on  us  to  assume  the  new  duty  of  military 
defence — our  changed  relations  towards  the 
neighboring  Republic  compel  us  to  do  so.  For 
myself,  I  have  no  belief  that  the  Americans 
have  the  slightest  thought  of  attacking  us.  I 
cannot  believe  that  the  first  use  of  their  new- 
found liberty  will  be  the  invasion,  totally  un- 
provoked, of  a  peaceful  province.  I  fancy  that 
they  have  had  quite  enough  of  war  for  a  good 
many  years  to  come — and  that  such  a  war  as 
one  with  England  would  certainly  be,  is  the 
last  they  are  likely  to  provoke.  But,  Mr. 
Speaker,  there  is  no  better  mode  of  warding 
off  war  when  it  is  threatened,  than  to  be  pre- 
pared for  it  if  it  comes.     The  Americans  are 


now  a  warlike  people.  They  have  large 
armies,  a  powerful  navy,  an  unlimited  supply 
of  warlike  munitions,  and  the  carnage  of  war 
has  to  them  been  stript  of  its  horrors.  The 
American  side  of  our  lines  already  bristles 
with  works  of  defence,  and  unless  we  are  wil- 
ling to  live  at  the  mercy  of  our  neighbors,  we, 
too,  must  put  our  country  in  a  state  of  efficient 
preparation.  War  or  no  war — the  neces- 
sity of  placing  these  provinces  in  a  thorough 
state  of  defence  can  no  longer  be  post- 
poned. Our  country  is  coming  to  be  re- 
garded as  undefended  and  indefensible — 
the  capitalist  is  alarmed,  and  the  immi- 
grant is  afraid  to  come  among  us.  Were 
it  merely  as  a  measure  of  commercial  advan- 
tage, every  one  of  these  colonies  must  meet 
the  question  of  military  defence  promptly  and 
energetically.  And  how  can  we  do  this  so 
efficiently  and  economically  as  by  the  union 
now  proposed  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  already 
shewn  that  union  would  give  us  a  body  of 
70,000  hardy  seamen  ready  and  able  to  defend 
our  sea-coasts  and  inland  lakes ;  let  us  now 
see  what  would  be  the  military  strength  of  the 
Confederation.  By  the  last  census  (1861)  it 
appears  that  the  men  capable  of  bearing  arms 
in  British  America  were  as  follows : — 

Upper  Canada,  from  20  to  60 308,955 

Lower  Canada,  from  20  to  60 225,620 

Nova  Scotia,  from  20  to  60 67,ii67 

New  Brunswick,  from  20  to  60 51.625 

Newfoundland,  from  20  to  60 25i532 

Prince  Edward  Island,   21  to  60. . . .    14,819 

Total 693,918 

With  the  body  of  efficient  soldiers  that 
might  be  obtained  from  this  vast  array  of  men, 
the  erection  of  defensive  works  at  salient 
points,  and  the  force  of  British  troops  that 
would  soon  come  to  our  aid — who  can  doubt 
that  the  invasion  of  our  country  would  be 
successfully  resisted?  But,  seventhly,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  am  in  favor  of  this  union  because 
it  will  give  us  a  sea-board  at  all  seasons  of  the 
year,  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  not  to  be  denied 
that  the  position  of  Canada,  shut  off  as  she  is 
from  the  sea-board  during  the  winter  months, 
is  far  from  satisfactory — and  should  the  United 
States  carry  out  their  insane  threat  of  abolish- 
ing the  bonding  system,  by  which  our  mer- 
chandise passes  free  through  their  territory,  it 
would  be  still  more  embarrassing.  The  Mari- 
time Provinces  are  equally  cut  off  from  com- 
munication inland.  Now,  this  embaiTassment 
will  be  ended  by  colonial  union.  The  Inter- 
colonial Railway  wiU  give  us  at  all  times 
access  to  the  Atlantic  .through  British  terri- 


108 


"go  on  !") — and  must  draw  to  a 
given   reasons 


tory.  (Hear,  hear.)  As  a  commercial  enter- 
prise, the  Intercolonial  Railway  has  not,  I 
apprehend,  any  considerable  merit ;  as  a  work 
of"  defence  it  has,  however,  many  advocates ; 
but,  if  the  union  of  the  provinces  is  to  go  on, 
it  is  an  absolute  necessity  ;  and,  as  the  price 
of  union,  were  there  no  other  argument  in  its 
favor,  I  heartily  go  for  it.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  advantage  it  will  confer  on  the  Maritime 
Provinces  can  hardly  be  over-rated.  It  will 
make  Halifax  and  St.  John  the  Atlantic  sea- 
ports of  half  a  continent — it  will  insure  to 
Halifax,  ere  long,  the  establishment  of  a  line 
of  powerful  steamers  running  in  six  days  from 
her  wharves  to  some  near  point  on  the  west 
coast  of  Ireland — and  it  will  bring  a  constant 
stream  of  passengers  and  immigi-ants  through 
those  Lower  Provinces  that  never  otherwise 
would  come  near  them.  Mr.  Speaker,  I 
could  go  on  for  many  hours  piling  up  argu- 
ments in  favor  of  this  scheme,  but  already  I 
have  detained  the  House  too  long — (cries  of 
*'no,  no; 

close.  But  I  think  I  have 
enough  to  satisfy  every  candid  man  who 
desires  the  advancement  of  his  country,  why 
this  House  should  go  unanimously  and  enthu- 
siastically for  "  the  union,  the  whole  union, 
and  nothing  but  the  union  !"  Before  sitting 
down,  however,  there  are  one  or  two  general 
objections  urged  against  the  scheme  which  I 
am  desirous  of  meeting,  and  I  will  try  to  do 
so  as  briefly  as  possible.  And  first,  sir,  I  am 
told  that  we  should  have  made  the  union 
logislative  and  not  federal.  Undoubtedly  this 
is  a  point  on  which  different  opinions  may  be 
honestly  held  by  men  sincerely  seeking  the 
same  ends — but,  speaking  my  own  views,  I 
think  we  came  to  a  most  wise  conclusion. 
Had  we  continued  the  present  legislative 
union,  we  must  have  continued  with  it 
the  unjust  system  of  taxaticn  for  local  pur- 
poses that  now  exists — and  the  sectional  bicker- 
ing would  have  gone  on  as  before.  And  can 
any  honorable  gentleman  really  believe  that 
it  would  have  been  possible  for  a  body  of  men 
sitting  at  Ottawa  to  admininister  efficiently 
and  wisely  the  parish  business  of  Red  River 
and  Newfoundland,  and  all  the  country  be- 
tween ?  Only  think  of  bringing  suitors  and 
witnesses  such  distances  to  promote  a  bill  for 
closing  a  side-line  or  incorporating  a  club  ! 
And  if  such  a  thing  were  desirable,  would  it 
be  po-^siblc  for  any  body  of  men  to  go  through 
such  a  mass  of  work  ?  Why,  sir,  the  Impe- 
rial Parliament  with  C50  members  sits  for 
eight  months  in  the  year,  and  even  our  Par- 
liament sits  three  or  four  months, — liow  then 


would  it  be  possible  for  the  legislature  of  all 
the  provinces  with  a  thousand  or  twelve  hun- 
dred bills  before  it,  to  accomplish  it  all  ?  The 
whole  year  would  not  suffice  for  it — and  who 
in  these  colonies  is  able  to  sacrifice  his  whole 
time  to  the  duties  of  public  life  ?  But  there 
is  another  reason  why  the  union  was  not 
made  legislative  —  it  could  not  be  carried. 
(Hear,  hear.)  "We  had  either  to  take  a  federal 
union  or  drop  the  negotiation.  Not  only  were 
our  friends  from  Lower  Canada  against  it,  but 
so  were  most  of  the  delegates  from  the  Mari- 
time Provinces.  There  was  but  one  choice 
open  to  us — federal  union  or  nothing.  But 
in  truth  the  scheme  now  before  us  has  all  the 
advantages  of  a  legislative  union  and  a  federal 
one  as  well.  We  have  thrown  over  on  the  lo- 
calities all  the  questions  which  experience  has 
shown  lead  directly  to  local  jealousy  and  dis- 
cord, and  we  have  retained  in  the  hands  of 
the  General  Government  all  the  powers  neces- 
sary to  secure  a  strong  and  efficient  adminis- 
tration of  public  affairs.  (Hear,  hear.)  By 
placing  the  appointment  of  the  judges  in  the 
hands  of  the  General  Government,  and  the 
establishment  of  a  central  court  of  appeal, 
we  have  secured  uniformity  of  justice  over 
the  whole  land.  (Hear,  hear.)  By  vesting 
the  appointment  of  the  lieutenant  governors 
in  the  General  Government,  and  giving  a  veto 
for  all  local  measures,  we  have  secured  that 
no  injustice  shall  be  done  without  appeal  in 
local  legislation.  (Hear,  hear.)  For  all  deal- 
ings with  the  Imperial  Gx>vernment  and  for- 
eign countries  we  have  clothed  the  General 
Government  with  the  most  ample  powers. — 
And  finally,  all  matters  of  trade  and  com- 
merce, banking  and  currency,  and  all  questions 
common  to  the  whole  people,  we  have  vested 
fully  and  unrestrictedly  in  the  General  Gov- 
ernment. The  measure,  in  fact,  shuns  the 
faults  of  the  federal  and  legislative  systems 
and  adopts  the  best  parts  of  both,  and  I  am 
well  persuaded  it  will  work  efficiently  and 
satisfactorily.  (Hear,  hear.)  But,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  am  told  that  the  cost  of  working 
this  Federation  scheme  will  bo  enormous. 
Now,  it  would  be  a  very  ra.sh  thing  of  nic,  or 
of  any  other  person,  to  assert  that  the  ex- 
pense will  not  be  great  ;  for  we  all  know  that 
any  system  of  government  may  be  made  cither 
economical  or  extravagant,  precisely  according 
to  the  di.'^crction  of  those  who  administer  it. 
But  this  I  am  confident  of,  that  with  ordinary 
discretion,  far  from  being  more  costly  than 
the  existing  system,  n  very  considerable  re- 
duction may  be  readily  effect»'d ;  and  one 
thing   is    quite  certain,    that  no    ingenuity 


109 


could  make  it  a  more  costly  or  extravagant 
system  than  the  one  we  have  now.  (Loud 
cries  of  hear,  hear.)  Undoubtedly  the  mode 
in  which  the  local  governments  shall  be  con- 
structed will  very  much  aflfect  the  cost  of  the 
whole  scheme ;  but  if  we  adopt  (as  I  earnestly 
hope  we  will)  simple  and  inexpensive  machinery 
for  local  purposes,  I  am  quite  satisfied  that 
there  will  be  a  reduction  to  the  people  of  Ca- 
nada on  the  amount  they  now  contribute.  I 
have  great  confidence  in  the  economical  efiect 
of  placing  local  expenditures  on  local  should- 
ers, and  in  the  salutary  influence  in  the  same 
direction,  of  the  representatives  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  when  they  come  among  us. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  trouble  is  that 
they  will  spend  our  money — ^not  theirs. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman is  entirely  wrong,  and  I  am  amazed  at 
his  making  such  a  statement.  There  is  no 
portion  of  the  community  that  will  pay  more 
money,  per  head,  to  the  revenue  than  the  peo- 
ple of  the  Maritime  Provinces.  If  the  honor- 
able gentleman  had  turned  up  the  commercial 
returns  of  those  Lower  Provinces  and  calcula- 
ted the  effect  of  our  tariff,  if  applied  to  them 
— or  even  a  tariff  less  than  ours,  for  our 
tariff  must  be  reduced,  he  would  have  known 
that  they  will  bear  their  full  proportion  of 
the  national  burdens.  (Hear,  hear.)  But, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  told  that  the  arrange- 
ment as  to  the  debt  is  unfair — that  we  have 
thrown  on  the  Federal  exchequer  the  whole  of 
the  debts  of  the  Maritime  Provinces,  but  only 
a  portion  of  the  debt  of  Canada.  There  is  not 
a  particle  of  force  in  this  objection.  The 
whole  debt  of  Canada  is  $67,500,000,  but  five 
millions  of  this  is  due  to  our  own  people,  to 
meet  which  there  are  certain  local  funds. 
Now,  if  we  had  thrown  the  whole  $67,500,000 
on  the  Federal  treasury,  we  must  also  have 
handed  over  to  it  tha  local  revenues,  which,  so 
far  as  these  five  millions  are  concerned,  would 
have  been  precisely  the  same  thing.  But,  as 
regards  the  public  debt  with  which  the  Fede- 
ral Government  would  start,  it  would  not  have 
been  the  same  thing.  By  restricting  the  debt 
of  Canada  to  $62,500,000,  we  restricted  the 
debt  oi  the  Maritime  Provinces  to  the  same 
proportion,  or  $25  per  head  of  their  popula- 
tion ;  but  had  we  thrown  our  whole  debt  of 
sixty-seven  and  a  half  millions  on  the  Confed- 
eration, the  proportion  of  debt  for  the  several 
Maritime  Provinces  must  have  been  increased, 
and  the  whole  debt  very  greatly  augmented. 
(Hear.)  But  in  throwing  these  five  millions  on 
the  local  governments  of  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada,  do  we  impose  a  burden  on  them  they 


are  unable  to  bear  ?  Quite  the  contrary — for 
with  the  debt,  we  give  them  the  corresponding 
sources  of  revenue  from  which  to  meet  it.  The 
local  governments  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
will  severally  not  only  have  funds  from  the  sub- 
sidy and  other  sources,  to  meet  all  expenditure, 
but  a  large  surplus  besides.  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  am  told  that  this  Federation  scheme  may  be  all 
very  right— it  may  be  just  and  the  very 
thing  the  country  needs — but  this  Government 
had  no  authority  from  Parliament  to  negotiate 
it.  The  honorable  member  for  Cornwall  (Hon. 
John  S.  Macdonald)  particularly  pressed 
this  objection,  and  I  am  sorry  he  is  not  in  his 
seat. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— It  is  quite  true. 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— No,  the  reverse  is 
true. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  am  astonished  to 
hear  such  a  statement  repeated.  No  one  knows 
better  than  the  honorable  member  for  Chateau- 
guay  and  the  honorable  member  for  Cornwall 
that  in  the  IMinisterial  explanations  brought 
down  to  this  House,  at  the  time  of  the  forma- 
tion of  this  Government,  it  was  distinctly 
declared  that  the  Government  was  formed  for 
the  special  purpose  of  maturing  a  scheme  of 
Federal  union,  and  that  it  would  take  means, 
during  the  recess,  for  opening-  negotiations 
with  the  Maritime  Provinces,  to  bring  about 
such  a  union. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— But  not  to  conclude 
them. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— What  we  have  done 
is  entirely  subject  to  the  approval  of  Parlia- 
ment. The  honorable  member  for  Cornwall 
is  the  very  last  man  who  should  have  raised 
such  an  objection,  for  he  attended  a  caucus  of 
the  liberal  members  of  the  Assembly,  heard 
the  whole  plans  of  the  Government  explained, 
precisely  as  they  have  been  carried  out,  and 
he  was  the  very  person  who  moved  that  I 
should  go  into  the  Government  to  give  them 
effect.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN — And  I  heard  something 
more  said — that  nothing  should  be  done  which 
did  not  leave  the  House  perfectly  free. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  can  assure  my 
honorable  friend  that,  as  far  as  that  goes,  he 
never  was  more  free  in  his  life  than  now. 
(Laughter.)  We  do  not  pretend  to  say  that 
anything  we  have  done  binds  this  House ;  any 
member  may  object  if  he  pleases ;  but  I  do 
say  we  received  the  approval  of  the  House  for 
opening  negotiations,  and  it  is  a  miserable 
pretence  to  say  anything  to  the  contrary. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  did  no  more  than  has 
been   done  by  every  Government,  under  the 


110 


British  system,  that  ever  existed.  We  have 
but  made  a  compact,  subject  to  the  approval 
of  Parliament.  So  far  as  this  Government  is 
concerned,  we  are  firmly  committed  to  the 
scheme ;  but  so  far  as  the  members  of  the 
Legislature  are  concerned,  they  are  as  free  as 
air  ;  but  I  am  confident  that  this  House  will 
almost  unanimously  accept  it,  and  not  with 
changes  and  amendments,  but  as  a  whole — as 
the  very  best  compromise  arrangement  that 
can  be  obtained. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— We  have  not  the 
treaty-making  power. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  remember  a  Gov- 
ernment formed  from  that  side  of  the  House, 
and  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon. 
Mr.  Dorion)  will  remember  it  too,  which 
made  a  treaty  respecting  the  building  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railroad.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Cornwall  was  Premier  of  that  Govern- 
ment, and  it  does  not  lie  in  his  mouth  now  to 
object  to  what  he  himself  did.  But  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  is  entirely  wrong  when  he 
says  we  had  no  power  to  make  this  compact 
with  the  Maritime  Provinces.  We  had  full 
power,  express  instructions  to  enter  into  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Did  the  Parliament 
of  England  give  you  that  power  ? 

Mr.  BROWN— No  ;  the  honorable  gentle- 
man ought  to  know  that  the  treaty-making 
power  is  in  the  Crown — the  Crown  authorized 
us  specially  to  make  this  compact,  and  it  has 
heartily  approved  of  what  we  did.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  told,  that  the 
people  of  Canada  have  not  considered  this 
scheme,  and  that  we  ought  not  to  pass  it  with- 
out appealing  to  the  electors  for  their  approval. 
Now,  sir,  a  statement  more  incorrect  than  this, 
or  more  injurious  to  the  people  of  Canada,  could 
not  be  made.  They  not  only  have  consider- 
ed this  scheme — for  fifteen  yeai-s  they  have 
been  earnestly  considering  it — but  they  per- 
fectly comprehend  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  ever 
question  was  thoroughly  debated  in  any 
country,  the  whole  subject  of  constitutional 
change  has  been  in  Canada.  There  is  not  a 
light  in  which  it  could  be  placed  that  has  not 
been  thoroughly  canvassed  ;  and  if  the  House 
will  permit  me,  I  will  show  from  our  historical 
record  how  totally  absurd  this  objection  is. 
The  question  of  a  Federal  union  was  agitated 
thirty  ycarM  ago,  and  here  is  the  resolution 
adopted  by  both  Houses  of  the  Imperial  Par- 
liament so  far  back  as  1837  : — 

That  great  inconvenience  has  Ijecn  sustained 
by  His  Majesty's  subjects  inhabitinjr  tlio  provinces 
of  Lower  Canada  and  Upper  Canada,  from  tho 
want  of  some  adequate  means  for  regulating  and 


adjusting  questions  respecting  the  trade  and  com- 
merce of  the  said  provinces,  and  divers  other 
questions  wherein  the  said  provinces  have  a  com- 
mon interest  ;  and  it  is  expedient  that  the  legis- 
latures of  the  said  provinces  respectively,  be 
authorized  to  maice  provision  for  the  joint  regu- 
lation and  adjustment  of  such  their  common 
interests. 

In  the  instructions  given  to  Lord  Durhaji 
by  the  Imperial  Government  in  1838,  this 
passage  occurs : — 

It  is  clear  that  some  plan  must  be  devised  to 
meet  the  just  demands  of  Upper  Canada.  It  will 
be  for  your  Lordship,  in  conjunction  with  the 
Committee,  to  consider  if  this  should  not  be  done 
by  constituting  some  joint  legislative  authority, 
which  should  preside  over  .ill  questions  of  com- 
mon interest  to  the  two  provinces,  and  which 
might  be  appealed  to  in  extraordinary  cases,  to 
arbitrate  between  contending  parties  in  either; 
preserving,  however,  to  each  province  its  distinct 
legislature,  with  authority  in  all  matters  of  an 
exclusively  domestic  concern.  If  this  should  be 
your  opinion,  you  will  have  further  time  to  consider 
what  should  be  the  nature  and  limits  of  such 
authority,  and  all  the  particulars  which  ought  to 
be  comprehended  in  any  scheme  for  its  establish- 
ment. 

In  Lord  Durham's  admirable  report  of 
1839,  I  find  this  passage : — 

The  bill  should  contain  provisions  by  which 
any  or  all  of  the  other  North  American  colonies 
may,  on  the  application  of  the  legislature,  be 
with  the  consent  of  the  two  Canadas,  or  their 
united  legislature,  admitted  into  the  union  on 
such  terms  as  may  be  agreed  on  between  them. 
As  the  mere  amalgamation  of  the  Houses  of 
Assembly  of  the  two  provinces  would  not  bo 
advisable,  or  give  at  all  a  due  representation  to 
each,  a  parliamentary  commission  should  be  ap- 
pointed, for  tho  i)urpose  of  forming  the  electoral 
divisions  and  determining  the  number  of  members 
to  be  retm-ned  on  tlie  principle  of  giving  repre- 
sentation as  near  as  may  be,  in  proportion  to 
population.  The  same  commission  should  form 
a  plan  of  local  government  by  elective  bodies, 
subordinate  to  the  general  legislature,  and  exer- 
cising a  complete  control  over  such  local  affairs 
as  do  not  come  within  the  province  of  general 
legislation.  The  plan  so  framed  should  be  made 
an  act  of  the  Imperial  Parliament,  so  as  to  pre- 
vent the  general  legislature  from  encroaching  on 
the  powers  of  the  local  bodies.  A  general  E.\ecu- 
tivo  on  an  improved  principle  should  be  establish- 
ed, together  with  a  supreme  court  of  appeal  for 
all  tho  North  Amerieati  Colonies. 

And  hero  is  the  statement  of  Lord  John 
Russell,  in  1830,  while  introducing  the  origi- 
nal bill  founded  on  Lord  Durham's  report: — 

The  bill  provides  for  the  cstublislimeut  of  a  cen- 
tral district  at  Montreal  and  its  neighbourhood,  at 
which  tho  Government  shall  bo  carried  on,  and 


Ill 


■wliere  the  Assembly  shall  meet.  The  other  parts 
of  Upper  and  of  Lower  Canada  are  each  to  be 
divided  into  two  districts.  It  is  proposed  that 
these  districts  should  be  formed  for  the  purpose  of 
becomiug  municipal  districts,  for  the  imposition 
of  taxes  and  rates,  for  all  local  purposes. 

My  nest  quotation  shall  be  from  tlie  pro- 
ceedings of  a  body  of  gentlemen  who  made  a 
great  commotion  in  their  day  and  generation 
— the  British  American  League.  I  hold  in 
my  hand  the  proceedings  of  the  League  of  3rd 
November,  1849,  and  among  other  names 
mentioned  I  find  those  of  the  Hon.  George 
MoFFATT,  Thomas  Wilson,  the  Hon,  Geo. 
Crawford,  the  Hon.  Asa  A.  Burnham, 
John  W.  Gamble,  Mr.  Aikman,  of  Barton, 
Ogle  R.  Gowan,  John  Duggan,  the  Hon. 
Col.  Fraser,  George  Benjajiin,  the  Hon. 
P.  M.  Vankoughnet,  and  last,  though  not 
least,  the  Hon.  John  A.  Macdonald — of 
whom,  however,  I  find  it  recorded  that  he 
spoke  in  a  very  jocose  manner.  Here  is  the 
resolution  of  the  League  : — 

That  whether  protection  or  reciprocity  shall  be 
conceded  or  withheld,  it  is  essential  to  the  wel- 
fare of  this  colony,  and  its  future  good  govern- 
ment, that  a  Constitution  should  be  framed  in 
unison  with  the  wishes  of  the  people,  and  suited 
to  the  growing  importance  and  intelligence  of  the 
country,  and  that  such  Constitution  should  em- 
brace a  union  of  the  British  North  American 
Provinces  on  mutually  advantageous  and  fairly 
arranged  terms,  with  the  concession  from  the 
;  Mother  Country  of  enlarged  powers  of  self-govern- 
ment. 

I  pass  on  to  1856  when  we  had  the  motion 
and  speech  of  my  honorable  friend  the  Minis- 
ter of  Finance  (Hon.  Mr.  Galt)  in  favor  of 
a  union  of  all  the  British  American  Provinces, 
but,  as  the  whole  House  is  familiar  with  it,  I 
shall  not  read  the  document.  But  in  the  Votes 
and  Proceedings  of  this  House,  of  25th  April, 
1856,  I  find  a  very  remarkable  document.  It 
is  a  notice  of  motion  to  be  made  in  this  House 
— and  its  contents  are  as  follow  : — 

Resolved — 1.  That  the  inconveniences  arising 
from  the  Legislative  L^nion  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada,  render  desirable  the  dissolution  of 
that  union. 

2.  That  a  committee  be  appointed  to  enquire 
into  the  means  which  should  be  adopted  to  torm 
a  new  political  and  legislative  organization  of  the 
heretofore  provinces  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
either  by  the  establishment  of  their  former  terri- 
torial divisions,  or  by  a  division  of  each  province 
so  as  to  form  a  confederation  having  a  Federal 
Government,  and  a  local  legislature  for  each  one 
of  the  new  provinces,  and  to  deliberate  as  to  the 
course  which  should  be  adopted  to  regulate  the 
affairs  of  united  Canada  in  a  manner  which  would 


be  equitable  to  the  different  sections  of    thep  ro 


vmce. 


Hon.  Mr.  CART IER.— Whose  notice  was 
that  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN.— This  notice  of  mo- 
tion was  given  by  my  honorable  friend  the 
member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  DoRiON.) 
(Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION.— It  was  in  amend- 
ment of  that  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Sherbrooke,  which  I  did  not  exactly  like. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— and  which  that 
honorable  gentleman  did  not  venture  to  move, 
so  that  the  House  did  not  pronounce  upon  it. 

Hon.  Mr»  BROWN— But  my  honorable 
friend  fHon.  Mr.  Dorion)  made  a  speech, 
which  I  perfectly  remember.  He  held  this 
motion  in  his  hand  while  he  spoke. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — I  made  a  speech  on 
the  motion  of  the  honorable  member  for  Hal- 
dimand,  Mr.  Mackenzie,  not  on  my  own. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— That  does  not  sig- 
nify. I  seek  not  to  fasten  down  my  honorable 
friend  to  the  views  he  then  held.  Much  light 
has  been  thrown  on  the  whole  subject  since 
1856,  and  I  trust  we  will  all  act  on  our  con- 
scientious convictions  of  what  is  best  for  the 
country  now — without  regard  to  any  opinions 
we  may  at  other  times  have  held.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But  when  my  honorable  friend  and 
others  allege  that  there  never  has  been  in 
Canada  an  agitation  in  favor  of  a  Federal 
system,  and  that  the  people  have  never  con- 
sidered such  a  proposition,  I  think  it  directly 
in  point  to  prove  the  contrary  by  my  honor- 
able friend's  own  proceedings.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  next  step  in  the  constitutional  agitation 
of  the  country  was  the  formation  of  the  Brown- 
DoRlON  Administration.  That  was  in  1858 — 
and  to  show  how  serious  my  honorable  friend 
opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  and  myself  and 
our  ten  colleagues  viewed  the  position  of  the 
country  from  the  denial  of  constitutional 
reform,  I  will  read  the  official  statement  of 
the  basis  on  which  the  Government  was 
formed.  I  read,  sir,  from  the  Journals  of  the 
Legislative  Council  for  1858  : — 

For  some  years  past,  sectional  feelings  have 
risen  in  this  country,  which,  especially  during 
the  present  session,  have  seriously  impeded  the 
carrying  on  of  the  administrative  and  legislative 
functions  of  the  Government.  The  late  Adminis- 
tration made  no  attempt  to  meet  these  difKculties 
or  to  suggest  a  remedy  for  them,  and  thereby  the 
evil  ha3  been  greatly  aggravated.  His  Excel- 
lency's present  Advisers  have  entered  the  Govern- 
ment with  the  fixed  determination  to  propose 
constitutional  measures  for  the  establishment  of 
that  harmony  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 


112 


■wliicla  is  essential  to  the  prosperity  of  the  pro- 
vince. They  respectfully  submit  that  they  have 
a  right  to  claim  all  the  support  which  His  Excel- 
lency can  constitutionally  extend  to  them  in  the 
prosecution  of  this  all-important  object. 

(Hear,  hear.)  Here,  sir,  was  a  Govcrument 
formed  seven  years  ago  for  the  express  purpose 
of  doing  that  which  wc  are  now  engaged  in — 
a  Government  distinctly  telling  the  Governor 
General  that  the  peace  and  prosperity  of  the 
country  were  endangered  because  constitu- 
tional remedies  were  deferred ;  and  yet  my 
honorable  friends  opposite,  who  with  me  were 
rasponsible  for  that  document,  tell  us  that  we 
are  not  now  in  a  fit  position  to  legislate  upon 
this  (question.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  I  come 
next  to  the  famous  despatch  to  the  Colonial 
Minister,  signed  in  1858  by  my  honorable 
friend  the  Minister  of  Finance,  the  Attorney 
General  East,  and  the  Hon.  John  Ross.  It 
stated  that  "  very  grave  difficulties  now  pre- 
sented themselves  in  conducting  the  Govern- 
ment of  Canada'' — that  "  the  progress  of  pop- 
ulation has  been  more  rapid  in  the  western 
section,  and  claims  are  now  made  on  behalf  of 
its  inhabitants  for  giving  them  representation 
in  the  Legislature  in  proportion  to  their  num- 
bers"— that  "  the  result  is  shown  by  an  agita- 
tion fraught  with  great  danger  to  the  peaceful 
and  harmonious  working  of  our  constitutional 
system,  and,  consequently,  detrimental  to  the 
progress  of  the  province" — that  "  this  state  of 
things  is  yearly  becoming  worse" — and  that 
"  the  Canadian  Government  were  impressed 
with  the  necessity  of  seeking  for  such  a  mode 
of  dealing  with  those  difficulties  as  may  for 
ever  remove  them."  What  must  have  been 
the  state  of  public  feeling  when  the  Conserva- 
tive Government  of  1858  ventured  to  use  such 
language  as  this  ? — and  how  can  any  one  pre- 
tend that  the  people  do  not  comprehend  this 
question,  when  .seven  j^ears  of  agitation  have 
passed  since  that  document  was  penned  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  come  to 
a  still  more  important  document— one  that 
goes  into  the  details  and  the  merits  of  just 
such  a  scheme  as  that  before  the  House.  I 
refer  to  the  manifesto  issued,  in  185U,  by  the 
Lower  Canada  members  of  the  liberal  party 
in  this  House.  (Hoar,  liear.)  It  is  very  long, 
and  I  will  only  read  from  it  a  few  extracts : — 

Your  committee  are  impreased  with  the  con- 
viction that  whether  wo  consider  the  present  Heeds 
or  the  probable  future  condition  of  the  country, 
iho  true,  the  statesman-liko  solution  is  to  bo 
sought  in  (lie  substitution  of  a  purely  Federative 
for  1  he  present  so-called  Legislulive  I'nion  ;  the 
former,  it  is  believed,  would  enable  w  to  escape 


all  the  evils,  and  to  retain  all  the  advantages,  ap- 
pertaining to  the  Osisting  union. 

•  •  •  ♦  • 

The  proposition  to  federalize  the  Canadian 
union  is  not  new.  On  the  contrary,  it  has  been 
frequently  mooted  in  Parliament  and  in  the  press 
during  the  last  few  years.  It  was,  no  doubt,  sug- 
gested by  the  example  of  the  neighboring  states, 
where  the  admirable  adaptation  of  the  Federal 
system  to  the  government  of  an  extensive  terri- 
tory, inhabited  by  people  of  divers  orig-ins,  creeds, 
laws  and  customs,  has  been  amply  demonstrated ; 
but  shape  and  consistency  were  first  imparted  to 
it  in  1S5G,  when  it  was  formally  submitted  to 
Parliament  by  the  Lower  Canada  Opposition,  as 
offering,  in  their  judgment,  the  true  corrective  of 
the  abuses  generated  under  the  present  system. 

•  *  •  *  • 

By  this  division  of  power  the  General  Govern- 
ment would  be  relieved  from  those  questions  of  a 
purely  local  and  sectional  character,  which,  under 
our  present  system,  have  led  to  much  strife  and 

ill-will. 

«  •  •  •  • 

The  committee  believe  that  it  is  clearly  demon- 
strable that  the  direct  cost  of  maintaining  both 
the  federal  and  local  governments  need  not  ex- 
ceed that  of  our  present  system,  while  its  enor- 
mous indirect  cost  would,  in  consequence  of  the 
additional  checks  on  expenditure  involved  in  the 
new  system,  and  the  more  direct  responsibility  of 
public  servants  in  the  province  to  the  people  im- 
mediately affected  by  such  expenditure,  be  entire- 
ly obviated. 

•  »  •  •  • 

The  proposed  system  could  in  no  way  diminish 
the  importance  of  the  colony,- or  impair  its  credit, 
while  it  presents  the  advantage  of  being  suscepti- 
ble, without  a!iy  disturbance  of  the  Federal  econ- 
omy, of  such  territorial  extension  as  circumstances 
may  hereafter  render  desirable. 

Now,  sir,  who  were  the  signers  of  the  ad- 
dress?— on  whose  special  responsibility  was 
this  manifesto  sent  forth  to  the  world?  Why, 
it  was  signed  by  my  honorable  friend  opposite, 
Hon.  A.  A.  DoRioN — (cheers  and  laughter) 
—Hon.  T.  1).  McGEE,Hon.  L.  T.  Dri  mmond, 
and  Hon.  L.  A.  Dessaulles,  four  of  the 
most  able  and  most  popular  leaders  of  the 
Lower  Canada  liberal  party — the  party  now 
virulently  opposing  the  resolutions  before  the 
Chair.  (Hear,  hear.)  So  my  honorable 
friend  opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Doiuon)  not  only 
agitated  the  country  for  constitutional  changes, 
but  insisted  tliat  it  should  take  the  sha])o  of 
a  Federal  union,  because  of  the  cheapness  of 
that  system  and  the  facility  it  alVorded  for 
bringing  within  the  federation  the  other 
British  American  Provinces — (choors  and 
laughter) — and  yet,  six  years  alter  the  promul- 
gation of  this  document,  my  lumorable  friend 
gets    uj)    and    repudiates     a    Federal   union 


113 


because  of  its  friglitful  cost  and  because  it  does  : 
bring  within  the  Federation  the  other  British  i 
American  Provinces  !     (Continued  cheering.) 

Mr.  POWELL— Who  wrote  that  docu-  j 
ment  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  cannot  exactly  say  i 
wlio  did  the  composition  ;  but  will  not  my  i 
honorable  friend  from  Chateauguay  (Hon.  Mr.  j 
Holton)  permit  me  to  ask  if  his  hand  is  not  i 
discoverable  in  it?  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
If  so,  he  well  may  be  proud  of  it.  for  it  is  a 
masterly  exposition.  i 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Will  my  honorable  | 
friend  accept  it  as  an  amendment  to  his  . 
scheme  ?  j 

Hon.  3Ir.  GALT — Xo;  oui-s  is  better  than  i 
that !  I 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  come  now  to  the  j 
great  meeting  of  the  Reformers  of  Upper  j 
Canada,  known  as  the  Toronto  Convention  of  j 
1859,  and  at  which  570  delegates  were  present  i 
from  all  parts  of  the  western  province.  Here  \ 
are  the  two  chief  resolutions : —  j 

5.  Resolved, — Thtit  in  the  opinion  of  this  as'  j 
sembly,  the  best  practicable  remedy  for  the  evils  , 
now  encountered  in  the  Government  of  Canada  is  i 
to  be  found  in  the  formation  of  two  or  more  local  ; 
governments,  to  which  shall  be  committed  the  | 
control  of  all  matters  of  a  local  or  sectional  ) 
character,  and  some  joint  authority  charged  with  ! 
such  matters  as  are  necessarily  common  to  both  l 
sections  of  the  province.  i 

6.  Resolved, — That  while  the  details  of  the  \ 
changes  proposed  ia  the  last  resolution  are  neces-  { 
sarily  subject  for  future  arrangement,  yet  this  ' 
assembly  deems  it  imperative  to  declare  that  no  } 
Government  would  be  sati^jfactory  to  the  people  j 
of  Upper  Canada  which  is  not  based  on  the  prin-  j 
ciple  of  representation  by  population. 

Here  we  have  the  very  essence  of  the  mea- 
sure now  before  us  for  adoption — deliberately  ' 
approved  of  by  the  largest  body  of  representa- 
tive men  ever  assembled  in  L^pper  Canada  for 
a  political  purpose  ;  and  yet  we  are  to  be  told 
that  our  people  do  not  understand  the  ques- 
tion, and  we  must  go  to  them  and  explain  it, 
letter  by  letter,  at  an  immense  cost  to  the 
country,  and  at  the  risk  of  losing  the  whole 
scheme!  (Hear,  hear.)  But  let  us  see  what 
followed.  A  general  election  was  ordered  in 
1861 — there  was  a  fierce  contest  at  the  polls 
— and  the  main  question  at  every  hustings, 
wa,s  the  demand  for  constitutional  changes. 
The  result  of  that  contest  was  the  overthrow 
of  the  Cartier-Macdonald  Ministry  and 
the  formation  of  the  3Iacdonald-Sicotte 
Administration  in  its  room.  But  so  bitter  had 
been  the  stru2;2;le  for  and  asrainst  constitu- 
tional  changes,  and  so   clearly  defined  were 

16 


party-lines  upon  it,  that  it  was  found  impos- 
sible to  construct  that  Government  without  a 
distinct  pledge  that  it  would  resist  every 
motion^made  upon  the  subject — 

Hon'  Mr.  HOLTON — Did  you  lecognize 
the  propriety  of  that  course  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— No^  indeed,  I  did 
not.  I  but  cite  the  fact  to  show  how  thor- 
oughly the  whole  question  has  been  agitated, 
and  how  perfectly  its  bearings  have,  for 
years  past,  been  understood.  Well,  sir,  mark 
what  followed.  One  short  year  had  not  passed 
over  the  heads  of  the  Macdonald-Sicotte 
Ministry  before  they  tottered  to  their  fall — 
and  so  repugnant  to  the  House  and  to  the 
country  was  their  conduct  on  the  constitutional 
question,  that  they  dared  not  appeal  to  the 
country  until  they  had  changed  their  avowed 
policy  upon  it.  and  replaced  the  men 
who  had  forced  upon  them  the  narrow 
policy  of  the  year  before,  by  gentlemen 
understood  to  be  more  in  favor  of  con- 
stitutional changes.  The  Government  (Mac- 
DONALD-DoRiONj,  SO  reconstructed,  went  to 
the  country  in  18'33,  but  in  the  year  follow- 
ing it,  too.  fell  in  its  turn,  simply  because  it 
did  not  deal  boldly  with  the  constitutional 
question — 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— We  had  the  support 
of  all  who  were  in  favor  of  the  question. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Indeed,  you  had  not. 

PIoN.  Mr.  HOLTON- Vfe  should  have 
fallen  if  we  had  attempted  to  deal  with  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  entirely  deny  that; 
had  you  pursued  a  bold  policy  upon  it  you 
might  have  been  in  office  up  to  this  hour. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Well,  sir,  the  Macdonald- 
DoRiON  made  way  for  the  Tach^-Macdon- 
ALD  Administration — but  it,  too,  soon  fell  by 
a  majority  of  two,  simply  because  it  did  not 
deal  with  the  constitutional  question — 

A  VOICE— Oh,  oh  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  BRO^WN— My  honorable  friend 
cries  ''oh,  oh,"  and  I  am  perfectly  amazed  at 
his  doing  so.  I  am  about  to  oifer  my  honor- 
able friend  the  most  complete  proof  of  the  cor- 
rectness of  my  statement — proof  so  conclusive 
that  if  he  does  not  accept  of  it  as  such,  I  do 
not  know  how  he  can  be  con-\dnced  of  anything. 
In  one  single  day  the  Tach6-Macdonald 
Administration,  by  taking  up  the  constitu- 
tional question  boldly,  turned  their  minority 
of  two  into  a  majority  of  seventy.  (Loud  cries 
of  hear,  hear.;  Could  anything  prove  more 
unanswerably  than  this  the  deep  hold  this 
question  has  on  the  public  mind,  and  the  as- 
sured confidence  of  the  members  of  this  House 
that  their  constituents  understand  its  whole 


114 


merits,  when,  in  one  day,  such  a  startling  poli- 
tical revolution  was  brought  about  ?     Was  it, 
think  you,  a  doubtful  consideration  that  could 
have  induced  the  I'ppcr  Canada  Opposition, 
almost  as  one  man,  to  cast  down  their  party 
intrenchments  and  make  common  cause  with 
their  opponents  ?     Could  there  have  been  the 
slightest  doubt  as  to  the  sentiments  of  our 
people  and  the  imperative  necessity  of  inmic- 
diate   action,  when  such  men  as  now  sit  on 
the  treasury  benches,  were  forced,  by  their 
supporters,  to  unite  for  the  settlement  of  this 
question  ?     And  could  there  be  a  more  con- 
clusive proof  of  the  ripeness  of  public  opinion 
than  the   unanimous  and  cordial  manner  in 
which   our    so   uniting  has    been    sustained 
by  the  press  of  all  parties,  and  by  the  elec- 
tors   at    the  polls?     (Hear,    hear.)     Never, 
I  venture  to  assert,  was  any  great  measure  so 
thoroughly  understood,  and  so  cordially  en- 
dorsed by  the  people  of  Canada,  as  this  measure 
now   under  consideration.     (Hear,   hear.) — 
The  British  Government  approves  of  it — the 
Legislative    Council    approves    of   it  —  this 
House  almost  unaniuiously  approves  of  it — 
the   press    of   all  parties    approves   of    it — 
and  though  the  scheme  has  already  been  di- 
rectly submitted  to  fifty  out  of  the  one  hun- 
dred constituencies  into  which  Canada  is  di- 
vided, only  four  candidates  ventured  to  appear 
at  the  hustings  in  opposition   to  it  —  all  of 
them  in  Lower  Canada — and  but  two  of  them 
wore  elected.  (Cheers.)     And  yet,  sir,  we  are 
to  be  told  that  we  are  stealing  a  march  upon 
the  country  ;  that  it  is  not  under-tood  by  the 
people ;  and  that  we  must  dissolve  the  House 
upon  it,  at  a  vast  cost  to  the  exchequer,  and 
at  the  risk  of  allowing  political  partisanship 
to  dash  the  fruit  from  our  hands  at  the  very 
moment  we   are  about  to  grasp  it  1     (flear, 
he;r.)     Sir,  1  have  no  fears  whatever  of  an 
appeal  to  the  people.      I  cannot  pretend  to 
speak  as  to  the  popular  feeling  in  Lower  Can- 
ada, but  I  think  1  thoroughly  understand  the 
popular  mind   of  the  western  province,   and 
I  hesitate  not  to  say  that  there  are  not  five 
gentlemen  in  this  chamber  (if  bo  many)  who 
could  go  belbre  their  constituents  in   Upper 
Canada  in  opposition  to  this  scheme,  with  the 
slightest  chance  of   being  returned.    (Hear, 
hear.)     It  is  because   1   thoroughly  compre- 
hend the  feelings  of  the  people  upon  it,  that 
1  urge  the  adoption  of  tliis    nica.^uro   at   the 
earliest  posfuiblc  moment.      The    most  gross 
injustice  is  to  be  rectified  by  it ;   thi^  tax-payer 
is  to  be  clothed  with  his  rightful  infiucnee  by 
it ;  new  commercial  relations  are  to  be  opened 
up  by  it ;    a  new  impulse  to  the  industrial 


pursuits  of  the  country  will  be  given  by  it — 
and  I  for  one  would  feel  myself  false  to  the 
cause  I  have  so  long  sustained,  and  false  Ui 
the  best  interests    of   my  constituents,  if  I 
permitted  one  hour  unnecessarily  to  pass  with- 
out bringing  it  to  a  final  issue.  (Cheers.)     It 
was  only  by  the  concurrence  of  most  propiti- 
ous circumstances  that  the  wonderful  progress 
this  movement  has  made  could  have  been  ac- 
complished.    Most  peculiar  were  the  circum- 
stances that  enabled  such  a  coalition  to  be 
formed  as  that  now  existing  for  the  settlement 
of  this  question — and  who  shall  say  at  what 
hour  it  may  not  be  rent  asunder  ?     And  yet, 
who  will  venture  to  affirm  that  if  party  spirit 
in  all  its  fierceness  were  once  more  to  be  let 
loose  amongst  us,  there  would  be  the  slightest 
hope  that  this  great  question    could  be  ap- 
proached with  that  candor  and  harmony  neces- 
sary to  its  satisfactory  solution  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
^hen,  sir.  at  the  very  moment  we  resolved  to 
deal  with  this  question  of  constitutional  change, 
the  3Iaritime  Provinces  were  about  to  assem- 
ble in    joint   conference  to  consider  whether 
they  ought  not  to  form  a  union  among  them- 
selves— and  the  way  was  thus  most  propitiously 
opened  up  for  the  consideration  of  a  union  of 
all  British  America.     The  civil  war  too,  in 
the  neighboring  republic ;    the  possibility  of 
war  between  trreat  Britain  and  the  United 
States;  the  threatened  repeal  of  the  Recipro- 
city Treaty ;  the  threatened  abolition  of  the 
American     L  ending    system*  for    goods     in 
transitu  to  and  from  these  pro»i  ces  ;  the  un- 
settled position  of  the  Hudson's  Bay  Company; 
and  the   changed  feeling  of    England  as  to 
the  relations  of  great  colonies  to  the   parent 
state  ; — all  combine  at  this  moment  to  arrest 
earnest  attention  to  the  gravity   of  the  .situa- 
tion, and  unite  us  all  in  one  vigorous  effort  to 
meet  the  emergency  like  men.     (Hear,  hear.) 
The  interests  to  be  affected  by  this  scheme  o£ 
union  arc  very  large  and  varied — but  the  pres- 
sure of  cireumstiiuees  upon  all  the  colonics  is  so 
serious  at  this  n;oment,  tliat  if  we  cannot  now 
banish    partisanship    and    sectionalism     and 
petty  objections,  and  look  at  the  matter  on  its 
broad  intrinsic   )nerits,  what  hope  is  there  of 
our  ever  being  able  to  do  so  ?     An  appeal  to 
the  people  of  Canada  on  tliis  measure  simply 
mc:ins    postpojienient   of  the   question  for  a 
year — and  who  can  toll  how  changed  ore  then 
may    be  the  circumstances  .»;urii)uiiding  us  ? 
Sir,  the  man  who  strives  for  the  postponement 
of  this  nu'asure  on  any  gronml,  is  doing  what 
ho  can  tu  kill  it  aluinst  as  clKctually  as  if  ho 
voted  against  it.    (Hear,  hen  .)     Let  there  be 
no  mistake  us  to  the  mann  r    in  which  the 


115 


Government  presents  thia  measure  to  the 
House.  We  do  not  present  it  as  free  from 
fault,  but  we  do  present  it  as  a  measure  so 
advantageous  to  the  people  of  Canada,  that 
all  the  blemishes,  real  or  imaginary,  averred 
against  it,  sink  into  utter  insignificance  in 
presence  of  its  merits.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  pre- 
sent it,  not  in  the  precise  shape  we  in  Canada 
would  desire  it,  but  as  in  the  best  shape  the  five 
colonies  to  be  united  could  agree  upon  it.  We 
present  it  in  the  form  in  which  the  five  gov- 
ernments have  severally  adopted  it — in  the 
form  the  Imperial  Government  has  endorsed  it 
— and  in  the  form  in  which  we  believe  all  the 
legisla'ures  of  the  provinces  will  accept  it. 
(Hear,  hear. )  We  ask  the  House  to  pass  it 
in  the  exact  form  in  which  we  have  presented 
it,  for  we  know  not  how  alterations  may  aifect 
its  safety  in  other  places,  and  the  process  of 
alteration  once  commenced  in  four  difi"erent  le- 
gislatures— who  can  tell-where  that  would  end  ? 
Every  member  of  this  House  is  free  as  air  to 
criticise  it  if  he  so  wills,  and  amend  it  if  he  is 
able — but  we  warn  him  of  the  danger  of 
amendment,  and  throw  on  him  all  the  respon- 
sibility of  the  con.sequences.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  feel  confident  of  carrying  this  scheme  as  it 
stands — but  we  cannot  tell  what  we  can  do  if 
it  be  amended.  (Hear,  hear.)  Let  not  hon- 
orable gentlemen  approach  this  measure  as  a 
sharp  critic  deals  with  an  abstract  question, 
striving  to  point  out  blemishes  and  display 
his  ingenuity  ;  but  let  us  approach  it  as  men 
having  bat  one  consideration  before  us — the 
establishment  of  the  future  peace  and  pros- 
perity of  our  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  Let  us 
look  at  it  in  the  light  of  a  few  months  back — 
m  the  light  of  the  evils  and  injustice  to  which 
it  applies  a  remedy — in  the  light  of  the  years 
of  discord  and  strife  we  have  spent  in  seeking 
for  that  remedy — in  the  light  with  which  the 
people  of  Canada  would  regard  this  measure 
were  it  to  be  lost,  and  all  the  evils  of  past 
years  to  be  brought  back  upon  us  again. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Let  honorable  gentlemen  look 
at  the  question  in  this  view — and  what  one  of 
them  will  take  the  responsibility  of  casting  his 
vote  against  the  measure  ?  Sir,  the  future 
destiny  of  these  great  pro\'inces  may  be 
affected  by  the  decision  we  are  about  to  give 
to  an  extent  which  at  this  moment  we  may  be 
unable  to  estimate — but  assuredly  the  welfare 
for  many  years  of  four  millions  of  people 
hangs  on  our  decision.  (Hear,  hear.)  Shall 
we  then  rise  equal  to  the  occasion  ? — shall  we 
approach  this  discussion  without  partisanship, 
and  free  from  evei-y  personal  feeling  but  the 
earnest  resolution  to  discharge  conscientiously 


the  duty  which  an  over-ruling  Providence  has 
placed  upon  us  ?  8ir,  it  may  be  that  some 
among  us  will  live  to  see  the  day  when,  as  the 
result  of  this  measure,  a  great  and  powerful 
people  may  have  grown  up  in  these  lands — 
when  the  boundless  forests  all  around  us  shall 
have  given  way  to  smiling  fields  and  thriving 
towns —  and  when  one  united  government, 
under  the  British  flag,  shall  extend  from 
shore  to  shore : — but  who  would  desire  to 
see  that  day  if  he  could  not  recall  with  sat- 
isfaction the  part  he  took  in  this  discussion  ? 
Mr.  Speaker  1  have  done.  I  leave  the  sub- 
ject to  the  conscientious  judgment  of  the 
House,  in  the  confident  expectation  and  be- 
lief that  the  decision  it  will  render  will  be 
worthy  of  the  Parliament  of  Canada.  (The 
honorable  gentleman  resumed  his  seat  amid 
loud  and   continued  applause.) 

On  motion  of  the  Hon.  Mr.  McGee,  the 
debate  was  further  adjourned  till  Thursday 
eveninff. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL 


Thursday,  February  9,  1865. 

Ho\.  Mr.  ALLA.N  said,  that  if  he  acqui- 
esced, or  thouglit  that  the  House  acquiesced, 
in  the  opinion  expressed  by  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman who  spoke  at  the  close  of  the  debate 
last  evening,  that  under  the  circumstances  in 
which  the  resolutions  now  before  them  were 
presented  for  their  consideration,  it  was  us3- 
less  to  discuss  their  merits  or  express  any 
opinion  upon  them ;  he  would  not  now  ven- 
ture to  trespass  on  the  time  of  the  House  with 
any  remarks  of  his  on  the  great  scheme  which 
had  been  submitted  for  their  approval.  But 
believing,  as  he  did,  that  the  Government  had 
not  invited  them  to  express  their  opinion  as  a 
mere  matter  of  form,  but  they  were  really 
asked  in  good  faith  to  examine  and  discuss 
the  measure,  and  then  to  express  their  ap- 
proval or  disapproval  of  it  as  a  whole,  he 
would  venture  to  occupy  their  attention  for  a 
few  moments,  while  he  stated  to  the  House 
the  reasons  which  induced  him  to  give  it  his 
hearty  concurrence  and  support.  He  would 
first,  however,  premise  that  he  could  not  see 
the  force  of  an  objection  which  had  also  been 
made,  that  as  they  were  precluded  from  mak- 
ing any  alteration  in  the  details  of  the  scheme, 
they  would  be  betraying  their  trust  and  vio- 
lating their  duty  to  their  constituents  if  they 


116 


acquiesced  in  the  scheme  as  a  whole,  to  some  ! 
of  the  particular  features  of  which  their  own  j 
convictions  might  be  opposed,  and  in  reference  j 
to  which  they  perhaps  had  no  opportunity  of  , 
ascertaining  dcfiiutcly  the  views  of  their  con-  ! 
stituents.  Now,  he  would  ask  honorable  gen-  j 
tlemen,  did  it  not  constantly  happen  that  in  | 
the  busiuL-ss  of  life  they  were  obliged  to  dele- 
gate to  a  few  the  conduct  of  many  matters  in 
which  they  were  most  decpl}^  intei'csted  them- 
selves, but  which,  from  the  very  nature  of  the 
interests  involved,  could  not  be  dealt  with  ad- 
vantageously otherwise,  and  if  they  had  con- 
fidence in  the  judgment  and  ability  of  those  to 
whom  the  task  had  been  committed,  were  they 
not  satisfied  to  accept  their  recommendations, 
although  their  views  on  all  points  miglit  not 
coincide  with  their  own  ?  Just  so  in  the  case 
of  the  Confederation  scheme — it  was  one  which 
required  special  ability,  tact  and  judgment,  to 
deal  with.  It  was  one  in  which  so  many  con- 
flicting interests,  so  many  nice  questions  were 
involved,  that  it  would  have  been  next  to  im- 
possible to  have  arrived  at  any  satisfactory 
settlement  of  the  question,  had  the  task  been 
committed  to  a  popular  assembly  or  any  other 
large  body.  Now,  he  was  satisfied  that  the 
people  of  this  country  were  fully  persuaded  at 
the  time  of  the  Conference  that  the  task  of 
framing  a  scheme  ibr  the  union  of  all  the 
North  American  Provinces  had  been  assumed 
by  those  statesmen  who,  by  their  ability,  ex- 
perience and  jiidgmcnt  were,  of  all  men,  the 
best  qualified  for  the  duty  ;  and  he  had  yet  to 
learn,  from  any  expression  of  public  opinion, 
either  out  of  doors  or  in  the  press,  that  this 
confidence  had  been  shaken,  or  that  the  scheme, 
as  a  whole,  had  been  disapproved  of.  On  the 
contrary,  the  people  of  Cft«ada  had  now  been 
acquainted  with  all  the  important  features  of 
the  measure  for  some  three  n)onths  at  least, 
and  he  believed  the  result  had  been  that, 
while  various  opinions  had  been  expressed  in 
reference  to  the  details  of  the  scheme,  the  great 
majority  of  the  people  were  perfectly  satisfied 
to  leave  the  matter  in  the  hands  of  their  re- 
prc8entativ»>s,  to  be  assented  to  by  them  as  a 
whole,  if,  after  a  lull  discussion  of  its  meiits, 
they  were  satisfied  that  they  so  far  outweighed 
its  defects  as  to  conmiend  itself  to  their 
adoption.  If  then,  in  the  best  exercise  of 
his  judgment,  he  had  come  to  the  conclusion 
taat  the  peculiar  circumstances  of  the  times, 
and  the  merits  of  the  scheme  as  a  whole,  out- 
weighed any  of  the  del'ifcts  wliicli  might  present 
themselves  in  the  details,  he  thought  he  should 
be  fully  warranted,  acting  on  Ix-half  of  liis 
constituents,   in  according  his  support  to  the 


measure,  without  being  in  any  way  chargeable 
with  a  dereliction  of  duty  or  a  betrayal  of  the 
trust  committed  to  him.  He  would  now  state 
to  the  Ilouse  what  were  the  considerations 
which  induced  him  to  give  liis  support  to  the 
measure,  and  which,  to  him  at  least,  appeared 
of  sufficient  importance  to  outweigh  all  objec- 
tions that  had  been  brouglit  against  it.  They 
were  twofoM — arising  in  the  first  place  from 
our  internal  condition,  and  in  the  second  place 
from  our  position  with  regard  to  the  neighbor- 
ing States.  And  first,  with  regard  to  our  in- 
ternal condition,  while  he  partly  agreed  with 
the  remark  which  fell  from  the  honorable 
member  for  the  Brock  Division,  that  our  poli- 
tical differences  alone  could  perhaps  scarcely 
be  said  to  necessitate  such  great  and  important 
constitutional  changes  as  those  involved  in 
Confederation  ;  yet  taken  in  connection  with 
our  external  relations,  he  thought  no  one  would 
deny  tliut  the  state  of  chronic  weikness  of  the 
governing  body  had  become  a  subject  of  grave 
apprehension  to  every  well-wisher  of  their 
country.  No  one  would  deny  that  when  storms 
were  impending,  it  was  doubly  necessary  that 
the  ships  of  the  state  should  be  guided  by  firm 
and  determined  hands — that  weakness  and 
vacillation  under  such  circumstances  would  be 
sure  to  end  in  disaster.  Yet  for  the  last  few 
years,  when  the  political  horizon  hud  been 
growing  darker  and  darker,  when  fresh  causes 
of  irritation  had  unhappily  sprimg  up  from 
time  to  time  between  us  nnd  our  neighbors, 
we  had  seen  ministry  after  ministry  brc^k 
down,  until  anytliing  like  a  stable  and  vigorous 
government  seemed  to  have  become  a  liopeless 
impossibilit}'.  Who  could  say  that  such  ;i 
st  ite  of  things  was  not  fraught  with  danger  to 
any  community.  He  believed  that  in  Federa- 
tion they  had  found  a  remedy  for  those  sec 
tional  differences  between  Upper  and  Lo\v«'r 
Canada,  which  had  so  long  agitated  tlit- 
country,  and  had  been  a  source  of  weakness  t.» 
so  many  administrations.  Under  the  .'^clu'mo 
now  proposed,  all  causes  of  jealousy  and  dis- 
trust between  the  two  provinces  would  be 
removed,  and  they  might  well  hail  with  s:iti> 
faction  any  change  which,  by  removing  those 
stumbling-blocks  which  sectional  fooling  and 
party  strife  had  plac.d  in  the  way  of  so  manv 
successive  ministries,  had  enabled  thc^  ablest 
men  of  all  parties  to  unite  thoir  councils 
for  the  formation  of  a  strong,  vigorous  and 
permanent  government.  For  these  con- 
siderations, amongst  others,  the  measure 
before  the  House  should  have  his  hearty 
support,  but  there  wore  to  his  mind  graver 
reasons  still  why  the  union  cf  the  provinces 


117 


should,  if  possible,  be  brought  about  without 
further  loss  of  time.     No  one  who  had  watched 
the  course  of  public  opiuion  in  Great  Britain 
in  reference  to  the  colonies,  as  expressed  during 
the  last  few  years,  either  in  Parliament  or  in 
the  public  press,  could  doubt  that  the  feeling 
had  been  gaining  ground  there  that  the  time 
had  come  for  us  to  assume  a  larger  share  than 
we  had   hitherto    assumed  of  those  respon- 
sibilities   which     attach    to    every    country 
aspiring  to  any  sort  of  national  existence  or 
political  standing.     He  need  scarcely  say  that 
he  alluded  to  the  question  of  defence.     This 
was  a  question  which  would  have  been  forced 
upon  us  sooner  or  later  under  any  circumstan- 
ces, because  it  was  neither  reasonable  nor  just 
that  we    should    expect    that  Great  Britain 
would  continue  to  give  us  the  protection  of 
her  fleets  and  armies,  unless  we  showed  that 
we  were  willing  to  bear  our  share  of  the  bur- 
den, and  were  ready  to  contribute  our  quota 
of  men  and  means  towards  the  defence  of  oiir 
own  hearths  and  homes  should  war  unhappily 
threaten  us.     Under  any  circumstances,  then, 
the  consideration  of  this  question  must  neces- 
sarily have  occupied  a  large  share  of  the  at- 
tention of  the  Government  and  the  Legislature, 
but  no  one  would  deny  that  it  had  acquired 
tenfold  importance  in  view  of  our  present  re- 
lations with  the  United  States,  and  that  what 
might  safely  have  been  left  to  the  unaided  re- 
sources of  Canada  alone,had  peace  and  harmony 
continued  to  prevail  on  our  borders,  would  now 
require  all  the  assistance,  all  the  material  aid 
and  moral  support,  which  a  close  and  cordial 
union  with  nearly  a  million  of  our  British 
fellow-subjects  could  alone  give  to  us.     Feel- 
ing then  as  he  did  upon  these  points,  he  could 
not  help  asking  himself  the  question,  what 
Vv^ould  be  the  result,  as  regards  the  well-being 
and  prosperity  of  Canada,  if  this   Confedera- 
tion scheme  should  fall  through  ?     Should  we 
not  suffer  most  seriously  in  all  our  relations 
both  at  home   and  abroad  ?     Would  not  the 
effect  on  our  credit  in  England  be  most  dis- 
asterous  ?     Would  they  not  say  that  our  own 
folly  and  want  of  patriotism  had  condemned 
us  to  a  state  of  isolation  and  weakness,  when 
union  with  our  sister  provinces  would  have 
made  us  strong,  powerful    and    prosperous? 
Some  honorable  gentlemen  had   such  strong 
objections  to  some  of  the  details  of  the  meas- 
ure^ — the  alteration  in  the  constitution  of  this 
House,  for  instance — that  rather  than  brin2; 
themselves  to  vote  for  it,  they  were  willing  to 
run  the  risk  of  imperiling  the  whole  scheme. 
For  his  own  part,  he  thought  it  would  ill  be- 
come an  elected  member  like  himself  to  say 


anything  against  the  elective  system  as  applie 
to  this  House  ;  although  he  earnestly  believed 
that  the  majority  of  his  own  constituents  were 
in  favor  of  a  Legislative  Council  appointed 
by  the  Crown.     As  for  the  objection  which 
had  been  urged  that  between  an  Upper  House 
composed  exclusively  of  life  members,  and  an 
elective    Lower    House,  there  might  be  the 
danger  of  a  direct  collision  in  the  event  of 
one  rejecting  an  important  measure  which  the 
other  had  passed,  he  did  not  think  there  was 
much  danger  of  such  a  contingency.     Indeed 
he  would  remind  honorable  members  that  the 
only  instance  of  anything  like  a  dead-lock  be- 
tween   the  two  Houses,  which  had  occurred 
within  late  years,  at  all  events,  was  since  the 
introduction  of  the  elective  principle,  when  the 
Council  in  1859  refused  to  pass  the  Supply 
Bill  on  account  of  certain  items  contained  in 
it,  providing  for  the  expense  of  the  removal 
of  the  Government  to  Quebec.     The  Govern- 
ment on  that  occasion  were  left  in  a  minority 
in   this  House,  although  they  had  a  majority 
in  the  Assembly,  and  it  wag  only  after  an  ad- 
journment of  some  days  and  upon  a  recon- 
sideration of  the  question,  after  bringing  up 
some  life  members  from  Lower  Canada,  that 
the  Government  carried  the  vote  by  a  majority 
of  two  or  three.     Upon  the  whole,  however, 
he   thought    that  the    life    members  of  the 
Council  would   admit  that  the  elective  mem- 
bers  had   so   far,    at   all   events,   comported 
themselves   in    such   a   way    as   to   maintain 
the    character  of   the  House   as  a  conserva- 
tive body,  free  from  all  violent  party  feeling, 
and  exercising  a  wholesome  check  against  all 
ill-considered  or  hasty  legislation.      The  real 
danger,  he  thought,  was  that  if  the  House  in 
process  of  time  were  to  become  a  purely  elec- 
tive body,  and  party  lines  became  more  closely 
drawn,  the   same   partisan  spirit   which   too 
often  swayed  the  proceedings  of  the  popular 
branch  of  the  Legislature,  might  find  its  way 
into    their  chamber,   larger   powers,   such  as 
originating  money  bills,  might  be  claimed,  and 
a  collision  between  the  two  Houses  might  then 
occur  at  any  time.      Another  objection  raised 
by  some  honorable  gentlemen,  was,  that  this 
measure  was  being  urged  upon  the  Parliair.ent 
and  people  of  this  country  with  undue  haste, 
and   from   the   language  of  some   honorable 
gentlemen  it  was  quite  clear  that  they  did  not 
think   that  our  situation  was  by  any  means 
such  a  ci'itical  one  as  to  call  for  any  immediate 
change.     For  his  own  part,  he  did  not  under- 
stand how  any  one  could  look  abroad  at  what 
was  passing  on  our  borders  and  not  take  into 
consideration  the  fact  that  our   communica- 


118 


tlon  with  the  sea-board  during  the  winter  was  ] 
about  to  be  cut  off — that  our  trade  and  com-  j 
merce  with  the  United  States  was  hampered  | 
by  the  most  vexatious  and  needless  restric-  i 
tions — and  that,  furthermore,  measures  of  a 
military   and  naval  character  having  special 
reference  to  our  frontier  relations,  had  found 
favor  and  countenance  with  the  Government 
and  people  of  the  United  States.     Looking  at 
all  these  things,  he  could  not  conceive  how  any 
Canadian  could  feel  that  this  was  a  time  for 
his  country  to  remain  in  her  present  compara- 
tively weak  and  isolated  condition,  when  an 
opportunity    was    offered   of    acquiring  that 
strength  which  union   witli    the   sister   pro- 
vinces could  alone  give  us.     It  might  be  that 
there  were   some  honorable    gentlemen   who 
did  not  view  the  question,  so  far  as  regarded 
our  relations  with  the  United  States,  in  the 
same  light  that  he  did.     Now,  from  whatever 
point  of  view  he  looked  at   the   question   of 
Confederation,   he  was   equally  convinced  of 
the  extreme  desirableness  of  an  early  settle- 
ment of  the  question.      He  would  be  very 
unwilling  to  follow  the  example  of  some  hon- 
orable gentlemen  in  decrying  the  resources  or 
underrating  the  position  of  Canada;  but  he 
was  bound  to  say,  that  while  he  freely  admit- 
ted   and    heartily    acknowledged    the   many 
sources  of  material    wealth    and   prosperity 
which  Canada  possessed,  in  her  fertile   soil, 
her  rich  minerals,  her  noble  system  of  canals 
and  railways,  he  nevertheless  could  not  shut 
hia   eyes    to   the  fact   that    our    trade   and 
revenue,  our  connuoi'cial   and  agiiciiltural  in- 
terests, had  been  so  injuriously   affected   by 
the  state  of  things  on  the  other  side   of  the 
lakes,  that  unless  we  could  find  new  avenues 
for  our  commerce,  new  markets  for  our  pro- 
duce, we  must  inevitably  suffer  a  most  serious 
check  to  our  prosperity  and  well-doing.     In 
this  Confederation  scheme  he  believed  that  a 
golden  opportunity  was  offered  to  us  of  remedy- 
ing the  evils  under  which  we  were  now  suf- 
fering, and  of  opening  out  a  new  and  pros- 
perous career  for  this   country,  if  we  would 
avail  ourselves  of  it.      He  believed  that   it 
miglit  be  said  of  nations  as  of  individuals': — 

Tliere  i.s  a  tide  in  Ihe  adairs  of  man 

Wliicli,  taken  at  llie  flood,  leiuls  on  to  fortune; 

Omitted,  all  the  voyage  of  their  life  is  spent 

In  bliallowH  and  miseries. 

Hn  such  a  full  sea  are  wu  now  afloat. 

And  we  must  take  the  current  aa  it  flows, 

Or  lose  our  venture. 

He  would  urge  then  upon  the  Hou.so,  not 
to  allow  the  opportunity  to  pass — even  should 
it  be  at  the  sacrifice  of  individual  opinions — 


of  forming  a  strong,  powerful  and  prosperous 
Confederation,  and  thus  ensure  for  ourselves, 
and  our  children's   children,   a  national  ex- 
istence as  British  North   Americans,   which 
may  endure  for  many  ages  to  come.  (Cheers.) 
Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  said  he  rose  for  the 
purpose  of  moving  the  resolution  of  which  he 
had  given  notice,  and  would  take  the  oppor- 
tunity of  offering  some  observations  on  the 
general  subject.     In  his  opinion  it  could  not 
be  injured  by  discussion,  and  whatever  might 
be  its  merits  or  demerits  after  going  through 
the  crucible,  the  residuum  must  be  better  than 
the  present  condition  of  the  subject,  both  as 
regarded  the  legislature  and  the  country.     On 
a  former  occasion  he  had  expressed  himself  as 
not  averse  to  the  question,  but  as  inclined, 
from  various  considerations,  to  view  Confeder- 
ation favorably  ;  and  acting  in  the  same  sense 
he  would  now  state  certain  points,  which,  in 
his  opinion,  must  lead  to  the  conclusion  that 
such  a  union  would  advance  the  prosperity  of 
the  colonies  interested,  and  their  vdtimate  es- 
tablishment as  a  nation.     The  principle  of  as- 
sociation, as  exhibited  in  commercial  partner- 
ships and  corporations,  continued  a  secret  of 
prosperity,  the  precise  nature  of  which  it  might 
be  difi&cult  to  elucidate  and  account  for,  but 
which  no  one  could  fail  to  recognize,  and  so 
far  as  it  applied  to  nations  its  potency  was 
sufficiently  established  to  show  that  the  anal- 
ogy was  presumed  and  that  it  was  as  operative 
as  in  partnerships  and  corporations.     He  was 
also  prepared  to  admit  that  diversity  of  inter- 
ests was  no  sufficient  argument  against  union, 
— (hear) — since  in  this  very  particular  might 
frequently  be  found   the   strongest  bond   of 
union.      As  in  electricity,  opposite  poles  at- 
tracted each  other,  so  among  nations  a  diver- 
sity of  interests  which  might  a  priori  be  pro- 
nounced a  bar,  was  not  unfrequcntly  the  most 
effectual  means  of  harmony,  and  thus  a  diver- 
sity of  feeling  which  brought  out  talent,  might 
lead  to  a  comparison  of  opinions  which  would 
induce  an  enlarged  policy  calculated  to  elevate 
and  not  to  depress  national  energies,     lie  wa.s 
prepared  to  admit  that  Confederation  would 
enlarge  the  minds  of  all,  and  make  us  better 
to   understand    our    resources    and    capabil- 
ities.    It   M'ould    make   us   more   cnijuiring, 
and  teacli  us  so  to  use  our  industrial  jKiwer 
as  to  secure  the  best  results.     (Hear,  hear.) 
He  was  prepared  to  admit  that  the  results  of 
the  union  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
liad  been  beneficial  to  both,   and  ho   argued 
that  union  with  the  other  provinces,  inhabited 
by  a  people  educated  under  difl'erent  circum- 
Htauces  and  of  different  origins,  could  hardly 


119 


be  without  mutual  advantage.     It  would  give 
the  inhabitants  of  each  province  the  oppor- 
tunity of  studying  each  other's  habits   and 
pursuits,  and  so  induce  larger  and  more  com- 
prehensive views.     He  was  prepared  to  admit 
that  the  assimilation  of  tariffs  would  be  an 
advantage  of  no  little  moment,  and  that  it 
would  do  away  with  much  chafing  in  working 
the  machinery  of  the  government.     He  also 
admitted  the  advantage  of  having  ocean  sea- 
ports of  our  own,  though  he  was  not  prepared 
to  attach  so  much  importance  to  that  as  some 
other  honorable  members.     We  were  told  that 
no  inland  country  could  ever  be  great,  and 
that  so  long  as  we  had  no  opening  to  the  sea 
we  could  not  expect   permanent   prosperity. 
He  was  quite  prepared  to  say  that  access  to 
the  ocean  through  the  ports  of  St.  John,  N.B., 
and  Halifax,  was  very  desirable,  but  he  was 
not  at  all  certain  that  the  grand  effects  pro- 
claimed would  be  realized.     It  was  no  doubt 
very  desirable  to  secure  all  these  advantages, 
but  the   measure  contained    some  provisions 
which,  if  carried  out,  would,  as  he  believed, 
be  highly  injurious  to  both  the  general  and 
local  governments.  Then  he  must  say  he  had  a 
strong  distrust  of  it  on  account  of  the  manner 
in  which   it  was   originated.     It  was  not  in 
accordance  with  the  analogy  of  things  or  with 
the  lessons  taught  us  by  the  history  of  the 
world,  that  a  few  gentlemen,  however  wise  and 
well-intentioned,  but  self-elected,  should  meet 
together  to  form  a  constitution  and  erect  a  new 
nationality.     If  we  looked  to  the  United  States 
(the  history  of  whose  Constitution  he  would 
presently   allude  to,  and   whose  Constitution 
had  been  more  closely  followed  in  that  now 
imder  consideration  than  the  British  Constitu- 
tion) we  would  see  how  patiently   they  had 
proceeded  to  construct  it.     [Here  the  honor- 
able member  gave  a  history  of  the  first  instru- 
ment of  federation,  established  for  mutual  con- 
venience and  support,  though  not  for  national 
union,  which  occupied  from  the  7th  October 
to  the  15th  November,  1777,  in  the  discussing. 
He  then  said  that  this  arrangement,  not  being- 
found  to  answer  the  requirements  of  the  States 
concerned,  in  September,  1787,  they  conunenc- 
ed  deliberating  upon  the  adoption  of  a  Consti- 
tution, which,  after  being  arranged,  was  for  two 
years  before  the  individual  states  and  the  peo- 
ple, being  only  ratified  in  October,  1789.]   This 
showed  how  careful  and  particular  they  had 
been  in  this  important  matter,  and  a  distin- 
guished member  of  the  other  branch  of  our  le- 
gislature had  said,  only  a  few  evenings  ago,  that 
the  greatest  statesmen  who  ever  lived  had  been 
engaged  in  the  work.    From  the  length  of  the 


discussions,  and  the  time  given  to  the 
people  to  study  and  understand  the  meas- 
ure, it  was  seen  how  anxious  they  were  that 
it  should  be  made  perfectly  satisfactory  to 
them.  But  what  was  it  that  gave  rise  to 
the  desire  for  federation  first  in  the  States  ? 
They  were  poor  and  comparatively  helpless. 
They  had  just  come  out  of  an  exhaustive  war 
with  Great  Britain,  and  the  duty  fell  upon 
them  of  organizing  a  government  for  a  broad 
expanse  of  country,  containing  but  two  and 
a  half  or  three  million  souls.  This  it  was 
that  led  to  the  first  attempt  at  federation,  and 
afterwards  to  a  closer  union  under  the  con- 
stitution of  1789.  How  was  it  with  us  ?  It 
was  alleged  that  we  had  been  led  step  by  step, 
according  to  the  strictest  method  of  induction, 
to  the  necessity  for  the  measure  now  proposed ; 
that  without  it  there  must  have  been  an  irre- 
mediable dead-lock  between  the  parties  in  the 
legislature,  which  would  have  rendered  further 
progress  impossible.  But  what  was  the  real 
impediment  ?  Want  of  patriotism — not  the 
want  of  a  good  Constitution.  If  there  had 
been  less  virulence  of  party  spirit,  and  a  better 
disposition  to  accommodate  matters,  there 
would  have  been  no  dead-luck.    i^Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.    ROSS    hoped    the   honorable 
member  felt  this. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— If  the  leading  men 
had  felt  as  they  ought  to  have  felt,  there  would 
have  been  no  dead-lock,  for  it  existed  more  in 
name  than  in  reality.  There  was  no  cause  for 
saying  that  no  government  could  be  formed 
which  could  command  a  good  majority.  And 
what  had  the  difficulties  arisen  from  ?  From  a 
persistent  agitation  for  representation  accord- 
ing to  population,  in  consequence  of  which  the 
people  had  at  last  come  to  believe  that  it  was 
a  fundamental  axiom  in  government.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But  did  it  follow  that  because  there 
were  difficulties  that  they  could  not  be  arranged 
without  recourse  to  such  a  measure  as  this,  and 
was  it  certain  even  that  Confederation  would 
remove  them  ?  Instead  of  meeting  the  diffi- 
culties, the  Government  had  travelled  away 
from  them  and  formed  an  agreement  with 
provinces  in  which  they  had  no  existence, 
without  devisiog  means  to  relieve  themselves. 
Federation  was  forthwith  produced,  like  Mi- 
nerva from  the  head  of  Jupiter,  fully  armed  ; 
and  we  were  told  it  was  just  what  we  wanted 
to  make  all  things  right.  We  were  told  we 
must  take  it  as  presented,  without  any  possible 
change ;  we  must  lay  aside  our  character  as  a 
deliberative  body,  and  without  considering  the 
country  (which  had  been  studiously  kept  in 
ignorance  of  the  scheme)  vote  to  accept  or 


120 


reject  it.  It  was  true  that  soon  after  the  reso- 
lutions had  been  agreed  upon,  copies  had  been 
sent  to  the  members  of  both  Houses  confiden- 
tially, but  the  people  must  be  kept  in  the  dark. 
If  the  members  had  acted  up  to  the  implied 
requirement  of  secrecy,  and  not  divulged  the 
provisions  of  the  scheme,  the  people  were  to  this 
day  ignorant  of  its  character,  and  it  could  not 
be  said  that  it  was  ever  constitutionally  sub- 
mitted to  the  country.  Then  we  were  told  that, 
as  elective  members  and  as  patriots,  it  was  our 
duty  to  jyjcept  the  measure  as  it  was,  even 
though  portions  of  it  might  not  be  satisfactory, 
rather  than  lose  it  altogether.  It  had  been 
generally  represented  by  the  local  newspapers 
in  Upper  Canada — fed  to  do  so — that  it  was 
commonly  approved  ;  but  while  the  simple  idea 
of  union  might  find  favor,  as  he  believed  it 
did,  it  was  not  less  true  that  the  country  was 
waiting  for  the  details,  of  which  they  would 
judge  when  they  had  been  discussed  in  Par- 
liament. When  this  had  been  done,  and  the 
bearing  of  the  manifold  particulars  was  thor- 
oughly understood  it  was  expected,  at  least 
among  the  English  of  Lower  Canada,  that  it 
would  not  be  passed  until  after  having  been 
submitted  to  the  people.  If  it  were  passed 
through  without  such  an  appeal,  he  had  no 
hesitation  in  saying  that  the  Government  would 
assume  a  very  serious  responsibility,  and  if,  in 
after  times,  the  union  should  prove  disastrous, 
it  would  bring  upon  them  imprecations  instead 
of  blessings.  And  he  was  under  the  impres- 
sion that  the  Government,  whenever  they  had 
given  their  views  on  the  subject,  had  never 
said  it  would  not  be  so  presented,  but  no  doubt 
their  utterances  were  very  much  like  those  of 
the  Delphic  oracle,  susceptible  of  being  un- 
derstood in  two  opposite  ways.  But  what 
could  such  an  indisposition  to  speak  clearly 
indicate,  if  not  a  purpose  to  press  the  matter 
on  to  a  result,  even  though  the  people  might 
not  want  it.  Under  this  measure  the  elective 
members  would  have  a  right  to  vote  them- 
selves, two  out  of  three  at  least,  as  members 
for  life.  Now  it  had  been  found  necessary  to 
enact  a  law  to  ensure  the  independence  of 
Parliament,  and  for  the  purpose  of  removing 
all  temptation  to  swerve  from  the  right,  they 
were  precluded  from  occupying  even  the  small 
offices  of  postmasters  in  the  remotest  parts  of 
the  country,  or  acting  as  security  for  such 
oificers.  For  every  day  that  a  member  occu- 
pied a  seat  in  cither  House  unlawfully,  he  was 
subject  to  the  extreme  penalty  of  £500,  and  if 
this  strictness  had  been  found  necessary,  was 
not  the  spirit  of  the  law  violated  when  this 
House  was  invited  to  pass  a  measure  by  which 


the  members  of  the  Legislative  Council  of  the 
Confederation  would  be  appointed  for  life,  and 
selected  from  the  members  of  the  present 
Legislative  Council — even  allowing  that  all 
the  Crown  nominated  members  were  to  be  first 
chosen,  as  the  Honorable  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands  had  left  us  to  infer  from  his 
remarks. 

Hon.  xVr.  CAMPBELL  said  he  had  stated 
nothing  of  the  kind,  and  the  honorable  mem- 
ber had  no  foundation  whatever  for  his  asser- 
tion. He  (Hon.  Mr.  Campbell)  had  used  no 
such  language,  but  had  expressly  stated  that 
due  consideration  would  be  given  to  members 
of  both  sides  of  politics,  and  to  life  and  elec- 
tive members  equall}-. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  said  he  had  reason 
to  suppose  that  what  he  had  stated  was  a  fair 
inference  from  what  the  Honorable  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands  said. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  honorable 
member  could  not  have  been  in  the  House 
when  the  statement  was  made,  or  how  could 
he  draw  that  conclusion  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  SiSJNBOBN  said  he  was  ready 
to  accept  the  explanation,  as  it  would  not  affect 
his  argument.  And  supposing  all  the  mem- 
bers nominated  by  the  Crown  were  appointed, 
he  would  say  it  was  but  just ;  nay,  it  would 
be  unjust  to  deprive  them  of  seats  which  had 
been  given  them  for  life.  The  Honorable  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  would  thus  see  that 
he  (Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn)  had  attributed  ouly 
such  opinions  to  him  as  he  himself  conscien- 
tiously held  to  be  right.  Assuming  then  that 
the  Crown  members  would  retain  their  scats, 
there  was  a  direct  temptation  presented  to  at 
least  two  out  of  three  of  the  elective  mem- 
bers. This,  he  thought,  exhibited  the  project 
in  a  very  damaging  light.  Such  a  measure 
was  calculated  to  bias  the  judgment,  and  ought 
not  to  be  presented  to  any  legislative  body. 
He  held  that  elective  members  had  received  a 
sacred  trust  to  exercise  ;  that  they  were  sent 
here  by  their  constituencies  to  represent  them, 
and  to  do  that  only.  Under  tliese  circum- 
stances he  would  ask,  whether  they  could  con- 
ceive they  had  the  power  to  vote  away  the 
rights  of  their  electors  ?  That  was  not  in  their 
iwmdat,  and  if  t]u>v  did,  thoy  would  be 
doing  what  they  had  no  authority  to  do  ; 
they  would  be  doing  what  they  could  not  do 
without  going  beyond  the  autliority  confided 
to  them.  Coming  to  the  principle  of  elective 
legislative  councils  itself,  he  might  say  it 
had  already  been  adopted  in  four  British 
colonics  besides  Canada,  (\uiada,  though  the 
largest  of  these,  was  not  the  first  to  adopt  it 


121 


though  it  might  claim  to  be  foremost  in  es- 
tablishing precedents — especially  as  with  the 
addition  of  the  Lower  Provinces  we  are  told 
we  shall  be  the  third  largest  nation  in   the 
world — (hear,  hear,  and  laughter) — since  for 
a  long  series  of  years  the  demand  had  been 
made  by  the  people.     They  persisted  against 
many  discouragements,  and  the  reform  con- 
stituted one  of  the  famous  ninety-two  resolu- 
tions of  the    constitutional  party  in  Lower 
Canada,  until  with  other  reforms  it  was  at  last 
conceded  and  consummated.     When  the  sub- 
ject was   under   discussion,  objections    were 
made   and  fears  expressed  that   there  might 
be  a  feeling  among  the  members,  who  came 
from    the   people,  to  claim  the  right  to  ori- 
ginate money  bills,  and  that  an  antagonism 
would  thus  arise  between  the  two  branches, 
but  no  such  conflict  of  opinion  had  ever  hap- 
pened, and  the  Constitution  had  worked  as 
heretofore.     The    infusion   of    the    elective 
element  was  made  gradually  with  the  view  of 
anticipating  such  a  result,  and  the  effect  was 
attained,   for  there    had  been  no  clashing  of 
interests.      The  elective   principle  had  been 
applied  to  the  Legislative  Council  of  Prince 
Edward  Island,    and   he    would    ask,   how, 
under  the  14th  resolution  of  the  Confeder- 
ation, that  body  was  to  be  dealt  with  ?     He 
would  read  that  part  of  the  resolution  to  which 
he    referred  — "  The   first  selection    of  the 
members  of  the   Legislative    Council   to   be 
made  from  the  Legislative   Councils  of  the 
various  provinces,   except  as  regards  Prince 
Edward  Island,"  &c.     What  did  this  mean  ? 
Were  the    members  from   Prince    Edward 
Island  still  to  be  elected  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— No;  they  were 
to  be  appointed.  The  resolution  was  so  worded 
as  not  to  limit  the  selection  in  Prince  Edward 
Island  to  the  Legislative  Council  now  in  ex- 
istence there. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— Was  it  because 
the  elective  principle  had  worked  so  badly  in 
Canada  that  this  change  is  proposed  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— No  ;  and  there- 
fore in  Canada  the  selection  was  to  be  made 
from  the  House  itself. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— It  appeared  then, 
that  Prince  Edward  Island,  dissatisfied  with 
the  elective  principle,  had  dictated  terms,  and 
Canada  had  yielded  to  the  dictation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  — The  Confer- 
ence had  yielded  to  Prince  Edward  Island 
only  in  respect  of  its  own  members.  They 
were  so  dissatisfied  with  their  Legislative 
Council  that,  with  reference  to  themselves, 
a  choice  from  the  people  at  large  was  permit- 
17 


ted,  but  this  had  no  reference  whatever  to 
Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  —  Suppose  the 
elective  members  should  be  swept  off,  what 
became  of  the  people's  right  of  representation 
by  men  of  their  own  choice? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— No  such  thii^ 
was  intended. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  said  he  had  only 
put  the  case  hypothetically,  but    had   been 
glad  to  learn  the  reasons  which  had  led  the 
delegates  to  resolve  upon  the  abandonment  of 
the  elective  principle  in  respect  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council.     Canada,  however,  did  not  de- 
serve to  be  used  in  this  way.     He  would  now 
ask  whether  the  representatives  of  Canada  in 
the   Conference  had   any  warrant  from  the 
country  to  justify  their  action  ?     They  had 
none  whatever.     If  they  had  not  acted  under 
the  dictation  of  Prince  Edward  Island,  they 
had  acted  on  their  own  motion,  and  without 
authority  of  any  kind.     The  conclusion  was 
legitimate   and   logical.      The  position   they 
had  assumed  was  exceptional  and  distasteful. 
Coming  to  the  proposal  to  amend  the  resolu- 
tions, he  would,  say  there  existed  no  reason 
why  the  House,  if  it  thought  proper,  could 
not  change  them  in  any  particular.     He  wil- 
lingly admitted  that  they  were  in  the  nature 
of  a  treaty,  and  we  must  accept  them,  if  ac- 
cepted at  all,  so  that  their  essential  character 
should  not  be  impaired ;  but  when  they  were 
presented  to  us,  we  were  bound    to  decide 
whether  they  were  what  we  wanted  or  not. 
If  they  were  so  in  the  main,  there  was  no 
necessity  for  taking  exceptions  which  would 
aflFect  our  relations  with  the  other  provinces, 
but  they  might  be  modified  and  changed  in 
so  far  as  Canada  was  concerned,  and  the  other 
provinces  would  have  no  cause  of  complaint. 
What  interest  had  they  in  the  manner  of  our 
choosing   our  own  representatives  ?     All  they 
had  a  right  to  say  in  the  matter  was  that  we 
should  not  have  more  than  two-thirds  of  the 
whole  number.     There  was  a  way  of  putting 
things  so  as  to  frighten  and  convince  waver- 
ing minds ;  but  he  would  ask  the  House  to 
sift  this  matter  to  the  bottom — to  look  at  the 
reason   of  things — and  to  say  if  his  amend- 
ment were  adopted,  which  maintained  intact 
the  principle  of  representation  laid  down  in 
the  resolutions — only  retaining  the  mode  of 
choosing  the  members — the  modification  could 
lead  to  harm  or  to  anything  else  than  what 
had  already  been  declared,  viz.,  that  the  Im- 
perial Parliament  might  take  the  scheme  with 
the  amendment  under  consideration,  and  act 
.  upon  said  amendment.     Mr.  Cardwell  had 


122 


already  remarked  upon"  that  veiy  point,  and 
if  it  were  changed,  would  it  not  be  to  retain 
the  elective  principle  ?  If  the  Imperial  Par- 
liament may  do  so,  may  we  not  ask  them  to 
do  it  ?  May  we  not  record  our  views?  And 
would  they,  upon  a  measure  of  such  vast 
moment  and  pregnant  with  such  results,  pro- 
ceed to  adopt  a  principle  unless  they  knew  its 
operation  to  be  beneficial?  Turning  to  his 
proposed  amendment,  the  honorable  member 
said  that  if  it  were  adopted,  the  principle  of 
federal  representation  in  the  resolutions  would 
be  retained;  the  same  members  would  be 
retained  (in  Canada  at  least) ;  and  to  render 
the  proportion  of  the  Lower  Provinces  rela- 
tively equal,  he  would  allow  them  to  name  ten 
life  members.  Were  we  to  be  told  that  such 
a  form  would  be  incongruous,  and  be  deterred 
from  considering  the  proposition  ?  Then  we 
should  be  reflecting  upon  ourselves.  He  and 
other  honorable  members  sat  under  a  mandate 
from  the  people,  while  other  honorable  mem- 
bers sat  under  a  patent  from  the  Crown.  It 
would  be  a  reflection  both  on  our  past  aud 
present  condition.  There  were  the  same 
reasons  now  for  adopting  such  a  form  as  there 
were  when  the  elective  principle  was  adopted. 
It  was  a  domestic  matter,  and  should  be  left 
to  domestic  arrangement.  Each  province  had 
its  own  peculiar  interests,  and  should  be  left 
to  the  exercise  of  its  judgment  in  the  manage- 
ment of  them.  If  subsequently  a  change  were 
desired,  it  could  be  granted.  He  maintained 
that  his  views  were  correct  and  logical,  and 
he  was  at  a  loss  to  see  the  incongruity  with 
which  they  were  charged.  He  could  not  dis- 
cover any  sufficient  cause  for  the  proposed 
change,  and  as  the  people  had  not  asked 
for  it,  and  as  Canada  formed  a  large  ma- 
jority of  the  whole,  it  ought  not  to  have  been 
granted  without  reference  to  their  opinions. 
Representation  according  to  population  was 
now  looked  upon  as  a  cardinal  principle,  but 
it  cei'tainly  was  not  observed  in  dealing  with 
this  important  question.  We  were  told  the 
vote  was  taken  by  provinces,  not  by  numbers, 
still  the  Lower  Provinces  had  the  majority  of 
representatives,  though  they  represented  but  a 
minority  of  the  people.  Then  it  was  said  our 
delegates  were  loading  men  and  men  of  talent, 
which  he  was  quite  prepared  to  allow,  yet 
they  did  not  compose  all  the  talent  or  states- 
manship of  Canada.  In  this  way  the  ono- 
third  of  the  populations  interested  had  given 
the  law  to  the  other  two-thirds.  We  were 
told  again  that  the  Constitution  emanatiug 
from  the  Conference  was  desirable  because  it 
waa    moduUed  on  the  British   Conwtitutioa. 


The  British  Conititution  was  unmatched  in 
the  world,  and  was  not  susceptible  of  imita- 
tion. It  had  grown  by  the  accretions  of  ages, 
by  the  independence  of  the  people,  and  by 
their  undying  love  of  justice  and  fair  play. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  had  been  produced  by  the 
strictest  inductive  method,  and  stood  unri- 
valled as  a  monument  of  the  greatest  human 
wisdom.  Except  in  remote  future  times,  it 
could  not  be  imitated — (hear) — and  he  did 
not  urge  this  difference  as  a  demerit,  for  it 
was  in  the  nature  of  things  that  it  should 
exist.  It  had  reference  to  different  kinds  of 
people — to  people  of  different  genius,  and  to 
people  of  new  countries  and  altered  circum- 
stances ;  but  though  an  able  theoretical  com- 
position, it  might  fail  to  produce  the  antici- 
pated results.  It  was  not  a  copy  of  that  hor- 
ror of  our  Conatitution-makers — the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States — but  he  would 
show  that  the  delegates  had  borrowed  more 
largely  from  that  Constitution  than  from  any 
other,  though  to  be  sure,  in  some  aspects,  it 
differed  very  much  from  it,  as  in  the  pro^'ision 
which  gives  to  members  of  the  Upper  House 
their  seats  for  life.  The  resolutions  provided 
that  an  equal  representation  should  be  given 
to  the  three  sections  of  the  Confederation  as 
having  separate  interests,  while  in  the  Lower 
House  the  representation  was  to  be  according 
to  population.  Both  these  provisions  were 
copied  from  the  American  Constitution.  The 
life  membership  was  supposed  to  be  in  con- 
formity with  the  British  Constitution,  but 
the  limitation  of  the  number  of  members  was 
a  violation  of  it.  The  limitation  of  the  pow- 
er of  the  federal,  and  the  power  of  the  local 
governments,  was  the  old  story  of  federal  and 
state  rights — in  fact,  the  bone  of  contention 
which  had  led  to  the  present  unhappy  war ; 
an  apple  of  discord  which  our  posterity  might 
gather  in  fruits  of  the  most  bitter  character. 
There  was  another  branch  of  the  subject  he 
would  fail  in  his  duty  if  he  did  not  touch 
upon,  and  that  was  the  situation  in  which  the 
English  of  Lower  Canada  would  be  placed. 
The  Honorable  Premier  had  remarked  at 
some  length  upon  the  disposition  to  toloration 
and  the  indulgent  spirit  evinced  by  his  people 
in  pa8t  times,  and  he  (Hon. Mr.  Sanboun)  w:is 
not  prepared  to  detract  from  this.  Ho  would 
freely  and  fully  concede  the  point,  lie  had 
alw.'iys  lived  in  the  midst  of  a  mixed  popu- 
lation, and  his  division  wiis  more  French  than 
English,  and  it  would  ill  become  him  to  cast 
refloctioni  on  their  liberality  and  desire  for 
fair  play  or  justioa  to  others.  But  this  wa» 
the  time,  when  fcreatlng  of  important  arrange- 


123 


ments  for  the  future,  to  lay  aside  all  unneces- 
sary delicacy,  and  by  our  action  to  lay  down 
the  guarantees  for  the  perpetuation  of  these 
kind  feelings  and  this  spirit  of  toleration  so 
long  existing,  and  which  he  devoutly  hoped 
would  never  cease.  No  greater  calamity  cotdd 
befall  the  English,  or,  in  fact,  both  races,  than 
the  introduction  of  religious  discord  among 
the  people  of  Lower  Canada,  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  would,  however,  be  a  grievous  mistake  to 
overlook  the  safeguards  and  rules  necessary 
to  perpetuate  kindly  feelings,  and  to  prevent 
the  disposition  to  aggressions  which  existed 
more  or  less  in  all  minds.  That  principle — 
the  love  of  power — was  found  in  every  human 
heart,  none  were  exempt  from  it,  and  the 
history  of  the  world  showed  that  no  people 
had  ever  risen  superior  to  it.  The  Honorable 
Premier  had  recognized  this  truth  in  the  re- 
marks he  had  made  in  regard  of  the  difficul- 
ties between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  The 
French  Canadians  had  persistently  refused 
the  demands  of  Upper  Canada  for  represen- 
tation by  population,  because  of  the  terror  they 
felt  that,  if  granted,  their  institutions  would  be 
in  danger ;  and  he  had  told  the  French  mem- 
bers in  the  House  that  under  the  new  Consti- 
tution their  rights  were  so  effectually  guarded 
that  their  autonomy  was  fully  secured — the 
safeguards  thereof  being  put  in  their  own 
hands.  But,  at  the  same  time,  the  English, 
who  were  a  fourth  of  the  population,  and  who, 
by  habit  and  tradition,  had  their  own  views  of 
public  policy,  were  left  entirely  without  guar- 
antee other  than  the  good  feelings  and  tolerant 
spirit  of  the  French.  Was  this  safe  ?  The 
only  safeguard  they  were  to  have  was  in  regard 
of  education,  but  in  regard  of  the  rights 
of  property  they  were  to  be  left  to  the 
Legislature,  And  this  brought  him  to  the 
consideration  of  that  part  of  the  proposed  Con- 
stitution which  had  reference  to  civil  rights 
and  rights  of  property.  It  was  said  that  the 
civil  laws  of  Lower  Canada  were  now  consoli- 
dated into  a  code,  and  this  would  enhance  our 
credit ;  and  if  based  upon  sound  principles  and 
rendered  permanent,  it  would  undoubtedly  do 
so,  for  what  is  so  conducive  to  the  prosperity 
of  a  country  as  well-protected  rights  of  pro- 
perty and  vested  interests  ?  This  feature  was 
deeply  engrained  in  the  British  mind,  and  in 
that  of  the  United  States  also,  insomuch  that 
the  American  Constitution  provides  that  no  law 
could  be  passed  which  would  affect  the  rights  of 
property.  This  was  exemplified  in  the  cele- 
brated Dartmouth  College  case,  in  which  Web- 
ster f50  distinguished  himself,  when  the  endow- 
ment was  maintained  and  perpetuated.      But 


to  what  power  were  the  rights  of  property  com- 
mitted in  these  resolutions  ?  When  the  Min- 
ister of  Finance  appealed  to  moneyed  men 
abroad  for  a  loan,  could  he  say  the  Constitu- 
tion had  provided  guarantees  against  injurious 
changes,  when  it  was  known  that  the  laws  re- 
lating to  property  were  left  to  the  caprice  of 
the  local  governments  ?  Where  was  the 
security  of  the  great  religious  societies  of 
Montreal,  if  a  sentiment  hostile  to  monopolies 
were  carried  to  extremes  in  the  Local  Parlia- 
ment ? 

Hon.  Sir.  E.  P.  TACH]^— The  Oeneral 
Legislature   had  power  to  disallow  such  acts. 

Hon.  Mr,  CURRIE— This  would  be  an 
interference  with  local  rights. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — It  would  preserve  local 
rights. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— It  was  a  wise 
power  and  commended  itself  to  all ;  it  was, 
however,  not  an  ordinary  power  to  be  com- 
monly resorted  to,  but  an  extreme  power,  and 
one  almost  revolutionary.  It  was  a  power 
somewhat  similar  to  that  which  existed  in  the 
second  branch  of  the  Legislature  to  stop  the 
supplies,  but  in  its  very  nature  not  one  often 
to  be  exercised ;  and  it  could  not  be  frequently 
exercised  without  destroying  the  very  founda- 
tions of  society,  and  occasioning  evils  of  the 
greatest  magnitude.  On  the  whole  he  con- 
ceived that  entrusting  such  power  to  the  local 
governments  was  illogical  and  dangerous,  and 
informing  the  world  that  the  rights  of  property 
were  not  made  sure.  It  was  urged  by  some 
that,  to  make  the  measure  now  before  the 
House  answer  the  ends  proposed,  it  must  be 
immediately  adopted,  but  he  did  not  partici- 
pate in  this  opinion.  He  knew  no  reason  for 
this  haste,  and  could  not  believe  that  a  few 
months  would  make  any  material  difference. 
This  union,  when  formed,  was  to  strengthen 
us  so  marvellously  that  we  would  be  able  to 
intimidate  all  the  rest  of  the  world,  and  guar- 
antee us  a  lasting  peace  with  all  mankind.  It 
might  increase  facilities  for  communication, 
but  could  not  increase  our  real  strength.  How 
the  people  of  New  Brunswick  cculd  be  expect- 
ed to  come  up  to  Canada  to  defend  us,  and 
leave  their  own  frontier  unprotected,  he  could 
not  comprehend.  If  he  had  misinterpreted 
the  statements  or  explanations  on  this  point, 
let  the  ministers  show  how  this  greater  strength 
was  to  be  acquired.  There  would  be  three  or 
four  provinces  more  united  together,  but  the 
frontier  to  be  defended  would  be  increased  in 
greater  proportion  than  the  additional  number 
of  men  acquired.  It  was  said  by  the  advo- 
categ  of  the  scheme  that  the  naval  power  of 


124 


Great  Britain   would  defend   St.  John,   for 
instance,  and  leave  scope  for  the  volunteers  to 
defend   the  frontiers;   but   the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  running  as  it  would  along  the  fron- 
tier, would  be  constantly  subject  to  assaults, 
and  would  require  all  the  force  which  could  be 
spared  for  that  purpose.     Lower  Canada  would 
continue   to   be    assailable   from   Maine   and 
"Vermont,  and  Upper  Canada  from  the  state 
of  New  York.     Under   these  circumstances, 
each  section  of  the  Confederation  would  have 
enough  to  do  to  attend  to  its  own  affairs.     We 
were  told  to  love  our  neighbors  as  ourselves, 
but  he  was  not  aware  that  we  were  enjoined 
to  love  them  better.     (Hear.)     We  were  not 
told  what  appropriations  were  to  be  made  for 
defence,  indeed  pains  had  been  taken  to  con- 
ceal that,  and  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  said  that  the 
matter  was  not  debated  or  determined.     The 
province  had  already  incurred  an  expense  of 
$400,000  for  the  simple  purpose  of  sending  a 
few  companies  of  volunteers  to  our  frontier, 
and  if  there  were  no  guarantee  in  the  scheme 
of  union — and  he  did  not  see  any — for  in- 
creasing our  strength,  where  was  the  use  of 
haste  ?     Were  we  not  as  safe  now  as  we  would 
be  then  ?     The  Honorable  Premier  had  stated 
we  were  on  an  inclined  plane,  and  he  (Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn)  supposed  that  like  Holland  we 
must  dyke  ourselves  up,  lest  we  slide  away 
into  the  sea  of  the  great  American  Confeder- 
acy.   (Laughter. )    Whether  we  were  liable  to 
be  hurled  thither  by  an  avalanche  or  gradual- 
ly glide  down,  we  could  not  prevent  our  going 
there  except  by  Confederation,  but  Confedera- 
tion would  stop  us,  and  that  was  something 
to  be  thankful  for.     His  own  impression  was 
that  our  position  would  have  been  more  im- 
proved by  an  agreement  with  Upper  Canada 
than  by  the  new  nationality.     Canada  had  had 
difficulties  with  the  United  States,  but  they 
had   never   exhibited    a  spirit   of  aggression 
towards  us,  except  in  times  of  war,  which  had 
arisen  from  issues  between  Great  Britain  and 
the  United  States,  and  he  did  not  believe  they 
entertained  such  purposes  now  any  more  than 
in   former  times.     If  we  desired   to  have   a 
Constitution  which  would  afford  good  hope  of 
permanency,  it  must  be  planted  deep  in  tlie 
affections   of  the   people — (hear,    hoar) — for 
until    their   intellects  were   convinced   of  its 
excellence,  they  would   not  be   prepared   to 
uphold  it   and  resist  innovations.     But  they 
must   feel    and    comprehend    the   obligation. 
(Hear.)     To  render  it  secure,   it  must  be  in 
the  hearts  of  the  people.     Why  was  it  that 
the  English  had  always  resisted  attenij)ts  upon 
their  Constitution  V  Bucautto  every  liuk  of  tho 


gieat  chain  had  been  conquered  by  resiatance 
to  oppression,  and  by  sacrifices  of  blood — 
(hear,  hear) — by  resistance  to  royal  exactions 
and  assumptions — (hear,  hear) — and  these 
achievements  were  preserved,  held  dear,  un- 
derstood, valued,  and  clung  to  with  all  the 
tenacity  of  that  great  people's  nature.  (Hear, 
hear.)  This  was  the  reason  why  it  rested 
upon  such  a  solid  foundation,  why  it  had 
endured  so  long,  and  was  likely  to  endure  for 
ever.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Constitution  asked 
for  was  to  be  built  on  a  flimsy  foundation, 
consisting  of  certain  ideas  in  the  minds  of  a 
few  men,  who  no  doubt  wished  well  to  their 
country ;  but  that  Constitution  was  new  after 
all,  and  they  could  not,  in  the  small  space  of 
time  they  had  given  to  the  project,  view  the 
whole  subject  in  all  its  bearings  and  aspects, 
as  it  was  desirable  they  should.  The  honor- 
able member  closed  his  remarks  by  reiter- 
ating his  opinion  that  an  appeal  on  the  subject 
was  due  to  the  people  whose  voice  had  not  been 
heard  upon  it.  The  acquiescence  spoken  of 
was  rather  the  patient  awaiting  of  the  details 
which  were  sure  to  be  challenged,  and  the  tes- 
timony of  a  subsidized  press  was  not  to  be 
taken  in  evidence  of  its  general  acceptance. 
He  was  not  prepared  for  one  to  take  or  reject 
the  measure  as  presented.  He  believed  the 
people  would  not  approve  of  such  a  course, 
and,  even  were  it  infinitely  better  than  it  was, 
he  would  not  take  the  responsibility  of  voting 
for  it  unless  after  it  had  been  submitted  to 
the  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  would  now 
move  his  amendment,  which  was  as  follows : 

That  the  following  words  be  added  to  the  reio- 
lutiou  now  under  consideration,  as  an  amend- 
ment, by  submitting  for  the  eighth  resolution  the 
following : — 

Upper  Canada  to  be  reprcBented  in  the  Legis- 
lative Council  by  twenty-four  elective  members, 
and  Lower  Canada  by  twenty-four  elective  mem- 
bers, and  the  Maritime  Provinces  by  twenty-four 
members,  corresponding  with  the  twenty-four 
elective  members  in  each  section  of  Canada,  of 
which  Nova  Scotia  shall  have  ten,  New  Brunswick 
ten,  and  Prince  Etlward  Island  shall  have  tour, 
and  the  present  members  of  tho  Legislative  Coun- 
cil of  Canada,  as  well  life  members  as  elective 
members,  shall  be  members  of  the  liist  Legisla- 
tive Council  of  the  Federal  Purliamcnt — the  ap- 
|)ointed  members  to  remain  for  life,  and  tli<>  elei^ 
tive  members  for  eight  years  tVom  tho  date  of 
their  election,  unless  removed  by  death  or  other 
cause  ;  their  successore  to  be  elected  by  the  same 
divisions  and  electors  as  have  elected  them  ;  and 
it  shall  be  permitted  to  the  Maritime  Provincea  to 
a|)p('int  ten  additional  members  for  life,  tour  for 
New  Brunswick,  four  for  Nova  Scotia,  and  two 
for  I'rince  lildward  Island,  to  corresponu  with  th« 


-53q 


f25 


present  life  members  from  Canada,  and  that  after 
the  first  appointment  of  members  in  the  Maritime 
Provinces,  no  new  appointment  shall  be  made,  ex- 
cept to  supply  the  vacancies  by  death  or  otherwise 
in  the  twenty-four  members  appointed  to  corres- 
pond with  the  elective  members  from  the  two 
sections  of  Canada. 

And  that  in  the  eleventh  section,  after  the  word 
"  Council,"  in  the  first  line,  the  following  words 
be  added:  "in  the  Maritime  Provinces." 

And  that  section  fourteen  be  struck  out. 

Seconded  by  Hon.  Mr.  Bureau. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON  briefly  ad- 
dressed the  House  in  opposition  to  the  amend- 
ment until  the  hour  of  adjournment,  six 
o'clock,  arrived.  His  remarks  will  be  found 
recapitulated  in  the  commencement  of  his 
speech  on  Friday. 

At  six  o'clock  the  debate  was  adjourned, 
Hon.  Mr.  Macpherson  having  the  floor. 


LEGISLATIVE   ASSEMBLY. 


Thursday,  Februwry  9,  1865. 

The  order  of  the  day  for  resuming  the 
adjourned  debate  on  the  proposed  Address 
to  Her  Majesty,  on  the  subject  of  the  Con- 
federation of  the  British  North  American 
Provinces  having  been  called  ; 

The  Honorable  Mr.  McGtEE  said — Mr. 
Speaker,  I  rise  to  endeavor  to  fulfil  the 
promise  made  in  my  name  last  evening  by 
the  Lower  Canadian  leader  of  this  House. 
After  the  four  speeches  that  have  already 
been  delivered  from  this  quarter  of  the 
House,  it  may  very  well  be  supposed  that 
little  of  essential  importance  remains  to  be 
said.  On  Monday  the  Attorney  G-eneral 
West,  in  exposing  the  case  for  the  Govern- 
ment, in  moving  this  Address  to  Her 
Majesty,  went  very  fully  through  all  the 
items  of  the  resolutions  agreed  upon  at  the 
Quebec  Conference,  and  gave  us  a  full 
analysis  of  the  whole  project  with  his  own 
constitutional  commentaries  upon  the  pro- 
ceedings of  that  body.  On  the  next  evening, 
the  Attorney  General  East  gave  us  his  views 
also,  treating  chiefly  of  the  difficulties  in 
Lower  Canada.  The  same  night,  my  hon. 
friend,  the  Minister  of  Finance,  gave  us  a 
financial  view  of  the  whole  subject;  and  last 
evening  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council 
gave  us  another  extended  financial  and 
political  address,  with  some  arguments  from 
"  the  Upper  Canadian  point  of  view,"  as  the 
phrase  is.    It  may  well  therefore  seem  that 


after  these  speeches  little  of  essential  import- 
ance remains  to  be  stated.     Still  this  subject 
is  so  vast,  the  project  before  the  House  is  so 
vast,   and  comprehends  within  it  so  many 
objects  of  interest,  the  atmosphere  that  sur- 
rounds  a  subject  of  this  importance  is  so 
subtle  and  fluctuating,  that  there  may  be,  I 
am  feign  to  believe,  a  little  joiner-work  still 
left  to  do — there  may  be  a  hiatus  here  and 
there  to  fill  up ;  and  although,  as  far  as  what 
is  called  "  the  preliminary  case"  is  concerned, 
the  question  might  perhaps  very  well  have 
rested    with    the    four     speeches     already 
delivered — there  may  be  some  slight  addi- 
tional contribution  made,  and,  such  as  it  is, 
in  my  own  humble  way,  I  propose  to  make  it 
to-night.     (Hear,  hear.)     We  all  remember 
that  in  the  nursery  legendof  the  Three  Kings 
of  Cologne,   Caspar  brought  myrrh,   and 
Melchior  incense,   and  Baltassar  gold, 
but  I  am  afraid  my  contribution  will  be  less 
valuable  than  any  of  these,  yet  such  as  it  is 
I  cheerfully  bring  it,  particularly  when  there 
are  so  many  in  this  and  the  other  provinces 
who  would  like  to  know  what  my  own  views 
are  in  relation^  to  the  present  crisis.  (Hear-) 
With   your    approbation,   sir,  and  the  for- 
bearance of  the  House,  I  will  endeavour  to  treat 
this  subject  in  this  way : — First,  to  give  some 
slight  sketch  of  the  history  of  the  question  ; 
then  to  examine  the  existing  motives  which 
ought  to  prompt  us  to  secure  a  speedy  union 
of  these  provinces ;    then  to  speak  of  the 
difficulties  which  this  question  has   encoun- 
tered before  reaching  its  present   fortunate 
stage ;  then  to  say  something  of  the  mutual 
advantages,  in  a  social  rather  than  political 
point  of  view,   which    these  provinces  will 
have  in  their  union,  and  lastly  to  add  a  few 
words  on  the  Federal   principle  in   general, 
when  I  shall  have  done.     In  other  words,  I 
propose  to  consider  the    question  of  union 
mainly  from  within,  and  as  far  as  possible  to 
avoid  going  over  the  ground  already  so  fully 
and  so  much  better  occupied  by  hon.  friends 
who  have  already  spoken  upon  the  subject. 
My   hon.    friend,   the  member  for   Hoche- 
laga,  thought  he  did  a  very  clevei-  thing  the 
other  evening  when  he  disentombed  an  old 
newspaper    article    of  mine,    entitled    ''  A 
New  Nationality/'  and  endeavored  to  fix  on 
me  the  paternity  of  the  phrase — destined  to 
become  prophetic — which  was  employed  by 
a  very  distinguished  personage  in  the  Speech 
from  the    Throne  at    the    opening    of   the 
session.     I    do  happen    to    remember    the 
article    alluded    to     as    one    of    my    first 
essays  iu  political  writing  in  Canada;  but 


126 


I  am  quite  sure  that  the  almost  forgotten 
publication  in  which  it  appeared  was  ne- 
ver known,  even  by  name,  to  the  illustrious 
person  who  delivered  tho  speech  on 
that  occasion.  But  I  will  own  when  I  saw 
my  bantling  held  up  to  the  admiration  of 
the  House  in  the  delicate  and  fostering  hands 
of  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga,  I  was 
not  ashamed  of  it  j  on  the  contrary,  perhaps 
there  was  some  tingling  of  parental  pride 
when  I  saw  what  ten  years  ago  I  pointed  out 
as  the  true  position  for  these  colonies  to  take, 
about  to  be  adopted  by  all  the  colonies  un- 
der such  favorable  circumstances.  I  do  not 
think  it  ought  to  be  made  a  matter  of  re- 
proach to  me,  or  a  cause  for  belittling  the 
importance  of  the  subject,  that  ten  years  ago 
I  used  the  identical  phrase  employed  in  the 
Speech  from  the  Throne.  The  idea  itself  is 
a  good  one,  and  it  may  have  floated  through 
the  minds  of  many  men  and  received  intel- 
lectual hospitality  even  from  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  himself.  One  is  re- 
minded bj  this  sort  of  thing,  of  Puffin  the 
Critic.  "  Two  people  "  happened  ''  to  hit 
upon  the  same  thought,  and  Shakspere 
made  use  of  it  first — that's  all."  (Laughter.) 
My  honorable  friend  is  in  this  respect,  no 
doubt,  the  Shakspere  of  the  new  nation- 
ality. (Renewed  laughter.)  If  there  is  any- 
thing in  the  article  he  has  read  to  the  House 
which  is  deserving  of  disapprobation,  he  is 
particeps  criminis,  and  equally  blameable  if 
not  more  blameable  than  myself.  He  is  in- 
deed the  older  sinner,  and  1  bow  to  him  in 
that  character  with  all  proper  humility. 
(Renewed  laughter.)  Really,  Mr.  Speaker, 
the  attempt  to  fix  the  parentage  of  this  child 
of  many  fathers  is  altogether  absurd  and 
futile.  It  is  almost  as  ridiculous  as  the  at- 
tempt to  fix  the  name  of  this  new  Confeder- 
ation, in  advance  of  the  decision  of  the 
Grracious  Lady  to  whom  the  matter  is  to  be 
referred.  I  have  read  in  one  newspaper 
published  in  a  western  city  not  less  than  a 
dozen  attempts  of  this  nature.  One  indi- 
vidual chooses  Tuponia  and  another  Hochel- 
aga, as  a  suitable  name  for  the  new  n<«tional- 
ity.  Now  I  would  ask  any  hon.  jueinber  of 
this  House  how  he  would  fod  if  he  woke  up 
some  fine  morning  and  found  hiuisclf,  instead 
of  a  Canadian,  a  Tuponiau  or  Hoohelagan- 
der.  (Laughter.)  1  think,  sir,  we  may 
safely  leave  for  tho  proscnt  the  discussion 
of  tho  name  as  well  as  the  origin  ul  tho  ucw 
fiystem  proj)oned  ;  when  tlie  Confederation 
has  a  placu  among  tlic  nations  of  the  world, 
and  opens  a  now  page  in  history,  it  will  bo 


time  enough  to  look  into  its  antecedents,  and 
when  it  has  reached  this  stage  there  are  a 
few  men  who,  having  struggled  for  it  in  its 
earlier  difficulties,  will  then   deserve  to  be 
honorably  mentioned.     I  shall  not  be  guilty 
of  the  bad  taste  of  complimenting  those  with 
whom  I  have  the  honor  to  be  associated  ; 
but  when  we  reach  the  stage  of  research, 
which  lies  far  beyond  the  stage  of  delibera- 
tion in  these  affairs,   there  are  some  names 
that  ought  not  to    be    forgotten.       (Hear, 
hear.)     So  far  back  as  the  year  1800,  tho 
Honorable   Mr.  Uniacke,  a  leading  politi- 
cian in  Nova  Scotia  at  that  date,  submitted 
a  scheme  of  Colonial  Union  to  the  Imperial 
authorities.  In  1815,  Chief  Justice  Sewell, 
whose     name    will    be    well     remembered 
as  a  leading  lawyer  of  this  city  and  a  far- 
sighted     politician,    submitted    a    scheme. 
In   1822,    Sir    John  Beverley    Robin- 
son, at  the  request  of  the  Colonial  Office, 
submitted    a    project    of  the    same   kind; 
and  I  need  not  refer  to  the  report  of  Lord 
Durham  on  Colonial  Union  in  1839.     These 
are   all   memorable,  and  some  of  them  are 
great  names.     If  we  have  dreamed  a  dream 
of  union  (as  some  hon.  gentlemen  say),  it 
is   at  least  worth   while    remarking  that  a 
dream  which  has  been  dreamed  by  such  wise 
and  good  men,  may,  for  aught  we   know  or 
you  know,  have  been  a  sort  of  vision— a  vision 
foreshadowing  forthcoming  natural  events  in 
a  clear  intelligence.     A  vision  (I  say  it  with- 
out irreverence,  for  the  event  concerns  the 
lives  of  millions  living,  and  yet  to  come)  re- 
sembling those  seen  by  the  Daniels  and 
Josephs  of  old,  foreshadowing  the  trials  of 
the  future  ;  the  fate  of  tribes  and  peoples  ; 
the  rise  and  fall  of  dynasties.     But  the  im- 
mediate history  of  the  measure  is  sufficiently 
wonderful  without  dwelling  on  the  remoter 
predictions  of  so  many  wise  men.       Who- 
ever, in  18(52,  or  even  in  LS63,  would  have 
told  us  that  we  should  see,  even  what  we  see 
in  these  seats  by  which  I  stand — such  a  re- 
presentation   of    interests    acting    together, 
would   bo  accounted,  a.s  our    Scutch  friends 
say,    "  half-daft  ;" — and    whoever,    in    the 
Lower  Provinces  about  the  samo  time,  would 
have  ventured  to  foretell  tho  composition  of 
their  delegations,  which   sat  with   us  under 
this    roof    last    October,    would     probably 
have     been    considered     oquiiliy    demrntod. 
(Laughter.)   But  tho  thing  came  about,  and 
if  those  gnitlemon,  who  have  had  no  imme- 
diate hand   in  bringing  it  about,  »nd  thoro- 
foro   naturally  felt  less  interest  in  the   pro- 
ject than  wo  who  did,  will  only  give  ub  the 


127 


benefit  of  the  doubt,  will  only  assume  that 
we  are  not  all  altogether  wrong-headed,  we 
hope  to  show  them  etill  farther,  as  we  think 
we  have  already  shown  them,  that  we  are  by 
no  means  without  reason  in  entering  on  this 
enterprise.  I  submit,  however,  we  may  very 
well  dismiss  the  antecedent  history  of  the 
question  for  the  present :  it  grew  from  an 
unnoticed  feeble  plant,  to  be  a  stately  and 
flourishing  tree,  and  for  my  part  any  one 
that  pleases  may  say  he  made  the  tree  grow, 
if  I  can  only  have  hereafter  my  fair  share 
of  the  shelter  and  the  shade.  (Cheers.)  But 
in  the  present  stage  of  the  question,  the  first 
real  stage  of  its  success — the  thing  that  gave 
importance  to  theory  in  men's  minds — was 
the  now  celebrated  despatch,  signed  by  two 
members  of  this  Government  and  an  hon. 
gentleman  formerly  their  colleague,  a  mem- 
ber of  the  other  House ;  I  refer  to  the  des- 
patch of  1858.  The  recommendations  in 
that  despatch  lay  dormant  until  revived  by 
the  Constitutional  Committee  of  last  Session, 
which  led  to  the  Coalition,  which  led  to  the 
Quebec  Conference,  which  led  to  the  draft 
of  the  Constitution  now  on  our  table,  which 
will  lead,  I  am  fain  to  believe,  to  the  union 
of  all  these  provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  At 
the  same  time  that  we  mention  the  distin- 
guished politicians,  I  think  we  ought  not  to 
forget  those  zealous  and  laborious  contribu- 
tors to  the  public  press,  who,  although  not 
associated  with  governments,  and  not  them- 
selves at  the  time  in  politics,  addressed  the 
public  mind,  and  greatly  contributed  to  give 
life  and  interest  to  this  question,  and  indi- 
rectly to  bring  it  to  the  happy  position  in 
which  it  now  stands.  Of  those  gentlemen 
I  will  mention  two.  1  do  not  know  whether 
hon.  gentlemen  of  this  House  have  seen  some 
letters  on  colonial  union,  written  in  1855,  the 
last  addressed  to  the  late  Duke  of  New- 
castle, by  Mr.  P.  S.  Hamilton,  an  able 
public  writer  of  Nova  Scotia,  and  the  pre- 
sent Gold  Commissioner  of  that  province ; 
but  I  take  this  opportunity  of  bearing  my 
testimony  to  his  well-balanced  judgment, 
political  sagacity  and  the  skilful  handling 
the  subject  received  from  him  at  a  very  early 
period.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  is  another 
little  book  written  in  English,  six  or  seven 
years  ago,  to  which  I  must  refer.  It  is  a 
pamphlet,  which  met  with  an  extraordinary 
degree  of  success,  entitled  Nova  Britannia, 
by  my  hon.  friend  the  member  for  South 
Lanark  (Mr.  Morris)  ;  and  as  he  has 
been  one  of  the  principal  agents  in  bringing 
into    existence    th«    present    Government, 


which  is  now  carrying  out  the  idea  embodied 
in  his  book,  T  trust  he  will  forgive  me  if  I 
take  the  opportunity,  although  he  is  present, 
of  reading  a  single  sentence  to  show  how  far 
he  was  in  advance  and  how  true  he  was  to 
the  coming  event,  which  we  are  now  consid- 
ering. At  page  57  of  his  pamphlet — which 
I  hope  will  be  reprinted  among  the  political 
miscellanies  of  the  provinces  when  we  are 
one  country  and  one  people — I  find  this 
paragraph : — 

The  dealing  with  the  destinies  of  a  future 
Britannic  empire,  the  shaping  its  course,  the  lay- 
ing its  foundations  broad  and  deep,  and  the  erect- 
ing thereon  a  noble  and  enduring  superstructure, 
are  indeed  duties  that  may  well  evoke  the  ener- 
gies of  our  people,  and  nerve  the  arms  and  give 
power  and  enthusiasm  to  the  aspirations  of  all 
true  patriots.  The  very  magnitude  of  the  inter- 
ests involved,  will,  I  doubt  not,  elevate  many 
amongst  us  above  the  demands  of  mere  sectional- 
ism, and  enable  them  to  evince  sufficient  compre- 
hensiveness of  mind  to  deal  in  the  spirit  of  real 
statesmen  with  issues  so  momentous,  and  to  origi- 
nate  and  develope  a  national  line  of  commercial 
and  general  policy,  such  as  will  prove  adapted  to 
the  wants  and  exigencies  of  our  position. 

There  are  many  other  excellent  passages 
in  the  work,  but  I  will  not  detain  the  House 
with  many  quotations.  The  spirit  that 
animates  the  whole  will  be  seen  from  the 
extract  I  have  read.  But  whatever  the 
private  writer  in  his  closet  may  have  con- 
ceived, whatever  even  the  individual  states- 
man may  have  designed,  so  long  as  the 
public  mind  was  uninterested  in  the  adop- 
tion, even  in  the  discussion  of  a  change  in 
our  position  so  momentous  as  this,  the  union 
of  these  separate  provinces,  the  individual 
laboured  in  vain — perhaps  sir,  not  wholly  in 
vain,  for  although  his  work  may  not  have 
borne  fruit  then,  it  was  kindling  a  fire  that 
would  ultimately  light  up  the  whole  political 
horizon,  and  herald  the  dawn  of  a  better  day 
for  our  country  and  our  people.  Events 
stronger  than  advocacy,  events  stronger  than 
men,  have  come  in  at  last  like  the  fire 
behind  the  invisible  writing  to  bring  out  the 
truth  of  these  writings  and  to  impress  them 
upon  the  mind  of  every  thoughtful  man  who 
has  considered  the  position  and  probable 
future  of  these  scattered  provinces.  (Cheers.) 
Before  I  go  further  into  the  details  of  my 
subject,  I  will  take  this  opportunity  of  con- 
gratulating this  House  and  the  public  of  all 
the  provinces  upon  the  extraordinary  activity 
which  has  been  given  to  this  subject  since 
it  has  become  a  leading  topic  of  public 
discussion  in  the  maritime,  and  what  I  may 


128 


call  relatively  to  them,  the  inland  provinces. 
It  is    astonishing  how   active   has  been  the 
public  mind  in  all   those  communities  since 
the  subject  has  been  fairly  launched.  I  have 
watched  with  great  attention  the  expression 
of  public  opinion  in  the  Lower  Provinces  as 
well  as  in  our  own,  and  I  am  rejoiced  to 
find  that  even  in  the  smalledt  of  the  pro- 
vinces I  have  been  able  to  read  writings  and 
speeches    which  would  do   no   discredit  to 
older  and    more  cultivated   communities — 
articles  and  speeches  worthy  of  any  press  and 
of  any  audience.     The  provincial  mind,  it 
would  seem,  under  the  inspiration  ot  a  great 
question,  leaped  at  a  single  bound  out  of  the 
slough  of  mere  mercenary  struggles  for  office, 
and  took  post  on  the  high  and  honorable 
ground  from  which  alone  this  great  subject 
can  be  taken  in  in  all  its  dimensions, — had 
risen  at  once  to  the  true  dignity  of  this 
discussion  with  an  elasticity  that  does  honor 
to  the  communities  that  have  exhibited  it, 
and  gives  assurance  that  we  have  the  metal, 
the  material,  out  of  which  to  construct  a  new 
and   vigorous   nationality.     (Ciieers.)     We 
find  in  the  journals  and  in  the  speeches  of 
public  men  in  the  Lower  Provinces  a  discus- 
sion of  the  first  principles  of  government,  a 
discussion  of  the  principles  of  constitutional 
law,  and  an  intimate  knowledge  and  close 
application  of  the  leading  facts  in  constitu- 
tional history,  which  gives  to  me  at  least  the 
satisfaction  and  assurance  that,  if  we  never 
went  farther  in  this  matter,  we  have  put  an 
end  for  the  present,  and  I  hope  for  long,  to 
bitterer  and  smaller  controversies.    We  have 
given  the  people  some  sound  mental  food, 
and  to  every  man  who  has  a  capacity  for 
discussion  we  have  given  a  topic  upon  which 
he  can  fitly  exercise  his  powers,  no  longer 
gnawing  at  a  file  and  wasting  his  abilities  in 
the  poor  efifort  of  advancing  the  ends  of  some 
paltry  faction  or  party.     I  can  congratulate 
this  House  and  province  and  the  provinces 
below,  that   such  is  the   case,   and   I  may 
observe,  with  some  satisfaction,  that  the  va- 
rious authors  and  writers  seem  to  be  speak- 
ing or  writing  as  if  in  the  visible  presence 
of  all  the  colonies.  (Hear,  hear.)     They  are 
no  longer   hole-and-corner  celebrities  :  they 
Beem    to    think    that    their   words    will    bo 
scanned  and   weighed  afar  off  as  well  as  at 
homo.    We  have,  I  believe,  several  hundred 
celebrities    in    Canada  —  my    friend    Mr. 
Morgan,  I  beliave,  has  made  out  a  list  of 
them — (laughter)— but  they  are  uo   longer 
now  local   celebrities ;    if  celebrities  at  all 


they  must  be  celebrities  for  British  North 
America  ;    for   every  one  of  the  speeches 
made  by  them  on  this  subject  is  watched  in 
all  the  provinces,  and  in  point  of  fact  by  the 
mere  appearance  of  political  union,  we  have 
made  a  mental  union  among  the  people  of 
all  these   provinces ;    and   many  men  now 
speak  with  a  dignity  and  carefulness  which 
formerly  did  not  characterize  them,  when 
they  were  watched  only  by  their  own  narrow 
and  struggling   section,  and  weighed  only 
according    to    a    stunted    local     standard. 
(Hear,   hear.)      Federation,   I    hope,   may 
supply  to  all  our  public  men  just  ground  for 
uniting  in  nobler  and  more  profitable  contests 
than  those  which  have  signalized  the  past. 
(Hear,|hear.)  We  on  this  side,  Mr.  Speaker, 
propose   for  that   better  future   our  plan  of 
union ;    and,  if  you  will  allow  me,  I  shall 
go  over  what  appear   to  me   the  principal 
motives    which    exist   at    present   for    that 
union.    My  hon.  friend  the  Finance  Minister 
mentioned  the  other  evening  several  strong 
motives  for  union — free  access  to  the  sea,  an 
extended  market,  breaking  down  of  hostile 
tariffs,  a  more  diversified  field  for  labor  and 
capital,  our  enhanced  credit  with  England, 
and  our  greater  effectiveness  when  united 
for  assistauce  in  time  of  danger.     (Cheers.) 
The   Hon.  President   of  the   Council   also 
enumerated   several   motives    for   union   in 
relation  to  the  commercial -advantages  which 
will  flow  from  it,  and  other  powerful  reasons 
which  may  be  advanced  in  favor  of  it.  But  the 
motives  to  such  a  comprehensive  change  as 
we  propose,  must  be  mixed  motives — partly 
commercial,  partly  military,  and  partly  poli- 
tical; and  I  shall  go  over  a  few — not  strained 
or  simulated — motives  which  are  entertained 
by  many  people  of  all  these  provinces,  and 
are  rather  of  a  social,  or,  strictly  speaking, 
political,  than  of  a  financial  kind.     In  the 
first  place,  I  echo  what  was  stated  in  the 
speech  last  night  of  my  honorable  friend,  the 
President  of   the  Council — that  we  cannot 
stand  still;  we  cannot  stave  off  some  great 
change  ;   we  cannot  stand   alone,   provinoe 
apart  from  provinoe,  if  we  would ;  and  that 
wo  are  in  a  state  of  political  transition.     All, 
even  honorable  gentlemen  who  are  opposed 
to  this  union,  admit  that  we  must  do  some- 
thing, and  that  that  something  must  not  be 
a  mere  temporary  expedient.     Wo  are  com- 
pelled, by  warning  voices  from  within  and 
without,  to   make    a   change,  and   a   groat 
change.     Wo  all,  with  one  voice,  who  are 
unionists,  dooUro  our  conviction  that  wa  om- 


129 


not  go  on  as  we  have  gone;  but  you,  ■vslio 
are  all  anti-unionists,  say — "  Oh !  that  is 
bagging  the  question ;  you  have  not  yet 
proved  that."  "Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  what 
proofs  do  the  gentlemen  want  ?  I  presume 
there  are  three  influences  which  determine 
any  great  change  in  the  course  of  any  indi- 
vidual or  state.  First — his  patron,  owner, 
employer,  protector,  ally,  or  friend ;  or,  in 
politics,  "  Imperial  connection."  Secondly — 
his  partner,  comrade,  or  fellow-laborer,  or 
near  neighbor.  And,  thirdly, — the  man 
himself,  or  the  state  itself.  Now,  in  our 
case,  all  three  causes  have  concurred  to  warn 
and  force  us  into  a  new  course  of  conduct. 
What  are  these  warnings  ?  We  have  had  at 
least  three.  The  first  is  from  Eij gland,  and 
is  a  friendly  warning.  England  warned  us 
by  several  matters  of  fact,  according  to  her 
custom,  rather  than  verbiage,  that  the  colo- 
nies had  entered  upon  a  new  era  of  existence, 
a  new  phase  in  their  career.  She  has  given 
us  this  warning  in  several  different  shapes — 
when  she  gave  us  "  Responsible  Grovern- 
ment" — when  she  adopted  Free  Trade — when 
she  repealed  the  Navigation  Jaws — and  when, 
three  or  four  years  ago,  she  commenced  that 
series  of  official  despatches  in  relation  to 
militia  and  defence  which  she  has  ever  since 
poured  in  on  us,  in  a  steady  stream,  always 
bearing  the  same  solemn  burthen — "  prepare ! 
prepare!  prepare!"  These  warnings  gave 
us  notice  that  the  old  order  of  things  between 
the  colonies  and  the  Mother  Country  had 
ceased,  and  that  a  new  order  must  take  its 
place.  (Hear,  hear.)  About  four  years 
ago,  the  first  despatches  began  to  be  address- 
ed to  this  country,  from  the  Colonial  Office, 
upon  the  subject.  From  that  day  to  this 
there  has  been  a  steady  stream  of  despatches 
in  this  direction,  either  upon  particular  or 
general  points  connected  with  our  defence ; 
and  I  venture  to  say,  that  if  bound  up  to- 
gether, the  despatches  of  the  lamented  Duke 
of  Newcastle  alone  would  make  a  respect- 
able volume — all  notifying  this  Government, 
by  the  advices  they  conveyed,  that 
the  relations — the  military  apart  from 
the  political  and  commercial  relations 
of  this  province  to  the  Mother  Country 
had  changed ;  and  we  were  told  in  the  most 
explicit  language  that  could  be  employed, 
that  we  were  no  longer  to  consider  ourselves, 
in  relation  to  defence,  in  the  same  position 
we  formerly  occupied  towards  the  Mother 
Country.  Well,  these  warnings  have  been 
friendly  warnings ;  and  if  we  have  failed  to 
do  our  part  in  regard  to  them,  we  must,  at 
18 


all  events,  say  this,  that  they  were  addressed 
to  our  Government  so  continuously  and  so 
strenuously  that  they  freed  the  Imperial 
power  of  the  responsibility  for  whatever 
might  follow,  because  they  showed  to  the 
colonies  clearly  what,  in  the  event  of  certain 
contingencies  arising,  they  had  to  expect. 
We  may  grumble  or  not  at  the  necessity  of 
preparation  England  imposes  upon  us,  but, 
whether  we  like  it  or  not,  we  have,  at  all 
events,  been  told  that  we  have  entered  upon 
a  new  era  in  our  military  relations  to  the 
rest  of  the  Empire.  ("Hear,  hear.)  Then, 
sir,  in  the  second  place,  there  came  what  I 
may  call  the  other  warning  from  without — 
the  American  warning.  (Hear,  hear.)  Re- 
publican America  gave  us  her  notices  in  times 
past,  through  her  press,  and  her  demagogues 
and  her  statesmen, — but  of  late  days  she  has 
given  us  much  more  intelligible  notices — 
such  as  the  notice  to  abrogate  the  Recipro- 
city Treaty,  and  to  arm  the  lakes,  contrary 
to  the  provisions  of  the  addenda  to  the  treaty 
of  1818.  She  has  given  us  another  notice 
in  imposing  a  vexatious  passport  system  ; 
another  in  her  avowed  purpose  to  construct 
a  ship  canal  round  the  Falls  of  Niagara,  so 
as  "  to  pass  war  vessels  from  Lake  Ontario 
to  Lake  Erie  /'  and  yet  another,  the  most 
striking  one  of  all,  has  been  given  to  us, 
if  we  will  only  understand  it,  by  the  enor- 
mous expansion  of  the  American  army  and 
navy.  I  will  take  leave  to  read  to  the 
House  a  few  figures  which  show  the  amazing, 
the  unprecedented  growth,  which  has  not, 
perhaps,  a  pai'allel  in  the  annals  of  the  past, 
of  the  military  power  of  our  neighbors  with- 
in the  past  three  or  four  years.  I  have  the 
details  here  by  me,  but  shall  only  read  the 
results,  to  show  the  House  the  emphatic 
meaning  of  this  most  serious  warning .  In 
January,  1861,  the  regular  army  of  the 
United  States,  including  of  course  the  whole 
of  the  States,  did  not  exceed  15,000  men. 
This  number  was  reduced,  from  desertion 
and  other  causes,  by  5,000  men,  leaving 
10,000  men  as  the  army  of  the  States.  In 
December,  1862 — that  is,  from  January, 
1861,  to  January,  1863,  this  army  of  10,000 
was  increased  to  800,000  soldiers  actually  in 
the  field.  (Hear,  hear.)  No  doubt  there 
are  exaggerations  in  some  of  these  figures — 
the  rosters  were,  doubtless,  in  some  cases 
filled  with  fictitious  names,  in  order  to  procure 
the  bounties  that  were  offered;  but  if  we 
allow  two-thirds  as  correct,  we  find  that  a 
people  who  had  an  army  of  10,000  men  in 
1861,  bad  in  two  yeara  increased  it  to  an 


130 


army  of  600,000  men.  As  to  their  ammu- 
nition and  stock  of  war  material  at  the 
opening  of  the  war — that  is  to  say,  at  the 
date  of  the  attack  upon  Fort  Sumpter — we 
find  that  they  had  of  siege  and  heavy  guns 
1,952;  of  field  artillery,  231;  of  infantry 
firearms,  473,000  ;  of  cavalry  firearms, 
31,000 ;  and  of  ball  and  shell,  363,000.  At 
the  end  of  1863 — the  latest  period  to  which 
I  have  statistics  upon  the  subject — the 
1,052  heavy  guns  had  becoa:e  2,116 ;  the 
231  field  pieces  had  become  2,965 ;  the 
473,000  infantry  arms  had  become  2,423,000 ; 
the  31,000  cavalry  arms  had  become  369,- 
000,  and  the  363,000  ball  and  shell  had 
become  2,925,000.  Now,  as  to  the  navy  of 
the  United  States,  I  wish  to  show  that  this 
wonderful  development  of  war  power  in  the 
United  States  is  the  second  warning  we  have 
had,  that  we  cannot  go  on  as  we  have  gone. 
(Hear,  hear.)  In  January,  1861,  the  ships 
of  war  belonging  to  the  United  States  were 
83  ;  in  ^December,  1864,  they  numbered 
671,  of  which  54  were  monitors  and  iron- 
clads, carrying  4,610  guns,  with  a  tonnage 
of  510,000  tons,  and  manned  by  a  force  of 
51,000  men.  These  are  frightful  figures  for 
the  capacity  of  destruction  they  represent, 
for  the  heaps  of  carnage  that  they  represent, 
for  the  quantity  of  human  blood  spilt  that 
they  represent,  for  the  lust  of  conquest  that 
they  represent,  for  the  evil  passions  that 
they  represent,  and  for  the  arrest  of  the 
onward  progress  of  civilization  that  they 
represent.  But  it  is  not  the  figures  which 
give  the  worst  view  of  the  fact — lor  England 
still  carries  inore  guns  afloat  even  than  our 
war-making  neighbors.  (Cheers.)  It  is  the 
change  which  has  taken  place  in  the  spirit 
of  the  people  of  the  Northern  States  them- 
selves which  is  the  worst  view  of  the  fact. 
IIow  far  hf.ve  they  travelled  since  the  humane 
Channino  preached  the  unlawfulness  of  war 
— since  the  living  Sumner  delivered  his  ad- 
dresses to  the  Peace  Society  on  the  same 
theme  !  I  remember  an  accomplished  poet, 
one  of  the  most  accomplished  the  New  Eng- 
land States  have  ever  produced,  took  very 
strong  grounds  agiiinst  the  prosecution  of 
the  Mexican  war,  and  published  the  Bigolow 
Papers,  so  well  known  in  American  litera- 
ture, to  show  the  ferocity  and  criminality  of 
war.  He  thus  made  M  r.  Bird-of-Freedom 
Sawin  sing  : — 

Ef  you  take  a  »naoril  an'  draor  it, 
An  go  itiok  a,  fcllor  thru, 
Ouv'ment  won't  nntiwcr  for  it, 
GoU'll  aond  the  bill  to  jou  ! 


(Laughter.)  This  was  slightly  audacious 
and  irreverent  in  expression,  but  it  was 
remarkably  popular  in  New  England  at 
that  time.  The  writer  is  now  one  of 
the  editors  of  a  popular  Boston  periodical, 
and  would  be  one  of  the  last,  I  have  no 
doubt,  to  induce  a  Northern  soldier  to 
withdraw  his  sword  from  the  body  of  any 
unhappy  Southerner  whom  he  had,  contrary 
to  the  poet's  former  political  ethics,  "  stuck 
thru."  (Laughter.)  But  it  is  not  the  revo- 
lution wrought  in  the  minds  of  men  of  great 
intelligence  that  is  most  to  be  deplored — for 
the  powerful  will  of  such  men  may  compel 
their  thoughts  back  again  to  a  philosophy  of 
peace  ;  no,  it  is  the  mercenary  and  military 
interests  created  under  Mr.  Lincoln — which 
are  represented,  the  former  by  an  estimated 
governmental  outlay  of  above  8100,000,000 
this  year,  and  the  other  by  the  800,000  men 
whose  blood  is  thus  to  be  bought  and  paid 
for;  by  the  armies  out  of  uniform  who  prey 
upon  the  army;  by  the  army  of  contractors 
who  arc  to  feed  and  clothe  and  arm  the 
million ;  by  that  other  army,  the  army  of 
tax-collectors,  who  cover  the  land,  seeing 
that  no  industry  escapes  unburthened,  no 
possession  unentered,  no  affection  even,  un- . 
taxed.  Tax  !  tax  !  tax  !  is  the  cry  from  the 
rear  I  Blood  !  blood  !  blood  !  is  the  cry 
from  the  front  I  Gold  !  gold  !  gold  !  is  the 
chuckling  undertone  which  comes  up  from 
the  mushroom  millionnaircs,  well  named  a 
shoddy  aristocracy.  Nor  do  I  think  the  army 
interest,  the  contractiuginterest,  and  the  tax- 
gathering  interest,  the  worst  results  that 
have  groivn  out  of  this  war.  There  is 
another  and  equally  serious  interest — the 
change  that  ha.s  come  over  the  spirit,  mind 
and  principles  of  the  people,  thai  terrible 
change  which  has  made  war  familiar  and 
even  attractive  to  them.  "When  the  first 
battle  was  fought — when,  in  the  language  of 
the  Duke  ol  AVellington,  the  first  "butch- 
er's bill  was  sent  in" — a  shudder  of  horror 
ran  through  the  length  and  brca  ith  of  the 
country;  but  by  and  by  as  the  carnage  in- 
creased, no  newspaper  was  considered  worth 
laying  ou  the  breakfast  table  unless  it  con- 
tained the  story  of  the  butchery  of  thousands 
of  men.  *'  Only  a  couple  of  thousand  killed  I 
Pooh,  pooh,  that's  nothing  !  "  cxcluimed  Mr. 
Shoddy  as  he  sipped  his  colToe  in  his  luxu- 
rious apartment;  and  nothing  short  of  the 
news  ot  ten,  fifteen,  twenty  thousand  human 
beings  struck  dead  in  one  day  would  satisfy 
the  jaded  palate  of  men  craving  for  excite- 
ment^ audauch  horrible  oxcitemcot  as  attend- 


131 


ed  the  wholesale  murder  of  their  fellow 
creatures.  Have  these  sights  and  sounds  no 
warning  addressed  to  us  '(  Are  we  as  those 
who  have  eyes  and  see  not ;  ears  and  hear 
not ;  reason,  neither  do  they  understand  ?  If 
we  are  true  to  Canada — if  we  do  hot  desire 
to  become  part  and  parcel  of  this  people — 
we  ccnnot  overlook  this  the  greatest  revolu- 
tion of  our  own  times.  Let  us  remember 
this,  that  when  the  three  cries  among  our 
next  neighbors  are  money,  taxation,  blood, 
it  is  time  for  us  to  provide  lor  our  own  secu- 
rity. I  said  in  this  House,  during  the  ses- 
sion of  the  year  1861,  that  the  first  gun 
fired  at  Fort  Sumpter  had  ''  a  message  for 
us;"  I  was  unheeded  tlien  j  I  repeat  now 
that  every  one  of  the  2,700  great  guns  in  the 
field,  and  every  one  of  the  4,600  guns  afloat, 
whenever  it  opens  its  mouth,  repeats  the 
solemn  warning  of  EngUnd — prepare — pre- 
pare— prepare  I  (Cheers.)  But  I  may  be 
told  by  some  moralizing  friend,  Oh  !  but 
when  they  get  out  of  this,  they  will  have  had 
enough  of  it,  and  they  will  be  very  glad  to 
rest  on  their  laurels.  They  !  AVho  ?  The 
shoddy  aristocracy  have  enough  of  it  ?  The 
disbanded  army  of  tax-gathers  have  enough 
it?  The  manufacturers  of  false  intelligence 
have  enough  of  it  ?  Who  is  it  possible  will 
have  had  enousrh  of  it?  The  fi<i;htinfr  men 
themselves  ?  I  dare  say  they  would  all  like 
to  have  a  furlough,  but  all  experiences 
teach  us,  it  is  not  of  war  soldiers  tire  but 
of  peace  ;  it  is  not  of  the  sea  sailors  tire,  but 
of  the  land.  Jack  likes  to  land,  and  have  a 
frolic  and  spend  his  money,  so  does  Jack's 
brother  the  fighting  landsman — but  the  one 
is  soon  as  much  out  of  his  element  as  the 
other,  when  parted  from  his  comrades;  when 
denied  the  gypsy  joys  of  the  camp,  when  he 
no  longer  feels  his  sword,  he  looks  up  to  it 
where  it  hangs,  and  sighs  to  take  it  down 
and  be  *'  at  work"  again.  He  will  even  quit 
his  native  country,  if  she  continues  perverse- 
ly peaceful,  and  go  into  foreign  service, 
rather  than  remain  what  he  calls  ''  idle." 
(Hear.)  This  is  experience,  which  I  beg 
respectfully  to  cite  in  opposition  to  the  se- 
ductive, disarming  fallacy'of  my  moralizing 
friend.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Attorney  G-en- 
eral  East  told  us  in  his  speech  the  other 
night,  that  one  of  the  features  of  the  original 
programme  of  the  American  Revolutionists 
was  the  acquisition  of  Canada  to  the  United 
States.  They  pretend  to  underrate  the  im- 
portance of  this  country,  now  that  they  are 
fully  occupied  elsewhere;  but  J  remember 
well  that  tfee  late  Mr.  AVEBSTE&3--who  was 


not  a  demagogue — at  the  opening  of  the 
Worcester  and  Albany  Railway,  some  years 
since,  expressed  the  hope  that  the  railways 
of  the  New  England  States  would  all  point 
towards  Canada,  because  their  influence  and 
the  demands  of  commerce  would  in  time 
bring  Canada  into  the  union  and  increase 
the  New  England  element  in  that  union. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  think,  sir,  I  am  justified 
in  regarding  the  American  conflict  as  one  of 
the  warnings  we  have  received ;  and  the 
third  warning,  that  things  cannot  go  on  in 
this  country  as  they  are,  is  a  warning  voice 
from  within — a  warning  voice  from  our  own 
experience  in  tha  government  of  these  pro- 
vinces. (Hear,  hear.)  On  these  internal 
constitutional  difficulties  existing  among  our- 
selves, which  were  so  fully  exposed  last  even- 
ing by  my  hon.  friend  the  President  of  the 
Council,  I  need  say  little ;  they  are  admitted 
to  have  been  real,  not  imaginary,  on  all 
hands.  An  illustration  was  used  in  another 
place  in  explaining  this  part  of  the  subject 
by  the  venerable  and  gallant  knight,  our 
Premier,  than  which  nothing  could  be  more 
clear.  He  observed  that  when  wa  had  had 
five  administrations  within  two  years,  it  was 
full  time  to  look  out  for  some  permanent  re- 
medy for  such  a  state  of  things.  True — 
most  true  — ConstitutionalGovernment  among 
us  had  touched  its  lowest  point  when  it  ex- 
isted only  by  the  successful  search  of  a  mes- 
senger or  a  page,  after  a  member,  willingly 
or  unwillingly  absent  from  his  seat.  Any 
one  might  in  those  days  have  been  the  savi- 
our of  his  countr3^  (Laughter.)  All  he 
had  to  do  was,  when  one  of  the  five  success- 
ive governments  which  arose  in  two  years, 
was  in  danger,  to  rise  in  his  place,  say 
"yea I"  and  presto  the  country  was  saved. 
(Laughter.)  This  House  was  fast  losing, 
under  such  a  state  of  things  its  hold  on  the 
country ;  the  administrative  departments 
were  becoming  disorganized  under  such  fre- 
quent changes  of  chiefs  and  policies ;  we  were 
nearly  as  bad  as  the  army  of  the  Potomac, 
before  its  "  permanent  remedy"  was  foundin 
General  Grant,  Well !  we  have  had  our 
three  warnings.  One  warning  from  within 
and  two  from  without.  I  dare  say,  sir,  we 
all  remember. the  old  class-book  story  of  Mrs. 
Thrale's  '*  Three  Warnings ;"  how  Death 
promised  not  to  come  after  a  certain  individ- 
ual he  had  unintentionally  intruded  on,  on 
his  wedding  day.  I  say,  unintentionally — 
for  Death  is  a  gentleman,  and  seldom  walks 
in,  unannounced — (laughter) — but  he  pro- 
mised not  to  call  upon  this  particular  per- 


132 


son,  without  giving  him  three  distinct 
warnings.  Well,  the  honorable  gentleman  in 
question — I  dare  say  he  was  honorable,  and 
a  member  of  some  House, — he,  like  all  the 
rest  of  us  expected  to  outlive  everybody. 
But  in  process  of  years  he  fell  lame,  then 
afterwards,  he  became  deaf,  and  at  last  he 
grew  blind  :  then  Death's  hour  had  come 
and  in  spite  of  some  admirable  pleading  on 
behalf  of  the  defendant  in  the  case,  he  had 
his  "  three  warnings''  like  a  Parisian  editor, 
his  case  was  closed,  his  form  was  locked  up, 
and  his  impression  was  struck  off  the  face  of 
the  earth,  and  Death  claimed  and  had  his 
own.  (Laughtor.)  Now,  sir,  we  have  had 
three  warnioss,  and  if  we  do  not  take  heed 
of  them  and  prepare  for  the  possible  future 
condition  into  which  we  may  be  plunged, 
woe  to  us  if  we  are  found  unprepared  when 
the  hour  of  destiny  strikes !  (Cheers.) 
We  have  submitted  a  plan  preparing  us 
for  such  a  contingency,  and  the  Attorneys 
General  East  and  West  have  analysed  its 
constitutional  character,  while  the  Minister 
of  Finance  and  the  President  of  the  Council 
have  treated  it  in  its  financial  aspects.  There 
are  some  objections  taken  to  the  plan,  I 
understand,  but  I  do  not  believe  that  any 
member  will  get  up  in  this  House,  and  de- 
clare that  he  is  an  anti-unionist,  that  he  is 
opposed  to  all  union,  and  that  he  considers 
unibti  unnecessary  and  inexpedient.  (Hear, 
hear.)  1  do  not  know  that  there  is  one  man 
out  of  the  one  hundred  and  thirty  who  com- 
pose this  House,  in  view  of  the  circumstances 
in  which  we  are  placed,  who  will  declare 
that  he  is  opposed  to  any  sort  of  union  with 
the  Lower  Provinces.  One  may  say  that  he 
does  not  like  this  or  the  other  clause — that 
he  does  not  like  this  or  that  feature  of  the 
proposed  scheme  ;  but  still  all  admit  that 
union  of  some  kind  would  increase  our  pro- 
tection and  be  a  source  of  strength.  Some 
honorable  gentlemen,  while  admitting  that  we 
have  entered,  within  the  present  decade,  on 
a  period  of  political  transition,  have  contend- 
ed that  we  might  have  bridged  the  abyss 
with  that  Prussian  pontoon,  called  a  Zoll- 
verein.  But  if  any  one  for  a  moment  will 
remember  that  the  trade  of  the  whole  front 
of  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  •Scotia  gravi- 
tates at  present  along-shore  to  Portland  and 
Boston,  while  the  trade  of  Upper  Canada, 
west  of  Kingston,  has  long  gravitated  across 
the  lakes  to  New  York,  ho  will  see,  I  think, 
that  a  mere  Zollverein  treaty  without  a 
strong  political  end  to  serve,  and  some  poli- 
tical power  at  its  back,  would  be,  in  our  new 


circumstances,  merely  waste  paper.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  charge  that  we  have  not  gone 
far  enough — that  we  have  not  struck  out 
boldly  for  a  consolidated  union,  instead  of  a 
union  with  reserved  local  jurisdictions,  is 
another  charge  which  deserves  some  notice. 
To  this  I  answer  that,  if  we  had  had,  as  was 
proposed,  an  Intercolonial  Railway  twenty 
years  ago,  we  might  by  this  time  have  been, 
perhaps,  and  only  perhaps,  in  a  condition  to 
unite  into  one  consolidated  Government ; 
but  certain  politicians  and  capitalists  having 
defeated  that  project  twenty  years  ago, 
special  interests  took  the  place  great  general 
interests  might  by  this  time  have  occupied  ; 
vested  rights  and  loctil  ambitions  arose  and 
were  recognized ;  and  all  these  had  to  be 
admitted  as  existing  in  a  pretty  advanced 
stage  of  development,  when  our  Conferences 
were  called  together.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
lesson  to  be  learned  from  this  squandering 
of  quarter  centuries  by  British  Americans  is 
this,  that  if  we  lose  the  present  propitious 
opportunity,  we  may  find  it  as  hard  a  few 
years  hence  to  get  an  audience,  even  for  any 
kind  of  union  (except  American  union)  as 
we  should  have  found  it  to  get  a  hearing 
last  year  for  a  Legislative  union,  from  the 
long  period  of  estrangement  and  non-inter- 
course which  had  existed  between  these 
provinces,  and  the  special  interests  which 
had  grown  up  in  the  meantime  in  each  of 
them.  (Cheers.)  Another  motive  to  union, 
or  rather  a  phase  of  the  last  motive  spoken 
of,  is  this,  that  the  policy  of  our  neighbors 
to  the  south  of  us  has  always  been  aggressive. 
There  has  always  been  a  desire  amongst 
them  for  the  acquisition  of  new  territory, 
and  the  inexorable  law  of  democratic  exist- 
ence seems  to  be  its  absorption.  They 
coveted  Florida,  and  seized  it;  they  coveted 
Louisiana,  and  purchased  it ;  they  coveted 
Texas,  and  stole  it ;  and  then  they  picked 
a  quarrel  with  Mexico,  which  ended  by  their 
getting  California.  (Hear,  hear.)  They 
sometimes  pretend  to  despise  these  colonies 
as  prizes  beneath  their  ambition ;  but  had 
we  not  had  the  strong  arm  of  Kngland  over 
us,  we  should  not  now  have  had  a  separate 
existence.  (Cheers.)  The  acquisition  of 
Canada  was  the  first  ambitiou  of  the  Ameri- 
can Confederacy,  and  never  ceased  to  be  so, 
when  her  troops  were  a  handful  and  her 
navy  scarce  a  squadron.  Is  it  likely  to  be 
stopped  now,  when  she  counts  her  guns 
afloat  by  thousands  and  her  tro(>ps  by  hun- 
dreds of  thousands  ?  On  this  motive,  a 
very   powerful   cxpressioo   of    opinion    has 


133 


lately  appeared  in  a  published  letter  of  the 
Archbishop  of  Halifax,  Dr.  Connolly.  Who 
is  the  Archbishop  of  Halifax  ?  In  either 
of  the  coast  colonies,  where  he  has  labored 
in  his  high  vocation  for  nearly  a  third  of  a 
century,  it  would  be  absurd  to  ask  the  ques- 
tion ;  but  in  Canada  he  may  not  be  equally 
well  known.  Some  of  my  honorable  friends  in 
this  and  the  other  House,  who  were  his 
guests  last  year,  must  have  felt  the  impress 
of  his  character  as  well  as  the  warmth  of  his 
-  hospitality.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  he  is 
known  as  one  of  the  first  men  in  sagacity  as 
he  is  in  position,  in  any  of  these  colonies  ; 
that  he  was  for  many  years  the  intimate 
associate  of  his  late  distinguished  confrere. 
Archbishop  Hughes,  of  New  York ;  that  he 
knows  the  United  States  as  thoroughly  as 
he  does  the  provinces,  and  these  are  his 
views  on  this  particular  point ;  the  extract 
is  somewhat  long,  but  so  excellently  put  that 
I  am  sure  the  House  will  be  obliged  to  me 
for  the  whole  of  it : — 

Instead  of  cursing,  like  th»  boy  in  the  up- 
turned boat,  and  holding  on  until  we  are  fairly 
on  the  brink  of  the  cataract,  we  must  at  once 
begin  to  pray  and  strike  out  for  the  shore  by  all 
means,  before  we  get  too  far  down  on  the  current. 
AVe  must  at  this  most  critical  moment  invoke  the 
Arbiter  of  nations  for  wisdom,  and  abandoning 
in  time  our  perilous  position,  we  must  strike  out 
boldly,  and  at  some  risk,  for  some  rock  on  the 
nearest  shore — some  resting  place  of  greater 
security.  A  cavalry  raid  or  a  visit  from  our 
Fenian  friends  on  horseback,  through  the  plains 
of  Canada  and  the  fertile  valleys  of  New  Bruns- 
wick and  Nova  Scotia,  may  cost  more  in  a  single 
week  than  Confederation  for  the  next  fifty  years ; 
and  if  we  are  to  believe  you,  where  is  the  security 
even  at  the  present  moment  against  such  a  disas- 
ter ?  Without  the  whole  power  of  the  Mother 
Country  by  land  and  sea,  and  the  concentration  in 
a  single  hand  of  all  the  strength  of  British  Ame- 
rica,  our  condition  is  seen  at  a  glance.  Whenever 
the  present  difficulties  will  terminate — and  who 
can  tell  the  moment  ? — we  will  be  at  the  mercy  of 
our  neighbois  ;  and  victorious  or  otherwise,  they 
will  be  eminently  a  militiry  people,  and  with  ail 
their  apparent  indifference  about  annexing  this 
country,  and  all  the  friendly  feelings  that  may  be 
talkec\  they  will  have  the  power  to  strike  when 
they  please,  and  This  is  precisely  the  kernel  and 
the  only  touch  point  of  the  whole  question.  No 
nation  ever  had  the  power  of  conquest 'that  did 
not  use  it.  or  abuse  it,  at  the  very  first  favorable 
opportunity.  All  that  is  said  of  the  magnanimity 
and  forbearance  of  mighty  nations  can  be  explain- 
ed on  the  principle  of  sheer  inexpediency,  as  the 
world  knows.  The  whole  face  of  Europe  has 
been  changed,  and  the  dynasties  of  many  hundred 
years  have  been  swept  away  within  our  own  time, 
on  the  principle  of  might  alone — t}ie  oldest,  the 


strongest,  and  as  some  would  have  it,  the  most 
sacred  of  all  titles.  The  thirteen  original  states 
of  America,  with  all  their  professions  of  self- 
denial,  have  been  all  the  time,  by  money,  power 
and  by  war,  and  by  negotiation,  extending  their 
frontier  until  they  more  than  quadrupled  their  ter- 
ritory within  sLxty  years  ;  and  believe  it  who  may, 
are  they  now  of  their  own  accord  to  come  to  a 
fall  stop?  No  ;  as  long  as  they  have  the  power, 
they  must  go  onward :  for  it  is  the  very  nature 
of  power  to  grip  whatever  is  within  its  reach.  It 
is  not  their  hostile  feelings,  therefore,  but  it  is 
their  power,  and  only  their  power,  I  dread ;  and 
I  now  state  it,  as  my  solemn  conviction,  that  it 
becomes  the  duty  of  every  British  subject  in  these 
provinces  to  control  that  power,  not  by  the  insane 
policy  of  attacking  or  weakening  them,  but  by 
strengthening  ourselves — rising,  with  the  whole 
power  of  Britain  at  our  back,  to  their  level ;  and 
so  be  prepared  for  any  emergency.  There  is  no 
sensible  or  unprejudiced  man  in  the  community 
who  does  not  see  that  vigorous  and  timely  pre- 
paration is  the  only  possible  means  of  saving  us 
from  the  horrors  of  a  war  such  as  the  world  has 
never  seen.  To  be  fully  prepared  is  the  only 
practical  argument  that  can  have  weight  with  a 
powerful  enemy,  and  make  him  pause  beforehand 
and  count  the  cost.  And  as  the  sort  of  prepara- 
tion I  speak  of  is  utterly  hopeless  without  the 
union  of  the  provinces,  so  at  a  moment  when 
public  opinion  is  being  formed  on  this  vital  point, 
as  one  deeply  concerned,  I  feel  it  a  duty  to  declare 
myself  unequivocally  in  favor  of  Confederation  as 
cheaply  and  as  honorably  as  possible — but  Con- 
federation at  all  hazards  and  at  all  reasonable 
sacrifices. 

After  the  most  mature  consideration,  and  all 
the  arguments  I  have  heard  on  both  sides  for  the 
last  month,  these  are  my  inmost  convictions  on 
the  necessity  and  merits  of  a  measure  which  alone, 
under  Providence,  can  secure  to  us  social  order 
and  peace,  and  rational  liberty,  and  all  the  bles- 
sings we  now  enjoy  und^rthe  mildest  Government 
and  the  hallowed  institutions  of  the  freest  and 
happiest  country  in  the  world. 

These  are  the  words  of  a  statesman — of  a 
mitred  statesman — one  of  that  order  of 
mighty  men,  powerful  in  their  generation, 
whose  statesmanly  gifts  have  been  cast  in  the 
strong  mould  of  theological  discipline — such 
men  as  were  Ximenes  and  Wolsey.  No 
one  more  deprecates  than  I  do  the  interfer- 
ence of  clergymen  in  mere  party  politics,  and 
I  think  such  is  the  sentiment  also  of  His 
Grace  of  Halifax  ;  but  when  it  is  an  issue  of 
peace  or  war,  of  deliverance  or  conquest, 
who  has  a  better,  who  so  good  a  right  to 
speak  as  the  ministers  of  the  gospel  of 
peace,  and  justice,  and  true  freedom? 
Observe  once  more  these  two  closing  senten- 
ces, "  I  feel  it  a  duty"  says  the  iliusirious 
Archbishop,  ''  to  declare  myself  unequivq^ 


134 


cally  ia   favor  of  Confederation  as  cheaply 
and  as  honorably  obtained  as  possible,  but 
Confederation    at    all    hazards    and    at   all 
reasonable  sacrifices.     After  the  most  mature 
consideration,  and  all  the  arguments  I  have 
heard  on  both  sides  for  the  last  month,  these 
are  my  inmost  convictions  on  the  necessity 
and    merits    of    a    measure    which    alone, 
under  Providence,    can  secure  to  us  social 
order  and  peace,   and  rational  liberty,  and 
all    the    blessings    we    now    enjoy    under 
the  mildest  Government  and   the  hallowed 
institutions     of    the    freest    and    happiest 
country   in    the     world."      (Hear,     hear.) 
The    next    motive    for    union    to    which  I 
shall  refer  is,  that  it  will  strengthen  rather 
than  weaken  the  connection  with  the  empire, 
so  essential  to  these  rising  provinces.    Those 
who  may  be  called,  if  there  are  any  such, 
the  anti-unionists,  allege,  that  this  scheme 
here  submitted  will  bring  separation  in  its 
train.     How,  pray  ?    By  making  these  coun- 
tries more  important,  will  you  make  them 
less    desirable  as  connections   to  England  ? 
By  making  their  trade  more  valuable,  will 
you    make    her   more    anxious   to    get   rid 
of  it  ?    By  reducing  their  Federal  tariff  will 
you  lessen  their  interest  for  England  ?     By 
making    them    stronger    for    each    other's 
aid,    will    you    make  her    less    willing   to 
discharge  a  lesser  than  a  greater  responsi- 
bility ?     But  if  the  thing  did  not  answer 
itself,    England    has    answered     that     she 
"  cordially  approves"  of  our  plan  of  union, 
— and  she  has  always  been  accounted  a  pretty 
good  judge  of  her  own  Imperial  interests. 
(Hear,  hear.)     She  does  not  consider   our 
union  inimical  to  those  interests.      Instead 
of  looking  upon  it  with  a  dark  and  discourag- 
ing frown,  she  cheers  us  on  by  her  most 
cordial  approval  and  bids  us  a  hearty  "  God 
speed"  in  the  new  path  we  have  chosen  to 
enter.      (Hear,   hear.)     J'ut  I    put   it   on 
provincial   grounds   as   well.     We  arc   not 
able  to  go  alone,  and  if  we  attempted  it  we 
would   almost    certainly   go    to    our     own 
destruction — so  that  as  we  cannot  go  alone, 
and  as  we  do  not   desire   union  with  the 
United  States,  it  is  the  duty  of  every  man  to 
do  all  in  his  power  to  strengthen  the  connec- 
tion with  Great  Britain,     And  how  shall  wo 
do  it?     Is  it  by   compelling  the  Imperial 
Government  to  negotiate  at  Charlottctown, 
for  every  man  and  musket  required   lor  our 
defence,  to  negotiate  again  at  Halifax,  and 
again    at   Fredcrickton,    and   agaia    at    St. 
John,  and  again   at  Quebec?     Is  it  by  hav- 
ing these  five  separate  governments  that  we 


are  to  render  the  connection  desirable  and 
appreciated,  or  is  it  by  putting  the  power  of 
these  colonies  into  the  hands  of  one  General 
Government  and  making  the  negotiations 
between  two  parties  only,  thereby  simplifying 
the  whole  transaction  and  expediting  what- 
ever is  to  be  done  between  the  two  countries. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  will  content  myself,  Mr, 
Speaker,  with  those  principal  motives  to 
union  j  first,  that  we  are  in  the  rapids,  and 
must  go  on  ;  next  that  our  neighbors  will  not, 
on  their  side,  let  us  rest  supinely,  even  if 
we  could  do  so  from  other  causes;  and 
thirdly,  that  by  making  the  united  colonies 
more  valuable  as  an  ally  to  Great  Britain,  we 
shall  strengthen  rather  than  weaken  the 
Imperial  connexion.  (Cheers.)  Let  mo 
now,  sir,  call  your  attention  to  the  difficulties, 
past  and  present,  which  tliLs  great  project 
had  to  encounter,  before  it  reached  the 
fortunate  stage  in  which  we  now  find  it. 
When  it  was  first  advocated  by  individuals, 
however  eminent,  of  course  it  had  but  scanty 
chance  of  success.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  was 
the  first  stage;  when,  as  in  1822  and  1839, 
it  found  favor  with  Downing  street,  it  excited 
the  suspicions  of  the  colonists  ;  when  it  was 
identified  with  the  Quebec  and  Halifax, 
railway  project,  it  shared  the  fate, — it  was 
sacrificed  to  the  jealousies  and  dissensions 
which  destroyed  that  particular  undertaking. 
When,  as  in  the  case  of  my  hon.  friend  (Mr. 
Galt's)  motion  in  1858,  and  my  own  motion 
in  1860,  the  subject  was  mooted  in  this 
House  by  a  private  member,  the  Ministry  of 
the  day  could  not  allow  so  grave  a  measure 
to  succeed  in  other  hands  than  their  own ; 
when,  as  was  the  case  in  1858,  the  Ministry 
committed  themselves  to  it,  th-c  Opposition 
complained  that  Parliament  had  not  been 
consulted.  When  Canada  proposed  to  move, 
in  1859,  Newfoundland  alone  responded ; 
when  Nova  Scotia  moved,  in  1860,  New 
Brunswick  alone  agreed  to  go  with  her  ;  at 
all  events,  Canada  did  not  then  consent. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Of  late  years  the  language  of 
the  Colonial  Office,  of  Mr.  Laijoucheue,  of 
Sir  BULWER  Lytton,  and  of  the  lamented 
Duke  of  Newc.vstle,  was*  substantially : 
"Agree  among  yourselves,  gentlemen,  and 
we  will  not  stand  in  the  way."  Ah  !  there 
was  the  rub — "Agree  among  yourselves!" 
Easier  said  than  done,  with  five  colonics  so 
long  estranged,  and  who.sc  former  negotia- 
tions had  generally  ended  in  bitter  contro- 
versies. Up  to  the  last  year  there  was  no 
conjunction  of  circumstances  favorable  to 
the    bringing    about     of   this   union,    and 


185 


probably  if  we  suffer  this  opportunity  to  be 
•wasted  we  shall  never  see  again  such  a  con- 
junction of  circumstances  as  will  enable  us 
to  agree,  even  so  far,  among  ourselves.  By  a 
most  fortunate  concurrence  of  circumstances 
—by  what  I  presume  to  call,  speaking  of 
events  of  this  magnitude,  a  providential 
concurrence  of  circumstances — the  Govern- 
ment of  Canada  was  so  modified  last  spring 
as  to  enable  it  to  deal  fearlessly  with  this 
subject,  at  the  very  moment  when  the  coast 
colonies,  despairing  of  a  Canadian  union, 
were  arranging  a  conference  of  their  own  for 
a  union  of  their  own.  Our  Government 
embraced  among  its  members  from  the 
western  section  the  leaders  of  the  former 
Ministry  and  former  Opposition  from  that 
section,  At  the  time  it  was  formed  it 
announced  to  this  House  that  it  was  its  inten- 
tion as  part  of  its  policy  to  seek  a  conference 
with  the  lower  colonies,  and  endeavor  to 
bring  about  a  general  union.  This  House 
formally  gave  the  Government  its  confidence 
after  the  announcement  of  this  pclicy,  and 
although  I  have  no  desire  to  strain  terms,  it 
does  appear  to  me  that  this  House  did  com- 
mit itself  to  the  principle  of  a  union  of  the 
colonies  if  found  practicable.  That  is  my 
view,  sir,  of  the  relations  of  this  House  to 
the  Government  after  it  gave  it  expressly  its 
confidence.  Other  members  of  the  House 
take  another  view  of  that  matter,  they  do 
not  think  themselves  committed  even  to  the 
principle,  and  they  certainly  are  not  to  the 
details  of  the  scheme.  (Hear.)  After  the 
Coalition  was  formed  an  incident  occurred, 
which,  though  not  of  national  importance, 
it  would  be  most  ungrateful  of  me  to  forget. 
An  intercolonial  excursion  was  proposed  and 
was  rendered  practicable  through  the  public 
spirit  of  two  gentlemen  representing  our 
gi'eat  railway,  of  which  so  many  hard  things 
have  been  said  that  I  feel  it  my  duty  to  say 
this  good  thing — I  refer  to  the  Honorable  Mr. 
FERuiERand  Mr.  Brydges.  (Cheers.)  Forty 
members  of  this  House,  twenty-five  members 
of  the  other  House,  and  forty  gentlemen  of 
the  press  and  other  professions,  from  Canada, 
joined  in  tha*  excursion.  So  many  Cana- 
dians had  never  seen  so  much  of  the  Lower 
Provinces  before,  and  the  people  of  the 
Lower  Provinces  had  never  seen  so  many 
Canadians.  Our  reception  was  beyond  all 
description  kind  and  cordial.  The  general 
sentiment  of  union  was  everywhere  cheered 
to  the  echo,  though  I  am  sorry  to  find  that 
some  of  those  who  cheered  then,>  when  it 
was  but  a  general  sentiment,  seem  to  act  very 


differently  now,  that  it  has  become  a  ripened 
project,  and  I  fear  that  tbey  do  not  intend  to 
act  up  to  the  words  they  then  uttered.  They 
may,  perhaps,  intend  to  do  so,  but  they 
have  a  very  odd  way  of  going  about  it. 
(Laughter.)  V/ell,  sir,  this  was  in  August ; 
the  Charlottetown  Conference  was  called  in 
September,  the  Quebec  Conference  in  Octo- 
ber, and  the  tour  of  the  maritime  delegates 
through  Canada  took  place  in  November. 
Four  months  of  the  eight  which  have  elapsed 
since  we  promised  this  House  to  deal  with  it 
have  been  almost  wholly  given  up  to  this 
great  enterprise.  Let  me  bear  my  tribute, 
Mr.  Speaker,  now  that  I  refer  to  the  Con- 
ference, to  the  gentlemen  from  the. Lower 
Provinces,  who  sat  so  many  days  in  council 
with  us  under  this  roof.  (Cheers.)  A  very 
worthy  citizen  of  Montreal,  when  I  went  up 
a  day  or  two  in  advance  of  the  Montreal 
banquet,  asked  me,  with  a  curious  sort  of 
emphasis — "  What  sort  of  people  ai-e  they  ?" 
— meaning  the  maritime  delegates.  I 
answered  him  then,  as  I  repeat  now,  that 
they  were,  as  a  body,  as  able  and  accom- 
plished a  body  as  I  thought  any  new  country 
in  the  world  could  produce, — and  that  some 
among  them  would  compare  not  unfavorably 
in  ability  and  information  with  some  of  the 
leading  commoners  of  England.  As  our 
Government  included  a  representation  both 
of  the  former  Opposition,  and  the  former 
Ministry,  so  their  delegations  were  composed 
in  about  equal  parts  of  the  Opposition  and 
Ministerial  parties  of  their  several  provinces. 
A  more  hard-working  set  of  men  ;  men  more 
tenacious  of  their  own  rights,  yet  more  con- 
siderate for  those  of  others  ;  men  of  readier 
resources  in  debate;  men  of  gentler  manners ; 
men  more  willing  to  bear  and  forbear,  I  never 
can  hope  to  sec  together  at  one  council  table 
again.  (Cheers.)  But  why  need  I  dwell 
on  this  point  ?  They  were  seen  and  heard 
in  all  our  principal  cities,  and  I  am  sure 
every  Canadian  who  met  them  here  was 
proud  of  them  as  fellow-subjects,  and  would 
be  happy  to  feel  that  he  could  soon  call 
them  fellow-countrymen  in  fact  as  well  as  in 
name.  (Cheers.)  Sir,  by  this  combination 
of  great  abilities — by  this  coalition  of  leaders 
who  never  before  acted  together— ^by  this 
extraordinary  armistice  of  party  warfare, 
obtained  in  every  colony  at  the  same  moment 
— after  all  this  labor  aad  all  this  self  sacrifice 
— after  all  formej:  impediments  had  been  most 
fortunately  overcome — the  treaty  was  con- 
cluded and  signed  by  us  all — and  there  it  lies 
on  your  table.    The  propositiens  contained  in 


136 


it  have  been  objected  to,  and  we  were  remind- 
ed the  other  evening  by  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Chateauguay,  that  we  are  not  a  treaty- 
making  power.  Well,  in  reference  to  that 
objection,  I  believe  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment has  in  certain  cases,  such  as  the  Reci- 
procity Treaty,  conceded  to  these  provinces 
the  right  of  coaction  ;  and  in  this  case  there  is 
the  Imperial  Despatch  of  1862  to  Lord  MuL- 
GRAVE,  Governor  of  Nova  Scotia,  distinct- 
ly authorizing  the  public  men  of  the  colonies 
to  confer  with  each  other  on  the  subject  of 
union,  and  writing  them  to  submit  the  re- 
sult of  their  conferences  to  the  Imperial 
Government.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  assembled 
under  authority  of  that  despatch,  t.nd  acted 
under  the  sanction  it  gave.  Everything  we 
did  was  done  in  form  and  with  propriety, 
and  the  result  of  our  proceedings  is  the  do- 
cument that  has  been  submitted  to  the  Im- 
perial Government  as  well  as  to  this  House, 
and  which  we  speak  of  here  as  a  treaty.  And 
that  there  may  be  no  doubt  about  our  posi- 
tion in  regard  to  that  document  we  say,  ques- 
tion it  you  may,  reject  it  you  may,  or  accept 
it  you  may,  but  alter  it  you  may  not.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  beyond  your  power,  or  our 
power,  to  alter  it.  There  is  not  a  sentence — 
ay,  or  even  a  word — you  can  alter  without 
desiring  to  throw  out  the  document.  Alter 
it,  and  we  know  at  once  what  you  mean — you 
thereby  declare  yourselves  anti-unionists. 
(Hear,  hear.)  On  this  point,  I  repeat  after 
all  my  lion,  friends  who  have  already  spoken, 
for  one  party  to  alter  a  treaty,  is,  of  course, 
to  destroy  it.  Let  us  be  Irank  with  each 
other;  you  who  do  not  like  our  work,  nor 
do  you  like  us  who  stand  by  it,  clause  by 
clause,  liac  by  line,  and  letter  by  letter. 
Oh  !  but  this  clause  ought  to  ruu  thus,  and 
this  other  clause  thus.  Does  any  hon.  mem- 
ber seriously  think  that  any  treaty  in  the 
world  between  five  separate  provinces  ever 
gave  full  and  entire  satisfaction  on  every 
point  to  every  party  ?  Does  any  hon.  mem- 
ber seriously  expect  to  have  a  constitutional 
act  framed  to  his  order,  or  my  order,  or  any 
man's  order  ?  No,  sir,  I  am  sure  no  legisla- 
tor at  least  since  Anachausis  Clootz  was 
"  Attorney  General  of  the  Human  Race"  ever 
expected  such  ideal  perfection.  (Laughter.) 
It  may  be  said  by  some  hon.  gentleman  that 
they  admit  the  principle  of  tliis  measure  to 
be  good,  but  that  it  should  be  dealt  with  as 
an  ordinary  pailiameutary  subject  in  the 
usual  parliamentary  manner.  Mr.  Speaker, 
this  is  not  an  ordinary  parliamentary  mea- 
sure.    We  do  not  legislate  upon  it — we  do 


not  enact  it, — that  is  for  a  higher  authority. 
Suppose  the  Address  adopted  by  this  House 
to-morrow,  is   the  act   of  this    House   final 
and  conclusive?      No.      Ic   is  for  the  Im- 
perial Parliament  to  act  upon  it.      (Hear, 
har.)     It  will  be  that  body  that  will  cause 
the  several  propositions  to  be  moulded  into 
a  measure  which  will  have  the  form  of  law, 
and  these  resolutions  will  probably  be  the 
ipsissima  verba  of  the  measure  they  will  give 
us  and  the  other  provinces.     But  some  hon. 
gentlemen  opposite  say,  that  if  there  be  de- 
fects in  this  measure  they  ought   to  be  re- 
medied now,  and  that  the  Government  ought 
to  be  glad  to  have  them  pointed  out.     Yes, 
surely,  if  this  were  simply  the  act  of  the 
Parliament  of  Canada ,:  but  it  is  not  to  be  our 
act  alone.    It  is  an  Address  to  the  Throne,  in 
the  terms  of  which  other   colonies  are  to 
agree,  and  even  if  we  were  to  make  altera- 
tions in  it,  we  cannot  bind  them  to  accept 
them.     If  we  were  weak  and  wicked  enough 
to  alter  a  solemn  agreement  with  the  other 
provinces,  the  moment  their  representatives 
had  turned  their  backs  and  gone  home,  what 
purpose  would  it  serve  except  that  of  defeat- 
ing the  whole  measure  and  throwing  it  as 
well  as  the  country  back  again   into  chaos. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  admit,  sir,  as  we  have  been 
told,  that  we  ought  to  aim  at  perfection,  but 
who  has  ever  attained  it,  except  perhaps  the 
hon.  member  for  Brome.    (Laughter.)  We, 
however,  did  strive  and  aim  at  the  mark,  and 
we  think  we  made  a  tolerably  good  shot.  The 
hon.  member  for  Chateauguay  will  not  be 
satisfied — insatiate  archer  I — unless   we  hit 
the  bull's  eye.     (Laughter.)  My  hon.  friend 
is  well  read  in  political  literature — will  he 
mention  me  one  authority,  from  the  first  to 
the  last,  who  ever  held  that  human  govern- 
ment ever  was  or  could  be  anything  more 
than  what  a  modern  sage  called  "  an  approxi- 
mation to  the  right,"  and   an   ancient  called 
"  the  possible  best."      Well,  we  believe  we 
have  here  given  to  our  countrymen  ot  all  the 
provinces  the  possible  best — that  we  have 
given  it  to  them  in  the  most  imperative  mo- 
ment— their  representatives  and  ours  have 
labored  at  it,  letter  and  spiri^  form  and  sub- 
stiince,  until  they  found  this  basis  of  agree- 
ment, which  we  arc  all  alike  confident   will 
not   now,  nor  for  many  a  day  to   come,  be 
easily  swept  away.     Btlwrc  I  pass  to  another 
point,  sir,  permit  me  to  pay  my   iributo  of 
unfeigned  respect  to  ono  of  our  Canadian 
colleagues  in  this   work,   who  is   no  longer 
with  us;  I  mean  the  present  Vioe-Chancollor 
of  Upper  Canada  (lion.  Mr.  Mowat),  who 


137 


took  a  constant  and  honorable  share  in  the 
preparation  of  this  project.    (Cheers.)  Now, 
sir,  I  wish  to  say  a  few  words  in  reference 
to  what  I  call  the  social  relations  which  I 
think  ought  to  exist  and  will  spring  up  be- 
tween the   people  of  the  Lower  Provinces 
and  ourselves  if  there  is  a  closer  comrouni- 
oation  established  between  us,  and  also  in 
reference  to  the  social  fitness  of  each  of  the 
parties  to  this  proposed  union.     And  first,  I 
will  make  a  remark  to  some  of  the  French 
Canadian  gentlemen  who  are  said  to  be  op- 
posed to  our  project,  on  French  Canadian 
grounds  only.     I  will  remind  them,  I  hope 
not  improperly,  that  every  one  of  the  colon- 
ies we  now  propose  to  re-unite  under  one 
rule — in  which  they  shall  have  a  potential 
voice — were    once    before    united,  as  New 
France.     (Cheers.)     Newfoundland,  the  ut- 
termost, was  theirs,  and  one  large  section  of 
its  coast  is  still  known  as  "  the  French  shore ;" 
Cape  Breton  was  theirs  till  the  final  fall  ol 
Louisburgh;    Prince  Edward    Island    was 
their  Island  of  St.  Jean,  and  Charlottetown 
was  their  Port  Joli ;  in  the  heart  of  Nova 
Scotia  was  that  fair  Acadian  land,  where  the 
roll  of  Longfellow's  noble  hexameters  may 
any  day  be  heard  in  every  wave  that  breaks 
upon  the  base  of  Cape  Blomedon.    (Cheers.) 
In  the  northern  counties  of  New  Brunswick, 
from  the  Miramichi  to  the  Matapediac,  they 
had  their  forts  and  farms,  their  churches  and 
their  festivals,  before  the  English  speech  had 
ever  once  been  heard  between  those  rivers. 
Nor  is  that  tenacious  Norman  and  Breton 
race  extinct  in  their  old  haunts  and  homes. 
I  have  heard  one  of  the  members  for  Cape 
Breton  speak  in  high  terms  of  that  portion 
of  his  constituency,  and  I  believe  I  am  cor- 
rect in  saying  that  Mr.    Le  Visconte,  the 
late  Finance  Minister  of  Nova  Scotia,  was, 
in  the  literal  sense  of  the  term,  an  Acadian. 
Mr.  CozzANS,  of  New  York,  who  wrote  a 
very  readable  little  book  the  other  day  about 
Nova  Scotia,  describes  the  French  residents 
near  the  basin  of  Minas,  and  he  says  especial- 
ly of  the  women,  "  they  might  have  stepped 
out  of  Normandy  a   hundred  years  ago  !  " 
In  New  Brunswick  there  is   more  than  one 
county,    especially    in    the     north,   where 
business,   and   law,  and  politics,  require  a 
knowledge  of  both  French  and  English.    A 
worthy  friend  of  ours,  Hon.  Mr.  Mitchell, 
of  Chatham,  who  was  present  at  the  earlier 
meetings  of  the  Conference,  owed  his  first 
election  for  one  of  these  counties,  because  he 
was  Pierre  Michel,  and  could  speak  to  his 
French  constituents  in  their  own  language. 
19    - 


I  will,  with  leave  of  the  House,  read  on  this 
interesting  subject  a  passage  from  a  very 
capital  sketch  of  the  French  district  of  New 
Brunswick  in  1863,  by  Lieutenant  Governor 
Gordon  [it  is  in  Gals  ton's  Vacation  Tour- 
ist for  1864],  and  is  exceedinsjly  interesting 
throughout : — 

The  French  population,  which  forms  so  large 
a  proportion  among  the  inhabitants  of  the  coun 
ties  of  Westmoreland,  Kent  and  Gloucester,  ap- 
pears to  me  as  contented  as  the  habitants  of  Vic- 
toria, but  hardly  equally  as  well  off.     There  was 
an  air  of  comfort  and  tnen-etre  about  the  large 
timber  two-storied  houses,  painted  a  dark  Indian 
red,  standing  among  the  trees,  the  numerous  good 
horses,  the  well-tilled  fields  and  sleek  cattle,  which 
is  wanting  on  the  sea  coast.     We  stopped  after  a 
pleasant  drive,  affording  us  good  views  of  the  beau- 
tiful peak  ol  Green  River  Mountain,  at  the  house 
of  a  Monsieur  Violet,  at  the  mouth  of  Grand 
River,  which  was  to  be  our  starting  point.     The 
whole  aspect  of  the  farm  was  that  of  the  mitairie 
in  Normandy — the  outer  doors  of  the  house  gaud- 
ily painted— the  panels  of  a  different  color  from 
the   frame — the   large,  open,  uncarpeted  room, 
with   its   bare,  shining  floor — the   lasses   at  the 
spiuning-wheel — the  French  costume  and  appear- 
ance of  Madame  Violet  and  her  sons  and  daugh- 
ters, all  carried  me  back  to  the  other  side  of  the 
Atlantic.  After  a  short  conversation  with  the  Vio- 
lets, we  walked  down  to  the  bridge,  where  two 
logcanoes,   manned  by  Frenchmen — three  Cyrs 
and  a   Thibaudeau — were   waiting   for  us,    and 
pushed  off  from  the  shore.     A  turn  in  the  river 
very  speedily  hid   from  us  the  bridge  and  farm, 
our  empty  carriage,  and  the  friends  who  had  ac- 
companied us  from  Grand  Falls  standing  on  the 
bank,  in  the   evening  sunshine,  waving  us  their 
farewells,  and  it  was  not  without  pleasure  that  we 
felt  that  the  same  turn  which  screened  them  from 
our  view,'separated  us  for  some  time  to  come  from 

civilized  life.  

It  will  be  observed  Governor  Gordon 
speaks  of  four  counties  in  the  north 
of  New  Brunswick  which  still  bear  a 
marked  French  character.  Well,  gen- 
tlemen of  French  origin,  we  propose  to 
restore  these  long-lost  compatriots  to  your 
protection  :  in  the  Federal  Union,  which 
will  recognize  equally  both  languages,  they 
will  naturally  look  to  you ;  their  petitions 
will  come  to  you,  and  their  representatives 
will  naturally  be  found  allied  with  you. 
Suppose  those  four  New  Brunswick  counties 
are  influenced  by  the  French  vote,  and  tW') 
in  Nova  Scotia,  and  one  in  Newfoundland, 
you  will,  should  you  need  them,  have  them 
as  sure  allies  to  your  own  compact  body,  to 
aid  your  legitimate  influence  in  the  Federal 
councils.  (Cheers.)  I  shall  proceed  with 
my  outline  analysis  of  the  maritime  popula- 
tion, in  order  to  establish   the  congruity  and 


138 


congeniality  of  our  proposed  union.  In 
point  of  time,  the  next  oldest  element  in  that 
population  is  the  Irish  settlement  of  Ferry- 
land,  in  Newfoundland,  undertaken  by  Lord 
Baltimore  and  Lord  Falkland  (Lord 
Lieutenantof  Ireland  at  the  time),  immediate- 
ly after  the  restoration  of  King  Charles  I., 
soon  after  1660.  Newfoundland  still  re- 
mains strongly  Irish,  as  is  natural,  since  it 
is  the  next  parish  to  Ireland — (laughter) — 
and  I  think  we  saw  a  very  excellent  specimen 
of  its  Irish  natives  at  our  Conference,  in 
Ambrose  Shea.  (Cries  of  hear,  hear.)  To 
me,  I  confess,  it  is  particularly  grateful  to 
reflect  that  the  only  Irish  colony,  as  it  may 
be  called,  of  our  group,  is  to  be  included  in 
the  new  arrangements.  (Hear.)  Another  main 
element  in  the  Lower  Province  population 
is  the  Highland  Scotch.  Large  tracts  of 
Prince  Edward  Island  and  Cape  Breton 
were  granted  after  the  Peace  of  Paris,  to 
officers  and  men  of  Frazer's  Highlanders 
and  other  Scottish  regiments,  which  had 
distinguished  themselves  during  the  seven 
years'  war.  If  my  hon.  friend  from  Glen- 
garry (Mr.  D.  A.  Macdonald)  had  be^n 
with  us  last  September  at  Charlottetown,  he 
would  have  met  clansmen,  whom  he  would 
have  been  proud  to  know,  and  who  could 
have  conversed  with  him  in  his  own  cherish- 
ed Gaelic. 

Mr.  D.   a.    macdonald.— They  are 
all  over  the  world.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  McG-EE— So  much  the  better 
for  the  world.  (Cheers.)  And  I  will  tell 
him  what  I  think  is  to  their  honor,  that 
the  Highlanders  in  all  the  provinces  pre- 
serve faithfully  the  religion,  as  well  as  the 
language  and  traditions,  of  their  fathers. 
The  Catholic  Bishop  of  Charlottetown  is  a 
McIntyre;  his  liight  Rev.  brother  of  Ari- 
chat  (Cape  Breton)  is  a  McKinnon  ;  and  in 
the  list  of  the  clergy,  I  find  a  constant  suc- 
cession of  such  names  as  McDonald,  Mc- 
GiLLis,  McGiLLiVRAY,  McLeod,  McKen- 
zie  and  Cameron — all  "  Anglo-Saxons  "  of 
course,  and  mixed  up  with  them  L'ourniers, 
Galvreaus,  Paquets  and  Mai'Tells, 
whose  origin  is  easy  to  discover.  (Cheers.) 
Another  of  the  original  elements  of  that 
population  remains  to  be  noticed — the  U.  ]C. 
Loyalists,  who  founded  New  Bru.iswick,  just 
as  surely  as  they  founded  Upper  Canada,  for 
whom  New  Brunswick  was  made  a  separate 
province  in  1794,  as  Upper  Canada  was  lor 
their  relatives  in  1791.  Their  desceudants 
still    flourish    in    the    laud,   holding  many 


positions  of  honor,  and  as  a   representative 
of  the   class,  I   shall   only  mention  Judge 
Wilmot,   who   the   other  day  declared   in 
charging  one  of  his  grand  juries,  that  if  it 
were   necessary   to   carry  Confederation  in 
New  Brunswick,  so  impressed  was  he  with 
the  necessity   of   the   measure  to  the   very 
existence  of  British  laws  and  British  ins+itu- 
tioEs,  he  was  prepared  to  quit  the  bench  for 
politics.      (Cheers.)      There  are  other  ele- 
ments also  not  to  be  overlooked.  The  thrifty 
Germans   of  Lunenberg,  whose   homes  are 
the  neatest  upon  the  land,  as  their  fleet  is 
the  tightest  on  the  sea,  and  other  smaller 
subdivisions ;  but   I  shall  not  prolong  this 
analysis.     I  may  observe,  however,  that  this 
population   is   almost    universally   a  native 
population  of  three  or  four  or  more  genera- 
tions.    In  New  Brunswick,  at  the  most  there 
is  about  twelve  pei  cent,  of  an  immigrant  peo- 
ple ;  in  Nova  Scotia,  about  eight ;  in  the  two 
islands,  very  much  less.     In  the  eye  of  the 
law  we  admit  no  disparity  between  natives 
and  immigrants  in  this  country ;  but  it  is  to 
be  considered   that  where  men  are  born  in 
the  presence  of  the  graves  of  their  fathers, 
for  even  a  few  generations,  the  influence  of 
that  fact  is  great  in  enhancing  their  attach- 
ment to  that  soil.     I  admit,  for  my  part,  as 
an  immigrant,  of  no  divided   allegiance  to 
Canada  and  her  interests ;  but  it  would  be 
untrue  and  paltry  to  deny  a  divided  afl"ection 
between  the  old  country  and  the  new.    Kept 
within  just  bounds,  such  an  afi"cetion  is  rea- 
sonable, is  right  and  creditable  to  those  who 
cherish  it.     (Hear,  hear.)     Why  I  refer  to 
this  broad  fact  which  distinguishes  the  popu- 
lations of  all  the  four  seaward  provinces  as 
much  as  it  does  Lower  Canada  herself,  is,  to 
show  the  fixity  and  stability  of  that  popula- 
tion ;  to  show  that  they  are  by  birth  British 
Americans;    that   they   can    nearly   all,   of 
every   origin,  use  that   proud    phrase  when 
they   look  daily  from  their  doors,  "this  is 
my  own,  my  native  land."     (Cheers.)     Let 
but  that  population  and   ours  come  together 
for  a  generation   or  two — such  are   the  ele- 
ments that  compose,  such  the  conditions  that 
surround  it — and   their  mutual  descendants 
will  hear  with  wonder,  when  the  history  of 
these  present  transactions  are  written,  that 
this    plan   of  union   could    ever    have   been 
seriously  opposed  by  statesmen  in  Canada  or 
elsewhere.     (Cheers.)     I  am  told,  however, 
by  one  or  two   members  of  this  House,  and 
by  exclusively-minded  Canadians   out  of  it 
that  they  cannot  entertain  any  patriotic  I'eel 


139 


ing  about  this  union  with  New  Brunswick  or 
Nova  Scotia,  and  that  they  cannot  look  with 
any  interest  at    those  colonies,  with  which 
we  have  had  hitherto  so   little  association. 
"  What's  Hecuba  to  me,  or  I  to  Hecuba?" 
Well,  I  answer  to  that,  know  them  and  my 
word  for  it,  you  will  like  them.    I  have  been 
on  seven  or  eight  journeys  there,  and  have 
seen  much  of  the  people,  and  the  more  I  have 
seen    of  them,   the   more    I    respected   and 
esteemed  them.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  say,  then, 
to  these  gentlemen,  that  if  you  want  to  feel 
any  patriotism  on  the  subject ;  if  you  want  to 
stir  up  a  common  sentiment  of  affection  be- 
tween these  people  and   ourselves,  bring  us 
all  into  closer  relation  together,  and  having 
the  elements  of  a  vigorous  nationality  with 
us,  each  will  find  something  to  like  and  res- 
pect in  the  other;  mutual    confidence  and 
respect  will  follow,  and   a  feelii  g   of  being 
engaged  in  a  common  cause  for  the  good  ot 
a  common  nationality  will  grow  up   of  itself 
without  being  forced  by  any  man's  special 
advocacy.     (Hear,   hear.)     The  thing  who 
shuts  up  his  heart  against  his  kindred,  his 
neighbors,  and  his  fellowsubjects,  maybe  a 
very  pretty  fellow  at  a  parish  vestry,  but  do 
you  call  such  a  forked-radish  as  that,  a  man  ? 
(Laughter.)  Don't  so  abuse  the  noblest  word 
in  the  language.  (Hear,  hear.)    Sir,  there  is 
one  other  argument  for  this  union,  or  rather 
an  illustration  of  its  mutually  advantageous 
character,  which  I  draw  from  the  physical 
geography  and  physical  resources  of  the  whole 
territory  which  it  is  proposed  to  unite ;  but 
before  I  draw  the  attention  of  the  House  to 
it,  I  may  perhaps  refer  to  a  charge  that  pro- 
bably will  be  made    against  me,  that  I  am 
making  what  may  appear  to  be  a  non-politi- 
cal speech.     If  it  be  non-political    in    the 
sense  of  non-partisan,  then  I  plead  guilty  to 
the  charge  ;  but  I  think  that  on  some  of  the 
points  to  which  I  have  alluded  the  country 
is  desirous  of  being  informed,  and  as  many 
hon.  gentleman  have  not  had  time  to  make  a 
tour  of  the  country  to  the  east  of  us,  those 
who  have   had  the  opportunity  of  doing  so 
cannot,  I  think,  better  subserve  the  interest 
of   the    community  than    by   giving    what 
appears   to  them  a   fair,  just  and   truthful 
sketch  of  those  provinces  and  their  people, 
and  thus  informing  those  in   Canada  who 
have   not  had  the    opportunity    of  making 
observations   for    themselves    on    the    spot. 
(Hear,  hear  )  It  was  remarked  by  the  late  Sir 
John  Beverley  Robinson,  in  his  letter  to 
Lord  John  Russell  in  1839,  that  if  the  Bri- 


tish Government  had  attempted  to  maintain 
the  ancient  boundaries  of  New  France,  in 
the  treaty  which  acknowledged  the  United 
States,  it  would  have  been  impossible  to  do 
so.     Those  boundaries  extend  to  Ohio  on  the 
south,  and  included  much  of  what  is  now 
called  by  our  neighbours  "  the  North-West." 
There  is  great  force^  I  think,  in  this  obser- 
vation.    But  in  relation  to  what  I  may  call 
the    ground-plan    on    which   we  propose  to 
erect  our  constitutional   edifice,  its  natural 
oneness  is  admirable  to  contemplate.     There 
is  not  one  port  or  harbour  of  all  the  provinces 
now  proposing  to  confederate,which  cannot  be 
reached  from  any  other  by  all  vessels,  if  not  of 
too  great  draught,  without  ever  once  leaving 
our   own   waters.     From   the  head  of  Lake 
Superior  the  same  craft  may  coast  uninter- 
ruptedly, always   within  sight  of   our   own 
shores  nearly  the  distance  of  a  voyage  to  Eng- 
land—to St.  John,  Newfoundland.  (Cheers) 
We  sometimes  complain  of  our  inland  navi- 
gation, that  we  have  it  free  but  half  the  year 
round,  but  what  it  lacks  at  one  season,  it 
amply    compensates    by   its    vast    capacity. 
(Cheers.)     Last  summer,  when   we  visited 
Halifax  in  the   Queen   Victoria,  which  the 
good  people  of  that  blockade  running  strong- 
hold mistook  for  a  Confederate  cruiser,  we 
were   the  better  part   of   a   week  steaming 
away,   always  in    British  American   waters, 
within  sight  of  the  bold  and  beautiful  coasts, 
which  it  was  our  privilege  to  call  our  own. 
(Cheers.)     While  we    were  thus   following 
our  river  system  to  the  open  sea,  I  could  not 
help  often  recurring  to  the  vast  extent  of  the 
whole.      If    any   hon.    gentleman   who    has 
never  made,  and  who   cannot  find  time  to 
make,  a  journey  through  his  own  country, 
will  only  go  to  the  library  he  will   find   an 
excellent   substitute  for   such    a   voyage  in 
Keith  Johnston's  Physical  Atlas,  a  book 
that  when  one  opens  its  leaves  his  brain  opens 
with  the  book.     (Laughter.)  .  He  will  find 
that  our  matchless  St.  Lawrence  drains  an 
area  of  298,(l00  square  miles^  of  which  only 
94,000  are  occupied  by  the  five  great  lakes 
taken  together.     I  shall  not  attempt  to  tread 
in  the  path  of  my  two  friends  who  sit  next 
me  (Hon.  Messrs.  GtALT  and  Brown)  by  ex- 
hibiting in  any  detail  the  prospects  of  mutual 
commercial  advantages    opened  up   by  this 
union.    I  have  prepared  a  statement  on  this 
subject,    giving    certain    general    results, — 
.which  I  do  not  present  as  complete,  but  only 
as  proximately  correct — and  which    I  now 
beg  to  read  to  the  House : — 


140 


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But  there  is  one  special  source  of  wealth  to 
be  found  in  the  Maritime  Provinces,  which 
was  not  in  any  detail  exhibited  by  my  hon. 
friends — 1  allude  to  the  important  article  of 
coal,  I  think  there  can  be  no  doubt  that, 
in  some  parts  of  Canada,  we  are  fast  passing 
out  of  the  era  of  wood  as  fuel,  and  entering 
on  that  of  coal.  In  my  own  city  every  year, 
there  is  great  suffering  among  the  poor  from 
the  enormous  price  of  fuel,  and  large  sums  are 
paid  away  by  national  societies  and  benevo- 
lent^individuals,  to  prevent  whole  families 


perishing  for  want  of  fuel.  I  believe  we 
must  all  conclude  with  Sir  William  Logan 
that  we  have  no  coal  in  Canada,  and  I  may 
venture  to  state,  on  my  own  authority,  an- 
other fact,  that  we  have — a  five  months' 
winter,  generally  very  cold.  Now,  what  are 
the  coal  resources  of  our  maritime  friends,  to 
whose  mines  Confederation  would  give  us 
free  and  untaxed  access  forever  ?  I  take 
these  data  from  the  authority  in  my  hand — 
from  tho  highest  authority  on  the  eubject — 
Taylor's  Coal  Fields  of  the  New  World : — 

Dr.  A.  GES^^:R,  in  a  communication  to  the 
Geological  Society  of  London,  1813,  states  that 
the  area  of  coal  fields  in  New  Brunswick  has 
been  recently  determined  to  be  7,500  square 
miles;  10,000  square  miles,  including  Nova  Scotia, 
but  exclusive  of  Cape  Breton.  Since  his  first 
report  he  has  explored  the  whole  of  this  vast 
region,  and  has  found  the  area  covered  by  that 
coal  formation  to  be  no  less  than  8,000  square 
miles  in  New  Brunswick.  He  says  the  mcst  pro- 
ductive coal  beds  prevail  in  the  interior,  while 
those  of  Nova  Scotia  occur  on  the  shores  of  her 
bays  and  rivers,  where  they  offer  every  ad- 
vantage for  mining  operations.  The  coal  fields 
of  the  two  provinces  are  united  at  the  boundary 
line,  and  belong  to  the  carboniferous  period. 
The  developments  of  almost  every  season  illus- 
trate more  clearly  the  magnitude  of  these  coal 
fields,  which  extend  from  Newfoundland  by  Cape 
Breton,  Prince  Edward  Island,  Nova  Scotia, 
and  across  a  large  portion  of  New  Brunswick  into 
the  state  of  Maine.  Mr.  Hkxwood,  a  geologist 
of  high  standing,  observes  that  the  beauty  and 
extent  of  these  coal  treasures  it  is  impossible  to 
describe.  In  Nova  Scotia,  Dr.  Gesser's  state- 
ments exhibit  an  area  of  coal  formation  of  2,500 
square  miles,  while  Messi-s.  Logan,  Dawson  and 
Brown  greatly  exceed  even  that  area.  Sir  W. 
E.  Logan  demonstrated  by  a  laborious  survey  the 
thickness  or  depth  of  the  whole  group  in  North- 
ern Nova  Scotia  to  be  over  2|  miles,  an  amount 
which  far  exceeds  anything  seen  in  the  coal  for- 
mation in  other  parts  of  North  America;  in  this 
group  there  are  seventy-six  coal  beds  one  above 
flie  other. 

I  must  say,  sir,  that  this  is  a  cheer- 
ing statement  of  facts,  coming  to  us  on 
the  very  highest  authority,  and  I  feel  warm- 
ing with  the  subject,  even  while  mak- 
ing the  statement.  (Laughter.)  These  ex- 
haustless  coal  fields  will,  under  this  plan — 
which  is  in  fact  our  Reciprocity  Treaty  with 
the  Lower  Provinces — become,  liereafter, 
the  great  resource  of  our  towns  for  fuel.  I 
see  the  cry  is  raised  below  by  the  anti-un- 
ionists that  to  proceed  with  Confederation 
would  be  to  entail  the  loss  of  the  New  Eng- 
land market  for  their  coals.  I  do  not  quite 
see  how  they  make  that  out,  but  even  an 


142 


anti-unionist  might  see  that  the  population 
of  Canada  is  within  a  fraction  of  that  of  all 
New  England  put  together,  that  we  consume 
in  this  country  as  much  fuel  per  annum  as 
they  do  in  all  New  England  ;  and,  therefore, 
that  we  oflPer  them  a  market  under  the  union 
equal  to  that  which  these  theorizers  want  to 
persuade  their  followers  they  would  lose. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Sir,  another  cry  raised  by 
the  anti-unionists  below  is,  that  they  would 
have  to  fight  for  the  defence  of  Canada — a 
very  specious  argument.  What,  sir,  three 
millions  and  one  million  unite,  and  the  one 
million  must  do  the  fighting  for  all.  In  pro- 
portion to  their  numbers  no  doubt  these 
valiant  gentlemen  will  have  to  fight,  if  fight- 
ing is  to  be  done,  but  not  one  man  or  one 
shilling  more  than  Canada,  pro  rata,  will 
they  have  to  fight  or  spend.  On  the  con- 
trary, the  greater  community,  if  she  should 
not  happen  to  be  first  attacked,  would  be  ob- 
liged to  fight  for  them,  and  in  doing  so,  I 
do  not  hesitate  to  say,  on  far  better  authority 
than  my  own,  that  the  man  who  fights  for 
the  valley  and  harbour  of  St.  John,  or  even 
for  Halifax,  fights  for  Canada.  I  will  sup- 
pose another  not  impossible  case.  I  will 
suppose  a  hostile  American  army,  on  a  fish- 
ery or  any  other  war,  finding  it  easier  and 
cheaper  to  seize  the  lower  colonies  by  land 
than  by  sea,  by  a  march  from  a  convenient 
rendezvous  on  Lake  Champlain,  through 
Lower  Canada,  into  the  upper  part  of  New 
Brunswick,  and  so  downward  to  the  sea — a 
march  like  Sherman's  march  from  Knox- 
ville  to  Savannah.  "While  we  obstructed 
such  a  march  by  every  means  in  our  power, 
from  the  Richelieu  to  Riviere  du  Loup, 
whose  battles  would  we  be  fighting  then  ? 
Why  the  seaports  aimed  at,  for  our  common 
subjugation.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  the  truth 
is,  all  these  selfish  views  and  arrangements 
are  remarkably  short-sightod,  unworthy  of 
the  subject,  and  unworthy  even  of  those  who 
use  them.  In  a  commercial,  in  a  military, 
in  every  point  of  view,  we  are  all,  rightly 
considered,  dependant  on  each  other.  New- 
foundland dominates  the  Gulf,  and  none  of 
us  can  afford  to  be  separated  fronj  her. 
Lord  Chatham  said  he  would  as  soon  aban- 
don Plymouth  as  Newfoun  land,  and  he  is 
said  to  have  understood  how  to  govern  men. 
Nova  Scotia  and  New  Brunswick  are  Siamese 
twins,  held  together  by  that  ligature  of  hmd 
between  Baie  Verte  and  Cumberland  Ba.sin, 
and  the  fate  of  the  one  must  ibllow  the  fate 
of  the  other      (Hoar,  hear.)     Prince  Ed- 


ward is  only  a  little  bit,  broken  off"  by  the 
Northumberland  Strait  from  those  two  big- 
ger brethren,  and  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
are  essential  to  each  other's  prosperity.  Our 
very  physical  outline  teaches  us  the  lesson  of 
union,  and  indicates  how  many  mutual  ad- 
vantages we  may  all  derive  from  the  treaty 
we  have  made.  Mr.  Speaker,  while  we  in 
Canada  have  no  doubt  of  the  ratification  of 
the  Intercolonial  Treaty,  by  this  House  and 
country,  I  cannot  conceal  from  myself  that 
our  friends  in  the  Lower  Provinces  are  fight- 
ing a  battle  with  narrow  views  and  vested 
interests^  which  are  always  most  bitter  in  the 
smallest  communities.  There  are  coasting 
trade  interests  and  railway  interests  at  work ; 
and  there  are  the  strong  interests  of  honest 
ignorance  and  dishonest  ingenuity.  What 
can  these  men  mean,  who  are  no  fools  ?  Do 
they,  too,  fancy  they  can  get  a  government 
made  to  their  own  private  order  ?  Do  they 
think  they  can  go  on  on  the  old  system  ? 
Do  they  mean  to  give  up  the  country  to  the 
Americans  ?  Why  not  hang  up  at  once  the 
sign,  "these  provinces  for  sale — terms  cash  ! 
— 'greenbacks'  taken  at  fud  value  I"  I  re- 
joice to  see  the  unionists  of  the  3Iaritime 
Provinces  so  resolved,  so  high  spirited  and  so 
united — and  though  their  victory  will  not  be 
won  without  work,  yet  I  feel  assured  it  will  be 
a  victory.  If  the  honest  and  iiiisguided  would 
but  reflect  for  a  moment  the  risks  they  run  by 
defeating,  or  even  delaying  this  measure, 
I  am  sure  they  would,  even  yet,  retract. 
(Hear,  hear.)  If  we  reject  it  now,  is  there 
any  human  probability  that  we  shall  ever  see 
again  so  propitious  a  set  of  circumstances  to 
bring  about  the  same  results  ?  llow  they 
came  about  we  all  know.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  strange  and  fortunate  events  that  have 
occurred  in  Canada;  the  extraordinary  con- 
cessions made  by  the  leaders  of  the  Govern- 
ments below — Dr.TuppEU,  the  Nova  Scotian 
Premier,  for  instance,  admitting  to  his  con- 
fidence, and  bringing  with  him  here  as  his 
co-representatives,  Hon.  Messrs.  Archibald 
and  McCuLLY,  two  of  his  most  detei mined 
political  opponents — can  we  ever  expect,if  we 
reject  this  sch(!me,  that  the  same  or  similar 
things  will  occur  again  to  favor  it?  Can  we 
expect  to  see  the  leader  of  the  Upper  Cana- 
dian conservative  party  and  the  leader  of  the 
Upper  Canadian  liberals  sitting  side  by  side 
again,  if  this  project  fails  to  work  out,  in  a 
spirit  of  mutual  compromise  and  concesBion, 
the  problem  of  our  constitutiounl  difliculties  ? 
No,  sir,  it  is  too  much  to  expect.     Miracles 


143 


would  cease  to  be  miracles  if  they  were  events 
of  every  day  occurreuce ;  the  very  nature  of 
wonders  requires  that  they  should  be  rare ; 
and  this  is  a  miraculous  and  wonderful  cir- 
cumstance, that  men  at  the  head  of  the  Grov- 
ernments  in  five  separate  provinces,  and  men 
at  the  head  of  the  parties  opposing  them,  all 
agreed  at  the  same  time  to  sink  party  differ- 
ences for  the  good  of  all,  and  did  not  shrink, 
at  the  risk  of  having  their  motives  misun- 
derstood, from  associating  together  for  the 
purpose  of  bringing  about  this  result. 
(Cheers.)  I  have  asked,  sir,  what  risks  do 
we  run  if  we  reject  this  measure?  We  run 
the  risk  of  being  swallowed  up  by  the  spirit 
of  universal  democracy  that  prevails  in  the 
United  States.  Their  usual  and  favorite 
motto  is — 

No  pent  up  Utica  contracts  our  powers, 
But  the  whole  boundless  continent  is  ours. 

That  is  the  paraphrase  of  the  Monroe  doc- 
trine. And  the  popular  voice  has  favored — 
ay,  and  the  greatest  statesmen  among  them 
have  looked  upon  it  as  inevitable — an  exten- 
sion of  the  principles  of  democracy  over  this 
continent.  Now,  I  suppose  a  universal  de- 
mocracy is  no  more  acceptable  to  us  than  a 
universal  monarchy  in  Europe,  and  yet  for 
three  centuries — from  Charles  V.  to  Na- 
poleon— our  fathers  combatted  to  the  death 
against  the  subjection  of  all  Europe  to  a  sin- 
gle system  or  a  single  master,  and  heaped  up 
a  debt  which  has  since  burthened  the  pro- 
ducing classes  of  the  Empire  with  an  enor- 
mous load  of  taxation,  which,  perhaps,  none 
other  except  the  hardy  and  ever-growing  in- 
dustry of  those  little  islands  could  have  borne 
up  under.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  idea  of  a  uni- 
versal democracy  in  America  is  no  more  wel- 
come to  the  minds  of  thoughtful  men  among 
us,  than  was  that  of  a  universal  monarchy  to 
the  mind  of  the  thoughtful  men  who  fol- 
lowed the  standard  of  the  third  Williaim  in 
Europe,  or  who  afterwards,  under  the  great 
Marlborough,  opposed  the  armies  of  the 
particular  dynasty  that  sought  to  place  Europe 
under  a  single  dominion.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Buc  if  we  are  to  have  a  universal  democracy 
on  this  continent,  the  Lower  Provinces — the 
smaller  fragments — will  be  "  gobbled  up" 
first,  and  we  will  come  in  afterwards  by  way 
of  dessert.  (Laughter.)  The  proposed 
Confederation  will  enable  us  to  bear  up 
shoulder  to  shoulder;  to  resist  the  spread  of 
this  universal  democracy  doctrine;  it  will 
make  it  more  desirable  to  maintain  on  both 


sides  the  connection  that  binds  us  to  the 
parent  State  ;  it  will  raise  us  from  the  posi- 
tion of  mere  dependent  colonies  to  a  new 
and  more  important  position  ;  it  will  give  us 
a  new  lease  of  existence  under  other  and 
more  favorable  conditions ;  and  resistance 
to  this  project,  which  is  pregnant  with  so 
many  advantages  to  us  and  to  our  children, 
means  simply  this,  ultimate  union  with  the 
United  States.  (Cheers.)  But  these  are 
small  matters,  wholly  unworthy  of  the  atten- 
tion of  the  Smiths,  and  Annands,  and 
Palmers,  who  have  come  forward  to  forbid 
the  banns  of  British  American  union.  Mr. 
Speaker,  before  I  draw  to  a  close  the  little 
remainder  of  what  I  have  to  say — and  I  am 
sorry  to  have  detained  the  House  so  long — 
(cries  of  ''  No,  no'') — I  beg  to  offer  a  few 
observations  apropos  of  my  own  position  as 
an  English-speaking  member  for  Lower  Ca- 
nada. I  venture,  in  the  first  place,  to  ob- 
serve that  there  seems  to  be  a  good  deal  of 
exaggeration  on  the  subject  of  race,  occa- 
sionally introduced,  both  on  the  one  side  and 
the  other,  in  this  section  of  the  country.  I 
congratulate  my  honorable  friend  the  Attor- 
ney General  for  this  section  on  his  freedom 
from  such  prejudices  in  general,  though  I 
still  think  in  masters  of  patronage  and  the 
like  he  always  thinks  first  of  his  own  com- 
patriots— (laughter) — for  which  neither  do  I 
blame  him.  But  this  theory  of  race  is  some- 
times carried  to  an  anti-christian  and  un- 
philosophical  excess.  Whose  words  are 
those — ''  God  hath  made  of  one  blood  all  the 
nations  that  dwell  on  the  face  of  the  earth  V 
Is  not  that  the  true  theory  of  race  ?  For 
my  part,  I  am  not  afraid  of  the  French  Ca- 
nadian majority  in  the  future  Local  Govern- 
ment doing  injustice,  except  accidentally; 
not  because  I  am  of  the  same  religion  as 
themselves ;  for  origin  and  language  are  bar- 
riers stronger  to  divide  men  in  this  world 
than  is  religion  to  unite  them.  Neither  do 
I  believe  that  my  Protestant  compatriots 
need  have  any  such  fear.  The  French  Ca- 
nadians have  never  been  an  intolerant  people; 
it  is  not  in  their  temper,  unless  they  had  been 
persecuted,  perhaps,  and  then  it  might  have 
been  as  it  has  been  with  other  races  of  all 
religions.  Perhaps,  on  this  subject,  the 
House  will  allow  me  to  read  a  very  striking 
illustration  of  the  tolerance  of  French  Cana- 
dian character  from  a  book  I  hold  in  my 
hand,  the  Digest  of  the  Synod  Minutes  of 
the  Presbyterian  Church  of  Canada,  by  my 
worthy  friend,  the  Rev.  Mr.  Kemp,  of  the 


144 


Free  Church,  of  Montreal.     The  passage  ia 
on  page  seven  of  the  introduction  : — 

About  the  year  1790  the  Presbyterians  of 
Montreal  of  all  denominations,  both  British  and 
American,  organized  themselves  into  a  Church, 
and  in  the  following  year  secured  the  services  of 
the  Rev.  John  Young.  At  this  time  they  met  in 
the  Recollet  Roman  Catholic  Church,  but  in  the 
year  following  they  erected  the  edifice  which  is 
now  known  as  St.  Gabriel  Street  Church — the 
oldest  Protestant  Charch  in  the  province.  In 
their  early  Minutes  we  find  them,  in  acknowledg- 
ment of  the  kindness  of  the  Recollet  Fathers, 
presenting  them  with  "One  box  of  candles,  561bs., 
at  8d.,  and  one  hogshead  of  Spanish  wiue  at  £6 
6s." 

(Laughter.)  I  beg  nay  hon.  friends,  who  may 
have  different  notions  of  Christian  intercourse 
at  this  timeot  day,  just  to  fancy  doings  of  th^t 
sort.  (Hear,  hear.)  Here,  on  the  one  hand,  are 
the  Recollet  Fathers  giving  up  one  of  their 
own  churches  to  the  disciples  of  John  Knox 
to  enable  them  to  worship  God  after  their 
own  manner,  and  perhaps  to  have  a  gird  at 
Popery  in  the  meantime — (great  laughter) — 
and  here,  on  the  other  hand,  are  the  grateful 
Presbyterians  presenting  to  these  same  Semi- 
nary priests  wine  and  wax  tapers  in  acknow- 
ledgment of  the  use  of  their   church,  for 
Presbyterian    service.      Certainly    a    more 
characteristic  instance  of  true  tolerance  on 
both  sides  can  hardly  be  found  in  the  history 
of  any   other   country.      I  cite   this   little 
incident  to  draw  from  it  this  practical  moral 
— that  those  who  are  seeking,  and,  in  some 
particulars,  I  believe  justly  seeking,  the  set- 
tleuent  of  Protestant  education    in   Lower 
Canada  on  firmer  ground  than  it  now  occu- 
pies, mighc  well  afford  to  leave  the  two  great 
Seminaries  of  Montreal  and  Quebec  at  peace. 
No   two   institutions   in    Christendom    ever 
more   conscientiously   fulfilled   the   ends  of 
their  erection  j  and  whoever  docs  not  know 
all,  but  even  a  little,  of  the  good  services 
they  have  rendered  to  both  the  people  and 
the  Government  of  Lower   Canada,  to  the 
civilization  and  settlement  of  this   country, 
has    much  yet   to    learn  of  the   history    of 
Canada.     (Hear,  hear.)    To  close  tliis  topic, 
I  have  no  doubt  whatever,  with  a  good  deal 
of  moderation  and  a  proper  degree  of  firm- 
ness,  all    that   the   Protestant   minority    in 
Lower  Canada  can  require,  by  way  of  secu- 
rity  to   their   educational    system,   will  be 
cheerfully  granted  to  them  by  this  House. 
I,  for  one,  as  a  Roman    Catholic,  will  cor- 
dially second  and  support  any  such  amend- 
ments, properly  framed.     I  will  merely  add 


in  relation  to  an  observation  of  n.y  friend 
(Hon.  Mr.  Bkown)    last  night  on  the  sub- 
ject  of  the   Catholic    Separate   Schools   of 
Upper  Canada,  that  I  accepted  for  a.'y  own 
part,  as  a  finality,  the  amended  act  of  18f>3. 
I  did  so  because  it  granted  all  the  petitioners 
asked,  and  1  think  they  ought  to  be  satisfied. 
I  will  be  no  party  to  the  re-opening  of  the 
question ;  but  I  say  this,  that  if  there  are  to 
be  any  special  guarantees  or  grants  extended 
to  the  Protestant  minority  of  Lower  Canada, 
I  think  the  Catholic  minority  in  Upper  Ca- 
nada ought  to  be  placed  in  precisely  the  same 
position — neither  better  nor  worse.     (Hear, 
hear.)     At  present  I  shall  not  add  another 
word  on  this  subject,  as  I  am  not  aware  of 
the   particular   nature   of  the   amendments 
asked  for   at  present,    either  east  or  west. 
(Hear,  hear.)     All  who  have  spoken  on  this 
subject  have  said  a  good  deal,  as  was  natural, 
of  the  interests  at  stake  in  the  success  or 
failure  of  this  plan   of  Confederation.      I 
trust  the  House  will  permit  me  to  add  a  few 
words  as  to  the  principle  of  Confederation 
considered  in  itself.     In  the  application  of 
this  principle  to  former  constitutions,  there 
certainly  always  was  one  fatal   defect,  the 
weakness  of  the  central  authority.     Of  all 
the  Federal  constitutions  I  have  ever  heard 
or  read  of,  this  was  the  fatal  malady  :  they 
were  short-lived,  they  died  of  consumption, 
(Laughter.)     But  1  am  not  prepared  to  say 
that  because  the  Tuscan  League   elected  its 
chief  magistrates  for  two  months  and  lasted  a 
century,  that  therefore  the  Federal  principle 
failed.     On  the  contrary,  there  is  something 
in  the  frequent,  fond  recurrence  of  mankind 
to  this  principle,  among  the  freest  people,  in 
their  best  times  and  worst   dangers,  which 
leads  me  to  believe,  that  it  has  a  very  deep 
hold  in  human  nature  itself — an  excellent 
basis  for  a  government  to  have.    But  indeed, 
sir,  the  main  question  is  the  due  distrifjution 
of  powers — a  question  I  dare  not  touch  to- 
night, but  which  I  may  be  prepared  to  say 
something  on  before  the  vote  is  taken.     The 
principle  itself  seems  to  me  to  be  capable  of 
being  so  adapted  as  to  promote  internal  peace 
and  external  security,  and  to  call  into  action  a 
genuine,  enduring  and  heroic  patriotism.  It  is 
a  fruit  of  this  principle  that  makes  the  modern 
Italian  look  back  with  sorrow  and  pride  over 
a  dreary  waste   of  seven   centuiies  to  the 
famous  field  of  Legnano  ;  it  was  this  princi- 
ple kindled  the  beacons  which  burn  yet  on 
the  rocks  of  Uri;  it  was  this  principle  that 
broke  the  dykes  of  Holland  and  overwhelm- 


145 


ccl  the  Spanisliwith  the  fate  of  the  Egyptian 
oppressor.  It  is  a  principle  capable  of 
inspiring  a  noble  ambition  and  a  most 
salutary  emulation.  You  have  sent  your 
young  men  to  guard  your  frontier.  You 
want  a  principle  to  guard  your  young 
men,  and  thus  truly  defend  your  fron- 
tier. For  what  do  good  men  (who  make 
the  best  soldiers)  fight  ?  For  a  line  of 
scripture  or  chalk  line — for  a  pretext  or  for 
a  principle  ?  What  is  a  better  boundary 
between  nations  than  a  parallel  ot  latitude, 
or  even  a  natural  obstacle  ? — what  really 
keeps  nations  intact  and  apart  ? — a  princi- 
ple. When  I  can  hear  our  young  men  say 
as  proudly,  "  our  Federation"  or  "  our 
Country,"  or  "  our  Kingdom,"  as  the  young 
men  of  other  counti'ies  do,  speaking  of  their 
own,  then  I  shall  have  less  apprehension  for 
the  result  of  whatever  trials  the  future  may 
have  in  store  for  us.  (Cheers.)  It  has 
been  said  that  the  Federal  Constitution  of 
the  United  States  has  failed.  I,  sir,  have 
never  said  it.  The  Attorney  General  West 
told  you  the  other  night  that  he  did  not  con- 
sider it  a  failure ;  and  I  remember  that  in 
1861,  when  in  this  House  I  remarked  the 
same  thing,  the  only  man  who  then  applauded 
the  statement  was  the  Attorney  General 
West — so  that  it  is  pretty  plain  he  did  not 
simply  borrow  the  argument  for  use  the 
the  other  night,  when  he  was  advocating  a 
Federal  union  among  ourselves.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  may  be  a  failure  for  us,  paradoxi- 
cal as  this  may  seem,  and  yet  not  a  failure 
for  them.  They  have  had  eighty  years'  use 
of  it,  and  having  discovered  its  defects,  may 
apply  a  remedy  and  go  on  with  it  eighty 
years  longer.  But  we  also  are  lookers  on, 
who  saw  its  defects  as  the  machine  worked, 
and  who  have  prepared  contrivances  by 
which  it  can  be  improved  and  kept  in  more 
perfect  order  when  applied  to  ourselves, 
And  one  of  the  foremost  statesmen  in  Eng- 
land, distinguished  alike  in  politics  and 
literature,  has  declared,  as  the  President  of 
the  Council  informed  us,  that  we  have  com- 
bined the  best  parts  of  the  British  and  the 
American  systems  of  government,  and  this 
opinion  was  deliberately  formed  at  a  distance, 
without  prejudice,  and  expressed  without 
interested  motives  of  any  description. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have,  in  relation  to  the 
head  of  the  Government,  in  relation  to  the 
judiciary,  in  relation  to  the  second  chamber 
of  the  Legislature,  in  relation  to  the  financial 
responsibility  of  the  General  Government, 


and  in  relation  to  the  public  officials  whose 
tenure  of  office  is  during  good  behaviour, 
instead  of  at  the  caprice  of  a  party — in  all 
these  respects  we  have  adopted  the  British 
system ;  in  other  respects  we  have  learned 
something  from  the  American  system,  and  I 
trust  and  believe  we  have  made  a  very 
tolerable  combination  ot  both  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  principle  of  Federation  is  a  generous 
principle.  It  is  a  principle  that  gives  men 
local  duties  to  discharge,  and  invests  them 
at  the  same  time  with  general  supervision, 
that  excites  a  healthy  sense  of  responsibility 
and  comprehension.  It  is  a  principle  that 
has  produced  a  wise  and  true  spirit  of  states- 
manship in  all  countries  in  which  it  has 
ever  been  applied.  It  is  a  principle  emi- 
nently favorable  to  liberty,  because  local 
afiPairs  are  left  to  be  dealt  with  by  local 
bodies  and  cannot  be  interfered  with  by 
those  who  have  no  local  interest  in  them, 
while  matters  of  a  general  character  are 
left  exclusively  to  a  general  goverment.  It 
is  a  principle  coincident  with  every  govern- 
ment that  ever  gave  extended  and  important 
services  to  a  country,  because  all  govern- 
ments have  been  more  or  less  confederations 
in  their  character.  Spain  was  a  federation, 
for  although  it  had  a  king  reigning  over  the 
whole  country,  it  had  its  local  governments 
for  the  administration  of  local  affairs.  The 
British  Isles  are  a  confederation,  and  the 
old  French  dukedoms  were  confederated  in 
the  States  General.  It  is  a  principle  that 
runs  through  all  th^  history  of  civilization 
in  one  form  or  another,  and  exists  alike  in 
monarchies  and  democracies;  and  having 
adopted  it  as  the  principle  of  our  future 
government,  there  were  only  the  details  to 
arrange  and  agree  upon.  Those  details  are 
before  you.  It  is  not  in  our  power  to  alter 
any  of  them  even  if  the  House  desires  it. 
If  the  House  desires  it  can  reject  the  treaty, 
but  we  cannot,  nor  can  the  other  provinces 
which  took  part  in  its  negotiation,  consent 
that  it  shall  be  altered  in  the  slightest  parti- 
cular. (Hear,  hear.)  Mr.  Speaker,  I  am 
sorry  to  have  detained  the  House  so  long, 
and  was  not  aware  till  [  had  been  some  time 
on  my  legs  that  my  physical  force  was  so 
inadequate  to  the  exposition  of  these  few 
points  which,  not  specially  noticed  by  my 
predecessors  in  this  debate,  I  undertook  to 
speak  upon.  We  stand  at  present  in  this 
position  :  we  are  bound  in  honor,  we  are 
bound  in  good  faith,  to  four  provinces 
occupied  by  our  fellow-colonisti,  to  carry  out 


20 


146 


the  measure  agreed  upon  here  in  the  hit 
week  of  October.  We  are  bound  to  carry  it  to 
the  foot  of  the  Throne,  and  ask  there  from 
Her  Majesty,  according  to  the  first  resolution 
of  the  Address,  that  She  will  be  graciously 
pleased  to  direct  legislation  to  be  had  on  this 
subject.     We  go  to  the  Imperial   Govern- 
ment, the  common  arbiter  of  us  all,  in  our 
tru3  Federal  metropolis — we  go  there  to  ask 
for  our  fundamental  Charter.     We  hope,  by 
having  that  Charter  that  can  only  be  amended 
by  the  authority  that  made  it,   that  we  will 
lay  the  basis  of  permanency  for  our  future 
government.     Tbc  two  great  things  that  all 
men   aim   at  in   any  free  government,  are 
liberty    and    permanency.      We    have  had 
liberty  enough — too  much  perhaps  in  some 
respects — but  at  all  events,  liberty  to  our 
heart's  content.     There  is  not  on  the  ftice  of 
the  earth  a  freer  people  than  the  inhabitaots 
of  these  colonies.     But  it  is  necessary  there 
should  bo  respect  for  the  law,  a  high  central 
authority,    the   virtue   of   civil    obedience, 
obeying  the  law  for  ^thc  law's  sake;  even 
when  a  man's  private  conscience  may  con- 
vince him  sufficiently   that  the  law  in  some 
cases  may  be  wrong,  he  is  not  to  set  up  his 
individual  will  against  the  will  of  the  country 
expressed  through  its  recognised  constitu- 
tional organs.     We  need  in  these  provinces, 
we  can   bear,  a   large  infusion  of  authority. 
I  am  not  at  all  afraid  this  Constitution  errs 
on  the  side  of  too  great  conservatism.     If  it 
be  found  too  conservative  now,  the   down- 
ward   tendency     in    political    ideas     which 
characterizes  this  democratic  age,  is  a  suffi- 
cient guarantee  for  amendment.     That  is  the 
principle  on  which  this  instrument  is  strong 
and  worthy  of  the  support  of  every  colonist, 
and  through  which  it  will  secure  the  warm 
approbation    of   the    Imperial    authorities. 
We   have    here  no   traditions    and    ancient 
venerable   institutions ;  here,  there    arc  no 
aristocratic  elements   hallowed    by  time  or 
bright  deeds ;  here,  every  man  is  the  first 
settler  of  the  land,  or  removed  from  the  first 
settler  one  or  two  generations  at  the  furthest ; 
here,  we  have  no  architectural  monuments 
calling   up  old  associations;  here,  we  have 
none  of  those  old  popular  legends  and  stories 
which  in  other  countries  have  exercised  a 
powerful   share    in   the   government;  here, 
every  man   is  the  soi'  of  his  own    works. 
(Hear,   hear.)      We   have    none    of    those 
influences   about  us  which,  el.sowhere,  have 
their  efl'ect  upon  government  just  as  much 
as   the  invisible   atmosphere   itself  tends  to 
influence   life,   and   animal    and    vegetable 


existence.     This  is  a  new  land — a  land  of 
pretension  because  it  is  new  ;  because  classes 
and  system.,  have  not  had  that  time  to  grow 
heie    naturally.      We   have   no    aristocracy 
but  of  virtue  and  talent, which  is  the  only  true 
aristocracy,  and  is  the  old  and  true  meaning 
of  the  term.     (Hear,  hear.)     There  is  a  class 
of  men  rising  in   these  colonies,  superior  in 
many   respects  to  others  with  whom   they 
might  be   compared.     What  I  should  like 
to  see  is — that  fair  representatives  of  the 
Canadian  and  Acadian  aristocracy,  should  be 
sent  to  the  foot  of  the  Throne  with  that 
scheme,  to  obtain  for  it  the  royal  sanction — 
a  scheme  not  suggested  by  others,  or  imposed 
upon  us,  but  one  the  work  of  ourselves,  the 
creation  of  our  own  intellect  and  of  our  own 
free,  unbiassed  and  untrammelled  will.      1 
should  like   to  see  our  best  men  go  there, 
and  endeavor  to  have  this  measure   carried 
through    the    Imperial    Parliament — going 
into  Her  Majesty's  presence,  and  by  their 
manner,  if    not    actually   by    their  speech, 
saying — "During  Your  Majesty's   reign  we 
have  had  Responsible  Government  conceded 
to  us  ;  we  have  administered  it  for  nearly  a 
quarter  of  a  century,  during  which  we  have 
under  it  doubled  our  population  and  more 
than  quadrupled  our  trade.     The  small  colon- 
ies which  your  ancestors  could  scarcely  see 
on  the  map  have  grown  into  great  communi- 
ties.    A  great  danger  has  arisen  in  our  near 
neighborhood.       Over  our  homes    a  cloud 
hangs,  dark  and  heavy.     We  do  not  know 
when  it  may  burst.     With  our  own  strength 
we  are  not  able  to  combat  against  the  storm, 
what  we  can  do,  we  will  do  cheerfully  and 
loyally.      But  we   want   time  to  grow — we 
want  more  people  to  fill  our   country,  more 
industrious  families  of  men  to  develope  our 
resources — we  want  to  increase  our  prosper- 
ity— we  want  more  extended  trade  and  Com- 
merce— we  want  more  land  tilled — more  men 
established  through  our  wastes  and  wilder- 
nesses.    We  of  the  British  North  AnuTican 
Provinces  want  to  be  joined  together,  that 
if  danger  comes,  we  can  support  each  other 
in  the  day  of  trial.     We  come  to  Your  AJa- 
jesty,  who  have  given  us  liberty,  to  give  us 
unity,  that  we  may  preserve  and  perpetuate 
our  freedom  ;  and  whatsoever  Cliarter,  in  the 
wisdom  of  Your  Majesty  and  of  Your  Parlia- 
ment, you  give  us,  we  shall  loyally  obey  and 
fulfil  it  as  loni;  as  it  is  the  pleasure  oi'  Your 
Majesty  and  Your  Successors  to  maintain  the 
connection  between  Great  Britain  and  those 
Colonics."     (The  hon.  gentleman  then  sat 
down  amid  prolonged  cheers.) 


147 


Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  moved  that 
the  debate  be  adjourned  till  Thursday,  13th 
instant,  and  bo  then  the  first  Order  of  the 
Day,  after  half-past  seven. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  said  :— Mr.  Speak- 
er, we  on  this  side  had  some  doubt  lest  the 
Opposition  might  be  placed  at  a  disadvan- 
tage, by  allowing  the  spceehes  of  the  Gov- 
ernment to  go  to  the  country,  without  any 
comment  on  them.     But  if  these  five  speech- 
es, to  which  we  have  now  listened,  contain 
all  that  can  be  said  in  favor  of  this  scheme, 
we  have  no  fear  of  letting  them  go  unan- 
swered.     I  listened  to  the   speech   of  the 
Attorney  General  West  with  great  disap- 
pointment. The  cause  of  that  disappointment 
was  simple  enough.      The   lion,  gentleman 
was,  in  that  speech,  giving  the  lie  to  twenty 
years  of  his  political  life.      lie  was  offering 
to  the  cause  he  is  now  advocating  one  speech 
against  his  continuous  voice  and  vote  for 
twenty  years.  He  was  struggling,  all  through 
that  speech,  against  the  consciousness  of  the 
falseness  of  his  political  position,  and  what 
every  one  conceived  would  be  the  brightest 
effort  of  his  life  was  the  feeblest  address  he 
ever  delivered  on  any  important  question, 
during  the  twenty  years  he  has  sat  in  this 
House.     The  Attorney  General  "West  was 
followed  by  the  Attorney  General  East.     I 
know  not  how  to  characterize  the  speech  of 
that  hon.  gentleman,  further  than  to  say  that 
it  was  quite  characteristic.     It  was  perfectly 
characteristic.     I  doubt  whether  any  attor- 
ney general  who  ever  existed,  since  attorneys 
general    were   first   invented,   besides  that 
hon.  gentleman,  could  have  delivered,  on  an 
occasion  like  this,  the  speech  which  he  de- 
livered.     It  may  be  said  of  that  hon.  gen- 
tleman, as  the  poet  said  of  a  very  diff'erent 
style  of  man — one  who  was  not  an  hon.  gen- 
tleman   in    the  sense  in    which    we     are 
now  speaking — "  None  but  himself  can  be  his 
parallel."     (Laughter.)      No  attorney  gen- 
eral, I  repeat,  since  attorneys  general  were 
first  invented,  could  have  delivered  a  speech 
at  all  like  that  pronounced  by  the  Attorney 
'General  East,  in  opening  his  side  of  the  great 
question  now  submitted  to  the  consideration 
of  Parliament.     Then  followed  the  singular- 
ly able  speech  of  my  hon.  friend  the  Fin- 
ance Minister,  which  was  delivered  with  all 
that  ease  and  grace  that  mark  all  his  efforts 
in  this  House,  and  with  that  fluency  of  dic- 
tion which  we  all  adfflire,  and  which  I  am 
always  re^dy  to  acknowledge.     But  I  think 
it  will  ^iso  be  admitted  by  i,hat  hon.  gentle- 


man's   own   friends,   that  his    speech   was 
chiefly  remarkable  for  an  adroit  avoidance  of 
the  very  topics  on  which  he  was  expected, 
or  might  have  been  expected,  to  address  the 
House,  and  for  a  very  adroit  assumption  of 
those  very  things  which  he  might  have  been 
expected  to  prove.     Such,  at  least,  was  the 
impression  which  that  speech  made  upon  my 
mind.     Then  came  the  speech — the  hercu- 
lean efl'ort — of  my  hon.  friend,  the  President 
of  the  Council,  who,  I  am  sorry  to  see,  is  not 
in  his  seat,  and  with  reference,  therefore,  to 
whose  speech  I  shall  not  make  the  remarks  I 
might  have  done,  if  he  were  in  his  place.    I 
must  say,  however,  that  that   speech  was  a 
disappointing  speech.     (Cries  of  "  oh  !  oh  !" 
and  "  hear,  hear.")     I  did  expect,  from  the 
conspicuous  part  which  that  hon.  gentleman 
has   so  long  played   in  the   politics  of  the 
country — from  the   leading  part  he  has  had 
in  all  the  proceedings  which  have  conduct- 
ed to  the  project  now  before  the  House — 
that  we   should  have   had   from  him,  at  all 
events,  some  vindication  of  the  steps  which 
he  has  seen  fit  to  take — some  vindication  of 
the  principles  of  the  proposed  union,  so  con- 
trary to  all   those  principles  which  he  has 
hitherto  advocated.      I  say,  we  did  expect 
that  we  would  have   had  something  of  that 
kind  from  that  hon.  gentleman.     But,  in- 
stead of  that,  his  whole  speech  was  mainly 
an   apology  for  his  abandonment  of  all  those 
objects  for  which  he  has  contended  through 
his  political  life,  .saving   only  the  shadow  of 
representation  by  population,  to  attain  which 
shadow  he  seems  to  have  sacrificed  all  the 
material  objects,  all  the  real  objects,  for  the 
attainment  of  which   the  agitation  for  that 
change  has  proceeded  on  his  part.     Then  we 
have  had,  to-night,  the  speech  of  my  hon. 
friend,  the  Minister  of  Agriculture,  a  speech 
which  I  admit  was  one  of  very  great  inter- 
est,  as  a  historical  essay — one  which  will 
read  very  nicely  in  those  reports  which  we 
are  to  get  in  a  few  days — one  which  does 
very  great  credit  to  his  literary  research  and 
literary  taste — but  one,  which  I  do  venture 
to  say,  had  very  little  practical  bearing  on 
the  question  that  is  now  before  us.     Well,  I 
repeat,  I  am  not  afraid  that  these  speeches 
should  go  to  the  country  unanswered.     The 
country  will  see  that  these  hon.  gentlemen 
have  utterly  failed  to  establish  a  cause  for 
revolution.     They  are  proposing  revolution, 
and   it  was  incumbent  upon  them  to  estab- 
lish a  necessity  for  revolution.     All  revolu- 
tions are  unjustifiable,  except  on  the  ground 


148 


of  necessity.  These  hon.  gentlemen  were, 
therefore,  bound  to  establish  this  necessity. 
The  country  will  see  too,  that  they  have 
failed  to  explain,  to  vindicate  and  to  justify 
the  disregard  of  parliamentary  law  and  of 
parliamentary  usage  by  which  they  are  at- 
tempting to  extort  from  this  House  an  as- 
sent, not  merely  to  the  principle  of  union — 
which  would  be  perfectly  proper — but  to  all 
the  clumsy  contrivances  adopted  by  that  self- 
constituted  junta  which  sat  in  Quebec  a  few 
weeks  since,  for  giving  effect  to  that  union, 
and  to  all  those  hustering  arrangements  by 
which  the  representatives  of  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces were  induced  to  give  in  their  ad- 
hesion, and,  £0  far  as  they  could,  the  adhes- 
ion of  their  provinces  to  this  scheme.  I  say, 
they  quite  failed  to  explain  this  and  to  vindi- 
cate it.  The  country  too  will  sec  that  these 
hon.  gentlemen  have  carefully  refrained  from 
enteriDg  into  any  explanation  of  the  con- 
comitants of  this  scheme — of  the  proposed 
constitutions  of  the  local  governments  for 
instance,  which  are,  at  least,  as  important 
as  the  Constitution  of  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment. It  is  quite  manifest  that  a  union, 
even  if  generally  desirable,  might  become 
undesirable  from  the  bad,  or  inconvenient, 
or  expensive  arrangements  incident  to  the 
adoption  of  that  union.  And  that  really  ex- 
plains the  position  of  many  hon.  gentlemen 
in  this  House,  who,  like  myself,  are  not  op- 
posed to  the  Federal  principle,  but  who  find 
themselves  obliged  to  go  counter  apparently 
to  their  own  convictions,  because  they  can- 
not accept  a  union  clogged  with  such  condi- 
tions as  this  union  is.  (Hoar,  hear.)  Then 
it  might  have  been  expected  that  some  fur- 
ther, some  more  distinct,  information  might 
have  been  given  than  has  been  given,  on  the 
all-important  question  of  education,  in  res- 
pect of  which,  we  have  been  given  to  under- 
stand, that  some  final  and  permanent  system 
will  be  enacted  by  this  Legislature,  in  view 
of  the  proposed  federation  of  the  provinces. 
We  might  also  have  expected  that  some  in- 
formation would  have  been  vouchsafed  to  us 
in  respect  to  the  Intercolonial  Railway — 
whichwcarein  fact  voting  for,  without  having 
gone  into  Committee  of  the  Whole.  Without 
having  in  point  of  fact  any  information  Avith 
regard  to  it  whatever,  we  arc  voting  tho  cost 
of  that  road,  so  far  ns  this  Legislature  can 
do  80 — a  road  which  will  certainly  cost  us 
520,000,000,  and,  for  aught  wo  know,  may 
coBt  U8  840,000,000.     I  do  think  we  should 


have  had  some  information  with  respect  to 
that  road  from  those  hon.  gentlemen,  in  order 
that  the  whole  case  might  have  gone  to  the 
country.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  then,  with 
respect  to  the  defences  of  the  country — 
what  sort  of  utterances  have  we  had  on  that 
subject?  We  weretoldby  the  President  of  the 
Council  that  the  subject  was  engaging  the 
attention  of  the  Imperial  Government,  and 
he  vindicated  union,  because  defence  can  be 
better  given  by  united,  than  by  separate 
colonies.  And  what  have  we  been  told  to- 
night by  the  Minister  of  Agriculture  ?  That 
despatches  are  received  by  every  second  mail 
from  England  telling  us  that  we  are  entering 
on  a  new  era  with  reference  to  the  question 
of  defence.  What  docs  all  this  mean  ?  It 
means  that,  in  connection  with  this  union, 
we  are  to  have  entailed  upon  us  untold  ex- 
penditures lor  the  defence  of  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Ought  they  not  to  place  this 
information,  these  despatches,  before  the 
House  and  the  country,  before  any  final  and 
irrevocable  action  is  taken  with  regard  to 
the  scheme  ?  These  are  a  few,  and  but  a 
few,  of  the  leading  topics  which  constitute 
the  contents  of  this  scheme  of  Federation, 
in  respect  to  which  we  had  a  right  to  expect 
the  fullest  possible  information,  but  in  res- 
pect to  which  hon.  gentlemen  have  either 
maintained  a  studied  reserve,  or  have  spoken, 
like  the  Delphic  oracles,  in  language  which 
defies  interpretation.  (Laughter.)  I  say, 
then,  let  these  speeches  go  to  the  country, 
and  if  the  country,  by  pciusing  them,  is  not 
awakened  to  the  dangers  which  threaten 
it  from  the  adoption  of  this  crude,  immature, 
ill-considered  scheme  of  hon.  gentlemen — a 
scheme  which  threatens  to  plunge  tho  coun- 
try into  measureless  debt — into  difficulties 
and  confusions  utter  y  unknown  to  the  pres- 
ent constitutional  system — imperfect  a.s  that 
system  confessedly  is — if  the  country  is  not 
awakened  to  a  sense  of  its  danger  by  the 
perusal  of  these  speeches — I  do  not  say  I 
will  despair  of  my  country,  for  I  will  never 
despair  of  my  country — (cheers) — but  I 
anticipate  for  my  country  a  period  of  calami- 
tics,  a  period  of  tribulation,  such  as  it  has 
never  heretofore  known.  (Cheers  and  coun- 
ter cheers.) 

Tho  motion  for  the  adjournment  of  the 
debate  was  agreed  to,  and  tho  House  then 
adjourned. 


149 


LEGISLATIVE  COUNCIL. 

Friday,  February  10, 1865. 

Hon.  Ma.  MACPHERSON,   continued 
his    speech   commenced   yesterday,   as  fol- 
lows:—In  the   remarks   I    offered   to   this 
House  yesterday,  hon.  gentlemen,  I  desired 
to  state  my  reasons  for  voting  against  the 
amendment  of  my  hon.  friend  from  Welling 
ton,  and  for  the  resolutions  of  Hon.  Sir  E.  P. 
Tach£.     I  stated  that  I  believed  the  Con- 
federation scheme  was  desired  by  an  over- 
whelming majority   of   the   people    of  this 
country,  certainly  by  a  very  large  majority  of 
ray  own  constituents.     I  stated  further  that 
as   the    resolutions    had   been    before    the 
country  for  a  long  time — for  a  number  of 
months — and  as  there  was  no  evidence  what- 
ever before  us  of  their  being  disapproved 
of  as  a  whole,  or  indeed  any  one  of  them,  we 
had  good  reason  to  assume   that  the  people 
were    satisfied.      The  press  had   published 
them  in  full,  and  there  was  not  one  petition 
against  the  measure.  We  have  every  right  to 
assume  that  the  people  are  in  favor  of  Con- 
federation.   I  went  on  further,  and  said  that 
during  last  autumn,   I  was   constantly  and 
daily  bringing  the  matter  before  a  very  large 
constituency,  where  it  was   always  approved 
of.     During  a  portion  of  that  canvass,  one  of 
my  opponents  mooted  what  I  may  call  the 
smaller  Confederation — that  is,  the  Confed- 
eration of  the  two  parts  of  Canada,  and  the 
people  rejected  and  scouted  it,  while  approv- 
ing of  the  larger  one.     (Hear.)     I  went  on 
to  say,  with  respect  to  the  proposed  change 
in  the  constitution  of  this  House,  that  I  did 
not  look  upon  it  as  a  disfranchisement  of  the 
electors,  although  the  nominative  was  to  be 
substituted  for  the  elective  principle,  because 
while  the  nomination  was  not  to  be  made  by 
the  people  directly,  it  was  to  be  made  on  the 
recommendation  of  their  representatives  in 
the  other  House  of  Parliament, — in  fact  in  a 
manner  analogous  to  the  mode  adopted  for 
selecting  the  Senate  of  the  United  States — 
two   senators  being  elected  by  the  Legisla- 
ture of  each  state.      In   our   case  the  mon- 
archical   principle    was    strictly   preserved, 
and  the  Legislative  Council   was  to  be  ap- 
pointed by  the  Crown,  on  the  advice  of  the 
Government  of  the  day.     If  I  viewed  it  as  a 
measure  of  disfranchisement,  then,  looking 
at  my  obligation  to  maintain  the  franchise  of 
the  people,  I  should  have  more  hesitation  in 
voting  for  it.     An  l>op.  gentlenjan  has  said 


that  the  change,  from  the  nominative  to  the 
elective  plan,  was  made  at  the  demand  of 
the  people.  That  assertion  is  not  historical- 
ly correct;  it  is  not  correct  as  far  as  Upper 
Canada  is  concerned,  and  I  think  not  with 
respect  to  Lower  Canada  either.  There  was, 
at  one  time,  a  desire  in  Lower  Canada,  for 
the  election  of  its  legislative  councillors, 
but  the  public  men  who  carried  out  the 
change,  did  so  more  out  of  respect  to  the 
traditions  of  the  country  than  from  any 
pressure  that  existed  then.  In  Upper  Can- 
ada, I  am  quite  sure,  that  so  far  from  the 
people  desiring  it,  they  were  either  lukewarm 
or  opposed  to  it.  The  liberal  and  reform 
party  of  Upper  Canada  were  all  opposed  to 
it.  It  is  well  known  that  the  late  Hon. 
Robert  Baldwin,  so  many  years  the  leader 
of  that  party,  was  always  opposed  to  the 
change.  And  it  is  also  well  known,  that  the 
hon.  gentleman  who  is  and  has  been  for  years 
the  leader  of  that  party,  and  who  now  holds  in 
the  Government  the  position  of  the  President 
of  the  Council  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown),  opposed 
the  change  to  the  very  last  wherever  his  in- 
fluence extended,  in  the  press  which  he  con- 
trolled, and  in  his  place  in  Parliament  I 
myself  saw  him  stand  up  to  vote  against  the 
third  reading  of  the  bill.  It  cannot,  there- 
fore, be  said  that  the  alteration  was  made  at 
the  earnest  desire  of  the  people.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  went  on  further,  and  stated  that  I 
looked  on  the  measure  as  one  which  did  not 
admit  of  amendment,  since  if  we  were  to 
amend  it,  there  were  nine  other  houses 
which  might  claim  the  right  to  do  the  same, 
and  it  could,  perhaps,  never  be  carried  out. 
I  then  expressed  approval  of  the  financial 
arrangements  contemplated,  and  difi'eredfrom 
ray  hon.  friend  from  Port  Hope  (Hon.  Mr. 
Seymour),  who  said  the  revenues  of  the  pro- 
vinces in  past  times  should  have  been  made 
the  basis  on  which  they  should  bring  their 
debts  into  the  Confederation.  Inasmuch  as 
we  are  not  to  continue  separate  provinces, 
and  not  to  contribute  separate  revenues  to 
the  treasury,  but  are  to  be  subject  to  the 
same  imposts  and  to  have  one  tariff,  a 
capitation  basis  is  the  proper  one,  and  not 
that  desired  by  my  hon.  friend.  (Hear.)  I 
went  on  to  say  that  the  trifling  amount  to 
be  paid  to  New  Brunswick  by  the  Confeder- 
ation, for  ten  years,  was  necessary  under  the 
circumstances,  and  ought  not  to  be  allowed 
to  weigh  for  one  moment  against  the  benefits 
to  be  derived  from  the  proposed  arrangement. 
The  hon.  gentleman    from    Niagara   (Hon. 


150 


Mr.  Currie)  said  our  expenditure  would 
be  greatly  increased.  I  said  that  would  de- 
pend upon  ourselves,  forwc  should  continue 
to  have  the  management  of  our  own  affairs, 
and  the  economy  with  which  they  are  con- 
ducted will  depend  upon  those  who  admin- 
ister them.  If  great  improvements  are  car- 
ried out— if  the  Intercolonial  Railway  is 
built,  and  our  canals  enlarged — if  harbors  are 
constructed  on  Lake  Huron,  as  they  must  be — 
and  if  further  aid  should  bo  granted  to  ex- 
tend a  railway  to  those  harbors  — if  all  this 
is  done,  it  will  be  impossible  to  eSect  it  and 
not  increase  our  present  expenditure — but 
those  improvements  will  be  amongst  our- 
selves in  Canada, and  we  shall  enjoy  the  bene- 
fits they  will  confer ;  and  Canada,  it  should 
be  remembered,  will  have  a  just  voice  in  the 
Confederate  Legislature.  I  myself  hope 
these  great  improvements  will  be  carried 
on  in  the  west,  simultaneously  with  the 
Intercolonial  Railway,  although  this  is  the 
only  one  specifically  referred  to  in  the  resolu- 
tions— the  enlargement  of  the  canals  being 
only  spoken  of  generally.  The  Intercolonial 
Railway,  hon.  gentlemen,  must  be  construct- 
ed if  we  have  Confederation  ;  but  I  hope 
western  improvements  will  be  carried  on  at 
the  same  time.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  think, 
honorable  gentlemen,  \^o  should  be  governed 
in  our  votes  by  the  consideration  of  the  eflfect 
of  this  measure  upon  the  prosperity  of  the 
provinces.  If  it  is  to  do  us  good,  we  should 
adopt  it  without  unnecessary  delay.  AVhat 
is  it  that  we  expect  ?  Have  we  not  reason 
to  believe  that  it  will  settle  the  sectional 
difficulties  which  have  so  long  agitated  and 
distracted  the  country  ?  Will  it  not  be  the 
means  of  extending  our  influence  over  a 
large  and  most  valuable  territory  ?  Will  it 
not  open  the  way  for  us  to  two  of  the  finest 
harbors  on  the  Atlantic — St.  John  and  Hali- 
fax ?  Will  it  not  give  us  access  to  the  ocean 
at  all  seasons  of  the  year  ?  Will  it  not  open 
to  us  the  coal  fields  of  the  Lower  Provinces  ? 
Will  it  not  add  nearly  another  million  to  our 
present  population,  and  place  under  one  gov- 
ernment four  millions  of  souls?  (Hear.) 
Rut  if  the  measure  fails,  what  will  our  posi- 
tion be  ?  I  believe  that  our  position  in  Up- 
per Canada  would  be  one  of  hopelessness,  one 
bordering  on  despair — with  none  of  the 
questions  settled  that  have  beeu  agitating  us, 
and  which  have  checked  the  progress  of  the 
country;  with  representation  by  population 
not  granted,  and  no  prospect  of  it  being 
granted   for  a  long  time  to  coiuc,  while  the 


agitation  for  it  could  not  possibly  cease  until 
it  was  granted.      (Hear,  hear.)      Further- 
more, hon.  gentlemen,  you  all  know  the  in- 
fluence that  the  agreement  arrived  at  in  the 
Conference  had  upon  our  credit  in  England  ; 
that   it   had    the  eflfect  of   raising  the  price 
of  our  securities  15  to    17  per  cent.     Rut 
if  we  fail   to   agree  upon  the  measure  here 
in   Parliament,    what  will   be  the    eflfect   in 
Rritain  ?      Would    there  not  be   a  feeling 
of  disappointment — would   not  our   friends 
there  almost  despair  of  our  ever  placing  our- 
selves in  a  position  to  carry  on  our  affairs 
with   credit,  and  acting  for  ourselves  in  a 
statesmanlike  way?      Soiiio   hon.  gentlemen 
speak  of  dreading  to  take  the  responsibility 
of  a  vote  on  a  question  wiiich  is  to  make  a 
change  in  the   eonstituiion  of  this    House, 
without  consulting  the  people.     Why  !  what 
are  we  here  for  if  it  is  not  to  take  responsi- 
bility ?     The  people  send  us  here  for  that 
purpose,  to  act   as  we  think  best  upon  all 
measures  that  may  be  presented  to  us.  Rut 
under  existing  circumstances,  I  think  the 
responsibility  of  postponing  the  adoption  of 
the  scheme,  of  putting  Confederation   oflf,  is 
very  much  greater  than  the  responsibility  of 
sanctioning  it.    (Hear,  hear.)    I  cannot  help 
thinking  that  if  we  postpone  the  measure — 
and  to   adopt  any  amendment  would  have 
the  eflfect  of  postponing  it,  and  perhaps,  of 
losing  Confederation  for  ever — our  conduct 
will  be   considered  extremely   factious  and 
unpatriotic.      A  good   deal  has  been    said 
about   a   possible    dead-lock    between    this 
House  and  the  other   House,  but  there  has 
been  little  of  that  in  past  times,  and  nothing 
ofa  serious  nature.     If,  however,  the  amend- 
ment passes,  I  can  imagine  a  dead-lock  which 
might  be  extremely  prejudicial  to  this  House 
— prejudicial  to  its  influence  in  the  country ; 
nay,  almost  destructive  of  it.     Suppose  these 
resolutions  to  be  carried  in  the  other  House 
by  a  large  majority,  which  1  have  little  doubt 
will  be  the  case,  and  we  carry  an  amendment 
here — suppose   all    the  legislatures   of    the 
Lower  Provinces  adopt  the  resolutions,  and 
this  House  stands  alone  in  rejecting  them — 
do  you  believe  the  Rritish    Parliament  will 
be  turned  aside   from   what    it  believes  to 
bo    the  best  interests  of  Rritish    America 
by    the    action  of    this   House  ?        I     can 
imagine    a   dead-lock  occurring    tlion,    and 
one  in    consequence    of   which    the    opin- 
ion   of   this    House    might    be    set  aside 
and  its  vote  disregarded.     I'ntil  this  nioa- 
suro  is   carried    otit    it   !<    jnipossible    the 


151 


defences  of  the  country  can  be  properly 
attended  to,  while  all  must  admit  it  is  most 
important  they  should  be  proceeded  with. 
Is  it  patriotic,  honorable  gentlemen,  in  the 
presence  of  such  a  state  of  things,  and  in  view 
of  circumstances  which  all  thinking  men 
admit  to  be  most  serious,  is  it  wise  to  delay 
unnecessarily  the  passing  of  these  resolu- 
tions ?  Honorable  gentlemen  may  feel  that 
they  do  not  meet  the  views  of  every  one  in 
all  particulars,  but  they  must  see  the  benefi- 
cial tendency  of  the  whole,  and  they  cannot 
fail  to  see  the  importance  of  getting  them 
passed  without  delay,  for  if  they  are  to 
receive  the  sanction  of  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment at  its  next  session,  there  is  no  time  to 
be  lost.  (Hear,  hear.)  One  honorable 
gentleman  has  said  the  people  are  not 
satisfied  with  the  measure.  I  believe 
they  are  perfectly  satisfied.  It  has  been 
before  them  for  a  long  time,  and  they  are 
possessed  of  sufiicieut  intelligence  to  have 
made  their  disapprobation  known  if  it  was 
felt.  But,  to  shew  the  feeling  in  reference 
to  the  matter,  I  will  read  two  or  three  extracts 
from  a  report  which  I  received  this  morning 
of  the  proceedings  of  the  Counties  Council 
of  York  and  Peel.  These  counties  send  four 
representatives  to  the  other  House  of  Parlia- 
ment, and  they  comprise  portions  of  three  of 
the  divisions  represented  in  this  Chamber — 
Midland,  Peel  and  York.  Mr.  Graham,  a 
member  of  the  council,  moved  that  a  select 
committee  be  appointed  to  draft  a  petition  to 
the  Legislature  as  to  the  advisability  of  the 
people  being  consulted  before  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  should  be  carried  into  efi"ect. 
I  will  now  read  from  the  report : — 

Mr.  Graham,  Vaughan,  argued  that  be  did  not 
introduce  the  resolution  with  any  such  intention, 
for  he  did  not  regard  it  as  political.  The  Admin- 
istration was  composed  of  men  of  different  shades 
of  politics,  and  hence  the  question  was  not  one  of 
any  particular  party.  The  present  Parliament 
was  not  elected  to  consider  this  question,  and 
should  theiefore  not  pronounce  on  the  scheme 
without  first  consulting  the  people.  On  questions 
of  far  less  interest  they  had  gone  lo  the  country, 
and  he  thought  they  should  on  this,  as  it  involved 
large  interests,  and  was  of  the  greatest  importance. 
The  Attorney  GeneraJ  had  said,  in  his  place  in 
Parliament,  that  the  scheme  must  be  adopted 
without  any  amendments,  but  he  (Mr.  GR.iHAM) 
thought  it  needed  amendment  so  far  as  the  people 
of  Up;"er  Canada  were  concerned, 

Mr.  Hartley  said  the  Avhole  scheme  was  now 
before  the  country,  and  the  people  who  were  in- 
terested in  the  matter  were  aware  of  its  provisions. 
In  the  very  riding  represented  in  part  by  the  very 


mover  of  the  resolution,  the  people  gave  expres- 
sion in  favor  of  Confederation  by  the  election  of 
the  Hon.  W.  P.  Howlaxd  ;  and  in  fact  at  every 
election  held  since  the  scheme  was  proposed,  the 
candidates  elected  have  declared  in  its  favor. 
He  considered  the  Attorney  General  perfectly 
right  in  declaring  that  the  resolutions  must  pass 
without  amendment.  The  measure,  as  it  stood, 
had  received  the  sanction  of  all  the  delegates 
repre?enting. 

Mr.  Graham,  Gore,  stated  that  some  of  the 
members  looked  upon  the  resolution  as  being  of  a 
political  character.  However,  be  that  as  it  may, 
the  resolution  was  now  before  the  chair,  and  had 
to  be  disposed  of.  He  thought  the  question  of 
Confederation  was  in  the  hands  of  the  best  judges, 
and  they  would  decide  whether  it  would  be  advan- 
tageous to  Canada  or  not.  These  representatives 
of  the  people  were  all  well  posted  up  in  the  re- 
sources of  the  provinces,  and  how  such  could  be 
best  developed,  and  therefore  he  thought  the 
question  should  be  left  with  them  for  decision. 
As  to  an  appeal  to  the  people,  he  could  not  see 
what  good  results  would  flow  from  it.  The  reso- 
lutions passed  at  the  Quebec  Conference  on  Con- 
federation were  before  the  people  and  their  repre- 
sentatives, and  it  is  for  the  latter  to  decide  for  or 
against  them  ;  and  they  are  undoubtedly  in  a 
good  position  to  form  correct  conclusions  concern- 
ing them.  He  could  not  see  what  reasons  the 
statesmen  of  Canada  would  have  in  sacrificing  the 
interests  of  oui  country.  They  all  had  a  common 
interest  with  ourselves,  and  hence  would  not  be 
likely  to  do  anything  detrimental  to  the  best  in- 
terests of  Canada  As  regarded  the  submitting 
of  the  question  to  the  people,  Mr.  Graham  thought 
that  ample  time  had  been  given  the  representatives 
during  the  recess,  to  ascertain  the  feelings  of  the 
people  on  the  subject,  and  that,  therefore,  they 
went  to  Quebec  perfectly  prepared  to  deal  with 
the  question  without  putting  the  country  to  the 
expense  of  a  general  election.  An  appeal  to  the 
people  would  be  a  useless  expenditure,  and, 
therefore,  he  would  oppose  the  resolution. 

On  being  put  to  the  council,  the  motion  vvns 
lost  on  the  vote  of  G  to  25. 

This,  honorable  gentlemen_,  is  the  opinion 
of  the  Municipal  Council  of  York  and  Peel, 
and  I  hope  this  House  will  do  as  that  coun- 
cil desire,  and  decide  upon  the  measure 
without  resorting  to  any  course  that  can  pro- 
duce any  delay  whatever.  (Hear,  hear.) 
So  important  is  this  scheme  considered  in 
England,  as  well  as  in  our  own  country,  that 
I  believe  the  vote  taken  on  it  will  be  recfarded 
as  a  test  of  our  desire  to  remain  in  connection 
with  the  British  Empire,  to  maintain  our 
allegiance  to  our  beloved  Sovereign,  or  of 
our  indifi"erence  to  the  prospect  of  being 
merged  into  another  country.  This  might  be 
an  unjust  conclusion  to  arrive  at,  but  we 
have  recent  examples  in  our  own  history  of 


152 


the  way  such  conclusions  are  formed  abroad. 
I  remember  a  vote  which  was  misconstrued, 
much  to  the  prejudice  of  this  country — I 
refer  to  that  on  the  Militia  Bill  rejected  in 
1862.  There  is  no  doubt  the  rejection  of 
that  bill  gave  rise  to  the  opinion  which  pre- 
vails in  England — and  you  cannot  convince 
the  people  there  to  the  contrary — that  Cana- 
dians are  unwilling  to  defend  themselves. 
Nothing  could  be  more  unjust  to  our  people 
than  to  entertain  such  an  idea,  nothing 
more  unjust  even  to  the  majority  who  voted 
against  that  bill ;  but  still  that  was  the  con- 
viction arrived  at,  which  it  took  a  long  time 
to  modify,  and  which  is  not  entirely  removed 
to  this  day.  I  believe  that  vote  has  cost  the 
country  a  very  large  sum  of  money  in  various 
ways.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  conclusion,  let  me 
just  say  that  wo  cannot  remain  any  longer  as 
we  are ;  we  have  to  advance  in  some  direc- 
tion, and  I  believe  we  are  going  in  the  right 
direction  when  we  proceed  towards  Confed- 
eration. I  am  very  much  disposed  to  agree 
with  the  honorable  and  gallant  Premier,  that 
we  are  on  the  top  of  an  inclined  plane,  and 
that  if  we  do  not  adopt  Confederation,  we 
shall  very  likely  find  ourselves  descending  it 
against  our  wish,  and  plunged  into^  a  mal- 
scrom  of  debt,  democracy  and  demagogism. 
rHear  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BOULTON  said  he  rejoiced  to 
find,  in  the  accession  to  the  House  of  the  hon- 
orable member  who  had  just  spoken,  a  gentle- 
man so  well  calculated  to  sustain  its  credit, 
and  to  assist  by  his  enlightened  and  thoroughly 
patriotic  views  in  the  disposal  of  the  m;iny 
and  important  questions  with  which  it  had  to 
deal,  in  a  manner  worthy  of  the  House  and 
beneficial  to  the  country.  With  respect  to  the 
measure  in  debate,  he  must  state  he  wa.*?  de- 
lighted at  the  principles  it  embodied.  He 
was  strongly  in  its  favor,  and  so  far  from  re- 
garding it  as  imperilling  the  interests  of  the 
province,  thought  it  eminently  adapted  to 
advance  its  prosperity  and  welfare.  He  was 
not  a  young  man,  having  numbered  more  than 
half  a  century  of  years,  during  the  greater 
part  of  which  period  he  had  filled  a  seat  in 
either  one  or  the  other  of  the  Houses  of  Par- 
liament, but  he  had  never  yet  known  a  mea- 
sure of  equal  importance  brought  under  dis- 
cussion. He  might  possibly  not  live  to  see  it 
carried,  but  hoped  and  expected  he  would,  and 
if  it  were,  he  had  no  doubt  it  would  realize 
all  the  anticipations  of  its  framers,  and  issue 
in  the  greatest  advantages  not  to  the  colonies 
alone,  but  to  the  Mother  Country  likewise. 
During  tho  time  h*  had  boon  in  Parliaraotik  h« 


could  safely  say  he  had  been  guided  by  an 
earnest  purpose  to  vote  rightly,  but  yet  he  had 
two  or  three  votes  to  regret,  and  that  which 
he  most  regretted,  was  the  one  he  gave  against 
the  union  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  In 
this  he  felt  now,  as  he  had  felt  before,  that  he 
was  wrong,  but  his  consolation  was  that  he 
had  acted  independently  and  conscientiously, 
not  allowing  himself  to  swerve  from  what  he 
regarded  as  his  duty  even  by  the  earnest  en- 
treaties of  one  of  his  most  valued  friends,  the 
then  Attorney  General  for  Upper  Canada,  who 
had  taken  a  diflferent  view  of  the  ca.se.  He 
now  recognized  the  wisdom  of  the  measure, 
and  was  glad  his  fears  had  been  disappointed, 
and  that  gi-eat  benefits  had  resulted  from  it  to 
both  sections.  He  viewed  the  union  now  pro- 
posed as  fraught  with  the  largest  advantiiges 
to  all  the  British  North  American  Provinces, 
and  believed  his  anticipations  would  be  rea- 
lised. He  had  often  erossed  the  Atlantic  and 
travelled  extensively  in  England  and  the  United 
States,  but  it  was  not  until  last  summer,  as  he 
acknowledged  with  shame,  that  he  had  paid  a 
visit  to  the  Lower  Provinces,  now  proposed  to 
be  united  with  Canada.  This  icjuorance  of  .sister 
colonies  so  near  to  our  own  country,  he  thought, 
was  not  creditable  to  any  legislator,  and  he 
hoped  other  honorable  members  would  feel  it 
their  duty  to  acquire  for  themselves  informa- 
tion which  was  so  necessary  to  their  position. 
Well,  he  had  been  there  last  summer,  and  his 
opinions  respecting  those  countries  had  imme- 
diately undergone  a  very  sensible  change.  He 
had  not  expected  to  see  such  a  beautiful  city 
as  St.  John,  N.  B.,  or  such  a  place  as  Hali- 
fax. ■  He  had  conceived  the  people  as  poor 
and  struggling  for  existence,  but  was  delighted 
to  find  merchants  doing  a  great  business,  and 
exhibiting  as  high  a  standing  and  as  much 
enterprise  as  any  in  Canada.  Then,  these 
provinces  were  distinguished  by  the  most  do- 
voted  attachment  to  tlie  British  Empire  and 
loyalty  to  the  British  Crown,  sentiments  which 
he  was  unfeignedly  delighted  to  observe.  He 
hoped  these  sentiments  would  continue  to  pre- 
vail and  even  be  strengthened  by  the  Confedera- 
tion now  contemplated.  (Hear,  hear.)  When 
he  represented  a  constituency  in  Upper  Can- 
ada and  had  to  seek  reelection,  he  had  always 
hung  out  his  flag  with  ''  British  supremacy  " 
inscribed  thereon  —  (hoar,  hear.)  —  and  he 
hoped  that  the  sentiment  would  continue  to 
be  cherLshed  in  the  country  so  long  as  he 
lived.  As  to  the  allegations  of  some  honorable 
members  that  tho  people  were  ignorant  as  to 
the  merits  of  the  measure  proposed,  ho  could 
say  that,  so  far  ns  the  locality  from  which  h 


153 


came  was  concerned,  it  was  a  serious  error.  It 
had  engaged  the  attention  of  the  people  more 
or  less  for  many  years,  and  especially  of  late. 
After  alludins;  to  the  favorable  consideration 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces  by  many  distinguished 
British  statesmen,  such  as  the  late  Earl  of 
Durham  and  the  late  Sir  Wilmot  Horton, 
formerly  Under  Secretary  of  State,  many 
years  ago,  the  hon.  gentleman  spoke  of  the 
opinion  of  a  particular  friend  of  his  own,  a 
distinguished  member  of  the  other  House,  Mr. 
Morris,  son  of  the  late  Hon.  Wii.  Morris, 
with  whom  he  (Honorable  Mr.  Boulton)  had 
had  the  pleasure  of  acting  for  many  years  in 
the  House  of  Assembly  of  Upper  Canada. 
Mr.  Morris,  the  present  member  for  South 
Lanark,  in  a  pamphlet  published  by  him,  in 
1858,  expressed  himself  clearly  and  distinctly 
in  favor  of  the  union  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces,  and  in  that  pamphlet 
quoted  the  views  of  the  present  American 
Secretary  of  fttate,  Mr.  Seward,  and  which  he 
(Hon.  Mr.  Boulton)  read  as  follows.  Mr. 
Morris  introduces  those  views  thus  : — 

That  day  may  be  and  I  trust  is  far  distant,  but 
sure  I  am  that  whatever,  in  the  upheavings  of  the 
old  world  and  the  restless  whirl  of  events  may  be- 
tide, yet  the  connection  between  our  country  and 
the  parent  state  will  not  be  rudely  severed,  but 
fostered  by  the  power  and  might  of  Britain,  and, 
rising  in  strength  and  power,  thousands  of  strong 
bauds  and  bold  hearts  within  our  borders  will 
cherish  towards  Britain  sentiments  of  warm  af- 
fection and  attached  loyalty,  and  will  be  ready,  if 
need  be,  in  the  contests  for  liberty  that  may 
arise,  to  stand  side  by  side  in  the  foremost  rank 
with  the  armies  of  Britain. 

There  is,  indeed,  vast  room  for  speculation  as 
to  the  future  of  this  great  British  Colonial  Em- 
pire, and  its  consideration  has  engrossed  and  is 
engrossing  the  energies  of  many  minds.  Amongst 
others,  hear  what  Senator  Seward  thinks  of  us  : 
*'  Hitherto,  in  common  with  most  of  my  country- 
men, as  I  suppose,  I  have  thought  Canada,  or,  to 
speak  more  accurately,  British  America,  to  be  a 
mere  strip  lying  north  of  the  United  States,  easily 
detachable  from  the  parent  state,  but  incapable 
of  sustaining  itself,  and  therefore  ultimately,  nay 
right  soon,  to  be  taken  on  by  the  Federal  union 
without  materially  changing  or  aflfecting  its  own 
condition  or  development.  I  have  dropped  the 
opinion  as  a  national  conceit.  I  see  in  British 
North  America,  stretching  as  it  does  across  the 
!  continent  from  the  shores  of  Labrador  and  New 
foundland  to  the  Pacific,  and  occupying  a  consid- 
erable belt  of  the  temperate  zone,  traversed 
equally  with  the  United  States  by  the  lakes,  and 
enjoying  the  magnificent  shores  of  the  St.  Law- 
rence, with  its  thousands  of  islands  in  the  river 
and  gulf,  a  region  grand  enough  for  the  seat  of  a 
great  empire." 
21 


Secretary  Seward  (who  was  known  to  be 
one  of  the  principal  men  in  the  American 
Government)  once  regarded  this  country  as  a 
poor  one,  but  it  was  clear  he  no  longer  thought 
so,  but  had  formed  a  very  high  opinion  of  our 
resources  and  capabilities.  There  was  no 
doubt  that  Canada  was  a  great  country  and 
destined  to  be  much  greater  still,  and  he  held 
that  if  we  were  true  to  ourselves  we  could  well 
sustain  ourselves,  especially  as  in  the  effort 
(if  effort  ever  were  needed)  we  were  sure  to 
enlist  the  sympathies,  co-operation  and  sup- 
port of  the  Empire.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then 
he  was  satisfied  that  as  the  project  of  Confed- 
eration was  favorably  received  at  home,  as 
calculated  to  strengthen  our  position,  we  might 
expect  all  the  aid  that  we  needed.  He  re- 
gretted not  being  prepared  to  support  his 
views  by  statistical  statements,  but  other  hon- 
orable members  who  were  much  more  compe- 
tent than  himself,  had  done  so,  and  no  doubt 
others  would  follow.  Of  this,  however,  he  was 
convinced,  that  we  would  lose  nothing  by  the 
union,  but  would  considerably  improve  our  re- 
venue. The  Lower  Provinces  possessed  ad<« 
vantages  which  we  had  not,  and  among  them 
their  coal  and  their  gold  fields  might  be  re- 
garded as  of  great  value.  We  would  soon 
require  a  large  and  constant  supply  of  coal,  a 
mineral  which,  so  far,  had  not  been  found  in 
Canada.  It  was  really  melancholy  that  there 
should  have  been  so  little  commercial  inter- 
course between  us  and  those  provinces.  They 
were  constantly  needing  large  supplies  of  pro- 
visions, which  we  had  to  sell,  and  it  was  a 
pity  that  the  money  expended  in  procuring 
them  was  not  paid  to  us.  He  hoped  that 
there  would  be  a  great  revolution  in  the  state 
of  things  before  long,  and  that  we  would  pro- 
fit largely  by  it.  In  every  point  of  view,  he 
conceived  this  union  to  be  most  desirable, 
though  he  must  confess  he  would  not  desire 
to  see  it  carried  out  if  he  thought  there  was 
the  remotest  probability  of  its  leading  to  a 
separation  from  the  Empire.  (Hear.)  The 
Mother  Country  had  done  much  for  us ;  mis- 
takes had  arisen,  but,  on  the  whole,  we  had 
been  most  kindly  and  generously  treated  by 
her  ;  we  had  been  materially  assisted  by  loans 
on  the  guarantee  of  the  Imperial  Government, 
and  that  very  fact  had  greatly  enhanced  our 
credit.  In  this  way  it  was  that  our  great  and 
valuable  public  works  had  been  constructed. 
It  had  often  been  a  matter  of  surprise  to  him 
that  we  had  shown  so  little  care  and  anxiety 
with  regard  to  our  own  defence,  but  the  time 
had  now  come  when  we  would  be  obliged  to 
do  something  for  ourselves  in  that  direction. 


154 


The  people  of  England  very  truly  said  we  had 
now  grown  up  so  as  to  be  able,  to  some  ex- 
tent at  least,  to  protect  ourselves,  and  while 
they  did  not  expect  us  to  maintain  the  whole 
struggle  unaided,  they  yet  demanded  that  we  . 
should  do  our  part.     This  done,  according  to 
the  measure  of  our  ability,  we  would  have 
nothing  to  fear,  and  the  union  would  enable 
us    to    do   better  than  we  otherwise  could. 
There  might  still  be  a  feeling  among  a  few  of 
our    people   in   favor  of  annexation  to  the 
United  States,  but  it  was  limited  to  a  very 
small    number  indeed,  if  it  existed  at    all. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Some  years  back  he  thought 
the  feeling  prevailed  to  some  extent,  but  the 
unhappy  war  in  the  adjoining  country  had 
led  to  a  very  great  change   in  this  respect. 
He  deplored  that  dreadful  war,  and  would 
deprecate  the  possibility  of  a  rupture  of  our 
present  peaceful  relations  with  that  country. 
He   hoped  we  would  still    continue  to  live 
upon     amicable    terms,    and   was    convinced 
that  if  war  did  arise,  it  would  not  be  pro- 
voked by  us.      They  were   a  great   and   a 
powerful  people,  and  he  hoped  they  wou^ld  con- 
tinue in  the  future  to  treat  us  kindly  as  they 
had  done  in  the  past ;   but  it  could  not  be 
denied  that  of  late  they  had  shewn  a  different 
disposition.     They  had  passed  a  measure  to 
repeal  the  Reciprocity  Treaty,  which  had  been 
of  so  much  advantage  to  the  two  countries  ; 
a  repeal  which,  two  or  three  years  ago,  they 
had  no  purpose  whatever  to  bring  about ;  but 
he  thought  a  change  might  yet  take  place,  and 
that  after  aU  the  treaty  would  not  be  abolished. 
At  the  same  time,  if  it  were  abolished,  he  did 
not  think  we  would  be  ruined  altogether,  but 
expected  that  intercourse  with  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces would,  in  a  great  degree,  make  up  the 
loss.     It  might  be,   however,  that  we  could 
yet  pass  through  the  States,  but  if  not,  and 
we   were  restricted  to  our  own   channels  of 
communication,  we  must  do  the  best  we  can. 
He  trusted  the  amendment  of  the  honorable 
member  for  Sherbrooke  (Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn; 
would  be  voted  down,  and  that  the  measure  as 
it  was  woald  pas'j  in  its  integrity.     The  Con- 
stitution of  the  Federal  Legislature  had  been 
adopted  in  a  council  of  our  leading  politicians, 
some  of  whom  had  all  along  been  opposed  to 
elective    legislative   councils,  amongst  others, 
the  Honorable  President  of  tlie  Council,  (Hon. 
George  Brow.v).     And  the  people,  he  verily 
believed,    did  not  wish   to  see   the  principle 
prevail.     He  had  no  doubt  the  Crown  would 
make  wise  selections  as  it  liad  generally  done 
before,  and  though  mistakes  might  in  some 
cases  have  been  made,  for  his  part  ho  was  per- 


fectly willing  to  trust  it.  He  was  willing  to 
give  the  people  all  the  power  they  could 
reasonably  ask,  but  it  was  a  fact  that  the  power 
granted  had  in  many  instances  been  abused. 
Many  municipalities  have  been  nearly  ruined. 
They  contracted  loans,  and  instead  of  applying 
the  money  in  a  way  to  lom^ard  the  public 
weal,  a  good  deal  of  it  had  gone  into  the 
pockets  of  the  borrowers.  (Hear,  hear.)  He 
desired  to  prevent  a  recurrence  of  such  things. 
When  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund  Bill  was 
passed,  great  advantages  had  been  expected 
from  it,  and  great  improvements  had  been 
projected,  some  of  which,  he  was  free  to  say, 
had  been  carried  out,  but  some  of  the  munici- 
palities had  misapplied  and  wasted  the  money, 
and  now  they  were  asking  the  Government 
for  delay  to  enable  them  to  pay  the  interest. 
In  making  these  remarks  he  had  no  intention 
of  saying  aught  that  could  be  disagreeable, 
and  if'  he  had  done  so  he  prayed  it  might  be 
overlooked.  He  had  taken  an  active  part  in 
the  legislature,  especially  in  the<>ther  branch, 
in  years  gone  by,  and  had  always  acted  in- 
dependently, and  he  thought  it  was  the  duty 
of  public  men  to  follow  the  dictates  of  their 
own  convictions  in  preference  to  the.  solicita- 
tions of  friends.  Having  done  so  in  the  past, 
he  would  try  to  do  so  in  the  future.  He  would 
close  by  expressing  the  hope  that  the  resolu- 
tions would  pass  by  a  large  majority,  as  he  had 
no  doubt  they  would.    (Cheers.) 

Hon.  3Ir.  AIKINS  said : — I  do  not  believe, 
honorable  gentlemen,  that  what  occurred  in 
the  Counties  Council  of  York  and  Peel,  to 
which  the  honorable  member  for  the  Sauaeen 
Division  referred,  can  bear  the  interpretation 
that  honorable  gentleman  placed  upon  it. 
The  honorable  member  stated  that  a  large 
majority  in  that  council  had  declared  them- 
selves unfavorable  to  an  appeal  to  the  people 
on  the  subject  now  before  the  House — the 
Confederation  of  the  Provinces.  Now,  I  am 
personally  acquainted  with  most  of  the  mem- 
bers of  that  body,  and  think  a  fuller  reading 
of  the  proceedings  to  which  the  honorable 
member  referred  will  place  the  matter  in  a 
different  light — 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— I  read  the 
whole  of  the  report. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— Well,  I  shall  read 
it  for  myself  and  draw  my  own  conclusions. 
[Here  the  honorable  gentleman  read  the  re- 
port again,  remarking  that  there  was  nothing 
in  the  speeches  of  any  uf  the  members  of  the 
Counties  Council  to  show  that  they  were  op- 
posed to  an  appeal  to  the  people,  and  then 
proceeded]  ; —    Tho  members  of  the  C<  ti;.tie8 


155 


Council  were  not  elected  on  political  grounds, 
but  to  administer  the  affairs  of  the  munici- 
pality.    Any  expression  of  opinion  that  they 
may  offer  on  political  subjects  is  therefore  but 
the  expression  of  their  own  individual  opinions, 
and  however  much  it  may  be  entitled  to  respect 
from  the  character  of  the  gentlemen  composing 
the  council,  it  can  in  no  way  be  regarded  as 
the  expression  of  their  constituents'  wishes  on 
the  subject.     But  I  contend,  moreover,  that 
the  vote  in  the  council  was  not  even  an  ex- 
pression of  opinion  on  the  part  of  the  mem- 
bers ;  for  we  find  from  the  report  that  several 
members  opposed  the  motion  for  an  appeal  to 
the  people,  simply  on  the  ground  that   the 
question  was  one  that  ought  not  to  have  been 
brought  before  them,  it  being  of  a  purely  poli- 
tical character,  and  they  rejected  it  without 
expressing  any  opinion  upon  its  real  merits. 
Then,  combined  with  them  were  the  gentlemen 
who  really  oppose  the  appeal  to  the  people, 
and  of  these  two  classes  was  the  majority  com- 
posed, of  which  the  honorable  gentlemen  spoke 
so  exultingly.    (Hear,  hear.)   But  apart  from 
the   expression   of  opinion    of  the    Counties 
Council  referred  to,  in  whatever  light  it  may 
be  regarded,  I  object  to  the  resolutions  being- 
submitted  to   Parliament  and  pressed  upon 
the  consideration  of  this  House  in  the  same 
way  as  the  Address  in  reply  to  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne.     They  are  said  to  be  passed 
or  rejected   as   a  whole,    without   alteration 
or  amendment,  just   as  if  the   Government 
were  bound  to  stand  or  fall  by  the  decision. 
The   Government,   it  appears,    has    pledged 
itself    to  the    other    governments    to  abide 
by  these   resolutions,    and    in   that  case   it 
should  have  been  a  condition  that  they  should 
stand  or  fall  with   them.     Ministers  are  op- 
posed further  to  any  expression  of  opinion  on 
the  contents  of  these  resolutions,   other  than 
what  may  be  stated  in  the  speeches  of  honor- 
able   members;    the    resolutions    cannot  be 
changed,  modified  or  amended  in  any  particu- 
lar, and  yet  the  chambers  are  asked  to  con- 
sider them  !     What  is  the  use  of  considering 
them  if  we  cannot  come  to  our  own  conclueions 
and  give  them  effect  in  the  shape  of  amend- 
ments ?     I  stand  here  as  the  representative 
of,  if  not  one  of  the  largest,  at  least  one  of 
the  most  intelligent  constituencies  in  Upper 
Canada,  and  I  have  no  hesitation  in  saying 
the  people  are  generally  in  favor  of  the  princi- 
ple of  the  resolutions ;  in  other  words,  of  a 
Confederation  of  Canada  and  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, but  I  do  not  believe  they  are  in  favor 
of  all  the  details  of  the  project.     The  Honor- 
able Premier,  in  moving  the  resolutions,  said 


they  would  be  productive  of  two  special  ad- 
vantages   to    Canada; — they    would   give    us 
strength  and  durability,  and  at  the  same  time 
settle  the  difficulties  under  which  the  province 
has  labored  for  some  years.     That  honorable 
member  also  stated  that  if  this  union  is  not 
accomplished  there  will  be  a  danger  of  our 
being    forced   by  violence    into   the   United 
States  ;  that,  if  not  forced  therein  by  violence, 
we  will  insensibly  slide  thither ;  and  that  we 
are   upon  an  inclined   plane   which    must  of 
necessity  land  us  there,  and  whether  by  vio- 
lence or  by  sliding,  we  must  reach  that  result. 
(Hear,  hear.)     If  the  Honorable  Premier  had 
shown  that  the  proposed  union  would  in  reality 
give  us  strength,  and  place  us  in  a  position  to 
improve  our  defences,  then  I  would  admit  he 
had   made   a  good  case.     I  have   anxiously 
waited  to  hear  his  reasons  and  explanations, 
for  I  wanted  better  reasons  for  adopting  the 
resolutions  than  any  I  was  acquainted  with. 
I  am  anxious  to  have  them  carefully  analyzed 
and  scrutinized,  and  desire  that  they  may  be 
found   in   the   interest  of  Canada.      If  the 
Government,   in   bringing    them   down,   had 
stated  that  after  a  thorough  canvass  and  ex- 
amination, if  deemed  desirable,   they   might 
be  amended  in  some  particulars,  I  would  have 
accepted  the  declaration  with  satisfaction  and 
hope  ;  but  no,  though  allowed  to  debate  them, 
we  cannot  proceed  any   further.     They  are 
submitted,   as  I  have   already   said,   like   an 
opening  Speech  from  the  Throne,  an  amend- 
ment to  which  is  treated  as  a  motion  of  want 
of  confidence,  and  I  can  see  no  great  use  in 
discussing  them   at  all.     I  desire,   however, 
prior  to  the  taking  of  the  vote,  to  know  how 
much    the   Intercolonial  Railway    will   cost. 
Only  a  short  time  ago  public  opinion  in  Upper 
Canada  was  adverse  to  this  enterprise,  but  if 
new   light   has   dawned   upon  the   subject,  I 
would  be  glad  to  share  in  it.     I  would  like  to 
know  also  what  the  route  will  be,  and  how 
many  millions  it  will  cost ;  and  if  it  should  be 
shown   that  its  construction  will   be   a  real 
advantage  to  the  country,  I  will  be  prepared 
to  go  for  it.     There  are  other  points  upon 
which  I  desire  information,  and  one  is  as  to 
the  proportion  of  the  debt  which  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  will  be  called  upon  respectively 
to  bear.     If  the  sixty-two  and  a-half  millions 
of  debt  the  Confederation  is  to  assume  is  to 
be   divided   according  to  the   extent  of  the 
two  populations,  will  Lower  Canada,  over  and 
above  its  share,  assume  the  amount  paid  for 
the  abolition  of  the  Seigniorial  Tenure  ?  These 
questions,  in  my  opinion,  need  anewerg  before 
this  scheme  is  carried. 


156 


Hon.  Mr.  CAJVIPBELL— There  is  no 
disposition  on  the  part  of  the  Government  to 
withhold  any  information  the  House  may- 
desire  to  have; — on  the  contrary,  they  are 
anxious  to  afford  all  in  their  power, — but  the 
points  suggested  by  the  honorable  member  are 
not  yet  before  the  House  for  discussion.  As 
to  the  Seigniorial  Tenure  debt  it  will  be 
assumed  entirely  by  Lower  Canada.  Then 
as  to  the  five  millions  reserved  for  a  certain 
part  of  the  debt,  the  matter  will  be  disposed 
of  by  a  fair  division  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada ;  and  I  beg  to  add  that  Parliament 
will  have  the  opportunity  of  fully  considering 
the  arrangement  which  the  Government  may 
propose  for  that  division.  An  affirmative 
proposition  will  be  laid  before  the  House,  upon 
which  members  will  of  course  have  the  oppor- 
tunity of  pronouncing. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — I  am  very  much 
pleased,  indeed,  to  hear  the  statement  of  the 
Honorable  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands ; 
but  I  must  say  I  am  at  a  loss  to  perceive  how 
we  shall  have  an  opportunity  of  considering 
any  of  these  resolutions  if  we  now  affirm  the 
substantive  proposition. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  opportunity 
wUl  be  afforded  when  these  five  millions  of 
debt  come  to  be  distributed  between  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada,  and  when  bills  or  propo- 
sitions are  brought  before  Parliament  for  that 
purpose.  The  intention  of  the  Government 
is  to  offer  propositions  which  it  considers  fair 
to  both  sections  of  the  country,  and  it  will  be 
in  the  power  of  Parliament,  of  course,  to 
speak  and  decide  in  regard  to  the  scheme. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — I  am  quite  willing 
to  give  the  Government  credit  for  sincerity  on 
this  question,  but  before  I  am  called  upon  to 
vote  for  Confederation,  I  would  like  to  know, 
and  I  am  sure  this  House  would  like  to  know, 
not  only  bow  much  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
is  to  cost,  but  how  this  amount  of  debt  is  to 
be  diffused  or  distributed  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  It  does  appear  to  me  very 
important  that  we  should  have  all  these  ex- 
planations prior  to  being  called  upon  to  vote 
these  resolutions. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Ah  to  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway,  the  honorable  gentleman 
will  see  that  it  is  a  matter  for  the  Government 
of  the  Confederation  to  deal  with.  The  only 
question  for  this  House  to  consider  is  as  to 
how  the  five  millions  of  debt  is  to  be  distribu- 
ted between  the  two  hections,  and  as  to  that 
every  member  will  have  an  opportunity  of 
assenting  to  or  difloring  i'roni  the  proposition 
of  the  Government.    The  question  of  the  rail- 


way stands  on  an  entirely  different  footing, 
being  for  the  consideration  o  nly  of  the  Gene- 
ral Legislature  of  the  union. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  am  quite  well 
aware  that  the  Intercolonial  Railway  is  to  be 
constructed  by  the  General  Government,  but 
I  would  like  to  know  now  how  much  it  is  to 
cost.  It  does  appear  to  me  that  this  is  a  very 
important  question,  and  one  that  lies  at  the 
root  of  the  whole  matter  in  the  minds  of  many 
honorable  gentlemen.  I  know  that  it  affects 
me  very  much.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  with 
regard  to  the  Constitution  of  this  Chamber, 
the  honorable  gentleman  who  has  just  taken 
his  seat  (Hon.  Mr.  Boulton),  and  who 
comes  from  Cobourg,  has  indulged  in  a  gene- 
ral attack  upon  the  elective  system,  because, 
forsooth,  several  municipalities  throughout  the 
country  have  borrowed  largely  from  the  Loan 
Fund,  and  because  the  money  they  so  borrowed 
has  not  been  properly  invested.  He  argues 
from  this  that  the  principle  of  election  by  the 
people  should  be  done  away  w^|,h  in  this 
House.  It  does  appear  strange  that  any  hon. 
gentlemen  should  take  the  narrow  and  contract- 
ed ground  that  this  Chamber  should  be  appointr 
ed  by  the  Crown,  because  certain  loans  have  not 
been  properly  distributed  by  municipal  bodies 
— especially  strange  that  an  honorable  gentle- 
man should  take  it  who  represents  a  munici- 
pality that  is  very  heavily  in  arrears  to  the 
Loan  Fund. 

Hon.  Mr.  BOULTON— I  did  not  allude 
to  the  town  of  Cobourg  at  all,  but  to  other 
municipalities,  where  the  councils  squandered 
the  money  borrowed  from  the  Loan  Fund  and 
put  large  sums  of  it  into  their  own  pockets. 
Cobourg  expended  the  money  properly  in  con- 
nection with  a  great  public  work,  and  acted 
honestly,  uprightly  and  properly  in  the  mat- 
ter. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— "Well,  I  do  not  see 
why  a  good  thing  should  be  put  past  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  himself;  and  when  he  in- 
dulges in  an  attack  upon  the  elective  system, 
because  certain  municipalities  have  lailed  to 
meet  their  obligations,  I  do  not  see  why  I 
should  not  point  out  that  Cobourg  is  a  de- 
faulter to  a  large  amount.  Tlie  hontirable 
member  from  the  Sauijeen  Division  ar'j:ue8 
that  the  appointment  of  members  oC  this 
House  by  the  Crown  is  not  a  disfranchise- 
ment of  the  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— The  honor- 
able gentleman  is  mistaken.  What  I  said  was 
that,  inasmuch  as  the  appointments  are  to  be 
made  in  the  way  that  h;us  been  described — 
that  is,  on  the  nomination  of  gentleman  re- 


157 


presenting  the  people  in  the  other  House — the 
change  does  not  amount  to  a  disfranchisement. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— If  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman had  not  been  quite  so  sensitive,  I  would 
have  saved  him  the  trouble  of  making  his 
explanation. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— I  did  not 
wish  to  be  misrepresented. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — It  certainly  is  not 
my  desire  to  misrepresent  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman in  any  manner.  I  think  the  conclu- 
sion one  would  arrive  at,  after  hearing  his 
remarks  upon  the  point,  is  that  the  people 
would  still,  after  this  proposed  change  in  the 
Constitution,  have  the  power  to  make  ap- 
pointments to  this  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON  —  No,  but 
through  their  representatives. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — The  honorable  gen- 
tleman says  they  will  have  the  power,  through 
their  representatives,  to  make  their  appoint- 
ments, ^ell,  after  reading  the  fourteenth 
resolution,  it  does  appear  to  me  that,  after  the 
first  election  of  the  Chamber,  the  people  will 
have  nothing  at  all  to  do  with  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  honorable  gentleman  says,  how- 
ever, that  the  representatives  of  the  people 
will  have  the  power  of  making  these  appoint- 
ments. Who  are  the  representatives  of  the 
people  he  refers  to?  The  members  of  the 
Government,  who  will  have  this  power ;  or,  in 
other  words,  the  Crown  will  make  the  ap- 
pointments. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— With  the 
advice  of  the  representatives  of  the  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— Yes,  undoubtedly; 
but  the  people,  nevertheless,  will  have  nothing 
at  all  to  do  with  the  matter ;  we  advert  again, 
in  fact,  to  the  old  principle  when  the  Crown 
made  all  the  appointments.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Now,  with  regard  to  this  question,  I  feel  my- 
self in  this  position,  that  although  I  may  be 
in  favor  of  the  Crown  making  these  appoint- 
ments— upon  which  principle  I  express  no 
opinion  at  this  moment — if  I  voted  for  these 
resolutions  I  would  give  a  vote,  and  every 
member  of  this  House  would  give  a  vote,  by 
which  they  would  give  themselves  seats  in 
this  House  as  long  as  Providence  thought  fit 
to  let  them  remain.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  came 
here,  honorable  gentlemen,  to  conserve  certain 
interests,  to  represent  certain  classes,  and  to 
reflect  the  views  of  those  who  sent  me  here  so 
far  as  they  accorded  with  my  own  judgment. 
But  they  did  not  send  me  here  to  change  the 
Constitution  under  which  I  was  appointed, 
and  to  sweep  away  at  one  dash  the  privileges 


they  possess,  one  of  which  is,  to  give  a  seat  in 
this  House  to  him  in  whom  they  have  confi- 
dence.    It  does  not  appear  right  to  me  that 
the  members  of  this  House  should  declare, 
by  their  own  votes,  that  we  shall  remain  here 
for  all  time  to  come.      (Hear,  hear.)     The 
reasons  given  for   the  proposed   change   are 
various,  and  to  some  extent  conflicting.     We 
find  one  member  of  the  Government  telling  us 
that  it  is  because  the  Maritime  Provinces  are 
opposed  to  an  elective  Chamber,  and  hence  we 
in    Canada — the   largest  community  and  the 
most  influential — give  way  to  them,  and  sot 
aside  a  principle  that  was  solemnly  adopted 
here,  and  so  far  has  worked  without  prejudice 
to  our  interests.     We  find  another  gentleman, 
who,  when  the  question  came  up  years  ago, 
strongly  opposed  the  elective  principle,  quite 
as  strongly  opposes  it  now,  because  since  then 
certain   municipalities   have   borrowed    more 
than  they  are  able  to  pay !     These  are  some- 
what extraordinary  reasons,  and   I  trust  the 
House  will  give  them  their  due  weight.     I 
think,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  prior  to^the 
proposed  change  taking  place,  we   ought  not 
to  declare  by  our  own  votes  that  we  are  en- 
titled to  permanent  seats  in  this  House, — 
without,  at  any  rate,  knowing   whether   the 
people  consent  to  it  or  not ;  and  I  do  not  think 
I  am  wrong  in  using  this  line  of  argument, 
when  we  have  reason  to  believe  that,  even  if 
the  Crown-appointed  members  remnin  here,  a 
large  number  of  the  elected  members  will  also 


remain. 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — How  would  you  act  if 
you  were  satisfied  that  the  whole  public  opinion 
was  in  favor  of  it  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  can  very  easily 
answer  the  honorable  gentleman.  If  I  did  not 
and  could  not  reflect  the  views  of  my  con- 
stituents on  such  an  important  subject  as  this, 
there  is  one  thing  I  could  do,  return  to  them 
the  power  they  placed  in  my  hands.  (Hear, 
hear.)  That  is  the  course  I  should  feel  com- 
pelled to  take  under  such  circumstances. 
(Hear,  hear.)  With  regard  to  this  scheme 
altogether,  I  think  that  a  very  great  deal 
depends  upon  the  resolutions  themselves.  If 
we  are  to  have  framed  a  new  Constitution  upon 
them  as  a  basis,  all  of  them,  in  my  opinion, 
should  be  thoroughly  canvassed  and  examined ; 
and  this  House,  as  well  as  the  other  branch  of 
the  Legislature,  ought  not  to  be  prevented  by 
the  Government  of  the  day  from  expressing 
its  opinions  with  regard  to  their  merits. 
(Hear.)  It  is  said  by  many  honorable  gentle- 
men that  the  people  are  in  favor  of  this  scheme. 
I  think  the  people  are  in  favor  of  a  scheme 


158 


of  Confederation,  but   I   tliink    it    depends 
altogether  upon  tlie  details  of  that  scheme 
whether  they  will  give  it  their  approval  or  not. 
I  have  no  hesitation  in  declaring  what  is  the 
opinion  of  the  people  of  my  division.     I  meet 
and  mingle  with  them  almost   daily,  and  have 
had  ample  opportunities  of  ascertaining  their 
views  and  sentiments.     I  believe  that  a  very 
lar^c  proportion  of  them  have  no  fixed  and 
definite  opinions  with  regard  to  this  scheme. 
They  are  in  favor  of  Confederation,  but  they 
have  no  definite  distinct  ideas  in  regard  to  the 
details  of  the  scheme  proposed.    If  they  knew 
that  their  taxation  would  be  largely  increased 
by  it,  and  that  it  would  add  heavily  to  the 
public  burdens,  they  would   not   support  it. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  think,  then,  that  we  who  are 
placed  here  to  conserve  and   protect  the  in- 
terests  of  the   public,    should   be  extremely 
careful  and    analyse    these   resolutions   thor- 
oughly, and  ascertain,  as  nearly    as  possible, 
what  their  effect  is  likely  to  be,  before  we  take 
the  responsibility  of  voting  for  them.     I  have 
no  hesitation  in  declaring  that  there  never  was 
a  period  in  the  history  of  Canada  when  the 
people  suffered  more  than  they  do  at  present. 
(Hear,  hear.)      In  consequence  of    the  per- 
sonal,  municipal   and  national  indebtedness, 
the  farmers  of  the  country  were  never  placed 
in  a  worse  position  than  that  which  they  now 
occupy.     (Hear,  hear.)     When  we  find  that 
property  has  depreciated  in  value  within  the 
last  five  years,  twenty,  thirty,  forty,  ay,  and 
even  sixty  per  cent. ;  when  we  find  that  the 
crops  of  the  country  have  been  steadily  de- 
creasing in   quantity   and  value  within  that 
period ;  when  we  find  that  the  people  are  dis- 
satisfied with  the  manner  in  which  the  coun- 
try has  been  governed  during  the  last  eight  or 
ten  years ;  when  we  find  all  this,  we  may  be- 
lieve that  they  are  prepared  to  accept  almost 
any  change  that  promises  a  relief  from  their 
present  difficulties.     But  wo  were  placed  here 
to  conserve  their  interests,  to  look  after  their 
welfare,  and   should  not  hastily   adopt  any 
scheme,    proposed    by    any    Government  — 
whether   all    of   one   party   stripe   or  not  — 
without  fully  examining  it  and  weighing  the 
results  likely  to  flow  from  it.    (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  said  that  the  public  is  well  acciuainted 
with  the  nature  of  the  sclieme.     I  demur  to 
that  statement  in   toto.      The  public  is  not 
acquainted  with  it  in  all  its  bearings,  and  if 
there  is  one  thing  I  regret,  it  is  this,  that  it 
ha«  not  been  made  a  party  measure.      (Hear, 
hear.)  I  regret  this  because,  although  perhaps 
no   party   could   luive   carried  it  as  a  party 
measure   through   thi«  Legislature,  it  would 


have  been  better  if  proposed  as  a  party 
scheme,  for  then  its  merits  would  have  been 
more  thoroughly  canvassed  and  its  demerits 
more  thoroughly  exposed.  Our  public  men 
would  have  ranged  themselves  on  either  side  ; 
some  would  have  favored  it.  and  others  would 
have  opposed  it ;  they  would  have  pointed  out 
its  defects  as  well  as  its  good  points ;  the 
whole  subject  would  have  been  fully  venti- 
lated, and  the  result  would  have  been  that, 
if  passed  at  all,  the  scheme  would  have  been 
as  perfect  as  it  was  possible  to  have  made  it. 
But  what  do  you  find  now  ?  You  scarcely 
see  a  newspaper  from  one  end  of  the  country 
to  the  other  that  is  not  full  of  laudations  of 
the  scheme.  And  why  ?  Because  the  leading 
public  men  of  the  country  have  thought  proper 
to  make  a  fusion  ;  the  leading  daily  journals  on 
both  sides  applaud  the  step  and  the  scheme 
that  followed,  and  the  small  papers  through  _ 
out  the  province,  as  in  duty  bound,  follow 
in  their  wake. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— They  only  ex- 
press public  opinion.  * 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — Public  opinion,  the 
honorable  gentleman  says.  I  say  that  public 
opinion  has  not  sufficiently  weighed  this  scheme, 
and  that  we  should  be  influenced  here  by  our 
own  matured  opinion  in  regard  to  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  As  I  have  already  stated,  I  am  in 
favor  of  the  confederation  of  these  provinces, 
framed  on  a  proper  basis  ;  and  all  I  desire  is 
that  we  should  have  the  opportunity  of  exam- 
ining all  these  resolutions,  and  if  we  object  to 
any  of  them,  finding  them  imperfect  or  un- 
suitable, that  we  should  have  power  to  amend 
them,  (Hear,  hear.)  So  far  as  the  amend- 
ment that  has  been  proposed  is  concerned, 
there  are  portions  of  it  with  which  I  cordially 
agree.  After  it  has  been  thoroughly  discussed, 
I  shall,  like  other  honorable  members,  make 
up  my  mind  as  to  what  course  I  shall  pursue 
in  reference  to  it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon,  Mr.  REESOR — As  no  one  has  taken 
the  floor  to  continue  the  debate,  1  beg  to 
enquire  of  the  Honorable  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands  why  it  is  that  certain  export 
duties  are  allowed  under  this  scheme  to  be 
collected  by  the  local  governments  in  New 
Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia,  but  which  in 
Canada  are  collected  by  the  Gcnenil  Govern- 
ment ?  It  is  part  of  the  forty-third  resolu- 
tion, which  reads: — "The  local  legislatures 
shall  have  power  to  make  laws  rospecting  tho 
following  subjects:  Direct  taxation,  and  in 
New  Brunswick  the  imposition  of  duties  on 
the  export  of  timber,  logs,  masts,  npiu's,  deals 
and   sawn   lumber;  and  in  Nova  Scotia,  of 


159 


coal  aad  other  minerals."  That,  it  appears 
to  me,  is  leaving  very  valuable  material  to  be 
subject  to  taxation  by  these  local  governments, 
for  they  comprise  a  very  large  proportion  of 
the  exports  of  the  country.  This  is  giving  a 
great  preference  to  the  eastern  provinces  in 
regard  to  powers  of  taxation.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Then,  again,  as  stated  by  the  President  of  the 
Council,  in  another  place,  the  sum  of  $63,000 
a  year  is  to  be  given  as  a  sort  of  gratuity  to 
New  Brunswick  for  a  period  of  ten  years. 
When  these  things  are  taken  into  considera- 
tion, certainly  it  seems  that  our  public  men 
representing  Canada  in  the  Conference  have 
gone  to  work  in  a  rather  reckless  manner. 
They  have  apparently  been  regardless  of  ex- 
pense on  the  part  of  Canada,  while  particularly 
careful  to  meet  every  objection  to  union  on 
the  part  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  It  would 
appear  that  because  Canada  is  the  largest 
colony,  they  were  willing  to  grant  everything 
that  the  other  colonies  asked.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  seems  extraordinary  too  that  these  gentle- 
men should  have  passed  a  scheme  binding  the 
Government  to  construct  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  without  any  understanding  or  know- 
ledge as  to  what  it  will  cost.     (Hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  wiU  be  some- 
what inconvenient  for  a  member  of  the  Gov- 
ernment to  answer  at  once  the  questions  put 
by  the  honorable  member,  but  I  have  no  ob- 
jection to  answer  those  which  he  has  now 
asked.  The  House  understands,  of  course, 
that  the  Crown  lands  of  the  provinces  are 
retained  under  the  Confederation  scheme  by 
each  individual  province.  It  was  found  ne- 
cessary that  they  should  be  retained  in  order 
to  provide  each  province  with  the  required 
funds  to  carry  on  the  local  government.  In 
the  province  of  New  Brunswick  the  duties 
that  are  levied  in  Canada  as  "stumpage  dues" 
on  cutting  down  timber,  are  not  levied  in  the 
woods  but  collected  at  the  ports  as  export 
duties,  this  being  in  that  province  a  more  con- 
venient and  less  expensive  mode  of  obtaining 
revenue  from  the  timber  trade.  Now,  the 
honorable  gentleman  will  see  that  if  we  do 
not  allow  the  Local  Government  in  New 
Brunswick  to  collect  these  dues  in  this  way, 
the  revenue  which  is  derived  in  Canada  from 
"  stumpage  dues,"  would  be  lost  to  New 
Brunswick.  That  is  the  reason  why  the  ex- 
ception he  refers  to  was  made.  In  the  same 
way,  with  reference  to  Nova  Scotia,  was  al- 
lowed the  royalty  on  coal,  that  is  the  percentage 
of  the  product  of  the  mines  reserved  for  the 
use  of  the  Government,  which  is  collected  as  a 
duty  on  the  export  of  the  article.    There  also 


the  export  duty  is  reserved  as  a  source  of 
revenue  to  the  Local  Government,  it  being 
necessary  in  both  cases  that  they  should  have 
the  advantage  of  their  territorial  revenue  in 
the  same  way  as  the  local    governments  in 
Canada,  which  will  collect  the  same  revenue 
in  a  different  way.    At  the  first  glance  it  may 
seem  that  this  clause  gives  especial   advan- 
tages to  the  Lower  Provinces  not  conferred 
,'  upon  the  local  governments  here,  but  this  is 
■  not  the  case.     (Hear,  hear.)     Then,  with  re- 
gard to  the  subvention  of  $63,000  a  year  to 
;  New  Brunswick  for  a  period  of  ten  years,  it 
was  found  necessary  because  during  that  time 
it  would  be  impossible  for  New  Brunswick 
out  of  its  local  revenue  to  carry  out  the  un- 
dertakings upon  which  the  province  had  en- 
tered.    The  honorable  gentleman  said,  and  I 
regret  to  hear  the  statement,  that  the  repre- 
sentatives of  Canada  must  have  been  reckless, 
and  that  as  the  Lower  Provinces  made  de- 
mands conditional  upon   entering  the  union, 
we  had  to  submit  with  what  gTace  we  could. 
AU  I  can  say  is  that  I  wish  very  heartily  that 
those  gentlemen  who  thus  find  fault  had  been 
at  the  Conference,  and  then  they  would  have 
had  an  opportunity  of  judging  whether  in- 
deed we  were  reckless  or  not;    and  I  must 
say  to  my  honorable  friend,  whom  I  have  had 
the  pleasure  of  knowing  for  some  years,  that 
if  he  had  truly  known  the  representatives  of 
Canada    on    that    occasion,  he    would    have 
spared  us  to-day  the  imputation  made  against 
them  that  they  were  reckless.     (Hear,  hear.) 
The  $63,000  were  given  to  New  Brunswick 
because  it  was  found  that  with  the  local  rev- 
enue allowed  her  it  would  have  been  impossi- 
ble   for  her  to  fulfil   her  engagements.      It 
would  of  course  have  been  idle  to  have  gone 
into  a  confederation  and  find  that  the  revenues 
of  that  colony  had  been  so  far  ceded  to  us 
that  she  was  unable  to  meet  the  obligations 
into  which  she  had  entered,  and  that  the  Con- 
federation would  be  responsible  for  the  claims 
of  her  creditors.  The  engagements  into  which 
she  had  entered  involved  a  subvention  of  the 
railways  of  the  province.      In  New  Bruns- 
wick they  thought  it  better,  rather  than  take 
the  shares  or  mortgages  of  a  railway  for  the 
encouragement  of  railway  enterprise,  to  give  a 
certain  sum  at  once  for  railway  purposes.  Any 
company  constructing  a  railway  became  entitled 
to  a  certain  sum  per  mile  out  of  the  public  funds. 
Thus  liabilities  were  incixrred  which  of  course 
it  was  necessary  to  redeem.   Well,  New  Bruns- 
wick having  ceded  all  her  ordinary  revenues 
to  the  General  Government,  means  had  to  be 
provided  by  it  to  enable  her  to  meet  these 


160 


liabilities.  And  I  may  say  that  these  rail- 
ways, which  are  among  the  public  works 
ceded  to  the  General  Government,  are  not 
valueless.  They  yield  a  revenue  to  the  pub- 
lic exchequer.  I  do  not  remember  the  exact 
sum,  but  it  Ls  about  S6,000  or  $8,000  per 
annum. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— That  is  exactly 
three-eighths  of  one  per  cent,  of  their  cost. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Well,  I  said 
they  yielded  a  revenue — I  did  not  say  what 
proportion  it  bore  to  their  cost — and  when 
we  give  this  sum  we  know  that  we  are 
not  entirely  without  a  return  for  it.  Un- 
less we  made  some  provision  for  this  pay- 
ment we  would  have  been  unable  to  carry 
out  the  scheme,  and  there  is  a  fair  proba- 
bility of  these  works  becoming  more  pro- 
ductive. Of  course,  some  gentlemen  may 
say  that  it  was  possible  to  have  given  the  other 
provinces  equivalents  for  this  expenditure  in 
iNew  Brunswick,  but  we  all  know  how  un- 
favorable to  our  finances  has  been  this  system 
of  equivalents.  (Hear,  hear.)  A  similar 
sum  might  have  been  granted  to  the  other 
provinces,  but  that  would  have  been  nothing 
but  extravagance,  which,  I  am  sure,  the 
country  would  be  slow  to  sanction,  in  view  of 
the  past  experience  in  this  province  in  the 
system  of  equivalents.  (Hear,  hear.)  This, 
we  all  felt  convinced,  was  the  most  economical 
and  prudent  course  to  have  followed  in  order 
to  obtain  the  end  of  Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— I  would  like  to  ask 
the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands  whether, 
supposing  I  sent  a  vessel  from  Montreal  with 
flour  to  a  lower  port,  and  it  returned  with  a 
cargo  of  coal,  there  would  be  an  export  duty 
upon  it  in  Nova  Scotia  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL — I  am  not  aware 
that  there  would  be,  but  upon  this  point  I 
speak  under  correction.  That  is  a  question 
which,  if  the  honorable  gentleman  desires  ex- 
plicit inlbrmation,  I  would  like  to  reserve  for 
a  future  occasion.  If  questions  are  put,  not 
to  embarrass  the  passage  gS  the  scheme  before 
the  House,  but  to  elicit  information  on  par- 
ticular points,  I  shall  pi-cpare  myself  to  answer 
them  as  fally  as  possible.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
am  sure,  liowever,  no  honorable  gentleman 
would  put  questions  with  a  view  of  embar- 
rassing the  subject,  but  simply  to  obtain  in- 
formation on  certain  points. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— I  have  no  desire  to 
ask  questions  in  order  to  create  embarrass- 
ment, but  this  is  a  (juestion  forced  upon  me 
by  the  exj)lanations  that  have  been  made,  and 
Yrhile  I  am  up  I  may  ask  another.     I  will  not 


discuss  how  much  Upper  Canada  gives  to  the 
General  Government  under  this  scheme,  but 
It  strikes  me  as  singular  that  in  making  these 
compensations  the  Conference  gave  them  all 
to  the  Lower  Provinces.  ^Vhy  was  not  this 
money  required  by  New  Brunswick  raised  by 
direct  taxation,  and  the  colonies  thus  placed 
on  an  equal  footing  ?     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — Because  the  income  of 
these  railways  in  New  Brunswick  accrues  to 
the  General  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— But  they  pay 
nothing. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — They  do  pay  something 
now,  and  in  future  they  will  pay  more.  I, 
however,  speak  only  from  my  own  individual 
point  of  view,  and  not  from  any  knowledge 
other  than  that  in  possession  of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— And  I  speak  from 
the  same,  and  think  the  objection  I  have  made 
good. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — As  to  the  export  duty 
on  coal  from  Nova  Scotia,  it  appears  from  the 
resolutions  that  the  equivalent  given  to  Upper 
Canada  for  this  revenue  is  the  duty  on  Crown 
timber. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— Well,  what  about 
the  fishery  dues  given  to  the  Lower  Provinces  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— We  will  have  that  by 
and  by.  I  am  only  answering  one  question 
now.  It  is  in  lieu  of  the  duty  we  levy  on 
timber,  and  known  as  "  stumpage  dues,'"  that 
Nova  Scotia  is  allowed  to  levy  an  export  duty 
on  coal.  The  honorable  gentleman  shakes  his 
head,  but  it  is  a  fact. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— It  is  not  on  the 
stump  that  we  levy  dues,  but  as  the  hewn 
timber  passes  through  the  slides. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Well,  it  is  not  an  ex- 
port duty  at  any  rate ;  but  in  New  Brunswick 
it  pays  a  duty  when  exported,  either  as  saw- 
logs  or  square  timber.  In  both  cases  it  pays 
a  duty  to  the  Local  Government,  and  it  only 
seems  reasonable  that  Nova  Scotia  should  en- 
joy a  revenue  from  her  coal  wherever  it  goes. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE— If  the  coal  were  ex- 
ported to  a  foreign  country,  then  I  could  un- 
derstand why  a  duty  shoixld  be  imposed,  but 
when  a  ship  is  laden  in  one  port  of  the  Con- 
federation, with  coal,  for  another  port  in  the 
same  country,  it  does  not  appear  much  like  a 
free  Confederation  if  an  export  duty  is  levied 
upon  the  cargo.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  would 
seem,  then,  to  be  a  distinction — a  preference 
for  one  portion  over  another — within  the 
limits  of  the  Confederation.  If  wo  are  to  have 
a  union,  I  hope  we  shall  hava  it  in  fact  and 


161 


not  in  name  alone.  I  should  like  to  be  fully 
informed  as  to  whether  an  export  duty  is  to 
be  levied  on  coal  in  Nova  Scotia,  no  matter 
whether  it  is  intended  for  another  part  of  the 
Confederation  or  for  a  foreign  country, 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  royalty  col- 
lected on  coal  in  Nova  Scotia  is  similar  to  the 
stumpage  duty  on  timber  in  Canada,  which  is 
paid  no  matter  where  the  timber  is  exported 
to.  It  may  well  be,  therefore,  that  when  coal 
is  exported  from  Nova  Sootia  to  another  pro- 
vince it  will  contribute  to  the  revenues  of  the 
Local  Government  of  Nova  Scotia.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR — There  are  several 
other  provisions  in  the  proposed  Constitution 
which  seem  to  be  ambiguous  in  their  meaning, 
and  before  discussion  upon  them  it  would  be 
well  to  have  them  fully  explained.  In  the 
eleventh  clause  of  the  twenty-ninth  resolution, 
for  instance,  it  is  declared  that  the  General 
Parliament  shall  have  power  to  make  laws 
respecting  "  all  such  works  as  shall,  although 
lying  wholly  within  any  province,  be  specially 
declared  by  the  acts  authorizing  them  to  be 
for  the  general  advantage."  It  would  appear 
from  this,  that  works  like  the  Welland  canal, 
which  yield  a  very  large  revenue,  will  be  given 
over  to  the  General  Government;  and  this 
being  the  case,  surely  this  is  a  sufficient  set- 
off, five  times  over,  for  the  railways  given  by 
New  Brunswick,  without  the  annual  subsidy 
proposed  to  be  given  to  that  province  of 
^63,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— The  cost  of 
these  works  forms  part  of  the  public  debt  of 
Canada,  which  is  to  be  borne  in  part  by  the 
Lower  Provinces  under  the  Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  honorable 
gentleman  will  see  that  there  are  some  works 
which,  although  local  in  their  geographical 
position,  are  general  in  their  character  and 
results.  Such  works  become  the  property 
of  the  General  Government.  The  Welland 
canal  is  one  of  them,  because,  although  it  is 
local  in  its  position,  it  is  a  work  in  which 
the  whole  country  is  interested,  as  the  chief 
means  of  water  communication  between  the 
western  lakes  and  the  sea.  Other  works,  in 
the  Lower  Provinces,  may  be  of  the  same 
character,  and  it  is  not  safe  to  say  that  be- 
cause a  certain  work  lies  wholly  in  one  pro- 
vince, it  is  not  to  belong  to  the  General  Gov- 
ernment. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— I  do  not  object  to 
the  General  Government  having  the  control 
of  these  works.     It  is,  I  believe,  a  wise  pro- 
vision to  place  them  under  such  control.    But 
22 


I  do  say  that  it  is  unfair  that  an  express  stip- 
ulation should  be  made  to  pay  one  province  a 
large  sum  per  annum  for  certain  works,  while, 
at  the  same  time,  we  throw  in  our  public 
works,  such  as  the  Welland  and  St.  Lawrence 
canals,  without  any  consideration  whatever. 
This,  I  think,  is  paying  quite  too  much  for 
the  whistle.  Then  the  answer  of  the  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  about  the  export 
duty  on  minerals  in  Nova  Scotia  is  not  at  all 
satisfactory.  Whatever  dues  may  be  levied 
on  minerals  in  Canada — and  Canada,  althou2;h 
it  may  contain  no  coal,  is  rich  in  gold,  silver, 
copper,  iron,  and  other  ores — in  the  shape  of 
a  royalty  or  otherwise,  go  to  the  General 
Government,  while  in  Nova  Scotia  they  ac- 
crue for  the  benefit  of  the  Local  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— No,  they  will  not  go  to 
the  General  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— Well,  there  is  no- 
thing to  the  contraiy  in  the  resolutions,  and 
you  may  depend  upon  it  that  whatever  reve- 
nues the  General  Government  may  claim, 
under  the  proposed  Constitution,  will  be  fully 
insisted  upon. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— My  honorable 
friend,  referring  a  moment  ago  to  the  Welland 
and  other  canals,  objected  to  certain  works 
being  considered  as  belonging  to  the  General 
Government,  because  they  are  local  in  their 
geographical  position. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— I  do  not  say  that 
they  should  not  go  to  the  General  Govern- 
ment, but  what  I  do  say  is  that  they  are  a 
sufficient  set-off  for  the  works  given  by  the 
Lower  Provinces,  without  paying  them  a 
special  sum  from  the  general  revenues  of 
$63,000  per  annum. 

A  Message  from  the  Legislative  Assembly 
interrupted  further  discussion  upon  the  sub- 
ject, and  the  House  afterwards  adjourned 
without  resuming  it. 


Monday,  February  13,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— Honorable  gentle- 
men, as  the  question  now  under  considera- 
tion involves  a  change  in  the  constitution,  not 
only  of  this  House  but  of  the  whole  of  the 
British  American  Provinces,  I  think  that  more 
time  ought  to  be  given  to  it ;  and  my  object 
in  now  rising,  is  to  urge  upon  this  Honorable 
House  the  propriety  of  adjourning  this  de- 
bate— say  for  ten  days.  (No !  no  !)  Many 
new  features  have  been  developed  since  the 


162 


discussion  opened  that  were  not  before  pro- 
perly understood.  The  question  has  not  been 
sufficiently  understood  in  the  country,  and 
even  now  I  doubt  whether  the  proposed 
changes  are  thoroughly  comprehended  in  both 
branches  of  the  Legislature.  Constitutions  are 
not  usually  made  in  a  day,  and  they  should 
not  be  passed  in  a  week ;  they  are  matters  of 
too  grave  a  character.  I  trust,  if  we  make  a 
new  Constitution,  it  will  be  one  that  will  be 
sustained  not  for  ten  or  twenty  years,  but  for 
centuries.  It  is  to  be  hoped  that  every  change 
which  is  made  will  be  of  the  right  character, 
and  in  accordance  with  the  interests  of  the 
country;  not  such  a  change  as  will  have  to  be 
repealed  again  in  a  few  years. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL.— Will  the  hon. 
gentleman  make  a  motion  on  this  subject,  or 
shall  we  continue  the  debate  without  that 
motion  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOK.— I  have  in  my  hand 
a  resolution,  which  I  propose  to  submit  to  the 
House  shortly. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL.— Does  the  hon. 
gentleman  intend  to  choke  off  discussion  now  ? 
Surely  that  is  not  desirable. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR.— Thehon.  gentleman 
knows  we  do  not  desire  to  choke  off  discuasion. 
If  any  persons  arc  anxious  that  the  discussion 
should  be  choked  off,  they  are  those  who  are 
desirous  of  pushing  through  this  measure  with 
undue  haste.  There  are  many  reasons  why 
the  discussion  of  this  question  should  be  de- 
layed. First,  its  very  great  importance; 
secondly,  to  enable  us  to  obtain  more  informa- 
tion upon  it.  It  is  well  known  that  very  elo- 
quent and  effective  speeches  have  been  made 
in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature,  which 
have  not  yet  been  published  in  full,  and  with- 
out which  we  cannot  so  thoroughly  understand 
what  arguments  are  made  in  favor  of  the 
measure,  as  is  desirable.  I  beg  to  move  that 
this  debate  be  adjourned  for  ten  days. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE- 1  agree  with  tlie 
hon.  gentleman  who  has  made  this  motion  that 
the  question  now  before  us  is  a  very  important 
one,  and  should  be  fully  considered  in  all  its 
bearings,  both  by  this  House  and  the  people 
of  the  province  at  large.  I  think,  with  him, 
that  we  ought  to  have  the  benefit  of  the  peru- 
sal of  the  able  and  eloquent  speeches  which 
have  been  made  in  the  other  branch  of  the 
Legislature,  and  in  this  branch  also;  and  inas- 
much as  they  have  postponed  the  discussion  in 
the  other  branch  of  tiie  Legislature,  I  apprehend 
there  would  be  nothing  improper  in  our  doing 
so  too.  Again,  there  are  other  contracting 
par  tied  to  this  measure,  viz.,  the  Lower  Pror- 


inces,  which  are  equally  interested  with  our- 
selves. In  Nova  Scotia  the  Legislature,  I 
understand,  is  in  session,  and  by  telegraphic 
communication,  from  day  to  day,  we  could 
ascertain  the  feeling  of  the  people  there.  This 
would  not  at  all  retard  the  action  of  this 
House,  for  it  is  known  that  business  is  usually 
despatched  with  more  rapidity  here  than  in  the 
other.  Nothing,  it  seems  to  me,  will  be  lost, 
but,  on  the  contrary,  much  gained  by  a  tem- 
porary postponement  of  the  debate.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  desire  to  place  my  views  on  the 
whole  subject  before  this  House,  but  I  desire 
to  give  them  only  after  the  matter  has  been 
calmly  and  deliberately  discussed.  The  ques- 
tion is  one  which  concerns  us  all.  I  do  not 
think  the  discussion  of  it  should  be  entered 
upon  with  any  party  spirit  or  any  party  feel- 
ing. Our  interests  are  all  the  same,  whether 
for  weal  or  woe.  If  the  measure  be  a  good 
one — if  the  project  for  our  Confederation  be 
a  salutary  one — if  it  be  a  panacea  for  all  the 
existing  evils  of  our  body  politic — a  little 
time  given  for  reflection  can  do  it  no  harm. 
(Hear.)  When  we  come  to  the  discussion  of 
the  scheme,  there  are  several  important  points 
to  be  cleared  up.  We  have  yet  to  ascertain 
the  respective  and  relative  powers  of  the 
federal  and  local  governments,  and  it  is  desir- 
able that  ample  time  should  be  given  to  the 
Government  for  the  answering  of  questions 
upon  this  subject.  Then  we  have  to  receive 
explanations  about  the  export  duty  on  coal 
and  other  minerals — whether  this  export  duty 
is  to  be  levied  by  or  on  behalf  of  the  Local 
Government  of  Nova  Scotia  after  Confeder- 
ation, and  whether  it  is  to  be  levied  on  all 
coal  exported,  or  not  upon  coal  exported  to 
other  sections  of  the  proposed  union.  Again, 
in  regard  to  the  export  duty  on  the  lumber  of 
New  Brunswick,  is  it  to  bo  applied,  as  I 
understand  it,  to  the  local  revenue  of  that 
province  ?  Then,  as  to  the  stump;igc  duty 
on  that  portion  of  the  Crown  domain  apper- 
taining to  Lower  Canada,  is  that  to  be  applied 
to  the  purposes  of  the  Local  Government  of 
Lower  Canada  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  shall  be  very 
happy  to  give  my  hon.  friend,  from  time  to 
time,  as  the  questions  may  be  put,  all  the 
information  he  may  desire. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE — It  is  certainly  desir- 
able that  they  should  be  answered,  either  by 
the  hon.  the  Premier  or  the  hon.  the  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands,  and  it  does  appear 
to  me  that  it  would  be  profitable  for  the 
Houi'e  to  postpone  the  debate,  to  afford  time 
ibr  doing  so  fully. 


163 


The  question  being  put,  the  amendment 
was  lost  on  the  following  vote : — 

Contexts  : — Honorable  Messieurs  Aikins, 
Archambault,  Armstrong,  Bennett,  Chaffers, 
Cormier,  Currie,  A.  J.  Duchesnay,  Flint,  Leonard, 
Leslie,  McDonald,  Moore,  Olivier,  Perry,  Proulx, 
Eeesor,  Seymour,  and  Simpson. — 19. 

NoN-CoNTENTS  : — Honorable  Messieurs  Alex- 
ander, Allan,  Armand,  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau,  Fer- 
gusson  Blair,  Blake,  Boulton,  Boss6,  Bull, 
Burnham,  Campbell,  Christie,  Crawford,  De 
Beaujeu,  Dickson,  E.  H.  J.  Duchesnay,  Dumou- 
chel,  Ferrier,  Foster,  Giugras,  Hamilton  (Inker- 
man),  Hamilton  (Kingston),  Lacoste,  McCrea, 
McMaster,  Macpherson,  Matheson,  Mills,  Panet, 
Prud'homme,  Read,  Ross,  Shaw,  Skead,  Sir  E. 
P.  Tache,  VidaL  and  Wilson 37. 

Hon.  Mr.  KEESOK— I  shall  be  very 
brief  in  the  remarks  I  have  now  to  make  to 
the  House.  I  do  not  object  to  the  objects  of 
these  resolutions,  or  to  the  measure  per  se, 
but  I  do  object  to  some  of  its  details.  I  hope 
to  see  a  union  of  the  British  North  American 
Colonies  effected,  but  what  I  am  anxious  for 
is  that  the  conditions  of  the  union  may  be  so 
satisfactory  and  well  considered,  thit  there 
wUl  not  be  embraced  therein  the  seeds  of 
future  disruption,  or  anything  that  will  give 
rise  to  a  desire  on  the  part  of  any  of  the  prov- 
inces to  separate  from  the  union,  or  prevent 
other  portions  of  British  North  America 
coming  in  hereafter  a'\d  forming  parts  of  this 
proposed  Confederation.  I  hope  we  shall  be 
some  day  a  great  British  North  American 
Confederacy,  but  that  is  the  greater  reason 
why  the  terms  of  the  agreement  should  be  of 
such  a  character  that  we  can  all,  or  nearly  all, 
approve  of  them.  We  must  bear  in  mind, 
also,  that  one  reason  why  those  who  were 
heretofore  the  exponents  of  the  views  of  two 
great  political  parties  are  all  on  one  side  at 
the  present  time,  arises  from  the  very  peculiar 
circumstances  in  which  the  country  has  been 
placed  for  the  last  eight  or  ten  years.  Those 
who  support  this  measure  have  given  as  reasons 
for  it  that  we  have  had  so  many  political 
crises,  and  the  changes  have  been  so  varied, 
that  it  becomes  necessary  for  some  great  con- 
stitutional change  to  be  made.  They  have  at  the 
same  time  carefully  enumerated  the  political 
changes  that  have  taken  place  during  the  past 
four  or  five  years.  First  we  had  the  C  artier- 
Macdonald  Administration,  which  was  sus- 
tained in  the  Assembly  by  a  very  small 
majority  for  two  or  three  sessions.  Then  we 
had  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Government 
sustained  by  a  very  slim  majority.  Then  the 
M  acdonald-Dorion  Government,scarcely  any 
sfa-onger.     Then  again  the  Tache-Macdon- 


ald  Government  with  an  equally  slim  major- 
ity ; — so  that  we  were  really  in  a  state  of 
political  crisis  like  that  of  a  merchant,  who, 
having  suffered  many  losses  in  business  affairs, 
yet,  with  his  credit  still  good,  at  last  becomes 
confused,  and,  incapable  of  exercising  his  judg- 
ment, launches  into  some  scheme  that  proves 
ruinous,  whereas  calmness  and  deliberation 
might  have  retrieved  his  situation.  We  had 
three  governments  form'ed  within  as  many 
years,  each  failing  in  turn  to  administer  affairs 
to  the  satisfaction  of  the  people.  We  had,  in 
the  TACHfi-MACDONALD  cabinet,  a  Finance 
Minister  on  whom  a  vote  of  censure  of  the  most 
serious  character  was  passed,  which  amounted 
to  a  vote  of  want  of  confidence  in  the  whole 
Government.  At  that  time  we  had  in  opposi- 
tion the  gentleman  who  is  now  the  President 
of  the  Council,  who  had  contended  for  ten 
years  for  a  change  of  the  constitutional  rela- 
tions between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  He 
failed  to  accomplish  his  object.  He  could  not 
consistently  ally  himself  with  his  opponents 
without  some  new  scheme  to  lay  before  the 
country.  To  form  a  government,  he  could 
not.  The  Finance  Minister  being  condemned, 
the  government  was  bound  to  reconstruct  or 
resign.  Each  party  desired  to  rule,  but 
neither  was  able.  Out  of  political  adversity 
grew  political  desperation.  It  was  called  by 
some  a  political  millennium,  and  perhaps  it 
was  ;  but  matters  were  just  in  that  shape  to 
induce  parties  to  take  up  almost  any  new 
scheme,  as  in  this  case,  in  which  I  think  they 
have  gone  on  quite  too  rapidly.  They  have 
not  deliberated  sufficiently  to  propose  a  mea- 
sure of  that  mature  character  which  the 
country  had  a  right  to  expect.  Perhaps  as 
good  a  measure  bus  been  brought  out  as  could 
have  been,  considering  the  short  time  that  has 
elapsed,  and  the  disadvantages  under  which 
they  labored  during  the  discussion  of  the 
scheme.  But  it  must  be  admitted  that  when 
this  measure  was  agreed  to  by  our  Government, 
they  adopted  a  hasty  course.  The  country 
heard  only  one  side  of  the  question.  (Hear.) 
They  had  the  great  daily  newspapers,  the 
chief  organs  of  public  opinion  of  both  politi- 
cal parties,  all  on  their  side,  and  there  was  only 
a  small  portion  of  the  country  press,  and  that 
not  widely  circulated,  that  gave  the  opposite 
side  of  the  question.  And  so  it  has  teen 
going  on  up  to  the  present  time ;  and  now  we 
have  the  scheme  brought  before  us  in 
its  present  shape.  I  consider  that,  under 
these  circumstances,  it  is  our  duty  to  give 
very  serious  attention  to  the  question,  before 
we  adopt  it  as  it  is,     (Hear,  hear.)     I  fur- 


164 


ther  think,  and  I  know  many  others  agree 
with  me,  that  these  resolutions  may  be  amend- 
ed in  some  points,  and  yet  without  in  the 
slightest  degree  endangering  the  whole  scheme. 
But  the  Government  say,  "you  must  take  the 
whole  measure,  or  no  part  of  it."      I   very 
much  fear  that  the  determination  of  the  Gov- 
ernment in  this  respect  is,  if  I  may  so  speak, 
father  to  their  wish.     That  they  have  fallen 
in  love  with  their  scheme.     It  is  their  pet 
measure — their  bantling — and   they  wish  to 
get    it   through,   without    any    amendment, 
just  as    it    is.      Suppose    amendments    are 
proposed  that  really  can  only  affect  Canada, 
and  cannot  affect  our  relations  with  the  other 
provinces  at  all ;   what  reason  is  there  that 
these  amendments  should  not  be  made  ?     The 
Government  can  surely  communicate  with  the 
other  provinces,  and  get  their  assent.     At  the 
same  time,  while  I  am  speaking  on  these  parti- 
cular points,  I  must  express  my  dissent  from  cer- 
tain other  features  of  the  resolutions,  but  they 
are  features,  I  fear,  that  we  can  do  nothing  to 
alter  now,  for  we  shall  be  obliged,  as  the  Gov- 
ernment say,  to  adopt  the  whole  of  the  resolu- 
tions or  none. 

Hon.   Mr.   CAMPBELL— That    is  the 
point. 

Hon.   Mr.   REESOR— Yes,  that  is  the 
point  in  reference  to  certain  of  these  resolu- 
tions, but  not  with  regard  to  others.      Two 
years  ago  the  Government  of  Canada  had  a 
conference  with  members  of  the  governments 
of  Nova  Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,   and  in 
that  conference  agreed  that  upon  certain  con- 
ditions, if  the  money  could  be  obtained,  with 
the  guarantee  of  the  home  Government,    at 
a  certain   rate   of  interest,  the   Intercolonial 
Railway  should  be  built,  and  they  further 
agreed  that  Canada  should  only  have  to  pay 
five-twelfths  of  the  cost,  which  was  then  esti- 
mated, as  it  was  stated,  at  twelve  millions  of 
dollars.     I  believe,  on  good  authority,  that  a 
company  offered  to  build  the  i  oad  for  twelve 
millions  of  dollars,  and  undertook  to  run  it, 
without   any   additional   charge,   for   twelve 
years. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — It  was  three  million 
pounds  sterling,  or  fifteen  millions  of  dollars. 

Hon.  Mr.  RE E SO R— Perhaps  it  was; 
but  let  us  suppose  that  the  estimates  should 
be  as  high  as  they  are  at  present ;  let  us  con- 
ceive the  fact  aa  possible  that  tlie  company 
might  fail  to  complete  the  road  without  more 
aid  ;  and  that  it  might  have  cost  as  much  as 
is  now  estimated,  namely,  eighteen  millions 
of  dollars, — still  Canada  would  only  have  had 
five-twelfths  of  this  to  pay.      But  here,  in 


the  short  space  of  two  years,  we  have  had 
such  a  change,  such  a  sudden  change,  that  one 
statesman  of  Canada,  a  man  of  very  great  in- 
fluence, and  who  now  presides  over  the  adminis- 
tration of  affairs  in  this  country,  the  President 
of  the  Council,  who  opposed  that  scheme  be- 
cause it  involved  too  large  an  expenditure  for 
Canada  to  incur- — 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — He    does  not  preside 
over  the  administration  of  affairs. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— We  call  president 
the  man  who  presides,  and  ho  presides    be- 
cause   he    is  president — who  opposed  that 
scheme  because  it  was  alleged  Canada  was 
paying  far  more  than  her  just  proportion  but  is 
now  in  favor  of  it.  Had  it  not  been  so  strong- 
ly opposed  by  a  man  in  such  a  position,  and 
had  the  Government  not  been  so  weak,  I  be- 
lieve the  scheme  would  have  been  carried  out. 
He  who  opposed  it  was  one  who  had  been 
twenty  years  in  public  life ;  his  opinion  was 
justly  considered   valuable,  and  many  were 
disposed  to  agree  with  it.     Had  the  ministry 
gone  to  the  country  then,  taking  the  Inter- 
colonial Railroad  on  their  backs,  I  venture  to 
say  they  would  have  been   totally  defeated. 
They  would  have  had  a  large  majority  against 
them  in  Upper  Canada,  and  I  think  a  ma- 
jority against  them  in  Lower  Canada  also. 
But  how  is  it  now  ?     Why,  this  Intercolonial 
Railway  is  to  be  built  out  of  the  funds  of  the 
Intercolonial  Government  that  is  proposed  to 
be  established,  so  that  instead  of  Canada  hav- 
ing to  pay  only  five-twelfths  of  the  whole  cost, 
she  will  have  to  pay  ten-twelfths.      (Hear, 
hear.)    This  will  involve  five  to  seven  millions 
of  dollars  of  an  expense  more  than  we  had 
any  occasion  for  incurring,  for  the  other  pro- 
vinces were  all  willing  to  have  been  responsi- 
ble for  the  rest,  and  there  is  very  good  rea- 
son why  they  should.     The  countries  to  be 
benefited  by  the    Intercolonial  Railway  are 
New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia,  but  especi- 
ally the  former.     In  that  province  there  is  an 
extensive  wilderness,  with  some  vduable  tim- 
ber limits,  if  not  much  farming  land,  through 
which  this  road  will  have  to  pass,  and  every 
acre  of  land  within  twenty  or  thirty  miles  of 
the  road  will  be  largely  increased  in  value. 
New  Brunswick  would  gain  that  advantage, 
while  as  for  Nova  Scotia,  Halifax,  its  chief 
port,  will  be  made  an  outlet  by  the  construc- 
tion of  the  line,  and  will  of  course  be  largely 
benefitod,  so  that  they   were  only  proposiag 
what  was  fair  and  equitable ;  but  in  coming 
down  with  a  scheme  which  involves  us   in 
twice  as  great  an  expenditure  as  was  formerly 
contemplated,  they  seem  not   to   have  been 


165 


satisfied,  unless  we  handed  over  to  the  Federal 
Government  our  public  works.     These,  hon. 
gentlemen,  are  of  immense  value  to  Canada. 
By  imposing  tolls  on  our  canals  to  an  extent 
which    they  would   easily  bear,    and  which 
would  not  prevent  our  cai-rying  on  the  same 
immense  trade  as  at  present,  we  could  readily 
raise  half  a  million  a  year.      The  Welland 
canal  alone  has  produced  a  revenue  of  S200,- 
000  a  year.     Well,  all  such  sources  of  income 
are  to  be  thrown  into  the  hands  of  the  Federal 
Government,  while  New  Brunswick  is  to  give 
us  a  railway  which  only  pays  three-eighths  of 
one  per  cent,  over  its  working  expenses.    This 
small  sum,  remember  too,  is  what  is  paid  now 
— two  or  three  years  after  the  construction  of 
the  line — but  when  the  rolling  stock  gets  out 
of  repair,  the  rails  want  renewing,  and  other 
matters  usual  after  a  railroad  has  been  some- 
time working  have  to  be  attended   to — the 
expense  of  the  line  to  the  Federal  Government 
will  constantly  increase.     The  road  will  be  a 
drag ;  and  I  say  to  hon.  gentlemen  that  we 
are  opening  an  account  without  knowing  when 
it  will  be  closed.     (Cheers.)     By  engaging  in 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
and  the  assumption  of  the  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia  lines,  we  are  entering  upon 
indefinite   liabilities — the   whole  being  non- 
paying  property  in  which  we  shall  find  a  heavy 
bill  of  expense.     (Hear,  hear.)     Then,  as  rf 
not  satisfied  with  this,  we  are  giving  a  sort  of 
Regium  domini  of  $QS, 000  for  ten  years  to  the 
Province  of  New  Brimswick.     Again,  we  are 
to  purchase   for  $160,000  a  year  the  mines 
and  minerals  and  Crown  lands  of  Newfound- 
land.    Now,  I  venture  to  say,  we  shall  not 
realize  $40,000  a  year  out  of  these  minerals 
and  Crown  lands.     We  have  a  large  mining 
country   ourselves,   which  we  find   no  very 
fertile  source  of  revenue,  and  though  it   is 
true   we  have   no   coal   in  Canada,   we   can 
get  that  from  Nova  Scotia  by  paying  an  export 
duty  and  the  cost  of  freight.     In  the  face  of 
these  disadvantages  we  are  entering  a  union 
which,  by  judicious  management,  might  have 
been  brought  about  without  involving  us  in 
this  immense  expense.     As  I  said  before,  I 
desire  to  sec  a  union,   but  I  want  to  see  it 
efiected  on  fair  terms.     (Hear,  hear.)     Now, 
in  regard   to   the  increased   trade  which  it 
is  said  we  are  likely  to  get  after  the  union 
is  effected,  I  think  there  will  be  much  disap- 
pointment.     It  strikes   me   that  it  will  be 
almost  impossible  to  alter  the  present  course 
of  trade,  except  by  imposing  duties  on  articles 
imported  from  other  countries.     The"  Inter- 
colonial Railway  will  be  too  long,  and  there- 


fore freight  by  it  will  be  too  expensive  to 
divert  trade,  unless  it  is  run  by  the  Govern- 
ment at  the  cost  of  the  country,  and  people 
are  allowed  to  carry  their  goods  almost  free  of 
charge.  It  can  hardly  be  expected  that  we 
shall  send  breadstuffs  over  this  railway.  Even 
now  it  is  not  pretended  that  the  railway  can 
bring  breadstuffs  down  as  far  as  Quebec. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— They  get  them  by  water 
in  the  autumn,  and«store  them  for  winter  use. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— They  will  be  able 
in  winter  time  to  get  their  supplies  cheaper  at 
St.  John  or  Halifax  by  water  than  by  the 
Intercolonial  Railroad.     If  they  are  to  buy 
our  produce,  there  must  be  some  pecuniary 
inducement,  for  they  will  not  give  us  half  a 
dollar  a  barrel  more  because  the  flour  comes 
from  Upper  Canada ;   and  what  that  induce- 
ment is  to  be  I  fail  to  understand,  unless  it 
be   the   effect  of  a  heavy   customs  duty   on 
foreign  breadstuffs.     As  the  channel  of  trade 
now  is,  the  Lower  Provinces  can  buy  their 
flour  cheaper  in  Boston  and  New  York  than 
in  Canada,  and  would  it  be  right  to  compel 
their  people  to  take  our  produce  at  a  greater 
cost  than  they  can  purchase  elsewhere  ?     It 
has  been  said  that  they  consume  8-4,000,000 
worth  of  breadstuffs  in  a  year,  and  many  other 
articles  that  might  be  produced  or  manufac- 
tured in  great  part  in  Canada,  and  is  it  likely 
the  60,000  fishermen  of  Nova  Scotia  and  New 
Brunswick  will  consent  to  have  a  duty  of  20 
per  cent.,  or  any  other  high  duty  imposed  on 
breadstuffs,  for   the  sole  purpose  of  driving 
them  out  of  the  American  and  into  the  Cana- 
dian markets  ?     (Hear,   hear.)     I   question 
whether  they  are  not  apprehening  a  difficulty 
of  this  kind  now,  and  on  that  account  unwil- 
ling to  accept  all  the  inducements  we  have 
held  out ;  unwilling  to  take  the  revenue  we 
have  offered  them ;  unwilling  to  yield  to  the 
temptations  put  before   them;  because   they 
are   afraid   of  the   imposition   of  duties  on 
breadstuffs,  to  which  they  would  be  liable  if 
they  were  to  place  themselves  in  the  power  of 
a  country  represented  by  so  large  a  vote  in  the 
General   Government  as   Canada  will  have. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Leaving  this  question  of  trade, 
we  come  to  the  consideration  of  the  constitu- 
tion of  this  House.    Now,  no  one  has  petitioned 
against  the  continuance  of  the  elective  system 
— no  one  has  complained  that  it  does  not  work 
satisfactorily.     We  do  not  see  that  many  of 
the  elected  members  are  so  very  much  inferior 
to  the  nominated  members  of  this  House — 
there  has  been  no  serious  ground  for  fearing  a 
dead-lock — ^yet   there  is  to  be  a  change  in 
the  constitution  of   the  Legislative  Council, 


166 


in  conformity,  we  are  told,  with  the  desire  of 
the  Lower  Provinces.  But  we  must  look  a 
little  further  than  this.  If  you  canvass  the 
views  of  the  honorable  gentlemen  who  repre- 
sented this  province  at  the  great  Confedera- 
tion meeting,  you  will  find  that  most  of  them 
were  inclined  beforehand  to  concur  in  the 
views  of  the  representatives  of  the  eastern 
provinces,  for  they  have  always  entertained 
views  in  opposition  to  the  elective  principle  as 
applied  to  this  House.  They  acted  quite  con- 
sistently, but  it  does  not  follow  that  they  are 
right  in  making  this  change.  We  know  that 
in  former  times,  when  our  Legislative  Council 
was  nominated  by  the  Crown,  difl&culties  did 
arise.  In  old  times,  bills  passed  by  the  As- 
sembly were  thrown  out  almost  by  the  hun- 
dred. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— That  was  before 
responsible  government  was  adopted. 

Hon.  Mr.  EEESOR— I  was  about  to  add 
that  it  was  before  the  introduction  of  respon- 
sible government,  and  that  responsible  gov- 
ernment is  a  cure  for  many  evils,  but  not  to 
such  an  extent  as  it  should  be.  But  under 
the  system  of  appointment  there  is  another 
evil — the  government  of  the  day  is  particular 
in  appointing  those  who  are  political  friends 
of  their  own,  and  have  aided  them  either 
at  elections  or  in  ways  which  may  not  be 
very  creditable.  (Laughter.)  My  honorable 
friend  (Hon.  Mr,  Crawford)  may  laugh, 
but  if  he  reflects  he  will  remember  that  he  has 
himself  known  men  in  high  positions  whose 
career  was  not  creditable  in  all  particulars. 
However  patriotic  and  anxious  to  discharge 
their  duties  rightly  they  might  be,  their  views 
were  sometimes  warped  by  circumstances. 
Looking  across  the  ocean,  my  honorable  friend 
will  remember  that  during  the  Administration 
of  William  Pitt,  who  wielded  almost  the 
sole  control  of  Parliament  in  England  for 
seventeen  years,  he  appointed,  during  this 
period,  1-40  members  to  the  House  of  Lords, 
subservient  to  his  own  wishes  and  intent  on 
carrying  out  his  views.  I  will  just  read  to 
this  House  a  short  extract  relating  to  him, 
written  by  a  man  capable  of  judging.  In 
May's  Conatitutioiml  History  we  read  : — 

When  Mr.  Pitt  had  been  eight  years  in  power 
he  had  created  between  sixty  and  seventy  Peers, 
the  greater  part  of  whom  owed  their  elevation  to 
the  parliamentary  support  they  had  themselves 
given  to  the  Ministry,  or  to  their  influence  in  re- 
turning members  to  the  House  of  Commons. 

Now,  when  motives  of  this  kind  can  be  at- 
tributed to  3Ir.  Pitt,  we  need  not  say  that 
similar  motives  may  prevail  here. 


Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Does  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  suppose  that  the  members  of 
this  House  will  owe  their  nomination  to  the 
political  services  they  can  render  in  this 
House  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BEESOR— Not  solely,  but 
rather  to  their  political  services  at  elections 
and  otherwise,  before  their  nomination.  The 
honorable  gentleman  will  remember  a  certain 
little  domestic  arrangement  he  made  on  the 
other  side  of  the  House,  while  in  opposition, 
in  which  he  had  many  warm  friends.  Does 
he  expect  to  forget  those  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  hope  not. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOll— Well,  there  it  is. 
The  honorable  gentleman  acknowledges  his 
determination  to  reward  his  political  support- 
ers. Is  this  the  way  to  obtain  an  independent 
branch  of  the  Legislature,  one  that  will  operate 
as  a  wholesome  check  on  hasty  legislation  ? 
Those  who  receive  favors  from  a  political  party 
are  not  likely  to  turn  their  backs  upon  that 
party.  I  think  we  are  not  likely,  under  any 
circumstances,  to  have  a  more  independent 
House  under  the  proposed  system  than  we 
now  have,  or  one  which  will  better  advance 
the  interests  of  the  country.  If  you  wish  to 
raise  the  elective  franchise,  for  elections  to 
the  Upper  House — if  you  would  confine  their 
election  to  voters  on  real  estate  of  S400  as- 
sessed value,  and  tenants  holding  a  lease-hold 
of  $100  annual  value,  and  thus  place  these 
elections  out  of  the  reach  of  a  mere  money  in- 
fluence that  may  sometimes  operate  upon  the 
masses — if  you  think  this  body  is  not  suffi- 
ciently conservative — let  them  be  elected  by  a 
more  conservative  portion  of  the  community — 
that  portion  which  has  the  greatest  stake  in 
the  community — but  do  not  strike  out  the 
elective  principle  altogether.  The  late  Duke 
of  Newcastle,  than  whom  few  British  states- 
men have  had  more  to  do  in  establishing  new 
and  liberal  constitutions  in  the  various  colonies 
in  the  Empire,  and  whose  opinions  are  very 
valuable  on  this  point,  wrote  as  follows  to  the 
Governor  of  Prince  Edward  Island,  on  the 
4th  of  February,  18G2:— 

Nor  do  I  think  it  any  way  objectionable,  but 
the  contrary,  that  the  Council  (as  in  Canada, 
Victoria,  South  Australia  and  Tasmania)  he  in- 
capable of  being  dissolved  by  the  (Jovernor.  Au 
Upnor  Chamber  is  valuable  as  an  clement  of  sta- 
bility, and  the  principal  value  of  an  elective  Up- 
per Chamber  I  conceive  to  bo  this, — that  while 
in  virtue  of  its  elective  character,  it  may  claim 
equally  with  the  Assembly  to  speak  the  voice  of 
the  t'ommunity,  it  may  yet  be  so  composed  as  to 
reflect  their  settled  wishes  and  i>riuciplcs  rather 


167 


than  theii"  transitory  impulses.  But  tliis  advan- 
tage would  be  wholly  lost  if  the  whole  body  were 
chosen  or  could  be  removed  under  the  influence 
of  such  an  impulse.  The  first  of  these  dangers 
is  obviated  (or  intended  to  be  so)  by  providing 
that  half  only  of  the  Council  shall  be  elected  at 
one  time.  The  second,  by  giving  to  each  Coun- 
cillor a  fixed  tenure  of  office,  independent  of  any 
popular  or  govermental  influence. 

Thus,  it  will  be  seen,  lie  would  place  the 
Council  out  of  the  reach  of  Government, 
while  they  should  be  under  the  influence  of 
the  settled  convictions  of  the  people  and  not 
their  mere  transitory  impulse.  He  would  have 
them  elected  by  a  conservative  body  of  elec- 
tors. The  next  clause  of  the  instructions 
runs  thus : — 

In  Prince  Edward  Island,  I  would  enforce  a 
tolerably  high  property  qualification  in  the  case 
of  the  electors,  but  of  the  candidate  I  would  only 
require  that  he  should  be  a  British  subject,  resi- 
dent in  the  colony,  and  thirty  years  of  age. 

This,  I  think,  would  he  a  wise  provision  here, 
because  it  would  give  the  electors  an  oppor- 
tunity, which  they  do  not  now  possess,  of  se- 
lecting their  candidates  from  any  part  of  the 
country,  so  that  they  could  choose  the  ablest 
and  most  trustworthy  men  in  it,  and  being 
elected  by  a  class  who  had  a  deep  interest  in 
the  country,  you  might  rely  on  their  not  being 
too  vacillating,  but  on  their  proving  a  proper, 
healthy  and  valuable  check  on  the  lower 
branch  of  the  Legislature.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Some  honorable  gentlemen  have  urged  that 
the  people  should  not  elect  their  representa- 
tives to  the  Upper  House,  because  it  involves 
a  very  great  expense  on  the  part  of  the  elect- 
ed, and  because  they  cannot  judge  who  is 
worthy  of  their  confidence  so  well  as  the  Gov- 
ernment of  the  day.  Now,  I  argue  that  if 
the  people  are  unfit  to  choose  members  of  this 
House,  they  are  unfit  to  choose  members  of 
the  other  House  too.  If  three  counties  united 
are  not  able  to  make  a  good  selection,  how 
can  one-third  part  of  that  constituency  make 
a  good  one  ?  And  with  regard  to  the  corrupt 
influences  that  may  be  brought  to  bear,  will  it 
be  for  a  moment  said  that  a  large  constit- 
uency of  three  counties  can  be  as  easily  cor- 
rupted as  a  constituency  composed  of  only  one 
county  ?  I  think  not.  I  think  a  more  inde- 
pendent vote  is  brought  to  bear  on  the  elec- 
tion of  a  member  of  the  Upper  House  than  of 
the  Lower.  Yet  the  members  of  the  Lower 
House  want  to  assume  the  power  of  dictating 
who  shall  compose  the  Legislative  Council. 
A  few  years  ago,  at  the  general  elections, 
when   two   men  were  running,  though  they 


were  both  conservative,  we  always  found  one 
taking  the  ground  that  no  money  should  be 
spent  by  the  Government  of  the  day  without 
the  consent  of  Parliament,  and  all  the  liberal 
party,  without  exception,  took  that  view ;  yet 
now  we  find  that  as  some  of  these  men  have 
got  into  the  Government  they  have  unlimited 
confidence  in  the  wisdom  of  the  Executive ; 
they  say  our  very  Constitution  can  be  amend- 
ed within  a  period  of  six  months  without  the 
people  having  anything  to  say  about  it ;  they 
now  think  governments  can  do  no  wrong.  Of 
course,  this  is  in  accordance  with  human  nature 
— what  they  themselves  do  must  be  right; 
they  themselves  can  do  no  wrong.  (Hear, 
hear.)  To  sum  up,  honorable  gentlemen,  I 
complain  that  this  arrangement  for  bringing 
about  the  Confederation  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces  is  being  made  on  terms 
of  great  disadvantage  to  Canada,  that  a  fair 
agTeement  has  not  been  settled  upon  as  be- 
tween the  several  colonies.  I  complain  that 
in  making  such  an  arrangement  with  the 
other  provinces,  the  constitution  of  this 
House  should  have  been  interfered  with  ;  and 
I  complain,  finally,  of  the  manner  in  which 
the  whole  measure  is  being  forced  through 
the  Legislature,  without  first  being  submit- 
ted to  the  people  for  their  sanction;  and  I 
cannot  but  feel  that  these  proposed  changes 
so  rashly  adopted,  carry  with  them  the 
seeds  of  their  early  dissolution — a  result 
that  all  should  regret  who  desire  the  perma- 
nent consolidation  and  well-being  of  these  col- 
onies.    (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA— Honorable  gentle- 
men, so  much  has  already  been  said  on  the 
subject  of  the  Confederation  of  the  British 
American  Provinces  during  the  course  of  this 
debate,  which  has  now  occupied  the  House 
for  several  days,  both  here  and  in  the  Assem- 
bly, by  the  ablest  men  in  the  province,  that  I 
do  not  hope  to  add  anything  of  great  weight 
or  importance  to  wl\at  has  been  urged  on  the 
question  now  submitted  to  our  consideration  ; 
still,  I  feel  that  I  should  neither  do  justice  to 
my  constituents,  who  have  sent  me  here,  nor 
to  myself,  if  I  do  not  upon  this  occasion 
state,  with  what  force  I  may,  the  reasons  which 
induced  me  to  give  my  hearty  approval  to  this 
measure  for  the  Confederation  of  all  these  pro- 
vinces under  one  government,  upon  the  basis 
of  these  resolutions  which  Ministers  have  laid 
upon  the  table  of  this  House.  Very  much 
has  been  said,  by  almost  every  speaker  who 
has  preceded  me,  upon  the  importance  of  the 
subject  now  before  us,  and  the  consequent 
reeponsibility  which  attaches  itself  to  every 


168 


individual  member  of  this  Honorable  House 
for  the  course  which  he  may  adopt.     I  quite 
concur   with  honorable  gentlemen   that   the 
present  juncture  in  our  affairs  is  big  with  the 
future  destiny  of  our  country,  and  that  our 
fate  for  weal  or  woe  depends  upon  the  course 
we  shall  now  pursue,  and  I,  for  one,  feel  not 
the  slightest  desire  to  shift  one  single  atom  of 
the  burthen  of  that  responsibility  from  my 
shoulders.     I  am  fully  prepared  to  assume  it 
at  once  upon  the  merits  of  the  scheme  as  it  is 
evolved  in  these  resolutions,  and   I  do  not 
wish  to  shield  myself  behind  either  an  ad- 
journment, such  as  has  been  proposed  by  my 
honorable  friend  the  member  for  the  division 
of  King,  and  which,  I  am  glad  to  say,  has 
just  been  rejected  by  an  unmistakable  vote  of 
this  House,  or  the  larger  motion,  of  which  my 
honorable  friend  from  Niagara  has  given  no- 
tice, for  an  appeal  to  the  people,  and  to  which 
I  shall  presently  again  refer.     An  objection 
has   been  taken  in  limine  by  the  honorable 
member  from  Niagara  to  the  constitution  of 
the  Conference  which  sat  at  Quebec,  that  they 
were,  in  the  first  place,  self-appointed ;  and,  in 
the  second  place,  that  the  great  principle  of 
representation  based  upon  population  was  not 
carried  out,  because  although  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces possessed  each,  and  even  collectively, 
a  much  smaller  population  than  Canada,  yet 
they  had  a  much  larger  number  of  members 
in  the  Congress  than  we  had.     As  to  the  first 
objection,  of  their  being  self-appointed  or  self- 
constituted,  some  one  had  to  take  the  initia- 
tive in  the  matter,  and  no  one  had  better  au- 
thority than  the  different  governments  to  say 
who   should  represent   their  respective   pro- 
vinces in  the  Conference.  Will  honorable  gen- 
tlemen contend  that  the  delegates  were  self- 
appointed  when  they  were  appointed  by  the 
Ministry  of  the  day,  who  arc  responsible  to 
the  Legislative  Assembly,  which,  in  its  turn, 
is  responsible  to  the  people  at  large  ?     Then, 
as  to  the  second  objection,  that  the  numbers 
were  unequal,  the  honorable  gentleman  ought 
to  know  that  the  principle  of  representation 
by  population  does  not  apply  to  the  Confer- 
ence in  the  same  way  that  it  does  to  the  re- 
presentation in  this  and  the  other  House  of 
Parliament.     Here  the  vote  of  every  individ- 
ual member  counts  upon  a  division  on  any 
question,    and    so   numbers  become   of  the 
utmost  importance.     But  in  the  Conference 
the  votes  were  counted  by  provinces,  and  not 
by  single  votes,  so  that  it  was  impossible  tliat 
any  one  province  could  be  swamped  by  the 
others  by  reason  of  their  having  a  larger  re- 
presentation.    The  only  effect  of  an  undue 


representation  from  any  province  would  be  to 
increase  the  difficulty  the  delegates  from  that 
one  would  have  in  agreeing  among  themselves 
to  any  single  proposition,  or  to  the  proposi- 
tions as  a  whole,'  and  it  could  not,  in  any 
way,  work   any  injustice  to   the   other  pro- 
vinces.   I  have  no  doubt  the  Conference  found 
their  greatest  difficulty  in  bringing  the  mem- 
bers of  each  section  to  agree  among  them- 
selves.     (Hear,   hear,   from  the   Hon.   Mr. 
Campbell.)      If   the   delegates  from    any 
province   felt  that  they  could  not  agree  to 
any  of    the   questions   submitted   to    them, 
they  had  but  to  say  so,  and  the  scheme  of 
Confederation,  so  far  as  they  were  concerned, 
would  have  been  at  an  end.     The  argument 
of  unfair  representation  is,  therefore,  quite 
fallacious.     There  could  really  be  no  danger 
from  the  number  of  representatives  not  being 
in  proportion,  so  long  as  each  province  had 
the  power  of  protecting  itself  from  any  injus- 
tice which  might  be  attempted  to  be  perpe- 
trated against  it  by  the  others.    (Hear,  hear.) 
It  has  also  been  objected  that  the  present  Ca- 
nadian Administration  was  formed  upon  the 
avowed  policy  of  forming  a  Federal   union 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  only,  and 
that  the  Government  has  exceeded  their  con- 
stitutional powers  by  substituting  an  union  of 
all  the  provinces  instead  of  what  they  had 
promised.     Do  we  not  all  remember  that  the 
avowed  policy  of  the  Government  was  a  Fed- 
eral union  of  these  provinces,  I  mean  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada  first,  leaving  it  open  to 
the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  colonics  of 
the  great  west  to  fall  into  the  union  when- 
ever they  might  find  it  their  interest  to  do 
so  ?     Ministers,  no  doubt,  had  not  the  slight- 
est idea  that  the  larger  scheme  could  be  ac- 
complished as  soon  if  not  sooner  than   the 
'  smaller  one.     I  told  my  constituents,  on  com- 
ing before  thera  for  re-election,  that  there  was 
Van  urgent  necessity  for  a  dift'erent  union  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada  from  that 
which  now  exists,  and  that  there  was  not  time 
to  include  the  Lower  Provinces  in  the  first 
scheme.     But  the  movement  has  outrun  my 
expectation,    and    I    believe   that   of   every 
member  of  the  House.     And  is  the  House  to 
reject  the  larger  scheme  when  it  is  the  easiest 
of  accomplishment,  simply  because  it  liad  a 
secondary  place  in  the  ministerial  progranmie  ? 
I  think  the  Charlottetown  Conlorcnce  was  a 
good  opportunity,  and  that  tlio  Government 
has  acted  wisely  in  putting  themselves  in  com- 
munication witli  it,   and  in    taking   up   the 
whole  union  first.     But  the  honorable  mem- 
ber from  the  Wellington  Division  complains 


169 


that  sufficient  time  has  not  been  given  to  the 
consideration  of  the  resolutions  by  the  Con- 
ference, and  cites  the  case  of  the  American 
Constitution,  when  its  framers  took,  I  (Hon. 
Mr.  McCrea)  know  not  how  many  months 
longer  than  our  own  Conference.  But  the 
honorable  member  shoidd  recollect  that  we 
had  all  their  experience.  We  could  com- 
mence where  they  left  oflF.  Their  work  was 
ready  to  our  hands.  We  had  also  the  ex- 
perience of  the  working  of  their  Constitu- 
tion, and  knew  what  to  avoid.  Besides,  the 
honorable  member  should  recollect  that  we 
live  in  an  age  of  railroads  and  liarhtninor  tel- 
egraphs,  of  which  the  revolutionary  fathers 
knew  nothing;  and  there  is  no  doubt  that 
speed  in  travelling  and  communication  has  a 
great  deal  to  do  in  quickening  the  perceptions  of 
mankind.  Instead  of  its  being  made  a  ground  of 
accusation  against  the  Government  that  they 
have  accomplished  so  much  in  so  short  a  time,  it 
ought  rather  to  redound  to  their  credit.  And  yet 
the  honorable  member  for  the  Niagara  Division 
complains  that  the  measure  was  not  infallible. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  did  not  make  that 
complaint. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA— Well,  the  hon.  gentle- 
man said  that  it  ought  to  have  been  "  as  infal- 
lible as  fjillible  men  could  make  it,"  and  that 
''  it  should  do  complete  justice  to  all  and  injus- 
tice to  none."  I  took  down  the  exact  words  of 
the  honorable  gentleman  at  the  time,  and  if 
the  last  words  do  not  imply  infallibility,  they 
certainly  come  very  near  it.  I  venture  to 
assert  that  if  the  honorable  gentleman  were 
employed  to  draw  up  a  simple  document  of  a 
few  pages,  without  the  interference  of  any  one 
to  control  him,  and  should  refer  it  to  the 
revision  of  any  competent  person,  it  would 
be  found  subject  to  some  criticism.  How 
much  less  then  must  we  expect  a  State  docu- 
ment like  this,  the  work  of  so  many  hands — 
where  so  many  conflicting  elements  were  to  be 
reconciled — where  so  much  had  to  be  insisted 
upon  ou  one  side  and  resisted  on  the  other — 
should  do  complete  justice  to  all  and  injustice  to 
none,  according  to  the  notions  of  my  honor- 
able friend  from  Niagara  ?  The  wonder  is, 
not  that  some  fault  can  be  found,  but  that  the 
opponents  of  the  measure  can  find  so  little. 
But  it  is  a  little  sinojular  that  all  the  srentlemen 
who  have  yet  spoken  against  the  resolutions 
of  the  Conference  have  declared  themselves 
in  favor  of  Confederation,  and  yet,  by  their 
motions  and  their  speeches,  they  are  doing 
everything  in  their  power  to  delay  and  embar- 
rass the  measure — certainly  a  very  leftrhanded 
way  of  shewing  their  support.  Honorable 
23 


members  argue  against  the  details  from  both 
a  Canadian  and  the  Maritime  point  of  view, 
and  still  tell  us  they  are  favorable  to  Con- 
federation.    Some  honorable  members  declare 
that   the  question  is  not  opposed  in  Upper 
Canada  because  it  is  not  understood.     It  is 
certainly  paying  a  very  poor   compliment  to 
the  inteUisjence  of  their  constituents.     The 
question   has   been   propounded  by   eminent 
statesmen  both  in  the  old  country  and  on  this 
side  of  the  Atlantic  both  time  and  again  since 
the   commencement  of  the   present   century, 
and  has  been  in  the  minds  of  the  people  ever 
since.     The  reason  why  it  has  not  been  con- 
summated ,is  that  no  opportunity   has   ever 
presented  itself  like  the  present.     It  had  but 
to  be  mentioned  to  take  complete  possession  of 
the  minds  of  the   people.     Out  of  thirteen 
elections  for  both  branches  of  the  Legislature 
which   have    taken   place   in  Upper    Canada 
since  the  scheme  of  union  has  been  proposed, 
every  single  one,  with  but  one  exception,  has 
resulted  in  its  favor;  and  out  of  six  elections 
for  members  of  this  House,   whose   original 
term   of  office  had   expired,   four,  my   own 
among  the  number,  I  am  glad  to  say,  were  by 
acclamation — I  believe  chiefly  on  account  of 
their    declared    sentiments   in   favor   of  the 
scheme.       But   it   is  a  little   inconsistent,  I 
cannot  help  saying,  that  at  the  same  time  some 
honorable   gentlemen  complain  of  the  ignor- 
ance of  Upper  Canada  on  the   details  of  the 
measure — by  their  votes  the  other  day  they 
refused  to  allow  five  hundred  extra  copies  of  the 
resolutions  to  be  printed  for  the  use  of  mem- 
bers, that  they  might  distribute  them  among 
their  constituents,  proclaiming  their  ignorance, 
and  yet  withholding  the  means  of  information. 
But  honorable  gentlemen  attempt  to  frighten 
us    with  the   expenses   of  the   Intercolonial 
Railway  ;  and    my    honorable    friend    from 
Niagara,  arguing  from  the  eastern  provincial 
point  of  view,  declared  they  would  remember 
the  Grand  Trunk  frauds,  and  avoid  a  union 
with  those  who  had  perpetrated  them.     The 
Grand  Trunk  used  to  be  made  an  excellent 
stalking  horse  for  gentlemen  to  ride  into  Par- 
Uament  upon,  and  so  pleased  have  honorable 
members  become  with  the  seat,  that  even  after 
having  arrived  here,  they  find  it  very  difficult 
to  dismount.      My  honorable  friend  from  the 
division  of  King,  has  just  now  told  us  that 
we  Upper  Canadians,  by  the  scheme  proposed 
by  Ministers,  will  be  compelled   to  pay   ten- 
twelfths   the   cost   of  the   railway.     Well,  I 
thought    I  had  read  the   resolutions  with   a 
great  deal  of  care,  and  I  did  not  remember 
anything  which  said  a  single  word  about  the 


170 


proportionate  expense,  or  about  the  expense  at 
all.  But,  thinking  I  might  be  mistaken,  I 
have  taken  the  trouble  to  turn  them  up,  and 
find  there  is  not  one  word  in  them  about  the 
railway  except  the  following.  It  will  be 
found  in  the  sixty-eighth  resolution,  and  reads 
thus  : — "  The  General  Government  shall  secure 
without  delay  the  completion  of  the  Interco- 
lonial Railway,  from  Kiviere  du  Loup  through 
New  Brunswick  to  Truro,  in  Nova  Scotia." 
Is  there  anything  here  about  Upper  Canada 
having  to  pay  teu-twelfths  of  the  expense  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BEESOR  said  he  had  not  de- 
clared that  by  the  resolutions  Upper  Canada 
should  pay  ten-twelfths,  but  that  upon  calcu- 
lation, taking  into  account  nuijubers  and  reve- 
nue, that  would  be  the  effect. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA— Well,  I  take  the 
honorable  gentleman's  explanation.  Does  he 
wish  to  enter  into  a  compact  with  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  by  which  we  shall  not  pay  our 
fair  proportion  of  our  expenses  according  to 
our  numbers  and  our  means  ?  Is  he  so  unjust 
as  to  ask  so  unfair  an  advantage?  The  fact  is, 
that  the  talk  about  the  expenses  and  stringing 
together  long  rows  of  figures,  is  only  calcu- 
lated to  bewilder  and  frighten  the  friends  of 
the  scheme.  Three  millions  of  dollars  a  year, 
exclaims  the  member  for  Niagara,  without 
making  it  very  plain  how,  will  be  added  to  our 
expense  for  all  time  to  come. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— More  than  that. 
Hon.  Mr.  McCREA — More  than  that. 
Well,  what  of  that  ?  The  amount  of  debt  is 
nothing  to  him  who  has  the  means  and  is  wil- 
ling to  pay.  It  is  only  unpleasant  to  the 
bankrupt  who  cannot  pay,  and  to  the  miser 
who  hates  to  part  with  his  gold.  Some  one  has 
said  that  it  was  a  very  great  drawback  to  the 
morals  and  prosperity  of  London,  that  there 
ehould  be  fifty-thousand  thieves  within  its 
walls.  But  it  was  well  replied,  that  it  was 
rather  a  source  of  congratulation  that  the 
metropolis  should  be  able  to  support  so  many. 
So  instead  of  regi'ettiug  that  we  shall  have 
so  much  to  pay,  we  ought  rather  to  rejoice 
that  we  shall  be  able  to  pay  it.  Instead  of 
complaining  that  in  the  construction  of  the 
railway,  we  shall  have  to  pay  ten-twelfths, 
according  to  the  estiiuate  of  my  honorable 
friend  from  the  division  of  King,  it  ought  to 
be  ratlicr  a  source  of  pride  and  satisfaction 
to  us  that  we  have  a  large  population  and 
greater  resources  than  our  eastern  neighbors. 
1  am  as  much  opposed  to  needless  and  extra- 
vagaut  expenditures  iis  any  member  of  this 
honorable  House,  but  if  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  has   become  a   necessity,    we  must 


not  be  afraid  to  undertake  it.     I   am   free 
to    admit   there   was    much    needless    waste 
and  expenditure  in  the  construction  of  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway,  but  I  question  whether 
there  is   a  single  honorable  member  of  this 
House  who  would  to-day,  if  he  could,  place 
us  back  where  we  were  before  the  first  sod 
was   turned   in   that   great   undertaking.     If 
war  be  imminent  between  us  and  the  United 
States,  and  actually  ensues,  the  railway  will 
become  an  absolute  military  necessity.     And 
who  can  tell  but  that,   at  any  moment,   the 
turning    of   a    hand,    looking    at    what   has 
already  happened,  we  may  not  be  launched 
into  the  very  midst  of  a  war.     It  is,  I  be- 
lieve, very  well  known,  that  as  soon  as  it  was 
learned  in  Washington  that  the  St.  Alban's 
raiders  had  escaped  through  the  bungling  and 
incompetency,   to  say  the  least  of  it,  of  the     - 
Montreal   officials,   the   first    order    of    Mr.    ^ 
Seward  was  one  of  non-intercourse,  but  it 
was  afterwards  modified  to  the  passport  sys-    j 
tern.   What,  honorable  gentlemen,  would  have    1 
been  our  situation  had  that  order  been  sent 
out,  and  what  guarantee  have  we  that  it  may 
not  be  sent  out  at  any  moment  ?     But  my 
honorable  friend  from  Niagara  says  that  the 
union    of  these  provinces  would  not  tend  to 
strengthen  our  means  of  defence  if,  unfortu- 
nately, we  should  be  invaded  by  the  United 
States  forces,  because  our  frontier  would  be 
extended  more  than  in  proportion  to  the  in- 
crease of  our  numbers.     Does  not  every  one 
know  that  it  is  the  settled  conviction  of  the 
military  authorities  of  the  States   that  their 
mistake  in  the  last  war  was  invading  these 
provinces  in  different  places  at  the  same  time, 
and  that,  in  the  event  of  a  second  war,  their 
policy  will  be  to  concentrate  all  their  strength 
on  some  one  given  point — Montreal  for  in- 
stance ?     And  will  my  honorable  friend  con- 
tend that  the  union  and  the  railway  will  not 
enable  us  to  concentrate  a  greater  force,  and 
more  rapidly,  on  whatever  point  danger  may 
be    threatened,   and   also  that   they  will  not 
enable    us    to   obtain    aid   from   the    British 
troops  more  quickly  at   any   season    of  the 
year?     Then,  as  to  the  commercial  necessity 
of  the  railway,  it  does  seem  to  me  plain  that 
when  our  own  Grand  Trunk  has  a  connection 
with  Halifax  ;  when  the    Cunaid    and  other 
steamers  will  discharge  their  valuable  freiglit 
and    their    passengers    destined    ibr    the    I'ar 
west    at    Halifax;    when    Toronto    will    be 
brought,  in  point  of  time,  as  near  to  London 
and  Liverpool  as  New  York  ;  it  must  not  only 
increase  the  businesi  of  the  Grand   Trunk, 
but  also  the  business  of  the  railways  in  N  iva 


171 


Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  which  are  to  be 
made  the  property  of  the   General  Govern- 
ment.     When  the  connection  becomes  com- 
.  plete  there  must  be  a  mutual  advantage  to  all. 
I  believe  the  child  is  now  bom  in  Canada  who 
will  live  not  only  to  see  an  Intercolonial  but  an 
Interocciinic  Railway,  if  this  scheme  of  union 
shall  be  honestly  and  fairly  carried  out.     The 
necessity  of  the  railway  has  time  and   again 
been  admitted  by  the  several  governments  of 
these  provinces,  but,  owing  to  a  want  of  some 
power  to  control  all,  and  a  natural  jealousy  of 
each  other,  together  with  our  own  poUtical 
differences,  the  scheme  for  its  construction  has 
always  fallen   through.     When   visiting   the 
Maritime  Provinces  last  summer,  I  told  our 
friends  there  that  the  railway  could  only  be 
had  by    a  union — the   union   first,    and   the 
railway  was  sure  to  follow.     I  come  now  to 
consider  the     amendment   of  my    honorable 
friend  from  the  Wellington  Division,  and  to 
which,  according  to  the  strict  rules  of  debate, 
this  discussion  should  have  been  confined ;  but 
I  have   taken  the   same  course  as  honorable 
gentlemen  who  have  preceded  me  have  done, 
namely,  to  consider  the  whole  scheme.     The 
amendment  brings  up  the  question  of  members 
being   appointed  for  life  by  the  Crown,  or 
elected  for  a  term  of  years  by  the  people.     I 
am    among   those  of  the  reform   party   who 
think  that  making  the  members  of  this  House 
elective  was  a  step  in  the  wrong  direction; 
and  though  I  am  free  to  admit  that  but  for 
the  elective  principle  having  been  applied  to 
this  House,  I  should  never  have  had  the  honor 
of  a  seat  within  its  walls,  yet  I  am  prepared  to 
re-affirm   that   opinion   on  the   floor   of  this 
House  by  my  voting,  as  I  shall  do,   against 
this  amendment  of  my  honorable  friend  from 
Wellington,  and  to  sanction  a  return  to   the 
nomination  of  members  for  life  by  the  Crown, 
under  the  advice  of  Ministers  responsible  to 
the  people  through  the  Legislative  Assembly. 
I   deny   that   the   extension   of  the   elective 
principle  to  this  House  was  ever  sought  for, 
or  petitioned  for  by  the  people  at  the  tiu.e  of 
its  consummation.     It  is  quite  true,  honorable 
gentlemen,  that   before  the   union  of  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada,    and  during   the   palmy 
days  of  the  Family  Compact  and  the  irrespon- 
sibility of  the  Government,  when  the  Assembly 
had  no  control  over  the  Executive,  except  by 
stopping  the  supplies,  the  Legislative  Council 
was  chosen  for  the  mere  purpose  of  opposing 
the  public  will,  and  they  did  it  most  effectually. 
Every  measure  calculated  to  elevate  the  people 
and  promote  their  best  interests  was  sure  to 
be  tomahawked,  as  the  phrase  went,  by  that 


very  obstructive  body.     Short-sighted  politi- 
cians of  those  days,   who  did  not  very   well 
understand  the  working  of  the  British  Consti- 
tution, fancied  the  only  remedy  was  by  making 
this   House   elective.       But   the   memorable 
resolutions  of  the  3rd    September,  1841,  at 
Kingston,  established  the  true  British  principle 
of  responsible   government,    and  I  maintain 
that  since  that  time  the  people  never  demanded 
that  this  House  should  be  made  elective.     I 
apprehend  that  my  conservative  friends  and  I, 
who  agree  with  each  other  on  this  point — the 
nomination  of  members  to  this  House — come 
to   the  same   conclusion   by  a  very  different 
process  of  reasoning.     They   hold   that   the 
elective   principle   applied  to  this  branch  of 
Parliament    gives   too   much    power   to   the 
people,  while  I,  on  the  other  hand,  argue  that 
they  have  not  by  it  as  quick  and  as  sharp  a 
remedy  against  a  stubborn  Council  as  they  had 
under  the  system  of  nomination.     The  great 
beauty  of  the  old  system  was  the  promptness 
with  which  at  the  critical  moment  it  could  be 
brought  to  bear,  and  the  history  of  its  opera- 
tions, both  in  this  country  and  in  England, 
clearly  shews  its  superiority.     My  honorable 
friend  from  the  division  of  King  has  cited  the 
case  of  the  greatest  commoner  of  England, 
the  celebrated   William  Pitt,   having   ap- 
pointed so  many  members  to  the  House  of 
Lords   within    the   first   few   months   of  his 
ministerial    career.     Did   not   Pitt    at   that 
time  command  the  confidence  of  the  people  of 
England?      Does   not   my   honorable   friend 
know,  if  he  has  read  the  history  of  those  times, 
that  this  great  statesman  steadily  refused  to 
accept  office  until  he  saw  that  public  opinion 
was  ripe  for  his  schemes  ?     And  was  not  Pitt, 
at  the   commencement  of  his   parliamentary 
career,   the  great  advocate  of  parUamentary 
reform  ?     It  is  true  that  subsequent  causes, 
over   which  he  had   no  control,    led  him  to 
pursue  a  very  different  course.     What  if  at 
the  times  of  the  achievements  by  the  people 
of  those  two  great  victories  of  civil  and  reli- 
gious liberty   in  England,  I   mean    Catholic 
emancipation  and  the  passage  of  the  Reform 
Bill,  the  Crown,  through  its  ministers  respon- 
sible to   the   House   of  Commons    and   the 
English  nation,  had  not  had  power  to  coerce 
the    Lords     into    consent,     but     had     been 
obliged  to  wait  for  two  years  for  the  doubt- 
ful  ispue   of  a  certain  number  of  elections. 
Such  have  been  my  opinions  with  regard   to 
the  comparative  merits  of  the  nominative  and 
elective  principles  as  applied  to  this  House, 
and  I  have   not   hesitated   to   express  them 
among  my  constituents,  both  before  and  since 


172 


they  honored  me  with  this  seat.  I  admit  that 
the  proposed  system  is  not  the  same  as  the  old 
one,  because  it  limits  the  numbers,  and  to  this 
limitation  I  have  the  most  serious  objections ; 
but  I  am  not  going  to  hazard  the  success  of 
the  union  scheme,  as  I  sincerely  believe  I 
would,  by  voting  for  the  amendment,  but  I 
shall  take  it  as  it  is,  with  the  hope  and  belief 
that  in  the  new  Parliament,  when  the  union  is 
consummated,  the  constitution  of  this  House 
may  be  set  right.  Honorable  gentlemen  seem  to 
talk  as  if  this  scheme  and  the  Imperial  Act  to  be 
founded  upon  it,  are  finalities.  I  do  not  look 
upon  any  human  act  as  a  finality,  and  I  have 
no  doubt  a  way  will  be  found  by  which  this 
amendment  may  be  made.  Was  not  the  Consti- 
tutional Act  of  1840  amended  ?  And  will 
honorable  gentlemen  tell  us  that  the  act  to  be 
founded  upon  these  resolutions  cannot  be 
amended  in  the  same  way  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  LBTELLIER— Will  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  tell  us  how  the  Act  of  1840 
was  amended  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA— Does  the  honorable 
member  from  Grandville  not  remember  the 
increase  of  members  in  the  representation  of 
the  other  House,  in  1853,  and  the  amendment 
of  the  constitution  of  this  House  in  1856, 
the  very  question  I  am  now  debating  ?  Surely 
these  measures  were  amendments  of  that  act, 
and  who  knows  but  under  the  new  Constitu- 
tional Act — the  favorite  measure  of  my  honor- 
able friend — the  election  of  members  of  this 
House,  may  not  again  be  resorted  to,  if  the 
nominative  principle  shall  not  be  found  to  work 
well  ?  But  let  us  examine  for  a  moment  what 
the  amendment  of  my  honorable  friend  from 
Wellington  is  intended  to  effect.  It  will  be 
seen  by  referring  to  the  amendment  itself,  that 
the  honorable  gentleman  proposes  that  the 
members  of  this  House  from  Canada  and  from* 
the  Maritime  Provinces  shall  have  a  different 
origin  or,  as  it  were,  a  different  parentage, 
elected  by  the  people  with  us,  and  appointed 
by  the  Crown  from  the  eastern  provinces.  I 
take  it  that  it  is  very  desirable  that  in  what- 
ever way  the  members  of  this  House  may 
be  chosen,  there  should  be  uniformity  in  the 
system.  By  the  honorable  gentleman's  plan  we 
shall  have  one-third  of  the  members  from 
below  representing  the  Crown,  and  two-thirds 
from  above,  representing  the  people ;  a  curious 
sort  of  incongruity  which  I  think  should  by 
all  means  bo  avoided.  I  may  be  answered 
that  our  present  House  is  constituted  in  that 
very  way  ;  but  honorable  gentlemen  must  re- 
member that  the  life  members  are  not  the 
»ol«  rcprcBentatives  of  any  particular  section 


of  the  province,  but  are  chosen  indiscrimin- 
ately from  all  parts  of  the  province.  This  is 
not  likely  to  leac^  to  a  sectional  collision  like 
the  scheme  of  my  honorable  friend,  and  be 
sides  that,  the  appointment  of  life  members 
in  this  House  is  not  to  be  continued  after  the 
seats  of  the  present  members  shall  have  be- 
come vacant  from  any  cause  whatever.  I 
think  the  scheme  of  my  honorable  friend  the 
most  objectionable  of  all.  The  honorable 
member  from  Niagara  has  given  us  notice 
that  he  intends  to  move  a  resolution  to  the 
House  that  this  question  shall  be  delayed 
until  an  appeal  shall  be  had  to  the  people — 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman is  quite  mistaken.  I  have  given  notice 
of  no  such  motion. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA — What  notice  have 
you  given  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — If  you  read  it  you 
will  see. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA — Will  you  give  it  to 
me  that  I  may  see  what  it  really  is  ?  [Upon 
being  handed  the  notice  by  the  Hon.  .>ir. 
CuRRiE,  the  Hon.  Mr.  McCrea  proceeded.] 
Ah !  Here  it  is  !  It  reads  as  follows  : — 

That  upon  a  measure  of  such  great  importance 
as  the  proposed  Confederation  of  this  and  certain 
other  British  colonies,  this  House  is  unwilling  to 
assume  the  responsibility  of  assenting  to  a  meas- 
ure involving  so  many  important  considerations 
without  a  further  manifestation  of  the  public  will 
than  has  yet  been  declared. 

How  is  the  honorable  gentleman  to  get  this 
manifestation  of  the  public  will  unless  it  be 
through  a  dissolution  of  the  other  House  and 
a  new  election  ?  Surely  the  honorable  gentle- 
man does  not  mean  to  shelter  himself  from 
the  legitimate  consequences  of  his  resolution 
by  its  technical  phraseology.  It  certainly 
comes  with  a  very  bad  grace  and  taste  trom 
any  member  of  this  House  to  propo.se  a  dis- 
solution of  Parliament  and  send  the  members 
of  the  Assembly  packing  to  their  constituent* 
to  undergo  the  wear,  tear,  expenses  and  tur- 
moil of  an  election,  while  we  can  sit  here 
firmly  in  our  seats,  and  with  folded  hands 
look  quietly  on.  As  to  the  true  state  of  public 
opinion  upon  this  important  subject  in  this 
province,  it  will  be  time  enough  to  consider 
it,  when  my  honorable  friend  from  Niagara 
comes  to  press  his  resolution.  If  our  own 
political  situation  required  a  remedy,  I  think 
this  union  is  an  excellent  opportunity,  but  I 
do  not  mean  to  urge  that  our  own  political 
exigency  should  bo  the  only  reason  for  the 
union.  We  should  settle  our  own  politiciil 
difficulties.      But   that  and   everything   else 


17S 


seems  to  conspire  to  this  union.  The  immi- 
nence of  war  with  the  United  States,  the  cer- 
tainty of  the  abrogation  of  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty,  the  danger  of  non-intercourse,  the  op- 
portunity of  the  Charlottetown  Convention, 
and  the  consequent  necessity  of  the  Intercol- 
onial Railway — all  point  to  this  Confedera- 
tion. But  the  expense  is  the  bugbear  of  the 
opponents  of  this  scheme.  If  the  great  social 
and  political  interests  of  the  country  are  to  be 
served,  if  we  are  to  have  laid  broad  and  deep 
in  the  hearts  of  the  people  the  foundations  of 
a  gt'eat  nationality,  as  my  honorable  friend 
from  Wellington  has  expressed  it,  the  finan- 
cial part  of  the  scheme  is  but  a  secondary 
consideration.  To-day,  the  balance  of  advan- 
tage may  be  against  us  ;  to-morrow,  it  may  be 
in  our  favor.  Who  can  say,  when  the  railway 
shall  be  established,  and  when  by  the  union 
we  shall  have  incited  new  enterprises  and 
energies,  and  developed  the  whole  resources  of 
the  eastern  provinces,  with  whom  the  finan- 
cial balance  may  rest  ?  I  cannot  close  my 
remarks  better  than  by  saying,  that  had  a 
union  of  all  these  provinces  existed  in  fact  as 
it  has  existed  in  the  minds  of  stateSlnen  since 
the  commencement  of  the  present  century, 
the  man  who,  in  the  face  of  our  present  criti- 
cal position,  with  civil  war  raging  in  our 
vicinity,  and  even  national  war  threatening 
ourselves,  should  now  propose  to  dissolve  that 
union  and  scatter  us  again  into  disjointed 
fragments,  would  be  looked  upon  as  an  enemy 
to  his  Queen  and  a  traitor  to  his  country. 
(Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— Honorable  gentle- 
men, a  French  journal  in  Montreal,  in  report- 
ing the  proceedings  of  a  meeting  recently  held 
at  Berthier,  to  consider  the  proposed  project 
of  the  Confederation  of  Canada  and  the  Lower 
Provinces,  and  to  which  meeting,  in  the 
capacity  of  representative  of  the  division  in 
which  the  county  is  situated,  I  was  invited, 
stated  that  I  had  expressed  myself  against  that 
project,  and  I  therefore  take  this,  the  first  op- 
portunity, of  declaring  that  the  journal  in 
question  was  in  error,  and  that  I  did  not  so 
express  myself.  I  did,  however,  say  at  that 
meeting,  that  there  were  provisions  in  the 
project  upon  which  I  could  not  look  with  a 
favorable  eye.  but  that  I  could  not  then  pro- 
nounce an  opinion,  but  would  wait  until  I 
came  to  Parliament,  when  I  expected  the 
details  would  be  placed  before  the  members 
fully  and  in  good  faith.  I  must,  however, 
say,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  in  this  I  have 
been  much  disappointed,  for  until  now,  the 
information  so  much  desired  and  asked  for  has 


not  been  supplied,  and  the  House  is  left  in  the 
dirk  in  respect  of  several  important  matters 
upon  which  it  is  asked  to  decide.  For  in- 
stance, it  was  stated  in  the  resolutions,  that 
means  would  be  taken  to  effectually  protect 
the  minorities  and  preserve  to  them  the  rights 
they  now  possess,  but  we  were  not  informed 
as  to  what  those  rights  were,  or  as  to  the  means 
to  be  used  for  preserving  them  untouched  and 
unimpaired.  If  we  had  known  what  these 
means  would  be,  we  would  have  come  pre- 
pared to  assent  to,  or  to  dissent  from  them,  in 
an  intelligent  manner,  and  to  express  our 
opinions  as  we  ought  to  do,  but  thi^s  informa- 
tion was  not  vouchsafed.  I  under.stand  that 
a  bill,  to  assure  to  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada  the  uninterrupted  possessifin  and  en- 
joyment of  their  rights,  is  to  be  brought  down 
and  passed  before  the  scheme  of  Federation 
itself  is  fully  adopted  and  sanctioned  ;  but  I 
have  not  heard  that  any  similar  measure  is  to 
be  passed  in  favor  of  the  Roman  Catholics  of 
Upper  Canada.  I  have  no  objection,  what- 
ever, to  grant  to  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada,  for  all  future  time,  the  rights  they 
now  enjoy,  or  any  other  rights  and  guarantees 
which  may  be  deemed  reasonable  and  equit- 
able, but  I  cannot  vote  to  adopt  the  resolu- 
tions until  I  am  informed  whether  the  Roman 
Catholics  of  the  west  are  to  be  dealt  with  in 
the  same  manner.  By  refusing  us  informa- 
tion on  tais  important  subject,  the  Govern- 
ment has  placed  us  in  a  false  position,  from 
which,  I  think,  it  is  their  duty  to  extricate 
us.  I  shall  not  now  address  myseli'  to  the  in- 
quiry of  whether  the  Confederation  scheme  be 
really  desirable  or  not,  but  cannot  help  saying 
that  the  long-standing  difference  bitween  the 
two  sections  of  the  province  might  have  been 
arranged,  if  during  the  last  difficulty  between 
the  respective  parties  the  leading  men  on 
either  side  had  been  willing  to  sink  their  per- 
sonal differences  and  make  mutual  conces- 
sions. But  as  it  is  of  no  use  now  to  refer  to 
that  subject,  I  will  not  argue  the  matter  fur- 
ther. I  maintain  again,  however,  that  the 
House  has  a  right  to  expect  the  Government 
will  give  us  all  the  information  in  respect  of 
the  details  of  the  Confederation  scheme  as 
may  be  necessary  to  understand  thoroughly  all 
its  provisions.  My  opinion  is,  th  it  as  much 
power  as  possible  should  have  been  entrusted 
to  the  local  governments,  and  as  little  as  is 
consistent  with  the  functions  it  will  have  to 
discharge  to  the  Central  Governmciit,  and  my 
reason  for  entertaining  this  opinion  is,  that 
the  Supreme  Government,  with  its  power  of 
purse  and  its  control  of  the  armies,  will  always 


174 


be  more  disposed  to  stretch  its  prerogatives 
and  to  trench  upon  the  domain  of  the  local 
governments  tlian  to  narrow  down  and  retain 
its  authority.  The  scheme  then,  in  my  opin- 
ion, is  defective  in  that  it  inverts  this  order 
and  gives  to  the  General  Government  too  much 
power  and  to  the  local  governments  too  little. 
As  it  is  now,  if  the  scheme  goes  into  opera- 
tion, t'.\e  local  governments  will  be  in  danger 
of  being  crushed  {^erases)  by  the  General 
Government.  The  tendency  of  the  whole 
scheme  seems  to  be  one  of  political  retrogres- 
sion instead  of  advancement. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Hear!  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  am  glad  the  Hon. 
Premier  seems  so  strongly  to  approve  of  what 
I  say. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Ah !  but  it  is 
exactly  the  contraiy. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— Then  I  am  sorry 
not  to  obtain  his  approval — (laughter) — but 
nevertheless  I  hold  that  the  policy  disclosed 
in  the  scheme  is  a  backward  policy.  I  want 
to  progress,  I  want  to  see  the  country  advance, 
I  want  to  see  the  liberties  of  the  country  un- 
folding and  expanding;  but  instead  of  this 
our  rulers  are  narrowing  them  down  and  re- 
stricting their  free  exercise.  (Hear.)  They 
are  now  proposing  to  take  away  the  elective 
principle  in  its  application  to  this  Chamber,  and 
that  too,  without  even  having  received  a  peti- 
tion or  sign  of  any  kind  from  the  people  that 
such  is  their  wish.  If  this  is  not  a  policy  of 
retrogression  I  can  hardly  imagine  what  would 
be.  I  was  not  sent  here  to  assist  in  doing 
any  such  thing,  and  am  not  aware  that  there 
has  been  any  evidence  of  a  desire  in  the 
country  for  a  return  to  the  old  mode  of  ap- 
pointment by  the  Crown.  I  am  not  aware 
of  one  complaint,  or  of  any  dissatisfaction 
whatever  with  the  present  constitution  of  the 
Legislative  Council,  and  I  therefore  regard  it 
as  not  a  little  strange  that  a  few  gentlemen, 
without  mission  or  warrant,  should  have  de- 
vised such  a  change,  and  should  be  trying  to 
press  it  upon  the  Legislature  and  the  country. 
I  cannot  say  what  is  the  general  feeling  in 
the  public  mind  in  favor  of  a  Confederation 
of  Canada  and  the  Maritime  Provinces,  and 
so  far,  perhaps,  from  being  opposed  to  it  per- 
sonally, I  would  be  glad  if  it  could  be  accom- 
plished upon  priuciples  I  can  approve.  I  do 
nut  wish,  however,  to  see  the  local  govern- 
ments cruslicd  under  a  great  central  power, 
and  1  am  tjure  the  people  cannot  wish,  and  do 
not  wish,  to  give  up  the  principle  of  election 
in  respect  of  this  House.  They  had  fought 
too  long  for  the  privilege  to  do  that,  and  one 


thing  was  quite  clear,  we  were  not  sent  to 
Parliament  to  destroy  our  present  Constitution. 
There  is  a  great  difference  between  making 
machinery  work  and  breaking  it  to  peices, 
and  I  maintain  that  we  were  elected  to  legis- 
late within  the  Constitution,  not  to  legislate 
away  the  Constitution.  When  I  was  elected 
I  expected  to  go  back  to  my  constituents  to 
give  them  an  account  of  the  manner  in  which 
I  had  fulfilled  the  duty  entrusted  to  me,  not 
to  take  advantage  of  my  position  to  provide 
for  myself  a  seat  for  life.  No,  my  constitu- 
ents never  gave  me  this  right,  nor  was  any 
elected  member  entrusted  with  it,  and  who- 
ever assume  to  vote  away  the  liberties  of  the 
people  in  this  manner,  betray  their  man- 
date. If  it  was  desired  that  the  people  should 
surrender  this  right  they  should  have  been 
informed  of  such  desire  in  good  time,  so  that 
they  might  have  considered  the  question  ;  but 
without  warning  them,  or  consulting  them, 
this  most  highly-prized  principle  was  bartered 
away  to  the  Lower  Provinces  for  a  Confeder- 
ation which  could  not  last.  The  Hon.  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  had  told  the  House 
that  the  repartition  of  Lower  Canada  accord- 
ing to  the  present  electoral  divisions  had  been 
retained  for  the  purpose  of  protecting  the 
British  population  of  Lower  Canada.  I  think 
that  if,  with  the  retaining  these  electoral  divi- 
sions the  elective  principle  was  also  retained,  the 
French  population  of  Lower  Canada  would 
also  find  in  it  their  protection.  For  then 
each  division  would  be  free  to  choose  for  its 
representative  in  the  Federal  Legislative 
Council  a  man  attached  to  the  institutions 
of  Lower  Canada,  while,  in  giving  the  nom- 
ination of  the  legislative  councillors  to  the 
Federal  power,  the  latter  would  be  at  liberty 
to  choose  whomsoever  it  thought  proper,  and, 
unfortunately  —  a  circumstance  which  I  do 
not  anticipate,  but  which  may  occur  —  the 
General  Government,  when  formed,  might  be 
surrounded  by  coteries  inimical  to  Lower 
Canada  interests,  and  be  led  by  them  to 
choose  members  for  the  Legislative  Council 
hostile  to  the  views  of  Lower  Canada.  I 
consider,  therefore,  an  elective  Legislative 
Council  in  the  Confederation  as  essential  to 
the  interests  of  Lower  Canada.  Nothing  is 
gained  politically  by  the  scheme  any  more 
than  financially.  The  honorable  mcnibor  ibr 
Niagara  has  abundantly  proved -that  all  the 
results  to  Canada  would  bo  a  sacrifice  of  prin- 
ples  and  of  money.  To  assure  tho  advantages 
to  themselves  of  the  scheme  of  Confederation, 
the  Lower  Provinces  had  stipulated  first  for 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 


175 


and  we  would  in  consequence  have  to  expend 
twenty  millions  for  that  object,  besides  pay- 
ing §63,000  a  year  to  New  Brunswick  for  ten 
years,  and  $150,000  a  year  to  Newfoundland 
forever.  .  To  be  sure,  in  the  latter  case  we 
would  have  the  produce  of  the  mines  of  that 
island,  but  I  would  ask  any  one  who  knows 
the  value  of  those  mines,  how  much  they 
would  be  worth  to  us  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  said,  with  respect 
to  the  Newfoundland  mines,  that  he  had  had 
communicated  to  him  a  note  from  Sir 
William  Logan,  the  provincial  geologist, 
which  would  probably  throw  some  light  upon 
the  subject.  The  note  was  written  unofficially 
and  without  the  remotest  reference  to  the 
question  under  debate,  and  therefore  might 
be  taken  as  good  evidence  in  the  case.  It 
was  as  follows  : — 

There  is  no  part  of  the  whole  surface,  accord- 
ing to  my  present  impression,  which  deserves 
more  attention  than  Newfoundland.  There  is,  in 
that  island,  a  great  development  of  the  forma- 
tions which  promise  so  considerable  a  mineral 
result  in  the  Eastern  Townships  The  coast  of 
the  island  abounds  with  good  harbors,  and  the 
available  minerals  would,  in  very  many  cases,  ex- 
tend to  the  coast.  Newfoundland  is  the  part  of 
the  area  nearest  to  Europe.  The  surface  of  the 
island,  not  being  in  general  very  favorable  for 
agrici.lture,  mining  might  become  the  means  of 
giving  emi'loyment  to  labor  and  attractins?  popu- 
lation, while  the  island  requires  an  increase  of 
inhabitants  to  make  the  more  available  the  im 
portant  position  it  occupies  for  the  defence  of  the 
St.  Lawrence  and  the  country  beyond  on  its  banks. 

After  the  dinner  recess, — 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER  continued  his  re- 
marks. He  said  :  When  the  Council  ad- 
journed at  sis  o'clock,  I  was  speaking  of  the 
Island  of  Newfoundland,  to  which  we  grant  a 
subsidy  of  6150,000  per  anntim,  and  not  for 
one  year  only,  but  for  ever.  I  was  saying, 
moreover,  that  I  was  apprehensive  that  some 
of  us  were  ignorant  of  the  facts  which  might 
have  led  the  delegates  at  Quebec  to  grant 
that  sum  to  the  Island  of  Newfoundland.  But 
it  seems,  if  I  perfectly  understood  what  was 
said,  that  that  sum  was  granted  as  an  indem- 
nity for  giving  up  the  produce  of  the  public 
lands,  mines  and  forests.  We  are  told  by  the 
Honorable  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands 
(Hon.  Mr.  Ca3IPBEll)  that  he  had  been  in- 
foiTued  by  the  provincial  geologist,  Sir  W. 
Logan,  that  there  really  are  mines  in  the 
Island  of  Newfoundland.  I  was  anxious  to 
learn  from  the  Hon.  Commissioner  whether 
an  official  exploration  of  the  country  had  ever 
been  made,  whether  it  had  ever  been  ascer- 


tained what  kind  of  mines  existed  in  New- 
foundland. The  information  which  he  gave 
was  not  derived  from  official  reports,  and  I 
am  extremely  anxious  to  know  whether  thei'e 
is  any  documentary  evidence  of  the  existence 
of  the  pretended  riches  of  Newfoundland,  in 
woods,  mines  and  public  lands. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  p.  TACHE— The  honorable 
member  may  go  on ;  in  the  course  of  the  de- 
bate he  will  receive  satisfactory  information. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— Very  well ;  but  I 
see  by  the  statistics,  on  the  contrary,  that 
there  is  no  timber  on  the  island  beyond  what 
is  necessary  for  the  building  of  the  huts  or 
cabins  of  the  fishermen  who  inhabit  it,  and 
that  there  is  no  land  fit  for  ctiltivation  belong- 
ing to  the  Crown  ;  and,  as  to  mines,  I  do  not 
believe  any  official  exploration  has  been  made 
to  ascertain  their  existence  in  the  island. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— It  is  a  well- 
ascertained  fact  that  there  are  mines  in  the 
Island  of  Newfoundland  of  great  value.  As 
to  the  grant  of  $150,000  yearly  subsidy,  I 
must  obser\-e  to  the  honorable  member  that  it 
was  intended  to  make  up  for  the  revenue 
given  up  by  Newfoundland  to  the  Confedera- 
tion, amounting  at  present  to  $400,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER — Another  reason 
why  I  cannot  approve  of  the  plan  of  Confeder- 
ation, as  it  is  now  presented  to  us,  is  that  I 
consider  it  as  a  retrograde  step  in  the  politi- 
tical  progress  of  the  country.  The  spirit  of 
modem  society  is  to  give  to  the  people  as 
much  political  liberty  as  possible ;  and  it  is 
my  belief  that  by  this  plan  of  Confederation 
we  shall  sacrifice  whatever  liberty  is  already 
possessed  by  the  people  of  this  country. 
When  I  expressed  this  idea,  a  short  time 
since,  the  Honorable  Premier  seemed  to  give 
an  ironical  assent  to  it,  as  if  he  considered 
my  notions  exaggerated.  I  am  bound  to  tell 
him  that  I  neither  love  nor  approve  of  mob- 
ride  any  more  than  he  does,  but  I  have  always 
held  as  a  political  principle,  that  as  much 
political  liberty  as  possible  should  be  conceded 
to  the  masses,  combined  always  with  a  Gov- 
ernment strong  enough  to  maintain  order  and 
administer  the  laws ;  and  herein  I  consider  that 
I  conform  to  the  principles  of  modern  society, 
without  giving  in  to  the  dictates  of  demagogy. 
I  am  favorable  to  democracy,  but  not  to  dema- 
gogy, and  in  this  sense  I  spoke.  I  say,  then, 
that  in  taking  from  the  people  for  all  time, 
the  right  which  they  acquired  after  long 
struggles  of  electing  members  to  this  House, 
we  are  retrograding,  making  a  step  backward, 
and  I  am  sure  the  people  will  not  look  upon 
this  project  with  a  favorable  eye.     We   are 


176 


told  that  Confederation  is  become  necessary 
for  the  defence  of  the  country.  For  one 
moment  I  will  admit  that  it  might  increase 
our  means  of  defence,  but  that  is  assuredly  no 
reason  for  urging  the  adoption  of  the  measure, 
as  now  attempted  to  be  done.  With  Con- 
federation, neither  the  number  of  men  in  the 
several  provinces,  nor  the  pecuniary  resources 
now  at  their  disposal,  will  be  increased.  I 
cannot  see  what  vast  increase  of  strength  this 
Confederation  is  to  give  forthwith,  for  England 
is  fully  entitled  at  this  moment  to  dispose, 
without  let  or  hindrance,  of  all  the  resources, 
both  in  men  and  money,  possessed  by  the 
colony,  just  as  well  as  she  will  be  after 
Confederation  is  effected.  That  is  therefore 
no  reason  to  make  us  urge  on  the  adoption  of 
the  measuie,  especially  as  we  risk  nothing  by 
giving  the  people  time  to  study,  examine  and 
understand  the  new  Constitution  of  which  we 
are  desirous  to  make  them  a  present.  They 
tell  us  that  the  Intercolonial  Kailway  is  to  be 
a  military  road.  But  if  it  be  so,  how  happens 
it  that  nobody  has  thought  of  another  part  of 
the  country  in  which  a  military  road  is  much 
more  called  for.  I  can  hardly  believe  that 
anybody  can  be  serious  in  this,  while  they 
overlook  the  real  military  road  which  would  be 
wanted  in  the  event  of  hostilities, — I  mean  a 
railway  between  Quebec  and  Montreal,  on  the 
north  shore  of  the  River  St.  Lawrence.  In 
order  to  reader  the  Intercolonial  Railway  of 
any  avail  as  a  military  road,  the  North  Shore 
Railway  must  also  be  built,  for  the  present 
road  on  tliC  south  shore  may  be  easily  cut 
and  occupied  by  the  enemy.  Leaving  Quebec 
it  takes  the  direction  of  the  United  States, 
and  leaving  Montreal  it  takes  the  same  direc- 
tion to  meet  the  other  branch  at  Richmond. 
In  case  of  war  the  Americans  would  have 
but  a  short  distance  to  advance  to  take 
possession  of  either  one  or  the  other  of  these 
branches.  I  shall  now  proceed  to  examine 
whether  the  plan  of  Confederation  is  really 
what  it  seems  to  be.  I  hear  it  said  that  Con- 
federation, as  it  is  proposed,  will  be  a  Federal 
union — but  it  seems  to  me  that  it  will  be  rather 
a  Legislative  union,  at  least  as  far  as  regards 
the  most  important  interests  of  Lower  Canada. 
The  29th  section  of  the  scheme  submitted  to 
us  says :  "  The  Federal  Parliament  shall  have 
the  power  of  making  laws  for  the  peace,  the 
well-being,  and  the  good  government  of  the 
Confederate  provinces,  and  in  particular  in 
respect  of  tlie  following  matters."  The  powers 
of  the  Federal  Government  will  be  in  reality 
unlimited.  The  fact  of  the  enumeration  of 
these  tliirty-seven  heads  does  not  iu  the  leuat 


restrain  the  power  of  the  Federal  Government 
from  legislating  on  everything.  The  excep- 
tions are  few.  I  would  ask  the  Honorable 
Premier,  for  instance,  whether  the  Federal 
Government  has  not  the  power  to  enact  that 
marriage  is  a  civil  contract  ?  He  cannot  deny 
it,  and  I  do  not  believe  that  that  clause  will 
in  any  way  suit  Lower  Canada.  In  a  matter 
of  divorce,  I  consider  that  the  power  of  legis- 
lating upon  it  ought  to  be  vested  in  the 
Federal  Government ;  but  as  to  the  passing 
of  a  marriage  act,  we  have  the  authority  of  • 
the  past  to  convince  us  that  Lower  Canada 
will  never  be  satisfied  with  what  is  proposed 
in  the  plan  of  Confederation.  On  a  former 
occasion,  when  a  member  of  the  Parliament 
of  Canada  moved  to  enact  that  marriage 
should  be  made  a  civil  contract,  all  the  mem- 
bers for  Lower  Canada  voted  against  the 
motion,  and  the  whole  country  was  opposed 
to  it.  I  shall  also  inquire  whether  the  Federal 
Government  will  not  have  the  right  to  enact 
that  religious  corporations  shall  no  longer 
exist  in  the  country,  or  that  they  shall  not  be 
allowed  to  hold  real  property,  except  what  is 
absolutely  necessary  for  their  lodging  accom- 
modation. Accordin'j;  to  the  resolutions  which 
have  been  submitted  to  us,  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment would  certainly  have  this  right.  It ' 
has  been  said  that  article  15  of  the  43rd 
resolution  replies  to  this  objection,  but  I  can 
see  nothing  in  that  article  which  restricts  the 
right  of  the  Federal  Government  to  legislate 
on  this  matter.  The  43rd  resolution  defines 
the  powers  of  the  local  governments,  and  arti- 
cle 15  of  that  resolution  declares  that  they 
may  make  laws  respecting  '•  property  and 
civil  rights,  excepting  those  portions  thereof 
assigned  to  the  General  Parliament."  That 
article  reserves  to  the  local  legislatures  nothing 
relative  to  religious  corporations,  and  the 
Federal  Government  would  have  full  power  to 
decree  that  those  corporations  shall  not  hold 
immovable  property.  The  supreme  power  is 
that  which  has  the  right  to  legislate  upon, 
and  regulate  the  existence  of,  the  corporations 
in  question,  and  they  can  only  possess  civil 
rights  so  long  as  the  Government  permits  them 
to  exist.  The  same  might  be  said  of  most  of 
the  institutions  to  which  Lower  Canada  is 
attached.  I  am  therefore  right  in  saying  that, 
so  far  as  those  thiuijrs  which  Lower  Canada 
most  holds  to  are  concerned,  Confederation  is 
in  fact  a  Legislative  union,  because  upon  the 
Federal  Goverumonl  is  conferred  the  right  oi' 
legislating  upon  those  subjects  which  Lower 
Canada  holds  most  dear.  It  apjiears  to  me 
that  it  is  the  moro  important  not  to  proceed 


17? 


so  rapidly  as  it  is  proposed  to  do,  because  it  is 
extremely  difficult  to  foresee  what  will  be  the 
bearing  of  the  platform  which  it  is  proposed 
to  erect.  I  have  just  cited  the  rights  which 
Confederation  would  confer  upon  the  Federal 
Government  in  respect  of  certain  points  ;  but 
there  are  other  interests  which  may  perhaps 
be  imperilled  by  this  measure — I  will  cite, 
for  instance,  the  rights  of  the  creditors  of  the 
provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— They  will  have 
the  guarantee  of  the  Confederation. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— The  rights  of 
the  creditors  of  the  province  will  form  the  sub- 
ject of  an  arrangement  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  at  a  later  period,  but  the  credi- 
tors will  have  the  guarantee  of  the  whole  Con- 
federation. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  see  nothing  of 
that  in  the  resolutions. 

Hon.  SirE.  P.  TACHE— All  the  details  are 
not  included  in  the  resolutions ;  but  as  to 
the  balance  of  §5,000,000  which  will  have  to 
be  divided  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
and  which  constitutes  the  diiference  between 
the  $62,000,000  of  debt  which  will  be  assumed 
by  the 'Confederation,  and  the  $67,000,000 
which  Canada  owes,  a  division  will  be  made 
before  Parliament  is  dissolved. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  understood  that 
the  debts  were  to  be  divided  and  that  the  in- 
demnity to  the  seigniors,  for  instance,  for  the 
abolition  of  the  Seisoniorial  Tenure  was  to  be 
imposed  entirely  on  Lower  Canada.     If  there 
are  any  verbal  explanations  beyond  what  is 
contained  in  the  resolutions,  I   am  quite  wil- 
ling to  receive  them  from   the   Government, 
but  that  is  just  the  reason  why  we  should  not 
be  in  a  hurry  to  adopt  these  resolutions  until 
we  have  those  explanations,  for  it  might  be 
dangerous    not  to   have   all   these  questions 
settled  before  voting  for  Confederation  ;  who 
can  say  whether  we  can  settle  them  as  well  after 
as  before  ?     These  promises  of  explanations 
shew  that,  since  all  the  facts  are  not  submitted, 
we  may  easily  mistake  the  meaning   of  the 
resolutions  which  we  are  called  upon  to  adopt. 
In  any  case,  I  certainly  see  nothing  in  these 
resolutions    which    gives    the    seigniors    the 
guarantee  of  the  Confederation  as  security  for 
their  claim,  and  I  can  only  judge  of  the  reso- 
lutions by  what  they  contain,  especially  in  the 
absence    of   any  explanation  of  the    details. 
The  IMiuister  of  Finance  (Hon.  Mr.   Galt) 
stated   that   the  debt    due  to    the   seigniors 
would  fall  on  Lower  Canada  alone,   and  this 
does  not  agree  exactly  with  what  the  Prime 
Minister  has  just  said.   As  I  said  a  short  time 
21 


ago,  when  speaking  of  the  school  question,  I 
would  not  vote  for  a  Constitution  which  would 
not  confer  on  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada 
the  same  advantnges  as  are  possessed  by  the 
Protestants  of  Lower  Canada,  and  I  consider 
that  this  is  a  matter  that  should  be  settled 
before  taking  a  vote  on  the  resolutions,  for 
when   Confederation   is  once    voted   it    may 
easily   happen  that  we  shall  not  be   able  to 
obtain  what  is  promised  us  now.      ^Ve  there- 
fore are  in  a  position  which   may  make   us 
sacrifice  the   minority  of   Upper  Canada  by 
voting  Confederation  now,  or  make  us   vote 
against  a  principle  which  we  might  perhaps 
accept,   if  we  were  acquainted   with  all  its 
details.     For  my  part,  I  acknowledge  that  I 
would  not  cause  the  plan   of    Confederation 
which  is  proposed  to  us  to  miscarry,  if  it  is 
possible  to  make  it  just,  acceptable  and  useful 
to  all  parties.     But  for  this  I  will  not  sacri- 
fice the  interests  of  a  portion  of  the  popula- 
tion.    Another  poiut  upon  which  we   require 
•explanations,  and  respecting  which    we  have 
none,  is  that  relating  to  the  constitution  of  the 
local  governments.     Now,  for  instance,  some 
journals  which  usually  express  the  views  and 
opinions   of   the   present    Government,  have 
stated  that  in  all  the  local  governments  the 
system  of   responsibility  of  the  ministers  to 
the  people  or  their  representatives  would  not 
exist,  but  that  an  irresponsible  system  would 
be  siibstituted  for  it.     I  ask   which  of  you 
would  accept  such  a  system,  and  what  part 
of  the  people  would  approve  of  such  an  altera- 
tion in  our  political   institutions?     You  are 
told   "  vote  for  the  plan  submitted  to  you,  and 
the  details  will  be  explained  to  you  at  a  later 
period."     But  at  a  later  period  neither  Upper 
nor  Lower  Canada  will  be  master  of  the  posi- 
tion, and  able  to  obtain  the  system  of  govern- 
ment which   may    suit    them,    should    that 
imposed  upon   them   not  meet   their  views. 
But,  yet  once  more,  why  hurry  you  so  much  ? 
Why,   for  instance,   should   this  -House   be 
called  upon  to  sit  twice  a-day  on  this  question 
before  even  its  details  are  known  ?     Why  de- 
part from  our  custom  of  examining  matters  in 
a  calm  and  deliberate  manner.     Certainly,  up 
to  the  present  time,  not  one  valid  reason  has 
been  given  to  justify  the  hurry  in  which  it  is 
proposed  to  carry  this  measure.     Mention  has 
indeed  been  made  of  defence,  but  this  is  no 
valid  reason,  for  it  is  perfectly  well  known 
that  all  the  resources  of  Canada  are  now  at 
the  disposal  of  England  in  case  of  need ;  this 
precipitate  action  is  then  neither  justified  nor 
justifiable.     I  ask  whether  we  know  the  plan 
of  Confederation  which  is  submitted  to  us. 


178 


and,  unfortunately,  I  must  answer  my  ques- 
tion in  the  negative.  Surprise  has  been  ex- 
pressed in  certain  quarters  at  the  opposition 
which  has  arisen  to  this  measure  after  all  the 
advantages  which  wc  were  promised  should 
result  from  it.  Thus  it  was  said  that  under 
Confederation  we  should  obtain  coal  from 
Nova  Scotia  without  having  any  duty  to  pay. 
This  reasoning  might  appear  to  carry  a  cer- 
tain amount  of  force  with  it,  but  I  must  say 
that  it  is  in  fact  captious,  for  we  find  at  the 
present  day  that  wc  can  indeed  get  this  coal, 
but  by  paying  the  export  duty  exactly  like 
foreign  countries.  Would  there,  then,  be  no 
real  free  trade  between  the  different  parts  of 
the  same  Confederation  ?  Would  the  position 
of  the  provinces,  in  tliis  I'cspect,  remain  as  it 
is  to-day  ?  The  proof  of  what  I  state  here  is 
found  in  Hon.  Mr,  Galt's  speech  to  his  con- 
stituents : — 

In  Nova  Scotia  a  considerable  revenue  was  de- 
rived from  a  royalty  ©n  coal  mines,  and  its  repre- 
sentatives at  the  Conferenco  stated  that  if  the' 
General  Government  imposed  an  sxport  duty  on 
coal  it  would  annihilate  one  of  their  most  import- 
ant resources,  and,  therefore,  Nova  Scotia  has 
been  allowed  to  regulate  herself  the  export  duty 
on  coal,  precisely  as  New  Brunswick  enjoys  that 
right  as  regards  its  timber. 

This  duty  which  Nova   Scotia   may  impose 
on  the  export  of  its  coal,  whatsoever  it  may 
be  styled,  is  then  in  reality  an  export  duty, 
and   the  result,  as   regards  ourselves,  is   to 
leave  us  still  in  the  same  position  if  wc  must 
pay  tha  duty  in  order  to  got  the  coal  of  that 
province.     The  argument  baaed  on  the  fact 
that  wc  could  obtain  coal  from  Nova  Scotia 
without  paying  an  import  duty,  is  thus  de- 
stroyed, since  the  duty   will   still  exist.     I 
have  already  stated  that  the  plan  submitted 
for  our  approval  is  exceedingly  complex,  and 
that  it  is  not  easy  to  foresee  the  difficulties 
that  will  arise  between  the  local  governments 
and  the  Federal  Govcrnmcnr.     It  may,  per- 
haps, be  as.sertod  that  these  difficulties  cannot 
be  very  serious,  inasmuch  as  the  local  govern- 
ments will  not  possess  any  large  powers  ;  but 
if  it  is  designed  to  make  them  real  govern- 
ments, and  not  mere  municipalities,  they  may 
be  opposed  to  the  Central  Government  on  a 
host   of  questions.     Take,  for   instance,  the 
question  of  the  fisheries.     Article  17,  of  the 
2Uth  resolution,  gives  to  tlio  Federal  Parlia- 
ment the  ])owcr  of  Icgi.nlating  on  the   "  sea 
coast  and  inland  lisherics."     Under  the  8th 
article  of  the   l.'Jrd  resolution,  the  local  legis- 
latures will  also  have  the  right  of  logislnting 
on  the  '•  sea  coast  and  iidand  fishcricH."  Thus 


the  local  legislatures  and  the  Federal  Legisla- 
ture will  have  the  right  to  legislate  on  the 
same  subjects.  And  if  the  laws  they  make 
are  in  opposition  the  one  to  the  other,  what 
will  be  the  result  ?  And  this  may  well  hap- 
pen, for  we  know  that  in  the  Gulf,  for  in- 
stance, there  are  fisheries  which  are  of  the 
highest  importance  for  the  people  of  Lower 
Canada,  as  well  as  for  the  people  of  the  ad- 
joining colonies,  of  which  the  latter  have 
taken  possession,  and  sought  to  exclude  our 
people  from  them.  Now,  if  the  Local  Govern- 
ment of  Lower  Canada  made  laws  to  protect 
its  subjects  and  insure  to  them  the  right  to 
these  fisheries,  would  it  not  be  in  the  power 
of  the  Federal  Government  to  interfere  and 
prevent  it?  And  if  this  were  to  happen, 
would  it  not  give  rise  to  endless  antipathies 
and  struggles  between  the  two  governments  ? 
Lower  Canada  would  not  suffer  such  an  inter- 
ference without  feeling  it  very  strongly ;  and 
what  I  have  just  said  with  reference  to  the  fish- 
eries might  also  occur  with  reference  to  a  large 
number  of  questions.  And  it  is  quite  evident 
that  if  the  Local  Government,  acting  in  the 
interests  of  a  province,  were  arrested  in  its 
action  by  the  Federal  Government,  the  people 
would  take  sides  with  their  Local  Govern- 
ment and  become  disaffected  towards  the 
Central  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— This  question 
of  the  fisheries  is,  no  doubt,  divided  between 
the  local  governments  and  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment, but  it  is  evident,  that  in  order  that 
justice  may  be  done  to  each  part  of  the  Confed- 
eration in  an  impartial  manner,  the  general 
legislation  must  be  left  to  the  General  Govern- 
ment, while  the  application  of  the  internal  de- 
tails within  the  limits  of  the  fisheries  of  a  pro- 
vince, must  be  left  to  the  local  legislatures. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— The  argument  I 
have  brought  forward,  with  reference  to  fish- 
eries, is  applicable  to  other  questions,  and  is 
merely  to  show  that  the  present  plan  is  com- 
plex, that  there  are  conflicting  interests  in  the 
different  colonies,  and  that  the  Bettlonient  of 
them,  in  one  sense  or  in  another,  might  be 
productive  of  discontent  in  the  country,  and 
create  a  spirit  of  dissatisfaction    among   the 
people.     Some  one  has  said  that  this  project 
ifl  viowcd  favorably  in  England,  and  that  i'or 
that  reason  wo  ought  to  accept   it   in  order  to 
prevent  the  evil  consequences  that  might  arise 
from  our  oppo.sition  to  the  project.     For  my 
part,  I  do  not  believe  that  England  would  in- 
sist so  strongly  on  the  details  a.s  they  are  in- 
sisled  on   here,  but   I   bclievi'   lior   desire  is, 
that  the  plan   should  be  just  and  acceptable. 


179 


and  that  it  should  be  thoroughly  understood 
by  the  people  before  it  is  adopted  ;  she  is  less 
anxious  to  enforce  the  details  of  the  project 
than  to  see  the  people  of  the  provinces  content 
and  satisfied  with  it.      If  a  large  portion  of 
the  people  were  opposed  to  the  project,  I  do 
not  think  that  England  would   approve   of 
forcing  this  project  upon  them  without  giving 
time  to  examine  it  or  to  pronounce  upon  it. 
The  opinion  of  the  country  upon  this  plan  is, 
to-day,  quite  unknown.      I  am  quite  aware 
that  certain  members  can  vote  in  favor  of  the 
project  with   the    certainty  of  their  course 
meeting  the  approval  of  their  constituents ;  for 
instance,    those  whose  elections  have   taken 
place  since  the  plan  was   submitted   to  the 
country.     But  in  those  parts  of  the  country 
where  no  elections  have  taken  place,  it  is  im- 
possible to  say  that  the  people  will  be  satisfied 
or  that  they  will  endorse  the  action  of  their 
representatives  in  voting  for  Confederation, 
because  we  have  not  been  enabled  to  make  it 
known.     Thus  when  my  constituents  invited 
me    to    a    public    meeting    to    discuss   the 
subject,  I    was   compelled   to    admit  that  I 
could  not  tell  them  what   the  plan  of  Con- 
federation was ;  that  I  could  not  communicate 
it  to  them,   because   the   resolutions    I  had 
received  were  private.     I  also  told  them  that 
I  did  not  wish  to  form   my  opinion  before 
hearing  the  discussion  and  learning  the  de- 
tails ;  but  to-day  we  arc  refused  the  details, 
and  the  adoption  of  the  project  is  pressed 
without  affording  us  time  to  study  it  asit  is. 
An  attempt  will  probably  be  made  to  injure 
us  in  the  opinion  of  our  electors  if  we  vote 
against  this  project,  and  we  shall  be  accused 
of  having  opposed  Confederation  ;  but  I  trust 
the  people  will  see  that  we  cannot  vote  for  a 
thing  with  which  we  arc  not  acquainted,  and 
that  we  shall  have  their  approval  in  the  course 
we  shall,  adopt.     When  the  project  of  Con- 
federation is  submitted  to  the  English  Par- 
liament, they  will  take  it  for  granted  that  the 
people  of   this  country   approve   of  it ;    but 
they  will  never  suppose  that  the  measure  has 
been  forced  upon  the  people  without  affording 
them  the  opportunity  of  pronouncing  for  or 
against  it.     But  there  is  another  thing ;  it  is 
not  surprising  that   this  project   should   be 
looked  upon  with  a  favorable  eye  in  England, 
for  public  opinion  is  composed  specially  of 
that  of  the  industrial  and  commercial  classes, 
and  it  is  the  interest  of  those  classes  to  favor 
Confederation.  But  let  us  well  consider  wheth- 
er the  interests  of  those  classes  is  ours  also. 
I  consider  that  our  present  political  course 
should  be  to  see  to  the  jfti-erests  of  the  agri- 


culture, the  trade  and  the  industry  of  our 
country,  before  laboring  to  build  up  that  of 
English  traders  and  artisans.     If  by  Confed- 
eration we  unite  provinces,  the  inhabitants  of 
which  find  it  their  interest  to  have  a  very  low 
tariff  adopted,  it  might  very  well  happen  that 
the  agricultural  interest  of  Canada  might  not 
find  itself  so  well  off,  and  in  such  a  case  what 
would  be  the  result  ?     The  result  would  be 
that  we  should  very  soon  have  an  enormous 
debt,  and  that,  should  the   customs  revenue 
not  suffice  to  meet  it  and  provide  for  the  ex- 
penditure, the  deficit  would  have  to  be  made 
up  by  means  of  direct  taxation,  which  would 
weigh  upon  the  agriculture  and  industry  of 
the  country.     If  we  have  a  tariff"  of  twenty 
per  cent.,  it  protects  the  industry  of  our  na- 
tive land,  and  is  a  source  of  revenue  where- 
with to  provide  for  the  public  expenditure; 
but  if  we  make  it  too  low,  real  property  will 
suffer,  for  on  it  will  be  laid  the  burthen  im- 
posed  to   meet   the   deficit.      Confederation 
would  appear  to  me  to  be  very   costly,  for 
money  is  scattered  on  all  sides  in  handfuls. 
Thus  it  is  proposed  to  construct  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  which  will  cost  at  least  $20- 
000,000  ;  to  Upper  Canada  is  given  $16,000,- 
000  to  improve  its  canals ;  $150,000  a  year 
is  given  to  Newfoundland,  as  a  compensation 
for  mines  which  perhaps  do  not  exist,  and 
$63,000  to  New  Brunswick;    and  after  all 
this  the  Local  and  Federal  Governments  have 
the  power  conferred  on  them  of  adding  new 
taxes  to  those  which  already  exist  in  order  to 
meet  the  expenditure ;  and  I  have  no  doubt 
whatever  but  that  they  will  avail  themselves 
of  that  permission.     All  this  is  deserving  of 
consideration,  and    these   are   reasons  which 
should  induce  the  Government  to  submit  the 
question   to   the   people,  instead   of  wishing 
to  have  it  decided  at  once ;  for,  even  allow- 
ing the  measure  to  be  absolutely  a  good  one, 
the  people  will   always   regard  it  with   mis- 
trust if  it  is  thrust  upon  them.     What !  we 
are  told  that  we  are  perhaps  on  the  eve  of 
a  war  with  our  neighbors,  and  we  run  the  risk 
of  dissatisfying  the  people  by  imposing  a  system 
upon  them  to  which  they  are  perhaps  opposed. 
.  It  is  not  only  in  the  district  of  Montreal  that 
the  submission  of  the  question  to  the  people  is 
called  for — the  Toronto  Leader  says  that  the 
people  ought  to  be  consulted,  and  this  appears 
to  me  to  be  most  reasonable.     For  my  part,  I 
am  in  favor  of  an  appeal  to  the  people,  and  I 
cannot  approve  of  Confederation  being  thrust 
•upon   them   without   their    being   consulted. 
Let  it  be  well  understood,  if  it  is  wished  that 
the  population  should  make  sacrifices  for  its 


180 


government  in  cage  of  war.  we  must  not  begin 
by  rendering  them  discontented  and  disaffected. 
Let  a  fair  and  equitable  system  of  Confedera- 
tion be  proposed,  and  let  the  people  have  an 
opportunity  of  examining  into  it  and  approv- 
ing of  it,  and  then  no  man  will  shrink  from 
the  necessity  of  making  the  greatest  sacrifices 
to  defend  the  Constitution   which  has  been 
freely  accepted  by  the  people.     It  may  be  said 
that  the  people  would  be  compelled  to  march 
at  the  point  of  the  bayonet ;  but  the  risk  of 
such  a  course  is  great,  for   the  arm  is  but 
feeble  when  it  is  not  animated  by  the  heart, 
and  to  defend  a  country  effectually  the  heart 
of  the  people   must  be  in  the   cause.     The 
Prime  ^linister  stated  that  the  object  of  Con- 
federation was  to  strengthen  the  monarchical 
principle  in  this  country.     I  do  not  see  that 
it  is  necessary  to  confer  upon  the  Crown  greater 
privileges  than  it  already  possesses  in  England 
itself     In  England  the  members  of  the  House 
of  Lords  are  not  appointed  by  the   Crown; 
succession  in  the  peerage  goes  down  hereditary 
from  father  to  son ;  but  here  it  is  proposed 
that  the  members  of  the  Legislative  Council, 
which    body    corresponds   to  the   House   of 
Lords,  should  be  selected  by  the  Crown.     Why 
should   this  be  ?     Why  go  beyond  what  is 
done  in  England  itself?     Is  it  that  the  Crown 
complains  that  it  has  not  sufficient  power  here  ? 
As  to  the  statement   that  it  is  proposed   to 
establish  in  America,  by  means  of  Confedera- 
tion, a  counterpoise  to  the  influence  and  power 
of  the  United  States,  I  would  ask  whether 
that  would   not  in  itself  constitute  the  best 
pretext  wliich  the  Government  of  the  United 
States  could  wish  for  upon  which  to  declare 
war  against  us.     At  the  present  time,  I  am 
not  of  opinion  that  the  American  people  are 
desirous  of  seeking  a  quarrel  with  us;  just 
now   they   have  quite   enough  to  attend  to. 
But  if  their  Goverament  should  think  it  to 
their  interest  to  declare  war  against  England, 
the  best  pretext  which  they  could  bring  for- 
ward to  excite  the  American  people  against 
us  would  certainly  be  this  pretended  counter- 
poise which  it  is  sought  to  establish.     It  is 
well  known  that  the  Monroe   doctrine  is  a 
principle  to  which  all  the  people  of  the  United 
States  are  attached,  and,  should  we  give  them 
an  opportunity,  they  would  avail  themselves 
of  it  to  put  that  doctrine  into  practice.     Since 
Confederation  does  not  in  reality  increase  the 
strength  of  the  colonics,  why  should  we  give 
umbrage  to  the  Government  of  the   United 
States,  and  jirovidc  tlicm  with  the  means  of 
animating  their   people  against  us  in  case  of 
the  breaking  out  of  hostilities  ?     If  the  means 


for  the  defence  of  the  country  were  increased, 
I  would  say,  let  us  tlirow  aside  all  these  con- 
siderations, but  such;  in  my  opinion,  is  not 
the  case.  In  conclusion,  I  would  implore  the 
Government  to  grant  to  the  people  the  time 
and  the  opportunity  of  convincing  themselves 
that  the  Constitution  which  it  has  prepared  is 
a  good  one,  and  that  it  has  really  been  planned 
with  a  view  to  their  interests ;  and,  in  that 
case,  I  predict  that  when  the  time  for  defence 
comes,  the  people  will  march  like  one  man. 
But  if  it  is  intended  to  thrust  it  upon  them 
by  main  force,  and  without  consulting  them, 
we  must  not,  we  cannot,  expect  them  to  defend 
their  land  with  the  like  zeal.  I  consider  that 
this  demand  is  no  more  than  just,  both  to 
ourselves  and  to  the  people  whom  we  represent. 
So  far  as  I  myself  am  concerned,  I  did  not 
come  here  to  fight  against  Confederation  and 
destroy  it  at  any  price,  but  I  certainly  will 
not  vote  for  it  without  being  acquainted  with 
it  in  all  its  details.     [Cheers.] 

The   debate   was   then   adjourned   till   to- 


morrow. 


Tuesday,  February  1-i,  1865. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLE  AU  said— Hon, 
gentlemen,  the  discussion  on  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  has  already  bccyi  protracted, 
and  little  really  remains  to  be  said,  for  all 
the  objections  to  the  scheme  have  been 
made  by  the  one  side  and  rsplied  to  by  the 
other.  1  may,  however,  bo  permitted  to 
offer  a  few  remarks  on  one  or  two  of  the  ob- 
jections which  were  urged  again  yesterday. 
For  the  last  three  years  the  country  has 
witnessed  a  state  of  things  which  by  many 
persons  has  been  desig'nated  govcrnnieutal 
anarchy.  Government  after  government  in 
rapid  succession  have  grasped  the  holm  of 
state.  A  state  of  conflict  existed  between 
political  parties  which  was  hourly  on  the 
increase;  a  conflict  which  threatened  to 
arrest  the  progress  of  public  busincs.s,  and 
which  drew  the  miuds  of  our  statesmen  to 
consider  whether  any  means  could  be  adopted 
to  rcmi  dy  this  state  of  things.  The  men 
of  influence  throughout  the  country  at 
length  decided  to  unite,  and  have  come  to 
the  conclusion  that  a  remedy  was  to  bo 
found  in  a  Confederation  of  the  British 
American  Provinces.  It  is  not  to  bo  won- 
dered nt  that  this  phjn  should  have  attracted 
the  attention  of  the  present  Administration, 
for  it  was  not  ii  new  one,  and  tlio  question 
had  already  been  brought  befurc  the  country 


181 


on  several  occasions.  In  tlie  CoDfederatiou 
of  these  provinces  are  to  be  found  elements 
which  give  promise,  nay,  contain  the  germ 
of  a  power  which  will  one  day  take  its  place 
among  the  nations  of  the  world.  And  in 
considering  this  Confederation  of  the  Britisli 
North  American  Provinces,  I  am  reminded 
of  the  foble  of  the  bundle  of  sticks,  which  I 
learned  in  my  childhood,  and  which  so  ex- 
actly applies  to  the  present  circumstances. 
This  ftible  tells  us  that  the  sticks  when 
bound  together  were  strong  enough  to  resist 
all  the  eflPorts  made  to  break  them,  but 
that  when  separated  they  were  broken  one 
by  one  with  but  little  effort.  It  seems  to 
me  that  the  lesson  afforded  by  this  fable 
may  be  well  applied  to  the  question  of  Con- 
federation— separated  we  are  weak,  united 
we  shall  be  strong.  Commerce,  population, 
manufactures,  progress,  in  a  word,  all  the 
elements  requisite  to  constitute  a  powerful 
nation  are  contained  in  the  united  colonies  ; 
but  these  become  of  little  consequence  if 
allowed  to  be  utilized  by  each  separate 
colony.  And  not  only  would  the  union  of 
these  elements  constitute  the  Confeaeration 
a  great  power  amongst  the  other  nations  of 
the  world,  but  there  woujld  be  found  amongst 
its  population  a  number  of  sturdy  arms, 
sufficient,  with  the  aid  of  Great  Britain,  to 
repel  foreign  aggression.  I  do  not  belong 
to  that  school  which  pretends  that  in  case 
of  invasion  on  the  part  of  the  United  States, 
the  best  thing  we  could  do  would  be  to  re- 
main passive  with  folded  arms.  That  is  not 
my  idea.  Such  notions  may  flatter  the 
opinions  and  de:sires  of  those  who  have 
republican  leanings,  of  annexationists  and 
of  anti-Canadians,  who  are  nothing  less  than 
enemies  of  the  monarchical  system  in  this 
country.  I  have  no  sympathy  with  those 
who  place  themselves  at  the  head  of  the 
republican  and  annexationist  school,  for  I 
see  in  them  none  of  those  national  aspira- 
tions of  which  every  man  is  always  proud. 
With  these  few  remarks  to  shew  the  neces- 
sity of  Confederation,  and  that  its  first  result 
will  bo  the  production  of  a  new  and  power- 
ful people,  I  propose  to  consider  the  terms 
and  conditions  of  the  scheme,  and  whether 
Lower  Canada  will  find  in  them  the  protec- 
tion its  interests  demand.  The  first  point 
to  which  I  directed  my  attention  was  to  as- 
certain what  guarantees  Lower  Canada  would 
find  in  Confederation  for  its  laws,  its  religion 
audits  autonomy.  I  find  the  guarantee  of 
all  these    things   in     that    article    of    the 


scheme  which  gives  to  Lower  Canada  the 
local  government  of  its  affairs,  and  the  con- 
trol of  all  matters  relating  to  its  institutions, 
to  its  laws,  to  its  religion,  its  manufactures 
and  its  autonomy.  Are  you  not  all  prepared, 
hon.  gentlemen,  and  you  especially  members 
from  Lower  Canada,  to  make  some  few  sacri- 
fices in  order  to  have  the  control  of  all  those 
things  to  which  I  have  just  referred,  and 
which  are  all  to  be  within  the  jurisdiction  of 
the  local  governments.  Arc  you  not  ready  to 
make  some  few  sacrifices  to  see  an  end  put 
to  those  struggles  which  have  been  con- 
stantly recurring  during  the  last  few  years,  to 
the  imminent  peril  of  Lower  Canada  and  of 
its  institutions — dangers  which  still  exist  and 
which  might  even  now  become  only  too  ap- 
parent were  the  friends  who  have  sustained 
the  combat  to  grow  weary,  or  to  give  way 
and  leave  the  field  to  their  adversaries  ?  If  we 
persist  in  striving  to  obtain  too  much,  if  we 
are  unwilling  to  make  any  sacrifice,  we  may 
lose  the  whole  result  of  these  struggles  and 
the  advantages  now  offered  for  our  accep- 
tance. For  my  part  the  consideration  that 
we  shall  have  the  control  of  our  local  aff'airs 
in  Lower  Canada,  under  the  Confederation, 
is  a  sufficient  inducement  to  vote  in  favor 
of  the  scheme  now  submitted  to  us,  even 
although  it  oflFered  us  no  other  advantage. 
But,  without  entering  into  the  details,  I 
now  propose  to  reply  to  certain  objections 
which  have  been  urged,  and  prove  that  it  is 
for  our  interest  to  adopt  this  plan.  One  of 
the  very  first  objections  raised  has  been 
off"ered  by  the  honorable  member  fjr  the 
Wellington  Divison  (Hon.  Mr.  SANBOR>f). 
He  has  stated  that  he  couM  not  vote  for 
Confederation  because  he  had  not  received 
the  sanction  of  his  constituents  to  change 
the  Constitution  of  his  country.  Whilst, 
however,  he  makes  this  statement,  the  same 
honorable  gentleman  proposes,  nevertheless, 
to  change  the  Constitution  which  he  declares 
his  electors  have  not  given  him  authority 
to  change  in  any  particular.  This  is  the 
resolution  which  he  proposes  in  amendment : 

UppSr  Canada  to  be  represented  in  the  Legis- 
lative Council  by  twenty-four  elective  members, 
and  Lower  Canada  by  twenty-four  elective  mem- 
bers, and  the  Maritime  Provinces  by  twenty-four 
members,  corresponding  with  the  twenty-four 
elective  members  in  each  section  of  Canada,  of 
which  Nova  Scotia  shall  have  ten,  New  Bruns- 
wick ten,  and  Prince  Edward  Island  shall  have 
four,  and  the  present  members  of  the  Legislative 
Council  of  Canada,  as  well  life  members  as  elec- 
tive members,  shall    be    members   of  the   first 


182 


Legislative  Council  of  the  Federal  Parliament, 
the  appointed  members  to  remain  for  life,  and 
the  elective  members  for  eight  years  from  the 
date  of  their  election,  unless  removed  by  death  or 
other  cause ;  their  successors  to  be  elected  by  the 
same  divisions  and  electors  as  have  elected  them. 

Well,  honorable  gentlemen,  if  tlie  honorable 
member  from  Wellington  has  not  received 
authority  to  change  the  Constitution  of  this 
country,  certainly  he  has  not  the  right  to 
make  the  amendment  which  he  proposes,  an 
amendment  which  is  full  of  contradiction. 
The  honorable  gentleman  says  that  he  has 
no  objection  to  vote  for  Confederation  after 
having  consulted  his  electors.  Well,  although 
he  maj  not  have  much  faith  in  the  maxim 
Vox  populi,  vox  Dei,  the  honorable  member 
has  declared  that  the  rule  of  his  conduct 
has  always  been,  Saliis  popxili  snprenia  lex. 
I  have  no  doulDt,  however,  that  he  would 
say,  JSuIus  meics  suprema  lex  est,  if  he  were 
appointed  a  life  member,  and  that  he  would 
have  no  scruple  as  regards  amending  the 
Constitution.  The  same  argument  has  been 
urged  by  the  honorable  member  for  Lanau- 
diere  (Hon.  Mr.  Olivier).  Well,  I  think 
that  that  honorable  gentleman  will  not, 
without  difficulty,  extricate  himself  from 
the  dilemma  in  which  I  am  about  to  place 
him.  He  has  also  stated  that  he  had  receiv- 
ed no  authority  from  his  constituents  to 
alter  the  Constitution.  If  he  has  not  re- 
ceived this  authority,  he  ought  to  vote 
against  the  amendment  which  is  now  pro- 
posed, the  object  of  which  is  to  alter  the 
Constitution.  If  this  objection  were  a  serious 
one,  why  do  not  members  who  are  desirous 
of  consulting  their  electors  resign  their 
seats,  and  seek  re-election  on  this  question, 
instead  of  setting  the  whole  country  in  a 
blaze  by  a  dissolution  ?  But  no,  they  fold 
their  arms  and  say  that  a  dissolution  does 
not  alFcct  them,  the  Council  would  not  be 
affected  by  it.  They  are  not,  then,  serious  in 
asking  for  an  appeal  to  the  people.  The  hon. 
member  for  Grandvillc  (Hon.  Mr.  Letellieb 
DE  St.  Just)  has  also  read  something  to  the 
same  purpose.  I  call  upon  him,  then,  to 
resign  his  seat  and  to  consult  his  constitu- 
ents ;  but  as  he  has  already  tried  the  experi- 
ment lately  in  two  important  places  in  his 
division,  he  knows  that  the  ground  trembles 
under  his  feet.  I  do  not  think  ho  would 
care  to  make  the  trial,  as  the  result  might 
be  very  far  from  gratifying. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
' — I  am  ready  to  resign  to-moriow,  if  you 


will   come   and   contest   the   division    with 
me. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU— I  will  not 
go  myself,  but  others  will,  and  I  venture  (o 
predict  that  you  will  be  left  at  home.     I 
trust,  then,  that  we  shall  hear  no  more  about 
this  want  of  authority  to  alter  the  Constitu- 
tion,   for   it  is   only   a   roundabout  way  of 
defeating  the  scheme  of  Confederation,  out 
of  pure  party  feeling.     It  lias  also  been  said 
that  the  electors  were  taken   by   surprise, 
and  that  they  did  not  know  what  was  being 
done — that  they  did  not  know  what  the  plan 
of  Confederation  was  until  it  was  discussed 
here  ;  but  those  who  have  taken  part  in  pub- 
lic affairs  since  1858  cannot  say  this,  for  the 
question  has  been  laid  before  the  country 
for  discussion  several  times  since  that  period, 
and    always   by   official  act.s.     No    one  has 
forgotten  the  celebrated  speech  made  by  the 
Hon.  Mr.  Galt,  in  1858,  when  he   join- 
ed  the  Cartier-Macdonald  Ministry,  in 
which  he  declared  himself  to  be  in  favor 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  provinces.  It  has 
not  been  forgotten  that  Hon.  Messrs.  GtALT, 
Cartier  and  Ross  then  made  a  voyage  to 
England  to  lay  before  the  Minister  for  the 
Colonies  their  views  on  the  subject  of  Con- 
federation.    It  is  true  that  from  that  period 
up  to  last  year,  but  little  was  said  about  it, 
because  there  had   been   a  change  in   the 
English  Government,  and  it  was  necessary 
to  recommence  all  that  had  been  done  ;  but 
if  the  question  was  not  talked  about  in  Eng- 
land, it  was  not  allowed  to  sleep  here.  No  one 
has  forgotten  tlie  Speech  from  the  Throne, 
delivered  in  Toronto  in  1858,  by  Sir  Epmund 
Head,  in  which  ho  spoke  of  the  necessity 
of  enquiring  into  the  matter,  and  laying  it 
before  the  country.     Most  certainly  no  better 
means  of  submitting  it  to  the  people  could 
have  been  adopted.     Subsequently  the  ques- 
tion  was   mooted  again   and  again  in  the 
House  of  Assembly  up  to  the  time  when, 
governments    succeeding    each    other   like 
ilashes  of  lighting,  it  became  necessary  to 
have  recourse  to  a  coalition,  in  order  to  put 
an  end  to  the  anarchy  which  prevailed  in 
the   political  affairs  of  the   country.     The 
coalition  in  question  was  based  on  the  prin- 
ciple of   Confederation,     The  mcmbci's   of 
that  Government,  by  a  happy  and  unusual 
concurrence  of  circumstances,  had  an  oppor- 
tunity of  mcctitg  at  the  Charlottotown  Con- 
ference to  discuss  the  question,  and  enter 
slightly  upon  the  subject  of  a  general  Con- 
federation.    They    again    met    at   Quebec, 


183 


together  with  all  the  delegates  from  the 
Lower  Provinces,  and  the  result  of  their 
labors  is  the  plan  which  is  now  laid  before 
us.  But  there  is  more  to  be  said,  for  before 
the  present  Ministry  had  entered  upon  the 
consideration  of  the  plan,  with  their  col- 
leagues of  the  Gulf  provinces,  His  Excellency 
had  alluded  to  it  in  his  Speech,  and  had  said 
that  it  was  absolutely  necessary  that  a  con- 
clusion on  the  subject  should  be  come  to. 
And  besides,  the  leading  papers  of  this  pro- 
vince and  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  have 
long  been  engaged  in  the  discussion  of  the 
question.  The  details  have  been  examined 
in  all  their  bearings  to  satiety.  In  view  of 
all  these  facts,  I  would  ask  how  it  can  be 
said  that  the  people  do  not  know  what  the 
question  is  ?  No  ;  thid  is  merely  a  pretext 
which  is  made  use  of  to  overthrow  the  plan. 
But  another  fact  which  goes  to  prove  that 
the  people  have  not  been  taken  by  surprise 
in  this  matter  is,  that  within  the  last  ten 
months,  there  have  been  twelve  elections  of 
legislative  councillors,  and  it  cannot  be 
said. that  when  those  elections  took  place, 
the  question  of  Confederation  was  not  before 
the  public.  This  would  be  to  state  a  false- 
hood in  the  full  glare  of  noonday.  The  hon. 
member  for  Lanaudi^re(Hon.  Mr.  Olivier), 
yesterday  said  that  a  Montreal  paper  had 
stated  that  he  had  declared  himself  opposed 
to  Confederation,  and  he  hastened  to  con- 
tradict the  assertion.  But  I  must  say  that 
when  he  appeared  before  his  constituents 
and  talked  of  retrograde  steps  —when  he  said 
that,  for  his  part,  he  should  consider  it  a 
step  back  in  civilization,  if  he  voted  against 
the  election  of  members  of  this  House,  I 
consider  that  it  was  idle  cf  him  to  say  that 
he  had  not  declared  himself  opposed  to  Con- 
federation. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— The  details. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU— Details 
and  principle.  I  say  then  that  at  the  elec- 
tions which  have  taken  place,  the  members 
elected,  unless  they  did  not  choose  to  do 
their  duty,  must  have  spoken  of  the  Con- 
federation, and  above  all,  of  the  manner  in 
which  the  Legislative  Council  would  be 
treated  in  that  Confederation.  And  if  these 
details  were  entered  into,  the  people  are 
acquainted  with  the  subject  in  question. 
And  not  only  have  there  been  elections,  but 
there  have  been  public  meetings  in  large 
numbers  throughout  the  whole  country, — 
that  is  to  say,  wherever  the  opponents  of 
Confederation  could  get  them  up  without 


danger  to  themselves  ;  and  at  all  these  meet- 
ings they  did  not  require  to  be  forced   to 
speak   of  Confederation,   and   that  in   the 
most  unfavorable  terms  possible.     It  is  true 
that  matters  were  not  represented  on  those 
occasions  in  their  true  light,  but  the  people 
at  any  rate  knew  what  subject  was  under 
discussion.      The    honorable    member    for 
"Wellington  (Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn)  laid  great 
stress  on  the  danger  which  might  be  incur- 
red by  the  Protestant  minority  in  the  local 
legislation  of  Lower  Canada.     He  fears  that 
they  may  not  be  sufficiently  protected  by  the 
Catholic  majority  m  respect  of  their  reli- 
gion, their  schools  and  possibly  their   pro- 
perty.    I  am  astonished  to  hear  such  lan- 
guage from  the  lips  of  a   man  who,  like 
myself,    represents   a    division    more    than 
one-half   of    the    population    of  which    is 
French  Canadian  and  Catholic,  for  that  fact 
in  itself  is  a  proof  of  the  liberality  of  our 
fellow-countrymen.      I  heard   that   remark 
with  pain  ;  but  I  can  tell  him  that  the  Pro- 
testant   minority   of  Lower    Canada  have 
nothing  to  fear  from  the  Catholic  majority 
of  that  province  :  their'religion  is  guaranteed 
by  treaty,  and  their  schools  and  the  rights 
which  may  be  connected  with  them,  are  to 
be  settled  by  legislation  to  take  place  here- 
after, and  when  that  legislation  is  laid  before 
the  Houses,  those  members  who  so  greatly 
tremble  now  for  the  rights  of  the  Protes- 
tant minority  will  have  an  opportunity  of 
protecting  that   minority ;    they  may  then 
urge  their  reasons,  and  insist  that  the   Pro- 
testants shall  not  be  placed  in  a  position  of 
the  slightest   danger.     But  even  granting 
that  the  Protestants  were  wronged  by  the  Lo- 
cal Legislature  of  Lower  Canada,  could  they 
not  avail  themselves  of  the  protection  of  the 
Federal  Legislature  ?     And  would  not  the 
Federal  Government  exerciss  strict  surveil- 
lance over  the  action  of  the  local  legislatures 
in  these  matters  ?    Why  should  it  be  sought 
to  give  existr:nce  to  imaginary  fears  in  Lower 
Canada  ?      I    say  imaginary,   because    the 
liberality  of  the  inhabitants  of  Lower  Cana- 
da— a  liberality  of  which  they  gave  proof 
long,  long  ago,  by  enacting  the  emancipa- 
tion of  the  Jews  before  any  other  nation  in 
the  world  had  dreamed  of  such  a  measure — 
is  well  known.     No ;  far  from  wishing   to 
oppress    other    nationalities,    all    that    the 
French  Canadians  ask   is  to   live  at  peace 
with  all  the  world ;  they  are  quite  willing 
that  they  should  enjoy  their  rights,  provi:;ed 
that  all  live   peaceably   together.     (Hear.) 


184 


I  cannot  refrain  from  saying  a  word  as  to 
the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada,  and  as  to 
the  liberality  evinced  towards  them  by  the 
French  and  Catholic  population.  It  is 
feared  that  we  may  combine  together  in 
order  to  treat  them  unjustly,  I  may  be 
wrong  in  referring  to  the  fact,  but  it  is  true 
that  the  French  Canadians  have  always  lived 
on  more  cordial  terms  with  the  English 
Protestants  than  with  the  Irish,  who  are 
nevertheless  of  the  same  religion,  and  of  the 
same  belief  as  themselves.  If  this  good  feel- 
ing has  always  existed,  what  is  there  to  fear  ? 
Thehon.  member  for  Lanauditire  (Hon.  Mr. 
Olivier)  has  said,  that  the  plan  of  Con- 
federation vfas  not  necessary,  and  in  that  he 
agreed  with  the  hon.  member  for  Grand- 
ville  (Hon.  Mr.  Letellier).  He  has  stated 
that  it  would  have  been  possible  to  regulate 
the  difficulties  which  we  have  witnessed, 
without  having  recourse  to  Confederation, 
from  the  fact  that  many  of  these  difficulties 
arose  from  the  hatred  existing  between  cer- 
tain individuals.  Now,  for  my  part,  I  do 
not  believe  that  our  political  men  were 
actuated  by  motives  of  mutual  hatred.  When 
I  witnessed  the  struggles  which  occurred  in 
the  House  of  Assembly,  the  votes  of  want 
of  confidence  which  were  proposed,  I  always 
felt  that  tho.-c  who  proposed  them  gave  good 
reasons  for  so  doing.  But  I  was  not  aware 
of  the  existence  of  hatred  or  personal 
jealousy  between  the  parties,  and  tliat  upon 
the  removal  of  such  feelings,  the  difficulties 
might  Lc  easily  overcome.  But  the  state- 
ment is  made  simply  for  want  of  any  sound 
arpurucnts  atrainst  Confederation.  The  same 
hon.  member  also  stated,  that  the  minorities 
in  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  wi.«hed  to 
know  the  fate  reserved  fur  them,  before 
voting  for  Confederation.  If  he  had  reflect- 
ed a  little,  he  would  have  learned  that  the 
fate  of  the  minorities  will  be  defined  by  the 
law,  that  their  religion  is  guaranteed  by 
treaties,  and  that  they  will  be  protected  by  the 
viirilance  of  the  Federal  Government,  which 
W'i'A  never  permit  tlie  minority  oi  one  i)or- 
tion  of  the  Confederation  to  be  oppressed 
by  the  majority.  The  hon.  member  also 
contends  that  the  local  governments  ought 
to  have  larger  powers  than  those  proposed 
to  bo  conferred  upon  them,  and  that  the 
Federal  (lovcrnmcnt  ought  to  have  fewer 
powers.  To  In-ar  him,  one  cannot  help 
tliinking  that  the  experience  of  history  is 
entirely  lost  on  ccrdiiii  individuals.  He 
must  have  boon  aware,  however,  thni  it  is  in 


reference  to  the  rights  of  particular  states, 
that  civil  war  now  exists  in  the  United 
States;  neverth>,less,  he  would  implant  in 
this  country  the  same  germ  of  discord.  He 
would  have  more  power  below  and  less 
authority  above.  For  my  part  I  say  the 
very  contrary,  if  we  wish  to  have  a  strong 
Government  capable  of  enforcing  respect  for 
its  authority  when  it  shall  be  necessary  to 
enforce  it.  The  hon.  member  also  stated 
that  he  has  no  confidence  in  the  exercise  of 
the  powers  of  the  Federal  Government, 
because  it  would  be  surrounded  by  a  clique. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  did  not  say  that 
would  be  the  case,  but  that,  theoretically,  it 
might  occur,  and  that  if  it  were  surrounded 
by  a  clique,  the  rights  of  Lower  Canada 
would  be  in  danger. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU— That 
makes  no  difference ;  for  he  stated  that  he 
feared  the  Government  would  be  surrounded 
by  a  clique.  But  is  it  not  the  national 
representation  that  will  surround  the  Federal 
Government  ?  Is  that  a  clique  ?  To  sa^' 
that  our  Government  is  a  clique,  is  to  vilify 
the  institutions  of  the  country.  The  Govern- 
ment will  be  responsible  to  the  Legislature. 
Lotus  never  lose  sight  of  tl^e  fact,  that  our 
national  representatives  will  always  see  that 
Lower  Canada  shall  have  in  the  Federal 
Government  one,  or  perhaps  two,  representa- 
tives— the  number  is  not  of  importance. 
What  is  of  importance  is,  that  such  one,  or 
such  two  members,  should  represent  in  her 
Executive  Council  the  national  representa- 
tion, which  will  be  composed  of  05  members, 
in  the  Federal  Legislature.  And  this,  for- 
sooth, is  called  a  clique  I  I  insist  somewhat 
at  length  upon  this  pAint,  because  the  opera- 
tion of  the  principle  of  responsible  govern- 
ment in  the  Federal  Legislature  is  lost  sijrht 
of.  I  beg  to  call  the  attention  of  Lower 
Canada  members  to  this.  Suppose  it  wore 
proposed  to  adopt  a  law  in  the  Federal  Legis- 
lature calculated  to  injure  Lower  Canada, 
our  05  representatives  in  the  House  oi' 
Commons  discuss  the  law,  and  decide  tiiat 
they  must  oppose  it;  they  at  onae  commu- 
nicate with  the  members  of  the  Govcrmnent 
representing  J^ower  Canada,  and  inform  them 
that  thoy  cannot  accept  th'i  measure,  and 
that  if  it  be  passed,  they  will  coalesce  with 
the  minority,  whii'h  always  exists  under 
responsible  government,  and  that  they  will 
overthrow  the  Ministry.  Such  in  the  weiglit 
of  our  influence  in  the  I'^cdora!  GovernnnMit  ; 
and   if  this  wore    not    lost    siirht    of,  lliere 


185 


would  be  no  grounds  for  fear.  The  influ- 
ence of  Lower  Canada  will  enable  her  to 
make  and  unmake  governments  at  pleasure, 
when  her  interests  shall  be  at  stake  or 
threatened.  And  if  the  importance  of  this 
responsibility  of  the  Federal  Government 
were  well  understood,  there  would  be  no 
anxiety  about  our  institutions.  The  hon. 
member  also  stated  that  he  did  not  want  to 
make  a  backward  step  in  relation  to  the 
election  of  the  members  of  the  Legislative 
Council.  In  reply  to  that,  I  would  state 
that  the  elective  principle,  as  applied  to  the 
Legislative  Council,  becomes  unnecessary  in 
view  of  the  numerical  strength  of  Lower 
Canada  in  the  Federal  Parliament,  for  the 
House  of  Commons  is  the  body  that  will 
make  and  unmake  ministers.  Why  have 
the  elective  principle  for  the  Legislative 
Council,  since  we  shall  have  it  for  the  House 
of  Commons,  since  we  shall  have  a  responsi- 
ble Government  and  a  Federal  Government, 
composed  of  members  elected  by  the  people  ? 
The  hon.  member  has  stated  that  he  desired 
to  advance  with  the  intellect  of  the  people, 
and  not  to  take  a  backward  step.  These 
are  great  words — the  intellect  of  the  people  ! 
progress !  But  for  my  part,  I  do  not  hesi- 
tate to  assert,  that  the  people  will  gladly 
sacrifice  the  election  of  the  members  of  the 
Legislative  Council,  in  view  of  the  control 
of  all  the  matters  I  mentioned  before. 
The  hon.  member  has  said  that  the  elective 
principle  would  have  been  the  safe-guard  of 
Lower  Canada.  I  can  understand  this  to  be 
the  case  in  a  House  which  is  able  to  make 
and  unmake  administrations,  but  in  a  House 
which  is  indissoluble,  I  cannot  discover  its 
importance.  The  safety  of  Lower  Canada 
depends,  not  on  the  elective  principle,  but 
on  the  responsibility  of  the  members  of  the 
Executive  to  the  House  of  Commons.  I  may 
be  permitted  to  say  one  word  on  the  subject 
of  the  elective  right,  as  it  is  the  grand  pan- 
acea for  all  the  ills  incident  to  humanity. 
We  must  not  shut  our  eyes  against  evidence. 
Have  we,  since  the  union  of  several  counties 
to  form  electoral  divisions,  seen  persons  of 
independent  fortune  and  character,  who  do 
not  seek  to  make  a  gainful  pursuit  of  politics, 
offer  themselves  for  election  to  the  Legislative 
Council  ?  I  acknowledge  that  the  elections 
to  seats  in  the  Legislative  Council  which 
have  taken  place  so  far  have  had  excellent 
results  :  the  members  sent  hither  by  their 
constituencies  have  added  new  lustre  to  the 
body  ;    but  has  it  not  now  become  almost 

25 


impossible  to  get  an  independent  man  to 
stand  ?  The  contested  elections  in  the  large 
divisions  have  disgusted  many  who  would  do 
honor  to  the  country,  but  who  will  not  risk 
their  fortune  in  an  election  ;  and  if  we  see 
such  a  result  already,  what  is  it  likely  to  be 
hereafter  ?  We  shall  see  political  intriguers 
making  their  own  of  the  electoral  divisions 
as  a  living — living  by  politics  and  for  politics 
only.  We  shall  see  what  has  been  seen  in 
other  countries — people  embracing  political 
life  as  a  shield  against  their  creditors,  shel- 
tering themselves  under  its  £egis  against 
the  law.  Such  men  will  fill  this  House, 
to  the  exclusion  of  honor  and  honesty,  I 
say  again,  those  who  now  compose  this 
House  are  honorable  men,  who  are  a 
credit  to  their  country  —  in  time,  their 
seats  will  be  filled  by  political  intriguers. 
Another,  and  a  final  objection  to  Confeder- 
ation has  been  made,  namely^  that  having 
it,  we  shall  not  have  increased  the  means  oi 
defence,  nor  the  resources  of  the  country. 
If  those  who  talk  thus  had  taken  time  to 
consider  the  matter  more  carefully,  they 
would  not  hold  this  opinion.  It  is  evident 
that  with  the  means  of  communication  already 
provided,  and  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  if 
a  section  of  Upper  Canada  should  be  invaded 
by  the  enemy,  the  combined  forces  of  the 
Confederation  might  be  transported  to  the 
point  threatened  in  a  very  short  time,  and 
we  would  be  in  a  position  to  show  the  enemy 
that  united  we  are  strong.  We  should  be 
wilfully  blind  not  to  see  this.  It  has  also 
been  alleged  that  in  order  to  increase  our 
means  of  defence,  we  should  build  the  North 
Shore  Railway,  and  that  the  Government 
who  do  not  this  are  ineflScient  and  renegades 
to  their  country. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER — I  never  made  use 
of  that  expression. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU— True,  you 
did  not  make  use  of  the  expression,  but  what 
you  said  amounted  to  that  in  meaning. 
According  to  the  hon.  member,  the  North 
chore  Railway  would  be  the  salvation  of  the 
country.  I  believe  the  hon.  meaiber  resides 
somewhere  in  the  north,  on  the  line  of  that 
road.  (Hear,  and  laughter.)  I  believe  that 
his  motto  is,  Salus  mea  suprema  lex  est. — 
(All  for  myself,  nothing  for  others.)  The 
North  Shore  Railway  has  had,  and  may  again 
have,  its  advantages ;  and  as  a  channel  of 
communication  I  should  be  glad  to  see  it 
built,  but  at  present  the  building  of  it  would 
cost  too  dear.     When  the  military  defences 


186 


projected  by  the  present  Administration  for 
the  protection  of  the  South  Side  Railway 
are  completed,  the  north  side  road  will  not 
be  required.  The  lion,  menaber  has  also 
said  that  he  is  desirous  of  giving  the  inhabi- 
tants of  the  country  time  to  reflect  on  and 
study  the  scheme  of  Confederation,  and  that 
he  does  not  see  why  we  should  wish  to  urge 
on  the  passing  of  the  ueasurc  so  strenuously. 
I  have  already  observed  that  a  plan  was 
submitted  to  the  Mother  Country  some  years 
ago,  but  that  a  change  of  ministers  then  had 
rendered  the  scheme  abortive.  The  same 
thing  may  happen  again  ;  and  if  we  consider 
the  age  of  the  Premier  of  England,  and  the 
uncertain  position  in  which  his  Cabinet 
would  stand  if  he  should  die,  it  will  be  plain 
that  we  have  no  time  to  lose.  This  is  a 
very  sufficient  reason  for  urging  on  the 
measure  in  the  minds  of  those  who  hold  that 
it  is  destined  to  save  the  country.  One  more 
remark  and  I  have  done.  The  hon.  member 
(Hon.  Mr.  Olivier)  has  adjured  us  not 
to  wound  the  susceptible  feelings  of  our 
neighbors, — not  to  give  umbrage  to  their 
•sensitiveness, — by  entering  into  a  Confed- 
eration which  might  give  them  a  pretext 
Sfor  carrying  out  the  Monroe  doctrine. 
,This  is,  I  think,  the  most  paltry  reason 
^that  could  be  alleged  in  discussing  the 
most  important  question  of  legislation 
which  has  ever  arisen  on  this  conti- 
nent, so  far  as  the  fate  of  Canada  is  con- 
cerned. I  think  that  the  measure  is  in 
every  respect  suitable  and  advantageous  to 
Canada.  Any  attempt  to  obstruct  it  by 
such  considerations,  is  a  proof  of  pusillani- 
mity, and  I  almost  feel  ashamed  to  hear  the 
expression  of  them  from  the  lips  of  a  French 
Canadian.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mb.  LETELLIER  BE  ST.  JUST 
— Honorable  Gentlemen,  after  the  speech 
which  we  have  just  heard,  I  hope  a  few 
words  will  be  allowed  to  me,  for  I  have 
been,  I  must  say,  perfectly  astonished  to 
hear  such  statements  fall  from  the  lips  of 
the  hon.  member  who  has  just  resumed  his 
Beat ;  and  if  my  object  was  to  reply  to  him, 
I  might  satisfy  myself  with  saying  ; — 

Oai.ANDO,  in  his  frenzy,  I  saw, 
E.xpend  all  his  strength  imd  toil, 

From  the  hold  of  their  mother  earth  to  draw, 
Trees  that  clave  not  to  the  soil. 

It  is  most  certaiuly  my  right,  I  consider, 
when  I  see  an  honorable  member  rise  ia  his 
place,  and  say  that  we,  the  councillors  elect- 
ed by  the  people,  aio  nobody  because  our 


pouches  are  not  so  well  lined  as  those 
of  certain  honorable  members,  to  express 
my  astonishment  at  the  use  of  such  lan- 
guage ;  for  we  should  be  permitted  to  hold 
the  opinion,  that  the  value  of  the  man  is  not 
to  be  measured  by  the  amount  of  money 
which  he  may  happen  to  possess.  There  is 
such  a  thing  as  a  nobility  of  education  and 
of  intellect,  as  well  as  a  moneyed  aristocracy, 
and  for  my  part,  I  consider  that  the  former  is 
quite  equal  to  the  latter.  In  all  countries 
•in  the  world  education  has  produced  a  feel- 
ing of  devotion  to  the  country,  while  riches 
alone  have  often  produced  but  sordid  avarice. 
The  hon.  member  pretends  that  if  the  elec- 
tive principle  continues  to  be  applied  to  the 
Legislative  Coutcil,  the  result  will  very  soon 
be  t!,at  all  those  adventurers  who  seek  to 
live  in  political  life  and  by  political  life,  will 
drive  from  our  midst  all  men  of  merit,  and 
will  then  control  the  afiFairs  of  the  country. 
For  my  part,  I  by  no  means  stand  in  dread 
of  such  a  result,  for  I  know  that  there  ia  too 
much  good  sense  among  the  people  to  make 
it  possible  that  they  will  ever  consent  to 
serve  as  a  stepping-stone  to  political  adven- 
turers in  pursuit  of  the  advancement  of  their 
own  personal  prospects  and  fortune  in  public 
life.  I  am  well  aware  that  some  political  ad- 
venturers do  occasionally  succeed  in  imposing 
upon  the  people  by  means  of  fine  promises 
and  a  hypocritical  exterior  ;  but  the  political 
life  of  such  individuals  has  never  been  of 
long  duration,  and  the  results  of  the  election 
of  legislative  councillors  by  the  people 
remain  to  prove  the  complete  absence  of 
foundation  for  the  fears  expressed  by  the 
honorable  member.  I  think,  moreover,  that 
the  results  which  have  hitherto  obtained 
from  the  application  of  the  elective  principle 
to  this  House,  and  from  the  election  of  the 
members  who  now  sit  in  it,  are  satisfactory 
and  do  no  dishonor  to  this  honorable  House. 
At  any  rate  I  never  yet  heard  such  a  thing 
asserted.  The  hon,  member  maintains  that 
it  is  not  necessary  that  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil should  be  elective,  because  that  body  is 
intended,  or  has  for  its  mission,  to  act  as  a 
counterpoise  between  the  Executive  and  the 
Lower  House.  But  that  state  of  affairs 
exists  at  the  present  day, — and  when  all 
acknowledge  it, — when  none  comiilain  of  the 
present  system — we  are  told  that  tliis  privilege 
is  to  be  taken  away  from  the  people  in  order 
that  it  may  be  restored  to  the  Crown  !  Now, 
I  say  that  such  a  proceeding  is  a  stop  ia  a 
backward  direction,  and  a  retrogrcsoion  from 


187 


the  advancement  of  the  age.  Is  it  because 
certain  members  of  the  Council  have  never 
been  successful  in  their  eflForts  to  be  elected 
for  any  county  whatever,  that  they  wish  to 
deprive  the  people  of  the  right  of  electing 
their  representatives  ?  But  is  it  supposed 
that  by  giving  the  Crown  the  right  of  ap- 
pointing legislative  councillors,  the  services 
of  more  able,  more  upright,  and  more  honor- 
able men  will  be  secured,  than  if  the  people 
were  allowed  to  elect  them  ?  When  the 
Legislative  Council  was  made  elective,  those 
who  prepared  the  law  were  of  the  same  opinion 
as  the  honorable  member  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F. 
Belleau)  that  a  rich  man  must  of  necessity 
be  a  man  ot  greater  talent  than  one  less 
blessed  with  this  world's  goods,  and,  in  order 
that  the  people  night  not  err  in  their  selec- 
tion, they  enacted  that  every  member  elected 
to  the  Legislative  Council  should  possess  at 
least  one  thousand  pounds  in  real  property ; 
but  now,  in  the  scheme  of  Confederation, 
that  amount  is  reduced  by  one-half,  and  it 
is  thereby  admitted  that  the  possession  of 
riches  is  not  an  indispensable  condition  to 
the  possession  of  talent.  The  honorable 
member  endeavored  to  justify  the  haste 
with  which  it  is  sought  to  push  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  through,  by  declar 
ing  that  Lord  Palmerston  is  a  very  aged 
man,  and  that  his  Ministry  is  quavering  in 
the  balance.  So,  because  the  Prime  Minis- 
ter of  England  is  old,  we  are  to  be  compelled 
to  swallow  the  pill  without  even  being  allowed 
time  to  enquire  whether  it  is  suited  to  our 
case  or  not.  It  must  be  acknowledged  that 
this  is  a  very  poor  argument.  As  to  the  fear 
of  seeing  the  scheme  of  Confederation  thrown 
cut  in  England,  in  case  of  any  change  taking 
place  in  the  constitution  of  the  Imperial 
Grovernment,  I  look  upon  it  as  entirely  chi- 
merical— for  if  Confederation  is  acceptable 
in  England  and  to  English  interests  now,  it 
will  be  just  as  acceptable  to  them  eight  or  ten 
months  hence  as  it  is  at  present.  If  the  plan 
is  a  useful  one,  in  an  English  point  of  view, 
it  will  be  carried  out,  let  what  Grovernment 
may  be  in  power.  Then  let  the  people  have 
time  to  consider  of  it.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber has  stated  that  there  have  been  twelve 
elections  to  the  Legislative  Council  since  the 
question  of  Confederation  has  been  mooted; 
but  those  elections  did  not  take  place  at  a 
period  subsequent  to  the  preparation  of  the 
scheme  of  Confederation,  and  consequently 
the  people  were  not  and  could  not  be 
acquainted  with  th?-  details.     The  result  of 


the  twelve  elections  in  question  was  neither 
favorable  nor  the  reverse  to  the  plan  of  Con- 
federation, for  that  plan  was  not  then  known. 
It  is  said  because  the  plan  was  distributed 
throughout  the  country,  that  therefore  it 
must  be  known.  But  how  could  it  be  so, 
especially  in  its  details,  when  we  every  day 
see  the  Government  greatly  embarrassed  at 
giving  explanations,  or  refusing  to  give  them, 
on  certain  points  ? — when,  for  instance,  we 
see  a  minister  in  one  House  state  that  the 
seigniorial  indemnity  will  be  paid  by  Lower 
Canada  alone,  whilst  it  is  declared  in  another 
House  that  that  debt  will  be  divided  between 
the  two  provinces? — when  we  see  ministers 
asking  for  time  to  reply  to  each  of  the  ques- 
tions put  to  them  respecting  this  scheme  ? 
How  can  the  people  be  acquainted  with  the 
local  constitutions  and  the  legislatures,  when 
the  ministers  themselves  would  appear  to 
know  nothing  about  them  ?  How  can  the 
people  know  in  what  matter  this  five  million 
dollars  balance  of  debt,  to  be  laid  upon  Can- 
ada, will  be  divided,  since  those  who  pre- 
pared the  scheme  themselves  do  not  know  ? 
And  there  is  a  mass  of  other  important 
details  which  ought  to  be  known  in  order  to 
be  able  to  pronounce  upon  the  merits  of  the 
measure,  such  as  the  proposed  law  in  relation 
to  education,  measures  of  defence,  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  &c.  We  are  told,  indeed, 
for  instance,  that  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada  and  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada 
will  be  protected,  in  so  far  as  relates  to  their 
school  system,  but  we  have  no  guarantee  of 
it ;  and  if  the  scheme  of  Confederation  is 
adopted  before  these  questions  are  settled, 
who  can  tell  us  that  the  Government  will 
have  as  complaisant  a  majority  to  settle  those 
questions  as  to  vote  Confederation  ?  There 
is  another  part  of  the  scheme  which  is  of  the 
highest  importance,  ana  respecting  which  we 
are  entitled  to  explanations  before  voting  for 
it,  and  that  is,  the  measures  to  be  taken  for 
the  defence  of  the  country.  It  is  important 
that  we  should  know  what  is  to  be  the  nature 
of  the  defence  which  it  is  proposed  to  organ- 
ize and  what  debt  we  are  to  incur  for  the 
purpose.  Why  not  let  us  have  the  why  and 
the  wherefore  of  the  whole  business  in  order 
that  we  may  come  to  a  sound  decision  as  to 
the  measure.  These  are  details  which  we 
ought  to  have. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— You  will  soon 
have  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
— It  is  stated  that   the  federal  union  pro- 


188 


vides  a  means  of  forming  a  great  people,  and 
of  raising  us  to  a  position  in  which  we  may 
take  a  place  among  the  nations  of  the  globe. 
But  if  into  that  people,  by  the  Constitution 
itself,  the  seeds  of  discord  are  introduced, 
will  any  one  believe  that  it  would  not  be 
better  to  live  apart,  as  at  the  present  time, 
than  to  live  together  with  disunion  in  our 
midst?     It  was  also  stated  that  on  entering 
into  the  Confederation  we   should  have  to 
reduce  our  import  duties  in  order  that  our 
tariff  might  agree  with  that  of  the  Lower 
Provinces.      But,   as   a   sequence    of  that 
statement,  we  must  enquire  upon  what  the 
effect  of  that  reduction  of  duties  will  fall. 
For  ray  part,  I  am  of  opinion  that  the  deficit 
which  that   reduction  of  our  revenue  will 
produce  will  have  to  be   filled    up   by  the 
agriculture  and  industry    of   Canada.      By 
setting  this  Confederation  going,  iu  order  to 
overcome  secondary  difificulties,  we  shall  be 
working  out  the  interests   of  the  English 
dealers  by  reducing  the  import  duties  one- 
half.      And  who   will    provide    the  balance 
which  we  shall  have  to  find  in  order  to  meet 
our    expeu  iture  ?      The    agriculturist    and 
the  artisan  of  this  country,  who  will  be  made 
to   meet   that   balance   by  direct   taxation. 
The  Lower  Provinces  are  not  agricultural 
countries,   and   we  are  told   that    we    shall 
barter  our  flour  for  the  produce   of  their 
mines  and  their  forests.     But  I  am  of  opin- 
ion that  it  is  not  by  enacting  political  mea- 
sures   that    the   course    of  trade    will    be 
changed.     Let  England  abandon  Canada  at 
one*!,  and  even  with  Confederation,  our  pro- 
ducts will  always  go  to  England,  because  it 
is  our  most  advantageous  market,  and  will 
always  continue  to  be  so.     So  also  will  it  be 
with  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia  ;  that 
is  to  say,  the  products  of  their  mines  will 
continue  to  seek  the  United  States  markets, 
because  tho.'^e  provinces  now  have  commer- 
cial relations  with  the  United  States.     Those 
Provinces  will   follow  the   general   laws  of 
commcicial   transactions    in    going   to   the 
United  States,  exactly  as  we  go  to  Europe 
to  obtain  there  the  goods  which  wc  require, 
and  to  dispose  of  our   products   in   return. 
But  to  return  to  the  question  of  the  tariff; 
I  say  that  we  must  needs  come  to  the  con- 
clusion that  the  deficit  created  by  the  lower- 
ing of  the  tariff  will  fall  0:1  the  agriculture 
and  industry  of  the  country,   and  that  an 
inferior   position    is   ascribed    to    them   in 
the   Confederation.     If   the    import    duties 
are    reduced  from  ten    to  eleven  per  cent. 


our    manufactures  will   be   denuded   of  all 
their  profit,  and  we  shall  prevent  capitalists 
from    establishing    themselves    in   Canada. 
This  will  be  an  immediate  consequence  of 
Confederation.     I  have  heard  it  said  that 
the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada  ought  to 
be    satisfied   with    their   prospects  for   the 
future,  because  we  have  always  acted  with 
liberality   towards   them.     But   that  is  no 
guarantee  for  them,  for  we  would  not  con- 
tent ourselves  with  a  mere  promise  to  act 
liberally,  if  we  considered  that  our  interest  or 
our  institutions  were  threatened  by  a  ma- 
jority differing  in   race   and   religion   from 
ourselves ;  and  in  any  case  that  is  not  the 
way  to  ensure  the  peace  of  the  country.     If 
we  establish  this  principle,  we  should  say  to 
the    Catholics  of  Upper  CanaJa  that  they 
ought  to  be  satisfied  with  the  lot  which  wc 
provide  for  them.    When  we  make  a  Consti- 
tution, we  must  in  the  first  place  settle  the 
political  and  religious  questions  which  divide 
the  populations  for  whom  the  Constitution  is 
devised ;  because  it  is  a  well  known  fact,  that 
it  is  religious  differences  which  have  caused 
the  greatest  troubles  and  the  greatest  diffi- 
culties which  have    agitated  the  people  in 
days  gone  by.     "We  must  learn   to  prevent 
them  for  the  future.  When  we  observe  a  man  . 
like  the  hon.  member  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  Bel- 
LEAu)  acknowledge  that  we  do  not  agree 
with  the  Irish,  despite  the   identity  of  our 
religious  belief,  it  may  easily  he   foreseen 
that  difficulties  will  arise  with  populations 
differing  from  us  iu  origin  aiid  belief.     We 
are  told  to  vote  Confederation  first,  and  that 
the  details  will  be  arranged  at  a  subsequent 
period  ;  that  a  measure  will  then  bo  brought 
down  to  I'egulate  the  sectional  or  sectarian 
difficulties.     I  am    quite   willing    to    admit 
that  such  a  measure  will  be  presented  ;  but, 
should  not  the  majority  choose  to  adopt  it, 
we  should  then  be  compelled  to  remain  with 
the  seeds  of  trouble  and  dissension,  which 
the  House  will  not  have  succeeded  in  eradi- 
cating,  implanted   among   us.      It   is   also 
asked  what  kind   of  Local  Government  we 
shall  have;  but  the  Govcru:i  cnt  will  make 
no  statement  respecting  it  until  C  nfcdera- 
tio  J  is  voted.     What  kind  of  a  Constitution, 
and  whit  Governor  we  shall  have  ?     What 
Governor  ?     Perhaps  that  is  where  the  great 
secret  lies,  for  I  believe  that  for  some  time 
past  the  idea  or  the  hope  of  being  governor 
has  filled  the  head  of  more  thau  one  politi- 
cal man.     What  is  to  be  the  amount  of  the 
Governor's    salary  r"      These  are   so    many 


189 


questions  in  respect  of  which  we  are  in  com- 
plete ignorance,  and  in  relation  to  which  the 
Government  will  say  nothing  whatever. 
And,  with  respect  to  the  constitution  of  the 
local  governments,  are  we,  in  case  the  Upper 
Canada  majority  choose  to  impose  their  ideas 
upon  us,  are  we,  I  say,  to  submit  to  them  ? 
Such  a  proceeding  would  not  be  fair  either  to 
us  or  to  the  country.  The  hon.  member  (Hon. 
Sir  i^ .  F.  Belleau)  tells  us  that  we  were  not 
sincere  in  asking  for  an  appeal  to  the  people, 
because  we  knew  that  dissolution  would  not 
reach  us.  Such  expressions  do  not  surprise 
me,  proceeding  as  they  do  from  a  man  who 
never  had  the  honor  ta  be  the  elected  repre- 
sentative of  the  people,  and  who  holds  his 
seat  by  the  favor  of  the  Crown,  but  I  lail  to 
discover  by  what  right  he  judges  us  io  such 
a  manner.  In  conclusion,  I  shall  move  the 
following  amendment : — 

That  all  the  words  after  "That''  in  the  first 
line  thereof  be  left  out,  and  that  the  following 
words  be  inserted  in  lieu  thereof,  viz: — ''The 
debate  on  the  motion  for  an  Address  to  Her 
Majesty  on  the  subject  of  a  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Colonies  be  postponed  until  such 
time  as  the  Government  shall  have  made  known 
to  this  House  :  1st.  The  measures  it  intends  to 
submit  to  the  Legislature  for  the  purpose  of 
organizing  the  local  governments  and  legisla- 
tures in  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  2nd.  The 
bill  on  the  subject  of  educatioa  which  it  intends 
to  submit  to  the  present  Parliament  for  the  pro- 
tection of  minorities  in  Upper  and  Lower  Cana- 
da. 3rd.  The  correspondence  between  the  Im- 
perial Government  and  the  Government  of  Cana- 
da, respecting  the  defence  of  the  province,  and 
what  measure  the  Government  intends  to  submit 
to  us  for  the  same  purpose.  4th.  In  what  man- 
ner the  Government  intends  to  divide  between 
the  Provinces  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  the 
balance  of  our  present  provincial  debt,  after  de- 
ducting the  $62;500, 000  payable  by  the  Federal 
Government,  and  which  will  be  the  items  assigned 
to  each  of  those  provinces.  5th.  The  report  of 
Mr.  Fleming  on  the  survey  for  the  Intercolonial 
Riilway." 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER -Before  proceed- 
ing to  a  vote,  I  will  ask  the  hon.  member 
(Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau)  who  proposed 
to  my  honorable  friend  (Hon.  Mr.  Letel- 
lier)  and  myself  to  resign  our  seats  if  we 
did  not  now  choose  to  vote  lor  Confedera- 
tion, and  submit  the  question  to  our  elec- 
tors, whether  the  debate  will  be  postponed 
until  our  elections  are  over  ? 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU— As  I  am 
not  a  member  of  the  Government,  it  will  be 
understood  that  T  cannot  reply  to  that  ques- 
tion.    I  did  not  propose  to  them  to  resign 


their  seata,  but  I  said  that  if  they  were 
serious  in  their  objections  they  might  resign 
and  submit  the  question  to  their  constituents 
by  presenting  themselves  for  reelection. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  understand  the 
object  of  the  hon.  member  in  giving  that 
advice.  He  would  wish  to  see  us  retire 
from  the  House  during  the  contest;  but  that 
is  a  trap  into  which  we  will  not  fall.  Sur- 
prise must  have  been  excited  that  I  did 
not  correct  all  the  inaccuracies  of  the  hon. 
member  when  he  spoke  of  what  I  had 
said ;  but  I  preferred  not  doing  so,  as  I 
should  have  had  to  take  up  nearly  every 
single  word  of  his  in  order  to  correct  it, 
as  he  distorted  and  altered  the  sense  of 
nearly  everything  that  I  said.  I  conceive 
that  a  blush  must  have  mantled  his  forehead 
as  he  concluded  his  speech. 

Hon.  3Ir.  Letellier  de  St.  Just's 
amendment  was  then  put  to  the  vote,  and 
lost  on  the  following  division  :^ — 

CoxTENTS — Hon.  Messieurs  Aikins,  Archam- 
baait,  Armstrong,  Bennett,  Bureau,  Chaffers, 
Cormier,  Currie,  A.  J.  Duchesnay,  Flint,  Leon- 
ard, Leslie,  Letellier  de  St.  Just,  Malhiot,  Olivier, 
Perrv,  Proalx,  Reesor,  Sevmour  and  Simpson. — 
20.  " 

No>.'-Co>:texts — Hon.  Messieurs  Alexander, 
Allan,  Armand,  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau,  Fergusson 
Blair,  Blake,  Boulton,  Boss^,  Bull,  Burnham, 
Campbell,  Christie,  Crawfard,  DeBeaujeu,  Dick- 
son, E.  H.  J.  Duchesnay,  Dumouchel,  Ferrier, 
Flint,  Gingras,  Guevermont,  Hamilton  (King- 
ston.) Hamilton  (Inkermar,)  Lacoste,  McCrea, 
McMaster,  Macpherson,  Mathesoa,  Mills,  Panet, 
Price,  Prud'homme,  Read,  Ross,  Shaw.  Skead, 
Sir  E.  P.  Tach^,  and  Wilson.~38 

And  the  Council  then  adjourned. 


Wednesday,  February  15,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  BUREAU  said— I  should  have 
refrained  from  addressing  the  House,  had  I 
not  heard  the  astounding  language  made  use 
of  by  the  hon.  member  opposite  to  me  (Sir 
N.  F.  Belleau).  He  has  spoken  to  us  of 
annexationists  and  republicans,  and  of  the 
dangers  with  which  they  menaced  the  coun- 
try. I  am  far  from  surprised  at  such  lan- 
guage on  his  part,  for  an  ardent  supporter  as 
he  is  of  the  present  Government,  who  desire 
to  effect  Confederation  with  a  view  to 
strengthen  the  monarchical  principle  in  this 
country,  he  is  doubtless  alarmed  at  the 
tendencies  of  some  of  the  members  of  this 


190 


Cabinet,  and  at  the  republican  sentiments  to 
which  they  gave  utterance.  I,  however, 
believe  that  the  annexationists  who  are  most 
to  be  feared  are  not  those  of  whom  he  speaks, 
those  who  boldly  and  openly  express  their 
opinion  on  the  questions  which  now  agitate 
the  country,  but  those  rather  who  endeavor 
by  all  possible  means,  to  sow  the  seeds  of 
discord  between  us  and  our  neighbors  in  the 
United  States,  and  to  plunge  us  into  war. 
Surely  those  who  boldly  proclaim  their 
opinions  to  the  whole  country,  cannot  be 
accused  of  disloyalty  when  they  do  it  with 
the  view  of  serving  their  country.  I  do  not 
believe  that  there  is  a  single  member  in  this 
House  who  would  wish  to  see  our  country 
annexed  to  the  United  States.  I  think,  on 
the  other  hand,  that  all  are  striving  to  find 
the  means  of  establishing  a  government  and 
a  political  condition  that  shall  bear  equitably 
on  all  sections  of  the  population  without 
distinction  of  race  or  creed — a  system  which 
will  secure  the  stability  of  our  institutions 
and  the  general  welfare  of  the  country.  The 
hon.  gentleman  has  also  referred  to  the 
dangers  of  the  elective  system  as  applied  to 
this  House,  because  scheming  politicians 
without  a  stake  in  the  country  might  acquire 
popularity,  and  work  their  way  into  the 
House.  Let  that  hon.  gentleman  read  the 
history  of  his  country,  and  he  will  find  that 
the  principal  men  who  have  occupied  the 
leading  political  positions  were  children  of 
the  people,  who,  thanks  to  their  education, 
their  talents  and  their  perseverance,  have 
attained  to  the  control  of  the  business  of  the 
country.  Let  him  call  to  mind  the  history 
of  the  past,  and  he  will  remember  that  there 
was  a  time  when  the  Legislative  Council  had 
become  an  obstacle  to  all  reform  and  to  all 
progress.  But  thanks  to  our  energy  and  to 
our  perseverance,  a  liberal  ministry  has  been 
enabled  to  obtain  the  longsought-for  reforms. 
The  Lafontaine-Baldwin  Administration, 
seeing  that  there  was  no  possibility  of  obtain- 
ing reforms  on  account  of  the  obstacles  raised 
by  the  Legislative  Council  as  then  constitu- 
ted, had  recourse  to  the  appointment  of  new 
liberal  councillors ;  und  by  the  adhesion  of 
the  older  ones,  they  succeeded  in  carrying 
their  measures.  The  times  at  which  these 
appointments  were  made,  were  as  follows  : — 
In  1848,  the  Sherwood  Hadolky  Admin- 
istration appointed  the  Hon.  I>.  B.  VlOKll. 
In  this  case  wc  had  a  Liberal  nominated  by 
a  Tory  MiuLstry.  Afterwards,  on  the  ucctssion 
of  the  Lafontai.nk-Baldwin  Ministry,  Sir 


E.'P.  TACut  and  the  Hon.  Messsrs.  James 
Leslie,  Quesnel,  Bourret,  Df.Beaujeu, 
Ro^s,  Mkthot,  J.  E.  TuRGEON,  Mills, 
Crane,  Jones  and  Wylie,  were  appointed. 
Had  it  not  been  for  the  nomination  of  these 
members,  and  the  adhesion  given  by  some 
others,  it  would  have  been  impossible  to 
reform  the  Lesrislative  Council.  But  what 
results  may  be  anticipated  from  the  proposed 
constitution  of  the  Federal  Legislative  Coun- 
cil ?  By  limiting  the  number  of  the  mem- 
bers of  this  House,  the  prerogative  of  the 
Crown  is,  in  fact,  restricted,  and  a  system  is 
adopted,  exactly  the  reverse  of  thai  which 
exists  in  England.  And  in  the  event  of 
serious  difficulties  arising  between  the  House 
of  Couimors  and  the  Upper  House,  what 
would  happen  ?  The  same  thing  would 
happen  which  has  already  occurred  before, 
but  with  this  diflFerence,  that  the  Crown 
would  not  have  the  power  of  infusing  new 
elements,  and  legislation  would  thus  be  at  a 
stand-still.  The  only  course  to  be  pursued 
under  those  circumstances  will  be  to  ask  the 
Imperial  Government  to  amend  the  consti- 
tution of  the  Council,  as  tlio  people  will  be 
powerless  from  our  having  deprived  them  of 
the  right  of  electing  councillors.  For  my 
part,  I  am  convinced  that  tliis  new  system 
will  not  be  productive  of  beneficial  results. 
I  do  not  propose  to  repeat  here  al!  the  argu- 
ments which  have  been  already  urged 
against  the  projected  changes;  but  I  must 
say,  asholding  my  authority  from  the  people, 
that  the  question  of  Confederation  has 
never  been  adverted  to  during  the  two  elec- 
tions which  I  have  passed  through,  and  that, 
therefore,  I  do  not  think  that  my  constitu- 
ents expressed  their  opinion  on  this  question 
when  they  elected  me,  or  that  they  conferred 
upon  me  the  right  of  changing  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  Legislative  Council,  without  con- 
sulting them  in  the  matter.  I  am  aware  that 
in  1859  Confederation  was  referred  to  in  a 
paragraph  of  the  Speech  from  the  Throne, 
but  I  also  remember  that  at  that  time  I 
combated  the  idea  of  Confederation,  because 
the  carrying  out  of  the  views  expressed  in 
that  paragraph  would  have  resulted  in  giving 
all  the  iuiluonce  to  one  section  of  the  pro- 
vince at  the  expense  of  the  other  section. 
At  that  period  it  was  not  the  question  of 
Confederation  which  was  discu.ssed,  but  the 
question  of  representation  based  upon  popu- 
lation, and  the  Upper  Canada  Separate 
School  question.  I  stated  at  the  time,  as 
regarded    those  separate  schools,   that   tV.e 


191 


minority  of  Upper  Canada  must  not  be 
abandoned  to  tlie  mercy  of  the  majority,  and 
we  succeeded  in  obtaining  for  them  a  system 
of  separate  schools  which,  however,  does 
not  appear  to  satisfy  the  minority.  In 
Lower  Canada  the  Protestant  minority  has 
always  been  satisfied  with  the  school  system, 
until  quite  lately ;  and  they  have  now  begun 
to  agitate  with  the  view  of  obtaining,  as  they 
pretend,  a  more  equitable  distribution  of  the 
moneys  appropriated  for  school  purposes. 
For  ray  part,  1  know  that  they  have  no  found- 
ation for  their  claim,  and  I  remember  that 
when  I  was  Secretary  of  the  province,  I 
drew  the  attention  of  the  Superintendent  of 
Education  to  the  unequal  distribution  of  the 
money,  as  it  appeared  that  the  Protestant 
minority  of  Lower  Canada  received  a  larger 
amount  than  they  were  entitled  to.  lie 
replied  that  the  distribution  had  been  so 
made  by  his  predecessor,  and  that  he  had 
not  deemed  it  advisable  to  make  any  change. 
Thus  we  see  that  uneasiness  prevails  among 
the  minority,  both  in  Upper  Canada  and 
Lower  Canada,  and  even  among  the  majority 
in  Lower  Canada.  But  I  was  astonished  to 
hear  the  remedy  announced  by  my  honorable 
colleague  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau),  in  the 
event  of  the  Federal  Government  endeavor- 
ing to  prejudice  the  interests  of  Lower  Ca- 
nada. He  tells  us  that  as  Lower  Canada  is 
to  have  sixty-five  representatives  in  the 
Federal  Legislature  out  of  191:,  these  sixty- 
five  members  from  Lower  Canada  will 
always  be  able  to  preserve  their  rights  by 
taking  sides  with  the  Opposition  to  turn  out 
the  Grovernment.  Does  the  hon.  member 
really  suppose  that  all  the  members  from 
Lower  Canada  would  make  common  cause 
on  any  question  ?  Does  he  not  know  that 
there  will  always  be  a  minority  among  them 
of  difi"erent  origin  and  religion  who  will  pro- 
bably take  part  with  the  Grovernment  or 
with  the  majority?  In  such  a  case,  what 
would  the  Opposition  from  Lower  Canada 
avail  about  which  h~e  talks  ?  Do  we  not 
know  that  the  difficulties  which  gave  rise  to 
the  plan  of  Confederation  were  produced  by 
the  coalition  of  an  Upper  Canada  minority 
with  the  Lower  Canada  majority  ?  And 
what  happened  to  Upper  Canada  might  very 
well  happen  to  Lower  Canada.  By  rejecting 
the  principle  of  the  double  majority  adopted 
by  a  liberal  ministry,  the  apple  of  discord 
was  thrown  among  the  legislative  body  which 
originated  the  present  difficuties.  Another 
great  error  committed  by  the  members  from 


Lower  Canada  was  the  overturning  of  a 
government  which  had  maintained  the  prin- 
ciple of  an  equality  in  representation.  We 
now  see  to  what  that  has  brought  us.  The 
hon.  member  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau) 
had  said  that  our  institutions  would  be  pro- 
tected under  the  Federal  Government.  But 
how  ?  By  the  resolutions  as  they  stand 
they  would  not  be  so  guarded  ;  and  would 
not  the  General  Government  put  its  veto  on 
every  act  of  the  local  governments?  And 
while  on  this  subject,  I  should  like  to  know 
what  is  to  be  the  organization  of  the  Local 
Government  of  Lower  Canada.  Aa  far  as  I 
can  see,  it  is  this — that  nearly  all  our  local 
revenue  is  to  be  taken  from  us,  and  we  are 
to  be  allowed  a  subsidy  of  eighty  cents  per 
head.  And  yet  this  is  not  all.  There  will 
be  a  debt  of  S5,000,000  to  be  shared  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  ;  and  how  is  this 
sharing  to  be  brought  about  ?  If,  as  we  are 
told.  Lower  Canada  is  to  be  charged  with 
the  payment  of  the  debt  contracted  for  the 
redemption  of  the  Seigniorial  Tenure,  that 
alone  will  represent  a  capital  of  about 
$4,118,202,  including  $891,500  indemnity 
to  the  townships.  Is  Lower  Canada  to 
undertake  the  payment  of  that  sum  ?  Cer- 
tain sources  of  revenue  in  Lower  Canada  arc 
devoted  to  the  redemption  of  the  Seigniorial 
Tenure,  but  if  the  Federal  Government 
absorbs  these  sources  of  revenue,  who  will 
assure  us  that  tLe  Local  Government  will  not 
repudiate  ths  Seigniorial  debt  now  by  the 
Federal  scheme  sought  to  be  imposed  on  it  ? 
The  Local  Legislature  will  say,  perhaps,  that 
the  Imperial  Government  has  not  the  right 
of  annulling  the  act  which  imposes  on 
United  Canada  the  payment  of  the  indemnity 
to  the  seigniors,  and  will  probably  refuse  to 
assume  the  whole  responsibiHty  of  it,  alleging 
that  the  General  Government  ought  to  pay 
it.  And  if  the  Local  Government  takes  this 
course,  what  will  the  General  Government 
do  ?  On  this  question  it  will  be  easy  to 
excite  the  passions  of  the  people,  prejudiced 
as  they  already  are  against  the  seigniors. 
Chiefly,  and  above  all,  we  are  bound  to  res- 
pect vested  rights.  We  are  recommended 
to  vote  with  blind  confidence,  but  we  are 
refused  the  details,  which  might  satisfy  the 
country  and  the  honorable  members  of  this 
House.  Why  not  lay  the  constitution  of 
the  Local  Government  before  the  House  ? 
We  are  told  that  the  possession  of  her  civil 
code  is  to  be  guaranteed  to  Lower  Canada, 
but  we  are  not  informed  how  it  is  to  be  done. 


192 


Then  the  Federal  Government  will  have  ! 
the  right  of  settling  questions  of  divorce  ! 
and  marriage.  With  respect  to  divorce  I  ■ 
shall  make  no  remarks,  because  I  think  it  I 
best  that  the  decision  of  such  questions  ' 
should  be  left  to  the  General  Government, 
an  exception  being  made  in  favor  of  co- 
religionists. What  shall  I  say  on  the  sub- 
ject of  marriage — the  basis  of  all  our 
institutions  ?  Is  it  not  dangerous  to  have  it 
at  the  mercy  of  the  Federal  Government? 
We  shall  soon  be  told  probably  that  it  is  but 
a  sounding  affair,  and  before  long,  mayors 
will  take  the  place  of  the  cures,  and  will 
celebrate  the  marriages  of  their  constituents. 
Our  laws  which  regulate  our  marriages  at 
present  are  very  important  to  us,  and  are 
based  on  the  Roman  law.  These  are  the 
only  laws  suitable  to  Canadians,  and  the  wise 
provisions  characterizing  them  were  the  fruit 
of  the  experience  of  several  ages.  We 
should  not  incur  the  risk  of  any  change  in 
them  by  a  legislature,  the  majority  of  whose 
members  do  not  hold  our  opinions  on  this 
subject.  The  hon.  member  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F. 
Belleau)  might  have  favored  us  with  his 
opinion  on  this  head,  but  he  did  not,  and  I 
regret  that  he  did  not.  There  is  another 
question  deeply  interesting  to  Lower  Canada, 
but  it  seems  that  on  that  neither  must  we 
permit  ourselves  to  speak.  That  question 
relates  to  the  interest  of  money.  Do  we 
not  know  that  the  question  of  the  rate  of 
interest  hps  something  to  do  with  our  civil 
laws  ?  Is  that  also  of  no  importance  ?  An 
Upper  Cnnada  majority  has  already  sad- 
dled us  with  a  law  abolishing  the  rate  of 
interest.  Free  trade  in  money  was  not 
suitable  to  Lower  Canada,  and  the  right  of 
legislating  on  tho  question  is  now  sought  to 
be  entrusted  to  the  Federal  Government. 
What  will  be  the  result  ?  Who  will  assure 
us  that  the  law  limiting  tho  rate  of  interest 
will  not  be  repealed  as  it  respects  all  cases, 
and  that  banks  and  corporations  will  not  be 
allowed  to  exact  such  rates  of  interest  as 
they  may  think  fit,  as  private  persons  may 
now.  This  might  become  the  fate  of  Lower 
Canada.  AVIiy  not  allow  the  local  legislatures 
to  regulate  tho  question  according  to  tho 
exigencies  and  the  ideas  of  communities 
which  they  represent,  as  the  same  i.s  now 
tixed  and  decided  in  the  United  States,  where 
tho  rate  of  interest  varies  in  the  several 
states  ?  Thus  Lower  Canada  will  bo  ])re- 
ventcd  from  regulating  a  question  which  hon 
been  decided  for  us  by  Upper  (Canada  against 


our  wishes.  I  confess  that  I  am  surprised 
at  this,  because  I  see  in  the  present  Admin- 
istration men  who  have  done  battle  at  my 
side  on  that  very  question.  The  local  legis- 
latures will  have  the  power  of  making  laws 
on  the  subjects  of  immigration  and  agricul- 
ture; but  the  Federal  Legislature  will  have 
Ihe  same  pov^er,  and  it  is  evident  that  it  will 
have  the  upper  hand  on  these  matters ;  that 
the  laws  of  Lower  Canada,  for  instance,  may 
be  overriddei!  by  means  of  the  veto  of  the 
Federal  Government.  But  there  is  some- 
thing yet  more  fraught  with  danger  for  ua. 
The  Federal  Government  will  have  the  right 
of  imposing  taxes  on  the  provinces  without 
the  concurrence  of  the  local  governments. 
Under  article  five  of  the  29th  resolution,  the 
Federal  Government  may  raise  moneys  by 
all  modes  or  systems  of  taxation,  and  I  look 
upon  this  power  as  most  excepsive.  Thus, 
in  case  it  should  happen,  as  I  said  a  moment 
ago,  that  the  Lower  Canada  Goveniment 
refused  to  undertake  the  payment  of  tho  debt 
contracted  for  the  redemption  of  the  Seig- 
niorial Tenure,  the  Federal  Government 
would  have  two  methods  of  compelling  it  to 
do  so.  First,  by  retaining  the  amount  out 
of  the  eighty  cents  per  head  indemnity  to 
be  accorded  to  the  Local  Government,  and 
secondly,  by  imposing  a  K^cal  and  direct 
tax.  The  Lieutenant  Governor  of  the  Local 
Government  will  be  appointed  by  the  Federal 
Government,  and  will  be  guided  by  it,s 
instructions.  We  are  not  told  whether  the 
Local  Government  will  be  responsible  to  the 
Local  Legislature;  whether  there  will  be  only 
one  or  two  branches  of  the  Legislature,  nor 
how  the  Legislative  Council  will  be  com- 
posed, if  there  is  to  be  one  ;  wo  are  refused 
any  information  whatsoever  on  tliese  points, 
which  are  nevertheless  of  some  importance. 
I  regret,  therefore,  that  the  amendment  pro- 
posed yesterday  by  the  hon.  member  for 
Grandville,  should  have  been  rejected,  since 
it  would  have  enabled  us  to  obtain  important 
information  before  voting  on  the  question. 
I  do  not  see  that  the  reasons  advanced  yes- 
terday by  the  Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  Bi:li,e.\u,  to 
justify  the  haste  with  which  it  is  attempted 
to  pa<s  this  measure,  are  legitimate  and 
conclusive.  Wc  are  told  that  the  present 
Ministry  ia  Fngland  is  in  favor  of  this  pro- 
ject. For  my  part  I  do  not  think  tho  measure 
will  be  adopted  without  important  amend- 
ments. Unfortunately  the  measure  will, 
perhaps,  be  amended  in  England  in  a  sense 
highly    prejudicial    to     Lower    Canada    in 


193 


particular.  We  shall  probably  see  influences 
brought  to  bear  there,  as  occurred  orsce  be- 
fore when  the  Legislative  Council  was  made 
elective.  The  Lower  Canada  members  will 
recollect  that  when  the  law  was  passed  in 
England,  under  ibfluences  which  to  this 
day  remains  unearthed,  the  clause  was  blot- 
ted out  from  our  Constitution  which  we  in 
Lower  Canada  justly  regarded  as  our  only 
safeguard  against  the  encroachments  and 
the  domination  of  Upper  Canada ;  and 
in  point  of  fact,  for  the  striking  out  or 
changing  of  that  clause,  Upper  Canada  would 
never  have  demanded  representation  by 
population,  and  the  difficulties  which  have 
resulted  from  this  question  would  not  have 
occurred,  and  we  should  have  heard  nothing 
of  the  Confederation  measure  which  is  now 
before  us.  Had  the  people  of  Upper  Canada 
been  well  convinced  that  the  Constitution 
could  not  be  changed,  they  would  have  sub- 
mitted to  sacrifices  rather  than  create  a 
useless  agitation.  It  is  said  that  we  are  to 
have  guarantees  for  our  institutions.  But 
who  will  say  that  the  guarantees  left  to  us 
may  not  vanish  when  the  measure  reaches 
England,  in  the  same  way  as  the  guarantee 
we  had  against  representation  by  popula- 
tion ?  At  all  events  I  still  maintain  that  our 
institutions  are  not  guaranteed  in  any  way 
whatsoever,  and  this  is  clearly  shown  by  Sir 
N.  F.  Belleau  himself,  as  I  have  already 
had  occasion  to  prove.  We  are  asked  to 
sacrifice  the  election  of  the  Legislative 
Council ;  but  is  the  system  proposed  a  better 
one  ?  I  do  not  think  so,  for  to  my  mind  the 
mode  in  which  it  is  proposed  to  constitute 
that  House  appears  to  be  unsound  in  every 
way.  Not  only  are  the  people  to  be  deprived 
of  an  important  right,  but  the  prerogative  of 
the  Crown  is  to  be  infringed  by  limiting  the 
number  of  members  to  be  appointed.  It  is 
painful  to  take  a  backward  step  of  this  kind, 
and  to  abandon  a  reform,  the  fruit  of  the 
persevering  struggles  of  so  many  eminent 
men  ;  and  I  believe  that  it  we  consent  to  this 
change,  the  consequences  of  the  act  will  soon 
be  seen.  In  order  to  show  that  the  defects 
of  the  system  are  very  real,  I  will  cite  the 
opinion  of  the  Hon.  the  Secretary  of  State 
for  the  Colonies,  set  forth  in  his  despatch  to 
the  Governor  General,  relative  to  the  project 
of  Confederation  and  to  the  new  Constitution 
for  the  Legislative  Council.  This  is  what 
Mr.  Card  WELL  says  : — 

The  secoad  point  which  Her  Majesty's  Govern- 
pjient  desire  should  he  reconsidered  is  the  Consti- 
26 


tutiou  of  the  Legislative  Council.  They  appre- 
ciate the  considerations  Avhich  have  influenced  the 
Conference  in  determining  the  mode  in  which  this 
body,  so  important  to  the  constitution  of  the 
Legislature,  should  be  composed.  But  it  appears 
to  them  to  require  further  consideration,  whether, 
if  the  members  be  appointed  for  life,  and  their 
number  be  fixed,  there  will  be  any  sufficient 
means  of  restoring  harmony  between  the  Legisla- 
tive Council  and  the  popular  Assembly,  if  it  shall 
ever  unfortunately  happen  that  a  decided  differ- 
ence of  opinion  shall  arise  between  them. 

After  this  formal  condemnation  of  the  prp- 
ject  of  Confederation,  and  in  view  of  our 
own  experience,  it  seems  to  me  that  we  are 
quite  justified  in  opposing  it,  and  in  antici- 
pating that  the  Legislative  Council  will  be- 
come again,  as  it  formerly  was,  an  obstacle  in 
the  way  of  all  reform  and  of  all  progress, 
unless  the  present  plan  of  Confederation  be 
amended.  (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER  said  —  Honorable 
gentlemen,  I  had  almost  resolved  to  give  a 
silent  vote  for  the  resolutions  now  before  the 
House,  but  having,  especially  since  I  have 
had  the  honour  of  a  seat  in  the  Legislative 
Council,  been  accustomed  to  take  note  of 
passing  events  in  the  history  of  Canada,  I 
think  I  may  be  allowed  to  occupy  a  short 
time  in  speaking  of  what  has  transpired  in 
this  country  in  past  years,  and  more  particu- 
larly of  what  has  transpired  within  the  last 
twelve  months.  In  past  years  there  were  two 
great  questions  which  had  agitated  both  East- 
ern and  Western  Canada.  The  one  was  the 
Seigniorial  question  in  Lower  Canada  ;  the 
other  was  the  Clergy  Reserve  question  in 
Western  Canada.  Tlaese  two  questions,  for 
many  years,  occupied  the  attention  of  the 
Legislature  and  of  the  statesmen  conducting 
successive  governments.  At  last  a  settlement 
of  these  important  questions  was  arrived  at — 
I  believe  satisfactory  to  the  majority  of  the 
people.  Since  that  time  no  great  questions 
of  public  interest  have  occupied  the  minds  of 
the  people,  or  have  been  urged  either  by  the 
Government  of  the  day  or  by  the  leaders  of 
the  Opposition.  The  consequence  has  been 
that  a  political  warfare  has  been  waged  in 
Canada  for  many  years,  of  a  nature  calculated 
almost  to  destroy  all  correct  political  and 
moral  principle,  both  in  the  Legislature  and 
out  of  it.  Has  it  not  been  the  fact  that  any 
man  who,  through  life,  had  sustained  a  good 
character,  either  as  a  private  individual  or  a 
professional  man,  no  sooner  accepted  office  in  , 
the  Government  than  the  Opposition  and  the 
Opposition  papers  would  attack  him  at  once 
as  having  joined  a  very  doubtful  company  ? 


194 


Or,  when  a  man  of  plain  sense  came  and  vis- 
ited the  Legislature,  and  took  his  seat  in  the 
galleries  to  listen  to  the  debates,  did  he  not 
hear  so  fre(]uently  the  charges  of  political  crime, 
bribery  and  corruption,  that  he  left  the  House 
with  very  different  views  from  those  with 
which  he  entered  it  ?  Every  member  of  Par- 
liament has  felt  this  demoralizing  influence, 
and  it  has  met  him  at  the  polls,  and  nothing 
but  money,  in  some  cases,  could  secure  his 
election,  (Hear,  hear.)  I  come  now  to  the 
period  of  1863-64,  when  we  find  two  political 
parties  nearly  equal  in  strength,  with  a  ma- 
jority supporting  the  Government  of  only  two 
or  three.  That  Government  found  it  neces- 
sary to  appeal  to  the  country  by  a  general 
election.  After  that  election  the  Government 
of  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight  (Hon. 
Sir  E.  P.  Tachi^)  was  formed.  It  existed 
only  a  very  short  time,  and  on  the  14th  of 
June  of  last  year  came  what  has  been  called 
the  dead-lock.  Then,  honorable  gentlemen, 
there  was,  for  eight  or  ten  days,  a  breathing 
time  for  the  parties  who  had  been  engaged  in 
this  political  strife.  It  w;i8  a  breathing  time 
to  them,  as  it  were,  to  reflect  upon  the  past 
and  to  endeavor  to  look  forward  to  the  future. 
It  had  been  thought  by  many  that  the  spirit 
of  patriotism  in  the  hearts  of  our  (statesmen 
was  a  dead  principle.  In  their  strife  they 
seemed  to  have  forgotten  the  best  interests  of 
Canada.  But,  during  these  ten  days,  the  spirit 
of  patriotism  revived.  This  was  a  memorable 
period  in  the  history  of  Canada.  The  leader 
of  the  Opposition,  the  Hon.  George  Brown 
— I  speak  it  to  his  honor — was  the  lirst  to 
declare  what  he  was  ready  to  do,  and  what  he 
proposed  was  so  reasonable  that  very  soon  the 
acceptance  of  his  propositions  was  brought 
about.  I  have  pleasing  recollections  in  reier- 
ring  to  that  period,  particularly  as  having  had 
an  opportunity  of  giving  a  word  of  advice  on 
the  evening  of  the  day  these  propositions  were 
made.  I  may  refer  to  it,  as  the  name  of  the 
gentleman  I  allude  to,  Mr.  jMorri.^,  a  nicni- 
bcr  of  the  Legislative  Assembly,  was  incorpor- 
ated in  the  documents  that  were  submitted  to 
this  honorable  Hou-tse,  when  the  result  of  the 
resolutions  was  laid  before  us.  Meeting  IMr. 
Morris  one  evening,  he  inlormcd  mo  of  what 
the  Hon.  Mr.  Brown  had  proposed.  I  thought 
it  was  so  reasonable,  and  looked  so  like  ii 
deliverance  from  the  dilemina  we  were  in,  tlial 
I  recoinincndcd  him  at  once  to  commuuicaU' 
it  to  the  leading  membtTH  of  the  (lovernmcnt. 
and  I  accrmipanied  liini  to  a  member  oi'  tli( 
QovcniuientjWho  is  also  a  member  uf  this  House, 
now  present.     Ho  told  that  honorublo  gcntle- 


I  man  what  Hon.  !Mr.  Brown  had  communicat- 
I  ed  to  him,  and  he  (Mr.  MoRRls)  was  author- 
I  ized  to  make  an  arrangement  for  the  other 
I  members  of  the  Government  to  meet  Hon.  Mr. 
Brown,  We  all  very  well  remember  the  time 
I  am  speaking  of,  and  the  astonishment  of 
many  that  a  reconciliation  could  have  taken 
place  between  gentlemen  who  had  been  so 
long  opposed  to  each  other.  I  do  not  know 
that  I  ought  to  repeat  what  was  the  on- 
dit  of  the  day  with  reference  to  it.  But,  I 
think  I  can  remember  tliis  being  said,  that, 
when  Hon.  Mr.  Galt  met  Hon.  Mr.  Brown, 
he  received  him  with  that  manly,  open  frank- 
ness, which  characterizes  him;  and  that, when 
Hon.  Mr.  Cartier  met  Hon.  Mr.  Brown, 
he  looked  carefully  to  see  that  his  two  Rouge 
friends  were  not  behind  him — (laughter) — and 
that  when  he  was  satisfied  they  were  not,  he 
embraced  him  with  open  arms  and  swore 
eternal  friendship — (laughter  and  cheers) — 
and  that  Hon.  Mr.  Macdonald,  at  a  very 
quick  glance,  saw  there  was  an  opportunity. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— Saw  his  advan- 
tage. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERKIElt— That  Hon.  Mr. 
Macdonald  saw  there  was  an  opportunity  of 
forming  a  great  and  powerful  dependency  of 
the  British  Empire;  that  the  gallant  Knight, 
the  Premier  of  the  Government,  with  his 
liberal,  cautious,  and  comprehensive  mind, 
did  not  object ;  and  that  the  Commissioner 
of  Crown  Lands,  with  his  usual  courtesy,  his 
vigorous  and  acute  mind,  agreed.  (Hear, 
hear.)  To  the  best  of  my  recollection,  that 
was  the  way  in  which  it  was  said  out  of  doors 
the  propositions  of  Hon.  Mr.  Brown  were  re- 
ceived by  the  gentlemen  composing  the  Govern- 
ment of  that  day.  You  all  remember  how 
delighted  Ave  were  to  find  that  political  bitter- 
ness had  ceased.  "We  all  thouglit,  in  fact, 
that  a  political  millennium  had  arrived — and 
the  Opposition  was  nowhere.  (Laughter.) 
The  business  of  the  session  progressed  very 
rapidly,  and  we  were  soon  relieved  from  our 
responsible  duties  here.  Immediately  after 
the  close  of  the  session,  the  agreement  entered 
into  was  fully  carried  out.  Hon.  IMr.  BuowN 
and  the  other  two  honorable  gentleman  who 
entered  the  Government  with  him,  were  added 
to  it,  according  to  the  agreement.  These 
honorable  gentlemen  went  to  the  country,  and 
they  were  all  retunicd,  except  one,  and  he 
very  BOOQ  afterwards  I'ound  a  place.  The 
(iovernment  thus  formed,  had,  I  believe,  a 
ni.ijdrily  ol"  two  thirds  «  t'  the  population  of 
Canada  in  their  i'avor;  a. id,  so  far  as  my  ob- 
servation luis  gone,  two  iiirds  of  the   prc.*-8 


195 


also,  have  supported  them  in  this  scheme  of 
union.  The  Government,  thus  sustained, 
soon  began  to  act,  and  their  first  movement 
was  to  take  the  provincial  steamer  and  go  off 
to  Prince  Edward  Island.  I  remember  well 
standing  on  the  bank  of  the  river  at  Riviere 
du  Loup,  seeing  the  steamer  pass  down,  and  1 
wished  them  God-speed.  They  went  to  the 
Conference  at  Charlottetown,  and  I  have  no 
doubt  they  acted  in  a  manner  worthy  of  gen- 
tlemen going  to  propose  a  union.  We  know 
too  that  they  were  well  received.  There  had 
been  a  growing  love  in  these  provinces  towards 
Canada  for  some  time.  This  was  manifested 
when  they  gave  an  invitation  to  this  Legisla- 
ture to  visit  them,  after  the  close  of  last  ses- 
sion. And  I  only  regret  that  the  Legislature — 
every  member  of  it — did  not  accept  that  in- 
vitation. Those  who  did,  came  back  much 
better  informed  than  when  they  went  there. 
We  had  the  satisfaction  of  seeing  those  who 
probably  are  going  to  be  our  partners  in  thi.< 
union.  And  I  do  assure  you,  that  for  one,  I 
can  speak  of  the  people  of  the  Lower  Provin- 
ces, as  an  energetic,  active,  industrious  peo- 
ple, quite  equal  to  ourselves.  (Hear,  hear.) 
And,  as  regards  the  resources  of  these  pro- 
vinces, I  had  no  idea  of  them  approaching 
the  reality,  before  I  paid  that  visit  We  saw 
farms  there  on  the  banks  of  the  River  St. 
John,  quite  equal  to  any  farms  in  our  west- 
ern peninsula,  which  is  called  the  garden  of 
Canada.  The  members  of  the  Conference  at 
Charlottetown,  as  I  understood,  after  discus- 
sing the  whole  question,  and  arriving  at  some-- 
thing  like  an  understanding,  returned  to  their 
respective  governments,  and  arranged  to  have ' 
a  Conference,  representing  in  a  more  official- 
manner  all  the  provinces.  Some  gentlemen 
have  objected  that  this  was  an  unauthorized, 
self-constituted  Conference.  But  I  believe, 
it  can  be  shewn  that  they  had  the  express 
authority  of  the  British  Government  for  en- 
tering into  these  negotiations.  The  Lower 
Provinces  sent  members  of  their  several  gov- 
ernments, and  they  did  more — they  appointed 
the  leaders  of  the  Opposition  to  accompany 
them — so  that  the  people  of  those  provinces 
were  fully  represented.  They  did,  in  fact, 
what  was  equivalent  to  that  which  has  been 
done  in  Canada,  where  our  coalition  Govern- 
ment represents  both  classes  of  politics.  The 
able  statesmen,  composing  the  Conference 
which  assembled  at  Quebec,  thus  represented 
the  whole  people  of  these  provinces.  It  has 
been  objected  that  it  was  impossible  that  a 
Conference,  meeting  only  for  a  few  days,  could 
have  devised  a  measure  that  would  be  of  a 


character  which  we  could  accept.  But,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  when  men  meet  together 
honestly  to  carry  out  a  purpose,  they  can  do 
a  great  deal  in  a  very  short  time.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  I  believe  the  gentlemen  com- 
posing the  Conference  which  assembled  here 
in  this  city  were  men  of  honest  purpose,  and 
earnestly  bent  on  framing  a  Constitution  th-jt 
would  be  for  the  best  interests  of  our  country. 
We  cannot  expect  it  to  be  infallible,  because 
no  human  act  is  such ;  but  it  is  of  such  a 
character  that  I  do  not  think  we  can  ever 
have  another  opportunity,  if  this  is  let  slip, 
of  receiving  again  a  document  so  well  calcu- 
lated to  answer  the  ends  designed.  There 
could  be  no  merely  party  government  either 
here  or  in  the  Lower  Provinces  which  could 
produce  a  document  that  would  be  so  accept- 
able, or  ought  to  be  so,  to  the  whole  people. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  think  it  is  unfair  to  make 
comp  irisons  between  Upper  and  Lower  Cana- 
da and  the  Lower  Provinces.  When  we  take 
partners  for  life  we  take  them  for  richer  or 
poorer,  and  endow  them  with  all  our  worldly 
goods,  and  I  think  we  should  go  on  the  same 
principle  in  carrying  out  this  union  with  the 
Lower  Provinces.  I  have  been  surprised  at 
some  of  the  arguments  which  I  have  heard 
some  of  the  opponents  of  this  scheme  bring 
against  it.  I  was  assuredly  surprised  at  the 
course  taken  the  other  day  by  my  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie),  who, 
in  trying  to  make  out  a  point,  spoke  of  our 
commercial  and  agricultural  interests  here  as 
being  very  small,  and  in  speaking  of  our  ship- 
ping and  the  amount  of  tonnage  employed  in 
doing  the  business  of  Canada,  said,  "Oh  ! 
that  only  exists  on  paper." 

Hon.  Mr.  CURKIE — I  beg  my  honorable 
friend's  pardon.  In  any  remarks  I  made  I 
certainly  did  not  say  that  either  the  com- 
mercial or  agricultural  interests  of  Canada 
were  small.  (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— When  my  honor- 
able friend  makes  this  statement,  I  have 
nothing  further  to  say  about  it.  I  supposed 
I  was  correct  in  the  impression  I  gathered 
from  his  remarks,  but  I  must  have  misunder- 
stood him.  But  I  must  say  this,  that  I 
thought  he  was  exceedingly  unkind  when  he 
took  up  newspapers  and  read  from  them  a  cata- 
logue of  the  supposed  political  sins  of  his  own 
friends,  the  party  he  formerly  acted  with.  As 
these  honorable  gentlemen  are  now  devoting 
themselves  to  what  I  regard  as  being  for  the  best 
interests  of  the  country  by  carrying  out  this 
scheme  of  union,  I  think  really  my  honorable 
friend  would  do  better  to  support  them. 


190 


Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— That  is  a  matter  of 
opinion. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER — I  am  giving  my 
opinion  —  nothing  more.  Biit  my  honorable 
friend  proceeded  to  refer  to  the  Grand  Trunk 
Railway — (hear,  hear) — that  monster  corpor- 
ation which,  one  would  have  inferred  from 
my  honorable  friend's  remarks,  had  really 
laid  desolate  every  district  of  Canada  through 
which  it  had  passod.  For  my  own  part  I 
cannot  understand  what  dnmasre  the  Grand 
Trunk  Railway  has  done  to  Canada.  We 
have  had  thirteen  millions  sterling  of  English 
capital — (hear,  hear.) — expended  in  building 
the  Grand  Trunk  Jlailway  and  the  A^ictoria 
Bridge,  which  is  the  greatest  work  in  the 
world.  Canada  has  paid  somewhere  about 
three  millions  to  complete  the  Grand  Trunk 
— about  one-fifth  part  of  the  sixteen  millions 
that  have  been  spent,  and  it  is  the  cheapest 
bargain  she  ever  made.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
have  the  benefit  of  tlic  whole  of  this  expen- 
diture. If  there  has  been  extravagance  in  it, 
those  English  stockholders  have  been  the 
sufferers.  We  can  only  have  suffered  a  fifth 
part  of  what  they  have  done,  and  we  have 
the  benefit  of  the  whole  of  it.  That  I  think 
is  the  view  we  ought  to  take  of  the  Graud 
Trunk  Railway  in  connection  with  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Then  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way has  been  referred  to.  That  road  has 
become,  I  think,  even  at  present  a  necessity. 
It  should  have  been  made  some  years  ago, 
and  it  would  have  been  made  but  for  the 
political  incapacity  of  the  Governjuent  of  that 
Jay,  which  prevented  it.  (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon  Mr.  CURRIE — Let  me  remind  my 
honorable  friend  that  two  members  of  that 
Government — Hon.  Messrs.  McDougall  and 
Howland — are  in  the  present  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— It  is  fortunate 
that  some  men  see  the  error  of  their  ways, 
and  du  better,  and  I  trust  it  has  been  so  in 
the  present  case.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
If  we  had  had  this  road  to  the  sea-board  at 
the  present  time,  it  is  very  likely  the  Recipro- 
city Treaty  would  not  have  been  repealed. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  want  the  road  at  the  pre- 
sent moment  for  the  business  of  the  country. 
Some  honorable  gentlemen  say  that,  if  the 
road  were  made  to-day,  we  would  have  nothing 
to  Bcnd  over  it.  The  fact  is,  these  honorable 
gentlemen,  when  they  make  such  a  statement, 
show  that  they  have  not  taken  tiie  trouble  to 
enquire  what  the  position  of  the  trade  of  the 
country  is.  l''or  the  last  ten  days  we  have 
liad  about  100 cars  standing  loaded  at  Point  St. 
Charles,  and  no  way  of  getting  thent  off.    These 


cars  are  full  of  produce  for  Boston  and  New 
York,  and  the  two  roads  leading  to  these 
cities  have  so  much  to  do,  that  they  are  un- 
able to  do  the  business  of  their  own  country 
and  of  ours  too.  And.  while  these  cars  are 
thus  detained,  they  are  wanted  for  Western 
Canada,  where  the  people  are  evermore  cry- 
ing for  cars,  and  we  cannot  get  rid  of  the 
produce  we  have. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— Will  my  honorable 
friend  state  what  kind  of  produce  these  cars 
are  loaded  with,  and  wliero  it  came  from? 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— The  whole,  I  be- 
lieve, is  the  produce  of  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.) 
One  portion  of  it  is  for  the  supply  of  New 
York  and  Boston,  or  for  shipment  there;  and 
another  portion  is  to  b  3  distributed  along  the 
routes  by  which  these  railways  run.  I  was 
so  particular  as  to  make  these  enquiries  of 
Mr.  Brydges  the  day  before  yesterday. 

Hon.Mr.  SIMPSON— I  saw  Mr.  Brydges 
too. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— We  have  also  a 
large  accumulation  of  cars  standing  full  of  pro- 
duce at  Portland,  and  no  ships  to  take  it  away. 
Such  is  the  present  state  of  the  Grand  Trunk 
Railway,  and  it  is  a  very  awkward  position  to 
be  placed  in.  As  the  gallant  Knight  (Hon.  Sir 
E.  P.  Tach6)  told  us  the  other  day,  it  is  just  as 
if  a  neighbor's  farm  stood  between  us  and  the 
highway.  That  is  the  position  of  the  United 
States,  they  stand  between  Canada  and  the 
sea  board,  and  they  have  now  been  pleased  to 
say,  "  we  will  not  allow  you  to  pass  through 
our  farm  " — because,  although  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty  is  not  yet  repealed,  they  have  put  a 
check  on  intercourse  by  this  passport  system, 
and  by  the  way  in  which  they  work  the 
present  law  with  rol'erence  to  the  produce  wo 
arc  taking  along.  For  instance,  if  pork  is  sent 
on,  an  affidavit  must  be  put  in  that  that  pork 
is  the  produce  of  Canada.  Now,  it  is  a  diffi- 
cult thin''  to  make  such  an  affidavit.  At  this 
sea.son  of  the  year  loads  of  pork  como  from  all 
quarters,  and  after  it  is  all  packed  into  a 
barrel,  it  is  almost  impossible  for  any  man  to 
make  an  affidavit  where  it  was  raised.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  the  same  with  flour.  A  niilk'r 
frequently  mi.xes  ilour  brought  in  from  the 
United  States,  ami  how  is  an  affidavit  to  bo 
made  whether  that  flour  is  mixed  or  not '( 
'J'herc  may  be  four-fifths  of  it  the  produce  of 
Canada,  and  yet  the  other  fil'th  prevents  it 
from  going.  Hence,  the  trade  is  so  hampered 
by  all  the.sc  obstructions  put  in  the  way  by  the 
United  States  CJovernment,  that  it  is  very 
.seriously  interfered  with.  And,  that. being 
tlie  position  of  our  trade.  I  beg  to  ask  whether 


197 


the  Intercolonial  Eaiboad  is  not  now  wanted  ? 
I  have  some  memoranda  here  taken  from  some 
statements  I  have  had  an  opportunity  of  looking 
at,  and  I  find  that  the  Lower  Provinces  re- 
quire 600,000  barrels  of  flour  and  grain  an- 
nually beyond  what  they  raise  themselves. 
Now  that  they  take  flour  from  Boston  and 
from  Portland,  a  considerable  quantity  of  it 
is  carried  down  by  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway 
to  Portland.  It  is  then  taken  round  to  St. 
John,  and  is  taken  up  the  St.  John  river, 
and  distributed  all  the  way  along,  until  within 
sixty  miles  of  our  own  Canadian  frontier  at 
Rivi(>re  du  Loup.  Now,  I  would  ask  any 
sensible  man  whether  it  would  not  be  as  easy 
lor  the  Intercolonial  Ptailway  to  take  this  pro- 
duce and  distribut-e  it  along  the  line,  just  as 
the  Grand  Trunk  is  now  doing  in  the  State 
of  Maine  ?  St.  John  is  just  GOO  miles  from 
Montreal — the  same  distance  that  Portland  is 
from  Sarnia.  Well,  to  move  this  quantity  of 
flour  that  I  have  mentioned,  600,000  barrels, 
would  occupy  one  train  every  working  day 
through  the  year.  I  think  that  is  a  sufficient 
answer  to  any  honorable  gentleman  who  says 
there  is  nothing  to  do  for  this  Intercolonial 
Railway.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  1862,  New 
Brunswick  sold  goods  to  the  United  States  to 
the  value  of  $880,000,  and  purchased  §2,916,- 
000— thus  paying  to  the  United  States  $2, 
000,000  in  hard  cash.  Nova  Scotia  exported 
$1,879,000  to  the  United  States,  and  pur- 
chased from  the  United  States  §3,860,000 — 
thus  paying  them  another  82,000,000.  These 
two  provinces,  therefore,  paid  to  the  United 
States  in  one  year,  the  sum  of  four  millions 
of  dollars.  There  is  a  trade  now  between  the 
United  States  and  those  provinces  of  ten 
millions  of  dollars  a  year.  The  proposed 
abrogation  of  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  discards 
that  trade,  and  should  we  not  here  in  Canada 
lay  hold  of  it  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Is  not  every 
mercantile  man  wide  awake  and  ready  to  lay 
hold  of  it  at  once,  if  there  was  a  possibility  of 
doing  so?  but  there  is  no  such  possibility, 
excepting  by  the  Intercolonial  Railroad. 
Another  thing  I  wish  to  point  out  is,  that  half 
the  importations  of  tea  into  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia  aie  supplied  from  the  United 
States.  Now,  that  is  precisely  an  article 
which  we  could  send  along  the  railway  at  a 
very  low  figure — and  every  honorable  gentle- 
man is  well  aware  that  Montreal  and  Quebec 
compete  with  New  York  and  Boston  in  the 
tea  trade.  Upper  Canada  merchants  know 
that  they  would  never  go  to  Montreal  to  pur- 
chase the  large  cargoes  of  tea  sold  theie  if 
they  could  do  better  in  New  York,     And  I 


maintain,  therefore,  that  Quebec  and  Mon- 
treal are  in  a  position,  as  soon  as  they  have 
the  opportunity,  to  do  the  business  of  those 
provinces,  better,  in  fact,  than  the  United 
States  can  do.  (Hear,  hear.)  Under  the 
Reciprocity  Treaty  and  the  bonding  system, 
in  about  the  period  of  fifteen  years,  the  trade 
between  ourselves  and  the  United  States  has 
increased  from  89,000,000  to  §37,000,000— 
being  four  hundred  per  cent.  In  1862,  the 
Canadian  imports  passing  through  the  United 
States  in  bond  amounted  to  §6,000,000.  And, 
unless  we  are  careful  in  looking  into  the  pro- 
gress of  trade  here  as  well  as  in  the  United 
States,  we  may  lose  what  is  absolutely  neces- 
sary for  the  prosperity  of  our  country.  It 
requires  men  to  be  wide-awake  in  these  days 
of  rapid  progress  to  keep  pace  with  the  march 
of  events.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I  am  prepared 
to  shew,  as  I  have  already  to  some  extent 
endeavored  to  shew,  and  my  own  mind  is 
made  up  on  it,  that,  before  the  Intercolonial 
Railroad  can  be  made,  we  will  have  enough 
business  for  it  to  pay  expenses — (hear,  hear) 
— so  that  no  loss  can  accrue  to  the  provinces 
when  the  road  is  made — that  is,  three  years 
hence,  if  it  were  set  about  now.  But,  I  swp- 
pose,  if  this  union  is  brought  about,  some  time 
will  be  taken,  after  the  Confederation  is 
formed,  to  decide  upon  the  mode  of  proceeding 
with  the  construction,  and,  if  it  is  gone  on 
with  even  in  the  most  rapid  manner,  it  would 
take  at  least  four  years  before  it  was  in  full 
working  order.  I  think  it  is  much  to  be 
regretted  that  we  have  been  so  long  in  com- 
mencing it.  In  view  of  the  present  state  of 
our  relations  with  the  United  States,  it  ought 
to  have  been  in  existence  now,  and  I  say  that 
in  another  year  it  would  have  paid  expenses. 
(Hear,  hear.j  Honorable  gentlemen  object 
to  the  scheme  of  union  because  it  was  not 
published  suflaciently  to  make  the  people  of  these 
provinces  acquainted  with  it.  I  do  not  under- 
stand that  objection.  Every  clause  of  the  doc- 
ument now  under  consideration  was  published 
in  Quebec,  before  the  delegates  left  the  city 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— And  in  the  pa- 
pers in  Upper  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— But  it  was  denied 
that  it  was  a  correct  copy  of  the  resolutions  of 
the  Conference.        "^ 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  was  merely 
denied  that  it  was  the  official  document. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— The  copy  of  the 
document  I  got  was  marked  "  Private,'"  and  I 
could  not,  therefore,  make  use  of  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— I  dare  say  honor- 
able members,  in  receiving  the  document,  un- 


198 


derstood  very  well  what  the  word  "  Private  " 
meant.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  was  invited  to  at- 
tend a  very  large  meeting,  comprising  nearly 
all  the  leading  merchants  in  5lontreal,  just 
after  the  delegates  left  for  home.  We  spent 
a  whole  night  over  it ;  I  believe  it  was  early 
in  the  morning  before  we  parted.     A  third 

!)art  of  those  present,  I  think,  came  apparent- 
y  determined  to  oppose  tho  scheme.  Fortu- 
nately we  had  a  gentleman  there  who  had 
made  himself  thoroughly  acquainted  with  it, 
and  who  was  able  to  go  into  explanations  and 
deal  with  all  tho  whys  and  wherefores  that 
were  urged  by  tho  various  objectors.  The 
result  was,  that  when  we  closed  the  meeting 
there  was  only  one  man  who  declared  himself 
positively  opposed  to  the  scheme  —  (hear, 
hear,) — and  this  man  said  he  opposed  it,  be- 
cause, in  his  opinion,  it  would  give  the 
French  Canadians  power  to  crush  us  British 
out  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  I  maintain, 
honorable  gentlemen,  that  the  public  opinion 
of  Canada  js  not  opposed  to  the  scheme  of 
Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  it  had  been 
so,  we  should  have  petitions  against  it  poured 
in  upon  us  from  every  quarter.  I  do  not 
think  the  scheme  is  perfect,  but  we  should  try 
with  an  honest  purpose  to  work  it  out,  and 
if  it  is  found  defective,  it  is  not,  of  course, 
like  the  laws  of  the  Medes  and  Persians — it 
can  be  altered.  Wc  have  had  the  Constitu- 
tion of  1841  altered  more  than  once — twice 
at  least — since  the  union.  If  we  find  that 
some  parts  of  the  machinery  do  not  work — if, 
after  the  establishment  of  the  Confederation, 
we  find  some  little  error  has  been  made — we 
will  then,  no  doubt,  have  power  and  authority 
also  to  alter  it.  I  trust  this  scheme  of  Feder- 
ation will  be  curried  by  a  large  majority  in 
this  House,  as  well  as  in  the  Legislative  As- 
sembly, and  that  the  legislatures  of  the 
Lower  Provinces  will  also  adopt  it.  If  so, 
lionorablc  gentlemen,  we  shall  cuter  on  a  new 
era  in  liie  history  of  British  North  America. 
(Hear,  hear.)  1  believe  that  a  Divine  Provi- 
dence guides  the  destinies  of  nations,  and 
I  believe  a  Divine  Providence  has  directed 
the  statesmen  who  were  present 
Conference  in  their  deliberations, 
brought  conilicting  interests  into 
ill  a  most  wonderful  way.  (Hear,  hear.) 
What  was  our  political  condition  on  tho 
fourteeuth  of  Juno  last  —  only  about  eight 
months  ago  ?  What  was  our  pjlitical  con- 
dition then,  and  what  brought  tho  leaders 
of  the  political  purtioi  w!io  were  then  fierce- 
ly contending   with   each    otlier,    almost   aa 


at  tiiat 
and  luus 
harmony 


in  a  death  struggle,  for  power,  into  rela- 
tions of  intimate  friendship  ?  What  led 
the  Governments  of  New  Brunswick,  Nova 
Scotia,  Newtbundland,  and  Prince  Edward 
Island  to  send  their  leading  statesmen,  repre- 
sentatives of  both  their  jwlitical  parties,  to 
meet  our  Coalition  Government  ?  I  say  it 
was  an  over-ruling  Providence.  A  party  gov- 
ernment could  never  have  arrived  at  such  a 
scheme  of  union  as  this.  If  we  reject  this 
proposed  Confederation,  we  refuse  to  lay  the 
foundations  of  a  great  nation,  as  a  depen- 
dency of  the  British  Empire.  When  I  came 
of  age  I  consiaered  what  country  I  should 
adopt.  I  adopted  Canada.  I  have  now  lived 
in  it  for  forty-four  years.  I  have  been  iden- 
tified with  the  progress  of  its  institutions — 
of  those  at  any  rate  of  Lower  Canada,  and 
particularly  of  Montreal.  I  have  had  the 
pleasure  of  taking  part  with  others  in  organ- 
izing some  of  them.  I  have  seen  some  of 
them  prosper,  and  others  that  will  probably 


fail. 


as   we 


in   a  new 


may   expect    will 
country.      I   have. 


years    also,   travelled   over    a 


be  the  case 
during  these 
large  part  of 
Europe.  I  have  travelled  too  over  parts  of 
Asia  and  Africa.  I  have  seen  people  under 
monarchical  governments — some  of  them  toler- 
ably prosperous,  others  of  them  less  so.  I 
have  seen  people  under  despotic  governments 
— some  of  them  pretty  comfortable,  and  others 
crushed  down  to  the  lowest  depths  of  slavery. 
I  have  seen  republican  governments  in  Eu- 
rope, and  of  course  I  have  seen  the  great 
llepublic  here  on  this  continent.  I  have  seen 
people,  too,  living  under  the  government  of 
the  Church.  But  I  have  seen  no  people  like 
those  living  under  the  government  of  Great 
Britain,  or  enjoying  such  perfect  freedom,  and 
such  complete  protection  lor  life  and  property, 
as  those  living  under  the  flag  of  Old  England. 
(Hear,  hear.)  And  had  I  my  choice  to  make 
to-day,  after  an  experience  of  forty-four  years,  I 
should  still  choose  Canada  aa  my  home.  I  feel 
that  at  my  age  I  have  not  long  to  live  ;  but, 
during  the  time  that  I  shall  be  spared  on 
earth,  I  would  bo  willing  to  devote  all  inj 
energies  to  the  carrying  out  of  this  scheme — 
and  i  do  pray  it  may  succeed — because  it  is 
laying  anew  the  foundations  of  one  of  the 
most  important  dependencies  of  the  British 
Einpiro.  1  trust  1  sliall  not  live  to  see  it  iu 
any  other  condition  than  as  u  dcjKMidency  of 
the  British  Empire.  Honorable  gentlemen, 
1  shall  have  pleasure  in  voting  for  the  ro.-<olu- 
tions  of  tho  honorable  and  gallant  Kniu:ht. 
(Clieers.) 


199 


Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR  said :— Honorable 
gentlemen,  I  desire  to  make  one  or  two  re- 
marks in  reply  to  something  which  fell  from 
my  honorable  friend  the  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands,  in  reference  to  the  objections 
I  took  on  a  former  occasion  to  the  details  of 
this  scheme.  That  honorable  gentleman, 
after  explaining  one  or  two  minor  points,  dis- 
posed of  the  others  by  saying  that  I  opposed 
everything.  As  that  statement  might  imply, 
if  honorable  members  of  this  House  were  not 
acquainted  with  me,  that  my  course  had  been 
factious,  I  desire  to  state  what  I  have  op- 
posed. Haviflg  been  always  a  strong  advo- 
cate of  retrenchment  and  financial  reform,  I 
have  opposed  the  exorbitant  expenses  of  the 
Government.  I  have  opposed  the  extrava- 
gance which  has  made  the  expenses  of  the 
civil  government  of  Canada  exceed  those  of 
any  other  country  on  the  face  of  the  globe, 
in  proportion  to  the  revenue.  I  have  always 
opposed  the  expenditure  of  money  without 
the  authority  of  Parliament.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  have  always  opposed  the  extravagant  grants 
and  subsidies  to  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway 
Company.  (Hear,  hear.)  My  honorable 
friend  opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Ferrier)  has 
spoken  of  the  benefit  of  the  Grand  Trunk 
Railway,  and  of  the  great  expenditure  of 
English  capitalists  in  the  work.  It  is  true 
the  work  was  undertaken  by  them,  but 
Canada  has  borne  her  full  share — has  fulfil- 
led every  agreement.  And  more  than  that, 
Canada  has  paid  at  the  rate  of  thirty  thousand 
dollars  per  mile  for  her  railways  :  Canada 
has  contributed  ^15, 143, 000  in  principal, 
and  85,400,000  in  interest,  without  taking 
into  consideration  a  large  number  of  smaller 
matters.  If  a  calculation  be  made  from 
these  amounts,  it  will  be  found  as  I  have 
stated,  that  Canada  has  paid  at  the  rate  of 
830,000  for  all  the  railway  which  was  re- 
quired, namely,  from  Quebec  to  Toronto, 
which  would  have  connected  with  the  Great 
Western,  and  formed  a  Trunk  line  through 
the  province  to  Saruia.  If  large  sums  have 
been  expended  ;  if  large  sums  have  been 
squandered,  have  not  English  contractors 
benefited  ?  Are  the  people  of  Canada  to  be 
blamed  ?  The  scheme  was  planned  by  Eng- 
lish capitalists,  and  Canada  fulfilled  every 
obligation.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  there  is 
another  matter  which  I  have  opposed.  I 
have  always  opposed  the  loose  system  of 
management  of  the  Crown  lands,  a  system 
by  which  our  splendid  domain  has  been  frit- 
tered away.     I  do  not  mean  my  remarks  on 


this  subject  to  apply  to  my  honorable  friend, 
the  present  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands. 
He  has  only  been  in  office  a  few  months,  and 
I  have  not  read  his  report.  But  I  refer  to 
the  past,  and  I  say  that  the  whole  of  that 
domain  has  been  squandered  away  in  useless 
expenses.  There  is  another  matter  which  I 
have  opposed — the  Militia  Bill  of  1862.  I 
admit  that  I  opposed  that  measure.  That 
was  a  measure  which  was  going  to  entail 
upon  the  country  an  enormous  expenditure, 
which  would  have  exhausted  our  resources 
at  a  time  when  that  expenditure  was  not 
required.  Why,  honorable  gentlemen,  was 
not  the  Trent  difficulty  settled  at  the  time  ? 
Had  not  the  American  Government  complied 
with  the  demands  of  Great  Britain,  and  what 
threatened  us  to  authorize  that  expenditure? 
There  is  one  expenditure  which  I  opposed, 
which  might  perhaps  be  questioned.  I  op- 
posed the  Supply  Bill  in  1858,  and  I  had 
then  voting  with  me  my  honorable  friend 
the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands.  (Hear, 
and  laughter.)  Whether  that  vote  can  be 
defended  from  a  constitutional  point  of  view,  I 
cannot  say  ;  but  every  vote  I  have  given  in 
this  House,  or  the  other  branch  oi  the  Legis- 
lature, has  been  given  in  accordance  with 
what  I  conceived  to  be  the  interests  of  my 
native  country.  (Hear.)  My  honorable 
friend  the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands, 
alluded  the  other  day  to  the  conservative 
feature  of  the  Senate  in  the  United  States, 
in  allowing  the  same  representation  to  small 
states  as  to  the  larger  states.  But  this  docB 
not  at  all  afiect  the  general  arrangement, 
because  the  large  majority  are  large  states. 
liut  while  my  honorable  friend  approves  of 
this  portion,  he  should  have  expressed  an 
opinion  on  the  whole  system.  In  the  United 
States,  no  change  of  Constitution  can  be  ef- 
fected without  the  consent  of  two-thirds  of 
both  branches  of  the  Legislature,  and  that 
must  afterwards  be  sanctioned  by  three- 
fourths  of  the  state  governments.  This  is 
a  conservative  feature  also.  Then,  what  are 
the  constitutions  of  the  state  governments  ? 
I  have  here  a  clause  taken  from  the  Consti- 
tution of  one  of  the  states  (Connecticut), 
which  provides  that : — 

Whenever  a  majority  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives shall  deem  it  uecessary  to  alter  or 
amend  this  Constitution,  they  [may  propose  such 
alterations  and  amendments,  which  proposed 
amendments  shall  be  continued  to  the  next  Gen- 
eral Assembly,  and  be  published  with  the  laws 
which  may  have  been  passed  at  the  same  session, 
and  if  two-thirds  of  each  house,  at  the  next^ses- 


200 


sioa  of  said  Assembly,  shall  approve  the  amend- 
ments proposed,  by  ytas  and  nays,  said  amend- 
ments shall,  by  the  Secretary,  be  transmitted  to 
the  town  clerk  in  each  town  in  this  State,  whose 
duty  it  shall  be  to  present  the  same  to  the  inhab- 
itants thereof,  for  their  consideration,  at  a  town 
meeting  legally  warned  and  held  for  that  purpose ; 
and  if  it  shall  appear  in  a  manner  pirovided  by 
law,  that  a  majority  of  the  electors  present  at 
such  meetings  shall  have  approved  such  amend- 
ments, tue  same  shall  be  valid,  to  all  intents  and 
purposes,  as  a  part  of  this  Constitution. 

That  is  the  way  one  of  the  oldest  states 
guards  the  rights  and  liberties  of  its  people. 
Then  here  is  another  extract  from  the  Con- 
stitution of  the  State  of  Mississippi,  one  of 
the  new  states,  showing  how  the  people  there 
are  protected  against  hasty  innovation  : — 

Whenever  two-thirds  of  the  General  Assembly 
shall  deem  it  necessary  to  amend  or  change  this 
Constitution,  they  shall  recommend  to  the  elec- 
tors, at  the  next  election  for  members  of  the  Gen- 
eral Assembly,  to  vote  for  or  against  a  conven- 
tion ;  and  if  it  shall  appear  that  a  majority  of  the 
citizens  of  the  state,  voting  for  representatives, 
have  voted  for  a  convention,  the  General  Assem- 
bly shall,  at  their  next  session,  call  a  convention, 
to  consist  of  as  many  members  as  there  maybe 
in  the  General  Assembly,  to  be  chosen  by  the 
qualified  electors  in  the  manner,  and  at  the  times 
and  places  of  choosing  members  of  the  General 
Assembly ;  which  convention  shall  meet  within 
three  months  after  the  said  election,  for  the  pur- 
pose of  revising,  amending,  or  changing  the 
Constitution. 

Now,  in  addition  to  this,  what  have  wc 
seen  ?  Have  we  not  seen  changes  in  the 
Constitution  latterly  in  respect  to  slavery,  and 
have  they  acted  upon  this  till  they  have 
been  ratified  by  the  state  governments  ? 
Now,  compare  this  mode  of  procedure  with 
that  adopted  in  regard  to  the  scheme — and 
very  properly  called  a  scheme — of  Confedera- 
tion submitted  to  this  Jlouse.  How  were 
these  delegates  called  into  existence  ?  Arc 
they  not  self-appointed  ?  (Hear.)  Did  not 
the  members  of  the  Executive  Council  of 
Canada  constitute  themselves  delcgatf;s  ? 
(Cries  of  "  no,  no,"  and  "yes.")  And  the 
members  of  the  Executive  Councils  of  the 
Lower  Provinces,  did  they  not  also  constitute 
themselves  delegates  ?  Tiicy  prepared  a 
scheme  which  they  have  laid  belorc  Parlia- 
ment, and  what  is  that  scheme  r"  It  was 
embodied  in  resolutions  sent  to  members  of 
the  Legislature  before  the  meeting  of  the 
House,  marked  "  Private,"  both  on  the  out- 
side and  inside.  Did  any  honorabli;  UKiubcr 
feel  himself  at  liberty  to  go  before  liis  con- 
stituents and  explain  it   to  (hem  ?     Did  any 


honorable  member  feel  himself  at  liberty  to 
call  his  constituents  together,  and  say,  here 
is  a  scheme  on  which  I  will  have  to  vote  at 
the  next  session  of  the  Legislature  ?  No,  he 
could  not  do  it.  Some  of  the  newspapers  did 
publish  what  purported  to  be  the  resolutions, 
but  were  they  copied  all  over  the  country  so 
that  the  people  mi;:ht  sec  and  judge  of  them  ? 
No,  they  were  not,  and  what  was  the  reason  ? 
Did  not  the  Provincial  Secretary  write  his 
mandate  to  the  press,  that  any  newspaper 
that  did  not  support  Confederation,  was  not 
to  receive  the  Government  patronage  ?  Not 
being  an  elective  member,  I  did  not  feel 
myself  at  liberty  to  address  the  people  on 
these  resolutions.  Did  any  member  take 
them  to  his  constituents  and  explain  every 
detail  of  them  ? 

HoN.Mii.  MACPHERSON— Don't  let  the 
honorable  member  endeavor  to  create  a  false 
impression.  I,  for  one,  held  two  meetings 
a  day  for  some  time,  and  fully  explained  the 
scheme  to  my  constituents. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYM OUFv— Did  my  hon- 
orable friend  tell  them  how  much  this 
Intercolonial  Railway  was  lo  cost,  or  how 
much  Upper  Canada  was  to  pay  for  it  ?  That 
it  was  to  be  established  by  the  Government, 
and  kept  up  as  a  public  work  ?  I  should  be 
glad  to  hear  my  honorable  friend  on  these 
points  before  a  popular  as-semblage.  (Hear, 
hear).  We  have  been  told  by  my  honorable 
friend  the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands, 
that  concessions  had  to  be  made,  but  how 
were  these  concessions  made  ?  Unfortunate- 
ly they  were  all  made  one  way  ;  they  were 
made  to  the  Lower  Provinces.  No  conces- 
sions to  Canada,  east  or  west,  but  all  in 
favor  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  And  could 
you  expect  anything  else  would  bo  the  result 
of  the  Convention,  when  the  i^mall  province 
of  Prince  Edward  Island,  and  the  small  pro- 
vince of  Newfoundland,  sent  representatives 
in  the  same  manner  and  the  same  number 
as  the  whole  province  of  Canada?  Could  it 
have  been  expected  that  the  delegates  Irom 
Canada  would  supply  all  the  talent  ?  How- 
ever much  1  esteem  the  talents  of  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Executive  Council,  I  believe 
there  arc  those  in  the  Lower  Provinces  who 
possess  the  talent  necessary  to  arrange  a 
schcmo  of  this  kind.  When  Canada,  with 
it3  3,000,000  of  population  and  §1 1,000,000 
of  revenue,  was  represented  there  by  twelve, 
and  the  Maritime  Provinces,  with  only 
.SOO,000  of  population  and  a  revenue  under 
♦3,000,000,  was  represented  by  nearly  two  to 
one,  could   it  bo  expected  that  a  favorable 


201 


arrangement  could  be  made.  (Hear.)  My 
honorable  friend  says  that  they  voted  by 
provinces,  but  it  was  all  the  same.  Now, 
what  was  the  first  concession  ?  The  first 
concession  was  in  granting  twenty  eight 
members  of  this  House  to  those  provinces, 
with  only  800,000  inhabitants  and  paying  a 
small  amount  of  revenue,  whereas  in  tipper 
Canada  we  have  1,500,000  of  population,  and 
contribute  $7,000,000  or  $8,000,000  to  the 
revenue,  and  yet  have  only  twenty-four 
members.  Here  is  the  first  concession  to 
make  the  Lower  Provinces  come  in  to  sup- 
port the  scheme  And  is  it  not  a  fact  that 
this  House  will  have  the  control  of  the 
legislation  to  a  certain  extent,  and  are  we 
not  entitled  to  it  ?  Then  there  is  another 
point  in  connection  with  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, which  I  will  here  notice.  The 
franchise  is  lower  there — it  is  almost  univer- 
sal. Persons  entered  upon  the  assessment 
roll  for  a  small  amount  of  personal  property 
may  vote  for  members  of  the  Confederate 
Parliament.  Here  members  are  elected  by 
persons  assessed  for  real  property  to  a  certain 
amount.  This  is  another  matter  which 
should  have  been  attended  to.  It  is  not 
right  that  members  should  be  sent  to  the 
General  Parliament  on  these  terms.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  whole  scheme  is,  in  fact,  a 
history  of  concessions,  and  all  on  one  side. 
The  arrangement  of  the  public  debt  at  a 
rate  per  head,  instead  of  according  to  re- 
venue, is  another  mistake.  My  friend,  the 
honorable  member  for  Saugeen  Division, 
(Hon.  Mr.  Macpherson),  stated  the  other 
day  that  my  arguments  were  fallacious ; 
that  in  this  ease  the  rate  per  head  of 
population  was  the  one  which  ought  to 
be  adopted.  Is  not  the  revenue  the 
means  of  payment  of  the  debt  ?  Is  popula- 
tion to  be  considered  ?  I  will  satisfy  my 
honorable  friend  that  his  reasoning  was  not 
correct,  at  least  it  is  not  what  I  would  ex- 
pect from  a  gentlenian  occupying  the  position 
he  does  in  the  country.  Is  population  al- 
ways wealth  ?  No.  It  is  wealth  when  it 
can  be  profitably  employed ;  it  is  wealth 
when  you  can  employ  it  in  manufactures,  or 
in  the  cultivation  of  good  farming  lands ; 
but  lock  at  the  case  of  Ireland,  where  popu- 
lation has  been  a  source  of  poverty. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— What  I  said 
was,  that  past  revenue  was  not  a  fair  cri- 
terion of  what  each  province  was  to  pay. 
In  future  we  would  have  a  uniform  tariff.  I 
am  sure  that  my  honorable  friend  will  not 

27 


say  that  in  this  country  population  is  a  source 
of  povei'ty. 

Hon.  Mr,  SEYMOUR— My  honorable 
friend  says  he  adopts  one  plan  for  the  past 
and  another  for  the  future.  What  justice 
is  there  in  that  ?  We  have  only  to  look  at 
the  proposed  system  to  see  the  effect  it  has. 
If  New  Brunswick,  with  a  million  revenue, 
be  allowed  to  put  her  debt  of  seven  millions 
upon  the  Confederation,  then,  upon  the  same 
rule,  Canada  should  enter  into  the  Confedera- 
tion with  all  her  debt  and  more.  The  esti- 
mated revenue  of  Canada  is  eleven  millions. 
Any  one  could  figure  that  out  and  see  that 
Canada  should  have  had  no  debt  left  for  the 
local  governments  to  pay ;  but  on  this  prin- 
ciple of  concession,  why,  of  course,  Canada 
must  suffer.  Now,  to  shew  the  working  of 
the  system,  look  at  the  effect  of  the  rate  of 
80  cents  a  head.  Upper  Canada  will  pay 
$1,540,000  to  the  General  Government,  and 
receive  back  $1,120,000  for  the  Local  Govern- 
ment,— that  is,  supposing  Upper  Canada 
contributes  two-thirds  of  the  revenue  of  the 
united  provinces.  That  has  been  admitted 
by  one  who  now  holds  a  high  position  in  the 
Government.  This  is  the  fine  scheme  which 
my  honorable  friend  from  Saugeen  lauds. 
You  pay  according  to  wealth,  and  the  dif- 
ference against  Upper  Canada  is  $420,000, 
or  in  other  words.  Upper  Canada  pays 
$1,540,000  out  of  one  pocket  and  receives 
back  $1,120,000  in  the  other.  This  is  the 
working  of  the  system  which  has  been  car- 
ried out,  very  much  against  the  interests  of 
not  only  Upper  Canada  but  all  Canada.  The 
third  concession  is  the  amount  to  be  paid  to 
Newfoundland,  as  a  set-off  against  her  not 
being  indebted.  There  may  be,  I  admit,  a 
show  of  fairness  in  this,  but  the  sum  is  a  great 
deal  too  large.  Canada  will  go  on  increasing, 
whereas  from  Newfoundland  we  can  expect 
very  little.  The  fourth  matter  is  that  of  the  80 
cents  a  head,  to  which  I  have  just  alluded, 
and  I  have  shown  the  working  of  that,  and 
it  is  decidedly  against  it.  Then  comes 
the  $63,000  a  year  to  New  Brunswick, 
for  ten  years.  I  was  very  glad  to  hear 
my  honorable  friend  from  Saugeen  (Hon. 
Mr.  Macpherson)  disapprove  of  that.  I 
am  glad  to  find  him,  so  strong  a  supporter  of 
this  scheme,  admit  that  that  was  wrong.  I 
have  made  my  calculation  in  an  Upper 
Canada  point  of  view.  So  long  as  the  union 
was  maintained,  however,  my  voice  was  oever 
raised  by  way  of  comparison.  I  desire  to 
maintain  that  union.      (Hear,  hear.)     But 


202 


now  we  are  forced  to  take  this  scheme  as  it 
is,  without  any  amendment  in  any  particular. 
I  only  now  wish   to  point  out   that  of  the 
principal  which  this  863,000  represents,  and 
which   my  honorable  friend   from   Saugeen 
cannot  endorse.     Upper  Canada  will  have  to 
pay  $367,000.      Then   $150,000  a-year  to 
Newfoundland   is  a  sixth   concession,  made 
for  worthless  lands.     This  is  equal  to  a  capi- 
tal of  three  millions.     The  lands  of  the  other 
provinces  are  well  taken  care  of;  but  those 
in    Newfoundland,   what   are    they   worth  ? 
They  are  entirely  valueless.     "When  my  hon- 
orable  iriend  the  Commissioner    of  Crown 
Lands  has   all    these   lands  to  control,  I  am 
sure  be  will  have  his  hands  full      The  lands 
of  other  provinces  were  worth  retaining,  and 
they  were  left  under  their  own  management  j 
but  as  these  happened  to  be  good  for  nothing, 
they  were  put  upon   the   General    Govern- 
ment.    Had  they  been   good  for  anything, 
they  would  also  have  been  reserved.     There 
is  another  question.     It  is  proposed  to  take 
the  government  railways  of  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia,  and  make  them  provincial 
works.     I  suppose  we  shall  be  told  that  the 
canals  of  Canada  are  also  taken,  and   made 
public    works   of  the   Confederation.     But 
there  is  a  very  great  difference  between  these. 
The  railways  had  only  an  existence  of  a  few 
years,  they  would   be  worn  out  soon,    and 
must  be  kept  up  at  the  expense  of  the  Con- 
federate   Government.        What    advantage 
could   they  be   to  the   Confederate   Govern- 
ment?      What  are  our  expenses  now  for 
public  works?     Have  we  not  seen   the  tolls 
removed   on  our  canals,  and  will  it  not  be  a 
part  of  the  policy  of  the  Confederate   Gov- 
ernment to  remove   the  rates  paid  on  these 
railways,  and   they  will  be   kept  up,  as  all 
public  works  arc,  at  an  enormous  loss  to  the 
Government.     (^Hear,  hear.)     My  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara  the  other  day,  I  thought, 
on  one  point,  was  not  (^uite  correct  in  what 
he  said  in  respect  to  Upper  Canada.    (Laugh- 
ter, and    hear,  hear.)      From    the  census   of 
1861,  1  find  that  the  cash-value  of  lurms  in 
Upper    Canada   was    ijfliUS,  162,315,   and   in 
Lower  Canada,  8 1(58, -131^,646,  making  a  total 
of  8463,504,861.     The  live  stock  in  Upper 
Canada  was  valued  at  853,2-7,516;  in  Lower 
Canada,  824,572,121.      Wheat,  Upper  Can- 
ada, 824,64U,425  ;    Lower    Canada,  !8l_',563,- 
114.      Other   gmins,    Upper    Canada,   838,- 
123,340;  Lower  Canada,  823,534,703.  Now, 
in  timber,  mineral  wealth,  uiunufactureii  and 
fisheries,   Upper  Canada  is  quite   ei^uul    to 


Lower  Canada  and  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
I  believe  that  if  Upper  Canada  could  be  left 
alono,  if  it  was  not  to  be  burtheued  and  its 
back  broken  by  these  concessions,  the  whole 
of  Canada  would  become  still  more  prosper- 
ous, provided  we  did  not  enter  into  any 
further  useless  and  wasteful  expenditure. 
Compare  these  resources  with  those  of  the 
Lower  Provinces  I  The  gallant  Premier, 
the  other  day,  stated  something  with  respect 
to  the  wealth  of  those  provinces — with  res- 
pect to  their  mines  and  timber.  But  the 
timber  must  become  exhausted,  and  conse- 
quently that  country  cannot  grow  richer; 
whilst  in  Canada,  with  a  good  productive 
soil  and  an  industrious  population,  we  must 
go  on  increasing  in  wealth.  What  is  the 
value  of  the  mines  which  we'are  to  get  ?  In 
Nova  Scotia  the  royalty  on  coal  is  only  S28,- 
000,  and  the  revenue  derived  from  the  gold 
fields,  $20,000  ;  and  what  else  have  we  to 
obtain  from  these  provinces  ?  Why,  in 
Nova  Scotia  they  have  no  timber,  and  con- 
sequently their  revenue  cannot  increase ; 
whilst  we  in  Canada  must  inevitably  go  on 
and  grow  in  prosperity,  because  the  ele- 
ments of  our  wealth  are  in  the  soil  and 
climate.     (Hear,  hear  ) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Surely  my  hon- 
orable friend  does  not  pretend  to  say  that  the 
revenue  of  Nova  Scotia  cannot  increase  ? 
Why,  it  has  doubled  in  one  year. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— What  else  have 
they  besides  their  coal  fields  ?  It  is  not 
pretended  that  they  have  any  timber  If 
you  increase  the  tariflf,  you  will  increase  the 
revenue ;  but  it  must  not  be  expected  that 
the  revenue  can  be  doubled.  They  will 
lessen  their  consumption  if  you  increase  the 
tariff".  It  is  fallacious  reasoning  to  say  that 
when  you  double  the  tariff  you  double  the 
revenue. 

Hon.  Mr  CAMPBELL— For  the  year 
1850,  the  revenue  of  Nova  Scotia  was 
86>9,000,  and  it  increased  the  next  year  to 
81,240,000,  and  went  on  increasing,  and  yet 
my  honorable  friend  says  that  it  cannot  in- 
c reuse 

Hon.  Mk.  SEYMOUll— I  have  not  the 
statements  which  the  honorable  gent  Ionian 
has  (juotud  Jioni,  but  the  figures  1  havf  giv>n 
are  those  of  1862.  There  uro  excise  duties, 
but  1  believe  that  the  local  duties  will  be 
paid  to  the  local  governments.  The  com 
plaint  whiuh  hiusbeuu  made  by  Upper  Canada 
has  been,  that  although  they  contributed 
^wo-thirda  or  three-fourths  of  the  revenue, 


203 


they  did  not  possess  a  corresponding  contro 
of  the  legislation,  and  that  they  did  not  re- 
ceive back  in  proportion  to  the  amount  they 
paid.  Will  this  be  remedied  by  this  mea- 
sure ?  Draw  a  line  east  of  Montreal,  and  do 
you  not  find  the  control  of  the  Legislature 
there,  in  consequence  of  the  concessions 
made  to  the  Maritime  Provinces  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  balance 
will  be  restored  when  the  Red  River  Settle- 
ment comes  in. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— I  am  afraid  that 
no  one  here  will  live  to  see  that  country 
come  in.     I  have  listened  with  a  good  deal 
of  attention  to  the  speeches  of  my  honorable 
friends,  and  I  have  read  the  reports  of  the 
debates  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Lesrisla- 
ture,  and  the  only  argument  I  have  heard 
brought  forward  in  favor  of  this  scheme,  is 
that  it  will  strengthen  the  connection  with 
the  Mother  Country.     (Hear,  hear.)     Now, 
honorable  gentlemen,  I  yield  to  no  one  in 
saying  that  that  connection  ought  not  to  be 
broken.     T  say  we  are  infinitely  better  here 
under  the  flag  of  Great  Britain  than  under 
that  of  the  United  States.     (Hear,  hear.) 
But  no  reason  is  assigned  ;  we  are  not  told 
in  what  way  the  connection  is  to  be  strength- 
ened.    Can  you  alter  the  geographical  posi- 
tion of  the  country  ?   Will  you  have  any  more 
people   or  means  ?     Your   revenue   is   not 
increased,  nor  is  your  population,  nor  is  your 
geographical  position  altered.     Is  it  because 
the  people  of  the  Lower  Provinces  are  ready 
to  expend  a  large  sum  for  the  defence  of  the 
country  ?     Why,   to  show  you  what  those 
provinces  consider  it  necessary  to  do  in  this 
direction,  I  will  read  a  short  extract  from  a 
statement  of  the  Financial  Secretary  of  Nova 
Scotia : — 

As  regards  the  sum  ])roposed  to  be  granted  for 
the  militia — $20,000 — honorable  gentlemen  might 
think  it  a  large  amount  in  the  present  state  of  the 
finances  ;  but,  looking  at  the  large  sum  already 
expended,  and  still  being  expended  in  Canada — 
the  efforts  being  made  in  New  Brunswick  for  a 
similar  object — would  it  be  creditable  to  us  as 
Nova  Scotians,  particularly  considering  the  efforts 
put  forth  by  the  British  Government  to  protect 
us,  to  expend  a  less  sum? 

The  large  sum  of  §20,000  was  to  be  ex- 
pended, and  that  at  a  time  when  the  expen- 
sive Militia  Bill,  to  which  1  have  alluded,  was 
before  this  House.  (Hear,  hear.)  Twenty 
thousand  dollars  was  the  sum  that  was  pro- 
posed by  the  Legislature  of  Nova  Scotia,  the 
next  important  colony  to  Canada,  at  a  time 
when  we  were  told^here  that  we   were  in 


danger  from  our  neighbors  across  the  line 
But  s)mething  more  was  said  by  the  Fin- 
ancial Secretary.  The  present  Premier  was 
pressing  to  strike  out  this  item  and  put 
§8,000  instead,  and  the  Financial  Secretary 
said : — 

Under  ordinary  circumstances  he  would  agree 
with  the  honorable  member  as  to  striking  out  the 
$12,000  extra  grant  for  the  militia  ;  but  consider- 
ing the  large  sum  about  to  be  expended  on  this 
service  by  New  Brunswick,  the  enormous  ex- 
penditure of  the  Home  Grovernmeut  for  our  pro- 
tection, and  what  they  expected  of  us,  he  con- 
sidered the  appropriation  necessary.  He  would 
be  ashamed  of  the  Government  if  they  had  not 
proposed  this  vote,  and  he  was  prepared  to  stand 
or  fall  by  it,  as  he  felt  that  the  honor  of  the 
country  was  at  stake. 

The  honor  of  the   country  was  at  stake  in 
this  $20,000.    New  Brunswick  the  same  year 
spent  §15,000.     Now,  I  opposed  the  expen- 
sive Militia  Bill  submitted  to  this  House ; 
but  then  the  Grovernment  had  expended  over 
half  a  million   dollars   a  year  in  militia  ex- 
penses ;  and  1  admit  they  are  going  on  very 
properly    now.      (^IJear,    hear.)       Then  we 
have   been    told    that    this    Confederation 
scheme  is  going  to  raise  the  credit  of  the 
country.     My  honorable  friend  from  Saugeen 
ventured  the  statement  that  on   the  intelli- 
gence of  the  adoption  of  these   resolutions 
in  the  Conference  reaching  England,  funds 
rose   fifteen  to    seventeen   per    cent.     Now, 
does  any  honorable  gentleman  suppose  for  a 
moment  that  that  was  the  cause  for  this  rise  ? 
(A  voice — It  was.)     I  have  here  from  the 
files  of  the  London  Times,  the  quotations  of 
Canadian    Securities,    and    on    the    7th    of 
November, — the  date  of    His  Excellency's 
letter,  conveying  information  of  the  adoption 
of  the  scheme, — the  inscribed  stock  was  86 
to  90. 

Hon.  Mr.  3IACPHERS0N— I  stated  a 
fact  when  I  said  that  that  rise  took  place  in 
consequence  of  the  resolutions.  I  would  like 
my  honorable  friend  to  explain  it  in  any 
other  way. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— We  know  that 
there  are  various  causes  which  operate  in 
raising  or  depressing  stocks  in  England, 
the  rate  of  interest  of  the  Bank  of  England, 
&c.  Well,  on  the  7th  of  November  as  I 
said,  the  quotation  was  86  to  90,  and  I  find 
that  rn  the  25th  November,  giving  time  for 
the  news  to  reach  England,  it  was  only  88 
tn  92.  And  now,  with  a  strong  probability 
of  the  measure  passing,  what  is  the  price  ? 
The  last  quotation  is  81  to  83. 


204 


Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON.— I  suppose 
the  honorable  member  knows  the  reason  of 
this  decline.  Soon  after  what  was  done  in 
the  Conference  was  known  in  England,  the 
St.  Alban's  raid  took  place,  and  the  con- 
sequence of  the  eveats  connected  with  that 
was  a  fall  of  17  or  ]  8  per  cent,  in  our  securities. 

Hon.  3Ir.  SEYjOUR. — In  consequence 
of  the  wise  policy  ot  the  statesmen  of  Eng- 
land friendly  relations  had  been  maintained 
with  our  neighbours.  It  is  true  the  pass- 
port system  was  put  on ,  but  it  is  to  be  removed 
again,  and  all  things  are  to  become  as  they 
were  before,  with  the  exception,  perhaps,  of 
the  Reciprocity  Treaty.  Every  man  of 
business  knows  that  that  rise  in  stocks  was 
not  caused  by  anything  connected  with  the 
Confederation  scheme.  Why  should  it  ? 
What  is  it  that  increases  the  value  of  stocks 
and  depreciates  them  ?  Is  it  not  the  confi- 
dence of  capitalits  who  have  invested  in 
them,  that  the  interest  will  be  paid.  But 
under  this  Confederation  scheme  will  not 
our  expenses  be  increased?  This  Intercolo- 
nial Railway  must  be  built  and  kept  up,  and 
this  must  be  at  the  cbst  of  Canada.  You 
have  got  your  local  governments  to  keep  up, 
and  you  have  got  your  Confederate  Govern- 
ment to  keep  up,  and  if  we  look  at  the  ex- 
perience of  the  past,  is  it  likely  there  will 
be  any  reduction  in  the  future  ?  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  have  got  figures  here  to  shew  what 
the  cost  of  the  two  governments  was  before  the 
union  of  the  provinces.  The  whole  expense 
of  the  government  of  Lower  Canada,  with  the 
salaries  of  officers,  &c.,  was  £57,618.  In  Up- 
per Canada  we  were  as  economical.  We  were 
then  under  the  rule  of  the  Family  Compact, 
and  a  worse  compact  we  might  have.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)  They  were  high-mind- 
ed, and  they  did  not  stoop  to  matters  of  cor- 
ruption, as  others  have  done  since.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  whole  expenses  of  the  two  gov- 
ernments were  only  a  little  over  £100,000  a 
year.  What  are  they  now  ?  Some  two  years 
ago  the  expenses  of  the  civil  government 
alone,  not  including  the  cost  of  the  militia, 
were  83,000,000.  Here,  in  a  little  more 
than  twenty  years,  the  expenses  have  in- 
creased seven-fold,  uotwitlistauding  that  wo 
have  only  one  Government.  Now,  what  are 
we  to  expect  from  the  Confederate  Govern 
ment  ?  Every  honorable  member  knows 
that  things  must  be  made  pleasant  for  every- 
body, and  when  you  are  forming  a  Confed- 
erate Government,  theso  eipi-'nHes  must  bo 
continued.     You  cannot  turn  people  adril'fc, 


and  you  must  either  employ  or  pension  them. 
Are  we  to  suppose  that  because  there  is  a 
Federation,  these  expenses  will  be  lessened? 
I  admit  that  in  the  Lower  Provinces  they 
have  managed  their  affairs  with  less  expense 
than  we  have.  But  now  we  will  have  the 
local  governments  to  pay  for.  We  will 
have  another  staff"  to  keep  up  for  each  pro- 
vince, which  will  add  very  materially  to  our 
expenses.  The  money  must  come  out  of  the 
pockets  of  the  people,  who  will  have  to  pay 
it  either  by  direct  or  indirect  taxation. 
What  possible  difi"erence  can  it  make  to  the 
people  of  this  country,  whether  they  pay  it 
directly  by  taxation  or  in  duties  ?  Direct 
taxation  must  be  imposed,  and  that  to  a  large 
extent,  by  the  local  governments. 

It  being  six  o'clock,  the  Speaker  left  the 
Chair. 

After  the  dinner  recess, — 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR,  continuing  his 
remarks,  said — I  think,  honorable  gentlemen, 
that,  taking  into  consideration  the  vast  im- 
portance of  this  scheme — its  importance  in  a 
financial  point  of  view  alon«,  without  saying 
one  word  about  the  principle  of  changing  the 
Constitution  without  consulting  the  people — 
there  should  be  an  appeal  to  the  country 
before  it  is  carried  into  effect.  A  point 
which  I  did  not  enter  fully  into  before  the 
recess  was  the  argument  that  Confederation 
would  strengthen  the  connection  with  the 
Mother  Country.  Now,  do  we  not  see  all  the 
financial  reformers  in  England,  with  the 
Timef.  and  other  influential  organs  of  the 
press,  which  on  financial  grounds  were  desir- 
ous of  separating  the  colonies  from  the  parent 
state,  all  advocating  this  measure  in  the 
warmest  possible  manner?  Undoubtedly  the 
imperial  government  will  sanction  the  scheme, 
but  it  is  the  policy  now  of  that  Government 
to  sanction  anything  of  a  local  character  that 
the  colonies  desire.  Well,  in  addition  to 
the  press  that  is  favorable  to  the  separation 
of  the  colonies  from  the  AJother  Country,  and 
financial  reformers  like  Goldwin  S.mith 
and  others  who  have  favored  the  same  views, 
what  was  stated  a  short  time  ago  by  the 
Under  Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonioa 
to  his  constituents  ?  In  speaking  of  tliis 
scheme,  he  said  it  was  favored  by  the  Imperial 
Government  for  the  purpose  of  preparing  U8 
for  a  chniigo  in  our  relations  ;  for  the  pur- 
pose of  educating  us  to  defend  ourselvei. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Was  it  not  very  strong  lan- 
guage, coming  as  it  did  from  no  loss  a  per- 
Bonago  than  the   Under  Secretary    for  the 


205 


Colonies,  that  the  Imperial  Grovernment  is 
ready  to  favor  a  separation  whenever  we 
asked  for  it  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  I  am 
not  one  of  those  honorable  gentlemen  who 
wish  to  see  the  day  arrive  when  the  colonies 
will  ask  for  such  separation.  I  am  not  one 
of  those  who  wish  to  educate  the  people  to 
that  idea,  but  would  rather  impress  upon 
them  the  paramount  importance  of  endea- 
voring to  maintain  the  union  and  connection 
with  the  Mother  Country.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DeBEAUJEU— What  is  the 
opinion  of  the  foreign  press  with  regard  to 
us?  Has  it  not  threatened  us,  so  that  it  is 
our  duty  to  be  prepared  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— I  suppose  my 
honorable  friend  alludes  to  the  press  of  the 
neighboring  republic.  We  have  certainly 
seen  some  of  those  newspapers,  but  very  few 
of  them  threatening  to  invade  and  overrun 
us,  but  have  you  heard  anything  of  that  kind 
from  the  Government  of  the  country,  and 
are  not  our  relations  with  it  of  the  most 
friendly  character  ?  Are  you  to  be  governed 
in  your  conduct  by  the  rash  utterances  of  a 
few  newspapers, — perhaps  sensation  news- 
papers ? 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— Has  not 
Mr.  Seward  threatened  us  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— Not  since  he 
entered  the  Government.  (Hear,  hear,  and 
laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Yes,  just  be- 
fore the  last  presidental  election. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— Well,  that  is  a 
matter  of  very  little  importance.  (Laughter.) 
Now,  honorable  gentlemen,  I  have  shown 
that  this  scheme  has  no  precedent,  even  on 
the  other  side  of  the  line.  Among  all  the 
wild  republican  theories  of  our  neighbors, 
they  have  never  proposed  to  change  the 
Constitution  in  this  manner — never  changed 
it,  at  all  events,  without  the  consent  of  the 
people,  obtained  in  some  form  or  other. 
Reference  has  been  made,  I  think,  by  my 
honorable  friend  in  front  (Hon.  Mr.  Ros.^) 
to  the  union  of  England  and  Ireland.  Well, 
every  hoLorable  member  knows  the  means 
employed  to  bring  about  that  union.  Mat, 
in  his  Constitutional  History^  states  that 
£1,500,000  sterling  were  spent  in  carrying 
it.  But  how  was  the  representation  dealt 
with  in  that  case  ?  Did  England,  being  the 
richer  country,  possessing  the  largest  share 
of  wealth  and  capital,  give  a  preponderance 
of  the  representation  to  Ireland,  as  we  pro- 
pose to  give  to  the  Lower  Provinces  ? 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — That  was  a  legislative 
union,  while  in  this  the  representation  will 
be  based  on  population. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— That  does  not 
affect  the  case.  After  the  Irish  union  was 
effected,  what  was  the  representation  of  Ire- 
land in  the  House  of  Commons  ?  It  was 
100  members  in  a  total  number  of  656  ;  and 
in  the  House  of  Lords  28  Peers,  iu  a  House 
of  450  members.  And  although  it  was  con- 
sidered by  England  an  absolute  necessity 
that  the  union  should  be  brought  ribout,  she 
did  not  give  a  preponderance,  and  scarcely  a 
fair  share,  of  the  representation  to  the  sister 
kingdom. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — That  is  because  in  the 
English  Parliament  they  do  not  recognize 
the  principle  of  representation  by  population, 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— My  hon.  friends 
will  say  that  this  proposed  change  is  neither 
American  nor  English. 

SEVERAL  HON.  MEMBERS— It  is 
Canadian.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— No,  it  is  neither 
one  nor  the  other ;  it  is  a  mongrel  Constitu- 
tion. (Laughter.)  In  England  no  import- 
ant change  in  the  laws  is  ever  carried  with- 
out being  discusse  1  in  Parliament,  session 
after  session,  followed  by  an  appeal  to  the 
people  upon  it.  Even  so  unimportant  a 
change — or  what  would,  in  comparison  with 
this  scheme,  be  here  regarded  as  so  unim- 
portant a  change — as  the  extensim  of  the 
franchise,  has  been  discussed  in  Parliament 
for  years,  and  submitted  to  the  people  before 
passing  into  law.  Now,  I  would  like  to  en- 
quire of  honorable  gentlemen,  what  are  the 
legitimate  functions  of  the  Legislature  of  this 
country.  Do  we  not  assemble  here  for  the 
purpose  of  enacting  good  and  wholesome 
laws  for  the  people  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Those 
laws  may  be  repealed,  if  they  chance  not  to 
meet  public  approval ;  but  here  yc  u  propose 
to  change  the  Constitution — to  change  the 
whole  fabric  of  society — in  fact  to  revolu- 
tionize society,  without  asking  the  consent 
of  the  people,  and  without  the  possibility — 
at  any  rate,  the  reasonable  possibility — of 
this  important  change  ever  being;  reconsid- 
ered. Does  not  this  important  subject  affect 
every  freeholder  in  the  country  as  much  as 
it  affects  us,  and  are  there  not  thousands  of 
people  in  the  country  who  have  as  great  an 
interest  in  it  as  the  men.bers  of  the  Execu- 
tive Council  of  Canada  ?  And  yet,  forsooth, 
these  gentlemen  prepare  a  schema,  bring  it 
down  to  this  House,  and  tell  the  representa- 


206 


tives  of  the  people  that  they  are  not  at  liberty 
to  ascertain  the  wishes  of  the  people  respect- 
ing it,  nor  to  alter  it  in  any  manner,  but 
that  they  must  take  it  as  it  is.  Still  we  are 
told,  notwithstanding  all  this,  that  this  is 
freedom,  and  that  we  are  a  free  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— You  are  at 
liberty  either  to  accept  or  reject  it.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR- Well,  that  is  all 
very  well,  but  we  are  told  we  must  accept 
the  scheme  as  it  is;  and  all  the  influence 
that  the  Government  can  use — which  I  fear 
will  be  successfully  used — (hear,  hear) — will 
be  employed  to  carry  it  through  without  the 
people  having  an  opportunity  of  saying  yea 
or  nay  upon  it.  We  are  told  it  is  not  Brit- 
ish to  permit  this — even  to  pass  a  short  act 
allowing  the  people  to  vote  upon  it ;  but  if 
this  is  not  British,  neither  is  the  proposi- 
tion itself.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  entreat  hon- 
orable members  not  to  pass  a  measure  of 
this  importance  without  delaying  it  some 
little  time,  at  all  events,  for  the  purpose  of 
obtainiug  an  expression  of  public  opinion 
upon  it.  The  people  who  are  to  be  governed 
by  it,  who  are  for  all  time  to  come  to  live 
under  this  Constitution,  certainly  have  a 
right  to  be  consulted  before  it  is  consum- 
mated ;  and  for  the  special  well-being  of 
the  country,  I  hope  and  trust  it  will  not  pass 
without  affording  them  that  opportunity. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BENNETT  said— Honorable 
gentlemen,  after  the  many  able  and  eloquent 
speeches  we  have  heard  on  this  subject,  it 
may  be  presumptuous  in  me  to  offer  any  re- 
marks—  (cries  of  "go  on.") — ^but  I  cannot 
consent  to  give  a  silent  vote  upon  the  ques- 
tion before  the  House,  and  I  think  I  would 
be  wanting  in  my  duty  to  those  who  sent  me 
here  if  I  did  not  make  some  ob.servations 
upon  this  important  subject.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  think  honorable  gentlemen  will  agree  with 
me  that  this  project  is  one  of  the  most  impor- 
tant—  indeed,  the  most  important — that  h;is 
ever  been  brought  before  the  Legislature  of 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  are  about  to 
witness  a  great  change  in  the  Constitution  of 
the  country,  the  like  of  which  has  not  been 
Been  since  the  union  of  the  provinces;  and  I 
am  free  to  say  that  a  change  of  some  kind  or 
other  is  imperatively  demanded,  for  1  think 
that  if  the  present  state  of  things  were  al- 
lowed to  coniiniiu  it  would  bo  difficult,  if  not 
imposjiible,  to  carry  on  the  (Joverninent  Jis  it 
has  been  carried  on  for  the  last  three  or  four 
years.  (Hear,  hear.)     Wc  have  been  told  by 


the  honorable  and  gallant  gentleman  at  the 
head  of  the  Government  that  we  have  been 
on  an  inclined  plane,  and  I  am  sure  that  if 
some  remedy  had  not  been  proposed  we  would 
have  found  ourselves  sliding  into  a  state  of 
anarchy  from  the  bitterness  of  feeling  which 
prevailed  in  the  country.  I  am  not  so  sanguine, 
as  some  honorable  gentlemen  seem  to  be,  that 
when  we  get  Confederation  we  shall  have  a 
sort  of  political  millennium,  that  we  shall  have 
no  more  political  storms  and  agitations,  but 
that  we  shall  then  enjoy  nothing  but  the  calm 
and  sunshine  of  political  life.  But  I  think 
we  will  find  ourselves  pretty  much  in  the 
same  position  a.s  betbre  with  regard  to  parties 
— that  we  shall  have  a  Government  party  and 
an  Opposition,  for  in  all  free  constitutional 
governments  it  is  better  to  have  an  opposition 
than  to  be  without  one.  I  object,  not  to 
a  healthy  opposition,  but  to  a  factious  one. 
(Hear,  hear.)  From  the  difference  in  the 
laws,  language  and  institutions  of  the  several 
provinces  it  is  clear  that  a  legislative  union 
of  them  is  out  of  the  question.  The  princi- 
ple of  the  double  majority,  as  a  remedy  for 
our  difl&culties,  has  proved  to  be  a  failure  ; 
representation  by  population,  which  would 
have  satisfied  Upper  Canada,  has  been  per- 
sistently denied  by  Lower  Canada ;  and, 
therefore,  I  see  no  resource  but  to  full  back 
upon  the  project  of  the  Confederation  of  the 
provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  would  like  to 
remark  upon  the  peculiar  position  in  which 
the  elected  members  of  this  House  stand  in 
reference  to  this  subject.  It  has  been  said 
that,  if  they  vote  for  the  resolutions,  they  vote 
to  make  themselves  members  of  the  House 
for  life ;  that  this  was  not  contemplated  by 
the  constituencies  when  they  were  elected; 
and  that  it  would  be  destroying  the  franchise 
and  taking  away  a  right  from  the  people 
which  the  House  had  no  authority  to  do. 
Well,  all  I  can  say  is,  that  I  have  heard  no 
such  objections  from  the  people  of  the  con- 
stituency which  I  have  the  honor  to  repre- 
sent. All  I  have  heard  from  them  is  a  oJill 
for  delay  in  the  consideration  of  this  (juestion, 
and  I  maintjiin  that  delay  is  not  fatal  or 
injuriou.s  to  it.  (Hour,  hear.)  We  have 
delayed  it  already  lor  weeks ;  in  New  Bruns- 
wick it  has  been  po.stponcd  till  afti-r  the  gen- 
enil  election;  and  can  an}'  one  show  me  that 
it  will  injure  the  meaflurc  to  put  it  off  for  a 
short  time  longer?  Surely  if  it  is  good  now, 
it  will  be  just  as  good  twelve  months  hence. 
(Hoar,  hear.)  The  resolutions  have  been 
drawn  up  by  able,  talented,  but  fallible  men ; 
and  therefore  we  ought  to  weigh  them  care- 


207 


fully  before  finally  passing  them.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  have  no  doubt  it  is  the  opinion  of 
every  man — even  of  the  delegates  who  framed 
these  resolutions — that  if  he  had  the  power 
he  would  change  them  in  some  particular. 
If  I  had  the  power  I  have  no  hesitation  in 
saying  that  I  would  change  them ;  but  we 
must  take  them  as  a  whole  or  reject  them 
altogether.  When  I  hear  of  amendments 
being  moved  by  different  honorable  gentle- 
men, therefore,  I  am  reminded  of  the  looker- 
on  at  a  game  of  chess.  He  imagines  that  he 
could  improve  many  of  the  moves  made  by 
the  players,  but  it  would  be  found,  if  his  sug- 
gestions were  followed,  that  the  end  would  be 
that  he  would  find  himself  checkmated  and 
the  game  lost.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  looking 
over  the  resolutions  I  have  found  some  things 
that  are  good,  and  some  that  are  open  to  ob- 
jection ;  but,  upon  a  careful  balance  of  both, 
I  have  come  to  the  conclusion  that  the  good 
preponderates.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  would,  there- 
fore, hesitate  to  take  upon  myself  the  respon- 
sibility of  risking  the  defeat  of  the  measure 
by  voting  for  any  amendment  to  them. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ALEXANDER  said— I  shall 
not  now  trespass  at  any  length  upon  the  in- 
dulgence of  this  House.     My  honorable  friend 
from  Port  Hope  (Hon.  Mr.  Seymour)  pos- 
sesses the  esteem  and  respect  not  only  of  the 
Legislative  Council,  but  of  the  country,  from 
the  straightforward  and  consistent  course  he 
has  ever  pursued  on  the  floor  of  Parliament  in 
regard  to  all  great  questions  of  public  interest, 
and  it  is  with  very  great  diffidence  and  re- 
luctance   that    I   venture   to    challenge   the 
figures,    generally,    stated  by   my  honorable 
friend,  in  the  position  he  took,  and  the  deduc- 
tions he  drew  from  them,  in  reference  to  the 
proposed  Confederation.      But  my  honorable 
friend  took  surely  a  most  gloomy  view  of  the 
subject.     He   apprehended  the  worst  conse- 
quences and  results  from  the  proposed  alli- 
ance.     The    reply  to    that  is  that    it    just 
depends  upon  ourselves — it  depends  upon  the 
members  of  the  new  Confederate  Legislature 
whether  good  or  evil  shall  flow  from  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)     If  they  proceed  to  work  out  the  Con- 
stitution with  reasonable  irugality  and  care, 
determined  to  keep  down  the  public  expendi- 
ture, and  prevent  all  jobbery  in  the  carrying 
out  of  public  improvements,  then,  I  am  satis- 
fied that  the  Confederation  may  be  carried  out 
without  materially  increasing  the  public  bur- 
dens ;  or,  at  all  events,  that  our  position  will  be 
such,  that  they  will  not  fall  more  heavily  upon 
us  as   a    whole.     The  honorable    gentleman 


particularized  certain  instances  of  alleged  in- 
justice, such  as  the  financial  arrangements 
with  regard  to  Newfoundland  and  New  Bruns- 
wick. Why,  surely  there  can  be  no  great  in- 
justice to  Canada,  in  our  agreeing  on  the  one 
hand  to  allow  certain  subsidies,  not  of  large 
amount,  while  we  take  the  whole  of  their 
excise  and  custom  duties  with  the  power  of 
levying  a  uniform  tariff.  As  regards  the  pro- 
bable adequacy  of  the  revenue  of  the  proposed 
General  Government  to  meet  all  the  items  of 
ordinary  expenditure,  I  will  leave  my  honor- 
able friend  from  Port  Hope  to  disprove  the 
correctness  of  the  figures  given  by  the  M  inister 
of  Finance  at  Sherbrooke.  For  my  own 
part,  I  would  not  presume  to  challenge  the 
statements  of  so  able  a  Minister  of  the  Crown. 
But  it  is  said  that  to  meet  the  expense  of  the 
Local  Government,  we  would  require  to  have 
recourse  to  heavy  direct  taxation  upon  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada.  I  shall  proceed  to  show 
that  this  would  not  be  necessary,  unless  the 
Local  Legislature  ran  out.  Let  us  see  what 
will  be  the  position  of  Upper  Canada,  which  is 
to  receive  upon  the  basis  of  80  cents  per  head, 
$1,120,000.  The  local  items  which  will  have 
to  be  met  out  of  that  appropriation  will  be  as 
follows : — 

Education $274,112 

Hospitals  and  charities 125,000 

Penitentiary  and  reformatories 76,000 

Agricultural  societies 52,000 

Roads  and  bridges 80,000 

Police 15,000 

Literary  and  gcientific  institutions 7,000 

$629,112 

Legislation. 100,000 

Civil  Government,  Lieut. -Governor  and 

staff 120,000 


Leaving  a  balance  for  other  purposes. 


$849,112 
.  270,888 

$1,120,000 

The  prevailing  desire  in  my  section  of  West- 
ern Canada  is,  that  the  Local  Legislature 
shall  only  be  one  Chamber  of  thirty  members, 
with  a  very  limited  inexpensive  Executive — 
a  sort  of  large  municipal  deliberative  body — 
which  would  involve  a  small  expenditure,  and 
if  such  views  are  carried  out,  there  are  no 
reasonable  grounds  for  apprehending  the  ne- 
cessity for  direct  taxation.  But  I  did  not 
intend  when  I  rose  to  enter  again  at  length 
upon  such  details.  I  was  only  desirous  to 
explain  the  course  which  I  shall  be  obliged  to 
pursue  in  reference  to  the  amendment  of  the 
honorable  member  for  the  division  of  Welling- 


208 


ton.  After  the  leader  of  the  Government,  in 
another  quarter,  has  declared  that  they  will 
look  upon  any  amendment  of  an  important 
detail  as  a  defeat  of  the  whole  scheme,  I  am 
not  prepared  to  take  the  responsibility  of  vot- 
ing for  an  amendment  which  would  have  such 
an  effect.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  while  I  am 
satisfied  that  I  am  acting  in  accordance  with 
the  views  of  my  constituents  in  voting  in  the 
negative,  I  do  think  that  an  opportunity  should 
be  aflforded  to  any  of  the  members  of  this 
House  to  record  the  views  of  their  constituents 
upon  this  or  upon  any  of  the  other  details  to 
which  they  take  exception,  and  I  therefore 
beg  to  move  in  amendment,  seconded  by  the 
Hon.  Mr.  Skead, — 

That  it  is  proper  that  any  members  of  this 
House  should  be  afiforded  an  opportunity  of  re- 
cording their  views  in  regard  to  the  proposed 
change  in  the  manner  of  appointing  the  members 
of  the  Legislative  Council.  But  that  the  way 
to  efiect  this  in  the  most  satisfactory  manner, 
without  endangering  the  safety  of  the  Confedera- 
tion as  a  whole,  will  be  to  enter  a  memorial  or 
protest  upon  the  Journals  of  this  House,  embody- 
ing their  views  upon  this  important  detail  of  the 
Confederation.  A  copy  of  such  memorial  or 
protest  to  be  transmitted  to  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment along  with  the  resolution*  now  before  this 
House. 

Ho\.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  should  like  to 
know  in  what  position  I  would  be  placed  if 
the  amendment  of  the  honorable  gentleman 
was  carried.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  I  support 
the  amendment  of  the  honorable  member 
from  the  Wellington  Division  (Hon.  Mr. 
Sanborn)  it  would  appear,  from  this  amend- 
ment, if  it  were  adopted,  that  I  would  have 
to  support  the  substantive  resolutions  also. 
I  would  like  to  know  how  these  two  things 
can  be  done  at  the  same  time. 

Hon.  Mr.  UOSSE— I  do  not  think  the 
amendment  is  in  order,  and  I  raise  that  ob- 
jection to  it. 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU  — The  rules 
of  the  House  provide  for  protests  being  made 
by  members,  and  the  amendment  is,  therefore, 
unnecessary. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUllKIE— I  would  like  to  hear 
some  further  explanation  from  my  honorable 
friend  from  the  (!"rc  Pivi^inu,  n'specting  this 
amendment. 

Hon.  Mr.  KEESOR— Is  it  in  ordor? 

The  Hon.  the  SPEAlvEll— The  amend- 
ment is  not  in  order.  The  efiect  of  it  would 
be  simply  to  allirm  the  23rd  rule  of  this 
HouBt;,  wliich  provides  that  any  member  may 
enter  liis   protest  against  any  action  ou  the 


part  of  the  House.  This  amendment  is  sim- 
ply a  reiteration  of  that  rule,  and  1  must, 
therefore,  declare  that,  in  my  opinion,  it  is 
out  of  order.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — As  the  honorable 
member  from  the  Gore  Division  particularly 
desires  to  express  an  opinion  upon  the  ques- 
tion whether  the  elective  principle  shall  be 
abolished  or  not,  I  will,  with  the  perniLs- 
sion  of  the  House,  give  notice  of  a  motion 
which  I  intend  to  move,  in  amendment  to  the 
main  resolution  before  the  House  : — 

That  the  legislative  councillors  representing 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  in  the  Legislative 
Council  of  the  General  Legislature,  shall  be 
elected  as  at  present,  to  represent  the  forty-eight 
electoral  divisions  mentioned  in  schedule  A  of 
chapter  first  of  the  Consolidated  Statutes  of 
Canada,  and  each  such  councillor  shall  reside  or 
possess  the  qualification  in  the  division  he  is 
elected  to  represent. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— At  this  stage  of 
the  debate  I  will  take  the  opportunity  of  re- 
ferring tasome  figures  just  used  by  the  hon- 
orable member  from  the  Gore  Division,  who 
gave  us  the  impression  that  the  local  govern- 
ments would  have  much  more  than  sufiicient 
means  to  carry  on  their  local  afiairs  from  the  sub- 
sidies granted  to  them  by  the  General  Govern- 
ment. Now,  it  is  very  ea.sy  to  make  this 
statement,  but  if  the  honorable  gentleman 
will  look  back  to  the  time  of  the  union  of 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  he  will  find  that, 
immediately  before  that  union,  the  cost  of 
governing  Upper  Canada  by  its  separate  Le- 
gislature, with  a  population  of  450,000,  was 
§770,000  a-year  ;  and  we  have  heard  it  stated 
to-day  that  the  people  were  then  governed 
cheaply,  honestly  and  properly.  If  it  cost 
§770,000  to  govern  -150,000  people  in  ITpper 
Canada  in  1839,  how  much,  in  tho  same  pro- 
portion, will  it  cost  to  govern  1,301!, 000  of 
people  now  in  that  section  under  the  Con- 
federation ?  The  answer  is,  82,170,000  a- 
year,  or,  in  other  words,  just  about  double 
the  amount  of  the  local  subsidy. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALEXANDER— The  honora- 
ble gentleman  forgets  that  the  Federal  Gov- 
oniuuMit  will  iucur  a  large  part  of  the  expen- 
diture of  that  province  fornitrlv  l)>»rno  by 
tho  Local  Ijcgislature. 

I1(.N.  Mr.  CURRIh:— 1  am  quite  well 
aware  of  the  burdens  the  General  Govern- 
ment will  boar,  and  also  aware  that  powem 
will  be  given  to  it  over  certain  subjects  for- 
nuTly  dealt  with  by  the  Local  Legi.'^^laturo. 
As  to  Lower  Cauada,  it  had  at  tho  time  of 


209 


the  union,  650,000  inhabitants,  200,000  more  i 
than  the  population  of  Upper  Canada,  al-  ] 
though  its  government  cost  only  $573,348  ; 
and  in  the  same  proportion,  provided  the  new 
Local  Legislature  is  equally  economical  as 
the  old,  this  sum  will  be  increased  to 
$1,230,000— some  $400,000  over  and  above 
the  local  subsidy,  which  excess  will,  of  course, 
have  to  be  raised  by  direct  taxation.  These 
figures,  taken  from  the  Public  Accounts, 
are  easily  accessible  by  the  honorable  member 
from  the  Gore  Division,  and  are,  of  course, 
entirely  reliable, 

Hon.  Mr.  ALEXANDER— The  figures 
I  presented  to  the  House  are  also  reliable, 
and  I  challenge  the  honorable  gentleman  to 
dispute  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  ARMAND— I  have  listened  at- 
tentively to  the  honorable  members  who  have 
spoken  to  the  question  before    the   House, 
some  of  whom  have  manifested  fear  in  re- 
gard to  the  changes  proposed  to  bo  introduced 
in  the  Constitution,  and  I  am  far  from  blam- 
ing them,  but  it  is  to  be  observed  that  none 
of  them  have  proposed  a  remedy  for  the  dif- 
ficulties of  the  situation.     Two  or  three  said 
that  the  measure  had  taken  the  Legislature 
and  the  country  by  surprise,  but  it  seems  to 
me  that  those  honorable  members  have  for- 
gotten that    the  question   of   Confederation 
was  discussed  both  in  Parliament  and  in  the 
country  in  1859,   and   that  since  then   the 
Legislature  and  the  press  have  occupied  them- 
selves with  it  often   enough.      Did  not  the 
Legislative  Assembly  last  year  name  a  com- 
mittee to  inquire  into  the  difficulties  wkich 
seemed  to  be  hurrying  us  on  to  anarchy,  and 
did  not  that  committee  report  that  the  remedy 
for  those  evils    was  Confederation?      Those 
honorable  members  also  seem  to  forget  that 
since    the  Government   disclosed   its    policy 
through  the  magnificent  speech  of  the  Min- 
ister of  Finance  to  his  constituents  at  Sher- 
brooke — a  speech  circulated  in  all  parts  of  the 
country  by  the  press  of  the  various  political 
parties — 24  elections  have  taken  place,  13  for 
this  honorable  House  and  1 1  for  the  other. 
Of  the  13  for  this   House   three  candidates 
only  declared  themselves  opposed  to  Confed- 
eration, and  of  those  three,  but  one  was  elect- 
ed.   Of  the  11  for  the  Assembly,  one  only  ob- 
jected to  it,  and  it  is  said  that  he  will  now 
vote  for  the  measure.      Relative  to  that  pro- 
vision in  the  resolutions  of  the  Conference, 
having  regard  to  the  elective  principle  in  the 
Legislative  Council,  I  have  already  stated  my 
opinion,  and  I  would  tell  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  the  Wellington  Division  that  it  seems 

28 


to  me  that  the  delegates,  who  are  all  eminent 
men,  could  not  have  come  to  such  a  conclusion 
except  after  mature  deliberation.     I  can  well 
understand  that  before  England  permitted  us 
to  adopt  its  Constitution — gave  us  responsible 
government,   allowed  us  the    control   of  our 
own  affairs ;  and  when  its  governor  swere  not 
advised  by  ministers  responsible  to  the  peo- 
ple, but    were  surrounded  by   advisers   who 
were  more  like  clerks,  who  to  preserve  their 
salaries  were  often  obliged  to  submit  to  the 
arbitrary   will  of  their  master — I  can  easily 
conceive,  I  repeat,  that  it  was  expedient  to  seek 
a  remedy  for  the  wrongs   under    which  we 
then  labored.       But  to-day,  when  the  parent 
state  requires  that  its  governors  shall  choose 
advisers  responsible  to  the  people,  the  elective 
system  is  no  longer  needful  in  relation  to  fin- 
ance or  to  the  tranqaillity  and  safety  of  the 
people.     As  to  finance,  I  will  certainly  not  say 
that  officers  of  the  Government  take  advan- 
tage of  their  position  to  speculate  in  setting 
up  ephemeral  candidates — most  assuredly  not ; 
but  I  will  say  that  many  citizens,  little  careful 
of  their  true  interest  and  of  the  future  of  their 
country,  convert  election  days  into   days   of 
speculation,  by  giving  rise  to  corruption,  vio- 
lence and  perjury ;  and  I  shall  be  ready,  when- 
ever required,  to  prove  as  clearly  as  that  two 
and  two  make  four,  that  in  several  divisions 
the  election  resembled  civil  warfare  more  than 
proper  election  contests.     I  knoAV  that  many 
persons,  I  will  not  say  urged  by  an  inordin- 
ate liberalism,  degenerating  into  demagogy — 
for  I  do  not  believe  we  have  in  our  young 
country  any  of  those  fierce  demagogues — but 
I  will  say,  that  there  are  persons  who  wish  that 
all  the  offices  under  the  State  should  be  sub- 
mitted to    universal    suffrage,   because  they 
know  that  in  such  circumstances  they  could 
impose   upon   the   sympathy    and    the  judg- 
ment of  the  people.       But  I  would    say  to 
such   persons  —  gentlemen,  do    not    suppose 
yourselves   wiser    statesmen    than    those   of 
the  Mother  Country,  who   have   established 
their  Constitution  after  centuries   of   efforts 
and    contests,    and    who    work    it    after  the 
experience   of  centuries.      I   would  further 
tell  them  "  do  not  suppose  yourselves  better 
able   to  appreciate   the  British  Constitution 
than  Monsieur  MoNTALEiTBERT,  one  of  the 
great  literati  of  the  day,  the   historian  and 
eminent  statesman;  or  than    M.    Berryer, 
the  prince  of  the  French  bar,  both  of  whom 
proclaimed  but  recently  that  that  Constitution 
was  one  of  the  most  beautiful  and  free  that 
could  possibly  be  desired."      I  congratulate 
the  Goverument  upon  desiring  to  preserve  so 


'210 


mucli  of  this  law  as  may  appear  rational  and 
good.     I  refer  to  the  territorial  divisions  and 
the  propriety  of  causing  them  to  be  repre- 
sented by  persons  -who  have  vested  interests 
therein ;  and  indeed  liow  could  any  one  rep- 
resent with  equal  devotion  and  advantage  a 
division,  as  the  man  who  had  sacred  rights 
therein,  whether  by  personal  residence  or  the 
ownership  of  the   property  upon  which  his 
qualification   rests,  and  who  clings  to  it  be- 
cause it  has  descended   to  him  from  his  an- 
cestor, or  because  he  has  acquired  it  by  the 
sweat  of  his  brow,  his  vigils  and  his  toils  ? 
I  hope  it  will  not  be  said  that  I  intend  by  my 
remarks  upon  this  law  to  disparage  the  resi- 
dents in  the  towns,  for  the  division  which  I 
have  the  honor  to  represent  embraces  part  of 
the  most  populous  city  in  Canada,  and  I  only 
accepted  the  charge  after  the  refusal  of  two 
of  its  most  eminent  citizens — eminent  equally 
by  their  large  fortunes  and  their  social  posi- 
tion.     But    probably   those   gentlemen   had 
learned  by  their  own  experience  or  by  that  of 
others,  that  public  life  did  not  present  suffi- 
cient charms  to  cause  it  to  be  eagerly  coveted. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.   Mr.    CURRIE— Before   recording 
my  vote  on  the  amendment  before  the  House, 
I  feel  it  my  duty  to  say  a  few  words  in  refer- 
ence to  that  amendment.     I  cannot  say  that  I 
altogether  concur  in  the  manner  in  which  it  is 
drawn,  but  at  the  same  time  I  feel  called  upon, 
as  an  elected  member,  to  support  it.     I  feel 
that  it  would  ill  become  me — that  1  would  be 
hardly  discharging  my  duty  to  my  constitu- 
ents— if  I  were  to  sit  silently  by  and  give  my 
vote  to  change  the  Constitution  under  which  I 
was  elected.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  feel  that  there 
is  something  extraordinary  in  the   fourteenth 
of  these  resolutions  before  the  House,  and  I 
would  like  to  hear   the  Government  give    a 
full  explanation  as  to  the  manner  in   which 
that  resolution  wa?  arrived  at  in  the  Conference. 
Bear  in   mind,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  the 
eleventh  resolution  declares  that  "  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Legislative  Council  shall  be  ap- 
pointed by  the  Crown  under  the  great  seal  of 
the  General  Government,  and  shall  hold  otlicc 
during  life."     Tlius  the  House  will  sec  that 
by  this  resolution  the  Crown  has  the  right  for 
all  future  time  to  select  the  legislative  coun- 
cillors in  Upper  Canada  i'nnn  any  part  ol'  the 
country  which  the  Crown  sees  lit ;    but    in 
Lower  Canada  there  is  this  difference  that,  ac- 
cording to  the  sixteenth  resolution,  "  each  of 
the  legislative  councillors  representing  Lower 
Canada  in  the  Legislative  (louneil  of  the  (Jen- 
eral  Lcgislature,sluill  bo  appointed  to  represent 


one  of  the  twenty-four  electoral  divisions  men- 
tioned in  schedule  A,  of  chapter  1st  of  the 
Consolidated  Statutes  of  Canada,    and   such 
councillor  shall  reside  or  possess  his  qualifica- 
tion in  the  division  he  is  appointed  to  repre- 
sent.'    Then   the  fourteenth   resolution    de- 
clares that  "  the  first  selection  of  the  members 
of  the   Legislative    Council  shall   be   made, 
except  as  regards  Prince  Edward  Island,  from 
the  legislative  councils  of   the   various   pro- 
vinces, so  far  as  a  sufficient  number  be  found 
qualified  and  willing  to  serve."     Now,  honor- 
able gentlemen,  I  have  always  understood — 
my  reading  of  books  on  constitutional  law  has 
given  me  to  understand — that  the  greatest  of 
England's  statesmen  who  have  spoken  on  the 
question  of  the  Royal  prerogative,  have  always 
broadly  laid  it  down  as  a  rule  that  the  prero- 
gative   should    never    and    could    never   be 
limited.     How  is  it  then   that  these  thirty- 
three  individuals,  talented,   able   and  gifted, 
as  no  doubt  they  were,  who  met  in  the  room 
behind  me  and  sat  with  closed  doors,  saw  fit 
to  hamper  and  cripple  the  operation  of  that 
good  rule  ?     (Hear,  hear.)     Should  the  pre- 
rogative of  the  Crown  in  the  selection  of  mem- 
bers  of  this  House  be  limited?     It  may  be 
true  that,  residing  in  many  of  the  divisions  in 
Lower    Canada    represented   in  this  House, 
there  may  be  good  men,  competent  men,  well 
qualified  men ;  but   it    is   equally   true  that 
there  may  be  just  as  good,  able   and  talented 
men,  outside  of  them   as  in  it.     Why,   then, 
should  the    doors   of  this    House   be   closed 
against  those  men  ?     Why  is  it,  I   would  like 
to  know,  that  the  prerogative  of  the  Crown  is 
to  be  restricted  so  as  to  prevent  the  choice  of 
these  men  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— I  can  give  ex- 
planations to  the  honorable  gentleman.  He 
must  be  aware  that  Ijower  Canada  is  in  a  dif- 
ferent position  iVom  Upper  Canada,  and  that 
there  arc  two  nationalities  in  it  occupying 
certain  portions  of  the  country.  W<.'ll,  these 
divisions  have  been  made  so  as  to  secure  to 
both  nationalities  their  respective  rights,  and 


these,  in  our  opinion,  are  good  reasons  for  the 
provision  that  lias  been  made. 

Hon.  Mix.  CURRIE— I  do  not  think  my 
honorable  and  gallant  friend  sees  the  point  of 
my  remarks.  I  would  a.sk  why  in  the  first 
selection  the  choice  of  the  Crown  is  restricted 
to  the  members  oi'  this  Chamber,  when  proba- 
bly others  out  of  it  could  Iti"  I'ound  who.se 
presence  hen'  would  be  of  nunv  :ulv:uitage  to 
the  public  ? 

Hon.  Sill  E.  r.  TACllK  I  do  not  know 
what  advantage  would  be  derived  if  the  Crown 


211 


had  tlie  right  of  making  selections  from  all 
over  the  country.  If  that  had  been  proposed, 
I  think  many  honorable  gentlemen  would  have 
found  fault  with  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  was 
due  to  courtesy  that  the  members  of  this 
House  should  not  be  overlooked,  and  not  only 
that,  but  there  were  acquired  rights  which 
had  to  be  respected.  My  honorable  friend 
appears  to  dissent  from  this  statement.  Well, 
the  last  choice  of  the  people  are  now  in  this 
House,  and  by  the  fact  of  their  election  they 
have  acquired  a  right  to  a  seat ;  and  I  think 
those  gentlemen  who  have  been  appointed  for 
life  have  gained  rights  which  should  not  be 
overlooked.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  honorable  and 
gallant  gentleman  says  Ave  have  an  acquired 
right.     I  admit  we  have  a  right  to  sit  here 
during   the   term   for   which  we  have   been 
elected  ;  but  what  right  have  we  to  seat  our- 
selves here  for  the  remainder  of  our  lives  ? 
The  people  did  not  send  us  here  to  make  this 
change   in   the   composition    of  this   House. 
(Hear,  hear.)     And  what  right  even  have  the 
appointed  members  of  this  House  to  seats  here 
during  their  lifetime?      I  have  a  despatch 
here,  written  by  the  late  Duke  of  Newcastle, 
who  will  be  considered  pretty  good  authority 
upon  the  point,  to  the  Lieutenant-Governor  of 
Prince  Edward  Island,  on  this  very  question. 
I  need  not  read  the  words  of  the  despatch, 
but  the  sense  of  it  is,    that  legislative  coun- 
cillors have  no  right  of  property  in  their  posi- 
tion,   but   simply   a  naked  trust   which   the 
Legislature  may  at  any  time  call  upon  them 
to  surrender  to  other  hands,  if,  in  their  opinion, 
the  public  interest  shall  require  such  transfer. 
Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— That  is  merely 
a  matter  of  opinion.     That   may  for  a  time 
have  been  the  view  of  the  Imperial  authorities, 
but  previous   to   1856   they  held   and   said 
directly  the  contrary.     (Hear,  hear.)     They 
then  said  that  they  had  granted  certain  priAd- 
leges  to  certain  gentlemen  for  life,  and  that 
they  would  not  commit  the  injustice  of  with- 
drawing those  privileges  when  the  gentlemen 
had   done   nothing  to  forfeit  them.     (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — I  am  surprised  at 
the  honorable  and  gallant  Premier  questioning 
the  ability  of  the  distinguished  gentleman 
who  wrote  the  despatch  to  which  1  have  just 
referred.  Whatever  may  have  been  the 
opinion  of  the  Colonial  Office  in  1856,  this  is 
a  later  opinion,  for  the  despatch  is  dated  the 
4th  of  February,  1862.  The  honorable  and 
gallant  gentleman  says  they  do  not  propose  to 
take  from  any  honorable  gentleman  the  rights 


he   now   enjoys.      I   could   understand    this 
argument  if  they  did  not  propose  to  take  away 
the  rights  of  any  honorable  member  of  this 
House  ;  but  I  cannot  understand  it  when  you 
propose   to  drive   from   this   House   faithful 
subjects  who  have  served  their  country  hon- 
estly  in   the    Legislature,  and  I   am  afraid 
we    have    not   yet    had    from    the    gallant 
Premier  that  explanation  to  which  the  House 
is  entitled.     (Hear,  hear.)     Why  is  it  that 
the    le2;islative    councillors  from   Prince  Ed- 
ward  Island  are  excepted  ?    In  that  province, 
as  we  know,  the  Legislative  Council  is  elec- 
tive, and  it  is  an  elected  Chamber  that  is  now 
in  existence  there,  but  the  members  of  it  are 
excepted  from   the  provisions  that    apply  to 
the  legislative  councils  of  the  other  provinces. 
Why  is  this?     I  think  there  must  be  some 
reason,  in  •  the  first   place,   for  breaking  the 
good  rule  that  in  no  way  shall  the  prerogative 
of  the  Crown  be  restricted ;  and,  in  the  second, 
for  making  an  exception  in  regard  to  one  that 
does  not  apply  to  the  others.     I  think  a  reason 
may  be  found  for  this  in  the  fact,  that  it  was 
doubted  whether  the  resolutions  in  a  different 
shape  would  have  passed  through  some  of  the 
chambers  that  compose  the  legislatures  of  the 
different  provinces.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  would 
like  to  know  what  justice  will  be  done  if  this 
change  is  carried  out  ?     What,  for  instance, 
will  be  done  with   regard  to  two  honorable 
members  who  come  from  the  city  of  Hamilton  ? 
One  of  them    (the  Hon.  Mr.  Mills)  is   an 
appointed  member ;  the  other  (the  Hon.  Mr. 
Bull)  was  the  almost  unanimous  choice  of 
the  people  only  a  few  months  since.     Under 
the  working  of  the  resolutions,  one  of  these 
honorable  gentlemen  will  forfeit  his  seat. 
Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Why  ?      (Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— If  it  does  not  follow 
that  one  of  these  honorable  gentlemen  will  lose 
his  seat,  it  must  follow  that  some  other  por- 
tion of  Upper  Canada  will  be  unrepresented 
in  this  House.     (Hear,  hear.)     Let  honorable 
gentlemen  take  either  horn  of  the  dilemma 
they  please.     It  may  be  quite  true  that  the 
gentlemen  who  have  been  sent  here  possess 
the  confidence  of  their  constituents,    but  it 
does  not  follow  that  they  will  be  retained 
in  their  seats.       It  is   plain   that   a    great 
injustice     will     be   done     these     honorable 
gentlemen,     some    of    whom    have     served 
their    country    faithfully,    without,    in    any 
way  trenching  upon  the  rights  of  the  Crown 
or  infringing  on  those  of  the  people;  and  I 
think  the  conclusion   this  House    and   the 
country,  as  well  as  the  other  branch  of  the 
Legislature,  will  arrive  at,  is  that  these  re- 


212 


solutions  were  devised  because  they  were 
better  calculated  in  this  shape  to  be  palatable, 
if  not  to  this  Chamber,  at  least  to  other 
houses  of  the  legislatures  of  British  North 
America.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— Like  other  hon. 
gentlemen  who  have  preceded  me,  I  am  over- 
come with  the  importance  of  this  subject; 
and  I  would  fail  in  my  duty  were  I  to  give 
a  silent  vote  on  the  very  grave  question  now 
before  the  House.      I  feel  that,  in  the  lan- 
guage of  my  hon.   friend  from  the  Eastern 
Division,  it  is  a  question  of  the  greatest  possi- 
ble importance ;  and  I  think  the  House  has 
great  reason  to  congratulate  itself  on  the  man- 
ner iu  which  the  discussion  of  it  has  been 
approached — in  the  way  in  which  it  has  been 
treated,  both  by  the  friends  of  the  resolutions 
and  by  those  who  have  opposed  them.   (Hear, 
hear.)     Difference  of  opinion  there  must  be 
on  all  great  public  questions.     (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  idle  to  expect  that  we  should  all  be 
agreed  on  this  any  more  than  on  any  other 
great  public  question  ;  and  after  all,  the  most 
correct  judgment,  which  can  be  formed  on 
any  occasion,  is  but  an  approximation  to  the 
truth.     (Hear,  hear.)     All  those  who  have 
preceded  us   in   the  work  of  constitution- 
making,  have  left,  on  the  structures  which 
they  have  erected,   the  impress  of  that  at- 
tribute which  prevades  humanity — imperfec- 
tion.    We  have  a  very  lamentable  instance 
of  this  in  the  case  of  our  neighbors  on  the 
southern  side  of  the  line.     As  was  well  said, 
by  a  prominent  member  of  the  Government 
in   another  place,  the  Con-stitution  of  the 
United  States  "was  one  of  the  most  wonder- 
ful works  of  the  human  intellect — one  of  the 
most  marvellous  efforts  of  skill  and  organiza- 
tion that  ever  governed  a  free  people.     But 
to  say  that  it  was  perfect  would  be  wrong." 
The  wonder  is  that  men  with  the  limited 
amount    of    experience   which   its   authors 
possessed,  should  have  framed  such  an  in- 
strument.     It  has  stood  many  rude  testa, 
and  but  for  the  existence  in  the  social  com- 
pact of  our  American  friends,  of  an  element 
in  direct  antagonism  to  the  whole  genius  of 
their  system — negro  slavery — the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States  would  have  con- 
tinued  to    withstand — yes,    and  after   the 
extinction  of  that  element,  will  continue  to 
withstand — all  the  artillery  which  tlicir  own 
or   foreign  despotism   can  array  against  it. 
Their   institutions  have  the  same  features 
with  our  own.      There  are  some  points  of 
variance;   but  the  same   great  i»rincii)lo   is 
the  basis  of  both — that  life,  liberty  and  the 


pursuit  of  happiness  are  the  unalienable 
rights  of  man,  and  that  to  secure  these  rights, 
governments  are  instituted  among  men, 
deriving  their  just  powers  from  the  consent 
of  the  governed.  This  is  the  secret  of  the 
strength  of  the  British  Constitution,  and 
without  a  free  and  full  recognition  of  it, no 
government  can  be  strong  or  permanent.  I 
am  free  to  admit  that  the  scheme  before  us 
has  some  defects,  which,  in  my  judgment, 
will  mar  its  well-working ;  but,  at  the  same 
time,  I  am  confident  that,  if  it  should  be- 
come law,  those  defects  can  and  will  be 
remedied.  The  gentlemen  composing  a  ma- 
jority of  the  Conference,  who  were  the 
authors  of  these  resolutions,  honestly  thought 
that  their  views  were  right,  but  the  time  will 
come  when  they  or  their  successors  will  see 
that  they  were  wrong,  and  the  errors  will  be 
rectified.  We  are  told  the  resolutions  must 
bo  cither  accepted  or  rejected.  Therefore, 
the  question  which  we  must  solve  is,  whether 
those  defects  are  so  serious  as  to  render  ii 
our  duty  to  reject  them,  or  are  the  advantages 
likely  to  result  from  their  adoption  more 
than  equivalent  to  the  drawbacks.  I  hold 
that  the  substitution  of  appointment  by  the 
Crown  for  the  elective  principle,  iu  this 
Chamber,  is  a  great  objection.  I  have 
always  been  an  advocate  of  the  elective  prin- 
ciple; still  I  shrink  from  the  responsibility 
of  voting  against  the  scheme  because  of 
that  objection.  (Hear,  hear.)  Wc  had 
reached  a  condition  almost  bordering  on 
anarchy ;  and  I  am  sure  from  the  conflict  of 
passions  that  prevailed — and  it  is  not  my 
design  to  blame  one  political  party  or  the 
other  for  it,  I  simply  state  a  i'act,  freely  con- 
ceded by  both  parties — that  a  state  of  things 
existed  for  which  a  remedy  of  some  kind  must 
be  found.  And  it  is  a  cheering  fact  that  in  the 
midst  of  this  state  of  things  we  h:ive  found 
men  patriotic  enough  to  merge  former  dif- 
ferences and  unite  together  for  the  purpose 
of  framing  a  Constitution  which  will  secure 
exemption  from  the  cvil.s  under  which  we 
have  labored.  And  although  it  may  entail 
— I  am  not  here  to  state  that  it  will  not  en- 
tail— additional  cost  upon  the  country,  yet 
that  is  not  a  valid  argument  against  the  adop- 
tion of  the  scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
Hou.se  and  the  country  have  to  take  this  into 
consideration,  whether,  if  it  be  rejected,  wo 
can  devise  a  plan  better  fitted  to  extricate  us 
from  our  present  difliculties,  and  which  will 
command  the  support  of  all  the  parties  to 
this  compact.  It  seems  to  beunneees.sary  to 
go  into  the  discussion  of  the  question  as  to 


213 


whether  union  of  the  British  North  Ameri- 
can Provinces  is  desirable.  Every  hon. 
gentleman  who  has  spoken,  has  given  his 
assent  to  that  proposition.  But  objections 
have  been  urged  against  the  resolutions  be- 
fore the  House,  and  some  of  those  objections 
have  assumed  a  tangible  shape.  They  have 
been  presented  in  the  amendments  moved 
by  my  honorable  friend  from  Wellington  and 
by  my  hon.  friend  from  Niagara.  5ly  vote 
shall  be  given  for  the  resolutions,  notwithstan- 
ding their  defects,  because  I  believe  that 
the  benefits  which  we  shall  derive  from  th-^ir 
adoption  will  far  outweigh  them.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  have  been  told  that  this  scheme 
is  new,  that  the  country  is  not  informed 
upon  the  subject,  and  that  the  people  do  not 
understand  it.  There  was  a  time  in  the  his- 
tory of  this  country — and  that  time  has  not 
very  long  gone  by — when  this  plan  of  govern- 
ment, or  at  any  rat'3  the  leading  principles 
embodied  in  it,  were  discussed  and  approved 
by  a  very  large  number  of  the  people.  In 
1859,  a  numerous  and  respectable  body  re- 
presenting Ihe  Reform  party  of  Upper 
Canada,  o-et  in  the  city  of  Toronto.  That 
convention  was  composed  of,  1  think,  560 
members,  who  substantially  adopted  it  as  the 
policy  of  the  party.  A  mong  other  resolu- 
tions which  the  convention  agreed  to  were 
two  which  I  shall  take  the  liberty  of  read- 
ing to  the  House.  The  4th  resolution  was 
to  the  following  effect : — 

That  without  entering  oa  the  discussion  of 
other  objections,  this  assembly  l'J  of  opinion  that 
the  delay  which  must  occur  in  obtaining  the  sanc- 
tion of  the  Lower  Provinces  to  a  Federal  union 
of  all  the  British  North  American  Colonies, 
places  that  measure  beyond  consideration  as  a 
remedy  for  present  evils. 

The  object  of  this  resolution  was  clearly 
not  to  ignore  the  larger  project  of  (Jon- 
federation  of  all  the  British  North  American 
Provinces,  and  I  think  I  shall  be  able  to 
convince  the  House,  from  what  fell  from 
myself  on  that  occasion,  that  it  was  not  so 
considered.  But  the  diflSculties  then  sur- 
rounding us  were  of  a  grave  character  and 
an  immediate  remedy  was  desired ;  and,  as 
the  resolution  expresses  it,  the  obstacle  in 
the  way  of  a  Federal  union  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, and  which  prevented  its  acceptance 
as  an  immediate  remedy,  was  the  delay 
which  would  necessarily  occur  in  obtaining 
the  consent  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  But 
the  5th  resolution  adopted  at  that  meeting 
embodied  in  it  some  of  the  maiq  features  of ' 


the  resolutions  of  the  Conference.     It  runs 

thus: — 

That  in  the  opinion  of  this  assembly  the  best 
practicable  remedy  for  the  evils  now  encountered 
in  the  Government  of  Canada  is  to  be  found  in 
the  formation  of  two  or  more  local  governments, 
to  which  shall  be  committed  the  control  of  all 
matters  ^  of  a  local  or  sectional  character,  and 
some  joint  authority,  charged  wita  such  matters 
as  are  necessarily  common  to  both  sections  of 
the  province. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Or,  in  other  words, 
there  was  a  hope  at  that  time  that  Con- 
federation would  be  accomplished.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— Yes  ;  and  I  was 
going  on  to  show  that  that  was  the  sense  in 
which  I  and  others  in  that  body  viewed  the 
resolution  at  the  time ;  and  my  hon.  friend 
from  the  Niagara  Division  was  a  member  of 
the  convention.  I  shall  quote  from  a  speech 
I  made  upon  that  occasion,  which  will  show 
at  all  events  the  sense  in  which  I  regarded 
the  resolution  I  have  just  read.  It  is  some- 
times an  advantage  in  advocating  measures 
to  have  no  embarrassing  antecedents.  This 
is  my  lot  on  this  occasion,  or  I  should,  per- 
haps, have  been  reminded  of  them  by  my 
hon.  friend  from  Niagara.  It  will  be  re- 
membered by  those  who  were  present  at  the 
meeting,  that  Mr.  Sheppard  moved  a  resolu- 
tion, in  amendment,  affirming  the  propriety 
of  dissolving  the  union  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada;  but  in  doing  so,  he  said,  that 
if  our  object  was  to  establish  a  large  nation- 
ality, he  would  withdraw  it,  and  support  the 
main  resolution.     In  reply  to  him  I  said : — 

Mr.  Sheppard  has  stated  that  if  he  could  see 
that  the  tendency  was  towards  the  acquisition  of 
a  national  existence,  then  he  was  with  us ;  he 
could  see  the  propriety  of  a  course  of  that  kind. 
Now  I,  for  one,  have  no  hesitation  in  saying  that 
such  is  its  tendency,  and  that  that  man  is  blind  to 
the  future  of  this  country,  nay,  more,  that  he  is  not 
a  true  patriot,  who  does  not  believe  that  some  day 
or  other  this  great  British  North  American  con- 
tinent will  have  a  nationality.  I  think  every 
man,  looking  at  the  history  of  the  past  and  judg- 
ing from  that  what  may  be  the  history  of  the 
future  of  this  country,  must  feel  that  one  day  or 
other — and  this,  perhaps,  at  no  very  distant 
period — we  shall  have  a  great  North  American 
nationality.  It  is  no  part  of  our  scheme  that 
there  shall  not  be  a  Federation  of  all  the  British 
North  American  Provinces.  We  admit  the  pos- 
sibility of  that  in  one  of  the  resolutions  already 
passed,  but  we  say  that  we  cannot  afford  to  wait 
for  it,  for  the  extravagance  of  our  present  system 
is  so  great  that  the  country  cannot  stand  it  much 
longer.     With  regard  to  dissolution  of  the  union, 


2U 


pure  and  simple,  we  say  you  can't  get  it — it  is  not 
advisable  that  you  should  have  it,  because  it  is  a 
stop  in  the  wrong  direction.  It  is  going  back. 
We  adopt  the  principle  of  Federation,  as  a  step 
in  the  right  direction,  which  will,  in  the  mean- 
time, relieve  us  from  the  pressing  difficulties  under 
which  the  country  labors,  and  which  also  looks  to 
the  future — to  a  Fedeiation  of  all  the  British 
North  American  Provinces  first,  and  beyond  that 
to  the  admission  of  other  territories  into  the  great 
North  American  Confederacy. 

Having  thus  shown  the  views  which  were 
entertained  at  that  time,  I  feel,  honorable 
gentlemen,  that  we  are  perfectly  consistent 
in  supporting  the  main  features  of  this 
scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  think  it  will  be 
in  the  recollection  of  honorable  gentlemen, 
that  while  this  meeting  in  Toronto  took  place 
on  the  9th  of  November,  1859,  there  was 
also  another  meeting  in  the  city  of  Montreal, 
on  the  25th  of  October  preceding,  the  pro- 
ceedings at  which  to  a  great  extent  influ- 
enced the  decision  of  that  convention.  The 
meeting  at  Montreal,  composed  of  Lower 
Canadian  Opposition  members  of  Parliament, 
gave  forth  to  the  world  a  very  important 
and  able  document — a  document  which  on 
its  face  was  partly  advisory  to  the  members 
of  the  Reform  party  of  Upper  Canada,  who 
were  about  to  meet  in  Toronto.  It  was 
signed  by  the  following  gentlemen  :  the 
Hon.  Messrs.  A.  A.  Dorion,  L.  T.  Drum- 
MOND,  L.  A.  Dessaules,  and  Thomas 
D'Arcy  McGee.  If  the  House  will  bear 
with  me,  I  will  quote  from  it  as  briefly  as 
possible,  because  it  is  impossible  for  me  to 
present,  in  any  language  of  my  own,  argu- 
ments 60  cogent,  and  so  satitfactory,  in  sup- 
port of  the  scheme  now  before  the  House. 
(Hear,  hear.)  After  setting  forth  the 
necessity  of  immediate  action  and  deprecating 
dissolution  of  the  union  pure  and  simple, 
these  gentlemen — who  formed  a  committee 
of  the  Liberal  party  of  Lower  Canada  to 
prepare  this  manifesto — say  : — 

Neither  can  we  comprehend  how  the  re-adjust- 
mcnt  of  representation  could  effectually  prevent 
the  recurrence  of  the  conflicts  and  collisions 
arising  out  of  the  distinct  character  of  our  two- 
fold j)opulation.  In  each  section  there  would 
still  Ijc  minority  and  majority  parties;  and  unless 
the  principle  of  a  double  majority  could  I)0  enact- 
ed as  a  fundamental  law,  wo  should  bo  exposed 
to  an  endless  round  of  tlio  same  complaints  that 
we  now  hear,  of  one  section  ruling  the  other 
contrary  to  its  well-known  public  opinion,  and  to 
see  reproduced  in  our  politics  the  same  passions, 
tlio  same  intri;,'u(;B,  Ino  same  corru|)tion  and 
insincerity.  The  enactment  of  tlio  double  ma- 
jority is  not  advocated  in  any  quarter. 


I  am  sorry  that  my  hon.  friend  from  the 
Grandville  Division  is  not  in  his  place,  for  I 
think  the  remedy  he  proposes  is  so  ably 
shown  in  this  document  to  be  insuflicient  to 
meet  the  exigencies  of  the  case,  that  even 
he  would  be  convinced  of  the  inadequacy 
of  the  views  he  has  just  now  announced. 
The  language  I  have  quoted  is  just  what  wc 
say  now,  that  representation  by  population 
per  sc  would  not  afford  suflicicnt  means  of 
extrication  from  our  difficulties,  and  would 
not  give  us  the  hope  which  the  new  consti- 
tutional system,  of  which  it  forms  a  main 
feature,  docs  afford,  that  we  will  be  rid  of 
the  evils  which  have  distracted  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Upper  Canada,  were  that 
principle  engrafted  into  our  legislative  union, 
would  undoubtedly  have  greater  power  and 
weight,  but  as  the  manifesto  justly  says  : — 

We  should  be  exposed  to  an  endless  round  of 
the  same  complaints  that  we  now  hear,  of  one 
section  ruling  the  other,  contrary  to  its  well 
known  public  opinion. 

We  should  still  have  Upper  Canada  versus 
Lower  Canada  ;  because  local  difficulties, 
arising  out  of  real  or  supposed  interference 
with  the  custom?,  laws,  religious  institutions, 
or  sectional  questions  of  any  kind,  would 
provoke  and  perpetuate  the  same  bitter  and 
hostile  feelings  which  have  so  long  annoyed 
and  vexed  the  people  of  both  sections  of  the 
province.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Federative 
system  is  the  only  cure  for  this  great  evil. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  manifesto  of  the  com- 
mittee proceeds  to  say  : — 

Your  committee  are  impressed  with  the  con- 
viction that  whether  we  con.sider  the  present  needs 
or  the  probable  future  condition  of  the  country — 
the  true,  the  statesmanlike  solution  is  to  be  sought 
in  the  substitution  of  a  purely  Federative  for  the 
present  so-called  Legislative  union.  The  former, 
it  is  believed,  would  enable  U3  to  escape  all  the 
evils,  and  so  retain  all  the  advantages  appertain- 
ing to  the  existing  union,  while  by  restricting  the 
functions  of  the  Federal  Govorninent  to  the  few 
easily-defined  subjects  of  common  or  national 
concern,  and  leaving  supremo  jurisdiction  in  all 
other  matters  to  the  several  provinces,  the  people 
of  each  subilivi.sion  would  pos.'^ess  every  guaran- 
tee for  the  integrity  of  their  respective  institutions 
which  an  absolute  dissolution  of  the  union  would 
confer. 

It  is  impo.ssiblc  to  state  in  stronger  or 
more  appropriate  terms  than  these  the  ad- 
vantages set  forth  in  the  leading  features  of 
this  scheme — they  arc  in  exact  accordance 
with  the  priuciplcH  hero  so  luminously  and 
powerfully  stated.     One  would  ^*upposo  that 


215 


the  hon.  and  gallant  Knight,  or  the  hon,  the 
Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands,  had  written 
the  paragraph ;  even  they  could  not  offer  a 
better  defence.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  I  wish 
to  call  to  the  next  paragraph  of  this  mani- 
festo the  attention  of  my  hon.  friend  (Hon. 
Mr.  AiKiNS),  who  thinks  that  these  resolu- 
tions have  not  been  long  enough  before  the 
public  to  enable  them  to  form  a  correct 
judgment  upon  them.  I  trust  the  House 
will  bear  with  me  while  quoting  from  this 
State  paper  ;  but  really  I  feel  that  the  argu- 
ments which  it  urges  are  so  good  that  they 
are  the  best  defence  of  the  resolutions  that 
can  be  offered  : — 

The  proposition  to  Federalize  the  Canadian 
union  is  not  new.  On  the  contrary,  it  has  been 
frequently  mooted  in  Parliament  and  in  the  press 
during  the  last  few  years.  It  was,  no  doubt, 
suggested  by  the  example  of  the  neighboring 
States,  where  the  admirable  adaptation  of  the 
Federal  system  to  the  government  of  an  exten- 
sive territory,  inhabited  by  people  of  divers 
origins,  creeds,  laws  and  customs,  has  been  amply 
demonstrated ;  but  shape  and  consistence  were 
first  imparted  to  it  in  1856,  when  it  was  formally 
submitted  to  Parliament  by  the  Lower  Canada 
Opposition,  as  offering,  in  their  judgment,  the 
true  corrective  of  the  abuses  generated  under  the 
present  system 

Thus  it  appears  that  the  gallant  Knight 
and  his  confreres  of  the  Conference  have  not 
the  credit  of  originating  this  scheme — the 
honor  belongs  to  the  Liberal  parly  of  Lower 
Canada ;  and  it  is  somewhat  surprising  that 
these  gentlemen,  who  not  only  adopted  it 
themselves  but  recommended  it  to  Upper 
Canada,  are  the  only  parties  who  now  oppose 
it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  mark  the  signific- 
ance of  the  paragraph  which  follows  : — 

The  discussion  now  going  on  in  Upper  Canada 
justifies  the  hope  that  the  Liberal  party  of  that 
section  of  the  province  will  at  the  approaching 
convention  pronounce  in  favor  of  Federation. 
It,  therefore,  now  becomes  imperative  upon  the 
Liberals  of  Lower  Canada  to  determine  whether 
they  will  sustain  the  views  enunciated  in  Parlia- 
ment in  1856,  and  urged  upon  every  subsequent 
occasion  when  constitutional  changes  were  dis- 
cussed. 

Hon.  Ma.  CURRIS— Hear,  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— The  hon.  gentle- 
man says  "  hear,  hear,"  but  what  was  re- 
commended iu  this  paragraph  has  been 
done.  Our  friends  called  on  the  Liberal 
party  in  Upper  Canada  to  adopt  their  scheme 
at  the  convention  of  1859.  It  was  then 
adopted.  It  has  now  been  adopted  by  both 
parties  in  Upper  Canada ;  nay  more,  it  has 


been  adopted  by  the  Conservative  party  in 
Lower  Canada,  and  shall  the  country  now 
be  told  that  the  only  party  who  oppose  it, 
are  the  Liberal  party  of  Lower  Canada,  who 
claim  the  credit  of  being  its  authors.  The 
arguments  are  so  cogent  that  I  must  continue 
to  quote  them  : — 

If  Lower  Canada  insists  on  maintaining  the 
union  intact, — if  she  will  neither  consent  to  a 
dissolution  of  the  union,  nor  consider  the  project 
of  a  Federation,  it  is  difficult  to  conceive  on 
what  reasonable  grounds  the  demand  for  repre- 
sentation according  to  population  can  be  resisted. 
The  plea  for  such  a  resistance  has  hitherto  been, 
that  danger  might  arise  to  some  of  her  peculiar  and 
most  cherished  institutions  ;  but  that  ground  will 
be  no  longer  tenable  if  she  rejects  a  proposition 
the  effect  of  which  would  be  to  leave  to  her  own 
people  the  sole  and  absolute  custody  of  those 
institutions,  and  to  surround  them  by  the  most 
stringent  of  all  possible  safeguards,  the  funda- 
mental law  of  the  land,  unalterable  save  by  the 
action  of  the  people  affected  by  them. 

Could  there  be  anything  stronger  or  more 
to  the  point  than  this.  He  will  not  admit 
it,  but  no  doubt  this  document  has  contri- 
buted largely  to  the  conversion  of  my 
venerable  and  gallant  friend  at  the  head  of 
the  Government,  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
I  have  such  faith  in  the  efl&cacy  of  it,  that 
in  the  hope  of  making  more  converts  I  will 
go  on  with  it : — 

Your  committee  will  not  be  expected,  it  is 
presumed,  to  do  more  than  indicate  the  conclu- 
sions at  which  they  have  arrived  with  respect  to 
the  more  prominent  features  of  the  proposed 
system  of  Federation.  They  are  clearly  of 
opinion  that  whatever  be  the  number  of  the  prov- 
inces into  which  it  may  ultimately  be  thought 
advisable  to  divide  the  Province  of  Canada,  the 
old  division  line  between  Upper  and  Lower  Ca- 
nada must  be  preserved.  In  the  distribution  of 
powers  between  the  Local,  or  State,  and  the 
Federal  Government,  the  controlling  and  pervad- 
ing idea  should  be  to  delegate  to  the  Federal 
Governreent  such  authority  only  as  would  be 
essential  to  the  objects  of  the  Federation ;  and 
by  necessary  consequence  to  reserve  to  the  sub- 
divisions, powers  as  ample  and  varied  as  possible. 
The  customs,  the  post-office,  the  laws  concerning 
patents  and  copyrights,  the  currency,  and  such 
of  the  public  works  as  are  of  general  interest  to 
the  whole  province,  would  form  the  chief,  if  not 
the  only  subjects  with  which  the  General  Govern- 
ment should  be  charged  ;  while  everything  relat- 
ing to  purely  local  improvements,  to  education, 
to  the  administration  of  justice,  to  the  militia,  to 
laws  relating  to  property,  and  generally  all 
questions  of  local  concern  ;  in  fine,  on  all  matters 
not  specifically  devolving  on  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment, would  be  lodged  in  the  governments  of 
the  separate  provinces.     *     *     *    In  conclusion, 


216 


your  committee  strenuously  recommend  to  the 
Liberal  party  cf  Lower  Canada  the  propriety  of 
seeking  for  a  solution  of  the  present  difficulties  in 
a  plan  of  Confederation,  the  details  of  which 
should  be  so  matured  as  to  meet  the  approbation 
of  a  majority  of  the  people  of  this  province, 
and,  in  order  to  further  this,  and  to  promote  the 
most  ample  discussion  of  the  subject  as  well  in 
Parliament  as  throughout  the  country. 

It  may  be  said  in   reply,  that  this  document 
refers  only  to  the  Federation  of  the  Canadas. 
The  scheme  before  the  House  provides  for 
that  most  fully  j  but  if  the  principle  be  good 
as  regards  Canada,  it  will  be  equally  bene- 
ficial  as   regards   the   other   British  North 
American    Colonies.      (Hear,  hear.)      The 
hon.  member  from  Wellington,  in  the  very 
able  speech  which  he  delivered  the  other  day, 
and  to  which  all  who  heard  him  must  have 
listened   with   very  great  pleasure,  enunci- 
ated  his   views  iu    Lis    usual  forcible  and 
lucid  style ;  and  whether  there  is  a  coinci- 
dence of  opinion  with  him  or  not,  one  cannot 
but  respect  the  intelligence,  moderation  and 
candor  with  which  ho  expresses  his  views. 
(Hear,  hear.)    I  trust  that  in  giving  my  opin- 
ion upon  some  points  of  his  remarks  I  shall 
be  guilty  of  no  want  of  courtesy  although 
differing   from    him.     (Hear.)     The    hon. 
gentleman,  at  the  outset  of  his  remarks,  said 
that  this  Constitution,  in  order  to  be  strong, 
"  must  be  planted   deep   in  the  hearts  and 
aflections  of  the  people,"  and  that  <•'  there 
■would  be  no  good   hope  of  its  permanency 
without  this."     So  true  and  correct  is  this 
position,  that  if  I  did  not  believe,  honestly 
believe,  that  the  Constitution  which  \ie  are 
now  discussing  commanded  the  approbation  of 
a  large  majority  ot  the  people — I  am  speak- 
ing now  more  particularly  of  the  section  of 
the  province   to  which  I  belong — I  would 
be  one  of  those  to  advocate  our  delaying  its 
passage  until  we  a.scertained  beyond  all  doubt 
what  the  feelings  of  the  people  arc ;  but  I 
think    there    is    no   reasonable    ground   to 
doubt  what  their  views  arc.     (Hear,  hear.) 
They  were   shewn,   in   the   first   place,   as 
pointed  out  by  my  honorable  friend  the  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands,  in  the  fact  that 
nearly  all  the  elections  of  meiubcrs  of  this 
and  the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature  that 
have  taken  place  since  the  formation  of  the 
G.^verument,    have    resulted     in    its  favor 
That,  I  think,  is  very  strong  testimony  of  the 
popular  approbation.      (Hear,  hear.)     Tlien 
we  have   no  petitions  against  it.      (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CUlUllli)— And  none  for  it. 


Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— "Xone  for  it,"  the 
hon.    gentleman    says.     Why,  the   country 
has  demanded  the  scheme  for  years.    (Hear, 
hear.)     What    have  I  been   proving  to  the 
House  but  that  the  very  party  of  which  the 
hon.  gentleman  is  a  member  resolved  upon 
this  in  1859.     I  do  not  think  the  feelings  of 
that  convention  in  its  favor  could  have  been 
more   distinctly   expressed.     I  certainly  so 
understood  it,  and   a  large  majority  of  the 
560   gentlemen   present   so   understood    it. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  has  been  before  the  country 
in   Lower   Canada  since    1850,    when   our 
friends  from  Lower  Canada  formally  brought 
it  before  Parliament.     Are  there  any  peti- 
tions from  Lower  Canada    now  against  it  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)     Are  there  any  from  Upper 
Canada  ?     Has    there  been  a  single   puL^ic 
meeting  iu  either  section  against  it  ?    (Hear, 
hear.)     In  Lower  Canada,  an  hon.  member 
says,  there  have  been  two  or  three.     It  has 
been  said — I  do  not  declare  it,  but  make  the 
statement  on  public  rumor — that  they  were 
failures,  small  demonstrations  of  oppoiition. 
But  in  Upper  Canada  we  have  had  no  de- 
monstration whatever  against  it.     An  indi- 
rect  attempt  was    made  the  other   day    at 
Toronto  by  an  effort  1o  condemn  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway  in  connection   with  Confe- 
deration, but  it  was  a  manifest  failure.  (Hear, 
hear.)     I  think,  then,  that  we  are  justified 
in    assuming — and,   indeed,    arc    bound   ti> 
assume — that  the  people  do  not  object  to  it, 
and  that  they  fully  understand  its  character  ; 
for  in  spitcof  what  may  be  said  to  the  contrary, 
it  has  gone  through  the  length  and  breadth 
of  the  land,  having  been  widely  circulated 
by  every  newspaper  in   the    country;    and 
it    is    a     flimsy    argument    for    honorabK' 
gentlemen    to  use,    that   because  the   reso- 
lutions   addressed    to   them    were    marked 
"  Private,"  they  could  not  be  eommuuieated 
to   the  public.     (Hoar,  hear.)     They  liavc 
been  spread  all  over  the  country  ;  but  we  are 
told  the  entire  press  has  been  subsidized  by 
the  Government.     To  say  that  the  press  wa.s 
influenced  in  any  manner  by  the  circular  to 
which  allusion  has  boon  made,  is  absolutelv 
ridiculous.     (Hoar,  hoar  )     There  are  a  few 
newspapers  in  either  section  of  the  province 
certainly  there  are  few  in  Upper  Canaila  — 


that   have  spoken 
niue-tonths  of  them 


against 


the  scheme ;  but 
in  both  sections  arc  in 
favor  of  it,  and  have  discussed  it  in  all  its 
bearings — yet  wo  are  told  that  the  public 
has  not  been  sufliciently  informed  upon  it, 
that  in  fact  there  i.s  no  public  opinion  in 


217 


respect  to  it,  and   that  hence  there  are  no 
petitions    or   demonstrations   against  it.     I 
think  this  is  a  mode  of  reasoning  which  my 
hon.  friend  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie)  ought  not 
to  adopt — it  is  an  argument  unworthy  of  his 
intelligence.    (Hear,  hear.)    My  hon.  friend 
from  Wellington  the  other  day  attacked  the 
character  of  the  Conference,  and  the  attack 
has  been  rep3ated  since,  by  styling  it  a  "  self- 
elected   body."     This  designation  was   not 
correct.     So   far  as    Canada   is   concerned, 
we  were  represented  by  the  Canadian  Gov- 
ernment, formed  for  the  express  purpose  of 
carrying  into  effect  a  plan  of  Federal  union 
— uoion  of  the  Canadas  at  all  events,  and  if 
possible  of  all  the  British  North  American 
Provinces.     It  will  not  be  denied  that  the 
(xovernment  possesses  the  confidence  of  large 
majorities  in  both  Houses  of  Parliament, 
and  of  the  people  of  the  province.     (Hear, 
hear.)    The  representatives  of  Canada,  there- 
fore, could  hardly  be    called  a  self-elected 
body,  that  is  in  the  sense  in  which  my  hon. 
friend  has   applied  the  term,  namely,  that 
they  represented     nobody  but    themselves. 
To  maintain  this  is  indeed  to  go  a   great 
length,  for  it  is  practically  to  ignore  both 
Houses  of  Parliament,  and  the  very  prin- 
ciple of  representation.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then, 
as  regards  the  representatives  of  the  other 
provinces,  they  were  appointed  by  the  sanc- 
tion of  the  Crown,  on  the  invitation  of  the 
Governor  General,  and  were  selected  from 
various  political  parties,  to  consider  a  ques- 
tion of  the  utmost'  interest  to  every  subject 
of  the  Sovereign,  of  whatever  race  or  faith, 
resident  in  these  provinces;  and  they  have 
arrived  at  a  conclusion  destined  to  exercise  a 
most  important  influence  upon   the  future 
condition   and   welfare  of   the   whole  com- 
munity.    My  honorable    friend   from   Port 
Hope  (Hon.  Mr.  Seymour)  referred  to-day 
to   the   American    mode   of   revising  their 
constitutions.       The    honorable  gentleman 
very  correctly  stated   the  manner  in   which 
the   Federal    Constitution    may    be  amend- 
ed,  but   he    is  in    error    as    to    the   mode 
in  which  state  constitutions  may  be  revised. 
One  of  the  most  important  cf  the  States  re- 
vised its  Constitution  in  1846.      I  refer  to 
the  State  of  New  York.  The  ojiodus  operandi 
on  that  occasion  was  as  follows  : — An  act  was 
passed  in  the  State   Legislature  authorizing 
the  electors  at  large  to  choose  delegates  to  a 
convention,   for  the  express  purpose  of  re- 
vising the  Constitution.      The   instrument 
passed  ^^y  ^^9  convention  was  then  submit- 
29 


ted  to  the  Legislature  for  approval ;  but  the 
Legislature  had  no  power  to  alter  it.  It  had 
either  to  be  rejected  or  accepted  as  a  whole. 
It  was  so  accepted,  none  of  the  details  being 
altered.  My  hon.  friend  will  see  that  while 
the  Conference  was  composed  of  leading  re- 
presentatives of  the  people  in  the  various 
provinces,  those  conventions  arc  composed 
of  gentlemen  elected  by  the  people  for  that 
special  purpose;  and  that  the  only  difference 
between  them  is  in  the  mode  of  selection. 
However,  in  both  cases,  all  political  parties 
are  represented.  My  hon.  friend  from  the 
Home  Division  (Hon.  Mr.  Aikins)  in  speak- 
ing of  this  Conference  the  other  day,  said 
he  would  have  preferred  if  it  had  been  a 
party  matter,  and  he  took  the  ground  that  if 
it  had,  it  would  have  been  better  for  the 
country. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS — I  beg  the  honorable 
gentleman's  pardon.  What  I  said  was,  that 
I  regretted  very  much  that  the  measure  had 
not  been  taken  up  and  discussed  as  a  party 
measure;  for  although  I  was  of  opinion  that 
it  could  not  be  carried  as  a  party  measure,  if 
it  had  been  so  taken  up  it  would  have  been 
more  thoroughly  scrutinized  and  discussed 
before  the  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  C  HRISTIE— I  think  the  ex- 
planation of  my  hon.  friend  quite  bears  out 
what  I  stated,  that  he  thought  it  should  be 
made  a  party  measure. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  thought  the  coun- 
.  try  would  be  the  gainer  if  it  were. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— In  what  way? 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— By  the  fuller  dis- 
cussion we  would  have. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— Where  can  the 
hon.  gentleman  find  an  instance  of  the  re- 
vision or  change  of  a  constitution  being  made 
a  party  measure  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— The  hon.  gentleman 
can  find  it  on  reference  to  the  action  of  the 
Toronto  convention  and  the  Lower  Canadian 
Liberal  party,  to  which  he  has  just  alluded. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— The  hon.  gentle- 
man, I  see,  has  not  changed  the  ground 
which  he  took  the  other  day,  and  which  is 
precisely  as  I  stated  it.  He  thinks  it  would 
have  been  to  the  public  advantage  if  this 
question  had  been  taken  up  and  discussed 
by  a  party.  In  this,  in  my  judgment,  he  is 
entirely  wrong ;  and  I  say  he  can  find  no  in- 
stance of  a  constitution  having  been  revised 
by  a  party. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Well,  I  submit  an 
instance — the   amendment    to    the    United 


218 


States  Constitution,  prohibiting  slavery, 
which  \Tas  passed  last  month,  and  which  was 
proposed  by  a  party. 

Hon.   Mr.  CHRISTIE— A   number    of 
the  representatives  in  the  Federal  Congress 
who  voted  for  it  were  democrats,  and  with- 
out their  concurren;e  and  support  it  could 
not  have  been  carried.      Besides,  that  was 
only  an  amendment,  not  a  revision  of  the 
Constitution.  The  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  was  not  the  work  of  a  party.     The 
revision  of  the  Constitution  of  the  State  of 
New  York,  in  1846,  was  not  the  work  of  _a 
party.     It  is  not  desirable  that  any  Consti- 
tution should  be  the  work  of  a  party ;  in 
so  important  an  undertaking  all  party  spirit 
should  be  laid  aside.    (Hear,  hear.)    Why  ? 
Because  men  of  all  parties  are  alike  interested 
ill   the    formation   of    a    Constitution,   and 
because  in  the  construction  of  such  an  in- 
strument, the  collective  wisdom  of  the  lead- 
ing men  ot  all  parties  is  needed.     Besides, 
a  Constitution  so  framed  will  be  more  likely, 
as  my  hon.  friend  from  Wellington  has  so 
well  said,  to  live  in  the  hearts  and  affections 
of  the  people.     (Hear,  hear.)     To  shew  the 
good  sensj  of  our  neighbors  on  this  point, 
they  do  not  give  the  revision  of  a  Constitu- 
tion— and  the  work  of  the  Conference  was 
a  revision  of  our  Constitution — to  any  party, 
but  to  men  specially  chosen  for  the  purpose, 
irom  all  parties ;  and  I  think  the  Governor 
General,   and   the  Lieutenant-Governors  of 
the    Lower   Provinces   acted    most    wisely 
when   they  selected  men   of  all   shades   of 
political  opinion  to  compose  this  Conference 
and  to  prepare  this  Constitution,  because  all 
party  views  and  feelings  being    laid  aside, 
the  whole  object  and  motive  of  the  members 
of  the  body  was  to  devise  a  scheme  which 
would  best  tend  to  promote  the  good  of  their 
common  country.     (Hear,  hear.)     The  hon. 
member  from  Wellington    has  suggested  a 
very   important   objection    to   the  scheme; 
and  I  am  free  to  admit  that,  if  the  position 
he  took  were  a  correct  one,  then  it  would  not 
be  my  duty,  or  that  of  any  elected  member 
of  this   House,  to  assent   to   the    measure. 
In  order   that  I  may  not  misrepresent  the 
position   taken   by  the  hon.  gentleman,  let 
me  quote  his  language,  as  reported  in  the 
newspapers.     Ho  held  : — 

That  the  elective  memljcrs  had  rccuived  a 
sacred  trust  to  exercise ;  that  they  were  sent  her* 
by  their  cuiistituencies  to  rL-prustnt  them,  and  to 
do  that  only.  Under  tlieso  circiimatances, 
how  could  they  conceive  they  had  the  power 
to  vote  away  the  rights  of  their  electors?     That 


was    not  their   mandai,  and  if  they  did,  they 
would  be  doing  that  which  they  had  no  authority 
to  do  ;  they  would  be  doing  that  which  they  could 
not  do  without  going  beyond  the  authority  con 
fided  to  them. 

Now,  it  must  be  frankly  admitted  that  if 
the  hon.  gentleman's  position  be  correct, 
then  his  objection  would  be  fatal  to  any 
elected  member  giving  his  concurrence  to 
the  scheme  of  the  Conference.  But,  hon. 
gentlemen,  let  us  enquire  what  is  the  posi- 
tion of  a  representative.  Two  elements 
enter  into  the  idea  of  rcprescEtation — 
namely,  power  and  duty.  A  representative 
derives  the  former  from  his  constituents 
acting  by  their  majority,  under  the  Consti- 
tution. From  what  source  does  he  derive 
the  latter  ?  Obviously  not  from  his  constitu- 
ents, because  even  the  majority  are  not 
agreed  on  all  points  connected  with  the  dis- 
charge ot  his  duty.  My  hon.  friend  (Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn)  has  spoken  of  the  position  of 
a  representative,  as  being  that  of  a  trustee. 
I  shall  quote  from  a  very  able  work  ou  the 
British  Commonwealth,  in  which  that  posi- 
tion is,  to  my  mind,  very  fully  and  very  satis- 
factorily proved  to  be  incorrect.   Cox  says : — 

Any  trust,  to  be  obligatory  in  conscience, 
must  be  defined  by  the  self-same  persons  who 
appoint  the  trustee,  or  the  person  who  is  to 
fulfil  the  trust.  His  powers  and  duties  must 
be  derived  from  identically  the  i-ame  authority, 
for  it  obviously  would  be  contrary  to  morals,  as 
it  is  to  law,  that  a  man  would  be  bound  in  con- 
science to  exercise,  in  a  particular  way,  powere 
delegated  to  him  hy  several  others,  when  they 
themselves,  while  delegating  those  powers,  difl'or 
as  to  the  mode  in  which  they  are  to  be  exercised. 
For,  which  of  the  different  ways  is  the  trustee  to 
choo.se?  By  whom  of  those  who  appoint  him 
is  hp  to  be  guided  in  preference  to  the  rest  ?  At 
the  most  he  is  bound  to  exorcise  his  trust  in  a 
particular  way  in  those  particulars  only  respect- 
ing which  the  trust  makers  are  agreed.  Let  us 
now  apply  this  abstract  principle  of  equity  to  the 
relations  between  a  reprrsontative  and  his  con- 
stituents. Regard  him  as  their  trustee.  With 
respect  to  the  source  of  his  power  there  is  no 
ambiguity ;  it  is  derived  from  his  constituents 
acting  by  their  majority.  Hut  from  whom  does 
he  derive  the  duty  of  expressing  this  or  that 
opinion  in  Parliament?  In  what  particular  arc 
the  trust-makers  agreed?  The  Tory  majority 
who  voted  for  him  are  rarely,  perhajis  never,  all 
agreed  on  any  one  point  on  which  their  opinions 
liavo  been  eoinparod  with  his.  Some  of  them 
diller  from  him  on  some  points,  some  on  others, 
but  they  all  voted  for  him.  from  personal  con- 
sideration, or  because  of  tlieir  agreement  with 
him  on  those  points  whieh  they  respectively 
deemed  most  important,  in  the  minority,  also, 
are  probably  some  olcctoru  who  assent  to  some, 


219 


and  dissent  from  others,  of  his  opinions.  The 
essential  conditions  of  a  valid  trust  to  express 
particular  opinions  in  Parliament  are  then  want- 
ing. The  persons  nominating  him  to  his  ofiBce, 
do  not  concur  as  to  the  opinions  which  he  is  to 
express.  How  then  can  a  trust  exist  which  it  is 
impossible  to  define.  Tiie  real  trust  imposed  on 
the  representative  is  co-extensive  with  those 
obligations,  which  alone  the  trust-makers  can 
generally  confer  on  him, — namely,  to  exercise  his 
representative  power  honestly  and  discreetly. 
This  argument,  of  course,  assumes  that  the  can- 
didate has  not  defined  his  parliamentary  obliga- 
tions by  unconditional  pledges. 

The  only  other  possible  limitation  might 
exist  in  the  Constitution.  I  shall  look  then 
at  the  instrument  from  which  we  derive  our 
powers  as  legislative  councillors,  and  shall 
quote  from  the  Imperial  Act  of  1854,  in- 
tituled "  An  Act  to  empower  the  Legislature 
of  Canada  to  alter  the  Constitution  of  the 
Legislative  Couacil,  and  for  other  purposes," 
The  first  section  is  as  follows ; — 

It  shall  be  lawful  for  the  Legislature  of  Canada, 
by  any  act  or  acts  to  be  for  that  purpose  passed, 
to  alter  the  manner  of  composing  the  Legislative 
Council  of  the  said  province,  and  to  make  it  con- 
sist of  such  number  of  members,  appointed  or  to 
be  appointed  or  elected  by  such  persons,  and  in 
such  manner  as  to  the  said  Legislature  may  seem 
fit,  and  to  fix  the  qualifications  of  the  persons 
capable  of  being  so  appointed  or  elected,  and  by 
such  act  or  acts  to  make  provision,  if  they  shall 
think  fit,  for  the  separate  dissolution  by  the  Go- 
vernor of  the  said  Legislative  Council  and  Legis- 
lative Assembly  respectively,  and  for  the  purposes 
aforesaid,  to  vary  and  repeal  in  such  manner  as  to 
them  shall  seem  fit,  all  or  any  of  the  sections 
and  provisions  of  the  said  recited  act,  and  of  any 
other  Act  of  Parliament  now  in  force  which  re- 
lates to  the  Constitution  of  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil of  Canada. 

Then,  in  the  3rd  section  it  is  provided — 

That  it  shall  be  lawful  for  the  Legislature  of 
Canada,  from  time  to  time,  to  vary  and  repeal  all 
or  any  of  the  provisions  of  the  act  or  acts  alter- 
ing the  Constitution  of  the  said  Legislative 
Council. 

These  are  the  powers  given  us  by  our 
Constitution.  (Hear,  hear.)  They  are  of 
the  most  ample  character.  We  were  elected, 
pursuant  to  an  act  passed  in  consequence  of 
the  exercise  of  these  powers.  And,  coming 
from  the  people,  the  members  of  this  House 
were  put  in  possession  of  these  powers  the 
moment  they  were  elected.  None  of  them 
at  their  elections  pledged  themselves  not  to 
exercise  the  powers  granted  by  the  Constitu- 
tion. They  were  not  asked  by  their  consti- 
tuents to  do  so.  How  then,  by  voting  for 
this  or  any  other  measure  altering  the  con- 


stitution of  the  Legislative  Council,  can  they 
be  said  to  betray  the  trust  reposed  in  them 
by  their  constituents  ?  My  hon.  friend  from 
Wellington  admits  that  under  the  Constitu- 
tion we  have  the  power  to  alter  the  consti- 
tution of  this  House  iu  so  far  as  it  relates  to 
Canada,  but  he  says  we  are  not  authorized 
to  extend  our  action  to  the  other  provinces, 
in  a  scheme  of  Federal  union.  That  is 
begging  the  question.  I  answer  his  objec- 
tion that  any  change  afi'ecting  the  elective 
principle  is  a  breach  of  trust.  Besides, 
we  do  not  propose  to  enact  a  system 
of  Government  embracing  all  British  North 
America.  We  have  not  the  power  to  do  so. 
We  merely  propose  to  address  Her  Majesty 
on  the  subject.  The  Imperial  Parliament 
alone  has  that  power  ;  but  if  we  have  power 
without  a  breach  of  trust  to  alter  the  consti- 
tution of  the  Legislative  Council  of  Canada 
(and  my  hon.  friend  admits  this),  then, 
certainly,  we  cannot  be  guilty  of  a  breach  of 
trust  in  suggesting  a  change  embraced  in  a 
Constitution  for  the  various  provinces.  I 
will  not  yield  to  my  hon.  friends  from  Wel- 
lington and  Niagara,  in  attachment  to  the 
elective  principle,  as  applied  to  this  House. 
I  have  always  been  an  advocate  for  it,  and  I 
am  so  still,  but  we  cannot  get  it  inserted  in 
this  instrument;  and  much  as  I  deplore  its 
absence  from  our  proposed  Constitution,  I  am 
not  on  that  account  prepared  to  reject  the 
resolutions.  This  scheme,  like  all  other 
constitutional  compacts,  is  a  compromise 
between  the  conflicting  opinions  of  its 
framers  j  and  on  the  whole,  it  is  a  fair 
compromise.  This  feature  is  not  peculiar  to 
our  plan  of  Confederation.  My  hon.  friend 
will  find  in  the  Federalist,  and  from  the 
correspondence  of  the  able  men  who  framed 
the  "  Articles  of  Confederation,"  that  com- 
promise and  concessions  of  opinion  were 
submitted  to.  But  out  of  them  all  grew 
the  wonderful  fabric  of  the  American  Con- 
stitution. In  the  resolution  which  my  hon. 
friend  proposes,  there  is,  according  to  his 
own  admission,  compromise.  He  admits 
that  he  cannot  in  its  integrity  procure  the 
application  of  the  elective  principle  tj  the 
Legislative  Council.  He  even  proposes  to 
add  to  the  opposite  principle  ;  why,  then, 
does  my  hon.  friend  object  to  similar  conces- 
sions on  our  part,  when  we  believe  that  the 
probable  advantages  of  the  whole  scheme  far 
outweigh  its  defects  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  As 
regards  limitation  in  the  general  powers  of 
Parliament  contended  for  by  my  hon.  friend, 
I  hold  that  it  is  not  to  be  found  in  the 


220 


unwritten  Constitution,  made  up  of  historical 
and  parliamentary  precedents,  any  more  than 
in  our  written  Charter  from  the  Imperial 
Parliament.  That  great  commentator, 
Blackstone,  says  of  Parliament : — 

It  hath  sovereign  and  uncoutrollable  authority 
in  making,  confining,  enlarging,  restraining,  re- 
pealing, revising  and  expounding  of  lawg. 

So,  Justice  Story,  in  speaking  of  the 
American  Constitution,  says  : — 

Where  a  power  is  granted  in  general  terms  the 
power  is  to  be  construed  as  co-extensive  with  the 
terms,  unless  some  clear  restriction  upon  it  is 
deducible  from  the  context. 

Chief  Justice  Marshall  says : — 

The  Constitution  unavoidably  deals  in  general 
language,  hence  its  powers  are  expressed  in 
general  terms,  leaving  to  the  Legislature,  from 
time  to  time,  to  adopt  its  own  means  to  effectuate 
legitimate  objects,  and  to  mould  and  model  the 
exercise  of  its  powers  as  its  own  wisdom  and  the 
public  interest  may  require. 

The  only  other  authority  T  shall  quote 
is  from  Duer's  Constitutional  Jurispru- 
dence : — 

No  axiom  is  more  clearly  established  in  law 
or  reason  than  that,  wherever  an  end  is  required, 
the  means  are  authorized  ;  wherever  a  general 
power  to  do  a  thing  is  given,  every  particular 
power  necessary  for  doing  it  is  included. 

But  my  hon.  friend's  motion  is  utterly  in- 
consistent with  the  position  which  he  has 
taken.  He  takes  ground  in  his  speech 
which  is  upset  by  his  motion.  According 
to  that  position  he  is  bound  to  the  elective 
principle,  and  he  is  thereibre  on  principle 
bound  to  do  all  in  his  powor  to  remove 
obstructions  to  its  well-working.  lie  is 
bound  even  to  remove  the  present  nominated 
members  from  the  House.  What  docs  his 
resolution  propose?  It  proposes  not  merely 
to  allow  the  nominated  members  to  remain 
for  life,  but  to  add  ten  to  their  number  ! 
This  is  surely  not  giving  free  scope  to  the 
elective  principle.  Were  the  Lower  Provin- 
ces to  have  the  power  which  my  hon.  friend 
proposes  to  give  them,  they  would  appoint 
ten  of  their  youngest  men  to  seats  in  this 
House,  who  might  be  hero  for  years  after 
those  to  whom  tliey  were  an  off^et  had 
been  removed  from  the  House.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Besides,  he  jjroposes  to  give  the 
present  elected  members  scats  for  eight 
years,  and  then,  of  course,  the  whole 
of  them  would  go  back   for    re-election    at 


once.  I  am  not  convinced  by  any  argu- 
ment which  I  have  heard  that  the  elective 
principle,  exercised  in  some  way,  is  not  the 
best  mode  to  compose  this  House.  It  has 
worked  well  so  far.  All  the  fears  which 
were  entertained  in  reference  to  it  have 
proved  groundless,  and  I  believe  it  would 
continue  to  work  well,  and  therefore,  I  dis- 
approve of  the  change  proposed  in  the 
resolutions.  But  I  am  not  on  that  account 
prepared  to  reject  the  whole  scheme. 
With  all  its  delects  (and  I  believe  those 
defects  will  be  remedied)  I  accept  it,  because 
it  will  be  productive  of  good  to  the  country 
£.t  large.  Therefore,  I  shrink  from  the  res- 
ponsibility of  rejecting  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
have  to  apologize  for  having  detained  the 
House  so  long — (cries  of  "no,no,"  *'goon") — 
but,  before  sitting  down,  I  must  refer  to  the 
amendment  of  which  my  hon.  friend  from 
Niagara  Division  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie)  has 
given  notice.     It  is  as  follows  : — 

That  upon  a  matter  of  such  great  importance 
as  the  proposed  Confederation  of  this  and  certain 
other  British  Colonies,  this  House  is  unwilling  to 
assume  the  responsibility  of  assenting  to  a  measure 
involving  so  many  important  consideration-;,  with 
out  a  fuither  manifestation  of  the  public  will  than 
has  yet  been  declared. 

My  hon.   friend  does  not   tell  us,    in    this 
resolution,  which  he  intends  to  move — 

Hon.  Mr.  ARMSTRONG— I  scarcely 
think  it  is  in  order  to  discuss  a  resolution 
which  has  not  been  moved  yet. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— It  forms  part 
of  the  general  subjact  brought  before  the 
House.  It  is  on  the  notice  paper,  and 
I  think  I  am  quite  in  order  in  referring  to 
it.  I  was  about  to  say  that  my  hon.  friend, 
in  that  notice  docs  not  tell  us  whether 
he  intends  to  propose  that  public  opinion 
shall  be  tested  by  an  t^ppeal  to  the  people 
in  the  way  of  a  dissolution  of  the  Legisla- 
tive Assembl}',  or  by  submitting  the  scliemc 
in  its  integrity  to  a  popular  vote.  If  we 
recommend  the  former  course,  we  should 
place  ourselves  in  rather  a  strange  position. 
If  we  advised  His  Excellency  to  dissolve  the 
House  of  Assembly,  while  we  sat  quietly  by 
to  see  what  was  going  on,  it  would  be  in 
effect  saying — *'  We  iiave  scruples  ns  to 
whether  public  opinion  has,  or  hns  not  cn- 
dor.Kod  those  proposed  eonstitutioiil  ehnngos  ; 
but,  if  your  E.xoiUency  will  be  so  kind  as  to 
dissolve  the  House  of  Asaembly,  those 
scruples  will  be  resolved  by  a  general  elec- 
tion."    (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)     T  think 


221 


that  would  be  an  extraordinary  course  for 
this  House  to  take— and  a  course  which  I 
think  would  not  be  considered  by  the  coun- 
try at  large  a  very  becoming  one.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  the  other  plan  be  what  my  hon. 
friend  intends  by  his  notice,  then  I  say  it 
is  a  process  of  ascertaining  the  popular  sanc- 
tion entirely  unknown  to  the  British  Con- 
stitution. It  is  a  process  unknown  even  to 
our  friends  on  the  other  side  of  the  line, 
except  in  those  cases  where  the  general  or 
state  Constitution  expressly  provides  for  it. 
Where  such  provisions  are  not  contained  in 
the  state  constitutions,  it  is  invariably  held 
that  submission  to  the  popular  vote,  in  order 
to  give  the  force  of  law  to  any  legislative 
act,  is  unconstitutional  and  void.  In  re- 
ference to  the  practice,  Sedgwick,  an  emi- 
nent American  authority,  says  :  — 

Efiforts  have  been  made,  in  several  cases,  by  the 
state  legislatures  to  relieve  themselves  of  the  res- 
ponsibility of  their  functions, by  submitting  statutes 
to  the  will  of  the  people,  in  their  primary  capacity. 
But  these  rroceedings  have  been  held,  and  very 
rightly,  to  be  entirely  unconstitutional  and  invalid. 
The  duties  of  legislation  are  not  to  be  exercised 
by  the  people  at  large.  The  majority  governs, 
but  only  in  the  pi-escribed  form.  The  introduc- 
tion of  practices  of  this  kind  would  remove  all 
checks  on  hasty  and  improvident  legislation,  and 
greatly  diminish  the  benefits  of  representative 
government.  So  when  an  act  to  establish  free 
schools  was  by  its  terms  directed  to  be  submitted 
to  the  electors  of  the  state  to  become  a  law  only 
in  case  a  majority  of  the  votes  were  given  in  its 
favor,  it  was  held  in  New  York  that  the  whole 
proceeding  was  entirely  void  The  Legislature, 
said  the  Court  of  Appeals,  have  no  power  to  make 
such  submission,  nor  had  the  people  the  power  to 
bind  each  other  by  acting  upon  it.  They  volan- 
tarily  surrendered  that  power  when  they  adopted 
the  Constitution.  The  government  of  this  state 
is  democratic,  but  it  is  a  representative  demo- 
cracy, and  in  passing  general  laws  the  people  act 
only  through  their  representatives  in  the  legisla- 
ture. In  Indiana,  the  principle  is  now  framed 
into  a  constitutional  provision  which  vests  the 
legislative  authority  in  a  Senate  and  House  of 
Representatives,  and  declares  that  no  law  shall 
be  passed  the  taking  effect  of  which  shall  be  made 
to  depend  upon  any  authority  except  as  provided 
in  the  Constitution.  And  under  these  provisions 
it  has  been  held  that  so  much  of  an  act  as  relates 
to  its  submission  to  the  popular  vote  was  null  and 
void. 

That  is  the  general  principle,  according  to 
American  practice.  And  as  I  have  said,  the 
process  of  submitting  any  statute  to  the  po- 
pular vote,  in  order  to  give  it  the  force  of 
law,  is  unheard  of  in  British  constitutional 
practice.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  shall  not  detain 


the  House  by  going  into  the  question  of  ex- 
pense, as  I  promised  to  do.'  I  will  simply 
say  in  conclusion,  that  I  do  think  it  is  our 
duty  as  patriotic  men,  as  men  actuated  by  an 
honest  desire  to  extricate  our  country  from 
the  difficulties  in  which  it  is  placed,  to  deal 
fairly  with  this  scheme,  and  as  no  other  has 
been  presented — as  those  who  oppose  it  have 
not  presented  for  our  consideration  any  other 
— have  not  even  suggested  the  possibility  of 
any  other  to  extricate  us  from  the  evils  of 
our  position — and  believing  that  in  the  main 
this  scheme,  as  regards  its  great  leading  out- 
lines, will  effect  that  purpose — then,  I  say,  it 
is  our  duty  as  honest  and  patriotic  men,  to 
approve  of  it  and  to  sanction  it  by  voting  for 
the  resolutions  in  their  integrity.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  have  resolved,  like  my  honorable 
friend  from  the  Western  Division,  and  my 
hon.  friend  from  the  Brock  Division  (Hon. 
Mr.  Blair)  to  vote  against  all  amendments 
which  may  be  offered  to  it.  We  have  been 
told  distinctly  by  the  members  of  the  Gro- 
vernment  that  we  must  either  accept  or 
reject  it  as  it  is — that  amendment  is  impos- 
sible. I  can  very  well  understand  the  reason 
of  that.  It  was  adopted  as  a  compact  be- 
tween the  representatives  of  the  different 
provinces  who  had  assembled  in  Conference 
for  the  express  purpose  of  framing  this  Con- 
stitution. Were  we  to  make  any  inroads 
upon  those  resolutions,  then  the  other  pro- 
vinces might  claim  aud  might  exercise  the 
same  right.  This  instrument  is  not  perfect. 
We  all  admit  that  there  are  points  in  it  to 
which  we  object;  and  there  are  points  in  it, 
I  dare  say,  to  which  our  friends  in  the 
Lower  Provinces  object.  It  is  a  compromise, 
and  I  think  it  is  a  very  able,  and  in  the  main 
a  very  fair  compromise.  It  is  such  a  com- 
promise as  ou^ht  to  commend  itself  to  every 
reasonable  and  candid  mind.  I  think,  there- 
fore, that  all  amendments  should  be  vetoed. 
And  I  am  not  afraid  that,  in  taking  that 
course,  we  shall  not  be  justified  by  the  people 
at  large.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  people  under- 
stand the  meaning  and  effect  of  these  amend- 
ments perfectly  well.  Perhaps  I  should  not 
call  them  **  buncombe,"  but  they  savour  very 
much  of  that  kind  of  thing.  I  think  the 
members  of  this  House  need  have  no  fears 
of  public  opinion  in  this  matter.  As  regards 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada — for  whom  lam 
in  a  better  position  to  speak  than  for  the 
people  of  Lower  Canada — I  a*n  satisfied  they 
will  endorse  our  approbation  of  the  resolu- 
tions ;  although,  as  we  do,  they  may  object; 


222 


to  some  of  the  details.  I  have  not  hesitated 
to  state  my  own  disapproval  of  some  of 
them. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Hear,  hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— I  disapprove  of 
some  of  the  details,  just  as  strongly  as  my 
hon.  friend  from  the  Home  Division  (Hon. 
Mr.  AiKiNS,)or  my  hon.  friend  from  Niagara 
Division  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie).     But  I  look  at 
it  in  this  light :  here  we  are  oflFered  a  Consti- 
tution which  will  deliver  us  from   many  of 
the  great  evils  under  which   wc   have  been 
laboring.    I  feel  that  in  the  main  it  will  have 
that  effect ;  and  that  this  will  be  the  result, 
could  not  have  been  stated  more  clearly  or 
forcibly  than  we  find   it  in  the   document 
which  I  read,  as  coming   from  the  Lower 
Canada  Opposition,  and  signed  by  Hon.  Mr. 
DoRiON,  Hon.  Mr.  Drummond,  Hon.  Mr. 
Dessaulles, and  Hon.  Mr.  McGtEE.  I  think 
that   document   contains   arguments   in   its 
favor  which  are  unanswerable.  (Hear,  hear.) 
In  the  circumstances,  then,  in  which  we  are 
placed,  and  in  the  absence  of  any  other  more 
feasible  scheme,  I  believe  that,  in  spite  oi 
all  its  objectionable  features,  the  good  which 
will  result  from  it  as  a  whole,  will  more  than 
counterbalance  all  the  dififieulties  and  all  the 
evils  which  may    possibly    grow  out  of   it. 
(Hear,  hear.)    And  besides,  it  is  not  a  final- 
ity.    We  have  every  reason    to  believe  that 
those    principles,    which,    1    think,    should 
have    been    embodied     iu    it,    are    such    as 
will  ulti-uately   prevail.     I  have  confidence 
enough  in  the  representatives  of  the  people, 
and  in  the  members  of  the  Upper  House 
to  be  nominated    by  the  Crown,  and   who 
will  compose  that  branch    of  the  new  Le- 
gislature   formed  under    this    Constitution. 
1  say  I   have  confidence  in  them  to  believe 
thai,  if  the  opinions  which  T  hold  in  respect 
to  those  details  shall   prove  to  be   correct, 
the  defects  referred  to  will  be  removed  from 
the  Constitution.    There  will  bo  no  more  dif- 
ficulty ill  excising  the  nominative  principle 
from   the  future  Legislative   Council,   than 
there  was  in  excising  it  from    the    former 
body.     I  might  say  there  were  greater  diffi- 
culties  in  the  one  case   than  in   the  other. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Looking  then  at  the  advan- 
tages likely  to  result  from  the  adoption  of 
the  resolutions — the  establishment  of  pence 
and  harmony  among  the  people  of  this  coun- 
try—  the  getting  rii   of  those  terrible  diffi- 
culties and  conflicts   which    have  beset  our 
path,  wc  ought  not  to  hesitate.     Whatever 
hou.  gentlemen   may  say  now,  they  did  not 


estimate  them  slightly  when  they  were  com- 
plaining of  the  conduct  of  the  governments 
of  the  day,  and  my  hon.  friend  from  Ni- 
agara (Honorable  Mr.  CuRRlE)  inveighed 
against  the  evils  which  then  existed  as 
strongly  as  any  man  could  do.  Looking,  then 
I  say,  at  the  abuses  and  difficulties  which 
have  arisen  under  a  legislative  union ;  and, 
thence  arguing  the  impracticability  of  going 
on  with  that  kind  of  union,  and  believing 
that  the  great  advantages  likely  to  result 
from  this  scheme  of  Federal  union  will  much 
more  than  counterbalance  tho  evils  likely 
to  arise  from  it,  I  do  say  it  is  our  duty 
as  honest  and  patriotic  men  to  adopt  the 
resolutions  presented  to  us  by  the  Con- 
ference.    (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  said— I  have  no 
desire  to  take  up  tho  time  of  the  House, 
and  shall  only  do  so  for  a  moment  or  two. 
I  have  been  unable,  from  ill  health,  to  be 
present  during  the  speeches  on  the  amend- 
ment which  I  had  the  honor  to  submit,  and 
I  shall  merely  avail  myself  of  this  oppor- 
tunity to  answer  two  or  three  of  the  argu- 
ments which  have  been  advanced  by  my 
hon.  friend  who  has  just  taken  his  seat.  It 
appears  to  me  that  the  difficulties  under 
which  my  hon.  friend  labors  can  be  very 
easily  removed  ;  and  that,  if  he  is  raiUy  iu 
harmony  in  sentiment  with  those  who  sus- 
tain the  amendment  now  before  the  Houfe, 
he  ought  not  to  hesitate  to  give  it  his  sup- 
port. On  a  former  occasion  I  endeavored  to 
show  that  the  amcndmeut  did  not  impair 
the  scheme  at  all ;  that  it  did  not  place  us 
in  antagonism  with  any  of  the  other  pro- 
vinces; that  it  was  entirely  a  matter  of  our 
owu  concern, — the  election  of  members  to  the 
Legislative  Council — aud  that  it  was  of  no 
consequence  to  the  other  provinces  how  those 
members  were  e'ected,  if  they  had  relatively 
tho  same  number  as  we.  My  hon.  friend 
accuses  me  of  being  inconsistent  in  taking 
grouud  in  favor  of  tho  elective  principle, 
while  proposing  still  to  retain  the  nominated 
members  in  their  seats,  and  also  to  add  ten 
new  members  from  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
To  this,  I  would  answer  tliat  it  is  an  oscop- 
tioual  condition  iu  which  wo  are  placed.  We 
cannot  obviate  tho  difficulty.  A  similar  dif- 
ficulty presented  itself  to  those  who  sought 
the  change  when  tho  elective  principle  was 
introduced  into  this  House,  and  they  met  it 
just  in  tho  same  manner  in  which  we  propose 
to  meet  it  here.  Tho  life  members  wore 
retained  while  recoi/nitiou  and  sanction  were 


223 


given  to  the  elective  principle,  and  the  House 
remains  now  a  visible  memento  of  the  car- 
rying out  of  the  very  position  which  I  take 
on  the  present  occasion.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
ground  taken  then,  and  to  which  the  Hon. 
Premier  (Hon.  Sir  Etienne  l\  Tache)  gave 
the  sanction  of  his  name  and  reputation, 
was  a  recognition  of  the  principle  embodied 
in  the  amendment  now  before  this  honorable 
House.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  we  gained  any- 
thing by  introducing  the  elective  principle, 
we  propose  to  keep  that  advantage,  by  re- 
taining it  just  in  the  same  form,  and  bear: 
iug  the  same  relation  to  the  proposed  Leg- 
islative Council  as  it  is  retained  in  and  bears 
relation  to  this  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— But,  under  the 
present  union,  there  is  no  federative  necessity 
tor  relative  equality  of  numbers  in  the  Legis- 
lative Council,  as  there  will  be  under  the 
propssed  union. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN — I  admit  no  neces- 
sities of  the  kind.  These  necessities  are  en- 
tirely artificial.  In  that  respect,  I  think  hon. 
gentlemen  are  entirely  in  error  in  the  posi- 
tion they  take.  And,  though  I  concede  to 
my  hon.  friend  from  Erie  Division  (Hon. 
Mr.  Christie)  every  credit  for  great  candor 
and  soundness  of  judgment,  still  I  must  say 
that,  when  he  enters  into  the  province  of 
law,  he  is  travelling  a  little,  as  we  say  in  the 
profession,  out  of  the  record — and  that  any 
one  who  is  familiar  with  the  doctrine  of 
trusts  could  not  fail  to  see  the  falseness  of 
his  reasoning  in  that  particular.  As  regards 
a  trust;  of  course,  the  person  who  has  a  man- 
date given  to  him,  must  act  according  to  his 
discretion  under  the  circumstances.  But 
then  he  must  do  so  within  the  trust  that  is 
given  him,  and  not  beyond  the  trust. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— Of  course. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN -My  hon.  friend 
cites  the  act  empowering  the  Legislature  of 
Canada  to  change  the  constitution  of  the 
Legislative  Council,  and  on  this  act  he  bases 
his  whole  argument.  If  I  convince  him  that 
that  act  does  not  cover  his  argument,  will 
he  then  concede  the  point  ?  That  act,  to 
which  my  hon.  friend  refers,  was  passed  for 
a  specific  purpose,  to  enable  Parliament  to  re- 
construct this  House.  It  had  answered  its 
purpose  when  the  constitution  of  this  House 
was  changed,  but  it  cannot  properly  be  in- 
voked as  giving  authority  with  reference  to 
bringing  in  other  provinces  to  form  a  now 
Confederacy. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— But  my  hon. 
friend  will  observe,  that  we  ^re  not  legislat- 


ing  now — that  we   are   merely  passing  an 
Address. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— We  must  feel 
that,  according  to  the  rules  of  law,  we  are 
asked  here  to  go  beyond  the  duties  which 
our  electors  sent  us  into  this  House  to  dis- 
charge. I  contend  that  neither  any  act  on 
our  own  Statute  Book,  nor  any  Imperial  Act, 
authorizes  us  to  assume  that  they  elected  us 
to  come  here  to  demolish  the  whole  fabric  of 
our  Constitution,  and  to  seek  to  form  another 
and  entirely  dilFerent  political  system,  em- 
bracing a  number  of  other  provinces,  so  that 
our  identity  is  entirely  swamped  and  lost. 
I  must  say  that,  if  my  hon.  friend  feels 
bound  at  all  by  the  trust  committed  to  him 
by  those  who  sent  him  here  as  a  representa- 
tive of  the  people,  I  conceive  he  is  neces- 
sarily bound  to  this,  that  he  must  sustain 
the  elective  principle  with  regard  to  the 
constitution  of  the  proposed  Legislative 
Council.  It  is  impossible,  I  think,  to  arrive 
at  any  other  conclusion.  (Hear,  hear.)  My 
hon.  friend  made  use  of  one  expression,  with 
apparently  some  degree  of  reluctance — the 
term  "  buncombe."  I  think  that  was  sug- 
gestive, and  very  suggestive.  For,  if  those 
who  are  favoring  this  principle  favor  it  for 
what  my  hon.  friend  characreviaes  as  "  bun- 
combe," then  they  are  seeking  popularity 
with  the  people — -they  are  seeking  what  the 
people  want — (hear,  hear) — and  that  argu- 
ment certainly  does  not  avail  my  hon.  friend 
in  his  present  position ;  for  he  maintains 
that  the  people  fully  understand  this  thing, 
and  want  it.  If  this  be  the  case — if  the 
whole  Province  of  Canada  is  bent  upon  hav- 
ing this  scheme — then  those  who  are  trying 
to  resist  it  are  standing  alone,  and  are  either 
acting  patriotically,  or  are  beside  themselves. 
They  cannot  certainly  be  acting  from  any 
desire  to  obtain  popularity,  because,  accord- 
ing to  my  hon.  friend,  they  are  just  doing 
what  the  people  do  not  want  them  to  do. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  know  that  the  position  of 
my  hon.  friend  is  somewhat  embarrassing. 
He  resides  in  a  section  of  the  province, 
where  he  feels  there  is  a  difficulty  that  needs 
to  be  removed  in  some  way  or  other ;  and 
he  is  now  endeavoring  to  show  that  the  best 
means  of  removing  that  difficulty  is  to  em- 
brace a  great  many  other  difficulties  of  a 
huge  character,  and  of  which  we  cannot 
fully  comprehend  the  consequences.  When 
an  hon.  gentleman  is  prepared  to  take  that 
ground,  I  think  it  would  be  better  for  him 
to  take  it  in  silence,  than  to  attempt  to  sus- 
tain it  by  reason.    As  regards  Lower  Canada^ 


224 


we  are  not  situated  in  the  same  way.  There 
is  the  French  party,  and  there  is  the  Eng- 
lish party  in  Lower  Canada,  who  are  situated 
very  diflFerently  from  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada;  and  the  people  of  Upper  Canada 
have  a  disposition  not  to  recognize  their 
peculiar  circumstances,  or  to  have  any  con- 
cern for  them  at  all.  If  my  hon.  friend  will 
pardon  me,  I  would  say  that  his  whole 
philosophy  is  in  favor  of  Upper  Canada.  In 
speaking  of  the  public  opinion  of  this  pro- 
vince, it  was  always  Upper  Canada — he  had 
no  idea  of  Lower  Canada  as  having  any  exis- 
tence or  any  rights. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— My  hon.  friend 
is  quite  m'staken.  I  quoted  as  lengthily 
from  the  manifesto  of  the  Lower  Canada 
Opposition,  as  from  that  of  the  Upper 
Canada  Opposition, 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— I  am  now  speak- 
ing of  the  English  of  Lower  Canada ;  and, 
as  regards  the  people  giving  a  distinct  assent 
to  this  proposition,  my  hon.  friend  will  admit 
that  the  English  of  Lower  Canada  have  not 
given  such  an  assent. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— I  stated  that  I 
could  speak  with  more  confidence  as  to  the 
public  opinion  of  the  section  of  country  to 
which  I  belonged,  than  with  regard  to  Lower 
Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN—The  resolutions 
to  which  Hon.  Mr.  Dorion  was  a  party,  and 
which  were  read  by  my  hon.  friend,  I  con- 
ceive to  embody,  not  what  Mr.    Dorion's 
party,  or  any  one  political  party  rather  than 
another  desired.     I  take  it  for  granted  that 
British  subjects  of  French  Canadian  origin 
generally  have  their  feelings  in  that  direc- 
tion— that  is,   they  desire  large  power  for 
the  local  government — in   fact   they  would 
desire  the  local  governments  to  be  the  real 
governments,  and  that  the  Federation  should 
be  very  much  nominal,  for  very  minor  pur- 
poses, and    with   very    weak, powers   in  the 
Central  Government ;    while,  on   the   other 
hand,    the   English    population    of    Lower 
Canada  would  take  the  opposite  view,  and 
desire  larger  powers  in  the  Central  Govern- 
ment, ami  smaller  powers  in  the  Local  Go- 
vernment.    This,  I  think,  was  the  view  to 
which  the  resolutions  read  by  my  hon.  friend 
had  reference.     Now,  as  regards  the  Reform 
party  of  Upper  Canada,  let  us  see  what  they 
had  reference  t(; — whether  it  was  anything 
like  the  ('onstitution  which  is  now  proposed. 
1  hold  in  my  hand  a  pamphlet — the  Address 
of  the  Reform  Constitutional  Association  to 


the  people  of  Upper  Canada  in  1859 — and 
I  find  here  what  they  conceive  to  be  the  true 
remedy  thus  stated  : — 

"  The  true  remedy  !"  What  then  is  the  remedy 
best  adapted  to  deliver  the  province  from  the 
disastrous  position  it  now  occupies  ?  We  answer 
— dissolve  the  existing  legislative  unicn.  Divide 
Canada  into  two  or  more  provinces  with  local 
executives  and  legislatures  having  entire  control 
over  every  public  interest  except  those,  and  those 
only,  that  are  necessarily  common  to  all  parts  of 
the  province.  Let  no  public  debt  be  incurred  by 
the  legislatures,  until  the  sanction  has  been  ob- 
tained by  direct  vote.  Establish  some  central 
authority  over  all,  with  power  to  administer  such 
matters,  and  such  only  as  are  necessarily  common 
to  the  whole  province.  Let  the  functions  of  this 
central  authority  be  clearly  laid  ;  let  its  powers 
be  strictly  confined  to  discharging  specified  duties. 
Prohibit  it  from  incurring  any  new  debt,  or  levy- 
ing more  taxation  than  is  required  to  meet  the 
interest  of  existing  obligations,  discharge  its  own 
specified  duties,  and  gradually  pay  off  the  nationaf 
debt.  Secure  these  rights  by  a  written  constitu- 
tion, ratified  by  the  people,  and  incapable  ol 
alteration  except  by  their  formal  sanction. 

This  was  the  programme  laid  down  by  the 
Upper  Canada  Reform  Convention  of  1859. 

Hon.  Mil.  CURRIE— Who  is  the  author 
of  that  address  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— Various  parties 
had  a  hand  in  it.  I  find  the  name  of  Hon. 
Mr.  McDoUGALL,  the  present  Provincial 
Secretary,  attached  to  it.  And  I  suppose 
my  hon.  friend  irom'Erie  Division  (Hon.  Mr. 
Christie)  was  one  of  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— They  proposed  that 
the  Constitution  should  be  submitted  to  the 
people  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— Yes ;  it  was  to 
be  ratified  by  a  direct  vote  of  the  people. 
And  the  beauty  of  the  thing  was,  that  the 
Central  Parliament  was  to  be  bound  not  to 
increase  the  debt  of  the  provinces,  but 
gradually  to  pay  it  off".  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
apprehend  the  Reform  party  of  Upper  Can- 
ada at  that  time  was  wiser  than  the  same 
party  in  these  days. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— That  is  a  ques- 
tion. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— If  my  honorablo 
friend  would  take  that  platform,  or  something 
like  it,  I  should  bo  happy  to  L-ive  it  my  best 
consideration  at  once  ;  and  I  should  be  very 
glad  if  they  would  only  give  us  a  small  part 
of  It,  of  which  1  think  they  must  see  tho 
justice — namely,  written  guarantees,  so  as 
to  assure  us  that  our  rights  of  property  shall 
not  be  overturned  by  the  Local  Parliameut  j 


225 


to  prevent,  for  example,  a  Squatter's  bill — 
(laughter) — being  passed  at  the  very  first 
opportunity  in  the  Local  Parliament,  demol- 
ishing all  the  rights  of  property.     I  see  my 
hon.  friend  opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  CRAwroRD) 
look  melancholy,  because  he  foresees  that, 
when  the  new  Constitution  is  adopted,  twelve 
months  will  not  pass  before  that  becomes 
law  in  Lower  Canada,  and  all  protection  for 
proprietors,  so    far   as   that    is    concerned, 
brought  to  an  end.     But  this  is  only  one 
instance,  significant  of  what  will  take  place. 
It  is  perfectly  well  known,  and  none  can 
realize  it  better  than  those  who  have  a  much 
greater  horror   of   the  progress  of   popular 
sentiments  than  I  have,  that  the   tendency 
in  the  popular  mind  is  to  break  down  mon- 
opolies of  every  kind,  and  to  go  to  extremes 
in   dealing  with  vested   rights,   even  those 
which  are  established  and  founded  on  sub- 
stantial principles  of  justice.     Now,  these 
rights,  at  the  very  least,  ought  certainly  to 
be  confided  to  the  highest  legislative  author- 
ity.    I  go  further  and  maintain  that  guaran- 
tees for  those  rights  ought  to  be  placed  in  the 
written  Constitution,  that  they  ought  to  be 
beyond   the  power  of   interference   by  the 
legislative  authority,  and   that  they  should 
be  guarded  by  the  judicial  decisions  of  the 
highest  courts  in  the  country.     In  that  case 
there  would  be  a  protection  for  property,  but 
in  this  Constitution  there  is  no  such  protec- 
tion for  property  either  in  Upper  or   Lower 
Canada.     And  here  is  the   point  to  which 
I  ask  the  attention  of  my  honorable  friends 
of  all  parties — a  point  which  I  think  all  of 
them  have  been  too  little  concerned  about, 
and  which  applies  just  as  well  to  Upper  as 
to  Lower  Canada.     For  I  say  that,  if  some 
security  is  not  given  to  the  people  in  one  of 
those  ways   for   maintaining  vested    rights 
and   interests  of  this  'character,  the  most 
disastrous  results  will   arise  in    every  Local 
Parliament ;    because,    when    these    parlia- 
ments   are    constructed,    they   will    neces- 
sarily consist  of  a  difi'erent  class  of  men  from 
those  who  now  compose   the  legislatures  of 
the  various  provinces.     There  will  be  such 
inducements  to  men  of  the  highest  order  to 
get  elected  to  the   Central   Parliament,  that 
the  conrcqueuce  will  necessarily  and  natur- 
ally be  the  result  to  which  I  point.     (Hear, 
hear.)     I  should  like  to  refer  to  one  argu- 
ment which  was  used  by  my  hon.  friend'^from 
Saugeen  (Hon.  Mr.  Macpherson) — who  is 
not  now  in  his  place — that  the  appointment 
of  members   of  the   Legislative  Council  in 

30 


tho  proposed  Federal   Parliament  is  not  in 
fact  an   abandonment  of  the    elective  prin- 
ciple, because  the  appointments  are  to  be  by 
the  Ministry  of  the  day,  who  must  have  the 
confidence  of  the  people.     That  is  certainly 
a  most  extraordinary  argument.     If  it  held 
good  at  all,  it  should  apply  equally  to  both 
Houses,  and  the  Legislative  Assembly  should 
be  appointed  by  the  Ministry,  because  the 
Ministry  have  been   selected   by  those  who 
have  been  elected  by  the  people.     This  is 
the   clear,   logical   deduction  from  my  hon. 
friend's  argument,  if  it  is  good  for  anything 
— because,  if  appointment  by  the    3j  inistry 
is  not  an  abandonment  of  the  elective  prin- 
ciple, you  would  still  have  an  elective  Legis- 
lative Assembly,  although  its  members  were 
appointed    by-    the    Government        (Hear, 
hear.)     But  this  was  also  well  answered  on 
a  former  occasion  by  my  hon.  friend  behind 
me  (Hon.  Mr.   Aikins.)     It  is  not  simply 
the  first  appointment  that  we  oppose.      It  is 
the    appointments    afterwards,    as  the   first 
members  die  out   or    resign,  and  their  suc- 
cessors are  appointed  on  the  nomination   of 
the  future   local   governments.     Instead   of 
this  producing  a  favorable   result,  it  appears 
to  me  it  will  have  just  the  opposite  effect. 
The  reason  is   plain.     If,    in  the   very  first 
instance,  the  prerogative  is  exercised,  not  by 
the  Sovereign  or  the  Sovereign's  representa- 
tive, unbiassed,  but  is  exercised   by  a  party 
government,  you  have  a   House  constituted 
at  its  very  first  meeting  of  a  party  character. 
In  the  other  branch  that  particular  Govern- 
ment has  a  majority.     But   it   is    possible, 
that  that  party  may  not  long  retain  power. 
In  the   nature  of  things   it  is   not  probable 
that  they   will.      l\o   party   does.     But  the 
Upper   House  remains   permanent,  and  you 
provide  by  your  very  first  operation  for  that 
dead-lock — that  conflict  between  the  Upper 
and  the  Lower  House,  which  has  been  spoken 
of.     (Hear,  hear.) 

On  motion  of  Hon.   Mr.  MOORE,  the 
debate  was  adjourned  till  to-morrow. 


Thursday,  February  16,  1865. 

,,,HoN.  Mr.  MOOEE  said  —  Honorable 
gentlemen,  it  is  with  a  great  degree  of  diflt- 
dence  that  I  rise  to  address  this  House,  after 
the  very  able  speeches  that  have  been  made 
on  both  sides  of  this  question,  but  I  shall 
endeavor,  honorable  gentlemen,  as  briefly  as 


226 


possible — for  I  do  not  feel  able  to  address  you 
at  any  length — to  speak  in  that  moderate  tone 
in  which  I  conceive  the  question  before  us 
ought  to  be  dealt  with.     In  ihe  discussion  of 
so  important  a  question  as  the  change  of  the 
Constitution  of  the  country,  the  laying  aside 
of  the  old  Constitution  and  the  adoption  of  a 
new  and  very  different  one,  we  all  ought  to 
endeavor  to  find  common   ground  oi'  agree- 
ment.    It  is  important  that  no  party,  or  at 
least    no    sectional    interest    among   political 
parties,  should  betray  itself  in  the  discussion 
of  so  important  a  subject.      I   shall  now  en- 
deavor to  take  a  brief  view  of  the  scheme, 
as  it  is  presented,  and  endeavor  to  give  an 
exposition   of  the   views   which   I   entertain 
with  regard  to  this  matter.      ("Hear,  hear.) 
It  appears  to  me,  in  the  first  place,  that  the 
origin  of  this  scheme  was  not  what  it  ought 
to  have  been.     It  did  not  emanate  from  the 
people,  but  irom  the  fact  that  certain  politi- 
cal difficulties  existed   in   Canada,   in   conse- 
quence of  the  political  parties  being  so  equally 
divided  that  it  was  found  impracticable  to  get 
on   with  the    government  of    this   province. 
The  scheme  emanated  from  the  Government 
of  thip,  country  in  consequence  of  those  politi- 
cal difficulties,  and  had  not  its  origin  with 
any  movement  among  the  masses  of  the  peo- 
ple.    It  is  very  well  known  that  at  the  last 
general  election,  in  18U3,  this  was  not  among 
the  questions  that  were  brought  before   the 
country.     It  was  not  one  of  those  questions 
that  the  people  were  called  upon  to  decide  in 
returning  members  to  represent  them  in  the 
Legislature.     It  is  very  true  that  the  scheme 
of  a  Federal  union   of  all  the  provinces  has 
been  spoken  ol'  for  a  quarter  of  a  century  by 
eminent  men  of  all  shades  of  politics.     We 
may  refer  to  the  convention  that  was  held  at 
Kingston,    at   which    the   British    American 
League  was  formed.       That  convention  was 
convened  by  the  Conservative  party  of  Upper 
Canada.     !Subsc(|uently,  the  great  meeting — 
il  I  may  use  that  expression — that  was  con- 
vened in  the  city  of  Toronto,  referred  to  the 
same  question.     But  I  go  back  and  appeal  to 
the  fact   that  at  the   last  general  election,  it 
was  not  one  of  those  (questions  that  were  re- 
ferred to  the  arbitrament    of  the   people  to 
decide  by  their  votes  as  to  the  (Icsinihility  of 
union.      I    think  every  iiontirable  gentleman 
will  agree  with   me  that  this  was  the   fact. 
Now,  honorable  gentlemen,  1  desire  to  speak 
in  a  temjierate  tone  and  manner  in  regard  to 
this  Bcheme.      I   bcliovo  the  gentlemen  that 
now  constituto  the  Government  of"  Canada,  as 
well    hs  the  gentlemen  who  constitute  the  dif- 


ferent governments  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  are 
all  able  men,  and  I  believe  they  are  all  honest 
and  practical  men,  and  it  was  by  and  through 
the  instrumentality  of  honorable  gentlemen 
constituting  the  Government  of  Canada  in 
connection  with  the  governments  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  that  this  scheme,  if  it  had  not 
its  origin,  at  least  was  by  them  put  before  the 
people  of  this  country  in  the  shape  in  which 
it  now  presents  itself  in  these  resolutions.  I 
therefore  observe  that  this  is  a  measure 
emanating  from  the  minds  of  the  foremost 
men  in  Canada,  and  probably  the  foremost 
men  on  the  continent  of  America.  Still,  it  is 
not  a  measure  that  has  emanated  from  the 
people,  and  I  would  ask  you  all,  honorable 
gentlemen,  in  reference  to  the  change  of 
a  country's  Constitution,  if  history  does  not 
bear  me  out  in  asserting  that  all  such  changes 
are  preceded  by  a  rising  of  the  people  in  favor 
of  the  change.  The  people,  feeling  oppressed 
by  the  existing  state  of  things,  rise  in  their 
majesty  and  put  an  end  to  its  continuance, 
and  demand  a  new  Constitution.  But  in  re- 
gard to  a  change  effected  in  the  manner  in 
which  this  is  proposed,  by  the  united 
wisdom  of  the  several  governments,  without 
any  convulsion,  I  hold  that  under  those  cir- 
cumstances the  people  of  the  whole  country  to 
be  affected  by  the  change  ought  to  have  an 
opportunity  of  considering  the  gi-eat  change. 
It  18  not  sufficient  in  my  mind  that  a  few  of 
the  leading  spirits  of  the  land  should  be  able 
to  control  and  bring  about  so  great  a  change 
without  the  initiatory  steps  being  taken  on 
the  part  of  the  people.  Now,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, I  would  refer  to  the  representation  in 
the  first  conference — the  conference  in  which 
the  initiatory  steps  were  taken — at  Charlotte- 
town.  All  honorable  gentlemen  are  aware 
that  the  governments^  of  the  several  Maritime 
Provinces  had  decreed  by  resolutions  pa.ssed 
during  former  sessions  of  their  several  par- 
liaments, that  they  were  to  send  delegates  to 
meet  at  Charlottetown,  for  the  purpose  of 
uniting  their  several  governments  under  one 
government ;  in  other  words,  to  consolidate 
their  governments  into  what  would  bo  termed 
a  legislative  union.  We  could  all  under.-taud 
from  the  position  of  those  several  local  gov- 
ernnK'nt,s  that  it  was  a  matter  of  very  great 
importauco  that  they  should  unite  their  gov- 
ernments under  one  to  obviate  the  necessity 
of  having  different  rates  of  duty  ;  and  in  fact 
their  intorests  were  so  blended  that  wo  eau 
understand  that  union  was  of  very  great  im- 
portance to  them.  The  Government  of  Can- 
ada met  tb«  dologatea  at  Charlott   :  wn,  and 


227 


by  the  representations  that  were  made  to  the 
representatives  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  they 
abandoned  their  project  of  meeting  together 
for  the  purpose  of  consolidating  their  govern- 
ments, and  took  up  the  larger  question  of  a 
Federal  union  of  all  the  provinces.  I  believe, 
honorable  gentlemen,  that  if  the  inducements 
held  out  to  the  delegates  convened  at  Char- 
lottetown  to  abandon  their  first  scheme  were 
fully  known,  it  would  be  found  that  chief 
among  them  was  the  construction  of  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway.  It  strikes  me  very  for- 
cibly from  all  that  I  heard  in  the  Lower 
Provinces  during  a  recent  tour,  that  if  there 
was  one  thino;  more  than  another  to  which 
the  people  gave  prominence,  it  was  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway.  Now,  with  reference  to  this 
subject,  the  plan  previously  adopted  was,  that 
Canada  was  to  furnish  five-twelfths  of  the 
money,  and  the  Maritime  Provinces  seven- 
twelfths.  It  appears  by  the  resolutions  laid 
on  the  table  of  this  House,  that  if  the  Con- 
federation scheme  is  carried  out,  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway  is  to  be  built.  I  admit  it  is 
a  matter  of  necessity  that  it  should  be  built 
in  that  case.  There  is  no  doubt  about  it. 
We  cannot  have  union  without  it.  But  the 
fact  does  exist,  that  instead  of  Canada  con- 
tributing five-twelfths  of  the  cost  of  construc- 
tion, it  will  be  called  upon  to  contribute 
about  ten-twelfths.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  merely 
mention  the  fact  to  show  that  it  appears  to 
me  that  some  strong  inducement  must  have 
been  held  out  to  the  delegates  from  the  Low- 
er Provinces  to  enter  into  this  great  scheme, 
when  we  find,  as  it  is  very  well  known,  that 
the  Intercolonial  Railway  has  been  one  of  those 
objects  that  has  been  first  and  foremost  in 
the  minds  of  the  people  of  almost  all  the 
Lower  Provinces.  It  would  open  up  for 
them  a  vast  section  of  new  country,  and  the 
benefits  to  be  derived  would  certainly  be  par- 
amount to  them  above  anything  Canada  could 
derive  from  its  construction.  It  is  therefore 
evident  to  my  mind  that  this  inducement  has 
been  held  out  in  order  to  induce  those  prov- 
inces to  come  into  the  proposed  union.  Again, 
with  regard  to  representation  in  the  Confer- 
ference — I  refer  now  to  the  Conference  at 
Quebec  —  there  were  twenty-one  honorable 
gentlemen  constituting  the  delegation  from 
the  Lower  Provinces.     Am  I  correct  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— I  believe  that 
is  correct. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE — There  were  twelve 
delegates  from  the  Province  of  Canada.  We 
were  told  by  my  honorable  friend  the  Commis- 
sioner of  Grown  Lands  that  they  did  not  vote 


by  numbers  but  by  provinces.  Well,  in  vot- 
ing by  provinces,  I  think  there  was  nothing 
to  be  gained,  so  far  as  the  advocacy  of  certain 
measures  in  the  interests  of  the  Province  of 
Canada  was  concerned  in  this  Convention. 
For  if  they  voted  by  provinces,  the  little 
Island  of  Prince  Edward,  and  Newfoundland, 
would  equal  the  votes  of  the  Province  of  Ca- 
nada. Now,  honorable  gentlemen,  when  we 
consider  the  position  of  Canada,  our  resources, 
and  the  amount  that  this  province  will  bring 
into  the  common  treasury,  it  does  appear  to 
me  that  Canada  was  not  equitably  represented 
in  the  Convention.  I  would  not  for  one  mo- 
ment attribute  to  the  delegates  from  Canada 
neglect  of  their  duty  in  any  particular,  but 
when  there  became  a  necessity  that  certain 
arrangements  were  to  be  made  with  the  Lower 
Provinces,  then  I  can  understand  that  if  they 
were  more  favorable  to  the  Lower  Provinces 
than  to  Canada,  the  vote  would  preponderate 
in  favor  of  the  former.  There  is  another 
point,  honorable  gentlemen,  to  which  I  would 
like  to  draw  your  attention,  namely,  the  in- 
crease of  the  expense  of  government  under 
the  new  arrangement.  It  does  appear  to  me, 
that  if  the  scheme  is  adopted,  it  will  neces- 
sarily increase  the  burdens  of  the  people,  and, 
I  believe  that  we  wiU  be  obliged  to  resort  to 
direct  taxation  to  sustain  the  local  govern- 
ments. It  appears  to  me  impossible  to  have 
so  many  local  governments,  and,  also,  a  Gene- 
ral Government,  without  greatly  adding  to  the 
expense.  There  is  yet  another  point  on  which 
I  feel  more  deeply  than  on  any  of  the  preced- 
ing. It  places  Lower  Canada  in  a  false  posi- 
tion. The  Anglo-Saxon  race  of  Lower  Cana- 
da is  nearly  one-fourth  of  the  population,  and 
in  the  Local  Government  they  will  be  com- 
pletely under  the  control  of  the  people  of 
French  origin ;  not  that  I  believe  but  that  the 
latter  would  endeavor  to  give  all  their  just 
due,  but  still  it  does  appear  to  me  that  it 
places  the  people  of  Anglo-Saxon  origin  in  a 
false  position.  Then  the  French  population 
in  the  Federal  Government  is  placed  in  a  false 
position,  for  there  they  will  be  in  a  very  small 
minority — in  the  same  position,  relatively,  as 
the  Anglo-Saxon  race  in  the  Local  Govern- 
ment. The  honorable  gentleman  who  ad- 
dressed the  House  so  very  ably  and  eloquent- 
ly last  evening — the  honorable  member  for 
Erie — said  he  preferred  taking  the  scheme  as 
it  was  rather  than  risk  any  alteration.  It  has 
also  been  said  by  honorable  gentlemen  of  the 
Government,  that  they  could  not  permit  any 
alteration,  or  suggestion  of  amendment,  to  bo 
made  in  the  resolutions  now  before  the  Houee. 


228 


But  it  does   appear  to  me,  honorable  gentle- 
men, that  inasmuch  as  there  are  five  different 
legislatures  to  take  those  resolutions  into  con- 
sideration, if  any  one  branch  of  either  of  those 
legislatures  should  be  able  to  suggest  any  im- 
provements, and    the    resolutions    should   be 
changed  before  their  adoption  by  that  branch, 
such  a  step  would  not  defeat  the  •whole  scheme. 
It  would  be  only  offering  so  many  suggestions 
on  the  part  of  the  representatives  of  the  peo- 
ple.    Of  course  any  alterations  suggested  in 
this   manner,  would  go  before  the  Imperial 
Parliament    as    a   basis  upon  which  to  con- 
struct an  Act   of   Union.      It  would    afford 
the    Imperial     Parliament     an    opportunity 
of    knowing    the    people's    sentiments,    and 
would    not    in     any     way     really    interfere 
with  the   proposed  union  being  carried  out. 
Therefore  I  think  that  any  amendment  that 
may  be  made  in  this  branch  of  the  Legisla- 
ture, or  in  the  other  branch,  or  in  either  of 
the  branches  of  the  legislatures  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces,  would  only  go  before  the  Im- 
perial Parliament  as  so  many  suggestions  that 
might  very  properly  be  considered  by  the  Im- 
perial authorities  in  dealing  with  so  very  im- 
portant a  subject.     Now,  admittinj^,  as  I  do 
admit,  that  the   gentlemen  who   constituted 
the  delegation  from   Canada  in  the  Conven- 
tion, were  the  first  men  of  our   land — I  be- 
lieve  men   of  patriotism,  and  who  desired  to 
do  only  that  which  was  for  the  best  interests 
of  the  country — still  they  are  not  infallible. 
They  may  have  made  mistakes,  and  may  have 
omitted  some  things  that,  even  if  they  were 
again  to  go  into  conference  after  six  months 
had  elapsed,  might  be  placed   in  the  resolu- 
tions that  would  very  much   improve  them. 
My  honorable    friend  from  Peel  has  stated 
that  although  he  approved  of  most  of   the 
resolutions,    he   desired   to   see    amendments 
made,  but  inasmuch  as  he  saw  their  intro- 
duction by  this  House  would  be  fatal  to  the 
whole  measure,  he  would  take  the  whole  as 
it  stood.       I    disagi-ee   with   that  honorable 
gentleman,   and   witli   the  position  taken  by 
the     honorable    gentlemen    representing   the 
Government  in   this  House.     I  thiuk  it  is  a 
mistake,  and  it  is  insulting  to  both  the  House 
and   the  country   to  suppose   tliat,  because  a 
certain    number  ol'  men  met  together  and  do- 
liberated   for    fifteen  or  eighteen  days,  thero 
sliould   be  no    improvement    made   upon  tl  o 
result    of    tlieir    deliberations.       Now,    lion- 
orable  gentlemen,  1  am  one  ol'  those  who,  if 
I  can  be  convinced  that  a  Federal  union  i« 
going  to  pnjmote  the  stability  or  welfare  of 
Uana4u,  will  go  with  it  most  heartily,  but  I 


do  tldnk  it  becomes  necessary  not  to  make 
out  altogether  an  ex  parte  case,  because  I  think 
the  resolutions  that  were  passed  by  the  dele- 
gates, though  sent  out  to  the  country,  ought 
to  be  accompanied  by  the  other  side  of  the 
question,  which  hai5  not  been  fairly  lieard. 
There  is  still  another  matter  to  which  I  wish 
to  refer,  and  in  doing  so  I  might  remark  that 
I  am  aware  that  this  is  looking  at  the  darkest 
side  of  the  picture.  I  think  that  the  emzraft^ 
ing  of  tliis  system  of  government  upon  the 
British  Constitution  has  a  tendency  to  at 
least  introduce  the  republican  system.  It  is 
republican  so  far  as  it  goes,  and  that  is  an- 
other reason  wLy  I  do  not  approve  of  it.  If 
we  commence  to  adopt  the  republican  system, 
we  shall  perhaps  get  the  idea  of  continuing 
the  system  until  we  go  too  far.  It  is  also 
said  that  we  are  to  have  a  new  nationality. 
I  do  not  understand  that  term,  honorable 
gentlemen.  If  we  were  going  to  have  an  in- 
dependent sovereignty  in  this  country,  then  I 
could  understand  it.  I  believe  honorable 
gentlemen  will  agree  with  me,  that  after  this 
scheme  is  fully  carried  into  operation,  we  shall 
still  be  colonies. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Of  couri^e. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOOKE— Now,  t.iat  being  the 
case,  I  think  our  Local  Government  will  be 
placed  in  a  lower  position  than  in  the  Govern- 
ment we  have  now.  Every  measure  resolved 
upon  in  the  Local  Government  will  be  subject 
to  the  veto  of  the  Feder.il  Government — that 
is,  any  measure  or  bill  passing  the  Local 
Legislature  may  be  disallowed  within  one  year 
by  the  Federal  Government. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— That  is  the 
case  at  present  as  between  Canada  and  the 
Imperial  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOOKE— I  beg  to  differ  slightly 
with  the  honorable  gentleman.  Any  measure 
passed  by  this  province  may  be  disallowed 
within  two  years  thereafter  by  the  Imperial 
Government.  But  the  local  governments, 
under  Confedei'ation,  are  to  be  subjected  to 
having  their  measures  vetoed  within  oiio  year 
by  the  Federal  Government,  and  then  the 
Imperi:d  Government  has  the  priviU'LCO  of 
vetoing  anything  the  Federal  Government 
may  do,  within  two  years.  The  veto  power 
thus  placed  in  the  hands  of  the  Federal  (iov- 
ernment,  if  exerci.sed  fre(|uently,  would  be 
almost  certain  to  cause  dinicnlty  between  the 
local  and  general  governments.  1  »»b.>^'rvo 
that  my  honorable  friend,  Sir  Etienne  P. 
TAi'iifi,  does  not  approbate  that  remark. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Vou  undcrsUmd 
mo  corroctly. 


229 


Hon.  Mr.  MOORE— It  will  be  conceded 
that  the  question  of  the  veto  power  was  very 
ably   discussed,    at  one  time,   in  the  United 
States  Congress,  and  that  discussion  led  to  a 
qualification  of  the  veto  power  in  the  Consti- 
tution of  the  United  States,  so  that  now  any 
bill  passed  by  both  Houses  may  be  vetoed  by 
the  President  within  ten  days  thereafter,  by 
assigning  reasons  for  doing  so.     Both  Houses 
may  then,  however,  again  take  up  the  measure, 
and  if  they   pass  it  by  a  two-third   vote,   it 
becomes  the  law  of  the  land,  independent  of 
the  President's  will.     Now,  I  would  have  the 
veto  power  applied  in  a  similar   way  in  our 
new  Constitution.     Exercising  it  in  an  arbi- 
trary manner,  as  the  Federal  power  is  privileged 
to  do,  it  must,  from  the  very  nature  of  things, 
create   dissatisfaction  and    diflBculty  between 
the  two  governments.     Again,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, it  is  said  that  by  this  union  we  are  to 
strengthen   our  defensive  capacity.     I  really 
cannot  see  the  force  of  this  argument,  unless 
it  were  possible  that  in  uniting  with  the  Lower 
Provinces  their  population  was  to  be  brought 
nearer  to  us.     If  nature  were  to  make   the 
necessary  effort  and  move  their  territory  up 
alongside  of  us,  and  thus  make  a  compact  mass 
of  people,  I  would  at  once  agree  that  it  would 
strengthen  us  in  a  military  point  of  view.     But 
the  fact  is,  the  union  will  give  an  extension  of 
territory  far  greater  in  proportion  to  the  num- 
bers of  the   population    than  now   exists  in 
Canada.     From    that   circumstance,   I  argue 
that  it  will  weaken  instead  of  strengthen  us. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Unfortunately,  if  a  war  should 
take  place  between  the   United  States   and 
Great  Britain,  the  Lower  Provinces  have  a 
thousand  miles  of  sea  coast  open  to  attack, 
and  I  apprehend  they  would  be  very  jealous 
about  having  their  militi:imen  sent  to  Canada 
for  our  defence  from  border  incursions.     And 
it  would  be  very  natural  for  them  to  desire 
that  all  their  own  force  should  be  kept  at  home 
for  their  protection  ;  and  the  same  with  regard 
to  Canada.     If  a  considerable  portion  of  the 
militia  of  Canada  were  ordered  to  proceed  to 
the  Lower  Provinces,  it  would  most  certainly 
weaken  and  cause  great  dissatisfaction  in  Can- 
ada.    But,  setting  that  aside,  does  it  increase 
our  numbers  and  our  means  of  defence  ?     Have 
we  not  the  same  territory  exposed  ?  We  shall 
have  no  additional  men  by  the  union  for  the 
defence  of  Canada.     Perhaps,  after  the  union 
takes   place,    emigration    will   flow   into    the 
country,  but  I  do  not  know  that  there  would  be 
any   very   gi-eat   inducement,  after  a   union, 
above  the  inducements  that  now  exist.     It 
appears  to  me  that  that  question  and   fact 


would  remain  in  very  much  the  same  state  as 
at  present.  Honorable  gentlemen,  in  conclu- 
sion, I  would  say  that  I  have  thus  endeavored 
to  point  out  some  of  the  objections  to  the 
scheme  as  presented  that  have  occurred  to 
me.  We  have  all  a  common  interest  in  this 
matter.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  think  that  no  po- 
litical or  party  feeling  should  have  any  bear- 
ing upon  its  consideration,  and  if,  after  a  free 
and  full  discussion  of  its  merits  and  demerits, 
and  the  people  and  the  members  of  Parlia- 
ment come  to  fully  understand  the  question, 
it  is  found  that  it  is  going  to  be  an  advan- 
tage to  the  country,  I  will  certainly  give  it 
my  cheerful  support.  But  I  do  wish  to  have 
some  things  respecting  it  made  more  clear  to 
my  comprehension  than  they  are  at  present, 
and  it  is  for  these  reasons  that  I  have  taken 
up  the  time  of  the  House  in  making  these 
few  remarks.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  McMASTER  said— The  reso- 
lutions before  the  House  have  been  so  ably 
discussed  in  nearly  all  their  different  bearings, 
that  it  appears  to  me  that  but  little  can  be  ad- 
vanced on  either  side  in  addition  to  what  has 
been  already  said.  I  shall  therefore  only  oc- 
cupy the  time  of  the  House  for  a  very  few 
moments  in  explaining  my  reasons  for  the 
vote  I  intend  to  give  on  the  amendment  of 
the  honorable  member  for  Wellington.  When 
the  Confederation  of  the  provinces  was  first 
proposed,  I,  although  favorable  to  the  princi- 
ple of  the  scheme,  entertained  grave  doubts 
as  to  whether,  if  carried,  it  would  be  of  any 
real  benefit  to  that  section  of  the  country  in 
which  I  am  more  immediately  interested. 
Much,  however,  depended  upon  the  details, 
and  after  giving  them  a  good  deal  of  consid- 
eration, I  have  been  unable  to  come  to  the 
conclusion  that  the  scheme,  as  a  Avhole,  will 
be  a  remedy  for  all  the  evils  complained  of 
by  the  people  of  Upper  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  appropriations  to  be  made  annually  to 
the  local  legislatures  out  of  the  genera^  rev- 
enue I  regard  as  being  most  objectionable. 
(Hear,  hear.)  This,  I  believe  will  go  far  to 
neutralize  some  of  the  advantages  which 
would  have  resulted  from  the  scheme  had  the 
governments  of  the  different  provinces  been 
obliged  to  provide  for  all  expenditure  of  a 
strictly  local  character.  The  building  of  the 
Intercolonial  Ixailway  must  also  be  regarded 
as  a  very  questionable  part  of  the  project ; 
indeed  to  my  mind  it  is  the  most  objection- 
able of  the  whole.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  are 
told  by  honorable  gentlemen  that  the  abro- 
gation of  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  renders  this 
road   an  indispensable  necessity  in  order  to 


230 


secure  an  independent  outlet  to  the  sea-board ; 
but.  if  this  view  of  the  case  be  correct,  why- 
do  not  our  merchants  and  millers  forward 
their  produce  during  the  winter  months  to 
New  York,  Boston  or  Portland,  by  our  or 
any  of  the  other  different  railway  lines  which 
have  long  been  open  to  these  points  ?  The 
reason  is  obvious.  The  freight  by  railway  is 
so  expensive  that  they  find  it  to  be  for  their 
advantage  to  pay  interest,  storage  and  in- 
surance on  their  wheat  and  flour  until  the 
opening  of  the  naviijation.  And  if  they  do 
not  now  avail  themselves  of  the  shipping  ports 
referred  to,  neither  of  which  are  more  than 
six  hundred  miles  from  Toronto,  will  they 
send  their  produce  double  that  distance  over 
the  Intercolonial  road  to  Halifax?  Most  as- 
suredly not.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  the  Recipro- 
city Treaty  even  should  be  abrogated,  the 
great  bulk  of  our  produce  in  the  west  will 
will  then,  as  now,  continue  to  be  stored  at  the 
different  places  of  shipment  along  our  canals 
and  lakes  until  the  opening  of  navigation,  so 
that  whatever  may  be  said  in  favor  of  the 
Intercolonial  road  in  a  military  point  of  view, 
or  however  it  may  be  urged  as  a  necessity  in 
order  to  furnish  easy  and  convenient  inter- 
course between  the  provinces  in  the  event  of 
their  being  united,  I  hold  that  as  a  commer- 
cial speculation  it  will  prove  an  entire  failure, 
which  must  necessarily  add  greatly  to  our  al- 
ready large  unproductive  investments.  (Hear. ) 
And  how  the  honorable  gentleman  from 
Toronto  (Hon.  Mr.  Ross)  could  say  as  he 
did  the  other  day,  that  Upper  Canada  alone 
had  better  build  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
than  be  without  it,  is  what  I  cannot  compre- 
hend. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — I  say  so  acaiu. 

Hon.  Mr.  McMASTER— Well,  if  the 
h(»norahle  gentleman  would  resign  his  seat  and 
present  himself  to  any  constituency  west  of 
Kingston,  giving  the  views  he  has  enunciated 
about  this  railroad  a  prominent  place  in  his 
address  to  the  electors,  I  fear  this  House 
would  be  deprived  of  his  valuable  services. 
(Laughter.;  Tiie  change  propn.sed  in  the 
constitution  of  the  Legislative  (Jouneil,  by 
which  the  nominative  is  to  be  substituted  for 
the  elective  system,  I  earuiot  but  regard  as  ii 
retrograde  movement;  and  were  the  resolu- 
tions providing  change,  and  authorizing  the 
biiiMiiig  ol"  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  and  the 
aiinu.il  subsidy  to  the  dilferent  local  legislatures, 
submitted  separately,  and  under  ordinary  eir- 
euniittances,  I  uhould,  if  standing  alone  in  the 
House,  feel  it  to  bt;  my  duty  to  record  my 
vote  u^aintil  ihuui ;  but   when  viuwud  uu  part 


of  a  general  scheme,  embracing  other  provis- 
ions, which  may  have  an  important  bearing 
upon  the  future  interests,  the  peace  and  pros- 
perity of  the  province,  I  feel  bound  to  consider 
the  resolutions  in  that  spirit  of  compromise 
which  is  absolutely  necessary  in  framing  any 
measure  or  constitution  that  will  be  at  all 
likely  to  remedy  our  sectional  difficulties. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  need  hardly  remind  honor- 
able gentlemen  that  nothing  could  be  more 
unsatisfactory  than  the  state  of  our  public 
affairs  for  a  long  time  past.  The  Legislature 
has  been  called  together  year  after  year,  and  the 
usual  sessional  expenditure  incurred — which 
is  always  very  large — but  the  sectional  major- 
ities arrayed  against  eiich  other  in  the  other 
Chamber,  rendered  useful  legislation  almost,  if 
not  altogether,  impossible.  Whatever  govern- 
ment was  in  power  lived,  as  it  were,  by  the 
day,  and  being  eng:iged  in  a  constant  struggle 
for  existence,  the  very  natural  desire  to  ob- 
tain increased  sti-ength  frequently  led  to  the 
distribution  of  patronage  and  the  expenditure 
of  public  money  in  a  way  that  could  not  be 
justified.  All  admit  we  cannot  go  along  sis 
we  have  been  doing,  and  that  some  change  is 
necessary ;  and  in  the  absence  of  anything  bet- 
ter being  submitted,  I  feel  inclined  to  give  the 
scheme  proposed  a  trial,  believing  that  there 
are  reasonable  grounds  to  hope  that  the 
Constitution  which  is  to  be  based  on  the 
resolutions  before  the  House  will,  at  least  to 
some  extent,  remedy  those  sectional  difficul- 
ties which  have  operated  so  much  to  the  pre- 
judice of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  will 
secure  to  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  the  entire 
control  of  their  local  affairs,  which  I  regard  as 
being  of  the  utmost  importance.  It  will  put 
an  end  to  the  system  of  duplicating  in  one 
section  of  the  province  large  amounts  of  money 
granted  to  the  other  for  colonization  roads  and 
other  local  objects,  on  which  vjist  sums  have 
been  squandered.  It  will  secure  to  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada  representation  by  jxipulation 
in  that  branch  of  the  Federal  Legislature 
wliicli  controls  the  purse-strings.  It  will  also 
give  to  them  all  the  unsold  Crown  lands  in  the 
western  section  of  the  province.  And  I  trust 
the  promises  made  with  refereneo  to  the 
widening  and  doopfning  of  our  canals,  and  the 
opening  up  of  the  North- West  Territory  will 
bo  carried  out  in  good  faith.  (Hear,  liear.) 
Indeed  no  ( Jovernment  can  afford  to  treat  with 
entire  neglect  works  of  so  nuich  importanee  to 
I'pper  Canada,  and  at  the  same  time  incur  the 
large  expenditure  required  for  the  Intercolonial 
Railroad.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  [  look  at 
these   advantages,    and   think  of  the  uritical 


231 


position  in  which  the  province  is  now  placed, 
and  the  serious  consequences  that  might  pos- 
sibly follow,  should  the  Confederation  scheme 
be  rejected,  I  slirink  from  the  responsibility  of 
becoming  a  party  to  any  amendment  which 
may  have  the  effect  of  defeating  the  measure. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Holding  these  views,  and 
looking  upon  the  resolutions  of  the  Quebec 
Conference  in  the  light  of  a  treaty  entered 
into  by  five  provinces,  which  must  be  either 
approved  as  a  whole  or  rejected,  I  feel  that  in 
giving  them  my  support,  I  am,  all  things  con- 
sidered, acting  in  the  interest  of  the  province 
generally,  and  doing  whut  is  best  for  my  con- 
stituents.    (Cheers. ) 

Hon.  Mr.  SIi\JPSON  said— I  think  it 
was  said  by  a  wise  man  that  there  is  nothing 
new  under  the  sun.  But  had  Solomon 
the  scheme  now  before  the  House  presented 
to  him,  he  would  probably  have  changed  his 
opinion.  Possibly  nothing  new  can  be  said 
on  the  subject  of  representation  by  popula- 
tion, or  even  on  the  scheme  now  belore  the 
House  ;  but  representing,  as  I  do,  one  of  the 
largest  and  wealthiest  constituencies  in 
Upper  Canada,  I  think  it  necessary  for  me 
to  give  my  reasons  for  the  position  1  have 
felt  it  my  duty  to  take  in  reference  thereto. 
It  has  been  stated  that  the  elections  which 
have  lately  taken  place  have  gone  in  favor 
of  the  Government ;  but,  even  if  such  were 
the  case,  how  could  it  possibly  be  otherwi.*e, 
seeing  that  men  of  all  shades  of  polities  have 
united  in  forming  a  happy  family.  We  have 
seen  those  who  have  been  for  almost  a  life- 
time antagonistic  to  each  other  opening  their 
arms,  as  was  so  well  and  eloquently  depicted 
the  other  evening  by  the  honorable  member 
from  Montreal  (Hon.  Mr.  Ferrier),  and 
embracing  each  other ;  and  we  have  been 
led  to  irr.agine  that  the  millennium,  so  long 
predicted  and  anxiously  looked  for,  has, 
so  far  as  Canada  is  concerned  at  all  events, 
at  length  arrived.  (Laughter.)  We  are  to 
have  no  more  discord  and  no  more  strife,  but 
are  henceforth  to  live  in  harmony  the  one 
with  the  other.  It  has  been  asserted  that 
in  regard  to  myself  I  owe  my  return  withouf. 
opposition  to  the  fact  that  I  avowed  myself 
in  favor  of  the  Confederation  of  the  pro- 
vinces on  the  basis  submitted, 
correct.  I  held  no  meetings- 
speeches — and  in  no  instance 
what  were  my  views  in  regard  to  the  scheme ; 
and,  if  honorable  gentlemen  will  permit  me, 
I  will  read  a  portion  of  my  short  address  to 
the  electors.     It  is  as  follows  : — 


This  is  not 

—I  made  no 

was  I  asked 


You  will  reasonably  expect  me  to  give  my 
views  on  the  important  constUufional  changes 
that  are  now  contemplated.  No  one  at  all  ac- 
quainted with  the  effects  produced  upon  our  legis- 
gislation  and  on  the  general  prosperity  of  the 
country,  by  the  unhappy  sectional  difiiculties 
existing  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  but 
must  have  felt  that  some  remedy  should  be  found 
for  those  evils.  Whether  the  very  able  gentle- 
men who  have  so  strangely  united  to  solve  and 
remove  these  difBculties  will  be  able  to  accomplish 
their  praiseworthy  task,  time  alone  can  tell.  We 
need  the  details  before  being  able  to  pronounce 
an  opinion  ;  but  heartily  (and  I  hope  in  common 
with  every  well-wisher  of  their  country)  I  most 
earnestly  pray  that  they  may  succeed. 

It  will  bo  seen  that  here  I  simply  state 
that  the  gentlemen  who  had  so  strangely 
come  together  would  be  entitled  to  the  thanks 
of  the  country  if  they  were  able  to  agree 
upon  a  scheme  which  would  solve  the  ad- 
mitted difficulties  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  But  as  I  have  read  from  my 
address,  so  I  still  maintain  that,  before  we 
can  be  expected  to  express  an  intelligent 
opinion,  we  ought  not  simply  to  have  half  a 
scheme,  but  the  details  of  the  scheme  in  its 
entirety.  If  we  refer  to  the  election  in 
North  Ontario,  where  the  Honorable  Pro- 
vincial Secretary  had  been  the  representative, 
and  who  returned  for  re-election  after  accept- 
ing office  in  the  present  Grovernment,  we 
find  that  he  was  defeated  by  a  gentleman 
(Mr.  M.  C.  Cameron)  who  is  known  to  be 
an  opponent  to  the  project.  And  if  we  take 
the  more  recent  election  which  occurred  in 
South  Ontario,  we  find  the  contest  between 
two  gentlemen,  both  personal  friends  of  my 
own,  and  both  of  whom  were  favorable  to 
the  principle,  but  who  pledged  themselves 
that  before  it  became  an  accomplished  fact, 
it  should,  so  far  as  their  vote  would  extend, 
be  submitted  for  the  approval  of  the  people. 
And  I  would  be  greatly  deceived  if  the  gen- 
tleman who  has  now  the  honor  to  represent 
that  riding  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lature (Mr.  GiBBS)  sh^ll  be  found  support- 
ing the  scheme  unless  that  course  be  first 
taken.  We  need  the  details  before  it  is 
possible  that  we  can  pronounce  upon  the 
scheme  and  consider  it  on  its  merits. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— You  have  the  details. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIiMPSON— The  de.ails  are 
unfortunately  the  very  things  that  are  want- 
ing— they  are  the  marrow  of  the  whole 
aff"air.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  the  agitation 
for  representation  by  population  was  first 
started  in  Upper  Canada,  I  stated  that  I  had 
no   confidence  in  it  as  a  cure  for  the   evils 


232 


we  complained  of,  and  I  then,  and  have 
ever  since,  felt  that  it  would  be  better 
for  the  two  provinces  to  separate  than 
to  create  sectional  jealousies  and  strife  by 
the  demand  for  an  increased  representation, 
and  the  religious  cries  associated  with  it. 
For  my  part,  I  have  never,  like  some  honor- 
able gentlemen  of  this  House,  attended  and 
presided  over  that  kind  of  political  organi- 
zations known  as  conventions,  not  believing 
these  to  be  the  proper  means  of  redressing 
the  grievances  under  which  the  country 
labored.  The  effect  of  those  conventions 
was  to  add  fuel  to  the  agitation  which  was 
already  sundering  the  country.  That  such 
should  be  the  result  I  deeply  regret,  inasmuch 
as  some  of  the  dearest  friends  I  have  in  the 
world  are  not  only  Lower  Canadians,  but 
adherents  of  a  different  faith.  The  iruit 
of  this  sectional  hostility  and  discord  we  now 
see  in  the  demand  which  has  sprung  up  for 
Federation  with  all  its  concomitant  burdens. 
I  can  lay  no  blame  to  my  conscience  for 
having  assisted  to  bring  about  so  unnatural 
a  state  of  things,  and  whatever  may  be  the 
consequences  of  the  new  condition  of  politi- 
cal existence  towards  which  we  are  appa 
rently  drifting,  my  skirts,  I  rejoice  to  say, 
are  clear,  for  I  have  had  no  hand  or  part  in 
it.  We  are  told  that  if  this  scheme  is  car- 
ried out.  Upper  Canada  will  be  entitled  to  the 
great  advantage  of  having  in  the  House  of 
Commons  of  the  Federal  Government  17 
additional  members.  But  what  real  advan- 
tage is  this  to  be  to  the  countiy  ?  Do  we  desire 
17  additional  members  for  the  purpose  of 
crushing  Lower  Canada — is  that  what  is 
meant)'  I  answer,  no.  But  even  supposing  we 
have  17  additional  meuibers — supposing  re- 
presentation by  population  is  conceded  in  the 
new  order  of  things — wl.at  will  be  the  gain 
to  Upper  Canada  ?  Will  these  17  new 
members  cure  the  evils  of  which  we 
complain  '(  Will  they  be  able  to  reduce  the 
excessive  expenditures  under  which  we  are 
now  laboring,  and  which  have  been  one  of 
the  causes  of  the  agitatiuu  for  constitutional 
changes  '(  I  do  not  believe  a  word  of  it. 
Supposing  Upper  Canada  lias  a  larger  repre- 
sentation by  that  number  than  Lower 
Canada,  you  must  remember  that  Lower 
Canada,  with  the  eastern  provinces,  is  en- 
titled to  \\'2.  members  ;  so  that  Tppor 
Canada  would  still  be  in  a  large  minority  of 
the  whole  lIou«o.  iMy  houor^iblo  iriend  the 
ineniluT  for  Niagara  (lluu.  Mr.  CiniitlE)  hoH 
brouglit  before  the  House  a  number  of  valu- 


able statistics  bearing  on  this  question,  and 
I  must  say  I  deeply  regret  that  the  members 
of  the  Government  sitting  in  this  Chamber 
have  not  attempted  to  refute  them.  If 
these  figures  were  wrong,  they  were  easily 
susceptible  of  being  so  proved,  especially 
by  so  able  a  gentleman  as  the  Honorable 
Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands.  But  he  has 
not  attempted  the  task,  inasmuch  as  he 
knows  it  would  be  a  hopeless  one.  I  hold  in 
my  hands  a  statement  furnished  by  the 
Auditor  Genei  al  to  the  Minister  ot  Finance, 
from  which  it  appears  that  our  debt  amounts 
to  ^75,578,000,  and  deducting  .sinking  fund 
and  bankers'  balances,  87,L52,0'J0,  leaves 
a  balance  of  868,44li,000  as  the  actual  debt 
of  Canada,  to  be  borne  by  th«  people  of  this 
province  under  any  scheme  that  can  be  con- 
cocted. If  we  assume  that  the  cost  of  the 
International  Railway  will  be  820,000,000 
— and  from  the  experience  afforded  by  the 
Grand  Trunk  there  is  too  much  reason  to 
fear  it  will  be  double  that  amount — the  pro- 
portion which  Upper  Canada  would  have  to 
bear  would  be  $15,000,000,  and  this  added 
to  the  already  existing  debt,  would  make  our 
direct  debt  8^3,446,000.  This  increase  in 
our  debt  will  be  one  of  the  fruits  of  Con- 
federation. But  it  maybe  said  that  the  road 
will  yield  a  revenue,  though  every  member 
of  the  House  who  knows  anything  of  rail- 
Vid.y  statistics,  and  the  character  of  the  coun- 
try to  be  traversed  by  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way, must  know  that  this  is  impossible. 
My  honorable  friend  from  Toronto  (Hon. 
Mr.  Ross)  when  he  issued  his  flaming  pro- 
spectus to  the  capitalists  of  ilngland  fondly 
hoped  that  the  Grand  Trunk  would  pay  IH 
per  cent,  on  the  investment.  But  we  know 
how  these  expectations  have  been  disap- 
pointed by  the  actual  result,  and  so  far  from 
there  being  grounds  to  hope  that  the  Inter 
colonial  Railway  will  occupy  a  better  position, 
there  is  too  much  reason  to  fear  that  it  will 
be  still  worse.  Why,  the  cost  of  ita  main- 
tenance could  hardly  be  less  than  8500,000 
per  annum  beyond  all  its  receipts.  How 
then  could  such  a  work  be  considered  to  be 
of  benefit  to  the  country  ? 

Hon.  Mu.  ROSS — In  the  same  way  as  the 
canals — by  cheapening  the  cost  of  transport- 
ation. 

Hon.  Mr.  SLMl'SON— This  is  impossible. 
It  costs  two  cents  per  ton  per  mile  to  move 
freight  by  rail,  and  as  the  distance  from  To- 
ronto to  Halifax  is  11('»8  miles,  it  would  cost 
82. 2y  per  barrel  to  move  flour  from  Toronto 


233 


to  that  port ;  while  a  barrel  of  flour  can  now 
be  sent  vid  the  St.  Lawrence  at  50  cents  or 
under,  and  via  New  York  at  53  cents.  Tak- 
ing another  view  of  the  scheme,  in  its  finan- 
cial aspect,  we  find  that  Canada  now  con- 
tributes, in  all  f 'rms,  to  the  support  of  the 
General  Government,  over  $10,000,000  per 
annum.  No  one  will  say  that  wo  shall  be 
called  upon  to  contribute  less  under  Confed- 
eration. And  if  we  add  to  this  sum  the  in- 
terest, at  five  per  cent., on  the  additional  debt 
of  ^15,000,000  created  by  the  proposed  rail- 
way and  the  expense  of  two  local  govern- 
ments, assuming  them  to  cost  $1,000,000 
each,  which  is  below  the  mark,  with  $1,000,- 
000  to  be  expended  annually  on  the  militia, 
as  well  as  our  share  of  maintaining  and  run- 
ning the  railway,  we  will  find  that  the  people 
of  the  two  Canadas  will  be  called  upon  to 
contribute  $14,200,000  annually,  instead  of 
the  $10,000,000,  as  at  present.  And  I  would 
ask  honorable  gentlemen  if  the  countrv  is  in 
a  position  to  bear  this  additional  burden  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)  Keally,  looking  at  the  ques- 
tion of  expense,  I  am  not  sure  whether  I 
would  not  be  in  favor  of  returning  to  the 
primitive  system  of  administering  the  aff"airs 
of  the  country — in  preference  to  having  this 
scheme — by  a  Governor  in  Council.  (Laugh- 
ter.) For  there  is  no  question  that  our  an- 
nual expenditure  will  be,  under  Confedera- 
tion, at  least  many  millions  more  than  at 
present,  with  the  cost  added  thereto  of  main- 
taining and  running  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way— a  work  which  can  never  pay. 

Hon,  Mr.  FERRIER— It  was  predicted 
when  it  was  proposed  to  build  the  Rivifere 
du  Loup  section  of  the  Grand  Trunk  that  it 
would  never  pay,  but  the  fact  is  that  for  the 
last  two  years  it  has  not  only  paid  expenses, 
but  has  given  a  profit. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— I  should  not  con- 
tradict the  honorable  gentleman,  because  he 
knows  more  about  Grand  Trunk  matters 
than  I  do,  or  most  other  people ;  but  my  late 
respected  friend,  Mr.  Freer,  who  was  the 
lessee  of  that  section  during  two  or  three 
years,  told  me  that,  while  receiving  a  subsidy 
of  $18,000  per  annum  for  running  it,  with 
the  free  use  of  four  engines,  and  with  a 
suitable  equipment  of  rolling  stock,  it  would 
have  ruined  him  had  he  continued  to  work 
the  line  even  on  those  apparently  favorable 
terms. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER — It  is  perhaps  use- 
less for  me  to  say  anything  more,  as  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  will  not  believe  what  I  say 

31 


— (Hon.  Mr.  Simpson — Hear,  hear) — but 
all  I  can  state  is,  that  a  premium  was  offered 
for  the  lease  of  the  line,  but  the  company 
determined  to  take  possession  of  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— But  the  real  ques- 
tion is,  what  was  the  cost  of  original  con- 
struction, the  interest  on  that  amount,  and 
th  3  cost  of  maintenance  ?  Take  these  charges 
into  account,  and  it  would  require  a  pretty 
large  rental  to  cover  them,  much  larger,  I 
think,  than  any  responsible  person  would 
offer  for  a  lease  of  the  line.  As  to  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway,  we  have  no  information 
from  the  government  respecting  the  route 
to  be  followed  or  the  length  or  cost  of  the 
road  ;  but  from  figures  I  have  been  able  to 
obtain,  the  following  may  be  taken  to  be 
nearly  correct : — 

Miles      To  be 
built.       buUt. 

Frora.  Halifax  to  Truro   65 

. .     Truro  to  Shediac 90 

..     Shediac  to  St.  John 108 

. .     St.     John   to    St.    Andrews 

(under  contract) 75 

.  .     St.  Andrews  to  Woodstock..    50 

..     Woodstock  to  Rivier  du  Loup   ..       160 

223       325 

The  total  length  of  road  from  Riviere  du 
Loup  is  548  miles;  add  from  Riviere  du 
Loup  to  Quebec,  120  miles;  Quebec  to  Mont- 
real, 170  miles;  Montreal  to  Toronto,  about 
330  miles  ;  so  that  we  have  a  total  of  1,1G8 
miles  over  which  it  is  gravely  proposed  to 
send  flour  and  other  heavy  produce  during 
the  winter  months.  (Hear,  hear.)  As  has 
been  already  stated,  before  a  barrel  of  flour 
could  reach  Halifax  from  Toronto,  it  would 
be  nearly  eaten  up  in  expenses.  [An  honor- 
able member — There  would  be  nothing- 
left  but  the  hoops.  (Laughter). J  It  has 
been  urged  that  under  Confederation  an 
active  trade  would  spring  up  between  Canada 
and  the  Maritime  Provinces.  A  trade  in 
what?  What  have  we  to  send  them  ex- 
cepting flour  and  the  coarser  grains  ?  The 
former,  as  has  been  shown,  cannot  be  sent, 
and  the  latter  they  do  not  require.  The 
principal  articles  of  export  from  the  Lower 
Provinces  are  fish,  timber  and  ships.  We 
can  take  a  moderate  quantity  of  fish ;  but 
our  forests  supply  us  with  an  abundance  of 
timber,  and  the  ship  yards  of  Quebec  turn 
out  some  of  the  finest  sailing  ships  in  the 
world.  The  true  markets  for  the  principal 
staples  of  export  for  these  provinces  are 
New  York  and  Boston.     Small  vessels  from 


234 


thirty  to  fifty  tons,  laden  with  fish,  run  from 
the    Maritime    Provinces     to    these    ports, 
where   they   dispose  of    their  cargoes  and 
purchase  with  the  proceeds,  corn  meal,  flour, 
pork,  molasses  and  other  necessaries.     But 
it  has  been  left  for  3ur  Canadian  statesmen 
to  propose  new  political  alliances  in    order 
to   divert  trade  and    commerce  from   their 
natural  channels.     It  is  yet  further  said  in 
favor  of  Confederaticn  that  it  will   increase 
our  power  of  defence.     In  the  ordinary  ac- 
ceptance of  the  term,  union  undoubtedly  is 
strength ;    but    there   are   cases  in   which 
union,  instead  of  being  a  source  of  strength, 
is  in  reality  an  element  of  weakness.     If  we 
could  attach  the  territory  possessed  by  the 
moon  to  these  provinces,  and  obtain  the  as- 
sistance for  our  joint  defence  of  the   man 
who  is  popularly   suppo.-^cd  to  inhabit  that 
luminary,  we  might   derive   strength   from 
the    Confederation.     (Laughter.)     But    al- 
though John  Bull  is  accused  of  doing  many 
foolish   things,   I   am   persuaded   that   the 
Mother  Country  is   far  too  wise  to  entrust 
the  lives  of  her  valuable  soldiers  when  sent 
to  our  defence — as  in  case  of  need  I  feel 
well  assured  they  would  be — in  passing  over 
a  road  so  liable  to  attack    and   so   easy   of 
destruction  by  our  neighbors  on  the   other 
side,  should  we  unfortunately  ever  become 
involved  with  them  in  war,  which  I  sincerely 
pray  may  never  occur.     (Hear,  hear.)     In 
conclusion  I  have  simply  to  say  that  I  cannot 
possibly    vote   for   the   scheme   before   the 
House,  and  thereby  deprive  the  wealthy  and 
intelligent  freemen,  who  have  twice  elected 
mo  unanimously,  of  a  Constitution  obtained 
by  long  years  of  struggle,  without  knowing 
what  wo  have  to  offer    them   in   its    stead. 
(Cheers.) 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Before  the 
question  is  put,  I  have  a  few  remarks  to  make 
on  the  general  question,  and  particularly  on 
the  motion  of  amendment  which  is  now  before 
the  Hou.se.  I  have  copious  notes  which  I 
will  not  refer  to  now,  but  which  I  will  make 
use  of  at  another  stage  of  the  debate.  Ques- 
tions have  been  put  to  me  by  several  members, 
which  I  will  answer  in  due  season ;  and  ex- 
planations have  been  a.skcd,  which  I  hope  also 
to  be  able  to  give.  But,  at  present,  my  object 
is  merely  to  make  a  few  remarks  in  reference 
to  the  amendment  which  has  been  brought 
forward  by  my  honorable  IViend  IVoin  Wel- 
lington (lion.  3Ir.  S.v.nhou.n^.  When  tlu- 
gentlemen  who  composed  the  Conference  met, 
they  had  to  lay  down  a  broad  basis,  us  it  were, 


for   the   foundation   of  their   superstructure. 
Well,  it  so  happened   that  the    comer-stone 
was  that  which  concerned  the  representation 
in  both  Houses.     It  was  agreed  on  the  one 
hand  that  in  the  House  of  Commons  of  the 
Confederate  Government  representation  should 
be  according  to  numbers,  and  that  in  the  other 
branch  of  the  Legislature  it  should  be  fixed 
that  this  representation  should  be  equal  for  all 
the  provinces — that  is  to  say,  tapper  Canada, 
and  Lower  Canada,  and  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces,  grouped    into  one,   should    each   be 
allowed  to  send  the  same  number  of  represen- 
tatives, so  as  to  secure  to  each  province  its 
rights,  its  privileges,  and  its  liberties.     We 
acted  upon  this  principle,  because  we  felt  that 
if  the  House  of  Commons'  representation  was 
based   upon   population,    equality   should  be 
secured  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature. 
My   honorable   friend   from   Wellington   has 
gone  over  almost  every  detail  of  the  scheme  of " 
Federation,  and  he  thought  also  he  would  try 
his  hand  a  little  at  constitution-making,   by 
improving   that    part   which    has   particular 
reference  to  the  Legislative  Council.     Well, 
honorable  gentlemen,   I  think  the  saying  is 
pretty  correct  that  it  is  easy  to  find  fault,  but 
it  is  not  so  easy  to  do  better.     (Hear,  hear.) 
The  honorable  gentleman  no  doubt  thought 
in  his  own  mind  that  he  was  going  to  improve 
the  scheme  of  the  Conference,  but  I  think  he 
has  made  it  so  bad  that  I  believe  I  can  shew 
in  the  course  of  the  few  observations  I  have 
to  offer,  even  if  we  had  the  power  to  make  a- 
mendments,  no  member  of  this  House  either 
from  Upper  or  Lower  Canada  would  consent  to 
them  for  a  moment.    I  have  just  said  the  agree- 
ment was  that  there  should  be  equality  in  the 
representation    in    the    Legislative    Council. 
But  the  honorable  gentleman  has  moved  that 
the  elective  members  as  they  now  stand  should 
form  the  Legislative  Council   in  the  Federal 
Government,  and  that  also  the  life  members 
should   continue   for  the   remainder  of  their 
days;  and,  as  a  set-oft'  against  the  life  mem- 
bers, he  proposes  to  allow  the  other  provinces 
a  certain  number  of  new  members  who  .should 
have  the  right  to  sit  in  the  Legislative  Coum-il 
of  the  Federal  Government.     But  what  does 
he  do?     Does  he  preserve  the  proportion  as 
laid   down  at  the  Convention  ?     Not  a  bit  of 
it.     The  proportion  agreed  upon  at  the  Con- 
vention   was  one-third  to  the    Maritime  Pro- 
vinces ;   the  Lower  l*rovincos  grouped  together 
had  a  riglit  to  send  one-third  of  tlie  repre-sen- 
tatives.     The  honorable  gentleman,  however, 
I  suppose  out  of  the  fulness  of  his  good  di«- 


235 


position — I  am  sure  it  was  not  pressed  upon 
him  by  the  delegates  from  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces— comes  forward  and  says,  "  I  will  give 
you  ten  members  as  a  set-off  against  the 
twenty-one  members  who  are  now  members 
for  life  in  the  Canadian  Legislative  Council." 
If  I  am  not  wrong  in  my  arithmetic,  ten  are 
not  a  third  of  twenty-one.  If  the  honorable 
gentleman  had  given  seven  members  to  the 
Lower  Provinces  as  a  set-off  against  the  life 
memL'ers  of  this  House  he  would  have  acted 
with  strict  justice,  but  he  is  generous  enough 
to  give  them  three  more — ten,  or  nearly  one 
half. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— Ten  are  nearer 
one-third  than  the  seven  you  propose. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  — I  think  the 
honorable  gtentleman  is  wrong  in  his  calcula- 
tion. I  say  we  have  21  members  sitting  here 
for  life,  and  if  the  other  provinces  are  entitled 
to  one-third  of  that  number,  it  is  clear  to  my 
mind  that  they  would  have  a  right  to  no 
more  than  seven.  (Cries  of  "no,  no,"  and 
^'  yes,  yes.") 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— They  are  entitled 
to  a  third  of  the  whole.  Do  you  refer  to  the 
elective  members  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— The  elective 
members  are  a  fact  accomplished.  On  the 
elective  principle  it  is  proposed  to  give  a  third 
of  the  members  of  the  Legislative  Council  of 
the  Federal  Government  to  the  Maritime 
Provinces.  But  there  are  twenty-one  life 
members  of  this  House,  and  you  want  to  give 
the  Maritime  Provinces  an  equivalent  for 
them. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— But  not  one-half. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE —You  should 
only  give  them  seven. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN— No,  ten. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  —We  will  have 
to  get  a  schoolmaster.  (Laughter.)  If  seven 
is  not  a  third  of  twenty-one,  I  do  not  know 
what  a  third  is.  (Laughter.)  I  am  not 
very  fluent  in  speaking  the  English  language, 
and  when  I  am  met  right  and  left,  behind 
and  before,  with  interruptions  like  this,  I 
assure  you  I  feel  it  a  hard  trial,  and  if  hon- 
orable gentlemen  have  remarks  to  make,  I 
trust  they  will  wait  until  I  have  delivered 
mine.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, admitting  that  the  third  of  twenty- 
one  are  not  seven — (laughter) — I  say  admit- 
ting, for  the  sake  of  argument,  that  ten  are 
the  third  of  twenty-one — (laughter) — I  have 
another  objection,  and  a  very  serious  objection, 
which  I  do  not  think  will  advance  very  much 
the  case  of  the  honorable  gentleman  who  has 


moved  this  amendment.  Many  of  us  have 
been  appointed  for  life  in  this  House,  and 
some  of  us  were  so  appointed  many  years 
back.  Here,  for  instance,  is  my  honorable 
friend  on  the  left  (Hon.  Mr.  Hamilton) 
who  has  been  a  member  of  the  House  some 
twenty-four  years — who  was  among  the  first 
appointed  by  Lord  Sydenham  ;  and  I  see 
on  the  other  side,  honorable  gentlemen  also 
far  advanced  in  years — men  who,  in  the  or- 
dinary course  of  life,  cannot  expect  to  be  very 
long  with  us.  Will  the  honorable  gentleman 
propose  to  give  to  the  provinces  below  the 
right  to  appoint  old  gentlemen  ?  Not  a  bit  of 
it.  They  would  send  here  young  men — men 
who  are  in  the  prime  of  life — and  when  we 
shall  have  gone  to  our  last  home,  these 
young  men  from  below  will  be  found  sitting 
in  your  places  and  in  my  place.  Where, 
then,  would  be  the  equilibrium  ?  The  equi- 
librium would  be  lost,  and  lost  for  ever. 
(Hear,  hear.)  And  the  honorable  gentleman 
thinks  that  his  amendment  would  be  a  great 
improvement  to  the  scheme  of  the  Conference. 
Well,  for  my  part,  honorable  gentlemen,  I 
believe  it  is  a  great  failure  in  the  way  of  im- 
proving the  scheme  of  the  Confederation — 
a  very  great  failure  indeed.  The  honorable 
gentleman  has  had  the  opportunity  of  speak- 
ing several  times  in  this  House,  and  very 
often  he  has  made  allusion  to  me  since  the 
opening  of  Parliament.  He  has  endeavored 
to  place  me  in  contradiction  to  myself.  He 
has  stated  that,  in  1856,  I  was  a  member  of 
the  Government  conducting  the  affairs  of  the 
House,  and  that  I  was  the  party  who  brought 
in  the  measure  to  extend  the  elective  princi- 
ple to  this  honorable  House,  and  he  says  that 
I  am  here  again,  nine  years  later,  endeavoring 
to  destroy  that  which  I  had  a  hand  in  erect- 
ing so  long  ago  as  I  have  stated.  But,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  I  think  that  when  I  shall 
have  explained  the  circumstances  which  then 
forced  the  Government  to  bring  forward  the 
measure  to  render  this  House  elective,  you 
will  agree  with  me  that  it  was  not  on  account 
of  any  fancy  or  predilection  on  their  part  that 
the  elective  system  was  proposed,  but  that  it 
was  necessitated  by  the  circumstances  in 
which  the  country  found  itself  placed.  It  is 
from  no  levity  in  the  minds  of  the  members 
of  the  Government,  or  in  my  own  mind;  nor 
is  there  any  inconsistency  in  what  I  then  did 
and  in  what  I  am  now  doing.  But  we  will 
have  something  more  on  that  point  in  the 
course  of  a  few  moments.  The  honorable 
gentleman,  the  other  day,  said  we  ought  to 
speak   freely   on   this   subject,   the   measure 


236 


beinpj  one  of  very  great  importance.  He  did 
speak  freely  himself,  and  gave  expression  to 
the  fear  that  the  Protestant  English  element 
of  Lower  Canada  would  be  in  danger  if  this 
measure  should  pass.  He  said  as  much  as 
this,  that  in  the  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada 
acts  might  be  passed  whicli  would  deprive 
religious  educational  institutions  there  of 
their  rights,  and  even  of  their  property. 
Another  honorable  gentleman,  who  spoke  yes- 
terday, also  gave  expression  to  the  fear  that 
vested  rights  and  privileges  might  be  wrested 
from  the  hands  of  the  English-speaking  popu- 
lation of  Lower  Canada — that  there  was  no- 
thing secure  to  them  under  the  new  Constitu- 
tion. Well,  the  honorable  gentlemen  who 
could  see,  in  the  future,  such  dreadful  conse- 
quences flowing  from  this  union,  and  who 
make  such  sinister  predictions,  must  make 
them  upon  some  data.  But  I  would  ask  hon- 
orable gentlemen  if  since  1791,  when  the 
Constitution  was  given  to  Lower  Canada, 
there  is,  in  all  the  records  of  the  Legislature 
of  Lower  Canada,  a  single  act  to  be  found  in 
which  it  can  be  shown  that  the  Lower  Canadians 
— the  Papistsof  Lower  Canada — everattempt- 
ed  to  commit  a  single  injustice  towards  their  fel- 
low subjects  of  English  origin  professing  the 
Protestant  religion  ?  I  say,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, that  the  act  is  not  to  be  found.  fJut 
acts  of  generosity,  acts  of  liberality,  acts  of 
tolerance  are  to  be  found  everywhere.  (Hear, 
hear.)  When  you  predict  things  of  the  future 
you  ought  to  have  at  least  an  inch  of  ground 
to  stand  upon.  You  ought  to  be  able  to  say 
that  at  such  and  such  a  time  you  did  such 
and  such  unlawful  acts.  But  I  defy  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  to  point  to  one  such  act. 
(Hear,  iicar.)  As  it  was  well  asked  by  my 
honorable  friend.  Sir  Naucisse  F.  Belleau, 
who  was  it  that  emancipated  the  Jews  in 
1808,  much  earlier  than  they  were  emanci- 
pated in  England  ?  Why,  a  Lower  Canada 
House  of  Assembly.  Who  gave  Protestant 
di.ssenters  tlie  riglit  to  keep  records  of  mar- 
riages and  burials?  Well,  it  was  a  Prcnch 
Canadian  —  a  Papist  —  House  of  Assembly. 
And  that  House  had  a  great  deal  of  difiiculty, 
and  why  ?  Because  they  were  opposed  in 
the  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada  by  the 
Protestant  English  minority. 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBOllN— Not  by  an  elec- 
tive majority. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  V.  TACHE— I'erhaps  it  is 
well  that  we  liave  now  responsible  government, 
because  responsible  government  is  a  cure  for 
many  evils.  Well,  tiie  bill  to  give  Protestant 
dissenters  in  liOwer  Canada  certain  rights  was 


opposed  again  and  again  in  the  Legislative 
Council  of  Lower  Canada,  and  opposed  by 
Ensrlish  Protestants.  But  this  was  no  less  a 
proof  of  the  liberality  of  the  French  Cana- 
dians. (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  gentle- 
man behind  me  is  not  at  all  satisfied  with  the 
electoral  divisions  as  they  stand  in  Lower 
Canada.  He  says  there  is  no  security  what- 
ever afforded  by  them  to  the  Protestant  com- 
munity. But  I  wish  that  honorable  gen- 
tleman had  taken  the  trouble  to  look  a  little 
into  the  facts  upon  which  he  had  based  his 
conclusions  in  regard  to  these  very  electoral 
divisions.  Honorable  gentlemen,  I  feel  warm 
on  this  subject.  And  why  ?  Because  the 
limits  of  the  counties  in  Lower  Canada  were 
devised  by  one  of  the  most  intelligent,  upright 
and  liberal  men  it  has  ever  been  my  fortune 
to  meet  witli.  If  a  model  of  human  per- 
fection can  be  found  in  Canada,  it  must  be 
in  the  person  of  the  honorable  Judge  MoRlN. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Before  laying  his  project  be- 
fore the  Executive  Council,  that  gentleman 
did  me  the  honor  to  consult  me  in  the  matter, 
and  on  two  occasions  I  attended  by  appoint- 
ment at  his  office  to  advise  with  him  on  the 
details  of  his  scheme.  The  divisions  of  the 
other  branch  of  the  Legi-slature  were  worked 
out  so  as  to  give  our  Protestant  English  fel- 
low subjects  everything  which  could  be  con- 
sidered fair  in  every  sense  of  the  word.  I 
say  also  that  the  same  spirit  was  manifested 
in  regard  to  the  working  out  of  the  divisions 
of  the  Legislative  Council.  I  assisted  to 
work  them  out  in  conjunction  with  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Cauciion,  and  I  do  assert  here  most 
solemnly  that  our  whole  trouble  and  study 
was  to  try  and  devise  some  moans  so  as  to 
give  the  English  portion  of  the  community 
of  Lower  Canada  something  like  fair  play. 
And  when  T  am  conscious  of  having  done 
these  things,  I  feel  it  comes  hard  on  me  to  hear 
honorable  gentlemen  say  that  there  is  no  se- 
curity for  them  in  the  future,  but  that  the 
French — the  Papists — may  do  anything  they 
choose  in  the  lower  branch  of  the  Legislature. 
But,  honorable  gentlemen,  if  the  lower  branch 
of  the  JiOgislature  were  ini^onsato  enough  and 
wicked  enough  to  commit  .><omo  llagrant  act  of 
injustice  against  the  English  Protestant  por- 
tion of  the  commuiiity,  thoy  V'ould  be  chocked 
by  tiio  (Joiioral  Ciovornment.  But  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  argues  that  that  would  raise 
an  issue  botwoen  the  local  and  the  general 
governments.  We  must  not,  however,  for- 
got that  tlie  General  (.Jovornmont  is  composed 
of  representatives  from  all  portions  of  tho 
country — that  they  would  not  bo  likely  to 


237 


35= 


commit  an  unjust  act — and  that  if  they  did 
so  they  would  be  met  by  such  a  storm  of 
opposition  as  would  sweep  them  out  of  their 
places  in  a  very  short  time  But.  honorable 
gentlemen,  to  come  back  to  the  electoral  di- 
visions.— I  wish  to  look  at  them  a  little  more 
closely,  to  show  the  results  already  produced. 
I  will  be  obliged  to  make  a  comparison,  but 
believe  me,  I  do  not  wish  to  make  invidious 
comparisons.  When,  however,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen complain  that  they  have  no  guarantee 
for  the  preservation  of  their  rights  and  liber- 
ties, I  act  on  the  suggestion  of  the  honorable 
gentleman  and  speak  my  mind  freely.  Xow, 
how  does  the  population  of  both  Canadas 
stand  in  reference  to  religious  creeds  ?  We 
have  in  Upper  Canada  1,396,090  souls,  ac- 
cording to  the  last  census,  and  of  that  num- 
bftr  there  are  258,141  Roman  Catholics.  I 
should  like  to  know  how  many  Roman  Catho- 
lic representatives  these  258,000  Roman  Ca- 
tholics return  to  this  House  ?  I  don't  know 
one.  I  say  that  there  are  258,000  Roman 
Catholics  in  Upper  Canada  who  are  not  rep- 
resented by  one  of  their  own  faith  on  the 
floor  of  this  House  —  except,  indeed,  there 
are  those  of  the  Roman  Catholic  faith  of 
whom  I  am  not  aware.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CRAWFORD  was  understood 
to  say  in  a  jocose  way  that  he  was  a  Catholic. 
(Laushter.) 

Hon.  SirE.P.  TACHE  said— ^'o;  you 
are  an  Orangeman — we  have  shaken  hands 
together  already,  and  I  hope  we  may  shake 
hands  agiin,  but  when  the  honorable  gentle- 
man  says  he  is  a  Catholic,  I  fancy  he  must  be 
joking.  (Laughter.)  I  wish,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, for  you  to  pay  a  little  attention  to 
what  I  am  saying,  because  it  is  facts  that 
always  tell.  A  tree  is  known  by  its  fruits,  and 
it  is  the  fruit  I  wish  to  place  before  this  House 
and  before  the  country.  The  total  population 
in  Lower  Canada  at  the  last  census  was 
1,110,000,  and  of  these  9-42, T2-4  were  Roman 
Catholics,  leaving  of  all  other  religious  per- 
suasions, know-nothings,  if  any  there  are, 
heathens  and  other  unbelievers,  167,910. 
That  is  to  say,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  the 
Protestants  in  Lower  Canada  are  less  in  num- 
ber than  the  Catholics  in  Upper  Canada,  by 
91,201.  Here,  then,  we  have  Protestants  in 
Lower  Canada  to  the  number  of  167,000,  and 
the  question  arises  how  arc  they  represented 
in  this  House  ?  Well,  they  are  represented 
'by  three  members ;  besides,  there  are  two  other 
honorable  gentlemen  from  Lower  Canada  who 
have  English  names,  but  I  really  do  not  know 
whether  they  are  Protestants  or  Catholics,     I 


do  however  know,  as  I  before  stated,  that 
there  are  three  honorable  gentlemen,  Protes- 
tants, representing  in  this  Council  the  167,000 
Protestants  of  Lower  Canada.  The  honor- 
able gentleman  by  my  side,  who  has  moved 
these  amendments,  is  one  of  them ;  an  honor- 
able gentleman  who  sits  opposite  to  me  is 
another,  and  an  honorable  gentleman  who  sits 
behind  me,  is  the  third  ;  and  there  are  two 
other  honorable  gentlemen  with  English  names 
whom  I  do  not  know  whether  to  classify  as 
Protestants  or  Catholics.  I  therefore  say  that 
in  comparing  the  representation  of  the  two 
sections  of  the  province,  the  hon.  gentleman 
has  no  cause  to  complain.  I  have  ever 
labored  to  secure  to  my  fellow  subjects  of 
English  origin,  of  the  Protestant  faith,  in 
Lower  Canada,  their  rights  and  their  liber- 
ties ;  and  that  my  labors  have  not  been  in  vain 
is  proved  by  the  fruits  I  have  adduced.  But 
that  is  not  all. 

Hon.  Mr.  MOORE— There  are  five  Pro- 
testants in  this  House  from  Lower  Canada. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— But  they  are  not 
all  elective. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— I  speak  of  the 
elective  members,  because  the  argument  has 
reference  to  the  electoral  divisions.  Now  let 
us  look  at  the  other  branch  of  the  Legisla- 
ture ;  and  I  assert  that  the  principle  has 
worked  equally  well  there.  There  are  258,000 
Roman  Catholics  in  Upper  Canada  represented 
in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature  by  only 
two  Roman  CathoUcs,  and  one  of  these,  I  am 
told,  like  my  honorable  friend  opposite  who 
has  avowed  himself  a  Roman  Catholic,  never 
goes  to  mass.  (Laughter.)  He  is,  however, 
a  good  Catholic,  because  he  has  an  accom- 
plished and  charming  wife  and  most  beautiful 
daughters,  the  whole  of  whom  are  zealous 
Christians  and  good  Catholics,  who  go  to 
church  and  confess  regularly  ;  so  that  I  am 
bound  to  take  the  head  of  the  family  as  a 
good  Catholic  also.  (Laughter.)  Then,  how 
does  the  case  stand  for  the  Protestants  in 
Lower  Canada  ?  In  Upper  Canada  we  have 
just  seen  that  258,000  Catholics  are  repre- 
sented by  just  two  members  of  their  own  faith 
in  the  lower  branch  of  the  Legislature. 
How  are  the  160,000  Protestants  in  Lower 
Canada  represented  ?  Well,  honorable  gentle- 
men, they  are  represented  by  no  less  than  14 
members.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  is  to  say 
more  by  fifty  per  cent,  than  they  would  be 
entitled  to  according  to  strict  rule  of  three. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  would  ask  are  all  these 
things  mere  matters  of  accident  ?  Is  it 
chance  or  Dame  Fortune  that  brings    about 


238 


all  these  things  ?  I  believe  not.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Causes  invariably  produce  effects ;  and  they 
are  the  effects  mainly — I  do  not  say  entirely — 
of  the  pains  we  have  taken  to  give  our  fellow- 
subjects  of  English  origin  the  whole  of  their 
rights  and  fair  play  in  every  respect.  The 
rest  is  due  to  French  Canadian  liberality. 
After  stating  these  facts,  I  really  do  not  think 
the  honorable  gentleman  who  represents  the 
division  of  Wellington  has  much  cause  to 
complain.  We  judge  of  the  tree  by  its  fruit, 
and  the  fruit  I  have  endeavored  to  place  be- 
fore you.  If  I  have  made  any  mistakes  in 
my  facts,  I  am  ready  to  be  corrected.  But 
besides  these  14  gentlemen  representing  the 
Protestant  element  in  Lower  Canada  in  the 
other  branch  of  Legislature,  I  find  three  other 
English  names,  but  whether  they  are  Catho- 
lics or  Protestants  I  cannot  say,  and  therefore, 
not  being  certain  of  their  creed,  I  have  classed 
them  as  doubtful ;  but  added  to  the  14,  they 
would  make  the  number  17.  I  think  all  this 
is  pretty  good  proof  of  the  liberality  and  the 
spirit  of  justice  of  the  Lower  Canadians  ;  and 
if  they  have  acted  so  for  three  quarters  of  a 
century,  how  is  it  to  be  supposed,  now  that 
they  are  about  to  form  the  majority  again  in 
the  Lower  Canada  Legislature,  they  will  all  at 
once  change  their  mode  of  acting,  and  become 
ready  to  tyrannize  over  and  commit  acts  of 
injustice  on  their  fellow-subjects  of  English 
origin  in  Lower  Canada  ?  I  do  not  believe 
it.  I  do  not  believe  there  is  such  a  thing  as 
vandalism  in  their  minds,  and  I  believe  they 
are  as  ready  as  ever  to  render  equal  and  im- 
partial justice  to  their  fellow-men  and  fellow- 
subjects.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  must  now  pass 
to  another  portion  of  my  remarks.  Honorable 
gentlemen  say  I  was  inconsistent  in  that  at 
one  time  I  erected  a  monument,  and  since  then 
I  have  been  trying  to  pull  it  down.  Well, 
honorable  gentlemen,  to  understand  how  we 
stood  in  1856  it  is  necessary  we  should  take 
the  history  of  the  Legislative  Council  a  little 
further  back — from  the  time  of  its  formation 
immediately  after  the  union.  We  had  not 
responsible  government  at  the  time  of  the 
union,  but  then  it  was  that  the  whole  system 
was  put  in  practice.  The  first  batch  of  coun- 
cillors were  appointed  in  1841,  and  were  25 
in  number ;  but  two  of  them  never  attended. 
Out  of  thcic  25  there  were  18  conservatives 
and  five  reformers.  In  1842  seven  new 
councillors  were  added,  five  conservatives  and 
two  reformers.  In  1843  the  Government 
changed,  and  the  change  made  a  little  differ- 
ence in  the  political  bearing  of  the  appoint- 
ments, so  that  in  1843,  there  wore  appointed 


one  conservative  and  five  reformers.  In  1844- 
45  there  were  two  appointments — two  re- 
formers. In  1 846  there  was  one  conservative. 
In  1847  there  were  four  conservatives.  There- 
fore, in  1848,  when  the  Liberal  Government 
came  into  power — the  Lafontaine-Baldwin 
Administration — the  fact  was  that  their  parti- 
sans in  the  Legislative  Council  were  fifteen 
less  than  the  opposite  party.  (Hear,  hear.) 
What  were  the  Kcform  Government  to  do  ? 
They  were  forced  to  appoint  a  large  batch 
this  time.  They  appointed  no  less  than 
twelve  gentlemen.  But  still  it  left  a  majority 
to  the  conservative  party  of  three.  And  if 
the  conservatives  had  been  true  to  themselves 
— and  I  wish  to  God  they  had  been,  and  I 
will  tell  you,  by  and  by,  why  —  they  could 
have  prevented  a  good  deal  of  trouble  and  a 
good  deal  of  agitation  in  the  country.  Sup- 
posing that  what  is  called  the  llebellion 
Losses  Bill  had  not  been  passed  in  1849, 
would  the  country  have  suffered  a  great  deal 
from  it  ?  But  if  the  conservatives  had  been 
true  to  themselvejg  they  would  have  stopped 
the  bill.  It  would  have  been  discussed  in 
all  the  public  prints.  The  Moutrcalers  would 
not  have  been  entirely  reconciled  to  the  mea- 
sure, but  they  would  have  waived  their  opin- 
ions as  dutiful  subjects  of  the  Queen,  and  we 
should  not  have  witnessed  the  scandal  we  had 
in  Montreal — the  burning  of  the  Parliament- 
ary buildings  and  the  Ilepresentativc  of  the 
Queen  pelted  with  stones  and  almost  murder- 
ed, followed  by  the  annexation  movement. 
But  I  say  if  the  conservatives  had  resisted 
and  just  postponed  the  bill  for  another  year, 
all  this  trouble  might  have  been  avoided. 
Now,  honorable  gentlemen,  what  was  the 
spirit  which  actuated  the  appointments  to  the 
Council  from  1841  to  1848  '?  It  was  a  spirit 
of  partisanship,  and  where  there  is  partisan- 
ship there  can  be  no  justice.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Where  there  is  partisanship  there  can  be  no 
stability  —  you  can  depend  upon  nothing. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  only  when  justice  is  ren- 
dered to  all  parties  that  you  can  reckon  upon 
stable  and  permanent  governmental  institu- 
tions. (Hear,  hear.)  To  shew  the  differenco 
between  the  spirit  which  actuated  these  nom- 
inations, from  1841  U^  1847,  and  the  spirit 
which  exists  now,  it  is  only  necessary  to  refer 
to  the  resolutions  of  the  Conference.  The 
fourteenth  resolution  says  : 

The  first  selection  of  the  members  of  the  Legis- 
liillve  Council  slmll  be  maJe,  except  as  regards 
rriuco  Edward  Island,  from  the  Legislative 
Councils  of  the  various  provinces,  so  far  as  a 
HulBcient  number  bo  found  qualified  uivd  willing 


239 


to  serve ;  such  members  shall  be  appointed  by 
the  Crown  at  the  recommendation  of  the  General 
Executive  Government,  upon  the  nomination  of 
the  several  local  governments,  and  in  such  nom- 
ination due  regard  shall  be  had  to  the  claims  of 
the  members  of  the  Legislative  Council  of  the 
Opposition  in  each  province,  so  that  all  political 
parties  may,  as  nearly  as  possible,  be  fairly  repre- 
sented. 

This  shews  you  the  spirit  ia  whicli  these  reso- 
lutions were  framed.  Certainly  the  gentlemen 
who  composed  the  Conference  were,  like  our- 
selves, liable  to  err,  but  there  is  no  doubt  in 
my  mind  that  they  acted  conscientiously  from 
beginning  to  end.  Well,  honorable  gentlemen, 
after  the  burning  of  the  Parliament  House  in 
Montreal,  the  greatest  possible  excitement  was 
created  all  over  the  province.  Those  who 
were  most  displeased  at  the  passing  of  the 
Rebellion  Losses  Bill,  condemned  in  the  most 
violent  terms  the  swamping,  as  they  called  it, 
of  the  Legislative  Council,  though  after  all  it 
was  nothing  to  be  condemned,  seeing  that  it 
simply,  to  some  extent,  re-established  the 
equilibrium.  But  it  was  called,  in  the  furor 
of  the  moment,  the  disgraceful  swamping  of 
the  Legislative  Council,  and  there  was  great 
agitation  all  over  the  country.  Well,  by 
means  of  the  press  constantly  hammering 
away  upon  what  had  been  done  by  the  Q-ov- 
ernment,  and  representing  those  who  had 
been  appointed  as  mere  machines  and  tools 
of  the  Executive,  although  they  were  really 
among  the  most  respectable  and  intelligent  in 
Canada — but  party  passion  does  not  reason — 
the  people  were  led  to  believe  that  the  Legis- 
lative Council  had  been  disgraced  by  the  ap- 
pointment of  these  twelve  additional  members. 
But  during  the  time  that  the  conservatives 
were,  on  the  one  hand,  thus  battering  down 
the  Legislative  Council,  what  had  we  on  the 
other  hand  ?  We  had  the  old  Reform  party 
in  Lower  Canada  beginning  to  recall  their  old 
hatred  to  the  Legislative  Council.  Although 
there  was  no  reason  to  complain  after  the 
introduction  of  responsible  government,  yet 
people  followed  not  their  reason  but  their  pre- 
judice. So  that  the  Legislative  Council  re- 
ceived a  cross-fire  from  both  sides.  It  was 
being  battered  down  by  public  opinion  on 
either  hand,  and  what  could  it  do  ?  Nothing, 
but  come  down  lower  and  lower  in  public  esti- 
mation. Although  the  consciences  of  the 
members  reproached  them  nothing — although 
they  could  walk  the  streets  with  their  heads 
erect,  yet  the  Legislative  Council  had  been  so 
much  reduced  in  public  opinion,  that  those 
gentlemen  were  really,  I  will  not  say  ashamed, 
but  reluctant  to  attend  iu  their  placei.     But, 


besides,  they  came  not  to  receive  remuneration 
or  salary.  From  the  time  they  were  appointed 
in  1841,  they  sacrificed  their  time  and  their 
money,  and  gave  their  services  gratuitously  to 
the  public ;  and  they  were  met,  as  I  have 
already  stated,  by  this  universal  deluge  of 
abuse  which  was  levelled  against  them.  (Hear, 
hear.)  There  was  therefore  no  great  en- 
couragement for  them  to  attend  in  their 
places  in  the  Legislative  Council.  But  what 
have  we  seen  since?  Session  after  session, 
day  after  day,  week  after  week,  we  saw  the 
Speaker  come  into  the  Council  with  great 
pomp,  as  the  Speaker  always  does  come  into 
the  Council — (hear,  hear,  and  a  laugh) — pre- 
ceded by  the  mace  ;  and  after  the  Speaker 
had  made  his  usual  dutiful  bow  to  the  Throne, 
he  would  take  his  seat  and  remain  quietly  in 
the  chair  for  the  space  of  one  hour.  At  the 
end  of  the  hour,  he  would  consult  his  watch, 
and  saying  there  was  no  quorum  present — 
although  surely  the  quorum  was  a  very  small 
one,  being  ten  members  only — he  would 
declare  the  House  adjourned  until  the  fol- 
lowing day. 

It  being  six  o'clock,  the  Speaker  left  the 
Chair. 

After  the  dinner  recess, 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHlS  continued  his 
remarks.  He  said — Honorable  gentlemen, 
when  the  clock  struck  six,  I  was  stating  that, 
in  one  session  after  another,  the  Speaker  of 
this  honorable  House  had  day  after  day  to 
declare  that  there  was  no  quorum,  and  the 
Government  of  the  day  had  to  employ  all  sorts 
of  means  to  induce  honorable  gentlemen  to 
attend  in  their  places.  The  prestige  of  the 
Legislative  Council  had  gone,  and  the  mem- 
bers, notwithstanding  the  offer  to  pay  their 
expenses,  &c.,  remained  at  home,  and  the 
business  of  the  country  suffered  very  much. 
Towards  the  end  of  the  session,  we  could 
muster  a  few  gentlemen.  But  they  did  not 
take  much  interest  in  the  business  of  the 
country — in  fact,  they  were  disgusted  with  it, 
and  they  got  through  legislation  at  railroad 
speed.  Under  those  circumstances,  what  had 
the  Government  to  do  ?  They  were  obliged 
to  resort  to  some  means  to  restore,  if  possible, 
the  status  and  prestige  of  this  House.  There 
was  one  unanimous  cry  on  the  subject  from 
one  end  of  Lower  Canada  to  the  other — both 
conservatives  and  reformers  being  as  one  in 
pointing  to  the  elective  principle  as  a  cure  for 
the  state  of  things  in  which  this  province  was 
placed ;  and  the  Government,  in  consequence, 
consulted  with  the  English  authorities  with  a 
view  of  obtaining  leave  to  extend  to  this  House 


240 


the  elective  principle.  This  was  not,  as  I 
have  stated  already,  because  of  any  predilection 
on  our  part  for  the  elective  principle.  It  was 
not  because  we  thought  that  the  elective  prin- 
ciple was  much  better  than  the  system  of 
appointment  by  the  Crown — at  all  events 
before  the  introduction  of  responsible  govern- 
ment. Before  that,  the  gentlemen  who  no- 
minated members  of  this  House  were  respon- 
sible to  no  one.  The  appointments  then  were 
all  made  on  one  side.  Even  after  the  union, 
but  before  responsible  government  was  estab- 
lished, or  before  it  was  put  in  a  thoroughly 
practical  working  state,  the  appointments  had 
been  made  in  a  partial  manner.  (Hear,  hear.) 
And  it  is  not  surprising  that  we  experienced 
the  difficulties  we  did  until  that  period.  After 
the  establishment  of  responsible  government 
the  position  was  very  different — the  resolutions 
of  the  3rd  September,  1841,  having  declared 
that  no  Government  could  be  carried  on  except 
by  heads  of  departments  having  the  confidence 
of  the  representatives  of  the  people  in  the 
lower  branch  of  the  Legislature.  If,  from 
that  moment,  bad  appointments  happened  to 
be  made  to  the  Legislative  Council,  then  the 
Government  for  the  time  being  was  responsible 
to  the  people  for  those  appointments.  And, 
when  the  people  wanted  an  elective  Council  at 
that  time,  they  did  not  base  the  demand  upon 
constitutional  principles,  but  were  led  by  their 
passions,  which  had  been  excited  by  their 
recollections  of  the  past.  They  did  not  reason 
the  thing  out ;  and,  in  fact,  the  great  majority 
of  the  people  here,  as  everywhere  else,  are  not 
able  to  reason  out  constitutional  points — they 
are  led  by  those  who  are  at  the  head  of  the 
different  parties.  In  saying  this,  I  have  no 
wish  to  be  unjust  to  my  countrymen.  For 
even  in  countries  like  the  United  States,  which 
boast  much  of  their  education,  the  immense 
ma.ss  of  the  people  are  led  by  prominent  men. 
They  do  not  reflect,  they  do  not  think  ibr 
themselves — and  so  it  was  with  our  people. 
The  Government  for  the  time  being  were  thus, 
by  the  force  of  circumstances,  obliged  to  bring 
forward  the  measure  for  altering  the  constitu- 
tion of  tlic  Legislative  Council.  The  measure 
was  pass:d  by  a  pretty  large  majority;  and 
I  think  that  until  now  the  elective  principle 
has  worked  remarkably  well  indeed,  and  that 
the  electors  have  sent  to  this  House  gentlemen 
who  would  do  honor  to  any  deliberative  body 
in  the  world — 1  care  not  where,  whether  in 
England,  or  on  the  continent  of  Europe,  or  in 
America.  But  difficulties  have  arisen  since 
the  passing  of  the  Act  of  185G,  and  tho  Gov- 
ernment of  tho   country   came   almost   to  a 


dead-lock.  Some  remedy  had  to  be  found, 
and  gentlemen  of  opposite  parties  wisely 
came  together  with  the  view  of  devising  a 
plan  which  would  not  only  cure  our  domestic 
difficulties,  but  give  greater  power  and  force 
to  the  British  North  American  colonies.  To 
bring  this  about  we  determined  that  we  would 
endeavor  to  obtain  a  Federal  union  of  all  the 
British  American  Provinces.  Delegates  from 
below,  and  the  gentlemen  composing  the  Ad- 
ministration of  Canada  met  together.  Some 
of  us  might  have  preferred  still  to  retain  the 
elective  principle,  but  then  we  had  to  meet 
those  gentlemen  from  below,  and  we  had  to 
give  vid  take.  We  could  not  carry  every- 
thing our  own  way.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  gen- 
tlemen from  the  Lower  Provinces  were  op- 
posed to  the  elective  principle,  and  went 
strongly  for  the  system  of  appointments  by 
the  Crown.  At  the  same  time  some  among 
ourselves  were  not  very  much  enamoured 
with  the  present  system — (hear,  hear) — and 
those  who  were  anxious  to  retain  the  elective 
principle,  were  obliged  to  yield.  Thus,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  what  is  now  proposed  comes 
before  you,  not  as  the  act  of  the  Government 
of  Canada — (hear,  hear) — but  as  the  mixed 
work  of  the  delegates  from  all  the  provinces, 
in  the  form,  as  it  were,  of  a  treaty.  I  do 
not  think,  after  the  explanations  I  have  given 
that  I  can  be  accused  of  a  great  deal  of  in- 
consistency, or  of  that  levity  which  would 
make  a  man  build  up  something  to-day  which 
he  would  be  anxious  to  demolish  to-morrow. 
No,  honorable  gentleman — but  circumstancos 
forced  the  Government  in  1856  to  bring  on 
their  measure  for  rendering  this  House  elect- 
ive ;  and  the  circumstances  of  the  country  in 
18G4  required  that  we  should  have  recourse 
to  some  other  means  to  put  an  end  to  thi.' 
dead-lock  in  which  the  Province  was  placed. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  am  sorry  that  I  do  not  see 
the  honorable  gentleman  from  Grandviilc 
(Hon.  Mr.  Letellier)  in  his  place.  Tho 
Hon.  Sir  Narcisse  F.  Belleau  the  other 
night  made  some  remarks  as  to  the  difficulty 
of  finding  candidates  for  the  Legislative 
Council.  Now,  for  my  own  part,  I  should  be 
exceedingly  sorry  to  say  anything  that  would 
wound  the  feelings  of  any  one.  And  whori- 
could  I  look — before  me,  or  behind  mo,  or  at 
my  .side — to  find  any  one  against  whom  I 
could  bring  tho  least  reproach  ?  No — I  re- 
peat it  again — that  those  whom  the  elective 
princii»le  has  sent  here  are  gentlemen  who 
would  compare  well  with  the  members  of  an\ 
legislative  body  that  could  bo  mentioned.  Bni 
tlien  there  are  difficulties    inherent    to    tlir 


^241 


working  of  the  principle  itself.  I  would  [es- 
pecially mention  the  difficulty  which  arises 
from  the  constituencies  being  so  large.  I 
know  not  whether  this  has  been  felt  in  Upper 
Canada,  but  I  know  that  it  has  been  felt  in 
Lower  Canada.  Many  of  you,  honorable 
gentlemen,  have  spent  laborious  days  and 
laborious  nights  in  canvassing  these  immense 
divisions,  where  sometimes  the  internal  com- 
munications are  exceedingly  difficult.  You 
know  the  wear  and  tear  thus  imposed  on 
the  human  body,  and  that  some  gentlemen 
after  canvassing  these  immense  divisions, 
have  found  their  graves  in  consequence  of 
the  exhaustion  brought  on  by  these  eflforts. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But,  honorable  gentlemen,  it 
is  not  merely  this  tear  and  wear  of  the  human 
constitution  which  you  have  had  to  encounter. 
This  country,  I  need  not  say,  is  not  very 
wealthy.  In  point  of  wealth  it  does  not  re- 
semble the  Mother  Country.  There  are  gen- 
tlemen there  with  £200,000  or  £300,000  a 
year,  who  think  nothing  of  spending  several 
thousand  pounds,  provided  that  by  that  ex- 
penditure they  can  put  themselves  in  a  con- 
spicuous position  before  the  country.  But 
here  our  fortunes  are  limited.  That  is  the 
case  in  Lower  Canada.  I  hope  it  is  not  so 
in  Upper  Canada. 

Hon.    Mr.   CAMPBELL— It    is    worse 
there.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— Your  fortunes 
in  Upper  Canada  may  be  much  greater  than 
ours.  (Cries  of  "  no,  no.")  But  I  can  tell 
you  how  it  is  generally  among  ourselves — 
speaking  not  so  much  for  the  district  of  Mon- 
treal as  for  the  portion  of  the  country  in  which 
I  live  myself,  the  district  of  Quebec.  Where 
I  reside,  some  forty  or  fifty  miles  below  Que- 
bec, the  fortunes  are  not  very  large,  and  the 
farmer  who  by  his  industry  has  been  able 
to  accumulate  some  £8,000  or  £10,000  is  a 
very  wealthy  man.  My  honorable  friend 
beside  me  (Hon.  Mr.  Campbell)  suggests 
that  it  is  the  Ottawa  gentlemen  who  are  able 
to  affi)rd  a  contest.  (Laughter.)  If  so,  I 
tell  honorable  gentlemen  that  we  cannot  affoid 
it  below.  It  is  but  few  whose  fortunes  reach 
£6,000  or  £8,000 — perhaps  half  a  dozen  in  a 
large  parish.  It  is  true  that  some  of  our 
merchants  in  Lower  Canada,  by  their  in- 
dustry and  aptitude  in  trade,  have  accumu- 
lated very  handsome  fortunes — but  these  are 
the  exceptions.  Well,  a  man  who,  after  fifteen 
or  twenty  years  of  hard  labor,  has  accumulated 
£6,000  or  £8,000  for  his  family,  or  for  his 
old  age — knowing  how  a  candidate  is  bled — 
(laughter) — is   not   very  willing   to  go  and 

32 


spend  half  of  it  in  an  election.  You  cannot 
persuade  such  a  man  to  come  forward — but 
you  may  engage  other  parties  who  have  not 
got  much  money  to  lose  to  do  so.  These  men 
will  be  ready  to  promise  a  great  deal,  though 
they  may  not  be  able  to  fulfil  their  promises, 
and  are  thus  more  likely  to  be  elected  than 
those  who  have  fortunes.  My  honorable  friend 
from  Grandville,  I  think,  misapprehended  the 
honorable  Knight  on  his  left  (Hon.  Sir  N.  F. 
Belleau,)  when  he  understood  him  to  speak 
slightingly  of  the  talent  of  honorable  members 
of  this  House.  We  have  no  aristocracy  here 
in  the  sense  of  a  family  aristocracy,  but  we 
have  an  equally'influential  aristocracy,  that  of 
intellect.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  a  man  of 
intellect  and  education,  though  not  a  rich  man, 
I  consider  is  in  every  way  worthy  of  respect, 
and  would  be  a  most  desirable  addition  to  this 
House.  But,  suppose  we  have  a  man  of 
respectability,  of  education,  and  of  intellect, 
and  one  who  is  highly  esteemed  by  his  neigh- 
bors— suppose  he  has  a  little  fortune  besides, 
he  is  not  the  worse  man  for  that.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST— 
He  is  so  much  the  better.  (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— But,  as  I  was 
remarking,  what  I  am  afraid  of  is,  that  men 
who  are  well  qualified  for  the  position,  after 
having  gone  through  one  or  two  elections,  in 
which  they  have  lost  one-half,  or  two-thirds, 
or  the  whole  of  their  fortune,  are  not  likely  to 
stand  another  contest,  and  we  lose  the  happi- 
ness of  meeting  them  here  again.  And  I  fear 
that  the  longer  the  elective  system  is  continued, 
the  greater  would  be  the  difficulty  in  that 
respect.  Let  us  take  a  lesson  from  history, 
and  from  what  goes  on  around  us.  I  recol- 
lect that,  in  1855,  when  on  board  the 
Canada,  going  to  Europe,  I  made  the 
acquaintance  of  some][most  respectable  Amer- 
ican families,  and  particularly  of  a  most  in- 
teresting American  woman.  (Hear,  hear,  and 
laughter.)  Honi  soit  qui  mal  y  pense.  (Con- 
tinued laughter.)     I  met  with  a  very  inter- 


esting American  woman. 


and,  as  she  was  con- 


versing 


with  me  and  mentionmg  some  very 
preposterous  laws  that  had  been  passed  in  her 
state,  I  said — "  Madame,  have  you  not  some 
people  of  good  common  sense  and  respecta- 
bility to  oppose  such  absurd  laws  ?"  She  re- 
plied, "  Sir,  I  am  an  American  woman,  and 
— I  am  ashamed  to  say  it — the  respectable 
people,  the  people  of  standing  in  our  state, 
have  no  voice  in  the  government  of  their 
country."  (Hear,  hear.)  Many  of  you, 
honorable  gentlemen,   are  familiar  with  the 


242 


state  of  things  in  the  United  States,  which 
has  resulted  from  carrying  the  elective  prin- 
ciple too  far  ;  and  the  fact  that  that  principle, 
carried  too  far  has  worked  much  mischief, 
ought  to  place  us  on  our  guard.  Some  years 
Jigo,  in  Canada,  there  was  quite  a  rage  for  the 
elective  principle,  and  an  agitation  was  got  up 
with  the  view  of  rendering  the  judiciary 
elective.  Well,  a  statesman  of  the  United 
States,  with  whom  I  am  well  acquainted,  and 
who  now  occupies  a  high  position  in  that 
country,  once  remarked  to  me  :  "  You  have 
([uite  enough  of  the  democratic  element  in 
your  Constitution  already,  and,  above  all,  do 
not  make  your  judiciary  elective,  for  that 
would  be  one  of  the  greatest  curses  you  could 
inflict  on  your  country."  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
elective  principle,  kept  within  proper  bounds, 
is  very  good  indeed,  and  hitherto,  no  doubt, 
has  worked  well  in  this  House.  But  I  doubt 
whether,  in  the  course  of  time,  this  House 
would  not  lose  its  present  high  status  if  the 
elective  principle  was  continued  in  it  for  ever. 
As  regards  this,  however,  I  merely  state 
my  own  opinion,  and  other  honorable  gentle- 
men may  hold  contrary  opinions,  as  they  are 
perfectly  entitled  to  do.  (Hear,  hear.)  Hav- 
ing thus,  honorable  gentlemen,  explained  the 
rea.sons  which  induced  the  Government,  in 
185G,  to  propose  that  the  elective  principle 
should  be  extended  to  this  House,  with  the 
concomitant  circumstances  which  assisted  in 
bringing  that  about — and  having  also  ex- 
plained the  reasons  which  have  induced  the 
Government  now  to  look  for  another  state  of 
political  existence,  as  wc  may  call  it,  by  Con- 
federation with  the  Maritime  Provinces,  I 
think  I  am  clear  from  any  imputation  of 
inconsistency  or  levity  of  purpose.  Before 
sitting  down  I  have  a  personal  explanation  to 
make.  When  I  speak,  honorable  gentlemen, 
I  speak  with  sincerity,  but,  like  any  other 
man,  I  may  commit  a  mistake.  The  moment, 
however,  that  I  find  I  have  committed  a  mis- 
take, I  am  ready  to  admit  it,  as  any  honest 
man  should  do.  (Hear,  liear.)  I  And  that 
I  took  a  wrong  view  of  the  proportions  of  ap- 
pointed members  that  were  to  be  allotted  to 
each  province,  in  case  the  amendment  of  my 
honorable  friend  from  the  Wellington  Divis- 
ion should  pas;-.  I  have  since  been  convinced 
that  I  was  wrong,  and  that  it  was  really  car- 
rying out  the  principle  of  distribution  adopt- 
ed in  the  f-chomc,  to  allot  to  the  Lower  J'rov- 
inces  otiier  ten  members.  I  am  glad  to  admit 
th*it  my  honorable  friend  was  right  in  cor- 
reotiug  mo.  But  I  still  maintuiu  ihut  he  was 
wrong — very  wrong — in  bartering  old  men 


for  young  ones,  because,  no  doubt,  the  old 
men  would  soon  disappear  from  their  scats, 
while  the  young  men  from  below  would  long 
retain  their  places,  and  we  would  thus  destroy 
the  equilibrium  upon  which  the  whole  fabric 
of  the  propo.=:ed  Constitution  is  based.  I  say 
the  honorable  gentleman  was  wrong  in  that, 
and  that,  if  his  proposal  were  adopted,  it 
would  certainly  be  no  improvement  on  the 
scheme  as  it  has  come  from  the  Conference. 
(Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SKEAD  said — Honorable  gen- 
tlemen, I  claim  the  indulgence  of  the  House 
for  a  few  moments  while  I  state  from  my  point 
of  view,  as  one  of  the  representatives  from 
Central  Canada,  the  way  in  which  I  regard 
the  measure  now  under  consideration.  I  am 
an  advocate  of  the  union  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  I 
came  here  a  few  weeks  ago,  my  mind  was 
scarcely  made  up  as  to  the  course  I  should 
pursue.  At  the  same  time  I  was  desirous  of 
taking  that  course  which  should  be  approved 
by  the  majority  of  my  constituents.  In  No- 
vember last  I  received  the  document  which 
was  sent  to  members  of  both  Houses  through- 
out the  province  ;  but  as  it  was  marked  "  Pri- 
vate," 1  felt  bound  by  every  consideration  of 
propriety  not  to  make  it  public.  Having  at 
that  time  been  reeleeted  by  my  constituents, 
I  had  no  occasion  to  use  it  in  connection  with 
securing  my  return  to  this  House.  But, 
speaking  of  my  reelection  a  few  months  ago, 
I  may  remark  that  a  number  of  my  constitu- 
ents felt  disposed  at  that  time  to  pledge  me  to 
oppose  this  union  of  the  British  North  Amer- 
ican colonies.  For  my  own  part  I  felt  it 
would  be  wrong  for  mc  to  do  so,  not  knowing 
what  was  the  programme  that  was  about  to 
be  laid  ;  I  refused,  therefore,  to  give  a  pledge. 
Probably  I  felt  more  independent  on  account 
of  there  being  no  opposition.  (Laughter.) 
But  be  that  as  it  may,  I  have  the  same  de- 
sire to  act  in  accordance  with  the  deliberate 
views  of  my  constituents  as  if  I  had  canvassed 
every  vote  in  the  division.  I  pledged  my.self 
on  the  hustings  on  the  day  of  my  election, 
that  as  soon  as  the  scheme  was  published  I 
would  give  it  my  earnest  attention,  and  form 
a  judgment  upon  it  to  the  best  of  my  ability. 
After  the  document  was  formally  laid  on  the 
table  of  the  House,  I  waited  till  it  was  put 
in  type,  and  having  ordered  two  thousand 
copies  of  it,  I  .sent  them,  some  tiftecn  days 
ago,  to  my  constituents,  with  a  circular  calU 
ing  upon  them  to  state  any  objections  they 
might  havo  to  the  goheme  if  thoy  oon- 
sldored  it  objectionable,  and  to  indicate  what 


243 


course  they  wished  me  to  pursue  with  re- 
ference to  it.  I  am  up  to  this  evening  with- 
out any  answers  to  that  circular,  with  one 
or  two  exceptions  which  I  need  not  take  up 
the  time  of  the  House  by  further  alluding:  to. 
I  now  take  it  for  sranted.  having  given  such 
an  ample  opportunity  to  my  constituents  to 
express  their  opinions,  that  I  am  at  full  liberty 
to  pursue  that  course  which  I  think  myself 
to  be  for  the  interests  of  the  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  My  feeling  in  the  first  instance  was 
that  the  matter  was  being  pressed  too  rapidly  in 
this  House — that  we  might  have  waited  for  a 
little — that  we  should  have  allowed  the  other 
House  to  go  on  and  adopt  the  resolutions  first, 
if  they  did  adopt  them,  before  we  were  called 
on  to  pronounce  a  final  decision  upon  them. 
But  I  have  somewhat  changed  my  mind  from 
hearing  the  able  speeches  of  honorable  gentle- 
men both  for  and  against  the  amendment 
now  under  the  cocsideration  of  the  House ; 
and  I  have  come  to  the  conclusion  to  give  an 
independent  vote,  according  to  the  best  judg- 
ment I  can  form,  since  my  constituents,  after 
being  invited  to  express  their  opinions,  up  to 
this  hour  have  not  responded  to  the  request.  I 
speak  here  as  a  representative  of  Central  Can- 
ada, and  particularly  of  the  Ottawa  country. 
The  people  there  are  engaged  mainly  in  one 
trade,  the  lumber  trade  ;  and,  with  reference  to 
that  trade,  the  promulgation  of  this  sche^ie  has 
caused  us  some  feelings  of  apprehension,  not 
to  say  gloom.  Till  within  the  last  few  hours, 
as  late  as  yesterday,  I  was  still  in  the  dark 
as  to  the  bearings  of  the  scheme  in  that 
respect.  But  I  have  now  had  assurances  from 
the  Government — and  particularly  from  one 
or  two  members  of  it — that  the  scheme  is  not 
going  to  inflict  that  injury  upon  the  lumbering 
interest  which  we  imagined.  In  fact  the 
clause  relating  to  that  subject  has  been  so  ex- 
plained to  me,  that  I  am  now  perfectly  satis- 
fied. (Hear,  hear.)  My  feeling  formerly 
was  that  our  trade  was  treated  in  a  manner 
which  it  did  not  deserve.  Here  we  have  a 
trade  employing  many  thousands  of  people — 
employing  a  large  amount  of  shipping  to  carry 
away  the  produce  of  our  forests,  which 
exceeds  the  amount  of  the  exported  agricul- 
tural produce  of  the  country  by  a  value  of 
some  two  millions  of  dollars.  We  naturally 
felt  that  such  a  trade  had  some  right  to  be 
considered.  (Hear,  hear.)  However,  accept- 
ing the  assurances  of  honorable  gentlemen,  in 
whom  I  have  the  utmost  confidence,  who 
compose  the  present  Government,  I  am  now 
quite  prepared,  as  one  of  the  representatives 
of  the  Ottawa  section  of  country,  to  leave  that 


matter  in  their  hands.  A  great  deal  has  been 
said  in  this  debate  on  the  general  question  of 
the  Confederation  of  these  provinces,  and  as 
to  that  I  shall  say  but  little.  As  I  have  already 
stated,  I  am  an  advocate  of  union.  I  would 
even  say  that  the  scheme  of  the  delegates  to  the 
Quebec  Confererence  does  not  go  far  enouerh. 
I  contend  that,  instead  of  merely  taking  in 
the  provinces  to  the  east  of  us,  the  scheme 
should  have  embraced  British  Columbia  and 
the  whole  of  the  territory  to  the  west.  An 
honorable  friend  near  me  says  that  will  come 
in  good  time.  But  I  am  afraid  that  some 
Downing-street  or  other  influence  may  prevent 
it.  (Cries  of  "  no,  no !  ")  I  should  like  to 
see  the  Pacific  as  the  western  boundary  of  this 
young  Confederation,  in  the  same  way  as  the 
Atlantic  is  its  eastern  limit,  so  that  we  should 
have  one  country  stretching  from  ocean  to 
ocean.  (Hear,  hear.)  A  great  deal  has  been 
said  in  this  debate  on  the  subject  of  railways. 
Honorable  gentlemen  have  spoken  of  the  cost 
of  building  our  railways,  of  the  damage  the 
Grand  Trunk  has  done,  and  of  the  profits 
certain  gentlemen  have  made  out  of  it.  For 
the  life  of  me,  I  cannot  see  the  force  of  their 
arguments.  True,  the  Grand  Trunk  has  cost 
a  great  deal  of  money,  but  how  should  we 
feel  if  we  had  to  go  back  to  the  state  of 
things  which  existed  when  we  had  no  railroad  ? 
What  should  we  do  if  the  Grand  Trunk  were 
now  taken  from  us  ?  I  believe  we  could  not 
do  without  it.  It  has  become  a  necessity. 
Every  man  within  the  range  of  its  influence, 
has  had  his  land  enhanced  in  value — and  the 
debt  of  $15,000,000  or  §16,000,000,  while  of 
course  in  itself  a  great  deal  of  money,  is  noth- 
ing when  we  reflect  on  the  ability  of  the  prov- 
inces to  bear  it.  If  spared  to  continue  here  dur- 
ing my  term  of  eight  years,  I  shall  still  advo- 
cate the  Intercolonial  llailway  as  a  line  neces- 
sary to  connect  us  with  the  seaboard.  It  will 
cost  us  some  little  money  no  doubt,  but  it  will 
yield  us  compensating  advantages.  There  are 
large  forests  to  the  east  of  us,  which  have 
still  to  yield  up  their  wealth,  and  no  one  can 
tell  how  much  may  come  out  of  that  country, 
when  its  resources  are  developed.  The  subsidy 
we  are  now  paying  the  ocean  steamships  will 
go  a  good  way  to  pay  the  interest  on  our  share 
of  the  cost  of  the  railway.  Besides  we 
are  now  spending  a  great  deal  of  money  to 
bring  population  into  these  provinces — an 
object  that  will  be  promoted  to  a  large  extent 
by  the  building  ot  that  road.  To  build  it 
will  take  some  four  or  five  years,  and  we  can- 
not tell  how  much  that  section  of  the  country 
will  be  settled  in  that  time.     It  will  no  doubt 


244 


prove  of  great  advantage  to  us.     We  shall 
then  be  ready,  I  hope,  to  commence  the  rail- 
road to  British  Columbia,  and  the  improve- 
ment of  the  Ottawa  river  to  the  upper  lakes — 
(hear,  hear) — and  the  navvies  and  others  who 
have  been  employed  on  these  works  will  find 
employment  on  the  road  leading  to  the  Pacific, 
and  will   ultimately  become   settlers  in  the 
great  Red   River   country.      (Hear,   hear.) 
Such  are  my  sentiments  in  connection   with 
the  subject  now  before  the  House.     My  ex- 
perience may  not  have  been  as  great  as  that 
of  some  honorable  members,  but  I  have  been 
in  the  habit  of  observing  what  was  going  on 
around  me,  and  I  have  come  to  the  conclusion 
that  the  union  of  these  provinces  is  desirable 
and  necessary.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  has  been 
said  that  the  gentlemen  forming  the  present 
Ministry   have   held   such  opposite   opinions 
that  no  good  can  be  expected  to  result  from 
their  coalition .     I  have  not  such  a  poor  opinion 
of  human  nature  as  to  feel  disposed  to  question 
in  any  way  the  sincerity   and  patriotism  of 
those  honorable  gentlemen.     They  have  seen 
the  necessity  of  some  change  being  brought 
about,  if  the  good  of  the  country  was  to  be 
promoted.      Whatever  may   have  been   the 
antagonism  of  their  views  formerly,  they  now 
occupy  the  same  wigwam,  and,  it  is  said,  the 
same  blanket  covers  them — (laughter) — and, 
so  long  as  the  country  receives  the  benefit,  I 
am  satisfied  to  support  them,  no  matter  what 
their  politics  may  have  been  during  the  last 
twenty  years.     (Hear,  hear.)     No  doubt  the 
country  has  been  suffering — a  cure  had  to  be 
found,  and  I  think  we  are  now  on  the  highway 
to  get  it.     (Hear,  hear.)     Honorable  gentle- 
men composing  the  Government  will  permit 
mc  to  repeat  that  our  lumber  trade  deserves 
their  earnest  and  best  attention  on  account  ot 
the  employment  it  gives  to  so  large  a  number 
of  persons,    the  way  in  which  it  swells  the 
exports  of  the  country,  the  market  it  aftbrds 
for  the  produce  of  the  agricultural  portion  of 
the  community,   and  the  manner  in  which  it 
forwards    the  settlement  of  our  wild   lands. 
To  the   Ottawa   district  it  is,  of  course,   of 
special  importance,  but  it  has  an  interest  for 
the  whole  province,  inasmuch  as  it  makes  for 
us  a  back   country.     A  country   that  is  all 
frontier    must    always   be   a  little    country. 
(Hear,  hear.)     If  a  check  is  in  any  way   put 
upon  the  lumber  trade,  as  the  consc(iuerice  of 
its  being  placed   under  the  separate  control  of 
each  local   government,   it  would  bo  a  result 
much  to  be  regretted.     Rut  it  is  to  be  liojuul 
that   the  Covernment  will    give   this    matter 


their  most  earnest  consideration,  and  that  they 
will  do  what  in  their  opinion  is  best  for  the 
interests  of  all  concerned.  It  has  been  said  by 
some  in  our  section  that  Central  Canada  is  to 
be  made  the  footstool  of  Upper  Canada,  and 
that  it  is  also  to  be  made  the  footstool  of 
Lower  Canada.  For  my  own  part  I  am  quite 
unable  to  see  how  we  can  be  made  the  foot- 
stool of  both.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  was  the 
idea  expressed  in  a  letter  sent  me  the  other 
day,  begging  me  to  give  the  scheme  all  the 
opposition  in  my  power.  It  may  be  true  that 
the  western  part  of  the  province  is  a  little 
covetous,  and  a  little  ambitious  of  controlling 
everything;  still,  I  have  that  faith  in  the 
good  feeling  of  the  western  people,  and  in  our 
ability  to  protect  ourselves,  that  I  do  not  be- 
lieve our  lumbering  interest  is  to  be  destroyed 
all  at  once,  even  though  the  Local  Government 
of  Upper  Canada  should  have  its  seat  in  To- 
ronto. Whoever  may  compose  the  Local  Gov- 
ernment, I  think  they  must  see  the  import- 
ance of  the  lumber  trade,  and  will  do  what 
they  can  to  foster  and  encourage  that  which 
is  essential  to  the  good  of  the  whole  country. 
I  do  not  believe  they  will  adopt  the  policy  cf 
killing  the  goose  that  lays  the  golden  egg. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  see  there  is  a  disposition  to 
have  the  vote  taken,  and  I  will  not  detain  the 
House  longer.  (Cries  of  '•  go  on.")  I  have 
only  this  to  say  in  conclusion,  that  when  these 
scattered  provinces  are  united  together,  as  is 
now  proposed,  and  when  the  bond  of  that 
union  has  been  sealed  with  the  great  Imperial 
seal  of  Great  Britain — with  the  blessing  and 
favor  of  an  all-ruling  Providence — I,  for  one, 
have  no  fear  of  the  result.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SANBORN  said— I  desire,  be- 
fore the  vote  is  taken,  to  offer  a  single  explan- 
ation. The  Honorable  Premier  (Hon.  Sir  E. 
P.  TACHf )  attributed  to  me  certain  remarks 
on  which  ho  based  the  early  portion  of  his 
speech.  He  said  I  complained  of  the  arrange- 
ment of  the  electoral  divisions  in  Lower  Can- 
ada. I  made  no  such  complaint.  I  made  no 
allusion  to  that.  What  1  liad  reference  to 
was  the  appointment  of  Legislative  Council- 
lors for  divisions,  and  their  having  property 
qualifications  in  those  divisions.  1  am  sure 
the  Honorable  Premier  did  not  desire  (o  at- 
tribute to  me  anything  I  did  not  say. 

Hon.  Sill  E.  P.  TACHl^:— If  my  honora- 
ble friend  says  he  did  not  use  iho  argument, 
of  course  my  remarks  upon  it  go  for  nothing. 

Hon.    Mr.   SANBORN— Another   poinV 

too,  I  may  notice.     The  Honorable  Premier 

^  basc«l  liis  argument  on   jny  having  drawn  a 


245 


distinction  between  Papists  and  Protestants. 
Now,  I  never  used  the  terms  "Papist,"  or 
"  Catholic,"  or  "  Protestant."  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  distinction  I  drew,  and  the  rernarks  I 
made,  were  with  regard  to  the  English  and 
the  French  of  Lower  Canada.  And  honorable 
gentlemen  will  remember  that  I  distinctly  ad- 
mitted what  the  Premier  had  claimed  for  his 
countrymen — namely,  their  well-known  liber- 
ality. I  have  always  admitted  that,  and  liave 
never  had  any  disposition  to  deny  it.  But 
my  argument  was  that,  in  establishing  a  Con- 
stitution, our  rights  and  interests  should  be 
protected  by  distinct  provisions  in  that  Con- 
stitution— that  these  would  form  the  only 
satisfactory  assurance  we  could  get — that  we 
could  not  rest  upon  the  liberality  of  any  class 
of  men,  but  must  have  the  assurance  of  dis- 
tinct guarantees.  That  was  the  line  of  argu- 
ment I  pursued.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not 
think  the  Premier  should  have  been  so  hard 
upon  me  for  not  stipulating  that  the  ten  men 
who  should  be  chosen  in  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces should  be  old  men,  so  that  they  might 
not  have  the  advantage  of  putting  in  young 
men  as  an  offset  to  our  old  ones.  When  I 
see,  in  the  case  of  the  Premier  himself,  at 
his  advanced  years,  the  youthful  fire  burn 
up  so  brightly,  and  that  age  does  not  at  all 
detract  from  the  vigor  he  manifests,  I  think 
he  must  excuse  me  for  not  having  made 
an  invidious  distinction  between  old  men  and 
young  ones.     (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  WILSON  begged  to  state  that 
he  was  opposed  to  the  amendment,  but  was 
precluded  from  recording  his  vote,  in  conse- 
quence of  having  paired  off  with  Hon.  Mr. 
Moore. 

The  House  then  divided  on  Hon.  Mr.  San- 
born's amendment,  which  was  negatived  by 
42  to  18. 

Contexts — The  Honorable  Messieurs  Aikins, 
Archambault,  Armstrong,  Bureau,  Chaffers,  Cor- 
mier, Currie,  Flint,  Leonard,  Leslie,  Letellier 
de  St.  Just,  Malhiot,  Olivier,  Perry,  Prouli, 
Reesor,  Sanborn,  and  Si.iipson. — 18. 

Ils'ox-CoxTEXTS — The  Honorable  Messieurs 
Alexander,  Allan,  Armand,  Sir  N.  F.  Belleau, 
Bennett,  Blake,  Fergusson  Blair,  Boulton,  Boss6, 
Bull,  Burnham,  Campbell,  Christie,  Crawford, 
DeBeaujeu,  Dickson,  A.  J.  Duchesnay,  E.  H.  J. 
Duchesnay,  Dumouchel,  Ferrier,  Foster,  Gingras, 
Guevremont,  Hamilton  (Inkerman),  Hamilton 
(Kingston),  Lacoste,  McCrea,  McDonald,  Mc- 
Master,  Macpherson,  Matheson,  Mills,  Panet, 
Price,  Prud'homrae,  Read,  Ross,  Ryan,  Shaw, 
Skead,  Sir  E.P.  Tach6,  and  Vidal.— 42. 


LEGISLATIVE    ASSEMBLY. 


Thursday,  February  16,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION,  in  resuming  the 
adjourned  debate  on  Confederation,  said — 
I  should  have  desired  to  make  my  remarks 
to  the  House  in  French,  but  considering  the 
large  number  of  honorable  members  who  are 
not  familiar  with  that  language,  I  think  it 
my  duty  to  speak  at  the  present  time  in 
English.  In  rising  on  this  occasion  to  ad- 
dress the  House  on  the  important  question 
submitted  to  us,  I  must  say  I  do  so  with  an 
unusual  degree  of  embarrassment,  not  only 
on  account  of  the  importance  of  the  sub- 
ject of  our  deliberations,  but  also  because  I 
have  to  differ  from  many  of  those  with  whom 
I  have  been  in  the  habit  of  acting  ever  since 
I  first  entered  into  political  life.  Yet,  Mr. 
Speaker,  when  I  consider  the  questions 
raised  by  the  resolutions  submitted  by  tho 
Government,  I  find  that  whether  they  be 
purely  political  ones,  such  as  the  proposal  to 
restrict  the  influence  and  control  of  the  peo- 
ple over  the  Legislature  of  the  country  by 
substituting  a  Chamber  nominated  by  the 
Crown  for  an  Elective  Legislative  Council,  or 
whether  they  are  purely  commercial  in  their 
character,  such  as  that  regarding  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  or  the  larger  question  of 
Confederation  itself,  I  still  hold  the  same 
views  that  I  held,  in  common  with  others 
who  have  now  changed  their  opinions,  when 
the  subjects  weie  first  mooted.  (Hear,  hear.) 
And  as  I  have  not  heard,  since  the  first 
opening  of  this  debate,  any  reason  for  sub- 
stituting a  nominated  for  an  elective  Upper 
Chamber  that  was  not  fully  argued  out  in 
1856,  when,  by  an  overwhelming  majority 
of  this  House,  it  was  decided  that  the  elec- 
tive principle  should  prevail — as  I  have 
not  heard  any  reason  why  we  should  pledge 
our  credit  and  resources  to  the  construction 
of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  even  previous 
to  any  estimate  of  its  cost  being  made,  that 
was  not  urged  in  1862  when  the  question  was 
before  the  country — nor  any  reason  for  inter- 
colonial union  that  was  net  raised  in  1858, 
when  the  present  Hon.  Finance  Minister 
pressed  the  question  on  the  attention  of  the 
Imperial  authorities — I  do  not  see  on  what 
ground  these  several  subjects  which  were 
then  so  unpopular,  and  those  views  which 
were  then  almost  universally  repudiated, 
should  now  be  more  favorably  considered  by 
the  people  of  this  country — I  fail  to  perceive 
why  those  once  unpalatable  measures,  now 


246 


coupled  with  additions  to  the  burdens  of  the 
J  eople,  should  have  grown  into  the  public 
favor.  I  cannot  understand  why  I  or  any 
members  of  this  House  should  change  our 
views  merely  because  certain  other  men.bers 
have,  when  we  do  not  conscientiously  think 
such  change  would  be  for  the  benefit  of  the 
country.  I  say,  sir,  that  I  am  quite  entitled 
to  maintain  the  same  views  now  that  I  have 
always  entertained.  (Hear.)  This  scheme, 
sir,  is  submitted  to  us  on  two  grounds  ;  first, 
the  necesiity  for  meeting  the  constitutional 
difficulties  which  have  arisen  between  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada,  owing  to  the  growing 
demands  on  the  part  of  Upper  Canada  for 
representation  by  poulation  ;  and,  secondly, 
the  necessity  for  providing  more  efficient 
meani  for  the  defence  of  the  country  than 
now  exist.  These  are  the  only  two  grounds 
we  have  hoard  stated  for  the  propositions 
now  submitted  to  us;  and,  sir,  I  shall  apply 
myself  to  explain  my  views  on  these  two 
subjects,  and  also  upon  the  scheme  generally. 
When  on  the  first  question,  I  trust  I  shall 
be  permitted  to  go  a  little  into  the  history 
of  the  agitation  of  representation  by  pop- 
ulation, for  I  owe  it  to  myself,  to  my 
constituents  and  the  country.  My  name 
has  been  used  in  various  ways.  It  has  some- 
times been  said  that  I  was  entirely  favorable 
to  represeutation  by  population — at  other 
times  that  I  was  entirely  favorable  to  the 
Confederation  of  the  provinces,  and  I  will 
now  endeavor,  once  more,  to  state  as  clearly 
as  po.ssible  what  luy  real  views  have  been  and 
still  are.  (Hear.)  The  first  time  represen- 
tation by  population  was  mooted  in  this 
House,  ou  behalf  of  Upper  Canada,  was,  1 
believe,  in  the  Session  of  1852,  when  the 
Conservative  party  took  it  up,  and  the  lion. 
Sir  Allan  Macxab  moved  resolutions  in  fa- 
vor of  the  principle.  We  then  Ibund  the  con- 
servatives arrayed  in  support  of  this  constitu- 
tional change.  It  had  been  mooted  before  on 
behalf  of  Jjower  Canada,  but  the  Upper 
Canadians  had  all  opposed  it.  I  think 
two  votes  were  taken  in  1852,  and  ou  one  ot 
these  occasions  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  (Hon.  J.  A.  Macdonald)  voted  for 
it;  it  came  up  incidentally.  In  1854  the 
Macs'AD-Morin  coalition  took  place,  and  we 
heard  no  more  of  representation  by  popula- 
tion from  that  quarter — that  is,  as  mooted 
by  the  Conservative  party,  who  froni  that 
ii:omcnt  uniformly  opposed  it  on  every  ooca- 
sion.  It  was,  however,  taken  up  by  the  present 
Hon.  President  of  the  Council,  the  member 
for  South  0.tford,  and  with  the  energy  and 


vigor  he  brings  to  bear  on  every  question  he 
takes  in  hand,  he  caused  such  an  agitation 
in  its  behalf  as  almost  threatened  a  revolu- 
tion. As  the  agitation  in  the  country  in- 
creased, so  did  the  vote  for  it  in  this  House 
increase,  and  on  several  occasions  I  expressed 
my  views  upon  the  subject.  I  never  shirked 
the  question — I  never  hesitated  to  s.iy  that 
something  ought  to  be  done  to  meet  the  just 
claims  of  Upper  Canada,  and  that  represen- 
tation based  on  population  was  in  the  abstract 
a  just  and  correct  principle.  I  held,  at  the 
same  time,  there  were  reasons  why  Lower 
Canada  could  not  grant  it;  I  entreated  Lower 
Canadian  representatives  to  show  themselves 
disposed  to  meet  the  views  of  Upper  Canada 
by  making,  at  any  rate,  a  counter  proposi 
tion  ;  and  in  1856,  when  Parliament  was 
sitting  in  Toronto,  I,  for  the  first  time,  sug- 
gested that  one  means  of  getting  over  the 
difficulty  would  be  to  substitute  for  the  pro- 
sent  Legislative  union  a  Confederation  of 
the  two  Canadas,  by  means  of  which  all  local 
questions  could  be  consigned  to  the  delibera- 
tions of  local  legislatures,  with  a  central 
government  having  control  of  commercial 
and  other  questions  of  common  or  general 
interest.  I  stated  that,  considering  the 
different  religious  faith,  the  different  lan- 
guage, the  different  laws  that  prevailed  in 
the  two  sections  of  the  country,  this  was  the 
best  way  to  meet  the  difficulty;  to  leave  to  a 
general  government  questions  of  trade,  cur- 
rency, banking,  public  works  of  a  general 
character,  &c.,  and  to  commit  to  the  dociyiou 
of  local  legislatures  all  matters  of  a  local 
bearing.  At  the  same  time  I  stated  that,  if 
these  views  should  not  prevail,  1  would  cer- 
tainly go  for  representation  by  population, 
and  such  checks  and  guarantees  as  would 
secure  the  interests  of  each  section  of  the 
country,  and  preserve  to  Lower  Canada  its 
cherished  institutions.  (Hear,  hear.)  This 
speech,  sir,  has  been  twisted  in  all  sorts  of 
ways.  I  have  heard  it  quoted  to  prove  that 
I  was  in  favor  of  representation  by  popula- 
tion, pure  and  simple ;  that  I  was  in  favor 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  provinces  and  for 
sevral  other  purposes,  just  as  it  suited 
the  occasion  or  the  purpose  of  those  who 
quoted  it.  (Hear  and  laughter.)  Tlie  first 
time  the  matter  was  put  to  a  practical  tout 
was  in  1858.  Ou  the  resignation  of  the 
MACUONALP-C.A.UTIER  Administration,  the 
BiioWN-DouiON  Government  was  formed, 
and  one  of  the  agreements  made  between  its 
iaeiuberswas  that  the  constitutional  question 
should  be  taken  up  and  settled,  either  by  a 


247 


ConfedcratioDjOf  the  two  provinces  or  by 
representation  according  to  population,  with 
such  fhecks  and  guarantees  as  would  secure 
the  religious  faith,  the  laws,  the  language, 
and  the  peculiar  institutions  of  each  section 
of  the  country  from  encroachments  on  the 
part  of  the  other.  The  subject  came  up 
again  in  the  latter  part  of  1850,  when  the 
Toronto  Conventiun  took  place.  I  should, 
however,  first  say  that,  when  the  Brown- 
DoRiON  Administration  was  formed,  the 
Hon.  the  President  of  the  Council  urged 
very  strongly  that  representation  by  popula- 
tion should  be  taken  up  as  the  method  by 
which  to  settle  the  constitutional  question  ^ 
while,  on  the  contrary,  I  saw  the  difficulty 
of  so  taking  it  up,  even  with  such  checks 
and  guarantees  as  were  spoken  of,  and  made 
the  counter-proposition  that  a  Confederation 
of  the  two  provinces  should  be  formed.  Of 
course  as  our  Administration  was  so  short- 
lived, the  subject  was  not  discussed  in  all  its 
bearings;  but  if  we  could  have  come  to  an 
agreement  ou  one  or  the  other  mode,  that 
one  would  have  been  submitted  as  the  solu- 
tion for  the  evils  complained  of — it  being 
however  distinctly  understood  that  I  would 
not  attempt  to  carry  any  such  measure 
through  without  obtaining  for  it  a  majority 
from  Lower  Canada.  I  would  never  have 
tried  to  make  any  change  in  the  Constituion 
without  ascertaining  that  the  people  in  my 
own  section  of  the  province  were  iu  favor  of 
such  a  change.  (Hear.)  To  return  to  the 
Toronto  Convention.  I  was  invited  to  attend 
it,  but  though  I  was  unable  to  do  so,  certain 
communications  took  place,  and  a  meeting 
of  the  liberal  members  of  the  House  from 
Lower  Canada  was  held,  and  a  document 
issued,  signed  by  the  present  Minister  of 
Agriculture  (Hon.  Mr.  McGee),  Hon.  Mr. 
Dessaulles,  Hon.  iMr.  Drummond,  and 
myself.  The  document  was  given  to  the 
public  for  the  purpose  of  setting  forth  the 
views  which  we  held  as  to  the  settlement  of 
the  difficulty.  Pretended  extracts  have 
been  given  from  that  document,  as  from  my 
fpeecli,  to  attempt  to  prove  all  sorts  of  things 
as  being  my  views,  but  I  ean  show  most 
clearly  that  the  proposition  made  in  it  was 
just  that  which  had  been  made  in  1858, 
viz,  the  Confederation  of  the  two  provinces, 
with  some  joint  authority  for  both.  Both 
at  that  time,  and  at  the  time  of  the  forma- 
tion of  the  BiiowN-DoBiON  Adjjiinistration, 
various  suggestions  were  msAo  as  to  the 
parrying  out  of  the  plan  of  qqafederatipg  the 


two  Canadas.  Some  thought  that  two 
entirely  distinct  legislatures  should  be  form- 
ed ;  one  local  for  Lower  Canada,  another 
local  for  Upper  Canada,  with  a  general 
legislature  acting  for  both.  Others  suggest- 
ed the  idea  that  the  Fame  legislature  might 
fulfil  all  purposes ;  that  the  same  body  might 
meet  and  deliberate  on  questions  of  common 
interest,  and  that  the  members  for  each 
section  might  then  separate  and  discuss  all 
matters  of  a  sectional  character.  Others, 
again,  said  the  same  result  might  be  obtained 
by  having  but  one  legislature,  and  insisting 
that  no  laws  affecting  either  section  of  the 
province  should  be  carried,  unless  with  the 
support  of  a  majority  from  the  section 
affected  by  them.  These  three  plans  were 
suggested — the  first  to  have  two  entirely 
distinct  legislative  bodies,  one  for  general 
purposes,  others  for  local  ones  ;  the  second, 
to  have  one  legislature,  of  which  the  parts 
should  have  the  right  to  act  separately  for 
local  objects,  after  general  busioess  had  been 
dispot^ed  of;  the  third,  to  have  but  one  body, 
but  to  resolve  that  no  legislative  act  of  a 
local  nature  should  pass  without  the  consent 
of  a  majority  of  the  representatives  from 
that  locality.  (Hear,  hear,)  The  document 
to  which  I  have  just  referred,  issued  in 
Octob'^.r,  1859,  contained  this  language  on 
the  subject  : — 

Your  Committee  are  impressed  Avith  the  con- 
viction that  whether  we  consider  the  present 
needs  or  the  probable  future  condition  of  the 
country,  the  true,  the  statesman-like  solution  is 
to  be  sought  in  the  substitution  of  a  purely 
fedeiative  for  the  present  legislative  union; 
the  former,  it  is  believed,  would  enable  us  to 
escape  all  the  evils,  and  to  retain  all  t!ie  advan- 
tages, appertaining  to  the  existing  unicn. 

^  ;|«  :(;  ^  ;); 

The  proposition  to  federalize  the  Canadian 
union  is  not  new.  On  the  contrary,  it  has  been 
frequently  mooted  in  Parliament  and  the  press 
during  the  last  few  years.  It  was  no  doubt  sug- 
gested by  the  example  of  the  neighbouring  States 
where  the  admirable  adaptation  of  the  federal 
system  to  the  government  of  an  extensive  terri- 
tory, inhabited  by  people  of  divers  origins, 
creeds,  laws  and  customs,  has  been  amply  de- 
monstrated ;  but  shape  and  consistency  were 
first  imparted  to  it  in  1856,  when  it  was  formally 
submitted  to  Parliament  by  the  Lower  Canada 
Opposition,  as  offering,  in  their  judgment,  the 
true  corrective  of  the  abuses  generated  under  the 
present  system. 

The  document  further  went  on  to  say : — 

The  powers  delegated  to  the  General  or  Fed- 
eral Governaient  ought  to  bo  those  only  wbicl^ 


248 


are  essential  for  t^ie  ends  of  the  Confederation  and 
consequently  we  ought  to  reserve  for  the  sub- 
divisions as  ample  powers  as  possible.  Customs, 
finance,  laws  regulating  the  currency,  patent 
ric^hts,  Crown  lands  and  those  public  works 
which  are  of  common  interest  for  all  parts  of  the 
province,  ough  to  be  the  principal,  if  not  the 
only  subject  submitted  to  the  control  of  the 
Federal  Government ,  while  all  that  belongs  to 
matters  of  a  purely  local  character,  such  as 
education,  the  administration  of  justice,  the 
militia,  the  laws  relating  to  property,  police, 
&c.,  ought  to  be  referred  to  the  local  govern- 
ments, whose  powers  ought  generally  to  extend 
to  all  subjects  which  would  not  be  given  to  the 
General  Government.  '.The  system  thus  proposed 
would  in  no  way  diminish  the  importance  of  the 
colony  nor  impair  its  credit — 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— From 
what  document  is  mv  hon.  friend  reading? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  am  translating 
from  the  document  published  by  the  Lower 
Canada  liberals  in  1859.     It  continues  : — 

The  proposed  system  would  in  no  way  diminish 
the  importance  of  the  colony,  or  impair  the 
credit,  while  it  presents  the  advantage  of  being 
susceptible,  without  any  disturbance  of  the  fed- 
eral economy,  of  such  territorial  extention  as  cir- 
cumstances may  hereafter  render  desirable. 

Well,   Sir,  I  have  not    a  word  of  all  this 
to   take   back.     I    still   hold  to   the   same 
views,  the  same  opinions.     I  still  think  that 
a  Federal  union  of  Canada  might  hereafter 
extend   so  as  to  embrace   other  territories 
either  west  or  east ;  that  such   a  system  is 
well  adapted  to  admit  of  territorial  expan- 
sion without  any  disturbance  of  the  federal 
economy,  but  I  cannot  understand  how  this 
plain  sentence  should  be  considered  by  the 
Hon.  President  of  the  Council,  or  by  other 
hon.    members    who    have   spoken   in   the 
other  House,  as  any  indication  that  I  have 
ever  been  in  favor   of   Confederation  with 
the    other    British    Provinces.      There   is 
nothing  I  have  ever  said  or  written  that  can 
be  construed  to  mean   that  I  was  ever  in 
favor  of  such  a  proposition.     On  the  con- 
trary, whenever  the  question  came  up  I  set 
my  face  against  it.     I   asserted  that  such  a 
confederation  could  only  bring  trouble  and 
embarrassment,  that  there  was  no  social,  no 
commercial   connection    between    the   pro- 
vinces proposed  to   bo   united — nothing  to 
justify  their  union  at  the  present  juncture. 
Of  course   I   do   not   say   that  I   shall  be 
opposed  to  their  Confederation  for  all  time 
to  come.     Population  may  extend  over  the 
wilderness  that  now  lies  between  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  and  ourselves,  and  commer- 


cial intercourse  may  increase  sufficiently 
to  render  Confederation  desirable.  My 
speeches  have  been  paraded  of  late  in  all 
the  ministerial  papers — misconstrued,  mis- 
translated, falsified  in  every  way — for  the 
purpose  of  making  the  public  believe  that 
in  former  times  I  held  different  views  from 
those  I  now  do.  A  French  paper  has  said 
that  I  called  with  all  my  heart  for  the  Con- 
federation of  the  provinces — [que  j'appelais 
de  tons  mes  voeux  la  con/ederation  des  pro- 
vinces) But  I  say  here,  as  I  said  in  1856, 
and  as  I  said  in  1861  also,  that  I  am  opposed  to 
this  Confederation  now.  In  the  Mirror  of  Par- 
liament which  contains  a  report,  though  a 
very  bad  one,  of  my  speech  in  1861,  I  find 
that  I  said  on  that  occasion  :  — 

The  time  may  come  when  it  will  be  necessary 
to  have  a  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces  ; 
*  *  •  but  the  present  time  is  not  for  such  a 
scheme. 

This  is   the  speech    which  has  been   held 
to  signify  that  I  was  anxious  for  Confedera- 
tion, that   I    should    like    nothing   better. 
Why  ?     I  distinctly  said  that  though    the 
time  might   come   when    it  would   become 
necessary,  it  was  not  desirable  under  existing 
circumstances.     (Hear,  hear.)     In  1862   I. 
was  not  in  Parliament;    the  Cartier-?Iac- 
DONALD  Administration  was  dismissed,  and 
my  hon.  friend,  the   member  for  Cornwall 
(Hon.  John  S.    Macdonald),  was    called 
upon  to  form  a  new  one.     He  applied  to  Mr. 
SicoTTE  to  form  the  Lower  Canada  section 
while  he  himself  unJertook  the  formation  of 
the  Upper  Canada  portion.     The  question  of 
representation  by  population  then  necessarily 
came  up  for  settlement — this  time  at  the 
hands  of  the  Liberal  party  who  had  voted  for 
it  year  after  year — and  when   I  came  down 
to  Quebec,  summoned  by  telegraph,  I  found 
the  arrangements  made,   the  policy  of  the 
new  government  was  settled,  representation 
by  population  was  excluded.     (Hear,  hear.) 
The  Liberal  party  from  Upper  Canada,  sir, 
to  my  surprise,  had  decided  that  it  was  not 
to  be  taken  up — that  they  were  going  into 
office  just  as  the  Conservative  party  had  done 
before  on   a  similar  occasion   in  1854;   they 
decided  that  they  would  sustain  an  Admiuis 
tration  which  made  it  a  closed  question,  and 
whose  members  all   pledged  themselves   to 
vote  against  it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.RANKIN— No,  no. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— If  not,  1  was  mis- 
informed. I  certainly  understood  that  the 
Administration  was  formed  on  the  under- 


249 


standing  that  every  member  of  it  should 
votQ  against  the  question  of  representation 
by  population  whenever  it  came  up,  and  that 
the  Upper  Canada  party  would  support  the 
Administration  so  formed.  At  any  rate  the 
Upper  Canada  Liberal  party  supported,  for 
eleven  months,  a  government  pledged  to  ex- 
clude representation  by  population  from  the 
category  of  open  questions,  and  agreed  to  lay 
that  questiou  aside. 

Mr.  Mckenzie  (Lambton)— No,  no. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — I  hear  an  honorable 
gentleman  say  it  was  not  so,  that  he  did  not 
agree  to  lay  aside  representation  by  popula- 
tion then,  but  if  he  did  not  then  has  he  not 
done  so  since  ?  He  declared  at  a  public 
meeting  the  other  day  that  representation 
by  population  was  no  cure  for  the  evils  afflict- 
ing Upper  Canada.  The  members  from 
Upper  Canada  who  had  joined  the  Mac- 
DONALD-SlCOTTE  Government  had  certainly 
abandoned  representation  by  population,  by 
entering  into  an  Administration  which  bound 
every  one  of  them  to  vote  against  it.  The 
Hon.  Provincial  Secretary  had  stated  pub- 
licly in  Ottawa,  in  January,  1864,  that  it  had 
been  abandoned  by  the  Liberal  party  at  the 
Toronto  Convention  in  1859 ;  and  although 
he  had  at  the  time  been  soundly  abused  for 
this  by  the  Glohe  and  by  those  of  his  party 
who  look  to  the  Glohe  as  their  political  gos- 
pel, he  had  now  the  satisfaction  of  seeing 
the  hon.  member  for  Lambton,  and  some 
others  who  formerly  held  very  strong  views 
on  this  question,  acknowledge,  as  they  had 
done  at  a  public  meeting  held  at  Toronto 
about  three  weeks  ago,  that  they  also  con- 
sidered representation  by  population  as  ap- 
plied to  Canada  no  remedy  for  the  Upper 
Province,  and  that  it  was  not  a  measure  the 
liberals  ought  to  insist  upon,  and  that  it  had 
been  abandoned.  (Hear,  hear  and  laughter.) 
Yes,  the  question  was  in  effect  abandoned 
when  in  November,  1859,  six  hundred 
delegates  from  all  parts  of  Upper  Canada 
attended  the  Eeform  Convention  at  Toronto, 
and  agreed  to  advocate  a  Confederation  of 
the  two  Canadas,  by  giving  to  each  province 
a  local  legislature,  with  some  joint  authority, 
to  carry  on  the  general  business  common  to 
both.  The  hon.  member  on  my  left  was 
present  on  the  occasion — 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Yes  I  was. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— And  the  hon.  mem- 
ber ha.=!  told  me  that  he  never  saw  a  more 
respectable,  a  more  educated,  or  more  intelli- 
gent assemblage  brought  together  in  such 

33 


numbers  to  discuss  public  questions.  But 
that  scheme  did  not  attract  much  attention 
out  of  the  Convention.  It  took  no  hold  on 
the  popular  mind.  Shortly  before  that,  in 
1858,  the  present  Hon.  Finance  Minister, 
who  then  sat  on  the  cross-benches,  made  a 
speech  of  two  or  three  hours'  duration,  in 
which,  with  all  that  force  and  ability  for 
which  he  is  distinguished,  he  expounded  and 
advocated  the  Confederation  of  the  whole  of 
the  British  North  American  Provinces.  He 
was  then  assisted  in  its  advocacy  by  the  pre- 
sent Hon.  iMinister  of  Agriculture ;  and, 
subsequently,  on  becoming  a  member  of  the 
Cartier-Macdonald  Administration,  he 
went  to  England  and  drew  the  attention  of 
the  Imperial  authorities  to  the  scheme  ot 
Confederation  of  all  those  provinces.  The 
Hon.  Finance  Minister  received  an  answer 
not  very  encouraging  ;  and  that  which  he 
received  from  this  country  was  still  less  en- 
couraging. There  was  not  even  an  answer 
to  his  speech,  able  though  it  certainly  was  — 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— He  never  ven- 
tured to  propose  any  resolution  to  Parliament. 

Hon.  Mu.  DORION— Though  the  Ad- 
ministration was  formed  with  the  understand- 
ing of  effecting  the  Confederation  of  all  the 
provinces,  and  it  was  the  main  plank  of  their 
platform,  they  never  dared  to  submit  the 
question  to  Parliament  at  all.  (Hear.) 
Subsequently,  in  18(31,  the  hon.  member 
for  South  Oxford  brought  forward  a  motion 
based  on  the  resolution  at  the  Toronto  Con- 
vention. I  spoke  and  voted  for  it.  It  was  in 
perfect  accord  with  a  notice  I  had  given  in 
1856,  and  which  was  road  here  by  the  Hon. 
President  of  the  Council  a  few  nights  ago, 
and  with  my  often-repeated  declarations  that 
I  was  willing  to  adopt  some  measure  calcu- 
lated to  remove  existing  difficulties,  without 
doing  injustice  to  either  section ;  but  while 
I  was  willing  to  do  justice  to  Upper  Canada, 
I  always  declared  that  I  would  not  do  so  by 
sacrificing  the  interests  of  Lower  Canada, 
or  placing  her  in  the  position  of  having  to 
beg  for  justice  at  the  hands  of  the  sisterpro- 
vince.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  always  stated  that 
the  difference  existing  in  the  religious  faith 
of  the  people  of  the  two  sections,  in  their 
language,  in  their  law3,  in  their  prejudices 
even — for  there  are  prejudices  which  were  re- 
spectable and  ought  to  be  respected — would 
prevent  any  member  from  Lower  Canada, 
representing  a  French  constituency,  from 
voting  for  representation  by  population,  pure 
and  simple,  and  thereby  placing  the  people  of 


250 


Lower  Canada  in  tho  position  of  having  to 
trust  for  the  protection  of  their  rights  to 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada,  who  would 
thereby  have  the  majority  in  the  Legisla- 
ture. (Hear.)  There  is  at  this  moment  a 
movement  on  the  part  of  the  British  Pro- 
testants in  Lower  Canada  to  have  some 
protection  and  guarantee  for  their  educa- 
tional establishments  in  this  province  put 
into  the  scheme  of  Confederation,  should  it 
be  adopted  ;  and  far  from  finding  fault  with 
tlicm,  I  respect  them  the  more  for  their 
energy  in  seeking  protection  for  their 
separate  interests.  I  know  that  majorities 
arc  naturally  aggressive  and  how  the  posses- 
sion of  power  engenders  dispotism,  and  I 
can  understand  how  a  majority,  animated 
this  moment  by  the  best  feelings,  might  in 
six  or  nine  months  be  willing  to  abuse  its 
power  and  trample  on  the  rights  of  the 
minority,  while  acting  in  good  faith,  and 
on  what  it  considered  to  be  its  right. 
Wc  know  also  the  ill  feelings  that  might 
be  engendered  by  such  a  course.  I  think 
it  but  just  that  the  Protestant  minority 
should  be  protected  in  its  rights  in 
everything  that  was  dear  to  it  as  a  dis- 
tinct nationality,  and  should  not  lie  at  the 
discretion  of  the  majority  in  this  respect, 
and  for  this  reason  I  am  ready  to  extend  to 
my  Protestant  fellow-citizens  in  Lower 
Canada  of  British  origin,  the  fullest  justice 
in  all  things,  and  I  wish  to  see  their  interests 
us  a  minority  guaranteed  and  protected  in 
every  scheme  which  may  be  adopted.  With 
these  views  on  the  question  of  representa- 
tion, I  pronounced  in  f^vor  of  a  Confedera- 
tion of  the  two  Provinces  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada,  a.s  the  best  means  of  pro- 
tecting the  varied  interests  of  the  two  sec- 
tions. But  the  Confederation  I  advocated 
was  a  real  confederation,  giving  the  largest 
powers  to  the  local  governments,  and  merely 
a  delegated  authority  to  the  General  Govern- 
ment— in  that  respect  differing  in  toto  from 
the  one  now  proposed  which  gives  all  the 
powers  to  the  Central  Government,  and 
reserves  for  the  local  governments  the 
smallest  possible  amount  of  freedom  of 
action.  There  is  nothing  besides  in  what  I 
have  ever  written  or  said  that  can  be  inter- 
preted as  favoring  a  Conlederation  of  all 
the  provinces.  This  I  always  opposed. 
There  is  no  breach  of  confidence  in  my  say- 
ing that  in  tlie  conversations  T  had  with  the 
Hon.  President  of  the  Council,  previous  to 
his  accepting  office,  since  he  has  referred  to 


them  himself  in  a  speech  which  he  made 
when  reelected  at  South  Oxford,  I  posi- 
tively declined  to  support  any  proposi- 
tion for  the  Confederation  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces. Very  true,  sir,  I  did  not  refuse  to 
vote  for  it  in  committee.  I  did  not  vote  at 
all — I  was  not  present  when  the  vote  was 
taken,  but  I  did  not  conceal  my  opposition  to 
it.  In  that  speech  the  Hon.  President  of 
the  Council  also  said  : — 

Before  the  negotiations  were  gone  through 
with,  1  warned  the  Hon.  Messrs.  Hoi.ton  and  Do- 
Riox  to  take  action,  but  they  refused  me.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  felt  all  the  pain  of  a  refusal,  but  they 
left  me  no  resource.  When  the  question  was 
asked  me  by  the  Government,  I  said  I  wanted  six 
members — four  from  Upper  and  two  from  Lower 
Canada.  When  asked  how  many  supporters  I 
could  bring  from  Lower  Canada,  I  replied  that 
since  Hon.  Mr.  DoRiox  did  not  act,  I  could  bring 
no  supporters. 

So,  sir,  I  have  the  best  evidonce  possible 
to  repudiate  the  accusation  that  I  was  iu 
favor  of  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces 
in  the  fact  that,  before  there  was  any  ques- 
tion at  all  as  to  who  should  go  into  the  Gov- 
ernment, I  stated — and  that  in  the  hearing 
of  several  honorable  members  now  present — 
that  I  would  have  nothing  to  do  with  it  be- 
cause I  did  not  conceive  it  would  be  for  the 
interest  of  the  country  to  have  such  a  Con- 
federation, at  all  events  at  the  present  time. 
(Hear.)  Now,  sir,  1  think  I  have  shewn 
that  I  neither  favored  representation  by 
population  pure  and  simple,  nor  a  Confeder- 
ation of  the  provinces  ;  and  when  honorable 
gentlemen  state  that  the  necessity  of  settling 
the  question  of  representation  is  the  origin 
of  this  Federation  scheme,  they  labor  under 
a  grave  misapprehension.  There  is  nothing 
further  from  the  fact.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
representation  question  was  almost  altogether 
abandoned — was  played  out;  there  was  no 
agitation  about  it,  and  certainly  less  than 
there  had  been  for  the  last  ten  years.  The 
honorable  member  for  South  Oxford,  af^cr 
adopting  the  views  of  the  Toronto  Conven- 
tion, still  persisted  iu  advocating  representa- 
tion by  population,  but  so  changed  was  the 
feeling  that  he  could  hardly  got  a  debate  ou 
the  motion  he  made  last  session  for  a  com- 
mittee to  consider  the  constitutional  difficul- 
ties. There  was  then  another  cause  for  this 
Confederation  scheme  of  which  representa- 
tion by  population  was  made  the  pretext. 
It  is  not  80  well  known,  but  far  more  power- 
ful. Ju  the  year  ISlJI,  Mr.  W.viKiN  was 
\  sent  from  England  by  the  Grand   Trunk 


251 


Railway  Company.  He  came  witli  the  dis- 
tinct view  of  making  a  large  claim  on  the 
country  for  aid,  but  iu  the  then  temper  of 
the  people,  he  soon  found  that  he  could  not 
expect  to  obtain  that.  Thinking  that  if  he 
only  could  put  some  new  scheme  afloat  which 
would  give  a  decent  pretext  to  a  well  disposed 
Government,  he  would  quietly  get  the  assist- 
ance required,  he  immediately  started  for 
the  Lower  Provinces,  and  came  back  after 
inducing  people  there  to  resuscitate  the  ques- 
tion of  the  Intercolonial  Railway.  Parties 
were  readily  found  to  advocate  it,  if  Canada 
would  only  pay  the  piper.  (Hear,  and  a 
laugh.)  A  meeting  of  delegates  took  place, 
resolutions  were  adopted,  and  an  application 
was  made  to  the  Imperial  Government  for  a 
large  contribution  to  its  costs,  in  the  shape 
of  an  indemnity  for  carrying  the  troops  over 
the  road.  Mr.  Watkin  and  Hon.  Mr. 
Vankoughnet,  who  was  then  a  member  of 
the  Government,  went  to  England  about 
this  scheme,  but  the  Imperial  authorities 
were  unwilling  to  grant  the  required  assist- 
ance, and  rejected  their  propositions.  Mr. 
"Watkix,  although  baflBed  in  his  expectations, 
did  not  give  up  his  project.  He  returned 
again  to  Canada,  and  by  dint  of  perseverance, 
induced  my  honorable  friend  on  my  right 
(Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald)  and  other  honor- 
able members  of  his  Cabinet  to  enter  into  his 
views.  As  to  the  advantages  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  I  have  not  the  slightest 
idea  that  my  hon.  friend  had  any  suspicion 
whatsoever  of  the  motives  which  animated 
these  Grand  Trunk  officials,  and  that  their 
object  was  to  have  another  haul  at  the  public 
purse  for  the  Grand  Trunk — (laughter) — 
but  this  was  the  origin  of  the  revival  of  the 
scheme  for  constructing  the  Intercolonial 
Railway. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— We  ibund 
the  project  then  left  to  us  as  a  legacy  by  the 
Cartier-Macdonald  Administration. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— So  it  was.  The 
Macdonald-Sicotte  Government  found  the 
matter  so  far  advanced  that  an  arrangement 
had  been  made  for  a  meetin;?  of  delejrates  of 
the  several  provinces  to  consider  again  this 
railway  scheme,  the  other  project  having 
failed.  At  this  meeting  of  delegates,  which 
took  place  in  September,  1862,  a  new  scheme 
for  building  the  Intercolonial  was  adopted, 
by  which  Canada  was  to  pay  five-twelfths 
and  the  Lower  Provinces  seven-twelfths.  So 
unpopular  was  this  arrangement  that  when 
its  terms  were  made  known,  if  a  vote  of  the 


people  had  been  taken  upon  it,  not  ten  out 
of  every  hundred,  from  Sandwich  to  Gaspe, 
would  have  declared  in  its  favor,  although 
Canada  was  only  to  pay  five-twelfths  of  its 
cost.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  project  having  fail- 
ed, some  other  scheme  had  to  be  concocted  for 
bringing  aid  and  relief  to  the  unfortunate 
Grand  Trunk — and  the  Confederation  of  all 
the  British  North  American  Provinces 
naturally  suggested  itself  to  the  Grand 
Trunk  officials  as  the  surest  means  of  bring- 
ing with  it  the  construction  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
Such  was  the  origin  of  this  Confederaticn 
scheme.  The  Grand  Trunk  people  are  at 
the  bottom  of  it ;  and  I  find  that  at  the 
last  meeting  of  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway 
Company,  Mr.  Watkin  did  in  advance 
congratulate  the  shareholders  and  bond- 
holders on  the  bright  prospects  opening 
before  them,  by  the  enhanced  value  which 
will  be  given  to  their  shares  and  bonds,  by 
the  adoption  of  the  Confederation  scheme 
and  the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial 
as  part  of  the  scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  re- 
peat, sir,  that  representation  by  population 
had  very  little  to  do  with  bringing  about 
this  measure.  The  Tache-Macdonald 
Government  were  defeated  because  the  House 
condemned  them  for  taking  without  author- 
ity 0100,000  out  of  the  public  chest  for  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway,  at  a  time  when  there 
had  not  been  a  party  vote  on  representa- 
tion by  population  for  one  or  two  sessions. 
Those  who  had  been  the  loudest  in  their 
advocacy  of  it,  had  let  it  drop.  I  was  track- 
ed throuo;h  Lower  Canada  as  beinsr  willinrr 
to  sell  Lower  Canada,  grant  representation 
by  population,  and  destroy  Lower  Canadian 
institutions.  I  thank  God,  sir,  I  never  in- 
sulted Upper  Canada,  like  some  of  those 
who  reviled  me.  I  never  compared  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada  to  so  many  codfish.  I 
shewed  on  the  contrary  that  I  was  always 
willing  to  meet  the  just  claims  of  Upper 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  without  any 
demand  whatever  for  the  agitation  of  this 
question,  the  moment  the  Government  was 
defeated  and  there  was  a  necessity  for  resign- 
ing or  going  before  the  people,  these  gentle- 
men opposite  prepared  to  embrace  their 
greatest  opponents  and  said  to  themselves, 
"  We  will  make  everything  smooth,  we  will 
forget  past  difficulties,  provided  we  can  but 
keep  our  •eats." 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— (ir- 
onically) — Hear,  hear. 


^52 


Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  hear  a  voice,  sir, 
■which  is  well  known  in  this  House,  the  voice 
of  the  Attorney  General  West,  saying  "hear, 
hear."  But  what  was  the  course  of  that  hon. 
gentleman  last  year,  when  the  hon,  member 
for  South  Oxford  had  a  committee  appointed 
to  whom  was  referred  the  despatch  written 
by  his  three  colleagues,  the  Minister  of  Fi- 
nance, the  Attorney  General  East  and  the 
Hon.  Mr.  Ross,  who  is  now  no  longer  a  minis- 
ter. He  voted  against  the  appointment  of 
the  committee,  and,  after  it  was  named,  as  a 
member  of  it,  he  voted  against  the  prin- 
cipb  of  Confederation.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— 
Hear,  hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORTON— The  last  vote  taken 
in  that  committee  was  about  the  middle  of 
June,  the  very  day  of  the  crisis,  and  the 
hon.  gentleman  voted  against  the  principle 
of  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  in 
accordance  with  the  opinions  he  again  and 
again  expressed  in  this  House,  as  being 
opposed  to  all  Confederation  whatever. 
(Hear.)  When  I  state  that  these  gentlemen 
only  found  out  that  Confederation  was  a 
panacea  for  all  evils,  a  remedy  for  all  ills, 
when  their  scats  as  ministers  were  in  danger, 
I  come  to  this  conclusion  quite  legitimately, 
from  facts  which  are  well  known  to  this 
House.  (Hear,  hear.)  But,  sir,  it  would 
probably  be  of  very  little  moment  whether 
I  was  formerly  in  favor  of  Confederation  or 
against  it,  or  whether  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  West  was  in  favor  of  Confederation 
or  opposed  to  it,  if  the  scheme  proposed  to 
us  were  an  equitable  one,  or  one  calculated 
to  meet  the  wishes  of  the  people  of  this 
country ;  but,  as  I  said  a  minute  ago,  the 
scheme  was  not  called  for  by  any  consider- 
able proportion  of  the  population.  It  is  not 
laid  before  the  House  as  one  which  was 
demanded  by  any  number  of  the  people ;  it 
is  not  brought  down  iu  response  to  any  call 
from  the  people;  it  is  a  device  of  men  who 
are  in  difficulties,  for  the  purpose  of  getting 
out  of  them.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  members 
of  the  Taciii^-Macdonald  Government 
could  not  appeal  to  the  country  after  their 
defeat  upon  the  question,  whether  they  were 
justified  in  taking  $100,000  out  of  the  pub- 
lic chest,  iu  addition  to  the  millions  they 
had  previously  taken,  without  the  consent  of 
Parliament ;  so,  having  either  to  give  up 
their  seats  or  evade  that  particular  issue, 
they  abandoned  all  their  previous  opinions, 
and  joined  the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford 
in  carrying  out  this  ConfederaUon  scheme. 


(Hear.)  I  come  now  to  another  point,  viz., 
is  the  scheme  presented  to  us  the  same 
one  that  was  promised  to  us  by  the  Adminis- 
tration when  it  was  formed  ?  This,  sir, 
might  be  but  of  slight  importance  if  the 
manner  in  which  this  proposed  Constitution 
was  framed  had  not  a  most  unfortunate  bear- 
ing on  the  scheme  itself;  but  it  is  a  grave 
matter,  since  the  scheme  is  so  objectionable, 
especially  as  we  are  gravely  told  that  it  can- 
noc  be  amended  in  the  least,  but  that  it  is 
brought  down  as  a  compact  made  between 
the  Government  of  this  country  and  delegates 
from  the  governments  of  Nova  Scotia,  New 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland,  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island — as  a  treaty  which  cannot  be 
altered  or  amended  in  any  particular. 
(Hear.)  The  plain  meaning  of  this  is,  sir, 
that  the  Lower  Piovinces  have  made  out  a 
Constitution  for  us  and  we  are  to  adopt  it. 
This  fact  will  appear  the  moie  clearly  when 
it  is  considered,  as  was  pointed  out  much  to 
my  surprise,  by  the  hon.  member  for  Hast- 
ings (Mr,  T.  C.  Wallbridge),  that  in  the 
Conference  the  vote  was  taken  by  provinces, 
putting  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  with 
nearly  2,500,000  people,  on  no  higher  level 
than  Prince  Edward  Island,  with  its  80,000 
— on  the  same  level  with  New  Brunswick, 
with  its  250,000 — on  the  same  level  as  Nova 
Scotia,  with  its  330,000. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD— That 
is  entirely  a  mistake. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— It  was  admitted  by 
the  Honorable  the  President  of  the  Council 
the  other  evening. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Mo, 
no  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — It  was  the  champion 
of  representation  by  population  who  made 
the  statement.  He  it  was  that  went  to  Prince 
Edward  Island  and  asked  it  to  frame  a  Con- 
stitution for  this  country.  (Hear  and  laughter.) 
In  order  to  shew,  Mr.  Spe.\ker,  that  I  am  not 
mistaken  in  what  I  state,  that  this  scheme 
is  not  the  one  which  it  was  announced  in  the 
formation  of  this  Administration  was  to  be 
brought  down — in  order  to  prove,  indeed,  that 
it  was  then  determined  not  to  bring  down  such 
a  measure, — I  will  cite  a  declaration  made 
by  members  of  the  Government  as  to  the 
negotiations  which  took  place  at  its  lormatiou. 
I  will  read  from  the  Quebec  .il/bniujc/  Chronicle 
of  June  23rd  : — 

The  IIdh.  Ally.  Gen.  M.icdonai.d,  in  explaiu- 
ing  the  negotiations,  read  the  following  memor- 
andum : 


253 


Memorandum — Confidential. 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  state  that  im- 
mediately after  the  prorogation,  they  will  address 
themselves,  in  the  most  earnest  manner  to  the  ne- 
gotiation for  a  Confederation  of  all  the  British 
North  American  Provinces. 

That  failing  a  successful  issue  to  such  negoti- 
ations, they  are  prepared  to  pledge  themselves  to 
legislation  during  the  next  Session  of  Parliament 
for  the  purpose  of  remedying  the  existing  di&cul- 
ties  by  introducing  the  Federal  principle  for 
Canada  alone,  coupled  with  such  provisions  as  will 
permit  the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North- 
western Territory  to  be  hereafter  incorporated 
into  the  Canadian  system. 

That  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  on  the  nego- 
tiations and  settling  the  details  of  th^  promised 
legislation,  a  Royal  Commission  shall  be  issued, 
composed  of  three  members  of  the  Government 
and  three  members  of  the  Opposition,  of  whom 
Mr.  Brown  shall  be  one,  and  the  Government 
pledge  themselves  to  give  all  the  influence  of  the 
Administration  to  secure  to  the  said  Commission 
the  means  of  advancing  the  great  object  in  view. 

This  was  the  first  memorandiiia  conmiuni- 
cated  to  the  member  for  South  Oxford,  but 
that  hon.  member  did  not  accept  of  it.  This 
memorandum  proposed  the  scheme  which  is 
now  brought  to  the  House,  and  I  repeat,  that 
scheme  was  not  accepted  by  the  honorable 
member  for  South  Oxford,  but  an  under- 
standing was  come  to,  which  is  to  be  found 
in  the  next  memorandum,  which  was  com- 
municated to  the  House  in  these  terms : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  pledge  them- 
selves to  bring  in  a  measure  next  session  for  the 
purpose  of  removing  existing  diflSculties,  by  in- 
troducing the  Federal  principle  into  Canada, 
coupled  with  such  provisions  as  will  permit  the 
Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North-West  Terri- 
tory to  be  incorporated  into  the  same  system  of 
government. 

And  the  Government  will  seek,  by  sending 
representatives  to  the  Lower  Provinces  and  to 
England,  to  secure  the  assent  of  those  interests 
which  are  beyond  the  control  of  our  own  legisla- 
tion to  such  a  measure  as  will  enable  all  British 
North  America  to  be  united  under  a  General 
Legislature  based  upon  the  Federal  system. 

There  is  a  vast  difference,  Mr.  Speaker,  be- 
tween these  two  propositions.  The  first  was 
that  the  Government  would  pledge  themselves 
to  seek  a  Confederation  of  the  British  Ameri- 
can Provinces,  and  if  they  failed  in  that  to 
Federate  the  two  Canadas,  and  this  was  reject- 
ed ;  the  second,  which  was  accepted  by  the 
President  of  the  Council,  pledged  the  Govern- 
ment to  bring  in  a  measure  for  the  Confeder- 
ation of  the  two  Canadas,'  with  provision  for 


the  admission  of  the  other  provinces  when 
they  thought  proper  to  enter. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD— When 
they  were  ready. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER-E  very  thing 
is  accomplished. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORIOX— But,  sir,  I  may  be 
asked,  grantbg   all  this,   granting   that   the 
scheme  brought  down  is  not  the  scheme  pro- 
mised  to  us,  what  difference  our  bringing  in 
the    provinces    at    once  can    make  ?      This 
I  will  endeavor  to  explain.     "When  they  went 
into   the    Conference,    honorable     gentlemen 
opposite  submitted  to  have  the  votes  taken 
by  provinces.     Well,  they  have  now  brought 
us  in,  as  was  natural  under  the  circumstances, 
the  most  conservative  measure  ever  laid  before 
a  Parliament.      The  members  of  the  Upper 
House  are  no  longer  to  be  elected,  but  nomin- 
ated, and  nominated  by  whom  ?     By  a  Tory 
or  Conservative  Government  for  Canada,  by 
a  Conservative  Government  in  Nova  Scotia, 
by  a  Conservative  Government  in  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island,  by  a  Conservative  Government 
in  Newfoundland,  the  only  Liberal  Govern- 
ment concerned  in  the  nomination  being  that 
which  is  controlled  by  the  Liberal  party  iv  New 
Brunswick,  whose  fate  depends  on  the  result 
of  the  elections  that  arc  now  going  on  in  that 
province.      Such  a  scheme  would  never  have 
been  adopted  if  submitted  to  the  liberal  peo- 
ple of  Upper  Canada.      When  the    Govern- 
ment went  into  that  Conference   they  were 
bound  by  the  majority,  especially  since  they 
voted  by  provinces,  and  the  1,400,000  of  Up- 
per Canada  with   the    1,100,000   of  Lower 
Canada — together    2,506,006    people — were 
over-ridden  by  900,000  people  of  the  Mari- 
time Provinces.     Were  we  not  expressly  told 
that  it  was  the  Lower  Provinces  who  would  not 
hear  of  our  having  an  elective  Legislative  Coun- 
cil ?    If,  instead  of  going  into  Conference  with 
the  people  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  our  Gov- 
ernment had  done  what  they  pledged  them- 
selves to  do,  that  is,  to  prepare  a  Constitution 
themselves,  they  would  never  have  dared  to 
bring  in  such  a  proposition  as  this  which  is 
now  imposed  upon  us  by  the  Lower  Colonies 
— to  have  a  Legislative  Council,  with  a  fixed 
number  of  members,  nominated  by  four  Tory 
governments.     Why,  taking  the  average  time 
each  councillor  will  be  in  the  Council  to  be 
fifteen  to  twenty  years,  it  will  take  a  century 
before  its  complexion  can  be  changed.     For 
all  time  to  come,  so  far  as  this  generation  and 
the   next  are  concerned,   you   will   find   the 
Legislative  Council  controlled  by  the  influ- 
ence of  the  present  Government.     And  is  it 


254 


to  be  believed  that,  as  promised  in  the  docu- 
ment we  are  considering,  such  a  Government 
as  we  have  "  will  take  care  of  the  Opposition, 
or  consider  their  right  to  be  represented  in 
the  Council?"  (Hear,  and  laughter.)  Sir,  I 
thank  the  delegates  for  their  kind  solicitude 
for  the  Opposition,  but  I  do  not  believe  they 
will  do  anything  of  the  kind.  Have  we  not 
heard  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  West, 
a  few  nights  ago,  state,  turning  to  his  follow- 
ers, "  If  I  were  to  advise  the  nomination,  I 
should  advise  the  selection  of  the  best  men  I 
could  find — and  of  course  of  my  own  party  ?" 
(Hear.)  So  it  will  be,  sir ;  and,  if  this  pre- 
cious scheme  is  carried,  we  shall  have  a  Legis- 
lative Council  divided  in  the  following  pro- 
portion : — For  Upper  Canada,  we  should  pro- 
bably have  liberals  in  the  proportion  of  three 
to  nine ;  for  I  suppose  the  honorable  member 
for  South  Oxford  has  made  sacrifices  enough 
to  deserve  at  least  that  consideration,  and,  as 
his  friends  compose  one-fourth  of  the  Execu- 
tive Council,  1  dare  say  we  should  get  one- 
fourth  of  the  Upper  Canada  Legislative 
Councillors  liberal  too. 
Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Hear, 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Just  25  per  oent. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Just  25  per  cent,  of 
liberals  for  Upper  Canada.  Then,  in  addi- 
tion, we  should  get  from  Nora  Scotia  ten 
conservatives,  from  Prince  Edward  Island 
four  more,  and  four  from  Newfoundland. 
Thus  wc  shall  hare  eighteen  conservatives 
from  the  Lower  Provinces,  which,  added  to 
thirty-six  from  Canada,  would  make  fifty -four 
conservatives  against  twenty-two  liberals, 
taking  the  ten  New  Brunswick  councillors  to 
be  all  liberals.  Now,  supposing  three  per 
C2nt.  as  the  average  number  of  deaths  per 
aanum — the  average  proportion  of  change — 
it  would  take  nearly  thirty  years  to  bring 
about  a  change  in  the  character  of  a  majority 
(if  the  Council,  even  supposing  all  the  addi- 
tions made  to  it  to  be  from  the  liberal  ranks. 
But,  sir,  that  will  hardly  be  the  case.  In 
some  of  tlie  Lower  Provinces  there  will  1)C 
Conservative  governments  now  and  then,  and 
there  may  occasionally  be  conservative  gov- 
ernments in  Canada.  (Hear,  and  laughter.)  So 
this  generation  will  certainly  pass  away  before 
the  views  of  the  Liberal  party  will  ever  find 
cxprcsHii  ,n  in  the  decisions  of  the  Upper  House. 

Mr.  MACKENZIE  (Lambton)— That 
makes  no  difference,  as  between  the  two  mea- 
sures. 

H(.N.  Mr.  DORION  — The  honorable 
member  for  Lambton  says  that  makes  no  dif- 


ference. It  makes  just  the  difference  that 
we  are  to  be  bound  by  the  scheme  or  by  a 
Constitution  enabling  the  Council  to  stop  all 
measures  of  reform,  such  as  would  be 
desired  by  the  Liberal  party;  if  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Lambton  thinks  that 
makes  no  difference,  I  beg  to  differ  from 
him,  and  I  beUeve  the  Liberal  party  generally 
will.  The  Government  say  they  had  to  in- 
troduce certain  provisions,  not  to  please  them- 
selves, but  to  please  the  provinces  below, 
and  they  have  pledged  themselves  to  those 
provinces  that  this  House  will  carry  out  the 
scheme  without  amendment.  Does  not  the 
honorable  member  see  the  difference  now  ? 
If  the  two  Canadas  were  alone  interested,  the 
majority  would  have  its  own  way — would  look 
into  the  Constitution  closely — would  scan  its 
every  doubtful  provision,  and  such  a  proposal 
as  this  about  the  Legislative  Council  would 
have  no  chance  of  being  carried,  for  it  is  not 
very  long  since  the  House,  by  an  overwhelm- 
ing majority,  voted  for  the  substitution  of  an 
elected  for  a  nominated  Upper  Chamber.  In 
fact,  the  nominated  Chamber  had  fallen  so 
low  in  public  estimation — I  do  not  say  it  was 
from  the  fault  of  the  men  who  were  there, 
but  the  fact  is,  neverthelest),  as  I  state  it — 
that  it  commanded  no  influence.  There  was 
even  a  difficulty  in  getting  a  quorum  of  it 
together.  So  a  change  became  absolutely 
necessary,  and  up  to  the  present  moment  the 
new  system  has  worked  well ;  the  elected 
members  are  equal  in  every  respect  to  the 
nominated  ones,  and  it  is  just  when  we  see 
an  interest  beginning  to  be  felt  in  the  proceed- 
ings of  the  Upper  House  that  its  Constitution 
is  to  be  changed,  to  return  back  again  to  the  one 
BO  recently  condemned.  Back  again,  did  I 
say  ?  No,  sir,  a  Constitution  is  to  be  substi- 
tuted, much  worse  than  the  old  one,  and  such 
as  is  nowhere  else  to  be  found.  Why.  even 
the  British  House  of  Lords,  conservative  as 
it  is,  is  altogether  beyond  the  influence  of  tho 
popular  sentiment  of  the  country.  Their 
number  may  be  increased  on  the  recommen- 
dation of  the  responsible  advisers  of  the 
Crown,  if  required  to  secure  united  action  or 
to  prevent  a  conflict  between  the  two  Houses. 
From  the  position  its  members  occupy,  it  is  a 
sort  of  compromise  between  the  popular  ele- 
ment and  the  influence  or  control  of  the 
Crown.  But  the  new  House  for  the  Contod- 
eration  is  to  be  a  perfectly  independent  body 
— these  jjontlemen  are  to  be  named  for  life — 
and  there  is  to  be  no  power  to  increase  their 
number.  How  long  will  the  system  work 
without   producing   a   collision    between    the 


^55 


two  branches  of  the  Legislature  ?  Suppose  the 
Lower  House  turns  out  to  be  chiefly  Liberal, 
how  long  will  it  submit  to  the  Upper  House, 
named  by  ConserTative  administrations  which 
have  taken  advantage  of  their  temporary  nu- 
merical strength  to  bring  about  such  a  change 
as  is  now  proposed  ?  Remember,  sir,  that,  af- 
ter all,  the  power,  the  influence  of  the  popular 
branch  of  the  Legislature  is  paramount.  We 
have  seen  constitutions  like  that  of  England 
adopted  in  many  countries,  and  where  there  ex- 
isted a  nobility,  such  as  in  France  in  1830, 
the  second  chamber  was  selected  from  this 
nobility.  In  Belgium,  where  the  Constitu- 
tion is  almost  a  facsimile,  of  that  of  Eng- 
land, but  where  there  are  no  aristocracy,  they 
adopted  the  elective  principle  for  the  Upper 
House,  and  no  where  in  the  world  is  there  a 
fixed  number  for  it,  unless  it  is  also  elective. 
It  must  be  fresh  in  the  memory  of  a  great 
many  members  of  this  House  how  long  the 
House  of  Lords  resisted  the  popular  demand 
for  reform,  and  great  difficulties  were  threat- 
ened. At  last  in  1832  the  agitation  had 
become  so  great  that  the  Government  de- 
termined to  nominate  a  sufficient  number  of 
peers  to  secure  the  passage  of  the  Reform 
Bill,  The  members  of  the  House  had  to 
choose  between  allowing  the  measure  to  be- 
come law,  or  see  their  influence  destroyed  by 
tl\e  addition  of  an  indefinite  number  of  mem- 
bers. They  preferred  the  first  alternative,  and 
thereby  quieted  an  excitement,  which  if  not 
checked  in  time,  might  have  created  a  revo- 
lution in  England.  The  influence  of  the 
Crown  was  then  exerted  in  accordance  with 
the  views  of  the  people ;  but  here  we  are  to 
have  no  such  power  existing  to  check  the  ac- 
tion of  our  Upper  Chamber,  and  no  change 
can  be  made  in  its  composition  except  as 
death  might  slowly  remove  its  members.  I 
venture  to  prophesy,  sir,  that  before  a  very 
short  time  has  elapsed  a  dead-lock  may  arise, 
and  such  an  excitement  be  created  as  has 
never  yet  been  seen  in  this  country.  (Hear, 
he^l^.)  Now,  if  this  Constitution  had  been 
framed  by  the  members  of  our  Government, 
we  could  change  some  of  its  provisions — this 
provision  would  most  certainly  be  altered — 
there  is  not  a  nun  in  the  Liberal  ranks  who 
dare  vote  for  such  a  proposition  as  this,  that 
could  go  before  his  constituents  and  say,  "  I 
have  taken  away  the  influence  and  control  of 
the  people  over  the  Upper  Chamber,  and  I 
have  created  an  entirely  independent  body,  to 
be  chosen  by  the  present  governments  of  the 
several  provinces."  But  no,  the  Constitution 
is  in  the  nature  of  a  compact,  a  treaty,  and 


cannot  be  changed.  (Hear.)  But,  sir,  the 
composition  of  the  Legislative  Council  be- 
comes of  more  importance  when  we  consider 
that  the  governors  of  the  local  legislatures 
are  to  be  appointed  by  the  General  Govern- 
ment, as  well  as  the  Legislative  Council ; 
their  appointment  is  to  be  for  five  years,  and 
they  are  not  to  be  removed  without  cause.  I 
will  venture  upon  another  prediction  and  say 
we  shall  find  there  will  be  no  such  thing  as 
responsible  government  attached  to  the  local 
legislatures. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— There  cannot  be. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— There  will  be  two, 
three,  or  four  ministers"chosen  by  the  lieute- 
nant-governors and  who  will  conduct  the  ad- 
ministration of  the  country,  as  was  formerly 
done  in  the  times  of  Sir  Francis  Bond  Heap, 
Sir  John  Colborn,  or  Sir  James  Craig.  You 
will  have  governments,  the  chief  executives 
of  which  will  be  appointed  and  hold  office  at 
the  will  of  the  Governor.  If  that  is  not  to 
be  the  case,  why  do  not  honorable  gentlemen 
lay  their  scheme  before  us?  (Hear.)  Is  this 
House,  sir,  going  to  vote  a  Constitution  with 
the  Upper  House  as  proposed,  without  knowing 
what  sort  of  local  legislatures  we  are  to  have 
to  govern  us  ?  Suppose,  after  we  have  adopt- 
ed the  main  scheme,  the  Government  come 
down  with  a  plan  for  settling  the  local  legisla- 
tures upon  which  great  difi'erences  of  opinion 
will  arise,  may  it  not  happen  then  that  the 
majority  from  Lower  Canada  will  unite  with  a 
minority  from  Upper  Canada  and  impose  upon 
that  section  a  local  Constitution  distasteful  to 
a  large  majority  of  the  people  of  Upper  Canada. 
The  whole  scheme,  sir,  is  absurd  from  begin- 
ning to  end.  It  is  but  natural  that  gentlemen 
with  the  views  of  honorable  gentlemen  oppo- 
site want  to  keep  as  much  power  as  possible 
in  the  hands  of  the  Government — that  is  the 
doctrine  of  the  Conservative  party  everywhere 
— that  is  the  line  which  distinguishes  the 
tories  from  the  whigs — the  tories  always 
side  with  the  Crown,  and  the  liberals  always 
want  to  give  more  power  and  influence  to  the 
people.  The  instincts  of  honorable  gentlemen 
opposite,  whether  you  take  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  East  or  the  Hen.  Attorney  General 
West,  lead  them  to  this — they  think  the  hands 
of  the  Crown  should  be  strengthened  and  the 
influence  of  the  people,  if  possible,  diminish- 
ed— and  this  Constitution  is  a  specimen  of 
their  handiwork,  with  a  Governor-General 
appointed  by  the  Crown  ;  with  local  govern- 
ors also,  appointed  by  the  Crown ;  with  legis- 
lative councils,  in  the  General  Legislature, 
and  in   all  the  provinces,   nominated  by  the 


256 


Crowu ;  we  shall  have  the  most  illiberal  Con- 
stitution ever  heard  of  in  any  country  where 
constitutional  government  prevails.  (Hear.) 
The  Speaker  of  the  Legislative  Council  is 
also  to  be  appointed  by  the  Crown,  this  is 
another  step  backwards,  and  a  little  piece  of 
patronage  for  the  Government.  We  have 
heard  in  a  speech  lately  delivered  in  Prince 
Edward  Island  or  New  Brunswick,  I  forget 
which,  of  the  allurements  offered  to  the  dele- 
gates while  here  in  the  shape  of  prospective 
appointments  as  judges  of  the  Court  of  Appeal, 
Speaker  of  the  Legislative  Council,  and  local 
governors — (hear,  hear) — as  one  of  the  rea- 
sons assigned  for  the  great  unanimity  which 
prevailed  in  the  Conference. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— They  will  divide 
all  these  nice  things  amongst  them.  (Laugh- 
ter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  do  not  accuse 
honorable  gentlemen  of  holding  out  these  in- 
ducements, I  only  mention  the  fact  from  a 
speech  I  have  read  on  the  subject. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— It  was  a  speech  of 
one  of  the  delegates.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — I  now  come  to  an- 
other point.  It  is  said  that  this  Confedera- 
tion is  necessary  for  the  purpose  of  providing 
a  better  mode  of  defence  for  this  country. 
There  may  be  people  who  think  that  by  add- 
ing two  and  two  together  you  make  five.  I 
am  not  of  that  opinion.  I  cannot  see  how  by 
adding  the  700,000  or  800,000  people,  the 
inhabitants  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  to 
the  2,500,000  inhabitants  of  Canada,  you 
can  multiply  them  so  as  to  make  a  much 
larger  force  to  defend  the  country  than  you 
have  at  present.  Of  course  the  connection 
with  the  British  Empire  is  the  link  of  com- 
munication by  which  the  whole  force  of  the 
Empire  can  be  brought  together  for  defence. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  the  position  of  this  coun- 
try under  the  proposed  scheme  is  very  evident. 
You  add  to  the  frontier  four  or  five  hundred 
more  miles  than  you  now  have,  and  an  extent 
of  country  immeasurably  greater  in  pro- 
portion than  the  additional  population  you 
have  gained  ;  and  if  there  is  an  advantage  at 
all  for  the  defence  of  the  country,  it  will 
be  on  the  part  of  the  Lower  Provinces  and 
not  for  us.  And  as  we  find  that  we  are 
about  to  enter  into  a  very  large  expendi- 
ture for  this  purpose  of  defence — tliis  having 
been  formally  announced  in  a  speech  deliv- 
ered by  the  President  of  the  Council  at  To- 
ronto— and  as  Canada  is  to  contribute  to 
that  expenditure  to  the  extent  of  ten-tweliths 
of  the  whole,  the  other  provinces  paying  only 


two-twelfths,  it  follows  that  Canada  will  pay 
ten-twelfths  also  of  the  cost  of  defence,  which, 
to  defend  the  largely  extended  country  we 
will  have  to  defend,  will  be  much  larger  than 
if  we  remained  alone.  I  find  in  the  speech 
delivered  by  the  President  of  the  Council  on 
that  occasion,  this  statement : — 

I  cannot  conclude  without  referring  to  some 
other  things  which  have  received  the  grave  atten- 
tion of  the  Conference.  And  the  first  point  to 
which  I  desire  to  call  attention  is  the  fact  that 
the  delegates  have  unanimously  resolved  that  the 
united  provinces  shall  be  placed  at  the  earliest 
moment  in  a  thorough  state  of  defence.  The 
attacks  which  have  been  made  upon  us  have  cre- 
ated the  impression  that  these  provinces  are  in  a 
weak  and  feeble  state ;  if.  then,  we  would  do 
away  with  this  false  impression  and  place  our- 
selves on  a  firm  and  secure  footing  in  the  eyes  of 
the  world,  our  course  must  be  to  put  our  country 
in  such  a  position  of  defence  that  we  may  fear- 
lessly look  our  enemies  in  the  face.  It  is  a 
pleasure  to  me  to  state,  and  I  am  sure  it  must  be 
a  pleasure  to  all  present  to  be  informed,  that  the 
Conference  at  Quebec  did  not  separate  before 
entering  into  a  pledge  to  put  the  military  and 
naval  defences  of  the  united  provinces  in  a  most 
complete  and  satisfactory  condition. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Where  is  that  re- 
solution ?     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— It  appears  then  that 
our  course  is  to  put  "  the  military  and  naval 
defences  "  into  "  a  most  complete  and  satis- 
factory condition."  Now  I  find  that,  accord- 
ing to  these  resolutions,  the  General  Govern- 
ment is  to  have  control  of  "  the  military  and 
naval  defences,"  but,  of  course,  the  cost  of 
them  is  not  stated.  This  I  contend,  then, 
that  if  the  military  and  naval  defences  of  all 
the  provinces  are  to  be  provided  for  by  the 
General  Government,  and  if  you  have  to  in- 
crease the  militia  for  this  purpose,  the  Lower 
Provinces  will  pay  only  their  proportion  of 
two-twelfths,  and  Canada,  while  obtaining  no 
greater  defensive  force  than  at  present,  will 
have  to  pay  five  times  as  much  as  we  are  now 
paying.  (Hear,  hear.)  Why,  sir,  take  the 
line  dividing  New  Brunswick  from  Maine  and 
you  find  it  separates  on  the  one  side  250,000, 
thinly  scattered  over  a  vast  territory,  from 
750,000  on  the  other,  compact  and  powerful. 
These  250,000  Canada  will  have  to  defend, 
and  it  will  have  to  pledge  its  resources  for  the 
purpose  of  providing  means  of  defence  along 
that  extended  line.  (Hear,  hear.)  And,  if 
rumor  be  true,  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  this 
so-called  great  dcfcnsi\c  work,  is  not  to  pass 
along  Major  Robinson's  line.  The  statement 
has  been  made — I  have  seen  it  in  newspaper.'^ 
usually  well  informed — that  a  new  roTitc  has 


257 


been  found  that  will  satisfy  everybody  or 
nobody  at  all ;  and  while  I  am  on  this  point  I 
must  say  that  it  is  most  singular  that  we  are 
called  upon  to  vote  these  resolutions,  and  to 
pledge  ourselves  to  pay  ten-twelfths  of  the 
cost  of  that  railway,  without  knowing  whether 
there  will  be  teu  miles  or  one  hundred  miles 
of  it  in  Lower  Canada,  or  whether  it  will  cost 
$10,000,000  or  820,000,000. 

HOiN.  3Ir.  HOLTON— It  will  be  nearer 
$40,000,000.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— In  1862,  when  the 
question  of  the  construction  of  this  road  was 
before  the  country,  what  was  the  cry  raised 
by  honorable  gentlemen  opposite  ?  Why,  that 
the  Macdonald-Sicotte  G-overnment  had 
pledged  itself  to  build  a  railway  at  whatever 
cost  it  might  come  to  ;  and  those  who  were 
loudest  in  these  denunciations,  were  the  very 
gentlemen  who  have  now  undertaken  to  build 
the  road  without  knowing  or  even  enquiring 
what  the  cost  of  it  will  be.  (Hear,  hear.) 
This,  if  I  remember  right,  was  the  purport  of 
a  speech  made  by  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  at  Otterville.  (Hear,  hear.j  I  was 
satisfied,  sir,  at  that  time,  to  press  my  objec- 
tions to  the  scheme  and  retire  from  the 
Government ;  but  my  colleagues  were  de- 
nounced without  stint  for  having  undertaken 
to  build  the  railway  and  pay  seven-twelfths  uf 
its  cost,  and  now  the  House  is  asked  by  the 
very  men  who  denounced  them  to  pay  ten- 
twelfths  of  it,  without  even  knowing  whether 
the  work  is  practicable  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  have  heard  for  some  time  past  that  the 
engineer,  Mr.  Fleming,  is  prepared  to  make 
his  report.  Why  is  it  not  forthcoming  ? — 
why  has  it  been  kept  back  ?  The  represen- 
tatives of  the  people  in  this  House  will  show 
an  utter  disregard  of  their  duty  if  they  do 
not  insist  upon  having  that  report,  and  full 
explanations  respecting  the  undertaking,  as 
well  as  the  scheme  for  the  constitution  of  the 
local  governments,  before  they  vote  upon  the 
resolutions  before  the  House.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  folly  to  suppose  that  this  Intercolonial 
Railway  will  in  the  least  degree  be  con- 
ducive to  the  defence  of  the  country.  We 
have  expended  a  large  sum  of  money — and 
none  voted  it  more  cordially  and  heartily  than 
myself — for  the  purpose  of  opening  a  mili- 
tary highway  from  Gaspe  to  Rimouski  ; 
and  that  road,  in  case  of  hostilities  with  our 
neighbors,  would  be  found  of  far  greater  ser- 
vice for  the  transport  of  troops,  cannon  and 
all  kinds  of  munitions  of  war,  than  any  rail- 
way following  the  same  or  a  more  southern 

34 


route  possibly  can  be.  That  road  cannot  be 
effectually  destroyed  ;  but  a  railway  lying  in 
some  places  not  more  than  fifteen  or  twenty 
miles  from  the  frontier,  will  be  of  no  use 
whatever,  because  of  the  readiness  with  which 
it  may  be  attacked  and  seized.  An  enemy 
could  destroy  miles  of  it  before  it  would  be 
possible  to  resist  him,  and  in  time  of  difficulty 
it  would  be  a  mere  trap  for  the  troops  passing 
along  it,  unless  we  had  almost  an  army  to  keep 
it  open.  Upon  this  question  of  defence, 
we  have  heird  so  much  during  the  past  two 
or  three  years  that  I  think  it  is  time  now 
we  should  have  some  plain  explanations  about 
it.  We  heard  the  other  day  from  the  honor- 
able member  for  West  IMontreal — and  I  am 
always  glad  to  quote  him,  he  is  usually  so 
correct — (laughter' — that  in  less  than  a  year 
the  American  army,  the  army  of  the  North- 
ern States,  was  increased  from  9,000  to  800,- 
000  men  ready  for  service,  and  that  in  less 
than  four  years  they  were  able  to  put  to  sea 
a  fleet  which,  in  point  of  numbers — I  do  not 
say  in  armament  or  value — was  equal  to  the 
entire  naval  force  of  England.  Well,  the 
honorable  gentleman  might  have  a;one  further 
ana  shown  that  within  a  period  of  four  years 
the  Northern  States  have  called  into  the  field 
2,300,000  men — as  many  armed  men  as  we 
have  men,  women  and  children  in  the  two 
Canadas — and  that  we  hear  every  day  of  more 
being  raised  and  equipped.  It  is  stated  that, 
in  view  of  these  facts,  it  is  incumbent  upon 
us  to  place  ourselves  in  a  state  of  defence. 
Sir,  1  say  it  here  candidly  and  honestly,  that 
we  are  bound  to  do  everything  we  can  to  pro- 
tect the  country — (hear,  hear,) — but  we  are 
not  bound  to  ruin  ourselves  in  anticipation  of 
a  supposed  invasion  which  we  could  not  repel, 
even  with  the  assistance  of  England.  The 
battles  of  Canada  cannot  be  fought  on  the 
frontier,  but  on  the  high  seas  and  at  the  great 
cities  on  the  Atlantic  coast;  and  it  will  be 
nothing  but  folly  for  us  to  cripple  ourselves  by 
spending  fifteen  or  twenty  millions  a  year  to 
raise  an  army  of  50,000  men  for  the  purpose 
of  resisting  an  invasion  of  the  country.  The 
best  thing  that  Canada  can  do  is  to  keep 
quiet,  and  to  give  no  cause  for  war.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Let  the  public  opinion  of  this  country 
compel  the  pres.s  to  cease  the  attacks  it  is 
every  day  making  upon  the  Government  and 
people  of  the  United  States ;  and  then  if  war 
does  come  between  England  and  the  States — 
even  if  from  no  fault  of  ours — we  will  cast 
jur  lot  with  England  and  help  her  to  fight  the 
battle  ;  but  in  the  meantime  it  is  no  use  what- 


258 


ever  to  raise  or  keep  up  anything  like  a  stand- 
ing army. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Will 
my  honorable  friend  let  me  ask  him  how  we  can 
assist  England  in  a  war  on  the  high  seas  un- 
less we  have  a  naval  force  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DOEION— The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Peterborough  stated  the  other  day,  and 
correctly  I  believe,  that  the  place  for  our  mili- 
tia was  behind  the  fortifications  of  our  forti- 
fied places,  where  they  would  count  for  some- 
thing to  be  of  some  use.  No  doubt  of  this. 
Why,  sir,  it  is  absurd  to  speak  of  defending 
this  country  with  such  a  force  as  we  could 
maintain  when  we  have  the  recent  example 
before  our  eyes  of  a  country  in  Europe  pos- 
sessing as  large  a  defensive  force,  literally 
wiped  ofi"  the  map  by  an  invading  army  of 
some  75,000  or  80,000  men.  The"  kingdom 
of  Denmark  consists  now  of  only  two  small 
islands — less  by  far,  in  extent,  than  one  of 
our  large  counties ;  and  this  dismemberment 
has  been  forced  upon  it,  although  it  had  a 
standing  army  of  30,000  men,  and  the  feel- 
ing of  the  whole  population  was  in  favor  of 
the  war.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not  use  this 
argument  for  the  purpose  of  showing  that 
something  ought  not  to  be  done  respecting  our 
militia.  I  am  willinsr  that  we  should  make 
sacrifices,  if  necessary,  for  the  purpose  of  or- 
ganizing it  thoroughly ;  but  I  am  decidedly 
opposed  to  a  standing  army,  and  do  not 
believe  we  could  raise  an  army  now  that 
would  be  able  to  withstand  the  force  that 
could  be  sent  against  it.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  have  sent  to  the  frontier  2,000  men, 
whose  services  for  a  year  will  cost  us  a 
million  and  a-half ;  and  at  the  same  rate 
of  expenditure,  50,000  men  would  cost  us 
over  thirty  millions  of  money.  Now,  if  the 
whole  defence  of  the  country  is  to  rest  upon 
us,  I  ask  again  what  would  such  a  force 
amount  to  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  sir,  when 
I  look  into  the  provisions  of  this  scheme,  I 
find  another  most  objectionable  one.  It  is  that 
whicJi  gives  the  General  Government  control 
over  all  the  acts  of  the  local  legislatures.  What 
diificulties  may  not  arise  under  this  system  '{ 
Now,  knowing  that  the  General  Government 
will  be  party  in  its  character,  may  it  not  for 

!)arty  purposes  reject  laws  passed  by  the 
ocal  legislatures  and  demanded  by  a  majority 
of  the  people  of  that  locality.  This  power 
conferred  upon  the  General  Govern  uicnt 
has  been  compared  to  tlic  veto  powi-r  that 
exists  in  England  in  respect  to  our  legislation; 
but  we  know  that  the  statesmen  of  J<]ugland 
are  not  actuated   by  the  local  feelings  and 


prejudices,  and  do  not  partake  of  the  local 
jealousies,  that  prevail  in  the  colonies.  The 
local  governments  have  therefore  confidence 
in  them,  and  respect  for  their  decisions;  and 
generally,  when  a  law  adopted  by  a  colonial 
legislature  is  sent  to  them,  if  it  does  not 
clash  with  the  policy  of  the  Empire  at  large, 
it  is  not  disallowed,  and  more  especially  of 
late  has  it  been  the  policy  of  the  Imperial 
Government  to  do  whatever  the  colonies  de- 
sire in  this  respect,  when  their  wishes  are 
constitutionally  expressed.  The  axiom  on 
which  they  seem  to  act  is  that  the  less  they 
hear  of  the  colonies  the  better.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  how  difierent  will  be  the  result  in  this 
case,  when  the  General  Government  exercises 
the  veto  power  over  the  acts  of  local  legisla- 
tures. Do  you  not  see  that  it  is  quite  possible 
for  a  majority  in  a  local  government  to  be 
opposed  to  the  General  Government;  and  in 
such  a  case  the  minority  would  call  upon  the 
General  Government  to  disallow  the  laws  en- 
acted by  the  majority  ?  The  men  who  shall 
compose  the  General  Government  will  be  de- 
pendent for  their  support  upon  their  political 
friends  in  the  locil  legislatures,  and  it  may  so 
happen  that,  in  order  to  secure  this  support, 
or  in  order  to  serve  their  own  purposes  or 
that  of  their  supporters,  they  will  veto  laws 
which  the  majority  of  a  local  legislature  find 
necessary  and  good.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
know  how  high  party  feeling  runs  sometimes 
upon  local  matters  even  of  trivial  importance, 
and  we  may  find  parties  so  hotly  opposed  to 
each  other  in  the  local  legislatures,  that  the 
whole  power  of  the  minority  may  be  brought 
to  bear  upon  their  friends  who  have  a  ma- 
jority in  the  General  Legislature,  for  the  pur- 
pose of  preventing  the  passage  of  some  law 
objectionable  to  them  but  desired  by  the  ma- 
jority of  their  own  section.  What  will  be 
the  result  of  such  a  state  of  tilings  but  bit- 
terness of  feeling,  strong  political  acrimony 
and  dangerous  agitation  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Then 
sir,  I  find  that  in  addition  to  all  the  other 
sums  that  are  to  be  paid  by  the  general  to 
the  local  governments,  there  are  provisions 
in  favor  of  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Sco- 
tia, which  must  strike  the  House  as  being 
of  a  rather  extraordinary  nature.  In  the 
document  which  was  sent  by  the  Provincial 
Secretary  to  the  members  ol"  this  Ho-jse 
marked  "Private,"  there  appears  to  have  been 
a  mistake.  It  was  therein  stated  that  the 
General  Government  would  have  no  right  to 
impose  an  export  duty  on  timber,  logs, 
masts  spars,  deals  and  sawn  lumber;  but  that 
the  local  governments  would  have  the  power 


259 


to  impose  export  duties  on  these  articles. 
This  provision,  it  seems,  was  too  favorable  to 
Lower  Canada  ;  for  it  would  have  allowed 
Lower  Canada  to  impose  an  export  duty  upon 
Upper  Canadian  timber. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— As  New  Brunswick 
does  upon  American. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION^And  by  this  means 
raise  a  sufficient  revenue,  at  the  expense  of 
Upper  Canada,  to  meet  its  local  expenditure. 
This  mistoke  seems  to  have  been  corrected, 
for,  in  this  respect,  the  resolutions  before  the 
House  have  been  changed,  but  hardly  amended. 

Hon.  Mr.  itOLTON — Changed  in  a  sense 
hostile  to  Lo^er  Canada.     (Hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  clause  of  the 
resolutions  to  which  I  refer  now  reads,  that 
the  General  Parliament  shall  have  power  to 
make  laws  "  respecting  the  imposition  or  regu- 
lation of  duties  of  customs  on  imports  and 
exports — except  on  exports  of  timber,  logs, 
masts,  spars,  deals  and  sawn  lumber  from 
New  Brunswick,  and  of  coal  and  other  min- 
erals from  Nova  Scotia."  That  is,  the  Gen- 
eral Government  may  impose  a  tax  for  its 
own  benefit  upon  all  timber  and  minerals  ex- 
ported from  Upper  or  Lower  Canada,  but  not 
from  New  Brunswick  or  Nova  Scotia.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Then,  among  the  powers  granted  to 
local  legislatures,  we  find  the  power  to  pass 
by-laws  imposing  direct  taxation.  (Hear, 
hear.)  That  is  the  first  power  they  have, 
and  I  have  no  doubt  that,  before  many 
months  have  passed  after  they  are  consti- 
tuted, they  will  find  it  necessary  to  resort 
to  it.  But,  in  addition  to  this,  I  find  that 
New  Brunswick  and  NoVa  Scotia,  which,  no 
doubt,  are  the  favored  children  of  the  Confed- 
eration, have  powers  not  granted  to  the  other 
provinces.  New  Brunswick,  the  resolution 
declares,  shall  have  the  power  to  impose  an 
export  duty  on  timber,  logs,  masts,  spars, 
deals  and  sawn  lumber,  and  Nova  Scotia  on 
coal  and  other  minerals,  for  local,  purposes ; 
so  that  while  our  timber  and  minerals  export- 
ed from  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  will  be 
taxed  by  the  General  Government  for  general 
purposes,  the  timber  and  minerals  of  New 
Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia  will  be  exempt, 
the  revenue  derived  from  them  goiog  to  the 
benefit  of  the  local  governments,  to  be  ex- 
pended on  local  objects.  (Hear,  hear.)  This 
is  one  of  the  results  of  the  Conference  in 
which,  of  course.  New  Brunswick  counted  as 
much  as  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  and 
Nova  Scotia  and  the  other  Lower  Provinces 
had  the  balance  of  mfluence.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Now,  among  the  other  powers  granted  to  the 


General  Government  is  its  control  over  agri- 
culture and  immigration,  as  well  as  the  fish- 
eries. An  honorable  member  from  Upper 
Canada  (Mr.  Mackenzie  of  Lambton),  en- 
quired very  anxiously,  yesterday,  if  it  was 
possible  that  any  act  respecting  agriculture 
could  be  affected  by  the  General  Government  ? 
Well,  sir,  it  is  as  plain  as  can  be  that  agri- 
culture and  immigration  are  to  be  under  the 
control  of  both  the  local  and  the  general  le- 
gislatures. And  the  forty-fifth  resolution 
says  : — "  In  regard  to  all  subjects  over  which 
jurisdiction  belongs  to  the  general  and  local 
legislatures,  the  laws  of  the  General  Parlia- 
ment shall  control  and  supersede  those  made  by 
the  Local  Legislature,  and  the  latter  shall  be 
void  so  far  as  they  are  repugnant  to  or  incon- 
sistent with  the  former."  What  will  be  the 
operation  of  this  provision  ?  The  Local  Legis- 
lature will  pass  a  law  which  will  then  go  to  the 
General  Government ;  the  latter  will  put  its 
veto  upon  it,  and  if  that  does  not  answer,  it 
will  pass  a  law  contrary  to  it,  and  you  have 
at  once  a  conflict.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Then  they  will 
fight.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  No  sec- 
tional difficulties  then  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  DOKION— Oh!  none  what- 
ever. I  may  pass  now  perhaps  to  the  consid- 
eration of  a  portion  of  the  financial  part  of  the 
scheme.  I  shall  certainly  not  attempt  to  follow 
the  Hon.  Finance  Minister  in  what  I  admit 
was  the  able  statement,  or  rather  able  mani- 
pulation of  figures,  he  made  the  other  day. 
When  that  honorable  gentleman  was  able  to 
prove  to  the  satisfaction  of  the  Barings,  the 
Glyns,  and  the  leading  merchants  of  England 
that  the  investoient  they  would  make  in  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway  would  yield  them  at 
least  11  per  cent.,  it  is  not  astonishing  that  he 
was  able  to  show  to  this  House  that  the  finan- 
ces of  the  Confederation  will  be  in  a  most 
flourishing  condition,  and  that  we  shall  have 
a  surplus  every  year  of  at  least  a  million  dollars. 
(Laughter.)  From  what  I  knew  of  former 
prophecies,  1  imagined  he  would  make  it  eleven 
or  twelve  millions  at  any  rate,  but  he  is  mo- 
dest and  puts  it  down  at  only  a  million.  But 
how  does  he  make  out  even  this  moderate  sur- 
plus ?  He  takes,  in  the  first  place,  the  re- 
venue of  Newfoundland  for  1862.  I  had  the 
curiosity  to  look  for  the  reason,  and  what  do 
you  suppose  it  is  ?  The  revenue  for  1862 
was  the  highest  he  could  find,  except  1860. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Then  he  takes  the  revenue  of 
New  Brunswick,  Nova  Scotia  and  Canada, 
for  1863 — the  highest  figures  again.  (Hear, 
hear.)     Taking  all  this,  he  still  finds  a  de- 


260 


ficiency  of  §827,512,  which  he  provides  for 
by  adding  a  supposed  increase  for  1864  of 
$100,000  for  each  of  the  Provinces  of  Nova 
Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  and  of  $1,500,000 
for  Canada.     (Hear,  hear. )     And  this  leaves 
a  surplus  of  just  §872,488.      (Hear,  hear.) 
Well,  even  granting  that  on  the  31st  of  De- 
cember he  had  a  surplus  of  a  million,  if  at  the 
end  of  the  present  financial  year  it  is  not  dimi- 
nished to  half  a  million  by  his  militia  and 
other  expenditure,  I  shall  be  very  agreeably 
surprised.     (Hear.)     This,   then,   is  the  in- 
ducement he  ofiFers  to  the  country  to  adopt 
this  scheme.      I  have  a  million  more  than  I 
want,  he  exclaims,  and  I  will  reduce  the  du- 
ties to  15  per  cent.      But  the   honorable  gen- 
tleman forgets  that  he  has  the   Intercolonial 
Railway  to  provide  for,  as  well  as  that  military 
and  naval  defensive  force  which  we  are  going 
to  raise,    (Hear,  hear.)    He  forgets  all  this, 
but  the  promise  is  there;  and  just  as  he  held 
out    to    the    expected    shareholders    of    the 
Grand   Trunk  Railway  the  11  per  cent,  divi- 
dends   upon   their   investments,  he  now  tells 
the  people  of  these  several  colonies  that  the 
customs  duties  will  be  reduced  to  15  percent. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  do  not  desire  to  go  over  the 
figures  the  honorable  gentleman  has  laid  before 
the  House,  for  I  have  not  the  talent  of  group- 
ing them  together,  so  as  to  present  an  attrac- 
tive,  but  deceptive,  whole,   that  he  possesses 
in   such  an   eminent   degree.     I  find   in   the 
resolutions  now   proposed  a  few  propositions 
to  which  I  would  call    the  attention   of  the 
House.      The   first  thing  that   the    Confed- 
eration will  have  to  provide  for  is  the  Inter- 
colonial  Railway,    which    will    certainly  cost 
twenty  millions  of  dollars,  the  interest  upon 
which,   at  5  per    cent.,    will    amount  to  one 
million    of  dollars    annually.      (Hear,  hear.) 
Then  to  Newfoundland  we  are  bound   to  pay 
§150,000   a  year,   for    all   time  to   cou.e,  to 
purchase   the    mineral    lands  of  that  colony ; 
while,   as  regards  the  other  provinces,  all  the 
public  laiids  are  given  up  to  the  local  govern- 
ments.     But  that  is  not  all,   for,  in   order  to 
manage  those  "  valuable  lands"  in  Newfound- 
land,   we    shall    have    to    establish    a    Crown 
Lands    department    under  the   General  Gov- 
ernment ;   and  if  honorable  gentlemen  desire 
to  learn  something  of  the  probiible  expense  of 
such  an  establishment,    they  need  only  refer 
to  a  return  brought  down  last  night,  by  which 
they  will  see  that  there  are  no  less  than  sixty 
or  seventy   officers  in   the  Crown    Lands  de- 
partment,  and    that  some   eiglit  or   ten   new 
appointments   have    been  made  since   March 
last,  when  the  present  Goverament  was  formed. 


(Hear,  hear.)  This  return  is  a  highly  in- 
structive one  in  other  respects.  It  shows 
that  within  that  period  there  is  not  a  depart- 
ment of  the  Government  that  has  not  increased 
its  force  of  employes,  except  that  of  the 
Attorney  General  East,  who  is  satisfied  with 
the  three  officers  it  contained  before  he  re- 
turned to  the  Government.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  may  state,  however,  that  in  the  letum 
there  is  an  omission  which  ought  to  be  sup- 
plied. The  honorable  gentleman  has  made  a 
large  number  ot  appointments  connected  with 
the  administration  of  justice  in  Lower  Canada 
that  are  not  mentioned.  This  return  is,  how- 
ever, instructive  as  showing  the  additional 
number  of  appointments  that  have  been  made 
within  the  past  year  in  all  the  departments — 
several  of  whom  have  been  taken  from  their 
seats  in  this  House  and  appointed  to  offices 
to  make  room  for  others  here. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Oh!  there  are  only 
four  of  them — that's  all.     (Lautihter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Then  New  Bruns- 
wick is  to  get  a  special  subsidy  of  §63,000  a 
year  for  ten  years.  It  is  evident  this  sum  is 
voted  to  that  province  to  enable  it  to  avoid 
the  necessity  of  direct  taxation. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Of  course  it  could 
not  impose  direct  taxation,  for  it  has  no  mu- 
nicipal machinery.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Now,  I  find  from  a 
speech  delivered  by  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  the  head 
of  the  New  Brunswick  Government,  that  this 
grant  of  §63,000  a  year,  beyond  the  subsidy 
of  80  cents  per  head  of  the  population  for' the 
purposes  of  local  government,  will  give  New 
Brunswick  §34,000  a-year  over  and  above  all 
its  necessities.  (Hear,  hear.)  Under  these 
circumstances,  there  need  be  no  direct  taxation 
in  that  province.  The  whole  speech  of  Hon. 
Mr.  Tilley,  to  which  I  reier,  would  be  found 
veiy  instructive  if  I  could  read  it  all,  but  I 
am  afraid  of  wearying  the  House.  (Cries  of 
"go  on.")  "Well,  after  reciting  the  various 
advantages  that  will  be  conferred  on  New 
Brunswick  by  Confederation,  Hon.  Mr.  Til- 
ley says : — 

Over  and  above  all  these  advantages,  we  get 
for  ten  yeais  a  subsidy  of  $63,000  per  annum  ; 
ourj^.Iocul  expenditures,  sumnud  u)),  amount  to 
$:!20,630';  and  we  get  from  tlie  Cent  lal  Govern- 
ment, witbout  increastd  taxation,  $;t0,000  in  lieu 
of  our  export  duty  (it  sbtuld  be  "  import  duly.") 
and  casual  territorial  revenue,  nniking  $201,t).{7, 
and  a  spi'cial  subsidy  of  $G."},000  a  year  for  li>n 
ycai-s,  making  in  ,  all  $;{54,{J37,  being  if.lkOOO 
over  and  above  our  prc.-ent  iiocessilies.  /rliese 
are  tbe  principal  points  loukcd  to.   (Hear,  Lear.) 

But,  honorable  gentlemen  will  rememb      Hon- 


«61 


Mr.  TiLLEY  declared — no  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way, no  Confederation — and  Canada  gave  liini 
what  he  wanted.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  not  New 
Brunswick  alone  that  is  to  get  something 
handsome  over  and  above  its  necessities.  I 
have  here  a  letter  from  the  Charlottetown 
(P.  E.  I.)  Examiner,  wherein  Mr.  Whelan, 
the  editor,  and  one  of  the  delegates  at  the 
Quebec  Conference,  sums  up  the  advan- 
tages to  be  obtained  by  Prince  Edward  Island 
pretty  much  as  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  does  for  New 
Brunswick.     He  says : — 

By  this  arrangement  the  debt  of  Prince  Edward 
Island  will  be  guaranteed  to  the  amount  of 
$2,025,001'— the  interest  of  which,  at  five  per 
cent,  will  be  $101,250.  Add  to  this  the  pro- 
portion which  the  Confederation  has  given  to 
each  province  for  the  support  of  their  locnl  ad- 
ministration, at  the  rate  of  80  cents  per  head, 
giving  for  the  population  of  Prince  Edward 
Island,  which  is  81,000.  the  sum  ot  $64,800  ;  we 
have  then  a  total  of  $166,050,  which  Prince 
Edward  Island  will  receive  annually.  Deduct 
from  this  sum  $12.'i00  for  interest  at  five  percent. 
on  our  debt  of  £75,000  or  $240,000,  and  the  bal- 
ance in  our  favor  will  be  $154,050,  w!;ich  su«i  ex- 
ceeds by  nearly  forty-eight  thousand  dollars  the 
actual  cost  of  our  local  affairs,  the  Central  Govern- 
ment undertaking  to  pay  certain  general  expenses. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

The  general  expenses  he  alludes  to  are  the 
salaries  of  the  governor,  judges,  and  so  on, 
which  the  General  Government  will  pay.  Thus^ 
sir,  we  have  Mr.  Whelan,  one  of  the  dele- 
gates, and  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  another,  chuck- 
ling over  the  good  bargains  they  have  made  at 
the  expense  of  Canada,  and  endeavoring  in  this 
manner  to  carry  the  scheme  of  Confederation 
by  showing  that  New  Brunswick  is  to  have 
$34,000  over  and  above  its  necessities,  and 
Prince  Edward  Island  $48,000.  I  would 
advise  the  Hon.  Finance  Minister,  when  he  is 
in  distress  for  want  of  money,  to  go  down  there 
and  borrow  this  surplus  which  we  will  have 
to  pay  to  these  provinces ;  they  will  no  doubt, 
be  willing  to  lend  on  favorable  terms.  (Laugh- 
ter.) I  have  entered  into  a  short  calcula- 
tion to  show  what  proportion  Upper  and  Low- 
er Canada  will  respectively  have  to  bear  of 
these  additional  burdens, — $63,000  a  year  for 
ten  years  to  New  Brunswick,  would  make  a 
capital  at  five  per  cent,  of  about  $350,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— More  near  $400,- 
000. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— My  calculation  is 
rather  under  than  over  the  mark,  but  let  us 
take  $350,000  as  the  capitalized  value  of  this 
annuity  for  ten  years.  That  gives  an  interest 
of  $17,500  per  annum  forever.  Now,  sup- 
posing the  increased  extent  of  territory  to  be 


defended  under  the  Confederation  augments 
the  militia  expenditure  to  the  extent  of  a 
million  a-yeav — this,  I  think,  is  a  very  rea- 
sonable estimate,  and  will  not  go  very  far  to- 
wards carrying  out  the  intentions  of  the  Con- 
ference respecting  military  aiid  naval  defence, 
as  explained  by  the  President  of  the  Council 
to  his  Toronto  audience.  Then  add  the  in- 
terest of  the  sum  required  to  build  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  five  per  cent,  on  $20,000,000, 
and  we  have  an  annual  payment  of  $1,000,000 
more,  which  is  increased  by  $150,000,  the  in- 
demnity paid  to  Newfoundland  for  its  valuable 
mineral  lands.  Then  we  have  to  pay  the  local 
governments,  at  the  rate  of  80  cents  per  head, 
$3,056,849.  The  interest  on  the  debt  of 
Nova  Scotia,  $8,000,000,  will  amount  to  $400,- 
000  ;  on  that  of  New  Brunswick,  $7,000,000, 
to  $350,000 ;  on  that  of  Newfoundland,  $3,- 
250,000,  to  $162,000;  and  on  the  debt  of 
Prince  Edward  Island,  $2,021,425,  to  $101,- 
071.  Adding  all  these  suras  together,  we  find 
that  the  annual  expenditure,  in  addition  be  it 
remembered  to  the  burdens  which  we  now  bear, 
will  be  $6,237,920 — (hear,  hear) — represent- 
ing a  capital  of  $124,758,400.  (Hear,  hear.; 
The  share  of  Canada  in  this  annual  expendi- 
ture will  be  $1.89  per  head,  amounting  to  the 
sum  of  $4,725,000.  This  is  altogether  irres- 
pective of  the  debt  of  $62,500,000  with  which 
Canada  enters  the  union.  The  share  of  Up- 
per Canada,  according  to  population,  will  be 
$2,646,000 ;  but  Upper  Canadians  have  long 
claimed  that  they  paid  upwards  of  two-thirds 
of  the  expenditure,  and  the  Globe  lately 
said  that  this  was  the  proportion  ten  years  ago, 
but  that  the  disparity  had  greatly  increased 
since.  If  Upper  Canada  really  pays  two-thirds 
of  the  expenditure,  its  share  in  the  additional 
but  necessary  expenditure  will  be  $3,183,334 
per  annum.  (Hear,  hear.;  This  is  taking 
for  granted  that  the  Lower  Provinces  should 
pay  their  share  according  to  population.  I 
have  my  doubts  about  that,  and  I  believe  that 
the  city  of  Montreal  pays  a  little  more  duty  on 
imports  than  Prince  Edward,  and  more,  per- 
haps, than  Prince  Edward  Island  and  New- 
foundland put  together,  and  that  the  popula- 
tion of  the  District  of  Montreal  pay  a  good 
deal  more  per  head  than  that  of  New  Bruns- 
wick. 

Mr.  H.  F.  MACKENZIE— Do  you  mean 
the  local  consumption  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DO  RIO  N — I  mean  to  say  that 
the  inhabitants  of  the  city  of  ]Montreal  pay  a 
great  deal  more  than  the  inhabitants  of  any 
similar  portion  of  any  of  the  provinces,  and 
that  the  district  of  Montreal  consumes  as  much 
as  any  other  section  of  the  same  extent  and 


262 


population.  But  I  have  taken  these  figures, 
as  to  the  relative  contribution  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  to  the  revenue,  as  given  by  the 
organ  of  the  President  of  the  Council.  But, 
sir,  we  have  been  told,  for  ten  years  past,  that 
Upper  Canada  wanted  representation  by  popu- 
lation for  nothing  else  but  because  Lower 
Canada  was  spending  the  money  of  the  pro- 
vince lavishly — two-thirds  of  it  coming  from 
the  pockets  of  the  people  of  Upper  Canada. 
We  have  been  told  that  it  was  not  to  interfere 
with  the  institutions,  language,  or  laws  of 
Lower  Canada,  but  merely  to  give  Upper 
Canada  proper  control  over  the  finances. 
That  was  the  only  thing  to  be  gained  by  it. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— No,  no ! 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Perhaps  the  honor- 
able gentleman  will  recollect  a  letter  written 
by  the  honorable  member  for  Montreal  West 
to  "my  dearfriendMACARROW,"  of  Kingston 
It  was  on  the  eve  of  the  general  election  in 
June  18G1,  and  intended  to  induce  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada  to  join  in  putting  out  that 
bad  Administration  that  had  been  the  bane  of 
the  country — the  Cartier-Macdonald  Ad- 
ministration. The  reasons  which  were  given 
were  as  follows: — 

First. — Because  they  collectively  violated  the 
Constitution,  and  outraged  the  moral  sense  of  the 
country  by  the  double-shuffle  and  double  swearing 
of  1858.  Second. — Because  they  violated  the 
Constitution  by  allowing  payments,  and  granting 
gratuities,  and  giving  or  procuring  lucrative  con- 
tracts for  merabei-s  of  Parliament,  or  their  sup- 
porters, as  witness  the  ]  ayments,  grants  and  con- 
tracts made  or  given  to  Mr.  Tukcotti:,  Mr.  Mc- 
Leod,  Mr.  Bekjamix,  Mr.  A.  P.  Maouoxald,  and 
Mr.  McMicKEX.  Third. — Because  they  violated 
the  Constitution  by  keeping  for  three  sessions 
Messrs.  Alleyx,  Dlbord  and  Simard  in  their 
seats  tor  Quebec  on  a  pretended  majority  of 
15,000  votes.  Fourth — Because  they  violated 
the  Constitution  by  justifying  the  sale  of  offices 
in  Sheriff  Mercer's  case,  and  in  retaining  the 
Hon.  Col.  Prince  in  the  Upper  House  as  their 
active  partisan,  after  his  office  had  been  created 
and  his  coramissiou  made  out,  as  Judge  of  the 
District  of  Algonia.  Fifth. — Because  they  vio- 
lated the  Constitution  by  keeping  Joseph  C. 
MoRRLSO.v  in  the  Cabinet,  us  Minister  of  the 
Crown,  after  he  had  betMi  three  limes  rejected  by 
the  people.  Svcth. — Because  they  violated  the 
Constitution  in  abandoning  to  the  discretion  of 
Sir  EuMU.NO  Head  personally,  the  sole  represen- 
tation of  the  people  of  Canada,  during  the  mem- 
orable visit  of  His  Royal  Highness  the  Prince  of 
Wales.  Seventh. — Hecau.se  they  have  continu- 
ously and  systematically  violated  the  Constitution 
in  expending  vast  sums  of  money,  amounting  in 
the  aggregate  to  several  millions  of  dollars,  with- 
out the  authority  of  Parliament. 


Sir,  I  advise  the  honorable  gentleman  to  con- 
tinue that  correspondence  and  add  the  $100,- 

000  which  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway  had  got, 
and  the  bill  of  exchanse  affair. 

Mr.  POWELL— The  Confederation  is 
worth  all  that.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  letter  proceeds 
to  say  : — 

This  indictment  will  be  admitted  to  contain 
grave  misdemeanors  and  breaches  of  trust,  which 
ought  to  be  punished  by  the  people,  now  that 
they  have  the  offenders  up  for  judgment.  What- 
ever differences  of  opinion  may  exist  among  the 
Opposition,  whetJier  members  or  leaders,  as  to 
the  nature  and  extent  of  the  constitutional  re- 
forms demanded  in  our  present  frame  of  Govern- 
ment, there  is  not  a  shadow  of  difference  in 
this  point,  that  some  remedy  must  be  found  at 
once  for  the  unprincipled  expenditure  of  the  pub- 
lic money  which  is  daily  demoralizing  our  pubUc 
men,  beggaring  the  coun'ry,  and  retarding  its 
natural  ratio  of  increase  •  •  •  •  •  \Yq 
want,  first  of  all,  an  honest  government,  a  really 
responsible  government — which,  except  in  the 
clearest  case  of  necessity,  such  as  an  invasion  of 
the  soii,  will  not  on  any  pretext  whatever  lavish 
the  people's  money  without  the  authority  of  the 
people's  representatives. 

Well,  sir,  this  was  the  advice  given  to  Upper 
Canada  in  1861,  by  one  of  the  leaders,  the 
present  Hon.  Minister  of  Agriculture. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— What  h'as  that  to  do 
with  the  union  of  the  provinces? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— It  has  much  to  do 
with  it.  It  shows  that  representation  by  pop- 
ulation was  put  forth  as  a  remedy  for  the 
financial  evils  of  our  present  system  of  gov- 
ernment. Under  this  advice  Upper  Canada 
gave  a  large  majority  against  the  Groverument 
of  the  day,  and  the  members  elected  turned 
round,  and  by  abandoning,  for  a  time  at  least, 
representation  by  population,  they  acknow- 
ledged that  the  financial  ijuestion  was  para- 
mount to  it.     I  have  shown,  Mr.  Speaker, 

1  think,  the  proportion  which  Upper  Canada 
would  have  to  pay  of  the  increa.sed  expendi- 
ture which  must  immediately  ensue  from  the 
adoption  of  Confederation  which  is  propo.sed  to 
free  Upper  Canada  from  a  larger  expenditure 
by  Lower  Canada  than  what  she  contributes  to 
the  revenue.  Now,  let  us  see  what  that  ex- 
penditure is.  The  whole  expenditure  of  the 
province  exclusive  of  interest  on  public  debt, 
costs  of  legislation,  militia,  subsidy  to  ocean 
steamers  and  collection  of  revenue,  which 
will  have  to  be  paid  even  with  Confederation, 
if  it  takes  phice,  does  not  amount  to  more 
tlian  J5!2,500,000,  or  one  dollar  per  head  of 
the  whole  population.     Then  supposing  that 


263 


Upper  Canada  pays  two-thirds  of  that  sum, 
or  |l, 666,666,  and  Lower  Canada  one-third, 
Upper  Canada  would  only  pay  $266,666 
more  than  her  share  according  to  population. 
And  it  is,  I  say,  to  get  rid  of  this  expenditure 
of  a  couple  of  hundred  thousand  dollars  that 
the  Upper  Canadian  members  of  the  Govern- 
ment propose  that  their  section  of  the  country 
should  pay  an  additional  yearly  expenditure 
of  $3,181,000,  yielding  no  return  wnatsoever 
— (hear,  hear) — and  to  saddle  on  Lower  Can- 
ada an  additional  expenditure  of  from  $1,- 
500,000  to  $2,000,000  a  year— the  amount 
depending  on  the  proportion  which  they  res- 
pectively contribute  to  the  revenue  of  the 
country.  And,  Mr.  Speaker,  this  is  only 
the  immediate  and  necessary  expenditure  that 
will  fall  upon  the  people  of  Canada  at  the  very 
outset.  There  is  not  a  single  sixpence  in  this 
estimate  for  any  improvements  to  be  made  in 
the  eastern  or  western  portion  of  the  Confed- 
eracy. (Hear,  hear.)  But,  sir,  respecting 
the  defences  of  the  country,  I  should  have  said 
at  an  earlier  stage  of  my  remarks  that  this 
scheme  proposes  a  union  not  only  with  Nova 
Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  Prince  Edward 
Island,  and  Newfoundland,  but  also  with 
British  Columbia  and  Vancouver's  Island. 
Although  I  have  not  been  able  to  get  the 
information  from  the  Government — for  they 
do  not  seem  to  be  very  ready  to  give  informa- 
tion— yet  I  understand  that  there  are  des- 
patches to  hand,  stating  that  resolutions  have 
been  adopted  in  the  Legislature  of  British 
Columbia  asking  for  admission  into  the  Con- 
federation at  once.  I  must  confess,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  it  looks  like  a  burlesque  to 
speak  as  a  means  of  defence  of  a  scheme  of 
Confederation  to  unite  the  whole  country 
extending  from  Newfoundland  to  Vancouver's 
Island,  thousands  of  miles  intervening  without 
any  communication,  except  through  the  United 
States  or  around  Cape  Horn.     (Oh !) 

Hon.Atty.  Gen.  CAKTIER— There  is 
an  Interoceanic  Railway  to  be  built. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Yes,  I  suppose  that 
is  another  necessity  of  Confederation,  to  which 
we  may  soon  look  forward.  Some  western 
extension  of  this  Grand  Trunk  scheme  for 
the  benefit  of  Messrs.  Watkin  &  Co.,  of  the 
new  Hudson's  Bay  Company.  So  far  as 
Lower  Canada  is  concerned,  I  need  hardly 
stop  to  point  out  the  objections  to  the  scheme. 
It  is  evident,  from  what  has  transpired,  that 
it  is  intended  eventually  to  form  a  legislative 
union  of  all  the  provinces.  The  local  govern- 
ments,  in  addition  to   the  General  Govern- 


ment, 


will  be  found  so  burdensome,    that  a 


majority  of  the  people  will  appeal  to  the  Im- 
perial Government  for  the  formation  of  a  le- 
gislative union.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  may  well 
ask  if  there  is  any  member  from  Lower  Can- 
ada, of  French  extraction,  who  is  leady  to 
vote  for  a  legislative  union.  What  do  I  find  in 
connection  with  the  agitation  of  this  scheme  ? 
The  honorable  member  for  Sherbrooke  stated 
at  the  dinner  to  the  delegates  given  at  Toronto, 
after  endorsing  everything  that  had  been 
said  by  the  Honorable  President  of  the  Coun- 
cil:— 

We  may  hope  that,  at  no  far  distant  day,  we 
may  become  willing  to  enter  into  a  Legislative 
Union  instead  of  a  federal  uuion,  as  now  pro- 
posed. We  would  have  all  have  desired  a  legis- 
lative union,  and  to  see  the  power  concen  trated  in 
the  Central  Government  as  it  exists  in  England, 
spreading  the  seais  of  its  protection  over  all  the 
institutions  of  the  land,  but  we  found  it  was  im- 
possible to  do  that  at  first.  We  found  that  there 
were  difficulties  in  the  way  which  could  not  be 
overcome. 

Honorable  members  from  Lower  Canada 
are  made  aware  that  the  delegates  all  desired 
a  legislative  union,  but  it  could  not  be  accom- 
plished at  once.  This  Confederation  is  the 
first  necessary  step  towards  it.  '  The  British 
Government  is  ready  to  grant  a  Federal  union 
at  once,  and  when  that  is  accomplished  the 
French  element  will  be  completely  over- 
whelmed by  the  majority  of  Britisli  repre- 
sentatives What  then  would  prevent  the 
Federal  Government  from  passing  a  set  of 
resolutions  in  a  similar  way  to  those  we  are 
called  upon  to  pass,  without  submitting  them 
to  the  people,  calling  upon  the  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment to  set  aside  the  Federal  form  of  gov- 
ernment and  give  a  legislative  union  instead 
of  it  ?  ( Hear,  hear.)  Perhaps  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada  think  a  legislative  union  a 
most  desirable  thing.  I  can  tell  those  gentle- 
men that  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  are 
attached  to  their  institutions  in  a  manner  that 
defies  any  attempt  to  change  them  in  that 
waj.  They  will  not  change  their  religious 
institutions,  their  laws  and  their  language,  for 
any  consideration  whatever.  A  million  of 
inhabitants  may  seem  a  small  affair  to  the 
mind  of  a  philosopher  who  sits  down  to  write 
out  a  constitution.  He  may  think  it  would 
be  better  that  there  should  be  but  one  religion, 
one  languag(i  and  one  system  of  laws,  and  he 
goes  to  work  to  frame  institutions  that  will 
bring  all  to  that  desirable  state ;  but  I  can 
tell  honorable  gentlemen  that  the  history  of 
every  country  goes  to  show  that  not  even  by 
the  power  of  the  sword  can  such  changes  be 


264 


accomplished.    (Hear,  hear.)     We  have  the 
history  of  the  Greek  race,  having  at  one  time 
a  population  of  six  millions,  dwindling  down 
to  seven  hundred  thousand,  and  we  find  them 
even  then,  after  several  centuries  of  oppres- 
sion,  rising  up  and    asserting    their  rights. 
(Hear,   hear.;     We  have  the  same  circum- 
stance in  the  history  of  Belgium,  which  was 
united   to  Holland  with  a  view  to  secure  the 
assimilation  of  the  two  countries,  but  fifteen 
years  of  trial  had  hardly  elapsed   when  the 
whole  of  the  Belgium  people  and  Government 
rose  en  masse  to  protest  against  that  union, 
and  to  assert  their  separate  nationality.  (Hear, 
hear.)     Sir,  it  is  not  only  from  the  history  of 
the  past  we  may  derive  the  lesson,  but  we 
have  the  circumstances  of  the  present  gener- 
ation to  guide  us.    I  am  astonished  to  see  the 
honorable  member  for  Montreal  West  helping 
a  scheme  designed  to  end  in  a  legislative  union, 
the  object  of  which  can  only  be  to  assimilate 
the  whole  people  to  the  dominant  population. 
In  that  honorable  gentleman's  own  country 
the  system  has  produced  nothing  but  a  dis- 
satisfied and  rebellious  people.    Is  it  desirable 
that  in  this  country  then  we  should  pass  a 
measure  calculated  to  give  dissatisfaction  to  a 
million  of  people  ?  You  may  ascertain  what  the 
cost  of  keeping  down  a  million  of  dissatisfied 
people  is  by  the  scenes  that  have  been  and  are 
now  transpiring  on  the  other  side  of  the  line, 
where  a  fifth   of   the   people  of  the  United 
States  has  risen  and   has  caused  more  misery 
and    misfortune    to    be    heaped    upon    that 
country  than  could  have  been  wrought  in  cen- 
turies of  peaceful   compromising   legislation. 
Sir,    if    a    legislative    union  of   the    British 
American  Provinces  is  attempted,  there  will 
be  such  an  agitation  in  this   portion    of  the 
province   as  was  never  witnessed   before — you 
will  see  the  whole   people  oi    Lower  Canada 
clinging  together  to  resist  by  all  legal  and  con- 
stitutional means,  such  an  attempt  at  wresting 
from    them  those  institutions  that  they  now 
enjoy.     They    would    go   as  a  body  to    the 
Legislature,  voting  as  one  man,    and   caring 
for  nothing  else  but  for  the  protection  of  their 
beloved  institutions  and  law,  and  making  gov- 
ernment all  but  impossible.     The  ninety  Irish- 
members  in  the  Britisli  House  of    Commons, 
composed   as  it  is  of  nearly    seven    hundred 
members,  by  voting  together  have  caused  their 
influence  tn  be  felt,  as  in  the   grants   to  tiie 
Mayiiootli  College  and  some  other  questions. 
It  would  be  the  sanie  way  with  the  people  of 
Lower  Cairnhi,  and  a  more  deplorable  state  of 
things  would   be  the    inevitable    result.     The 
majority  would  be  Ibrced  by  the  minority  to 


do  things  they  would  not,  under  the  circum- 
stances, think  of  doing.      This  is  a  state  so 
undesirable  that,  although  I  am  strongly  op- 
posed  to   the  proposed   Federal  union,   I  am 
still    more  strongly  opposed   to  a    legislative 
union.    Those  who  de.sire  a  legislative  union 
may  see  from  this  what  discordant  elements 
they  would  have  to  deal  with  in   undertaking 
the  task,  and  what  misery  they  would   bring 
upon  the  country  by  such  a   step.      (Hear, 
hear.)       I    know     there   is   an  apprehension 
among  the  British  population  in  Lower  Canada 
that,  with  even  the  small  power  that  the  Local 
Governujent  will  possess,  their  rights  will  not 
be  respected.     How,  then,  can  it  be  expected 
that  the  French  population  can  anticipate  any 
more  favorable  result  from  the  General  Gov- 
ernment, when  it  is  to  possess  such  enormous 
powers  over  the  destinies  of  their  section   of 
the  country  ?     Experience  shows  that  majori- 
ties are  always  aggressive,  and  it  cannot  well 
be  otlierwise  in  this  instance.      It  therefore 
need  not  bo  wondered  at  that  the  j)eople  of 
Lower  Canada,  of  British  origin,  are  ready  to 
make  use   of   every  means  to  prevent  their 
being  placed  at  the  mercy  of  a  preponderating 
population  of  a  different  origin.    I  agree  with 
them  in  thinking  that   they    ought    to    take 
nothing  on  trust  in  this  matter  of  entering 
upon  a  new  state  of  political   e^dstence,  and 
neither  ought  we  of  French   origin  to  do  so, 
in  relation  to  the  General  Government,  how- 
ever happy  our  relations  to  each  other  may  be 
at  present. 

Hon.  xMr.  McGEE — That  is  a  glorious 
doctrine  to  instil  into  society.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Well  it  is  the  doc- 
trine generally  acted  upon,  and  correctly  so. 
When  my  honorable  friend  makes  a  contract 
with  a  friend  and  neighbor  to  be  tilled  even 
a  few  months  in  the  future,  does  he  not  have 
it  put  in  legal  form,  in  black  aud  white  ?  Of 
course  he  does.  And  when  we  are  making 
arrangements  calculated  to  la.st  for  all  time  to 
come,  is  it  not  vastly  more  important  that  the 
same  safe  and  equitable  principle  should  be 
recognized?  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable 
gentleman  rec(\gnisced  it  himself  in  the  most 
marked  manner,  by  placing  in  the  resolutions 
guarantees  respecting  the  educational  institu- 
tions of  the  two  sections  of  Canada.  The 
Komau  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada  were 
anxious  to  have  their  rights  protected  against 
the  hand  of  the  J'rotestaut  majority,  and, 
where  the  Protestants  are  iu  a  minority,  they 
are  just  as  anxious  to  luive  their  rights  per- 
manently protected.  But,  sir,  the  whole 
scheme,  since  it  must  be  taken  or  rejected  ut< 


265 


a  whole,  is  one  which  I  do  not  think  any 
honorable  member  of  this  House  can  really 
endorse  in  an  unreserved  manner,  if  he  were 
to  speak  his  sentiments  freely.  I  see  nothing 
in  it  but  another  railway  scheme  for  the  benefit 
of  a  few — and  I  cannot  better  describe  the 
whole  project  than  by  a  quotation  from  the 
remarks  of  a  gentleman,  who  expressed  himself 
on  the  subject  of  Confederation  and  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway  a  very  short  time  before 
he  became  a  member  of  the  present  Adminis- 
tration, and  a  warm  advocate  of  both  these 
bubbles.  After  speaking  of  the  visit  of  Mr. 
Watkin  to  this  country,  he  closes  with  the 
following :  — 

If  our  Government  were  to  rush  into  the  rail- 
way project,  expend  a  large  sum  of  money  upon 
the  road,  and  form  a  compact  immediately  with 
Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island,  both  the  alliance  and  the  road 
would  be  carried  out  mainly  for  the  benefit  of  the 
dominant  power  in  this  province  at  this  moment ; 
we  need  hardly  say  we  mean  Lower  Caniida. 
The  important  question  to  Upper  Canada — her 
connection  with  the  North- West  Territory — would 
be  altogether  ignored,  Quebec  would  be  made 
the  capital  of  the  Federation,  representation  by 
population  would  form  no  part  of  the  compact, 
and,  instead  of  having  one  leech  draininof  her  of 
her  resources,  Upper  Canada  would  have  three. 
Before  entering  into  new  alliances,  it  should  be 
the  effort  of  Upper  Canadians  to  regulate  the 
affairs  of  their  own  province,  to  obtain  represen- 
tation by  population,  and  to  open  the  North-West 
Territory,  so  that  when  the  Federation  of  all  the 
British  American  provinces  does  come,  it  may  be 
found  with  Upper  Canada  as  the  central  figure  of 
the  group  of  states,  with  western  adjuncts  as  well 
as  eastern.  Not  even  the  most  ardent  supporter 
of  the  union  of  all  the  provinces  can  allege  that 
there  is  any  absolute  necessity  for  haste  in  carry- 
ing out  the  project.  Nobody  is  being  hurt  by 
the  provinces  remaining  in  their  present  condition  ; 
no  one  single  material  interest,  either  in  Canada 
or  the  Lower  Provinces,  would  be  enhanced  in 
value  by  the  union. 

This  appeared  in  the  Glohe  in  1863. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— What  Adminis- 
tration did  that  refer  to  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— It  did  not  refer  to 
mine. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Well, 
whose  was  it  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  think  the  Min- 
ister of  Agriculture  might  inform  my  honora- 
ble friend. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— The  Honor- 
able Attorney  General  has  them  nearly  all 
around  him.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— On  the  15th  of  Oc- 

35 


tober,  Hon.  Mr.  Brown's  paper  further  stat- 
ed :— 

The  line,  in  fact,  will  leave  us  just  where  we 
are  now.  In  the  summer,  when  navigation  is 
opened,  we  can  send  produce  down  the  river  and 
gulf,  and,  to  some  extent,  compete  with  the 
Americans.  But  iu  the  winter,  to  sujipose  we 
can  send  flour  and  wheat  over  this  long  lund  route 
cheaper  than  the  Americans  can  send  it  from  the 
eastern  ports,  is  an  absurdity  which  no  man  ac- 
quainted with  the  trade  will  commit. 

Again,  on  the  17th  of  October,  in  the   same 
year,  it  said  : — 

The  road  is  to  run  mainly  through  a  country 
which  does  not  belong  to  Canada,  but  which  can- 
not, under  any  possible  circumstances,  bring  any 
profit  or  return,  directly  or  indirectly. 

On  the  20th  it  said  :— 

It  will  not  be  wise  for  the  opponents  of  the 
measure  to  rely  upon  present  appearances.     The 
ministerial  project  must  b    resisted  at  every  stage, 
in  the  press  and  in  Parliament. 
Asiaio,  on  the  25th  of  the  same  month  : — 

With  fair  professions  of  retrenchment  and 
economy  on  their  lips,  Ministers  took  office  ;  but 
three  short  months  after.vards  we  find  them 
launching  a  new  railroad  scheme  upon  the  mar- 
ket, admittedly  more  onerous  at  the  moment  of 
initiation  than  was  the  Grand  Trunk  at  the  same 
stage. 

Sir,  I  agree  with  the  statement,  that  to  go 
into  the  construction  of  this  road  without 
knowing  whit  it  is  to  cost,  or  over  what  par- 
ticular route  it  is  to  be  built,  is  a  thing  not 
to  be  thought  of  by  any  prudent  member  of 
this  House,  and  that  such  a  proposal  ought  to 
be  resisted  at  every  stage.  I  think,  too,  that 
the  whole  scheme,  apart  from  the  construction 
of  the  railway,  is  worse  than  the  railway 
scheme  itself,  and  ought  to  be  still  more 
strongly  opposed.  It  is  a  mere  revival  of  a 
scheme  that  has  been  rejected  by  the  people 
on  every  occasion  on  which  it  has  been 
presented  to  them  during  the  past  seven  years. 
Independent  of  various  other  considerations 
the  mere  question  of  its  expense  ought  to 
cause  it  to  be  rejected  by  the  representatives 
of  the  people.  When  the  duties  on  imports 
were  raised  to  twenty  and  twenty-live  per 
cent.,  what  was  the  cry  we  heard  from  the 
lower  portion  of  the  province  ?  It  was  that 
the  people  were  quite  unable  to  pay  such  a 
serious  tax,  and  the  result  was  the  establish- 
ment of  a  free  port  at  Gasp6.  We  have  not, 
for  several  years,  collected  a  single  cent  of 
income  from  that  large  section  of  country,  but 
have,  from  year  to  year,  paid  out  large  sums 
of  money  for  the  opening  up  of  roads,  for  the 
administration  of  justice,  and  for  keeping  up 


266 


a  steam  summer  communication  ■with  the  ex- 
treme eastern  section  of  the  province.  More 
money  has  been  squandered  in  that  section  of 
the  country  than  on  any  other,  yet  it  has 
produced  no  revenue.  And  that  was  the 
character  of  the  country  through  which  the 
Intercolonial  road  was  to  run,  both  in  Canada 
and  in  New  Brunswick.  For  we  are  asked  to 
add,  at  one  stroke,  to  our  debt  of  sixty-two 
and  a  half  millions  of  dollars,  an  annual  charge 
representing  in  capital  the  moderate  sura  of 
one  hundred  and  twenty-four  millions — for 
that  is  the  financial  nature  of  the  proposition, 
and  this  for  the  purpose  of  adding  900,000 
inhabitants  to  our  population,  most  of  whom 
are  not  in  a  better  position,  if  they  are  in  as 
good,  as  the  people  of  the  district  of  Gasp6. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Sir,  in  1841,  nearly  twenty- 
five  years  ago.  Lower  Canada  entered  into  tie 
union  of  the  provinces  with  a  debt  of  £130,- 
000.  That  was  a  debt  created  by  the  Special 
Council,  for  the  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada 
under  the  old  Constitution  owed  not  a  penny 
when  it  ceased  to  exist.  That  debt  was 
created  between  1837  and  1840.  Since  the 
union  there  hava  been  expended  in  Lower 
Canada,  for  the  Beauharnois  canal,  the  en- 
largement of  the  Lachine  canal,  the  works 
on  Lake  St.  Peter,  and  the  Chambly  canal, 
about  four  millions  of  dollars.  Besides,  we 
have  three  hundred  and  fifty  miles  of  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway — about  a  hundred  less 
<han  Upper  Canada.  Taking  one-half  the 
cost  to  the  province  of  that  railway  —  two 
million  pounds  currency,  or  eight  millions  of 
dollars — we  have  four  millions  for  canals  and 
eight  millions  for  railways.  Twelve  millions 
of  dollars  have,  therefore,  been  expended  for 
public  works  in  Lower  Canada,  with  perhaps 
another  million  for  other  small  works — in  all, 
thirteen  millions  of  dollars. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— What  about  the 
Montreal  harbor? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  Montreal  har- 
bor will  pay  for  itself.  The  Government  will 
not  be  called  upon  to  pay  a  single  sixpence  of 
its  indebtedness.  The  province  only  guaran- 
tees a  small  portion  of  its  debentures,  and  will 
never  have  to  pay  a  copper  of  it,  any  more 
than  it  will  of  the  municipal  indebtedness  of 
the  city  of  Montreal,  the  interest  of  which  is 
regularly  paid  every  year.  Twelve  or  thirteen 
millions  of  dollars'  worth  of  public  works  is 
all  we  are  able  to  show  for  an  increase  of  our 
debt  from  £133,000  at  the  time  of  the  union, 
to  $27,500,000,  which,  on  going  out  of  the 
union  to  enter  into  the  Confederation,  is  the 
Lower  Canada  proportion  of   the  $G2,500,- 


000  of  public  debt  we  are   bringing  into  it. 

1  do  not  take  into  consideration  the  Municipal 
Loan  Fund  indebtedness,  nor  the  Seigniorial 
Tenure  redemption,  because  if  we  have  re- 
ceived any  benefit  from  the  outlay,  we  are 
going  to  be  charged  for  those  items  separately 
over  and  above  our  share  in  the  $62,500,000. 
If  I  am  not  right  in  thus  stating  the  case,  I 
hope  honorable  gentlemen  on  the  other  side 
of  the  House  will  correct  me.  From  the  ex- 
planations given  the  other  day  by  the  Honor- 
able Finance  Minister,  I  infer  that  by  putting 
the  Seigniorial  Tenure  to  the  charge  of  Lower 
Canada,  and  by  L'pper  Canada  abandoning 
its  indemnity  I'or  tho  Seigniorial  Tenure  ex- 
penditure, there  is  no  necessity  for  taking 
those  items  into  account  as  part  of  the 
liability  of  Canada  in  the  Confederation  ; 
that  the  charge  for  the  redemption  of  the 
Seigniorial  Tenure,  the  township  indemnity 
under  the  Seigniorial  Act  of  1859,  the  interest 
on  that  indemnity,  the  liability  of  the  pro- 
vince to  the  Superior  Education  Fund,  and 
the  loss  on  the  Lower  Canada  Municipal  Loan 
Fund,  amounting  in  all  to  about  $4,500,000, 
will  have  to  be  paid  by  Lower  Canada  alone,  the 
interest  on  which,  at  five  per  cent,  will  be 
$225,000,  which  sum  will  be  retained  out  of 
the  $880,000  to  be  paid  by  the  General  Gov- 
ernment to  Lower  Canada  for  local  purposes, 
leaving  something  less  than  GO  cents  per  head 
for  carrying  on  the  Local  Government.  Upper 
Canada  came  into  the  union  with  a  debt  of 
£1,300,000.  Immediately  after  the  union 
£1,500,000  sterling  was  borrowed  for  public 
works,  most  of  which  amount  was  expended  in 
Upper  Canada.  And  yet  Upper  Canada  goes 
out  of  the  union  by  simply  abandoning  its 
claim  for  indemnity  under  the  Seigniorial 
Tenure  Act,  having  nothing  to  assume  but  its 
Municipal  Loan  Fund  and  its  sh:;re  in  the 
Federal  debt ;  while  Lower  Canada,  on  the 
contrary,  goes  out  with  a  load  of  $4,500,000 
of  local  debt,  besides  the  $27,500,000 
which  falls  to  its  share  to  be  paid  through 
the  General  Government.  And  this,  too, 
after  paying  for  twenty-five  years  a  highly 
increased  taxation,  for  all  which  it  has 
nothing  to  show  except  public  improvements 
to  the  amount  of  about  $13,000,000.  Sir, 
if  such  a  scheme  as  this,  on  being  submit- 
ted to  the  people,  would  be  approved  by  them, 
I  am  very  much  mistaken.  1  submit  that  no 
such  project  ought  to  be  voted  by  the  House, 
before  we  have  the  fullest  inibrmation  nece.s- 
sary  to  enable  us  to  come  to  right  conclusions. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  for  the  security  of  tho 
majority,  as  well  as  of  the  minority,  I  make 


267 


this  demand.     Honorable  gentlemen  who  cry 
"  hear!  hear  !"  may  find  themselves  very  much 
disappointed,  if,  after  this  portion  of  the  scheme 
is   passed,    the   local    constitutions   proposed 
were  quite  unsatisfactory.     I   contend    that 
the  local  constitutions  are  as  much  an  essential 
part  of  the  whole  as  the  general  Constitution, 
and  that  they  both  should  have  been  laid  at 
the   same   time  before   the  House.      (Hear, 
hear.)      We  ought,  besides,  to  have  a  clear 
statement  of  what  are  the  liabilities  specially 
assigned  to  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  (Hear, 
hoar.)     It  is  well  that  Upper  Canada  should 
know  if  she  has  to    pay    the    indebtedness 
of   Port    Hope,    Cobourg,    Brockville,    Nia- 
gara,   and    other  municipalities    which  have 
borrowed    from    the    municipal    loan    fund, 
and    what    these  liabilities    are;    and  it  is 
important    for    Lower    Canada    to    be    told 
what  are  the  amounts  they  will  be  required 
to  tax  themselves  for.     We  ought,  besides,  to 
obtain  some  kind  of   information  upon   the 
subject  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  what  is 
the  proposed  cost,  and  what  route  is  to  be 
followed  ;  and  before  these  facts  are  before  the 
House,  we  ought  not  to  take  it  upon  ourselves 
to  legislate  on  the  subject.     Still  further,  the 
people  of  the  country  do  not  understand  the 
scheme.    (Hear,   hear.)     Many  members  of 
this  House,  before  hearing  the  explanations 
which  have  been  offered,  were,  and  others  are 
still,  in  doubt  as  to  the  bearing  of  many  of 
these  resolutions.  In  the  Upper  House  doubts 
were  expressed  as  to  who  should  recommend 
the  appointment  of  the  members  composing 
the  Legislative  Council.     It  was  thought  in 
many  quarters  that  the  appointment  of  these 
members  was  to  be  made  by  the  local  govern- 
ments  after  the    scheme    shouLl    come  into 
operation.      But  this  it  seems  is  a  mistake. 
There  are  many  other  matters  with  which  we 
are  unacquainted,  particularly  as  regards  the 
assets  and  liabilities.     There  is  a  provision 
that    the  nomination   of   the  judges  of    the 
superior  courts  shall  be  vested  in  the  General 
Government,  but  it  would  seem  that  the  con- 
stitution of  the  courts  is  to  be  left  to  the 
local  governments ;  and  I  put  the  question, 
What  does  this  mean  ?     Do  you  mean  that 
the  local  governments  are  to  establish  as  many 
courts  as  they   please,  declare  of  how  many 
judgea  they  will  be  composed,  and  that  the 
General    Government   will  have  to  pay  for 
them  ?     Is  a  local  government  to  say,  here  is  a 
court  with  three  judges;  we  want  five,  and  those 
five  must  be  appointed  and  paid  by  the  Gen- 
eral Government  ?    I  have  received  no  answer 
to  this  and  to  several   other  questions.     I  can 


well  understand  what  is  meant  by  the  regula- 
tion of  the  law  of  divorce  ;  but  what  is  meant 
by  the  regulation  of  the  marriage  question  ? 
Is  the  General  Government  to  be  at  liberty 
to  set  aside  all  that  we  have  been  in  the  habit 
of  doing  in  Lower  Canada  in  this  respect  ? 
Will  the  General  Government  have  the  power 
to  determine   the  degree  of  relationship  and 
the  age  beyond   which   parties  may  marry, 
as  well  as  the  consent  which  will  be  required 
I  to  make  a  marriage   valid  ?     (Hear,  hear.) 
Will  all  these  questions  be  left  to  the  General 
Government?     If  so,  it  will   have  the  power 
to  upset  one  of  the  most  important  portions 
of  our    civil   code,    and   one    affecting   more 
than  any   other  all  classes  of  society.     The 
adoption,    for  instance,  of  the  English   rule, 
whereby   females  at  the  age  of  twelve,   and 
males  at  the  age  of  fourteen,   can  contract  a 
valid  marriage  without  the  consent  of  parents, 
tutors  or  guardians,  would  be  looked  to  by  the 
mass  of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  as  a  most 
objectionable  innovation  in  our  laws,  as  would 
also  any  provision  to  allow  such  marriages  to 
take   place   before   any    common    magistrate 
without  any   formality   whatsoever.     (Hear, 
hear.)     Yet   is   there   no  danger    that   such 
measures  might  be  carried,  when  you  see  the 
different  feelings  existing  on  these  questions 
among  the  people  of  the  different  provinces  i 
There  is  another  question  to  which  I  must 
refer   before  closing.      It   is   said   that   the 
division  of  the  debt  is  a  fair  one.     We  have 
given,   say  the  Government,   $25  of  debt  to 
each  inhabitant — that  is,   in  those  provinces 
where  it  was  less,  they  have  increased  it  to 
that   amount,  charging  it  to  the  Confedera- 
tion, and  thereby  they  have  made  a  present  to 
the  several  provinces  of  the  difference  between 
their  present  indebtedness  and  the  $25  per 
head.       (Laughter.)      This   $25   per   head, 
when  compared  to  the  debt  of  England,  is  a 
heavier  burthen  upon  our  own  people  than  the 
Imperial   debt  upon  the  people  of  England, 
taking  into   consideration  the  greater  wealth 
per  individual  in  England  and  the  fact  that 
the  greater  part  of  that  debt  bears  three  per 
cent,  interest.     (Hear,  hear.)     There  is  an- 
other aspect  iu  which  this  question  of  debt  is 
to  be  considered.     To  equalize  it,  the  Con- 
ference have  increased  it  on  the  basis  of  the 
present  population  for  the  several  provinces. 
This  is  fair  enough  at  present,  supposing  that 
each  province  contribate  the  same  proportion 
to  the  general  revenue,  and  would  continue  to 
be  so  if  their   population  progressed  in  the 
same     ratio     of    increase ;    but,     from    the 


natural 


advantages 


of  Upper    and    Lower 


268 


Canada,  and  their  greater  area  of  arable  lands, 
there  is  no  doubt  they  will  increase  in  popu- 
lation and  wealth  in  a  much  greater  ratio  than 
the  Lower  Provinces,  and  in  ten  years  hence, 
this  proportion,  which  this  day  appears  a  fair 
one,  will  have  much  increased  for  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada,  while  it  will  have  diminished 
for  the  Lower  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)     I 
owe   an   apology  to   the  House  for  having  of- 
fered such  lengthened  remarka  on  this  ques- 
tion, and  I  have  to  thank  honorable  members 
for  having  so  kindly  listened  to  them.  (Cries 
of  "go  on.")     I  will  simply  content  myself 
with  saying  that  for  these  reasons  which  I 
have  so  imperfectly  exposed,  I  strongly  fear 
it  would  be  a  dark  day  for  Canada  when  she 
adopted  such  a  scheme  as  this.   (Cheers.)     It 
would  be  one  marked  in  the  history  of  this 
country  as  having  had  a  most  depressing  and 
crushing  influence  on  the  energies  of  the  peo- 
ple in  both  Upper  and  Lower  Canada — (hear 
hear)  —  for  I  consider  it  one  of  the  worst 
schemes  that  could  be  brought  under  the  con- 
sideration of  the  House  ;   and  if  it  should  be 
adopted  without  the  sanction  of  the  people, 
the  country  would  never  cease  to  regret  it. 
(Hear,  hear. )     What  is  the  necessity  for  all 
this  haste  ?     The  longer  this  Constitution  is 
expected  to  last,  the  greater  the  necessity  for 
the  fullest  consideration  and  deliberation.     I 
find,  sir,  that  when,  in  1839,  Lord  John  Rus- 
sell brought  into  the  House  of  Commons  his 
first  jneasure  for  the  union  of  the  provinces, 
he  announced  his  intention  to  lay  his  measure 
before  the  House,  have  it  read  a  second  time, 
and  postpone  it  till  next  session,  to  give   a 
year  to  the  people  of  Canada  to  consider  it 
and  make  sucli  representations  as  they  would 
think  proper.  (Hear,  hear.)    And  it  was  only 
in   the  subsequent  session,  and  after  under- 
going considerable  modifications  in  the  mean 
time,  that  the  measure  was  passed.     Nothing 
could   be   more  reasonable  than   such  delay. 
But  here  it  seems  the  people  are  to  be  treat- 
ed with  less  respect  than  they  were  when  their 
Constitution  was  suspended,  and  this  meas- 
ure  is    to   be   pushed   with   indecent   haste. 
There  are  three  modes  of  obtaitiinir  the  views 
of  the  people  upon  the  (jucstiou   now  under 
discussion.     The  most  direct    one  would  be, 
after  debating  it  in  tliis  House,  to  submit  it 
to  the  p:joplo  lor   their  verdict,  yc;i  or  nay. 
The  second   is  to  dissolve   the    House   and 
appeal  to  the  pcoi)lc.     The  third  is  to  discuss 
and    pass  the  resolutions   or   address    to    a 
second  reading, and  alterwards  leave  it  open 
to  the  public  to  judge  of  its  merits,  by  meet- 
ing and  discussing  it,  and  sending  in  petition^ 


and  instructing  their  representatives  how  to 
vote  upon  it  when  they  came  to  Parliament 
at  the  next  session.  Any  one  of  these 
methods  would  elicit  the  views  of  the  people. 
]Jut  to  say  that  the  opinions  of  the  people 
have  been  ascertained  on  the  question,  I  say 
it  is  no  such  thing.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
have  heard  one  side  of  the  question  discussed, 
but  we  have  heard  none  of  the  views  on  the 
other  side  ;  and  yet  the  feeling,  as  exhibited 
in  some  parts  of  the  country,  has  been  un- 
mistakcably  in  favor  ol  an  appeal  to  the 
people.  Some  fifteen  counties  in  Lower 
Canada  have  held  meetings  and  declared  for 
an  appeal  before  the  scheme  is  allowed  to 
pass  ;  and  when  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
other  side  have  held  second  meetings,  they 
have  been  condemned  more  conclusively  than 
at  first.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  the  county  of 
llouville,  the  hon,  member  representing  that 
county,  not  satii^fied  with  the  first  expression 
of  opinion,  held  a  second  meeting,  but  the 
decision  was  still  more  emphatic  than  at  the 
first.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then  meetings  have 
been  held,  all  tending  to  the  same  conclusion^ 
in  St.  Maurice,  Maskinonge,  Berthicr,  Joli- 
ette,  Richelieu,  Chumbly,  YcrDh^res,  ]Jagot, 
St.  Hyaciuthe,  Iberville,  St.  John's,  Napicr- 
viile,  Drummoud  and  Arthabaska,  Two 
Mountains,  Vaudreuil,  and  also  in  the  city  of 
Montreal. 

Mr.  BELLEROSE—What  about  Laval  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — Yes,  a  meeting  was 
called,  and  called  without  the  requisite 
notice ;  the  notice  having  been  given  at  the 
church  doors  on  a  Friday  for  a  meeting  on 
the  next  day;  but  notwithstanding,  when 
the  meeting  was  held,  the  hon.  gentleman  did 
not  dare  press  a  resolution  in  favor  of  Con- 
federation, but  simply  one  of  confidence  in 
himself.  (Hear,  hear.)  His  friends  col- 
lected together,  and  ail  thoy  did  was  to 
express  confidence  in  him.  There  was  no 
rosolutiou  in  favor  of  Confederation,  nor  of 
passing  such  a  measure  without  submitting 
it  to  the  people.  (Hear,hear.)  I  have  now 
to  thank  the  House  for  the  patience  with 
which  they  have  listened  to  my  remarks. 
In  the  terms  uf  the  paragraph  I  have  quoted 
froiu  the  Globe,  I  shall  Icel  it  my  duty  to 
resist  the  passage  of  the  measure  at  every 
stage,  with  a  view  that  the  scheme  fehould 
go  to  the  people  in  some  shape  or  other. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  is  no  hurry  in  regard 
to  the  scheme.  We  are  now  legislating  for 
the  future  as  well  as  for  the  present,  and 
I'eeling  that  we  ought  to  make  a  Constitution 
aa  perfect  as  possibloj  and  as  far  as  possiblo 


269 


ia  harmony  with  the  views  of  the  people,  I 
maiotaiu  that  we  ought  not  to  pass  this 
measure  now,  but  leave  it  to  another  year,  in 
order  to  ascertain  in  the  meantime  what  the 
views  and  sentiments  of  the  people  actually 
are.  (The  honorable  gentleman  was  loudly 
cheered  on  resuming  his  seat.) 

After  some  discussion  as  to  the  mode  of 
continuing  the  debate,  the  House  adjourned 
at  ten  minutes  past  twelve. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL 


Friday,  February  17,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  said— Hon.  gentle- 
men, with  the  consent  of  my  hon.  friend 
opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Dickson)  who  is  en- 
titled to  the  floor,  in  consequence  of  having 
moved  the  adjournmert  of  the  debate,  I 
rise  for  the  purpose  of  proposing  the  resolu- 
tion which  J  or  some  lejgth  of  time  has  been 
before  the  House,  on  the  notiee-paper.  It  is 
one  which,  I  think,  should  commend  itself 
to  the  good  sense  and  impartial  judgment 
of  the  members  of  this  Honorable  House  ; 
and  I  shall  be  surprised  if  it  shall  meet  any 
degree  of  opposition  from  the  hon.  gentle- 
men representing  the  Grovernment  in  this 
branch  of  the  Legislature.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  resolution  is  as  follosvs  : — 

That  upon  a  matter  of  such  o;reat  importance 
as  the  purposed  Confederation  of  this  and  certani 
other  British  colonies,  this  House  is  unwilling  to 
assume  the  responsibility  of  assenting  to  a  mea- 
^  sure  involving  so  many  important  considerations, 
without  further  manifestation  of  the  public  will 
than  has  yet  been  declared. 

It  is  not  aimed  at  either  the  destruction 
or  the  defeat  of  the  resolutions  before  the 
House.  It  simply  asks  tor  delay  until  such 
time  as  the  people  of  the  country  can  more 
fully  express  their  views  on  the  matter  than 
they  have  hitherto  had  an  opportunity  of 
doing.  Hon.  gentlemen,  I  stated,  when  I 
first  addressed  this  Chamber  in  reference  to 
the  proposed  address,  that  I  was  not  opposed 
to  the  (Junfederation  of  the  British  Pro- 
vinces in  itself,  but  that  I  was  opposed  to 
many  of  the  details  embraced  in  the  reso- 
lutions upon  which  this  House  is  asked  to 
found  an  Address  to  Her  Majesty  the 
Queen.  The  hon.  gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  lloss) 
who  followed  me  upon  that  occasion,  stated 
among  oth  er  things,  that  I  had  attempted 
to  decry  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  that  I 
had  attempted  also  to  decry  the  credit    of 


Canada.  I  appeal  to  hon.  members  present, 
who  were  good  enough  to  listen  to  me  on  that 
occasion,  to  point  out  a  single  word  which  I 
said,  reflecting  upon  the  credit  of  the  people 
of  the  eastern  ■  provinces.  Instead  of  having 
said  anything  to  their  discredit,  I  thought 
I  had  paid  them  a  very  high  compliment. 
So  far  from  reflecting  upon  the  character  of 
the  public  men  of  those  provinces,  I  alluded 
to  but  one  of  them  by  name,  the  Hon.  Mr. 
TiLLEY,  and  I  paid  him  the  compliment, 
which  he  fully  merits,  of  stating  that  he 
must  be  ranked  among  the  leading  and  most 
prominent  of  British  American  statesmen. 
(Hear,  hear.)  As  to  my  decrying  the  credit 
of  Canada — if,  to  tell  the  truth — if,  to  speak 
the  honest  convictions  of  one's  mind — if,  to 
state  to  the  world  what  the  Public  Accounts 
of  our  country  tell  us — if  this  be  to  decry 
the  credit  of  our  country — then  I  am  guilty 
of  the  charge.  But  the  hon.  gentleman  went 
on  and  told  us,  that  my  speech  was  so  illo- 
gical that  it  was  unworthy  of  notice. 

Hon.  Mr.  BOSS— I  did  not  sny  that. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  hon.  gentle- 
man said  what  amounted  to  that.  And  yet 
to  my  astonishment  he  found  it  necessary  to 
reply  to  me  in  a  speech  four  columns  in 
length — a  speech,  however,  in  which  he 
failed  to  controvert  a  single  position  which 
I  had  the  honor  to  take  on  that  occasion. 
Then  I  was  charged  with  having  attacked 
statements  of  fact  made  by  our  public  men. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Hear  !  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  hon.  gentle- 
man from  Toronto  says  "  Hear,  hear."  But 
I  ask,  is  it  not  the  duty  of  hon.  gen- 
tlemen, standing  on  the  floor  of  this 
House,  to  correct  misstatements  which  have 
been  sent  to  the  country?  Was  I  doing 
anything  more  than  my  duty,  when,  in 
my  humble  way,  I  endeavored  to  correct 
what,  if  not  misstatements,  were  at  least 
evidently  incorrect  statements  ?  We  have 
had  too  much  of  that  kind  of  thing  in  this 
country.  And  since  my  hon.  friend  from 
Toronto  (Hon.'  Mr.  Ross)  has  chosen  to 
remind  uie  of  it,  I  must  say  that  I  think  it 
is  much  to  be  regretted  that  certain  state- 
ments have  been  made  in  this  country,  and 
sent  from  this  country,  which,  instead  of 
helping  to  build  up  our  credit,  have  done 
much  to  injure  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Perhaps 
I  could  not  allude  to  anything  more  forcibly 
in  point,  than  the  flaming  prospectus  sent  to 
the  world  under  the  auspices  of  my  hon. 
friend  from  Toronto,  in  which  he  promised 
the    confiding    capitalists     of    England    a 


270 


dividecd  of  11^  per  cent,  on  the  stock  they 
misyht  subscribe  to  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— Was  it  not  11}  ? 
(Laughter. ) 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— No;  he  was  not  so 
modest  as  to  put  it  at  11}.  (Laughter.)  It 
was  11 J  per  cent.  I  was  charged  with 
attacking  the  statements  of  the  Hon.  Mr. 
TiLLEY.  I  stated,  when  last  addressin"  the 
House,  that  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  informed  a 
public  meeting — I  think  in  St.  John,  New 
Brunswick — that  the  tariff  of  Canada  was  in 
fact  an  11  per  cent,  tariff,  and  my  lion,  friend 
from  Toronto  said  that  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  was 
correct  in  making  that  statement. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— What  I  said  was  that  the 
average  duty  on  the  wholeimportsof  the  coun- 
try, including  the  free  goods,  was  llper  cent. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIW— Then  I  must  say 
that  that  is  a  very  novel  way  of  arriving  at 
the  tariff  of  a  country —to  take  all  the  duti- 
able goods,  to  add  to  them  all  the  free  goods, 
and  then  to  average  the  duty  on  the  whole. 
It  may  be  a  very  convenient,  but  it  is  not  a 
correct  or  honest  mode  in  my  opinion. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — It  is  precisely  what 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  did;  and  I  did  it  in  the 
same  way. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My 
told  us  that  our  present  able 
Finance  Minister  had  stated 
our  country  to  be  an  11  per  cent  tariff.  I 
asked  my  hon.  friend  when  the  Finance 
Minister  stated  that  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— I  said  that,  taking 
the  statements  Hon.  Mr.  Galt  had  far 
nished  with  reference  to  the  tariff  of  customs 
duties,  and  the  amount  of  imports  of  dutiable 
and  free  goods,  and  finding  the  average  of 
the  whole  to  be  II  percent.,  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley 
had  made  a  statement  based  on  Hon.  Mr. 
Galt's  own  figure-?. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  find  the  report 
makes  my  hon.  friend  say,  that  "  The  lion. 
Mr.  Tilley  had  quoted  the  figures  of  our 
own  Minister  of  Finance."  He  was  wi'on"; 
in  that  statement,  because  Hon.  Mr,  Tilley, 
ou  the  occasion  I  referred  to,  had  quoted  the 
figures  furnished  by  the  Comptroller  of  New 
Brunswick. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— The  Comptroller  of 
New  JJruuswick  could  not  furnish  the  figures 
of  the  trade  of  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIt}— Surely  my  hon. 
friend  will  remember,  that,  to  give  official  fo'co 
to  the  btatemcut  of  Hon.  Mr.  Tir.LKY,  he  said 
that,  after  the  Comptroller  of  the  province 
had  reviewed  our  tariff,  ho  came  to  the  coa- 


hou.  friend 
and  talented 
the  tariff  of 


elusion  that  it  was  but  an  11  per  cent,  tariff. 
I  quote  from  the  report : — 

Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  quoted  the  figures  of  our 
own  Minister  of  Finance,  and  the  hon.  merabei 
represented  him  as  not  speaking  the  truth,  but 
as,  in  effect,  attempting  to  deceive  those  whom 
he  addressed.  Hon.  Mr.  CrRuiE— I  beg  to  know 
when  the  Finance  Miii.'ster  of  Canada  stated  thu 
the  average  duties  collected  in  Canada  were  11 
per  cent. 

He  (Honorable  Mr.  iluss)  desired  to  be 
no  longer  interrupted;  I  ceased  to  interrupt 
him,  and  he  did  not  give  me  an  answer 
to  the  question.  But,  if  the  honorable 
member  from  Toronto  will  turn  to  the  cele- 
brated speech  of  the  Minister  of  Finance 
made  only  the  other  day  at  Sherbrooke,  he 
will  find  that  Hon.  Mr.  Galt  puts  the  Canada 
tariff  at  20  per  cent. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS  —  But  he  did  not  in- 
clude the  free  aoods  ;  that  is  all. 

Hun.  Mr.  CURRIE  —  No,  he  did  not 
include  the  free  goods.  But  I  say  that  if 
he  had  taken  the  value  of  dutiable  goods,  as 
we  find  it  given  in  the  Trade  Returns  of 
1S63  —  the  last  comptote  returns  fir  a  year 
that  we  have — instead  of  arriving  at  the  con- 
clusion that  we  had  a  tariff  of  only  20  per 
cent.,  he  would  have  found  that  the  actual 
duty  on  the  dutiable  goods  imported  in  1863 
was  22i  per  cent.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then  my 
hon.  friend  from  Toronto  came  to  the  assie- 
tauce  of  Mr.  Lynch  of  Halifax.  And,  not 
stopping  there,  he  undertook  the  defence  of 
the  present  President  of  the  Council  (Hon. 
Mr.  BaowN)  and  the  Provincial  Secretary 
(Hon.  Mr.  McDouqaLL  )  I  confess  I  was  a 
little  amused,  and  somewhat  surprised  to 
find  my  hon.  friend  from  Toronto  becoming 
the  apologist  and  champion  of  those  hon. 
gentlemen,  who,  I  believe,  arc  perfectly 
competent  on  all  occasions  to  take  care  of 
themselves  —  even  without  the  assistance  of 
my  hon.  friend.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  next 
alluded  to  the  propriety  and  necessity  — 
when  the  people  of  Canada  were  on  the  point 
of  forming  a  partnership  with  the  other  pro- 
vinces —  of  our  knowing  what  the  assets  of 
those  provinces  were — wh;it  stock  they  were 
brin";in";  into  the  common  concern.  I  had 
shewed  that  we  had  a  great  many  valuabla 
public  works  —  some  of  them  of  a  profitable 
character.  My  hon.  friend  told  us  that  the 
Jjower  Provinces  too  were  engagins:  in  profit- 
able works.  He  told  us  that  New  Brunswick 
had  spent  eight  millions  of  dollar.^  on  rail- 
ways, and  ^Nova  Scotia  six  millions  —  and 
that   from   those    railway.4   thq.so   provincoa 


271 


•were  getting  a  net  revenue  of  §140,000.  or 
870,000  a  year  each,  which  would  go  into 
the  revenue  of  the  General  Governcmcnt. 
Well,  hoa.  gentlemen,  when  such  statements 
are  made  on  the  floor  of  this  House,  they  of 
course  go  abroad,  and  those  who  make  them 
ought  to  be  well  satisfied  that  they  are  based 
on  reliable  facts. 

Hon.  M  {.  ROSS— So  they  were. 
Hon.  Mk.  CUEEIE  — Well,  I  was  very 
much  struck  by  the  hon.  ccotlemen's  state- 
ment.  I  was  surprised  to  find  it  stated,  in 
the  first  place,  that  those  provinces  had 
already  spent  so  much  on  railways  ;  and,  in 
the  next  place,  that  those  railways  ia  the 
eastern  provinces  were  so  much  more  pro- 
fitable and  paid  so  much  better  than  the 
railways  in  Canada.  Now,  I  find,  on  looking 
at  the  Public  Accounts  of  thoso  provinces 
— the  very  latest  available  —  that  the  New 
Brunswick  railways  cost  §4,275,000,  and 
that  the  Nova  Scotia  railways  cost  S4,G96,- 
288 — that  the  New  Brunswick  railways  in 
1862  paid  321,711  net,  and  the  Nova  Scotia 
railways,  840,739 — making  together,  instead 
of  §140,000  for  the  two  provinces,  as  stated 
by  my  hon.  friend  from  Toronto,  the  small 
sum  of  §62,450.  And  this  too,  hon.  gentle- 
men will  bear  in  mind,  was  from  new  rail- 
ways, or  railways  comparatively  new  —  and 
they  will  find,  if  they  take  the  trouble  to 
examine  the  accounts,  that  the  cost  of  the 
repairs  of  those  railroads,  as  of  every  other 
railroad  after  it  has  become  somewhat  worn, 
is  increasing  year  by  year. 

Hon.  Mr.  BOSs— The  House  will  recol- 
lect that  I  took  the  figures  which  were 
prompted  to  me  while  speaking. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURBIE  —  That  is  the 
mistake  which,  I  fear,  has  been  committed 
during  the  whole  of  this  discussion.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Our  public  men  have  been  too 
reckless  in  making  statements — statements 
in  the  east,  as  to  the  prosperity  of  Canada ; 
and  statements  iu  the  west,  as  to  the  wealth, 
property  and  resources  of  those  eastern 
provinces.  Now,  hon.  gentlemen,  let  us 
look  at  our  public  works,  which  my  hon.  friend 
in  a  measure  tried  to  belittle  and  decrj. 

Hon.  Mr.  BOSS  —  I  did  not  belittle 
them ;  I  said  that  indirectly  they  were  of 
of  great  value  to  the  country. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUBRIE— Yes ;  and  directly 
too.  I  find,  by  the  Public  Accounts  of  the 
province,  that  in  1863  the  net  revenue  of 
our  public  works — all  of  which  are  going 
to  the  Confederate  Government — yielded  to 


this  province  a  net  revenue  of  §303,187 — 
and  that  our  public  works  cost  this  pro- 
vince, taking  the  amount  set  down  in  the 
statements  of  afiairs  of  the  province,  §25,- 
931,108.  So  much  for  the  stock — so  far  as 
the  public  works  at  all  events  are  con- 
cerned— that  this  province  is  prepared  to 
put  into  the  partnership  with  the  other 
provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  shall  refer  no 
further  to  the  remarks  made  by  my  hon. 
friend  from  Toronto  in  answer  to  the  few 
words  I  addressed  to  the  House  the  other 
day,  beyond  csprc:ssing  my  regret  that  my 
hon.  friend  should  not  merely  have  been 
dissatisfied  with  the  statements  I  made,  but 
that  he  should  have  thought  fit  to  take 
exception  to  the  style  and  the  manner  in 
which  my  remarks  were  submitted  to  the 
Honorable  House. 

Hon.  31r.    BOSS — I  said,   the   temper 
and  tone. 

Hon.  Mr.   CURRIE— From  the   atten- 
tion you  were  kind  enough  to  give  me,  hon. 
gentlemen,  on  that  occasion,  and  from  the 
way  in   which   my    remarks   were   received 
both   by    my    political    opponents    and    my 
political  friends,  I  had  hoped  that  I  had  not 
exceeded    the    bounds  of  propriety — that, 
neither  in  my  temper  nor  in  my  tone  had  I 
violated  the  rules  of  this  House.     If  I  did 
so  I  regret  it,  and  I  may   be  allowed  to 
express  the  hope  that  when  my  native  laud 
has  paid  oce-fourth  as  much  for  my  poli- 
tical education  as   it  has  paid  for  that  ot  my 
hon.  friend  from  Toronto — if   my  manners 
still  fail  to  be  tLose  of  a  Chesterfield,  or 
my  eloquence  that  of  a  Pitt — 1  shall  at  all 
events  be  able  to  treat  my  fellow  members 
with  courtesy  and  propriety.     (Hear,  hear.; 
But,  leaving  these  little  matters  to  take  care 
of  themselves,  I  shall   now   alludo    to    the 
strong   pressure   which   seems,   from   some 
source  or  other,  to  be  urging  the  represen- 
tatives of  the   people    of  Canada,    and  the 
people  themselves,  to  adopt  this  important 
scheme    without    that    time    for    deliberate 
consideration  which  a  matter  of  that  kind 
is    entitled   to.     I   am    satisfied    that   that 
pressure   does    not   come   from    the    people 
themselves.     I  am  satisfied  it  does  not  come 
either  from  this  or  from  the  other  branch 
of  the  Legislature.     I    entertain    the    fear, 
which   has  been  expressed    before,  that   it 
has  been  a  pressure    from   without,  which 
has  been  urging  us  to   take  this  step   too 
rapidly,  I  fear,  for  our  country's  good.     It 
may  be  that  the  statesmen  of  Great  Britain, 


272 


and  that  a  great  portion  of  the  people  of 
Great  Britain  are  very  anxious  for  this 
measure,  and  that  the  press  of  that  country 
generally  approves  of  it.  But,  when  they 
rightly  understand  it — when  parties  holding 
our  provincial  securities  know  that  Con- 
federation means  more  debt,  more  taxation, 
and  a  worse  public  credit — we  will  have 
another  cry  coming  from  across  the  Atlantic. 
And  when  British  manufacturers  know  that 
Confederation  means  a  higher  tariff  on 
British  gocds,  we  shall  have  different  views 
from  them  also,  crossing  the  Atlantic.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Hon.  gentlemen,  when  I  left  my 
constituency,  I  had  little  idea  that  this 
measure  was  going  to  be  pressed  upon  the 
country  in  the  manner  in  which  I  see  the 
Government  of  the  day  are  attempting  to 
press  it.  I  think  we  should  pause  before 
adopting  these  resolutions.  I  think  we  want 
some  more  information  before  we  adopt 
them.  Before  we  vote  away  our  local  con- 
stitutions—  before  we  vote  away  in  fact  our 
whole  Constitution — we  should  know  some- 
thing of  what  we  are  going  to  get  in  place 
of  what  we  are  giving  away.  Did  any  hon. 
gentleman  suppose,  before  he  left  his  home, 
that  we  would  not  have  the  whole  scheme 
of  Confederation  brought  down  to  us,  and  be 
asked  to  pass  a  judgment  on  it,  or  to  con- 
sider it  at  all  events  as  a  whole  schen:e?  I 
think  wj  ought  to  be  cautions  in  taking 
half  a  measure  until  we  know  what  is  the 
whole  of  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Hon.  gentle- 
men will  remember  the  caution  with  which 
the  Purliaincnt  of  England  proceeded,  in 
1839,  Avhen  dealing  with  the  rights  of  the 
people  of  Canada.  At  that  t  nie  there  was 
an  urgent  necessity  for  a  new  Constitution 
for  the  people  of  Canada,  and  a  great  neces- 
sity ior  it,  particularly  in  the  eastern  pro- 
vince. When  the  Govornment  of  the  day 
brought  down  their  resolutions  — in  some- 
thing like  the  same  shape  as  those  now 
before  the  House — resolutions  embodying 
the  principle  of  a  Legislative  Uniou — the 
leader  of  the  opposition,  Ijord  Stanley, 
claimed  that  the  whole  measure  should  be 
I  rought  down  ;  and  the  Govornment  of  the 
day  was  actually  compelled,  by  the  force  of 
public  opinion  in  and  out  of  Parliament,  to 
withdraw  the  resolutions,  and  to  bringdown 
their  entire  measure.  (Hear,  hoar.)  And 
are  we  to  be  less  careful  of  our  own  consti- 
tutional rights  —  are  we  to  guard  more 
loosely  the  interests  of  ourselves  and  those 
who  are  to  come  after  us — than  the  people 


legislating  for  us  three  or  four  thousand  miles 
away  ?  Besides,  we  are  asked  by  those  reso- 
lutions to  pledge  our  province — to  what  ? 
To  build  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  without 
knowing,  as  I  stated  the  other  day,  where 
it  is  to  run,  or  what  it  is  to  co.st.  Why  do 
we  not  have  the  report  of  the  able  engineer 
sent  to  survey  and  report  upon  that  work? 
Why  is  it  delayed  ?  Why  is  it  attempted  to 
hurry  this  measure  through  the  Legislature, 
while  we  are  in  the  dark  with  reference  to 
that  great  undertaking  ?  It  may  be  that  it 
is  kept  back  designedly,  and  for  the  purpose 
of  furthering  this  very  measure,  not  here, 
but  in  other  parts  of  Briti-sh  America. 

Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL— 3Jy  hon.  friend 
is  going  too  far.  The  report  has  not  yet  been 
made,  and,  that  being  the  case,  it  is  some- 
what extraordinary  to  charge  the  Government 
with  keeping  it  back. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Certainly  ;  1  think 
the  case  is  bad  enough,  when  the  Govern- 
ment are  charged  merely  with  what  they 
have  done.  And  I  have  no  desire  to  make 
an  incorrect  statement  But  I  will  put  it  in 
this  way  :  I  think  we  have  good  reason  to  be 
surprised,  that  the  Government  should  coma 
down  with  their  scheme,  auu  submit  it  to 
the  House,  before  they  tven  themselve.-!  know 
what  the  work  is  to  cost — (hear,  hear) — and 
ask  this  House  and  the  country  to  pledge 
themselves  to  the  construction  of  a  work  of 
which  they  do  not  even  know  the  cost  them- 
selves. (Hear,  hear.)-  !-ut,  if  the  report  has 
not  been  prepared,  we  have  been  told  in  the 
public  prints  that  the  survey  is  either 
finished,  or  very  nearly  finished.  The  report, 
therefore,  can  soon  be  furnished  ;  and,  why 
should  there  be  so  much  hurry  and  anxiety 
to  pass  thes.'^  resolutions  before  we  got  it  ? 
Then,  again,  why  do  the  Government  not 
bring  dowu  those  School  Bibs  which  have 
been  promised  '{  Why  are  the  people,  or  why 
is  Parliament,  to  have  no  opportunity  of  pass- 
ing judgment  upon  those  measures — the 
School  Bill  for  Upper  Canad:i,  and  the  School 
Bill  for  Lower  Canada — before  this  Confeder- 
ation scheme  is  adopted  ?  I  cannot  see  the 
propriety  of  keeping  back  these  matters  ;  and 
I  do  not  think  the  members  of  the  Govern- 
ment can  show  any  reason  whatever  why 
they  should  not  be  settled  at  once.  Then, 
hon.  gentlemen,  we  should  know  something 
about  the  division  of  the  public  debt.  If 
hon.  gentlemen  will  take  up  the  Public 
Accounts  placed  in  thoir  hands  during  the 
present  session,  they  will  find  a  statement  of 


273 


the  liabilities  of  this  province,  certifying  the 
amount  to  be  no  less  than  $77,203,282.  Now 
it  is  well  known  that  Canada  is  only  allowed 
to  take  into  the  Confederation  the  debt  of 
$62,500,000.  We  have  a  right  to  ask  how 
the  other  $15,000,000  are  to  be  paid  ?  By 
whom  are  they  to  be  assumed  ?  What  portion 
is  Upper  Canada  to  assume  ?  What  portion 
is  Lower  Canada  to  assume  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
Then,  hon.  gentlemen,  if  we  adopt  these 
resolutions,  and  a  bill  based  on  them  is 
brought  into  the  Imperial  Parliament  and 
carried — look  at  the  power  vi^hich  is  given 
to  the  Confederate  Parliament.  They  have 
the  power  to  impose  local  taxation  upon  e  ch 
ol  the  separate  provinces  I  would  like  to 
know  how  that  power  is  to  be  exercised ;  I 
would  like  to  know  whether  it  is  to  be  a  capi- 
tation tax,  or  an  acreage  tax  upon  the  lands 
of  the  province,  or  whether  it  is  to  be  a 
tax  upon  the  general  property  of  the  pro- 
vince. I  am  sure  there  is  no  hon.  gentle- 
man present  who  would  not  like  information 
on  these  points,  before  voting  for  this 
scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  hon.  gentle- 
men, there  is  another  very  important  ques- 
tion—  the  question  of  the  defence  of  these 
provinces — which  within  a  few  months  has 
taken  a  shape  which  it  never  took  before  in 
the  history  of  this  country.  I  shall  trespass 
on  the  attention  of  the  House  for  a  few 
moments,  while  I  read  an  extract  from  a 
very  able  report  on  that  question,  which 
ranks,  and  in  time  to  come  too  will  rank, 
deservedly  high  as  a  State  paper,  it  is  a 
memorandum  of  the  Executive  Council, 
dated  October,  1862,  at  the  time  the 
Macdonald-Sicotte  Administration  hpld 
office.  And,  whatever  the  errors  of  that 
Government  might  have  been,  however  they 
may  have  been  found  fault  with  in  other 
matters,  I  believe  the  people  generally  were 
of  opinion  that  the  stand  which  the  Govern- 
ment took  on  that  question,  was  one  wiiich 
entitled  themtotlio  respect  and  confidence  of 
the  community  at  large.  The  Government 
say  in  this  memorandum  : — 

That  they  are  not  unwilling  to  try  to  the 
utmost  to  comply  with  the  suggestions  of  the 
Imperial  Government  is  evidenced  by  the  manner 
in  which  the  projected  Intercolonial  Railway  has 
been  entertained.  Their  conduct  in  this  matter 
should  relieve  them  from  every  imputation.  At 
the  same  time,  they  insist  that  they  are  and  must 
be  allowed  to  be  the  best  judges  of  the  pressure 
which  till'  provincial  credit  can  sustain.  They 
are  prepared,  subject  to  certain  conditions,  to 
encumber  this  credit  with  liabilities  arising  out  of 

36 


the  Intercolonial  Railway,  but  they  are  not  pre- 
pared to  enter  upon  a  lavish  expenditure  to  build 
up  a  military  system  distasteful  to  the  Canadian 
people,  disproportionate  to  Canadian  resources, 
and  not  called  for  by  any  circumstance  of  which 
they  at  present  have  cognizance. 

That  is,  the  arming  and  bringing  into  the 
field  a  force  of  50,000  men. 

His  Grace,  while  promising  liberal  assist- 
ance, contends  that  any  available  supplv  of 
regular  troops  would  be  unequal  to  the  defence 
of  the  province — and  that  the  main  dependence 
of  such  a  country  for  defence  must  be  upon  its 
own  people.  Your  Excellency's  advisers  would 
not  be  faithful  to  their  own  convictions  or  to  the 
trust  reposed  in  them,  if  they  withheld  an  expres- 
sion of  their  belief  that  without  very  large  assis- 
tance any  efforts  or  sacrifices  of  which  the  people 
of  the  province  are  capable,  would  not  enable 
them  successfully  au'^  for  any  lengthened  period 
to  repel  invasion  from  the  neighboring  republic. 
They  have  relied  for  protection  in  some  degree 
upon  the  fact,  that  under  no  conceivable  circum- 
stances will  they  provoke  war  with  the  United 
States,  and  if  therefore  Canada  should  become 
the  theatre  of  war  resulting  from  Imperial  policy, 
while  it  would  cheerfully  put  forth  its  strength  in 
the  defence  of  its  soil,  it  would  nevertheless  be 
obliged  to  rely  for  its  protection  mainly  upon 
Imperial  resources  ;  and  in  such  an  event  it  is 
their  opinion  that  they  would  be  justified  in  ex- 
pecting to  be  assisted  in  the  work  of  defence  with 
the  whole  strength  of  the  empire.  It  is  not  ne- 
cessary at  this  stage  of  their  history,  to  put  for- 
waid  assurances  of  the  readiness  of  the  Canadian 
people  to  assume  whatever  responsibilities  belong 
to  them  as  subjects  of  Her  Majesty.  Their  devo- 
tion has  been  exhibited  too  often  to  be  open  to 
doubt  or  depreciation.  They  have  made  sacri- 
fices that  should  relieve  them  from  suspicion,  and 
which  Her  Majesty's  Government  should  remem- 
ber as  a  pledge  of  their  fidelity.  No  portion  of 
the  empire  is  exposed  to  sufferings  and  sacrifices 
equal  to  those  which  would  inevitably  fall  upon 
this  province  in  the  event  of  war  with  the  United 
States.  No  probable  combination  of  regular 
troops  and  militia  would  preserve  our  soil  from 
invading  armies  ;  and  no  fortune  which  the  most 
sanguine  dare  hope  for  would  prevent  our  most 
flourishing  districts  from  being  the  battle  field  of 
the  war.  Our  trade  would  be  brought  to  a  stand- 
still, our  industry  would  be  paralyzed,  our  richest 
farming  lands  devastated,  our  towns  and  villaores 
destroyed  ;  homes,  happy  in  peace,  would  be 
rendered  miserable  by  war,  and  all  as  the  result 
of  events  for  the  production  of  which  Canada 
would  be  in  no  wise  accountable. 

And,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  is  not  only 
the  language  in  ti-iies  past  of  leading  poli- 
ticians in  Canada.  Hon.  gentlemen  may  call 
to  mind  the  writings  and  sayings  to  the  same 
effect  of  laen  in  the  eastern  provinces — men 
now  hoiuing  high  position  under  the  Impe- 


274 


rial  Government.     One  hon.  gentlemen,  to 
whom    I    have    particular   reference    (Hon. 
Joseph  Howe)  declared  it  was  unreasonable 
to  expect  that  we  should  defend  ourselves 
against  a  foreign   power,   when   we  had  no 
voice   either  in  the  declarinsr  of  war  or  the 
making  of  peace — that  while  we  were  (juite 
ready,  as  in  times  past,  to  expose  our  persons 
and    property  to  meet   the  invader  at   the 
threshold  of  our  country,  we  were  unwilling 
to   take  upon  ourselves,  as  colonists,  a  duty 
which   belonged  to  the  parent   state.    But 
does  this  correspond  with  the  views  that  are 
now  adopted  by  the  Ministry  of  the  day  ?    I 
hold  in   my   hand  an  extract  f^-om  a  speech 
delivered  by  one  of  the  most  prominent  mem- 
bers of  the  Government  at  a  recent  banquet 
in  the  city  of  Toronto.     And  what  did  that 
hon.  gentleman  say  ?    Speaking  of  the  Con- 
ference   at    Quebec,    he    stated    that    ''  the 
delegates    unanimously    resolved    that    the 
United  Provinces  of  British  North  America 
shall  be  placed  at  the  earliest  moment  in  a 
thorough  state  of  defence,"  Hon.  gentlemen, 
T  was  not  aware  that  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment had  ever   cast  off  the   burden  of  the 
defence  of  this  province.     But  we  are  told 
by  an  hon.  gentleman,  high  in  the  Execu- 
tive, that  this   Conference,  self-appointed  as 
it  was,  by  a  resolution    that  we   do   not  see 
laid  upon  the  table,  promised  to  place  the 
province  in  a  thorough  state  of  defence.  Hon. 
gentlemen,  what  does  that  mean  ?    It  means 
an  expendeture  here  of  Tour  or  five  millions 
of  dollars   annually,   or   else   the  statement 
exceeded  the  truth.    Again  the  hon.  gentle- 
man stated  : — "  The  Conference  at  Quebec 
did  not  separate  before  entering  into  a  pledge 
to  put  the  military  and  naval   defences  of 
the    united    provinces    in   the    most    com- 
plete   and    satisfactory    position."      Before 
we    discuss    this  scheme    further — before 
wc    are  called     on    to    give   a    vote     upon 
it — I  say  we  ought  to  know  something  move 
with    reference    to    this    important    matter. 
(Hear,  hear).  Hon.  gentlemen  may  perhaps 
argue    that   there   is   no   necessity   for  this 
question  going  to  the  people  —  no  necessity 
for  further  time  being  allowed  to  the  people 
of  Upper   Canada  or  of  Canada  generally  to 
consider  this  matter.   Why,  hon.  gentlemen, 
has  it  not  been  stated  by  every  hon.  member 
who  has  taken  the  floor  to  address  the  House 
on   this  question,  that  it  is  the  most  impor- 
tant question  ever  submitted   to  this  or  any 
other  British  Colonial  Ijcgislature  ?  And  }('t 
many  of  those  hon.   members  are  unwilling 


that  the  people  of  this  country  should  have 
any  further  time  to  consider  this  important 
niatter — although,  by  the  laws  of  our  land, 
no  municipality  has  a  right  to  enact  or  pass 
a  by-law  creating  a  little  petty  debt,  not  to  be 
paid  off  within  a  year,  witliout  submitting  it 
first  to  the  vote  of  the  people.  (Hear.)  Hon. 
gentlemen  assign  as  a  reason  why  the  matter 
should  not  be  submitted  to  the  people — that 
we  have  had  a  number  of  elections  to  this 
House  since  it  was  known  that  the  scheme 
of  Confederation  was  under  the  consideration 
of  the  Government,  and  that  these  elections 
went  favorably  to  the  scheme.  I  would  ask, 
hon.  gentlemen,  how  m;iny  elections  have 
we  had  in  Upper  Canada  since  the  scheme 
was  printed  and  laid  before  the  people  ?  I 
would  like  to  see  the  hon.  gentleman   stand 


up, 


who  has  been  elected  to  come  here  to 


vote  upon  this  scheme  since  it  was  submitted 
to  the  people.     It  is  true  we  have  had  one 
election  in  Upper  Canada  since  that  time — 
my  hon.  friend  near  me  (Hon.  Mr.  Simpson) 
alluded  to  it  yesterday — the  election  in  South 
Ontario,  a  constituency  until  recently  repre- 
sented by  one  of  the  hon.   gentlemen  who 
entered    the  Ministry    which    brings    this 
scheme   before    us--our    present    esteemed 
Vice-Chanceller  of  Upper  Canada,  Hon.  Mr. 
MowAT.     What  did  the  candidates  say  at 
that  election  ?     Both  of  them,  as  stated  by 
my    honorable    friend,    in    asking   the    suf- 
frages of  the  people,  had  to  promise  that,  if 
elected    to    Parliament,    they    would    vote 
for  a  submission    of  this    scheme    to    the 
people.      (Hear,    hear.)      And    that  is  the 
last  election  we  have  had  in  Upper  Canada. 
It  is  true  that  many  honorable  gentlemen 
now    present,    in    their   addresses    to    their 
several  constituencies,  when  seeking  election 
last  fall,    said   they  were  in  favor  of  a  union 
ol  the   British   North  American  Provinces. 
But,  hon.  gentlemen,    there  is  not  a  man  in 
this  chamber,  within  the  sound  of  my  voice, 
who  would  not  say  the  same.     I   am  myself 
as  much  in  favor  of  Confederation  to-<l;iy  as 
evtr  I  was  in  my  life  ;  and  I  will  challenge 
any  one  to  say  that  at  any  time,  on  any  public 
occasion,  I  ever.-^aid  ai.ght  againstthescheme 
of  the   Confederation    of  the  British  North 
American    Provinces.     (^Hear,  hear. )     But, 
honorable  gentlemen,   when    I  look  at  this 
scheme,   imperfect  as   I   conceive   it   to   be, 
it  receives  my  oppo.sitiou,  not  because  it  is  a 
scheme    for    the    Confederation    of   British 
North  America,  but  because  it  is  a   scheme 
containing   within   itself   the    germs   of  itB 


275 


destruction.  The  resolution  before  the 
House  is  not,  as  I  said  before,  aim^^d  at 
the  destruction  of  the  scheme  ;  and  I  hope, 
before  the  debate  closes,  the  Grovernment 
will  see  tlie  propriety  and  the  advisability  of 
granting  the  reasonable  delay  therein  asked 
for.  Suppose  the  Government  concedes  even 
the  short  delay  of  one  month,  it  can  do  no 
possible  harm  to  the  measure.  If  the  mea- 
sure be  good — if  it  be  so  desirable  ss  the 
governments  of  the  respective  provinces  tell 
us  it  is — the  simple  permitting  it  to  stand 
over  for  a  month  will  certainly  not  destroy 
it.  If,  on  the  other  hand,  it  be  bad — if  it 
contain  within  itself  the  elements  of  decay — 
it  is  better  to  know  it  now  than  hereafter, 
when  the  resolutions  will  have  been  embodied 
in  a  Statute  over  which  we  have  no  control. 
To  shew  my  own  feeling  in  the  matter,  all 
I  have  to  say  is  this :  give  a  reasonable; 
delay — allow  the  section  of  the  country  I 
have  the  honor  to  represent  to  speak  on  the 
subject,  and  if  it  be  found  to  be  the  will  of 
my  constituents  that  the  measure  in  its 
present  shape  be  adopted,  honorable  gentle- 
men may  be  assured  that  I  shall  give  them 
no  further  opposition  ;  and  that  instead  of 
doing  everything  in  my  power  to  impede  the 
progress  of  these  resolutions,  I  will  do  nothing 
to  impede  their  progress  through  the  House. 
"  But,"  say  hon.  gentlemen,  "delay  means 
defeat."  If  it  be  a  good  measure — if  it 
commend  itself  to  the  approval  of  the  people, 
supported  as  it  is  by  the  most  able  and 
brilliant  men  in  Parliament — the  scheme  is 
in  no  danger.  And,  hon.  gentlemea,  sup- 
posing a  n.onth's  delay  is  granted,  we  will 
even  then  be  turther  advanced  with  the 
measure  than  the  people  of  the  eastern  pro- 
vinces. The  writs  for  the  elections  in  New 
Brunswick  are  returnable,  if  I  mistake  not, 
on  the  25th  March. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  — On  the  9th 
March. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURIIIE— Then  it  will  be  at 
least  the  21st  or  22nd  of  March  before  the 
Legislature  of  that  colony  can  be  called 
together. 

Hon.  Mb..  CAMPBELL— I  misunder- 
stood the  statement  made  by  my  hon.  friend. 
What  I  meant  to  say  was  that  the  Legislature 
of  New  Brunswick  is  expected  to  assemble 
on  the  8th  or  9th  of  March. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURIIIE— Then  they  are  going 
to  hurry  up  matters  there,'  I  am  sorry  to 
hear,  nearly  as  fast  as  in  Canada,  the  people 
of  which  have  not  had  the  same  opportunity, 


at  all  events,  of  considering  the  question  as 
the  people  of  New  Brunswick.  The  people 
of  New  Brunswick  seem  to  be  fully  alive  to 
the  importance  of  this  momentous  question, 
and  I  hope  that  when  their  verdict  is  given 
it  will  be  a  well-considored  verdict ;  but  this 
we  do  know,  that  it  will  not  be  given  until 
after  a  free  and  fair  opportunity  has  been 
aflforded  thcm  of  discussing  the  question  on 
its  merits  in  all  its  bearings.  My  hon.  friend 
from  the  Western  Division  (Hon.  Mr. 
McCrea)  really  surprised  me  the  other  day 
when  he  declared  that  an  elective  Legislative 
Council  was  neither  asked  for  nor  desired  by 
the  people.-  My  recollection  is  that  the 
Council  under  the  nominative  system  was  a 
standing  grievance  in  Lower  Canadi  as  well 
as  in  Upper  Canada. 

Hon.   Mr.  McCREA— That  was  before 
the  union. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  demand  arose 
that  the  Council  should  be  elective. 

Hon.    Mr.    McCREA  — Not    alter  the 
union. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My  hon.  friend  is, 
I  can  assure  him,  mistaken  in  stating  that 
there  were  no  petitions  in  favor  of  an  elective 
Legislative  Council  at  the  time  of  the  change. 
If  my  hon.  friend  will  consult  the  Journals 
of  Parliament,  he  will  find  there  petitions  for 
the  change ;  he  will  find  also  that  from  the 
town  of  Cobourg  a  petition  was  received  in 
favor  of  representation  by  population  in 
this  as  well  as  in  the  other  branch  of  the 
Legislature.  Butmy  hon.  friend,  in  his  igno-  i 
ranee  of  the  facts  of  the  case — although  he 
certainly  handled  the  subject  with  a  good 
deal  of  ability,  though  not  with  the  ability 
he  usually  puts  torth  when  he  has  a  good 
cause  to  plead — (a  laugh) — mide  a  state- 
ment which  he  could  scarcely  have  considered 
before  bringing  it  under  the  notice  ot  the 
House.  He  said  that  a  House  appointed  by 
the  Crown  would  be  more  responsible  to  the 
people  than  the  present  House.  That,  hon. 
gentlemen,  is  cer.ainly  a  new  doctrine  to 
me.  If  such  would  be  the  case,  why,  I  ask, 
do  you  not  apply  the  same  system  to  the 
other  branch  of  the  Legislature  ?  In  such 
an  event  I  feel  assured  that  the  G-overnmect 
of  the  day  would  have  a  much  more  comfort- 
able and  pleasant  life  of  it  than  even  the 
present  Government,  strong  and  talented  as 
they  undoubtedly  are.  (Laughter.)  But, 
says  my  hon.  friend,  once  more,  the  people 
of  Canada  are  in  favor  of  the  scheme,  in 
regard  to  which  they  have  had  ample  time 


276 


for  holding  meetings  and  adopting  petitions. 
3?ut,  I  would  ask  what  did  most  of  the  mem- 
bers even  of  this  House  know  of  the  scheme 
when  they  first  came  to  Quebec  ?  Did  we 
know  as  much  about  it  then  as  we  know 
now? 

Hon.  Mil.  ROSS— Yes. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My  hon.  friend 
from  Toronto  says,  "  Yes." 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— No. 

Hon.  Mk.  CURRIE — Another  hon.  mem- 
ber replies,  "  no."  I  may  say  for  myself  that  I 
have  learned  something  even  from  the  speech 
of  my  hon.  friend  from  Toronto  that  I  did 
not  know  before.  The  people  of  the  country 
have  been  waiting,  expecting  this  matter 
would  be  discussed  in  Parliament,  and  that 
the  whole  scheme  would  be  presented  so  as 
to  enable  its  being  judged  of  as  a  whole. 
Unfortunately,  however,  it  is  only  a  part  of 
the  scheme  which  we  have  at  this  moment 
before  the  Council.  I  did  not  have  the  plea- 
sure of  hearing  the  whole  of  the  remarks  of 
my  hon.  friend  from  Montreal  (Hon.  Mr. 
Ferrier),  but  I  was  greatly  interested  in 
listening  to  the  portion  I  did  hear.  I  refer 
lo  whiH  he  said  respecting  the  ministerial 
crisis  in  June  last.  I  thought  that  the  cele- 
brated memorandum,  which,  by  the  bye, 
has  since  been  in  great  part  repudiated  by 
the  Grovernment  of  the  day,  contained  all 
the  Ministerial  explanations.  But  that  scene, 
so  foicibly  described  by  the  hon.  gentleman, 
where  the  President  of  the  Council  met  the 
Attorney  General  East — 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— I  did  not  say  I 
saw  it.     I  only  heard  of  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— When  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Cartier  embraced  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Brown.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— I  simply  said  it 
was  so  report. d  ou  the  streets. 

Hon.xMr.  CURRIE— And  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Brown  promised  eternal  allegiance  to  the 
Hon.  Mr.  Cartier.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mi.  FERRIER— I  wa.s  simply 
giving  the  on-dit  of  the  day.  I  said  I  knew 
uothiag  whatever  of  it  further  than  what  I 
had  heard  on  the  streets. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  must  have  mis- 
uuderatood  my  hon.  I'rieud.  I  thouglit  he  was 
a  witness  of  the  affecting  scone.  (Laughter.) 
But  my  hon.  friend  did  tell  the  House 
something  which  was  now  to  mo,  ami  which 
must  have  sounded  as  new  to  tlio  cuuiitr)', 
when  he  said  that  the  Grand  Trunk  Railway 
coat  the  people  of  Canada  very  little.     The 


hon.  gentleman  seemed  to  think  that  I  was 
very  much  opposed  to  the  Grand  Trunk. 
But  never  in  my  life  have  I  spoken  a 
single  word  against  the  Grand  Trunk  as  a 
railway.  I  beKeve  there  is  no  hon.  gentle- 
man who  can  possibly  appreciate  more 
highly  the  commercial  advantages  tj  this 
Country  of  that  work  than  I  do.  At  the 
same  time,  I  have  taken  occasion,  and  may 
do  so  again  if  the  necessity  requires  it,  to 
speak  of  some  of  the  transactions  connected 
with  that  undertaking.  Let  this  work  or 
any  other  public  work  come  under  the  atten- 
tion of  this  Chamber,  and  it  will  receive  at 
my  hands  in  the  future,  as  in  the  past,  that 
degree  of  consideration  to  which  as  a  public 
work  it  is  entitled.  I  hope  the  day  is  not 
far  distant  when  the  Grand  Trunk  will 
become  what  it  ought  to  be,  a  strictly  and 
entirely  commercial  work,  and  when  the 
people  of  all  classes  and  parties  will  look 
upon  it  with  favor. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIER— It  is  strictly  a 
commercial  work  now. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My  hon.  friend 
stated  that  it  had  cost  the  country  a  mere 
trifle.  But  unluckily  the  Public  Accounts 
do  not  tell  the  same  story,  and  they  do  not 
exactly  confirm  the  views  of  my  hon.  friend 
in  relation  to  this  work.  If  he  looks  at  the 
assets  of  the  province — the  valuables  of  the 
province — he  will  find  there  is  a  charge 
against  the  Grand  Trunk  of  S15,I42,0U0 
for  debentures.  And  besides  there  is  this 
little  $100,000  which  has  be3n  used  in  re- 
deeming the  city  of  Montreal  bonds.  There 
is  something  more  besides  about  subsidiary 
lines. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERRIi-^R— I  spoke  of  the 
first  capital  investment. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My  hon.  friend 
from  the  Erie  Di/ision  (Hon.  Mr.  Christfe) 
admitted  in  opening  his  case  that  this  scheme 
was  very  much  marred  by  its  details.  Ad- 
mitting this — which  is  just  the  whole  argu- 
ment— that  the  details  so  greatly  mar  the 
scheme,  it  is  much  to  be  feared  that  the 
measure  will  not  work  so  peacefully,  use- 
fully, or  harmoniously  as  its  originators 
expected,  and  i  believe  sincerely  hoped  it 
would  do;  because  I  do  these  hon.  gentlemen 
the  credit  of  believing  that  in  devising  a 
.scheme  which  should  be  for  the  future  as 
well  as  the  i)resent  welfare  of  the  country, 
they  wore  animated  by  a  desire  to  do  the  very 
host  they  could  under  the  circumstances. 
Their   groat  error,   in   my   opinion,   lay  in 


277 


their   yielding    too   much   on   the  part   of 
Canada  to  gratify  the  eastern  provinces,   so 
as  to  enable  them  to  bring  about  this  scheme 
at  the  present  moment.     If  the  scheme  is* 
so  marred  in  its   details  as   to   destroy  the 
whole  measure,   why  not  reject  it'/     Then 
my  hon.  friend  alluded  to  the  state    of  the 
country,  just  before  the  present  Government 
was  formed,  in  terms  which  I  hardlv  think 
he  was  justified  in  using.     He  claimed  that 
the  country  was  in  a  state   of  anarchy  and 
confusion.     Now,  hon.  gentlemen,  I  must 
say  that  for  my  part   I   saw   none   of  that 
anarchy,   and    I    must    say   very    little    of 
that   confusion.     I    assert    that  there    may 
be    witnessed    in    other    lands    what    was 
witnessed  in  this.     We  saw  weak   govern- 
ments staving  month  after  month  to   keep 
themselves   in    power,    and    we   saw   these 
governments     daily     and   hourly    attacked 
by  a  strong  and  wary  opposition.     But,  hon. 
gentlemen,    I    have  yet   to   learn    that  the 
giving  of  17  additional   members  to  Upper 
Canada  and  47  members  to  the  eastern   pro- 
vinces will  ensure  us  against  the  same  state 
of  things  in  the  future.  Ic  was  very  well  put 
by  the  hon.  member   for  Wellington   (Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn)  when  he  said,  if  there  was 
more   patriotism  on   the  part  of  our  public 
men,  and  less  desire  to  sacrifice  the  country 
for  the  good  of  party,  we  would  not  have  had 
that  state   of  confusion   to   which   my  hon. 
friend  from  the   Erie  Division  has  alluded. 
Then  my  hon.   friend   who  represents    the 
Erie  Division,  in  order  to  fortify  the  position 
he  took  in  supporting  the  scheme,   took   up 
the  resolutions  adopted  by  the  Toronto  E-3- 
form  Convention  in  1859.    He  stated  that  I 
was  a  delegate  present  at  that  convention  ; 
but  I  can  only   say  that,  although  elected  a 
delegate,  I  took  no  part  in  the  proceedings, 
and  know  nothing  more   of  them    than   I 
learned   from  the  public   prints.     The   hon. 
gentleman,  however,  conveniently  read  only 
apart  of  the  resolutions.   But  it  must  be  ad- 
mitted that  these  resolutions  were  the  iden- 
tical basis  upon   which  the  present  Grovern- 
ment    was    organized.       This  Grovernment 
was  organized  for   the   express   purpose  of 
carrying  out  the  arrangements  embodied  in 
the    resolutions    of  that  body.     And,   hon. 
gentlemen,   a  committee  was  appointed  by 
the  Toronto  Convention,  and  that  committee 
prepared  a  draft  address  to  the  public.  That 
was  submitted  to  the  executive  committee, 
and  considered  on  the  15th  of  February,  1860, 
and  was  revised  and  sent  to  the  country  as 


the  address  of  the  convention,  of  which  the 
hon.  member  for  Erie  was  a  member,  and 
over  which  he  also  presided  as  one  of 
the  vice-chairmen.  And  what  did  they 
say  ?  That  convention  never  intended  that 
Parliament  should  change  the  Constitution  or 
give  us  a  new  Constitution  without  consulting 
the  people  and  allowing  the  public  an  oppor- 
tunity of  passing  its  judgment  upon  the  pro- 
posed new  Constitution.  And  how  did  this 
convection  propose  to  secure  the  people  the 
right  of  passing  judgment  upon  so  impor- 
tant a  scheme  as  the  adoption  of  a  new 
Constitution  ?  Here  it  is,  in  large  type — and 
I  have  no  doubt  my  hon.  friend  has  often 
read  it  in  going  through  his  large,  wealthy, 
and  prosperous  division. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— It  was  not  pre- 
sented to  the  convention. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURBIE-— I  wish  to  put  my 
hon.  friend  right.  The  meeting  was  held 
on  the  23rd  September,  1859,  and  was 
presided  over  by  the  late  Hon.  Adam  Fer- 
GUSSON  ;  and  my  hon    friend,  the  member 


for  Erie  Division,  and  Mr.  D.  A.  Macdon- 
ALD  were  vice-presidents.  A  special  com- 
mittee was  appointed  at  that  meeting  to 
draft  an  address  to  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  on  the  political  affairs  of  the  pro- 
vince in  support  of  the  resolutions  then 
adopted.  A  draft  of  the  address  was  sub- 
mitted to  the  executive  committee. 

Hon.    Mr.    CHRISTIE— I  was   not   a 
member  of  that  committee. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  public  meeting 
was  held  on  the  15th  February,  1860. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— And  when  wan 
the  address  published  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— It  was  published 
in  this  shape  in  February,  1860.    Well,  one 
of  the  provisions  contained  in  that  address 
was  th:s  : — "  Secure  these  rights  by  a  writ- 
ten Constitution,  ratified  by  the  people,  and 
incapable  of  alteration  except  by  their  for- 
mal sanction."     Hon.  gentlemen,  I  fear  the 
hon.  member  for  Erie  Division  will  hardly  be 
able  to  justify  the  course  he  feels  called  upon 
to  take  on  this  occ  asion  by  anything  contained 
in  the  address  or  the  resolutions  of  the  Toronto 
convention.  The  hon.  gentleman  would  never 
have  thought  of  preparing  such  a  scheme  as 
this  to  be  submitted  to  the  members  of  such 
a  convention.   But  think  you  that  had  such  a 
scheme  been  presented  they  would  not  have 
demanded   that   it  should   be    left   to    the 
people  ?     Think  you,  hon.   gentlemen,  that 
that  scheme  would  have  met  the  approval 


278 


of  that  body  in  its  present  shape?  I  am 
sure  that  my  hon.  friend,  warm  as  be  now  is 
in  support  of  the  scheme,  could  hardly  have 
accepted  such  an  issue.  I  am  sure  that 
even  the  present  Government,  backed  as 
they  are  by  a  large  majority  in  both  branches 
of  the  Legislature,  and  posbessing  as  they 
do  a  large  amount  of  the  talent, — I  may 
say  a  majority  of  the  talent — of  Parliament, 
dare  not  bring  such  resolutions  down  as 
a  Grovernment  measure  and  ask  the  Legis- 
lature to  support  them  in  carrying  it  through. 
Then  my  hon.  friend  thought  that  the  scheme 
had  gone  through  the  length  and  breadth  of 
the  land.  Hon.  gentlemen,  it  is  quite  true 
that  the  resolutions  have  gone  through  the 
length  and  breadth  of  the  land  ;  but  where 
has  there  been  that  discussion  in  Canada 
to  which  resolutions  of  so  much  importance 
are  entitled  —  except  in  Lower  Canada, 
where  I  am  told  that  fifteen  counties  have 
repudiated  the  resolutions  when  they  were 
submitted  to  public  meetings?  And  in  Upper. 
Canada,  where  is  the  single  instance  of 
discussion  of  the  facts  having  taken  place 
except  in  the  city  of  Toronto,  where  there 
was  little  or  no  discussion,  and  where  it  was 
promi.'-ed  that  that  city,  like  Quebec,  should 
be  made  the  seat  of  one  of  the  local  govern- 
ments ?  I  understood  my  hon.  friend  from 
Erie  Division  to  take  issue  on  the  fact  that 
the  delegates  to  the  Conference  were  not 
self-elected,  and  I  heard  my  hon.  friend 
from  Montreal  deny  it  also.  But  if  yuutake 
up  a  copy  of  the  resolutions  and  the  des- 
patches accompanying  them,  you  will  find 
that  they  were  in  every  sense  of  the  word 
self-elected.  And  if  they  were  not  selt- 
elected,  who  deputed  them  to  come  and  do 
what  they  have  done  ?  Did  the  basis  on 
which  the  Government  was  formed  authorize 
them  to  enter  into  this  compact  ?  The  basis 
on  which  the  Government  was  formed  speaks 
for  itself.  The  measure  they  promised 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada  was  simply  a 
measure  to  settle  the  existing  difficulties 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  They 
were  to  form  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  into 
a  Federation  upon  such  a  basis  as  would  here- 
after allow  the  other  provinces,  if  agreeable, 
and  if  they  could  agree  as  to  terms,  to  also 
enter  the  Federation.  These  are  the  bases 
en  which  the  present  Government  was  form- 
ed, and  these  are  the  bases  on  which  the 
members  of  that  Government  went  to  the 
country  and  asked  for  the  support  of  their 
constituents.     And  to  bear  me  out  in  this 


assertion,  I  have  only  to  read  the  language 
of  Ffis  Excellency  the  Governor  General  as 
I  find  it  embodied  in  His  Excellency's  Speech 
at  the  close  of  the  last  se-sion  of  Parliament. 
You  will  find  it  in  the  latter  part  of  the 
Speech.  His  Excellency  says  : — ■"■  The  time 
has  arrived  when  the  constitutional  question, 
which  has  for  many  years  agitatjd  this  prov- 
ince, is  ripe  for  settlement."  What  prov- 
ince is  alluded  to  in  this  paragraph  ?  Most 
certainly  the  province  of  Canada.  '  It  is 
my  intention,"  proceeds  His  Excellency, 
"  during  the  approaching  recess,  to  endeavor 
*o  devise  a  plan  for  this  purpose,  which  wilf 
be  laid  before  P;irliament  at  its  next  meet- 
ing." Hon.  gentlemen,  where  is  that  plan  ? 
Where  is  the  measure  so  promised  in  the 
Speech  from  the  Throne .  "  In  releasing  you 
from  further  attendance,"  His  Excellency 
goes  on  to  say,  "I  would  impress  upon  you 
the  importance  of  using  the  influence  which 
the  confidence  of  your  fellow  subjects  con- 
fers upon  you  to  secure  for  any  scheme  which 
may  be  prepared  with  this  object  a  calm  and 
impartial  consideration  both  in  Parliament 
and  throughout  the  country."  Now,  what 
does  this  mean  ?  If  it  means  anything, 
it  means  this,  that  the  Government  pro- 
raised  to  bring  down  a  measure  to  this 
Legislature  to  enable  us  to  ConfederateUpper 
and  Lower  Canada.  "Well,"  hon.  gentlemen 
say,  "  they  have  brought  down  a  larger 
scheme."  Yes,  but  who  asked  them  to  bring 
down  that  scheme  ?  It  is  said  that  it  makes 
no  difi"erence  which  scheme  was  laid  before 
the  House ;  but  I  contend  that  it  makes  all 
the  difference,  for  if  these  resolutions  had 
reference  simply  to  Upper  and  Lower  Cana- 
da, they  would  be  susceptible  of  amend- 
ment by  this  House.  In  such  a  case, 
hon.  gentlemen  would  not  have  come 
down  as  we  now  see  them  shaking  their 
resolutions  in  the  face  of  the  iiiiembers 
of  the  Legislature,  and  saying,  '*  Here  is  a 
treaty  which  you  must  accept  in  its  entirety 
or  not  at  all."  They  would  not  be  warning 
us  at  our  peril  to  alter  a  word  or  erase  a  line 
on  pain  of  being  branded  as  disuniouists,  or 
perhaps  something  worse  than  that.  Had 
they  brought  down  the  resolutions  they  were 
pledged  to  bring  down,  we  would  be  sitting 
here  calmly  and  dispassionately,  aided  by 
the  Government  of  the  day,  framing  a 
measure  which  would  be  in  very  deed  for 
the  benefit  of  the  two  provinces.  But  why 
do  the  Government  seek  to  shelter  them- 
selves so  completely  behind   these   resolu- 


279 


tions — resolutions  which,  as  they  stand, 
are  incapable  of  justification  —  resolutions 
which  shew  concession  after  concession  to 
have  been  made  to  the  eastern  provinces, 
but  not  one  of  which  (I  challenge  them  to 
the  proof)  was  made  by  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces to  the  people  of  Canada  ?  Then  look 
at  the  representation  at  the  Conference. 
Both  parties,  I  believe,  from  all  the  provinces 
were  represented,  except  as  regards  one  sec- 
tion of  Canada.  There  was  no  one  repre- 
senting in  the  Conference  the  Liberal  party 
in  Lower  Cunada.  (Hear,  hear.)  While 
in  the  eastern  provinces  the  Government 
of  the  day  were  magnanimous  enough  to  ask 
the  cooperation  and  consideration  of  the 
leaders  of  the  Opposition  in  tlio&e  provinces, 
the  hon.  gentlemen  in  Canada  ignored 
entirely  the  existence  of  the  Liberal  party 
in  Lower  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  My  hon. 
fiiend  from  the  Erie  Division  tells  us  that 
he  is  strongly  opposed  to  the  details  of  the 
scheme. 

Hon.  Mr.  CHRISTIE— I  did  not  say 
so.  I  stated  in  reference  to  the  elective 
principle  that  I  was  opposed  to  its  abro- 
gation. 

Hon,  XiR.  CURRIE— If  the  hon.  gentle- 
man feels  towards  the  elective  principle  as 
strongly  as  I  do,  he  will  oppose  its  abro- 
gation to  the  last.  I  have  reason  to  teel 
strongly  in  regard  to  that  principle,  being,  like 
himself,  indebted  for  it  to  a  seat  in  the  Le- 
gislature ;  and  I  will  resist  the  measure  very 
long  before  I  vote  against  a  principle  giving 
the  people  power  to  send  me  here  as  their 
representative.  The  hon.  gentleman  also  told 
us  that  the  whole  country  is  in  favor  of 
Federation.  I  have  no  doubt  the  whole  coun- 
try is  in  favor  of  Federation  in  itself,  but  there 
are  many  people  throughout  Canada  who  are 
opposed  to  the  present  scheme  on  account  of 
its  details.  Then  the  hon.  gentleman  declared 
that  the  country  understood  the  scheme. 
Now,  what  better  illustration  can  we  have  of 
the  falsity  of  this  position  than  what  was 
witnessed  on  the  floor  of  this  House  last 
night  ?  We  then  heard  one  of  the  most  intel- 
ligent and  one  of  the  most  able  members  of  the 
mercantile  community  in  Upper  Canada,  my 
hon.  friend  from  Ottawa  Division  (Hon.  Mr. 
i?KEAD)  tell  us  it  was  only  within  the  last 
twenty-four  hours  that  he  had  understood  the 
scheme  as  now  submitted  to  the  House.  And 
yet  we  are  gravely  told  that  the  whole  country 
understands  it  I  Do  the  people  of  the  pro- 
vince generally  know  anything  in  reference 


to  the  cost  of  working  the  scheme  ?  Hon. 
gentlemen,  it  has  been  stated  in  various  parts 
of  the  country,  by  leading  public  men  of  the 
country,  that  the  local  subsidies  proposed 
in  the  scheme  will  be  more  than  sufficient 
to  carry  on  the  local  L'-overnments  of  the 
several  provinces.  But,  hon.  gentlemen,  we 
must  judge  of  the  future  by  the  experience 
aJBforded  by  the  past.  If  you  will  look  at  the 
Public  Accounts  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
— take  for  instance  Upper  Canad  i  in  1838, — ' 
you  will  find  that  the  expenditure  on  450,000 
of  a  p  pulation  was  §885,000  for  one  year. 
But  hon.  gentlemen  may  assert  th:it  at  that 
time  Upper  Canada  hid  to  bear  the 
burdens  of  the  militia  and  pay  the  cost  of 
collecting  the  customs,  and  some  other  small 
charges  which  it  is  now  proposed  to  throw 
on  the  Federal  Government.  But  what  were 
the.  charges  of  the  militia  for  that  year  ?  The 
insignificant  sum  of  £649.  193.  IIH-  Then 
there  was  received  from  fees  and  commissions 
£317  15s.,  thus  making  the  total  cost  of  the 
militia  to  Upper  Canada  no  more  than 
£332.4s.  lUd.  Then  as  to  customs.  Why, 
honorable  gentlemen,  the  whole  cost  of 
collecting  the  customs  revenue  in  Upper 
Canada,  during  the  year  1838,  amounted 
to  £2,792.  14s.  2d. — just  about  one  half 
the  cost,  hardly  one  half  the  cost  —  of 
collecting  the  present  duties  at  the  port 
of  Toronto.  Then  if  you  come  down  to 
Lower  Canada  you  will  find  that  at  the  time 
of  the  union  you  had  a  population  of  650,0  '0 
souls,  and  that  the  expense  of  governing  the 
people  was  $573,348.  And  I  venture  to 
say  that  no  people  in  the  world  were  ever 
more  cheaply  governed  than  were  the  people 
of  Lower  Canada  before  the  union.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But  if  vou  can  govern  them  after  t'-e 
union  just  as  cheaply  per  head  as  before,  what 
do  you  find  ?  You  will  require  §980,000  to 
carry  on  the  government  of  the  country, 
independent  of  paying  the  interest  upon  the 
large  portion  of  debt  saddled  upon  you.  In 
Upper  Canada,  we  have  been  told  that  we 
really  shall  not  know  'what  to  do  with  the 
large  amount  of  money  about  to  be  lavished 
on  the  Local  Legislature.   (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA— Who  said  that— 
that  we  would  have  more  money  than  we 
know  what  to  do  with  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— You  must  have 
read  it  in  the  speeches  made  in  the  other 
House,  and  particularl/  in  the  speeches  of 
the  Hon.  Mr,  Brown.  Well,  if  we  can 
govern  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  as  cheap- 


280 


ly  after  the  union  as  before,  it  will  cost 
12,170,000  or  $1,054,000  more  than  the 
amount  of  the  local  subsidy.  I  am  sure  no 
hon.  gentleman  will  believe  that  we  are  going 
to  be  more  saving  of  the  public  money  in 
the  future  than  we  were  in  those  early  days 
of  our  history.  Hon.  gentlemen,  it  is  said 
that  the  people  of  the  country  have  had  those 
resolutions  before  them,  that  they  perfectly 
understand  them,  and  that  they  are  pre- 
pared to  pass  a  dispassionate  judgment  in 
the  matter.  It  ill  becomes  the  members  of 
the  Government  to  make  such  a  statement. 
Why,  what  has  been  witnessed  on  the  floor 
of  this  House  ?  A  simple  question  was  put 
to  the  Hon.  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands 
as  to  the  manner  in  which  the  members  of 
the  Legislative  Councils  of  the  various  pro- 
vinces were  to  be  appointed.  The  Hon. 
Commissioner  informed  us  that  the  appoint- 
ments were  to  be  made  by  the  local  govern- 
ments, and  he  was  confirmed  in  that  view  by 
the  hon.  and  gallant  Premier,  who  had  the 
dignity  conferred  upon  him  of  presiding  over 
the  Conference  of  delegates  held  in  this 
city. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  do  not  think 
that  my  hon.  colleague  said  anything  on  the 
subject. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  understood  him 
to  confirm  the  statement  of  the  Hon.  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands.  But  at  all 
events,  he  heard  the  statement  and  did  not 
object  to  it.  But  what  did  you  find  ?  After 
the  absurdity  of  that  position  was  pointed 
out,  my  hon.  friend,  the  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands,  asks  a  day  to  give  an  answer 
to  the  question,  and  he  comes  down  next 
day  and  gives  a  totally  difi'erent  reply.  A 
few  days  later,  the  question  of  the  export 
duty  on  the  minerals  of  Nova  Scotia  came 
under  considerati'^n,  and  I  understood  the 
Hon.  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands  as 
saying  that  in  his  opinion  only  the  coal  and 
minerals  exported  to  foreign  countries  would 
be  liable  to  duty.  But  according  to  the 
explanations  given  by  the  hun.  gentleman 
afterwards,  I  understand  that  the  export 
duty  will  apply  to  all  coal  and  minerals 
exporttid  from  Nova  Scotia.  My  hon.  friend 
went  on  to  explain  the  meaning  of  this 
export  c'uty.  And  what  is  his  explanation  ? 
He  tells  us  that  it  is  nothing  more  than  a 
royalty.  The  export  duty  is  imposed  sim|>ly 
upon  the  coal  which  leave  the  country.  In 
Nova  ."^cotia  they  now  impose  a  royalty,  and 
that  royalty  they  intend  to  change  for  an 


export  duty,  and  the  difference  in  their 
favor  will  be  this — that  on  the  coal  they 
consume  themsekes  there  will  be  no  duty, 
but  on  the  coal  they  send  to  Canada  there 
will  be  this  barrier  of  an  export  duty. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— My  hon.  friend  will 
see  this,  that  had  all  the  Crown  lands  in  the 
different  colonies  been  placed  in  the  hands 
of  the  General  Government,  the  General 
Government  would  have  received  all  the 
proceeds  therefrom.  But  those  have  been 
given  to  the  local  governments,  and  as  in 
Upper  Canada  we  will  have  timber  dues,  so 
in  Nova  Scotia  they  are  entitled  to  a  revenue 
from  their  coal. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — Any  one  not  ac- 
quauted  with  the  subject  would  naturally 
fancy  from  thft  language  of  my  hon.  friend 
that  under  Federation  we  are  to  have  some- 
thing which  we  did  not  possess  before.  But 
the  Crown  lands  are  the  property  of  U'^per 
and  Lower  Canada  now,  and  we  are  entitled 
to  the  revenue  from  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — And  so  is  Nova  Scotia 
entitled  to  a  revenue  from  their  coal. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  —But  you  give  them 
a  privilege  not  accorded  to  the  other  pro- 
vinces of  imposing  export  duties.  Hon. 
gentlemen,  I  would  now  desire  to  allude  to 
another  matter  which  I  think  the  people  do 
not  thoroughly  understand,  and  that  is  the 
apportionment  of  ihe  public  debt.  I  stated 
before  and  I  again  assert  that  revenue  is  the 
only  true  basis  on  which  the  people  should 
gj  into  Confederation  as  regards  their  debt; 
at.d  I  think  my  hon.  Iriend  from  the 
Saugeen  Division  (Hon.  Mr.  Macpiierson) 
saw  the  matter  in  the  same  light. 

Hon.  Mr  MACPHEKSON— Notin  this 
case,  because  wo  have  not  the  revenue  to 
base  it  upon. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Why  have  we  not 
the  revenue  to  base  it  upon  ?  Hon.  gentle- 
men, the  Trade  Returns  of  Nova  Scotia, 
New  Brunswick,  and  Prince  Edward  Island, 
are  in  the  Library  below,  and  twenty-four 
hours'  work  of  a  competent  accountant  would 
shew  what  each  province  would  contribute 
to  the  general  revenue  from  her  trade  under 
our  present  tariff. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— But  does  not 
the  hon.  gentleman  see  that  whou  the  tariffs 
are  assimilated,  they  will  not  bring  in  the 
I'uture  what  they  have  brought  in  the  past  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CUIUUE— This  I  can  see,  that 
you  are  giving  to  the  Lower  Prtivinces  pri- 
vileges which  we  do  not  enjoy      Hon.  gen. 


281 


tlemen  speak  of  the  imports  from  the  Mari- 
time Provinces.  But  take  the  import  of 
coal  from  Nova  Scotia,  and  we  find  that  in 
1863,  its  whole  value  amounted  to  $67,000. 
Then  they  refer  to  the  fish  trade.  But  why 
need  we  go  there  for  fish,  when  in  our  own 
waters  we  can  have  for  the  catching  as  fine 
fish  as  the  world  produces  1  But  Confedera- 
tion will  give  us  no  privileges  over  the 
fisheries  which  w,  do  not  at  present  enjoy. 
Canadian  fishermen  can  as  well  go,  and  have 
as  much  the  right  to  go,  and  fish  in  the 
waters  helow  before  as  after  Coofedcration. 
We  will  continue  to  go  there  if  we  desire  it, 
not  because  we  are  members  of  the  Confede- 
racy, but  because  we  are  British  subjects. 
But  I  was  going  to  speak  of  the  trade  of 
these  countries.  %e  derive  now  little  or  no 
duty  from  the  trade  of  the  Lower  Provinces, 
at  tbe  same  time  much  of  the  revenues  of 
the  Lower  Provinces  is  derived  from  exports 
from  those  provinces  to  each  other,  all  of 
which  will  be  lost  to  the  General  Government, 
as  the  Confederation  will  only  be  entitled  to 
collect  duties  on  goods  imported  from  foreign 
countries.  We  are  told,  too,  that  our  tarifi'  is 
to  be  greatly  reduced  under  Confederation. 
I  am  sorry  to  hear  that  statement,  because 
it  is  impossible  that  it  can  be  correct,  and 
there  is  too  much  reason  to  fear  that  it  was 
done  with  a  view  of  influencing  legislation 
elsewhere,  by  holding  out  the  hope  in  New- 
foundland and  in  the  other  provinces,  that 
if  they  joined  us,  the  tarifi"  would  be  less 
burdensome  than  it  is  at  present.  But  if 
the  tariff  is  reduced,  the  people  of  Canada 
may  rest  assured  that  they  will  have 
$4,000,000  or  §5,000,000  to  raise  in  some 
other  way ;  so  that  if  you  take  it  off  the 
tariff,  you  must  put  it  on  the  land.  I  wish 
now,  however,  to  speak  of  the  unfair  appor- 
tionment of  the  debt.  I  have  always  taken 
the  ground  that  revenue  is  the  true  gauge 
by  which  you  can  measure  a  nation's  abi- 
lity to  pay  debt.  Well,  taking  the  tables  of 
the  Fiuance  I^Iinister,  we  find  that  New 
Brunswick,  with  a  revenue  of  81,000.000, 
goes  into  the  Confederation  with  a  debt  of 
$7,000,000,  while  Canada,  with  a  revenue  of 
$11,500,000,  is  only  entitled  to  go  into  the 
Confederation  with  a  debt  of  $62,500,000. 
Is  this  fair  ? — is  it  right  ? — is  it  honest  ? 
Take  the  revenue  as  the  basis  of  ability 
to  pay — and  it  is  the  only  true  basis — and 
instead  of  Canada  going  into  the  Con- 
federation with  a  debt  only  $62,500,000, 
she  woul<'.  be  entitled  to  go  in  with  a  debj. 

37 


of  $80,000,000,  or  more  than  her  present 
indebtedness.  Then  it  is  said  that  the 
people  understand  the  whole  scheme,  and 
that  they  are  perfectly  satisfied  with  it.  If 
that  were  so  we  should  have  petitions  coming 
down.  But  I  have  yet  ti  learn  that,  wh.ni 
the  people,  especiiiliy  of  Upper  Canada, 
understand  the  scheme  and  how  it  is  going 
to  work,  they  will  be  at  all  satisfied  with 
it.  Take  the  little  Island  of  Prince  Edward, 
with  its  population  of  80,857  souls,  or  a  less 
population  than  a  single  constituency  repre- 
seated  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lature, and  we  fiod  it  getting  $15?, 728, 
while  it  is  relieved  of  a  debt  of  $240,638. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  -  And  what 
does  it  contribute.  ? 

Ho.v.  Ma.  CURRIE— It  simply  contri- 
butes custom  and  excise  duties  by  the 
operation  of  the  same  tariff  and  under  the 
.same  law  as  the  people  of  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  —  But  how 
much  does  it  contribute  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  -  I  fiod  the  whole 
revenue  of  the  island  set  down  at  $200,000. 
But,  hon.  gentlemen,  pray  do  not  run  away 
with  the  idea  that  all  this  comes  to  the  Con- 
federate Government.  All  that  comes  to  the 
Confederate  Government  are  simply  the 
duties  from  excise  and  customs  on  goods  im- 
ported from  ioreign  countries. 

ITox.  Mr!.  CAMPBELL  —  Which  is  the 
whole  amount  of  their  revenue,  except 
$31  000. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUBRIE  — Surely  my  hon. 
friend  does  not  wish  to  get  up  and  argue 
that  the  people  of  this  little  island — a  frugal 
and  industrious  people  —  contribute  more  to 
the  revenue  per  head  than  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada?  Well,  let  us  proceed  now  to 
Newfoundland,  and  what  do  we  find  ?  That 
with  a  population  of  122,600  souls  —  less 
than  the  population  of  Huron,  Bruce  and 
Grey — less,  in  fact,  than  the  constituency 
represented  by  my  hon.  friend,  the  member 
for  Saugeen — they  get  $369,000  a  year  for  all 
time,  and  are  relieved  of  a  debt  of  $946,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL~Aud  what  do 
they  contribute  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — Simply  tne  revenue 
from  customs  and  excise,  and  nothing  more. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— And  what  does 
that  amount  to  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — I  am  aware  that — 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— They  will  con- 
tribute, under  the  present  tariff,  $479,000  per 
annum. 


28€ 


Hon.  Mb.  CURRIE— My  hon.  friend 
surely  docs  not  intend  to  say  that  Newfound- 
land has  no  other  source  of  revenue  than 
customs  and  excise  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— No  other ;  and 
that  is  the  rf-ason  why  they  get  6150,000. 

Hon.   Mr.  CURKIE— Newfoundland  is 
to  have  8106,000   a  year,  not  for  this  year 
only,  but  for  all  time  to  come.     She  gets  as 
well  80  cents  per  head  for  all  time  to  come. 
Then  she    gets   also,  what    I    am  sure  the 
Commissioner  of  Crown   Lands  can  hardly 
justify,  that  id  a  boLus   of   S165,000   for 
all  time  to  come  ;  and  this,   if  capilatized, 
amounts    to  83,000,000 — and  all  this  that 
she    may     come     into     the    Confederation. 
And  why  does  she  receive  so  large  a  sum  ? 
My   hon.   friend   tells  us  that  she  gets  it  in 
consideration   of  the  valuable  Crown   lands 
and   minerals   which   she  surrenders  to  the 
General  Government.    But  we  have  yet  to 
learn  as  a  matter  of  fact  that  a  ton   of  coal 
has  ever  been   raised    in   the  island.    And 
what  other  minerals  have  they  ?  We  know  of 
none.  Their  Crown  lands,  too,  are  of  no  value, 
as  is  proved  by  their  not  having  yielded 
anything  at  all  for  many  years  past.     Then 
why   should  we  give  them  83,000,000,  or 
^16.5,000  per  year  for  worthless  lands  ?     I 
will  not  say,  however,  that  they  are  altogether 
worthless  ;   but  I  know  this,  that  for  years 
past  a  statute  has  been  in  force,  giving  the 
lands   free   of  charge  to  anybody  who  will 
go  and  settle  on  them  for  five  years.     And 
these  are   the  valuable   lands  for  which  we 
are  to  pay  an  equivalent  of  §3,000,000.  But 
my  hon.  friend  the  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands,  perhaps,  when  he  addresses  the  House, 
will  tell  us  these  Crown  lands  and  minerals, 
whatever  their  value  to  Newfoundland,  are 
worth  §8,000,000  to  the  Confederation,  and 
will  argue  as  that  they  give  up  these  lands  and 
minerals,  and  have  no  local  source  of  reve- 
nue, it  is  necessary  they  should  receive  this 
subsidy  in  return.    But  why  have  they  no 
local  source  of  revenue  ?  Why  not  adopt  the 
same  lucaus  to  raise  revenue  in  Newfound- 
land that  we  adopt  here  ?  Why  should  we 
he  called  upon  to  contribute  from  the  public 
chest  §165,000  for  a  purpose   that  we   in 
Canada  tax  ourselves  for  ?    Hon.  gentlemen, 
I  stated  that  the  country  was  taken  by  sur- 
prise in  regard  to  the  manner  in  which  this 
measure  was  brought  down   to  the   House  ; 
and  I  think  I  have  good  reason  for  making 
that  statement.  Before  we  came  here  we  had 
very  little  explanation  of  the  financial  part 


of  thescheme  ;  and  that  is  a  most  important 
part.    I    am  not  one  of  those  who,  while  fa- 
vorable to  Confederation  as  a  principle,  Avould 
put  a  few  hundred  thousand  dollars  in  the 
scale  against  it.  But  my  grounds  against  the 
scheme  are  these —  that  if  it  is  commenced 
upon  a  basis  which  is  unjust  to  one  portion 
of  the  community,  it  will  be  based   upon   a 
false    foundation,    and    the    tenement    thus 
proposed  to  be  erected  will   not  withstand 
the   breath   of    public   opinion.     We    had 
reason  to  suppose  that  when  we  came  here 
the  measure  promised  at  the  close  of  the 
last  session  would  be  submitted;  but  instead 
of  that  we   have  a  very  difi'erent  measure 
altogether.     But    supposing    this    Address 
passes  —  suppojing    these    resolutions    are 
carried,    and    the    other    colonies    do    not 
concur  in  the   same   Address  as   ourselves, 
what    is    to   be   the   consequence  ?     As   I 
undortt.ind  it,   the  consent  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces must  be  had,   and   if  they   do   not 
concur,    the    scheme    falls    to    the   ground. 
What  we  ought  to  have  had  in  Canada  was 
the  promised  measure  to  put  aa  end  to  the 
sectional    difficulties    between    Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.    But,  instead  of  that,  we  are 
placed  in  consequence  of  the  Quebec   Con- 
ference in  this  position — a  scheme  is  brought 
down  which  is  declared  to  be  in  the  nature 
of  a  treaty,  and  we  are  told  that  we  are  to 
have  no  voice  in  its  alteration.     No  matter 
what  the  details  my  be — our  discussion  of 
them   is   to   be   a   mere   farce.     Even  the 
reasonable  delay  I  am  now  asking  for  will, 
I  fear,  be  opposed  by   the  Government  of 
the  day.     Hon.  gentlemen,  in  order  to  shew 
the  necessity  which  exists  for  the  measure 
being  equitable  and  just  to  all  classes  cf  the 
people  and  all  sections  of  the  country  about 
to  be  affected  by  it,  I  will  read  the  remarks 
of  a   distinguished  statesman — one   of  the 
ablest  men,  perhaps,  that  Canada  can  claim. 
This  is  his  language  ; — 

No  measure  could  possibly  meet  the  approval 
of  the  people  of  Canada  which  contained  wiihin 
it  the  germs  of  iujustice  to  any,  and  if,  in  the 
measure  which  was  now  before  the  people  of 
Canada,  there  was  anything  which  horo  on  its 
face  injustice,  it  would  operate  greatly  ftg:iin3t  the 
success  of  the  measure  itself. 

These  were  the  views  of  the  Minister  of 
Finance  as  expressed  by  him  only  a  few 
jnonths  ago,  and  it  is  because  1  led  that 
there  are  parts  of  the  scheme  which  will  do 
gross  and  wanton  injustice  to  portions  of 
the  proposed  Confederation,  that  I  feel  it  to 


283 


be  my  duty  to  oppose  it.  It  may  be  said 
that  it  is  not  proper  for  this  branch  of  the 
Legislature  to  delay  the  measure,  but  I 
quite  concur,  on  this  point,  in  the  views  of 
the  hon.  gentleman  who  represents  one  of 
the  largest  and  most  important  constituencies 
in  Canada  (Hon.  Mr.  Macpherson),  when 
he  said  : — 

Although  the  Legislative  Council  is  precluded 
by  this  Constitution  from  originating  money  votes 
or  making  money  appropriations  of  any  kind, 
they  have  it  nevertheless  in  their  power  zealously 
to  guard  your  interests,  protecting  them  against 
hasty  and  ill-considered  legislation,  and  prevent- 
ing improper  and  extravagant  approjiriations  of 
the  public  funds. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERS0N~I  approve 
of  all  that. 

Hon.  Mr.  (JURRIE— I  fully  concur  in 
all  the  hon.  member  from  Saugeen  stated  in 
his  address  to  his  constituents,  with  reference 
to  this  subject,  and  I  hope  the  hon.  gentle- 
man will  now,  when  the  opportunity  is  offered 
him,  act  up  to  the  professions  he  made,  and 
I  feel  confident  he  will  do  so.  Now,  hon. 
gentlemen,  what  have  we  here  before  us  ? 
We  have  a  scheme  which  is  calculated  to  do 
manifest  and  untold  injustice  to  that  section 
of  the  province  which  the  hon.  gentleman 
has  the  honor  to  represent.  "We  have  a 
scheme  pledging  us  to  construct  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway  without  our  knowing  whe- 
ther it  is  to  cost  fifteen,  twenty  or  thirty 
millions  of  dollars.  The  only  estimate  is  that 
alluded  to  by  the  hon.  member  from  Toronto, 
who  stated  that  Mr.  Brydges  was  prepared 
to  build  it  for  seventeen  and  a  half  millions 
of  dollars. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— This  House 
has  nothing  to  do  with  money  matters. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE  — If  my  hon.  friend 
entertains  that  opinion,  he  will  very  soon 
learn  a  very  different  and  important  lesson 
respecting  the  privileges  of  this  House.  It 
is  our  duty  as  honest  legislators  to  protect 
the  country  from  the  baneful  effects  of  hasty 
and  ill-considered  legislation.  Well,  is  not 
this  hasty  legislation  that  is  now  proposed 
to  be  transacted  by  the  Government  of  the 
day  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON. —I  do  not 
regard  it  so,  and  I  tell  you  why.  My  con- 
stituents have  considered  the  question  and 
are  lully  satisfied  that  the  proposed  legisla- 
tion should  take  place. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— It  has  been  said  by 
hon.  gentleT»en  that  the  whole  scheme  con- 


sists of  concessions.^  I  would  ask  what  con- 
cessions have  been  made  to  Canada  ?  What 
concession  has  been  made  to  the  views  of  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada  ?  The  people  will 
understand  why  it  is  that  everything  was 
conceded  on  the  part  of  Canada,  and  compara- 
tively nothing  on  the  part  of  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, when  they  know  that  the  little  colony 
of  Prince  Edward  Island,  with  its  eighty 
thousand  people,  has  as  much  to  say  in  the 
Conference  as  Upper  Canada  with  its  million 
and  a  half,  and  as  Lower  Canada  with  its 
million  and  a  quarter  of  people.  (Hear, 
hear.)  When  we  conceded  to  them  that 
point,  the  series  of  concessions  on  the  part 
of  Canada  began.  Then  we  conceded  to  them 
the  right  of  depriving  us  of  an  elective 
Legislative  Council.  (Hear,  hear.)  Who 
challenges  this  statement  ?  I  defy  any  hon. 
gentlemen  to  say  that  it  was  not  at  the  dic- 
tation of  the  eastern  provinces,  that  the 
character  of  t^^e  Legislative  Council  was 
changed.  In  order  to  settle  this  point,  it  is 
only  necessary  to  refer  hon.  gentlemen  to 
what  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  stated  in 
his  celebrated  Sherbrooke  speech  with  refer- 
ence to  it.  That  was  concession  number 
two.  Then  look  at  the  proposed  Constitution. 
The  Lower  Provinces  had  only  a  population 
of  700,000  people.  One  would  think 
they  would  be  satisfied  with  the  same  repre- 
sentation in  the  Legislative  Council  that 
Upper  Canada  with  double  the  number  of 
people  should  have,  and  that  Lower  Canada 
with  nearly  double  the  population  should 
be  given.  But  instead  of  being  satisfied 
with  24,  they  must  have  28  members.  There 
arc  three  distinct  and  most  important  con- 
cessions on  the  part  of  Canada  to  the  people 
of  the  eastern  provinces.  And  then  we  go 
into  the  Federation  with  a  debt  of  only 
862,500,000,  instead  of  with  $82,500,000 
as  we  were  entitled  to.  Then  we  are  to 
saddle  ourselves  with  a  burden  of  $15,000,- 
000,  and  give  them  a  bonus  for  coming  in, 
in  the  shape  of  an  annual  payment  for  local 
purposes,  which  we  defray  in  Upper  Canada 
by  direct  taxation. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCREA — That  is  because 
they  are  to  help  to  pay  our  debt. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— My  honorable  friend 
from  the  Western  Division  says,  they  have 
to  help  to  pay  our  debt ;  true  they  have  to 
help  to  pay  the  debts  of  the  Confederation, 
but  that  is  no  reason  why  they  should  receive 
money  from  us  to  pay  their  local  expenses. 
Then  look  at  the  absurdity  of  giving  each 


n4, 


province  so  much  per  h^d  on  its  population 
ibr  the  expenses  of  the  local  governments. 
Every  ot>e  knows  that  the  population  of  the 
Lower  Provinces  will  not  increase  nearly  so 
fast  as  that  of  this  province.  We  will  therc- 
loro  have  to  pay  a  greater  proportion  of  this 
amount  through  the  increase  of  our  popula- 
tion than  we  can  receive  under  the  proposed 
arrangement.  This  is  concession  number 
four.  The  next  concession  is  to  New  Bruns- 
wick. We  are  to  give  New  Brunswick  a 
bonus  of  $680,000  in  addition  to  building 
the  Intercolonial  Railway  through  along  sec- 
tion of  the  courjtry — leading  the  people  to 
believe  that  the  road  is  to  pass  through 
nearly  every  town  in  the  province.  Then 
Nova  Scotia  gets  the  right  to  impose  an 
export  duty  on  its  coal  and  other  uiinenils 
coming  into  Upper  Canada,  or  going  else- 
where. Then  Newfoundland,  as  I  have  said 
before,  is  to  have  upward  of  three  millions 
of  dollars,  if  you  capitalize  the  annual  gift,  as 
an  inducement  to  come  in  and  join  us.  Then, 
hon.  gentlemen,  my  hon.  friend  from  Port 
Hope  spoke  of  the  common  schools  of  Canada, 
of  about  one  million  and  a  quarter  of  dollars 
that  is  to  be  abolished  by  a  stroke  o  the 
pen — that  i?  another  concession,  I  suppose, 
made  to  the  people  of  the  eastern  provin- 
Cf'S.  What  do  we  get  for  all  these  conces- 
sions ?  Do  we  get  anything  that  we  are  not 
entitled  to  as  a  matter  of  light.  We  get  17 
additional  members  of  the  Lower  House 
fur  Upper  Canada — bul  that  is  nothing 
more  than  we  are  entitled  tu — at  the 
same  time  that  Ave  get  47  added  from  the 
east.  We  are  told  that  the  leason  for 
having  so  large  a  number  of  members  is  to 
avoid  narrow  majorities.  If  everything 
works  well,  therefore,  under  the  new  consti- 
tution, we  are  told  we  will  always  have  a 
strong  Government,  somewhat  similar  to 
that  with  which  we  are  now  blessed.  Hon. 
gentlemen  sa}^  that  this  question  is  perfectly 
understood  by  the  people  of  Canada,  and 
that  they  arc  satisfied  with  the  arrangement ; 
then  what  danger,  1  would  ask,  can  there 
be  in  allowing  the  people  a  few  months  to 
consider  the  matter  still  more  fully?  In  my 
opinion,  it  is  far  better  to  take  the  thing  up 
deliberately  and  proceed  cautiously  with  it, 
than  to  attempt  to  force  a  measure  upon 
the  people,  so  hurriedly,  that  they  will  feel 
hereafter,  if  tluy  do  not  now,  that  you  arc 
doing  them  a  very  great  injustice  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  most  extraordinary,  tlie  grounds 
on  which  these  resolutions  uro  supported 
by  different  classes  of  people.     Some  hon. 


gentlemen  support  them  on  the  ground  that 
the  Confederation  is  to  build  up  an  inde- 
pendent nationality  in  this  part  of  the 
world.  Others,  on  the  ground  that  it  is 
going  to  cement  us  more  closely  as  colonies. 
And  a  third  party  uphold  the  resolutions  on 
the  ground  that  the  injustice  of  the  thing 
will  disgust  the  people  and  float  our  country 
over  to  the  American  Kepublic.  I  feel  my- 
self that  unless  the  people  have  due  time  to 
consider  the  matter,  and  are  not  driven  into 
it  against  their  will,  these  resolutions  will 
amount  to  nothing  more  than  so  many 
withes  to  tie  the  provinces  together  until  we 
all  drift  like  a  raft  into  the  American  Con- 
federation.    (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— Honorable  gentle- 
men,— Every  honorable  member  of  this  House 
must  be  aware  of  the  difficulties  which  an  in- 
dividual member  has  to  encounter  in  rising  to 
address  the  House  at  this  late  period  of  the 
debate,  when  the  subject,  after  a  fortnight's 
discussion,  is  almost  exhausted.  I  have,  how- 
ever, refrained  from  offering  any  observations 
at  an  earlier  stage,  in  consecjuencc  of  a  desire 
to  confine  my  remarks  more  particularly  to  the 
principle  embodied  in  the  amendment  of  my 
honorable  and  learned  friend  from  the  Niagara 
Division.  I  shall  now  briefly  refer  to  the  in- 
troductory remarks  of  the  honorable  and  gal- 
lant Knight  at  the  head  of  the  present  (gov- 
ernment, when  he  submitted  the  matter  for  the 
consideration  of  this  honorable  House.  That 
honorable  gentleman  told  us  th  at  the  unsatis- 
factory state  of  things  which  had  existed  in 
the  politics  of  this  country  for  the  twenty-five 
months  prior  to  the  Tach^-Macdonald  Ad- 
ministration, rendered  it  necessary  that  some 
great  political  exertion  should  be  made  t<.^ 
remedy  those  difficulties.  Well,  gentlemen,, 
what  were  those  difficulties  ?  Why,  it  was 
that  five  different  administrations  had  been 
formed,  and  five  difierent  administrations  had 
been  unable  to  carry  on  the  administration  of 
public  affairs,  and  had  either  resigned  or 
become  so  weak,  in  conse(picncc  of  their  small 
miijority  iu  the  popular  branch,  that  they 
could  not  conduct  the  Government  in  a  satis- 
factory manner.  The  Tach6-Maci)0NAU) 
Government  had  arrived  at  the  same  state 
as  the  five  preceding  administrations,  and 
finding  themselves  in  this  political  dilemma, 
were  again  about  appealing  to  the  country, 
when  a  "still,  small  voice  "  was  heard  in  the 
distance;  and  what  was  that  ''  still,  small 
voice,"  and  where  did  it  com  >  from?  It  was 
the  voice  of  a  grcit  man,  and  came  from  an 
'  individual   who  solicited  an    opportunity  of 


285 


pouring  oil  on  the  troubled  political  waters, 
(Hear,  hear.)  Permission  was  granted,  the 
oil  poured  on  ;  the  efifect  was  miraculous — 
the  commotion  ceased,  and  a  calm  succeeded — 
a  circumstance  which  caused  no  surprise  when 
it  was  discovered,  as  it  speedily  was,  that  the 
magical  oil  came  fresh  from  the  wells  of  Both- 
well.  (Great  laughter.)  The  Government, 
as  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight  told  us, 
received  a  communication  from  the  "real  chief" 
of  the  Opposition.  And  there  is  no  doubt  but 
that  he  was  the  real  chief  of  the  Opposition, 
and  by  his  apostacy — this  individual  from 
whom  the  still,  small  voice  came — is  the  real 
chief  of  the  Government  party.  (Laughter.) 
Well,  he  was  desirous  of  making  overtures, 
and  he  did,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  make  over- 
tures, with  the  view,  as  the  honorable  and 
gallant  Knight  has  told  us,  of  sinking  all 
previous  differences.  We  are  told  he  went 
into  the  Government  for  the  purpose  of 
settling  this  one  question  of  a  new  political 
existence,  and  we  are  therefore  justified  in 
inferring  that  he  is  either  going  out  of  the 
Government  again  at  an  early  day,  or  else  is 
going  up  to  a  higher  position.  AYell,  gentle- 
men, what  difficulties  have  been  settled  ? 
None  as  yet,  but  the  scheme  now  before 
the  House  was  to  be  a  panacea  for  all  the  dit- 
ficulties  and  dissensions  that  have  afflicted  the 
country  for  the  past  five  and  twenty  years. 
From  whom  does  this  panacea  emanate  ?  Why, 
from  the  very  individual  who  has  been  more 
instrumental  than  any  other  man  in  creating 
those  difficultie?.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honor- 
able gentleman  at  one  time  stated  that  he  was 
a  governmental  impossibility,  but  it  does  not 
appear  that  he  has  been  so  in  realitj'.  After 
the  oil  was  thrown  on  the  troubled  waters, 
then  came  the  period  for  making  some  little 
delicate  arrangements  between  the  Govern- 
ment and  the  gentleman  possessing  the  still 


small  voice, 
ran^ements  ? 


Well,  what  were  the  little  ar- 


insisted  on  being  an  outsider. 


Why,  the  honorable  gentleman 
He  would  not 
go  into  the  Government  under  any  circum- 
stances whatever.  (Hear,  hear.)  No,  no,  he 
would  not.  (Laughter.)  Well,  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Government  said  :  "  But  we  must 
liave  you  among  us ;  we  are  too  well  aware  of 
the  power  you  can  bring  us,  to  consent  to  your 
remaining  on  the  outside."  Well  now,  it  is 
astonishing  the  s.jcrifices  public  men  will 
sometimes  consent  to  make.  (Laughter.)  It 
is  really  surprising,  gentlemen,  what  sacrifices 
they  do  feel  called  upon  to  make  for  the  good 
of  their  country.  (Laughter.)  And  here  we 
have  a  very  notable  example  of  it.    We  have 


an  instance  of  how«mch  can  be  sacrificed  at 
the  shrine  of  patriotism  for  the  salvation  of 
one's  country.  (Laughter.  Towards  the  last 
of  the  delicate  arrangements  before  alluded  to, 
he  thought  he  would  go  in — this  still,  small 
voice  gentleman.  (Laughter.)  Well,  this 
being  determined  upon,  he  thought  it  would 
be  necessary  to  go  in  upon  some  principle,  but 
that  was  a  most  difficult  operation.  What 
principle  could  be  found  applicable  to  the 
case  ?  (Laughter.)  Some  inventive  genius 
suggested  that  he  might  go  in  on  the  homoeo- 
pathic principle.  Well,  he  finally  went  in  on 
that  principle,  and  took  with  him  an  infini- 
tessimally  small  dose  of  Grits.  (Renewed 
laughter.)  And  the  result  of  bis  going  in 
on  that  principle  is  that  we  have  now  a  Gov- 
ernment composed  of  three  Clear  Grits  and 
nine  Conservatives.  The  honorable  gentle- 
man, to  whom  I  have  alluded,  went  to  the 
country  and  got  returned  to  his  seat  in  the 
House  and  Government.  My  honorable  friend 
from  Toronto  says  he  got  returned  by  acclam- 
ation. Well,  when  we  look  at  the  individual 
and  consider  that  he  has  been  for  years  the 
leading  spirit  and  guiding  gcuius  of  a  large 
political  party,  made  up  of  a  majority  of  the 
representatives  of  Upper  Canada,  and  look  at 
the  acknowledged  intellect  of  the  man,  and 
take  into  account  the  influence  of  the  pen 
which  he  has  the  opportunity  of  wielding  so 
powerfully — when  we  take  all  these  things 
into  consideration,  it  is  not  at  all  surprising 
that  he  should  be  returned  by  acclamation. 
(Hear,  hear.)  He  came  back  from  the  coun- 
try and  has  since  taken  part  in  the  Gov- 
ernment ;  and  here  I  wish  to  make  a  few 
observations  with  reference  to  the  Govern- 
ment as  it  stands  to-day.  You  must  re- 
collect, honorable  gentlemen,  that  we  are  en- 
joying, or  at  least  have  enjoyed,  a  system  of 
government  in  this  country  which  has  a  great 
many  admirers,  and  which  some  honorable 
gentlemen  admire  a  great  deal  more  than  the 
quality  of  the  people.  The  system  is  known 
by  the  name  of  Responsible  Government.  If 
I  understand  the  subject  properly,  that  system 
of  government  is  defined  in  this  way — that 
the  Govei-nment  of  the  country  must  be  car- 
ried on  according  to  the  well-understood  wishes 
of  the  people,  as  expressed  through  their  re- 
presentatives on  the  floor  of  the  House  of  As- 
sembly. (Hear,  hear.)  Well  now,  I  take 
exception  to  the  formation  of  the  present 
Government,  on  the  ground  that  it  was  not 
established  on  that  principle,  because  they  are 
not  a  government  emanating  from  the  people. 
I  cannot  hold  them  in  the  same  respect  that  I 


286 


did  before  the  three  Consei-vative  members 
from  Upper  Canada,  who  retired  in  favor  of 
the  three  Grit  members,  left  it.  The  Gov- 
ernment then  all  belonged  to  one  political 
p'irty,  were  all  consistent  members  of  that 
party,  and  taken  together,  were  equal  in  talent 
to  any  Administration  that  has  ever  had  charge 
of  the  affairs  of  this  or  any  other  province. 
All  holding  the  same  views  on  leading  politi- 
cal questions,  even  those  who  opposed  them 
coula  not  but  feel  a  very  large  degree  of  res- 
pect for  them  as  sincere,  honest,  consistent 
Conservatives,  and  as  I  believe,  entertaining 
sound  political  principles.  But  the  introduc- 
tion of  the  three  other  members  altered  the 
whole  face  of  the  Government.  And  the  first 
thing  this  unholy  alliance  does  is  to  go  to  work 
at  the  suggestion  of  the  chief  with  the  still, 
small  voice  to  upset  our  Constitution.  (Hear, 
hear.)  When  a  great  constitutional  question 
comes  before  this  House,  designed  as  it  is  to 
sweep  an  entire  constitution  from  our  Statute 
Book,  and  replace  it  with  another,  I  think  you 
will  agree  with  me,  honorable  gentlemen,  that 
this  is  one  of  the  most  important  measures 
that  could  come  from  any  government  on  the 
face  of  the  earth.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  1 
would  ask  those  people  who  are  so  anxious  to 
see  responsible  government  carried  out  in 
this  country  in  its  integrity,  is  this  a  govern- 
ment that  you  can  recognize  as  representing 
the  well-understood  wishes  of  the  people  ?  A 
government  claiming  to  be  a  responsible 
government  ought  to  have  for  its  basis  re- 
turns made  from  the  polls,  and  ought  not  to 
have  its  origin  through  the  instrumentality 
of  ministerial  convenience.  THear,  hear.)  I 
would  like  to  ask  if,  at  the  last  general  elec- 
tion, this  subject  was  mooted  to  the  people  in 
any  section  of  the  province  ? — whether  it  was 
a  subject  to  which  the  slightest  reference  was 
ever  made  by  the  votes  of  the  people  when  they 
returned  their  representatives  ?  I  do  not 
think  that  it  could  have  been,  because  it  is 
a  measure  that  has  emanated  from  the  particu- 
lar individual  to  whom  I  have  referred,  since 
the  Tach^-Macdonald  Government  got  into 
that  unfortunate  political  dilemma.  The 
people  were  not  aware  at  the  last  general 
election  that  any  such  measure  as  this  was  to 
come  before  the  Legislature.  Honorable 
gentlemen,  I  would  not  stand  up  here  and 
speak  in  this  manner  if  the  subject  brought 
under  our  consideration  was  any  ordinary 
measure  wliich  could  bo  passed  this  session 
and  repealed  at  the  next,  if  found  unsatisfac- 
tory. But  these  resolutions,  if  adopted  by  all 
the  legislatures,  will  become  embodied  in  an 


Imperial  Act,  and  the  people  of  Canada  will 
find  some  difficulty  in  having  any  change  made 
in  respect  to  them.  The  power  that  creates 
Confederation,  by  passing  the  act  for  that 
purpose,  will  be  the  only  power  by  which  any 
change  can  be  effected  in  that  act.  There- 
fore, after  passing  these  resolutions,  it  will  be 
out  of  our  power  to  alter  them  in  the  least 
degree.  This,  honorible  gentlemen,  is  one  of 
the  reasons  why  I  have  refrained  from  ad- 
dressing the  House  until  the  resolution  which 
has  just  been  proposed  by  my  honorable  friend 
from  the  Niagara  Division  should  be  brought 
forward.  I  would  take  this  opportunity  of 
saying  that  I  do  not  think  the  observation 
made  by  an  honorable  gentleman,  to  the  effect 
that  it  would  be  in  bad  taste  for  this  House 
to  suggest  a  dissolution  of  the  other  branch  of 
the  Legislature,  should  have  any  influence  in 
disposing  of  the  amendment  now  before  us. 
Why,  honorable  gentlemen,  there  is  nothing 
of  the  kind  in  the  amendment.  We  argue 
for  delay,  and  we  are  perfectly  willing  you 
should  delay  the  measure  until  after  the  next 
general  election.  But,  if  the  Government 
think  that  delay  will  be  so  dangerous  to  the 
measure,  there  is  a  constitutional  remedy  open 
to  them,  which,  of  course,  it  would  not  be 
proper  for  me  to  refer  to  in  a  more  pointed 
manner.  I  do  not  argue  for  a  week  or  a 
month's  delay.  I  think  there  ought  to  be  a 
much  longer  time  allowed.  I  think  the  ques- 
tion ought  to  be  submittted  to  the  people  of 
this  country  for  their  approval.  I  do  not 
want  the  thing  to  be  gone  about  in  a  peddling 
kind  of  style,  one  honorable  gentleman  running 
here  and  another  there,  and  endeavoring  in 
tliat  way  to  learn  the  views  of  his  constituents. 
If  we  cannot  have  the  usual  constitutional 
mode  of  arriving  at  the  true  views,  opinions, 
and  impressions  of  the  people  in  relation  to 
the  scheme,  I  do  not  want  any  delay  at  all. 
I  do  not  want  the  opinion  of  the  people  taken, 
unless  it  can  be  done  in  such  a  manner  as  will 
give  us  something  upon  which  we  can  depend. 
If  an  honorable  gentleman  consults  tiie  electors 
in  one  portion  of  his  constituency  and  they  are 
opposed  to  the  scheme,  while  those  of  another 
section  of  the  same  constituency  are  in  favor 
of  it,  he  is  no  better  off  than  when  he  began. 
Nor  do  I  believe  in  taking  a  vote  of  the  con- 
stituencies, "yea  or  nay,"  on  the  measure, 
in  the  manner  in  which  the  people  have  to 
vote  with  reference  to  stopping  the  supply  of 
intoxicating  drink  under  the  Temperance  Act. 
(Laughtor.)  I  go  lor  the  whole  British  con- 
stitutional mode,  or  nothing.  I  have  no  idea 
of  wishing  to  see  honorable  gentlemen  going 


o 


9.r*n 


round  among  their  constituents,  knockinp;  at 
every  door,  and  asking:  Do  you  go  Confed- 
eration ?     (Laughter.)     I  would  as  soon  see 
them  going  around  peddling  wooden  clocks. 
(Renewed  laughter.)     I  say,  honorable  gen- 
tlemen, that  the  whole  scheme  has  emanated 
from  the  fertile  and  imaginative  brain  of  one 
individual.      That  individual  suggested  the 
scheme  to  the  Government ;  the  Government 
took  that  individual  in   amongst  them ;    he 
proposed  this  arbitrary  mode  of  carrying  the 
scheme    through   with   the   assistance   of    a 
imited  following — and  it  is  going  to  be  done. 
The  whole  thing,  I  say  again,  proceeds  from 
that  individual,  who  has  '.sown  to  the  storm 
and  reaped  the  whirlwind  long  enough,  and 
does  not  intend  to  reap  it  any  longer  if  he 
can  help  it.     But  my  opinion  is  that  he  is, 
perhaps,  unwittingly  sowing  a  greater  storm 
than  ever,  and  that  a  whirlwind  will  ensue  of 
a  most  fearful  character.     It  is  just  possible, 
however,  that  it  will  be  found  the  most  ad- 
vantageous measure  for  the  country  that  has 
ever  been  introduced  to  the  Legislature,  and 
if  so,  the  honorable  member  for   South   Ox- 
ford is  entitled  to  the  whole  credit  of  sug- 
gesting it,  and  taking  the  initiatory  steps,  with- 
out which  it  could  never  have  been  brought 
about ;  while  on  the  other  hand,  if  it  should 
prove    the    most  disastrous  to    the   country 
that  has  ever  been  mooted,  as  I  fear  will  be 
the  case,  unless  submitted  to  the  people  in 
the  constitutional  way,  that  honorable  gen- 
tleman will  be  entitled  to,  and  will  receive, 
the  most  bitter  condemnation.     (Hear,  hear.) 
Well,  I  now  come  to  the  position  which  the 
measure  now  occupies  before  the  House,  and 
the  relation  in  which  I  stand  to  this  House 
in  dealing  with  it.      When  the  proposition 
was  made  to  change  the  character  of  the  con- 
stitution of  this  House,  I  did  everything  in 
my  power  to  prevent  its  becoming  law ;  but 
all  my  efforts,  with  those  of  a  number  of  hon- 
orable colleagues,  were  of  no  avail.  And  those 
gentlemen  who,  on  that  occasion,  agreed  with 
me  that  it  was  a  most  unwise  step  to  alter  the 
Constitution  in  that  respect,  when  they  and  I 
found  we  could  do  no  more,  we  filed  a  protest 
against  it,  because — 

First, — The  Act  of  Union  conferred  upon  the 
people  of  Canada  a  Constitution  as  nearly  similar 
to  that  under  which  Great  Britain  has  attained 
her  place  among  nations,  as  their  colonial  position 
would  admit ;  and  the  Legislative  Council,  an 
integral  part  of  that  Constitution,  was  early  es- 
tablished on  its  present  basis  as  a  check  equally 
upon  the  hasty  action  of  the  popular  branch,  as 
upon  the  undue  influence  of  the  Crown,    Second- 


ly— Because  the  introduction  of  the  elective 
principle  into  the  Constitution  of  the  Upper 
Chamber  gives  an  undue  preponderance  to  the 
popular  element ;  diminishes  the  proper  influence 
of  the  Crown,  and  destroys  the  balance  that  baa 
acted  as  a  proper  check  upon  both  since  repre- 
sentative institutions  were  given  to  the  colony. 
Thirdly, — Because  the  measure  now  proposed 
tends  to  the  destruction  of  executive  responsi- 
bility; the  adoption  of  a  written  Constitution; 
the  election  of  the  highest  officer  of  the  Crown, 
and  the  separation  of  Canada  from  the  parent 
state.— Signed,  P.  B.  DeBlaquiere,  John  Ham- 
ilton, George  J.  Goodhue,  Wm.  "Widmer,  Jas. 
Gordon,  J.  Ferrier,  R.  Mathiesox,  G.  S.  Boul- 
TON,  Walter  H.  Dickson. 

Well,  honorable  gentlemen,  the  change  took 
place  in  spite  of  all  we  could  do.  I  condemned 
the  proposed  change  on  that  occasion  from 
my  own  personal  views  respecting  it,  for  I 
had    no    constituency,    as    some    honorable 
gentlemen  now  have,  to  --consult,  and  I  now 
take  exception  in   the  same  manner  to  the 
scheme  before  the  House.      I  do  not  take 
such  strong  exception  to  the  details  of  the 
measure  as  some  honorable  gentlemen  do,  be- 
cause when  I  reflect  upon  the  number  of  indi- 
viduals that  took  part  in  the  Conference,  and 
the  ability  possessed  by  those  individuals,  I 
would  not,  as  a  matter  of  course,  have  the 
temerity  to  rise  in  my  place  and  proceed  to 
point  out  an  error  here   and   another  error 
there,  even  if  they  seemed  to  me  to  be  errors, 
as  some  of  them  do  seem,  unless  I  felt  satis- 
fied not  only  that  I  possessed  sounder  judg- 
ment than  they,  but  also  that  I  was  better 
acquainted  with  all  the  circumstances  having 
a  direct  as  well  as  indirect  bearing  upon  the 
question.     But,  honorable  gentlemen,  let  me 
ask  who  is  going  to  be  chiefly  affected  by 
those  changes  ?     Why,  the  people  of  Canada. 
And  therefore  it  is  that  I  ask,  and  all  I  ask 
is  what  appears  to  me  to  be  only  what   is 
reasonable,  as  applied  to  the  every  day  trans- 
actions of  life,  and  that  is,  that  those  who  are 
going  to  be  affected  should  have  some  voice, 
at  least,  in  these  proceedings.     (Hear,  hear.) 
This  appears  to  me  to  be  a  sound  mode  of 
viewing  the  question ;  and  claiming  to  myself 
the  right  of  exercising  my  own  personal  judg- 
ment, with  the  limited  means   of  doing  so 
which  the  Almighty  has  thought  proper  to 
place  me  in  possession  of,  I  feel  it  my  duty  to 
stand  up  in  this  House  and  record  my  views 
and  my  vote  in  such  a  manner  as  that,  while 
I  live,  I  may  look  back  with  some  degree  of 
satisfaction  upon  the  view  that  I  took  and 
advocated  upon  the  floor  of  this  House. — 
(Hear,  hear.)   I  do  not  think  some  honorable 
gentlemen  who   have   stood  up  and  ai-gued 


288 


against  continuing  tte  elective   principle   in 
this  House,  can  have  done  so  with  as  much 
satisfaction  to  themselves  as  if  they  had  not, 
on  a  previous  occasion,  pursued  a  difiFereut 
course.     I  well  recollect  that  when  I  found  it 
was  the  determination  to  introduce  the  elect- 
ive principle  in  relation  to  the  membership  of 
this  House,  I  said — Gentlemen,  if  the  princi- 
ple is  good  in  one  case,  it  is  good  in  another  ; 
let  us  make  the  Speaker  elective.     No,  no, 
they  said,  that  will  not  do  ;  that  is  republi- 
canism.    They  would  not  have  the  Speaker 
made  elective.     You  know  there  was  a  little 
patronage  at  disposal  by  keeping  the  appoint- 
ment of  the  Speaker  in  the  G-overnment.     At 
that  time  I  could  make  no  progi-ess  in  getting 
the  House  to  go  for  making  the  Speaker  elect- 
ive.    Since   then,   however,   they   made   the 
Speaker   elective,  and   therefore   the   House 
must  admit  that  I  was  right  on  that  occasion. 
I  opposed  the  House  being  made  elective,  but 
honorable  gentlemen   made   it   elective,  and 
now  they  are  going  to  reinvest  the  appoint- 
ments in  the  Crown.    So  it  is  clear  that  when 
the  first  change  was  made  I  was  also  right  on 
that  occasion.     (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
When  the  proposal  was  made  to  grant  three 
millions  of  money  to  the  Grand  Trunk,  I  saw 
it  was  being  done  for  political  support,  and  I 
therefore   opposed  it.      I   also   opposed   the 
grants  to  the  Arthabaska,  and  Port  Hope  and 
Peterborough  railways,  because  I  considered 
them  only  convenient  methods  of  acquiring 
parliamentary  support  on  the  pretence  of  get- 
ting  money   for   the    Grand    Trunk    proper. 
Those  roads  were  termed  "  feeders  "  for  the 
Grand  Trunk,  but  I  called  them  Grand  Trunk 
"suckers."     (Laughter.)     I  take  to  myself 
fome  little  credit  for  having  taken  this  view 
of  those  questions.     I   am  willing  to  admit 
that  the  Grand  Trunk  is  a  very  great  benefit 
to  the  province  in  a  material  point  of  view, 
but  I  do  believe  that  we  paid  very  dearly  for 
the  whistle.     (Laughter.)      Having  paid  so 
dearly  ibr  that  road,   running,   as  it   does, 
through  tiie  very  finest  portion  of  the  coun- 
try, I  am  disposed  to  be  very  cautious  about 
entering  upon  the  construction  of  this  Inter- 
colonial Railway.  (Hear,  hear.)    I  have  often 
availed  myself  of  a  leaf  out  of  the  book  of  my 
honorable  friend  (Hon.  Mr.  Koss)  and  I  like 
to  stick  pretty  close  by  him,  because  if  I  get 
6tf  the  track  he  has  the  happy  faculty  of  put- 
ting me  on  again.     Now,  I  would  like  to  ask 
him  whether  or  not,  in  the  remarks  he  made 
this  afternoon,  he  stated  that  there  had  been 
no  demand  on  the  part  of  the  people  for  an 
elective  Legislative  Council  since  the  union. 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— What  I  said  was,  that 
there  had  been  no  general  demand  for  the 
change  on  the  part  of  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada.  I  am  well  aware  that  there  was 
agitation  on  the  subject  in  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— Well,  I  find  here 
in  the  Journals  of  the  Legislative  Assemhly  for 
1855,  that  on  the  21st  of  May,  when  the 
second  reading  of  the  Bill  to  make  this  House 
elective  was  defeated,  the  following  was  en- 
tered on  the  Journals  by  eight  honorable 
members,  in  the  shape  of  reasons  for  their 
dissent  from  the  vote,  via. : — 

Dissentient — Because  public  opinion  has  long 
and  repeatedly  been  expressed  on  the  necessity  of 
rendering  this  branch  of  the  Legislature  elective  ; 
because  the  almost  unanimous  vote  of  the  Legis- 
lative Assembly,  irrespective  of  party,  has,  in  the 
most  unequivocal  manner,  ratified  the  opinion  of 
the  people  as  hereinbefore  expressed ;  because 
the  opposition  of  this  House  to  the  universal 
desire  of  the  inhabitants  of  Canada,  unsustained 
either  by  a  party  in  the  other  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lature or  out  of  it,  is  unprecedented,  and  of  a 
nature  to  cause  the  most  lerious  apprehensions. 

The  first  name,  honorable  gentlemen,  signed 
to  that  protest  is  the  Honorable  John  Ross, 
and  the  second  is  my  honorable  and  gallant 
friend.  Sir  E.  P.  TACnfi.  Then  there  are  the 
Honorable  Messrs.  Panet,  Belleau,  Arm- 
strong, Perry,  LEOARfe,  and  Cartier! 
Well,  lean  now  exonerate  all  those  gentlemen, 
after  observing,  as  I  have  done,  how  well  the 
elective  principle  has  worked  in  its  application 
to  this  House.  But  I  cannot  understund  how 
honorable  gentlemen  could  have  entertained 
the  view  that  great  disaster  would  be  the 
result  of  refusing  to  grant  the  elective  princi- 
ple, and  then  inside  of  ten  years,  when  their 
ideas  had  been  put  into  practical  efi'ect,  and 
had  worked  so  admirably,  they  could  again 
rise  in  this  House  and  advocate  a  return  to 
the  system  which  then  was  so  bad,  and  which 
the  people  were  so  determined  to  have  altered. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — I  was  then  a  member 
of  the  Government,  and  spoke  their  scutimeuts. 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— Well  then,  honor- 
able gentlemen,  it  seems  I  am  to  understand 
that  the  honorable  gentleman  did  not  then  ex- 
press the  sentiments  of  Hon.  Mr.  Ross  as  an 
individual,  but  of  Hon.  Mr.  Ross  as  a  member 
of  the  Government.  I  have  never  been  in  the 
Government,  and  therefore,  perhaps,  I  am 
pardonable  for  not  having  understood  that  the 
gentleman  carried  about  with  him  a  double  set 
of  sentiments,  either  of  which  could  be  used 
as  occasion  seemed  to  demand.  (Laughter.) 
But,  in  furtherance  of  the  argument  for  delay. 


289 


I  desire  to  say  that  I  am  anxious  to  have  the 
further  consideration  of  the  scheme  in  this 
House  postponed  for  other  reasons  than  those 
which  I  have  given  expression  to.  My  honor- 
able friend  the  gallant  Knight,  in  his  remarks 
last  evening,  made  allusion  to  the  burning  of 
the  Parliament  buildings.  I  agree  with  him 
that  that  was  a  thing  sincerely  to  be  regretted. 
But  he  stated  that,  if  the  conservatives  in  the 
Legislative  Council  had  had  the  prudence  and 
good  sense  to  exercise  the  amount  of  wisdom 
that  they  might  have  exercised,  they  would 
have  put  off  the  Rebellion  Losses  Bill  another 
year,  which  course  of  proceeding  would,  in  all 
probability,  have  prevented  the  deplorable 
occurrence  to  which  he  referred.  Now,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  I  stand  here  to  ask  you  to 
take  the  advice  the  honorable  and  gallant 
Knight  has  given,  and  apply  it  to  the  present 
scheme.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  You 
do  not  know  what  disastrous  consequences 
may  ensue,  if  this  huge  scheme  is  carried  out 
without  an  appeal  to  the  people  in  a  constitu- 
tional manner.  I  do  sincerely  hope  you  will 
allow  that  powerful  argument  for  delay  ad- 
duced by  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight  to 
bear  upon  this  question.  (Hear,  hear.)  This 
is  a  revolution,  gentlemen,  not  a  mere  payment 
of  a  few  thousand  pounds,  that  is  proposed. 
A  revolution  may  be  carried  out  by  the  exer- 
cise of  political  power,  as  well  as  by  physical 
force.  If  the  Government  of  the  country  is 
subverted,  it  makes  no  difference  how  it  is 
done.  It  is  a  revolution  all  the  same,  no  mat- 
ter how  it  is  brought  about.  The  effect  is  the 
same  upon  the  country.  The  proposal  is  to 
sweep  our  present  Constitution  away,  and  sup- 
ply its  place  with  another,  which  may  be  better 
or  a  great  deal  worse.  As  I  see  by  the  clock 
I  have  only  five  minutes  left  before  six,  and 
do  not  desire  to  speak  at  any  greater  length,  I 
will  have  to  draw  my  remarks  to  a  close. 
(Cries  of  "go  on,"  "go  on.")  Well,  as  honor- 
able gentlemen  seem  to  desire  it,  I  will  make 
a  few  further  remarks  after  dinner. 

A  message  was  here  received  from  the  As- 
sembly, after  which  the  House  took  a  recess 
until  8  P.M.  That  hour  having  arrived,  and 
the  House  having  re-assembled — 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON  said— The  great 
reason  for  delay  I  conceive  to  be  that  it  is 
proposed  by  the  adoption  of  the  resolutions  of 
the  Government  to  wipe  out  the  present  Con- 
stitution of  the  country  without  consulting  the 
people  affected  thereby.  I  have  not  yet  heard 
one  single  observation  from  t.iC  Government, 
or  from  any  honorable  member  of  this  House, 
tending  to  show  that  there  is  any  necessity  for 
38 


the  unseemly  haste  with  which  the  matter  is 
being  pressed.  I  think  it  ought  to  be  laid 
over  until  after  the  next  general  election  ;  and 
I  beg  honorable  gentlemen  to  observe  that  I 
make  no  suggestion  respecting  a  dissolution  of 
the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature.  But  if 
there  is  really  any  necessity  for  haste,  then 
there  is  a  constitutional  mode  of  hastening  an 
appeal  open  to  the  Government.  My  honor- 
able friend  opposite  argued  that  the  prero- 
gative of  the  Crown  was  taken  away,  in  refer- 
ence to  the  appointment  of  members  of  this 
House,  without  an  appeal  to  the  people,  and 
that  therefore  no  harm  could  result  fiom 
taking  away  the  boon  then  given  them  without 
any  demand  on  their  part  or  any  appeal  to 
them.  Gentlemen,  we  were  then  experimen- 
talists, and  the  experiment  succeeded  well. 
Then  why  not  stick  to  it  ?  We  improved  on 
the  Constitution  on  that  occasion.  And  you 
may  give  the  people  privileges  they  do  not  ask, 
very  safely.  But  what  is  now  proposed  to  be 
done  ?  It  is  proposed  to  take  that  power  from 
them  without  consulting  them,  and  I  hold  that 
such  a  thinii;  ought  not  to  be  done.  Having 
raised  them  to  the  highest  state  of  political 
exaltation,  without  their  even  asking  for  it, 
it  is  now  proposed  to  reduce  them,  almost 
without  notice,  to  the  lowest  possible  position 
of  political  degradation.  It  is  the  main  prin- 
ciple of  the  Government  under  which  we  live, 
that  the  people,  through  their  representatives, 
shall  be  consulted  as  to  the  composition  of 
their  Government.  As  for  a  mutual  under- 
standing between  the  electors  and  the  elected, 
in  relation  to  this  scheme,  there  is  none  what- 
ever, and  I  have  thus  urged  delay  because  I 
do  not  think  there  is  any  need  of  hurry. 
There  is  a  constitutional  mode  of  ascertaining 
the  views  of  the  people,  and  it  ought  to  be 
made  use  of.  But  honorable  gentlemen  say, 
"  Oh,  don't  throw  out  any  hint  about  bringing 
on  a  general  election  before  the  proper  period  ; 
we  have  had  elections  enough  during  the 
past  five  years."  Why,  honorable  gentlemen, 
what  is  proposed  to  be  done  ;y  the  p  issing  of 
these  resolutions?  Will  their  adoption  not 
bring  on  a  new  election  inside  of  eighteen 
months?  There  is  another  observation  I 
desire  to  make  with  reference  to  honorable 
gentlemen  endeavoring  to  obtain  the  views  of 
their  constituents  by  knocking  at  their  doors, 
and  asking  whether  they  favor  the  first  reso- 
lution and  the  second,  and  so  on,  through  the 
entire  list.  I  do  not  think  that  even  by  such 
a  proceeding  you  could  arrive  at  a  thorough 
understandi'ng  of  the  views  of  your  constitu- 
ents.    The  common  way  of  doing  it  is  for  a 


290 


member  to  call  his  constituents  together  in  a 
large  room  in  some  hotel  or  other  building, 
and  lay  the  whole  subject  before  them,  express- 
ing his  opinion  on  the  various  clauses  as  he 
proceeds.  In  so  doing  he  is  more  than  apt  to 
imbue  their  minds  with  the  same  view  that  he 
himself  holds.  I  have  only  heard  one  member 
allude  to  having  received  the  resolutions,  and 
he  merely  opened  and  sealed  them  up  acjain  in 
consequence  of  their  being  marked  "  Private," 
without  endeavoring  to  ascertain  the  views  of 
his  constituents.  I  do  hope  that  some  course 
of  procedure  can  be  devised  by  which  the  spirit 
of  the  amendment  proposed  by  my  honorable 
friend  from  the  Niagara  Division  may  be 
carried  into  effect.  The  amendment  simply 
states — 

That  upon  a  matter  of  such  great  importance 
as  the  proposed  Confederalion  of  this  and  certi-in 
other  British  Colonies,  this  House  is  unwilling  to 
assume  the  responsibility  of  assenting  to  a 
measure  involving  so  many  important  considera- 
tions, without  a  further  manit'esiatiou  of  the  public 
will  than  has  yet  been  declared. 

Well,  honorable  gentlemen,  is  this  House 
willing  to  assume  the  responsibility  of  de- 
priving the  people  of  the  opportunity  of  ex- 
pressing their  wishes  on  so  momentous  a 
question  as  an  entire  change  of  their  Constitu- 
tion. Those  who  are  willing  to  take  the  res- 
ponsibility will  vote  against  this  amendment, 
while  those  who  are  willing  to  have  the  matter 
referred  to  the  people,  will  vote  for  it.  My 
sentiments  are  well  expressed  in  the  amend- 
ment, and  exercising  my  own  individual  judg- 
ment, having  no  constituency  to  be  governed 
by,  I  shall  vote  for  it,  and  if  it  is  defeated  it 
will  strengthen  the  hands  of  the  Government 
in  carrying  out  their  great  principle  of  Con- 
federation without  an  appeal  to  the  people 
— and,  as  a  matter  of  course,  according  to  our 
present  system  of  responsible  government, 
they  must  assume  the  responsibility. 

Hon,  Mr.  CAMPBKLL  said— I  would 
like,  honorable  gentlemen,  to  continue  tlie 
debate  in  that  excellent  and  happy  spirit  in 
which  my  honorable  friend  who  lias  just  sat 
down  has  addressed  the  House.  1  envy  my 
honorable  friend  very  much  lor  the  possession 
of  that  happy  faculty  of  amusing  and  instruct- 
ing the  House  in  combination.  I  am  some- 
what grieved  to  feel  obliged  to  call  the  atten- 
tion of  honorable  members  to  that  which  is, 
perhaps,  more  of  a  business  character  and  less 
iuterestiug  than  the  remarks  wh.eli  li.ll  from 
my  honorable  friend.  1  must  say  that  1  very 
much  regret  that  my  honorable  friend  should 
have  thought  that  ou  this  particular  amendment 


being  proposed,  it  was  his  duty  to  come  to 
its  support,  because  it  is  evident  to  my  own 
mind,  and  must  also  be  so  to  every  honorable 
member  present,  that  my  honorable  friend, 
while  giving  his  support  to  the  amendment, 
entertains  very  different  views  from  those 
which  were  enunciated  by  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Niagara,  who  moved  it.  My  honor- 
able friend  says,  "  If  there  is  to  be  delay,  let  it 
be  a  substantial  delay  ;  let  it  be  such  a  delay 
as  will  ensure  a  dissolution  of  parliament ; 
such  a  delay  as  will  enable  the  people  to  speak 
in  that  manner,  and  in  that  manner  only,  that 
is  known  to  the  British  Constitution."  I  can 
respect  that  sentiment.  There  is  something 
real  in  an  argument  based  on  that  foundation. 
I  do  him  the  justice  to  believe  that  he  takes 
that  view  with  a  sincere  desire  that  the  delay 
should  not  militate  against  the  scheme,  but 
that  it  should  be  adopted  by  the  people  when 
referred  to  them.  But,  honorable  gentlemen, 
contrast  that  view  with  the  idea  suggested  by 
the  honorable  gentleman  who  moved  this  re- 
solution. What  view  does  he  take?  Not 
that  there  should  be  such  a  delay  as  would 
enable  the  people  to  express  themselves  in  the 
manner  in  which  Great  Britain  and  all  her 
colonies  speak,  but  in  that  sort  of  way  which, 
as  my  honorable  friend  (Hon.  Mr.  DiCKSON) 
has  graphically  described,  is  more  nearly 
allied  to  the  peddling  of  clocks  than  to  any- 
thing connected  with  British  constitutional 
procedure.  What  does  the  honorable  gentle- 
man say  ?  He  says,  give  us  twenty  days  or 
a  month. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  said  that  was  the 
least  time  I  would  ask. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— What  could  be 
done  with  twenty  days  or  a  month's  delay  ? 
Is  it  possible  for  the  people  to  speak  in  any 
constitutional  way  in  twenty  days  or  a  month  ? 
The  honorable  gentleman  knows  very  well  that 
it  is  not  possible,  and  that  under  no  system  of 
government  could  such  a  plan,  as  his  mind  has 
suggested,  by  any  possibility  be  sanctioned  by 
the  Legislature.  \V^ould  the  people  of  New 
York  state,  or  any  of  the  States  of  the  Union, 
sanction  a  proceeding  of  that  kind  ?  On  the 
contrary,  they  would  adopt  the  course  at  once 
of  having  the  scheme  submitted  to  a  direct 
vote  of  the  people,  li  you  adopt  the  British 
constitutional  way,  then  there  will  have  to  be 
a  dissolution  of  Parliament ;  but,  if  you  adopt 
the  American  system,  the  people  will  bo  called 
upon  to  vote  "  yea  or  nay  "  on  the  scheme  as 
it  stands.  Let  it  be  expressed  in  one  way  or 
the  other,  fiurly  and  couslitutioually,  in  uc- 
corduuce    with    our   system   of  govurumeut. 


291 


My  honorable  friend  does  not  contemplate 
that.  He  contemplates  a  postponement  of 
the  subject,  in  some  way  or  other,  for  twenty 
days  or  a  month,  and  I  am  sorry  that  my 
honorable  friend,  who  spoke  last,  should  have 
felt  himself  called  upon  to  adopt  a  scheme  so 
entirely  contrary  to  what  I  know  are  his  views 
as  to  what  is  correct  and  proper,  according  to 
those  constitutional  and  British  views  which 
he  entertains.  I  am  sorry  that  he  should 
have  been  led  to  adopt  a  scheme  which  is  evi- 
dently not  advocated  by  him  from  the  same 
motives  as  those  which  actuate  my  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara. 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— I  approve  of  the 
resolution  as  it  stands,  and  I  entertain  the 
views  that  I  have  expressed.  I  have  always 
held  that  a  general  election  was  the  proper  con- 
stitutional mode  of  learning  the  people's  views, 
and  I  distinctly  stated  that  I  did  not  care  to 
have  a  short  delay. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — All  I  suggested  was 
that  the  Government  might  at  least  give  twenty 
days  or  a  month,  if  they  would  grant  no  more. 
Of  course,  I  desire  to  get  what  my  honorable 
friend  Mr.  Dickson  has  asked. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Then  I  do  hope 
my  honorable  friend  will  withdraw  his  sup- 
port to  the  amendment,  when  he  sees  that  he 
does  not  concur  with  the  mover  of  it,  who 
evidently  contemplates  some  other  course 
than  is  known  to  the  British  Constitution  for 
ascertaining  the  views  of  the  people — for  in- 
stance, by  members  going  from  door  to  door, 
or  by  holding  meetings  in  convenient  places 
and  making  themselves  agreeable  to  their  con- 
stituents by  indulging  in  hospitalities,  &c.  I 
am  quite  confident  that  is  not  the  idea  which 
my  honorable  friend  opposite  entertains ;  nor, 
I  am  satisfied,  is  it  the  view  which  any  hon- 
orable gentleman  of  this  House  can  entertain 
who  is  desirous  of  promoting  Confederation 
of  the  provinces — that  these  resolutions,  im- 
portant as  they  are,  and  necessary  as  it  is  that 
we  should  arrive  at  some  conclusion  in  refer- 
ence to  them,  should  be  laid  aside  until  my 
honorable  friend  from  Niagara  goes  about 
from  door  to  door  throughout  his  large  and 
intelligent  constituency,  knocking  at  each  and 
asking  the  views  of  the  electors  on  each  sep- 
arate resolution.  My  honorable  friend  is 
charged  with  the  duty  of  representing  his  con- 
stituency on  the  floor  of  this  House,  and  it  is 
to  be  supposed  that  he  is  well  capable  of  re- 
presenting them  in  point  of  intellect  and 
good  juflgment,  when  he  is  called  upon 
to  say  whether  or  not  he  believes  the  scheme, 
as  a  whole,   to  be   a  desirable  one  for  the 


country.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  he  seems 
to  ignore  all  that.  He  does  not  seem  willing 
to  pronounce  his  judgment  upon  this  scheme. 
He  will  not  say  that  it  is  so  objectionable  that 
he  will  vote  against  it  on  the  'merits  of  the 
case.  If  he  is  unable  to  come  to  a  decision, 
he  ought  to  resign  his  position,  and  give  place 
to  some  one  who  can  come  to  a  decision.  But 
look  at  the  position  of  a  man  who  says  in  ef- 
fect, "  I  have  no  opinion  of  my  own  ;  if  the 
people  whom  I  represent  are  favorable  to 
the  scheme,  I  have  not  a  word  to  say  ;  I  will 
vote  for  it  to  please  them,  though  I  disapprove 
of  it."  Gentlemen,  let  him  give  his  consti- 
tuency the  benefit  of  his  best  judgment,  and 
consider  whether,  reflecting  upon  the  fact  that 
there  are  five  diff"erent  proviaces  to  be  con- 
sulted, and  constituencies  upon  constituencies 
to  be  canvassed,  that  which  he  desires  can  be 
ascertained  in  any  better  way  than  by  this 
House,  considering  itself  a  fair  representation 
of  the  sentiment  of  Canada,  coming  to  an  im- 
mediate decision.  He  says  his  constituents 
have  not  charged  him  with  the  duty  of  alter- 
ing the  Constitution.  Well,  but  he  is  charged 
with  the  duty  of  exercising  his  best  judgment 
upon  every  subject  brought  before  this 
House.  We  are  not  here  for  the  purpose  of 
altering  the  Constitution.  We  have  not  the 
power  to  alter  the  Constitution  if  we  desired 
to  do  so,  but  we  have  the  sacred  duty  incum- 
bent upon  us  of  expressing  our  views  in  rela- 
tion to  such  alterations  as  may  be  considered 
advantageous  to  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Do  these  resolutions  alter  the  Constitution  of 
the  country?  Not  at  all.  They  merely  state 
that  such  alterations  are  desirable.  The  Con- 
stitution itself  can  only  be  changed  by  the 
Imperial  authorities.  We  are  not  exceeding 
what  our  French  Canadian  friends  called  the 
mandat  with  which  we  are  charged.  We 
have  no  power  to  alter  the  Constitution,  but 
we  have  the  power  of  expressing  our  views  in 
an  address  to  Her  Majesty,  which  it  is  pro- 
posed to  adopt  in  all  the  legislatures,  stating 
that  such  and  such  changes  would,  in  our 
opinion,  prove  advantageous  to  the  country. 
We  are  exercising  exactly  the  duties  which 
are  incumbent  upon  us.  We  are  giving  to 
our  constituents  the  benefit  of  our  experience 
and  honest  convictions  upon  the  topics  which 
are  committed  to  our  charge,  and  which  events 
force  upon  our  attention.  Has  not  the  House, 
on  previous  occasions,  adopted  resolutions,  the 
effect  of  which  has  been  to  bring  about 
changes  of  the  Constitution?  And  has  it 
over  before  been  argued  that  this  House  had 
no  right  to  debate  such  resolutions?  Nothing 


292 


of  the  kind.  The  first  alteration  asked  for, 
was  for  the  purpose  of  allowing  the  use  of  the 
French  language  in  the  House  of  Parliament. 
Honorable  gentlemen  might  have  said  then 
that  they  had  not  the  power  to  ask  for  such  a 
change,  but  such  an  idea  was  never  mooted. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER  — It  was  carried 
unanimously. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  had  not  the 
honor  of  haying  a  seat  in  this  House  at  the 
time,  but  I  am  happy  to  hear  that  it  was 
unanimously  carried.  Next,  a  change  was 
asked  for  in  the  composition  of  this  House. 
This  House  was  at  one  time  nominative,  and 
was,  in  1856,  made  elective.  Was  that  not  a 
change  of  the  Constitution  ?  Nobody,  how- 
ever, urged  at  that  time  the  idea  that  this 
House  had  no  power  to  pass  such  a  resolution. 
We  stand  exactly  in  the  same  position  now, 
and  it  seems  to  me  a  most  futile  and  illogical 
argument  to  say  that  we  have  not  the  power 
to  do  what  it  is  proposed  to  do  in  passing 
those  resolutions,  that  is,  to  pray  the  Queen 
so  to  change  the  Constitution  of  this  province 
that  we  may  unite  in  one  Government  with 
the  other  provinces  of  British  North  America. 
I  am  quite  satisfied  that,  when  honorable  gen- 
tlemen reflect  upon  it,  they  will  see  that  they 
are  not  in  any  way  exceeding  the  powers 
committed  to  them  by  their  constituencies. 
My  honorable  friend  from  Niagara  suggests 
this  amendment  in  a  spirit  that  is  compara- 
tively poor  to  that  in  which  it  is  supported 
by  my  honorable  friend  opposite.  He  says 
he  is  in  favor  of  the  union,  but  is  opposed  to 
some  of  the  details.  It  is  painful  to  me  that 
any  honorable  gentleman,  who  professes  a  desire 
to  advance  the  union,  should  yet  shelter  him- 
self, in  opposing  it,  under  an  objection  to  some 
of  tho  details.  Does  my  honorable  friend  se- 
riously propose  to  submit  to  the  country  all 
those  various  details  ?  Can  he  imagine  that 
he  could  get  an  intelligent  expression  from 
any  part  of  the  country  on  those  details  ? 
All  he  could  get  would  be  a  general  opinion 
in  favor  of  Confederation,  and  we  are  all  sa- 
tisfied that  he  would  have  that.  I  believe 
there  are  but  two  or  three  honorable  mem- 
bers in  this  House  who  are  really  opposed  to 
Confederation.  Take  ten  thousand  people 
from  the  country,  and  you  will  find  nine 
thousand  of  every  ten  in  favor  of  Confeder- 
ation. 

Several  Hon.  MEMBERS— No,  no. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Well,  I  will  .sub- 
mit to  the  opinion  of  honorable  gentlemen  from 
Lower  Canada,  for  I  do  not  pretend  to  bo 
■0  well  acquainted  with  the  feelings  of  their 


people,  but  I  am  in  as  good  a  position  to  speak 
for  Upper  Canada  as  any  other  honorable 
gentleman,  and  I  have  no  hesitation  in  saying 
that  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  are  almost 
unanimously  in  favor  of  Confederation.  I  am 
satisfied  that,  if  the  question  were  put  before 
the  people  by  means  of  a  general  election, 
there  would  be  an  unanimous  vote  in  Upper 
Canada  in  its  favor. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Hear,  hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— My  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara  says  "  Hear,  hear."  My 
honorable  friend  cavils  at  every  statement 
which  is  made,  attempts  to  throw  doubt  and 
distrust  upon  the  figures  which  have  been 
produced  in  advocacy  of  the  measure,  aud  has 
not  restrained  himself  from  using  every  method 
of  opposition  which  his  imagination  could  in- 
vent or  his  ability  turn  to  account.  I  must 
say  that  I  can  hardly  believe  an  honorable 
gentleman  to  be  in  favor  of  the  scheme,  who 
takes  every  opportunity  to  attack  it,  and,  when 
accused  of  hostility  shelters  himself  under  ob- 
jections to  the  details.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
shows  to  me  that  his  feelings  are  not  sincere, 
but  that  he  desires  to  upset  the  very  founda- 
tions on  which  Confederation  rests,  not  perhaps 
because  he  is  opposed  to  Confederation  in  the 
abstract,  or  a  Confederation  such  as  he  would 
like  to  see  established,  but  because  be  desires 
to  thwart  and  defeat  the  efforts  of  those  who 
have  been  honestly  Hnd  industriously  engaged 
in  bringing  about  the  scheme  which  is  now 
before  this  House.  I  say,  honorable  gentlemen, 
if  the  people  could  express  their  opinions  as 
we  may  express  ours  to-night,  they  would  all 
concur  in  the  first  resolution.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Well,  gentlemen,  it  being  granted  that  we  are 
all  in  favor  of  union,  how  are  the  details  to  be 
settled  ?  Is  it  possible  that  the  nearly  four 
millions  of  people  who  compose  the  provinces 
to  be  affected  by  the  union,  should  meet 
together  en  nuisse  and  settle  those  details?  It 
is  not  possible,  and  those  who  argue  that  the 
scheme  should  originate  with  the  people, 
know  very  well  that  it  is  not  possible.  Well, 
then,  could  the  parliaments  of  all  these  pro- 
vinces assemble  together  and  agree  upon  a 
scheme  of  Con  Federation  ?  Jiook  at  the  diffi- 
culties that  we  have  to  encounter  on  every 
point  of  the  details  in  carrying  the  scheme 
throu2;h  this  House,  and  judge  for  yourselves 
whether  the  parliaments  of  all  the  provinces 
could  meet  together,  and  originate  and  decide 
upon  the  details  of  Confederation.  There  is 
no  other  practicable  way  than  that  delegates 
sliduld  meet  together  as  they  have  done,  and 
frame  resolutions  on  the  subject,  upon  which 


293 


the  act  constituting  the  union  could  be  found- 
ed. Honorable  gentlemen  have  asked  who 
authorized  those  delegates  to  meet  together  for 
the  purpose  of  framing  those  resolutions. 
Honorable  gentlemen  know  very  well  that  the 
present  Government  of  Canada  was  formed  for 
the  very  purpose  of  considering  and  submitting 
a  scheme  of  this  kind.  My  honorable  friend 
from  Niagara  again  takes  shelter  under  the 
statement  that  what  the  Government  proposed 
to  do  was  to  bring  down  a  scheme  ibr  the  Con- 
federation of  Canada  alone,  and  that  the  bring- 
ing of  all  the  provinces  into  the  Confederation 
was  only  a  secondary  idea.  The  honorable 
gentleman  knows  very  well  that  that  statement 
of  the  case  is  a  mere  pretence.  Everybody 
knew  that  the  Government  would  endeavor  to 
overcome  the  difficulties  which  presented  them- 
selves in  working  the  government  of  Canada, 
either  by  one  project  or  by  the  other.  The 
honorable  gentleman  has  quoted  from  the 
Speech  from  the  Throne  delivered  at  the  close 
of  last  session,  in  which  an  allusion  was  made 
to  the  formation  of  a  Federal  union  between 
the  two  sections  of  this  province,  and  not  to 
a  Federal  union  of  all  the  provinces.  Why 
does  he  not  refer  to  and  quote  from  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne  at  the  opening  of  this  session  ? 
My  honorable  friend  will  find  there,  and  I 
suppose  he  will  place  the  expression  on  even 
terms  with  the  other,  the  following : — 

At  the  close  of  the  last  session  of  Parliament 
I  informed  you  that  it  was  my  intention,  in  con- 
junction with  my  ministers,  to  prepare  and  submit 
to  you  a  measure  for  the  solution  of  the  constitu- 
tional problem,  the  discussion  of  which  has  for 
some  years  agitated  this  province.  A  careful 
consideration  of  the  general  position  of  British 
North  America  induced  the  conviction  that  the 
circumstances  of  the  times  afforded  the  opportu- 
nity, not  merely  for  the  settlement  of  a  question 
of  provincial  politics,  but  also  for  the  simultaneous 
creation  of  a  new  nationality. 

Now,  my  honorable  friend  says  in  effect 
that  we  were  not  right,  when  the  opportunity 
presented  itself  of  endeavoring  to  c;irry  out 
the  idea,  in  seizing  upon  it,  and  endeavoring 
to  c-ombine  these  provinces  in  one  nationality, 
under  the  common  flag  of  Great  Britain,  and 
under  the  ruie  of  a  Viceroy  of  the  British 
Crown.  Every  honorable  gentleman  feels  in 
his  heart  that  we  were  not  only  right  and 
patriotic  in  thus  assembling,  but  that  we  were 
doing  that  which  was  promised  to  tlie  Legis- 
lature of  this  province  at  the  close  of  last 
session  of  Parliament.  Honorable  gentlemen, 
I  am  surprised  and  grieved  that  my  honorable 
friend  from  Niagara,  whom  I  know  to  be  a 
P  atriotic  and  loyal  subject  of  Her  Majesty, 


does  not  feel  it  his  duty  to  unite  with  us  in 
bringing  about  that  which  is  so  dear  to  all  of 
us — a  closer  connection  with  the  Mother  Coun- 
try, and  a  better  means  of  perpetuating  British 
institutions  on  this  continent.  (Hear,  hear.) 
My  honorable  friend  says  the  whole  scheme  is 
characterized  by  concessions  to  the  Lower 
Provinces.  Why,  honorable  gentlemen,  place 
him  in  any  portion  of  the  Lower  Provinces 
and  let  him  listen  to  the  opposition  that  is 
made  there  to  the  scheme,  and  he  will  find 
that  the  whole  cry  of  those  who,  like  him,  do 
not  reflect  on  the  necessity  of  yielding  some- 
thing for  the  common  good,  is,  that  everything 
has  been  conceded  to  Canada.  It  is  said,  "  We 
are  going  to  be  united  with  a  province  which 
is  infinitely  beyond  us  in  point  of  population 
and  wealth,  and  whose  public  men  are  able  to 
command,  by  their  ability,  a  much  larger 
influence  than  our  public  men."  They  profess 
to  believe  that  they  are  coming  under  the 
shadow  of  Canada,  and  that  everything  which 
they  desire  for  themselves  wil  be  trampled 
under  foot.  My  honorable  friend,  forgetting 
those  duties  which  he  owes  to  the  Government, 
and  forgetting  the  duty  which  he  owes  as  a 
patriotic  citizen  to  his  country,  contents  him- 
self with  findins:  fault  with  the  details  of  a 
scheme  which  he  believes  will  be  for  the  benefit 
of  the  country,  and  picks  holes  in  every  part 
of  these  details  which  he  does  not  happen  fully 
to  understand.  He  not  only  complains  that 
the  people  of  Canada  have  not  been  consulted, 
but  that  in  every  respect  the  interests  of  Can- 
ada have  been  bartered  away.  Does  he  forget 
that  the  members  of  the  Government  all  love 
their  country,  and  have  interests  as  great  and 
as  dear  to  them  as  the  rest  of  the  people  of 
Canada  ?  Is  it  likely  that  my  honorable  friend 
at  the  head  of  the  Government,  the  honorable 
and  gallant  Knight,  would  give  up  everything 
that  is  dear  to  his  race  and  to  the  people  of 
this  province?  Is  it  likely  that  any  of  us 
would  ruthlessly  throw  away  any  advantage 
which  we  could  reasonably  retain  ?  On  the 
contrai-y,  if  my  honorable  friend  could  be 
brought  to  look  upon  the  measure  with  that 
liberality  which  ought  to  characterize  a  public 
man,  he  would  concede  that,  although  we  had 
to  give  away  some  things,  we  did  that  which 
was  best  for  the  interests  of  our  country.  Let 
him  find  himself  surrounded,  as  we  were,  by 
diverse  interests — peculiarities  here,  prejudices 
there,  and  strong  interests  in  the  other  direc- 
tion, and  let  him  produce,  if  he  can,  a  scheme 
which,  on  the  whole,  is  more  advantageous  to 
the  people  of  this  province,  or  whicli  promises 
better  for  the  country  at  large  than  that  which 


294 


is  DOW  on  the  table  of  this  House.     Let  him 
do  this,  and  tlien  I  -will  forgive  him  for  the 
illiberality  which  he  exhibits  towards  those  who 
have  honef-tly  endeavored,  to  the  best  of  their 
united  ability,  to  arrange  the  scheme  which  is 
now  under  your  consideration.     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  could  forgive  my  honorable  friend  altogether, 
if,  like  my  honorable  friend  opposite,  he  took 
the  ground  that  the  scheme  ought  to  be  delayed 
until  after  a  general  election.     But,  instead  of 
that,  he  leaves  no  stone  unturaed  to  prejudice 
this  House  against  the  measure.     It  seems  to 
me  that  if  he  could  prejudice  the  House  suffi- 
ciently  against  it  to  insure  its  defeat,    as  a 
whole,  he  would  leave  no  stone  unturned  to 
accomplish  it.     So  far  from  showing  that  he 
is  in  favor  of  the  scheme,  I  cannot  for  one 
moment  imagine  how  any  one  can  believe  him 
to  be  a  sincere  friend  of  Confederation  under 
any  circumstances.     It  is  all  very  well  to  say, 
"  I  am  in  favor  of  the  scheme,  but  opposed  to 
some  of  the  details."     Was  not  every  one  of 
those  details  tested  and  tried  in  all  its  bearings, 
so  lar  as  such  a  thing  was  possible,  by  gentle- 
men as  intelligent  and  well  informed  upon  the 
subjects  embraced  as  any  honorable  gentleman 
in  this  House  ?     Every  honorable  gentleman 
now  listening  to  me  knows  very  well  that  it 
was  not  possible  to  adopt  a  scheme  that  could 
not  be  found  fault  with.     No  matter  what 
scheme  was  put  upon  the  table  of  this  House, 
even  if  my  honorable  friend  had  been  able  to 
submit  a  scheme   infinitely  superior  to  this, 
does   anybody  believe  that  certain  honorable 
gentlemen  in  this  House  would  have  supported 
it?     The    resolutions  may   be   objectionable 
here   and   objectionable   there,  but  it  is  for 
honorable     gentlemen    to    consider    all    the 
circumstances  out  of  which  they  have  grown, 
and   consider  whether,    under  those   circum- 
stances, they  ought  not  to  be  adopted  as  a  whole 
by   the   House.     Honorable    gentlemen   say, 
where  is  the  advantage  to  be  gained  by  Canada 
from    Confederation  ?      Well    now,  can    any 
honorable    gentlemen   in  his   senses    believe 
that   the  removal  of  the   obstiiclis  to  inter- 
course between  the  provinces,  the  doing  away 
with  the  customs  duties,   and  the  developing 
the  trade  of  the  St.  Lawrence,  is  no  advantage 
to  Canada  ?     Can  it  be  said  thiit  to  open  up 
commerce  with  three  millions  of  people  along 
the  St.  Lawrence  and  the  lakes  will  be  of  no 
advantage  to  the  people  of  the   Lower   Pro- 
vinces ?    Can  any  Briton,  advocating  as  he  does 
the  continuation  of  our  connection   with  the 
Mother  Country,   say — "  I  would   rather   be 
alone,  be  an  Upper  Canadian   and  be  left  to 
myself,  and  that  my  fellow-colonists  be  left  to 


take  care  of  themselves."     Then  my  honor- 
able friend  asks :    "  Where  is  the  additional 
military  strength  ?"  Does  my  honorable  friend 
pretend  to   deny  that  there  is  no   additional 
strength  in  union  over  isolation  ?     Does  any 
man   pretend  to  say  that  eight  hundred  or  a 
thousand  men    belonging    to  a  regiment  are 
just  as  strong  in  units  as  when  they  are  com- 
bined in   a  regiment  and  directed  by  the  in- 
tellect of  one  man  ?     And  just  so  the  forces 
oi'  all  these  provinces  are  comparatively  weak 
in  their  present  i-olated  state.     If  we  could 
say  to  the  United  States  that  we  had  the  con- 
trol of  four  millions  of  people  to  guard  our 
frontier  and  repel  attack,  would  not  that  form 
a  strons:  barrier  of  defence  ?     Would  that  be 
no  weapon  in  the  hands  of  a  government  de- 
sirous to  avert  an  appeal  to  iorce  of  arms  ? 
It  is  the  strength  of  a  large  number  of  people 
wielded  by  one  mind,  affording  a  power  vastly 
superior  to  that  which  Canada   alone  could 
bring  into   the  field,  and  giving  the  Govern- 
ment, when    negotiating,  an   opportunity  to 
point  to  what  might  possibly  result  from  that 
power  being  called  into  active  service.     How 
can  men  be  so  lost  to  all  that  is  true  and  use- 
ful  and  patriotic  as  to  oppose  a  union  of  the 
powers  of  defence,  and  to  oppose  a  scheme 
which  is   alone  likely  to  afford  the  means  of 
maintaining,  for  any  long  period  of  years,  that 
connection  with   Great  Britain  which  we  all 
regard  as  so  valuable  ?     My  honorable  friend 
from  Niagara  took  occasion,  in  the  course  of 
his  remarks,  to  throw  doubt  upon  one  or  two 
of  my  statements,  and  particularly  in  regard 
to  the  value  of  the  mineral  deposits  of  New- 
foundland.    I  stated  that  I  could  satisfy  the 
House    that  there  were  mineral  deposits  in 
Newfoundland  of   a  valuable    character.      I 
will  not  detain   the  House  by  reading  it  at 
length,  but  I  hold   in  my  hand  a.  copy  of  a 
report  that  was  made  on  that  colony  in  1840, 
stating  that  those  deposit-s  consisted  of  galena, 
gypsum,    marble,    gold,    iron,    copper,    etc. 
There  are  most  important  lead  mines  in  oper- 
ation, and  Professor  Shephard   states  that 
he  saw  3,500  pounds  of  pure  galena  thrown 
from  a  vein  at  a  single  blast.     He  goes  on  in 
this  report  to  describe  the  very  convenient 
position  of  the  mines,  showing  that  they  can 
be  approached  very  closely  by  vessels  drawing 
twelve  or  fifteen  feet  of  water.     This  report 
plainly  shows   that   my  honorable  Iriend  was 
mistaken   in  suppos.n:.;    that    there    wore  no 
valuable  minerals  in  Newfoundland.  But  sup- 
pose, for  the  sake  of  argument,  tiiat  there  were 
no  minerals  there  ;  suppose  we  were  simply  giv- 
ing the  Province  of  Newfoundland  $150,000  a 


295 


year  for  the  purpose  of  getting  that  island  into 
the  Confederation,  would  it  not  be  better  to 
have  the  Confederation  complete  than  to  refuse 
to  agree  to  that  condition?  One  would  suppose, 
from  the  manner  in  which  some  honorable 
gentlemen  treat  the  question,  that  the  various 
sums  to  be  annually  paid  to  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces were  to  be  paid  by  Canada  alone  ;  but 
it  is  nothing  of  the  kind, — they  are  to  be  paid 
by  the  whole  Confederation,  the  population 
receiving  the  benefit  contributing  as  much  per 
head  to  the  amount  as  that  of  the  Province 
of  Canada.  What  does  my  honorable  friend 
suppose  the  Province  of  Newfoundland  gives 
up  to  the  Confederation  in  return  for  the 
8150,000  ?  It  transfers  to  us  the  whole  right 
of  property  in  its  unsold  lands,  and  the  whole 
of  its  general  revenue.  In  1862,  it  had  a 
gross  revenue  of  $480,000,  only  §5,000  of 
which  was  from  local  sources,  and  it  is  calcu- 
lated that  the  colony  will  bring  a  revenue  of 
8430,000  per  annum  to  the  Confederate 
purse,  while  the  total  amount  it  will  receive 
will  be  §369,200  per  annum  out  of  which  to 
defray  its  local  expenses.  Is  there  anything 
so  marvellously  outrageous  in  that  ?  In  ad- 
dition to  the  fact  that  Newfoundland  will  pay 
the  Confederation  §430,000,  and  receive 
$369,000,  we  have  a  complete  yielding  lo  the 
Federal  Government  of  aU  her  territorial 
sources  of  revenue.  And  so  it  is  with  all  the 
provinces.  Each  of  them  will  contribute  to  the 
general  revenue,  or  to  the  Confederate  purse, 
more  than  they  will  receive  from  it,  so  that 
the  revenue  of  the  whole  country  will  show  a 
surplus.  The  honorable  gentleman  from  Nia- 
gara evidently  contemplates  much  more  by 
his  amendment  than  my  honorable  friend  op- 
posite, who  has  so  ably  supported  it,  contem- 
plates. My  honorable  friend  who  supported 
the  amendment  contemplates  a  delay  until 
there  shall  be  an  expression  of  the  people 
taken  through  a  dissolution  of  Parliament. 
Well  now,  how  can  a  dissolution  of  Parlia- 
ment be  brou2;ht  about  in  a  constitutional 
manner  ?  Suppose  this  scheme  to  receive  the 
support  of  an  immense  majority  of  the  Lower 
House,  as  it  plainly  does,  and  also  of  a  large 
majority  in  this  House,  how,  I  would  ask, 
under  our  system  of  government,  can  a  disso- 
lution be  brought  about  ?  A  dissolution  is 
unknown  to  the  British  Constitution,  as  car- 
ried out  in  this  province,  except  when  a 
measure,  originated  by  the  Government,  does 
not  receive  the  support  of  Parliament.  Re- 
ceiving the  support  of  more  than  two-thirds 
of  the  representatives  of  the  people,  as  the 
present  Government  does,  how  is  it  possible 


that  Parliament  could  be  dissolved  to  suit  the 
views  of  a  small  minority  ?  That  is  ask- 
ing quite  too  much,  even  if  it  were  pos- 
sible to  grant  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  What,  there- 
fore, do  honorable  gentlemen  ask,  when  they 
ask  that  the  scheme  be  submitted  to  the  peo- 
ple ?  They  ask  us  as  a  Government  to  leave 
that  which  we  consider  the  safe,  sound,  British 
constitutional  mode  of  procedure,  and  resort 
to  the  American  system  of  obtaining  assent 
to  constitutional  alterations,  by  taking  the 
votes,  yea  and  nay,  of  the  individual  members 
of  the  whole  community.  What  sort  of  a 
conclusion  could  be  arrived  at  by  that  mode 
of  procedure  ?  Is  it  possible  that  any  hon. 
member  of  this  House  desires  that  the  people 
should  have  the  opportunity  of  saying  yea  or 
nay  to  each  clause  of  these  resolutions  ?  I 
am  satisfied  that  that  is  not  wh  it  my  honor- 
able friend  from  Niagara  desires,  because  he 
only  asks  for  a  delay  of  a  month ;  and  my 
honorable  friend  opposite  does  not  desire  it, 
because  he  knows  the  British  Constitution  and 
loves  it  too  well  to  contemplate  such  a  course 
for  a  moment.  What  conclusion,  then,  can  we 
arrive  at,  but  that  those  who  oppose  the 
passage  of  the  scheme  through  this  House,  by 
moving  and  supporting  amendments  to  it,  are 
desirous  of  defeating  it,  and  make  those 
amendments  for  that  purpose  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  satisfied,  from  the  best  information  I  can 
obtain,  that  the  passage  of  the  amendment 
would  have  a  very  great  tendency  towards  de- 
feating the  measure.  It  has  to  be  agreed  to 
in  both  branches  of  all  the  other  legislatures, 
and  then  in  the  Imperial  Parliament.  All  the 
other  legislatures  are  now  waiting  upon  the 
action  of  this  House.  They  are  waiting  to 
know  whether  honorable  gentlemen  of  the 
Legislative  Council  of  Canada  concur  in  the 
scheme — whether  you  are  satisfied  to  put  on 
one  side  small  objections  to  minor  matters  of 
detail — to  put  to  one  side  your  individual 
opinions  on  this  point  and  on  that  point,  and 
give  it  your  support  as  a  whole.  Every  person 
who  reflects  upon  the  subject  must  be  satisfied 
that  that  would  have  to  be  done  under  any 
circumstanced.  Do  you  desire  to  have  a  union 
of  all  the  British  American  Provinces,  or  do 
you  desire  to  remain  as  you  are  ?  That  is  the 
issue.  For  myself,  I  feel  that  our  connection 
with  the  Mother  Country  cannot  be  maintained 
for  any  great  length  of  time  without  such  a 
union.  What  have  we  found  in  the  utterances 
of  the  public  men  of  England  from  year  to 
year  ?  Have  we  not  found  them  asserting, 
with  more  and  more  vehemence  every  year, 
that  we  were  not  doing  our  duty  ou  this  side 


296 


of  the  writer  in  relation  to  our  defences  ?  If 
Great  Britain  should  get  into  a  war  with  the 
United  States  from  circumstances  over  which 
we  had  no  control,  still  our  destinies  were 
linked  in  with  those  of  the  great  empire  of 
which  we  form  a  part,  and  it  is  our  duty, 
under  all  circumstances,  to  do  something  more 
than  we  have  yet  done,  to  prepare  for  events 
that  may  haj)pen  from  one  cause  or  another. 
But  suppose  that  during  the  past  summer 
armed  forces  from  the  United  States  had  en- 
tered Canada  in  pursuit  of  raiders  escaping 
into  this  province  from  the  other  side  of  the 
border,  as  they  might  have  done  had  not  Geu. 
Dix's  order  been  withdrawn ;  and  had  we 
found  that  our  integrity  as  a  member  of  the 
great  Empire  was  not  respected,  and  Great 
Britain  had  coincided  with  the  views  of  our 
Government  and  declared  war  against  the 
"United  States,  because  that  country  had  exer- 
cised liberties  in  one  of  her  provinces  to  which 
no  foreign  power  was  entitled,  where  then 
would  have  been  the  cause  of  the  war  ?  It 
would  have  lain  in  the  assertion  of  the  right 
of  the  people  of  this  province  to  maintain  the 
position  of  an  integral  poition  of  the  British 
Empire.  Well,  supposing  the  cause  of  a  war 
with  that  nation  to  have  been  elsewhere,  still 
we  must  partake  with  the  Empire  in  upholding 
its  integrity,  and  must  stand  or  fall  with  that 
Empire.  Shall  we  say  that  we  will  contribute 
nothing  towards  our  defence  except  to  keep 
up  the  volunteers,  and  depend  entirely  upon 
what  the  Mother  Country,  for  prudential 
reasons,  may  do  for  us  ?  Is  that  a  leeling 
that  any  honorable  member  of  this  House 
ought  to  be  actuated  by  in  relation  to 
this  or  any  other  question  ?  I  am  sure  no 
honorable  gentleman  would  be  willing  to  sit 
down  and  fold  his  arms  under  the  protection 
which  the  money  and  arms  of  Great  Britain 
give  us;  and  I  am  sure  my  honorable  friend 
from  Niagara  himself  would  not  unite  in  such 
a  view  plainly  expressed.  Still,  my  honorable 
friend  thinks  these  resolutions  ought  not  to 
pass  this  House,  but  ought  to  be  postponed 
indefinitely,  leaving  the  colonies  in  the  divided 
condition  in  which  they  now  are.  I  believe, 
on  the  contrary,  that  the  intere.sts  and  destiny 
of  this  country  are  bound  up  in  the  union  now 
contemplited  taking  place.  Suppose,  as 
many  believe,  the  end  of  that  unfortunate 
fratricidal  strife  in  the  United  States  is  at 
hand,  and  a  reconciliation  takes  place  at  any 
reasonable  time  between  the  Northern  and 
Southern  States,  I  um  quite  sure  the  main- 
tenance of  the  integrity  of  these  provinces 
will  depend  upon  this  union  having  been  con- 


summated. If  the  scheme  is  postponed  now, 
it  is  postponed  indefinitely.  For  years  past 
the  effort  has  been  making  to  get  the 
Lower  Provinces  to  assent  to  a  union  with 
Canada,  and,  if  the  question  is  now  postponed, 
there  is  no  knowing  whether  we  shall  ever 
be  able  to  get  their  assent  to  it  again  or  not. 
Action  in  the  parliaments  of  Nova  Scotia, 
Newfoundland,  and  Piince  Edward  Island,  is 
now  hanging  upon  the  proceedings  in  this 
House.  If  you  pass  an  amendment,  it  will 
indicate  to  them  that  the  people  of  Canada 
are  not  warmly  in  favor  of  the  scheme.  Hon- 
orable gentlemen,  are  you  ready  to  take  the 
responsibility  of  declaring  that  the  people  of 
Canada  are  opposed  to  Confederation  ?  There 
is  no  knowing  when  circumstances  will  allow 
of  its  being  brought  to  this  forward  stage 
again.  Those  of  you  who  know  what  difficul- 
ties and  objections  were  met  with — the  selfish 
interests  of  the  various  sections  of  this  and  of 
the  other  provinces,  which  we  had  to  over- 
come— must  feel  that  a  very  great  advance 
was  made  when  the  measure  was  brought  to 
the  present  forward  stage.  When  again  will 
it  be  likely  to  happen  that  the  representatives 
of  the  various  provinces  will  be  brought 
together  to  consider  the  qucstioa  ?  When 
will  it  again  happen  that  thu  governments  of 
the  several  provinces  concerned  will  be  able 
to  lay  upon  the  table  of  their  respective  legis- 
latures a  scheme  so  complete  in  all  its  details 
as  this  is  ?  It  is  impossible  to  say  when  that 
happy  coincidence  of  circumstances  will  again 
occur.  Then  my  honorable  I'riend  from  Nia- 
gara says,  "  You  have  not  given  us  the  scheme 
in  detail.  You  have  not  given  the  whole  of  it. 
The  House  has  not  before  it  the  proposed 
Constitution  under  which  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  are  hereafter  to  meet.  You  have  not 
told  us  what  are  to  be  the  rights  and  the 
powers  of  the  local  legislatures."  Well,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  all  I  can  say  is,  that  it  would 
be  impossible,  and  not  only  impossible,  it  would 
be  useless  for  the  Government  to  have  brought 
down  this  scheme  at  the  same  time  that  they 
submitted  the  scheme  now  bciorc  the  House. 
Until  this  scheme  passes,  until  it  shall  be 
adopted  in  the  other  provinces,  until  we  know 
whether  or  not  we  are  to  form  portions  of  a 
Confederate  Government,  there  is  no  occjision 
for  introducing  the  scheme  relating  to  the 
local  legislatures.  But,  honorable  a;entlemen, 
is  it  likely  or  can  it  bo  possible  lor  such  a 
scheme  to  be  adopted  without  the  sanction  of 
both  branches  of  the  Legislature?  The  plan, 
whatever  it  may  be,  for  the  constitution  of 
Upper   and   Lower   Canada,   is  it  a  matter 


297 


which  the  ministers  of  the  Crown  can  carry 
in  their  pockets  and  put  in  force  without  the 
sanction  of  Parliament  ?  No,  it  is  a  measure 
which  must  hereafter  be  laid  on  the  table  of 
this  House,  which  must  be  debated,  and  upon 
which  we  shall  all  have  an  opportunity  of 
pronoimcing  an  opinion  before  it  comes  in 
force.  At  the  proper  time,  a  full  opportunity 
will  be  afforded  to  those  who  dissent  from  the 
views  of  the  Government,  in  regard  to  the 
constitutions  of  these  provinces,  of  expressing 
their  opinions,  and  of  seeking  to  give  effect  to 
them.  The  same  may  be  said  in  regard  to 
the  objections  taken  to  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way. It  is  asserted  that  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  is  something  that  we  ought  never  to 
have  agreed  to.  But  honorable  gentlemen 
will  acknowledge,  as  a  general  proposition, 
that  union  is  impossible  without  the  railway, 
and  such  as  believe  that  union  is  important 
and  necessary,  must  be  content  to  take  the 
railway  as  a  condition  which  is  indispensable. 
But,  honorable  gentlemen,  the  Government 
cannot  of  itself  build  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way. There  is  no  power  either  in  this  Gov- 
ernment or  the  Governments  of  the  other 
provinces  to  build  it.  We  must  come  down 
to  Parliament  for  the  sanction — not  to  this 
Parliament,  but  to  the  Confederate  Parlia- 
ment, and  the  Confederate  Parliament  will 
have  an  opportunity  of  saying  upon  what 
terms  we  shall  build  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way. The  fullest  opportunity  will  be  afforded 
for  discussion  before  either  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  is  built,  or  the  constitutions  are 
adopted  for  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  The 
former  will  be  submitted  to  the  Confederate 
Parliament ;  the  latter,  should  the  resolu- 
tions now  before  the  House  pass,  to  the  pre- 
sent Parliament  of  Canada;  for  that  must 
necessarily  be  a  matter  for  the  disposal  of  the 
Legislature  of  Canada.  I  am  not  one  of  those 
who  would,  as  suggested,  desire  to  take  shelter 
behind  the  resolutions  before  the  House  for 
any  unworthy  purpose ;  but  this  I  will  say, 
that  the  amendment  now  before  the  House 
ought  not  to  receive  its  sanction.  I  am  quite 
satisfied  that  no  honorable  member  of  this 
House,  who  is  really  and  truly  an  advocate  of 
this  scheme,  and  who  believes  that  Confeder- 
ation of  all  the  provinces  is  important  and 
desirable,  will  be  found  voting  for  this  amend- 
ment, which  would  place  a  barrier  in  the  way 
of  Confederation,  such  as,  perhaps,  we  could 
not  overcome.  Fancy  the  number  of  years 
during  which  this  matter  has  been  contem- 
plated. As  my  honorable  friend  who  sits  near 
me  pointed  out,  it  is  a  measure  which  has 
39 


long  been  agitated.  He  shewed  you  that  for 
years  and  years  it  has  engaged  the  attention  of 
almost  every  person  who  took  any  kind  of  in- 
terest in  the  public  affairs  of  this  country.  I 
have  only  one  thing  to  add  to  my  honorable 
friend's  elaborate  statement  on  this  point,  and 
that  is,  to  quote  an  extract  from  the  resolu- 
tions proposed  in  this  House  many  years  ago 
by  an  honorable  friend  of  mine,  whom  I  am 
glad,  and  whom  every  one  of  his  fellow  mem- 
bers is  glad  to  find  still  occupying  his  accus- 
tomed place  in  this  House — I  refer  to  my 
honorable  friend  Hon.  Mr.  Matheson.  In 
1855,  ray  honorable  friend  proposed  a  series 
of  resolutions  in  this  House  against  the  elec- 
tive principle,  the  last  of  which  is  in  language 
prophetic  of  the  result  which  now  we  are  test- 
ing by  actual  experience.  The  resolution  is 
in  these  words : — 

8.  Resolved, — That  as  the  subject  of  a  nnion 
of  the  whole  of  the  British  North  American  Pro- 
vinces has  for  years  occupied  the  public  atten- 
tion, it  would  manifestly  be  unwise  to  complicate 
future  arrangements  by  a  change  in  the  Constitu- 
tion of  one  of  those  provinces,  which  has  not 
been  sought  for,  and  which  this  House  believes, 
would  not  be  acceptable  to  the  others.  It  is, 
therefore,  the  opinion  of  this  Council,  that  any 
proceedings  on  the  subject  at  the  present  juncture 
would  be  premature,  unwise,  and  inexpedient. 

My  honorable  friend  at  that  time  looked  for- 
ward to  that  which  we  now  see  about  to  take 
place — a  union  of  these  provinces — and  he 
anticipated  also  that  the  elective  system,  if 
introduced  into  this  branch  of  the  Legislature, 
would  be  fraught  with  difficulty.  It  has  been 
fraught  with  difiiculty,  and  it  is  a  difficulty 
which  we  must  surmount — a  barrier  which 
we  must  strive  to  overcome.  The  personal 
objections  which  my  honorable  friend  from 
Niagara  division  has  started,  are  the  poorest 
kind  of  objections.  It  is  not  what  my  hon- 
orable friend  near  me,  or  my  honorable  friend 
opposite,  possibly  thought  or  said  at  some  re- 
mote period,  that  we  have  now  to  consider. 
We  are  all  more  or  less  exposed  to  this  sort 
of  attack ;  but  fortunately  the  time  during 
which  I  have  had  the  honor  of  being  in  pub- 
lic life  has  been  so  short,  and  the  position  I 
have  since  occupied  has  been  so  obscure,  that 
I  am  not  so  much  exposed  as  many  others  to 
these  accusations ;  but  I  am  well  aware  that 
this  is  owing  to  my  comparative  insignificance. 
I  must  say  that  for  my  part  I  am  disposed  to 
put  aside  all  these  things.  I  am  disposed  to 
put  aside  all  reference  to  what  an  honorable 
member  may  have  done  under  other  circum- 
stances and  in  other  times,  and  I  would  mere- 


298 


ly  ask  myself  this:  "Is  this  Confederation 
desirable?  Do  I  wish  for  it  as  a  lover  of 
monarchical  institutions  ?  Do  I  desire  it  as 
a  fubject  of  the  British  Empire?  Do  I  wish 
for  the  perpetuation  of  the  connection  between 
this  country  and  Great  Britain  ?  "  If  I  do 
I  shall  waive  my  objections  on  this  point  and 
the  other,  in  my  desire  for  the  success  of  the 
principle.  This  Confederation  has  been  sought 
after  for  years,  but  never  until  now  has  it  ap- 
proached so  near  a  consummation — never  waa 
it  a  possibility  as  it  is  now  a  possibility. 
After  years  of  anxiety,  after  years  of  diffi- 
culty, after  troubles  here  and  divisions  there, 
the  scheme  is  found  possible,  and  I  will  not 
put  it  away  from  me  because  I  object  to  this 
point  or  to  that.  If  this  harness  of  the  Con- 
federation of  the  country  is  to  be  put  on,  we 
cannot  but  expect  that  it  will  chafe  here  and 
chafe  there ;  but  time  will  give  relief  and 
provide  the  remedy,  as  it  has  done  in  other 
circumstances  before.  It  was  so  in  regard  to 
the  union  of  1840.  The  Lower  Canadians  had 
a  grievance  in  the  French  language  being  ex- 
cluded from  the  Provincial  Parliament.  That 
chafed,  aa  was  to  be  expected,  and  provoked 
remonstrance.  And  what  was  the  result  ? 
The  injustice  complained  of  was  done  away 
with,  and  both  languages  were  thereafter  per- 
mitted to  be  used.  Then  it  was  the  desire 
of  the  people  that  the  elective  system  should 
be  introduced  into  this  House.  I  believe  my- 
self that  it  was  a  mistake,  but  a  change  was 
desired,  and  a  change  was  brought  about. 
And  so  it  will  be  in  this  case..  If  change  is 
seriously  desired,  it  will  be  had.  It  would  be 
unwise  and  unstatesmanUke,  in  my  opinion, 
to  declare  that  because  we  cannot  have  our 
way  on  this  point  or  on  that  point — that  be- 
cause the  scheme  in  all  its  features  is  not  ex- 
actly what  we  would  like  it  to  be — we  will 
not  have  it  at  all.  A\' here,  honorable  gentle- 
men, is  the  union  efiFected  between  any  two 
countries,  or  any  two  individuals  even,  which 
has  lasted  for  any  length  of  time  without 
mutual  forbearance  and  mutual  concessions  ? 
Let  those  honorable  gentlemen  who  have  had 
the  good  fortune  of  formiug  unions,  and  who 
can  therefore  speak  from  experience,  say 
whether  any  union  can  bo  formed  either 
happy  or  lasting  without  forbearance  on  both 
sides.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  You  must 
give  up  all  tlioughts  of  union  unless  you  are 
willing  to  give  and  take,  and  cease  persisting  for 
evciytiiiiig  you  think  best.  Nobody  ever  did 
eflfecl  a  union  upon  such  terms,  and  nobody  ever 
will.  You  must  forbear  here  and  give  way 
there.    I  trust  and  believe  that  in  the  present 


instance  this  will  be  the  opinion  of  the  Legis- 
lature of  this  country.  I  trust  and  believe 
we  are  satisfied  that  Federation  is  desirable 
in  itself,  and  that,  without  insisting  on  this 
point  or  on  that  point,  we  will  be  looking  con- 
fidently forward  to  the  future,  when  we  shall 
witness,  in  this  country,  a  population  of  four 
millions,  with  a  valuable  commerce,  and,  in 
point  of  naval  power  and  supremacy,  ranking 
fourth  in  the  world.  (Applause.)  Particu- 
larly am  I  surprised  that  any  honorable  gen- 
tleman from  Lower  Canada  should  oppose 
himself  to  this  union,  for  by  union  the  peo- 
ple of  Lower  Canada  will  regain  possession  of 
those  countries  which  were  once  belonging  to 
their  race,  and  in  which  their  language  con- 
tinues to  be  spoken.  I  believe  that  for  them, 
as  well  as  for  us,  there  is  a  future  in  store  of 
great  promise,  to  which  we  can  aU  look  for- 
ward with  the  most  confident  expectations. 
And  shall  we  set  aside  all  these  promising 
prospects  because  we  cannot  obtain  this  little 
point  or  that  little  point  ?  I  hope  honorable 
gentlemen  who  favor  the  scheme  see  as  I  see 
that  there  is  imminent  danger  in  postponing 
the  measure,  and  I  ask  them  not  to  pass  this 
amendment,  which  is  brought  forward  in  the 
poorest  of  all  spirits,  which  is  based  on  the 
assumption  that  honorable  gentlemen  are  not 
ready  to  give  the  country  the  benefit  of  their 
minds  and  their  judgments,  but  which  asks 
us  to  wait  and  go  knocking  about  from  door 
to  door,  asking  what  is  thought  about  the 
scheme  upon  which  we  are  now  called  to  le- 
gislate. Federation  is  the  future  safety  and 
salvation  of  the  country.  Let  us  then  waive 
our  small  objections  and  vote  for  Federation. 
(Applause.) 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— The  Hon.  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  is  right  in  sup- 
posing that  I  am  opposed  to  Federation  I 
am  opposed  to  it,  and  particularly  on  the 
basis  agreed  upon  at  the  Quebec  Convention. 
I  do  not  say  that  I  would  be  opposed  to  a 
legislative  union  on  fair  and  equal  terms  ; 
but  I  am  decidedly  opposed  to  Federation 
on  the  terms  now  before  the  House.  My 
hon.  friend  has  said  that  in  all  unions  there 
must  be  forbearance;  but  in  this  Federation 
scheme  it  appears  to  mo  the  forbearance  has 
been  all  on  one  side.  The  forbearance  has 
not  been  mutual.  When  parties  enter  into 
a  partnership,  there  ought  to  be  forbearance 
on  the  part  of  each,  and  mutual  concessions. 
But  in  thi.s  case  the  coucest<ioi)s  as  well  aa 
the  forbearance  have  been  all  on  the  side  of 
Canada.  My  hon.  friend,  with  ail  his  elo- 
quence and  ability,  haa  not  answered  a  single 


299 


objection    raised   by   xny  hon.  friend  from 
Niagara  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie).  He  has  found 
it  convenient  to  pass  them  all  over  for  the 
simple  reason  that  he  found  them  unanswer- 
able.  My  hon,  friend  says  : — "  Was  not  the 
French  language  restored  to  Lower  Canada, 
and  was  not  this  a  change  in  the  Constitution?" 
Hon.  gentlemen,   it  was  certainly  restored, 
and  by  the  Conservative  administration  of  that 
day,  and,  as  my  hon.  friend  opposite  (Hon. 
Mr.  Boulton)  has  said,  unanimously.  There 
was  no  opposition,  for   it  was   con.sidered  a 
right  to  which  our  French  Canadian  fellow- 
subjects    were   fully   entitled.     But    is  the 
restoration   of  the  French  language  to   be 
compared  with  the  resolutions  now  proposed 
—  with    the    great    constitutional    change 
which   is  intended  to  affect,  not  only  our- 
selves, but  our  children  and  our  children's 
children   for  all  time  to  come  ?  Is  a  change 
like  this  to  be  compared  with  the  restoration 
of  the  French  language  ?  Certainly  not.    It 
seems  to  me  to  be  the  most  extraordinary 
comparison   I    ever   heard    of      Then   my 
hon.  friend  has  referred   to  the  change  in 
the  constitutioQ  of  the  Legislative  Council. 
But    was  not  that  question   over  and  over 
again  before  the  people  ?  Did  not  the  people 
at   the  hustings   frequently    pronounce   an 
opinion  upon    that   change  ?    Undoubtedly 
they  did,  and  it  being  understood  that  the 
people  were  in  favor  of  it,  the  change  was 
brought  about.   My  hon.  friend  says  that  in 
the  Conference   they  were  surrounded  with 
difficulties.  No  doubt  they  were.  And  why  ? 
Because  they  allowed   for   Prince  Edward 
Island  and  Newfoundland  as  many  delegates 
as  they  did  for  Canada.  No  doubt  they  were 
surrounded  with  difficulties.  No  doubt  they 
were  overwhelmed  by  the  demands  of  these 
gentlemen.     The  hon.  gentleman  says  that 
Confederation  is  necessary  to  strengthen  the 
defences  of  the  country.  In  what  way?  Can 
any  hon.  gentleman  tell  me  in  what  way  ? 
I  have  not  heard  one  word  to  prove,  to  my 
satisfaction,  how  the  defences  of  the  country 
are  to  be  strengthened  by  Federation,  unless 
indeed  it  be  by  placing  the  whole   of  the 
provinces  under  one  head.     Why,  hon.  gen- 
tlemen, did  I  not  shew  here  the  other  day 
what  was  the  feeling  of  the  Lower  Provinces 
in  regard  to  the  delenccs  of  the  country  ? 
At  a  time  when  our  Parliament  were  propos- 
ing to  pass  an  act  which  would  entail  the 
expenditure  of  millions  on  the  defences  of 
the  country,  what  was  being  done  in   the 
Lower  Provinces?  Why  the  Financial  Secre- 


tary of  one  of  the  provinces  came  down  with 
a  proposed   grant  of  $20,000,  and    he    was 
obliged  to  apologize  to  the  House  that  the 
sum  was  so  large  !  And  the  present  Premier 
of  Nova  Scotia — the  province  second  in  impor- 
tance in  British  Noith  America  —  proposed 
to  strike  off  $12,000,  and  leave  the  appro- 
priation at  $8,000.    This  was  proposed  by  a 
province  next  in  importance  to  our  own,  and 
at  the  time  of  the  Trent  afJair,  when  there  was 
an  appearance  of  danger  much  greater  than  at 
present.  x\nd  what  did  New  Brunswick  do  ? 
Appropriate  $15,000.     The  people  that  did 
all  this  are  the  people  to  whom  we  are  to 
ally  ourselves  that  we  may  be  strengthened 
in  our  efforts  for  the  defence  of  the  country  ! 
Do  hon.  gentlemen  believe  that  an  alliance 
with  provinces  whose  leading  men  hold  such 
views  as  these  would  add  to  our  strength  ? 
Certainly  not.     My   hon.  friend  the  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  has  also  said  that 
95  out  of  every  100  of  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  are  in  favor  of  Federation.    My  hon. 
friend  is  u^istaken.    I  once  had  the  honor  of 
representing  a  portion  of  his  constituents, 
and  I  would  inform  my  hon.  friend  that  I 
know  as  much  of  the  feeling,   not  simply  of 
the  people   of  Upper  Canada,  speaking  of 
them  generally,  but  of  his  constituents,  as 
he  does ;  and  this  I  would  say  that  were  my 
hon.  friend  to  go  before  his  constituents  and 
tell  them  that,  in  order  to  get  Federation, 
Upper  Canada  is  to  pay  two-thirds   of  the 
cost  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,    and  two- 
thirds  of  the  cost  of  maintenance  of  the  road 
for  all  time  to  come,  and  that  the  roads  of 
the  Lower  Provinces  are  to  be  made  Govern- 
ment roads,  and   to  be  kept  up  in  future  at 
the  expense  of  the  Federal  Grovernment,  and 
tnat  Upper  Canada  will  have  two-thirds  of  the 
burden    to  bear,  I   will  venture  to   say  that 
my  hoD.  friend  would  fi  jd  himself  wrong  in 
his  estimate  of  being  able  to  satisfy  95  out  of 
every  100  of  his  constituents. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Tell  them  of 
all  the  circumstances,  and  I  would  be  able 
to  satisfy  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— My  hon.  friend 
is  greatly  mistaken.  If  my  hon.  fiiend  is  to 
be  one  of  the  life  members  under  the  Feder- 
ation, he  would  not  require  so  much  to  satisfy 
them. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— My  hon.  friend 
is  altogether  too  fast.  I  do  not  look  forward 
to  any  such  thing. 

Hon.  Mr.  SEYMOUR— My  hon.  friend 
has  the  power  in  his  hands  j  but  if  he  does 


300 


not  desire  the  honor,  of  course  he  can  avoid 
its  being  thrust  upon  him.  But  my  hon.  friend 
could  not  for  a  moment  go  before  his  con- 
stituents— and  he  represents  a  constituency 
which  for  intelligence  is  second  to  none  in 
Upper  Canada — and  tell  them  that  they  are 
to  contribute  to  the  revenue  of  the  Confede- 
ration in  proportion  to  their  import  duties — 
that  they  are  to  contribute  according  to 
their  wealth — and  that  they  are  only  to 
receive  back  in  proportion  to  their  po;  ula- 
tion — that  largely  as  they  contribute,  the 
return  will  only  be  the  same  as  to  the  fisher- 
men and  lumberers  who  form  the  floating 
population  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  carry 
so  large  a  majority  as  he  has  named  with 
him.  A  doctrine  such  as  this  is  any  thing  but 
conservative.  I  wo  :ld  submit  to  any  thing 
rather  than  vote  for  such  a  scheme.  Were 
I  to  support  it  in  its  present  shape  I  should 
consider  myself  as  betraying  the  interests  of 
my  country.  Hon.  gentleman  are  of  course 
entitled  to  their  own  opinions  in  this  matter; 
but  these  are  mine,  and  I  shall  continue  to 
maintain  and  uphold  them.  I  assert  that  the 
amendment  of  my  hon.  friend  for  delay  is  a 
just  and  reasonable  one,  an!  I  cannot  see 
how  it  can  possibly  be  objected  to  in  a 
matter  of  thi^  imoortance,  where  the  dearest 
interests  of  the  whole  country  are  at  stake, 
and  where  we  are  legislating  not  for  ourselves 
alone  but  for  future  generations.  Such 
being  the  importance  of  the  measure,  I 
cannot  conceive  how  hon.  gentlemen  can 
vote  against  so  reasonable  a  proposition. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR  — I 
seek  for  information  from  the  Hon.  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands,  as  to  the  scheme 
respecting  the  local  legislatures.  Did  I 
understand  niy  hon.  friend  to  say  that  it 
would  be  submitted  to  the  present  Par- 
liament ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  is  so  in- 
tended. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR  — I 
also  understood  my  hon.  friend  to  say  that 
be;ore  the  House  pronounced  upon  the 
general  scheme  of  Federation,  it  would  not 
be  proper  to  submit  the  scheme  for  the  local 
legislatures.  I  cannot  see  the  i'orce  of 
that.  But  still  I  will  not  raise  that  as  an 
objection  to  proceeding  with  the  present 
Bohcme. 

Hon.    Mr    CAMPBELl Perhaps   my 

hon.  friend  from  Brook  is  right  in  the  view 
lie   takes.      But   it   was   throught   by   the 


Government  that  it  would  be  premature  to 
bring  in  the  sheme  for  the  local  govern- 
ments until  it  was  seen  'hether  Parliament 
was  in  favor  of  these  resolutions. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR— But 
many  members  of  this  House,  before  making 
up  their  minds  as  to  how  they  ought  to  vote 
on  the  resolutions,  would  like  to  be  informed 
as  to  the  nature  of  the  local  scheme,  which 
is  to  have  such  an  important  bearing  on  the 
question  at  issue. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  Parliament 
of  the  country  will  have  the  fullest  opportu- 
nity of  pronouncing  upon  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  SIMPSON— When  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— After  these 
resolutions  have  been  passed.  We  thought 
it  was  unnecessary  for  us  to  give  our  atten- 
tion to  the  local  constitutions  for  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  until  we  had  ascertained 
whether  Parliament  was  in  favor  of  Federa- 
tion. That  ascertained,  we  shall  feel  it  our 
duty  to  give  our  minds  to  the  preparation  of 
the  scheme  for  the  constitutions  of  the  two 
provinces ;  and  these  constitutions  will  be 
laid  before  Parliament. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — I  do  not  know  what 
the  views  of  the  Government  may  be  upon 
this  point,  but  it  seems  to  me  that  it  would 
have  been  an  extraordinary  proceeding  had 
they  brought  down  at  this  juncture  the 
propose'i  constitutions  for  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  There  may  a  great  difference 
of  opinion  arise  as  to  the  constitutions 
proper  to  be  proposed  for  these  provinc-.s; 
and  it  is  quite  possible  that  these  differences 
may  occasion  the  withdrawal  of  some 
members  of  the  Government.  (Cries  of 
"  hear,  heir.")  Hon.  gentlemen  cry  "  hear, 
hear."  But  I  say  that  such  may  possibly  be 
the  case.  And  it  would  be  absurd  and 
impolitic  for  the  Government  to  throw  the 
country  in  a  state  of  confusion  as  regards 
the  scheme  for  the  local  legislatures  if  they 
failed  in  carrying  the  lesolutions  here  sub- 
mitted Hon.  gentlemen  will  see  that  they 
would  be  unworthy  of  the  position  they  hold 
were  they  to  do  so.  I  am  not  sure  whether 
I  understood  my  hon.  friend  to  say  that  the 
>cheme  for  the  local  legislatures  would  be 
brought  down  on  the  pacing  of  the.se  reso- 
lutions. I  hope  that  I  misunderstood  him, 
because  I  think  we  should  wait  the  result  of 
the  action  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  We 
should  see  if  Federation  succeeds  there, 
inasmuch  as  in  case  of  its  failure  in  the 
Lower  Provinces,  even  if  we  adopt  the  roso- 


801 


lutions  here,  the  arrangement  would  not  go 
into  effect,  and  we  would  be  placing  the 
country  in  a  state  of  turmoil  and  confusion 
in  discussing  measures  which  would  be 
altogether  unnecessary.  We  ought,  it  seems 
to  me,  first  to  carry  out  this  arrangement  as 
far  as  it  is  possible  to  carry  it,  and  if  we 
can  secure  the  assent  to  it  of  the  two  larger 
provinces  below,  there  will  be  a  reasonable 
certainty  of  the  scheme  being  effected.  And 
then,  and  not  till  then  will  the  proper  time 
arrive  for  the  discussion  of  the  proposed 
constitutions  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
"I  am  perfectly  amized  at  the  proposition 
of  my  hon.  friend  (Hon.  Mr  Ferglsson 
Blair),  because  he  is  friendly  to  these 
resolutions,  and  gave  us  the  expression 
of  his  views  thereon  in  an  admirable 
manner  at  the  opening  of  the  debate.  And 
how  the  hon.  gentleman  should  desire  to 
have  the  scheme  for  the  local  legislatures 
quoad  this  project  is  beyond  my  compre- 
hension. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR— I 
think  it  is  only  reasonable  that,  as  hoc.  gen- 
tlemen argue,  they  should  see  before  voting 
for  or  against  Federation  what  are  the  pro- 
posed constitutions  for  the  local  legisla- 
tures.   (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— My  hon.  friend 
should  aid  this  to  the  reflection — that  at  all 
events  hon.  members  will  have  a  full  oppor- 
tunity of  pronouncing  upon  it.  ■ 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL  said  —  Honorable 
gentlemen,  you  may  probably  regard  it  as 
presumptuous  in  one  so  inexperienced  as  1 
am  in  parliamentary  debate,  to  enter  the  lists 
against  the  Hon.  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands,  and  to  venture  to  dispute  the  validity 
of  the  arguments  adduced  by  him  in  his 
eloquent  speech  against  the  auiendment  n^w 


under    consideration  ;  yet, 


great 


as  is   the 


existing  disparity  in  point  of  ability  and  in- 
fluence, I  do  not  shrink  from  the  contest,  for 
I  believe  that  I  have  truth  and  justice  on  my 
side,  and  have  confidence  that  in  its  own 
inherent  power,  the  truth  will  ultimately 
prevail.  I  have  listened  with  delight  to  the 
hon.  gentleman's  address,  and  cordially  con- 
cur with  his  views  on  many  points,  but  there 
are  some  in  which  I  differ,  in  none  more  so 
than  that  which  regards  all  who  support  the 
amendment  of  the  hon.  member  from  the 
Niagara  Division  (Hon.  Mr.  Currie)  as 
insincere,  nay,  even  as  wanting  in  loyalty  to 
the  Crown  and  to  the  country. 

Hon.   Mr.  CAMPBELL— What  I  said 
was  this,  that  I  was  slow  to  believe  in  the 


sincerity  of  those  who  advocated  a  measure 
and  sheltered  themselves  behind  details. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — It  was  more  point- 
edly put  thim  that.  It  was  said  that  the 
terms  of  the  motion  were  such  as  clearly 
showed  that  it  was  mads  simply  for  the 
object  of  defeatirg  the  meisure. 

Hon.  Mr,  CAMPBELL— And  I  repeat 
that  it  is  so.  But  that  is  very  different  from 
what  you  charged  me  with  saying. 

Hon.  Ma.  VIDAL — The  hon.  gentleman 
made  the  remark  that  we  were  not  altering 
the  Constitution,  but  that  the  question  before 
us  was  one  simply  for  an  address  to  the 
Crown  Now,  strictly  speaking,  and  takiug 
the  words  of  the  motion  in  their  mere  literal 
sense,  this  statement  is  correct;  but  I  ask 
hon.  gentlemen  if  it  is  fair  or  candid  to  en- 
deavor to  lead  the  House  to  believe  that  this 
motion,  which  is  undoubtedly  for  an  address, 
is  not  in  effect  for  a  change  in  the  Constitu- 
tion ?  Are  we  not  plainly  told  that  no  Im- 
perial legislation  will  take  place  on  this 
subject  unlesssuehan  Address  as  thisreceives 
the  assent  of  the  Canadian  Legislature?  I 
hold,  therefore,  that  the  motion  befor3  us, 
though  it  be  for  an  Address  to  Her  Majesty, 
is  ia  effect  a  measure,  which  has  for  its  object 
a  change  of  the  Constitution.  Such  being  the 
case,  the  subject  is  one  which  demands  our 
most  careful  coubideratio'j,  and  for  which  we 
ought  to  be  allowed  all  the  time  requisite  to 
the  fullest  and  freest  discussion.  The  changes 
which  have  been  referred  to,  and  with  which 
it  has  been  sought  to  compare  this  change, 
cannot  with  propriety  be  regarded  as  similar. 
I  contend,  in  the  language  of  the  honorable 
gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  Seymour)  who  has 
just  preceded  me,  that  this  is  in  fact  a  revolu- 
tion :  the  word  is  not  too  strong.  So  far  from 
its  being  as  ha.s  been  stated,  a  simple  change, 
like  the  mere  introducing  or  reintroducing 
the  use  of  the  French  language  into  the 
Legislature,  or  even  the  more  important  step 
of  altering  the  constitution  of  this  House,  it 
is  an  entire  alteration  of  our  political  condi- 
tion and  relations,  and  affects  most  deeply 
the  whole  country  in  all  its  varied  interests. 
Whatever  may  be  the  correctness  or  in- 
correctness of  t^e  opinion  of  my  hon.  friend 
as  to  hon.  members  covering  theii-  hostility 
to  the  scheme  of  Confederation  by  objecting 
only  to  its  details,  it  will  not  apply  to  me  ;  I 
shall  take  no  shelter  under  details.  My 
course  in  voting  for  the  amendment  of  the 
hon.  member  for  Niagara  is  ba^ed  on  broad 
and  constitutional  grounds.  I  differ  from 
that  hon.  gentleman  in  regard  to  some  of 


302 


these  details,  and  on  the  whole,  I  am  not 
sure  if  my  views  do  not  more  nearly  coincide 
with  those  of  my  hon.  friend  the  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  am  very  glad 
to  hear  my  hon.  friend  say  so.  I  would 
like  him  also  to  state  if  he  goes  with  the 
hon.  member  for  Niagara  in  desiring  the 
delay  of  a  month  or  delay  for  a  longer  period. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL— That  question  will 
be  fully  answered  when  I  come  to  touch 
upon  thnt  point.  But  I  may  state,  that 
instead  of  oflFering  a  factious  opposition  by 
the  course  I  intend  taking,  it  is  my  loyalty 
to  our  Sovereign  aud  country  which  induces 
me  to  support  the  amendment  now  before 
the  House,  not  with  the  object  of  defeating 
this  measure,  but  for  securing  its  adoption 
on  a  broader  aud  more  permanent  basis. 
How  singular  are  the  different  views  which 
are  taken  of  our  position  and  powers  accord- 
ing to  the  manner  in  which  we  may  vote 
upon  this  question  !  In  one  breath  we  are 
told  that  we  are  the  representatives  of  the 
people,  and  we  have  a  perfect  right  to  vote 
upon  it  as  we  may  see  fit ;  and  in  a  few  minutes 
afterwards,  we  are  informed  that  if  we  do  not 
vote  upon  it  in  a  certain  manner,  we  do  not 
represent  the  people.  I  cannot  possibly 
reconcile  the  two  statements.  It  is  also  said 
— and  it  is  the  only  argument  I  have  heard 
on  the  point — if  indeed  it  can  be  called  an 
argument  at  all — that  it  the  present  oppor- 
tunity of  securing  the  union  of  the  provinces 
is  allowed  to  pass  unimproved,  it  will  be  a 
long  time  before  we  may  look  for  another. 
I  admit  that  the  opportunity  is  one  which 
has  been  long  desired,  and  one  which  it  will 
be  wise  policy  to  improve  ;  and  it  will  be  my 
humble  endeavor  to  seek  to  do  so  to  the  best 
advantage.  But  if  the  measure  is  in  reality 
fraught  with  the  benefits  which  have  been 
claimed  for  it,  I  cannot  see  how  it  will  be 
jeopardized  by  a  littlo  delay ;  because  the 
more  its  benefi's  are  looked  into,  the  better, 
it  is  reasonable  to  suppose,  tlie  people  will 
be  satisfied  with  them.  I  cannot  see  how 
the  measure  will  be  endangered  by  giving 
both  the  people  and  their  representatives  a 
little  longer  time  to  become  acquainted  with 
its  principles  and  its  details.  Since  the 
commencement  of  the  debate  in  this  House, 
much  light  has  been  thrown  on  the  scheme, 
and  we  have  had  the  advantage  of  the 
explanations  in  the  other  Cha  nber,  and  I 
am  sure  that  the  minds  of  hon.  gentlemen 
must  now  be  much  better  informed  on  parti- 


cular points  of  the  scheme  than  they  were 
before  we  came  here.  For  my  own  part, 
after  having  had  my  mind  frequently  direct- 
ed to  it,  and  after  having  lis'ened  attentively 
to  the  arguments  of  all  the  speakers,  I  am 
more  and  more  impressed  with  the  magni- 
tude and  importance  of  the  various  interests 
on  which  our  action  is  invited  in  thi .  mat- 
ter, and  I  think  we  should  proceed  cautiously 
and  slowly  in  taking  the  step  before  us — a 
change  so  great  as  that  contemplated  by  the 
framers  of  these  resolutions — a  change 
amounting  to  nothing  less  than,  as  I  before 
observed,  a  revolution  in  the  whole  system  of 
governing  the  country.  This  is  a  step  which, 
in  order  to  be  permanently  successful,  must 
rest  on  the  principles  of  truth  and  justice, 
and  these  frinciples  must  be  intelligently 
apprehended  by  the  people  to  be  governed. 
Notwithstanding  all  that  h  is  been  advanced 
in  this  chamber — all  the  assertions  which 
have  been  made — in  reference  to  the  inform- 
ation said  to  be  possessed  by  the  people  of 
this  country  relative  to  this  measure,  I  must 
say  that  I  do  not  coincide  in  that  opinion. 
I  believe  that  the  people  of  the  country,  as 
a  whole,  are  not  acquainted  with  the  details. 
What  new  li:;ht  has  there  been  thrown 
on  the  resolutions  since  we  as.sembled  here  ? 
Have  we  not  had  our  attention  directed  to 
the  fact  that  even  some  who  assisted  in 
framing  the  resolutions,  did  not  themselves 
know  precisely  what  some  of  them  meant  ? 
Moreover,  is  it  not  the  fact  that  the  atten- 
tion of  the  country  has  not  to  any  great  ex- 
tent been  called  to  any  arguments  against  the 
scheme/  Now,  in  order  to  a  right  apprecia- 
tion of  the  value  and  importance  of  the 
proposed  Confederation,  it  is  right  that  the 
people  should  ki.ow  and  understand  both 
sides  of  the  question.  They  should  not  be 
carried  away  with  the  pleasing  prospect  held 
out  to  them  of  the  advantages  to  be  derived 
from  lorming  part  of  a  great  (Confederation, 
without  being  told  at  the  same  time  of  the 
cost  at  which  these  advantages  are  to  be 
purchased.  And  this  is  all  the  more  necessary 
because  the  movement  did  not  originate  with 
the  people.  All  great  constitutional  changes 
ought  to  and  usually  do  originate  with 
the  people.  But  this  is  an  anomaly.  Here 
we  have  a  proposed  Constitution  framed  by 
a  self-elected  body — I  do  not  use  the  term 
reproachfully,  because  I  hold  that  these  hon. 
gentlemen  did  perfectly  right  in  so  meeting 
together — this,  1  say,  is  a  Constitution  which 
1  was  not  framed  by  a  body  appointed  for  the 


303 


purpose ;  and  it  is  sent  down  to  us  as  a  per- 
fect document,  which  must  be  regarded  as 
resembling  a  treaty  which  we  have  no  power 
to  alter  even  in  the  smallest  detail. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— My  hon.  friend 
cavils  at  the  question  of  authority.  But  he 
must  know  that  the  Parliament  of  this  country 
had  sanctioned  the  formation  of  a  Govern- 
ment with  the  avowed  intention  of  bringing 
about  Federation  ;  and  therefore  there  was 
authority  for  what  was  done  from  the  people 
of  this  country.  But  my  hon.  friend  is  a  mon- 
archist, and  recognizes  other  sources  of  au- 
thority than  those  vested  in  the  people. 
There  is  the  authority  of  the  Crown  ;  and  Oii 
this  point  I  would  beg  to  refer  him  to  the 
despatch  which  was  received  on  this  subject 
from  the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonies. 
It  says :  "  With  the  sanction  of  the  Crown, 
and  upon  the  invitation  of  the  Governor- 
General,  men  of  every  province,  chosen  by 
the  respective  Lieutenant-Governors,  without 
distinction  of  pf.rty,  assembled  to  consider 
questions  of  the  utmost  interest  to  every  sub- 
ject of  the  Queen,  of  whatever  race  or  faith, 
resident  in  those  provinces,  and  have  arrived 
at  a  conclusion  destined  to  exercise  a  most 
important  influence  upon  the  future  welfare 
of  the  whole  community."  So  here  was  the 
sanction  of  the  Crown  so  far  as  the  action  of 
the  other  provinces  was  concerned ;  whilst 
our  own  Parliament  directly  sanctioned  the 
formation  of  a  Government  having  this  object 
in  view. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — I  have  stated  clearly 
and  emphatically  that  I  was  satisfied  with 
the  formation  of  the  Conference  and  what  it 
did,  so  why  my  hon.  friend  the  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands  should  have  thought 
it  necessary  to  make  the  explanations  he  has 
just  now  done,  I  really  do  not  know.  I 
admitted — I  never  in  the  least  disputed — 
that  the  Conference  was  properly,  legally, 
and  formally  constituted.  I  gave  the  mem- 
bers composing  it  all  praise  for  the  intelli- 
gence and  fidelity  to  the  interests  of  the 
country  with  which  they  carried  on  their 
laborious  negotiations.  But  I  must  still  re- 
iterate my  former  statement,  that  on  account 
of  this  rr.ovement  not  having  emanated  from 
the  people — and  the  fact  of  there  being  no 
petitions  before  either  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lature asking  for  it  establishes  this — we 
ought  before  i.s  adoption  to  have  some  ex- 
pression of  the  views  of  the  people,  and  con- 
sequently that  the  motion  in  amendment 
made  by  my  hon.  friend  the  member  from 
Niagara  is  one  which  I  ought  to  support.    I 


believe,  after  this  debate  has  been  concluded 
in  both  Chambers,  and  the  full  report  of  it 
which  is  being  prepared  has  gone  forth  to 
the  country,  the  people  will  be  in  a  position 
to  form  a  correct  judgment  on  tho  merits  of 
the  case.  They  will  then  have  before  them 
perhaps  all  that  could  be  said  on  one  side  or 
the  other,  and  if  they  cannot  then  form  a 
reliable  judgment,  it  will  be  their  own  fault. 
There  is  no  reason  why  this  House  should 
be  at  the  very  great  expense — some  §2.000 
I  believe — of  printing  so  large  a  number  of 
the  debates  as  is  being  done,  if  the  people 
are  not  to  be  consulted  ;  for  unless  they  are 
to  be  asked  for  a  decision — if  the  scheme  is 
to  be  carried  into  efi"ect  without  consulting 
them — where  is  the  necessity  for  placing  be 
fore  them  speeches  and  arguments  which 
which  will  only  have  the  effect  of  disturbing 
their  minds '(  In  ad  iition  to  saying  that 
the  plan  has  not  emanated  from  the  people,  I 
contend  that  it  has  not  even  emanated  from 
the  representatives  of  the  people.  Had  these 
resolutions  been  framed  by  our  own  Govern- 
ment, brought  down  Tke  other  Government 
measures  into  our  Legislature,  and  there  dis- 
cussed, voted  upon,  and  adopted  by  the  ma- 
jority, I  should  not  think  it  necessary  that 
there  should  be  any  reference  to  tLe  people, 
though  perhaps  I  might  still  think  such  refer- 
ence desirable.  But  the  fact  is  that  the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  people  have  not  been  con- 
sulted in  the  matter;  there  has  been  no  way 
left  open  whereby  they  can  effect  the 
amendment  of  any  objectionable  feature  in 
the  resolutions,  or  influence  the  Imperial 
Legislature  on  the  proposed  union.  I  pre- 
sume honorable  gentlemen  will  concur  with 
me  that  if,  after  all  that  has  been  stated, 
the  country  should  not  desire  the  change — 
if  the  people  at  large  should  think  they  are 
really  paying  too  much  and  making  too  con- 
siderable a  sacrifice  to  secure  the  anticipated 
benefits  of  this  measure — it  ought  not  to  be 
passed.  (Hear.)  Where,  I  would  ask,  is  the 
danger  to  be  apprehended  in  submitting  the 
measure  to  the  country  ?  Danger  is  to  be 
apprehended  from  forcing  upon  the  people  a 
measure  of  which  they  may  not  approve. 
(Hear.)  But  nothing  can  be  endangered  by 
submitted  this  project  to  the  people,  if,  as  has 
been  so  strongly  asserted  and  as  I  believe, 
the  majority  are  in  tiavor  of  it.  If  I  thought 
an  immediate  reference  to  the  people  would 
jeopardise  the  scheme,  perhaps  I  might 
hesitate  in  urging  it^  as  I  now  do — (hear, 
and  laughter) — but  I  believe  its  object  is 
really  one  desired  by  the  country  generally, 


304 


and  there  would  be  no  risk  in  submitting  it. 
Where  is  then  the  danger  of  del;iy  ? — and 
delay  is  all  we  ask  for.  What  struck  me 
very  much  in  the  eloquent  and  able  address 
of  the  Honorable  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands  was,  that  he  never  touched  upon  the 
real  question  of  the  amendment.  It  is  true 
he  said  delays  were  dangerous,  delay  would 
lose  the  measure,  but  not  a  shadow  of  argu- 
ment did  he  advance  in  proof  of  this  view. 
I  think  delay  is  safety,  in  that  it  will  enable 
the  country  and  the  Legislature  to  look  into 
the  scheme,  to  weigh  all  its  advantages  and 
disadvantages,  if  it  has  any,  and  so  more 
certainly  secure  the  passing  of  it  if  good,  and 
the  rejection  of  it  if  the  reverse.  Of  course, 
honorable  gentlemen,  divers  views  majexistas 
to  the  way  in  which  the  opinion  of  the  people 
on  this  question  is  to  be  obtained.  I  am 
not  to  be  deterred  from  expressing  my  views 
by  the  taunt  of  republicanism ;  a  sneer 
tever  disturbs  me  when  I  have  good  ground 
for  what  I  do  or  say.  I  have  had  to  bear 
with  many  a  sneer  on  account  of  my  adhesion 
to  the  temperance  cause,  but  they  never 
moved  me  from  my  course.  My  btlief  is 
tbkt  the  views  of  the  people  may  be  ascer- 
tained without  any  such  delay  as  will  endan- 
ger the  scheme,  it  is  to  be  presumed  that 
the  debate  will  not  extend  beyond  a  week  or 
two,  in  buth  Houses  A  very  short  lime 
after  it  is  concluded,  and  the  pamj.hlLt.>- 
containing  the  speeches  printed,  a  direct 
vote  of  the  people  might  be  taken  with  pro- 
priety and  safety.  The  propositioi;  to  t>ub- 
Biit  the  plan  to  the  vote  of  the  people  seems 
at  the  first  glance  not  to  be  British— our 
prejudices  rise  against  it.  We  are,  however, 
not  to  be  guided  by  prejudices,  but  by 
reason  and  reflection  ;  and  if  wc  can  fiud 
the  best  means  of  clearly  and  satisfactorily 
ascertaining-  what  the  people  wish,  that 
means  ought  to  be  adopted,  call  it  by  what 
name  you  may.  I  think  that  to  put  the 
matter  to  a  direct  vote  in  this  wny  is  the 
best  plan.  The  people  should  be  told  : 
"  Here  is  the  measure  ;  will  you  take  it  or 
will  you  not  ?"  We  should  not  ask  them 
to  discu.ss  amendments;  we  could  not  bring 
the  people  of  all  the  provinces  together  for 
such  a  purpose,  end  if  wo  allowed  amend- 
ments to  be  discussed,  we  should  have 
inextricable  confusion.  The  plain  questi^u 
should  be  proposed  :  Do  you  wish  for  this 
Confederation  or  not — yes  or  no  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  KOSS — xNo  power  to  alter  its 
details  f 


Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL— No.     That   is  the 

way  the  question  is  proposed  to  this  House, 
and  if  it  be  wrong  to  submit  it  thus  to  the 
people,  it  is  also  wrong  to  submit  it  in  such 
a  manner  to  the  Legislature.  (He:ir,  hear.) 
An  additional  motive  for  sujrgevsting  this 
mode  of  proceeding  is,  that  I  should  be 
extremely  unwilling  to  subject  myself  to 
the  censorious  remarks  of  hon.  gentlemen 
in  the  other  Chamber  who  might  reasonably 
say,  if  we  propose  to  have  a  oissolution  and 
a  new  election  on  the  subject,  '  It  is  all 
very  well,  but  you  keep  yuur  seats,  while 
you  send  us  home."  I  do  not  indeed  see 
why  we  might  not  with  great  propriety  wait 
until  the  next  general  election,  when,  after 
two  years  of  reflection  and  di.seussioj,  the 
people  would  be  still  better  able  to  give  an 
intelligent  vote.  I  can  see  no  objection  to 
the  wish  of  the  people  being  thus  ascertained 
in  this  par  excelltnre  constitutional  way ; 
but  as  Uiinisters  tell  us  we  cannot  wait,  then 
I  say,  let  us  rather  have  a  direct  vote  of  the 
people  on  the  scheme  than  precipitate 
a  general  election.  I  should  prefer  a 
dirz^ct  vote  to  a  general  election,  because 
during  an  election  other  influences  are 
at  work  besides  purely  political  ones.  In 
many  places  the  personal  popularity  of  a 
candidate  outweighs  the  political  leaning  of 
the  electors ;  in  others,  a  well-filled  purse 
carries  the  day,  or  some  local  question  pre- 
judices a  constituency  and  influences  the 
minds  of  the  voters.  But  upon  a  scheme 
••-ueh  as  this,  if  submitted  directly  to  the 
country,  nnue  of  these  considerations  would 
h;ive  any  effect,  and  the  electors  would  be 
guided  by  patriotism  alone.  So  that  while 
constitutionally  the  House  represents  the 
will  of  the  people,  and  no  fault  cculd  be 
lound  if  the  House,  after  a  new  election, 
were  to  pass  upon  the  matter,  still  the  object 
desired,  viz.,  to  know  the  desire  of  the 
people,  would  be  more  expeditiously  and  less 
expensively  attained  by  a  direct  vote.  It  is 
of  no  use  to  call  this  method  "  Yankee  " 
or  "  Kepublican."  It  is  well  known  that 
it  prevailed  as  far  back  as  the  days  of  anoient 
Home. 

Hon.  Mr.  LETELLIER  DE  ST.  JUST 
— You  may  call  it  French,  too. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAIj — Ves,  or,  if  you  please, 
you  may  call  it  imperial ;  it  has  been  resorted 
toin  Franceand  in  Mexico.  Itwould  certainly 
in  this  case  be  iair — no  one  could  have  any  ob- 
ject for  tampering  with  the  votes  of  the  peo- 
ple, or  obtaining  u  decision  which  was  not  a 


305 


truthful  expression  of  their  wish.  We  could 
obtain  the  views  of  the  whole  country  in  a 
short  time — perhaps  not  within  one  month, 
but  still  in  time  enough  to  enable  the  mea- 
sure to  be  adopted  within  the  current  year. 
The  Legislature  of  New  Brunswick  is  not  to 
meet  for  some  time  yet;  the  question  therefore 
cannot  be  soon  settled  there  ;  and  if  it  were, 
it  has  still  to  go  home  to  England,  there  to 
be  embodied  in  an  Imperial  enactment  before 
being  acted  upon.  The  Imperial  Parliament 
has  assembled  and  will  probably  continue  in 
session,  as  it  generally  does,  some  five  or  six 
months.  Surely  then  there  will  be  time  to 
take  the  vote  here.  I  should  like  to  have 
some  reason  adduced  to  convince  me  that 
there  is  danger  in  delay.  I  have  heard  an 
indistinct  allusion  to  such  danger  as  being 
great  in  case  war  should  suddenly  come  upon 
us.  Now,  hon.  gentlemen,  I  hold  this  to  be 
an  objection  which  has  no  weight  whatever. 
How  long  will  it  be,  if  we  adopt  the  resolu- 
tions, before  this  scheme  can  be  got  into  ope- 
ration ?  I  presume  it  will  be  twelve  months, 
and  if  we  can  wait  a  twelvemonth,  can  we 
not  wait  two  years  without  risk  ?  For,  what 
immediate  strength  is  the  measure  to  bring 
to  us  ?  The  mere  uniting  together  of  these 
provinces  will  not  give  us  one  additional 
soldier ;  it  will  give  us  no  more  money ; 
neither  will  it  lessen  the  extent  of  frontier  to  be 
defended,  nor  give  us  any  increase  of  military 
power.  As  for  its  placing  all  the  provinces 
under  the  direction  of  one  mind — the  only 
argument  which  I  have  heard  applying  to 
this  part  of  the  question — if  we  were  in  a 
state  of  war  to-day,  the  forces  of  the  whole 
would  be  under  the  direction  of  one  mind. 
Do  we  think  for  one  moment,  that  if  a  hostile 
force  set  foot  on  the  shores  of  Canada,  New 
Brunswick  or  Nova  Scotia,  the  heart  of  the 
Empire  would  not  thrill  with  indignation,  and 
the  whole  force  of  the  Empire  not  be  brought 
to  bear  against  the  foe  who  thus  insulted  and 
defied  the  British  Crown,  just  as  readily  in 
our  isolated  as  it  would  be  in  our  united  con- 
dition ?  I  think  the  danger  from  war  is  one 
on  which  no  argument  against  submitting 
this  measure  to  the  people  can  possibly  be 
based.  (Hear,  hear.)  An  hon.  gentleman 
has  stated  that  the  defences  of  the  country 
must  remain  at  a  stand-still  until  Confede- 
ration is  accomplished.  I  do  not  know  the 
source  from  which  that  opinion  came,  or 
whether  it  was  spoken  by  authority.  If  it 
were,  it  is  certainly  a  startling  announce- 
ment. 

40 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— We  have  certainly 
been  given  to  understand  so,  in  this  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL— I  do  not,  and  cannot 
think  the  British  Government  is  going  to 
leave  us  unprotected  and  undefended,  even 
if  Confederation  should  not  take  place. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— We  may  as- 
sume that  the  preparations  the  Imperial 
Grovernment  may  make  for  the  defence  of 
these  colonies  may  be  materially  affected  by 
the  result  of  our  deliberations  on  this  Con- 
federation scheme — they  may  be  influenced 
by  our  capacity  for  defence,  and  the  willing- 
ness shown  to  exert  ourselves. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — They  may  be  even- 
tually, but  I  am  speaking  of  to-day,  and  I 
am  sure  Her  Majesty's  Government  will 
readily  send  us  to-day  every  assistance  we 
might  need. 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— No  pro- 
gress is  being  made  with  our  defences — the 
whole  question  of  defence  seems  waiting  for 
Confederation — nothing  is  being  done. 
That  fact  must  be  patent  lo  every  honorable 
member  of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — They  may  seem  to 
be  waiting,  but  why  I  cannot  conceive,  for 
every  argument  that  can  be  brought  to  bear 
to  show  that  our  defences  will  progress  under 
Confederation,  can  be  equally  available  for 
that  purpose  now.  (Hear.)  It  has  been 
said  by  the  Hon.  the  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands,  in  reply  to  the  member  from  Niagara, 
that  the  country  has  not  been  taken  by  sur- 
prise by  these  resolutions.  In  this  I  differ 
Irom  him.  It  is  quite  true  that  as  far  as  the 
question  of  union  is  concerned,  it  is  not  new — 
the  thought  of  union  has  long  occupied 
many  minds — but  I  do  contend,  that  with 
reference  to  many  points  comprised  in  the 
scheme,  the  country  has  been  taken  by  sur- 
prise. No  thought,  no  knowledge  whatever 
of  the  character  of  many  of  the  changes 
proposed  to  be  introduced  ever  entered  the 
minds  of  the  people  at  large. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  is  a  satisfac- 
tory surprise.     (Hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — It  may  be  a  satisfac- 
tory surprise ;  I  have  no  doubt  it  is  to 
many.  It  was  a  satisfactory  surprise  to  find 
that  gentlemen  from  all  the  provinces,  of 
different  political  parties,  could  meet  to- 
gether in  such  an  amicable  way,  and  make 
such  mutual  concessions  as  to  enable  this 
scheme  to  be  presented  at  all,  (Hear,  hear.) 
This  is  just  what  ought  to  have  been  done. 
To  represent  me  as  opposed  to  Confederation 


306 


is  a  groat  mistake.  It  is  just  because  I 
appreciate  its  advantages,  and  wish  to  see 
them  secured  without  any  chance  of  danger 
resulting  from  the  scheme  having  been  too 
hastily  adopted,  that  I  speak  as  I  do.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  said  the  people  were  not  appeal- 
ed to  when  the  unions  between  England  and 
Scotland,  and  Great  Britain  and  Ireland,  were 
brought  about.  That  i.s  quite  true,  but  it  is 
equally  true  that  these  unions  were  brought 
about  by  the  Parliaments  of  those  countries 
—  the  representatives  of  the  people.  The 
measures  were  arranged  with  them,  and  the 
people  were  represented  as  to  those  unions 
by  their  Parliaments. 

Hon.  Mr.  IIOSS— That  is  just  what  is 
the  case  here  too. 

Hon,  Mr.  VIDAL — 1  beg  ihe  honorable 
gentleman's  pardon.  If  he  can  find  anything 
in  this  scheme  which  has  emanated  from  the 
Parliament,  it  is  new  to  me.  Are  we  not 
told  that,  if  even  one  amendment  is  passed 
by  Parliament,  it  will  destroy  the  scheme? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS — The  course  taken  here 
is  exactly  that  which  was  adopted  in  Eng- 
land. Negotiations  first,  then  the  submission 
to  Parliaii.ent  of  their  result. 

Hon.  Mr.  FERGUSSON  BLAIR— The 
unions  between  England  and  Ireland,  and 
England  and  Scotland,  were  not  negotiations 
merely;  they  were  treaties;  they  were  called 
treaties — 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSS- 
first,    and    submitted 


-They  were  negotiated 
to    Parliamejt   after- 
wards. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — As  it  is  not  my  in- 
tention to  occupy  tho  time  of  hon.  gentlemen 
on  any  other  occasion  during  the  debate,  I 
shall  venture  to  touch  o  i  another  point,  not 
directly  connected  with  the  amendment  be- 
fore us,  on  which  t  said  a  few  words  when  I 
last  addressed  the  House  on  this  subject. 
We  have  heard  much  about  the  proposed 
new  constitution  of  the  Legislative  Council. 
We  have  been  told  it  was  political  necessity 
that  first  forced  the  elective  system  oa  minds 
that  were  l)y  no  means  enamoured  of  it,  and 
this,  I  think,  has  been  fully  established. 
Now,  it  would  ill  become  me,  as  an  elected 
member,  to  dwell  on  any  merits  or  excel- 
lencies the  elective  system  may  have  possessed 
as  applied  to  this  branch  of  the  Legisla- 
ture— it  is  a  subject  we  can  none  of  us  touch 
upon  with  the  same  freedom  which  wemiglit 
if  we  were  not  ourscslves  elected — but  I  may 
call  the  attention  of  the  House  to  this,  that 
none  of  the  evils  that  were  dreaded,  as  likely 


to  flow  from  the  elective  system,  have  yet 
shown  themselves,  and  I  do  not  think  it  at 
all  reasonable,  much  less  necessary,  that  they 
should  be  anticipated  in  time  to  come.  My 
own  views  were  in  perfect  accord  with  those 
of  hon.  gentlemen  who  protested  against  the 
system  when  it  was  first  introduced.  I  did 
not  then  consider  it  an  improvement,  and 
my  views  have  not  changed  since ;  I  have, 
consequently,  no  porsonal  predilections  for 
an  Elective  Council,  but  far  prefer  a  Chamber 
nominated  by  the  Crown.  But  I  am  not  here 
to  carry  out  only  my  personal  views  or  pre- 
dilections, but  to  guard  the  rights  and  privi- 
leges of  my  constituents;  and  I  would  remind 
hon.  members  that  it  is  one  thing  to  concede  a 
privilege,  but  a  very  difi^erent  thing  to  take  it 
away.  (Hear.)  A  privilege  may  be  con- 
ceded unasked,  but  it  is  a  dangerous  thing 
to  take  it  away  unasked  or  unassented  to. 
(Hear,  hear  )  I  cannot  find  either  that  the 
Canadian  Government  made  any  endeavor  to 
maintain  the  el:ctivc  principle  ;  I  cannot  see 
that  the  nomination  system  was  forced  on 
them  by  the  wishes  of  the  Lower  Provinces. 
It  may  have  been  the  desire  of  some  of  the 
Maritime  Provinces  to  maintain  their  nomi- 
nation system,  but  the  change  in  ours  was 
one  which  obviously  met  the  wishes  of  the 
members  of  this  Government,  and  no  effort 
appears  to  have  been  made  by  them  to  pre- 
serve to  the  people  of  this  country  the  privi- 
lege they  now  enjoy  of  electing  members  of 
this  House.  (Hear.)  I  think,  also,  that 
there  are  objectionable  features  in  certain 
provisions  of  the  scheme  for  which  the 
Caur-dian  Government  are  responsible.  J 
speak  not  as  an  opponent,  but  as  one  of  their 
truest  and  best  friends — one  who  is  desirous 
to  keep  them  from  doing  a  wrong.  It  is  not 
as  an  opponent  to  them  or  to  Confederation 
that  I  support  the  amendment  of  the  hon. 
member  from  Niagara. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— I  think  that  amend- 
ment is  a  rote  of  want  of  confidence. 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL — So  it  has  been  said; 
but  the  assertion  is  not  warranted  by  the 
iacts  of  the  case;  it  is  merely  an  arbitrary 
declaration.  I  cannot  consent  to  be  put  in 
such  a  position  as  I  should  occujiy  if  I 
thought  it  were  not.  It  is  true,  my  hon. 
friends  in  the  Government  may  pay,  "  You 
will  not  do  for  us  if  you  vote  that  way  ;" 
but  1  cannot  sacrifice  my  vie  as  and  vote 
contrary  to  my  convictions,  in  order  to  be 
counted  as  a  friend. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPUELL— My  hon.  friend 


307 


musk  see  that  if  all  our  fi'ieuds  entertained 
the  same  views,  we  could  never  get  our  mea- 
sure throui^h. 

Hon.  jMr.   VIDAL — In   compelling  the 
first  selection  of  legislative  councillors  from 
the  members  of  the  Chamber,  the  Conference 
have  put  a  restraint  on  the  prerogative  of  the 
Crowu  which  they  had   no  right  to  impose. 
I  am  unwilling  for  a  moment  to  suppose  that 
any  low  or  unworthy  motive   actuated   the 
Canadian  delegates,  who  alone  are  respon- 
sible for  this  detail,  or  that  they    iid  this 
in  hopes  of  securing  the  votes  of  any  members 
of  this  House  in  favor  of  their  scheme,  which 
they  could  not  otherwise  have  been  sure  of; 
still  that  part  of  the  scheme  has  an  awkward 
appearance,  and  sox'e  honorable  members  may 
feel  with  the  member  from  Wellington  (Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn),  that  if  it  be  not  a  bribe,  it 
looks  something  very  like  it.     I,  however, 
do  not  see  it  in  that  light.     I  do  not  think 
there  has  been  anything  worse  than  a  desire 
to  make  the  system  of  appointment  palatable 
to  the  people,  by  taking  a  certain  number  of 
their  representatives,  whom  they  theu  sent 
to  this  House,  to  be  members  of  the  new 
one.     (Hear,  hear.)     As  to  the  boasted  im- 
partiality apparent  in  the  14th  ri  solution,  I 
do  not  attach   any  importance   to  its  provi- 
sions.    If  it  were  not  the  understanding  that 
the  selection  would  be  made  in  the  manner 
there  laid  down,  there  would  be  a  strong 
party  opposition  to  the  measure,  which  was 
a  thing  to  be  avoided.     (PI ear,  hear.)     One 
more  subject  connected  with  this  part  of  the 
scheme  remains  for  me  to   speak  on,  and  I 
think  it  is  an  important  one.     Twenty-one 
members  of  this  Honorable  House  are  to  be 
dismissed.     It  is  quite  true  we  do  not  know 
who  they  may  be. 

A  VOICE— Ballot  for  them. 
Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL  —lam  not  speaking  of 
the  mode  of  selection.  (Hear,  hear.) — 
Twenty-one  members  of  this  Legislative 
Council  are  to  be  to!d  that  they  are  no 
longer  wanted.  Arc  they  to  be  those  called 
by  Her  Majesty  in  former  times  to  sit  here, 
or  those  representing  the  people?  It  seems 
to  me  only  fair  that  those  who  hold  appoint- 
ments from  the  Crown  for  life  are  entitled  to 
retain  their  seats,  to  go  first  into  the  new 
House,  and  the  rejection  will  then  be  of  the 
elected  members.  It  will  involve  nearly  half 
of  these,  and  it  is  quite  obvious  that  it  places 
all  honorable  members  of  this  Chamber  in  a 
very  anomalous  position  to  be  called  upon  to 
Wpt9  OQ  such  a  question  as  this.      I  may 


yea. 


remark  that  it  would   have  been  much  the 
wiser  plan,  and  certainly  much  more  conge- 
nial to  the  feelings  of  the  members  of  this 
House,  had   the  Government  thought  fit  to 
have  passed  these  resolutions  in  the  Legisla- 
tive Assembly  first,  and  then,  if  those  who 
are  more   especially  representatives    of  the 
people   had   chosen  to  pass  this  clause,  we 
should  have  felt  less  hesitation.     As  it  is,  I 
feel  it  to  be  my  duty  to  the  constituency   I 
represent  to  lift  my  voice  against  it.     I  have 
no  right,  without  their  consent,  to  vote  away 
from  them  a  right  they  may  cherish,  a  fran- 
chise they  may  value,  even  though  I  should 
thereby  vote  myself  in  for  life,  which  would 
be  a  betrayal  of  my  trust.     Even  my  hon. 
friend  from  Saugeen — so  recently  sent  here 
as  the  representative  of  that  divisicn — must 
admit  that  a  great  many  of  his  constituents 
would   vote    "  nay,"     if    they   thought   the 
scheme  of  Confederation  was  to  be  purchased 
at    the    sacrifice    of    their    representative. 
(Hear,  and  a  laugh.) 

Hon.  Mr.  MACPHERSON— I  believe  a 
large  majority  of  them  would  vote 
(Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  VIDAL— There  h  a  difference 
of  opinion  between  my  honorable  friend  and 
myself  on  this  point.     (Hear,  hear.)     Hon- 
orable gentlemen,  I  have  said  I  am  favorable 
to  the  scheme  of    uuion — I  say  it  sincerely 
and     honestly — and     notwithstanding     the 
Honorable  Commissioner  of  Crown   Lands 
may  say  ^'It  cannot  be  so;  by  supporting  the 
amendment  you  are  destroying  the  scheme," 
I  cannot  see  it  so.     My  course,  I  think,  is 
that  which  is  most  conducive  to  the  success 
of  the  scheme.     I  con.sider  myself  one  of  its 
best  and  most  faithful  friends  in  seeking  to 
have  it  more  firmly  based  upon  the  approval 
of  the  people,  at  the  cost  of  a  trifling  delay. 
A  great  deal  has  been  said,  as  an  introduction 
to  this  measure,  that  was  unworthy  of  it. 
We  have  had  long  accounts  of  political  and 
party  difficulties,  which  have  been  spoken  of 
as  appertaining  to  it.     These  were  too  small 
matters   to  have   led  to  this  great   constitu- 
tional  change.     It  was  clearly  seen   by  the 
people,  as  well  as  by  Her  Majesty's  represen- 
tative, that  these  difficulties  were  not  based 
upon  what  they  were  said  to  be  by  some  of 
our  politicians.     What  does  His  Excellency 
say   in    a    memorandum    to   the    Executive 
Council,  communicated  to  this  House  on  the 
30th  of  June  last? — ■'•  During  this  period, 
(of  the  late  sucoessive  governments  since  the 
election  of  1861,)  no  question  iovoIviDg  any 


308 


great  principle  or  calculated  to  prevent  poli- 
ticians, on  public  grounds,  from  acting  in 
concert,  has  been  raised  in  Parliament.  The 
time  had  arrived  when  an  appeal  might,  with 
propriety,  be  made  to  the  patriotism  of  gen- 
tlemen on  both  sides  of  the  House  to  throw 
aside" — what?  Their  party  measures  ?  their 
political  interests?  No — "  their  personal  dif- 
ferences !  and  to  unite  in  one  endeavor  to 
advance  the  great  interests  of  the  country." 
A  little  further  on  he  again  mentions  '-the 
absence  of  public  grounds  for  antagonism 
between  them,"  and  intimates  plainly  that 
"  such  a  state  of  things  was  very  prejudicial 
to  the  best  interests  of  the  province."  As 
I  have  already  stated,  the  people  were 
rapidly  coming  to  the  same  conclusion,  and 
this  evil  would  soon  have  been  removed  by 
their  action  at  the  elections,  without  resort- 
ing to  any  change  in  the  Constitution. — 
Such  were  His  Excellency's  views,  commu- 
nicated to  his  Council  in  a  memorandum, 
and  I  rejoiced  to  hear  them  enunciated  by 
him.  They  are  views  which,  if  held  also 
by  the  people,  would  have  led  to  a  thorough 
cure  for  the  evils  under  which  we  labored, 
even  without  resorting  to  Confederation,  for 
the  people  themselves  were  beginning  to 
see  that  their  politic;\l  leaders  were  too  much 
under  the  influence  of  bitter  personal  feel- 
ings ;  prominence  was  no  longer  given  to  the 
constitutional  difficulty  of  unequal  represent- 
ation ;  it  was  dropped  both  by  its  friends 
and  its  opponents.  Yet  representation  by 
population  was  a  question  of  such  political 
importance,  that  its  satisfactory  solution 
would  justify  the  bringing  about  such  a 
change  as  this.  That  was  a  sufficient  motive 
to  induce  statesmen  to  join  together  and  .seek 
some  way  of  escape  from  it.  I  think  the 
scheme  now  submitted  is  perhaps  the  best 
that  could  have  been  found  attainable,  and  I 
give  its  framers  all  credit  for  it.  I  am  satis- 
fied with  nine-tenths  or  perhaps  more  than 
nine-tenths  of  the  whole,  and  I  am  willing 
to  take  the  other  tenth,  if  really  necessary, 
for  the  sake  of  the  rest.  I  think  the  very 
name,  and  the  prestige  of  our  larger  union 
will  have  a  desirable  influence  upon  our  future 
prosperity.  It  will  infuse  into  us  that  feeling 
of  national  pride — those  patriotic  sentiments 
connected  with  our  country,  Avhich  it  is  worth 
much  to  possess.  (Hear.)  T  think, also,  that 
our  credit  in  money  matters  will  be  improved 
by  the  unioc,  und  it  is  worth  some  Faerifioe  to 
accomplish  such  results.  I  believe,  further, 
that  when  this  Rchemo  is  oompleted  it  will 


have  the  effect  of  attracting  emigration,  and 
thus  adding  largely  to  our  population.  As 
we  are,  in  our  presented  isolated  condition, 
we  either  fail  to  attract  emigrants  or  do 
not  manage  to  retain  them  ;  but  if  we  were 
known  as  one  great  country,  we  should  find 
hoaies  for  many  of  those  able-bodied,  enter- 
prising and  industrious  men  who  constitute  the 
great  strength  and  wealth  of  a  State.  It  would 
also,  undoubtedly,  promote  our  commerce  and 
develope  our  trade  and  resources.  It  is  well 
to  weigh  all  these  considerations;  they  may 
not  promise  advantages  so  great  as  some  of 
the  sanguine  advocates  of  the  measure  pre- 
dict, but  they  are  well  entitled  to  fair  and 
honest  consideration.  (Hear.)  As  to  Con- 
federation cheapening  our  government,  that 
idea,  I  think,  is  a  fallacy ;  and  here  is  one  of 
the  causes  which  may  lead  to  future  dissatis- 
faction, if  the  eyes  of  the  people  are  not 
opened  t5  it  until  too  late.  The  proper  and 
the  true  way  to  act  is  to  let  the  fact  be 
known,  that  so  far  from  Confederation  being 
likely  to  lessen  the  expenses  of  government, 
it  will  be  directly  the  reverse,  and  that  to 
these  must  be  added  the  cost  of  those 
defences  which  are  to  be  constructed — of 
this  Intercolonial  road  which  is  to  be  a 
necessary  part  of  the  scheme — of  these 
other  works  on  the  canals,  &c.,  we  hear  so 
much  about.  Confederation  will,  doubtless, 
be  expensive  ;  then  why  not  say  so — why  not 
say  to  the  people,  "  Here  are  great  advan- 
tages, but  they  will  inevitably  cost  a  large 
sum."  I  for  one  am  willing  to  take  these 
advantages  at  that  cost.  I  have-not  analyzed 
the  numerous  figures  set  before  us  by  my 
hon.  friend  from  Niagara,  for  profusion  and 
confusion  in  matters  of  figures  in  a  speech 
are  very  much  the  same  to  me.  I  will  not 
pretend  to  follow  him.  But  I  have  such 
confidence  in  the  financial  ability  of  tho«o 
who-  watched  over  our  interests,  that  I  am 
unwilling  to  receive,  except  with  great  cau- 
tion, those  objections  brought  in  figures 
against  the  measure.  One  honorable  gentle- 
man remarked  that  the  hand  of  an  over- 
ruling Providence  might  be  observed  as 
bringing  about  this  scheme  and  reconciling 
so  many  conflicting  influences.  That  is 
very  true.  I  delight  to  recognize  an  over- 
ruling Providence  influencing  the  lives  of 
individuals  and  nations.  I  rejoice  that 
the  bles.sing  of  un  over-ruling  Providence 
on  the  deliberations  of  thit^  House  is  daily 
asked,  and  I  have  fiuth  to  believe  it  will 
be  granted    to  us-      But  I   should    h»ve 


309 


the  same  comfortable  feeling  if  the  question 
were  referred  to  the  people;  so  that  as  an 
argument  in  favor  of  our  making  an  imme- 
diate decision  does  not  amount  to  much,  and 
it  certainly  does  not  impose  on  us  the  duty 
of  hastily  taking  the  whole  scheme  as  it  is. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  have  endeavoured,  hon. 
gentlemen,  to  show  that  I  am  guided  by  an 
honest,  earnest  desire  to  advance  the  interests 
of  the  country  by  the  course  I  now  propose 
to  take  in  reference  to  this  amendment,  and 
I  have  endeavored  to  disabuse  the  minds  of 
those  who  think  that  in  supporting  it  I  am 
acting  in  hostility  to  a  scheme  which  I 
believe  will  be  advantageous  to  the  country, 
but  the  advantages  of  which  I  think  cannot 
be  secured  without  referring  it  to  the  people. 
I  presume  it  is  altogether  likely — perhaps  I 
may  consider  it  a  certainty — that  this  is  to 
be  the  last  time  I  shall  appear  as  a  represen- 
tative in  the  Council  of  my  country.  I  am 
anxious,  short  as  my  parliamentary  career 
lias  been  and  is  probably  destined  to  be,  that 
it  should  be  unsullied  by  anything  that  can 
even  have  the  appearance  of  selfishness.  I 
am,  therefore,  unwilling  to  record  a  vote 
which  might  either  have  the  eifectof  making 
me  a  member  for  life,  or  of  helping  to  take 
away  the  privilege  which  my  constituents  at 
present  enjoy,  of  having  a  representative  in 
the  Legislative  Council.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BUREAU — It  is  not  my  in- 
tention to  take  part  in  the  debate  on  the 
amendment  which  is  now  engaging  the  atten- 
tion of  this  Honorable  House;  but  I  really 
do  not  feel  justified  in  passing  over  in  silence 
the  declaration  which  has  just  been  made  by 
the  hon.  member  for  Toronto  (Hun.  Mr. 
Ross.)  That  gentleman  said,  with  perfect 
naivete,  that  if  the  Ministry  submitted  a  bill 
respecting  the  organization  of  the  local 
governments,  the  course  would  be  a  bad  one  ; 
for,  said  he,  difficulties  would  probably  arise 
in  relation  to  the  matter,  which  might  result 
in  the  resignation  of  several  members  of  the 
present  Cabinet.  In  those  few  words  the 
hon.  member  for  Toronto  has  furnished  the 
best  argument  in  favor  of  the  delay  for  which 
we  ask  ;  but  such  was  not  his  intention.  In 
a  similar  sense,  some  other  hon.  members 
have,  in  my  opinion,  exhibited  a  degree  of 
force  and  logic  which  is  truly  remarkable. 
But  can  it  be  possible  to  make  a  request 
more  essentially  legitimate  in  its  character 
thafi  that  of  the  hon-  member  for  Niagara  ? 
Tor  my  pait,  I  do  not  think  sq,  And  indeed, 
what  oaa  fee  more  yeasonabls  than  tbo  wish 


to  know,  and  to  be  in  a  position  to  form  a 
sound,  complete  and  satisfactory  opinion,  both 
for  ourselves  and  for  our  constituents,  res- 
pecting the  scheme  which  is  proposed  to  us  ? 
Has  not  this  House  a  right  to  require  the 
present  Government,   within    a    reasontible 
period,  to  lay  before  it,  not  only  in  a  general 
way,  but  also  and  more  especially  in  detail, 
the  various  aspects  of  the  Constitution  which 
it  is  wished  to  have  voted  with  such  strange 
and  imprudent  precipitation  ?     Let  us  re- 
member that   sometimes  no  difficulty  what- 
ever is  raised  to  devoting  an  entire  session 
to  the  consideration  of  a  measure  of  second- 
aiy  importance.     Last  year  no  attempt  was 
made  to  pass  a  new  Militia  Bill  at  railroad 
speed,  as  it  is  now  proposed  to  do  with  the 
measure  for  Confederation;  on  the  conti-ary, 
all  the  time  necessary  to  complete  it  and  to 
examine  it  in  all  its  aspects  was  devoted  to 
its  consideration.     And  yet,  how  immense 
the  difference  between   these  two  measures, 
in  regard  to  their  importance  and  the  solemn 
consequences  which  might  result  from  them  I 
And  further,  it  cannot  be  denied,  the  plan 
which  it  is  sought  to  make  us  adopt  is  as  yet 
but  imperfectly  known  to  the  Canadian  Le- 
gislature, and  the   people  hardly  know  its 
outlines,  not  having  yet  had  time  to  examine 
into  it,  so  closely  have  our  ministers  invested 
it  with  mystery  and  secrecy.  I  consider  that 
the  hon.  member  for  Toronto  shewed  rather 
too  much  zeal  in   the  cause  of  his  friends 
when  he  proceeded  to  make  that  declaration, 
which  was  heard  by  the  House  with  well- 
marked  surprise.     I  am  prepared  to  acknow- 
ledge that  in  so  doing  he  has  done  us  a  very 
great  service.     I  have  no  doubt  whatever, 
in  fact,  that  as  we  have  been   told  by  the 
hon.  gentleman,  the  disclosing  of  the  organ- 
ization of  the  local  governments  during  this 
phase  of  the  discussion  would,  for  the  Admi- 
nistration of  the  day,  be  an  act  of  imprudence, 
and  one  which,  it  is  highly  probable,  would 
subject  it  to  serious  difficulties.     I  am  also 
of  opinion  that  one  of  the  difficulties,  of  by 
no  means  the  least  importance,  which  is  feared 
is  that  respecting  the  distribution  or  division 
of  the  part  of  the  public  debt  which  will  have 
to  be  borne  by  the  different  provinces.  Indeed 
it    may,  with  very  great  reason,  be  asked 
whether  it  will  be  possible  to  come  to  an  un- 
derstanding on  this  point.     With   a  degree 
of  courage   worthy  of  a   better   cause,   the 
Ministry  now  comes  to  us  and  says  :    '^  First 
vote  the  Address,  and  afterwards  we  will  lay 
before  you  the  scheme  for  the  organisatiou 


310 


of  the  local  governments.''     But  let  us  note 
the  coDtradictioQ  in  this  on  the  part  of  the 
Government,  and  how  illogical  its  conduct  is. 
Let  us  for  a  moment  suppose  that  this  meas- 
ure gives  rise  to  difficulties  in   the  Cabinet, 
during  the  discussion  en  the  details  of  the 
scheme,  of  sufficient  importance  to  entail  the 
resignation  of  the  Administration.       What 
happens  ?     The  Address  having  been  voted 
by  our  Legislature,  is  sent  to  England,  and 
whilst  the  Imperial  Government  is  engaged 
in  ratifying  it  and  incorporating  it  in  a  bill, 
which   is  to  become   our  Constitution,  the 
present  Ministry  succumbs  under  the  details 
of  the  scheme  respecting  the  local   govern- 
ments.    A  new  ministry  succeeds  them,  an 
appeal  to  the  people  probably  takes  place  in 
the  interval,  and  when  the  new  Constitution 
comes  to  us  from   Great   Britain,  we  have  a 
Government  and  a  Legislature  ready  to  reject 
it  before  its  promulgation.    In  view  of  such  a 
pro.spect  as  this,  ought  we  to  be  in  a  hurry  to 
acc.de  to  the  request  of  the  Government  and 
refuse  the  legitimate  delay  asked  for  by  the 
motion  now  before  this  Honorable  House?    I 
have,  then,  considered  that  I  ought  not  to 
pass  over  in  silence  the  declaration  of  the 
hon.  member  for  Toronto,  for  I  am  of  opinion 
that  it  is  of  a  nature  to  convince  us  that  pre- 
cipitation in  so  highly  solemn    a  matter  is 
most   dangerous.      The  Constitution    of    a 
country  should  not  be  changed  from  base  to 
summit   until  those  who  are   appointed  to 
watch  over  the  public  interests,  and  the  very 
Constitution  in  question,  have  had  time  to  see 
and  to  ascertain,  in  a  positive  manner,  that 
such  a  change  is  necessary  and  called  for  by 
the  people.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mil.  OLIVIER— Honorable  gen- 
tlemen, in  again  rising  to  address  the 
Ilouie,  I  beg  to  assure  you  that  I  do  not 
propose  to  repeat  the  observations  I  have 
already  rcade  on  a  previous  occasion ;  but 
being  pressed  for  time,  I  was  obliged  to  omit 
to  refer  to  certain  aspects  of  the  scheme  on 
which  I  proposed  to  offer  a  few  remarks 
when  the  present  motion  should  be  before 
the  House.  I  was  aviare  that  this  motion 
would  come  up  for  discussion,  as  it  appeared 
upon  our  Mnud(s  of  ProcceiUnijs.  With 
these  few  preliminary  observation :i  I  shall 
proceed,  honorable  gentlemen,  to  offer  a  few 
remarks  on  some  few  points  in  the  scheme 
which  I  wns  compelled  to  pas.s  over  in 
silence  on  the  occasion  of  my  first  address 
on  tbo  plan  of  Confederation  now  submitted 


for   our   consideration.     I  must   refer  here, 
honorable  gentlemen,  to  a  wonderful  incident 
of  this  afternoon's   sitting.     A   declaration, 
novel  in  every  respect  to  each  oce  of  us,  fell 
from  the  lips  of  the  Honorable  the  Minister 
of  Crown  Lands,  who  has  only  had  this  one 
sole  reason  to  offer  us  in  explanation  of,  and 
excuse  for,  the  precipitate  haste  with  which 
his  Government  is  endeavoring  to  obtain  the 
adoption  of  the  new  Ccnstitution : — "  We  are 
anxious  to  obtain  the  vote  of  this  House,  to 
transmit  it  to  New  Brunswick  and  to  the  other 
Maritime  Provinces  which  are  to  enter  into 
the  Confederation."    This,  then,  is  the  real 
reason  of  this  incomprehensible  and  indecent 
haste,  for  I  cannot  believe  that  the  reason 
given  by  the  hon.  member  who  sits  immedi- 
ately opposite  to  me(SirN.  F.  Belleau),  in 
explanation  of-this  haste,  can  be  a  serious  one. 
It  is  difficult,  indeed,  not  to  consider  as  soue- 
what  absurd  the  reason  alleged  by  the  Hon. 
Sir  N.  F.  Belleau: — "The  Ministry  are 
anxious  that  this  scheme  should  be  adopted 
forthwith,   because     Lord    Palmerston  is 
already  an   old  man,  and  might  die  at  any 
moment."    I  would  rather  accept  the  reason 
given  by  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Crown  Lands 
than  that  of  my  honorable  friend,  because 
I  cannot  believe  he  was   authorized  to  give 
it.     Thus  this  House  and  the   country  now 
know  the  secret  of  this  precipitate  haste  on 
the  part  of  the  Government,  and  I  have  no 
doubt  they  will  bear  it  in  mind.     But  I  will 
venture  to  enquire   of  the    Honorable   the 
Minister  of  Crown  Lands,  who  has  given  us 
this  very  absurd  reason,  whether  he  hopes 
to  deceive  the  people  of  the  Lower  Provinces 
by  the  vote  which  he  desires  to  precipitate. 
I  will  ask  him    whether  it  is  to  be  desired 
that  this  House  should  lovthwith  give  a  vote 
on  this  question,  a  vote  which  will  undoubt- 
edly have  the  effect  of  fading  them  into 
error  as  regards  the  feelings  and  opinions  of 
the  people  of  this  country  in  relation  to  the 
project  of  Confederation.     Well,  honorable 
gentlemen,  I  do  not  for  one  moment  hesitate 
to  declare  to  this  llouf-o,   that  the  fact  alone 
of  the  anxiety  of  the  (iovernment  to  obtain 
forthwith  a  vote  of  this    House  on   this  im- 
portant measure,  is   that  which   ought  most 
of  all  to  put  us  on  our  guard,  and  ought  to 
cause  us  to  determine  not  to  give  it  lightly, 
and  in  a  manner  unworthy   uf  prudent  and 
wise    legislators.      indeed,  houcrable   gen- 
tlemen, our   vote  will   have  a   signidcanco 
which  it  will  be  vain  to  seek  to  diminish. 


311 


We  constitute  the  highest  branch  of  the 
Parliament  of  this  country,  and  when  the 
Lower  Provinces  hear  that  we  have  voted  for 
this  measure  in  the  shape  in  which  it  has  been 
laid  before  us,  they  will  naturally  and  with 
reason  believe  that  our  vote  has  been  given 
with  a  thorough  knowledge  of  the  matter,  and 
that  we  fully  indicate  the  popular  feeling  on 
this  important  question.  They  will  never 
for  a  moment  imagine  that  we  have  set  at 
naught  and  ignored  the  opinions  of  those 
whom  we  represent  in  this  House  ;  they  will 
never  believe  that  fhe  country  has  been  solittle 
consulted  in  the  matter  as  it  in  fact  has  been. 
I  assert,  therefore,  honorable  gentlemen,  that 
the  vote  which  it  is  sought  to  make  us  give 
to-day  is  calculated  to  deceive  the  people  of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  both  as  to  the  views 
of  this  Honorable  House  and  as  to  the 
opinions  of  the  vast  majority  of  the  people  of 
this  province,  and  that  we  cannot  give  it  with 
satisfaction  either  to  ourselves  or  to  those 
whom  we  represent.  I  have  already  taken 
occasion  to  state  before  to-day,  that  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  had  not  been  sub- 
mitted to  us  complete.  I  am  prepared  to 
prove  this  statement ;  I  maintain  that  only 
one  part  of  the  scheme  has  been  laid  before 
us,  and  under  these  circumstances,  I  would 
ask  this  Honorable  House,  if  it  is  prudent  to 
accept  and  sanction  that  with  which  we  are  but 
imperfectly  acquainted  ?  When  I  accepted 
from  my  constituents  their  nomination  to 
the  Legislative  Council,  I  did  so  with  the 
firm  determination  never  to  accept  blindly 
the  various  measures  which  might  be  sub- 
mitted for  my  approval  in  this  House.  This 
resolution  I  have  adhered  to  hitherto,  and  I 
hope  that  I  shall  never  forget  it  in  the  course 
of  my  public  career.  A  few  minutes  ago  I 
remarked,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  the 
plan  of  Confederation  had  not  been  sub- 
mitted to  us  complete;  I  now  propose  to 
prove  this  assertion.  By  art.  6  of  the  43rd  res- 
olution, we  perceive  that  the  local  legislatures 
will  have  the  power  of  making  laws  in  relation 
to  education,  saving,  however,  the  rights  and 
privileges  enjoyed  by  the  Catholic  and  Pro- 
testant minorities  in  relation  to  their  separ- 
ate schools  at  the  time  of  the  union ;  so 
that  by  this  resolution  we  are  to  affirm  that 
the  minorities  shall  be  bound  by  the  school 
laws  which  will  be  i<i  force  at  the  moment 
when  Confederation  will  take  effect.  On 
the  other  hand,  we  are  told  that  a  measure 
will  be  brought  down  for  the  better  protec- 
tiou  of  the  rights  of  the  Protestant  minority 


in  Lower  Canada,  whilst  at  the  same  time 
we  are  not  informed  whether  the  same  ad- 
vantages will  bo  accorded  to  the  Catholic 
minority  in  Upper  Canada.  Thus  these 
school  laws  form  a  portion  of  the  scheme 
upon  which  we  are  called  to  vote,  and  if 
unfortunately,  after  we  have  adopted  these 
resolutions  we  are  unable  to  obtain  jus- 
tice for  the  Upper  Canadian  minority, 
shall  we  not  be  guilty  of  having  voted  for  the 
scheme  without  having  known  all  about  it? 
We  ought  then  to  be  on  our  guard.  If,  as 
it  is  pretended,  the  measure  will  not  endanger 
the  rights  of  the  Catholic  minority  in  Upper 
Canada,  why  are  we  refused  the  details  and 
the  information  which  we  ask  to  have 
afforded  to  us  before  pronouncing  on  the 
merits  of  the  plan  ?  I  maintain  that  any  one 
who  desires  that  justice  should  be  extended 
to  the  minorities  in  question,  would  not 
know  how  to  vote  as  we  are  called  upon  to 
do.  In  the  absence  of  the  information  which 
we  are  entitled  to  demand  from  the  Govern- 
ment as  to  the  nature  ot  the  guarantees  to  be 
offered  by  the  new  Constitution  to  the 
minorities  of  the  two  provinces  of  Canada, 
I  do  not  for  one  instant  hesitate  to  declare 
that  this  Honorable  House  is  justified,  and 
indeed  fulfils  a  sacred  duty  in  demanding  the 
delay  sought  for  by  the  motion  of  the  hoa. 
member  for  Niagara.  If  it  should  so  happen 
that  the  people  are  called  upon  t-)  pronounce 
on  the  merits  of  the  measure,  it  becomes  of 
the  utmost  necessity  that  we,  their  representa- 
tives, should  be  able  to  explain  and  point 
out  to  them  the  details  of  the  scheme.  We 
have  then  every  reason  to  insist  that  this 
information  should  be  supplied  to  us.  The 
Premier  will  now  permit  me  to  put  to  him  a 
question.  May  it  not  happen,  after  the  adop- 
tion of  these  resolutions,  that  the  Protestant 
majority  of  Upper  Canada  may  ally  itselP 
with  the  Protestant  minority  of  Lower 
Canada  in  the  present  Parliament,  and  de-' 
prive  the  Catholic  majority  of  Upper  Canada 
of  the  rights  which  they  are  entitled  to 
enjoy  in  relation  to  the  education  of  their 
children  ?  Should  such  an  event  occur,  I 
would  ask  the  hon.  Premier  what  means 
the  aggrieved  minority  might  be  able  to 
adopt  in  order  to  obtain  justica  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— I  will  inform 
you  when  the  proper  time  comes. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— The  hon.  the 
Premier  ought  to  give  us  the  details  of  the 
measure  on  this  subject.  I  do  not  mean  to 
assert  that  I  am  opposed  to  every  possible 


312 


form  of  Confederation  ;  but  what  I  can  never 
consent  to  is  to  vote  for  a  Confederation  of 
which  I  know  neither  the  exact  nature  nor 
the  details.  The  article  which  I  have  already 
quoted  is  one  of  those  to  which  I  desired 
more  particularly  to  draw  attention.  I  will 
now  quote  the  67th  resolution.  I  find  by 
this  resolution  "  that  the  General  Government 
will  fulfil  all  engagements  entered  into,  pre- 
vious to  the  union,  with  the  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment, for  the  defence  of  the  country." 
Now,  strange  to  say,  the  authors  of  this  docu- 
ment do  not  even  take  the  trouble  to  slate  by 
whom  such  engagements  must  be  made.  No, 
they  simply  assert  the  obligation  in  the  terms 
of  the  resolution  I  have  just  quoted.  Sup- 
pose our  Government  had  entered  into  an 
engagement  to  the  extent  of  fifty  millions 
of  dollars,  shall  we — can  we — afiirm  that  the 
engagement  was  a  necessary  one,  by  voting 
for  the  measure  without  knowing  the  nature 
of  the  engagement  ?  Coming  now  to  the 
68th  resolution,  I  find  :  "  The  General  Gov- 
ernment will  cause  to  be  completed,  without 
delay,  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  from 
Riviere  du  Loup,  through  New  Brunswick, 
to  Truro,  in  Nova  Scotia."  Now,  hon. 
gentlemen,  I  maintain  that  this  is  another 
portion  of  the  plan  with  which  wc  arc  not 
acquainted.  We  do  not  know  what  is  to  be 
the  cost  of  this  railway  thus  described  in 
the  resolution  I  have  just  read.  Here, 
again,  wc  are  kept  in  the  most  complete 
ignorance  by  the  present  Government.  An 
honorable  member  of  this  House  has  declared, 
that  though  the  Intercolonial  Railway  were 
to  cost  fifty  millions  of  dollars,  wc  should  not 
hesitate  to  support  a  measure  for  carrying  it 
out;  for,  even  at  that  price — that  exorbi- 
tant price — it  would  be  for  the  interests 
of  the  country.  ^N'^ell,  I  ask  you,  would  this 
House  be  acting  in  accordance  with  Lhat 
spirit  of  wisdom  and  prudence  which  ought 
to  characterize  it,  by  voting  blindly  for  such 
an  enormous  expenditure  as  that  ?  I  do  not 
believe  it,  and  for  my  part,  I  do  not  hesitate 
an  instant  to  say  that  I  would  refuse.  I  am 
well  aware,  it  is  true,  that  the  construction 
of  tins  gigantic  railway  cannot  cost  so  large 
a  sun  ;  but  it  is  generally  admitted,  both  in 
this  IlouHC  and  out  of  it,  that  the  work 
cannot  be  done  for  less  than  twenty  millions. 
Moreover,  does  it  not  often  happen  that 
public  works  estimated  to  cost,  say  one 
111  11  lion  of  dollars^  arc  found  to  have  cost, 
when  finished,  double  and  more  than  double 
that  amount  l*     This  may  happen  with  the 


IntercDlonial  Railway,  which,  it  is  perfectly 
clear,  will  cost  more  than  is  supposed  ; 
and  I  repeat  it,  this  House  ought  to  hesitate 
before  sanctioning  such  an  enormous  expen- 
diture out  of  a  public  treasury  already 
heavily  charged,  and  which  will  scarcely  be 
in  a  more  flourishing  position  when  the 
various  British  provinces  of  this  continent 
are  united  under  the  Confederation.  I  am 
justified,  then,  in  demanding  that  the  details 
of  the  plan  should  be  made  known  to  us 
before  we  are  called  upon  to  sanction  it.  I 
have  already  stated  that  I  do  not  pretend  to 
be  opposed  to  Federation  of  the  provinces  in 
every  possible  shape — that  I  might  support 
a  Confederation  not  of  too  onerous  a  charac- 
ter for  this  country — but  it  is  obviously 
quite  impossible  for  me  to  support  a  project 
of  this  kind,  with  which  I  am  unacquainted, 
in  its  details  and  as  a  whole.  It  appears  to 
me  that  the  Ministry  cannot  complain  if, 
under  these  circumstances,  we  vote  against  a 
project  which  we  desired  to  know  fully  in 
order  to  form  our  opinions  concerning  it, 
and  to  ascertain  that  of  the  people  we  repre- 
sent. I  do  not  think  it  can  be  pretended 
that  this  House  is  not  entitled  to  make  so  just 
and  reasonable  a  request.  As  I  have  shown, 
hon.  gentlemen,  if  we  accept  the  resolutions 
presented  to  us,  we  endanger  the  rights  of 
the  minorities  in  both  sections  of  the  pro- 
vince;  we  expose  ourselves  to  the  payment 
of  enormous  sums  for  the  construction  of 
a  railway  which  may  prove  to  be  utterly 
useless  for  the  defence  of  the  country. 
It  seems  to  me  that,  before  undertaking 
such  onerous  charges,  we  ought  to  re- 
flect deeply  and  to  weigh  well  all  pos- 
sible chances  of  such  serious  evcntua'ities. 
I  am  quite  aware  that  certain  hon.  members 
of  this  House  will  never  yield  to  the  reasons 
I  have  advanced,  nor  shall  I  undertake  to 
bring  them  round  to  my  views,  for  I  feel 
that  all  my  efforts  must  be  useless.  The 
fact  that  we  refuse  to  accept  the  monsuro 
proposed  to  usbelore  weai'c  acquainted  with 
it,  certainly  does  not  imply,  as  it  is  stated 
and  supposed,  that  we  are  opposed  to  every 
idea  of  Confederation.  Another  provision 
of  the  project  which  wc  cannot  approve  is 
that  by  which  the  constitution  of  the  Ijegis- 
lativc  Council  is  based  on  the  nominative 
principle,  instead  of  tlie  elective  principle 
which  now  prevails,  as  regards  that  branch 
of  the  Legislature,  UJuler  our  own  CJovorn- 
mout.  1  have  already  had  occasion  to  ex- 
press my  opinion  as   to  the  constitutional 


313 


changes  undergone  by  our  own  Legislative 
Council,  so  that  I  need  not  recur  to  that  sub- 
ject.     The   Hon.    Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands  has   asserted  that  we  are  justified  in 
voting  on  the  proposed  reversal  of  the  Con- 
stitution  without  an   appeal  to  the  people. 
I  beg  to  differ  from  that  opinion.     I  know 
the    nature    of  a   trust,    whether    civil    or 
political;  they  both   entail  very  much    the 
same  duties.      "Well,  what  is  the  charge  en- 
trusted to  us  by  our  constituents  ?     That  of 
working  out  the  present  Constitution  to  the 
best  of  our  understanding  and  of  our  judg- 
ment.    Such  is  the  power  entrusted  to  us; 
but  never  have  our  electors   authorized  us, 
as  it  is  now  proposed  to  do,  to  destroy  the 
Constitution  itself  and  to  enter  into  apolitical 
alliance  with  the  ether  British  provinces  of 
this   continent.      An   instance  of  a   similar 
constitutional      subversion,      without      the 
authorization    of  the  people,    is    net    to  be 
found  iu  the  pages  of  history.     It  has  been 
stated  in  this  House  that  the  project  of  Con- 
federation was  known  to  a  portion   of  the 
people,  and   that  there  was   nothing  to  pre- 
vent its  adoption  being  pressed.    Here  again, 
I  beg  to  differ  with  the  hon.    members  who 
express  that  opinion.      I  think    that   even 
though  the  project  were,  as  stated,  known 
by  a  portion  of  the  people,  that  would  not 
be  a  reason  for  precipitating  its  adoption, 
for  the   plan  interests   the   whole   country 
generally,  and  it  is    not  sufficient  that   it 
should  be  acceptable  to  a  certain  portion  of 
the  inhabitants,  but  to  the  great  mass  of  the 
people.     Moreover,  if  the  public  meetings 
already   held  in  Lower  Canada  serve  to  in- 
dicate the  popular  opinion  relative  to  this 
question,    in    this    section    of    the    country 
at   all    events,    it    may    fearlessly    be    said 
that     the     project    has     been    condemned 
in    fifteen    counties.      Will   any    one   ven- 
ture to   pretend   that  Lower  Canada  is   to 
be    of    no    account   in    the    Confederation, 
and     that     Upper     Canada    alone    has     a 
right  to  make  its  voice  heard  ;  that  only  its 
approval  or  disapproval  of  the  scheme   can 
entail  the  adoption     or    rejection     of    that 
scheme  ?     Most  assuredly,  I  do  not  believe 
that  any  one  would  ever  venture  to  enunciate 
such  a  pretension.     I  know  of  but  one  single 
county  in  Lower  Canada  which  authorized 
it3  representt.tive  to  vote  on  the  schame  in 
question  as  he  should  think  fit.     I  therefore 
consider  that  I  am  justified  in   saying,  that 
the  reason  which  induces  the  Government  to 
cause  this  measiirs  to  be   adopted  without 
suboaitting  all  it«  ^4etails,  is  that  it  fears  to 

41 


have  those  details  known  by  the  people,  who 
no  doubt  would  have  no  course  left  save  to 
reject  them.  After  having  di;:p!ayi;d  Con- 
federation clothed  in  the  most  brilliant  colore, 
the  Administration  fears  to  allow  the  people 
to  examine  it  in  its  true  light,  and  as  it  is 
intended  to  thrust  it  upon  them.  1  have 
already  stated  that  throughout  the  whole  of 
Lower  Canada,  but  one  county  has  been 
found  which  granted  to  its  representative  the 
privilege  of  voting  on  this  question  accnrding 
to  his  own  judgment.  In  all  the  remaining 
counties  in  which  the  people  have  been  called 
together  to  pronounce  upon  it,  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  has  been  formally  condemned. 
Hon.  Mr.  GUEVREMONT— Several 
counties  pronounced  themselves  iu  favor  of 
the  scheme ;  among  others,  the  county  of 
Yaudreuil. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER — I  am  not  aware 
that  the  county  of  Vaudreuil  voted  in  favor 
of  Confederation.  The  honorable  member 
for  Richelieu  had  also  mentioned  the  county 
of  Richelieu  as  one  of  those  which  had  not 
rejected  the  scheme  of  Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  GUEVREMONT— The  meet- 
ing in  question  did  not  condemn  Confeder- 
ation. It  merely  declared  itself  iu  favor  of 
certain  resolutions  which  were  submitted  to 
it,  which  demanded  that  the  people  should 
be  consulted  as  to  the  proposed  constitutional 
changes. 

Hon.  Mb.  OLIVIER— It  is  pcrfeotly 
true  that  the  county  of  Richelieu  never 
condemned  the  details  of  the  measure,  and 
for  a  very  simple  reason  :  the  Government 
had  never  allowed  them  to  be  known,  and 
still  persists  at  this  present  time  in  keeping 
the  country  in  ignorance  of  them.  But  the 
honorable  gentleman  admits  that  the  county 
of  Richelieu  directed  its  represeu  ative  to 
demand  an  appeal  to  the  people.  To  say 
that  Lower  Canada  is  favorable  to  the  scheme 
of  Confederation,  is  to  make  an  assertion  to 
which  th3  public  meetings  which  have  been 
held  within  the  last  month  or  two  give  the 
lie  in  the  most  formal  manner.  I  know  what 
to  think  of  the  expression  of  public  opinion 
in  the  district  of  Montreal;  as  to  the  district 
of  Quebec,  perhaps  the  honorable  gentlemen 
who  represent  the  several  divisions  com- 
prised in  it  will  be  good  enough  to  tell 
me  whether  or  not  there  have  been  any 
meetings  in  favor  of  Confederation  ?  Until 
I  am  shewn  that  the  project  has  been  ap- 
proved there,  I  shall  venture  to  believe  that 
in  the  district  of  Quebec,  as  in  the  district 
of  Montreal,  public  opinion  has  not  approved 


314 


of  the  proposed  Confederation.  I  do  not 
wish  to  assert  that  the  country  at  large  is 
averse  to  any  idea  of  Tonfcderation,  but  I 
maintain  that  it  cannot  be  in  favor  of  a 
scheme  with  the  details  of  which  it  is  un- 
acquainted, and  of  the  entirety  of  which  it 
is  ignorant.  The  most  effectual  means  of 
providing  for  the  defence  of  a  country  is  to 
make  the  people  attached  to  the  Constitution 
of  the  country ;  to  attempt  to  force  a  con- 
stitution upon  them  is,  in  plain  language, 
to  impel  them  towards  anarchy.  Ah  !  we 
are  already  surrounded  by  dangers  enough 
to  abstain  from  aggravating  our  position. 
Let  us  conduct  ourselves  so  that  the  people 
may  be  attached  to  their  constitution,  and 
then  we  may  rest  assured  that  they  will  be 
ready  to  defend  it  when  it  is  threatened. 
Undoubtedly,  it  is  not  by  acting  as  we  are 
now  doing  that  we  shall  attain  that  result. 
The  reason  assigned  by  the  Honorable  Com- 
missioner of  Crown  Lands  for  urging  on  this 
measure  does  not  appear  to  me  to  be  suffi- 
cient. We  are  not  here  to  please  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  or  to  legislate  in  their  inter- 
ests, but  we  are  here  to  preserve  the  rights 
of  our  fellow-citizens.  We  did  not  come 
here  with  a  predetermined  resolution  to 
throw  impediments  in  the  way  of  any  plan 
of  union.  We  are  all  interested  in  the  pros- 
perity and  greatness  of  our  country.  The 
last  time  I  had  the  honor  to  address  this 
Honorable  House,  I  stated  that  with  respect 
to  the  questions  which  possessed  the  highest 
interest  for  Lower  Canada,  the  proposed 
Confederation  would  be  a  legislative  union, 
that  is  to  say,  that  we  should  be  at  the 
mercy  of  Upper  Canada  and  the  Maritime 
Provinces.  1  expressed  that  opinion  in  good 
faith,  and  if  I  was  incorrect  in  my  conjec- 
tures, I  hope  that  the  members  of  the 
Government  will  be  good  enough  to  enlighten 
me  on  the  subject,  and  point  out  my  error. 
Such  was  not  done  at  the  time,  for  1  cannot 
accept  as  a  satisfactory  reply  the  few  expla- 
nations given  on  the  subject  by  the  honorable 
member  who  sits  opposite  to  me.  I  say  that 
the  Federal  Government  will  have  power  to 
declare  that  religioui  corpurutious,  for  in- 
stanc),  shall  not  be  allowed  to  hold  real 
estate  of  more  than  a  certain  value — more 
than  is  required  for  the  immediate  necessities 
of  their  establitfhments.  It  will  also  have 
power  to  enact  that  there  shall  be  no  con- 
nection between  (Church  and  State.  I  say 
that  the  powers  of  the  Federal  (jovernment 
will  be  bO  groat  that  Lower  Canada  will  bo  a 
cypher  in  the  affairs  which  most  concern  her. 


Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHfi— Yes!  yes!  of 
course. 

Ho.v.  Mr.  OLIVIER— I  am  glad  that  the 
honorable  and  gallant  Knight  confesses  so 
much. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— The  hon.  mem- 
ber must  surely  understand  my  meaning  in 
saying  "yes."  He  must  be  aware  that  I  mean 
it  in  irony. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— If  the  honorable 
and  gallant  Knight  says  it  in  irony,  I  for  my 
part  can  only  tell  him  that  I  regret  to  see, 
when  I  ask  questions  in  sober  earnest  con- 
cerning the  affairs  of  the  country,  when  I 
ask  for  information  on  so  important  a  matter, 
I  can  get  no  answer  but  an  ironical  one.  I 
ask  for  information,  because  I  confess,  for 
my  part,  that  I  may  be  mistaken  in  my 
opinions  on  this  matter.  My  opinions  are 
not  infallible  any  more  than  those  of  the 
members  of  the  Quebec  Conference — any 
more  than  those  of  the  Lower  Canadian 
members  of  the  Ministry  ;  and  it  is  for  that 
very  reason  that  I  seek  information  which 
may  serve  to  enlighten  me  and  enable  me  to 
form  a  correct  judgment  on  the  question. 
Have  those  who  devised  this  scheme  the 
presumption  to  think  that  they  are  not  liable 
to  mistake  ?  When  I  ask  for  the  details  of 
the  scheme  in  the  name  of  my  constituents^ 
I  am  answered  ironically.  But  I  know  what 
such  answers  are  worth.  I  know  that  some 
persons  have  recourse  to  irony  when  they 
have  DO  serious  answer  to  make,  when  they 
have  no  solid  reasons  to  give.  I  know  what 
discussion  is;  and,  if  I  have  not  often  mixed 
in  the  debates  of  this  Honorable  House,  I 
have  argued  at  the  bar,  and  i  am  perfectly 
aware  that  those  who  have  no  valid  reasons 
to  oppose  to  the  pleas  of  their  adversaries, 
endeavor  to  shift  their  ground  and  blink  the 
issue,  by  calling  attention  to  some  uiinor 
point  and  calling  in  the  aid  of  irony.  If  I 
am  denied  the  explanations  which  I  claim  in 
this  place,  how  can  I  answer  the  ((uestions 
which  my  constituents  have  a  right  to  ask 
me  ?  ]iut  I  must  now  address  myself  to  the 
con.si'lcratiou  of  the  appointment  of  members 
by  m(tn<himns  which  is  to  bo  introduced  into 
the  new  Constitution  of  the  Federal  Legisla- 
tive Council.  When  I  heard  the  houorublo 
and  gallant  Knight  tell  the  history  of  the 
last  moments  of  the  Legislative  Council 
sitting  under  that  authority,  I  took  it  as  the 
strongest  sentenco  of  condonuiation  of  tho 
present  hcheme.  lie  told  u-i,  in  effect,  that 
those  uiumbcrs  who  iiud  been  n|i|iointod  for  life 
were  honorable  men,  who  by  their  position 


315 


and  their  integrity  were  rightly  entitled  to 
carry  their  heads  erect;  whereas,  when  they 
passed  along  the  streets,  it  was  with  heads 
drooping.     Why  is  this  ? 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— I  did  not  say 
that  they  hung  their  heads  as  they  walked  the 
streets.  I  said  they  were  honorable  men 
who  had  a  right  to  carry  their  heads  high 
wherever  they  went,  but  that  they  were 
averse  to  coming  here  to  sit  in  the  Council 
on  account  of  the  prejudices  of  public  opinion 
which  bad  been  misguided. 

Hon.    Mr.  OLIVIER— The   unanimous 
opinion  of  a  country  is  not  so  misguided, 
and  the  opinion  of  the  country  was  unani- 
mous in  condemning  the  system  of  nomina- 
tion to  the  Council  by  the  Crown.     In  order 
to    produce    as    great   unanimity   of  public 
opinion  as  prevailed  in  regard  to  that  system, 
the  cause  which  leads  to  it  must  be  slow  and 
deep-seated — the  grounds  of  dissatisfaction 
must  be  real.     Both  Lower  and  Upper  Ca- 
nada must   have    suffered  long  under  that 
system,  to  condemn  it  as  they  both  did  ;  and 
I  regret  deeply  to  hear  from  the  honorable 
and   gallant  Knight   that  he  is  willing  to 
return  to  it.     It  may  be  that  as  men  advance 
in  years  they  may  change  their  views  and 
opinions;  but  it  seems  to  me  that  they  ought 
not  to  change  them  in  so  short  a  space  of 
time  as  the   honorable  and  gallant  Knight 
has  changed  his  in  regard  to  the  Constitution 
of  the  Legislative   Council.      It  is  not  so 
very  long   since   the   document  which  has 
been  read  this  evening  was  signed.     I  say, 
then,  that  the  history  told  us  by  the  honora- 
ble and  gallant  Knight  is  the  condemnation 
of  the  system  now  sought  to  be  introduced. 
After  what  the  honorable  and  2;allant  Knight 
has  said  about  the    councillors  appointed  by 
the   Crown,  with  what  grace  can   the   new 
councillors  come  here    to  take  their  seats  ? 
Will   not   the   prejudice    against   them    be 
stronger  than  ever  ?  inasmuch  as  it  will  be 
said   that    those  who   have   voted   for   the 
scheme  now  before  us  have  done  it  to  keep 
their   seats   as   long   as   they  live.      What 
respect  can  the  people  feel  for  such  a  House  ? 
Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— We  know  that 
you  will  not  barter   the  rights  of  the  people 
for  a  mess  of  pottage, 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— Nor  for  a  dish  of 
gold  either.  I  ask  whether  the  Government 
of  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight  have  ever 
found  me  among  those  who  ask  their  favors? 
Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACflfi— I  did  not  accuse 
you  of  it. 


Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— No,  but  you  in- 
sinuate  as  much. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— It  is  you  who 
say  that  the  seats  for  life  are  a  bait  for  coun- 
cillors. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER — I  see  the  meaning 
of  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight,  and 
when  I  am  told  ironically  that  I  would  not 
barter  the  rights  of  the  people  for  a  mess  of 
pottage,  I  have  a  right  to  say  that  I  would 
not  sell  them  even  for  a  dish  of  gold  ;  for  so 
far,  thank  Grod !  no  government  have  ever 
reckoned  uic  among  those  who  ask  their 
favors.  I  live  by  my  labor,  and  want  nothing 
from  the  Government.  I  took  notice  of  an 
expression  made  use  of  by  the  honorable 
and  gallant  Knight  in  speaking  of  the  last 
moments  of  the  Legislative  Council  appointed 
by  the  Crown.  He  told  us  that  to  restore 
the  credit  of  the  Legislative  Council  it  had 
been  found  necessary  to  make  it  elective  ; 
but  this  was  not  the  sole  inducement  for  the 
change;  there  was  another  motive  quite  as 
reasonable  for  making  the  Council  elective, 
and  this  motive  was  that  in  causing  the 
Councillors  to  be  elected,  they  would  be 
taken  from  among  all  parties  in  the  country, 
and  would,  therefore,  represent  the  public 
opinion  of  the  different  parties  in  it.  There 
was  a  time,  under  the  old  order  of  things, 
when  the  opinions  of  two  or  three  men 
residing  in  the  cities  ol  Quebec  and  Mont- 
real formed  the  public  opinion  of  all  Lower 
Canada.  This  had  a  bad  effect,  for  the 
public  opinions  of  the  different  parties  in 
the  country  ought  to  be  represented  in  this 
House  as  well  as  in  the  other.  It  was  for 
the  purpose  of  attaining  this  end  that  the 
country  was  broken  up  into  divisions,  that 
it  was  required  that  the  councillors  elected 
should  be  residents  in  the  divisions,  or 
should  be  the  owners  of  real  estate  within 
their  limits  of  the  value  of  £2,000  ;  but 
under  the  system  of  Crown  nominations  to 
seats  in  this  House,  the  choice  might  fall, 
as  it  formerly  did,  on  persons  residing  in  the 
large  cities  ;  it  would  not  be  difficult  for 
them  to  acquire  £1,000  worth  of  real  estate 
in  the  divisions,  and  the  country  would  not 
be  equally  represented  in  this  House.  An- 
other reason  why  the  elective  system  is 
preferable  to  that  of  nominations  by  the 
Crown,  is  that  on  every  fresh  election  the 
newly  elected  member  represents  the  opinions 
of  the  people  then  prevailing,  whereas  coun- 
cillors appointed  for  life  may  sometimes 
represent  public  opinion  as  it  existed  twenty 


316 


years  before  The  progress  of  the  country 
requires  tliaf  from  time  to  time  men  should 
enter  this  House  as--  representatives  of  the 
opinions  of  the  day. 

Hon.  Mr.  ARMSTRONG  moved  that 
the  House  do  now  adjourn. — Contents,  21  ; 
Non-Contents,  29. 

Hon.  Mr.  OLIVIER— T  shall  now  en- 
deavor to  answer  an  objection  made  by  the 
Hon.  the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands 
(Hon.  Mr.  Campbell)  to  the  motion  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Niagara  (Hon.  Mr. 
Currie).  He  would  make  it  appear  that 
the  motion  is  inconsistent  with  the  position 
taken  by  the  honorable  member  who  seconded 
the  motion,  because  he  declared  himself  as 
favorable  to  Coni'ederation.  For  my  part,  I 
can  .see  no  inconsistency  in  the  proceeding 
of  the  honorable  member,  who  merely  asks 
that  time  be  allowed  that  the  people  may 
give  their  opinions  on  the  question.  He 
does  not  care  in  what  manner  it  is  allowed. 
If  the  Government  do  allow  time  for  the 
purpose,  it  will  rest  with  them  to  say  whether 
the  question  shall  be  submitted  to  the  people 
by  means  of  a  general  election,  or  some 
other  way.  The  am  .ndmcnt  of  the  honor- 
able member  for  Niagara  does  not  suggest 
any  particular  way  of  submitting  the  ques- 
tion to  the  country.  He  only  asks  that 
it  be  so  submitted,  leaving  to  the  Govern- 
ment to  choose  the  most  convenient  method 
of  doing  it.  And  this  is  exactly  the  position 
which  I  have  myself  taken.  I  have  told 
honorable  members  who  seemed  to  believe 
me  altogether  opposed  to  Confederation,  that 
it  is  not  the  case,  that  I  only  want  time  to 
ascertain  whether  the  people  arc  in  favor  of 
the  scheme  or  not.  Only  if  the  project  is 
submitted  to  the  people,  it  is  desirable  that 
it  be  presented  to  them  in  all  its  details, 
and  not  in  the  skeleton  shape  in  which  it 
is  now  laid  Iclore  us.  I  have  no  intention 
to  weary  the  attention  of  the  House,  but  I 
thought  it  right  to  express  my  views  and 
say  why  I  intend  to  vote  in  favor  of  the 
motion  of  the  honorable  member  for  Ni- 
agara.   (Hear,  hear.) 

The  amendment  moved  by  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Currie  wa.s  then  put  to  the  vote,  and  lo.st 
on  the  fulldwing  division  : — 

Contents. — The  nonoriible  Mcssieui-s  Aikins, 
Archambault,  Armstrong',  ChaflTeri,  Currie,  Dick- 
son, A.  J.  Duchesnuy,  E.  H.  J.Ducheunay,  I'linl, 
Leonard,  Mulbiot,  Ulivicr,  Puiry,  I'roul.x,  Head, 
Reesor,  Seymour,  -Simpsou,  and  Vidul. — ID. 

NonContkntb. — The  Honorable  Messieurs 
Alexander,  Armand,  Sir  N.  F.  BcUeau,  Bennett, 


Jilake,  Boulton,  Bull,  Burnham,  Campbell,  Chris- 
tie, Crawfoi-d,  De  licaujeu,  Dumouchel,  Fo.ster, 
Giugras,  Gu^vrcmont,  Hamiltou  (lukermau), 
Hamilton  (Kingston),  Lacosto,  McCrea,  McDon- 
ald, McMaster,  Macpherson,  Mathesou,  Mills, 
Panet,  Ross,  Shaw,  Skead,  Sir  E.  P.  Tach6, 
and  Wilson. — .31. 

On  motion  of  the  Hon.  3Ir.  Aikins,  the 
debate  was  then  adjourned. 


Monday,  Februart/  2<>,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS  said-— Hon.  gentle- 
men, when  I  last  had  the  honor  of  address- 
ing the  House,  it  will  be  remembered  by 
those  b.on.  gentlemen  who  were  present  that  I 
spoke  very  strongly  in  relation  tu  the  changes 
contemplated  by  these  resolutions  in  refer- 
ence to  this  Chamber.  Since  then,  although 
I  have  listened  very  attentively  to  the 
speeches  of  honorable  gentlemen,  I  Lave 
heard  no  good  reason  to  convince  me  that  the 
elective  principle  as  regards  this  honorable 
House  should  be  abolished.  It  has  beeu 
asserted  by  those  who  are  strong  advocates 
of  Confederation,  that  if  any  amendment 
is  passed  affecting  the  general  principles  of 
the  resolutions,  it.  will  be  considered  a  defeat ; 
that  the  scheme  will  have  to  be  considered 
again,  and  that  negotiations  with  the 
Maritime  Provinces  will  have  to  be  resumed 
in  order  to  meet  the  altered  view  of  the  case 
Had  the  amendment  of  the  hon.  member  for 
Wellington  (Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn)  been  car- 
ried, this  miglit  have  beeu  the  case  j  but  as 
the  motion  which  I  amabout  to  move  applies 
only  to  the  Cunadas,  that  would  not  bo  so. 
It  will  be  remembered  that  that  amendment 
affirmed  not  only  the  elective  principle  for  all 
the  provinces,  but  that  the  life  members  who 
are  now  sitting  in  this  House  should  continue 
to  hold  their  seats.  It  went  further  and 
declared  that  a  number  to  correspond  with 
the  lile  members  should  be  admitted  to  the 
Chamber  from  the  Maritime  rrovincos.  In 
referring  to  the  vote  which  was  taken  on  this 
amendment,  1  find  that  in  the  41  votes  oast 
against  it,  11  of  the  life  members  of  the 
House  voted  against,  while  only  three  voted 
lor  it ;  thus  they,  by  a  largo  nmjoriiy  vote, 
negatived  tho  principles  therein  allirmcd.  1 
ruier  to  this  particularly,  lor  this  reason,  that 
the  gnmnd  may  be  taken  by  the  liio  mem- 
bers in  this  Chamber  that  my  amendment  is 
specially  directed  against,  and  if  carried, 
would  be  applicable  to  those    hon.  gentle- 


I 


SI? 


men.  The  vote  they  have  already  given  on  the 
resolution  referred  to  is  my  vindication,  and 
they,  in  affirming  the  general  principles  of 
the  OonfederatioQ  resolutions,  will  vote  for 
that  which  may  deprive  them  of  their  aeats. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— Hear,  hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— The  hon.  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands  cries  "  Hear,  hear  !" 
But,  after  the  life  members  of  the 
House  have  affirmed  by  their  votes  that 
they  do  not  desire  that  the  elective  principle 
should  obtain ;  I  do  not  think  they  can  find 
fault  with  me,  an  elective  member,  for  affirm- 
ing that  it  should  prevail.  And  it  does 
appear  to  me,  hon.  gentlemen,  that  this 
House,  if  constituted  as  foreshadowed  by 
these  resolutions,  would  be  one  of  the  most 
independent  and  irresponsible  bodies  that 
could  possibly  be  created,  the  Crown  possess- 
ing no  power  whatever  over  it.  There  is  no 
power  of  dissolution ;  the  Crown  has  no 
power  to  add  to  the  number ;  and  whatever 
difficulties  might  possibly  occur  under  the 
elective  system,  when  the  opportunity  is 
afforded  to  the  people  of  correcting  those  diffi- 
culties, it  will  be  found  that  these  difficulties 
will  be  largely  increased  under  the  proposed 
system.  It  has  been  stated  by  some  hon.  mem- 
bers that  a  dead-lock  might  occur.  That  was 
the  impression  which  prevailed  when  the  elect- 
ive principle  was  introduced  ;  but  few  have 
thought  proper  to  use  such  an  argument 
during  the  present  debate,  because  it  has 
not  been  proved  by  the  result.  But  if  it 
were  possible  for  a  dead-lock  to  occur  under 
the  elective  system,  it  is  far  more  probable 
under  the  system  proposed  in  the  resolutions. 
If  a  feeling  had  been  manifested  by  this 
Chamber  since  the  elective  principle  was 
introduced — if  we  had  attempted  in  any  one 
respect  to  usurp  the  exclusive  privileges  of 
the  Legislative  Assembly — it  might  then  with 
truth  be  affirmed  that  the  introduction  of 
the  elective  principle  in  this  Chamber  was  a 
dangerous  one.  But  such  has  not  been  the 
case.  I  think  that  the  elective  principle 
has  worked  well,  and  that  so  far  as  the  danger 
of  a  conflict  is  concerned,  it  is  as  far  removed 
under  the  present  system  as  under  the 
nominative  system.  Holding  these  views,  I 
have  thought  it  proper  to  place  vzj  amend- 
ment before  the  House,  and  I  trust  that  the 
question  will  bo  discussed  fairly  on  its  merits. 
I  beg  now  to  move,  seconded  by  Hon.  Mr. 
Bureau, — 

To  resolve,  in  amendment  to  the  resolutions  of 
the  Hon.  Sir  E.P.  Tache, — That  the  Legislative 


Councillors  representing  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
ill  the  Legislative  Council  of  the  General  Legis- 
lature, shall  be  elected  as  at  present,  to  represent 
the  forty-eight  electoral  divisions  mentioned  in 
schedule  A  of  chapter  first  of  the  Consolidated 
Statutes  of  Canada,  and  each  such  Councillor 
shall  reside  or  possess  the  qualification  in  the 
division  he  is  elected  to  represent. 

The  ground  may  be  taken  by  many  hon. 
gentlemen  who  are  strongly  in  favor  of  this 
scheme,  that  there  is  much  more  symmetry 
in  the  scheme  presented  by  the  resolutions, 
and  which  this  motion,  if  carried,  would  mar. 
But  really  there  is  very  little  harmony  in 
them.  Under  them  the  appointed  council- 
lors will,  in  Lower  Canada,  be  required  to 
reside  in  certain  divisions  or  to  hold  their 
property  there.  In  Upper  Canada  the  same 
property  qualification  applies,  but  as  to 
residence  there  is  no  restriction  j  whilst  in 
one  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  (Priuce  Ed- 
ward) qualification  is  based  on  personal 
property  only.  Henco  there  is  in  reality 
very  little  symmetry  about  the  scheme. 
(Hear  hear.) 

Hon.  Sir  N.  F.  BELLEAU  raised  the 
point  of  order  that  the  amendment  had  in 
substance  been  already  disposed  of  by  the  vote 
on  the  amendment  of  Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn. 

The  Hon.  the  SPEAKEK— The  ques- 
tion of  order  raised  by  the  hon.  gentleman  is 
whether  the  amendment  now  proposed  is  not 
substantially  the  same  as  the  one  voted  on  by 
the  House  and  brought  forward  by  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn,  and  if  it  is,  whether  it  is  in 
order?  Before  giving  my  decision,  I  wisb  that 
the  mover  of  the  L-mendment  should  himself 
explain  the  difference  between  his  motion 
and  that  already  decided  by  the  House,  if 
he  thinks  proper  to  do  so. 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  contend  that  it  is 
not  the  same,  in  effect,  as  the  motion  brought 
foiward  by  the  hon.  member  for  Welling- 
ton. It  is  true  that  the  elective  principle  is 
affirmed  in  both ;  but  then  the  motion  of 
the  Hon.  Mr.  Sanborn  went  further  and 
applied  the  elective  principle  to  the  Maritime 
Provinces,  and  was  favorable  to  the  retention 
of  the  life  members,  and  it  also  extended 
the  life  principle  to  the  Maritime  Provinces, 
and  contemplated  the  addition  of  ten  life 
members  to  this  Chamber  from  those  pro- 
vinces. My  motion  simply  affirms  the  elec- 
tive principle  so  far  as  Canada  is  coucerned, 
and  between  the  two  I  think  there  is  a 
material  difference. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— There  is  no  doubt  that 
the   motion   of  the  honorable  member   for 


318 


Wellington  embraced  all  that  this  contains, 
and  a  great  deal  more.  So  that  if  in  the 
motion  that  was  disposed  of  the  other  day, 
there  was  embraced  what  this  motion  con- 
^  tains,  the  present  motion  is  out  of  order, 
containing  as  it  does  a  principle  which  has 
already  been  pronounced  upon  by  this  House. 
The  Hon.  the  SPEAKER— There  may 
be  some  difficulty  in  deciding  on  a  matter  of 
this  kind,  because  the  two  motions,  although 
not  exactly  identical,  are  very  nearly  so  in  one 
particular.  The  argument  that  the  motion 
of  Hon,  Mr.  Sanborn  contained  more  than 
is  embraced  in  this  motion  does  not  apply. 
The  question  is,  does  this  affirm  what  was 
contained  in  the  motion  already  voted  upon  ? 
That  in  deciding  on  this  particular  matter, 
we  have  decided  on  other  things  connected 
with  it,  does  not  affect  the  position.  Rules 
on  questions  of  this  kind  have  been  made  to 
prevent  Parliament  deciding  one  day  con- 
trary to  another,  and  to  avoid  also  surprises, 
by  questions  being  introduced  a  second  time 
in  the  absence  of  members  who  may  have 
previously  voted  on  them.  Were  this  motion 
to  carry,  it  would  affirm  a  principle  which 
was  negatived  when  the  motion  of  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Sanborn  was  before  the  House.  It  is 
not  necessary  that  the  two  motions  should  be 
exactly  the  same ;  it  is  sufficient  if  they  are 
substantially  alike.  I  will  quote  a  few  words 
on  this  point  from  Way  : — 

It  is  a  rule  in  ])oth  Houses  uot  to  permit  any 
question  or  bill  to  be  offered  which  is  substan- 
tially the  same  as  one  on  which  their  judgment  has 
already  been  pronounced  during  the  same  session. 
This  is  necessary  to  avoid  different  decisions  being 
given,  and  to  prevent  surprises  by  a  question 
being  resolved  iirst  in  the  affirmative  and  next 
in  the  negative. 

Should  we  pass  this  motion  now  before  the 
House,  wo  should  be  doing  what  ^Iay  says 
the  rule  of  Parliament  has  been  framed  to 
avoid,  for  it  would  be  affirrain^^  a  principle 
on  one  day,  and  in  another  day  the  contrary. 
I  am  bound  to  say  that  in  my  opinion  the 
resolution  is  substantially  contained  in  the 
resolution  already  decided  upon,  and  that 
therefore  it  is  out  of  order.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  AIKINS— I  must  confess  that 
1  would  like  to  have  had  the  opinion  of  the 
House  on  the  motion;  but  1  am  quite  willing 
to  abide  by  the  decision  of  the  Hpeakor. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

The  Hon.  the  SPEAKER— That  the  de- 
cision 1  have  given  may  be  well  understood — 
to  remove  all  apprehension  on  the  score  of  n 


motion  once  negatived  not  being  supposed  to 
be  finally  disposed  of,  I  may  say  that  we  find 
this  in  the  rules  of  the  Imperial  Parliament : 
"  A  question  once  carried  or  negatived  can- 
not be  brought  forward  again." 

Hon.  Mr.  FLINT  said — Honorable  gen- 
tlemen, I  deeply  regret  that  the  amendment 
of  my  honorable  friend  could  not  have  been 
placed  before  the  House,  in  order  to  a  more 
direct  vote  being  elicited  on  the  principle 
therein  contained,  that  of  the  application  of 
the  elective  principle  to  this  House.     It  is 
true  that  the  honorable  member  for  Welling- 
ton    embodied    the    same    principle  in  the 
resolution   which   he    brought    before    the 
House,  and  which  was  negatived.     I  confess 
I  hardly  expected,  when  I  saw  this  amend- 
ment on  the  notice  paper,  that  it  would  be 
allowed  to  be  proceeded  with.     Still  I  was 
in  hopes  that  the  House  would  have  borne 
with  the  honorable  gentleman,   and   would 
have  allowed  his  motion  to  be  placed  on  the 
Journals  of  the  House.     Having  been  sent 
here  by  a  constituency  which  embraces  about 
75,000  souls,  upon  the  elective  principle,  I 
feel  that  I  should  but  ill  discharge  my  duty 
to  that  constituency,  without  having  received 
from  them  their  direct  and  positive  instruc- 
tions to  the  contrary,  were  I  to  stand  up  on 
the  floor  of  this   House  and  advocate  the 
taking  away  from  them  of  the  privilege  of 
the    elective  franchise  which  has  been  con- 
ceded to  them  by  Parliament.     If  this  prin- 
ciple had  not  been   granted,    the    position 
would  be  altogether  changed  ;    but  having 
once  granted  to  a  people  the  right  of  saying 
whom  they  will  have  to  represent  them  in 
this  Chamber,  they  ought  also  to  be  asked, 
before  wc  are  called  upon  to  vote,  whether 
they  desire  to  give  back  the  privilege  into 
the  hands  of  the  Government.     I  would  not 
lor  a  moment  think  of  placing  them  in  so 
false  a  position.     I  cannot,  therefore,  look 
with  favor  upon  that  portion  of  the  resolu- 
tions which  goes  to  take  away  from  the  people 
the  right  to  nominate  and  select  moinbers  to 
this  Honorable  House.     So  much  has  been 
said  on  this  subject  that  it  would  be  hardly 
worth  while  for  me  to  consume  the  time  of 
the  House  in  going  over  the  ground  which 
so  many  others  have  gone  over  already.     1 
have  not  heard,  however,  in  all  the  speeches 
which  have  been  made  in  advocacy  of  tluH 
measure,  anything  to  cause  me  to  swerve  for 
a  moment  from  the  views  I  have  always  en- 
tertained after  reading  this  portion  of  the 
resolutions.     1   may  say  that   when  I   was 


319 


elected,  it  is  true  that  Federation  was 
before  the  country,  but  it  was  before  the 
country  in  a  very  different  shape  from  what 
it  is  at  the  present  time.  After  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  day  was  defeated  last  session, 
and  after  arrangements  had  been  entered 
into,  it  was  understood  by  these  arrange- 
ments that  we  were  to  have  Federation  of 
the  two  Canadas.  That  was  all  that  was 
placed  before  us.  In  issuing  my  short 
address,  I  stated  I  was  in  favor  of  Feder- 
ation. I  am  so  still — (hear) — but  while  in 
favor  of  Confederation  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, I  desire  it  should  be  carried  out  in 
such  a  way  that  it  will  conduce  to  the  best 
interests  of  all  concerned.  I  wish  that  no 
advantage  may  be  taken  by  any  one  of  the 
provinces  over  the  others.  When  I  came 
before  my  constituents  for  election,  as  hon. 
gentlemen  may  be  aware,  I  had  no  opposition 
— I  was  elected  by  acclamation.  All  I  could 
say  to  the  people  on  the  measure  was  simply 
this,  that  I  approved  of  the  scheme  marked 
out  by  the  Grovernment  when  the  new  ad- 
ministration was  formed,  but  I  knew  nothing 
as  to  what  had  subsequently  taken  place. 
I  told  them  that  I  was  in  favor  of  change — 
that  I  was  in  favor  of  a  Federation  of  the 
two  provinces  of  Upper  and  Lowjr  Canada, 
in  order  that  we  might  live  together  in  peace, 
as  I  was  satisfied,  from  what  we  had  witnessed 
as  transpiring  for  many  years,  that  it  was 
impossible  to  live  longer  together — that  it 
was  better  to  separate,  and  in  separating  we 
would  probably  be  better  friends.  I  also 
stated  that  the  time  must  come  when  the 
Confederation  of  all  the  provinces  would 
take  place,  and  that  if  Confederation  was 
formed  upon  a  just  basis,  it  would  no 
doubt  be  the  means  of  a  vast  amount  of  good 
to  our  common  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
first  knowledge  I  had  of  Confederation  was, 
as  a  matter  of  course,  when  the  delegates 
met  ^and  passed  '^  the  resolutions  which 
are  now  before  us  with  a  slight  alter- 
ation or  two  of  no  moment.  When  these 
resolutions  were  printed  by  the  Government 
I  received  one  from  the  Honorable  the  Pro- 
vincial Secretary,  marked  •'  Private,"  and  I 
also  at  the  same  time  received  a  note  from 
that  honorable  gentleman,  stating  that  these 
resolutions  were  not  then  intended  for  the 
eye  of  the  public.  The  consequence  was, 
I  felt  that  I  could  not  read  these  resolutions, 
and  meet  my  constituents  and  tell  them  that 
I  knew  nothing  in  reference  to  Confedera- 
tion.    Thus  feeling  my  hands  tied,  1  placed 


the  resolutions  in  my  desk,  and  left  them 
there;  and  never  did  I  examine  them  to  ascer- 
tain what  honorable  gentlemen  had  done 
until  I  took  my  seat  on  the  floor  of  the 
House.  I  could  not  feel  free  to  place  myself 
in  a  position  before  my  constituents,  and  on 
being  asked  from  time  to  time  what  were 
the  prospects  of  Confederation  and  what 
were  its  details,  give  a  truthful  reply  with 
the  restrictions  placed  upon  me,  were  I  to 
have  read  the  resolutions ;  and  therefore  I 
did  not  read  the  resolutions,  so  that  I  might 
honestly  say  I  knew  nothing  about  them.  I 
feel,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  it  would  be 
impossible  for  me,  under  existing  circum- 
stances, to  vote  away  that  right  which  has 
been  granted  by  the  Constitution  of  our 
country  to  those  who  now  have  the  privilege 
conferred  upon  them  of  exercising  the 
elective  franchise  so  far  as  regards  this 
Chamber.  I  feel  that  I  should  do  a  great 
wrong  and  perpetrate  a  great  injury  to  the 
electors  who  sent  me  here,  were  I  to  vote  for 
that  portion  of  the  scheme  which  contem- 
plates the  taking  away  of  their  franchise 
altogether.  I  have  no  objection,  as  a  mat- 
ter of  course,  to  the  life  members,  if  they 
so  desire  it,  voting  away  their  rights,  or  of 
placing  their  seats  in  the  hands  of  the  Go- 
vernment to  be  dealt  with  as  they  please; 
and  so  far  as  I  am  individually  concerned, 
I  would  have  no  objection  to  sacrifice  my 
seat  in  the  House  for  the  good  of  the  country 
and  of  my  constituents.  They  have  sent  me 
here,  not  because  I  was  anxious  to  be  placed 
in  this  position,  however  honorable  it  may 
be,  but  because  I  was  their  choice.  And  I 
must  say  that  it  was  one  of  the  proudest 
and  happiest  days  of  my  life  when  I  found, 
after  having  battled  politically  for  so  many 
years  on  the  side  of  reform,  that  I  could  go 
into  a  constituency  embracing  75,000  souls, 
of  all  descriptions  and  shades  of  politics,  and 
that  I  had  so  far  given  satisfaction  that  not 
a  man  was  to  be  found  who  raised  his  voice 
against  my  re-election.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
have  gained,  I  may  say,  all  that  I  desire  in 
the  way  of  earthly  honor ;  but  I  feel,  like 
many  other  honorable  gentlemen,  that  in 
being  placed  in  this  high  and  honorable 
position,  it  is  my  duty  to  act  faithlully  to- 
wards those  who  sent  me  here;  and  I  feel  I 
should  do  wrong  if,  on  an  occasion  like  this, 
I  should  give  my  vote  for  placing  that  portion 
of  Upper  Canada  which  I  am  sent  to  repre- 
sent in  a  worse  position  than  they  occupied 
before.     Having   made   these  few  remarks 


S20 


with  reference  to  the  elective   principle,  I 
desire  now  to  speak  about  one  or  two  other 
things  in  connfection  with  these  resolutions. 
And  one  thing  in  particular,  I  find,  has  not 
been  spoken  of  by  any  member  on  the  floor 
of  this  House.     I  refer  now  to  the  sixth 
clause,  with  reference  to  education.     Now, 
hon.  gontlernen,  it  strikes  me  it  was  decidedly 
wrong  on  the  part  of  the  delegates  to  place 
anything  in   reference  to  the  education   of 
the  people  of  Upper  and    Lower  Canada  in 
this  scheme.      I    will   give  my  reasons  for 
it,  and  I  think  those  reasons  are  good.     I 
think  it  should  be  left  fully  and  entirely  to 
the  people  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  to 
decide  what  is   best  with   reference  to  this 
matter.     We  see  already  that  both  in  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada  both  parties  are  actively 
engaged  endeavoring  to  press  upon  the  atten- 
tion of  both  Houses  of  Parliament  the  neces- 
sity of  granting  them  greater  privileges  than 
they  already  enjoy.     They  seem  to  be  deter- 
mined to  have  nuthing  less  for  their  Catholic 
education  than  a  full  staff  of  officers,  together 
with  model  and   normal  schools,  and  all  the 
paraphernalia  which   attach  to  the   present 
common   school    system.      That   which   in 
Upper  Canada  was  regarded  as  a  finality  in 
school  matters  is  now  scouted  at,  and  the  advo- 
cates of  separate  schools  go  so  far  as  to  insist 
upon  having  a  college  ;  and  the  object  is  no 
doubt  to  place  themselves  in  a  position  to 
be  wtiolly  independent  of  the  proposed  local 
government  of  Upper  Canada.     So  far  as  I 
am   individually   concerned   in  reference  to 
schools,  I  would  far  rather  that  the  school 
system  was  worked  out  in  both  provinces  on 
the  principle  of  the  common  schools.     I  see 
no  rea^ion  why  in  any  neighborhood  a  portion 
of  the   children   should   be   sent  to  one  de- 
scription   of  school,  and   a  portion   of  the 
children    sent    to    another    description    of 
school.     I  believe  it   is  wrong  in  principle, 
and  that  the  children  of  our  common  country 
should   grow   up   together  and  be  educated 
together.    In  our  public  schools  there  should 
be   nothing  tau^jht  which   would  have  the 
effect  of  preventing  any  person  from  sending 
their  children  to  them.    These  are  my  views 
in  reference  to  schools.     I  believe  that  the 
effect  of  giving  exclusive  rights  and  privi- 
leges to  certain   parties  has  had  a  tendency 
to  weaken  the  good   feeling   which    should 
subsist  between  all  classes  of  the  community, 
and  which  is  now  neen  in  the  demand  iVom 
both  sections  for  different  sy.stems  of  educa- 
tion.     (Hear,    hear.) 
which  I  desire  to  call 


The    next 
the  attention 


thing  to 
of  the 


House  is  that  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway. 
I  am  opposed  in  toto  to  that  great  road.     I 
am  opposed  to  it  for  the  best  of  all  reasons. 
I  In  the  first  place,  I  am  not  satisfied  with  it, 
because  I  do   not  know  what  it  is  going  to 
cost.     There  is  nothing  in  these  resolutions 
to  indicate  what  is  to  be  the  expense ;  nor 
have  I  been  able   to  discover  from  what  has 
taken    place   on  the  floor  of  the  House,  any 
data  on  the   subject.     Consequently,  I  do 
not  feel  that  it  would  be  my  duty  to  vote 
for  a  measure  which  is  going  to  entail  upon 
Upper  Canada  a  large  amount  of  debt,  with- 
out first  knowinr  what  that  debt  is  to  bo. 
So  far  from  this  being  regarded  as  a  com- 
mercial undertaking,  I  cannot  for  the  life  of 
me   see   how  it  is  possible  that   it  can  be 
worked  commercially.      The   hon.   member 
from   Montreal  (Hon.  Mr.  Feurier),  who 
spoke  in  his  place  the  other  evening,  never 
touched  upon  this  subject.     All  he  told  us 
in  reference  to  this  great  scheme  was  simply 
this:  that  there  were  100  odd  cars  lying  at 
Montreal  laden  with  produce,  and  that  they 
could  not  go   forward  because  on  the  other 
side  of  the  lines  they  had  so  much  to  do  that 
they  could  not  send  the  cars  through.     But 
this  was  no  argument  at  all  in  favor  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railway.     But   supposing  the 
road  were  built,  do  hon.  gentlemen  believe 
for    a   moment   that  it  would  pay  running 
expenses  ?     There  is  no  doubt  in  my  mind 
that  to  keep    it   open  a  subsidy  would  be 
required,  like  that  which  is  paid  to  the  ocean 
steamers.     It  was   stated  the  other  day  by 
the   hon.  member  from    Montreal  that  two 
cents  per  ton  per  mile  was  a  very  small  rate 
for  railway  carriage.     But  taking  it  at  that 
figure,  what  do  we    find  ?     From  Toronto  to 
the  seaboard,  over  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
the  distance  may  be  estimated  at  939  miles, 
and  to  send  a  barrel  of  flour  that  distance  by 
railway,  at  a  cost  of  two  cents  per  mile   per 
ton,  the  charges  on  the  flour  would  bo  not 
less  than   §2.08.     But  supposing  one-half 
this  tariff  were  charged — one  cent  per  ton 
per  mile — and  we  are  told  that  at  such  a 
rate   the  road  would   be   run  at   a  loss,  the 
cost  would   bo  $1.04;   and  by  the  time  the 
barrel  of  flour  was   laid  down  in  Liverpool, 
there  would  be  charges  on  it  for  carriage  of 
eight  or  ten  cents  per  each   bushel  of  wheat 
over  what  was  formerly  paid.     These  figures 
are  based  on  the  authority  of  hon.  gentlemen 
opposite.    "Oh!  but,"  say  they,  "thef.irmcr 
gots   the    benefit  of  his  money   during  the 
winter."      I    do  not  sec    that    this  i.-<  any 
argument  at   nil  in  a   comutercial  point  of 


321 


view.     We  have  the  advantage  of  gettino; 
the  money  in  the  winter,  it  is  true,  but  how 
do  we  get  it  ?     By   losing  a   large  amount. 
For  my  part,   I  ^o   not  believe  io  getting 
only  3s.  9d.  for  a  dollar's  worth  of  produce. 
(Hear,    hear.)       And    I    am    satisfied    that 
when    our  farmers  get    to    understand    the 
question,  they  never  will  consent  to  be  taxed 
for    the    construction    of    any   such    road. 
Taking   the    cost   of  transportation    at  two 
cents  per  ton  per  mile,  and  the  distance  from 
Halifax  to  lielleville  at  831  miles,  we  find  it 
would  cost  S 16 .  62  to  transport  a  ton  of  goods 
between  the  two  places.    And  at  such  figures, 
does  any  honorable  gentleman  who  has  the 
slightest   knowledge  of  commercial  transac- 
tions believe  for  a  moment  that  merchandise 
could  be  sent  over  the  road  at  any  such  rates  ? 
Supposing   you  reduce    the   rate   one  cent, 
it  would  still  coat  S8.31,  which  would  pre- 
clude the  possibility  of  carrying  freight  over 
the  road;  so  that,  in  a  commercial   point  of 
view,  the   road  would   be  perfectly   useless. 
It  is  true  that  under  our  present  system  of 
banking,  our  bankers  endeavor  to  enforce  on 
the  purchasers  of  produce  the  necessity  of 
immediate  shipments  and  immediate   sales, 
aud  with  that  view  cause  them   to  draw  for 
their  accommodation  at  short  dates;  but  it 
is  also  true  that  by  such  a  practice  the  far- 
mer is   in    every    instance    the  loser.     The 
reason  ol  this  custom  is  that  the  banks  want 
quicker  returns.     But  I  contend   that    the 
banks  sliould  be  prepared  to  advance  money 
at  such  dates  as  will   enable  the  producer  to 
so  sell  his  produco  as  to  get  from  it  a  remu- 
nerative return  for  his  labor.      But  thi.s  it 
not   done.     It  seems   that  the   tendency  of 
everything  is  to  force  freight  down  the  rail- 
ways during  the  winter  season,  and  to  this 
end  n  ouey  is  advanced  at  short  dates,  the 
farmer  being  the  chief  loser  by  the  transac- 
tion.     Then   the    Intercolonial    Railway   is 
advocated  as  a  military  necessity.     It  is  said 
that    it   is  e^sential  lor  the  defence  of  the 
country,  to  enable  the  transportation  ot  troops 
and  military  stores.    I  think,  hon.  gentltmen, 
we  have  only  to  look  across  the  lines  and  see 
what  has  taken  place  during  the  war  in  the 
State  of   Virginia    and   in    other  states,    to 
convince  us  at  once  that  for  the  purpose  of 
moving  troops  and  heavy   supplies,  such  as 
artillery  and  ammunition,  these  roads  are  of 
very  little   use.      You  will  find   that    they 
have    been  cut   in    almost   every  direction, 
and   the   facilities  thi^y   were    supposed   to 
possLts  for  transportation  have  been  proved 
to  be  well  nigh  worthless  for  any  practical 
42 


purpose, — and  that,  too,  in  a  country  where 
they  are  able  in  a  short  time  to  rebuild  any 
portions  of  the  road.s  which  may  be  destroyed. 
But  how  would  it  be  on  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  ?  That  road  is  intended  to  run 
through  a  country  near  the  boundary  of  the 
State  of  Maine,  over  which  troops  could  be 
distributed  at  given  points  so  as,  in  case  of 
necessity,  to  break  up  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way in  every  direction  and  to  prevent  the 
transportation  of  troops  and  munitions  of 
war  during  the  winter. 

An    HON.    MEMBER— They  would  be 
unable  to  reach  it  so  as  to  cut  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  FLINT — ^hat  is  a  very  curious 
idea  ;  "  They  cannot  reach  it  I"    I  lo  )k  upon 
the  Americans  as  a  class  of  persons-  who  can 
cut   their  way  wherever    they  wish   to  go. 
Nothiag  would  be   easier  than   for  them   to 
cut   the   Intercolonial  Railway.      But   if  it 
were  really  the  case  that   the  country  to  be 
traversed  by  the  Intercolonial  Railway  is  of 
such  a  nature  that  no  one  could  set  through 
to  it,  the  sooner  we. cease   saying  anything 
further  about  it  the  better.     (Hear.)     For 
if  the   country  is  in   such   a  state  that  it  is 
impossible  for  men  to  travel  through  it,  I  see 
no  benefit  in  having  such  a  railway.     (Hear, 
hear.)     These  are  my  vie\YS  in  reference  to 
the  railway.     In  the  first  place  I  do  not  feel 
inclined  to  pay  the  large  sum  of  money  it  is 
going  to  cost,  without  knowing  how   much 
will  be  required.     There  is  no  knowing  how 
much  it  will  cost  Upper  Canada  for  her  pro- 
portion—whether it  is  to  be  §12,000.000, 
315,000,000,  or  820,000,000.     But  taking 
into    consideration   the   amount  of  debt  we 
will  have  to  assume,  together  with  our  appor- 
tionment  of    the  662,.500,000   assigned  to 
Upper  and   Lower  Canada,  as  also  that  por- 
tion yet  unprovided  for  by  the  resolutions; 
I    think    that    by  the   time    the    Intercolo- 
nial Railway  is  built.  Upper  Canada  will  be 
saddled  with  at;  least    $50,000,000   as   her 
share  of  debt.     I  do   not  see  how  it  is  pos- 
sible for  the  people  to  bear  up  under  such  a 
weight ;   nor  do  I  believe  that,  if  they  under- 
stood this  matter  as  they  ought  to  understand 
it,  they   would   give   their   consent  to  us  to 
vote  :or  it.     It  may  be  thought,  perhaps,  that 
I  am  not  in  favor  of  Confederation.    But  such 
is   not  the   case      I  would   much  desiie  the 
Federation  of  all  the  provinces ;  but  while 
I  would  desire  the  Federation  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, I    do    desire    that    that    Federation 
should  be   based  on  true  and  proper  princi- 
ples— that  every  portion  of  these  provinces 
of  Her  Majesty's  dominion  should  share  and 


322 


stare  alike.  I  do  not  believe  in  one  portion 
of  the  provinces  being  placed  in  a  position  of 
inferiority  to  the  others.  I  believe  Upper 
Canada  should  have  its  just  rights — I  be- 
lieve Lower  Canada  should  have  its  just 
rights  — and  I  believe  that  the  other  provin- 
ces should  have  their  just  rights.  We  should 
come  together  not  with  a  feeling  of  distrust, 
but  with  a  feeling  of  mutual  good  will,  leadj 
to  take  each  other  by  the  hand  and  to  press 
forward  to  what  I  would  hope  might  prove 
an  honorable  destiny.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am 
well  satisfied  that  the  more  this  question  is 
discussed — notwithstanding  the  remarks  of 
some  hon.  gentlemen  to  the  contrary — the 
more  the  question  is  discussed  and  ventilat- 
ed, the  greater  will  be  the  dissatisfaction  of 
the  people  with  it.  I  have  received  but  one 
letter  from  my  constituents  on  the  point,  and 
the  simple  reference  of  that  writer  is  this : 
"  Do  not  you  vote  for  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way." He  says,  "  I  should  like  Federation  ; 
but  do  not  vo*^e  for  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way." But,  hon.  gentlemen,  whether  I  had 
received  such  an  admonition  or  not,  I  could 
not  see  m}  way  clear  to  vote  for  the  resolu- 
tions as  they  now  stand.  I  have  paid  all 
possible  attention  to  the  speeches  which  have 
been  delivered  in  this  chai:  bcr.  I  have  list- 
ened with  every  degreeof  re  |)ectful  attentiiu 
to  the  hon.  and  gallant  Knight  who  leads  the 
Government,  and  also  to  his*  hon.  colleague 
the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands,  and  I 
should  be  happy  if  it  were  in  my  power  to 
go  with  them  in  the  vote  which  is  about  to 
be  cast ;  but  I  do  not  see  how  that  is  possible, 
if  I  am  at  the  sauie  time  to  discharge  my  duty 
to  my  constituents,  to  myself,  and  to  my  coun- 
try. I  can  never  consent  to  vote  away  the 
rights  which  belong  to  the  people,  withoutfirst 
asking  the  people  lor  their  consent.  If  the 
time  is  given  them  necessary  to  make  up 
their  minds  on  this  subject,  and  ♦hey  then 
B»y  to  this  House  :  "  We  are  willing  to  try 
this  scheme — we  are  willing  to  takt;  it  with 
all  its  defects,  in  the  hope  that  it  will  be 
found  to  work  well,"  I  will  give  ray  vote  for 
it  as  it  now  .-^tands.  But,  in  the  ab^ence  of 
this  opportunity  being  affoided,  I  mu.si  say 
that  if  I  an:  in  the  HouKe  when  the  vote  is 
called  on  this  measure,!  shall  have  to  record 
njy  name  against  it,  and  in  so  doing  I  shall 
be  acting  conscientiously.  I  shall  do  so  be- 
cause I  think  it  a  duty  incnn  bent  on  xuo, 
however  painful  it  may  be  lor  nie  to  vote 
contrary  to  the  views  of  the  Government  in 
this  respect,  and  contrary  to  a  large  majority 
of  this  House.     And  while  I  would  couctde 


to  every  hon.  gentleman  who  may  difi'er  from 
me  the  same  freedom  of  judgment  that  I 
claim  for  myself — while  I  would  look  with 
ad  charity  on  the  course  thought  proper  to 
be  taken  by  my  fellow  members,  I  feel  per- 
suaded that  they  will  not  bejrrudge  me  the 
right  of  diochargiug  my  duty  in  accordance 
with  the  dictates  of  my  conscience,  and  what 
I  believe  to  be  for  the  good  of  my  consti- 
tuents. And  if  my  constituents  do  not  agree 
with  me  in  what  I  am  about  to  do,  they  have 
only  to  say,  "  Mr.  Flint,  your  conduct  does 
not  accord  with  our  views ;  we  desire  that 
you  should  retire  from  public  life;"  and  I 
shall  be  most  happy  to  conform  to  their 
wishes.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DE  BEAUJEU  said— Honor 
able  gentlemen,  I  think  it  an  act  of  patriotism 
to  support  the  resolutions  submitted  to  us, 
having  for  their  object  the  Confederation  of 
.several  provinces,  so  as  to  bring  them  into  a 
group,  with  the  view  of  forming  a  nationality. 
This  project  will  not  surprise  any  one,  when 
he  recollects  that  this  immense  territory  is 
occupied  by  the  descendants  of  the  two  first 
powers  of  the  world,  and  that  the  greatest 
portion  of  them  are  of  Norman  and  Breton 
blood.  They  will  also  remember  that  the 
Normans  were  the  most  adventurous  pioneers, 
fit  for  all  hazardous  colonizations,  and  daring 
navigators.  Al'ter  having  establi.<ihed  their 
dominion  over  the  British  Islands,  and  over 
a  part  of  France,  Naples,  Sicily,  even  in 
Jerusalem,  Antioch,  and  near  Constantinople, 
they  crossed  the  ocean  and  established  them- 
selves on  the  Canary  Islands,  and  afterwards 
came  close  on  the  borders  of  the  Saint  Law- 
rence and  the  Mississippi — a  voyago  that 
their  ancestors  had  commenced  in  the  environs 
of  Novgorod,  and  where  a  nucleus  of  their 
race  is  yet  to  bo  found.  The  French  Cana- 
dian countrymen  of  this  Honorable  House 
ought  more  than  others  to  be  proud  of  the 
scheme,  and  it  ought  to  bring  to  their  memory 
that  France  had  once  this  object  in  view,  but 
even  on  a  larger  scale  (having  then  a  territory 
of  1,800  leagues  \  and  of  making  on  this  con- 
tinent a  second  to  herself  by  calling  it  La 
Nouvelle  France.  She  was  then  seconded  in 
this  great  und«'rt.'iking  by  her  best  military 
and  civil  administrators.  Anion;'  the  fore- 
most  was  the  Count  DE  Frontenao,  and  the 
Marquis  of  Denonvim.e,  and  La  Gamsson- 
NlfeliE,  and  also  the  celebrated  Intt'ndant 
Talon.  The  French  Govommcnt  was  then 
laboring  under  the  same  difficulty  of  seeking 
for  an  open  sea-port  in  winter,  so  as  to  avoid 
being  shut  up  by  the  ioe  during  five  month* 


S23 


of  the  year,  having  their  powerful  neighbors, 
as  we  have  now,  to  contend  with.  The  Che- 
valier d'Ibeuville,  one  of  the  brave  sons  of 
Montreal,  the  equal,  as  it  is  admitted  by  the 
best  navy  historians,  of  the  celebrated  Jean 
Bart,  after  having  made,  in  1695,  two  glori- 
ous expeditions  lo  the  Hudson  Bay,  Newfound- 
land, and  to  some  of  the  other  present  Mari- 
time Provinces,  wrote  a  Memoire,  in  1701,  on 
the  situation  of  Boston  and  New  York  and 
other  coasts  of  the  then  British  colonies, 
pointing  out  the  necessity  of  possessing  a  sea- 
port during  winter.  Well,  honorable  gentle- 
men, this  now  may  be  effected  without  shed- 
ding of  blood  or  money,  only  by  securing  the 
Confederation  as  agreed  at  the  Convention  by 
the  most  distinguished  parties  contractantes 
of  these  British  Provinces,  in  extending  the 
present  railroad  from  Riviere  du  Loup  to  the 
Maritime  Provinces,  so  as  to  connect  in  winter 
the  most  remote  parts  of  Western  Canada  to 
the  sea.  The  advantages  to  be  derived  from 
the  annexation  of  these  Maritime  Provinces 
have  been  most  ably  developed  at  the  begin- 
ning of  this  debate  by  the  brilliant  speech  and 
sound  logic  of  the  gallant  Premier,  and  also 
by  other  able  speeches  in  support  of  those 
resolutions.  1  will,  nevertheless,  add  that  the 
Province  of  Canada  will  also  derive  the  im- 
mense advantage  of  beginning  the  nucleus  of 
our  future  milit  iry  being,  particularly  if  you 
get  the  great  assistance  of  the  Imperial  (xov- 
ernment  that  we  are  entitled  to.  Let  us  all 
recollect  that  France  commenced  her  Canadian 
being  by  sending  divers  companies  of  troops 
by  rotation  to  the  present  Maritime  Provinces, 
and  also  to  Louisiana.  Those  companies  were 
•  commanded  by  officers  who  held  the  rank  of 
capitaines  des  detachements  de  lamanne,  equal 
in  rank  to  a  lieutenant-colonel  in  the  army. 
Those  companies  were  in  the  habit  of  being 
trained  for  navy  purposes.  I  entertain  no 
doubt  that  the  frequent  intercourse  with  those 
Maritime  Provinces,  coupled  with  the  navy 
ship  school  that  the  Imperial  Government,  as 
I  understand,  has  the  intention  of  establishing 
at  Quebec,  similar  to  those  in  England  and 
France, will  promote  this  object ;  and  especially 
if  England  open  the  door  of  her  academies  of 
Woolwich  and  Sandhurst  to  our  youths,  as 
France  was  in  the  habit  of  doing  when  pos- 
sessed of  these  colonies — in  admitting,  as 
cadets  de  marine,  at  Brust  and  Rochefort,  the 
sons  of  those  colonists  who,  as  military  and 
civilian  administrators,  had  deserved  such  a 
reward — and,  by  so  doing,  they  formed  a  good 
colonial  navy,  and  it  was  from  it  sprang 
up  those  able  and  brave  officers — the  glory  of 


the  past  history  of  the  French  Canadians ; 
and  the  honor  that  they  had  so  acquired  re- 
flected also  over  Old  France.  Amongst  the 
great  number  whose  memory  ought  not  to  be 
forgotten,  not  only  by  the  people  of  this  Pro- 
vince, but  also  by  the  Maritime  Provinces,  at 
the  birth  and  development  of  a  new  nation, 
and  to  the  defence  of  which  those  men  have 
contributed  by  their  intelligence  and  courage, 
I  will  name,  amongst  others,  Bonaventure, 
SfiviGNY,  Chateauguay,  JD'Allignt,  Til- 
ly, Granville,  Soulanges,  Vaudreuil, 
Beauharnois,  Longueuil,  Repentignt, 
Boishebert,  St.  Ours,  &c.,  &c.  ;  and  many 
of  those  distinguished  navy  officers  became 
governors  not  only  in  the  French  colonies  of 
America  and  India,  but  commanded  also  sea- 
ports in  France.  Benoit,  Chaussegros  de 
LtRY,  the  two  VAUDREUHiS,  and  Pierre 
Bedol'T  rose  to  the  rank  of  Rear  Admiral, 
and  one  of  them,  Rouer  de  la  Cordon- 
Nii;RE,  was  even  complimented  by  Fox  in  the 
English  Parliament,  for  his  generous  and  gal- 
lant conduct  towards  his  enemies.  Now,  hon- 
orable gentlemen,  besides  the  establishment  of 
the  colonial  navy,  we  should  also  promote  the 
military  organization  and  martial  spirit,  the 
natural  accompaniment  and  the  best  safe- 
guard of  freedom,  by  assuming  part  of  the 
military  defences  of  this  colony,  proportioned 
to  our  population  and  revenues,  of  course 
with  the  effective  assistance  of  the  Imperial 
Government.  And  I  hope  that  England  will 
call  out,  to  exercise  the  highest  functions  of 
statesmanship,  such  of  her  subjects  in  those 
colonies  as  will  render  themselves  fit  to  fill 
such  situations  in  future.  Why  should  she 
fiot  even  employ  them  in  the  diplomatic  ser- 
vice, or  as  governors  of  her  other  colonies,  as 
France  did  formerly,  in  granting  those  favors 
for  eminent  services?  And  in  spite  of  the 
intrigues  of  those  near  the  soleil  levant  at  Ver- 
sailles, the  daring  exploits  of  those  brave  col- 
onists, in  that  glorious  struggle  from  1698  to 
1759,  forced  the  French  monarch  to  do  them 
ample  justice,  and  by  so  doing  the  most  of 
the  military  commands  and  governorships 
of  the  French  colonies  fell  into  the  hands  of 
Canadian  born  subjects.  I  have  said  so  much 
to  show  that  the  policy  of  England  ought  to 
have  been  directed  to  promote,  in  these  colonies, 
the  appointments  ia  the  civil  as  well  as  in  the 
military  career  to  her  colonial  subjects,  as 
well  as  those  livinar  in  the  British  Isles. — 
^^Hear,  hear.)  Referring  again  to  the  Mari- 
time Provinces,  I  will  say  to  my  French  Can- 
adian countrymen  that  they  have  too  many 
glorious  pages  in  the  past  history  of  America, 


324 


and  particularly  in  relation  to  these  provinces, 
not  to  feel  a  sympathy  towardn  them,  as  there 
still  exist  a  large  number  of  the  old  Acadians 
wlio  will  feel  proud  to  renew  old  acquaint- 
ance, and  to  live  with  them  as  brothers, 
happy  under  the  protection  of  the  English 
Government.  Let  me  call  to  their  memory 
some  of  the  places  which  were  the  theatre  of 
the  exploits  of  the  brave  officers  I  have  al- 
ready mentioned,  such  as  Port  Royal,  or 
Louisbourg,  now  Annapolis ;  Chebucto,  now 
Halifax  ;  Port  Lajoie,  now  Charlottetown  ; 
L'Isle  Royale,  now  Cape  Breton  ;  Isle  St. 
Jean,  now  Prince  Edward  Island,  &c.,  &c.  I 
hope,  also,  that  the  construction  of  a  good 
route  to  Riviere  Rouge,  the  Rocky  Moun- 
tains and  British  Columbia,  will  bring  those 
places  to  an  easy  access  for  commerce,  trading 
and  agriculture,  to  our  growing  population,  and 
will  prevent  them  emigrating  to  the  United 
States,  as  they  will  find  glorious  souvenirs 
in  the  former  places,  where  their  Canadian 
brothers  have  already  formed  flourishing  agri- 
cultural settlements,  and  opened  up  valuable 
mines.  I  trust  that  my  French  Canadian 
countrymen  in  this  House  will  see  the  advan- 
tage of  adopting  the  resolutions  now  laid  be- 
fore them,  trusting  as  they  should  do  to  the 
good  disposition  of  the  Home  Government,  as 
this  new  Constitution  is  wc-ll  calculated  to 
develope  the  resources  of  this  fine  and  immense 
country.  And  the  best  proof  that  we  are 
taking  the  right  steps  to  secure  our  happiness, 
is  found  amongst  other  articles  hostile  to  Brit- 
ish interests,  in  an  article  of  the  Courrier  des 
EtatgUnis,  when  the  question  of  Confedera- 
tion was  agitated  in  1853,  and  which  runs  as 
follows : — 

« 

^Notwithstanding  all  that  may  be  said,  written 
or  spouted  about  English  tyranny  and  rapacity, 
we  must  acknowledge  that  Great  Britam  has  al 
ways  known  how  to  keej)  up  with  the  spirit  of 
the  age,  and  to  deal  out  privileges  to  her  colon- 
ies by  judicious  iustalinenls. 

Should  this  great  project  be  adopted,  our  im- 
portance would  rise  on  the  continent  of 
Eurppe,  and  we  would  be  on  the  same  footing 
at  least  as  our  American  neighbors,  belonging 
to  a  large  and  important  Confederation,  and 
our  credit  will  rise  in  conse(juence.  The 
Lower  Canadians  will  recollect  that  in  18-40, 
after  the  temporary  suspension  of  the  Act  of 
1791,  England  granted  us  a  new  Constitution. 
They  will  recollect  also  the  anguish,  the  p.mgs 
I'elt  by  them  at  that  period  ;  but  notwitlistaud- 
ing  that  we  had  no  voice  then  in  the  measure 
as  we  have  now,  still  the  rights  and  advan- 
tages granted  us  by  the  capitulation  of  Que- 


bec and  Montreal  and  the  treaty  of  Paris  in 
1763,  have  not  been  abrogated,  and  I  am  of 
opinion  that  by  adopting  those  resolutions, 
our  future  rights  are  as  safe  as  they  were  for- 
merly. (Hear,  hear.)  Before  I  close  I  will 
answer  the  remarks  made  by  the  honorable 
member  for  Lanaudi^re  division,  in  a  speech  a 
few  days  ago,  respecting  the  Monroe  doctrine, 
alleging  that  we  ought  not  to  legislate  upon 
this  delicate  subject,  or  words  to  that  effect. 
I  will  quote  two  letters  lately  discovered  and 
published  by  Monsieur  Pierre  Mergoz, 
Guardian  of  Archives  of  the  Ministry  of  the 
Foreign  Affairs  in  France,  and  his  remarks  on 
these  two  great  honored  navigators  who  dis- 
covered the  Mississippi  and  other  parts  of 
America,  and  which  remarks  are  as  follow  : — 

We  cannot  shut  our  eyes  to  the  affinity  of  the 
intoresis  of  the  present  times  and  those  of  former 
days,  and  which  recommend  the  memory  of  La- 
Salle  and  d'Ibekville.  Iu  J  699  o'Ibervillk 
wrote  on  the  subject  of  Louisiana:  "If  France 
does  not  take  possession  of  this  part  of  Amerca, 
which  is  the  finest,  to  have  a  colony  strong 
enough  to  resist  those  that  England  possesses  in 
the  east  from  Pescadoue  to  the  Caroline,  these 
colonies,  which  are  becoming  very  extensive,  will 
increase  to  such  an  extent  that  in  less  than  a  cen- 
tury they  will  be  strong  enough  to  seize  upon 
the  whole  continent  of  America,  and  to  expel  alt 
other  nations  "  D' Iberville  wrote  again  in 
November,  1702  :  "  What  may  be  said  against 
the  establishment  that  the  king  has  made  at  Mo- 
bile ?  It  is  the  only  one  that  could  sustain  Ame- 
rica against  the  undertakings  of  the  English  on 
this  continent.  In  a  few  years  they  will  be  able 
to  forward  in  fifteen  days,  by  means  of  their  large 
navy,  more  than  20,000  or  30,000  men  upon 
such  of  the  French  islands  as  they  would  be  in- 
clined to  attack,  the  distance  not  being,  at  the 
utmost,  more  than  500  to  600  leagues,  the  wind 
being  generally  favorable  to  carry  them  on  those 
shores,  and  by  land  they  may  reach  iUexico." 
"These  views  (says  Mr.  Mergoz),  together  with 
D  Iberville's  remarks,  will  account  for  tie  na- 
tural uneasiness  felt  by  the  European  powers  at 
what  is  now  taking  place  in  South  America." 

What  I  have  just  quoted  is,  I  believe,  suffi- 
cient to  convince  the  honorable  member  for 
the  Lanaudi^re  Division  that  the  European 
Powers  were  not  disposed,  even  at  those 
remote  times,  to  favor  the  doctrine  now  called 
the  Monroe ;  the  British  colonists  of  those 
times  being  now  replaced  by  our  republican 
neighbors.  Having  said  so  much,  1  will  con- 
clude by  stating  thatjl  shall  vote  for  those  reso- 
lutions as  they  arc  laid  before  us.  (Cheers.) 
Hon.  Mr.  HAMILTON  (InkermmJ— 
Honorable  gentlemen,  so  much  has  been  said 
during  the  course  of  the  present  debate  with 
rofcrenco  to  the  elected  members  of  this  House, 


325 


and  the  rights  of  the  electors  who  sent  us  here, 
that  I  desire  to  make  a  very  few  remarks  to 
explain  why  I,  representing  a  Lower  Canadian 
division,  a  majority  of  whom  will  be  amongst 
the  minority  of  the  Lower  Canada  of  the 
future,  have  decided  that  it  is  my  duty  to  vote 
for  the  resolutions  of  the  Quebec  Conference 
as  they  have  been  laid  before  us  by  the 
Government,  and  consequently  against  all  the 
amendments.  I  am  free  to  confess,  honorable 
gentlemen,  that  there  are  among  the  resolu- 
tions some  that  I  would  have  gladly  seen,  as  I 
conceive,  amended;  but  considering,  from  the 
nature  of  the  thing  itself,  and  therefore  fully 
concurring  in  what  many  of  us  heard  from  an 
eminent  ana  distingTiished  statesman  in  another 
place,  that  the  whole  scheme  of  Confederation 
partook  of  the  nature  of  a  treaty,  into  which, 
as  a  matter  of  course,  the  spirit  of  compromise 
must  largely  enter  ;  and  the  Government  hav- 
ing, as  I  also  consider  they  were  bound  to  do, 
informed  us  we  must  accept  the  scheme  as  a 
whole,  or  reject  it  as  a  whole,  I  conceived  it 
was  my  duty  not  to  be  a  bar  in  the  way, 
however  humble,  of  the  passage  of  the  resolu- 
tions, and  I  came  to  this  conclusion  the  more 
willingly  because  I  have  been  for  a  long  time 
an  advocate  for  a  union  of  the  provinces,  and 
I  have  been  so  because  it  is  indisputable  that 
a  much  greater  share  of  our  self-defence  must 
rest  upon  ourselves  than  heretofore  ;  and 
though  at  the  best  our  means  of  defence  may 
not  be  as  great  as  we  could  wish,  yet  it  must 
be  manifest  they  must  be  greater  by  being 
consolidated  under  one  head.  Some  hon.  gen- 
tlemen, especially  my  neighbor  from  St.  Clair, 
have  ridiculed  the  idea  of  Confederation  in- 
creasing our  powers  of  defence,  inasmuch  as 
imder  the  best  of  circumstances  it  must  take  a 
long  time  to  perfect  our  arrangements ;  but  I 
would  ask  hon.  gentlemen  to  consider  what 
will  be  the  effect  in  England,  as  to  our  defences, 
if  we  reject  or  even  postpone  this  scheme  of 
Confederation,  coming  as  it  would  on  the 
heels  of  a  rejected  Militia  Bill.  During  the 
discussion,  we  have  had,  if  the  term  is  par- 
liamentary and  maybe  uscd,many  fancy  finance 
statements.  Now,  without  disputing  the  cor- 
rectness of  any  of  them,  I  would  ask  the 
honorable  gentlemen  who  have  made  them, 
have  they  made  any  calculation  as  to  the  costs 
we  would  be  at  after  we  had  been  gobbled  up 
by  our  neighbors  south  o*f  45°,  or,  to  use  the 
words  of  the  honorable  and  gallant  Knight  the 
Premier,  after  we  had  slid  down  the  inclined 
plane,  and  become  merged  in  the  neighboring 
republic  ?  I  for  one  would  say  that  such  a 
position  was  altogether  too  contemptible   to 


occupy.  With  reference  to  the  change  doing 
away  with  our  elective  Le.gislative  Council,  of 
which  we  have  heard  so  much,  1  for  one  can 
say  that  I  consider  the  delegates  came  to 
the  only  correct  conclusion,  and  this  is  no  new 
conclusion,  and  involves  no  change  of  opinion 
on  my  part,  for  I  can  appeal  to  an  honorable 
member  of  this  House  as  to  whether,  within 
half  an  hour  of  taking  my  seat  in  it,  I  did 
not  express  the  opinion  that  though  it  was  not 
right  to  speak  ill  of  the  bridge  over  which  one 
had  crossed  safely,  yet  that  I  was  opposed  to 
the  elective  system  as  applied  to  this  House. 
I  also  dissent  from  the  sentiments  I  have  heard 
expressed  by  many  honorable  members  of  this 
House  as  to  our  position  here,  for  I  never 
understood  that  I  came  here  as  the  mere 
delegate  of  the  men  of  Inkerman,  to  vote  just 
as  the  most  active  village  politicians  happened 
to  pull  the  wires  for  me.  No,  gentlemen,  I 
came  here,  as  I  thought,  as  the  representative 
of  my  division,  to  do  my  best  according  to 
my  humble  ability  in  legislating  for  the 
benefit  of  the  whole  country,  and  under  no 
other  circumstances  would  I  have  accepted 
the  position.  I  shall  not  occupy  your  time, 
honorable  gentlemen,  in  saying  that  which  has 
been  better  said  by  others ;  but  thanking  you 
for  the  few  moments'  hearing  you  have  so 
kindly  given  me,  conclude  by  reducing  my 
explanations  as  follows  :  I  vote  for  Confeder- 
ation because  I  consider  it  essential  to  the 
maintenance  of  British  connection,  and  to 
preserve  that,  I  for  one  am  prepared  to  make 
many  sacrifices.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BLAKE— I  feel  it  to  be  my 
duty,  honorable  gentlemen,  to  make  a  few 
remarks  upon  the  general  question  of  Federa- 
tion before  the  vote  is  taken.  A  great  deal 
has  been  said  about  the  manner  in  which  the 
scheme  has  originated.  It  has  been  said  that 
the  honorable  gentlemen  composing  the  Con- 
ference were  self-elected.  Now  1  hold  that 
it  is  most  unfair  to  charge  honorable  gentle- 
men who  have,  as  members  of  a  government, 
entered  into  this  matter  at  the  request  of  His 
Excellency  the  Governor-General,  with  a  sin- 
cere desire  to  do  the  best  that  could  be  done 
for  the  interests  of  Canada,  with  being  too 
precipitate,  especially  when  the  subject  was 
surrounded  with  so  much  difficulty.  Although 
I  have  been  an  advocate  of  a  union  of  the 
provinces  for  very  many  years,  yet  I  am  fully 
prepared  to  admit  that  there  are  some  matters 
of  detail  in  those  resolutions  that  are  very 
distasteful  to  me.  I  refer  particularly  to  the 
abandonment  of  the  elective  principle  in  the 
constitution  of  this  branch  of  the  Legislature. 


326 


I  was  always  in  favor  of  the  elective  principle 
as  applied  to   the  Legislative  Council,  and  a 
very  large  proportion  of  my  constituency  is 
also  in  favor  of  it.     I  am  opposed  to  the  build- 
ing of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,   on  account 
of  the   immense   expenditure   which  it   will 
entail  upon  the  country,  not  only  now,  but 
for  all   time    to   come.      I    think   that    that 
expenditure  will  be  so  great  that  it  will  fall 
very  heavily  on  our  finances,  which  are  now 
so  very  poorly  able  to  bear  the  burden,   and 
that  the  road  will  be  of  very  little  use  to  the 
country.      Much  has  been   said  about  this 
scheme  not  being  understood  by  the  people. 
With  regard  to  that,  I  can  only  speak  of  my 
own  locality.     Before  coming  here,   I  went 
through  my  own  constituency,  and  conversed 
with  a  great  many  leading  men  of  all  political 
parties,  and  all  urged  me  to  go  for  Confedera- 
tion,  without   a    single   exception.       (Hear, 
hear.)     I  pointed  out  the  objections  which  I 
had  to  the  scheme.     I  told  them  that   I   dis- 
approved of  the  elective  principle  being  ignor- 
ed— of    the   building  of    the     Intercolonial 
Railway — and   of  the   increased  expense   of 
maintaining  two  sets  of  government.   I  pointed 
out  all  these  and  other  objections,   but   not- 
withstanding, they  said  that  it  would  be  far 
better  to  take  Federation,  even  as  proposed  by 
the   resolutions,  than   to  remain  as  we  are. 
They  said:   "  The  government  of  the  country 
has  come  to  a  dead-lock;  wehaveseen  onestrong 
party  pitted  against  another  strong  party  ;  we 
have  seen  two  or  three  governments  formed 
that  were  unable  to  pass   a  single  important 
measure,  and  some  change  is  therefore   abso- 
lutely necessary."     The  question  then  arises. 
What  are  we  to  do  ?     Now,  I  would  ask   the 
opponents  of  this  scheme,   if  they  have  any 
other  plan  to  propose  that  will  relieve    the 
country  of  the  difficulties  under  which   it  has 
been  laboring  ?     (Hear,  hear.)      On  the  other 
hand,  we  have  been   told  by  high  authority 
that  we  were  on  the  brink  of  ruin.     We  were 
told  by  the   honorable  and  gallant  Knight  at 
the  head  of  the  Government,  that  we  were  on 
an  "  inclined  plane,"  on  which  we   were  fast 
sliding  into  the  republic  of  the  United  States 
of  America.     I  think  it  is  tlierefore  my  duty 
to  vote  for  tlio  resolutions  as  thoy  stand,  and 
to   vote   for   no    amendments   of  any    kind. 
(^Hear,  hear.)     We  are  told  that  if  we  adopt 
any  amendments  to  the  resolutions,  the  whole 
scheme  must  fall  to  the  ground.     Are   we  to 
go  back  to  the  position  we  formerly  occupied, 
or  will  it  not  be  better  to   accept  these  resolu- 
tions, on  which  a  new  Constitution  may  be 
formed  ?     It'  it  is  not  formed  to  suit  us,  wc 


can  alter  it  hereafter.  It  is  not,  I  apprehend, 
to  be  like  the  laws  of  the  Medes  and  Persians, 
totally  unalterable.  The  Constitutions  of 
Great  Britain,  of  the  United  States,  and  of 
the  different  civilized  nations  now  in  existence 
have  been  altered,  and  why  are  we  to  expect 
that  these  resolutions  are  a  finality  ?  Gentle- 
men, the  Constitution  of  the  Confederation 
can  be  altered  in  future  as  easily  aa  our 
present  Constitution  has  been  altered.  I  hope 
this  scheme  will  go  into  effect  at  an  early 
period,  and  I  trust  it  will  be  productive  of  a 
vast  amount  of  good  to  our  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Honorable  gentlemen  say  it  is  a 
revolution.  It  may  be  a  revolution,  but 
certainly  it  is  not  so  violent  a  one  as  was 
proposed  in  1837  and  1833.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  has  been  a  great  deal  of  heavy  artillery 
brought  into  play  since  this  debate  began,  but 
I  hope  that  the  revolution  will  be  carried  out 
without  the  shedding  of  blood.  (Hear,  hear 
and  laughter.)  I  am  prepared  to  give  my 
vote  for  the  scheme.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  READ  next  addressed  the 
House.  He  said  —  Honorable  gentlemen,  I 
have  voted  for  delay  in  the  passage  of  these 
resolutions,  believing  that  to  be  my  duty ;  and 
if  I  have  been  wrong  in  doing  so,  it  has  been 
through  want  of  judgment.  I  have  had  no 
other  intention  in  so  doing  than  to  promote 
the  best  interests  of  the  country.  A-,  how- 
ever, I  observe  that  a  large  mnjority  of  this 
House  entertains  a  different  opinion,  I  shall 
no  longer  attempt  to  mar  the  scheme,  but 
shall  give  it  my  support  when  the  time  for 
voting  upon  it  arrives.  (Hear,  hear,  and 
cheers.)  I  never  intended  to  mar  it,  but  I 
wished  to  be  sure  that  the  country  was  satis- 
fied with  it,*  and  would  appreciate  it  when 
they  got  it.  (Hear.)  I  think  human  nature 
is  the  same  now  as  it  always  was  and  always 
will  be.  As  the  hon.  Premier  and  the  hon. 
Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands  have  used 
sonic  comparisons  with  reference  to  the  pro- 
posed union,  I  have  also  a  comparison  to 
make.  They  said  that  a  union  could  not  be 
effected  without  some  sacrifices — a  little  giving 
and  taking  all  round.  I  think  so  too,  but  I 
think  there  is  a  different  way  in  which  this 
proposed  union  must  be  viewed.  I  compare 
Canada  to  a  young  man  who  has  had  guar- 
dians appointed  to  take  care  of  his  estate; 
but  having  arrived  at  that  age  that  his  guar- 
dians think  it  is  time  he  should  be  married, 
they  arrange  a  matrimouiid  alliance  for  him. 
He  is  all  the  time  looking  on,  and  expecting 
to  be  asked  how  the  arrangement  suits  him. 
But  in  this  case  it  appears  he  is  not  to  be 


327 


asked  at  all.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  they  have 
all  things  in  readiness,  he  says  to  himself: 
''  You  may  have  power  to  marry  me,  but  you 
cannot  make  me  live  happily."  Now,  had  he 
been  consulted,  he  would  probably  have  made 
the  same  choice  and  have  been  fully  satisfied 
with  the  alliance.  As  human  nature  is  always 
the  same,  I  have  thoug'ht  these  were  sufficiently 
strong  reasons  for  wishing  to  have  some  delay, 
in  order  that  the  people,  after  the  matter  was 
fully  before  them,  might  cordially  enter  into 
the  proposed  union.  I  am  favorably  impressed 
with  a  great  many  of  the  resolutions  compos- 
ing this  measure.  I  cannot,  however,  agree 
with  my  hon.  friend  from  Toronto  (Hon.  Mr. 
Ross),  that  Upper  Canada  would  build  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  herself  rather  than  be 
without  it.  Upper  Canada  does  not  produce 
anything  that  can  be  profitably  taken  over 
tl  e  road.  There  is  no  alternative,  however, 
but  to  build  it,  if  Confederation  is  to  be 
carried  out.  In  1862,  we  had  a  good  bargain 
thrown  open  to  us,  but  as  we  refused  to  accept 
it  at  the  time,  we  cannot  now  get  it  without 
paying  a  higher  price.  Along  with  the  ma- 
trimonial alliance  into  which  we  are  about  to 
enter,  there  will  be  fresh  responsibilities,  and 
I  really  do  not  think  the  country  is  quite 
prepared  for  them.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) It  seems  we  are  pretty  certain  to  form 
the  alliance,  and  it  is  equally  certain  that 
those  little  responsibilities  will  immediately 
spring  up.  (Laughter.)  I  think,  however, 
that  we  must  call  them  great  responsibilities, 
and  I  repeat,  much  greater  than  we  are  pre- 
pared for.  I  would  make  a  groat  sacrifice  for 
the  defence  of  the  country,  but  if  England 
tells  us  we  must  do  more  than  the  country  is 
able  to  do,  I  do  not  think  we  will  be  willing 
to  submit  to  it.  We  are  prepared  to  do  all 
we  can,  but  I  am  not  prepared  to  go  to  such 
an  enormous  expense  as  to  involve  our  country 
in  such  debt  as  will  render  it  an  undesirable 
place  to  live  in.  With  Confederation  we  will 
have  to  go  to  great  expense,  not  only  for  our 
defences  and  our  militia,  but  also  for  a  navy ; 
because  I  believe  that,  as  soon  as  the  Ameri- 
cans put  an  increased  number  of  gun-boats 
on  the  lakes,  we  will  have  to  put  on  an  equal 
number,  and  it  is  very  doubtful  to  me  if  we 
can  aflFord  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Where  is  the 
money  to  come  from  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— Yes— where  is  the 
money  to  come  from  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  READ — We  are  now  very 
heavily  taxed,  and  have  a  heavy  bill  to  pay 
for  interest  on  our  large  debt.  I  would  like 
to  see  the  Government  adopt  some  method  by 


which  this  interest  should  not  go  out  of  the 
country.  I  do  not  like  to  see  so  much  bor- 
rowed from  abroad.  Interest  is  a  thing  that 
accumulates  very  rapidly,  and  it  has  to  be 
paid  regularly.  If  some  system  could  be  de- 
vised by  which  this  borrowing  from  abroad 
could  be  stopped,the  Federation  scheme  would 
suit  me  much  better,  especially  when  we  con- 
sider that  the  taxes  of  the  people  of  this 
country,  per  head,  have  been  running  up  at 
an  alarming  rate — from  one  dollar  to  three — 
since  the  union,  in  1841.  It  seems  that  the 
Confederation  is  to  increase  our  taxes ;  that 
fact  is  generally  admitted,  independent  of  the 
expense  of  building  the  Intercolonial  Railway. 
I  do  not  see  where  all  the  money  is  to  come 
from,  but  I  dare  say  the  Finance  Minister 
will  find  out  some  means  of  raising  it  by  in- 
creased taxation.  When  the  final  vote  comes 
on,  I  shall  be  prepared  to  support  the  motion 
rather  than  have  it  rejected  altogether,  and 
shall  press  my  opposition  no  further.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— Honorable  gentle- 
men,  I  rise  to  move — 

That  the  followinnr  words  be  added  to  the  main 
motion  :  '"  Provided  always,  that  His  Excel- 
lency the  Governor  General  be  prayed  to  with- 
hold the  transmission  of  the  said  Address  until 
the  said'  resolutions  shall  have  been  approved  of 
by  the  electors  of  this  province,  qualified  to  vote 
under  th  Act  22  Vic,  cap.  6,  to  be  signified  by 
a  direct  vote  on  the  said  resolution,  to  be  taken 
in  the  various  municipalities  throuohout  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada." 

Hon.  Mr.  DICKSON— I  am  desirous  of 
calling  to  the  notice  of  the  House  the  fact 
that  this  amendment  appears  on  the  face  of  it 
to  embody  the  same  principle  as  the  amend- 
ment proposed  by  the  honorable  member  op- 
posite (Hon.  Mr.  Currie),  and  seconded  by 
myself,  and  which,  after  a  long  and  somewhat 
tedious  discussion,  was  decided  in  the  negative. 
I  would  like  to  know,  therefore,  whether  the 
amendment  is  in  order.  I  do  not  oppose  it, 
■  ut  if  it  is  not  in  order,  time  will  be  saved  by 
disposing  of  it  at  once,  and  I  rise  to  obtain 
the  Speaker's  decision  upon  the  point. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSS— The  objection  of  the 
honorable  member  is,  I  think,  conclusive  with 
regard  to  the  amendment.  It  appears  to  be 
the  same  in  principle  as  that  moved  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Niagara,  and  seems  to 
me  to  be  out  of  order. 

Hon.  Mr.  BUREAU— I  tliink  the  motion 
is  in  order.  It  declares  that  before  the  scheme 
is  finally  adopted,  it  shall  be  referred  to  the 
people,  for  them  to  vote  yea  or  nay  upon  it. 


328 


No  such  amendment  has  before  been  offered 
in  this  House. 

The  Hon.  the  SPEAKER— The  motion 
proposed  in  amendment  to  the  main  motion 
by  Hon.  Mr.  Currie  was  in  the  following 
words: — "  That  in  a  matter  of  such  great  im- 
portance as  the  proposed  Confederation  of  this 
and  certain  other  British  Colonies,  this  House 
is  unwilling  to  assume  the  responsibility  of 
assenting  to  a  measuie  involving  so  many  im- 
portant considerations,  without  a  further  man- 
ifestation of  the  public  will  than  has  yet  been 
declared."  Now,  the  present  motion  is — 
"  That  His  Excellency  the  Governor  General 
be  prayed  to  withhold  the  transmission  of  the 
said  Address  untU  the  said  resolutions  shall 
have  been  approved  of  by  the  electors  of  this 
province,  qualified  to  vote  under  the  Act  22 
Vic,  cap.  6,  to  be  signified  by  a  direct  vote 
on  the  said  resolution,  to  be  taken  in  the 
various  municipalities  throughout  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada."  Although  there  may  be 
some  similarity,  still  it  is  not  substantially  the 
same  motion.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  "  further 
manifestation  of  the  public  will  "  may  be 
quite  a  different  thing  from  the  manifestation 
of  that  will  by  a  direct  vote,  as  provided  for 
by  this  amendment.  I  believe,  therefore,  that 
the  motion  is  in  order  ;  and,  as  in  a  case  of 
this  kind  it  is  my  opinion  that  a  liberal  in- 
terpretation of  the  rules  and  practice  of  the 
House  should  be  made,  I  cannot  declare  that 
the  amendment  is  included  in  the  motion  de- 
cided by  the  House  yesterday.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— It  will  have  been 
observed  that  the  course  of  this  debate  has 
taken  a  most  extraordinary  turn.  At  first, 
honorable  members  addressed  the  House  in 
favor  of  the  resolutions — members  of  the 
Government  more  especially,  and  then  some 
honorable  gentlemen  supporting  them ;  but 
latterly  we),have  heard  several  honorable  gen- 
tlemen expressing  their  views  very  strongly  and 
emphatically  against  many  of  the  resolutions 
embraced  in  the  scheme  of  Confederation,  but 
while  expressing  themselves  so  strongly,  they 
seemed  to  feel  it  to  be  their  duty  to  support 
it  as  a  whole.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  it  strikes 
me,  and  I  trust  it  will  strike  some  otlier  hon- 
orable members,  also,  that  we  have  been 
elected  to  this  Legislature  with  a  view  to 
perfect  as  far  as  possible  every  scheme  or  pro- 
position that  may  properly  come  before  it. 
If  we  have  views  on  a  particular  measure 
which  would  lead  us  to  propose  amcndiueiits 
for  the  purpose  of  making  it  different  in  shapi' 
0"  scope  iVum  wh.it  it  is  when  first  introduced, 
I  maintain  that  it  is  our  duty  to  express  our 


views  in  that  direction — not  taking  the  mea- 
sure without  looking  fairly  and  impartially 
into  it,  or  accepting  it  in  the  belief  that  we 
have  no  right  to  dispute  or  alter  any  portion 
of  it.  For  my  part,  I  look  upon  the  scheme 
now  before  the  House  as  upon  the  whole  very 
different  from  what  we  had  a  right  to  expect 
from  the  members  of  the  present  Government. 
They  have  been  strongly  supported  in  both 
Houses  of  Parlinment  and  in  the  country, 
and  I  do  not  desire  to  see  any  difficulty  thrown 
in  their  way,  or  anything  done  calculated  to 
lessen  their  support  in  the  Legislature ;  but 
at  the  same  time  I  do  say  that,  with  the  sup- 
port and  confidence  they  have  received,  they 
ought  to  have  brought  forward  a  better  scheme 
than  til  at  which  they  have  presented  to  the 
House  and  country.  Why,  take  the  question 
of  the  Intercolonial  Railroad  involved  in  these 
resolutions,  and  what  do  we  find  ?  More  than 
two  years  ago  the  governments  of  the  provin- 
ces of  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia  made 
a  proposition  to  the  Canadian  Government  to 
build  this  road  and  pay  seven-twelfths  of 
the  cost,  Canada  to  pay  the  remaining  five- 
twelfths.  Well,  what  arrangement  have  we 
now — what  has  time  brought  about — what 
advantages  have  these  two  years  gained  for 
us?  This,  that  the  Government  of  Canada 
come  down  to  the  Legislature  with  a  scheme 
according  to  which  Canada  will  have  to  pay 
towards  the  construction  of  this  road  nine- 
twelfths  of  the  entire  amount,  and  the  other 
provinces  the  balance — thus  involving  addi- 
tional expense  on  the  part  of  Canada  to  the 
amount  of  several  millions  of  dollars — certainly 
not  less  than  six  millions  to  build  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway  alone — more  than  was  de- 
manded of  us  two  years  ago — and  a  total 
additional  expenditure  that  will  add  to  the 
annual  taxation  of  Canada  more  than  a  mil- 
lion and  a  half  of  dollars  for  all  time  to  come. 
This  heavy  expenditure  over  the  proposition 
made  two  years  ago  has,  therefore,  been  need- 
lessly undertaken.  It  is  admitted,  even  by 
the  promoters  of  this  scheme,  that  the  east- 
ern provinces  will  benefit  far  more  largely 
than  Canada  by  the  construction  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway.  It  is  admitted  by  tlie  best 
commercial  men  who  have  spoken  upon  the 
subject,  that  as  a  commercial  undertaking  it 
will  not  pay.  It  is  admitted  that  it  will  be 
of  little  or  no  value  whatever  as  a  defensive 
work.  This  being  the  case,  why  then  rush 
into  this  large  expenditure  with  such  precipi- 
tancy ;  why  not,  at  least,  postpone  its  passage 
ill  order  to  get  a  measure  of  a  more  perfect 
character,  and  one  more  in  harmony  with  the 


329 


wishes  of  the  people  chiefly  interested  ?  Hon- 
orable gentlemen  who  betray  such  anxiety  to 
press  this  scheme  at  once  should  remember 
that  we  are  not  voting  away  our  own  but  the 
people's  money,  and  that  this  should  not  be 
done  to  the  extent  that  is  now  proposed, 
without  consulting  their  wishes  in  the  matter. 
This  the  law  requires  before  a  municipal 
council  can  make  any  special  grant  of  money. 
In  such  cases  a  vote  of  the  people  "has  to  be 
taken,  which  is  conclusive  as  to  whether  the 
proposed  expenditure  shall  be  incurred  or  not ; 
and  yet  we  are  here  passing  a  measure  of  vast- 
ly greater  importance  to  them,  a  measure  in- 
volving a  revolution  in  our  political  affairs — a 
measure  involving  an  immense  outlay  of  money 
without  asking  whether  the  people  are  favorable 
to  it  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  maintain,  honor- 
able gentlemen,  that  before  it  is  finally  passed 
upon,  the  whole  question  should  be  submit- 
ted to  the  people,  and  that  the  law  which  re- 
quires a  reference  to  them  in  minor  matters, 
should  be  extended  in  a  matter  which  so  near- 
ly concerns  their  future  condition  and  pros- 
perity. The  people  of  the  eastern  provinces 
have  very  little  to  complain  of  in  the  plan  of 
Confederation  proposed.  The  fact  is,  they 
will  be  largely  the  gainers  by  it,  if  it  is 
carried  out.  In  Nova  Scotia  and  New  Bruns- 
wick, the  members  of  the  governments  of 
thoie  provinces,  and  other  public  men,  see  the 
great  advantage  they  have  gained  over  Cana- 
da, and  are  not  slow  to  set  them  before  the 
people.  They  are  naturally  anxious  that  the 
scheme  shall  be  carried  as  speedily  as  pos- 
sible, and  are  making  every  effort  in  this  di- 
rection, for  under  it  unprofitable  local  works 
in  those  provinces  are  assumed  and  paid  for 
by  the  General  Government;  such,  for  in- 
stance, as  the  railways  of  New  Brunswick, 
which,  before  five  years  go  round,  will,  I  have 
no  doubt,  be  run  at  very  considerable  cost  be- 
yond the  returns  they  will  yield  to  the  Gene- 
ral Government.  The  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  in 
a  speech  to  the  electors  of  St.  John,  sets  forth 
the  advantages  to  be  gained  by  New  Bruns- 
wick by  the  union,  as  follows : — 

New  Brunswick  is  allowed  to  enter  the  Confed- 
eration with  a  debt  of  seven  millions,  and  Nova 
tcotia  with  a  debt  of  eight  millions.  Now,  what 
was  the  nature  of  the  iirraugement  by  which  we 
came  iu  ?  It  was  found  that  the  debt  of  Canada 
was  not  much  larger  per  head  than  that  of  New 
Brunswick.  We  came  in  on  better  terms  than 
that  province. 

Mr.  Tilley  then  proceeds  to  show  how  New 
Brunswick  gained  a  clear  advantage  of  $610,- 
000  a  year  for  all  time  to  come  on  the  Interco- 

43 


lonial  Railway  alone.  So  much  better  are  the 
terms  to  that  province  under  the  Intercolonial 
scheme  than  those  upon  which  they  offered 
themselves  to  join  us  in  building  that  road, 
two  years  ago,  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  says  : — 

Of  the  cost  of  that  road  (the  Intercolonial  Rail' 
way)  New  Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia  had  guar' 
anteed  the  provincial  credit  for  seven-twelftbs, 
and  Canada  for  five-twelfths.  Now,  if  the  Con- 
federation would  build  the  road,  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia  would  he  relieved  of  the  inter- 
est on  the  s?ven  millions,  amounting  to  $420,000, 
as  well  as  upon  the  interest  of  the  three  and  a 
half-twelfths  of  the  three  millions  sterling, 
amounting  to  $190,000,  making  in  all  $010,000 
provided  for  by  the  General  Government. 

This  liberal  bribe  to  bring  New  Bi'unswick 
into  the  union,  one  would  think,  was  quite 
enough  to  satisfy  the  little  province  ;  but  Hon. 
Mr.  Tilley  adds  : — 

Over  and  above  all  these  advantages,  we  get 
for  ten  years  a  subsidy  of  $63,000  per  anuum. 
Our  local  expenditures  summed  up  amount  to 
$;-!20,630,  and  we  get  from  the  General  Govern- 
ment, without  increased  taxation,  $90,0(.0,  in 
lieu  of  our  impoit  duty  and  casual  territorial 
revenue,  80  cents  per  head  on  the  population, 
making  $201,037,  and  a  special  subsidy  of 
SC3,000  a  year  for  ten  years,  making  in  all 
$354,G:]7,  being  $34,000  over  and  above  our 
J.  resent  necessities. 

These  (says  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley)  are  the  prin- 
cipal points  looked  to.  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  is 
very  candid,  and  acknowledges  these  advan 
tages  in  the  name  of  "subsidies."  He  further 
assures  his  audience  in  the  following  words  : — 

But  we  are  asked,  what  guarantee  have  you  that 
you  will  continue  to  receive  these  subsidies  pro- 
mised by  the  General  Government?  Most  un- 
questionable securitv — we  are  not  at  the  mercy  of 
the  Canadians.  *  *  So  close  is  the  contest 
between  parties  in  the  Canadian  Legislature,  that 
even  the  five  Prince  Edward  Island  members  by 
their  votes,  could  turn  victory  on  whatever  side 
they  choose,  and  have  the  game  entirely  in  tbeir 
own  hands. 

This  is  the  success  with  which  Hon.  Mr.  Til- 
ley has  acted  on  behalf  of  the  people  of  New 
Brunswick,  and  I  think  the  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands,  when  he  reflects  upon  the  ad- 
vantages that  the  eastern  provinces  have  re- 
ceived over  those  obtained  by  Canada,  will 
admit  that  I  was  not  far  astray  the  other  day 
when  I  said  that  our  public  men  had  acted 
with  a  great  deal  of  recklessness.  It  appears 
to  me  that  they  went  to  work  with  the  deter- 
mination to  get  Confederation — to  get  it  on 
fair  terms  if  they  could,  but  to  get  it  on  anj^ 
terms  that  might  be  found  necessary  to  con- 


330 


cede  to  the  Lower  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Another  of  the  delegates  to  the  Quebec  Con- 
ference, Hon.  Mr.  Whelan,  of  Prince  Edward 
Island,  enumerates  all  the  advantages  that 
will  be  secured  to  that  province  by  Confeder- 
ation, and  winds  up  by  saying,  that  that  little 
island  will  have  $40,000  a  year  more  than 
necessary  to  carry  on  its  local  affairs.  (Hear.) 
Taking  all  these  circumstances  into  consider- 
ation, I  do  think  the  Government  ought  to  have 
given  more  time  to  deliberate  upon  and  perfect 
this  measure  ;  and,  at  any  rate,  to  leave  it 
over  till  another  session  of  Parliament  before 
demanding  a  final  decision  upon  the  question. 
Failing  to  do  that,  and  failing  to  consent 
to  any  alteration  iu  any  one  of  the  reso- 
lutions, however  objectionable,  I  think  it 
it  is  our  duty  to  refer  it  to  the  people 
for  their  decision  upon  it.  I  know  I  will 
be  met  with  the  objection  that  this  is  con- 
trary to  British  practice — that  a  reference 
to  the  people  in  the  manner  I  propose  is 
unknown  to  the  British  Constitution.  We 
may  say  the  same  thing  in  regard  to  every 
branch  of  legislation  and  public  business  in 
this  country,  that  it  differs  in  some  respects 
from  the  mode  of  conducting  it  which  pre- 
vails in  England;  but  we  must  remember 
that  we  are  differently  situated  in  this  coun- 
try from  the  people  of  England,  and  that  our 
feelings  and  habits  of  thought  upon  public 
affairs  arc  altogether  different.  And  since  we 
have  adopted  the  principle  in  the  conduct  of 
our  municipal  affairs,  to  refer  all  matters  in- 
volving the  expenditure  of  money  for  special 
purposes  to  the  people,  it  will  do  no  possible 
harm  to  apply  it  to  this  measure ;  and  if  the 
people  adopt  it,  and  it  should  afterwards  prove 
that  they  had  entered  into  a  bad  bargain, 
they  would  have  no  one  to  blame  but  them- 
selves, and  I  have  no  doubt  would,  under 
such  circumstances,  bear  it  more  patiently. 
But  if  we  take  the  opposite  course,  if  we 
close  this  arrangement  on  terms  disadvan- 
tageous to  us,  it  will  be  many  years  before  a 
change  can  be  effected.  Would  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island,  at  the  demand  of  Canada,  give 
up  the  lien,  the  constitutional  right  she  will 
have  obtained  under  this  scheme,  to  the 
money  she  receives  over  and  above  what  is 
necessary  to  meet  her  local  requirements? 
Not  at  all.  Would  Newfoundland  give  up 
her  bonus  of  $100,000  a  year  for  all  time, 
should  the  looked  ibr  coal  not  be  found  to 
pay?  Not  a  bit  of  it.  Would  Nova  Sculi.i 
give  up  her  right  to  impose  an  export  duly 
on  coals  and  other  minerals,  because  Canada 
found  that  this  right  gave  her  undue  advan- 


j  tages  ?  Certainly  not.  Would  New  Bruns- 
wick surrender  her  right  to  levy  an  export, 
duty  on  timber,  or,  at  the  call  of  Canada, 
give  any  extra  assistance  towards  the  construc- 
tion of  the  Intercolonial  Rnilway,  which  will 
benefit  her  far  more  largely  than  any  of  the 
other  provinces,  inasmuch  as  it  will  open  up 
a  large  tract  of  country  within  her  borders, 
and  render  the  land  and  timber  it  contains 
far  more  valuable  ?  Undoubtedly  she  would 
not ;  we  would  have  to  abide  by  our  agree- 
ment, no  matter  how  invidious  might  be  the 
advantages  it  conferred,  uo  matter  how  un- 
favorably it  might  affect  western  interests. 
(Hear,  hear. )  The  complaint  that  has  been 
made  against  the  working  of  the  present  union 
is  that  in  Lower  Canada  ihe  people  do  not 
pay  as  much  in  taxes  to  the  general  rev- 
enue, man  for  man,  as  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada.  It  was  contended,  I  believe,  by 
tLe  jio^ent  Attorney  General  East,  at  a 
speech  delivered  some  years  since  to  his  con- 
stituents at  Verch^res,  that  the  expenditure 
for  the  redemption  of  seigniorial  rights  did  not 
affect  Lower  Canada  very  much,  because 
Upper  Canada  paid  two-thirds  of  the  revenue 
of  the  country  ;  and  all  the  advocates  of  the 
we -tern  section,  who  have  ursjed  its  rifrhts 
before  the  people,  have  taken  the  ground  that 
it  contributed  in  that  proportion  to  the  public 
exchequer.  Now,  if  there  be  any  truth  in 
this  statement,  it  must  foLow  that  under  this 
arrangement  Canada,  at  all  events,  will  have 
to  pay  more,  man  for  man,  than  the  eastern 
provinces  to  the  general  revenue,  because  it 
cannot  be  contended,  I  apprehend,  that  Prince 
Edward  Island,  Newfoundland,  or  either  oi" 
the  other  Maritime  Provinces,  however  pros- 
p.TOUS  their  condition  may  be,  have  a  popula- 
tion as  wealthy  as  that  of  Upper  Can:ida,  or 
one  that  will  contribute  as  tuuch  in  taxes  to 
the  General  Government.  If  then,  during  the 
past,  Lower  Canada  has  paid  less  than  Upper 
Canada  to  the  revenue,  while  enjoying  the 
benefit  of  as  large  or  perhaps  a  larger  expen- 
diture than  that  section,  what  is  propo.^cJ  to 
be  done  now  ?  Wliy,  to  remove  tliat  diffi- 
culty which  led  almost  to  a  dead-lock  in  our 
legislation,  to  get  rid  of  the  embarra.ssment3 
that  have  beset  the  Government  of  this  coun- 
try for  many  years  past,  we  are  asked  to  adopt 
a  scheme  that  will  perpetuate  them  on  a  larger 
scale  than  before,  and  involve,  in  tlio  con- 
struction of  the  Intercolonial  R  lilway  alone, 
the  cxpenditiiro  i»f  a  niillion  or  a  million  and 
a  hall"  annually  for  over.  (Hear,  hear.)  How 
absurd  then  to  urge  on  this  .scheme  without  at 
least  sharing  the  responsibility  of  it  with  the 


331 


people  ?  Why  not  take  time  and  maturely 
consider  it  ?  Why  not  submit  it  to  the 
verdict  of  those  who  have  to  pay  its  cost, 
and  if  they  accept  it,  let  them  bear  the  con- 
sequences. (Hear,  hear.)  With  regard  to 
the  constitution  of  the  Upper  House  of  the 
proposed  General  Legislature,  a  good  deal 
has  been  said,  but  I  think  the  main  point  has 
too  often  been  lost  sight  of.  The  course 
of  the  debate  upon  these  resolutions  has 
seemed  to  run  in  some  instances  as  though 
we  regarded  a  membership  of  this  branch  of 
the  Legislature  a  position  which  we  ought  to 
occupy  by  right,  as  though  we  had  some  sort 
of  a  constitutional  right  to  remain  here,  and 
as  though  governments  and  parliamentary 
bodies  were  instituted  by  the  people,  not  for 
the  benefit  of  the  community,  but  for  the  ad- 
vancement of  those  who  compose  them.  We 
would  seem  to  have  overlooked  a  fundamental 
principle  df  all  free  governments,  that  govern- 
ments should  be  carried  on  for  the  good  of  the 
governed ;  and  the  principle  of  responsible 
government,  according  to  which  government 
must  be  carried  on  according  to  the  well-un- 
derstood  wishes  of  the  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  McCEEA — As  expressed  by 
their  representatives. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— As  expressed,  my 
honorable  friend  says,  by  their  representa- 
tives. Very  well ;  we  must  remember  that 
those  who  constitute  the  Government  of  this 
country  have  brought  down  here  a  very  curi- 
ous scheme,  and  have  held  out  to  you  the  in- 
ducement that  if  you  support  it  you  have  a 
chance  of  being  appointed  for  life  to  the  seat 
you  occupy  ;  and  there  is  thus  a  probability 
of  your  being  blinded  to  what  you  owe  to  the 
people,  of  your  ignoring  the  constituencies 
that  sent  you  here,  and  of  your  forgetting  the 
duty  you  owe  to  the  country.  Now,  I  hold 
with  regard  to  the  elective  principle  in  this 
House,  that  the  oftener  a  man  is  brought  in 
contact  with  the  people  in  a  legitimate  way, 
to  learn  their  wishes  as  constitutionally  and 
properly  expressed,  the  more  likely  he  is  to 
use  his  influence  and  talent  in  conducting  the 
government  in  such  a  manner  as  to  secure  the 
liappiness  and  prosperity  of  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  said  that,  as  you  have  a 
responsible  government,  the  Government  of 
the  day  will  be  held  responsible  to  the  people, 
through  their  representatives  in  the  lower 
branch  of  the  Legislature  for  the  appoint- 
ments, it  may  make  to  this  House.  Admitting 
this  to  be  the  case,  we  know  what  the  ten- 
dency is  in  England,  and  what  it  was 
j.n    this     country    whejJ     the     Government 


had  the  appointment  of  the  members  of  the 
Legislative  Council ;  the  effect  will  be  to  find 
a  place  in  this  House  for  men  distinguished 
for  the  aid  they  have  given  at  elections  to  cer- 
tain men  or  parties,  and  not  as  a  reward  of 
true  merit  or  legislative  ability.  Further- 
more, if  this  House  is  to  be  of  any  value  at 
all,  it  is  as  affording  a  wholesome  check  over 
hasty  and  unwise  legislation.  But  if  you 
place  the  whole  legislation  of  the  country  in 
the  hands  of  a  single  man  or  body,  I  care  not 
whether  it  is  democratic  or  aristrocratic  in  its 
tendencies,  a  power  like  that  in  the  hands  of 
the  Executive  to  create  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil is  a  dangerous  one.  Unrestrained  or  un- 
checked action  by  a  single  elected  body  of  the 
most  democratic  character  is  apt  to  go  astray 
if  they  feel  they  have  only  themselves  to  con- 
sult. This  is  what  is  proposed  to  be  done 
under  this  scheme ;  but  let  this  House  be 
elected,  as  before,  by  the  people;  let  them  be 
returned  for  a  period  of  eight  years  as  at  pre- 
sent, or  even  longer  if  desired,  and  then,  if 
there  is  a  demand  for  legislation  of  a  selfish 
or  ill-considered  character — a  demand  which, 
founded  on  ignorance  or  passion,  is  likely  to 
right  itself  after  the  lapse  of  a  few  years — the 
members  of  this  House  would  take  the  re- 
sponsibility upon  themselves  of  rejecting  it, 
and  public  opinion  would  eventually  sustain 
them  and  acknowledge  that  they  have  done 
some  service  to  the  country.  But  inasmuch 
as  you  appoint  these  members  for  life,  you 
have  no  check  over  them,  nor  are  they  so 
likely  to  check  legislation  of  an  immature  and 
ill-considered  character.  While  the  Ministry 
of  the  day  which  appoints  them  remains  in 
power,  it  will  expect  and  receive  a  cordial 
support  from  them ;  but  let  it  be  defeated,  and 
a  ministry,  formed  out  of  the  opposite  party, 
obtain  office,  there  will  certainly  be  difficulty 
— there  will  be  a  tendency  to  dead-locks  be- 
tween the  two  branches  of  the  legislature,  and 
a  repetition  of  those  scenes  which  were  wit- 
nessed in  this  country  some  years  ago,  and 
which  formed  one  of  the  principal  causes  that 
brought  about  the  rebellion  of  1837.  Honor- 
able gentlemen  say  that  we  will  have  the 
power  to  remedy  those  defects  in  the  scheme 
if  they  are  found  to  be  injurious  in  their  ac- 
tion, but  it  is  well  known  from  the  experience 
of  the  past  that  no  power  can  be  brought  to 
bear  to  bring  about  any  change  that  may  be 
required,  without  n  great  deal  of  agitation 
and  labor.  What  has  been  the  agitation  to 
secure  a  change  in  the  representation  of  the 
two  sections  of  Canada  in  Parliament  ?  It 
has  been  going  on  for  ten  or  twelve  years, 


332 


and  yet,  on  the  eve  of  accomplishment,  those 
who  have  advocated  it  have  not  effected 
u  change  of  the  nature  that  was  desired, 
but  have  jumped  into  a  new  and  totally 
different  scheme,  that  really  seems  to  mc 
to  have  been  brought  about  for  the  sole 
purpose  of  advancing  their  own  personal  aims, 
rather  than  satisfying  any  demand  on  the 
part  of  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon- 
orable and  gallant  Knight  at  the  head  of  the 
Government  stated  that  we  were  on  an  in- 
clined plane,  and  in  danger  of  sliding  into  the 
republicanism  of  the  United  States.  Tliis 
phrase  has  been  referred  to  so  often  by  honor- 
able members  who  have  spoken,  and  so  many 
deductions  have  been  drawn  from  it,  that  I 
may  perhaps  be  permitted  to  say  a  few  words 
upon  it.  I  think  all  must  see  that  the  ten- 
dency of  the  scheme  now  before  the  House 
will  be  in  a  few  years  to  impose  direct  taxation 
upon  the  people  for  the  support  of  the  local 
governments.  Let  us  then  have  direct  taxa- 
tion, and  what  will  be  the  result  ?  If  there  is 
a  large  expenditure  on  the  part  of  the  Gen- 
eral Government,  in  addition  to  this  taxation, 
political  agitators  will  arise,  who  will  cry  out 
that  the  public  burdens  are  unequally  borne 
— (hear) — that  two-thirds  of  the  revenue  is 
borne  by  the  people  living  west  of  Quebec — 
that   is,    the   population    west    of    this  city 


will,  man 


for    man,  pay    twice    as    much  to 


the  public  exchequer  as  the  population  east 
of  it.  There  will  undoubtedly  be  the  same 
tendency,  under  sucli  a  state  of  things,  as  has 
been  charged  to  exist  on  the  part  of  the  Lower 
Canadian  representatives  since  the  union  was 
Ibrmed — namely,  a  tendency  on  the  part  of 
those  wbu  pay  the  smaller  portion  of  the  re- 
venue to  spend  the  public  money  freely  and 
extravagantly.  They  will  naturally  say  when 
any  appropriation  is  proposed  for  their  own 
section — "  We  will  go  for  this  expenditure, 
for  it  will  benefit  us ;  and  we  will  support  a 
corresponding  expenditure  in  the  other  sec- 
tion, because  we  have  not  so  much  to  pay  of 
it  as  the  people  of  that  section — we  will  have 
only  fifty  cents  to  pay  of  it,  while  they  will 
have  to  ]»ay  a  dollar.''  This  argument  will 
be  used  in  support  of  all  extravagant  and 
wasteful  expenditures,  and  you  may  depend 
upon  it  that  they  will  soon  be  incurred.  Then 
you  will  have  political  agitators  who  will  con- 
stantly keep  these  things  before  the  people, 
who  will  demand  a  dissolution  of  the  union  of 
tlic  provinces  as  a  remedy  for  the  evil.  Then 
a  further  dilhculty  will  be  found  in  tho  fact 
that   breadstuffs,    the  American    market   for 


which  will  probably  be  closed,  cannot  be 
transported  to  tho  Lower  from  the  Upper 
Provinces  without  being  pi'otected  by  a  heavy 
import  duty.  AVill  the  representatives  from 
the  Lower  Provinces  allow  that  import  duty 
to  be  imposed  ?  No,  undoubtedly  they  will  not. 
Attempt  to  carry  it  in  the  interest  of  Upper 
Canada  and  you  will  at  once  transform  the 
whole  of  them  into  advocates  for  the  repeal 
of  the  union.  Thus  you  create  cause 
for  agitation  in  all  the  sections,  and  it 
will  not  long  continue  imtil  you  will  again 
sec  another  dead-lock.  You  will  again  have 
three  administrations  formed  and  three  gen- 
eral elections  occurring  within  two  years,  and 
again  you  will  have  sufficient  excuse  for 
another  change  in  the  Constitution.  And  you 
may  rely  upon  it,  that  before  such  an  agita- 
tion goes  on  five  years  it  will  be  made  an  ex- 
cuse for  sliding  further  down  the  inclined 
plane  than  would  have  been  afforded  if  we  had 
remained  as  we  were.  (Hear,  hear.)  1  can- 
not help  -coming  to  the  conclusion,  honorable 
gentlemen,  that  these  resolutions  contain  the 
seeds  of  our  destruction  as  colonies.  There 
can  be  no  political  advantage  in  the  proposed 
union,  unless  we  assume  the  rights  and  respon- 
sibilities of  an  independent  country.  We  are 
not  yet  prepared  for  that  step.  Our  popula- 
tion is  not  numerous  enough  ;  wc  are  too  young 
and  too  weak  to  assume  those  rights  and  res- 
ponsibilities. Wc  have  no  commercial  advan- 
tages to  gain  by  tlic  union.  Why  then  force 
it  upon  us  ?  Let  it  rea;ain  for  more  mature 
consideration,  and  the  evils  you  have  will  be 
borne  the  more  quietly ;  but  if  you  force  it 
upon  the  people  prematurely,  and  tlie  evils  1 
fear  spring  froril  it,  depend  upon  it  that  the 
public  men  who  press  it  forward  will  be  as 
seriously  condemned  as  they  are  bow  higlily 
lauded.  The  fact  is,  the  people  of  the  country 
do  not  understand  this  scheme.  How  can  it  be 
expected  that  they  should  understand  it  in  all  its 
bearings  ?  Why,  the  honorable  member  from 
the  Kideau  Division  said  he  heard  the  expla- 
nations of  it  and  was  here  a  couple  of  weeks 
before  he  understood  it,  and  that  ho  had  sent 
2000  circulars  to  his  constituents  that  they 
miirht  have  a  knowlodire  of  it.  How  can  ho 
expect  them  to  understand  it  from  these  print- 
ed documents,  when  he  himself,  with  the  ad- 
vantage of  hearing  all  the  explanations  upon 
it,  was  two  weeks  in  gaining  an  understand- 
ing of  it?  Honorable  gentlemen,  I  am  in  the 
abstract  in  favor  of  the  union  of  these  colon- 
ics— (hear,  hear) — but  I  do  not  wish  to  force 
on  this  scheme  in  a  way  that  is  unfair  and  un- 


333 


just,  that  will  lead  to  future  difficulties  of 
eveu  a  graver  character  than  those  we  are  now 
laboring  under,  and  that  will  give  cause  for  the 
advocacy  of  such  a  change  in  our  position  as 
few  in  this  country  would  desire  to  see  brought 
about.     (Hear,  hear.) 

The  House  then  divided  upon  the  amend- 
ment, with  the  following  result : — 

Contexts. — Honorable  Messieurs  Aikiiis,  Ar- 
chambault,  Armstrong,  Bennett,  Bureau,  Chaf- 
fers, Currie,  A.  J.  Ducliesnay,  Flint,  Leonard, 
Leslie,  Malhiot,  Moore,  Olivier,  Proulx,  Reesor, 
Seymour,  Simpson,  Vidal. — 19. 

Nox-CoNTEXTS. — Honorable  Messieurs  Alex- 
ander, Allan,  Armand,  Sir  N.  F.Belleau,  Blake, 
Boulton,  Boss(5,  Bull,  Campbell,  Christie,  Craw- 
ford, DeBeaujeu,  Dickson,  E.  H.  J.  Duchesnay, 
Dumouchel,  Foster,  Gingras,  Guevremont,  Ham- 
ilton (Inkerman),  Hamilton  (Kingston),  Lacoste, 
McCrea,  McDonald,  McMaster,  Macpherson,  Ma- 
theson,  Mills,  Panet,  Price,  Eead,  Hoss,  Ryan, 
Shaw,  Skead,SirE.P.  Tache,  Wilson.— .36. 

So  the  amendment  was  negatived. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  said— I  am  anx- 
ious that  honorable  gentlemen  should  have  a 
full  opportunity  of  expressing  themselves  upon 
the  measure  which  is  now  before  the  House, 
and  as  1  am  the  mover  of  the  resolutions,  I 
think  it  is  but  just  and  fair  that  I  should  close 
the  debate.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  no  other  hon- 
orable gentleman  desires  to  speak  upon  them, 
T  think  that  before  the  vote  is  taken  I  should 
have  an  opportunity  of  answering  the  argu- 
ments that  haA^e  been  advanced  against  the 
scheme,  and  of  explaining  certain  expressions 
that  have  fallen  from  me.  I  believe  the 
House  will  be  disposed  to  give  me  that  fair 
play  which  has  always  been  given  under  cir- 
cumstances similar  to  these — (hear,  hear) — 
and  I  purpose,  therefore — no  other  honorable 
gentleman  desiring  to  address  the  House — to 
close  the  debate  this  evening. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  would  ask  if  it  is 
the  intention  of  the  Government  to  explain 
the  resolutions  more  fully  than  has  been  done  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  members 
of  the  Government  will  be  happy  to  afford  any 
information  the  honorable  member  may  desire. 

The  House  then  adjourned  till  eight  o'clock 
in  the  evening,  and  on  reassembling, 

Hon.  jMr.  RYAN  said — The  importance 
of  the  vote  we  are  about  to  give  on  these  reso- 
lutious  is  very  great,  as  the  future  of  the 
country  is  so  largely  dependent  upon  it,  and 
lepreseoting  as  1  do  the  division  ol  Victoria, 
which  is  one  of  ihe  most  important  in  the 
country,  containing  a  large  representation  of 
those  sections  or  divisions  of  races  which  make 
up  the  population  of  Canada,  I  think  it  due  to 


my  constituents  to  make  a  few  observations 
upon  the  subject  before  us.  (Hear.)  If 
the  constituency  T  represent  is,  perhaps,  not 
quite  the  most  numerous  in  the  country,  it 
possesses  a  large  share  of  the  wealth,  busi- 
ness and  manufacturing  energy  and  commer- 
cial enterprise  of  the  province.  It  also 
contains,  in  not  very  unequal  proportions, 
people  of  the  different  nationalities,  religions 
and  languages  Avl-.ich  most  largely  prevail 
amongst  us.  You  have  the  French  element, 
with  the  Roman  Catholic  religion  and 
l'"rcnch  language  ;  you  have  the  English, 
Scotch  and  Irish  Protestant  clement,  and 
you  have  the  Irish  Roman  Catholic  element, 
which  I  may  be  said  more  especially  to  repre- 
sent, and  which  is  by  no  means  an  unimportant 
one.  Go  through  Canada,  and  you  will  find 
that  these,  with  a  few  European  foreigners, 
such  as  Germans  and  Norwegians,  make  up 
nearly  the  whole  population.  My  division 
is,  in  fact,  an  epitome  of  Canada.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  may  not  be  too  much  to  say  that 
the  opinion  and  feeling  of  Montreal  will  be 
a  fair  representation  of  what  the  opinion  of 
the  country  generally  is,  and  that  if  Montreal 
has  come  to  a  nearly  unauimoud  conclusion, 
it  is  very  likely  the  different  sections  of  the 
country  will  have  arrived  at  a  very  similar 
one  on  the  subject  of  Confederation,  I  am 
happy  to  be  able  to  state  with  confidence, 
that  I  have  taken  pains  to  ascertain  the 
opinions  of  each  of  the  different  sections  of 
my  constituency  to  which  I  have  alluded, 
and  that  I  believe  they  are  in  consonance 
with  the  votes  I  have  given  in  this  chamber. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  have  alluded  to  the  energy 
of  my  constituents,  to  their  great  commercial 
enterprise.  I  believe  that  energy  is  one  of 
their  leading  characteristics,  and  I  may  say 
this,  that  if  that  energy  has  led  them,  on 
rare  occasions,  a  little  further  than  their  own 
interest  and  that  of  the  country  required, 
they,  nevertheless,  on  such  occasions  acted 
on  an  honest  and  generous  impulse,  or  were 
prompted  by  the  feeling  that  some  injustice 
had  been  done  to  them.  I  was  greatly 
gratified  with  the  remarks  of  the  honorable 
and  gallant  Premier  at  the  commencement 
of  this  debate,  when  alluding  to  events 
which  long  since  took  place  in  Montreal;  he 
put  the  blame  where  it  really  should  rest — 
on  the  Legislature  of  the  day,  which  was 
pressing  on  the  people  a  measure  distasteful 
to  them,  and  which  was  vainly  remonstrated 
against  by  numerous  portions  of  the  country. 
The  same  impulsive    character   which  Ifed 


334- 


them  at  tint  time  into  a  course  wliicii  is 
certainly  much  to  be  regretted,  afterwards 
led  them  to  countenance  a  movement  of 
which  I  disapproved  at  the  time,  and  which 
I  opposed  with  all  my  might — the  move- 
ment towards  annexation.  They  favored 
that  movement,  because  they  thought  they 
had  been  aggrieved  aud  maltreated.  But  I 
iiiay  tell  you  now,  that  this  feeling  has  com- 
pletely vjinished,  and  that  their  wish  now  is 
to  place  Canada  on  a  footing  in  which,  united 
with  the  Lower  Provinces  and  in  close  con- 
nection wit'i  Great  Britain,  she  may  be 
thoroughly  independent  of  her  neighbors, 
and  free  from  any  need  cf  looking  again 
towards  Washington.  (Hear,  hear.)  In 
considering  the  project  of  Confederation,  one 
of  the  principal  subjects  which  has  under- 
gone discussion  in  this  House  has  been  the 
proposed  Constitution  of  the  Council,  and 
the  most  prominent  question  connected  with 
it  has  been  the  question  of  the  elective  versus 
the  nominative  principle.  Although  an 
elected  mem'cer,  I  voted  without  the  least 
hesitation  against  the  elective  principle,  and 
I  believe  that  in  doing  so  I  represented  the 
views  of  my  constituents  as  well  asmy  own — I 
mean  the  great  majority  of  my  constituents, 
for  there  may  be  some  exceptions  with  re- 
gard to  this  point,  as  there  are  no  doubt 
with  respect  to  the  general  question  of  Con- 
federation. I  based  my  vote  on  what  is,  I 
think,  a  true  principle  in  politics,  which  is 
that  if  you  wish  a  check  to  be  established, 
such  ap  I  think  this  Council  is  intended  to 
(Btablish  on  the  legislation  of  the  other 
branch,  you  must  not  have  the  two  Chambers 
returnable  by  the  same  con^-tituents.  If  the 
constituents  of  both  Houses  are  nearly  the 
same,  you  lose  the  power  of  check,  or  at 
least  you  will  not  have  it  effectual,  because 
you  will  have  the  same  sentiments  and  feel- 
ings represented  in  this  House  as  in  the 
other.  I  oxn  not  singular  in  this  opinion, 
but  were  I  to  cite  the  opinions  of  men  who 
arc  of  a  conservative  turn  of  mind,  and  who 
have  always  upheld  the  privileges  of  the 
aristocracj-  and  the  prerogative  of  the  Crown, 
I  should,  perhaps,  give  you  opinions  which 
would  carry  less  weight  with  the  opponents 
of  this  measure  than  will  that  of  a  gentleman 
whose  views  I  will  cite,  who  has  written  a 
great  deal,  aud  very  ably,  and  who  bcloug.5 
to  the  ranks  of  the  advanced  Lib;ral  party 
in  England — I  mean  Mr.  John  Stuart 
Mill.  In  hi.s  chapter  on  the  Second 
Chamber  {Considtratious  on  Representative 
Government,  page  212),  he  says  : — 


That  there  should  be  in  every  polity  a  centre 
of  resistance  to  the  predominant  power  in  the 
Constitution — aud  in  a  democratic  constitution, 
therefore,  a  nucleus  of  resistance  to  the  demo- 
cracy— I  have  already  maintained,  and  I  regard  it 
as  a  fundamental  maxim  of  government.  If  any 
people  who  possess  a  democratic  representatiou 
are,  from  their  historical  antecedents,  more  willing 
to  to'.prate  such  a  centre  of  resistance  in  the  form 
of  a  Second  Chamber  or  House  of  Lords  than  in 
any  other  shape,  this  constitutes  a  strong  re.nson 
for  having  it  m  that  shape. 

Now,  honorable  gentlemen,  I  think  a  Second 
Chamber,  constituted  nearly  in  the  same 
way  as  the  Lower  Chamber,  would  be  wholly 
ineffectual  to  stop  the  current  of  legislation 
coming  from  that  Chamber;  the  point,  in- 
deed, admits  of  very  little  question.  (Hear, 
hear)  The  objections  which  have  been  raised 
to  nomination  by  the  Crown  or  the  Execu- 
tive Government  are  of  very  little  effect  at 
this  time  of  day.  For  myself  I  should  have 
preferred  to  have  the  nomination  of  legis- 
lative councillors  vested  in  the  Crown  inde- 
pendently cf  the  recommendation  of  the 
Local  Government,  so  as  to  have  left  ihe  pre- 
rogative unfetterel.  Thoie  is  no  doubt  that 
abuses  formerly  existed  in  (\-xnada  when  the 
nominative  system  was  in  force — before  res- 
ponsible government  was  established  and 
when  the  Colonial  Office  meddled  a  good  deal 
with  the  affairs  of  the  province ;  but  now 
every  honorable  gentleman  with  any  kaow- 
ledge  of  historical  events  in  Canada  will  pay 
at  once  the  case  is  altogether  altered.  So 
far  from  interfering  in  our  internal  matters, 
the  Colonial  Office  now  leaves  us  a  great  deal 
to  ourselves  and  lets  us  do  as  we  please. 
There  never  was  a  freer  Constitution  than 
ours.  Under  these  altered  circumstances,  I 
(should  have  preferred,  I  ?ay,  that  in  order 
to  avoid  all  appearance  of  nominations  for 
party  purposes,  the  direct  nomination  of  le- 
gislative councillors  should  have  been  left  to 
the  Crown  or  the  Crown's  representative  in 
the  Confederation.  (llear.^  There  was 
one  remark  made  by  the  hou.  member  for 
Wellington  io  reference  to  Mr.  C.VRD well's 
letter,  which  I  think  was  made  in  error.  He 
inferred  from  that  di!.<patch  that  Mr.  C.\rl)- 
WELL  was  opposed  to  the  nominative  sys- 
tem.  Now,  the  passage  he  alluded  to  was 
this :  — • 

The  second  point  which  Her  Majesty's  (rovcrn 
mont  desired  should  be  reconsidered  is  the  Coiisti- 
lulioiiof  the  Legislative  Council.  Thiyaiipreciaio 
thi'  cousideraiions  which  iuive  inl-luenced  the  Co:.- 
leience  in  determining  the  mode  iu  which  llr'a 
'  body,  80  important  to  the  constitution  of  the  Le- 


S35 


orislature,  should  be  composed.  But  it  appears  to 
them  to  require  further  consideration  whether,  if 
the  members  be  appointed  for  life,  and  their 
number  be  fixed,  there  will  be  any  sufficient 
means  of  restoring  hairaony  between  the  Legisla- 
tive Council  and  the  popular  Assembly,  if  it  shall 
ever  unfortunately  happen  that  a  decided  differ 
ence  of  opinion  shall  arise  between  them. 

Now  the  point  of  this  (Mr.  Card  well's) 
objection  clearly  is  to  the  number  being  fixed, 
not  to  the  principle  of  nomination,  nor  to 
members  being  appointed  for  life.  (Hear, 
hear.")  Like  many  honorable  gentlemen  in 
this  House,  there  are  certain  of  the  clauses 
in  these  resolutions  which,  I  think,  might 
have  been  improved.  I,  for  instance,  might 
have  preferred  the  Confederate  seat  of  gov- 
ernment being  established  elsewhere  than  at 
Ottawa;  and,  with  reference  to  this  subject, 
I  have  been  much  struck  with  a  remark, 
which  I  will  cite,  from  a  recent  writer,  who 
says  that — "Any  country  compelled  to  fore- 
go the  use  of  its  natural  chief  city,  and  make 
some  inferior  and  ill-placed  town  the  seat  of 
its  government,  labors  under  incalculable 
disadvantages."  Everybody,  however,  has 
his  own  little  bantling,  and  thinks  it 
the  handsomest  in  the  world ;  and  I 
doubt  very  much  if,  after  all,  we  should 
have  made  the  plan  of  Confederation  much 
better,  had  every  one  of  us  been  consult- 
ed and  taken  into  the  Conference,  at  Charlotte- 
town  or  Quebc  c,  to  urge  our  own  special  views. 
(Hear,  hear.)  T  rather  infer,  from  the  dif- 
ferences of  opinion  I  have  heard  around  me 
in  these  debates,  that  the  compromise  system 
would  not  have  been  so  easily  adopted  by  us 
as  by  the  gentlemen  who  composed  those 
conferences.  I  hope,  however,  that  we  shall 
adopt  that  system  now,  and  get  through  the 
debate  in  the  faith  that  they  have  done  what 
is  best  for  the  interests  of  the  country,  and 
that  the  measure  is  so  impor.ant,  as  a  whole, 
as  to  render  it  unwise  to  place  minor  impedi- 
ments in  its  way  to  interrupt  its  course. 
(Hear,  hear.)  1  have  marked  several  sec- 
tions of  the  resolutions  which  I  think  are 
open  to  objection  or  susceptible  of  improve- 
ment, and  I  hope  the  honorable  and  gallant 
Knight  at  the  head  of  the  Government  will 
give  some  explanations  respecting  the  views 
which  animated  the  Conference  in  reference 
to  them.  One  of  them  is  a  matter  in  which 
Lower  Canada  is  somewhat  peculiarly  inter- 
ested— the  system  of  marriage  and  divorce, 
which,  I  see,  is  to  be  left  in  the  hands  of  the 
Federal  Government.  I  hope  nothing  will 
be  done  bv  the  General  Government,  in  rela- 


tion to  this  question,  which  will  outrage  the 
fcelin^-s  of  Lower  Canada,  or  lead  to  the 
laxity,  in  denling  with  the  marriage  tie, 
which  prevails  south  of  the  line  45°.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Again,  emigration  is  a  subject  which 
is  left  to  the  Local  as  well  as  the  General 
Government  to  deal  with.  I  think  it  should 
be  under  the  care  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment entirely.  Then,  as  to  the  question  of 
education,  I  hope  the  Government  will  secure 
to  Koman  Catholics  in  Upper  Canada  the 
same  rights  which  will  be  extended  to  Pro- 
testants in  Lower  Canada.  To  have  the  same 
privileges  is  only  equal  justice,  which  I  trust 
and  believe  will  bo  granted.  Having  been 
iu  communication  with  several  of  the  Roman 
Catholic  clergy,  I  can  say  that  they  desire  to 
have  every  justice  done  to  their  Protestant 
fellow-subjects,  but  expect  to  have  the  same 
privileges  granted  to  lloman  Catholics  iu 
Upper  Canada  (who  are  the  minority  there,) 
as  will  be  given  to  the  Protestant  minority 
in  Lower  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  must 
also  refer  to  the  clause  which  gives  to  local 
governments  the  right  of  dividing  the  sec- 
tions of  the  Confederation  into  constituencies 
and  electoral  divisions.  This  power  may 
become  very  dangerous  and  lead  to  great 
practical  injustice,  and  should,  I  think,  be 
placed  in  the  hands  ot  the  General  Govern- 
ment. I  come  now  to  the  question  of  rail- 
way extension,  and  this  is  a  matter  which 
seems  to  have  been  a  serious  stumbling-block 
to  a  great  number  of  those  who  are  really 
favorable  to  the  measure  of  Confederation. 
Now,  I  do  not  think  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
will  be  a  profitable  concern,  ail  at  oncej  but 
I  think  I  can  remove  a  few  of  the  objections 
which  have  been  raised  to  this  part  of  tbe 
scheme.  In  the  first  place,  I  think  a  mistake 
prevails  i:s  to  what  will  bo  the  cost  of  carrying 
freight  on  this  railway.  I  have  here  the  annual 
Trade  and  JSavigafion  Returns  of  New 
Brunsioick  for  1863,  in  which  T  find  the 
following  statement : — 

If  New  Brunswick  was  connected  with  Mon- 
treal and  Quebec  by  direct  railway  commuuicatioa 
through  British  territory,  our  importations  from 
the  Slates  would  decrease  immediately,  and  much 
of  our  flour  and  other  supplies  would  come  diiect 
from  Canada  ;  and  in  the  event  of  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty  and  the  bonding  system  of  the  Uii  ted 
States,  which  allows  British  goods  to  pass  through 
their  terrhory  free  of  duty  under  bond  to  Canada, 
being  abolished,  Saint  John  would  probably 
become  the  Atlantic  shipping  port  of  Canada  for 
the  winter  months. 

People   may   suppose    the  rates   of   freight 


386 


would  be  so  very  extravagant  that  this  could 
not  coffie  to  pass ;  but  in  the  same  report, 
which  has  very  opportunely  come  to  hand,  as 
it  corroborates  the  remarks  I  made  during  tbo 
debate  on  the  Address  as  to  the  foct  that 
we  should  have  some  oflPset  in  the  trade  of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  under  Confederation, 
for  what  we  should  lose  if  the  Reciprocity 
Treaty  were  to  be  annulled,  I  find  the 
following  statement : — 

The  cost  of  transportation  of  flour  from  Monf 
real  to  Portland,  Maine,  by  rail,  has  been  reduced 
to  the  low  figure  of  S5  cents  per  barrel,  and  from 
Portland,  Maine,  to  this  port,  it  can  be  conveyed 
for  25  cents  by  steamer,  or  15  cents  by  sailing 
vessel,  making  altogether  60  cents  for  conveying 
a  barrel  of  flonr,  weighing  200  lbs.,  by  rail  and 
steam,  a  distance  of  585  miles,  and  it  could  be 
delivered  at  this  port  (St.  John,  N.  B.)  within 
five  or  six  days  from  the  time  of  loading  at  Mont- 
real. Of  course  these  low  rates  of  railway 
freight  apply  to  large  quantities  only. 

AVell  now,  gentlemen,  the  distance  from 
Montreal  to  St.  John,  by  railway,  is  at  a 
rough  estimate  about  GOO  miles. 

Hon.  Mr.  CUKRIE— Not  so  much— 
about  500  only. 

Hon.  Mr.  RYAN— So  much  the  better 
for  my  argument,  but  I  will  give  my  hon. 
friend  the  benefit  of  the  600  miles.  Now, 
the  further  a  barrel  of  flour  is  carried  the 
h  ss  the  freight  per  mile  is,  because  you  get 
rid  of  the  cost  of  handling  it  at  successive 
stages.  If  you  can  carry  it  from  Montreal 
to  Portland,  say  300  miles,  for  35  cents, 
you  can  certainly  carry  it  600  miles  for  loss 
than  twice  that  sum,  or  lot  us  say  for  60 
cents,  not  more  than  what  it  now  costs  by 
the  combined  rail  and  steamboat  route  via 
Portland,  while  the  flour  conveyed  all  the 
way  by  rail  will  be  the  better  lor  not  being 
njovcd  about  from  one  means  of  conveyance 
to  another.  1  have  indeed  reason  to  believe, 
iVom  a  very  good  railway  authority,  that  it 
would  pay  a  railway  company  well  to 
carry  flour  from  Montreal  to  St.  John 
ibr  from  69  to  70  cents  per  barrel,  and 
that  if  it  were  necessary,  the  work  could 
be  done  at  a  profit  at  50  cents  per  bairel. 
(Hcjir,  hear.)  I  want  to  shew  by  this,  that 
the  currying  of  flour  over  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  will  not  be  so  difficult  of  accom- 
pli^<hnll'nt  as  people  who  have  not  gone  into 
tJM'  calculation  closely  may  bo  disposed  to 
iiniigine.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  here,  too, 
a  statement  of  the  imports  of  flour  into  New 
IJrunswick,  Nova  Scotia  and  Ncwfoundlanii. 
It  is  as  follows  : — 


Imports  of  Flour.  Barrels i 

New  Brunswick 243,000 

Nova  Scotia .328,000 

Newfoundland 220,000 

797,000 

If  we  now  look  at  our  imports  and  exports 
for  1863,  we  shall  find  that  we  imported 
into  Canada  4,210,9-42  bushels  of  wheat, 
while  we  exported  only  8,030,407  bushels. 
Wei',  this  may  appear  strange,  considering 
that  we  arc  an  agricultural  and  exporting 
country;  but  we  come  next  to  the  article  of' 
flour,  and  find  that  while  we  imported  only 
229,793  barrels,  we  exported  1,095,691 
barrels. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— We  imported  wheat 
to  grind  it  into  flour. 

Hon.  Mr.  RYAN— Exactly  so.  The 
excess  of  flour  exported  was  865,898  barrels, 
which,  taken  at  4 J  bushels  to  the  barrel, 
would  be  equal  to  3,896,541  bushels  of 
wheat.  Deducting  from  this  the  excess  of 
our  imports  over  our  exports  of  wheat,  viz., 
1,180,535  bushels,  will  leave  us  2,716,006 
for  export,  which  at  the  same  calculation, 
viz.,  4*  bushels  to  the  barrel,  gives  us 
603,557  barrels  of  surplus  flour,  ground  from 
wheat  in  Canada,  with  wliich  to  siippl}-  the- 
demand  of  the  three  Maritime  Provinces 
mentioned  of  797,000  barrels.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Thus,  if  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  he  repealed, 
we  can  just  about  supjdy  what  they  annually 
require. ^^  (Hear,  hear.)  Their  importations 
are  moreover  very  constant,  for  the  return 
says  : — 

Our  importations  of  wheat  flour  in  18C;l  amount- 
ed to  2-jH,.S91  barrels,  against  2.S2,2;J7  barrels  in 
18G2;  210,G7G  barrels  in  ISGl,  li)8,:r2:n.iirrels 
in  1860  ;  205,35G;l)arre]s  in  ISJ^O  ,  226,619  l>ar- 
rels  in  1858^;  and  153,515  barrels  in  1857. 

'l^iat  is  as  f:ir  as  wheat  or  wheatcn  flour  is 
concerned  They  consume  also  a  large 
quantity  oi'  pork,  a  large  quantity  of  beef 
and  other  produce  ;  but  1  do  not  wisli 
to  trespass  longer  upon  the  time^of^thc 
House. 

VOICES—"  Go  on." 

Hon.  Mil.  RYAN — I  will  just  read  from 
the  New  Rrunswick  return.     It  says  : — 

Our  importation.s  into  tlir>  Province  in  lS(;:i,  of 
all  kinds  of  agricultural  pro  Uice,  amounltd  in 
value  to  $2,()6(),702,  the  description  of  wliich  w«;i 
as  follows : — Flonr  andimeal  of  all  kind.s,  iiread, 
beans,  peas  and  pot  barley,  $1,333,786  ;  grain  of 
all  kinds,  bran,  horse  and  pig  feed,  $118,413; 
vegetables,   including  potatoes,  $76,769;  meats 


337 


viz.,  salted,  cured  and  fresh,  including  poultry, 
$242.9H>! ;  buiter,  cheese,  lard  and  eggs,  $75,285; 
animals,  including  horses,  oxen,  cows,  sheep  and 
pij-s,  $58  7.5;  apples,  pears,  plums,  cranberries, 
&c..  $60,257;  tallow  and  soap  grease,  $29,973, 
hops,  $5,22  ;  ;  hay,  $S,142  ;  malt,  $4,719;  shrubs, 
trees,  &c.,  $2,188  ;  seeds,  $10,815  ;  wool,  $8,5H1  ; 
am-iuiiting  altogether  in  currency  to  £515,175. 
'I  he  value  of  the  agricultural  produce  imported  in 
18o2  was  £476,581  currency;  in  1861  it  was 
£427,083  currency  ;  and  in  1860  it  was  £447,341 
currency. 

The  Nova  Scotia  and  Newfoundland  returns 
also  show  that  large  quantities  of  agricultural 
proilucs  of  all  kinds  are  imported  into  thesa 
colonies,  as  well  as  immense  quantities  of 
pork  and  other  meats  which  we  could  easily 
and  profit:^bly  supply.  Now  all  these  articles 
Canada  will  be  able  to  supply,  and  this  is 
another  item  in  the  return  which  is  very 
noticeable.  The  Lower  Provinces  import 
largequantitiesof  boots  and  shoes.  The  New- 
Bruuswick  return  states  that — 

The  value  of  boots  and  shoes  imported  in  1863 
was  $59.851 — duty,  $7,521  ;  against  $'>7,957— 
duty,  $9,105,  in  1862  ;  $101,967— duty,  $16,385, 
in  1861  ;   and  $131,424— duty,  $20,832,  in  1860. 

These  under  Confederation  would  go  duty 
free  from  Canada.  There  is  a  large  manu- 
facture  of  such  articles,  and  with  them,  as 
with  sotue  other  articles  we  naake,  we  might 
supply  the  Lower  Province  markets.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  there  is  one  feature  in  our  con- 
nection with  the  Lower  Provinces  which  we 
must  not  lorie  sight  of,  it  is  their  possessing 
coal  in  large  quantities  ;  this  is  sure  eventu- 
ally to  create  manufacturing  communities 
amongst  them,  to  increase  their  population, 
and  cause  a  larger  home  demand  than  at 
present,  for  the  agricultural  productions  of 
AVestern  Can  ida.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  may 
now  recur  to  the  Intercolonial  Railway  ques- 
tion, and  express  a  hope  that  it  will  be  gone 
about  by  the  Gr  jvernment  in  the  most  econo- 
mical manner  possible.  This  much  may  be 
said,  that  whatever  money  is  spent  on  it  will 
be  spent  in  the  country,  that  is,  in  our  new 
country,  will  be  spent  among  ourselves,  and 
will  attract  a  great  army  of  laborers  ;  and 
I  do  hope  and  trust  the  Administration 
will  so  arrange  the  prosecution  of  the 
work,  that  these  laborers  shall  be  induced 
to  settle  on  the  lands  traversed  by  the 
line,  which,  I  am  told,  are  very  favorable 
to  settlement,  so  that  another  market  for  our 
manut'aeturesand  productions  may  be  formed; 
and  that  if  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  should  be 
lost  to  us  (an  event  which  I  deprecate  as 
44 


much  as  anyone),  we  may  have  something  to 
fallback  upon — which  weshiiH  liave,hon.  gen- 
tlemen, if  we  look  at  our  position  boldly  and 
energetically,  and  take  advantage  of  circum- 
stances as  they  arise  (Hear,  hear.)  With 
respect  to  the  statemeat  that  the  road  will 
not  be  valuable  for  purposes  of  defence,  not 
being  a  military  man,  that  is,  nothing  more 
than  a  militia  officer,  1  do  not  pretend  to 
offer  a  very  valuable  opinion  :  but  it  appears 
to  me  that,  removed  a  certain  distance  from 
the  frontier  as  it  will  be,  ar»  attack  on  the 
railvay  must  be  next  to  impossible  in  the 
winter  time;  besides,  it  will  be  our  duty  to 
guard  our  frontier  in  such  a  way  that  incur- 
sions cannot  be  made  upon  us  with  effect, 
and  I  hope  we  shall  be  able  to  do  so. 
(  Hear,  hear.)  It  has  been  remarked  that  the 
English  Government  would  not  think  of  send- 
ing a  military  force  from  Halifax  to  Canada 
by  railway,  tut  I  confess  I  differ  from  this 
view.  In  the  war  which  is  now  going  on  in 
the  United  States,  if  it  has  been  proved  that 
railways  can  be  easily  broken  up,  it  has  also 
been  proved  that  they  can  easily  be  relaid, 
and  the  value  set  upon  them  by  military  men 
is  clearly  exemplified  by  the  struggles  they 
make  to  gain  or  to  retain  possession  of  them. 
If  a  railway  is  partially  broken  up,  they  have 
appliances  at  hand  quickly  to  repair  it.  It 
is  a  part  of  modern  warfare  to  lay  railways 
and  lines  of  telegraph,  and  armies  have  corps 
attached  to  them  whose  special  duty  this  is. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  is  another  thing, 
important  in  a  military  point  of  view,  which 
has  been  lost  sight  of — which  is,  that  although 
soldiers  might  walk  over  the  snow,  military 
munitions  and  the  heavy  articles  used  in  war, 
such  as  cannon  and  mortars,  cannot  be  put  on 
snow-shoes.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  I 
think  the  railway  would  be  of  incalculable 
value  for  transporting  such  things  as  these 
if  there  were  occasion  for  it,  which  I  hope 
there  never  will  be.  It  is,  however,  meet  to 
be  prepared  for  such  an  eventuality  as  war, 
for  that  is  the  best  way  to  avoid  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  may  her3  refer  to  what  some 
honorable  gentlemen  have  remarked  in  this 
debate,  that  the  circumstance  of  certain 
portions  of  the  population  of  the  Lower 
Provinces  being  occupied  in  maritime  pur- 
suits, diminishes  to  that  extent  their  power 
of  aiding  Canada  in  case  of  war.  In  this 
opinion  I  am  unable  to  concur ;  for  if  there 
be  one  arm  more  than  another  in  which 
they  can  assist  us,  it  is  by  the  aid  of  their 
hardy  seafaring  population,  who  will  swarm 
the  seaports  of   the   Confederacy  and   the 


3S8 


Empire,  and  act  with  great  effect  upon  the 
commerce  and  sea-board  towns  of  any  foreign 
foe.     It  has  been  said,  honorable  gentlemen, 
that   this  measure  is  being  liurried  through 
the   House,  and  complaint   has   been   made 
that  it  has  not  been  referred  to  the  country 
for  arbitrament.     But,  look  at   the   conse- 
quences ot   so  referring   it  to  the   country. 
Look   at  the   consequences   of  delay.     You 
have   read  the  telegram  to-day  which  gives 
the   news  of  the  assembling  ot   the  British 
Parliament,  and  I  am  glad  to  see  a  statement 
in    Her    Majesty's    Speech,    that    She   has 
approved  of  the  measure  which  is  now  under 
our    consideration.       Well,    gentlemen,    the 
Parliament  of  Great  Britain  will  not  sit  for 
an  unlimited  time.     Its  session,  this  year, 
may  be   shorter  than   usual,  for  the   natural 
dissolution  of  this  and   the  assembling  of  a 
new  Parliament   are  drawing   near,  and  con- 
tending  parties    generally    make    an    effort, 
towards  the  close  of  a  Parliament,  to  make  a 
change  in  the  Administration.    Any  one  who 
reads  the  English  papers  and  political  docu- 
ments will  see  that  a  change  of  Ministry  is 
confidently  expected  by  some  people  ;  and  if 
a  defeat  of  the  present  Ministry  takes  place, 
and  Parliament  is  dissolved,  thoir  own  affairs 
will  occupy  the  minds  of  Briiish  stat'^smen, 
so  that  when  again  called  together,  for  a  short 
time  in   summer,  it   may  be  merely  to  legis- 
late on  local  matters,  and   our  Confederation 
project  may  thus  be  indefinitely  delayed. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— So  much  the 
better. 

Hon.  Mr.  RYAN — I  think  any  man  with 
his  eyes  open  will  see  that  events  are  march- 
ing on  upon  this  continent  with  great  strides. 
Event  follows  event  in  such  rapid  succession 
that  we  can  hardly  tell  whither  the  tide  will 
flow  next.  Already  we  hear  the  great  anti- 
cipated successes  of  the  North.  If  the  new-^ 
be  true  that  Charleston  has  been  evacuated, 
it  will  be  a  severe  blow  to  the  cause  of  the 
South ;  and  if  the  South  be  conquered,  we 
know  what  have  been  the  sentiments  towards 
Canada  expressed  in  the  United  States  for 
the  last  three  years.  They  will,  perhaps, 
turn  north  for  further  conquests,  and  try  to 
humble  a  power  which  has  not  in  every  way 
met  their  wishes.  We  should,  at  all  events, 
be  prepared  to  meet  such  a  contingency, 
prepared  to  repel  attack,  prepared  to  defend 
our  homes  and  the  free  Constitution  under 
which  we  live.  I  will  conclude  by  saying 
that  if  the  citizens  of  Montreal  have  been 
accused  in  former  times  of  energy  in  u  wrong- 


direction,  they  are  prepared  now,  and  I  speak 
it  advisedly,  to  use  that  energy  for  the  de- 
fence of  the  province.  For  the  people  of  the 
nationality  to  which  I  belong,  I  will  further 
say  they  have  come  to  this  country  to  find  a 
home  and  they  have  found  one,  where  they  are 
not  oppressed  by  any  wrongs,  where  there  is 
no  invidious  distinction  between  races  and 
creeds.  They  appreciate  the  blessing  and 
value  of  the  institutions  under  which  they 
live,  they  are  ready  to  defend  them,  and 
they  look  on  the  union  ot  the  British 
North  American  Provinces  as  the  surest 
means  of  preservin.'-  and  perpetuating  them. 
(Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  PRICE — Honorable  gentlemen, 
being  one  of  the  newly  elected  members  of 
this  House,  I  would  like  to  say  a  few  words, 
by  way  of  defining  my  position,  before  the 
vote  is  taken.  Although  I  have  said  that  I 
was  in  favor  of  Confederation  as  the  only 
means  by  which  we  could  make  proper  pro- 
vision for  our  defence,  yet,  until  I  understood 
the  details  more  clearly  than  what  I  could 
learn  from  the  resolutions,  I  could  not  make 
up  my  mind  to  vote  for  it.  Previous  to  the 
declaration  at  the  election  in  my  division,  the 
press  had  circulated  the  views  of  the  Confer- 
ence, and  I  went  over  the  details  so  far  as  I 
was  in  possession  of  them,  and  the  verdict  of 
the  people  at  the  hustings  was  unanimously 
in  favor  of  the  scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
would  like  to  enter  into  a  discussion  of  the 
details,  clause  by  clause,  but  it  is  impossible 
to  do  so  at  the  present  time.  It  is  not  sur- 
prising that  almost  every  member  of  the 
House  is  opposed  to  one  or  more  of  the  reso- 
lutions ;  it  is  impossible  for  us,  even  when  we 
go  into  committee  on  almost  any  subject,  to 
unanimously  agree  on  all  the  clauses.  Before 
going  further  I  wish  to  thank  my  honorable 
friend  the  gallant  Knight  at  the  head  of  the 
Government,  for  his  kind  remarks  with  refer- 
ence to  my  father  and  myself,  at  the  opening 
of  this  debate.  For  the  last  twenty  years  I 
have  been  known  and  resided  in  the  consti- 
tuency which  sent  me  here,  and  if  I  have  been 
elected  without  much  opposition,  it  was  from 
friendship  towards  me  on  the  part  of  my  con- 
stituents. Although  I  represent  people  hav- 
ing different  religious  views,  yet  I  believe 
only  twenty-six  Protestant  votes  were  given 
ior  me.  I  have  had  a  great  deal  of  personal 
friendship  and  intercourse  with  the  Roman 
Catholic  clergy  of  Lower  Canada,  and  must 
say  I  have  always  found  them  liberal  and 
loyal  in  their  views,  and,  aa  a  body,  almost 


339 


unanimous  in  supporting  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation, being  convinced  that  it  is  the  only 
sortie  from  our  present  political  troubles,  and 
of  our  continuing  under  the  British  Crown, 
knowing  well  the  liberty  that  all  subjects  en- 
joy under  it;  and  I  feel  certain  t  lat  if  ever 
the  day  comes  to  defend  the  British  flag 
on  this  soil,  while  a  shred  is  left  on  the 
stafl"  they  will  be  there  to  defend  it.  Being 
an  elected  member  of  this  House,  who  by 
this  scheme  may  be  offered  a  seat  for  life,  I 
beg  to  say  that  I  care  little  for  the  chance ; 
but  I  have  been  congratulated  by  my  consti- 
tuents, on  all  sides,  upon  the  prospect  before 
me,  and  if  I  vote  for  the  measure  as  it  stands 
I  shall  not,  therefore,  in  any  way  displease 
them.  Although  I  voted  for  rendering  this 
House  elective,  in  1856,  yet  I  did  so,  contrary 
to  my  own  convictions,  for  the  sole  purpose 
of  sustaining  the  Government,  believing  that 
this  House  should  be  a  conservative  body.  I 
consider  that  this  should  be  a  special  branch, 
where  we  should  judge  measures  without  re- 
ference to  popular  prejudices,  if  such  a 
thing  were  possible.  I  think  we  are  here  to 
judge  without  that  political  partiality  which 
actuates  most  of  the  members  of  the  Lower 
House,  some  of  whom  got  their  seats  by  a 
majority  of  one.  I  am  sure  persons  elected 
in  that  manner  can  hardly  claim  to  represent 
the  popular  feeling  of  the  country.  For  my 
part,  I  intend  to  vote  for  these  resolutions, 
for  it  becomes  a  matter  of  choice  with  us 
either  to  support  them  and  thus  become  one 
strong  Confederacy,  or  else  go  by  driblets  into 
the  American  Union.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am 
fully  convinced  that  we  are  tending  rapidly 
towards  annexation,  and  that  the  only  thing 
that  can  save  us  is  the  formation  of  a  strong 
Confederacy.  And  if  that  is  not  done  imme- 
diately, I  firmly  believe  that  we  shall  let  the 
golden  opportunity  slip,  and  will  not  again 
have  the  opportunity.  Honorable  gentlemen 
say  that  our  debt  will  be  rapidly  increased 
under  Confederation.  Well,  that  is  hard  to 
say,  but  I  think  it  quite  likely  it  may  in- 
crease slightly.  But  what  would  be  our  debt 
if  we  were  annexed  to  the  United  States  ? 
What  would  our  taxes  be  if  we  had  a  propor- 
tion of  the  enormous  war  debt  of  that  country 
to  pay,  in  addition  to  our  own  ?  For  my 
part,  believing  as  I  do  that  this  is  the  only 
hope  of  the  eountr}-,  and  the  present  the  only 
opportunity  we  shall  have  of  carrying  it 
through — and  so  far  as  I  know  it  is  the  only 
one — I  should  feel  myself  unworthy  the  posi- 
tion I  hold  if  I  did  not  vote  in  favor  of  it. 
It  is   the  only  practicable   scheme  that  has 


ever  come  before  the  country  for  settling  the 
difficulties  that  have  afflicted  the  country. 
For  the  past  ten  years,  during  which  I  have 
had  the  honor  of  being  a  representative  of  the 
people,  there  has  always  been  a  running  fight 
between  the  ins  and  outs — first  one  side  and 
then  the  other,  contending  for  office,  and  the 
result  has  been  anything  but  satisfactory  to 
the  country.  I  think  if  honorable  members 
would  take  nn  impartial  view  of  this  question, 
and  consider  that  wc  cannot  alter  the  details, 
if  we  desired  to  do  so,  without  defeating  the 
whole,  they  would  not  hesitate  to  vote  for  it. 
As  I  understand  it,  ^he  details  in  reference  to 
the  formation  of  our  own  local  governments 
will  be  brought  before  us,  and  we  shall 
then  have  ample  opportunity  of  considering 
and  amending  them  if  we  think  it  necessary. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hox.  Mr.  REESOR— I  do  not  wish  to 
make  any  lengthened  remarks ;  but  there  are 
one  or  two  points  to  which  I  wish  to  call  the 
attention  of  the  House  before  the  vote  is 
taken.  (Cries of  "Question,"  "question!";  If 
i  am  out  of  order,  I  will  take  my  seat. 

The  Hox.  the  SPEAKER— The  hon- 
orable gentleman  is  perfectly  in  order. 

Hon.  :Mr.  REESOR— I  wish  to  call  the 
attention  of  the  House  to  the  opinion  of  the 
celebrated  author  quoted  by  my  honorable 
friend  from  Victoria  Division  (Hon.  Mr, 
Ryan).  My  honorable  friend  quoted  some 
part  of  a  work  by  Mr.  John  Stuart  Mills, 
a  celebrated  writer  on  Representative  Govern- 
ment, but  he  did  not  go  far  enough.  Mr. 
Mills  says  : — 

The  consideration  which  tells  most  in  my 
judgment  in  favor  of  two  Chambers  (and  this 
I  do  regard  as  of  some  moment),  is  the  evil  eflPect 
produced  upon  the  mind  of  any  holder  of  power, 
whether  an  individual  or  an  assembly,  by  the 
consciousness  of  having  only  themselves  to  con- 
sult. 

This  is  perfectly  true.  But  what  does  my 
honorable  friend  advocate?  He  advocates 
that  the  whole  power  shall  be  concentrated  in 
the  General  Government ;  that  they  shall 
have  the  power  to  create  this  House,  so  that 
the  whole  power  shall  be  legally  centred  in 
"  one  body."  The  writer  he  quoted  goes  on 
and  condemns  that  principle  in  the  following 
words : — 

If  the  writings  by  which  reputation  has  been 
g-ainei  are  unconnected  with  politics,  they  ai-e 
no  evidence  of  the  special  qualities  required, 
while,  if  political,  they  would  enable  successive 
ministries  to  deluge  the  Hoase  with  party  tools. 

That  is  the  position  to  which  my  honorable 


34^0 


friend  would  drive  us.  He  would  give  the 
ministry  the  power  "  to  deluge  this  House 
with  party  tools."  He  then  went  on  and 
proved  too  much  with  regard  to  the  trade 
between  the  provinces.  He  said  New  Bruns- 
wick and  Nova  Scotia  would  take  our  manu- 
factures, ihat  already  we  had  large  manu- 
factures of  boots  and  shoes,  and  that  the 
Lower  Provinces  would  take  these  and  other 
manufactures  from  us.  And  then  he  told  us 
that  they  had  coal  in  Nova  Scotia,  and  that 
where  there  is  coal,raannfactures  will  spring  up. 

Hon.  Me.  RYAN — Coal  is  not  used  in  the 
manufacture  of  boots  and  shoes. 

Hon.  Mr.  REESOR— But  coal  makes  a 
manufacturing  country,  and  there  is  no  reason 
why  Nova  Scotia,  as  a  manufacturing  country, 
should  not  manufacture  boots  and  shoes  as 
cheaply  as  they  can  be  manufactured  at 
Montreal.  I  have  lately  learned  from  good 
authority  that  the  very  articles  to  which  my 
honorable  friend  refers  (boots  and  shoes)  are 
now  being  largely  manufactured  in  the  city  of 
St.  John.  Labor  is  quite  as  cheap  in  New 
Brunswick  as  in  Can  ida,  and  there  is  no 
rea.son  why  they  could  not  supply  themselves 
with  the  articles  named,  and  with  many  others, 
even  cheaper  than  they  can  be  supplied  from 
Canada. 

Hon,  Mr.  RYAN — As  regards  Mr.  Mills' 
opinions,  the  extract  I  read  was  this : — 

That  ihere  should  be  m  every  polity  a  centre 
of  resistance  to  the  predominant  power  in  the 
Coaslitutioa — and  in  a  democratic  Consiitufon, 
therefore,  a  nucleus  of  resistance  to  the  demo- 
cracy— i  have  already  maintained  ;  and  I  regard 
it  ad  a  fundamental  maxim  of  government-  If 
any  peop'e  who  possess  a  democratic  representa- 
tion are,  from  their  historical  antecedents,  moie 
willing  to  tolerate  such  a  centre  of  resistance  in 
the  form  of  a  Second  Chamber  or  House  cf 
Lords,  tLan  ii.  any  other  shape,  this  constitutes  a 
strong  reason  for  having  it  in  that  shape. 

Ho  admits  that  a  check  can  be  used,  and 
properly  used,  by  a  House  of  Lords  or  a 
Legislative  Council.  Then  he  goes  on  to  say 
that  he  does  not  think  this  the  best  check, 
and  prescribes  a  plau  of  his  own  ;  but  his 
Btatement  on  this  point  is  too  long  to  enter 
upon  now. 

Hon.  Mr.  CIIRRIE— I  wish  to  ask  the 
Hon.  Coinuiissiooer  of  Crown  Lands  a  ques- 
tion with  reference  to  the  meaning  of  the  5th 
sub-section  of  the  29th  clause,  which  com- 
mits to  the  General  Parliament  "  tlie  raising 
of  money  by  all  or  any  otlier  modes  cr  sys- 
em9  of  taxation."  Am  I  to  understand  that 
he  General  Qovernmeut  are  to  have  tho  pow- 


er of  imposing  local  taxation  upon  the  lands 
of  the  provinces  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL  — The  general 
national  power  of  taxation  is  to  be  in  tho 
General  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  34th  sub-sec- 
tion  of  the  same  clause  commits  to  the  Gen- 
eral Government  "  the  establishment  of  a 
general  Court  of  Appeal  for  the  Federated  pro- 
vinces." Is  that  to  be  in  lieu  of  the  Courts 
of  Appeal  we  now  have?  Is  it  intended  to 
do  away  with  the  present  Court  of  Appeal 
and  to  establish  a  new  one  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  do  not  think 
my  honorable  friend  has  caught  the  meaning 
of  what  is  intended.  It  does  not  say  the 
general  Court  of  Appeal  shall  be  established, 
but  that  the  power  to  establish  it  shall  be  in 
the  General  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— New  Courts  of  Ap- 
peal? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— If  a  statute  of 
the  Parliament  of  the  United  Provinces  shall 
be  passed  creating  a  Court  of  Appeal,  it  will 
state  whether  it  is  in  lieu  of,  or  in  addition 
to,  the  present  Courts  of  Appeal.  I  should 
suppose  it  would  be  in  addition. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— I  think  that  point 
is  one  which  we  ought  to  understand  bufore 
giving  a  final  vote;  and  I  do  not  think  the 
Hon.  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands,  with 
reference  to  it,  has  fulfilled  his  promise  to 
give  an  explicit  answer  to  any  question  which 
might  be  put,  to  elicit  further  information 
about  the  scheme.  Then  the  43rd  clause 
gives  the  Nova  Scotia  Legislature  power  to 
make  laws  respecting  export  duties  on  coal. 
What  is  the  meaning  of  that  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— I  thought  I 
had  explained  that  the  export  duty  there 
was  almost  synonymous  with  our  royalty.  It 
is  levied  in  lieu  of  a  royalty  at  the  mine ; 
and  we  therefore  permit  the  Nova  Scotia 
Government  to  exact  it  on  coal  coming  to 
this  country, 

Hon,  Mr,  CURRIE— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman  must  see  it  cannot  be  a  royalty,  be- 
cause the  royalty  must  apply  to  all  coal  con- 
sumed in  the  Province  of  Nova  Scotia,  while 
the  export  duty  only  applies  to  coal  exported 
from  that  province.  The  9th  sub-sectioa 
of  that  clause  imposes  on  the  local  govern- 
ments, "  the  establishment,  maintenance  and 
management  of  penitentiaries,  and  of  public 
and  relbrniatory  prisons,"  There  is  but  one 
penitentiary  in  Canada,  which  is  situated  in 
Upper  Canada,     Does  this  clause  impose  on 


341 


the  Local  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada  the 
construction  and  maintenance  of  a  new  Peni- 
tentiary, leaving  to  Upper  Canada  the  Peni- 
tentiary now  in  existence  in  that  province  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— No  doubt,  but 
Lower  Canada  may  arrange  with  Upper  C;i- 
nada  for  the  temporary  use  of  the  Peniten- 
tiary, so  long  as  she  requires  it,  or  for  its  per- 
manent use,  if  that  is  thought  better. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— By  the  6th  sub- 
section the  local  legislatures  have  the  control 
of  *'  Education  ;  saving  the  rights  and  privil- 
eges which  the  Protestant  or  Catholic  minor- 
ity  in  both  Canadas  may  possess  as  to  their 
denominational  schools  at  the  time  when 
the  union  goes  into  operation."  I  do  not 
know  whether  the  representations  which 
have  been  made  in  some  portions  of  the 
country  are  correct — that,  under  this  section 
the  Roman  Catholics  would  be  entitled  to  no 
more  schools  than  they  have  at  the  passing  of 
the  act  ?  Will  the  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands  please  explain  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— By  this  section 
it  is  affirmed  that  the  principle  of  action  with 
reference  to  those  schools  which  may  be  in 
existence  at  the  time  the  Confederation  takes 
effect,  shall  continue  in  operation.  Should 
this  Parliament  and  the  other  legislatures 
adopt  the  scheme,  and  if  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment adopts  an  act  giving  effect  to  it,  there 
will  be  found  in  existence  certain  principles 
by  which  the  minorities  in  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  will  be  respectively  protected,  and 
those  principles  will  continue  in  operation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — But  suppose  no 
alteration  is  made  in  the  Common  School  Law 
of  Upper  Canada — and,  as  I  understand,  none 
is  promised — would  the  Roman  Catholics  be 
entitled  to  establish  more  separate   schools  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  pre-ent 
Act  would  continue  to  operate,  and  the  hoaor- 
able  gentleman  knows  what  are  the  rights  of 
Roman  Catholic  schools  under  that  Act. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— That  is  the  way  in 
which  I  understand  it.  With  reference  to 
the  61st  clause,  I  would  ask  is  it  proposed,  at 
this  session  of  the  Legislature,  to  arrange  the 
balance  of  the  debt — not  taken  into  the  Con- 
federation— between  Upper  and  Lower  Can- 
ada? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— It  is  proposed, 
bel'ore  any  Federation  scheme  goes  into  oper- 
tion,  that  the  debt  shall  be  arranged  betwecij 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— In  the  64th  section 
t  is  provided  that,  ''in  consideration  of  the 
-raasfer  to  the   General  Parliament  of  the 


powers  of  taxation,  an  annual  grant  in  aid  of 
each  province  shall  be  made,  equal  to  eighty 
cents  per  head  of  the  population,  as  establish- 
ed by  the  census  of  1861  ;  the  population  of 
Newfoundland  being  estimated  at  130,000." 
Would  the  Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands 
state  why  the  population  of  Newfoundland  is 
to  be  estimated  at  130,000,  while  the  popula- 
tion of  the  other  provinces  is  taken  according 
to  the  census  of  1861 — Newfoundland  thus 
being  allowed  8,000  of  a  population  more  than 
it  would  be  entitled  to  undtsr  the  census,  and 
being  allowed  to  take  in  on  that  basis  $200,- 
000  more  of  debt,  and  also  receiving  more 
subsidy  than  it  would  otherwise  be  entitled 
to  ?  If  we  are  to  assume  that  the  population  of 
Newfoundland  increased  8,000  between  1861 
and  1864  or  1865,  why  should  not  a  similar 
increase  be  allowed  to  Canada?  Assuming 
that  the  population  of  Canada  increased  at  no 
more  rapid  rate,  we  would  have  an  increase  of 
160,000,  which  would  entitle  us  to  go  into 
the  Confederation  with  a  debt  exceeding  that 
with  which  we  now  go  in  of  upwards  of  $4,- 
000,000,  and  which  would  give  us  $130,000 
a  year  more  of  subsidy.  I  cannot  understand 
why  the  population  of  Newfoundland  should 
be  taken  at  130,000,  when  all  the  other  pro- 
vinces— most  of  them,  at  all  events,  increasing 
in  population  much  moi-e  rapidly  than  New- 
foundland— go  in  with  the  population  ascer- 
tained by  the  census  of  1861. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— The  reason  is 
just  this,  that  there  happened  to  be  no  census 
taken  iu  Newfoundland  in  1861.  The  last 
census  there  was  some  years  bel'ore — I  think 
in  1857.  The  estimated  increase,  if  I  recol- 
lect rightly,  was  based  on  the  increase  which 
had  taken  place  during  the  period  between  the 
previous  census  and  that  of  1857  ;  and,  taking 
that  ratio  of  increase,  it  was  found  that  the 
population,  at  the  time  of  the  union,  would  be 
close  upon  130,000.  We  therefore  put  it  at 
that  figure. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman is  right  iu  saying  that  the  last  census 
of  Newfoundland  was  taken  iu  1857;  but  the 
increase  should  have  been  reckoned  only  ibr  a 
period  of  ibur  years,  and  I  can  scarcely  be- 
lieve that  Newfoundland  could  be  entitled  to 
an  increase  of  8,000  in  its  population  in  lour 
years,  giving  to  that  colony  the  benefit  of 
four  years'  increase  more  than  Canada.  Our 
census  was  taken  in  1861. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPiiELL — Not  at  all;  we 
"11  go  iu  with  the  amounts  of  our  respective 
populations  estimated  at  the  same  time  ;  130,- 
000  was  the   estijAated   population  of  New- 


342 


foundland  at  that  date.  We  had  no  desire  to 
give  Newfoundland  any  advantage.  Its  popu- 
lation was  estimated  at  130,000  at  the  time 
at  which  the  populations  of  the  other  provin- 
ces were  t;iken. 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRTE— Perhaps  the  Hon. 
Commissioner  of  Crown  Lands  will  inform  us 
whether,  in  stating  the  revenues  of  the  various 
provinces,  the  customs  revenue  raised  on 
goods  exported  from  one  province  to  another 
was  taken  into  account  ?  Prince  Edward  Is- 
land, in  1861,  paid  customs  duties  amounting 
to  £17,769  sterling;  of  that,  only  £11,096 
was  paid  on  goods  imported  from  foreign 
countries,  or  countries  other  than  those  which, 
it  is  proposed,  shall  form  part  of  this  union  ; 
so  that  the  people  of  that  island  paid  only 
about  70  cents  per  head  in  duties  on  goods 
brought  in  from  countries  outside  the  proposed 
Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— What  do  you 
make  the  total  customs  revenue  of  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island  for  that  year  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CURRIE — Seveenteen  thousand' 
seven  hundred  and  sixty-nine  pounds  sterling. 
Great  Britain  furnished  the  largest  proportion 
of  the  imports;  then  Nova  Scotia;  then  the 
United  States;  then  New  Brunswick.  The 
whole  duties,  as  I  have  said,  paid  on  goods 
coming  from  other  countries  th^n  the  British 
Provinces,  were  £11,096,  or  about  two-thirds 
of  the  entire  customs  revenue. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAxMPBELL— I  suppose  the 
person  who  was  probably  the  best  informed 
about  the  state  of  the  revenue  in  Prince 
Edward  Island,  was  the  Secretary  of  the 
Treasury,  Hon.  Mr.  Pope;  and  our  estimate 
of  the  revenue  of  that  island  was  based  on 
a  printed  return  which  Mr.  PoPE  handed 
round  among  the  members  of  the  Conference, 
informing  us  what  had  been  the  revenue  of 
Prince  Edward  Island  in  1863,  and  for  a 
series  of  ye  irs  before  1863.  In  the  same  way 
Hon.  i\lr,  TiLLEY  furnished  the  statement  of 
revenue  for  New  Brunswick,  Dr.  TUPPER  for 
Nova  Scotia,  and  lion.  Mr.  (j-ALT  for  Canada  ; 
and  on  these  statements  furnished  by  the 
Ministers  of  Finance  for  the  various  pro- 
vinces the  estimates  were  based.  I  observe 
that  the  Minister  of  Finance,  lion.  Mr.  Galt, 
in  a  speecli  delivered  elsewhere,  puts  down  the 
totil  revenue  of  Pi-iuce  Edward  Island  at 
^197,000,  all  of  which  is  from  customs  and 
excise,  save  about  §32,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALEXANDER  — My  hon. 
friend  from  Niagara  (^Huu.  Mr.  CURRIE)  iu 
bis  own  speech  stated  the  revenue  of  Prince 
Edward  Island  at  $153,000. 


Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  then  rose  to  wind 
up  the  debate,  with  a  general  reply.  He 
said: — Hon.  gentlemen,  I  was  very  anxious 
that  ample  opportunity  should  be  given  to  the 
members  of  this  Honorable  House  to  express 
their  opinions  on  the  matter  which  has  been 
for  the  last  two  or  three  weeks  under  debate. 
And  now  as  I  see  no  member  disposed  to  rise, 
with  the  view  of  offering  any  further  remarks, 
I  think  the  time  has  come  when  the  debate 
may  be  closed,  if  such  is  the  pleasure  of  the 
House.  I  commenced,  hon.  gentlemen,  to 
take  notes — pretty  copious  notes — with  the 
view  of  answering  the  stjtemenis  and  argu- 
ments of  hon.  gentlemen  who  have  spoken  in 
opposition  to  the  scheme.  But,  at  the  sug- 
gestion of  some  of  my  friends,  I  have  taken 
my  pen  and  crossed  out  all  those  notes — 
(hear,  hear) — by  way  of  compromise,  if  I 
may  so  express  myself — (laughter) — and  in 
order  that  I  might  not  provoke  further  dis- 
cussion. I  hope  that  this  sacrifice  of  mine — 
for  it  is  a  sacrifice — (laughter) — will  be  taken 
in  good  part,  and  that  the  few  remarks  I  have 
now  to  make  will  not  be  of  a  nature  to  provoke 
any  reply.  In  the  first  place,  I  must  answer 
a  question  that  was  put  to  me,  I  think  by  my 
hon.  friend  from  St.  Clair  Division  (Hon. 
Mr.  ViDAL).  He  said  he  did  not  understand 
exactly  what  I  meant  by  the  province  being 
at  the  top  of  an  inclined  plane.  It  is  true 
that  in  going  over  very  rapidly  the  different 
topics  on  which  I  touched,  I  did  not  explain 
that  figure  very  fully.  But  I  stated  that  the 
province  stood  in  a  twofold  danger — of  being 
dragged  violently  into  the  American  Union, 
and,  in  the  next  place,  as  we  stood  on  an  in- 
clined plane,  of  slipping  down  gradually,  and 
without  our  being  aware  of  it,  into  the  vortex 
below.  It  seems  to  me  that  the  thing  was 
plain  enough.  Still,  as  I  am  a  Frenchman, 
and  cannot  express  myself  in  English  in  the 
manner  I  would  like,  I  think  1  should  be 
allowed  the  privilege  which  is  conceded  to  per- 
sons belonging  to  certain  foreign  nationalities. 
For  instance,  they  say  that  an  Englishman  is 
allowed  to  speak  once,  an  Irishman  twice — 


An     Hon. 

(Laughter.) 
Hon.   Sir 
times   be   it : 
Dutchman   ai 


MEMBER— Three     times. 

E.  P.  TACHE— Well,  three 
that  is  still  better.  And  a 
long   as  he  finds  it  necessary, 


until  he  can  make  himself  understood.  Well, 
1  want  to  have  the  privilege  allowed  to  the 
Dutchman.  (Laughter.)  As  to  being  drawn 
violently  into  the  American  Union,  if  this 
scheme  of  Confederation  does  not  take  place, 
it  seems  to  me  that  that  might  be  a  very  pro- 


34S 


bable  result  of  our  position.  Suppose  war  was 
declared  late  in  autumn,  at  the  close  of  navi- 
gation— with  the  little  means  we  have  here  of 
defending  ourselves,  we  would  be  placed  for 
five  months  in  a  very  disagreeable  and  trying 
position,  having  no  opportunity  of  obtaining 
the  powerful  succour  of  the  Mother  Country. 
(Hear,  hear.)  That  must  be  so  easily  under- 
stood, that  I  shall  make  no  further  remark 
upon  it.  But,  my  statement  about  the  pro- 
vince being  placed  upon  an  inclined  plane  may 
require  some  little  comment  and  explanation. 
I  say  that,  if  we  do  not  cultivate  with  our 
sister  provinces — the  Maritime  Provinces — a 
close  commercial,  political,  and  social  inter- 
course— being  all  of  us  British  subjects,  all 
of  us  monarchists,  owing  allegiance  to  the 
same  Crown — if  we  neglect  the  cultivation  of 
that  intercourse,  we  run  a  great  danger.  Wc 
are,  in  our  present  position,  small,  isolated 
bodies,  and  it  may  probably  be  with  us,  as 
in  the  physical  world,  where  a  large  body 
attracts  to  itself  the  smaller  bodies  within  thci 
sphere  of  its  influence.  If  we  do  not  make 
those  alliances  with  the  Lower  Provinces — if 
we  do  not  open  with  them  those  communica- 
tions, political,  social,  and  commercial,  which 
are  essential  for  our  own  interest,  we  shall 
little  by  little  lose  some  of  those  principles 
we  now  esteem  so  much  ;  we  shall  lose  little  by 
little  our  attachment  to  the  Mother  Country, 
and  the  interesting  reminiscences  which,  with 
many  of  us,  now  give  intensity  to  that  attach- 
ment ;  and  we  shall  become — you  may  depend 
upon  it,  hon.  gentlemen — more  and  more  de- 
mocratised, before  we  are  aware  of  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  really,  hon.  gentlemen,  if  I 
were  to  form  my  opinion  by  some  of  the 
speeches  which  we  have  heard  in  this  Honor- 
able House  since  this  debate  was  opened,  I 
think  there  are  some  hon.  gentlemen  who, 
from  the  way  in  which  they  have  expressed 
themselves,  might  be  supposed  to  be — although 
I  hope  in  reality  they  are  not — already  half 
way  down  the  inclined  plane.  (Hear,  hear 
and  laughter.)  Well,  hon.  gentlemen,  I  say 
that  if  we  want  to  avoid  that,  we  must  have 
a  Federal  union  with  our  fellow-subjects  of 
the  British  Provinces,  and  that  besides  we 
must  have  easy  means  of  access  to  the  sea- 
board, so  that,  in  case  of  danger,  help  can 
be  immediately  forwarded  to  Canada  and  to  all 
parts  of  this  Federal  union,  and  that  we  may 
have  a  powerful  army  of  Great  Britain  coming 
here  as  an  auxiliary  to  the  defence  which  I 
hope  we  shall  be  able  to  make  ourselves. 
(Hear,  hear.)  An  honorable  gentleman  has 
stated  that  1  expressed  myself  to  the  effect 


that,  if  this  Confederation  did  not  take  place, 
Canada  could  not  become  prosperous.  I  never 
said  anything  of  the  kind.  I  said  expressly 
the  contrary.  Perhaps  I  may  not  precisely 
apprehend  the  meaning  of  the  word  "  pros- 
perous." But  I  said  this,  that  Canada  had 
within  itself  all  the  means  to  become  popul- 
ous, to  become  wealthy,  to  become  a  groat 
people.  But  on  the  other  hand,  I  said  that 
Canada  and  the  other  British  American  Pro- 
vinces, without  union,  could  not  become  a 
"  powerful,"  as  distinguished  from  a  pros- 
perous people.  I  said  that  we  in  Canada 
could  not  become  a  powerful  people  unless  we 
had  some  maritime  elements,  unless  we  had 
the  means,  by  having  harbors  and  ports  of 
our  own  open  at  ail  seasons,  of  communicating 
freely  with  all  the  nations  of  the  world. 
(Hear,  hear.)  That  is  what  I  said.  I  never 
stated  that  Canada  could  not  become  prosper- 
ous, make  money,  and  so  forth.  No  ;  I  think 
Canada  can  do  that;  but  Canada,  even  though 
'its  population  should  reach  I'orty  millions — 
which  it  may  in  a  century  hence — can  never 
be  a  powerful  nation,  unless  its  povier  is  felt 
all  over  the  world  ;  and  how  can  its  power  be 
so  felt,  unless  it  has  its  seaports  open  all  the 
year  round  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I  said — 
"  Point  out  to  me  the  nation  in  this  world 
which  is  powerful,  that  has  not  some  maritime 
elements."  1  say  there  is  no  one  in  the 
world.  Every  nation  whose  power  has  been 
felt  over  the  globe,  has  been  a  nation  that 
had  some  maritime  outlet.  But  Canada, 
situated  as  it  is,  is  in  great  want  oi;'  free  ac- 
cess to  the  yea;  and,  as  long  as  we  are  shut 
up,  during  five  months  of  the  year,  without 
being  able  to  communicate  with  the  rest  of 
the  world  —  for,  notwithstanding  our  fine 
river,  we  cannot  be  said  to  have  a  real  mari- 
time element — we  are  in  truth  a  dependent 
people.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  some  notes  in 
French,  made  with  the  intention  of  answering 
honorable  gentlemen  who  spoke  in  that  lan- 
guage ;  but  I  think,  having  commenced,  that 
I  will  go  on  in  English.  It  has  been  asked  by 
several  honorable  gentlemen  how  we  were  to 
make  provision  for  the  protection  of  the  min- 
orities in  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  respec- 
tively. We  have  in  Upper  Canada  a  Catho- 
lic minority,  in  Lower  Canada  a  Protestant 
minority.  Well,  those  minorities  fcre  now  in 
possession  of  certain  rights ;  and,  ii'  we  were 
not  to  legislate  at  all  upon  those  rights,  my 
interpretation  of  the  scheme  is,  that  they 
would  still,  under  the  local  governments,  en- 
joy the  rights  which  they  now  possess.  But 
it  has  been  provided  that,  if  necessary,  addi- 


344^ 


tional  protection  shall  be  afforded  ;  and  in  that 
case,  I  say,  without  hesitation,  that  what  will 
be  done  for  one  portion  of  the  country  will 
also   be   done  for  the  other  portions — -justice 
tgale  distributive.       Hear,  hear.)     Honorable 
gentlemen   have    said    that   we   have    merely 
submitted    the    general    scheme  of  the  Gov- 
ernment, and  they  have    called    upon  us  to 
give  details — details    about    the    School  bill, 
details    about    the    local    governments,    and 
the    immense    string    of    other    details    em- 
braced in  the  amendment  moved  the  other  day 
by  my  hon.  friend  from  Grandville  (Hon.^Mr. 
Letellier  dk  St.  Just  j,  which  I  am  sure  was 
at  least  a  fathom  long,  and  a  very  long  fathom 
too.     ("Laughter.)     Now,  suppose  we  had  all 
these  matters  before  us,  could  we  really  digest 
such  a  mass  of  information  as  hon.  gentlemen 
have  asked  for  ?     It  seems  to  me  it  would 
be  like  introducing  liquids  into  a  vessel  whose 
mouth  is  very    small ;  if  you  throw   in    the 
liquid  rapidly  and  in  two  great  quantities,  the 
vessel  will  be  overflowed,  and  the  fluid  won't 
be  got  into  it.    I  think  we  have  enough  before 
us  at   present,  when  we  have   the  principal 
matter,  without  the    accessories.     For,  what 
would  be  the  use  of  the  accessories  if  you  reject 
the  principle  ?     (Hear,  hear.)     Depend  upon 
it,  as  soon  as  these  resolutions  are  concurred 
in,  then  the  details  will  be  given  one  after  the 
other ;    and  I  trust  they   will  be  of  such  a 
nature  as  to  meet  with  the  approval  of  the 
majority  of  this  Honorable   House.     (Hear, 
hear.)      Some  hon.    gentlemen  have  told  us 
that  this  was  not  a  Federal  union — that  the 
project  before   you,  hon.  gentlemen,   was  in 
point  of  fact  a  project  for  a  Legislative  union. 
One  hon.  gentleman  who  took  this  view  read 
the  29th  section,  in  order  to  shew  that  the 
General  Government,  if  it  chose,  could  repeal 
any   of  the  local  acts   of  the  different  local 
legislatures — that  the   General    Government, 
for  instance,  could  do  away  with  our  religious 
and  benevolent  corporations,  or  deprive  them 
of  their   property.       I    think  the    honorable 
gentleman  must  have  been  rather  short-sighted 
when    he  read    the    29th    resolution,   for    he 
omitted  a   very    important  part   of  it;   and, 
if  he  had  not  omitted    that   part,  I  do  not 
think  he  would  have  said  that  this  Federal 
sch.iiio  was  really  a  scheme  for  a  Legislative 
union.       I     iiave    no    doubt    my    honorable 
friend  acted  in  good  faith  ;  but  being  rather 
short-sighted,  he  did  not  read  the  whole  chiuse  ; 
otherwise  he  must  havo  arrived  at  a  different 
conclusion.      The    29th  section  says  :    "  The 
Genc.al    Parliament    shall      Lave    power     to 
muke  laws  for  the  peace,   welfare  and  good 


government  of  the  Federated  Provinces  (sav- 
ing the  sovereignty  of  England;,  and  especial- 
ly  laws  respecting    the  following    subjects." 
Then   follows  a  list  of  all  the  subjects  com- 
mitted to  the  General  Government.     But  the 
resolution  does  not  finish  there.      There  is 
something  that  comes  after  all  that,  and  it  is 
this :  "  And  generally  respecting  all  matters 
of  a  general  character,  not  specially  and  ex- 
clusively reserved  ior  the  local  governments 
and  legislatures."     Now  I  would  ask  honor- 
able gentlemen  if  an  act  incorporating  a  re- 
ligious   body  or  benevolent    society  here  in 
Lower  Canada  is  a  subject  of  a  general  char- 
acter ;  is  it  not  a  subject  purely  local  ?  (Hear, 
hear.)       Take,    for    instance,    the   sisters   of 
charity.       Could   the   General    Government, 
under  this  clause,  interfere  with  the  privileges 
of  those   ladies  ?     I  say  they  could   not.     I 
suppose   the  honorable   gentleman  who   used 
the  argument  advanced  it  conscientiously  and 
in  good  faith.     But  I  think  it  is  quite  evident 
from  a  reading  of  the  resolution  that,  if  Con- 
•  federation  takes  place,  the  General  Government 
will  have  no  power  to  interfere  with  such  mat- 
ters.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  must  say  positively, 
if  I  am  competent  to  draw  any  conclusion  at 
all  from  what  I  read,   that  the  General  Gov- 
ernment will  have  no  right  to  meddle  at  all 
with  those  religious  and  benevolent  corpora- 
tions,  none    in    the    world.       (Hear,    hear.) 
Remarks  have  also  been  made  about  the  laws 
of  divorce   and  marriage,  and  the  honorable 
member   for   the    division    of   DeLanaudiere 
(Hon.  Mr.  Olivier)  told  us  that  the  Con- 
ference   had    done    well   in    transferring   the 
power  of  divorce  to  the  General  Government. 
On  his  part,  I  think  this  was  a  wise  view  of 
the  question,  and  I  am  glad  to  have  the  oppor- 
tunity of  now  telling  him  so.     He  was,  how- 
ever, very  uneasy  about  the  word  "  marriage." 
Well,  I  will  try  to  put  him  right  and  at  his 
ease  on  that  point;   and  I  will  give   him  the 
answer   as  I  find   it  put  down  in  writing,  so 
that  no  possible   mii^undorstanding  may  con- 
tinue to  exist.     If  the  honorable  gentleman 
will  but  take  his   pen,  he  will  be  able  to  note 
my  answer  ; — "  I'hc  word  '  marriuge'  has  been 
inserted   to  give  the  General  Legislature  the 
right  to  decide  what  form  of  marriiige  will  be 
icgal  in  all  parts  iif  the  Confederation,  without 
in  any  way   interfering   with  the  rules   and 
prescriptions  of  the  Church  to  which  the  con- 
tracting parties  belong.  "     Anotln'r  honorable 
giiitleman — 1  think  the  honorable  member  for 
i)eLorimier  (lion.  Mr.  Bureau) — asked  me 
if  the  General  GoverninfUt  wouki    be  respon- 
sible lor    the   debts    contracted   by    Canada 


345 


prior  to  the  Federal  union  ?  I  replied  "  Yes, 
the  General  Government  would  be  liable 
for  all  the  debts  contracted  before  this 
date."  "  But,"  says  he,  "  there  are  certain 
sums  above  the  sixty-two  and  a  half  mil- 
lions of  dollars  which  will  have  to  be  settled 
as  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  And 
what  will  become  of  the  amount  due  to  the 
seigniors  ?  It  may  be  that  Lower  Canada 
will  repudiate  that  portion  of  the  debt  so 
allotted  her."  Well,  I  reply,  Lower  Canada 
cannot  do  that,  if  she  were  disposed  to  do  so  ; 
but  I  do  not  believe  that  Lower  Canada  would 
be  disposed  to  repudiate  a  debt  which  she  has 
herself  contracted — a  debt  of  honor — a  debt 
which  is,  as  it  were,  sacred.  But  even  if 
Lower  Canada  were  disposed  to  do  so,  the 
General  Government  are  liable  for  the  amount 
of  that  debt ;  and  as  the  General  Government 
has  to  give  to  Lower  Canada  a  subsidy  of  80 
cents  per  head,  it  would,  of  course,  take  very 
good  care  to  substract  from  the  amount  allotted 
to  Lower  Canada  the  interest  which  is  to  be 
paid  to  the  seigniors.  (Hear,  hear,  j  So  that 
on  that  score — I  do  not  know  if  the  hou. 
gentleman  is  himself  a  seignior  or  not,  but 
he  seems  to  take  a  great  interest  in  the  seig- 
niors— the  hon.  member  need  not  be  uneasy 
at  all. 

Hon. Mr. BUREAU— What  I  stated  was, 
that  under  the  authority  of  a  public  act, 
special  appropriations  have  been  made  for  the 
redemption  of  the  debt  due  to  the  seigniors, 
and  that  the  putting  aside  of  that  act  I  consider 
an  act  of  repudiation.  Then,  for  the  sake  of 
argument  I  stated  this,  that  you  are  shewing 
an  example  of  repudiation.  But  I  added  that 
if  you  were  going  to  pay  to  Lower  Canada 
whit  you  state,  for  her  Local  Government ; 
in  the  event  of  her  refusing  to  pay  the  seig- 
niors, probably  the  General  Government  would 
retain  sufficient  from  the  80  cents  per  head 
apportionment  for  that  purpose.  I  do  not 
wish  to  push  the  argument  further ;  and  I 
may  state  that  it  was  only  for  the  sake  of 
argument  that  I  advanced  the  proposition. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— No  law  has 
been  repealed — no  repudiation  taken  place. 
The  seignors,  as  it  appears  to  me — I  may  not 
have  understood  the  law,  for  I  am  no  lawyer 
— will  have  addititional  security.  That,  it 
seems  to  me,  is  a  plain  fact.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Then  the  hon.  member  from  DeLorimier  found 
a  great  deal  of  fault  with  the  manner — I  must 
say  the  able  manner  in  which  the  gallant 
Knight  (Hon.  Sir  N.  P.  Belleau)  explained 
the  action  of  responsible  government  in  this 
oountry.  The  honorable  Knight  shewed  how 
45 


responsible  government  protected  the  French 
Catholics  in  Lower  Canada  under  Confeder- 
ation, saying  that  if  ever  an  act  of  flagrant 
injustice  was  to  be  attempted  in  the  Federal 
Government,  the  whole  of  the  Lower  Canndians 
would  join  as  one  man,  and  by  uniting  with 
the  minority  against  the  Government  —  be- 
cause honorable  gentlemen  must  know  that 
there  always  will  be  minorities — by  means  of 
thus  strengthening  the  minority  any  Admin- 
isti-ation  could  be  ousted  out  of  their  places  in 
twenty-four  hours.  My  honorable  friend 
stated  this,  and  he  stated  it  justly  ;  he  said 
so,  well  aware  of  what  he  was  saying.  But 
the  honorable  gentleman  from  DeLorimier 
comes  forward  and  says :  "  Don't  you  recol- 
lect that  at  one  time  the  Upper  Canadians, 
with  the  minority  from  Lower  Canada,  united 
to  impose  upon  Lower  Canada  their  will?"  I 
teU  you,  honorable  gentlemen,  that  they  never 
did  harm  to  Low^  r  Canada,  and  that  they 
never  could  do  harm  to  Lower  Canada  had 
they  so  chosen.  And  why  ?  The  French 
had  the  use  of  their  own  lansruaoe  conceded 
to  them  in  order  to  bring  them  to  support  the 
Government,  and  much  more  would  have  been 
done  to  accomplish  the  same  end.  I  am  re- 
ferring now  to  the  Government  of  the  day 
from  1844  to  1848.  That  Government  would 
have  given  you,  what  was  passed  afterwards, 
an  act  to  secure  to  the  suflferers  the  payment 
of  their  losses,  the  Rebellion  Losses  Bill. — 
They  would  have  given  every  shilling  of  those 
losses,  and  they  would  have  given  you  more 
if  you  would  have  consented  to  become  their 
followers.  The  honorable  gentleman  made 
out  no  case  at  all,  and  he  could  not  have 
studied  parliamentary  history  since  1841  cor- 
rectly. Had  he  done  so,  he  would  have  found 
that  at  that  period  what  was  called  responsi- 
ble ooverntnent  was  not  worked  out.  Sir 
Charles  Bagot,  it  is  true,  had  lent  himself 
to  the  views  of  his  advisers,  and  responsible 
government  had  been  going  on  perfectly  un- 
der him  ;  but  then  he  died  here,  and  honora- 
ble gentlemen  must  understand  that  Lord 
Metcalf  was  opposed  to  responsible  gov- 
ernment. 

Hon.  Mr.  BUREAU— Still  we  had  re- 
sponsible government. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— You  had  it  in 
name  only,  but  not  in  practice ;  otherwise  Hon. 
Mr.  Baldwin  and  Hon.  Mr.  Lafontaine 
would  never  have  left  the  Cabinet.  They  re- 
signed their  seats  in  Council  because  they  held 
theia?8lves  responsible  to  Parliament,  while 
Lord  Metcalf  chose  to  appoint  persons  to  office 
without  consulting  them,  as  his  constitutional 


346 


advisers.  Well,  then,  I  assert  that  the  ca?e 
the  honorable  uentleinan  has  cited  to  show 
that  my  honorable  friend  on  the  other  side 
was  wrong,  is  no  case  at  all.  It  is  not  appli- 
cable in  any  respect  to  present  circumstances, 
because,  I  repeat  it  again,  we  had  not  respon- 
sible government  at  that  time. 

HoxN.  Mr.  BUREAU— We  have  not 
responsible  government  yet,  then. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— How  doco  the 
honorable  gentleman  make  that  out  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BUllEAU— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman has  stated  that  since  the  death  of 
Lord  Bagot  we  have  not  had  responsible 
government. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE— The  honorable 
(jentleman  cannot  surely  have  understood  me. 
I  think  I  said  that  under  Lord  Metcalf 
there  was  responsible  government  in  name 
but  not  in  deed.  And  if  the  honorable  gentle- 
man will  study  our  parliamentary  history  a 
little  closer,  he  will  admit  that  such  was  the 
case.  The  consequence  was,  as  I  have  already 
stated,  the  resignation  of  Hon.  Messrs.  Lafon- 
TAiNE  and  Baldwin.  Still  the  Lower  Cana- 
dian party  was  unbroken.  It  is  true  the  new 
advisers  of  Lord  Metcalf  c  quetted  much 
with  that  majority  to  obtain  adhesion  ;  but  it 
was  in  vain.  They  remained  firm  to  the 
last,  until  the  general  election  of  1848  brought 
back  the  parties  to  Parliament  in  much  about 
their  natural  strength.  I  have  already  stated 
that  I  have  destroyed  my  notes,  and  I  am 
ready  to  await  the  verdict  of  this  honorable 
House.     (Applause.) 

Hon.  Mr.VIDAL  said— Honorable  gentle- 
men, as  I  consider  it  my  duty  to  vote  for 
the  motion  now  before  the  House,  I  think  it 
desirable  to  clear  myself  from  the  impiitation 
of  inconsistency  in  having  supported  the 
amendiuents  which  have  been  proposed,  and 
which  the  House  has  rejected.  I  may  state 
that  my  views  as  to  the  desirableness  of  sub- 
mitting the  question  to  the  people  are  un- 
changed ;  the  plan  has  beeti  voted  down,  but  no 
argumenthas  been  adduced  to  demonstrate  that 
it  was  wrong  in  principle,  or  likely  to  destroy 
the  scheme.  I  have  previously  expressed  my 
general  approval  of  the  Confederation,  and  that 
my  desire  was  to  secure  its  permanency  by 
having  its  foundation  broad  and  deep  in  the 
expressed  approval  of  the  people.  Submission 
of  the  proposal  to  them  lias  been  refused,  and 
the  only  (juestion  now  for  me  to  decide  is 
whetlier  I  should  acc(!pt  the  scheme  as  it  is, 
or  vote  for  its  rejection  altogether.  Under 
these  circumstances,  1  have   no  dithcully   in 


deciding  that  I  must  support  the  motion  for 
ixs  adoption.     (Hear,  hear.) 

The  question  was  then  put  on  the  main 
motion,  which  was  carried  on  the  following 
division  : — 

CoNTtxTS. — Hoiioraljle  Mes-sicuis  Alexander, 
Allan,  Annand,  Sir  N  F.  Bellean,  Bennett,  Fer- 
giiison  Blair,  Blake,  Boulton,  Bcssc,  Bull,  Bum- 
ham,  Camphell,  Christie,  Ciawl'ord,  De  Beaiijeu, 
Dickson,  A.  J.  Duchesnay,  E.  H.  J.  Duchefnay, 
Dumouohel,  Ferricr,  Foster,  Gingras,  Gu^vre- 
mont,  Hamilton  (luktrmaTi).  Hamilton  (King- 
Rfon),  Lacoste,  I  eonaid,  Leslie,  McCrea,  Mc- 
Donald, McMaster,  Macpherson,  Mathe.son,  Mills, 
Panet,  Price,  Read,  Ronaud,  Koss,  Hyan,  Shaw, 
Skead,  Sir  E.  P.  Tache,  Vidal.  and  Wilson  —45. 

NoN-CoNTENTS. — Honoiable  Messieurs  Aikins, 
Archambault,  Armstrong,  Burean,  Chaffers,  Cur- 
rie,  Flint,  Letellier  de  St.  Just,  Malhi">t,  Moore, 
Olivier,  Pioulx,  Feesor,  Sevmour,  and  Simpson. 
—1.5. 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHE  moved,  seconded 
by  Hon.  Mr.  Fergusson  Blair,  that  a  select 
committee  be  appointed  to  draft  an  Address 
founded  on  the  said  resolution,  and  that  the 
committee  be  composed  of  Honorable  Messrs. 
Campbell,  Fergusson  Blair,  Ross,  Chris- 
tie, Sir  N.  F.  Belleau,  and  the  Mover. — 
Carried. 

The  House  adjourned  during  pleasure  ;  and 
on  resuming, 

Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  TACHf:  reported  the  Ad- 
dress, and  moved,  seconded  by  Hon.  Mr.  Fer- 
gh.sson  Blair,  that  it  be  agreed  to. — Carried. 

It  was  then  ordered  that  the  Address  be 
engrossed,  signed  by  the  Speaker,  and  pre- 
sented to  His  Excellency  the  Governor  Gen- 
eral by  the  whole  House.  Tt  was  also  ordered 
that  such  members  of  the  Executive  Council 
as  art;  members  of  this  House,  do  wait  on 
His  Excellency  the  Governor  General,  to 
know  what  time  His  Excellency  will  please  to 
appoint  to  be  attended  with  the  said  Address. 

The  House  then  adjourned. 


LEGISLATIVE    ASSEMBLY 


Monday,  February  20,  1805. 

Mil.  JULY  said — Mr.  Spkakku,  when  it 
is  proposed  to  cluingo  the  Constitution  of 
the  country,  it  beecmes  our  duty  to  study 
with  the  greatest  care,  and  from  every  dis- 
tinct point  of  view,  the  m  w  Constitution 
which  it  is  proposed  to  substitute  for  the 
existing  one;  and  in  doing  so  we  ought  not. 
to    disdain    the    eiperienoo   of    past    ag«8 


347 


History  is  the  statesman's  safest  gaide ;  it 
ought  to  be  the  basis  of  all  his  couceptions  ; 
indeed  it  would  be  treating  its  lessons  with 
contempt,  were  we  to  attempt  to  dispose  of 
the  future  without  first  knowing  how  Provi- 
dence has  disposed  of  the  p:ist.  To  make 
use  of  a  maxim,  common,  but  yet  most  truth- 
ful :  "  There  is  nothing  new  under  the  sun;" 
the  history  of  the  world  is  a  coastantly 
revolving  scene ;  the  same  events  pass  and 
repass  before  our  eyes  under  aspects  varied 
enough,  it  is  true,  to  deceive  the  superficial 
observer,  but  the  man  who  thinks  and 
investigates  will  have  no  difficulty  in  dis- 
covering that  at  all  periods  of  the  world's 
history,  men  have  allowed  themselves  to  be 
controlled  by  tlie  same  motives  and  'passions, 
and  will  arrive  at  the  inevitable  conclusion 
that  like  causes  produce  like  effects.  The 
honorable  ministers  who  have  unfolded  to 
us  the  scheme  of  Confederation  have  based 
all  their  arguments  on  the  future ;  ih^y 
have  tried  to  prophecy,  but  ibr  them  the 
history  of  the  past  is  a  dead  letter.  Before 
attempting  to  predict  the  fate  of  our  future 
Confederation,  they  should  first  have  told  us 
^hat  had  been  the  fate  of  past  confeJer- 
ationg.  It  does  not  suffice  to  paint  a  splendid 
picture  of  grandeu:  and  prosperity;  let  it 
first  be  ascertained  that  the  foundations  on 
which  the  edifice  is  to  be  erected  are  sure 
and  proved,  and  that  established,  we  may 
then  begin  to  build  with  safety.  As  has 
been  said  by  one  of  the  great  professors  of 
political  science  :  "  The  wisdom  of  a  states- 
man is  the  result  of  experience  and  not  of 
theory."  I  am  by  no  means  astonished, 
however,  at  the  repugnance  evinced  by  the 
advocates  of  Confederation  to  make  allinion 
to  the  past..  The  Minister  of  Agriculture 
alone  has  had  the  courage  to  open  the 
volume  of  the  world's  history,  and  he  hastily 
closed  it  with  tiie  significant  remark,  especi- 
ally so  falling  from  his  lips  : — 

In  all  the  constitutions  in  which  the  Federal 
principle  has  been  adopted,  it  cannot  be  denied 
that  the  same  fatal  vice  is  to  be  discerned — the 
weakness  of  the  central  authority.  This  has  been 
the  fatal  disease  in  all  confederations  of  which  I 
have  heard,  or  whose  histories  I  have  read.  They 
have  died  of  consumption. 

What  the  Government  has  not  been  willing 
to  do,  I  now  propose  to  do.  Let  us  take 
counsel  of  those  nations  which  have  adopted 
federative  constitutions,  and  may  the  recital 
of  their  unhappy  experience  be  of  use  to  us 
by  placing  us  on  our  guard  against  the  same 


dangers.  I  propose  to  cast  a  brief  glance 
on  the  history  of  each  Confederation.  I  do 
not  propose  to  lay  before  you  my  own  views, 
and  ask  you  to  adopt  them,  but  rather  those 
ot  men  of  eminence,  who  have  made  the  art 
uf  good  government  the  study  of  their  lives. 
I  shall  indeed  make  use,  as  nearly  as  I 
possibly  c;in,  of  the  very  language  which 
they  have  used.  Lord  Brougham,  who  is 
listened  to  with  profound  respect  in  the 
Imperial  Parliament,  thus  expre.s8e.s  his 
views  in  the  third  part  of  his  work  on 
Political  Philosophy  : — 

Besides  the  other  defects  of  the  Federal  union, 
its  manifest  tendency  to  create  mutual  estrange- 
ment, uud  even  hostility,  between  the  dilFereut 
parts  of  the  same  nation,  is  an  insuperable  objec- 
tion to  it. 

And  further  on  he  adds: — 

Whoever  would  see  further  proofs  of  this  posi- 
tion, may  be  refeired  to  the  ancient  common- 
wealths of  Greece.  As  a  Florentine  hated  a 
Sienueae  v.'orse  than  a  German  or  a  Spaniard,  or 
even  an  infidel,  in  modern  times,  so  of  old  did  an 
Athenian  hate  a  Spartan  or  a  Theban  worse  than 
a  Per-sian.  Now,  the  Federal  union,  by  keepin<^ 
up  a  line  of  separation  among  its  members,  gives 
the  freest  .scope  to  these  pernicious  prejudices — 
feelings  which  it  is  the  highest  duty  of  all  govern- 
ments to  eradicate,  because  they  lead  directly  to 
confusion  and  war. 

Passing  froni  the  confederacies  of  Greece 
and  Italy  to  those  of  the  Seven  United  Pro- 
vinces (uow  Holland  and  Belgiuni),  we  there 
find  the  same  state  of  things.  Lot  us  hear 
what  Lord  Macaulay  says  in  the  fii-st 
volume  of  his  RiMory  oj  Enytand  : — 

The  union  of  Utrecht,  hastily  established  amid 
the  throes  of  a  revolution,  with  the  view  of  pro- 
viding for  the  exigencies  of  tlie  moment,  had 
never  been  considered  with  calmness,  nor  brought 
to  perfection  in  a  period  of  tranquillity.  Each 
one  of  the  Seven  Provinces,  which  this  union 
bound  together  in  one  cluster,  retained  nearly  all 
the  rights  of  sovereignty,  and  exacted  from  the 
i'^ederal  Government  the  most  absolute  respect  of 
its  rights.  As  the  Federal  authorities  had  no 
means  of  enforcing  prompt  obedience  from  the 
Provincial  authorities,  so  these  latter  were  equally 
powerless  as  regarded  the  Municipal  authorities. 

The  advocates  of  Confederation  take  pleasure 
in  citing  the  result  of  the  Swiss  (or  Helvetic) 
Confederacy  as  an  exception  to  the  disas- 
trous fate  awaiting  all  confederations;  but 
Switzerland  posses.^es  all  the  germs  of  this 
fatal  malady,  as  witness  the  civil  and  reli- 
gious war  of  the  Sonderbund.  Here,  how- 
ever, the  symptoms  are  less  violent  than 
in  other  confed(!rations,  on  account  of  its 


348 


exceptional  position ;  France,  Prussia  and 
Austria  are  deeply  interested  in  maintaining 
the  existence  of  Switzerland  as  a  neutral  and 
independent  state — it  is  indispensable  to  their 
safety.  Were  it  not  so,  the  last  hour  of  the 
Helvetic  Confederacy  would  have  sounded 
long  a^o.  If  we  pass  from  the  confeder- 
ations of  tliG  old  woi'ld  to  those  of  the 
new,  we  shall  find  that  the  climate  of  Ame- 
rica appears  to  be  still  more  fatal  to  confed- 
erations than  that  of  Europe.  Let  us  begin 
with  the  Central  American  Confederacy  or 
E.epulilic  of  Guatemala.  It  was  established 
in  1821,  and  was  composed  of  five  states  : 
Gruatemala,  Honduras,  San  Salvador,  Nica- 
ragua, and  Costa  Rica.  In  1829,  that  is  to 
say,  after  an  interval  of  eighteen  years  only, 
Hondurys  set  the  example  by  seceding  from 
the  Confederation,  rn  example  which  was  very 
soon  followed  by  the  four  other  states,  and 
that  Confederation  has  ceased  to  exist,  after 
a  brief  existence,  in  the  midst  of  revolu- 
tions and  civil  wars.  The  Confederation  of 
Columbia  was  formed  in  1819  of  the  twelve 
provinces  freed  by  Bolivar  from  the  dominion 
of  Spnin.  After  endless  troubles  and  revo- 
lutions, they  separated  in  1831  (after  an 
existence  of  12  years)  into  three  indepen- 
dent republics,  though  reunited  under  the 
name  of  Confederation  of  the  United  states 
of  South  America-  New  Grenada,  Venezuela 
and  Ecuador.  I  hold  in  my  hand  a  Vdlume 
of  the  Annuair'  de<<  Deux  Momtea,  containing 
a  general  history  of  the  different  states 
during  the  years  1853  and  1854.  I  will  not 
occupy  the  time  of  the  House  by  entering 
into  tht!  details  of  that  history;  I  shall  epito- 
mize it  by  reading  a  few  lii.es  from  the  table 
of  contents,  in  which  we  find  mention  made 
of  the  principal  events  in  the  most  succinct 
form.  I  read  from  this  table  as  follows : — 
"  Venezuela — General  condition  of  Vene- 
zuela— Insurrection  of  1853 — Insurrecfion 
of  1854:."  One  per  annum,  one  would  soon 
become  used  to  insurrections  and  think  but 
little  of  tlicm  in  that  happy  country.  '•  (loni- 
pul-sory  Loans  " — I  .suppose  one  iu;jy  get  used 
to  these  operations  in  coarse  of  time,  however 
disagreeable  they  may  be.  At  all  events, 
if  matters  turn  out  well  with  the  com- 
pulsory borrowers,  as  1  have  no  doubt 
they  do,  they  do  not  leave  (>nough  to 
their  compulsory  creditors  to  make  it  worth 
their  while  to  renew  the  operation  annu- 
ally, and  thus  we  see  that  compulsory  loans 
are  not,  effi-cted  every  year  in  Veneznela 
with  the  same  regularity  in  which  the  insur- 
rections there  are  carried  out.   '*  New  Grenada 


— movements  of  parties;"  I  augur  nothing 
good  from  this  movement.  "  The  Golgothaa 
and  Draconians" — probably  the  liberals  and 
conservatives,  who  have  had  the  singular 
taste  to  assume  these  villainous  titles  and 
who  discuss  the  question  of  the  day  by 
musketry  practice — "struggles  of  parties  and 
threats  of  military  revolution;  movement  of 
I7th  April."  Still  another  movement — 
"  uprising  of  the  Provinces;" — here,  at  all 
events,  we  have  an  unmistakable  movement, 
as  to  the  nature  of  which  there  can  be  no 
doubt  whatever.  ''  Present  state  of  the 
civil  war." — In  NewGrenada civil  war  figures 
in  the  quotations  just  as  in  Canada ;  we 
quote  transactions  in  flour  or  lumber;  it  ix 
their  normal  conditi(m  I  hear  an  honorable 
member  exclaim  *'  Oh,  but  they  are  savages !" 
They  are  not  savages  ;  but  I  am  free  to  con- 
fess they  behave  like  savages.  This  is  but 
the  ordinary  effect  of  civil  war ;  as  witness 
what  is  passing  amongst  our  neighbors  in 
the  United  States.  But  let  us  proceed  to 
another  confederation.  Bolivia  and  Lower 
Peru  formed  them.selves  into  a  Confederacy 
in  1836.  This  Confederacy  was  burn  and 
lived  and  died,  the  whole  in  three  years, 
between  1836  and  1839,  hardly  allowing 
time  to  begin  to  write  its  history.  Next  we 
have  the  confederation  of  the  United  Pro- 
vinces of  Rio  de  la  Plata  or  Argentine  Re- 
public, established  in  1816,  by  the  union  of 
fourteen  independent  provinces.  BouiLLET, 
alter  having  refened  to  the  promulgation  of 
the  new  Constitution,  continues  in  the  foil  >w- 
ing  terms : — 

This  Constitution,  however,  does  not  prevent 
the  united  provinces  of  Rio  do  ia  Plata  from 
bein^  a  prey  to  anarchy.  The  federalists  and  the 
Hnti-iederalists  are  continually  at  war.  Manufac- 
tures there  are  none ;  and  the  trade  ia  very  limited. 

In  that  same  table  of  contents  of  the  An- 
nuaire  des  Deux  Mundes,  I  read  *  *  *  "Civil 
war  and  raising  of  the  siege  of  Buenos  Ay  res — 
separate  Constitution  lor  Buenos  Ayres  *  *  * 
— Struggle  between  the  parties,  and  financial 
di.  tress — Disturbance  i^cvhauffouree)  of  the 
18th  July  1853."  I  suppose  this  word  means 
something  half-way  between  a  movement  and 
an  insurrection,  "  Revolution  of  the  25tli  Sep- 
tember." Events  succeed  each  other  rapid- 
ly. "  Civil  war — Intervention  of  Jirazil." 
Hut  all  this  passed  in  1853  and  1854.  It  is 
jincieut  history.  Let  us  look  at  a  few  jour- 
nals of  last  week  or  the  week  before.  What 
do  we  find  ?  Here  is  a  specimen  or  two  : 
"  The  President  of  San  Salvador  in  his 
speech  at  the  opening  of  the  House  defends 


349 


himself  indignantly  against  the  imputation 
of  a  wish  to  annex  Central  America  to 
Mexico/'  or  take  another  article;  "  Hostili- 
ties have  recommenced  between  the  Empire 
of  Brazil  and  the  Republic  of  Uraguay,"  one 
of  the  States  of  the  Argentine  Confedera- 
tion. **  Paraguay,  an  ally  of  Uraguay,  has  also 
declared  war  against  Brazil.  The  latter  is 
assisted  by  the  revolutionary  party  in  Uja- 
guay,  under  the  orders  of  General  Flores.  A 
Brazilian  fleet  assisted  by  General  Flores  and 
the  revolutionists  of  Uraguay,  has  burnpd 
Paysandu,  the  capital  of  Uraguay  *  *  *  so 
that  Uraguay  is  torn  at  the  same  time  by  civil 
war  and  a  foreign  war."  This  is  a  lament- 
able state  of  affairs  !  How  prudently  minis- 
ters have  acted  in  omitting  all  mention  of 
these  sad  scenes,  in  asking  us  to  vote  for 
Confederation  I  They  would  have  spoiled 
their  brilliant  picture  by  too  great  a  depth 
of  shadow.  Passy,  in  his  M^moire  sur  les 
fermes  de  Gouverntment  et  les  causes  qui  les 
d'eterminent,  {Memoires  de  I'lnstitut,  Scietices 
morales  et  puh'tiques,  2e  serie,  vol.  S,)  ex- 
pre8:>es  himself  as  follows,  speaking  of  all 
these  South  American  Coofederatioos  : 

Seldom  does  a  year  pass,  without  fresh  rebel- 
lions breaking  out  among  them  ;  very  seldom  do 
the  heads  of  the  governments  reach  the  legal  term 
of  their  functions.  The  presidentships  are  ephe- 
meral dictatorships,  the  prize  of  generals  who, 
exiles  one  day,  are  at  the  head  of  armies  the  next, 
while  the  states  themselves  sometimes  confeder- 
ate, agaia  independent,  are  constantly  changiag 
their  forms  of  government  and  their  asoect. 

Pai;8Y  assigns  two  main  causes  for  these 
occurrences.  The  absence  of  homogeneity 
or  common  origin,  and  the  want  of  know- 
ledge. As  <"€  thi.«  want  of  knowledge,  I  must 
observe  that  there  are  few  nations  in  the 
world,  if  any,  the  population  of  which  is 
generally  as  enlightened  as  that  of  the  United 
States  of  North  America,  and  yet,  at  this 
very  time,  we  see  the  dogs  o"'  civil  war  let 
loose  among  them  and  raging  as  fiercely  as 
ever  they  did  among  the  confederate  govern- 
ments of  South  America.  As  to  the 
absence  of  homogeneity  talked  of  by  Passy, 
if  it  exists  to  such  an  extent  as  to  lead 
to  these  sad  results  among  the  confeder- 
ations of  South  America,  in  which  all  the 
citizens  are,  without  exception,  Catholics, 
speaking  the  same  language,  and  who  all 
within  a  few  years  fought  side  by  side  against 
their  common  enemy,  Spain,  to  achieve 
their  liberty, — if  they  are  deficient,  I  say, 
in  homogeneity,  what  is  the  case  with  us  ? 
Protestants  and   Catholics,  French,  English 


and  Irish  speaking  two  different  languages. 
The  strongest  bond  of  union  among  the 
citizens  of  a  state  is  a  community  r.f  language 
and  religion.  We  have  neither  in  common. 
The  confederations  of  South  ^Vmerica  have 
both,  and  yet,  as  Passy  says,  they  have  not 
sufficient  homogeneity  to  afford  a  hope  that 
they  can  ever  live  in  peace  under  a  federal 
regime.  Mexico  was  constituted  a  Confeder- 
ation in  1824.  In  1837  it  was  united,  and 
the  union  subsisted  till  1846,  except  three 
years  of  dictatorship.  In  1846  the  Federal 
principle  again  prevailed,  but  dis;'ppeared 
in  1853,  since  which  period  the  history  of 
Mexico  is  too  generally  known  to  need  re- 
petition in  this  place.  It  is  written  with 
the  blood  of  its  citizens.  I  shall  merely 
mention  the  United  States  of  North  America. 
I  do  not  pretend — I  do  not  possess  the  ability 
— to  trace  out  the  real  sources  of  the  im- 
mense civil  war  by  which  they  are  now  rent 
in  pieces.  Enough  for  me  to  say,  that  no- 
body is  to  consider  slavery  as  the  only  cause 
of  the  civil  strife.  More  than  thirty  years 
ago  upon  a  question  of  tariff  whicti  went  to 
protect  the  manufacturers  of  the  North  at  the 
expense  of  the  planters  of  the  Suuth,  South 
Carolina  sounded  the  signal  of  insurrection, 
a.^  she  since  did  in  1861 ;  and  had  it  not  been 
for  the  firmness  of  General  Jackson,  who 
overstepped  his  powers  to  save  his  country, 
the  civil  contest  would  have  commenced  at 
that  time.  It  was  sure  to  come  on  ;  it  was 
only  delayed  for  a  while.  These  were  all 
trials  of  the  Confederate  system. 

Mr.  CORNELLIER— All  the  conleder- 
ations  which  you  have  mentioned  were  or 
are  r- publican,  aud  had  the  common  fate  of 
republican  institutions.  You  have  not  said 
a  word  about  monarchical  confederations. 

Mr.  JOLY — 1  have  made  no  mention  of 
monarchical  confederations,  because  none 
have  ever  existed,  and  none  can  exist.  The 
principle  of  a  monarchy  is  that  the  power 
resides  in  one  person ;  the  principle  of  con- 
federation is  that  it  resides  in  all  the  mem- 
bers of  the  confederation.  A  confederation 
would,  therefore,  always  be  a  republic,  even 
if  formed  of  several  states  subject  to  a  mon- 
archy; because  the  power  would  not  be 
vested  in  one  person,  but  in  each  of  the 
several  states,  of  which  no  one  would 
acknowledge  a  head ;  it  would  be  a  republic 
consisting  of  a  very  small  number  of  mem- 
bers. Before  I  take  leave  of  all  the  confe- 
derations, the  names  of  which  1  have  men- 
tioned, I  intend  to  say  one  word,  at  least,  in 
their   favor.       We   understand  that   states 


350 


perfectly  independent  of  one  another,  and 
not  subject  to  any  authority  bearing  equally 
on  them  all,  may  have  agreed  (notwithstand- 
ing the  inconveniences  of  confederation)  to 
become  confederate  for  the  purpose  of 
strengtliening  themselves  to  resist  a  common 
enemy.  So  much  they  n)ay  have  done. 
But  we  do  not  understand  how  provinces  like 
ours,  which  have  no  existence  independent 
of  each  other,  but  are  all  subject  to  the  same 
authority,  need  have  recourse  to  confeder- 
ation for  the  purpose  of  cementing  a  union 
which  already  exists.  Confederation,  by 
marking  more  strongly  the  lines  of  demar- 
cation between  them,  spoken  of  by  Lord 
Brougham,  renders  any  more  intimate  con- 
nection between  them  for  the  future  impos- 
sible. We  are  like  bars  of  iron  strongly 
welded  together,  which  men  should  try  to 
unite  more  strongly  to  each  other  by  tearing 
them  asunder  Lo  reunite  them  with  shoe- 
maker's paste.  Some  will  answer,  "  True  ! 
the  Federal  principle  has  always  and  in  every 
case  proved  a  lailure,  but  the  cause  lay  in 
the  weakness  of  the  central  power.  We 
shall  obviate  that  inconvenience, by  establish- 
ing a  central  power  strong  enough  to  pre- 
serve our  Confederation  from  that  danger.'" 
But  then  it  will  be  no  long-r  a  Confeder- 
ation ;  it  will  be  a  legislative  union — a  union 
which  the  most  zealous  advocates  of  Confe- 
deration reject  as  incompatible  with  the 
various  interests  of  the  diflFerent  provinces. 
If  you  succeed  in  establishing  this  central 
power,  with  strength  enough  to  bear  sway 
over  the  local  powers,  the  latter  will  no 
longer  have  an  exclusive  existence  ;  they 
will  becouiu  the  authorized  delegates  of  the 
ceutial  power,  their  oflBcers  and  every  vestige 
of  confederation  will  disappear  from  your 
Constitution.  If  you  absolutely  resolve  to 
adopt  the  Federal  principle,  you  cannot  do 
it  without  adu})ting  at  the  same  time  all  its 
inconveniences.  Tlie  weakness  of  the 
central  power  is  not  the  fruit  of  the  Federal 
system ;  it  is  its  root,  it  is  itself.  This  is 
the  reason  why  Ftates  wl  ich  are  perfectly 
independent  of  each  other,  adopt  the  Federal 
principle  solely  as  a  means  of  defence  against 
foreigners,  becausn  the  central  power  in  a 
confederation  cannot  be  other  than  weak. 
We  already  pos.ses8,  under  our  present  Con- 
Stituticn,  and  without  confederation,  a  central 
power  stronger  than  any  power  which  you 
can  create,  and  to  wliieli  we  submit  without 
complaint,  beeau.se  it  is  perfectly  compatible 
with  the    existence   ol'  our  local  powers — 1 


mean  the  power  of  England.  It  is  exercised 
by  men  who  live  too  far  from  us  to  hearken 
to  the  bickerings  ol  race  or  of  party,  or  to  be 
mixed  up  with  them  in  any  way.  But  if 
that  central  power  was  wielded  by  men  taken 
from  among  ourselves,  men  who  have  taken 
part  in  our  quarrels  and  animosiiies,  and  who 
would  make  use  of  it  to  give  effect  to  the 
views  of  their  party,  it  would  become  in- 
supportable. As  it  now  exists,  we  feel  it 
only  by  the  leueBts  it  confers.  Having 
thus  shown  the  serious  inconveniences 
innate  in  the  Federal  sy.^tem,  let  us  see 
whether  there  be  anything  exceptional  in  our 
position,  operating  in  our  favor,  and  allow- 
ing us  to  hope  for  immuniry  from  those  evils 
which  have  befallen  all  former  confederations. 
What  is  our  position  ?  In  what  respects  is 
it  more  favorable  than  that  of  other  confed- 
erations ?  Let  us  begin  with  Lower  Canada ; 
its  population  is  composed  of  about  three- 
fourth.^  French-Canadians,  and  of  one-fourth 
English-Canadians.  It  is  impossible,  even 
for  the  blindest  admirers  of  the  scheme  of 
Confederation,  to  shut  out  from  their  view 
this  great  difference  of  nationality,  which  is 
certaiuly  fated  to  play  an  important  part  in 
the  destinies  of  the  future  Confederation. 
When  Lord  DuRHAM  wrote  his  celebrated 
report  in  1839,  he  said,  when  speaking  of 
the  English-Canadians  of  Lower  Canada  : — 
"  The  English  population  will  never  submit 
to  the  authority  of  a  parliament  in  which 
the  French  have  a  majority,  or  even  the 
semblance  of  a  majority."  A  little  further 
on,  he  added: — "In  the  significant laugaage 
of  one  of  their  most  eminent  men,  they  assert 
that  Lower  Canada  mu^^t  become  English, 
even  if  to  effect  that  object  it  should  be 
necessary  that  the  province  should  cease  to 
belong  to  England."  Whatever  errors  Lord 
DuRllAM  may  have  fallen  into  in  judging 
the  French-Canadians,  he  certainly  cannot 
be  reproached  with  having  shewn  too  great 
severity  towards  the  English  Canadians.  He 
merely  depicted  their  sentiments,  as  they 
manifested  themselves  in  his  day.  Since 
then,  things  havo  undergone  a  change. 
And  last  autumn,  at  .Sherbrooke,  the  Hon- 
orable Minister  of  Finance  presented  to  us  a 
very  different  picture,  when  he  .said  ; — "  For 
five  and  twenty  years  harmony  has  reigned 
in  Lower  Canada,  and  the  Engli^sh  and 
Krcneh  populations  have  entered  into  a  coru- 
pact  to  labor  togetlier  to  promote  the  common 
interests  of  the  country."  This  picture  is 
a  true    one  at    the  present  time,  us  was  also 


351 


that  drawn  by  Lord  Durham  in  his  day ; 
things  have  changed  !  In  the  Parliament  of 
the  United  Canadas,  the  English  are  in  a 
majority ;  they  have  not  to  deal  with  a 
French  majority.  But,  if  circumstances 
have  altered,  men  have  not ;  place  them  in 
the  same  position  in  which  they  were  pre- 
vious to  1839,  and  again  you  will  perceive 
in  them  the  same  sentiments  as  were  depicted 
by  Lord  Durham.  The  seed  lies  hid  in  the 
soil,  it  does  not  shew  itself  on  the  surface ; 
but  a  few  drops  of  rain  are  all  that  is  neces- 
sary to  cause  it  to  spring  up.  If  such  senti- 
ments did  not  exist  between  the  two  naticn 
alities,  why  this  resolution,  to  be  submitted 
to  the  House  by  the  honorable  member  for 
Mi^sisquoi,  which  I  am  now  about  to  read  : — 

Resolved,  That  assuming  the  Federal  system  of 
government  to  he  a  political  necessity  in  a  union 
of  the  British  North  American  Provinces,  auy 
Confederation  of  those  provinces  which  ignores 
the  difference  of  race,  language  and  religion  of 
the  inhabitants  of  the  respective  states  or  territories 
sought  to  be  thus  united,  and  is  not  framed  with 
a  view  to  secure  to  the  inhabitants  of  such  slate  (^r 
territory  the  management  of  their  own  local  affairs, 
in  accordance  with  their  own  peculiar  views  and 
sentiments,  is  unwise  and  inexpedient,  and  not 
conducive  to  good  government  or  to  the  peace 
and  tranquillity  of  those  for  whom  it  is  framed  ; 

Resolved,  That  with  a  view  to  secure  to  that 
portion  of  the  inhabitants  cf  Lower  Canada 
speaking  the  English  language,  the  free  exercise 
and  enjoyment  of  their  own  ideas,  institutions 
and  rights,  in  any  proposed  Confederation  of  the 
provinces,  Canada  should  he  divided  into  three 
civil  divisions,  to  wit :  Western,  Central  and 
Eastern  Canada. 

At  the  mere  idea  of  a  legislature  in  which 
the  French  element  is  to  be  in  a  majority  iu 
Lower  Canada,  the  passions  deocribed  by 
Lord  Durham  are  evinced.  It  is  true  that 
the  Ministry  are  doing  their  best  to  reassure 
both  parties,  and  to  each  party,  separately, 
they  mahc  promises  at  the  expense  of  the 
other.  French-Canadians  I  do  not  allow 
yourselves  to  be  led  away  by  those  brilliant 
promises.  An  Italian  poet  describes  the 
endeavors  of  a  mother  to  induce  her  child  to 
swallow  a  draught,  which  is  intended  to  re- 
store him  to  health;  to  tempt  him,  she  covers 
the  edge  of  the  cup  with  honey  ;  in  like  man- 
ner, the  edge  of  the  cup  which  is  presented 
to  you  has  been  covered  with  honey,  but  in- 
stead of  containing  a  health-restori  ng  draught, 
that  cup  contains  poison  and  death.  I  do 
not  believe  that  the  French-Canadians  will 
abu.se  the  power  of  their  majority  in  Lower 
Ca^ada  by  striving  to  oppress  the  English- 
Canadians  ;  but  there  are  too  many  points 


on  which  they  disagree  to  allow  of  their 
living  long  in  peace  together,  in  spite  of 
their  sincere  wish  to  do  so,  under  the  sys- 
tem of  local  government  which  i.s  proposed 
to  us.  The  Honorable  Prime  Minister  said 
in  the  Council : — 

I  believe  the  French-Canadians  will  do  all  in 
their  power  to  render  justice  to  their  fellow-subjects 
of  Endish  origin  ;  and  it  should  not  be  forgotten 
that,  if  the  former  are  in  a  majority  in  Lower 
Canada,  the  English  will  he  in  a  majority  in  the 
General  Government,  and  that  no  act  of  real 
injustice  can  take  place  without  its  being  reversed 
by  the  Federal  Parliament, 

But  who  is  to  decide  whether  any  act  of  the 
French-Canadians  is  really  an  act  of  injus- 
tice ?  The  Federal  Parliament,  in  which 
the  English  element  will  be  all-powerful ! 
In  polilical  matters,  a  disinterested  opinion 
is  but  seldom  come  to ;  the  sympathies  of 
the  majority  iu  the  Federal  Parliament  will 
be  against  u? ;  I  see  in  this  the  prospect  of 
a  position  which  may  prove  to  be  a  most 
dangerous  one  for  us ;  if  the  strife  should 
commence,  no  one  can  tell  when  it  will  end. 

Dr.  BEAUBIEN— I  have  confidence  in 
the  conscience  of  the  Federal  l-'arliament. 
We  ought  not  to  attribute  evil  intenlions  to 
men,  but  rather  suppose  that  they  will  treat 
us  as  they  desire  to  be  treated  themselves, 
with  justice,  and  in  a  cinscieutious  manner. 

Mr.  JOLY — Despite  the  honorable  mem- 
ber's sermon — I  beg  his  pardon,  I  mean 
despite  the  honorable  member's  observation — 
I  am  of  opinion  that  we  ought  not  to  leave 
interes^ts  so  precious  as  those  which  are  con- 
fided to  us  to  the  mercy  of  men  with  whom 
we  are  not  always  certain  of  living  on  good 
terms,  without  any  other  guarantee  than 
their  conscience.  Confederation,  by  changing 
the  state  of  things  which  established  harmony 
between  the  English  and  French  races  in 
Lower  Canada,  will  destroy  that  harmony, 
and  the  consequences  may  be  only  too  easily 
foreseen.  In  Upper  Canada  there  is  much 
more  homogeneity,  and,  by  consequence,  the 
danger  of  intestine  trouble  there  is  much  less 
great;  true  it  is,  that  the  enormous  power  of 
the  Orangemen  and  the  law  respecting  sepa- 
rate schools  may  give  rise  to  difficulties,  but 
I  fear  more  for  the  relations  of  Upper  Ca-ada 
with  the  other  provinces,  and  especially  the 
Atlantic  Provinces.  LTpper  Canada  objects, 
in  general  terms,  to  the  construction  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railway.  Its  wish  is  to  see 
the  resources  of  the  future  Confederation 
applied  to  opening  up  the  immen  ie  territory 
of  the  North-West,  and  to  the  ealargement 


352 


of  its  canals.  The  Atlantic  Provinces  desire 
the  Intercolonial  Railway  ;  but  they  hold  in 
dread  the  expenditure  which  would  be  en- 
tailed by  the  opening  up  of  the  North-West 
territory  aud  the  enlargement  of  the  canals. 
Upper  Canada  already  fears  lest  the  Atlantic 
Provinces  should  unite  with  I  ower  C'aua<la 
against  her ;  the  French-Canadians  fear  for 
their  nationality,  threatened  by  the  English 
majoiity  from  the  other  provinces,  and  yet 
Cont'eddratiou  so  far  only  exists  as  a  scheme. 
If  our  reiations  with  the  other  provinces  are 
not  at  present  very  intimate,  at  least  there 
is  nothing  hostile  in  them.  We  regard  them 
with  interest  and  friendship  as  members  of 
one  aud  thi;  same  family  with  ourselves 
We  all  grow  together  under  the  ijhelter  of 
the  English  flag,  and  in  case  of  war  with  the 
United  States,  we  are  all  ready  to  unite  in 
our  efforts,  in  good  faith,  for  our  common  de- 
fence. But  when  the  different  provinces 
shall  meet  together  in  the  Federal  Parliament 
as  on  a  field  of  battle,  when  they  have  there 
contracted  the  habit  of  contending  with  each 
other  to  cause  their  own  interests,  60  various 
and  so  incompatible  with  each  other,  to 
prevail,  and  when,  from  repetition  of  this 
undying  strife,  jealousy  and  inevitable  hatred 
shall  have  resulted,  our  sentiments  towards 
the  other  provinces  will  be  no  longer  the 
same  ;  aud  should  any  great  danger,  in 
which  our  safety  would  depend  upon  our 
united  condition,  arise,  it  would  then  per- 
haps be  found  that  our  Federal  union  had 
been  the  signal  for  our  disunion.  In  such 
a  position  the  greatest  danger  would  result 
from  the  neighborhood  of  the  United  States, 
a  nation  which  for  a  long  time  has  looked  on 
our  provinces  with  a  covetous  eye,  aud 
which  has  an  immense  army  which  the  end 
of  the  war,  probably  not  far  distant,  will 
leave  without  occupation.  They  will  follow 
up  our  political  struggles  closely,  will  en- 
courage th  J  discontented,  and  will  soon  find 
an  opportunity  fir  interfering  in  our  internal 
affairs,  being  called  in  by  the  weaker  party; 
history  is  full  of  similar  occurrences.  The 
Attorney  General  for  Lower  ('anuda  pretends 
tliat,  the  opponents  of  Confe  ligation  desire 
annexation  to  the  United  States.  I  find  it 
difficult  to  believe  in  his  sincerity  when  he 
expresses  that  opinion  ;  it  is  usually  by  such 
arguments  as  this  that  he  repli(fs  to  hi» 
opponents  when  ho  has  no  other  answer  to 
]ni>.kv.  th-ni.  One  of  the  most  justly  respect- 
ed men  in  ijower  Canada,  u  man  who  enjoys 
universal   esteem,   Mr.  Cherrieu,  wh(»  had 


long  withdrawn  from  public  life,  determined, 
despite  his  repugnance  to  entering  the  listt», 
to  raise  his  voice  in  order  to  warn  his  fellow- 
countrymen  against  the  dangers  of  the  Con- 
federation project.  The  purity  of  his  motives 
could  not  be  questioned  ;  being  connected 
with  no  political  party,  he  was  perfectly 
disinterested  in  the  course  he  took.  It 
appears  to  me  that  the  opinion  of  such  ;i 
man  deserved  at  least  a  respectful  hearing. 
Instead  of  answering  his  argument,  the 
honorable  the  Attorney  General  attempted 
to  make  him  the  laughing  stock  of  this 
House.  The  (Jovernment  stifles  the  voice 
of  those  who  wish  to  enlighten  the  people; 
but  it  takes  upon  itself  the  task  of  enlight- 
ening them.  Here  is  a  work  "  in  favor  of 
Confederation,"  published  in  1865,  entitled  : 
fj  Union  des  Provlnc  s  de  I'  Amirique  Bri- 
taunique  du  N^rjrd,  par  (Hon.  J<n>»*ph  Cait- 
chon,  mem/ire  de  Par/emcnt  Canudieu,  tt 
Redacteur  en-chef  dn  Journni  de  Qu6bec  ; 
aud  also  author  of  a  work  published  in  1858, 
"  against  Coofederatini."  If  the  Govern- 
ment were  generous,  they  would  distribute 
the  work  of  1858  at  the  same  time  with  thtit 
of  1865,  in  order  to  afford  to  every  one  the 
advantage  of  a  choice,  more  partiuul  rly  as 
the  honorable  author  cannot  b'^  right  in  botli. 
in  bringing  these  two  works  into  contrast, 
[  do  not  wish  to  make  a  personal  attack  on 
the  honorable  member;  the  fact  that  he  first 
wrote  against  Confederation  and  then  in  favor 
of  it,  is  perfectly  foreign  to  the  debate.  I 
should  not  have  mentioned  the  matter,  were 
it  not  that  the  Government  make  us^e  of  the 
work  of  1865  (the  second)  in  order  to 
propagate  in  every  direction  their  doctrines 
on  Confederation  ;  they  are  distributing 
tfousands  of  copies  of  the  work  throughout 
Lower  Canada,  and  in  order  to  infl  lence  the 
Engli.«li-speaking  population,  they  are  having 
it  translated  int()  English,  [t  is,  therefore, 
right  to  warn  the  people  that  they  must 
distrust  the  arruments  contained  in  that 
book  ;  they  are  diatnetrieally  opposed  to  tho 
opinions  enunciated  by  thi'  author  in  bin 
work  of  185^,  in  which  he  says,  in  express 
ternjs,  that  tho  consequences  of  Confederation 
wouhl  be  the  ruin  of  Lower  Carnnia.  Of 
course  the  aiithor,  in  his  work  of  186"), 
attempts  to  explain  his  change  of  opinion  ; 
it  ih  none  the  less  true  that  he  was  wrong 
(iither  in  1858  or  else  in  1*^65 — which?  (t 
may  be  said  in  behalf  of  the  book  of  18<)5 
that  it  i:i  four  times  thicker  than  th«  other; 
this  perhaps  may  seem  a  disadvantage  to  the 


353 


miads  of  some  readers.  The  Government^ 
knowing  well  how  much  the  people  fear 
direct  taxes,  tell  them  that  Confederation 
involves  them  in  no  such  risk.  What  new 
method  are  they  going  to  invent  then  for 
raising  money  ?  It  is  perfectly  clear  that 
Confederation  will  largely  increase  our  ex- 
penditure. Then,  for  instance,  Canada, 
which  has  now  but  one  Government  to 
maintain  (and  it  is  as  much  as  she  can  do  to 
maintain  it),  will  have  three  to  maintain,  or 
nearly  so  ;  the  Government  of  Upper  Cana- 
da, the  Government  of  Lower  Canada,  and 
nine-twelfths  of  the  Federal  Government ; 
it  will  be  the  same  as  regards  the  legisla- 
tures. Canada,  with  a  population  forming 
nine-twelfths  of  the  Confederation,  will  have 
to  build  nine-twelfths  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  in  place  of  the  five-twelfths  she 
was  to  have  been  charged  with,  under  the 
arrangements  of  1863.  With  reference  to 
the  opening  of  the  all  but  boundless  territory 
of  the  North-West,  and  the  construction  of 
the  fortifications  which  are  spoken  of  only 
in  whispers  as  yet,  lest  we  should  become 
alarmed,  it  is  impossible  to  calculate  the 
expenditure  these  works  will  involve.  And, 
in  face  of  this  increased  expenditure,  our 
chief  source  of  revenue  is  to  be  considerably 
diminished.  I  refer  to  the  import  customs 
duties.  Here  is  the  justification  offered  by 
the  Minister  of  Finance  lor  the  reductien  :  — 

It  is  evident  since  the  Atlantic  Provinces  con- 
sume a  far  larger  quantity  of  articles  paying 
import  duties  than  we  do,  that  we  shall  be  com- 
pelled, in  order  to  assimilate  all  the  customs 
tariffs,  to  diminish  the  import  duties  we  pay  in 
Canada.  The  Atlantic  Provinces  cannot  adopt  a 
customs  tariff  so  high  as  ours. 

I  think  I  have  shown  that  our  expenditure 
must  infallibly  increase ;  and  as  our  revenue 
will  diminish,  to  what  new  tax  will  the  Go- 
vernment have  recourse  in  order  to  make  up 
the  deficit  ?  We  are  told  that  Lower  Canada 
will  have  a  revenue  of  nearly  a  million  and 
a  half  to  meet  her  local  expenditure ;  with 
what  shall  we  meet  our  proportion  of  the 
Federal  expenditure,  which  will  be  far  lar- 
ger ?  But  I  shall  now  deal  with  the  advan- 
tages which  we  are  told  must  certainly  result 
from  Confederation.  They  may  be  divided 
into  three  classes— political,  military  and 
commercial.  The  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency  tells  us  that  we  are  to  have 
the  advantage  of  a  seat  at  the  banquet 
of  nations.  The  perspective  is  a  highly 
flattering    one,   I   admit,  but  we   must    be 

46 


permitted  to  take  a  common-sense  view 
of  it.  The  Honorable  Minister  of  Fin- 
ance, faithful  to  the  doctrine  that  the  great- 
ness of  a  State  is  proportioned  to  the  great- 
ness of  its  debt,  announces  to  us  that  our 
credit  will  be  considerably  increased,  and 
that  we  shall  be  enabled  to  borrow  much 
more  extensively  than  we  have  hitherto  done, 
a  prospect  at  which  he  seems  greatly  to  re- 
joice. This  facility  of  borrowing  is  not 
always  an  unmixed  good ;  but  it  must  be 
remembered  that  our  credit  will  depend  en- 
tirely on  the  success  of  our  Confederation. 
If  it  should  not  succeed,  if  any  serious  dif- 
ficulty should  arise  within  it — a  thing  which 
is  possible  —  public  opinion  will  be  more 
prompt  to  take  alarm,  in  that  our  Federal 
form  of  government  does  not  afford  strong 
guarantees  for  the  maintenance  of  order  and 
peace,  and  our  credit  will  soon  be  worth 
less  than  the  credit  of  a  single  province  is 
worth  to-day.  The  Honorable  the  President 
of  the  Council  enumerated  all  our  provinces, 
comparing  one  after  another,  as  regards  su- 
perficial extent,  with  the  great  states  of  Eu- 
rope. He  finished  with  the  Hudson's  Bay 
territory,  stating  that  it  is  as  large  as  Euro- 
pean Russia  ;  but  will  it  ever  be  capable  of 
supporting,  like  European  Russia,  a  popula- 
tion of  sixty  millions,  and  feeding,  with  its 
surplus  corn,  a  great  part  of  Europe  ?  The 
vastuess  of  territory  in  which  the  honorable 
minister  takes  so  much  pride  is  precisely  what 
inspires  me  with  uneasiness  ;  we  shall  have 
the  outward  form  of  a  giant,  with  the  strength 
of  a  child  ;  we  shall  be  unable  to  stand  up. 
Hasty  and  premature  growth  is  as  fatal  to 
states  as  it  is  to  men ;  a  state  should  extend 
its  limits  only  in  proportion  as  its  strength  in- 
creases. The  Roman  Empire  did  not  attain 
in  a  day  its  colossal  proportions  ;  its  growth, 
like  that  of  the  oak,  was  slow  but  sure.  Let 
us  not  allow  ourselves  to  be  dazzled  by  the 


ambition   of  becoming  all  at  once  a 


great 


people ;  the  United  States  are  a  great  people, 
but  where  is  the  people,  however  small  it 
maybe,  that  now  envies  their  greatness  ?  Let 
us  be  content  with  our  lot ;  few  nations  have 
a  better  one.  The  territorial  formation  of 
the  future  Federation  will  al^o  be  an  insur- 
mountable obstacle  to  the  establishment  of  a 
strong  government ;  it  amounts  to  a  deform- 
ity. I  give  the  following  passage  in  support 
of  this  proposition  : — 

What  may  the  geographical  advantages  of  the 
Union  be  ?  We  speak  more  as  regards  the  future 
than  as  regards  the  present.    If  the  provinces  it 


354 


is  proposed  to  unite  were  grouped  in  a  compact 
mass  as  are  the  majority  of  the  states  of  the  Ameri- 
can Union,  it  their  geographical  position  were 
sucli  that  ihcy  needed  one  another  in  order  to 
prosper,  in  order  to  attain  an  outlet  on  the  sea, 
we  should  say — here,  at  all  events,  is  a  motive  for 
the  sacrifices  demanded  of  us.  But  no,  they  are 
scattered  over  the  surface  of  the  Gulf.  The 
nearest  to  Can.ida,  New  Brunswick,  is  connected 
with  us  solely  by  a  narrow  strip  of  territory  at 
most  but  a  few  leagues  in  width,  and  bordered 
throughout  by  the  menacing  frontier  of  the  Amer- 
ican Union.  And  even  at  this  moment,  pending 
the  carrying  out  of  the  works  of  improvement  we 
have  just  referred  to,  the  shortest  route  from  the 
provinces  to  Canada  is  by  way  of  the  United 
States.  While  the  union  of  the  Canadas  was 
odious  in  its  formula,  it  was  at  all  events  justifi- 
able in  a  geographical  point  of  view ;  Upper 
Canada  required  the  use  of  the  St.  Lawrence  in 
order  to  reach  the  sea,  and  the  two  provinces 
together  form  a  compact  body,  a  fact  which  is  the 
strongest  possible  condemnation  of  the  Constitu- 
tional Act  of  1791,  and  on  which  they  were  sepa- 
rated. 

If  the  readers  of  the  work  published  by 
the  Hon.  Mr.  CAUcnoN,ia  1865,  in  favor  of 
Confederation,  desire  to  know  where  I  found 
that  passage,  I  answer,  in  the  work  pub- 
lished by  the  Hon.  Mr.  Cauohon,  in  1858. 
It  is  probably  the  portion  of  the  honorable 
gentleman's  work  of  1858,  which  he  will  find 
it  most  difficult  to  get  over.  lie  may,  indeed, 
allege  in  explanationof  his  change  of  opinion 
on  other  points,  that  the  political  position  is 
altered,  that  our  relations  with  the  provinces 
and  our  neighbors  of  the  United  States  arc  no 
longer  the  same;  but  I  apprehend  he  will  hard- 
ly go  the  length  of  asserting  that  the  geograph- 
ical configuration  of  the  country  is  changed. 
He  will  perhaps  endeavor  to  show  that  the 
Intercolonial  Kailway,  the  construction  of 
which  forms  part  of  the  plan  of  Confeder- 
ation, will  obviate  the  defects  of  our  geograph- 
ical position ;  but  I  would  remind  him  that 
in  1858,  when  he  wrote  his  first  work,  the 
building  of  the  Intercolonial  Kailway  was 
proposed  as  it  is  propo.scd  now ;  this  will  ap- 
pear from  the  passage  I  have  just  quoted  : 
"  And  at  this  moment,  pending  the  carrying 
out  of  the  improvements  we  have  just  re- 
ferred to,  the  shortest  way  to  come  froni  the 
provinces  to  un  is  by  way  of  the  United 
States."  Mr.  Speaker,  with  the  best  possi- 
ble desire  to  assist  the  honorable  gcntloman, 
I  find  it  utterly  impossible  to  extricate  him 
from  his  unfortunate  position,  and  T  hIkiII  not 
make  the  attempt.  The  Hon.  Attorney  (Jimi- 
eral  promises  us  that  Lower  Can;ida  will  bo 
the  sun  of  the  Confederation.  Since  we  can- 
not find  a  compariuon  on  this  poor  earth  em- 


blematic of  our  future  greatness,  let  us  bor- 
row one  from  the  heavens  at  the  risk  of  losing 
ourselves  in  the  clouds  with  the  advocates  of 
Confederation  ;  I  propose  the  adoption  of  the 
rainbow  as  our  emblem.  By  the  endless  va- 
riety of  its  tints  the  rainbow  will  give  an  ex- 
cellent idea  of  the  diversity  of  races,  religions, 
sentiments  and  interests  of  the  different  parts 
of  the  Confederation.  By  its  slender  and 
elongated  form,  the  rainbow  would  afford  a 
perfect  representation  of  the  geographical  con- 
figuration of  the  Confederation.  By  its  lack 
of  consistence — an  image  without  substance 
— the  rainbow  would  represent  aptly  the  sol- 
idity of  our  Confederation.  An  emblem  we 
must  have,  for  every  great  empire  has  one ; 
let  us  adopt  the  rainbow.  Mr.  Speaker,  the 
fact  of  our  provinces  being  all  at  once  erected 
into  a  Confederation  will  not  give  us  a  single 
additional  man ;  battalions  cannot  be  made 
to  spring  forth  from  the  earth,  armed  from 
head  to  toot,  by  a  stamp  of  the  foot  as  in  the 
mythological  ages.  The  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral for  Lower  Canada  has  developed  a  plan 
of  strategy  which  I  take  the  liberty  of  seri- 
ously recommending  to  the  Commander-in- 
Chief.  The  honorable  gentleman  sums  up  in 
the  following  terms  the  advantages  of  the 
Confederation  in  a  military  point  of  view  : 
"  When  we  shall  be  united,  the  enemy  will 
know  that  if  he  attacks  any  part  of  our  provin- 
ces, the  Island  of  Prince  Edward  or  Canada,  he 
will  have  to  meet  the  combined  forces  of  the 
Empire.'  There  was  no  need  of  the  Confed- 
eration to  convince  our  neighbors  of  that ; 
they  are,  as  a  general  rule,  sufficiently  sharp- 
witted  to  discover,  without  being  told  it,  that 
if  they  content  themselves  with  attacking  u.s 
at  a  single  point  at  a  time,  of  course  they  will 
have  to  meet  all  our  strength.  Would  it  not 
be  well  to  enter  into  a  contract,  bindintr  them 
to  attack  us  at  a  single  point  only  at  one  time 
— say  Quebec?  We  might,  in  fact,  give  them 
the  free  use  of  the  Grand  Trunk  Kailway  to 
bring  their  troops  to  Point  L6vis.  Of  what 
benefit  to  the  United  States  would  be  their 
vast  armies,  their  great  fleets,  their  abundant 
means  of  transport  in  every  direction,  if  they 
were  to  attack  us  only  at  one  point  at  u  time, 
as  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  seems  to  hope  ? 
In  the  war  of  1S12,  they  attacked  us  simul- 
taneously at  difl'ereut  polnt.s,  though  their 
troops  were  far  less  numerous  in  proportion 
to  ours  than  they  would  now  be  in  case  ol" 
war,  and  though  their  nii'ruis  of  transport 
were  then  far  inferior  to  what  tlu«y  now  are. 
Mewfoundland,  Prince  Edward  Island,  Nova 
Scotia,  New   Brunswick    and    Canada,   would 


S55 


be  attacked  simultaneously,  and  each  province 
at  different  points.  The  provinces  will  help 
one  another  sufficiently  if  each  of  them  can 
maintain  the  integrity  of  its  own  territory, 
so  that  the  enemy  may  not  be  enabled  to  take 
the  adjoining  province  in  flank ;  in  the  same 
way  that  a  soldier  in  line  of  battle  assists  his 
comrade  at  his  side  by  simply  keeping  his 
own  place  in  the  ranks.  We  do  not  need 
Confederation  to  give  us  that  unity  which 
is  indispensable  in  all  military  operations — 
unity  of  headship.  A  commander-in-chief 
will  direct  the  defence  of  all  our  provinces ; 
he  will  forward  troops,  and,  if  he  can,  vessels 
of  war,  to  the  points  most  seriously  threat- 
ened, and  will  assist  each  pi'ovince  to  de- 
fend the  post  which  Providence  has  al- 
ready assigned  to  each  in  our  long  line  of 
battle.  Moreover,  in  the  event  of  war  with 
the  United  States,  if  we  were  to  trust  to  num- 
bers we  should  be  sadly  disappointed.  What 
we  need  above  all  is  enthusiasm ;  our  citizen 
soldiers  must  be  convinced  that  they  are  risk- 
ing their  lives  for  something  worth  while  ; 
that  they  are  happier  in  being  under  the  flag 
of  England  than  they  could  be  under  that  of 
the  United  States,  and  that  they  must  lose  by 
an  exchange.  In  the  present  position  of  the 
United  States  it  is  not  difficult  to  make  them 
understand  that ;  the  taxes  alone  with  which 
the  Americans  are  now  crushed  down,  and  of 
which  the  vast  volume  is  growing  from  day 
to  day,  suffice  to  shew,  at  a  first  glance,  how 
far  our  position  is  superior  to  theirs  in  a  ma- 
terial point  of  view.  But  if,  in  order  to  meet 
the  extravagant  expenditure  the  Confedera- 
tion must  bring  with  it,  the  people  find  them- 
selves taxed  beyond  their  resources,  the  Gov- 
ernment need  not  be  surprised,  if  they  Should 
ever  appeal  to  the  courage  of  the  people  and 
call  upon  them  to  meet  the  enemy,  to  receive 
the  answer  the  old  man  got  from  his  donkey 
in  Lafontaine's  fable.  When,  at  the  ap- 
proach of  the  enemy,  the  old  man  wished  to 
mount  and  fly,  the  donkey  refused  to  bear 
him,  and  commenced  the  following  dialogue 
with  his  master  : — 

Me  fera-t-on  porter  double  bat,  double  charge  ? 
Non  pas,  dit  le  vieillard,  quiprit  d'abord  le  large. 
Et  que  m'importe  done,  dit  Tane,  a  qui  je  sois? 
Sauvez-vous,  et  me  laissez  paitre. 
Notre  ennemi,  c'est  notre  maitre, 
Je  vous  le  dis  en  bon  fran^oia.* 

*  •'  On  me  double  burthen  do  y  ou  think  they  will  lay  ?" 
"  Not  so,"  said  the  old  man,  ere  ho  toddled  away, 
"  Then,  what  odds,"  cried  the  donkey,  '<  to  whom  I 
belong  ? 

You  may  take  to  your  heels  and  leave  me  to  feed. 

The  donkey's  real  en,emy  is  bis  own  master's  greed, 
And  I  tiuBt  you'll  admit  ^]\&i  tbe  argument's  etrong," 


Lafontaine,  it  will  be  seen,  found  means,  two 
hundred  years  ago,  of  saying  serious  tilings  in 
a  laughing  way.  If  the  Government  treat 
the  people  as  a  beast  of  burthen,  to  be  piti- 
lessly overladen,  the  people  will  one  day  make 
them  the  same  answer  that  the  donkey  made 
to  his  master,  in  Lafontaine's  fable.  Lord 
Bacon,  in  his  essays,  expresses  the  same 
thought  in  more  serious  terms.  But  apart 
from  purely  material  interests,  which  are 
nevertheless  highly  important,  for  happiness 
and  poverty  rarely  go  hand  in  hand,  there  are 
other  interests  of  a  higher  order  which  rouse 
the  courage  of  a  people  and  sometimes  render 
it  capable  of  sustaining  the  most  unequal 
struggles.  Deprive  the  French  Canadians  of 
their  nationality,  and  you  deprive  them  of  the 
enthusiasm  which  would  have  doubled  their 
strength.  I  concur  with  the  Government  in 
their  desire  to  form  more  intimate  commercial 
relations  between  the  different  provinces  ;  but 
when  it  is  attempted  to  use  the  immense  ad- 
vantages which  would  result  from  these  rela- 
tions as  an  overwhelming  argument  in  favor 
of  Confederation,  it  is  as  well  to  form  a  proper 
appreciation  of  those  advantages,  and  see 
whether  we  cannot  secure  them  without  Con- 
federation. The  Gulf  Provinces  possess  tim- 
ber, coal  and  fisheries ;  our  own  two  great 
articles  of  export  are  timber  and  wheat. 
With  regard  to  timber,  the  Gulf  Prov- 
inces have  no  more  need  of  ours  than  we 
of  theirs.  As  to  coal  we  import  from  Eng- 
land what  we  need  for  our  present  wants,  in 
ballast,  on  board  the  numerous  ships  which 
come  here  for  our  timber,  and  we  thus  get  it 
cheaper  than  we  could  import  it  from  the 
Gulf  Provinces.  When  this  supply  becomes 
insufficient  to  meet  our  growing  wants,  it  will 
be  necessary  to  look  somewhere  for  a  supply 
of  coal.  If  the  Lower  Provinces  can  furnish 
it  to  us  at  cheaper  rates  than  we  can  get  it  in 
the  United  States,  we  shall  buy  it  from  them. 
Upper  Canada  will  probably  get  its  coal  from 
the  Pennsylvania  mines,  which  are  in  direct 
communication  with  Lake  Erie,  on  the  north 
shore  of  which  the  richest  and  most  thickly 
settled  portion  of  Upper  Canada  is  situated. 
As  regards  fisheries,  Canada  has  a  stock  of 
fish  in  its  waters  sufficient  not  only  to  supply 
all  its  own  requirements,  but  to  enable  it  to 
export  largely  from  Gasp6  to  Europe.  Now 
as  to  wheat.  The  Honorable  President  of  the 
Council  told  us  that  in  a  single  year  the  At- 
lantic Provinces  paid  S4,440,000  to  the  Uni- 
ted States  for  flour,  and  that  a  portion  of  that 
flour  came  from  Upper  Canada ;  and  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  asks  why  ehould  not  we 


356 


ourselves  sell  our  flour  to  the  Lower  Provin- 
ces ?  For  the  simple  reason  that,  instead  of 
having  to  pay  four  millions  four  hundred  and 
forty-seven  thousand  dollars  to  the  United 
States,  they  would  have  to  pay  us  five  millions 
of  dollars,  and  they  would  therefore  refuse  to 
buy  from  us.  There  is  no  such  thing  as  sen- 
timent in  matters  of  businesg ;  men  buy  in  the 
cheapest  market.  The  Gulf  Provinces  will 
buy  their  flour  from  the  United  States  bo  long 
as  they  can  obtain  it  at  a  lower  price  there 
than  in  Canada ;  and  the  fact  that  they  do 
obtain  it  cheaper  from  the  United  States  is 
clearly  demonstrated  by  their  buying  from 
the  Americans  and  not  from  us.  But  a  single 
glance  at  the  map  will  account  for  the  difi'er- 
ence  in  price.  I  do  not  believe  that  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway  can  be  advantageously 
employed  for  the  transport  of  flour  from  Eivi^re 
du  Loup  to  Halifax ;  the  cost  of  transport 
over  five  hundred  miles  of  railway  would  be 
too  great ;  the  water  route  must  therefore  be 
adopted.  Kingston  and  Halifax  are  in  the 
same  latitude,  between  the  44th  and  45th 
parallel.  From  Kingston  the  St.  Lawrence 
flows  undeviatingly  towards  the  north-east, 
and  falls  into  the  Gulf  in  the  50th  degree  of 
north  latitude.  From  that  point,  in  order  to 
reach  the  Gut  of  Canso,  you  must  not  only 
make  five  degrees  of  southing,  but  also  make 
nearly  three  degrees  of  longitude  to  the  east, 
and  then  nearly  three  more  towards  the  west 
before  reaching  Halifax.  Moreover,  the  navi- 
gation is  more  or  less  dangerous  tliroughout. 
When  you  compare  this  circuitous  route  with 
the  far  more  direct  one  of  the  United  States, 
it  is  quite  easy  to  understand  why  the  United 
States  can  sell  even  our  wheat  to  the  Gulf 
Provinces  at  lower  prices  than  we  ourselves 
are  able  to  do.  I  have  attempted  to  reduce 
the  commercial  advantages  wc  are  promised  to 
their  proper  proportion.  1  will  now  endeavor 
to  show  that  we  can  secure  every  one  of  these 
advantages  without  the  Confederation.  I 
shall  cite,  for  that  purpose,  the  very  words  of 
the  Honorable  jMiuister  of  Finance  : — 

If  we  look  at  the  reaultBof  the  free  interchange 
oi'j)roduco  between  Canada  an<l  the  United  States, 
we  sball  find  that  our  tiadu  with  tiieni  increased, 
in  ten  years,  from  les-s  than  twoinilliijns  to  twenty 
millions  of  dollars.  If  free  trade  Iia8  produced 
Huch  results  in  that  case,  what  u;ay  we  not  expect 
when  the  artificial  obstacles  which  hamper  free 
trade  between  us  and  the  provinces  of  the  Gulf 
shall  have  di.sapiieared  ? 

liut  this  fine  result  was  not  obtained  by 
nieans  of  a  Confederation  with  tho  United 
States.     What  hinders  us  from   having  I'rco 


trade  with  the  Gulf  Provinces?  In  support 
of  this  view,  I  shall  quote  the  work  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency,  not  that 
of  1858,  but  that  of  1865,  written  in  favor  of 
Confederation,  pages  32  and  33,  where  he 
shews  in  the  most  conclusive  manner  that  we 
have  no  need  of  Confederation  to  improve  our 
commercial  relations  with  the  Gulf  Provinces. 
It  is  under  this  head  of  commercial  advan- 
tages that  the  Intercolonial  Railway  fitly 
comes  in.  The  Honorable  President  of  the 
Council  tells  us  that  he  is  favorable  to  Con- 
federation, because  it  will  give  us  a  seaport  at 
all  seasons  of  the  year — a  most  powerful 
argument,  he  adds,  in  its  favor.  "\Vc  stand 
in  great  need  of  a  seaport  in  the  wint<^r 
season,  more  especially  if  the  United  States 
abolish  tho  right  of  tran.«it.  Absolutely, 
without  reference  to  that,  we  require  it  in 
order  to  perfect  our  system  of  defence.  But  is 
Confederation  necessary  in  order  that  we  may 
build  the  Intercolonial  Railway  ?  Certainly 
not.  The  hon.  minister,  in  the  same  speech, 
gives  an  answer  to  the  representatives  from 
Upper  Canada  complaining  that  the  Interco- 
lonial Railway  is  to  be  built  before  any  scheme 
is  entertained  for  opening  up  the  North-West 
Territory, — "  The  reason  is  that  the  neces- 
sary means  of  constructing  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  are  already  secured  to  us  by  the 
guarantee  of  the  Imperial  Government,  which 
will  enable  us  to  obtain  money  at  a  very  ad- 
vantageous rate  of  interest."  These  means 
were  secured  to  us  a  long  time  since,  long 
before  the  question  of  Confederation  was 
agitated.  I  see  also  in  a  report  laid  before  tho 
House  in  a  return  to  an  address  moved  for 
last  year  by  the  Honorable  Minister  of  Agri- 
culture, that  a«  soon  as  it  became  known  in 
England  that  Mr.  Fleming  had  been  ap- 
pointed to  report  upon  a  plan  for  the  Interco- 
lonial Railway,  two  ofters  were  at  once  made 
for  the  building  of  it,  uncalled  for  by  us. 
One  is  contained  in  Mr.  C.  D.  AucilinALD's 
letter  of  27th  August,  18G3,  and  tlio  other 
in  that  of  Mr.  C.  J.  BRYiXiES  of  4th  March, 
lSl)4.  Our  credit  is  good  enough  to  procure 
us  tho  means  of  building  the  railway  with- 
out having  recourse  to  Confederation.  To 
sum  up  all  in  few  words  :  all  tho  advautugcrt 
arc  negative,  that  is  to  ^ay,  Confederation  will 
do  no  harm  to  our  interests,  military  or  com- 
mercial, but  neither  do  they  rcijuire  it.  As  to 
the  inconveniences  of  which  it  may  bo  pro- 
ductive, 1  leave  them  to  tho  judgment  of  the 
House,  who  will  decide  whether  they  are  po.si- 
tive.  lamaskod:  "Ifyou  willhave  notliiugto 
do  with  Confederation,  what  will  you  hitve?" 


357 


I  answer,  we  would  remain  as  we  are.  That,  I 
am  told,  is  impossible,  in  our  present  position 
with  respect  to  Upper  Canada.     The   Hon. 
Premier,  in  introducing  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation to  the  Legislature,  said, — "  At  the 
time  these  measures  were  resolved  upon,  the 
country  was  bordering  on  civil  strife,  and  he 
would  ask  if  it  was  not  the  duty  of  both  sides 
to  do  all  they  could  to  prevent  the  unfortunate 
results  which  would  have  followed."     All  the 
ministers  following  him,  used  expressions  of 
the  same    tenor,  nothing   caring  for  the  in- 
calculable wrong  which  they  were  doing  to  the 
country,  they  whose  duty  it  was  to  watch  for 
the  preservation   of  its  good  name,  and  the 
safety  of  its  interests.   How  will  the  world  be 
astonished,  who  look  upon  Canada  as  one  of 
the  most  favored  countries  on  earth,  in  which 
the  people  enjoy  more  liberty  and  more  perfect 
tranquillity  than  is  to  be  found  in   any   other 
— how  will  they  be  astonished  to  hear  that  we 
are    "  a  country  bordering  on  civil  strife?" 
How  wUl  such  tidings  affect  our  credit  ?    The 
world  will  not  understand  the  motives  of  our 
ministers  in   painting   the   condition   of  our 
country    in    such    gloomy    colors.      It    will 
not  be  aware  that  they  must  have  Confeder- 
ation to  keep  their  places,  and  that  this  threat 
of  war  is  uttered  for  the  nonce  as  an  unanswer- 
able argument  to  force  us  to  accept  it.  What 
a  discrepancy  there  is  between  this  declai-ation 
of  the  Ministry  that   we  are  "bordering  on 
civil  strife,"  and  the  opening  of  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne,  which  expresses  "  thankful- 
ness to  a  beneficent  Providence  for  the  gen- 
eral contentment  of  the   people  of  this  pro- 
vince," or  the  address  voted  by  the  Legisla- 
ture in  answer  to  the  Speech  from  the  Throne, 
which  is  the  faithful  echo  of    this  grateful 
sentiment !     What  would  the  members  of  the 
Ministry  have  said,  if  a  member  had  risen  to 
move  iiu  amendment  to  the   Address  in   the 
words  made  use  of  by   the  Hon.   Premier, 
"  That    the    country   is   bordering  on   civil 
strife,  and    that   therefore    the  House    can- 
not admit  that  there  is  general  contentment 
among  the  people?"     It  is  on  reasons  widely 
differing  from  these  that  the  Speech  from  the 
Throne   takes  ground  in   recommending  the 
adoption  of  the   scheme    of    Confederation. 
But  are  we  really  bordering  on  civil  strife  ? 
Of  course  it  is  representation  based  on  popu- 
lation which  is  the  exciting  cause.     Do  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada  demand  representa- 
tion based  on  population  as  a  condition  sine 
qua  lion  of  the  continuation  of  our  peaceful 
relations  with  them  ?     Has  this  desire  to  ob- 
tain representation  based  on  population  taken 


such  deep  root  in  the  bosom  of  Upper  Canada, 
that  it  is  ready  to  plunge  us  and  itself  into 
the  horrors  of  civil  war  in  order  to  achieve 
it  ?     Or  is  not  representation  by  population 
rather  one  of  those  political  clap-traps  which 
ambitious  men,  who  can  catch  them  no  other 
way,  set   to  catch   the  heedless  multitude? 
We,  Lower  Canadians,  who  at  this  distance 
cannot  judge    of    the    sentiments   of  Upper 
Canadians  by  our  own  observation,  must  de- 
pend for  the  formation  of  our  opinions  re- 
specting them  on  the  Upper  Canada    news- 
papers, and  on  the  speeches  of  their  members 
in  this  House.     They  are  the  only  sources  of 
information  whieh  we  possess.     Well,  in  1862, 
we  saw  the  Upper  Canada  leaders,  except  the 
President  of  the  Council,  who  was  wise  enough 
to  keep  aloof,  who  are  at  the  same  time  con- 
nected with  the  principal  newspapers  there, 
either  as  proprietors,  editors  or  co-editors,  ac- 
cept office   under  the   Macdonald-Sicotte 
Government,   the    fundamental    principle  of 
which  was  equal  representation  of  the  two 
sections,  a  principle  which  entitled  it  to  the 
cordial  support  of  Lower   Canada.      These 
gentlemen  we  saw  reelected,  notwithstanding 
their  abandonment  of  their  principles,  and  we 
found  them  voting  against  representation  by 
population.     From  this  I  conclude  that  Up- 
per Canada  is  much  more  indifferent,  and  its 
leaders  much  less  sincere  touching  this  ques- 
tion of  the  representation,    than  they  would 
have  us  believe.     Were  it  otherwise.  Upper 
Canada  would  have  taken  the   opportunity, 
afforded  by  the  election,  of  punishing  the  men 
who  had  betrayed  her.     But  who  are  those  two 
men  who  now  pitch  their  voices  in  harmony 
(formerly  so  discordant)  to  predict  civil  war, 
if  we  do  not  vote  for  Confederation  ?     They 
are  the  Attorney  General  for  Lower  Canada, 
and  the  President  of  the  Council  (Hon.  Messrs. 
Cartier  and  Brown  I) — the  one  demanding 
representation  by  population,  the  other  refus- 
ing it :  both  took  their  stand  as  the  champions 
of  their  sections,  and  became  their  chieftains 
respectively.     When  they  found  out  that  that 
game  was  unprofitable  to  both,   as  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council  seemed  to  be  excluded  for 
ever  from  the  ministerial  benches,    and  the 
Attorney  General  could  not  maintain  himself 
in  his  position  on  them,  the  Attorney  General 
gave  way :   he  agreed   to   representation   by 
population,  trying  to  disguise   it  under   the 
name  of  Confederation;  and  to  reward  him 
for  this  complaisance,    the    President  of  the 
Council  saved  him — him  and  his  colleagues — 
and  condescended  to  take  a  seat  among  them. 
They  hold  over  us  a  threat  of  civil  wax  to 


358 


force  us  to  ratify  their  bargain.  There  is 
only  one  man  in  Canada  who  could  have  done 
what  the  Attorney  General  for  Lower  Canada 
has  done,  and  that  man  is  himself.  Thanks 
to  his  energy,  to  his  intimate  acquaintance 
with  the  strong  and  the  weak  points  of  his 
fellow-countrymen,  the  Attorney  General  for 
Lower  Canada  has  succeeded  in  attaining  an 
elevation  which  no  one  can  dispute  with  him 
— that  of  chief  of  the  French  Canadian  na- 
tionality. To  attain  this  eminence,  he  has 
crushed  the  weak,  cajoled  the  strong,  deceived 
the  credulous,  bought  up  the  venal,  and  exalt- 
ed the  ambitious ;  by  turns  he  has  called  in 
the  accents  of  religion  and  stimulated  the 
clamour  of  interest — ho  has  gained  his  end. 
When  Lower  Canada  heard  of  his  alliance 
with  the  President  of  the  Council,  there  arose 
from  all  quarters  one  universal  cry  of  indig- 
nation. He  managed  to  convert  the  cry  of 
anger  into  a  shout  of  admiration.  When  hia 
scheme  of  Confederation  became  public,  a 
feeling  of  uneasiness  pervaded  all  minds; 
that  instinct  forewarned  them  of  the  danger 
which  impended.  He  has  hushed  that  feel- 
ing to  a  sleep  of  profound  security.  I  shall 
compare  him  to  a  man  who  has  gained  the 
unbounded  confidence  of  the  public,  who  takes 
advantage  of  it  to  set  up  a  Savings  Bank,  in 
which  the  rich  man  deposits  his  wealth,  and 
the  day  laborer  the  small  amount  which  he 
has  squeezed  out  of  his  wages,  against  a  day 
of  need — both  without  a  voucher.  When  that 
man  has  gathered  all  into  his  strong  box,  he 
finds  an  opportunity  to  purchase,  at  the  cost 
of  all  he  holds  in  trust,  the  article  on  which 
he  has  long  set  his  ambitious  eye  ;  and  he  buys 
it,  unhesitatingly,  without  a  thought  of  the 
wretches  who  are  doomed  to  ruin  by  his  con- 
duct. The  deposit  committed  to  the  keeping 
of  the  Attorney  General  is  the  fortune  of  the 
French-Canadians — their  nationality.  That 
fortune  had  not  been  made  in  a  day  ;  it  was 
the  accumulation  of  the  toil  and  the  savings 
of  a  whole  people  in  a  whole  century.  To 
prolong  the  ephemeral  existence  of  his  admin- 
istration for  a  few  months,  the  Attorney  Gen- 
eral has  sacrificed,  without  a  scruple,  this 
precious  trust,  which  the  unbounded  con- 
fidence of  his  I'ellow-countrymcn  had  confided 
to  his  keeping. 

JIoN.  Mr.  CARTIEK— And  what  have  I 
received  in  payment  for  that  ? 

Mil.  JOLY — A  salary  of  five  thousand  dol- 
lars per  annum,  and  the  honor  of  the  position. 

Hon.  .Mr.  CARTIEll— That  is  not  enough 
for  me. 

Mb.  JOLY — I  am  well  aware  of  it  j    that 


is  why  the  honorable  member  is  desirous  of 
extending  the  circle  of  his  operations.     But 
he  will  not  long  enjoy  the  fruits  of  his  trea- 
son ;  by  crushing  the  power  of  the  French- 
Canadians  he  has  crushed  his  own,  for  upon 
them  liis  existence  depends.     Does  he  believe 
in  the  sincerity  of  the  friendship  of  the  Liber- 
als of  Upper  Canada  ?  They  fought  with  him 
for  too  long  a  time  to  allow  of  the  existence 
of  any  sympathy  between  them  and  him,  and 
now  he  has  lost  even  their  respect.      They 
con.sented   to   ally   themselves   with   him    in 
order  to  obtain  their  object — representation 
by  population ;     but  when   they   no   longer 
stand  in  need  of  him,  they  will  throw  him 
aside  like  a  worn-out  tool.     I  look  upon  this 
threat  of  civil   war   as   resembling   a  farce 
played  by  two  comrades ;  they  shout  out  to 
us,   **  Take  care,  we  are  going  to  fight;    we 
shall  do  some  mischief  if  you  don't  hold  us." 
Do  not  put  yourselves  out  of  the  way  to  stop 
them ;  you  need  not  be  alarmed,  they  will  not 
fight.     It  is  also  said  to  us,  "  See  how  many 
changes  of  Ministry  there  have  been   since 
1862;    can  such  a  state  of  afi"airs  continue 
any  longer  ?"  I  am  free  to  admit  that  all  thoso 
changes  must  have  been  very  unpleasant  for 
the  diflFerent  ministers  who  have  succumbed 
under  them,  but   has   the   country   suflfered 
much  by  them  ?  The  condition  of  the  finances 
of  a  nation  is  the  touchstone  of  its  prosperity. 
In  1862,  the  3Iinistcr  of  Finance,  before  re- 
signing, declared  a  deficit  of  five  millions  one 
hundred  and  fifty-two  thousand  dollars  (page 
20  of  his  speech)  ;  for  the  year  ending  the  30th 
June  last,  there  was  a  surplus  of  seven  hun- 
dred and  fifty  thousand  dollars.     If  all  these 
changes  of  ministries  had  not  taken  place,  it 
is  impossible    to   say    how  large    the  deficit 
would  have  become  by  this  time,  as  for  sever- 
al  years  previous  to   1862  it  had  gone  on 
steadily  increasing.      These  two  reasons  ad- 
vanced by  ministers  are  merely  intended  as 
a  veil  to  conceal  the  true  motive  fur  this  com- 
plete revolution    in    our    Constitution ;    that 
true  motive  is  simply  a  desire  on  their  parts 
to  remain  in  power.      \Vithout  wishing    to 
enter  into  all  the  details  of  the  measure  pro- 
posed to  the  House,  which  have  been  so  ably 
handled  by  the  honorable  member  for  Hochc- 
laga,    more  especially   those    relating   to    the 
Legislative  Council,  there  arc  some  which  I 
cannot  pass  over  in  silence.     The   following 
are  the   paragraphs  of  the  resolutions  of  the 
Quebec  Conlereuco  which  regulate  the  organi- 
zation of  the   Lower  House  of  the   Federal 
Ijcgislaturo,  principally  iu  respect  of  the  num- 
ber of  rcpreBentatives : — 


359 


17.  The  basis  of  representation  in  tbe  House 
of  Commons  shall  be  j^opulation,  as  determined 
by  the  official  census  every  ten  years ,  and  the 
number  of  members  at  first  shall  be  It)4,  dis- 
tributed as  follows : 

Upper  Canada 82 

Lower  Canada 65 

Nova  Scotia 19 

Ne  w  Brunswick 15 

Newfoundland 8 

Prince  Edward  Island 5 

18.  Until  the  official  census  of  1871  has  been 
made  up,  there  shall  be  no  change  in  the  number 
of  representatives  from  the  several  sections. 

19.  Immediately  after  the  completion  of  the 
census  of  1871,  and  immediately  after  every 
decennial  census  thereafter,  the  representation 
from  each  section  in  the  House  of  Commons 
shall  be  readjusted  on  the  basis  of  population. 

20.  For  the  purpose  of  such  readjustments, 
Lower  Canada  shall  always  be  assigned  sixty-five 
members,  and  each  of  the  other  sections  shall  at 
each  readjustment  receive,  for  the  ten  years  then 
next  succeeding,  the  number  of  members  to  which 
it  will  be  entitled  on  the  same  ratio  of  represen- 
tation to  population  as  Lower  Canada  will  enjoy 
according  to  the  census  last  taken  by  having 
sixty-five  members. 

21.  No  reduction  shall  be  made  in  the  number 
of  members  returned  by  any  section,  unless  its 
population  shall  have  decreased,  relatively  to  the 
population  of  the  whole  L^nion,  to  the  extent  of 
five  per  centum. 

22.  In  computing  at  each  decennial  period  the 
number  of  members  to  which  each  section  is  en- 
titled, no  fractional  parts  shall  be  considered, 
unless  when  exceeding  one-half  the  number  en- 
titling to  a  member,  in  which  case  a  member 
shall  be  given  for  each  such  fractional  part. 

I  object  to  the  21st  clause,  because  it  contains 
provisions  whicli  are  unjust  to  Lower  Canada. 
Tlie  full  scope  of  that  clause  is  not  generally 
understood ;  that  proportion  of  five  per  cent, 
appears  to  be  a  very  small  affair,  and  yet, 
under  certain  circumstances,  it  might  produce 
considerable  results,  which  are  not  taken  into 
consideration  in  the  explanations  given  on  that 
subject  in  the  work  written  by  the  Honorable 
Mr.  Cauchon,  which  the  Government  has 
caused  to  be  distributed  (pages  72  to  87). 
It  is  dif&cult  to  foretell  what  the  exact  numer- 
ical increase  of  the  several  provinces  will  be 
from  the  present  time  to  the  next  census  in 
1871.  The  Honorable  Mr.  Cauchon  assumes, 
as  the  basis  of  his  calculations,  a  rate  of  thirty 
per  cent.  Let  us  suppose  the  case  to  prove 
that  in  all  the  provinces  (with  the  exception 
of  Lower  Canada)  the  population  increases 
by  thirty  per  cent,  between  1861  and  1871, 
and  that  that  of  Lower  Canada  increases  by 
thirty-four  per  cent.  It  may,  perhaps,  be 
objected  to  this  that  it  is  improbable.  My 
reply  is,  that  when  we  are  discussing  a  scheme 


of  such  importance  as  that  which  is  now  under 
our  consideration,  we  should  provide  for  all 
possible  contingencies;  but  this  one  is  far 
from  being  impossible  if  the  predictions  of  the 
Minister  of  Finance  and  the  Attorney  General, 
who  promise  to  Lower  Canada  so  brilliant  a 
future  under  the  Federal  system,  are  fulfilled. 
If  Lower  Canada  becomes  the  heart  of  the 
commercial  life  of  the  Confederation ;  if  the 
mines  of  copper,  lead,  silver,  and  gold  which 
we  have  lately  discovered  should  produce  the 
same  results  that  they  produce  everywhere 
else,  that  of  attracting  a  great  influx  of  popu- 
lation, I  cannot  be  accused  of  any  very  great 
exaggeration  in  supposing  that  the  population 
of  Lower  Canada  may,  between  the  years  1861 
and  1871,  increase  by  four  per  cent,  more 
than  the  population  of  the  other  provinces. 
In  the  case  which  I  have  supposed  the  in- 
crease would  be  as  follows : — 

Upper  Canada 418,827 

Lower  Canada. 377,625 

Nova  Scotia 99,257 

New  Brunswick 75,614 

Newfoundland 39,000 

Prince  Edward  Island 24,227 

Total  increase 1,034,550 

According  to  this  calculation,  Lower  Canada 
would  have,  in  1871,  a  population  of  1,488,- 
289  souls,  which  would  have  to  be  divided  by 
65,  that  being  the  invariable  number  of  repre- 
sentatives assigned  to  Lower  Canada,  in  order 
to  ascertain  what  will  be  the  number  of  con- 
stituents for  each  representative  in  the  Fed- 
eral Parliament ;  the  result  will  be  found  to 
be  22,896.  Upper  Canada  would  have  a 
population  of  1,814,918  souls,  which,  divided 
by  22,896,  would  give  her  seventy-nine  repre- 
sentatives instead  of  eighty -two.  Nova  Scotia 
would  have  a  population  of  430,114  souls, 
which  would  give  her  nineteen  representatives 
as  at  present  (eighteen  and  a  fraction  over  the 
half).  New  Brunswick  would  have  a  popu- 
lation of  327,661  souls,  which  would  give  her 
fourteen  representatives  instead  of  fifteen. 
Newfoundland  would  have  a  population  of 
169,000  souls,  which  would  give  her  seven 
representatives  instead  of  eight.  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island  would  have  a  population  of 
104,984  souls,  which  would  give  her  five 
members  as  at  present  (four  and  a  fraction 
over  the  half).  It  will  be  seen  tliat  if  the 
five  other  provinces  were  represented  on  the 
same  scale  as  Lower  Canada,  they  would,  in 
1871,  lose  among  them  five  members;  but  as 
the  total  population  of  each  will  not  have 
decreased  by  five  per  cent.,  relatively  to  the 
total  population  of  the  Confederated  Provinces, 


360 


there  will  be  no  reduction  in  tlie  number  of 
their  representatives,  in  accordance  with  the 
provisions  of  this  21st  clause.  It  is  tlie 
interest  of  Lower  Canada,  more  than  of  any 
other  province,  to  watch  with  a  jealous  eye 
over  the  mechanism  adopted  for  the  organiza- 
tion of  the  Federal  Le2;islature.  In  case  of  a 
vital  question  arising,  we  should  have  to  coun- 
teract the  votes  of  these  five  members  (who 
ought,  in  justice,  to  be  deducted  from  the 
representation  of  the  other  provinces)  by  those 
of  five  of  our  members,  whose  votes  would 
thus  be  lost  to  us,  as  would  also  be  the  weight 
which  their  five  united  counties,  with  a  total 
population  of  114,480  (or  22,896  for  each 
county),  would  throw  into  the  scale.  Other 
combinations  of  circumstances  might  arise 
which  might  prove  even  more  disadvantageous 
to  us.  This  subject  naturally  leads  me  to 
address  myself  to  my  French  Canadian  col- 
leagues ;  I  fear  that  my  remarks  may  not  be 
well  received  by  all,  but  I  hope  that  honorable 
members  will  be  good  enough  to  excuse  my 
frankness  in  consideration  of  the  great  import- 
ance of  the  question.  I  have  no  right  to 
maintain  that  all  those  who  are  favorably  dis- 
posed towards  Confederation  are  not  acting  in 
good  faith;  it  is  not  my  wish  to  reproach 
them  for  acting  according  to  their  convictions, 
but  ill  so  acting  they  should  not  forget  the 
duties  which  their  charge  imposes  on  them. 
It  a  well  known  fact  that  when  the  scheme 
of  Confederation  was  laid  before  the  pub- 
lic, all  tlie  newspapers,  and  most  of  the 
members  who  support  the  Administration, 
declared  themselves  in  favor  of  the  scheme, 
but,  in  nearly  every  instance,  with  an  ex- 
press reservation  of  the  right  to  introduce 
certain  amendments  which  they  considered 
indispensable.  But  the  Honorable  Attor- 
ney General  for  Upper  Canada  declared, 
some  days  ago,  that  the  Government  would 
accept  no  amendment,  and  that  the  resolu- 
tions must  be  adopted  exactly  in  the  shape  in 
which  they  were  brought  down.  Are  honor- 
able members  going  to  submit  to  this  decree? 
Is  it  not  their  intention  at  least  to  make  an 
effort  to  have  tlioso  amendments,  which  they 
looked  upon  as  indispensable,  adopted  ?  Their 
po.sitii)n  in  relation  to  the  Government  confers 
upon  them  an  influence  which  they  can  never 
exert  more  usefully  than  at  present ;  it  is 
their  duty  to  exert  that  influence ;  they  are 
responsible  for  the  results  of  this  measure, 
which  cannot  be  adopted  without  their  con- 
currence. I'iKiir  principal  argument  in  sup- 
port of  Confederation  is  that  we  have  now  an 
excellent  opportunity  of  obtaining  favorable 


conditions — an  opportunity  which  will  proba- 
bly never  occur  again,  and  one  of  which  it  is 
their  duty  to  avail  themselves.     But  have  the 
honorable   members  made  those  conditions  ? 
Have  they  taken  as  great  precautions  to  pre- 
serve intact  the  interests  of  nearly  a  million 
French  Canadians  entrusted  to  their  care,  as 
they  would  have  taken  in  making  an  agree- 
ment for  the  sale  of  a  farm,  or  even  the  pur- 
cha.se  of  a  horse  ?     Have  they  made  any  con- 
ditions at  all  ?     If  they  have  made  no  condi- 
tions, do  they  at  least  know  what  the  fate  is 
that  is  reserved  for  us  ?     Do  they  know  the 
nature  of  the  fonn  of  Government  which  will 
be  imposed  on  Lower  Canada  ?     Can  they 
say  whether  we  shall  have  Responsible  Gov- 
ernment ?     No  1  for  the  Ministry  refuses  to 
speak ;  it  will  only  speak  when  the  measure 
of  Confederation  shall  have  been  adopted,  and 
when  it  is  too  late  to  raise  any  objections. 
Responsible  government  would  not  be  a  very 
efficacious  remedy  for  the  evils  which  I  fore- 
see, but  it  would,  at  all  events,  be  a  means  of 
defence  for  us,  and  we  ought  not  to  reject  it. 
It  is  true  that,  according  to  the  41st  article 
of   the  resolutions,   "  The  local  governments 
and  legislature  of  each  province  shall  bj  con- 
structed in  such  manner  as  the  existing  legis- 
lature of  each  such  province  shall  provide." 
But  the  English  element  is  at  present  in  the 
majority.     We  are  told  that  the  English  are 
naturally   '^favorable   to   responsible     govern- 
ment.    That  is  true  when  it  relates  to  them- 
selves ;  for  how  many  years  did  Canada  re- 
main without  responsible  government  ?    The 
painful   events  ol"  1837   and   1838  were  the 
result  of  that  anomaly  in  the  parliamentary 
system.     Upper  Canada  will  not  need,  as  we 
shall,  a  local  responsible  government ;  it  will 
not  have,  as  we  shall  have,  to  defend  a  nation- 
ality which  will  be  in  a  minority  in  the  Fed- 
eral Parliament,  but  which,  at  least,  ought  to 
enjoy  in  Lower  Canada  those  powers  which 
parliamentary    authority  everywhere   accords 
to  the  majority.     Upper  Canada  only  desires 
to  make  of  her  local  legislature  a  municipal 
council  on  a  larj^c  scale  ;  she  will  light  out 
her  party  ((uarrels  in  the  wider  arena  of  the 
Federal  Parliament.     The  English  of  Tiowcr 
Canada,  who  will  jjain  nothing  by  having  a 
responsible   local    government,    because    that 
government  is  the  government  of  the  major- 
ity, will  unite  their  votes  with  those  of  Upper 
Cauada  to  impose  ujton   uu   the  same  system 
of  government  as  in  the  other  section.     The 
local  parliaments,  in  the  event  of  that  system 
being  adopted,  having  no  part   in  the  govern- 
ment, will  soon  become  porl'cctly  useless,  and 


361 


they  will  soon  be  dispensed  with,  just  as  in  a 
machine  we  do  away  with  useless  and  expen- 
sive wheelwork.  Nothing  will  then  be  left  to 
us  but  the  legislative  union  which  the  honor- 
able members  have  not  ventured  to  propose, 
because  they  are  compelled  to  admit  it  would 
be  an  act  of  crying  injustice  to  Lower  Can- 
ada. But  we  are  told  to  rely  on  article  42, 
which  <;ives  to  the  local  lesrislatures  the  riorht 
of  amending  or  changing  their  Constitutions 
from  time  to  time,  and  it  is  said  that  when 
Lower  Canada  is  separated  from  Upper  Can- 
ada, she  may  alter  her  Constitution  if  she 
pleases,  and  adapt  it  to  her  own  views.  It 
must  not  be  forgotten,  however,  that  the 
Lieutenant-Governor,  who  will  enjoy  the 
right  of  reserving  the  bills  of  the  Local  Par- 
liament for  the  sanction  of  the  Governor  Gen- 
eral, will  be  appointed  by  the  Governor  Gen- 
eral in  Council,  that  is  to  say,  by  the  Federal 
Government,  and,  as  a  matter  of  course,  it 
must  be  expected  that  he  will  act  in  conform- 
ity with  the  views  of  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment. Any  bill  reserved  by  hiin  will  require 
to  be  sanctioned  by  the  Federal  Government, 
which  may  refuse  such  sanction  if  they  think 
proper,  as  they  undoubtedly  will  as  regards 
any  bill  the  object  of  which  might  be  to  give 
responsible  government  to  Lower  Canada, 
whilst  all  the  other  provinces  would  only  have 
governments  which  were  not  responsible.  And 
the  militia, — it  will  be  exclusively  under  the 
control  of  the  Federal  Government.  Have 
the  honorable  the  French-Canadian  members, 
to  whom  I  more  particularly  address  myself 
at  this  moment,  reflected  on  the  danger  to  us 
that  is  contained  in  this  provision  ?  It  is  with 
reluctance  that  I  once  more  allude  to  the  dif- 
ficulties which  may  arise  between  the  different 
sections  of  the  Confederacy,  but  it  would  be 
wrong  to  shut  our  eyes  to  the  future  for  fear 
that  it  may  appear  too  threatening.  Did  we 
not,  a  few  days  ago,  hear  one  of  the  honorable 
members,  who  most  warmly  supports  the  Gov- 
ernment, complain  in  this  House  that  Upper 
Canada  was  going  to  have  four  military 
schools,  whilst  Lower  Canada  would  only  have 
two  ?  Why  should  we  vest  in  the  Federal 
Government  the  right  of  giving  instruction  in 
the  military  art  and  of  arming  the  other 
provinces  at  the  expense  of  Lower  Canada  ? 
Why,  while  there  is  yet  time,  should  we  ne- 
glect to  take  those  salutary  precautions  on 
which  our  existence  as  French-Canadians  de- 
pend ?  Our  Local  Government  ought  to  have 
the  same  active  part  in  the  organization,  in- 
struction and  equipment  of  our  militia  which 

4T 


belongs  to  all  local  governments  which  form 
part  of  other  confederacies.  But  I  was  for- 
getting that  this  is  to  be  a  model  Confeder- 
ation, which  is  to  unite  within  itself  all  the 
evils  of  the  Federative  system  without  includ- 
ing one  of  its  advantages.  I  read  in  the  work 
in  favor  of  Confederation,  to  which  I  have 
referred  on  more  than  one  occasion,  page  25, 
as  follows :  "  With  them  we  offer  protection 
to  your  religion,  to  your  institutions,  and  to 
your  civil  laws,"  &c.,  &c.  They  offer  to  protect 
the  French-Canadians;  but  when,  under  the 
present  Constitution,  they  can  protect  them- 
selves, why  should  they  abdicate  the  right  of  so 
doing  ?  Now  they  are  strongly  entrenched  in 
their  citadel,  and  they  are  advised  to  raze  the 
walls  in  order  to  secure  their  safety.  The 
French  Canadians,  at  the  present  day,  are  in  a 
better  position  than  they  were  at  the  time  of 
the  union.  They  are  at  the  same  time  both 
judges  and  suitors.  They  are  asked  to  adopt 
a  new  form  of  government ;  it  is  not  imposed 
upon  them ;  and,  to  induce  them  to  do  so, 
thehon.  Minister  of  Aoriculture  tells  them  that 
this  new  form  of  government  was  recommended 
successively  by  Chief  Justice  Sewell,  Judge 
Robinson,  and  Lord  ^urham.  The  names 
alone  of  these  three  men  ought  to  suffice  to 
open  our  eyes;  their  avowed  object  always 
was  to  obliterate  French-Canadian  nationality, 
to  blend  the  races  into  one  only,  and  that  the 
English  ;  and  to  attain  that  end  they  recom- 
mended, as  the  Minister  of  Agriculture  has 
told  us,  the  system  of  government  now  sub- 
mitted for  our  approval.  In  the  last  passage, 
a  few  lines  of  which  I  have  just  cited,  we 
find  at  page  25  a  phrase  upon  wliich  I  have 
reflected  seriously ;  it  is  as  follows,  and  is 
placed  by  the  author  in  the  mouths  of  the 
English- Canadians  of  Lower  Canada,  "  Re- 
member that  we,  too,  are  inhabitants  of  Lower 
Canada,  and  that  we,  too,  aspire  to  other  and 
nobler  destinies."  I  asked  of  myself,  with 
all  seriousness,  what  then  are  the  aspirations 
of  the  French-Canadians?  I  have  always 
imagined,  indeed  I  still  imagine,  that  they  all 
centre  in  one  point,  the  maintenance  of  their 
nationality  as  a  shield  destined  for  the  protec- 
tion of  the  institutions  they  hold  most  dear. 
For  a  whole  century  this  has  ever  been  the 
aim  of  the  French-Canadians;  in  the  long 
years  of  adversity  they  have  never  for  a  mo- 
ment lost  sight  of  it ;  surmounting  all  obstacles, 
they  have  advanced  step  by  step  towards  its 
attainment,  and  what  progress  have  they  not 
made  ?  What  is  their  position  to-day  ?  They 
number  nearly  a  million,  they  have  no  longer, 


56^ 


if  they  are  true  to  themselves,  to  fear  the  fate 
of  Louisiana,  which  had  not  as  many  inhabi- 
tants, when  it  was  sold  by  Napoleon  to  the 
United  States,  as  Canada  had  in  1761.  A 
people  numbering  a  million  does  not  vanish 
easily,  especially  when  they  are  the  owners  of 
the  soil.  Their  number  is  rapidly  increasing. 
New  townships  are  boing  opened  in  ever}' 
direction,  and  being  peopled  with  industrious 
settlers.  In  the  Eastern  Townships,  which  it 
was  thought  were  destined  to  be  peopled  en- 
tirely by  English  settlers,  these  latter  are 
slowly  giving  way  to  the  French-Canadians. 
There  is  a  friendly  rivalry  between  the  two 
races,  a  struggle  of  labor  and  energy  ;  contact 
with  our  fellow-countrymen  of  English  ori<>,in 
has  at  last  opened  our  eyes ;  we  have  at  last 
comprehended  that  in  order  to  succeed,  not 
only  labor  is  needed,  but  well-directed  and 
skilled  labor,  and  we  profit  by  their  example 
and  by  the  experience  they  have  acfjuired  in 
the  old  countries  of  Europe.  Agriculture 
with  us  is  now  becoming  an  honorable  pursuit ; 
the  man  of  education  is  no  longer  ashamed  to 
devote  himself  to  it.  Our  farmcr.s  feel  the  ne- 
cessity and  desire  of  attaining  peifi-Ction  in  the 
ait.  We  possess  magnificent  model  farms,  in 
which  we  can  learu  the  science  of  agriculture. 
We  are  entering  a  new  era  of  prosperity. 
The  French-Canadians  hold  a  distinguished 
position  in  the  commerce  of  the  country ; 
they  have  founded  banks  and  savings  banks  ; 
on  the  St.  Lawrence  between  Quebec  and 
Montreal,  they  own  one  of  the  finest  lines  of 
steamboats  in  America  ;  there  is  not  a  parish 
on  the  great  river  which  has  not  its  steamboat ; 
the  communications  with  the  great  towns  are 
easy  ;  we  have  railways,  and  we  now  measure 
by  hours  the  duration  of  a  journey  which  for- 
merly we  measured  by  days ;  we  have  foun- 
dries and  manufactories,  and  our  sshipbuild- 
ers  have  obtained  a  European  renown.  We 
have  a  literature  peculiarly  our  own  ;  we  have 
authors,  of  whom  we  are  justly  proud  ;  to  them 
weentrustour  language  and  ourhistory;  they 
are  the  pillars  of  our  uationality.  Nothing  de- 
notes our  existence  as  a  people  so  much  as  our  lit- 
erature ;  education  has  penetrated  evcrywliere  ; 
we  have  several  excellent  colleges,  and  an  uni- 
versity in  which  all  the  sciences  may  lie  studied 
und(!r  exccUo'it  professors.  Our  young  men 
learn  in  the  military  schools  how  to  defend 
tiieir  cf)uiitry.  We  possess  all  the  elements 
of  a  nationality.  But  a  few  mouths  ago,  wo 
were  steadily  advancing  towards  prosperity, 
satisfied  with  the  present  and  coiifiilent  in  the 
future  of  the  French-Canadian  people.  Sud- 
denly diBcouragcmeut,  which  had  never  over- 


come us  in  our  adversity,  takes  possession  of 
us;  oUr  aspirations  are  now  only  empty 
dreams;  the  labors  of  a  century  must  be 
wasted;  we  must  give  up  our  nationality, 
adopt  a  new  one,  greater  and  nobler,  we  are 
told,  than  our  own,  but  then  it  will  no  longer 
be  our  own.  And  why  ?  Because  it  is  our 
inevitable  fate,  against  which  it  is  of  no  use 
to  stru^le.  But  have  we  not  already  strug- 
gled against  destiny  when  we  were  more  feeble 
than  we  are  now,  and  have  we  not  triumphed  ? 
Let  us  not  give  to  the  world  tlie  sad  spectacle 
of  a  people  voluntarily  resigning  its  nation- 
ality. Nor  do  we  intend  to  do  so.  Let  the 
people  have  time  given  them  to  understand 
the  question  ;  let  their  opinion  on  the  subject 
be  obtained  at  the  polls.  It  is  but  their  right, 
unless  our  ibrm  of  government  is  a  delusion 
and  a  snare.  If  the  measure  is  a  good  one, 
what  danger  is  there  in  discussing  it  Y  If  the 
new  Constitution  it  is  proposed  to  give  us  is 
to  last  for  centuries,  whv  should  we  not  at 
least  endeavor  to  make  it  as  peri'ect  as  ])ossi- 
ble  ?  Why  press  its  adoption  before  it  is 
understood  ?  In  conclusion,  I  object  to  the 
proposed  Confederation,  first,  as  a  Canadian, 
without  reference  to  origin,  and  secondly,  as 
a  French-Canadian.  From  either  point  of 
view,  I  look  upon  the  measure  as  a  fatal  error ; 
and,  as  a  French-Canadian,  I  once  n)orc  appcjil 
to  my  fellow-countrymen,  reminding  them  oi  the 
precious  inheritance  confided  to  their  keepintr 
— an  inheritance  sanctified  by  the  blood  of 
their  lathers,  and  which  it  is  their  duty  to 
hand  down  to  their  children  us  unimpaired  as 
they  received  it.     (Cheers.) 

The  debate  was  then  adjourned. 


Tuesday,    February  i5l,  1IS65. 

Hon.  SoLiciTot  Genkral  L.'\NGKVIN 
— It  is  not  without  some  'degree  of  iiesitation 
tha^  I  rise  to  i.ddress  the  House  on  this 
oeiasiou  ;  for  I  see  belore  me  the  repro.-cnt- 
atives  of  two  millions  and  a  half  ul  people, 
who  are  CiUed  togetlier  to  sett!.-  the  most 
weighty  matters  which  concern  them,  and 
more  particularly  to  take  into  consideration 
a  question  involving  the  destiny,  notciJy  of 
the  two  Caiiadas,  but  jiKso  of  all  the  I'ruviu- 
ees  of  British  North  America.  1  must  ron- 
fess  that  1  experience  a  strung  feeling  of 
hesitation  and  gif.at  diffidence  of  my  own 
powers,  whi-n  I  consider  the  importance  of 
the  measure  submitted  to  us  lor  discussion, 
and  the  consequences  which  uiuy  result  from 


363 


oui'  decision,  both  to  ourselves  and  our  pos- 
terity. The  measure  is  so  vast  in  its  bear 
ings,  ihe  interests  aflFected  by  it  are  so  con- 
siderable, that  no  one  can  be  surprised  at  my 
diffidence  and  hesitation.  This  question  of 
Confederation  is  bound  up  with  the  common 
interests  of  empires  and  the  p-eneral  policy 
of  nations,  for  it  is  no  unimportant  matter 
for  the  great  nations  who  bear  sway  among 
mankind,  to  know  into  what  hands  the  Pro- 
vinces of  British  North  Amedca  may  fall. 
We  need  only  look  back  into  the  pages  of 
history  to  learn  how  greatly  nations  are 
moved  by  the  creation  of  a  new  people  ; 
and  on  the  present  occasion,  the  thousand 
voices  of  the  press  proclaim  the  interest 
which  the  question  of  Confederation  excites 
both  in  America  and  in  Europe  :tself,  and 
how  closely  the  governments  observe  our 
proceedings  ]  and  this  interest  which  they 
feel  and  proclaim  is  legitimate  and  natural, 
for  the  measure  is  destined  to  make  us  rank 
among  the  nations  of  the  earth.  More  than 
all,  this  question  particularly  concerns  Eng- 
land and  the  United  States,  and  in  an  equal 
degree  with  ourselves.  England  is  interest- 
ed in  seeing  these  provinces  well  governed, 
prosperous,  free,  contented  acd  happy  She 
is  interested  in  their  having  a  good  govern- 
ment, and  that  it  should  be  so  administered 
a.s  to  be  no  burthen  to  her  as  the  Mother 
Country  ;  that,  on  the  contrary,  they 
should  become  powerful  and  in  a  position  to 
assist  her  in  certain  eventualities.  On  the 
other  baud,  the  Uuit'id  States  must  feel  a 
degree  of  satisfaction  in  seeing  the  Provinces 
of  British  North  America  become  a  powerful 
nation.  They  will  see  it  without  a  feeling 
allied  to  jealousy.  They  must  wish  us  to  be 
strong  enough  to  maintain  our  neutrality, 
our  good  understaudiuji:  with  them,  and  those 
friendly  relations  which  should  ever  subsist 
between  neighboring  nations.  But  if  this 
question  is  interesting  to  England  and  the 
United  Slates,  it  is  still  more  so  to  ourselves — 
to  us,  whose  destiny  is  at  scike,  to  us  whose 
position  is  a  lofty  one  as  compared  with  the 
ordinary  lot  of  naciojs  ;  for  the  faculty  is- 
not  granted  to  all  nations  to  choose  their  own 
lot  in  the  full  leisure  of  a  time  of  peace,  with- 
out the  taint  uf  a  single  drop  of  blooil  she  i — 
to  fix  upon  a  Constitution  which  will  set  them 
at  once  on  the  high  road  of  progress,  and 
enable  them  to  take  such  ground  for  their 
career  as  may  .seera  g0':>d  in  their  own  eyes. 
In  1810  when  the  union  of  the  two  Canadas 
was  under  consideration,  we  occupied  no  such 
position,  for  that  union  was  imposed  upon  us 


in  our  own  despite,  and  we  were  never  con- 
sulted on  the  subject.  It  will  be  re-  . 
membered  that  for  a  certain  time  our 
very  language  was  proscribed,  and  our 
position  rendered  as  unfortunate  as  it  could 
be  made.  True,  we  had  an  equal  nuri- 
ber  of  representatives  in  this  House,  but 
as  a  people  we  were  manifestly  held  to 
be  inferior.  I  grant  that  the  attempt  to  fix 
the  voke  permanently  on  our  necks  proved 
a  failure,  but  this  was  no  fault  of  those  who 
imposed  the  union  on  us.  We  have  won 
the  position  which  we  now  occupy  by  our 
own  energy'  and  perseverance,  assisted  by 
some  of  the  representatives  of  Upper  Ca- 
nada. At  this  day  things  are  greatly  changed. 
We  are  in  the  midst  of  a  great  revolution, 
but  a  revolution  of  which  peace  is  the  guid- 
ing spirit ;  we  are  free  to  deliberate  whether 
we  will  change  our  position,  and  to  dictate 
the  terms  on  which  the  change  is  to  be 
made.  We  are  invited  to  shape  out  our 
future  destiny,  and  we  should  not  be  true  to 
our-elves,  jr  to  our  constituents,  if  we  refused 
■his  day  to  avail  ourselves  of  the  resolutions 
adopted  at  the  Conference  of  Quebec.  The 
hou.  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon  Mr.  Do- 
rion),  whom  I  regret  not  to  see  in  his  place — 

Hon.  3-r.  HOLTON— He  will  be  here  in 
a  moment. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— The  hou. 
member  for  Ilochelaga  told  us  the  other 
day  that  the  plan  of  a  Confederation  was 
af^opted  and  moved  by  the  present  Adminis- 
tration for  the  mere  purpose  of  stifliLg  the 
cry  of  representition  by  population.  Well, 
and  if  it  reaily  were  so,  where  does  the  hon. 
member  find  the  haim  in  it  ?  Is  it  not  most 
important  that  we  should  stop  that  cry  for 
represeiitat'on  based  on  population,  in  our 
present  condition  ?  Representation  by  nopu- 
Jution  would  h  ve  left  us,  Lower  Canadians, 
in  an  inferior  position  relatively  to  Ihnt  of 
Upper  Canada — would  have  conferred  on  the 
latter  the  privilege  of  legii^lating  for  us,  not 
only  in  general,  but  in  local  matters.  The 
hon.  member  lor  Hochelaga  ought  to  have 
been  the  last  toreproach  the  present  Govern- 
laoot  with  having,  by  this  measure  of  Con- 
federation, stopped  the  cry  for  representation 
b.ised  on  population.  In  1854,  the  hon. 
member  admitted,  as  he  himself  ackn -w- 
ledges,  that  representation  based  on  popula- 
tion was  Justin  princip.e,  and  the  consequence 
of  that  admission  was  f  ital  The  cunsequence 
was  that  the  hon.  member  was  compelled  to 
keep  in  the  same  track  until  the  formation 
ot   the  BaoT^N  DoRJON   Administration   in 


864 


1858 — an  Adruinistration  which  had  no  very 
long  existence.     THear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  II  OLTON— Unfortunately. 
(Lausihter.) 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— That 
Administration  had  no  very  long  existenco, 
and  I  rejoice  that  I  did  my  part  in  upsetting 
it,  for  it  is  probable  that,  if  it  had  stood, 
representation  based  on  population  would 
have  been  forced  upon  us,  and  we  should 
not  be  now  in  our  present  position — in  a 
position  to  make  our  own  terms  as  freely  as 
Upper  Canada,  and*take  part,  on  a  footing  of 
equtlity,  in  negotiating  a  treaty  with  the 
Lower  Provinces.  This  is  wh^  I  rejoice 
that  I  contributed  to  ovtir throw  that  govern- 
ment. The  hon.  member  for  Hochelajia 
told  us  the  other  evening  that  in  1856  he 
spoke  as  follows  : — 

In  1856,  when  Parliament  was  sitting  at  To- 
ronto, I  first  suor'^^ested  that  one  means  of  sur- 
raountin,^  our  difficulties  would  be  the  substitution 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas  in  place  of  a 
Legislative  union.  By  that  arrangement  local 
questions  would  be  debated  in  the  local  legisla- 
tures, and  the  Central  Government  would  have 
the  control  of  commercial  and  other  questions 
of  general  interest.  I  said  that  considering  the 
ditforoMces  of  race,  religion  and  laws  now  exist- 
ing between  the  two  sections  of  the  country,  it 
would  he  the  best  means  of  surmounting  them. 
I'hat  is  to  say,  1  would  leave  to  a  central  govern- 
ment uuestions  regarding  commerce,  banking, 
the  currency,  public  works  of  a  general  character, 
Ac,  and  to  the  local  legislatures  all  local  ques- 
tions. At  the  same  time  I  said  that  if  thest?  views 
were  not  accepted,  1  should  certainly  be  in  favor 
vif  representation  based  on  population,  with  con- 
ditions and  guarantees  which  would  secure  the 
interests  of  Lower  Canada,  and  jpreserve  to 
^.>w^i  Canada  the  institutions  which  are  so  dear 
to  her. 

Well,  we  see  that  in  1856,  the  hon.  member 
for  Hochclaga  was  desirou!?  of  forming  a 
new  Constitution  for  the  express  purpose  of 
stifling  the  cry  for  representation  bas.^d  on 
population.  In  1858  he  formed,  together 
with  the  present  Hon.  President  of  the  Coun- 
cil (Hon.  Mr.  Brown),  the  IJkown-Dorion 
Government;  and  again,  he  stipulated  that 
t.e  question  of  representation  based  on 
population  should  be  taken  into  oon.sidera- 
tion,  and  that  the  GovernmiJtit  should  con- 
sider the  means  of  settling  the  ditliculties 
which  it  involved.  In  1S59  he  si'gued  a 
document,  which  al-X)  bore  the  signiituros  of 
Hon.  Mr,  DauMMOND,  Hon.  Mr.  Dkh- 
8AU).LE8,  and  Hon.  Mr.  McG  kk,  in  which  ho 
Bald  with   hia   colleagues,  that   a  ohango  in 


the  Constitution  of  the  country  wa.«  neces- 
sary :— 

If  Lower  Canada  insists  on  maintaining  the 
union  intact :  if  she  will  neither  consent  to  a 
dissolution  of  the  union,  nor  consider  the  project 
of  a  Federation,  it  is  difficult  to  conceive  on  what 
reasonable  grounds  the  demand  for  representation 
according  to  population  can  l)e  resisted.  The 
plea  for  such  resistance  has  hitherto  been  that 
danger  might  arise  to  some  of  her  peculiar  and 
most  cherished  institutions;  but  that  ground  will 
be  no  longer  tenable  if  she  rejects  a  proposition, 
the  effect  of  which  would  be  to  leave  to  her  own 
people  the  sole  and  absolute  custody  of  those 
institutions,  and  to  surround  them  by  the  most 
stringent  of  all  possible  safeguards,  the  provisions 
of  the  fundamental  law  of  the  land,  unalterable 
save  by  the  action  of  the  people  aflfected  by  them. 
The  logical  alternative  now  presented  to  the 
people  of  Lower  Canada  would,  therefoi-e,  seem 
to  be  dissolution  or  federation  on  the  one  hand, 
and  representation  according  to  population  on  the 
other. 

Here,  again,  he  intended  to  t^tifle  the  cry 
of  representation  based  on  population,  and 
intended  to  do  it  by  founding  a  new  Confed- 
eration. In  1861  it  was  just  the  same  ;  he 
declared  that  he  was  desirous  of  settling 
that  question  of  the  representation  ;  that  it 
was  not  expedient  that  it  should  remain  an 
open  question  ;  that  it  was  a  difficulty  to  be 
got  rid  of  one  way  or  another.  In  1862, 
also,  he  went  into  the  Government  with  the 
same  object  in  view  But  how  did  he  set 
about  carrying  it  out  ?  He  made  it  a  close 
question,  and  adopted,  with  his  colleagues, 
the  plan  of  the  double  majority.  The  hon. 
member  doubtless  had  forgotten  that  in  1859, 
when  ho  penned  the  manifesto  which  I  have 
just  quoted,  he  had  condemned  the  double 
majority.  Here  is,  in  fact,  what  he  said  in 
that  document  : — 

In  each  section  there  would  still  be  minority 
and  majority  parties,  and  unless  the  principle  of 
the  double  majority  could  be  enacted  as  a  funda- 
mental law,  we  should  be  exposed  to  an  mdless 
round  of  the  same  comolaints  that  we  now  hear, , 
of  one  section  ruling  the  other  contrary  to  its  woU 
known  public  opinion,  and  to  see  reproduced  in 
our  politics  the  same  passions,  the  same  iritrigu-.'S, 
the  same  corruption  and  insincerity.  Thd  enact- 
ment of  the  double  majority  is  not  advocated  in 
any  quarter.  Th^  inipos.sil>ility  of  clearly  defining 
the  cases  to  whii-h  it  should  apply,  and  of  distin- 
guishing them  from  those  to  which  it  should  not, 
is  felt  by  all  ;  but  were  it  even  pos.sible,  it  would 
only  lead  to  now  phases  of  diHiculty,  by  compelling 
majorities  prol'essitijf  opinions  and  principle! 
(liametrioiilly  opposel  to  ea<!h  other,  to  unite, 
and!thoreby  effectually  to  extingnish  tho  influence 


365 


of  one  or  the  other  minority,  or  of  both.  It  is 
difficult  to  conceive  one  single  legislature  com- 
posed of  two  majorities  and  two  minorities  ;  these 
two  majorities  without  any  identity  of  principle, 
acting  nevertheless  together  by  common  consent, 
so  as  to  never  trespass  the  one  on  the  other,  and 
so  that  each  section  of  the  province  would  always 
be  governed  by  a  majority  of  its  representatives. 
On  many  questions  this  course  could  not  be  car- 
ried out  without  alternately  forcing  the  majority 
of  the  representatives  of  each  section  of  the  pro- 
vince to  abstain  from  voting,  or  to  declare  them- 
selves in  favor  of  measures  which  their  judgment 
and  their  conscience  would  disavow.  The  com 
plications  of  such  a  system  amounting  to  nothing 
short  of  an  application  of  the  Federal  principle  to 
a  single  legislature,  would  render  it  impracticable. 

Then  the  honorable  member  had  changed 
his  opinion  on  this  subject  I  I  do  not  say 
this  as  a  reproach ;  but  it  proves  that  he 
always  acted  with  the  same  object  in  view — 
that  is  to  say,  to  stifle  the  cry  for  representation 
based  on  population.  How,  then,  does  it 
happen  that  he  finds  fault  with  the  present 
Ministry  for  bringing  forward  a  measure  to 
put  an  end  to  these  difficulties,  and  to  pre- 
vent our  being  placed  in  a  position  of  infe- 
riority? But  the  object  of  the  Confederation 
is  not  merely  to  do  away  with  existing  diffi- 
culties. It  has  become  a  necessity,  because 
we  have  become  sufficiently  great, — because 
we  have  become  strong,  rich,  and  powerful 
enough, — because  our  products  are  numerous 
enough  and  considerable  enough, — because 
our  population  has  become  large  enough  to 
allow  of  our  aspiring  to  another  position,  and 
of  our  seeking  to  obfc^an  an  outlet  through 
some  seaport  tor  our  products.  At  the  pre- 
sent day  we  stand  in  a  position  of  vassalage 
to  the  United  States,  with  respect  to  the 
exportation  of  our  products  to  Europe  ',  we 
are  at  their  mercy.  If  we  should  have  any 
difficulty  with  our  neighbors  to-morrow,  they 
would  close  the  Portland  route  to  us,  and  we 
should  find  ourselves,  during  nearly  seven 
months  in  the  year,  cut  off"  from  all  commu- 
nication with  the  seaboard,  save  by  means 
ot  the  usual  long  and  difficult  land  journey. 
This  is  not  a  teoable  position,  nor  one  worthy 
of  a  people  such  as  that  which  inhabits  the 
Provinces  of  British  North  America.  It  is 
a  position  which  mu.st  be  emerged  from,  for 
such  is  the  interest  of  Canada,  of  the  Lower 
Provinces,  and  of  the  Western  States.  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  told  us  that 
he  was  in  favor  of  a  plan  which  would  settle 
existing  difficulties,  and  would  place  Lower 
Canada  in  a  suitable  position  ;  but  he  never 
told  us  what  that  plan  was.  The  only  thing 
he  ever  proposed  was  his  plan  of  1859  for 


the  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas ;   but 
that  plan  would  only  have  settled  one  diffi- 
culty, and  would  have  allowed  others  of  the 
greatest    importance  to    arise — and   among 
others,   that  respecting  our   communication 
with  the  seaboard.      That  plan,  for  instance, 
would  not  have  allowed  us  to  construct  the 
Intercolonial  Railway;   for  it  is  almost  im- 
possible that  so   great  an  enterprise  should 
succeed  unless  it  is  in  the  hands  of  a  great 
central  power,  and  if  it  is  necessary  to  consult 
five   or  six  governments  before  commencing 
it.     But  the  question  of  the  Confederation  of 
the  two  Caoadas  is  not  the  only  uae  which 
is  presented  as  a  means  of  escaping  from  our 
difficulties;  there  are  diff"erent  plans  which  I 
.shall  enumerate.    Some  propose,  for  instance, 
that  we  should  remain  in   the  position   in 
which  we  now  are  ;  others  wish  for  annexa- 
tion to  the  United  States;   some  would,  per- 
haps, be  in  favor  of  complete  independence ; 
others  would  favor  a  Confederation  of  the  two 
Canadas  ;  and,  lastly,  the  Confederation  of  all 
the  British   North   American   Provinces    is 
proposed.     Well,   let  us    cursorily  examine 
these  various  propositions.     It  may  be  that 
there  are  some   members  who  are   desirous 
that  we  should  remain  as  we   are.       The 
honorable     members     for     Hochelaga    and 
Lotbini^re  (Hon.  Mr.  DoaiON  and  3Ir.  Joly) 
consider    our    position    an    excellent    one, 
and     so,    in     their     speeches,    they     have 
told    us.     Tht-y  consider    that  we    are    ex- 
tremely    prosperous,     and     that     we    have 
nothing  to  wish  for.     For  my  part,  I  consider 
that  in  our  present  position  we  are  under  a 
great  disadvantage  ;  it  is  that  if  we  remain 
isolated  and  alone,  we  cannot  communicate 
with    the    metropolis,    except   through    the 
United  States ;  if  we   remain  alone  we   can 
aspire  to  no  position,  we  can  give  rein  to  no 
ambition   as   a  people.     Again,  we  have  at 
the  present  time  as  many  systems  of  judica- 
ture as  we  have  provinces;  with  Coofedera- 
tion,   on   the    contrary,    this  defect  will    be 
removed,  and  there  will  be  but  two  systems: 
one  for  Lower  Canada,  because  our  laws  are 
diiferent  from  those  of  the  other  provinces, 
because  we  are  a  separate  people,  and  because 
we  do  not  choose  to  have  the   laws   of  the 
other    populations — and  the    other  for    the 
remainder    of  the  Confederation.     All   the 
other  provinces  having  the  same    laws,  or 
their  sy.stem  of  law  being  derived  from  one 
and  the  same  source,  may  have  one  and  the 
same   system  of  judicature;  and,  in  fact,  a 
resolutioD  of  the  Conference  allows  them  to 
resolve  that  they  will  have  one  code  and  one 


366 


judicial  systeiu  ;  but  an  exception  is  made  in 
favor  of  Lower  Canad:-.  and  our  laws.     There 
are  also  as  many  different  tariffs  ris  there  are 
different  provinces,  as  many  commercial  and 
customs  regulations  as  provinces.     It  is  true 
that  there  are   now  many  free  goods,  but  it 
is  also  correct  to  say  that  ihere  as  many  cus- 
toms systems  as  there   are   provinces.     And 
with  respect  to  great  colonial  works,  is  it  not 
true  that  it  is  impossible  at  the  present  day 
to  undertake  them,  because  the  interests  in- 
volved are  too  considerable,  and  because  it  is 
necessary  to   consult    three  or   four   legisla- 
tures ?  l:5y  this  it  will  be  understood  that  it  is 
almost  impossible  to  reconcile  so  many  differ- 
ent interests,  except  by  uniting  in  one  and  the 
same  legislature  the  representatives  of  those 
interests  and  of  the  people  affected  by  them, 
and  this  object  we  cannot  attain  by  remaining 
by  ourselves.     Currency  and  tie  iuterest  of 
money  are  also  regulated  by  different  systems 
in  the  several  provinces.     There  is  one  cur- 
lency  here,  another    in.    Newfoundland,  an- 
other  in  Prince  Edward   Island,  and  so  on. 
The  shilling  and  pound  of  this  province  are 
different  from    the   shilling  and    pound    of 
Newfoundland  and  those  of  the  other  ]Mari- 
time  Provinces.     But,  with    Confederation, 
all  these  matters  would  be  placed  under  the 
control  of  one   central   legislature;  the  cur- 
rency  would  become    uniform    throughout, 
and  capital  might  be  everywhere  invested 
without   obstacle.     So  also   it   will  be  with 
respect  to  the  rights   of  authors,  patents  fur 
mechanical  inventions,  &c.     When  speaking 
of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  I  made  no  men- 
tion of  the   Pacific   Hallway,  because  I  con- 
sider that  we  ought  to  devote  our  attention  to 
accomplishing  the    works  of  which    we  at 
present  stand  in   need.     At   a  later   period, 
when  our  resources  and  our  population  shall 
have  suflSciently  increased,  we  may  direct  our 
attention  to  the  Pacific  Railway.    And  should 
it  become  necessary,   we  can,  with   Coni'ed- 
eradon,  hope   to    build   it   in    less   than    ten 
yearH,  whereas  by  remaining  by  ourselves  as 
we  are,  we  could  not  ho{)e  to  have  it  for  per 
haps  one  hundred  years.   I  think  that  I  have 
now  held  up  in  a  salient  point  ol'  view  the 
disadvantages  of  the  statuji  qwt.     The  neces- 
sary consequence  of  what  I  have  just  denion- 
ttrated  is  that  we  ciinuot   remain   in  the  pM- 
sition  io  which  we  now  are,  wh<'ther  we  will 
or    not.       The    question     of    repr«'sentalion 
buBcd    on     populaliiMi    must   be    met;    that 
question   must  be;  settled.     To  sny  that  wo 
will  grant  it  is  to  wish  to  place  us  in  a  po-si- 
tiou  of  inferiority,  aud   1,  for  my  part,  will 


never  consent  to  place   my  section  of  the 
province  in  that   position.     Then    there  is 
another  alternative  that  is  proposed — annex- 
ation to  the  United  States.     I  do  not  believe 
there  is  a  single  member  in  the  House  or  out 
of  the    House  who    would   consent   to   the 
annexation  of  Canada  to  the  United  States 
But  it  is  a  question  which  must  be  examined 
when  discussing  that   of  Confederation,  be- 
cause it  is  one  of  the  alternatives  offered  to 
us,  and   out  of  which  we   have  to  make   a 
selection.    What  then  would  be  our  position 
in    ease    we    were    annexed    to  the    United 
States  ?     It  is  true  that  we  should  become 
an  independent  State  in  the  American  Con- 
federation, but  with  the  advantages  accruing 
from  such  a  state  of  affairs,  we  should  like- 
wise  have    the   disadvantages.     We  should 
have  to  contribute   towards  the  liquidation 
of  the    enormous    debt  which    the    United 
States  have  contracted  in  cunsequeuce  uf  the 
war  which  is  desolating  one  of  the  finest 
portions  of  the  land;  we  should  have  to  pay 
the  interest,  and  subsequently  the   principal 
itself,  for  I  do  not  suppose  that  the  Ameri- 
cans have  the  slightest  intention  of  repudiat- 
ing their  debt.     The  debt  wuuld  have  to-be 
paid,  and  to  effect  that,  heavy  impost^  would 
have  to  be  paid  for  a  great  number  of  years 
to    provide   the   interest  and  sinking  fund. 
Those  who  talk  of  the  debt  which    is  going 
to    result    froui     the    Confederation    should 
remember  that  it  will   be  but   a  mere  trifle 
compared  with    that    for   which   we  should 
becoa.e  responsible  under  annexation.     For 
one  dollar  that  we  shall  have  to  pay  under 
Confederation,   we   should   have  to  pay  six 
under  annexation.     It  is  said  that  the  debt 
will  be  enormous,  but  it  will  only  be  as  one 
dollar  to   four   dollars   in    England,  and  six 
dollars  in   the   United  States.     Tliat   is  the 
financial  aspect   of  annexation.     Rut  what 
would  be  the  fate  of  the   French-Can  tdians 
in    the   ease    of  annexation    to    the    United 
States  '{     Let  us  profit  by  the  example  of  the 
French  race  in  the  United  State.-'.and  enquire 
what  has   bten    the   fate  ol   the  French    in 
Louisiana  ?     What  has    become    of    them  ? 
What  has  become   of  their  language,  their 
customs,  their  mauiiers  and  their  institutions  ? 
After  the  war,  harlly  a  trace  will  remain  to 
show  that  the  h'rench    race    has    pas.-^ed  that 
way.     So  far   us  religion    i.i   concerned,  we 
uiight  not  find   ourselves   so   badly  off;  but 
wo  live  in   peace  at  the  prest-nt  day  and  are 
perfectly  comfortable;  Catholics  and  Froteat- 
unts    have    the    same    rights    and    religious 
liberty,  and  they  live  as  peacefully  together 


367 


as  if  there  was  but  one  religion  in  the  land. 


-We 


are 


>Jr.  DHFRESNT   (Iberville) 
well  off,  J -it  us  rema.o  so. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— Yes,  but 
we  caunot  remain  in  the  position  iu  •which 
we  are.  Tlie  hon.  m  miber  tor  Hochelaga  h;'S 
said  so  for  ten  years  past,  and  undertook  to 
change  it.  He  said  the  position  was  no 
longer  tenable  in  1854,  and  if  it  was  not 
tenable  then,  it  is  still  less  so  in  1865.  I 
now  'lome  to  the  other  alternative  proposed 
to  us —that  of  independence  Men  may  be 
found,  both  in  the  House  and  out  of  the 
House,  who  would  be  disposed  to  say  that 
we  had  better  have  independence  than  Con- 
federation. For  my  part,  I  believe  that  the 
independence  of  the  l^ritish  North  Americau 
Provinces  would  be  the  greatest  misfortune 
which  could  happen  to  them  ;  it  would  be  to 
leave  us  at  the  mercy  of  our  neighbors,  and 
to  thiow  us  into  their  arms.  Independence 
would  make  us  masters  of  our  position,  but 
at  the  same  time  we  should  be  deprived  of 
the  protection  of  England,  and  without  that 
it  is  by  no  means  dilficult  to  foresee  what 
would  become  of  us.  The  hon.  member  for 
Hochelaga  may  think  it  to  our  advantage  to 
be  weak,  but  in  that  opinion  I  do  not  coin- 
cide ;  I  consider  th;it  it  is  better  to  be  in  a 
position  to  meet  the. enemy  in  case  of  his 
attacking  us.  Let  it  be  well  understood 
that  without  the  protection  of  England  we 
can  do  nothing.  And  besides  the  outlay 
which  would  be  entailed  by  our  providing 
for  our  defence,  there  would  also  be  enor- 
mous expenditure  in  order  to  keep  up  in  a 
suitable  manner  our  relations  with  foreign 
powers.  With  independence,  and  without 
the  support  and  assistance  of  England,  we 
should  have  to  maintain  an  army  and  a  very 
expensive  government,  we  should  have  to 
keep  up  diplomatic  relations  with  other 
countries,  and  provide  means  to  defray  a  host 
of  other  expenses  which  we  should  not  have 
to  do  under  Confederation.  Independence 
is,  therefore,  out  of  the  question  for  the  pre- 
sent. Lastly,  we  have  the  fourth  alter- 
native— the  Contederation  of  the  two  Ca- 
nadas,  proposed  by  the  honorable  member 
for  Hocheliga.  Iu  his  manifesto  of  1861  he 
told  us  in  what  position  we  should  then  be. 
The  following  passage  is  from  the  manifesto 
in  question : — 

It  would  have  been  easy  at  any  time  to  satisfy 
Upper  Canada  by  giving  her  four  or  five  members 
more  than  Lower  Canada,  preserving  at  the  same 
time  equality  in  the  Legislative  Council.  To 
avoid  the  danger  which  this  increase  of  members 


might  entail,  it  is  proposed  to  give  Upper  Canada 
seventeen  members  more  than  Lower  Canada, 
and  there  are  added  besides  forty-seven  members 
more  for  the  Mtirilime  Provincs;  in  allsixt^'-fuur 
members  are  added  to  the  British  element,  besides 
the  twenty -eight  additional  members  which  are 
given  to  the  Legislative  Council ;  and  this  is  the 
way  in  which  it  is  pretended  that  the  rights  of 
Lower  Canada  are  to  be  protected. 

The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  according  to 
his  own  plan  would  have  preferred 

Hon.  Mr.  D(3RI0N— It  is  not  a  pLm,  it 
is  an  argument. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— Then  it 
is  a  very  bad  argument — an  argument  by  no 
means  advantageous  to  Lower  Canada.  The 
hon.  member  says  in  that  manifesto  that  it 
would  bo  quite  an  easy  matter  to  secure  the 
silence  of  Upper  Canada,  by  granting  it  four 
or  five  more  members  than  Lower  Canada. 
But  the  hon.  member  ver3'^  well  knows  that 
if  we  were  to  grant  repre.seatation  based  on 
population,  it  would  not  be  four  or  five 
members  we  should  have  to  give  to  Upper 
Canada,  but  the  seventeen  members  which 
it  is  now  proposed  to  give  Upper  Canada  by 
the  plan  of  Confederation.  The  increase 
would  not  be  based  on  an  imaginary  number. 
But  even  with  four  or  five  members  more  in 
the  present  union.  Upper  Canada  could 
impose  its  decision  on  all  questions  which 
might  come  before  the  .House  The  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  has  told  us  that  under 
the  proposed  .syste  t;  Upper  Canada  will  have 
s(!venteen  members  more  ih  n  Lower  Canada, 
and  that  the  English  element  will  be  in- 
creased by  the  addidon  of  all  the  members 
from  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  that  they 
will  enter  into  a  league  against  us  Lower 
Canadians.  I  must  say,  I  do  not  think  the 
hon.  member  pays  a  very  high  compliment 
to  his  ex-colleague  the  Hon.  .Mr.  Holton, 
when  he  says  that  because  the  members  will 
be  English,  they  will  be  against  us  French- 
Canadians.  So  great  was  his  confidence  in 
the  hon.  member  for  Chateauguay,  that  he 
took  him  into  his  Government,  and  would 
take  him  again  to-day  if  he  had  the  oppor- 
tunity; and  yet  the  hon.  member  for  Hoche- 
laga speaks  of  the  English  as  though  they 
were  our  natural  enemies.  For  my  part,  I 
do  not  think  they  are ;  moreover,  the 
question  before  us  is  not  the  formation  of  a 
Local  Government  only.  We  aie  considering 
the  establishment  of  a  Confederacy — with 
a  Central  Parliament  and  local  parlia- 
ments. The  Central  or  Federal  Parliament 
will    have    the    control    of    all    measures 


S68 


of  a  gPDeral  ""character,  as  provided  by 
the  Quebec  Conference;  but  all  matters 
of"  local  interest,  all  that  relates  to  the 
affairs  and  rights  of  the  different  sections  of 
the  Couftderacy,  will  be  reserved  for  the 
control  of  (he  local  parnaments.  The  posi- 
tion in  which  Confederation  will  place  us  is 
very  different  from  that  which  we  should 
have  occupied  under  the  system  proposed  by 
the  honorable  member,  inasmuch  as  the 
seventeen  members,  which  Upper  Canada 
will  have  more  than  Lower  Canada,  will 
have  nothing  to  do  with  our  local  affairs, 
our  religious  questions  or  particular  institu- 
tions, and  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga, 
by  his  scheme,  would  have  entrusted  all 
that  to  the  good-will  of  the  Upper  Cauadian 
majority;  but  for  my  part,  I  would  rather 
entrust  the  management  of  these  matters  to 
my  own  people  than  to  them.  As  regards 
the  seventeen  additional  members  which 
Upper  Canada  will  have  in  the  Federal  Par- 
liament, 1  am  not  alarmed  at  their  presence 
any  more  than  at  that  of  the  members  from 
the  Lower  Provinces,  because  in  Parliament 
there  will  be  no  questions  of  race,  nation- 
ality, religion  or  locality,  as  this  Legislature 
will  only  bo  charged  with  the  settlement  of 
the  great  general  questions  which  will 
interest  alike  the  whole  Confederacy  and 
not  one  locality  only.  Our  position 
then  is  excellent,  and  all  those  who 
frankly  give  expression  to  their  opinions 
must  admit  that  the  representatives  of  Lower 
Canada  at  the  Quebec  Conference  have  care- 
fully guarded  her  interests.  I  may  say  that 
the  basis  of  action  adopted  by  the  delegates, 
in  preparing  the  resolutions,  was  to  do  jus- 
tice to  all — justice  to  all  races,  to  all  reli- 
gions, to  all  nationalities,  and  to  all  interests. 
For  this  reason  the  Confederation  will  be 
accepted  by  all,  in  the  Lower  Provinces  as 
well  as  here.  Under  Confederation  there 
will  no  longer  be  domination  of  one  race  over 
another,  and  if  one  section  should  be  desirous 
of  committing  an  act  of  injustice  against 
another  .'•ection,  all  the  others  would  unite 
together  to  prevent  it.  But,  supposing  that 
an  unjust  measure  was  passed  in  the  House 
of  Commons  of  the  Federal  Legislature,  it 
would  be  stopped  in  the  Legislative  Council; 
for  there  we  shall  bo  represented  equally 
with  the  other  sections,  and  tliat  is  a  guar- 
antee that  our  interests  will  t»e  anijdy  pro- 
tected In  the  Legislutivo  Council  we  shall 
have  24  members  like  Upper  Canada  and 
tho  Lower  Provinces.     I  assert,  then,  that 


there  is  a  vast  difference  between  the  argu- 
ments of  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelasa 
and  the  measure  of  the  Grovernment ;  our 
interests  will  be  protected  by  the  Legisla- 
tive Council,  and  the  measures  of  general 
interest  will  come  under  the  jurisdiction  of 
the  Federal  Parliament.  When  the  matter 
under  consideration  is  a  great  public  enter- 
prise, such  as  a  railway,  a  canal  or  a  tele- 
graph line,  our  religious  and  national  in- 
terests will  not  be  endangered.  It  will  be  the 
duty  of  the  Central  Government  to  see  that 
the  country  prospers,  but  it  will  not  be  its 
duty  to  attack  our  religion,  our  institutions  or 
our  nationality,  which,  moreover,  as  I  have 
just  proved,  will  he  amply  protected.  While 
on  this  point,  I  will  draw  the  attention  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  to  the  fact, 
that  in  1859  he  expressed  himself  as  fol- 
lows : — 

Whatever  may  be  the  number  of  provinces  or 
of  subdivisions  which  it  may  hereafter  be  deemed 
necessary  to  adopt,  the  separating  line  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  must  be  maintained. 
In  defining  the  powers  of  the  looal  and  federal 
srovernments,  those  only  must  be  delegated  to 
the  latter  which  would  be  absolutely  necessary 
for  the  purposes  of  Confederation,  and,  as  a  neces- 
sary consequence,  reserve  to  the  subdivisions 
powei-s  as  ample  and  as  varied  as  possible.  The 
customs,  the  mail  service,  the  laws  respecting  the 
currency,  patents  and  copy-rights,  the  public 
lands,  and  such  of  the  public  wotks  as  possess 
an  interest  common  to  all  parts  of  the  country, 
ought  to  be  the  principal,  if  not  the  only  objects 
which  would  be  placed  under  the  contiol  of  the 
Federal  Government,  whilst  all  that  would  relate 
to  improvements  purely  local — to  education,  the 
administration  of  justice,  the  militia,  the  laws  of 
property,  and  of  internal  police — would  be  under 
the  control  of  the  local  governments,  whose 
powers,  in  a  word,  would  extend  to  all  matters  not 
specially  delegated  to  the  General  Government. 

Thus  wo  see  that  the  honorable  member 
was  willing  to  give  up  the  control  of  the 
public  lands  to  the  Federal  Government. 
He  considered  that  it  would  be  better  to 
leave  the  control  of  colonization  and  the 
public  lands  to  the  Federal  Government,  in 
which,  nevertheless,  he  was  prepared  to  give 
a  preponderance  to  Upper  Canada.  By  the 
plan  of  Confederation  brought  down  by  tho 
present  Government,  the  control  of  these 
matters  is  given  up  to  the  local  legislatures, 
and  I  earnestly  hope  that  tho  honorable 
member  will  not  endeavor  to  take  them  away 
and  transfer  them  to  the  control  of  the  Fed- 
eral Government.  If  his  plan  or  his  argu- 
ment had  ever  been   put  into  operation,  he 


369 


would  have   abandoned  the  control   of  our 
public  lands  to  the  British  element,  of  which 
he  now  pretends  to  stand  in  mortal  fear,     I 
repeat  the  declaration  that  it  is  impossible 
for  us  to  contkiue  in  our  present  position ;  that 
annexation   to  the  United  States  would  be 
the  greatest  disaster  that  could  befal  us;  and 
that  it  is  impossible,  that  it  would  be  dis- 
astrous to  think  of  the  independence  of  the 
country  ;  that  the  project  for  the  Confeder- 
ation of  the  two  Canadas  as  proposed  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaa-a  is  not  de- 
sirable,  and  would  not  offer  any  guarantee 
for  the   institutions   of  Lower  Canada,  but 
that  the  Confederation  of  all  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America  would  be  preferable, 
and  is  our  only  remedy.     The  Confederation 
would   have   the  effect  of  giving   us  more 
strength   than  we  now  possess ;  we  should 
form  but  one  nation,  one  country,  for  all 
general  matters  affecting  our  interests  as  a 
people.     But  when  I  speak  of  a  great  and 
powerful  nation,  far  be  it  from  me  to  wish 
that  we  should  form  an  independent  nation, 
and   that  we  should  abandon  the  protection 
of  the  British  flag;  on   the  contrary,  I  ear- 
nestly hope  that  we  shall  long  remain  under 
the  protection  of  that  flag.     What  I  would 
say  is,  that  with  Coofederation  we  shall  be 
in  a  better  position  for  self-defence,  and  to 
aid  the  Mother  Country  under   certain   exi- 
gencies, than  we  are  at  the  present  time. 
Having  Confederation,  the  Central  Grovern- 
ment  will  be  in   a  position  to  have  its  orders 
carried  out  over  its  whole  territory ;  and  when 
the  question  of  defence  comes  up,  it  will  not 
be  obliged  to   consult  four  or  five   different 
legislatures,  but  it  will  be  able  to  organize 
our  defences  immediately  and  without  ob- 
struction.    Besides,  we  shall  have  acquired 
a   standing   which    we   have   not    hitherto 
attained  in  our  relations  with  other  countries 
with  which  we  have  dealings.     It  is  of  no 
small    importance    for    the   inhabitants    of 
a   country    to    have  a   standing  in    foreign 
countries,   and   not   to    be  treated    as  men 
of  inferior  position.     When   Canadians   go 
to  London  or    elsewhere  out  of  their  own 
country,    ti.ey    have    no    recognized    posi- 
tion, because  we  are  only  a  simple  colony. 
But  under   the  Confederation  we  shall  be 
protected   by  England,  and  besides  we  shall 
have  a  position  in  foreign  lands,  the  position 
which  every  man   enjoys  who  belongs  to  a 
great  nation.     On  this  very  point  a  public 
writer  wrote  some  few  years  ago  in  a  London 
newspaper   an   article   from   which    I   will 

48 


ask  permission  to  read  an  extract  to  the 
House.  The  matter  under  consideration  was 
the  cpssion  of  the  right  of  fishery  on  the 
Banks  of  Newfoundland  by  England  to 
France.      He  says: — 

Now,  see  the  effect  of  this  want  of  association 
and  representation  here.  The  basis  of  a  treaty  is 
agreed  upon  between  Great  Britain  and  France, 
by  which  Great  Britain  agreed  to  give  to 
France  the  exclusive  right  of  fishing  upon  a  great 
portion  of  the  coast  of  Newfoundland,  a  thing 
unjustified  by  any  former  treaty.  Newfoundland 
no  sooner  heard  of  it  than  she  remonstrated,  and 
denied  the  right  of  Great  Britain  to  sign  away  to 
a  foreign  nation  the  property  of  the  people  of 
Newfoundland ;  and,  in  fact,  set  at  defiance  the 
action  of  the  Imperial  Government.  Now,  this  is 
not  only  derogatory  to  us  as  a  nation,  but  it  illus- 
trates the  danger  which  may  arise  to  the  colonies 
from  the  Imperial  Government  not  being  properly 
informed  on  such  subjects.  For,  from  a  careful 
perusal  of  all  the  treaties  on  the  subject  in 
question,  we  cannot  but  believe  that  Newfound- 
land was  right. 

It  is  evident  that,  if  the  Confederation  had 
existed  at  that  period,  England  would  not 
have  acted  without  consulting  us ;  but  in  those 
days  they  used  to  say,  "  They  are  Oanadians, 
mere  colonists,  &c.;"  and  as  we  were  then 
separated,  of  course  we  had  to  submit ;  our 
rights  were  not  protected  as  they  will  be 
when  we  are  united.  Under  Confederation, 
England  will  consult  us  in  all  matters  which 
affect  our  interests,  and  we  shall  be  able  to 
make  ourselves  effectually  heard  in  London. 
In  proof  of  this  I  cite  from  the  same 
writer : — 

Hera  is  another  question  which  ©specially  affects 
Canada.  In  the  course  of  last  year,  the  subsidy 
of  £17G,340  per  annum,  paid  to  the  Cunard 
vessels  plying  between  Liverpool  and  the  United 
States,  was  renewed  for  a  period  of  six  years  by 
the  Imperial  Government.  Another  postal  subsidy 
of  £78,000  was  just  being  granted  by  the  Imperial 
Government  to  a  new  line  of  steamers  between 
Galway  and  the  United  States,  in  this  case  also 
without  consulting  the  interests  of  British  North 
America.  This  is  a  great  injustice,  particularly 
to  Canada,  for  that  province  has  expended  large 
sums  in  the  opening  of  water  communication  in 
the  valley  of  the  River  St.  Lawrence,  canals  which 
have  become  valueless  from  having  to  compete 
with  the  United  States  routes,  encouraged  by  a 
subsidy  from  the  Imperial  Government  of  nearly 
£300,000  per  annum  ,  while  Canada  on  the  other 
hand  receives  no  aid  whatever  from  the  Imperial 
Government,  but  is  compelled  to  subsidize  a  line 
of  its  own  (to  attract  a  feeble  share  of  the  trade) 
to  the  extent  of  £50,000  per  annum." 

If   all    the    Provinces    of    British    North 
America  had  then  been  united  under  one 


370 


single  government,  we  should  have  been 
ioformed  that  the  Imperial  Government 
intended  to  make  that  treaty,  and  our  rights 
would  have  been  respected  ;  but  as  we  were 
but  a  simple  colony,  and  as  there  were  many 
interests  brought  to  bear,  we  could  do  nothing 
to  protect  ourselves.  I  do  not  desire  to 
weary  the  House  with  quotations,  but  I  trust 
I  shall  be  allowed  to  cite  another  author,  who 
in  addition  to  showing  how  limited  are  the 
objects  of  ambition  presented  to  the  inhabit- 
ants of  a  colony,  demonstrates  that,  though 
British  subjects,  we  are  almost  on  the  footing 
of  foreigners  in  England  : — 

Here  again  tbe  coaliguity  ot  the  colonies  to 
the  United  States  suggests  disagreeable  compari 
sons.  In  that  great  republic,  the  scope  for  indi- 
vidual exertion  is  immense ;  and  although  the 
rewards  ot"  success  in  the  higher  walks  of  life  are 
not  generally  so  great  as  under  most  monarchical 
governments,  some  of  the  "  prizes  open  to  all," 
in  that  country,  are  of  a  very  high  order.  Many  a 
British  North  American  has  seen  individuals  upon 
the  United  States  side  of  our  boundary,  whom  he 
knew  from  personal  acquaintance  to  be  inferior 
to  him  in  natural  abilities,  education,  wealth,  and 
social  standing,  raised  in  a  short  time  to  the  pre 
sidency  of  that  republic,  a  position  which  would 
entitle  him  to  rank  with  the  proudest  monarchs  of 
Europe.  At  the  same  time  that  British  American 
could  not  reasonably  aspire  even  to  become  the 
governor  of  his  native  province ;  and  if  he  were 
to  go  to  England,  all  the  influence  which  he  could 
command  would  probably  not  procure  him  a  pre- 
sentation to  his  Sovereign. 

Does  not  that  show  that  the  position  of  a 
Canadian,  or  of  any  other  inhabitant  of  the 
colonies,  in  England  is  a  position  of  infe- 
riority ?  We  desire  to  remove  that  infe- 
riority by  adopting  the  plan  of  Confederation 
now  submitted  to  the  House.  The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  stated  that  Confeder- 
ation had  not  been  asked  for  by  the  people, 
but  that  it  was  adopted  as  the  last  resource 
of  a  falling  party.  He  referred,  of  course, 
when  he  expressed  that  opinion,  to  the  vote 
of  censure  he  had  proposed  last  year  against 
the  Tach6-Macdonald  Ministry.  After 
all  his  eilbrts  against  that  ministry,  the 
honorable  gentleman  could  do  no  more  than 
reproach  them  with  an  act  committed,  or 
supposed  to  have  been  commitlod,  five  years 
before  by  another  government ;  and  by  that 
means  he  had  succeeded  in  overthrowing  the 
miuiutry.  The  result  of  the  vote,  brought 
about  by  the  lionorable  member,  was  very 
dillereui  from  what  ho  expected  ;  it  resulted 
in  the  Coalition,  and  the  project  of  Confeder- 
ation now  before  the  Uomse.     Tho  huuorabla 


gentleman  says  that  the  people  have  not 
asked  for  it,  but  when  the  Government 
announced  to  the  House  that  the  basis  upon 
which  the  new  ministry  had  been  formed 
was  the  Confederation  of  the  provinces,  the 
opposition  did  not  declare  that  the  measure 
was  a  bad  one.  On  the  contrary,  the  great 
majority  of  the  members  from  Upper  and 
from  Lower  Canada  pronounced  themselves 
in  favor  of  the  plan,  and  promised  their 
support  to  the  Government.  The  honorable 
gentleman  also  asks,  who  empowered  the 
delegates  to  meet  and  prepare  a  plan  of 
Confederation,  and  submit  it  to  this  House  ? 
I  answer,  that  the  power  was  derived  from 
the  expressed  sentiments  of  the  House  when 
it  consented  to  the  formation  of  the  Govern- 
ment on  that  basis.  The  Government  felt 
that  they  had  a  perfect  right  not  only  to 
assist  at  the  Quebec  Conference,  but  to  bring 
it  about.  And  even  though  there  had  been 
no  other  reason  but  the  dilhculties  which  had 
arisen  in  Canada  some  years  before ;  even 
though  there  had  been  no  other  reason  than 
the  care  of  the  interests  of  the  country,  we 
should  have  been  justified  thereby  in  assist- 
ing at  the  Charlottetown  Conference,  and  in 
calling  the  Quebec  (/onference,  at  which  the 
measure  was  adopted  by  the  thirty-three 
delegates.  The  honorable  gentleman  let  fall 
the  accusation  that  we  consented  that 
Canada  should  have  but  one  vote  in  the 
Conference.  In  making  a  charge  against 
the  Government,  as  leader  of  the  Opposition, 
the  honorable  gentleman  ought  to  have 
sought  to  base  it  on  more  correct  information. 

Hon.  iMr.  DOKION — I  understood  it  to 
be  so,  from  what  the  President  of  the 
Council  stated. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVLN— Canada 
had  more  than  one  vote ;  and  the  President 
of  the  Council  never  stated  the  contrary. 

Hon.  Mil.  I)0ilL02^ — How  many  were 
there  'i     Two  ? 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANG EVIxV— Yes, 
two  j  one  lor  Upper  and  one  for  Lower 
Canada.  We  could  have  had  more,  but  that 
was  not  the  question.  We  did  not  go  to  the 
Conference  to  diacuss  simple  matters  of 
form,  nor  did  we  go  there  to  force  our  views 
upon  others;  wo  desired  to  come  to  an  uudur- 
staudiug  with  the  Lower  Provinces.  It  waa 
not  our  object  to  frame  a  leeblu  and  unjust 
Constitution,  destined,  from  the  very  fuel,  to 
last  but  a  day.  Hcuue  it  would  not  have 
been  right,  and  we  did  not  desire  to  tuko 
advantage  of    our  povitiou,  but  wo  treated 


S71 


with  the  provinces  on  a  footing  of  equality, 
not  wishing  to  force  our  views  upon  them, 
but  anxious  to  come  to  an  understanding, 
and  to  extend  justice  to  all. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  statement  I 
made  is  not  denied,  that  the  votes  were  given 
by  provinces. 

Hon.  Solicitor  Gen.  L ANGEVIN— It 
is  true ;  the  Lower  Provinces  had  each  one 
vote,  as  had  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  and 
it  is  for  us  a  matter  for  congratulation.  I 
may  be  permitted  to  remind  the  House,  in 
connection  with  this  matter,  of  the  saying  of 
the  first  Napoleon  to  one  of  his  ambassa- 
dors, whom  he  sent  to  a  prince  who  was 
feeble,  poor,  and  without  an  army — that 
prince  was  the  Pope :  "  Treat  with  him  as  if 
he  had  an  army  of  two  hundred  thousand 
men  at  his  back  !  "  Now,  that  is  what  we 
did ;  we  treated  Nova  Scotia,  New  Bruns- 
wick and  the  other  provinces  as  we  desired 
to  be  treated  ourselves,  that  is  to  say,  with 
justice  and  consideration,  and  the  result 
shews  that  we  were  right.  The  honorable 
gentleman  ought  to  have  confined  himself  to 
publishing,  in  his  own  way,  the  secrets  of 
the  Conference,  and  refrain  from  divulging 
those  of  the  committee  appointed  last  year 
with  respect  to  constitutional  difficulties.  I 
understood  that  everything  was  to  have 
remained  secret  in  that  committee,  except 
the  report  made  to  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Does  the  hon. 
gentleman  accuse  me  of  divulging  the  secrets 
of  that  committee  ? 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— The 
hon.  gentleman  stated  that  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  (Hon.  J.  A.  Macdonald)  had 
constantly  acted  and  voted  in  that  committee 
against  the  Confederation  project,  and  that 
now  he  presents  one  himself;  and  I  maintain 
that  he  ought  not  to  have  said  that,  for  the 
action  of  the  members  of  the  committee 
was  to  have  remained  secret.  If  the  deliber- 
ations of  the  committee  were  to  have 
remained  secret,  the  hon.  gentleman  must 
see  that  he  is  in  a  difficult  position.  The 
object  of  that  secrecy  is  evident;  it  was  the 
same  object  we  had  in  view  in  preserving 
secrecy  in  the  proceedings  of  the  Quebec 
Conference ;  to  give  increased  freedom  of 
opinion  to  each  member,  and  not,  as  has  been 
said,  to  deprive  the  people  of  information  to 
which  they  were  entitled.  We  knew  that  if 
our  proceedings  were  presented  day  by  day 
to  the  people,  through  the  press,  we  should 
not  have  enjoyed  that  liberty  of  action  and 


of  discus&ion  which  we  required.  It  is  easy 
to  understand,  that  during  the  deliberations, 
a  member  might  one  day  pronounce  against 
a  resolution  or  some  important  point,  and 
that  the  arguments  of  another  member  in  a 
contrary  sense  might  make  him  change  his 
opinion  ;  but  that  this  might  be,  it  was  neces- 
sary to  be  free  from  all  outside  influence,  and 
therefore  it  was  that  the  Conference  sat  with 
closed  doors. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Will  the  hon. 
member  allow  me  to  say  a  few  words  ?  He 
has  stated  that  I  divulged  the  secrets  of  the 
committee  on  sectional  difficulties.  I  assert 
that  I  never  attended  the  sittings  of  that 
committee,  that  I  merely  went  there  on  the 
first  day  to  state  that  I  would  not  take  part 
in  its  proceedings,  and  that  I  then  withdrew 
and  did  not  again  attend.  I  was  opposed  to 
the  proceedings  of  that  committee,  and  I  did 
not  attend  it;  but  I  learned  that  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  voted,  on  the  last  day  the 
committee  sat,  against  Confederation;  and 
that  was  all  I  stated.  So  that  if  the  secrets 
of  the  committee  have  been  revealed,  it  has 
not  been  done  by  me. 

Hon.  xMr.  CAUCHON.— The  hon.  mem- 
ber for  Hochelaga  has  quite  forgotten  what 
passed  in  the  committee.  He  was  present, 
with  the  hon.  member  for  Chateauguay  (Hon. 
Mr.  Holton),  at  the  commencement  of  the 
proceedings  of  the  committee,  when  it  was 
stated  and  agreed  that  everything  that  passed 
in  the  committee  was  to  be  kept  SQcret.  I 
admit  that  the  hon.  gentleman  refused  •  to 
take  part  in  the  proceedings  of  the  commit- 
tee, but  at  the  same  time  he  knew  perfectly 
well  that  they  were  to  be  secret,  and  he  was 
bound  to  respect  that  secrecy.  He  was  aware 
that  the  representatives  of  the  press  had 
been  excluded. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION.— The  hon.  gentle- 
man is  entirely  mistaken,  for  I  was  not 
present. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN.— The 
hon.  member  for  Hochelega  must  understand 
that  not  being  myself  a  member  of  that  com- 
mittee, and  knowing  that  he  was  a  member  of 
it,  and  that  it  had  been  stated  in  the  House 
that  the  proceedings  were  to  be  secret,  I  was 
perfectly  justified  in  blaming  him  for  having 
spoken. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION.— I  never  knew  that 
the  proceedings  of  the  committee  were  to 
DG  sGcrct 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN.— I  knew 
it,   and   I   feel  that   I  was  perfectly  justi- 


372 


fied  in  saying  what  I  said  ;  but  after  the 
explanations  which  the  hon.  gentleman  has 
just  given,  I  cannot  accuse  him  of  having 
done  it  otherwise  than  inadvertently.  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  stated  that 
the  memorial  submitted  by  the  Government 
at  the  time  of  its  formation  spoke  of  a  Con- 
federation other  than  the  one  which  it  now 
proposes.  It  will  be  well  to  refer  to  the  docu- 
ment in  question  in  order  to  ascertain  its 
contents.  The  memorial  coopists  of  two 
parts,  of  which  the  following  is  the  first : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  state  that 
immediately  after  the  prorogation,  they  will 
address  themselves,  in  the  most  earnest  manner, 
to  the  negotiation  for  a  Confederation  of  all  the 
British  North  American  Provinces. 

That  failing  a  successful  issue  to  such  negoti- 
•itions,  they  are  prepared  to  yiledge  themselves  to 
legislation,  during  the  next  session  of  Parliament, 
for  the  purpose  of  remedying  existing  difficulties 
by  introducing  the  Federal  principle  for  Canada 
alone,  coupled  with  such  provisions  as  will  permit 
the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North-Western 
territory  to  be  hereafter  incorporated  into  the 
Canadian  system. 

In  other  words,  the  Government  promises, 
in  the  first  part  of  the  memorial  in  question, 
to  direct  its  attention  to  a  Confederation  of 
all  the  British  North  American  Provinces; 
and,  in  the  event  of  its  not  succeeding  in 
carrying  out  that  object,  to  turn  its  attention 
to  a  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas.  And 
now  here  are  the  contents  of  the  second 
part : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  pledge  them- 
selves to  bring  in  a  measure,  next  session,  for  the 
purpose  of  removing  existing  difficulties,  by  intro- 
ducing the  Federal  principle  into  Canada,  coupled 
with  such  provision  as  will  permit  the  Maritime 
Provinces  and  the  North-West  territory  to  be  in- 
corporated into  the  same  lystem  of  government. 

And  the  Governmant  will  seek,  by  sending 
representatives  to  the  Lower  Provinces  and  to 
England,  to  secure  the  assent  of  those  interests 
which  are  beyond  the  control  of  our  own  legis- 
lation, to  such  a  measure  as  may  enable  all 
British  North  America  to  be  united  under  a 
General  Legislature  based  upon  thn  Federal 
principle. 

Veil,  where  h  the  contradiction  between 
these  promises  and  the  present  action  of  the 
Government  ?  We  begin  with  a  pl.m  nf 
Confederation  for  the  two  Canadas,  and  sub- 
sequently, finding  that  the  IMaritime  Pro- 
vinces arc  ready  to  enter  upon  the  con.sidora- 
tion  of  a  more  extenuivc  union,  wo  have 
made  arrangemonls  to  bring  tlicm  ut  once 
into  the  Confederation,     'fhero  in  no  contra- 


diction in  that,  but  it  is  the  same  measure 
and   the   same  plan  ;   the  only  difference  is, 
that,   instead    of  admitting   them    into   the 
union  some  six  or  nine  months  hence,  we 
have     admitted     them    at     once.       When 
we    approached    the    question,    we    found 
the   Maritime  Provinces  in   process  of   de- 
libcratiijg    upon    a    union    amongst    them- 
selves ;     but    the    Charlottetown    delegates 
peiceivod  that  the  Confederation  which  we 
proposed   to    them   would   bo   much    more 
advantageous  to  all   the  provinces  than  that 
upon  which  they  were  engaged,  and  they  at 
once    consented   to  accept  our  proposition. 
Accordingly  they  came  to  Quebec,  and  the 
result  of  their  visit  was  the  plan  which   has 
been  submitted    to   this  House.     The  hon. 
member    for   Hochelaga   has,   therefore,  no 
right  to  reproach  us  with  having  altered  the 
plan  promised  to  the  House,  since  it  is  word 
for   word    that  which   we   promised.     This 
measure,  as    I  observed  a  short  time   ago, 
cannot  last,  unless  it  protects  the  interests 
of  all.     Now,  we  have  different  interests  in 
Lower  Canada,  in  which  reside  two  popula- 
tions differing  in  origin,  differing  in  religion, 
and  speaking  different  languages.     On  the 
other  hand,  tipper  Canada  has  a  homogeneous 
population,    but    one    professing    different 
religions,  and   so  it  is  with   respect   to  the 
several  Maritime  Provinces.     In  these  latter 
provinces,  also,  we  have  more  than  one  hun- 
dred thousand  fellow  countrymen  of  French 
origin.     Well,  -Mr.  Speaker,  wo  have  taken 
care  to  protect  these  different  interests,  and 
to  preserve  the  rights  of  this  population,  by 
uniting  them  in  the  Confederation  to  a  peo- 
ple numbering  a   million  souls  of  the  same 
origin    as  themselves.       But  we  are    t  Id  : 
"  You  wish  to  form  a  new  nationality."     Let 
us  come  to  an  understanding  on  this  word, 
Mr.  Speaker.     What  we  desire  and  wish, 
i.><  to  defend  the  general  interests  of  a  great 
country  and  of  a  powerful  nation,  by  moans 
of  a  central  power.     On  the  other  hatid.we 
do  not  wihh  to  do  away  with  our  different 
customs,  manners  and  laws  ;  on  the  contrary, 
those  are  precisely  what  we  are  desirous  of 
protecting    in     the  most    oomploto  manner 
by  moans   of    (!oufoderat;on.       Under    the 
new  Hystcni   there   will    bo  no  more  roason 
than   at  presout    to  lose   our    cliaracter   as 
French  or  Knglisli,  under  tho   pretait  that 
we  should  all    have   the    same    genortd    in- 
tort'Hts  ;  and  our  intorist.H  ii  relulion  to  race, 
religion  and   natiunality  will  remain  as  they 


373 


are  at  the  present  time.  But  they  will  be 
better  protected  under  the  proposed  system, 
and  that  again  is  one  of  the  strongest  reasons 
in  favor  of  Confederation.  Not  only  indeed 
did  we  assure  ourselves  of  that  protection, 
but  the  provinces  who  were  parties  to  the 
Confederation  desired  it  also.  All  local 
interests  will  be  submitted  and  left  to  the  de- 
cision of  the  local  legislatures.  There  will 
be  other  exceptions  with  respect  to  Lower 
Canada,  and,  in  fact,  all  the  exceptions  in 
the  scheme  of  Confederation  are  in  favor  of 
Lower  Canada.  These  restrictions  in  favor 
of  Lower  Canada  were  obtained  by  the 
delegates  from  that  province  ;  but  they  seek 
no  thanks  for  their  conduct,  as  they  eou- 
sider  that  in  so  doing  they  only  performed 
a  duty — a  duty  incumbent  oq  all  true  patriots 
and  good  citizens.  All  that  they  now  come 
to  this  House  and  ask  for,  is  its  sanction 
to  the  measure  which  ensures  these  privi- 
leges to  the  populations  which  they  repre- 
sent. I  may  add  that,  under  Confederation, 
all  questions  relating  to  the  colonization  of  our 
wild  lands,  and  the  disposition  and  sale  of 
those  same  lands,  our  civil  laws  and  all 
measures  of  a  local  i  ature — in  fast  everv- 
thing  which  concerns  and  affects  those  in- 
terests which  are  most  dear  to  us  as  a 
people,  will  be  reserved  for  the  action  of 
our  local  legislature  ;  all  our  charitable  and 
other  institutions  will  be  protected  by  the 
same  authority.  There  is  also  the  question 
of  education.  Upon  this  question,  as  upon  all 
others,  the  Lower  Canadian  delegates  have 
seeu  to  the  preservation  of  certain  privileges, 
and  that  question  has  been  left  to  our  Local 
Legislature,  so  that  the  Federal  Legislature 
shall  not  be  able  to  interfere  with  it.  It  has 
been  said  that  with  respect  to  agriculture  ti.e 
power  of  legislation  would  be  exercised  con- 
currently by  the  Federal  Legislature  and  the 
local  legislatures.  But  the  House  is  perfectly 
well  aware  for  what  reason  that  concurrent 
power  was  allowed.  Every  one,  indeed,  is 
aware  that  certain  general  interests  may  arise 
respecting  which  the  interveutiou  of  the 
Central  Legislature  maybe  necessary;  but, 
Mr.  SPEAKt-R,  all  interests  relating  to  local 
agriculture,  everything  connected  with  our 
land  will  be  left  under  the  control  of  our 
Lower  Canadian  Legislature,  and  this  is  a 
point  upon  which  we  invariab  y  insisted,  and 
which  was  never  denied  us  in  the  Couference. 
It  is  thus  clear  that  under  Confederation  as 
proposed,  the  inhabitants  of  distant  parts  of 
the  Confederacy,  having  the  privilege  of 
laying  their  claims  before  their  respective 


local  legislatures,  will  not  be  put  to  the  great 
trouble  of  betaking  themselves  to  the  central 
seat  of  government,  when,  for  instance,  they 
wish  to  obtain  authority  to  build  a  bridge  or 
open  a  road.  I  now  come,  Mr.  Speaker,  to 
the  subject  of  the  details  of  the  measure,  and 
I  shall  reply  to  the  observation  of  the  honor- 
able member  for  Hochelaga  on  that  subject. 
That  honorable  gentleman  objects  to  the 
appointment  of  the  legislative  councillors 
by  the  Central  Grovernmeut,  and  adds  that 
those  councillors  will  be  appointed  by  a  Tory 
government,  and  will  necessarily  be  selected 
from  among  the  tories.  In  making  that 
assertion  the  honorable  member  did  not  act 
with  that  fi'ankness  which  we  are  entitled  to 
expect  from  him.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  hardly 
alluded,  if  he  did  so  at  all,  to  the  clause 
in  the  resolutions  by  which  the  opposition, 
in  the  different  parts  of  the  Confederation, 
are  protected.  In  that  clause  it  is  provided 
that  the  Central  Parliament,  in  making 
the  appointments  in  question,  shall  be 
careful  to  watch  over  the  interests  of  the  Op- 
position, as  well  as  over  those  of  the  Ministerial 
party.  Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  when  a  govern- 
ment binds  itself  in  this  way,  is  it  reasonable 
and  fair  to  believe  or  to  suppose  that  it  wiU 
break  its  word  which  has  been  so  solemnly 
pledged  ?  For  my  part,  I  am  convinced  that 
the  members  of  the  present  Government, 
should  they  form  part  of  the  Central  Gov- 
ernment, would  fulfil  what  has  been  promised, 
and  would  watch  over  the  rights  of  the  Oppo- 
sition as  over  those  of  the  other  party.  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  also  pre- 
tended that  the  Maritime  Provinces  had 
forced  upon  us  the  clause  which  provides 
that  the  legislative  councillors  in  the  Gen- 
eral Parliament  shall  be  appointed  by  the 
Crown.  Yet,  the  honorable  member  right 
well  knows  that  the  elective  principle  in 
our  existing  Legislative  Council  was  mere- 
ly an  experiment,  and  that  in  Lower  Ca- 
nada we  have  become  tired  of  the  system, 
not  because  the  councillors  who  have  been 
elected  by  the  people  are  unworthy  of  the 
position  which  they  occupy,  or  because  their 
selection  was  an  unfortunate  selection,  but 
because  the  very  nature  of  the  system  prevents 
a  large  number  of  men  of  talent,  of  men 
qualified  in  every  respect  and  worthy  to  sit  in 
the  Legislative  Council,  from  presenting  them- 
selves for  the  suffrages  of  the  electors,  in  con- 
sequence of  the  trouble,  the  fatigue  and  enor- 
mous expense  resulting  from  these  electoral 
contests  in  enormous  divisions.  We  know 
that  the  system  has  wearied  Lower  Canada, 


374, 


and  that  that  province  will  approve  of  our 
having  inserted  the  clause  in  question  in 
the  resolutions.  The  vote  which  took  place 
last  night  in  another  place,  shews  that  1  am 
not  mistaken  in  what  I  assert  on  this  Buhject. 
One  of  the  greatest  ohjections  which  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  raises  to  the 
appointment  of  the  legislative  councillors  by 
the  Crown,  is  that  their  number  will  be  fixed, 
and  that,  by  consequence,  it  will  prove  an 
obstacle  to  the  decisions  and  legislation  of  the 
Commons  House  of  the  Federal  Parliament. 
In  a  word,  the  honorable  member  declares  that 
the  Legislative  Council,  so  constituted,  will 
be,  to  use  an  English  expression,  a  nuisance. 
The  honorable  member  should  glance  back  at 
the  past  to  consider  how  many  councillors  ap- 
pointed for  life  there  were  in  the  Legislative 
Council  at  the  time  of  the  concession  of  the 
elective  principle,  and  how  many  of  those  said 
councillors  remain  at  the  present  day.  He 
would  have  ascertained  that  in  eight  years  the 
number  had  diminished  by  one-half.  Of  the 
forty-two  or  forty-three  members  which  there 
were  then,  there  now  remain  but  twenty-one 
or  twenty-two.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honor- 
able member  for  Hochelaga  should  also  have 
admitted  that  in  those  eight  years  there  had 
been  such  considerable  changes  among  the 
elected  councillors,  that  there  was  no  danger 
of  the  Legislative  Council  not  being  at  least 
accessible  to  the  people.  This  diminution 
gives  an  average  of  three  members  a-year, 
and  if  we  take  the  proportion  between  this 
diminution  and  that  which  would  necessarily 
prevail  among  a  larger  number  of  councillors, 
we  shall  find  that  there  will  be  at  least  five 
vacancies  in  each  year.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber must  then  perceive  that,  if  it  should  hap- 
pen that  the  Legislative  Council  should  be  so 
opposed  to  the  views  of  the  Lower  House  as 
systematically  to  reject  the  measures  of  the 
popular  branch  of  the  Legislature,  at  the  end 
of  a  year  or  perhaps  less,  such  changes  would 
be  effected  by  death  or  otherwise,  that  we 
should  immediately  have  such  an  infusion  of 
new  blood,  that  any  attempt  of  this  kind 
could  not  be  repeated  for  a  long  time. 
Besides,  the  Legislative  Council  will  not  con- 
stitute a  separate  class  like  the  House  of 
Lords  in  England.  The  councillors  will  come 
from  among  the  people,  with  whom  they  will 
have  interests  in  common,  and  it  is  absurd  to 
suppose  that  they  will  be  induced  to  oppose 
systematically  and  constantly  the  measures 
which  the  ]i0wcr  House  may  enact  in  favor 
of  the  people  an<l  at  their  instance.  Tlic  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga,  when  on  thig  subject, 


reproached  the  Attorney  General  for  Upper 
Canada  with  ha\dng  stated  in  his  opening 
speech,  that  if  he  had  to  preside  over  the 
selection  of  the  legislative  councillors,  he 
would  see  that  the  best  qualified  men  were  ap- 
pointed. Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  see  nothing 
in  that  declaration  which  Ls  not  in  the  most 
perfect  accordance  with  the  interests  of  the 
country,  and  it  is  important  that  the  best  men 
from  each  section  of  the  Confederacy  should 
be  called  to  sit  in  this  important  branch  of 
our  General  Legislature.  The  honorable 
member  has  taken  occasion  to  find  fault  with 
the  clause  of  the  resolutions  which  provides 
that  the  lieutenant-governors  shall  be  appoint- 
ed by  the  Central  Government,  and  sees  in  it 
great  danger,  especially  to  Lower  Canada. 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  should  very  much  like  to 
know  what  protection  the  population  of  the 
different  provinces  derive  from  the  fact  that 
the  governors  of  the  British  North  American 
Provinces  are  sent  out  to  us  from  England. 
Under  the  existing  system,  our  governor  is 
responsible  neither  to  the  people  nor  to  the 
House ;  he  depends  entirely  upon  the  Eng- 
lish Government,  to  whieh  he  is  responsible. 
Under  the  system  proposed  the  lieutenant- 
governors  will  be  appointed  by  the  Central 
Government,  to  which  they  will  necessarily  be 
responsible  for  their  actions.  And  in  that 
Government  we  shall  have  more  than  one  vote ; 
we  shall  be  represented  in  it  by  our  ministers, 
who  will  be  there  to  cause  every  encroachment 
or  arbitrary  act  which  the  lieutenant-governor 
may  allow  himself  to  commit,  to  be  condemn- 
ed. If  the  Central  Government  should  refuse 
to  do  us  this  justice,  and  should  persist  in  not 
recalling  any  lieutenant-governor  who  should 
have  so  failed  in  his  duty  to  the  population 
which  he  governed,  we  should  have  our  sixty- 
five  representatives  to  protest  and  to  vote  at 
need  against  a  government  which  should  dare 
to  act  in  such  a  way.  In  that  respect  we 
should  have  much  better  guarantees  than  at 
present ;  and  in  very  truth  this  is  a  new  privi- 
lege that  we  have  obtained,  as  the  people  will 
have  a  voice  in  these  appointments,  from  the 
fact  that  we  shall  have  our  responsible  minis- 
ters in  the  Central  Government,  who  will  be 
sustained  and  supixirtcd  by  the  members  from 
our  section.  lu  allusion  to  the  appointment 
of  the  lieutoiiant-governors,  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  tliought  proper  to 
make  a  violent  attack  upon  the  Conservative 
party.  He  asserted  that  that  party  continu- 
ally sought  to  diminish  the  liberties  and  the 
privileges  of  the  people,  whilst  the  Liberal 
party  labored  to  extend  and  ensure  those  same 


375 


liberties.  Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  believe  the 
people  kuow  tlieir  interests  as  well  as  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga,  and  that  they 
will  not  heap  reproaches  upon  us  for  having 
given  them  a  Constitution,  the  object  of  which 
is  to  protect  their  local  and  general  rights  in  a 
much  more  eflFectual  manner  than  they  are 
protected  under  the  present  system.  While 
thus  attacking  the  Conservative  party,  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  did  not 
neglect  also  to  make  a  slight  insinuation  against 
the  delegates  to  the  Conference.  In  fact,  he 
says  : — 

The  Speaker  of  the  Legislative  Council  will 
also  be  appointed  by  the  Crown.  This  is  another 
retrograde  step,  and  a  bit  of  patronage  more  for 
the  Goverament.  We  have  all  heard  talk  of  a 
speech  delivered  lately  in  the  Island  of  Prince 
Edward  or  in  New  Brunswick — I  forget  which — m 
which  the  speaker  enumerated  the  advantages 
which  had  been  flashed  in  the  eyes  of  the  delegates, 
while  they  were  here,  in  the  shape  of  appointm  nts 
which  were  to  be  looked  for,  as  those  of  judges 
in  the  Court  of  Appeals,  of  Speaker  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council,  of  local  governorships,  as  one  of 
the  causes  of  the  unanimity  which  prevailed 
among  the  members  of  the  Conference. 

The  honorable  member  must  have  a  very  mean 
opinion  of  human  nature,  to  suppose  that  pub- 
lic men,  having  such  great  interests  entrusted 
to  them,  and  their  own  and  their  country's 
honor  to  guard  and  to  keep  pure  and  unsullied 
in  the  eyes  of  the  world,  would  agree  to  betray 
and  deliver  up  their  country  for  the  love  of  a 
poor  appointment,  even  if  it  were  the  post  of 
lieutenant-governor  or  of  chief  justice.  I  am 
willing  to  believe  that  that  insinuation  was  a 
slip  of  the  tongue,  and  that  he  is  already  sorry 
that  it  ever  escaped  from  his  lips.  Another 
point  on  which  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  enlarged,  is  the  militia  question  and 
the  defence  of  the  country.  On  this  head, 
the  honorable  member  declares  that  he  eannot 
understand  how  the  union  of  the  provinces  is 
to  increase  our  strength.  The  experience  of 
the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  and  the 
teachings  of  history  ought,  however,  to  have 
taught  him  that  a  disunited  people,  scattered 
over  a  vast  extent  of  territory,  must  be  an 
easier  conquest  than  one  which  is  united  under 
a  single  strong  and  respected  government. 
This  brings  me  to  speak  of  another  observation 
made  by  the  honorable  member,  who  declared 
that  our  best  policy,  in  order  to  avoid  all  diffi- 
culty with  our  neighbors,  and  escape  the  evils 
of  a  war,  would  be  to  remain  quiet  and  sit 
with  our  arms  across.  The  House  will  permit 
me  to  quote  the  very  expressions  of  the  honor- 
able member  on  this  subject  ;— 


in 


It  would  be  a  piece  of  folly  for  ua  to  raise  a 
standing  army,  by  way  of  keeping  off  an  invasion 
of  our  frontier.  Our  best  plan  is  to  remain  quiet, 
and  to  give  no  pretext  to  our  neighbors  for 
making  war  on  us.  Let  a  healthy  state  of  pubHc 
opinion  be  our  shield  ;  let  not  the  press  violently 
assail  the  northern  authorities ;  then  if  war  comes 
without  any  fault  of  ours,  it  will  be  our  duty  to  do 
our  best  to  assist  the  Mother  Country  in  the 
struggle  which  would  ensue. 

I  think,  as  the  honorable  member  does,  that 
we  ought  not  to  give  any  just  cause  of  dissatis- 
faction to  our  neighbors,  and  still  less  attack 
their  frontier;  and  the  present  Government 
have  given  proof,  on  all  occasions,  that  they 
are  disposed  to  respect  the  rights  and  opinions 
of  the  American  people.  But,  on  the  other 
hand,  the  honorable  member  is  the  first  to 
inform  us  that  the  best  means  of  defending 
ourselves  is,  not  to  be  ready  and  accustomed 
to  the  use  of  arms,  but  to  remain  unarmed 
with  our  arms  across  like  men  of  peace 
plain  terms,  to  give  ourselves  up,  bound  hand 
and  foot.  Now,  I  will  ask  him  a  plain  ques- 
tion. If  he  were  apprehensive  of  an  attack 
from  a  neighbor  of  his,  would  he  go  to  him 
and  say,  "  Here  1  am,  do  what  you  please  with 
me,"  or  would  he  not  rather  be  prepared  to 
meet  an  attack  ?  I  rather  think  that  the 
honorable  member  would  not  be  long  in  making 
up  his  mind  as  to  which  course  he  would 
take.  Now,  that  which  is  wise  and  politic  in 
an  individual  is  equally  wise  and  politic  in 
the  case  of  a  nation.  We  are  not  desirous  of 
assuming  a  threatening  attitude  towards  our 
neighbors.  On  the  contrary,  our  wish  is  to 
live  with  them  in  peace  and  quietness.  We 
are  anxious  not  to  do  the  least  act  which  can 
be  construed  into  a  threat ;  but  we  should  be 
lamentably  blind  if,  with  the  enormous  mili- 
tary armament  of  our  neighbors  before  our 
eyes,  we  looked  at  this  formidable  military 
display  with  our  arms  across,  and  a  careless 
disregard  of  its  greatness  in  our  hearts.  Such 
an  attitude  would  neither  be  patriotic  nor 
worthy  of  a  nation  of  free  men.  The  most 
certain  way  to  avoid  an  attack  and  subjugation 
by  our  neighbors,  to  have  our  independence 
and  our  privileges  respected,  is  to  shew  them 
that  we  are  prepared  to  defend  them  at  any 
cost.  The  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
has  declared  that  he  is  prepared  to  make  some 
sacrifices  to  defend  the  country,  but  he  has 
not  told  us  how  much  he  is  ready  to  do  in 
that  behalf.  Perhaps  he  will  let  us  know  at 
a  future  time,  if  we  are  called  upon  to  spend 
money  for  the  purpose.  However  tl^at  may 
be,  I  must  animadvert  on  the  remarks  which 
he  has  made  with  regard  to  the  volunteers. 


376 


Speaking  of  ,the  expense  which  the  Govern- 
ment were  incurring  for  the  defence  of  the 
frontier,  he  said  that  30,000  militiamen  would 
cost  thirty  millions  of  dollars  I  The  honorable 
member  has  a  singular  way  of  calculating. 
The  fact  is,  if  we  were  under  the  necessity  of 
raising  an  army  of  30,000  men,  we  should  not 
pay  them  at  the  rate  of  a  dollar,  nor  even 
three-quarters  of  a  dollar,  a  head.  The  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  knows  as  well 
ai  I  do  that  the  militia  force  now  on  foot  and 
doing  duty  at  the  frontier,  or  in  garrison  in 
the  interior,  was  called  out  in  circumstances 
altogether  exceptional,  and  that  the  Govern- 
ment were  quite  unable  to  control,  to  the 
extent  they  would  perhaps  have  desired,  the 
rate  of  pay  which  was  to  be  allowed.  The 
honorable  member  must  likewise  be  aware 
that  those  brave  militiamen  gave  the  greatest 
proof  of  their  love  of  country,  and  in  many 
cases  made  very  great  sacrifices  to  the  detri- 
ment of  tlieir  own  interest  and  that  of  their 
families.  Many  of  them  were  employds  in 
commercial  houses,  some  in  counting-houses, 
others  in  workshops,  which  gave  them  much 
higher  remuneration  than  they  are  now  re- 
ceiving from  the  Government,  and  I  consider 
it  very  bad  taste  indeed  that  any  should 
grudge  them  their  paltry  pay,  under  the  pie- 
tenoe  that  it  will  be  a  heavy  item  on  the 
budget.  (Hear,  hear.)  They  did  not  hesi- 
tate, when  the  country  claimed  their  services, 
to  risk  their  health  and  to  give  up  the  comforts 
and  delights  of  home,  and  I  am  well  assured 
that  the  people  wUl  not  grudge  them  the  mis- 
erable half  crown  which  they  receive  in  ex- 
change, and  will  approve  of  what  the  Govern- 
ment has  done  under  the  circumstances.  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  reproaches 
the  Government  with  another  misdeed. 
The  truth  is  that  he  finds  something  wrong, 
Borne  short-coming,  in  every  actiou  of  the 
present  Administration.  Accordingly,  allud- 
ing to  the  right  of  veto  permitted  to  the 
General  Government,  the  honorable  member 
expresses  liiinself  in  this  manner:  "Thus,  if 
a  measure  were  piissed  by  a  majority  of  a 
local  legislature,  and  if,  nevertheless,  the  ma- 
jority of  the  section  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment representing  that  particular  ^jrovinoe 
were  opposed  to  it,  would  not  that  section  use 
all  their  influence  in  ti)o  General  Guvernment 
to  throw  out  that  measure  ?"  Before  answer- 
ing the  honorable  member,  Mr.  Spkaker,  1 
think  it  will  be  well  to  refer  to  the  two  clauses 
which  relate  to  that  matter.  In  these  clauses 
we  find? — 

1.  Any  liill  of  tho  Genoral  Parliament  may  b« 


reserved  in  th«  usual  manner  for  Her  Majesty's 
assent,  and  any  bill  of  the  local  legislatures  may, 
in  like  manner,  be  reserwd  for  the  cousideration 
of  the  Governor  General. 

2.  Any  bill  passed  by  the  General  Parliament 
shall  be  subject  to  disallowance  by  Her  Majesty 
within  two  years,  as  iu  the  case  of  bills  passed 
by  the  legislatarea  of  the  said  provinces  hitherto  ; 
and,  in  like  manner,  any  bill  passed  by  a  local 
legidialure  shall  be  subject  to  disallowance  by  the 
Governor  General  within  one  year  after  the  pass- 
ing thereof. 

Well,   I  ask  the  House,  what  is  wrong  in 
those  two  clauses  ?     At  present,  what  is  our 
position  when  a  bill  has  passed  the  two  Houses 
of  our  Legislature  ?     It  is  this  :    the  bill  is 
submitted  for  the  sanction  of  the  Governor 
General,  and  in  nearly  all  cases  is  sanctioned 
without  being  referred  to  the  Imperial  Otov- 
ernment.     But  if,  for  instance,  the  bill  relates 
to  a  divorce,  or  to  any  question  which  con- 
cems  the  Imperial  Government,    or  if  again 
it  ia  a  measure  aflfecting  our  relations  with 
our  neighbors  or  any  other  nation,  it  is  then 
reserved  for  Her  Majesty's  sanction.     When 
a  measure  is  thus  reserved,  does  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  suppose  that  the  mem- 
bers of  the  English  Government  meet  to  take 
it  into  consideration  ?     Not  at  all ;  there  is 
in  the  Colonial  Office  a  second  or  a  third  class 
clerk  whose  particular  business  it  is,  and  who 
makes  his  report  to  the  minister.    This  report 
decides  either  the  sanction  or  tho  disallowance 
of  the  measure  in  question.     If  tho  measure 
is  highly  interesting  to  the  country  and  ia 
disallowed,  we  cannot  blame  any  one  and  must 
submit,  as   the  English  ministry  are  not  res- 
ponsible  to  us.       Under  the   Confederation 
this  danger  and  inconvenience  will  no  longer 
exist.    In  a  case  wherein  the  Local  Government 
of  Lower  Canada  should  pas.s  a  law  which  the 
Lieutenantr-Govornor  migiit  think   fit   to  re- 
serve for  the  sanction  of  the  Central  Govern- 
ment, if  the  latter  refused  their  sanction,  al- 
though it  was  demanded  by  the  people  of  the 
section,  and  there  were  no  rea<?on  for  this  re- 
fusal, we  should  hare  our  sixty-five  members 
in  the  Central  Parliament  to  protest  against 
it,  and  who  would  unite  and  make  combina- 
tions to  turn  out  the  ministry  who  should  act 
in  that  manner.     And  you  are  not  to  say  thai 
those  sixty-five  members  would  be  jK>werles8 
against  the  rest  of  the  llou.se.     United  in  a 
compact  phalanx,  they  would,  without  doubt, 
find  support  among  the  members  of  the  other 
provinces,    who    would    have    every    reason 
not   to   allow   our   rights   and    privilef^es   to 
be  infringed,  lost  thoy  should  ono  duj   ex- 
perience   the  wamo  treatment  thcmnelves   in 


877 


regard  to  their  own.     On   the  other  hand, 
Mr.  Speaker,  the  disallowance  of  a  measure 
.sanctioned  by  the  local  governments  is  limited 
as  to  time,  and  must  be  declared  within  twelve 
months,  whereas,  under  the  present  system, 
it  can  be  done  within  two  years.     This  is  a 
restriction  which  has  been  granted  in  favor  of 
Lower  Canada  and  of  all  the  other  provinces 
of  the  Confederation  ;  it  is  a  restriction  fa- 
vorable to  the  people,  but  the  honorable  mem- 
ber will  refuse,  no  doubt,  to  acknowledge  that 
this    concession  to   the  people  is  our  work. 
Moreover,  why  should  we  be  afraid  of  this 
veto  ?     In  our  Local  Legislature  we  assuredly 
have  no  intention  to  be  unjust  towards  a  por- 
tion of    the  population,  but  propose  to  act 
towards  them,  as  in  times  past,  as  towards 
equals  ;  we  intend,  in  short,  to  be  as  just  to 
that  part  of  the  population  as  we  were  when 
they  were  a  feeble  clement  in  it.     This  has 
not  prevented  the  honorable  member  for  Ho- 
chelaga    from  telling  the    English   members 
from  Lower  Canada  that  they  must  be  on 
their  guard    and   take   care   of   themselves. 
Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  shall  not  offer  such  an 
insult  to  the  race  to  which  I  belong.     The 
FrenQh-Canadians  have    always  acted  honor- 
ably towards  the  other  races  who  live  among 
them,  and  they  will  certainly  not  take  advan- 
tage now,  any  more  than  they  have  done  in 
times  past,  of  the  majority  they  may  have  in 
the  Local  Legislature  to  molest  or  persecute  the 
minority.     This  is  the  reason  why  we  have 
no  fear  uor  misgiving  relative  to  the  right  of 
veto.     Moreover,  we  are  not  to  suppose  that 
the  intention  of  the  two  clauses  which  I  have 
already  quoted,  is  that  every  bill  passed  in  the 
local  legislatures  will  be  reserved  for  the  sanc- 
tion of  the   Central  Government.     That  re- 
servation will  take  place  only  in  respect  of 
such  measures  as  are  now  reserved  for  Her 
Majesty's  sanction.      So  that  the-  honorable 
member    for  Hochelaga  is   widely   mistaken 
when  he  reproaches  the  present  Government  for 
having  agreed  to  those  two  clauses.     Another 
question  on  which  the  hon.  member  has  also 
called  us  to   account,   relates   to  the   export 
duties  on  timber  and  coals.     In   clause   29, 
which  relates  to  the  powers  of  the  Federal 
Parliament,  the  third  section  reads  as  follows : 

The  imposition  or  regulation  of  duties  of  cus- 
toms on  imports  or  exports,  except  on  exports 
of  timber,  logs,  masts,  spars,  deals,  and  sawn 
lumber  from  New  Brunswick,  and  of  coal  and 
other  minerals  from  Nova  Scotia. 

The  fact  that  this  power  has  been  conferred 
on  the  Government  does  not  imply  that  it 
will  be  exercised.     The  power  was   granted 
49 


simply  because  it  might  be  necessary  in  certain 
cases  mentioned.     Now  this  is  the  reason  for 
the  second  part  of  the  clause  which  I  have 
just  read  to  the  House,   and  which  I  cannot 
better  explain  than  by  citing  some  expressions 
of  a  speech  by   the   Hon.   the   Minister   of 
Finance  on  the  subject.   Nevertheless,  as  there 
are  several  honorable  members  in  the  House 
who  do  not  understand  English,  I  think   it 
will  perhaps   be   better  to   explain   them  in 
French.     Here  then  was  the  thought  of  the 
Convention :  as  in  New  Brunswick  the  Gov- 
ernment had  found  that  it  was  a  great  disad- 
vantae;e   to  collect  the  duties  on  timber   ac- 
cording  to  the  system  formerly  adopted,  and 
they  had  substituted  an  export  duty  which 
superseded  all  other  dues   on   that  product, 
it  was  no  more  than  right  that  this  source  of 
revenue  should  remain  in  New  Brunswick,  to 
which  province  it  was  an  object  of  absolute 
necessity  to    defray   its   local   expenses.     In 
Canada  we  retain,  under  the  new  Constitution, 
our  own  method  of  collecting  similar  duties. 
As  to  New  Brunswick,  the  duty  on  the  article 
in  question  is  their  principal  revenue,   as  coal 
is  almost  the  sole  revenue  of  Nova   Scotia ; 
and  if  they  had  been  deprived  of  them,  they 
would  have  peremptorily  refused  to  join    the 
Confederation.     (Hear,  hear.)    Their  demand 
was  perfectly  just,  and  could  not  therefore  be 
refused.     J^Ioreover,  we  have  no  right  to  com- 
plain, for  they  leave  us  all  our  mines  and  our 
lands,  and  we  shall  now,  as  heretofore,  collect 
the  proceeds  for  our  own  use  and  profit.     The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  says  that  i  t 
will  be  impossible  to  administer  the  affairs  of 
the  local  legislatures  without  bavins:  recourse 
to  direct  taxation  ;  but  a   man  of  his  expe- 
rience ought  not  to  have  made  that  assertion. 
Instead  of  attempting   to    trade    on  popular 
prejudice,  he  ought  to  have  admitted  at  once 
that  the  right  granted  by  the  new  Constitution 
of   levying   direct   taxes,   is  the   same   that 
already  exists  in    the   present    Constitution ; 
it  is  the  same  right  that  all  our  municipalities 
possess.    It  does  not  follow  that  the  right  will 
be    exercised.      But  the   honorable  member 
knows  -vrell  that  the  people  are  not   in  favor 
of  direct  taxation,  and   that  they  would   be 
unwilling  to  adopt  it  as  a  system,  in  place  of 
indirect  taxes  ;  hence  his  attempt  to  use  it  as 
a  bug-bear  in  order  to   alarm   the   people  oi' 
Lower  Canada.     We  must  bear  in  mind  that 
the  proceeds  of  the  local  revenue  of    Lower 
Canada  will  be  employed  in   defraying  local 
expenses.     The  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  has 
stated  that  in  Lower  Canada  the  local  revenue 
will  be  S557,000,  besides  the  80   cents  per 


378 


head  of  the  population  to  be  paid  each  year, 
in  half-yearly  payments  in  advance,  by  the 
Federal  Government.  This  subsidy  will, 
therefore,  amount  to  S88S,000,  making  a  total 
of  01,440,000  for  the  local  requirements  of 
Lower  Canada.  I  am  aware  that  the  honor- 
able member  has  cast  a  doubt  upon  the 
accuracy  of  the  figures  set  down  by  the  Hon. 
JVJinister  of  Finance,  and  attempted  to  show 
that  the  local  revenue  would  not  be  as  large; 
but  the  figures  I  shall  give  are  taken  from 
the  Public  Accounts,  and  I  think  it  will  be  ad- 
mitted that  they  must  be  considered  to  be 
correct.  At  all  events,  here  are  the  figures  I 
have  gathered  from  an  examination  of  the 
official  documents  : — 

Expenses  other  than  those  of  the 
le^iislature  and  of    the   local 

debt  of  Lower  Canada $    997,000 

Cost  of  legislation ]50,00ii 

I  iicrest  on  local  debt 90,000 

Total $1,237,0U0 

Now  the  revenue  of  Lower  Canada  will  be  as 
follows,  taking  the  present  figures  and  without 
adding  the  probable  increase  : — 

Slide  dues $  49,040 

Casual 4,0U0 

Quebec  Fire  Loan 294 

Fines,  &c 341 

Tax  on  judicial  proceedings 91,731 

Cullers'  lees,  mertsuring  timber.  . .  79,960 

Interest  on  Municipal  Loan  Fund. .  114,889 

Cuurt  houses.  Lower  Canada 25,392 

Jury  and  building  fund,  L.  C 29,710 

L.  C.  mu'  icipal  fund 38, 752 

Common  school  lands 1 28, 340 

Tavern  licenses  applied  to  L.  C. 

municipal  fund 3,9G2 

Crown  lands 205,512 

Total  revenue   771,823 

80c  per  head  of  population 888,888 

1,660,712 
Less: — Interest  on  municipal  loan 
fund,   and  proceeds  of  .':chool 
lands 243,129 

Leaving  a  net  revenue  of. .  .$1,417,582 

Now  it  is  evident  that  these  figures  agree 
with  the  calculations  of  the  Honorable  Fi- 
nance Minister,  less  a  difference  of  820,000 
to  025,000.  Lower  Canada  will  have  a  reve- 
nue of  nearly  $1,500,000,  and  the  excess  of 
its  revenue  over  expenditure,  according  to  the 
calculations  of  the  Honorable  the  I'in;in<<' 
Minister,  will  be  8209,000. 

Hon.  Mu.  DoRION— Why  do  you  deduct 
th«  revenue  from  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund  ? 


Is  it  because  Lower  Canada  is  to  be  charged 
with  the  payment  of  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund 
debt? 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEYIN— I  strike 
out  the  item  of  revenue  from  the  com- 
mon school  lands,  because  in  the  course  of 
time  the  lands  will  become  exhausted,  and  the 
revenue  cannot  be  considered  as  permanent. 
Besides,  the  amount  must  be  added  to  the 
Common  School  Fund,  and  cannot  really  be 
considered  as  an  ordinary  source  of  revenue. 
It  is  the  same  as  legards  the  Municipal  Loan 
Fund,  which  cannot  be  considered  as  per- 
manent revenue,  and  I  wish  to  count  only  the 
ordinary  items  of  revenue.  But,  on  the  other 
hand,  it  must  be  seen  that  many  of  the  items 
of  revenue  will  increase  in  course  ot  time,  so 
that  the  surplus  of  revenue  over  expenditure 
in  Lower  Canada  will  always  be  considerable. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  —  The  honorable 
iiicujbor  did  not  understand  my  question.  I 
asked  him  whether  Lower  Canada  will  be 
compelled  to  pay  the  municipal  debt,  and  he 
has  not  answered. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— I  un- 
derstood the  honorable  gentleman  perfectly 
well,  but  I  make  it  a  rule  never  to  allow  my- 
self to  be  turned  aside  by  interruptions,  and 
I  shall  not  depart  from  that  rule  now.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  figures  I  have  given  are  highly 
important,  for  they  demonstrate  that  Lower 
Canada  will  have  a  real  revenue  under  the 
new  Constitution — a  revenue  which  is  not 
calculated  upon  the  probable  increase  and 
prosperity  of  the  country,  but  upon  the  pre- 
sent revenue — of  nearly  §1,500,000,  to  meet 
local  expenses.  And  yet,  in  the  face  of  these 
figures,  which  are  based  upon  the  most  evi- 
dent facts,  honorable  members  talk  of  direct 
taxes.  They  simply  want  to  frighten  the 
country.  But  the  people  will  sec  that  there 
is  no  danger  of  direct  taxation  with  the  sur- 
plus revenue  we  shall  have.  Direct  taxation 
must  be  resorted  to  if  Lower  Canada  .should 
give  way  to  extravagance  and  spend  more 
than  her  means,  but  not  otherwise.  Lower 
Canada  will  have  a  revenue  sufficient  to  meet 
all  its  expenses,  unless  it  follow  the  example 
of  a  person  with  an  income  of  X  lOO,  who 
should  expend  .€1,000.  The  total  expenses 
of  Lower  Canada  fur  all  purptv^es,  loss  the 
cost  of  legislation  and  the  payment  of  interest 
on  the  local  debt,  will  bo  8097,000,  calculating 
the  expenditure  upon  the  pre.sont  ba.sis.  But 
it  is  evident  that  Jiuwer  Cjuiada  will  reduce 
its  expenditure,  .such  for  iustoncu  aa  the 
expcnaiture  connected  with  the  Crown  Land.*) 
department,  and   that  economy  will  be  prac- 


379 


tised  in  order,  at  a  future  period,  to  meet  the 
expenses  of  local  works,  without  rendering  it 
necessary  to  defer  other  necessary  items  of 
expenditure.  The  expenses  of  the  local  le- 
gislation of  Lower  Canada  may  be  set  down 
at  $150,000,  and  that  is  a  reasonable  estimate 
if  we  remember  that  all  questions  of  general 
interest  arc  to  be  discussed  and  regulated  by 
the  Federal  Parliament,  and  that  the  local 
legislatures  will  only  have  to  deal  with  ques- 
tions of  local  interest.  It  is  clear  that  the 
sessions  will  be  far  shorter  than  they  are  at 
present,  and  far  less  expensive.  Every  one 
will  admit  that  under  the  present  system  long 
discussions  do  not  take  place  in  the  House  on 
private  bills  and  measures  of  local  interest, 
which  are  discussed  in  committees,  but  that 
such  discussions  occur  on  questions  of  a  gen- 
eral interest,  such  as  railw.ays,  taxation,  the 
tariff,  Confederation,  and  that  these  are  the 
discussions  which  prolong  the  session.  I  say, 
moreover,  that  the  interest  on  the  portion  of 
the  public  debt  to  be  assigned  to  us  will  be 
about  $90,000,  and  that  our  total  yearly  ex- 
penditure will  reach  $1,237,000,  leaving  us  a 
surplus  revenue  of  $209,000.  I  trust  Lower 
Canada  will  have  the  prudence  to  set  apart  a 
large  portion  of  the  $209,000,  in  order  to 
carry  out  hereafter  local  works  and  improve- 
ments without  being  compelled  to  touch  its 
yearly  revenue. 

Mr.  DUFRESNE  (Iberville)— The   sur- 
plus can  be  put  out  at  interest !    (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN  —  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  feigns  great 
uneasiness  as  to  the  position  of  Lower  Canada 
in  the  Confederation,  as  well  as  to  the  matter 
of  direct  taxes.  He  spoke  at  great  length  as 
to  the  prosperous  financial  position  of  Lower 
Canada  when  she  entered  the  union  in  1841 ; 
but  we  must  remember  that  before  the  union 
the  revenue  of  Lower  Canada  was  but  $5S0,- 
000,  and  that,  nevertheless,  she  was  compelled 
to  provide  for  all  local  expenses  and  many 
items  of  general  expense  which,  under  the 
Confederation,  will  fall  within  the  domain  of 
the  Federal  Government,  such,  for  instance, 
as  the  payment  of  the  salaries  of  the  judges, 
etc.  Under  the  Confederation  Lower  Canada 
will  have  a  surplus  of  over  $200,000  on  its 
local  expenditure,  even  though  the  present  ex- 
penditure should  not  be  reduced.  The  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  also  said  that 
the  share  of  the  debt  apportioned  to  Lower 
Canada,  apart  from  the  general  debt,  would 
be  $4,500,000.  He  must  have  made  serious 
errors  in  his  calculations  in  order  to  arrive  at 
such  a  result.  The  debt  of  the  two  Canadas 
At  the  present  moment,  deducting  the  Sinking 


Fund,  is  $67,263,000  ;  comparing  the  calcula- 
tion of  the  honorable  member  with  that  put 
forth  by  him  in  his  address  to  his  rlccfors  in 
1863, 1  find  he  has  arrived  at  a  perfectly  differ- 
ent result,  and  he  has  no  right  to  accuse  others 
of  being  in  error.  Thus,  in  his  address  he 
states  that  apart  from  the  then  debt,  $16,- 
000,000  would  be  required  for  the  Interco- 
lonial Railway,  and  yet  he  now  asserts  that 
it  would  take  twenty  millions. 

Hon.   Mr.  DOKION— It  was  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council  who  said  it. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— The 
honorable  member  should  not  trust  to  the  cal- 
culations of  the  President  of  the  Council, 
since  he  himself  has  stated  that  nothing  good 
can  come  from  this  side  of  the  House.  But 
the  fact  is  the  honorable  member  was  anxious 
not  to  frighten  the  people  at  that  time,  and 
therefore  it  was  that  he  spoke  of  sixteen  mil- 
lions, whereas  now  ho  speaks  of  twenty. 
With  regard  to  the  amount  of  the  public 
debt,  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  has  given 
us  figures  taken  from  the  most  reliable  sources, 
and  I  prefer  adopting  his  figures  to  following 
those  of  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga. 
The  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  told  us  that 
the  total  debt  of  the  two  Canadas,  without 
counting  the  Sinking  Fund,  was  $67,263,000, 
and  that  the  Federal  Government  would  un- 
dertake $62,500,000.  There  will  therefore 
remain  about  $4,763,000  to  be  divided  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  and  if  Lower 
Canada  takes  for  its  share  $4,500,000  as  the 
honorable  member  stated,  there  will  only  re- 
main about  $263,000  for  Upper  Canada  !  I 
do  not  see  how  the  honorable  gentleman  has 
managed  to  arrive  at  such  a  result,  for  it  is 
clearly  erroneous. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Let  the  Honorable 
Soliticitor  General  apply  to  the  Honorabl* 
Minister  of  Finance,  and  he  will  get  the  ex- 
planation. 

Hon.  Solicitor  General  LANGEVIN 
— It  is  evident  that  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga,  in  his  calculation  of  the  apportion- 
ment of  the  residue  ot  the  debt  between  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada,  has  put  a  4  in  place  of_a 
1  or  2,  in  the  same  way  that  he  put  20  in 
place  of  16  in  the  matter  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway.  In  his  anxiety  to  find  fault  he  sees 
double,  and  instead  of  seeing  five  millions  to 
be  divided,  he  s  cs  nine.  The  debt  devolving 
upon  Lower  Canada  will  not  be  $4,500,000. 
Lower  Canada  will  have  only  its  just  share  of 
the  five  millions  to  be  divided. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  — The  honorable 
member  has  forgotten  the  explanations  of  the 
Honorable  Minister  of  Finance,  who  stated 


380 


that  the  debt  incurred  for  the  redemption  of 
the  seigniorial  tenure,  which  amounts  to 
three  millions,  was  not  included  in  the  general 
debt. 

Hon.  Solicitor  General  L ANGEVIN 
— The  Minister  of  Finance  stated  the  whole 
debt,  in  his  speech  at  Sherbrooke,  at  S67,- 
203,994.  The  amount  of  the  debt  is  §75,- 
578,000 ;  but  it  is  necessary  to  deduct  the 
Sinking  Fund  and  cash  in  bank,  §7,132,068, 
reducing  it  to  868,445,953;  the  Minister  of 
Finance  also  deducted  the  Common  School 
Fund,  which  amounts  to  §1,181,958,  and  he 
arrived  at  the  result  I  have  just  given,  that  is 
to  say,  that  the  real  debt  of  Canada  is  §67,- 
263,994.  I  do  not  give  all  the  items  of  the 
public  debt,  for  I  do  not  think  it  devolves 
upon  me  to  prove  that  the  calculations  of  the 
Finance  Minister  are  not  correct ;  that  is  the 
task  of  those  who  accuse  him  of  error ;  and 
the  Public  Accounts  are  there  to  shew  that 
the  Finance  Minister  has  stated  nothing  but 
the  truth.  The  honorable  member  for  IIo- 
chelaga  has  manifested  excessive  anxiety  re- 
specting the  financial  position  of  the  Confed- 
eration ;  but  in  this  case  also  we  have  the 
same  guarantees  as  for  that  of  the  local  gov- 
ernments. He  asserted,  for  instance,  that 
Newfoundland  was  too  poor  to  contribute  to 
the  revenue  of  the  Confederation,  and  that,  in 
place  of  receiving  anything  from  that  province, 
we  shall  be  compelled  to  send  down  money  to 
prevent  the  people  of  the  island  from  perish- 
ing by  cold.  The  honorable  gentleman  is, 
nevertheless,  well  aware  that  Newfoundland 
has  a  large  revenue,  a  revenue  of  §480,000, 
and  that  its  expenses  are  less  than  its  income. 
Newfoundland  will  receive  its  share  from  the 
Federal  chest,  but  it  will  also  contribute  to  the 
general  revenue.  While  I  am  considering  this 
portion  of  the  honorable  gentleman's  speech, 
I  must  admit  that  it  is  the  strongest  argument 
in  behalf  of  Confederation,  from  the  stand- 
point of  the  Lower  Provinces,  that  could  be 
brought  forward ;  and,  for  my  part,  I  desire 
to  see  thousands  of  copies  of  his  speech  sent 
to  those  provinces,  for  his  object  clearly  is  to 
shew  that  the  measure  would  be  entirely  to 
their  advantage.  He  has  attempted  to  shew 
that  they  will  have  a  larger  revenue  than  they 
have  at  present;  but  he  omitted  to  state  that 
liOwcr  Canada  would  have  §200,000  over  and 
above  lier  expenses.  He  knows  perfectly  well 
that  the  totiil  revenue  of  the  provinces  forma  a 
sum  of  §14,223,320,  for  1864,  and  that  the 
total  expenditure  amounted  only  to  §13,350,- 
832,  so  that  there  is  a  surplus  of  §872,488, 
apart  from  the  revenue  from   increase  of  im- 


ports in  1864.  The  financial  position  is  there- 
fore highly  favorable  for  the  formation  of  a 
Confederation,  The  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  stated  that  New  Brunswick  would 
have  a  surplus  of  §34,000  over  its  expendi- 
ture, and  he  complains,  upon  that  ground,  of 
the  subsidy  of  §63,000  it  is  proposed  to  pay 
that  province  during  ten  years.  But  every 
one  is  aware  that  the  subsidy  is  to  be  paid 
because  that  province  gives  up  all  its  revenue? 
to  the  Federal  Government,  except  that  derived 
from  its  export  duty  on  timber ;  that  was  the 
reason  its  delegates  insisted  on  the  payment 
of  the  subsidy  during  ten  years,  and  they 
were  right.  The  honorable  member  also 
stated  that  Prince  Edward  Island  was  to 
receive  §48,000  more  than  its  expenses.  But 
how  comes  it  then  that  Prince  Edward  I.s- 
land  has  hitherto  exhibited  reluctance  ?  It 
must  be  that  that  province  takes  a  different 
view  from  the  honorable  member.  The 
truth,  however,  is  that  Prince  Edward 
Island,  like  the  other  provinces,  was  treated 
with  justice  and  equity  by  the  Quebec  Con- 
ference, that  its  local  requirements  were  con- 
sidered, and  thit  a  sufficient  revenue  to  pro- 
vide for  them  was  awarded  to  it.  The  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga,  who  spoke  in 
English,  took  that  opportunity  to  make  a 
violent  appeal  to  the  members  from  Upper 
Canada,  and  told  them  that  there  would  be 
enormous  imposts,  and  that  two-thirds  of  the 
revenue  and  of  the  taxes  would  be  paid  by 
them.  He  did  well  to  speak  in  English,  lor 
I  am  certain  that  he  would  not  make  the 
same  assertion  in  French  in  the  presence  of 
the  members  from  Lower  Canada;  he  would 
make  no  appeal  of  that  nature,  and  I  regret 
it,  for  that  would  give  us  the  best  of  reasons 
for  entering  into  the  Conlederation  ;  but  I 
must  acknowledge  that  that  statement  of  the 
honorable  member  is  not  exactly  correct,  for 
the  basis  of  the  Confederation  is  justice  to 
all.  The  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
also  said,  in  order  t»  produce  an  effect  upon 
the  members  from  Upper  Canada,  that  the 
extension  of  the  Confederation  westward  was 
a  farce,  "  ;ui  absurd  affair,"  because  the  wes- 
tern provinces  do  not  even  think  of  it,  and 
bccau.se  we  have  no  communication  with  that 
territory. 

Hon.  Attv.  Gen.  CARTIEIl— We  mu6t 
go  round  Cape  Horn  1   (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— Since  the 
(jucstion  of  Coufederation  has  been  raised, 
p:ipcr<  have  arrived  from  Victoria  (Vancou- 
ver's Island)  and  from  Briti."-)!  Columbia,  and 
they   idl  agree  in   saying  that  it  is  to  their 


381 


advantage  to  unite  themselves  with  the  pro- 
vinces for  all  general  business,  reserving  to 
themselves  the  management  of  their  local  af- 
foirs.  I  quote  as  follows  from  one  of  the 
journals  in  question  : — 

Whatever  may  be  the  result  of  the  present  at- 
tempts to  form  a  Confederation  of   the  North 
American  Colonies,  we  may  be   certain  of  one 
thing,  and  that  is,  that  but  few  years  will  pass 
away  before  the  accomplishment  of  a  plan  of  this 
nature.     Half  a  dozen  provinces   lying  adjacent 
to  each  other,  and  subject  to  one  and  the  same 
power,  having  dififerent  tariffs,  exhibit  a  state  of 
affairs  which,  from  its  very  nature,   cannot  con- 
tinue   long.     However,    setting   aside    this   ano- 
maly, we  find  North  American  Colonies  for  which 
a  more  vast  political  career  must   be  provided. 
The  people  have   too   long   labored  under   the 
weight  of  disabilities  which,   by  wounding  their 
pridef  have  placed  them  in  a  humiliating  position 
before  the  eyes  of  the  whole  world.    With  all  the 
advantages  of    responsible  government  granted 
to  him  by  the  Imperial  authorities,    after   years 
of  strife  and  trials,  the  colonist  hardly  possesses 
one  half  the  national   privileges  enjoyed  by   an 
Englishman.     He  is  deprived   of  his   share    of 
patronage  even  in  cases  m  which  he  is  entitled  to 
it  and  is  eminently  worthy  of  it.     The  position  of 
Colonial  Governor  is  seldom  or  never  granted  to 
him,    and    in    many    parts    of    Her   Majesty's 
dominions  he  is  forbidden  to  practise   his  profes- 
sion in  the  courts  of  justice.      We  therefore  hail 
this  initiative  taken  by  the  Canadian  Government 
as  the  comiiiercement  of  the  regeneration  of  the 
colonists,  who  have  hitherto  remained  in  pupilage. 
With  a  confederation  of  colonies  extending  from 
one  ocean   to  the    other,    what  limits  shall   we 
assign  to   our  greatness,  our   material   progress 
and  our  political  aspirations?     Instead  of  seeing 
thj  talent  of  our  statesmen  fettered,  harassed  and 
restrained  within  the  narrow  limits  of  local  poli- 
tics, we  shall  find  its  scope  extended  to  a  whole 
continent,  while   a  more  vast  and   natural  field 
will  be  thrown  open  to  the  active  and  enterprising 
spirit  of  the  North  American  Provinces.      Want 
of  space  prevents  our  entering  upon  this  question 
at  greater  length  to-day ;  but  we  hope  that   the 
movement  will  succeed,  and  will  allow  us  at  no 
distant  day  to  emerge  from  the  isolated  and  feeble 
position  in  which  we  now  are,  to  become  a  part 
of  the  great  British  North  American  Confeder- 
ation. 

That  is  the  language  of  one  of  the  news- 
papers of  those  colonies.  What  has  the 
hon.  member  to  say  to  it  ?  I  hope  I  shall 
be  forgiven  for  reading  some  more  extracts 
from  these  journals,  which  we  do  not  read 
here  as  much  as  we  ought  to  do,  although 
they  are  of  a  nature  to  pve  us  information 
respecting  that  part  of  British  North 
America.     Another  paper  says  : — 

There  is  then  but  one  course  left  for  the  Eng 


lish  colonies,  and  more  especially  the  North 
American  and  Australian  colonies.  Before  ten 
years  have  passed  over  our  heads,  the  population 
of  the  colonies  comprised  between  Vancouver's 
Island  and  Newfoundland  will  be  hardly  les-i  than 
six  millions  of  souls,  occupying  a  territory  as 
large  as  that  of  the  United  States  before  the 'civil 
war,  and  in  extent  greater  than  three-fourths  of 
the  continent  of  Europe.  With  telegraphic  com- 
munication and  railways  fi'om  one  ocean  to  the 
other,  with  a  Federal  union,  in  which  will  be 
combined  and  concentrated  all  the  talent  of  the 
colonies,  and  the  object  of  which  will  be  to  re- 
present the  various  interests  of  those  colonies, 
what  country  has  before  it  a  more  splendid  future 
than  this  immense  Confederation,  with  its  in- 
numerable and  inexhaustible  resources? 

I  shall  not  occupy  any  further  time  in 
quoting  from  these  journals,  but  I  wished  to 
demonstrate  that  the  plan  of  Confederation 
is  not  only  a  plan  of  political  men  in 
their  extremity,  as  was  said  by  the  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga,  but  that  the  pro- 
vinces give  in  their  adherence  to  it,  because 
they  perceive  that  it  will  be  advantageous  to 
them.  As  to  the  facilities  for  communication, 
I  shall  quote  an  excellent  authority — Pro- 
fessor Hind — to  show  that  ibty  are  not  so 
limited  as  the  hon.  member  declares  them  to 
be.  The  following  is  from  an  essay  by  Pro- 
fessor Hind  on  the  subject  of  the  North- 
West  Territory  : — 

The  Canadian  emigrant  party  assembled  at  Fort 
Garry,  in  June,  1862,  travelling  thither  by  Detroit, 
La  Crosse,  St.  Paul,  and  Fort  Abercrombie,  by 
rail,  stage  and  steamer.  At  Fort  Garry  they 
separated  into  two  parties  ;  the  first  division  con- 
tained about  one  hundred  emigrants,  the  second 
division,  sixty-five  persons.  The  first  party  took 
the  northern  route,  by  Carlton  to  Edmonton  ;  the 
second,  the  southern  trail.  At  Edmonton  they  all 
changed  their  carts  for  horses  and  oxen,  and 
went  thence  in  a  straight  line  to  the  Leather  Pass 
(lat.  54  °  ),  through  which  they  took  130  oxen, 
and  about  70  horses.  They  sud'ienly  found  them- 
selves on  the  head  waters  of  the  Eraser  river,  and 
so  gentle  was  the  ascent  that  the  only  means  they 
had  of  knowing  that  they  had  passed  the  dividing 
ridge  of  the  Rocky  Mountains  was  by  unex- 
pectedly observing  the  waters  of  the  rivers  flow- 
ing to  the  westward.  When  in  the  mountains  they 
killed  a  few  oxen  for  provisions  ;  others  were  sold 
to  the  Indians  at  Tfete  Jaune  Cache,  on  the  Eraser 
river,  and  others  were  rafted  down  the  Eraser  to 
the  forks  of  the  Quesnelle.  At  Tete  Jaune  Cache 
a  portion  of  the  party  separated  from  the  rest, 
and,  with  fourteen  horses,  went  across  the  country 
by  an  old  well-worn  trail,  to  Thompson's  river, 
and  thus  succeeded  in  taking  their  horses  from 
Fort  Garry  through  the  Rocky  Mountains — 
through  a  supposed  impassable  part  of  British 
Columbia — to  the   wintering  station   on   Thomp- 


38!s> 


son's  river  for  tbe  pack  animals  of  the  British 
Columbia  gold-seekers.  With  this  party  of  more 
than  150  people  were  a  woman  and  three 
little  children.  The  little  children  were  well 
cared  for,  for  the  emigrants  took  a  cow  with 
them,  and  these  infant  travellers  were  supplied 
with  milk  all  the  way  on  their  long  journey  to  the 
Leather  Pass  in  the  Rocky  Mountairs.  I  look 
upon  the  cuccessful  journey  of  the  Canadian  emi 
grants  in  1862,  across  the  continent,  as  an  event 
in  the  history  of  Centnil  British  America  of  unex- 
ampled importance.  It  cannot  fail  to  open  the 
eyes  of  all  thinking  men  to  the  singular  natural 
fuatures  of  the  country  which  formed  the  scene  of 
this  remarkable  journey.  Probably  there  is  no 
other  continuous  stretch  of  country  in  the  world, 
exceeding  1,0U0  miles  in  length,  and  wholly  in  a 
state  of  nature,  which  it  would  be  possible  for  100 
people,  including  a  woman  and  three  children,  to 
traverse  during  a  single  short  season,  and  success- 
fully, and  indeed  easily  overcome  such  apparent- 
ly formidable  obstacles  as  the  Rocky  Mountains 
have  been  supposed  to  present. 

On  a  review  of  what  is  now  known  of  Central 
British  America,  the  following  facts  cannot  fail 
to  arrest  the  attention  and  occupy  the  thoughts 
of  those  who  think  it  worth  while  to  consider  its 
future,  and  its  possible  relation  to  ourselves  during 
the  next  and  succeeding  generations. 

We  find  in  the  great  basin  of  Lake  Winnipeg 
an  area  of  cultivable  land  equal  to  three  times 
the  area  of  this  province,  and  equal  to  the  avail- 
able land  for  agricultural  settlement  in  the  pro- 
vince of  Canada.  It  is  watered  by  great  lakes,  as 
large  as  Lake  Ontario ;  and  by  a  vast  river,  which 
in  summer  is  navigable  to  within  sight  of  the 
Rocky  Mountains.  It  contains  inexhaustible  sup- 
plies of  iron,  lignite,  coal,  salt,  and  much  gold. 
It  has  a  seaport  within  350  miles,  via  the  Nelson 
River,  of  Hudson  Bay,  which  is  accessible  for  three 
months  in  the  year  for  steamers. 

This  great  basin  contains  the  only  area  left  on 
the  American  continent  where  a  new  nation  can 
spring  into  existence. 

This  is  a  complete  refutation  of  the  statement 
made  by  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga, 
that  commuQication  with  these  colonies  is 
impossible.  In  a  part  of  the  lecture  from 
which  I  have  just  quoted,  Prol'cssor  Hind 
says  that,  between  Lake  Superior  and  the 
Lake  of  the  Woods,  the  distance  is  only  about 
200  miles,  and  when  once  that  is  got  over, 
an  immense  valley  more  than  a  thousand 
miles  iu  length  is  attained — a  u.aguificent 
valley,  which  may  Lrm  part  of  the  Confed- 
eracy and  provide  an  outlet  for  our  popula- 
tion. The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  also 
toUl  u.H,  that  if  we  accepted  Couiedoration 
we  should  subsequently  bo  drawn  into  a 
legislative  union;  but  he  well  knows  that 
by  the  Constitution  which  is  submitted 
to  tiiis  llou.-ic,  ttio  quodtioii  ol'  a  FcJcral 
union  only  is  mooted.     It  at  a  subsequout 


period  our  descendants  should  choose  to 
have  a  legislative  union,  that  willj^be  their 
affair  and  not  ours  ;  if  they  do  choose  to 
have  it,  it  will  be  because  they  will  then  be 
strong  enough  to  have  nothing  to  fear. 
Further,  without  entering  into  all  the  details 
relating  to  the  position,  as  to  religion,  of 
Lower  Canada  in  the  Confederation,  I  must 
call  attention  to  the  fact  that  the  total  popu- 
lation of  all  the  provinces,  in  18G1,  was 
3,300,000  souls,  and  of  these  the  total  num- 
ber of  Catholics  amounted  to  1,494,000. 
Thus  they  will  be  numerous  enough  to 
protect  their  religious  and  other  interests ; 
and  those  interests  will  be  in  a  position  of 
safety  in  the  local  legislatures.  We  do  not 
seek  to  be  allowed  privileges  which  others 
have  not;  we  only  wi.^^h  that  our  rights  may 
be  respected  as  we  respect  those  of  others. 
French-Canadians  are  not,  have  never  been, 
and  will  not  become  persecutors  either  in 
political  or  religious  matters  under  the  Con- 
federation. I  appeal  to  men  belonging  to 
other  religions  to  say  whether  we  have  ever 
proved  unjust  or  persecu.ors  to  them.  That 
part  of  the  population  of  Lower  Canada 
which  is  of  foreign  origin  will  have  nothing 
to  fear  under  the  Local  Government,  any 
more  than  we  shall  have  anything  to  fear 
under  the  Federal  Government.  But  in 
consideration  of  what  has  been  said  by  the 
honorable  members  for  Uochelaga  and  Lot- 
bini^re,  and  of  the  mistrust  which  they  have 
endeavored  to  create  in  the  minds  of  the 
French-Canadian  and  Catholic  population  of 
Lower  Canada,  I  think  the  House  will  allow 
me  to  read  an  extract  irom  a  letter  written 
by  His  Grace  the  Archbishop  of  Halilax, 
who  is  likely  to  understand  the  interests  of 
the  Catholic  population  quite  as  well  as  the 
two  honorable  members  in  question.  This 
is  the  reply  which  he  makes  to  those  who 
pretended  that  we  had  reason  to  fear  inva- 
sion of  the  country  by  the  Fenians  : — 

If  there  be  fifty  thousand  men  already  pre- 
pared to  invade  this  co.;ijtry,  iis  you  admit,  instead 
uf  laboring  to  keep  us  in  uiir  present  disjointed 
and  defenctless  position,  you  .should  rather  cull 
on  all  to  unite  where  a  single  man  cannot  be 
dispensed  with,  and  gird  on  our  armor  for  the 
rencontre,  ll  responsible  government,  which  iho 
great  and  good  men  of  this  country  won  fov  us,  b« 
a  j)recious  heirloom  on  the  lilliputian  scale  on 
which  we  now  lind  it,  instead  of  bartering  it  away 
for  nothing  by  Confederation,  iisyou  say,  we  shall 
rallii-'r,  in  my  opinion,  add  toils  lustre  and  value, 
and  ennoble  and  enrich  it^  and  make  it  bound- 
lessly grander  and  mnrosociiro  for  onrselvrs  and 
those  who  uro  to  como  alter  u.s.     \Vu  obUiiued 


383 


responsible  government  from  the  Motlier  Couiitrj, 
iu  whose  legislative  halls  we  had  not  a  single 
member  to  represent  us.  "We  are  now,  on  the 
contrary,  asking  to  transfer  the  rich  and  prized 
deposit  to  a  place  which  will  be  a  part  only  of  our 
common  country,  where  our  voice  must  be  heard, 
and  where  we  will  have  a  fuller  and  fairer  repre- 
sentation than  the  city  of  London  or  Liverpool, 
or  Bristol,  can  boast  of  in  their  English  House  of 
Commons;  and  this  is  the  great  difference  between 
obtaining  from  England  what  we  had  not,  and 
transferring  what  we  now  have,  in  order  to  make 
it  more  valuable  and  more  available  for  our  own 
purposes,  and  by  far  more  secure.  Confeder- 
ation, therefore,  instead  of  depriving  us  of  the 
privileges  of  self-government,  is  the  only  practical 
and  reliable  guarantee  for  its  continuance.  We 
are  too  small  to  be  warranted  in  the  hope  of  being 
able  to  hold  it  always  on  the  strength  of  our  own 
resources  ;  and  England,  if  not  too  weak,  is  cer- 
tainly too  prudent  and  too  cautious  to  risk  her 
last  shilling  and  her  last  man  in  a  country  where, 
instead  of  a  population  of  four  millions,  she  will 
have  scarcely  one-tenth  of  that  number  to  help  her 
against  the  united  power  of  a  whole  continent. 
To  deny,  therefore,  the  obvious  advantages  of 
Confederation,  you  must  first  prove  that  union  is 
not  strength  —that  England  under  the  heptarchy, 
and  France  under  the  feudal  chief  and  barons, 
were  greater  and  stronger  and  happier  than  they 
now  are  as  the  two  greatest  nations  of  the 
world. 

Here,  again,  is  what  he  says  in  answer  to 
those  who  will  have  nothing  to  do  with 
defence,  under  the  pretext  that  we  have 
nothing  to  fear  from  our  neighbors  : — 

No  nation  ever  had  the  power  of  conquest  that 
did  not  use  it,  or  abuse  it,  at  the  very  first 
favorable  opportunity. 

■  All  that  is  said  of  the  magnanimity  and  for- 
bearance of  mighty  nations,  can  be  explained  on 
the  principle  of  sheer  expediency,  as  the  world 
knows.  The  whole  face  of  Europe  has  been 
changed,  and  the  dynasties  of  many  hundred  years 
have  been  swept  away  within  our  own  time,  on 
tho  jrinciple  of  might  alone — the  oldest,  the 
strongest,  and,  as  some  would  have  it,  the  most 
sacred  of  all  titles.  The  thirteen  states  of 
America,  with  all  their  professions  of  self-denial, 
have  been  all  the  time,  by  money-power,  and  by 
war,  and  by  negotiation  extending  their  frontier, 
until  they  more  than  quadrupled  their  territory 
within  sixty  years ;  and  believe  it  who  may,  are 
they  now,  of  their  own  accord,  to  come  to  a  full 
stop  ?  No ;  as  long  as  they  have  the  power  they 
must  go  onward,  for  it  is  the  very  nature  of 
power  to  grip  whatever  is  within  its  reach.  It  is 
not  their  hostile  feelings,  therefore,  but  it  is 
their  power,  and  only  their  power  I  dread. 

In  reply  to  those  who  declare  that  the  best 
defence  we  can  have  is  no  defence  at  all,  he 
says : — 

To  b«  fully    prepared   is  the  only  practical 


argument  that  can  have  weight  with  a  powerful 
enemy,  and  make  him  pause  beforehand  and 
count  the  cost.  And  as  the  sort  of  preparation 
I  speak  of  is  utterly  hopeless  without  the  union 
of  the  provinces,  so  at  a  moment  when  public 
opinion  is  being  formed  on  this  vital  point,  as  one 
deeply  concerned,  I  feel  it  a  duty  to  declare  my- 
self unequivocally  in  favour  of  Confederation  as 
cheaply  and  as  honorably  obtained  as  possible, 
but  Confederation  at  all  hazards  and  at  all  reason- 
able sacrifices. 

After  the  most  mature  consideration,  and  all 
the  arguments  I  have  heard  on  both  sides  for  the 
last  month,  ihese  are  my  inmost  convictions  on 
the  necessity  and  the  merits  of  a  measure  which 
alone,  under  Providence,  can  secure  to  us  social 
order  and  peace,  and  rational  liberty  and  all  the 
blessings  we  now  enjoy  under  the  mildest  govern- 
ment and  the  hallowed  institutions  of  the  freest 
and  happiest  country  in  the  world. 

I  will  now  draw  your  attention  to  a  short 
letter  from  the  Roman  Catholic  Bishop  of 
Newfoundland,  which  has  not  yet  been  read 
in  the  House,  but  which  has  just  been  pub- 
lished in  the  newspapers  : — 

St.  Johks,  Jan.  5th,  1865. 

My  Dear  Sir, — In  reply  to  your  communication 
of  this  date,  I  beg  to  state  that  I  took  no  notes  of 
the  observations  I  made  at  the  last  examination 
of  the  youth  of  St.  Bonaventure's  College.  I 
distinctly  remember,  however,  that  among  other 
arguments  I  used  to  impress  on  parents  and 
scholars  the  necessity  of  education,  one  was,  that 
according  to  the  tendency  of  the  age,  a  union  of  all 
the  British  North  American  Provinces  would  take 
place,  if  not  immediately,  by  the  force  of  circum- 
stances in  a  few  years ;  and  that  such  a  union 
would  have  an  extraordinary  influence  on  the 
rising  geneiation  in  Newfoundland.  People  were 
in  the  habit  of  saying  that  education  of  a  high 
class  was  useless  in  this  country,  as  the  field  was 
too  limited.  I  repudiated  that  idea  altogether. 
Newfoundlanders  were  not  confined  to  this  island, 
the  British  Empire  and  the  States  were  open  to 
them.  Wherever  the  English  language  was 
spoken,  there  was  an  opening  for  an  educated 
Newfoundlander.  But  independently  of  that,  the 
Confederation  of  the  Provinces  would  open  up  a 
home-market  for  education  and  talent — a  market 
increasing  every  year,  and  of  which  at  present  we 
can  form  no  conception.  The  bar,  for  example, 
would  be  open  to  all ;  the  Central  Legislature 
would  open  up  a  great  field  for  political  ability  ; 
the  highest  offices  of  the  law  and  the  government 
would  be  open  to  Newfoundlanders  as  well  as  to 
Canadians  or  Nova  Scotians ;  and  I  hope  that  they 
would  be  found  perfectly  qualified  by  education  to 
take  their  places,  side  by  side,  with  their  fellow- 
confederates,  and  compete  for  the  prizes  the 
Confederation  would  hold  out  to  them,  on  terms 
of  perfect  equality.  I  sincerely  believe  that  they 
could  do  so,  as,  from  my  experience,  I  considered 
that  the  youth  of  this  country  have  as  fine  talents, 


384. 


and  as  great  an  adaptability  for  learning,  as  I  have 
seen  in  any  part  of  the  world ;  and  that  I  never 
saw,  in  any  part  of  Europe,  boys  acquitting  them- 
selves better  (and  in  many  cases  not  so  well)  than 
they  did  at  the  preparatory  examinations  and  the 
present  exhibition.  This,  so  far  as  I  recollect, 
was  the  substance  of  the  remarks  I  made  on  the 
fact,  immediate  or  prospective,  of  the  Provincial 
Confederation. 

Thus,  whilst  some  honorable  members  seek 
to  alarm  Lower  Canada  by  asserting  that  our 
religion  and  our  nationality  are   in   danger, 
here  we   have  an   Archbishop  and  a  Bishop 
declaring  themselves    strongly  in  favor  of 
Confederation,  and  who  do  not  see  in  it  any 
danger    for    their    flocks.     And  it  is.  well 
known,  even  here,  that  the   whole  of  the 
estimable  and  most  respected  body  of  the 
clergy,  from  those  of  the  highest  rank  down  to 
the  very  humblest  of  their  followers,  are  in 
favor  of  Confederation.     But  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga,  for  the  purpose  of 
frightening  Lower  Canada,  has  told  us  that 
we  should  very  soon  have  a  legislative  union, 
and    that   in    that  case    the   fifty   French- 
Canadian    members    from     Lower     Canada 
would  coalesce  with    the  minority  of    the 
Federal     Parliament,    with     the     view    of 
obstructing  the  working  of  the  Government. 
Well,  what  better  proof  could  we  have  that 
we  have   nothing  to  fear,  and  that  we  shall 
not  be  exposed  to  danger  under  Confedera- 
tion ?     History  is   before  us   to  prove   that 
there    will    always    be    an    oppo.'iition,    and 
that    if    an    atteiij}>t    is    made    to    oppress 
any     one     section    of    the    Confederation, 
its   representatives    would  unite   in   a   body 
with  the  minority,  and  having  thereby  con- 
stituted a  majority,  would  prevent  any  injus- 
tice on  the  part  of  the  Federal  Government. 
I  beg  to  thank  tlie  hon.  member  for  having, 
against  his  will,  furnished  me  with  so  strong 
an  argument  in  favor  of  Confederation.     'J'lie 
Lon.  member  then   appealed  to  the   national 
passions  and  the  prejudices  of  race,     lie  told 
us   that  the   Protestant  minority  in  jjower 
Canada    would     have    to    seek    protection 
against  the  majority  of  that  section.      1  re- 
peat it,  he  made  that  assertion  in   English, 
and    would   not  repeat    it  in   French.      But 
wliat  treatment  did  the  minority  receive  in 
liower  Canada  when  she  had  a  separate  Par- 
liauienl ":'       Did    not    the    French-Canadian 
nmjurity   always  exerci.se   liberality  towards 
our  fellow-countrymen  whoto  origin  and   re- 
ligion   was    different    from    ours  '(       Thank 
(jod,  our  race  is  not  a  persecuting  race;  it 
hajj  ever  been  liberal  and  tolerant.     The  hon. 


member  for  Lotbinifere  (Mr.  Joly)  has  also 
appealed  to  the  religious  and  national  preju- 
dices of  the  English  minority  of  Lower  Ca- 
nada, but  he  ought  to  remember  that  there 
is  no  more  danger  for  the  English  race  in 
Lower  Canada  than  for  any  other,  and  tliat 
he  was  the  very  last  member  of  the  House 
who  ought  to  appeal  to  religious  or  national 
prejudices. 

Mr.  JOLY— Mr.  Speaker,  I  beg  leave  to 
correct  the  honorable  member. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN  — The 
hon.  gentleman  can  speak  presently. 

Mr.  joly — But  any  member  may  cor- 
rect another  when  he  has  been  made  to  say 
the  very  reverse  of  what  he  did  say. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN  — Mr. 
Speaker,  I  call  the  hon.  gentleman  to  order. 
I  have  not  found  fault  with  his  having 
spoken  for  three  hours.  I  did  not  interrupt 
him  whilst  he  spoke,  and  consequently  I  do 
not  choose  to  be  interrupted  myself.  T  do 
not  wish  to  put  words  into  his  mouth  which 
he  has  not  uttered,  but  I  wish  to  have  it 
understood  that  he  made  an  appeal  to  the 
English  of  Lower  Canada,  calling  upon  them 
to  reflect  on  the  fate  of  their  race  and  their  re- 
ligion, when  he  read  an  extract  from  the  report 
of  Lord  Durham,  the  hon.  gentleman  took 
very  good  care  to  read  it  in  English  only — 

Mr.  joly — I  protest  against  the  lan- 
guage of  the  hon.  member,  and  I  claim  the 
right  to  explain. 

Mr.  J.  B.  E.  DORION— It  is  not  so;  the 
hon.  member  for  Lotbinii^re  did  not  appeal  to 
religious  prejudices. 

Mr.  joly  —  I  desire  to  know,  Mr. 
Speaker,  whether  the  hon.  member  is  to  be 
allowed  to  assert  that  I  said  what  I  did  not 
say  '( 

Mr.  speaker— The  hon.  member  for 
Lotbinitre  is  entitled  to  explain  his  language, 
or  to  correct  the  Solicitor  General  alter  he 
has  finished  .speaking. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— 1  have 
the  lloor,  and  1  claim  tj  be  heard  without 
further  interruption. 

Mr.  J.  B.  E.  DORION— Goon;  but  state 
correctly  what  a  member  may  have  said. 

Hon.  Sol.  (Jen.  LANGEVIN  —  The 
hon.  gentleman  is  nut  pleased  that  an  atttick 
should  be  made  on  quo  of  his  frii-nds,  and 
yet  he  was  by  no  means  displeased  at  the 
language  used  by  the  hon.  member  for  Lot- 
bini^ro  last  night  when  speaking  of  my 
colleague  the  Hon.  Attorney  Geneial.  At  all 
events  1  will  not  be  interrupted. 


385 


Mr.  J.  B.  E.  DORION— This  is  the.  sort 
of  justice  to  be  expected  from  the  other  side 
of  the  House. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C ARTIER  -  You 
may  speak  when  you  like  ;  you  can  speak 
when  your  turn  comes,  but  we  shall  not  listen 
to  you. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— I  assert 
then  that  the  hon.  member  for  Lotbini^re 
has  appealed  to  the  passions,  seeking  to  have 
it  believed  on  the  one  hand  that  French  Ca- 
nadian nationality  and  the  Catholic  religion 
would  be  endangered  by  Confederation,  and 
on  the  other  hand  that  English  nationality 
and  the  Protestant  religion  would  be  exposed 
to  danger  in  Lower  Canada  under  the  local 
government.  He  cited  in  the  English  lau- 
guage  the  report  of  Lord  Durham,  to  induce 
the  belief  that  the  English  of  Lower  Canada 
would  never  consent  to  submit  to  a  legisla- 
ture, the  majority  of  which  would  be  French- 
Canadian  ;  but  ibr  my  part  I  am  not  of  that 
opinion,  and  I  think  that  they  will  submit 
to  it,  because  they  are  sure  that  they  will 
be  treated  with  justice.  ]t  ill  became 
that  hon.  gentleman  to  make  this  statement, 
when  he  is  himself  elected  lor  a  county  ex- 
clusively Catholic,  which  has  not  hesitated 
to  entrust  him  with  its  interests.  He  ought 
not  to  have  made  this  appeal,  as  he  himself 
is  a  living  proof  of  the  religious  tolerance 
and  liberality  of  our  compatriots.  Neither 
did  it  become  the  hon.  member  for  Hoche- 
laga  to  speak  as  he  did  to  the  same  effect, 
when  we  have  seen  a  large  and  important 
electoral  division — the  division  of  Lauren - 
tides — reject  a  venenible  gentleman  who 
presented  himself  for  reelection  to  the 
Legislative  Council,  a  maa  who  had  been  in 
political  life  for  more  than  twenty-five  years, 
to  elect  in  his  place  an  English  Protestant, 
Mr.  Price,  although  there  were  not  l,5UU 
Protestants  in  the  whole  division,  out  of  a 
population  of  50,000  souls.  The  election  of 
the  member  for  the  county  of  Megantic  (Mr, 
Irvine)  is  yet  another  evidence  of  the 
liberality  of  our  fellow-countrymen,  the 
majority  of  the  residents  in  that  county 
being  French-Canadians  and  Catholics. 

Mr.  J.  B.  E.  DORION— It  was  not  they 
who  sent  him  here. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— On  the 
contrary,  but  for  their  votes  he  would  not 
have  been  returned  to  Parliament  for  that 
county.  I  may  further  say,  Mr.  Speaker, 
that  the  presence  here  of  the  hon.  member 
for  Shefford  (Hon.  Mr.  Huntington),  that 
50 


ot  the  member  for  Chateauguay  (Hon.  Mr. 
Holton),  and  the  prcficnce  of  several  other 
members  afford  abundant  proof  of  the 
liberality  of  our  fellow-countrymen,  because 
those  honorable  members,  although  English 
and  Protestant,  represent  counties  the  great 
majority  of  the  population  in  each  of  which 
is  French-Canadian  and  Catholic.  The 
English  have  always  been  dealt  with  more 
liberally  than  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga 
himself  would,  perhaps,  treat  us  were  he  in 
power.  We  did  not  require  the  aid  of  the 
hon.  members  tor  Hochelaga  and  Lotbini^re 
for  the  protection  of  the  minorities  in  the 
Conference.  We  were  the  first  to  demand 
that  justice  should  be  extended  to  the 
Catholics  of  Upper  Canada  and  the  Protest- 
ants of  Lower  Canada,  because  we  desired 
to  establish  a  solid  work,  and  not  to  build 
on  the  sand  an  edifice  which  would  crumble 
to  dust  the  next  day.  The  English  of  Lower 
Canada  will  not  be  excited  by  the  appeals 
of  the  hon.  members,  because  they  know 
that  whatever  they  can  justly  claim  will  be 
conceded  to  them  without  difiiculty  and 
with  all  good  will.  Mr.  Speaker.,  although 
it  is  with  great  )  egret  that  I  have  to  ask  the 
continued  attention  of  the  House,  at  this  late 
period  of  the  evening,  yet  such  is  the  great 
importance  of  the  question  before  us,  that  I 
venture  to  hope  that  the  House  will  pardon 
me  for  presenting  at  such  length  my  views 
on  this  matter.  I  may  be  permitted,  I  hope, 
to  refute  another  assertion  made  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga.  That 
honorable  member,  who  has  found  something 
to  censure  in  every  article  of  the  scheme  of 
Confederation,  conceived  that  he  produced 
an  argument  that  would  be  irresistible  by 
asserting  that  the  distribution  of  the  debt 
was  unlair  and  burdensome  to  Lower  Canada. 
To  give  a  greater  force  to  this  argument, 
he  stated  that  Lower  Canada  entered  into  the 
union  with  a  debt  of  $400,000,  and  that 
she  would  leave  it  with  a  burden  of  $30,000,- 
000,  after  having  only  expended  in  the 
interval  the  snm  of  $12,0uO,000  for  public 
works  within  her  limits.  This  argument  is 
most  specious.  Supposing  that  our  debt  was 
.$40o,0U0,  and  that  to-day  it  is  $30,000,000, 
the  honjrable  member  must  at  all  events 
admit  that  the  circumstances  also  have  very 
much  changed.  At  the  time  of  the  union 
our  population  was  only  6oG,000,  and  to- day 
it  is  1,250,000.  The  honorable  member, 
too,  must  not  forget  that  at  the  time  of  the 
union  our  territory  only  produced  21,000,000 


386 


bushels  of  grain,  whilst  to-day  it  produces 
more  than  50,000,000  bushels.  At  the  time 
of  the  union  we  had  only  1,298  schools,  and 
to-day  we  have  3,600.  At  the  time  of  the 
union  these  schools  were  attended  only  by 
39,000  children,  whilst  to-day  the^  arc; 
attended  by  more  than  200,000.  At  the 
union  the  exportations  from  the  ports  of 
Quebec  and  Montreal  amounted  to  S9,000,- 
000;  to-day  they  exceed  S18,' '00,000.  At 
the  union  the  number  of  vessels  built 
annually  in  our  shipyards  was  48  only  ;  now 
we  have  88,  and  the  tonuage  is  quadrupled. 
At  the  time  of  the  union  our  importations 
amounted  to  §10,000,000,  and  to-day  they 
reach  §45,000,000.  At  the  time  of  the 
union  our  exportations  and  importations 
amounted  to  $  I  G,000,OUO  ;  to-day  they  reach 
the  enormous  sum  of  $87,000,000.  And 
it  is  with  such  figures  as  these  before  us 
that  we  are  to  be  told  that  we  are  leaving 
the  union  with  a  debt  of  §30,000,000  !  At 
the  time  of  the  union  the  revenue  arising 
from  the  tax  on  bank-LOtes,  which  affords  a 
fair  indication  of  the  extent  of  business 
done,  amounted  to  §2.200  ;  to-day  it  amounts 
to  $15,800.  At  the  time  of  the  union 
the  number  of  merchantmen  arriving  in 
Quebec  every  year  was  1,000 ;  now  it 
is  l,t>60,  and  the  number  of  vessels  ar- 
riving at  all  the  ports  in  J^ower  Canada 
is  2,463  At  the  time  of  the  union  the 
tonnage  of  these  vessels  was  295,000  tons, 
and  now  in  the  port  of  Quebec  it  is  807,000 
tons,  and  for  the  whole  of  Lower  Canada 
1,041,000  tons.  At  the  time  of  the  union 
25,000  sailors  arrived  here  annually;  now  we 
have  35,000.  In  1S3!)  the  revenue  of 
Lower  Canada  was  §588, OOC;  when  we 
enter  the  Confederacy,  although  we  are  not 
culled  upon  to  pay  any  of  the  cxpendi(ure 
for  general  purposes,  our  revenue  will  be 
$1,446,000,  that  is  tos>»y  thatwe  shall  have, 
under  the  C'oufederation,  a  revenue  three 
times  as  large  as  it  was  at  the  time  of  the 
union;  and  instead  of  having,  as  wo  then 
had,  ijn  excess  of  expenditure  amounting  to 
about  §80,000,  the  total  expenditure  of 
Lower  Ca-'ida,  under  the  Confederation,  will 
be  about  §1,200,000,  leaving  a  surplus  of 
uion.  than  $200,000  !  If  then  (mr  debt  has 
increased,  we  have  njade  mo.nt  rapid  pro- 
gress, and  we  have  received  the  full  value 
tor  our  nion(!y.  Nor  must  it  be  iDrgotten 
that  at  the  time  of  tiio  union  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  the  country  had  not  a  uinglo 
railway,  and  now  it  iti  traversed  from  cud  to 


end  by  one  of  the  finest  railways  on  this 
continent;  and  ere  long,  let  us  hope  in 
the    interest    of    our    commerce    and   our 


safety,  that  this  iron  band  will  connect  the 
extreme  west  with  the  Atlantic  ocean. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  entered  the  union  when 
the  Welland  canal  had  hardly  been  begun  ; 
we  leave  it  with  one  of  the  most  magnificent 
canal  systems  the  world  has  ever  .«een.  And 
then  the  telegraph  lines.  At  the  time  of  the 
union  the  only  tilegraph  we  had  was  that  one 
with  balls,  which  so  many  of  us  remember, 
and  which  used  to  connect  the  citadel  with 
the  Island  of  Orleans,  a'ld  thence  communi- 
cated with  Grosse  Isle  by  a  telegraph  of  the 
sane  kind;  now  an  immense  network  of 
telegraph  wires  places  us  in  daily  and 
immediate  communication  with  the  most 
remote  districts  in  the  different  provinces. 
We  leave  the  union  with  a  debt  greater 
than  that  with  which  we  entered  it, 
but  we  leave  it  with  a  most  perfect  system 
of  lighthouses,  wharves,  pieis,  slides,  in  fact 
with  a  large  number  of  other  public  works, 
which  have  mainly  contributed  to  the  settle- 
ment and  the  prosperity  of  the  country,  and 
which  have  more  than  doubled  its  resources 
since  the  union.  The  Grand  Trunk  Railway 
alone,  for  the  sixteen  millions  which  it  has 
cost  ua,  has  contributed  to  increase  the 
value  of  uur  lands  by  millions  and  millions 
of  dollars,  by  enhancing  the  value  of  our 
agricultural  productions,  which  are  by  its 
means  brought  with  greater  ease  t)  the 
different  markets,  and  has  moreover  entailed 
an  expenditure  in  our  midst  of  more  than 
seventy  millions  of  dollars  for  its  construction 
alone.  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  if  we  entered  the 
union  with  a  debt  of  four  hundred  thousand 
dollars,  and  if  to-day  we  leave  it  with  a  debt 
of  thirty  millions  of  dollars,  we  can  at  all 
events  show  what  we  have  done  with  the 
money,  by  the  immense  extent  of  territory, 
then  uncleared,  which  is  now  covered  with 
abundant  crops,  and  which  have  served  to 
keep  in  the  country,  not  indeed  all  the  child- 
ren of  our  farmers,  but  at  least  a  very  groat 
number  of  them,  who  but  for  these  impro- 
vements would  have  emigrated  m  umsse  to  the 
neighboring  couniry.  Under  the  Confedera- 
tion wo  shall  have  the  control  of  our  lands,  and 
we  can  settle  them  fo  as  to  retain  in  our 
mi  ist  all  those  of  the  rising  generation  of 
both  origin.s  who  too  oiten  take  to  a  foreign 
land  their  strong  liyht  arms,  their  energy 
and  devotion.  Our  mineral  lauds,  so  rich  and 
80  productive,  tho  opening  up  of  which  has 


387 


hardly  been  beguD,  will  also  be  a  source  of 
enormous  revenue  to  the  country,  and  will 
largely  contribute  to  increase  the  sum  of  our 
population,    by   keeping  in    Canada   many 
men     who    would     have    gone    in    search 
of  fortune  elsewhere,    and   it   inspires   me 
with    still  greater   confidence    that    Provid- 
ence has  been  pleased  to  join  to  His  other 
blessings  conferred   upon  us,  the  possession 
of    mines    the    richest     and    perhaps    the 
most  abundant  in  tbe  world.     As  regards 
our  fisheries,  they  were  hardly  opened  up  at 
the  time  of  the  union  ;  and  now,  although 
much  more  may  be  done  with  them,  it  is, 
nevertheless,  undeniable  that  every  year  they 
are  more  and  more  developed,  and  that  they 
are  destined,  at  no  distant  period,  to  be  a 
source  of  immense  revenue  to  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)     There  are  many  other  points 
of  view,  Mr.  Speaker,  from  which  we  might 
examine   the   advantages   we   have    derived 
■  from  the   union   of  the   Canadas,  in  return 
for  the  sacrifice  we  have  imposed  upon  our- 
selves.     We   might    look    at   the    political 
position  we  occupied  at  that  period.       We 
should  see  that  we  had  just  come  out  of  a 
terrible  crisis,  during  which  blood  had  been 
spilt  on  battle-fields  and  elsewhere  3  our  Con- 
stitution had  been  suspended,  and  the  whole 
country   had  witnessed    scenes  such   as   its 
inhabitants,  hitherto  happy  and  prosperous, 
had    never   seen    before.      Now    we    enjoy 
responsible   government,   one    of   the    most 
glorious  of  England's  institutions,  and  one 
that  has  stood  the  test  of  ages.     This  great 
constitutional  guarantee  we  take  with  us  into 
the  Confederation,  into  which  we  are  about 
to  enter  in  a  state  of  peace  and  prosperity, 
with  hafipiness  in  our  midst,  and  with  the 
conviction    thai   this  peace,   this  pro.^perity 
and  this  happiness  will  be  made  more  lasting 
than  ever.     We  enter  it  with  the  legitimate 
and  patriotic  aim  ot  placing  our  country  in 
a   position   more  worthy   of  our   population 
and   of    greater   importance,    and    meriting 
higher  consideration  from   foreign  nations. 
The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga,  not  content 
with     calling    up    past    events,    has     also 
alluded   to   the   constitution    of    the    courts 
of  law  in    Lower    Canada  under   the  Con- 
federacy.   He  declared  that  he  did  not  under- 
stand  the  meaning  of   that  article   of   the 
resolutions  which  leaves  to  the  Central  Gov- 
ernment   the    appointment    of    the    judges, 
whilst  by  another  article  it  is  provided  that  the 
constitution  and  maintenance  of  the  courts 
was  entrusted  to  the  Local  Parliament.     The 
honorable  member  should  have  observed  that 


by  the  powers  conferred  on  the  local  govern- 
ments, Lower  Canada  retains  all  her  civil 
rights,  as  prescribed  by  the  17th  paragraph  of 
article  43,  as  follows : — 

The  administration  of  justice,  including  the 
constitution,  maintenance  and  organizatiou  of  the 
courts,  both  of  civil  and  criminal  jurisdiction,  and 
including  also  the  procedure  in  civil  matters. 

This  is  a  privilege  which  has  been  granted  to  us 
and  which  we  shall  retain,  because  our  civil  laws 
difier  from  those  of  the  other  provinces  of 
the  Confederation.    This  exception,  like  many 
others,  has  been  expressly  made  for  the  pro- 
tection of  us  Lower  Canadians.     It  was  our 
desire,  as  the  representatives  of  Lower  Can- 
ada at  the  Conference,  that  we  should  have 
under  the  control  of  our  Local  Legislature  the 
constitution  and  organization  of  our  courts  of 
justice,  both  civil  and  criminal,  so  that  our 
legislature  might  possess  full  power  over  our 
courts,  and  the  right  to  establish  or  modify 
them  if  it  thought  expedient.     But,  on  the 
other  hand,  the  appointment  of  the  judges  of 
these  courts  had  to  be  given,  as  it  has  been, 
to  the  Central  Government,  and  the  reason  of 
this  provision  is  at  once  simple,  natural  and 
just.      In  the  Confederacy  we  shall  have  a 
Central  Parliament  and   local  legislatures. — 
Well,  I  ask  any  reasonable  man,  any  man  of 
experience,  does  he  thiijk  that,  with  the  am- 
bition which  must  naturally  stimulate  men  of 
mark  and  talent  to  display  their  powers  on 
the    theatre    most  worthy    of  their  talents, 
these  men  will  consent  to  enter  the  local  legis- 
latures rather  than  the  Federal  Parliament? 
Is  it  not  more  likely  and  more  reasonable  to 
suppose  that  they  would  rather  appear  and 
shine  on  the  largest  stage,  on  that  in  which 
they  can  render  the  greatest  service  to  their 
country,  and  where  the  rewards  of  their  ser- 
vices will  be  the  highest  ?     Yes,  these  men 
will  prefer  to  go  to  the  Central  Parliament, 
and  among  them  there  will  be  doubtless  many 
of  our  most  distinguished  members  of  the 
legal  profession.     The  members  of  this  pro- 
fession are  often  accused  of  going  into  Parlia- 
ment for  the   purpose   of  monopolizing   the 
representation.    If  this  be  the  case  at  the  pres- 
ent time,  is  it  not  to  be  supposed  that  they  will 
do    the    same    thing   under    Confederation  ? 
Were  the  appointment  of  the  judges  left  to 
the  local  legislatures,  the  local  governments 
would  be  subjected  to  a  pressure  which  might 
be  brought  to  bear  upon  them  by  the  first  ad- 
vocate who  would  attain  influence  in  the  Local 
Legislature.     To  get  rid  of  an  inconvenient 
member  who  might  have  three  or  four  follow- 
ers, the  Local  Government  would  have  to  take 


388 


this  troublesome  advocate  of  the  second,  third 
or  fourth  order  of  talent,  and  place  him  on 
the  bench,  whilst  by  leaving  these  appoint- 
ments to  the  Central  Government,  we  are  sat- 
isfied that  the  selection   will  be  made   from 
men  of   the  highest  order  of  qualifications, 
that  the  external  -ind  local  pressure  will  not  be 
so  great,  and  that  the  Government  will  be  in  a 
position  to  act  more  freely.     It  may  be  re- 
marked, in  passing,  that  in  the  proposed  Con- 
stitution there  is   an   article  which  provides 
that  the  judges  of  the  courts  of  Lower  Can- 
ada shall  be  appointed  from  the  members  of 
the  bar  of  that  section.     This  exception  was 
only  made  in  favor  of  Lower  Canada,  and  it 
is  a  substantial  guarantee  for  those  who  fear 
the  proposed  system.     Besides,  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga,  who  fancies  that  he 
sees  danger  in  the  powers  given  to  the  Central 
Government,  knows  by  experience,  as  having 
himself  been  a  minister  of  the  Crown,  that  in 
respect  of  every  appointment  of  a  judge  the 
Cabinet  always  consults  the  ministers  for  the 
section  in   which  the  appointment  is  to  be 
made,  and  accepts  their  choice.     The  same 
l)ractice  would  necessarily  be  followed  by  the 
Central  Government,  who  would  be  forced  to 
respect  it,  because  behind  the  ministers  from 
each  section  would  be  found  the  members  from 
that   section,  and  behind  our  ministers    for 
Lower  Canada  will   be  found   the  sixty-five 
members  whom  we  shall  have  sen*^i  to  repre- 
sent and  protect  our  interests  in  the  Federal 
Parliament.      It  is  then  advantageous,   and 
there  could  be  no  danger  in  the  provision  that 
the  judges  should  be  appointed  by  the  Central 
Government;  indeed,   it  is  for  our  interest, 
and  the  interest  of  all,  that  it  should  be  so. 
And  although  it  may  be  looked  upon  as  a 
secondary  consideration,  yet  it  may  as  well  be 
mentioned  now,  that  by  leaving  the  appoint- 
ment of  our  judges  to  the  Central   Govern- 
ment, we    are    the   gainers  by  one  hundred 
thousand  dollars,  which  will  have  to  be  paid 
ior  their  services  by  the  central  power.     This 
consideration  will  perhaps  have  some  weight 
with   the    honorable    member  for  Hochelaga, 
who  makes  such  an  outcry  to  alarm  the  peo- 
ple that  we  shall  be  obliged  to  have  recourse 
to  direct  taxation  to  defray   the  expenses  of 
our  Local  JiCgislature.     Notwithstanding   the 
advanced  hour  of  the  evening,  I  cannot  pass 
over  in  silence  aaother  observation  made  by  i 
the  honorable  member,  and   I  beg  he  will  ac-  ' 
cord  mo  his  undivided    attention  at  the  pro- 
Bent  moment.     The  honorable  gontleniaa  has 
asked  the  Government  what  meaning  was  to  ' 
be  attached  to  the  word  "  marriaj^e,' 


Where 


it  occurred  in  the  Constitution.  He  desired 
to  know  whether  the  Government  proposed 
to  leave  to  the  Central  Government  the  right 
of  deciding  at  what  age,  for  example,  mar- 
riage might  be  contracted.  I  will  now  an- 
swer the  honorable  gentleman  as  categorically 
as  possible,  for  I  am  anxious  to  be  under- 
stood, not  only  in  this  House,  but  also  by  all 
those  who  may  hereafter  read  the  report  of 
our  proceedings.  And  first  of  all  I  will 
prove  that  civil  rights  form  part  of  those 
which,  by  article  43  (paragraph  15)  of  the 
resolutions,  are  guaranteed  to  Lower  Canada. 
This  paragraph  reads  as  follows  : — 

15.  Propertv  and  civil  rights,  excepting  those 
portioas  thereof  assigned  to  the  General  Parlia- 
ment. 

Well,  amongst  these  rights  are  all  the 
civil  laws  of  Lower  Canada,  and  among 
these  latter  those  which  relate  to  marriage; 
now  it  was  of  the  highest  importance 
that  it  should  be  so  under  the  proposed  sys- 
tem, and  therefore  the  members  from  Lower 
Canada  at  the  Conference  took  great  care  to 
obtain  the  reservation  to  the  Local  Govern- 
ment of  this  important  right,  and  in  consent- 
ing to  allow  the  word  "  marriage  "  after  the 
word  ''divorce,"  the  delegates  have  not  pro- 
posed to  take  away  with  one  hand  from  the 
Local  Legislature  what  they  had  reserved  to  it 
by  the  other.  So  that  the  word  "  marriage," 
placed  where  it  is  among  the  powers  of  the 
Central  Parliament,  has  not  the  extended  signi- 
fication which  was  sought  to  be  given  to  it  by  the 
honorable  member.  With  the  view  of  being 
more  explicit,  I  now  propose  to  read  how  the 
word  marriage  is  proposed  to  be  understood : — 

The  word  marriage  has  been  placed  in  the  draft 
of  the  pioj>u8ed  Constitution  to  invest  the  Feder- 
al Parliament  with  the  right  of  declaring  what 
marriages  shall  be  held  and  deemed  to  be  valid 
thp'Ughout  the  whole  extent  of  the  Conlederiicv, 
without,  however,  interfering  in  any  particular 
with  iho  doctrines  or  rites  of  the  religious  creeds 
to  which  the  contracting  parties  may  belong. 

This  is  a  point  of  great  importance,  and  the 
French  Canadian  members  ought  to  rejoice 
Ui  see  that  their  fellow-countrymen  in  tlie 
Govern njcnt  have  not  failed  in  their  duty  on 
a  (juestion  of  so  serious  a  nattire.  On  many 
other  points  many  of  thorn  will  doubtless 
claim  that  we  have  not  tln>nniiildy  fufilled 
our  duty,  but  as  regards  the  matter  in  ((ue»- 
tion  there  can  be  no  dilToreneo  of  opinion,  as 
we  h  ive  all  a  common  rule  to  guide  us ;  and 
I  H'peat  that  they  ought  to  rejoice  that  their 
co-religionists  in  tlie  (\mferonec  liavc  not  been 
found  wanting  on  tliis  occasion.     The  whole 


389 


may  be  summed  up  as  follows  : — The  Central 
Parliament  may  decide  that  any  marriage 
contracted  in  Upper  Canada,  or  in  any  other 
of  the  Confederated  Pro\iinces,  in  accordance 
with  the  laws  of  the  country  in  which  it  was 
contracted,  although  that  law  might  be  differ- 
ent from  ours,  should  be  deemed  valid  in 
Lower  Canada  in  case  the  parties  should 
come  to  reside  there,  and  vice  versa. 

HOxN.  Mr.  DORION— There  was  no  ne- 
cessity for  that  provision. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  L ANGEVIN— I  have 
just  proved  that  it  was  necessary. 

Mr.  ARCHAMBEAULT— I  would  ask 
of  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General  if  a  marriage 
contracted  in  the  United  States,  before  a  ma- 
gistrate, and  not  according  to  canonical  laws, 
would  be  deemed  valid  in  Lower  Canada  ? 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— It  would 
be  so,  from  a  civil  point  of  view,  if  it  were  con- 
tracted in  accordance  with  the  laws  of  the 
state  in  which  it  was  celebrated. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— if  a  marriage  con- 
tracted in  the  United  States  is  valid  here,  as 
a  matter  of  course  a  marriage  contracted  in 
a  British  colony  in  conformity  with  the  laws 
of  the  country  must  be  valid ;  therefore  the 
explanation  of  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General  is 
inadmissible,  or  the  resolution  is  useless. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— The  hon- 
orable member  for  Verchdres  does  not  choose 
to  be  convinced  ;  so  I  will  make  no  further  at- 
tempt to  convince  him.  The  resolution  in 
question  signifies  just  what  I  have  stated. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— That  is  to  say,  it 
means  nothing  at  all. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— I  beg  your 
pardon,  it  means  that  a  marriage  contracted 
in  no  matter  what  part  of  the  Confederacy, 
will  be  valid  in  Lower  Canada,  if  contracted 
according  to  the  laws  of  the  country  in  which 
it  takes  place  ;  but  also,  when  a  marriage  is  con- 
tracted in  any  province  contrary  to  its  laws,  al- 
though in  conformity  with  the  laws  of  another 
province,  it  will  not  be  considered  valid. 
Let  us  now  examine  the  question  of  divorce. 
We  do  not  intend  either  to  establish  or  to 
recognize  a  new  right ;  we  do  not  mean  to 
admit  a  thing  to  which  we  have  constantly  re- 
fused to  assent,  but  at  the  Conference  the  ques- 
tion arose,  which  legislature  should  exercise 
the  different  powers  which  already  exist  in  the 
constitutions  of  the  different  provinces.  Now, 
among  these  powers  which  have  been  already 
and  frequently  exercised  de  facto,  is  this 
of  divorce.  As  a  member  of  the  Conference, 
without  admitting  or  creating  any  new  right 
in  this  b«half,  and  while  declaring,  as  I  now 


do,    that  as   Catholics  we   acknowledge  no 
power  of  divorce,  I  found  that  we   were  to 
decide  in  what  legislative  body  the  authority 
should  be  lodged  which  we  found  in  our  Con- 
stitutions.    After  mature   consideration,  we 
resolved  to  leave  it  in  the  Central  Legislature, 
tliinking  thereby  to  increase  the  difficulties  of 
a  procedure  which  is  at  present  so  easy.     We 
thought  then,  as  we  still  think,  that  in   this 
we  took  the  most  prudent  course.     The  fol- 
lowing illustration  will   prove  this  still  more 
forcibly.     It  is   known    to   the    Hou-e   how 
zealous  a  partisan  the  honorable  member  for 
Brome  ( Mr.  Dunkin)  is  of  the  cause  of  tem- 
perance.     Well,   we  will  suppose  that  the 
honorable  gentleman  were  present  as  a  mem- 
ber of  a  municipal  council  in  which  it  was  to 
be  decided  whether  all  the  taverns  in  a  very 
populous  part  of  the  parish,  which  could  not 
be  suppressed,  should  be  banished  to  a  remote 
corner  of  the  parish,  where  they  would   no 
longer  be  a  temptation  and  a  stumbling-block  ; 
would    he    not   vote   for   such  a    measure  ? 
Would  he  not  send  them  to  a  place  where 
they  would  be  least  accessible  to  the  popula- 
tion, and  would  he  not  think  he  had  done  a 
meritorious  act,    an   act   worthy  of  a    good 
friend  of  the  temperance  cause  ?       Just  so 
in  a  question  of  divorce ;  the  case  is  exactly 
analogous.      We   found   this   power  existing 
in    the    constitutions   of    the    different    pro- 
vinces, and  not  being  able  to  get  rid  of  it, 
we  wished  to  banish  it  as  far  from  us  as  pos- 
sible.    One  thing  it  would  be  vain  to  deny, 
namely,  that  although  we,  as  Catholics,  do  not 
admit  the  liberty  of  divorce,  altl^.ough  we  hold 
the  marriage  bond  to  be  indissoluble,  yet  there 
are  cases  in  which  we  both  admit  and  require 
the  annulling  of  the  marriage  tie — in  cases, 
for  instance,  where  a  marriage  has  been  con- 
tracted within  the  prohibited  degrees  without 
the  necessary   dispensations.     An  instance  of 
this  occurred  very  recently.     A  few  months 
since,  an  individual  belonging  to  my  county, 
who  had  married  a  young  girl  of  a  neighboring 
parish,  without  being  aware  at  the  time  of  his 
marriage   of  the   relationship   which   existed 
between  him  and  his  wife,  found  out  several 
months  afterwards  that  they  were  related  in 
such  a  degree  that  they  required  a  dispensa- 
tion from  the  bishop.     That  dispensation  had 
not  been  obtained.     He  spoke  of  it  to  his  wife, 
who  refused  to  apply  for  a  dispensation,  as  a 
step   towards   the   legal  celebration    of  their 
marriage.     It  became  necessary,  therefore,  to 
have  the  marriage  annulled.     The  affair  was 
brought  before  the  Ecclesiastical  Court,  and, 
after  a  minute    investigation,   the    diocesan 


390 


bishop  gave  judgment,  declaring  the  marriage 
null  in  a  canonical  sense.     Regarded  in  a  civil 
point  of  view,    the  marriage  was  still    valid 
until  it  should  have  been  declared  null  by  a 
civil    tribunal.     It  became  necessary,  there- 
i'ore,  to  Ciirry  the  cause  before  the  Superior 
Court,  and  my  honorable  friend,  the  member 
for  Beauce,  who  took  the  case  in  hand  with 
his  usual  zeal  and  legal  address,  obtained  from 
the  court,  after  a  suitable  inquiry,  a  judgment 
declaring  the  raarri  ge  null  in  a  civil   sense, 
and  ordering  that  it  should  be  registered  as 
such  in  all  places  where  it  should  be  needful. 
If  this  aflfair  had  occurred  in  Upper  Canada, 
what  recourse  would  the  parties  have  had  ? 
The  parties  being  Catholics,  the  case  would 
have   been   brought  before  the   bishop,   who 
would  also  have  declared   the  marriage   null 
after  suitable  inquiry;  but  the  cause  would 
not  have  had  the  same  conclui-ion  in  the  civil 
court,  particularly  had  it  depended  on  certain 
impediments  which  have  force  in  Lower  Can- 
ada,  but  none  in  Upper  Canada.     It  would 
have  become  necessary  to  go  to  Parliament  to 
pray  for  an   act,  which,  in  a  Catholic  point  of 
view,  would  be  a  mere  decree  of  separation, 
b\it  which  the  Parliament  would  have  termed 
an    act  of  divorce.    .This  power  to  grant  a 
separation  is  therefore  necessarily  vested  in 
the  Parliament,  by  whatever  name  such  separ- 
ation may  be  designated,   and  we  are  not  to 
be  reproached   lor   the   interpretation   which 
others  may  give  to  such  name,  different  from 
that  which   we  assign   to  it.      I  thought  it 
right   to   make    myself    understood   on    this 
point,  because  I  do  not  choose  that  people 
should  be  able  to  S;jy  we  are  afraid  of  explain- 
ing our  position  with   regard  to  the  question 
of  divorce  and  marriage,  and  I  believe  that  I 
have   shown   that   our   position   is  consistent 
with  our  religious  laws  and  our  principles  as 
Catholics.     I  regret  that  I  have  dwelt  so  long 
on  the  matters  touched  upon  by  the  honorable 
niember  for  Hochelaga;   but  alter  his  speech, 
and  considering  the  position  he  as.sumed,  he 
must  have  expected  an   answer.     And,  hav- 
ing done  with    him,  I  come  to  the   honorable 
member   for    Lotbiiiiere  (iMr.  JoLY).      That 
hitnorable  member  has  endeavored   to  prove 
that  all    confederations    die  of  cnnsuiiiptioii. 
and  has  cited,  in  support  of  liis  argument,  tlie 
political  condition  of  the  Spanish  rtipublics  oi' 
South  America.      Why  did  he  say  nothing  of 
tlie  Germanic  Confederation  ?     lihe  hud  men- 
tioned that,  lie  would  have  had  to  confess  that 
it  had  proved  u  success.      He  would  have  siiid 
also    th.it    it   IS  ii  monarchical    confederation 
oouwBliug  of  thirty-one  states,   the  chiefii  ot 


which  are  almost  all  kings,  princes,  or  electors. 
There  are  not  more  than  four  or  five  states 
which  are  not  monarchical,  and,  nevertheless, 
that  confederation  works  well. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— Are  they  sovereign 

Hon.  Sol.  Ge.n.  LANGEVIN— Yes,  but 

they  have  done  what  we  are  now  about  to  do. 
In  order  to  hold  their  own  among  the  great  pow- 
ers, and  not  to  be  at  the  mercy  of  the  first 
who  might  choose  to  assail  their  rights,  they 
have  united  their  strength  because  they  con- 
ceived that  "  union  is  strength."  When  the 
honorable  member  lor  Lotbini^re  was  talking 
about  the  weakness  inherent  in  confedera- 
tions, he  ought  to  have  recollected  late  events 
iu  Italy,  as  they  happened  a  few  years  ago. 
He  should  have  called  to  mind  the  conquests 
of  Garibaldi,  and  reflected  that  if  he  had  suc- 
ceeded in  overcoming  a  number  of  petty  states 
and  even  the  kingdom  of  Naples  for  the  bene- 
fit of  the  king  of  Sardinia,  it  was  because  the 
Italian  States,  being  divided  as  he  found 
them,  were  too  weak  to  resist  an  invasion,  and 
that,  had  they  been  confederated,  neither  Gari- 
baldi nor  Victor  Emmanuel  would  ever  have 
succeeded  in  getting  the  upper  hand  of  them. 
And  what  happened  when  the  little  st^ites  of 
Italy  were  banded  together  with  Piedmont  ? 
This  happened  —  when  Garibaldi  aimed  at 
making  conquests  on  his  own  account,  he  soon 
found  out  that  the  small  states  no  longer  ex- 
isted, and  that  a  large  state  had  been  Ibrmed 
out  of  their  fragments,  the  consequence  of 
which  was  that  he  was  beaten  at  Aspramcnte. 
The  honorable  member  says  that  our  connection 
with  the  Mother  Country,  under  the  Confedera- 
tion, would  be  one  of  paper,  and  that  the  Up- 
per Canadians  would  detest  the  Lower  Cana- 
dians. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— He  did  not  say  that 
such  things  would  be,  but  that  such  might  be 
the  effect  of  Confederation. 

Hon.  Sol.  Ge.v.  LANGEVIN  — Why 
should  such  bo  the  effect  of  Confederation  ? 
No  questions  will  be  decided  in  the  Federal 
Parlianient  but  such  as  relate  to  general  mat- 
ters. Jjocal  matters  will  not  be  treated  of, 
nor  questions  of  race,  of  religion,  or  of  insti- 
tutions peculiar  to  the  sevenu  provinces,  and 
eonsetjuently  there  can  be  no  collision  of 
opinions  on  such  (|uestionB.  Such  a  fear, 
therefore,  is  quite  unfounded,  'i'he  honorable 
member  sajs,  tnoreover,  that  the  Confedera- 
tion would  lead  rather  to  divide  than  to  unite 
us,  that  civil  war  would  be  the  result,  and  that 
the  Upper  Canadians  would  rather  be  annexed 
to  the  United  State*  than  nubjected  to  Lower 


391 


Canadian  rule.  For  my  part,  I  beliere  no 
such  thing.  I  believe  that  the  Upper  Cana- 
dians are  too  loyal  to  wish  to  be  annexed  to 
the  United  States.  They  are  quit«  disposed 
to  trade  with  their  neighbors,  to  keep  up  a 
good  understanding  with  them,  but  they  do 
not  wish  to  be  annexed.  The  honorable 
member  for  Lotbini^re,  getting  over  his  fears 
and  predictions  and  speaking  of  the  sixty-five 
members  from  Lower  Canada,  put  the  fol- 
lowing question — "  Suppose  the  population  in 
Lower  Canada  should  in  ten  years  increase 
thirty-four  per  cent.,  while  that  of  the  other 
provinces  increases  only,  thirty  per  cent., 
would  it  not  be  unjust  to  Lower  Canada  that 
the  number  of  its  representatives  should 
remain  the  same,  should  still  be  sixty-five, 
while  that  of  the  other  provinces  will  be  in- 
creased ;  while  in  any  case  the  number  of  re- 
presentatives from  the  other  provinces  is  not 
to  be  diminished  unless  their  population 
should  diminish  five  per  cent  ?"  This  point 
is  very  important,  but  we  must  observe  that 
whatever  the  increase  of  the  population  in 
the  other  provinces,  the  part  from  Lower 
Canada  is  fixed  and  known.  Thus,  for 
instance,  if  the  population  of  Upper  Can- 
ada should  increase  more  than  that  of 
Lower  Canada,  the  latter  will  always  have 
sixty-five  members,  the  other  provinces  re- 
ceiving such  increased  number  of  repre- 
sentatives as  their  increased  population 
would  entitle  them  to.  But  the  resolutions 
do  not  prevent  Lower  Canada  from  having 
more  than  sixty-five  representatives,  if  its 
population  should  increase  faster  than  that  of 
the  other  provinces.  The  French  translation 
of  these  resolutions  is  erroneous,  for  it  says 
that  "  for  the  purpose  of  determining  the 
number  of  representatives  from  each  province 
at  the  end  of  eveiy  decennial  census.  Lower 
Canada  shall  never  have  either  more  or  less 
than  sixty-five  representatives,"  whereas  the 
English  version  of  the  resolutions,  which  is 
the  official  version,  says :  "  Lower  Canada 
shall  always  be  assigned  sixty-five  members." 
This  does  not  mean  that  Lower  Canada  can 
never  have  more  than  sixty-five  members,  but 
that  it  can  not  have  less  than  sixty-five  mem- 
bers. That  is,  I  think,  a  categorical  answer 
to  the  honorable  member's  objection.  If  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbini6re  were  here,  I 
would  answer  him  on  other  points ;  but  1  will 
not  attack  him  as  he  last  night  attacked  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General.  The  honorable 
member  compared  the  conduct  of  the  Honor- 
able Attorney  General,  in  moving  the  scheme 
of  Confederation,  to  that  of  a  man  who,  pre- 


siding over  a  savings  bank  in  which  every  one 
came  to  deposit  his  savings,  having  confidence 
in  his  honesty,  should  some  fine  day  turn  de- 
faulter, betray  their  confidence  and  ruin 
them.  He  said  that  the  honesty  of  the  Hon- 
orable Attorney  General  for  Lower  Canada 
had  yielded  to  the  temptation  of  honors,  titles 
and  places,  and  that  he  had  forgotten  all  his 
obligations  and  duties  and  sold  his  fellow-citi- 
zens. I  shall  not  retort  on  the  honorable 
member,  but  I  shall  take  upon  me  to  continue 
the  comparison  made  by  him  and  tell  him 
that  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  has  in 
fact  opened  a  savings  bank  and  has  invited 
every  one  to  deposit  in  it  his  title  deeds  and 
his  savings.  Accordingly  we  find  one  day  the 
seigniors  and  the  censitaires  coming  and  de- 
positing in  his  keeping  their  title  deeds,  theii- 
lands  and  all  they  have.  These  the  Honor- 
able Attorney  General  takes  and'  deposits  in 
his  bank,  and  when  he  is  called  upon  to  re- 
store them,  when  he  is  required  to^  account 
for  them,  he  pays  as  never  man  paid  before 
him;  to  the  censitaires,  instead  of  their  title 
deeds  burthened  with  mortgages,  loch  ef  ventes, 
e-orveei  and  all  sorts  of  services  and  duties,  he 
restores  their  lands  free  from  all  burthens ; 
while  to  the  seigniors  he  tenders  the  full 
value  of  their  seigniorial  rights ;  and  if  this 
day  there  are  seigniors  holding  a  hundred 
thousand  acres  of  land  in  full  right  of  proper- 
ty, which  they  can  safely  estimate  as  worth 
eight  dollars  per  acre,  they  may  thank  the 
Honorable  .the  Attorney  General  for  Lower 
Canada  for  it.  The  suitors  in  our  courts 
come  next;  they  were  oppressed  with  enor- 
mous costs,  wliich  amounted  almost  to  a  de- 
nial of  justice ;  they  went  and  deposited  their 
briefs,  declarations  and  pleas  in  the  Honor- 
able Attorney  General's  savings  bank,  and  he 
returned  them,  giving  them  at  the  same  time 
judicial  decentralisation  and  diminished  costs 
of  suit.  Thus  it  is  that  he  has  earned  the  re- 
spec:  and  gratitude  of  his  fellow-citizens.  It  is 
the  same  as  regards  the  inhabitants  of  the 
townships ;  in  place  of  their  ambiguous  civil  law, 
he  gave  them  a  civil  law  applying  to  the  whole 
of  Lower  Canada,  the  townships  as  well  as 
the  seigniories;  and  all  are  now  unanimous  in 
expressions  of  gratitude  towards  the  Hon.  Atty. 
General  for  extricating  them  from  the  judicial 
chaos  in  which  they  were  involved.  Pleaders, 
advocates,  in  fact  the  whole  country,  deposit- 
ed their  complaints  in  the  Hon.  Atty.  General's 
hands,  and  at  the  end  of  five  years  he  has 
given  them  a  civil  code  which  will  do  honor  to 
Lower  Canada,  honor  to  the  three  distinguish- 
ed Codification  Commissioners  selected  by  the 


392 


Hon.  Atty.  General,  whose  name  it  will  trans- 
mit to  posterity.  Yea,  Lis  name  is  attached 
to  that  work,  and  the  attacks  of  the  honorable 
member  for  Lotbinit're  will  hardly  prevent 
that  name  from  going  down  to  our  descend- 
ants surrounded  with  the  respect  of  all  those 
who  know  the  services  he  has  rendered  to  his 
country.  But  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
for  Lower  Canada  was  not  satisfied  with  these 
services.  In  the  midst  of  a  terrible  crisis  his 
country  confided  to  him  all  its  interests,  all 
its  rights,  all  its  institutions,  its  nationality, 
its  religion,  in  a  word  everj'thing  it  held  most 
dear.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General  received 
the  whole  trust  into  his  safe  and  faithful  keep- 
ing, and  when  called  upon  to  render  an  ac- 
count, he  exhibited  all  these  interests,  rights, 
institutions,  our  nationality  and  religion,  in 
fact  everything  that  the  people  held  dear,  and 
restored  them  guaranteed,  protected  and  sur- 
rounded by  every  safeguard,  in  the  Confeder- 
ation of  the  British  North  American  Provin- 
ces. He  has  been  a  faithful  banker,  and  has 
not  betrayed  the  trust  reposed  in  him,  he  has 
honestly  p  lid  his  debt ;  rich  and  poor,  seigniors 
and  censiiaires,  advocates  and  pleaders,  all 
have  received  their  due,  and  the  banker  is 
blessed  from  one  end  of  the  province  to  the 
other.  The  honorable  member  says  that  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  will  have  his  reward. 
He  is  right ;  my  honorable  colleague  will  have 
his  reward — his  day  will  come  as  did  that  of 
the  late  Sir  Louis  Hypoute  Lafontaine. 
When  that  eminent  citizen  held  tlie  position 
occupied  today  by  the  Hon.  Attorney  General, 
the  opposition  heaped  upon  him  the  same  re- 
proaches, the  same  insults  that  are  now  ofl'ored 
to  my  honorable  friend.  He  was  accused  of 
being  a  traitor  to  his  country  ;  it  was  broadly 
asserted  that  he  was  selling  his  fellow-citizens, 
and  that  he  was  the  enemy  of  his  race. 
Nevertheless,  that  defender  of  the  rights  and 
mstitutions  of  Lower  Canada  had  but  one 
ambition,  namely,  to  secure  for  his  fellow- 
countrymen  the  splendid  position  they  have 
ever  since  occupied.  He  let  the  disaflected 
continue  to  assail  him,  and  before  descending 
into  the  t<jmb,  he  had  the  happiness  of  sooing 
his  patriotic  efforts  and  the  })urity  and  noble- 
ness of  his  intentions  acknowledged  ;  and  when 
his  mortal  remains  were  carried  to  their  last 
resting  place,  all  classes  oi"  his  fellow-citizens 
were  eager  in  doing  honor  to  tliat  great  man, 
and  all  united  in  blessing  the  memory  of  one 
who  was  no  iouger  accu-sud  of  heiug  a  traitor, 
but  whose  name  was  universally  admitted  to 
b©  desernng  of  a  place  among  the  very  highest 
in  parliameutary  history.     It  will  be  the  samo 


as  regards  the  present  Hon.  Attorney  General 
for  Lower  Canada.  He  will  have  his  reward  ; 
his  day  will  come,  not  in  the  sense  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbiniere,  who  makes 
use  of  the  expression  as  a  menace,  but  by  re- 
taining that  confidence  of  his  fellow-citizens 
which  appears  so  completely  incomprehensible 
to  the  honorable  member  for  Lotbiniere. 
That  he  should  enjoy  the  confidence  of  his 
fellow-citizens  appears  to  me  a  thing  perfectly 
natural,  and  not  by  any  means  difficult  to 
understand.  During  his  whole  life,  like  Sir 
Louis  Hypolite  Lafo.ntaine,  the  present 
Honorable  Attorney  General  for  Lower  Can:ida 
has  devoted  himself  to  protecting  and  pro- 
moting the  material  and  religious  interests 
of  his  fellow-countrymen,  and  he  has  now 
crowned  his  gigantic  labors  by  the  important 
share  he  has  had  in  the  framing  of  the  new 
Constitution,  which  is  destined  to  govern  one 
of  the  greatest  empires  in  the  world,  a  Con- 
stitution beneath  which  all  races  and  all  reli- 
gions will  find  protection  and  respect.  He 
will  have  his  reward,  and  like  his  predecessor, 
his  name  will  go  down  to  posterity  as  one  of 
the  greatest  benefactors  of  his  country.  I 
regret.  Mr.  Speaker,  having  spoken  at  such 
great  length,  but  the  importance  of  the  ques- 
tion must  be  my  excuse  for  having,  perhaps, 
wearied  the  House.  After  the  long  speeches 
delivered  by  the  honor  able  member  for  Hoehe- 
laga  and  the  honorable  member  for  Lotbiniere, 
it  was  impossible  for  me  to  curtail  my  re- 
marks, when  I  had  to  refute  and  destroy  all 
the  hazardous  assertions  of  the  two  honorable 
members.  I  think  I  have  said  enough  to 
show  that  the  honorable  member  for  Hoche- 
laga  made  a  false  prediction  when  he  said  that 
the  day  on  which  Confederation  was  accom- 
plished would  be  an  evil  day  for  Lower  Canada. 
No,Mr.  Speaker,  the  Confederation,  I  am  per- 
fectly convinced,  will  afford  the  best  possible 
guarantee  for  our  institutions,  our  language 
and  all  that  we  hold  dearest  in  the  world;  un- 
der its  protection  we  shall  be  strong  Jigainst 
the  common  enemy,  we  shall  advance  rapidly 
in  the  way  of  prosperity,  and  when  we  with- 
draw from  the  arena  it  will  be  with  the  con- 
solation of  leaving  to  our  descendants  an  in- 
heritance worthy  of  a  free  people.  (Cheers.) 
Mr.  JOLV—Whilo  the  Honorable  Solici- 
tor General  was  speaking,  I  twice  asked  jht- 
niission  to  explain  what  1  had  stated,  becau.so 
I  thought  he  had  not  understtM>d  me ;  but 
from  tlio  manner  in  which  he  \\n»  acted 
towards  me,  twice  refusing  me  the  opportunity 
ol  explaining  mysell",  I  am  now  convinced  that 
ho  perlectly  well  understood  what  I  wished  to 


S93 


say,  and  that  he  merely  pretended  not  to 
tinderstand  it.  I  am  not  willing  to  bear  the 
onus  of  the  charge  he  has  brought  against  me. 
I  shall  take  the  opportunity  of  setting  him 
right,  and  of  explaining  what  I  said  yesterday. 
I  am  quite  ready  to  bear  accusations  of  impru- 
dence or  ignorance,  but  I  will  not  stand  a  charge 
of  cowardice,  and  that  is  the  accusation  I  find 
in  the  Jounud  de  Quebec  of  this  day.  The  hon- 
orable member  charges  me  with  having  ap- 
pealed to  the  religious  prejudices  of  the 
French-Canadians.  I  did  not  appeal  to  their 
religious  prejudices ;  I  made  an  appeal  to 
their  national  prejudices.  I  look  upon  this 
measure  of  Confederation  as  fatal  to  the  in- 
terests of  Lower  Canada,  and  I  consider  that 
that  was  the  only  means  of  breaking  the  bands 
by  which  the  French-Canadians  are  bound, 
and  of  arousing  them  while  it  is  yet  time ; 
that  is  what  I  have  done  and  ever  will  do. 
But  I  am  not  the  man  to  appeal  to  the  national 
prejudices  of  the  English  after  my  appeal  to 
the  French-Canadians,  as  the  honorable  mem- 
ber has  stated.  I  shall  now  state  the  manner 
in  which  I  explained  the  passage  from  Lord 
Durham's  report.  I  said  it  was  impossible 
that  both  races  should  long  continue  to  live 
in  peace ;  that  some  day  or  other  the  two 
nationalities  would  come  into  collision ;  that 
judgment  would  be  given  by  the  Federal 
Parliament,  in  which  the  English  were  to 
have  the  majority,  and  from  which  the 
French-Canadians  could  not  hope  to  obtain 
justice.  I  did  not  state  that  the  French- 
Canadians  would  act  unjustly  towards  the 
British ;  but  I  said  that  the  latter  might 
complain,  and  that  the  Federal  Legislature 
would  be  called  upon  to  decide  as  to  whether 
injustice  had  been  done  ]  and  that  its  sympa- 
thies must  be  distrusted.  I  added  that  the 
Federal  Parliament  being  composed  of  a  ma- 
jority of  English  members,  would  be  inclined 
to  give  ear  to  the  English  of  Lower  Canada 
rather  than  to  the  French-Canadians.  I  then 
quoted  Lord  Durham's  report  to  prove  that 
English-Canadians  would  never  willingly  sub- 
mit to  the  majority  in  Lower  Canada.  And 
in  citing  the  two  extracts  from  Lord  DuR- 
ham's  report,  I  first  read  them  in  English 
and  then  translated  them  into  French.  How 
can  it  be  asserted,  therefore,  that  I  made  use 
of  the  English  language  in  order  to  make  an 
appeal  to  the  prejudices  of  the  Anglo-Cana- 
dians? The  charge  is  absurd.  Far  from 
desiring  to  influence  them  in  that  sense,  I 
read  the  passages  with  hesitation,  because  I 
felt  that  the  British  ought  to  blush  for  them. 
There  was  no  need  of  quoting  the  passages 
51 


referred  to  in  order  to  tell  the  English  of 
Lower  Canada  what  their  sentiments  were  ;  I 
cited  them  in  order  to  make  them  known  to 
the  French  Canadians.  With  regard  to  the 
second  passage,  I  could  not  cite  it  in  order  to 
attract  the  sympathies  of  the  British,  since  it 
was  an  extract  against  them.  How  can  it  be 
shown  that  I  cited  that  passage  for  the  pur- 
pose of  excitbg  the  national  prejudices  of 
the  English  ?  I  appealed  neither  to  the  re- 
ligious prejudices  of  the  Canadians,  nor  to 
the  national  prejudices  of  the  English. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHOX— I  did  not  say 
that  the  honorable  member  for  Lotbini^re  was 
a  coward  ;  I  found  fault  with  him  for  treating 
the  question  incompletely  and  putting  it  in  a 
wrong  light.  With  reference  to  the  quotations, 
the*  honorable  member  did  not  translate  into 
French  that  part  in  which  it  was  stated  that 
the  English  will  never  submit  to  a  French 
Canadian  majority. 

Mr.  JOLY — I  translated  it  word  for  word. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHOX— I  did  not  hear  it, 
but  I  am  quite  willing  to  take  his  word.  The 
honorable  member  has  said  that  he  wished  to 
excite  the  national  prejudices  of  the  French- 
Canadians,  but  that  is  quite  as  bad  as  exciting 
religious  prejudices.  AU  I  said  was,  that  he 
was  wrong  in  exciting  the  prejudices  of  the 
one  race  against  the  other. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LAN'GEVIX— After  the 
explanations  given  by  the  honorable  member 
for  Lotbiniere,  and  though  he  has  stated  in  a 
moment  of  excitement  that  he  felt  convinced 
that  when  I  made  an  accusation  against  him 
I  knew  it  was  not  well  founded,  I  must  con- 
clude that  I  was  mistaken,  and  that  he  trans- 
lated his  quotations  from  Lord  Durham's 
report  unknown  to  me.  I  take  his  word  in 
the  matter,  but  I  am  quite  sure  that  if  he  had 
not  been  excited  at  the  moment,  he  would  not 
have  charged  me  with  wilfully  misrepresent- 
ing him. 

Mr.  JOLY — I  am  the  more  clear  in  my 
recollection  of  having  translated  the  passage 
from  Lord  Durham's  report,  from  the  fact 
that  I  had  great  difficulty  in  translating  it,  as 
the  House  will  remember. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — And  in  fact  your  transla- 
tion was  not  quite  correct,  particularly  as  to 
the  word  British. 

Mr.  JOLY — But  since  the  Honorable  So- 
licitor General  has  given  explanations  and  has 
withdrawn  what  he  had  said  against  me,  I 
feel  it  to  be  my  duty  to  state  that  I  regret  to 
have  expressed  myself  so  strongly  with  refer- 
ence to  him. 

The  debate  was  then  adjourned. 


394 


Wednesday,  February  22,  1865. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Before  the  debate 
is  resumed,  I  would  enquire  whether  it  is 
the.  purpose  of  the  Government  to  bring 
down  the  promised  measure  on  the  subject 
of  education  in  Lower  Canada,  before  the 
House  is  invited  to  pass  finally  the  scheme 
of  Confederation  now  under  discussion  ?  I 
need  not  say  to  honorable  gentlemen  that 
this  is  a  matter  which  is  regarded  with  a 
great  deal  of  interest  by  a  very  large  portion 
of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada,  and  I  think 
that  before  my  honorable  friend  for  Montreal 
Centre  (Hon.  Mr.  Rose)  proceeds  to  take 
part  in  this  debate,  the  position  of  the 
Government  upon  that  question  should  be 
clearly  defined. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C  ARTIER  — Al- 
though the  question  is  not  put  regularly, 
I  have  no  hesitation  in  answering  the 
honorable  gentleman.  My  answer  is  the 
answer  which  has  already  been  given  by  my 
honorable  friend  the  member  for  Sherbrooke 
(Hon.  Mr.  Galt/ 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  — The  honorable 
member  for  Sherbrooke  has  not  stated  to  the 
House — 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CAKTIER— Order  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  think  I  am  quite 
in  order,  on  the  calling  of  the  Orders  of  the 
Day,  to  put  a  question  of  this  kind.  But  I 
rise  again,  siiuply  to  give  notice  to  the 
honorable  gentleman  that  I  shall  renew  the 
question  on  the  Orders  of  the  Day  being 
called  to-moiTow  evening.  I  do  think  it  is 
dealing  slightingly  with  the  House  and  with 
the  country  lor  honorable  gentlemen  to 
refuse  to  state  explicitly  what  are  their  pur- 
poses with  regard  to  this  important  question 
— whether  or  not  their  measure  is  to  be 
brought  down  before  a  final  vote  is  taken  on 
Confederation.  I  shall  renew  the  questiun 
to-moirow. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— The  ques- 
tion has  been  answer  d  twice,  but  the 
Government  are  ready  to  answer  it  again, 
if  the  honorable  gcntleninn  so  desires 

Hon.  Mr  K08K  then  resumed  the 
adjourned  debate  He  said — Hofore  1  pro- 
ceed, Mr.  Si'KAiCKR,  to  offer  any  observations 
on  the  motion  in  your  hand,  1  wish  to 
a(;kiiowl(Mlg(;  very  cordijilly  the  considerat'on 
which  the  House  evinced  last  evening  during 
my  absi'nco,  and  especially  to  acknowl<'dgt! 
the  conrtosy  of  my  honorable  friend  from 
Lambton  (Mr.  A.  Mackenzie),  my  honor- 
able friend  from  Chutcauguuy  (Hon.    Mr. 


Holton),  and  my  honorahle  friend  the  mem- 
ber for  Brome  (Mr.  Dunkin).  I  certainly 
feel  indebted  to  them  for  the  manner  in 
which  they  yielded  me  precedence,  at  the 
request  of  the  honorable  member  for  Mont- 
morenci  (Hon.  Mr.  Cauchon)  ;  and  I  shall 
endeavour  to  shew  my  sen.se  of  the  kindness 
of  the  House,  by  not  trespassing  on  its  indul- 
gence any  longer  than  I  can  po-ssibly  help. 
And,  before  I  oflPer  any  remarks  on  the  ques- 
tion itself,  I  would  premise  this,  that  I  hope 
in  the  course  of  them  I  shall  not  give  utter- 
ance to  a  single  expression  which  would 
seem  to  reflect  upon  those  who  entertain 
strong  opinions  adverse  to  the  proposition 
now  before  the  House.  '  Far  be  it  from  me 
to  deprecate  discussion — discussion  of  the 
amplest,  widest,  and  most  searching  charac- 
ter, on  this  important  question.  And 
far  be  it  from  me,  by  the  use  of  a  single 
word,  to  impute  to  those  honorable  u.emhers, 
who  feel  it  their  duty  to  oppose  this  measure, 
any  absence  of  patriotism.  I  believe  they 
are  actuated  by  the  same  ardent  desire  for 
the  good  of  the  country,  which  I  claim  for 
myself.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  right  that  the 
question  should  be  considered  in  all  its 
details — not  merely  in  its  bearings  on  the 
present  state  of  parties,  but  as  respects  its 
influence  in  all  time  to  come  on  the  country 
at  large.  And  with  that  view  I  think  it 
ought  to  be  calmly,  deliberately  and  patiently 
investigated,  and  instead  of  deprecating  the 
fullest  and  most  ample  discussion,  I  trust 
the  opportunity  will  be  afforded  to  every 
honorable  member  of  this  House  to  speak  on 
it  in  his  own  way  and  at  his  own  time. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Well,  sir,  I  presume  there 
arc  few  who,  in  the  abstract,  would  not  favour 
the  idea  of  a  union  between  a  number  of 
small  states  adjoining  each  other,  rather 
than  that  they  should  remain  isolated  under 
separate  governments.  To  the  idea  of  union 
in  the  abstract  between  states  so  circum- 
stanced, T  lake  it  no  one  would  be  op  osed. 
But  the  principal  ground  of  the  opposition 
which  is  made  to  the  present  scheme  by  a  not 
unimportant  cla.s.s,  is  this — that  the  mere 
abstract  principle  of  union  does  not  apply 
with  full  force  to  colonies  circumstanood  as 
Canada,  New  Jiruuswick,  Nova  Scotia,  I'rinco 
Kdward  Island,  and  Newfoundland — the  five 
colonies  that  are  parties  to  this  sclu'ine.  It 
is  feared  by  many  that  it  is  the  first  stop 
towards  indepondonoe — that  it  must  tend  to 
loosen  the  tics  now  existing  between  this  and 
the  mother  country — that  it  ohan^es  our 
relations,  and  will  produce  a  strength  incom- 


39S 


patible  with  Imperial  sovereignty — that  it 
may  probably  result  in  not  only  severing  our 
connection  with  the  Mother  Country,  but  in 
forcing  us  to  a  union  with  the  neighbouring 
republic.  That  I  have  heard  urged  as  the 
greatest  and  most  important  objection  which 
strikes  at  the  root  of  the  proceedings  of  the 
Quebec  Conference.  1  know  that  many  of 
the  opponents  of  the  scheme  entertain  the 
apprehension — perhaps  the  conviction — that 
that  will  be  the  result.  (Hear,  hear.)  Far 
from  deprecating,  then,  the  discussion  of  that 
question  in  its  broadest  aspect,  I  think  all  of 
us  who  desire  to  perpetuate  our  connection 
with  England,  should  listen  calmly  and  anx- 
iously to  the  objections  which  are  urged  by 
those  who  conscientiously  entertain  those 
opinions  which  are  not  only  blameless,  but 
entitled  to  respect.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  I 
do  not  deny  that  the  effect  of  the  present 
movement  may  be  to  change  the  character  of 
the  actual  relations  which  subsist  between 
this  province  and  the  Mother  Country. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear  !  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE-  I  do  not  deny  that  the 
result  may  be  to  change  the  character  of 
thesejrelatioDS.  But  I  maintain,  and  I  hope 
1  shall  be  able  to  satisfy  the  House  of  the 
soundness  of  the  position  I  take,  that  the 
change  will  be  of  that  character,  that,  instead 
of  loosening  or  weakening  or  diminishing  the 
connection  with  the  Mother  Country,  it  will 
tend  to  put  it  on  a  footing  which  will  make 
it  stronger  and  more  enduring.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Though  I  believe  these  relations  will 
be  somewhat  changed,  and  we  may  have  to 
consider  what  new  aspect  they  will  present, 
I  believe  this  measure  is  forced  upon  us  by 
the  necessities  of  our  position.  The  irre- 
sistible force  of  passing  events  will  not  allow 
us  to  stand  still.  But,  whether  by  this 
inevitable  change  the  country  shall  gradually 
lose  its  dependent  or  protected  character  and 
assume  more  of  the  Federal  relation,  consti- 
tuting this  a  territorial  division  of  the  Em- 
pire, I  believe  it  will  result  in  placing  those 
relations  on  a  surer  and  more  steadfast  foot- 
ing, and  that  we  will  still  acknowledge  the 
same  Sovereign,  owe  the  same  fealty,  and 
maijtain  the  same  veneration  for  the  English 
Constitution  and  name.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
cannot  be  denied  that  there  is  a  state  of  pub- 
lic opinion  growing  up  in  England  just  now 
— not  confined,  as  it  was  a  few  years  ago,  to 
a  class  of  extreme  theorists — that  the  connec- 
tion which  subsists  between  the  colonies — 
Canada  especially — and  the  Mother  Country, 


is  a  source  of  expense  and  danger.  It  can- 
not be  denied  that  that  kind  of  opinion  has 
obtained  a  good  deal  more  force  within  the 
last  few  years,  than  those  of  us  who  desire  to 
maintain  the  connection  between  these  colo- 
nies and  England  would  like  that  it  should 
have  obtained ;  and  we  cannot  ignore  the 
consequences  which  that  increasing  volume 
of  public  opinion  may  have  upon  the  legisla- 
tion of  England.  Then  there  is  another 
consideration  which  makes  this  subjecc  stand 
out  more  prominently  before  the  people  of 
England  at  the  present  time  than  otherwise 
it  would  do,  and  that  is,  the  state  of  its 
relations  with  the  republic  adjoining  us,  and 
the  enormous  military  power  which  the 
United  States  have  shewn,  within  the  last 
two  or  three  years,  that  they  possess.  In 
consequence  of  this,  the  state  of  opinion  in 
England  which  might  have  been  confined 
for  many  years  perhaps  to  mere  theory,  has 
been  brought  to  a  head.  It  is  not  now 
merely  a  question  of  abstract  opinion,  whether 
under  such  and  such  circumstances  it  would 
be  better  for  this  and  other  colonies  to  assume 
a  more  independent  attitude  towards  Eng- 
land. But  it  has  been  pressed  with  unex- 
pected abruptness  to  a  practical  issue  before 
the  people  of  Eugland,  and  they  have  now 
to  consider  what  the  relations  of  Great 
Britain  to  these  colonies  would  be,  in  the 
event  -of  war  with  the  United  States ;  how 
far,  in  that  event,  it  would  be  possible  to 
protect  this  remote  dependency  of  the  em- 
pire, to  avoid  disaster  to  the  English  flag, 
and  at  a  distance  of  3,000  miles  to  maintain 
the  prowess  of  the  English  name.  It  is  this 
which  has  forced  public  opinion  so  strongly 
iu  England  to  a  consideration  of  the  actual 
relations  between  this  country  and  the  Mother 
Country,  and  it  is  this  state  of  facts  with 
which  we  must  deal  now.  It  is,  I  repeat, 
past  discussing  as  a  mere  abstract  natter  of 
doctrine.  We  must  look  our  situation  in 
the  face.  We  must  consider  the  eventual- 
ities which  press  themselves  on  our  notice, 
and  it  is  our  bounden  duty  to  see  whether 
we  cannot  find  iu  the  union  of  these  colonies 
security  to  ourselves  and  a  source  of  strength 
to  the  Empire  at  large.  (Hear,  hear.) 
With  respect,  then,  to  the  objections  urged 
by  those  who  consider  that  this  scheme  may 
be  leading  us  along  a  new  and  untrodden 
path  towards  independence,  or  at  least  to  a 
more  independent  relation  with  reference  to 
Eugliiid  than  that  in  which  we  now  stand 
towards  her,  I  say  we  cannot  forget  that  our 


396 


surroundings  are  of  a  peculiar  kind.  I 
would  grant  that  there  would  be  much  force 
in  the  argument  that  it  might  sever  our  ties 
with  England,  if  we  were  circumstanced  as 
some  of  the  smaller  states  of  Europe — if  we 
had,  for  example,  a  state  like  Switzerland  on 
the  one  side  and  any  of  the  German  Princi 
palities  on  the  other.  If  we  had,  as  our 
neighbours,  states  like  Belgium  or  Den- 
mark— if,  so  situated,  we  were  one  of  a  num- 
ber of  small  states,!  grant  you  that,  if  a  union 
of  all  these  provinces  were  to  tuke  place,  it 
might  lead  possibly  to  that  independence 
which  those  who  oppose  the  scheme  now  fear, 
and  which  for  one,  I  hope  from  my  heart, 
may  never  occur.  (Hear,  hear.)  No 
doubt,  if  situated  in  that  way — if  we  had  no 
powerful  and  over-awing  neighbor,  such  a. 
political  combination  as  we  now  propose 
might  lead  to  practical  indftpendence  of 
England.  If  we  were  a  mere  congeries  of 
small  states,  with  no  powerful  neighbor,  that 
result  which  we  so  much  deprecate  might 
possibly  follow.  We  should,  probably,  in 
time  aspire  to  have  foreign  relations  of  our 
own,  to  have  our  own  army  and  navy,  and  to 
seek  for  that  complete  emancipation  which 
with  communities  as  with  individuals,  matu- 
rity prompts.  But  independence  in  a  state 
must  always  be  relative,  and  none  of  us  can 
expect  to  live  to  see  the  day  when  the  British 
dominions  in  this  part  of  the  world  will  be 
peopled  to  such  an  extent,  and  become  so 
powerful,  that  they  can  a£Ford  to  be  indepen- 
dent of  England.  We  must,  from  the 
necessities  of  our  geographical  position — so 
long  as  the  United  States  continue  to  be  as 
powerful  as  they  are ;  and  even  if  they  were 
divided  into  two  or  three  portions — we  must 
always  hud  in  them  a  source  of  danger 
which  must  force  upon  us  a  dependence  on 
England.  Wc  find,  I  repeat,  in  our  position 
towards  the  United  Stales,  and  in  the  great 
preponderating  power  they  possess,  a 
guarantee  that  we  need  not  apprehend  that 
there  will  be  anything  like  practical 
independence  of  England  asserted  by  the 
colonies  of  North  America ;  because,  from 
the  very  neccHsities  of  our  position,  we  .shall 
always  have  to  look  up  to  her  for  protection 
and  aid.  I  say  nothing  of  the  sentiment  of 
loyalty,  of  that  attachment  to  the  Briti.sh 
Crown,  that  love  for  the  person  of  the 
Sovereign  which  we  all  possess  so  strcngly 
and  try  to  instill  into  our  children.  I  do 
not  speak  for  the  moment  of  the  pride  wo  all 
have  in  the  conatitutiou  of  England,  and  in 


our  being  identified,  in  all  our  associations 
and  feelings,  with  the  glory  of  the  English 
name.  I  put  aside,  for  the  moment,  the 
instinct  of  attachment  to  the  Mother  Country, 
and  I  put  the  case  on  this  ground  alone, 
that  the  necessity  of  self-preservation  will 
for  centuries — for  generations  at  all  events — 
prevent  the  possibility  of  these  colonies 
asserting  their  independence  of  England, 
unless  it  were,  indeed,  to  become  a  portion 
of  the  republic  which  adjoins  us,  and  to 
which,  I  think,  it  is  neither  the  interest  nor 
the  inclination  of  any  member  of  this  House 
to  become  united.  (Hear,  hear.)  What- 
ever fate  may  be  in  store  for  us,  that  is  a 
destiny  to  which  no  one  looks  with  favor. 
The  genius  and  instincts  of  our  people  are 
monarchical  and  conservative — theirs  level- 
ling and  democratic.  But,  sir,  though  I 
have  said  that  I  was  disposed  to  look  upon 
this  question — the  danger  of  Federation 
rendering  us  independent  of  England,  quite 
apart  from  the  considerations  that  spring  out 
of  sentiments  of  loyalty,  yet  I  believe  that 
those  attachments  will  be  increased  tenfold 
by  this  proposed  union.  We  will  have  a 
sentiment  of  nationality  among  ourselves; 
and  I  consider  it  to  be  one  of  the  first  duties 
of  a  statesman  to  inculcate  that  national 
feeling  that  gives  the  people  a  strong  interest 
in  their  country's  welfare.  We  will  feel  that 
we  have  something  here,  in  the  way  of 
constitutional  blessings  due  to  our  union 
with  England,  and  that  we  have  stable 
material  interests  which  we  can  tran.><mit  to 
our  posterity.  We  shall  feel  very  differently 
from  what  we  now  do  as  colonitts,  apart  and 
alienated  from  each  other,  and  in  some 
respects  jealous  of  one  another.  With  a 
stable  government  and  a  strong  central  power 
controlling  an  immense  territory,  we  shall  be 
able  to  enter  upon  a  well  considered,  well 
devised  and  attractive  system  of  immigration. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  will  be  enabled  shortly, 
I  trust,  to  commence  to  bring  from  the 
Mother  Country  a  constant  stream  of  immigra- 
tion by  which  those  sentiments  of  attachment 
to  home  and  ilevotion  to  the  Crown  will  be 
perpetuated.  And  in  this  continuous 
recruiting  of  our  population  I  see  one  of 
the  great  elements  we  will  have  t*>  look  to 
for  the  perpetuation  of  the  attachmont  of 
this  country  td  the  .Oown.  We  have  not, 
in  time  past,  been  able  to  devise  or  carry 
iiut  any  extensive  system  uf  immigration 
We  could  not,  in  our  divided  and  isolated 
condition,  oft'or  thoso  uttractioue  which  wo 


397 


will  be  enabled  to  offer  to  emigrants  when 
we  can  tbrow  open  to  tbem  the  choice  of  a 
large  country,  a  country  which  will  have  a 
name  and  a  nationality — a  country  in  which 
they  and  we  can  all  feel  an  honest  pride. 
(Hear,  hear.)     They  will  not  feel  as  we  have 
hitherto  done,  doubtful  how  long  our  system 
of  constitutional  government,  and  the  bless- 
ings flowing  from  it,  were  to  last.     I  trust, 
therefore,  that  the   formation    of   a   stable 
government,  and  the  devising  of  a  system 
of  emigration  that  will  be  attractive  to  the 
people  of  England,  Ireland  and  Scotland, 
will  do  a  vast  deal  to  keep  up  that  constant 
attachment  to  the  Mother  Country  which  we 
all  desire  to  see  strengthened.    (Hear,  hear,) 
We  shall  then  not  only  have  the   ordinary 
motive  to   present   to   emigrants,    of    self- 
interest — the  opportunity   to  make  money 
merely,  but  the  other  interest  cf  attachment 
in  a  permanent  way,  to  the  soil,  without  a 
desire  to  go  back  to  the  Mother  Country  after 
a  competence  shall  have  been  gained — for 
the  sentiment  of  nationality  will   soon  take 
root  among  us.      Now,  sir,  I  think  that  so 
far   as    the    danger    of    union    leading    to 
independence  is  concerned,  those  who  are 
most  earnest  in   desiring  to  perpetuate  the 
union,  need   not  have  much  apprehension . 
But,  it  may  be  said,  that  from  the  necessity 
of  our  position  there  is  danger  that  we  shall 
feel  our  material   and  commercial  interests 
so  strongly  bound  up  with  the  United  States, 
and  feel  so  reliant  in  our  own  strength  as  a 
great  country,  that  we  will  eventually  form  a 
closer  alliance  with  that  republic  than   any 
of  us  desire,  and  that  the  formation  of  the 
present    union    is    the    first    step    towards 
annexation.     I  do  not  think  we  need  have 
any  fears  on  that  score.     I  do  not  think  our 
interests  would  lead  us  in  that  direction.     At 
the   present   time    we   are    almost    entirely 
dependent  upon  the  United  States  commer- 
cially.     We  are  dependent  upon  them  for 
an   outlet   to  the  ocean  during   the   winter 
months.      If   they  choose  to  suspend   the 
bonding  system,  or  by  a  system  of  consular 
certificates  make   it   practically   useless ;  if 
they   abolish    the    reciprocity    treaty,    and 
carry  the  passport  sjstem  to  a  greater  degree 
of  stringency,  we  should  feel  our  dependence 
upon  that  country   even    in  a  greater  and 
much  more  practical  way  than  we  do  at  the 
present  time.     And  perhaps,  sir,  it  is  worth 
our  while  to  consider  whether  this  may  not 
be  the  real  motive  which  dictates  the  policy 
tliey  are  now  pursuing !    (Hear,  hear.)    But, 
give  us  this  Intercolonial  Railway,  affording 


us  communication  with  Halifax  and  St 
John  at  all  seasons  of  the  year,  and  we 
shall  be  independent  of  the  United  States 
commercially  as  we  now  are  politically.  We 
may  not  find  this  route  to  the  ocean  more 
economical,  especially  in  the  winter  season, 
than  to  go  through  the  United  States,  but  if 
we  have  a  route  of  our  own  to  which  we  may 
resort,  in  case  of  necessity,  our  neighbors 
will  find  it  to  their  interest  to  give  us  the 
use  of  their  channels  of  communication  at 
a  cheaper  rate.  (Hear,  hear.)  They  will 
not  do  that  if  they  find  we  have  no  other 
outlet ;  but  if  we  are  prepared  with  an  open- 
ing for  our  produce,  all  the  year  round,  they 
will  not  act  so  foolishly  as  to  deprive  them- 
selves of  the  opportunity  of  carrying  our 
goods  through  their  territory.  It  we  had 
this  railway  built,  we  should  have  no  need 
to  fear  the  withdrawal  of  the  bonding  system, 
or  the  continuance  of  the  passport  system, 
because  they  would  be  inflicting  upon  them- 
selves a  greater  injury  by  so  doing  than  upon 
us.  Let  me  say  then  once  more  that  I  can 
perceive  no  one  element  of  danger  to  us  in 
this  union.  I  certainly  did  try,  during  the 
many  months  in  which  the  process  of  incuba- 
tion of  Federation,  if  I  may  so  speak,  was 
going  en — I  certainly  did  try  to  bring  as 
unprejudiced  and  dispassionate  a  consi<lera- 
tion  to  its  various  phases  as  I  possibly  could. 
I  looked  upon  it,  I  confess,  with  suspicion  at 
the  outset ;  I  felt  it  was  launching  us  into 
an  unknown  future,  and  that  we  were 
changing  a  system,  that  we  got  along  with 
in  comparatively  a  satisiactory  manner,  for 
one  that  was,  in  some  of  its  aspects,  new 
under  the  British  Constitution.  I  say  now, 
however,  after  giving  to  it  the  fullest  consid- 
eration I  am  capable  of  giving,  that  I  do  not 
see,  in  any  one  respect,  how  the  cementing 
of  these  colonies  together  in  the  bonds  of 
government  can  tend  to  make  us  independent 
of  Grreat  Britain  If  I  did,  I  should  feel  it 
my  duty  to  offer  it  a  most  uncompromising 
opposition,  and  to  endeavor  to  defeat  it  by 
every  means  in  my  power.  But,  sir,  I  do  see 
a  great  danger  the  other  way.  I  see  tliat  if 
we  remain  a  mere  congeries  of  isolated  colo- 
nies, hostile  in  some  degree  to  each  others' 
interests,  there  is  danger  ahead.  I  see 
that  danger  existing  and  threatening  us  in 
the  United  States.  I  see  that  if  we  do  not 
unite  and  form  one  Central  Grovernment, 
giving  it  the  power  to  direct  all  the  physical 
energies  of  this  country  in  whatever  direc- 
tion may  be  necessary,  that  we  are  liable  to 
be  overrun  by  that  power.    And  this  I  con- 


398 


ceive  to  be  one  of  the  very  strongest  argu- 
ments in  favor  of  the  Confederation  of  the 
provinces,  that  it  enables  us  to  prepare 
appropriate  defences  ulong  the  whole  frontier 
of  our  country.  I  believe  I  shall  be  able  to 
show  in  a  very  few  words,  that  if  we  are 
united,  we  shall  afford  to  England  sufficient 
inducements  for  undertaking  those  works  of 
defence  that  are  essential  to  our  own  security 
and  to  the  maintenance  of  her  flag  on  this 
continent  for  all  time  to  come,  and  that  if 
we  do  go  into  this  union,  as  I  believe  we  will 
we  shall  be  placed  in  a  position  to  defend  our- 
selves successfully  from  attack.  And  this, 
sir,  unfortunately,  is  not  a  contingency 
which  we  can  hope  will  never  occur.  It  is 
not  now  a  mere  vague  possibility  in  a  far 
distant  future  which  we  have  to  consider. 
So  long  as  the  present  civil  war  continues, 
it  is  impossible  tor  any  man  to  foresee  that 
such  national  complicatioDS  will  not  arise  as 
may  at  any  day  or  hour  involve  us  in 
actual  hostilities.  It  is  impossible  for  any 
prudent  man  to  disregard  that  dark  ihreat- 
ening  cloud  that  has  been  gathering  upon 
our  borders,  ready  at  almost  any  mom  cut  to 
burst  upon  us.  It  behoves  us  therefore  to 
lose  no  time,  if  we  believe  that  union  offers 
a  guarantee  of  safety  against  the  dangers  that 
threaten  us — it  becomes  important  that  we 
lose  no  time  to  consummate  the  proposed 
union,  in  order  that  the  General  Grovern- 
ment  may  put  us  at  once  in  a  proper  state  of 
defence.  The  public  opinion  of  England, 
as  we  unhappily  know,  does  not  at  the  pre- 
sent time  tend  very  much  to  warrant  the 
Imperial  Government  in  making  any  large 
expenditure  for  colonial  purposes.  There 
must  be  some  reasonable  prospect,  that  if 
expenditure  is  incurred  in  erecting  necessary 
works  of  defence,  those  works  will  be  actually 
available,  when  constructed,  to  protect  the 
country  upon  whose  frontier  they  are  estab- 
lished. We  cannot  expect  England  to  enter 
upon  a  course  of  expenditure  for  fortifica- 
tions on  our  frontier,  unless  she  has  the  a-^su- 
rance  of  our  ability  with  her  aid  to  hold  those 
works  against  attacks  from  a  hostile  power. 
I  believe  that  if  the  prop  sed  plan  of  union 
bleaks  down — fails  to  get  the  assent  of  the 
several  p.oviuces — and  we  go  back  to  our 
old  condition  of  separate  colonies,  wo  shall 
su  discourage  the  statesmen  of  England  in 
reference  to  us,  that  they  will  feel  very  much 
cmbarniHsed  with-the  prcspect  before  them. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Bon.  Mr.  HOLTON— No,  no! 


Mr.  DUNKIN— What  reason  have  you 
to  think  60  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — I  believe  that  the 
formatio-J  of  a  government,  having  the  power 
to  direct  the  whole  strength  of  five  colonies 
would  greatly  add  to  our  security.  Who 
doubts  that  there  is  greater  security  in  such 
a  union  than  in  isolation,  each  with  separate 
interests  and  having  no  common  action  ?  I 
think  the  advantages  of  union  for  purposes 
of  defence  are  not  properly  appreciated. 
(Hear,  hear.)  W^'iat  would  be  the  strength 
of  Great  Britain  if  there  was  a  separate 
government  for  England,  another  for  Wales, 
another  for  Ireland,  and  another  for  Scot- 
land ;  each  directing  its  owns  military  and 
naval  power  ?  If  one  national  government 
had  not  called  forth  all  the  national  materials 
and  elements  of  strength,  would  the  prowess 
of  her  fleet  or  of  her  armies  have  been  what 
it  is  ?  Is  there  no  benefit  in  having  a  power 
that  can  bring  to  bear  the  whole  military 
strength  at  any  point  desired  ?  If  there  is 
not,  then  I  am  willing  to  say  that  this  argu- 
ment which  carries  conviction  to  my  mind 
is  of  no  value  whatever. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Are  we  not  all 
connected  with  the  Mother  Country  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— Certainly. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Then  what  stronger 
could  we  be  by  merely  having  a  mere  politi- 
cal connection  with  others?  It  would  give 
us  no  more  men. 

Ho.v.  Mr.  hose — Does  my  honorable 
friend  think  that  if  each  province  had  con- 
trol of  its  own  militia  force.  Nova  Scotia  and 
Newf ouo dland  and  Trince  Edward  Island  con- 
trol over  the  seamen,  and  Canada  the  direction 
of  her  own  militia,  that  the  military  forces 
ol  these  five  provinces  could  be  brought  to 
bear  with  the  same  advantage  as  if  they 
were  under  the  control  of  one  central  power  ? 
We  could  not  take  them  out  of  their  own 
provinces  contrary  to  the  laws  of  those  pro- 
vinces. Is  it  of  no  importance  to  make  the 
hardy  seamen  of  Newfoundland,  or  the 
people  of  Nova  Scotia  and  New  Brunswick 
feel,  that  if  a  hostile  force  lands  at  Sarnia 
in  Upper  Canada,  their  territory  and  their 
soil  are  invaded,  or  their  indt'pendenoo 
threatened  1  We  sliould  have  embroilment 
and  difficulty  among  ourselves  at  the  viry 
moment,  when  united  action  in  presenting  a 
bold  front  to  the  enemy  was  necessary  to 
our  safety  I  we  go  back  to  our  old  con- 
dition of  isolation,  now  that  the  solemn 
approval  of  the   .^1  other  Country  has  been 


399 


given  to  this  proposition  of  Federation  (and 
her  statesmen  see  in  this  a  great  source  of 
strenj^th  in  enabling  her  to  avert  a  war,  and 
a  ready  means  of  defending  the  country) — 
do  you  believe  that  those  statesmen  will  look 
kindly  upon  the  act?  Even  my  honorable 
friend  from  Hochelaga  has  admitted  that 
there  must  be  in  that  case  a  dissolution  of 
the  union  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
That  honorable  gentleman  stated  in  his 
speech  the  other  night,  that  if  this  measure 
failed  there  must  be  Federation  between  the 
Canadas  ;  and  what,  I  would  ask,  is  that  but 
a  dissolution  of  the  present  union  ?  It  is 
certainly  a  dissolution  of  the  present  union 
to  adopt  some  new  Federative  system  as  be- 
tween Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  But  does 
the  honorable  gentleman  think  that  he  will 
find  in  the  separation  of  these  provinces  an 
element  of  strength  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— That  is  what  you 
propose  to  do  now. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— No,  Mr.  Speaker,  I 
do  not  propose  to  do  anything  of  the  kind, 
as  my  honorable  friend  will  acknowledge,  if 
he  will  but  bring  his  mind,  dispassionately 
and  earnestly,  to  the  consideration  of  the 
question.  There  is  no  one  more  capable  of 
seeing  and  appreciating  the  important  fea- 
tures of  this  scheme  than  he.  But  my  hon. 
friend  has  strong  feelings,  and  sometimes  is 
led  away  by  preconceived  jealousies  or  fears; 
I  say  that  if  my  honorable  friend  will  bring 
his  strong  intellect  to  bear  on  this  scheme, 
he  will  find  in  it  none  of  those  dangers 
which  ordinarily  attach  to  the  Federal  form 
of  government.  I  must  now  say  a  few  more 
words  in  reference  to  the  question  of  our 
ability  to  provide  for  the  defences  of  the 
country.  I  have  already  stated — and  I 
must  apologise  to  the  House  for  the  digres- 
sion which  has  been  forced  upon  me — that 
I  do  not  believe  that,  if  we  reverted  back  to 
our  original  condition,  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment would  be  as  much  disposed  to  aid  us 
in  the  construction  of  the  works  necessary 
for  our  defence,  as  if  they  found  that  in  the 
presence  of  a  common  danger  we  were  united 
together  to  repel  the  common  enemy.  I  say 
the  Imperial  Grovernment  would  not  in  such 
a  case  be  actuated  simply  by  a  regard  to 
the  expense  of  constructing  these  works — in 
which  I  understand  the  Lower  Provinces 
will  have  to  bear  a  share — but  she  would  be 
deterred  from  so  doing  by  the  further  con- 
sideration, that  when  built,  these  works 
would  be  less  likely  to  serve  the  purpose 
they  were  designed  toj  accomplish;  namely, 


to  enable  the  country  to  be  eflBciently  de- 
fended. It  is  one  thing  to  have  a  population 
of  four  millions  united  under  one  common 
head,  and  enabled  to  direct  all  their  ener- 
gies to  the  point  of  danger  ;  and  it  is  another 
thing  to  have  a  number  of  separate  units, 
with  no  common  action — each  under  a 
different  government,  and  distracted  and 
separate  at  the  very  time  when  they  ought 
to  be  most  united.  (Hear,  hear.)  What 
we  have  to  guard  against  is  this  :  a  sudden 
conquest  or  surprise,  for  which  we  might  be 
unprepared.  I  believe  myself  that,  if  works 
can  be  constructed,  by  means  of  which  we 
can  effectually  defend  the  country  against 
sudden  attack,  no  one  will  grudge  the  ex- 
pense. Of  course  they  will  cost  no  incon- 
siderable sum  ;  but  I  hope,  as  I  believe  my 
hon.  friend  the  Finance  Minister,  although 
he  may  be  pressed  for  other  purposes,  will 
not  hesitate  to  recommend  the  appropriation 
necessary  for  the  purpose,  and  to  impose 
increased  taxation  for  that  purpose.  (Hear, 
hear.)  For  I  am  sure  that  no  member  of 
this  house,  nor  man  in  this  country,  would 
hesitate,  if  need  were,  to  put  their  hands  in 
their  pockets  and  give  a  tenth  of  their  sub- 
stance for  the  construction  of  the  works  re- 
quired to  protect  the  country  from  the  rav- 
ages of  the  aggressor,  and  to  secure  to 
ourselves  a  perpetuation  of  the  inestimable 
blessings  derived  from  our  living  under  the 
British  flag.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am  the  more 
earnest  in  this  question  on  account  of  the 
observations  which  have  been  made  by  my 
honorable  friend  the  member  for  Hochelaga, 
(Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  observations  which  I 
am  sure  he  did  not  mean  to  have  such  an 
effect,  but  which  nevertheless  have  a  most 
mischievous  tendency.  That  hon.  gentleman 
stated  that  our  true  policy  was,  in  fact,  neu- 
trality ;  that  it  was  hopeless  for  us  to  attempt 
to  defend  ourselves  against  the  overwhelming 
force  which  the  United  States  could  bring  to 
bear  against  us,  and  that  with  our  small 
population  we  would  be  very  much  in  the 
same  position  as  Denmark  when  opposed  to 
the  armies  of  Austria  and  Prussia.  Indeed, 
he  almost  went  as  far  as  a  gentleman  who  no 
longer  holds  a  seat  in  this  House,  when  he 
said  that  ''  the  best  armament  for  Canada 
was  no  armament  at  all."  I  am  saie  that 
had  the  honorable  gentleman  felt  that  any 
injuiy  would  be  done — any  false  impression 
produced  on  the  public  mind — by  the  use  of 
observations  like  these,  he  would  not  have 
employed  them  at  all.  But  I  may  say  that 
they  all  tended  to  this  end — the  taking  away 


400 


of  that  confidence  we  should  have  in  our 
energy  and  resources,  by  telling  us  that  the 
prospect  before  us  is  practically  a  hopeless 
one — that  there  is  no  use  undertaking  pubHc 
works  for  our  defence — no  use  in  organizing, 
training,  and  arming  our  militia — that  all 
attempts  to  hold  our  own  would  be  fruitless 
on  account  of  our  inability  to  bring  sufficient 
able-bodied  men  in  the  field  to  cope  with  the 
force  to  which  we  might  be  opposed.  Why, 
sir,  is  it  by  such  a  tone  as  that,  that  you  can 
keep  up  the  spirit  of  the  people  for  the 
defence  of  the  country,  by  telling  us  that 
four  millions  of  British  subjects  could  oflPer 
no  resistance  whatever,  even  when  backed 
by  the  power  of  England,  against  the  United 
States  or  the  greatest  military  nation  on 
earth  ?  I  assert  that  even  were  we  to  be  put 
in  the  unfortunate  position  ot  Denmark, 
ninety-nine  out  of  every  hundred  of  our 
population  would  be  prepared  to  make  a 
stand,  hopeless  though  it  might  be  for  them, 
and  to  resist  until  the  last  foot  of  ground 
was  wrested  from  us.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
if  England,  in  case  of  war,  should,  for  the 
first  time  in  her  history,  decline  to  come  to 
the  aid  of  her  colonies,  future  generations 
would  not  glory  in  the  name  of  being  English- 
men, as  the  past  had  such  just  reason  to  do. 
Sure  I  am,  however,  that  we  should  occupy 
no  hopeless  or  isolated  position.  It  is  in 
order  that  the  observations  of  my  honorable 
friend  the  member  for  Hochelaga  may  in 
some  respect  be  counteracted,  that  I  would 
yet  trespass  upon  the  indulgence  ot  the 
House  tor  a  few  minutes  more  on  this  head. 
We  know  that  in  modern  warfare,  if  you 
can  erect  certain  works  which  will  compel 
an  enemy  to  sit  down  before  them,  so  as  to 
prevent  him  from  making  progress  into  the 
country,  you  may  by  such  means  defend  it 
for  many  months.  I  do  not  know  what  the 
scheme  of  the  defence  commissioners  may 
be.  But  it  is  well  known  that  they  express 
the  conviction  that  by  the  construction  of 
certain  works  at  various  points,  the  manning 
of  which  is  quite  within  the  compass  of  our 
power,  we  can  arrest  the  progress  of  an 
invader  for  many  months,  we  can  compel 
him  to  expend  and  oxhausi  his  strength 
before  these  works,  and  we  could  throw 
embarrassments  in  his  way  such  as  would 
take  an  invading  force  many  months  to  over- 
come. Because  honorable  members  must 
remember  that  it  is  impossible  to  have  more 
than  a  six  months'  campaign  in  this  country. 
And   supposing   you   were   to   erect  works 


before  which  an  enemy  was  compelled  to  sit 
down  in  the  month  of  May,  it  would  take 
him  fully  three  months  before  he  could 
bring  up  his  supplies  and  siege  train  and 
protect  his  communications,  and  by  the  time 
he  was  ready  to  make  a  determined  attack, 
he  would  be  overtaken  by  winter,  be  com- 
pelled to  raise  the  siege  and  go  into  winter 
quarters.  In  truth  our  winters  are  our 
safeguard  and  defence.  Such,  at  any  rate, 
is  the  opinion  of  military  men.  During  six 
months  only  are  military  operations  practi- 
cable in  this  country,  and  thus  whatever  is 
done  one  season  has  to  be  abandoned  on  the 
approach  of  winter  and  begun  again  the 
following  spring.  If  therefore  we  can  only, 
by  manning  certain  salient  points  in  the 
country,  prevent  the  progress  of  invasion,  we 
are  sale.  Sudden  conquest  would  be  impos- 
sible— delay  and  impediments  are  everything. 
Every  one  knows  the  history  of  the  celebra- 
ted lines  of  Torres  Vedras,  which  extended 
thirty  miles,  and  by  means  of  which  the 
invasion  with  which  Napoleon  terrified  Eu- 
rope was  first  rolled  back.  These  lines 
were  defended  by  but  a  small  number  of 
men,  and  they  compelled  Napoleon  to  retire 
before  them.  Then,  on  this  continent  we  have 
the  experience  of  Richmond,  which  has 
forced  the  army  of  General  Grant  to  become 
a  mere  corps  of  observation,  and  of  Charles- 
ton which  has  fallen  at  last,  but  after  what 
delay  and  at  what  cost  !  Going  to  the 
Crimea,  we  see  Sebastopol  defying  for 
months  and  months  the  joint  efforts  of  Eng- 
land and  France.  If  we  therefore  can  keep 
the  invader  from  our  doors  for  a  certain 
number  of  months,  our  Canadian  winter  will 
do  the  rest,  whilst  English  ships  would  be 
engaged  in  harassing  their  coasts  and  in  the 
destruction  of  Aojcrican  commerce  in  every 
sea.  I,  therefore,  entreat  those  who  are  dis- 
posed to  take  a  desponding  view  of  the 
question  to  consider  these  things.  An  ag- 
gressive warfare  in  this  country  is  one  thing, 
and  a  defensive  warfare  another,  and  a  very 
different.  (Heai,  hear.)  Our  country  is 
well  adapted  for  defensive  purposes,  atid  it 
is  next  to  impossible  to  subdue  us.  The 
badness  of  our  roads,  the  difficulties  presented 
by  our  winters,  our  deep,  broad  and  unford- 
able  rivers,  and  the  means  we  could  establish 
for  keeping  an  enemy  in  check  at  certain 
points  for  the  necessary  time,  would  enable 
us  to  resist  the  United  States  with  all  their 
power  and  resources.  No  man  can  have  a 
greater   appreciation    of   the   enormous  re- 


401 


sources,  of  the  courage,  of  the  varied  appli- 
ances, of  everything  in  fact  which  tends  to 
success  in  war  than  I  have  of  the  American 
nation.  I  have  seen  them  in  the  held,  and 
seen  them  at  sea.  They  certainly  have  come 
out  as  a  military  nation  in  such  a  way  as 
almost  to  astonish  the  world.  But,  sir,  let 
us  consider  a  little  more  closely  what  their 
circumstances  are  in  other  respects.  No 
doubt  they  have  an  enormous  navy,  but  that 
very  navy  would  not  be  more  than  sufficient 
to  defend  their  harbors  in  case  of  a  war  with 
England.  It  is  not  because  I  imagine  their 
ships  could  not  cope  singly  with  British 
ships — it  is  not  because  I  believe  their  men 
are  lacking  in  skill  or  courage,  or  that  they 
are  unable  to  build  sufficient  vessels — but 
they  lack  this — and  it  is  a  consideration 
which  we  cannot  and  ought  not  to  forget — 
that  they  have  not  a  single  harbor  in  any 
sea,  except  on  their  own  coast,  to  refit  their 
vessels,  (Hear,  hear.)  Supposing  them  to 
send  a  fleet  of  20  or  30  ships  to  England. 

An  HON.MEMBER— Or  Ireland  (Laugh- 
ter.) 

Hon.  Me.  ROSE— If  ihey  went  to  Ire- 
land, they  would  have  a  very  warm  reception 
indeed.  (Hear,  hear.)  No  doubt  they  could 
get  there  with  the  coal  they  could  carry ; 
but  where  would  they  get  the  coal  to  bring 
them  back  or  to  carry  on  operations  there  ? 
Sailing  vessels  now-a-days  can  do  nothing ; 
all  vessels  of  war  have  to  be  propelled  by 
steam ;  and  there  is  no  neutral  port  in  the 
world  where  in  time  of  war  with  England, 
the  navy  of  the  United  States  would  be  able 
to  obtain  assistance.  For  I  take  it  for  graat- 
ed  that  in  the  event  of  a  war  with  England 
the  United  States  would  have  few  allies. 
And,  as  I  before  remarked,  theie  is  not  a  port 
in  the  world  wh^ire  they  could  get  an  ounce  of 
coal  or  any  addition  to  their  armament.  In  this 
would  cou.-iist  our  great  safety.  They  have 
no  ports  in  the  Indian  Sea,  in  the  east  Atlan- 
tic, the  Mediterranean  or  China  seas,  and  it  is 
simply  because  men  of  war  could  not  exist 
without  coaling  and  refitting  that  the  navy 
of  the  United  States  would  be  placed  at  so 
great  disadvautage.  It  is  contrary  to  interna- 
tional law,  as  the  House  is  well  aware,  that 
the  ships  of  a  belligerent  nation  can  be 
received  in  a  neutral  port  and  assisted, 
beyond  what  is  requi.ed  by  the  dictates 
of  humanity,  to  enable  them  to  face 
the  elements.     They  would  be  unable,  I  S;  y, 


an 


to   get   a   single    man,    a   ton    of   coal, 
PUuoe  of  gunpowder,  or  a  pound  of  iron,  in 


any  neutral  port,  and  I  would  like  to  know 
what  the  United  States  could  do  in  a  war 
with  England  so  circumstanced?  (Hear, 
hear.)  Well,  sir,  this  is  one  state  of  things. 
But  there  is  yet  another  view  to  be  taken  of 
the  question.  Do  we  not  know  that  in  the 
event  supposed,  we  should  find  the  Atlantic 
coast  swarming  with  English  vessels  carrying 
moveable  columns  of  troops,  menacing  and 
landing  at  every  point.  The  navy  of  Eng- 
land, the  arsenals  of  England,  the  purse  of 
England,  and  all  the  appliances  and  require- 
ments of  war  would  bs  brought  to  bear  upon 
and  be  available  to  us  in  such  a  struggle.  We 
should  not  suffer  from  the  lack  of  the  material 
of  war,  which  is  perhaps  the  very  thing  of  all 
other  things  themost  essential.  In  all  respects 
we  should  be  in  a  very  different  position  from 
the  Confederate  States  at  the  present  day. 
We  should  simply  be  required  to  hold  our 
own,  while  the  United  States  were  being 
harassed  on  the  seaboard,  and  then  when 
the  winter  came  we  should  be  compara- 
tively safe.  Think  of  the  exhaustion  to 
the  United  States  of  such  a  war  !  I  have 
ventured  to  say  thus  much  with  a  view 
of  counteracting,  so  far  as  my  feeble 
observations  wiil  enable  me  to  do,  the 
remarks  of  the  hon.  member  for  Hoche- 
laga  the  other  night,  because  I  thiok  it 
was  a  most  pernicious,  unmanly,  and  un- 
patriotic vieyv  of  the  case  to  be  allowed  to 
be  disseminated,  when  we  ought  to  do  all 
we  can  to  encourage  and  evoke  a  military 
spirit  on  the  part  of  the  youth  of  this 
country.  Neutrality  has  been  spoken  of 
But  how  could  neutrality  be  possible  in  a 
struggle  between  England  and  the  United 
States  ?  The  country  which  cannot  put 
forth  an  effort  to  defend  itself  occupies  a 
despicable  position,  and  f^.rfeits  on  the  score 
of  weakness,  even  the  wretched  privilege 
of  being  neutral.  How  is  it  possible,  I 
again  ask,  that  we  could  maintain  a  neutral 
position  in  such  a  war  ?  We  could  not. 
We  should  have  to  make  common  cause 
with  one  or  the  other.  Do  you  suppose 
the  United  States  would  allow  us  to  stand 
aside  1 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— It  is  the  Minister 
of  Agriculture's  opinion  that  we  should 
hold  a  neutral  position. 

Hon,  xMr.  .NicGEE— Not  at  all. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE-I  have  listened  with 
pleasure  to  many  speeches  from  my  hon. 
iriend  the  Minister  of  Agricuture,  but  I 
have    never    heard    one    in    which    it   was 


52 


402 


implied  that  we  ought  to  remaia  neutral 
in  the  event  of  a  war  between  England  and 
the  United  States.  My  hen.  friend  is 
well  able  to  speak  for  himself;  but  I  must 
say  I  have  no  recollection  of  hearing  him 
utter  so  unpatriotic  a  sentiment. 
Hon.  Mb.  HOLTON— Hear  !  hear ! 
Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— I  have  no  doubt 
that  what  my  hon.  friend  meant  by  neu- 
trality was  this,  that  we,  as  part  of  the 
British  Empire,  were  bound  to  remain 
neutral  as  between  the  two  warring  sections 
of  the  neighboring  states. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— No;  the  hon. 
gentleman  expressly  gave  it  as  his  opinion 
that  the  neutrality  of  this  country  should 
be  guaranteed  by  treaty,  the  same  as  i.s  the 
case  with  Belgium  and  Switzerland, 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— I  had  this  idea 
once.  It  was  shortly  after  my  hon.  frien  1  op- 
posite (Hon.  Mr.  HoLTON)  declared  in  favor 
of  annexation.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  sentiment 
has  been  expressed  by  the  hon.  gentleman 
within  the  last  two  or  three  years. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOSE — Events  have  changed 
very  much  within  the  last  two  or  three 
ears,  and  we  have  got  to  deal  now,  not  with 
mere  party  questions  only,  but  with  events 
that  are  transpiring.  I  will  not  say  any- 
thing further  on  this  point,  however,  as  my 
hon.  friend  from  Hochelaga  is.  not  in  his 
place,  although  the  hon.  member  for  Cha- 
teauguay  chivalrously  defends  him  in  his 
absence.  I  say  then,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
while  I  do  not  wish  to  exaggerate  the  dan- 
ger, I  cannot  be  insensible  to  it.  It  is  a 
danger,  dark,  imminent  and  overwhelming, 
and  if  it  was  on  that  consideration  alone,  I 
say  that  1  fiud  in  this  questioii  of  defence 
sufficient  not  only  to  justify  me  in  voting 
for  the  scheme  now  before  the  House,  but  to 
demand  of  mc  every  effort  to  carry  it  into 
effect.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  we  show  that  we 
are  in  earnest  on  this  question  of  defence, 
England  will  be  encouraged  to  come  to  our 
assistance  in  time  of  danger,  knowing  that 
8he  can  look  to  us  not  only  to  contribute 
towards  the  construction  of  works,  but  etloc- 
tually  to  defend  them  when  constructed. 
(Hear,  hear.)  If  wc  show  England  that 
she  can  depand  on  a  population  of  four  mil- 
lions, with  a  strength  wielded  from  a  com- 
mon centre,  she  will  bo  encouraged  to  aid  us 
with  both  men  and  material  of  war,  and  will 
lend  us  the  assistance  necessary  to  protect 
ourselves  both  now  and  in  time  to  come. 
Let  me   repeat   then,   sir,  that  were  there 


nothing  in  addition  to  the  great  considera- 
tions to  which  I  have  adverted,  I  should  go 
heartily  for  these  resolutions,  and  I  should 
be  disposed  to  overlook  many  inequalities 
and  some  objectionable  features  which  I  see  in 
the  scheme.    I  do  not  intend  to  advert  in 
detail  to  these,  for  I  feel  that  I  have  to  con- 
sider this    question  as   a  whole,    and   that 
unless  I  see  objections  to  it,  so  great  and 
numeroufi  as  to  make  me  vote  against  it  as  a 
whole,  it  is  useless  to  criticise  that  which  I 
cannot  mend.     The  scheme  is  in  the  nature 
of  a  treaty.     It  will  not  do  to  cavil  at  this 
or  at   that ;    we  must   either  accept  it  or 
reject  it.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  see  the  difficul- 
ties of  the  scheme,  and  the  inequalities  of 
it;  but  we  must  not  complain  if  one  colony 
gets   a    few    thousand    dollars    more    than 
another,  or  if  one  colony  has  to  assume  more 
of  the   debt  than   another.     Unless  I  saw 
enough  in  the  whole  scheme  to  make    me 
vote  against  it,  I  think  it  would  be  a  mere 
waste  of  time  to  cavil  at  these  small  mattcrti. 
Because  without  the  consent  of  all  the  other 
colonies  they  cannot  be  altered,  and  on  the 
whole   there  is  na  reason    why  the  whole 
scheme  should  be  rejected,  and  these  slight 
inequalities    will    soon     right    themselves. 
(Hear,  hear.)     There  is  one  thing  I  would 
ask  the  House  to  consider  —apart  from  the 
higher  consideration  of  defence  ;  apart  from 
the  cementing   of  our  union  with  England, 
which  I  believe  is  involved  in  the  adoption 
of  this  measure,  and  apart  from   the  chance 
of  our  falling  a  prey  to  the  United  States — 
and  it  is  this  :  are  wc  prepared,  looking  at 
Canada  alone,  to  go  back  to  the  old  state 
of  things  of  twelve  or  eighteen  months  ago  '{ 
Are  we  willing  to  revert  to  the  chronic  state 
of  crisis  in  which  we  constantly  found  our- 
selves for  years  past?     (Hear,  hoar.)     Tliis 
House  and  the  whole  Government  had  lost 
the  confidence  of  the  country,  and  the  most 
lamentable  recriminations  and  difficulties  ex- 
isted on  the  floor  of  this  chamber.     Indeed 
at  the  time  of  which  I  speak  affairs  were  iu 
such  a  state  as  to  make  every  man  with  any 
feeling  of  self-rc^ipcct  disposed  to   abandon 
public   life.      I  think  wo   see  in  this  alone 
enough  to  reconcile  us  to  the  change,  and  I 
believe  I  should  see  sufficient  cause  iu  this 
to  induce  me  to  vote  for  a  change   in  our 
political  system.     The  dre.id  of  going  back 
to  the  past,  the  apprehension   lost  old  party 
crios  should   be  revived,    and    the   fear  lost 
dillicultie.s     in    wliii'h    we    t'nind     ourselvos 
might  be  perpetuated,  would  impel  me  to  vote 
for  tlie scheme  now  in  uur  hands.  (Hear,  hear. ) 


403 


Having  said  so  much  on  the  general 
policy  of  the  union,  I  might  have  been  dis- 
posed to  enter  at  greater  length  into  it, 
were  it  not  that  I  wished  to  keep  faith 
with  my  honorable  friend  from  Lambton ; 
but,  having  said  so  much  on  the  higher 
grounds  which  recommend  this  scheme, 
I  will  now  say  a  few  words  in  reference  to 
the  objections  which  have  been  urged  against 
its  character,  viz.,  because  it  embraces  those 
elements  of  disruption  which  are  to  be  found 
in  every  federal  union.  That  is  the  objec- 
tion of  many  who,  while  they  would  be  will- 
ing to  go  for  a  purely  legislative  union,  object 
to  one  of  a  federal  character.  They  see  in  it 
that  which  tends  to  a  disruption,  and  collision 
with  the  Central  Government.  Now,  sir,  I 
do  not  deny  that  if  a  legislative  union,  pure 
and  simple,  had  been  practicable,  I,  for  one, 
would  have  preferred  it ;  but  I  cannot  dis- 
guise from  myself  that  it  was,  and  is  at  pre- 
sent, utterly  impracticable,  and  I  cannot  help 
expressing  my  astonishment  and  extreme 
gratification,  that  five  colonies  which  had  been 
for  so  many  years  separate  from  each  other, 
had  so  many  separate  and  distinct  interests 
and  local  difi"erences,  should  come  together  and 
agree  upon  such  a  scheme.  Remembering  the 
difficulties  that  had  to  be  encountered  in  the 
shape  of  local  interests,  personal  ambition,  and 
separate  governments,  I  certainly  am  sur- 
prised at  the  result,  and  I  cannot  withhold 
from  the  gentlemen  who  conducted  these 
negociations,  the  highest  praise  for  the  man- 
ner in  which  they  overcame  the  difficulties 
that  met  them  at  every  step,  and  for  the 
spirit  in  which  they  sunk  their  own  personal 
differences  and  interests  in  preparing  this 
scheme  of  Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
is  remarkable  that  a  proposition  having  so 
few  of  the  objections  of  a  Federal  system, 
should  have  been  assented  to  by  the  repre- 
sentatives of  five  distinct  colonies,  which  had 
heretofore  been  alien,  practically  indepen- 
dent, not  only  of  each  other,  but  almost  of 
England,  and  almost  hostile  to  each  other. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  had  been  very  much 
to  keep  these  colonies  apart,  and  very  little 
to  bring  them  together,  and  the  success 
which  has  attended  their  efforts  speaks  well 
for  those  statesmen  who  applied  their  minds 
earnestly  to  the  work  of  union.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  necessity  was 
urgent. 

Hon.  Mk.  KOSE — I  quite  understand 
the  ironical  spirit  of  my  honorable  friend — 


but  the  work  of  Confederation  was  no  less 
one  of  vital  importance  to  the  country.  I 
cannot  help  saying  that  I  had  no  sympathy 
with  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon. 
Mr.  DoRiON),  the  other  evening,  in  his 
historical  detail  of  all  the  antecedent  difficul- 
ties which  existed  in  our  political  position. 
That  honorable  gentleman  told  us  what  were 
the  opinions  of  this  member  and  of  that  one 
at  different  periods, — commented  on  their 
inconsistency,  and  claimed  that  he  himself 
had  always  been  firm  in  his  opposition  to  the 
project.  Well,  sir,  I  do  not  care  what  may 
have  been  the  views  of  one  member  or  of 
another,  or  how  inconsistent  he  may  have 
been.  What  we  have  to  consider  is  the 
scheme  which  is  now  presented  to  us.  Let 
us  forget  the  past;  let  us  forget  former 
differences ;  do  not  let  us  revive  former 
animosities  !  Let  us  consider  that  we  are 
starting  fresh  in  life,  or  as  the  term  has 
been  used,  that  we  are  entering  upon  a  new 
era  of  national  existence.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Let  us  cast  aside  past  recriminations  and  look 
at  the  merits  of  this  scheme.  I  have  only 
to  say  that  a  man  who  does  not  change  his 
opinions  is  a  very  unsafe  man  indeed  to 
guide  the  affairs  of  a  nation.  Such  a  man 
is  like  an  old  sign-post  on  a  road  that  is  no 
longer  used  for  trav^el.  The  sign-post  is 
consistent  enough,  it  remains  where  it  had 
been  placed^but  though  a  type  of  consistency 
it  is  an  emblem  of  error.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  spoke  of  his 
consistency  and  the  inconsistency  of  others, 
but  he  was  like  the  sign-post  which  pointed 
out  a  road  that  existed  twenty  years  ago,  but 
which  no  one  could  now  pass  over.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)  I  think,  therefore, 
that  instead  of  endeavoring  to  find  objections 
to  this  scheme  because  it  does  not  give  as  a 
legislative  instead  of  a  federal  union,  we 
ought  to  acknowledge  the  sacrifices  of  those 
men  who  came  together  and  prepared  it. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Whatever  may  be  said  of  our 
desire  to  get  out  of  our  own  constitutional 
difficulties  in  Canada,  that  objection  cannot 
be  urged  against  the  public  men  of  the 
Lower  Provinces.  Newfoundland  has  not 
been  in  a  state  of  crisis  like  us,  and  New 
Brunswick  has  been  tolerably  faithful  to 
Mr.  TiLLEY  for  the  last  ten  years  ;  a  short 
time  ago  the  Premier  of  Nova  Scotia  had  a 
majority  of  thirty  in  a  very  small  house — 
everything  went  on  swimmingly  there,  and 
even  Prince  Edward  Island  was  not  much 
embarrassed. 


404 


A  VOICE — It  wanted  a  railway. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— Ljt  us  attribute  no 
motives,  but  rather  give  to  every  man  who 
has  had  anything  to  do  with  this  measure 
the  credit  of  being  actuated  by  the  utmost 
patriotism  and  singleness  of  purpose.  Such, 
I  believe,  is  the  feeling  of  nine-tenths — yes, 
ninety-nine  hundredths  of  the  people  of  this 
country.  What  inducement,  except  those 
of  a  public  kind,  had  my  hon.  friend  the 
President  of  the  Council,  or  the  Attorney 
General  West  to  eater  the  same  Government, 
if  it  was  not  with  a  vie  w  to  bring  about  a  union 
of  the  colonies  ?  And  even  if  they  had  only  in 
view  to  heal  the  con^stitutional  difficulties  of 
the  past,  we  ought  to  be  deeply  thankful  to 
thorn.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  stated  that  I  would 
not  criticise  many  of  the  features  of  this 
Bchem3j  but  there  are  two  main  features 
which  to  my  judgment  commend  themselves 
to  the  attention  of  every  one  who  has  any 
doubts  as  to  the  stability  of  the  system,  and 
which  give  us  a  sufficient  guarantee,  that 
guarantee  which  federal  unions  have  hereto- 
fore wanted,  namely  :  that  it  establishes  a 
central  authority  which  it  will  not  be  within 
the  power  of  any  of  the  local  governments 
to  interfere  with  or  rise  up  against.  It 
appears  to  mo  that  they  have  avoided  the 
errors  into  which  the  Iramers  of  the  Ameri- 
can Constitution  not  unnaturally  fell.  They 
have  evidently  learnt  somethin":  from  the 
teachings  of  the  past,  and  pronted  by  the 
experience  afforded  in  the  Case  of  our  Ame- 
rican neighbors  They  have  established 
this  Central  Government,  giving  it  such 
powers,  and  so  defining  the  powers  of  the 
local  governments,  that  it  will  be  impossible 
for  any  Local  Parliament  to  interfere  with 
the  central  power  in  such  a  manner  as  to  be 
detrimental  to  the  interests  of  the  whole. 
The  great  advantage  which  I  see  in  the 
scheme  is  this,  that  the  powers  granted  to 
the  local  governments  are  strictly  defined 
and  circumscribed,  and  that  the  residuum 
of  power  lies  in  the  Central  Government. 
You  have,  in  addition  to  that,  the  local 
governors  named  by  the  central  authority — 
an  admirable  provision  which  establishes 
the  connection  of  authority  between  the 
central  power  and  the  different  localities; 
you  have  vested  in  it  also  the  great  questions 
of  the  customs,  the  currency,  banking,  trade 
and  navigation,  commerce,  the  appointment 
of  the  judges  and  the  admiui.stration  of  the 
laws,  and  all  tho.se  great  and  large  f|iiestiun8 
which  interest  thu  untirj  commuiiiiy,  and 
■with  which  the  General  Goverumeut  ought 


to  be  entrusted.     There  can,   therefore,  be 
no  difficulty  under  the  scheme  between  the 
various  sections — no   clashing   of  authority 
between  the  local  and  central  governments 
in  this  case,  as  there  has  been  in  the  case  of 
the  Americans.     The  powers  of    the  local 
governments  are  distinctly  and  strictly  de- 
fined,   and   you    can   have    no    assertion   of 
sovereignty  on   the  part  of  the  local  govern- 
ments, as  in  the  United  States,  and  of  powers 
inconsistent  with  the  rights  and  security  of  the 
whole  community.    (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  the 
other  point  which  commends  itself  so  strongly 
to   my  mind  is  this,  that    there  is    a  veto 
power   on  the  part  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment over  all   the  legislation  of  the  Local 
Parliament.  That  was  a  fundamental  clement 
which  the  wisest  statesmen  engajred  in  the 
framing  of  the  American  Constitution  saw,  that 
if  it  was  not  engrafted  in  it,  must  necessarily 
loTd  to  the  destruction  of  the  Constitution. 
These  men  engaged   in  the  framing  of  that 
Constitution  iit  Philadelphia  saw  clearly,  that 
unless  the  power  of  veto  over  the  acts  of  the 
state  legislatures  was  given  to  the  Central 
Government,  sooner  or  later  a  clashing  of 
authority  between  the  central  authority  and 
the  various  states  must  take  place.     What 
said  Mr.  Madison  in  reference  to  this  point  ? 
I  quote  from  TVie  Secret  Debates  upon   the 
Federal   Constitution,  which    took   place   in 
1787,   and    during    which    this    important 
question  was  considered.     On  the  motion  of 
Mr.  PiNKNEY  "  that  the  National  Legisla- 
ture shall  have  tho  power  of  negativing  all 
laws  to   be  passed   by  the  state  legislature, 
which  they  may  judge  improper,"  he  stated 
that  he  considered  "  this  as  the  corner  stone 
of'  the  system,  and  hence  the   necessity  of 
retrenching  the  state  authorities  in  order  to 
preserve  the  good  government  of  the  National 
Council."     And  Mr.  Madison  said,  "  The 
power  of  negativing  is   absolutely  necessary 
— this  is  the  only  attractive  principle  which 
will  retain  its  centrifugal  force,  and  without 
this  the  planets   will  fly   from  their  orbits." 
Now,  sir,  I   believe  this  power  of  negative, 
this  power  of  veto,  this  controlling  power  on 
the  part  of  the   Central   Government  is  the 
best  protection  and  safeguard  of  the  system  ; 
and  it"  it  had  not  been  provided,  I  would  have 
felt  it   very  difiicult  to  reconcile   it   to  my 
sense  of  duty   to  vote  for  the  resolutions. 
IJut  this  power  having  been  given  to  the 
Central    Govcrnmont,  it   is  to  my  mind,  in 
conjunction   with   tiie  power  of   naming  the 
iocal  governors,   the  appointment  and  pay- 
ment of  the  j  udiciary,  one  of  the  best  features 


405 


of  the  scheme,  without  which  it  would  cer- 
tainly, in  my  opinioD,  have  been  open  to 
very    serious    objection.     (Hear,  hear.)     I 
will  not  now  criticize  any  other  of  the  lead- 
ing features  of  the  resolutions  as  they  touch 
the  fundamental  conditions  and  principles  of 
the  union.     I  think  there  has  been  through- 
out  a  most  wise  and   statesmanlike  distribu- 
tion of  powers,   and  at  the  same  time  that 
those   things  have  been   carefully  guarded 
which  the  minorities  in  the  various  sections 
required  for  their  protection,  and  the  regu- 
lation   of    which    each    province    was    not 
unnaturally  desirous  of  retaining  for  itself. 
So  far  then  as   the  objection  is   concerned 
of    this    union     being     federative     merely 
in  its  character,  and  liable  to  all  the  diffi- 
culties    which     usually     surround    federal 
governments,  I  think  we  may  fairly  consider 
that  there  has  been  a  proper  and  satisfactory 
distribution  of  power,  which  will  avert  many 
of  those    difficulties.     (Hear,  hear.)     But, 
sir,  there  is  another  objection  made  to  it, 
and  one  upon  which,  from  my  stand-point, 
I  desire  to  make  some  observations,  and  that 
is  with  reference  to  the  manner  in  which  the 
rights  of  the  various  minorities  in  the  pro- 
vinces have  been  protected.     This  is  unques- 
tionably a  grave  and  serious  subject  of  con- 
sideration, and  especially  so  to  the  minority 
in  this  section  of  the  province,  that  is  the  Eng- 
lish-speaking minority  to  which  I  and  many 
other  members  of  this  House   belong,  and 
with  whose  interests  we  are  identified.     I 
do   not   disguise   that    I  have    heard  very 
grave  and  serious   apprehensions  by  many 
men    for    whose     opinions    I    have    great 
respect,     and     whom    I    admire     for     the 
absence  of  bigotry  and  narrow-mindedness 
which  they  have  always  exhibited.     They 
have    expressed    themselves   not   so    much 
in  the  way  of  objection  to  specific  features 
of  the  scheme  as  in  the  way  of  apprehension 


of  something  dangerous  to  them  in  it — 
apprehensions  which  they  cannot  state  ex- 
plicitly or  even  define  to  themselves.  They 
seem  doubtful  and  distrustful  as  to  the  con- 
sequences, express  fears  as  to  how  it  will 
afi"ect  their  future  condition  and  interests, 
and  in  fact  they  almost  think  that  in  view 
of  this  uncertainty  it  would  be  better  if  we 
remained  as  we  are.  Now,  sir,  I  believe 
that  the  rights  of  both  minorities — the 
French  minority  in  the  General  Legislature 
and  the  English  speaking  minority  in  the 
Local  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada — are 
properly  guarded.     I  would  admit  at  once 


that  without  this  protection  it  would  be  open 
to  the  gravest  objection  ;  I  would  admit  that 
you   were  embodying  in  it   an    element  of 
future  difficulty,  a  cause  of  future  dissension 
and  agitation  that  might  be  destructive  to 
the  whole  fabric ;  and  therefore  it  is  a  very 
grave  and  anxious  question  for  us  to  consider 
— especially  the  minorities  in  Lower  Canada 
— how  far  our  mutual  rights  and  interests 
are  respected  and  guarded,  the  one  in  the 
Greneral  and  the  other  in  the  Local  Legisla- 
ture.      With    reference   to  this  subject,   I 
think  that  I,  and  those  with  whom  I  have 
acted — the  English  speaking  members  from 
Lower  Canada — may  in  some  degree  congra- 
tulate ourselves  at  having  brought  about  a 
state  of  feeling  between  the  two  races  in 
this  section  of  the  province  which  has  pro- 
duced some  good  effect.  (Hear,  hear.)  There 
has  been,  ever  since  the  time  of  the  union, 
I  am  happy  to  say— and  everybody  knows  it 
who  has  any  experience  in  Lower  Canada — a 
cordial  understanding   and  friendly  feeling 
between    the   two   nationalities,  which   has 
produced  the  happiest  results.     Belonging 
to  different  races  and  professing  a  different 
live  near  each  other  ;  we  come  in 
and  mix  with  each  other,   and  we 
each    other  ;    we    do    not    trench 
upon  the    rights  of  each   other;  we  have 
not   had   those   party    and  religious  differ- 
ences  which  two  races,  speaking  different 
languages  and  holding  different  religious  be- 
liefs, might  be  supposed  to   have  had  j  and 
it  is  a  matter  of  sincere  gratification  to  us,  I 
say,  that  this  state  of  things  has  existed  and 
is  now  found   amongst  us.     (Hear,  hear.) 
But  if,  instead  of  this  mutual  confidence ;  if, 
instead   of  the   English-speaking   minority 
placing  trust  in  the  French  majority  in  the 
Local  Legislature,  and  the  French  minority 
placing  the  same  trust  in  the  English  majo- 
rity in  the  Greneral  Legislature,  no  such  feeling 
existed,  how  could  this  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion be  made  to  work  successfully  ?     (Hear, 
hear.)     I  think  ^t    cannot   be    denied  that 
there  is  the  utmost  confidence  on  both  sides; 
I  feel  assured  that  our   confidence  in  the 
majority  in  the  Local   Government  will  not 
be  misplaced,  and  I  earnestly  trust  that  the 
confidence  they  repose  in  us  in  the  General 
Legislature  will  not  be  abused.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  hope  that  this  mutual  yielding  of  confidence 
will  make  us  both  act  in  a  high-minded  and 
sensitive  manner  when  the  rights  of  either 
side  are   called   in  question — if  ever  they 
should  be  called  in  question — in  the  respect- 


faith,  we 

contact 

respect 


406 


ive  legislatures.  This  is  an  era  in  the  history 
of  both  races — the  earnest  plighting  of  each 
other's  faith  as  they  embrace  this  scheme. 
It  is  remarkable  that  both  should  place  such 
entire  confidence  in  one  another ;  and  in 
future  ages  our  posterity  on  both  sides  will 
be  able  to  point  with  pride  to  the  period 
when  the  two  races  had  such  reliance  the 
one  on  the  other  as  that  each  was  willing  to 
trust  its  safety  and  interest  to  the  honor  of 
the  other.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  mutual  confid- 
ence has  not  been  brought  about  by  any 
ephemeral  or  spasmodic  desire  for  change  on 
the  part  of  either;  it  "is  the  result  of  the 
knowledge  each  race  possesses  of  the  charac- 
ter of  the  other,  and  of  the  respect  each  en- 
tertains for  the  other.  (Hear,  hear.)  Ic  is 
because  we  have  learnt  to  respect  each  other's 
motives  and  have  been  made  to  feel  by  expe- 
rience that  neither  must  be  aggressive,  and 
that  the  interests  of  the  one  are  safe  in  the 
keeping  of  the  other.  And  I  think  I  may 
fairly  appeal  to  the  President  of  the  Council, 
that  if,  during  the  ten  years  in  which  he  has 
agitated  the  question  of  represeutation  by 
population,  we  the  English  in  Lower  Canada 
had  listened  to  his  appeals — appeals  that  he 
has  persistently  made  with  all  the  earnestness 
and  vigor  of  his  nature — if  we  had  not  turn- 
ed a  deaf  ear  to  them,  but  had  gone  with 
those  of  our  own  race  and  our  own  faith,  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada,  who  demanded  this 
change,  where,  I  would  ask  him,  would-  have 
been  our  union  to  day  r'  Would  not  a  feeling 
of  distrust  have  been  established  between  the 
French  and  English  races  in  the  community, 
that  would  have  rendered  even  the  iair  con- 
sideration of  it  utterly  impracticable  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)  Would  the  French  have  in 
that  case  been  ready  now  to  trust  themselves 
in  the  General  Legislature,  or  the  English  in 
the  Local  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada  ?  No ; 
and  I  pray  God  that  this  mutual  confidence 
between  two  races  which  have  so  high  and 
noble  u  work  to  do  on  this  continent,  who  are 
menaced  by  a  common  daiger,  and  actuated 
by  a  common  interest,  ma7  continue  for  all 
time  to  come  !  I  pray  that  it  may  not  be 
interrupted  or  destroyed  by  any  act  of  either 
party ;  and  I  trust  that  each  may  continue 
to  Icel  assured  that  if  at  any  time  here- 
after circumstances  should  arise  calculated 
to  infringe  upon  the  rights  of  cither,  it  will 
be  suflicient  to  say,  in  order  to  prevent  any 
aggression  of  this  kind — "  We  trusted  each 
other  when  we  entered  this  union;  we  felt 
then  that  our  rights  would  be  sacred  with 


you ;  and  our  honor  and  good  faith  and  in- 
tegrity are  involved  in  and  pledged  to  the 
maintenance  of  them."  (Hear,  hear.)  I  be- 
lieve this  is  an  era  in  our  history  to  which  in 
after  ages  our  children  may  appeal  with  pride, 
and  that  if  there  should  be  any  intention 
on  either  side  to  aggress  upon  tho  other,  the 
recollection  that  each  trusted  to  the  honor 
of  the  other  will  prevent  that  intention  being 
carried  out.  (Hear,  hear.)  Feeling  as  I  do 
thus  strongly  that  our  French  fellow-subjects 
are  placing  entire  confidence  in  us — in  our 
honor  and  our  good  faith — we,  the  English 
speaking  population  of  Lower  Canada,  ought 
not  to  be  behind  hand  in  placing  confidence 
in  them.  I  feel  that  we  have  no  reason  as  a 
minority  to  fear  aggressions  on  the  part  of 
the  majority.  We  feel  that  in  the  past  we 
have  an  earnest  of  what  we  may  reasonably 
expect  the  future  relations  between  the  two 
races  to  be.  But  although  this  feeling  of 
mutual  confidence  may  be  strong  enough  in 
our  breasts  at  this  time,  I  am  glad  to  see  that 
my  hon.  friend  the  Attorney  General  East, 
as  representing  the  French  majority  in  Lower 
Canada,  and  the  Minister  of  Finance,  as  re- 
presenting the  English  speaking  minority, 
have  each  carefully  and  prudently  endeavored 
to  place  as  fundamental  conditions  in  this 
basis  of  union  such  safeguards  and  protection 
as  the  two  races  may  respectively  rely 
upon.  (Hear,  hear.)  T  feel  that  it  has 
been  carefully  considered  and  carried  out, 
and  with  the  same  amount  of  mutual  con- 
fidence in  the  future  working  as  in  the  past, 
we  need  not  have  any  apprehension  in  trust- 
ing the  interests  of  the  two  races  either  in 
the  Federal  or  Local  Legislature.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  although  we  here,  and  as  members  of 
this  House,  feel  this  confideuco  in  each 
other,  no  doubt  those  who  prepared  these 
resolutions  were  conscious  that  the  powers 
must  be  so  distributed,  and  the  reservations 
of  power  so  made,  as  to  commend  them  to 
the  people  of  the  country  at  large.  You 
must  carry  the  people  with  you  in  this 
movement,  for  you  cannot  force  a  new 
Constitution,  a  new  state  of  political 
being,  upon  a  people,  unless  their  own  judg- 
ment and  their  own  convictions  as  to  its 
safety  go  along  with  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear,  hear.  * 
Hon.  Mil.  HOSE — You  cannot,  1  say, 
force  a  new  Constitution  upon  an  unwilling 
people,  but  in  thia  instance  I  believe  a  very 
great  majority  approve  of,  and  arc  earnestly 
desirous  of  the  change.     1  know  you  must 


407 


satisfy  them  that  their  interests  for  all  time 
to  come  are  safe — that  the  interests  of  the 
minority  are  hedged  round  with  such  safe- 
guards, that  those  who  come  after  us  will 
feel  that  they  are  protected  in  all  they  hold 
dear;  and  I  think  a  few  observations  will 
enable  me  to  show  the  House  that  that  has 
been  well  and  substantially  done  in  this  case. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Looking  at  the  scheme,  then, 
from  the  stand-point  of  an  English  Protestant 
in  Lower  Canada,  let  me  see  whether  the 
interests  of  those  of  my  own  race  and  religion 
in  that  section  are  safely  and  properly  guard- 
ed. There  are  certain  points  upon  which 
they  feel  the  greatest  interest,  and  with 
regard  to  which  it  is  but  proper  that  they 
should  be  assured  that  there  are  sufficient 
safeguards  provided  for  their  preservation. 
Upon  these  points,  I  desire  to  put  some 
questions  to  the  Government.  The  first 
of  these  points  is  as  to  whether  such 
provision  has  been  made  and  will  bo  car- 
ried out  that  they  will  not  suffer  at  any 
future  time  from  a  system  of  exclusion 
from  the  federal  or  local  legislatures,  but 
that  they  will  have  a  fair  share  in  the  re- 
presentation in  both;  and  the  second  is, 
whether  such  safeguards  will  be  provided  for 
the  educational  system  of  the  minority  in 
Lower  Canada  as  will  be  satisfactory  to  them  ? 
Upon  these  points  some  apprehensions 
appear  to  exist  in  the  minds  of  the  English 
minority  in  Lower  Canada,  and  although  I 
am  free  to  confess  that  I  have  not  shared  in 
any  fear  of  injustice  at  the  hands  of  the 
majority,  as  I  consider  that  the  action  of  the 
past  forms  a  good  guarantee  for  the  future, 
yet  I  desire,  for  the  full  assurance  of  that 
minority,  to  put  some  questions  to  my  hon. 
friends  in  the  Government.  I  wish  to  know 
what  share  of  representation  the  English- 
speaking  population  of  Lower  Canada  will 
have  in  the  Federal  Legislature,  and  whether 
it  will  be  in  the  same  proportion  as  their 
representation  in  this  Parliament  ?  This  is 
one  point  in  which  I  think  the  English  in- 
habitants of  Lower  Canada  are  strongly  in- 
terested. Another  is  with  regard  to  their 
representation  in  the  Local  Legislature  of 
Lower  Canada — whether  the  same  proportion 
will  be  given  to  them  as  is  now  given  to  them 
in  this  House,  that  is  to  say,  about  one-fourth 
of  the  Lower  Canadian  representation,  which 
is  the  proportion  of  the  English  speaking  to 
the  French  speaking  population  of  Lower 
Canada,  the  numbers  being  260,000  and 
1,100,000  respectively.  Now,  the  spirit  of 
the  resolutions  as  I  understand  them — and  I 


will  thank  my  hon.  friend  the  Attorney  Gen- 
eral to  correct  me  if  I  am  in  error  in  regard 
to  them — provides  that  the  electoral  districts 
in  Lower  Canada  for  representatives  in  the 
first  Federal  Legislature  shall  remain  intact  as 
they  now  are  ;  and,  although  the  resolution 
is  somewhat  ambiguously  expressed,  I  take 
that  to  be  its  spirit, 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Have  the  kindness 
to  read  it  and  see. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— The  23rd  resolution 
reads  :  "  The  Legislature  of  each  province 
shall  divide  such  province  into  the  proper 
number  of  constituencies,  and  define  the 
boundaries  of  each  of  them."  Then  the 
24th  resolution  provides  that  "  the  Local 
Legislature  may  from  time  to  time  alter  the 
electoral  districts  for  the  purpose  of  repre- 
sentation in  such  Local  Legislature,  and 
distribute  the  representatives  to  which  the 
province  is  entitled  in  such  Local  Legislature, 
in  any  manner  such  legislature  may  see  fit." 
In  these  resolutions  I  presuine  that  power  is 
given  to  the  Legislature  of  each  province  to 
divide  the  province  into  the  proper  number 
of  constituencies  for  representation  in  the 
Federal  Parliament,  and  to  alter  the  electo- 
ral districts  for  representation  in  the  Local 
Legislature.  Now,  to  speak  quite  plainly,  the 
apprehension  which  I  desire  to  say  again  I 
do  not  personally  share  in,  but  which  has 
been  expressed  to  me  by  gentlemen  in  my 
own  constituency,  is  this,  that  with  respect 
to  the  Local  Legislature,  it  will  be  competent 
for  the  French  majority  in  Lower  Canada  to 
blot  out  the  English-speaking  minority  from 
any  share  in  the  representation,  and  so  to 
apportion  the  electoral  districts  that  no  Eng- 
ish  speaking  member  can  be  returned  to  the 
Legislature.  That  is  an  apprehension  upon 
which  I  would  be  veiy  glad  to  have  an  ex- 
pression of  opinion  by  my  hon.  friend  the 
Attorney  General  East.  As  I  read  the  reso- 
lutions, if  the  Local  Legislature  exercised  its 
powers  in  any  such  unjust  manner,  it  would 
be  competent  for  the  General  Government  to 
veto  its  action,  and  thus  prevent  the  intention 
of  the  Local  Legislature  being  carried  into 
effect — even  although  the  power  be  one 
which  is  declared  to  be  absolutely  vested  in 
the  Local  Government,  and  delegated  to  it  as 
one  of  the  articles  of  its  constitution. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— There  is 
not  the  least  doubt  that  if  the  Local  Legislature 
of  Lower  Canada  should  apportion  the  electoral 
districts  in  such  a  way  as  to  do  injustice  to 
the  English-speaking  population,  the  Gene 
ral  Government  will  have  the  right  to  vet 


408 


any  law  it  might  pass  to  this  effect  and  set  it 
at  nought. 

Hon.  Ma.  HOLTON— Would  you  ad- 
vise it? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Yes,  I 
would  recommend  it  myself  in  case  of  injus- 
tice.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — I  am  quite  sure  my 
hon.  friend  would  do  it  rather  than  have  an 
injustice  perpetrated.  There  is  another 
point  upon  which  I  would  like  to  have  from 
the  Attorney  General  East  an  explicit  state- 
ment of  the  views  of  the  Government.  I 
refer  to  the  provision  in  the  28rd  resolution 
which  I  have  just  read ;  what  I  wish  to  know 
is  whether  the  Legislature  therein  spoken  of 
means  the  Legislature  of  the  province  of 
Canada  as  it  is  now  constituted,  and  whether 
it  is  contemplated  to  have  any  change  in  the 
boundaries  of  the  electoral  districts  for  re- 
presentation in  the  first  session  of  the  Fede- 
ral Legislature  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C ARTIER  — With 
regard  to  Lower  Canada,  it  is  not  the  inten- 
tion to  make  any  alteration  in  the  electoral 
districts,  because  there  will  be  no  change  in 
the  number  of  representatives  sent  to  the 
General  Parliament.  But  with  regard  to 
Upper  Canada,  there  will  be  a  change  in  the 
electoral  districts,  because  there  will  be  an 
increase  of  members  from  that  section. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— So  that  I  clearly  un- 
derstand from  the  statement  of  the  hon.  gen- 
tleman that  in  Lower  Canada  the  constitu- 
encies, for  the  purposes  of  the  first  ejection 
to  the  Federal  Legislature,  will  remain  as 
they  are  now  ? 

^.  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Yes,  as 
they  are  now. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — And  that  as  regards 
the  representation  in  the  Local  Legislature, 
the  apportionment  of  the  electoral  districts 
by  it  will  be  subject  to  veto  by  the  General 
Government. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Yes,  in 
case  of  injustice  being  doo^.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— I  have  to  thank  the 
hon,  gentleman  for  the  manner  in  which  he 
has  answered  the  questions,  and  for  the  assu- 
rances he  has  given  on  these  two  points — 
assurances  which,  E  feel  persuaded,  will  re- 
move some  apprehension  felt  in  the  country 
with  regard  to  them.  An  hon.  gentleman 
who  sits  near  me  (Mr.  Francis  Jones)  asks 
me  to  en(iuirc  who  is  to  change  the  electoral 
districts  in  Upper  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT— The  Parliament  of 
Canada.  ^  (Hear,  hear  ) 


Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— The  hon.  gentleman 
wants  to  know  if  it  is  the  present  Parlia- 
ment of  Canada ;  but  I  am  quite  willing 
to  let  Upper  Canada  take  care  of  itself, 
and  I  think  its  representatives  are  able  to 
do  so.  One  minority  is  quite  enough  for 
me  to  attend  to  at  present.  (Laughter.) 
I  trust  the  Attorney  General  East,  from  my 
putting  these  questions  to  him,  will  not  infer 
that  I  have  any  doubt  as  to  the  fair  dealing 
that  will  be  accorded  to  the  minority  by 
the  majority  in  Lower  Canada.  But  it  is . 
very  desirable,  I  think,  that  we  should  re- 
ceive a  clear,  emphatic,  and  distinct  decla- 
ration of  the  spirit  of  the  resolutions  on 
these  points,  in  order  that  the  minority  may 
see  how  well  their  rights  and  interests  have 
been  protected.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am  fully 
persuaded  that  in  the  past  conduct  of  the 
majority  in  Lower  Canada  there  is  nothing 
which  will  cause  the  minority  to  look  with 
doubt  upon  the  future  ;  for  I  will  do  my 
hon.  friend  the  justice  of  saying  that  in  the 
whole  course  of  his  public  life  there  has  not 
been  a  single  act  on  his  part  either  of  execu- 
tive, administrative,  or  legislative  action, 
tinged  with  illiberality,  intolerance,  or 
bigotry.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  say  this  to  ex- 
press my  Delief  that  in  the  future,  wherever 
he  has  control,  there  will  be  no  appearance 
of  bigotry  or  illiberality,  and  I  feel  that  the 
confidence  I  repose  in  him  in  this  respect  is 
shared  in  by  many  others  in  this  House  and 
throughout  the  country.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mil.  HOLTON— Will  my  hon. 
friend  allow  me  to  interrupt  him  ?  Perhaps 
it  would  be  well,  while  he  is  asking  questions 
of  the  Government,  to  elicit  an  answer  to  the 
question  I  have  put  once  or  twice  touching 
the  proposed  measure  of  the  Administration 
on  the  subject  of  education  in  Lower  Canada, 
as  it  affects  the  Enj^lish-speaking  minority. 
Perhaps  he  will  ascertain  whether  it  will  be 
submitted  to  the  House  before  the  final 
passage  of  the  Confederation  scheme. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — I  intend  to  come  to 
that  presently,  and  to  put  a  question  to  my 
hon.  friend  the  Attorney  General  East  in 
reference  to  that  .subject.  What  I  wish  to 
do  now  is  to  point  out  the  objections  I  have 
heard  on  the  part  even  of  some  of  my  own 
friends  to  this  scheme — objcv'tions  which,  as 
I  have  said,  are  grounded  ou  an  undefined 
dread  of  evil  rather  than  on  anything  that 
they  actually  now  sec  obnoxious  in  the 
Hchcrae  itself  These  fears,  I  have  said,  are 
vague  and  undeflned,  and  difficult  therefore 
to  combat.     If  I  go  among  one  class  and  ask 


409 


them  what  they  fear,  I  am  told — ''  Oh,  you 
are  going  to  hand  us  over  to  the  tender 
mercies  of  the  French ;  the  English  in- 
fluence will  be  entirely  annihilated  ; 
they  will  have  no  power  in  the  commu- 
nity; and  all  the  advantages  we  have 
gained  during  the  past  twenty-five  years  by 
our  union  with  the  people  of  our  own  race  in 
Upper  Canada  will  be  entirely  lost."  I  can 
but  answer — ''What  are  you  afraid  of? 
Where  is  the  interest  affecting  you  that  is 
imperilled  ?  You  have,  in  conjunction  with 
a  majority  of  your  own  race,  power  in  the 
Greneral  Legislature  to  appoint  the  local  gov- 
ernors, administer  justice  f.nd  name  the 
judges,  to  control  the  militia  and  all  other 
means  of  defence,  and  to  make  laws  respect- 
ing the  post  office,  trade,  commerce,  naviga- 
tion ;  and  you  have  all  the  great  and  important 
interests  that  centre  in  the  community  I 
represent — all  matters  that  affect  the  minority 
in  Lower  Canada — within  your  control  in  the 
Federal  Legislature.  The  French  have  sur- 
rendered the  questions  relating  to  usury,  to 
marriage  and  divorce,  on  which  they  hold 
pretty  strong  opinions,  to  the  Central  Grovern- 
ment.  What,  then,  are  you  afraid  of  in  the 
action  of  the  Local  Legislature  ?"  "  Well," 
I  am  answered,  "  all  that  may  be  true  enough  • 
but  we  shall  not  get  a  single  appointment ;  the 
administration  of  local  affairs  in  Lower 
Canada  will  be  entirely  in  the  hands  of  the 
French  majority,  and  they  will  control  all  the 
patronage."  You  say  to  them  again — "  Is  it 
the  exercise  of  patronage  you  are  afraid  of  ? 
Is  not  the  appointment  of  the  judges,  the 
patronage  of  the  post  office,  the  customs,  the 
excise,  the  board  of  works,  and  all  the  other 
important  branches  of  the  administration  in 
the  hands  of  the  Federal  Grovernment  ? 
What  is  there,  then,  but  a  few  municipal 
officers  to  be  appointed  by  the  local  legisla- 
tures ;  and  for  the  sake  of  this  petty  patron- 
age, are  you  going  to  imperil  the  success  of 
a  scheme  that  is  fraught  with  such  important 
consequences  to  all  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America?  Is  it  for  this  that  you  will 
oppose  a  measure  that  contains  so  many 
merits,  that  possesses  so  much  good,  and  that 
is  calculated  to  confer  such  lasting  benefits 
upon  these  provinces,  if  not  to  lead  to  the 
formation  of  a  territorial  division  of  the 
British  Empire  here  ?"  Well,  these  ques- 
tions I  have  put,  and  these  explanations  I 
have  made,  but  some  still  seemed  to  enter- 
tain an  undefined  dread  that  they  could  not 
realise  to  themselves — a  dread  which  to  a 
great  extent  appears  to  be  shared  by  my  hon. 
53 


friend  opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  in  re- 
gard to  the  General  Legislature.  Well,  if 
we  look  to  the  history  of  the  past  twenty- 
five  years  and  see  how  we  have  acted  towards 
each  other,  I  think  neither  party  will  have 
any  cause  for  apprehension.  Has  there  been 
a  single  act  of  aggression  on  the  part  of  my 
hon.  friend  the  Attorney  General  East  on  us 
the  English  minority,  or  a  single  act  of 
aggression  on  our  part  towards  the  race  to 
which  he  belongs?  (Hear,  hear.)  Has 
there  not  been  mutual  respect  and  confidence, 
and  has  there  been  an  act  on  either  side  to 
destroy  that  feeling  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
think  the  past  gives  assurance  to  us  that  no 
such  difficulty  will  arise  in  the  future,  and 
that  we  shall  continue  to  live  and  work  har- 
moniously together,  each  holding  the  other 
in  respect  and  esteem.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
we  are  told — and  it  is  urged  as  an  objection 
against  the  scheme— r-that  works  of  improve- 
ment will  be  obstructed  by  the  Local  Govern- 
ment in  Lower  Canada.  Now,  I  think  the 
day  has  long  gone  by  when  acts  which  were 
formerly  committed  could  possibly  be  repeat- 
ed— when,  for  instance,  before  the  union, 
the  work  carried  on  by  the  Montreal  Harbor 
Commissioners  could  not  be  proceeded  with 
because  Mr.  Papineau  opposed  it.  The  days 
of  progress  and  advancement  have  come  since 
that  time.  This  is  an  age  of  progress,  the 
very  spirit  of  which  is  hostile  in  the  strong- 
est degree  to  such  a  state  of  things.  It  is 
impossible  for  either  race  to  treat  the  other 
with  injustice.  Their  interests  are  too  much 
bound  up  together,  and  any  injustice  com- 
mitted by  one  would  react  quite  as  injuri- 
ously upon  it  elsewhere ;  and  I  believe  that 
the  mutual  confidence  with  which  we  are 
going  into  this  union  ought  to  and  will  in- 
duce us  all  to  labor  together  harmoniously, 
and  endeavor  to  work  it  out  for  the  best. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not  disguise  from  my- 
self that  the  minority  in  Lower  Canada  has 
always  been  on  the  defensive.  That  is  a 
condition  which  is  natural  under  the  circum- 
stances ;  for  we  cannot  be  in  a  minority 
without  being  more  or  less  on  the  defensive. 
But  I  thick  that  under  this  scheme  the 
French  minority  in  the  General  Legislatuie 
and  the  English  minority  in  Lower  Canada, 
will  both  be  amply  and  satisfactorily  protect- 
ed. (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  sir,  I  come  to  the 
question  adverted  to  by  the  hon.  member  for 
Ohateauguay,  in  reference  to  the  education 
measure  which  the  Government  has  promised 
to  bring  down  to  the  House.  I  believe  this 
is   the   first  time   aimost   in    the  history  of 


410 


Lower  CanacJa — and  I   call  the   attention  of 
my  hon.  frieu'^ls  from  Upper  Canada  to  the 
fact — that  there  has  been  any  excitement,  or 
movement,  or  agitation   on  the   part  of  the 
English  Protestant  population  of  Lower  Ca- 
nada  in   reference    to    the    common    school 
question.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  the  first  time 
in  the  history  of  the  country  that  there  has 
been    any    serious     apprehension     aroused 
amougst  them  regardiog  the  elen.entary  edu- 
cation  of  their    children,     1    am  not  aware 
that   there    has    ever    been    any  attempt  in 
Lower    Canada    to  deprive  the   minority  of 
their  just  rights  in  respect  to  the  education 
ol  their  youth.     I  do  not  state  this  simply 
iis  my  own  opinion,  or  as  the  result  of  obser- 
vations which  I  have  made  alone.     1  have 
received  letters  from  those  who   have  been 
cognizaut  of  the  educntional  system  in  Lower 
Canada  for  many  years,  confirmatory  of  this 
in  the  strongest  degree.     It  was  also  observ- 
ed and  commented  upon  by  the  three   cum- 
missioners  who   came   out  from   England  to 
this   country  in  1837,  and  who  in  their  re- 
port said  it  was  one  of  the  most  remarkable 
circumstances  that  came  under  their  notice, 
that  they  found  two  races,  speaking  dilferent 
languages    and    holding    different    religiou.- 
opinions,  living    togetlier  in    harmony,  and 
having  no  ditiereuce  or  ill-feeling  in  respect 
to  the  education  of  their  children.     Now  we, 
the  English    Protestant   minority   of  Lowe 
Canada,  cannot  forget  that  whatever  right  of 
separate  education  we  have  was  accorded  to 
us  in   the  most  unrestricted  way  before  the 
union  of  the  provinces,  when  we  were    in   a 
minority  and  entirely  in   the   hands   of   the 
French  population.     We  cannot  forget  that 
in  no  way  was  there   any  attempt  to  prevent 
us  educating  our  children  in  the  manner  we 
saw  fit  and  deemed  best ;  and  I  would  be 
untrue  to  what  is  just  if  I  ibrgot  to  stale  that 
the  distrioution  of  State  funds  fur  educational 
purposes  was  made  in  such  a  way  as  to  cause 
no  complaint  on   the    part  of  the  minority. 
1  believe    we    ha\e    always    had    our    lair 
share  of  the  public  grants  in   so  far   as  tlie 
French  clement  could  control  them,  and  not 
only  the    liberty,  but   every  iacility,  lor  the 
establishment  of  separate  dissentient  &choi>ls 
wherever   they  were   deemed   desirable.     A 
single  person  has  the  right,  under   the  law, 
of    establishing    a    dissentient    school    and 
obtaining   a  fair  share    of   the    educational 
grant,  if  he  can  gather  together  fifteen  child- 
ren who  desire  instruction  in   it.     Now,  wo 
cannot  forget  that  in  the  past  this  liberality 


has  been  shown  to  us,  and  that  whatever  we 
desired  of  the  French  majority  in  respect  to 
education,  they  were,  if  it  was  at  all  reason- 
able, willing  to  concede.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
have  thus,  in  this  also,  the  guarantee  of  the 
past  that  nothing  will  be  done  in  the  future 
unduly  to  interfere  with  our  rights  and  inter- 
C'-ts  as  regards  education,  and  I  believe  that 
everything  we  desire  will  be  as  freely  given 
by  the  Local  Legislature  as  it  was  before  the 
union  of  the  Canadas.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
from  whence  comes  the  practical  difficulty  of 
dealing  with  the  question  at  the  present  mo- 
ment ?  We  should  not  forget  that  it  does 
not  come  from  our  French-Canadian  brethren 
in  Lower  Canada,  but  that  it  arises  in  this 
way — and  I  speak  as  one  who  has  watched 
the  course  of  events  and  the  opinion  of 
the  country  upon  the  subject — that  the 
Protestant  majority  in  Upper  Canada  are 
indisposed  to  disturb  the  settlement  made 
a  couple  of  years  ago,  with  regard  to 
separate  schools,  and  rather  to  hope  that  the 
French  majority  in  Lower  Canada  should 
concede  to  the  English  Protestant  minority 
there,  nothing  more  than  is  given  to  the 
minority  in  the  other  section  of  the  province. 
But  still  it  must  be  conceded  that  there  are 
certain  points  where  the  present  educational 
system  demands  modification — points  in 
which  the  English  Protestant  minority  of 
Lower  Canada  expect  a  modification.  I 
would  ask  my  honorable  friend  the  Attorney 
General  East,  whether  the  system  of  educa- 
tion which  is  in  force  in  Lower  Canada  at 
the  time  of  the  proclamation  is  to  remain  and 
be  the  system  of  education  for  all  time  to 
come ;  and  that  whatever  rights  are  given 
to  either  of  the  religious  sections  shall  con- 
tinue to  be  guaranteed  to  them  ?  We  are 
called  upon  to  vote  for  the  resolutions  in 
ignorance,  to  some  extent,  of  the  guarant.es 
to  be  given  by  subsequent  legislation,  and 
therefore  my  honorable  friend  will  not  take 
it  amiss  if  I  point  out  to  him  where  the 
Protestant  minority  desire  a  change,  with  a 
view  of  ascertaining  how  far  the  Government 
is  disposed  to  meet  their  views  by  coming 
down  with  a  measure  in  which  they  may  be 
embodied.  The  first  thing  I  wish  to  men- 
tion lias  caused  a  good  deal  ol  difficulty  in 
our  present  system,  and  that  is,  whether 
non-resident  proprietors  shall  have  the  same 
right  of  designating  the  class  oi  schotds  to 
wluch  their  tuxes  shall  be  given  as  actual 
residents.  That  is  one  point — whether  a 
person  living  out  of  the  district  or  township 


411 


shall  not  have  the  same  privilege  of  saying 
that  his  taxes  shall  he  given  to  a  dissentient 
school  as  if  he  resided  upon  the  property. 
A  second  point  is  with  reference  to  taxes  on 
the  property  of  incorporated  companies.  As 
it  is  now,  such  taxes  go  in  a  manner  which 
is  not  considered  satisfactory  to  the  minority 
of  Lower  Canada.  What  I  desire  to  ascertain 
is  whether  some  equitable  provision  will  be 
made,  enabling  the  taxes  on  such  property 
to  be  distributed  in  some  way  more  satisfac- 
tory to  the  owners — perhaps  in  the  same  way 
that  the  Government  money  is.  Soroehave 
urged  that  it  should  be  left  to  the  directors 
of  such  companies  to  indicate  the  schools  to 
which  such  taxes  should  be  given,  while 
others  think  that  each  individual  shareholder 
shciuld  have  the  power  to  say  how  the  taxes 
on  his  property  should  be  applied.  I  am 
inclined  to  think  the  latter  method  would  be 
found  utterly  impracticable.  I  confess  it  is 
an  extreme  view,  and  I  do  not  think  we 
could  expect  that.  But  I  do  think  there 
ought  to  be  some  more  equitable  way  of 
appropriating  the  taxes  on  such  property. 
'J'hese  are  two  points,  of  perhaps  inferior 
importance  to  the  third,  andthat  is,  whether 
a  more  direct  control  over  the  administration 
and  maniigement  of  the  dissentient  schools 
in  Lower  Canada  will  not  be  given  to  the 
Protestant  minority  ',  whether  in  fact  they 
will  not  be  left  in  some  measure  to  them- 
selves. I  am  quite  well  aware  that  this  is  a 
question  that  concerns  both  Catholics  and 
Protestants,  for  I  believe  that  about  one- 
third  of  the  dissentient  schools  are  Catholic 
schools. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Dissentient  on 
account  of  language. 

Hon.  Mr.  ^CARTTER— There  are  none 
dissentient  on  account  of  language. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Well,  what  for 
then? 

Hon  Mr.  CARTIER— Well,  not  on  ac- 
count of  language  ;  there  is  no  difficulty  on 
account  of  that. 

Hon  Mr.  ROSE— The  question  relates 
to  all  dissentient  schools,  from  whatever 
cause  they  may  have  been  led  to  dissent.  The 
remedy  can  be  made  to  apply  equally  to  all. 
I  do  not  ask  what  precise  measure  will  be 
brought  down,  but  I  do  think  they  ought  to 
have  more  control  than  they  now  possess. 
The  final  question  is  one  relating  somewhat 
to  the  finances,  and  therefore  belongs  more 
properly  to  my  hon.  friend  the  Minister  of 
Finance. 


Hon.  Mr.  G ALT— You  shall  have  an 
answer  immediately. 

Hon.  Mr.  C ARTIER— Mr.  Speaker, 
as  usual,  I  am  ready  to  answer  categorical 
questions,  and  I  will  answt^r  my  hon.  friend 
in  such  a  way  as  to  satisfy  both  the  House 
and  my  hon.  friend.  With  regard  to  the 
first  point,  respecting  non-residents  in  the 
townships,  I  may  say  that  it  is  the  intention 
of  the  Government,  in  a  me-^sure  which  is 
to  bo  introduced,  to  give  those  who  are  in  a 
minority  power  to  designate  to  what  dissenti- 
ent schools  their  assessment  shall  be  paid. 

Hon.  J  S.  MACDONALD— Only  in 
townships  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  C  ARTIER— Everywhere.  Not 
to  Catholics  alone  either.  With  regard  to 
the  second  question — the  distribution  of 
money  raised  from  commercial  companies — I 
am  well  aware  that  to  this  day  there  has  been 
a  complaint  with  regard  to  the  distribution 
of  those  moneys.  It  is  the  intention  of  the 
Government  to  have  in  the  measure  a  pro- 
vision which  will  secure  a  more  equitable 
distribution  of  those  moneys,  distributing 
them  in  such  a  way  as  to  satisfy  everyone. 
(H^ar,  hear,  and  laughter.)  Now,  with  re- 
gard to  the  third  enquiry,  I  am  ready  also 
to  answer  my  honorable  friend  from  Montreal 
Centre,  that  it  is  the  intention  of  the 
Government  that  in  that  law  there  will  be  a 
provision  that  will  secure  to  the  Protestant 
minority  in  Lower  Canada  such  manage- 
ment and  control  over  their  schools  as  will 
satisfy  them.  (Laughter  and  cheers.)  Now, 
with  regard  to  my  hon.  frind  from  Chateau- 
guay,  who  said  that  there  were  dissentient 
schools  on  account  of  language. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  hon.  gentle- 
man must  have  misunderstood  what  I  said. 
The  honorable  member  from  Montreal  Centre 
was  saying  that  there  were  dissentient  schools 
on  account  of  religion.  I  merely  suggested 
that  there  might  be  dissentient  schools  on 
account  of  language.  There  was  nothing  in 
the  law  to  prevent  it..  There  might  be 
Catholic  dissentient  schools  in  municipalities 
where  the  majority  was  Protestant. 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— The  honorable 
member  for  Chateauguay  has  the  laws  of 
Lower  Canada  in  his  posses.5ion.  Well,  he 
will  not  find  there  that  there  is  any  such 
thing  as  Catholic  or  Protestant  schools 
mentioned.  What  are  termed  in  Upper 
Canada  separate  schools,  come  under  the 
appropriate  word,  in  Lower  Canada,  of  dis- 
sentient.   It  is  stated  that  where  the  majority 


41^ 


is  of  either  religion,  the  dissentient  minority 
— either  Catholic  or  Protestant — have  the 
right  to  establish  di^ssentient  schools.  In 
the  cities  the  majority  being  Catholics,  the 
dissentient  schools  are  Protestant,  but  in  the 
townships,  the  majority  is  sometimes  Protes- 
tant and  the  dissentient  schools  Catholic. 

Mr.  POPE— What  will  be  the  provision 
made,  where  the  population  is  pretty  sparse, 
as  in  some  parts  of  my  county  ?  Will  you 
allow  the  minority  of  one  township  to  join 
with  a  neighboring  township  for  the  purpose 
of  establishing  a  dissentient  school  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— Yes.  There  will 
be  a  provision  enabling  the  minority  to  join 
with  their  friends  in  a  contiguous  munici- 
pality in  order  to  make  up  the  requisite 
number. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— While  the 
Government  is  in  a  communicative  mood — 
(laughter) — I  think  it  is  of  some  importance 
that  we  should  know  whether  it  is  the  in- 
tention of  the  Government  to  extend  the 
same  rights  and  privileges  to  the  Catholic 
minority  of  Upper  Canada  that  are  to  be 
given  to  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAkTIER— I  cannot  do  my 
own  work  and  the  work  of  others.  The 
Hon.  Attorney  General  for  Upper  Canada 
is  not  present,  but  I  have  no  doubt  that  on 
some  future  occasion  he  will  be  able  to 
answer  my  honorable  friend  from  Corawall. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALO— In  the  ab- 
sence of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West, 
perhaps  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council 
will  be  kind  enough  to  give  us  the  desired 
information  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— If  my  hen.  friend 
wants  an  answer  from  me,  I  can  only  say 
that  the  provisions  of  the  School  bill  relat- 
ing to  Upper  Canada  have  not  yet  been 
considered  by  the  Government.  As  soon  as 
a  bill  is  framed  there  will  be  no  delay  in 
laying  it  before  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN— I  sincerely  hope 
that  the  Government  feel  disposed  to  grant 
to  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada  th ;  same 
privileges  they  have  just  promised  to  the 
Protestants  of  Lower  Canada. 

FIoN.  Mil.  ROSHi — The  manner  and  spirit 
in  which  the  Government  have  given  ex- 
planations on  the  subject  ought  to  be  satisfac- 
tory to  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  of  the 
Protestant  religion.  The  liberal  manner  in 
which  they  have  been  dealt  with  in  the  past 
gives  us  every  reason  to  be  convinced  that 
we  will  receive  justice.     (Hc?vr,  hear.)     I 


have  no  hesitation  in  saying  that  I  have  full 
confidence  that  the  Lower  Canada  section  of 
the  Administration  will  deal  with  us  in  a  fair 
and  liberal  spirit.  I  have  confidence  in  my 
hon.  friend  the  Minister  of  Finance,  and  in 
my  hon.  friend  the  Attorney  General  East, 
and  I  am  glad  to  learn  that  he  will  give  all 
proper  consideration  to  that  financial  ques- 
tion, the  distribution  of  the  assessment  of 
commercial  companies  in  a  satisfactory  man- 
ner. I  hope  the  Minister  of  Finance  will 
be  disposed  to  go  further,  and  deal  in  a 
similar  spirit  with  the  endowment  of  col- 
leges. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Bring  the  pressure 
to  bear,  and  you  will  get  it.  Now  is  the 
time,  before  the  Confederation  scheme  comes 
to  a  vote. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— Well,  it  happens  that 
my  honorable  friend  from  Chateauguay  and 
myself  hold  very  dissimilar  views  respect- 
ing the  importance  of  Confederation.  If 
I  were  disposed  to  follow  such  tactics, 
I  might  possibly  profit  by  his  advice.  But 
I  am  inclined  to  overlook  a  great  many 
things  on  which  my  honorable  fiiend 
would  hesitate,  for  the  purpose  of  seeing  so 
important  a  measure  carried  out.  While  I 
have  every  confidence  in  the  present  Govern- 
ment, I  feel  that  we  may  expect  as  much 
justice  at  the  hands  of  the  Lower  Canada 
Local  Parliament  as  from  any  Government 
of  United  Canada  that  we  ever  had.  We 
have  never  yet  had  occasion  to  appeal  to  the 
Protestant  majority  of  Upper  Canada  for  help, 
and  if  we  ever  should  deem  it  j  roper  to  do 
so,  I  have  no  reason  to  believe  that  we  should 
receive  more  attention  than  our  wants  re- 
ceived at  the  hands  of  the  Catholic  majo- 
rity of  Lower  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now, 
sir,  so  far  as  the  three  questions  to  which  I 
have  made  allusion  are  concerned,  the  appre- 
hensions of  being  shut  out  from  the  General 
Government — being  handed  over  to  the 
French  in  the  Local  Parliament  of  Lower 
Canada,  and  our  educational  rights  being 
interfered  with,  I  feel  every  assurance  that 
the  spirit  of  the  answers  just  given  will  be 
carried  out.  I  will  now  say  a  few  words 
respecting  the  :irgu:iient  prohcnted  by  my 
hon.  friend  from  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  Do- 
rion)  in  the  course  of  his  speech  the  other 
evening — that  the  plan  for  Federation  would 
inflict  great  financial  injustice  upon  Canada, 
and  that  it  would,  throutrh  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  and  works  ol"  defence,  entail  such 
enormous  butdeus  upon  the  people  of  Canada 


413 


as  to  ultimately  lead  them  to  rise  up  against 
and  overthrow  it.  Well  now,  for  the  life  of 
me  I  cannot  see  how  it  is  to  increase  our 
expenditure.  I  cannot  see  how  it  can  go 
beyond  what  the  Minister  of  Finance  stated 
— that  it  could  not  in  any  case  add  to  tho 
present  cost  more  than  the  expenses  of  the 
General  Government.  The  Local  Govern- 
ments cannot  be  more  expensive  thaa  the 
present  Government,  and  tlierefore  all  we 
need  to  add  at  the  very  most  i.s  the  expense 
of  the  General  Government.  I  do  not  see 
how  it  is  possible  to  add  any  more.  I  would, 
however,  ask  the  attention  of  the  House  to 
another  statement  made  the  other  evening 
by  the  hon.  member  from  Hochelaga.  He 
said  that  we  were  making  a  mistake  in  sup- 
posing that  we  were  discussing  a  question  of 
colonial  union.  Confederation,  he  said,  was 
simply  tacked  on  to  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way at  the  suggestion  of  Mr.  Watkin,  and 
that  the  whole  arrangement  was  merely  a 
nicely  planned  scheme  for  the  benefit  of  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway. 

Mb.  WALLBRIDGE— That  was  the  very 
motive. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — Well,  does  any  one 
suppose  that  my  hon.  friend  the  President 
of  the  Council  could  be  duped  in  that  way  ? 
Is  it  possible  that  my  hon.  friend  from  Ho- 
chelasra  believes  he  has  so  little  astuteness 
as  not  to  see  through  such  an  attempt  as  that  ? 
The  argument  was  used  to  get  the  support 
of  the  opponents  of  railways  in  this  House 
against  the  Federation.  Sir,  it  would  appear 
that  the  hon.  President  of  the  Council,  and 
the  hon.  Provincial  Secretary  and  the  other 
members  of  the  Governmeot,  who  are  anti- 
railway  in  their  views,  have  been  altogether 
mistaken,  and  that  we  are  merely  going  to 
build  up  another  gigantic  railway  monopoly 
for  fraudulent  purposes.  They  may  all  be 
deceived  by  this  imaginary  project,  and  it 
would  seem  too,  sir,  that  Mr.  Watkin,  pos- 
sessing the  wiles  of  Mephistopheles,  had 
hoodwinked  the  Governor  General,  and  the 
Colonial  Secretry,  and  caused  them  to  fall 
into  the  trap  also.  Nay,  further,  it  would 
appear  that  his  wiles  had  reached  the  Thront 
itself,  for  Her  Majesty  has  expressed  herself 
in  the  speech  to  Parliament  in  favor  of  the 
scheme.     (Hear,  hear.) 

HuN.  Mr.  HOLTON— Order,  order. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — Can  it  be  supposed 
that  a  grave  and  important  matter  of  this 
kind  would  have  received  such  consideration 
from  the  Home  Government,  if  it  were 
nothing  more  than  a  Grand  Trunk  job  ?    My 


hon.  friend  opposite  sonorously  cries  "Order," 
when  I  come  to  deal  with  his  late  colleague's 
arguments  as  the  only  answer  he  can  give. 
Does  he  suppose  I  am  going  to  allow  a  grave 
charge  of  such  a  nature  to  go  unan-swered  ? 

Hox.  Mr.HOLTOX— If  I  called  "Order," 
it  was  becau-e  I  considered  that  Her  Majesty 
ought  not  to  have  been  mentiouod  in  con- 
nection  with  the  term  "  hoodwink."  Her 
advisers  were  the  responsible pirties.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  M  r.  ROSE— I  repeat  that  the  Speech* 
from  the  xhrouc  which  we  have  received  to- 
day, and  to  which  I  have  a  perfect  right  to 
refer^  does  not  treat  this  measure  as  anything 
akintoaGrandTruukjob.  Itisrealiypresum- 
ingtooniuchon  the  part  of  my  hon.  friend  from 
Hochelaga  to  get  up  and  say  in  effect  to  the 
members  of  this  House  :  "  You  know  nothing 
about  this  scheme  ;  you  cannot  see  or  under- 
stand what  it  really  is;  but  my  astuteness 
enables  me  to  s^ee  that  it  isnothing  more  than 
a  mere  railway  job."  s^Laughter.)  Does 
the  hon.  member  really  believe  what  he 
has  stated  ?  Does  he  really  believe  that  the 
whole  project  is  for  the  benefit  of  the  Grand 
Trunk  'f  It  is  a  most  unworthy  cour.:5e  for  him 
to  pursue  to  endeavor  to  bring  old  prejudices 
against  the  Grand  Trunk  Company,  to  bear 
in  the  manner  he  has  been  doing;  prejudices 
and  animosities  based  upon  stories  that  have 
been  repeated  until  a  further  reference  to 
them  seems  almost  childish.  But  it  is  not 
possible  that  any  honorable  member's  judg- 
ment can  be  carried  away  by  those  little 
appeals  to  side  issues,  on  a  question  of  this 
important  nature.  What  does  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne  say  : — 

Her  Majesty  has  had  great  satisfaction  in  giving 
her  sanction  to  the  meeting  of  a  conference  of 
delegates  from  her  several  North  American  Pro- 
vinces, who,  on  an  invitation  from  Eer  Majesty's 
Governor  General,  assembled  at  Quebec  These 
delegates  adopted  resolutions  ha\ang  for  their 
object  a  closer  union  ot  those  provinces  under  a 
Central  Government.  If  those  resolutions  shall 
be  ai^proved  by  the  Pioviucial  Legislatures,  a  bill 
will  be  laid  before  yoa  for  carrying  this  important 
measure  into  effect. 

(Loud  cheers.)  This  is  (he  language  used 
by  our  Sovereign  when  addressing  the 
Imperial  Parliament,  and  are  we  now 
to  be  urged  to  under  estimate  the  value 
of  the  great  project  by  mere  appeals 
to  the  prejudices  of  the  people  at  large 
against  the  threatened  monopoly  of  the 
Grand  Trunk  Railway.  The  opinion  of  Her 
Majesty  is  shared  in,  too,  by  some  of  tha 


4>14f 


greatest  statesmen  of  England,  whose  names 
are  identified  with  the  history  of  the  nation. 
What  said  Lord  Derby  in  reference  to 
Confederation  ?  Does  he  consider  it  to 
emanate  from  a  mere  clique  of  railway 
speculators  ?  Speaking  of  the  relation  of 
Canada  to  the  United  States — and  his  remarks 
come  in  most  opportunely  in  connection 
with  the  ohservations  I  made  at  the  outset — 
speaking  of  defending  the  upper  lakes  with 
aruied  vessels,  the  noble  lord  says  : — 

I  do  not  ask  Her  Majesty's  Government  what 
steps  they  have  taken,  but  I  do  say  this,  that  they 
will  be  deeply  responsible  if  they  are  not  fully 
awake  to  the  position  in  which  this  country  is 
placed  by  these  two  acts  of  the  United  States.  If 
the  preponderating  force  upon  the  lakes  should  be 
in  the  hands  of  the  United  States,  it  could  only  be 
used  for  purposes  of  ae^ression.  (Hear,  hear.) 
An  attack  on  the  part  of  Canada  upon  the  United 
States  is  a  [hysical  impossibility.  The  long  fron- 
tier of  Canada  is  peculiarly  open  to  aggression ; 
and  assailnble  as  it  is  by  land,  unless  there  be  a 
preponderating  force  upon  these  lakes,  you  must 
be  prepared  to  place  the  province  of  Canada  at 
the  disposal  of  the  United  States. 

I  prefer  the  appreciation  of  Lord  Derby, 
and  his  opinion  of  the  state  of  these  af- 
fairs, to  the  ironical  cheers  or  opinion 
of  my  honorable  friend  from  Chateauguay. 
I  place  what  the  noble  lord  has  said  as  to 
the  Confederation  question  in  its  relation  to 
the  defence  of  these  provinces  and  the 
strength  to  he  thereby  added  to  the  Govern- 
ment of  England,  before  anything  which  he 
or  the  other  opponents  of  this  scheme  can 
express.  The  noble  lord  says  with  regard 
to  the  great  measure  itself: — 

Under  the  circumstances  I  see,  with  additional 
aatisfaction,  the  announcement  '^f  a  contemplated 
step—  I  mean  the  proposed  Federation  of  the 
British  North  American  Provinces.  I  hope  T  may 
regard  that  Federation  as  a  measure  tending  to 
constitute  a  power  strong  enough,  with  the  aid  of 
this  country,  which,  I  trust,  may  never  be  with- 
drawn from  these  provinces — to  acquire  an  impor- 
tance which  .separately  they  could  not  obtain.  If 
I  Raw  in  this  Federation  a  desire  to  separate  from 
this  country,  I  should  think  it  a  matter  of  much 
more  doubtful  policy  and  advantage;  but  I  per- 
ceive with  satisfaction  that  no  such  wish  is  enter- 
tained. Perhaps  it  is  premature  to  discuss  at  this 
moment  resolutions  not  yet  submitted  to  the  dif- 
ferent leirislatures  ;  but  I  hope  I  see  in  the  terms 
of  that  F<'derati()n  an  earnest  desire  on  the  part 
of  th(!  provinces  to  mainlain  for  themselves  tho 
blessing  of  the  connection  with  this  country,  and 
a  determined  and  deliberate  preference  for  mon- 
archical over  republican  institutions. 

(Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  Now,  sir,  could  there 
be  anything  more  opportune  ?   Thia  ig  the  lan- 


guage of  one  of  the  ablest  statesmen  of  Eng- 
land. Be  united,  he  says,  that  you  may  be 
strong,  and  depend  upon  it  you  will  have  the 
whole  power  of  England  to  sustain  you.  Can 
there  be  anything  more  cheering  or  encourag- 
ing to  those  who  have  taken  an  interest  in  the 
subject,  than  the  language  I  have  just  quoted, 
and  which  was  uttered  in  the  House  of 
Lords  not  three  weeks  ago  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
And  yet  my  honorable  friend  from  Hochelaga 
presumes  to  stand  up  here  and  tell  us,  in 
effect,  that  we  are  so  many  children — that  we 
are  deceived  with  the  idea  that  we  are  going 
to  establish  a  great  nation  or  Confederation  of 
provinces,  and  that  there  is  nothing  of  that 
kind  in  it ;  and  he  appeals  to  prejudices  for- 
merly entertained  by  members  on  this  side  of 
the  House,  in  order  that  he  may  induce  them 
to  withdraw  their  support  from  the  important 
measure  which  the  Government  has  brought 
down,  and  which  the  greatest  statesmen  of 
England  have  stamped  with  their  approval. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Perhaps  the  House  will  indulge 
me  if  I  read  a  few  more  words  from  the  dis- 
cussion in  the  House  of  Lords  upon  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne.  Earl  Granville,  the 
President  of  the  Council,  said  : — 

And  what  ought  to  make  us  still  more  proud 
of  the  good  government  which  must  undoubtedly 
have  prevailed  amongst  us,  is  to  find  that  our 
North  American  colonies,  in  expressing  their 
wish  to  continue  their  connexion  with  this  coun- 
try, and  in  adopting  the  new  institutions  they 
have  been  considering  with  such  calm  and  prudent 
statesmanship,  have  thought  it  desirable  to  keep 
as  close  as  possible  to  the  constitution  and  insti- 
tutions under  which  we  so  happily  live. 

(Loud  cheers.)  He  does  not  belittle  the  men 
who  have  sacrificed  so  much,  as  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite  are  inclined  to  do.  He 
does  not  sneer  at  those  who  have  gone  into 
the  matter  with  the  honest  view  of  carry- 
ing it  out ;  but,  on  the  contrary,  he  praises 
their  "  calm  and  prudent  statesmanship," 
and  says  that  it  is  a  matter  of  which  they 
may  feel  proud,  and  I  say  that  those  who 
have  taken  part  in  originating  and  bring- 
ing this  project  to  the  present  advanced 
sta^e,  may  well  feel  proud  of  their  work, 
when  the  greatest  statesmen  of  the  world  com- 
mend it  as  a  thing  of  wonderful  perfection, 
considering  the  difficulties  with  which  it  is 
surrounded.  And  these  opinions  were  iiot 
confined  to  any  one  party,  but  were  uttered 
by  both  liberals  and  conservatives.  Lord 
Houghton  said  in  the  course  of  tho  same 
debate : — 

On  the  other  side  of  tho  Atlantic  the  same  im- 
poise  has  manifested  iteelf  in  the  propoBed  amal- 


415 


gamatioQ  of  the  Northern  Provinces  of  British 
America.  I  heartily  concur  with  all  that  has 
been  said  by  my  noble  friend  the  mover  of  this 
address  in  his  laudation  of  that  project.  It  is, 
my  lords,  a  most  interesting  contemplation  that 
that  project  has  arisen  and  has  been  approved  by 
Her  Majesty's  Government.  It  is  certainly  con 
trary  to  what  might  be  considered  the  old 
maxims  of  government  in  connection  with  the 
colonies,  that  we  should  here  express,  and  that 
the  Crown  itself  should  express  saiisfaction  at  a 
measure  which  tends  to  bind  together  in  almost  in- 
dependent power  our  colonies  in  North  America. 
We  do  still  believe  that  though  thus  banded 
together  they  will  recognize  the  value  of  British 
connection,  and  that  while  they  will  be  safer  in 
this  amalgamation  we  shall  be  as  safe  in  their 
fealty.  The  measure  will,  no  doubt,  my  lords, 
require  much  prudent  consideration  and  great  at- 
tention to  prevent  susceptibilities.  It  will  have 
to  deal  with  several  British  provinces,  but  with  a 
race  almost  foreign  in  their  habits  and  origin.  I 
do  hope  it  will  ultimately  succeed,  and  that  the 
French-Canadians  forming  part  of  this  great  in- 
tegral North  British  American  empire  will  have 
as  much  security  and  happiness  as  they  can 
attain. 

Those  who  say  that  the  people  throughout 
the  country  are  opposed  to  this  measure,  I  am 
satisfied,  know  very  little  what  the  sentiment 
of  the  country  is.  I  believe  there  is  a  deep- 
rooted  sentiment  of  approbation  of  the  steps 
that  have  been  taken.  I  know  that  those 
who  are  perhaps  most  fearful  with  reference 
to  it,  and  whose  interests  are  perhaps  most  in 
jeopardy — the  English  speaking  minority  in 
Lower  Canada — have  considered  it  carefully, 
and  with  all  their  prejudices  against  it  at  the 
outset,  are  now  warmly  in  its  favor.  I  speak 
particularly  of  those  who  have  great  interests 
at  stake  in  the  community  which  I  represent 
— the  great  and  varied  interests  of  commerce, 
trade,  banking,  manufactures  and  material 
progress  generally,  which  are  supposed  to 
centre  in  the  city  of  Montreal.  These  mea — 
and  there  are  none  more  competent  in  the 
province — have  considered  the  scheme  in  a 
calm  and  business-like  way,  and  have  deliber- 
ately come  to  the  conclusion  that  it  is  calcu- 
lated to  promote  the  best  interests  and  greatly 
enhance  the  prosperity  of  this  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Weil  knowing  that  they  are  to  be  in  a 
minority  in  the  Local  Legislature,  and  to  be  cut 
off,  as  it  were,  from  those  of  their  own  race 
and  religion  in  Upper  Canada,  yet,  after  con- 
sidering how  the  change  is  to  affect  the  im- 
portant interests  which  they  have  at  stake, 
they  are  prepared  to  cast  in  their  lot  with  the 
measure,  and  endeavor  to  make  it  work  har- 
moniously. (Hear,  hear.)  And  I  believe, 
Mr.  Speaker,  that  we  have  not  a  day  to  lose 


in  carrying  out  the  project.  I  believe  the 
question  of  preparing  for  the  defence  of  this 
country  is  an  imminent  one.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  is  not,  I  repeat,  a  day  or  an  hour  to  be 
lost,  and  I  believe  that  if  this  country  is  put 
into  a  proper  condition  of  defence,  the  union 
will  be  the  best  safeguard  we  can  have.  If 
our  neighbors  see  that  we  have  the  means  of 
causing  them  to  sit  down  on  our  frontier  and 
spend  a  summer  before  they  can  hope  to  make 
any  impression  upon  the  country,  we  will  then 
be  in  a  pretty  good  condition  to  defend  our- 
selves. I  trust  that  the  blessings  of  peace 
may  long  be  preserved  to  us,  that  the  good 
feeling  which  ought  to  subsist  between  Can- 
ada and  the  United  States  may  never  be  in- 
terrupted ;  that  two  kindred  nations  which 
have  so  many  ties,  so  many  interests,  and  so 
many  associations  in  common,  may  never  be- 
come enemies,and  I  think  that  we  ought  to  make 
every  honorable  concession  in  order  to  avert 
the  calamities  of  war.  No  man  can  appre- 
ciate the  blessings  of  peace  more  than  I  do, 
and  no  one  is  more  alive  to  the  horrors  of  war 
than  I  am.  But  at  the  same  time  we  cannot 
conceal  from  ourselves  the  fact  that  within 
the  last  three  or  four  years  we  have  sev- 
eral times  been  seriously  threatened.  It 
is  not  in  the  power  of  any  man  to  say 
when  the  cloud,  which  so  darkly  over- 
shadows us,  may  burst  in  full  fury  on  our 
heads,  and  those  who  have  the  direction  of 
the  destinies  of  this  country  ought  to  be  pre- 
pared to  do  all  that  in  them  lies  to  place  it  in 
a  position  to  meet  that  event.  We  cannot 
recede  from  the  position  we  have  assumed. 
We  cannot  go  back,  we  must  go  forward ; 
and  it  is  certain  to  my  mind  that  if  what  has 
now  been  undertaken  is  not  consummated,  we 
will  regret  it  in  years  to  come.  I  have  but  to 
add  one  word  more,  and  I  must  apologize  to 
the  House  for  the  time  I  have  already  occu- 
pied. (Cries  of  "Goon.")  I  am  afraid  I 
have  very  much  transgressed  the  limits  I  had 
assigned  to  myself.  There  is  but  one  point 
more,  and  I  have  done.  My  honorable  friend 
opposite  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  says  that  this 
scheme  is  going  to  ruin  us  financially — that  it 
is  financially  unfair.  But  he  has  failed  to 
point  out  in  what  feature  this  can  be  regarded 
as  financially  injurious  to  any  particular  sec- 
tion. There  can  be  nothing  fairer  to  my 
mind  than  that,  in  forming  a  partnership  be- 
tween these  five  provinces,  the  amount  of  the 
debt  should  be  equalised  at  the  time  the  part- 
nership is  formed,  and  that  whatever  one  is 
short  should  be  made  up  by  an  annual  grant 
to  the  other,  not  an  increasing  one  but  a  fixed 


416 


sum.  There  can  be  notliing  unfair  in  the 
application  of  such  a  principle  as  that.  Of 
course  the  interest  on  the  debt,  -whatever  it 
may  be,  must  be  met  by  taxation.  "  And," 
says  my  honorable  friend,  "  tlie  Lo^wer  Pro- 
vinces are  less  able  to  pay  taxation  than  we 
are,  and  therefore  the  great  bulk  of  the  taxa- 
tion will  have  to  come  out  of  the  inhabitants 
of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  and  particularly 
the  merchants  of  the  city  of  Montreal . ' '  Well, 
sir,  is  not  this  just?  Is  it  not  fair  that  the 
richest  portion  of  the  community  should  pay 
the  most  taxes  ?  Does  my  honorable  friend 
mean  to  say  that  those  who  consume  most 
ought  not  to  pay  most  to  the  revenue  ?  And 
if  the  people  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  are 
larger  consumers  than  the  people  of  the  Lower 
Provinces,  ought  they  not  to  contribute  ac- 
cording to  their  consumption  to  the  revenue  ? 
"But,  oh,"  says  my  honorable  friend,  "the 
people  of  the  Lower  Provinces  get  their 
80  cents  per  head,  and  we  get  no  more, 
although  we  are  much  larger  contributors 
to  the  revenue."  And,  he  adds,  "the 
amount  to  be  derived  from  the  contribu- 
tions to  the  revenue  by  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces will  be  very  infinitesimal."  But  grant- 
ed, for  argument's  sake,  that  this  is  so,  I  think 
we  ought  not  to  undervalue  in  this  discussion 
the  collateral  advantage  which  the  control  of 
the  fisheries  will  give  to  the  united  govern- 
ment in  the  union  to  be  formed.  Remember 
that  these  fisheries  will  form  an  important 
part  in  the  future  negotiations  with  the  Uni- 
ted States  in  reference  to  reciprocity,  which 
Upper  Canada  attaches  so  much  importance 
to.  Hence  Canada  in  this  union  will  have 
the  control  of  the  policy  in  regard  to  the  con- 
cession of  fishing  rights  to  the  American 
Government.  And  it  is  in  this  respect  that 
the  future  commercial  position  of  the  Upper 
Canada  I'armer  and  the  Lower  Canada  mer- 
chant will  be  enhanced  by  the  fact  that  the 
concession  of  the  fisheries  will  procure  for 
them  advantages  in  other  branches  of  trade ; 
for  I  repeat  that  the  future  policy  will  be  di- 
rected in  a  great  measure  by  the  influence 
wielded  by  Canada  in  the  Confederation. — 
(Hear,  hear.)  My  honorable  friend,  however, 
goes  on  to  say,  "  But  you  are  about  to  incur  a 
large  amount  of  debt.  Lower  Canada  entered 
into  the  present  union  witli  a  debt  of  only 
$.300,000  or  8400,000,  and  the  united  debt 
of  the  two  provinces  is  now  $07,000,000." 
Well,  sir,  this  is  quite  true.  But  Lower 
Canada,  when  she  entered  the  union,  had  only 
a  population  of  600,000,  and  Upper  Canada 
a  population  of  400,000.     There  was  not  at 


that  time  a  mile  of  railway ;  now  there  are 
upwards  of  2,000.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  was 
hardly  a  light-house,  and  see  how  the  St.Law- 
rence  and  lakes  are  lighted  now  from  Lake 
Superior  to  Belleisle.  (Hear,  hear.)  She  went 
into  the  union  without  a  canal,  and  she  has 
now  the  finest  canal  system  in  the  world. 
(Hear,  hear.)  She  had  no  educational  sys- 
tem, and  look  at  the  state  of  education  among 
us  at  the  present  time.  (Hear,  hear.)  She 
was  without  a  municipal  system,  and  ,look  at 
the  municipal  institutions  of  Lower  Canada 
as  they  are  to  be  found  to-day.  (Hear,  hear.) 
She  went  into  the  union  with  the  seigniorial 
tenure  grinding  as  it  were  the  people,  and 
weighing  down  the  industry  and  enterprise  of 
the  country  ;  and  has  not  the  seigniorial  tenure 
been  abolished  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Does  not  my 
honorable  friend  see  the  advantages  of  all 
these  reforms  and  improvements  ?  And  does 
not  my  honorable  friend  know  that  of  the 
§62,000,000  which  is  regarded  as  Canada's 
proportion  of  the  joint  debt,  $49,000,000  and 
more  have  been  actually  expended  in  and  are 
now  positively  represented  by  public  works  of 
that  value  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Not  in  Lower  Ca- 
nada. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— My  honorable  friend 
says  "  Not  in  Lower  Canada."'  But  does  he 
not  see  that  the  chain  of  canals  which  have 
been  constructed  to  bring  down  the  trade  of 
the  West  to  Montreal  and  Quebec,  is  a  benefit 
of  the  most  substantial  kind  to  Lower  Canada  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)  What  but  these  very  facilities 
have  increased  the  shipping  of  Montreal  some 
five  hundred  per  cent,  within  the  last  few 
years.  Does  my  honorable  friend  mean  to 
say  that  the  connection  of  the  Grand  Trunk 
with  the  western  railways  of  the  United 
States  is  not  a  benefit  to  Lower  Canada  ? 
Docs  he  mean  to  assert  that  the  slides  con- 
structed on  the  Ottawa  so  as  to  bring  lumber 
to  Quebec  is  of  no  advantage  to  Lower  Cana- 
da ?  Surely  he  does  not  measure  everything 
that  is  done  in  the  way  of  improvement  by  a 
petty,  narrow,  sectional  standard,  which  would 
exact  that  unless  a  pound  of  money  hiid  out 
in  a  p:irticular  spot  or  locality  benefited  that 
particular  place,  it  was  thrown  away.  Is 
this  the  policy  which  he  would  like  to  see  in- 
troduced into  the  new  regime  f 

Hon.  Mr.  CART  IE  R— We  have,  too,  the 
Victoria  Bridge. 

IIoN.  Mr.  ROSE— Yes,  we  have  also  the 
Victoria  Bridge.  And  does  my  honorable 
friend  think  that  wo  would  have   had   this 


417 


great  work  had  the  views  he  enunciates  been 
acted  upon  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Leave  us  as 

we  are. 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— We  cannot  be  left  as 
we  are.  I  should  be  content,  Mr.  Speaker, 
were  I  to  live  for  twenty-five  years  after  the 
union  now  contemplated  is  consummated,  I 
should  be  content  to  know  that  I  had  taken  a 
humble  part  in  bringing  it  about,  if  the  pros- 
perity of  the  country  during  the  next  twenty- 
five  years  under  it  were  only  as  great  as  dur- 
ing the  twenty-five  years  that  have  past. 
(Hear,  hear. )  My  honorable  friend  seems  to 
think  that  the  Intercolonial  Railway  is  an  un- 
dertaking of  doubtful  advantage,  if  it  is  not 
one  of  positive  uselessness.  But  does  my  hon. 
friend  think  we  can  safely  continue  in  our 
present  position  of  commercial  dependence  on 
the  United  States  ?  Shall  we  be  denied  ac- 
cess to  the  seaboard  for  a  bale  of  goods  or  a 
bag  of  letters  ?  Are  we  to  be  for  all  time  to 
come  dependent  on  the  fiscal  legislation  of  the 
United  States  ?  Is  it  to  come  to  this,  that  in 
the  winter  season  the  Upper  Canada  farmer 
shall  have  no  means  whereby  he  can  send  a 
barrel  of  flour,  or  the  Lower  Canada  mer- 
chant a  bale  of  goods,  to  the  seaboard,  with- 
out the  leave  of  the  United  States  ?  Is  my 
honorable  friend  disposed  to  leave  us  in  this 
condition  of  commei'cial  dependency  for  ever  ? 
I  can  hardly  believe  he  will  deliberately  say 
that  we  are  to  continue  in  such  circumstances 
as  these — that  under  no  conditions  shall  the 
expense  of  constructing  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way be  incurred.  I  believe  with  him  that 
that  work  is  a  great  and  grave  undertaking, 
and  one  that  will  involve  a  serious  charge  on 
the  wealth  of  the  country.  But  then  I  con- 
tend that  it  is  one  which  we  cannot  avoid — 
it  is  a  necessity.  We  must  have  it.  It  is 
called  for  by  military  reasons  and  commercial 
necessity,  and  the  date  of  its  construction  can- 
not safely  be  postponed.  Why,  what  have  we 
not  seen  within  a  very  recent  period  ?  Re- 
strictions have  been  put  on  goods  sent  through 
the  United  States,  by  the  establishment  of 
consular  certificates,  to  such  an  extent  that 
you  could  not  send  a  bale  of  goods  through 
the  States  without  accompanying  it  with  one 
of  these  certificates,  the  cost  of  which  I  am 
told  was  nearly  $2 — perhaps  more  than  the 
worth  of  the  package,  or  more  than  the  cost 
of  the  freight.  (Hear,  hear.)  Still  further, 
the  Senate  of  the  United  States  had  also  be- 
fore them  a  motion  to  consider  under  what 
regulations  foreign  merchandise  is  allowed  to 
pass  in  bond  through  the  neighbouring  coun- 
54 


try ;  and  this  was  evidently  done  with  an  in 
tention  of  abolishing  the  system  under  which 
goods  were  permitted  to  pass  in  bond  from 
England  through  the  United  States.  I  do 
not  hesitate  to  say  that  if  the  bonding  system 
were  done  away  with,  half  the  merchants 
in  Canada  would  be  seriously  embarrassed 
if  not  ruined  for  the  time.  (Hear,  hear.) 
In  the  winter  season  you  could  not  send  a 
barrel  of  flour  to  England — you  could  not 
receive  a  single  package  of  goods  therefrom. 
The  merchants  would  have  to  lay  in  a  twelve 
months'  stock  of  goods,  and  the  farmer  would 
be  dependent  on  the  condition  of  the  market 
in  spring,  and  would  be  compelled  to  force 
the  sale  of  his  produce  at  that  moment, 
whether  there  was  a  profitable  market  for  it 
then  or  not,  instead  of  having  as  now  a  mar- 
ket at  all  seasons,  as  well  in  England  as  the 
United  States.  So  that  whatever  sacrifices 
attach  to  the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  we  must  have  it,  seeing  that  it  is 
impossible  for  us  to  remain  in  our  present 
position  of  isolation  and  suspense.  It  is  one 
of  the  unfortunate  incidents  of  our  position 
which  we  cannot  get  rid  of.  It  will  be  a 
costly  undertaking,  but  it  is  one  we  must 
make  up  our  minds  to  pay  for,  and  the  sooner 
we  set  about  its  construction  the  better. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— We  must 
always  expect  to  pay  for  what  is  good. 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— But  when  it  is 
good  for  nothing,  what  then  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — I  have  just  done.  I  do 
not  hope  to  convert  my  honorable  friend  ;  but 
I  desired  to  show  how  indispensable  and  how 
desirable  those  communications  are,  and  how 
necessary  it  is  that  they  should  be  effected. 
No  one  can  foresee  what  the  future  of  the 
neighboring  States  will  be — whether  they  will 
be  reconstructed  as  one  union,  or  split  up  into 
two  or  mor£  confederacies.  They  have  a 
dark  and  uncertain  future  before  them,  for 
no  one  can  doubt  that  no  matter  what  their 
condition  as  regards  reconstruction  may  be, 
they  will  have  an  enormous  load  of  debt 
weighing  upon  them,  and  that  they  will  have 
to  encounter  great  difficulties  before  they 
finally  settle  down  into  the  same  state  of  per- 
manent security  as  formerly.  If  we  are  alive 
to  the  natural  advantages  of  our  position, 
unless  we  deliberately  throw  them  away,  we 
can,  whatever  that  future  may  be,  secure  a 
profitable  intercourse  with  them.  Unless  the 
St.  Lawrence  and  Ottawa  cease  to  flow,  and 
the  lakes  dry  up,  those  roads  to  the  ocean  are 
the  natural  outlets  for  the  west,  and  we  can 
turn  them  to  good  account.     We  know^eomo- 


418 


thing  of  the  great  productiveness  of  the  "West- 
ern States.  There  is,  in  fact,  no  limit  to  that 
productiveness,  and  the  necessity  of  their  hav- 
ing another  outlet  to  the  sea,  vrithout  being 
altogether  dependent  upon  New  York  and  Bos- 
ton, is  to  my  mind  very  plain.  This  neces- 
sity of  the  powerful  western  interests  must 
have  a  controlling  influence  in  the  commer- 
cial policy  of  the  United  States ;  and  if  we 
can  direct  the  trade  of  the  Western  States 
down  the  St.  Lawrence  by  2;iving  them  ad- 
ditional facilities,  it  cannot  be  doubted  that 
we  shall  find  therein  a  great  element  of  secu- 
rity for  the  future  peace  of  the  two  countries. 
This  House  will  remember  the  resolutions,  of 
a  couple  of  years  ago,  of  the  states  of  Wis- 
consin and  Illinois  in  reference  to  this  ques- 
tion. These  resolutions  contained  one  or  two 
facts  which  are  of  the  greatest  importance, 
as  showing  the  necessity  existing  in  the  Wes- 
tern States  for  a  channel  of  communication 
through  the  St.  Lawrence.  The  memorial 
founded  on  it  stated  these  facts  : — 

With  one-tenth  of  the  arable  surface  under  cul- 
tivation, the  product  of  wheat  of  the  North-Wes- 
tern States  iu  1862  is  estimated  at  150,000,000 
of  bushels ;  and  from  our  own  State  of  Illinois 
alone  there  has  been  shipped  annually  for  the 
last  two  years,  ;i  surplus  of  food  sufficient  to  feed 
ten  millions  of  people.     For  several  years  past  a 
lamentable  waste  of  crops  actually  harvested  has 
occurred  in  consequence  of  the  inability  of  the 
railways   and  canals  leading  to  the  seaboard  to 
take  off  the  excess.     The  North-West  seems  al- 
ready to  have  arrived  at  a  point  of  production 
beyond  any  possible   capacity  for  transportation 
which  can  be   provided,  except  by  the  great  na- 
tural outlets.      It   has  for  two  successive   years 
crowded    the    canals  and    railways    with    more 
than  100,0U0,000  of  bushels  of  grain,  besides 
immense  quantities  of  other  provisions,  and  vast 
numbers  of  cattle  and   hogs.      This  increasing 
volume  of  business  cannot  be  maintained  without 
recourse  to  the  natural  outlet  of  the  lakes.     The 
future  prosperity  of  these  states  bordering  on  the 
great  lakes  depends  in  a  great  measure  on  cheap 
transportdtion   to   foreign   markets ;  hence  they 
are  vitally  interested  in  the  question  of  opening 
the    t.  Lawrence,  the  great  natural  thoroughfare 
from   the  lakes  to  the   ocean,  through,  aud  by 
which  the  people  of  England  may  enlarge  their 
supplies  of  breadstuffs  and  provisions,  greatly  ex- 
ceeding the    quantity  heretofore  received   from 
the  United  States,  at  one-fourth  less  cost  than  it 
has  heretofore  been   obtained.     From  actual  ex- 
perience derived   from  shipments  of  Indian  corn 
from  Chicago  to  Liverpool,  it  is  shown   that  the 
freight  charges  often  covered  seven-eighths  of  the 
value   of  the  bushel  of  corn  at  Liverpool ;   more 
than  one-half  of  the  cost  of  wheat  is  also  often 
consumed  by  the  present  very  inadequate  means 
of  transportation.     The  European  customer  for 


our  breadstuffs  determines  their  price  in  all  our 
markets.  The  surplus  of  grain  derived  from  the 
North- West  is  fifty  or  sixty  millions  of  bushels 
beyond  the  demand  of  the  Eastern  States,  and 
when  that  surplus  is  carried  to  their  markets,  the 
foreign  quotations  establish  the  value  of  the  en- 
tire harvest.  The  interior  of  North  America  is 
-drained  by  the  St.  Lawrence,  which  furnishes  for 
the  country  bordering  upon  the  lakes  a  natural 
highway  to  the  sea.  Through  its  deep  channel 
must  pass  the  agricultural  productions  of  the 
vast  lake  region.  The  commercial  spirit  of  the 
age  forbids  that  international  jealousy  should  in- 
terfere with  great  natural  thoroughfares,  and  the 
governments  of  Great  Britain  and  the  United 
States  will  appreciate  this  spirit  and  cheerfully 
yield  to  its  influence.  The  great  avenue  to  the 
Atlantic  through  the  St.  Lawrence  being  once 
opened  to  its  largest  capability,  the  laws  of 
trade,  which  it  has  now  been  the  policy  of  the 
Federal  Government  to  obstruct,  will  carry  the 
commerce  of  the  North- West  through  it. 

I  say,  then,  give  us  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
give  us  the  command  of  the  St.  Lawrence, 
give  us  a  government  by  which  we  can  direct 
our  national  policy,  give  us  the  control  of  the 
fisheries,  and  we  will  be  able  to  secure  such 
reciprocal  trade  with  the  United  States  for 
Upper  Canada  as  it  requires.  But  if  we  are 
disunited — if  the  Lower  Provinces  retain  the 
control  of  the  fisheries,  and  Canada  has  nothing 
to  give  in  exchange  for  the  concession  she 
seeks  from  the  United  States  in  the  way  of 
commercial  intercourse,  in  breadstuffs  and 
otherwise — I  say  that  in  such  a  case  as  this 
we  are  very  much  hampered  indeed.  I  have 
detained  the  House  very  much  longer  than  I 
intended,  and  I  fear  that  I  have  exhausted 
the  patience  of  honorable  members.  (Cries 
of  "  No,  no,"  and  "goon.")  I  have  fallen 
into  the  same  error  which  has  been  attributed 
to  others.  But  there  is  a  single  observation 
I  desire  to  offer  in  conclusion,  and  it  has 
reference  to  the  demand  made  by  some  honor- 
able members,  that  there  should  be  a  dissolu- 
tion before  the  {[uestion  is  finally  decided. 
Well,  sir,  time  presLCS.  We  have,  and  I  can- 
not repeat  it  too  often,  not  a  day  or  an  hour 
to  lose  in  undertaking  those  great  works  of 
defence  which  may  be  absolutely  necessary  to 
our  cxistcncG 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— What  works 
of  defence  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— The  works  to  which  I 
have  alluded. 

Mr.  WALLBRIPGE— Where  arc  they? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — Does  any  honorable 
gentleman  know,  or,  if  ho  does  know,  ought 
lie  to  say  publicly  where  they  are  to  be  ?  All 
we  know  is  that  there  must  be  a  large  outlay 


419 


on  the  defences  of  the  countiy,  of  which  the 
Lower  Provinces  will  bear  their  share  and 
the  Imperial  Government  will  bear  its  share  ; 
but  how  do  I  know,  or  ought  any  honorable 
gentleman  here  to  enquire  if  I  did,  whether 
these  works  will  be  at  Point  L^vis,  at  Mont- 
real, at  Kingston,  at  Toronto,  or  where"? 
But  that  there  are  to  be  works,  and  extensive 
works  necessary  to  be  constructed,  so  as  to 
check  sudden  conquest  or  invasion,  does  not 
admit  of  a  doubt.  Does  not  the  honorable 
gentleman  know  that  there  have  been  out 
here  time  and  again  eminent  military  officers, 
under  directions  from  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment, to  ascertain  where  would  be  the  best 
points  for  the  erection  of  those  fortifications  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— And  how 
much  of  the  cost  are  we  to  contribute  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE — I  hope  as  much  as 
may  be  necessary  and  fair.  (Cheers.)  For 
my  part — and  I  know  that  this  feeling  is 
shared  in  by  every  honorable  member  who 
hears  me — I  am  prepared  not  only  to  stake  the 
money  of  others,  but,  if  necessary,  to  expend 
my  last  shilling  on  these  works,  if  they  are 
declared  to  be  essential  for  the  defence  of  the 
country.  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  I  con- 
sider such  precautions  as  much  a  necessity  as 
insuring  one's  house  against  fire.  If  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  means  to  say  that,  in  provid- 
ing for  the  continuance  of  our  national  exist- 
ence, the  people  would  bargain  whether  they 
should  give  a  hundred  pounds  or  a  thousand 
pounds,  I  can  assure  him  he  knows  very  little 
of  the  spirit  of  the  country.  The  people  are 
prepared  to  tax  themselves  to  the  extent  of 
their  last  shilling  in  order  to  defend  themselves 
against  aggression.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not 
pretend  to  know  anything  of  military  opera- 
tions, but  any  man  with  a  head  on  his  should- 
ers must  see  that  there  must  be  works  of  some 
kind  constructed  to  enable  us  to  resist  aggTcs- 
sion. 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— I  pretend  to  have 
a  head  on  my  shoulders  as  well  as  the  honor- 
able gentleman,  and  I  would  ask  him  whether 
the  railway,  which  is  made  part  of  the  Con- 
stitution, is  considered  part  of  the  works  he 
alludes  to  or  not  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  ROSE— I  do  not  think  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  is  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion, but  its  construction  is  provided  for,  and 
a  railway  from  such  point  as  shall  be  con- 
sidered on  the  whole  best,  both  in  reference 
to  commercial  considerations  and  military  con- 
siderations, is  indispensable;  and  what  is 
more,  I  believe  the  country  will  cheerfully 
bear   the    expense.     (Hear,   hear.)     But  in 


regard  to  the  question  of  an  appeal  to  the 
people,  I  would  just  ask,  is  there  a  single 
member  of  this  House  who  does  not  already 
know  what  is  the  feeling  of  his  constituents 
on  this  question,  who  is  not  aware  whether 
they  are  for  the  union  or  against  the  union  ? 
Is  there  a  member  who  does  not  kn  ow  what 
his  constituents  desire  in  respect  to  it,  and 
who  is  not  himself  prepared  to  take  the  re- 
sponsibility of  his  vote  ?  I  believe  there  is 
not.  And  does  any  honorable  gentleman 
think  that  if  there  was  to  be  a  dissolution  and 
an  appeal  to  the  country  on  this  question,  the 
elections  would  turn  upon  the  scheme  itself, 
that  there  would  not  be  individual  predilec- 
tions, personal  questions,  and  local  questions 
affecting  the  elections,  far  more  than  Confed- 
eration ?  And  would  it  not  be  most  anomalous 
to  elect  a  Parliament,  the  first  vote  given  by 
which  would  be  its  own  death  ?  The  sole 
business  of  the  new  Parliament  would  be  to 
agree  upon  a  Constitution  which  should 
annihilate  itself.  There  is  something  so 
anomalous,  almost  unconstitutional  and  absurd 
in  such  a  step,  that  I  think  it  could  not  com- 
mend itself  to  the  common  sense  of  the 
country.  I  think  we  are  already  sufficiently 
aware  of  what  the  feeling — the  mature  and 
dispassionate  feeling — the  calm  conviction 
and  views  of  the  country  are,  and  that  too 
after  an  intelligent  appreciation  of  it  in  all  its 
bearings,  and  I  do  not  think  there  is  anything 
to  be  gained,  but  on  the  contrary  much  to  be 
imperilled,  by  the  expense  and  delay  of  an 
election.  I  know  that  in  my  own  constituency 
— not  the  least  important  in  the  province — this 
conclusion  has  been  come  to,  not  from  any  in- 
considerate love  of  change — not  from  any 
ardent  and  temporai*y  impulse  or  vague  aspir- 
ations to  be  part  in  name  of  a  future  nation, 
at  the  risk  of  imperilling  their  relations  with 
England  or  of  injury  to  their  interests,  but  I 
believe  the  scheme  is  stamped  with  their  ap- 
proval, because  their  rea.son  and  judgment 
convince  them  that  it  is  not  only  desirable  but 
a  necessity  of  our  condition.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  again  apologise  for  the  time  I  have  occupied 
the  attention  of  the  House,  and  express  my 
thanks  for  the  kind  consideration  honorable 
members  have  extended  to  me.  (Loud  cheers.) 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE  moved  the  ad- 
journment of  the  debate. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  would  like  to  say 
a  word,  and  only  a  word,  before  the  motion 
to  adjourn  the  debate  is  put.  I  have  listened 
with  very  great  attention  to  the  speech  of  my 
honorable  friend  from  Montreal  Centre,  a 
large  portion  of  which  was  devoted  to  the 


420 


subject  of  the  defences  of  the  country.  I  ad- 
mit to  the  full  the  importance  of  that  subject, 
but  I  maintain  that  as  yet  we  are  not  in  a 
position  to  give  the  proper  weight  to  the  ar- 
guments of  my  honorable  friend  and  of  other 
honorable  gentlemen  on  that  question,  that 
in  fact  we  are  hardly  in  a  position  to  consider 
the  subject  at  all;  and  I  do  maintain  that  it 
is  hardly  fair  to  introduce  it  as  an  element 
into  this  discussion,  so  long  as  the  Government 
withhold  from  us  the  official  information 
which  may  be  assumed  to  be  iu  their  posses- 
sion on  that  subject.  I  have  risen,  therefore, 
to  express  the  hope  that  the  honorable  gentle- 
men on  the  Treasury  benches  will  see  the 
propriety  of  submitting  to  this  House  the 
fullest  possible  inlbrmation  on  that  subject. 
(Hear, hear.)  I  am  sure  my  honorable  friend 
who  has  just  taken  his  seat  will  himself  admit 
the  force  of  what  I  am  now  urging,  and  that 
wo  cannot  give  the  consideration  he  asks  to 
that  branch  of  the  general  subject  of  Confed- 
eration without  having  the  amplest  inform- 
ation that  the  Government  can  give  us  with 
regard  to  it.  I  would,  therefore,  express  the 
desire — which  I  am  sure  is  shared  by  a  large 
number  of  the  honorable  members  who  sit 
around  me — that  at  once,  before  we  pixiceed 
further  iu  this  debate,  this  important  inform- 
ation should  be  submitted  to  the  House  in  a 
distinct  fonu.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACl)Ox\ALD— My  honor- 
rable  friend  from  Chateauguay  (Hon.  Mr. 
HoLTONj  has  very  properly  called  the  atten- 
tion of  the  Government  to  the  necessity  of 
having  laid  before  this  House  information  as 
to  the  amount  we  shall  have  to  appropriate 
for  the  defences  of  the  country.  It  is  well 
known  that  Imperial  officers  were  sent  out 
some  time  ago  to  make  a  survey,  and  report 
on  the  defensive  condition  of  this  country, 
and  the  best  points  at  which  to  build  fortili- 
catious — the  j^oints  d'apj/ui,  where  in  cases  of 
disaster  we  should  be  obliged  to  take  shelter, 
if  the  enemy  drove  us  into  our  garrisons.  The 
report  of  those  officers  was  made  belbre  I  left 
office,  more  than  a  year  ago.  Surely  during 
that  time,  with  such  a  luyal  administration  as 
that  composed  of  the  lionorablo  gentlemen 
now  on  the  Treasury  benches,  the  secret  of 
the  amount  of  the  aj)propriati<)n  that  will  bo 
required  at  uur  hands  has  not  bft-.n  kept  froui 
them.  (^Hear,  hear.)  It  »p|K:ai-s  tx)  me  that 
this  is  a  branch  ol'  the  (juchtidii  to  which  we 
muht  address  ourselves,  before  we  are  in  a 
condition  to  deal  satistactorily  with  the  gen- 
eral subject.  It  is  a  principle  of  the  British 
Constitution   that   the   appropriation    of  any 


moneys  from  the  taxes  paid  by  the  people, 
shall  be  at  the  disposal  of  Parliament.  We 
have  a  right  therefore  to  know,  at  the  earliest 
possible  period,  before  we  go  blindly  into  this 
scheme  of  Confederation,  what  we  are  called 
upon  to  appropriate  in  connection  with  this 
iftatter.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  there  is  another 
point  on  which,  as  yot,  we  have  had  no  infor- 
mation, beyond  what  was  given  to-night  when 
the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford  answered 
me  in  his  curt  way.  The  Government  may  as 
well  at  an  early  date — I  mean  the  portion  of 
the  Government  who  will  have  to  speak  lor 
Upper  Canada,  and  who  are  especially  respon- 
sible for  the  acts  of  the  Administration  with 
reference  to  that  section  of  the  province — 
give  their  attention  to  the  question  how  far 
the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada  are  to  be 
placed  in  the  position  of  maintaining  their 
schools  and  claiming  their  portion  of  the 
public  funds,  and  enjoying  generally  the 
same  privileges  which  are  to  be  enjoyed,  ac- 
cording to  the  declaration  of  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  East,  by  the  Protestants  of 
Lower  Canada.  I  express  no  opinion  at  this 
time  as  to  the  propriety  of  the  demands  made 
by  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada,  or  as  to 
what  I  shall  be  prepared  to  do  when  that  ques- 
tion comes  up.  Nor  do  I  express  now  any 
opinion  as  to  the  propriety  of  giving  the  Ca- 
tholics of  Upper  Canada  more  rights  than 
they  have  got.  But  I  say  the  Government 
ought  to  address  themselves  at  once  to  the 
question,  whether  they  are  U)  make  the  same 
provision  for  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada, 
as  for  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada.  This 
is  a  matter  which  comes  home  to  the  feelings 
of  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada,  and  they 
have  here  at  this  moment  delegates  to  express 
their  opinions.  No  doubt,  to  enforce  what 
they  conceive  to  be  their  own  rights,  they 
will  use  as  a  lever  the  proposition  to  extend 
to  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada  the  priv- 
ileges which  they  claim  as  their  due.  And 
depend  upon  it,  that  when  the  time  comes  lor 
the  Protestants  of  Ijower  Canada  to  ask  what 
they  assert  to  be  their  rights,  they  will  be  cx- 
j)ected  to  stand  up  also  lor  the  Catholics  of 
Upper  Canada,  and  to  dcid  out  to  them  the 
same  justice  which  they  expect  the  Catholics 
of  Lower  Canada  to  extend  to  thorn. 

Hon.  Mr.  BKOU  N— My  honorable  friend 
from  Cornwall  does  not  ol"  course  agree  him- 
self with  the  views  ho  is  now  urging.  1  think 
he  ought  to  wait  till  the  parties  he  speaks  for 
ask  iiim  to  express  their  views,  or  allow  thorn 
to  get  as  their  advocate  one  who  does  share 
t  heir  views.     Ho  surely  does  not  want  to  urge 


421 


views  upon  us  in  which  he  does  not  sympathize 
himself. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Ismy  honor- 
able friend  ignorant  of  the  resolutions  which 
have  been  passed  by  the  Catholics  of  Upper 
Canada  ?  Is  he  ignorant  that  Vicar-General 
McDonnell  of  Kingston  is  here  at  the 
Palace,  to  give  effect  to  them  ?  And  does  he 
say  that  whatever  opinions  I  may  entertain  on 
the  question,  I  must  not  presume  to  ask  the 
Government  to  state  their  intentions  with 
regard  to  it  ?  Their  answer  should  not  be 
delayed  on  the  plea  set  up  to-night  by  the 
President  of  the  Council  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown), 
that  they  are  to  consider  the  matter.  It  is  a 
matter  worthy  of  consideration,  and  I  press  it 
on  the  attention  of  the  Government  in  order 
that  they  may  be  prepared,  for  it  must  come. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— What  must  come  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— The  question 
must  be  brought  up  in  this  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Well,  bring  it. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  want  the 
gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches,  when 
the  question  is  brought  up  and  put  to  them, 
to  be  prepared  to  say  what  they  are  to  do  with 
reference  to  the  Catholic  minority  of  Upper 
Canada,  as  the  Attorney  General  East  has 
manfully  stated  what  he  will  do  for  the  Pro- 
testant minority  of  Lower  Canada.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  have  never  come  to  this  House  to 
act  as  the  champion  of  any  religious  sect.  I 
have  come  to  do  justice  to  all  parties,  and  I 
claim  that  we  are  entitled  to  understand,  when 
it  is  intended  to  make  distinctions  for  the 
benefit  of  the  minority  in  one  section  of  the 
province,  whether  similar  distinctions  are  to 
be  made  also  for  the  benefit  of  the  minority 
in  the  other  section.     (Hear,  hear.j 

The  motion  for  adjourning  the  debate  was 
then  agreed  to. 


LEGISLATIVE    COUNCIL. 


Thursday,  Fclruary  23,  1865. 

The  SPEAKIEE.  reported  that  the  House 
had  that  day  waited  on  His  Excellency  the 
Governor  General,  with  their  Address  to  Her 
Majesty  the  Queen,  on  the  subject  of  uniting 
the  colonies  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island  in  one  government,  with  provi- 
sions based   on   the  resolutions  which   were 


adopted  at  a  Conference  of  delegates  from  the 
said  colonies,  held  at  the  City  of  Quebec,  on 
the  10th  of  October,  1864 ;  and  also,  the  Ad- 
dress to  His  Excellency  the  Governor  Gen- 
eral, requesting  him  to  transmit  the  same  to 
the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonies,  in 
order  that  the  said  Address  to  Her  Majesty 
may  be  laid  at  the  foot  of  the  Throne, — and 
that  His  Excellency  was  pleased  to  return  the 
following  gracious  reply  : — 

"  Mr.  Speaker  and  Honorable  Gen- 
tlemen : — I  shall  have  much  satisfaction  in 
transmitting  your  Address  to  the  Secretary  of 
State  for  the  Colonies,  in  order  that  it  may 
be,  by  him,  laid  before  Her  Majesty  the 
Queen." 


LEGISLATIVE     ASSEMBLY. 


Thursday,  February  23,  1865. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE  resumed  the  ad- 
journed debate.  He  said  —  Before  proceed- 
ing, Mr.  Speaker,  to  discuss  the  measure  of 
Confederation  itself,  I  think  it  desirable  to 
revert  for  a  moment  to  the  position  which 
we  have  occupied,  iu  discussing  those  con- 
stitutional questions  that  have  so  long  separ- 
ated parties,  and  involved  the  two  sections 
of  the  province  iu  serious  dissensions.  I  do 
this  to  meet  the  charges  ot  inconsistency 
bi  ought  against  mysell  and  others,  because 
we  support  the  present  Coalition  Government 
with  a  view  to  obtain  the  solution  of  the 
difficulties  with  which  we  have  had  to 
contend — in  a  way  not  perhaps  hitherto 
advocated  very  extensively,  especially  in  that 
part  of  the  province  to  which  I  myself 
belong.  Since  I  had  the  honor  of  having  a 
seat  in  this  House,  I  have  never  advocated 
representation  by  population  as  the  sole 
measure  I  would  accept  as  a  settlement  of 
those  difficulties.  In  the  first  speech  I  ever 
made  in  this  House,  I  used  the  following 
language : — 

I  am  not  myself  bound  down  to  representation 
by  population  as  the  only  possible  measure,  if 
the  oppoHeuts  of  that  measure  can  suggest  any 
other  remedy,  I  am  quite  willing  to  give  it  a  can- 
did consideration ;  and  I  am  quite  sure  that  the 
large  constituency  I  represent  will  support  me  iu 
considering  any  measure  which  will  place  it  out  o^ 
the  power  of  the  Government  .of  the  day  to  per- 
petrate sectional  injustice ;  but  until  s^ich  a 
remedy  is  suggested,  I  feel  bound  to  advocate 


4-22 


reform  of  the  representation  on  the  basis  of  popu- 
lation as  one  remedy  I  believe  to  be  an  eflFective 
one. 

(Hear,  hear.)  The  hon.  member  for  Hoche- 
laga  (Hoi.  Mr.  Dorion)  asserted  that  we 
had  advocated  this  measure  merely  as  a 
means  of  remedying  the  financial  injustice 
of  which  we  complained.  That  was  not  the 
case.  It  is  quite  true  that  we  urj^ed  very 
strongly — and  I  am  not  prepared  at  this 
moment  to  withdraw  a  single  statement  I 
have  made  with  reference  to  that — wo  urged 
very  strongly  the  injustice  of  the  josition 
in  which  we  were  placed,  in  contributing 
largely  to  the  public  revenue,  and  finding 
that  that  revenue  was  expended  without  due 
consideration  being  given  to  that  part  of  the 
country  which  contributed  most  heavily 
towards  it.  But,  at  the  same  time,  we  fdt 
that  we  were  treated  unjustly  in  another 
respect.  We  felt  that  it  was  not  fair — that 
it  could  not  be  just — that  iour  men  in  Lower 
Canada  should  be  equal,  politically,  to  five 
meD  in  Upper  Canada.  We  complained 
that  our  laws  were  framed  by  an  eastern 
majority,  in  spite  of  our  protestations.  It 
was  this  which  aggrieved  us  much  more 
deeply  than  the  mere  loss  of  a  certain  sum 
of  money.  (Hear,  hear.)  Up  to  the 
beginning  of  1862  the  agitation  for  a  redress 
of  this  grievance  had  been  carried  on 
throughout  the  whole  of  Western  Canada ; 
and  I  am  convinced  that  at  that  time  there 
was  not  an  individual  who  could  appear  in 
public  in  Canada  West,  and  take  any  share 
in  the  public  discussions  of  the  day,  with 
any  chance  of  getting  a  favorable  hearing, 
unless  he  asserted  that  he  was  in  favor  ot 
representation  by  population. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MAODONALD— Oh  !  oh! 

Ma.  A.  MACKENZIE— The  hon.  member 
for  Cornwall  cries  ''Oh!"  Well,  I  will 
except  him. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— No  !  no  ! 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— It  is  true,  per- 
haps, that  even  that  hon.  member  cannot  be 
excepted  ;  for  no  uue  spoke  more  strongly 
than  he  did  of  the  inju.'itice  perpetrated  on 
Upper  Canada. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Hear,  hear. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZII']— He  went  even 
further  in  his  assertion  of  the  rights  of 
Upper  Canada,  and  of  tlie  justice  duo  tu  it, 
than  I  would  be  disposed  to  do.  Ho  a.saertcd 
OQ  t.he  floor  of  tliis  House  that  he  would  not 
•ubmk  to  any  legislation,  good,  bad  or  indif- 
fer«nt,tlmt  came  from  tho  Administration  of 


the   day,   simply   because   they  would    not 
accord  justice  to  Upper  Catiada. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Any  Upper 
Caijada  legislation. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— The  hon.  gentle- 
man could  not  have  taken  stronger  ground 
than  that.  I  shall  come  to  speak  presently  of 
his  own  Administration.  The  hon.  member 
for  Hochelaga  seemed  to  think  that,  because 
the  people  of  Canada  West  conducted  their 
agitation  with  a  good  deal  of  system  and 
order,  there  was  nothing  very  alarming  or 
dangerous  about  it.  But  the  hon.  gentleman 
should  have  remembered  that  it  is  a  character- 
istic of  the  British  people,  that  they  on  all 
occasions  conduct  a  political  agitation  with 
due  decorum  and  due  respect  to  the  laws, 
and  that  it  is  cot  the  less  serious  on  that 
account.  When  they  have  a  deep-seated 
feeling  that  injustice  is  being  perpetrated 
upon  them,  they  will  not  sit  still  under  it, 
although  they  will  at  the  same  time,  while 
conducting  the  agitation  against  it,  respect 
the  rights  Si'  other  parties.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  free  to  confess  that,  when  1  first  came 
into  this  House,  I  labored  under  some  slight 
misapprehension  of  the  po.sition  which  the 
Lower  Canadians  occupied  towards  us  of 
Western  Canada.  Thero  is,  or  there  was 
then,  a  popular  opinion  that  the  Lower  Ca- 
nadians were  only  afra  d  of  representation  by 
population,  because  they  dreaded  that  the 
people  of  Canada  West  would  use  the  larger 
power  they  would  thereby  obtain  for  the  inju- 
ry, if  not  the  destruction,  of  their  religious 
institutions.  That  is  entirely  an  error.  I  am 
convinced  that  the  people  of  Lower  Canada 
have  no  such  opinion  and  no  such  fear.  lu 
speaking  the  other  day  on  that  subject,  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr. 
Dorion)  quoted  fiom  a  speech  of  mine  deliv- 
ered in  Toronto  a  few  days  before  this  sesssion 
commenced  ;  and  I  do  not  think  the  hon. 
gentleman  shewed  his  usual  candor  or  fair- 
ness in  making  the  representation  he  did. 
He  represented  me  as  having  stated  at  that 
meeting,  that  I  had  abandoned  representa- 
tion by  population,  as  a  thing  that  wjis  not 
advisable,  or  possible,  or  something  of  that 
bort.     Now  what  I  did  say  was  this  : — 

Having  taken  some  part  iu  public  atiairs,  ho 
(Mr.  MACKi):Nziii:)  hud  lon>^  felt  il  would  be 
almos:  impossible,  by  rcpresentntiou  by  popula- 
tion, to  obtain  to  the  lull  exteut  the  justice  that 
(jpp<^r  Canada  should  receive  with  a  legislaliv* 
union  as  the  basis  of  our  power. 

Hon.  Ma.  BKOWN— H*jar,  hear! 


423 


Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE—    • 

He  had  looked  at  it  in  this  way.  The  time 
had  been  when  the  people  of  Upper  Canada 
imagined  that  the  Lower  Canadians  were  afraid 
to  grant  representation  by  population  lest  western 
reformers  should  interfere  with  their  religious 
institutions.  He  was  fully  satisfied  that  that  idea 
was  entirely  erroneous — that  the  French  people 
never  had  the  slightest  fear  of  the  kind,  because 
they  knew  it  would  be  political  suicide,  it  would 
be  absolute  ruin  to  any  political  party  having  the 
administration  of  affairs  in  their  hands,  to  perpe- 
trate injustice  on  any  section  of  the  people,  to 
whatever  church  they  belonged.  (Cheers.) 
There  was  one  element,  however,  which  always 
entered  largely  into  the  discussion  of  all  our  na- 
tional questions,  and  that  was  that  the  French 
people  were  a  people  entirely  different  from  our- 
selves in  origin,  and  largely  in  feeling.  "We  all 
had  a  certain  pride  in  our  native  country,  and 
gloried  in  the  deeds  of  our  ancestors.  The  French 
people  had  that  feeling  quite  as  strongly  as  any 
of  us  ;  this  reason,  and  also  because  they  were  a 
conquered  people,  they  felt  it  necessary  to  main- 
tain a  strong  national  spirit,  and  to  resist  all  at- 
tempts to  procure  justice  by  the  people  of  the 
west,  lest  that  national  existence  should  be  broken 
down.  He  (Mr.  Mackexzie)  felt  for  one  that 
mere  representation  by  population,  under  such 
circumstances,  would  perhaps  scarcely  meet  the 
expectations  formed  of  it,  because  although  Up- 
per Canada  would  have  seventeen  more  members 
than  Lower  Canada,  it  would  be  an  easy  thing 
for  the  fifty  or  fifty-five  members  representing 
French  constituencies  to  unite  wjth  a  minority 
from  Upper  Canada,  and  thus  secure  an  Admin- 
istration subservient  to  their  views. 

These  were  the  sentiments  that  I  uttered 
at  that  meeting,  and  the  sentiments  to 
which  I  am  prepared  now  to  give  utter- 
rance  again.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  believe  that  that 
feeling  of  nationality  has  been  our  sole  difficul- 
ty, in  working  our  present  political  system. 
But  I  do  not  believe  for  one  moment  that  it 
would  be  possible  or  perhaps  desirable  to 
extinguish  that  strong  feeling  of  nationality. 
Break  down  that  feeling  and  all  patriotism 
will  be  broken  down  with  it.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  do  not  think  it  would  be  fair,  or  kind,  or 
honorable,  to  attempt  to  do  so  When 
Britain  conquered  the  country,  she  accepted 
the  responsibility  of  governing  a  foreign 
people  in  accordance  with  their  feelings,  so 
far  as  consistent  with  British  policy.  That 
feeling  of  nationality  obtains  so  strongly  in 
all  countries,  that,  where  attempts  have  been 
made,  as  in  Austria,  to  break  it  down,  they 
have  signally  failed.  When  such  an  attempt 
failed,  though  made  by  a  despotic  government, 
with  a  powerful  army  at  its  command,  how 
Qould  we  expect  it  to  succeed  in  a  free  coun- 


try. In  Austria,  at  this  moment,  eighteen 
diflferent  nationalities  are  represented  in 
the  national  councils  ;  and,  notwithstanding 
all  its  military  power  and  prestige,  Austria 
has  been  compelled  to  accord  local  parlia- 
ments or  assemblies  to  every  one  of  those 
eighteen  natioualities.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
have  felt,  therefore,  that  it  would  be  utterly 
impracticable  to  obtain  representation  by 
population  so  long  as  the  French  people  be- 
lieved, as  I  came  to  find  they  did  believe, 
that  this  concession  to  us  would  involve 
destruction  to  them  as  a  separate  people. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— That  is  what  they 
fear  will  be  the  result  of  the  scheme  now 
proposed. 

Mr.  a  MACKENZIE  -No;  I  have  yet  to 
learn  that  they  have  any  such  fear.  The 
Attoney  General  East  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartier), 
in  his  speech,  a  few  evenings  ago,  adverted 
to  the  position  taken  by  the  French  inhabi- 
tants of  Lower  Canada  at  the  time  of  the 
French  revolution,  and  claimed  credit  for 
them,  because  they  remained  loyal  to  the 
British  Crown,  when  all  the  other  North 
American  Colonies  threw  oflF  the  British 
sway.  The  honorable  gentleman's  claim 
was  perfectly  just.  But  I  believe  that  they 
were  actuated  by  another  feeling  beyond  the 
feeling  of  loyalty — that  they  felt  their  only 
safeguard  as  a  distinct  people— the  only 
way  to  preserve  their  nationality,  was  to 
remain  attached  to  (rreat  Britain.  Their 
existence  for  twenty  years  as  a  French  colony 
under  British  rule,  was  not  perhaps  sufficient 
to  give  that  attachment  which  they  have 
now  to  the  British  Government.  But  it 
was  perfectly  clear  to  them  that,  if  they 
entered  the  American  Union,  they  would  be 
absorbed  and  lost,  jjist  as  the  French  colony 
of  Louisiana  has  since  been.  (He.ir,  hear.) 
I  have  been  charged,  and  others  with  me, 
who  have  held  the  same  political  views,  with 
deserting  our  party,  because  we  have  ceased 
to  act  with  the  gentlemen  from  Lower  Can- 
ada with  whom  we  formerly  acted.  I  think 
there  is  no  fair  ground  for  such  a  charge. 
For  what,  after  all,  is  party  ?  It  is  but  an 
association  of  individuals  holding  opinions 
in  common  on  some  grounds  of  public  policy, 
or  some  measures  which  they  may  believe 
to  be  necessary  for  the  conduct  of  the 
government  of  the  country  to  which  they 
belong.  Looking  at  the  matter  in  that  light, 
there  is  no  part  ol  our  party  politics  in  the 
west,  that  wc  have  insisted  upon  so  strongly 
as  that  which  concerns  the  representation  of 
the  people  in  Parliament. 


424 


Hon.  Ma.  BKOWN— Hear,  hear  ! 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— And,  as  soon  as 
our  former  political  friends  in  Lower  Canada 
ceased  to  take  advanced  ground  on  that  ques- 
tion, while  the  other  party,  hitherto  opposed 
to  us,  became  willing  to  take  that  advanced 
gnund,  it  becjime  clearly  our  duty  to  unite 
wiili  that  party  who  held  opinions  in  com- 
ihOD  with  us  on  matters  that  coneerned  us 
above  all  others.  (Hear,  hear.)  At  the 
time  of  the  formation  of  the  Macdonald- 
SlCOTTE  Government,  I  was,  with  many 
others,  strongly  blamed,  because  we  allowed 
that  Government  to  come  into  existence  at 
all.  It  is  quite  possible  we  were  wrong;  but 
I  think  after  all  it  was  fortunate  that  the 
hon.  member  for  Cornwall  (Hon.  J,  S. 
Macdonald)  had  a  fair  opportunity  to  try 
his  favorite  remedy  for  our  constitutional 
diflSculties — the  "  double  majority  principle." 
That  principle  had  been  pressed  on  the 
attention  of  the  country  for  ten  years  as  one 
amply  sufficient  as  a  remedial  measure, 
under  which  the  existing  political  system 
could  be  harmoniously  worked.  In  the 
Macdonald-Sicotte  Government  it  had  a 
fair  trial  and  a  speedy  death.  (Hear,  hear, 
and  laughter.)  The  existence  of  that 
Government,  if  it  served  no  other  purpose, 
showed  the  utter  impracticability  of  the 
one  means,  by  which  my  hon.  friend 
hoped  to  accomplish  what  he,  in  com- 
mon with  ourselves,  had  long  aime  .  at. 
(Hear,  hear.  Now,  supposing  the  Lib- 
eral party  of  the  west  had  refused 
the  terms  offered  by  the  present  Ad- 
ministration— if  we  had  declined  to  sup- 
port a  government  which  was  really 
giving  us  nearly  all  we  demanded — I  do 
think  we  would  have  been  fairly  chargeable 
with  creating  if  not  advocating  a  state  of 
anarchy.  I  think  it  would  have  been  a  most 
suicidal  thing,  il,  having  obtained — if  not  to 
the  full  extent,  yet  to  a  very  greijt  extent — 
the  concession  of  the  principle  we  had  con- 
tended for  80  long,  we  had  refused  to  accept 
the  settlement  offered,  merely  because  a  cer- 
tain number  of  gentlemen,  to  whom  we  had 
been  htrongly  opposed  before,  were  among  the 
leaders  of  the  new  movement.  1  lor  one  felt 
it  would  bo  quitii  impossible  for  me  to  main- 
tain njy  ground  in  Canada  West,  if  1  took 
the  reaponsibility  ol  acting  in  that  way. 
Some  horioral)li,'  gentlemen  )iave  asserted, 
and  truly  aHsertod,  that  tliis  mea.sure  is  not 
as  pfcifect  a.s  it  migiithuvc  heen — and^that  it 
is  not  as  complete  as  some  of  us  might  liuve 
desired  it  to  be.     It  iu  not  perhaps,  consider- 


ing everything,  in  the  exact  form  in  which 
we  demanded  it.  But,  where  there  are  two 
great  parties  in  a  nation — as  there  have  been 
with  us — it  is  quite  clear  that,  whej.  they 
agree  to  effect  a  settlement  of  the  constitu- 
tional difficulties  which  have  separated  them, 
this  can  only  be  accomplished  by  mutual 
compromise  to  a  greater  or  less  extent  And 
the  true  question  to  be  determined  in  this 
discussion,  and  by  the  vote  at  the  close  of 
this  debate,  is  this — whether  this  a  fair  com- 
promise or  not.  I  am  prepared  to  say  it  is 
perhaps  as  fair  as  could  reasonably  be  ex- 
pected, and  I  have  therefore  no  hesitation  in 
giving  it  all  the  support  in  my  power.  (Hear, 
hear.)  In  its  main  features  it  is  the  very 
scheme  which  wa.<5  proposed  by  the  Toronto 
Convention — only  carried  to  a  greater  extent 
than  the  convention  thought  advisable  or 
possible  at  the  time.  The  speeches  which 
were  delivered  at  that  convention,  as  well 
as  the  resolutions  which  were  passed,  shewed 
clearly  that  it  was  the  opinion  of  the  dele- 
gates there  present,  that  a  Confederation  of 
the  whole  provinces  would  be  desirable,  it 
it  were  possible  to  attain  it  as  speedily,  as 
they  expected  they  could  obtain  a  Feder- 
ation of  the  two  Provinces  of  Canada. 
That,  I  believe,  was  the  sole  reason 
why  resolutions  were  not  moved  and  adopt- 
ed in  favor  of  the  larger  instead  of  the 
smaller  scheme.  But  we  have  been  told  by 
the  two  hon  gentlemen  beside  me — the  hen. 
member  for  Chuteauguay(Hon.  Mr.  Holton) 
and  the  honorable  member  for  Hocbelaga 
(Hon.  Mr.  Doiiion) — that  the  scheme  of  the 
Toronto  Convention  took  no  hold  upon  the 
public  mind.  As  to  this  I  have  to  say  that 
having  had  as  fair  an  opportunity  perhnps  as 
most  men  to  ascertain  the  feelings  of  the 
people  in  Western  Canada,  I  cau  assert, 
without  any  fear  of  contradiction  by  hon. 
gentlemen  from  that  part  of  the  country, 
that  no  scheme  ever  took  a  greater  or  more 
complete  hold  upon  the  public  mind  in 
Upper  Canada  than  the  .scheme  of  the 
Toronto  Convention.  (Hour,  bear.)  And 
for  the  very  reason  that  the  present  scheme 
is  merely  an  expausiou  of  that  one,  it  has 
received  almost  universal  approval  in  Canada 
West.  (Hear,  hear. )  It  is  true  that  after 
the  Toronto  Convention  wa.^  held,  there  Wiia 
not  any  very  strong  agitation  in  its  favor. 
But  t  have  observed  this,  that  at  all  the  eloo- 
tion.s  which  have  been  held  subsequent  to  the 
eoiivontiun,  gentlemen  who  have  taken  the 
same  side  of  politics  as  myself  have  been 
aeoustomod  to  say  that  as  soon  as  the  Lower 


425 


Canadians  who  were  opposed  to  representa- 
tion by  population  would  agree  to  the  scheme 
of  the  Toronto  Convention,  they  were  ready 
to  meet  them  on  that  ground.  Personally,  I 
have  always  been  in  favor  of  a  legislative 
union,  where  it  can  be  advantageously  work- 
ed. If  it  could  be  adapted  to  our  circum- 
stances in  these  colonies,  I  would  at  this 
moment  be  in  favor  of  a  legislative  union 
as  the  best  system  of  government.  I  be- 
lieve that  is  the  general  opinion  of  the  people 
in  the  west.  But  it  is  the  duty  of  every 
public  man  to  shape  his  course  with  refer- 
ence to  theoretical  principles  of  government, 
according  to  the  circumstances  which  may 
prevail  locally.  And  it  is  quite  clea'r  that, 
if  the  legislative  union  could  not  be  worked 
well  with  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  it  would 
work  still  worse  with  the  other  provinces 
brought  in.  There  remained,  therefore,  in 
my  opinion,  no  other  alternative  than  to 
adopt  the  Federal  principle,  or  to  dissolve 
entirely  the  connection  which  exists  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  at  the  present 
moment ;  and  that  I  would  look  upon  as  one 
of  the  greatest  calamities  which  could  befall 
these  provinces.  Even  if  this  scheme  were 
more  objectionable  than  it  is,  had  I  the 
alternative  put  before  me  to  accept  dissolu- 
tion of  the  union  or  to  accept  this,  1  would 
without  hesitation  accept  Confederation 
rather  than  dissolution.  (Hear,  hear.)  In 
the  scheme  as  propounded,  we  have  all  that 
we  could  possibly  demand  in  the  way  of 
representation  in  the  Lower  House.  And, 
besides  that,  we  have  provision  made  for  ex- 
tending the  representation  east  or  west,  as 
occasion  may  require,  according  to  the  in- 
crease of  cur  population  shown  at  the 
decennial  periods  for  taking  the  census. 
Any  thing  fairer  than  that  could  not  possibly 
he  demanded.  And  if  Lower  Canada 
increases  more  rapidly  in  population 
than  Canada  West,  she  will  obtain  re- 
presentation accordingly.  For,  although 
the  number  of  her  members  can  not  be 
changed  from  sixty-five,  the  proportion  of 
that  number  to  the  whole  will  be  changed 
relatively  to  the  progress  of  the  various  colo- 
nies. On  the  other  hand  if  we  extend,  as  I 
have  no  doubt  we  will  do,  westward,  towards 
the  centre  of  the  continent,  we  will  obtain  a 
large  population  for  our  Confederation  in  the 
west.  In  that  quarter  we  must  look  for 
the  largest  increase  of  our  population  in 
British  America,  and  before  many  years  elapse 
the  centre  of  population  and  power  will  tend 
Westward  much  farther  tbaa  most  people 
55 


now  think.  The  increase  in  the  represen- 
tation is  therefore  almost  certain  to  bo  chiefly 
in  the  west,  and  every  year  will  add  to  the 
influence  and  power  of  Western  Canada,  as 
well  as  to  her  trade  and  commerce.  The 
most  important  question  that  arises  relates 
to  the  constitution  of  the  Upper  House.  It 
is  said  that  in  this  particular  the  scheme  is 
singularly  defective — that  there  has  been  a 
retrograde  movement  in  going  back  from 
the  elective  to  the  nominative  system.  I 
admit  that  this  statement  is  a  fair  one  from 
those  who  contended  long  for  the  applica- 
tion of  the  elective  principle  to  the  Upper 
House ;  but  it  can  have  no  weight  with 
another  large  class,  who,  like  myself,  never 
believed  in  the  wisdom  of  electing  the 
members  of  two  Houses  of  Parliament  with 
coordinate  powers.  I  have  always  believed 
that  a  change  fiom  the  present  system  was 
inevitable,  even  with  our  present  political 
organization.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  constitu- 
tion of  an  Upper  House  or  Senate  seems  to 
have  originated  in  the  state  of  society  which 
prevailed  in  feudal  times ;  and  from  being 
the  sole  legislative  body — or  at  least  the  most 
powerful— in  the  State,  it  has  imperceptibly 
become  less  powerful,  or  secondary  in  impor- 
tance to  the  lower  chamber,  as  the  mass  of 
the  people  became  more  intelligent,  and 
popular  rights  became  more  fully  understood. 
Where  there  is  an  Upper  House  it  manifestly 
implies  on  the  part  of  its  members  peculiar 
duties  or  peculiar  rights.  In  Great  Britain,^ 
for  instance,  there  is  a  large  class  of  lauded 
proprietors,  who  have  long  held  almost  all 
the  landed  property  of  the  country  in  their 
hands,  and  who  have  to  pay  an  immense 
amount  of  taxes.  The  fiscal  legislation  of 
Britain  for  many  years  has  tended  to  the 
reduction  of  impost  and  excise  duties  on 
articles  of  prime  necessity,  and  to  the  impo- 
sition of  heavy  taxes  on  landed  property  and 
incomes.  Under  such  a  financial  system, 
there  are  immense  interests  at  stake,  and  the 
House  of  Lords  being  the  highest  judicial 
tribunal  in  the  kingdom,  there  is  a  combi- 
nation of  peculiar  rights  and  peculiar  duties 
appertaining  to  the  class  represented  which 
amply  justify  its  maintenance.  We  have  no 
such  interests,  and  we  impose  no  such  duties, 
and  hence  the  Upper  House  becomes  a  mere 
court  of  revision,  or  one  of  co6rdinate  juris- 
diction ;  as  the  latter  it  is  not  required  ;  to 
become  the  former,  it  should  be  constituted 
differently  from  the  House  of  Assembly. 
The  United  States  present^  the  example  of 
a  oommunity  socially  gtmiiar  to  ourselves, 


426 


establishing  an  Upper  House.  They  have — 
reasoning  doubtless  from  the  same  premises 
— not  only  given  the  legislatures  of  the 
respective  states  the  power  of  nominating 
the  members  of  the  Senate,  but  have  also 
given  that  body  powers  entirely  diflferent 
from  those  possessed  by  the  elective  branch. 
It  is  a  remarkable  fact  that  there  is  only  one 
other  government  in  Europe  which  has  a 
system  similar  to  Great  Britain,  and  that  is 
Swed'^n.  There  is  another  class,  represented 
by  a  number  of  the  German  nations.  There 
are  Wurtcmburg,  Hesse  Darmstadt,  Prussia, 
Saxony,  Hanover,  Baden  and  Bavaria,  with 
an  aggregate  population  of  about  30,0U0,000, 
whose  Upper  Chambers  are  partly  hereditary, 
partly  nominative,  and  partly  ex-o/^io.  The 
purely  hereditary  principle,  as  found  in 
Great  Britain  and  Sweden,  obtains  among  a 
population  of  some  32,000,000.  Then  there 
is  another  class  nominated  by  the  Crown  for 
life  from  a  list  chosen  by  intermediate 
bodies.  The  councils  choose  three  lists  and 
the  Sovereign  nominates  therefrom.  In  this 
way,  Spain,  Brazil  and  the  new  nation  of 
Roumania,  composed  of  the  Turkish  princi- 
palities of  Moldavia  and  Waliachia,  appoint 
their  Upper  Houses — Spain,  with  a  popula- 
tion of  16,301,850;  Brazil,  7,677,800  ;  llou- 
mania,  3,578,000;  alto.rether  27,556,650. 
There  is  another  class  where  the  members  of 
the  Senate  are  nominated  for  life,  where  the 
number  is  limited,  and  where  some  few 
members  of  the  royal  family  have  the  privi- 
lege of  sitting  as  members.  Italy,  with  a 
population  of  21,777,834;  Portugal,  3,58  t, 
677;  Servia,l,C9S,28 1;  Austria, 34,000,000. 
This  class  represents  altogether  a  population 
of  61,460,292.  Then  there  is  another  class 
where  the  members  are  elected  for  a  term  of 
years,  and  it  is  a  remarkable  fact  in  this  con- 
nection that  the  countries  1  refer  to  are,  with 
the  exception  of  three  British  colonies  and  one 
monarchy,  entirely  republican.  Tlie  one  mon- 
archy in  the  list  that  elects  its  Upper  Cham- 
ber in  this  way,  is  Belgium ;  but  Belgium, 
although  a  monarchy,  is  well  known  to  be 
one  of  the  most  democratic  countries  in  Eu- 
rope. This  list  iiiclud(!s  Switzerland,  whose 
people  number  2,534,242  La  Plata,  1,171,- 
800;  Chili,  1,558,319;  Poru,  2,865.000; 
United  States,  30,000,000;  J.iberia,  500.000  ; 
Belgium,  4,529,000  ;  South  Australia,  126,- 
830;  Tasmania,  89,077;  Victoria,  540,322 
— having  a  totiil  population  of  43,ill5490. 
In  Na.ssau  wo  find  the  Upper  Chauib  r  partly 
Dominativo  and  partly  cxojicio,  th  •  p  ipulc* 
tion  being  457,571.    Then  there  iB  Denmark, 


with  a  partly  nominative  and  partly  elec- 
tive system,  the  elections  being  held  by  the 
Provincial  Councils,  the  population  being 
1,600,000  ;  while  in  the  Netherlands,  with  a 
population  of  3.372,652,  the  members  are 
elected  entirely  by  the  Provincial  Councils. 
In  one  of  the  British  colonies.  New  South 
Wales,  the  members  are  nominated  for  a  term 
of  years ;  whilst  in  two  of  the  youngest  and 
most  enterprising  of  the  British  colonies, 
New  Zealand  and  Queensland,  they  have  tho 
system  which  we  propose  to  adopt,  of  nomina- 
ting a  limited  number  of  members  for  life. 
There  is  evidently  room  here  for  great 
latitude  of  opinion  as  to  the  constitution  of 
the  Upper  Chamber,  and  I  do  not  think  we 
can  be  fairly  charged  with  retrogression 
because  we  choose  to  make  the  members  of 
our  Upper  House  nominative  instead  of  elec- 
tive. Our  people  compri.sc  but  one  class,  and 
if  the  members  of  the  two  chambers  are  to  be 
chosen  by  the  same  electors,  it  is  very  clear 
that  it  will  be  extremely  difficult  for  both  to 
maintain  their  individuality,  possessing  simi- 
lar powers  and  privileges,  and  avoid  collisions. 
It  is  evident  that  two  chambers  which  have 
originated  in  precisely  the  same  way,  will 
claim  to  exercise  the  same  rights  and  privi- 
leges, and  to  discharge  the  same  i'unciioni ; 
but  were  the  Upper  Chamber  nominative, 
instead  of  elective,  the  jurisdiction  of  that 
chamber  would  be,  of  course,  correspondingly 
changed,  and  the  chances  of  coUibioa  made 
more  i-emote.  There  are  (juite  a  number  of 
states  (some  of  them  very  considerable  iu 
size  and  population,  and  of  recent  origin) 
which  have  dispensed  with  an  Upper  Cham- 
ber altogether.  I  confess  my  arguments  would 
lead  to  the  adoption  of  thi.'s  sy>tem,  as  the  one 
most  suited  to  our  circumstances.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  nations  which  have  adopted  tiiis 
system  are  Hesse  Cassel,  with  a  population  of 
726,000;  Luxemburg,  413,000;  S.ixe  Wei- 
mar, 273,000;  Saxe  Mciuingon,  172.000; 
Saxe  Altenburg,  137,000 ;  Sa.xo  Cubourg, 
159,000;  Brunswick,  273,000;  Mecklenburg 
Schwerin,  548,000  ;  Norway,  1,328,471  ; 
i^Iocklonburg  Streilitz,  99,060;  Oldonburg, 
295,245;  Anhalt,  181,824  ;  Lippe-Dctniold, 
108,513;  Waldeck,  58,000;  Schwarzburg, 
71,913  ;  and  iu  the  kingdom  of  Greece,  with 
a  population  uf  1,096,810,  where  a  new  con- 
stitution has  been  recently  adopted,  the  atitcw- 
mcn  of  that  country  hive,  after  some  experi- 
ence of  tho  duplicate  sy^leui,  resolved  to 
legislate  with  a  single  chamber.  But  whi.o 
it  is  my  opinion  that  we  would  bo  better  without 
an  Upper  House,  I  know  that  the  question  is 


427 


not,  at  the  present  moment,  what  in  the  best  I 
possible  form  of  government,  according  to  our  | 
particular  opinions,  but  what  is  the  best  that  j 
can  be  framed  for  a  community  holding  dif-  I 
ferent  views  on  the  subject.  I 

Hox.  Mr.  brown— Hear,  hear.     That  i 
is  the  point,  aud  therefore  I  accept,  as  a  fair 
coaipromise,  a  second  chamber  nominated  by 
the  Confederate  Cabinet. 

iVfR.  A.  MACKENZIE— One  honorable 
member — I  think  the  honorable  member  for 
Lotbini^re  (3Ir.  Jolt) — used  the  argument 
that  the  Federal  system  was  a  weak  one.  I 
do  not  think  the  Federal  system  is  necessarily 
a  weak  one  ;  but  it  is  a  system  which  requires 
a  large  degree  of  intelligence  and  political 
knowledge  on  the  part  of  the  people,  and  I 
think  it  was  entirely  unfair  on  the  part  of  the 
honorable  member  to  compare  our  probable 
prospects  in  the  future,  under  Confederation, 
with  the  past  history  of  the  Spanish  republics 
in  South  America.  We  have  in  this  country 
a  population  habituated  to  self-government, 
and  this  entirely  destroys  the  parallel  sought 
to  be  instituted.  For  my  part,  I  hold  it  would 
be  altogether  impossible  for  the  honorable 
member  for  South  Oxford,  for  instance,  or 
some  other  honorable  members  we  know  of,  to 
carry  on  the  same  agitation  in  any  of  the 
South  American  republics — (laughter) — that 
we  have  seen  them  doing  in  Upper  Canada, 
without  producing  a  complete  revolution,  and 
instead  of  my  honorable  friend  (Hon.  Mr. 
Brown)  finding  himself  at  the  head  of  a 
newspaper,  controlling  his  columns,  he  would 
find  himself  at  the  head  of  an  army  marshal- 
ling its  columns.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — He  would,  perhaps,  be 
found  issuing  a  pronunciamento.  (^Laughter. ) 
Mr.  a.  MAuKBNZIE — Yes,  ^pronuncia- 
mento would  undoubtedly  be  the  legitimate 
result  in  such  a  state  of  society.  The  fact  is, 
we  cannot  compare  such  a  population  with 
those  who  are  educated  to  our  own  form  of 
government.  I  have  time  and  again  attended 
political  meetings  with  my  honorable  friends 
opposite,  and  after  seven  or  eight  hours  in- 
dulging in  strong  language,  and  sometimes 
bitter  enough  speeches,  the  people  have  separ- 
ated quietly  without  any  personal  feeling 
being  entertained  the  one  against  the  other, 
fore,  then,  asserting  that  the  people  of  this 
country  are  incapable  of  governing  themselves, 
or  that  the  Federal  principle  is  a  weak  one,  it 
is  necessary  to  prove  that  we  are  not  more 
civilized  than  were  the  people  of  South 
America  thirty  years  ago.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
assume,    therefore,   that  it  is   necessary    to 


prove  that  our  people  are  less  civilized  than 
the  populations  of  the  South  American  re- 
publics were  thirty  yeaas  ago,  or  that  they 
have  already  shown  an  incapacity  for  govern- 
ing themselves  before  we  can  receive  the  as- 
sertion that  the  Federal  principle  as  proposed 
to  be  applied  in  our  case  is  a  weak  one.     If 
the  honorable   member  based    his  argument 
against  the  Confederation  on  the  question  of 
weakness  or  strength  as  exemplified  in  exist- 
ing governments,  he  would  be  bound  to  ac- 
cept Bussia  as  the  model  for  his  government, 
there  being  no  stronger  government  on   the 
face  of  the  earth.     But  a  despotism  is  only 
possible  where  the  people  are  ignorant,  and 
an  attempt  to  establish  a  republic  among  such 
a  people  would  be  out  of  the  question, — it 
would  only  produce  weakness.      Were  a  re- 
public  to   be  established  at  this  moment  in 
Russia,  it  would  occasion  a  state  of  anarchy, 
because  the  people  are  too  ignorant  to  exercise 
intelligently    the    franchise     bestowed    upon 
them.     It  is  for  this  reason  unfair  to  institute 
comparisons    between  these    unfortunate  re- 
publics and  the  proposed  government  for  the 
people    of    British  North  America.      I  am 
certain  that,  if  there  were  a  Federal  union  be- 
tween all  the  colonies  of  British  North  Ameri- 
ca, extending  even  across  the  continent  to  our 
western  confines,  although  great  inconvenience 
might  be  experienced  by  such  an  extension, 
we  would  find  a  law-abiding  people  capable  of 
self-government,   in   all  parts  of  the  Confed- 
eracy.  (Hear,   hear.)       The  example  of  the 
United  States  has  been  appealed  to,  and  it  is 
true  that  when   the  war  commenced,    when 
they  found  themselves  unable  to  enforce  their 
laws  in  some  portion  of  the  states,  that  it 
did  seem  to  prove  to  the  minds  of  those  who 
did  not  understand  the  people,   and   to   the 
writers  of  certain  newspapers  in  England,  that 
there  was  an  inherent  weakness  in  the  system. 
There  is  no  doubt  that  there  were  some  indi- 
cations of  such  weakness,  and  the  conflict  of 
sovereignty  between   states  and  the   Federal 
Government  did  produce  weakness.     But  I 
think  the  attitude  of  the  people  of  the  Nor- 
thern States  fully  shows  that  even  with  the 
imperfections  of  their  system,  which  will  be 
admitted,  and  which  imperfections  are  avoided 
in  the  scheme   now  before  the  House — even 
with  these  imperfections,  a  strength,  a  power, 
and  a  vigor  have  been  displayed,  which  have 
silenced  even  the  attacks  of  hostile  criticism. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  Federal  system,  then,cau- 
not  be  said  to  be  a  failure  with  our  race, 
neither  can  it  be  said  to  be  a  failure  in  Switz- 
l  erland.     This  was  admitted  in  a  measure  by 


428 


the  honorable  member  for  Lotbini^re,  but 
that  honorable  gentleman  gave  as  a  reason  for 
its  apparent  success,  that  Switzerland  was 
surrounded  by  a  number  of  powerful  nationp. 
I  think,  on  tlic  other  hand,  that  the  reason 
assigned  would  be  the  very  cause  of  a  failure 
of  the  system  in  Switzerland.  The  govern- 
ment of  that  country  would  have  broken  down 
long  ago  if  there  was  any  inherent  weakness 
in  the  iorm  of  the  constitution,  inconsequence 
of  the  hostile  systems  which  surrounded  it. 
The  fact  of  the  Swiss  maintaining  their  inde- 
pendence so  long  and  conducting  the  adminis 
tration  of  their  affairs  so  well  and  cheaply,  is 
aa  evidence  to  my  mind  that  the  Federal  sys- 
tem of  government  is  not  weak  where  the 
people  are  trained  and  educated  to  under- 
stand and  appreciate  the  benefits  of  self-gov- 
ernment. (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  sir,  we  are 
assured  that  all  sorts  of  calamities  will  over- 
take us  if  we  change  our  Constitution,  and 
many  of  the  honorable  gentlemen  who  pro- 
phecy these  evil  results  will  no  doubt,  like 
many  other  prophets,  do  all  they  can  to  bring 
their  predictions  to  pass.  (Hear,  hear.)  This 
is  not  the  first  time  in  the  history  of  the 
world  that  prophecies  of  this  kind  have  been 
indulged  in,  I  was  a  good  deal  amused  the 
other  night  in  reading  Ihe  discussions  which 
took  place  in  the  Scottish  Parliament  on  the 
occasion  of  the  proposed  union  with  England 
in  1707;  and  in  perusing  one  of  the  speeches 
in  particular,  1  could  not  help  remarking  the 
coincidence  betwen  the  tone  therein  assumed 
and  that  adopted  by  Her  Majesty's  loyal  Can- 
adian Opposition.  The  speaker.  Lord  Bel- 
haven,  used  this  language  in  depicting  the 
dire  calamities  which  he  imagined  would  be- 
fall Scotland  by  joining  her  fortunes  to  Eng- 
land:— 

Mt  Louii  CnANCELLOR, — I  think  I  see  our  learn- 
ed judges  layiug  aside  their  practiques  and  deci- 
sions, studying  the  common  law  of  England,  gra- 
velltd  with  certiorJries,  nisi  priuses,  writs  of 
error,  verdicts  in  duvar,  ejcctione  Jirmce,  injunc- 
tions, demurs,  &.C.,  and  freighted  with  appeals  and 
avocations,  because  of  the  new  regulations  and 
rectiticaliuns  they  may  meet  with,  I  think  I  see 
the  valiant  und  gallant  soldiery  either  sent  to 
learn  the  plantation  trade  abroad,  or  at  home  pe- 
titioning for  a  small  subsistence  as  the  reward  of 
their  honourable  exploita,  while  their  old  corps 
are  broken,  the  commun  soldiers  left  to  beg,  and 
the  youngest  English  corjis  kept  standing.  I 
think  I  see  the  honest,  industrious  tradesman 
loaded  with  new  taxes  a*  d  impositions,  disap- 
pointed of  the  eciuivalents,  drinking  water  in 
place  of  ale — (laughter;— eating  his  saliless  pot- 
tage— (renewed  laughter) — petitioning  for  en- 
couragement to  his  manufuctories,  and  answered 


by  counter  petitions.  In  short,  I  think  1  see  the 
laborious  ploughman,  with  his  corn  spoiling  upon 
his  hands  for  want  of  sale,  cursing  the  day  ef  his 
birth,  dreading  the  expense  of  his  burial — (laugh- 
ter)— and  uncertain  whether  to  marry  or  do  worse. 
(Much  laughter.)  I  think  I  see  the  incurable  dif- 
ficulties of  landed  men,  fettered  under  the  golden 
chain  of  equivalents,  their  pretty  daughters  pe- 
titioning for  want  of  husbands — (laughter) — and 
their  sons  for  want  of  employment.  I  think  I  sec 
our  mariners  delivering  up  their  ships  to  their 
Dutch  partners,  and  what  through  presses  and 
necessity,  earning  their  bread  ts  underlings  in 
the  royal  English  navy. 

And  here,  Mr.  Speaker,  comes  the  climax, 
and  i,f  I  were  asked  to  point  to  one  of 
the  dramatis  personoe  in  our  Canadian  House 
of  Assembly  fitted  to  take  part  in  a  similar 
scene  as  is  here  depicted,  I  should  unhesitat- 
ingly turn  to  the  honorable  member  for  Cha- 
teauguay  (Hon.  Mr.  Holton),  who  could 
uioto  suitably  than  any  one  else  I  know  per- 
sonate Lord  Belhav  EN  when  he  exclaims: 
"  But  above  all,  my  Lord,  I  think  I  sec  our 
ancient  mother  Caledonia,  like  C.«sar,  sit- 
ting in  the  midst  of  our  Senate,  ruefully 
looking  round  about  her,  covering  hei-self 
with  her  royal  garment,  attending  to  the  fatal 
blow  and  breathing  out  her  last  with  et  tn 
quoque  ml  Jili."  (Laughter.)  It  must  have 
seemed  very  strange  for  the  statesmen  of 
Scotland,  who  saw  in  the  union  of  the  two 
kingdojns  all  the  evidences  of  coming  power 
and  grandeur,  to  have  heard  expressed  such 
desponding  sentiments  as  these.  (Hear, 
hear.j  No  doubt  the  majority  saw  in  the 
union  which  they  were  then  about  to  consum- 
mate, the  strength  which  subsequently  grew 
out  of  that  union,  and  the  influence  and 
greatness  by  which  it  would  be  att^^nded. 
At  the  time  of  the  union  Scotland  had  only  a 
revenue  of  £150,000  per  annum,  and  last 
year  she  contributed  to  the  British  exchequer 
nearly  £7,000,000.  (Hear,  hear.)  This, 
however,  is  but  one  instance  of  the  benefit  of 
the  union,  which  has  worked  to  the  fullest 
extent  as  well  as  could  possibly  be  desired. 
If  necessary  I  could  bring  forward  many  ar- 
guments to  prove  that,  in  the  same  manner, 
union  between  different  peoples  who  are  geo- 
graphically situated  so  as  to  favor  it,  adds  to 
their  strength,  and  makes  them  greater  and 
more  powerful  than  they  could  jx)ssibly  hope 
to  become  in  their  several  states  of  separation 
and  isolation.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am  (]uite 
aware,  sir,  that  in  a  matter  of  this  kind  it  is 
exceedingly  easy  to  make  objections.  Tiicre 
can  be  nothing  easier  than  to  carp  at  a  set  ol 
resolutions  like  those.     It  would  not  bo  diffi- 


429 


cult  to  spend  hours  in  captious  criticism  as  to 
the  details  of  such  a  scheme  as  is  proposed. 
But  I  think  we  may  fairly  call  on  those  gen- 
tlemen who  criticise  in  a  hostile  spirit  a 
measure  of  this  character,  to  say  what  else 
they  propose  to  do ;  for,  if  we  cannot  carry 
this  into  practical  operation  now,  it  is  quite 
evident  something  else  must  be  devised.  I  re- 
collect that  last  year,  when  the  present  ad- 
ministration came  down  to  the  House  pro- 
posing such  a  plan  for  settling  our  difficulties, 
and  received,  as  I  for  one  imagined,  the  sanc- 
tion of  this  House,  I  remarked  that  the 
course  of  the  House  was  a  revolutionary  one, 
the  revolution  to  be  a  peaceable  one  certainly, 
but  still  a  revolution.  It  implied  the  opinion 
on  the  part  of  our  public  men,  that  our 
present  system  could  not  be  gone  on  with ; 
and  if  our  present  system  cannot  be  continued, 
we  ought  not  to  attempt  to  throw  out  this 
measure  merely  because  it  docs  not  entirely 
meet  the  views  of  every  member  of  this 
House.  (Hear.)  I  think  it  would  have  been 
desirable  that  all  the  members  from  Lower 
Canada  should  have  united  with  us  and 
studied  out  a  new  system,  and  gone  to 
work  earnestly  to  give  it  effect  by  the  ne- 
cessary legislation.  (Hear.)  I  did  hope 
that  when  the  measure  came  down  and  we 
met  this  session  to  discuss  it,  it  would  not 
have  been  thought  necessary  by  any  one  to 
organize  a  regular  opposition.  Certainly  I 
did  not  expect  that  honorable  gentlemen  like 
the  honorable  members  for  Hochelaga  and 
Chateauguay,  who  have  hitherto  appeared  to 
recognize  the  gravity  of  our  constitutional  dif- 
ficulties, or  have  at' least  asserted  that  they 
did,  would  have  found  it  necessary  to  go  into 
unqualified  opposition.  1  rather  thought  they 
would  have  endeavored  to  give  effect  to  the 
measure  as  the  only  remedial  one  within  our 
reach.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  not  because  I 
think  the  measure  entirely  faultless  that  I 
propose  to  give  it  my  utmost  support,  but  be- 
cause I  believe  every  other  measure  to  be  im- 
possible now,  and  because,  under  the  proposed 
government,  the  country  has  a  great  future 
before  it.  Looking  at  the  matter  commer- 
cially, as  a  question  of  comparative  cheapness, 
we  shall  not  be,  to  say  the  least,  any  worse  off 
than  at  the  present  moment.  I  believe  we 
shall  be  able  to  govern  as  cheaply  united  as 
we  now  do  separately.  I  apprehend  there  will 
be  no  necessity  in  the  Local  Legislature  for 
more  than  one  chamber,  and  although  this 
branch  of  the  subject  has  not  been  discussed 
in  the  House,  and  we  do  not  know  what  the 
propositions  of  the  Government  are  to  be,  I 


may  take  occasion  to  say  that  I  hope  they 
will  not  think  of  adopting  the  double  system 
in  our  local  legislatures,  for  it  will  cause  a 
serious  increase  of  expenditure,  not  attended 
with  a  corresponding  benefit.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  honorable  member  for  Montreal  Centre 
devoted  a  large  portion  of  his  speech  last 
night  to  the  military  side  of  the  question,  and 
argued  very  strongly,  from  the  position  of  the 
neighboring  republic,  that  it  was  absolutely 
indispensable  for  us  to  become  a  military 
power.  Now.  while  I  am  not  at  all  disposed 
to  take  the  view  that  gentleman  does  of  the 
position  of  the  United  States  relatively 
towards  ourselves ;  while  I  do  not  think  that 
any  large  proportion  of  the  people  of  the 
United  States  have  hostile  inclinations 
towards  ourselves — though  they  are  apt  to  in- 
dulge in  language  that  is  undoubtedly  unbe- 
coming and  certainly  threatening ;  while  I  do 
not  at  all  anticipate  they  will  adopt,  in  so  un- 
justifiable a  manner  as  he  seemed  to  expect, 
any  hostile  measures  towards  us,  it  is  not  to  be 
denied  that  with  a  population  of  three  millions 
and  a  half,  it  will  be  absolutely  necessary  for 
us  to  take  some  steps  that  will  place  us  in  a 
more  independent  position.  It  is  not  honor- 
able, it  is  not  manly  for  so  powerful  a  colony 
as  this  is  to  depend  entirely  on  the  Mother 
Country  for  protection.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  took 
occasion  to  express  these  views  last  year,  when 
discussing  the  estimates,  and  said  I  hoped 
the  Government  would  bring  down  a  measure 
to  pay  a  large  portion  of  the  expenditure  at- 
tendant on  the  maintenance,  by  the  Imperial 
Government,  of  British  troops  among  us. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Portugal,  with  a  population  as 
nearly  as  can  be  equal  to  our  own,  has  a 
standing  army  of  17,000  men.  Holland,  with 
about  the  same  population  as  ourselves  at 
home,  but  with  extensive  colonies  abroad,  has 
a  standing  army  of  57,500  men.  Denmark, 
with  a  population  not  quite  equal  to  one  half 
what  the  Confederacy  will  possess,  has  an 
army  of  22,900  men.  Now  I  do  not  think  it 
will  be  at  all  necessary  for  us  to  maintain  a 
standing  army  like  these  nations.  I  do  not 
think  we  are  in  the  same  position  as  these 
countries,  because  our  wealth  is,  to  a  great 
extent,  not  realized.  It  would  be  hardly  fair 
to  assess  some  of  our  new  counties,  where 
people  own  nothing  but  their  land,  at  the 
nominal  value  of  that  land,  for  the  purpose  of 
paying  a  large  standing  army ;  and  besides  we 
have  no  colonies,  no  outside  sources  of  wealth. 
I  think,  however,  we  are  nearly  as  well  able, 
man  for  man,  to  maintain  a  force  necessary 
for  our  defence  as  the  people  of  Great  Bri- 


iSO 


tain,  and  whatever  measure  the  Confederate 
Government  may  propose  of  a  moderate,  rea- 
sonable nature,  will,  I  am  convinced,  receive 
the  support  of  the  majority  of  the  people  of 
this  country.  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  I  ap- 
prehend it  is  not  looking  at  all  too  fiir  forward 
to  think  of  the  day  when  another  colony  to 
the  westward  of  Canada  West  will  come  into 
the  union.  I  am  of  course  unaware  what 
papers  may  be  brought  down  by  the  Govern- 
ment in  reference  to  the  North- West  and  the 
Hudson's  Bay  Territory,  but  I  hope  when 
they  do  come  down  they  will  show  some 
progress  iu  that  direction,  in  raising  that 
magnificent  country  from  the  state  in  which 
it  now  is.  I  hope  some  system  will  be  put  into 
operation  for  extending  roads  and  telegraphs 
to  that  country,  so  as  to  open  it  up  for  settle- 
ment by  our  own  young  men  and  immigrants 
coming  from  Europe.  The  question  of  the 
North- West  is  most  intimately  connected  with 
our  prosperity  as  a  people,  and  some  exception 
has  justly  been  taken  to  the  68th  and  G9th 
paragraphs  in  the  resolutions,  which  say  :  — 

68.  The  General  Governmeut  shall  secure, 
without  delay,  the  completion  of  the  latercolonial 
Railway  from  Riviere  du  Loup  through  New 
Brunswick,  to  Truro  in  Nova  Scotia. 

69.  The  communications  with  the  North-West- 
ern  Territory  and  the  improvements  required  for 
the  development  of  the  trade  of  the  Great  West 
with  the  sea-board,  are  regarded  by  this  Con- 
ference as  subjects  of  the  highest  importance  to 
the  Federated  Provinces,  and  shall  bo  prosecuted 
at  the  earliest  possible  period  that  the  state  of  the 
finances  v/ill  admit. 

Mr.  T.  C.  W^ALLBRIDGE— That  is  the 
point. 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— Yes,  that  is  the 
point  my  hon.  friend  is  very  much  exercised 
over,  but  he  is  quite  as  much  in  favor  of  Con- 
federation as  I  am.  In  this  paragraph,  while 
it  is  pronounced  indispensable  to  have  the  In- 
tercolonial lluilway  built  at  once,  it  is  only 
promised  that  as  soon  as  the  state  of  the 
finances  will  permit,  the  North-West  is  to  bo 
taken  in  hand.  I  think  it  is  absolutely  neces- 
sary lor  the  jrosperity  of  this  colony  that  our 
canal  connection  with  the  upper  lakes  should 
be  peric'ctcd  as  early  as  possible.  Our  canal 
Hystcni  must  be  improved  so  as  to  aceoinmo- 
dite  the  large  trade  that  is  coming  from  the 
Nurth-Wcst.  On  the  northern  shores  of  Lake 
Superior  wc  have  sources  of  wealth  that  are 
perl'cctly  inexhaustible.  We  read  only  the 
other  day  that  a  mountain  of  iron  had  been 
discovered  close  to  the  coast,  quite  suihcient 
to  supply  the  demands  of  tiie  world  lor  DUO 


years.  We  have  in  that  locality  an  abundant 
supply  of  minerals  of  all  kinds,  and  unless  our 
canals  are  made  capable  of  carrying  that 
traffic,  it  will  necessarily  find  channels  in 
another  direction.  (Hear.)  There  is  an 
agitation  among  a  portion  of  the  community 
for  making  a  new  canal  from  Toronto  to  the 
Georgian  Bay,  and  1  admit  it  is  very  dcbir- 
able  it  should  be  constructed,  though  I  do 
not  think  it  ever  can  be;  and  even  if  it  could  be, 
it  is  entirely  beyond  our  resources  at  the 
present  time.  I  am  convinced  that  the  true 
route  for  a  canal  (if  a  new  one  should  be  un- 
dertaken) to  the  Georgian  Bay  is  up  the 
Ottawa,  because  that  would  be  giving  a  great 
backbone  to  the  country.  If  we  had  a  fine 
canal,  capable  of  carrying  vessels  of  war  in 
that  direction,  it  would  be  a  splendid  means 
of  defence,  as  well  as  a  great  highway  for  the 
commercial  products  of  the  west.  Of  courBC 
I  know  this  to  be  impossible  at  the  present 
time,  but  1  think  it  exceedingly  desirable  that 
we  should  press  on  the  attention  of  the  Gov- 
ernment, with  all  the  influence  that  can  be 
brought  to  bear,  the  necessity  ibr  having  this 
69th  article  attended  to,  though  I  am  not 
inclined  to  go  farther  th  an  that  now.  (Hear.) 
The  importance  of  perfecting  the  present  and 
other  highways  to  the  centre  of  the  continent 
must  be  so  apparent  to  all  parts  of  our  com- 
mon country,  that  I  see  no  reason  to  fear  that 
the  subject  will  not  receive  due  attention  Irom 
the  Confederate  Government  at  the  earliest 
moment.  As  regards  the  Intercolonial  Kail- 
way,  I  have  taken  some  little  interest  in  that, 
as  1  knew  that  1  would  be  compelled  to  dis- 
cuss it  on  approaching  this  subject,  and,  in 
examining  the  maps  and  reports  of  Major 
EoBlNSON,  I  find  that  there  is  no  difiiculty 
whatever  in  arriving  at  a  conclusion  as  to  tiie 
comparative  cost.  The  route  tliat  is  most 
feasible — that  alluded  to  by  the  honorable 
member  for  Kichelieu — the  northern  or  eastern 
route  by  the  Bay  of  Chaleur.^,  is  about  655 
miles  from  llalil'ax  to  Quebec.  It  is  already 
constructed  to  Truro,  some  55  miles  from 
Halifax,  and  Irom  Quebec  140  miles  to 
llivi^re  du  Loup.  This  will  leave  nearly  -iOU 
miles  to  bo  built.  Major  IIobinson  estimates 
the  cos't  of  the  road  at  about  £7,000  per  mile, 
or  about  X2,80(),000  altogether.  I  do  not 
think,  judging;  from  the  statcnmnt  he  gives  of 
the  grades  iu  the  road,  the  bridges  to  bo  built, 
and  the  materiul  to  be  found  along  the  line, 
that  it  is  a  fair  ini'orcuco  that  the  cost  would 
equal  the  amount  he  sets  down.  Tho  charac- 
ter of  the  ground  over  which  tho  road  will 
pass  is  very  similar  to  the  railways  of  Canada. 


431 


It  is  represented  to  be  very  much  of  the 
nature  of  the  country  through  which  the 
Great  Western  runs  westward  of  Hamilton 
over  a  great  portion  of  the  line.  The  best 
portion  of  the  line  is  equal  to  the  worst  por- 
tions of  the  Great  Western.  Even  at  the  cost 
of  £7,000  per  mile  the  expense  of  constructing 
the  entire  road  would  be  a  little  over  fifteen 
millions  of  dollars.  The  proportion  of  that 
payable  by  Canada  would  be  about  nine  mil- 
lions. I  think  it  is  extremely  probable  that 
when  we  obtain  the  report  of  the  engineers 
sent  out  by  our  Government,  it  will  be  found 
that  a  very  large  portion  can  be  constructed 
for  much  less  than  £7,000  per  mile.  But, 
whatever  the  sum  may  amount  to,  it  is  per- 
fectly clear  that  without  the  road  there  can 
be  no  union  of  the  provinces.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  equally  clear  that  on  that  road  there  is  a 
very  large  proportion  of  the  country  that  is 
exceedingly  desirable  for  settlement,  and  that 
only  awaits  the  opening  up  of  some  means  of 
communication  with  the  markets.  Major 
Robinson  reports  that  on  one  portion  of  it — 
and  I  confess  that  I  was  not  aware  of  the  fact 
until  I  examined  the  report  more  closely  to- 
day— that  there  is  a  tract  of  country  along 
the  New  Brunswick  portion  of  the  line  not 
excelled  for  timber  or  land  in  any  part  of  the 
world  that  he  ever  saw.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do 
not  propose  taking  up  the  time  of  the  House 
hy  reading  from  this  valuable  report,  but 
estimates  are  given  showing  the  amount  of 
population  that  these  districts  will  support 
when  properly  settled.  He  shows  that  the 
country,  if  the  road  is  once  carried  through, 
will  be  settled  very  rapidly.  I  do  not,  how- 
ever, expect  that  that  road  can  possibly  pay 
as  a  commercial  enterprise  for  a  long  time  to 
come,  and  I  do  not  desire  to  deceive  myself 
or  deceive  any  other  person  on  that  point. 
That  it  will  be  of  importance  more  as  a  mili- 
tary work  than  for  any  other  purpose,  nobody 
can  deny.  In  1862,  when  I  opposed  the  pro- 
po.sition  to  construct  the  road,  1  then  felt  that 
tliis  was  an  argument  that  could  fairly  be  used 
iu  its  favor.  Military  authorities  are  still 
unanimously  of  opinion  that  its  construction 
would  be  of  great  importance  as  a  means  of 
protection  in  case  of  hostilities.  The  most 
important  reason,  however,  why  it  should  be 
constructed,  in  addition  to  the  military  reason, 
is,  that  without  its  construction  there  can  be 
no  union  of  the  provinces,  and  without  a 
Federal  union  of  the  provinces  we  cannot  hope 
to  obtain  a  settlement  of  our  sectional  difficul- 
ties. The  one  is  dependent  upon  the  other, 
and  I  believe  the  people  of  Canada  are  willing 


to  accept  the  conclusion  that  this  argument  ne- 
cessarily leads  us  to  engage  in  the  construction 
of  that  road.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not  propose 
to-night  to  indulge  much  in  figures  relative  to 
what  our  condition  will  be,  financially,  after 
this  measure  is  carried  out ;  but  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  made  some  statements 
that  I  can  scarcely  allow  to  pass.  He  was 
understood  to  say  that  Lower  Canada  came 
into  the  union  without  any  debt,  and  was  to 
go  out  with  thirty  millions  of  dollars  of  debt, 
while  only  some  twelve  millions  of  dollars  were 
expended  in  that  section  of  the  province. 
Now,  sir,  there  has  been  spent  altogether  on 
the  canals  of  Canada  $20,813,304.03 ;  on 
roads  and  bridges  in  Canada  West,  $562,866, 
and  on  roads  and  bridges  in  Canada  East, 
$1,163,829.34;  on  the  government  buildings 
at  Ottawa  there  have  already  been  paid  over 
$1,513,412.56;  and  on  railroads  there  have 
been  spent  altogether  $29,910,825.16,  or 
altogether  about  $53,964,236.79.  Now,  I 
think  that  one-half  of  this  enormous  amount 
is  fairly  chargeable  to  Lower  Canada.  One- 
half  or  a  little  more  than  that  of  the  works 
on  which  the  money  was  spent  are  situated  m 
Lower  Canada,  and,  if  we  iiiclude  the  Victoria 
Bridge,  it  is  considerably  more  than  one-half. 
Besides  these,  however,  there  are  quite  a  num- 
ber of  other  items  which  I  do  not  take  into 
account.  There  is  the  Quebec  Fire  Loan, 
and  a  deficiency  in  a  number  of  special  funds 
that  I  will  not  take  any  notice  of  at  this 
time.  Then  take  it  from  another  point  of 
view.  From  a  return  made  to  Parliament,  we 
find  that  the  entire  cost  of  improving  the 
navigation  in  Upper  Canada,  including  the 
cost  of  light-houses,  canals,  &c.,  altogether 
amounted  to  $7,022,665.61 ;  that  the  revenue 
derived  from  Upper  Canada  harbors  and 
canals  has  been  $4,887,291.73  ;  leaving  a 
balance  against  Upper  Canada  of  $2,145,- 
373.88.  In  Lower  Canada,  during  the  same 
period,  the  expenditure  has  been  $4,484,- 
566.52,  while  there  was  a  revenue  of 
$708,086.80,  leaving  a  balance  against  Lower 


Canada   of    $4,176,479.72. 


give 


these 


figures  simply  to  prove  that  the  position  taken 
by  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  was 
entirely  incorrect ;  but  it  would  be  superfluous 
to  do  that  if  I  were  to  allude  to  one  item 
which  he  gave  when  he  was  comparing  the 
amount  of  debt  that  we  would  have  to  pay 
per  head  of  our  population,  compared  with 
that  of  Great  Britain.  The  amount  per  head 
with  us  is  about  $25,  and  he  gravely  told  the 
House  that  the  amount  per  head  ia  Great 
Britain  was   only   $37,   when   every  person 


4S2 


knows  or  ought  to  know  that  it  is  about 
$1-40.  Nevertheless  he  drew  a  comparison 
showing  that  while  the  comparatively  poor 
people  of  Canada  would  have  to  pay  $25 
per  head,  the  rich  people  of  Great  Brit- 
ain had  only  S37  to  pay.  It  is  very  re- 
markable, however,  that  the  whole  of  this 
portion  of  the  honorable  gentleman's  speech 
was  omitted  from  the  report  given  in  the 
papers  next  morning.  I  do  not  propose  to  go 
into  these  figures,  but  merely  to  refer  to  a  few 
facts  to  place  the  assertions  made  by  that 
honorable  gentleman  in  their  true  light  before 
the  House.  Our  debt  is  indeed  very  large, 
and  we  could  all  wish  that  it  was  very  much 
less  than  it  is,  but  we  have  got  to  bear  it  and 
to  pay  it,  and  must  do  the  best  we  can  under 
the  circumstances.  The  measure  of  Con- 
federation, in  my  opinion,  will  not  add  to  nor 
yet  lessen  it,  except  what  may  be  incurred  for 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Hall- 
way. It  is  quite  possible,  of  course,  that  we 
may  undertake  enormous  expenditures  for 
public  works  calculated  to  open  up  and  de- 
velope  the  resources  of  the  country,  and  thus 
soon  render  our  debt  much  heavier  than  at  pres- 
ent, and  it  will  be  a  question  for  the  Govenment 
that  may  be  established  after  Confederation, 
to  decide  how  far  it  will  be  wise  or  prudent  to 
undertake  works  of  great  cost  until  we  shall 
have  a  good  surplus  in  hand.  (Hear,  hear.) 
One  of  the  objections  xirged  by  the  opponents 
of  the  measure  is,  that  it  is  being  hurried 
through  too  fast — that  in  a  matter  of  so  much 
much  importance  to  present  and  future  gener- 
ations, more  time  for  consideration  should  be 
given.  We  have  been  discussing  this  question 
for  many  years  in  Canada  West.  Since  the 
Toronto  Convention  of  1859,  the  question  has 
been  continuously  before  the  people.  It  is  now 
nearly  a  year  since  it  was  proposed  in  some- 
thing like  its  present  shape  in  this  House,  and 
since  that  time  the  whole  of  our  newspapers 
have  been  writing  upon  it  continually.  We 
have  nearly  300  newspapers  in  the  country — 
and  they  have  been  carrying  on  a  constant 
argument  for  or  against  the  scheme,  until  I 
do  not  think  it  is  possible  to  say  or  write  much 
more  upon  the  subject  witli  any  advantage. 
If  the  question  is  not  now  fully  understood, 
I  fear  it  will  not  be  much  better  understood 
by  any  delay  that  can  be  now  accorded. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Another  objection  raised  is, 
that  a  measure  of  such  vast  importance  ought 
not  to  be  carried  through  without  its  lirbt 
being  submitted  to  the  people.  I  havo  mixed 
with  the  people  a  good  deal,  and  I  have  found 
the  opinioD  all  but  unirersal  amongst  them, 


that  it  was  expedient  to  put  the  measure  into 
practical  operation  as  soon  as  possible.  The 
people  consider  it  utterly  impossible  to  carry 
on  the  former  violent  political  agitation  with 
any  benefit  to  the  country,  and  the  desire  is 
general  that  we  should  get  rid  of  the  present 
constitutional  diflBculties  and  get  settled  down 
to  some  quiet  and  permanent  way  of  manag- 
ing our  governmental  business  and  political 
discussions.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  charges  that 
are  made  against  members  of  this  House  about 
inconsistency  in  advocating  this  measure,  are 
very  easily  met.  In  a  country  like  ours,  so 
full  of  change,  with  a  constant  agitation  going 
on  for  constitutional  changes  and  for  new 
laws,  both  local  and  general,  it  is  utterly  im- 
possible that  a  man  can  remain  long  in  public 
life  without  being  open  to  charges  of  incon- 
sistency ;  but  if  these  are  caused  by  a  strong 
effort  to  settle  the  difficulties  under  which 
the  country  has  been  laboring,  like  the  present 
one,  I  feci  certain  that  the  success  of  the 
measure  in  hand  will  render  the  charges  of 
only  evanescent  existence.  I  think  it  exceed- 
ingly desirable,  even  for  the  sake  of  those 
people  who  might  reasonably  feel  the  strongest 
objections  to  it — I  mean  the  English  minority 
of  Lower  Canada,  and  the  Catholic  minority 
of  Upper  Canada — that  it  should  be  settled 
at  once.  So  long  as  the  question  remains  in 
its  present  state,  there  will  be  a  constant  agi- 
tation going  on,  and  much  injury  may  be 
done  by  the  misrepresentations  that  will  be 
indulged  in,  and  the  misapprehensions  which 
will  exist ;  but  if  these  people  can  be  assured 
that  the  scheme  provides  a  perfect  remedy 
for  any  injustice  that  they  might  apprehend, 
they  will  immediately  concur  in  it.  As  regai-ds 
the  people  of  Lower  Canada  of  French  ori- 
gin, and  who  are  Roman  Catholics,  I  have 
always  heard  it  said  in  their  favor,  that  a 
large  degree  of  liberalism  characteriaes  their 
conduct  toward  their  i'rotestant  neighbors. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Lower  Canada,  I  believe,  was 
the  first  portion  of  British  territory  to  give 
political  freedom  to  the  Jew.  I  believe  that  a 
person  of  this  persuasion  sat  in  the  Lower 
Canada  Legislature  thirty  years  before  the  same 
privileges  were  aecorJuJ  in  Groat  Britain. 
People  who  charged  the  French  Canadians 
with  intoloraiiee  should  reiuember  this  with 
some  degree  of  favor.  Witli  regard  to  the 
people  of  British  origin,  over  the  whole 
Confederacy,  I  do  not  tliiiik  it  is  at  all 
necessary  to  defend  them  from  any  charges 
of  this  kind.  I  do  not  think  they  will  be  in- 
clined to  persecute  the  people  of  Lower  Can- 
ada if  they  had  it  in  their  power ;  but  I  nd- 


433 


init  that  it  is  reasonable  and  just  to  insert  a 
provision  in  the  scheme  that  will  put  it  out  of 
the  power  of  any  party  to  act  unjustly.  If 
the  power  that  the  central  authority  is  to 
have — of  vetoing  the  doings  of  the  Local  Leg- 
islature— is  used,  it  will  be  ample,  I  think,  to 
prevent  anything  of  that  kind.  But  the  veto 
itself  is  objected  to.  It  is  objected  that  the 
elected  Legislature  will  be  rendered  powerless 
by  the  influence  of  the  appointed  Upper 
House  exercised  over  them.  Well,  sir,  under 
the  British  Constitution,  in  all  British  colon- 
ies, and  in  Great  Britain  itself,  there  is  a 
certain  elasticity  to  be  presumed.  Every- 
thing is  not  provided  for,  because  a  great  deal 
is  trusted  to  the  common  sense  of  the  people. 
I  think  it  is  quite  fair  and  safe  to  assert  that 
there  is  not  the  slightest  danger  that  the 
Federal  Parliament  will  perpetrate  any  injus- 
tice upon  the  local  legislatures,  because  it 
would  cause  such  a  reaction  as  to  compass 
the  destruction  of  the  power  thus  unjustly 
exercised.  The  veto  power  is  necessary  in 
order  that  the  General  Government  may  have 
a  control  over  the  proceedings  of  the  local 
legislatui'es  to  a  certain  extent.  The  want  of 
this  power  was  the  great  source  of  weakness 
in  the  United  States,  and  it  is  a  want  that 
will  be  remedied  by  an  amendment  in  their 
Constitution  very  soon.  So  long,  as  each 
state  considered  itself  sovereign,  whose  acts 
and  laws  could  not  be  called  in  question,  it 
was  quite  clear  that  the  central  authority  was 
destitute  of  power  to  compel  obedience  to 
general  laws.  If  each  province  were  able  to 
enact  such  laws  as  it  pleased,  everybody 
would  be  at  the  mercy  of  the  local  legisla- 
tures, and  the  General  Legislature  would  be- 
come of  little  importance.  It  is  contended 
that  the  power  of  the  General  Legislature 
should  be  held  in  check  by  a  veto  power  with 
reference  to  its  own  territory,  resident  in  the 
local  legislatures,  respecting  the  application 
of  general  laws  to  their  jurisdiction.  All 
power,  they  say,  comes  from  the  people  and 
ascends  through  them  to  their  representa- 
tives, and  through  the  representatives  to  the 
Crown.  But  it  would  never  do  to  set  the 
Local  above  the  General,  Government.  The 
Central  Parliament  and  Government  must,  of 
necessity,  exercise  the  supreme  power,  and 
the  local  g-ovcrnments  will  have  the  exercise 
of  power  corresponding  to  the  duties  they  have 
to  perform.  The  system  is  a  new  and  untried 
one,  and  ;iiay  not  work  so  harmoniously  as  we 
now  anticip.  te,  but  there  will  always  be  power 
in  the  British  Parliament  and  our  own  to  rem- 
edy any  defects  that  may  be  discovered  after 
56 


the  sy.stcm  is  in  operation..  Altogether,  I 
regard  the  scheme  as  a  magnificent  one,  and 
I  look  ibrward  to  the  future  with  anticipa- 
tions of  seeing  a  country  and  a  government 
possessing  great  power  and  respectability,  and 
of  being,  before  I  die,  a  citizen  of  an  im- 
mense empire  built  up  on  our  part  of  the 
North  American  continent,  where  the  folds 
of  the  British  flag  will  float  in  triumph  over 
a  people  possessing  freedom,  happiness  and 
prosperity  equal  to  the  people  of  any  other  nar 
tion  on  the  earth.  If  there  is  anything  that 
I  have  always  felt  anxious  about  in  this  coun- 
try, it  is  to  have  the  British  possessions  put 
ia  such  a  position  that  we  could  safely  repose, 
without  fear  of  danger  Irom  any  quarter, 
under  the  banner  which  we  believe  after  all 
covers  the  greatest  amount  of  personal  free- 
dom and  the  greatest  amount  of  personal 
happiness  that  is  to  be  found  in  the  world. 
(Hear,  hear.)  And  when  we  look  to  the 
vast  territory  we  have  in  the  North- West; 
when  we  know  that  the  great  rivers  which  flow' 
through  that  territory,  flow  through  immense 
beds  of  coal,  and  that  the  whole  country  is 
rich  in  mineral  deposits  of  all  kinds — petro- 
leum, copper,  gold  and  iron  ;  that  the  land  is 
teeming  with  resources  of  wealth  calculated  to 
build  up  an  extensive  and  valuable  commerce, 
and  support  a  powerful  nation ;  that  all  this 
we  can  touch  and  seize  upon  the  moment  we 
are  prepared  to  open  up  a  way  to  reach  them 
and  allow  the  settler  to  enter ;  when  we  re- 
member this,  I  say,  I  think  we  can  look  for- 
ward with  hope  to  a  prodigious  increase  in 
our  population  and  an  immense  development 
of  strength  and  power.  (Hear,  hear.)  So 
far  our  people  have  had  to  contend  with  the 
usual  difficulties  common  to  the  people  of  all 
new  countries  like  ours ;  but  now  Canada  is 
beginning  to  assume  a  position  of  commer- 
cial importance,  and  in  proportion  as  that 
importance  increases  we  will  be  able  to  devote 
ourselves  to  the  opening  up  and  settlement 
of  the  interior,  and  to  the  development  of  a 
new  nationality  —  to  use  the  term  that  has 
been  so  sharply  criticised — in  that  vast  western 
country  where  there  is  hardly  a  white  man 
living  to-day.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not 
propose,  sir,  to  follow  the  example  that  has 
been  set  of  speaking  four  or  five  hours  upon 
this  subject.  I  proposed  at  the  beginning 
briefly  to  give  my  own  views  in  reference  to 
the  Confederation  of  these  provinces,  and  then 
to  leiive  the  ground  to  other  honorable  gentle- 
men. 1  um  exceedingly  desirous  of  seeing 
the  debate  proceed  as  rapidly  as  possible  ; 
and  believing  it  will  be  necessary  for  us  to 


434 


speak  briefly  upon  the  question  rather  than 
indulge  in  long  set  speeches,  I  determined  to 
give  an  example  in  this  respect  and  bring  my 
remarks  within  reasonable  bounds.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  believe  then,  sir,  in  the  first  place, 
that  Confederation  is  desirable  ;  in  the  second, 
that  it  is  attainable ;  and,  in  the  third  place, 
that  it  is  the  best  thing  ue  can  get,  and  this 
last  is  perhaps  the  strongest  reason  of  all  for 
accepting  it.  It  is  quite  clear  that  we  must 
have  a  settlement  of  our  difficulties  in  some 
way,  and  I  think  the  scheme  proposed  is  a 
very  favorable  settlement  of  them.  I  think 
it  is  more  than  perhaps  some  of  us  expected 
at  the  time  when  the  present  Government  was 
formed  to  bring  about  a  settlement ;  and  I  do 
think,  sir,  that  it  would  be  the  greatest  act 
of  madness  that  western  members  of  this 
House  could  perpetrate  to  vote  against  it. 
( Hear,  hear.)  I  am  not,  however,  afraid  that 
it  will  be  voted  against  by  them.  I  believe 
that  under  it  we  have  obtained  representation 
by  population,  that  we  have  obtained  what  we 
have  long  contended  was  justly  due  to  us,  that 
we  have  obtained  our  legitimate  influence  in 
framing  the  financial  policy  of  the  country, 
and  that  beyond  this  we  have  obtained  the 
prospect  of  building  up  a  great  British  Union 
on  this  continent.  We  should,  therefore,  I 
think,  in  view  of  these  great  advantages,  over- 
look those  objections  which  may  be  regarded 
as  antecedent  to  the  scheme,  and  endeavor 
heartily  to  carry  out  the  work  successfully.  I 
shall  willingly  yield  my  support  to  the  scheme, 
and  I  believe  it  will  be  acceptable  to  the  people 
I  represent — not  only  to  the  people  of  the 
locality,  but  to  those  who  surround  me  in 
Upper  Canada.     (Cheers.) 

Mr.  morris  said— Mr.  Speaker,  the 
member  for  Lambton  has,  I  think,  set  a  good 
example,  and  I  shall  endeavor  if  it  be  possible 
to  follow  it.  I  desire  to  state  at  the  outset 
that  this,  as  has  been  well  observed  by  many 
who  have  spoken  upon  the  subject,  is  no  new 
question  ;  but  that  in  one  phase  or  another, 
as  was  very  properly  stated  in  the  narrative 
given  to  the  House  by  the  honorable  member 
for  Montreal  West,  it  has  been  before  the 
people  of  tliis  country  from  time  to  time  for 
many  years  past.  It  is  not  my  intention  to 
follow  that  honorable  gentleman  in  his  inter- 
esting narrative  of  the  history  of  this  qucistiou, 
but  I  desire  to  ask  the  attention  ol'  the  House 
to  the  fact  that  this  is  the  third  time  that  this 
question  has  been  formally  brought  before 
Parliament  by  the  Government  of  this  coun- 
try. The  first  occasion  was,  I  believe,  in 
1858,  when  the  then  Governor  General,  in 


closing  the  ses.?ion  of  Parliament  for  that 
year,  used  in  the  Speech  from  the  Throne  the 
following  words  : — "  I  propose,  in  the  course 
of  the  recess,  to  communicate  with  Her  Ma- 
jesty's Government  and  with  the  government 
of  the  sister  colonies,  on  another  matter  of 
very  great  importance.  I  am  desirous  of  in- 
viting them  to  discuss  with  us  the  principles 
on  which  a  bond  of  a  federal  character  uniting 
the  provinces  of  British  North  America  may, 
perhaps,  hereafter  be  practicable."  That 
formal  statement  was  followed  by  the  despatch 
which  has  been  referred  to  frequently  in  this 
House  and  during  this  debate,  and  which 
was  made  the  basis  of  the  motion  laid  before 
the  House  last  session  by  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  South  Oxford — which  motion  has  had 
the  effect  of  causing  present  and,  as  I  believe, 
future  great  results.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  be- 
lieve the  appointment  of  the  committee  moved 
for  by  that  honorable  gentleman  will  be  look- 
ed back  to  as  an  era  in  the  history  of  this 
country.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  as  to  the 
second  occasion  on  which  this  question  was 
formally  brought  before  the  attention  of  the 
House  and  country,  we  have  heard  from  those 
who  object  to  this  scheme,  that  the  people  of 
the  country  have  been  taken  by  surprise,  that 
they  do  not  understand  it,  and  that  they 
are  not  prepared  to  discuss  it.  I  would  ask, 
sir,  in  reference  to  that,  if  this  present  Gov- 
ernment was  not  formed  on  the  very  basis  and 
understanding  that  it  would  bring  about  a 
settlement  of  thjs  question,  and  if  the  people 
of  the  country  did  not  know  this  to  be  the 
fact  ?  I  hold  in  my  hand  the  basis  upon 
which  the  Government  was  formed,  in  which 
the  following  is  stated  as  the  result  of  a  long 
negotiation  between  the  leading  members  of 
it:— 

The  (lovernraent  are  prepared  to  pledge  them- 
Bolves  to  briug  in  a  measure  next  session,  lor  the 
l)urpose  of  removing  existing  difficulties  bj  intio- 
ducing  the  Federal  principle  into  Canada,  i-ouplod 
with  such  jirovisioii  as  will  permit  the  Miintima 
Provinces  and  the  North-West  territory  to  bt) 
incorporated  into  the  siune  system  of  Govern- 
ment. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear,  hear! 

Mr.  MO  Kills— I  trust  the  honorable 
gentleman  will  say  ''  Hojir,  hear,"  with  the 
same  enphasis  when  I  read  the  next  para- 
graph : — 

And  the  GovernmoTit  will  seek,  hy  sending  re- 
presenlativea  to  the  Lowir  I'roviiieen,  and  to 
Kn'^liuid,  to  secure  the  assent  of  tliuse  intorosta 
wliieli  are  hoyond  the  eontroi  of  our  own  legisla- 
tion to  such  a  uca8ur«  as  may  enablo  all  British 


435 


North  America  to  be   united    under  a  general 
legislature  based  upon  the  Federal  principle. 

This,  sii",  was  the  pledge  given  to  this  House 
and  country  by  the  present  Government  on 
its  formation.  It  was  pledged  to  introduce  the 
Federative   system   into  the  Government  of 
Canada,  with  special  provisions  for  the  incor- 
poration into  this  Federation  of  the  Maritime 
Provinces,  and  it  was  also  pledged  to    send 
delegates  to  those  provinces  and  invite  them 
to  join  us  in  this  Federation.     (Hear,  hear.) 
And  yet  we  are  told  forsooth  that  these  dele- 
gates, who  were  thus  appointed  in  conformity 
with   the  pledge  of   the  Government,    were 
"  a  self-constituted  junta," — we  were  told  that 
they  had  no  authority  for  their  action  in  the 
face  of  the  distinct  obligation  resting  upon  the 
Government  to  send  delegates  to  those  pro- 
vinces  and  to  England  with  a  view  of  bring- 
ing about  this  Confederation.     No   self-con- 
stituted junta  were  those  delegates  who  framed 
these  resolutions ;  but  they  met  in  accordance 
with  a  pledge  given  by  this  Government,  and 
must  be  held  to  have  been  called  together  with 
the    sanction  of  the  Parliament  of  Canada, 
because  Parliament    gave    the   Government, 
formed   to   effect  the   Federation,   its   confi- 
dence.    They  met  also  with  the  sanction  of 
the   Imperial   Government,   as  now   appears 
from  statements  and  despatches  in  possession 
of  this  House.     (Hear,  hear.)     But  coming 
now  to  the  present  aspect  of  the  matter,  I  feel 
that   this  country  has  reason  to  be  satisfied 
with  a  scheme  of  so  practical  a  nature  as  that 
now  under  the  consideration  of  the  House. 
I  believe  that  the  plan  of  union  proposed  will 
be  found  to  meet  the  exigencies  of  our    local 
position,  give   latitude  to   local  development, 
and  due  protection  to  local  interests,  and  yet 
secure  that  general  control  which  is  essentially 
necessary  for  the  proper  government   of  a 
country  placed  under  the  dominion   of    the 
British  Crown.     (Hear,  hear.)     And  while  I 
thus  look  upon  the  plan,  I  desire  to  state  em- 
phatically and  clearly  that  it  is  no  new  prin- 
ciple that  the  people  of  this  country  and   the 
members  of  this  House  are  asked  to  give  their 
sanction  to.     The  question  of  colonial  union, 
in  one  shape  or  another,  is  one  that  has  en- 
gaged the  attention  of  high  intellects  and  able 
statesmen  in  England ;  and  I  think  I  will  be 
able  to  show  to  the  House  that  the  very  prin- 
ciple we  are  now  endeavoring  to   introduce  as 
a  principle  of  government  in  these  British 
North  American  Provinces,  is  one  that  has 
received    the    sanction   of    eminent  men    in 
England,  and  more  than  that,  the  sanction  of 
a  solemn  act  of  the   Imperial    Parliament. 


(Hear,  hear.)     I  will   go  back  a  few  years, 
when  the  condition  of  the  Australian  colonies 
rendered  it  necessary  for  the    statesmen  of 
Great  Britain  to  endeavor  to  find  a  practical 
solution  of  the  difiiculty  of  governing   those 
great  and  growing  dependencies  of  the  British 
Crown.  What  was  the  practical  mode  adopted 
when    events    made   it  necessary   that  they 
should    form    a    new  Constitution   for    the 
more  perfect  government  of  those  colonies  ? 
Why,  the  Imperial  Government  revived  an 
old   committee  of  the  Privy   Council,  called 
the  "  Committee  on  Trade  and  Foreign  Plan- 
tations,"  and  referred  the  question  to  it,  call- 
ing in  to  its  aid,  as  new  members  of  the  com- 
mittee. Lord  Campbell,  then  Chancellor  of 
the  Duchy  of  Lancaster,  Sir  James  Stephen 
and  Sir  Edward  Ryan.     The  result  of  the 
deliberations  of  that  committee  was  a  report 
in  which  the  eminent  men  who  composed  it 
recommended  the  formation  of  a  general  as- 
sembly, to  which  the  control  of  the  general 
affairs  of  the  Australian  colonies  should  be 
entrusted,  with  local  governments  having  local 
jurisdiction  and  certain  defined  powers  grant- 
ed to  them.     I  hold  in  my  hands  a  series  of 
letters  on  the  colonial  policy  of  England,  ad- 
dressed by  Earl  Grey  to  Lord  John  Rus- 
sell, which  contain  the  report  of  the  com- 
mittee of  the  Privy  Council  that  I  have  re- 
ferred to,  and  I  find  that  the  plan  there  sug- 
gested is  analogous  to  the  one  we  are  now 
asked  to  give  practical  effect  to  in  this  coun- 
try.    (Hear,  hear.)     The  proposition  of  the 
committee  was  that  there  should  be  a  Gover- 
nor General  to  administer  the  affairs  of  the 
Australian  colonics,  and  that  he  should  con- 
vene a  body,  to  be  called  the  General  Assem- 
bly of  Australia,  on  receiving  a  request  to 
that  effect  from  two  or  more  of  the  Australian 
legislatures;     and  it  was  recommended  that 
this  General  Assembly,  so  convened,  should 
have  the  power  to  make  laws  respecting  the 
imposition  of  duties  on  imports  and  exports, 
the  post  ofiice,  the  formation  of  roads,  canals 
and  railways,  and  a  variety  of  other  subjects. 
The  advantages  of  this  plan  were  so  manifest, 
as  uniting  those  colonies  together  and  secur- 
ing for  them  a  better  and  more  satisfactory 
form  of  government  than  they  had  before  en- 
joyed, that  the  report  was  at  once  adopted  by 
the  Privy  Council,  embodied  in  a  bill  and 
submitted    to   Parliament.     The  bill  passed 
the    House   of    Commons    and   reached   the 
House  of  Lords ;  but  while  before  that  body 
the  two  clauses  which   introduced  into    the 
government  of   the  Australian  colonies   the 
same  system  that  in  effect  it  is  proposed  to 


436 


introduce  here  were  dropped,  and  why  ?  Not 
because  of  any  chaniro  of  opinion  on  the  part 
of  the  Groverument  on  the  question,  nor  be- 
cause the  House  of  Lords  was  opposed  to  the 
principle,  but  because  it  was  found  on  exam- 
iuatiuu  that  they  were  liable  to  practical  ob- 
jections, to  obviate  which  amendments  would 
have  to  be  introduced  which  there  were  no 
means  of  arraoging  without  further  commu- 
nications with  tiie  colonies.  The  Imperial 
Grovernment  would  not  make  these  changes 
in  the  measure  without  the  consent  of  the 
colonies,  but  Earl  Grey  by  no  means  changed 
his  mind  in  regard  to  the  advantages  to  be 
derived  from  the  plan  proposed,  as  the  follow- 
ing extract  from  one  of  his  despatches,  writ- 
ten in  1850,  to  the  Grovernor  of  New  South 
Wales,  will  show  : — 

I  am  not,  however,  the  less  persuaded  that 
the  want  of  some  such  central  autliority  to 
regulate  matters  of  common  impoitance  to 
the  Australian  colonies  will  be  felt,  and 
prol>ablj  at  a  very  early  period  ;  but  when  this 
want  is  so  felt,  it  will  of  itself  suggest  the  means 
by  which  it  may  be  met.  The  several  legislatures 
will,  it  is  true,  be  unable  at  once  to  give  the 
necessary  author  ty  to  a  General  Assembly,  be- 
cause tha  le_nslative  power  of  each  is  confined  of 
i.ecessity  within  its  territorial  limits;  but  it  two 
or  more  of  these  legislatures  should  tind  that 
there  are  objects  of  common  interest  for  which  it 
is  expedient  to  create  such  an  authority,  they  will 
have  it  in  their  power,  if  they  can  settle  the  terms 
of  an  arrangement  for  the  purpose,  to  pass  acts 
for  giving  eifect  to  it,  with  clauses  suspending 
their  opeiation  until  Parliament  shall  have  supplied 
the  authority  that  is  wanting.  By  such  acts  the 
extent  and  objects  of  the  powers  which  they  are 
prepared  to  delegate  to  such  a  body  might  bo 
delined  and  limited  with  precision,  and  there  can 
be  litile  doubt  that  Parliamnnt,  when  applied  to 
in  order  to  give  eliect  to  an  arrangement  so 
agreed  upon,  would  readily  conaert  to  do  so. 

Some  may  say,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  this  is 
very  true,  but  that  the  British  Government 
dropped  the  plan  and  did  not  proceed  with  it. 
I  think  I  shall  be  prepared  to  meet  that  argu- 
ment, and  show  that  it  only  rested  in  the  plan 
to  learn  the  wishes  of  the  people  ol'  the  colo- 
nies ;  lor  ynu  tind  it  following  the  very  same 
principle,  reported  upon  favorably  by  the  Com- 
mittee on  Trade  and  Foreign  Plantations,  in 
the  Con.stitution  which  was  subsequently 
granted  to  the  New  Zealand  provinces.  In 
1852,  the  plan  suggested  by  that  committee, 
in  regard  to  Australia,  was  carried  into  elfict 
in  New  Zealand,  and  it  must  be  reuicinberod 
that  at  tliat  time  the  population  of  New  Zea- 
land was  very  small,  so  small  indeed  that  one 
cannot  help  contrasting  the  positioa  uf  that 


country  with  that  of  British  North  America 
at  the  present  day ;  but  the  statesmen  of 
Great  Britain  looked  into  the  future  of  the 
colony,  and  they  decided  that  it  would  be 
advisable  to  confer  on  it  powers  analogous  to 
those  now  sought  for  by  us.  The  New  Zea- 
land Constitutional  Act  created  six  provinces, 
with  superintendents,  provincial  councils  of 
nine  appointed  by  the  governor,  and  a  general 
government  of  three  estates.  In  the  debate 
on  that  bill.  Earl  Grey  said  that  this  was  the 
only  form  of  government  wiiich  could  be  con- 
ferred on  a  colony  situated  as  that  one  was. 
He  remarked : — 

It  was  impracticable  and  must  for  many  years 
continue  to  be  S'"',  tor  any  general  ;egislatuie  to 
meet  all  the  wants  of  so  many  separate  settle 
ments  at  a  great  distance  from  each  other;  hence 
it  seemed  absolutely  uecessarv  to  constitute  pro- 
vincial legislatures  on  which  a  great  portion  of 
the  public  business  must  devolve. 

The  very  difficulty  which  was  met  with  there  is 
the  one  we  have  to  overcome  here.  It  was  found 
absolutely  necessary  to  create  in  every  province 
a  Local  Legislature,  and  in  addition  one  cen- 
tral power,  to  whom  matters  common  to  all 
might  be  referred.  Earl  Grey,  in  the  course 
of  the  same  debate,  speaking  of  the  import- 
ance of  this  arrangement,  said  :  —  "  There 
were  some  subjects  on  which  extensive  incon- 
venience would  arise,  if  unifoi'iuity  of  legisla- 
ti(m  among  the  several  provinces  were  not  in- 
sured, which  could  only  bo  accomplished  by  a 
General  Legislature."  And  that,  .sir,  is  what 
this  Government  now  asks  us  to  adopt.  They 
ask  us  to  invite  the  Imperial  Parliament  to 
create  for  us  provincial  legislatures,  to 
whom  shall  be  referred  all  local  matters,  and 
that  we  shall  have  a  General  Legislature  for 
the  care  of  those  subject;*  of  a  general  charac- 
ter which  could  not  be  so  well  looked  alter  by 
the  provincial  legislatures.  And  I  say,  sir,  that 
linding  as  we  do  that  this  is  no  new  question, 
we  can,  therefore,  understand  why  this  measure 
met  with  such  ready  approval  from  the  states- 
men of  Britain  and  the  hi-rh  commendation  of 
Her  Majesty  by  her  auvi.sers.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But,  3Ir.  Speaker,  I  will  now  pass  from  the 
consideration  of  the  history  of  this  important 
movement — and  I  a.ssuro  you  that  I  feel  the 
iliffioulty  of  addresbiug  the  IIoumj  on  this  sub- 
ject, in  consequence  of  the  sense  I  entertain 
of  the  gravity  id'  the  question  it.^elf  and  the 
iiiuiiientous  character  ol  the  L-sues  it  involves. 
The  subject,  sir,  is  one  of  the  very  highest 
importance.  The  desliuici)  of  this  groat  coun- 
try are  bound  up  in  it.     (Hour,  hear.;     The 


437 


Upper  House  lias  already  sanctioned  the 
scheme,  and  I  would  take  the  opportunity  of 
remarkino;  that  I  do  not  think  that  the  mem- 
bers  of  that  House  can  be  rightly  charged 
with  not  having  given  it  that  deliberate  con- 
sideration which  its  importance  demands.  I 
think  that  they  have  shown  a  very  proper  ex- 
ample in  their  discussion  of  the  question,  and 
one  that  we  may  well  follow.  They  debated 
with  leisure,  deliberation,  and  a  thorough  ap- 
preciation of  its  gravity,  day  by  day,  during 
four  weeks,  and  I  therefore  think  that  the 
members  of  the  Upper  House  ought  not  to 
have  been  charged  with  "  indecent  haste." 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Who  said  so  ? 

Mr.  morris  —  The  honorable  member 
from  Cornwall  was  one  of  those  who  said  so. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  said  it  was 
unsuitable  haste. 

Mr.  MORRIS — I  have  somewhat  of  a  re- 
cording memory,  and  I  think  the  words  he 
unfortunately  used  were  "  indecent  haste." 
However,  I  have  no  intention  of  disputing 
with  my  honorable  friend  as  to  the  particular 
words  he  used.  I  have  only  to  express  my 
opinion  that  the  time  which  has  been  already 
spent  on  this  question  here  and  elsewhere  has 
not  been  lost.  I  think  it  is  our  duty  to  con- 
sider this  subject  in  all  its  aspects,  and  be- 
lieving as  I  do  that  the  scheme  will  be  adopt- 
ed by  this  House,  I  feel  the  importance  of  a 
full  and  free  discussion,  in  order  that  its  mer- 
its may  be  put  before  the  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Mr.  Speaker,  I  desire  now  to  state 
that  I  support  the  proposal  at  present  under 
our  consideration,  because  in  my  honest  and 
deliberate  judgment  I  believe  that  this  union, 
if  accomplished,  is  calculated  in  its  practical 
effects  to  bind  us  more  closely  to  Britain  than 
we  could  be  bound  by  any  oth^r  system. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

A  VOICE — It  would  put  an  end  to  the 
connection. 

Mr.  morris — An  honorable  member 
says  "  it  would  put  an  end  to  the  connection." 
Well,  I  would  say  to  that  honorable  gentle- 
man and  this  House,  that  in  my  opinion  there 
are  but  two  destinies  before  us.  We  have 
either  to  rise  into  strength  and  wealtli  and 
power  by  means  of  this  union,  under  the  shel- 
tering protection  of  Britain,  or  we  must  be 
absorbed  by  the  great  power  beside  us.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  believe  that  that  is  the  only  con- 
clusion we  can  arrive  at. 

A  VOICE — But  the  people  are  against  it. 

Mr.  morris — An  honorable  gentleman 
says  the  people  are  not  in  favor  of  a  Federal 
union.     But  we  know  on  the  ooatrary,  that 


the  people  are  in  favor  of  the  change.  When 
the  public  mind  is  excited  against  any  mea- 
sure, is  there  not  a  means  open  to  the  people 
to  make  known  their  opposition,  and  how  is  it 
that  the  table  of  this  House  is  not  covered 
with  petitions  against  the  scheme,  if  it  is  so 
unpopular  as  honorable  gentlemen  would  have 
us  believe  ? 

An  Hon.  MEMBFR— There  are  no  peti- 
tions for  it. 

Mr.  morris — An  honorable  "gentleman 
says  "  there  are  no  petitions  for  it."  And  why 
is  it  that  there  are  not?  Is  it  not  because  the 
Government  was  constituted  on  the  basis  of 
union  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  The  people,  tlirough 
a  vast  majority  of  their  representatives  in  this 
House,  are  in  favor  of  it.  If  they  are  op- 
posed to  it  they  have  the  remedy  in  their  own 
hands,  they  have  the  means  of  opposing,  but 
they  do  not  oppose  it  because  they  feel  that  a 
change  of  some  kind  is  absolutely  essential, 
and  they  have  confidence  in  the  wisdom  of 
those  entrusted  with  the  destiny  of  the  country 
in  this  crisis  of  its  history.  But  I  say  that 
the  great  reason  why  tliis  scheme  has  taken 
the  hold  that  it  has  done  upon  the  public  men 
of  the  province,  is  that  they  see  in  it  an 
earnest  desire  to  perpetuate  British  connec- 
tion. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— It  will  turn  out  a 
delusion. 

Mr.  MORRIS — I  am  not  a  prophet,  nor 
the  son  of  a  prophet,  but  I  am  willing  to 
place  my  prediction  against  that  of  the  honor- 
able gentleman  who  says  it  will  be  a  delusion. 
(Hear,  hear.)  A  fear  has  been  expressed 
that  the  Confederation  will  lead  to  the  sever- 
ance of  those  links  which  bind  us  to  the 
Mother  Country.  But  I  believe  it  will  be 
our  own  fault  if  the  ties  between  us  are 
broken.  With  entire  freedom  and  the  right 
of  self-government  in  the  fullest  sense  of  the 
word,  together  with  the  great  advantage  of  an 
improved  position,  and  the  strength  and 
power  of  Great  Britian  to  foster  and  protect 
us,  why  should  we  seek  to  change  our  con- 
nection, what  object  could  we  have  to  induce 
us  to  form  other  ties?  (Hear,  hear.)  What 
have  we  to  envy  in  the  position  of  the  neigh- 
boring country,  burdened  as  it  is  with  the 
heavy  load  of  taxation  arising  from  the  cruel 
war  raging  there,  that  we  should  covet  that 
flag  ?  Why  then  should  our  coming  together 
for  the  purpose  of  union  weaken  our  position 
or  diminish  the  tie  that  links  us  to  Britain  ? 
It  will  be  for  honorable  gentlemen  who  do  not 
believe  that  the  union  of  these  scattered  colo- 
nies will  'give  them  strength,  to  prove  that, 


438 


contrary  to  all  precedent,  imion  is  not  strength. 
(Hear,  hear.)     But   I    will  btate  why   this 
union  in  c  ilculat<3d  to  prolong  our  connection 
with  Britain.     It   is  well  known  that    there 
has  been  an  entire  and  radical  change  of  late 
in  the  colonial  policy  of  England.  That  policy 
has  been  to  extend  to  us  the  utmo.'^t  liberty  in 
our  relations  to  the  Empire.      What  is   aiter 
all  the  nature  of  the  bond  which  links  us  to 
Great  Britain,  apart  from  our  allegiance  and 
luyalty  ?    What  is  it  but  a  FederaUve  bond  ? 
That  is  what  links  us  to  Britain,and  I  feel  quite 
satisfied,  in  the  words  of  an  English  publicist  of 
some  eminence,  that  "  the  new  colonial  policy 
is  calculated  to  prolong  the  connection  of  the 
colonies  with  the  Mother  Country."     I  believe 
it  will  raise  these  provinces  as  part  of  the 
British  Empire,  and  so  secure  to  us  the  per- 
manency of  British  institutions,  and  bind  us 
more  closely  to  the  Crown.     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  believe  it  will,  in  the  words  of  that  far-seeing 
statesman,  Lord  Durham,  "  raise  up  to  the 
North  American  colonist  a  nationality  of  his 
own  by  elevating  those  small  and  unimportant 
communities  hito  a  society  having  some  objects 
of  national  importance,  and  give  these  inhab- 
itants a  countiy  which  they  will  be  unwilling 
to  see  abt-orbed  into  that  of  their  powerful 
neighbors."     And,  sir,  our  neighbors  so  see  it. 
Shortly  after  the  visit  of  the  Duke  of  New- 
castle to  this  country,  attention  was  directed 
to  the  question  of  the  union  of  the  colonies, 
not  only  in  this  country,  but  in  England  and 
in  the  United  States.     The  New  York  Courier 
and  Inquirer,  in  an  article  published  at  that 
time,  came  to  the  conclusion  "that  the  union 
would,  in  fact,  be  an  argument  for  a  coutinu- 
ance  of  the  existing  relations  between  the  two 
countries  jus  a  matter  of  policy  and  gratitude, 
and  that  such  a  change  of  government  could 
be  met   with   no   objection  of  any    weight." 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  invite  the  attention  of  the 
honorable  member  for   Chateauguay   to  that 
statement.     Bat,   Mr.  Speaker,  it  is  a  sin- 
gular study,  looking  back  over  the  history  of 
the  p:i8t,  to  see   how  this  question  has  come 
up  in  the  experience  of  the  various  colonies. 
Before     the     American     revolution,      Ben- 
jamin    FuANKLIN     suggested  a  i)lau    lor  a 
Federation  of  the  old   colonies  of  Britain  on 
this  continent,  which,  he  afterwards  said, would, 
according  to  his  deliberate  opinion,  have  pre- 
vented the  Hieverance  of  the  coinicction  between 
the  colonies  and  the  Mother  Country.      1  will 
quote  a  p;issago   written  by   him   after   the 
revolution,  in  which  he  makes  allusion  to  this 
project.     He  said  :  — 
I  i>roj)o.icd  and  drow  up  a  plau  for  tlie  uuioa  of 


all  the  colonies  under  one  government,  so  far  as 
mi"ht  be  necessary  for  defence  and  other  import- 
ant general  parpc^es.  By  my  ]>\a.n,  the  General 
Govemmeut  was  to  be  administered  by  a  Presi- 
dent-General, appointed  and  supported  by  the 
Crown,  and  a  General  Council,  to  be  chosei-  by 
the  representatives  of  the  people  of  the  several 
colonies,  met  in  the  respective  assemblies.  The 
plan  was  agreed  to  in  Congress,  but  the  assem- 
blies of  the  provinces  did  not  adopt  it,  as  they 
tiiought  there  was  too  much  prerogative  in  it, 
and  m  England  it  was  judged  to  have  too  much 
of  the  democratic.  The  diiferent  and  contrary 
reasons  of  dishke  to  my  plan  made  me  suspect 
that  it  was  really  the  true  medium,  and  I  am  still 
of  opinion  it  would  have  been  happy  for  both 
sides  if  it  had  been  adopted.  The  colonies  so 
un  ted  would  have  been  strong  enough  to  have 
defended  themselves ;  there  would  then  have 
been  no  need  of  troops  from  England;  of  coui-se 
the  subsequent  pretext  for  taxing  America,  aud 
also  the  bloody  contest  it  occasioned,  would  have 
been  avoided. 

It  is  singular  that  nearly  a  hundred  years 
ago,  Benjamin  Franklin,  looking  at  the 
difficulties  then  existing  between  the  colonies, 
should  have  suggested  a  plan  of  imion  similar 
to  that  now  proposed  to  us,  and  it  is  a  strong 
proof  of  the  wisdom  of  the  plan  now  before 
this  House,  that  seeing  the  difficulties  under 
which  the  other  colonies  labored  for  want 
of  a  central  power,  just  as  we  now  see 
them,  proposing  this  Confederation,  he  should 
have  declared  that  if  such  a  plan  had  been 
adopted  then  it  would  have  prevented  the 
severance  of  the  British  connection. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— This  scheme  is 
looked  upon  as  equal  to  independence. 

y.R.  MOllRIS— Is  that  the  opinion  of  the 
honorable  member?  I  think  that  far  different 
views  prevail  in  Britain.  In  1S5S,  when 
British  Columbia  was  erected  into  a  colony, 
it  was  found  then  that  the  Commons  of  Britain 
had  no  intention  of  surrendering  the  fair  pos- 
sessions of  Britain  on  this  continent,  and  Her 
Majesty  was  advised  to  say  : — 

Ucr  Majesty  hopes  that  the  new  colony  in  the 
Pacific  may  be  but  one  step  in  the  cai-eer  of 
steady  progress,  by  which  Her  .Majesty's  dominiou:i 
in  North  America  may  ultimately  be  peopled  in 
un  unbroken  chain  from  the  Atlantic  to  the  Paiitii 
by  a  loyal,  iniuslrioua  population  of  subjccta  oi 
llie  Hritih  Crown. 

(Hear,  hear.)  I  say,  sir,  that  there  13  no 
evidence  whatever  that  the  statesmen  of 
Britain  look  ui^n  this  great  scheme  aa  in- 
volving the  severance  of  our  connection  with 
the  Empire  ;  but  those  utterances,  as  read 
here  the  other  night  by  the  honorable  member 
I'roru  Montreal  ('ontre,  provo  directly  the  con- 
trary.     If  breaking    off   from    tho   Mother 


439 


Country  were  its  tendency,  then  I,  for  one, 
would  not  support  it,  nDr  would  it  be  sup- 
ported by  any  of  those  honorable  gentlemen 
who  so  strongly  advocate  it.  I  ain  not 
afraid  to  say  that  any  government  which 
dared  to  bring  down  such  a  measure  would  be 
hurled  from  their  places.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But,  Mr.  Speaker,  1  have  been  led  into  the 
discussion  of  this  question  of  coum  ctiou  with 
the  Mother  Country  at  much  greater  length 
than  I  had  intended,  by  the  suggestions  of  hon . 
members,  and  I  will  take  the  liberty  of  call- 
ing the  attention  of  the  House  to  a  passage 
from  a  work  [  have  already  rei'evred  to,  and 
in  which  we  find  an  exposition  of  the  policy 
which  governed  the  administration  of  Lord 
John  Rum  sell.  I  find  there  an  elaborate 
argument  to  prove  that  the  colonies  are  an 
advantage  to  Britain,  and  that  Britain  of 
course  is  an  advantage  to  the  colonies ;  aad 
on  the  mere  ground  of  material  interest,  if 
there  were  no  other — if  deeper  and  stronger 
ties  did  not  exist  as  they  do — I  feel  satisfied 
that  this  country  would  not  be  prepared  to 
take  the  first  step  towards  the  severance  of 
our  connection  with  Eoglaud,  and  the  less 
of  that  prestige  and  power  which  go  with 
every  British  subject  to  every  civilized  part 
of  the  globe,  enabling  him  to  say,  like  the 
old  Roaiaa,  "  I  am  a  British  citizen.''  Earl 
Grey  states  that  : — 

fhe  possession  of  a  number  of  steady  and 
faithful  allies,  in  various  quarters  of  the  trlobe, 
will  surely  be  admitted  to  add  greatly  to  the 
strength  of  any  nation ;  while  no  alliance  be- 
tween independent  states  can  be  so  close  and 
intimate  as  the  connection  which  unites  the 
colonies  to  the  United  Kingdom  as  parts  of  the 
Great  Britith  Empire.  Nor  ought  it  to  be  for- 
gotten, that  the  power  of  a  nation  does  not 
depend  merely  on  the  amount  of  physical  force  it 
can  command,  but  rests,  in  no  small  degree,  upon 
opinion  and  moral  influence,  iu  this  respect 
British  power  would  be  diminished  by  the  loss  of 
our  colonies,  to  a  decree  which  it  would  be 
difficult  to  estimate. 

Passing  on  a  little,  we  find  bin  saying  : — 

To  the  latter  [i.  e.  the  colonists]  it  is  no  doubt 
of  far  greater  importance  than  to  the  former, 
because,  while  still  forming  comparatively  small 
and  weak  communities,  they  enjoy,  iu  return  for 
their  allegiance  to  the  British  Crown,  all  the 
security  and  consideration  which  belongs  to  them 
as  members  of  one  of  the  most  powerful  states  in 
the  world.  No  foreign  power  ventures  to  attack 
or  interfere  with  the  smallest  of  them,  while 
every  colonist  carries  with  him  to  the  remotest 
quarters  of  the  globe  which  he  may  visit,  in  trad- 
ing or  other  pui'suits,  that  protection  which  the 
character  of  a  British  subject  everywhere  confers. 


(Hear,  hear.)  But  to  view  the  subject  in 
another  aspect.  I  believe  it  will  be  found 
that  all  the  conditions  are  combined  in  the 
scheme  now  before  us,  that  are  considered 
necessary  for  the  formation  on  a  permanent 
basis  of  a  Federative  union.  I  hold  in  my 
band  a  book  of  some  note  on  Rppresenta- 
tive  Government,  by  John  Stuart  Mill, 
and  I  find  that  he  lays  down  three  condi- 
tions as  applicable  to  the  unioQ  of  in- 
dependent states,  and  which,  by  parity  of 
reasoning,  aie  applicable  to  provinces  which 
seek  to  have  a  closer  alliance  with  each 
other,  and  aiso,  thereby,  a  closer  alliance 
with  the  Mother  Country.  The  conditi(ms 
he  lays  down  are  first, — 

That  there  should  be  a  sufficient  amount  of 
mutual  sympathy  among  the  populations. 

And  he  states  that  the  sympathies  which  they 
should  have  iu  common  should  be — 

Those  of  race,  language,  religion,  and,  above 
all,  of  political  institutions,  as  conducing  most  to 
a  feeling  of  identity  of  political  interest. 

Hon   Mr.  HOLTON— Hear,  hoar. 

Mr.  morris — We  possess  that  string 
tie  of  mutual  sympathy  in  a  high  degree. 
We  have  the  same  systems  of  government, 
and  the  same  political  institutions.  We  are 
part  of  the  same  great  Empire,  and  that  is 
the  real  tie  which  will  bind  us  together  in 
future  tiuje.  The  second  condition  laid 
down  is : — 

That  the  separate  states  be  not  so  powerful  as 
to  be  able  to  rely  for  protection  against  foreign 
encroachment  on  their  individual  strencrth. 

O 

Tbat  is  a  condition  which  applies  most  forci- 
bly in  our  case.  (Hear,  hear.)  1'he  third 
condition  is : — 

That  there  be  not  a  very  marked  inequality  of 
strength  among  the  several  contracting  states. 

Hun.  Mk.  DORION—Plear,  hear. 
Mr.  morris — Allow  me  to  proceed  with 
the  extract : — 

They  cannot,  indeed,  be  exactly  equal  in 
resources;  in  all  fedentions  theie  will  be  a 
gradation  of  power  among  the  meml>ers ;  some 
will  be  more  populous,  rich,  and  civilized  than 
others.  There  is  a  wide  difference  in  wealth 
between  New  York  and  Rhode  Island. 

Just  as  ti:ore  is  betweea  Canada  and  Prince 
Edward  Island.  J  trust  I  have  satisfied  ray 
hon.  friend  from  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr. 
DORION),  that  Mr.  Mill's  views  aie  entirely 
applicable  to  our  position.  (He.ir,  hear.) 
I  now  proceed  to  state  my  belief  that  we 
will  find  great  advantages  in  the  future,  in 


440 


the  possession  of  a  strong  Central  Govern- 
ment asid  local  or  municipal  parliaments, 
such  as  are  proposed  fur  our  aiioption.  I 
believe  the  scheme  v?ill  be  found  in  fact  and 
in  practice — by  its  combination  of  the  better 
features  of  the  American  system  with  those 
of  the  Britii-h  Constitution — to  have  vei^ 
f;reat  practical  advantages.  I  shiill  read  an 
extract  from  an  artit-Ie  in  the  London 
Times,  written  in  lfc58,  bearing  on  this 
subject,  and  which  brings  very  clearly  into 
view  the  distinction  between  the  system 
which  has  been  proposed  for  our  adoption, 
and  that  which  has  been  adopted  iu  the 
States.  The  great  weakness  of  the  American 
system  has  lain  in  the  tact  that  the  several 
Btutc3,  on  entering  the  union,  claimed  inde- 
pendent jurisdiction  ;  that  they  demitted  to 
the  Central  Government  certain  poweis,  and 
that  they  claimed .  equal  and  sovereign 
powers  with  regard  to  everything  not  so 
delegated  and  demitted.  The  weaknesses 
and  difficulties  of  that  system  have  been 
avoide '  iu  the  project  now  before  us,  and 
we  have  the  central  power  with  defined  and 
sovereign  powers,  and  the  local  parliaments 
with  their  defined  and  delegated  powers,  but 
subordinated  to  the  central  power.  The 
article  says  : — 

It  is  quite  clear  that  the  Federal  Constitution 
of  the  United  States  ol  America  forms  a  precedent 
which  cannot  possibly  be  followed  in  its  principles 
or  details  by  the  united  colonies,  so  long  as  they 
remain  part  of  the  dominions  of  the  Imperial 
Cniwii.  The  principle  of  the  American  Feder- 
ation is,  that  each  is  a  sovereign  state,  which 
consents  to  delegate  to  a  central  authority  a 
portion  of  its  sovereign  power,  leaving  the  re- 
mainder which  is  not  so  delegated  absolute  and 
intact  in  its  own  hands.  This  is  not  the  position 
of  the  colonies,  each  of  which,  instead  of  being 
an  isolated  sovereign  state,  is  an  integral  part  of 
the  British  Empire.  They  cannot  delegate  then- 
sovereign  authority  to  a  central  government, 
because  they  do  not  possess  the  sovereign  author- 
ity to  delegate.  The  only  alternative  aa  it  seems 
to  us  would  be  to  adopt  a  course  exactly  the 
contrary  of  that  which  the  United  States  adopted, 
and  instead  of  taking  for  their  motto  £/'  Pluribus 
Ununi,  to  invert  it  by  saying  Jn  Uno  Plura. 

(Hear,  hear.) 

Hun  Mr.  UOLTON— What  arc  you 
reading  from  ? 

Mr.  MORRIS — From  the  London  Time.'^, 
and  I  quote  the  article  on  account  of  the 
force  i)f  the  leniarks  themselves,  apart  from 
the  stauding  of  the  jounuil  iu  which  tliey 
appear : — 


The  first  steps  towards  a  Federation  of  the 
American  Colonies  would  "thus  be  to  form  them 
all  into  one  state,  to  give  that  state  a  completely 
organized  government,  and  then  to  delegate  to 
each  of  the  colonies  out  of  which  that  great 
state  is  formed,  such  powers  of  local  government 
as  may  be  thought  necessary,  reserving  to  the 
Central  Government  all  such  powers  as  are  not 
expressly  delegated.  The  Government  of  New 
Zealand  forms  a  precedent  well  worthy  the  atten- 
tion of  those  who  are  undertaking  this  arduous 
negotiation. 

And  I  cannot  doubt  that  the  framers  of  this 
Constitution  have  studied  the  precedent  aa 
well  of  the  proposed  (.!onstitution  of  Austra- 
lia, as  that  of  the  Constitution  of  New  Zea- 
land which  has  been  in  use  lor  ten  years 
past. 

Hon.  xMr.  MOLTON— How  does  it  work  ? 

Mr.  morris — I  have  not  been  there — 
(laughter)  —  but  I  know  that  from  a  small 
population  of  26,000  in  all  the  New  Zealand 
provinces  when  that  Constitution  was  given 
them,  they  have  risen  in  ten  years  to  a  po- 
pulation of  250,000 — indicating  certainly 
growth  and  pi  ogress. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON — As  we  have  grown 
in  spite  of  that  t.'rribly  bad  union  you  wish 
to  do  away  willi. 

Mr.  morris — True,  we  have  grown  and 
progressed  under  the  present  union.  But 
the  hon.  gentleman  knows  the  heart-burn- 
ings we  have  had  in  the  past.  I  have  not 
been  in  Parliament  so  long  as  that  honorable 
gentleman.  But  I  recollect,  when  1  first 
took  a  seat  in  this  House,  the  state  of  excite- 
ment which  then  prevailed,  and  which  con- 
tinued, making  government  practic^Jly  im- 
possible. For  we  had  governments  maiutaiu- 
ing  themselves  session  after  session  by 
majorities  of  one  or  two  — shewing  that  it 
was  impossible  for  any  government  to  con- 
duct public  aflFairs  with  that  dignity  and 
success  with  which  a  governmint  ought  to 
conduct  them.  But,  as  i  have  stated,  1 
think  the  Conference  has  been  exceedingly 
happy  in  the  plau  they  have  submitted  lor 
our  adoption  .\.  community  of  Bi  itish  free- 
men as  we  are,  deliberately  hurveyinj^  our 
pa.-^t  as  well  as  our  present  position,  and  look- 
ing forward  to  our  future,  wo  in  efl'eot  re.-olve 
that  we  will  adhere  to  the  protection  of  the 
British  Crown  ;  that  we  will  toll  the 
Goi-DWIN  S.MlTH  8choul — thchc  who  are 
crying  out  for  cutting  oflf  the  colonies — 
that  wo  will  cling  to  I  ho  old  Mother  l^and 
— (hear,  hear) — we  dosiio  to  maintain  our 
connection;  we  have  no  desire  to  withdraw 


441 


ourselves  from  that  protection  we  have  so 
long  enjoyed;  but  we  desire,  while  remain- 
ing under  that  protection,  to  do  all  that 
lies  in  our  power  for  our  self-defence,  and 
for  the  development  of  all  the  great  interests 
which  Providence  has  committed  to  our 
trust;  and  we  seek  at  the  hands  of  the  Bri- 
tish Parliament  sucli  lesrislation  as  will  enable 
us  to  accomplish  these  great  ends  for  the 
whole  of  British  America.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Why,  what  a  domain  do  we  possess  I  We 
have  over  three  millions  of  square  miles  of 
territory — large  enough,  certainly,  for  the 
expansion  of  the  races  which  inhabit  this 
country;  and  our  desire  is,  in  the  language 
of  a  late  colonial  minister — lanaruage  which, 
I  believe,  well  expresses  the  views  and  senti- 
ments of  the  people  of  all  tliese  provinces — 
we  would  approach  the  British  people,  the 
British.  Government,  and  our  Sovereign,  with 
this  language :  "  We  desire,  by  your  aid, 
with  your  sanction  and  permission,  to  attempt 
to  add  another  community  of  Christian  free- 
men to  those  by  which  Grreat  Britain  confides 
the  records  of  her  Empire,  not  to  pyramids 
and  obelisks,  but  to  states  and  communities, 
whose  history  will  be  written  in  her  lan- 
guage." That  was  the  language  of  the 
Colonial  Secretary,  Sir  Bulwer  Lytton, 
when  he  proposed  and  carried  out  the  setting 
off  of  a  new  colony  on  the  Pacific  shore — 
language  certainly  which  indicated  a  firm 
and  sure  reliance  in  the  power  and  eificacy 
of  British  institutions — that  these  institu- 
tions would  be  found  capable  of  all  the 
expansion  requisite  to  meet  the  circumstances 
of  a  new  country,  and  of  any  body  of  British 
freemen  to  whom  the  care  of  these  institu- 
tions maybe  entrusted.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
I  fear  I  have  been  tempted  to  forget  the 
excellent  example  of  my  honorable  friend 
from  Lambton.     (Cries  of  "No,  no," 


"   (< 


go 


on.")  I  desire  very  briefly  to  notice  two  or 
tliree  immediate  advantages  which,  in  my 
judgment,  would  be  derived  from  the 
consummation,  under  one  central  power 
with  local  municipal  parliaments,  of  a  union 
of  the  Canadas  with  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
Let  us  glance  at  what  is  their  position,  in 
relation  to  the  great  military  power  which 
is  rising  on  the  other  side  of  the  lines.  Let 
us  see  what  they  are  thinking  of  us  there. 
One  of  their  ercinent  statesmen  suggested 
some  years  ago,  that  they  should  cultivate 
our  acquaintance,  while  we  were  still 
"  incurious  of  our  destiny."  But  we  have 
passed  that  state.     We  have  become  curious 

57 


of  our  destiny,  and  are  seeking,  as  far  as  we 
can,  to  place  it  on  a  sure  and  certain  basis. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Here  is  the  view  taken  of 
our  position  by  an  American  writer : — 

They  have  now  no  comprehensive  power 
that  embraces  the  interests  of  all — that  acta 
on  the  prosperity  of  the  seacoast  and  interior 
— of  commerce  and  agriculture  whera  they  are 
seemingly  rivals — that  gives  uniformity  in  tariffs 
and  taxes,  and  the  encouragement  that  shall  be 
entrusted  to  the  fishing,  mining  and  other  great 
interests. 

That  is  a  view  of  the  position  of  these 
provinces  to  which  I  commend  to  the  attention 
of  my  hon,  friends  from  Chateauguay  and 
Hochelaga.  I  ask,  is  it  not  a  correct  view  ? 
Is  not  that  the  position  in  which  we  have 
long  been  ?  And  I  believe  the  result  of  this 
union  will  be  to  do  away  with  that  state  of 
things.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  believe  that  when 
these  colonies  are  combined,  acting  in 
concert,  and  quickened  and  invigorated  by  a 
feeling  of  mutual  dependence  and  interest, 
the  tendency  will  be  to  increase  their  wealth 
and  manufactures,  and  general  strength. 
And.  sir,  I  am  satisfied  one  of  the  great 
advantages  cf  this  union  will  be  found  in  this 
that  we  will  be  raised  above  our  sectionalisms, 
and  come  to  feel  and  to  act  as  the  citizens 
of  a  great  country,  with  destinies  committed 
to  us  such  as  may  well  evoke  the  energies  of 
a  great  people.  But  I  desire  to  point  out 
another  practical  advantage  which,  I  think, 
is  of  no  mean  or  slight  moment ;  and  it 
is  this : — Bound  as  we  are  to  England, 
by  the  closest  ties,  and  yet  enjoying  our  own 
government,  England  is  still  compelled  to 
act  for  us  in  all  matters  of  an  international 
nature.  But,  when  we  have  for  all  these 
British  provinces  one  General  Government, 
able  to  take  an  oversight  of  the  whole,  and 
to  attend  to  all  their  various  interests,  we 
will  be  able  to  represent  to  Britain  on 
behalf  of  the  whole,  with  a  force  and  power 
we  have  never  before  been  able  to  use,  what 
these  interests  are  ;  we  will  be  able  to  press 
them  home  on  the  attention  of  British 
statesmen  in  such  a  manner  as  will  lead  them 
to  appreciate,  and  seek  to  protect  those  in- 
terests in  their  negotiations  with  foreign 
powers.  I  would  allude,  as  an  illustration 
of  what  I  mean,  to  the  Reciprocity  Treaty, 
and  I  cannot  refrain  from  reading  a  very 
striking  extract  from  a  report  presented  to 
the  United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
in  18t)2,  from  the  Committee  of  Commerce  on 
the  Reciprocity  Treaty.     I  ask  the  attention 


442 


of  the  House  to  this  extract,  as  shewing  how 
the  United  States  have  been  able  to  take 
advantage  of  our  isolated  condition — our  want 
of  central  power  and  authority — to  gain  for 
themselves  advantages  in  the  negotiation  of 
that  treaty,  such  as  they  could  not  have  ob- 
tained or  even  sought,  had  we  been  in  a 
position  to  present  all  the  advantages,  in 
negotiations  with  the  United  States,  which 
Canada  and  the  Maritime  Provinces  as  a 
whole  could  present.  Instead  of  the  Ameri- 
can statesmen  having  to  negotiate  with  the 
separate  governments  of  separate  provinces, 
they  would  have  to  negotiate  with  the  com- 
bined interests  of  British  North  America. 
I  read  this  extract  as  a  very  striking  one, 
and  as  entitled,  on  account  of  the  source 
from  which  it  come?,  to  some  weight.  In 
the  report  I  have  referred  to,  the  natural 
results  of  the  treaty  and  of  its  abrogation 
are  thus  spoken  of  :  — 

g"A  great  and  mutually  beneficial  increase  in  our 
commerce  with  Canada  was  the  natural  and  pri- 
mary result  of  the  treaty.  Many  causes  of  irrita- 
tion were  removed,  and  a  large  accession  to  our 
trade  was  acquired,  through  the  treaty,  with  the 
Maritime  Provinces.  Arguments  founded  upon 
the  results  of  the  treaty  as  a  whole,  with  the  vari- 
ous provinces,  have  a  valid  and  incontrovertible 
application  against  the  unconditional  and  complete 
abrogation  of  the  treaty,  so  far  as  it  refers  to 
provinces  against  which  no  complaint  is  made. 
The  isolated  and  disconnected  condition  of  the 
various  governments  of  these  provinces  to  each 
other,  and  the  ubsence  of  their  real  responsibility 
to  any  common  centre,  are  little  understood.  No 
fault  id  found  with  the  acts  of  Newfoundland, 
Prince  r.dward  Island,  Nova  Scotia  and  New 
Brunswick.  These  separate  provinces  and  that 
of  Canada  have  each  a  separate  tariff  and  legis- 
lature, and  neither  of  them  is  accountable  to  or 
for  any  other.  An  abrogation  of  the  treaty,  as  a 
whole,  would  therefore  be  a  breach  of  good  faith 
towards  the  other  provinces,  even  if  it  were  ox 
pedient  to  adopt  such  a  course  towards  Canada, 
out  no  advantages  gained  by  the  treaty  with  the 
Maritime  Provinces  can  be  admitted  as  otfsets  in 
favor  of  Canada.  Each  province  made  its  own 
bargain,  and  gave  and  received  its  separate  equi- 
valent. 

(Hear,  hear.)  This  is  an  instance  of  some 
moment,  and  I  believo  the  same  principles 
will  be  found  to  apply  to  all  those  ques- 
tions on  which,  in  the  future  history  of 
this  Confi!d<;ration,  it  will  be  found  ucccs- 
Bary  to  confer  with  foreign  govorumenta, 
through  the  Mother  (Ji.uiitry,  No  longer 
detached  and  isolat'.d  from  each  oliier,  we 
will  bo  able  to  present  a  combined  front, 
and    to    urge    the  advantajjca    which    may 


be  derived  from  the  exhaustiess  fisheries  of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  as  well  as  those 
aflfordcd  by  Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
defence  question  has  been  alluded  to  very 
frequently  in  this  debate.  I  think  there 
really  cannot  be  a  question  that  it  would  be 
for  the  advantage,  not  only  of  Britain,  but  of 
each  one  of  these  provinces,  that  on  such 
subjects  as  the  militia,  and  on  all  kindred 
questions,  such  as  those  relating  to  aliens, 
the  observance  of  neutrality  and  like  sub- 
jects, there  should  be  a  general  and  uniform 
action  ;  that,  seeing  the  action  of  any  one  of 
the  colonies  might  involve  the  parent  state 
in  war,  there  should  not  be  separate  and 
distinct  action,  but  one  uniform  action,  on 
all  that  cla-ss  of  national  and  international 
subjects,  throughout  the  whole  ot  the 
British  Provinces.  I  cannot  help  thinking 
that  in  practice  an  immense  advantage  would 
be  derived  from  the  introduction  of  such  a 
system.  It  is  not  my  forte,  as  that  of  some 
hon.  gentlemen,  to  speak  with  regard  to  the 
defence  question.  There  are  other  hon. 
members  who  understand  that  subject 
thoroughly,  and  will  no  doubt  deal  with  it  in 
a  satisfactory  manner.  But  I  cannot  help 
thinking  that  a  uniform  system  of  militia 
and  marine  for  British  North  America  would  . 
be  powerfully  felt  in  the  history  of  this  con- 
tinent. 

Hon,  Mr.  HOLTON — Are  we  to  have  a 
navy  ? 

Mil.  MORRIS— The  hon.  gentleman  no 
doubt  listened  with  interest  to  the  speech  of 
the  President  of  the  Council,  and  he  might 
have  learned  from  that,  that  wo  had  a  navy 
of  which  any  country  might  be  proud,  de- 
voted to  the  pursuits  of  honest  industry, 
and  which  causes  us  to  rank  even  in 
our  infancy  as  the  third  maritime  power 
in  the  world.  And  should  the  time  ot  need 
come — as  I  trust  it  never  may — I  am  satis- 
fied that  in  the  Gulf,  on  the  St.  Lawrence, 
and  on  the  lakes,  there  would  be  enough  of 
bold  men  and  brave  hearts  to  man  that  navy. 
(Hear,  hear.)  1  would  further  remark,  that 
under  the  proposed  system,  local  interests 
would  bo  much  better  cared  for.  1  am 
satisfied  the  local  interests  of  all  the  separate 
provinces  would  bo  better  cared  for,  if  their 
legislatures  were  divested  of  those  largo  sub- 
jects of  general  interest  which  now  absorb 
— and  necessarily  so — so  much  of  our  time 
and  attention.  (Hear,  hoar.)  I  will  now 
only  luoiitioii  briolly  one  or  two  incidental 
advantages  which  I  believo  will  be  found  to 
accrue  in  the   future  from  our  position  as 


443 


united  provinces  of  tlie  Britisli  Empire.  I 
will  not  at  this  late  hour  of  the  night,  as  I  see 
the  House  is  wearied — (cries  of  '■'■  No,  no," 
"  Go  on.") — I  will  not  quote  any  fifjures  to 
shew  the  extent  of  intercolonial  trade  that  will 
spring  up  with  the  Maritime  Provinces  and, 
with  the  West  India  provinces.  Some  years 
ago  there  was,  as  mercantile  men  well  know, 
a  large  trade  conducted  with  the  West  India 
Islands,  which,  from  various  circumstances, 
has  almost  entirely  ceased.  I  believe  that, 
when  the  provinces  are  united,  not  only  will 
.a  large  trade  spring  up  in  those  agricultural 
and  other  products  which  are  now  supplied 
to  the  Lower  Provinces  from  the  United 
States,  but  a  trade  will  also  be  established 
with  the  West  India  Islands.  Some  time 
ago  I  took  the  trouble  to  look  into  the  figures, 
and  I  was  surprised  to  find  how  large  a  trade 
was  conducted  twenty-five  years  ago  with 
those  islands;  and  1  believe  that,  by  carry- 
ing out  this  union,  we  will  have  facilities 
for  establishing  such  commercial  relations  as 
will  lead  to  the  reopening  of  that  valuable 
trade. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— You  should  bring 
in  the  West  India  Islands  also. 

Mr.  MOPtKiS— The  hon.  gentleman  is 
very  anxious  to  extend  the  Confederation. 
(Laughter.)  I  have  known  him  for  long 
years  as  a  Federalist,  and  I  believe  he  is  only 
sorry  that  we  do  not  go  a  little  faster.  I  am 
satisfied  that  when  Confederation  is  accom- 
plished, he  will  be  one  of  its  most  hearty 
supporters.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  would  now, 
Mr.  Speaker,  desire  to  quote  a  few  words 
from  a  lecture  delivered  some  years  ago  by 
PrincipalDAWSON,  of  Montreal,  a  well-knowa 
Nova  Scotian,  and  who  is  distinguished  for 
his  thorough  acquaintance  with  the  Maritime 
Provinces.     He  says  : — 

Their  progress  in  population  and  wealth  is  slow, 
iu  comparison  with  that  of  Western  America, 
though  equal  to  the  average  of  that  of  the  Amer- 
ican (Jnion,  and  more  rapid  than  that  of  the  older 
states.  Their  agriculture  is  rapidly  improving, 
maaufacturing  and  mining  enterprises  are  extend- 
ing tLemselves,  and  railways  are  being  built  to 
connect  them  with  the  more  inland  parts  of  the 
continent.  Like  Great  Britain,  they  possess  im- 
portant minerals  in  which  the  neighboring  parts 
of  the  continent  are  deficient,  and  enjoy  the  ut- 
most facilities  for  commercial  pursuits.  Ultima- 
tely, therefore,  they  must  have  with  the  United 
States,  Canada  and  the  fur  countries,  the  same 
commercial  relations  that  Britain  maintains  with 
western,  central,  and  northarn  Europe.  Above 
all,  they  form  the  great  natural  oceanic  termina- 
tion of  the  great  valley  of  the  St.  Lawrence ;  and 


although  its  commerce  has  hitherto,  by  the  skill 
and  industry  of  its  neighbours,  been  drawn  across 
the  natural  barrier  which  Providence  has  placed 
between  it  and  the  seaports  of  the  United  States, 
it  must  ultimately  take  its  natural  channel  ;  and 
then  not  only  will  the  cities  on  the  St.  Lawrence 
be  united  by  the  strongest  common  interests,  but 
they  will  be  bound  to  Acadia  by  ties  more  close 
than  any  merely  political  union.  The  great 
thoroughfares  to  the  rich  lands  and  noble  scenery 
of  the  west,  and  thence  to  the  sea-breezes  and 
salt-water  of  the  Atlantic,  and  to  the  great  seats 
of  industry  and  art  in  the  old  world,  will  pass 
along  the  St.  Lawrence,  and  through  the  Lower 
Provinces.  The  surplus  agricultural  produce  of 
Canada  will  find  its  nearest  consumers  among  the 
miners,  shipwrights,  mariners,  and  fishermen  of 
Acadia  ;  and  they  will  send  back  the  treasures  of 
their  mines  and  of  their  sea.  This  ultimate  fusion 
of  all  the  populations  extending  along  this  great 
river,  valley  and  estuary,  and  the  establishment 
throughout  its  course  of  one  of  the  principal 
streams  of  American  commerce,  seems  in  the  na- 
ture of  things  inevitable  ;  and  there  is  already  a 
large  field  for  the  profitable  employment  of  lab- 
orers and  capital  in  accelerating  this  desirable 
result. 

Such,  I  believe,  Mr.  Speaker,  will  be  found 
to  be  the  results  of  the  steps  now  being 
taken.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  conclusion,  I 
would  desire  to  call  attention  to  the  advan- 
tages we  will  enjoy  iu  consequence  of  our 
being  able  to  do  something  to  secure  the 
development  of  the  immense  tract  of  country 
lying  beyond  us — Central  British  North 
America,  popularly  known  as  the  Gri'eat 
North  West.  If  Canadians  are  to  stand 
still  and  allow  American  energy  and  enter- 
prise to  press  on  as  it  is  doing  towards  that 
country,  the  inevitable  result  must  be  that 
that  great  section  of  territory  will  be  taken 
possession  of  by  the  citizens  of  the  neighbor- 
ing states.  The  question  is  one  of  great 
interest  to  the  people  of  Canada.  Years 
ago  Canadian  industry  pushed  its  way  up 
the  valley  of  the  Ottawa  to  the  G-reut  North 
West.  In  1798  the  North-West  Company 
had  in  its  employment  not  less  than  12,000 
persons  ;  and  there  is  no  reason  in  the  world 
why  the  trade  which  was  then  carried  on 
should  not  be  reestablished  between  the 
North-West  and  Canada.  No  insuperable 
obstacles  stand  in  the  way.  A  practicable 
route  exists  w'nch  can  be  used  by  land  and 
by  water,  and  there  is  no  reason  why  the 
necessary  steps  should  not  be  taken  to  secure 
the  development  of  the  resources  of  that 
country  and  making  them  tributary  to 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  think  it  was  a 
wise  foresight  on  the  part  of  the  gentlemen 


444 


who  prepared  the  plan  now  before  us,  that 
they  laid  this  down  as  one  of  the  principal 
features  of  the  scheme — that  they  regarded 
the  development  of  the  North-West  as 
necessary  for  the  security  and  the  promotion 
of  the  best  interests  of  British  North 
America.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  the  House  will 
bear  with  me,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  would  ask 
hon.  members  to  consider  for  a  moment  the 
extent  of  the  territory  there  possessed.  An 
American  writer,  who  estimates  it  at 
2,500,000  square  miles,  puts  it  in  this 
way  :— 

How  large  is  that?  It  is  fifteen  and  a  half 
times  larger  than  the  vState  of  California;  about 
thirty-eight  times  as  large  as  the  State  of  New- 
York  ;  nearly  twice  as  large  as  the  ihirty-one 
States  of  the  Union ;  and,  if  we  omit  the  territory 
of  Nebraska,  as  large  as  all  our  states  and  terri- 
tories combined. 

Between  the  settled  portions  of  Canada  and 
the  Red  Kiver  country,  there  are  areas  of 
arable  land,  ranging  from  200,000  acres 
downwards,  with  facilities  for  opening  up 
communication  by  latd  aud  water ;  and  I 
do  not  wonder  that  the  late  Sir  GtEOKGE 
Simpson,  while  making  his  celebrated 
journey  round  the  world,  in  passing  from 
Montreal  to  lied  River,  and  thence  overland 
to  the  Pacific,  should  be  struck  with  the 
extraordinary  advantages  of  this  country, 
and  that  on  one  occasion,  when  surveying 
the  magnificent  expanse  of  inland  lake  and 
river  navigation,  in  the  midst  of  a  fertile 
country,  he  should  exclaim — 

Is  it  too  much  for  the  eye  of  philanthropy  to 
discern  through  the  vista  of  futurity  this  noble 
stream,  connecting,  as  it  does,  the  fertile  shores 
of  two  spacious  lakes,  with  crowded  steamboats 
on  its  bosom,  and  populous  towns  on  its  borders  ? 

(Applauj^e.)  Sir  George  Simpson  was 
not  a  man  likely  to  be  carried  away 
by  mere  impulse;  but  viewing  the  prospect 
before  him,  he  could  not  refrain  from 
breaking  forth  in  the  glowing  language  1 
have  quoted.  Then  glance  for  a  moment 
at  the  Saskatchewan,  the  Assiniboine  and 
the  Red  Jliver  country,  witli  the  Red  River 
settlement  of  10,000  people,  forming  the 
nucleus  for  a  future  province — a  nucleu.s 
around  which  immigration  could  be  drawn 
BO  as  to  build  up  in  that  distant  region  a 
powerful  section  of  the  Couft;deration.  It 
is  a  country  Avhich  cmhraoL"^  ;>(;u,Oi)()  sqii;ire 
miles,  and  the  Red  River,  Liikf  \Vinnii)eg, 
and  tho  Saskatehewau    afford   a   navigable 


water  line  of  1,400  miles.  And  what  is  the 
character  of  the  country  ?  On  this  point  I 
would  quote  Professor  Hind,  who  describes 
the  valley  of  the  Red  River  and  a  large 
portion  of  the  country  on  its  affluent,  the 
Assiniboine,  as  "a  paradise  of  feitility." 
He  could  speak  of  it  in  no  other  terms 
"  than  of  astonishment  and  admiration."  He 
adds  that  as  an  agricultural  country  the 
character  of  the  soil  could  not  be  surpassed, 
affirming  in  proof  of  this  assertion  : — 

That  all  kinds  of  farm  produce  common  in 
Canada  succeed  admirably  in  the  District  of 
Assiniboia,  and  that  as  an  agricultural  country 
it  will  one  day  rank  among  the  most  distin- 
guished. 

Nor  arc  there  any  difficulties  of  climate.  If 
any  lion,  member  will  take  the  trouble  to 
examine  that  excellant  work  in  our  library, 
Blodyett's  Climatoloijy,  he  will  find  it  stated 
as  having  been  '•  demonstrated  that  the 
climate  of  the  North- West  coast,  and  of  the 
interior  towards  Lake  Winnipeg,  is  quite  the 
reverse  of  that  experienced  in  the  same 
latitude  on  the  Atlantic,  and  is  highl, 
favorable  to  occupation  and  settlement." 
(Hear,  hear.)  Mr.  Speaker,  I  desire  now 
to  place  before  the  House  the  extent  of  the 
territory  we  possess  in  the  Atlantic  and 
Pacific  Provinces.  The  Atlantic  Provinces 
comprise  Canada  East,  with  an  are.i  of 
201,980  square  miles ;  Canada  West,  148,- 
832  ;  New  Brunswick,  27,700  ;  Nova  Scotia, 
18,746;  Prince  Edward  Island,  2,134; 
Newfoundland,  o5,013 — together  4^5,314 
square  miles,  to  which  add  the  territory  of 
Labrador,  5,000  miles,  making  a  grand  total 
of  410,314  square  miles,  embracing  a  popu- 
lation of  something;  like  4,000,000  of  soul.-;. 
The  Pacific  Provinces  are  British  Columbia, 
containing  200,000  square  miles,  and  Van- 
couver's Island,  with  12,000  S(juare  miles ; 
and  there  is  the  territory  of  Hudson's  Bay 
(including  Central  British  North  America), 
with  2,700,000  square  miles.  (Hear,  hear.) 
1  desire  now,  sir,  to  thank  the  House  for 
the  patience  with  which  hon.  members  have 
li.stencd  to  my  remarks.  I  rose  at  a  late 
hour  in  the  evening,  and  seeing  that  the 
House  was  wearied  when  I  commenced,  I 
did  nut  wish  to  prolong  the  debate.  I  have 
thus  shortened  very  much  tho  remarks  1 
intended  to  oiler,  and  have  treated  only 
hurriedly  and  casually  on  many  points  which 
might  have  cngig'tl  lurth<  r  aitcntion  under 
other  circumstaines.  I  di^'sire  to  express 
my  confident  opinion,  before  closing,   that 


445 


this  great  scheme  is  not  one  which  ought  to 
be  factiously  met.     For  if  ever  there  was  a 
plan   submitted    to    any    legislature    which 
deserved  to  be  treated  with  an   avoidance  of 
party  feeling,  it  is  this.     (Hear,  hear.)     It 
is  evident  that  in   the  House  there  are  a 
large  majority  in  favor  of  the  plan,  and  while 
it  is  their  duty  to  concede  to  the  minority — 
what  is    the     right   of    the    minority — the 
opportunityof  stating  their   objections  to  it, 
it  is,  on  the  other  hand,  an  evidence  of  the 
strongest  kind  that  the  majority,  in  support- 
ing this  measure,  believe  they  are  doing  the 
best  for  their  country,  and  that  it  is  a  measure 
which  meets  the   popular  sanction  and  ap- 
proval, when   they  avow  by  their  own  act 
their    readiness    to    return    to     the    people 
for    their    approval  of  the  steps  they  have 
thought  proper  to  take.     (Hear,  hear.)     It 
is   the    duty    of    those    who    are    in    favor 
of    the    scheme — and    I  believe   there    are 
a   very    large     majority     who    see     in     it 
advantages  of  the  most  substantial   kind — I 
am  firmly  persuaded  that  it  is  a  duty  they 
owe  to  those  who  sent  them  to  th's   House, 
it  is  a  duty  they  owe  to  the  country,  it  is  a 
duty  they  owe  to  the  great  empire  of  which 
we  form  a  part,  to  bring  this  scheme  to  a 
speedy   consummation.     I  am   glad,  sir,  in 
taking   a   retrospect  of  the    three   eventful 
years  during  which  I  have  had  a  seat  in  this 
House,  to  reflect   that  on  the  first  occasion 
I  had  the  honor  of  addressing  the  House,  in 
1861,  I  declared  myself  in  favor  of  an  analo- 
gous scheme  to  that  we  are  now  discu-sing ; 
that  I  then  expressed  myself  in  favor  of  a 
general  government   of  the    British   North 
American    Provinces,    with    separate  local 
legislatures,  in   the    following;   terms,  when 
speaking  of  the  question  of  representation 
by  population  : — 

He  had  confideuce  that  men  would  be  found  able 
to  meet  the  question  fairly  and  to  come  down 
with  a  measure  satisfactory  to  the  country.  It 
might  be  that  that  measure  would  be  one  which 
would  bring  together  the  dilFerent  provinces  of 
British  North  America  into  a  union,  formed  on 
such  a  basis  as  would  give  lo  the  people  of  each 
pvoviuce  the  right  to  manage  their  own  internal 
affairs,  while  at  the  same  time  the  whole  should 
provide  for  the  management  of  matters  of  common 
concern,  so  as  to  secure  the  consolidation  of  the 
Britannic  power  on  this  continent. 

I  have  held  this  opinion  ever  since  I  have 
had  the  capacity  of  thinking  of  the  destiny 
of  this  country,  and  I  would  beg  to  be 
allowed  further  to  quote  language  I  used  in 
1859.     Reviewing  at  that  time^  as  I  have 


done  hurriedly  to-night,  the  extent  of  our 
possessions,  and  the  great  advantages  we 
would  be  able  to  obtain  by  the  union  now 
proposed  to  be  carried  into  eflFect,  I  spoke 
as  follows,  in  a  lecture  on  the  Hudson  Bay 
and  Pacific  territory,  delivered  in  Montreal : 

With  two  powerful  colonies  on  the  Pacific,  with 
another  or  more  in  the  region  between  Canada 
and  the   Rocky  Mountains,  with  a  railway  and  a 
telegraph  linking  the  Atlantic  with  the  Pacific, 
and   our    inland  and    ocean    channels    of    trade 
becoming  a  great  thoroughfare  of  travel  and  of 
commerce,  who  can  doubt  of  the  reality  and  the 
accuracy  of  the  vision  which  rises  distinctly  and 
clearly  defined  before  us,  as  the  great  Britannic 
Empire  of  the  North  stands  out  in  all  its  gran- 
deur, and  in  all  the  brilliancy  of  its  magnificent 
future  !     Some  hard  matter-of-fact  thinker,  some 
keen  utilitarian,  some  plodding  man  of  business, 
may  point  the  finger  of  scorn  at  us  and  deem  all 
this  but  an  empty  shadow — but  the  fleeting  fan- 
tasy of  a  dreamer.     Be  it  so.     Time  is  a  worker 
of  miracles — ay,  and  of  sober  realities,  too  ;  but 
when  we  look  east  and  west  and  north  ;  when  we 
cause   the   goodly  band  of  the  north-men  from 
Acadia,  and  Canada,  and  the  North-West,  and  the 
Columbia,  and  the  Britain  of  the  Pacific,  to  defile 
before  us,  who  are  the  masters  of  so  vast  a  ter- 
ritory, of  a  heritage  of  such  surpassing  value  ;  and 
when  we  remember  the  rapid  rise  into  greatness, 
as  one  of  the  powers  of  the  earth,  of  the  former 
American  colonies,    and  look   back   over    their 
progress,  who  can  doubt  of  the  future  of  these 
British  Provinces,  or  of  the  entire  and  palpable 
reality  of  that  vision  which  rises  so  grandly  before 
us  of  this  Great  British  Empire  of  the  North — 
of  that  new  English-speaking  nation  which  will  at 
one  and  no  distant  day  people  all  this  northern 
continent — a  Russia,  as  has  been  well  said,  it  may 
be,  but  yet  an  English  Russia,  with  free  institu- 
tions, with  high  civilization,  and  entire  freedom 
of  speech  and  thought — with  its  face  to  the  south 
and  its  back  to  the  pole,  with  its  right  and  left 
resting  on  the  Atlantic  and  the  Pacific,  and  with 
the  telegraph  and  the  iron  road  connecting  the 
two  oceans  ? 

(Applause.)  Such,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  the 
vision  which  is  present  to  myself  and  to 
many  others  who,  like  myself,  whether  in 
Upper  or  Lower  Canada,  are  "  to  the  manor 
born,"  and  whose  all  and  whose  destiny  is 
here.  I  know  and  feel,  and  am  assured  that 
if  the  people  of  these  British  Provinces  are 
but  true  to  themselves,  and  if  the  statesmen 
of  Britain  now  act  aright  their  part  in  this 
great  crisis  of  our  national  history,  this  vision 
will  be  realized.  We  will  have  the  pride  to 
belong  to  a  great  country  still  attached  to 
the  Crown  of  Great  Britain,  but  in  which, 
notwithstanding,  we  shall  have  entire  free- 
dom of  action  and  the  blessings  of  responsible 


446 


self-government ;  and  I  am  satisfied  we  will 
see  as  the  results  of  this  union  all  that  we 
could  possibly  imagine  as  its  fruits.  ^Hear, 
hear.)  Thanking  the  House  for  their  kind 
attention,  I  have  only  to  say  further,  that  I 
believe  the  plan  under  which  we  seek  to  ask 
the  Parliament  of  Great  Britain  to  legislate 
for  us  is  a  wise  and  judicious  one,  and  which 
not  only  deserves,  but  which  I  am  confident 
will  receive,  the  hearty  support  of  the  repre- 
sentatives and  of  the  people  of  this  province, 
and  to  which  I,  for  one,  shall  feel  it  my  duty 
to  give  my  warmest  and  most  cordial  sanction. 
(Loud  cheers.) 

Mr.  M.  C.  Cameron  moved  the  adjourn- 
ment of  the  debate,  which  was  agreed  to. 


Friday,  February  24,  1865. 

Mr.  BURWELL,  in  resuming  the  debate 
upon  Confederation,  said — Mr.  Speaker, 
before  allowing  a  measure  of  this  importance 
to  go  through  the  House,  I  feel  it  my  duty 
to  ofi'er  a  io,^  words  upon  it.  The  question 
of  Federation  is  not  a  new  one  to  my  consti- 
tuents. Ever  since  the  Reform  Convention 
in  Toronto,  in  1859,  they  have  been  quite 
familiar  with  it.  At  the  general  election  in 
1861,  in  an  address  to  my  constituents,  I 
stated  that  in  case  we  should  not  be  able  to 
get  representation  by  population,  I  would 
be  in  favor  of  Federation  of  the  two  provin- 
ces of  Canada,  with  a  Local  Government  in 
each  province  and  a  Central  Government  to 
administer  matters  common  to  both,  provi- 
sion to  be  made  to  admit  the  Eastern  Provin- 
ces and  the  North-Wcst  territory,  should  they 
see  fit  to  enter  the  union,  of  course  with  the 
sanction  of  Great  Britain.  And  at  the  last 
general  election  in  1863,  I  addressed  them 
in  precisely  tbe  same  language.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  agitation  for  constitutional 
changes  had  been  so  general  and  persistent 
for  a  length  of  time  in  Upper  Canada,  that 
it  was  impossible  to  all  appearance  to  slave 
oft"  much  longer  some  action  in  reference  to 
the  difficulty.  Efforts  were  made  at  different 
times  to  secure  rcpresention  by  popu- 
lation as  a  remedy,  but  without  success. 
The  nearest  approach  to  a  remedy  for  the 
difficulty  under  which  Upper  Canada  labors, 
is,  in  my  opinion,  tbe  resolutions  of  the 
Quebec  Conlcrenco  now  beloro  the  House, 
and  the  question  for  con.«idcration  is  whether 
they  are  acccptablo  to  ^us  and  our  people,  or 


not.  The  principle  of  Federation,  in  my  view, 
has  been  a  great  success  on  this  continent. 
I  think  that,  if  we  look  to  the  history  oi  the 
United  States,  it  cannot  be  denied  that  there, 
as  a  principle  of  free  government,  it  has 
been  successful ;  and  I  doubt  whether  his- 
tory records  a  like  example,  under  ordinary 
circumstances,  of  such  great  success  and 
prosperity.  The  present  trouble  in  that 
country — the  war  now  raging  there — is  not  in 
my  opinion  attributable  to  the  federative 
form  of  government  adopted  there.  I  at- 
tribute it  to  different  causes  altogether, 
which  might  have  existed,  had  it  been  a 
monarchical  or  a  despotic  government  that 
prevailed.  Slavery  existed  there  and  was 
the  cause  of  the  war.  It  was  opposed  to  the 
spirit  of  the  age,  and  had  to  be  eradicated. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  were,  no  doubt,  other 
causes  which  had  some  influence  ia  bringing 
it  about;  such,  for  instance,  as  the  desire  of 
the  North  for  a  high  protective  tariff  to  en- 
courage its  domestic  manufactures,  and  the 
opposing  interest  ot  the  South  in  favor  of 
free  trade,  so  that,  manufacturing  nothing 
itself,  it  might  have  all  the  benefit  of  cheap 
importations.  These,  sir,  1  conceive  were 
the  two  great  causes  of  the  difficulty  in  the 
United  States.  Now,  in  forming  a  Federal 
Government  in  these  provinces,  I  think  we 
should  look  for  an  example  to  a  people  who 
are  similar  to  us  in  situation,  habits  and 
customs.  I  find  that  example  in  the  people 
of  the  United  States.  (Hear,  heiir.)  My 
honorable  friend  from  Lambton  cited  the 
example  of  a  great  many  other  countries, 
but  they  were  not  not  perhaps  accus- 
tomed so  much  to  free  government  as  the 
United  States;  for  it  was  not  Federation 
that  first  gave  them  liberty,  the  old  colonics 
of  New  England  enjoying  a  large  share  of 
liberty  long  before  the  adoption  of  Federal 
Government  by  them.  (ll<;ar,  hear.)  The 
plan  proposed  by  the  Couforencc  at  Quebec 
is,  in  my  opinion,  too  restrictive,  as  icgards 
the  power  of  the  Local  Legislatures.  It 
gives  too  much  powor  to  the  CJoucial  Ciovcrn- 
mcnt.  I  am  one  (if  thuaie,  sir,  who  believe 
that  the  appointment  of  the  deputy  or 
lieutenant  irovernors  should  not  bo  in  the 
gift  of  the  General  Government,  but  that 
they  should  bo  elected  by  the  people. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  believe,  too,  that  the 
members  of  the  Lcgi.^lative  Council  should 
bo  elected  by  the  people.  (Hoar,  hear.) 
There  is  no  element  in  thi.s  country — no 
class  in  this  country,  nor  do  1  think  it 
possible  to  create  u  class — the  counterpart  of 


447 


the  class  that  composes  the  House  of  Lords 
in  England.  The  British  G-overnment  is 
undoubtedly  the  best-balanced  government 
in  the  world;  but  we  cannot  exactly  copy 
the  system  here,  because  of  the  absence  of 
the  class  to  which  I  have  referred.  The 
nearest  approach  that  we  can  have  to  the 
House  of  Lords  is,  in  my  opinion,  an 
elective  Legislative  Council,  the  members 
of  which  shall  hold  office  for  an  extended 
period.  My  hon.  friend  from  Lambton,  in 
the  very  excellent  speech  he  made  to  the 
House  yesterday,  said  that  if  both  Houses 
were  made  elective  their  circumstances  and 
powers  would  be  so  similar  that  neither 
would  be  a  check  upon  the  other;  but  I 
contend  that  if  we  had  an  elective 
Upper  House,  with  the  members  repre- 
senting larger  constituencies  and  elected 
for  a  longer  period  than  the  members  of  the 
Lower  House,  it  would  be  less  liable  to  be 
influenced  by  every  change  of  public  opinion, 
and  conservative  enough  in  its  character  to 
be  a  wholesome  check  upon  rash  and  hasty 
legislation.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  although 
the  scheme  now  proposed  does  not  make 
these  provisions,  there  are  many  things  in 
it  that  I  can  approve  of.  That  the  Greneral 
Government  should  have  control  over  many 
matters  committed  to  it  by  the  scheme  is,  I 
think,  quite  right.  The  customs  is  a  branch 
of  the  administration  that  has  ramifications 
throughout  the  whole  country,  and  it  and 
the  appointments  connected  with  it  should 
be  in  the  hands  of  the  General  Governotent, 
So,  too,  with  regard  to  the  post  office,  which 
affects  the  whole  country,  and  should  be 
under  the  same  control.  The  militia  and  all 
matters  connected  with  the  defence  of  the 
country  should  also  be  placed  under  the  con- 
trol of  the  Central  Government;  and  the 
scheme  would  be  defective  if  it  were  other- 
wise. I  think  there  is  no  question  more 
important  now  to  us  than  that  of  defence. 
A  military  spirit  seems  to  have  seized  the 
people  all  over  the  continent,  and  promises 
to  control  their  action  for  a  long  time.  I 
think  it  wise,  therefore,  that  provision  should 
be  made  by  which  the  General  Government 
can  put  the  country  iuto  a  state  of  prepar- 
ation for  whatever  may  occur.  It  is  well  also, 
in  my  opinion,  that  the  judges  should  be 
appointed  by  that  government.  I  like  to 
see  an  independent  judiciary,  and  believe 
that  this  will  be  secured  to  us  by  the  mode 
proposed  in  these  resolutions.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  hardly  necessary  for  me  to  make 
allusion    to   the  local  governments  ;  there 


are  so  many  propositions  connected  with 
them,  and  so  little  is  known  of  what 
their  constitution  will  be,  that  it  is  hardly 
possible  indeed  for  me  to  refer  to  them.  I 
would  like  to  be  informed  as  to  their  charac- 
ter and  authority  before  speaking  of  them. 
My  opinion  is,  that  they  should  have  certain 
powers  defined  in  written  constitutions,  so 
that  beyond  these  powers  they  would  have 
no  right  to  legislate,  and  if  they  did,  that 
their  legislation  should  be  set  aside  and 
rendered  null  and  void  by  the  superior 
courts.  I  believe  that  the  Britisli  Constitu- 
tion is  of  that  elastic  character  that  the 
institutions  which  exist  under  it  can  be  made 
most  popular  and  still  work  well.  I  think 
history  has  proved  this  to  be  the  ease. 
Under  it  we  have  kept  sacred  the  great 
principle  of  responsible  government  which 
we  now  enjoy,  and  under  which  ministers 
of  the  Crown  hold  seats  in  and  are  responsi- 
ble to  the  Legislature.  Well,  we  want  no 
change  in  that  principle ;  for  I  think  it  is 
the  greatest  safeguard  to  liberty,  not  only  in 
England,  but  the  world.  (Hear,  hear.) 
With  regard  to  the  executive  head  ot  the 
General  Government,  appointment  by  the 
Crown  as  at  present  is  the  only  mode  that  is 
desirable.  It  will  not  do  to  tamper  with 
or  change  this  provision  of  our  govern- 
ment ;  for  if  we  become  detached  from  and 
cease  to  be  a  dependency  of  the  Bri- 
tish Crown,  what  do  we  become  ?  We 
must  necessarily  become  independent,  and 
when  that  state  of  political  existence  is 
reached,  we  know  not  what  will  follow. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  question  may  be  asked, 
is  the  Constitution  foreshadowed  in  these 
resolutions  such  as  can  be  accepted  by  the 
people  of  this  country  ?  Is  there  a  possibil- 
ity, if  it  be  defective,  of  bettering  or  amend- 
ing it  ?  I  think  that  in  many  of  its  details 
it  has  a  great  deal  that  is  good ;  and  if,  in 
portions  where  it  is  desirable,  it  cannot  be 
amended,  I  think,  nevertheless,  that  the 
people  of  this  country  would  hardly  be 
justified  in  rejecting  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  There 
is  no  doubt  that  all  history  shows  that 
nothing  in  the  way  of  government  is  ever 
considered  a  finality.  Changes  are  conti- 
nually going  on  in  all  forms  of  government 
The  political  history  of  our  own  country 
even  is  proof  of  this  fact.  At  the  time  of 
the  union  of  these  provinces,  the  members 
of  the  Legislative  Council  were  appointed 
by  the  Crown,  but  since  then  there  has  been 
a  change,  and  they  are  now  elected  by  the 
people.     At  that  time,  too,  the  wardens  of 


448 


our  district  councils  were  appointed  by 
the  Crown  ;  that  principle  was  subse- 
quently changed,  and  they  are  now  ejected 
by  the  popular  vote.  It  is  impossible,  sir, 
to  take  this  question  of  Confederation  into 
consideration,without  also  taking  into  account 
the  question  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway.  I 
have  on  several  occasions  spoken  against  the 
construction  of  that  road  ac  .the  expense  of 
Canada.  I  never  could  sec  tiiat  any  advan- 
tage would  be  derived  from  it,  unless  in  a 
military  point  of  view ;  and  ps  a  military 
work  I  did  not  think  it  worth  the  large  sum 
it  would  cost.  Bat  if  commercial  advantages 
could  be  pointed  out  equivalent  to  the  cost 
of  it,  then  I  admit  its  construction  might 
become  a  subject  of  consideration.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  think  that  free  intercourse  and  free 
trade  with  801), 000  of  our  fellow-subjects  in 
the  Lower  Provinces  are  not  light  and  unim- 
portant considerations.  They  are,  in  my 
opinion,  something  like  an  equivalent  for  the 
expenditure — (hear,  hear) — and  if  there  are 
no  graver  difficulties  than  the  building  of 
this  road  in  the  scheme  of  the  Quebec  Con- 
ference, then  they  may  all  be  easily  sur- 
mounted. (Ilear,  hear.)  That  there"  will 
be  great  expense  in  the  construction  of  the 
road,  and  in  connection  with  Confederation, 
admits  scarcely  of  a  doubt.  But  we  have 
Cjme  to  a  period  in  our  history  when,  for 
various  reasons,  expense  has  become  neces- 
sary. We  must  have  some  change  in  our 
Constitution,  and  whether  it  be  attended  by 
additional  expense  or  not,  it  is  indispensable 
in  order  to  remove  the  evils  under  which 
the  country  has  so  long  labored.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON  said  —  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  approach  the  discussion  of  this 
subject  in  no  degree  of  diffidence  or  tcmorit}', 
because  I  apprehend  that  it  signifies  very 
little  what  I  or  any  other  lion,  member  may 
say,  it  will  receive  but  little  attention,  so  far 
as  tending  to  change  in  the  slightest  degree 
the  opinions  th_t  hou.  members  may  have 
in  reference  to  the  project  of  Confederation. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Nevertheless,  though  no 
weight  may  attach  to  anything  that  I  may 
say,  [  feel  it  my  duty  to  the  constituency 
that  I  represent,  and  to  the  province  at 
large,  to  enter  my  protest  against  the  passage 
of  this  resolution-  in  its  present  shape. 
(Hear,  hear.)  1  am  in  i'avor  of  a  union  of 
the  provinces,  but  it  must  be  such  a  union 
as  will  benefit  and  protect  the  interests  of 
the  provinces  at  large  ;  and  I  feel  that  those 
interests   cannot  be  protected  and  benefited 


if  we  are  going  into  the  extravagances  that 
must  necessarily  follow  such  a  union  as  is 
now   contemplated.      (Hear,    hear.)      The 
question  has  been  considered  in  its  political, 
in  its  commercial,  in  its  defensive  or  military 
aspects,  and  in  its  sectional  aspects,  and  very 
little  that  can  be  said  by  any  lion,  gentleman 
now  will  be   considered   new ;  and  he  who 
speaks   at  this  stage  of  the  discussion  will 
speak  at  a  disadvantage,  because  he  can  say 
very  little  that  is  new.     He  may  speak  on 
those  matters  that   have  been  discussed  in 
new    language,   and  so   make    some    little 
change,  but  as  for  the   material   positions, 
they  have  been  already  discussed,  and  by 
honorable  gentlemen   very  ably    discussed. 
I  understand    that  the  position   which  the 
Grovernment    of  this    country   aasumes,    in 
introducing  this  measure  with  the  haste  in 
which  they  are  doing  it,  declining  to  allow 
the  people  to  have  anything  to  say  upon  it, 
except    through   their  representatives,  who 
were   not   sent  -here   to   vote  on  any  such 
measure    as  this,  is  that   this  country  had 
arrived  at  such  a  stage  that  it  was  impossible 
for   the   affairs  of  the  Government  to    be 
carried  on,  unless  some   change  took  place, 
and  that  of  a  radical   character.      In  that 
assertion  I  do  not  agree.     I  dissent  from  it 
entirely,    and    I    feel   that    it   was    not  the 
necessities  of  this  country  that  have  brought 
about  these  resolutions,  but  that  it  was  the 
factious  conduct  of  houorable  gentlemen  on 
the  floor  of  this  House.    If  that  factious  con- 
duct had  not  been  persevered  in,  there  would 
have  been  no  necessity  for  the  consideration 
that  we  are  now  undertaking,     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  feel  that  I  am  making   a  statement  the 
correctness  of  which  cannot  be  denied;  and 
I  shall  refer  to  the  language  of  the   Hon. 
President  of   the   Council,   even  since  this 
matter   has   been    under    consideration,  to 
establish   it.      (Hear,   hear.)       It  has  been 
stated  by  hiui  that  the  affairs  of  this  country 
had  come  to  a  dead-lock.     It  has  been  stated 
that  wo  were  drifting  into  inevitable  ruin  ; 
that  our  debt  was  so  fast  increa.sing,  that  it 
was  absolutely  impossible  to  stem  the  torrent, 
or  close  the  flood-gates  of  the  treasury  that 
that   had   been  opened   by    the   mismanage- 
ment of  hon.  gentlemeti  sitting  alongside  of 
the  President  of  the   Council  at  the  present 
time.     Understand  mo :   I  am  not  charging 
those  hon.  gentlonien  with  oxtravagaiiee ;  1 
am   simjily   reierriug   to  the  language  used 
by  the  Honorable  President  of  the   Coun- 
cil.     Rut  on   a    recent    occasion     he  spoke 
of  this  uniou  ua  a  matter  to  be  proud  of,  and 


449 


said  that  every  one  of  the  provinces  that 
was  entering  into  the  union  would  enter  it 
with  a  surplus  of  revenue,  and  were,  there- 
fore, not  obliged  to  go  into  it  from  necessity: 
that  they  did  not  enter  into  the  partnership 
as  a  bankrupt  concern,  but,  on  the  contrary, 
would  commence  business  in  a  most 
prosperous  condition.  Now,  if  that  were 
the  case,  what  is  the  necessity  for  this 
change — a  change  that  will  render  so  much 
more  extravagance  necessary  to  carry  on  the 
government,  even  under  the  guidance  of  the 
Hon.  the  President  of  the  Council  ?  It  was 
said  that  the  people  of  the  section  of  the  pro- 
vince to  which  I  belong  had  become  satis- 
fied that  there  was  extravagance  in  the 
Government,  that  the  people  of  Lower 
Canada  were  absorbing  too  large  a  propor- 
tion of  the  revenue  that  was  paid  by  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada.  It  was  asserted 
that  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  were  pay- 
ing seven-tenths  of  the  whole  revenue  of  the 
country ;  that  we  had  not  sufficient  repre- 
sentation in  Parliament ;  and  that  there  was 
ruin  staring  us  in  the  face,  because  we  had 
not  our  proper  voice  in  the  Legislature,  by 
means  of  which  we  might  resist  the  extrava- 
gance of  Lower  Canadians.  It  was  said 
that  for  every  appropriation  made  for  Upper 
Canada,  a  corresponding  one  had  to  be 
made  for  Lower  Canada,  and  thereby  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada  were  paying  more 
than  their  fair  share  into  the  common  purse 
of  the  country.  Taking  that  view  of  the 
case,  I  would  ask  the  Honorable  President 
of  the  Council,  who  is  so  warm  in  advocating 
these  resolutions,  how  much  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  will  be  called  upon  to  pay 
more  than  Lower  Canada  in  the  new  scheme? 
I  understand  that  Lower  is  to  receive  §888,- 
531  from  the  Federal  Government.  As 
Upper  Canada  has  been  paying  two-thirds, 
nay,  as  much  as  seven-tenths  into  the  general 
revenue,  how  much  are  we  granting  to  Lower 
Canada  out  of  the  pockets  of  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  towards  paying  the  expenses 
of  managing  their  local  afi"airs — affairs  of 
which  we  in  the  Upper  Province  will  have 
not  one  word  to  say  ?  By  the  arrangement 
that  is  to  be  entered  into,  suppose  that  the 
Lower  Provinces  constitute  about  one-fifth  of 
the  whole — which,  I  presume,  is  all  that  they 
will  contribute.  Thiswould  make  $177,706. 
Upper  Canada,  on  the  principle  of  paying 
two-thirds,  would  contribute  $473,884,  and 
Lower  Canada  only  $236,941.  For  the  sup- 
port of  the  Local  Government  of  Lower  Canada 
58 


from  the  Federal  exchequer,  Upper  (Janada 
would,  therefore,  have  to  pay  no  less  a  sum 
than  6473,884,  which  is  nearly  double  the 
amount  that  Lower  Canada  itself  will  pay  for 
the  same  purpose.  The  amount  that  Upper 
Canada  will  have  to  pay  in  excess  of  Lower 
Canada,  for  exclusively  Lower  Canada  pur- 
poses, is  $175,859.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now 
that  is  the  position  in  which  that  branch  of 
the  question  stands ;  but  it  is  said  that  we  are 
to  become  a  great  people,  third,  I  think,  in 
rank  of  the  nations  of  the  earth.  It  is  said 
that,  because  we  unite  with  a  people  who 
have  less  than  a  million  of  inhabitants,  while 
we  have  nearly  two  and  a  half  millions,  we 
are  to  become  this  vast  nation,  and  to  hold  a 
position  in  the  world  above  that  of  all  nations 
except  three  on  the  face  of  the  globe.  Well, 
it  does  not  strike  me  that  the  mere  fact  of 
our  joining;  the  Lower  Provinces  to  this  pro- 
vince by  the  Intercolonial  Railway  is  going 
to  give  us  that  position.  We  need  a  vast 
population  as  well  as  a  vast  country  to  acquire 
that  greatness.  It  is  said  that  we  will  be 
stronger  by  this  union;  that  we  will  be  better 
able  to  protect  ourselves  in  the  event  of  hos- 
tilities breaking  out  between  this  country 
and  the  United  States.  But  is  that  true  ? 
(Cries  of"  Yes*,  yes,"  and  '•'  No,  no.")  Are 
we  to  become  at  once  an  independent  nation 
that  will  make  treaties  with  foreign  nations, 
or  are  we  still  to  be  dependent  on  the  British 
Crown — a  dependency  that  I  hope  will  never 
be  done  away  with  ?  (Hear,  hear.).  Let  it 
be  understood  that  I  am  not  to  be  dazzled 
by  those  ideas  of  greatness  that  are  being- 
held  out  to  us.  We  can  never  be  so  great 
in  any  way  as  we  can  by  remaining  a  depen- 
dency of  the  British  Crown.  Every  one 
of  these  provinces  is  true  and  faithful 
in  its  allegiance  to  the  British  Crown,  and 
if  that  power  makes  war,  each  will  do  all 
that  lies  in  its  power  to  defend  its  own  ter- 
ritory and  assist  the  Mother  Country.  But 
how  do  we  gain  strength  from  the  scheme  ? 
We  obtain  many  hundreds  of  miles  of  addi- 
tional frontier,  and  we  do  not  get  men  in 
proportion.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  shall  build 
a  lailway  that  cannot  possibly  be  of  much 
use  to  us,  but  that  will  be  subject  to  destruc- 
tion by  the  enemy,  and  will  be  indefensible 
and  difficult  to  keep  open^.  The  armies  that 
will  be  brought  against  us  by  the  United 
States  will  be  too  great  to  be  resisted  along 
the  entire  frontier,  and  no  ordinary  force 
will  be  sufficient  to  protect  so  long  a  line  of 
communication.     I  therefore  argue  that  the 


450 


Confederation  will  not  make  us  a  stronger 
or  a  greater  people  than  before.  Then  it  is 
said  that  in  our  present  exigencies  we  must 
look  out  for  other  markets  for  our  produce 
than  those  we  have  been  depending  upon ; 
that  we  must  endeavor  to  become  a  manufac- 
turing country,  obtaining  minerals  from  the 
Lower  Provinces  and  sending  them  our  pro- 
duce in  return.  That  is  all  very  fine,  but 
it  can  be  accomplished  without  entering  into 
au  extravagantly  expensive  arrangement 
such  as  this  is.  We  could  have  a  legislative 
union  with  one  Legislature  or  Central  Gov- 
ernment, that  would  manage  all  our  affairs 
on  a  scale  as  economical  as  the  affairs  of  the 
province  of  Canada  have  been  conducted ; 
but  when  you  provide  for  a  General  Goveru- 
ment,  and  tlun  for  a  Local  Government  in 
each  province  besides,  it  stands  to  reason 
that  the  expenditure  must  be  far  in  excess 
of  that  which  would  result  from  having  a 
single  legislature.  The  Hon.  President 
of  the  Council  has  said  that  he  is  not,  al- 
though all  his  other  colleagues  who  have 
spoken  on  the  floor  of  the  House  have  ad- 
mitted that  they  are,  in  favor  of  a  legislative 
union,  if  this  union  could  be  accomplished. 
The  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  thinks, 
perhaps,  that  this  wouid  be  too  damaging  an 
admssion,  so  he  says :  "  I  would  not  have 
a  legislative  union  if  I  could.  There  is 
nothing  but  a  Federal  union  for  me,  be- 
cause our  country  is  so  extensive  that  it 
would  be  impossible  to  control  it  with  a 
Legislature  sitting  at  Ottawa."  Now,  is 
this  so  ?  Would  lour  or  five  hundred 
additional  miles  of  territory  make  all  the 
difference  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  gentleman 
is  mistaken.  I  never  used  any  such  ex- 
pression. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— Of  course  it  is 
very  unplca.sant  to  have  to  say  it,  but  my 
ears  must  have  deceived  me  very  grossly 
indeed,  if  the  hon.  gentleman  did  not  assert 
in  the  hearing  of  persons  in  this  House, 
when  delivering  his  address  on  these  reso- 
lutions, that  he  preferred  a  Federal  union, 
and  a.ssigncd  as  a  reason  for  his  preference 
theextorit  of  the  country. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  gentle- 
man will  sec  that  this  is  a  very  different 
thing  iVora  the  statement  he  previously 
made.  What  1  did  say  was  this,  that  it 
would  be  exceedingly  inconvenient  to  man- 
age the  local  affairs  of  so  widely  extended  a 
country.     I  did  not  say   that  wo  conid  not 


exercise  a  general  control  over  the  country. 
I  said  that  it  was  impossible  to  attend  to  the 
mere  parish  aflairs  of  Newfoundland,  Prince 
Edward  Island,  New  Brunswick  and  the 
North-West.     That  is  what  I  said. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— Well,  one  reason 
assigned  by  the  hon.  gentleman  for  a  Federal 
union  was  that  in  attending  to  the  private 
business  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  under  a 
legislative  union,  we  would  be  kept  sitting 
at  Ottawa  for  nine  months  of  the  year.  It 
is,  however,  the  case  that  the  affairs  of 
United  Canada  can  be  transacted  in  a  period 
of  three  or  four  month.'?,  while  according  to 
the  Hon.  the  President  of  the  Council,  the 
affairs  of  the  federated  provinces  would  not 
be  attended  to  in  less  than  nine  months  in 
consequence  of  the  private  business  which 
would  be  added  to  the  legislation  from  a 
people  numbering  only  seven  or  eight  hun- 
dred thousand.  (^Hcar,  hear.)  The  business 
of  two  and  a  half  millions  can  be  disposed  of 
in  three  months,  whilst  it  i.'?  alleged  that  the 
business  brought  by  the  addition  of  seven  or 
eight  hundred  thousand  more  would  prolong 
the  sessions  of  Parliament  by  six  months. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  think  that  the  position 
which  the  hon.  gentleman  took  in  reforeuce 
to  that,  is  just  as  untenable  as  his  position 
that  a  Legislative  union  in  itself  would  not 
be  better  than  u  Federal  union.  NOw,  it  is 
said  that  our  commercial  affairs  will  be  very 
much  advanced  by  this  arrangement.  It  is 
said  that  the  Reciprocity  treaty  is  going  to 
be  abrogated.  No  doubt  we  have  received 
notice  of  it.  It  is  also  said  that  it  is 
possible  —  although  the  Hon.  President 
of  the  Council  docs  not  thiuk  it  is  so — that 
the  bonded  system  is  to  be  done  away  with 
between  Canada  and  the  Ignited  States,  and 
that,  therefore,  we  would  have  no  means  of 
reaching  the  Atlantic  except  during  the 
summer  mouths  of  the  year,  in  cousc(|U(Mjce 
of  which  it  is  very  desirable  that  t!.is  great 
work  of  the  Interct)lonial  Railway  should 
be  accompli.-hed,  and  that  this  union  of  the 
provinces  should  take  place.  I  jirosume  it 
is  a  well  understood  fact  that  a  people  will 
always  find  some  channel  into  which  to 
direct  their  energies — that  there  will  be  a 
channel  lor  their  commerce — that  there 
will  be  a  channel  for  their  produce.  Now, 
if  the  Reciproc't}'  treaty  is  abrogated,  and  if 
the  bonded  system  is  put  an  end  to,  it  will 
be  done  long  before  tlie  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way can  be  established,  and  wo  must  then 
remain  suffering  for  a  number  of  years  until 


451 


that  work  is  accomplished  and  before  we 
get    communication   with  the   Lower  Pro- 
vinces, except  through   the  medium   of  the 
St.  Lawrence,  which  is  only  accessible  during 
the    summer  time.       Then    it    would    be 
absolutely  necessary  for  us  to  resort  to  some 
other   means,  to  devise  some  other  scheme, 
by  which  we  might  not  allow  the  aifairs  of 
these   provinces,  in   the   meantime,   to    be 
injured,  to  lag  and  to  suffer;  and  when  our 
commerce  flows  iu  such  new  channel,  it  will 
not  be  easy  to  divert  it.      But  is  it  not  the 
fact  that  we  have  been  in  existence  a  number 
of  years  as  a  colony  here  ?      Is  it  not  the 
fact,  too,  that  we  have  been  far  removed 
from  the  sea?     Is  it  not  the  fact,  that  when 
Upper    Canada   was   subject    to   duties   to 
Lower    Canada,     and     when    we    had    no 
connection  with   the  United    States  except 
by   paying   high    restrictive  duties,  Upper 
Canada   progressed    rapidly   and    became  a 
large  and   prosperous    province  ?      Did    wo 
then   complain    with    all    these   restrictions 
weighing  upon  us  ?       For   my  part,  I  have 
yet  to  see,  if  the  reciprocity  treaty  is  put  an 
end   to   and  if  the  bonding  system  is  dis- 
continued, that  we   would  be  unable  to  find 
means  by  which  the   energies  of  the  people 
of   this    country   would    find    development. 
We  would  still  go  on  in  material  prosperity, 
if  we  found  hon.  gentlemen  forgetting  their 
faction,     and      allowing     the      wheels     of 
government    to     progress     without     being 
unnecessarily     impeded.        (Hear,     hear.) 
In  one  view  of  the  case,  if  I  were  satisfied 
that  the  people  of  this  country  fully  approv- 
ed of  the  scheme,  I  would  give  it  my  sup- 
port, althou2;h  I  disapprove  of  it  in  its  present 
shape.     But  I  cannot  understand  why  those 
hon.  gentlemen   who  have   professed,  at  all 
events  heretofore,  to  be  the  advocates  of  the 
rights  and  liberties  of  the  people,  should  so 
far  forget  those  rights  and  liberties  as  to  set 
them  aside,  and  allow  half  a  dozen  gentle- 
men  in    this  province   to   combine   with   a 
number  of  gentlemen  from  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces to  completely  ignore  and  set  aside  the 
views  of  those  they  profess    to    represent. 
(Hear,  hear.)     It   has  been   said   that  the 
people  of  this  country  have  fully  endorsed  and 
approved  of  this  measure.     But  where  is  the 
evidence  of  it  ?     It   has  been  asserted  that 
this  is  a  matter  which   was  under  consider- 
ation in  the  year  1S58,  and  that  it  has  been 
mooted  at  different  times  since.     But  this 
very  fact   shews  that  it  has  never  taken  a 
deep  hold  on  the  people,  and  certain  it  is 


that  it  has   nevor  been  made  a  question  up 
to   this   time   at  the   polls.      (Hear,   hear.) 
Therefore,  the  people  have  not  pronounced 
an  opinion  upon  it.     And  I  mean  to  say  this, 
that  if  the  people  understood  it  was  going  to 
cost  so  much  more  than  the  present  form  of 
government,  they  would  not  be  inclined  to 
approve  and  to  accept  it  as  readily  as  hon. 
gentlemen  seem  to  think.    I  hold  that,  if  the 
hon.   gentlemen    who  occupy  the  Treasury 
benches  were  really  sincere  in  their  views 
of  the  benefits  to  result  from  this  mea.sure, 
they  would  allow  the  question  to  go  to  the 
people    for    the    fullest  consideration.       la 
1841    the   people  of  this  country  obtained 
responsible  government,  and  it  was  declared 
to  them  then  that  they  should  have  a  con- 
trolling voice  in  the  affairs  of  the  country — 
that  no  important  change,   in  fact,    should 
take  place   without  their  having  an   oppor- 
tunity  of  pronouncing  upon    it.     And  yet 
hon.  gentlemen    now   disclaim   the   right  of 
appeal  to  the  people,  and  arrogate  to  them- 
selves an  amount  of  wisdom  to  suppose  that 
the  tens  of  thousands  of  people  of  this  pro- 
vince have  not  the  capacity  to  understand 
the  meaning  or  the  magnitude  of  this  ques- 
tion.    They   exclude   from    these    men   the 
right  of  pronouncing  an  opinion ;  and  is  it 
not  singular  that  it  is  the  people  of  the  pro- 
vince of  Canada  who  are  treated  in  this  way  ? 
It  is  not  so  in  the  Lower  Provinces.     New 
Brunswick,  for  instance,  dissolves  its  House, 
and  goes  to  the  people.   And  why  should  New 
Brunswick  do  that  which  is  denied  to  Canada? 
Why  should  the  people  of  New  Brunswick 
be  treated   as  more  able  and  more  capable 
of  understanding  and  pronouncing  an  intel- 
ligent opinion   than  the  people  of  Canada? 
(Hear,  hear.)     The   people   of    Canada,    I 
apprehend,  are  just  as   capable   of  compre- 
hending a  measure  of  this  importance  as  the 
people  of  New  Brunswick,  and  they  ought 
to  have  the  same  opportunity  of  pronouncing 
upon    it.     (Hei.r,   hear.)      The    Honorable 
President  of  the  Council  has  said  that  a  hos- 
tile feeling  had  arisen  between  both  sections 
of  the  province  to  such   a  degree,  that  the 
government  and  legislation  of  the  country 
had  almost  come  to  a  dead  stand.     Now,  was- 
there  sxich  a  feeling   of  hostility   existing 
between  the    people  of   the  different   pro- 
vinces ?     Was  such  the  fact?     Did  honor- 
able gentlemen  of  French   extraction    meet 
honorable  gentlemen   of  British   extraction 
upon  the  floor  of  this  House  with  any  feeling 
of  hostility  whatever  ?    Did  we  not  meet  aa 


453 


friends  ?  They  considered  that  they  had 
peculiar  interests  to  serve,  and  we  considered 
that  we  had  a  larger  population  than  they, 
and  which  population  had  not  a  sufficient 
representation  on  the  floor  of  this  House,  and 
we  sought  a  change  in  order  to  give  them 
the  representation  to  which  they  were 
entitled.  The  President  of  the  Council 
claims  that  he  has  accomplished  a  great 
work  in  gaining  for  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  that  representation  on  the  floor  of 
Parliament.  Now,  I  beg  to  join  issue  with 
him  on  that  point.  1  assert  that,  instead  of 
having  gained  for  the  Upper  Province  that 
boon,  he  has  arrayed  thirty  additional  votes 
against  Upper  Canada.  lie  makes  Upper 
Canada  stand  not  as  she  is  now,  but  with 
thirty  additional  voices  to  contend  against. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  shall  pay  in  the  same 
proportion,  in  fact,  that  we  paid  before  to 
the  whole  revenue  of  the  country.  Let  us 
see  if  I  am  singular  in  this  view — let  us  see 
whether  the  gentlemen  who  compose  the 
governments  in  the  Lower  Provinces  do  not 
entertain  the  same  opinion.  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley 
made  this  representation  in  a  speech  which 
he  delivered  on  the  17th  November  last ; — 

So  close  is  the  contest  between  parties  in  the 
Cana'-jan  Legislature,  that  even  the  five  Prince 
Edward  Island  members  by  their  vote  could  turn 
victory  on  whatever  side  they  chose,  and  have  the 
»ame  entirely  in  their  own  hands.  Suppose  that 
Upper  Canada  should  attempt  to  carry  out  schemes 
for  her  own  aggrandizement  in  the  west,  could 
she,  with  her  eighty-two  representatives,  success- 
fully oppose  the  sixty-five  of  Lower  Canada  and 
the  forty-seven  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  whose 
intcreets  would  be  identical  ?  Certainly  not ;  and 
she  would  not  attempt  it. 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE— What  has  that 
to  do  with  representation  by  population  ? 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON—"  What  has  that 
to  do  with  representation  by  population  ?" 
asks  the  lion,  gentleman.  lleprescntation 
by  population  wus  agitated,  so  iar  as  Upper 
Canada  is  concerned,  becau.sc  we  arc  paying 
BO  large  a  proportion  of  the  revenue  of  the 
country  ;  and  sliould  the  Lower  Provinces 
have  a  corresponding  voice,  we  should  still 
pay  the  same  proportion  uf  revenue — instead, 
in  fact,  of  standing  on  auciiuality,  wo  would 
have  thirty  voices  more  to  contend  against. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Now,  let  us  sec  whetlier,  in 
another  point  of  view,  it  is  going  to  benefit 
us.  It  is  represented  by  this  game  gentlo- 
man  in  the  Lower  Provinces  that,  when  this 
change  takes  place,  they  will  bo  relieved 
from  the  burdens  they  now  bear ;  because, 


as  asserted  in  the  speech  to  which  I  have 
referred,  they  have  paid  83.20  per  head  of 
taxes ;  and,  when  the  change  was  brought 
about,  they  would  only  pay  $2.75 — that  ip, 
they  would  be  gainers  by  the  arrangement 
by  45  cents  a  head.  Is  that  so,  or  is  it  not 
so  ?  If  not,  then  there  is  dishonesty  at  the 
bottom  of  this  scheme,  when  it  requires 
arguments  of  that  kind  to  further  it.  If  it 
is  so,  then  these  gentlemen  who  assert  that 
they  ars  looking  out  for  the  interest  and 
the  advantage  of  Canada,  are  proving  traitors 
to  the  trust  reposed  in  them,  arc  doing  a 
wrong  to  their  country,  and  are  doing  that 
for  the  sake  of  their  own  self-aggrandize- 
ment. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Allow 
me  to  make  a  remark.  A  little  while  ago 
the  honorable  gentleman  quoted  i'rom  a 
speech  of  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  in  which  that 
gentleman  supposed  the  case,  that  on  some 
evil  day  Upper  Canada,  actuated  by  selfish 
motives,  would  endeavor  to  obtain  the  passing 
of  some  measure  that  would  be  conducive  to 
her  exclusive  aggrandizement.  "  In  that 
event,''  said  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  addressing 
himself  to  his  people  below,  with  the  view 
of  meeting  that  hypothetical  case,  "  you  will 
have  the  sixty-five  members  from  Lower 
Canada  and  the  forty-seven  from  below,  to 
unite  in  resisting  any  attempt  of  the  kind." 
On  tliat  account  the  honorable  member  for 
North  Ontario  has  stated  that  he  is  opposed 
to  this  scheme  of  Federation.  He  prefers  a 
legislative  union;  but  of  course  with  a 
legislative  union  there  would  be  the  same 
ratio  of  representation,  and  his  opposition, 
on  this  particular  ground,  ought  to  apply  to 
the  one  system  as  much  as  to  the  other. 

Mr.  CAMERON— I  will  give  you  a 
practical  illustration  of  how  this  may  affect 
our  interest.  It  is  a  part  of  this  scheme,  or 
ought  to  have  been  a  part  of  it,  that  the 
opening  up  of  the  North-West  should  bo  in- 
cluded in  it;  that  improvements  should  be 
made  in  ihat  direction  so  that  wo  might  liavc 
the  advantage  of  the  vast  mineral  wealth  which 
exists  there,  and  of  the  great  stretch  of 
territory  available  for  agricultural  purposes 
as  well.  Rut  this  is  not  given  to  us  now. 
The  Intercolonial  Railway  is  made  a  portion 
uf  this  scheme.  It  is  made,  so  to  speak,  a 
partol"  the  Constitution — a  necessity  without 
which  the  seheme  cannot  go  on.  Now, 
suppose  we  usk  in  tho  Feileral  Jjeu;islaturc 
for  the  improvenu'nt  -ol'  tho  N^•rth-^Vcst, 
because  wo  consider  it  for  our  interest  to 
have  that  territory  opened  up  and  improved, 


453 


shall  we  not  find  a  verification  of  the  lan- 
guage of  this  gentleman — sixty-five  mem- 
bers from  Lower  Canada  and  forty-seven 
from  the  Lower  Provinces,  whose  interests 
are  identical,  will  be  united  against  us,  and 
we  will  not  be  able  to  accomplish  a  work  of 
that  kind.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  considering 
a  question  of  this  nature — in  considering  a 
change  of  the  Constitution — 1  presume 
e\^ery  man  ought  to  have  the  interest  of  the 
whole  at  heart,  and  not  the  interests  merely 
of  individual  parts — that  every  man  from 
the  Lower  Provinces  who  seeks  this  union 
should  desire  it,  not  because  it  is  going  to 
advantage  the  Lower  Provinces  merely,  but 
because  it  is  going  to  advantage  Canada  as 
well.  The  argument  should  be,  that  it  is  to 
be  for  the  advantage  of  the  whole.  It 
should  not  be  an  argument  that  $2,75  is  the 
sum  that  will  be  paid  by  the  Lower  Provinces 
under  the  arrangement,  when  they  are  pay- 
ing now  §3.20  a  head  to  the  public  revenue. 
Arguments  of  that  kind  should  not  be  used 
to  show  that  an  advantage  is  gained  by  one 
portion  of  the  proposed  Confederation  at  the 
expense  of  another ;  for  example,  that  the 
subsidy  obtained  by  the  Lower  Provinces 
from  the  Federal  Government  will  be  so 
great,  that  it  will  meet  all  their  expenditures, 
and  leave  them  §34,000  the  gainers.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Now,  I  ask,  are  we  contributing  to 
that  in  the  same  proportion  that  we  are 
contributing  to  the  subsidy  to  Lower  Canada 
— and  is  that  honorable  gentleman  who  has 
taken  the  advocacy  of  Upper  Canadian 
interests  so  peculiarly  under  his  own  control, 
acting  for  the  interests  of  Upper  Canada 
when  he  consents  to  an  arrangement  of  this 
kind  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  The  President  of  the 
Council  has  used  this  language  with  reference 
to  the  matter.  He  says : — "  It  is  not  a 
question  of  interest,  or  mere  commercial 
advantage ;  no,  it  is  an  effort  to  establish 
a  uew  empire  in  British  North  America." 
That  is  the  honorable  gentleman's  state- 
ment. But,  for  my  own  part,  I  think  it 
would  be  better  to  get  out  of  the  debt  which 
now  burdens  us, — to  reduce  the  expenses  the 
people  arc  suffering  from, — to  lighten  the 
taxation  we  are  laboring  under — than  to 
endeavor  to  establish  an  empire  .^uch  as  my 
honorable  friend  the  President  of  the 
Council  speaks  of.  It  would  be  much 
better  for  us  to  endeavor  to  reduce  our 
expenditure,  and  live  within  our  means,  than 
to  attempt  to  establish  a  new  empire  ;  be- 
cause, unless  he  means  by  that  that  we  are 
going  to  establish  our  independence,  we  are 


already,  as  subjects  of  the  British  Crown, 
sharers  in  all  the  glories  of  the  British  nation. 
(Hear, hear.)  Thehon.  gentleman  also  said — 
and  this  was  the  argument  he  addressed  to  the 
House  as  a  reason  why  his  friends  from 
Upper  Canada  should  unite  with  him  in 
supporting  this  scheme — "We  complained, 
that  immense  sums  were  taken  from  the 
public  chest  and  applied  to  local  purposes,  in 
Lower  Canada,  from  which  wo  of  Upper 
Canada  derived  no  advantage."  Now  I  ask, 
have  we  ever  seen  an  attempt  made  by 
Lower  Canada  to  obtain  so  great  a  subsidy  as 
8175,000  a  year  in  perpetuity  ?  And  yet, 
that  is  what  the  hon.  gentleman,  by  this 
scheme,  actually  concedes  to  them,  apart 
from  the  greater  expenditure  we  will  have  to 
pay  in  connection  with  the  administration  of 
the  general  affairs  of  the  whole  Confeder- 
ation. Let  us  see  what  the  seventeen  addi- 
tional representatives  we  of  Upper  Canada 
are  to  obtain,  will  cost  us.  I  make  it  that 
for  each  representative  we  will  have  to  pay 
only  $16,397  per  annum.  I  make  that  out 
in  this  way.  The  contribution  by  the  Lower 
Provinces  to  the  G-eneral  Government  is 
$1,929,272.  The  contribution  of  Lower 
Canada  is  $2,208,035.  The  contribution  of 
Upper  Canada  is  $4,416,072.  I  am  speak- 
ing now  of  the  contributions  that  go  to  meet 
the  expenditure  of  the  Federal  Government. 
The  contribution  of  Upper  Canada  is  thus  in 
excess  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  $2,486,800 ; 
in  excess  of  Lower  Canada,  $2,208,037 ; 
and  in  excess  of  both,  $278,765,  which, 
divided  by  17,  will  give  $16,397  as  the  cost 
of  each  additional  member  we  are  getting. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDOXALD— Hear,  hear. 

Mr.  CAMERON— Well,  this  matter  is 
not  left  to  us  either,  as  the  representatives 
of  the  people,  to  pronounce  an  opinion  upon 
it.  We  are  to  take  the  scheme  as  a  whole. 
We  are  not  to  be  allowed  to  amend  it  in  any 
particular.  But  the  Government  come  down 
and  tell  us,  that  in  consequence  of  the  union 
of  political  parties  which  has  taken  place, 
they  feel  themselves  so  strong  that  they  can 
say  to  the  representatives  of  the  people  : 
"Just  take  this,  or  you  shall  have  nothing, 
and  revert  back  to  inevitable  ruin."  That  is 
the  position  in  which  they  put  us.  Yet,  if  the 
statement  made  by  the  Hon.  Finance  Minister 
is  correct,  our  revenue  has  increased,  so  that 
we  have  a  surplus  of  $872,000,  after  making 
up  the  deficiency  of  the  previous  year.  He 
tells  us  the  revenue  of  Canada  has  increased 
by  a  million  and  a  half  of  dollars ;  and  that 
the  revenues  of  New  Brunswick  and  Nova 


454 


Scotia  have  ioercased  §100,000  each — beiug 
an  increase  for  the  whole  provinces  of 
81,700,000.  Would  we  then  revert  back  to 
ruin,  if  these  statements  be  correct  ?  If  our 
income  has  really  increased  so  much  as  has 
been  represented,  would  we,  if  we  remain  as 
we  are,  ^oback  to  ruin  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
has  been  said  that  there  has  been  a  dead- 
lock in  the  affairs  of  the  country  for  a  cou- 
siderablc  length  of  time ;  but  I  think  the 
province  has  not  been  going  to  ruin,  if  it 
has  been  getting  an  increase  of  revenue  to 
the  extent  of  a  million  and  a  half,  notwith- 
standing that  deadlock.  I  am  not  sure  but 
the  province  would  do  better  if  this  House 
were  closed  up  for  ten  years  and  hon. 
members  sent  about  their  business.  (Ironical 
ministerial  cheers.)  Then  it  has  been  said 
that  wc  are  bound  to  accept  this  scheme,  if 
we  cannot  show  some  better  means  of  getting 
out  of  our  difficulties.  With  reference  to 
that,  I  would  say  that  if  any  of  those  hon. 
gentlemen  were  really  the  patriots  they 
represent  themselves  to  be,  let  them 
exemplify  the  virtue  of  resignation — let 
them  leave  their  places  in  the  front  ranks  of 
the  ministerial  benches,  and  let  new  men  be 
introduced  to  take  their  places — let  them  do 
this,  and  I  have  no  hesitation  in  saying  that 
parties  in  this  country  are  not  so  bitterly 
hostile  but  a  government  or  any  number  of 
governments  could  be  formed  to  carry  on 
the  affairs  of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  gentlemen  who  have  been  in  the  front 
of  the  political  affairs  of  this  country  for 
years  back,  have  fancied  that  the  whole  of 
the  political  wisdom  of  the  country  was 
centred  in  them,  and  that  this  country  must 
of  necessity  go  to  ruin,  if  they  were  not  at 
the  helm  ol  affairs.  This,  I  think,  is  claim- 
ing too  much.  However,  I  do  not  mean  to  say 
that  they  are  not  exceedingly  able  men.  But 
1  would  say  that  the  Attorney  General 
East,  and  his  colleague  the  Attorney  Gcn- 
ral  for  Upper  Canada,  who  have  been 
so  much  opposed  and  vilifieii  by  the 
honorable  gentlemen  who  arc  now  as- 
sociated with  them  in  the  Government, 
must  have  lelt  exceedingly  gratified  when 
they  found  that  after  all  tlie  charges  of 
corruption  wliich  had  been  brought  against 
them,  these  pure  patriots  froni  our  section 
of  the  country  were  willing  to  place  tUcm- 
selves  ^  side  by  side  with  them  to  carry 
on  the  affairs  of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  was  represented  by  the  Honorable  l^rovineial 
Secretary  in  a  political  contest  that  ho  and  I 
had  together — and  which  ? — when   wo  wore 


in  the  field,  we  carried  on  pretty  plea- 
santly, notwithstanding  there  had  been  some 
rather  sharp  passages  at  arms  on  the  floor  of 
this  House  between  us  —  that  honorable 
gentleman,  in  excusing  himself  before  the 
electors  for  the  change  he  had  made  in  his 
views  on  the  (juestion  of  representation  by 
population,  said  the  financial  crisis  of  the 
country  had  become  so  much  more  imminent 
than  the  constitutional,  that  it  was  absolutely 
necessary  to  take  office — in  fact,  to  join  the 
gentlemen  of  Lower  Canada,  who  made  re- 
presentation by  population  a  close  question. 
We  must  look  after  the  purse-strings,  he  said, 
or  the  country  will  go  to  ruin.  It  is  very 
gratifying  now  to  find  that  honorable  gentle- 
man now  in  a  position  in  which  he  is  going  to 
create  so  much  larger  a  debt  than  before.  It 
is  quite  gratifying  to  find  him  now  seated  on 
the  Treasury  benches  advocating  the  addition- 
al burdens,  to  the  extent  of  millions  of  dollars, 
that  will  be  cast  upon  us  by  this  union  and 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway. 
At  one  time,  and  it  was  not  long  since,  this 
country  was  agitated  from  one  end  to  the 
other  with  the  statement  that  the  public  debt 
was  so  great  as  to  amount  to  a  mortgage  of 
§25  upon  every  cleared  acre  of  laud  in  the 
province,  and  now  those  who  made  this  state-  . 
ment  wish  to  add  millions  more  to  the  debt 
by  this  railway,  and  to  add  as  it  were  85  more 
to  the  debt  per  head  of  every  man  in  the  land. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Now,  if  the  Honorable  Pro- 
vincial Secretary  was  sincere  in  his  argument 
that  retrenchment  was  necessary  to  save  \is 
from  ruin,  how  can  he  reconcile  it  with  his 
sense  of  duty  and  propriety  that  he  should 
be  found  advocating  this  vast  extravagance  at 
this  time,  when  there  is  no  imminent  danger 
to  call  for  it,  but,  on  the  contrary,  a  degree  of 
prosperity  that  should  make  us  exceedingly 
careful  how  we  adopt  experimental  changes. 
I  find  honorable  gentlemen  complaining  of 
the  incapacity  of  our  railway."?  to  meet  the 
commercial  recjuirements  made  upon  them — 
to  do  the  business  of  the  country  properly. 
It  is  true  t!ie  crops  are  not  so  abundant  as 
they  were ;  no  foresight  or  management  will 
ensure  us  a  plentiful  harvest,  but  still,  ovon 
according  to  these  honorable  gentlomeu,  the 
trade  of  the  province  is  growing,  and  their 
statements  altogether  in  this  respect  do  not 
show  that  wo  arc  going  to  ruin.  A  people 
who  are  increasing  in  population  as  wo  arc 
increasing,  who  are  growing  in  wealth  as  wo 
are,  and  who,  over  and  above  all  our  expendi- 
ture, have  a  million  and  a  half  surplus  revenue, 
are  not  rushing  to  ruin  in  the  manner  that  has 


4<55 


been  represented  by  some  honorable  gentlemen. 
I  say,  then,  that  vi^e  ought  not  to  hasten  on  a 
change  that  may  prove  mjurious  tons,  -without 
asking  the  people  themselves  whether  they 
approve  of  it  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.)  So 
anxious  are  the  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  to  have  it  carried,  that  they 
even  quarrel  amongst  themselves  as  to  the 
parentage  of  the  scheme ;  and  the  House  was 
amused  the  other  day  when  the  Hon.  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council  took  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  West  to  task  because  that  honorable 
gentleman  presumed  to  say  that  it  was  his 
Government  that  had  first  brought  the  matter 
up.  (Laughter.)  They  appear  to  take  great 
pride  in  the  child,  but  this  country  of  ours, 
the  mother  of  the  bantling,  is  travailing  in 
agony  from  fear  of  the  burdens  that  these 
honorable  gentlemen  are  endeavoring  to  put 
upon  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Honorable 
Minister  of  Acrriculture  the  other  evenino; 
called  our  attention  to  the  affairs  that  are 
occurring  in  the  United  States,  and  spoke  of 
the  army  of  contractors  and  tas-gatherers 
that  was  springing  up  there.  He  said  that  the 
cry  of  "  Tax,  tax,  tax!"  came  up  perpetually 
from  the  tax-gatherers,  and  the  cry  of  "  Money, 
money,  money!"'  from  the  hordes  of  contrac- 
tors who  are  fattening  upon  the  miseries  of 
the  people ;  and  while  he  was  talking  of  the 
message  conveyed  to  us  in  the  sound 
of  every  gun  fired  in  the  United  States, 
he  may  have  thought  perhaps  that  in  the 
formation  of  this  union  and  the  building  of 
this  Intercolonial  Railway,  we  too  shall  hear 
the  cries  of  "  Tax,  tax,  tax !  money,  money, 
moiiey  !"  in  the  same  way.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
is  said  again,  in  reference  to  this  scheme,  that 
every  line  of  it  shows  a  compromise.  The 
Hon.  Minister  of  Agriculture,  if  I  remember 
right,  used  an  expression  of  that  kind.  But 
I  would  ask  the  President  of  the  Council  and 
those  who  with  him  have  been  advocating  the 
interests  of  Upper  Canada,  where  is  there  any 
concession  to  Upper  Canada  in  it  ?  If  they 
can  point  out  one  solitary  instance,  with  the 
exception  of  the  seventeen  additional  mem- 
bers given  to  the  west,  where  anything  has 
been  conceded  to  that  section,  then  I  will  say 
the  scheme  is  deserving  of  my  support.  But 
I  hold  that  the  additional  number  of  repre- 
sentatives given  to  Upper  Canada  is  no  boon 
or  concession.  The  difierences  between  the 
two  provinces  of  Canada  were  not  merely  na- 
tional diflferences,  but  were  of  a  sectional 
character.  It  was  the  West  arrayed  against 
the  east,  rather  than  nationality  against  na- 
tionality, for  was  it  not  a  fact  that  the  sixteen 


English-speaking  members  from  Lower  Cana- 
da united  themselves  with  the  French-Cana- 
dian majority,  and  not  with  the  majority  of 
their  own  race  in  Upper  Canada?  The  Eng- 
lish members  from  Central  Canada  did  the 
same  ;  and  I  contend,  therefore,  that  the  dif- 
ferences we  had  were  sectional  in  their  nature, 
and  that  we  had  no  national  differences  that 
rendered  a  change  at  this  time  necessary. 
Are  we  going  to  get  rid  of  these  sectional  dif- 
ferences by  this  scheme  ?  Will  not  the  thirty 
additional  members  called  into  this  legislature 
from  the  east  unite  with  the  Lower  Canadian 
majority,  and  will  not  the  same  preponderance 
of  influence  be  cast  against  Upper  Canada  as 
before  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  if  a  union  of 
free  people  is  to  be  brought  about,  it  should 
be  because  the  people  desire  it  and  feel  that  it 
is  advantageous  on  the  whole  ;  and  I  am  quite 
satisfied  that  if,  in  these  provinces,  we  are  to 
have  a  union  that  will  confer  any  advantage 
upon  us,  it  ought  to  be  a  Legislative  and  not 
a  Federal  union.  We  should  feel  that  if  we 
are  to  be  united,  it  ought  to  be  in  fact  as  well 
as  in  name ;  that  we  ought  to  be  one  people, 
and  not  separated  from  each  other  by  sec- 
tions ;  that  if  we  go  into  a  union,  it  ought  to 
be  such  a  union  as  would  make  us  one  people ; 
and  that  when  a  state  of  things  arises  favor- 
able to  such  a  union,  we  will  have  an  oppor- 
tunity of  forming  a  union  that  will  give  us 
strength  and  protect  our  interests  in  all  time 
to  come.  The  Honorable  President  of  the 
Council  thinks  that  we  should  enter  the  union 
proposed  for  the  purpose  of  protecting  and 
defendinnr  ourselves.  I  would  like  to  know 
of  that  honorable  gentleman  if  he  thinks  that 
we,  with  a  population  of  two  millions  and  a 
half,  can  create  a  sufficient  armament,  and  raise 
a  sufficient  number  of  men  to  repel  the  mil- 
lions of  the  United  States,  should  they  choose 
to  attack  us?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not  sup- 
pose, Mr.  Speaker,  that  there  would  be  any 
more  ready  to  defend  the  honor  and  integrity 
of  Great  Britain  in  this  country  than  those 
who  feel  as  I  do  in  reference  to  this  matter  ; 
and  I  am  satisfied  that,  even  with  the  know- 
ledge of  certain  destruction  before  us,  if  at- 
tacked by  the  United  States,  we  would  have 
defenders  springing  up  at  any  moment — de- 
fenders to  sell  their  lives  as  dearly  as  possible, 
and  to  fight  inch  by  inch  before  they  would 
be  compelled  to  surrender  the  honor  of  the 
British  Crown.  But  still,  sir,  we  cannot  help 
feeling  the  vast  disparity  of  numbers  between 
us  and  the  United  States  ;  we  can  form  no  ar- 
mament that  could  repel  them  from  every  por- 
tion of  our  territory,  and  spending  millions  now 


456 


in  that  direction  is  but  crippling  our  resources 
and  weakening  us  for  the  time  of  need.  If 
these  moneys  we  now  propose  to  spend  in  that 
way  were  carefully  husbanded,  we  will  have 
them  when  the  necessity  arises,  and  be  able  to 
use  them  to  better  purpose  than  in  defending 
ourselves.  (Hear,  hear.)  Some  say  that 
Canada  is  defensible,  and  others  say  that  it  is 
entirely  defenceless ;  but  I  apprehend  that 
there  are  certain  points  in  the  country  which 
could  be  so  fortified  that  they  could  be  held 
against  any  foe.  While  so  held,  the  rest  of 
the  country  would  probably  be  under  the  con- 
trol of  the  enemy,  and  would  remain  so  until 
the  fate  of  war  decided  whether  we  were  to 
remain  as  we  were  or  be  absorbed  in  the 
neighboring  union.  Now,  it  was  said  by  the 
Hon.  Minister  of  Agriculture  that  we  are  to 
have  fortifications  at  St.  John,  New  Bruns- 
wick ;  and  if  this  union  is  to  be  brought 
about  in  order  that  we  may  be  taxed  for  the 
purpose  of  constructing  fortifications  in  New 
Brunswick,  it  will  certainly  be  of  little  service 
to  the  people  of  Canada  in  preventing  their 
country  being  invaded  and  overrun  by  an 
enemy.  Fortifications  in  St.  John,  New 
Brunswick,  would  not  protect  us  from  the  foe, 
if  the  foe  were  to  come  here.  They,  of  course, 
would  be  an  advantage  to  the  country  at  large 
and  aid  in  sustaining  the  British  dominion  in 
this  part  of  the  continent,  and  so  far  we  would 
not  object  to  contribute  to  a  reasonable  ex- 
tent to  an  expenditure  of  that  kind  ;  but  I  do 
say  that  it  would  be  quite  impossible  by  for- 
tifications to  make  the  country  so  defensible 
that  wc  co;ild  resist  aggression  on  t]\e  part  of 
the  United  States  at  every  point.  To  endea- 
vor to  make  it  so  would.be  a  waste  of  money. 

Mr.  McKELLAR.  —  What  would  you 
do  then  ?     Surrender  to  the  enemy  ? 

Mr.  CAMERON.— No,  I  would  not. 

Mr.  McKELLAR.— What  would  you  do 
if  you  neither  spent  money  nor  surrendered? 

Mr.  CAMERON— We  would  do  as  many 
brave  people  have  done  before  when  they  were 
attacked ;  and  the  country  from  which  the 
honorable  gentleman  comes  is  a  marked  exam- 
ple of  what  a  small  nation  can  do  against 
overwhelming  numbers,  without  fortifications, 
such  as  it  is  here  propo.scd  to  put  up.  (Hear, 
licir.) 

Hon.  Mil.  BROWN — It  is  something  new 
that  a  country  can  be  defended  without  forti- 
fications.     (I fear,  hear.) 

Mr.  CAMERON— I  do  not  know  whether 
honorable  gentlemen  mean  that  this  country 
is  cripablo  of  undertaking  the  expenses  that 
would  be  necessary  to  put  it  in  such  a  state  of 


defence  as  to  enable  it  to  resist  the  aggression 
of  the  United  States.  I  want  to  know  whe- 
ther with  two  and  a  half  millions  of  people, 
we  could  cope  with  an  army  of  millions — be- 
cause the  United  States  have  shown  that  they 
are  capable  of  raising  such  an  army — or  make 
fortifications  that  could  resist  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  Hon.  Provincial  Secretary  has 
spoken  on  the  floor  of  Parliament  as  well  as 
to  the  electors  in  the  country,  to  the  effect 
that  it  was  retrenchment  we  needed  more  than 
constitutional  changes ;  and  yet  now  he  says 
that  the  people  are  not  to  have  one  word  to 
say  in  reference  to  these  vital  changes  that  are 
proposed,  and  the  vastly  increased  expenditure 
that  is  to  take  place.  In  addressing  this 
House  in  1862,  he  said — ''  The  finances  of  the 
country  are  growing  worse  and  worse,  and  a 
cheek  must  be  applied.  It  was  chiefly  for  this 
cause  that  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  desired 
a  change  in  the  representation."'  Now,  I 
should  like  to  understand  how  a  union  with 
800,000  people,  with  immense  expenditure,  is 
going  to  improve  our  finances,  which,  accord- 
ing to  the  honorable  gentleman,  are  *•' growing 
worse  and  worse."  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  not 
heard  in  what  has  been  yet  said  on  the  subject 
of  these  resolutions,  anything  to  show  me  how 
this  great  increase  and  improvement  is  going 
to  take  place  by  a  union  with  less  than  a  mil- 
lion of  people;  but  arguments  for  the  union, 
when  directed  merely  to  the  material  interests 
that  will  be  served  by  it,  are  arguments  ten-fold 
stronger  in  favor  of  union  with  the  United 
States.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  arguments  of 
honorable  gentlemen  all  point  that  way,  because 
they  say  it  is  to  our  interest  to  be  joined  with 
the  800,000  people  of  the  provinces,  who  will 
furnish  us  with  a  market  for  our  produce, 
when  we  have  on  the  other  side  of  the  line 
thirty  millions  of  people  to  furnish  us  a  mar- 
ket. Arguments  of  this  kind,  urging  the 
measure  because  our  material  interests  will  be 
promoted  by  it,  are,  therefore,  arguments  for 
union  with  the  United  States  ratlier  thanwitli 
the  Lower  Provinces ;  but  union  with  the 
United  States,  I  hope,  will  never  take  place. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Still  I  cannot  help  believing 
that  this  is  the  tendency  of  the  measure  ;  for 
when  we  have  a  legislature  in  each  provinc", 
willi  powers  coordinate  with  those  of  the 
Federal  Legislature — or  if  not  possessing  co- 
ordinate powers,  having  the  same  right  at  least 
to  legislate  upon  some  subjects  as  tl>e  General 
Legislature — there  are  certain  to  arise  disagree- 
ments between  the  Jjocal  and  the  General 
JjCgislature,  which  will  lead  the  people  to  de- 
mand changes  that  may  destroy  our  connection 


457 


with  the  Mother  Country.  The  Federal  cha- 
racter of  the  United  States  Government  has 
been  referred  to  to  prove  that  it  has  increased 
the  prosperity  of  the  people  living  under  it; 
but  in  point  of  fact  the  great  and  relentless 
war  that  is  now  raging  there — that  fratricidal 
war  in  which  brother  is  arrayed  against  bro- 
ther, filled  with  hatred  toward  each  other, 
and  which  has  plunged  the  country  into  all 
the  horrors  of  the  deadliest  strife — is  the 
strongest  comment  upon  the  working  of 
the  Federal  principle — the  strongest  argu- 
ment against  its  application  to  these  pro- 
vinces. (Hear,  hear.)  The  French  element 
in  Lower  Canada  will  be  separated  from  us 
in  its  Local  Legislature  and  become  less  united 
with  us  than  it  is  now ;  and  therefore  there 
is  likely  to  be  disagreement  between  us.  Still 
more  likely  is  there  to  be  disagreement 
when  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  find  that 
.this  scheme  will  not  relieve  them  of  the  bur- 
dens cast  upon  them,  but,  on  the  contrary, 
will  subject  them  to  a  legislature  that  will  have 
the  power  of  imposing  direct  taxation  in  addi- 
tion to  the  burdens  imposed  by  the  General 
Government.  When  they  fiad  that  this 
power  is  exercised,  and  they  are  called  upon 
to  contribute  as  much  as  before  to  the  Gene- 
ral Government,  while  taxed  to  maintain  a  sep- 
arate Local  Legislatui'e — when  they  find  that 
the  material  question  is  to  weigh  with  them, 
they  will  look  to  the  other  side  of  the  line  for 
union.  I  feel  that  we  are  going  to  do  that 
which  will  weaken  our  connection  with  the 
Mother  Country,  because  if  you  give  power  to 
legislate  upon  the  same  subjects  to  both  the 
local  and  the  federal  legislatures,  and  allow 
both  to  impose  taxation  upon  the  people,  dis- 
agreements will  spring  up  which  must  neces- 
sarily have  that  efiect.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then 
again,  by  this  scheme  that  is  laid  before  us, 
certain  things  are  to  be  legislated  upon  by 
both  the  general  and  the  local  legislatures, 
and  yet  the  local  legislation  is  to  be  subor- 
dinate to  the  leo-islation  of  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment.  For  instance,  emigration  and  agricul- 
ture are  to  be  subject  to  the  control  of  both 
bodies.  Now  suppose  that  the  Federal  Legis- 
lature chooses  to  decide  in  favor  of  having 
emigration  flow  to  a  particular  locality,  so  as 
to  benefit  one  province  alone — I  do  not  mean 
this  expression  to  be  understood  in  its  entire 
sense,  because  I  think  that  emigration  in  any 
one  portion  will  benefit  the  whole,  but  it  will 
benefit  the  particular  locality  much  more  at 
the  time — and  if  provision  is  made  by  the 
General  Legislature  for  emigration  of  that 
kind,  and  grants  are  made  from  the  public 
59 


funds  to  carry  it  out,  it  will  cause  much  com- 
plaint, as  the  people  who  are  paying  the  great- 
est proportion  of  the  revenue  will  be  subject 
to  the  drafts  upon  them  as  before.  Suppose 
again,  for  instance,  that  arrangements  are 
made  for  emigration  to  a  particular  part  of 
Lower  Canada  or  New  Brunswick,  and  a 
grant  is  made  for  the  purpose,  who  is  to  say 
whether  it  is  for  the  local  or  general  good  ? 
It  is  the  Federal  Legislature  that  has  to  pro- 
nounce upon  it.  The  expenditure  and  the 
benefit  would  be  received  by  a  portion  of  the 
province  lying  remote  from  that  which  pays 
the  largest  proportion  of  the  money,  and  so 
we  would  not  be  relieved  from  the  difficulties 
that  have  existed  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  This  being  the  case,  the  reasoning 
on  which  this  whole  scheme  is  based  falls  to 
the  ground.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  this  question 
has  been  of  some  service.  It  has  enabled  us  to 
ascertain  what  our  debt  is.  This  \ve  have  never 
previously  been  enabled  with  certaiuty  to  find 
out.  Our  highest  authorities  have  widely  dif- 
fered in  footing  it  up.  I  recollect  the  Hon. 
President  of  the  Council  asserting  that  our 
debt  was  eighty-five  millions  of  dollars. 

Hon.  Mr.  BBOWN— When  did  you  hear 
that  ? 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  heard  it  in 
one  of  the  speeches  which  you  made  on  the 
floor  of  this  House.  You  remarked  that  you 
had  gone  to  the  Auditor  that  very  morning 
and  found  the  debt  to  be  eighty-five  millions. 

Hon.  Mr.  BBOWN— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman is  mistaken  in  the  first  figure.  It  was 
seventy-five  millions  that  I  stated. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  think  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  has  made  a  mistake.  Iwill 
show  him  that  his  memory  is  short  on  this 
occasion. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Very  good. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— You  said  the 
debt  was  $85,000,000,  but  that  there  was 
the  Sinking  fund  and  the  Municipal  Loan  in- 
debtedness which  together  would  amount  to 
some  fourteen  or  fifteen  millions  of  dollars, 
which  would  reduce  the  amount  to  about 
$70,000,000  of  direct  debt. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— (Hear,  hear.)  Why 
did  you  not  say  that  at  first  ? 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— Wen,  I  did  not 
design  to  catch  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  in  the  trap  that  he  had  laid  for  him- 
self. (Hear,  hear.)  We  have  now  found 
that  our  debt  is  not  so  much  as  that  honorable 
gentleman  led  us  to  suppose  it  was.  The 
fourteen  or  fifteen  millions  did  not  belong  to 
ua  at  all.     But  the  honorable  gentleman,  since 


458 


he  has  been  so  closely  connected  with  those 
old  corruptionists,  has  discovered  that  it  is 
only  sixty-seven  and  a  half  millions.  Well, 
the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  has  also 
said,  and  has  acknowledged  it  too,  that  he 
was  very  much  opposed  to  the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  and  when  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  made  the  observation  that  he 
learned  from  a  brief  paragraj^h  in  a  paper 
called  the  Ghhe,  that  Messrs.  Sicotte  and 
HoWLAND  were  about  to  return,  having  ac- 
complished the  object  uf  their  mission,  viz : 
to  throw  overboard  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  remarked, 
that  that  was  "  a  very  sensible  thing — the 
most  sensible  thing  they  ever  did."  But  now 
the  honorable  gentleman  goea  so  heartily  into 
this  matter,  that  he  will  build  this  vast  rail- 
way which  it  was  so  sensible  to  throw  over- 
board at  that  time,  and  I  think  he  went  so 
far  as  to  say  he  would  build  five  intercolonial 
railways  rather  than  that  the  scheme  should 
faU. 

Several    Hon.    MEMBERS— Six;    he 
said  six. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— Well,  we  will 
give  him  the  benetit  of  one,  and  yet  I  have 
not  been  able  to  hear  him  express  in  pounds, 
shillings  an  pence  the  practical  benetit  there 
is  to  be  derived  by  this  country  as  compensa- 
tion for  the  expense  of  building  that  useless 
thing  that  it  was  so  sensible  to  throw  over- 
board  two  years  ago  ;  sensible  even  though  the 
persons  who  went  home  were  charged  with  act- 
ing falsely  by  the  people  of  the  Lower  Provinces, 
and  the  honorable  geotlemau  commended  their 
throwing  it  overboard  at  the  risk  of  our  being 
charged  with  a  breac)'.  of  good  faith.  (Hear, 
hear.)  JSow,  looking  at  ihis  scheme  politi- 
cally, I  do  not  see  that  we  gain  any  advantage 
from  it.  '1  do  not  see  that  it  secures  to  ua 
peace  for  the  fuiure.  I  do  not  think  that  it 
secures  us  against  the  Honorable  Jt'resideut  ol 
the  Council  coming  forward  again  as  the 
member  for  South  Oxford  or  for  some  other 
constituency,  and  shaking  our  whole  political 
fabric  by  his  violent  agitations.  1  do  not 
think  it  prevents  our  having  political  fire- 
brands in  this  country  such  as  we  have  had. 
1  do  not  think  it  prevents  our  having  the 
same  diiiiculties  on  the  fioor  of  the  Federal 
Legislature  as  we  have  had  on  the  floor  oi  this 
House.  (Hear,  hear.)  V\  e  may  have,  with 
all  the  additional  exjxjnse  we  shall  have  gone 
to  in  order  to  obviate  it,  the  same  thing 
enacted  over  again.  (Hear,  hear.)  Com- 
mercially, it  does  not  promise  to  give  us  an 
advantage  that  will  warrant  the  expenditure. 


We  are  only  to  supply  800,000  people  with 
our  products.  But  it  is  said  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces will  have  lands  of  a  fertile  character, 
and  that  when  the  railway  is  built  they  will 
be  able  to  grow  enough  produce  to  support 
themselves,  and  we  must  find  a  market  far 
beyond  the  market  that  the  Lower  Provinces 
could  possibly  give  us.  And  it  is  said  that  it 
would  be  desirable  to  create  a  trade  with  the 
West  Indies ;  but  that  may  be  done  just  as 
well  without  going  to  the  expense  of  a  union 
with  the  Lower  Provinces  and  a  double  set  of 
parliaments.  Let  us  have  a  union  in  which 
we  are  each  looking  out  for  the  common  inter- 
est, and  not  each  for  his  own  individual  benefit. 
Commercially,  then,  it  does  not  bold  out  such 
inducements  that  we  need  to  have  all  this 
haste  in  pushing  it  through  and  preventing 
the  people  from  pronouncing  upon  it.  In  a 
military  sen.se  it  does  not  hold  out  the  induce- 
ment that  we  will  get  by  it  from  the  Lower 
Provinces  either  such  jissistance  in  men  or 
money  as  to  make  it  an  object  to  unite 
with  them.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  a  sectional 
point  of  view  the  people  of  Lower  Canada 
can  see  what  they  are  to  get.  I  cannot  see 
that  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  are  to  be 
any  better  protected  from  the  means  that  hon- 
orable gentleman  has  made  use  of  to  create 
all  the  diificulty  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  that  has  existed  so  long,  and  to  get 
rid  of  which  this  expensive  scheme  is  pro- 
posed. Upper  Canada,  it  is  said,  will  have 
the  control  of  the  expenditure,  because  they 
will  have  seventeen  members  more  in  the  Fed- 
eral Legislature  than  Lower  Canada  ;  but  how 
easily  their  influence  can  be  checked  and  com- 
pletely swamped  by  the  addition  of  forty-seven 
members  from  the  Lower  Provinces  !  (^Hear, 
hear.)  Looking  at  it  in  all  these  aspects,  I 
am  at  a  loss  to  understand  what  great  benefit 
there  is  in  the  Confederation  scheme  to  call 
for  its  being  put  through  in  such  a  hurried 
manner.  Hon.  Mr.  Grey  said  in  the  Low- 
er Provinces  that  it  might  be  years  be- 
fore the  change  would  come  into  efieet ;  that  it 
would  take  years  to  think  about  it.  Ho  said, 
"  It  is  not  intended  to  hurry  tlie  proposed 
scheme  into  actual  life  and  operation  ;  it  is 
not  to  be  carried  out  to-day,  but  years  may 
roll  by  before  it  is  carried  into  eficct."  This 
(juotatiou  oecurs  in  a  speech  made  by  Hon. 
Mr.  Grjoy  at  St.  John,  on  the  17th  Novem- 
ber last.  Now  that  honorable  gentleman  also 
takes  a  very  diUereut  view  of  what  is  being 
boasted  ol'  liere,  the  impising  of  direct  taxa- 
tion lor  the  supjM)rt  of  the  local  governmeuts, 
of  which  be  disapproved.     Honorable  gentle- 


459 


men  here,  however,  have  said  that  they  were 
in  favor  of  direct  taxation  for  the  support  of 
the  local  governments,  because  it  would  lead 
those  who  have  to  pay  the  taxes  to  look  more 
closely  into  what  was  going  on,  and  the  man- 
ner  in   which   their   money    was   expended. 
(Hear,  hear.)    There  seems  also  to  have  been 
a  feeling  in  the  Lower  Provinces  in  favor  of 
a  legislative  union,  and  the  Hon.  Mr.  Grey 
seems  to  be  combatting  that  idea.     He  says 
that  with  a  legislative  union,  municipal  insti- 
tutions, and  direct  taxation  in  every  province, 
would  be  the  only  means  of   getting  along. 
He  expressed  himself  as  opposed  to  that  and 
in  favor  of  a  Federal  union,  which  he  thought 
would  afford  them  all  the  advantage  that  could 
be  attained,    commercially,    by    union,    and 
would  allow  each  province  to  retain  control 
over  its  own  local  affairs.     The  local  legisla- 
tures, he  said,  were  to  be  deprived  of  no  power 
over    their   own  affairs   that   they   formerly 
possessed.     But  in  Canada  it  was  represented 
that  the  local  legislatures  were  to  be  only  the 
shadow  of  the  General  Legislature — that  they 
were  to  have  merely  a  shadow  of  power,  as  all 
their  proceedings  were  to  be  controlled  by 
the  Federal  Government.     That  is  the  posi- 
tion taken  by  the  advocates  of  the  measure 
on  this  floor.     So  it  seems  that  those  gentle- 
men who  have  represented   to   us  that  they 
acted  in  great  harmony,  and  came  to  a  com- 
mon decision  when  they  were  in  conference, 
take  a  widely  different  view  of  the  questions 
supposed  to  have  been  agreed  upon,  and  give 
very   different  accounts   of  what  were    the 
views  of  parties  to  the  conference  on   the 
various    subjects.     (Hear,    hear.)     In    the 
Lower  Provinces  they  were  strongly  opposed 
to  direct  taxation,  while  here  it  was  present 
ed  as  one  of  the  advantages  to  accrue  from 
the  Federation.     (Cries  of  No,  no.)     Well, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  say  yes.     That  view  of  the 
case  has  been  taken.     If  the  amount  allowed 
for  the  expenses  of  local  legislation — the  80 
cents  per  head — was  found   insufficient,  the 
local  parliam^ts  must  resort  to  direct  taxa- 
tion to  make  up  the  deficiency,  while  in  the 
Lower  Provinces,  it  seems,  nothing  of  that 
kind  was  to  follow.     Now,  all  the  gentlemen 
who  have  spoken  on  the  Government  side  of 
the  House  have  declared   that  this  scheme 
was  a  greit  si'heme  ;  but  they  have  declined 
to  allow  us  to  understand  what  sort  of  a  local 
legislature   we  are   to   have      They  will  not 
tell  us  how  our  Executive  is  to   be  formed. 
They  wi     not  tell  v.s  whether  we  are  to  have 
legislative  councils    in    L'pper  and  ].ower 
Canada,  and  whether  or  not  they  will  be 


elected  councils.     They  will  not  tell  us  what 
number    of    members    will    constitute    the  . 
Executive   Council   of    the    Confederation, 
nor  what  influence  each  individual  province 
will  have  in  that  government.     They  will  not 
bring  down  the  s  cheme  for  the  local  legisla- 
tures.    They  tell  us  that  it  is  better  to  with- 
hold those  details — that  we  are  dealing  with 
Federation  alone,  and  have  no  business  dis- 
cussing local  governments.     What  is  the  ob- 
ject  of   all  this   vagueness?      Is  it   politic 
or   statesmanlike   to    tell    us    that  we,  the 
representatives  of  a  free  people,  are  not  to 
know  anything  about   these  things,  but.f 
vote   with  our  eyes  shut  ?     I  hold  that  wt 
ought  to  have  the  whole  scheme  before  us, 
but  they  say  we  shall  know  nothing  about 
it.     And   yet  they  contipue  to  say  it  is  a 
great  scheme.    Well,  if  it  is  a  great  scheme, 
and  they  continue  to  deal  with  it  and  with 
this   House  in  this  way,  are   not  they,  the 
architects    and    fabricators    of   this    great 
scheme,    fairly  entitled   to  be  called    great 
schemers?  (Laughter.)  Are  they  not  treating 
us  as  a  lot  of  school-boys  ?     As  an  evidence 
of  the  excellence   and    popularity  of  their 
scheme,  they  point  to  the  circumstance  that 
they  have  formed  a  strong  government  upon 
the  question,  with  a  majority  of  seventy  in 
this  House,  while  two  governments  preced- 
ing them  could  each  only  muster  a  majority 
of  two.     And   because  they  are    so   strong 
they  feel  themselves  at   liberty  to  deny  to 
the    people's    representatives    the   right    to 
have  information  on  a  most  important  mat- 
ter  of  this  kind — information   they    would 
not  have   dared    to  withhold  if  they  were 
weak.     (Hear,  hear.)     When    a   motion  is 
placed  on  the  nDtice  paper  of  this  House  for 
several  days,  requiring  a  statement  of  the 
portion  of  the  debt  which  Lower  Canada  and 
Upper  Canada  respectively  will  have  to  pay, 
they  tell  us  that  they  cannot  submit  to  the 
House  any  information  of  that  kind.     Is  it 
possible  that  the  hon.  gentlemen  composing 
the  Government  have  not  determined  that 
question   at  this   stage    of   the    proceeding, 
and  that  they  have  not  yet  made  up  their 
minds    respecting   it  ?     If  they   have    not, 
it    shows    that     they    have    been    trifling 
with  their  position,  and  have  not  been  dis- 
charging the  duties   devolving  upon  them. 
It  has  also  been  represented  that  this  matter 
has  been  so  fully  before  the  country  for  a 
great  length  of  time,  that  it  is  not  qeoessary 
to  snb;ii't  it  to  a  vote.     I  would  ask  in  what 
way  has  it  been  before  the  country  ?     Why, 
it  was  declared,  in  the  first  instance,  by  the 


460 


press,  that  it  was  not  possible  the  measure 
could  be  passed  until  it  had  been  submitted  i 
to  the  people  ',  it  was  looked  upon  as  a  thing  j 
which  was  quite  impossible.  There  is  no 
doubt  the  organ  of  the  Ministry  in  Toronto 
— the  organ  more  particularly  of  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council — did  declare  Irom  the 
first,  as  if  throwing  out  a  feeler,  that  it 
would  not  be  necessary  to  submit  it  to  the 
people.  But  the  }  ress  generally  took  a 
diflerent  view  of  the  question,  when  out  came 
that  remarkable  circular  from  the  Provincial 
Secretary's  office — (hear,  hoar) — which  had 
such  a  magical  effect,  that  at  orice  the  story 
was  changed,  and  the  advocacy  was  begun  of 
disposing  of  the  question  without  submitting 
it  to  the  people,  although  the  people  them- 
selves never  dreamt  that  it  could  be  carried 
through  this  House  and  become  a  fixed  fact 
until  that  step  was  taken.  I  do  not  see  how 
any  man,  who  docs  not  desire  to  make  him- 
self amenable  to  the  charge  of  a  breach  of 
the  trust  reposed  in  him,  can  come  here,  and 
without  consulting  those  who  sent  him, 
change  a  Constitution  affecting  the  well-being 
of  millions.  (Hear,  hear.)  Those  who 
have  to  pay  for  all  this — who  provide  thr; 
revenue  for  carrying  on  the  affairs  of  the 
country — are  not  at  liberty  to  express  their 
views  ou  the  subject  in  the  legitimate  way 
known  to  the  Constitution.  It  is  argued 
that  there  have  been  no  petitions  presented 
against  Confederation  ;  but  where,  1  ask,  has 
there  been  any  agitation  in  reference  to  the 
question  ?  Where  has  it  been  contested  at 
the  polls?  I  stand  here  an  elected  member, 
who  ran  against  the  Provincial  Secretary, 
when,  as  a  nieraber  of  the  government 
formed  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  out  this 
scheme,  he  returned  to  his  constituents  for 
reelection,  and  I  succeeded  in  defeating  him. 
So  i'ar,  therefore,  as  the  people  of  North 
Ontaiio  have  spoken  at  all,  their  pionounc- 
ing,  in  one  way,  has  been  against  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Hear  !  hear! 

Mr.  M.  C,  CAMERON- T  do  not  mean 
to  say,  Mr.  Spkakku,  that  they  did  pro- 
nounce definitely  against  it 

Hon.  Mr.  BIIOWN— Hear  !  hear! 

Mr.  M  C.  CAMERON— For  when  it  was 
being  discussed,  I  told  them  I  was  not  pre- 
pared to  pronounce  against  it  myself 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWxN- Hear!  hear! 

Mk.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  said  that  I 
must  know  what  the  scheme  was  before  I 
could  say  whether  I  would  vote  for  it  or 
against  it. 

Hon.  Ma.  BROWN— Hear !  iiear ! 


?.Ir.  M.  C.  CAMERON— But  this  much 
is  certain,  that  the  President  of  the  Council 
who  took  the  trouble  to  go  into  the  riding, 
to  stump  it,  to  hold  meetings  there,  and  to 
speak  against  me  at  every  meeting  he  held, 
took  the  opportunity  of  declaring  that  unless 
the  Provincial  Secretary  was  returned,  it 
would  seriously  damage  and  endanger  the 
scheme.  And  notwithstanding  all  these 
warnings,  the  people  thought  fit  to  return 
me      (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  MxVCDOUGALL-Will  the 
hon.  gentleman  allow  mc  to  interrupt  him  ? 
Does  the  hon.  gentleman  mean  to  convey  to 
this  House  the  impression  that  he  did  not 
declare  himself  in  favor  of  the  policy  of  the 
Government  on  the  subject  of  Federation  ? 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  mean  very 
distinctly  to  say  that  I  did  not  declare  my- 
self in  favor  of  the  policy  of  the  Government. 
CHear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Oh  !  oh  ! 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  declared  there 
as  I  declare  here,  that  I  was  in  favor  of  a 
union  of  the  provinces.  But  whether  the 
union  contemplated  was  a  union  which  could 
be  approved  of,  or  whether  it  would  be  to 
the  advantage  of  the  country,  I  w«s  unable 
to  say  until  I  more  fully  understood  the 
scheme,  and  the  hon.  gentleman  was  not  in 
a  position  at  that  time  to  explain  the  scheme, 
or  to  say  what  it  was. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— How  about  the 
elections  to  the  Upper  House  ? 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  think  there 
were  two  electioi.s  only  for  the  Upper  House 
iu  whi(.h  the  question  was  a  test  one. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Which  were  they  ? 

Ma.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  think  Saugeen 
was  oue. 

Mr.  THOMAS  FERGUSON— Oh,  but 
Saugeen  would  have  been  carried  by  us,  no 
matter  whether  there  was  Confederation  or 
no  Confederation.  (Laughter.)  Everybody 
knows  that. 

Mr.  M.  C.  (WMERON— Be  that  as  it 
may,  I  am  quite  satisfied  ^he  people  were 
under  the  impression,  and  that  the  candi- 
dates who  appeared  before  them  wore  also 
under  the  impression,  that  this  thing  would 
never  become  law — that  tins  Constitution  of 
our.'^  would  never  be  changed,  without  the 
constituencies  having  an  opportunity  of  pro- 
nouncing upon  it.  [t  wa.s  never  supplied 
that  the  people's  representatives,  sent  here 
lor  an  entirely  diflerent  purposi',  would  pre- 
sume or  iLssunie  to  setasidetho  Constitution, 
to  make  a  complete  rovoiutiou  iu  the  affairs 


461 


of  the  country,  to  involve  them  in  a  much 
larger  expenditure,  to  change  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  Upper  House  completely,  to  bring 
in  an  additional  number  of  representatives 
from  Upper  Canada,  and  to  add  a  new 
element  of  forty-seven  members  altogether 
to  the  Lower  House.  I  say  I  am  persuaded 
the  people  did  not  understand  that  this  was 
to  be  done  without  their  having  an  oppor- 
tunity of  speaking  upon  it,  and  of  saying 
whether  they  approved  of  it  or  not.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  I  scarcely  can  believe  that  we 
will  be  able  to  find,  at  this  late  day  of  the 
world's  history,  in  a  free  country  such  as 
Canada,  among  a  people  who  understand 
what  are  their  rights  and  liberties,  a  govern- 
ment prepared  to  act  in  so  unconstitutional 
a  manner — a  government  ready  to  tyrannize 
and  to  assume  the  part  of  an  oligarchy. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  this  Government  is  pre- 
pared to  act  thus.  They  tell  their  followers 
that  they  are  at  their  peril  to  accept  the 
scheme  just  as  it  is,  that  they  are  not  at 
liberty  to  change  a  single  word  of  it,  and  if 
they  do  so  they  will  defeat  the  whole  project. 
That,  however,  is  not  the  way  in  which  hon, 
gentlemen  in  the  Lower  Provinces  deal  with 
this  question.  Hon,  Mr.  Tilley,  in  Nova 
Scotia,  only  two  or  three  days  ago,made  the  de- 
claration that  if  the  people's  representatives 
choose  to  alter  the  resolutions,  they  were  at 
liberty  to  do  so.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  yet 
we  in  Canada  are  gravely  told  that  we  are 
not  to  be  allowed  to  exercise  any  judgment 
or  to  pronounce  any  opinion  upon  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  regard  the  scheme  itself  as  having 
been  got  up  hastily,  for  it  bears  upon  its  face 
the  evidence  of  haste  and  of  coiijpromise. 
Indeed,  it  is  a  complete  piece  of  patchwork, 
and  as  we  are  all  aware,  it  is  a  piece  of  patch- 
work in  which  we  are  not  to  be  at  liberty  to 
change  the  patches  in  any  respect  so  as  to 
make  it  look  better  to  the  eye  or  more  en- 
during to  those  who  will  have  to  wear  it. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  On  the  subject 
of  the  Legislative  Council,  it  does  strike  me 
that  the  language  is  not  such  as  to  convey 
the  idea  that  hon.  members  of  this  House 
have  said  it  ought  to  convey.  The  14th 
section  reads  thus  : — 

The  first  selection  of  the  members  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council  shall  be  made,  except  as  regards 
Prince  Edward  Island,  from  the  legislative  coun- 
cils of  the  various  provinces. 

You  will  observe  the  language — '*  From  the 
legislative  councils  of  the  various  provin- 
ces."   That  is,  from  the  legislative  councils 


now  in  existence.  "  So  far/'  the  clause  goes 
on  to  say,  "  as  a  sufficient  number  be  found 
qualified  and  willing  to  serve  ;  such  members 
shall  be  appointed  by  the  Crown  at  the 
recommendation  of  the  Greneral  Executive 
Grovernment,  upon  the  nomination  of  the 
respective  local  governments."  Honorable 
gentlemen  say  that  means,  upon  the  nomina- 
tion, so  far  as  Canada  is  concerned,  of  the 
present  Government.  I  presume  that  in  the 
nature  of  things,  the  hon.  gentlemen  who 
are  at  present  administering  our  affairs  anti- 
cipate that  they  will  be  the  coutroll(3rs  of  our 
destiny,  for  some  time  at  all  events,  in  the 
Federal  Government.  So  that  they  are  going 
themselves  to  nominate  to  themselves.  Is 
that  the  object  of  the  clause  ?  In  point  of 
fact,  would  it  be  such  in  its  operation,  because 
before  these  nominations  can  take  place,  I 
assume  that  the  Executive  Government 
must  be  in  existence,  and  that  when  the 
Federal  Government  comes  into  existence, 
the  present  Government  will  cease  co-in- 
stanti.  I  take  it  that  so  soon  as  the 
Imperial  Act  passed,  there  would  be  an 
end  to  the  present  arrangements,  and  that 
the  local  legislatures  and  the  General  Le- 
gislature would  be  brought  into  existence  at 
the  same  moment.  The  present  Government 
of  United  Canada  would  cease  to  exist.  And 
how  then  would  the  nominations  to  the 
Legislative  Council  take  place,  from  this 
Government  to  the  Executive  Government 
of  the  Confederation  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  In 
one  way,  these  resolutions  maybe  considered 
as  only  an  outline  of  the  Constitution.  But 
they  seem  to  have  descended  to  very  small 
details.  For  instance,  they  say  that  a  mem- 
ber who  is  absent  from  the  Council  for  two 
sessions  shall  vacate  his  seat.  This  is  a  very 
small  piece  of  detail,  and  I  regard  it  also  as 
a  very  unjust  piece  of  detail,  because  the 
cause  of  a  member's  absence  may  be  sickness, 
and  it  may  be  the  case  that  a  member  would 
be  sick  during  the  period  of  two  sittings 
of  Parliament  and  wall  immediately  after- 
wards. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— In  that  case  he 
might  be  excused. 

Another  HoxN.  MEMBER— Or  he  could 
be  re-appointed. 

Mr.  M.  C  CAMERON— There  is  no 
provision  for  any  such  thing;  and  I  hold 
that  when  they  went  into  detail  such  as  this, 
the  details  ought  to  be  full  enough  to  prove 
what  is  meant.  But  if  it  is  not  detail — if  it 
is  mere  skeleton — why  did  they  introduce 
this  at  all  ?     Why  not  simply  say  that  the 


462 


Legislative  Council  should  be  nominated  for 
life  ?  We  are  also  told  that  we  are  to  have 
under  the  control  of  the  federal  and  local 
governments  the  sea-coast  and  inland  fish- 
eries. Of  course  it  is  impossible  for  me  to 
say  what  they  mean  to  do  with  these  things, 
but  this  is  a  clause  out  of  which,  at  all 
events,  disagreements  might  arise.  To  shew 
what  little  care  has  been  exercised  in  the 
wording  ol  these  resolutions,  in  one  place 
they  speak  of  the  seal  of  the  General  Gov- 
ernment, and  in  another  place  they  speak  of 
the  seal  of  the  "  Federated  Provinces."  I 
presume  there  is  no  such  thing  as  a  seal  of 
a  general  government.  It  is  the  seal  of  the 
nation — ot  the  country  in  its  entirety  ;  the 
same  as  we  speak  of  our  own  seal  as  the 
Great  ^eal  of  the  province.  There  may  not 
be  much  in  this  j  but  it  shews,  at  any  rate, 
a  want  of  care  in  the  compilation  of  this 
document ;  it  shews  that  they  have  not 
studied  each  resolution  with  a  desire  to 
make  it  a  perfect  thing.  Then  it  is  said  : — 
"  The  Local  Government  and  Legislature  of 
each  province  shall  be  constructed  in  such 
manner  as  the  existing  legislature  of  each 
such  province  shall  provide."  I  do  not 
understand  from  tbis  whether  it  is  com 
petent  or  not  for  us  in  this  Legislature, 
before  there  is  a  Federal  union,  to  make 
provision  for  the  Local  Government  and 
Legislature,  or  whether  we  are  to  await  the 
action  upon  the  subject  of  Federation  of  the 
Imperial  Government.  Our  action,  one 
should  suppose,  ought  to  be  taken  after  the 
Imperial  Government  has  pronounced.  Per- 
haps this  is  the  intention.  Mr.  Speaker, 
they  refuse  to  tell  us  anything  about  it.  It 
may  be  that,  as  soon  as  these  resolutions 
are  carried,  we  will  be  sent  about  our 
business  ;  that  the  Imperial  Legislature  will 
be  invited  to  pass  an  act,  and  that  they  will 
convene  us  again,  provision  being  made  for 
that  course,  and  so  in  point  of  fact,  havii,g 
once  aflBrmed  the  principle  of  Federation, 
we  will  have  to  accept  such  local  legisla- 
latures  as  they  choose  to  give  us.  (^Hear, 
hear.)  I  find  the  Finance  Minister,  in 
speaking  of  the  construction  of  the  local  le- 
gislatures, saying  :  "It  was  known,  at  ail 
events  iu  the  liower  Canada  section  ot  the 
province,  that  there  would  a  Legihhitivc 
Council  as  well  as  a  Legislative  Ausemblv," 
constituting  tliereby  a  very  expoiidivo  ma- 
chinery uf  guvernuient  fur  the  local  aduiinis 
tratiin.  1  do  not  uud.rbtand  that  this  is 
the  view  Upper  CunadiauB  take  ol  this  matter. 
XI'  we  are  really  to  have  a  Local  Legislaturo,we 


want  it  to  be  as  inexpensive  in  its  character 
as  possible — we  want  to  construct  it  as  much 
as  possible  with  a  view  to  economy,  in  order 
to  the  public  burdens  being  lessened  to  the 
lowest  practical  point.  (Hear.)  Giviag  this 
question  the  best  attention  in  my  power, 
desirous  if  possible  of  seeing  something  ac- 
corjpli.shei  by  which  the  sen  blance  of  a 
cause  for  taction  may  be'  done  away 
with,  I  would  have  been  willing  to  sup- 
port this  scheme  had  I  seen  that  the 
Government  in  forming  it  bad  an  eye  to 
the  true  interests  of  the  country,  and  not  an 
eye  to  the  creating  of  a  number  of  legisla- 
tures, and  the  carrying  on  of  works  most 
expensive  and  burdensome  in  their  character 
— works  which  will  be  of  but  little  value  as 
a  commercial  undertaking,  and  of  very  little 
value  for  military  purposes,  but  which,  no 
doubt,  are  absolutely  necessary  for  bringing 
us  into  contact  with  the  people  of  the  Lower 
Provinces.  It  seems  to  me  that  it  would  be 
much  better  had  this  Intercolouial  Railway 
been  built  without  forming  this  union  at  all. 
(Opposition  cheers.)  Had  we  gone  on 
building  the  railway  without  a  union,  it 
would  have  been  less  expensive  in  its  char- 
acter to  us ;  we  would  have  gained  m'^re  by 
it,  and  we  would  have  had  the  coutrol  of 
our  affairs,  without  being  swamped,  so  far  as 
Upper  Canada  is  concerned.  (Hear,  hear.) 
As  it  is.  we  shall  get  no  mort  benefit  from 
it,  commercially,  than  if  it  had  been  built 
without  a  union  ot  the  provinces. 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— We  should  have 
had  the  railway,  without  bringing  in  those 
who  may  limit  our  western  extension. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  do  not  know 
what  will  be  done  under  the  new  arrange- 
ment. But  under  the  old  airan'.rement  we 
were  to  have  paid  five  twelfths  ul  the  cost, 
and  the  charge  upon  us  now  will  be  at  least 
double  that  sum.  So  that  iu  whatever  way 
this  matter  is  looked  at,  it  will  be  seen  that 
there  has  been  no  design  for  the  purpose  of 
advantaging  Upper  Canada,  whose  people  are 
to  find  the  means  by  which  all  this  extrava- 
gance is  to  be  carried  uu.  iu  the  formation 
of  this  scheme,  it  has  been  truly  admitted 
that  compromises  have  been  made.  The  Lower 
l^rovinccs  have  laws  which  are  not  in  accord- 
ance with  our  own  iu  Upper  Canada,  and  it 
has  been  thought  very  desirable  that  they 
.should  be  brought  into  uni.son  and,  if  pos- 
sible, cousulidated.  Well,  provision  luu>  been 
made  for  thoconsolidatiou  of  the::e  laws;  but 
observe  how  religiously  the  laws  of  Lower 
Canada  arc  guarded  from  interfcrcnoe.     The 


463 


33rd  sub-section  gives  to  the  General  Gov- 
ernment the  power  of  **  rendering  uniform 
all  or  any  of  the  laws   relative   to   property 
and   civil   rights  in     Upp-^r    Canada,  Nova 
Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  Newfoundland,  and 
Prince  Edward  Island,  and  rendering  uniform 
the  procedure  of  all  or  any  of  the  courts  in 
these  provinces ;    but  any  statute  for  this 
purpose  shall  have  no  force  or  authority  in 
any  province   until  sanctioned  by  the  legis- 
lature thereof."     So  that  in  reality  no  such 
law  will  be  binding  until  it  has  the  sanction 
of  the   Local  Legislature    of  the    province 
particularly  affected   thereby.     Such  being 
the  guarded  terms  of  the  resolution,  why  is 
it  not  made  applicable   to  Lower  Canada  as 
well  as  to  the  other  provinces  ?  Nothing  could 
be  done  respecting  its  peculiar  laws  without 
the  consent  of  its  Local  Legislature,  and  it 
is  quite  possible   to  my  mind,  that  there  are 
some  laws  which  it  would  be  advantageous 
to  all  parts  of  the  Confederation  to  assimilate. 
But  they  emphatically  declare  in  tliese  reso 
lutions  that  there  shall  be   no  interference 
with  the  laws  of   Lower  Canada.     So  that 
while  it  is  proposed  to  assimilate  the  laws  of 
the  other  provinces,  there  is  a  large  section 
of  intervening  country  which  is  to  have,  for 
all  time  to  come,  laws  separate  and  distinct 
from  the  rest.     ^^Hear,  hear.)     There  is   a 
great  deal  of  difference  in  making  a  provision 
of  this  kind,  which  is  to  give  the  people  the 
option,  and  which  is  not  to  be  binding  for  all 
time  to  come  unless  sanctioned  by  them,  and 
declaring  that  a  law  shall  be  forced  upon  the 
people  whether  they  liked  it  or  not.    (Hear.) 
I  can  easily  understand  the  feeling  of  the 
French  people,  and  can  admire  it — that  they 
do  not  want  to   have  anything  forced   upon 
them  whether  they  will  or  not.    But  that  they 
will  not  allow  you  to  contemplate  even  the 
possibility  of  any  change   taking   place  for 
the  general  weal,  and  with  their  own  consent, 
in  their  laws— that  they  will  not  allow  any- 
thing to  be  introduced  into  this  measure  by 
which,  under  any   circumstances    whatever, 
we  can  meddle  with  the  laws  of  this  particu- 
lar section  of  the  country — I  do  not  under- 
stand. And  having  feelings  of  this  kind,  and 
manifestina:  them  so  strongly  as  they  do  in 
this    docuLi  ent,    it  appears   to  me  that  in 
going  into  this  union,  we  do   not  go  into  it 
with  the  proper  elements.     We    go   into  it 
with  elements  of  strife  and  dissension,  rather 
than  of  union  and  strength.     (Hear,  hear.) 
That  is  to  be  regretted ;  for  if  a  change  is  to 
be  made  affecting  the  destinies  of  the  people 
of  this  country;  it  is  lamentable  that  we  do 


not  find  patriotism  enough  among  the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  people  to  be  willing  to  give 
and  take,  so  that  we  may  have  such  a  union 
as  will  be  beneficial   to   the  whole,  and  not 
one  burdensome  to  the  whole,  because  one 
portion  of  the  country  says,  "  We  have  pecu- 
liar institutions  which  we  dare  not  entrust  to 
the  care  of  you,   gentlemen,   who   are   to  be 
united  with  us."     Having  given   this  whole 
matter  the  best   attention   I  could,  with  the 
most  earnest  desire  that  any  man  could  have 
to  come  to  a  just  conclusion,  i  have  not  been 
able  to  satisfy  myself  that  there  are  not  the 
elements  of  ruin  rather  than  of  safety  and 
strength  in  this  scheme ;  that  there  are  not 
the  elements  of  the  dismemberment  of  this 
country  from  the  Empire  to  which  we  belong, 
and  have  pride  in  belonging ;  that  there  is 
not  the  means  here  of  causing  us  to  drift  right 
into  the  vortex  of  annexation  to  the   United 
States,  whether  we  will  or  not.     So  far  as  I 
am  concerned,  I  should  sooner  aee   perish 
root   and    branch    everything    belonging  to 
me,  than  I  would  become  a  party  to  a  union 
with  that  power.     Feeling  no  hostility  to  the 
people  there — feeling  as  friendly  to  them  as  to 
any  other  people,  still  I  have  that  attachment 
to  British  institutions — I  have   within   me 
that   feeling   of  allegiance    to    the    British 
Crown,  which  would  not  allow  me  to  throw 
off  British    connection  under   any    circum- 
stances   whatever,    or    even    to    accept   the 
disruption   of  that  connection,    if    it  were 
offered  to  us  by    Great  Britain.     I  feel  it 
would  be  a  curse  to  this  countrv,  if  we  were 
forced  into  that  union — forced  to  adopt  the 
licentiousness    of    conduct   which    we    find 
there,  and  habits   and   manners  totally  dis- 
tasteful to   us.      To   be   brought  into  that 
union  would  seem  to  me  the  greatest  injury 
which  by  possibility  could  happen  to  us.     In 
adopting  the   scheme   before  us,  I  feel  we 
would  be  sowing  the  seeds  of  discord  and 
strife,  which  would  destroy  our  union,  instead 
of  its  being   cemented  by  this  measure.     I 
am  therefore  opposed  to  the  scheme,  because 
I  believe   that  politically,  commercially,  and 
defensively,  as   a  matter  of  economy  or  of 
sectional  benefit,  it  will  not  be  one  tittle  of 
service  to  this  country,  but  on  the   contrary 
will  inflict  on  it  a  vast  and  lasting  injury. 
(Cheers.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN  said  he  desired  to  take 
part  in  the  debate,  but  did  not  wish  to  com- 
mence at  this  late  hour,  and  if  no  other 
honorable  gentleman  was  disposed  to  speak, 
he  would  move  that  the  debate  be  ad- 
journed. 


464 


Mr.  McGR^ERIN— As  I  know  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Brome  (Mr.  Dunkin)  is 
unwell,  I  am  willing  the  relieve  him  by  taking 
the  floor.  At  the  same  time,  I  rise  with 
much  diffidence  to  make  the  few  remarks  I 
intend  to  offer  on  this  occasion,  after  the  able 
and  eloquent  speech  to  which  we  have  just 
listened.  But,  although  I  may  not  be  able, 
perhaps,  to  place  before  this  House  any  views 
on  this  subject  which  have  not  already  been 
ably  placed  before  the  House  and  the  country 
by  honorable  gentlemen  who  have  preceded 
me,  still  I  feel  I  would  be  wanting  in  my 
duty  to  my  constituents  were  I  not  to  explain 
the  reasons  which  induce  me  to  take  the  course 
which  I  propose  to  take  with  reference  to  this 
question.  The  subject  is  certainly  a  very 
important  one,  and,  from  the  momentous 
character  of  the  interests  involved  in  this 
proposed  change  of  our  Constitution,  deserves 
the  earnest  attention  of  every  true  Canadian. 
(Hear,  hear.)  In  the  first  place,  I  feel  some 
explanation  should  be  given  of  the  reasons 
which  have  induced  myself,  in  common  with 
a  large  number  of  the  liberal  members  of 
Upper  Canada,  to  take  the  course  we  have 
seen  fit  to  take  with  reference  to  the  present 
Government,  and  the  policy  they  have  laid 
before  the  country.  In  Upper  Canada — I 
believe  in  almost  every  constituency — there 
has  long  been  an  agitation  having  reference 
to  the  sectional  difficulties  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  This  agitation,  instead  of 
diminishing,  has  continued  to  gather  strength. 
Ever  since  the  union  of  18-41,  Western  Can- 
ada has  felt — and  I  think  justly  felt — that  it 
did  not  receive  that  justice  to  which  its  wealth 
and  population  entitled  it.  On  the  other 
hand,  the  French  population  of  Lower  Canada 
believed,  or  professed  to  believe,  that  an  in- 
creased representation  of  Upper  Canada  in 
the  Legislature  would  tend  to  destroy  their 
language,  their  laws,  and  their  religion.  The 
difficult  position  into  which  we  were  brought 
by  this  antagonism  was  such,  that  when  the 
proposition  came  from  the  Government  that 
the  Honorable  the  l^rcsident  of  the  Council 
(Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  should  unite  with  them 
to  see  if  .some  means  could  not  be  devised  by 
whicli  these  unfortunate  sectional  difficulties 
might .  be  arranged,  I  felt  it  my  duty — how- 
ever unpleasant,  however  strange  it  may  have 
seemed  that  we  should  alienate  ourselves  from 
the  liberal  section  of  Lower  Canada — yet, 
satisfied  that  some  change  was  necessary  in 
the  manageiiient  of  the  public  affairs  of  this 
country,  1  I'elt  it  my  duty,  as  an  Upper  Can- 
adian— I  may  say  ^s  a  Canadian — to  do,  as 


far  as  I  possibly  could,  what  might  tend  to 
remove  from  our  country  the  unfortunate 
difficulties  under  which  we  have  labored. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  believe  that  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  at  least — I  may  say  of  Canada 
generally — have  become  tired  of  the  strife  in 
which  we  have  been  involved  for  mjjny  years, 
and  which  has  put  a  stop  to  that  practical 
and  useful  legislation  which  the  country  re- 

?uired  for  the  development  of  its  resources, 
believe  the  people  of  this  country,  in  conse- 
quence of  the  position  in  which  we  found  our- 
selves, had  become  earnestly  desirous  of  a 
change ;  but  the  change  they  looked  to  was 
not  in  the  direction  of  a  union  with  the  United 
States.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  change  they 
looked  for  was  in  the  direction  of  a  union 
with  the  other  British  provinces ;  one  which 
should  embrace — I  hope  at  no  distant  day — 
the  British  colonies  on  the  far  Pacific  coast, 
as  well  as  those  to  the  east  of  us,  bordering 
on  the  Atlantic.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  believe 
that  this  scheme  of  union  now  proposed — 
though  I  feel  that  it  has  many  imperfections 
— is  still  a  step  in  the  right  direction.  It  is 
perfectly  impossible  that  the  people  of  this 
country  should  be  satisfied  to  remain  in  the 
agitated  state,  politically,  in  which  they  have 
hitherto  been,  and  which  might  ultimately 
land  them  in  difficiiltics,  for  which  no  other 
solution  could  be  found  than  that  to  which 
our  neighbors  on  the  other  side  of  the  line 
have  unfortunately  been  compelled  to  resort. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  truly  said,  so 
long  ago  as  1858,  that  the  country  was  then 
almost  verging  on  revolution,  and  that  a 
change  was  necessary.  The  necessity  for  such 
a  change,,  instead  of  diminishing  since,  haa 
increased.  (Hear,  hear.)  As  far  as  I  have 
been  able  to  ascertain  the  feelings  of  the  mem- 
bers of  this  House,  I  have  not  as  yet  under- 
stood one  honorable  gentleman  to  state  that 
he  was  opposed  to  a  union  with  the  other 
provinces.  Even  the  honorable  gentleman 
who  has  preceded  me  has  stated  that  he  advo- 
cates such  a  union,  and  believes  it  would  be 
beneficial  to  this  country;  only  he  did  not  like 
the  manner  and  the  details  of  the  present 
scheme.  But,  while  he  and  other  honorable 
gentlemen  have  condemned  that  scheme  of 
union  which  is  now  submitted  t<i  the  House, 
while  professing  to  be  in  favor  of  union  in  the 
abstract,  I  have  as  yet  failed  to  find  one  of 
them  offi^ring  anything  as  an  improvement 
upon  it.     (Hoar,  hear.) 

Hon.   Mil.    HOI/rON— We  have  a  right 
to  amend  this  sobcmc. 


46^ 


Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  CARTIER— You  had 
better  print  your  amendments. 

Mk.  McGIVERIN— The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  North  Ontario  (Mr.  M.  C.  Cam- 
eron) has  stated,  that  while  he  is  an  ad- 
vocate of  union,  he  believed  that  a  Legislative 
would  be  preferable  to  a  Federal  union.  It  is 
easy  for  honorable  members  to  make  that  as- 
sertion. There  are  few,  at  least,  of  the 
English-speaking  of  this  country  who  would 
not  also  be  favorable  to  the  principle  of  a 
legislative  union.  But  can  we  get  it  ?  We 
have  tried  year  after  year  to  obtain  represent- 
ation by  population,  with  a  view  to  bettering 
our  condition  in  the  western  section  of  the 
province,  by  getting  a  fair  and  equal  distribu- 
tion of  the  public  moneys  of  the  country,  ac- 
cording to  our  wealth  and  population,  and  the 
measure  in  which  we  contribute  to  the  public 
revenue.  Few,  I  think,  will  deny  that  the 
western  section — for  whatever  reason,  whether 
because  of  its  being  more  favorably  situated, 
and  having  a  better  climate  and  more  fertile 
soil,  or  from  whatever  other  cause — the  fact  is 
indisputable  that  the  western  section  of  this 
province  produces  more  and  consumes  more 
than  the  eastern  section.  And  this  formed 
the  ground  of  complaint,  the  reason  of  the 
agitation,  that  notwithstanding  this  fact,  we 
of  Upper  Canada  were  not  placed  on  an  equal 
footing  with  the  Lower  Canadians  in  the  le- 
gislature of  the  country,  and  in  the  adminis- 
tration of  its  affairs.  Hence  it  is  that  popu- 
lar opinion  in  Upper  Canada  has  declared  so 
emphatically  that  a  change  is  necessary. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member  for 
North  Ontario  favors  a  kind  of  union  which, 
though  desirable  in  many  respects,  most 
people  believe  to  be  impracticable.  Are  the 
French  population,  who  are  entitled  to  claim 
just  and  equal  rights,  willing  to  concede  it  ? 
I  believe  not.  Even  the  liberal  section  of 
Lower  Canada  refused  to  concede  to  us  a  fair 
legislative  union.  The  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga — a  gentleman  for  whom  I  en- 
tertain the  highest  respect — I  believe  a  more 
liberal  or  high-minded  man  does  not  sit  in  this 
House — even  he,  whilst  we  were  acting  with 
him  politically,  when  appealed  to  time  after 
time  to  join  with  the  Liberal  section  of  Upper 
Canada  in  some  policy  that  would  remove 
these  unfortunate  difficulties,  constantly  re- 
fused to  do  so,  and  told  us  it  was  impossible  for 
him  and  his  friends  to  meet  us  on  that  ground. 
Therefore,  when  at  the  close  of  last  session,  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada  were  met,  as  they 
were  m^t,  by  the  other  political  party  of 
Lower  Canada,  telling  us — "  Here,  we  are 
60 


willing  to  yield  you  what  you  desire,  only  in- 
stead of  conceding  representation  by  popular 
tion  pure  and  simple,  we  believe  a  Confedera- 
tion of  the  whole  British  American  Provinces, 
with  that  principle  recognised  in  tlie  General 
Government,  would  be  preferable ;  or,  failing 
that,  we  are  willing  to  have  a  Federation  of 
the  two  provinces  of  Canada," — when  that 
was  offered  us,  would  we  have  been  justified 
in  rejecting  it,  simply  because  in  accepting  it 
we  were  compelled  for  the  time  to  allow  party 
feelings  to  remain  in  abeyance,  or  because  we 
had  to  work  in  harmony  for  a  time  with  the 
men  to  whom  we  had  been  opposed  political- 
ly, whom  perhaps  in  time  past  we  had  strong- 
ly denounced  ?  Should  we,  when  offered  that 
for  which  we,  :iS  a  party  and  as  a  people,  had 
worked  and  agitated  year  after  year,  have  re- 
fused it,  simply  because  it  was  not  offered  by 
those  with  whom  we  had  hitherto  acted  poli- 
tically ?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  for  one  felt — what- 
ever opinions  any  might  entertain  of  my  con- 
duct— I  felt  that,  as  an  Upper  Canadian  and 
in  justice  to  my  country,  1  was  bound  to  set 
aside  party  feeling  and  take  that  course  which 
was  for  the  best  interests  of  our  common 
country.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  North  Ontario  has  stated  with  refer- 
ence to  this  Confederation — and  similar  lan- 
guage was  held  by  the  honorable  member  for 
Hoclielaga — that  commercially,  politically  and 
defensively  the  union  of  these  provinces,  con- 
stituted in  the  way  proposed,  would  be  a  fail- 
It  was  also  stated  by   the   honorable 


ure. 


member  for  North  Ontario,  that  instead  of 
our  preparing  ourselves  for  the  contingency  of 
difficulties  arising  with  our  neighbors,  we 
should  remain  quiet;  we  should,  in  other 
words,  lie  down  and  allow  them  to  ride  over 
us  and  trample  us  in  the  dust.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Mr.  Speaker,  that  was  not  the 
sentiment,  those  were  not  the  feelings  which 
actuated  the  noble  veterans  of  1812 — (hear, 
hear) — who,  though  few  in  number,  with  a 
country  sparsely  settled  and  an  immense  ex- 
tent of  frontier,  bravely  did  all  that  lay  in 
their  power  to  resist  the  foe ;  and  they  not 
only  resisted  but  repelled  him.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Though  we  are  still  comparatively  few  in 
number,  we  have  nevertheless  increased  since 
that  period  in  wealth  and  in  population  in 
an  equal  ratio  with  the  United  States.  _  And 
though  this  war  has  developed  great  military 
resources  on  their  part,  I  think  I  shall  be  able 
to  show  that  with  the  resources  we  have — 
with  the  force  we  can  bring  into  the  field  of 
it  lettst  six  hundred  thousand  armed  men  if 
needed  —  (hear,  hear)  —  and  with  the  aid 


466 


Great  Britain  will  always  extend  to  us,  if  we 
show  that  we  on  our  part  arc  prepared  to  do 
our  duty — I  believe  that  we  are  in  (juile  as 
good  a  position  to  hold  our  own  as  those  who 
successl'ully  resisted  the  invader  in  the  war 
of"  1812.  (Hear,  hear.)  On  this  point  we 
can  take  an  encouraging  lesson  from  history. 
When  the  American  colonies  which  now  form 
the  United  States  rebelled  against  Great  Brit- 
ain, their  population  was  not  over  one  or  two 
hundred  thousand  in  excess  of  the  population 
of  the  five  colonies  that  are  to  form  our  pro- 
posed Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  At 
that  time  they  had  certainly  lewer  resources 
}Q  every  respect  than  the  people  of  this  coun- 
try now  possess,  and  yet  they  resisted,  and 
successfully  resisted,  one  of  the  greatest 
powers  in  the  world,  and  wrested  from  it 
their  independence.  Here,  in  the  event  of 
an  attack,  we  are  placed  in  a  precisely  similar 
position.  One  man  in  this  country  is  equal 
to  three  invaders.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  has  been 
demonstrated  in  the  struggle  now  pending 
between  the  North  and  the  South,  that  on 
account  of  the  difficulties  the  country  attacked 
presents. to  the  enemy,  and  the  advantages  it 
gives  to  those  defending  it,  one  man  is  equal 
to  three  in  resisting  an  invading  army.  The 
South — although  they  have  been  blockaded 
on  the  sea-cost — although  they  have  had  an 
immense  extent  of  frontier  to  defend — al- 
though they  have  had  the  internal  weakness 
of  four  millions  of  slaves  to  contend  with — 
and  although  the  white  population  is  little 
more  than  that  now  possessed  by  the  provin- 
ces which  are  to  form  this  Confederation  ; 
have  nevertheless  resisted  ibr  four  years — I 
may  say  successfully — all  the  power  and  in- 
fluence and  available  resources  which  the 
United  States  have  been  able  to  bring  against 
them.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  sincerely  trust  and 
pray,  and  it  should  be  the  desire  of  every  true 
Canadian,  that  we  may  continue  in  peace  ;  but 
to  say  that  it  is  impossible  for  us  to  contend 
against  a  force  that  may  be  brought  against 
UB,  is  to  say  that  from  which  I  for  one  must 
distent.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  sir,  I  believe 
that  in  a  coniniercial,  agricultural,  and  defen- 
sive point  of  view,  the  union  would  be  desir- 
able. Placed  as  we  arc  now,  with  the  abro- 
gation of  the  Reciprocity  treaty  threatened, 
does  it  not  beconjc  our  duty,  I  ask,  to  make 
some  effort  to  change  and  improve  our  euudi- 
dition  ?  As  1  stated,  sir,  the  subject  has 
been  so  ably  placed  before  this  llousi;  by  hon- 
orable gentlemen  who  have  preceded  me,  and 
who  are  so  much  more  capable  of  dealing  with 
it  than  I  am,  that  I  will  not  attempt  to  re- 


peat the  arguments  in  favor  of  this  scheme, 
commercially,  financially,  and  politically, 
which  have  already  been  adduced.  But  there 
are  one  or  two  points  as  to  the  rcsoui'ces  of 
the  whole  of  British  North  America,  to  which 
I  would  for  a  moment  invite  the  attention  of 
the  House.  The  union  is  desirabl«3  with  a 
view  to  the  development  of  our  mineral  re- 
sources. In  British  Columbia  and  Vancou- 
ver's Island  the  gold  fields  equal,  if  they  do 
not  exceed  in  value,  those  of  any  other 
part  of  the  world.  Iron  we  have  in  that 
vast  extent  of  country  lying  between  the 
Rocky  Mountains  and  Lake  Superior,  a 
country  equal  if  not  superior,  lor  the  purposes 
of  settlement  and  cultivation  to  any  we 
have  in  Canada,  and  whose  area  is  esti- 
mated at  from  eighty  to  one  hundred  million 
acres.  Then,  again,  we  have  magnificent  iron 
and  copper  mines  in  Canada,  while  the  Lower 
Provinces  possess  vast  mineral  resources,  ex- 
tensive coal  fields,  and  valuable  fisheries.  We 
have  all  the  natural  wealth  to  make  us  a  great 
people  if  we  pursue  a  course  to  develope  it. 
(Hear,  hear.)  To  illustrate  my  argument,  I 
will  mention  some  of  the  figures  showing  the 
resources  of  the  different  countries  adjacent 
to  and  forming  part  of  that  great  district,  with 
an  identity  of  interest.  (^Hear,  hear.)  In 
Nevada,  in  1860,  the  population  was  6,857, 
and  in  1863,  60,000.  About  eleven  millions 
of  dollars  have  been  invested  in  the  opening 
up  of  roads  and  in  other  improvemont.s,  aud 
the  resources  of  the  country  in  1863  amounted 
to  SI 5,000,000.  Victoria,  in  Australia,  in 
1861,  had  a  population  of  540,322,  and  they 
bave  constructed  350  miles  of  railway.  The 
revenue  was  $15,000,000,  and  they  have  their 
magnificent  cities  and  splendid  homesteads, 
with  every  comlbrt  and  luxury.  In  Utah, 
where  perhaps  there  are  many  difficulties  to 
retard  the  growth  of  the  country,  we  find 
that  in  1860  the  population  was  -11,000 — an 
increase  in  ten  years  of  25-4  per  cent.  The 
value  of  property  in  1850  was  6086.000,  and 
ten  years  allerwards,  in  1860,  it  was  five  and 
a  half  millions — an  increase  in  tliis  period  of 
468  per  cent.  Iron  and  copper  miues  have 
been  more  developed  in  that  territory  than 
gold,  although  they  possess  gold  as  well.  In 
1864  the  population  was  estimated  at  75,000. 
Colorado  has  a  pupulatiou  of  60,000,  and  the 
production  of  gold  in  1864  was  fifteen 
millions  of  dollars.  Agriculture  also  is 
iKJiig  rapidly  developed.  1  wi-shed  to  men- 
tion tliese  facts  to  hhow  what  we  may  look 
forward  to  if  we  carry  out  this  union 
hoQCBtly,  aud   fairly,  as   1   believe  the  Gov 


4^7 


ernmcut  intend  to  carry  it  out ;  not  sim- 
ply a  union  with  the  Maritime  Provinces,  but 
a  union  of  all  the  British  colonics  in  America 
from  the  Atlantic  to  the  Pacific  coast.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  I  felt  that  honorable  gentlemen 
who  have  now  the  control  of  the  public  af- 
fairs of  this  country  did  not  intend  honestly 
and  faithfully  to  carry  out  the  union  in  this 
sense,  and  to  take  measures  for  the  opening- 
up  of  the  great  North- West  territory,  for  the 
enlargement  of  our  canals,  and  for  the  general 
improvement  of  our  internal  water  communi- 
cations, I  for  one  would  not  hesitate  to  give 
my  voice,  and  whatever  influence  I  possess,  to 
oppose  them.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  wish  to  be 
understood  that  I  mention  these  gold-bearing 
countries,  and  countries  possessing  mineral 
wealth,  to  illustrate  that  we  have  all  that 
wealth  in  our  own  possession  if  we  only  de- 
velop it.  The  gold  produced  from  Australia, 
British  Columbia  and  California  during  the 
last  six  years  has  been  estimated  at  nearly 
two  thousand  millions  of  dollars.  The  polit- 
ical divisions  of  British  North  America  are  as 
follows :  Upper  Canada,  Lower  Canada,  Nova 
Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  Prince  Edward  Is- 
land, Newfoundland,  Vancouver's  Island,  Bri- 
tish Columbia,  Red  Piiver  Settlement,  and  the 
Hudson  Bay  Territory,  The  combined  ter- 
ritory is  equal  to  a  square  of  1,770  miles,  or 
more  than  three  millions  of  square  miles. 
This  vast  area  is  peopled  by  about  four  mil- 
lions of  inhabitants,  of  whom  nearly  three 
millions  are  contained  in  the  Canadas.  That, 
Mr.  Speaker,  is  what  I  understand  to  be  the 
contemplated  union ;  that  is  the  union  which 
I  understand  the  Government  are  pledged  to 
this  House  and  to  the  country  to  carry  out, 
and  I  say  that  if  I  did  not  believe  it  was  their 
honest  intention  to  carry  that  union  into  ef- 
fect, I  would  not  have  the  slightest  hesitation 
in  giving  my  vote  against  them.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Now,  sir,  I  would  allude  to  British  Columbia 
and  its  resources.  British  Columbia  embraces 
an  area  of  213,500  square  miles.  Its  exports 
in  1862  amounted  to  $9,257,875,  chiefly  in 
gold  and  furs,  and  its  imports  were  valued  at 
$2,200,000.  Vancouver's  Island  embraces 
an  area  of  16,000  square  miles,  with  a  popula- 
tion of  11,463.  In  1862  its  imports  amount- 
ed to  $3,555,000.  The  Hudson  Bay  Terri- 
tory embraces  an  area  of  1,800,000  square 
miles,  with  a  population  of  200,000.  Now  we 
come  to  the  Lake  Superior  region,  which  has 
been  entirely  or  almost  entirely  neglected  by 
the  people  of  Canada,  whilst  our  neighbors  on 
the  American  side,  more  energetic  and  more 
enterprising  I  must  confess  than  we  have  been. 


have  built  up  an  immense  trade.  In  1863  the 
amount  of  capital  employed  to  work  the  mines 
on  the  American .  side  was  $6,000,000. 
The  amount  of  copper  produced  in  1863  was 
nine  thousand  tons,  and  of  iron  a  hundred 
and  eighty-five  thousand  tons.  The  total 
exports  were  $10,000,000,  and  the  imports 
$12,000,000.  But  whilst  this  vast  trade  ha.-? 
been  produced  on  the  American  side,  little  or 
no  attention  has  been  given  by  the  people  of 
Canada  to  the  mineral  section  on  our  side, 
and  I  ihention  these  figures  to  show  what 
wealth  we  possess  still  in  an  undeveloped 
state.  (Hear,  hear.)  Mr.  Speaker.  I  regret 
that  I  am  not  able  to  place  my  views  so  clear- 
ly before  the  House  as  other  honorable  gen- 
tlemen who  have  addressed  it.  I  regret  that 
on  this  occasion,  not  having  intended  to 
speak  to-night,  I  have  not  been  able  to  in- 
terest the  House  more  than  I  have  done. 
(Cries  of  "  Go  on.")  But  I  think  that 
what  should  occupy  the  attention  of  this 
House,  and  of  the  people  of  the  country,  is 
the  practical  consideration  of  the  question 
now  under  discussion.  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir, 
the  resources  of  Canada  it  is  unnecessary  for 
me  to  allude  to.  They  are  well  known  to 
every  member  of  this  House.  But  it  has 
been  said,  in  reference  to  those  of  the  Lower 
Provinces^  that  the  people  will  not  bring  into 
the  union  a  reasonable  proportion  of  wealth. 
Mr.  Speaker,  it  has  been  stated  that  they 
have  nothing  to  bring  us  but  fish  and  coal.  I 
believe  that  their  resources  will  compare  favor- 
ably with  those  of  this  province  or  of  tl  e 
United  States.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  revenue 
of  New  Brunswick  in  1850  was  $416,348 ; 
in  1860,  $833,324 ;  and  in  1862,  $692,230. 
Now,  sir,  I  thiuk  that  thest  figures  will  show 
that  New  Brunswick  was  increasing  in  an 
equal,  if  not  greater,  ratio  than  this  country. 
Being  isolated  from  this  province,  being  al- 
most entire  strangers,  and  having  little  or  no 
intercourse  with  each  other,  we  find  that 
nearly  all  the  trade  has  gone  to  a  foreign 
country.  The  trade  in  1862  was,  with  Ca- 
nada— imports,  $191,522  ;  exports,  $48,090. 
Nova  Scotia — imports,  $861,652;  exports, 
8341,027.  Prince  Eilward  Island — imports, 
$82,240;  exports,  $80,932.  Newfoundland- 
exports,  $11,855.  United  States  -imports, 
$2,960,703;  exports,  $889,416.  Under  the 
union,  Canada  might  expect  to  get  the  trade 
ot  all  these  provinces.  The  trade  with 
Canada  is  almost  entirely  in  flour,  shipped 
through  the  United  States  to  these  pro- 
vinces. jL'he  agricultural  products  of  New 
Brunswick  in   1851   and   1861  were  as  foU 


468 


lows:— Wheat,  185',  206,635;  1861,  279,- 
778.     Barley,  1851,  74,300  ;  1861,  94,679. 
Oats,    1851,    1,411,164;   1861,   2,656,883. 
Buckwheat.  1851,  6s9,004;  1861,  904,321. 
iMaize,  1851,  62,225;  1^61,  17,420.     Peas, 
1851,  42,663;   1861,  5,228.      Hay.   1851, 
225,083  tons ;  1861,  324,160  tons.     Turnips, 
1851,  539,803;  1861,  634,3t30.     Potatoes, 
1851,  2,792,394  ;  1861,  4,0 11,339.     Butter, 
1851,3,050,939  lbs.;   1801,4.591,477  lbs. 
Horses,  1851,  22,U44  ;  1861,  35,830.     Meat 
Cattle,  1851,157,218;  1861,92,025.  Sheep, 
1851,168,1)38;  1861,214,096.  Swine,  1851, 
47.932;  1861,  74,057.     Ihe  area  of  New 
Brunswick   is  27,710   square  mile.",  or   17,- 
600,000  acres,  of  which  14,000,0C0  acres  are 
fit  for  profitable  cultivation.     Prince  Edward 
Island   embraces  an   area  of   2,131    square 
miles,   or   1,365,400   acres.     Its   population 
has  been  increapin<r  steadily.     In  1798  it  was 
5,000;  in   1833,32,292;  in  1841,47,034; 
in  1851,  55,000 ;  in  1861,  80  552.     In  1860, 
its    imports    amounted    to    31, 150, 270  ;    in 
1861,  55l,(J49,675;  and  in  1862,  Sl,(»56,200. 
The  cxpoits  in   1860  amounted  to  81, 272,- 
220;   1861.  81,085,750;  1862,81,162,215. 
The  agricultural  products  in    1860  were — 
Wheat,  346,125  minot'-;  barley,  223,195 ;  oats, 
2,2l8,.')78;    buckwheat,    50,127;     potatoes, 
2,972,235;   turnips,   34^,784;  hay,  31,100 
tons;  horses,  18,765;  meat  cattle,  60,015; 
sheep,  107,242  ;  hogs,  71,5:J5.      The  area  of 
Newfoundland  is  10,2  0  square  miles,  or  25,- 
728,000  acres.     In  1857  the  total  number  of 
inhabitants  was  119,304.     In  1862  its  trade 
was  as  follows  :  With  Canada,  imports,  850,- 
448.  exports,  819,001;  Nova  Scotia,  imports, 
890,596,    exports,    837,019  ;    New   Bruns- 
wick,   imports,    82,351  ;     Prince    Edward 
Island,    imports,    $11,720,    exports,    8909; 
United  States,  imports,   $345,797,  exports, 
$47,729.       The     total     imports    in     1857 
amounted  to  £1,413,432;  in  1858,  £1,17',- 
862;    in      1859,     £1,324,136;     in    1860, 
£1,254,128;  in  1861,  £1,152,857;  in  1862, 
£1,007,082.      The    total   exports    were,    in 
1857,  £1,651,171;  in    1858,   £1,318.836; 
in  1859,  £1,357,113;  in  1860, £1,271,712  ; 
in  1861,  £1,092,551;  and  in  1862,  £1,171,- 
723.     The   principal  export  is  lish.     Nova 
Scotia  is  350  miles  in   length   by  100  miles 
in    breadth.     Its    population    in    1838    was 
199,028;  in  1851,  276,117;  and  in  1S61, 
330,857.     The  revenue  in   1852  was  ?48:>,- 
522  ;      expft:.diture,      8483,895  ;     imports, 
$5,970,877,  exports,  84,853,903."     In  1862, 
the  revenue    was  81,127,298  ;    expenditure, 
81,009,701;  impurto,    86,198,553;  exports. 


85,646.961.       The     agricultural     products 
of   1851    and     1861     were    as    follows  :  — 
Wheat,    1851,    297,159;    1861,    312,081. 
Barley,  1851, 196,007;  1861,269,578.  Oats, 
1851,  1,384,437;    1861,   1,978,137.    Buck- 
wheat, 1851,170,301 ;  1861, 195,340.  ilaize, 
1851,  37,475;    1861,  15,592.    Peas.  1851, 
21,638;  1861,21,335.  Rye,  1851,  61,438; 
1861,    59,706.   Hay,  1851,   287,837   tons; 
1861,   334,287.     Turnips,    1851,   167,125; 
1861,554,318.    Potatoes,  1851,  1,986,789; 
1861,   3,824,864.    Butter,  1851,  3,613,890 
lbs.;      1861,     4,532,711.      Cheese,     1851, 
652,069  lbs. ;  1861,901,296.  Horses,  1851, 
8,789;  1861,  41,927.  Meat  cattle,  1851, 
243,713;     1861,    151,793.     Sheep,    1851," 
282,180;     1861,    332,653.     Swine,    1851, 
51,533;  1861,  53,217.  Coal,  1851,  83,421 
tons;  1861,   326,429.      I  mereh   allude  to 
these  figures  to  show  hon.   gentleuien   that 
these  colonies  have  other  and  very  valuable 
resources   besides    those   which    have    been 
stated    by    some     members,     namely,    fish 
and    coal.      (Hear,    hear.)      It    was    stated 
by     the     honorable     member     for     North 
Ontario    (xMr.    M.   C.    Cameron) — and    I 
think   ingeniously   stated — that   this    union 
would  produce  an  enormous  increase  of  tax- 
ation   on   the    people   of  Canada  ;  that  the 
partnership    would    be   a   very  unprofitable 
one  to  us.     Now  I  think  he  failed  to  make 
a  point  on  that.     It  has  been  shown  that  we 
enter  into  this  union  with  a  debt  of  twenty- 
five  dollars  a  head,  and  that  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, instead   of  bringing    a  load  upon  us 
by  coming  into  the  partnership,  occupy  a  de- 
cidedly iavorable  position  with  regard  to  this 
country.      (Hear,  hear.)     The  hon.  member 
for  North  Ontario  also  stated  that  the  union 
of  the  provinces  would  involve  this  country 
in  a  great   local  debt,   a  statement   which  I 
think  is  also  erroneous.     He  is  favorable  to 
a  union,  but  would  prefer  a  legislative   one. 
But  does    he    pretend  to   say  that    such  u 
union   would  tend  less  to  the  swamping  of 
Upper   Canada,  which  he   fears  under   the 
Confederation  'i      His     financial    argument, 
that  our   debt  and  our   taxation   would    in- 
crease, has  failed,  except  thus  lar,  that  the 
machinery  of   the  Goverumeut   may  be  too 
expensive.     If  the  present  Govcrumei:t  tail 
to  discharge  their  duty  and  adopt  an  unduly 
expensive   machinery,   it  is  by  that  means 
alone    that    an    increased    expenditure    eau 
arise.     It  does  not  depend  on  tiic  fact  of  the 
union  ;  it  rest.s  entirely  on  this,  whether  this 
union    is    carried    out    laiily    and  properly. 
(lloar,  hear.)  Tho  ucxt  poiut  is  the  construe- 


469 


tionof  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  and  to  that 
the  hon.  member  for  North  Outario  is  favor- 
alle,  except  that  he  would  rather  see  it  built 
without  the  union  than  with  it,  because  the 
union  will  add  so  much  to  the  expenses  of 
the  country.  In  reference  to  that,  the  increase 
of  the  expenditure  will   depend  entirely  on 
the  hon.  gentlemen  who  have  now  the  charge 
of  the  government  of  the  country.     If  they 
are  extravagant ;  if  they  have    a  governor 
with  a  retinue,  and  for  each  of  the  provin- 
ces an   expensive  staff,  and  all  the  appliances 
of  royalty,  then  I  believe  that  the  union  would 
add  greatly  to  the  expenses  of  the  country. 
But  I  do  not  understand  that  such  is  their 
opinion.     I  believe  their   desire  is — and  I 
am  satisfied  that  if  they  have  not  this  desire 
the  people  will  require  it  of  them — that  it 
shall  be  conducted  on  principles  of  economy, 
and  in  such  a  manner  that  increased  taxation 
will  not  necessarily  be  the   result.     (Hear, 
hear.)     Now,  sir,  in  reference  to  this  great 
country  which  I  have  briefly  adverted  to,  I 
wish  it  to  be  distinctly   understood  by  the 
members  of  the  Government  that  I  for  one 
support  them  on  this  understanding,  and  on 
this  understanding   only — that  the  union  of 
the   provinces  and  the  construction  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railway,  the  opening  up  of  the 
North-West   and   the  enlargement    of    our 
canals,    shall   be    considered    part    of    this 
scheme,  with  a  view  to  developiug  our  great 
natural  resources  and  placing  this  country  in 
a  prominent   position,  not  only  as  a  colony 
but  as  a  community,  that  will  command  the 
respect  of  nations.     (Hear,  hear.)    We  must 
have  these  promises  respecting  the  North- 
West  and  the  canals  fairly   carried  out,  and 
not  be  placed  in  such  a  position   that  after 
the    Intercolonial  Railway  shall  have  been 
constructed,  there  will  be  a  combination  of 
eastern  interests  to  prevent  the  accomplish- 
ment of  these  other  works  and  swamp  the 
great  North- West.     If  there  is  to  be  a  doubt 
upon    that   point,  I   for   one,   without    any 
hesitation,  will  state  that  I  will  not  support 
a  scheme  that  will  admit  of  it.   (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  most  decidedly  opposed  to  the  Inter- 
colonial   Railway   as   a   commercial    under- 
taking.    I  beli>.ve  it  never  can  be  made  a 
profitable  commercial  work.     But  this  I  do 
believe,  that  situated  as  we  are,  with  the 
probability  of  being  shut  out  from  the  mar- 
kets of  the  United  States  by  the  abrogation 
of  the  Reciprocity  treaty — of  being  restricted 
in  our  commercial  iutercourse  with  the  world 
by  the  repeal  of  the  bonding  system — of  being 
crippled  by  every  step  the  Americans  may 


take  with  the  view  of  forcing  us  into  closer 
political  relations  with  them,  it  is  our  duty 
for  purposes  of  self-defence,  and  with  a  view 
of  placing  ourselves  in  an   independent  posi- 
tion and    having    our    resources   developed, 
fairly,   properly   and  honestly   to    carry  out 
this  scheme  with  the  construction  of  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway  as  part  of  it.   As  a  commer- 
cial work,  I  have  looked   into  it  in   all  its 
bearings,  and  have  failed  to  see  the  advan- 
tages  it  will  confer.      The  farmers  of  the 
grain-producing  districts   of  Upper  Canada 
have  the  same  market  to  sell  their  surplus 
products  as  the  farmers  of  the  States,  that 
is,  the  English  market.     Now,  I  tiiink  it  is 
impossible    to    show  that     the    produce   of 
Upper    Canada    can    be   conveyed    by    this 
Intercolonial   Railway  to   the  seaboard,  and 
thence    to    Liverpool,   as  profitably    as    the 
Americans   can  carry  it  to  the  seaboard  at 
New  York  and  thence  to  the  English  mar- 
ket.    If  by  the  one  route   the  grain  cannot 
be  carried  as  cheaply  as  by  the  other,  it  is 
impossible  for  the  (>an:idian  farmer  or  mer- 
chant to  be  placed  in   as  good  a  position  as 
the  American.     But  if,  having   constructed 
the  Intercolonial  Railway,  our   Government 
says,  *'  We  will  compete  with  the  Americans  ; 
we  will  put  the  rates  of  transportation  so  low 
as  to  offer  our  farmers  as  cheap  a  route  by  it 
as  by  the  States,"  then   the  cost  of  this  will 
have  to  be   borne   by  the  people  in  another 
way,  for  the  road  failing  to  pay  even  expenses, 
the    excess    of    expenditure    will    become 
a  charge  upon  the  country  for  years.     View 
it   then    in    any   light,    and  the    proposed 
road  cannot   be  made   profitable.     But  for 
purposes  of  defence,  and  as  a  means  of  com- 
munication, if  we  desire  to  be  united  with 
the  Lower  Provinces  and  retain  our  connec- 
tion with  Great  Britain,  the  construction  of 
the  road  is   a  necessity.     (Hear,   hear.)     I 
desire,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  state  what  in  my 
opinion    will   be   some    of    the    commercial 
results  of  this  union.     If  the  North- West 
contains  land,  as  I  believe  it  does,  equal  to 
almost  any  on   this  continent,  it  should  be 
placed   in    precisely    the   same    position    as 
regards    Canada  that    the    Western    States 
occupy  in  relation  to  the  Eastern.     I  believe 
we    should    endeavor    to  develope  a   great 
grain     producing      district  j    for    whatever 
may  be  said,  there  is  not  any  appreciable 
quantity   of    grain-producing    land    in    the 
hands   of  the  Government   not   now  under 
cultivation     in     Canada,    for     the     benefit 
of    our    increasing    population.      It    is    a 
melancholy    fact    that    for    the   want    of 


470 


such  a  country,  our  youth  seek  homes  in 
a  foreign  land,  who  would  remain  under  the 
British  flag  if  homes  were  open  to  them 
there.  (Hear,  hear,)  If  we  had  that 
country  open  to  them,  to  say  nothing  of 
the  foreign  immigration  it  would  attract,  it 
would  afford  homes  for  a  large  population 
from  amongst  ourselves  now  absorbed  in  the 
Western  States.  Again,  wc  shall  have  the 
trade  of  that  country  carried  through  our 
midst,  and  profit  by  the  transportation  to  the 
seaboard  of  the  produce  of  a  land  which  I 
look  upon  as  one  of  the  greatest  grain- 
producing  countries  on  the  continent,  equal 
in  this  respect  to  any  of  the  fertile  states  of 
the  west,  (Hear,  hear.)  If  we  look  at  the 
marvellous  growth  cf  those  states,  we  may 
form  some  idea  of  what  our  North-West 
territory  may  become,  if  properly  de- 
veloped, la  1830  the  whole  of  that  vast 
country  was  a  wilderness.  Now  we  find 
its  expurtation  of  grain,  in  addition  to  the 
quantities  consumed,  amounting  to  l'JO,000,- 
000  annually.  The  population  within  a 
short  period  has  increased  from  ]  ,500,000 
to  upwar.ls  of  9,000,000.  We  find  it  now, 
in  fact,  an  empire  of  itself,  possessing  all  the 
resources  of  wealth  that  any  country  could 
desire.  What  then  may  we  not  expect  our 
great  North-West  to  become  ?  If  we  had  it 
opened  up,  Canada  would  be  the  carriers  of 
its  produ3e.  as  the  Middle  States  are  the 
carriers  or'  the  Western  States,  ,ind  the  manu- 
facturers of  its  goods  as  the  Eastern  States 
are  now  the  manufacturers  of  the  goods  con- 
sumed by  the  west.  We  would  occupy 
towards  it  precisely  the  same  position  as  the 
Eastern  States  occupy  towards  the  Western  ; 
the  produce  of  the  North-West  would  find  a 
profitable  market  amongst  us,  while  our 
manufactories  would  increase  and  prosper, 
and  we  would  be  placed  entirely  independent 
of  the  United  States  in  our  commercial  rela- 
tions. (Hear,  hear.)  As  we  are  now  si- 
tuated, the  United  States  afford  us  a  market, 
especially  for  our  coars  r  grains,  which 
will  not  bear  the  expense  of  h»ng  trans- 
portation. They  have  taken  of  our  pro- 
duce twenty  millions  annually  since  the 
Reciprocity  treaty  was  negotiated.  That 
trade  must  necessarily  seek  other  chaiinc's. 
If  we  can  open  up  the  North-West ;  if 
we  enlarge  and  improve  our  inland  water 
communication — il'  we  can  build  up  a  fioot 
of  vessels  to  ply  on  our  inland  waters  end 
owned  by  this  great  emnire  of  provinces, 
then,  instead  of  bf^ing  depondent  upon  the 
United  States,  wc  would  bo  in  a  position  of 


entire  independence  ;  we  would  then  have  in 
ourselves  the  substantial  elements  ot  pro- 
gress ;  and  we  would  have  the  advantage  of 
loading  our  vessels  at  any  of  our  own  ports, 
and  sending  them  direct  to  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, the  West  Indies,  and  Europe.  Then 
the  Lower  Provinces  would  have  a  profit- 
able trade  with  us  in  oil,  fish  and  other  pro- 
ducts, and  a  large  fleet  of  vessels  which 
would  be  employed  in  valuable  commerce 
and  increase  the  common  prosperity  of  the 
whole  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  union,  if 
based  on  correct  principles  and  carried  out 
in  honesty  of  purpose,  will  be  for  the  advan- 
tage of  all ;  and  if  our  statesmen  approach 
and  finally  consummate  the  work  as  en- 
lightened and  patriotic  statesmen  should  do, 
their  namas  will  be  handed  down  in  the  his- 
tory of  the  Confederation  with  honor.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If,  on  the  other  hand,  they  fail  to 
carry  it  out  in  this  spirit ;  if  by  the  union 
they  entail  an  enormously  increased  expen- 
diture, with  extravagance  and  wild  specula- 
tion, thea  they  will  do  much  to  injure  the 
country  and  check  its  prosperity.  There  is 
doubtless  room  for  extravagance  and  specu- 
lation in  connecti  m  with  thi.s  scheme.  The 
history  of  our  railways  shews  beyond  a 
doubt,  that  a  large  portion  of  the  immense 
sum  expended  was  spent  in  a  very  unsatis- 
factory manner — (hear,  hear)—  and  that 
they  might  have  been  constructed  without 
entailing  such  a  large  indebtedness  upon  the 
country  ;  and  if,  guided  by  the  experience  of 
the  past,  the  work  now  proposed  is  carried  out 
in  a  proper  manner,  they  will  deserve 
the  gratitude  of  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.) 
In  looking  over  the  life  of  Fkanklin,  I 
found  this  pa.ssage,  which  occurs  to  me  an 
illustrating  a  position  very  similar  to  that  in 
which  we  are  now  placed  : — 

No  sooner  bad  it  become  clear  to  Fr.\n"kli.n" 
that  the  French  meant  war,  than  his  mind  darted 
to  the  best  means  of  resisting  the  attack.  The 
French  power  iu  North  America  was  wielded  by 
a  single  hand,  and  all  tlicir  measures  were  part 
of  one  scheme.  The  power  of  England,  on  the 
contrary,  was  dissipated  among  many  govern- 
ments, always  independi'iit  of  one  anstbor,  often 
a  little  jealous,  and  never  too  cordial  or  neigh- 
borly. "  We  must  unite  or  be  overcome,''  said 
Fhaxklin,  in  May,  1754.  Just  before  leaving 
home  to  attend  Conjijress  at  Albany,  he  published 
an  article  to  this  jH'oot,  and  uppendoil  to  it  one  nf 
those  alloijorical  wood-cut^.  It  wai  a  iiieturo  of 
a  snake  cut  into  as  many  pieces  as  tliore  wei-o 
colonies  ;  each  piece  having  upon  it  the  tirst  letter 
of  tiie  name  of  a  colony,  and  under  the  whole, 
in  luiiro  lelt(>rs — "Join  or  die." 

Mr.  Speaker,  I  bolievo  that  our  position 


471 


is  similar  at  the  present  time.  I  believe 
that  it  is  really  the  desire,  the  object  and 
the  aim  of  our  neighbors  ultimately,  whether 
by  force  of  arms  or  by  the  course  they  have 
recently  adopted,  to  bring  us  into  the  Amer- 
ican union.  By  crippling  our  resources,  by 
destroying  our  trade  and  by  thrc^atening  us 
with  invasion,  they  hope  to  bring  aboutj  soon- 
er or  later,  a  feeling  of  dissatisfaction  among 
the  people  of  Canada  and  a  desire  for  union. 
There  is  no  question  that,  unless  we  take 
proper  steps,  the  people  of  Canada  will  be- 
come dissatisfied.  By  union  with  the  Lower 
Provinces,  it  is  evident  that  we  will  be  en- 
abled to  increase  our  trade  to  the  amount  of 
five  or  six  millions  of  dollars,  which  is  of 
itself  a  very  strong  inducement,  aside  from 
the  other  considerations  that  I  have  alluded 
to.  I  believe  there  are  many  members  of 
this  House  in  favor  of  the  scheme,  but 
who  look  upon  it  as  so  large  a  question  that  it 
ought,  they  say,  to  be  submitted  to  a  vote  of 
the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  has  been  said  by 
several  members,  and  by  the  honorable  gentle- 
man who  preceded  me — ''  Shall  we  take  away 
the  rights  of  the  people  ?  Shall  we  enter 
upon  a  scheme  of  this  importance  without 
allowing  them  a  voice  ?  Have  there  been  any 
petitions  in  favor  of  this  scheme?"  (Hear, 
hear.J  That  would  certainly  appear  an  argu- 
ment that  had  great  force ;  but  if  we  take 
into  consideration  the  effect  of  the  agitation 
of  any  question  in  this  House  upon  which  the 
people  feel  strongly,  we  have  a  right  to  ask 
why  has  not  a  single  petition  been  presented 
against  it  ?  We  have  the  effect  of  this  ques- 
tion well  illustrated  in  the  introduction,  bv 
the  honorable  member  for  West  Brant,  of  a 
railway  bill.  That  question  the  people  of 
Western  Canada  have  very  strong  feelings 
upon,  and  I  think  they  have  good  reasons  for 
it.  We  scarcely  find  that  measure  placed  on 
the  records  of  this  House  before  we  have 
petitions  from  all  sections  of  the  west,  de- 
nouncing the  bill  as  an  attack  upon  the  liber- 
ties of  the  people.  They  fear  the  power  that 
it  proposes  to  place  in  the  hands  of  the  Grand 
Trunk  Railway  Company.  Now,  if  the  people 
of  Canada  object  to  this  great  scheme — and  it 
has  been  placed  before  them  in  almost  every 
light — the  resolutions  have  been  printed  in 
almost  every  paper  in  Canada — months  have 
been  given  for  their  consideration,  and  the 
whole  subject  has  been  placed  before  them  in 
an  eloquent  manner  by  several  of  the  honor- 
able members  of  the  Government — why  have 
they  not  petitioned  against  it  ?  The  fact  that 
they  have  not  done  bo  shows  that  they  ahnost 


unanimously  acquiesce  in  what  is  being  done. 
Since  the  Government  pledged  themselves  to 
bring  down  a  scheme  for  Confederation,  the 
subject  has  been  brought  before  nearly  fifty 
constituencies  in  Canada,  either  by  elections 
or  by  its  being  submitted  to  the  consideration 
of  the  people  by  honorable  members  of  this 
House,  and  the  people  of  Upper  Canada,  at 
least,  have  in  no  instance  voted  disapproval  of 
it.     (Cries  of  "  No,  no.") 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— At  a  large  and 
popular  meeting  held  in  Toronto,  a  few  even- 
ings ago,  only  one  man  could  be  found  to 
vote  against  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  BliOWN — Since  the  present 
Government  was  formed,  and  its  policy  an- 
nounced, there  has  not  been  one  election  con- 
test in  which  more  or  less  importance  was  not 
attached  by  one  candidate  or  another  to  this 
question.  There  have  been  no  fewer  than 
fifty-one  constituencies,  or  portions  of  consti- 
tuencies, appealed  to  since  oui-  policy  was 
placed  before  the  country,  and  in  every  in- 
stance that  policy  has  been  sustained.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  cheers.) 

Mr.  McGIVERIN— I  feel  that  I  am  at 
perfect  liberty  to  support  this  measure.  Per- 
haps I  was  the  first  to  agitate  and  to  lay  the 
question  before  the  people  of  the  west  in  my 
own  county.  I  stated  to  the  people  that  I 
was  in  favor  of  representation  according  to 
population  as  a  principle  of  justice,  but  that  I 
believed  that  that  question  could  be  settled, 
and  with  it  all  our  difiaculties  could  be  ar- 
ranged by  means  of  the  larger  project  of  the 
union  of  all  the  provinces.  Many  honorable 
gentlemen  who  oppose  this  scheme  freely 
admit  the  importance  of  some  change,  but 
they  have  not  proposed  any  substitute  that 
would  improve  the  scheme.  I  am  satisfied 
that  if  the  question  were  brought  before  the 
people  of  Canada,  side  issues,  political  and 
personal  feeling  and  party  questions  would 
enter  more  largely  into  its  consideration  than 
Federation  itself,  and  that  therefore  a  correct 
verdict  might  not  be  obtained.  I  have  en- 
deavored  to  inform  myself  as  to  the  prece- 
dents for  submitting  such  a  question  to  the 
people,  and  I  have  failed  to  find  one  precedent 
in  its  favor,  while  I  have  found  several  in 
favor  of  the  method  of  dealing  with  it  as  pro- 
posed by  the  Government.  The  first  I  shall 
take  the  liberty  of  reading  is  from  Hansard, 
■volume  85,  as  follows  : — 

At  the  lime  Sir  R.  Peel  proposed  the  change 
iu  the  repeal  of  the  corn  laws  to  a  House  of  Com- 
mons which  had  been  elected  in  the  interests  of 
their  maintenance,  it  was  urged  that  he  t  hould  have 


472 


advised  a  dissolutioii  of  Parliament  before  sub- 
mitting this  proposition,  and  that  it  was  unpre- 
cedented a'id  dangerous  for  the  existing  House 
to  deal  with  the  question.  Sir  R.  Peel  took 
high  grounds  against  the  doctrine,  declaring  that 
whatever  may  have  been  the  circumstances  that 
may  have  taken  place  at  the  election,  he  never 
would  sanction  the  view  that  any  House  of  Com- 
mons is  incompetent  to  entertain  a  measure  which 
is  necessary  for  the  well-being  of  the  country. 
He  cited  in  proof  of  the  soundness  of  this  prin- 
ciple Mr.  Pitt's  observations  when  a  similar  doc- 
tine  was  proposed  at  the  time  of  the  union  of 
England  and  Ireland,  as  it  had  been  at  the  time 
of  the  union  with  Scotland.  This  view  had  been 
maiutiiinedin  Ireland  very  vehemently,  but  it  was 
not  held  by  Mr.  Fox,  and  only  slightly  hinted  at 
by  Sheridan,  in  reply  to  whom  Mr.  Pitt  de- 
fended the  constitutional  system  that  Parliament, 
without  any  previous  appeal  to  the  people,  hnd  a 
right  to  alter  the  succession  to  the  throne,  to  dis- 
franchise its  constituents  or  associate  others  with 
them.  "  There  could  not,"  observed  Sir  R.  Peel, 
"  be  a  more  dangerous  example,  a  more  purely 
democratic  precedent,  if  I  may  so  say,  than  that 
this  Parliament  should  be  dissolved  on  the  ground 
of  its  incompetency  to  decide  on  any  question  of 
this  nature." 

I  think,  sir,  that  that  is  a  very  stroag  argu- 
ment ;  and  here  is  another,  from  volume  35, 
page   857,  of  the  Parliamentary  History  of 
Englwid : — 

The  Parliament  of  Great  Britain  that  had 
agreed  to  the  legislative  union  with  Ireland,  in- 
corporated with  itself  the  members  for  Ireland, 
and  then  commenced  the  first  session  of  the  Par- 
liam  nt  of  the  United  Kingdom  by  electing  a  new 
Speaker  and  observing  all  the  formalities  usual 
upon  the  commencement  of  a  new  parliament 
without  any  previous  dissolution." 

Next,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  will  take  a  quotation 
from  an  eminent  authority  of  one  of  the  most 
democratic  countries  in  the  world — a  country 
whose  people  boast  that  nothing  can  be  done 
without  their  sanction.  I  refer  to  the  United 
States  of  America,  and  the  work  I  now  cite 
is  Sedgwick  on  Constitutional  Law.  Speak- 
ing of  "  cases  where  the  Legislature  has  sought 
to  divest  itself  of  its  real  powers,"  he  says: — 

EfiForts  have  been  made  in  several  cases,  by 
state  leglslalurei,  to  divest  themselves  of  the  re- 
sponsibility of  their  functions  by  submitting 
statutes  to  the  people ;  but  these  proceedings 
have  been  held,  and  very  righlly,  to  lie  entirely 
uuconstitutiunai  and  invalid.  The  government  i)f 
the  stall'  is  domoorutic,  but  it  is  u  I'epresentative 
democracy  in  the  legislature. 

1  shall  rnuke  another  extract  from  the  Consti- 
tutional Histnrif  of  England,  page  316,  ou 
the  same  subject : — 

Upon  this  provalont  disafifection,  and  tlie  gen- 


eral dangers  of  the  established  government,  was 
fouiiJe  1  that  measure  so  frequently  arraigned  in 
la.er  LiiU'-".  the  substitution  of  septennial  for  tri- 
ennial pari.  ..iionls.  The  ministry  deemed  it  tO'i 
perilous  for  their  mixster,  certainly  for  themselves, 
to  encounter  a  general  election  in  1717  ;  but  the 
arguments  adduced  for  the  alteration,  as  it  was 
meant  to  be  permanent,  were  drawn  from  its  jier- 
manent  expediency.  Nothing  can  be  more  ex- 
travagant than  what  is  sometimes  confidently  pre- 
tended by  the  ignorant,  that  the  legislature  ex- 
ceeded its  rights  bv  this  enactment ;  or,  if  that 
cannot  be  legally  advanced,  that  it  at  least  vio- 
lated the  trust  of  the  people,  and  broke  in  upon 
the  ancient  Constitution. 

Sir,  I  think  that  these  are  pretty  strong  pre- 
cedents ou  the  subject,  especially  as  I  find  not 
one  precedent  for  submitting  the  question  to 
the  people.  I  do  tliiuk  that  we  owe  and 
ought  to  pay  to  the  wishes  of  the  people  every 
deference ;  and  if  I  believed  that  any  large 
portion  of  the  people  of  Western  Can:ida,  or 
of  the  constituency  which  I  represent,  were  in 
favor  of  having  it  submitted  to  the  electore,  I 
would  feel  it  my  duty  to  bow  to  their  will 
and  vote  for  its  submission.  But  I  am  safe 
in  saying  that  I  have  not  conversed  with  one 
prominent  individual  in  my  county  who  was 
not  strongly  in  favor  of  the  proposed  union. 
I  will  admit  tliat  the  political  ties  that  bind 
men  together  are  strong  ties,  and  approach  to 
a  great  extent  to  the  feeling  of  friends^hip, 
and  perhaps  there  is  no  one  values  them  more 
than  I  do ;  but  when  1  aided,  at  the  meeting  of 
the  Liberal  party,  a  year  ago,  in  bringing  about 
the  present  movement,  I  did  so  believing  that  it 
was  for  the  best  interests  of  the  country,  and 
if  properly  carried  out  many  of  us  will  live 
to  see  this  country  become  one  of  the  great- 
est, happiest  and  freeest  ou  earth,  because  it 
possesses  all  the  resources  and  all  the  material 
for  wealth  and  prosperity  that  is  found  in  any 
country.  Nature  h;L*  bountifully  given  us  all 
she  could  well  give  towards  making  us  a  great 
and  prosperous  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  Hon- 
orable gentlemen  must  admit  that  it  is  time 
a  change  should  be  brought  about  by  some 
means,  for  it  was  a  most  melancholy  sight  to 
see  the  two  sides  o\'  this  Huu.><e  so  evenly  bal- 
anced against  each  other  as  they  were  during 
the  two  last  sessions,  the  members  spending 
night  after  night  in  useless  di.^cussiou  on  jkt- 
sonal  grounds,  in.stcad  of  promoting  useful 
legislation.  Mr.  Sl'K.VKEll,  1  fear  if  this 
course  were  continued  for  any  length  of  time 
it  would  lead  to  serious  results.  There  are 
certain  bounds  and  limits,  both  to  individuals, 
communities  and  nations,  beyond  which  they 
cannot  go  with  safety.     T  believe  we  had  jj- 


473 


most  arrived  at  that  point  in   this  country. 
Who  would  have  thought,  a  month  before  the 
attack   on   Fort  Sumter,  that  a  devastating 
civil  war  would  have  resulted  from  the  angry 
discussions  which  took  place  in  the  Congress 
of   the   United    States?      Up   to    that   time 
everyone  professed  to  believe  that  the  hard 
words  bandied  to  and  fro  between  the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  North  and  South  were  mere 
characteristics  of  the  people.  And  who  knows 
but  that  the  fearful  scourge  which  has  over- 
taken them  might  not  have  befallen  us,  had 
our  sectional  discussions  continued  with  in- 
creasing  bitterness   and   acrimony  ?       These 
dreadful  consequences  are  liappily  averted  by 
the  scheme  now  before  us  for  reconciling  our 
differences.    (Hear,  hear.)    I  am  one  of  those 
alluded  to  by  the  honorable  member  for  Ho- 
chelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  as  being  an  Up- 
per Canada  liberal  who  joined  in   supporting 
the   Macdonald-Sicotte   Government,  and 
who,  in  so  doing,  gave  up  the  demand  for 
representation  by  population,  which  had  for 
years  agitated  the  western  section  of  the  pro- 
vince.    For  my  part  the  feeling  I  had  at  the 
time    was   this :    the  Macdonald-Cartier 
and  the  Cartier-Macdonald  Governments, 
which  had  for  years,  in  different  forms,   ruled 
the  country,  had  refused  to  give  us  reprcocnt- 
ation  by  population.     Our  natural  allies  also, 
the  Liberal  party  in  Lower  Canada — who,  I 
believe,  desired,  and  honestly  desired,  to  do 
the  best  they   could  to  meet  our  wishes — in 
like  manner  declared  the  impossibility  of  con- 
ceding to  us  this   principle.      Meanwhile  the 
Liberal  party  from  Upper  Conadafelt  that  the 
country  was  in  a  state  of  financial  embarrass- 
ment, and  that  an   amelioration  of  her  con- 
dition was  urgently  needed.      A  change  was 
absolutely  necessary.     It  was  wisely  thought 
that  it  was  better  to  have  half  a  loaf  than  no 
bread.     But  I  have  failed  to  see,  and   I  yet 
fail  to  see,  that  the  Liberal  party  of  Upper 
Canada  have  ever  given  up  the  advocacy  of  re- 
presentation by  population.  We  found  all  par- 
ties in  Lower  Canada — both  the  English-speak- 
ing population  and  French-speaking  population 
— refusing  to  concede  to  us  what  we  conceived 
to  be  this  just  and  proper  principle;  and  when 
the  opportunity  was  offered  to  us  of  relieving 
the  country  from  its  difficulties,  we  felt  that 
no  party  considerations  or  party  ties  should 
be  allowed  to  interfere   with   what  we  con- 
ceived to  be  our  sacred  duty  to  our  constitu- 
ents and  our   country.     (Hear,  hear.)     Not- 
withstanding the  high  personal  feeling  I  en- 
tertain for  the  liberal  members  from  Lower 
Cj.aada,I  cannot  help  saying  that  I  think  it 
61 


was  wrong  of  them  to  have  refused  us   the 
concession  of  the  principle  for  which  we  had 
so  long  contended,  and  I   feel   now   that  wo 
have  higher  aims  and^motives  than  those  of  a 
mere  partisan  character,  that  we  owe  a   duty 
to  our  constituents  and    the   country   which 
should  carry  greater  weight  with  it  than  party 
ties  and  party  feelings.     (Hear,  hear.)     The 
honorable  member  for  North  Ontario  (,Mr.  M. 
C.   Cameron)  has  made    an   attack  on  the 
President  of  the  Council  for  having  hitherto 
denounced  the  construction  of  the  Intercolo- 
nial Railway ;  and   there   is   no    doubt,  Mr. 
Spe ABLER,  that  if  honorable  membsrs  now   in 
opposition  were  desirous  of  entertaining  this 
House  for  a  few  hours,  they  could  do  so  with 
a  good  deal   of  effect   by   reading  the   past 
speeches  of  that  honorable  gentleman  and  the 
articles  that  have  appeared  from  time  to  time 
in  his  influentiid  paper,   the    Globe,  not  only 
upon  this   question,  but   upon    many    others 
which  have  engaged  the  attention  of  tlie  public 
mind.     But  I  believe  there  is  no  man  who 
felt  more  strongly  than  he  did  on  account  of 
the  difficulties  with  which  the   country  was 
surrounded,  and  all  honorable  gentlemen  will 
agree  with  me  when  I  say  that  I  am  persuaded 
that  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  did 
not  feign  the  leeling  he  munilested    in    this 
House   when    he   arose  and   avowed  his    in- 
tention, for  the  good  of  his  country,   of  join- 
ing with  the  men  whom  he  had  previously  de- 
QDunced.     (Hear,   hear.)     But  did  he  so  act 
without    a    purpose,    without  receiving  any- 
thing in  return  ?     No.     The  principle  advo- 
cated by  him  and  his  party  for  years  was  con- 
ceded ;  and  in  addition  to  that,  in  my  opinion, 
whatever  may  be  the  opinion  of  others — and 
it  is  an  opinion  I  have  held  for   years — by 
adopting  the  larger  scheme  we  attain  the  same 
result.       I    ask,     then,     should    the     Hon. 
President  of  the  Couqpil   be  denounced  now 
for  the  position  he  has  felt  it  his  duty  to  take  ; 
and,    especially,    should  he  be  denounced  by 
the  Liberal  party — by  those  with  whom  he  has 
worked  all  his  political  life — both  in  Upper 
Canada  and  in  Lower  Canr.da,  for  taking  the 
course  he  has  taken  in  common  with    others, 
when  by  so  doing  he  has    attained   that   for 
which    he    has  been   struggling   for   years  ? 
(Hear,    hear.)       I    believe     that    no     man 
can    leave    his     political     party, — nan   leave 
that    party    with    which     all    his     political 
sympathies    are   identified    and    with   which 
he   has    been   working  for  years, — and    step 
across    to     the     other     side    of   the    House 
without  deep  feeling.     And  I  do  believe  that 
the   President  of    the    Council    experienced 


474> 


acutely  the  position  he  felt  it  his  duty  to 
take  at  that  time.  And  I  can  safely  say  for 
rayself  that  such  is  my  own  feelin-jr  in  regard 
to  the  question  now  before  the  House.  If 
this  were  a  question  which  could  have  been 
carried  by  the  Liberal  party  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  without  their  coalescing  with 
the  conservatives,  I  should  feel  more  happy 
in  my  position  than  I  do  now.  But  to  re- 
vive the  old  feeling  and  associations,  to  return 
to  the  criminations  and  recriminations,  to  re- 
vert once  more  to  the  bitter  attacks  we  have 
heard  in  this  chamber,  could  not  be  justified 
for  a  moment.  And  the  Liberal  party  wisely 
came  to  the  understanding  that,  pending  the 
settlement  of  this  question,  they  would  let 
by-gones  be  by-gones.  I  earnestly  hope  that 
this  scheme  will  be  carried  out  without  poli- 
tical acrimony  or  personal  feeling.  What- 
ever may  be  its  result  hereafter,  time  alone 
will  determine.  But  as  a  Canadian,  I  feel 
— and  the  views  I  have  entertained  for  many 
years  only  strengthen  that  feeling  —  that 
whatever  my  personal  feelings  may  be,  it  is 
my  duty  to  aid  to  the  extent  of  my  ability  in 
the  consummation  of  this  great  project. 
(Cheers.)  It  has  been  said  that  information 
will  be  brought  down  relative  to  the  consti- 
tution of  the  lociil  legislatures.  Well,  pcr- 
hips,  that  may  accord  with  the  views  of  this 
House.  But  it  would  have  been  more  satis- 
factory to  me  could  the  scheme  have  been 
brought  down  while  we  are  discussing  the  re- 
solutions now  before  the  House.  If,  how- 
ever, the  Government  have  not  matured  that 
scheme,  or  if  they  feel  it  is  to  the  public  in- 
terest that  it  should  not  be  submitted  at  this 
time,  on  them  must  rest  the  responsibility. 
In  voting  for  these  resolutions,  I  am  simply 
voting  to  afiirni  the  principle  of  Confedera- 
tion of  the  provinces ;  and  if  the  propositions 
which  shall  hereafter  bo#brought  down  for 
the  formation  of  the  local  jioverninents  and 
Legislatures  arc  not  satisfactory  to  me ;  if  I 
conceive  them  to  be  unjust  in  principle  or  op- 
posed to  public  interest  and  policy,  I  shall 
feel  myw'lf  at  perfect  liberty  to  vote  against 
them.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  look  upon  the  two 
as  distinct  propositions. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Hear,   hear. 

Mr.  MoGIVERlN  — There  are  many 
things  in  these  resolutions  I  would  like  to  sec 
eliminated  ;  but  where  there  were  so  many 
parties  to  the  contract  or  partnership,  and 
where  there  were  ao  many  contending  views 
to  harmonise  and  interests  to  servo,  I  believe 
it  was  utterly  impossible  for  each  froviuce  to 
get  just  what  it  wanted.     We  have  the  best 


evidence  of  this  fact  from  the  peculiar  views 
taken  by  the  non-contccts  in  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces at  this  time.  They  say  they  are 
going  into  this  union  with  Canada,  which  is  a 
bankrupt  province,  and  that  they  will  be 
ruined  by  the  connection.  And  wc  heard 
only  a  day  or  two  ago  the  strange  idea  ex- 
pressed that  the  Intercolonial  Railway  was 
opposed  to  the  true  interests  of  Lower  Can- 
ada, but  from  an  Upper  Canadian  stand  point 
it  was  just  the  thing  that  is  wanted.  (Laugh- 
ter.) We  find  a  section  of  the  people  in 
Lower  Canada  opposing  the  work  on  the 
ground  that  it  will  tend  to  destroy  their  lan- 
guage and  nationality ;  and  we  find  also  the 
British  element  in  Lower  Canada  complain 
that  in  the  arrangement  for  the  Local  Le- 
gislature their  rights  and  privileges  will  be 
swept  away.  (Hear,  hear.)  On  the  other 
hand.  Upper  Canadians  are  opposing  the 
scheme  as  injurious  to  their  true  interests, 
and  asserting  that  the  financial  difficulties 
likely  to  arise  under  it  will  be  detrimental  to 
the  welfare  of  the  west ;  so  that  where  there 
is  such  great  diversity  of  opinion,  it  was  im- 
possible to  mature  a  scheme  which  should  be 
in  all  respects  perfect  and  satisfactory.  No 
doubt  Upper  Canada  has  some  cause  to  com- 
plain. For  instance,  the  eighty  cents  per 
head  for  carrying  on  the  local  governments 
appears  unfair  in  principle  to  Upper  Canada, 
and  as  such  they  have  reason  to  feel  dissatis- 
fied. This  apportionment  is  on  the  present 
basis  of  population,  and  whatever  may  be  the 
increase  in  numbers  of  the  western  section  of 
the  province,  if  even  we  increase  during  the 
next  ten  years  in  the  same  ratio  that  we  have 
been  increasing  for  the  past  ten  years ;  if  we 
double  our  population  we  shall  still  only  get 
the  eighty  cents  per  head  for  the  present  pop- 
ulation. There  is  no  doubt  this  is  an  object- 
ionable feature. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROAVN— Will  my  honorable 
friend  allow  me  to  assure  him  that  ho  is 
slightly  in  error,  and  to  show  him  how  he  is 
so?  Supposing  we  increase  in  population,  the 
other  provinccR  will  increase  also,  and  the 
only  unfairni'ss  that  could  possibly  exist  in 
the  c'.se  supposed  would  be  in  so  far  as  tiie 
population  of  Upper  Canada  was  relatively 
greater  thim  that  of  the  other  provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— It  is  a  matter  of 
ratio. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWxN— Yes,  it  is  simply  a 

question  of  ratio.     My  honorable  friend  will 

see  how  the  principle  works.     At  the  rate  we 

are  proceediug  now,  .some   2^,    '{,   or   4   per 

cent.,  it  would  take  a  gix'at  many  years  before 


475 


any  injustice  to  Upper  Canada  could  arise. 
And  then  my  honorable  friend  will  see  how  it 
is  to  be  distributed  afterwards  in  the  way  of 
population,  so  that  ulthough  there  might  be  a 
little  loss  in  the  first  instance,  there  would  be 
an  immense  gain  in  the  end. 

Mr.  McGIVERIN— I  am  glad  to  hear 
all  these  explanations.  As  1  said  before,  I 
wish  for  the  fullest  and  freeest  discussion. 
I  may  not  have  made  myself  acquainted  with 
all  the  details  of  the  scheme,  and  a  question 
of  this  importance  ought  to  be  discussed  in 
all  its  bearings.  This  is  a  point,  however, 
which  did  occur  to  me  as  objectionable.  Then 
the  imposition  of  an  export  duty  in  regard  to 
the  productions  of  some  of  the  provinces, 
appears  to  me  to  be  contrary  to  the  true 
principles  of  government.  But  it  is  said 
that  this  has  been  imposed  simply  in  the 
way  of  a  stumpage.  (Hear,  hear.)  There 
are,  no  doubt,  various  objections  which  may 
be  brought  against  these  resolutions.  There 
are  grounds  enough  for  honorable  gentle- 
men in  the  opposition  to  make  excellent 
speeches  against  them.  But  what  I  would 
wish  to  impress  upon  the  House  is  this,  that 
we  should  approach  this  subject  in  a  spirit  of 
candor,  honestly  desiring  to  meet  the  question 
fairly  in  all  its  bearings.  The  question  is 
simply  this.  Shall  we  vote  for  these  resolu- 
tions, notwithstanding  their  imperfections? 
I  freely  admit  that,  in  my  view,  there  are 
imperfections  in  the  scheme.  But  shall  we, 
on  that  account,  take  the  responsibility  of 
throwing  out  the  resolutions  ?  That,  I  think, 
is  the  question  we  have  to  consider.  Honor- 
able gentlemen  may  differ  from  me,  but  I  feel 
that  the  advantages  of  the  contemplated  union 
are  such,  that  notwithstanding  the  objection- 
able features  in  the  scheme,  I  would  not  be 
doing  my  duty  to  my  constituents,  I  would 
not  be  discharging  the  duty  I  owe  to  my 
country,  were  I  to  vote  against  it,  and  thus 
lend  my  influence  to  prevent  the  consummation 
of  that  union.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  thank  the 
House  for  the  indulgence  accorded  to  me,  and 
I  only  add  this,  in  conclusion,  that  I  would 
ask  every  honorable  gentleman,  in  consider- 
ing this  scheme,  to  look  at  it  in  all  its  possible 
bearings,  free  from  personal  or  party  preju- 
dices ;  to  look  at  the  position  we  occupy  and 
have  occupied  for  years  past  in  this  country  ; 
to  look  at  the  wretched  spectacle  we  presented 
here,  night  after  night,  when  placed  in  antag- 
onism to  each  other  by  our  sectional  feelings 
and  jealousies ;  and  to  say  whether  it  is  pos- 
sible that  we  can  be  placed  in  a  worse  or  more 
humiliating  position  than  that  which  we  have 


occupied  hitherto  on  account  of  those  sectional 
antagonisms.  Let  honorable  geti'tlemen  con- 
sider the  matter  in  a  proper  spirit,  desiring  to 
take  that  course  which  is  for  the  best  interests 
of  the  country.  If  the  principle  of  this  union 
is  wrons:,  the  scheme  should  be  rejected  ;  if, 
on  the  other  hand,  it  is  right,  it  deserves  our 
support.  And  as  yet  I  have  not  heard  one 
honorable  member  of  this  House  declare  him- 
self opposed  to  the  principle  of  union.  The 
objections  have  been  only  to  details.  And  I 
do  say  that  when  honorable  gentlemen  oppose 
a  scheme  of  this  sort,  while  admitting  that 
they  are  favorable  to  a  union  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces, they  ought  to  propose  their  own 
scheme,  and  submit  it  to  the  House  for  its 
approval  or  rejection.     (Cheers.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN  then  moved  that  the  de- 
bate be  adjourned. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON,.  in  seconding  the 
motion  for  the  adjournment  of  the  debate, 
said — I  am  sure  the  House  has  listened  with 
very  great  pleasure  to  the  speech  of  my  hon- 
orable friend  the  member  for  Lincoln  (Mr. 
McGiverin).  I  certainly  did.  It  is  true 
that,  towards  its  conclusion,  he  halted  some- 
what in  his  logic.  Still,  on  the  whole,  it  was 
an  able  and  spirited  speech.  fHear,  hear.) 
But  there  is  one  point  to  which  I  desire  to 
c;dl  the  attention  of  honorable  gentlemen  op- 
posite, as  arising  out  of  the  speech  of  my  hon- 
orable friend,  and,  as  bearing  on  the  future 
course  of  thi.s  debate,  it  is  a>  matter  of  very 
great  importance.  He  said  that  he  should 
oppose  this  scheme — that  he  should  vote 
against  this  proposition — unless  he  had  the 
distinct  assurance  of  the  Government  that  the 
enlargement  of  our  canals  and  the  opening  of 
the  North-West  territory  should  proceed 
pari  passu  with  the  construction  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railroad.  I  ask  him  whether  I  have 
stated  his  position  correctly. 

Mr.  McGIVERIN— I  will  explain— 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON — I  want  no  explana- 
tions. I  want  him  merely  to  say  whether  I 
have  rendered  him  correctly  or  not.  If  I 
have  incorrectly  represented  him,  he  will  say 
so.  I  am  quite  sure  I  have  not.  While  he 
was  making  that  statement  I  emphasized  it  in 
the  usual  parliamentary  way,  and  the  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  em- 
phasized it  also,  giving  his  assent  to  it,  as  I 
understood.  Now,  I  think  it  is  of  the  last 
importance  that  wc  should  understand  'dis- 
tinctly whether  the  Government  do  really  take 
that  view  of  the  matter;  whether  my  honor- 
able friend  correctly  stated  the  position  of  the 
Government  in  that  respect ;  and  whether  the 


476 


"Hear,  hear"  of  my  honorable  friend  the 
President  of  the  Council  was  to  bo  understood 
as  implying  the  assent  of  the  Government  to 
that  proposition. 

Mr.  xMcGIVERIX— If  my  hon.  friend 
will  allow  me  a  moment  to  answer  his  ques- 
tion, it  may  save  a  good  deal  of  discus- 
sion. What  I  said  w;is  this — that  if  I  be- 
lieved that  the  Government  would  not  honestly 
and  faithfully  carry  out  their  pledges  with 
regard  to  the  opening  of  the  North-West  and 
the  enlargement  of  the  canals,  the  improve- 
ment of  our  internal  and  water  communica- 
tions ;  if  I  believed  they  did  not  honestly  and 
sincerely  intend  to  carry  out  those  measures, 
I  would  oppose  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— "  Hand  in  hand  " 
was  the  expression  used.  (Cries  of  "  No, 
no!"  "Yes,  yes!") 

Ho.v.  Mr.  BROWN— I  apprehend  my 
honorable  fricuJ  f.  uiu  Lir.ci^ln  perfectly  under- 
stood what  he  was  speaking  about.  What  he 
said  was  this — that  he  understood  the  Govern- 
ment were  pledgi  1,  as  a  portion  of  their 
policy,  to  the  enlai  _^3meut  of  the  canals  and 
the  opening  up  of  :he  North-West,  as  well  as 
the  construction  ot  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
and  that  he  believed  we  were  sincere  in  the 
earnest  determination  to  so  on  with  all  those 
works  at  the  earliest  possible  moment.  He 
was  perfectly  correct  in  making  that  state- 
ment. The  (jrovcrninent  are  pledged  to  that. 
If  my  honorable  friend  has  any  doubt  about 
it,  he  will  find  it  there  in  the  conditions  of 
agreement  come  to  by  the  Conference.  And 
I  apprehend  it  will  be  found  that  my  honor- 
able friend  is  not  in  the  slightest  degree  more 
earnest  in  his  desire  to  promote  those  improve- 
ments than  are  my  colleagues  who  sit  beside 
me,  from  Lower  as  well  as  Upper  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

llo.v.  Mr.  Holton  and  Mr.  Bellerosk 
risinir  almost  simultaneously, 

Mr.  speaker  stated  that  Mr.  Belle- 
rose  had  first  caught  his  eye. 

xMr.  RELLEROSE— Mr.  Speaker,  be- 
fore I  give  my  vote  on  the  great  question 
which  now  engages  the  attention  of  this  hon- 
orable House,  I  consider  it  a  duty  to  my 
con.stituent8  and  also  to  myself  that  I  should 
say  a  few  word.s  on  thi.s  important  measure, 
and  reply  to  some  of  the  arguments  put  ibrth 
by  the  lionorablc  iiKiiihi'r.s  of  tlie  opposition — 
arguments  specious  in  itppearunoe,  but  in 
reality  futile  auii  unworthy  of  consiiler.ition. 
Were  I  to  p.ini.nlariz^  i.ll  llie  ililli .ullifs 
which  have  threatened  lor  Home  years  past  to 
bring   the  wheels  of  goverumeut  to  a  dead- 


lock,  to  relate  the   history  of  all  the  crises 
through    which    the   various    administrations 
which  have  succeeded  each  other  have  passed, 
to  recall  to  your  minds  the  state  of  anarchy 
which  has  for  some  time  threatened  to  render 
all  I'.gislation  impossible,  it  would  be  a  waste 
of  time  and  trouble,  as  on  all  sides  there  is 
but  one  opinion,  acknowledging  the  lamentable 
position  of  the  province,  and  the  urgent  neces- 
sity of  finding  a  remedy  for  the  evils  which 
beset  the  future  of  our  country.     It  was,  Mr. 
Speaker,  in  obedience  to  the  voice  of  a  whole 
people  calling  on  the  patriotism  of  their  states- 
men, conjuring  them  to  seek  out  some  remedy 
for  the   cruel  distemper  which  pervades  the 
body  politic  and  threatens  it  with  dissolution, 
that  the  members  of  the  administration,  for- 
getting the  past,  buryiuiT  in  oblivion  all   for- 
mer disagreements,  united  together  to  search 
for  the  grand  remedy,   the  value  of  which  we 
are  now  to  discuss.     Those  honorable  gentle- 
lucu  hive  deserved  well  of  their  country,  and 
I  am   glad    that  I  can   avail    myself  of  the 
present  occasion  to  offer  them  my  thanks  and 
my   congratulations   for   the   admirable    and 
noble  sentiments  of  patriotism  of  which  they 
have  given  proofs — proofs  well  understood  by 
the  people,  and  certain  to  be  repaid  by  their 
applause.     I  have  already  taken   occasion,  at 
the  commencement  of  the  session,  to  express 
my  views  of  the  general  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation  which  the  Government   has  presented 
for  the  consideration  of  this   House.     I  de- 
clared, Mr.  Speaker,  that  I  felt  not  the  least 
hesitation  in  declaring  myself  favorable  to  the 
union,   but  that  I  could  have  wished,  were  it 
practicable,    that   certain    ot    the   resolutions 
might   be    amended.      It   would    bo   usoles.*, 
therefore,  to  repeat  what  1  said  on  this  head, 
and  I  proceed   to  examine   the  arguments  of 
the  opponents  of  the  plan.     It  has  been  said 
— the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaira   has 
said,  I  believe — that  the  people  had  had  no 
oppcrtunity  of  expressing   their  opinions  on 
this  important  measure.     If  we  look  back  at 
the  occurrences  of  the  last  six  month;?,  when 
we  look  at  all  that  has  been  said  and   done  in 
that  time,  and  recollect  all  the  falsehoods  and 
deceptions  uttered   and  attempted  to   be  im- 
posed on  the   people  by  the  cuemios  of  the 
measure,  we   must   arrive   at  a  very  diflbrent 
conclusion  from  that  of  the  hoiior.dtlo  member 
for    Hoohelaga    and    his    friends.       The    last 
session  was    hardly  well  concluded   when  the 
opponents  ul' the  present  Government  took  the 
ficlil.  Mnt  til  di.'^cu.ss  in  a  frank  and  loyal  S})irit 
the  promise   made  by  the  Administration  that 
they  intended  to  seek  iu  the  Federation  of  the 


477 


Canadas,  or  of  all  the  provinces  of  British 
North  America,  a  remedy  for  all  our  sectional 
difficulties,  but,  on  the  contrary,  with  a  stead- 
fast resolution  to  labor  with  all  their  might  to 
crush  the  Coalition.  Such  was  their  design, 
and  their  works  have  been  consistent.  What 
indeed  have  we  since  beheld?  Men  who  for 
years  past  have  devoted  their  pen  to  the  unhal- 
lowed work  of  undermining  the  Catholic  reli- 
gion and  vilifying  its  ministers,  who  have 
long  aimed  at  destroying  in  the  minds  of 
French-Canadians  all  love  for  their  peculiar 
institutions — the  safeguards  of  our  nation- 
ality ;  men  who  more  recently  promulgated 
dissertations  on  rationalism  which  our  pre- 
lates have  condemned;  these  men  we  have 
seen,  professing  to  be  suddenly  struck  and 
animated  with  flowing  zeal  in  favor  of  our 
institutions,  oiir  religion  and  our  clergy,  take 
the  field,  and,  uninvited  by  any,  canvass 
the  country,  descending  to  entreat  all  who 
loved  their  nationality  to  join  them  in  their 
crusade,  and  representing  to  them  that  those 
who  gave  in  to  the  plans  of  the  Grovernment 
would  be  accessories  to  the  annihilation  of 
their  religion,  the  murder  of  their  good  pas- 
tors, and  the  ruin  of  the  people  themselves  by 
the  load  of  taxes  which  would  be  laid  on  them. 
They  conjured  them  to  lose  no  time  in  pro- 
testina;  ao-ainst  this  dreadful  scheme  of  Con- 
federation,  which  was  sure  to  ruin  and  destroy 
them.  Have  we  not  seen,  moreover,  a  press, 
conducted  by  a-  spirit  of  unbridled  license, 
calling  itself  the  protector  of  the  people,  scat- 
tering insults  and  abuse  on  the  heads  of  the 
members  of  the  existing  Government,  calum- 
niating some  and  holding  up  all  as  objects  of 
contempt,  representing  the  Lower  Canadian 
members  of  it  as  ready  to  sell  their  country 
for  filthy  lucre,  for  the  fruits  of  office,  pub- 
lishing violent  diatribes  condemnatory  of  Con- 
federation, falsely  purporting  to  be  written  by 
members  of  the  clergy,  &c.,  employing,  in  short, 
all  means  to  excite  the  prejudices  of  the  peo- 
ple against  the  scheme  of  the  Grovernment ; 
•and  what  has  been  the  result  ?  The  people 
listened  to  them,  but  were  so  far  from  answer- 
ing to  the  appeal  made  to  them,  that  up  to 
this  time  hardly  any  petitions  have  been  pre- 
sented to  this  House  against  the  plan  of  Con- 
federation. Now,  if  the  Opposition  have  not 
been  able  to  convince  the  people  that  these 
constitutional  changes  are  prejudicial  to  Low- 
er Canada,  when  they  discussed  the  subject 
without  contradiction  in  their  own  way,  will 
they  find  better  success  when  the  friends  of 
the  cause  are  at  hand  to  refute  their  argu- 
ments and  to  shew  up  what  kind  of  patriot- 


ism is  theirs?  I  think  not.  I  may  then  safely 
assume  that  the  people  have  had  the  oppor- 
tunity of  pronouncing  against  the  project,  but 
have  refused  to  do  so ;  and  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  is  mistaken  when  he 
declares  that  an  appeal  to  the  country  is  ne- 
cessary in  order  to  ascertain  the  opinion  of 
the  public  concerning  it.  Year  by  year  that 
honorable  gentleman  complains  that  our  elec- 
tion laws  are  defective  ;  that  money  prevails 
to  the  prejudice  of  merit  in  our  election  con- 
tests. How  can  he  then  demand  that  so  mo- 
mentous a  question  as  this  of  the  union  of  the 
provinces  should  undergo  the  ordeal  of  a  pop- 
ular vote,  without  any  other  view  than  that  of 
involving  the  country  in  trouble  and  expense 
to  the  extent  of  several  hundred  thousand  dol- 
lars ?  I,  for  my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  am  op- 
posed to  an  appeal  to  the  people.  Every 
member  has  had  time  to  consult  the  opinion 
of  his  constituents  at  leisure,  and  aloof  from 
the  turmoil  and  agitation  incidental  to  an 
election.  In  this  way,  when  the  project  sub- 
mitted by  the  Government  shall  have  under- 
gone the  ordeal  of  a  vote  of  this  Honorable 
House,  we  shall  have  the  satisfaction  of  say- 
ing with  truth  — "  So  would  public  opinion 
have  it  to  be."  It  is  true  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Hochelaga  tells  us  that  in  all  the 
counties  in  which  meetings  have  been  held, 
the  people  have  given  their  voices  against 
Confederation.  To  this  assertion  I  have  no 
need  to  make  any  answer.  All  the  honorable 
members  of  this  House  are  well  aware  of  the 
means  used  by  the  opponents  of  Confederation 
to  procure  the  passing  of  resolutions  to  their 
liking  at  meetings  generally  representing 
small,  nay  very  small,  minorities  of  the  elect- 
ors ;  and  to  cite  only  one  example,  I  shall  take 
the  case  of  the  county  of  Hochelaga,  in 
which  the  votes  are  about  2,400  in  number. 
The  friends  of  the  honorable  member  for 
that  county,  without  any  previous  notice, 
proceeded  on  a  certain  Sunday  in  the  month 
of  January  last  to  one  of  the  parishes  of  that 
county,  being  that  of  Sault-au-R6collet, 
which  contains  about  three  hundred  voters. 
There  they  thundered  out  their  anathemas 
against  Confederation,  as  being  subver^^ive  of 
religion,  intended  to  crush  the  clergy,  and 
ruin  the  people,  finishing  with  an  appeal  to 
the  patriotism  of  their  audience  and  entrea- 
ties that  they  would  raise  their  voices  against 
so  objectionable  a  measure.  Next  day  we  read 
in  the  opposition  papers  :  "  In  the  county  of 
Hochelaga,  Confederation  was  unanimously 
condemned  by  both  parties  on  Sunday  last, 
at  SauIt-au-K^coUet."     The  honorable  geu- 


478 


tlemaa  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  has  told  us  that 
the  meeting  of  the  county  of  Laval,  which 
was  held  before  the  session,  had  been  scarcely 
advertised,  and  that  I  had  not  ventured  to 
put  the  question  of  Confederation  on  its  trial. 
I  beg  to  remark,  sir,  that  the  honorable  mem- 
ber is  not  candid  in  making  this  assertion, 
and  is  ignorant  of  what  did  really  occur. 
The  meeting  of  the  county  of  Laval  was  an- 
nounced at  the  doors  of  the  several  churches 
in  the  county ;  afterwards  an  influential  per- 
son in  each  parish,  after  mass  on  the  feast  of 
the  Epiphany,  urged  the  electors,  one  and  all, 
to  attend  the  important  meeting  at  which  the 
question  of  Confederation  was  to  be  taken 
into  consideration.  The  opponents  of  the 
measure  were  invited  to  meet  me,  as  I  can 
sufficiently  prove  in  due  time  and  place,  but 
their  hearts  failed  them — none  came.  At  that 
meeting,  composed  of  a  majority  of  my  con- 
stituents, I  stated  at  great  length  all  that  the 
opponents  of  the  project  had  to  say  against 
it,  and  the  reasons  which  its  friends  and  ad- 
vocates had  to  advance  in  its  favor.  I  then 
asked  to  be  informed  of  the  views  of  the 
electors.  They  desired  me  to  give  my  own 
on  the  subject.  I  declared  that  unless  the 
sense  of  the  county  was  opposed  to  the  mea- 
sure, I  was  inclined  to  give  it  my  support. 
This  declaration  was  followed  by  an  unani- 
mous vote,  approving  of  my  conduct  in  Par- 
liament, and  declaring  that  having  full  confi- 
dence in  me,  they  left  me  at  full  liberty  to 
vote  according  to  my  conscience  ou  this  great 
measure.  Let  the  hou.  member  deny  this  if  he 
can.  The  hon.  member  (lion.  Mr.  Dorion) 
has  stated  "  that  it  was  not  riG-htto  change  the 
Constitution  without  an  appeal  to  the  decision 
of  the  people."  As  a  complete  answer  to  that 
assertion  I  shall  quote  the  words  spoken  by 
the  honorable  gentleman  on  the  2ud  February, 
1859—"  If  he  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  had  re- 
mained in  power,  he  would  liave  proposed  a 
measure  for  the  settlement  of  the  representa- 
tion question,  and  would  have  submitted  it  to 
the  decision  of  the  House,"  &c.,  &c.  Has  not 
the  honorable  member  changed  his  opinions  ? 
AVhen  a  member  of  the  Government  in  1858, 
he  did  not  admit  that  the  people  liad  the  right 
to  be  consulted  on  the  constitutional  changes 
he  wished  to  propose ;  but  as  a  Leader  of  tlie 
Opposition,  in  1865,  he  refu.scs  to  the  Legis- 
lature the  right  of  cllecting  such  changes 
without  an  appeal  to  the  people  :  Tanpora 
matmitur  el  iios  mutdiiiur  in  illis.  What  a 
contradiction  !  Such  is  the  effect  of  party 
spirit.  The  honorable  member  for  Ilochelaga 
says,  "  that  he  had  been  accused  of  having 


been  in  favor  of  a  Confederation  of  all  the 
provinces  of  British  North  America,  but  he 
peremptorily  denied  the  truth  of  that  state- 
ment ;  on  the  contrary,  he  had  always  opposed 
that  union  as  a  measure  calculated  to  bring  us 
into  trouble  and  to  create  embarrassment." 
Mr.  Speaker,  either  the  honorable  gentle- 
man's logic  or  else  his  sincerity  is  at  fault. 
Let  us  examine.  On  reading  over  the 
speeches  cited  by  himself  in  support  of  his 
denial,  what  do  I  find  ?  "A  tmie  will  per- 
haps come  when  the  Confederation  of  all  the 
provinces  will  be  necessary,  but  I  am  not  in 
I'avor  of  it  at  this  moment.  "  Further  on  I 
find :  "I  trust  the  time  will  come  when  it 
will  be  desirable  for  the  Canadas  to  unite 
federatively  with  the  Lower  Provinces,  but 
the  time  has  not  yet  arrived  for  such  a  mea- 
sure."—(Speech  of  3rd  May,  1860.)  Now 
what  is  the  conclusion,  the  only  logical  con 
elusion  to  be  deduced  from  the  honorable 
member's  words  ?  None  other  than  the  Ibl- 
lowing :  that  in  all  these  instances  he  declared 
himself  in  favor  of  a  Confederation  of  all 
the  provinces,  sooner  or  later.  The  honor- 
able member  therefore  deceived  his  electors 
when  he  said  to  them  in  his  manifesto  of  the 
7th  November  last :  "  Every  time  I  have  had 
an  opportunity  I  have  invariibiy  expressed 
myself  opposed  to  any  union,  whether  Lcgis-r 
lative  or  Federal,  with  the  Maritime  Provin- 
ces." He  wished,  therefore,  to  misloud  this 
House,  when  in  his  speech  at  the  coiuuieuce- 
ment  of  this  debate  he  attempted  to  show 
that  he  had  bceu  wrongfully  accused  ou  th^t 
point,  and  that  the  expressions  he  had  used 
had  been  tortured  into  every  shape  in  order 
to  establish  the  attacks  made  upon  him.  lu 
the  political  letter  of  the  honorable  member 
to  his  constituents,  to  which  I  idluded  a  mo- 
ment ago,  I  find  the  following  words  :  ''  The 
proposed  union  appears  to  me  to  be  prema- 
ture." If  the  words  have  any  meaning  at 
all,  do  they  not  prove  that  the  honorable 
member  admitted  the  necessity  of  sucli  a 
union  sooner  or  later  ?  The  honorable  mem- 
ber was  thercl'ore  not  sincere  when  ho  wrote 
to  his  electors  that  ho  was  idways  opposed  to 
the  Coni'ederation  of  the  provinces  of  IJrit- 
Lsh  North  America.  (Hear.)  The  honorable 
gentleman  stat:d  '"that  he  could  not  umlei- 
stand  how  Confederation  could  incroa.so  our 
moans  of  delenoo,  ^:  *  *  *  *  that  if  the 
union  brought  any  advantage  in  that  respect, 
the  ^Maritime  Provinces  and  not  Canada  would 
reap  the  benefit.  "  If  the  honorable  member 
iiad  taken  the  trouble  to  study  the  question, 
I  think  ho  would  have  lUTived  at  a  different 


479 


conclusion.     Suppose  that  peace  were  estab- 
lished amongst  our  neighbors,  and  that  the 
government  of  the  United  States  decided  to 
effect  the   conquest  of   the  British  colonies, 
does  the  honorable  member  think  it  would  be 
difficult   for  the   armies  of  the  great  republic 
to  enter  the  Province  of  New  Brunswick  and 
conquer  it,  and  to  continue  their  triumphal 
march  through  Nova  Scotia,  Prince  Edward 
Island  and  Newfoundland  ?   And  what  would 
the  honorable  member  think  of  our  position 
if,  in  order  to  find  means  of  communicating 
with  the  rest  of  the  world,  we  were  compelled 
to    solicit    the    permission   of    our  powerful 
neighbors  ?     I  ask  him  whether,  if  these  con- 
quests were    made,   Canada   would  not  find 
herself  in  a  more  critical  position  than  she  is 
to-day  ?      Our  position  would  no  longer  be 
tenable,   and  despite  our    repugnance  for  a 
union  with  the  neighboring  States,  we  should 
find  ourselves  so  placed  that  there  would  re- 
main to  us  no  alternative  but  union  with  the 
United  States.      To    defend    the    Maritime 
Provinces,    therefore,   is  to   defend   Canada ; 
to  protect  them  against  invasion  is,  therefore, 
to  protect  Canada,  to  increase  our  own  power 
and   strength,  and  to   augment  our  means  of 
defence ;  viewincr  thines  in   this  light,  what 
matters  it  that  in  proportion  to  our  population 
the  greater   share  of  the  expenditure  to  be 
undergone  by   the    Federal  Government  for 
general    defence    must    be  met  by  Canada, 
since   all   that  expenditure   will    benefit    us, 
and    since   it  is  essentially  necessary  for  our 
defence.     (Applause.)     The  honorable  mem- 
ber will,    perhaps,    reply    that   all   the   pro- 
vinces   mia;ht    come    to    an    understandinar 
and   bind    themselves   towards    one    another 
for  these  critical  times,  and  that  there  would 
then    be     no     necessity    ibr     the    proposed 
union.      Mr.  Speaker,  the  honorable  mem- 
ber knows,  and  every  one  acquainted,  I   do 
not  say  with  the  art  of  defence,  but  with  the 
mere   elements    of  that  art  which   common 
sense  it-self  suggests,  knows  that  the  first  prin- 
ciple, the  fundamental  principle  of  that  art  is 
unity  of  authority,  unity  of  action ;  and  if  any 
honorable  member  doubt  the  neces.sity  of  this, 
let  hiiu  peruse  the  history  of  the  neighboring 
republic  and  he  wi'il  there  see  the  sad  evils  re- 
sulting from  want  of  unity.     "  The   proposed 
changes  are  not  at  all  necessary,"  says  the  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga.     I  admit  that  it  was 
with  no  little  surprise  I  heard  the  honorable 
member  express  himself  thus,  remembering  as 
I  did  that  in  every  instance  he  had  expressed 
the  contrary  opinion,   as   I  shall  now  prove. 
In  1858,  on  the  7th  July,  he  said  ; — 


Ere  long  it  will  become  impossible  to  resist  the 
demand  of  Upper  Canada  ;  if  representation  by 
population  is  not  granted  now,  it  wilb  infallibly 
be  carried  hereafter,  but  then  without  guarantees 
for  the  protection  of  the  French  Canadians.  The 
repeal  of  the  union,  Federal  union,  representa- 
tion by  popu]ation,".or  some  other  great  change 
n^ust  absolutely  be  carried  out,  and  for  my  part  I 
am  prepared  to  examine  the  question  of  repre- 
sentation by  population,  &c.  I  am  ready,  in  like 
manner,  to  take  into  consideration  the;projectjof 
a  Confederation  of  the  provinces,  which  would 
leave  to  each  section  the  administration  of  its 
local  affairs,  fie,  and  to  the  General  Government 
the  administration  of  the  public  lands. 

On   the   10th  August,-1858,  addressing  the 
citizens   of  Montreal,   he   said :    "  We    (the 
Brown-Dorion    Government)    found     that 
these    difficulties   might  be   smoothed    away 
either  by  adopting  a  Federal  union  or. some 
other  modification  of  our  Constitution  based 
upon  representation  by  population.''      In  his 
election  address  of  the   13  th  August  of  the 
same  year,  he  adds  :  "  There  was  no  room  for 
hesitation  and  the  discussion  soon  suggested 
that  by  means  of  constitutional  changes,  ac- 
companied by  proper  checks  uiid  guarantees, 
&c.,    or  by  the  application  of  the   Federal 
principle,  it  was  possible  to  prepare  a  measure 
which  would  meet  the  approval  of  the  major- 
ity of  Upper  and  of  Lower  Canada,   while 
adopting  population  as  the  basis  of  representa- 
tion."     On  the  2nd  February,  1859,  in  his 
speech  on 'the  address,  &c.,  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman said :    ''  That  if  he  had  remained  in 
power  he  would  have  proposed  a  measure  for 
the  settlement  of  the  representation   question, 
&:c.,  admitting  the  principle  of  representation 
by    numbers."       On     the    3rd   May,    1860, 
the  honorab  le  memberdeclared  in  the  House  : 
'•  A  year  ago  the  whole  Cabinet  admitted  that 
constitutional  changes  were  absolutely  neces- 
sary, &c.     But  if  Upper  Canada  desires  re- 
presentation by  population,   I  am   ready   to 
grant  it,   for  I  am   convinced  that  an  ever- 
increasing  number  of  representatives   of  the 
people  will  come  here  to  claim  it  after  each 
election,  as  a  measure  of  justice.      I  am  con- 
vinced that  there  will  be  a  collision  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  '     These  extracts 
prove  undeniably  the  truth  of  the  statement 
I  advanced  a  moment  ago.     How  then  is  the 
conduct  of  the  honorable  gentleman  to  be  ex- 
plained ?     How  can  any  one  put  faith  in  the 
sincerity  of  the  opposition  he  now  offers  to  the 
project  under  consideration  ?     Clearly,   Mr. 
Speaker,  party  spirit  is  the  motive  of  his 
opposition  to  the  measure.      When   a  minis- 
ter, the  Hon.  Mr.  DoRiON  admitted  the  diffi- 


480 


culty  of  the  position  ;  he  acknowledged  that  a 
speedy  remedy  was  required  in  order  to  pre- 
vent a  collision  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada ;  he  was  prepared  to  seek  out  means 
of  remedying  these  evils;  but  now  that  he  is 
in  opposition  he  no  longer  sees  the  difficulties  ; 
the  position  is  a  good  one,  the  proposed 
changes  are  no  longer  necessary ;  and,  in  or- 
der to  oppose  them,  to  what  length  is  he  not 
prepared  to  go  ?  The  honorable  member  uses 
his  influences  over  a  respectable  old  man,  who 
heretofore  had  remained  apart  from  political 
struggles  ;  he  persuades  him  that  his  country 
is  on  the  brink  of  an  abyss ;  he  tells  him  how 
necessary  and  what  an  imperative  duty  it  is 
for  all  good  citizens  to  unite  for  the  defence  of 
our  institutions,  our  language,  our  usages,  in 
fact  our  very  national  existence.  And  the 
good  old.  gentleman  tears  himself  from  his 
beloved  retirement  and  becomes  the  will- 
ing iustrument  of  a  factious  opposition. 
I  might  have  believed  in  the  sincerity  of  the 
honorable  gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  Dorion)  if  I 
had  heard  him  admit  that  he  had  changed  his 
opinions  and  say  that  he  had  formerly  enter- 
tained certain  views  on  the  difficulty  of  our 
position  and  the  necessity  of  providing  a  reme- 
dy. But  no,  he  comes  to  us  with  the  assurance 
to  declare  that  he  has  never  changed  his 
opinions,  and  yet  the  journals  and  debates  of 
the  House  are  before  him  to  convince  him  of 
the  contrary.  What  a  position.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  honorable  gentleman  added — "  The  peo- 
ple are  satisfied  with  their  present  position." 
8ince  last  session  more  than  twenty  counties 
have  been  called  upon  to  elect  new  represent- 
atives, and  they  have  all,  one  perhaps  except- 
ed, elected  supporters  of  the  Government  and 
of  the  scheme  which  is  now  under  discussion. 
And  yet  the  honorable  member  tells  us,  with 
an  appearance  of  good  faith  which  I  shall  not 
animadvert  on  now,  that  the  people  are  satis- 
fied with  their  position  ;  and  lastly,  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  says — "  Confed- 
eration is  direct  taxation."  The  honorable 
gentleman  is  the  very  last  who  ought  to  have 
raised  this  objection.  Does  he  forget  that,  in 
1863,  one  of  the  members  of  his  Government, 
the  Honoi-able  Minister  of  Finance,  when  he 
brought  down  his  budget,  declared  to  this 
House  that  the  time  had  arrived  when  it  had 
become  necessary  to  accustom  the  people  to 
direct  taxation.  What  possible  effect,  then,  can 
this  objection  have  in  the  mouth  of  the  hon- 
orable gentlem;)u,  other  than  to  aiVord  a  still 
further  proof  of  the  absence  of  good  I'aith 
which  he  has  displayed  in  the  discussion  ol" 
this  imporUint  measure  of  the  Federal  union? 


Besides,  the  present  Honorable  Minister  of 
Finance,  in  his  learned  speech  on  this  ques- 
tion, has  given  a  most  lucid  explanation  of  the 
question  of  the  finances,  and  has  made  it  clear 
to  us  that  the  local  governments  will  receive 
more  than  they  will  require  to  meet  their  ex- 
penditure. Lower  Canada,  whose  expendi- 
ture, including  the  interest  on  her  share  of 
the  debt  remaining  charged  to  Canada,  will 
amount  to  81,237,000,  will  receive  from  the 
Central  Government  eighty  cents  a-head, 
making  §900,000,  which,  added  to  its  other 
revenues,  will  make  its  annual  receipts  amount 
to  $1,440,000,  shewing  an  annual  excess  of 
revenue  over  expenditure  amounting  to  8200,- 
000.  The  objection  of  the  honorable  member 
is  only  a  pretext,  which  ought  not  to  shake 
the  confidence  of  the  most  timid.  The  hon- 
orable gentleman  denies  the  correctness  of  the 
calculations  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Sherbrooke,  it  is  true,  but  in  a  matter  of 
such  vast  importance,  the  House  and  the 
country  have  a  right  to  something  more  than 
a  mere  denial.  Let  honorable  gentlemen  on 
the  other  side  of  the  House  prove  the  error 
of  the  Honorable  Minister  of  Finance,  and 
then,  and  not  before,  they  may  hope  to  bring 
conviction  home  to  the  friends  )f  the  scheme. 
I  now  come  to  the  argument-i  of  the  honor- 
able member  for  Lotbini^re.  Since  I  first 
took  my  seat  in  Parliament,  I  had  learned  to 
esteem  that  honorable  gentleman  ;  his  conduct, 
always  so  honorable,  and  the  good  faith  which 
appeared  to  govern  his  whole  conduct  as  a 
legislator,  had  inspired  me  with  tho  highest 
respect  for  him.  But  what  was  my  surprise 
to  see  him  condescend  to  the  pai"t  which  we 
have  seen  him  play  on  the  occasion  of  his 
speech  on  tho  great  question  now  before  the 
House  1  To  act  a  comic  p;irt,  to  make  a  buf- 
foon of  one's  self,  and,  at  tho  same  time,  dis- 
cussing a  scheme  lor  a  new  Constitution 
which,  it  is  alleged,  will  obliterate  a  whole 
people,  and  reciting  from  history  all  the  evils 
which  democratic  doctrines  have  brought 
upon  the  human  race.  What  a  contrast  ! 
How  courageous  !  And  the  Montagne  ap- 
plauded the  recital  by  the  honorable  gentle- 
man of  all  the  scenes  of  horror,  discord,  revo- 
lution and  civil  war  which  deuucratic  princi- 
ples had  brought  about  in  all  those  i);irts 
of  the  world  in  which  those  notions  had 
prevailed.  What  impudence?  May  tho 
people,  Mr.  Sl'E.^KER,  profit  ])y  the  lesson. 
'J'hu  honorable  member  for  Lolbiui6re  has 
told  us  that  tho  Federal  system  oairicd  in 
itself  a  ])riuciplo  fatal  to  its  existence,  and  that 
all  confederations  died  of  consumption.  Then 


481 


opening  the  volume  of  history,  the  honorable 
gentleman  has  depicted  to  us  all  the  republics 
of  ancient  and  modern  times  gradually  suc- 
cumbing under  the  pressure  of  the  discord, 
civil  wars  and  revolutions  to  which  that  form 
of  government  had  given  birth.     The  argu- 
ment was  specious.     It  is  only  to  be  regretted, 
as  regards  the  honorable  gentleman,  that  the 
honorable  members  of  the  Quebec  Conference, 
convinced  that,  to  make  sure  of  the  future,  it 
was  advisable  to  consult  and  to  study  the  past, 
adopted  monarchical  principles  as  the  basis  of 
the  new  Confederation,  instead  of  founding  it 
on  those  democratic  doctrines  which  proved  so 
fatal  to  all  the  confederacies  referred  to  by 
the   honorable  gentleman.     Confederation  is 
the  obliteration  of  Lower  Canada,  the  honor- 
able member  for  Lotbiniere  has  further  told 
us.     I  am  far  from  being  of  that   opinion. 
Lower  Canada  has  since  the  union  beheld,  for 
a  period  of  twenty-four  years,  her  institutions 
at  the  mercy  of  a  majority  different  in  origin, 
in  religion,  and  in  lano;uaQ;e.     Under  Confed- 
eration,  on  the  other  hand,  Lower  Canada  will 
have  the  administration  of  all  she  holds  most 
dear — ^lier  nationality,  and  I  am  rejoiced   to 
find  in  the  speech  of  the  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  some  few  words  which  abun- 
dantly prove  my  proposition.      "It  will  be 
impossible,"  says  that  honorable  gentleman, 
"  for  the  Federal  Government  ever  to  inter- 
fere in  any  legislation  relating  to  the  institu.- 
tions  or  laws  of  Lower  Canada,     If  they  at- 
tempted, the  fifty  or  sixty  members  of  French 
origin,   uniting  as  one  man,  would  very  soon 
put  a  stop  to  any  legislation,  thus  compelling 
the  majority  to  afford  them  justice."     (Hear, 
hear.)     Lower  Canada,  it  is  true,  will  be  in  a 
minority  in  the  Central  Legislature,  but  we 
must  not  lose  sio-ht  of  the  fact  that  the  inter- 
ests  of  the  Lower  Provinces  are  less  identical 
with  the  interests  of  Upper  Canada  than  they 
are  with  those  of  Lower  Canada  ;  and,  more- 
over, our  position  in  the  centre  of  the  state 
also   adds   to  our  influence.     On   the   other 
hand,  responsible  government  is  essentially  a 
government  of  parties ;  the  national  French- 
Canadian   representation   will   have   all   that 
influence  which  fifty  or  sixty  votes  given  to 
one  side  of  the  House  or  the  other  can  exer- 
cise ;  the  one  party  or  the  other  will   count 
upon  the  votes  of  the  French-Canadian  section, 
just  as  in  England  the  Protestant  majority 
in  Parliament  is  not  made  up  without   the 
votes  of  the   Catholic   minority.     Thus   the 
position  of  Lower    Canada  will  be  a  strong 
one,  and  much  to  be  preferred  to  that  which 
it  holds  under  the   existing  union.     Other 

62 


honorable  members  have  assigned  as  reasons 
of  their  opposition  "  the  increased  expenditure 
entailed   by  the   proposed   union."     To  this 
objection  I  have  only,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  make 
the  same  reply  which  I  have  already  given  on 
another   occasion.       Will   not  Confederation, 
whilst   remedying   our   sectional    difficulties, 
contribute  to  the  progress  and  advancement  of 
these  colonies  ?    Will  it  not  increase  our  means 
of  defence,  securing  at  the  same  time  to  Lower 
Canada  the  exclusive  control  of  its  institutions, 
its  laws  and  its  nationality  ?     If  to  this  propo- 
sition we  are  compelled,  after  careful  consider- 
ation,   to   reply   in   the   negative,    then,   un- 
doubtedly, we  ought  to  reject  the  scheme; 
but  if,  on  the  contrary,  our  answer  is  in  the 
affirmative,  we  ought  to  accept  it,  even  al- 
thougli  our  expenditure  should  be  increased, 
for   it   becomes  the   means   of  safety — Saliis 
popiiU  sup7-ema  lex.     Certain   other  members 
object  "  that  the  Legislative  Council  is  to  be 
.subject   to    the   nomination   of  the   Crown." 
For  my  part,  I  see  no  ground  of  objection  in 
this ;  on  the  contrary,  I  look  upon  it  as  an 
argument  in  favor  of  the  scheme.     I  have 
always  been  opposed  to  the  elective  system  in 
that  branch  of  our  Legislature.     We  have  but 
one  class  in  our  society,  we  have   no  aristo- 
cracy.   Why,  then,  should  we  have  two  popu- 
lar chambers  ?    In  my  opinion,  it  would  have 
been   wiser   to  abolish   the   Council    than   to 
make  it  elective.     In  the  spirit  of  the  English 
Constitution,    the    Legislative    Council    is    a 
tribunal  for  purifying  the  legislation    of  the 
Commons,   for  weisihing   in   the   balance  of 
experience  the  probable  consequences  of  their 
legislation.    Those  advantages,  Mr.  Speaker, 
will  soon  disappear  under  tlie  elective  system, 
which  will  cause  the  members  of  that  body  to 
lose  that  perfect  independence  requisite  for  the 
proper  fulfilment  of  the  high  mission  entrusted 
to  them  by  the  Constitution.     In  addition  to 
this,   the    trouble    of  elections,   the  expenses 
which  they  entail,  and  the  other  difficulties 
inseparable  from   those  great  struggles,   will 
very  often  prevent  the  entrance  into  that  hon- 
orable body  of  the  most  competent  men,  whom 
the  disgust  inspired  by   all  the  difficulties  I 
have  just  referred  to,   will  induce  to   avoid 
public  life  and  to  remain  in  private  life.     For 
these  reasons  and  in  the  public  interest,  I  re- 
joice to  sec  the  return  to  the  nominative  prin- 
ciple.    (Hear,  hear.)     I  should  have  liked  to 
have  replied  to  some  of  the  other  argunicnts 
urged  by  honorable  members  of  the  Opposition, 
but  I  perceive,   Mr.  Speaker,  that  I  have 
already  taken  up  a  good  deal  of  time,  and  I 
consider  that  in  view  of  the  lateness  of  the 


482 


hour,  it  is  my  duty  to  conclude.  In  con- 
clusion I  may  be  permitted  to  add  that  I  am 
now  more  strongly  in  favor  of  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  that  we  are  now  consideiing, 
than  1  was  at  the  time  of  the  debate  on  the 
re-olutions  in  reply  to  the  Speech  iVom  the 
Tiirone.  Then  1  had  some  doubts,  but  the 
position  taken  by  the  opponents  of  the  mea- 
sure has  sufficed  to  dissipate  them.  A  cause 
must  indeed  be  a  bad  one,  Mr.  Speaker, 
when  such  men  as  those  whom  I  see  on  the 
other  side  cannot  find  arguments  to  support 
their  views,  which  are  worthy  of  being  dis- 
cusssed,  and  who,  in  order  to  maintain  their 
po^sition,  are  obliged  to  resort  to  such  means 
as  honorable  gentlemen  opposite,  with  their 
friends,  have  been  compelled  to  have  recourse 
to  since  it  has  been  under  consideration  to 
establish  a  Federal  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Provinces.     (Cheers.) 

On  motion  of  Mr.  DUNKIN,  the  debate  was 
then  adjourned. 


Monday,  February  27, 1865. 

Mr.  DUNKIN  said — Mr.  Si'Eaker,  almost 
every  one  who  has  yet  spoken  iu  this  debate 
has  begun  with  some  expression  of  his  feeling 
of  euibarrassiiient.  For  my  own  part,  I  should 
be  glad  if  I  could  begin  in  some  other  way, 
but  1  confiES  that  I  cannot.  For  I  certainly 
never  did  rise  to  address  this  House,  or  any 
other  public  body,  under  a  feeling  of  such 
oppressive  embarriissment  as  I  experience  at 
this  moment.  It  it  impossible  for  me,  occu- 
pying the  position  in  which  I  now  stand,  not 
to  teel  tha;  I  am  opposed  to  powerful  odds, 
and  that  there  is  a  sort  of  foregone  conclu- 
tsion,  here,  against  the  views  I  desire  to 
impress  uptu  the  House.  It  is  impossible 
for  me  not  to  feei  that  the  consid  rations  to 
which  I  have  to  ask  the  attention  of  the 
House,  are  so  many  and  so  complex,  that  no 
sort  of  justice  can  possibly  be  done  them 
within  the  limits  of  my  capacity  to  speak,  or 
of  youis  to  listen.  The  interests  at  stake, 
too,  are  so  large — so  much  larger  than  ever 
weie  at  stake  in  any  question  which  has  yet 
been  brought  under  the  notice  of  this  House, 
and  the  diliiculties  arising  out  of  the  question 
tie  80  fcrujidahle,  oiN'ing  iu  no  small  mea- 
Bure  to  what  1  must  call  ihe  many  reticences 
with  which  this  scheme  hai  been  laid  before 
us,  and  tho  ambiguiticH  of  expression  which 


everywhere  characterize  it,  as  to  tax 
seriously  the  courage  of  those  who  may 
attempt  to  discuss  it.  I  feel,  besides,  that 
I  am  entirely  cut  oflF  from  that  description 
of  remark  which  most  of  all  teods  to  make 
one's  speech  pleasant  to  listen  to  ;  for  I  can- 
not prophecy  smooth  things,  or  dilate  on 
the  marvels  of  progress  to  result  from  Con- 
federation in  the  iuture.  There  is  a  charac- 
ter of  hurry,  too,  impressed  on  the  whole 
style  of  this  debate;  everybody  ieels  so 
impatient,  that  one  can  scarcely  hope  to 
express  his  views  fully,  as  he  would  wish 
and  ought,  on  this  vast  scheme.  I  have  even 
the  fi-eling  that  my  capacity  for  exertion  is 
not  up  to  its  ordinary  standard.  I  address 
the  House  in  a  state  of  health  that  renders 
me  less  capable  than  usual  of  physical 
exertions.  I  must,  therefore,  beg  honorable 
members  to  make  allowance  for  these  circum- 
stances surrounding  my  position ;  believing 
me  that  what  I  wish  to  do  is  to  preserit  as 
briefly  as  I  can,  and  as  truthfully  as  I  can, 
my  own  deep  seated  convictions  on  the  ques- 
tion now  before  the  House.  (Hear,  hear.) 
So  strongly,  Mr.  Speaker,  do  I  feel  my 
inability  to  discuss  this  scheme  as  I  could 
wish,  that  I  almost  must  throw  myself  on 
the  forbearance  of  Lon.  mombers — that  I 
hardly  can  help  saying  I  should  be  iu  danger 
of  shrinking  from  the  duty  of  addressing 
you,  but  fur  the  recollection  that  time  and 
again,  I  have  known,  in  cases  of  contest 
almost  or  quite  as  discouraging  as  this,  that 
"  the  race  has  not  been  to  the  swift  nor  tha 
battle  to  tlie  strong" — that  time  and  again  I 
have  known  those  who  went  into  such  con- 
tests with  the  best  hopes  of  success,  di.<a]>- 
pointed  in  their  expectations.  I  do  know, 
and  I  know  that  others  know — I  believe  it 
to  be  the  general  conviction  of  those  whom 
I  address  to-night,  as  regards  this  question, 
that  whatever  of  popular  ieeling  tlurouuy 
seem  to  be  in  favor  of  the  views  I  have 
to  combat,  is  anything  but  the  deliberate 
result  of  a  well-considered  examination  of 
the  whole  subject — is  a  feeling  of  most 
sudden  growth,  and  of  most  pHS-^iug  char- 
acter. (Hear,  hear.)  IJofore  I  go  further, 
1  may  be  permitted  distinctly  to  accept  tho 
challenge  which  has  been  more  than  once 
thrown  out  on  the  other  side  a.s  to  tho  man- 
ner in  which  this  question  ought  to  be 
discussed.  I  Irecly  admit  and  sincerely 
maintain  that  it  ought  not  to  bo  discussed 
otherwise  than  fis  a  great  question,  to  bo 
considered  eritiroly  on  a  largo  view  of  its 


483 


merits.  It  is  uot  a  question  of  party,  it  is 
not  a  question  of  persons,  it  is  not  a  ques- 
tion of  merely  local,  or  class,  or  passing  in- 
terest, and  it  is  not  to  be  met  by  any  of  those 
passing  appeals  which  are  too  often  resorted 
to.  It  is  not  to  be  settled  upon  any  ground 
of  mere  theory,  or  by  any  criticism  of  mere 
details.  It  requires  indeed  to  be  taken  up 
at  once  as  a  question  of  principle,  and  also 
as  a  question  of  detail,  involving  a  multi- 
tude of  details;  and  there  must  necessarily 
be  a  careful  criticism  of^such  details.  The 
question  really  presented  is  this :  on  the 
whole,  viewing  them  collectively,  are  the 
details  involved  in  this  great  scheme  such  as 
to  commend  the  scheme  itself  to  our  appro- 
bation, or  are  they  not?  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
pledge  myself  that  I  will  discuss  the  ques- 
tion from  that  point  of  view.  I  will  do  my 
utmost  to  avoid  mere  passing  or  personal 
allusions.  I  will  try  to  tread  the  dangerous 
ground  before  me  without  arousing  danger- 
ous feelings.  I  do  not  know  that  I  can  suc- 
ceed, but  at  least  I  will  make  the  effort.  This, 
however,  I  am  bound  to  repeat  at  the  outset, 
that  no  one  can  do  justice  to  a  question  like 
this,  and  start  with  the  idea  of  at  all  ignoring 
details.  Here  is  a  measure  proposed  for  our 
acceptance,  embodied  in  seventy-two  resolu- 
tions, and  which  resolu  ions  affirm  a  great 
many  more  than  seventy-two  propositions, 
connected  with  almost  every  principle  known 
to  have  reference  to  the  theory  and  practice 
of  popular  government.  I  say  it  is  a  scheme 
which  is  as  complex  and  as  vast  as  one  can 
well  imagine,  and  declamation  about  first 
principles  can  be  of  no  real  use  in  its  dis- 
cussion— can  avail  only  to  mislead  in  refer- 
ence to  it.  We  have  to  deal  with  no  mere 
abstract  question  of  a  nationality,  or  of  union 
or  disunion,  or  of  a  Federal  as  opposed  to  a 
Legislative  union.  It  is  idle  to  talk 
vaguely  about  the  maintenance  of  British 
connection,  or  to  go  into  magnificent 
speculations  about  the  probable  results  of 
independence,  or  blindly  to  urge  this 
scheme  as  a  sure  preventative  of  annex- 
ation to  the  United  States.  These  cheap 
and  easy  generalities  are  thoroughly  unreli- 
able. The  only  question  is,  how  is  this  plan, 
in  its  entirety^  going  to  work?  And  this 
question  is  one  which  is  not  easy  to  answer ; 
it  is  one  requiring  much  patience,  and  a  close 
examination  of  details.  It  is  the  question 
which,  if  tlve  House  will  lend  me  its  attention, 
I  will  endeavor  to  discuss  to  the  extent  of 
my  ability.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  may  further 


take  leave  to  say  at  starting,  that  I  do  not 
approach  this  question  from  any  new  point 
of  view  whatever.  Always  I  have  been,  and 
now  I  am,  a  unionist  in  the  strictest  and 
largest  sense  of  the  term.  I  desire  to  per- 
petuate the  union  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  I  desire  to  see  developed,  the  largest 
union  that  can  possibly  be  developed  (I  care 
not  by  what  name  you  call  it)  between  all 
the  colonies,  provinces,  and  dependencies  of 
the  British  Crown.  I  desire  to  maintain  that 
intimate  union  which  ought  to  subsist,  but 
which  unfortunately  does  not  subsist  as  it 
ought,  between  the  Imperial  Government  and 
all  those  dapendencies.  I  am  a  unionist,  who 
especially  does  not^  desire  to  see  the  provinces 
of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  disunited  I'o 
my  mind,  this  scheme  does  not  at  all  present 
itself  as  one  of  union  ;  and  if  hon.  gentle- 
men opposite  will  admit  the  truth,  they  will 
acknowledge  that,  practically,  it  amounts  to  a 
disunion  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  confess  that  I  am  irrecon- 
cileably  opposed  to  that  portion  of  the 
scheme.  I  repeat  I  do  not  care  to  see 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  more  dissevered 
than  they  are  ;  on  the  contrary,  I  wish  to 
see  them  brought  into  closer  union  ;  and 
far  from  regarding  this  scheme  as  cementing 
more  closely  the  connection  of  these  pro- 
vinces with  the  British  Empire,  I  look  upon 
it  as  tending  rather  towards  a  not  distant 
disunion  of  these  provinces  from  the 
British  Empire.  ( Hear,  hear.)  i>ly  posi- 
tion as  reo'ards  this  scheme  is  that  of  one 
who  desires  to  see  this  union  perpetuated, 
and  uot  of  one  who  would  contemplate  a 
state  of  disunion  between*  any  of  the 
compone'ot  parts  of  the  British  Empire. 
I  hold  that  proper  means  ought  to 
be  taken  to  prevent  our  disunion  from  the 
British  Empire  and  absorption  into  the 
United  States,  and  that  this  scheme  by  no 
means  tends  that  way.  I  have  no  fancy  for 
democratic  or  republican  forms  or  institu- 
tions, or  indeed  for  revolutionary  or  political 
noveities  of  any  sort.  The  phrase  of  '•  politi- 
cal creation  "  is  no  phrase  of  mine.  I  hold 
that  the  power  to  create  is  as  much  a  higher 
attribute  than  belongs  to  man,  in  the  politi- 
cal world,  as  in  any  other  department  of  the 
u'jiverse.  All  we  can  do  is  to  attend  to  and 
develope  the  ordinary  growth  of  our  institu- 
tions ;  and  this  growth,  if  it  is  to  be  healthy 
at  all,  must  be  slow.  There  must  be  the  siime 
alow,  steady  change  in  political  matters, 
'■  which  answers  to  the  growth  visible  in  the 


484 


physical  world.  I  do  believe  in  this  gradual 
development  of  our  institutions,  but  1  do 
not  believe  in  any  oftho?e  violent  and  sudden 
cbange3  which  have  for  their  object  the 
creation  of  suniething  entirely  tiew.  I  fear 
this  scheme  is  just  of  the  character  to  pre- 
vent that  slow,  gradual,  healthy  development 
which  I  would  wish  to  tee  steadily  carried 
out.  If  I  could  be  astonished  at  any- 
thing in  politics,  Mr.  Speakeu,  I  should 
be  astonished  at  the  attempt  which  has  been 
made  by  some  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  to  represent  the  state. of 
the  public  feeling  on  this  subject  as  not  having 
fh:it  mere  sudden,  sensational,  unreliable 
character  v/hich  I  have  ascribed  to  it.  Long 
forgotten  expressions  of  individual  opinion  ; 
clauses  said  to  have  formed  part  of  bills  not 
to  hi  found,  and  not  known  to  have  been 
even  drawn  ;  motions  threatened  but  never 
made,  the  small  party  fe  cings  of  past  times, 
from  before  tlie  days  of  the  Canada  Trade 
/  ct  dowtiwar'^is,  have  been  pressed  into  ser- 
vice to  meet  the  exigencies  of  a  hard  case. 
Wi'Ii,  I  sliall  not  follow  out  that  line  of 
ari:umeiit:  it  is  not  worth  while.  Wc  all 
know  that,  from  the  time  of  the  union  of 
Canada,  at  all  events,  until  very  lately  in- 
deed, nothing  like  serious  discussion  ot  the 
)  ropriety  or  impropriety  of  a  Federal  union, 
or  ot  any  union  at  all,  of  (he  aggregate  of 
these  British  American  Provinces,  has  ever 
so  little  occupied  the  public  mind.  I  will 
hero  go  back  merely  to  1858,  when  the 
sixth  Parliament  was  elect:d,  and  from  that 
time  bring  under  review,  as  rapidly  as  I  can, 
such  few  poiyts  of  our  political  history  as 
are  relevant  to  shew  that  this  is  the  fact; 
although,  indeed,  argument  to  establish  it  is 
scarcely  necessary.  At  the  election  of  1857- 
'58,  what  really  were  the  issues  before  the 
country  y  They  can  be  easily  stated.  I 
take  the  r6sam6,  in  iact,  from  the  an- 
nouncements of  the  Globe,  the  organ  of 
the  great  popular  party  of  Upper  Canada 
at  that  time  ;  mentioning  not  every- 
thing, but  fcviiyihing  at  ail  material.  The 
great  ilemand  of  the  then  Uiiper  Cau-.ida 
Opposition,  which  gave  the  key-note  to  the 
whole  political  controvernies  of  the  time, 
was  representation  according  to  population, 
irrespectively  of  the  dividing  lino  between 
Upper  and  Lower  (Canada.  That  was  urged 
as  involving  everything.  It  wa.s  urged  lor 
the  sake  of  all  the  rest,  and  as  sure  to  bring 
about  all  the  rest,  that  wa.i  demanded  by  the 
party.     It  was  to  enable  them  to   carry  out 


their  opposition  to  what  were  called  sectarian 
grants,   their    opposiiion   to  the    holding  of 
land  in  mortmain    for  sectarian    uses,  their 
opposition  to  separate  schools  on  a  sectarian 
basis.     It  W.TS  urged  lor  the  avowed  purpose 
ot  obtaining  uniform  legislation  in  the  iuturc 
for  the  two   sections  of  the  province,  and 
also  what  was  spoken  of  as  the  assimilatioD 
of   the    existing    institutions    of     the    two 
sections   of  the   province,   but    which  was 
meant    to  be    an  assimilation   of    those    of 
Lower   Canada   to    those   of  Upper  Canada 
much  more  than  of  those  of  Upper  Canada 
to  those  of  Lower  Canada.     (Hear,  hear.) 
It   was  urged  with  the  view   of  obtaining 
what  was  called  free-trade,  that  is,  an  anti- 
Lower  Canadian  commercial  policy.     It  was 
urged  with  the  view  of  obtaining  the  settle- 
ment  of   the  North-West ;  in  other  words, 
the  relative  aggrandizement  of  Upper  Cana- 
da.    It  was  urged,  also,  no   doubt,  with  the 
view  of  obtaining  what  was  called  adminis- 
trative reform — the  driving  from   power  of 
a  set  of  men  who  wore  alleged,  for  various 
reasons,  to  be  unworthy  of  holding  it.     But 
the  great  questions  of  measures  above  alluded 
to   came   first ;  those   as  to   the  mere  men, 
second.     (Hear,  hear.)     The  grand   object 
was   declared    to    be     to   obtain    an    Upper 
Canadian    preponderance    of   representation 
on  the  floor  of  this  House,  iu  order  to  put  an 
end   to  everything  like  sectarian  grants,  the 
holding  of  lauds  iu  mortmain   and   separate 
schools,  to  render  uniform  our  legislation,  to 
assimilate  our  institutions,  to  carry  outau  anti- 
Lower  Canadian  commercial  policy,  and  to 
secure  the   North-West  for  the  aggrandize- 
ment  of  Upper  Canada.      In  this  way  the 
question   of   Upper   Canada   against  Lower 
Canada    was   unmistakably    raised.       What 
must  have  been,  what  could  not  fail  to  be, 
the  result  of  an  appeal   of  that  kind  ?     It 
was    ea.sy    to   foresee    that   there   would   be 
returned    in   Upper    Canada  a   majority    in 
favor   of    these     demands,    and    iu    Lower 
Canada   an   ovcrwiiclming   majority  against 
them.       I    do   not  go  into  this  to  raise  the 
ghost    of    past    animosi(ies;    I    am    merely 
showing    \v4i  ic  cannot    be    denied — that    no 
one  at  that    tia)e  spoke  of  or  cared  for  this 
magniQeent     idea    ol     the    union     of     the 
provinces,   by    Confederation    or  otherwise. 
(Hear,    hear.)       The    session    commenced. 
Those  who  had   the  advantage  or  disadvan- 
tage ol'  flitting  in  that  I'arliamcnt  that  session 
will  remember  the  tn mendous  eontrxst  there 
was  between  all  those  debates  which  had  refer- 


485 


euce  to  this  class  of  subjects,  and  the  one  single 
debate  which  was  attempted,  but  could  not 
be  made  to  take  place,  on  the  question  of  the 
Confederation  of  the  Provinces.     With  all 
his  ability — and  there  are  few  abler  men  than 
the  hon.  gentleman  who  undertook  at  that 
time  to  bring  that  question  before  the  House — 
with   all  his  ability,  and  the  most  earnest 
effort  on  his  part  to  press  it  on  the  attention 
of  the   House,  lie  could  scarcely  obtain    a 
hearing.     No  one  cared  for  the  matter  ;  and 
it  was  felt  by  every  one  that  such  was  the 
case.     8oou  after,  a  ministerial  crisis  took 
place.     A  new  government  came  in  for  a  few 
hours,  and  started  a  policy.     But  that  policy, 
agaiu,  was  not  this  policy.     It  did  not  touch 
this    question.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  was  pro- 
posed, indeed,  to  deal  Mith  that  question  of 
representation    by    population    by    applying 
some  system  of  checks  or  guarantees,  doing 
or  trying  to  do  something  that  might  lessen 
the  objection  of  Lower  Canada  to  a  change 
urged  forward  as  that  had  been.     But  that 
was  all.    That  government  fell — fell  instant- 
ly—  and   another  was  formed   in    its  place. 
And  tiie  present  Finance  Minister,  the  hon- 
orable member  for   Sherbrooke,  who,  with 
all  liis  ability,  had  not  been  able  to  obtain  a 
serious  hearing  for  his  proposal  of  Confeder- 
ation of  the  provinces,  going  into  the  new 
government,  induced   his  colleagues  to  come 
before  the  House  and  the  country,  with  that 
as  a  professed   portion  of  their   policy.     I 
may  be  pardoned,  perhaps,  for  a  single  word 
here   of  personal   reference,   for  saying,  en 
passant,    that     when    that    idea    was    thus 
broached  (as  it  was    by  a  Government  of 
which  I  was  as  firm  a  supporter  as  aoy  man 
in   the   House),  I  did  not  fail   to   make  it 
kuown,  tbat  if  ever  it  should  be  presented 
to  the  House  as  a  practical  measure  by  that 
Government,  I  should  cease  to  be  (so  far  as 
it  was  concerned)  one  of  such  supporters. 
(Hear,  hear.)     That  was  not  the  first  time  I 
had  thought  of  it.     It  had  long  before  been 
a   matter   of  study   with   me;    and   all   the 
anxious  reflection  1  have  ever  been  able  to 
give  it,  has  only  had  the  result  of  strength- 
ening my  convictions   iigainst  i*  every  day. 
But  how    was  this  idea  then  brought  for- 
ward ?    Tentatively,  and  just  to  neutralize 
the  scheme  which  the  Brown-Dorion  Ad- 
ministration   had    hinted    to    the    country. 
The  one  fire  was  to  burn  out  another's  burn- 
ing.      (Hear,    hear.)       The    plan    of    that 
Government  was    to    make    propositions    to 
the  Imperial  Goveriiment   and  to  the  gov- 


ernments  of  the    Lower   Provinces.      But 
how  ?     If  you  want  to  gain  an  object,  you 
put  that  object  before  those  to  whom  you 
propose  it  in  the  way  most  likely  to  induce 
them  to  say  yes.     This  scheme  was  suggest- 
ed to  the  Imperial  Government,  and  to  the 
people  and  governments  of  the  Lower  Prov- 
inces, precisely  in  the  way  most  cal-culated 
to   induce  them  to  say  no.     We  went  and 
told   them,    "  We   are   in    such    a   state    of 
embarrassment,  we  have  political  questions 
which   so   trouble   and  bother    us,  that  we 
do  not  know   if  we  can   get  along   at   all, 
unless  you  will  ba  so  kind  as  to  come  into 
this    union    with    u?."     (Hear,    hear.)     It 
was  just  as  though  I  were  in  business,  and 
went    round    to    half   a   dozen    capitalists, 
telling  them,  -'I    have   got  into  debt;   my 
business   is   gone    to   the  dogs;  I  have  no 
business    capacity ;   help   me  by  going   into 
partnership    with    me,    or    I    am    ruined." 
(Hear,  hear)     If  the  object  had   been   not 
to  carry  it,  it  does  appear  to  me  that  those 
gentlemen  could    not    have    taken  a  better 
method  of  accomplishing  that  object.     And 
we  saw  this — that   just  so  soon  as  it  was 
found  that  the  Lower  Provinces  did  not,  as 
under  the  circumstances  they  could  not,  say 
yes  to  a  proposal  of  this  kind,  and  that  the 
Imperial  Government   let  the  matter  drop, 
our    Administration    let  it    drop    too.     We 
never  heard  another    word  about    it      The 
despatches     were    laid    on     our     table    in 
1859,  but  nobody  asked  a    question  about 
them.     The    child    was    still-born,    and  no 
one    troubled    himself  about    its    want    of 
baptism.     We  went  on   with  our  old  ques- 
tions— representation  by  population  ;  Upper 
Canada  against  Lower  Canada  ;  measures,  to 
a  great  extent  ;  men    also,  to  a  great  and 
increasing  extent.     And  wo  quarrelled  and 
fought  about  almost  everything,  but  did  not 
waste  a  thought  or  word  upon  this  gigantic 
question  of  the  Confederation  of  these  pro- 
vinces.    (Hear,  hear.)     In  a  little  while  we 
drifted   into  another  crisis — that  of  1862. 
And  from  the  time  of  that  crisis,  and  the 
formation    of     the     Macdonald-Sicotte 
Administration,  down  to  the  time  when  the 
present   Administration  was,    last   summer, 
brought    into    its    present    shape,   the    one 
prominent    demand     made    upon    political 
parties  and  political  men    everywhere  was, 
to  set  aside  the  older  questions  of  mea.sures, 
and  occupy  ourselves   very  much  more — not 
to  say    exclusively — with    the    question   of 
men.      (Hear,   hear.)      I   am  not   blaming 


486 


honorable  gentlemen;    I  am  not  raising  the 
question     whether     they     were     right    or 
wrong  in    taking    that    course.     They  may 
have    been    the    purest    patriots,   the   most 
farsecing  statesmen  the  world    has  known, 
for  ought  I    care.      What  I  say  is  merely 
this,  that  whether  for  good  or  evil,  whether 
wisely   or    unwisely,    the    fact  is,    that  the 
public  mind  was   not  occupied  in  the    least 
with    this  Confederation    question.       After 
having  fought   a  long  time,    mainly  about 
measures,    and    secondarily  about   men,  we 
were  all  suddenly  called   upon,  in  1862,  to 
consider  nothing  but  the  question  of  the  men 
who  were  to   do  everything  right,  and    to 
settle  everything  foirly  and  honestly,  and  eo 
forth.  Representation  by  population  was  un- 
mistakably, for  a  time  at  least,  laid  upon  the 
shelf,  declared  to  be  secondary,  almost  unim- 
portant.     It  had  been    half  shelved  some 
time    before ;  then,  it  was  wholly  shelved. 
It  was  hardly  taken  down  from  the  shelf  in 
1863,  when  the  Macdona.ld-Dorion  Gov- 
ernment merely  put  it  back   to   the   same 
place,  which   it  had    long   occupied    to    no 
purpose    of    a    practical    character    under 
the  CARTiEa-MACDONALT)    Administration. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Such,  then,  was  the  state  of 
affairs — nobody    thinking    or    caring  about 
this    great    question,  until   last    Session    of 
Parliament,   wlien    the    hon.    member    for 
South  Oxford,  the  present  President  of  the 
Council,  moved  for  and  obtained  a  commit- 
tee on  the  subject  of  constitutional  changes 
generally.      Certainly  that  bon.  gentleman 
did  a  very  clever  thing,  in  embodying  in  his 
motion  extracts  from  the  unfortunate  defunct 
dispatch  of   Messrs.   C artier,  Galt   and 
Ross. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  was 
a  fortunate  despatch — unfortunate  for  you, 
but  fortunate  for  us. 

xMr.  OUNKIN — It  is  an  old  proverb  that 
Bays  "  He  laughs  well  who  lauu;hs  last." 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  ex- 
pcct  to  laugh  the  last. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— No  doubt.  Rut  I  do 
not  care  to  joke  in  a  matter  which  I  Ihink 
of  a  very  serious  character;  and,  seriously 
speaking,  I  think  the  hon.  gentleman  is  very 
wrong.  We  have  yet  to  see,  in  the  first 
place,  whether  the  thing  is  done,  and  then, 
if  it  is  done,  whether  it  succeeds 

Hun.  Mr.  McGEK— "  If  Hworo  done, 
'twere  well  'twere  done  quickly." 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  iMinister  of  Agri- 
culture is  too  good  a  Shakspeuriiin  to  need  to 


be  reminded  that  the  thing  t)  be  done  in  that 
case  was  a  something  very  bad.     The  hon. 
gentleman  is  welcome  to  all  he  can  make  of 
his  quotation, — "  If  'twere  done  when  'tis 
done,  then  'twere  well  it  were  done  quickly." 
To  return,  however.     It  was  clever,  undoubt- 
edly clever,  in  the  hon.  member  for  South 
Oxford  to 'quote  from  the  despatch  of  these 
hon.  gentlemen — then,  by  the  way,  in  oppo- 
sition to  the  thou  Government  and  to  himself 
— an  expression  of  opinion  almost  coinciding 
with  his  own.     He   carried  his   committee. 
No  one  made  any  great  objection  to   it.     I 
have  been  told  that  I  am  guilty  of  some  sorl 
of  inconsistency,  after  having  voted  for  that 
committee,  in    now  opposing   this  measure. 
The  g^quitur  is  hard  to  see.     1  did  certainly 
speak  and   vote  for  it,  but  on   the  express 
i^rouud  that  I  believed  it  would  do  no  sort  of 
harm,  and  that,  on   the   contrary,  it   might 
have  the  good  effect  of  leading  other  hon. 
gentlemen   t(»  the  sober  conclusion  at  which 
I  had  long  before  arrived  myself     I  there- 
fore had  no  objection  to  the  committee,  and 
I  sat  on  it.     I  am  not  going  to  reveal  what 
have  been  called  the  secrets  of  the  commit- 
tee.    As  in  many  other  like  cases,  there  was 
mighty  little  in  them.     Owing  to  accidents, 
wholly  asidj  from  tliis  question  of  Confeder- 
ation, the  report  of  the  committee  was  pre- 
sented on  the  very  night  that  vote  happened 
to  be  given,  indirectly  adverse  to  the  Taciie- 
Macdonald    Administration.     The    report 
itself  was  an  accident.     Ail  the  allusion  there 
was  in  it  to  Federation  of  any  sort,  found  its 
way  there  at  the  last  moment  and  unexpect- 
edly.    It  is  no  violation  ot  confidence  to  say 
that  it  was  even  voted  against  by  the  leader 
of  this   House,   the    Attoraoy    General    for 
Upper  Canada,  the  now  leading  advocate  of 
the  present  scheme.     That  fact  is  on  the 
printed  record.     It  was  voted  a::ainst,  also, 
by  the  members  for  Cornwall  and  West  El- 
gin.    There   were   five    other    members,   of 
whom  I  am  .sorry  I  was  one,  who  were  absent; 
had    I  been   there,  unquestionably  my   vote 
would  have  been  against  it.     (Hear,  lieiir.) 
And,  Mr.  Speaker,  those  who  were  in  this 
House  at  the  time  tliat  report  was  made,  will 
remember  pretty   well    the   'noro  than  cool 
indillcrcnco  with  which  it  was  here  received, 
little  or  nothing,  after  all,  as  it  amounted  to. 
Well,  this  vote  in  the  House  thus  ("ollowing, 
the  opportunity  suddenly  offered  'o  honornblc 
gentlemen   opposite    ot    starting   on  a  tack 
which,  up  to  that  moment,  I  believe  no   two 
men  in  the  House  had   ever  thouirht   of  ns 


487 


possible.  And  from  that  day  to  this,  a 
series  of  accideats,  each  one  more  extraordi- 
nary than  its  predecessor,  has  led  to  a  state 
of  things  about  as  extraordinary  as  the  acci- 
dents themselves  were,     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  ia  said 
the  world  was  made  by  a  series  of  accidents. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — I  dare  say  some  people 
think  so  ;  and  it  may  be  so  according  to  the 
theology  of  my  hon.  friend,  but  not  according 
to  mine.  I  repeat,  what  has  happened  since 
has  been  tolerably  unexpected,  even  by  the 
actors  in  those  occurrences.  I  do  not  believe 
they  were  expected  by  anybody;  and  none, 
I  fancy,  have  been  moie  surprised  at  them 
thau  the  very  men  who  now  take  all  the 
advantage  possible  of  them,  and  even  the 
credit  of  having  brought  thera  about.  And 
how,  Mr.  Speaker,  was  this  scheme  pre- 
sented to  the  public  ?  Piecemeal,  and  with 
reticences  innumerable  ;  in  a  way  that  made 
it  hardly  possible  to  criticise  it  in  any  of  its 
parts.  When,  after  several  members  of  the 
Government  of  this  province  and  several  other 
members  of  the  Conference  had  gone  into 
long  explanations  of  it  publicly  as  Quebec, 
Montreal  and  Toronto,  the  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  came  out  with  a  criticism 
upon  and  a  dissent  iroui  it.  He  was  set 
upon  with  a  clamor,  to  -the  effect  that  he 
ought  not  to  have  pronounced  himself  so 
soon,  as  the  whole  scheme  was  not  yet  de- 
veloped !  It  was  said  he  had  m  srepresented 
the  scheme,  and  ought  to  have  waited  until  its 
details  were  really  known  before  attacking  it. 
Brought  thus  before  the  country,  in  piece- 
meal style,  with  some  portions  kept  back, 
and  others  ambiguously  and  even  contradic- 
torily stated,  no  one  could  seriously  take  hold 
of  it.  After  some  time,  it  is  true,  a  printed 
paper,  purporting  to  set  forth  the  resolutions 
of  the  Conference,  was  sent  round  to  mem- 
bers, but  with  the  word  "  Private  "  written 
on  it,  as  much  as  to  say  that  it  was  not  offici- 
ally communicated,  and  must  be  made  no 
public  use  of.  That  that  private  communi- 
cation was  not  even  perfectly  accurate,  is 
now  perfectly  well  known  ;  but  that  was  of 
little  consequence,  as  it  could  not  be  made 
use  of  publicly.  Such  is  the  way  in  which 
this  matter  was  laid  before  the  people.  Every 
possible  advantage  was  given  to  the  people 
to  praise  it  from  every  point  of  view,  and 
nobody  got  a  lair  opportunity  of  saying  that 
he  did  not  like  it.  The  praise  was  carefully 
prepared  and  published,  and  everything  that 
could  possibly  be  done  to  prepare  the  public 
mind  for  the  scheme  before  it  final  announce- 


ment was  skilfully  done.  And  now  what 
have  we  ?  Why,  the  cry  that  the  whole 
thing  must  be  passed,  "  now  or  never."  It 
will  never  pass,  we  are  told,  if  it  does  not 
pass  now  !  (Hear,  hear.)  Was  there  ever 
a  measure  of  this  magnitude  before,  on  which 
the  heart  of  a  country  was  set,  the  whole  of 
which  was  so  wise  and  good  as  this  scheme 
is  said  to  be — and  yet,  that  had  to  be  passed 
(the  whole  of  it)  at  once,  or  never?  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  are  even  told  that  it  is  a  positive 
treaty —  made  however,  by  the  way,-  by 
parties  who  were  never  authorized  to  make 
any  treaty  at  all.  I  must  say,  for  one,  that 
I  cannot  but  see  in  all  this  precipitancy 
the  unmislakeable  admission  de  facto,  that 
the  Government  themselves  know  and  feel 
that  tbe  feeling  they  have  got  up  in  favor  of 
this  scheme  is  a  passing  feeling  of  momentary 
duration,  that  they  cannot  themselves  in  the 
least  rely  upon.  (Hear,hear.)  Mr.  Speaker, 
it  is  rather  curious  that  hon.  gentlemen,  in 
recommending  this  scheme  of  theirs,  seem 
never  to  be  tired  of  speaking  of  its  ex- 
cellencies in  general,  and  of  modestly 
eulogizing  the  wisdom,  and  foresight, 
and  statesmanship  of  those  who  got  it  up. 
I  cannot  wonder  that  their  judgment  in  this 
behalf  should  be  a  little  led  astray  by  their 
surprise  at  the  success  which  has  so  far 
attended  their  project.  Their  "  officious"  visit 
to  Prince  Edward  Island  took  but  a  very 
few  days,  and  it  resulted  in  the  scheme  of 
a  legislative  union  for  the  Lower  Provinces 
being  (as  I  think,  unfortunately)  laid  aside; 
and  then  followed  the  Confeienceat  Quebec, 
where  these  twelve  honorable  gentlemen 
representing  Canada,  and  twenty-one  other 
gentlemen  representing  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, sat  together  for  the  long  period  of 
nineteen  days — seventeen  working  days  and 
two  Sundays — and  as  the  result  of  these 
seventeen  days  of  but  partial  work  by  the 
way,  we  have  from  these  thirty-three  gentle- 
men a  scheme  of  a  Constitution  wliich  they 
vaunt  of  as  being  altogether  better  than  that 
of  the  model  republic  of  the  United  States, 
and  even  than  that  of  the  model  kingdom  of 
Great  Britain.  Neither  the  model  republic  nor 
yet  the  model  kingdom  of  whose  glorious  tra- 
ditions and  associations  we  are  all  so  proud,  is 
for  a  moment  to  be  compared  with  this  work 
of  theirs.  (Hear,  hear.)  So  perfect  do 
they  seem  to  regard  their  pet  measure,  that 
they  tell  us  we  must  not  take  time  to  discuss 
it.  Even  though  Her  Majesty's  Secretary 
of  State  has  told  us  that  there  are  features 
of  it  that  require  further  consideration  and 


488 


must  be  revised,  yet  they  tell  us  that  we 
must  not  change  a  letter  or  line  of  it.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  yet,  we  are  at  the  same  time 
told  that  the  details  of  this  scheme,  if 
examined  at  all,  must  be  examined  and 
viewed  as  those  of  a  compromise.  It  is  not, 
they  freely  admit,  as  satisfactory  in  its  de- 
tails as  any  of  us  would  desire  to  have ;  but 
it  is  all  we  can  get,  and  must  be  accepted  or 
rejected  as  a  whole.  It  must  be  examined 
in  the  very  spirit  of  compropiise,  meaning 
that  no  serious  fault  shall  bo  found  with  it, 
however  unsatisfactory  it  may  be  I  have 
heard  of  Paddy's  notion  of  a  reciprocity 
that  was  all  on  one  side. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — Now  let  us  have  no 
national  reflections.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Oh!  I  mean  it  as  a 
national  compliment.  I  would,  however, 
ask  hon.  gentlemen  opposite  noc  to  throw 
across  the  House  these  jokes ;  not  that  I 
object  to  an  occasional  interruption  by  way 
of  question,  but  mere  jokes  thrown  into  the 
discussion  of  a  serious  subject  do  not  help 
any  man  who  desires  to  present  his  honest, 
sincere  and  serious  views  on  a  grave  ques- 
tion. I  must  ask  the  two  hon.  members  of 
the  Government,  who  have  several  times,  by 
means  of  interruptions  of  that  nature,  tried 
to  throw  me  off  the  track,  to  desist  from 
such  course  in  future, 

Hon.  Atty.Gen.  CARTIER— lamsure 
the  hon. gentleman  did  not  intend  t) discon- 
cert you,  nor  had  I  any  suchpurpcisc  iti  view. 

Mr.  DUNiCIN— I  will  not  say  it  is  done 
for  that  purpose;  but  I  feel  myself  more 
than  usually  annoyed  with  interruptions  to- 
night, because  the  subject  is  of  a  nature  to 
requi.e  the  closest  attention.  Tliisnie.isure, 
then,  it  is  said,  must  be  examined  io  this 
spirit  of  compromise,  that  is  to  sav,  not 
objecting  to  any  of  it.s  provisions.  One  of 
the  expressions  used  by  the  hon.  gentleman 
was —  that  we  should  nut  require  in  the 
scheme  "  an  impossible  perfection."  Well, 
sir,  I  do  not  think  there  is  any  danger  of 
our  liiiding  any  impossible  perfection  in  it, 
or  anytliing  relating  to  it,  unless,  indceil,  in 
one  particular  direction ;  and  in  that  direc- 
tion I  do  not  know  but  that  there  has  been 
attained  all  possible  perfection  at  least,  if 
not  an  impossible  perfection.  I  allude  to 
that  particular  kind  of  wisdiwnand  ioresight 
which  marks  the  astute  ollicial  politician,  as 
contradistin^ruished  from  the  fur-seeinjr 
statesman,  (Hear,  hear,)  Tiiero  has  been 
exhibited,  in  this  one  respect,  an  all  but 
imposfiiblo  perfection.     ]']very  feeling,  every 


interest,  every  class,  is  bid  for  in  the  cleverest 
way  imaginable.  The  scat  of  the  Federal 
Government  is  to  be  at  Ottawa,  of  course. 
The  Governor  General  or  other  head  of  this 
magnificent  future  vice-royalty,  or  what  not, 
will  hold  his  court  and  parliament  ut  Ottawa; 
but  a  handsome  sop  is  thrown  to  Quebec  and 
Toronto,  also.  They,  too,  are  each  to  have 
a  provincial  court  and  legislature  and  go- 
vernmental departments.  Everything  for 
everybody  I  As  to  th^  state  that  is  to  be 
created,  its  style  and  rank  are  left  in  most 
delightt'ul  ambiguity.  We  may  be  honored 
with  the  dignity  of  a  kingdom,  or  of  a  vice- 
royalty,  or  of  we  know  not  what.  All  we 
are  assured  of  is,  that  it  is  to  be  a  something 
better,  higher  and  more  grand  than  we  now 
have.  Perhaps  the  Sovereign  herself  will 
occasionally  come  over  and  exercise  her 
authority  in  person  ;  or,  perhaps,  a  throne 
will  be  created  for  some  member  of  the  royal 
family ;  or,  failing  such  dreams  as  these, 
we  are  told,  at  the  least,  in  reference  to  the 
character  of  the  representative  who  is  to 
be  sent  here  in  place  of  the  Sovereign— that 
is  to  say.  the  representative  who  is  to  ad- 
minister the  government  during  the  ordi- 
nary absence  of  the  Sovereign  from  this 
part  of  the  British  dominions  —  we  are  told, 
I  say,  by  the  Icider  of  this  House,  that,  in 
view  of  the  functions  to  be  entrusted  to 
hin),  the  high  position  he  in  to  hold,  the 
vice-regal  state  he  will  have  to  keep,  it  is 
possible  we  shall,  at  least,  have  sent  out  here 
in  that  capacity,  hereafter,  men  of  the  cla-S-s 
emphatically  called  statesmen.  I  have  no  taste 
for  paying  what  m:ty  be  termed  coiulier  com- 
pliments to  the  living;  but,  looking  back  only 
to  the  dead,  of  whom  one  may  sneak  freely, 
without  such  fear,  I  must  say  that  tho-^e 
who  have  been  appointed  to  administer  our 
government  in  the  past  are  hardly  of  thu 
class  to  be  lookel  down  upon — that  the  lit 
in  which  we  find  the  names  of  DuuiiA.M, 
Sydenham,  Metc.\lfe,  and  Elgin,  is  not 
preci.-icly  a  list  of  men  inferior  to  the  higher 
class  of  those  whom  we  call  statesmen;  and 
I  am  not  quite  sure  that  even  after  this  groat 
Confederacy  shall  have  boon  established, 
men  of  much  higher  mark  than  those  we 
have  already  had  will  be  appointed  to  rule 
over  it.  lie  that  as  it  may,  however,  the 
bait  is  thrown  out  tint  we  are  to  have  men 
much  higher  than  wo  over  had  belorc;  that 
ia  all  manner  of  ways  our  state  is  to  bo 
better,  finer,  grander,  in  fact,  than  our  ima- 
gination can  well  conceive.  (liniighter,) 
Wo  are,  it  seoms,  among  other  things,  to 


489 


get  a  little  more  than  we  now  have  of  what 
is  called  a  feature  of  the  Bvitish  Constitu- 
tion, in  the  composition  of  the  Legislative 
Council.  It  has  been  spoken  of  as  an  im- 
propriety, almost  treasonable,  to  hint  at  it  as 
a  bait  thrown  out  to  gentlemen  who  have 
been  elected  to  the  Legislative  Council  for 
a  fixed  period,  that  by  voting  for  this 
scheme  they  may  get  themselves  made  le- 
gislative councillors  for  life.  If  in  this 
scheme  provision  had  been  made,  in  regard 
to  the  members  of  this  branch  of  the  Legis- 
lature, that  they  should  hold  their  seats,  not 
for  lite,  but  say,  for  a  mere  period  of  five 
years,  I  rather  think  there  would  be  tew 
found  here  very  mealy-mouthed  on  the  sub- 
ject; and  when  it  is  ofi"ered  to  men  who, 
like  ourselves,  will  have  to  go  before  their 
constituents  within  a  few  months,  or  years, 
at  most,  that  they  are  to  be  made  legishtive 
councillors  for  life,  the  bait,  I  think,  is  not 
a  very  small  one.  (Hear,  hear.)  AVe  are  told, 
too,  on  the  face  of  this  scheme,  that  the 
choice  is  to  be  made  by  the  present  govern- 
ments of  the  several  provinces;  but  of  course 
with  perfect  fairness  to  the  Opposition  in 
each  province!  JNiost  satisfactory !  Each  Op- 
position is  to  be  treated  with  perfect  fairness 
— "  it  is  so  nominated  in  the  bond."  We  hear 
of  a  minister  of  the  Crown  in  one  place,  ad- 
dressing his  neighbors,  and  telling  them  they 
may  depend  on  it,  that  when  Iler  Majesty 
comes  to  make  the  selection,  the  utmost  res- 
pect will  be  paid  to  the  rights  and  privileges 
of  tlie  elected  members,  so  that  their  elected 
member  will  have  the  fairest  chance  of  be- 
coming a  life  member  of  the  Confederate 
Legislative  Council  In  another  place,  on 
the  other  hand,  we  hear  from  another  minis- 
ter of  the  Crown  that  those  gentlemen  who 
hold  patents  of  appointment  for  life  may  feel 
quite  as  safe,  for  certainly  their  claim  to  be 
retained  in  their  present  position  is  sure  to 
have  full  weight.  Further,  in  Lower  Canada, 
each  locality  is  told  that  it  may  rest  satisfied 
it  will  not  be  overlooked,  for  each  is  to  be 
represented  in  the  Legislative  Council  by  a 
gentleman  residing  or  holding  property  in 
it;  and  both  origins  and  both  creeds  alike 
are  thus  to  have  representation  and  full  pro- 
tection. Another  point  upon  which  there 
has  been  a  like  pleasant  sort  of  ambiguity 
kept  up,  is  as  to  who  are  to  make  the  future 
nominations  to  this  Legislative  Council. 
Viewing  this  part  of  the  scheme  as  a  matter  of 
principle,  one  would  have  thought  that  these 
future  nominations  must  be  made  on  the 
63 


Federal  principle.  It  was  not  expressly  so 
stated ;  it  is  not  (as  we  are  at  last  here 
told)  it  is  not  so  meant ;  but  till  we 
were  so  told,  everybody  who  thought  one 
way  said  that  the  resolutions  meant  it 
to  be  that  way,  and  all  who  thought  the 
other  way  conveniently  found  the  resolutions 
to  justify  their  way  of  thinking.  Well, 
turning  then  to  matters  which  afi'ect  this 
House,-  the  same  sort  of  thing  is  still  observ- 
able. Representation  by  population  is 
given  to  meet  the  grand  demand  of  Upfer 
Canada ;  but  the  people  of  Lower  Canada 
are  assured,  in  the  same  breath,  that  it  will 
not  hurt  them ;  that  their  institutions  and 
privileges  are  made  perfectly  safe  ;  that  they 
will  even  have  as  many  members  in  the 
Lower  House  as  before,  and  that  they  will, 
in  a  variety  of  ways,  be  really  better  oif 
than  ever.  A  delightful  ambiguity  is  found, 
too,  upon  the  point  as  to  who  will  make  the 
future  apportionments  of  the  constituencies. 
The  leader  of  the  Grovernment,in  explaining 
the  scheme  the  other  night,  admitted  that 
the  decennial  revisions  of  our  representation 
districts  are  really  not  to  be  left  to  the  local 
legislatures,  but  are  to  be  dealt  with  alto- 
gether by  the  Federal  Legislature.  Till 
then  most  people,  1  believe,  hud  held  the 
contrary;  but  ail  had  admitted  the  text  of 
the  resolutions  to  be  equivocal,  and  each 
party  had  of  course  interpreted  them  as  it 
wished.  The  postponement  of  the  local 
constitutions  is  of  the  same  cnaracter. 
Everyone  is  given  to  understand  that  the 
thing  will  be  made  to  work  to  the  satis- 
faction of  all ;  each  is  promised  that  he 
shall  have  it  as  he  wants.  Those  who 
hold  to  the  principle  of  responsible  govern- 
ment, as  commonly  understood,  in  the  local 
administrations  are,  of  course,  told  to 
expect  a  lieutenant-governor,  with  a  cabinet, 
anJ,  presumably,  two  branches  of  a  local 
legislature.  Those  who  would  have  two 
legisiaiive  bodies,  without  a  responsible 
ministry,  are  told  that  very  well  it  may  be 
so.  Whoever  preft-rs  one  legislative  body, 
hears  that  it  Is  beyond  a  doubt  there  very 
well  may  only  be  one;  aid  those  again  who, 
even  with  one  House,  do  not  wish  to  see 
responsible  government  in  the  provinces,  are 
assured  that  the  machinery  is  liktly  to  be 
very  simple  ;  that  each  province  will  proba- 
bly have  a  lieutenant-governor,  with  a  few 
heads  of  needed  departments,  and  one  House, 
and  that  so,  no  doubt,  the  aB'airs  of  tach  pro- 
vince can  be  managed  most  economically  and 


490 


to  the  entire  satisfaction  of  all.  The  appoint- 
ment of  lieutenant-governors  is  again  a  bait, 
and  perhaps  not  a  small  one  for  more  than 
a  few  of  our  public  men.  The  power  of 
disallowance  of  local  bills,  and  also  that  of 
reserving  them  for  the  sanction  of  the  Gen- 
eral Government,  are  on  the  one  hand 
represented  as  realities — powers  that  will 
really  be  exercised  by  the  General  Govern- 
ment to  restrain  improper  local  legislation — 
to  make  everything  sai'c  for  those  who  want 
a  Legislative  rather  than  a  Federal  union ; 
but  on  the  other  hand,  to  those  who  do  not 
want  a  legislative  union,  it  is  represented 
that  they  mean  nothing  at  all,  and  will  never 
be  exercised.  (Hear,  hear.)  Uniformity 
of  laws  again  is  to  be  given  to  all  the  pro- 
vinces, if  they  desire  it,  except  Lower  Ca- 
nada; but  by  a  peculiar  provision  of  the 
Constitution,  although  nothing  can  be  done 
by  the  General  Parliament  to  render  the 
laws  uniform,  without  the  consent  of  the 
provinces  concerned,  it  is  stipulated  that  it 
shall  be  impossible  for  Lower  Canada,  even 
though  she  should  desire  it,  to  have  her  laws 
uniform  with  those  of  the  other  provinces. 
So,  too,  with  regard  to  education  in  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada ;  the  provision  is  to  be 
made,  no  one  knows  how,  for  everybody,  aud 
all  are  guaranteed  f:ome  sort  of  satisfaction. 
It  is  true  we  are  not  told  what  the  promised 
measures  on  this  head  are  to  be ;  whether 
they  really  will  give  increased  facilities  to 
the  minorities  in  the  two  sections  for  the 
education  of  their  youth  in  their  own  way 
or  not;  but  we  are  to  take  the  promise  as 
all  right,  and  everybody  is  required  to  be 
content.  Turning  to  the  financial  features 
of  the  scheme,  we  find  it  roundly  stated  that 
all  the  debts  and  liabilities  of  each  province 
are  to  be  assumed  by  the  General  Govern- 
ment; but  if  we  look  again  into  details  we 
find  that — no,  they  are  not.  There  is  a 
'something  here,  too,  beyond  what  appears 
on  tlic  face  of  things.  Upper  and  Jjower 
Canada  arc  each  to  stay  burthened  with  some 
unstated  parts  of  the  debt  of  Canada,  and  the 
other  provinces  arc  to  have  honuscaof  unstated 
and  variant  amounts,  not  easy  to  be  come  at. 
The  financial  portion  of  the  scheme,  equally 
with  every  other,  is  presented  to  everybody 
in  whatever  light  he  would  like  to  view  it  in. 
It  will  surely  bring  about  economy,  because 
the  local  governments  will  have  so  little  to 
expend  unless  they  resort  to  direct  taxation; 
but  yet,  on  the  other  hand,  it  is  as  surely  to 
carry  us  through  all  sorts  of  wild  expendi- 
ture— to  give  us  new  and  exhaustless  credit 


in  England — to  make  possible  vast  defensive 
works  throughout  the  country — to  construct 
the  Intercolonial  liailway — to  enlarge  our 
canals  westward — to  create  no  one  knows 
how  vast  a  scheme  of  communication  with 
the  far  North-West.  Literally,  it  sounds  at 
every  turn  as  a  promise  of  everything  for 
everybody;  and  yet,  when  each  comes  to  ask 
how  much  it  promises,  and  how,  and  where, 
and  when,  the  whole  is  to  be  found  ambigu- 
ous, unsubstantial  and  unreal.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  repeat,  there  is  everywhere  throughout  this 
scheme  a  most  amazing  amount  of  that  sort 
of  cleverness  which  may  characterize  the 
astute  politician,  but  which,  I  think,  I  shall 
be  able  to  show  is  yet  far  from  being  the  wis- 
dom and  foresight  characteristic  of  the  far- 
seeing  statesman.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  game 
of  all  things  to  all  men  is  a  game  that  cannot 
be  played  with  success  in  the  long  run.  It 
can,  under  any  circumstances,  be  but  tempo- 
rary in  its  success.  (Hear,  hear.)  Seriously, 
then,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  pass  on  to  examine 
this  work  in  a  constitutional  point  of  view, 
clearing  away,  as  best  one  may,  these  ambigu- 
ities that  surround  it,  dealing  with  it  as  it  is, 
and  comparing  it  primarily  with  the  Constitu- 
tion of  the  United  States,  and  secondarily  with 
the  Constitution  of  Great  Britain.  1  wish 
I  could  compare  it  primarily  with  that  of 
Great  Britain  ;  but  it  is  so  much  more  like 
that  of  the  United  States,  that  I  cannot.  In 
parts  only  has  it  any  resemblance  to  the 
British  Constitution  ;  and  for  this  reason  the 
order  of  comparison  cannot  be  reversed.  I 
must  say,  before  I  go  further,  that  I  am  by 
no  means  an  admirer  of  a  great  deal  that  I 
find  in  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States. 
I  have  always  preferred,  decidedly  preferred, 
and  do  now  prefer,  our  own  British  Consti- 
tution. But  this,  at  least,  no  one  can  deny, 
that  the  franiers  of  the  American  Constitu- 
tion were  great  men,  wise  men,  far-seeing 
men;  that  their  work  was  a  great  work;  and 
that  to  compare  anybody  else's  work — 
especially  a  work  such  as  this,  of  the  few 
gentlemen,  doubtless  able  gentlemen,  who 
framed  this  Constitution — with  it,  is  to 
submit  that  work  to  a  very  severe  and  trying 
test.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Iramers  of  the 
Constitution  of  tho  United  States  were, 
indccti,  groat  men — living  in,  and  the 
product  of  a  great  age,  who  had  passed 
through  a  great  ordeal  and  been  brought 
up  to  the  levi'l  of  their  work  by  great 
events  in  which  they  had  been  loading 
actors ;  and  their  work  was  a  great 
work,   which    cost   much   time    and    much 


491 


discussion,  and  underwent  long  and  pains- 
taking revision  of  all  sorts,  in  all  quarters, 
before  it  was  finally  adopted.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Yet  we  aie  called  upon  to  admit  now,  and  to 
admit  it  without  examination,  that  this  work 
of  thirty-three  gentlemen,  done  in  seventeen 
days,  is  a  much  better  work  than  that;  and 
not  only  so,  but  that  it  is  even  better  for 
our  people  and  situation,  than  the  time- 
honored  Constitution  of  our  Mother  Land ; 
that  it  combines  essentially  the  advantages 
of  both,  with  the  disadvantages  of  neither. 
I  do  not  think  so.  The  Constitution  of  the 
United  States,  it  must  be  borne  in  mind,  at 
least  lasted  seventy  years  without  fracture. 
It  has  stood  a  good  deal  of  straining,  from 
events  beyond  the  possible  foresight  or  con- 
trol of  those  who  framed  it ;  and  it  may  yet 
stand  many  more  years,  notwithstanding 
this  late  strain  upon  it.  If,  indeed,  Louisiana 
had  not  been  purchased,  if  the  cotton-gin 
had  not  been  inventsd — the  two  unforeseen 
events  which  so  encouraged  the  growth 
of  cotton  and  therefore  of  slavery — if  it 
had  not  been  for  these,  what  I  may  call 
extraneous  events,  which  could  not  be 
expected  to  enter  into  the  minds  of  the 
framers  of  that  Constitution,  it  probably 
would  not  have  received  the  shock  that 
it  has  received ;  but  we  do  not  know  yet 
that  that  shock  will  have  a  fatal  effect, 
or  that  it  will  break  up  the  wonderful  fabric 
which  they  created.  Perhaps  it  may  change 
that  fabric  more  or  less  in  some  of  its  parts  ; 
and  after  it  shall  have  passed  away,  the  labric 
itself  may  not  improbably  endure  for  a  very 
long  time  to  come.  But  as  to  this  proposed 
Constitution  of  ours,  should  it  become  the 
organic  law  of  the  land,  how  long  will  it  last  ? 
How  will  it  work,  if  it  does  last  ?  And  to 
or  towards  what,  while  working,  will  it  tend  ? 
To  these  questions,  I  have  now  to  call  the 
earnest  attention  of  this  House.  I  begin, 
Mr.  Speaker,  with  the  future  House  of 
Commons — falsely  so  called.  I  shall  not  take 
up  the  different  resolutions  one  after  another, 
and  criticize  them  in  that  manner ;  but  I 
will  take  up  the  different  leading  features  of 
the  scheme  consecutively,  and  endeavor  not 
to  misrepresent  them.  If  I  should  do  so, 
or  at  all  misstate  their  character  or  probable 
effects,  I  give  honorable  gentlemen  opposite 
full  leave,  if  only  they  will  do  so  without 
throwing  joke3  across  the  floor  of  the  House, 
to  correct  me,  and  I  will  do  my  best  to  set 
myself  right.  The  House  of  Commons, 
then,  incorrectly  so  called,  to  distinguish  it 


from  the  other  House  that  corresponds 
with,  but  is  not  named  after  the  House 
of  Lords,  the  Legislative  Council,  forms 
the  leading  feature  of  this  project ;  and 
1  take  it  up  first,  comparing  it  with  the 
House  of  Representatives  of  the  United 
State.'?,  and  speaking  here  not  so  much  of  its 
powers  as  of  its  composition.  I  cannot,  in 
this  view,  compare  it  with  the  Imperial 
House  of  Commons,  because  the  principle  of 
its  construction  is  so  entirely  different.  In 
that  respect,  it  is  simply  copied  from  what  I 
think  the  wroog  model ;  and  the  copied 
parts  correspond  most  faithfully  and  exactly 
with  what  I  venture  to  call  the  least  desirable 
features  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  House  of  Representatives.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  copy  is  not,  I  repeat,  of  a  thing 
absolutely  good,  but  only  of  a  thing  as  good 
as  the  framers  of  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States,  circumstanced  as  they  were, 
could  make  it;  but  the  peculiarity  of  their 
system  that  I  object  to,  was  not  at  all  neces- 
sary to  ours.  I  think  it  was  absolutely 
uu necessary;  I  think  it  even  very  much  of 
an  excrescence.  It  can  hardly  be  denied, 
Mr.  Speaker,  that  there  is  a  good  deal  of 
practical  objection  to  the  plan  of  shifting 
representation  districts,  which  is  what  this 
system  adopts,  and  what  the  system  of  the 
United  States  adopted.  Every  ten  years  the 
representation  from  each  province  in  the 
House  of  Commons  is  to  be  changed  or 
readjusted  by  a  rule  which,  for  all  practical 
purposes,  is  essentially  the  same  as  that  of 
the  United  States.  Of  course  we  have  not 
the  little  addition  of  the  allowance  for  the 
three-fifths  of  the  slave  population  which 
they  have ;  but  decennially  we  are  to  take 
the  population  of  the  several  provinces,  and 
by  a  rule  in  all  essentials  common  to  the 
two  systems,  we  are  to  declare  how  many 
representation  districts  are  to  be  allowed  to 
each  province.  Now,  the  result  of  that 
system  must  be  that  we  can  have  no  lasting 
constituencies  for  the  future  House  of  Com- 
mons. These  representation  districts  cannot 
be  kept  to  correspond  with  our  municipal, 
business  or  registration  districts,  or  with  our 
districts  for  representation  in  our  provincial 
legislatures.  We  are  to  have  a  set  of  special, 
shifting  districts  for  the  mere  purpose  of 
electins;  our  Federal  House  of  Commons.  I 
must  say  that  this  principle  is  not,  from  a  Brit- 
ish point  of  view,  a  sound  one.  (Hear,  hear.) 
What  we  ought  to  do  is,  to  try  to  establish 
in  this  country  of  ours  a  set  of  representation 


492 


districts  as  permanent  and  as  closely  coinci- 
ding with  our  territorial  divisions  existing 
for  other  purposes,  as  circumstances  will  allow 
us  to  have  them ;  subdividing  or  otherwise 
altering  them,  or  erecting  new  ones,  only  as 
occasion  may  be  found  to  require. 

Hon.  4t;y.  Gkn.  C ARTIER— We  will 
do  that  for  the  local  parliaments. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Perhaps  so,  and  perhaps 
not.  That  distinction,  however,  is  just  what 
I  complain  of.  We  are  to  change  our  dis- 
tricts for  purposes  of  representation  in  the 
local  parliaments,  if  we  like,  but  not  unless 
we  like.  These  subdivisions  of  our  provinces 
may  thus,  in  the  main,  be  permanent.  But 
for  representation  in  the  Federal  Parliament 
we  are,  at  each  of  these  decennial  periods,  to 
have  a  general  readjustment  of  the  whole 
country,  so  as  to  divide  each  province  anew 
into  its  due  number  of  aliquot  parts.  This 
is  an  innovation  on  our  usages,  greatly  for 
the  Worse.  It  goes  to  destroy  that  character 
of  reality,  converiience  and  stability  which — 
if  our  system,  as  a  whole,  is  to  have  such 
character — had  need  be  maintained  to  the 
utmost  extent  practicable,  in  respect  of  our 
constituencies  and  of  our  minor  territo- 
rial delimitations  generally.  This  changing 
every  ten  jears  brings  together  electors  who 
have  not  been  in  the  habit  of  acting  with 
each  other.  In  England  they  do  nothing  of 
this  sort ;  they  do  not  change  their  limits 
lightly.  The  several  bodies  of  men  who 
send  representatives  to  the  Imperial  House 
of  Commons  have  the  habit  ol  so  coming 
together,  as  bodies  not  likely  to  be  broken 
up.  We  ought  to  keep  this  as  an  element 
of  our  Constitution,  but  it  is  carefully  elimi- 
nated from  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  McDOUGALL — I  am  sure 
the  honorable  gentleman  does  not  wish  to 
build  up  an  argument  on  a  misconception  of 
the  res  ilutions  for  the  purpose  of  misrepre- 
sentation I  am  .'•ure  that  he  must  have 
observed  this  fact,  that  it  may,  and  probably 
■wi'l  often  happen,  that  there  will  be  no 
change  as  to  the  number  of  members  or 
electoral  districts,  and  thero  certainly  will 
be  none  if  the  increase  of  population  in 
Lower  Canada  keeps  pace  with  that  in  Up- 
per Canada,  and  therelorc  the  evil  he  com- 
plains of  will  not  occur  unless  there  be  some 
diiferent  rule  of  increase  from  that  which 
has  prevailed  heretofore. 

Mk.  DUNKIN — if  any  one  imagines  that 
the  population  of  the  diHerent  piovinces  is 
going  to  increase  upon  any  thing  like  the 
Bame  rule,  then  I  differ  Irom  him.    I  believe 


there  will  be  a  very  much  more  rapid  rate 
of  increase  in  some  provinces  than  in  others; 
a  divergence  between  them  in  this  respect, 
of  the  same  kind,  and  perhaps,  even  to  the 
same  degree  as  in  the  case  of  the  United 
States.  There,  in  the  old  states,  at  every 
decennial  revision,  the  number  of  represen- 
tatives lessens,  and  in  the  new  states  it  in- 
creases, and  that  rapidly.  It  is  only  in  the 
comparatively  few  states  which  may  be  said  to 
be  neither  old  nor  new  that  it  remains  about  the 
same.  The  rule  is  one  ot  change,  for  the 
country  everywhere.  Any  escape  from  change 
is  the  exception.  And  with  us,  those  provinces 
which  shall  be  found  to  increase  faster  than 
Lower  Canada,  as  some  certainly  will  be, 
will  re-divide  their  whole  territory  every  ten 
years,  in  order  to  increase  their  number  of 
districts ;  and  those  which  increase  slower 
will  do  the  same,  in  order  to  cut  some  off. 
Even  Lower  Canada,  to  meet  the  varying 
rates  of  increase  of  its  ."several  parts,  will  be 
drawn  into  doing  the  same  sort  of  thing.  I 
shall  be  told,  no  doubt,  that  this  need  not 
be — that  mere  partial  changes  here  and  there 
may  be  made  to  answer  the  end  ;  but  I  know 
that  in  the  nature  of  things  it  will  be,  that 
such  partial  changes  will  not  be  made  the 
rule.  The  sweeping  rule  is  laid  down,  in  the 
abstract,  of  basing  representation  on  mere 
population  ;  and  that  rule  is  sure  to  be  fol- 
lowed out — not  only  as  between  the  several 
provinces,  but  also  as  within  each  ;  and 
here  again,  not  only  as  for  Federal,  but  also 
as  for  provincial  legislation.  For  all  legis- 
lative purposes,  we  must  look  to  have  all  our 
territorial  divisions  open  to  frequent,  one 
might  say  perpetual,  reconstruction ;  and 
this  subject  perpetually  to  the  disturbing 
influences  of  the  party  warfare  of  the  hour. 
The  exigencies  ot  that  warfare,  we  may  be 
sure,  will  tell ;  and  whatever  the  party  in  the 
ascendant,  whether  in  the  country  at  large 
or  locally,  will  find  means  in  this  part  of  our 
machinery  for  advancing  its  ends — means  not 
quite  of  the  sort  to  commend  themselves  to 
one's  approval.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  claimed, 
I  know,  as  a  merit  of 'this  scheme,  that  it 
allows  a  fivo  years'  term  to  our  House  of 
Commons,  in  place  of  the  two  years'  term 
fixed  for  the  House  of  Kcprcsontutives. 
Apart  from  these  decennial  revi.»ions,  1  would 
bo  glad  of  this.  IJut  five  is  the  half  of  ten,  I 
think;  and  though  ourllouses  of  Commons  may 
i>fteu  not  la.st  tlicirl'iill  term,  there  will  yet  sel- 
dom or  never,  in  all  probability,  be  more  than 
either  two  or  three  general  elections  held 
between  any  two  decennial  revisions.     A  leas 


493 


satisfactory  arrangement,  if  one  is  to  tliink 
of  our  House  of  Commons  at  all  treading  in 
the  footsteps  of  its  great  nomesake,  I  confess 
I  can  hardly  imagine.  There  everything 
favors  that  comlined  steadiness  and  variety 
of  local  influences  upon  the  representative 
machinery  which  is  at  once  characteristic  of, 
and  essential  to,  the  British  system,  and 
•without  which  neither  public  parties  nor 
public  men  can  act  or  last  as  it  requires  they 
should.  Here  everything  is  to  be  allowed  to 
tend  in  precisely  the  opposite  direction.  Nor 
is  this  all.  At  home,  while  the  constitu- 
encies are  wisely  kept  as  lasting  as  they  can 
be,  the  members  they  return  are  all  held 
members  of  the  one  House  of  Commons,  as 
little  distinguished  by  the  English,  Scotch, 
Irish  or  Welsh  location  of  their  constituen- 
cies as  they  well  can  be.  Here,  again,  this 
United  States  system  which  we  are  asked  to 
copy,  is  the  reverse,  and  the  reverse  of  sound 
judgment.  The  House  of  Representatives 
is  an  aggregate  of  state  delegations,  and  our 
mock  House  of  Commons  is  to  be  an  aggre- 
gate of  provincial  delegations.  Each  man  is 
to  come  to  it  ticketed  as  an  Upper  or  Lower 
Canadian,  a  New  Brunswicker,  a  Nova 
Scotian,  Newfoundlander,  a  Prioce  Edward 
Islander,  or  what  not.  These  distinctions, 
whicli,  if  we  are  to  be  a  united 
people,  we  had  better  try  to  sink,  we 
are  to  keep  up  and  exaggerate.  The 
system  will  do  that,  and  but  too  well. 
There  is,  however,  one  marked  contrast  as 
to  this,  between  the  system  of  the  United 
States  and  that  proposed  here.  In  the 
United  States,  for  the  House  of  Represen- 
tatives, the  system  is  at  least  sure  to  work, 
whether  for  good  or  evil.  Theirs  is  a  true 
Federation.  Its  founders  took  care,  when, 
with  the  foresight  of  statesmen,  they  arranged 
the  details  of  their  constitution,  to  frame  it 
so  as  to  work  in  all  its  important  parts,  and 
with  that  end  they  left  it  mainly  to  the 
several  states  to  work  out  the  arithmetical 
rule  laid  down  for  these  decennial  revisions, 
giving  them  such  powers  as  to  make  sure 
that  the  thing  intended  would  be  really 
and  punctually  done.  I  thought  when  I 
read  these  resolutions  first,  that  it  was,  of 
course,  the  intention  of  their  framers  to 
adopt  that  system  here ;  but  we  are  now 
authoritatively  told  that  it  is  not  so.  The 
General  Parliament  is  alone  to  do  the  whole 
work  of  these  re-divisions  of  the  consti- 
tuencies throughout  the  provinces.  But, 
suppose  that  for  any  cause,  such  as  readily 
may  suggest  itself — under  pretext  of  alleged 


incorrectness  of  a  census,  or  without  pretext 
— it  should  fail  to  discbarge  this  duty 
promptly,  or  should  discharge  it  in  a  ques- 
tionable way,  or  not  at  all — what  then  ? 
Is  the  Imperial  Parliament  to  reserve  a  right 
of  interference  in  such  case ;  or  is  the 
doctrine  broached  the  other  night  by  the 
Attorney  General  for  Lower  Canada,  as  to 
its  power  to  revoke  our  constitutional  charters, 
to  be  acted  on  ?  I  should  fancy  not.  But 
why,  then,  pretend  to  ask  the  Imperial 
Parliament  to  do  so  weak  a  thing  as  to  lay 
down  for  us  a  bad  rule  for  all  time  to  come, 
merely  that  we  may  follow  it  or  not,  as  in 
our  wisdom  or  unwisdom  we  may  please  ? 
Well,  then,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  turn  next  to 
our  Legislative  Council  —  too  little  like 
the  House  of  Lords,  to  bear  even  a  mo- 
ment's comparison  in  that  direction.  It 
must  be  compared  with  the  Senate  of  the 
United  States;  but  the  differences  here  are 
very  wide.  The  framers  of  this  Constitution 
have  here  contrived  a  system  quite  different 
from  that;  and  when  we  are  told  (as  it  seems 
we  are)  that  the  Legislative  Council  is  to 
represent  especially  the  Federal  element  in 
our  Constitution,  I  do  not  hesitate  to  affirm 
that  there  is  not  a  particle  of  the  Federal 
principle  about  it ;  that  it  is  the  merest  sham 
that  can  be  imagined.  (Hear,  hear.)  To 
show  the  contrast.  The  Senate  of  the 
United  States  consists  of  just  two  senators, 
freely  chosen  by  the  Legislature  of  each 
State  of  the  Union. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  — And 
sometimes  by  the  Governor. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— That  does  not  in  the 
least  touch  what  I  am  saying.  I  say  that 
the  Senate  consists  of  just  two  senators  from 
each  state,  who  are  freely  selected  by  the 
legislature  of  each  state.  It  is  true  that  in 
case  of  any  casual  vacancy  power  is  given  to 
the  Governor  of  the  state  to  fill  up  such 
vacancy  until  the  next  meeting  of  the  legis- 
lature of  the  state.  But  it  is  the  legislatures 
of  the  several  states  who  regularly  elect  these 
senators  from  each,  for  a  stated  term  of  six 
years,  and  subject  to  an  arrangement  for 
their  retiringin  such  rotation  as  never  to  leave 
any  state  unrepresented.  Well,  sir,  the 
Senate  of  the  United  States,  thus  constitu- 
ted of  two  picked  men  from  each  state,  and 
presided  over  by  the  Vice-President  or  by 
one  of  themselves,  freely  chosen  by  them- 
selves, have  devolved  upon  them  the  im- 
portant judicial  function  of  impeachment. 
Even  the  President  of  the  United  States  may 
be  impeached  before  them  for  treason  or 


49* 


malversation  in  office.  They  have  a  large 
share  of  executive  power  also ;  sitting  in 
secret  session  upon  all  treaties  and  upon 
most  appointments  to  office,  that  is  to  say, 
upon  all  appointments  of  the  more  important 
kind.  There  are  appointments  which  the 
President  may  make  without  their  concur- 
rence ;  but  as  a  rule,  there  are  no  important 
appointments  which  he  can  so  make.  Every 
treaty  and  every  important  appointment 
must  go  before  them,  and  may  be  disallowed 
by  them.  They  further  exercise  coordinate 
legislative  functions,  as  to  expenditure  and 
taxation,  with  the  House  of  Representatives. 
From  all  these  circumstances  combined,  the 
Senate  of  the  United  States  is,  I  believe, 
on  the  whole,  the  ablest  deliberative  body 
the  world  has  ever  known.  As  to  men  of 
third  and  fourth  rate  importance  finding 
their  way  there,  it  is  hardly  possible.  The 
members  of  the  Senate,  almost  without 
exception,  are  first  or  second-rate  men. 
There  are  na  small  men  among  them.  (Cries 
of  "  Yes  !  yes ! ")  "Well,  Mr.  Speaker, 
there  is  certainly  no  proportion  of  small  men, 
comparatively  speaking. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  is  a 
question  at  this  moment  as  to  the  relative  av- 
erages of  the  House  of  Representatives  and  of 
the  Senate.  I  heard  it  discussed  when  I  was 
in  Washington. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear  !  hear  !  ! 
Looking  to  Washington.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN— What  I  say^is,  I  believe, 
fully  borne  out  by  constitutional  writers  of 
the  highest  mark — by  De  Tocqueville, 
Chevalier,  and  others.  They  say  that  the 
peculiar  constitution  and  attributes  of  the  Sen- 
ate of  the  United  States  have  made  it  a  delibera- 
tive body  of  the  very  highest  mark.  And  even 
were  it  doubtful  wlicther  or  not  in  this  respect 
it  is  all  I  have  called  it,  at  least  of  this  there 
can  be  no  doubt  at  all.  As  intended  for  the 
Federal  check  in  the  system  of  the  United 
States,  it  is  a  machine  siirply  perfect.  It  is 
a  very  able,  deliberative  body,  of  moderate 
numbers,  carefully  chosen  on  the  strictest 
principle  of  federation,  changing  constantly, 
and  having,  on  every  matter  of  importance, 
a  voice  and  veto  of  the  most  efficient  kind. 
For  stopping  everything,  ibr  bringing  about 
a  deadlock — all  parts  of  their  machinery  view- 
ed together — it  aftbrds  no  ibnnidable  facilities; 
whilst  for  preventing  anything  from  being 
done  which  it  may  bo  to  the  public  interest, 
or  to  that  of  any  number  of  the  states,  to 
prevent,  it  is  as  perfect  as  can  be.  Look  now 
on  the  other  hand,  Mr.  Speaker,  at  the  Le- 


gislative Council  under  the  proposed  Confed- 
eration ;  what  is  it  ?      There  is  a  sort  of  at- 
tempt to  prevent  its  numbers  from  resting  on 
a  population  basis  ;  and  this  is  about  the  only 
principle  I  can  find  in  it.     (^Hear,  hear.)     It 
would  seem  to  have  been  thought,  that  as  the 
branch  of  the  legislature  was  to  be  shared  be- 
tween the  provinces  in  the  ratio  of  their  popu- 
lation, there  must  be  some  other  rule  followed 
for  the  Upper  Chamber.      So  we  are  to  have 
twenty-four  for  Upper  Canada,   twenty-four 
for  Lower  Canada,  twenty-four  for  the  three 
Lower  Provinces,  and  four  for  Newfoundland ; 
simply,  I  suppose,  because  the  populations  of 
these   equalized    sections  are  not  equal,  and 
because  four  is  not  in  proportion  to  the  popu- 
lation of  Newfoundland.    (Hear,  hear.)    And 
these    legislative    councillors,    thus     limited 
in    number,    are     to    hold    their    seats    for 
life.       They     are    not    to    be    even    freely 
chosen,     in    the     first     instance,     at    least, 
from   the  principal  men   in  each   section  of 
the    country.       They   are    to    be    selected, 
as  far  as  possible,  from  the   small  number  of 
gentlemen  holding  seats  in  the  present  Legis- 
lative Council,  either  by  the  accident  of  their 
having  been  nominated  to  them   some   time 
ago,  or  by  the  chances  of  popular   election 
since  ;  and  until  that  panel  is  exhausted,  no 
other  person  in  any  province   is  to  be  taken  ;  • 
and  hereafter,    Mr.   Speaker,   as  vacancies 
occur,  they  are  to  be  filled  as  we  are  now  told 
— and  this  is  the  strangest  thinsr  of  all — not 
by  the  provincial    legislatures,    nor  by  any 
authority  or  under  any  avowed  influence  of 
the  local  kind,  but  possibly  by  the  General 
Government.      And  forsooth,    this  is  called 
the  Federal  feature  of  our  system  !     (Hear, 
hear.)     The  vacancies,  to  be  sure,  in  Lower 
Canada  are  to  be  filled  by  selection  of  indivi- 
duals having  or  holding  property  in  Lower 
Canada, — and  more  than  that,   in  particular 
territorial  divisions  of  Lower  Canada  !     But 
are  these  individuals  to  be  ever  so  little  chosen 
by  the  people  of  such   territorial  divisions,  or 
even  of  Lower  Canada,   or  with  any  necessary 
reference  to    tiieir   wishes    in   that   behalf  ? 
Bless  you,  no  !  not  at  all.     That  would   go 
towards  making  a  Federal  body  of  this  House! 
(Hear,  hear.)     It  might  then  be  something 
of  a  Federal  check  upon  the  General  Govern- 
ment, and  that  would  never  do.     But  suppose 
this  should  happen — and  honorable  gentlemen 
opposite     must    admit    that    it    may, — that 
in     the     Federal    Executive   Council    some 
one  province  or  other — Upper  Canada,  Lower 
Canada,  or   any  other,   no   matter   which  — 
cither  is   not   represented,  or  is  represented 


495 


otherwise  tlian  as  it  would  wish  to  be.  While 
thus  out  in  the  cold,  a  vacancy  arises  in  the 
Legislative  Council,  requiring  to  be  filled  as 
for  such  province.  Where  is  the  guarantee 
that  it  will  be  filled  on  any  sort  of  Federal 
principle  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  And  yet,  what 
worse  wrong  or  insult  could  be  put  upon  a 
province,  than  would  be  involved  in  the  kind 
of  selection  likely  under  such  circumstances 
to  be  made  for  it  ?  Surely,  Mr.  Speaker, 
this  Legislative  Council,  constituted  so  difier- 
ently  from  the  Senate  of  the  United  States, 
presided  over  by  a  functionary  to  be  nomin- 
ated by  the  General  Government ;  having  no 
such  functions  of  a  judicial  or  executive 
character  as  attached  to  that  body,  and  cut 
ofi"  from  that  minute  oversight  of  the  finances 
which  attaches  to  the  Senate  of  the  LTnited 
States  ;  although  it  may  be  a  first-rate  dead- 
lock ;  although  it  may  be  able  to  interpose 
an  absolute  veto,  for  no  one  can  say  how  long, 
on  all  legislation,  would  be  no  Federal  check 
at  all.  I  believe  it  to  be  a  very  near  approach 
to  the  worst  system  which  could  be  devised  in 
legislation.  While  the  Senate  of  the  United 
States  is  nearly  perfect  in  the  one  way,  our 
Legislative  Council  is  to  be  as  nearly  "perfect 
in  the  other  way.  (Laughter.)  The  Hon.  At- 
torney General  for  Upper  Canada,  the  other 
night,  devised  and  stated  just  the  cleverest  de- 
fence he  could,  of  this  constitution  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council.  But  what  did  it  amount  to  ? 
Nothing.  He  undertook  to  tell  us,  that  from 
the  ordinary  course  of  events,  the  deaths  to 
be  counted  on  in  a  body  numbering  its  certain 
proportion  of  elderly  men,  and  so  forth,  the 
personal  composition  of  this  Council  would  not 
change  so  slowly  as  many  feared.  He  also 
urged  that  those  who  thus  found  their  way 
into  it  would  be  but  men  after  all — perhaps 
politicians  a  little  or  more  than  a  little  given 
to  complaisance — but  at  any  rate  men,  who 
would  know  they  had  no  great  personal  hold 
on  public  confidence  ;  and  so,  that  they  might 
sometimes  even  yield  to  pressure  too  easily,  in 
place  of  resisting  it  too  much.  Well,  sir,  I 
have  heard  it  said  that  every  government  in 
the  world  is  in  a  certain  sense  a  constitutional 
government — a  government,  that  is  to  say, 
tempered  by  check  of  some  kind.  The 
despotism  of  the  Grand  Turk  has  been  said 
to  have  its  constitutional  check  in  a  salutary 
fear  of  the  bow-string ;  and  there  may  prove 
to  be  something  of  the  same  sort  here.  But 
I  confess  I  do  not  like  the  quasl-despotism  of 
this  Legislative  Council,  even  though  so 
tempered.  Representing  no  public  opinion  or 
real  power  of  any  kind,  it  may  hurt  the  less; 


but  it  can  never  tend  to  good,  and  it  can  never 
last.  It  is  satisfactory  for  one  to  find  that  in  this 
view  I  do  not  stand  alone.  This  plan  is  con- 
demned, not  simply  by  the  Colonial  Secretary, 
but  by  the  Imperial  Government,  as  one  which 
cannot  be  carried  out.  The  Imperial  authori- 
ties cannot  but  see  that  a  body  appointed  for 
life  and  limited  in  numbers,  is  just  the  worst 
body  that  could  be  contrived — ridiculously 
the  worst. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Do  they 
say  it  is  the  worst  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  say  it  is  the  worst. 
They  say  it  is  bad.  It  is  condemned  by  Her 
Majesty's  Government,  in  diplomatic  terms  it 
may  be,  but  in  sufficiently  emphatic  terms. 
I  believe  Her  Majesty's  Government  regard 
it  as  I  do — as  pretty  nonsensical.  I  know  it 
may  be  said  that  Her  Majesty's  Government, 
perhaps,  may  apply  a  remedy  by  leaving  out 
the  provision  about  a  limited  number  of  mem- 
bers. 

Hon.  Atyt.  Gen.  CARTIER— That  is 
our  security. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Security  it  is  none,  but 
the  very  contrary.  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  even 
though  this  should  be  done,  or  though  the 
Imperial  Act  should  even  not  state  the  res- 
trictions by  which  it  is  proposed  to  limit  the 
Crown  in  its  first  choice  of  Legislative  Coun- 
cillors, such  remedy  would  be  the  merest  pal- 
liative imaginable.  The  restrictions  on  such 
choice  would  be  maintained  in  practice  all  the 
same;  and  even  the  limitations  as  to  number 
would  remain  as  an  understood  rule,  to  be 
set  aside  for  no  cause,  much  less  grave  than 
might  suffice  to  sweep  away  even  a  clause  of 
an  act  of  the  Imperial  Parliament.  Before 
leaving  this  subject,  Mr.  Speaker,  let  me  ask 
the  attention  of  the  House  lor  a  few  moments 
to  the  past  history  of  Canada  in  respect  of 
our  Legislative  Council.  (Hear,  hear.)  Did 
it  not  happen,  as  matter  of  fact,  that  the  first 
Legislative  Council  of  Canada,  not  being 
limited  in  point  of  numbers,  being  like  the 
House  of  Lords  in  that  respect — the  Crown, 
I  say,  having  the  full  choice  of  its  members, 
and  full  control  over  their  number — did  it 
not  happen,  I  say,  that  its  members  were  most 
of  them,  for  some  time,  named  from  one  side 
in  politics  ?  The  gentlemen  named  by  Lord 
SYDENHA3I  and  his  immediate  successors, 
were,  undoubtedly,  most  respectable.  There 
was  nothing  out  of  common  course  that  I  see 
about  these  appointments;  they  were  party, 
political  appointments  of  the  ordinary  kind. 
And  under  this  proposed  scheme  the  same 
kind  of  thing  would  naturally  happen  again. 


496 


But  in  1848,  with  a  change  of  government, 
it  became  necessary  to  carry  through  Parlia- 
ment a  li.easure  or  measures  to  which  it  was 
well  known  that  a  large  majority  of  this  Upper 
House  were  decidedly  opposed.  There  had  to  be 
some  talking  about  a  swamping  of  the  House 
— a  similar  step  to  what  was  threatened  once 
in  the  constitutional  history  of  Great  Britain. 
It  was  not  really  done.  It  did  not  need  to  be 
done,  or  at  least,  it  only  needed  to  be  done 
in  part ;  the  peculiarity  of  the  position 
of  honorable  gentlemen,  and  the  impossi- 
bility of  their  standing  out  beyond  a 
certain  point,  made  it  unnecessary  to  carry 
out  the  threat  to  extremity.  But  it  was 
carried  far  enough  to  destroy  their  self- 
respect,  and  the  respect  of  the  public  for 
them.  It  was  felt  that  they  had  no  sufficient 
status  in  the  country;  they  sank  in  public 
opinion,  and  sank  and  sank  until  every  one 
quietly  acquiesced  in  the  change  which  was 
afterwards  made  in  the  Constitution  of  the 
Council.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not  overstate 
the  truth  when  I  say  that  the  Legislative 
Council  so  sank  in  public  opinion,  because 
there  was  no  machinery  by  which  public  opin- 
ion could  act  upon  it,  except  that  of  a  further 
creation  of  councillors  by  the  Crown,  and 
there  being  no  other  way  of  averting  a  dead- 
lock, they  had  to  be  made  to  feel  that  in  case 
of  extremity  their  power  would  not  be  found 
equal  to  their  will. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIEll— That  is 
because  the  number  was  unlimited. 

Mr.  DUNKIN  — If  the  Crown  had  not 
been  able  to  increase  the  number,  those  hon- 
orable gentlemen  might  have  stood  out  against 
the  popular  demand,  until  a  revolution  had 
swept  them  away,  or  they  might  have  shrunk 
before  the  fear  of  it ;  as  it  was,  they  gave  way 
under  a  milder  pressure.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTlEil— There  is  a 
central  power  in  all  things.  There  is  a  centri- 
fugal force  and  a  centripetal  force.  Too  much 
of  either  is  dangerous,  and  what  is  true  in  the 
physical  world,  is  true  also  in  the  political 
world. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Certainly.  But  I  do  not 
sec  that  that  has  much  to  do  witli  the  re- 
marks I  am  just  nowoilcring.  (Hear,  hear.; 
I  say  the  elective  Legislative  Cuuiioil  was 
rendered  necessary,  in  the  opinion  of  the  coun- 
try, by  this  unfortunate  state  of  things,  even 
though  the  system  then  in  existence  was  not  so 
bad  as  the  system  now  offered  for  our  accept- 
ance. There  was  then  the  power  constitution- 
ally given  to  the  Crown  to  augment  the  num- 
bers of  the   Legislative   Council,  so  that  the 


gentlemen  constituting  that  body  could  recede 
before  the  determined  expression  of  the  pub- 
lic will,  as  gracefully  as  did  the  House  of 
Lords  on  the  memorable  occasion  I  have  al- 
ready alluded  to.  Had  that  House  not  yield- 
ed in  those  days  of  the  Reform  Bill,  even  the 
Crown  of  Great  Britain  might  not  have  es- 
caped the  consequences  of  a  bloody  revolution. 
That  House  might  have  been  constitutionally 
omnipotent,  but  its  physical  was  not  equal  to 
its  constitutional  capacity.  What  is  it  that 
is  proposed  to  be  given  to  us  here  ?  A  body 
not  at  all  weighty  in  the  influence  of  its  mem- 
bers, and  which,  it  is  said,  will  have  to  shrink 
from  the  exercise  of  its  prerogatives.  I  do 
not  know  whether  it  will  or  not.  But  I  had 
rather  not  give  to  a  body  of  men  limited  in 
number — though  even  so  little  weighty  in  the 
community — an  absolute  veto  on  all  legis- 
lation, for  so  long  as  the  Almighty  may 
be  pleased  to  continue  them  in  life.  I 
think  a  much  better  system  could  be 
devised — nay,  I  am  sure  of  it.  At  all 
events,  here  is  this  proposed  body,  which, 
we  are  told,  is  to  be  Federal,  but  which  is  not 
to  be  so.  We  are  told  it  is  to  be  a  constitu- 
tional check,  but  it  is  not  to  be  that  either. 
It  is  rather,  I  take  it,  a  cleverly  devised  piece 
of  dead  lock  machinery,  and  the  best  excuse 
made  for  it  is,  that  it  will  not  be  stroug  enough, 
to  do  near  all  the  harm  it  seems  meant  to 
do.  Her  Majesty's  Government  condemns  it. 
It  may  not  be  necessary  that  we  should  say 
with  very  marked  emphasis  how  we  join  in 
that  condemnation.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have 
then  shewn,  I  think,  Mr.  Speaker,  asregards 
our  House  of  Commons,  that  we  have  not  reach- 
ed perfection  ;  and  that,  as  regards  our  House 
of  Lords,  we  have  not  come  near  it.  1  pass 
on  to  the  Executive.  Here,  too,  there  is  to 
be  a  very  wide  difference  between  our  pro- 
posed system  and  that  of  the  United  States. 
To  begin,  they  have  an  elective  president, 
chosen  for  a  short  term  ;  with  all  the  evils, 
therefore,  of  frequent  presidential  elections, 
aggravated  by  the  president's  allowed  capacity 
for  reelection.  Nj  doubt,  we  avoid  these  ; 
our  Viceroy,  or  Governor  General,  is  not  to  be 
elective.  Nobody  proposes  that — I  do  not 
think  anybody  ever  did  propose  it.  And  the 
authors  of  this  proji-ct  have,  therefore,  no 
great  right  to  take  credit  for  this,  any  more 
than  for  their  unasked  offer  to  continue  Her 
Most  Gracious  Majrsty  upon  the  throne,  or 
in  other  words,  create  her  Queen  of  Britisli 
Nortli  Aujerica,  by  the  grace  of  the  Quebec 
Conlerence  !  (Laughter.)  This,  however, 
Mr.  Sl'E.iKER,  by  the  way.    What  is  more  im- 


497 


portant  to  notice  in  this  connexion,  is  the 
marked  distinction  on  which  1  have  already 
touched,  between  the  United  States  system, 
which  devolves  in  part  upon  the  Senate — and 
our  system,  which  devolves  not  at  all  upon  the 
Legislative  Council,  but  wholly  on  the  Execu- 
tive Council,  the  duty  of  advising  and 
aiding  the  head  of  the  Grovernment  in  the 
discharge  of  his  executive  functions.  As  I 
have  said,  in  the  United  States  the  Senate 
has  large  executive  functions. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CART IER— Without 
)  esponsibility  for  theii-  advice.  We  have  re- 
sponsibility, and  in  that  respect  our  system  is 
better. 

Mr.     DUNKIN— My    honorable    friend 
says    "without    responsibility."       I   rather 
think  not.     Take  the  case  of  a  senator  from 
Massachusetts  or  New  York.     I  rather  think 
he  will  feel  himself  very  distinctly  responsible 
to  the  state  he  represents.    He  is  not  responsible 
to  the  whole  people  of  the  United  States,  nor 
is  the  Senate,  as  a  whole,  collectively  respon- 
sible.    But  each  senator  is  particularly  and 
personally  responsible  to  his  own  state,   and 
acts  under   a    sense  of   that    responsibility. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Take  the  case  which  occurred 
a  number  of  years  ago,  when  President  Jack- 
son named,  as  Minister  to  the  British  Court, 
Martin   Van   Buren,  afterwards  his  suc- 
cessor in  the  presidential  chair.     A  majority 
of  the  Senate    disallowed   that   nomination. 
Did    not    the    senators    who  voted    for    or 
against  that  nomination,  do  so  under  a  weighty, 
practical  responsibility  ?    Every  man  of  them 
did.     They  voted  in  the  view  and  under  the 
sanction  of  that  responsibility ;  and  some  of 
them  had  to  pay  for  the  exercise  of  it.     And 
so  they  do,  all  along.     (Hear,  hear.)     This, 
however,     is    a    digression     into    which     I 
have    been     led    by    the     remark     of    my 
honorable  friend.      I  return   to  the    line  of 
argument  I  was  pursuing.     What  I  am  just 
now  shewing  is,  that  in  respect  of  the  consti- 
tution of  the  executive  power,   this  scheme 
urged  upon  our  acceptance  differs  toto  ccelo 
from  the  system  in  operation  in  the  United 
States.     I  shall  consider  presently  the  ques- 
tion of  its  advantages  or  disadvantages.     lu 
the  United  States,  as  is  admitted,  the  Senate 
does  a  certain  part  of  what  we  undertake  here 
to  do  by  means  of  a  Cabinet.     The  Federal 
check  so  exercised  by  the  Senate  renders  un- 
necessary, for  any  Federal  purpose,  the  exist- 
ence of  a  Cabinet.     Indeed  they  do  not  want 
a  Cabinet  for  any  purpose  at  all.     It  is  not  of 
their  system.     But  here,  with  our  chief  ma- 
gistrate not  elected,  we  must  have  one.     And 
64 


yet,  how  are  we  to  make  it  work,  engrafted 
on  a  system  which,  in  its  essentials,  is  after 
all   more  American   than   British  ?     This  is 
what  I  have  now  come  to.     I  have  to   ask 
honorable  gentlemen  opposite  how   they  are 
going  to   organize    their    Cabinet,    for    these 
provinces,  according  to  this  so-called  Federal 
scherne  ?     (Hear,  hear.)     I  think  I  may  defy 
them  to  shew  that  the  Cabinet  can  be  formed 
on  any  other  principle  than  that   of  a  repre- 
sentation of  the  several  provinces  in  that  Ca- 
binet.    It  is  admitted  that  the  provinces  are 
not  really   represented  to  any  Federal  intent 
in   the   Legislative    Council.      The    Cabinet 
here  must  discharge  all  that  kind  of  function, 
which  in  the  United  States  is  performed,  in  the 
Federal  sense,  by  the  Senate.     And  precisely 
as  in  the  United  States,  wherever  a  Federal 
check  is  needed,  the  Senate  has  to  do  Federal 
duty  as  an  integral  part  of  the   Executive 
Government.     So  here,  when  that  check  can- 
not be  so  got,  we  must  seek  such  substitute 
for  it  as  we  may,  in  a  Federal  composition  of 
the  Executive  Council ;   that   is  to  say,  by 
making  it  distinctly  representative  of  the  pro- 
vinces.    Well,  I  must  say  that  this  sort  of 
thing  is  utterly  variant  from,  and  inconsistent 
with  British  practice  and  British  principle; 
with  the  constitutional  system  which  makes 
the  whole  Cabinet  responsible  for  every  act 
of  government.     The  British  Cabinet  is  no 
Cabinet  of  sections,  but  a  unit.     In  illustra- 
tion of  the  view  which  I  am  anxious  to  im- 
press upon  the  judgment  of  the  House,  let  me 
revert  for  a  moment  to  our  Canadian  history. 
I  can  only  look  forward  to  the  future  by  the 
lights  given  me  by  the  past.      The  union  of 
the  Canadas,  consummated  in  1841,  was  a  le- 
gislative union.       There  was  nothing  in  it 
savoring  ever  so  faintly  of  Federalism,  unless 
it  were  the  clause  which  declared,   and  quite 
unnecessarily  declared,  that  there  should  be  an 
equal  representation  in  the  Legislative  Assem- 
bly of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  respectively. 
If  the  Union  Act  had  merely  distributed  the 
constituencies  in  such  a  way  as  to  give  equal- 
ity  of  representation  to   Upper  and  Lower 
Canada,  it  would  have  done  for  practical  pur- 
poses all  it  did.      But  besides  doing  this,  it 
quite  uselessly  added  in  terms  that  the  num- 
bers were  to  be  equal — subject  always,  how- 
ever, by  a  strange  anomaly,  to  our  declared 
power  thereafter    by   legislation  of  our  own 
to  disturb  that  equality,  if  we  pleased.    Well, 
sir,   when  an  Executive  Government  had  to 
be  first  organized  for  Canada,  Lord  Syden- 
ham was  obliged  to  call  into  his  Cabinet  cer- 
tain oflBicials  whom  he  found  in  Upper  and 


498 


Lower  Canada    respectively,    and  he  did  so 
without  observiDg  any  rule  of  equality  as  to 
their  numbers.     Indeed,  until  1848,  equality 
in  the  representation  of  the  two  sections  of  the 
province  in  the  Cabinet  was  never  seriously 
aimed  at.     In  1848,  from  considerations  of  a 
peculiar  character— perhaps  more  personal  than 
political — the  usage  was  commenced,  and  it  has 
since  been  persevered  in,  of  having  a  Premier 
and  a  sub-Premier,  and  a  Cabinet  organized 
under  them,  respectively,  in  two  sections — of 
course  equal  in  numbers,   or  as  nearly  so  as 
possible.    And  on  this  usage  and  in  connection 
with  it  have  developed    themselves  all   those 
double  majority  and  double  ministry  notions 
and  practices  which  again  of  late  have  so  con- 
stantly been    leading  us  into   all  manner  of 
constitutional  difficulties.     (Hear,  hear.)     It 
has  been  found  again  and  again  impossible  to 
constitute  a  satisfactory  ministry  of  two  sec- 
tions ;  because  one  or  other  of  the  two  sections, 
if  they  came  together  on  any  basis  of  real 
political  agreement,  was  so  very  likely  not  to 
be  able  to  command  a  majority  of  its  sectional 
representation   in  this  House.     It  was,  prac- 
tically, a  division  of  the  House,  as  well  as  of 
the    Government,    into  two    sections — practi- 
cally,  all  but  a  government  by  two  ministries 
and   with  two  Houses.     We   did   not  quite 
admit,  to  be  sure,  that  there  were  two  minis- 
tries ;  although,  by  the  way,  at  one  time — I 
refer  to  the  time  of  the  first  proposed  vote  of 
want  of  confidence  in  theMACDONALD-DoRiON 
ministry — a  motion  was  on  the  point  of  being 
made — notice  of  it  was   given — which    posi- 
tively did  speak  of  a  Lower  Canadian  minis- 
try  as  contradistinguished    from    an    Upper 
Canadian  ministry.     I  go  into  this  to  shew 
that  already,  in  Canada,  the  force  of  circum- 
stances has  been  one  too  many  for  us,  and  has 
inflicted  upon  us  a  system  more  complex — less 
workable — than   obtains  in   England.     With 
us,  as  at  home,   the  Constitution   makes   the 
whole  Ministry,  collectively,  responsible  for  all 
the  acts  it  performs;  but  it  is  well  known  that 
here,  for  all  practical  purposes,  we  have  for 
years  had  our  Ministry  acting  by  two  sections 
— each  section  with  a  chici'  of  its  own,  to  a 
large   extent   a  policy    of  its  own,  and    the 
responsibility    of    leading    and    governing    a 
section  of  this   House  of  its    own.     (^llear, 
hear.)     We  have  been  federalising  our  Con- 
stitution   after  a  very   new    and    anomalous 
fashion   ever  since  1848,  and   by   that,  more 
than  by  anything  else,  have  been  getting  our- 
selvil  into  that  sort  of  difficulty  in  which  wc 
have  latterly  found  ourselves.     (Hear,  hear.) 
And  no«^,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  just  want  to  know 


how  this  proposed  scheme  is  going  to  work  in 
this  respect  ?     As  we  have  seen,  it  starts  with 
a  principle,  as  to  the  election  of  the  House  of 
Commons,  which  must  involve   the   arraying 
on   the  floor  of  that  House,  not  of  a  set  of 
members  of  Parliament  coming  there  to  judge 
and  to  act  each  for  the  whole  of  British  North 
America,  but  of    a  certain  fixed  number  of 
Upper  Canadians,  a  certain  fixed  number  of 
Lower  Canadians,  a  certain  fixed  number  of 
Nova    Scotians,    of    New    Brunswickers,   of 
Prince  Edward  Islanders,  of  Newfoundland- 
ers, of  Red  River  men,  of  men  from  Vancou- 
ver's Island,  of  British  Columbia  men,  of  Sas- 
katchewan men — each  to  act  therefor  his  own 
province.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  we  ever  get  all  these 
territories  laid  out  into  provinces,  we  are  to 
have  just  so  many  sections,  numerically  most 
unequal,  upon   the  floor  of  this  House,  and 
the  only  abiding  distinctions  between  mem- 
bers will  be  those  represented  by  the  territor- 
ial lines  between  their  provinces.     The  Legis- 
lative Council,  we  have  seen,  will  not  be  the 
check  which  these  sections  will  require.     The 
Executive  Council  has  got  to  be  that  check, 
and  in*  the  Executive  Council  these  sections 
will   have    to   reproduce    themselves.     Apart 
from   the  provinces  or  vast  territory  to  the 
west  of  us,  we  shall  thus  have  our  six  such 
sections  on  the  floor  of  the  Commons  House^ 
with  their  six  corresponding  sections  in  the 
Executive    Council,    and    six    parliamentary 
majorities  to  be  worked  together,  if  possible, 
while  hitherto  we  have  found  our  two  sections 
and  two  majorities  one  too  many.     Our  con- 
stitutional difficulties,  I  repeat,  are  referable 
to  that  very  practice,  and  so  it  is   proposed 
that  we  should  try  a  system  three  times — and 
more  than   three  times — more  complex  still. 
(Hear,  hear.)     That  cleverest  of  politicians 
who,  fcr  two  or  three  years  running,  under 
such  a  system,  shall  have  managed   to  carry 
on  his  Cabinet,  leading  six  or  more   sections 
in  our  Commons  House,  six  or  more  sections 
in  the  Legislative  Council,  and,  i'orsooth,  six 
or  more  local  parliiuuents  and    lieutenant-gov- 
ernors,  and  all   the   rcst  of  it   besides — that 
gifted  man  who  shall  have  done  this  for  two 
or  three  years  running,   had  better  be  sent 
home  to  teach  Lords  PaLMKUSTuN  and  DER- 
BY their  political  alphabet.     The  task  will  bo 
infinitely  more  difficult  than   the   task   these 
English  statesmen  find  it  none  too  easy  to  un- 
dertake.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.    Gen.    CARTIER— There 
will  be  no  difficulty. 

xMr.  DUN.K1N — The  hon.  gentleman  never 
sees  a  difficulty  in  anything  he  is  going  to  do. 


499 


Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C ARTIER— And  I 
have  been  generally  pretty  correct  in  that. 
I  have  been  pretty  successful.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Pretty  successful  iu 
some  things — not  so  very  successful  in  some 
others.  The  hon.  gentleman  has  been  a 
good  deal  favored  by  accident.  But  I  am 
not  quite  certain  that  I  believe  iu  the  abso- 
lute omniscience  of  anybody.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  now,  if  this  Executive  Council  is  to 
have  in  it,  as  I  am  sure  it  must  have,  in 
order  to  work  at  all,  a  representation  of  the 
different  provinces,  all  or  nearly  all  of  them, 
let  us  look  for  a  moment  at  what  will  have 
to  be  its  number.  There  are  two  ways  of 
calculatins;  this — two  sets  of  data  on  which 
to  go.  Either  we  must  go  upon  what  I  may 
call  the  wants  of  the  component  parts,  or  we 
may  start  from  the  wants  of  the  country  as 
a  whole.  Suppose,  then,  we  start  from  the 
wants  0  tbe  different  provinces.  I  take  it 
that  no  section  of  the  Confederation  can 
well  have  less  than  one  representative  in  the 
Cabinet.  Prince  Edward  Island  will  want 
one;  Newfoundland,  one.  A  difficulty  pre- 
sents itself  with  regard  to  Lower  Canada. 
On  just  the  same  principle  upon  which 
Lower  Canada  wants,  for  Federal  ends,  to 
have  a  proper  representation  in  the  Execu- 
tive Council,  on  that  same  principle  the 
minorit}'^  populations  in  Lower  Canada  will 
each  want,  and  reasonably  want,  the  same 
thing.  We  have  three  populations  in  Lower 
Canada — the  French-Canadians,  the  Irish 
Catholics,  and  the  British  Protestants  In 
other  words,  there  are  the  Catholics,  and  the 
noa-Catholics,  and  the  English-speaking  and 
the  non-English-8peaking,and  these  two  cross- 
lines  of  division  cut  our  people  into  the  three 
divisions  I  have  just  indicated  Well,  if  in 
a  government  of  this  Federal  kind  the  differ- 
ent populations  of  Lower  Canada  are  to  feel 
that  justice  is  done  them,  none  of  them  are 
tO  be  there  ignored.  The  consequences  of 
ignoring  them  might  not  be  very  coc.fortable. 
Heretofore,  according  to  general  usage,  the 
normal  amount  of  representation  for  Lower 
Canada  in  the  Executive  Couucil  has  been 
six  seats  out  of  twelve.  Uf  those,  four  may 
be  said  legitimately  to  belong  to  the  French- 
Canadians,  one  to  the  Irish  Catholics,  and 
one  to  the  British  Protestant  class.  Every- 
one is  satisfied  that  that  is  about  the  fairest 
thing  that  can  be  done.  There  have  been 
times  when  these  proportions  have  varied. 
There  havL  been  exceptional  times  when  the 
British  Protestant  population  has  had  to  put 
up  with  a  Solioltor-General  out  of  the  Oahinet, 


and  has  done  so  with  no  very  loud  complaint. 
There  has  never  been  a  time,  I  think,  when 
there  was  not  an  Irish  Catholic  in  the  Cabi- 
net. There  have  been  times  when  the  number 
of  I'rench-Cauadians  has  been  less  than  four, 
and  there  was  then  much  complaint.  Six 
members — four,  one  and  one — are  just  about 
what  you  must  give  to  please  each  section 
of  Lower  Canada.  Well,  sir,  if  there  are  to 
be  six  for  Lower  Canada,  there  must  be  six 
or  seven  for  Upper  Canada,  and  you  cannot 
very  well  leave  less  than  three  each  for  Nova 
Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  and,  as  I  have 
said,  one  each  for  Newfoundland  and  Prince 
Edward  Island  ;  and  thus  you  have  an  Exe- 
cutive Council  cf  twenty  or  twenty-one  mem- 
bers, besides  all  we  might  have  to  add  for  other 
provinces  ;  and  this,  I  rather  think,  is  a  little 
too  many.  The  thing  could  not  be  done ; 
for  so  large  a  Cabinet  could  never  work. 
Suppose  then,  on  the  other  hand,  that  we  start 
with  the  idea  of  limiting  the  number  of  our 
Executive  Council  to  meet  what  I  may  call  the 
exigencies  of  the  country  as  a  whole.  Eleven, 
twelve  or  thirteen — the  latter,  as  an  hon.  mem- 
ber observes, is  an  unlucky  numDer — will  be  as 
many  as  we  can  possibly  allow.  Of  this 
number  one,  as  before,  will  be  wanted  for 
Newfoundland  and  one  for  Prince  Edward 
Island.  If  one  is  wanted  for  each  of  the 
little  provinces,  New  Brunswick  and 
Nova  Scotia  will  be  sorely  discontented 
unless  they  get,  at  least,  two  apiece ;  and 
neither  Lower  Canada  nor  Upper  Canada 
will  be  contented  with  the  three  left  for  each 
of  the  u.  And  for  Lower  Canada,  in  parti- 
cular, how  will  anyone  divide  this  intractable 
figure  between  her  French,  Irish  and 
British  ?  Shall  we  give  them  one  apiece, 
and  ask  the  French-Canadian  element  to  be 
content  ^ith  one  voice  in  a  cabinet  of  a 
dozen  ? — or,  give  that  element  two,  without 
satisfying  it — so  leaving  out  either  the  Irish 
or  the  British,  to  its  intense  disgust  ? — or,  give 
the  preponderating  element  the  whole,  to 
the  intense  disgust  of  both  the  others  ?  It 
will  be  none  too  easy  a  task,  sir,  I  think,  to 
form  an  Executive  Council  with  its  three 
riiembers  for  Lower  Canada,  and  satisfy  the 
somewhat  pressing  exigencies  of  her  creeds 
and  races. 

FToN.  Atxy.  Gen.  CARTIER— Hear ! 
hear! 

Mr.  DUNKIN  — The  Hon.  Attorney 
General  East  probably  thinks  he  will  be  able 
to  do  it. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  h^Ye 
no  doubt  I  can.    (Laughter.) 


500 


Mr.  DUNKIN— Well,  I  will  say  this, 
that  if  the  hon.  gentleman  can  please  all 
parties  in  Lower  Canada  with  only  thiee 
members  in  the  Executive  Council,  he  will 
prove  himself  the  cleverest  statesman  in 
Canada. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  CARTIER— Upon 
whose  authority  does  the  hon.  gentleman  say 
there  will  be  only  three  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN — The  hon.  gentleman  has 
evidently  not  been  listening  to  ray  line  of 
argument,  and  I  do  not  think  that,  to 
enlighten  him,  I  am  called  upon  to  punish 
the  House  by  going  over  it  all  again.  (Hear, 
hear.)  What  T  say  is,  that  if  the  number 
of  the  Executive  Council  is  fixed  according 
to  the  wants  of  the  country  as  a  whole,  and 
not  to  what  I  may  call  the  local  wants  of  the 
several  provinces,  there  will  be  in  all  some 
eleven,  twelve  or  thirteen  member? ;  and 
you  will  have  a  number  so  small  in  propor- 
tion to  the  various  interests  to  be  satisfied, 
that  it  will  be  extremely  difficult  to  avoid 
serious  trouble  in  the  matter  of  its  local 
distribution.  On  the  other  hand,  if  you 
give  all  the  localities  the  number  they  had 
need  have,  on  local  grounds,  the  Council 
will  be  too  large  to  work.  It  will  be  practi- 
cally impossible  to  meet  the  needs  of  all  the 
provinces ;  and  yet,  none  can  be  left  out  in 
the  cold,  on  pain  of  consequences.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— When 
the  matter  is  brought  to  a  test,  the  hon. 
gentleman  will  see  that  he  has  aggravated 
the  difficulty. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Sidney  Smith  once 
said  of  a  leading  Cabinet  minister  at  home, 
that  he  would  be  willing  at  the  shortest 
notice,  either  to  undertake  the  duties  of  the 
Archbishop  of  Canterbury  or  to  assume 
command  of  the  Channel  fleet.  (Laughter.) 
We  have  some  public  men  in  this  country 
who,  in  their  own  judgment,  have  ample 
capacity  for  assuming  the  responsibility  and 
discharging  tlie  functions  of  those  two  high 
posts,  and  perhaps  of  a  field  marshal  or 
commander-in-chief  besides.  (Renewed 
laughter.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  would 
say,  that  although  I  do  not  feel  equal  to  the 
task  of  commanding  the  Cliauuol  fleet  cr  fill- 
ing the  office  of  Archbishop  of  Canterbuiy,  I 
do  feel  equal  to  the  work  of  forming  an  Ex- 
ecutive Council  that  will  be  satisfactory  to 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  as  well  as  to  the 
Lower  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) 


Mr.  DUNKIN— Well,  it  will  require,  in 
my  opinion,  something  more  than  bold  asser- 
tion, and  capacity  for  a  hearty  laugh,  to 
overcome  the  difficulty  that  will  some  day  or 
other  be  presented.  (Hear,  hear.)  And 
now,  sir,  I  come  to  speak  of  the  relations  to 
subsist  between  this  Federal  power  and  the 
difierent  provinces,  as  compared  with  those 
between  the  L'nited  States  and  the  different 
states.  Again,  the  comparison  has  to  be 
made  much  more  with  the  Unit  d  States 
system  than  with  that  of  Great  Britain  ; 
although,  unfortunately,  perhaps,  there  is 
in  this  part  of  the  scheme  some  confusion  of 
inconsistent  features  of  the  two  systems. 
Great  Britain  has  not  yet,  in  any  true  sense 
of  the  term,  federated  herself  with  any  of 
her  colonies.  She  just  retains  a  nominal 
supremacy  over  them. 

Mr.  SCOBLE — It  is  a  real  supremacy. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — No ;  it  is  only  nominal 
as  regards  its  exercise.  It  is  not  real  in  the 
sense  of  amounting  to  a  substantial,  practical 
exercise  of  power  over  the  colonies.  For 
these  nearly  five  and  twenty  years  past,  I 
call  to  mind  no  legislative  act  of  ours  dis- 
allowed by  the  Home  Government. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Yes,  there  was 
one — Mr.  Hincks'  Currency  Act. 

Mr.  DUNKIN—^'  ell,  I  believe  that  wj^. . 
But  in  that  case  we  got  our  own  way  in 
efi'ect  directly  afterwards.  I  am  referring 
more  paiticularly,  of  course,  to  what  may  be 
called  the  conduct  of  our  own  domestic 
afi'airs.  There  is  no  mistake  but  we  have 
had  given  to  us  by  Great  Brilain  a  control 
practically  unlimited  over  our  own  affairs; 
she  lets  us  do  what  we  like,  while  professing 
to  retain  a  perfect  nominal  supremacy  over 
us.  She  appoints  our  Governor  General, 
but  when  he  comes  here,  he  does  what  we 
want,  not  what  she  may  want.  She  can,  if 
she  likes,  disallow  all  our  statutes  ;  but  for 
all  practical  purposes  she  never  does.  She 
may,  if  she  chooses,  alter  or  repeal  the 
Charter  of  oar  liberties  which  she  granted  to 
us,  but  she  never  thinks  of  doing  such  a 
thing,  and  we  know  she  will  not  Well, 
here  in  this  proposed  Constitution — looking 
to  the  relations  which  are  to  subsist  between 
the  Federation  and  the  provinces — in  lieu 
ofa  leal  Fedoratiun,  such  as  sub.-<ists  between 
tho  United  States  and  the  diflereut  states, 
we  find  an  attempt  to  adopt  to  a  consider- 
able extent  the  IJritish  sys  cm  of  a  stated 
supremacy,  not  meant  to  be  in  fact  the  half 
of  what  it  passes  for  in  theory.  But,  however 
such  a  system  may  work  as  between  Great 


501 


Britain  and  her  colonies,  it  by   no  means 
follows  that  it  admits  of  extension   to  this 
case.     If  the  vaguely  stated  powers  of  our 
so-called  Federation  are  to  be  merely  nomi- 
nal, they  will  be  insufficient ;  if  not  nominal, 
they  will  be  excessive.      Either  way,  the 
United  States  idea  of  an  attempted  precise 
statement  of  the  powers  meant  to  be  given 
and   used,  is   the  true  one.     What,  then,  is 
the  system  adopted  in  the  United  States,  as 
regards  these  relations  between  the  Federal 
power  and   the  several  status  ?     There  are 
two  leading  principles,  and  very  sound  prin- 
ciples, that  pervade  it.     In  the  first  place  the 
United  States,  by  its  Constitution,  guarantees 
to  every  state  in  the  union  a  republican  form 
of  government;  by  which  is  meaut  a  Consti- 
tution, in  the  main,  analogous  to  that  of  the 
United   States — an    elective   executive,    an 
elective  second  branch,  an  elective  popular 
branch — the  whole  without  what    we  here 
call  responsible  government.     This  is  what 
everybody  understands  as  the  republican  sys- 
tem.    Accordingly,  just  the  same   sort   of 
thing  in  principle  and  in  all  its  great  outlines 
as  the   Constitution  of  the  United  States,  is 
the  Constitution  of  each  separate  state  of  the 
union.     And  in  the  second  place,  along  with 
this   uniformity  in    principle    and    outlines 
between  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States 
and   those   of  the  different  states,  there  is 
established  a  veiy  exact  system  of  what  I  may 
call    limited    state    autonomy.      The   state, 
within  its  certain  range  of  subjects,  does  what 
it  likes,  and  is  as  free  to  act  as  the  United 
States ;   it  has  its  own  functions,  and  within 
the  limits  of  those  functions  nobody  controls 
it.     The  United  States  have  their  special 
functions  also,  and  wit'iin  the  range  of  those 
functions   can,  in   lurn,  control   everything. 
The  respective  judiciary  systems  of  the  state 
and  of  the  United  States,  are  further  so  con- 
trived as  to   be  the  most  perfect  cheek  that 
can  well  be  imagined  to  secure  the  smooth 
and  steady  working  of  this  Federal  national 
machinery.    It  is  a  complex  piece  of  machine- 
ry, if  you  will ;  there  are  many  delicate  parts 
in  it,  one  dependiug  nicely  upon  another ; 
but,  upon   the  whole,  it  has  worked  pretty 
well  for  many  years,  and  may  go  on  working 
pretty  well  for  many  more. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— But  the 
judges  are  elected. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Does  the  hon.  gentleman 
mean  to  tell  this  House  that  the  principle  of 
elective  judges  forms  a  part  of  the  constitu- 
tioaal  system  of  the  United  States  ?  Why, 
sir,  an  elective  judiciary  is  a  mere  excres- 


cence of  quite    late    growth,  and  has  not 
fastened  itself  on  the  system  of  the  United 
States  at  all.     It  is  not  even  as  yet  adopted 
by  nearly  all  the  individual  states,  but  only 
by    some    of  them.     It   is    an   excrescence 
which  the  founders    of  the    Uuited   States 
system  never,  I  fancy,  thought  of,  or  in  all 
human  probalility  they  would  have  expressly 
provided    against   it.     (Hear,    hear.)     But 
now,  sir,  what  is  the  system  we  are  going  to 
adopt  according  to  these  resolutions  ?  What 
are  the  relations  to  be  established  between 
our  general  and  local  governments  ?      We 
are  told  to  take  for  granted  that  no  clashing 
of  interest  or  feeling  need  be  feared  ;  that 
the  Federal  union  offered  us  in    uame  will 
be  a  legislative  union  in  reality.     Yet,  who- 
ever dislikes  the  notion  of  a  legislative  union 
is  assured  it  will  be  nothing  of  the  sort.   Now, 
sir,  I  do  not  believe  that  you  can  have  all 
the  advantages  of  these  two  systems  com- 
bined in  one.    (Hear,  hear.)     A  Legislative 
union  is  one  thing;  a  Federal  union  is  an- 
other.    The  same  system  cannot  be  both  at 
once.     You    cannot   devise   a   system    that 
shall  have  all  the  advantages  of  the  ooe  and 
of  the  other ;  but  it  is  quite  possible  that 
you  may  devise  one   that  will  combine  the 
chief  disadvantages   of  both,  and  that  is,  I 
fear,  pretty   much   what  this  system  does. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Let  me  first  take  one  feature 
of  the  scheme,  or,  I  might  say,  one  absence 
of  a   feature    from    the    scheme — the  non- 
provision  of  anything   like  provincial  consti- 
tutions.    We  are  not  told  about  them  ;  they 
are  kept  back  completely   in  the  dark ;  it  is 
part  of  the  scheme  that   we  are  not  to  know 
what  it  means  them  to  be.     (Laughter.)     It 
is  part  of  the  scheme,  too,   from  all  appear- 
ance, that  they    may  not    be    at   all    alike. 
For  an;ything  I  can  see,   Nova  Scotia  will 
have  a  right  under  this  scheme  to  devise  a 
system  of  responsible  government,  with  a 
cabinet  and  two  branches  of  the  legislature. 
New  Brunswick,  if  it  pleases,  may  have  only 
cne  legislative  body,  with  or  without  respon- 
sible  government.       So    may    the    Prince 
Edward  Island   people  have  anything  they 
like;  and  the  people  of  Newfoundland  may 
do  what  they  like,  and  so  may  we  in  Canada. 
Lower  Canada  may  even  have  a  constitution 
of  one  kind,  and    Upper  Canada  one  of  a 
totally  different  kind.      There  may   be    no 
two  of  our  six  or   more  local  constitutions 
framed  on  the  same  model.     (Hear,  hear.) 
It  seems  to  be  meant  that  these  constitutions 
shall  be   as   varied  as    the   people   of   the 
different  provinces  may  see  fit  to  make  them; 


502 


nay,  there  are  even  left  to  the  people  of  the 
different  provinces  the  same  large  powers  for 
amending  them  afterwards.  To  be  sure 
there  is  the  grand  power  of  disallowance  by 
the  Federal  Government,  which  we  are  told, 
in  one  and  the  same  breath,  is  to  be  possessed 
Ly  it,  but  never  exercised. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gkn.  CARTIER— The 
presumption  is,  it  will  be  exercised  in  case 
of  unjust  or  unwise  legislation. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  hon.  gentleman's 
presumption  reminds  me  of  one,  perhaps  as 
conclusive,  but  which  Dickens  tells  us 
failed  to  satisfy  his  Mr.  Bumble.  That  hen- 
pecked beadle  is  said  to  have  said,  on  hearing 
of  the  legal  presumption  that  a  man's  wife 
acts  under  his  control: — ''If  the  law  pre- 
sumes anything  of  the  sort,  the  law's  a  fool 
— a  natural  fool!"  (Laughter.)  If  this 
permission  of  disallowance  rests  on  a  pre- 
sumption that  the  legislation  of  our  provinces 
is  going  to  be  uujust  or  unwise,  it  may  be 
neeced ;  but  under  that  idea,  one  might 
have  done  better  either  not  to  allow,  or  else 
to  restrict  within  narrower  limits,  such 
legislation.  If  the  promised  non-exercise  of 
the  power  to  disallow  rests  on  a  presumption 
that  all  will  be  done  justly  and  wisely  in  the 
provincal  legislatures,  the  legislative  power 
is  well  given  ;  but  then  there  is  no  need, 
on  the  other  hand,  for  the  permission  to 
disallow.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  repeat,  this 
system,  or  no-system,  aims  at  nothing  like 
uniformity  between  the  general  and  local 
constitutions,  or  between  the  local  constitu- 
tions themselves  ;  and  in  this  respect,  it  is 
essentially  at  variance  with  the  much  wiser 
system  adopted  in  the  United  States.  It 
further  allows  of  no  real  autonomy ;  in  fact, 
the  only  trace  of  uniformity  it  can  be  said  to 
have  about  it,  consists  in  its  disallowance  of 
all  autonomy  to  the  provinces.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Now,  let  me  take  up  those  few 
features  that  undoubtedly  are  given  to  us, 
as  characterizing  our  provincial  system.  Wide 
as  we  have  seen  the  latitude  is  which  the  pro- 
vinces may  take  in  framing  their  constitutions, 
there  are  a  few  matters  as  to  which  the 
system  lays  down  an  iron  rule.  There  is 
the  appoiutraenc  of  a  lieutenant-governor 
which  is  to  be  ves  od  in  the  General  Govern- 
ment. It  is  not  said  in  so  many  words  that 
he  is  to  be  a  colonist,  but  I  think  it  may  be 
taken  for  granted  that  he  will  be.  It  is  not 
very  likely  that  we  shall  get  any  right  hono- 
rable g'jntlcuian  or  euiinent  statesman,  from 
home,  to  come  out  here  for  an  appoiutment 
<rf  tli&t  kiiid  \  and  I  tak«  for  granted)  thoro- 


fore,  that  the  General  Government  will 
always  nominate  Mr.  Somebody  or  other,  of 
local  distinction,  to  this  office  of  lieutenant 
governor.  An  hon.  gentleman  opposite.  (I 
beg  his  pardon  for  noticing  his  gesture.) 
se.ms  never  to  have  had  the  thought  cross 
his  mind,  that  perhaps  if  he  were  named  to 
it,  there  might  be  a  doubt  in  some  quarters 
as  to  his  entire  fitness  for  it.  (^Hear,  hear.) 
But  seriously  these  lieutenant-governors 
thus  selected,  are  all  to  hold  office  by  a  very 
peculiar  tenure.  They  are  Lot  to  be  remov- 
able except  by  the  Federal  power ;  nor  by  it 
within  the  term  of  five  years,  except  for 
cause,  which  cause  must  be  stated  in 
writing,  and  laid  before  both  branches  of 
the  Federal  Parliament.  For  five  years, 
therefcjre,  they  may  be  said  to  hold  office 
during  good  behaviour.  They  are  to  be 
paid,  too,  by  the  Federal  power.  They  are 
to  exercise  the  reprieving  and  pirdoning 
power,  Fubject  to  such  instructions  as  they 
may  receive  from  the  General  Government 
from  time  to  time.  And  they  are  to  have 
the  initiation,  by  message,  of  all  money 
bills,  and  the  power  to  reserve  bills  foi  ap- 
proval of.  the  Federal  Government.  They 
are  to  ha-Te  these  leading  functions  of  the 
nominated  lieutenant  governors  under  our 
system,  but  with  one  most  marked  differ- 
ence—  the  attribute  of  non-removability. 
Beyond  these  few  points,  the  resolutions 
leave  us  all  at  sea.  Save  as  to  these,  they 
leave  room,  as  we  have  seen,  for  the  widest 
divergencies  of  constitution.  To  be  sure,  I 
gather  one  hint  more,  not  from  the  resolu- 
tions themselves,  but  from  the  dispatc  sent 
along  with  them  to  the  Colonial  Secretary, 
by  the  Governor  General,  and  this  is,  that 
according  to  the  view  of  our  Canadian  Gov- 
ernment, the  provincial  legislatures  had  bet- 
ter be  framed  on  the  one  chamber  principle. 
I  presume  this  will  hardly  be  gainsuyed  by 
the  honorable  gentlemen  who  have  laid  the 
dispatch  before  us,  and  which  supplies  this 
feature  that  we  cannot  find  in  the  resjlutions 
themselves.     Says  the  dispatch  : — 

For  the  purpose  of  looal  administratiou,  it  is 
[•roposed  to  have  in  each  province  au  executive 
olHcer,  to  be  api>oiuted  by  the  Governor,  and 
removable  by  hiui  for  cause  to  be  assijjuod, 
assisted  by  a  lej^islative  t)ody,  the  constitution  of 
which  it  is  proposed  to  leave  to  the  decision  of 
llie  present  local  le;,'islatures,  subject  to  the  appro- 
bation of  (he  .mperial  Government  and  Parlia- 
inont. 

But,  sir,  whether  our  local  legislatures  aro 
to  be  of  outi  houMG  or  t^o,  or  bo'w«vor  other* 


503 


wise  any  of  our  provinces  may  experiment, 
in   the  way    of  variation,   in  framing  their 
constitutions,  at  least  there  must  everywhere 
be  some  attempted   approach,  in  principle, 
to  one  or  other  of  the  two  great  divergent 
systems — the  British  on  the  one  hand,  with 
its   responsible  Cabinet — the  American,  on 
the  other,  without.     That  you  cannot  work 
the  problem    on    the   former    of  these   two 
plans,  I  will  show  presently.    For  the  latter, 
Mr.  Speaker,  in  the  States,  it  is  always 
carried  on  with  two  elective  houses,  never 
with  one,  and   with  an   elective  governor ; 
and  all  are   chosen  for  terms  that  are  not 
long.     It  could  not  be  made  to  work  other- 
wise.    An  appointed  governor,  holding  in- 
dependently, for  a  tern:  not  short,  and  above 
all,  with  only  one  House,  is  an  experiment 
as  new  and  unpromising  as  need  be.     For  a 
moment,  before  going  further,   I  revert  to 
the  principle  on  which  the  Federal  Execu- 
tive is  to  be  constituted.     We  are  promised 
there  a  cabinet,  responsible  after  the  British 
model,  and  strangely  and  anomalously  as  we 
have  seen  that  it  will  have  to  be  organized, 
in  sections  to  represent    our  provinces,  we 
must  understand  that  the  British  principle 
of  its  joint  responsibility  is  to  be  and  will 
be  carried  out.     But  it  is  of  the  essence  of 
responsible   government,   that  with   its   re- 
sponsibility  such  government  should  have 
power.     No  ministry  can  be  answerable  for 
the  entire  government  of  a  country,  unless 
it  has  the  power  to  control  in  some  way  or 
other,  and  to  the  requisite  extent,  the  course 
of  affairs.     If  Wf^  are  going  to  build  up  or 
suffer  in  the  country  any  power  too  strong  for 
it  to  deal  with,  it  will  cease  to  be  respon- 
sible.    It  must  be  able  to  overcome  opposi- 
tion, and   that  in  a  constitutional  manner. 
Yet,   according   to     this   scheme,   indepen- 
dently of  and  besides  all  the  difficulties  our 
sectionally-organized     Federal  Cabinet    will 
find  in  dealing  with  its  sectionally-organized 
Federal  Legislature,  it  is  to  have  these  pro- 
vincial governments    also,   to  embarrass   it. 
Let  these  last  be  what  you  will,  responsible 
or  republican,  or  some  of  theic  the  one  aud 
soaie  the  other,  so  soon  as  they  begin  to  act 
for  themselves,  so  soon  you  hn  ve  got  powers 
in  action   that   cannot   long   move  together 
without  clashing,  and  yet  neither  of  which 
can  overcome  the  other,  unless  by  practically 
destroying  it,  or  in  other  words,  by  revolu- 
tion.    (Hear,    hear.)     Whether   we   adopt 
one  system  or  another,  we  must  create  the 
proper  machinery  for  carrying  out  whatever 
system  we  adopt.     And  the  plain  truth  is, 


that  the  Federal  system  is  simply  inconsist- 
ent with  the  first  principles  that  must  pre- 
vail in  a   properly  organized  British  respon- 
sible   central   government.       (Hear,   hear.) 
Indeed,    aside    even   from    Federalism,    the 
British,    system    and     the    republican     are 
antagonist  in  principle  ;  neither  of  them  will 
work    mixed    up    with    the    other.      You 
must   be    content   with    one    or    other,  and 
must   not   commit    the   folly    ef  attempting 
any  new,  untried,  mongrel  system,  or  com- 
pound of  the  two — such  as  nobody  can  shew 
to    be    capable    of    being    worked    at    all. 
And    now,    Mr.  Speakeh,   let  us  just  fol- 
low out  the  course  of  our  distinguished  fel- 
low-colonist who  is  trying  to  govern  some 
one   of  our   provinces  under   this  proposed 
amalgamation  of  the  two  systems.     We  will 
suppose  him  a  most  admirably  fitted  person 
for  the  post,  the  functions  of  which  he  is  called 
upon  to  exercise;  but  he  must  necessarily 
have  one  or  two  causes  of  incapacitation,  so 
to  speak,  for  it.  When  Her  Majesty  appoints 
a  governor  to  come  out  to  Canada,  or  any 
other  colony,  she  is  presumed  by  every  one 
here   to  have    named    somebody  holding   a 
good  position  at  home,  and  somebody  against 
whom  no  one  in  the   colony  can  have  any 
ground  of  dislike.     He  comes  with  a  social 
rank  and  status  presumedly  higher  than  that 
of  the  people  whom  he  is  here  to  meet  with 
and  govern.     Every  one  is  disposed  to  re- 
cognise  in  him   the   representative   of  Her 
Majesty  ;  and  he  has  every  chance  of  main- 
taining himself  in  that  pleasant  attitude — 
that  of  administering  his  government  to  the 
satisfaction,  so  far  as  such  a  thing  is  pos- 
sible, of  all  parties.     In  adopting  the  views 
of  his  constitutional  advisers,  he  is  not  called 
upon  to  give  up  any  views  which  he  may 
himself  be  thought  to  entertain.     He   can 
express  to  the  people's  representatives  the 
views  of  bis  Cabinet,  whether  they  be  con- 
servative or  reform,  or  even  though  they  be 
conservative    this   session    and    reform    the 
next,  without  any  sacrifice  of  position,  no 
matter  what   his  own   political   views    may 
have   been   in  the    Mother   Country.      But 
suppose  any  of  our  politicians,  whether  of 
this  province  or  of  any  other  in  the  Con- 
federacy, say  Canada,  Newfoundland  or  Nova 
Scoiia,  to  be  assuming  this  r6le   of  lieuten- 
ant-governor in   any  of  our  provinces.     He 
has  this  disadvantage  to  begin  with ;  he  has 
to  that  moment  been  passing  through  that 
ordeal  of  abuse  under  which  every  prominent 
public  man  in  this  country  must  have  suf- 
fered before  attaining  any  distinction  what- 


504. 


ever.     (Hear,    hear.)     When   a   politician, 
Mr.  Speaker,  in  the  United  States,  who  is 
obnoxious  to  the  ill-will  of  any  large  body  of 
the  people,  is  there  elected  to  be  Governor 
of  his  state,  the  halo  of  his  election  sur- 
rounds him  with  a  something  of  political 
glory  that  throws  into  shade  any  stains  on 
his  political  reputation.  But  if  the  governors 
of  the  several  states  of  the  American  Union 
were  appointed  from   Washington,  do   you 
think  the  people   would   put   up  with  the 
results  of  such  appointment,  as  they  now  do 
with  those  of  their   own  choice;  when  they 
might  feel  that  the  man  was  even  a  despised, 
dishonest  man,  and  his  appointment  as  well 
an  insult  as  a  wrong  ?     Who  does  not  know 
that  our  chief  public  men  of  all  parties  have 
been  so  assailed,  as  to  be  held  at  this  moment 
at  a  painfully  low  value  by  the  large  section 
of  our  people  who  have  differed  from  their 
views  ?  I  do  not  say  that  they  have  deserved 
this   fate,  but  the  fact  is  undeniable    that 
they  have  met  it.     Let  any  one  of  our  dozen 
or  twenty  most  prominent  Canadian  politi- 
cians be  named  Lieutenant-Governor  of  Up- 
per or  tf  Lower  Canada,  would  not  a  large 
and   powerful   class   of  the   community   in 
either  case  to  be  governed,  be  very  likely  to 
resent  the  nomination  as  an  insult  ?     Do  not 
tell  me  that  we  are  entering  upon  a  new  era, 
that  all  such  things  are  passed  away,  that 
we  are  to  have  a  political   millennium,  by 
virtue  of  this  Conlederation  ?     Come  what 
may,  we  are  going  to  have  pretty  sharp  co'j- 
tests  for  place  and  power  in  the  future  as  in 
the  past.     No  matter  over   what  colony  ap- 
pointed, or  from  what  colony  coming,  a  lieu- 
tenant-governor will  have  hard  cards  to  play, 
and  will  have  very  much  to  pat  up  with  from 
the    people   over  whom   he    is  sot,  on   this 
mere  score   of  his   past   political    exploits. 
And  he  will  not  find  it  easy,  either,  to  get 
along  without  exciting  a   good  deal   of  ill- 
feeling,  as  he  goes.     He  has  been  known  as 
a  politician,  and  will  be  held  to  be  favorable 
or  unfavorable  to  this  or  that  party  in  the 
province  he  governs.     He  will  have  stepped 
into  po  jtion  as  a  statesman  of  the  Confeder- 
ation.    No  man  so  placed  will  be  able  to  blot 
the  record  of  his  pust,  or  deny  his  participa- 
tion in  this,  that  and  the  other  proceeding, 
which  his  opponent  may  choose  to  brand  as 
perhaps  next  to  criminal;  how  then  will  h.3 
be  able  to  hold  that  position  of  equilibrium 
between  political  parties,  which,  if  he  is  not 
to  fail  utterly  in  h\Hro/c  of  governor,  he  must 
maintain?  He  will  be   suspected,   watched, 
attacked;  vilified  ;  must  stick  by  friends  and 


punish  enemies ;  cannot  win  respect,  esteem 
and  sympathy,  as  a  stranger  might.    Nor  will 
he  be  free  from  another  source  of  embarrass- 
ment.    I  incline  to  think  there  will  be  a 
sort  of  distinction   between  the  two  classes 
of  politicians  to  grow  up  under  our  proposed 
Confederation.      There   will   be   tho.se  who 
will   aim    at  and  get  seats   in  the    Federal 
Legislature,  and  who   may  be  denominated 
the  senior  or  higher  class  of  our  politicians. 
It  will  be  from  this  class  that  men  will  get 
into   the   Federal  Executive   Council,  into 
high-caste   judgeships,   lieutenant-governor- 
ships,  and    other    high   places  of  the  new 
system — "  the  chief  seats  in  the  synagogue." 
The  lower  seats,    with  their  less  tempting 
prizes,  will   be  left  to  the  junior  or  lower 
class   of  our   politicians.     But   if  anything 
ever  so   little  like    responsible  government 
is  to  be  carried  out  in  the  provinces,  while 
the  lieutenant-governors  must  be  taken  from 
the  former  of  these  two  classes,  the  members 
of  any  cabinets  or  quasi-cabinets  that  they 
may  have  (not  to  say  their  provincial  Pre- 
miers even,  very  likely),  must  be  taken  from 
the  latter  class.  Do  you  mean  to  tell  me  that 
a  governor  chosen  from  among   our  politi- 
cians, of  what  I  may  call  high  caste,  will  put 
up  with  much  of  control  from  a  lot  ot  poli- 
ticians of   low    caste,  sitting   at    his    sham 
council  board  or  forming   his  sham  legisla- 
ture ':*     I  fancy  he  will  want  to  have — and 
will  be  held  by  his  people  to  be  wanting  to 
have — a  vast  deal  more  of  power  than  they 
will  like,  or  than  any  system  ever  so  little 
free  can  allow  of.     And  meantime,  what  of 
the  power  behind,  and  nominally  above  him 
— the  Federal  Executive — with  its  Premier, 
sections,  and  what  not  ?     Once  named,  he  is 
likely  to  feel  every  inch  a  governor  ;  might 
perhaps  run  round  to  the^Premier  and  Minis- 
try that  had   named  him,  and    tell   them  in 
effect,   though    probably    not   in    so    many 
words  :  "  I  am  here  and  you  are  there.     I 
shall   be  careful   not  to  give  you  sufficient 
cause  for  so  bold  a  step  as  my  dismissal,  but 
there  is  a  good  deal  I  can  do.     I  am  here  for 
five  years  ;  and  your  tenure  of  office  is  less 
certain."     He  may  be  drawn  into  this  atti- 
tude   by  differences    growing   up    between 
himself  and  them.     Or,  the  Federal  Cabinet 
may  so  change  its  composition  or  policy  as 
to  force  such  attitude  upon  him.     Why,  Mr. 
Speaker,    you    may  have    a    Lieutenant- 
Governor — say  of  Lower  Canada —  in  open 
quarrel  with  the  Premier  who  named  him,  or 
with  a  successor  of  such  Premier ;  the  two, 
may  be,  not  speaking  in  the  streets !    He  ha  ' 


505 


his  seat  for  five  years,  and  the  unfortunate 
Federal  Premier,  his  supposed  master, 
whose  views  do  not  agree  with  his,  may — 
A  3IEMBER— Whistle!  (Laughter.) 
Mr.  dun  kin — Yes,  may  whistle — may 
find  his  Lieutenant-Governor  counter-working 
him  in  Parliament,  in  the  Provincial  Legisla- 
ture, everywhere  ;  and  perhaps,  in  the  en- 
counter, may  catch  a  very  ugly  fall.  (Laugh- 
ter.) Mr,  Speaker,  let  me  once  again 
make  reference  to  Canadian  history.  Just 
before  the  union  of  the  Canadas,  and  after 
it,  the  late  Lord  Sydenham,  who  was  cer- 
tainly not  a  fool,  thought  ho  would  try  a 
political  experiment.  I  believe  he  made  no 
secret  of  its  being,  to  his  own  mind,  an  ex- 
periment, nor  yet  of  the  fact  that  he  did  not 
suppose  it  would  so  far  succeed  as  to  last 
long.  He  was  very  anxious  to  introduce 
into  Canada  a  municipal  system.  Well,  he 
tried  first  to  get  such  a  system  embodied  in 
the  Union  Act ;  but  he  failed  in  that.  He 
afterwards  got  his  enactment  passed  as  he 
wished,  for  Lower  Canada,  by  the  Special 


Council,  and  for  Upper  Canada  by  the  Ca- 
nadian Parliament  at  its  first  session.     That 
system  had  in   it  certain    features   of  this 
scheme  now  proposed  for  our  Confederation. 
Each   municipal    district    was    to    have    its 
warden  appointed  by  the  Grovernor  Greneral, 
and  to  have  its  elected  district  council,  or 
little  legislature  of  one  chamber.    The  powers 
of  that  little  legislature,  or  large  municipal 
body,  were  well  stated.     There  was  no  mis- 
take as  to  just  how  far  it  could  go.     The 
power  of  disallowing  by-lasvs  passed  by  it, 
and    also    that  of   nominating  the  warden, 
were  carefully  reserved  to  Government.  And, 
mind   you,  my  Lord    Sydenham   did  not 
make  the  blunder  of  letting  his   wardens 
hold   otherwise  than  during  pleasure.     He 
kept  in  his  own  hands  all   needed   control 
over  them;  and,  by  the  way,  he  kept,  too, 
what  was   mcst  material,  the   power  of  dis- 
solving any  refractory  conned,  in  the  hands 
of  Governmeut.    The  whole  thing  was  pieely 
arranged,  and  was  meant  to  work,  and  Lord 
Syd.  nham  probably  thought  it  would  work 
for  some  few  years,  and  that  then  the  dis- 
tricts would  outgrow  the  system,  and  elect 
their  own  wardens  and   pass  their  by-laws 
freely.     But,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  plan  never 
did    work    at    all,    neither     in    Lower    nor 
in    Upper    Canada.;    and    the    first    thing 
done     by     the     next    Par.iamenc     was    to 
sweep  it  all  away — nominated  wardens  and 
power    of     disallowing     by-laws     together. 
Everybody    saw   and    felt    that   it   was    a 
65 


real    power  and    not   a    sham,  that  was  so 
reserved  to  Government.     And  so  it  will  be 
in  this  case.     Your  Lieutenant-Governor  will 
be   felt   to  have    a  real    power,  not  a  sham 
one.      What  your  petty  districts  would  not 
put  up  with  five  and  twenty  years  ago,  your 
provinces  will  not  put  up  with  now.    Is  a  larger 
illustration  wanted  ?      One  comes  readily  to 
hand.    The  Imperial  Government  used  once  to 
try  the  experiment  of  sending  out  governors 
to  colonies  having  representative  institutions, 
without  instructing  them  to  pay  due  deference 
to  those  institutions,  and  it  led  to  a  most  la- 
mentable failure.      (Henr,  hear.)       Are  we 
going  to  try  to  work,  in  all  these  provinces,  a 
worse  system  than  that  which,  when  worked 
from  the  Colonial  Office  at  home,  resulted  in 
what  Lord  Durham  well  called  "constituted 
anarchy?"       If  we   are,   how  long  may  we 
count  on  putting  off  the  conflict  of  authority 
that  shall  end  in  a  complete  crash  of  the  en- 
tire fabric  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  But^  Mr.  Speaker. 
I  have  not  come  to  the  crowning  difficulties  of 
this  case,  even  yet.      Not  at   all.     Between 
the  states  of  the  United  States,  as  I  have  al- 
ready stated,  while  there  is  an  essential  iden- 
tity of  constitution,  there  is  at  the  same  time 
a  carefully  distinct  soparation  of  powers  and 
functions.       I  do  not  say  that  the  dividing 
line  is  drawn  exactly  where  it  should  be,  but 
that  there  is  a  distinct  dividing  line,  no  one 
can  gainsay.     But  how  do  we  stand  here,  Mr. 
Speaker,   as  to  the  attributes  of  our  own 


provincial  legislatures   and  government-,    on 
the  one  hand,  and  those  of  the  Federal  power 
on  the  other  ?      Do  we  follow  American  ex- 
ample, and  give  so  much  to  the  union  and  the 
rest  to   the  provinces ;  or  so  much  to  them, 
and  the  rest  to  it  ?      Either  rule  would  be 
plain  ;  but  this'plan  follows  neither.     It  sim- 
ply gives  us  a  sort  of  special  list  for  each ; 
making  much   common  to  both,    and  as  to 
much   more,    not   shewing    what  belongs   to 
either.     I  cannot  go  now — it  is  impossible  for 
me  at  this  hour  of  the  night  to   go — into  de- 
tail on  this  head.      I  can  give  no  more  than 
some  few  specimens  ;  and  I  take  first  the  three 
subjects  of  the  fisheries,  agriculture,  and  im- 
migration.    These  three  subjects  are  equally 
assio-ned  to  the  General  Legisliture  on  the  one 
hand,  and  the  Provincial  Legislature  on  the 
other.     It  is  provided  by  the  45th  resolution, 
that  in  all  such  cases,  wherever  any  statutes 
of  the  general  and  local    parliaments  clash, 
those  of  the   General  Parliament  shall  over- 
ride those  of  the   local.       So    that   in   these 
matters    of    the    fisheries,    agriculture     and 
immigration,     either    the    local 


must    not 


legislate 


legislatures 


at    all,  or    if    they  do 


506 


the  General  Legislature  may  at  any  time 
undo  anything  they  may  have  done.  One 
can  easily  foresee  any  amount  of  clashing 
of  authority  in  such  cases.  Fishery  regula- 
tions of  all  sorts  —  bounties  pei'haps  ;  the 
thousand  questions  affecting  agriculture.  Or 
to  take  just  one  that  suggests  itself  as  to  im- 
migration ;  one  province  wishes,  perhaps, 
to  encourage  immigration  of  a  certain  kind, 
say,  for  instance,  from  the  continent  of  Eu- 
rope. It  is  a  legitimate  wish  ;  but  the  Fed- 
eral Legislature  may,  perhaps,  in  the  varying 
shifts  of  public  opinion,  adopt  a  different 
policy,  and  reverse  all  that  the  province  may 
have  done.  To  what  end  give  powers  to 
the  local  parliaments  which  may  thus  be 
taken  away  at  any  moment  by  the  Federal 
Legislature  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, there  are  a  hundred  other  cases  as  to 
which  I  could  satisfy  the  House,  had  I  time 
for  doing  so,  that  more  or  less  of  this  confu- 
sion arises.  Take  the  subject  of  mai-riage 
and  divorce  for  one — a  subject  on  which  there 
is  a  great  deal  of  local  prejudice  and  feeling, 
and  into  which  even  religious  convictions 
largely  enter.  That  matter  is  given  to  the 
General  Legislature.     But  on  the  other  hand 


the  larger 


matter. 


,  civil  rights  —  of  which 
this  of  marriage  and  divorce,  from  one  point 
of  view,  forms  a  mere  part — is  given  to  the  lo- 
cal legislatures.  I  turn  to  another  matter,  hap- 
hazard— the  subjects  of  railway  legislation,  of 
railway  incorporation,  and  of  railway  amalga- 
mation. What  IjCgislature  lias  power  in  these 
matters  under  this  scheme  ?  I  am  not  sure  that 
tiiere  arc  not  here  as  nice  a  lot  of  pretty  little 
ijuestions  as  one  would  desire  to  see  in  a  sum- 
mer's day.  And  I  am  not  alone  in  the  matter  of 
this  criticism.  Her  Majesty's  Colonial  Secre- 
tary expresses  an  opinion,  rather  diplomati- 
cally, it  is  true,  but  still  an  opinion  on  this 
point ;  and  what  does  the  Colonial  Secretary 
say  ?— 

The  point  of  [)rincipal  importance  to  the  prac- 
tical well-working  of  the  scheme,  is  the  accurate 
detenninjition  of  the  hmils  between  the  authority 
of  the  central  and  that  of  the  local  legislatures 
in  their  relation  to  each  other.  It  has  not  henn 
possible  to  exclude  from  the  rcsolutiuiis  soiiio 
provisions  which  appear  to  be  less  coii.si.steut  than 
might,  perhaps,  have  been  desired  wiih  the  sim- 
plicity of  ihe  .system.  ]!ut,  upon  the  whole,  it 
appears  to  Her  .Majesty's  (iuvorameut  that  pre- 
cautions have  been  take:i  which  are  ol)vious!y  in- 
tended— ["  intended  j"  he  docs  not  say  "calcu- 
lated"]— which  are  obviously  intended  to  secure  to 
the  Central  (iovornmcMit  the  means  of  eircctive 
action  throughout  the  several  piuvi.iccs,  and  to 
guard  against  those  evils  which  must  inevitably 
arise  if  any  doubt  were  permitted  to  exist  as  to 


the  respective  limits  of  central  and  local 
authority. 

It  is  perfectly  plain  from  this  that  Her  Ma- 
jesty's Government  could  see  that  whatever 
may  have  been  the  intention,  there  has  been 
a  good  deal  of  short-coming  between  it  and 
the  execution.  (Hear,  hear.)  A  thing  is  not 
done  by  being  merely  intended.  I  will  take 
now  a  criticism  on  the  same  point  from  the 
Loudon  Times.  In  an  article  most  eulogistic 
of  these  resolutions  on  the  whole,  the  writer 
in  the  Loudon  Times  says — "  But  the  most 
important  clause  in  the  whole  resolutions,  and 
unfortunately  by  no  means  the  easiest  to 
understand,  is  the  one  which  defines  the 
powers  of  the  Central  Federal  Legislature." 
He  then  quotes  the  words  of  the  resolutions, 
and  goes  on  to  say  : — 

It  is  exceedingly  difficult  to  construe  these  pro- 
visions. First,  general  powers  of  legislation  are 
given  in  the  widest  terms  to  the  General  Parlia- 
ment; then  a  power  is  given  especially  to  make 
laws  on  thirty-seven  subjects,  one  of  those  being 
all  matters  of  a  general  character  not  ex^usively 
reserved  to  the  local  legislatures.  Nothing  is 
exclusively  reserved  to  the  local  legislatures,  and 
it  would  seem,  therefore,  that  the  eCFect  of  this 
clause  is  to  cut  the  power  of  central  legislalion 
down  to  matters  of  a  general  character — a  most 
vague  and  unsatisfactory  definition,  and  one  sure, 
if  it  be  retained,  to  produce  conflict  and  con- 
fusion. In  the  same  way,  what  are  matters  of  a 
private  and  local  nature  not  assigned  to  the  Gen 
eral  Parliament?  We  have  failed  to  discover 
any  matters  of  a  private  and  local  nature  which 
are  so  assigned,  and  therefore  the  power  will  be 
limited  by  the  M-ords  "private"'  and  "local,"  so 
that  the  effect  of  these  clauses  will  bo  that,  be- 
yond the  subjects  attributed  to  each.  th3  Central 
Legislature  will  have  jurisdiction  over  geueial 
matters,  whatever  they  are,  and  the  Local  Leglisla- 
ture  over  local  matters,  whatever  they  are  ;  while 
it  is  in  the  highest  degree  doubtful  what  the  courts 
Avould  consider  general  and  what  local, and  whether 
the  Central  Legislature  has  any  concurrent  juris- 
diction over  private  and  local  matters  or  no. 

The  writer  in  the  Times  goes  on  to  say — and 
I  have  great  respect  for  the  opinions  of  these 
writers  when  they  criticise  what  they  under- 
stand, though  I  have  none  whatever  for  them 
when  they  take  it  upon  tlieiusclvos  to  tell  us 
what  we  know  a  good  deal  better  than  they  : — 

TIk'sc  inaccuracies  are  probably  the  result  of  a 
succession  of  conijiromises,  and  we  can  do  no 
better  service  to  the  federative  movement  than 
by  thus  early  pointing  them  out.  The  resolu- 
tions ask  for  the  co-operation  ol'  the  Local  and 
imperial  Parliament.s  for  the  purpose  of  giving 
them  eilect,  and  we  have  no  doubt  th:tt  beloro 
they  assiimo  the  form  of  law  they  will  have  under 


507 


gone  consideration  and  scrutiny  fully  commensu- 
jate  to  their  importance. 

I  rather  think  this  writer  had  little  idea  of 
what  we  were  to  be  asked  to  do  !  He  little 
thought  that  there  was  not  a  word  of  alter- 
ation to  be  allowed  ;  that  these  resolutions 
were  to  be  laid  before  Parliament,  and  that 
Parliament  would  be  required  to  swallow 
them  at  once,  defects  and  all.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Wei!,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  have  stated  what,  in 
diplomatic  phrase,  are  the  views  of  Her  Ma- 
jesty's Government,  and  I  have  also  read 
those  of  the  leading  journal ;  and  now  I  desire 
to  quote  a  few  expressions  from  the  last  num- 
ber of  the  Edinburgh  Review.  The  Edinburgh 
Review  is  about  as  good  an  authority  as  can 
be  cited  on  a  question  of  this  kind,  for  its  ar- 
ticles are  never  li;rhtly  written. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— It  Ls  the  organ 
of  the  Liberal-Whig  party  in  Great  Britain. 

Mr.   DUNKIN — Certainly,   it  is  a  most 
important   and   influential    publication ;  and 
there  are  a  few  words  that  I  desire  to  quote 
from  Hn  article  it  contains  on  this   subject. 
The   article  is  in  the  last  or  January  number 
of  the  Review,  and  purports  to  be  in  commen- 
dation of  this  scheme.     After  giving  the  words 
of  the  resolutions  themselves  on  the  subject, 
and  especially'  their  residuary  legacy,  if  I  may 
so  call  it,  to  the  General  Legislature,  of  all  mat- 
ters of  a  general  character  not  specially  and 
exclusively  reserved  for  the  local  parliaments, 
this    probably    not    undistinguished     writer 
remarks — "Obviously  very  loosely  expressed  ; 
for  what  are  matters  of  a  general  character, 
and  who  is  to  decide  whether  a  matter  is  of  a 
general  character  or  not  ?     =f=     ^     We  should 
prefer  to  the  foregoing   enumeration    of  the 
powers  of  the  Federal  Parliament,    a  simple 
declaration  that  all   powers   are   given  to  it 
except  those  expressly  reserved  to  the  several 
members    of    tl.e    Confederation."      And  in 
another  part  of  the  same  article,  reverting  to 
the  same  subject,  we  have  these  words — '•'  And 
although  the  distinction  attempted  to  be  dra-^Ti 
between  general  and  local  matters  is  in  some 
respects    scarcely    traceable     in     the    draft 
minutes  of  the  Conference  " — Yes,  sir,  so  this 
writer  calls  them,  their  looseness  of  expression 
evidently  leading  him  to  take  them  for  some- 
thing far  short  of  the  solemnly  drawn  treaty 
they  are  now  set  up   for, — though  this    dis- 
tinction, says  he,  is  hardly  traceable  in  these 
draft  minutes,  '^Hhe  object  they  had  in  view  is 
sufficiently  clear  and  intelligible."     Perhaps 
so ;    or  perhaps  that  object  was   little  more 
than  to  give  people  to  understand  that  some- 
how or  other  the   General  Government  and 


Parliament  were  to  have  great  power,  and  the 
provincial  governments  and  parliaments  none 
too  much.  Any  way,  the  idea  is  very  like 
that  of  the  Colonial  Secretary's  despatch,  and 
the  two  run  rather  to  the  tune  of  the  left- 
handed  compliment  paid  Slender,  "  I  think 
my  cousin  meant  well." 

Hon.  J.   S.  MACDONALD— Quote  the 
concluding  part  of  the  article. 

Mr.   DUNKIN— I  shall   do  so    before  I 
sit  down,  if  my  strength  allows  me  to  com- 
plete my  argument.     I  pass  now  to  another 
matter,  as  to  which  further  capacities  for  con- 
flict are  very  well  laid  out  ior  us.     In  the 
framing  of   tlie   United   States  Constitution 
they  did  not  forget  to  provide  for  a  district 
of  Columbia,  for  a  territory  within  which  the 
power  of  Congress  and  the  General  Govern- 
ment was  to   be  perfectly  and  unmistakably 
supreme  for  all  purposes.     And  they  did  not 
forget  to   declare  that  the  powers,  legislative 
and  otherwise,  of  the  Federal  authority,  were 
to  be  complete  over  all  the  vast  territories 
belonging   to  the    nation,    and    over    all   its 
smaller  properties,    such   as    forts,    arsenals, 
dockyards  and  the  like.      We  have  nothing 
of  the  kind  here  ;  and,    at  least  as    regards 
the  seat  of  Government,  this  is  not  a  mere 
forget.     We  find  it  stated  that    "  The  seat 
of    Government  of   the    Federated    Provin- 
ces   shall  be    Ottawa,    subject  to   the  royal 
prerogative."     It  is  distinctly  laid  down  as  a 
part  of  our  system  that  the  royal  prerogative, 
the  right  to  change   the  seat  of  the  Federal 
Government  at  will,  is  to  be  maintained.    But 
I  venture  to  say  that  the  maintaining  of  that 
right  is  simply  inconsistent  with  the  practical 
working  out  of  a  Federal  system.     And  this 
is  a  matter  involving  a  good  deal  of  anomaly, 
as  honorable  gentlemen  will  see  when  they  be- 
gin to  think  of  it.     The  Governor  General  or 
Viceroy,  the  all  but  king  of  this  Confederacy, 
with  his  all  but  Imperial  Government,  and  all 
but  Imperial  Legislature,  constituted  no  mat- 
ter how,  resident  within  the  territorial  juris- 
diction of  a  subordinate  province !     The  po- 
lice  of  the   Federal  capital,  not  Federal  but 
provincial !   That  thing  won't  do.  The  framera 
of  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  knew 
it  would  not  do,  and  therefore  they  were  par- 
ticular to  give  power  to  their  General  Govern- 
ment to  acquire  and  hold  and  control  and  le- 
gislate for,  in  all  respects,  as  they  liked,  a  ter- 
ritory within  which  they  could  reign  and  rule 
and  have  no  subordinate  authority  over  them. 
We  have  not  got  to  Ottawa  yet,  but  suppose 
the  seat  of  Government  were  in  Ottawa — per- 
haps we  may  yet  get  it  there 


it  might  so 


508 


happen  that  some  Honorable  Premier  of  the 
Federal  Administration  may  nqt  be  on  speakinL' 
terms  with  the  Lieutenant-Governor  of  Upper 
Canada ;  or  at  least,  there  may  be  between 
them  the  most  decided,  thorough,  unmis- 
takably proclaimed  antagonism  of  views  and 
feeling.  It  is  easy  to  imagine  that  a  Premier 
in  that  position,  and  a  Lieutenant  Governor  in 
that  position,  could  between  thera  make  a 
Viceroy  very  uncomfortable  ;  and  that  the  re- 
sult might  be  the  bringing  up  of  a  great  many 
ticklish  questions  for  adjudication  by  the 
various  authorities.  It  is  clear  there  is  a  de- 
fect here,  which  might  lead  to  plenty  of 
trouble.  But  it  is  said — "  Oh  !  there  won't 
be  any  trouble ;  men  are  in  the  main  sensible, 
and  won't  try  to  make  trouble."  Well,  sir, 
if  this  is  so,  if  there  is  this  general  disposition 
to  be  sensible,  and  make  things  work  well,  I 
just  want  to  know  liow  we  come  to  have  had 
lour  crises  in  two  years  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  is  another  matter,  intimately  con- 
nected with  this,  to  which  also  I  must 
pass  on.  I  said  a  little  while  ago,  that 
the  United  States  system  was  one  of  ex- 
ceeding skill  as  regards  the  constitution  of  the 
judiciary.  De  Tocqieyille,  and  every  other 
writer  who  has  treated  of  the  United  States, 
has  awarded  it  this  praise ;  and  they  are 
right.  Each  state  has  its  own  judiciary;  and 
the  United  States  have  theirs ;  and  the  func- 
tions of  the  two  are  most  carefully  laid  down, 
so  that  no  serious  trouble  has  ever  arisen 
from  their  clashing.  The  judiciary  of  the 
United  States  is  undoubtedly  the  most  conser- 
vative and  strongest  bulwark  of  their  whole 
system.  (Hear,  hear.)  What  then  are  we 
going  to  do  on  this  head?  Just  as  we  have 
forgotten  all  about  difficulties  where  the  seat 
of  government  is  concerned,  so  here.  We 
are  not  quite  sure  whether  we  are  going  to 
have  any  distinctively  federal  judiciary  or 
UDt.  There  is  a  power  given  to  have  one — there 
may  be  one  ;  but  we  are  expressly  told  that 
perhaps  there  will  not  be.  But  what  are 
we  told  on  the  other  hand  ?  Oh,  there 
is  no  doubt  whatever,  according  to  the  re- 
solutions laid  before  us  —  no  doubt  what- 
ever— that  whether  we  have  a  Federal  judi- 
ciary or  not,  the  provincial  judiciaries  arc  to 
be  a  sort  of  joint  institutions.  And  a  very 
curious  kind  of  co-partnership  the  Federal 
Government  and  the  provincial  governments 
— the  Federal  Legislature  and  the  provincial 
legislatures — are  lluis  to  have  in  the  judicial 
institutions  of  the  country,  generally.  Ail 
the  courts,  juJges,  and  other  judicial  officers 
of  the  provinces  are  to  be,  for  all  manner  of 


federal  purposes,  servants  of  the  Federal 
Government.  There  is  an  old  saying,  "  No 
man  can  serve  two  masters."  But  all  these 
unfortunate  courts,  and  all  their  officers,  and 
specially  all  their  judges,  must  serve  two  mas- 
ters, whether  they  can  or  not.  All  the  Su- 
perior Court  judges — and,  in  L^^pper  Canada, 
the  judges  of  the  County  Courts — are  to  be 
named  and  paid  by  the  Federal  authority,  and 
:ire  only  to  be  removable  by  the  Federal  au- 
thority, on  a  joint  address  of  the  two  Houses 
of  the  Federal  Parliament.  But,  on  the  other 
hand,  the  provinces  are  to  constitute  the 
courts — (hear,  hear) — are  to  say  what  their 
functions  shall  be — what  the  number  of  the 
judges — how  they  are  to  perform  their  func- 
tions— are  to  give  them  more  work  or  less — 
to  make  their  work  pleasant  or  disagreeable, 
high  work  or  dirty  work,  as  they  like.  (Hear, 
hear.)  In  this  way  they  can  wrong  a  judge 
just  as  much  as  they  please ;  the  only  check 
on  them  being  the  power  of  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment to  disallow  their  legislation.  The 
Federal  Government,  forsooth,  nam^s  the 
judges,  and  pays  them,  and  alone  can  remove 
them.  Does  that  take  away  the  power  from 
the  local  parliaments  and  governments,  the 
power  to  change  the  constitution  of  the  court, 
to  change  it  in.  the  way  most  distasteful  to 
those  judges,  to  legislate  away  the  court  alto- 
gether, to  legislate  down  its  functions  in  such  a 
manner  as  may  drive  the  judge  to  resign  ? 
And  we  are  told  there  will  be  no  clashing  ! 
(Hear.)  I  have  no  doubt  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  East  thinks  he  could  manage  courts 
on  this  system ;  could  have  one  authority 
constituting  the  courts  and  another  naming 
and  removing  the  judges,  and  have  the  system 
work  harmoniously.  He  may  think  so.  I  do 
not.  I  am  satisUed  if  ever  the  scheme  is 
tried,  it  will  be  found  that  it  will  not  work. 
Human  nature  is  human  nature  ;  and  here  is 
a  first-rate  lot  of  matters  to  quarrel  over,  and 
to  quarrel  over  seriously.  Wliy,  there  is  even 
a  special  refinement  of  confusion  as  to  crimi- 
nal matters.  Criminal  procedure  i.s  to  bo 
federal ;  civil  procedure,  provincial ;  crimi- 
nal legislation,  proper,  is  to  be  federal ;  but 
with  a  most  uncertain  quantity  of  wli.it  one 
may  call  legislation  about  ponultio.><,  provin- 
cial ;  civil  rights,  in  the  main,  provinci:il ; 
but  with  no  one  can  tell  how  much  of  federal 
interference  and  over-rulinir,  and  all  with 
courts  provincial  in  constitution,  but  whoso 
judges  bold  by  federal  tenure  and  under 
federal  pay.  I  ])ity  the  poor  man  who  is  at 
once  a  criminal  judge  and  a  civil  judge.  Be- 
tween the  clashin"-  of  his  masters  and  the  clash. 


509 


ing  of  his  book  authorities,  lie  had  better  mind 
what  he  is  about,  with  the  painful  doubt  rising 
at  every  turn  whether  provincial  legislation 
may  not  be  overridden  by  federal  legislation. 
His  province  may  well  have  legislated  on  what 
it  holds  a  local  matter,  while  the  Federal  Par- 
liament may  have  legislated  on  it,  thinking  it 
a  federal  matter.  Anywhere  there  may  well 
be  some  bit  of  federal  legislation  contradict- 
ing something  in  a  looal  statute.  And  do  our 
resolutions  say  that  the  federal  statute  shall 
always  override  the  local  statute  ?  No,  only 
in  cases  where  there  is  concurrent  jurisdic- 
tion. And  yet  our  judge  who  is  to  decide  these 
nice  questions  is  paid  by  one  power  and  re- 
movable by  that  power,  and  may  have  his  func- 
tions taken  away  and  be  persecuted  to  the  death 
by  the  other.  He  will  have  a  bad  time  of  it. 
Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  have  so  far  been  deal- 
ing with  matters,  nearly  all  of  which  may  be 
said  to  be  general  to  every  part  of  this  great 
Confederacy  ;  but  now  I  must  ask  the  atten- 
tion of  the  House  for  a  few  moments,  to  some 
sources  of  misunderstanding  which  may  more 
particularly  make  trouble,  unless  human  na- 
ture ceases  to  be  human  nature  within  this 
Canada  of  ours.  There  are  in  Canada,  and 
especially  in  Lower  Canada,  the  two  differences 
of  language  and  faith ;  and  there  is  no  doubt 
that  the  real  reasons  which  have  rendered, 
or  are  supposed  to  have  rendered  necessary 
this  plan  of  a  sort  of  Federal  Government, 
are  referable  to  this  fact.  This  machinery  is 
devised,  on  purpose  to  meet  a  possible  or  pro- 
bable cliishing  of  races  and  creeds  in  Canada, 
and  particularly  in  Lower  Canada.  Now,  in 
the  United  States,  when  their  constitutional 
system  was  adopted,  the  framers  of  it  must 
have  foreseen,  of  course,  that  controversy 
would  arise  on  the  subjects  of  state  rights 
and  slavery.  There  was  a  jealousy  be- 
tween the  small  states  and  the  large,  and 
the  commencement  of  a  dissent  between  the 
Northern  and  the  Southern  States  of  the  re- 
public. There  was  undoubtedly  a  foresha- 
dowing of  trouble  on  the  subject  of  slavery, 
though,  by  the  way,  slavery  was  to  all  ap- 
pearance dying  out  rapidly  in  the  Northern 
States,  not  so  rapidly  in  the  Southern.  How, 
then,  did  the  framers  of  that  Constitution  un- 
dertake to  deal  with  these  foreseen  troubles, 
these  questions  of  state  rights  and  slavery  ? 
Sir,  they  did  all  they  possibly  could  to  keep 
both  out  of  sight — to  bury  them — that  they 
might  not  rise  up  in  the  future  to  give  trou- 
ble. It  is  true  that  in  so  doing  they  but  buried 
the  dragon's  teeth,  and  that  these,  all  buried 
as  they  were,  have  yet  since  sprung  up,  armed 


men  ;  but  so  far  as  they  could,  they  kept  them 
down,  kept  them  from  growing,  prevented 
recognition  of  them  at  that  time  and  for  long 
after.  Weil,  how  are  we  going  to  carry  out 
this  scheme  of  ours  ?  Are  we  burying,  or  are 
we  of  set  choice  sowing,  our  dragon's  teeth  ? 
Are  we  trying  to  keep  our  difficulties  out  of 
the  way,  to  bury  them  out  of  sight,  that  we 
may  smooth  our  way  for  the  future  lessening 
of  them  ?  I  think  not.  On  the  contrary, 
we  are  setting  ourselves  as  deliberately  as  we 
well  can  to  keep  up  the  distinctions  and  thedif- 
erences  which  exist  among  us,  to  hold  them 
constantly  in  everybody's  sight — in  the  hope, 
I  suppose,  that  while  everybody  is  looking  at 
them  intently,  somehow  or  other  no  one  may 
see  them  at  all.  (Laughter.)  In  the  United 
States,  be  it  remembered,  they  started  with 
their  states  sovereign  and  independent.  From 
that  they  went  into  their  system  of  confed- 
eration, which  was  a  great  improvement ;  and 
from  that  they  went  on  into  their  present 
federal-national  constitution.  At  each  step 
they  were  moving  to  limit  state  rights,  and 
also,  indirectly,  the  extent  and  influence  of 
slavery.  It  is  true  they  did  not  altogether 
succeed  in  this  policy,  but  their  want  of  suc- 
cess has  been  mamly  owing  to  circumstances 
over  which  they  could  exercise  no  control. 
We  in  Canada,  for  the  last  twenty-five  years, 
have  been  legislatively  united,  and  we  have 
worked  that  union  in  a  federal  spirit.  We 
complain  that,  as  a  result  of  this,  the  dis- 
tinctions which  exist  among  us  have  become 
so  prominent — the  truth  being,  that  it  is 
rather  this  proposed  change  which  is  suddenly 
bringing  them  into  startling  prominence — 
we  have  worked  that  union,  however,  I  say, 
in  a  federal  spirit,  and  it  is  said  to  have 
produced  or  aggravated  a  certain  state  of 
feud  amongst  us ;  and  now,  for  the  purpose 
of  perpetuating  this  state  of  feud,  we  are 
going  to  effect  a  professedly  Federal  union 
which  is  even  expressly  recommended  to  us, 
or  to  many  of  us,  as  meant  and  calculated  to 
be  so  worked  as  to  amount,  for  all  practical 
purposes,  to  disunion.  Under  it  Lower 
Canada  has  all  sorts  of  special  exceptions 
made,  as  the  phrase  runs,  in  her  favor.  The 
Legislative  Council  is  to  be  named  in  a 
peculiar  manner,  so  fcir  as  its  members  from 
Lower  Canada  are  concerned.  The  other 
provinces  may  have  their  laws  made  uniform, 
but  an  exception  in  this  respect  is  made  for 
Lower  Canada,  and  as  if  to  make  it  apparent 
that  Lower  Canada  is  never  to  be  like  the  rest 
of  the  Confederation,  it  is  carefully  provided 
that    the    General   Parliament   may    make 


510 


uniform  the   laws   of    the   other  provinces 
only — that  is    to  say,  provided   those    pro- 
vinces consent  to  it,  but  by  inference  it  can- 
not extend  this  uniformity  to  Lower  Canada, 
not  even  if  she  should  wish  it.     Supposing, 
even,  that  the  other  provini-.es  were  to  desire 
to  adopt  our  Lower  Canadian  system,  accord- 
incr  to  the  letter   of  this   Constitution,  one 
would   say  they  cannot  do   it.     They  may 
become    uniiorm    among    themselves,    but 
Lower  Canada,  even  though  her  people  were 
to  wish  it,  must  not  be  uniform  with  them. 
Again,  as  to  education,  exceptions  of  some 
sort  are  to  be  made  in  Lower  Canada,  and 
indeed  in  Upper  Canada  too,  though  no  one 
can  tell  to  what  extent  these  exceptions  are 
or  are  not  to  be  carried.     Thus,  in  one  way 
and  another.  Lower  Canada  is  to  be  placed 
on  a  separate  and  distinct  footing  from  the 
other    provinces,    so     that     her     interests 
and     institutions     may     not     be    meddled 
with.       I    say    this    system,    as    a    whole, 
and   these  peculiarities    and    exceptions   in 
regard  to  Ijower  Canada,  are  adopted  with  a 
special  view  to  remedy  our  Canadian  difficul- 
ties of  race  and  creed.     But,  sir,  this  is  no  way 
at  all  of  avoiding  or  lessening  trouble  from 
this  cause.     It  is  idle  to  pretend  that  by  this 
system  collision  is  going   to   bo  prevented. 
Under  the  legislative  union  of  the  Canadas, 
even  worked  as  it  has  been,  the  ti'udency  of 
the  minorities  in  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
respectively,  has  been  towards  the  mainten- 
ance of  the   union — towards   the  avoidance 
of  all  intemperate   language  and  prejudiced 
feelings — tuwards  the  pulling  down  of  the 
feuds    that    bcfure    divided    them   and    the 
respective   majorities.     And  the  result  has 
been,     that    while  just    before     the    union 
the  feud  between  the  races  in  Lower  Canada 
was  at  iis  highest  and  bitterest  point,  it  has 
since  then  all   but  disappeared.     The  com- 
plaint of  Upper  Canadian  politicians  has  been 
that  they  could   not  set   the    British    and 
French  races  in  Lower  Can:ida  by  the  ears, 
that  they  could  not  get  the  former,  cither  as 
British   or  as  Protestants,  to  join  with  them 
in  a  crusade  against  the  Lower    Canadian 
nmjority. 

Mil.  A.  .MACKENZIE— AVho  made  that 
complaint  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  do  not  say  that  it  has 
been  said  in  words,  but  it  has  been  in  spirit. 
Mr.  a.  MACKExN'ZIE— No,  do.    (Hear, 
hear.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Yes;  the  complaint  has 
been  made,  perhaps  not  in  that  particular 


form,    but    certainly   in    that    spirit.       The 
British  of  Lower  Canada  have   been  again 
and  again  told  they  were  worse  than  tiieir 
French  neighbors,  for  not  casting  in  their  lot 
with  the  people  of  Upper  Canada.     (Hear, 
hear.)     Well,  iMr.  Speaker,  undoubtedly, 
before  the  union.  Lower  Canada,  as  I  have 
said,  was  the  place  where   the  war  of  races 
was  at  its  height ;  and  that  wir  of  races  did 
not  nearly  cease  for  a  number  of  years  after. 
But  the  strife  did  very  gradually  I'^.s^en,  and 
a  better  and   more   friendly  feeling  has  for 
some  time  j)rcvailed,  in  both  camps.     Indeed, 
there  has  been  a  more  tolerant  state  of  leel- 
iug    in    both    camps,    than     in    any    other 
community  so  divided  as  to  race  and  creed, 
that  I  know  of.     But  the  moment  you  tell 
Lower     Canada     that     the     large-suunding 
powers    of  your   General    Government   are 
going   to    be    handed  over    to    a    British- 
American    majority,    decidedly   not   of   the 
race  and  faith  of  her  majority,  that  moment 
you  wake  up  rhe  old  jealousies  and  hostility 
in   their   strongest     form.       By    the    very 
provisions  you  talk  of  for  the  protection  of 
the  non-French  and  non-Catholic  interests, 
you  unfortunately  countenance  the  idea  that 
the  French  are  going  to  be  more  unfair  than 
I  believe  they  wish  to  be.     For  that  matter, 
what  else  can  they  well  be  ?     They  will  find 
themselves  a  minority  in  the  Gen  .ral  Legis- 
lature,   and    their    power    in    the    General 
Government  will  depend  upon  their   power 
within   their  own   province  and  over  their 
provincial  delegations  in  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment.     They   will  thus  be  compelled  to  be 
practically  aggressive,  to  secure  and  retain 
that  power.      They  may  not,  perhaps,  wish 
to  be;  they  may  not,  perhaps,  be  aggressive 
in  the  worst  sense  of  the  term. — I  du  not  say 
that   they   certainly   will  be ;  but  whether 
they  arc  or  not,  there  will  certainly   be  in 
this  system  the  very  strongei^t  tendencies  to 
make  them  practically  aggressive  upon  the 
rights  of  the  minority  in  language  and  faith, 
and  at  the  same  time   to  make   the  minority 
most  suspicious  and  resentful  of  aggression. 
The  same  sort  of  alienation,  as  between  the 
two  faiths,  will  be  goit)gon  iu  U[  per  Canada. 
Note  of  warning  is  already  given    by  this 
scheme,  to  both   parties,   that  they   })repare 
for   fight;  and   the  indications,   1    regret  to 
say,  are  that  such  note  of  warning  is  not  to 
bo   given    in    vain.       (Hear,    hear.)      The 
prejudices  of  the  two  camps   are  once  more 
stirred  to  their   depths;  and  if  this  scheme 
goes   into  operation,  they  will  separate  mare 


511 


and  more  widely,  and  finally  break  out 
into  open  war,  unless,  indeed,  it  shall  work 
very  differently  from  what  any  one  can  now 
imagine.  If  provincial  independence  is  to 
be  crushed  down  by  a  General  Government 
careless  of  local  majorities,  then  you  will 
have  this  war.  Or,  if  on  the  other  hand, 
the  policy  of  the  Federal  Executive  should 
be  to  give  eifect  to  the  aggregate  will  of  the 
several  local  majorities,  at  whatever  sacrifice 
of  principle,  still  then  you  will  have  this 
war.  The  local  minorities — threatened  with 
elimination,  in  their  alarm  and  jealousy, 
will  be  simply  desperate,  ready  for  any  out- 
break of  discontent  at  any  moment.  Take  a 
practical  case.  Suppose  the  rule  adopted, 
of  not  having  an  Executive  Council  inconve- 
niently large,  Lower  Canada,  as  we  have 
seen,  can  then  only  have  three  members  of 
it;  and  if  all  these  three  are  French-Cana- 
dians— as  thev  almost  must  be,  because  the 
i''rcnch  cannot  put  up  with  less  than  three 
out  of  twelve — how  will  not  the  Irish  Catho- 
lics and  the  British  Protestants  feel  them- 
selves aggrieved  ?  You  cannot  help  it. 
They  must  in  that  case  feel  deeply  aggrieved, 
and  so  feeling,  they  will  cause  troubles.  The 
Irish  Catholics  will  be  told,  I  suppose,  "  Ch, 
you  will  have  an  Irish  Catholic  member  of 
ilie  Government  to  look  to  from  Newfound- 
hiud  ;"  aiid  if  so,  they  will  have  to  guide 
themselves  by  some  sort  of  Irish-Catholic 
Newfoundland  rule  of  policy,  and  not  by  any 
rule  ever  so  little  savoring  of  a  regard  for 
larger  or  higher  principle.  The  British 
^'rutestants,  in  their  turn,  will  be  told  :  "You 
have  a  mnjurifcy  of  your  own  tongue  and 
faith  irom  Upper  Cauada  and  the  Lower 
Provinces ;  you  must  be  content  with  that, 
and  look  to  their  members  of  the  Government 
for  such  care  as-  you  may  need  in  the  matter 
of  your  affairs."  "  Oh,  we  must,  must 
we  !"'  will  be  the  answer ;  "  then  we  will 
square  our  conduct,  not  by  any  rule  for 
jiritish  America  or  even  Lower  Canada, 
but  by  the  shifting  exigencies  of  preju- 
dice or  passion,  whatever  they  may  be,  in 
upper  Canada  and  your  Lower  Provinces." 
(^llear,  hear.)  These  discontented  elements 
in     Lower     Canada,   depend    upon    it,    will 


creaic     no    small    confusion  ;    and 


amon<j; 


those  thus  driven  into  making  trouble,  there 

will  be  not  a  lew  whose  preferences  will  even 
be  American,  and  who  will  appeal  to  outside 
influences  for  protection.  Such  will  be  the 
legitimate  eiiect  of  this  systcui ;  and  if  any 
000  t-lls  me  that  it  will  be  conducive  to  the 


peace  and  good  government  of  this  country, 
I  say  he  prophecies  in  a  way  that  I  cannot 
understand.  Thank  God,  Mr.  Speaker,  I 
do  not  need,  as  I  stand  here,  to  defend  my- 
self from  any  charge  of  bigotry  as  against 
any  sect  or  party.  There  was  a  time  in  Ca- 
nada when  it  was  most  difficult  for  any 
person  who  spoke  my  tongue  to  stand  up 
and  say  that  the  French-Canadians  ought 
not  to  be  politically  exterminated  from  the 
face  of  the  earth.  I  stood  out  steadfastly 
against  that  doctrine  then.  I  remember 
well  the  painful  events  of  that  sad  time. 
I  foresee  but  too  distinctly  the  fearful 
probability  there  is  of  that  time  coming 
again,  through  the  adoption  of  these  reso- 
lutions. And  I  do  not  shrink  from  the 
danger  of  being  misunderstood  or  misrepre- 
sented, when  I  now  stand  up  here  and  warn 
the  country  of  this  danger.  If  trouble  of 
this  sort  ever  arises,  it  is  one  that  will  ex- 
tend very  rapidly  over  the  whole  Confederacy. 
In  all  parts  of  it,  in  every  province,  there 
are  minorities  that  will  be  acted  upon  by 
that  kind  of  thing.  In  the  Lower  Provinces, 
and  in  Newfoundland,  things  ai'e  but  too 
ripe  for  the  outburst  of  hostilities  of  this 
description.  Talk,  indeed,  in  such  a  state  of 
things,  of  your  founding  here  by  this  means 
"  a  new  nalionality  " — of  your  creating  such 
a  thing — .of  your  whole  people  here  I'allying 
round  its  new  Government  at  Ottawa.  Mr. 
Speaker,  is  such  a  thing  possible  ?  We 
have  a  large  class  whose  national  feelings 
tarn  towards  London,  whose  very  heart  is 
there ;  another  large  class  whose  sympathies 
centre  here  at  Quebec,  or  in  a  sentimental 
way  may  have  some  reference  to  Paris;  an- 
other large  class  whose  memories  are  of  the 
Emerald* Isle;  and  yet  another  whose  com- 
parisons are  rather  with  Washington ; 
but  have  we  any  class  of  people  who  are 
attached,  or  whose  feelings  are  going  to  be 
directed  with  any  earnestness,  to  the  city 
of  Ottawa,  the  centre  of  the  new  untionality 
that  is  to  be  created  ?  In  the  times  to 
come,  when  men  shall  begin  to  feel  strongly 
OQ  those  questions  that  appeal  to  national 
preferences,  prejudices  and  passions,  all 
talk  of  your  new  nationality  will  sound  but 
strangeljr.  Some  other  older  nationality  will 
then  be  found  to  hold  the  first  place  in 
most  people's  hearts.  (Hear,  hear.)  Mr. 
Speaker,  it  is  only  right  that  I  should 
state  to  the  House  that  I  have  not  reached 
within  a  long  distance  of  the  point  which  I 
had  hoped  to  reach  before  sitting  down ;  but 


512 


I  feel  compelled  to  ask  the  indulgence  of 
the  House,  from  my  strength  being  insuffi- 
cient to  bear  me  through.     (Cheers.) 

The  debate  was  then  adjourned,  Mr. 
DuiVKiN  having  the  floor  again  for  to- 
morrow. 


LEGISLATIVE     COUNCIL. 


Tuesday,  February  28,  1865. 

Hon.    Mr.    CAMPBELL— Before    the 
House  rises,  I  desire  to  submit  a  statement 
of  the  revenue  of  the  Island  of  Prince  Ed- 
ward, which   has  come  into  my  hands  since 
the  close  of  the  debate  on  the  proposed  union 
of  Canada  and  the  Lower  Provinces.     The 
hon.  member   for  Niagara  seemed  to   take 
exception  to  what  I  said  in  relation  to  that 
pyrticulai   point,  and  I  am  therefore  happy 
to  be  able  to  satisfy  the  hon.  member  that 
what  I  then  stated  is  fully  sustained  by  the 
authentic  return  now  before  me.     I  hold  in 
my  hand  a  "  Report  of  the  Comptroller  of 
Customs   and   Sundry  Statistics "    of    that 
colony  for  the  year  18G3,  which  shows  that 
the  total  revenue  of  the  island  for  that  year 
was  £61,688  14s.  4d.,  island  currency,  equal 
to  £-41,125  IGs.   3d.,  sterling,  an   increase 
over  the  previous  year  of  nearly  35  per  cent. 
The  hon.  member  seemed  to  think  it  impos- 
sible that  such  a  sum  as  I  had  stated  should 
have  been  raised,  and  suggested  that  a  great 
part  must    have  come    from   local  sources. 
Weil,  the   amount  derived  from  excise   and 
duties  on  imports  for  1863  was  £46,057  Gs. 
7d.,   island   currency,   from   the  post   office 
£1,590,  and  from  custom  house  office  fees, 
£71   9s.  9d.  ;    together  £47,718   16s.   4d., 
island  currency,  or  about  £32,000,  sterling, 
equal  to   §156,000   or  thereabouts.     There 
are  a  good  many  other  items  of  revenue,  but 
I  have  selected  these  three,  as  those  certain 
to  come  into  the  treasury  ot  the   General 
Government,  and  there  miiy  be  others.     But 
it  will  be  seen  that  these  alone  would  make 
up   tiie  sum   I  gave   as  the   revenue  of  the 
island,  which   would    be    available    for    the 
f.>eneral  purposes  of  the  Confederation. 

Hon.  iMii.  CUllRIE — I  did  nut  question 
the  correctness  of  the  figures  of  the  Honor- 
able Comn.issioncr  of  Crown  Lands;  but  1  felt 
and  expressed  s(;uie  surpris-e  at  the  sum, 
which,  when  compared  with  former  years, 
exhibited,  as  I  thought,  an  almost  incredible 


increase.  "Will  the  Honorable  Commissioner 
state  what  proportion  of  these  imports  was 
foreign,  and  what  came  from  the  provinces  it 
is  proposed  to  unite,  as  after  the  union  no 
revenue  would  of  course  be  derived  from  the 
Htter  ** 

Hon.  Mr.  CAMPBELL— There  are  ta- 
bles  shewing  the  imports  and  exports,  and 
the  imports  from  the  following  places  were 
in  1863  :— 

United  Kingdom £122,880     5  6^ 

Nova  Scotia 66,890  11  5^ 

New  Brunswick 19,975     3  11 

Newfonndland 1,866  15  3 

Bermuda  and  West  Indies 3,969     5  7 

Saint  Pierre 292  11  3 

Canada 6,152     8  3 

Macdalene 302     3  0 

United  Stateo 71,103     0  8 

Total,  sterling - .  £293,431     4  1 1 

Taking  from  the  iibove  the  imports  from 
Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  Newfound- 
land and  Canada,  amounting  to  £94,883  18s. 
lOd.,  the  balance  of  nearly  £200,000  was 
all  foreign,  and  such  as  would  pay  duty  to 
the  General  Government.  The  exports  were 
£209,472  9s.  6d,  to  which  was  to  be  added 
the  value  of  24,991  tons  of  shipping  built  in 
the  island,  which  at  £5  sterling  per  ton,  was  . 
equal  to  £124,955,  and  raised  the  credit  side 
of  the  sheet  to  £334,427  9s.  6d.,  against 
£293,431  4s  lid  to  the  debit  side,  thus 
shewing  a  balance  in  favor  of  the  colony  in 
1863  of  £40,996  4s.  7d.    '.Hear,  hear.) 

[The  honorable  member  here  handed  the 
report  to  the  Hon.  Mr.  CuRRlE,  who,  alter 
having  examined  it,  seemed  to  concur  in  the 
statement  of  the  Hon.  Commissioner  of 
Crown  Lands.] 


LEGISLATIVE  ASSEMBLY, 


TUKSDAY,  Fthrwirt/  28,  1865. 

Mu.  LUNKIN,  continuing  his  speech 
from  yesterday,  said — Mr.  Speaker,  wlieu 
the  kindness  of  the  House  permitted  me  to 
resume  my  t^cat  last  evening,  I  was  comparing 
the  constitutional  system  of  the  proposed 
Confederacy  with  the  Constitution  of  the  Unit- 
ed States  primarily,  :ind  with  that  of  Groat 
Ihitain  secondarily.  1  h:id  gone  over seviral 
leading  points  of  comparison  ;  and  it  will  be 
in  the  recollection  of  the  House,  uo  doubt, 


513 


that  1  had  compared  the  composition  of  our 
proposed  House  of  Commons  with  that  of 
the  House  uf  Representatives  of  the  United 
States  J  and  I  endeavored  to  shew,  and  I 
think  I  had  shewn,  that  we  were  departinjr 
altogether  from  the  principles  upon  which 
the  British  Huuse  of  Commons  is  constituted, 
and  taking  up  mul  cL propos,  ani  unl'or 
tunatelj,  the  least  inviting  features  of  the 
composition  of  the  American  House  of 
Representatives.  Ic  is  proposed  to  adopt 
here  a  plan  which  has  a  direct  tendency  to 
place  on  the  fl.or  of  our  House  of  Commons 
a  number  of  provincial  delegations,  and  not  a 
number  of  independent  members  of  parlia- 
ment. The  tendency  is  therefore  towards  a 
system  antagonistic  to,  and  inconsistent 
with,  those  principles  on  which  the  British 
Consiitutioa  reposes.  With  provincial 
delegations,  rather  than  members  of  parlia- 
ment, on  the  floor  of  the  Federal  Legislature, 
we  are  not  likely  to  have  that  political 
longevity,  whether  of  men  or  parties,  with- 
out which  the  British  system  of  government 
can  hardly  exist.  turning  then  to  the 
liogisktive  Council,  and  comparing  its 
constitution  with  that  ot  the  Senate  of  tiie 
United  States  —  the  principles  governing 
the  iormer  are  diametrically  opposite  to  thvse 
ou  which  the  latter  is  founded.  The  Senate 
of  the  United  States  forms  an  excellent 
federal  cneck  upon  the  Huu^e  of  Represent- 
atives, partly  owing  to  the  way  in  wnich  it 
is  constituted,  and  partly  on  account  of  the 
powers  given  to  it,  and  which  are  not  pro- 
posed to  be  given  to  our  Legislative  Council. 
All  that  can  be  said  of  it  is,  that  it  is  pro- 
posed to  be  constituted  upon  almost  the 
worst  principles  taat  could  have  b>.en  adopt- 
ed. It  seems  as  if  it  were  so  constituted  for 
the  mero  purpose  ol  leading  to  a  dead-lock. 
Vhe  members  of  it  are  not  to  represent  our 
provinces  at  ail,  but  are  to  be  named  by  the 
Federal  power  itself,  tor  life,  and  in  numbers 
to  constitute  a  pretty  numerous  body,  but 
without  any  of  tlie  peculiar  functions  wisely 
assigned  to  the  Senjte  of  the  United  Status. 
In  fact,  the  federal  battle  that  must  be 
fought  will  have  to  be  fought  in  the  House 
of  Commons  and  in  the  Executive  Cuuncil, 
very  much  more  than  in  the  Legislative 
Council.  iurning  then  to  the  Executive 
Council,  I  had  shown  that  it  is  a  necessary 
consequence  of  the  proposed  system,  that 
we  are  to  have  not  merely  a  House  of  Com- 
mons cut  up  into  sections,  but  also  an  Exe- 
cutive Council  cut  up  in  the  same  unfortu- 
nate way.  You  can  get  nothing  else  in  the 
66 


nature  of  a  real  federal  check.  Your  federal 
problem  will  have  to  bo  wjrked  out  around 
the  table  of  the  Executive  Council.  But 
this  principle,  which  must  enter  into  tbe 
formacion  ot  the  Executive  Council,  is  clear- 
ly inconsistent  with  the  principle  ol  the 
British  Constitution,  which  holds  the  whole 
Cabinet  jointly  responsible  for  every  act  of  the 
Government.  In  our  present  union  of  the 
Canadas,  we  have  latterly  gone  upon  the 
plan  of  having  almost  two  ministries.  The 
plan  urged  upon  our  acceptance  purposes 
the  experiment  of  six  or  more  sections  in 
the  Executive  Council,  inste.id  ot  the  two 
that  we  have  found  one  too  many  Among 
the  difficulties  that  will  grow  out  of  that 
plan  is  this,  the  absolute  necessity  of  either 
having  an  Executive  Council  that  will  be  ridi- 
culously too  numerous,  or  else  one  that  will 
represent  the  different  pi'ovinces  in  sections 
entirely  too  small.  From  this  comparison 
of  these  three  leading  features,  I  had  passed 
on  to  consider  the  relations  of  the  Federal 
Government  with  the  several  provinces, 
comparing  them  with  the  relations  subsist- 
ing between  the  United  Slates  Government 
and  the  governments  of  the  several  states  of 
the  American  Union.  The  sevaral  states  oi 
the  neighboring  republic  commenced  their 
existence  as  states  with  all  their  constitu- 
tions Constructed  on  the  sam^  general  plan 
as  that  of  the  United  States,  and  in  fact  the 
same  republican  principles  uuaeriie  all  their 
governmental  institutions,  municipal,  state 
and  federal.  But  it  is  here  proposed,  that 
while  we  are  to  start  with  a  system  of  gen- 
eral government,  part  British,  part  republi- 
can, part  neither,  it  is  to  be  an  open  ques- 
tion, left  to  the  decision  of  each  separate 
province,  what  kind  of  local  constitution  is 
to  be  constructed  for  itself.  Each  province 
must,  of  course,  have  an  elective  chamber, 
but  as  to  a  second  ctiamber,  that  is  to  be  as 
each  local  legislature  may  see  fit.  Some, 
probably,  will  have  it  elective,  while  others 
muy  dispen  e  with  it  entirely.  Then,  looking 
to  the  appointment  of  th»  lieutenant-gov- 
ernors, and  the  tenure  by  which  they  are  to 
hold  office,  it  becomes  about  as  clear  as  day  t  hat 
you  cannot  carry  on  responsible  government 
in  the  provinces,  but  must  have  in  them  all 
a  system  that  is  neither  British  nor  repub- 
lican, and  that,  I  believe,  will  be  found  to 
be  totally  unworkable.  Turning  to  the 
assignment  of  powers  to  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment on  the  one  hand,  and  the  local  or 
provincial  governments  on  the  other,  we 
meet  again   with  the  unhappy  conti-ast,  be- 


514 


tween  the  wisdom  displayed  on  that  point 
in  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States, 
and  the  lack  of  wisdom  in  the  arrangement 
proposed  fur  adoption  here.  There  is,  in 
the  United  States'  svstem,  a  clear  and  dis- 
tinct  line  drawn  between  the  functions  of 
the  general  and  state  governments.  8ome 
may  not  like  the  idea  of  state  sovereignty, 
and  many  may  wish  that  moro  power  had 
been  given  to  the  General  Government.  But 
this  much  is  plain,  that  it  is  not  proposed  to 
allow  anything  approaching  to  state  sove- 
reignty here.  AVe  have  not  even  an  intelli- 
gible statement  as  to  what  powers  are  to  be 
exercised  by  the  general,  and  what  by  the 
local  legislatures  and  governments.  Several 
subjects  are  snecifically  given  to  both;  many 
others  are  confusedly  left  in  doubt  between 
them ;  and  there  is  the  strange  and  anomalous 
provision  that  not  only  can  the  General 
Government  disallow  the  acts  of  the  provin- 
cial legislatures,  and  control  and  hamper  and 
fetter  provincial  action  m  more  ways  than 
one,  but  that  wherever  any  federal  legi.'-lation 
contravenes  or  in  any  way  clashes  with  pro- 
vincial legislation,  as  to  any  matter  at  all 
common  between  them,  such  federal  legis- 
lation shall  override  it,  and  take  its  place. 
It  is  not  too  much  to  say  that  a  continuance 
of  such  a  system  for  any  length  of  time 
without  serious  cla.-hing  is  absolutely  im- 
possible. This  is  in  effect  so  declared  in  the 
despatch  of  Her  Majesty's  Colonial  Secretary, 
and  it  is  clearly  pointed  out  in  the  Loudon 
Times  and  in  the  Eilinhuryh  lievieio.  It 
seems  as  if  our  statesmen  had  sought  to 
multiply  points  of  collision  at  every  turn. 
Then  as  to  the  non  provision  of  a  permanent 
seat  of  government,  and  the  arrangements 
contemplated  lor  the  judiciary,  we  find  still 
more  ot  the  same  sort  of  thing;  and  as  to 
the  extraordinary  paiusthatseem  tohavebr-en 
taken  to  throw  up  a  great  wall  or  hedge  round 
those  institutions  ot  Lower  Canada  which 
of  late  have  been  giving  us  no  trouble  to 
speak  of — as  to  the  extraordinary  pains,  I  say, 
that  seem  to  have  been  taken  tu  put  a  wall 
around  those  insiitutions,  and  to  give  every 
possible  guarantee  about  them  on  this  side 
and  on  that ;  why,  this  very  machinery,  prov- 
ided forthemere  purpose  of  inducing  petiple 
to  agree  to  the  scheme,  who  would  not  other- 
wise countenance  it,  is  calculated,  at  no  very 
disiant  day,  to  cause  the  cry  to  resound 
throughout  the  laud — ''  To  yuur  tents,  (J, 
Israel  !"  (Hear,  hear.)  1  had  reached  this 
point  of  my  argument,  when  1  was  com- 
pelled to   throw  myself  on  the  indulgence  of 


the  House.  There  is  just  one  consideration 
connected  with  these  matters  to  which  I 
have  been  alluding,  that  I  wish  to  revert  to 
in  few  words,  because  I  believe  it  escaped 
me,  in  part  at  least,  last  night.  A  marked 
difference  between  the  history  of  the  United 
States  just  before  they  framed  their  consti- 
tution, and  our  late  history,  is  this :  the 
adoption  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  followed  immediately  upon  their  suc- 
cessful war  of  independence.  The  men  who 
adopted  it  had  just  gone  shoulder  to 
shoulder  through  the  severest  trial  that 
could  have  been  given  to  their  patience  and 
other  higher  qualities.  Their  entire  com- 
munities had  been,  you  may  say,  united  as 
one  man,  in  the  great  struggle  through 
which  they  had  passed,  and  were  then 
equally  united  in  their  hopes  as  to  the 
grand  results  which  their  new  system  was 
to  bring  forth.  They  had  tried  the  system 
of  mere  confederation,  and  were  agreed  that 
it  was  inadequate  to  meet  the  wants  of  their 
situation.  They  were  all  trying  to  remove 
the  evils  that  they  felt  and  apprehended 
from  it,  and  to  build  up  a  great  nationality 
that  should  endure  in  the  future.  That  was 
the  position  they  occupied.  Ours  is  some 
thing  very  different  indeed.  We  have 
not  gone  through  an  ordeal  such  as 
that  through  which  they  had  so  proudly 
passed.  On  the  contrary,  we  have  ended, 
temporarily  ended  at  any  rate,  a  series 
of  struggles  it  is  true,  but  struggles  of  a 
very  different  kind;  struggles  ihat  have 
just  pitted  our  public  men  one  against 
another,  and  to  some  extent,  1  am  sorry  to 
say,  even  our  faiths  and  races  against  each 
other.  (Hear,  hear.)  For  one,  I  do  believe 
that  these  struggles — of  the  latter  class  I 
mean — were  dying  out,  but  for  these  contem- 
plated changes,  which  are  threatening  to 
revive  them.  But,  however  that  may  be, 
struggles  there  have  been  amongst  us,  of 
which  we  have  no  cause  to  be  proud ;  things 
have  occurred  since  the  union  of  which  we 
ought  to  be  ashamed,  if  we  are  not  (Hear, 
hear.)  Of  this  kind  are  the  only  struggles 
that  we  have  had ;  and  when,  IVom  sueli  a 
past  and  present,  we  are  told  to  start  with 
the  idea,  so  to  speak,  of  at  once  creating 
and  developing  the  character  of  a  new 
and  united  nation,  under  institutions 
giving  us  a  something  short,  of  indepen- 
dence, and  at  the  same  time  any  quantity  of 
matters  about  wiiich  to  dispute  aui  come  to 
trouble,  we  may  as  well  not  shut  our  eyes  to 
the  fact,  that  we  start  with  but  poor  omens 


515 


of  success.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  I  have  to 
turn  now,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  another  brancli 
of  my  comparison — the  financial ;  and  here, 
I  may  at  once  give  the  House  an  assurance, 
which  I  am  sure  it  will  be  glad  to  have,  that 
1  will  not  trouble  it  wi*^h  more  figures  than 
are  absolutely  necessary  to  my  explanation  of 
the  views  I  have  to  present,  and  that  I  will 
not  give  a  single  figure  as  to  which  there 
can  be  the  possibility  of  a  controversy.  The 
contrast  between  the  financial  system  as  a 
whole,  with  which  the  framers  of  the  United 
States  Constitution  started,  and  the  financial 
system  with  which  it  is  proposed  we  shall 
start,  is  as  salient  as  it  is  possible  for  the 
human  intellect  to  conceive  ;  and  further  the 
contrast  between  this  proposed  financial  sys- 
tem, and  the  financial  system  of  England,  is 
just  as  salient  too.  The  framers  of  the  United 
States  Constitution  started  with  the  principle, 
that  between  the  United  States  and  the  several 
states  there  should  be  no  financial  dealings 
at  all.  They  were  to  have  separate  financial 
systems,  separate  treasuries,  separate  debts 
— all  absolutely  distinct.  And  ever  since 
the  time  when  the  unhappy  attempt  on  the 
part  of  Grreat  Britain  to  tax  the  colonies  was 
given  up,  almost  as  absolute  a  line  of  demar- 
cation between  the  Imperial  finances  and 
treasury  and  the  colonial  finances  and  trea- 
suries, has  been  maintained.  We  have  had 
our  own  sepi^rate  finances  and  our  own  sepa- 
rate treasury,  with  which  the  Imperial 
Government  has  had  nothing  to  do.  The 
Imperial  Grovernment  may  have  gone,  and 
may  still  go,  to  some  expense  on  provincial 
behalf;  but  the  British  principle  is,  that 
Imperial  finance  is  as  distinct  from  the  pro- 
vincial, as  in  the  United  States  Federal 
finance  is  from  that  of  any  state.  Now,  the  sys- 
tem proposed  here  for  our  adoption  is  not  this 
of  entire  and  simple  separation  of  the  federal 
from  the  provincial  treasuries,  but  a  system 
of  the  most  entire  and  complex  confusion 
between  them.  One  has  to  think  a  good 
deal  upon  the  subject,  and  to  study  it  pretty 
closely  to  see  precisely  how  the  confusion 
is  going  to  operate  ;  but  there  it  is,  unmistak- 
ably, at  every  turn.  I  do  not  mean  to  say 
that  under  all  the  circumstances  of  the  case 
something  of  this  sort  was  not  unavoidable. 
In  the  course  of  debate  the  other  day,  I 
remember  a  remark  was  thrown  across  the 
floor  of  the  House  upon  this  point  and  t.ho 
Hon  Minister  of  Finance  in  effect  said  : 
"  Yes,  indeed,  and  it  would  ha?e  been  a  vevj 
pleasant  thing  for  gentlemen  opposed  to  the 
scheme,  if  it  had  thrown  upon  the  provinces  a 


necessity  of  resorting  to  direct  taxation." 
Of  course,  in  the  mere  view  of  making  the 
scheme  palatable,  it  was  clever  to  make 
the  Federal  treasury  pay  for  provincial 
expenditure ;  but  the  system  that  had  need 
be  established  should  bear  testimony,  not  to 
cleverness,  but  to  wisdon:.  Is  the  system 
proposed  for  our  acceptance  as  good,  then,  as 
statesmen  ought  to  and  would  have  made  it  ? 
I  think  not;  and  the  extraordinary  thinsr  is, 
that  it  is  brought  out  with  a  flourish  of 
trumpets,  on  the  ground  that  in  some  unde- 
scribable  way  it  is  to  work  most  economically ! 
(Hear,  hear.)  VVell,  to  test  it,  I  will  take  it 
up  in  three  points  of  view — first,  as  to  assets  ; 
next,  as  to  debts  and  liabilities  ;  and,  lastly, 
as  to  revenues.  As  to  the  asset  part  of  the 
question,  the  tale  is  soon  told.  The  assets 
of  these  provinces,  speaking  generally,  are  of 
very  little  commercial  value.  They  are 
much  like  the  assets  of  an  insolvent  trader, 
with  lets  of  bad  debts  upon  his  books;  it  is  of 
small  consequence  to  whom  or  how  they  are 
assigned.  The  general  principle  upon  which 
the  scheme  proceeds,  is  to  give  the  Federal 
Government  the  bulk  of  these  assets.  The 
only  exceptions  of  any  consequence — I  am 
not  going  into  tjie  details  of  the  scheme, 
but  still  I  must  present  to  the  House  so 
much  of  detail  as  to  show  that  I  am  making 
no  rash  statement,  not  borne  out  by  facts — the 
only  important  exceptions,  I  say,  to  this  rule 
arethose  lam  about  to  notice.  Certain  proper- 
ties such  as  penitentiaries,  prisons,  lunatic  asy- 
lums, and  other  public  charitable  institutions, 
and  other  buildings  and  properties  of  the 
kind,  which,  together  with  those  I  have  just 
mentioned,  may  be  characterized  as  excep- 
tional properties,  are  to  be  assigned  by  the 
general  to  the  provincial  governments. 
A'so,  with  the  exception  of  Newfoundland, 
the  several  provinces  are  to  take  the  public 
lands,  mines,  minerals  and  royalties  in  each, 
and  all  assets  connected  with  them — in  com- 
mon parlance,  their  territorial  revenues. 
The  General  Government  is,  however,  to 
have  the  mines,  minerals  and  public  lands  of 
Newfoundland,  paying  for  them  of  course. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Then,  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  are  severally  to  have  those  assets 
which  are  connected  with  the  debts,  reserved 
for  payment  by  them  respectively;  but  these 
will  not  be  worth  much,  and  I  shall  not  take 
the  trouble  of  saying  much  about  them.  It 
is  enough  to  know  that  the  proportion  of  the 
debts  to  be  assumed  by  the  two  has  not  yet, 
for  some  reason,  been  stated,  and  that  the 
assets  connected  with  them  amount  to  very 


516 


little.  Further,  I  am  not  quite  sure  that  I 
am  right,  but  I  understood  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  for  Lower  Canada,  the  other  night, 
to  intimate  that  the  seigniory  of  Sorel  is  to 
be  somehow  a  provincial  asset  of  Lower 
Canada.  It  that  is  not  to  be  the  case  I  will 
pass  on  ;  but  if  it  is,  perhaps  the  honorable 
gentleman  will  say  so. 

Hon.  Atty.  "Oen.  CARTIKR— I  will 
speak  on  that  subject  at  another  time. 

Mr.  DUNKTN— Then,  T  am  to  tate  it 
for  granted,  I  suppose,  that  it  is  not  to  be  a 
provincial  asset  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  will 
not  interrupt  the  hon.  gentleman  now. 

Mr.  DUNKTN-Well,  Mr  Speaker,  I 
did  suppose  that  I  should  have  had  an 
immediate  answer  as  to  whether  this  seig- 
niory is  to  be  a  provincial  asset  or  not;  but 
the  hon.  gentleman  does  not  seem  inclined 
to  give  any  iuformation  upon  the  point.  By 
these  resolutions  it  is  provided,  that  oH 
ordnance  properties  a,re  to  be  taken  by  the 
General  Government;  and  I  never  heard  but 
that  the  seigniory  of  Sorel  is  an  ordnance 
property.  But  from  the  statement  made 
here  the  other  day,  it  would  seem  that 
although  this  printed  document  purports  to 
be  the  scheme,  it  does  not  give  us  true  in- 
formation on  this  point.  The  wording  of 
the  55th  resolution  is,  that  the  "  propeity 
transferred  by  the  Imperial  Government 
and  known  as  ordnance  property "  is  to 
belong  to  the  General  Government;  if  any 
part  of  it  is  really  a  provincial  asset,  it  must 
become  so  by  one  of  those  explanations  or 
glosses  which  we  are  not  allowed  to  insert 
in  the  instrument  now,  but  are  to  take  our 
chance  of  for  some  future  time.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Passing  over  the  mystery  that  seems  to 
hang  over  the  subject,  I  refer  then  to  a  mat- 
ter about  which  there  can  be  no  mistake. 
There  certainly  cannot  be  a  doabt  that  the 
lands,  mines,  and  minerals  of  Newfoundland 
are  to  be  a  Federal  asset  ;  and  there  is  not 
any  doubt  either  that  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment will  have  to  pay  St50,OUii  a  year  for 
them.  It  is  perfectly  certain  that  these 
lands  will  cost  that  money;  and  it  is  per- 
fectly certain,  I  think,  that  the  administration 
of  them  will  also  cost  a  certain  amount  of 
trouble  and  dispute,  as  to  the  mann»;r  in 
which  it  is  to  be  carried  on.  But  if  human 
nature  remains  human  nature,  we  may  rea- 
sonably and  probably  surmise  tluit  they  will 
not  yield  so  great  a  revenue  to  the  G<  iicr.i' 
Government  as  is  by  agme    thought.     We 


shall  have  Newfoundland  delegations  in  the 
Commons  House,  and  in  the  other  House ; 
and  in  order  to  keep  them  in  anything  like 
^ood  humor,  and  to  enable  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor  of  Newfoundland  to  carry  on  his 
government  with  anything  like  ease  and  eom- 
t'urt,  their  lands,  mines  and  minerals  will 
have  to  be  administered,  not  with  a  view  to 
Federal  revenue — even  though  to  that  end 
they  are  costing  the  direct  payment  of 
S150.000  a  year— but  with  a  view  to  New- 
foundland popularity.  Id  fact,  I  think  it 
will  be  found  that  the  management  of  these 
properties  will  be  curried  on  more  with  a 
view  to  the  development  and  profit  of 
Newfoundland,  than  for  any  profit  of  the 
people  of  Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  and 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  Every  man, 
woiran  and  child — from  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor  downwards — connected  with  New- 
foundland, will  regard  it  as  a  fit  article  of 
political  faith,  that  they  must  be  worked 
with  a  .special  view  to  the  great  future  of 
♦^hat  great  country.  /\.nd  the  eonsequeace 
will  be  many  little  passages  betwe;  u  the 
province  and  the  Federal  Government,  not 
advantacreous  to  the  latter,  but  illustrative  of 
the  way  in  which  governments  too  often 
have  to  deal  with  things  for  which  they 
have  had  to  pay.  Well,  sir,  I  pass  to  the 
matter  of  the  debts;  and  these,  it  m^ist  be 
acknowledged,  are  rather  more  important 
than  the  assets.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  is 
no  mistake  about  tl.at;  though  there  might 
seem  to  be  a  mistake  about  the  resolutions 
on  this  subject,  were  you  to  take  their  letter 
only.  The  sixtieth  resolution  says  that  the 
General  Government  shall  assume  all  the 
debts  and  liabilities  of  each  province;  while 
the  sixty-first  has  it,  that  part,  of  our 
Canadian  debt  is  to  be  borne  by  L^pper  and 
l.iOwer  Canada  respectively.  In  a  sense,  I 
will  presently  explain.  I  think  the  Mxtieth 
resolution  about  tells  the  truth,  or  rather,  I 
ought  to  say,  falls  short  of  it.  But  it 
requires  one  to  work  the  oracle  out,  to  follow 
the  calculation  through,  in  ord'-r  to  see 
tiiat  it  docs  so,  that  these  debts  will  indeed 
all — and  more  than  all — fall,  direclly  or 
indirectly,  on  the  Federal  Guvornmeat. 
Meantime,  on  our  way  to  that  part  .  t  my 
argument,  I  set  it  down  that  und<T  the 
sixty-first  resolution  there  is  an  :unount 
of  reserved  debt  wliich,  in  a  certain  man- 
lier, is  to  fall  iiu  Uppt;r  and  liower  Canada 
respectively.  Pretty  much  as  it  was  just 
now    in    the   orduance    property,    po    here, 


517 


we  cannot  get  an  intelligible  answer  as  to 
what  these  reserved  debts  are,  as  ai;ainst 
either  province,  or  what  the  assets  a,\e 
that  each  is  to  take  as  an  offset  to  them. 
But,  for  the  purpose  of  constituting  the 
stated  debt  of  the  future  Confederdtioo, 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  we  are  told,  are 
to  throw  into  it  an  amount  of  $62,500,000, 
the  surplus  of  their  debt  being  nominally  left 
to  be  borne  by  themselves,  after  they  shall 
have  become  confederated  ;  Nova  Scotia,  on 
the  other  hand,  is  to  be  allowed  to  increase 
her  debt  to  $8,000,000;  and  Newfoundland 
and  Prince  Edward  Island  are  to  throw  in 
theirs  at  the  nominal  figure  they  stand  at 
now.  But,  by  an  ingenious  contrivince, 
the  aggregate  real  debt  of  the  country 
is  to  be,  in  effect,  a  good  deal  more 
than  the  figgregation  of  these  figures  would 
give.  Upper  and  Lower  <  anada.  to  begin 
with,  as  we  have  seen,  are,  b(  sides,  separately 
to  pretend  to  bear  the  weight  of  their  con- 
siderable excess  of  debt  over  the  ^62,500,000, 
or  S25  a  he.id,  allowed  under  this  arrange- 
ment. Nova  Scotia  and  New  Bruu.-jwick, 
should  they  not  iacrease  their  debts  to  be 
assumed  up  to  this  figure  of  $25  a  head,  are 
to  be  paid  interest  at  five  per  cent,  on  any 
amount  of  shortcoming  in  that  behalf  they 
may  be  guilty  of  And  Newfoundland  and 
Prince  Edward  Island  are  to  be  paid  in- 
terest at  the  some  rate,  on  the  amount  to 
which  their  smaller  debts  tall  short  of  this 
same  normal  S25  allowance.  For  practical 
purposes,  therefore,  the  debts  of  the  four 
Lower  Provinces  are  thus  brought  up  to  this 
standard  level.  The  Federal  Grovernment 
is  t)  pay  interest  on  them  to  that  tune — if 
not  til  creditors  ot  those  provinces,  then  to 
the  provinces  theraselve.  And  we  are  tostart 
with  a  clear,  practical  debt  of  $25  a  head 
for  every  man,  woman,  and  child  in  the 
Confederacy.  Incurred  or  not,  we  wtartwith 
it  as  due,  and  pay  accordingly.  And  there 
are,  besides,  those  amounts  of  debt  left  nom- 
ioall}' to  the  charge  of  Upper  Canada,  as  to 
which  1  shall  have  a  word  more  to  say  shortly. 
Meantime,  I  proceed  to  our  third  head — of 
revenues.  And  here,  the  first  and  most 
striking  fact  is,  that  the  Federal  Government 
38  to  make  yearly  grants,  payable,  by  che 
way,  semi-annually  and  in  advance,  to  each 
province,  ui  proportion  to  its  population  as 
shwwn  by  the  census  of  18<5l,  and  at  ^he  rate 
of  80  cents  a  head.  And  the  way  in  which 
this  80  C')nt::a  headapportionment  is  comeat, 
is  in  itself  somewhat  edifying.  According 
to  the  statements  made  here  by  Ministers, 


the  Finance  Mnisters  of  the  several  pro- 
vinces were  invited  at  the  Conference  to 
come  forward  with  a  statement  of  their 
respective  wants.  Of  course  their  state- 
ments were  to  be  framed  with  a  due  regard 
to  economy.  Such  things  are  always  to  be 
done  economically.  This  is  a  diplomatic 
phrase,  of  which  we  understand  here  the 
full  meaning ;  and  I  was  not  at  all  surprised 
to  hear,  that  however  economically  the 
statements  were  made  out,  thiy  had  fco  be 
cut  down.  Whether  they  are  said  to  have 
been  cut  down  once  or  twice,  or  oftener,  I 
do  not  distinctly  recollect.  Bu:  at  last,  after 
having  been  duly  cut  down,  they  were  found 
to  requii'e  this  grant  or  subvention,  at  the 
rate  of  80  cents  a  head  all  round — subject 
always  to  deduction  as  against  the  Canadas, 
and  to  additions  in  favor  of  the  four 
Lower  Provinces,  as  we  shall  presently 
see.  With  less,  the  provinces  could  not 
get  on  at  the  rate  thought  necessary,  unless 
by  levying  undesired  taxes  Well,  besides 
these  subventions,  the  provinces  (all  but 
Newfoundland)  are  to  have  the  proceeds  of 
their  lands,  mines  and  minera's ;  and  New- 
foundland is  to  have,  instead,  the  further 
grant  from  the  Federal  treasury,  of  $150,000 
a  year,  for  ever.  They  may  all,  further, 
derive  some  more  indirect  ,  evenue  from 
licenses  of  various  sorts  ;  and  Nova  Scotia 
may  add  to  these  an  exceptional,  and  ex- 
ceptionable, export  duty  on  coal  and  other 
minerals;  and  New  Brunswick,  the  like  on 
lumber.  Besides  which,  on  the  mere  ground 
that  she  cannot  do  without  it,  New  Bruns- 
wick is  to  have  a  further  Federal  grant  of 
$63,000  a  yea"  for  ten  years  ;  unless,  indeed, 
in  the  event  of  her  not  augmenting  her  debt 
to  the  full  amount,  in  which  case,  any  payment 
made  to  her  of  interest  on  that  score  is 
to  be  deducted  from  the  $63, 000 — a  shrewd 
hint,  by  the  way,  that  she  had  not  best  be 
tuo  economical — and,  lastly,  all  are  to  have 
the  precious  right  of  direct  taxation,  and  the 
higher  privilege  of  borrowing  without  limit. 
The  Federal  power  is  to  have,  of  course,  the 
right  to  tax  in  nil  sorts  of  wa  -s,  the  special 
export  duties  made  over  to  N(  w  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia,  alone  excepted.  Now, 
Mr.  Speaker,  taking  this  wh-^le  arranage- 
meat  together,  I  must  repe;it  that  I  see 
in  it  no  principle  but  one.  The  pruvinces 
are  to  be  able  to  carry  on  thcnr  opera- 
tions according  to  their  supposed  probable 
future  exigencies,  without  danger  of  direct, 
that  is  to  say,  oppressive  or  new  taxation. 
Well,    sir,    engineers    say    that    the   mea- 


518 


sure  of  strength  of  a  fortified  place  is 
the  strength  of  its  weakest  part.  And 
this  principle  is  here  applied  to  our  provinces 
in  a  financial  point  of  view.  The  need  of 
the  neediest  is  made  the  measure  of  the  aid 
given  to  all.  The  most  embarrassed  is  to 
have  enough  for  its  purposes,  and  the  rest  are 
to  receive,  if  not  exactly  in  the  same  ratio, 
at  least  so  nearly  up  to  the  mark  as  that  they 
shall  all  be  satisfied ;  while,  on  the  other 
hand,  the  debts  of  all  the  provinces  are  to  be, 
for  all  practical  ends,  raised  to  the  full  level 
of  the  most  indebted.  To  show  this,  sir, 
another  word  or  two  as  to  the  amount  of  the 
promised  subventions  to  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  This  is  to  be,  as  we  have  seen, 
only  the  80  cents  a  head,  less  some  deduction, 
I  care  not  what,  for  the  purpose  of  my  pre- 
sent argument ;  but  there  is  no  doubt,  I  say, 
that  they  are  to  receive  less  than  the  80  cents, 
because  the  excess  of  their  debt  over  $62,- 
500,000,  though  thrown  on  them,  will  have  to 
be  guaranteed,  and  the  interest  on  it  will  have 
be  paid  by  the  Federal  Government,  and 
that  interest  will  be  deducted  by  the  Federal 
Government  from  the  subventions  payable  to 
them  respectively.  The  Lower  Provinces,  on 
the  other  hand,  as  we  have  also  seen,  are 
really  to  get  more.  Well  now,  suppose  for  the 
moment  the  arrangement  had  been,  for  the 
Confederation  to  assume  at  once  the  whole 
debt  of  Canada,  and  accordingly  to  pay  pro- 
portionably  larger  amounts  of  interest  to  the 
other  provinces.  The  two  Canadas  would 
then  have  needed,  exactly,  so  much  the  less 
of  nominal  subvention,  and  the  other  pro- 
vinces too.  The  cost  to  the  Federal  treasury, 
in  the  whole,  would  still  have  been  exactly 
what  it  is.  Indirectly,  therefore,  I  say  that 
for  all  practical  purposes  there  is  thrown  upon 
the  General  Government  the  whole  amount  of 
the  past  debts  of  these  provinces,  and  more  ; 
and  the  whole  burden,  too,  of  the  carrying  on 
of  the  machinery  of  government,  both  Federal 
and  Provincial ;  unless,  indeed,  any  of  the 
provinces  should  see  fit  hereafter  to  undertake 
what  I  may  call  extraordinary  expenditure, 
and  to  defray  it  themselves.  I  do  not  think 
they  will.  It  would  involve  direct  taxation. 
And  I  think  they  can  do  better.  But  lor  all 
this  part  of  the  plan,  sir,  it  is  like  the  rest, 
framed  on  the  mere  idea  of  making  things 
pleasant — the  politician  idea  of  anyhow  win- 
ning over  interests  or  parties  for  to-day — lutt 
on  any  statesmanlike  thought  as  to  its  future 
working  and  effects.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now, 
Mr.  Speaker,  with  this  outline  of  the  sys- 


tem, I  should  be  glad  to  know  where  the 
prospect  of  economy  of  administration  is  to  be 
found.  The  Honorable  Finance  Minister  of 
the  future  Federal  Government  will  have  to 
do — what  ?  To  come  with  a  budget,  not 
merely  to  cover  the  outlay  of  the  Federal 
Government — that  is  of  course — but  with  a 
budget  to  cover  also  all  that  I  may  call  the 
normal  outlay,  the  intended  outlay,  the  fore- 
seen outlay  of  all  the  provinces.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  Minister  of  Finance  —  if  any 
there  is — of  the  province,  unless  he  chooses 
to  outrun  the  constable ;  unless,  with  his  lieu- 
tenant-governor and  local  governmsnt  and  le- 
gislature, he  chooses  to  spend  more  than  he 
can  get  out  of  the  Federal  Government,  by 
this  system,  or  by  that  nice  modification  of  it 
which  is  pretty  sure  to  be  soon  thought  of, 
and  to  which  I  shall  by  and  by  advert,  need 
have  no  budget  at  all.  He  knows  he  is  to 
have  about  so  much  from  his  lands,  mines 
and  minerals,  so  much  from  licenses  and 
so  forth,  so  much  from  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment, so  many  thousand  or  hundred 
thousand  dollars  in  all  ;  and  he  will  of  cour.sc 
make  the  best  he  can  of  that.  And  by  the 
way,  it  is  a  remarkable  fact  in  this  connec- 
tion, that  we  find  that  with  one  accord  those 
who  arc  undertaking  to  speak  to  the  dif- 
ferent provinces  in  support  of  Confederation 
are  agreed  in  each  telling  the  people  of  his  • 
own  province  what  a  first-rate  bargain  h:is 
been  made  for  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  5ly  hoa. 
friend  from  Hochelaga  read  us  an  extract  the 
other  night  from  a  speech  of  Hon.  Mr.  Til- 
ley,  of  New  Brunswick,  in  which  that  hou. 
gentleman  cyphered  out,  perfectly  to  his  satis- 
faction, and  to  that  of  many  who  heard  him, 
that  New  Brunswick  is  guaranteed  an  excess 
over  her  real  needs,  of  $34,000  a  year.  If  I 
am  not  mistaken,  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General  for 
Lower  Canada  undertook  since,  in  this  House, 
to  shew  us  that  some  $200,000  or  more  a- 
year  beyond  hers,  is  in  tlie  same  way  secured 
to  Lower  Canada  ;  even  though  she  does 
not  receive  the  full  80  cents  a  head.  I 
think  I  remember  that  the  Hon.  President  of 
the  Council — though  I  have  not  yet  got  the 
report  of  his  speech  to  refresh  uiy  memory — 
made  it  a  point  that  really  Upper  Cauada, 
as  well  as  Lower  Canada,  is  comfortably  off 
in  this  respect.  One  hears  too,  I  think,  of 
the  same  song  in  Nova  Scotia  ;  and  in  Prince 
Edward  Island  certainly,  wc  have  the  advo- 
cates of  Confederation  telling  the  people 
there — "  You,  too,  have  got  a  capiluJ  bargain, 
you  have  so  much  more  to  8j)eud,  according 


519 


to  this  arrangement,  than  you  ever  had  before." 
A  strange  comment  on  that  earnest  desire  for 
economy,  which  is  claimed  to  have  dictated 
the  whole  of    these    arrangements.       (Hear, 
hear.)     If  that  was  the  intention,   the   per- 
formance has  fallen  far  sbtort  of  it.     (Hear, 
hear.)       And    before    I    go    further,    there 
occurs  to  me  this  consideration,  arising  out 
of    this  state  of  things — out   of  this   abun- 
dance, not  to  say  plethora,  that  is  meant  to 
characterize  the  provincial  exchequers,  what- 
ever may    be    the  case     with    the    Federal 
exchequer  under  the  system — one  considera- 
tion, I  say,  connected  with  this,  which  should 
not  be  lost  sight  of  when  we  are  talking  about 
the  application  of  anything  in  the  least  like 
responsible  government  to  our  provinces.     I 
never  yet  heard  of  an  elected  legislative  body 
that   had   much  control    over  a  government, 
unless  it  had  hold  of  the  strings  of  a  purse 
from   which   the   government  wanted  to  get 
something.     In  the  old  days,  before  responsi- 
ble government  was  thought  of — in  the  days 
when   casual    and   territorial   revenues    gave 
provincial  governments  all  they  wanted,  or  a 
little  more — provincial  legislatures  had  mighty 
little  to  do  with   government,    and,  if  they 
complained  of  a  grievance,  were  little  likely 
to  be  listened  to."     It  was  even  the  same  long- 
before  at  home.     When  the  English  Crown 
had  its  abundance  of  resources,  English  kings 
cared  little  for  their  parliaments.     But  when 
their  resources  were  exhausted,  and  they  could 
not  borrow  easily,  and  had  to  ask  for  taxes, 
then  the  House  of  Commons  began  to  acquire 
power,  and,  in    course  of  time,  became    the 
body  it  is  now.     I  shall  be  surprised  if  we  do 
not  find,  in  the  event  of  this  Confederation 
taking   place,  that   for  some   time  our   pro- 
vincial legislatvu'es,   whether  they  consist  of 
one  chamber  or  of  two,  will   be  less  powerful 
for   good   than   many    would   wish    to   have 
them,  that  the   machine  of  state  will  not  be 
altogether  driven  by  their  means.  "'But  there 
is    another  result,    about    which   there    can 
be  no    question.     With   one   accord,    not  in 
Newfoundland  merely — I  was  hinting  a  little 
while    ago  at  what    would   be  tke   case    of 
Newfoundland,    as   to   its   lands,  mines    and 
minerals — not  there  only,  but  in   all  the  pro- 
vinces— the  provincial    governments  will,  in 
a  quiet  way,  want  money,  and  the  provincial 
legislators  and  people  will  want  it  yet  more  ; 
grants  for  roads  and  bridges,  for  schools,  for 
charities,  for  salaries,  for  contingencies  of  the 
legislative  body — for  all  manner  of  ends  they 
will  be  wanting  money,  and  where  is  it  to 
come  from?      Whether  the   constitution   of 


the  Provincial  Executive  savors  at  all  of  re- 
sponsible government  or  not,  be  sure  it  will 
not  be  anxfous  to  bring  itself  more  under  the 
control  of  the  legislature,  or  to  make  itself 
more  odious  than  it  can  help,  and  the  easiest 
way  for  it  to  get  money  will  be  from  the  Gen- 
eral Grovernnient.  I  am  not  sure,  either,  but 
that  most  members  of  the  provincial  legisla- 
tures will  like  it  that  way  the  best.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  will  not  be  at  all  unpopular, 
the  getting  of  money  so.  Quite  the  contrary. 
Gentlemen  will  go  to  their  constituents  with 
an  easy  conscience,  telling  them :  "  True,  we 
had  not  much  to  do  in  the  Provincial  Legis- 
lature, and  you  need  not  ask  very  closely 
what  else  we  did ;  but  I  tell  you  what,  we 
got  the  Federal  Government  to  increase  the 
subvention  to  our  province  by  five  cents  a 
head,  and  see  what  this  gives  you — §500  to 
that  road — $1000  to  that  charity — so  much 
here,  so  much  there.  That  we  have  done; 
and  have  we  not  done  well  ?  "  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  afraid  in  many  constituencies  the  ans- 
wer would  be;  "  Yes,  you  have  done  well; 
go  and  do  it  again."'  I  am  afraid  the  provin- 
cial constituencies,  legislatures  and  executives 
wUl  all  show  a  most  calf-like  appetite  for  the 
milking  of  this  one  most  magnificent  govern- 
ment cow. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— There  wUl 
be  more  municipal  loan  funds. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Yes,  that  is  one  of  the 
analoo:ies,  and  there  is  another  even  nearer. 
Yeai-s  asio,  we  in  Canada  said  we  would  for  ever 
give  a  certain  fixed  sum  per  annum  for  an  edu- 
cation fund.  It  was  to  be  divided,  in  a  cer- 
tain ratio,  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
But  from  time  to  time,  as  the  census  shewed 
changes  of  their  relative  population,  the  divi- 
sion was  to  be  altered.  In-  a  little  while  this 
alteration  of  ratio  gave  Lower  Canada  less 
money  and  Upper  Canada  more.  "  Oh  !  but," 
said  the  Administration,  "  we  cannot  do  that 
with  Lower  Canada.  After  having  had  distrib- 
uted to  her  so  many  thousands  a  year,  she  could 
not  stand  having  ever  so  much  less.  No,  no ; 
we  cannot  do  that.  What  shall  we  do,  then  ? 
In  our  estimates  we  will  put  in  a  vote  for 
Lower  Canada,  just  to  keep  her  figure  up  to 
the  mark  of  what  she  has  been  receiving. 
And  what  then  ?  Why,  of  course,  we  must 
add  a  vote  for  Upper  Canada  in  the  same  pro- 
portion, just  to  take  her  so  much  further  beyond 
her  former  figure."  (Hear,  hear.)  To  be 
sure,  I  do  find,  with  reference  to  this  subven- 
tion, a  pleasant  little  expression,  which  one 
wishes  may  be  carried  out.  It  is  to  be  "  in 
full."     "  Such  aid  shall  be  in  full  settlement 


520 


of  all  future  demands  upon  the  General  Gov- 
ernment for  local  purposes,  and  shall  be  paid 
half-yearly,  in  advance,  to  each*  province." 
Yes,  sir,  so  the  test  runs.  But  suppose  our- 
selves in  the  time  of  our  first,  or  second,  or 
third  Federal  CaMnet,  consisting  of  its  six  or 
more  sections,  of  course  ;  and,  for  the  sake  of 
my  aigument.  I  will  suppose  a  great  deal, 
that  every  one  of  these  sections  controls  com- 
fortably the  delegations  from  its  own  province 
in  the  two  Houses  of  Parliament,  that  the 
machine  is  working  beautifully,  that  there  is 
no  lieutenant-governor  crusty,  no  provin- 
cial administration  kicking  over  the  traces, 
and  no  provincial  legislature  giving  any 
other  trouble  than  by  its  anxiety  to  be  well 
paid.  I  will  suppose  even  that  this  halcyon 
state  of  things  has  gone  on  for  some  time. 
But  one  or  two  or  more  of  the  provinces  begin 
to  feel  that  they  cannot  do  without  having 
more  money.  And  the  pressure  will  be  such 
upon  the  Provincial  Legislature  and  upon  the 
Lieutenant-Governor,  and  upon  the  delegations 
to  the  General  Legislature,  and  upon  the 
section  of  the  Fedei'al  Executive  representing 
each  such  province,  that  it  never  can  be  long- 
resisted  ;  there  will  be  trouble  if  it  is,  and 
things  must  be  kept  pleasant.  (^Hear,  hear.) 
One  mode — the  most  obvious,  though  the 
least  scientific — will  be  just  to  incre:ise  the  sub- 
vention from  eighty  to  eighty-five,  or  even  to 
eighty-two  ov  eighty-one  cents  a  head. 
An  additional  cent  a  head  from  the  Federal 
Exchequer  would  be  an  object — a  lew  cents 
a  head  would  be  a  boon.  Or  suppose  the 
demand  took  this  form  :  suppose  the  people 
— say  of  Upper  or  Lower  Canada — should 
say,  "  Those  Newfoundlanders  are  getting 
$150,000  a  year  for  their  lands,  mines,  and 
minerals ;  and  the  Federal  Government  is 
positively  administering  those  lauds,  mines, 
and  minerals,  not  for  Federal  pi'ofit,  but  more 
for  the  advantage  of  thtt  province  than  we 
find  we  can  administer  our  own ;  the  General 
Government,  therefore,  must  take  our  lands, 
mines,  and  uiiuerals,  and  give  us  also  an 
equivalent."  That  is  one  way  of  doing  the 
thing  ;  and,  when  the  time  comes  for  making 
that  tjort  of  demand,  depend  upon  it  that  it 
will  sound  singularly  reasonable  in  the  ears  of 
the  pi'ovinces  whose  representatives  shall  make 
it  ;  and  if  two  or  thx'ee  provinces  shall  join  in 
the  demand,  my  word  tor  it,  the  thing  will 
soon  be  dune.  IMie  same  sort  ol'  thing  may  be 
looked  for  in  reference  to  the  New  Brunswick 
timber  export  duty  and  the  Nova  Scotia 
mineral  export  duty.  Here  is  one  form  of 
the  cry  that  may  be  raised — "  You  give  these 


exceptional  privileges  to  New  Brunswick  and 
Nova  Scotia  ;  give  them,  or  some  equiva- 
lent, to  us  also."  With  common  ingenuity 
lots  of  such  cries  may  be  nicely  got  up.  But 
for  everything  so  given,  much  or  Utile,  to  what- 
ever province,  you  will  have  to  do  the  like 
for  all  the  rest,  and  the  figure  will  be  alarming 
before  you  get  to  the  end.  And  even  this  is 
not  all.  Not  only  will  you  havi^  these  com- 
paratively direct  demands — more  or  less  in- 
geniously, but  always  irresistibly — made,  but 
you  will  have  demands  maae  in  a  more  indi- 
rect form  which  it  will  be  yet  easier  to  carry, 
from  their  consequences  not  being  so  clearly 
seen,  and  which  will  therefore  be  still  worse 
in  their  effects.  I  speak  of  that  tremendous 
catalogue  of  outlays  which  may  be  gone  into 
without  the  appearance  of  a  grant  to  any  par- 
ticular pro\'ince — the  costly  favors  which  may 
be  done  in  respect  of  inter-provincial  ferries, 
steamship  lines  between  or  from  the  provinces, 
railways  between  or  through  the  provinces, 
telegraph  lines,  agriculture,  immigration, 
quarantine,  fisheries,  and  so  forth.  There 
will  be  claims  of  every  description  under  all 
these  heads  ;  and  besides  them  there  will  be 
the  long  roll  of  internal  improvements  of  all 
kmds,  whether  for  the  benefit  of  one  or  of 
more  than  one  of  the  provinces.  For  any 
local  work  in  which  it  can  be  at  all  pretended 
that  it  is  of  general  iuteroht,  pressure  may  be 
brought  to  bear  upon  the  GontJral  Government 
and  Legislature,  and  whenever  one  province 
succeeds  in  getting  any  such  grant,  evei-y 
other  province  must  be  de.ilt  with  in  tiie  same 
way.  Compensation  must  be  made  all  round, 
and  no  human  intelleet  can  estimate  the 
degree  of  extrava>i;ance  that  before  long  must 
become  simply  inevitable.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Sir,  with  our  Upper  and  Lower  Cauiida  we 
have  had  pretty  good  proof  of  this.  We 
know  that  whenever  anything  has  had  to  be 
done  for  one  section  of  this  province,  it  has 
constantly  been  found  necessary  to  do  some- 
thing of  the  same  or  of  some  other  kind  for 
the  other.  If  either  needed  anything  very 
badly,  then  the  ingenuity  of  the  Minister  of 
Finance  had  to  be  exercised  to  discover  some- 
thing else  of  like  value  to  give  the  other.  In 
one  word,  unless  I  am  morj  mistaken  than  I 
think  1  can  be,  ♦-hese  local  governments  will 
be  pietty  good  daugliters  of  the  honse-leecli, 
and  their  cry  will  be  Ibund  to  be  pretty  often 
and  pretty  successfully — "  (.live,  give,  give!  " 
But,  sir,  there  is  very  little  need  for  our  dealing 
with  considerations  of  tiiis  kind  a.s  to  a  future 
about  which  one  may  bo  thought  to  be  in 
danger  of  drawing  more  or  less  upon  imagin- 


521 


ation.  We  have  in  these  resolutions  a  some- 
thing that  is  to  come  upon  us,  one  may  say, 
at  once ;  I  allude  to  the  expenditure  for 
our  defences — the  Intercolonial  Railway — the 
opening  of  communication  with  the  North- 
West — and  the  enlargement  of  our  canals. 
There  is  no  doubt  that  all  these  new  sources 
of  outlay  are  immediately  contemplated. 
Their  cost  is  not  given  us ;  it  could  not  be 
given  with  any  safety  to  the  scheme.  I  do 
not  pretend  to  say,  sir,  but  that  some  of  these 
expenditures  are  necessary ;  and  this  I  am 
even  prepared  to  say  as  to  one  of  them  — 
the  outlay  for  defences — that  every  province 
of  the  empire  is  bound  to  do  its  full  share 
towards  its  own  defence.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
never  gave  a  vote  or  expressed  an  opinion  in 
any  other  sense.  I  was  always  ready  with 
my  vote  for  that  purpose.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  looking  at  the  great  outlay,  I  may  say 
the  enormous  outlay  here  understood  to  be 
contemplated,  I  confess  I  cannot  approach  the 
subject  in  this  connection  without  a  feeling  of 
misgiving.  I  can  quite  understand  our  going 
to  the  full  limit  of  our  means  for  all  the  ex- 
pense that  is  necessary  for  the  thorough  main- 
tenance of  our  militia  on  an  efficient  footing 
as  to  instruction  and  otherwise ;  but  when  we 
hear  of  Imperial  engineers,  with  Imperial 
ideas  as  to  cost,  laying  out  grand  permanent 
works  of  defence,  then  I  confess  I  am  much 
inclined  to  think  that  we  had  need  try  to 
practice  what  economy  we  can  in  that  direc- 
tion. (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  as  regards  the 
Intercolonial  Railway,  we  have  in  these  reso- 
lutions a  very  blind  tale  indeed.  "  The  Gen- 
eral Government  shall  secure,  without  delay, 
the  completion  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
from  Riviere  du  Loup,  through  New  Bruns- 
wick, to  Truro  in  Nova  Scotia" — and  this 
quite  irrespectively  of  the  expense.  The 
vague  pledge  is,  that  the  General  Government 
shall  at  any  cost  secure  the  immediate  com- 
pletion of  this  work.  As  to  its  commercial  or 
military  advantages,  I  have  not  a  great  idea  of 
them.  I  believe  there  has  been  much  exagger- 
ation as  to  both.  Unless  with  a  strong  force  to 
defend  it,  in  a  military  point  of  view,  it 
would  be  of  just  no  use  at  all.  (Hear,  hear.) 
For  my  own  part,  as  I  have  often  said,  I 
heartily  wish  to  see  the  road  built ;  but  un- 
less we  can  get  it  done  upon  terms  within  our 
means,  we  had  better  do  without  it  a  little 
longer,  and  develope  what  other  means  of 
communication  are  at  our  command.  While 
1  want  to  see  the  thing  done,  I  am  not  pre- 
pared for  the  declaration  I  find  in  these  reso- 
utions,  that,  coUte  que  coute,  we  will  at  once 

67 


have  it.  I  doubt  the  policy  of  that  way  of 
dealing.  (Hear,  hear.)  Viewed  in  its  politi- 
cal aspects,  the  work  is  as  much  an  Imperial 
as  a  provincial  work ;  is  one  for  which  we 
have  a  right  to  look  for  aid  from  the  Empire. 
I  know  it  is  said  the  Empire  is  going  to  aid 
us.  Well,  for  a  long  time  we  held  this  lan- 
guage :  if  the  Imperial  Government  and  the 
Lower  Provinces  between  them  will  combine 
to  do  the  rest,  we  are  ready  with  lands  and 
subsidies,  in  a  certain  proportion  and  to  a 
certain  limited  amount.  It  is  unfortunate, 
in  my  opinion,  that  that  proposal  led  to  no 
result.  I  should  have  been  glad  to  have  ob- 
tained it  on  such  terms,  and  even  would  have 
bid  up  the  limit  to  the  utmost  extent  of  our 
means. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— That  offer  is 
extant  yet. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  know  it  is,  but  those 
since  made  have  left  it  out  of  sight.  In  1862 
the  start  was  made  to  a  larger  and  not  limited 
outlay — five-twelfths  of  an  unstated  whole — 
Great  Britain  to  reduce  the  cost  by  endorsing 
for  us  to  a  stated  figure.  I  regretted  that 
scheme;  but  still  it  was  better  for  us  than 
what  is  now  being  forced  upon  us.  By  this 
last  scheme,  Canada  will  have  to  bear  some 
nine-twelfths — it  has  been  said  ten-twelfths — 
but  some  nine-twelfths,  at  any  rate.  In  fact, 
the  bulk  of  the  burden  is  to  fall  on  us  ;  and 
it  is  significant,  though  I  dare  say  that  the 
honorable  gentlemen  who  drew  up  this  resolu- 
tion did  not  mean  it,  that  it  seems  to  let  the 
Imperial  Government  off  froin  its  guarantee. 
This  is  no  mere  criticism  of  mine  ;  my  atten- 
tion was  drawn  to  the  point  by  the  article  in 
the  Edinhurglb  Review  from  which  I  was 
quoting  last  night.  That  writer — who  is  not 
a  nobody,  you  may  depend  upon  it — remarks, 
in  effect,  that  from  the  wording  of  this  reso- 
lution, the  honorable  gentlemen  of  the  Confer- 
ence do  not  seem  to  be  holding  to  the  Imperial 
guarantee.  Should  it  not  be  given,  the  cost 
to  us  will  be  frightfully  increased.  And  this 
it  had  not  need  be.  For  the  honorable  gen- 
tlemen who  are  running  us  into  it  might  do  well 
to  remember  the  past.  We  had  the  Grand 
Trunk  railway  offered  us  for  what  was  called 
next  to  uothinsf.  The  guarantee  we  were  to 
give  was  not  for  much ;  and  it  was  well 
secured ;  and  we  were  assured  it  was  not 
meant  to  be  made  use  of — was  more  a  form 
than  a  reality.  Yet  the  guarantee  was  used  and 
extended,  and  made  a  gift  of ;  every  estimate 
failed  ;  the  cry  ever  since  has  been  for  more, 
more  ;  and  the  whole  concern  is  now  in  such 
a  state  as  to  be  threatening  us  day  by  day 


522 


with  yet  larger  demands  on  the  public  purse 
than  ever,  to  keep  it  going.      Well,  sir,  I  pass 
on  from  these  hef  vy  outlays  for  permanent  de- 
fences, and  the  Intercolonial  Railway  ;  and  I 
read  in  these  resolutions  that  "  the  communi- 
cations   with    the  North-Western  territory, 
and   the  improvements  required  for  the  de- 
velopment of  the  trade  of  the  Great  West  with 
the  seaboard,  are  regarded  by  this  Conference 
as  subjects  of  the  highest  importance  to  the 
Federated  Provinces,  and  shall  be  prosecuted 
at  the  earliest  possible  period  that  the  state 
of  the   finances  will  permit."     Well,  sir,  we 
are  told  that  this  last  phrase  is  synonymous 
with  those  unqualified  words,   "  without  de- 
lay," that  are  used   as  to   the  Intercolonial. 
I   am  reminded  of  a  saying  current  in  the 
days  of  Lord  Sydenham,  who  was  a  good 
deal  in  the  habit  of  wanting  work  done  faster 
than  the  workers  liked,  and  of  whom  it  used 
to  be  said  that  all  he  ordered  had  to  be  done 
"  immediately,  if  not  sooner."    (Hear,  hear, 
and  laughter.)     I  take  it,   the   Intercolonial 
Railway  is  to  be  done   "  immediately,   if  not 
sooner,"    and  these  other  improvements  are 
to  wait  till  "immediately,  if  not  later."   They 
are  to  be  prosecuted  as  soon  as  the  state  of 
the  finances  will  permit.     I  know  some  hon. 
gentlemen  think  that  will  be  very  soon,  but 
if    so,  there   must    be    most    extraordinary 
means    taken   to  borrow  or  otherwise   raise 
money.     (Hear,    hear.)     Nothing    can     be 
vaguer  than  the  intimation  given  as  to  what 
these  works  are  to  be.     The  communications 
with   the    Grreat  North-Western    territory, 
where  are  they  to  begin ;  what  are  they  to 
be;  and  where  are  they  to  end?     And  the 
other  improvements  to  be  carried  out — the 
communicatioDS     with     the     seaboard — the 
enlargement  of  the  canals — how  much  en- 
largemeut,   sir,  and   of  how  many  and  what 
canals?     An  honorable  friend  near  me  says 
canal  enlargement  is  or  should  be  productive. 
No  doubt,  but  ac    what  rate  ?     1  remember 
reading  in  a  Lower  Province  paper  the  other 
day  of  a  late  speech  of  Hon.  iMr.  Tilley's, 
in  which  he  said  that  at  the  Quebec  Confer- 
ence they  went  into  a  calcuiation  of  the  pro- 
ductive value  of  the  entire  outlay  of  these 
provinces  upon    productive     public    works, 
and  found  them  to   be  yielding  an  average 
of  one    and    an   eighth  of    one    per  cent., 
or  something  like  that,  of  yearly  return  upon 
their  cost.     I  admit  there  may  be  in  the 
widening  of  these  canals  a  something  of  pro- 
ductiveness; but  to  say  that  it  will  be  any  thing 
like  proportionate  to  the  outlay,  is  absurd. 


But  what  I  am  coming  back  to  is  this — we 
are  to  go  at  once  into  the  outlay  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  and  we  are  to  go  into  this 
other,  too;  but  yet,  almost  beyond  the  shadow 
of  a  doubt,  these  canals  and  other  communi- 
cations with  the  west — which  western  politi- 
cians think  they  are  to  get  as  their  equivalent 
— are  to  be  held  back  a  bit.  I  forgot  to  bring 
here  an  extract  from  a  late  speech  of  Hon. 
Mr.  TiLLEY'Sjin  which  he  plainly  said  thatan 
immediate  carrying  on  of  these  western  works 
did  not  enter  into  the  calculations  of  the 
Conference,  that  the  Intercolonial  was  unmis- 
takably to  be  put  through  at  once ;  but  that 
the  Lower  Province  delegates  gave  no  promise 
of  the  like  prosecution  of  these  other  works 
as  the  price  of  that.     (Hear,  hear.) 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Where  do  you  find 
that? 

Mr.   DUNKIN— It  is  quoted  in  a   late 
number  of  the  Toronto  Leader;  and  if  any- 
one will  bring  me  the  fyle  of  that  paper  from 
below,  I  will  read  the  words  with  pleasure. 
Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  raising  no  question 
of  any  one's  sincerity  upon    this   question. 
The  politicians  of  the  eastern  provinces,  I 
have  no  doubt,  are  thoroughly  in  earnest  in 
their  demand    for    the   construction  of  the 
Intercolon  al  road,  and  are  quite  willing  to 
have  the  western  improvements  begun  about 
as  soon  as  they  can  be  ;  and  lam  quite  sure 
that  the  frieuds  of  this  scheme  in   the  west 
want  their  western  works  instantly  gone  on 
with.     I  even  believe  they  both  think  they 
will  get  what  they  want ;  but  I  am  surprised 
at  their  credulity,  for  I  do  not  see  huw  they 
can.    I  believe  they  are  deceiving  themselves 
and  their  friends  with  the  bright   pictures 
their  fancy  has  been  painting,  and   that  my 
western   friends,  at  any  rate,  are  doomed  to 
some  disappointment.     Whenever  a  Federal 
Parliament  shall  meet,  I  fancy  it  will  become 
a  question  of  grave  interest  whether  or  not 
the  state  of  the  finances  will  admit  of  the 
construction  of  all  these  works  ;  and  if  not, 
then  what  is  to  be  done  first— and  how — 
and  when  ?    And   as  I   have  shewn,  unless 
the  six   majorities  are  pretty  much  agreed, 
there    will    be  no    great   deal    done    in   any 
hurry. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— That  is 
worse  than  tho  double  majority. 

Mr.  DUNK  IN— Yes,  three  times  as 
bad,  to  say  tlie  least.  Well,  suppose  the 
financiers  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  having 
before  their  eyes  the  fear  of  diiect  taxation  by 
the  Federal  Parliament,  should  oome  to  tha 


523 


I 


conclusion  that  it  will  not  signify  for  a  few 
years,  whether  these  western  works  are  begun 
at  once  or  not ;  and  should  propose  to  sit 
down  first  a  little,  and  count  the  cost. 

Hon.   J.    S.    MACDONALD— Insist  on 
having  a  swrvey  made,  for  instance,  first  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Well  yes,  that  would 
probably  be  insisted  upon  before  they  would 
consent  to  commit  themselves  further  to  the 
undertaking.  Suppose,  then,  Lower  Canada 
to  go  with  the  Lower  Provinces  for  staving 
off  this  commeu  cement  of  these  works,  how 
will  it  fare  with  Upper  Canada's  demand  for 
them  ?  And  what  will  not  be  the  indigiiation 
of  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  at  being  tied 
"to,  and  controlled  by  the  non-progressive 
people  of  the  east  ?  Or,  suppose  that  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada  should  agree,  and  the 
Lower  Provinces  be  seriously  angry,  at  any 
over-caution  eastward,  or  over-rashness 
westward ;  would  not  they  too,  so  left 
out  in  the  cold,  be  making  things  quite 
unpleasant  ?  Or  again,  suppose  the  more 
eastern  and  the  western  interests  should 
continue  to  push  on  both  plans,  careless  of 
cost,  and  that  Lower  Canada,  for  fear  of 
direct  taxation,  should  hold  back  in  earnest, 
would  that  make  no  trouble  ?  Is  not  any 
one  of  these  suppositions  more  probable 
than  the  cool  assumption,  over  which  western 
gentlemen  are  so  happy,  that  when  the  time 
comes  all  interests  will  instantly  work  to- 
gether, and  by  magic  do  everything,  east  and 
west,  at  once  ?  But,  be  this  as  it  may,  sir, 
on  all  three  accounts — defences,  lutercoloaiai 
road  and  western  works — we  are  sure  of 
cost,  as  well  as  ol  disputes,  in  plenty.  And 
there  is,  besides,  a  fourth.  I  shall  have 
occasion  to  shew  presently  that  we  are  going 
to  be  called  upon  to  spend  money  for  yet 
another  kindred  purpose,  and  a  large  amount 
too — and  this,  as  a  part  of  this  scheme. 
Our  star  of  empire  is  to  wing  its  way  west- 
ward ;  and  we  are  to  confederate  everything  in 
its  track,  from  Newfoundland  to  Vancouver's 
Island,  this  last  included.  But,  between  us 
and  it,  there  lies  the  Hudson  Bay  territory. 
So,  of  course,  we  must  acquire  that  for 
confederation  purposes ;  and  the  plan  is, 
that  before  we  get  it  we  shall  have  to  pay 
for  the  elephant — though,  after  we  get  him, 
we  may  find  him  costly  and  hiird  to  keep. 
It  will  not  be  difl&cult  to  prove  that  this  is 
contemplated  by  the  promoters  of  this  scheme. 
Between  railways  and  canals,  and  western 
extenbion,  before  we  get  the  scheme  carried 
out  in  all  its  contemplated  amplitude,  we 
shall  have  bled  pretty  well,  and  seen  some 


sights  that  we  have  hardly  yet  learnt  to 
anticipate.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  with  this 
certain  prospect  before  us  of  a  gigantic 
outlay,  what  is  the  prospect  for  a  gigantic 
income  ? 

A  MEMBER— Oh,  never  mind  that. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  quite  understand  that 
many  hon.  gentlemen  take  little  thought  of 
where  money  is  to  come  fiom,  if  only  it  is  to 
be  spent  as  they  wish.  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
before  I  go  further,  I  am  handed  the  fyle  of 
the  Toronto  Leader,  and,  with  the  leave  ot 
the  House,  T  will  read  from  it  the  extracts 
from  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley's  speech  to  which  I 
was  referring  some  minutes  ago.  This  jour- 
nal refers  to  it  as  follows  : — 

Mr.  TiLLET,  -we  are  sorry  to  say,  does  not  give 
us  much  hope  of  the  speedy  enlargement  of  our 
canals.  He  laughs  at  the  idea  of  his  opponent 
quoting  Mr.  Brown  as  authority  that  thiS  work  is 
to  be  undertaken  at  once.  "  The  Conference,"  says 
Mr.  Ttllet,  "  agreed  to  build  the  railroad  without 
delay,  the  canals  as  so-~  n  as  the  state  of  the  finances 
will  permit."  But  he  ridicules  the  idea  that  the 
finances  Mill  be  held  at  once  to  admit  of  this 
being  done.  '•  Canada,"  says  Mr.  Tilley,  "could 
not  have  been  brought  into  the  union  on  a  promise . 
to  build  her  canals,  for  the  railroad  will  cost 
$12,000,000,  which  added  to  the  $22,0uO,000 
for  canals,  would  be  an  amount  far  above  what 
they  could  have  gained  them  for  without  Confe- 
deration." 

Such  is  Hon.  Mr.Tii.LEY's  style  of  remark,  and 
I  do  not  think  it  is  at  all  encouraging  to  the 
very  sanguine  view  of  the  scheme  taken  by 
some  western  politicians.  It  is  presumable 
that  he  will  take  Newfoundland,  Prince 
Edward  Island  and  Nova  Scotia  with  him, 
and  along  with  them  he  will  get  much  of 
Lower  Canada.  If  I  should  have  the  honor 
of  a  seat  in  the  House,  they  may  depend 
upon  it,  I  shall  do  what  I  can  to  get  them 
fair  play.  But  I  repeat,  I  do  not  expect  to 
see  them  satisfied  with  the  result.  Well, 
sir,  however  this  may  be,  there  is  going  to 
be,  at  any  rate,  an  immense  amount  of  money 
required,  come  from  whence  it  may.  Where 
is  it  to  come  from  ?  We  cannot  shut  our  eyes 
to  the  fact,  that  the  customs  tariff"  must  come 
down.  (Hear.)  There  are  no  two  ways  about 
that.  Our  tariff"  is  much  higher  than  those 
ot  the  Lower  Provinces;  and  the  advocates 
of  Confederation  there  have  to  assure  people 
that  their  tariff's  will  not  be  materially  raised, 
in  order  to  get  any  sort  of  hearing  for  the 
scheme.  To  tell  them  that  the  tariff  of 
Pan  id:.  i<^  to  be  that  of  the  Confederation, 
would  be  to  ruin  the  chances  of  getting  a 
favorable  reception  for  it.     (Hear,  hesu:.) 


524 


We  are  marcliing  fast  and  steadilj  towards 
free  trade.  We  must  meet  the  views  of  the 
people  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  who  are  hos- 
tile to  high  tariflFs,  and  the  demand  of  the 
Imperial  authorities  that  we  should  not  tax 
their  manufactures  so  heavily  as — in  their 
phrase — almost  to  deprive  them  of  our  mar- 
ket. It  was  distinctly  and  officially  stated 
the  other  day,  in  Newfoundland,  that  assur- 
ance had  been  given  to  the  Government  of 
Newfoundland  that  the  vieivs  of  the  Cana- 
dian Grovernment  are  unmistakably  in  this 
direction.  And  I  do  not  think  there  is  any 
mistake  about  that,  either.  To  shew  how 
people  at  home,  too,  expect  our  tariff  to  come 
down,  I  may  refer  to  the  speech  of  Mr. 
Hambtjry  Tracy,  in  seconding  tlie  Address 
in  answer  to  the  Speech  from  the  Throne,  in 
the  House  of  Commons  the  other  day.  He 
could  u#t  stop,  after  saying  generally  that  he 
was  pleased  with  this  Confederation  move- 
ment, without  adding  that  he  trusted  it  would 
result  in  a  very  considerable  decrease  in  the 
absurdly  high  and  hostile  tariff  at  present 
prevailing  in  Canada,  I  have  not  here  the 
^exact  words,  but  that  was  their  purport. 
*Well,  if  the  customs  tariff  is  to  come  down 
largely,  we  must  look  for  a  decrease  of 
revenue.  I  am  free  to  admit  that  a 
reduction  of  the  tariff  on  certain  articles, 
or  even  some  measure  of  reduction  all 
round,  might  be  no  material   loss,  or   might 


even 


in 


be  a  ,;;ain,  to  the  revenue 
ordinary  or  prosperous  times,  that  is  to  say. 
But  when  the  object  of  reducing  the  tariff 
is  to  meet  other  exigencies  than  those  of 
revenue,  one  can  hardly  hope  to  get  such  a 
tariff  as  shall  give  us  the  largest  revenue 
attainable.  And  besides,  no  one  can  deny 
that  we  are  about  entering  upon  a  time, 
ccmmercially  speaking,  tbat  may  be  termed 
hard.  We  have  had,  for  some  time  past, 
pretty  heavy  importations,  and  our  best  in- 
formed and  shrewdest  commercial  men  tell 
us  that  we  are  going  to  have,  for  some  time 
to  come,  pretty  light  importations.  We  are 
not  to  have  a  plethoric  purse,  even  under 
ordinary  drafts  upon  it,  tor  some  years. 
Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  hard  time  is 

come  now. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Yes,  it  is  come,  or  is  close 
on  us,  and  it  rather  threatens  to  last.  And  if, 
with  this  state  of  things  before  us,  to  oblige 
the  Imperial  authorities  and  the  iiower  Pro- 
vinces, under  pressure  of  an  inevitable  state 
necessity,  we  are  to  reduce  our  customs 
rates,  or  any  number  of  them,  below  what  1 
may  call  their  figure  of  largest  productive- 


ness, then  surely  it  is  little  to  say  that  we 
cannot  look  forward  to  an  increase  in  the 
revenue,  or  even  to  a  continuance  of  out 
present  income,  and  it  is  rather  strange  that 
we  should  be  called  upon,  withal,  at  the 
same  time  so  to  change  our  whole  system  sa 
to  involve  ourselves  in  the  enormous  extra 
vaganees  here  contemplated.  No  taxing 
scheme  can  ever  meet  the  case.  Nothing 
can  be  looked  to,  but  a  device  of  borrowing 
without  limit — the  incurring  of  an  amount 
of  debt  that,  in  interest  and  sinking  fund, 
must  prove  to  be  simply  unendurable  here- 
after. (Hear,  hear.)  But,  in  fact,  we  can- 
not even  borrow  to  any  large  amount 
unless  under  false  pretences.  We  cannot 
borrow  without  telling  tales  of  our  con- 
dition, resources  and  expectations,  that 
will  in  the  end  be  found  out  to  be  lies. 
We  must  awaken  hopes  in  the  minds  of 
money  lenders  abroad,  that  cannot  but  prove 
delusive — the  memory  of  which  must  work 
us  hereafter  an  aggravation  of  punishment 
that  we  shall  then  scarcely  need.  And  when 
that  time  of  reckoning  shall  have  come,  then 
staggering  under  the  load,  without  credit  at 
home  or  abroad,  the  country  will  have  to 
choose  whether  it  will  have  heavy  direct  tax- 
ation— for  heavy  such  taxation  then  must  be 
— or  have  recourse  to  more  or  less  of  re- 
pudiation; or  even  run  some  risk  of  both. 
Sir,  if  ever  that  time  shall  come,  the  public 
men  of  that  day  and  the  people  on  whom  the 
burthen  will  then  press,  will  not  bless  the 
memory  of  those  who  held  out  the  false  hopes 
and  inducements  under  which  it  is  now  sought 
to  decoy  us  into  wild  expenditure  and  crushing 
debt.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  now  pass  to  another  branch  of  my  subject 
altogether.  There  is  a  further  salient  con- 
trast between  the  American  system  and  the 
system  proposed  for  our  adoption.  The 
people  of  the  United  States,  when  they 
adopted  their  Constitution,  were  one  of  the 
nations  of  the  earth.  They  formed  their 
whole  system  with  a  view  to  national  ex- 
istence. They  had  fought  for  their  inde- 
pendence, and  had  triumphed  ;  and  still  in 
the  Hush  of  their  triumph,  they  were  laying 
the  foundations  of  a  system  absolutely  na- 
tional. Their  Federal  Government  was  to 
have  its  relations  with  other  nations,  and  wa^ 
sure  to  have  plenty  to  do  upon  entering  the 
great  family  of  nations.  But  we — what  are 
we  doing?  Creating  a  new  nationality,  ac- 
cording to  the  advocates  of  this  scheme.  I 
lijirdly  know  whether  we  are  to  take  the 
phrase  for  ironical,  or  not.     Is  it  a  reminder 


S'^S 


that  in  fact  we  have  no  sort  of  nationality 
about  us,  but  are  unpleasantly  cut  up  into  a 
lot  of  struggling    nationalities,  as    between 
ourselves  ?     Unlike  the  people  of  the  United 
States,  we  are  to  have  no  foreign  relations  to 
look  after,  or  national  affairs  of  any   kind ; 
and  therefore  our  new  nationality,  if  we  could 
create  it,  could  be  nothing  but  a  name.     I 
must  say  that  according  to  my  view  of  the 
change  we  ought  to  aim  at,  any  idea  of  Fed- 
eration that  we  may  entertain  had  need  take 
an  Imperial  direction.     Whenever  changing 
our  institutions,  we  had    need  develope  and 
strengthen — not  merely  maintain,  but  main- 
tain,  develope  and  strengthen — the  tie,   not 
yet  Federal  as  it  ought  to  be,  between   us 
and  the  parent  state.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  is 
the  entire  Empire  that  should  be  federalized, 
and  cemented  together  as  one,  and  not  any 
mere  limited  number  of  its  dependencies  here 
or  there.      A  general,  or    so    called  federal 
government,  such  as  we  are  here  proposing 
to  create,  will  most  certainly  be  in  a  false  po- 
sition.    As  I  said  just  now,  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment of  the  United  States  was  to  take  its 
place  in  the  great  family  of  the  nations  of  the 
earth  ;  but  what  place  in  that  family  are  we 
to  occupy?      Simply  none.      The    Imperial 
Government  will  be  the  head  of  the  Empire  as 
much  as  ever,  and  will  alone  have  to  attend 
to  all  foreign  relations  and  national  matters; 
while  we  shall  be    nothing    more    than    we 
are    now.     Half-a-dozen    colonies   federated 
are   but   a   federated   colony    after   all.    In- 
stead of    being  so  many  separate  provinces 
with  workable  institutions,  we  are  to  be  one 
province  most  cumbrously  organised — nothing 
more.   How  many  grades  of  government  are  we 
going  to  have  under  this  system  ?     The  Im- 
perial Government,  the  one  great  head  of  the 
Empire  ;  then  this  Federal  Government ;  then 
our  lot  of  provincial  governments;  below  them 
again,  our  county  municipalities,   and,   still 
below  these,  our  township  and  other  local  mu- 
nicipalities.    (Hear,  hear.)     We  have  thus 
five  drfiPerent  sets  of  governmental  machinery, 
and  of  these  five  there  is  just  one  too  many 
in  my  judgment.     You  might  as  well  make 
six  while  you  are  about  it,  and  interpolate  be- 
tween our  provincial  and  county  governments 
a  district  governmental  machinery.    If  we  did 
that  we  should  be  doing  a  thing  not  a  whit 
more  absurd  than  we  propose  to  do  now,  in 
erecting  a  new  piece  of  such  machinery  be- 
tween  the    Imperial   and  provincial  govern- 
ments.    We  do  not  want  a  third  municipal 
government,  because  there  is  nothing  for  it  to 


do  ;  and  when  we  propose  to  create  a  Federal 
Government  between  the  Imperial  and  Pro- 
vincial, we  are  equally  proposing  to  create  a 
something  which,  having  nothing  of  its  own 
to  do,  must  find  work  by  encroaching  on  the 
functions  of  the  Imperial  and  provincial  gov- 
ernments in  turn,  with  no  place  among  na- 
tions, no   relations  with  other  countries,  no 
foreign  policy  ;  it  will  stand  in  just  the  same 
position  towards  the  Imperial  Government  as 
Canada  now  stands  in,  or  as  Upper  or  Lower 
Canada   before    the   union   used   to   occupy. 
That  intermediate  work  of  government  which 
is  now  done  by  the  Povince  of  Canada,  the 
Province  of  New  Brunswick,  the  Province  of 
Nova  Scotia,  the  Province  of  Prince  Edward 
Island  and  the  Province  of  Newfoundland,  is 
to  be  done,  part  by  the  Federal  Government 
and  part  by  the  provinces.     The  work  is  sim- 
ply divided  that  is  now  done  by  the  jrovin- 
eial  legislatures  and  governments,  and  in  my 
opinion  there  is  no  use  in  this  subdivision  of 
work  at  all.    You  are  putting  this  fifth  wheel 
to  the  coach,  merely  to  find  out  that  ;i  misfits 
ting  odd  wheel  will  not  serve  any  useful  pur- 
pose, nor  so  much  as  work  smoothly  with  the 
other  four.     (Hear,   hear.)      Your   Federal 
Government  will  occupy  about  as  anomalous 
a  position  between  the  Imperial  and  provin- 
cial governments  as  I  showed,  last  night,  will 
be   occupied   by   your   lieutenant    governors 
between  the  Federal  authority  and  the  pro- 
vinces.   Both  will  be  out  of  place,  and  to  find 
themselves  in  work  they  must  give  trouble.    I 
do  not  see  how  they  can  do  good,  but  I  do 
see  how  they  can  do  any  quantity  of  harm. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  real  difficulty  in  our  po- 
sition is  one  that  is  not  met  by  the  machinery 
here  proposed.     What  is  that  difficulty  ?     In 
the  larger  provinces  of  the  empire  we  have 
the  system  of  responsible  government  thor- 
oughly accorded  by  the  Imperial  Government, 
and  thoroughly  worked  out  ;  and  the  difficul- 
ty of   the  system  that  is  now  pressing,   or 
ought  to  be,  upon  the  attention  of  our  states- 
men is  just  this — that  the  tie  connecting  us 
with  the  Empire,  and  which  ought  to  be  a 
federal  tie  of  the  strongest  kind,  is  too  slight, 
is  not,  properly  speaking,  so  much  as  a  federal 
tie  at  all.    These  provinces,  with  local  respon- 
sible government,  are  too  nearly  in  tbe  posi- 
tion of  independent  communities ;  there  is  not 
enough  of  connection  between  them  and  the 
parent  state  to  make  the  relations  between 
the  two  work  well,  or  give  promise  of  lasting 
long.     There  is  in  the  machinery  too  much 
of  what  may  be  called  the  centrifugal  ten- 


526 


dency.  (Hear,  hear.)  All  the  great  pro- 
vinces are  flying  off  too  much,  attending  too 
exclusively  to  mere  local  considerations, 
too  little  to  those  of  the  general  or  Imperial 
kind.  And  at  home,  as  we  seem  to  be  flying 
off,  they,  too,  are  thinking  of  us  and  of  the 
interests  they  and  we  have  in  common  less 
and  less.  What  is  wanting,  if  one  is  to  look 
to  the  interest  of  the  Empire,  which  is  really 
that  of  all  its  parts — what  is  wanting,  as  I 
have  said,  is  an  efi^ective  federalization  of  the 
Empire  as  a  whole,  not  a  subordinate  federa- 
tion here  or  there,  made  up  out  of  parts  of  it. 
I  have  neither  time  nor  strength  to-night  to 
go  fairly  into  the  question  of  how  this  thing 
should  be  done  ;  but  a  few  words  more  as  to 
that,  I  must  be  pardoned  for.  Until  latterly 
in  Canada  we  have  not  had,  and  some  colo- 
nies have  not  now,  I  believe,  a  Minister  of 
Militia  Even  we  have  not  as  yet,  in  our 
Cabinet,  a  minister  to  attend  to  what  may  be 
called  Imperial  affairs.  It  is  not  the  business 
of  any  minister,  nor  is  it  even  distinctly  recog- 
nized as  that  of  the  Ministry  as  a  whole,  in  any 
of  these  provinces,  to  attend  to  what  is  really 
at  the  present  juncture  the  most  important  part 
of  our  whole  public  business — the  regulation 
of  affairs  between  them  and  the  Mother 
Country.  I  know  it  may  be  said  this  is  in 
the  hands  of  the  Governor.  So  are  other 
things.  But  for  them,  we  see  the  need  of  his 
having  advisers.  And  as  to  this,  if  a  Cabinet 
leaves  it  wholly  to  him,  that  practically 
amounts  to  its  neglecting  these  affairs  alto- 
gether. Let  me  go  back  to  a  point  or  two  in 
the  history  of  affairs  in  Canada  within  the  re- 
collection of  all  honorable  gentlemen.  In 
1862,when  the  then  Militia  Bill  was  before  the 
House,  it  was  asked  over  and  over  again  by 
gentlemen  of  the  Opposition,  what  communica- 
tions, if  any,  had  been  received  from  the  Im- 
perial Government  in  respect  of  the  defence  of 
this  province ;  and  the  answer  invariably  was, 
that  there  hud  been  none,  none  known  to  the 
Administration,  as  an  administration.  Now, 
if  there  had  then  been  an  officer — the  Pro- 
vincial Secretary,  the  Minister  of  Militia,  or 
any  other  member  of  the  Government — 
whose  duty  it  had  been  and  was  to  attend  to 
that  important  branch  of  the  public  service; 
if  the  relations  between  the  Mother  Country 
and  this  province  had  been  known  to  be  in  his 
charge,  such  an  answer  as  that  could  never 
have  been  given,  nor  the  second  reading  of 
that  bill  lost  in  consequence.  The  other  night, 
when  the  Kaid  Prevention  and  Alien  Bill  was 
belbre  the  House,  we  did  receive  the  intima- 
tion that  the  Mother  Country  desired  legisla- 


tion of  that  kind  at  our  hands ;  and  it  passed 
accordingly.     But  that  intimation  was  then 
given  us   exceptionally.       There   is   a   large 
class  of  questions   springing   up  continually 
which  affect  Imperial  interests  and  Imperial 
views  as  well  as  our  own,  and  we  ought  to 
have — and  if  our  connection  with  the  Empire 
is  to  last,  we  must  have — this  department  of 
our  public  affairs  attended  to  by   a  regularly 
appointed  Minister  of  the  Crown  here,   who, 
whenever  occasion  requires,  may  explain  them 
and  who  shall  be  responsible  to  this  House. 
Of  course,  nobody  denies  that  the  Governor 
General  is  the    channel    of    communication 
between  us   and   the   Imperial   Government. 
He  is  the  Queen's  representative  and  servant, 
and  his  communications  with  the  Home  Gov- 
ernment must  be   of    the  most   confidential 
character,  except  in  so  far  as  he  may  see  fit 
to  make  them  known.     But  fully  admitting 
this,  still  besides  those    communications   of 
this  character  which  he  may,  have  and  indeed 
at  all  times  must  have  unrestrictedly  with 
the  Imperial    Government,   there  should  be 
— and,  if  our  Imperial   relations   are  to  be 
maintained,  there  must  be — a  further  class  of 
communications  between  the  two  governments, 
as  to  which  the  Governor  should  be  advited  by 
a  minister  whose  particular  duty  it  should  be 
to  manage  affairs  between  the  Mother  Country 
and  ourselves,  and  to  be  in  effect  a  local  ad- 
viser, as    to  such  matters,    of  the    Imperial 
advisers  of  the  Crown  in  England.     In  one 
word,  we  have  got  to  develope  the  Imperial 
phase,  so  to  speak,  of  our  provincial  system  ; 
to  find  the  means  of  keeping  our  policy  and 
that  of  the  Mother  Country  in  harmony;  and 
if  we  do  not,  we  cannot  long  keep  up  our  con- 
nection with  the  Empire.    If  this  were  done — 
if  we  had  in  our  several  provincial  adminis- 
trations some  member  charged  with  this  de- 
partment of  the  public  service,  as  latterly  we 
have  come  to  have  one  charged  with  the  cog- 
nate subject  of  the  militia   and    defence   of 
the  country — if  these  ministers  of  Imperial 
relations  made  periodical   visits  home,  so  as 
there  to  meet  one  another  and  such  members 
of  t'.ie  Imperial  Government  or  others  as  the 
Crown  might  charge  to  meet  and  confer  with 
them — if  there  were  thus  organized,  some  sort 
of  advisory  colonial  council  upon  the  precedent 
(so  far,  of  course,  as  the  analogy  might  hold) 
of  the  Council  for  East  Indian  Affairs  lately 
created — if,  I  say,  sonietlung  in  this  way  were 
done,  then  indeed  we  should  be  developing 
our  Imperial  relations  in  the  proper  direction, 
taking  at  least  a  step — the  first  and  hardest — 
towards  the  framing  of  that  Imprial  feder- 


.  527 


ation  of  whicli  we  so  stand  in  need.     But  there 
is  no  provision  of  that  kind  in  the  system  here 
proposed;  there  is  no  apparent  contemplation 
of  a  step  of  that  kind  in  connection  with  this 
step.     On  the  contrary,  this  step  is  all  in  the 
wrong  direction.     We  are  here  proposing  to 
create  in  this  part  of  the  Queen's  dominions 
a  mere  sub-federation,  so  to  speak,  tending, 
so  far  as  it  tends  to  anything,  towards   the 
exclusion   of  this   kind   of  provision.     This 
other  machinery  to  which  I  have  been  allud- 
ing, Mr.  Speaker,  if  we  had  had  it  a  fev* 
years  ago,  would  have  been  of  extreme  useful- 
ness.    Suppose  we  had  had  something  of  that 
kind   when   the   Rebellion   Losses   Bill   was 
passed,  when  so  much  excitement  was  thereby 
created  in  the  country.     Suppose  that  then 
when  the  indignation  of  a  large  class  was  con- 
centrating itself  against  Lord  Elgin  for  his 
supposed  purpose  of  assenting  to  that  bill,  he 
could  have  said — "  It  is  idle  for  you,  as  you 
must  see,  to  require  me  to  listen  to  you  against 
the  advice  of  my  constitutional  advisers ;  but 
you   know   there  is  a  tribunal  at  home,  to 
which  you  may   appeal    from  that    advice, 
where  you  will  be  heard  and  they,  and  from 
which  you  may  be  sure  of  justice  if  you  have 
been  aggrieved  or  injured  here."     Sir,  if  it  had 
been  possible  for  the  Grovernor  General  to  have 
given  such  an  answer  at  that  time  to  the  angry 
remonstrances  of  those  who  opposed  that  mea- 
sure, the  Parliament  House  would  not  have 
been  burnt,  nor  would  we  have  had  to  deplore 
the  long  train  of  consequent  disturbances  and 
troubles   which    then    and  ever  since    have 
brought  so  much  discredit  and  mischief  to  the 
country.      Take  another  case.     If  such  ma- 
chinery had  existed  when  the  fishery  treaty 
with  France  was  entered  into  by  the  Imperial 
Government,  conditioned  upon  the  consent  of 
Newfoundland,  no  such  anomalous  proceeding 
could  have  taken  place.     For  the  representa- 
tives of  Newfoundland  and  of  the  rest  of  these 
provinces  would  at  once  have  shown  the  Im- 
perial Government  that  it  would  not  meet  ap- 
proval in  that  colony,  nor  indeed  for   that 
matter,  anywhere  else   in   British  America. 
Great  Britain  would  have  been  saved  from  en- 
tering into  a  treaty  that — as  matters  went — 
had  to  be  disallowed,  with  some  discredit  to 
the  Empire,  and  some  risk  of  a  rupture  of 
its  friendly  relations  with  a  foreign  power. 

Mr.  SCOBLE— Does  not  the  House  of 
Commons  afibrd  that  machinery  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  House  of  Commons 
knows  very  little,  and  cares  much  less,  about 
our  local  affairs.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  say,  if 
there  had  then  been  a  Colonial  Council  at 


home,  where  representatives  of  the  different 
provincial  administrations    might    have  met 
and  advised  with  any  of  Her  Majesty's  minis- 
ters, there  would  have  been  no  difficulty.     It 
would  have  disposed  of  any  number  of  other 
questions  more  satisfactorily  than  they  have 
been  disposed  of.     The  north-eastern  bound- 
ary question  with  the  States,    for   instance, 
would  never  have  been  settled  in  a  way  so 
little  accordant  with  our  views  and  interests ; 
and  the  question  of  the    western    boundary 
would  have  been  settled  sooner  and  better,  also. 
Take  another  illustration.      When  the  diffi- 
culty arose  between  this  country   and  Eng- 
land about  our  tariff,  when  the  Sheffield  man- 
ufacturers sought  to  create  a  feeling  at  home 
against  us,  because  we,  mainly  to  raise    re- 
venue, placed  duties  higher  than  they  liked 
on  importations   of  manufactured    goods,  if 
any  such  machinery  had  been  in  operation,  no 
such  wide-spread  and  mischievous  mieappre- 
hension  as  to   our  acts  and  purposes  could 
have  arisen,  as  ever  since  has  been  prevalent  in 
England,  and  even  on  the  floor  of  the  House 
of  Commons.     In  fact,  I  repeat  that  without 
some  such  system,  I  do  not  see  how  our  re- 
lations with  the  Empire  can  be   maintained 
on  a  satisfactory  footing.     It  is  just  the  want 
of  it  that  is  leading  so  many  at  home  now  to 
think  us  in  a  transition  state  towards  separa- 
tion and  independence ,  when,  in  truth,  we 
have  such  need  to  prove  to  them  that  we  are 
in  a  transition  state  towards  a  something  very 
different    indeed  —  the   precise  antipodes  of 
separation.     (Hear,   hear.)-     Sir,  1  was  say- 
ing that  in  this  scheme  there  is  no  such  con- 
servative tendency   as  this — nothing  indica- 
tive of  a  set  purpose  to  develope,  strengthen 
and  perpetuate  our  connection  with  the  Em- 
pire.    That  end  we  might  indeed  better  gain 
without   than  with  this  extra  machinery  of 
local  federation ;  for  disguise  it  how  you  may, 
the  idea  that  underlies  this  plan  is  this,  and 
nothing  else — that  we  are  to  create  here  a 
something — kingdom,  viceroyalty,  or  princi- 
pality— something  that  will  soon  stand  in  the 
same  position  towards  the  British  Crown  that 
Scotland  and  Ireland  stood  in  before    they 
were  legislatively  united  with  England ;  a  some- 
thing having  no  other  tie  to  the  Empire  than 
the  one  tie  of  fealty  to  the  British  Crown — a 
tie  which  in  the  cases,  first,  of  Scotland,  and 
then  of  Ireland,  was  found,  when  the  pinch 
came,  to  be  no  tie  at  all;    which  did  not 
restrain  either  Scotland  or  Ireland  from  courses 
so  inconsistent  with  that  of  England  as  to 
have  made  it  necessary  that   their  relations 
should  be  radically  changed,  and  a  legislative 


528 


iinion  formed  in  place  of  a  merely  nominal 
union.  Suppose  you  do  create  here  a  kingdom 
or  a  principality,  bound  to  the  Empire  by  this 
shadow  of  a  tie,  the  day  of  trial  cannot  be  far 
distant,  when  this  common  fealty  will  be  found 
of  as  little  use  in  our  case  as  it  was  in  theirs  ; 
when,  in  consequence,  the  question  will  force 
itself  on  the  Empire  and  on  us  between  entire 
separation  on  the  one  hand,  and  a  legislative 
union  on  the  other.  But  a  legislative  union  of 
British  America  with  the  United  Kingdom 
must  be,  in  the  opinion  of,  one  may  say,  every- 
body at  home  and  here,  a  sheer  utter  impos- 
sibility ;  and  when  the  question  shall  come  to 
be  whether  we  are  so  to  be  merged  in  the 
United  Kingdom  or  are  to  separate  entirely 
from  it,  the  answer  can  only  be — "  At  what- 
ever cost,  we  separate."  Sir,  I  believe  in  my 
conscience  that  this  step  now  proposed  is  one 
directly  and  inevitably  tending  to  that  other 
step ;  ibd  for  that  reason — even  if  I  believed, 
as  i  do  not,  that  it  bid  fair  to  answer  ever  so 
well  in  the  other  respects — because  I  am  an 
Englishman  and  hold  to  the  connection  with 
England,  I  mui-t  be  against  this  scheme.  Sup- 
pose now,  on  the  other  hand,  this  scheme 
were  not  to  go  into  operation,  there  would  be 
no  earthly  difficulty  in  working  out,  with  this 
Canada  of  ours,  the  other  plan  I  have  been 
suggesting  for  the  placing  of  our  relations 
with  the  Empire  on  a  better  footing.  Nor 
would  there  probably  be  any  material  difficulty 
either  in  bringing  about  a  legislative  union  of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  or  in  developing  a 
very  near  approach  to  free  trade,  or  indeed 
absolute  free  trade  between  us  and  them.  I 
know  there  are  those  who  S&y  that  this  mock 
Federal  union  is  necessary  in  order  to  our 
getting  that  free  trade  with  those  provinces. 
Well,  sir,  as  to  that,  all  I  care  to  say  is  this, 
that  for  a  number  of  years  past  we  have  had 
a  near  approach  to  free  trade  with  the  United 
States — a  foreign  country  ;  and  I  imagine  we 
can  have  it  with  the  Lower  Provinces  as  well, 
without  any  very  great  difficulty.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  say  again,  we  had  far  better  hold 
firmly  to  the  policy  of  thus  maintaining  and 
strengthening  our  union  with  the  parent  state, 
than  let  ourselves,  under  whatever  pretext,  be 
drawn  into  this  other  course,  which  must  in- 
evitably lead  to  our  separation  from  the  Em- 
pire, (kicar,  hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
there  is  still  another  point  of  view  in  which 
this  scheme  requires  to  be  considered.  The 
people  of  the  United  States,  when  they  framed 
their  institutions,  were  not  only  starting  as  a 
nation — they  were  so  starting  with  no  dan- 
gerous neighbor-nation  near  them.     If  we  are 


to  take  the  step  now  urged  upon  us,  not  only 
are  we  to  be  something  less  than  a  nation,  but 
we  are  to  be  this  with  a  very  dangerous 
neighbor-nation  indeed.  In  this  connection  I 
may  be  allowed  to  read  a  few  words.  The 
thirtieth  resolution  says : — 

The  General  Governmeut  and  Parliament  shall 
have  all  powers  necessary  or  proper  for  perform- 
ing the  oblig-ations  of  the  Federated  Provinces, 
as  part  of  the  British  Empire,  to  foreign  coun- 
tries, arising  under  treaties  between  Great  Bri- 
tain and  such  countries . 

It  is  quite  right  that  the  General  Govern- 
ment should  have  such  powers ;  but  the  very 
fact  of  our  having  to  make  a  reservation  of 
this  kind,  is  an  unpleasant  recognition  of 
the  fact,  in  itself  the  reverse  of  encouraging, 
of  the  all  darkening  neighborhood  of  the 
United  States.  It  is  a  most  singular  thing 
that  we  are  required  on  the  one  hand  to  go  into 
this  union  on  this  very  account — for  downright 
dread  of  the  United  States — and  yet  that  on  the 
other,  we  are  as  confidently  assured  of  our  own 
immense  resources,  are  told  that  we  are  so 
wonderfully  great  and  wonderfully  rich,  that 
we  are  something  like — I  don't  know  whether 
we  are  not — the  third  or  fourth  power,  or 
maritime  power,  one  or  other,  in  the  world. 
Really,  I  would  not  undertake  to  say  how 
great  we  are,  or  are  not,  according  to  honor- 
able gentlemen.  They  startle  one,  I  had 
no  idea  how  great  wc  were !  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  yet,  with  all  this  wonderful  magnificence 
and  greatness,  wc  are  told  we  positively  must 
not,  for  very  fear  of  the  United  States — for 
fear  of  their  power — for  fear  of  their  hos- 
tility, we  must  not  any  longer  stay  disunited, 
but  must  instantly  enter  into  this  so-called 
union.  Just  as  if  either  their  power  or  their 
hostility  towards  us — taking  that  to  be  their 
feeling — would  be  lessened  by  our  doing  so. 
Just  as  if  they  would  not  be  only  the  more 
jealous  of  us  and  hostile  to  us,  for  our  setting 
ourselves  up  ostentatiously  as  their  rivals. 
(Hear,  hear.)  In  this  connection,  it  does 
seem  to  me  that  we  have  more  than  one 
question  to  answer.  Many  honorable  gentle- 
men appear  to  think  they  have  done  all  that 
need  be  done,  when  they  have  answered  to 
their  own  satisfaction  the  one  question, 
What  is  the  amount  of  our  resources  ? 
Starting  with  the  vastness  of  our  territory, 
they  go  into  all  kinds  of  statements  as  to 
our  trade  and  so  forth,  multiplying  ton- 
nage impossibly,  adding  together  exports  and 
imports — those  of  the  Intercolonial  trade 
and  all.  I  only  wonder  they  do  not,  on  the 
same  principle,  calcuUto  our  inter-county  and 


529 


our  inter-township  trading?,  or  our  dealings 
between  cities  and  country,  adding  exports 
and  imports  of  course  all  round,  and  so 
proving  that  we  have  done  more  trade  than  all 
the  rest  of  the  world  put  together ;  unless, 
indeed,  they  were  to  count  up  the  trade 
of  the  rest  of  the  world  by  the  same 
rule  ;  and  then  to  be  sure  they  would  find  out 
that,  after  all,  the  rest  of  the  world  do  more 
business,  are  more  populous,  richer,  and 
stronger,  than  we.  The  question  is  not  sim- 
ply. What  are  our  own  resources  ?  We  must 
supplement  it  with  a  second — What  arc  they 
comparatively?  xVnd  especially,  what  are 
they  as  compared  with  those  of  the  United 
States  ?  And  while  we  are  asking  this  ques- 
tion, we  may  as  well  not  take  it  for  granted  as 
a  fact,  that  the  larger  our  country  the  strong- 
er we  must  be.  Suppose  we  are  to  be  four 
millions  of  people  in  a  country  as  large  as 
Europe  or  larger.  I  wish  to  Heaven  we  were 
four  millions  of  people — with  all  the  adjacent 
unexposed  territory  you  will — but  in  a  coun- 
try smaller  th-m  England.  Why,  sir.  New 
England  alone  has  more  population  and  re- 
sources, all  told,  than  tlie  Lower  Provinces 
and  Lower  Canada  together :  and  with  her 
compactness  and  advantage  of  position,  she 
could  alone,  presumably,  beat  both. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gex.  CARTIER— NewEng- 
land  stronger  than  the  Lower  Provinces  and 
the  two  Canadas  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  did  not  say  that;  I  said 
stronger  than  Lower  Canada  and  the  Lower 
Provinces. 

Hox.  Atit.  Gex.  CARTIEPt— It  is  about 
the  tame  in  population,  two  and  a  half  mil- 
lions, while  we  have  more  shipping  than 
they. 

Mr.  DUXKIN — I  fear  that  if  we  were  to 
come  into  collision,  a  good  deal  of  shipping 
might  change  hands.  At  any  rate,  at  the 
best,  we  should  have  a  pretty  tight  time  of 
it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Better  put  a  bold 
face  on  it. 

Mr.  DUXKTN— Yes,  yes.  ''Brag  is  a 
good  dog,  but  Holdfast  is  a  better."  Then, 
there  is  the  State  of  New  York,  which  would 
certainly  be  more  than  a  match  for  Upper 
Canada — and  New  York  is  but  one  of  several 
states  conterminous  with  Upper  Canada. 
Who  in  his  jenses,  sir,  thinks  of  these 
provinces  as  able,  of  themselves,  to  hold 
their  own  against  New  England,  New  York 
and  the  rest  of  the  tier  of  states  along  our 
frontier  ?  And  yet  we  are  talked  to  as  it 
Confederation  were  about  to  make  us  the 
68 


third  ur  iuurth  power,  or  maritime  power  in 
the  world  I  ]jut  what  I  was  saying  more 
particularly  was,  that  too  much  of  territory, 
and  above  all  too  much  of  exposed  frontier, 
does  not  increase  our  strength,  but  lessons 
it.  Ours  is  the  '  long  thin  line  of  red," 
which  is  not  so  well  able  to  receive  a  charge 
as  the  solid  square. 

Col.  HAULTAIN  was  understood  to 
signify  dissent  to  some  of  the  propositions 
here  advanced. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— If  the  hon.  member  for 
Peterborough  thinks  t'  at  in  a  military  point 
of  view,  the  length  and  narrowness  of  our  ter- 
ritory adds  to  our  strength — if  he  thinks  we 
are  the  stronger  for  our  length  of  frontier,  I 
would  respectfully  recooimend  liim  to  attend 
one  of  our  military  schools  (Laughter.) 
But  seriously,  sir,  if  we  are  to  compare  our 
lesources  with  those. of  the  United  States, 
we  shall  find,  as  I  have  said,  that  theirs  are 
unmistakably,  and  beyond  count,  greater. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— Than  the  British 
Empire  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN— That  is  not  the  com- 
parison. We  are  continually  hearing  of 
what. Confederation  is  to  do  for  our.-elves, 
how  it  is  going  to  make  us  a  great  power  in 
the  world.  It  is  going  to  do  nothing  of  the 
kind.  But  a^ain — and  here  is  a  third  ques- 
tion tl.at  in  this  connection  we  have  got  to 
answer — how  is  the  temper  of  the  United 
States  going  to  be  afi"ected,  on  the  one  hand, 
by  tiie  policy  here  urged  on  u-s,  of  what  I 
may  call  hostile  independent  effort — effort 
made  on  our  part,  with  the  avowed  object  of 
setting  ourselves  up  as  a  formidable  power 
against  them  ;  or  on  the  other  hand,  by  a 
policy  such  as  I  h-ive  been  urging,  of  un- 
obtrusive development  of  our  institutions  in 
connection  with  the  British  Empire  ?  In 
which  of  the  two  cases  are  they  likely  to  be 
the  more  amiable,  or,  (which  is  perhaps  more 
to  the  point),  the  loss  aggressive  or  practically 
unamiable,  as  our  neighbors  ?  Besides, 
there  comes  up  still  another  question,  "W^hat 
is  to  be  the  attitude  of  Great  Britain  under 
either  of  these  two  suppositions  ?  As  I  have 
said,  the  question  is,  first,  as  to  our  own 
resources;  next,  as  to  the  comparative  re- 
sources of  the  United  States ;  then,  as  to 
their  attitude  and  temper  towards  us,  upon 
one  or  other  of  these  two  suppositions  ;  then, 
as  to  the  attitude  and  temper  of  Great 
Britain,  in  reference  to  each  of  these  suppo- 
sitions ;  and  lastly,  as  to  the  reaction  (so  to 
speak)  upon  ourselves,  of  these  respective 
attitudes  of  the  two  countries  in  either  case. 


530 


If,  sir,  we  are  thinkiuo;  to  o;ive  other  people 
the  idea,  that  by  uniting  ourselves  together 
in  any  such  way  as  this,  we  are  going  to  make 
ourt-eivcs  able  to  take  care  of  ourselves,  we 
arc  merely  hnnibugging  ourt^elves,  and  try- 
ing to  liumbug  others.     The  people  of  the 
United  States  are  stronger  than  we  are,  and 
are  knowtj  .'■o  to  be  ;  and  if  we  are  to  hold  our 
own  against  or  beside  theui,  it  can  only  be 
by  remaining  strongly,  avowedly,  lastingly, 
attached    to    Great    Britain.       This  is  the 
firm    conclusion    I  have    come    to ;    and   I 
believe   it  is  the  conclusion   to  which  any 
one  who   will  give  his  thoughtful  attention 
to  the    subject  must    come    also.      And    I 
must   and    do    protest    against    the    notion 
which   seems    to   prevail  among   the  advo- 
cates of  this  scheme,  that  somehow  or  other 
it   is    going  so    to    increase  our  power,  as 
to  make  us   a   formidable   neighbor  of  the 
United  States.     The  dangar  is,  of  its  making 
that  people   more   jealous  of   us  and   more 
hostile   towards   us   than  before.      And  if, 
besides  that,  it  is  going  to  give  them  and 
the  people  of  England,  or  either  of  them, 
the    idea    that    as    a   result    of   it    we    are 
to   care    less  for   the   connection  with   the 
Empire    than    before — that     under   it    we 
are  before  long  to  go  alone,  it  is  going  to 
commit  us    to  about  the  saddest  fatal  mis- 
take that  a  people  ever  made.    (Hear,  hear.) 
Mr,    Speaker,   I   must  apologize   for   the 
length  to  which  I  have  wearied  the  House. 
(Cries  of  "  Gro  on !")     I  have  gone  through, 
as  well  as  I  could,  the  leading  points  of  my 
arguments,    so    far  ;  and   have  indicated    a 
number  of  points  of  contrast  between  this 
syptf  m  and  that  of  the  Unired  States.    1  trust 
I  have  not  been  too  prolix  in  my  attempts  to 
shew  that  the  Constitution   now  oiFered  for 
our  acceptance  presents  machinery  entirely 
unlike  that  of  the  United  States,  and  entirely 
unlike  that  of  the  ]>ritish  Empire — that  it 
is  inconsistent  with  cither — that  so  far  from 
its  proifcring  to  us  all  the  advantages  of  both 
and  tlie  di.-udvantages  of  neither,  it  rather 
presents  to  us  the  disadvantages  of  both  and 
the  advantages  of  neither;  that  so  far  from 
its  tending  to  improve  our  relations  cither 
with    the     Mother    Country    or    with    the 
United     States,    it     holds    out  to    us    very 
little    prospect   indeed    for    the    future,   in 
either   of  those    respects.       (Hear,     hear.) 
I  shall  not  attempt  to  review  my  arguu)ent 
on  these  heads,  lor  I  do  not  think  that  to 
anyone  at  a'l  willing  to  reflect,  what  1  have 
advanced    can   require    to   be    proved  more 
fully.     If  I  am  not  entirely  wrung,  the  only 


way  in  which  this  proposed  machinery  can 
be  got  to  work  at  all,  will  be  by  an  aggrega- 
tion, so  to  speak,  in  the  first  Federal  Cabinet, 
of  the  leading  men  of  the  different  existins: 
provincial    administrations.       The     attempt 
must  be  made  to  combine  the  six  majorities, 
30  a.s  to  carry  on  an  administration  in  har- 
mony with  the  understood  wishes  of  the  six 
several    provinces,    irrespectively  of   every 
consideration  of  principle,  or  of  sound  far- 
seeing  policy.     I  do  not  see  how,  although 
this  thing  may  be  done  at  starting,  it  can  be 
carried  on — I  was   going    to    say,   for   any 
length  of  time — I  might  say,  for  any  time, 
long  or  short,  unless  by  a  system    of  the 
most    enormous     jobbery    and    corruption. 
Whenever  any  sore  spot  shall  show  itself — 
and  we  may  rely  on  it,  there  will  be  more 
than  one  such  show  itself  very  soon — then 
feuds   and  divisions  of  the  worst   sort  will 
follow,   and  the   machinery  will  no  longer 
work.     Unfortunately,  there  are  in  it  none 
of  those  facilities  for  harmonious  workings, 
none  of  those  nice  adaptations   by   which 
the    stronger    power     is    so    tempered    as 
not    to    fall   too    harshly   on    the   weaker. 
Just  so  long  as   the   majorities  in    all   the 
different  provinces  work  cordially  together, 
well  and  good.     But  they   cannot  possibly 
work  harmoniously  together  long ;    and  so 
soon   as    they    come    into    collision,    there 
comes   trouble,    and   with    the    trouble,  the 
fabric  is   at  an  end.      (Hear,  hear.)      For 
myself,  I  am  decidedly  of  opinion  that  our 
true    interest    is    to    hold    this    machinery 
over,     to     consider    it     carefully,     to    see 
if    something    better    cannot    be    devised. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  am  sure  there  can.     But 
instead  of  that,  we  are  called  upon  emphati- 
cally and  earnestly  at  once  to  throw  aside  all 
considerations  to  the  contrary,  and  to  adopt 
the  measure;  and  we  are  at  the  same  time 
told,  in  unmistakable  language,  that  we  posi- 
tively cannot — must  not — shall  not — change 
a  single  word  of  it.     Various  considerations 
arc  urged  upon  us  for   this  unseemly  haste  ; 
considerations  connected   with  the   attitude 
of  the    United   States,  with  Great  Britain, 
with  the  Lower  Provinces,  and  with  our  own 
domestic  affairs.     "With   the    permission   of 
the  House,  1  will  touch  as  briefly  as  I  can 
on  these  four  classes  of  considerations,  and 
then  cease  longer  to  weary   the  House.     I 
begin,  then,  with  the  con.sidorations  connected 
with  the  attitude  of  the  United  States,  which 
aio  urged  upon  us  as  reasons  wh}'  wo  should 
rush  into  this  measure  of  Confederation.    To 
some   extent   1    have    already    incidentally 


531 


touched  on  these  in  another  connexion  ;  but 
they  call  for  some  further  notice,  and  in 
giving  it  them,  I  will  try  not  to  repeat  myselt. 
Judging  from  much  of  the  laniruage  which 
we  have  heard  on  the  floor  of  this  House,  one 
would  suppose  we  must  be  on  the  verge  of  a 
war  with  the  United  States.  For  my  part,  I 
believe  nothing  of  the  kind.  But  if  we 
were,  would  it  be  at  all  the  right  thing  for 
us  to  abstain  from  the  more  pressing  ques- 
tions of  our  defences  and  the  organization  of 
the  militia,  and  to  be  instead  discussing  here 
these  plans  of  a  Federal  Union,  Provincial 
Constitutions,  and  I  know  not  what  ?  These 
we  are  called  upon,  I  admit,  to  discuss 
in  a  tremendous  hurry,  to  settle  off-hand,  in 
workable  or  unworkable  si  ape,  nobody  seem- 
ing to  know  or  to  care  which,  everybody 
professing  to  hope  that  all  will  come  right 
in  the  end,  whether  he  thinks  it  will  or  not. 
But,  sir,  I  say  again,  if  war  were  imminent 
with  the  United  States,  the  one  question  for 
us  would  be  the  state  of  our  defences,  the 
organization  of  our  militia,  how  much  Eng- 
land can  do  for  us,  how  much  we  can  do  for 
ourselves,  how  much  England  and  we,  each 
of  us,  are  to  undertake  to  do  together.  That 
is  not  the  question  at  the  present  time  at 
all,  and  I  therefore  take  it  that  the  outcry 
raised  in  connection  with  this  scheme,  about 
our  defences  and  the  militia,  is  just  so  much 
buncombe.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite  believed  in  it,  I  am  cer- 
tain that  the  pressing  question  would  be 
taken  up  first.  Further,  if  such  danger 
were  not  even  pretty  far  off,  I  for  one 
would  be  disposed  to  think  that  the  tak- 
ing up  now  of  this  other  class  of  ques- 
tions comes  a  little  late  in  the  day.  With 
any  near,  real  danger  of  war  with  the 
United  States,  it  would  be  quite  too  late 
for  us  to  be  sitting  here,  gravely  discussing 
a  political  union,  to  be  consummated  mocths 
hence,  at  soonest,  and  then  only  to  lead  to 
the  construction  of  railways  which  will  take 
years,  and  defences  which  cannot  be  put  in 
order  for  months  or  years,  and  to  future 
developments  of  all  kinds,  which  it  will  take 
years  on  years  to  carry  out.  If  war,  I  say, 
is  imminent,  these  ulterior  undertakings, 
though  begun  now,  would  be  begun  all  too 
late.  Whenever  there  is  such  danger,  our 
defence  will  not  be  found  in  the  making  of 
federal  or  other  constitutions,  or  in  paper 
display  of  any  kind,  but  must  be  found  in 
the  strong  arms  and  determined  courage  of 
pur  pcQple,  responding  earnestly  to  the  call 


of  the  Mother  Country,  and  backed  with  all 
the  power  she  can   bring  to  bear   upon  the 


we 

machinery  for 
need,  in  order 
an  I   lieutenant- 


conflict.      Supposing    that    time    come 
have   plenty    of   governing 
that  defence.     We  do    not 
to  it,  a  viceroy  and  court, 
governors,  and  all  the  complicated   political 
apparatus   of  this  scheme.      We   cuuld  get 
along  just  as  well  under  our  preseut  system, 
and   I  think  better.     Certainly,  if  modified 
as  I  have  indicared  itmight  be — if  improved 
by  the  better  development  of  our  relations 
to   the   Empire — the    system    which  would 
thence  result  would  be  as  good  as  that  here 
offered  for  our  acceptance — indeed,  would  be 
much  better.      But,  sir,  the  real  danger  is 
not  of  war  with   the  United  States.     It  is 
from  what  I  may  call  their  pacific  hostility 
— from  trouble  to  be  wrought  by  them  within 
this  country — trouble  to  arise  out  of  refusal  of 
reciprocity — repeal  of  the  bonding  system — 
custom-house    annoyances — passport  annoy- 
ances;   from    their    fomenting    difficulties 
here,    and    taking    advantage    of   our    local 
jealousies;    from    the     luultiplied     worries 
they  may  cause  us  by  a  judicious  alternation 
of  bullying  and  coaxing,  the  thousand  inci- 
dents which  may  easily  be  made  to  happen  if 
things  are  not  going  on   quite  well  in  this 
country,  and  the  people  and  government  of  the 
States  are  minded  to  make  us  feel  the  conse- 
quences of  our  not  getting  on  quite  so  well  as 
we  might.    Whether  the  union  of  the  States 
is  restored  or  not,  this  kind  of  thing  can  go  on. 
The  danger  is,  that  either  the  whole  United 
States,  or  those  portions  of  the  United  States 
which  are  near  us,  and  which  are  reiWj  stronger 
than  we  are,  and  enterprising  enough  and  am- 
bitious enough,  and  not  very  fond  of  us,  and 
not  at  all  fond  of  the  Mother  Country,  not  at 
all  unwilling  to  strike  a  blow  at  her  and  to 
make  us  subservient  to  their  own  interest  and 
ambition — the  danger  is,  I  say,  that  the  United 
States,  or  those  portions  of  the  United  States 
near  us,  may  avail  themselves  of  every  oppor- 
tunity to  perplex  us,  to  embroil  us  in  trouble, 
to  make  us  come  within  the  disturbing  in- 
fluences  of  their   strong   local    attraction. — 
Now,  to  pretend  to  tell  me  that  the  United 
States  or  the  Northern  States,  whichever  you 
please,    are   going  to  b^  frightened,  from    a 
policy  of  that  kind,  by  our  taking  upon  our- 
selves great  airs,  and  forming  ouraelves  into  a 
grand  Confederation,  is  to  tell  ine  that  their 
people   are,  like  the   Chinese,  a  people  to  be 
frightened  by  loud  noises  and  ugly  grimaces. 
(Laughter.)     I  do  not  believe  they  are.  They 


532 


are  uot  to  be  frightened  by  any  union  we  can 
make  here.  They  have  among  them  politi- 
cians, to  say  the  least,  quite  as  bold,  shrewd 
and  astute  as  any  we  have  here.  The  dan- 
ger will  just  be  that  of"  our  having  agitation 
of  our  own  going  on  here,  and  internal  ti-oubles, 
while  these  annoyances  on  the  part  of  our 
neighbors  across  the  border  are  being  multi- 
plied upon  us  ;  and  that  England  may  at  the 
same  time  be  feeling  that  the  tie  between  her 
and  us  is  more  or  less  relaxed,  and  that  wrong 
and  hu'.niliation  put  upon  us  do  not  concern 
licr  so  much  as  they  would  have  done  wlien 
our  connectiim  with  her  was  practically  more 
intimate.  In  and  before  1840,  after  the 
troubles  which  had  been  distracting  Canada 
were  put  down,  it  was  declared,  and  perfectly 
well  understood,  that  the  Imperial  Government 
was  simply  determined  to  hold  on  to  the  con- 
nection with  this  country.  And  the  know- 
ledge of  that  expressed  determination  gua- 
ranteed us  a  pretty  long  term  of  comparative 
feedom  from  annoyances  and  trouble  of  the 
kind  to  which  I  have  been  referring.  If, 
now,  a  different  idea  is  to  prevail — if  the  no- 
tiop  is  to  go  abroad  that  we  are,  by  creating 
ourselves  into  a  new  nationality,  to  be  some- 
what less  connected  with  the  Empire  than 
these  provinces  heretofore  have  been,  then  I 
do  apprehend  that  a  very  different  future  is 
before  us,  and  that  in  all  sorts  of  ways,  by 
vexations  of  all  kinds,  by  the  fomenting  of 
every  trouble  within  our  own  borders,  whether 
originating  from  abroad,  or  only  reacted  on 
from  abroad,  we  shall  be  exposed  to  dangers 
of  the  most  serious  kind.  And,  therefore,  so 
far  from  seeing  in  our  relations  towards  the  Uni- 
ted States,  any  reason  why  we  should  assume  a 
position  of  semi-independence,  an  attitude  of 
seeming  defiance  towards  them,  I  find  in  tliem 
the  strongest  reason  why,  even  while  regard- 
ing, or  affecting  to  regard  them  as  little  as 
possible,  we  should  endeavor  to  make  all  the 
world  see  that  we  are  trying  to  strcngtiien 
our  union  witii  the  Mother  Country — that 
wc  care  far  lens  about  a  mere  union  with 
neighboring  provinces,  which  will  frighten  no 
oneintlie  least,  but  that  we  are  determined  to 
maintain  at  all  hnzards  and  draw  closer,  that 
connection  with  the  Mother  Country  which 
alone,  so  long  as  it  lasts,  can  and  will  protect 
us  from  all  serious  aggression.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  wc  are  told  that,  on  account  of  a  variety 
ol' considerations  connected  with  (ho  state  of 
opinion  at  home,  and  out  of  deference  to  that 
opinion,  we  must  positively  carry  out  this 
scheme.  Well,  there  are  two  or  three  (jues- 
tious  to  be   answered   here.     What  is   that 


opinion  at  home  ?  What  is  it  worth  ?  Aud 
what  sort  of  lesson  docs  it  teach  us  ?  There 
are  some  distinctions  which,  in  my  judgment, 
must  be  drawn  with  reference  to  this.  There 
are  difl'erent  phases  of  opinion  prevailing  at 
home,  which  must  be  taken  into  account.  I 
have  great  respect  for  some  home  opinions. 
Many  things  they  know  in  England  much 
better  than  we  do.  Some  things  they  do  not 
know  so  well.  They  do  not  know  so  much 
about  ourselves  as  we  do  ;  and  they 
do  not  occupy  their  minds  so  much  with  that 
class  of  questions  which  relate  merely  to  our 
interests,  as  we  at  any  rate  ought  to  do ;  an(i 
on  these  matters  I  am  not  sure  that  we  shall 
act  wisely  if  we  yield  at  once  to  the  first  ex- 
pressions of  opinion  at  honie.  But  now,  sir^, 
what  is  the  opinion  at  home,  cr  rather,  what, 
are  the  opinions  entertained  at  home,  with, 
reference  to  this  measure  ?  Of  course,  I  do> 
not  intend  to  weary  the  House  with  a  long 
detailed  statement  on  this  subject.  But  I 
must  say  this — and  I  do  not  think  that  any 
one  who  knows  anything  at  all  about  it  will 
contradict  what  I  state — there  is  at  home  a 
considerably  numerous,  and  much  more  loud- 
speaking  than  numerous,  class  of  politicians 
who  do  not  hesitate  to  say  that  it  is  not  for 
the  interest  of  England  to  keep  her  colonies 
at  all. 

Mr.  SCOBLE— Not  numerous. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Well,  I  think  they  are  ra- 
ther numerous  and  pretty  influential,  and  they 
make  a  good  deal  of  stir ;  and  souie  of  them 
being  in  pretty  liigh  places,  there  is  danger 
that  their  views  may  exercise  a  good  deal  of 
influence  upon  public  opinion  at  home.  There 
are  man}'  influences  at  work  at  home,  tending 
to  the  prevalence  of  the  idea  that  the  sooner 
the  colonies  leave  the  Mother  Country,  the 
better — and  especially  that  the  sooner  these 
colonies  leave  the  Mother  Country,  the  bettor. 
There  is  a  very  exaggerated  notion  at  home  of 
danger  to  the  peace  of  the  Enipire  from  the 
maintenance  of  British  supremacy  in  this  part 
of  the  world.  That  is  the  fact  ;  and  there  is  no 
use  in  our  shutting  our  eyes  to  it.  Wo  may 
just  as  well  take  it,  uncomfortable  and  hard 
fact  as  it  may  be.  If  we  choo.'^c  to  tell  our- 
selves it  is  not  the  fact,  wo  arc  only  hum- 
bugging ourselves.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  is 
one  point,  as  regards  public  opinion  in 
England.  Another  is,  as  to  t!ie  appreciation, 
at  home,  of  this  particular  schomo.  I  take 
it,  that  what  we  are  told  on  this  head  by 
those  who  urge  this  scheme  upon  us, 
about  opinion  at  home,  aiuounts  to  this 
— that  at  homo    this    schcaio    is    regarded 


533 


with  very  great  favor,  that  we  are  ex- 
pected to  adopt  it,  and  that  if  we  do  not 
adopt  it,  it  will  be  the  better  for  us  with 
refei'cnce  to  home  public  opinion.  Well,  the 
questions  for  us  are  :  AVhat  is  the  opinion  at 
home  about  this  scheme  ?  What  is  the  opin- 
ion entertained  in  high  quarters  as  to  its 
goodness  or  badness  ;  and  if  there  is  an  opin- 
ion in  favor  of  the  scheme  being  adopted, 
from  what  considerations  does  that  opinion,  to 
a  great  extent,  prevail  ?  I  am  not  going  into 
these  questions  minutely,  but  I  must  be  al- 
lowed to  make  a  remark  or  two  as  to  the 
opinion  expressed  by  Her  Majesty's  Govern- 
ment with  regard  to  this  scheme.  I  have  al- 
ready, to  some  extent,  alluded  to  the  dispatch 
of  the  Colonial  Secretary ;  but  in  this  con- 
nection, I  must  allude  to  it  a  little  further. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  clear  from  that  dis- 
patch that  the  Colonial  Secretary  wrote  under 
these  impressions  :  first  of  all,  he  was  under 
the  idea  that  this  scheme  had  been  drawn  up 
by  the  representatives  of  every  province, 
chosen  by  the  respective  governors,  without 
distinction  of  party.  That  was  not  quite  the 
case.  There  were  representatives  from  the 
two  leading  parties  in  each  of  the  other  pro- 
vinces, but  it  was  not  so  as  regarded  Lower 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Colonial  Se- 
cretary was,  besides,  evidently  under  the  im- 
pression that  when  these  gentlemen  came  to- 
gether, they  gave  the  matters  before  them  the 
most  mature  deliberation.  He  says  : — ''  They 
have  conducted  their  deliberations  with  patient 
sagacity,  and  have  arrived  at  unanimous  con- 
clusions on  questions  involving  many  diflScul- 
ties."  The  "patient  sagacity"'  was  exercised 
for  seventeen  or  nineteen  days,  and  the  "  un- 
animous eonckisions  "  were,  after  all,  certainly 
not  unanimous.  The  Secretary  goes  on  to 
say:— 

Her  Majesty's  Governmeut  have  given  to  jour 
despatch  and  to  the  resolutions  of  the  Confer- 
et'.ce,  their  most  deliberate  consideration.  They 
hiive  regarded  them  as  a  whole,  and  as  having 
been  designed  by  those  who  framed  them,  to 
establish  as  complete  and  perfect  a  union  of  the 
whole,  into  one  goveruu;ent,  as  the  circumstances 
of  the  case,  and  h  due  consideration  of  existing 
intirests,  would  admit.  They  accept  them,  there- 
lore,  as  being  in  the  deliberate  judgment  of  those 
best  'lualified  to  decide  upnn  the  subject,  the 
best  frameworlv  of  a  measure  to  be  passed  by 
the  Imperla.1  Parliament  for  attaining  that  most 
desirable  result. 

Her  Majesty's  Government  thus  take  for 
granted  a  "  deliberate  "  examination,  which 
most  unquestionably  never  has  been  given  to 


this  crude  project.  Now,  with  all  this,  with 
the  impression  that  men  of  all  parties  had 
here  acted  in  combination,  when  in  truth  they 
have  done  no  such  thing  ;  that  patient  sagac- 
ity had  been  expended  on  the  framing  of  the 
scheme,  when  in  truth  there  was  nothing  of 
the  kind ;  that  the  conclusions  were  unani- 
mously arrived  at,  which  again  was  not  the 
fact ;  with  all  this.  Her  Majesty's  Government 
have  only  come  to  the  point  of  giving  a  very 
general,  and,  as  any  one  who  reads  the  dis- 
patch can  see,  a  very  qualified  approval  of  the 
scheme.  First,  an  objection  is  raised  as  to 
the  want  of  accurate  determination  of  the 
limits  between  the  authority  of  the  Central 
and  that  of  the  local  legislatures.  I  will  not 
read  the  words,  as  I  read  them  last  night,  but 
no  one  can  read  the  dispatch  without  seeing 
that  the  language  of  the  Colonial  Secretary  on 
that  point  is  the  language  of  diplomatic  disap- 
proval. (Hear,  hear.;  Though  he  gives  a  gen- 
eral approval,  he  criticises  and  evidently  does 
not  approve.  He  sees  an  intention,  but  calls 
attention  to  the  fact  that  that  intention  is  not 
clearly  and  explicitly  expresses!.  He  then 
goes  on  and  makes  another  objection  — the 
financial.     His  language  is  this : — 

Her  Majesty's  Governmeut  cannot  but  express 
the  earnest  hope,  that  the  arrangements  which 
may  be  adopted  in  this  respect  may  not  be  of 
such  a  nature  as  to  increase — at  least  in  any  con- 
siderable degree— the  whole  expenditure,  or  to 
make  any  material  addition  to  the  taxation,  and 
thereby  retard  the  internal  industry,  or  tend  to 
impose  new  burdens  on  the  commerce  of  the 
country. 

The  hope  that  it  will  not  be  is  the  diplomatic 
way  of  hinting  a  fear  that  it  may  be.  When 
Her  Majesty's  Government  is  driven  to 
"  hope"  that  these  arrangements  will  not  in- 
crease in  any  considerable  degree  the  whole 
expenditure,  or  make  any  material  addition 
to  taxation,  and  thereby  retard  internal  indus- 
try, or  tend  to  impose  new  burdens  on  the 
commerce  of  the  country,  it  is  perfectly  clear 
that  they  see  that  in  the  scheme  which  makes 
them  tolerably  sure  it  will.  And  then  we 
have  a  third  objection : — 

Her  Majesty's  Government  are  anxious  to  lose 
no  time  in  conveying  to  you  their  general  ap- 
proval of  the  proceedings  of  the  Conference. 
There  are,  however,  two  provisions  of  great  im- 
portance which  seem  to  require  revision.  The 
first  of  these  is  the  provision  contained  in  the 
44th  resolution,  with  respect  to  the  exercise  of 
the  prerogative  of  pardon. 

That  is  emphatically  declared  to  be  entirely 


534 


wrong.  And  tlien  comes  the  fourth  objection  : 
"  The  second  point  which  Her  Majesty's  Gov- 
ernment desire  should  be  reconsidered'' — and 
this  phrase  is  positively,  so  far  as  words  can 
give  it,  a  command  on  the  part  of  Her  Ma- 
jesty's Government  that  it  shall  be  recon- 
sidered : —  , 

The  second  poiat  ^-hich  Her  Majristy's  Govern- 
ment desire  should  be  reconsidered  is  the  consti- 
tution of  the  Legislative  Council.  They  appre- 
ciate the  considerations  which  have  influenced  the 
Conference  in  determining  the  mode  in  which 
this  body,  so  important  to  the  constitution  of  the 
Legislature,  should  be  composed.  But  it  appears 
to  them  to  require  further  consideration  whether, 
if  the  members  be  appointed  for  life,  and  their 
number  be  fixed,  there  will  be  any  sufficient 
means  of  restoring  harmony  between  the  Legis- 
lative Council  and  the  popular  Assembly,  if  it 
shivU  ever  unfortunately  happen  that  a  decided 
difference  of  opinion  shall  arise  between  them. 
These  two  points,  relating  to  the  prerogative  of 
the  Crown  and  the  Constitution  of  the  Upper 
Chamber  have  appeared  to  require  distinct  and 
separate  notice. 

Is  not  that  a  pretty  emphatic  dissent  ? 

Questions  of  minor  consequence  and  matters  of 
detailed  arrangement  may  properly  be  reserved 
for  a  future  time,  when  the  provisions  of  the  bill 
intended  to  be  submitted  to  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment shall  come  under  consideration. 

So,  sir,  there  are  more  objections  still  which 
the  Colonial  Secretary  has  not  stated.  He 
gives  a  general  sanction,  but  specifies  four 
matters,  two  of  which  he  distinctly  says  must 
be  altered,  and  the  other  two  he  does  not  ap- 
prove of,  and  he  says  that  other  matters — 
too  numerous,  I  suppose,  to  specify — must  be 
reserved  for  remark  at  a  future  time.  Well, 
just  at  the  time  that  this  despatch  made  its 
appearance,  there  was  an  article  in  the  London 
Times,  a  passage  from  which  I  will  read  in 
this  connection,  though  it  may  seem  to  bear 
on  a  somewhat  different  branch  of  the  question 
from  that  with  which  I  am  just  more  parti- 
cularly dealing.  The  London  Times,  referring 
to  this  despatch,  makes  use  of  these  expres- 
sions, and  I  beg  the  attention  of  the  House  to 
them,  because  they  give  the  key-note  of  a 
great  deal  of  the  public  opinion  at  home  with 
reference  to  this  matter  : — 

It  is  true  we  are  not  actually  giving  up  the 
American  colonies, — nay,  the  despatch  we  are 
quoting  does  not  conuin  the  sliglitc.st  hint  that 
such  a.  possibility  ever  crossed  the  mind  of  the 
writer;  but  yet  it  is  perfectly  evident — and  there 
is  no  use  in  concealing  the  fuel — that  llic  Con- 
it^deration  movement  considerably  diminishes  the 
difficulty  which  would  be  felt  by  the  colonies  in 


separating  from  the  Mother  Country.  Even  now 
the  North  American  Confederation  represents  a 
state  formidable  from  the  numbers  of  its  hardy 
and  energetic  population,  and  capable,  if  so 
united,  of  vigorously  defending  the  territories  it 
possesses.  A  few  years  will  add  greatly  to  that 
population,  and  place  Canada,  Hochelaga, 
Acadia,  or  by  whatever  other  name  the  Con- 
federacy may  think  fit  to  call  itself,  quite  out  of  the 
reach  of  invasion  or  conquest.  Such  a  state  would 
not  only  be  strong  aga-nst  the  Mother  Country 
under  the  impossible  supposition  of  our  seeking  to 
coerce  it  by  force,  but  it  might  be  separated  from 
us  without  incurring  the  disgrace  of  leaving  a 
small  and  helpless  community  at  the  mercy  of 
powerful  and  warlike  neighbors. 

Here,  then,  is  the  somewhat  less  diplomatic 
utterance  of  the  Times,  on  the  occasion  of  the 
appearance  of  this  despatch.  It  is  perfectly 
true  that  no  hint  was  given  officially,  when 
this  scheme  was  sent  home,  that  it  contem- 
plated separation.  Perfectly  true,  that  in  the 
answer  there  is  no  hint  that  separation  is  con- 
templated. But  it  is  perfectly  true,  also,  that 
the  leading  journal  instantly  sees  in  it,  and 
seizes  at,  the  possibility— first,  of  its  greatly 
facilitating  our  going — and,  secondly,  of  its 
greatly  facilitating,  on  the  part  of  the  Mother 
Country,  the  letting  of  us  go.  I  shall  come 
back  to  this  branch  of  the  subject  presently, 
after  I  shall  have  quoted  from  a  much  more 
important  expression  of  public  opinion  than 
any  article  in  the  Times.  Meantime,  I  must 
refer  to  the[language  of  Her  Majesty's  Speech 
from  the  Throne.  It  has  been  read  during 
this  debate  already,  and  has  been  read  as  if 
it  contained  the  most  emphatic  approval 
possible  of  this  whole  scheme — so  emphatic 
an  approval,  that  even  to  assume  to  discuss  it 
now  would  seem  to  amount  almost  to  treason. 
This  language,  of  course,  it  is  needless  to  say, 
is  that  of  Her  Majesty's  Imperial  advisers, 
and  is  to  be  read  in  connection  with  what 
Her  Majesty's  Governuiciit  have  said  about 
this  plan  in  the  Colonial  Secretary's  des- 
patch— that  before  it  is  passed  into  an 
enactment,  it  will  require  a  good  deal  of 
revision.  Vic  may  be  told  here  that  the 
document  before  us  is  a  treaty,  on  which  not 
a  line  or  letter  of  amendment  can  be  nuulo 
by  us.  But  Her  ^Majesty's  Government 
clearly  understand  that  they  are  not  bound 
by  it,  and  that  thuy  arc  to  alter  it  as  much 
as  they  please.  They  won't  give  tlie  pardon- 
ing power  to  these  lieutenant-governors ;  they 
won't  constitute  the  Legislative  Council  in 
this  way  ;  they  won't  look  with  iiidit^'ercnoc 
to  the  incurring  of  unheard-of  expenses,  and 
the   hampering    of    commerce  which   they 


535 


consider  to  be  implied  in  this  scheme.  No, 
they  are  to  look  into  this  thing,  to  look  into 
the  details  of  what  they  evidently  think  to 
bo  a  pretty  crude  gcheme ;  while  wo,  who 
are  most  interested,  are  required  by  our 
local  rulers  not  to  look  into  it  at  all,  but 
just  to  accept  it  at  their  hands  as  a 
whole.  The  language  addressed  from 
the  Throne  to  the  Imperial  Parliament 
is  this  :  "  Her  Majesty  has  had  great  satis- 
faction in  givino;  Her  sanction" — to  what  ? 
— <'to  the  meeting  of  a  conference  of  dele- 
gate' from  the  several  North  American 
Provinces,  who,  on  invitation  from  Her 
Majesty's  Governor  General,  assembled  at 
Quebec."  Certainly  ;  we  knew  that  before ; 
they  assembled  without  Her  Majesty's  sanc- 
tion, but  they  got  her  sanction  afterwards  to 
their  having  so  assembled.  *'  These  dele- 
gates adopted  resolutions  having  for  their 
object  a  closer  union  of  those  provinces 
under  a  central  government.  If  those  reso- 
lutions shall  be  approved  by  the  provincial 
legislatures,  a  bill  will  be  laid  before  you  for 
carrying  this  important  measure  into  effect " 
— not  for  giving  full  effect  to  the  details  of 
this  scheme,  but  tor  carrying  the  measure — 
the  closer  union — in  the  shape  the  Imperial 
Government  may  give  it,  into  effect.  That 
is  all.  (Hear,  hear.)  Take  this  along  with 
the  despatch  of  the  Colonial  Secretary.  If 
it  is  a  declaration  that  this  thing  is  a  treaty, 
which  may  not  be  amended  by  us  without 
flying  in  the  face  of  Her  Majesty's  Govern- 
ment, I  do  not  understand  the  meaning  of 
words.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  connection  with 
the  Speech  from  the  Throne,  we  had,  the 
other  night,  some  notice  taken,  on  the  floor 
of  this  House,  of  language  used  in  discuss- 
ing the  address  in  the  Imperial  Parliament. 
Lords  Claremont,  Houghton,  Granville 
and  Derby  had  something  to  say  in  respect 
of  this  scheme  in  the  House  of  Lords ;  as 
also,  Mr.  Hanbury  Tracy  in  the  House  of 
Commons.  I  do  not  attach  great  weight  to 
what  was  there  said,  because  there  really 
was  little  said  any  way,  and  that  little  could 
not  indicate  any  great  amount  of  knowledge 
upon  the  subject  treated.  However,  I  will 
quote  flrst  what  the  mover  of  the  address, 
the  Earl  of  Claremont,  said.  After  refer- 
ring to  the  war  in  New  Zealand,  he  went 
on  : — 

My  Lords,  although  these  operations  in  India, 
New  Zealand,  and  Japan,  are  matters  of  more  or 
less  interest  or  concern  to  the  nation,  and,  as 
such,  are  fully  deserving  of  notice,  yet  they  are 


small  ill  comparison  to  the  importance  of  the 
probable  change  in  the  constitution  of  our  North 
American  ColouidS.  Since  the  declaration  of 
independence  by  the  colonies,  since  known  as 
the  United  States  of  America,  so  great  a  scheme 
of  self-government,  or  one  shadowing  forth 
so  many  similar  and  possible  changes,  has  not 
occurred. 

Now,  I  cannot  read  this  sentence  with- 
out asking  what  analogy  there  is  between 
this  project  and  the  declaration  of  inde- 
pendence. Why  should  these  resolutions 
suggest  to  any  one's  mind  the  declara- 
tion of  independence  ?  Did  the  gentlemen 
who  signed  these  resolutions  in  order  to 
authenticate  them — pledge  their  lives  and 
fortunes,  and  I  don't  know  what  besides,  to 
anything,  or  risk  anything,  by  appending 
their  signatures  to  the  document  ?  Was  it  a 
great  exercise  of  political  heroism?  Why, 
the  men  who  signed  the  declaration  of 
independence  qualified  themselves  in  the 
eyes  of  the  Imperial  Government  for  the 
pleasant  operations  of  heading  and  hanging. 
They  knew  what  they  were  about.  They 
were  issuing  a  rebel  declaration  of  war.  But 
this  is  a  piece  of  machinery,  on  the  face  of  it 
at  least,  to  perpetuate  our  connection  with  the 
Mother  Country  !  Why  then  does  it  suggest 
the  idea  that  so  great  a  scheme  of  self-gov- 
ernment, or  one  shadowing  forth  so  many 
similar  and  possible  changes,  "  hardly  ever 
before  occurred  ?"  It  is  because  there  is, 
underlying  the  speaker's  thought,  just  that 
idea  of  the  anti-colonial  school  in  England, 
that  we  are  going  to  slip  away  from  our  con- 
nection with  the  Mother  Country ;  and  io  this 
respect,  therefore,  it  seems  to  him  that  it  is  like 
the  declaration  of  independence.  The  re- 
maining sentence  indicates  a  curious  misap- 
prehension as  to  the  present  posture  of  this 
question.  ''  If  the  delegates  of  these  several 
colonies  finally  agree  to  the  resolutions 
framed  by  their  committee,  and  it  these 
resolutions  be  approved  by  the  several  legis- 
latures of  the  several  colonies.  Parliament 
will  be  asked  to  consider  and  complete  this 
federation  of  our  Northern  American  pos- 
sessions." The  noble  lord,  the  mover  of  the 
Address,  seems  to  take  the  resolutions  for  a 
mere  report  of  a  committee  which  (on  their 
way  here)  had  yet  to  be  submitted  to  the 
consideration  of  the  delegates !  Next,  I  turn 
to  the  language  of  Lord  Houghton,  the 
seconder  of  the  Address ;  and  from  his  lips 
too,  we  have  an  almost  distinct  utterance  of 
the  idea  of  our  coming  independence.  He 
says  : — 


536 


That  impulse  which  inclines  small  states  to  hind 
themselves    together   for  the  purpose  of  mutual 
protection   and   for  the   dignity   of  empire,  has 
shewn    itself  in   two    remarkable    examples,   of 
which  I  may  be  permitted  to  say  a  few  words.    In 
Europe  it  has  manifested  itself  in   the    case  of 
Italy,  which  is  not,  indeed,  alluded  to  in  any  part 
of  Her  Majesty's  speech,  because  it  is  an  accom- 
plished fact  of  European  history.     A  convention 
has  lately  taken  place  between  the  Emperor  of 
the  French  and  the  King  of  Italy,  in  which  Eng- 
land can  take  no  other  interest  than  to  hope  that 
it  may  redound  to  the  prosperity  of  the  one  and 
the  honor  of  the   other.     At  any  rate,  one  great 
advantage    has   been  accomplished.      With    his 
capital  in  the  centre  of  Italy  it  is  no  longer  pos- 
sible to  talk   of  Victor   Emmanuel   as   King  of 
Piedmont.     He  is  King  of  Italy,  or  nothing.     On 
the  other  side  of  the  Atlantic  the  same  impulse — 
[that  same  impulse,  which,  in  the    case  of  Italy, 
the   speaker     characterizes     as    aiming    at     the 
dignity   of  empire] — the  same  impulse  had  man- 
ifested itself  in  the   proposed   amalgamation    of 
the   northern   provinces  of  British   America.     I 
heartily    concur    in  all — [tlie    all    being  as   we 
have    just    seen,    not    much] — that     has     been 
said  by  my  noble  friend  the   mover  of  this  ad- 
dress in  his    laudation   of  that   project.     It  is, 
my    lords,    a    most    interesting    contemplation 
that    that  project   has    arisen,     and    has   been 
approved  by  Her  Majesty's    Government.     It  is 
certainly  contrary  to  what   might   be  considered 
the   old  maxims    of  government  in  connection 
with  the  colonies,  that  we  should  here  express 
— and  that  the   Crown   itself  should   express — 
satisfaction  at  a  measure   which   tends    to  bind 
together,  in  almost  independent  power,  our  colo- 
nies in  North  America.     We  do  still  believe  that 
though  thus  banded  together,  they  will  recognize 
the  Viilue   of  Eiitish  connection,  and  that   while 
they  will  be  safer  in  tiiis  amalgamation,  we  shall 
be  as  safe  in  their  fealty.      The  measure  will  no 
doubt,  mv  lords,  require  much  prudent  considera- 
tion and   great  attention  to  provincial  suscepti- 
bilities. 

I  repeat,  Mr.  Speakek,  there  is  in  this 
q  loLatiou  a  second  pretty-plaiuly-expresscd 
anticipation  of  our  nearly  approaching  iude- 
pcudcuce.  We  are  supposed,  by  cue  of 
tlicsc  noble  lords,  to  be  taking  a  step  analo- 
gous to  that  takcu  by  the  authors  of  the 
l)eclaratiou  of  ludependeuce;  and  by  the 
other,  to  be  moved  by  the  same  impulse  of 
empire  that  has  been  leading  to  the  estab- 
lishment of  the  Kingdom  of  Italy. 

Mr.  SCOBLE — It  is  a  case  of  want  of 
informatiou. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Yos,  I  have  no  doubt  it 
is  a  case  of  want  of  correct  informatiou, 
and  not  the  only  one  of  its  kind.  And  uow, 
sir,  for  J^ord  Derby's  remarks,  which  also 
have  been  quoted  here.  Certainly,  they  are 
in  a  dilTercnt,  and  to  my  mind  a  more  Hatis- 


factory,  tone;  but  they  are  suggestive,  foraU 
that,  of  an  idea  that  is  unwelcome.  After 
remarking  on  certain  passages  indicative,  iu 
his  view,  of  unfriendly  feeling  on  the  part  of 
the  United  States  towards  Great  Britain  and 
towards  us — their  threatened  abrogation  of 
the  reciprocity  treaty,  arming  on  the  lakes, 
and  so  forth — Lord  1)erby  says  : — 

Under  these  circumstances  I  see  with  additional 
satisfaction — [Meaning  of,  course,  though  cour- 
tesy may  have  disallowed  tlie  phrase,  "less  dis- 
satisfaction," for  he  certainly  did  not  see  those 
other  matters  with  any  satisfaction  at  all] — 
I  see  with  additional  satisfaction  the  announce- 
ment of  a  contemplated  im  ortant  step.  I  mean  the 
proposed  Federation  of  the  British  American  Pro- 
vinces. (Hear,  hear.)  I  hope  I  may  regard  that 
Federation  as  a  measure  tending  to  constitute  a 
power  strong  enough,  with  the  aid  of  this  country, 
which  I  trust  may  never  be  withdrawn  from  those 
provinces,  to  ac  luire  an  importance  which, 
separately,  they  cou'd  not  obtain.  (Hear,  hear.) 
If  I  saw  in  this  Federation  a  desire  to  separate 
from  this  country,  I  should  think  it  a  matter  of 
much  more  doubtful  policy  and  advantage  ;  but 
I  perceive  with  satisfaction,  that  no  such  wi.-ih  i* 
entertained.  Perhaps  it  is  premature  to  discuss, 
at  present,  resolutions  not  yet  submitted  to  the 
diflerent  provincial  legislatures,  but  I  hope  [  see 
in  the  terms  of  that  Federation  an  earnest  desire 
on  the  part  of  the  provinces  to  maintain  for 
themselves  the  blessing  of  the  connection  w-ith 
this  country,  and  a  determired  and  deliberate 
preference  for  monarchical  over  republican  insti- 
tutions. 

(Hear,  hear.)  Now,  what  I  have  to  «ay  is 
this,  that  while  I  think  no  mau  ought  to  hud 
fault  with  any  of  the  sentiments  here  uttered, 
they  are  yet  the  utterances  of  a  statesman 
who  betrays  in  those  utterances  at  least,  as 
they  sound  to  me,  a  certain  amount  of 
scarcely-concealed  apprehension.  When  a 
man  iu  the  position  of  Lord  Derby,  master 
of  the  whole  art  of  expression,  speaks  at  once 
so  hypothetically  and  so  guardedl}',  falls  back 
upon  "  1  liope  1  may  regard,"  "  1  trust  may 
never  be,"  "  IJiniic  I  see,"  and  so  forth,  one 
feels  that  there  is  an  under-current  of 
thought,  not  half  concealed  by  such  expres- 
sions, to  the  eifect  that  there  is  too  much 
danger  of  the  very  things  so  hoped  and 
trusted  against  coming  to  pass  at  no  very 
distant  period. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CAKTIEII— I  sec  the 
reverse  of  that.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  DUiN KIN— Well,  the  hon.  gentle- 
man sees  dilTerently  from  what  I  do.  W 
there  had  been  no  doubt  whatever  in  the 
mind  of  Lord  Derby,  as  to  our  want  of 
strength,  the  growth  of  the  auticolouial 
party  at  home,  and  the  tendency  of   this 


537 


scheae  towards  separation,  his  liope  and  trust 
to  tlie  cpntrary,  would  either  have  been 
unuttered,  or  would  have  been  uttered  in 
another  tone.  I  am  well  enough  satisfied 
that  Lord  Derby  himself  has  not  the  most 
remote  idea  of  falling  in  with  the  views  of 
the  so-called  colonial  roformers  in  England, 
who  desire  to  see  the  colonics  pay  for  every 
thins;  or  be  cast  off:  but  he  knows  the  hold 
that  their  views  have  gained  at  home,  and  he 
speaks  accordingly.  And  there  is  no  doubt, 
sir,  that  this  feeling  has  been  got  up  in  Eng- 
land to  an  extent  very  much  to  be  regretted. 
In  this  connection  I  have  yet  to  notice  some 
passages — and  I  shall  deal  with  them  as 
briefly  as  I  can — from  the  very  important 
article  I  quoted  last  night,  which  is  contained 
in  the  E  linburgh  Review  for  January,  and 
which,  I  am  sorry  to  say,  expresses  this  feel- 
ing in  the  strongest  possible  form.  But 
before  citing  them,  I  am  bound  to  say  that  I 
by  no  means  believe  the  views  they  express 
are  universally  or  even  generally  entertained 
at  home.  I  do  believe,  though,  that  they  are 
entertained  by  many,  and  that  there  is  much 
dang;ir  of  their  doing  avast  deal  of  mischief. 
That  they  are  loudly  avowed,  does  not  admit 
of  doubt ;  and  when  we  find  them  set  forth 
in  the  pages  of  so  influential  an  organ  of 
opinion  as  the  Edinburgh  Review,  the  case 
assumes  a  very  serious  aspect.  There  are 
other  passages  in  the  article  to  the  same 
effect  as  those  I  am  about  to  read,  and  which 
might,  perhaps,  be  quoted  with  advantage, 
did  time  allow.  Well,  here  is  one  occurring 
early  in  the  article  : — 

There  are  problems  of  colonial  policy  the  solu- 
tion of  which  cannot,  without  peril,  be  indefinitely 
delayed;  and  though  Imperial  England  is  doing 
her  best  to  keep  up  appearances  in  the  manage- 
ment of  her  five  and  forty  dependencies,  the 
political  links  which  once  bound  them  to  each 
other  and  to  their  common  centre  are  eAddently 
worn  out.  Misgi\'ings  haunt  the  public  mind  as 
to  the  stability  of  an  edifice  which  seems  to  be 
founded  on  a  reciprocity  of  deception,  and 
only  to  be  shored  up  for  the  time  by  obsolete 
and  meaningless  traditions. 

"When  an  utterance  like  this  finds  its  way 
into  the  pages  of  the  Edinburgh  Review,  a 
review  which  more  than  almost  any  other 
may  be  held  to  speak  in  the  name  of  a  large 
class  of  the  ablest  statesmen  of  England,  we 
have  reason  to  ask  what  it  is  all  tending  to. 
I  never  in  my  life  felt  more  pain  in  rea  ling 
anything  political,  than  I  felt  in  reading 
this  article  ;  and  I  never  discharged  a  more 
painful  duty  than  I  am  endeavoring  to  dis- 
69 


charge  at  this  moment,  in  commenting  on 
it.  But  truth  is  truth,  and  must  be  told. 
A  little  farther  on,  the  same  writer  pro- 
ceeds : — 

It  is  not  unnatural  that  the  desire  to  maintain 
a  connection  with  the  power  and  wealth  of  the 
Mother  Country  should  be  stronger  on  the  side  of 
the  colonies  than  it  is  on  that  of  the  Biitish  public, 
for  they  owe  almost  everything  to  us,  and  we 
receive  but  little  from  them.  Moreover^  the 
existing  system  of  colonial  government  enables 
them  to  combine  all  the  advantages  of  local  in- 
dependence with  the  strength  and  dignity  of 
a  great  empire.  But  the  Imperial  Government 
in  the  meantime  has  to  decide,  not  as  of  old, 
whether  Great  Britain  is  to  tax  the  colonies, 
but  to  what  extent  the  colonies  are  to  be  per- 
mitted to  tax  Great  Britain — a  question  which 
is  daily  becoming  more  urgent  and  less  easy  of 
solution. 

Further  on,  the  writer  goes  on  to  say  : — 

It  might  puzzle  the  wisest  of  our  statesmen,  if 
he  were  challenged  to  put  his  finger  on  any 
single  item  of  material  advantage  resultinor  to 
ourselves  from  our  dominions  in  British  North 
America,  which  cost  us  at  this  moment  about  a 
million  sterling  a  year. 

They  do  no  such  thing ;  but  that  is  neither 
here  nor  there.  Then  follow  these  sen- 
tences, more  galling  still : — 

Retainers  who  will  neither  give  nor  accept 
notice  to  quit  our  service,  must,  it  is  assumed, 
be  kept  for  our  service.  There  are,  nevertheless, 
special  and  exceptional  difiiculties  which  beset  us 
in  this  portion  of  our  vast  field  of  empire. " 

Nearly  a  page  follows  of  description  of  what 
these  difficulties  are,  being  mainly  those 
arising  out  of  apprehended  dangers  from  the 
United  States,  and  thereon  is  based  this  ob- 
servation : — 

It  is  scarcely  surprising  that  any  project  which 
may  offer  a  prospect  of  escape  from  a  political 
situation  so  undignified  and  unsatisfactory  should 
be  hailed  with  a  cordial  welcome  by  all  parties 
concerned. 

But  one  meaning  can  be  put  upon  all  this. 
In  the  opinion  of  the  writer,  England  does 
not  believe  that  these  provinces  are  worth 
anything  to  her,  while  the  connection  with 
the  Mother  Country  is  worth  all  to  us;  and 
she  would  hail  with  satisfaction  any  way  of 
escape  from  the  obligations  and  dangers 
that  we  are  said  to  cast  upon  her.  I  go  on 
a  little  further,  and  I  find  what  are  his 
views  as  to  the  undertakings  that,  in  con- 
nection  with  this  project,  we  are  expected 
to  assume.     What  I  am  next  quoting  farms 


538 


a  foot  Dotej  but  a  foot  note  is  often,  like  a 
lady's  postscript,  more  important  than  the 
text  of  the  letter  : — 

A  very  important  question,  on  which  these 
papers  afford  no  information,  is  that  relating  to 
the  future  condition  of  those  territories  and  de- 
pendencies of  the  Crown  in  North  America,  which 
are  not  included  within  the  present  boundaries  of 
the  five  provinces.  We  allude  more  particularly 
to  {he  territories  now  held  by  the  Hudson's  Bay 
Company,  under  the  Crown,  by  charter  or  lease. 
The  Crown  is  doubtless  bound  to  take  care  that 
the  interest  of  its  grantees — [it  never  seems  to 
have  occurred  to  our  friend  that  we,  too,  are 
grantees] — are  not  prejudiced  by  these  changes  ; 
but,  on  the  other  hand,  an  English  trading  com- 
pany is  ill  qualified  to  carry  on  the  government 
and  provide  for  the  defence  of  a  vast  and  inac- 
cessible expanse  of  continental  territory. 

One  would  think  so,  seeing  that  it  is  just 
this  territory  which  this  writer  has  been 
tellinpc  us  England  shrinks  herself  from 
defending : — 

Probably,  the  best  and  most  equitable  solution 
would  be  the  cession  of  the  whole  region  to  the 
Northern  Federation  for  a  fair  indemnity — [pro- 
bably enough,  from  a  point  of  view  not  ours — 
(hear,  hear)] — and  this  would  lead  to  the  execu- 
tion of  theGrieat  Northern  Pacific  Railway,  under 
the  auspices  of  the  Federal  power. 

Would  it  ?     (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Hear  ! 
hear! 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Is  that  the  policy? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Hear ! 
hear! 

Mr.  DUNKIN— a  little  further  on,  in 
the  article,  I  find  some  amplification  of  this 
grand  programme  : — 

The  result  of  these  proposals,  if  carried  into 
effect,  would  be  the  creation  of  a  new  state  in 
North  America,  still  retaining  the  name  of  a 
British  dependency,  comprising  aa  area  about 
equal  to  that  of  Europe,  a  population  of  about 
four  millions,  with  an  aggregate  revenue  in  ster- 
ling of  about  two  millions  and  a  half,  and  carrying 
on  a  trade  (including  exports,  imports  and  inter- 
colonial commerce)  of  about  twenty-eight 
millions  sterling  per  annum.  If  we  consider  the 
relative  positions  of  Canada  and  the  Maritime 
Provinces — the  foimer  possessing  good  harbors, 
but  no  back  country,  the  former  an  unlimited 
supply  of  cereals,  but  few  minerals  ;  the  latter 
an  unlimited  supply  of  iron  and  coal,  but  little 
agricultural  produce.  The  commercial  advar- 
tages  of  union  between  states  so  circumstanced, 
are  too  obvious  to  need  commer.t.  The  coniplotion 
of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  and  the  probable 
annexation  of  the  fertile  portions  of  the  North- 
Westem   territory  to   the    new    Confederation, 


form  a  portion  only  of  the  probable  consequences 
of  its  formation,  but  in  which  Europe  and  the 
world  at  large  will  eventually  participate.  When 
the 

Hon.  Mr.  McrOUGALL  —  The  hon. 
gentleman  should  do  justice  to  the  reviewer. 
He  leaves  out  an  important  passage. 

Mr.  bUNKIN— What  is  it  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  Id cDOUG ALL— After  the 
word  "  formation,"  the  following  words  are 
given  : — **  The  benefits  of  which  will  not  be 
limited  to  the  colonies  alone,  but,"  &c. 
Taken  with  the  context,  these  words  are 
important. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— Hear  !  hear ! 

Mr.  DUNKIN-r-An  ironical  cheer  is  an 
easy  thing  to  raise ;  but  I  fancy  my  charac- 
ter hardly  warrants  the  insinuation  that  I 
would  dishonestly  falsify  a  quotation.  I 
wrote  out  these  extracts  hurriedly,  the  one 
procurable  copy  of  the  Review  being  sent  for 
while  I  was  writing,  and  I  bad  no  oppor- 
tunity of  comparing  my  manuscript.  I 
am  sorry  if  in  my  haste  I  omitted  a  single 
word.  [After  comparing  the  passage  in  the 
Review  with  his  manuscript,  the  hon.  mem- 
ber said]  :  I  find  I  have  omitted  exactly  one 
line — certainly  by  the  merest  accident ; 
indeed,  if  any  one  can  suppose  I  did  it  on 
purpose,  he  must  take  me  for  a  confounded 
fool.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  to  continue  my 
quotation,  reading  again  that  last  sentence, 
with  its  dropped  line  : — 

The  completion  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
and  the  probable  annexation  of  the  fertile  por- 
tions of  the  Great  North- Western  territory  to  the 
new  Confederation,  form  a  portion  only  of  the 
probable  consequences  of  its  formation,  the 
benefits  of  which  will  not  be  limited  to  the  colonies 
alone,  but  in  which  Europe  and  the  world  at 
large  will  eventually  participate.  When  the 
Velley  of  the  Saskatchewan  shall  have  been 
colonized,  the  communications  between  the  Red 
River  Settlement  and  Lake  Superior  completed, 
and  the  harbour  of  Halifax  united  by  out  con- 
tinuous line  of  railway,  with  the  shores  of  Lake 
Huron,  the  three  missing  links  between  the 
Atlantic  and  Pacific  ocean  will  have  been  sup- 
plied. 

Three  pretty  large  links,  by  the  way,  and  it 
would  have  been  nure  correct  if  the  writer 
hadsaid  '  three  out  of  four  " — the  trifle  of  the 
Rocky  Mountains  being  still  left  for  a  fourth. 
(Hoar,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  xMcDOUGALL— That  is  very 
good. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— 1  don't  think  so  j  it's 
rather  too  good.     I  have  read  these  portions 


539 


of  the  article  to  show  what  we  are  expected 
by  this  writer  to  do.  We  are  to  buy  the 
Hudson's  Bay  territory,  and  take  care  of  it, 
and  make  a  grand  road  all  across  the  con- 
tinent, which  Great  Britain  shrinks  from 
contemplating  herself.  And  now  I  will 
readjust  two  passages  to  show  how  little 
sanguine  he  is  of  any  good  to  be  done  by 
the  scheme  as  regards  ourselves,  and  in  the 
conduct  of  our  own  affairs.  Here  is  one  of 
them  : — 

What  we  have  to  fear,  and  if  possible  to  guard 
against,  is  the  constant  peril  of  a  three-fold  con- 
flict of  authority  implied  in  the  very  existence  of 
a  federation  of  dependencies  retaining,  as  now 
proposed,  any  considerable  share  of  intercolonial 
independence. 

Rather  a  suggestive  hint,  and  which,  further 
on,  is  expanded  and  emphasized  thus  : — 

If,  as  has  been  alleged,  a  legislative  union  is 
unattainable,  because  inconsistent  with  due  secu- 
rities for  the  rights  guaranteed  to  the  French 
Canadians,  by  treaty  or  by  the  Quebec  Act,  and 
Federation  is  therefore  the  only  alternative,  the 
vital  question  for  the  framers  of  this  Constitution 
is  how  the  inherent  weakness  of  all  federations 
can  in  this  instance  be  cured,  and  the  Central 
Government  armed  with  a  sovereignty  which  may 
be  worthy  of  the  name.  It  is  the  essence  of  all 
good  governments  to  have  somewhere  a  true 
sovereign  power.  A  sovereignty  which  ever 
eludes  your  grasp,  which  has  no  local  habitation, 
provincial  or  imperial,  is  in  fact  no  government 
at  all.  Sooner  or  later  the  shadow  of  authority 
which  is  reflected  from  an  unsubstantial  political 
idea  must  cease  to  have  powtjr  among  men.  It 
has  been  assumed  by  those  who  take  a  sanguine 
view  of  this  political  experiment,  that  its  authors 
have  steered  clear  of  the  rock  on  wh  ch  the 
Washington  Confederacy  has  split.  But  if  the 
weakness  of  the  Central  Government  is  the  rock 
alluded  to,  we  fear  that  unless  in  clear  water  and 
smooth  seas,  the  pilot  who  is  to  steer  this  new 
craft  will  need  a  more  perfect  chart  than  the 
resolutions  of  the  Quebec  Conference  afford,  to 
secure  him  against  the  risks  of  navigation. 

So  far,  then,  according  to  the  writer  of  this 
article,  we  have  three  points  settled.  He 
considers,  and  those  for  whom  he  writes  and 
speaks  consider,  and  the  Edinburgh  Review 
makes  known  that  it  considers — first,  that  the 
retention  of  these  colonies  is  so  manifestly  dis- 
advantageous to  the  parent  state,  that  it  would 
puzzle  any  statesman  to  find  any  reason  for 
keeping  us ;  next,  that  a  result  of  this  mea- 
suie  is  to  be  the  early  carrying  through  by 
us  of  undertakings  too  vast  now  for  England 
not  to  shrink  from ;  and  thirdly,  that  the 
measure  itself^  viewed   as  a   machinery  of 


government  for  ourselves,  is  not  going  to 
work  well.  There  is  still  a  fourth  point. 
The  measure  embodies  a  proffer  of  fealty  to 
the  British  Crown — and  with  no  hint  but 
that  such  fealty,  and  the  correlative  duty  of 
protection,  are  meant  both  of  them  to  be 
perpetual.  How  does  our  writer  treat  of 
this  ?    He  says  : — 

If  the  Quebec  project  were  to  be  regarded  as  in 
any  sense  a  final  arrangement,  and  the  equivalent 
in  honor  or  power  to  be  derived  by  the  Crown 
from  the  acceptance  of  so  perilous  an  authority, 
were  to  be  weighed  in  the  balance  with  the 
commensurate  risks,  the  safety  and  dignity  of  the 
proffered  position  might  be  very  questionable  ; 
but  it  is  impossible  to  regard  this  proposed  Feder- 
ation in  any  other  light  than  that  of  a  transition 
stage  to  eventual  independence ;  and  in  this  view 
the  preci>ie  form  which  Imperial  sovereignty  may 
for  the  time  being  assume,  becomes  a  matter  of 
comparatively  secondary  importance. 

And,  as  if  this  was  not  warning  plain  enough, 
the  article  closes  thus  : — 

The  people  of  England  have  no  desire  to  snap 
asunder  abruptly  the  slender  links  which  still 
unite  them  with  their  trans-Atlantic  fellow-sub- 
jects, or  to  shorten  by  a  single  hour  the  duration 
of  their  common  citizenship.  *  »  «  « 
We  are  led  irresistibly  to  the  inference  that  this 
stage  has  been  well  nigh  reached  in  the  history 
of  our  trans-Atlantic  provinces.  Hence  it  comes 
to  pass  that  we  accept,  not  with  fear  and  trem- 
bling, but  with  unmixed  joy  and  satisfaction,  a 
voluntary  proclamation,  whicb,  though  couched 
in  the  accents  of  loyalty,  and  proffering  an  endur- 
ing allegiance  'to  our  Queen,  falls  yet  more  wel- 
come on  our  ears  as  the  harbinger  of  the  future 
and  complete  independence  of  British  North 
America. 

(Hear,  ;  ear.)     Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  can 
only    say    that    if    these    are    the    opinions 
which    honorable    gentlemen    opposite    are 
disposed  to  "hear,  hear"  appiovingly,  they 
are    not   mine.     I  find  in  them  an  unmis- 
takable  proof   that  there   is   an    important 
party  at  home  who   take  up  this   measure 
and  hope  to  see  it  carried  through  with  the 
mere  view  to   its  being  a  step  to  absolute 
independence  on  our  part,  and  a  cutting  of 
the  tie   between  these    provinces  and    the 
parent  state.     (Hear,  hear.)     Sir,  I  look  upon 
the   early  cutting  of  that  tie  as  a  certain 
result  of  tfiis  measure;  and  of  that  again,  I 
hold  the   inevitable  result    to  be  our  early 
absorption  into  the  republic  south  of  us — the 
United   States,  or   the  Northern  States,  be 
which  it  may.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  cannot  be 
that  we  can  form  here  an  independent  state 
that  shall  have  a  prosperous  history.     I  say 


540 


a>;ain,  I  am  far  from  believing  that  this  idea 
of  separation  is  by  any  means  the  dominant 
opinion  at  home;  but  I  am  sure  it  is  enter- 
tained by  a  prominent  school  of  English 
politicians.  (Cries of  "Name,  name.")  It  is 
easy  to  call  for  names ;  but  there  are  too  many ; 
one  can't  go  over  the  names  of  awhole  school. 
I  indicate  them  well  enough  when  I  give 
them  the  well-known  name  of  the  Goldwin- 
Smixh  schojl.  There  are  influential  men 
enough,  and  too  many,  among  them  — 
(RenWed  cries  of  '*  Name.")  Well  then,  I 
rather  think  Mr.  Cobden,  Mr.  Bright, 
and  any  number  more  of  the  Liberal  party, 
belong  to  this  school — in  i'act,  most  of 
what  are  known  as  the  Manchester  school. 
But,  joking  apart,  if  honorable  gentlemen  in 
their  simplicity  believe  that  utterances  of  the 
kind  I  have  been  reading  appear  in  the 
Edinburgh  Review  without  significance,  their 
simplicity  passes  mine.  I  read  these  utter- 
ances, in  connection  with  those  of  the  Times 
and  of  any  quantity  of  other  English  journals,as 
representing  the  views  of  an  influential  portion 
of  the  British  public,  views  which  have  such 
weight  with  the  Imperial  Government  as  may 
go  some  way  to  account  for  the  acceptance — 
the  qualified  acceptance — which  this  scheme 
has  met  with  at  their  hands.  It  is  recom- 
mended at  home — strongly  recommended,  just 
on  this  account,  by  those  who  there  most 
favor  it — as  a  great  step  towards  the  inde- 
pendence of  this  country.  Now,  I  am  not 
desirous  that  our  acceptance  of  the  scheme 
should  go  home  to  be  cited  (as  it  would  be) 
to  the  people  of  England,  as  a  proof  that  we 
so  view  it — a  proof  that  we  wish  to  be 
separated  from  the  Empire.  I  am  quite 
satisfied  separation  will  never  do.  We  are 
simply  sure  to  be  overwhelmed  the  instant 
our  neighbors  and  we  difi'er,  unless  we  have 
the  whole  power  of  the  Mother  Country  to 
assist  us. 

Mr.  SCOBLE— We  shall  have  it. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— I  think  we  shall,  if  we 
maintain  and  strengthen  our  relations  with 
the  parent  state ;  but  I  do  not  think  we  shall, 
if  we  adopt  a  scheme  like  this,  which  must 
certainly  weaken  the  tie  between  us  and  the 
Empire.  Our  langujige  to  England  had  bet- 
ter be  the  plain  truth — that  we  arc  no  beg- 
gars, and  will  shirk  no  duty  ;  that  we  do  not 
want  to  go,  and  of  ourselves  will  not  go  ;  that 
our  feelings  and  our  interests  alike  hold  us  to 
her;  that,  even  apart  from  feeling,  wo  are  not 
strong  enough,  and  know  our  own  weakness, 
and  the  strength  of  the  power  near  us  ;  and 
that  the  only  meauB  by  which  we  can  possibly 


be  kept  from  absorption  by  that  power,  is 
the  maintaining  now — and  for  all  time  that 
we  can  look  forward  to — of  our  con- 
nection with  the  3Iother  Land.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  are  told,  again,  that  there  are 
considerations  connected  with  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces which  make  it  necessary  for  us  to 
accept  this  measure,  that  it  is  a  solemn  treaty 
entered  into  with  them.  Well,  a  treaty,  I 
suppose,  implies  authority  on  the  part  of  those 
who  framed  it  to  enter  into  it. 

Hox.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER-^We  are 
asking  for  that  authority  now,  but  you  oppose 
it. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — Her  Majesty  says  in 
her  Speech  from  the  Throne  at  the  opening  of 
the  Imperial  Parliament,  that  she  approves  of 
the  Conference  that  framed  the  treaty.  Is 
not  the  royal  sanction  sufficient  authority  ? 

Mr.  DUNKIN — Her  Majesty's  approval 
of  those  gentlemen  having:  met  and  consulted 
together,  is  not  even  Her  Majesty's  approval 
— much  less  is  it  provincial  approval — of 
what  they  did  at  that  meeting.  At  most,  the 
resolutions  are  not  a  treaty,  but  the  mere  draft 
of  an  agreement  come  to  between  those  gen- 
tlemen. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CAR  TIER— Oh,  yes, 
it  is  a  treaty,  and  we  are  now  fighting  to  up- 
hold it. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Well,  it  is  a  draft  of  a 
treaty  if  you  like,  but  it  is  not  a  treaty.  Plen- 
ipotentiaries, who  frame  treaties,  have  full 
authority  to  act  on  behalf  of  their  respective 
countries. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  is  the 
same  as  any  other  treaty  entered  into  under 
the  British  system.  The  Government  is  re- 
sponsible for  it  to  Parliament,  and  if  this  does 
not  meet  your  approval,  you  can  dispossess  us 
by  a  vote  of  want  of  confidence. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  honorable  gentleman 
may  have  trouble  yet  before  he  is  through 
with  it. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Very  well, 
we  will  be  prepared  for  it. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— It  is  not  so 
long  since  the  honorable  gentleman  was  voted 
out,  and  it  may  not  be  long  before  he  is  served 
the  same  way  again.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Well,  I  was  saying  that 
this  is  no  treaty  to  which  the  people  either  of 
Canada  or  of  the  Lower  i'ruvinces  arc  at  all 
bound  ;  and  it  is  very  doubtful  whether  the 
people  of  the  Lower  Provinces  will  not  reject 
it.  1  am  (juite  satisfied  that  the  people  of 
Canada  ought  not  to  accept  it,  and   i  am  not 


541 


so  very  sure  but  that  before  the  play  is  played 
out  to  the  end,  they  will  refuse  to  accept  it, 
especially  the  people  of  Lower  Canada,  where, 
if  it  is  carried  at  all,  it  will  be  by  a  very 
small  majority.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  Caetier)  has 
come  over  to  my  ground  that  it  is  not  a 
treaty,  but  only  the  draft  of  a  treaty,  subject 
to  the  disapproval  of  the  House  and  country. 
Taking  it,  however,  as  a  treaty  merely  be- 
tween those  who  entered  into  it,  I  am  dis- 
posed to  make  one  admission,  that  it  has  one 
quality  such  as  often-  attaches  to  treaties 
entered  into  by  duly  constituted  plenipoten- 
tiaries, and  that  is,  that  there  seem  to  be  some 
secret  articles  connected  with  it.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— The  gen- 
tlemen who  entered  into  it  represented  their 
governments,  and  the  governments  of  all  the 
provinces  were  represented.  It  is  therefore  a 
treaty  between  these  provinces,  which  will 
hold  good  unless  the  Government  is  ousted  by 
a  vote  of  the  House. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— The  honorable  gentleman 
does  not,  I  suppose,  forget  that  when  this 
Government  was  formed  there  was  a  distinct 
declaration  made,  that  until  the  plan  they 
might  propose  should  have  been  completed  in 
detail  and  laid  before  Parliament,  Parliament 
was  not  to  be  held  committed  to  it  in  any 
way.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  I  was  going  on  to 
something  else,  and  I  cannot  allow  myself  to  be 
carried  back.  I  was  saying  that,  assimilating 
this  to  a  treaty  like  some  other  treaties,  it 
seems  to  have  secret  articles  in  it.  I  find 
that  one  of  the  gentlemen  who  took  part  in 
the  negotiations,  the  Hon.  Mr.  Hathaway, 
of  New  Brunswick — 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE  —  Mr.  Hathaway 
was  not  here  at  all. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — I  was  under  the  impres- 
sion he  was ;  though  I  acknowledge  I  have 
not  burdened  my  memory  with  an  exact  list 
of  the  thirty-three  distinguished  gentlemen 
who  took  part  in  the  Conference.  At  all 
events,  he  was  a  member  of  the  Government 
of  New  Brunswick,  which  was  a  party  repre- 
sented at  the  Conference.  Mr.  Hathaway, 
at  a  public  meeting  lately,  said  that — 

He  occupied  a  very  unenviable  positioT-.  He 
was  under  peculiar  embarrassments,  more  so 
than  any  other  speaker  who  would  address  them. 
It  was  well  known  to  most  of  his  audience  that 
he  had  been  one  of  the  sworn  advisers  of  His 
Excellency  for  the  past  three  years.  As  such  he 
could  reveal  no  secrets   of  Council.    It  was  true 


H  s  Excellency  had  fjiven  him  permission  to 
make  public  the  correspondence  that  had  taken 
place  on  the  subject  of  his  resignation,  but  what- 
ever might  be  the  effect  upon  himself,  there  were 
secrets  connected  with  the  scheme  that  he  could 
not  divulge. 

There  were  secrets  of  the  scheme  that  he  was 
not  free  to  speak  of.  And  we,  too,  find  here  that 
there  are  secrets;  many  matters  as  to  which 
we  may  ask  as  much  as  we  like,  and  can  get 
no  information.  But  the  main  point  I  was 
coming  to  is  this.  Call  this  thing  what  you 
like — treaty  or  whatever  you  please — it  is 
not  dealt  with  in  the  Eower  Provinces  at 
all  in  the  way  in  which  it  is  proposed 
to  deal  with  it  here.  The  Lower  Provinces, 
we  think,  are  smaller  political  communities 
than  ourselves.  Their  legislative  councils, 
their  Houses  of  Assembly,  we  do  not  call  quite 
so  considerable  as  our  own.  We  are  in  the 
habit  of  thinking  that  among  the  legislative 
bodies  in  the  British  Empire,  we  stand  num- 
ber two ;  certainly  a  great  way  behind  the 
House  of  Commons,  but  having  no'other  body 
between  us  and  them  in  point  of  importance. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  Lower  Provinces,  I  say, 
are  not  so  big  as  we  are,  and  yet  how  dilfer- 
ently  has  our  Parliament  been  treated  from 
the  way  in  which  theu-  smaller  parliaments 
have  been.  And  the  apologj^the  reason  as- 
signed why  we  are  treated  as  we  are,  is,  that 
this  thing  is  a  binding  treaty,  if  not  yet  be- 
tween the  provinces,  at  least  between  the 
governments  of  the  other  provinces  and  the 
Government  of  Canada.  But  how  does  the 
Lieutenant-Governor  of  Nova  Scotia  addi-ess 
his  houses  of  parliament  ?  "  It  is  not  my  pro- 
vinces," says  he,  "  and  I  have  no  mission  to 
do  more  than  afi"ord  you  the  amplest  and  freest 
scope  for  the  consideration  of  a  proposal" 
—  ne  does  not  call  it  a  treaty — he  calls  it 
merely  "  a  proposal,  which  seriously  involves 
your  own  prospects."  I  suppose  it  does ;  but, 
so  far  from  calling  it  a  treaty,  he  does  not 
call  it  even  an  agreement. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— But  what 
he  says  implies  that  he  so  regards  it. 

Mr.  DUNKIN— Does  it  ?  Let  me  read 
the  whole  passage : — 

It  is  not  my  province,  and  I  have  no  mission  to 
do  more  than  afford  you  the  amplest  and  freest 
scope  for  consideration  of  a  proposal  which  seri- 
ously involves  your  own  prospects,  and  in  refer- 
ence' to  which  you  should  be  competent  to  interpret 
the  wishes  and  determine  the  true  interests  of  the 
country.  I  feel  assured,  however,  that  whatever 
be  the  result  of  your  deliberations,  you  will  de- 


542 


precate  attempts  to  treat  in  a  narrow  spirit,  or 
otherwise  than  with  dispassionate  care  and  pru- 
dence, a  question  so  broad  that  it  in  reality  covers 
the  ground  of  all  parties,  and  precludes  it  from 
becoming  the  measure  of  merely  one  government 
or  one  party. 

He  gives  his  parliament  perfect  carte  blanche 
to  deal  with  it  as  they  please. 

Mr.  WOOD— As  a  whole. 

Mr.  DUNKIN — It  is  a  pity  the  same  lan- 
guage was  not  addressed  to  us.  In  that  case, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  think  the  motion  put  into 
your  hands  would  have  been,  that  you  should 
now  leave  the  chair,  in  order  that  we  migrht 
go  into  committee  of  the  whole  to  give  the 
mattjr  careful  and  becoming  consideration. 
It  is  not  pressed  on  in  Nova  Scotia,  as  it  is 
here,  with  undue  haste.  The  Lieutenant- 
Governor,  in  the  next  paragraph  of  his  speech, 
goes  on  to  say  : — 

I  need  only  observe  further,  without  in  the  least 
intending  thereby  to  influence  your  ultimate  de- 
termination, thai  it  is  obviously  convenient,  if 
not  essential,  for  the  legislatures  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces concerned  to  observe  uniformity  in  the 
mode  of  ascertaining  their  respective  decisions 
on  a  question  common  to  all.  I  have,  therefore, 
desired  to  be  laid  before  you  some  correspondence 
between  the  Governor  General  and  myself  on  that 
point. 

That  correspo<ience,  too,  which  is  to  be  laid 
before  the  Parliament  of  Nova  Scotia,  has  not 
been  laid  before  us.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have 
given  the  language  addressed  by  this  Lieuten- 
ant-Governor to  his  Legislature  with  reference 
to  this  "  proposal."  In  what  language  do 
the  Commons  of  Nova  Scotia  reply  ?  How 
will  they  deal  with  it  ? 

The  report  from  the  delegates  appointed  to 
confer  upon  the  union  of  the  Maritime  Provinces, 
and  the  resolutions  of  the  Conference  held  at 
Quebec,  proposing  a  union  of  the  different  pro- 
vinces of  British  North  America,  together  with 
the  correspondence  upon  that  subject,  w\]\  obtain 
at  our  hands  the  deliberate  and  attentive  con- 
sideration demanded  by  a  question  of  such  mag- 
nitude and  importance,  and  fraught  with  conse- 
quences 80  momentous  to  us  and  our  posterity. 

This,  sir,  is  all  that  the  Government  of  Nova 
Scotia  ask  the  Legislature  of  that  province  to 
say.  And  I  do  not  think  that  this  course  of 
theirs  exactly  indicates  that  they  think  they 
have  made  a  treaty  by  which  they  must  stand 
6r  fall,  and  to  every  letter  and  line  of  which 
they  must  force  their  Legislature  to  adhere. 
If  they  do  regard  it  in  tliat  light,  they  have 
a  very  indirect  way  of  expressing  their  ideas. 
Put  this  is  not  the  case  merely  in  Nova  Sco- 


tia. In  Prince  Edward  Island,  every  one 
knows  the  Government  is  not  bringing  this 
down  as  a  treaty  ;  in  New  Brunswick  every- 
body knows  that  the  Government  has  been 
more  or  less  changed  since  the  Conference, 
that  a  general  election  is  going  on,  and  that 
a  great  deal  will  depend  on  the  doubtful  re- 
sult of  that  election.  Every  one  knows  that 
the  matter  is  in  a  very  different  position  in 
every  one  of  the  Lower  Provinces  from  what 
it  is  in  here ;  that  there  is  none  of  this  talk 
about  a  treaty  anywhere  but  here.  I  would 
like,  however,  by  the  way,  to  draw  the  at- 
tention of  the  House  for  a  moment  to  a  case 
in  which  there  undoubtedly  was  a  treaty.  I 
speak  of  the  proceedings  which  eventuated 
in  the  union  between  England  and  Scotland. 
In  the  reign  of  Queen  Anne,  at  the  instance 
of  the  two  legislatures,  then  respectively  in- 
dependent—  of  England  on  the  one  hand, 
and  of  Scotland  on  the  other — Her  Majesty 
appointed  commissioners  to  represent  each  of 
her  two  states,  and  they  framed  what  were 
declared  to  be  articles  of  a  treaty.  They 
took  months  to  frame  those  articles ;  and 
twice  in  the  course  of  their  proceedings  Her 
Majesty  came  down  to  assist  personally  at 
their  deliberations.  Their  meeting  was  au- 
thorized by  acts  of  Parliament;  they  were 
named  by  Her  Majesty  ;  they  deliberated  for 
months ;  and  the  Queen  attended  their  de- 
liberations twice.  And  after  they  had  en- 
tered into  this  treaty — so  called  on  the  face 
of  it — the  Parliament  of  Scotland  departed 
from  it  and  insisted  on  changes  which  were 
approved  of  by  the  Parliament  of  England, 
and  the  treaty  as  thus  changed  went  into  op- 
eration. In  both  parliaments  the  bills  to 
give  effect  to  it  passed  through  every  stage  ; 
originated  in  Committee  of  the  Whole,  and 
had  their  first,  second  and  third  readings. 
All  was  done  with  the  utmost  formality ; 
and  yet  there  was  there  unmistakably  a 
treaty  solemnly  made  beforehand.  Here  we 
have  an  affair  got  up  in  seventeen  days 
by  thirty-three  gentlemen  who  met  without 
the  sanction  of  the  Crown,  and  only  got  that 
sanction  afterwards.  The  document  they 
agreed  upon  is  full  of  oversights,  as  the  Colo- 
nial Secretary  states,  and  as  everyone  knows 
who  has  read  it.  Yet  our  Government* regard 
it  as  a  sacred  treaty — though  no  one  but 
themselves  so  regards  it — and  want  to  give 
it  a  sacredness  which  was  not  claimed  even 
for  that  treaty  between  England  and  Scotland. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  am  at  last  very  near  the 
close  of  the  remarks  I  have  to  offer  to  the 
House  ;  but  I  must  say  a  few  words  as  to  the 


543 


domestic  consideration  urged  to  force  us  into 
this  scheme.  We  are  asked,  "  What  are  you 
going  to  do  ?  You  must  do  something.  Are 
you  going  back  to  our  old  state  of  dead-lock?" 
At  the  risk  of  falling  into  an  unparliamentary 
expression,  I  cannot  help  saying  that  I  am  re- 
minded of  a  paragraph  I  read  the  other  day 
in  a  Lower  Province  paper,  in  which  the 
editor  was  dealing  with  this  same  cry,  which 
seems  to  be  raised  in  Nova  Scotia  as  well  as 
here — the  cry  that  something  must  be  done, 
that  things  cannot  go  on  as  they  are.  I  have 
not  his  words  here,  but  their  general  effect 
was  this — "  Whenever,"  says  he,  "  I  hear  this 
cry  raised,  that  something  must  be  done,  I 
suspect  there  is  a  plan  on  foot  to  get  some- 
thing very  bad  done.  Things  are  in  a  bad 
way — desperate,  may  be.  But  the  remedy 
proposed  is  sure  to  be  desperate.  I  am  put 
in  mind  of  a  story  of  two  boys  who  couldn't 
swim,  but  by  ill  luck  had  upset  their  canoe  in 
deep  water,  and  by  good  luck  had  got  on  the 
bottom  of  it.  Says  the  big  boy  to  the  little 
one,  '  Tom,  canryou  pray?'  Tom  confessed 
he  could  not  call  to  mind  a  prayer  suited  to 
the  occasion.  '  No,  Bill,'  says  he,  'I  don't 
know  how.'  Bill's  answer  was  earnest,  but 
not  parliamentary.  It  contained  a  past  partici- 
ple passive  which  I  won't  repeat.  It  was, '  Well, 
something  must  be  done — and  that — soon!'  " 
(Laughter.)  Now,  seriously,  what  do  hon- 
orable gentlemen  mean  when  they  raise  here 
this  cry  that  "  something  must  be  done?" 
Is  it  seriously  meant  that  our  past  is 
so  bad  that  positively,  on  pain  of  politi- 
cal annihilation,  of  utter  and  hopeless 
ruin,  of  the  last,  worst  consequences,  we  must 
this  instant  adopt  just  precisely  this  scheme  ? 
If  that  is  so,  if  really  and  truly  those  politi- 
cal institutions  which  we  were  in  the  habit  of 
saying  we  enjoyed,  which,  at  all  events,  we 
have  been  living  under  and,  for  that  matter, 
are  living  under  now,  if  they  have  worked  so 
ill  as  all  that  comes  to,  or  rather  if  we  have 
worked  them  so  ill,  I  think  we  hold  out  poor 
encouragement  to  those  whom  we  call  upon  to 
take  part  with  us  in  trying  this  new  experi- 
ment. We  Canadians  have  had  a  legislative 
union  and  worked  it  close  upon  five  and  twen- 
ty years,  and  under  it  have  got,  it  is  said,  into 
such  a  position  of  embarrassment  among  our- 
selves, are  working  our  political  institutions 
so  very  badly,  are  in  such  a  frightful  fix,  that, 
never  mind  what  the  prospects  of  this  parti- 
cular step  may  be,  it  must  positively  be  taken ; 
we  cannot  help  it,  we  cannot  stay  as  we  are, 
nor  yet  go  back,  nor  yet  go  forward,  in  any 
course  but  just  this  one.     (_Hear,  hear.)     If 


this  thing  is  really  this  last  desperate  remedy 
for  a  disease  past  praying  for,  then  indeed  I 
am  desperately  afraid,  sir,  that  it  will  not  suc- 
ceed.    The  hot  haste  with  which  gentlemen 
are  pressing  it  is  of  ill  omen  to  the  deceived 
Mother  Country,  to  our  deceived  sister  pro- 
vinces, and  to  our  most  miserably  deceived 
selves.    But  the  truth  is  that  we  are  in  no  such 
sad  ease  ;  there  is  no  fear  of  our  having  to  go 
back  to  this  bugbear  past ;  we  could  not  do  it 
if  we  would.    Things  done  cannot  be  undone. 
In  a  certain  sense,  whatever  is  past  is  irrevo- 
cable, and  it  is  well  it  should  be.     True  we 
are  told  by  some  of  the  honorable  gentlemen 
on  the  Treasury  benched  that  their  present 
harmony  is  not  peace,  but  only  a  sort  of  armed 
truce,  that  old  party  lines  are  not  effaced,  nor 
going  to  be.      Well,  sir,  if  so,  suppose  that 
this  scheme  should  be  ever  so  well  dropped, 
and  then  that  some  day  soon  after  these  gen- 
tlemen should  set  themselves  to  the  job  of 
finding  out  who  is  cuckoo  and  who  hedge- 
sparrow  in  the  government  nest  that  now  shel- 
ters them   all  in  such  warm   quiet,  suppose 
there  should  thus  soon  be  every  effort  made 
to  revive  old  cries  and  feuds — what  then  ? 
Would  it  be  the  old  game  over  again,  or  a 
variation  of  it  amounting  to  a  new  one  ?    For 
a  time  at  least,  sir,  a  breathing  time  that  hap- 
pily cannot  be  got  over,  those  old  cries  and 
old  feuds  will  not  be  found  to  be  revivable  as 
of  old.      Even  representation  by  population 
will  be  no  such  spell  to  conjure  with — will  fall 
on  ears  far  less  excitable.     It  has  been  adopt- 
ed by  any  number  of  those  who  might  other- 
wise be  the  likeliest  to  run  it  down.     It  will 
be  found  there  might  be  a  worse  thing  in  the 
minds  of  many.     Give  it  a  new  name   and 
couple    it   with  sufficient   safeguard    against 
legislation   of    the    local    stamp    being    put 
through   against  the   vote   of  the   local  ma- 
jority —  the    principle    tacitly   held   so,   and 
found    to    answer  in    the   case  of    Scotland 
— and  parliamentary   reform   may  be  found 
no  such  bug-bear  to  speak  of  after  all.     And 
as   for   the  bug-bears  of  the   personal   kind, 
why,  sir,  after  seeing  all  we  have   seen  of  the 
extent  to  which   gentlemen  can   set  aside  or 
overcome  them  when  occasion  may  re([uire,  it 
is  too  much  to  think  they  will  for  some  little 
time  go  for  so  very  much.     Like  it  or  not, 
honorable  gentlemen,  for  a  time,  will  have  to 
be  to  some  extent  busy  with  a  game  that  shall 
be  not  quite  the  old  one.     The  friends  of  this 
project,  Mr.  Speaker,  never  seem  to  tire  of 
prophesying  to  us  smooth  things,  if  only  it  is 
once   first   adopted.     To  every    criticism  on 
its  many  and  manifest  defects,  the  ready  an- 


544. 


swer  is,  that  we  "do  not  enough  count  upon 
men's  good  sense,  good  feeling,  forbearance, 
and  all  that  sort  of  thing.  But,  sir,  if  the 
adoption  of  this  scheme  is  so  to  improve  our 
position,  is  to  make  everything  so  smooth, 
to  make  all  our  public  men  so  wise,  so  pru- 
dent, and  so  conscientious,  I  should  like  to 
know  why  a  something  of  the  same  kind  may 
not  by  possibility  be  hoped  for,  even  though 
this  project  should  be  set  aside.  If  we  are  to 
be  capable  of  the  far  harder  task  of  working 
out  these  projected  unworkable  political  in- 
stitutions, why  is  it  that  we  must  be  incap- 
able of  the  easier  task  of  going  on  without 
them  ?  I  know  w^l  that  in  all  time  the  tem- 
per of  those  who  do  not  think  has  been  to  put 
faith  rather  in  the  great  thing  one  cannot  do, 
than  in  the  smaller  thing  one  can.  "  If  the 
prophet  had  bid  thee  do  some  great  thing, 
wouldest  thou  not  have  done  it?  "  And  here 
too,  sir,  as  so  often  before,  if  the  truth  must 
be  told,  the  one  thing  truly  needed  is  what 
one  may  call  the  smaller  thing — not  perhaps 
easy,  but  one  must  hope  not  impossible — the 
exercise  by  our  public  men  and  by  our  people 
of  that  amount  of  discretion,  good  temper  and 
forbearance  which  sees  something  larger  and 
higher  in  public  life  than  mere  party  struggles 
and  crises  without  end  ;  of  that  political  saga- 
city or  capacity,  call  it  which  you  will,  with 
which  they  will  surely  find  the  institutions 
they  have  to  be  quite  good  enough  for 
them  to  use  and  quietly  make  better,  with- 
out which  they  will  as  surely  find  -dny 
that  may  anyhow  be  given  them,  to  be 
quite  bad  enough  for  them  to  fight  over 
and  make  worse.  Mr.  Speaker,  I  feel  that 
I  have  taken  up  a  great  deal  of  the  time  of 
the  House,  and  that  I  have  presetited  but 
imperfectly  the  \'iews  I  am  anxious  to  impress 
upon  it  as  to  this  great  question.  But  for 
sheer  want  of  strength,  I  might  have  felt  it 
necessary,  at  whatever  risk  of  wearying  the 
House,  to  go  into  some  matters  moi'c  thor- 
oughly, and  more  especially  into  that  branch 
of  the  subject  which  relates  to  what  I  may 
call  the  alternative  policy  I  myself  prefer  to 
this  measure,  and  would  wish  to  see  adopted 
and  carried  out.  As  it  is,  I  have  but  to  say 
in  conclusion,  while  wannly  thanking  the 
House  for  the  attention  and  patience  with 
which  it  has  for  so  many  hours  listened  to 
nic,  that  I  have  said  nothing  but  what  I 
firmly  believe,  and  felt  myself  bound  to  say, 
and  that  I  trust  the  sober  good  sense  of  the 
people  of  these  provinces,  after  full  reflection 
and  discussion,  will  decide  rightly  upon  this 
the  largest  question  by  far  that  has  ever  been 
before  them  for  decision.     (Cheers.) 


On   motion   of  Hon.  Mr.  Cauchon,   the 
debate  was  then  adjourned. 


Thursday,  March  2,  1865. 

Mr.  ARCHAMBEAULT— In  rising  on 
this  occasion,  sir,  my  intention  is  not  to 
occupy  the  attention  of  the  House  for  a 
long  time,  nor  to  discuss  the  merits  of  the 
measure  which  is  now  before  us.  I  intend 
merely  to  explain  my  own  motives  for  the 
vote  which  I  shall  give,  and  this  I  shall  do 
as  briefly  as  possible.  I  am  bound  to  ac- 
knowledge at  once  that  when  I  arrived  in 
Quebec,  at  the  commencement  of  the  session, 
I  was  opposed  to  the  plan  of  Confederation, 
and  so  strongly  opposed  to  it,  that  I  was 
fully  determined  to  vote  against  it.  But 
after  a  more  serious  consideration  of  the 
question,  and  after  hearing  the  explanations 
which  have  been  afforded  to  us  of  the 
scheme  of  the  Government, -I  have  arrived 
at  the  conviction  that  I  had  decided,  if  not 
wrongly,  at  least  hastily,  and  that  I  ought 
not  to  aid  in  the  rejection  of  the  measure, 
merely  because  it  did  not  quite  coincide 
with  all  my  opinions.  After  listening  to 
the  discussion,  and  the  explanations  ot' the 
members  of  the  Administration,  I  perceived 
that  the  plan  was  one  of  compromise  and 
could  not,  therefore,  be  adapted  to  suit  all 
views,  nor  shaped  even  to  meet  those  of  the 
men  who  framed  it.  I  can  understand  that 
those  persons  who  are  opposed  to  any  degree 
of  Confederation,  and  who  would  rather 
have  repre«!entation  based  on  population  or 
the  annexation  of  Canada  to  the  United 
States,  may  be  opposed  to  the  project  of  the 
Government,  and  reject  it  accordingly  ;  but 
thuse  who,  like  myself,  are  not  opposed  to  it 
under  any  circumstances,  and  are  capable  of 
appreciating  the  necessity  of  it  at  the  present 
conjuncture,  together  with  the  advantages  it 
may  produce  to  the  country,  ought  not,  can- 
not, I  think,  reject  it,  only  because  some  of 
its  details  are  not  exactly  to  their  mind.  It 
is  our  business  first  to  enquire  whether  .«some 
constitutional  change.*  are  not  necessary, 
nnd  none  I  think  will  deny  that  they  are. 
1'he  political  leaders  of  the  two  parties  into 
which  this  House  is  divided,  have  acknow- 
ledged this  as  a  necessity.  It  remains, 
iherefore,  only  to  consider  what  changes 
should  be  made.  The  members  of  the 
Government  have  decided  this  question,  and 
proposed  a  Confederation  of  all  the  Provinces 


54>5 


of  Britisli  North  America.    They  have  come 
to  an  understanding  with  the  sister  provinces, 
and  now  lay  before  you  their  scheme  of  a 
Confederation.     We  are  not  now  to  inquire 
whether  all  the  details  of  the  scheme  per- 
fectly agree  in  every  point  with  our  particu- 
lar ideas,  but  whether  the  change  is  neces- 
sary,  whether  the  proposed  scheme  is  good 
and  fit  to  be  accepted  as  a  whole;  for,  as 
the  scheme  is  a  compromise  between  differ- 
ent parties,  whose  interests  are  at  variance 
with  each  other,  the  Grovernment  who  now 
move  its  adoption  must  be  held  to  be  respon- 
sible for  all  its  details.     Any  amendment  of 
the  plan  passed  by  this  House  would  really 
be  a  vote  of  want  of  confidence  in  the  Gov- 
ernment,   and   you    must   therefore    either 
adopt  the  plan  as  laid  before  you,  or  pass  a  vote 
ofwant  of  confidence  in  the  present  Adminis- 
tration.    Now,  I  for  my  part  am  not  prepared 
to  vote  a  want  of  confidence  in  the  men  now 
in  power.     To  induce  me  to  do  that,  T  must 
see  in  their  opponents  a  better  security  for 
good  government,  and  its  advantages  to  the 
country,   than   they   are   able   to   show ;    I 
must  hope  to  find  in  the  latter  something 
better  than   what   I    find   in    those   whose 
measures   they   withstand.      So    far,   I   do 
not  find    that   they   have    offered,    nor   do 
I  find   that  they  now  offer,  such  security 
or  such  hope.     Far  from  it;  if  we  are  to 
judge  them  by  their  former  acts,  we  must 
confess  that  we  cannot  give  them  our  con- 
fidence, that  they  have  displayed  great  want 
of  capacity  for  the  government  and  maaage- 
ment  of  the  affairs  of  the  country.     When 
they  were  in  pjwer,  they  had  no  decided 
policy,  they  were  incapable  of  dealing  with 
any    important    question :  they    lived    from 
hand  to  mouth.     Their  acts  in  the  Adminis- 
tration were  stamped  with  a  spirit  of  resent- 
ment and  injustice  towards  their  adversaries. 
They  instituted  commissions  of  inquiry,  for 
instance,  against  public  officers,  in  order  to 
get  a  pretext  for  dismissing  them  and  malviug 
room  for  their   hungry  partisans.      Again, 
have  they  any  better  plan  to  propose  to  us 
than  that  of  the  Grovernment  ?     No  !    They 
might  offer  usjperhaps,  representation  based 
on  population,  or  annesation  to  the  United 
States ;  but  I  do  not  think  such  remedies 
would   suit   our   taste.      In   these   circam- 
stances,  I  have  no  hesitation   in   declaring 
that  I  shall  vote  for  the  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation, as  presented  to  us  by  the  Grovernment, 
although  it  does  not  meet  all  my  views,  and 
does  not  proinis'^  all  the  guarantees  which  I 
should  be  glad  to  find  in  it,  and  although  I 

70 


do  not  consider  it  as  likely,  in  its  present 
form,  to  afford  a  sufficient  safeguard  for  the 
interests  of  the  different  provinceSj  and  to 
secure  stability  in  the  working  of  the  pro- 
posed union.  As  I  am  not  in  a  position  to 
influence  public  opinion,  so  as  to  oblige  the 
Government  to  modify  their  plan  to  suit  my 
views,  I  take  sides  with  the  men  who  have 
always  had  my  confidence,  and  with  whom  I 
have  always  acted,  because  I  have  confidence 
in  their  honesty  and  their  patriotism.  I 
cherish  a  belief  that  in  this  all-important 
question,  which  affects  our  best  interests  and 
our  national  existence  and  social  welfare, 
they  have  been  actuated  by  the  same  love 
for  their  country  which  has  ever  guided 
them  in  times  past.     (Cheers.) 

Mr.  BLANCHET  said— Mr.  Speaker, 
as  no  one  is  disposed  to  take  the  floor  just 
now,  and  it  would  seem  as  if  all  who  intend 
to  discuss  this  question  are  bent  on  having 
a  large  audience  in  the  galleries,   I  shall 
take  upoa  me  to  say  a  few  words.     Those 
who   moved  to  have  the  speeches  of  this 
House  printed  in  official  form  certainly  did 
no  good  service  to  the  country;  for  all  are 
trying  which  shall  make  the  longest  speech, 
and  I  do  not  thiak  it  is  altogether  just  to 
the  public  purse.     Each  one  would  speak  at 
a  particular  hour,  and  to  the  ears  of  a  cer- 
tain audience ;  but  the  history  of  the  Par- 
liament of  England   shews   that   her   great 
statefimen  and  orators  did  not  concern  them- 
selves about  that.     The  greatest  and  most 
important  speeches  were   delivered   in   the 
House  of  Commons  at  a  very  late  hour  of 
the  night;  ihus   Fox    delivered    his   great 
speech  on  the  East  India  Bill  .it  two  o'clock 
in  the  morning;  Pitt  his  on  the  a'ooliiion  of 
the  slave  trade  at  four  o'clock  in  the  morn- 
ing; and  we  should  lose  nothing  by  speaking 
before  half-past  seven  in  the  evening.     But 
as  the  honorable  member  for   Montmorency 
(Hon.  jIv.  Cauchon)  is  to  speak  this  evening, 
and  I  wish   to  explain   my  way  of  thinking 
on    the    question,    I    rise    to    do   so.     This 
question  of  Confederation  is  not  a   new  one. 
It  has   already  agitated   men's   minds    and 
been  a  subject  of  debate  for  a  great  many 
years.      Now  public   opinion   is  completely 
made  up  concerning  it.     I  have  no  occasion 
to  enter  into  details  respecting  the  scheme 
which  we  have  before  us.     It  has  been  dis- 
cussed with  much  SiOre  of  knowledge  and 
precision  than  I  bring  to  the  consideration 
of  the  subject,  by  the  members  of  the  Gov- 
ernment and  the  honorable  membors  on  the 
opposite  side  of  the  House.     I  need  not  say 


546 


that  the  territory  intended  to  be  included 
in  the  Confederacy  is  nearly  as  large  as 
all  Europe,  that  it  will  contaia  four  mil- 
lions of  souls,  and  that  having  confeder- 
ation, we  shall  become  the  fourth  power  in 
the  world  in  respect  of  merchant  shipping. 
We  have  only  to  compare  the  statement  of 
our  present  imports  and  exports  with  that  of 
the  United  States  a  few  years  ago,  and  we 
shall  find  that  our  position  is  as  good  as 
theirs  was.  I  hold  in  my  hand  a  work  lately 
written  by  Mr.  Bigelow,  at  present  vliurgi. 
d'affaires  from  the  American  Grovernmeut 
to  the  Tuileries,  containing  valuable  statistics 
of  the  commerce,  manufactures  and  resources 
of  the  United  States,  as  well  as  of  the  war 
at  present  raging  in  that  country.  In  the 
chapter  devoted  to  commerce,  he  writes  as 
follows : — 

After  the  reorganization  of  the  constitutional 
government  in  1798,  commerce  speedily  orevv  to 
vast  proportions.  The  tonnage,  which,  in  17^2, was 
564,4;-57  tons,  had  reached  1,032,119  in  1801 ;  the 
imports  valued  in  1792  at  31,500,000  dollars 
(157,500,000  francs),  were  in  1801,  111,363,511 
dollars  (556,817,555  francs) ;  the  exports  had  in 
the  same  period  risen  frona  20,753,098  dollars 
(103,765,490  francs)  to  94,115,925  dollars  (470, 
579,625  francs).  In  I8:j7  the  tonna2;e  was  1,268.- 
548;  the  imports  138,500,000  dollars  (692,500,- 
000  francs);  and  the  exports  108,343, l.;0  dollars 
(541,715,7.30  francs).  At. that  period,  American 
commerce  received  a  blow  from  which  it  did  not 
recover  for  several  years.  The  measures  of  the 
English  Parliament,  followed  by  Napoleon's 
decrees,  issued  from  Berlin  and  Milan,  and  by  the 
embargo  of  1807,  produced  a  deep  stagnation  in 
the  commercial  affairs  of  the  Union,  and  although 
the  amount  of  tonnage  did  not  very  perceptibly 
diminish  during  the  tifteen  followiug  years,  the 
imports  fell  in  1808  to  56.990,001)  dollars  (284,- 
950,000  francs),  and  exports  22,430. 96t)  dollars 
(112,154,000  francs).  Ihe  war  of  1812-'16gave 
employment  to  the  shipping  which  would  other- 
wise have  rotted  in  the  docks,  and  occasioned 
some  clipper  privateers  to  be  built;  but  the 
trade  of  the  country  continued  to  decline,  so 
that  in  1814  the  imports  rose  only  to  12,965,000 
dollars  (64,825,000  francs),  and  the  exports 
6,927,441  dollars  (34,6..7,205  francs.)  The  end- 
ing of  the  war  gave  activity  to  commercial  pur- 
suits. In  1815  the  imports  reached  113,041,274 
dollars  (565,206,370  francs)  and  in  1816,  147, 
103,000  dollars  (735,515,000  francsi;  the  exports 
of  these  same  years  were  52,557,753  dollars 
(262,788,765  francs)  and  81,905,452  dollars 
(409,602,250  francs).  This  amountof  imports, 
which  was  in  excess  of  the  requirements  of  the 
country  at  that  time,  fell  the  followiwg  year  to 
99,250,000  dollars  (496,25  ,000  francs),  and  from 
that  period  to  1830,  excepting  the  year  1818,  the 
average  amount  of  the  imports  did  not  exceed  78 


millions  of  dollars   (390  millions  of  francs),  and 
the  exports  reached  about  the  same  amount. 

Thus  we  find  that  the  average  amount  of  the 
imports  and  exports  did  not  exceed  $78,000,- 
000  at  that  time.  We  are  only  a  lew  years 
behind  the  United  States  in  that  respect.  I 
said  a  moment  ago  that  the  question  of  a 
Confederation  of  all  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America  was  not  a  new  one,  and  in 
fact  we  find  that  it  was  mooted  at  a  somewhat 
remote  period  of  the  history  of  the  country.  In 
1821,  the  leader  of  the  Upper  Canada  Kadi- 
cals,  31r.  W.  L.  Mackenzie,  declared  that  he 
wished  with  his  whole  heart  that  there  could 
be  a  Confederation  of  the  British  Provinces. 
Ten  years  later  the  scheme  became  a  special 
question  of  debate,  and  the  discussion 
established  it  as  a  positive  fact,  as  it  will 
soon  be  an  historical  one.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Others  besides  the  members  on  this  side  of 
the  House  are  in  favor  of  a  Federal  union  ; 
some  incline  to  a  Confederation  of  all  the 
Provinces,  others  to  a  Federal  union  of  the 
two  Canadas  only — all  are  well  disposed  to  a 
Federal  union  of  one  kind  or  other.  At  the 
time  of  the  crisis  of  1858,  the  Brown-Dorion 
Government  were  to  settle  the  difficulties 
then  besetting  us,  and  if  I  understood  the 
meaning  of  one  of  the  members  of  that 
GrOVGrument,  who  went  to  meet  his  constitu- 
ents in  order  that  they  might  ratify  his 
acceptance  of  a  portfolio  in  that  Adminis- 
tration, the  remedy  intended  to  be  applied 
to  the  existing  evils  by  that  Cabinet  was  a 
Federal  union  of  the  two  Canadas ;  but  he 
said  also  that,  although  the  policy  of  the 
Government  to  which  he  belonged  was  not 
yet  clearly  defined,  he  thought  they  would 
take  up,  at  some  future  day,  the  question  of 
a  Confederation  of  all  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America.  That  hon.  member 
was  the  Hon.  F.  Lemieux,  and  he  was  re- 
turned by  the  county  of  Ldvis  immediately 
alter  making  these  declarations.  Nearly 
about  the  same  time  Mr.  J.  C.  Tach6,  at 
present  Secretary  of  (he  Board  of  Agricul- 
ture, wrote  a  work  which  was  almost  prophe- 
tic of  the  question  of  a  Confederation  of  the 
liritish  North  American  Provinces.  It  is 
unnecessary  to  remark  that  that  gentleman 
had  acquired  much  experieuce  in  his  travels, 
and  much  information  by  hard  study  and 
preseveriug  labor,  and  was  therefore  perfectly 
((ualifiiid  to  form  a  judgment  ou  the  question. 
Mr.  Tacu6  has  written  a  work  of  some 
length,  in  which  he  roughly  sketches  the 
scheme  of  a  Confederation  of  the  Provinces, 


54.7 


of  which  I  trust  the  House  will  permit  me 
to  cite  a  few  lines.  These  will  show  that 
his  predictions  are  speedily  to  be  realized  : — 

What  hopes  may  we  not  be  allowed  to  indulge 
respecting  the  material  future  of  the  immense 
country  which  includes  the  two  Canadas,  New- 
Brunswick,  Nova  Scotia,  Newfoundland,  Prince 
Edward  Island,  the  Hudson's  Bay  Territory  and 
Vancouver's  Island,  when  we  reflect  on  the  wealth 
of  a  soil  which  is  almost  everywhere  remarkably 
fertile,  (we  except  the  extreme  north,)  on  the  re 
sources  which  the  forests  have  treasured  up  for 
the  settler  in  the  lapse  of  ages,  on  the  immense 
fisheries  in  the  Gulf,  sufficient  of  themselves  to  feed 
the  whole  world  with  fish  of  the  finest  quality  ; 
when  we  consider  that  the  whole  of  this  vast  con- 
tinent offers  to  us,  in  its  various  geological  form- 
ations mineral  wealth  of  the  most  precious  kinds, 
and  that  nature  has  arram';ed  for  us  channels  of 
intercommunication  of  incredible  grandeur.  The 
fertile  soil  of  these  provinces  intersected  through- 
out their  entire  length  by  the  rivers  St.  Lawrence 
and  St.  John,  bathed  by  the  waters  of  the  Gulf 
and  those  of  the  Great  Lakes,  the  superb  forests 
through  which  flow  the  immense  Ottawa,  the  St. 
Maurice  and  the  Saguenay,  the  mines  of  copper 
bordering  on  lakes  Superior  and  Huron,  the  iron 
mines  of  Canada,  the  coal  measures  of  Nova 
Scotia  and  New  Brunswick,  the  seaports  of  Que- 
bec, Halifax  and  St.  John,  the  ores  of  all  kinds 
dispersed  throughout  the  provinces — all  those 
form  an  aggregate  of  means  which,  if  we  suppose 
them  to  be  turned  to  account  by  a  competent 
population,  governed  by  a  political  system  based 
on  true  principles  of  order  and  liberty,  justifies 
the  most  extravagant  calculations  of  profit,  the 
most  exti  aordinary  predictions  of  growth,  as  com- 
pared with  the  present  state  of  things. 

Thus  spoke  Mr.  Tachi^  at  that  period.  Not 
satisfied,  moreover,  with  sketching  with  a 
rapid  pencil  the  general  working  of  this 
mighty  organization,  he  entered,  in  a  subse- 
quent part  of  his  work,  into  details  which, 
astonishing  to  say — although  I  have  no 
doubt  that  the  members  of  the  Conference 
had  read  his  work — exactly  coincide  with  the 
plan  now  submitted  to  us.  Accordingly,  in 
the  partition  of  powers  between  the  Greneral 
Government  and  the  local  governments,  the 
scheme  of  the  Conference  is  nearly  word  or 
word  Mr.  Tache's  work. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  hon.  member 
is  mistaken,  for  Mr.  Tachi^  assigns  the 
ascendancy  and  the  highest  powers  to  the 
local  governments,  whereas  the  Government 
plan  assigns  them  to  the  Central  Government. 

Mr.  BLANCHET— This  is  what  Mr. 
Tache  says  : — 

These  powers  of  the  Federal  Government  are 
not,  as  we  understand  the  matter,  to  bo  exercised, 


except  as  regards  the  following  subjects,  viz., 
Commerce,  comprising  purely  commercial  laws, 
such  as  laws  respecting  banks  and  other  institu- 
tions of  a  general  financial  character,  coinage, 
and  weights  and  measures ;  Customs,  including 
the  establishment  of  a  uniform  tarifiF,  and  the  col- 
lection of  the  revenue  resulting  therefrom  ;  great 
Public  Works  and  Navigation,  such  as  canals, 
railways,  telegraph  lines,  great  seaport  works  and 
the  lighting  of  the  coast ;  Post  Office  arrange- 
ments, both  in  their  entirety  and  in  their  internal 
and  external  details  ;  the  Militia  in  the  entirety 
of  its  organization  ;  Criminal  justice,  comprising 
all  offences  which  do  not  come  under  the  jurisdic- 
tion of  the  police  courts  and  justices  of  the 
peace.  Everything  else  connected  with  civil  law, 
education,  public  charities,  the  settlement  of 
public  lands,  agriculture,  city  and  rural  police, 
road  works,  in  fact,  with  all  matters  relating  to 
the  family  life,  so  to  speak,  of  each  province,  will 
remain  under  the  exclusive  control  of  the  respect- 
ive Local  Government  of  each  one  of  them,  as  by 
inherent  right  j  the  powers  of  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment being  looked  upon  as  merely  a  conces- 
sion of  rights,  which  are  specially  designated. 

I  consider  that  under  the  present  plan  of 
Confederation  the  local  legislatures  are  su- 
preme in  respect  of  the  powers  which  are 
attributed  to  them,  that  is  to  say,  in  respect 
of  local  matters.  In  this  respect  it  goes 
even  further  than  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  himself  was  prepared  to  go  in 
1859,  for  he  proposed  to  leavo  to  the  Federal 
Government  the  right  of  legislating  upon 
the  French  civil  laws,  &c.,  of  Lower  Canada  ; 
but,  as  his  Government  was  not  very  long- 
lived,  I  know  that  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  can  deny  all  this.  Very  nearly 
at  the  same  time  another  Government  ad- 
dressed to  the  Imperial  Government  a 
memorial,  in  which  it  asked  for  the  Confed- 
eration of  the  British  North  American 
Provinces ;  but  the  Imperial  Government 
replied  that  it  was  not  prepared  to  give  a 
decided  reply  ;  and  as  there  had  been  no 
agreement  between  the  provinces,  the  matter 
remained  in  abeyance  for  the  time.  Thence- 
forward no  steps  were  taken  in  the  matter 
until  last  year — until  the  crisis,  with  the  cir- 
cumstances connected  with  which  every  one 
is  perfectly  well  acquainted.  Different  gov- 
ernments had  been  defeated,  and  the  country 
was  already  weary  of  that  state  of  aflfairs, 
when  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
moved  his  vote  of  censure  upon  the  Govern- 
ment in  relation  to  the  $100,000  affair,  and 
the  Government  then  finding  itself  in  a 
minority,  was  compelled  to  seek  a  remedy 
for  the  existing  state  of  affairs,  and  the 
result  was  the  Coalition,  the  Quebec  Confer- 


54.8 


ence,  and  finally  the  plan  of  Confederation, 
although  he  does  not  now  choose  to  acknow- 
ledge his  oflFspring.  (Hear,  hear.^  That 
conduct  releases  the  latter  from  any  debt  of 
gratitude.  (Hear.)  It  is  not  my  intention 
to  discuss  the  question  of  Confederation  in  a 
commercial  point  of  view,  nor  in  a  financial 
point  of  view,  nor  in  a  political  point  of  view, 
for  in  these  several  aspects  it  has  been  ably 
discussed  by  those  who  have  preceded  me. 
I  shall  confine  m)'self  to  making  a  few 
remarks  upon  the  question  in  respect  of 
defence.  Every  one  acknowledges  that  in 
order  to  defend  a  country  efi"ectually  there 
must  be  unity  of  action,  uniformity  of  sy>'tem, 
and  a  combination  of  the  meaas  of  defence. 
Without  uniformity,  without  unity,  it  is  im- 
possible to  make  any  serious  attempt  at 
defence  in  case  of  attack,  and  the  divided 
country  falls  an  easy  prey  to  the  enemy.  So 
general  is  this  rule  that  history  shews  us 
that  weak  nations  have  always  united 
together,  have  always  coalesced  when  they 
were  attacked  or  were  in  fear  of  being 
attacked  by  a  powerful  enemy.  The  North 
American  colonies  did  so  in  1775,  when  they 
wished  to  offer  resistance  to  the  Mother 
Country.  They  organized  themselves  into 
a  Confederation,  and  it  was  in  consequence 
of  their  so  doing  that  they  were  able  to 
resist  what  they  considered  as  an  act  of 
oppression  on  the  part  of  England.  Had 
those  colonies,  instead  of  organizing  them- 
selves as  they  did,  hnd  each  of  them  a 
different  system  of  defence,  and  had  there 
been  no  uniformity  in  their  tactics,  England 
would  have  had  an  easy  bargain  of  them. 
And  is  itto  be  supposed,  if  they  had  not  band- 
ed themselves  together,  so  as  to  possess  a  cer- 
tain amount  of  strength,  that  they  would  have 
obtained  the  alliance  and  the  assistance  of 
France?  When  a  feeble  power  is  attacked 
by  a  powerful  enemy,  it  should  seek  to  ally 
itself  with  other  states  which  have  interests 
in  common  with  it,  in  order  that  they  may 
defend  themselves  in  common.  So  far  as 
we  are  concerned,  if  we  are  desirous  of 
assisting  the  Mother  Country  in  offering  an 
effectual  resistance  to  invasions  by  the 
American  people,  we  ought  to  have  unity  of 
coiumand,  in  order  that  we  might  be  able  to 
send  the  militia  from  the  centre  and  cause 
them  to  extend  towards  the  circumference. 
In  case  of  war  with  our  neighbors,  wo  should, 
of  necessity,  be  compelled,  by  the  very  force 
ot  circumstances,  to  unite  with  the  other 
provinces.  That  being  the  case,  why  not 
do  so  at  oaco,  in  time  of  peace,  while  we 


have  time  to  devote  to  it  that  calm  and 
deliberate  consideration  which  the  impor- 
tance 0'.  the  subject  demands.  Confederation 
is  the  sole  means  of  offering  resistance  to 
attempts  at  invasion  by  our  enemies.  The 
Federal  system  is  the  normal  condition  of 
American  populations ;  for  there  are  very 
few  American  nations  which  have  not  a 
political  system  of  that  nature.  The  Federal 
system  is  a  state  of  tr:insition  which  allows 
the  different  races  inhabiting  the  same  part 
of  the  globe  to  unite,  with  the  view  of 
attaining  national  unity  and  homogeneous- 
ncss.  Spain,  Belgium,  France,  and  several 
other  European  countries  were  formerly 
peopled  by  different  races,  who  constituted 
so  many  different  communities ;  but  they 
became  united,  they  entered  into  confedera- 
tions, and  in  the  course  of  ages  all  the 
communities  were  consolidated  into  those 
which  we  now  see — into  everything  that  is 
held  to  be  beautiful,  nnble  and  great 
throughout  the  whole  world.  When  the 
Federal  system  has  been  put  in  practice  in 
an  enlightened  manner,  it  has  always  sufl&ced 
for  the  requirements  of  those  who  adopted 
it.  The  case  of  Greece  has  been  cited  by 
an  hon.  member  of  this  House,  to  show  the 
fat-il  nature  of  this  system  to  the  nations 
who  adopted  it ;  but  he  ouuht  to  know  that 
the  decadence  of  Greece  only  began  from 
the  moment  when  she  abandoned  the  Federal 
system.  The  hon  member  for  Lotbini6re 
sought  to  prove  that  confederations  were  the 
source  of  all  sorts  of  disturbances ;  and  in 
support  of  what  he  said,  he  read  out  to  us 
the  table  of  contents  of  the  history  of  South 
America,  in  which  he  found  a  long  list  of 
echavffourees,  movements,  agitations,  risings, 
civil  wars  and  revolutions.  It  is  not  my  wish 
to  deny  the  facts  quoted  by  the  honorable 
member,  but  I  must  say  that  his  con- 
clusions are  not  correct,  and  that  it 
is  not  right  to  draw  conclusions  adverse  to  a 
system  from  merely  perusing  the  table  of 
contents  of  any  work  whatsoever.  The  his- 
tory of  all  nations  will  afford  tables  of  con- 
tents, which,  if  they  were  taken  as  indicating 
the  normal  and  habitual  condition  of  a 
people,  would  cause  us  to  make  strange  mis- 
takes and  to  draw  strange  historical  conclu- 
sions. Even  the  present  history  of  England, 
the  history  of  the  reign  of  He^r  Majesty 
Queen  Victoria,  might  afford  to  a  person, 
who  was  desirous  of  forming  a  jud";mcnt 
respecting  it  from  the  table  of  contents 
alone,  some  facts  which  might  induce  him  to 
bolievo  in  the   complete  disorganization   of 


549 


the  Britisli  Empire ;  for  in  it  he  would  find 
allusion  made  to  the  Chinese  war,  the  several 
insurrections  in  India,  the  insurrectional 
movement  in  Ireland,  the  Russian  war,  the 
Sepoy  rebellion,  and  a  large  number  of  other 
matters ;  but  all  this  would  prove  nothing 
against  the  prosperity  of  the  empire  under 
the  rule  of  Her  Majesty.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But,  without  losing  time  over  the  reply 
which  may  be  made  to  this  style  of  reasoning, 
I  say  that  it  does  not  follow  that  the  Federal 
system  is  impracticable,  because  it  has  not 
succeeded  among  certain  people  who  were 
not  in  a  sufficiently  advanced  condition  for 
the  application  of  the  system.  No  constitu- 
tion suits  every  people  equally  well;  constitu- 
tions are  made  for  the  people,  and  not  the 
people  for  the  constitution.  When  a  people 
is  sufficiently  enlightened  and  sufficiently 
educated  and  civilized,  a  constitution  ensur- 
ing their  liberty  may  be  given  them ;  but  it 
is  necessary  to  wait  until  they  are  able  to 
appreciate  and  enjoy  it,  before  giving  it  to 
them.  A  free  constitution  entrusted  to  an 
unenlightened  people  is  like  an  edged  tool 
placed  in  the  hands  of  a  child ;  it  is  a  dan- 
gerous instrument,  with  which  it  may  chance 
to  wound  itself.  Besides,  certain  forms  of 
government  are  better  suited  to  certain 
people  than  others.  Thus,  to  endeavor  to 
give  the  English  Constitution  to  the  French 
people  would  be  to  commit  a  great  mistake, 
for  the  French  people  are  not  adapted  to  the 
working  of  the  political  institutions  of  Eng- 
land. Again,  try  to  give  the  English  people 
the  French  Constitution,  and  the  English 
people  will  revolt.  Before  giving  a  consti- 
tution to  a  people,  that  people  must  be  taught 
how  to  use  it.  It  cannot  be  said  that  a  table 
of  contents  is  not  history,  but  certainly  one 
would  not  seek  in  that  part  of  the  volume  for 
the  philosophy  of  history.  Let  us  suppose 
that  some  one  is  desirous  of  reading  the 
history  of  the  Celestial  Kingdon>,  and  that 
on  taking  up  the  book  he  finds,  in  the  table 
of  contents,  that  at  a  certain  period  there 
was  a  terrible  battle  between  the  good  and 
the  wicked  angels ;  if  he  shared  the  ideas  of 
the  hon.  member  for  Lotbiniere,  he  would 
say  to  himself :  "  This  country  cannot  have  a 
good  government,  and  it  is  not  advisable  to 
live  in  it."  When  a  person  draws  historical 
conclusions  from  a  table  of  contents,  it  shews 
that  he  has  not  derived  much  benefit  from 
his  st'^ii-  _■  c  .;  who  are  now  opposing 
Confederation  are  not  agreed  as  to  their 
mode  of  attack,  any  more  than  they  are  upon 
lij  means  to  be  adopted  to  meet  the  difficul- 


ties of  the  position  in  which  we  are  now 
placed.  The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga 
(Hon.  Mr.  Dokion)  is  in  favor  of  Confeder- 
ation of  the  two  Canadas,  and  the  hon. 
member  for  Lotbiniere  (Mr.  Joly)  is  against 
any  Confederation  at  all.  They  do  not  even 
agree  a?-  to  their  reasons  for  opposition. 
Some  are  opposed  to  Confederation  becaus-e 
it  grants  too  much  to  Lower  Canada,  and 
others  because  it  grants  too  much  to  Upper 
Canada.  Yet  Confederation  cannot  be  dis- 
advantageous to  everybody,  and,  for  my  part, 
I  am  of  opinion  that  everyone  may  find  some- 
thing good  in  it,  if  he  is  only  reasonable  in 
his  expectations.  If  the  hon.  member  for 
Hochelaga  ■were  called  upon  to  arrange  the 
difficulties  in  which  the  country  is  at  present 
situated,  I  am  satisfied  that  he  would  not 
bring  forward  any  other  plan  than  some 
scheme  of  Confederation  or  other;  and  if  he 
did  not  succeed  with  the  scheme  for  the 
Confederation  of  the  Canadas,  he  would  try 
the  more  extended  plan  of  a  great  Confeder- 
ation of  ail  the  provinces.  There  is  indeed, 
it  is  true,  another  remedy  whic'i  would  be 
more  likely  to  meet  the  views  of  certain 
members — annexation  to  the  United  States; 
but  I,  for  my  part,  am  resolutely  opposed  to 
it,  and  am  prepared  to  fight  against  it  by 
every  possible  means,  and  to  take  uj)  arms, 
if  necessary,  to  resist  it.  If  we  are  ever 
invaded  by  the  United  States,  I  sh:ill  ever 
be  ready  to  take  up  arms  to  drive  the 
invaders  out  of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
A  great  outcry  which  is  raised  against  Con- 
federation is  that  about  direct  taxation. 
For  my  part,  I  consider  that  the  honorable 
Minister  of  Finance  (Hon.  Mr.  G-alt)  has 
proved  clearly  that  we  shall  not  require  to 
have  recourse  to  it.  But  even  supposing 
that  such  should  turn  out  to  be  the  case,  we 
should  not  be  any  worse  ofi"  than  we  should 
be  with  the  gentlemen  on  the  other  side  of 
the  House  in  power  ;  for  it  is  perfectly  well 
known  that  the  hon.  member  for  Chateau- 
guay's  plan  is  to  establish  direct  taxation. 
With  them,  therefore,  we  should  not  have 
to  wait  for  Confederation  before  we  got  it. 
The  honorable  members  on  the  other  side  of 
the  House  have  also  taken  occasion  to  find 
fault  with  the  Speech  from  the  Throne  having 
contained  an  allusion  to  the  peace  and  gene- 
ral prosperity  of  the  country.  "  Why,"'  they 
say,  ''  the  Speech  from  the  Throne  states 
that  trade  is  prospering,  that  the  people  are 
happy  and  contented,  that  the  harvests  have 
been  magnificent,  and  that  great  contentment 
and   great   prosperity   everywhere  prevail ; 


£.50 


and  yet  constitutional  changes  are  proposed 
in  order  to  soothe  the  discontent  of  the 
people  and  the  agitation  of  the  country." 
Well !  let  us  suppose  that  the  gentlemen  are 
right — for  it  is  true  that  the  year  has  not 
been  a  good  one  in  respect  of  business,  and 
it  is  natural  that  such  should  be  the  case,  in 
view  of  the  position  of  the  crisis  through 
which  America  is  now  passing,  and  but  little 
else  can  be  expected;  the  harvest  hns  not  been 
a  very  |good  one, — however,  allowing  tha^ 
these  gentlemen  are  right,  it  is  not  the  less 
true  that  we  are  relatively  in  a  state  of  quiet- 
ude and  great  prosperity,  and  it  is  just  at 
the  present  time,  when  we  are  in  a  state  of 
tranquillity  and  can  do  it  in  perfect  liberty, 
that  we  should  adopt  means  to  settle  our 
internal  difficulties.  It  is  not  during  a  time 
of  trouble  or  a  civil  war  that  we  can  do  it, 
and  therefore  we  ought  to  profit  by  the 
opportunity  which  is  now  offered  us.  A  Con- 
stitution will  not  last  unless  it  is  elaborated 
with  the  care,  the  deliberation  and  the  calm 
ccusideration  which  can  be  devoted  to  it 
only  in  time  of  peace.  We  are  now  at  peace 
with  our  neighbors,  our  friends  are  in  a  large 
majority,  the  question  is  known  to  the 
country  and  has  been  considered  for  several 
months  past,  and  our  duty  is  to  do  now  in 
time  ot  peace,  what  it  is  impossible  to  do  in 
time  of  trouble.  We  ought  also  to  labor  to 
enlighten  public  opinion  on  the  subject  of 
this  plan  ol  Confederation,  not  by  appeals  to 
its  prejudices,  but  by  free  and  open  discus- 
sion, and  by  wise  counsel  based  on  that  truth 
which  should  always  be  our  guiding  star. 
I  am,  therefore,  disposed  to  vote  in  favor  of 
the  resolutions  which  are  submitted  to  us. 
When  I  became  aware  that  the  Government 
were  bringing  forward  this  scheme  of  Con- 
federation, I  said  to  myself  that  we  were 
about  to  be  liberated  from  colonial  leading- 
strings,  and  that  we  were  about  to  become  a 
people,  and  I  expected  the  House  would 
approach  the  question  with  due  regard  to 
its  greatness ;  some  hon.  members  have  un- 
doubtedly done  so,  but  I  regret  that  many 
others  have  not  been  able  to  raise  themselves 
above  the  narrow  considerations  of  party. 
The  question  has  been  discussed  by  states- 
men on  this  side  of  the  IIous«  at  least ;  but 
on  the  other  side  it  has  been  made  a  miser- 
able question  of  party  and  of  taxation. 
With  these  few  remarks,  I  shall  conclude  by 
stating  that  it  is  my  determination  to  vote 
in  favor  of  the  scheme  submitted  to  us. — 
(Applause. ) 


Mr.  BEAUBIEN— Mr.  Speaker,  I  do 
not  rise  to  make  a  long  speech,  for  I  freely 
acknowledge  that  it  is  not  in   my   power  to 
do  so  ;   and  besides,  the  question  which  is 
submitted  to  us  has  been  so  well  discussed 
by  those    who  have  preceded  me,  and  who 
are  in  a  better  position  than  myself  to  judge 
of  the  condition  and  requirements  of  the 
country,  that  the  subject  is  almost  exhausted. 
I  only  wish,  by  rising  on   this  occasion,  to 
record  uiy  presence  at  the  debates  which  are 
in  progress  on  this  question,  and  to  state  in 
a  few  words  what  the  reasons  are  which  in- 
duce me  to  support    this    measure.      The 
peculiar  position  of  the  British  North  Ame- 
rican   colonies   and   their   proximity  to   the 
United    States,    call     upon    them   to    unite 
together  in  ord-.r  to  form  a  stronger  nation, 
and  one  more  able  to  withstand  the  onslaught 
of  an  enemy,  should  it  be  necessary  so  to  do, 
and  to  increase  their   prosperity  in  a  mater- 
ial point  of  view.     There   is  one  fact  which 
must  not  be  forgotten,  and    which  I   must 
mention — it  is  that  when  France  abandoned 
this  country,   and   England  took  possession 
of  it,  from  that  moment  French  immigration 
entirely  ceased  and  gave  way  to  immigration 
of  persons   of   foreign    origin — of    British 
origin.     From  that  period  the  English  popu- 
lation increased  from    day    to    day    in   this 
coun;ry,  and  at  the  present  time  the  French- 
Canadians    are    in     a    minority    in    United 
Canada.     X3nder  those   circumstances,  I  am 
of  opinion  that  it  would  be  at  oacc  an  act  of 
imprudence  and  one  characterised  by  a  lack 
of  generosity  on  our  parts  to  wish  to  prevent 
the  maj(  rity  of  the  population  of  the  country 
from  displaying  greater   aspirations  lor  our 
common   country,  and  from  desiring  its  ad- 
vancement and   more  rapid   progress  in  an 
onward  direction,  at  the  same  tiiue  drawing 
closer    the    bonds    which    unite    us    to    the 
Mother  Country.     I  have  reflected  on  these 
matters,  and  although  I  am   not  disposed  to 
submit  to   injustice   to   my   country  or  my 
countrymen,  yet  I  am   ready  to  enter  into  a 
compromise  with   persons  of  other  origins. 
I    consider,     moreover,    that  since   we    are 
satisfied   with  our   position    as  English  sub- 
jects, and  with   the  Constitution  which  we 
are  allowed   freely    to    exercise,   we   should 
do  all   in  our  puwer  to   increase   England's 
interest  in  her  colonies;  and   for  my  part,  1 
consider   that   the    means   of  so    doing  is  to 
accept  the   Confederation  which  is  proposed 
to  us.     Not  long  sincj  discontent  was  mani- 
fested in  England  among  a  part  of  the  com- 


551 


mercial  class,  in  consequence  of  the  liberty 
whicli  we  took  of  imposing  higli  duties  on 
English,  merchandize  imported  into  this 
country;  but  the  English  Government  did 
not  share  that  discontent,  I  am  happy  to 
say,  and  did  not  choose  to  interfere.  This 
fact,  however,  was  of  a  nature  to  cast  a  chili 
upon  the  interest  with  which  we  were  re- 
garded in  England ;  but  when  the  news  of 
Confederation  reached  England,  that  interest 
was  revived,  and  has  ever  since  continued 
to  increase.  If  we  desire  to  interest 
England  in  our  fate,  we  must  draw 
closer  the  bonds  that  unite  us  to  her, 
and  we  must  do  it  by  means  of  the 
Confederation  now  proposed  to  us,  because 
that  measure  ojce  carried  out,  she  will 
undoubtedly  put  forth  her  whole  strength 
for  our  defence  if  we  should  be  attacked. 
Moreover,  in  view  of  the  events  which  have 
recently  occurred  in  the  southern  portion  of 
this  continent,  if  we  reflect  that  it  seems  to 
be  the  policy  of  France  and  of  England 
to  establish  a  balance  of  power  similar  to 
what  exists  in  Europe,  if  we  consider  that  it 
is  for  this  end  that  France  has  established 
an  empire  in  Mexico,  it  is  clear  that  England 
cannot  but  view  with  a  favorable  eye  the 
movement  now  in  progress  here  for  the  Con- 
federation of  all  the  British  North  American 
Provinces.  It  is  not  at  such  a  time  as  this, 
therefore,  that  England  would  be  disposed 
to  abandon  her  colonies,  as  it  has  been  pre- 
tended by  some.  I  stated,  a  moment  ago, 
that  we  should  not  resist  the  just  demands 
of  the  British  population  of  this  country, 
provided  they  do  not  ask  anything  involving 
injustice  towards  French-Canadians.  If  we 
were  guilty  of  injustice  towards  them,  they 
would  complain,  and  propose  a  plan  of  con- 
stitution humiliating  to  the  French-Cana- 
dians, and  they  would  no  longer  entertain 
sentiments  of  esteem  and  consideration  for 
us.  I  do  not  refer  to  this  matter  for  the 
purpose  of  discouraging  my  own  fellow- 
countrymen,  but  because  I  believe  it  is 
necessary  that  they  should  take  this  view  of 
the  matter  into  account  in  the  position  in 
which  we  now  find  ourselves  placed.  To-day 
our  position  is  an  excellent  one ;  we  are 
strong  as  a  party,  we  have  statesmen  at  the 
head  of  the  afiairs  of  our  country  who  are 
devoted  to  its  interest — they  have  proved  it 
again  and  again — and  united  together  by 
the  ties  of  interest  and  friendship ;  and 
above  ail,  we  have  ever  had  confidence  in 
those  who  prepared  the  project  of  a  Constitu- 


tion now  submitted  for  our  consideration ; 
it   is   evident,  then,  that   a  more  favorable 
opportunity  could  not  possibly  be  found  for 
efiecting    constitutional    changes    than    the 
present    circumstances  afi"ord.     These  men, 
who  are  surely  possessed  of  as  much   diplo- 
matic skill  as  the  representatives  of  the  other 
provinces  can  exhibit,  will  undoubtedly  look 
after  the   interests  of   Lower  Canada ;  and 
their  opinion,  based  upon  justice,  will  prevail 
with  those  to  whom  the  preparation  of  our 
new  Constitution  is  to  be  entrusted.     More- 
over, what   I   have   just  stated  is  perfectly 
understood  by  eveiy  influential  class  in  the 
country,  by  all  men  who  help  to  form  public 
opinion,  who  are   the   guides  of  the  people, 
and  who  have  hitherto  manasred  to  lead  them 
aright,  and  to  bring  them  into  a  safe  harbor 
at  the  last.      To-day   these  men  and  these 
influences  are  in  favor  of  the  present  plan,  and 
a'l  are  convinced  of  its  necessity.  But,  on  the 
other  hand,  what  are  the  influences  opposed 
to  Confederation  in  Lower  Canada  ?     They 
are  confined  to  a  party  which  has  existed  for 
the  past  fifteen  years  in  Lower  Canada,  and 
which   has  always  been  remarkable   for  its 
opposition    to   all    measures   demanded   and 
supported  by  the  party  representing  in  this 
House  the  vast  majority  of  the  people   of 
Lower  Canada.     This  persistent  opposition 
to   the    measures    of  the    Lower    Canadian 
party  savoured  of  revolution — for  your  revo- 
lutionist   is    by   nature    incapable    of  sub- 
mitting to  the  majority;  it  is  the  same  party 
which  in   other   countries  forms  secret  so- 
cieties, by  means  of  which  society  is  thrown 
into  disorder — and  it  is  admitted  that  every- 
where, in   Europe  as  well  as  in  America, 
these  secret  societies  are  composed  of  men 
who  are  invariably  opposed   to  everything 
calculated  to  secure  the  peace  and  happiness 
of  the  people.     Is  it  not  true  that  in  1856 
or  1857  a  place  in  the  Administration  was 
ofiered  to  one  of  the  leaders  of  that  party 
by  the  present  Attorney  General,  and  that 
an  opening   was  repeatedly  made  for  them, 
because  it  was  thought  that  they  were  acting 
in  good  faith  ?     Now,  did  they  not  invariably 
refuse  the  alliance  offered  them  ?     And  did 
they  not  even  refuse  to  give  a  cordial  sup- 
port to  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Adminis- 
stration,  which   was   composed   of  Liberal- 
Conservatives  ?     And   the  reason  was,  that 
that   Administration    was    not    exclusively 
composed  of  the  democratic  element. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Who  voted  against 
that  Administration,  and  who  defeated  it  ? 


552 


Mr.  BEAUBIEN— It  is   true  that  the 
actual  vote  by  which  that  government  was 
upset  was  given  by  us,  because  there  was  in 
that  Grovernment  an  excess  of  the  element  I 
have  just  referred  to,  and  for  other  reasons; 
but   it  was  that  party   that   betrayed   and 
spurned   those   who   had   enabled   them  to 
carry  their   elections.      (Hear,  hear.)      Is 
that  not  the  truth  ?      Then,  that  persistent 
and  constant  opposition  to  everything,  shows 
that  the  members  of  that  party  were  inspired 
by  passions,  not  to  be  found  in  the  generality 
ot  men.     The  Conservative  party  has  always 
opposed  representation  by  population  under 
the  present  union,  because  under  this  union 
we  are  face  to  face  with  the  population  of  a 
country  of  which  the  products  are  different 
from  ours,  and  of  which  the  interests  are 
not  always  identical  with  ours.  This  question 
was  strongly  agitated.     The  whole  people  of 
Lower  (.'anada  resisted   that  demand,    and 
the  whole  Conservative  party  firmly  refused 
to  consent  to  it,  while  the  other  party — the 
Opposition  party — held  out  hopes  to  those 
who   demanded   that    measure,   and    allied 
themselves  with  them.     This  is  a  statement, 
the  truth  of  which  cannot  be  denied,  for 
documents  proving  the  facts  exist,  and  have 
been  laid  before  this  House  and  the  country. 
This  cause  of  dissension  has  always  existed, 
and  will  always  exist  in  Upper  Canada,  not 
because   it  is  necessary  to  the  support   of 
such  or  such  a  party,  but  because  it  is  the 
result  of  a  provision  of  the  Constitution,  and 
because  the  interests  of  Upper  Canada  are 
not  the  same  as   ours.      And  if  we  do  not 
effect  a  settlement   of  this   question   now, 
these  di.ssensions  will,  ere  long,  be  renewed 
and  the  difficulties  increased.      Here  is  an 
opportunity  of  removing  these  difficulties  by 
uniting  ourselves  with  the  Lower  i^rovinces; 
and  I  think  Lower   Canada  would  do  well 
not  to  lose   the   opportunity.      Uiider  Con- 
federation, the  political  parties  into  which 
the  provinces  will   be  divided    will  find  it 
necessary  to  form  alliances,  and  our  alliance 
will  b3  courted   by  all,   so  that  we  shall  in 
reality  hold  the  balance  of  power.     More- 
over, I  am  quite  convinced  thai  we  have  no 
grounds   for  fear  in  that  respect.      I   have 
always  remarked  tuat  material  interests  are 
of  great  weight  in  the  formation  of  parties, 
and    the  conduct  of  the  Frcuch-Cauadians, 
with  reference  to  their  religious  institutions, 
never  inspired  any  uneasiness  or  distrust  in 
our  fellow-countrymen  of  a  different  origin 
irom  ours,  when  they  found  it  their  interest 
10   iorm  an   alliauco  with  us;    and    I   am 


certain  that  we  shall  find,  under  like  circum- 
stances,  the   same   disposition    among    the 
inhabitants  of  the  Lower  Provinces.     The 
plan  proposed  to  us  being  based  upon  the 
principle  of  justice  and   equity  to  all,  it  is 
deserving  of  the  support  of  all  parties.     It 
presents  a   remedy  for  the  evils  of  which 
Upper  Canada  complains,  at  the  .'•ame  time 
that  it  afi"ords  guarantees  for  the  protection 
of  the  interests  of  the  other  provinces  ;  and 
inasmuch  as  it  is  founded  on  just  bases,  it 
will   be   found — more  especially    among    a 
people  such  as  that  of  this  country,  who  are 
peaceable  and  well-disposed,  who  are,  for  the 
most  part,  owners  of  land,   and  have  many 
interests  to  protect — it  will  be  found,  I  say, that 
a  sentiment  of  justice  will  prevail,  and  that 
every  one  will  do  his  best  to  promote  the 
working  of  the  new  Constitution  in  such  a 
manner  as  to  give  full  satisfaction  to  all  the 
parties   interested.     Notwithstanding   what 
the  hon.  member  for  Lotbiniere  has  said  in 
the  course  of  a  speech,  with  which  he  him- 
self seemed  to  be  so  intensely  amused,  the 
sound  sense  and  judgment  of  the  people   of 
Lower   Canada  will   satisfy  them  that  they 
will  find  in  the  project  which  has  been  sub- 
mitted to  us,  guarantees  for  all  their  interests 
and  for  everything  they  bold  dear,  and  that 
the  measure  will  meet  all  their  wants  ;   and 
on  the  other  hand,  the  sound  sense  and  judg- 
ment of  the  people  of  the  other   provinces 
will    prevent   tliem    frooi    committing    any 
excess  or  any  act  of  injustice  towards  Lower 
Canada,  if  the  latter  should  happen  to  be  in 
a  minority,  or  if  the  alliance  I  have  referred 
to  should  not  be  made.     And,  moreover,  as 
regards  our  being  in  a  minority,  are  we  not 
exposed  to  it  under  the  present  sysucm?  And 
I  prefer  facing  the  larger   majority,  since  it 
will   be  less  hostile  to  Lower  Canada.     As 
matters  now  stand,  we  should  find  ourselves 
at  the  mercy  of  the  Upper  Canada  majority, 
if    they   wished    to    commit    any   injustice 
towards  us ;   but,  under  the  Confederation,  I 
believe  we  shall  have  better  guarantees  than 
we  now  possess  against  any  attempt  at  injus- 
tice on  the  part  of  the  Federal  Government, 
for  the  policy  of  England  is  to  aftord   her 
colonies   every  possible  reason  for   content- 
meat.     The  hon.  member  lor  llieholieu  has 
spoken  ol  the  events  which  occurred  prior  to 
18ii7,   to  convince   us   that  we    have   every 
reason  to  distrust  thci  sentiments  of  the  Bri- 
tish  population.     Why  refer  to  matters  so 
long  forgotten  if     The  hon.  member  ought  to 
know  that  the   policy    which  cireuuistanccs 
have  induced  England  to  adopt,  is  no  longer 


553 


the  policy  which  then  prevailed.     Does  any 
cue  believe  that  England  would  now  encour- 
age any  section  of  the  British  populatij.in  in 
doing  an    iujustico    to    the    inhabitants    of 
Lower   Canada?     It  will  be  said  that  the 
national  life  of  Lower  Canada  is  so   deeply 
rooted,  that  it  is  impossible   to   destroy  it ; 
but,  if  we  desire  to  secure  its  safety,  we  must 
accept  the  present  scheme  of  Confederation, 
under  which  all   the   religious  interests   of 
Lawer  Canada,  her  educational  institutions, 
her  public  lands,  in  fact  everything  thatcon- 
stitut3S  a  people's  nationality,  will  find  protec- 
tion   and    safety.      With     the    control     of 
our    public  lands    in   our  own   hands,    we 
can  attract  the  tide  of  emigration,    retain 
our  own  people  in  the  country,  and  advance 
in  prosperity  as  rapidly  as   the  other  pro- 
vinces.    And  all  this  is  secured  to  us  under 
the  plan  of  Confederation.     Every  impartial 
man  will  admit  that  great  care    has    been 
taken,  in   the  drawing  up  of  this   project  of 
Confederation,  to   protect  all  our  interests. 
It  may  be  true  that  it  is  not  quite  free  from 
defect,    but   evei-y    one    mnst   acknowledge 
that  it  is  the  most  perfect  system  that  could 
•possibly  be  obtained,   and    the  system  best 
calculated    to    afford  us  security.     All  the 
hon.   gentlemen   who  have   spoken   on    the 
Opposition   side  say  that  the  expenses  will 
be  extraordinary,   and   that  the  revenue  will 
not  be  sufficient  to  support  the  governments 
of  the  Confederation.     But   they  base  their 
calculations    upon    the    revenue   as   it    now 
stands,  and  they  do  not  reflect  that  the  pre- 
sent debt  of  the  province  has  been  contracted 
in   carrying  out  the  vast  public   works  we 
now   possess,  and   that  these  public  works 
have  not  as  yetproddced  a  revenue,  but  will 
hereafter  do  so.     These  public  works  were 
essentially  necessary  for  the  development  of 
our  resources  ;  and  if  at  this  moment  the 
Minister   of  Finance   is   able   to  present  a 
budget  shewing   a   surplus  of  revenue  over 
expenditure,  we  are  justified  in  hoping  that 
within    a  few   years    our    revenue    will    be 
more  than   sufficient  to   enable  us  to  meet 
all  the  expenses  of  the  different  governments, 
and   to  extinguish   our  present  debt      For 
my    own    part,   I   do    not    think    that    our 
expenses  will  be  greater  under  Confederation 
than  they  are  at  present.     If  the  Federal 
Government  works  well,  our  expenses  will 
be  less  than  they  are  at  present,  for  we  shall 
be  rid  of  factious  sectional  jealousies,  and 
the  system  of  equivalents,  which  have  done 
so  much  injury  to  the  country,  and  which 
have  so  greatly  impeded  the  working  of  the 

71 


Government  in  times  past.     It  is  ridiculous 
to  fancy  that  the  Government  of  Canada  can 
continue  to  work  and  maintain  itself  with  a 
majority  of  one  or  two  votes  in  this  House, 
as  wc  have  witnessed  for  some  years  past ; 
for  a  government  so  placed  is  at  the  mercy 
of  every  member  who  has  a  local  interest  to 
serve,  or  a  particular  favor  to  obtain ;  and 
it  is   thus  forced  to   grant  favors   which  it 
would   refuse   if    it   were   stronger.      This 
was  the  cause  of  all  the  useless  expenditure ; 
and  almost   every  one  of   our   governments 
has  been  in  that    position.      (Hear,    hear.) 
But  under  Confederation  we  may  hope  that 
the  Federal  Government  will  generally  have 
the  support  of  a  large  majority,  and  will  con- 
sequently not  be  compelled   to  yield  to  the 
demands  of   a  small    number   of   members. 
The  resources  at  the  disposal  of   the  local 
governments  being  limited,  they  will  practise 
a  degree  of  economy  which  will  serve  as  an 
example  to    the   Federal   Government  itsrlf 
Lower  Canada,  when  left  to  herself,  will  be- 
come highly  prosperous  in  a  few  years — and 
perhaps  Upper   Canada  also  —  provided  her 
espouses  be  kept  within  bounds ;  and  I  am 
coQvineed  that  her  Local  Government  will  be 
a  model  for  the  Federal  Government ;  for  men 
formed  in  the  school  of  the  Local  Government, 
and  who  will  be  habituatelfl  to  the  practice  of 
economy,  will  exert  a  salutary  influence  on 
the  members  of  the   Federal  Legislature,  lo 
whom  they  will  impart,  and   on  whom  they 
will  impress,  their  ideas  of  economy  and  good 
government.  (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  well  that 
the  means  at  the  disposal  of  the  local  govern- 
ments   should  be  limited,   but  at  the   same 
time  amply  sufiicient,  for  they  must  then  feel 
that  they  cannot  enter  into  too  large  expen- 
diture, and  they  will  adopt  a  perfect  system 
of  economy.  (Hear,  hear.)     Before  conclud- 
ing I  must  pay   a  tribute  of  justice  to  the 
British  population  of  Lower  Canada.      We 
have  always  gone   along  hand  in  hand  like 
good    friends,    acknowledging    each    other's 
rights,  and  each  party  invaiiably  making  it  a 
rule  to  accede  to  the  just  claims  of  the  other. 
This  will  be  our  safety  also  under  the  Federal 
Government.     For  my  part  I  should  be  sorry 
to  see  the  present  plan  of  Confederation  fail, 
at  all   events   through  any  action  of  ours,  for 
that  would  justly  dissatisfy  the  British  popu- 
lation of  this  country,  who  desire  to  see  it 
carried  out,  and  to  whom  we  should  not  re- 
fuse it.     We  know  that  the  British  have  al- 
ways  done  everything  in  their  power  to  pro- 
mote the  material  prosperity  of  the  country, 
and  it  is  our  duty  to  respect  them  and  to  ac- 
cede to  their  just  demands.  With  these  few 


554. 


remarks,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  shall  conclude 
by  stating  that  I  am  iu  favor  of  the  present 
plan  of  Coniederation,  not  because  I  trust 
solely  to  the  evidence  of  my  own  judgment, 
but  because  I  see  at  the  head  of  the  movement 
the  most  enlightened  men  in  the  country,  and 
because  all  the  men  of  influence,  all  the  men 
of  property  in  the  country,  are  in  favor  of  the 
project.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I  am  convinced, 
notwithstanding  all  that  may  have  been  said, 
that  the  country  is  sufficiently  familiar  with  the 
project,  and  that  the  people  now  know  all  they 
will  ever  know  about  it.  In  every  parish 
there  are  men  who  are  the  leaders  of  public 
opinion,  and  we  know  that  these  men  are  in 
favor  of  this  plan.  We  have  all  these  infl.u- 
ences  with  us,  and  for  my  part  I  attach  but 
little  importance  to  the  opinion  expressed  at 
certain  public  meetings  held  to  oppose  Con- 
federation, or  to  the  petitions  presented 
against  the  project,  fur  it  is  always  easy  to 
obtain  signatures  to  petitions.  And,  more- 
over, let  any  one  compare  the  signatures  to 
these  petitions  with  the  poll-books  kept  at 
elections,  and  it  will  be  found  that  they  are 
the  names  of  those  who  liave  always  been  op- 
posed to  everything  proposed  by  the  great 
national  party,  which  has  ever  represented  the 
interests  of  Lower  Canada.     (Applause.) 

Mr.  DUFRESiNE  (of  Montcalm)— Mr. 
Speaker,  I  do  not  rise  to  speak  on  the  ques- 
tion now  before  the  House,  but  simply  to 
express  my  surprise  that  after  six  weeks  of 
discussion  the  Opposition  pretend  that  we  re- 
fuse them  time  to  discuss  the  measure,  and 
that  nevertheless  they  refuse  to  discuss  it 
during  the  afternoon  sittings,  and  will  only 
take  it  up  in  the  evening.  For  my  part,  I  am 
prepared  to  vote  at  once  upon  this  .matter, 
and  I  believe  that  the  question  is  perfectly 
mastered  and  well  understood  by  every  mem- 
ber of  this  House.  Why  are  the  Opposition 
unwilling  to  speak  during  the  afternoon  sit- 
tings ?  Their  object  in  speaking  is  to  kill 
time,  rather  than  to  discuss  the  merits  of 
the  question.  And  why  is  this  ?  Is  it 
because  they  are  waiting  for  a  few  more  peti- 
tions, a  few  more  names,  in  order  to  protest 
against  Confederation  ?  Bat  we  know  the 
value  of  these  petitions — we  know  what  the 
Rouges  are,  and  that  they  will  sign  any  and 
every  petition,  provided  it  be  against  the  Gov- 
ernment and  its  policy.  The  Opposition  is 
like  a  sulky  child  ;  if  you  refuse  him  a  play- 
thing he  cries  for  it,  and  then  if  you  offer  it 
to  him  he  refuses  ti;  take  it.  Tlie  Confeder- 
ation is  in  reality  the  plan  of  those  gentlemen 
themselves,  and  yet  to-day  they  will  not  hoar 


of  it ;  they  reject  it  as  somethins:  horrible. 
The  country  is  watching  them,  and  I  hold  the 
Opposition  responsible  for  the  loss  of  time  we 
are  now  undergoing.  If  they  have  any 
reasons  to  advance,  let  them  do  so,  but  let  us 
come  to  a  vote.  Their  conduct  will  receive 
it?  due  reward  at  the  hands  of  the  people. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

After  the  recess. — 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON  said— Mr.  Speak- 
er, when  so  many  eloquent  voices  have  spoken 
on  the  great  question  which  occupies  us  so 
seriously,  which  stands  preeminent  over  all 
others  in  the  present  situation,  which  pre-oc- 
cupies  all  minds,  which  agitates  to  its  farthest 
limits  ail  British  North  America,  which  in- 
cludes within  its  immense  scope  two  oceans 
and  nearly  half  a  continent,  and  which  is 
pregnant  with  the  destinies  of  a  great  people 
and  a  great  country — when  the  whole  of  the 
motives  which  can  be  advanced  for  and  against 
the  project  have  been  so  luminously  discussed, 
when  I  myself  have,  elsewhere,  at  such  con- 
siderable length  and  so  completely  developed, 
with  the  feeble  abilities  which  Providence  has 
conferred  upon  me,  the  considerations  which 
militate  for  or  against  the  entirety  and  the 
details  of  the  work  of  the  Quebec  Conference, 
I  might — perhaps  I  should — have  remained  a 
simple  spectator  of  these  solemn  debates,  while 
awaiting  the  hour  at  which  I  should  be  per- 
mitted to  record  my  vote  in  accordance  with 
my  convictions.  I  considered,  however,  that 
as  one  of  the  oldest  representatives  of  the 
people,  after  having  spoken  elsewhere,  I 
should  speak  again  within  the  parliamentary 
precinct,  in  order  to  accomplish  to  the  letter 
my  trust,  and  in  order  to  obey  that  voice 
which  has  a  right  to  command  me.  I  have 
therefore  come  this  evening  in  order  to  bring 
my  feeble  tribute  of  ideas  to  the  deei^ivc 
ordeal  which  is  being  accomplished.  For  my 
part  I  should  have  wished  for  the  bringing 
forward  of  fewer  personal  questions,  fewer 
criminations  and  recriminations,  fewer  allu- 
sions to  the  past;  in  a  word,  I  should  have 
wished  to  see  the  debate  rising  at  its  very 
outset  to  the  dignity  of  the  question  itself, 
so  as  to  place  us  in  a  position  to  judge  of 
it  on  its  own  merits,  without  considering 
the  names  or  the  antecedents  of  those  who 
may  defend  or  may  oppose  it ;  I  should 
have  wished  to  see  the  couscience  of  our  pub- 
lic men  in  harmony  with  the  public  con- 
science, and  that  under  such  grave  circum- 
stances, meu  had  forgotten  that  they  were 
party  men,  in  order  to  remember  only  tlieir 
national  character.     (Hear,  licar.)     But  scv- 


555 


eral  of  the  speakers  have  not  appreciated  the 
situation  in  this  manner ;  they  have  not  be- 
lieved that  it  was  of  such  importance  as  to  ex- 
act the  development  of  great  virtues  and  great 
sacrifices.  One  honorable  gentleman  amused 
himself  by  making  jVwa;  de  mots  of  doubtful 
merit  on  the  complexion  of  two  pamphlets; 
another  devoted  a  third  of  his  long  speech  to 
the  task  of  endeavoring  to  make  his  present 
position  agree  with  his  antecedents,  and  the 
other  two-thirds  almost  entirely  to  an  effort  to 
make  his  opponents  contradict  themselves, 
without  any  regard  to  the  question  under  dis- 
cusion,  imitating  the  Trojan  hero  of  whom 
Virgil  sings,  and  of  whom  Housseau  says  : 

"  Pouvait-elle  mieux  attendre 
De  ce  pieux  voyageur, 
Qui,  fuyant  sa  ville  en  cendre, 
Et  ie  fer  du  Grec  vengeur, 
Quitta  les  murs  de  Pergame 
Tenant  son  f:ls  par  la  main. 
Sans  prendre  garde  a  sa  femme. 
Qui  se  perdit  en  cliemin?  "  * 

(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  I  scorn  to  de- 
fend here  my  past  opinions  on  Confederation. 
I  wrote  from  conviction  in  1858,  just  as  I 
have  written  from  conviction  in  1865.  My 
two  works  f)re  there — provoking  discussion, 
and  throwing  down  the  gauntlet  to  those  who 
may  desire  to  take  it  up.  It  will  soon  be  a 
third  of  a  century  since  I  commenced  to 
write,  and  if  I  had  no  other  recommendation 
to  public  attention  than  that  of  being  the 
oldest  journalist  in  the  country,  it  appears 
to  me  that  people  ought,  if  they  could,  not 
to  have  allowed  me  to  pass  without  asking 
me  the  reason  of  my  present  doctrines.  How 
is  it,  then,  that  from  the  midst  of  the  de- 
mocratic and  opposition  press  not  a  single 
voice  has  been  heard  against  the  long  common- 
tary  of  the  Journal  on  the  scheme  of  the 
Quebec  Conference?  (Hear,  hear.)  Is  it  in- 
ability ?  Is  it  that  talent  is  wanting  among 
this  phalanx  which  believes  itself  to  have 
been  specially  ushered  into  existence  in  order 
to  enlighten  and  govern  the  country  ?  Even 
if  I  had  not  written  under  a  strong  sense  of 
duty,  I  should  feel  sufficiently  strengthened 
by  the  high  and  disinterested  approbation 
which  greeted  my  humble  work,  to  bear  un- 


AVhat  conduct  could  she  hope  less  flagrant 
From  this  good,  holy,  pious  vagrant, 
Who,  flying  from  his  city's  sack, 
The  avenging  Greek  upon  his  track, 
And  leading  by  his  hand  his  boy, 
Fled  from  the  walls  of  burning  Troy  ? 
To  help  his  wife  ho  would  not  stay; 
So  she  was  lost  upon  the  way. 


disturbed  the  scratches  afld  pin  pricks  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbini^re,  and,  all  un- 
worthy though  it  may  be,  I  should  not  hesi- 
tate to  place  it  in  the  balance  against,  I  will 
not  say  the  episode,  but  the  speech  by  which 
he  seems  to  hope  to  arrive  at  the  position  of  a 
statesman,  to  which  he  aspires.  It  is  to  be 
regretted  also  that  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga  kept  himself  almost  constantly, 
during  three  hours  and  a  half,  in  the  lowest 
level  of  personal  recriminations.  Was  he 
unable  to  raise  himself  to  a  more  dignified 
ground,  or  is  it  the  natural  level  of  his  talents 
and  his  habits  ?  It  seems  to  me  that  the 
occasion  required  more  serious  debate,  larger 
views,  wiser  appreciation  drawn  from  more 
profound  thoughts,  a  truer  idea  of  the  situa- 
tion, greater  truth  in  the  statement  of  facts, 
greater  exactness,  more  sequence,  and  more 
logic  in  the  reasoning.  But,  instead  of  this, 
we  have  had  a  jumble  of  ideas  and  assertions, 
dates  which  give  each  other  the  lie,  and  a  his- 
tory sadly  made  and  sadly  told.  The  honor- 
able gentleman  challenged  me,  and  I  must 
accept  this  challenge  before  entering  upon  the 
consideration  of  the  question  which  is  now 
before  us.  The  honorable  gentleman  (Hon. 
Mr.  Dorion)  said  the  other  evening : — 

This  speech  has  been  tortiii-ed  and  twisted  in 
every   possible  sense.     I  have  seen  it  quoted  in 
order  to  prove  that  I  was  in  favor  of  representa- 
tion by  population  pure  and  simple  ;  I  have  seen 
it  quoted  in  order  to  prove  that  1  was  in  favor  of 
the  Confederation  of  the  provinces,  and,  in  fact, 
to  prove   many  other   things,    according  to  the 
necessities  of  the  moment  or  of  those  who  quoted 
it.     (Hear,  bear,  and  laughter.)     The  first  time 
the  question  was  put  to  a  practical   test  was  in 
1858.     On  the  occasion  of  the  resignation  of  the 
Macdonald-Cartier    Government    the    Brown- 
DoRioN   Government   was   formed,    and  it   was 
agreed  between  the  members   that  the   constitu- 
tional question  should  be  met  and  settled,  either 
by  means  of  a  Confederation  of  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada,  or  by  means  of  representation  by  popu- 
lation, with  checks  and  guarantees  ensuring  the 
religious  faith,  the  laws,  the  language   and  the 
local  institutions  of  each  section  of  the  country 
against  any  attack  from  the  other.     Pretended 
extracts   fiom   this   document  as  of  my  speech 
have  been  given  and  falsified,  in  the  press  and 
elsewhere,   to  prove  every   kind  of  doctrine  as 
being  my  views  ;  but  I  can  show  clearly  that  the 
proposition  which  it  contains  is  exactly  the  same 
as  that  which  was  made  in  1858,  that  is  to  say, 
Confederation  of  the  two  provinces,  with  some 
joint   authority    for    the    management    of  affairs 
common  to  both.     My  speeches  have  been  lately 
paraded  in  the   ministerial  journals  ;  they  have 
been  distorted,  ill  translated,  and  even  falsified, 
in  order  to  induce  the  public  to  believe  that  I 


556 


formerly  held  opinions"differeut  from  those  which 
I  now  hold.  A  French  journal  has  said  "  that  I 
loudly  called  for  a  Confederation  of  the  provin- 
ces." But  I  shall  say  now,  as  I  stated  in  1856, 
and  as  I  stated  in  1861,  that  I  have  always  been 
and  am  still  opposed  to  Confederation.  I  find 
by  the  Mirror  of  Parliament,  which  contains  a 
report  of  my  speech,  although  an  exceedingly  bad 
report,  that  I  stated  in  1861 — "  A  time  may 
come  when  it  will  be  necessary  to  have  a  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces ;  *  *  *  but  the 
time  has  not  yet  come  for  such  a  scheme."  This 
was  the  speech  which  was  misrepresented  as 
meaning  that  I  was  calling  loudly  for  Confeder- 
tion,  and  that  nothing  would  give  me  greater 
pleasure.  And  yet  I  explicitly  stated  on  that 
occasion  that  although  a  time  might  come  when 
Confederation  would  become  necessary,  it  was 
not  desirable  under  actual  circumstances. 

The  honorable  gentleman  already  admits  two 
things  with  which  he  has  been  charged — re- 
presentation on  the  basis  of  population,  with 
checks,  guarantees  and  assurances,  and  the 
Confederation  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
We  shall  now  see  if,  in  extending  the  field  of 
my  investigations,  I  shall  not  find  that  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  has — to  use 
a  felicitous  expression  of  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Lotbini^re — occasionally  enlarged  the 
circle  of  his  constitutional  operations.  Here 
is  what  the  honorable  gentleman  stated  on 
the  6th  July,  1858  ;  the  extract  is  from  the 
Globe,  of  which,  at  that  period  at  least,  he  did 
not  question  the  veracity  : — 

The  honorable  member  for  Brockville,  the 
Honorable  Postmaster  General,  the  Speaker,  and 
other  members  representing  Lower  Canadian 
counties  in  the  present  Parliament,  have  voted 
for  representation  by  population.  Before  long, 
it  will  be  impossible  to  resist  the  demands  of 
Upper  Canada  in  this  respect.  If  representa- 
tion by  population  is  not  granted  now,  it  will  in- 
fallibly obtain  it  at  a  later  period,  but  then  without 
any  guarantees  for  the  protection  of  the  French- 
Canadians.  The  repeal  of  the  union,  a  Federal 
union,  representation  based  on  population,  or 
some  other  great  change  must  in  all  necessity 
take  place,  and  for  my  part  I  am  disposed  to 
consider  the  question  of  re|)resentation  by  popu- 
lation, in  order  to  see  if  it  may  not  be  conceded 
with  guarantees  for  the  protection  of  the  religion, 
the  language,  and  t!ie  laws  of  Lower  Canadians. 
I  am  equally  ready  to  take  into  consideration  the 
project  of  a  Confederation  of  the  provinces, 
leaving  to  each  section  the  administration  of  its 
local  affairs,  as  for  example  the  power  of  regu- 
lating its  own  civil,  municipal  and  educational 
laws  ;  and  to  the  General  Goveininent  the  ad- 
ministration of  the  public  works,  the  public  lands, 
the  poatoiTice  department,  and  commerce. 

I  now  quote  the  Mirror,  the  orthodoxy  and 


veracity  of  which  are  denied  by  the  honor- 
able member  for  Hochelaga  and  his  organ?. 
The  date  of  the  report  in  the  Mirror  is  the 
3rd  May,  1860  :— 

I  hope,  nevertheless,  that  a  day  will  come  when 
it  will  be  desirable  for  Canada  to  unite  federally 
with  the  Lower  Provinces;  but  the  time  is  not 
yet  ripe  for  such  a  project.  And  even  if  Canada 
should  be  favorable,  the  Maritime  Provinces 
would  not  like  to  enter  into  it  on  account  of  our 
great  debt.  As  to  the  joint  authority,  it  ought 
to  have  the  least  authority.  But  those  who  are 
in  favor  of  the  Federal  union  of  the  provinces 
ought  to  see  this  P'ederation  of  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  is  the  best  mode  of  creatiiig  a  nucleus 
around  which,  at  a  later  period,  the  Confedera- 
tion of  all  the  provinces  might  be  formed. 

Thus  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
had  all  sorts  of  wares,  just  as  the  keeper  of  a 
"  general  store  "  possesses  all  sorts  of  mer- 
chandise, great  and  small,  on  his  shelves.  To 
some  he  sells  lace  and  to  others  cutlery. 
(Laughter.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  is  a 
jjotpourri.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON  — The  honorable 
gentleman  calls  it  a  pot  pourri.  I  think  my 
comparison  of  it  as  a  general  store  is  much 
more  accurate  and  characteristic. 

A  MEMBER  — Music  is  sold  there. 
(Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Yes,  on  his  shelves 
loaded  with  all  sorts  of  goods,  even  old 
music  is  to  be  found.  (Laughter.)  Here 
there  is  a  conflict  of  authorities  as  there  is 
in  relation  to  dogmatic  questions  between  Pro- 
testant and  Catholic  writers ;  and  the  Pays 
expressed  itself  as  follows  with  respect  to  the 
Mirror  of  Parliament : — 

But  here  is  the  crowning  of  the  edilice.  The 
editor  of  the  Journal  finds  strange  things  iu  the 
Mirror  of  Parliament,  a  publication  which  was 
never  controlled  by  any  committee  of  the  House, 
and  the  authority  of  which  is  worth  less  than  that 
oi  a  solidly  founded  newspaper  such  as  the  Globe, 
the  Herald,  the  Chronicle,  or  the  Jouniol  de 
Quibec  itself.  It  is  notorious  that  the  reporters 
for  this  Mirror  were  not  over  particpliir  a^  to 
their  correctness,  and  that  but  little  importance 
was  attached  to  their  reports  ;  so  much  so  that 
the  shout  in  ([uestiou  liad  only  an  ephemeral  ex- 
istence. 

Without  admitting  the  truth  of  the  preten- 
sions of  this  organ  of  the  honorable  member 
for  llocholaga,  I  did  not  hesitate  to  follow 
the  lioiiorable  gentleman  on  the  ground  which 
he  liiinself  has  chosen,  and  I  found  the  fol- 
lowing in  the  Morning  Chronicle  of  the  ttli 


557 


I 


May,  1860,  to  which  he  referred  me  for  a 
more  exact  and  veracious  report — it  being  the 
same  speech  of  the  third  May,  a  report  of 
which  I  have  read  from  the  Mirror  of  Par- 
liament. [Here  the  honorable  gentleman 
read  a  French  translation  of  the  Chronicle's 
report.]  And  in  order  that  there  may  be  no 
doubt  as  to  the  exactness  of  the  translation,  with 
the  exception  of  a  word  which  I  shall  ex- 
plain after  reading  the  extract,  I  shall  now 
quote  the  English  text  as  reported  in  the 
Chronicle,  viz. : — 

Mr.  DoRioN  argned  that  when  Lower  Canada 
had  the  preponderance  of  population,  complaints 
were  of  the  inequality  of  the  representation  of 
that  section.  The  union  of  Belgium  and  Hol- 
land, which  was  somewhat  similar  to  that  at 
present  existing  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  was  dissolved  when  it  was  found  it  did 
not  work  advantageously  to  both  conntries.  He 
instanced  a  number  of  questions  on  which  it  was 
impossible  for  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  to  agree  ; 
public  feeling  being  quite  dissimilar — subjects  pop- 
ular in  one  section  being  the  reverse  in  the  other. 
He  warned  Lower  Canada  members,  that  when 
the  time  came  that  the  whole  of  the  representa- 
tives from  the  western  portion  of  the  province 
would  be  banded  together  on  the  question,  they 
would  obtain  representation  by  population,  aud 
secure  the  assistance  of  the  Eastern  Township 
members  in  so  doing.  He  regarded  a  Federal 
union  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  as  a  nucleus 
of  the  great  Confederation  of  the  North  American 
Provinces  to  which  all  looked  forward.  He  con- 
cluded by  saving  he  would  vote  for  the  resolution, 
as  the  only  mode  by  which  the  two  sections  of 
the  province  could  get  OLt  of  the  difficulties  in 
which  they  now  are.  He  thought  the  union  ought 
to  be  dissolved,  and  a  Federal  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces would  in  due  time  follow. 

The  translation  into  French  says,  "  que 
fappdle  de  nies  vceiix,"  and  the  original  text 
is  "  to  which  all  looked  forward."  Thus, 
instead  of  rendering  the  desire  for  a  Confed- 
eration of  the  provinces,  as  his  own  he  made 
it  general.  Instead  of  speaking  for  himself, 
he  spoke  for  all,  and-  as  the  whole  comprises 
the  part,  in  expressing  the  general  thought  he 
had  most  naturally  expressed  his  own  thought. 
(I [ear,  hear.)  I  take  this  opportunity  of 
correcting  this  involuntary  error  of  transla- 
tion, and  of  saying  that  the  honorable  gentle- 
man affirmed  then  that  not  only  himself,  but 
that  all  turned  their  eyes  from  the  mountain 
top  towards  the  promised  land  of  Confedera- 
tion of  all  the  British  North  American  Prov- 
inces. Did  not  the  honor.ible  member  for 
Hochelaga  say  in  his  famous  manifesto  of  the 
7th  Nov.,  1864  :— 


The  union  which  is  proposed  appears  to  me 
premature,  and  if  it  is  not  altogether  incompati- 
ble with  our  colonial  state,  it  is  at  least  without 
precedent  in  the  history  of  the  colonies. 

And  the  other  day,  in  this  House  he  stated : — 

Necessarily,  I  do  not  mean  to  say  that  I  shall 
alvvays  be  opposed  to  Confederation.  The  popu- 
lation may  extend  itself,  and  cover  the  virgin 
forests  which  exist  between  Canada  and  the  Mari- 
time Provinces,  and  commercial  relations  may 
increase  in  such  a  manner  as  to  render  Confedera- 
tion necessary. 

It  is,  therefore,  in  every  respect  merely  a 
question  of  time,  and  of  expediency  as 
between  the  majority  of  the  House  and  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga.  But  he  has 
not  thought  proper  to  tell  us  why  Confederation 
of  all  the  provinces  of  British  North  America 
is  to-day  a  crime,  an  anti-national  act,  yet 
would  have  at  one  period,  been  good  and  accept- 
able to  Lower  Canada.  In  the  same  manner  he 
has  also  preserved  silence  on  the  character  which 
Confederation  should  possess,  in  order  to  merit 
the  sanction  of  his  word  and  his  vote.  Al- 
ways to  condemn,  always  to  destroy,  never 
to  build  up — this  appears  to  be  the  motto  of 
the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga,  and 
those  who  follow  his  lead  on  the  floor  of 
this  House.  (Hear,  hear.)  They  always 
keep  to  themselves  the  easiest  sh.ire  of  sacri- 
fice and  patriotism — the  task  of  casting  blame 
and  censure  upon  others.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
honorable  gentleman  thinks  that  the  union 
proposed  to  us,  that  is  to  say  Confederation, 
is  without  precedent  in  Colonial  history.  He 
has,  therefore,  not  read  the  Federal  history, 
scarcely  accomplished,  of  th»  colonies  of 
Australia.  But  if  it  be  true  that  the  Con- 
federation of  the  six  colonies  is  without  pre- 
cedent in  Colonial  history,  will  the  honorable 
gentleman  at  least  tell  us  where  he  found  his 
precedent  for  the  Confederation  of  the  two 
provinces  ?  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  In 
order  to  get  out  of  the  difiiculty  again  this 
time,  the  honorable  gentleman  will  hardly 
deny  that  which  he  affirmed  so  categorically 
only  the  other  evening.  It  is  evident  that 
logic  and  a  recollection  of  facts  are  not  among 
the  most  prominent  features  of  the  honorable 
member's  eloquence.  Since  he  desires  so  much 
to  establish  that  he  was  at  all  times  in  favor 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  two  Cauadas  as 
an  alternative  for  representation  by  popu- 
lation, it  appears  to  me,  and  it  ought  to  be 
evident  to  the  House  and  to  the  country 
which  we  represent,  that  he  should  have 
stated  the  motives  of  such  a  deep  and  constant 


558 


conviction.  Wlay  conceal  from  us  the  fruits 
of  so  many  and  such  serious  meditations? 
Why,  setting  aside  the  facile  and  convenient 
task  of  censor,  does  he  not  come  forward  as 
the  architect  of  a  political  edifice  capable  of 
sheltering  and  protecting  against  tempest  from 
without,  our  nationality  and  the  institutions 
of  which  it  is  composed.  It  is  because  "if 
criticism  is  easy,  art  is  difficult."  This  truth 
enunciated  by  a  poet,  nearly  two  thousand 
years  ago,  evidently  belongs  to  all  ages,  and  it 
finds,  to-day  more  particularly,  its  application 
in  the  person  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Hochelaga.  (Hear,  hear.)  Tempo ra  miitan- 
tur  ct  nos  vu(ta7mu''  in  illis — and  behold,  the 
honorable  gentleman  told  us  on  the  16th 
February,  1865  •.— 

Representation  based  upon  population  was 
one  of  the  least  causes  of  this  project.  [And 
further  on] :  But,  as  soon  as  the  Government 
found  itself,  after  its  defeat,  obliged  either  to 
resign  or  to  appeal  to  the  people,  gentlemen  on 
the  other  side  of  the  House,  without  there  being 
the  slightest  agitation  on  this  question,  prepared 
to  embrace  their  most  violent  adversaries,  and 
said  to  themselves :  "  We  are  going  to  forget 
our  past  dififerences,  provided  we  can  preserve 
our  portfolios." 

Had  the  honorable  gentleman,  therefore,  for- 
gotten that  which  he  stated  with  so  much 
emphasis  and  apparently  with  so  much  con- 
viction in  1858  : — 

The  honorable  member  for  Brockville,  the 
Postmaster  General,  the  Speaker,  and  other 
members  repn  senting  Lower  Canadian  counties, 
in  the  present  Parliament,  have  already  voted  for 
representation  by  population.  Before  long,  it 
will  become  iinpossible  to  resist  the  demand 
of  Upper  Canada  in  this  respect.  If  repre- 
sentation by  population  be  not  granted  now, 
it  will  infallibly  obtain  it  later,  but  then  with- 
out any  guarantee  for  the  protection  of  the 
French  Canadians. 

Had  he  changed  his  opinion  in  1859  when  he 
wrote  conjointly  with  Hon.  Messrs.  DauM- 
MOND,  Dessaulles  and  McGee: — 

It  is  with  the  settled  conviction  that  an  inevit- 
able constitutional  crisis  imposed  upon  the  Liberal 
party  of  Lower  Canada  duties  proportionate  with 
the  gravity  of  the  circumstances  in  which  the  af- 
f'liis  of  the  country  wero,  that  your  Committee 
lias  undortaken  the  task  with  which  it  is  charged. 
It  has  become  evident  to  all  those  who,  for 
several  years  back,  have  given  their  attention  to 
daily  events  ;  and  above  all  to  those  who  have 
had  to  mingle  actively  with  public  ulI'iiirH,  that 
we  are  rapidly  reaciiiug  a  slate  of  things  which 
will  necessitate  modifications  in  the  relations  ex- 
isting between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada ;  and  a 


search  for  the  means  most  likely  to  meet  the  dif- 
ficulty} when  it  presents  itself,  has  not  failed  to 
be  the  subject  of  the  most  .serious  consideration 

and  frequent  discussion  in  and  out  of  Parliament. 

•  •♦•••• 

The  proposition  for  the  formation  of  a  Confed- 
eration of  the  two  Canadas  is  not  a  new  one.  It 
has  frequently  been  agitated  in  Parliament  and 
in  the  press  for  several  years  past.  The  example 
of  the  neighboring  states,  in  which  the  applica- 
tion of  the  Federal  system  has  shewn  us  how  fit- 
ting it  was  to  the  government  of  an  immense  ter- 
ritory, inhabited  by  people  of  different  origins, 
creeds,  laws  and  customs,  has  no  doubt  suggested 
the  idea;  but  it  was  only  in  1856  that  this  pro- 
position was  enunciated  before  the  Legislature  by 
the  Lower  Canadian  Opposition,  as  offering,  in 
its  opinion,  the  only  effective  remedy   for   the 

abuses  produced  by  the  present  system. 

•  ♦••••• 

Lower  Canada  wishes  to  maintain  intact  the 
present  union  of  the  provinces.  If  she  will  not 
consent  to  a  dissolution  nor  to  Confederation,  it 
is  difficult  to  conceive  what  plausible  reasons  she 
can  advance  for  refusing  representation  by  popu- 
lation. Up  to  the  present  time  she  has  opposed 
it  by  alleging  the  danger  which  might  result  to 
some  of  the  institutions  which  are  most  dear  to 
her;  but  this  reason  would  be  no  longer  sustain- 
able if  it  resisted  a  proposition  the  effsct  of  which 
would  be  to  leave  to  the  inhabitants  of  Lower 
Canada  the  absolute  control  of  those  same  insti- 
tutions and  to  surround  them  with  the  most 
efficient  protection  which  it  is  possible  to  im- 
agine— that  which  would  procure  for  them  the 
formal  dispositions  of  a  written  constitution, 
which  could  not  be  changed  without  their  consent. 

It  appears  therefore  that  the  only  alternative 
which  now  offers  itself  to  the  inhabitants  of 
Lower  Canada  is  a  choice  between  dissolution 
pure  and  simple,  or  Confederation  on  one  bide, 
and  representation  by  population  on  the  other. 
And  however  opposed  Lower  Canada  may  be  to 
representation  by  population,  is  there  not  immin- 
ent danger  that  it  may  be  linally  imposed  upon 
it,  if  it  resist  all  measures  of  reform,  the  object 
of  which  is  to  leave  to  the  local  authorities  of 
each  section  the  control  of  its  own  interests  and 
institutions. 

We  should  not  forget  that  the  same  authority 
which  imposed  on  U3  the  Act  of  Union,  or  which 
altered  it  without  our  consent,  by  repealing  the 
clause  which  required  the  concurrence  of  two- 
thirds  of  the  members  of  both  Houses  in  order  to 
change  the  representation  respecting  the  two  sec- 
tions, may  again  intervene  to  impose  upon  us  this 

new  change. 

•  •  •  »  •  • 

Tlie  customs,  postal  matters,  laws  regulating 
currency,  patents,  copyrights,  public  lands,  and 
those  ])ublic  works  which  are  of  common  interist 
to  I'll  parts  of  the  (M)unlry,  shouhl  be  tlio  princi- 
pal if  not  the  only  subjects  of  which  the  Fedeial 
Government  would  have  the  control,  while  all 
that  related  to  purely  local  improvements,  to  odu- 


559 


cation,  to  the  administratioa  of  justice,  to  militia, 
to  laws  of  property  and  internal  policy,  should  be 
left  to  the  local  governments,  the  powei-s  of 
which,  in  a  word,  should  extend  to  all  those,  sub- 
jects which  do  not  come  within  the  domain  of  the 
General  Government. 

Your  Committee  believes  that  it  is  easy  to 
prove  that  the  expenses  absolutely  necessary  for 
the  support  of  the  Fjderal  Government  and  the 
several  local  governments  ought  not  to  exceed 
those  of  the  present  system,  while  the  enormous 
indirect  expenses  occasioned  by  the  latter  system 
would  be  avoided  by  the  new — both  on  account 
of  the  additional  restrictions  which  the  Constitu- 
tion would  place  upon  all  public  expenditure,  and 
of  the  more  immediate  responsibility  of  the 
several  officers  of  the  Government  towards  the 
people  who  are  interested  in  restraining  them. 

The  Federal  Legislature  having  only  to  occupy 
itself  with  a  limited  number  of  affairs,  might,  in 
a  short  time  every  year,  perform  all  necessary 
legislation ;  and,  as  the  number  of  members 
would  not  be  very  great,  the  expenses  of  the 
Federal  Government  would  not,  therefore,  be  a 
fraction  of  the  present  expenses,  which,  added  to 
the  cost  of  the  local  governments,  if  they  were  on 
the  plan  of  those  of  the  United  States,  which  are 
the  best  and  the  most  economically  administered, 
could  not  exceed  the  figure  of  the  present 
budget. 

The  system  proposed  could  not  in  any  way 
diminish  the  importance  of  this  colony,  nor 
damage  its  credit,  inasmuch  as  it  offers  the  great 
advantage  of  being  able  to  suit  itself  to  any  ter- 
ritorial extension  which  circumstances  might,  in 
future,  render  desirable,  without  troubling  the 
general  economy  of  the  Confederation. 

A.  A.  DoRiox, 
L.  T.  Drummoxd, 
L.  A.  Dessaulles, 
T.  D.  McGee. 

Mr.  PERREAULT— I  rise  to  a  question 
of  order.  We  have  listened  with  much  plea- 
sure to  the  excellent  pamphlet  which  the  hon- 
orable member  has  been  reading  out  to  us  for 
half  an  hour  past.  I  can  understand  that 
the  honorable  member  having  written  a  pam- 
phlet in  1858  against  Confederation,  and  an- 
other in  1865  in  favor  of  Confederation,  now 
feels  the  necessity  of  writing  a  third  pamph- 
let to  make  the  two  others  agree.  But,  as 
the  honorable  member  for  Montmorency  pos- 
sesses great  powers  of  improvisation,  the 
House,  I  think,  ought  not  to  be  more  indul- 
gent to  him  than  to  other  members,  who  are 
compelled  to  speak  under  all  the  disadvanta- 
ges of  improvisation,  which  is  always  difficult. 
I  have,  therefore,  to  ask  whether  the  honora- 
ble member  for  Montmorency  is  in  order  in 
reading  his  magnificent  speech  from  begin- 
ning to  end  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  — I  see 


nothing  extraordinary  in  this  particular  case. 
I  see  that  my  honorable  friend  the  member 
for  Montmorency  has  notes  before  him  to 
which  he  refers,  but  I  do  not  see  any  speech. 
The  honorable  member  for  Richelieu,  with 
his  eccentric  genius,  requires  no  notes  when 
he  makes  those  splendid  speeches  with  which 
he  regales  us  from  time  to  time.  I  can  easily 
understand  that  for  such  lucubrations  no  very 
lengthy  preparation  is  necessary.  (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON  — Every  one  has 
not  the  genius  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Richelieu.  I  know  also  that  he  is  one  of 
those  who  can  talk  a  long  time,  because  they 
do  not  always  know  what  they  are  saying. 
(Laughter.)  The  honorable  member  may 
talk  as  long  as  he  likes,  without  being  afraid 
of  my  interrupting  him,  for  his  speeches  can 
do  no  harm  except  to  the  person  who  utters 
them.     (Laughter.) 

The  speaker  said  it  was  not  exactly  in 
order  for  an  honorable  member  to  read  a 
speech  quite  through,  but  he  might  make  use 
of  notes. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— From  all  these 
extracts  one  must  conclude  that  either  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  was  ready 
to  sacrifice  everything  in  order  to  attain 
power  in  1858,  or  else  that  in  1858,  as  in 
1859,  he  was  deeply  convinced  that  nothing 
but  representation  by  population  or  a  Federal 
union  of  the  two  Canadas  could  prevent  the 
storm  then  lowerin<r  on  the  horizon.  We  find 
therein,  firstly,  that  we  were  rapidly  reaching 
a  state  of  things  which  would  necessitate  mod- 
ifications in  the  relations  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada ;  secondly,  that  the  proposal  to 
form  a  Federation  of  the  Canadas  was  not 
new ;  thirdly,  that  the  example  of  the  neigh- 
boring States,  where  the  application  of  the  Fed- 
eral system  shewed  how  suitable  it  was  to  the 
government  of  an  immense  territory,  inhabited 
by  people  of  different  origin,  belief,  laws  and 
customs,  had  suggested  the  idea ;  fourthly, 
that  Lower  Canada  would  not  have  any  legi- 
timate motive  to  resist  representation  based 
upon  population  if  it  refused  a  written  Consti- 
tution, under  which  it  would  have  protection 
for  and  control  of  its  institutions ;  fifthly, 
that  it  would  be  in  imminent  danger  of  see- 
ing imposed  upon  it  representation  based  upon 
population,  if  the  Confederation  of  the  two 
Canadas  were  obstinately  resisted,  and  that 
those  who  imposed  the  Union  Act  upon  us,  and 
afterwards  altered  it  to  our  detriment,  could 
oblige  us  to  accept  the  former ;  sixthly,  that 
customs,  currency,  patents,  copyrights,  public 
lands,  public  works  and  things  of  common 


560 


interest  should  be  among  the  attributes  of  the 
Federal  Parliament;  seventhly,  that  the  ex- 
penses of  the  Federal  and  local  governments 
should  not  exceed  those  of  the  present  system. 
The  following  extract,  taken  from  the  same 
document,  must  be  added  to  those  already 
cited : — 

Your  committee  has  therefore  become  con- 
vinced, that  whether  we  consider  the  present 
wants  with  regard  to  the  future  of  this  country, 
the  substitution  of  a  purely  Federal  Government 
for  the  present  legislative  union,  presents  the  true 
solution  of  our  ditficulties,  and  that  such  substi- 
tution would  free  us  from  the  inconveniences, 
while  at  the  same  time  securing  to  us  all  the 
advantages  which  the  present  union  may  possess. 

(Hear,  hear,  and   laughter.)     At  the   same 
period  the  Pays,  with  a  conviction  as  profound 
as   that  of  the   honorable   gentleman   whose 
organ  it  is,  thought  that  if  we  did  not  make 
some  constitutional  concessions  we  should  not 
be  able  to  resist  the  torrent  of  public  opinion 
of  Upper  Canada,  which  threatened  to  break 
through  the  feeble  barrier  opposed  to  it  by  the 
Union  Act  of  1840.     The  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  went  on  with  his  fears  and  his 
convictions  to  the  time  when,  by  an  accident 
unfortunate  for  the  country,   he  again  came 
into  power.     (Hear,   hear.)     It  is  not  then 
merely  the  holding  of  a  ministerial    portfolio 
which  is  cast   up  to  us   to-day.     The    time 
has  then  arrived  when  constitutional  changes 
become   necessary — the   question  of  Confed- 
eration   under    any    form    is,  therefore,    not 
new.      (Hear,  hear.)      To  take  the  United 
States,  as  the  honorable  member  for  Hoche- 
laga has  done,  for  example,  I  will  say  that  the 
Federal  system  is  suitable  for  the  government 
of  an  immense  territory,  inhabited  by  people 
of  different  races,  laws  and  customs,  and  con- 
sequently more  suitable  to  the  Confederation 
of  the  Briti.sh  North  American  Provinces  than 
to  the  smaller  one  of  Upper  and  Lower  Can- 
ada.    Lower  Canada,  "  unless   she   wish  re- 
presentation  based   upon  population,   should 
not  reject  a  written  Constitution  under  which 
she  lias  protection  for  and  control  of  her  pecu- 
liar institutions."      (Hear,   hear.)      Finally, 
the  expenses  of  the  federal  and  local  govern- 
ments and  legislatures  will  not  exceed  those 
of  tlie   present   system.      According  to  the 
Montreal  manifesto  of  185'J,  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment and  Parliament,  liaving  very  little  to 
do,  ouglit  to  cost  but  little,  so  as  to  leave  more 
to  be  done  by  the  local  legislatures.     Accord- 
ing to  the  scheme  of  the  Conference  held  at 
Quebec,  the  tables  arc  turned,  and  it  will  be 
the  local  legislatures  that,  having  but  local 


affairs  to  attend  to,  will  have  to  practise  econ- 
omy for  the  benefit  of  the  General  Govern- 
ment. It  is  therefore  evident  that  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  is  not  more  of  a 
conjuror  than  others.  It  is  again  still  more 
evident  ihat  the  honorable  member  would  be 
less  hostile  to  this  project,  had  he  been  the 
author  of  it,  or  if  he  had  been  sitting  on  the 
right  instead  of  on  the  left  side  of  the  House ; 
for  after  all  it  is  but  a  question  of  expediency, 
at  least  as  regards  principle.  The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  also  told  us : — 

I  would  never  have  attempted  to  make  a  change 
in  the  Constitution  of  the  country  without  being 
convinced  that  the  population  of  that  section  of 
province  which  I  represented  was  favorable  to 
such  a  scheme. 

(Hear.)     I  do  not  wish  to   doubt   his   sin- 
cerity, but  has  he  not  also  said,  '"  I  know  that 
the  possession  of  power  leads  to  despotism  ?' 
Did  he  not  say,  before  the  events  of  1858, 
that  were  he  in  power,  never,  no  never,  would 
he  consent  to  govern  Lower  Canada  with  the 
help  of  an  Upper  Canada  majority,  and  yet 
how  did  he  act  in  1862  ?     How  did  he  act  on 
coming  into  power   in    1863,    alter    having 
ejected  in  such  a  loyal  and  sympathising  man- 
ner his  illustrious  predecessor  and  chief,  Hon. 
Mr.  SicoTTE?      (Hear,  hear.)     It  was  not 
despotism,  but  thirst  for  power,  which  made 
him  adopt  means  to  attain  that  end,  which  I 
shall  not  designate  by  their  proper  name  in 
this    solemn    debate.     (Hear,    hear.)      How 
did  he  act  ?      Forgetting  his  declarations  of 
1858,  he    governed  Lower   Canada   with    a 
weak  minority  of  its  representatives,  and   as, 
according  to  his  ideas,    "  power  led    to   des- 
potism," he   ruled  it  with  that  rod  of  iron 
which  the  radicals  alone  know  how  to  wield. 
But  happily  those  days  of  painful   memories 
are  passed,  and  the  level  of  the  political  soil, 
which  had  sunk  down,  from  some   of  those 
secret  causes  known  to  Providence  alone,  again 
suddenly   rose  up    to  escape    from  the  over- 
flowing torrents  of  demagogic  principles  which 
threatened  society   at  large.     What  the  C)p- 
position  detest  the  most  in  the  project  of  tlie 
Quebec  Conference,  is  its  monarchical  charac- 
ter, as  also   tliose  words  found  at    the   com- 
mencement of  that  remarkable  work : — 

The  best  interests  and  present  and  future 
prosperity  of  British  North  America  will  be  pro- 
moted by  a  Federal  union  under  the  Crown  of 
Great  Britain,  provided  such  union  can  be  oUectod 
on  principles  just  to  the  several  provinces. 

In  the  Federation  of  the  British  North  Ameri- 
can Provinces,  the  system  of  government  best 
adapted,  under  existing  circumstances,  to  pro- 
tect the  diversilicd  iutereata  of  the  several  pro- 


561 


vinces,  and  secure  efficiency,  harmony  and  per- 
manency in  the  working  of  the  union,  would  be 
a  General  Government,  charged  with  matters  of 
common  interest  to  the  whole  country  ;  and 
Local  Governments  for  each  of  the  Canadas,  and 
for  the  Provinces  of  Nova  Scotia,  Ne  tv  Brunswick 
and  Prince  Edward  Island,  charged  with  the 
control  of  local  matters  in  their  respective 
sections.  Provision  being  made  for  the  admis- 
sion into  the  union,  on  equitable  terms,  of  New- 
foundland, the  North-West  Territory,  British 
Columbia,  and  Vancouver. 

We  move  in  a  different  circle  of  ideas  from 
that  in  which  the  Opposition  moves.   We  wish 
in  America,  as  elsewhere,  for  a  monarchy  tem- 
pered by  parliamentary  system  and  minister- 
ial responsibility,  because,  without  interfering 
with  liberty,  it  renders  institutions  more  solid 
and  secure.     We  have  all  seen  British  democ- 
racy holding  its  existence  under  the  protec- 
tion of  the  immutable  aegis  of  Royal  Majesty, 
and  exercising  over  the  destinies  of  the  coun- 
try that  salutary   control   which   has   made 
Great  Britain  so  rich,  so  powerful  and  so  free. 
(Hear,  hear.)     We  have   also  seen,  not  far 
from  our  own  homes,  that  same  democracy 
wrapped  in  the  mantle  of  republicanism,  mov- 
in'i'  at  a  rapid  pace  towards  demagogy,  and 
from  demagogy  to  an  intolerable  despotism. 
(Hear,  hear.)     We  have  seen  military  rule 
extending  over  the  entire  face  of  the  great 
neighboring  republic,   lately  so  proud  of  its 
popular  institutions.     And  we  have  also  seen 
that  people,  so  proud  of  their  liberty,  humbly 
bend  their  necks  to  the  sword  of  the  soldier, 
allow  their  press  to  be  muzzled,  after  having 
condemned  the  system  of  censorship  legalized 
in  France,  and  suffer  their  writers  to  be  im- 
prisoned   without  a   protest.     (Hear,  hear.) 
M.  DE  ToCQUEViLLE  has  lived  too  long  ;  his 
admirable  work   on    democracy   in    America 
produces  upon  our  minds,  at  the  present  day, 
only  the  effect  of  an  heroic  poem  ;   it   is  the 
Isle  of  Calypso,  so  admirably  sung  by  Fene- 
LON,  but  which  fades  away  when  you  hive 
closed  Telemachus.     (Laughter.)     Instead  of 
those  institutions,  framed  with  such  mathe- 
matical precision,  and  that  mechanism  so  fin- 
ished and  so  regular  in  its  course,  there  is  to 
be  seen  but  violent  and  jerking  motions,  over- 
turnings,  and  the  collision   and  smashing  of 
the  component  parts  of  the  disconnected  ma- 
chinery of  state ;  instead  of  peace  and  har- 
mony we  find  civil  war  on  a  gigantic  scale, 
universal  desolation,  formidable  battles,  and 
the  blood  of  brothers  mingling  in  streams  on 
the  soil    •■?  their  common    country.     (Hear, 
hear.)     Whstt  has  become  of  that   race  of 
giants  who,  after  seven  years  of  a  glorious 

72 


struggle,  iaid  the  foundation,  in  1783,  of  the 
American  republic  ?     Disdaining  to  use  the 
means  employed  by  the  smaller  spirits  of  the 
age  to  grasp  at  the  helm  of  the  state,   they 
have  retired  from  the  public   arena,  so  as  to 
live  in  an  honorable  and  dignified  manner  in 
private    retirement — for    the   genius   of  the 
American  people  is  not  dead,  and  the  country 
which  still  produces  great  judges  and  learned 
jurists   could    also,   under   another   order   of 
things,    and  in  a  different   moral   condition, 
give  birth  to  new  Washingtons,  Franklins, 
Uamiltons,  Adams,  and  Madisons.    (Hear, 
hear.)     They  did  not  act  wrongly  then,  those 
forty  chosen  men  of  British  North  America 
who  came  to  Quebec  to  erect  a  new  nation  on 
the  monarchical  basis,  and  as  much  as  possible 
on  the  principles  of  the  Parliament  of  Great 
Britain.     It  seems  to  us  that  that  authority 
was  imposing  enough  to  merit  the  respect  of 
men  of  much  less  experience,  and  much  less 
versea  in  the  science  of  government.     (Hear 
hear.)     And  yet  when  the  honorable  member 
for  Joliette   asked  with  much  reason  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbini^re  why  he  did 
not  speak  of  Confederation  based  upon  mon- 
archical principles,  the  latter  gentleman  an- 
swered that  he  could  not  speak  of  what  did 
not  exist,  and  of  what  was  absur.i.     He  was 
like  the  French  savant  who,  in  1836,  proved 
by  arguments  not  to  be  refuted,  that  it  was 
impossible  to  cross  the  ocean  with  steam  as 
the  motive  power.     But  while  he  was  thus 
floundering  through  his  powerful  and  learned 
arguments,  the  Sirius  was  steaming  majesti- 
cally across  the  Atlantic  as  if  to  mock  the 
wisdom  of  science.     Facts  are  stubborn  and 
positive  things.     (Hear,  hear.)     We  are  not 
here,  like  Columbus,  looking  for  an  unknown 
world  ;   yet  the  honorable  member  who  went 
;is  far  back  as  the  hei'oic  times  of  Greece  to 
find  arguments  against  all  Confederations,  who 
unfolded  pompously  to  our  gaze  Roman  his- 
tory to  prove  to  us  that  what  was  strong  and 
durable  was  formed  piece  by  piece,  and  that 
even  what  is  actually  strong  must  also  perish,  as 
the  Roman  Empire  had  ended  by  succumbing 
under  the  weight  of  its  own  power  ;  who,  bent 
on  finding  out  Confederations  in  confusion,  and 
in  the  midst  o^ pronunciamentos,  of  movimen- 
tos  and  o(  echaujfourees,  travelled  through  with- 
out seeing  them,  those  non-federative  Spanish- 
American  republics,  so  irritable   and  so  agi- 
tated ;  who,  to  be   faithful  to  this  system,  at- 
tributed the  five  hundred  years'  existence  of 
the  Swiss  Confederation  to  every  other  cause 
tlian  to  the  stability  of  its  principle,  and  to 
the  conservative  and  national  character  of  its 


56^ 


inhabitants ;  and  who,  in  his  enthusiasm  for 
his  doctrines,  did  not  see  that  the  European 
equilibrium  would  have  been  secui'e  just  as 
well  by  the  existence  of  one  or  more  distinct 
states  as  with  a  Confederation  in  the  Helvetic 
Mountains  —  he  failed  to  see  not  far  from 
the  native  land  of  his  ancestors,  the  noble 
Helvetia  which  conquered  and  maintained 
for  five  centuries  its  independence  in  the 
midst  of  the  most  terrible  conflicts  which 
shook  the  soil  of  Europe,  which  overturned 
thrones  and  transformed  nations — he  has  not 
seen,  in  flesh  and  blood,  a  Confederation  rest- 
ing almost  entirely  on  the  monarchical  prin- 
ciple— the  Germanic  Confederation — of  which 
Austria  is  the  head,  and  for  which  this  latter 
power  and  Prussia  alone  can  decide  questions 
of  peace  and  war.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  was 
preceded  by  the  Confederation  of  the  Rhine, 
which  had  found  like  it  its  elements  and  its 
mode  of  being  in  the  ancient  empire  found- 
ed by  Charlemagne,  "  the  strongest  hand 
that  ever  existed,"  to  use  the  splendid 
expression  of  Ozanam  ;  the  Germanic  Em- 
pire, a  true  confederation  of  princes,  be- 
coming really  independent  in  the  course  of 
centuries,  and  kings  in  their  respective  states 
under  the  Imperial  suzerainty.  The  Golden 
Bull  promulgated  by  tlie  Emperor  Charles 
IV.,  in  1356,  gives  us  some  useful  in- 
formation on  this  subject.  I  would  refer 
the  honorable  member  for  Lotbiuicre  to  it. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  why  should  wc  ransack 
history  to  establish  a  fact  which  is  as  clear 
as  day  ?  Is  it  not  sufficient  to  open  the  first 
dictionary  at  hand  to  know  that  the  word 
"  confederation  "  means  simply  "  league," 
union  of  states  or  sovereigns,  of  nations,  or 
even  of  armies  for  a  common  object.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  honorable  member  has  there- 
lore  ill-chosen  his  time  to  be  witty  at  the 
expense  of  a  man  of  sense.  He  declared 
him.sclf  by  turns  against  the  Fedend  prin- 
ciple and  against  legislative  unity.  Appealing 
alternately  to  every  prejudice  to  attain  his 
object,  he  said  to  the  i'rench-Canadian 
Catholics  —  "  Jlcbist  Confederation,  because  it 
will  leave  you  without  protection  in  the 
Federal  Governmentand  Parliament  "  'J'hon, 
turning  towards  English  PruteHtants,  and 
reading  complacently  to  them  an  extract  fruin 
Lord  DukiiAiM's  report,  ho  said  : — "  Do  not 
vote  for  Confederation  ;  y«iu  would  be  at  Ihe 
mercy  of  a  French  and  Catholic  majority  in 
the  Local  Government  and  Parliament." 
(Hear,  hear.)  Altiiough  the  direct  reviTse 
in  every  other  respect  of  the  honorable 
member  for  llochelaga,  his  conduct  proves 


that  he  believes  with  that  honorable 
gentleman  "  that  power  engenders  des- 
potism." But,  in  his  place,  at  the  outset  of 
my  public  career,  full  of  youth  and  of  the 
generous  sentiments  which  it  in.<pires,  in- 
stead of  setting  the  torch  to  such  inflammable 
elements  as  national  and  religious  preju- 
dices, I  should  have  imitated  the  example 
of  the  honorable  member  for  Montreal 
Centre  ;  and  in  order  to  calm  mutual  distrust, 
I  should  have  endeavored  to  fulfil  my  duty 
by  recalling  the  emineutly  honorable,  chris- 
tian and  civilising  history  of  the  last  quarter 
of  a  century.  (Cheers  )  But  the  honorable 
gentleman  w:is  evidently  incapable  of  so 
doing.  He  had  just  emerged  terrified  from 
■dBi'idst  the pronunciamentos,  the  eclmuffouries 
and  the  movimentcs  of  the  very  civilized 
Spanish  Confederations  of  Central  America, 
and  full  of  feverish  agitation,  he  launched 
himself  on  spreading  pinions  towards  the 
rain-bow  and  the  aiifora  bcrrealis.  (Laugh- 
ter.) We  know  what  the  rainbow  is 
physically.  It  is  composed  of  drops  of 
water,  which,  placed  at  a  certain  angle  facing 
the  sun,  refract  and  reflt-ct  its  light  with 
all  the  colors  of  which  it  is  composed 
(Laughter.)  As  to  the  aurora  borealis, 
some  attribute  it  to  the  reverberations  of 
solar  light  on  the  snows  of  the  North  Pole, 
whither  the  honorable  gentleman  proceeded 
in  order  to  find  the  vast  territory  with  which 
he  wishes  us  to  form  the  Confederation 
domain  But  the  opinion  most  generally 
accepted  is  that  it  is,  in  a  manner,  some- 
thing imponderable  and  unsubstantial. 
(Laughter.)  Our  people,  seeing  them 
moving  in  all  directions  with  the  most 
prodigious  rapidit}  ,  rising,  falling,  doubling 
backward  and  forward  on  each  other  with 
such  inconceivable  rapidity,  have  given  them 
the  true  and  picturesque  name  of  dancing 
puppets  {marioniicttfs).  Hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) It  is,  therefore,  easily  seen  that  if  they 
hold  in  hoiror  the  prejudices  which  are  pro- 
ductive of  so  much  evil,  their  mind  is  at  lea.st 
no*;  so  torpidjis  the  hon.  member  for  Lotbi- 
ui6re  believes,  and  it  is  at  least  not  rccepsary 
to  arousj  thcni  in  this  manner  ( Hear,  hear. ) 
\Vt!  kni>w  what  invariably  hapjiens  to  all 
these  luminous  mofoor.s.  Jacko'  the  Lanterns 
and  Will  o'  the  Wisps  having  ooniplacfntly 
expanded  thenisi'lvcs  on  the  contines  of  the 
infinite  horizon,  after  having  gambolled  at 
thttir  ease,  boiMiine  seriiius  and  solrnin — they 
are  .seized  with  the  ambition  of  ast^ending  to 
the  zenith.  But  as  they  have,  "  with  the 
stature  of  a  giant,  but  tho  strength  of  a 


568 


child,''   they  soou  diminish  and   disappear, 
to  be,  in  the  words  of  Bossuet,  "  qu'nn  je 
ne  sais  quoi  qui  n' a  plus  de  nom  dans  avaine 
langue  (a  thing  which  has  no  name  in  any 
tongue)."     (Hear,  hear.)     On  close  exami- 
nation, however,  it  would  be  seen  that  the 
hon.  member  was  not  so  sarcastic  as  might 
have    been    at    first    supposed,    when    he 
suggested  the  iris  as  the  emblem  of  the  new 
Confederation.     The  rainbow,  from  a  figura- 
tive point  of  view,  is  the  emblem  of  alliance, 
and  consequently  of  strength  and  durability — 
it  is  the  symbol  of  peace  and  calm  after  a  long 
day  of  storm  and  tempest — it  is  the  pledge  of 
promise  that,  in  future,  the    flood-gates  of 
demagogy   will   no   longer    be   opened    on 
the  country,  to   leave  upon  its  surface  that 
morbid  sediment,   the  fetid  odors  of  which 
still   offend   the   moral  sense   of  the   people 
after  their  unwholesome  waters  have  retired. 
(Cheers.)     It  is  the  unity  of  many-colored 
rays  which,  combined,  produces    light    and 
heat    and    fecundity.     I   should,    therefore, 
advise  those  who  will  be  charged  at  a  future 
day  with  our  new  destinies   to    adopt    the 
rainbow  as  our  national  emblem,  and  to  give 
credit  to  the  hon.  member  for  Lotbiuidre, 
who  will  doubtless  be  astonished  to  find  that 
he  has  been  so  wonderfully  inspired.  (^Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)     If  there  were  never  to 
be  any  mutual  confidence  among  men  ;  if  we 
were  for  ever  destined  to  fear  and  suspect  each 
other  reciprocals,   we   would   be  obliged  to 
renounce  all  idea  of  government  as  well  as 
all  the  relations  of  social   life      The   very 
laws   which   protect   persons    and    property 
would  be  without  value,  because  they   are 
expounded   by    men.     (Hear,    hear.)     For- 
tunately such   is   not  the   case,  as   our  own 
history    sufficiently     proves.       Before    the 
union,  the  parliamentary  majority  in   Lower 
Canada  was   Catholic,  and   although  it  was 
long  involved  in  a  struggle  wirh  power,  was 
it  ever  guilty  of  an  injustice    towards  the 
Protestant  minority  ?      (Hear,  hear.)     On 
the    contrary,    did   it    not    emancipate    the 
latter,  civilly  and  religiously,  and  did  it  not 
give  that  minority   privileges  which  it  had 
not    hitherto    possessed  ?      If    our    people 
are  inflexibly  attached  to    our   faith,  it   is 
a^so  full  of  toleration,    of  good-will   towards 
those  who  are  not  of  the  same  belief.     Since 
the  union  the  parts  have  changed.     Protes- 
tantism dominates  in  the  government  and  in 
the  legislature,  and  yet  has  not  Catholicity 
been  better  treated,   and    has   it    not   been 
better  developed,  with  more  liberty  and  more 
prosperity  tha:.  under  the  regime  of  the  Con- 


stitutiun  of  1791.  (Hear,  hear.)  Living 
and  laboring  together  we  have  learned  to 
know,  to  respect,  to  esteem  each  other,  and 
to  make  mutual  couces.>*ions  for  the  common 
weal.  We  Catholics  have  therefore  no  fear 
of  the  ill-will  of  a  Protestant  majority  in  the 
Federal  Government  and  Legislature,  and 
we  are  certain  that  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada  need  not  fear  for  themselves  in  the 
local  legislature.  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.) 
The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  has  declared 
that  he  was  willing  to  accord  to  the  Protest- 
ants the  guarantees  of  protection  which  tiiey 
sought  for  the  education  of  their  children  ; 
but  in  this  he  has  been  forestalled  by  the 
Quebec  Conference  and  by  the  unanimous 
sentinient  of  the  Catholic  population  of 
.L'lwer  Canada.  If  the  present  law  be  in- 
sufficient, let  it  be  changed.  Justice  demands 
that  the  Protestant  minority  of  Lower  Canada 
shall  be  protected  in  the  same  manner  as  the 
Catholic  minority  of  Upper  Canada,  and  that 
the  rights  acquired  by  the  one  and  the  other 
shall  not  be  assailed  either  by  the  Federal 
Parliament  or  the  local  legislatures.  (Hear, 
hear.)  This  is  all  I  feel  called  upon  to  say, 
on  this  occasion,  respecting  a  question  which 
will  again  arise  in  the  course  of  the  debate. 
The  hon.  member  for  Lotbiniere  has  attacked 
the  scheme  as  being  too  federal,  and  the  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  has  condemned  it  as 
not  being  sufficiently  federal,  and  as  tending 
too  much  towards  unity.  Neither  one  nor 
the  other  is  stiictly  accurate — it  is  not  ab- 
solute unity,  nor  the  federal  principle  in  the 
American  sense.  In  the  American  Confed- 
eration, supreme  authority  proceeded  at  the 
outset  from  the  delegation  of  the  states, 
which  nevertheless  divested  themselves  of  it 
forever — at  least  according  to  the  opinion  of 
the  Northern  jurisconsults,  who  hold  that  no 
state  is  free  to  break  the  compact  of  1788. 
In  the  scheme  of  the  Quebec  Confer?nce 
there  was  no  delegation  of  the  suprenie 
authority,  either  from  above  or  below,  inas- 
much as  the  provinces,  not  being  independ- 
ent states,  received,  their  political  organiza- 
tions from  the  Parliament  of  the  Empire. 
There  are  only  distinct  attributes  for  the  one 
and  the  others.  (He:ir,  hear.)  Unity  does 
not  obtain  in  an  absolute  sense,  because  local 
interests  and  institutions  required  in  tho  local 
constitutions,  guarantees  and  protections 
which  they  feared  the}'  would  not  find  in  the 
united  Parliament  and  Government.  But  it  is 
as  complete  as  possible,inasmuch  as  unity  gives 
to  institutions  chances  of  duration,  and  an 
initiatory  force  which  is   not  given,  which 


564 


cannot  be  given,  by  conffKleracies  in  which 
authority  is  scattered,  and  where  it  is  con- 
sequently without  value  and  without  real 
existence.  Every  constitutional  mode  of 
existence  has  its  advontai^es;  but  assuredly 
that  state  of  existence  which  gives  perman- 
ence and  stability  to  institutions  should  be 
preferred  to  others.  Let  us  bear  in  mini 
that  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States 
has  been  bat  a  compromise  between  state 
sovereignty  and  the  need  of  a  supreme 
authority  to  ensure  the  working  of  the  state 
machinery,  and  that  it  was  not  perfect  even 
in  the  opinion  of  its  authors.  In  order  to 
prove  thi.3  statement,  I  shall  call  to  my  assist- 
ance words  of  greater  weight  than  uiy  own — 
those  of  Joseph  Storey,  probably  the 
greatest  constitutional  authority  of  the 
United  States  : — 

Aqj  survey,  however  slight,  of  the  Conteder- 
ation  will  impress  the  mind  with  the  iiitriasie 
difficulties  which  attended  the  formatioa  of  its  prin- 
cipal features.  It  is  well  known  that  upon  three 
important  points  touching  the  commoa  rights  and 
interests  of  the  several  states,  much  diversity  of 
opinion  prevailed,  and  many  animated  discussions 
took  place.  The  first  was  as  to  the  mode  of 
voting  in  Congress,  whether  it  should  be  by 
states  or  according  to  wealth  or  population.  The 
second,  as  to  the  rule  by  which  the  expeuses  of 
the  Union  should  be  apportioned  among  the 
states.  And  the  third,  as  has  been  already  seen, 
relative  to  the  disposal  of  the  vacant  and  unappro- 
priated lands  in  the  western  territory.  But  that 
which  strikes  us  with  most  f..rce  is  the  increasing 
jealousy  aud  watchfulness  everywhere  betrayed 
la  respect  to  the  powers  to  be  confided  to  the 
General  Government.  For  this  several  causes 
may  be  assigned.  The  colonies  had  been  long 
engaged  in  struggles  against  tue  superintending 
authority  of  the  Crown,  and  had  practically  felt 
the  inconveniences  of  the  restrictive  legislation 
of  the  parent  country.  These  struggles 
had  naturally  led  to  a  general  feeling  of  resis- 
tance of  all  external  authority,  and  these  in- 
conveniences to  extreme  doubts,  if  not  to  dreud 
of  any  legislation,  not  exclusively  originating  in 
their  domestic  assemblies.  They  had,  as  yet, 
not  felt  the  impoitauce  or  necessity  of  union 
among  themselves,  having  been  hitherto  con- 
nected with  the  British  sovereignty  in  all  their 
foreign  relations.  What  would  be  their  fute,  as 
separate  and  independent  coinniutiities ,  how  far 
their  interests  would  coincide  or  vary  from  each 
other  as  such;  what  would  be  the  elfecla  of  the 
union  upon  their  domestic  |ieuce,  their  territorial 
interests,  their  external  coiniuerce,  their  political 
security,  or  their  civil  liberty,  were  points  to  them 
wholly  of  a  8i)eculative  character,  in  regard  to 
which  various  opinions  might  be  eiilei  Uiiiicd,  and 
various  and  even  opposite  conjectures  formed, 
upon  grounds  apparently  of  equal    plausibility. 


Nothwithstanding  the  declaration  of  the  articles, 
that  the  union  of  the  states  was  to  be  perpetual, 
an  examination  of  the  powers  confided  to  the 
(ieneral  Government  would  easily  satisfy  us  that 
they  looked  principally  to  the  existing  revolu- 
tionary state  of  things.  The  principal  powers 
respected  the  operations  of  war,  and  would  be 
dormant  in  times  of  peace.  In  short,  Congress 
in  peace  wrs  possessed  of  but  a  delusive  and 
shadowy  sovereignty,  with  little  more  than  the 
empty  pageantry  of  office.  They  were  indeed 
clothed  wiih  the  authority  of  sending  and  receiving 
ambassadors  ;  of  entering  into  treaties  and  allian- 
ces ;  of  appointing  courts  for  the  trial  of  piracies 
and  felonies  on  the  high  seas  ;  of  regulating  the 
public  coin;  of  fixing  the  standard  of  weights  and 
measures ;  of  regulating  trade  with  Indians,  of 
establishing  post  offices;  of  borrowing  money  and 
emitting  bills  on  the  credit  of  the  United 
States :  of  ascertaining  and  appropriating  the 
sums  necessary  for  defraying  the  public  ex- 
penses, and  of  disposing  of  the  western  ter- 
ritory. And  most  of  these  powers  required  for 
their  exercise  the  assent  of  nine  states.  But  they 
possessed  not  the  power  to  raise  any  revenue, 
to  levy  any  tax,  to  enforce  any  law,  to  secure 
any  right,  to  regulate  any  tra  'e,  oi  even  the  poor 
prerogative  of  commanding  means  to  pay  its  own 
ministers  at  a  foreign  court.  They  could  contract 
debts,  but  they  were  without  means  to  discharge 
them.  They  could  pledge  the  public  faiih,  but 
they  were  incapable  of  redeeming  it.  They  could 
enter  into  treaties,  but  every  state  in  the  union 
might  disobey  them  with  impunity.  They  could 
contract  alliances,  but  could  not  command  men 
or  money  to  give  them  vigor.  They  could  insti- 
tute courts  for  piracies  and  felonies  on  the  hiah 
seas,  but  they  had  no  means  to  pay  either  the 
judges  or  the  jurors.  In  short,  all  powers  which 
did  not  execute  themselves  were  ;'t  the  mercy  of 
the  states,  and  might  be  trampled  upon  at  will 
with  impunity. 

One  of  our   leading  writers  addressed  the 
following  strong  language  to  ihe  public  : — 

By  this  [lolitical  compact  the  United  States  in 
Congress  have  exclusive  power  for  the  following 
jmrposes,  without  being  able  to  execute  one  of 
them  :  they  may  make  and  conclude  treaties,  but 
can  only  i-ecomii'.end  the  observance  of  them. 
They  may  appoint  ambassadors,  but  cannot  de- 
frav  even  the  expenses  of  their  tablis.  They 
may  borrcnv  money  in  their  own  name  on  the 
faith  of  thp  union,  but  cannot  pay  a  dollar.  They 
may  coin  money,  but  they  cannot  purchase  an 
ounce  of  bullion.  They  may  make  war,  and 
determine  whrtt  number  of  troops  are  necessary, 
but  cannot  raise  a  single  soldier.  In  short,  they 
may  declaie  everything,  but  do  nothing. 

Strong  as  tliis  language  may  seoui,  it  bus  no 
coloring  beyond  what  the  naked  truth  would 
ju>tilY.  Washinoton  himself,  that  pnlriot 
without  Hiaiu   or  reproach,  speaks,  iu  17S5, 


565 


with  unusual  significancy  on  the  same  sub- 
ject. '•  In  a  word,"  says  he,  "  the  Confed- 
eration appears  to  me  to  be  little  more  than 
a  shadow  without  the  substance,  and  Con- 
gress a  nugatory  body,  their  ordinances  being 
little  attended  to."  Tha  same  seutitu'^nts 
may  be  found  in  many  public  docuiaeuts. 
One  of  the  most  humiliating  proofs  of  the 
utter  inability  of  Congress  to  enforce  even 
the  exclusive  powers  vested  in  it,  is  to  be 
found  in  the  argumentative  circular  addressed 
by  it  to  the  several  states,  in  April,  1787, 
entreatiug  them  in  the  most  supplicating 
manner  to  repeal  such  of  their  laws  as  inter- 
fered with  the  treaties  with  foreign  nations. 
"  If  in  theory,"  says  the  biographer  of  Wash- 
ington, "  the  treaties  formed  by  Congress 
were  obligatory,  yet  it  had  been  demonstra- 
ted that  in  practice  that  body  was  absolutely 
unable  to  carry  them  into  execution." — 

In  tbis  state  of  things,  the  embarrassments  of 
the  couatry  in  its  financial  concerns,  the  general 
pecuniary  distress  among  the  people  from  the  ex- 
hausting operations  of  the  war,  the  total  prostra- 
tion of  commerce  and  the  languishing  unthrit'tiness 
of  agriculiure,  gave  new  impulses  to  the  already 
marked  political  divisions  in  the  Legislative 
Councils.  Efforts  were  made  on  our  side  to  re- 
lieve the  pressure  of  the  public  calamities  by  a 
resort  to  the  issue  of  paper  money,  to  tender 
laws,  and  instalment  and  other  laws,  having  for 
their  object  the  postponement  of  the  payment  of 
private  debt,  and  a  diminution  of  the  public  taxes. 
On  the  other  side,  public  as  well  as  private  credi- 
tors became  alarmed  from  the  increased  dangers 
to  property,  and  the  increased  facility  of  perpe- 
trating frauds,  to  the  destruction  of  all  private 
faith,  and  credit.  And  thi^y  insisted  strenuously 
upon  the  establishment  of  a  government  and  sys- 
tem of  laws  which  should  preserve  the  public 
faith  and  redeem  the  country  from  that  ruin 
which  always  follows  upon  the  violation  of  the 
principles  of  justice  and  the  moral  obligation  of 
contracts.  "  At  length,"  we  are  told,  "  two  great 
parties  were  formed  in  every  state,  which  were 
distinctly  marked  and  which  pursued  distinct  ob- 
jects with  systematic  arrangement."  The  wonder 
indeed  is,  not  under  such  circumstances,  that  the 
constitution  should  have  encountered  the  most 
ardent  opposition,  but  that  it  should  ever  have 
been  adopted  at  all  by  the  majority  of  the  states. 
In  the  convention  itself  which  framed  it,  there 
was  a  great  diversity  of  judgment,  and  upon  some 
vital  subjects  an  intense  and  irreconcilable  hostil- 
ity of  opinion.  It  is  understood  that,  at  several 
periods  the  convention  were  upon  the  point  of 
breaking  up  without  accomplishing  anything.  On 
the  other  hand,  if  the  votaries  of  the  national 
government  are  fewer  in  number,  they  are  likely 
to  enlist  in  its  favor  men  of  ardent  ambition, 
comprehensive  views  and  powerful  genius.  A 
love  of  the  union,  a  sense  of  its  importance — nay, 
of  its  necessity  to  secture  permanence  and  safety 


to  our  political  liberty  ;  a  consciousness  that  the 
powers  of  the  national  constitution  are  eminently 
calculated  to  preserve  peace  at  home  and  dignity 
abroad,  and  to  give  value  to  property,  and  system 
and  harmony  to  the  great  interests  of  agriculture, 
commerce  and  manufactures ;  a  consciousness, 
too,  that  the  restraints  which  it  imposes  upon  the 
states  are  the  only  efficient  means  to  preserve 
public  and  private  justice,  and  to  ensure  tranquil- 
lity amidst  the  conflicting  interests  and  rivalries  of 
the  states — these  will  doubtless  combine  many 
sober  and  reflecting  minds  in  its  support.  If  to 
this  number  we  are  to  add  those  whom  the  larger 
rewards  of  fame  or  emolument  or  influence  con- 
nected with  a  wider  sphere  of  action  may  allure 
to  the  national  councils,  there  is  much  reason  to 
presume  that  the  union  will  not  be  without  reso- 
lute friends. 

The  events  now  occurrino-  ia  the  Uui^^ed 
States  s'lfficieatly  prove,  I  think,  that  the 
fears  of  the  illustrious  founders  of  the  Union 
were  not  without  some  fouudation.  The 
scheme  of  Constitution  which  is  submitted 
to  us  is  also  a  compromise,  but  a  compro- 
mise in  the  best  conditions  of  existence,  and 
in  those  least  dangerous  to  the  stability  and 
the  strength  of  the  nation  to  which  it  is  to 
give  being.  Unity  moves  more  at  ease,  and 
the  checks  placed  therein  for  the  benefit  of 
the  sections  are  placed  in  such  a  manner  as 
not  to  obstruct  the  general  action.  It  is  not 
so  much  against  the  Federal  principle  that 
the  greater  number  of  the  arguments  of  the 
hon.  member  for  Hochelaira  are  directed. 
For  him  it  is  a  party  question  which  he  puts 
to  himself  in  this  manner  : — '  How  shall  we 
find  ourselves,  my  friends  and  myself,  in  this 
Confederation  ?  Shall  we  be  strong  or  weak  ? 
May  we  hope  to  regain  power,  or  shall  we  be 
lost  like  so  many  drops  of  water  in  the 
ocean  ?"  In  order  to  convince  the  House 
that  I  have  correctly  appreciated  the  motive 
of  the  hon.  gentleman's  (Hon.  Mr.DoRiON's) 
opposition,  I  shall  quote  from  his  speech  of 
the  16th  inst. : — 

Hon.  Mr.  Dorion — But,  sir,  I  may  be  asked» 
admitting  all  that — admitting  that  the  scheme 
now  submitted  to  us  is  not  that  which  has  been 
promised  us,  what  difference  will  the  immediate 
admission  of  the  Provinces  into  the  Confederation 
make?  I  will  try  to  explain  it.  When  the 
ministers  consented  to  the  votes  in  the  Conference 
being  taken  by  provinces,  they  gave  a  great  ad- 
vantage to  the  Maritime  Provinces.  This  mode 
of  procedure  had  for  its  result  the  most  conserva- 
tive measure  that  was  ever  submitted  to  the 
House.  The  members  of  the  Upper  House  are 
no  longer  to  be  elected,  but  nominated — and  by 
whom?  By  a  Tory  or  Conservative  Government 
for  Canada,  by  a  Conservative  Government  in 
Nova  Scotia,  by  a  Conservative  Government  in 
Prince  Edward  Island,  and  by  a  Conservativa 


.566 


Government  in  Newfoundland,  the  only  Liberal 
Government  concerned  in  the  nomination  of  the 
Upper  House  being  that  of  New  Brunswick,  where 
there   is  a  Liberal   Administration,  whose   fate 
depends  on  the  result  of  the  elections  now  taking 
place  in  that  province.     A  similar  scheme  would 
never  have  been  adopted  by  the  Liberal  members 
from  Upper  Canada,  the  people  of  which  section, 
to  the  number  of  1,400,000,  with  those  in  the 
Lower  Province,  making  in  all  2,500,000,    have 
been  controlled  by   the  900,000   people   of  the 
Maritime  Provinces.     Have  we  not  been  told  in 
set  terms  that  it  was  the  Lower  Provinces  which 
did  not  want  an  elective  Legislative  Council  ?     If, 
instead  of  inviting  to  a  Conference  the  delegates 
of  the  Lower  Provinces,   our   Government    had 
done  what  it  engaged  to  do,  namely—  had  itself 
prepared   a  Constitution,  it  would   never  have 
dared  to  draw  up  a  proposal  like  this  now  laid 
before  us ;  it  would  never  have  proposed  a  Legis- 
lative. Council  nominated  for  life,  with  a  limited 
membership,  and  which  has  to  be  named  by  four 
Tory  Governments.     Reckoning  15  to  20  years, 
as  the   average   of  the  time    each   Legislative 
Councillor   will  hold  his  seat,  a  century    would 
elapse  before  its  composition  could  be  entirely 
changed!      We  will  have,    thus,    a   Legislative 
Council  lasting  for  ever — at  least  as  regards  this, 
and  the  next  generation — controlled  by  the  in- 
fluence which  to-day  preponderates  in  our  Govern- 
ment and  in  those  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  ; 
and  are  we  going  to  believe,  as  the  present  docu- 
ment promises   us,   that  a  government  like  that 
which  we  possess  now,  will  employ  itself  in  get- 
ting the  Opposition  represented  in  the  Legislative 
Council?     (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)     I  thank 
the  delegates  for  their  solicitude  as  regards  the 
Opposition,  but  I  rely  but  little  on  their  promises. 
Did  we  not  hear  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
West  say  the  other  day,  turning  towards  his  sup- 
porters :   "If  I    had   the   recommending  of  the 
nominations,  I  would   advise  ihe   choice  of  the 
most  qualilied— but  of  course,  of  my  own  party. 
(Hear.  h(-ar.)     It  would  be  done  in  this  way,  sir ; 
and,  if  tiiis  precious  scheme  is  put  into  operation, 
we  shall  liave  a  Legislative  Counci.  divided  in  the 
following  manner:  for  Upper  Canada,  we   shall 
probably  have  Liberals  in  the  proportion  of  .3  to 
'J,  for  I  supjjose  that  the  honorable  member  for 
South  Oxford  (Honorable  Mr.  Brown)  has  made 
enough  hacrifices  to  deserve  at  least  this  conces- 
sion, and  as  his  friends  constitute  a  fourth  of  the 
Executive  Council,  I  suppose  we  shall  have  also 
one-fourth  of  tiie  Executive  Couucillors  for  Upper 
Canada,  Liberals. 

Hon.    Attorney  General    Macdoxai.d — Hear, 
hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  Hoi.TOX — Exactly  25  per  cent. 
Hon.  Mr.  DoKioN — Yes;  precisely  25  percent. 
Besides,  we  shall  have  for  Nova  Scotia  ten  Con- 
servatives, from  Prince  Edward  Island  four 
more,  and  four  from  Newfoundlund.  Thus  we 
are  to  have  eighteen  Conservativis  from  the 
Lower  Provinces,  who,  added  to  the  thirty-six 
from  Canada,  will  make  fifty-four  Conservatives, 
against  l.venty-two  Liberals,  supposing  that  the  ten 


Legislative  Councillors  from  New  Brunswick  will 
all  be  Liberals.    Now,  supposing  that  the  average 
of  deaths  amounted  to  three  per  cent,  in  a  year,  it 
would  n'ed  a  term  of  thirty  yeara  to  brin,'  about  a 
change  in  the  character  of  the  majority  of  the 
Council,  taking  it  for  granted  that  the  additions 
which  miy(ht  be  made  to  it  would  be  taken  from 
the  ranks  of  the  Liberal  party.     Yet  that  would 
be  scarcely  possible.     In   some   of  the   Lower 
Provinces  there  would  be  from  time  to  time  Con- 
servative Governments,  and  there  might  be  also 
a  Conservative  Government  in  Canada.     (Hear, 
hear,    and    laughter.)      And    the    present   gen- 
eration   will    have     passed    away    before     the 
opinions  of  the  Liberal  party  will   have  any  in- 
fluence in  the  divisions  of  the  Legislative  Council. 
Mr.  Mackenzie — That  makes  no  difference. 
Hon.    Mr.    DoRiox — The  hon.    member    for 
1  ambton   says  that   makes  no  difference  !     The 
honorable  member  is  ready  to  accept  everythiiig, 
but  for  those  who  are  not  so  well  disposed,  the 
difference  would  be  that  we  would  be  bound  by 
this  constitution  which  will  permit  the  Legislative 
Council    to  throw  oTistacles    in   the   way  of  oil 
measures  of  reform   wished  for   by  the   Liberal 
party.     If  the  hon.  member  for  Lambton  thinkt 
that  that  makes  no    difference,  I  will   take  the 
liberty  of  differing  from  him,  and  I    think  that 
the  Liberal  party  generally  will  differ  from  him 
also.     The  Government  told    us  that  they  were 
obliged  to  consent  to  the  introduction  of  certain 
measui-es  in  the  project  of  Confederation  which 
did  not  altogether  please  them,  so  aa  to  come  to 
an  understanding  with  the  Lower  Province  dele- 
gates, and  that  they  bound   themselves  to  cause 
the  scheme  to  be  adopted  by  this  House  without 
amendment.     Does  the  hon.  gentleman  not  see  a 
difference  now  ?     If  the  two    Canadaa  were  the 
only  interested   parties,   the  majority  would   act 
as   they    jtleased,    would    examine  minutely    the 
Constitution,  and  erase  all    measures  which  did 
not  suit  them,  and    a  proposition   such   as  that 
relative  to  the  Legislative  Council  would  have  uo 
chance  of  bt-ing   adopted — it  is  too  short  a  time 
ago   since    this    House    voted,     by   a   crushing 
majority,  the  substitution  of  an  elective  Council 
for  a  Council  nominated  by  the  Crown.     In  fact^ 
the  Council  named  by  the  Crown  had  so  fallen  in 
public  estimation — I  do  not  say  so  on  account  of  the 
men  who  composed  it,  but  still  such  was  the  tact, 
that  it  exercised  no  inlluente  ;  it  was  even  ditficult 
to   as.semble  a   quorum  of  membere — a   change 
had  become  absolutely  necessary,  and  up  to   the 
present  time  the  elective  system  has  worked  well 
— the  elected  members  are  equal  in  every  rt>spect 
to  those  nominated  hy  the   (5rown.     Well,   it  is 
just  as  puljlic  attention  commences  to  be  bestowed 
upon  the  j>ruci-edings'of  the  Upper  House,  that 
wo  are  to  change  its  constitution  to  give  it  the 
|tla9o  of  the  same   one  we  -so  short  a  time  ago 
condemned.     I   said   same   Constituti«>n — I    mis- 
takc,  Mr.  Stkakkk,  we  want  to  substitute  for  tlie 
present  Constitution   one   nnich  worse  tiian  the 
old  one,  and  one  for  which  it  is  impossible  to  fmd 
a  precedent. 


567 


Here,  then,  is  the  solution  of  the  enigma; 
here,  then,'  is  the  reason  why  Federal  union 
is  worthless — without  us  there  is  no  country 
— it  is  uo  longer  the  doctrine  :  ''^Let  thecoivntr)/ 
perish  rather  than  a  principle  he  abandoned," 
but  '■^et  the  country  perish  rather  than  a  polit- 
ical party  should  succumb."  It  is  less  absurd, 
but  at  the  same  time  less  noble,  and  if  it  be 
not  cynical  in  words,  it  is  so  undouDtedly  in 
conception.  (Hear,  hear.)  What  !  must  we 
resist  in  future  all  progress,  all  strength  and 
national  greatness,  solely  because  a  party, 
which  exhausted  itself  almost  at  its  birth, 
thinks  it  cannot  discern  in  the  new  order  of 
things  the  stepping  stones  to  power  ?  But 
is  it  our  fault  that  the  doctrines  and  the  acts 
of  that  party  are  not  in  accor^lance  with  the 
feelings  of  the  country,  and  that  the  country 
persists  in  discountenancing  them  ?  The  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  would  hope  more  for 
his  party  in  a  Confederation  of  the  two 
Canadas  only ;  he  ha'^;  said  to  himself,  no  doubt, 
"  In  this  last  order  of  things  the  increase 
of  the  Upper  Canadian  representation  would 
augment  the  Radical  majority  of  Upper 
Canada,  and  that  majority,  added  to  the 
small  minority  I  command,  would  have 
placed  me  in  a  position  to  rule  Lower  Canada 
as  I  have  already  done,  against  its  will,  and 
in  spite  of  my  former  declarations."  Either 
he  must  think  us  very  blind,  or  else  he 
must  expect  that  placing  the  question  in 
a  party  point  of  view,  he  would  rally  around 
him  only  those  who,  leaving  aside  all  na- 
tional sentiments,  follow  him  nevertheless. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  the  extract  which  I 
have  just  now  read  brings  us  naturally  to 
the  question  of  an  elective  Legislative  (;Ouu- 
cil,  to  which  system  the  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  grants  a  great  degree  of 
superiority  over  the  nominative  one.  Jusi 
now  he  told  us  that  the  Council  nominated 
by  the  Crown  had  fallen  into  imbecility, 
and  had  lost  public  respect.  (Hear,  hear.j 
Now,  to  prove  how  logical  he  is,  he  tells  us : 

It  is  true  that  the  House  of  Lords,  Conser- 
vative though  it  be,  finds  itself  removed  from 
all  popular  iufluence ;  but  its  numbers  may  be 
increased  upon  the  recommendation  of  the  respon- 
sible advisers  of  the  Crown,  if  such  a  measure 
were  to  become  necessary  to  obtain  the  concur- 
rence of  both  Houses,  or  to  prevent  a  collision 
between  them.  The  position  which  its  members 
occupy  in  it  estaolishes  a  sort  of  compromise 
between  the  Crown  and  the  popular  element. 
But  this  new  House,  after  Confederation,  will  be 
a  perfectly  independent  body ;  its  members  will 
be  nominated  lor  life,  and  their  number  cannot  be 
increased.      How   long   will   this   system  work 


without  bringing  about  a  collision  between  the 
two  branches  of  the  Legislature  ?  Let  us  suppose 
the  Lower  House  composed  in  a  great  part  of 
Liberals,  for  how  long  a  time  would  it  submit  to 
an  Upper  House  named  by  Government  ? 

Be  kind  enough  to  observe,  Mr.  Speaker, 
that  under  the  old  system,  the  Legislative 
Council  possessed  the  same  elements  of 
existence  as  the  House  of  Lords,  and  that 
the  Crown  could  increase  its  numbers  at 
need  ;  it  augmented  it  in  18  19,  ;)S  it  threat- 
ened to  augment  the  House  of  Lords  in 
1882.  Observe,  again,  that  it  is  precisely 
this  control  exercised  by  the  Crov/n  over 
the  Upper  House  that  the  hon.  gentleman 
iound  so  fatal  to  legislation  previous  to  1856. 
But  there  is  a  more  rational  manner  of 
appreciating  the  part  sustained  by  the  House 
(if  Lords  in  the  British  Constitution.  No 
one  denies  to  the  Sovereign  the  abstract 
right  of  increasing  at  will  the  House  of 
Lords ;  but  such  right  has  never  been  exer- 
cis'd  but  for  the  purpose  of  rewarding  men 
distinguished  ibr  great  national  services  i 
and  when,  in  1832,  William  IV.  granted 
Earl  Grey  the  tremendous  power  to  sw.imp 
the  representative  body  of  the  great  landed 
nobility,  it  was  because  the  country  was 
moving  with  rapid  strides  towards  revolu- 
tion, and  because  tliere  remained  to  the 
Sovereign  but  two  alternatives,  either  to 
lessen  the  moral  weight  of  the  House  of 
Lords,  or  to  see  his  own  throne  knocked  to 
pieces  from  under  his  feet.  (Hea)',  hear.) 
To  convince  the  House  that  I  do  not  exag- 
gerate,!  will  read  an  extract  from  Lingard's 
History  of  England  : — 

It  is  known  that  justice  and  common  sense 
were  wounded  by  the  electoral  system  of  England, 
when  such  a  rock,  such  a  building,  such  a  hamlet 
belonging  to  noble  families  sent  representatives 
to  Parliament,  where  cities  of  100,000  inhabi- 
tants were  not  represented,  where  cor])orations 
of  twenty  or  thirty  individuals  had  a  right  to  elect 
members  for  large  cities,  and  so  forth.  All  this 
was  the  consequence  of  a  social  order,  founded 
on  privilege,  and  in  which  pi'operty  was  the  mis- 
tress of  all  power.  To  reform  the  electoral 
system  was  then  to  make  an  attempt  not  only  on 
the  Constitution,  but  society.  And  the  Tories 
offered  a  desperate  resistance.  Such  -was  their 
attitude,  that  the  Ministry  proclaimed  Parliament 
dissolved  on  the  11th  May,  1831,  a  cour.ie  which 
was  joyfully  welcomed  by  the  people.  New  elec- 
tions were  had,  and  resulted  in  a  ministerial 
majority.  The  Reform  Bill  was  adopted  by  the 
Commons,  but  the  House  of  Lords  throw  it  out 
by  a  majority  of  forty-one  votes.  The  intel- 
ligence of  this  result  was  received  throu{';hout  the 
three  kingdoms  with  the  most  lively   agitation. 


568 


Petitions  were  sent  in  from  all  parts, praying  for  the 
upholding  of  the  Ministry,  and  for  a  new  creation 
<ji  peers ;  reform  associaiions  were  formed,  and 
serious  disturbances  took  place  at  London,  Bris- 
tol, Nottingh  t  &c.  Parliament  was  prorogued, 
and  at  its  re-assembling  the  Refoi  Bill  was 
>gain  presented  with  some  alte  .ions.  The 
Commons  accepted  it;  it  p°.ssed  a  first  and  a  second 
reading  in  the  House  of  Lords,  but  the  third 
reading  was  adjourned,  and  Wellington  and 
seventy-four  peers  protested.  Agitation  became 
almost  universal ;  societies  met,  petitions  took  a 
threatening  character ;  everything  was  tending- 
towards  armed  insurrection.  England  never 
before  presented  such  a  spectacle.  Meantime 
the  Ministry  had  demanded  of  the  king  a  new 
creation  of  peers  to  change  the  majority  of  the 
Upper  Chamber.  It  was  refused, — they  immediate- 
ly resigned  on  the  9th  May,  1832.  The  Duke  of 
Wellingtox  and  his  friends  were  then  called  in 
to  form  a  Minist  y  ;  he  tried  it  several  days  in 
vain.  The  nation  was  astir  ;  whole  ajruies  were 
being  created  ;  riots  broke  out  everywhere  ;  the 
lives  of  the  principal  Tories  were  threatened,  and 
the  House  of  Commons  seemed  disposed  to  sup- 
port a  measure  which  would  have  overturned 
both  the  Government  and  the  aristocracy.  The 
King  called  back  the  Grey  Ministry,  and  the 
Bill  was  presented  to  the  House  of  Lords  for  a 
third  reading,  on  which  the  Tories,  knowing  that 
the  Cabinet  had  decided  to  create  an  unlimited 
number  of  peers,  so  as  to  obtain  a  majority, 
abstained  from  attendinir  the  discussion,  and  the 
Bill  passed  by  106  votes  against  22.  The  Par- 
liament was  immediately  dissolved,  and  new  elec- 
tions took  place  according  to  the  new  electoral 
law,  and  on  the  6th  of  February,  1833,  the  first 
Reformed  Parliament  was  opened. 

It  must  then  have  been  a  real  revolution, 
this  nomination  of  one  hundred  new  peers, 
a  revolution  as  real  as  that  which  menaced 
the  Throne;  and  do  we  not  feel  persuaded 
that  if  one  day  our  Federal  L<'gislative 
Council  were  to  place  itself  obstinately  and 
systematically  in  opposition  to  popular  will, 
matured  and  strengthened  by  ordeals,  it 
would  not  be  swept  away  by  a  revolutionary 
torrent  such  as  threatened  to  sweep  away 
the  House  of  Lords  in  1832  ?  ThisOouncii, 
limited  as  to  numbers,  beciiuse  the  provinces 
insist  on  maintaining  in  it  an  equilibrium 
without  which  they  would  never  have  con- 
sented to  a  union,  this  Council,  sprung  from 
the  people — having  the  same  wanis,  hopes 
and  oven  passions,  would  resist  less  the  pop- 
ular will  in  America,  where  it  is  so  prompt 
and  active,  than  could  the  House  of  Lords 
in  England,  where  the  masses  are  inert  be- 
cause they  have  nor  political  rights  ;  reason 
tells  us  thus  because  they  would  be  a 
less  powerful  body  socially  or  politically. 
The  honorable  member  for  Hochehga  has 


spoken  to  us  ot  the  elected  senate  of  Bel- 
gium, which  he  says  works  admirably.  IJut 
let  us  examine  the  manner  of  its  construc- 
tion and  the  reasons  of  its  organization.  We 
find  in  a  note  under  the  53rd  article  of  the 
Belgian  Constitution, section  2  of  the  Senate 
in  'Havard's  Public  and  Ailministrative 
Law,  vol.  I  : — 

89.  Elected  b;/  the  People. — Three  principal 
opinions  divided  the  Congress  ou  the  question  of 
the  senate.  One  wanted  no  kind  of  senate. 
Another  wished  the  senate  named  with  or  with- 
OHt  conditions,  by  the  head  of  the  state ;  and 
another  -wished  for  the  senate  but  elected  by  the 
people.  These  two  last  opinions  carried  the  exis- 
leuce  of  the  Chamber  to  be  admitted,  but  it  was 
difficult  to  fix  the  majority  on  the  mode  of  nomi- 
nating the  senators.  Among  the  members  who 
desire  a  senate,  the  greater  number  sustained 
nomination  by  the  king,  as  being  more  in  harmony 
with  the  nature  of  the  institution  ;  but  those  who 
wished  only  one  Chamber  directly  elected  being 
in  despair,  and  iu  order  to  popularize  un  institu- 
tion which  they  accused  of  not  being  suiiiciently 
so,  joined  with  those  favoring  seuutors  elect, 
named  without  the  intervention  of  the  royal 
power,  so  that  this  opinion  prevailed.  'Jhe 
senate  and  its  mode  of  existence  was  not,  there- 
fore, the  result  either  of  the  same  opinion  or  of 
the  same  majority.  The  central  section  proposed, 
with  a  majority  of  sixteen  against  four,  nomina- 
tion by  the  king  without  presentation  and  iu  un- 
limited number.  The  question  was  discussed  at 
the  sitting  of  the  15th,  IGlh  and  17th  December. 
Nomination  by  the  king  was  rejected  by  96 
against  77.  Two  leading  opinions  still  divided 
the  partisans  of  election.  One  would  confide  it 
to  the  ordinary  electoral  colleges,  and  othei-s  to 
the  Provincial  Council  or  States.  "  We  desire," 
said  M.  Blakoxies  in  proposing  the  last  mode 
of  election  ''a  noutral  power  which  can  resist  the 
dangers  which  might  result  from  the  preponder- 
ance of  the  head  of  the  state  or  from  an  elective 
Chamber.  It  is,  therefore,  necessaiy  that  this 
power  should  emanate  neither  from  the  same 
elements  as  the  elective  Chamber,  nor  from  the 
chief  of  the  state."  To  confide  election  to  a  parti- 
cular class,  was  said  on  the  other  side,  is  to  create 
privileged  electors  with  a  double  vote,  and  to  in- 
troduce into  our  country  all  the  inconveniences 
of  the  division  of  electors  which  has  just  been 
abolished  in  France.  Provincial  Councils  should, 
moreover,  be  administrative  bodies.  The  system 
of  article  53  was  adopted  by  136  voles  against 
40.  The  opinion  whi 'h  was  in  favor  o*'  only 
one  Chamber,  and  consequently  only  one  mode  of 
election,  determined  the  majority. 

Thus  we  find  that  flit;  constitution  of  thi« 
senate  is  a  compromise  similar  1 1  tiiat  of  the 
Federal  Government  of  the  Unitf'd  States. 
Hut  let  us  go  on  a  little  further  :  — 

In  order  to  be  elected  and  to  continue  to  be  a 
senator,  one  qualification,  among   others,  is  to 


569 


pay,  in  Belgium,  at  least  one  thousand  florins  of 
direct  imposts,  patents  included. 

Is  not  tliis  last  provision  of  the  Belgian 
Constitution  a  hundred  times  more  con- 
servative than  all  the  provisions  of  this 
scheme,  which  the  honorable  member  con- 
demns ?  What !  no  one  can  be  a  senator 
in  Belgium  without  paying  S500  direct 
taxes,  over  and  above  indirect  taxes,  muni- 
cipal and  local  impositions  of  all  sorts. 
And  the  honorable  member  for  Hochclaga 
calls  that  a  popular  House  !  "Who  but  men 
powerful  and  rich  in  titles  and  fortune  can 
enter  it  ?     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— What  is  the  quali- 
fication of  the  electors  of  the  Belgian  House 
of  Representatives  ?  Is  it  not  much  higher 
than  elsewhere  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— It  is  the  same 
for  both  Houses.  And  this  is  an  argument 
against  the  honorable  member ;  for  if,  in  a 
country  like  Belgium,  in  which  every  fourth 
person  you  meet  is  a  beggar,  it  has  been 
found  requisite  to  make  the  elective  franchise 
and  the  electoral  qualification  of  the  senators 
so  high,  it  is  a  proof  that  he  has  made  a 
bad  selection  of  examples ;  it  is  a  proof  that 
the  tendencies  of  Bel2;ium  are  conservative. 
Why,  then,  should  we  adopt  another  course 
in  Canada,  where  there  is  not  one  beggar 
in  a  thousand  inhabitants  ? 

Hon.    Mr.   EVANTUREL  — Will    the 
honorable   member  for   Montmorenci   allow 
me    to    interrupt    him    in    his     argument 
Id     relation   to  the   qualifications    and    ap- 
pointment   of    the    legislative    councillors. 
Like  him,  I  am  quite  of  opinion  that  the  con- 
servative element  ought,  of  necessity,  to  be 
the  basis  of  the  Legislative  Council,  to  coun- 
terbalance the  popular  element.     This  princi- 
ple governed  the  constitution  of  the  House  of 
Lords  in  England,  that  of  the  Legislative 
Council  in  Belgium,  and  that  of  every  well- 
organized  representative  government.     It  is 
that  element  of  conservatism  which  I  desire 
to  see  introduced   into  the   Constitution  of 
the  Confederation  now  before  us ;  but  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Montmorency  will  allow 
me  to  remark  that  the  whole  of  his  argument 
applies  only  to  the  antagonism  which  might 
arise  between  the  two  branches  of  the  legisla- 
ture,  in  a  monarchical  government  like  that  of 
Belgium,  which  is  not  based  on  a  Federative 
system  like  that  now  submitted  to  us  by  the 
Government.  But  we  have  not  only  to  avoid 
the  differences    which  might   arise    between 
the  conservative  and  the    popular  elenients; 

73 


we   have   also  to  protect    the  rights  of  the 
several  provinces   which    are    to  form    part 
of   the    proposed    Confederation.      That   is 
the  all  important  question   we   have  to  con- 
sider.    We  have   accorded   the   principle  of 
representation  based  upon  population  in  the 
House  of  Commons  of  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment, and  that  is  without  doubt  a  great  sacri- 
fice ;  but  we  ought  only  to  make  so  important 
a  concession  on  the  condition  that  we  shall 
have  equality  of  representation  in  the  Legisla- 
tive Council,  and  the  right  reserved  to  our- 
selves to  appoint  our  twenty-four  legislative 
councillors,  in  order  that  they  may  be  respon- 
sible to  the  public  opinion  of  the  province  and 
independent   of  the  Federal  Government. — 
Without  this  essential  guarantee  I  affirm  that 
the  rights  of  Lower  Canada  are   in  danger. 
For  my  part  I  am  ready,  on  behalf  of  Lower 
Canada,  to  give  up  her  right  to  elect  directly 
her    twenty-four    legislative    councillors,    al- 
though the  retention  of  the  elective  principle 
might  perhaps  be  the  surest  means  of  pre- 
serving our   institutions;   but   I  am  anxious 
that    the    new    Constitution    now    proposed 
should  give  us  adequate  guarantees  that  the 
'  legislative    councillors   to    be    appointed   for 
life  should,  at  all  events,  be  selected  by  the 
Local   Government  of  Lower  Canada,  which 
would  be  responsible  to  the  people.     These 
not  ill-grounded  sources  of  anxiety  I  should 
like  to  see  removed.     I  would  bespeak  the 
earnest  attention  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency  to  this  point,  which  is  of  the 
very  highest  importance  to  us  Lower  Cana- 
dians ;  and  I  hope  that  he  will  pardon  me  for 
having  interrupted  him,  and  that  he  will  be 
in  a  position  to  give  me  such  an   answer  as 
will   dissipate  the  anxiety  which  I  am  aware 
has  been  evinced  on  this  subject. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— The  honorable 
gentleman  has  not  understood  me  ;  my  object 
has  not  been  to  attack  the  representative  system 
of  Belgium  as  being  too  conservative  ;  on  the 
contrary  I  use  it  as  an  argument  in  my  favor, 
because  the  qualification  there  is  so  high,  that 
hardly  one  in  six  thousand  can  be  found  who 
can  aspire  to  the  post  of  senator.  Parties 
having  been  unable  to  come  to  any  under- 
standing at  the  time  of  the  revolution  of 
1830,  and  neither  the  hereditary  peerage  or  the 
life  peerage  having  been  able  to  prevail,  the 
most  conservative  principle  next  to  these  was 
adopted,  viz.,  that  of  a  large  property  qualifi- 
cation. All  those  who  have  drawn  up  consti- 
tutions, either  theoretical  or  for  practical  pur- 
poses, have  never  omitted  to  provide  counter- 
poises   to    prevent,    on    the  one   hand,  too 


570 


precipitate  and  hasty  legislation,  and  on 
the  other  hand  the  encroachment  of  the 
power  oi'  the  executive.  In  our  Constitu- 
tion it  is  the  duty  of  the  Legislative  Council 
to  exercise  the  conservative  influence,  and  to 
modify  tiie  legislation  too  energetic  and  too 
full  of  outside  effervescence,  which  is  sent  for 
their  consideration  from  the  House  of  Com- 
mons. But  when  public  opinion  gains  vigor 
from  the  obstacles  which  it  encounters,  and 
the  reforms  demanded  are  rational  and  come 
before  them  in  due  course,  there  is  no  danger 
that  the  legislatiou  which  embodies  them  will  be 
obstructed  in  its  progress ;  for  the  people  will 
rise  in  their  majesty  and  in  their  sense  of  jus- 
tice, as  did  the  people  of  England  in  1832, 
and  the  obstacles  they  might  meet  with  on 
their  way  would  be  swept  away  as  by  a  tor- 
rent.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Hox.    Mr.    DORION— That  is   exactly 
where  the  danger  lies. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— That  is  the 
danger  which  assailed  the  House  of  Lords  in 
1832,  but  no  one  would  venture  to  confront  to 
the  last  extremity  a  danger  such  as  this. 
But  the  honorable  member  for  Quebec  tells  us, 
if  I  understand  him  rightly,  that  we  have  not  - 
sufficient  guarantees  ibr  Lower  Canada  in 
the  appointment  of  the  legislative  councillors. 
The  selection  of  legislative  councillors  has 
no  bearing  whatever  on  the  question  we 
are  now  considering,  viz.,  whether  the 
appointment  by  the  Crown  is  or  is  not  pre- 
ferable to  the  elective  principle.  But  in  an- 
swer to  him  I  will  say,  that  the  scheme  be- 
fore us  seems  to  be  quite  clear.  According 
to  this  plan  the  candidates  for  the  Legisla- 
tive Council  will  be  recommended  by  the  bcal 
governments  and  appointed  by  the  General 
Government,  and  it  is  by  this  very  division  of 
powers  that  the  selections  are  sure  to  be  good, 
and  made  in  conformity  with  the  desire  and 
sentiments  of  the  provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Only  the  first  nom- 
inations are  to  be  made  in  this  manner,  not 
those  which  may  be  made  afterwards. 

Hon.  31  r.  CAUCHON— The  first  nomin- 
ations will  be  made  by  the  present  Govern- 
ments, and  the  federal  councillors  will  be 
taken  from  the  present  legislative  councillors 
to  the  number  prescribed,  24,  provided  so 
many  can  be  found  who  will  accept  the  post, 
and  who  possess  the  requisite  property  quali- 
fication. The  Conference  has  engixged,  by 
the  terms  of  the  scheme,  to  respect  the  rights 
of  the  Opposition,  and  any  government  who 
should  fail  to  carry  out  so  solemn  an  en- 
gagement would  well  deserve  to  lose  tho  pub- 


lic confidence.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  repeat  that 
the  mode  of  appointing  the  councillors  in  no 
wise  affects  the  conservative  principle  of 
nomination  on  which  the  constitution  of  the 
Leirislative  Council  ought  to  be  based. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— In  the  course  of  my 
observations    the    other    night,    I    did    not 
examine    the   question    from    the    point    of 
view    from    which    the    honorable    member 
fiom  Quebec    is    now    looking  at  it.      That 
honorable    member,    if    I    have   understood 
him  rightly,  affirms  that  in  the   proposed  con- 
stitution of  the   Federal   Legislative   Council 
there  is  no  conservative  principle  to  guaran- 
tee that  the  provinces  will  be  represented  in 
that  Council,  and  ho  does  so  with  justice.    If 
the  honorable  member  for  Montmorenci  will 
examine  it  attentively,  he  will  see  that  the  first 
nominations  are  to  be  made  by  the  existing 
governments.      Thus  the  Government  of  Ca- 
nada, that   of  New  Brunswick  and  that   of 
Nova  Scotia  will  appoint  legislative  council- 
lors, but  afterwards  the  Federal  Government 
will  make  the  appointments.     The  honorable 
member  for  Quebec  can,  with  reason,  draw 
the  conclusion  that  there  is  no  guarantee  that 
the  views  of  the  provinces  will  be  respected. 
I  for  my  part  have  investigated  the  matter, 
more  in  connection  with  the  power  that   will 
be  vested   in  the    legislative  councillors.      I . 
asserted  that  by  appointing  them  for  life  and 
limiting  their  number,  an  absolute  authority 
would  be  created,  which  would  be  quite  be- 
yond the  control  of  the  people  and  even  of  the 
Executive;  that  the  powerof  this  body  will  be 
so  great,  that  they  will  always  be  in  a  position 
to  prevent  every  reform  if  they  thought  pro- 
per, and   that   a    collision    between   the  two 
branches  would  be  inevitable  and  irremediable. 
The  danger  ari.sing  from  the  creating  of  such 
a  power  is  exactly  that  of  being  obliged  to  des- 
troy it  if  they  resist  too  obstinately  the  popu- 
lar demands.     In  England  there  is  no  neces- 
sity for  breaking  down  the  obstructions  some- 
times  presented    by   the    House    of   Lords, 
because  tho  Crown  having  it  in  its  power  to 
appoint  new  peers,  can  overcome  the  difficulty. 
Here  there  will  be  no  means  of  doing  it,  when 
the  number  of  councillors  is  fixed.     Accord- 
ingly, I  have  looked  at  the  question  through 
the  medium  of  the  powers  assigned   to  tho 
councillors,  whereas  the  lionorablo  niombcr  for 
the  county  of  Quebec  fears  lest  the  (ioveru- 
ment  should  make  choice  of  men  who  would 
not  represent  public  opinion  in  the  provinces; 
that  they  might  appoint  member.s  all  of  French 
origin  or  all  of  English  origin  to  represent 
Lower  Canada,  or  take  them  all  from  uiuoug 


571 


a  class  of  men  who  would  not  represent  the 
province  for  which  they  are  appointed,  and 
who  could  give  no  pledge  that  they  would 
maintain  its  institutions. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  is  evi- 
dent that  the  honorable  member  for  Hoche- 
laga  has  not  read  the  resolutions  ;  but  I  have 
read  them.     Lower  Canada   is  in    a  peculiar 
position.     We  have  two  races  of  people  whose 
interests    are    distinct    from   each   other   in 
respect  to  origin,  language  and  religion.     In 
"preparing  the  business  of  the  Confederation  at 
Quebec,  we  had  to  conciliate  these  two  inter- 
ests, and  to  give  the  country  a  Constitution 
which  might  reconcile  the  conservative  with 
the  democratic  element ;  for  the  weak  point  in 
democratic  institutions  is  the  leaving  of  all 
power  in  the  hands  of  the  popular  element. 
The  history  of  the  past  proves  that  this  is  an 
evil.     In  order  that  institutions  may  be  stable 
and  work  harmoniously,  there  must  be  a  power 
of  resist  mce  to  oppose  to  the  democratic  ele- 
ment.    In  the  United  States   the  power  of 
resistance  does  not  reside  in  the  Senate,  nor 
even  in  the  President.     The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Hochelaga  says  that  the  objection  of 
the   honorable    member    for    the   county   of 
Quebec  is  well  founded,  because  the  Federal 
Government  may   appoint  all  English  or  all 
French-Canadians  as  legislative  councillors  for 
Lower  Canada.     If  the  honorable  member  had 
read  the  resolutions,  he  would  have  found  that 
the  appointments  of  legislative  councillors  are 
to  be  made  so  as  to  accord  with  the   electoral 
divisions  now  existing  in  the  province.     Well, 
I. ask  whether  it  is  probable  that  the  Executive 
of  the  Federal  Government,  which  will  have  a 
chief  or  leader  as  it  is  now — I  ask  whether  it 
is  very  probable  thai:  he  will  recommend  the 
appointment  of  a  French-Canadian  to  repre- 
sent divisions  like  Bedford  or  Wellington  for 
instance  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— You  will  be 
in  a  minority  in  the  Federal  Government. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Am  I  not 
in  aminority  at  present  in  appointing  judges  ? 
And  yet  when  I  propose  the  appointment  of  a 
judge  for  Lower  Canada,  is  he  not  appointed  ? 
Did  the  honorable  member  for  Cornwall 
(Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald),  when  he  was  in 
the  Government,  ever  attempt  to  interfere 
with  the  appointments  recommended  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  ?  And  now, 
when  a  chief  justice  or  a  puisne  judge  is  to  be 
appointed  for  Lower  Canada,  I  find  myself 
surrounded  by  colleagues,  a  majority  of  whom 
are  English  and  Protestants;  but  do  they  pre- 
sume to  interfere  with  my  recommendations  ? 
No,  no  more  than  we  Lower  Canadians  inter- 


fere with  the  recommendations  of  my  honor- 
able friend  the  Attorney  General  for  Upper 
Canada  in  making,  appointments  to  ofBce  in 
Upper  Canada.  There  will  be  in  the  Federal 
Government  a  leader  for  Lower  Canada,  and 
do  you  think  that  the  other  Ministers  will 
presume  to  interfere  and  intermeddle  with  his 
recommendations?  But  I  am  told  that  I  am 
in  a  minority.  So  I  am  now,  so  I  have  been 
,for  eight  years — 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— You  have  equality 
between  the  two  provinces. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Yes,  we 
have  equality,  but  not  as  a  race,  nor  in  respect 
of  religion.  When  the  leader  for  Lower  Can- 
ada shall  have  sixty-five  members  belonging 
to  his  section  to  support  him,  and  command 
a  majority  of  the  French-Canadians  and  of  the 
British  from  Lower  Canada,  will  he  not  be 
able  to  upset  the  Government  if  his  colleagues 
interfere  with  his  recommendations  to  ofiice  ? 
That  is  our  security.  At  present,  if  I  found 
unreasonable  opposition  to  my  views,  my 
remedy  would  be  to  break  up  the  Government 
by  retiring,  and  the  same  thing  will  happen  in 
the  Federal  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  honorable  mem- 
ber will  be  allowed  to  retire  from  the  Govern- 
ment; as  there  will  then  be  a  sufficient 
number  of  English  members  to  be  able  to  do 
without  him,  he  will  be  allowed  to  retire,  and 
nobody  will  care. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  put  a  question  to  me 
relative  to  the  constitution  of  the  Legislative 
Council,  and  said  that  he  had  not  looked  at 
the  question,  while  speaking  the  other  even- 
ing, in  the  same  light  as  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  the  county  of  Quebec.  He  spoke  of 
the  conservatives  as  a  party,  and  his  fear  was, 
not  that  the  Upper  House  would  not  be  con- 
servative enough,  but  that  it  would  be  too 
much  so. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  looked  at  it  both 
ways,  both  as  it  involved  the  interests  of  par- 
ties, and  in  regard  to  the  power  which  that 
House  would  exercise  from  the  nature  of  its 
constitution. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— I  did  not  see  the 
two  ways  of  looking  at  it.  I  saw  but  one.  It 
is  the  same  idea  in  a  different  form.  He  said 
that  even  if  the  Lower  House  were  altogether 
liberal,  the  Ui  per  House  would  remain  com- 
posed of  conservatives ;  this  was  his  fear.  He 
has  been  a  long  while  trying  to  ga:n  predomi- 
nance for  his  democratic  notions,  but  it  is  evi- 
dent he  will  not  succeed.  I  recur  to  the  real 
medium  through  which  the  honorable  mem- 
ber looks  at  the  question,  namely,  his  fears 


572 


that  his  party  will  sink  out  of  sight.  In  the 
present  day,  parties  disappear  and  become 
fused  with  others,  while  others  arise  from 
passing  events.  In  New  Brunswick,  conser- 
vatives join  the  liberal  government  to  carry 
Confederation,  and  we  see  no  parties  there 
but  the  partisans  and  the  opponents  of  the 
union,  as  in  1788,  in  the  United  States,  there 
were  no  parties  but  the  adherents  of  royalty 
and  those  of  Federal  Government.  We  sec 
the  same  thing  in  Nova  Scotia.  This  is  true 
patriotism  and  the  real  dignity  of  public  men. 
It  is  unfortunate  for  us  that  we  do  not  follow 
their  example  here. 

Mr.  GEOFFIIION-Hear ! 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— The  honorable 
member  from  Verchdres  says  "'  Hear  !  "  Is 
it  not  a  fact  that  the  Opposition  vote  as  a 
party  on  the  present  question  ?  If  it  is  not 
so,  will  he  name  a  single  member  of  the  Op- 
position who  does  not  vote  against  Confeder- 
ation ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Hear !  hear ! 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— The  honorable 
member  for  Cornwall  says  ''Hear!  hear!" 
He  may  well  say  so — he  who  never  had  a 
party.  He  came  into  power,  nobody  expect- 
ed he  would.  He  will  never  get  it  again, 
everybody  expects  that.  (Continued  laughter.) 
I  am  bound  to  shew  him  respect  because  he 
is  my  senior  in  this  House,  my  senior  by  three 
years.  It  is  true  he  has  not  always  repre- 
sented the  same  county,  his  brother  having 
fraternally  driven  him  out  of  Glengarry,  and 
obliged  him  to  take  refuge  in  the  rotten 
borough  of  Cornwall.  (Laughter.)  But  al- 
though we  have  almost  always  been  unlucky 
enough  to  do  duty  in  different  camps,  we  have 
not  on  that  account  ceased  to  be  good  friends. 
(Laughter.)  I  will  not  look  at  this  question 
''"  in  a  party  light,  because  parties  expire,  and 
we  do  not  know  whether  in  thirty  years  the 
present  parties  will  exist.  We  ought  to  look 
at  the  question  apart  from  party  considera- 
tions, and  on  its  own  merits  :  that  is  to  say,  we 
ought  to  place  in  the  Constitution  a  counter- 
poise to  prevent  any  party  legislation,  and  to 
moderate  tlie  precipitancy  of  any  government 
which  might  be  disposed  to  move  too  fast 
and  go  too  far, — I  mean  a  legislative  body 
able  to  protect  the  people  against  itself  and 
against  the  eucroachuieuts  of  power.  (Hear, 
hear.)  In  England,  the  Crown  has  never 
attempted  to  degrade  the  ILtuse  of  Peers  by 
submerging  it,  because  it  knows  well  that  the 
nobility  are  a  bulwark  against  the  aggressions 
of  the  democratic  element.  The  House  of 
/  XiOrds,  by  their  power,  their  territorial  posscu- 


sions,  and  their  enormous  wealth,  are  a  great 
defence  against  democratic  invasion,  greater 
than  anything  we  can  oppose  to  it  in  America. 
In  Canada,  as  in  the  rest  of  North  America, 
we  have  not  the  castes — classes  of  society — 
which  are  found  in  Europe,  and  the  Federal 
Legislative  Council,  although  immutable  in 
respect  of  number,  inasmuch  as  all  the  mem- 
bers belonging  to  it  will  come  from  the  ranks 
of  the  people,  without  leaving  them,  as  do  the 
members  of  the  House  of  Commons,  will  not 
be  selected  from  a  privileged  class  which  have 
no  existence.  Here  all  men  are  alike,  and 
are  all  equal ;  if  a  difference  is  to  be  found,  it 
arises  exclusively  from  the  industry,  the  in- 
telligence, and  the  superior  education  of  those 
who  have  labored  the  most  strenuously,  or 
whom  Providence  has  gifted  with  the  hisrhest 
faculties.  (Hear,  hear.)  Long  ago  the  pri- 
vileges of  ca^te  disappeared  in  this  countr}'. 
Most  of  our  ancient  nobility  left  the  country 
at  the  conquest,  and  the  greater  number  of 
those  who  remained  have  sunk  out  of  sight 
by  inaction.  Accordingly,  whom  do  we  sec 
in  the  highest  offices  of  state  ?  The  sons  of 
the  poor  who  have  felt  the  necessity  of  study, 
and  who  have  risen  by  the  aid  of  their  intel- 
lect and  hard  work.  (Hear,  hear.)  Every- 
thing is  democratic  with  us,  because  everyone 
can  attain  to  everything  by  the  efforts  of  a 
noble  ambition.  The  legislative  councillors 
appointed  by  the  Crown  will  not  be,  there- 
fore, socially  speaking,  persons  superior  to  the 
members  of  the  House  of  Commons ;  they 
will  owe  their  elevation  only  to  their  own 
merit.  They  will  live  as  being  of  the  people 
and  among  the  people  as  we  do.  How  can 
it  happen,  then,  that  having  no  advan- 
tage over  us  greater  than  that  of  not 
being  elected,  they  will  not  be  subject  in  a 
legitimate  degree  to  the  influence  of  public 
opinion  ?  There  are  some  men  who  have 
enough  patriotism  to  approve  of  everything 
done  elsewhere,  but  to  tind  fault  with  every- 
thing done  at  home — it  is  a  pitiful  crotchet 
in  the  human  mind.  If  there  had  been  as 
much  danger  for  the  liberal  party  in  this 
union  as  you  say  there  was,  would  Hon.  Mr. 
Tll.Llcy,  the  leader  of  the  Liberal  government 
of  Now  Brunswick,  a  man  of  such  foresight  and 
judgment  ;  wtuild  the  honorable  member  for 
South  Oxford,  your  former  leader,  whose  talent 
and  experience  you  will  not  deny,  have  ac- 
cepted it  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  But  look  rather 
at  what  is  now  passing  in  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  Scotia ;  what  thoy  have  agreed  to 
designate  as  the  Federal  electoral  ticket  is 
composed  of  six  candidates  for  the  towa  and 


573 


county  of  St.  Johns,  N.B. ;  and  in  Nova  Scotia, 
Hon.  Mr.  Tupper,  the  leader  of  a  Conser- 
vative government,  and  Messrs.  Archibald 
and  McCuLLEY,  two  of  the  chiefs  of  the 
Liberal  party,  are  working  hand  in  hand  for 
Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  One  must  be 
short-sighted  not  to  see  that  this  new  order 
of  things  will  produce  new  combinations 
similar  to  those  produced  by  the  American 
Constitution  of  1788,  when  the  citizens  and 
public  men  divided  into  two  camps,  the  camp 
of  the  supporters  of  national  union  and  that 
of  the  friends  of  the  state  sovereignty.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Let  us  not  then  be  anxious  about  the 
future  of  parties.  What  does  it  matter  to 
this  country  what  position  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  or  myself  may  occupy 
in  this  new  Constitution  ?  (Laughter.)  What 
matters  it  to  the  country  if  we  be  above  or 
below,  the  first  or  the  last,  the  victors  or  the 
vanquished,  so  long  as  it  is  happy  under  the 
new  rule,  and  finds  happiness,  greatness,  power 
and  prosperity  in  the  free  development  of  its 
resources  and  institutions?  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  opponents  of  Confederation  do  not  desire 
the  union  of  the  provinces  for  the  purpose  of 
military  defence;  two  and  two  will  always 
make  four,  say  they,  and  in  uniting  the  popu- 
lations of  the  different  provinces,  you  will  not 
give  us  more  strength  to  resist  the  common 
enemy,  unless,  as  facetiously  remarked  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbini^re,  we  make  a 
treaty  with  the  enemy,  which  would  bind  him 
to  attack  us  at  but  one  place  at  a  time,  so  as 
to  allow  us  to  oppose  all  our  forces  tu  the 
invasion.  Yes,  two  and  two  will  always 
make  four.  You  are  right.  War  between 
England  and  the  United  States  would  expose 
us  in  our  colonial  position  to  the  attacks  of  the 
enemy  at  all  vulnerable  points  of  the  re- 
spective provinces.  But,  firstly,  the  union 
carries  with  it  the  construction  of  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  and  that  railway  which  does 
not  particularly  please  the  two  annexationist 
leaders  of  the  Opposition,  would  allow 
England  and  the  provinces  to  transport  troops 
rapidly  from  the  furthest  limits  of  the  country 
to  the  threatened  points  of  the  national  ter- 
ritory. Without  the  aid  of  railways  how 
could  Napoleon  III.  have  been  able,  in  a 
fortnight,  to  throw  two  hundred  thousand 
men  on  the  plains  of  Italy,  to  defeat  the 
Austrians  at  Magenta  and  Solferino,  and  to 
gain  one  of  the  bloodiest  and  most  glorious 
victories  of  modern  times?  But  in  the  ad- 
vanced condition  of  our  civilization,  our  com- 
merce and  our  manufactures — with  so  many 
elements  of  greatnesj?,  with  so  many  prodi- 


gious sources  of  prosperity  and  wealth — with 
a  population  of  nearly  four  millions  already 
— should  we  have  so  little  ambition  as  not  to 
aspire  to  take  our  place  one  day  in  the 
rank  of  nations  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Shall 
we  forever  remain  colonists  ?  Does  the 
history  of  the  world  afford  examples  of 
eternal  subjection  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is 
not,  for  my  part,  because  I  do  not  feel 
myself  proud  and  happy  under  the  glorious 
flag  which  protects  and  shelters  in  safety  one 
hundred  and  fifty  millions  of  souls.  It  is  not 
because  I  do  not  feel  myself  free  as  the  bird 
of  air  in  the  midst  of  space,  under  the  mighty 
segis  of  the  British  Empire — a  thousand  times 
more  free  than  I  should  be,  with  the  name  of 
citizen,  in  the  grasp  of  the  American  Eagle. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  But  we  must  not 
conceal  from  ourselves  the  fact  that  we  are 
attracted  by  two  centres  of  attraction — the 
opposing  ideas  which  are  developed  and  which 
make  war  upon  each  other,  even  within  these 
walls,  sufficiently  attest  the  fact.  Everything 
tells  us  that  the  day  of  national  emancipation 
or  of  annexation  to  the  United  States  is  ap- 
proaching, and  while  the  statesmen  of  all  par- 
ties in  the  Empire  warn  us  affectionately  to 
prepare  for  the  first,  a  few  of  our  own  public 
men  drive  us  incessantly  towards  the  second, 
by  propagating  republican  ideas,  and  by  en- 
deavoring by  all  possible  means  to  assimilate 
our  institutions  to  those  of  the  neighboring- 
republic.  (Hear,  hear.)  If  we  remain  iso- 
lated, what  will  happen  at  the  moment  of 
separation  from  the  Mother  Country ;  for 
that  moment  will  come,  whether  we  wish 
it  or  wish  it  not?  Each  province  would 
form  an  independent  state,  and  as  to  at- 
tack the  one  would  no  longer  mean  to  at- 
tack all,  inasmuch  as  we  should  have  ceased 
to  be  the  subjects  of  the  same  empire, 
the  United  States,  if  they  covet  them,  would 
devour  them  one  by  one  in  their  isolated  po- 
sition, following  therein  the  able  tactics  of  the 
Romans  in  Asia,  Europe  and  Africa,  of  the 
English  in  India,  and  of  Napoleon,  the 
greatest  warrior  of  modern  times,  in  Europe. 
I  understand  that  the  annexationists  insist  on 
the  status  qiio  and  on  isolation ;  but  others 
would  be  blind  did  they  listen  to  them,  inas- 
much as  reason  commands  them  to  organize, 
so  as  to  be  ready  when  danger  comes.  If  we 
are  four  millions  to-day,  we  shall  probably  be 
eight  millions  and  over  then, with  proportionate 
means  of  defence,  and  the  alliances  which  we 
would  find  in  the  necessity  on  the  part  of  the 
European  powers  to  keep  within  bounds  the 
too  extensive  deyelopment  of  that  nation  whic|^ 


574 


is  now  struggling  in  the  horrors  of  civil  wax. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Uonorable  gentlemen  do  not 
desire  Confederation,  because  there  must  be 
an  outlay  for  its  defence.  But  are  those,  who 
argue  thus,  logical  ?  If  two  and  two  did  not 
make  more  than  four  a  moment  ago,  why 
would  they  make  five  now  ?  If  each  province, 
standing  in  an  isolated  position,  would  be 
obliged  to  expend  money  to  organize  the 
defence  of  its  territory,  why  would  the  com- 
bination of  all  these  various  outlays  in 
Confederation  amount  to  more  than  the  total 
of  these  same  expenses  otherwise  added  up  ? 
Would  this  be  the  case  because  a  single 
organization  ought  to  be,  necessarily,  less  ex- 
pensive than  bix  distinct  commands  ?  The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  has  exag- 
gerated the  expenses  of  the  Confederation,  as 
he  has  everything  else ;  as  he  exaggerated 
and  perverted,  the  other  day,  the  words  of  the 
Hon.  President  of  the  Council. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— And  besides  this,  the 
Maritime  Provinces  have  to  be  paid  to  come 
into  the  Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— That  question 
will  naturally  come  up  in  its  turn.  But  it  is 
not  the  less  true  that  all  the  provinces  come 
into  the  Confederation  on  an  equal  footing,  as 
their  debt  is  placed  in  equilibrium  ;  and  as, 
for  the  purposes  of  the  union,  the  arrangement 
is  strictly  based  on  the  total  population  of 
each  of  them.  On  a  previous  occasion,  as  I 
have  elsewhere  quoted,  the  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  stated  that  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces did  not  choose  our  alliance,  because  our 
debt  was  too  great.  Now  he  does  not  choose 
their  alliance,  because  he  is  afraid  we  shall 
have  to  pay  for  them.  Now  that  the  debt  is 
perfectly  equal,  in  proportion  to  the  total 
population,  and  the  Conference  has  so  equal- 
ized it  in  order  to  found  Confederation  on 
justice,  the  Atlantic  Provinces  consent  to  the 
union. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— What  provinces 
are  those  ? 

Hon.  Mn.  CAUCHON— I  allude  to  New 
Brunswick  and  Newfoundland,  and  I  am 
convinced  that  the  decision  of  those  two 
provinces  will  sufficiently  influence  Nova 
tjcotia  to  cause  her  to  resolve  to  come  into 
the  Confederation.  The  Nova  Scotian  news- 
papers, even  those  of  them  which  arc  most 
hostile  to  the  scheme,  ackuowlodge  that  that 
province  cannot  remain  isolated  ;  and  accord- 
ingly sh?  awaits  the  result  of  the  elections 
in  New  Brunswick  belbrc  taking  action.  In 
the  meantime  the  journals  iu  (juostion  are 
making  incredible  exertions  to  prevail  upon 


New  Brunswick  to  refuse  the  great  Confe- 
deration, because  they  wish  for  another  and 
a  smaller   one,  that  of  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces alone.     Another  motive  which  will 
induce  Nova  Scotia  to  accept  the  scheme  of 
the  Quebec  Conference,  if  New  Brunswick 
should  declare  herself  in  favor  of  it,  is  that 
the  terminus  of  the   Intercolonial   Railway 
would  be  fixed  at  St.  John  instead  of  at 
Halifax ;  and  what  would  become  of  Nova 
Scotia  so  isolated  ?     She  would  not  consent 
to  it ;  her  writers  and  her  statesmen  positively 
assert  it.     For  our  part,  we  require  an  out- 
let upon  the  Atlantic  seaboard,  and  that  we 
can  only  have  by  means  of  Confederation. 
(Hear,  hear.)     To  those  who  cherish  difiFer- 
ent  ideas,  I  can  conceive  that  this  matter  is 
not  one  of  equal  importance,  for  they  wish 
to  fix  their  terminus  at  another  point  on  the 
Atlantic    seaboard.     (Hear,   hear.)     I  feel 
that  I  have  already  spoken  at  length,  and  I 
have    yet    some   important    points    of    the 
scheme  to  examine.     I  will  not,  then,  enter 
into   calculations   of  figures   to   prove    the 
extravagance  and  absurdity  of  those  of  the 
hon.    member    for    Hochelaga,   preferring, 
moreover,  to  leave  them  in  the  more  skilful 
and  powerful  hands  of  the  Hon.  Minister  of 
Finance.     I  shall  content  myself  with  telling 
the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga — and  that 
will  suffice  for  myself  as  well  as   for   the 
House  and  the  couutry — that  I  prefer  Con- 
federation with  its   prospects  of  expense,  to 
annexation  to    the   United  States  with  an 
actual  debt  of  close  upon  three   thousand 
millions,  and  with  an  annual  tax  of  five  hun- 
dred millions  of  dollars.   The  34th  paragraph 
of  the   29  th    clause   of  the   scheme   reads 
thus :    "  The   establishment   of  a   General 
Court  of  Appeal    for    the   Federated    Pro- 
vinces."    What  is  the  object — what  will  be 
the  character  of  the  tribunal  ?     These  two 
questions  will  naturally  present  themselves 
to  those  who    have  given  auy  atteotiou  to 
that  part  of  the  scheme  which  refers  to  the 
civil  and  criminal  law,  and  the  w«irking  of 
the  judiciary.       The  whole  of   the  clauses 
which  refer  to  the  .latter  are  as  complete  as 
the  most  ardent  supporters  of  union  could 
desire,  tempered  by  the  low  exceptions  by 
means  of  which  the  provinces  have  wi.'^hed 
to    shelter    their    local     institutions    from 
attack.     (Cheers.)     To  convince  the  House 
of  this,  I  need  but  read  the  following  : — 

^1.  The  General   Pariiamunt  may  also,  from 

time  to  time,  establish  additional  courts,  and  the 

I  General   Govornmcnt    m;ij   appoint  judges   and 

oUicers   tharcof,    when   the   same   sbull    appear 


575 


necessary  or  for  the  public  advantage,  in  order 
to  the  due  execution  of  the  laws  of  Parliament. 

32.  All  courts,  judges  and  officers  of  the 
several  provinces  shall  aid,  assist  and  obey  the 
General  Government  in  the  exercise  of  its  rights 
and  powers,  and  for  such  purposes  shall  be  held 
to  be  courts,  judges  and  officers  of  the  General 
Government. 

33.  The  General  Government  shall  appoint 
and  pay  the  judges  of  the  Superior  Courts  in 
each  province,  and  of  the  County  Courts  in  Upper 
Canada,  and  Parliament  shall  fix  their  salaries. 

35.  The  judges  of  the  comts  of  Lower  Canada 
shall  be  selected  from  the  Bar  of  Lower  Canada. 

37.  The  judges  of  the  Superior  Courts  shall 
hold  their  offices  during  good  behaviour,  and  shall 
be  removable  only  on  the  address  of  both  Houses 
of  Parliament. 

45.  In  regard  to  all  subjects  over  which  juris- 
diction belongs  to  both  the  General  and  Local 
Legislatures,  the  laws  of  the  General  Parliament 
shall  control  and  supersede  those  made  by  the 
local  legislature,  and  the  latter  shall  be  void  so 
far  as  they  are  repugnant  to,  or  inconsistent  with 
the  former. 

38.  For  each  of  the  provinces  there  shall  be 
an  executive  officer,  styled  the  lieutenant-gover- 
nor, who  shall  be  appointed  by  the  Governor 
General  in  Council,  under  the  great  seal  of  the 
Federated  Provinces,  during  pleasure  :  such  plea- 
sure not  to  be  exercised  before  the  expiration  of 
the  first  five  years,  except  for  cause :  such  cause 
to  be  communicated  in  writing  to  the  Lieutenant- 
Governor  immediately  after  the  exercise  of  the 
pleasure  as  aforesaid,  and  also  by  message  to  both 
Houses  of  Parliament,  within  the  first  week  of  the 
first  session  afterwards. 

39.  The  lieutenant-governor  of  each  province 
shall  be  paid  by  the  General  Government. 

50.  Any  bill  of  the  General  Parliament  may 
be  reserved  in  the  usual  manner  for  Her  Majesty's 
assent,  and  any  bill  of  the  local  legislatures  may, 
in  like  manner,  be  reserved  for  the  consideration 
of  the  Governor  General. 

5L  Any  bill  passed  by  the  General  Parliament 
shall  be  subject  to  disallowance  by  Her  Majesty 
within  two  years,  as  in  the  case  of  bills  passed  by 
the  legislatures  of  the  said  provinces  hith«rto, 
and,  in  like  manner,  any  bill  passed  by  a  local 
legislature  shall  be  subject  to  disallowance  by  the 
Governor  General  within  one  year  after  the  pass- 
ing thereof. 

The  evident  object  of  this  organization  is 
to  reassure  the  Protestant  minority  of  Lower 
Canada  against  any  apprehension  for  the 
future ;  it  is  also  perhaps  in  the  interest  of 
national  unity,  to  prevent  local  parliaments 
and  governments  from  infringing  the  attri- 
butes of  the  Central  Parliament.  The 
nomination  of  judges,  the  veto,  the  reserva- 
tion and  even  certain  directions  to  be  found 
in  the  project  itself,  tend  to  the  same  end, 
and  must  neoessarily  attain  it.  I  see  nothing 


wrong  in  that,  provided  that  this  formidable 
engine  in  going  out  of  its   course  does   not 
crush  the  rights  which  we  are  bound  to  res- 
pect and  maintain  forever  in  their  integrity. 
(Hear,  hear.)   I  am  not  of  the  same  opinion 
as  the  hon.  member  for  Brome,  who  pretends 
to  see  in  those  clauses  that  the  judges  would 
be  under  two  masters  at  the  same  time.     If 
they  could  possibly  be  controlled  at  all,  it 
would  be  by  the  Federal  Government,  which 
alone  will  appoint  them,  pay  them,  and  have 
the  power   of  dismissing  them   in   certain 
cases.     There  is  no   anomaly  here,  because 
one   thing   follows    another ;  all  are  linked 
together  and  harmonize   perfectly.     If  any- 
thing could  possibly  arise,  it  would  be  danger. 
However,  so  far  as  we  can  see,  there  will  be 
no  danger  in  the  administration  of  justice — 
the  question  of  veto,  and  reserve  with  regard 
to  legislation,  being  a  totally  different  thing, 
and  suggesting  considerations  of  a  different 
nature.     Eut  here  is  the  point  to  which  I 
wish  to  draw  the  attention    of  this  House. 
Among  all  the  things  guaranteed  to  Lower 
Caiiada  in  the  Constitution,  and  in  fact  to 
all  the   provinces,  we  find  their  own  civil 
laws.     Lower  Canada  has  been  so  tenacious 
of  its  civil  code,  that  it  is  laid  down  in  the 
project  before  us  that  the  Federal   Parlia- 
ment shall  not  even  be  able  to  suggest  legis- 
lation by  which  it  may  be  affected,  as  it  will 
have  the  right  to  do  for  the  other  provinces. 
The  reason  is  obvious — the  civil  laws  of  the 
other   provinces    are    nearly    similar;  they 
breathe  the  same  spirit  and  the  same  prin- 
ciples ;  they  spring  from    the  same    source 
and    the    same    ideas.     But    it  is    not    so 
with    regard    to    those    of    Lower    Canada, 
with    their    origin    from     almost    entirely 
Latin  sources ;  and  we  hold  to  them  as  to  a 
sacred  legacy';  we  love  them  because  they 
suit  our  customs,    and  we   find    under  the 
protection  for  our  property  and  our  lamilies. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  Conference  has  under- 
stood and  respected  our  ideas  on  this  point. 
However,  if  a  Court  of  Appeal  should  one  day 
be  placed  over  the  judiciary  tribunals  of  all 
the  provinces,  without   excepting   those   of 
Lower  Canada,  the  result  would  be  that  those 
same  laws  would  be  explained  by  men  who 
would  not  understand  them,  and  who  would, 
involuntarily  perhaps,   graft  English  juris- 
prudence  upon    a    French  code  of  laws. — 
(Hear,  hear.)     Such  was  the  spectacle  pre- 
sented in  Canada  after  the  conquest,  and  no 
one,  I  am  sure,  would  wish  to  see  a  repetition 
of  the  scene.     (Hear,  hear.)     We  have,  it 


576 


is  true,  Her  Majesty's  Privy  Council  as  a  last 
resort,  but  we  owe  it  to  necessity  ;  we  have 
not  asked  for  it  ourselves.  At  any  rate  it  is 
composed  of  chosen  men,  all  or  nearly  all  of 
whom  are  well  versed  in  Roman  law — men 
who,  when  they  have  a  doubt  upon  some 
point,  avail  themselves  of  the  counsels  and 
advice  of  the  most  eminent  jurists  of  France. 
Nor  does  the  proposed  Constitution  speak 
of  doing  away  with  this  tribunal, 
which  will  dominate  by  its  imperial 
character  even  over  the  Court  of  Ap- 
peal which  the  Federal  Government  has 
the  power  of  creating.  Here  the  Conven- 
tion had  national  views;  it  foresaw  evidently 
in  the  future  the  day  of  colonial  emanci- 
pation. Nevertheless,  whatever  the  inten- 
tions of  the  delegates,  their  project  does  not 
define  the  attributes  of  this  Federal  court; 
and  as  there  is  some  apprehension  on  this 
point,  I  would  wish  to  put  the  following 
question  to  the  Government : — If  this  Court 
of  Appeal  be  established,  will  it  be  a  purely 
civil  tribunal,  or  a  constitutional  one  ?  Or 
will  it  be  at  the  same  time  civil  and  con- 
Btitutional  ?  If  it  be  a  civil  tribunal,  will 
it  have  jurisdiction  over  Lower  Canada? 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.    Atty.    Gen.    C ARTIER  — The 
question  put  by  my  hon.  friend  the  member 
for  Montmorency  is  one  which  it  is  not  easy 
for  the  Government  to  answer,  inasmuch  as 
the  power  conferred  by  that  article  is  only 
that  of  creating  a  Court  of  Appeal  at  some 
future  day,  pnd  the  jurisdiction  of  that  court 
will  depend  on  the  causes  which  lead  to  its 
creation.     The  hon.  member  has  very  justly 
remarked  that  it  may  become  necessary  at 
a  future  period  to  constitute  such  a  tribunal. 
At  present  the  several  provinces  which  are 
to  form  part  of  the  Conlederation  have  the 
same  court  cf  final  appeal.     As  loug  a^-  we 
keep  up   our  connection   with   the   Mother 
Country,  we  shall  always  have  our  court  of 
final  appeal  in  Her  Majesty's  Privy  Council. 
But  when  the  British  Provinces  on  this  con- 
tinent are  united  by  the  bond  of  Confeder- 
ation, we  shall  have   one   uniform   system, 
common  to  all,  in  regard  to  imports,  bills  of 
exchange  and   promissory  notes,   as  well  as 
universal  jurisprudence.    Accordingly,  when 
wo  have  lived  some  years  under  the  Federal 
regime,  the  urgent  need  of  such  a  Court  of 
Appeal  with  jurisdiction  ia  such  matters  will 
be  felt,  and,  if  it  is  created,  it  will  be  fit  that 
its  jurisdiction  should  extend  to  civil  causes 
which  mightarise  in  the  several  Confederate 


Provinces,   because   it   will   necessarily   be 
composed  of  the  most  eminent  judges  in  the 
diff'erent  provinces,  of  the  jurists  whose  re- 
putation stands    highest,  of  men,  in  short, 
profoundly  skilled  in   the  jurisprudence  of 
each  of  the  provinces  which  they  will  re- 
spectively represent.     Well,  if  this  court  ia 
called  upon,  for  instance,  to  give  final  judg- 
ment on  a  judgment  rendered   by  a  Lower 
Canada  court,  there  will  be  among  the  judges 
on  the  bench  men  perfectly  versed  in  the 
knowledge  of  the  laws  of  that  section  of  the 
Confederation,  who  will  be  able  to  give  the 
benefit  of  their  lights  to  the  other  judges 
sitting  with  them.     I  must  observe  to  my 
hon.  friend  the  member  for  Montmorency, 
that  he  disparages  the  civil  law  of  Lower 
Canada  in  the  estimate  he  ftiakes  of  it ;  but 
he  need  be    under    no    uneasiness   on   that 
head.     He  should  not  forget  that  if,  at  this 
day,  the  laws  of  Lower  Canada  are  so  re- 
markably well  understood  in  Her  Majesty's 
Privy  Council,  it    is    because  the  code  of 
equity,  which  is  a  subject  of  deep  study  and 
familiar  knowledge  among  the  members  of 
the  council,  is  based  on  Roman  law,  as  our 
own    code    is.      All    the    eminent    judges, 
whether  in   England,  in  the  Maritime  ]-'ro- 
vinces  or  in  Upper  Canada,  are   profoundly 
versed  in  those   principles  of  equity,  which 
are   identical  with  those  of  our  civil  code. 
Now,  as  to  my  own  personal  opinion,  respeci- 
ing  the    creation   of   that  tribunal,  I  think 
that  it  is  important  not  to  establish  it  until 
a  certain  number  of  years  shall  have  elapsed 
from    the    establishment   of    Confederation, 
and  to  make  it   consist    of  judges  from  thi; 
several  provinces ;  for  this  court  would  have 
to  give  final  judijment  in  causes  pronounced 
upon  in  the  courts  of  all  the  sections.     Nei- 
ther can   I  tell  what  functions  and  powers 
might  be  assigned  to  it  by  the  act  establishing 
it.     Time  alone  can   tell  us  that;  but  I  do 
hold,   and   the  spirit  of  the   conference    at 
Quebec  indicated,  that    the    appeal   to  the 
judicial  committtee  of  Ilcr  Majesty'.^  Privy 
Council  must  always  exist,  even  if  the  court 
in  question  is  established. 

Hon.  Mr.  EVANTUKEL— I  acknow- 
ledge the  frankness  which  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  for  Lower  Canada  has  evinced  in 
giving  the  explanations  to  the  House  which 
we  have  just  heard  ;  and  I  trust  that  the 
honorable  minister  will  permit  me  to  ask 
him  one  question.  Paragraph  32  gives  the 
Federal  Government  the  power  of  legislating 
on    criminal    law,  except  that  of   creating 


577 


courts  of  criminal  jurisdiction,  but  including 
rules  of  procedure  in  criminal  eases.  If  I 
am  not  mistaken,  that  paragraph  signifies 
that  the  General  Government  may  establish 
judicial  tribunals  in  the  several  Confederate 
Provinces.  I  should  much  like  to  be  en- 
lightened on  this  head  by  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  for  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  C ARTIER— I  am  very  glad 
that  Ihe  honorable  member  for  the  County 
of  Quebec  has  put  this  question,  which  I 
shall  answer  as  frankly  as  that  of  the  hon. 
member  fo.  3Iontmorency.  31y  hon.  friend 
will  find,  if  he  refers  to  the  paragraph  which 
he  has  cited,  that  it  gives  the  General  Go- 
vernment simply  the  power  of  providing  for 
the  execution  of  the  laws  of  the  Federal 
Government,  not  of  those  of  the  local  govern- 
ments. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— I  have  listened 
to  the  explanations  of  my  hon.  friend  the 
Attorney  General  for  Lower  Canala,  and  I 
find  them  perfectly  satisfactory,  as  they 
regard  criminal  law ;  for  that  is  the  same 
or  nearly  the  same  in  all  the  provinces.  For 
my  own  part,  I  infinitely  prefer  the  criminal 
law  of  England  to  that  of  any  other  country. 
It  affords  more  protection  to  the  party  ac- 
cused, than,  for  instance  the  criminal  code  of 
France  does.  The  civil  laws  of  the  latter,  by 
the  way,  have  my  warm  admiration,  as  have 
also  their  administrative  talent  and  their  apt- 
ness for  civilizing  influences.  ( Hear,  hear.) 
If  the  English  criminal  law  gives  the  criminal 
too  great  a  chance  of  escaping,  it  at  least 
saves  society  the  stigma  of  condemning  the 
innocent.  The  accused  is  tried  for  the  single 
act  for  which  he  is  indicted,  and  is  not 
questioned  concerning  his  whole  past  life 
and  conversation.  The  laws  of  commerce 
are  nearly  the  same  in  all  countries,  and 
those  which  rule  the  trade  of  two  continents 
may  be  said  to  be  founded  on  an  ordinance 
of  a  king  of  France.  Accordingly,  there  will 
be  no  inconvenience  in  bringing  commercial 
causes,  as  well  as  others,  for  adjudication 
before  the  Court  of  Appeals  mentioned  in 
the  scheme  of  Confederation.  I  am  convin- 
ced that  if  ever  that  tribunal  comes  into 
existence,  it  will  be  composed  of  the  most 
eminent  men  in  the  several  provinces,  who 
will  devote  their  whole  energies  to  the  causes 
brought  before  them,  but  the  majority  of 
whom  will  have  studied  and  practised  a  code 
diflferent  ^rom  ours ;  although  the  laws  of 
Upper  Canada,  for  instance,  have  a  constant 
tendency  to  coincide  with   our  civil  code : 

74 


Blackstone,  with  his  national  common  law 
which  he  aimed  at  establishing,  being  no 
longer  the  great  authority  which  he  was  in 
former  days,  and  England,  like  Germany, 
drawing  rather  from  the  pure  spring  of  Ro- 
man law,  as  the  moat  perfectly  rational  code 
in  existence.  We  have  not,  however,  yet 
come  to  this  position  of  things  in  our  pro- 
vinces, and,  up  to  the  present  hour,  English 
law  consists  rather  of  precedents  and 
decisions  of  eminent  judges,  like  Lords 
Mansfield,  Coke,  and  others;  and  as 
the  scheme  of  a  Constitution  makes  an 
exception  in  favor  of  our  civil  laws,  it  would 
be  most  prudent,  in  my  opinion,  to  leave 
the  decision  of  our  causes  to  those  judges 
who  have  studied  and  practised  them. 
Nothing  is  as  yet  written  in  the  Constitu- 
tion concerning  them,  and  nothing  stands 
in  the  way  of  the  desired  exception.  (Hear.) 
I  am  aware  that  it  may  be  attended  with 
some  inconveniences  and  that  in  this  behalf 
concessions  may  have  been,  perforce,  sub- 
mitted to  in  order  to  obtain  others;  but 
I  think  that  on  reflection  it  will  be  found 
best  for  all  concerned  to  have  the  laws  en- 
forced rather  by  tho.se  who  understand  them 
than  by  those  who  do  not.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
now  come,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  the  question  of 
marriage  and  divorce.  The  word  divorce 
has  sounded  strangely  upon  Catholic  ears 
through  the  length  and  breadth  of  Lower 
Canada ;  for  the  Catholic,  whether  he  live 
in  Rome,  in  London,  Paris,  New  York, 
Halifax  or  Quebec,  does  not  recognize  any 
authority  on  earth  with  power  to  sanction  or 
legalize  divorce.  Such  is  what  the  Catho- 
lic believes,  whether  he  be  the  Sovereign 
Pontifi",  ruling  spiritually  over  200,000,000 
souls,  or  the  humblest  or  poorest  of  the 
faithful,  with  nothing  to  shelter  him  from 
the  fury  of  the  elements  but  the  thatched 
roof  of  his  cabin.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  is 
what  I  believe,  in  common  with  all  the 
Catholics  of  the  world;  but  here,  in  this 
House,  composed  of  Catholics  and  Protes- 
tants, I  feel  that  I  need,  in  order  to  be 
understood,  to  speak  in  another  language, 
which  will  be  understood  by  all,  because 
it  i.'^  based  upon  principles  anterior  to  Chris- 
tianity and  universally  admitted.  What  is 
marriage,  considered  as  a  natural  contract? 
It  is  the  social  formula ;  it  is,  as  I  had  occa- 
sion to  write  elsewhere,  the  natural  mode  of 
transmitting  property,  which  is  the  funda- 
iaeutai  base  of  society,  and,  to  go  farther, 
society  itself  in   its   constitution.     (Hear, 


578 


hear.)  If  we  cannot  suppose  a  body  without 
a  form,  so  we  cannot  suppose  society  with- 
out its   formula,  and  in   destroying  its  for- 
mula  you    destroy   society.      That   is   the 
reason   why  the  marriage  tie  should  be  in- 
dissoluble ;  it    is    it   which    constitutes   the 
family,  and  in  breaking  that  tie  you  destroy 
the   family,  in  breaking  that  tie  you  strike 
a  mortal  blow  at  society,  because  family  ties 
are  its   only  base,   its   only   foundation,  its 
only  element  of  composition       (Hear.)     It 
is  from  those  fundamentai  truths  that  spring 
the    rights,    duties    and    civil    laws    which 
prove  their  existence  and  at  the  same  time 
protect  them.     (Hear.)     I   have   heard   i>i 
another  place  than  in  this  House,  men  who, 
forgetting  the  natural  law  and  the  principles 
of  society,  become   affected   at    the   recital 
of  the    domestic   mis-eries   of  one   of  their 
fellow-beings,  and  even   invoke  the  Divine 
word  to  justify  them  in  granting  a  divorce 
for   cause   of  adultery.     Let  us  see   if  the 
language  of  the  Saviour  of  the  world,  wlio 
taught  here  upon    earth  a  social   doctrine, 
by  preserving  the  inviolability  of  domestic 
ties  and  surrounding  them  with  duties  which 
rendered   them   still   more   sacred,  justifies 
such   an   interpretation — "  I  say  unto  you, 
that  he  who  putteth  away  his  wife,  except 
for  adultery,  and  niarrieth  another,  comniit- 
teth  adultery,  and  he  who  marrieth  her  who 
hath  been   put  away  also  cjinmitteth  adul- 
tery."    Are  not  these  words  as  clear  as  day, 
and   do  they  not  expressly   forbid  divorce, 
since  they  declare  an  adulterer  the  man  who 
shall  marry  the  woman  separated  from  her 
husband.     (Hear,  hear.)     These  words  per- 
mit the  sending  away,  the  separation  of  the 
body,  but  they  expressly  forbid  divorce — 
that  is,  the  rupture  of  family  ties.  (Applause.) 
I  have  said  that  those  Divine  words  had  a 
social  object;  in  fact  what  other  object  could 
they  have  but  to  preserve  intact  the  social 
formula  for  the  transmission  of  property  ;  and 
if  they  surround  that  formula  with  a  super- 
natui"al  sanction,   accompanied  by  a  prospect 
of  reward   or  punishment,  it  is  to  protect  it 
still    more.      It  is  for   this   reason    that,   in 
Catholicism,  marriage,  a  natural  contract,  is 
elevated  to  the  dignity  of  a  sacrament,  but  it 
was   inviolable   and   indissoluble   before  that 
sanction,     (^Hear,   hear.)     Now,   if  wo  drop 
the  consider  I tion  of  these  great  philo-sopliical 
Christian  ideas,  we  come  to  the  region  oi"  ma- 
terial facts,  and  we  are  forcibly  led   to  distin- 
guish between  force  and  right,  between  power 
and  duty.    The  sovereign  legislative  authority, 


as  a  superior  power  everywhere,  in  spite  of 
right  and  duty,  has  ruled  with  a  high  hand 
questions  in  the  social  order,  among  which 
may  be  found  divorce  ;  everywhere,  in  ancient 
Rome,  in  France,  in  England,  in  the  United 
States,  and  in  Canada,  has  this  authority 
acted,  and  the  judiciary  was  bound  to  execute 
its  commands.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  power 
is  inherent  to  Parliament,  and  is  exercised 
without  opposition.  Our  present  Parliament 
possessed  that  power,  as  did  those  of '74  and 
'91,  and  several  of  us  have  had,  at  some  time 
or  other,  to  give  our  vote  on  a  bill  of  divorce. 
Catholics  invariably  voted  against  those  bills, 
denying  the  right,  but  unable  to  deny  the 
power,  of  Parliament,  thus  reconciling  their 
consciences  with  their  principles.  (^Hear, 
hear.)  This  scheme  of  the  Conference  does 
not  ask  us  to-day  to  proclaim  a  principle,  but 
simply  the  transposition  of  the  exercise  of  a 
power  which  exists  in  spite  of  us.  Now,  in 
weighing  the  advantages  and  inconveniences, 
I,  for  my  part,  say — and  I  believe,  in  so 
speaking  I  express  the  general  sentiment  of 
Catholics — that,  since  the  evil  is  a  neces- 
sary one,  and  cannot  be  got  rid  of,  I  would 
rather  see  it  where  its  consequences  would  be 
less  serious,  because  they  would  be  more 
cramped  in  their  development,  and  conse- 
quently less  demoralizing  and  less  fatal  in 
their  influence.  (Hear,  hear.)  Marriage 
presents  itself  to  us  here  under  another  aspect 
— that  is,  marriage  with  regard  to  its  civil 
effects.  This  project  attributes  the  civil  laws 
and  legislation  as  to  property  to  the  local 
legislatures.  Now,  marriage,  considered  as  a 
civil  contract,  becomes  necessarily  a  part  of 
these  laws,  and,  I  might  even  say,  it  affects 
the  entire  civil  code,  containing  in  its  broadest 
sen?e  all  the  marriage  acts,  all  the  qualities 
and  conditions  required  to  allow  marriage  to 
be  contracted,  all  the  formalities  relative  to 
its  celebration,  all  its  nullifying  causes,  all  its 
obligations,  its  dissolution,  the  separation  of 
the  body,  its  causes  and  effects  ;  in  a  word,  all 
the  possible  consequences  that  can  result  from 
marriage  to  the  contracting  parties,  their 
children  and  their  estates.  (^Hear,  hear.) 
If  such  had  been  the  intention  of  the  dele- 
gates, we  might  au  well  say  that  the  civil  laws 
will  not  be  one  of  the  attributes  of  our  Local 
Legislature,  and  that  these  words,  "Property 
and  civil  rights,"  have  been  placed  ironically 
in  the  fifteenth  section  of  the  forty-third 
clause  of  the  scheme.  But  I  was  sure  be- 
forehand that  such  could  not  be  the  case, 
when  the  Honorable  Solicitor  General  for 
Lower  Canada  declared  the  other  day,  in  the 


579 


name  of  the  Government,  that  the  word  mar- 
riage, inserted  in  the  project  of  Confedera- 
tion, expresses  the  intention  to  give  to  the 
Federal  Parliament  the  power  to  declare  that 
marriages  contracted  in  any  one  of  the  pro- 
vinces, according  to  its  laws,  should  be  con- 
sidered as  valid  in  all  the  others.  Then  am  I 
to  understand  that  that  part  of  the  Constitu- 
tion relating  to  this  question  will  be  drafted 
in  the  sense  expressed  in  the  declaration  of 
the  Honorable  Solicitor  Greneral,  and  will  be 
restricted  to  the  case  mentioned? 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  L ANGEVIN— I  made, 
Mr.  Speaker,  the  other  day,  in  the  name  of 
the  Government,  the  declaration  now  alluded 
to  by  the  honorable  member  for  Montmor- 
ency, relative  to  the  question  of  marriage. 
The  explanation  then  given  by  me  exactly 
accords  with  that  which  was  affixed  to  it  at 
the  Quebec  Conference.  It  is  undoubted  that 
the  resolutions  laid  before  this  honorable 
House  contain  in  all  things  only  the  princi- 
ples on  which  the  bill  or  measure  respecting 
Confederation  will  be  based.  I  can  assure 
the  honorable  member  that  the  explanations  i 
gave  the  other  evening,  relative  to  the  ques- 
tion of  marriage,  are  perfectly  exact,  and  that 
the  Imperial  Act  relating  to  it  will  be  drawn 
up  in  accordance  with  the  interpretation  I 
put  upon  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  thought  I  under- 
stood from  some  one,  whom  I  had  reason  to 
consider  well  informed,  that  that  article  was 
intended  to  protect  mixed  marriages. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— In  order 
that  I  may  be  better  understood  by  the  hon. 
member,  I  will  read  the  written  declaration 
which  I  communicated  to  the  House  the  other 
This  declaration  reads  as  follows : 


evening 


The  word  marriage  has  been  placed  in  the  draft 
of  the  proposed  Constitution  to  invest  the  Federal 
Parliament  with  the  right  of  declaring  what  mar- 
riages shall  be  held  and  deemed  to  be  valid 
throughout  the  whole  extent  of  the  Confederacy, 
without,  however,  interfering  in  any  particular 
with  the  doctrines  or  rites  of  the  religious  creeds 
to  which  the  contracting  parties  may  belong. 

The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  will  please 
to  remark  that  I  have  been  careful  in 
reading  this  declaration ;  and  in  order  that 
no  doubt  may  exist  respecting  it,  I  have  given 
to  the  reporters  the  very  text  of  the  declara- 
tion. 

Hon.  Mr.  DOUION — I  may  have  been 
mistaken ;  but  the  question  on  which  I  wish 
to  be  enlightened  by  the  Hon.  Solicitor  Gene- 
ral for  Lower  Canada  is  this :  Will  a  Local 
Legislature  have  the  right  of  declaring  a  mar- 


riage between  parties  not  professing  the  same 
religious  belief  invalid  ? 

Hon.  ATTy.  Gen.  CARTIER— Has  not 
the  Legislature  of  Canada  now  the  power  of 
legislating  on  that  matter,  and  yet  has  it  ever 
thought  of  legislating  in  that  way  ?     (Hear, 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— If  I  understand 
the  explanation  of  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General 
for  Lower  Canada  correctly,  it  will  be  nothing 
but  the  application  between  the  provinces  of 
public  international  law,  namely,  that  a  mar- 
riage lawfully  contracted  in  one  province 
should  be  equally  binding  in  all  the  others. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — In  that  case  you 
have  no  need  of  that  clause. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— If  the  principle 
is  just,  I  do  not  see  what  harm  there  can  be 
in  having  it  Wiritten  in  the  Constitution,  par- 
ticularlyas  it  is  desired  in  the  provinces,  and 
we,  for  our  part,  are  interested  in  knowing 
that  marriages  contracted  in  Lower  Canada 
are  valid  in  all  parts  of  the  Confederatiim. 
That  declaration  is  satisfactory  and  reassur- 
ing.    Some  of  the  speakers,  imbued  with  de- 
mocratic-republican ideas,  have  gone  so  far  as 
to  deny  one  of  the  most  essential  and  funda- 
mental principles  of  the  British  Constitution 
— that   is  to  say,  that   the  Parliament  may 
change  the  Constitution  without  special  ap- 
peals to  the  electoral   body,  and  without  re- 
course to  popular  conventions.     It  is  evident 
that  they  wish  to  lead  us  towards  a  social  re- 
public,   covernmeut    and   legislation   in  full 
force.     The  Roman  armies  in  the  days  of  the 
decadence  of  the  empire,  made  and  unmade 
emperors ;  but  it  never  occurred  to  them  to 
make  laws    and  administer   affairs  of  state. 
This  bad  to  be  reserved  to  our  republicans, 
who  are  against  Confederation  because  they 
desire  annexation  to  the  United  States,  and 
who  raise  all  kinds  of  obstacles  in  order  to 
attain  their  end.     (Hear,  hear.)     Here  there 
are  useless    debates   provoked   in    order   to 
kill  time  ;  there,  petitions  covered  with  false 
signatures  or  names  obtained  under  false  pre- 
tences ;  and  the  forlorn  hope  of  democracy, 
who  in   the  streets  threaten  with  riots  and 
gibbets  all  who  wish  for  the  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces, and  thereby,  in  its  time,  constitutional 
monarchy     and    parliamentary    government. 
(Hear,  hear.)     But  for  those  who,  like  my- 
self, move  in   another  circle    of  ideas,   who 
have  other  aspirations,  and  who   are  unwill- 
ing to   accept  on   any  condition  tbeir  share 
of   a  debt  of   three   thousand  millions,   and 
of  an  annual  burthen  of  five  hundred  mil- 


580 


lions  of  dollars;  for  those  the  theory  and 
practice  of  English  constitutional  law  alone 
possess  attractions.  (Hear,  hear.)  These  con- 
victions on  my  part  are  not  of  yesterday. 
When,  in  1849,  after  a  commercial  crisis, 
which  had  everywhere  caused  discourage- 
ment, ruined  merchants  sighed  for  annexa- 
tion, because  they  hoped  to  find  in  it  a  rem- 
edy for  the  ills  and  the  fortune  they  had  lost ; 
they  supplicated  Great  Britain  to  allow  them 
to  go  over,  arms  and  baggage,  to  the  Wash- 
ington Government ;  to  them  became  imme- 
diately allied  the  republicans  by  inclination 
and  principle,  among  whom  were  the  honora- 
ble members  for  Chateauguay  and  Hochelaga. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  prosperity  which  followed 
brought  back  the  merchants  to  afi"ection  for 
British  rule,  but  the  others  remained  repub- 
licans and  annexationists.  Their  leaders  are 
here  before  us.  Their  acts  betray  them,  and 
were  it  permitted  to  us  to  hear  them  in  their 
familiar  counsels,  I  aia  sure  their  words  would 
also  betray  them.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  an- 
nexation movement  had  scarcely  commenced 
in  Montreal,  when  the  two  similar  classes  of 
men  began  to  agitate  in  Quebec,  and  called  an 
annexationist  meeting  in  the  St.  George's 
Hotel,  now  occupied  as  the  Executive  Coun- 
cil Chamber.  This  meeting  was  inaugurated 
under  evil  auspices.  It  was  presided  over  by 
a  bankrupt  merchant.  It  was  evening,  and 
the  meeting  was  held  by  gas-light.  An  orator 
was  chanting  with  stentorian  lungs  the  praises 
<  '.annexation  and  republicanism,  from  which 
we  were  to  derive  prosperity  and  happiness. 
Respectable  leading  citizens,  indignant  at 
what  they  beheld,  implored  me  to  speak,  and 
by  a  spontaneous  movement  I  was  borne  to- 
wards the  platform.  The  annexationist  orator, 
losing  his  balance  with  the  shock,  in  order  to 
keep  himself  upright,  seized  the  gas-burner 
above  his  head,  but  the  frail  support  gave 
way.  (Laughter.)  The  flames  ascended  in 
a  threatening  manner  towards  the  ceiling,  and 
the  terrified  hotel-keeper  immediately  ran  to 
the  cellar  and  put  a  stop  to  the  sources  of  illu- 
mination— and  thus  annexation  was  quenched 
in  utter  darkness.  (Clieers  and  continuous 
laughter.)  The  republican  annexationists, 
their  hearts  bursting  with  rage,  in  order  to 
avenge  themselves,  proceeded  to  break  my 
windows.  This  occurred  nearly  sixteen  years 
ago,  and  time  has  only  strengthened  M'ithin 
me  the  opinion  which  guided  my  action  then. 
It  is  neither  hatred  nor  prejudice  which  has 
inspired  me  since  I  have  been  able  to  read 
and  reflect.  My  opinion  is  the  result  of 
matured  conviction.     It  is,  therefore,  in  the 


parliamentary  history  of  Great  Britain,  and 
not  in  that  of  American  institutions,  that  I 
shall  seek  a  rule  of  conduct  to  guide  me  under 
the  circumstances.  In  1717  the  British  soil 
was  invaded  by  the  Pretender.  The  tories, 
who  were  not  in  power,  but  who  wanted  to 
rise  to  it  precisely  like  the  honorable  members 
in  opposition  whom  I  see  before  me,  exclaim- 
ed, like  them,  that  the  church  and  religion  of 
the  country  were  in  danger.  Observe  well 
the  similarity.  These  tories  wished  to  elevate 
a  Catholic  prince  to  the  throne.  (Laughter,  j 
The  Whigs,  who  held  the  Government,  and 
who  saw  in  the  approaching  election  the  cer- 
tainty of  the  downfall  of  the  reigning  dynasty, 
determined  to  prolong  the  existence  of  the 
Parliament  for  four  years  more  without  an 
appeal  to  the  people.  Their  adversaries  ex- 
claimed, as  do  ours  to-day,  about  violation  of 
the  Constitution,  and  accused  them  of  evading, 
by  violent  means,  an  appeal  to  the  people,  to 
maintain  themselves  in  power. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION — In  proportion  to  their 
numbers,  there  are  more  Protestants  than 
Catholics  in  favor  of  Confederation. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— In  the  first  place, 
there  are  a  great  many  more  Protestants  in 
the  House  than  Catholics — Upper  Canada 
being  entirely  Protestant  with  the  exception 
of  two  votes,  and  the  Opposition  of  Lower  ' 
Canada  pronouncing  themselves,  as  a  party, 
against  Confederation,  it  is  not  to  be  wondered 
at  that  there  should  be  proportion  ably  more 
Protestants  than  Catholics  in  favor  of  Con- 
federation. (Hear,  hear,  from  the  Opposition 
benches.)  And  this  leads  me  to  say  that 
Catholic  institutions  have  been  much  better 
maintained  by  Protestant  votes  than  by  certain 
Catholic  votes  in  the  Legislature.  If  Catho- 
licism has  been  insulted,  the  insult  has  come 
from  the  Opposition  newspapers.     (Hear.J 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— The  Ghhe,  the  organ 
of  the  Honorable  the  President  of  the  Council  I 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Yes,  the  Ghhe 
has  made  attacks  on  Catholic  institutions  and 
the  Catholic  clergy — it  was  wrong,  there  is 
no  doubt,  and  so  was  its  proprietor.  But  at 
that  time,  and  more  particularly  when  the 
Honorable  the  President  of  the  Council  ac- 
cused Catholicism  of  demoralizing  society, 
who  was  it  who  rvjplied  on  the  floor  of  this 
House,  at  groat  length,  and  I  believe  victor- 
iously, in  disproof  of  that  assertion?  (Sensa- 
tion.) I  am  then  justified  in  saying  that  the 
Honorable  the  President  of  the  Council  was 
wrong  in  speaking  and  writing  as  lie  did.  He 
waa  unjust,  but  ho  was  a  Protestant,  and  he 
adhered  to  his  opinions.     What,  however,  has 


581 


he  written  in  comparison  with  what  has  been 
written  by  certain  newspapers  of  the  Catholic 
opposition,  among  which  the  Avenir  takes 
the  highest  place  ?  They  have  ransacked  the 
history  of  the  world  from  the  beginning  of  the 
Christian  era  in  search  of  the  calumnies  of 
past  ages,  with  the  view  of  overwhelming,  if 
it  were  possible,  onr  bishops  and  priests. 
They  have  even  gone  so  far  as  to  cast  their 
venom  upon  the  august  Pontiff  who  now  rules 
over  the  Catholic  Church  ;  and  what  has  not 
been  done  by  the  Institut  Canadien  of  Mont- 
real, which  is  patronized  by  the  leaders  of  the 
Opposition  ?     (  Cheers. ) 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— And  the  Avenir, 
which  asserted  that  the  Pope  ought  to  be  a 
schoolmaster. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Ah  !  we  now  well 
know  those  who  pretend  to  be  the  defenders 
of  Catholicism,  those  former  editors  of  the 
Avenir;  we  know  what  has  been  done  by  the 
Avenir,  and  the  Pays  also,  in  certain  circum- 
stances. (Hear,  hear.)  But  here  is  what  we 
find  in  a  great  constitutional  authority,  the 
value  of  which  honorable  gentlemen  opposite 
will  probably  not  contest — "  Hallam's  His- 
tory of  England"  : — 

Upon  the  prevalent  disaffection  and  the  general 
changes  of  the  established  government  was  found- 
ed that  measure  so  frequently  arraiirned  in  later 
times,  the  substitution  of  septennial  for  triennial 
parliaments.  The  Ministry  deemed  it  too  perilous 
to  their  master,  certainly  for  themselves,  to  en- 
counter a  general  election  in  1717  5  but  the  ar- 
guments adduced  for  the  alteration,  as  if  it  was 
meant  to  be  permanent,  were  drawn  from  its  per- 
manent expediency.  Nothing  can  be  more  ex- 
travagant than  what  is  sometimes  confidently 
pretended  by  the  ignorant,  that  the  legislature 
exceeded  its  rights  by  this  enactment ;  or  if  that 
cannot  legally  be  advanced,  that  it  at  least  vio- 
lated the  trust  of  the  people,  and  broke  in  upon 
the  ancient  Constitution.  Th.3  law  for  triennial 
parliaments  was  of  little  more  than  twenty  years' 
continuance.  It  was  an  experiment  which,  as 
was  argued,  had  proved  unsuccessful ;  it  was 
subject,  like  every  other  law,  to  be  repealed 
entirely,  or  to  be  modified  at  discretion.  As  a 
question  of  constitutional  expediency,  the  septen- 
nial bill  was  doubtless  open  at  the  time  to  one 
serious  objection.  E^^eryone  admitted  that  a  par- 
liament subsisting  indefinitely  during  a  king's 
life,  but  exposed  at  all  times  to  be  dissolved  at 
his  pleasure,  would  become  far  too  little  depen- 
dent on  the  people,  and  far  too  much  so  on  the 
Crown.  But  if  the  period  of  its  continuance 
should  thus  be  extended  from  three  to  seven 
years,  the  natural  course  of  encroachment  of  those 
in  power,  or  some  momentous  circum.<itance  like 
the  present,  might  lead  to  fresh  prolongations, 
and  gradually  to  an  entire  repeal  of  what  had 
been   thought  so  important  a  safeguard  of  its 


purity.  Time  has  happily  put  an  end  to  appre- 
hensions, which  aie  not  on  that  account  to  be 
reckoned  unreasonable. 

Against  those  who  pretended  that  the  Parlia- 
ment of  England  could  not  effect,  without  an 
appeal  to  the  people,  a  legislative  union  with 
Ireland,  William  Pitt,  that  other  great 
constitutional  authority,  maintained  that  Par- 
liament had  the  right  to  alter  even  the  suc- 
cession to  the  Throne,  to  incorporate  with  it- 
self another  legislature,  to  deprive  of  the  fran- 
chise those  who  elected  it,  and  to  create  for 
itself  other  electors.  To  be  more  exact  I  will 
quote  from  a  speech  made  by  the  illustrious 
Sir  Robert  Peel,  on  the  27th  March,  1846, 
on  the  Corn  Law  question.  You  will  find 
there  the  opinion  of  Pitt,  Fox  and  Peel 
himself,  the  most  weighty  English  constitu- 
tional authority  of  this  century.  It  is  found 
in  Hansards  Parliamentary  Debates,  third 
series,  vol.  85,  pages  224,  225  and  226.  Sir 
PtOBERT  Peel  said  : — 

But  my  honorable  friend  says  he  did  not  object 
to  it  as  impeding  the  formation  of  a  protection 
government,  but  as  preventing  a  dissolution  ;  and 
my  honorable  friend  and  others  have  blamed  me 
for  not  advising  a  dissolution  of  Parliament.  In 
my  opinion,  it  would  Jiave  been  utterly  inconsist- 
ent with  the  duty  of  a  Minister  to  advise  a  disso- 
lution of  Parliament  uuder  the  particular  circum- 
stances in  which  this  question  of  the  Corn  Law 
was  placed.  Why  should  it  be  so  utterly  impos- 
sible for  this  Parliament  to  deal  with  the  present 
proposition?  After  its  election  in  1841,  this 
Parliament  passed  the  existing  Corn  Law,  which 
diminished  protection;  this  I'arliament  passed 
the  tariff  destroying  altogether  the  system  of 
prohibition  with  respect  to  food  ;  this  Parliament 
passed  the  Canada  Corn  Bill ;  why  should  it 
exceed  the  functions  of  this  Parliament  to  enter- 
tain the  present  proposition  ?  But  upon  much 
higher  ground  I  would  not  consent  to  a  dissolu- 
tion. That,  indeed,  1  think  would  have  been  a 
"  dangerous  precedent"  for  a  Minister  to  admit 
that  the  existing  Legislature  was  incompetent  to 
the  entertainment  of  any  question  ;  that  is  a  pre- 
cedent which  I  would  not  establish.  Whatever 
may  have  been  the  circumstances  that  may  have 
taken  place  at  an  election,  I  never  would  sanction 
the  view  that  any  House  of  Commons  is  iuc»m 
petent  to  entertain  a  measure  that  is  necessary 
for  the  well-being  of  the  community.  If  you 
were  to  admit  that  doctrine,  you  would  shake  the 
foundations  on  which  many  of  the  best  laws  are 
placed.  Why,  that  doctrine  was  propounded  at 
the  time  of  the  union  between  England  and  Ire- 
land, as  it  had  been  previously  at  the  time  of  the 
union  between  England  and  Scotland.  It  was 
maintained  in  Irelasd  very  vehemently,  but  it  was 
not  maintained  in  this  country  by  Mr.  Fox.  It 
was  slightly  adverted  to  by  Mr.  Sheridan  at  the 
time  whan  the  message  with  regard  to  the  union 


582 


was   delivered.     Parliament    had    been    elected 
without    the    slightest     reason    to    believe     it 
would  resolve  that  its  functions  were  to  be  fused 
and  mixed   with  those   of  another  Legislature, 
namely,  the  Irish  Parliament;  and  Mr.  Sheridax 
slightly  hinted  it  as  an  objection  to  the  compe- 
tency of  Parliament.    Mr.  Pitt  met  that  objection 
at  the  outset  in  the  following  manner.     Mr.  Pitt 
said : — "  The  first  objection  is  what  I  heard  alluded 
to  by  the   honorable  gentleman  opposite  to  me, 
when  His  Majesty's  message  was  brought  down, 
namely,  that  the  Parliament  of  Ireland  is  incom- 
petent to  entertain  and  discuss   the  question,  or 
rather,  to  act  upon  the  measui-e  propose i  without 
having  previously  obtained  the   consent  of  the 
people  of  Ireland,  their  constituents.    This  point, 
sir,  is  of  so  much  importance  that  I  think  I  ought 
not  to  suffer  the  opportunity  to  pass  without  illus- 
trating more  fully  what  I  mean.    If  this  pi-inciple 
of  the   incompetency  of  Parliament  to  the  deci- 
sion of  the  measure  be  admitted,  or  if  it  be  con- 
tended that  Parliament  has  no  legitimate  author- 
ity to  discuss  and  decide  upou  it,  you   will  be 
driven  to  the  necessity  of  recognizing  a  principle 
the  most  dangerous  that  ever  was  adopted  in  any 
civilized  state,  I  mean  the  principle  that  Parlia- 
ment cannot  adopt  any  measure,  new  in  its  nature 
and  of  great  importance,  without  appealing  to  the 
constituent  and  delegating  authority  for  direction. 
If  that  doctrine  be  true,  look  to  what  an  extent  it 
will  carry  you.     If   such  an  argument  could  be 
set  up  and  maintained,  you  ^cted  without  any  le- 
gitimate authority  when  you  created  the   repre- 
sentation of  the  Principality  of  Wales  or  of  either 
of  the  counties  palatine  of  England.     Every  law 
that  Parliament  ever  made,  without  that  appeal, 
either  as  to  its  own  frame  and  constitution,  as  to 
the  qualification  of  the  electors  or  the  elected,  as 
to  the  great  and  fundamental  point  of  the  succes- 
sion to  the  Crown,  was  a  breach  of  treaty  and  an 
act  of  usurpation."     Then,  Mr.  Pitt  asked,   if 
they  turned  to   Ireland  herself,  what  would  they 
say  to  the  Protestant  Parliame  t  that  destroyed 
the  exclusive  Protestant  franchise,  and  admitted 
the  Roman  Catholics  to  vote  without  any  fresh 
appeal  ?     Mr.  Pitt  went  on  : — 

"  What  must  be  said  by  those  who  have  at  any 
time  been  friends  to  any  plan  of  parliamentary 
reform,  and  particularly  such  as  have  been  most 
recently  brought  forward,  either  in  Great  Britain 
or  Ireland  ?  Whatever  may  have  been  thought  of 
the  proptiety  of  the  measure,  I  never  heard  any 
doubt  of  the  competency  of  Parliament  to  con- 
sid«r  and  discuss  it.  Yet  I  defy  any  man  to 
maintain  the  principle  of  those  plans  without 
contendmg  that,  as  a  member  of  Parliament,  he 
possesses  a  right  to  concur  in  disfranchising  those 
who  sent  him  to  Parliament,  and  to  select  others, 
by  whom  he  was  not  elected,  in  their  stead.  I 
am  sure  that  no  sufficient  distinction,  in  point  of 
principle,  can  be  succeBsfully  maintained  for  a 
single  moment  ;  nor  should  1  deem  it  necessary 
to  dwell  on  this  point  in  the  manner  that  I  do, 
were  I  not  convinced  that  it  is  connected  in  part 
with  all  those  false  and  dangerous  notions  on  the 


subject  of  Government  which  have  lately  become 
too  prevalent  in  the  world. '^  Mr.  Pitt  contended, 
therefore,  that  Parliament  had  a  right  to  alter 
the  succession  to  the  Throne,  to  incorporate  with 
itself  another  legislature,  to  disfranchise  its  con- 
stituents, or  associate  others  with  them.  Why, 
is  it  possible  for  a  Minister  now  to  advise  the 
Crown  to  dissolve  Parliament  on  the  ground  that 
it  is  incompetent  to  entertain  the  question  what 
this  country  shall  do  with  the  Corn  Law  ?  There 
could  not  be  a  more  dangerous  example,  a  more 
purely  democratic  precedent,  if  1  may  so  say, 
than  that  this  Parliament  should  be  dissolved,  on 
ground  of  its  incompetency  to  decide  any  ques- 
tion of  this  nature.  I  am  open  to  the  charge, 
therefore,  if  it  be  one,  that  I  did  advise  Her 
Majesty  to  permit  this  measure  to  be  brought  for- 
ward in  the  present  Parliament. 

The  principle  which  I  hold  is  so  firmly  estab- 
lished, that  at  the  time  of  the  flight  of  James 
II.  in  1688,  the  English  Parliament,  that  is 
to  say  two  branches  of  it  only,  declared  the 
succession  vacant  and  gave  the  Throne  to  a 
new  dynasty. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Hear !  hear  ! 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— I  wish  to  be  well 
understood.     I  do  not  cite  this  example  as  an 
authority,  because  the  Parliament  was  incom- 
plete without  its  third  legislative  branch,  but 
only  for  the  purpose  of  shewing  to  what  length 
the  Parliament  of  Great  Britain  has  carried^ 
the  exercise  of  its  great  prerogative.     During 
the  illness  of  George  III.,  as  it  had  been  im- 
possible to  foresee    that  such   a   misfortune 
would  happen,  and  as  without  the  action  of 
the  Sovereign,  neither   the   administration  of 
the  government,  which   is  conducted  in   the 
name  of  the  king,  nor  legislation,  which  is  only 
effectual  after  receiving  the  assent  of  the  three 
branches  of  the  legislature,  were  possible  ;  un- 
der these  unforeseen   circumstances,  the  two 
Houses,  at  the  suggestion   of  the   Ministers 
created  a  mechanism  to  act  during  the  illness 
of  the  king,  and   all  that  was  done  under  its 
operation  became  law,  and  was  regarded   as 
such  by  the  whole  British  nation  and  all  those 
charged  with  the  execution  of  the  laws  of  Par- 
liament.    But  setting  aside  these  extraordin- 
ary circumstances,  which  demanded  extraor- 
dinary remedies,  we  assert  that  Parliament  in 
its  integrity  has  power  to  alter  the  Constitu- 
tion and  even  the  succession  to  the  Throao. 
As  to  us,  we  do  not  propose  to  go  so  far  ;   we 
simply  ask  the  Imperial  Parliament  to  give  us 
a  new  Constitution,  and  even  that  Parliament 
will  only  with  our  consent  make  use  of  that 
power  which  it  has  a  right  to  exercise  without 
our  consent.      (Hear,  hear.)      Let  it  be  ob- 


583 


served,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  I  am  only 
considering  now  the  question  of  power  and 
right ;  the  question  of  what  is  fit  and  ex- 
pedient is  quite  another  matter.  We 
might  do  well  or  we  might  do  ill  by  taking 
this  course,  but  as  we  act  in  our  capacity  of 
representatives  of  the  people,  it  is  for  us  to 
decide  whether  it  is  expedient  or  advantage- 
ous that  an  appeal  should  be  had  to  the  peo- 
ple under  the  circumstances.  (Hear,  hear.) 
As  regards  the  sentiments  of  Great  Britain 
in  relation  to  us,  the  events  which  have  taken 
place  since  the  union  show  that  they  are  al- 
together changed.  In  1840  we  had  a  Con- 
stitution imposed  upon  us  against  our  will,  and 
by  so  doing  Great  Britain  was  guilty  of  in- 
justice towards  us.  Now  they  await  our  decision 
before  they  act.  In  past  days  England  looked 
upon  the  colonies  as  her  own  special  markets, 
and  fortified  them  by  prohibitory  duties  against 
foreign  trade.  Now  they  are  open  to  the 
whole  world.  Formerly  we  were  under  a  des- 
potic andj  oligarchical  government,  and  since 
1841  we  have  had  that  British  Parliamentary 
Government  which  the  great  economist  TuR- 
GOT,  more  than  sixty  years  before,  had  ad- 
vised England  to  extend  to  her  colonies. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Thus  the  Parliament  of  Great 
Britain,  which  had  just  proclaimed  the  union 
with  Ireland,  incorporated  into  its  legislature 
the  representation  of  the  latter,  and  constitu- 
ted itself,  by  its  own  authority,  the  first 
Parliament  of  the  United  Kingdom  of  Great 
Britain,  without  recourse  to  a  dissolution 
and  new  elections.  At  the  meeting  of  the 
Houses  they  proceeded  to  the  election  of 
a  new  Speaker  for  the  Commons,  pre- 
cisely as  after  a  general  election,  and  all 
the  other  formalities  were  observed  which, 
according  to  custom,  accompanied  the  open- 
ing of  new  parliaments.  You  will  find  those 
details  in  the  Parliamentary  History,  vol.  35, 
page  857.  Here  is  another  authority  which 
the  republican-annexation  adversaries  of  Con- 
federation will  hardly  care  to  doubt.  I  find 
it  in  pages  164,  165,  and  166  of  Sedgwick 
on  Statutory  and  Constitutional  Law  : — 

.  or  are  these  merely  speculative  or  abstract 
questions.  We  shall  find  them  presenting  them- 
selves in  a  large  class  of  cases  which  1  am  about 
to  examine.  The  difficulty,  generally,  seems  to 
have  aiisen  from  a  want  of  accurate  notions  as  to 
the  boundary  line  which,  under  our  system,  divides 
the  legislative  and  judicial  powers.  I  now  turn 
to  a  more  detailed  consideration  of  the  cases  in 
this  country,  where  these  questions  have  been 
considered  and  which,  so  far  as  they  go,  tend  to 
give  a  practical  definition  to  the  term  law,  and  to 
define  the  boundaries  which  separate  th«  legisla- 


tive from  the  judicial  power.  And  first,  of  causes 
where  the  legislature  has  sought  to  divest  itself 
of  real  powers.  Efforts  have  been  made,  in  sev- 
eral cases,  by  the  state  legislatures  to  relieve 
themselves  of  the  responsibility  of  their  functions, 
by  submitting  statutes  to  the  will  of  the  people, 
in  their  primary  capacity.  But  these  proceedings 
have  been  held,  and  very  rightly,  to  be  entirely 
unconstitutional  and  invalid.  The  duties  of 
legislation  are  not  to  be  exercised  by  the  people 
at  large.  The  majority  governs,  but  only  in  the 
prescribed  form  ;  the  introduction  of  practices  of 
this  kind  would  remove  all  checks  on  hasty  and 
improvident  legislation,  and  greatly  diminish  the 
benefits  of  representative  government.  So  where 
an  act  to  establish  free  schools  was,  by  its  terms, 
directed  to  be  submitted  to  the  electois  of  the 
state,  to  become  a  law  only  in  case  a  majority  of 
the  votes  were  given  in  its  favor,  it  was  held,  in 
New  York,  that  the  whole  proceeding  was 
entirely  void.  The  Legislature,  said  the  Court 
of  Appeals,  have  no  power  to  make  such  suj)mis- 
sion,  nor  had  the  people  the  power  to  bind  each 
other  by  acting  upon  it.  They  voluntarily  sur- 
rendered that  power  when  they  adopted  the  con- 
stitution. The  government  of  this  state  is 
democratic  ;  but  it  is  a  representative  democracy, 
and  in  passing  general  laws,  the  people  act  only 
through  their  representatives  in  the  Legislature. 
And  in  Pennsylvania,  in  the  case  of  an  excise 
statute,  the  same  stern  and  salutary  doctrine  has 
been  applied.  In  some  of  the  more  recent  state 
constitutions  this  rule 'has  been  made  a  part  of  the 
fundamental  law.  So  in  Indiana,  the  principle  is 
now  framed  into  a  constitutional  provision  which 
vests  the  legislative  authority  in  a  Senate  and 
House  of  Representatives,  and  declares  that  no 
act  "  shall  be  passed,  the  taking  effect  of  which 
shall  be  made  to  depend  upon  any  authority 
e.Ycept  as  provided  in  the  Constitution."  And 
under  these  provisions  it  has  been  held  that  so 
much  of  an  act  as  relates  to  its  submission  to  the 
popular  vote,  was  null  and  void. 

Hon.  Mr.  DOE-ION— In  England  there 
are  seven  or  eight  acts  of  Parliament  which 
were  submitted  to  the  popular  vote  before  be- 
coming law. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— In  England  it  is 
admitted  that  Parliament  may  do  anything 
and  even  change  the  sexes  if  necessary,  ac- 
cording to  the  doctriue  of  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Brome.  (Laughter.)  The  honor- 
able member  for  Hochelaga  is  an  admirer  of 
written  constitutions ;  I  am  citing  authorities 
to  suit  him,  and  which  it  is  quite  impossible 
for  him  to  reject.  (Hear,  hear.)  All  these 
authorities  establish,  by  incontestable  evidence, 
the  power  of  Parliament  in  regard  to  every 
question  that  may  come  before  it.  There 
only  remains  now  the  question  of  convenience 
and  expediency,  and  that  question  can  only  be 
considered  by  Parliament.      In  1717,  1800, 


584. 


and  1846,  the  British  Parliament  decided  it 
without  appealing  to  the  people.  In  1832  it 
decided  the  question  after  an  appeal  to  the 
people,  acting  in  all  those  circumstances  un- 
der the  constitutional  responsibility  of  its 
trust.  That  is  what  we  shall  do  in  the  pre- 
sent difficult  conjuncture,  awaiting  in  the  ap- 
proaching elections  the  approval  or  condem- 
nation of  our  initiative.  But  let  the  oppon- 
ents of  the  scheme  be  well  convinced  that  we 
understand,  quite  as  well  as  themselves,  the 
entire  importance  of  the  vote  which  we  are 
going  to  give.  In  closing,  Mr.  Speaker,  I 
may  be  allowed  to  say  to  the  House,  that  in 
a  debate  of  such  a  solemn  character,  and  when 
such  great  destinies  as  regards  the  future  of 
the  whole  of  British  North  America  are  at 
stake  within  these  walls,  let  us  have  the 
courage  to  rise  superior  to  passions,  hatreds, 
personal  enmities,  and  a  miserable  spirit  of 
party,  in  order  to  allow  our  minds  to  soar 
more  freely  in  the  larger  sphere  of  generous 
sentiments,  and  of  great  and  noble  national 
aspirations.  We  possess  all  that  we  want — 
all  the  necessary  elements  of  greatness  and 
prosperity  to  found  an  empire  in  America. 
Let  us  boldly  set  to  work,  sheltered  by  the 
flag  and  protected  by  the  powerful  aegis  of 
the  Empire  which  leads  us  on  to  undertake 
the  task.     (Prolonged  applause.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Mr.  Speaker,  the 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency,  who  has 
just  sat  down,  having  given  it  as  his  opinion 
that  all  those  who  are  opposed  to  Confedera- 
tiun  are  annexationists  and  infidels,  I  must 
congratulate  him  upon  having  at  last  opened 
his  eyes  and  escaped  the  danger  of  being 
drawn  into  the  vortex  of  the  American  Union, 
and  perhaps  into  something  worse — (laughter) 
— as  but  a  short  time  ago  he  was  in  the  bad 
company  of  those  who  are  opposed  to  Confed- 
eration. ■  He  has  even  written  a  whole  volume 
in  opposition  to  the  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Provinces.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  suppose  that  at  that  time  he  did  not  look 
upon  himself  as  an  annexationist,  and  still 
less  as  an  infidel,  for  the  simple  reason  that 
he  combatted  with  all  the  power  at  his  com- 
mand, not  only  Confederation,  but  also  union 
of  any  kind  with  the  British  American  Pro- 
vinces. (Hear,  hear.)  In  that  book,  which 
I  have  jast  referred  to,  and  which  was  writ- 
ten at  the  end  of  1858,  the  honorable  mem- 
ber, after  having  described  the  different  sys- 
tems under  which  the  union  might  be  pro- 
jected, says  : — "  We  do  not  desire  it,  becuuso 
we  do  not  want  union  in  any  form,  inasmuch 
as  the  same  object  will  always  be  attained,  no 


matter  under  what  form  the  union  may  be  es- 
tablished." That  object,  according  to  the  hon. 
member,  was  the  depriving  Lower  Canada  of 
the  small  influence  which  she  exercises  on  the 
legislation  of  the  existing  union.  It  is  true 
that  the  honorable  gentleman  has  written  an- 
other book  lately.  According  to  that  book  he 
no  longer  sees  any  other  danger  for  Lower  Can- 
ada than  that  of  annexation,  and  invites  every- 
one to  turn  round  as  he  has  done,  and  to  fol- 
low him  with  the  view  of  avoiding  these  dan- 
gers. (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  Once 
more  I  congratulate  him  that  he  is  now  out 
of  danger,  and  I  will  endeavor  to  follow  him 
with  his  two  books  in  his  hand.  As  it  is  too 
late  to-night,  however,  I  will  do  it  at  the  next 
sitting,  and  for  that  purpose  I  move  that  the 
debate  be  now  adjourned. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON  — The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  alludes  to  the  two 
pamphlets  which  I  have  written,  one  in  1858, 
and  the  other  in  1865,  on  the  subject  of  the 
Confederation  of  the  provinces.  The  difier- 
ence  between  the  honorable  member  and  me 
is  simply  this,  that  I  do  not  deny  what  I  have 
written,  whilst  in  order  that  he  may  enjoy 
greater  freedom  of  discussion,  he  has  thought 
proper  to  deny  his  actions  in  the  past.  (Hear, 
hear.)  There  is  another  contradiction  which 
it  is  of  importance  to  remark.  After  having 
asserted,  up  to  1861,  that  there  was  danger 
for  Lower  Canada  in  not  granting  to  Upper 
Canada  representation  based  upon  population, 
or  its  substitute,  the  Confederation  of  the 
two  Canadas,  and  that  the  danger  was  so 
menacing  that  it  was  more  prudent  to  give 
way  than  to  allow  it  to  be  forcibly  taken  by 
her — to-day  he  comes  down  and  maintains 
that  the  horizon  is  quite  serene ;  that  there 
is  no  necessity  for  constitutional  changes. 
Does  he  then  so  easily  forget  the  days  of 
1858,  '59,  '60  and  '61  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  For 
my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  think  we  should 
be  acting  with  more  dignity^  and  would  ren- 
der more  service  to  the  country,  if  we  de- 
voted ourselves  exclusively  to  the  considera- 
tion of  the  question,  setting  aside  those  ac- 
cusations of  contradiction  from  which  no  one 
is  ever  exempt.   (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  moved  the  adjourn- 
ment of  the  debate  to  the  sitting  to-morrow 
night  at  half-past  seven. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  moved  in 
amendment  that  it  be  adjourned  till  half-past 
three  to-Miorrow,  to  be  tlien  the  first  order  of 
the  day  after  routine  business. 

After  some  discussion,  the  amendment  waa 
carried,  and  the  House  adjourned. 


585 


Friday,  March  3,  1865. 

Mr.  PERRAULT— Mr.  Speaker,  it  is 
not  without  a  degree  of  hesitation  easy  to 
be  understood  that  I  venture  to  give  my 
reasons  for  my  vote  on  the  question  of  the 
Confederation  of  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America.  I  hesitate,  because  I  am 
conscious  how  much  I  fall  short  in  respect 
of  solid  information  and  political  experience 
to  enable  me  to  form  a  healthy  and  reliable 
judgment  of  the  various  reasons  to  be  alleged 
on  both  sides  of  that  vast  question,  the 
decision  of  which  is  pregnant  with  such 
serious  consequences  to  the  future  welfare 
of  the  country.  A  further  cause  of  my 
hesitation,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  that  I  see  on 
the  Ministerial  benches  men  grown  old  in 
political  warfare — men  who  for  many  years 
have  been  the  leaders  and  guides  of  the 
majorities  in  the  two  Canadas — supporting 
the  scheme  now  submitted  to  us,  and  assur- 
ing us  that  it  is  the  only  remedy  for  all  the 
difficulties  of  our  present  position.  Still 
another  cause  of  my  hesitation  is  that  I  am 
aware  of  the  great  severity  with  which  the 
Ministerial  press  visits  all  the  adversaries 
of  the  plan  of  Confederation,  and  of  the 
small  measure  of  justice  which  it  metes 
out  in  estimating  the  motives  of  those 
who  oppose  this  constitutional  scheme, 
however  upright  their  characters  or 
honest  the  motives  which  actuate  them. 
But  I  should  consider  myself  wanting  in  my 
duty  as  a  member  if,  swayed  by  these  mis- 
givings, I  did  not  state  my  motives  in  this 
House  for  my  opposition  to  the  project  of 
Confederation.  Oa  so  important  a  question 
it  is  a  duty  to  my  constituents,  it  is  a 
duty  which  I  owe  to  myself,  that  I  should 
justify  the  responsibility  which  I  take  upon 
myself  in  resisting  a  measure  which  is  so 
strongly  supported  in  this  House,  and  I 
should  think  I  failed  in  my  duty  and 
was  unworthy  of  the  seat  which  I  fill  in  it,  if 
I  did  not  add  force  to  my  opposition  by 
citing  the  history  of  the  past,  by  pourtraying 
the  prosperity  of  the  present,  and  by  point- 
ing out  the  dangers  to  be  feared  in  the  luture 
which  is  preparing  for  us.  I  have  been 
long  studying  the  general  question  of  a  Con- 
feaeration,  and  I  am  of  opinion  that  the 
Provinces  of  British  North  America  are 
destined  to  form,  at  some  future  time  which 
may  be  more  or  less  remote,  a  vast  Confed- 
eration, in  "which  the  two  races  of  French 
and  English  origin  will  be  seen  struggling 
in  the  career  ot  progress  for  the  common 

75 


prosperity  of  both ;  aud  for  the  better  con- 
venience of  studying  the  question,  I  visited 
the  Lower  Provinces  in  18G3,  by  way  of  the 
Gulf,  and  in  18G4  by  the  Bay  of  Fundy.  I 
am  bound  to  say  that  I  found  the  people 
everywhere  in  easy  circumstances,  and  in- 
telligent, and  doing  honor  to  that  part  of 
the  country.  I  was  then  enabled  to  appre- 
ciate the  advantages  and  the  inconveniences 
attending  on  the  decision  of  the  question  of 
Confederation  generally.  On  n.y  return 
from  my  last  journey,  which  I  made  in  the 
month  of  August,  18G4,  in  cooipany  with  a 
certain  Euaiber  of  the  members  of  both 
Houses,  it  was  said  by  the  press  that  I  had 
in  several  companies  declared  myself  favor- 
able to  the  plan  of  a  Confederation  of  all  the 
provinces.  At  that  time  the  Conference  at 
Charlottetown  had  not  taken  place,  and  pub- 
lic opinion  had  already  busied  itself  with 
classifying  the  members  ot  this  House  as 
favorers  or  opponents  of  Confederation.  I 
had  already,  at  that  time,  publicly  expressed 
my  opinion  on  the  question  through  the 
press,  in  order  that  I  might  bring  it  under 
the  notice  of  my  constituents,  and  I  must 
declare  that  the  opinion  which  I  then  ex- 
pressed coincides  with  the  line  of  conduct 
to  which  I  still  adhere,  and  that  I  have  not 
found  it  necessary  to  alter  my  position  in 
any  one  point  from  what  it  then  was.  In. 
order  that  I  may  show  this  in  the  clearest 
manner,  I  shall  read  what  I  wrote  in  the 
month  of  August  last,  as  perfectly  explana- 
tory of  what  I  always  thought  of  the  scheme 
of  confederating'  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America.     Here  is  what   I  wrote  : — 

This  question  of  serious  import,  on  which  the 
minds  of  all  our  political  world  are  so  busy,  in 
the  present  c;  isis,  is  so  difficult  of  solution,  that 
it  would  be  an  act  of  pre-umption  in  me  v  at- 
tempt even  to  discuss  it,  while  our  public  men  of 
the  highest  mark  are  still  doubtful  whether  to 
favor  it  or  not.  As  the  Minerve,  however,  in 
its  last  number,  claims  me  as  one  of  the  new  con- 
verts to  the  ureat  scheme  of  Confederation,  I 
should  think  myself  wanting  to  my  duty  and  my 
convictions  if  I  failed  to  let  the  world  know  my 
im'iressions  of  the  present  position,  as  I  under- 
stand it.  Those  who  consider  the  inexhaustible 
resources  of  the  Provinces  of  British  North  Ame- 
rica have  no  doubt  that  we  possess  all  the  ele- 
ments of  a  great  power.  In  territory  we  have  a 
tenth  part  of  the  habitable  globe,  capable  of 
supporting  a  population  of  100,000,000  of  per- 
sons. Bounded  on  the  east  by  the  Atlantic,  on 
the  west  by  the  Pacific,  our  territory  is  further 
accessible  by  the  navigation  of  the  internal  seas, 
which  bound  it  on  the  south.  Our  rivers  com- 
plete the  incomparable  net-work  of  communica- 


586 


tioQ  by  water,  and,  like  vivifying  arteries,  bear 
on  their  bosom  to   the  ocean  and  the  markets  ot" 
the    world   the  heavy   produce   of  the    western 
plains,  the  lofty  pines  of  our  forests,  our  ores  of 
gold  and  copper,  our  furs  collected  in  our  hunting 
grounds,  and  the  produce  of  our  fisheries  in  the 
gulf.     In  this  vast  field  of  productiveness,  wheie 
all    the  materials  of  immense  wealth  exist,   we 
need  a  moving  power,  and  the  inexhaustible  coal 
fields  of  Nova  Scotia   are  at  hand  to  furnish  it. 
British  North  America,  therefore,  looms  in  the 
future  with  gigantic  proportions,  and  it  depends 
only  on  ourselves  to  decide  Vhether  the  French 
element   shall  have  a  large  share  of  the  power 
which  is  to    grow   up   within   its   limits.     With 
energy  and  union,  we  shall  keep  the  ground  we 
have  gained  in  a  struggle  of  a  hundred  years. 
The  past  is  a  warranty  of  success  iu  the  future. 
Yet  must  we  not  hurry  matters,  nor  overrun  the 
natural  progress  of  even'ts.     While  we  are  still 
too  few  to  take  the  ofiPensive,  our  policy  should  be 
one  of  resistance.     Accordingly,  before  pledging 
myself  to  the  support  of  Contederatiou,  which  is  a 
total  change  of  the  basis  of  our  present  Constitu- 
tion, I  would  be  perfectly  sure  that  we  shall  not 
lose  an  inch  of  groui:d.     More  than  this ;  I  would 
permit  no  change  to  be  made  iu  our  present  Con- 
stitution, except  in  iis  far  as  it  would  ensuie  a 
larger  measure   of  prosperity  for    our   country, 
more  powerful  protection  for  our  institutions,  and 
the  absolute  inviolability  of  our  rights.     For  I 
have  not  deviated  in  the  smallest  degree  from  the 
terms  of  my  address  to  the  electors  of  Richelieu, 
when  I  had  ihe  honor  to  solicit  their  votes  as  their 
representative  in  the  Legislative    Assembly.     In 
that  address,  I  declared   myself  opposed  to  any 
concession  whatever  to  Upper  Canada.     Accord- 
ingly, if  it  should  appear  that  the   scheme   of 
Confederation,  which  is  to  be  laid  before  the  Pro- 
vincial Parliament  in  its  next  session,  would  assure 
to  French-Canadians  greater  advantages  than  they 
enjoy  under  the  present  Constitution,  I  should,  as 
a  thing  of  course,  be  in  favor  of  Confederation. 
But  if  it  should  be  otherwise  ;  if.  in  however  small 
a  degree.  Confederation  should  appear  to  be   a 
concession  to  Upper  Canada,  to  the  detriment  of 
our  institutions,  our  language  or  our  laws,  I  shall 
to  the  utmost  extent  of  my  power  oppose    any 
change  whatever  in  the  present  Cvmstitution.     Of 
course  I  am  not  one  of  those  who  would  bound 
our  political  horizon  and  place  limits  to  our  great- 
ness as  a  [)eople  ;  on  the  contrary,  nulhing  would 
render  me   happier  than    the  creation  of  a  vast 
political  organization,  spread  over    an  immense 
territory.     The  heart-burnings  between  localities 
and  individuals  would  thenceforward  cease  and  die 
out   from  mere  insignificance,  as  compared  with 
the  great  interests  which  would  be  confided  to  the 
watchful    guardianship   of    our    statesmen,    and 
become  the  subject  of  their  delilKiations  in   the 
councils  of  the  nation.     Then  the  laudable  ambi- 
tion of  achieving  a  great  name  in  a  great  country 
would  jtroduce  a  race  of  great  men,  of  whom  we 
might  be  justly  proud.     Hui  if  this  glorious  future 
is  to  be  purchased  only  at  the  price  of  our  absorp- 
tion, of  our   language,  and  all    that  h  dear  to 


us  as  Frenchmen,  I  for  one  could  not  hesitate 
between  what  we  may  hope  for  while  still  remain- 
ing what  we  are,  pnd  the  bastardizing  of  our  race 
paid  as  the  price  of  advantages  to  come.  To  sum 
up  all,  therefore,  I  declare  for  the  Constitution 
such  as  it  is,  which,  so  far,  has  yielded  us  a  greater 
amount  of  advantage  than  all  the  proposed  changes 
would ;  and  such,  I  venture  to  say,  is  the  opinion 
of  the  majority  of  our  Legislative  Assembly.  But 
if  the  projected  scheme  secures  tn  us  iu  the  conven- 
tion all  the  privileges  which  the  French-Canadians 
now  enjoy  in  the  present  Parliament,  and  if,  in  the 
whole  and  iu  every  part,  it  secures  to  us  greater 
advantages  than  those  which  are  guaranteed  to  us 
by  the  Constitution,  I  shall  prefer  Confederation 
to  all  other  changes. 

I  am  bound  to  declare  that  this  way  of  look- 
ing at  the  question,  in  the  mouth  of  August 
last,  has  undergone  no  change  iu  my  mind, 
since  I  heard  the  explanations  given  by  the 
members  of  the  Administration.  The  skill 
which  they  have  evinced  certainly  does 
them  gi  eat  honor,  but  neither  the  arguments 
of  Ministers,  nor  those  of  the  members  of 
the  House  who  support  the  scheme,  have 
convinced  me ;  and  I  rely  on  being  able  to 
show  in  my  remarks  wiiat  are  the  grounds  of 
my  opposition,  and  to  justify,  according  to  my 
way  of  looking  at  it,  the  responsibility  which  I 
undertake  in  opposing  a  project  which  has 
found  such  powerful  supporters  in  this  House. 
I  trust  I  sliall  be  able  to  show,  first,  the 
inexpediency  of  a  constitutional  change ; 
second,  the  hostile  object  of  Confederation; 
third,  the  disastrous  consequences  of  the 
adoption  of  the  project  of  Confederation. 
The  inexpediency  of  a  constitutional  change 
must  be  perfectly  evident  to  any  one  who 
considers  for  a  moment  the  present  prosperity 
of  Canada,  and  who  takes  the  trouble  to 
examine  the  progress  made  by  United 
Canada  since  1840.  The  Hon.  Attorney 
Generul  East  says  that  "the  union  has  done 
its  work."  Jiut  is  that  quite  certain  ? 
When  wo  compare  the  past  wit^-  the  present, 
have  we  not  reason  to  be  proud  of  our  growth 
since  i  84U,  and  of  the  fact  that  within  the 
past  twcnty-tive  years,  our  progress,  both 
social  and  matt  rial,  has  kept  pace  with  that 
of  the  fir^t  nations  iu  the  world  ?  During 
iht>  past  twenty-five  years  we  have  progressed 
politically  in  a  manner  uuprecodouted  iu 
colonial  history  ;  and  Canada  has  furnished 
a  magnificent  instance  of  tiie  good  re>ult  of 
responsible  government  in  an  English  colony, 
notwithstanding  diversity  of  -races  and 
religions.  Iu  1840,  we  had  just  terminated 
a  gloriou.s  struggle,  during  which,  uuf'ir- 
tunately,    many     lives     had    been     lost — 


587 


struggle  undertaken  in  order  to  secure 
responsible  government,  which  had,  up  to 
that  time,  been  refused,  and  which  was  then 
accorded  us  as  the  reward  of  the  straggle. 
At  that  period  Lower  Canada  was  united  as 
one  man ;  she  had  forwarded  to  England 
petitions,  beating  60,000  signatures,  asking 
for  responsible  government.  We  then  had 
in  our  ranks  men  who  did  not  shrink  from 
the  struggle,  men  accustomed  to  resist 
oppression,  men  who  had  grown  up  in  the 
midst  of  a  strife  with  an  arrogant  minority, 
which  sought  to  overrule  the  majority;  and 
these  were  the  great  men  who  secured  the 
triumph  of  our  nationality,  and  upheld  the 
rights  of  Lower  Canada,  by  securing  respon- 
sible government  at  the  same  time  that  the 
union  was  forced  upon  us.  Let  us  now  see 
the  result  of  their  labors.  Is  it  true  that 
we  have  progressed  both  socially  and  ma- 
terially since  that  period  ?  Any  one  who 
reflects  on  what  Canada  was  in  1840,  and 
what  it  is  in  1865,  cannot  but  admit  that  we 
have  progressed  in  a  degree  almost  unpre- 
cedented in  the  history  of  the  prosperity  of 
nations  ;  that  we  have  immensely  extended 
our  territory,  by  clearing  away  the  forest ; 
that  our  population  has  increased  in  a 
wonderful  manner,  that  that  population  is 
prosperous  and  contented,  and  that  we  have 
progressed  materially  and  socially  in  a 
manner  heretoforce  unprecedented  under  the 
colonial  system.  In  the  social  order,  let  us 
examine,  first,  our  legislation  and  system  in 
municipal  matters.  Can  a  more  perfect 
system  be  found  anywhere  ?  Has  not  every 
locality  ili  the  powers  necessary  for^effecting 
all  improvements  of  real  necessity?  It  is 
since  the  union  that  we  have  perfected  this 
system,  and  that  we  have  endowed  our  rural 
districts  with  the  means  of  effecting  all  im- 
provements they  may  desire,  and  particularly 
as  regards  road  matters  and  the  making  of 
new  roads,  in  order  to  facilitate  the  transport 
of  farm  produce  to  market.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  I  need  not  dwell  on  the  progress  we 
have  made  and  the  reforms  we  have  carried 
out,  as  regards  legislation.  That  which 
had  chiefly  contributed,  from  the  first  estab- 
lishment of  English  rule,  to  arrest  our  pro- 
gress in  this  respect  was  the  Legislative 
Council  of  the  former  Legislature,  and  that 
which  existed  from  the  union  up  to  1856. 
Since  that  period  have  we  not  obtained  an 
elective  Legislative  Council,  and  must  not 
our  greatest  reforms  be  considered  the  con- 
sequence ?  With  the  union  and  responsible 
government,  did  we  not  also  secure  the  I'ight 


of  being  represented  by  French-Canadian 
fellow-countrymen  in  the  Executive  Coun- 
cil ?  And  since  then  have  we  not  enjoyed 
all  the  advantage  of  a  system  of  government 
under  which  the  people  can,  not  only  ex- 
press their  wants,  but  enforce  their  wishes  ? 
These  are  reforms  of  the  highest  importance, 
but  we  have  obtained  yet  more.  When,  in 
1840,  the  union  of  the  Canadas  took  place, 
landed  property  in  Lower  Canada  was  sub- 
jected to  the  feudal  system,  which  had  been 
introduced  with  all  its  features  derogatory 
to  the  dignity  of  man,  with  all  its  charges 
upon  property,  and  all  its  vexations  for  the 
censitaire.  tFnder  that  system  no  property 
whatever  could  change  hands  without  being 
submitted  to  a  heavy  charge  in  the  form  of 
lods  et  ve.ates  for  the  benefit  of  the  seignior, 
and  to  cens  et  rentes  which  considerably 
reduced  its  value.  With  the  political  rights 
conferred  on  us  by  the  union,  the  seigniorial 
system  of  necessity  disappeared,  giviog  us 
property  in  freehold,  the  same  as  in  the 
neiofhbouriu"-  States    and    in    all    civilized 

o  o 

nations.  It  is  also  since  the  union  that  we 
have  consolidated  our  laws ;  that  we  have 
created  a  system  of  public  instruction 
which  imparts  the  blessings  of  education 
to  the  most  remote  parts  of  the  province. 
At  the  present  moment  we  have  a  school 
system  which  does  honor  to  the  country,  and 
the  intelligent,  however  poor  they  may  bo, 
can,  almost  without  charge,  acquire  an  edu- 
cation. Now,  each  village,  each  concession 
has  its  school,  and  the  child  of  the  back- 
woodsman dwelling  in  the  midst  of  the  forest, 
can  there  obtain  a  degree  of  elementary 
instruction  sufficient  to  enable  him  to  enter 
upon  a  career  of  honor  and  fortune,  should 
his  talents,  his  industry  and  his  energy  fit 
him  for  playing  a  part  in  politics,  in  the 
sciences,  in  the  arts  or  in  the  ranks  of  the 
clergy  of  his  country.  It  is  a  remarkable 
fact,  Mr.  Speaker,  and  one  which  I  deem 
it  right  to  mention,  that  the  majority  of  the 
notable  men  who  have  attained  seats  on  the 
judicial  bench,  in  the  Ministry  and  even  in 
the  Episcopal  chair,  came  forth  from  our 
humble  country  homes,  and  qualified  them- 
selves in  our  educational  institutions,  where 
instruction  is  aff'orded  all  but  gratuitously,  by 
dint  of  talent,  perseverance,  study  and  indus- 
try. It  was  the  pressure  of  want  in  the 
family  homestead  that  in  many  cases  created 
in  the  breasts  of  our  most  eminent  public 
men,  the  eager  desire  of  attaining  a  high 
position  by  means  of  study  and  labor.  Since 
the  union  our  system  and  means  of  public 


588 


instruction    have  made   immense  progress. 
Before  the  union  we  had  no   Catholic   uni- 
versity in  the  country      Young  men  intend- 
ing  to   enter   the   liberal  professions  were 
compelled,    instead    of    following   a  regular 
course,  to  content  themselves  with  what  they 
could  acquire  in  the  office  of  fheir  patrons, 
who  were  not  in  all  cases  competent  for  the 
task   they  ur  dertook,  or  else  to  go  abroad  at 
great  expense   for  many  years,  in  order  to 
obtain  in  England  or  France  a  certificate  of 
qualification.     To-day  we  have  in  Lower  and 
in  Upper  Canada  universities   rivalling  Eu- 
ropean universities  of  the  same  class,  and  we 
have  also  a  body  ot  young  students,  who, 
fifteen  or  twenty  years  hence,  will  give  proof 
of  the  excellence  of  our  university  system, 
and  of  the  high  curriculum  of  studies  these 
institutions    have   now    rendered    universal. 
Now,  in  face  of  the  degree  of  progress  I  have 
just  referred  to,  in  the  social  order,  can  it  be 
truly  said  that  the  union   has  run   its  day, 
when  all  these    marvels   are   its   creation  ? 
When  we  are  stronger  and   better  educated 
than  we  were  twenty  years  ago ;  when  we 
have  new  political  rights  ;  when  we  have  a 
free    right  to  the  soil,  and   when   we  have 
created  a  system  of  public  instruction   such 
as  we  now  enjoy,  can  it  be  said  that  the  union 
has  done  its  work,  and  that  it  must  be  broken 
up  ?  For  my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  not  pre- 
pared to  support  that  assertion.  The  union  has 
been  for  us  a  great  means  of  progress,  since 
it  has  enabled  us  to  secure  all  these  results 
in  the  social  order.    The  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral East  has  told  us  that  Confederation  will 
procure  us  material  advantages  still  greater, 
and  that  that  is  all  we  want.     I  deny,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  material  in  teres- ts  form  the 
sole  ambition  of  the  French-Canadian  popu- 
lation.    We  attach  a  iar  higher  importance 
to  the  preservation   of  our  own  institutions. 
But  even  as  regards  material  interests,  apart 
from  the  advuutages,    in   the    social   order, 
derived  I'rom  the  union,  we  have  still  a  vast 
field    before  us  as  regards   the  progress  we 
have    made  since    1840.       In   order    to    see 
what  the  union  has   done  in  this  respect,  it 
is  sufficient  to  look  at  our  system  of  railroads, 
and  above  all,  at  the  great  Grand  Trunk  lino 
from  Sarnia  to  llivierc  du  Loup,  which  has 
increased  our  commerce   tenfold,  opened  our 
dense  forests  to  colonization,  and  multipli^^d 
our  resources  to  an  incalculahle  extent ;   it  is 
sufficient  to  look  at  our  ports  (if  Montreal 
and  Quebec  during  the  season  of  navigation, 
filled   with   vast  forests  of  shipping,  to  t-'ce 
our  trans-atlantic  steamers  bearing  ofl'  weekly 


the   products  of  our  country  to   the  most 
distant  European  markets,  in  exchange  for 
the  articles  of  import  we  require.     And  if 
we  ascend  our  great  River  St.  Lawrence,  what 
do  we  see  ?     We  find  canals,  which  in  their 
dimensions,  the  materials  of  which  they  are 
constructed,  and  in  their  extent,  are  unsur- 
passed iu  any  part  of  the  world.     I  main- 
tain, Mr.  Speaker,  that  there  is  nothing  to 
be  found  in   Europe  to  compare  with  our 
artificial  water  communications.   In  England, 
for  instance,  the   canals  are  only  miserable 
gutters,  and  the  little  boys,  in  rowing  their 
boats,  can  touch  both  sides  at  once  with  the 
ends  of  their  oars.     Here  our  canals  pass 
through   the   whole   country,   and    connect 
the    most    remote    parts    of    it    with    the 
markets  of  Europe.      And,    in  fact,  a  ship 
of    tour    hundred    tons    burden    can    now 
sail    from    Chicago,    cross    the    ocean,    and 
discharge  her  cargo  in  the  docks  at  Liver- 
pool.    The  union  which  has  given  us  such 
canals,    such    railways,     has    not    run     its 
day,  has  not   done   its   work,  as   the  Hon. 
Attorney     General     East     pretends.      On 
the    contrary,    with    such    means  as  these, 
we   are   justified   in   anticipating  from   the 
union  still  neater  results  in  the  future.     If 
we  look  at  our  colonization,  we  behold  the 
forest  receding  before  the  axe  of  the  settler, 
the  products  of  our  land  increased  tenfold, 
and  our  settlers  locating  in  advance  of  the 
surveyor    on   our    wild    lands.      What    the 
union   has  already   done  for  us  is  certainly 
great,  but  the  advantages  it  has  in  store  for 
us  are  still  greater,  if  we  know  how  to  avail 
ourselves  of  the  means  it  places  at  our  com- 
mand.    Therefore  it  is  that   I  do  not  think 
the  union   has  done  its  work,  but  that,  on 
the   contrary,   it    will  yet  secure  our  pros- 
perity.     And    hence  it  is    that   I   wish   to 
preserve    the    union     and     remain    under 
allegiance  to    Her    Most   Gracious   Majesty 
the  Queen  of  England,  and  refuse  to  accept 
constitutional  changes  which  must  of  neces- 
sity imperil  our  future  as  a  nation.     (Hear, 
hear.)     it  has  often   been  said   that  Lower 
Canada  was  a  drag  on  Upper  Canada,  retard- 
ing her  advancement  in   the  march  of  pro- 
gress,   and    tliat   a    new    Constitution    was 
necessary.     I  deny  the  justice  of  the  accusa- 
tion, and  I    maintain    that  such    a   charge 
could   only  emanate  from   Upper   Canadian 
fanaticism.     True,  the  French-Canadian  race 
has    been    characterized     at    Tlt)<"onto    by    a 
Governor  General  as  an  "inferior  race,"  but 
the  insult  thus  oflTored  to  Lower  Canada  has 
not  a  single  fact  to  bear  it  out.     Moreover, 


589 


I  am  happy  to  bring  forward  the  testimony 
of  the  Hon.  Finance  Minister  (Hon.  Mr. 
GtALt)  to  refute  these  assertions,  to  answer 
these  insults,  and  to  prove  that  the  prosperity 
of  Canada  is  due  to  the  active  co-operation 
of  the  French-Canadians — not  only  in  the 
Exec;itive,  but  in  the  Legislative  Assembl3\ 
In  a  letter  written  from  London  in  i860, 
the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  says  : — 

From  1849  up  to  this  day,  the  French  Canadian 
majority  has  been  fairly  represented  in  the  Minis- 
try, and  it  is  with  its  powerful  co-operation  and 
the  part  it  has  taken  in  initiating  every  measure, 
and  the  support  of  its  votes  in  Parliament,  that 
all  great  reforms  have  been  realized. 

Well,  if  it  be  true  that  the  French-Canadian 
members  of  the  G-overnment,  since  1849, 
have,  by  their  unceasing  efforts,  obtained  the 
realization  of  these  reforms,  why  is  it  now 
sought  to  destroy  the  Constitution  under 
which  they  were  obtained,  and  to  create  a 
new  state  of  things  which  will  diminish  that 
influence  which  we  now  enjoy  ?  It  is  bo- 
cause,  notwithstanding  our  material  pros- 
perity, the  old  aggression  of  race  against 
race,  the  former  state  of  antagonism  and 
ill-will,  has  not  disappeared.  The  end  pro- 
posed to  be  attained  by  the  Grovernment  in 
making  these  changes  is  a  vast  and  noble 
end,  I  admit.  It  is  the  creation  of  an  im- 
mense Empire,  which  will  redound  to  our 
glory  and  to  that  of  England.  But  it  seems 
to  me  that  this  will  not  be  the  necessary 
result  of  the  means  which  are  being  taken 
to  attain  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Whenever  the 
great  measures  of  reform  to  which  I  have 
already  referred  have  been  submitted  to 
Parliament,  we  have  peen  public  men  devote 
themselves  exclusively  to  these  measures, 
and  labor  for  their  realization.  We  have 
seen  parties  arrayed  for  or  against  these 
great  questions — the  abolition  of  the  Seigni- 
orial Tenure,  the  election  of  the  members 
of  the  Legislative  Council,  the  construction 
of  our  railways  and  canals,  &c.  In  view  of 
these  great  questions,  there  was  no  room  for 
the  contemptible  personal  considerations, 
and  the  miserable  wrangling  of  the  church 
door ;  but  as  soon  as  these  great  reforms 
were  obtained,  there  was  no  longer  any 
ground  for  opposition  to  the  G-overnment  on 
these  subjects;  yet  subjects  for  the  exhibi- 
tion of  discontent  and  opposition  had  to  be 
devised,  with  the  view  of  attaining  power, 
and  of  satisfying  individual  ambition.  They 
then  addressed  themselves  to  the  prejudices 
of  race  and  religion.     A  cry  was  raised  in  Up- 


per Canada  that  French-Canadian  domination 
could  no  longer  be  endured,  and  that  an  end 
must  be  put  to  it.     No  heed  was  taken  of 
the  progress  that  had  yet  to  be  made,  but  it 
seemed  as   though    nothing  required  to  be 
done  in  order  to  attain  succesp,  but  to  destroy 
the  national  character   of  a  large  section  of 
Canada.     They  complained  of  French  domi- 
nation, the  influence  of  the  clergy,  and  of  the 
great    number   of  religious    institutions    in 
Canada ;  and  what  was  the  remedy  proposed 
to  put  an  end  to  all  these  evils  which  Upper 
Canada    could    no    longer    tolerate?     The 
hon.  member  for  South  Oxford  (Hon.  Mr. 
Brown)   was   imported,    and   brought   out 
here  from  Scotland,  to  cast  the  flaming  torch 
of  discord  between  the  two  populations,  and 
to  inflame  them   one   a2:ainst  the  other.     I 
emagine  that  since  that  time  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Buchanan  must  have  more  than  once  rearret- 
ted  this  importation,  which  was  not  quite  in 
the  regular  line  of  his  commercial  operations. 
And  when  this  gentleman  had  been  imported, 
who  has  been   the  cause  of  all  our  dissen- 
sions up  to  the  present  t'me,  parties  were 
organized  under  his  command  as  they  are 
this  day.     To   diminish   or  destroy  the  in- 
fluence of  the  French-Canadiaiis  in  Parlia- 
ment, the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford 
raised   a   clamour  for   representation  based 
upon  population,  which  was   reechoed  from 
oiie    end    of   Upper   Canada   to   the   other. 
These  cries,  the  offspring  of  fanaticism,  were 
rejected   by  Lower  Canada  with  unanimity 
on  the  part  of  our   public  men.     The  hon. 
member    for    South    Oxford,    finding    that 
this  cry  for  representation  based   on  popu- 
lation   was  a    magnificent   war-horse,  made 
use    of  it   to   form    a    party.      Since  that 
period  he  has  allowed  nothing  to  stand  in 
his  way.     He  has  calumniated  every  public 
man    and  all    the    institutions    which  were 
held    in    respect     by    the    inhabitants    of 
Lower  Canada ;  he   has   attacked,  with  the 
greatest   fury,  all    that   was   dear  to   us   as 
Frenchmen    and    Catholics ;     and    by    this 
means  he  gained  his  object;  and   we   have 
seen  all  the  western  farmers,  all  the  inhabit- 
ants of  Canada  West,  cry  out  that  here  we 
were  all  under  the  domination  of  the  clergy, 
and  that  the  English  and  Protestant  popula- 
tion ought  not  to  submit  to  so  heavy  a  yoke. 
He   knew   that   the   English    element   was 
fanatic  and  aggressive,  and  by  means  of  this 
cry  the  then   leader  of   the  Opposition  in 
LTpper    Canada    succeeded    in     forming     a 
phalanx  so  strong,  that  Lower  Canada  has 
been  compelled  to  yield  some  portion  of  the 


590 


ground  which  she   had   conquered  in   her 
str;7ggJes  of  former  days.     I  do  not  believe 


that  there  is  a  single   member  for  Lower 
Canada   v  ho   would   wish    to    c'lange   our 
present  Constitution   in   the    manner    now 
proposed,  were  he  not  forced  to  it  by  Upper 
Canida.      We  are,  then,  about  to  give  up 
some  of  our  franchises  and  our  rights   in 
this   new    struggle    against    the    spirit    of 
encroachment  and  domination  manifested  by 
the    Engl  sh    race.       Hon.     members     who 
support  the  measure  will  toll  you  that  they 
are  giving  up  a  part  of  our  rights,  in  order 
that  what  remains  may  be  saved  from  destruc- 
tion, and  that  they  may  not  lose  all  they  now 
enjoy,  before   any   lengthened  period   shall 
have  elapsed.     But  was  this  clamor  in  favor 
of   representation     based    upon   population 
sincere  on  the  part  of  those  who  used  it  as 
a  means  of  attacking  us  ?    Was  it  in  reality 
a    remedy   for    the    evils   of    which    they 
complained  ?     No,  Mr,  Speaker,  I  do  not 
think  it  was.  It  was  simply  an  electoral  plat- 
form, by  which  to  attain  power  and  consum- 
mate the  encroachment  upon  our  rights  con- 
templated by  the  leaders  of  the  movement.  I  do 
not  deem  it  necessary  to  repeat  here  all  the 
arguments  brought  to  bear  against  the  de- 
mand for   representation  by  population,  in 
eighty  speeches  delivered  in   1860,  during 
the  discussion  of  that   exciting   question ; 
but  I  remember  that  debate  with   all  the 
more  pleasure,  that   the  French-Canadians 
shewed  that  they  retained  some  vestiges  of 
firmness  in  the  day  of  battle,  and  of  perse- 
verance in  the  maintenance  of  our  rights, 
which  our  fathers  had  so  often  manifested. 
On  that  occasion  the  Hon.  Attorn,  y  General 
East    (Hon.    Mr.    Cartier)    deserved   the 
approbation  of  his  country  for  the  resistance 
he  made  to  that  unjust  demand  on  the  part 
of  Upper    Canada,   with    that    energy   and 
tenacity  he  is  so  well  known  to  display ;  he 
was    the    champion    of  our  rights.      Why, 
then,  docs  he  to-day  come  down  and  propose 
a  compromise  with  his  opponents  of  those 
days?     Is  it  just  at  the  moment  when  the 
leaders    of  the   Upper  Canadian  Opposition 
had,  by  entering  the  xMacdonald-Sicotte 
Government,  absolutely  rejected  the  principle 
of    repr.'scntation    based    upon    population, 
that  he  should  abandon  the  struggle  ?     Is  it 
at  the    noment  the  Macdonalu-Sicotte 
Government  had  obtained  separate  schools 
for  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada,  that  the 
party  led  by  the  honorable  member  for  South 
Oxford   was  to   be  dreaded  1*     Is  it  at  the 
moment  when  the  law  providing  separate 


schools  for  the  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada 
was  the  subject  of  a    triumph,  which   the 
Hon.    Attorney    General    had    never    suc- 
ceeded in  obtaining  during  the  whole  time 
he    has    been    in    power,   that    the    Hon. 
Attorney  General  should  cease  from  further 
efforts,     throw    down    his    anus,   and    de- 
clare as  a  French-Canadian  that  we  could 
no   longer  hold    the   breach,  and   that  we 
must  make  concessions  to  Upper  Canada  ? 
Did  not  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Adminis- 
tration   make    a  close    question   of    repre- 
sentation by  population  ?    Were  not  all  the 
members  of  that  Government  bound  to  oppose 
it?  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  Hon.  Attcrney- 
General  East  was  guilty  of  a  grievous  wrong, 
when    he  defeated   that   Government  by  a 
hostile  majority  composed   of  French-Cana- 
dians.    It  was  after  that  hostile  vote  that 
Upper  Canada  insisted  on  her  right  to  renew 
her  claims  to  representation  based  on  popu- 
lation, and  that  we  are  compelled  to-day  to 
make    coQcessions.       For     my    part,    Mr. 
Speaker,  I  have  never  been  convinced  of 
the  sincerity  of  those  who  made   use  of  the 
cry  for  representation   based  on  population, 
for    I    have    never    seen    any    other   means 
employed  to  obtain  the   aid  of  the  western 
farmers  in  securing  more  easily  the  reins  of 
power.     Has  the  principle  of  representation 
based  on  population  ever  served  as  the  basis 
of  a  government   having  monarchical  ideas, 
like  those  which  actuate  the  existing  Govern- 
ment ?     Now  we  are  seeking  for  a  Confeder- 
ation for  which  there  is  no  precedent — not  a 
Confederation  like  those  to  be  found  in  other 
countries  which  have  adopted  that   form  of 
government,   but  a  monarchical  Confedera- 
tion.    (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  sought  to  retain 
the  English  Constitution,  and  yet  it  is  assert- 
ed  that  representation    by  population   is  a 
just  principle,  and  that  it  must  be  extended 
to  Upper  Canada.     Does  not  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  East  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartier) 
remember  the  arguments  he  urged  in  1860 
against  this  principle  ?  Did  he  not  then  declare 
with  the  view  of  showing  that  the  principle 
was  neither  a  just  one  nor  one  recognized 
in  the  British  Constitution,  that  if  it  were 
applied  to  the  British  Parliament  the  city 
of  London  alone  would  havetliirty  members 
instead  of  sixteen,  and   that  Scotland  would 
send  many  more    members   to   Parliament 
than  she  does  now  ?     Did  he  not  assert  that 
rotten  boroughs,  containing  only  a  few  hun- 
dred   inhabitants,    had   one   representative, 
and   that  counties    containing    100,000   in- 
habitants had  no  more  ?     Have  these  argu- 


591 


ments,  then  so   full  of  power,  lost  all  their 
force  and  value  to-day  ?  Have  tbey  become 
futile  since  the  alliance  of  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  East  and  the  hon.  member 
for  South  Oxford  ?     Can  they  no  longer  be 
used    to    save    our    Constitution    and    our 
liberties?     How  can  the  party  which   has 
so  long  been  kept  together  by  its  oppositioo 
to  the  principle  of  representation  by  popula- 
tion, say  to-day  that  it  is  a  just  principle, 
and  that  it  must  be  conceded  ?     1  confess, 
Mr.   Speaker,   that   I    cannot   understand 
why    we   should   concede    to-day   what    we 
refused  in  1860.     It  is  true  that  I  do  not 
possess  the  experience  of  the  hon.  gentlemen 
who  now   occupy  the   Ministerial    benches, 
and  that,  perhaps,  it  may  be  wiser  to  bend 
to-day  than   to  be  broken   to-morrow ;    but 
when  I  study  the  history  of  the  past,  when 
I  look  at  things   as   they   are,   and  look  for- 
ward to  the  future  which  is  now  proposed 
for  us,    T   only   see  in  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation a  remedy  which  is  more   violent 
than    the    disease,    and    which,   instead    of 
removing  the  di&culties   it  is  proposed  to 
eradicate,  will  only  have  the  efiect  of  pro- 
ducing   results    the    most    unfavorable    to 
the   peace  and   prosperity    of  our   country. 
I    state  1     then,   Mr.  Speaker,    that    the 
question   of   representation   by    population, 
which  has  been  the  principal  cause  of  the  Con- 
fcucration  scheme,  was   excluded   from  the 
political   programme    of   the    Macdonald- 
Sicotte  Government,  and    that   the  Upper 
Canada    majority,    the    leaders    of   which, 
throughout  their  whole  political  career,  had 
so  loudly  demanded  this  concession  in  favor 
of  Upper  Canada,  had  bound  itself  not  to 
raise  that  exciting  question  within  the  halls 
of  the  Legislature,  at  least  during  the  exist- 
ence of  the  Macdonald-Sicott;   Ministry. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  stated  that,  thanks  to  the 
patriotic  firmness   of    that    Administration, 
Lower  Canada  was  enabled  for  two  years  to 
live  in  peace  and  enjoy  the  fruits  of  a  tran- 
quillity unknown  for  ten  years  previous,  and 
during  two  sessions  the  question  of  represen- 
tation based  on  numbers  ceased  !o  be  a  sub- 
ject of  strife  an  1  fanatical  attack  on  the  part 
of  Upper    Canada.     (Hear,   hear.)     It  was 
at  that  period  that  the  honorable  member 
for  South  Oxford  asked  for  a  committee  to 
enquire  as  to  the  means  of  settling  the  sec- 
tional difficulties,   by  efi^ecting  a  change  in 
the  basis  of  the  present  Constitution.    (Hear, 
hear.)      Well,    Mr.    Speaker,    what  took 
place  then  ?     We  saw  that  able  speaker,  that 
indefatigable  and  powerful  advocate  of  the 


claims  of  Upper  Canada  against  the  Lower 
Canada  section,  unable  to  find  in  this  House 
more  than  forty  men  prepared  to  support 
him  in  his  unjust  demand  for  a  constitutional 
change  which  the  present  Administration  are 
about  to  grant.     (Hear,  hear.)    We  saw  that 
powerful  politician  humbled,  and  giving  up 
in  despair  all  hopes  of  succeeding  with  the 
House — and,  for  my  part,   Mr.  Speaker,  I 
must  say  that  I  felt  pained  at  his  position 
— askintr    a    leave  of    absence    in  order   to 
avoid  a  humiliating  defeat,  and  returning  to 
his  home  to  lament  his   fall  and  the   loss  of 
an  influence  based  solely  on  fanaticism  and 
prejudice.       (Hear,   hear.)       Subsequently, 
Mr.  Speaker,  the  House  witnessed   an  act 
which  I  do  nut  desire  to   characterize  now  ; 
we  saw  the  Administration  which  had  the 
courage   to   chain  down  the  monster  of  re- 
presentation by  population,  overthrown  by  a 
French-Canadian   majority  I     (Hear,  hear.) 
Yes,  Mr.SPEAKER,  that  Liberal  government, 
which  had  afforded  so  much  security  to  our 
institutions  by  maintaining  intact  our  present 
Constitution,  was  defeated  by  a  French-Cana- 
dian majority  of  this  House.    I  do  not  intend, 
when    i    say   this,    to    attack   my   fellow- 
countrymen,   far  from  it ;    but  I   wish   to 
trace    the    parliamentary    history    of     our 
country,  and  I  do  not  hesitate  to  assert  that 
that    vote    gave  a    fatal   blow   to  our    in- 
fluence    as     French-Canadians,    and     that 
posterity  will  record  that  vote,  whicli  iS  now 
a  matter  of  history,  as  a  fatal  act   by  which 
our   public    men    sacrificed    to   party  spirit 
the  dearest  of  our  interests.      (Hear,  hear.) 
I  fearlessly  assert,  Mr.  Speaker,   that  for 
fifteen  years  our  affairs  had   not  been  admi- 
nistered by  xnen   more  sincerely  devoted  to 
our  interests  and  better  able  to  protect  the 
political    liberties,    the    interests    and    the 
institutions  of  Lower  Canada.     What  have 
we  seen  during  the  past  fifteen  years  in  this 
House  ?     We  have  witnessed   psrty  appeals 
to  prejudices  and  the  most  insultiiig  person- 
alities ;  and,  in    fact,  the    loweiiiig    of  the 
moral  status  of  our  national  representatives, 
as  the  natural   result.       We  have  seen  the 
men  best  qualified  to  enforce,  on  the  floor  of 
this  House,  the  rights  of  the  people,  refusing 
to  come   fbrwaru.   at  elections,  because  they 
saw  that  the  position  of  a  member  of  Parlia- 
ment no   longer   conferred    that   degi'ee    of 
dignity  and  position  which  made  it  an  object 
of  ambition  iu  better  times.     We  have  seen 
men  of  eminence,  who  had  labored  in  behalf 
of  the   interests    of  their   constituents  for 
many  long  years,  abandoning  their  political 


592 


career  ia  disgust,  and  retiring  to  the 
seclusion  of  their  homes.  Then  it  was  that 
we  saw  a  French-Canadian  majority  voting 
down  a  Ministry  whose  political  programme 
afforded  more  effectual  guarantees  for  Lower 
Canada  interests  than  that  of  any  previous 
government.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  a  blind 
and  paltry  party  spirit  induced  them  to 
sacrifice,  for  a  momentary  triumph,  the 
general  interests  of  their  country ;  and  the 
majority,  by  its  vote,  decreed  our  national 
downfall.  (Hear,heai.)  Well, Mr. Speaker, 
under  the  new  Government  we  found  repre- 
sentation by  population  again  made  a  subject 
of  discussion  in  our  Legislature;  and  now, 
there  is  no  denying  it,  that  unfortunate 
concession,  which  places  us  at  the  mercy  of 
Upper  Canada,  has  become  an  accomplished 
fact.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  stated,  just  now,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  the  hon.  member  for  South 
Oxford  was  unable  to  obtain  his  committee 
under  the  Macijonald-Sicotte  Adminis- 
tration, an  essentially  liberal  one.  (Hear, 
hear.)  On  reference  to  the  Journals  of  this 
House  of  that  period,  what  do  we  find  ? 
The  Ministry  which  succeeded  that  Grovern- 
ment  had  hardly  taken  possession  of  the 
Treasury  benches,  when  the  Hon.  Mr. 
BroWxV  again  came  before  the  House  ask- 
ing for  a  committee,  and  in  that  instance 
with  more  success.  I  had  the  honor  to  pro- 
pose an  amendment  to  his  motion,  but  my 
amendment  was  rejected,  and  amougst  the 
members  who  figure  in  that  unfortunate  divi- 
sion, I  find  the  names  of  the  Hon,  Minister  of 
Public  Works,  the  Hon.  Provincial  Secretary, 
and  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  East.  Mr. 
Speaker,  this  is  a  very  significant  fact,  and 
one  extremely  deserving  of  attention  at  the 
present  moment.  In  pressing  that  motion 
upon  the  House,  I  maintai'jed  that  our  policy 
was  to  act  on  the  offensive,  instead  of  merely 
defending  our.selves,  as  we  had  up  to  that 
time  done;  that  we  ought  to  unite  as  one 
man  to  obtain  the  re-enactment  of  the  proviso 
to  the  26th  clause  of  the  Act  of  Union,  which 
had  been  shamefully  struck  out  in  1856, 
when  we  obtained  an  elective  Legislative 
Council  (Hear,  hear.^  Now,  on  this  point, 
which  was  perfectly  clear,  we  foiiiid  these 
same  Ministers  voting  for  the  rejection  of 
the  amendment,  which  asserted  aright  sacred 
to  French-Canadians.  Did  not  this  vote 
imply  that  those  who  made  this  cowardly 
concession  were  prepared  to  yield  again  in 
the  proposed  constitutional  chauges  ?  Yes, 
Mr.  Si>eaker,  1  do  not  hesitate  to  assert,  that 


from  that  moment,  Upper  Canada  understood 
that  our  political  leaders,  who,  up  to  that 
time,  had  shown  an  unyielding  front,  were 
about  to  give  way.  And  when  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Browx  submitted  his  proposition  to  the 
House,  all  the  English  members  united  in  an 
overwhelming  majority,  and  he  carried  his 
point  successfully,  notwithstanding  that  all 
the  French-Canadian  members  voted  against 
it,  except  the  hon.  member  for  Rouville  (Mr. 
Poulin),  who  displayed  the  questionable 
courage  of  thus  committing  an  act  I  shall 
not  attempt  to  qualify.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
need  not  dwell  upon  the  consequences  of 
that  vote,  for  they  are  now  patent  to  the 
whole  country,  and  the  hon.  member  for 
South  Oxford  himself  has  told  us  in  this 
House  that  the  scheme  of  Confederation  was 
the  creation  of  his  constitutional  committee  ; 
that  the  appointment  of  that  committee  was 
the  first  step  in  the  direction  of  the  object 
for  which  lie  had  struggled  during  his  whole 
political  career,  and  that  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation now  before  the  House  was  an 
ample  reward  for  his  unremitting  efforts, 
and  a  complete  justification  of  the  princi- 
ples he  has  supported  in  the  struggle  be- 
tween Upper  Canada  and  Lower  Canada. 
Subsequently,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  Tach]6- 
Macdonald  Government  succumbed  on  a 
question  of  finance,  and,  finding  that  they 
could  not  sustain  themselves  without  the 
assistance  ol  the  Opposition,  that  same  Gov- 
ernment called  into  the  Cabinet  the  man  who 
had  proved  most  hostile  to  Lower  (Canadian 
interests,  and  with  whom  they  had  ever  lived 
in  unexampled  antagonism.  From  that 
alliance  resulted  the  scheme  of  Confederation 
which  is  now  submitted  to  us,  and  which 
concedes  the  principle  of  representation  based 
on  population.  Ought  the  Lower  Ca.iadian 
party  to  have  made  so  important  a  concession 
to  Upper  Canada  ?  I  am  prepared  to  estab- 
lish by  figures  that  that  question  contained 
within  itself  its  own  remedy  ;  and  tliose  who 
voted  in  favor  of  its  concession  are  in  no  way 
justifiable,  looking  at  the  question  in  any 
point  of  view  whatsoever.  The  future  held 
out  to  us  a  positive  assurance  that  the  grounds 
of  this  demand  would  no  longer  exist  at  a 
period  wliich  is  close  at  hand  !  When  we 
look  into  the  question  of  the  respective 
populations  of  the  two  Canadas,  we  shall 
observe  at  a  glance  that  that  of  Upper 
Canada  is  in  great  part  English  and  Protest- 
ant, and,  by  reference  to  the  last  conaus,  we 
shall  find  that  a  very  large  proportion  of  the 


593 


annual  increase  in  that  section  is  the  result 
of  emigration.  From  90,000,  which  was  the 
total  amount  during  the  single  year  1847, 
immigration  gradually  fell  to  10,000  in  the 
year  1800.  But  there  is  another  important 
fact  which  it  would  be  well  to  bear  in  mind; 
it  is  that  Lower  Canada,  which  increased 
slowly  at  first,  because  her  material  and  moral 
development  was  impeded  by  the  political 
institutions  under  which  she  was  governed, 
and  because  she  had  no  colonization  roads 
through  her  forests,  still  beheld  her  sturdy 
children  emigrating  from  their  native  soil 
to  the  United  States  in  search  of  daily  bread 
and  liberty.  The  increase  in  the  population 
of  Lower  Canada  was  slow  and  small  then; 
but  as  railways  were  built  and  highways 
were  opened,  the  population  was  found  to 
increase  in  nearly  the  same  proportion  as 
the  diminution  was  observed  to  be  going  on, 
in  respect  of  annual  increase,  in  Upper 
Canada.  I  maintain  further,  Mr.  Speaker, 
that  the  census  of  1S61  is  no  basis  from 
which  to  estimate  exactly  the  total  popula- 
tion of  the  two  sections  ;  that  census  is 
merely  a  tissue  of  errors  of  a  serious  nature, 
which  demonstrate  the  inaccuracy  of  the 
whole.  Thus  when  we  find  it  stated  that  at 
Three  Rivers  there  is  not  a  single  Catholic 
church ;  that  at  Hamilton  there  is  but  one ; 
that  in  the  year  1801  there  were  but  three 
vessels  built  in  Lower  Canada,  while  we  know 
that  at  Quebec  alone  more  than  sixty  were 
constructed,  we  may  with  perfect  safety  assert 
that  similar  inaccuracies  must  needs  have 
occurred  in  the  totals  of  the  populations  of 
the  two  sections.  We  know  that  in  Upper 
Canada  the  true  total  of  the  population  has 
been  greatly  exaggerated.  Did  not  all  their 
journals  declare  that  the  census  of  1861 
Tnust  indicate  a  very  large  total  population 
in  favor  of  Upper  Canada  over  Lower 
Canada  ?  7^nd,  accordingly,  the  result  shewed 
a  majority  of  nearly  300,000  souls  in 
favor  of  that  province.  To  such  an  extent 
was  the  number  of  the  living  increased,  and 
the  number  of  the  dead  diminished,  that  the 
total  number  of  living  children  under  oneyear 
old  was  8,000  more  than  the  total  number 
of  births  in  the  year.  (Hear,  hear.)  lam 
quite  willing  to  admit  that  the  climate  of 
Upper  Canada  is  most  salubrious  and  highly 
favorable  to  the  development  of  that  part  of 
the  population  of  a  less  age  than  one  year, 
but  even  then  there  is  some  difficulty  in 
understanding  how  it  is  that  in  twelve 
months  some  of  them  do  not  die,  and  how 

76 


there  can  be  8,000  more  of  less  than  a  year 
old  than  wore  born  during  the  preceding 
twelve  months.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
When  I  observe  such  results  accruing  from 
our  official  census,  I  am  compelled  to  believe 
that  it  is  inaccurate,  and  that  it  may  be 
quite  as  erroneous  in  respect  of  the  general 
population.  But  if  in  th,:;  census  the 
population  of  Upper  Canada  was  exagger- 
ated, in  the  case  of  Lower  Canada,  on  the 
contrary,  it  has  been  considerably  diminished. 
Here  our  farmers  have  always  stood  in  dread 
of  the  census,  because  they  have  a  suspicion 
that  it  is  taken  with  the  sole  object  of  im- 
posing some  tax,  or  of  making  some  draft  of 
men  for  the  defence  of  the  country.  Under 
these  circumstances,  I, consider  that  the 
diiference  between  the  totals  of  the  popula- 
tion of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  is  not  so 
well  proved  as  it  is  wished  to  have  us  believe 
that  it  is.  I  maintain  that  it  is  less  in  reality 
than  it  is  in  appearance,  and  that  the  figures 
of  the  census  are  not  sufficiently  accurate  to 
allow  of  our  taking  them  as  the  basis  of  a 
demand  for  constitutional  changes  of  so  im- 
portant a  character.  But  if  we  study  the 
increase  of  the  French-Canadian  population 
in  America,  we  shall  find  the  increase  of  the 
French-Canadians  to  have  been  1,700,000 
between  the  years  1760  and  1860,  the  total 
having  increased  tenfold  two  and  a  half  times 
in  that  period,  and  this  is  equivalent  to  3.40 
per  cent,  per  annum,  or  a  doubling  of  the 
population  in  twenty-one  years ;  otherwise 
an  increase  of  twenty-five  times  their  num- 
ber in  one  hundred  years.  The  increase,  since 
1860,  having  been  3.60  per  cent,  in  Lower 
Canada,  these  figures  shew  that  the  natural 
increase  in  the  Lower  Canadian  population 
is  greater  than  it  is  anywhere  else.  In 
Upper  Canada  the  average  of  births  has 
been  3.40  per  cent,  per  annum,  and  in 
Lower  Canada  it  has  been  4.10  per  cent, 
per  annum ;  this  is  equivalent  to  a  greater 
relative  increase  of  20  per  cent,  in  favor 
of  Lower  Canada  over  Upper  Canada. 
If  a  calculation  is  made  of  the  progres- 
sive increase  of  the  French  population 
in  Lower  Canada,  from  1784  to  1851, 
the  following  results  will  be  arrived 
at:— 

Per  ct.  per  ann. 

Prom  1784  to  1831  the  increase  was  equal  to  2.60 
do.   1831  to  1844      do.  do.         to  3.20 

do.  1844  to  1851       do.  do.         to  4.25 

But  the   growth   of  population  that   would 
have  resulted  from  this  increase  has  been 


594 


diminished  by  emigration  to  the  United 
States.  The  difficulties  between  tlie  sec- 
tions of  the  province  have,  during  long 
years,  driven  our  youth  to  foreign  countries, 
and  that  is  why  that  considerable  increase 
does  not  appear,  by  the  census,  so  great  as  in 
reality  it  has  boen.  Thus  the  total  number 
of  French-Canadian  emigrants  to  the  United 
States  amounted,  in  184J:,  to  34,000;  from 
1844  to  1850  the  total  amounted  to  30,000; 
making,  iu  1-50,  a  graiul  total  of  64,000  of 
our  countrymen  who  had  passed  into  foreign 
lands.  With  such  an  emigration  going  on, 
it  is  clear  that  our  population  could  not  in- 
crease with  rapidity ;  but  now,  fortunately, 
the  movement  of  our  population  has  assumed 
a  contrary  direction,  Many  ftimilies  have 
already  returned  to  us,  whilst  many  others 
are  only  awaiting  a  favorable  opportunity  to 
return  to  the  country,  which  they  ought 
never  to  have  left.  The  French-Canadian 
population  in  the  United  States  is  slill  very 
considerable,  as  the  following  figures  will 
show :  in  the  St.ite  of  Vermont  there  are 
14,000  French-Canadians ;  in  the  State  of 
New  York  20,000 ;  iu  Ohio  and  Pennsyl- 
vania, 6,000;  in  Michigan,  30,000;  in  Illi- 
nois, 20,000;  in  Wisconsin,  12,000;  in 
Indiana,  5,000  ;  in  Minnesota,  15,000 — with- 
out taking  into  consideration  the  fact  that 
nearly  35,000  of  our  young  men,  besides,  are 
eni'olled  in  the  army  of  the  United  States. 
What  took  place  in  Canada  also  took  place 
in  Acadia,  where  the  French  population  also 
increased  in  a  manner  which  was  truly 
astonishing.  From  1707  to  1737  this  in- 
crease amounted  to  a  proportion  of  6  per 
cent,  per  annum  ;  in  thirty  years  the  total 
had  increased  fivefold.  It  continued  to 
increase  in  nearly  a  like  proportion  up  to 
1755,  the  memorable  date  of  the  deportation 
of  the  Acadians.  From  1755  to  1855  the 
Acadians  increased  tenfold  by  themselves, 
and  now  the  French-Acadian  population  in 
the  Maritime  Provinces  and  in  the  State  oi 
Maine  is  distributed  as  follows  : — 

Newfoiinclhmd 15,000 

Cape  15r('ton 1  G,000 

Prince  Edward  Island 15,000 

Nova  Scotia '. .  22,000 

New  Brunswick 25,000 

State  of  Maine 6,000 

Giving  a  total  of 9y,000 

Let  us  now  encjuire,  Mr.  Speakeh,  what 
the  annual  increase  has  been  iu  Upper  Ca- 
nada.    This  consideration  is   an   important 


one,  for  it  goes  to  prove  that  in  ten  years 
tlie  total  population  of  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  will  be  equal,  and  that,  consequently, 
the  constitutional  changes  resulting  from  the 
question  of  representation  based  on  popula- 
tion are  not  called  for: — 

In  1830  that  increase  was  10  per  ct.  per  annum. 

"  1832  do.  8.77  do. 

"  1842  do.  6.42  do. 

"1852  do.  5.62  do. 

"1861  do.  4.35  do. 

"  1865  it  will  probably  be  3.00  do. 

This  amounts  to  saying  that  in  thirty  years 
the  proportion  of  increase  has  diminished 
by  more  than  50  per  cent.,  and  that  diminu- 
tion of  annual  increase  has  been  consequent 
upon  the  diminution  of  immigration.  The 
following  figures,  which  shew  the  number  of 
immigrants  who  have  come  into  Upper 
Canada  since  the  year  1829,  shew  this 
clearly : — 

Years.  Immigration. 

1829  to  1833 167,697 

1834  to  1838 96,351 

18.39  to  1843 123,860 

1844 20,142 

1845 25,375 

1846 32,753 

1847 90,150 

1848 27,939 

1849 38,494 

1850 32,292 

1851 41,076 

1852 39,176 

1853 36,699 

1854 53,183 

1855 21^274 

1856 22,439 

1857 32,097 

1858 12,810 

1859 8,778 

1860 10,150 

1861 19,923 

1862 22,176 

1863 19,419 

1864 19,000 

In  1854  we  had  no  railways  as  we  have  to- 
day, and  consequently  the  European  emigra- 
tion which  was  directed  to  the  United  States 
did  not  pass  through  Canada,  as  it  does  now, 
towards  the  AVcstcrn  States.  In  1854  the 
inimigration  was  53,000,  and  all  who  landed 
in  Canada  settled  there  at  once  ;  butiu  18G4 
the  immigration  fell  to  19,000,  of  whom  not 
more  than  one  half  remained  in  the  country  ; 
tlie  remainder  went  on  to  the  Western  States. 
Thus  it  may  be  said  that  the  immigration, 
which  numbered  more  than  53,000  eouls  in 


595 


1854,  has  fallen  in  ten  years  to  8,000  only  for 
Upper  Canada,  whilst  in  Lower  Canada  we 
have   increased,   by  natural  progress,  in  the 
proportion  of  from  2.20  per  cent,  to  2.60  per 
cent,  during  the  same  period.  And  it  is  just  at 
the  time  that  our  population  is  increasing  in 
this  proportfon  that  it  is  proposed  to  grant  to 
Upper  Canada  representation  based  on  popu- 
lation.     Why  do  we  not  still  resist  ?     We 
are  told  that  if  we  wait   longer  the    dispro- 
portion  will   be   increased.     I  maintain,  ac- 
cording to  the  above  calculations,  and  in  view 
of  other  considerations  that  I  shall  by   and 
by  have  the  honor  to  submit  to  this  House, 
that  we  can  only  be  the  g;ainers  in  this  matter, 
because  the  proportion  of  our  natural  increase 
is  increasing,  while  that  of  immigration  is 
diminishing.     In  thirty   years,  from  1829  to 
1860,   942,735  immigrants  landed    on    our 
shores,  nearly  all  of  whom  settled  in  Upper 
Canada.     And  there  is  another  fact  to  which 
I  beg  to  call  the  attention  of  the  House,  and 
that   is,    that   the   Irish    emigration,    whioh 
amounted  in  1851  to  22,381,  diminished  dur- 
ing the  ten  following  years  to  376  in  1861, 
and  it  is  a  well  known  fact  that  it  was  this 
wholesale  deportation  from  the  Emerald  Isle 
which   has   made   the   population    of  Upper 
Canada  what  it  is  to-day.     But  it  is  not  ne- 
cessary to  consult  the  census  to  arrive  at  the 
conclusion  that  the  proportionate  difference  in 
the  increase  of  the   populations  of  the   two 
sections  of  the  province  is  only  due  to  the 
arrival  in  the  country  of  this  million  of  immi- 
grants.    If  we  study  the  proportion  of  births, 
or  of  the  natural  increase,  we  shall  see  that 
Lower  Canada  has  increased   its  population 
more  rapidly  than  Upper  Canada,   and  that 
there  are  more  births  in  proportion  in  our 
section  of  the  province.     As  these  artificial 
sources  of  increase  diminish  in  Upper  Canada, 
we  may  be  certain  that  the  equililbrium  will 
be  established  between  the  two  populations. 
There  is  yet  another  cause  which  must  con- 
tribute to  reestablish  this  equilibrium,  and  I 
find  it  in  an  ofiicial   report   written  by   the 
present  Honorable  Provincial  Secretary  (Hon. 
Mr.  McDougall)  when  he  was  Commissioner 
of  Crown  Lands.     The  cause  of  colonization 
has  attracted,  for  several  years  past,  the  special 
attention  of  our  clerGcy  and  of  the  influential 
inhabitants   of  the    country,    so   soon   as   it 
became  generally  known  that  the  increase  of 
the  population  in  Upper  Canada  would  lead 
very  soon  to  constitutional  changes,  having  for 
their  object  representation  based  upon  popula- 
tion,   with   all  its  disastrous   results  for  the 
minority.     Since  that  period  new  colonization 


roads  have  been  opened  for  the  surplus  popu^ 
lation  of  the  old  counties,  and  our  youth, 
instead  of  expatriating  themselves,  plunge 
into  the  forests  to  clear  the  land,  and  thus  to 
increase  the  strength  of  the  French  element. 
The  cause  of  the  diminution  in  the  increase 
of  Upper  Canada,  of  which  I  have  just  spoken, 
may  be  found  in  the  important  fact  that  the 
best  disposable  lands  are  nearly  exhausted — I 
do  not  mean  to  say  that  they  have  lost  their 
fertility,  but  that  they  are  nearly  all  occupied. 
We  require  no  better  proof  of  my  assertion 
than  the  report  of  the  Honorable  Commis- 
sioner of  Crown  Lands  for  1802.  from  which 
I  ask  permission  to  cite  the  following  para- 
graph : — 

It  will  be  observed  tha^  the  whole  quantity  of 
land  sold  during  the  past  year  is  less  by  252,471 
acres  than  in  18G1.  The 'falling  off  is  equal  to 
about  33i  per  cent.  The  fact  is  significant,  and 
suggests  enquiry  as  to  the  cause.  It  may,  I  think, 
be  attributed  to  the  commercial  and  monetary  de- 
rangements resulting  from  the  civil  war  in  the 
neighboring  country ;  to  the  retarding  influence 
of  that  war  apon  immigration,  and  to  the  dimin- 
ished means  of  purchasers  within  the  country  by 
reason  of  the  generally  deficient  harvest  of  1862. 
Another  cause  may  be  mentioned,  which,  in  an 
official  view,  is  more  important  than  either  of 
these,  because  its  infiueuce  is  not  accidental  or 
temporary.  It  is  the  fact  that  the  best  lands  of 
the  Crown  in  both  sections  of  the  province  hare 
already  been  sold.  The  quantity  of  really  good 
land  now  open  for  sale  is,  notwithstanding  recent 
surveys,  much  less  than  formerly,  and  is  rapidly 
diminishing.  The  new  surveys  in  Upper  Canada 
liave  added,  during  the  last  five  years,  no  less 
than  2,808,172  acres  to  the  land  roll  of  the  de- 
partment. The  addition  during  the  same  period, 
in  Lower  Canada,  was  1,968,163  acres.  Yet  it 
maybe  doubted  if  there  are  today  as  many  acres 
of  wild  laud  of  the  first  quality  at  t\  e  disoosal  of 
the  department  as  there  were  in  1857.  The  cler- 
gy, school  and  Crown  lands  of  the  western  penin- 
sula, the  most  desirable,  both  as  to  quality  and 
situation,  of  all  the  public  lands  of  the  province, 
are  mostly  sold  ;  the  few  lots  that  remain  are  gen- 
erally of  inferior  quality.  The  new  townships 
between  the  Ottawa  and  Lake  Huron  contain 
much  good  land,  but  they  are  separated  from  the 
settled  townships  on  the  St.  Lawrence  and  north 
shore  of  Lake  Ontario  by  a  rocky,  barren  tract, 
which  varies  in  Avidth  from  ten  to  twenty  miles, 
and  presents  a  serious  obstruction  to  the  influx  of 
settlers.  Moreover,  the  good  land  in  these  new 
townships  is  composed  of  small  tracts,  here  and 
there,  separated  from  each  other  by  rocky  ridges, 
swamps  and  lakes,  which  render  difficult  the  con- 
struction of  roads,  and  interrupt  the  continuity 
of  settlement.  These  unfavorable  circumstances 
have  induced  the  better  class  of  settlers  in  Upper 
Canada  to  seek,  at  the  ha;;d3  of  private  owners, 
for  lands  of  a  better  quality  and  more  desirable 


596 


location,  though  the  price  and  terms  of  sale  are 
more  onerous  than  for  the  lands  of  the  Crown. 

I  think  that  this  official  report  contains  a 
statement  of  great  importance  to  Lower  Ca- 
nada, and  which  it  is  desirable  should  be 
clearly  demonstrated  before  tvc  decide  whether 
we  ought  to  change  the  present  Constitution. 
As  the  population  of  Upper  Canada  is  no 
longer  sensibly  increased  by  immigration,  and 
as  the  natural  increase  of  the  population  of 
Lower  Canada  is  more  rapid  than  that  of 
Upper  Canada;  as  the  emigration  of  our 
countrymen  to  the  United  States  is  ceasing, 
and  as  the  best  lands  in  Upper  Canada  are 
occupied,  whilst  the  territory  of  Lower  Can- 
ada is  only  just  beginning  to  be  opened  up 
for  settlement,  I  see  xtp  reason  why  we  should 
make  such  haste  to  give  up  the  struggle  we 
have  so  successfully  maintained  up  to  the 
present  time,  and,  without  any  just  reason, 
grant  representation  by  population.  This  is 
what  is  said  in  the  same  report  by  the  pre- 
sent Hon.  Provincial  Secretary,  and  his  words 
agree  exactly  with  my  statements : — 

In  Lower  Canada  the  sales  in  1862  reached  a 
little  more  than  double  the  quantity  sold  in  Up- 
per Cauada.  The  discovery  of  copper  and  other 
minerals  in  the  Eastern  Townships  and  the  open- 
ing of  better  means  of  communication  have 
caused  a  considerable  influx  of  population  into 
that  part  of  Lower  Canada,  and  a  correspondmg 
increase  in  the  demand  for  unsold  public  lands. 
The  new  survej's  on  the  Kouthcrn  slope  of  the 
high  lands  which  border  the  St.  Lawrence  be- 
tween Quebec  and  Montreal,  have  developed  a 
very  considerable  quantity  of  good  land,  which  is 
being  rapidly  taken  up. 

And  what  is  the  consequence  of  this  fact  pointr 
ed  out  by  the  Hon.  Commissioner  of  Crown 
Lands  ?  It  is  that  if  the  public  lands  are  sold 
only  to  settlers,  so  soon  as  it  is  established  that 
the  quantity  of  lands  sold  in  Lower  Canada 
is  double  that  sold  in  Upper  Canada,  I  am 
justified  in  concluding  that  the  extent  cleared 
is  also  double,  and  as  a  necessary  consequence, 
that  the  population  must  be  increasing  in  the 
same  proportion.  Thence  I  conclude  that  tlie 
question  of  representation  based  upon  popula- 
tion tends  every  day  to  its  own  solution. 
Thus  we  have  a  man,  who  certainly  cannot  be 
accused  of  partiality  to  Lower  Canada,  and 
whose  extensive  knowledge  no  one  will  deny, 
declaring  officially  that  we  arc  increasing  in  a 
much  greater  proportion  than  Upper  Canada. 
And  it  is  at  the  very  moment  tliat  avc  are  on 
the  point  of  turning  the  scale  of  victory,  tjiat 
we  are  about  to  give  way  and  cease  i'rom  fur- 
ther effort.     Our  rising  generations  were  emi- 


grating to  the  Unite!  States  a  few  years  ago, 
because  we  had  no  colonization  roads  to  give 
them  access  to  the  forests  of  Lower  Canada,  as 
we  have  now ;  and  why  had  wo  them  not  ? 
Because  until  quite  recently,  the  Hon.  Minis- 
ter of  the  Department  of  the  Crown  Lands,  as 
well  as  the  Hon.  Minister  of  the  Department 
of  Agriculture  and  Emigration,  were  always 
Upper  Canadians.  Upper  Canada  always  un- 
derstood the  importance  of  those  departments 
as  regards  the  material  development  of  that 
section  of  the  province.  Accordingly,  all  the 
measures  of  improvement  were  in  favor  of  the 
western  section,  and  all  the  immigration  was 
carefully  directed  thither.  Now  that  we 
have  found  out  the  results  of  that  cleverly  de- 
vised policy,  the  Lower  Canadian  party  aro 
more  attentive  to  the  coloaizitiou  ot  our  wild 
lands,  and  we  find  the  clergy  and  all  our  politi- 
cal and  influential  men  secondincr  their  efforts. 
We  have  colonization  societies  in  every  quarter, 
and  the  result  of  their  labors  is  the  settlement 
and  occupation  of  our  public  lands  as  soon  as 
they  arc  surveyed.  Frequently  we  even  sec  the 
settlers  getting  ahead  of  the  parties  employed  iD 
opening  the  roads  through  the  forests.  These 
facts  are  important  enough  to  dc^rve  our 
serious  consideration,  more  especially  as  the 
report  of  the  Hon.  Provincial  Secretary  con- 
firms my  statements  in  every  particular.  The 
Canadian  families  now  in  the  United  States 
are  glad  to  return  among  us  to  aid  in  develop- 
ing the  resources  of  our  country,  and  if  the 
Government,  instead  of  making  changes  iu 
the  Constitution,  were  to  establish  a  vast 
system  of  colonization,  to  draw  hither  our 
fellow-countrymen  from  the  United  States,  and 
an  immigration  from  Europe  of  those ,  who 
own  a  common  origin  with  ourselves,  wo 
should  have  no  need  to  trouble  ourselves 
about  the  political  changes  now  proposed  to 
us,  of  which  the  object  is  evidently  to  destroy 
our  influence  in  America.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  intention  of  the  Confederation  scheme, 
we  are  told  by  the  Ministry,  is  the  Ibrmation 
of  a  vast  Enjpire,  bounded  by  the  Pacific  ocean 
on  one  side,  on  the  other  by  the  Atlautio 
ocean,  and  on  the  south  by  the  American 
Union,  while  on  the  north  it  would  extend  to 
the  Pole,  leaving  lUissiau  America  on  the 
west.  No  doubt  the  scheme  is  a  grand  one, 
magnificent  in  conception,  and  likely  to  t:iko 
with  the  ambitious  minds  of  tlio  most  aspiring 
men  in  British  North  America.  The  Oppo- 
sition perfectly  understands  tlic  noble  object 
of  the  promoters  of  the  Coul'c'lerati()n,  which 
it  is  proposed  to  establish  on  a  monarchical 
basis,  iu  opposition  to  the  Autericau    Union, 


597 


based  on  the  democratic  and  republican  prin- 
ciple ;  but  the  Opposition  is  also  aware  that 
this  creation  of  an  Empire  presents  difficulties 
of  an  important  character,  not  only  because  it 
is  starting  into  existence  in  opposition  to  the 
neighboriug  powerful  republic,  which  is  essenti- 
ally opposed  to' monarchical  institutions,  but  also 
because  the  differences  of  nationality,  religion 
and  sectional  interests  are  so  many  stumbling 
blocks  with  which  the  principal  provisions  of  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  will  come  in  contact. 
It  must  not  be  believed  that  the  Opposition 
ooly  oppose  the  scheme  because  they  do  not 
uuderstand  its  import.  On  the  contrary 
they  do  understand  it,  and  see  in  it  nothing 
but  provisions  of  a  nature  hostile  to  them. 
At  the  present  day,  with  sectional  equality, 
Canada  constitutes  but  a  single  people,  who 
have  tendencies  and  aspirations  in  common  ; 
but  under  Confederation  such  will  no  longer 
bo  the  case ;  we  shall  have  a  minority  op- 
posed to  a  majority,  the  aggressive  tendencies 
of  which  have  always  manifested  themselves 
whenever  the  power  of  numbers  was  in  their 
favor.  If  the  populations  of  all  the  provin- 
ces were  homogeneous ;  if  their  interests,  their 
ideas,  their  belief  and  their  nationality  were 
identical,  we  might  perhaps  be  more  disposed 
to  accept  the  by  no  means  judicious  provisions 
of  the  scheme  which  is  submitted  to  us.  But 
as  none  of  these  are  identical,  we  consider 
that  we  should  be  in  danger  if  we  did  accept 
them.  Formerly  France  possessed  all  this 
part  of  the  continent ;  the  settlers  of  that 
period,  the  farmers,  fishermen,  hunters  and 
trappers  travelled  over  the  whole  extent 
of  those  immense  possessions  which  were 
known  by  the  name  of  New  France.  At 
this  moment  what  remains  to  her  of  a 
teri'itory  that  Avas  equal  in  extent  to  Europe 
itself?  A  wretched  little  island  at  the  en- 
trance of  the  Gulf,  a  foothold  for  her  fisheries, 
and  a  few  acres  of  beach  on  the  coast  of  New- 
foundland. When  we  consider  that  fact, 
when  we  see  French  power  completely  des- 
troyed on  this  continent,  are  we  not  justified 
in  looking  closely  into  the  project  of  Consti- 
tution now  submitted  to  us,  which  has  for  its 
object,  I  repeat,  simply  to  complete  the  des- 
truction of  the  influence  of  the  French  race 
on  this  continent  ?  Has  not  the  past  taught 
us  to  dread  the  future  ?  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker, 
the  policy  of  England  has  ever  been  aggressive, 
and  its  object  has  always  been  to  annihilate 
us  as  a  people.  And  this  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation is  but  the  conrinued  application  of  th.it 
policy  on  this  continent ;  ifs  real  object  is 
nothing  but  the  annihilation  of  French  influ- 


ence in  Canada.  If  we  examine  history  in  » 
order  to  ascertain  whether  a  precedent  is  to 
be  found  for  the  course  of  action  adopted 
to-day,  we  shall  derive  a  valuable  lesson  from 
the  experience  of  the  past.  There  was  a 
period,  after  the  conquest  of  England  by  the 
Normans,  when  the  French  language  was  the 
general  and  official  language  of  thot  country, 
but  subsequently  the  conquerors  were  com- 
pelled to  adopt  the  language  of  the  vanquished. 
Tile  history  of  the  Parliament  of  England 
shews  that  up  to  1 425,  every  bill  introduced  ' 
in  the  Legislature,  without  a  single  exception, 
was  in  the  French  laniiuage.  But  at  that 
date  the  first  English  bill  was  presented  to  Par- 
liament ;  and  twenty-five  j^ears  later,  in  1450, 
the  last  French  bill  was  presented  in  the 
English  Parliament.  After  that  date  Ave  no 
longer  find  a  trace  of  the  French  language  in 
Parliament ;  twenty-five  years  had  sufficed  to 
do  away  with  it  completely.  There  is  an- 
other historical  fact  connected  with  the  politi- 
cal existence  of  a  people,  which  it  is  right  to 
recall.  We  know  how  long  Scotland  and 
Ireland  resisted  the  encroachments  of  England 
The  struggle  was  protracted  and  obstinate- 
But  these  two  nations  were  compelled  to  sue. 
cumb  to  political  encroachment,  under  the 
pressure  of  the  powerful  assimilating  tenden- 
cies of  the  English  nation.  But  let  us  see  what 
means  England  used  to  attain  her  ends.  Im- 
partial history  tells  us,  as  it  will  tell  of  the 
means  employed  to-day  to  annihilate  our  race 
on  this  continent.  History  records,  in  letters 
of  gold,  the  names  of  those  who  have  bravely 
struggled  for  the  lives  and  liberties  of  nations, 
but  it  also  holds  up  to  execration  the  memory 
of  those  who  barter  those  liberties  and  those 
rights  for  titles,  honor,  power,  or  gold.  We 
now  enjoy  responsible  government,  dearly 
earned  by  a  century  of  heroic  struggles,  and 
before  yielding  an  inch  of  the  ground  we 
have  conquered,  we  should  see  what  we  are 
likely  to  gain  by  the  proposed  constitutional 
changes.  Let  us  profit  by  the  experience  of 
the  countries  we  now  see  lamenting  the  loss  of 
their  political  rights  resulting  from  constitu- 
tional changes  similar  to  those  now  proposed 
to  Lower  Canada.  I  find  the  following  with 
reference  to  the  union  of  Scotland  with  Eng- 
land in  1706  :— 

Qiieeu  Anne  carried  out,  iu  170G,  a  project 
vainly  attempted  by  William  III.,  the  imioii  of 
England  and  Scotland  into  a  single  kingdom,  un- 
der the  dominion  of  Great  Britain.  The  uncon- 
trollable character  of  the  Scotch,  the  mutual  an- 
tipathy of  the  two  people,  and  the  constantly  re- 
curring difficulties  resulting  from  these  principles, 


598 


rendered  the  measure  highly  useful  at  the  same 
lime  that  they  increased  the  obstacles. 

Thus,  it  is  clear  that  the  antipathies  between 
the  two  races  produced  many  obstacles  to  the 
English  project,  and,  in  order  to  remove  these 
obstacles,  England  had  recourse  to  means 
precisely  similar  to  those  adopted  here  as  a 
preparation  for  Confederation,  namely,  the 
appointment  of  a  conference  of  commission- 
ers charged  with  the  preparation  of  the  Act 
of  Union,    Says  M.  Emile  de  Bonnechose  : 

These  commissioners  agreed  on  the  general 
question,  but  differences  arose  as  regards  the 
manner  in  which  the  English  proposed  to  cousti- 
tute  the  new  Parliament  of  the  United  Kingdom, 
and  while  the  populr.tion  of  Scotland  amounted  to 
a  sixth  of  the  population  of  England,  they  al- 
lowed that  kingdom  but  forty-six  members  in  the 
Commons,  or  a  thirteenth  of  the  total  representa- 
tion. Sixteen  peers  only,  out  of  the  whole 
peerage  of  Scotland,  were  to  be  chosen  by  elec- 
tion, to  sit  in  the  English  House  of  Lords.  The 
stringency  of  these  latter  clauses,  by  which  the 
people  of  Scotland  felt  themselves  aggrieved,  ex- 
cited universal  discontent ;  it  was  to  be  expected, 
particularly  at  the  outset,  from  a  treaty  of  union 
between  the  two  nations,  that  there  would  be  a 
clashing  of  material  interests  prejudicial  to  the 
welfare  of  very  many  persons,  as  occurs  at  the 
outset  in  every  important  political  connection. 
The  wounding  of  their  national  self  love  would 
of  itself  have  been  sufficient  to  render  the  people 
of  Scotland  insensible  to  the  remote  advantages 
of  the  compact,  and  all  parties — Whigs  and 
Tories,  Jacobites  and  Williamites,  Presbyterians, 
Episcopalians  and  Camerouians,  combined  to 
defeat  it. 

Thus  we  have  nearly  the  whole  people 
uniting  to  oppose  the  union  it  was  sought  to 
impose  upon  them,  and  yet  in  face  of  the  all 
but  unanimous  opposition  of  the  people  of 
Scotland,  England  succeeded  in  forcing  them 
into  the  union  by  the  use  of  means  she  never 
hesitates  to  adopt : — 

The  commissioners  of  the  Government  were 
insulted  by  the  populace,  who  destroyed  the 
dwellings  of  many  state  ofliciais  favorable  to  the 
union,  while  they  were  loud  in  praise  of  the  Diilce 
of  Hamilton,  one  of  thi-  chief  opponents  of  the 
measure.  The  Dukes  of  QcEENsuiiRKV  and  Al^- 
GYi.E,  Earls  of  Montrose,  Stair,  Roxuurgh 
and  Mauchmont  strove  in  vain  to  allay  by 
argument  and  reasoiiing,the  cx])losion  of  patriotic 
feeling  and  national  tury,  and  what  the  best 
arguments  could  not  obtain  was  carried  by  cor- 
ruption. A  portion  of  the  gold  promised  l)y  the 
English  Coinmissionors  as  a  com|)ensation  for  the 
fresh  burdens  about  to  bo  imposed  upon  the  sister 
kingdom,  was  divided  amongst  their  Scotch  col- 
leagues and  many  influential  members  of  the 
Parliament  sitting  in  Edinburgh  ;  thenceforwaid 


all  obstacles  were  removed ;  the  treaty  of  union, 
which  the  Scotch  people  looked  upon  as  an  act  of 
suicide,  and  which  the  purest  and  best  men  would 
not  have  sanctioned,  received  the  assent  of  a  venal 
majority.  In  line,  that  famous  compact,  which 
was  denounced  as  a  dishonor  to  Scotland,  which 
that  country  looked  mon  as  the  yielding  up  of  her 
interests  and  her  glory,  and  which  was  destined 
to  open  for  her,  in  subsequent  times,  an  era  of 
unparalleled  peace  and  prosperity,  was  signed  on 
the  1st  May,  1707,  and  was  considered  a  gi eat 
triumph  by  the  people  of  England,  already  at  that 
time  intoxicated  with  joy  at  the  success  of  their 
arms  on  the  continent. 

There,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  an  instance  of  the 
manner  in  whicli  the  policy  of  England  can 
overcome  even  the  most  justifiable  resistance, 
supported  by  the  unanimous  wishes  of  a 
people.  Scotland  looked  upon  a  union  with 
England  as  an  act  of  suicide,  and  yet  the 
union  was  carried  by  a  majority  in  the 
Parliament  of  Edinburgh.  I  need  not  dwell 
at  length  upon  these  facts  ;  they  speak 
eloquently  ibr  themselves.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  is  another  fact  in  the  parliamentary 
history  of  England,  of  which  it  is  well  to 
remind  the  House — I  mean  the  abolition  of 
the  Irish  Parliament.  The  Honorable 
Minister  of  Agricultuie  (Hon.  jMr.  McGeb) 
has  told  us,  in  that  flowery  language  which 
characterises  the  children  of  his  native  soil, 
that  he  himself,  when  scarce  twenty  years 
of  age,  struggled  to  emancipate  his  country 
from  the  tyranny  of  England,  and  not  suc- 
ceeding in  his  noble  undertaking,  preferred 
to  exile  himself  to  American  soil  rather  than 
remain  to  be  a  daily  spectator  of  the  misfor- 
tunes and  sufferings  of  his  native  land.  And 
yet,  what  is  he  now  doing?  He  is  trying,  with 
the  help  of  a  hostile  mnjority,  to  thrust  upon 
Lower  Canada,  his  adopted  country,  a  union 
which  is  repugnant  to  her,  and  to  revive  here 
the  system  of  oppression  over  which  he  wept 
in  Ireland.  (Hear,  hear.)  Let  us  seewliat 
the  means  were  which  were  employed  to 
impose  upon  'Ireland  thnt  union  which  was 
destined  to  entail  the  wholesale  exodus  of 
her  population  : — 

In  the  case  of  Ireland,  the  contest  was  a  longer 
one,  but  Eniiland  was  ultimately  triumphant. 
After  the  crisis  of'17l>8,  (says  M.  Gistavk 
iiK  BiCAi'MONT,)  England,  holding  down  rebellious 
and  vanquished  Ireland,  chnstised  her  unrelenting- 
ly and  |)itiles3ly.  Twenty  years  previously  Ire- 
land again  came  into  possession  of  her  political 
lii)CrtifH  ;  England  jircsorvod  a  bitter  riH-olIoc- 
tion  of  this  success  of  Ireland,  and  took  advantago 
of  the  depression  of  the  latter  to  replace  her  un- 
der an  absolute  yoko.  The  Irish  Parliamoi\t,  after 
recovering  its  indepeudeuco,  became  troublesome 


599 


to  England ;  it  was  necessary,  in  order  to  master 
it,  to  take  great  pains  in  corruption,  in  spite  of 
which  great  resistance  on  the  part  of  the  Irish 
Parliament  was  met  with ;  the  opportunity  was 
favorable  to  suppress  it,  and  in  consequence  the 
English  Government  abolished  it. 

On  the  reception  of  this  news,  poor  Ireland 
was  in  an  instant  in  agitation,  just  as  a  body 
which  has  just  been  deprived  of  life  stirs  again 
under  the  steel  which  mutilates  and  rends  it.  Of 
thirty-two  counties,  twenty-one  loudly  exclaimed 
against  the  destruction  of  the  Irish  Parliament. 
l°hat  Parliament,  from  whom  an  act  of  suicide 
had  necessarily  to  be  asked,  refused  to  consum- 
mate it.  and  by  its  vote  maintained  its  constitu- 
tional existence. 

Indignant  at  the  servility  which  it  was  dared  to 
ask  for  from  the  body  of  which  he  formed  part, 
Gkattax  vehemently  opposed  the  Ministerial 
scheme.  But  all  this  resistance  was  in  vain.  The 
only  resistance  which  definitively  opposed  a 
serious  obstacle  to  the  views  of  England,  was 
that  of  the  Irish  Parliament,  which  would  not 
vote  its  own  abolition.  Hitherto  its  acts  had 
been  bought,  and  now  its  death  was  in  like  man- 
ner purchased.  Corruption  was  at  once  made 
use  of  on  an  enormous  scale ;  places,  pensions 
and  favors  of  all  kinds  were  lavished  in  every 
direction,  and  the  same  men  who,  in  1799,  rejected 
the  scheme  of  union,  adopted  it  on  the  '26th  May, 
1800,  by  a  majority  of  a  hundred  and  eighteen 
votes  against  seventy-three,  and  that  majority 
consisted  of  either  state  pensioners  or  public 
functionaries.  And  so,  through  violence,  aided 
by  corruption,  was  accomplished  the  destructive 
act  of  the  Irish  Parliament,  not  without  stirring 
up  in  Ireland  all  that  remained  of  national  pas- 
sion and  feeUngs  of  patriotism. 

Mr.  Speaker,  when  we  have  such  acts  as 
these  from  which  to  forji  an  opinion  of  the 
politics  of  England,  it  is  reasonable  that 
those  who  have  not  the  same  reasons  for 
desiring  constitutional  changes  as  the  hon. 
members  who  sit  on  the  Ministerial  benches, 
should,  at  least,  have  an  opportunity  of 
carefully  studying  all  the  details  of  the 
measure  which  is  submitted  to  us.  Por  my 
part,  I  am  satisfied  with  the  present  Constitu- 
tion, and  am  ready  to  defend  it  against  every 
enemy  which  may  come  forward  to  attack 
our  territory.  But  I  am  bound  to  declare 
that  if  that  Constitution  is  changed  despite 
the  will  of  the  people,  we  shall  no  longer 
find  among  the  Lower  Canadians  that  impulse 
for  which  they  have  alwaj-s  been  distin- 
guished in  days  gone  by,  and  which  enabled 
them  to  vanquish  a  hostile  force  of  double 
their  number.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  would 
appear  to  have  been  no  reason  why  the 
antagonism  between  the  English  and  French 
races,  to  which  I  alluded  as  existing  in 
Europe,    should    have    been    carried    into 


America;  and  yet  the  strife  was  continued 
in  the  New  World,  after  it  had  arisen  in  the 
old  hemisphere.  At  the  present  day  that 
strife  continues,  and  despite  the  protestations 
of  sincere  friendship  interchanged  between 
Paris  and  London,  we  see  France  and 
England  continually  facing  each  other, 
sword  in  hand,  feeling  for  each  other  that 
respect  which  mutual  fear  alone  can  inspire, 
xlod  could  it  be  expected  that  those  feelings 
of  rivalry  and  antagonism  which  have  always 
existed,  and  which  still  exist  at  the  present 
day,  between  the  two  races,  would  be  effaced 
from  among  their  Canadian  descendants,  that 
we  may  be  fused  into  one  nation  ?  It  is  an 
impossibility  !  Do  what  you  may,  the  same 
feelings  will  always  exist.  Thej  are  blame- 
able,  perhaps,  but  the  fact  remains — they 
exist,  and  form  part  of  the  very  nature  of 
the  two  races.  The  language^  the  religion, 
the  institutions  and  the  customs  of  a  people 
are  so  many  obstacles  to  its  union  with 
another  people,  whose  language,  religion, 
in^titutioijs  and  customs  are  different  from 
theirs.  And  is  it  supposed  that  these  feel- 
ings of  rivalry  and  these  causes  of  estrange- 
ment will  be  removed  on  the  adoption  of  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  which  is  proposed 
to  us?  Por  my  part,  I  would  wish  in 
Canada  to  see  the  two  nationalities  rival 
each  other  in  progress  in  the  useful 
works  of  peace.  This  rivalry,  not  of  strife 
hand  to  hand,  but  a  rivalry  in  the  laudable 
ambition  which  has  for  its  object  the  realiz- 
ing of  the  greatest  prosperity  known,  the 
attaining  of  the  highest  excellence  in  the 
sciences,  and  of  the  most  profound  secrets 
of  art,  would  confer  upon  our  country  a 
degree  of  power  equal  to  what  has  resulted 
from  the  combined  strength  of  England  and 
France,  which  has,  up  to  the  present,  beea 
employed  to  impel  the  world  towards  the 
prodigies  which  have  been  realized  in  the 
nineteenth  century.  With  equality  of 
numbers,  and  of  sectional  representation, 
the  two  nationalities  cannot  fall  foul  of  each 
other;  but  with  Confederation,  as  we  shall 
be  in  a  great  minority  in  the  General  Parlia- 
ment, which  has  all  the  important  powers 
in  relation  to  legislation,  we  shall  have  to 
carry  on  a  constant  contest  for  the  defence 
and  preservation  of  our  political  rights  and 
of  our  liberty.  Under  the  uoion  the  French 
Canadians  are  divided  in  this  House  into 
two  camps,  opposed  the  one  to  the  other, 
because  they  have  nothing  to  fear  in  regard 
to  their  national  interests;  but  under  Con- 
federation, as  we  shall  have  but  forty-eight 


600 


French  members  against  one  hundred  and 
forty-six  in  the  Federal  Legislature,  those 
members  will  have  to  go  together  like  one 
man  to  maintain  their  influence,  and  the 
simple  fact  of  that  union  of  the  French - 
Canadians  into  a  solid  phalanx  will  cause 
the  English  element  to  unite  on  its  side  to 
crush  and  vanquish  it.  It  is  because  I  fear 
such  a  strife  that  I  cannot  approve  of  a 
Constitution  which  does  not  secure  our 
political  rights,  and  the  working  of  which 
will  necessarily  entail  disastrous  consequences 
to  our  race.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  strife 
of  nationalities  which  has  been  too  long 
maintained  in  Europe  appeared  to  have  no 
cause  of  existence  in  America.  It  appeared 
that  there  was  on  this  continent  room  enough 
and  prospects  enough  to  allow  everybody, 
of  all  principles  and  of  all  nationalities,  to 
live  in  peace  upon  it,  without  jostling  and 
falling  foul  ot  each  other.  It  appeared  that 
those  who  had  emigrated  from  the  old  world 
should  have  at  heart  the  formation  ot  power- 
ful nations  on  this  continent,  without  iutro- 
ducinc;  the  roli^ious  and  national  hatred 
which  had  for  so  long  a  time  divided  Europe, 
and  deluged  her  in  blood.  And  yet  what 
do  we  see  here  ?  We  have  seen  France, 
who  first  of  all  despatched  the  apostles  of 
Christianity  into  the  vast  solitude  s  of  North 
America — France,  who  first  planted  her 
noble  flag  on  the  Island  of  Montreal  and  the 
heights  of  Quebec — we  have  seen  France 
deprived  of  the  last  inch  of  the  soil  which  she 
had  concucred  on  this  continent,  bequeath- 
ing to  her  children,  abandoned  in  Canada, 
but  a  future  of  struggles  and  contests  against 
the  encroaching  spirit  of  her  powerful  rival. 
(Hear,  hear.)  From  the  commencement  of 
the  French  domination  in  America,  wo  have 
seen  reproduced  here  the  strifes  which 
divided  the  European  continent.  Towns 
and  villages  were  destroyed  as  though  tliere 
^vas  not  room  enough  in  this  new  world  for 
the  few  hiindsfuls  of  meu  who  came  to  in- 
habit it.  'JMic  first  scene  of  this  inexcusablo 
description  occurred  in  Acadia,  in  IGli). 
Gaiineau  mukes  the  following  remarks  on 
this  subject : — 

In  1012  L.v  Saussave  began,  on  the  left  bank 
■of  the  Penobscot  river,  a  settlement  which  he 
■called  St.  Sauveur.  All  wont  "veil  at  lirst,  and 
tlatteiiiig  hopes  were  entertained  at  once  of  Hiic- 
cess  beyond  all  expectation,  wiion  an  milooked  (or 
.storm  buist  over  the  colony  and  stiiled  it  in  its 
cradle. 

England  claimed  the  country  as  far  as  the  45th 
•degree  of  north  latitude — that  is  to  say,  all  the 


continent  to  the  northward  as  far  as  the  heart  of 
Acadia.  France,  on  the  other  hand,  maintained 
that  her  boundary  ran  southward  as  far  as  the 
40th  degree.  From  this  dispute  it  residted  that, 
while  La  y.vrssAYE  thought  himself  within  the 
boundary  of  New  France  at  St.  Sauveur,  the  Eng- 
lish declared  that  he  was  deep  in  their  territory. 
To  maintain  the  claim,  Captain  Argall  of  Virgi- 
nia resolved  to  go  and  dislodge  him,  incited  by  the 
hope  of  obtaining  a  rich  booty,  and  by  liis  preju- 
dices against  Catholics,  who  had  been  the  cause  of 
the  ruin  of  PouTRixcornT. 

Thus  in  1612,  in  other  words  only  two  or 
three  years  after  the  I'ounding  of  Quebec,  we 
already  find  religious  and  national  strife 
beginning  their  work  of  exclusiveness  on  our 
continent,  and  that  strife  we  shall  again  have 
to  engage  in,  disagreeable  as  it  may  be.  I 
proceed : — 

He  appeared  suddenly  before  i:  t.  Sauveur  with 
a  vessel  mounting  M  guns,  and  spread  dismay 
among  the  defenceless  inhabitants,  who  took  him 
at  first  for  a  pirate.  Father  Gilbert  du  Thet 
vainly  endeavored  to  offer  a  slight  resistance ;  he 
was  killed,  and  the  settlement  given  up  to  pillage. 
Everything  was  carried  off"  or  sacked,  Aruali, 
himself  setting  the  example. 

To  legalize  this  act  of  piracy  (for  such  it  was), 
he  stole  La  Saussate's  commission,  and  pretended 
to  look  upon  him  and  his  people  as  unaccredited 
adventurers.  Gradually,  however,  he  seemed  to 
so^'ten,  and  proposed  to  those  who  had  trades  to 
follow  him  to  Jamestown,  from  whence,  after 
having  worked  for  one  year,  they  shoidd  be  sent 
back  to  their  native  land.  Tho  oh'er  was  accepted 
by  a  dozen  of  them.  The  remainder,  with  La 
Saussaye  and  Father  Masse,  preferred  to  risk 
themselves  in  a  Irail  vessel  with  the  object  of 
reaching  La  Hcve,  where  they  found  a  vessel  of 
St.  Malo,  which  conveyed  them  to  France. 

Those  who  trusted  to  Argai.l's  word  were 
greatly  surprised,  on  their  arrival  at  Jamestown, 
to  find  that  they  were  thrown  into  prioou  and 
treated  as  pirates.  In  vain  they  claimed  the  lul- 
filment  of  the  treaty  which  they  had  made  with 
him;  they  were  condemned  to  death.  Argai.i., 
who  had  not  supposed  that  tho  abstraction  of  La 
Savssaye's  commission  would  have  such  serious 
results,  did  not  think  that  ho  ought  to  carry  dis- 
simulation any  furtlier,  and  gave  up  tho  commission 
to  the  Governor,  Sir  Thomas  1)ai,e,  and  cdnfo-ssed 
all.  That  document,  and  information  wliich  was 
obtained  in  the  course  of  the  enquiry  into  the 
matter,  caused  the  government  of  Virginia  to 
resolve  to  drive  the  French  from  all  the  places 
occupied  by  them  to  the  south  of  tho  line  4u.  A 
squadron  of  three  vessels  was  placed  under  the 
command  of  tho  same  man,  Augai.i.,  in  order  to 
put  lliat  resolution  in  execution. 

Tho  (loet  began  by  destroying  all  thai  remained 
of  the  old  habitation  of  Ste.  Croix — a  useless  ven- 
geance, as  it  liad  been  abandoned  for  several 
years  ;  its  course  was  then  directed  towaixls  Port 


601 


Royal,  where  nobody  was  found  (all  the  people 
being  in  the  fields,  two  leagues  away),  and  iu  less 
than  two  hours  all  the  houses,  together  with  the 
fort,  were  reduced  to  ashes. 

Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  this  scene  of  devasta- 
and  van'lalism  on  our   continent,  which  at 
that   period    contained    hardly    a   thousand 
white  inhabitants,  gives  the   clue  to  all  the 
events  which  followed  from  that  date  up  to 
the   conquest   of  Canada   by    the    English. 
This  fact  is  a  corroboration  of  the  principle 
that  provides  that  the  stronger  nation  shall 
oppress  the  weaker,  unleps  by  special  circum- 
stances the  one  is  protected  against  the  other. 
This  is  the  proof  that  the  sectional  equality 
secured  by  the  system  of  government  which 
we  now  possess  has  alone  been  effective  in 
Canada   to  enable  different  nationalities  to 
live  together  on   terms  of  equality,   and  to 
labor   successfully    for  the  advancement  of 
the  common  prosperity.    (Hear,  hear.)    But 
the  strife   which   began    in    1613,  between 
France  and  England,  became  more  deadly 
after  a  century  and  a  half  of  occupation ;  it 
spread   along   the   whole   frontier    of  New 
France.     At  the  instigation  of  the  rival  race. 
Indian  tribes  fell  upon  all  the  French  settle- 
ments in  the  country,  and  an   incessant  and 
vindictive  war  wa.s   kept  up   with   the   sole 
object  of  driving  the  French  off"  the  conti- 
nent.    We  know  at  the  present   day   what 
the  result  of  that  contest  was.     We  are  told 
that  we  have  no  reason   to   complain  of  the 
system  of  government  which  we  now   have. 
That  is  true.  But  if  we  have  that  government 
it  is  because,  ever  since   the  conquest,   the 
remnant  of  the   French   nation    which    re- 
mained in  the   land  have  striven  bravely  to 
obtain  it.    Had  it  not  been  for  the  American 
revolution,  we  too  would  have  had  our  large 
share  of  suffering  and  humiliation,  similar 
to  that  which   the  Acadians   were   made   to 
undergo.    The  treatment  to  which  they  were 
subjected  by  England  is  an  example  of  what 
might  have  happened    to  us,  but   for    our 
number,  and,  subsequently,  but  for  the  vici- 
nity to  us  of  the  American  Republic.    There 
was  in  Acadia  a  nucleus  of  French  people, 
who  lived  peaceably  and  happily,  and  who 
had  submitted  to  English  domination  with- 
out a  murmur ;  and  yet,  because  they  were 
weak  and  had  no  longer  the  arm  of  France 
to  protect  them,  they  were  transported,  like 
negroes  on  the  coast  of  Africa,  by  philan- 
thropic   England.     This   is    an    important 
historical  fact  which  must  not  be  forgotten, 
and  the  details  of  which  it  is  well  to  set  before 
the  eyes  of  our  population,  at  a  time  when  the 
77 


English  element  is  pursuing,with  a  persistence 
worthy  of  a  better  cause,  the  aggressive  and 
encroaching  policy  concealed  under  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  which  is  submitted 
to  u??.  The  hon.  member  for  South  Lanark 
(Mr.  Morris)  told  us  the  other  day  that  we 
ought  to  thank  England,  and  be  most  grate- 
ful to  her  for  the  system  of  government 
which  we  received  from  her.  But  to  whom 
do  we  owe  that  system  ?  Do  we  owe  it  to 
the  liberality  of  England  ?  Did  we  not 
obtain  our  political  rights  only  at  the  time 
wheu  she  could  no  longer  refuse  them  to  us 
with  safety  ?  No,  Mr.  Speaker,  our  grati- 
tude and  our  thanks  are  only  due  to  those 
fellow-countrymen  of  ours  who  at  all  times 
bravely  strove  to  obtain  them.  When  we 
see  French  colonies  which  still  groan  under 
the  English  colonial  system,  and  which 
complain  to  Europe  of  the  treatment  to 
which  tl:cy  are  subjected,  the  conclusion 
must  be  come  to  that  we  owe  nothing  to 
England,  but  that  on  the  contrary  we  owe 
all  to  those  who,  after  an  age  of  strife, 
obtained  for  us  that  governmental  reform 
which  we  enjoy.  In  order  that  our  people 
may  form  a  correct  opinion  of  that  liberality 
which  is  so  highly  vaunted  to  us,  allow  me 
here,  .^Ir.  Speaker,  to  quote  a  few  pages  of 
the  history *of  the  Acadian  people  : — 

The  war  of  1774  began  their  misfortunes;  that 
of  the  seven  years  completed  its  total  ruin.  For 
some  time  the  English  agents  acted  with  the 
greatest  severity  ;  the  courts,  by  the  most  flagrant 
violation  of  the  law,  by  systematic  denial  of 
justice,  had  become  to  the  poor  inhabitants  an 
object  at  once  of  terror  and  of  hatred.  The  most 
subo  diiiate  official  insisted  on  obedience  to  his 
will.  "  If  you  do  not  supply  wood  to  my  troops," 
said  a  certain  Captain  Murray,  "  I  will  tear 
down  your  houses  and  use  them  for  fuel."  "  If 
you  will  uot  take  the  oath  of  fidelity,"  added 
Governor  HopsoN,  ''  I  will  turn  my  cannon 
against  your  villages."  Nothing  could  induce 
these  honorable  men  to  do  an  act  against  which 
their  consciences  exclaimed,  and  which,  in 
the  opinion  of  many  people,  England  had  no 
right  to  demand  from  them.  "  The  Acadians," 
observes  Mr.  Halibcrtox,  "  were  not  British 
subjects,  as  they  had  not  taken  the  oath 
of  allegiance,  and  they  could  not,  therefore, 
be  considered  rebels ;  nor  were  they  to  be 
looked  upon  as  prisoners  of  war.  nor  to  be 
sent  to  France,  as  for  nearly  half  a  century  they 
had  been  allowed  to  retain  their  possessions,  on 
the  simple  condition  of  remaining  neutral."  But 
many  schemers  and  adventurers  looked  at  their 
fine  farms  with  an  envious  eye.  What  fine  inherit- 
ances, and,  consequently,  what  a  bait !  It  was 
not  difficult  for  them  to  find  political  reasons  to 
justify  the  expulsion  of  the  Acadians.     By  far  the 


602 


greater  number  had  committed  no  act  whatever 
inconsistent  with  neutrality;  but,  in  the  great 
catastrophe  which  was  impending,  the  innocent 
were  to  be  placed  in  the  sume  category  with  the 
guilty.  Not  one  inhabitant  had  been  deserving  of 
mercy.  Their  fate  was  decided  in  Governor 
Lawrexce's  Council,  at  which  were  present  Ad- 
mirals BoscAWEN  and  Mostyn,  whose  fleets  were 
cruising  on  the  coast.  It  was  resolved  to  dis- 
perse through  the  English  colonies  the  remnant 
of  this  unfortunate  people ;  and  in  order  that 
none  might  escape,  the  most  profound  secrecy 
was  enjoined  up  to  the  moment  fixed  for  the  re- 
moval, which  was  to  take  place  on  the  same  day 
and  at  the  same  hour  in  all  parts  of  Acadia  at 
once.  It  was  decided  also,  in  order  to  make  the 
success  more  complete,  to  bring  together  the  in- 
habitants of  the  principal  places.  Proclamations, 
prepared  with  perlidious  skill,  invited  them  to 
meet  in  certain  places  under  the  most  severe 
penalties.  Four  hundred  and  eighteen  heads  of 
families,  relying  on  the  British  faith,  so  assembled 
on  the  oth  of  iSeptember  in  the  Church  of  Grand- 
Pr6.  Colonel  Winsluw  went  ihither  with  a  large 
attendance.  There  he  showed  them  the  commis- 
sion which  he  held  from  the  Governor,  and  in- 
formed them  that  they  had  been  called  together 
to  hear  the  final  decision  of  the  King  with  respect 
to  them.  He  declared  to  them  that,  although  tiie 
duly  which  he  had  to  perform  was  a  most  painful 
one  to  him,  he  was  compelled,  in  obedience  to 
his  orders,  to  iufurm  them  "  that  their  lands  and 
their  cattle,  of  al.  kinds,  were  confiscated  to  the 
Crown,  together  witii  all  their  otheP  property,  ex- 
cept their  money  and  tbeir  clothing,  and  that  they 
themselves  were  to  be  deported  fixm  the  pro- 
vince." No  motive  was  assigned  for  this  decision, 
and  none  could  be  assigned,  in  full  civilization 
and  in  a  time  of  political  and  religious  quiet,  such 
an  act  of  spoliation  was  inexcusable,  and,  like 
the  usurer,  had  to  conceal  its  criminality  by 
silence.  A  body  ol  troops  which  had  been  kept 
concealed  up  to  that  point,  emerged  from  their 
ambush  and  surrounded  the  church.  The  in- 
habiiauts,  taken  by  surpi  ise  and  unarmed,  offered 
no  resistance.  The  soldiers  collected  the  women 
and  child. en;  1,0^3  men,  women  and  childien 
were  collected  at  Grand  Pie  alone.  Their  cattle 
consisted  of  1,209  oxen,  l,5o7  cows,  5,007  calves, 
41*3  horses,  c!,tJ'JO  sheep,  and  4.197  swine.  A  few 
Acadiatif  hi:ving  escaped  into  the  woods,  the 
connliy  was  devaslaicd  to  prevent  llieir  obtaining 
suljsislence.  Ai  Les  Mines,  27J  barns,  155  other 
small  buildings,  12  mills  and  one  church  were 
burned.  I'hose  who  had  rendered  the  greatest 
services  to  the  Government,  such  as  the  old  no- 
taiy  Le  liLANC,  who  dieil  at  Philadelphia  of  grief 
and  misery,  while  seeking  his  sous  scattered 
through  tijc  English  provinces,  were  no  better 
treated  than  those  who  had  favored  the  French. 
No  disimction  was  made.  Thf  men  included  in 
bo;h  classes  were  allowed,  and  it  was  the  only 
consolation  allowed  them,  before  their  embarka- 
tion to  visit,  in  parlies  of  ten,  their  families,  and 
to  gaze  for  the  last  time  on  thai  countiy  which 
was  once  so  calm  aud  huppy,  in  which  they  were 


born,  and  which  they  were  never  to  see  again.  The 
10th  was  the  day  fixed  for  their  embarkation.  A 
calm  resignation  had  succeeded  to  their  first  des- 
pair. But  when  the  time  came  for  them  to  bid  a  last 
adieu  to  their  country,  to  go  and  live  dispersed  iu 
the  midst  of  a  people  foreign  in  language,  in  cus- 
toms, in  manners  and  in  religion,  the  courage  of 
these  unfortunate  people  gave  way,  and  they  gave 
themselves  up  to  the  most  profound  grief.  la 
violation  of  the  promise  which  had  been  made 
them,  and  by  an  unexampled  refinement  of  bar- 
barity, families  were  separated  and  dispersed 
throughout  different  vessels.  In  order  to  put 
them  on  board,  the  prisoners  were  arranged  in 
sixes,  with  the  young  people  in  front.  These 
having  refused  to  march,  and  having  claimed  the 
fulfilment  of  the  promise  made  them,  that  they 
should  be  put  on  board  with  their  relatives,  they 
were  replied  to  by  the  advance  of  soldiers  with 
their  bayonets  crossed.  The  road  from  the  Grand- 
Pri  chapel  to  the  river  Gaspereaux  was  a  mile  in 
length  ;  it  was  lined  on  both  sides  by  women  and 
children,  who,  on  their  knees  and  bathe  1  in  teai-s, 
encouraged  them  by  calling  down  blessings  on 
their  heads.  The  sad  procession  moved  slowly 
aloi;g,  praying,  and  singing  hymns.  The  heads 
of  families  walked  after  the  youth ;  at  last 
the  procession  reached  the  shore,  the  men  were 
put  into  some  vessels  and  the  women  and  children 
into  others,  pell-mell,  without  any  regard  what- 
ever for  their  comfort.  Governments  have  com- 
mitted acts  of  cruelty  under  the  impulse  of 
unreflecting  anger,  but  they  had  been  piovoked 
and  irritated  by  aggression  and  repeated  attacks. 
There  is  no  example  in  modern  days  of  chastise- 
ment inflicted  on  a  peacable  and  inoffensive  people 
with  so  much  premeditation,  barbarity  and  cool- 
ness as  that  to  which  allusion  is  now  bein^  made. 

On  the  same  day  and  at  the  same  hour,  all  the 
other  Acadian  settlements  presented  the  same 
spectacle  of  desolation.  The  vessels,  laden  with 
the  numerous  victims,  sailed  for  the  differeut 
provinces  where  they  were  to  be  dispersed.  They 
were  thrust  ashore  on  the  coast  beiween  Boston 
and  Carolina,  without  bread  and  without  protec- 
tion, and  were  left  to  the  charity  of  the  inhabitants 
of  the  country  in  which  they  might  happen  to  be. 

For  many  days  after  their  departure,  their 
cattle  might  be  seen  collecting  around  the  ruins 
of  their  dwellings,  and  their  dogs  passed  the  nights 
in  pitiful  bowlings  at  the  absence  of  their  masters. 
Happy  even  in  the-r  grief,  they  did  not  know  to 
what  extremes  avarice  and  ambition  can  impel 
mankind. 

Well,  Mr.  Spkakkr,  these  are  facts  which 
it  is  iiup.irtjiQt  to  reiueuibcr.  Here  is  a  | 
French  colony,  situa'.ed  a  few  hundred 
leagues  from  Canada,  depot  t;'d  iu  u  body, 
and  the  rcinuaut  of  wliich  long  after  return- 
ed to  the  sauic  territory.  Still  uioro,  it  is 
with  the  descondcnts  of  a  email  part  of  these 
exiles  that  ii  is  now  proposed  to  unite  us. 
But  a  few  months  ago,  I  went  among  those 
people,   aud  when   I  saw   the    magoiiioent 


60S 


properties  of  which  they  had  been  so  brutal- 
ly despoiled,  in  order  that  they  might  be 
conferred  upon  their  executioners,  in  spite 
of  myself,  I  remembered  their  moving  his- 
tory, and  that  sight,  I  must  say,  did  not 
tend  to  induce  me  to  accept  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  without  carefully  considering 
all  its  details.  I  repeat,  Mr.  Speake  ., 
these  are  facts  which  must  not  be  forgotten. 
(Laughter,  and  whispering  on  the  right.) 
To  see  the  manner,  Mr.  Speaker,  in  which 
certain  members  of  this  Hou-e  receive  the 
account  contained  in  one  of  the  saddest 
pages  of  the  history  of  New  France,  one 
would  really  believe  that  the  facts  which  I 
have  cited  never  occurred,  and  do  not  con- 
vey any  instruction  for  the  future.  However, 
I  am  not  surprised  at  such  conduct  on  their 
part,  when  they  can  approve  of  a  plan  of  a 
Constitution  which  contains  a  clause  by 
which  the  Imperial  Grovernment  is  enabled 
even  to  change  our  name  of  Canadians  to  give 
us  any  one  they  may  think  proper.  The 
recollection  of  our  struggles  cannot  be  very 
vivid  in  their  memory,  and  the  love  of  their 
nationality  must  be  very  weakly  rooted  in 
their  hearts,  to  allow  of  their  consenting  to 
lose,  with  the  name  of  Canadians,  the 
memory  of  an  heroic  past.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Under  Confederation,  Canada  will  be  no  longer 
a  country  possessing  a  distinct  individuality, 
and  her  own  history  and  customs,  but  she 
will  be  a  state  in  the  Confederacy,  the  gen- 
eral name  of  which  will  cause  the  special 
name  of  each  province  of  which  it  is  com- 
posed to  disappear.  Look  at  the  states  of 
the  American  UnioD ;  the  name  of  the 
United  States  does  away  with  that  of  the 
individual  states.  So  with  Canada ;  the 
name  of  the  Confederacy  will  be  that  by 
which  we  shall  be  known  in  foreign  lands. 
For  my  part,  I  am  proud  of  our  history  and 
of  my  designation  of  Canadian,  and  I  wish 
to  kcLp  it.  1  am  not  one  of  those  who  can 
listen  without  interest  to  the  recital  of  the 
heroic  struggles  of  the  French  race  in 
America,  as  the  hon.  member  for  Rouville 
(Mr.  Poulin)  can  do  j  for  I  am  of  opinion 
that  considerations  of  nationality,  of  family, 
of  language,  and  of  origin  ought  to  be  most 
dear  to  a  people,  although  they  would  appear 
to  possess  no  importance  or  interest  whatever 
in  the  eyes  of  the  hon.  member.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

[It  being  six  o'clock,  the  House  rose,  to 
resume  at  lialf-past  seven,  p.m.  At  that  hour 
Mr.  Perrault  continued.] 

Mr.  Speaker,  at  the  time  when  I  broke 


off  in  my  observations  in  consequence  of  the 
adjournment  at  six  o'clock,  I  was  engaged  in 
shewing  what  was  the  spirit  of  antagonism 
and  strife  which  prevailed  on  the  American 
continent  up  to  1755.  We  saw  Acadia 
made  a  prey  to  the  attacks  of  New  England, 
and  lastly,  we  saw  her  population  dispersed 
over  the  inhospitable  shores  of  this  continent 
which  border  on  the  Atlantic  ocean.  Ntw 
France  had  thus  lost  the  greater  part  of  her 
territory  in  America.  The  seven  years' 
war  advanced  with  the  strides  of  a  giant, 
and  every  day  saw  the  French  element  con- 
fined within  narrower  boundaries.  After  a 
prolonged  contest,  during  which  handfuls  of 
men  struggled  with  armies  of  ten  times  their 
number,  when  they  were  withoutbread,  with- 
out munitions  of  war  and  almost  without  hope, 
the  battle  of  the  Plains  of  Abraham  struck  the 
last  blow  to  the  French  power  in  America. 
In  the  following  year  the  battle  of  Ste.  Foye. 
which  took  place  on  the  28th  April,  1760, 
soon  compelled  the  Canadians  to  capitulate, 
although  they  were  the  victors  in  that  battle, 
and  the  English  were  compelled  to  take 
shelter  behind  the  walls  of  Quebec.  In  the 
treaty  of  capitulation,  Enolaud  guaranteed  to 
the  French-Canadia'js  the  free  exercise  of 
their  form  of  worship,  the  preservation  of 
their  institutions,  the  use  of  their  language 
and  the  maintenance  of  their  laws.  After 
this  struggle  on  the  field  of  honor,  which 
called  down  upon  the  French-Canadians  a 
most  magnificent  tribute  of  praise  from  their 
Governor,  we  shall  find  them  engaged  in  a 
new  struggle,  a  political  struggle,  yet  more 
glorious  than  that  which  had  preceded  the 
cession  of  Canada  to  England.  But  permit 
me  here,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  quote  the  eulo- 
g;um  pronounced  on  the  Canadians  by  Gov- 
ernor Vaudreuil  in  a  letter  which  he  wrote 
to  the  ministers  of  Louis  XIV.  : — "  With 
this  beautiful  and  extensive  country  France 
loses  70,000  souis,  who  are  of  a  nature  so  sel- 
dom found, that  never  yet  were  people  so  docile, 
so  brave,  and  so  attached  to  their  prince." 
These  qualities,  for  which  the  French-Cana- 
dians were  distinguished  at  that  period,  still 
exist  in  the  hearts  of  the  population  at  the 
present  day.  At  the  present  day  still  they 
are  loyal,  brave  and  attached  to  monarchical 
institutions;  they  love  firmly-established 
institutions,  and  the  guarantees  of  peace 
accorded  by  a  great  power,  and  the  struggles 
through  which  tliey  have  had  to  pas3  under 
Englith  d_..:unatiou  have  been  the  best  proofs 
of  their  loyalty.  If  we  study  the  history  of 
our  struggles  since  the  cession  of  Canada,  we 


604. 


sLall  find  that  our  public  men  were  always 
attached  to  the  Crown  of  England  up  to  the 
time  when  they  were  compelled  by  the  arbi- 
trary and  unjust   conduct  of    the    Imperi;il 
Government  to  have  recourse  to  arms  to  cb- 
tain  respect   for  our  political  rights  and   our 
liberties;  and   it  was  thus  in  1887   that  we 
gained    responsible     gt>vernment.        ( Hear, 
hear.)     But  in  order  to  hold  up  to  view  the 
spirit  of  aggression  and  encroachment  which 
has  always  characterised  the  Euglish  popu- 
lation in  America,  I  shall   give  an  historical 
sketch  of   the  struggles  through  which    wo 
had  to   pass,  in  the   course   of   a  century,  to 
attain  at  last  our  present  Coustituticn,  which 
it  is  my  wish   to   preserve,  but  which   our 
Ministers     wish     to    destroy    in    ordor     to 
substitute  for  it  the  scheme  of  Confederation, 
This  historical  sketch  will  demonstrate  to  us 
that  we  owe   no  gratitude   to   England  for 
those  politi<nl  reforms  which  were  obtained 
for  us  only  through  the  unyielding  patriot- 
ism of  our  great  men,  who,  with  intelligence, 
energy    and    perseverance,    valiantly    strove 
for  the  Ci>nstant  defence  of  our  rights.     We 
shall   also    see    that,  if    they   obtained    the 
system    of    government    and     the    political 
liberty  for  which  they  struggled,  it  was  be- 
cause we  had  for  our  ueig'  bors  the  states  of 
the  A^ierican  Union,  and  that  side  by  side 
with  the  evil  wns  its  remedy.     We  shall  see 
that  whenever  England  stood  in  need  of  us 
to  defend  her  power,  she  made  concessions 
to  us  J  but  that  when   the  danger  was  once 
over,  colonial  fanaticism  always  attempted  to 
withdraw  those  concessions  and  to  destroy 
the  influence  and  the  liberties  cf  the  French 
race.     Each  page  of  ihe  parliamentary  his- 
tory ot  our  country  offers  a  fresh  proof  of 
this.     But  we  then  had  men  who  knew  how 
to  struggle  for  a  noble  cause,  and  who  did 
not   shrink    from    the    danger    which   that 
struggle  entailed.  I  hope,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
we  have   still    some   of  those   men    without 
fear  and  without  reproach  in  Lower  Canada  ; 
I  hope  the   present  Ministry  are  sini;ere  at 
the  moment  when   they  are  giving  up  the 
guarantees  of  the  existing  Constitution.     If 
they  can  arrive  at  a  happy  conclusion  with 
their  scheme   of  Confederation,  1  shall  be 
the  first  to  congratulate  them,  and  posterity 
will  thank  them  for  having  had   the  hardi 
hood  to  propose  so  vast  a  Kchome.      But  I 
must  say  that  there  are  men  as  intelligent 
and  as  devoted  to  the   dearest  interests  of 
our  country  as  the  hon.  gentlemen  who  are 
sitting  on  the  MiniKterial  benches,  who  are 


convinced  that  this  scheme,  far  from  being 
a  remedy  for  existing  difficulties,   is  but  a 
new  engine  prepared  by  our  natural  adver- 
saries more  easily  to  destroy  the  influence 
ol'  the  French  race  in  America,  an  influence 
for  the  preservation  of  which  we  have  had 
to   fight  step  by  step  ever  sines   the  cora- 
menceu-vut  of  English  domination  in  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  first  political  struggle 
between  the   French   and  the   English  ele- 
ments in    the  country  occurred  only  a   few 
years  after   the  treaty   of  capitulation    had 
been  signed.     The  general  then  command- 
ing in  Canada  established  a  system  of  mili- 
tary   government.     There    may   have   been 
ground  for  such  a  system  after  so  long  and 
bloody  a  war   as   that  which  was  just  over, 
and    which,  bad    left    behind    it    so    much 
legitimate   animosity   in    the  hearts   of  the 
conijueror    and    the    conquered.     However, 
the  tr.  aty  of  capitulation  declared  that  the 
Cauadiaus  should  be  "  subjects  of  the  king," 
and  as  such  they  were  entitled  to  represen- 
tative government.     The  faith  of  treaty  was 
therefore  violated  from  the   commencement 
of  the  English  domination  in  Canada,  and  as 
I  shall  have  the  honor  of  shewing,  this  was 
but  the  first  link  in  the  long  chain  of  arbi- 
trary acts  to  which  we  '.  ave  been  subjected  . 
since    that    period.       The    following,    Mr. 
Speaker,  is  the  first   aggressive  act  that  I 
shall  cite  in  support  of  my  statement  : — 

In  17G4  General  Murray,  in  accordance  with 
his  instructions,  formed  a  new  council,  uniting  the 
executive,  legislative  and  judicial  power,  and 
composed  of  the  lieutenant-governors  of  Mont- 
real and  Thiee  Rivers,  the  chief  justice,  the  in- 
spector of  customs,  and  eight  hifluential  persons. 
But  one  obscure  man  of  the  country  was  taken  to 
make  up  the  number. 

This  was   the   first   act  that  had  to  be  com- 
plained of. — 

It  was  proposed  to  take  possession  of  the 
bishopric  of  Quebec,  together  with  the  property 
attached  to  it,  i  nd  to  confer  it  on  the  Bishop  of 
London,  and  to  grant  to  the  Catholics  only  limited 
toleration,  to  exact  from  them  the  oath  of  ulle- 
L'iance,  and  to  declare  them  incapable,  as  Ciitholics, 
of  holding  any  puhlio  olHco.  .luatice  was  udniin- 
istered  by  men  ignorant  of  the  laws  of  the  country, 
and  in  a  language  with  which  the  Cauiidians  were 
unaciiuainted. 

It  is  unnecessary  to  make  any  lengthened 
comments  on  the  entirely  unjust  manner  in 
which  the  Canadians  were  thus  treated,  and 
on  the  flagrant  violations  of  the  conditions 
,  of  the   treaty  of  capitulation  of   Montreal. 


605 


But  we  shall  soon  see  that  the  fear  of  im- 
pending danger  was  alone  eifective  to  obtain 
for  us  political  liberty,  for  at  that  time  the 
French  element  alone  could  sustain  the 
English  power  in  America  : — 

The  English  partisans  assembled  at  Quebec  in 
October,  1773,  to  prepare  an  address  with  the 
view  of  obtaining  a  House  of  Assembly. 

And  this  was  the  reply  made  to  them  by  the 
Imperial  Government  through  one  of  the 
Ministry : — 

As  to  an  Assembly  of  Protestants  only,  I  see 
no  objection  to  the  establishment  of  onft  ;  but  the 
danger  of  disobliging  the  Catholics  of  the  Pro- 
vince, who  are  so  much  superior  in  number.  *    * 

This  was  the  sole  consideration  w!  ich  was 
effective  to  prevent  the  carrying  out  of  the 
proposition  of  1773,  to  establish  a  Canadian 
House  of  Assembly  composed  of  Protestants 
only,  and  yet  out  of  a  population  of  80,000 
souls,  500  families  only  were  at  the  time 
Knglish  and  Protestants.  What  greater  in- 
justice could  be  done  us?  But  tbe  English 
element  made  yet  other  propositions  to  the 
Imperial  Grovernment : — 

Six  dififerent  suggestions  were  made  in  relation 
to  the  new  forms  of  government  which  it  was 
wished  to  introduce :  1st — The  establishment  of 
a  House  of  Assembly  composed  exclusively  of 
Protestants,  as  the  English  understood  the  procla- 
mation of  the  month  of  October,  1873,  to  pro- 
vide, was  asked  for.  2nd — An  Assembly  com- 
posed of  equal  numbers  of  Catholics  and  Protest- 
ants. 3rd — An  Assembly  composed  almost 
entirely  of  Protestants,  with  a  limited  number  of 
Catholics.  4th — To  delegate  to  the  Governor 
and  his  council  sufficient  power  to  control  the 
province  by  increasing  the  number  of  the  members 
who  should  be  all  Protestants  j  or,  .5th — Protes- 
tants and  Catholics.  6th — Or  again,  Protestants 
■with  a  restricted  and  limited  number  of  Catholics. 

Thus,  from  the  very  first  attempt  made  to 
give  to  French  Canada  a  political  organiza- 
tion, we  find  the  most  shameless  exclusive- 
ness  forming  the  basis  of  the  propositions 
suggested.  There  were  hardly  3,000  Eng- 
lish colonists  against  75,000  French,  and 
already  we  were  denied  any  representation 
in  the  Governor's  Council,  there  to  set  forth 
the  requirement's  of  the  country  and  to 
watch  ovtr  the  defence  of  our  risrhts. — 

The  Cursitor  Baron  (Maseres)  prepared  a  bill 
by  which  he  suggested  the  raising  of  the  number 
of  the  members  of  the  Council  to  thirty-one  ;  that 
the  latter  should  be  independent  of  the  governor, 
instead  of  being  subject  to  suspension  ;  that  the 
quorum  should  be  fixed  at  seventeen  ;  and  further 
that  it  should  not  have  the  power  of  imposing 


taxes;  that  it  should  be  appointed  for  seven 
years,  and  should  be  composed  of  Protestants  ; 
provisions  which  were  calculated  to  exclude  from 
the  management  of  affairs  and  from  office  the 
French  and  Catholic  element. 

Always  exclusion  of  Catholics,  and  conse- 
quently of  the  French  element.  But  what 
resulted  ?  Did  the  French  remain  unmoved 
in  view  of  the  danger  which  was  impending 
over  them  ?  No  !  On  the  receipt  of  the 
news  they  signed  petitions,  and  obtained 
from  England  the  justice  which  was  refused 
to  them  here  : — 

Our  unfortunate  ancestors,  however,  did  not 
remain  idle  under  the  threats  and  injustice  of 
their  adversaries — the  colonies  were  possessed  of 
men  capable  of  judging  and  of  foreseeing  events. 
Petitions  were  prepared  and  signed,  in  the  mouth 
of  December,  1773,  of  which  the  tenor  was  as 
follows:  "In  the  year  1764  Your  Majesty  was 
pleased  to  terminate  the  military  government  in 
this  colony  and  to  introduce  civil  government 
into  it,  and  from  the  date  of  those  changes  we 
began  to  be  aware  of  the  inconveniences  resulting 
from  the  British  laws,  which  up  to  that  time  had 
been  unknown  to  us.  Our  old  citizens  who  had, 
without  cost,  settled  our  difficulties,  were  thanked  ; 
that  militia,  which  considered  it  glorious  to  bear 
that  great  name,  was  suppressed.  We  were, 
indeed,  allowed  the  right  of  being  juror.i,  but  at 
the  same  time  we  were  shev/n  that  there  were 
obstacles  to  our  holding  office,  The  introduction 
of  the  laws  of  England  was  talked  of — laws  which 
are  infinitely  wise  and  useful  for  the  Mother 
Country,  but  which  could  not  be  made  to  coincide 
with  our  customs  without  overturning  our  fortunes 
and  entirely  destroying  our  possessions.  •  *  * 
Deign,  illustrious  and  gracious  Sovereign,  to 
remove  these  fears  by  granting  us  our  ancient 
laws,  privileges  and  customs,  with  the  limits  of 
Canada  such  as  they  used  to  be.  *  *  * 
Deign  to  distribute  equally  your  benefits  to  all 
your  subjects,  without  distinction  *  *  * 
And  to  grant  us  in  common  with  the  rest,  the 
r:ghts  and  privileges  of  English  citizens ;  then 
*  *  *  we  shall  be  always  ready  to  sacrifice 
them  for  the  glory  of  our  prince  and  the  well- 
being  of  our  country." 

And  such  has  always  been  the  sentiment  of 
the  French  population  in  America;  it  has 
always  been  loyal  to  authority,  from  the 
moment  of  obtaining  that  protection  to  which 
it  was  entitlea.  In  view  of  the  difficult 
position  in  which  England  was  placed,  the 
requests  of  the  Canadians  having  been 
favorably  received,  constituted  the  basis  of 
the  Act  of  1774.  Circumstances  were  indeed 
difficult.  The  policy  of  the  Mother  Country 
had  alienated  her  subjects  in  New  England. 
The  idea  of  taxing  the  colonies  to  provide 


606 


for  the  requirements  of  the  Iraperial  Trea- 
sury had  given  rise  to  deep  indignation  on 
this  side  of  the  Atlantic.  And  that  ill- 
advised  colonial  policy  it  was  that  lost  to 
England  her  American  colonies.  Taught 
by  this  revolt,  England  perceived  that  sbe 
must  grant  greater  political  liberties  to  her 
French  colonists  in  Canada.  They  would 
not  withdraw  themselves  from  English  dom- 
ination ;  on  the  contrary,  they  wished  to 
remain  under  her  flag,  for  they  feared  being 
drawn  into  the  neighboring  republic,  the 
future  greatness  of  which  was  not  at  the 
time  foreseen.  Impelled  by  the  dread  of 
losing  what  p- ssessions  remained  to  her  in 
America,  England  bad  to  yield  the  conces- 
sions which  Canada  asked  fur  from  her  at  a 
time  when  the  war  of  independence  called 
for  the  cooperation  of  the  French  element. 
Garneau  says  : — 

When  war  with  the  English  colonies  in  America 
was  apprehended,  prejudice  was  overcome  in 
order  to  make  the  Canadia,ns  favorably  disposed, 
by  granting  them  the  Act  of  1774,  known  as  the 
"  Act  of  Quebec."  This  imperial  statute,  estab- 
lishing a  Legislative  Council,  entrusted,  together 
with  the  Governor,  with  the  duty  of  making  laws, 
again  guaranteed  to  us  the  free  exercise  of  our 
religion,  ainiained  our  laws  and  our  customs, 
and  released  the  Catholics  from  the  necessity,  in 
order  to  become  members  of  the  Council,  of 
taking  an  oath  contrary  to  their  religion. 

This  was  what  the  war  of  the  independence 
of  the  United  States  was  worth  to  us.  Eng. 
land  saw  that  if  she  dissatisfied  the  Canadians 
there  would  be  an  end  to  her  power  in 
America,  and  then  only  did  she  grant  to 
French  Canada  the  Quebec  Act,  which 
was  a  step  towards  the  obtaining  of  greater 
liberties.  The  other  day,  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  for  Lower  Canada  read  us  several 
passages  irom  our  history,  to  prove  to  us 
that  French-Canadian  hands  had  alone  pre- 
vented the  anniiiilatioii  of  English  domin- 
ation on  this  continent.  But  he  did  not 
draw  all  the  conclu.sions  which  he  might 
have  derived  from  the  premises  which  he 
adduced,  and  the  facts  which  he  cite  i.  He 
ought  to  have  told  us  whether,  in  the  face 
of  those  services  valiantly  renderi^d,  it  is 
just  that  the  Knglish  element,  supported  by 
its  number,  should  to-day  impose  upon  us 
representation  based  on  population ;  ought 
the  English  (;leme.it,  by  this  ag;;rcssivo 
measure,  to  shake  our  loyalty  to  England 
by  creating  a  system  of  government  which 
}B  repugnant  to  us,  and  in  which  the  French 


element  will  lose  its  just  share  of  influence 
in  the  administration  of  the  afiairs  of  our 
country  ?  At  this  period  it  was  that  an 
address  was  sent  to  the  Canadians  by  the 
American  Congress,  calling  upon  them  to 
unite  with  them  in  the  insurrection  against 
the  Mother  Country: — ''Seize,"  said  the 
Congress,  "  seize  the  opportunity  which 
Providence  itself  affords  you  ;  if  you  act 
in  such  way  as  to  preserve  your  liberty, 
you  will  be  effectually  free."  Mr.  Speaker, 
everyone  knows  the  reply  made  by  the 
Canadians  to  this  appeal.  Armies  invaded 
our  territory,  and  took  possession  of  a 
part  of  the  country.  Quebec  alone  held 
out,  thanks  to  a  garrison  composed  in  part 
of  French-Canadian'*.  And  if  we  are  now 
sheltered  beneath  the  folds  of  the  British 
flag,  it  is  to  French-Canadians  that  we  owe 
it,  and  it  is  them  that  England  ought  to  thank. 
But  if  it  is  proposed  now  to  thrust  upon  us  a 
political  system,  the  sole  object  of  which  is 
to  submerge  us  in  a  hostile  majority,  we  have 
to  thank  the  English  for  it — the  English  for 
whom  our  lathers  saved  the  country  in  177o. 
After  the  defeat  of  the  Americans  before 
Quebec,  Congress  did  not  lose  courage.  A 
second  manifesto  was  despatched  to  Canada, 
promising  fresh  reinforcements;  eminent 
men  even  came  into  the  country;  Franklin, 
Chase  and  Carroll  in  vain  solicited  the 
Canadians  to  unite  with  them.  Dr.  Carroll, 
who  died  in  1815  Bishop  of  Baltimore,  was 
sent  among  the  Canadian  clergy  with  no  bet- 
ter success,  and  all  hope  of  obtaining  posses- 
sion of  this  important  colony  had  at  last  to 
be  relinquished.  These  facts  necessarily 
tended  to  enlighten  public  opinion,  and  Eng- 
land perceived  that  it  would  be  better  for  her 
to  comply  with  the  just  demands  of  the 
Canadian  people,  in  order  that  reliance 
migfit  be  placed  upon  them  in  the  day  of 
danger,  and  that  they  might  be  used  as  a 
rampart  against  the  United  States.  Then  it 
was  that  a  more  liberal  Constituiion  was 
granted  to  us,  that  of  1791 : — 

Pitt,  taught  by  the  former  faults  of  England 
in  the  administration  of  the  United  States,  and  by 
the  great  example  of  hia  fathef,  Lord  Chatham, 
presented  to  the  lloiuso  of  Commons  a  bill  for 
granting  to  Canada  a  new  Constitution,  sunctiun- 
iug  the  elective  principle  and  dividing  the  colony 
into  two  di.stinct  provinces,  Upper  ;ind  Lower 
Canada.  The  bill,  after  underiroin;:  some  amend- 
ments  (one  of  which  was  to  increase  the  repre- 
sentation from  thirty  to  fifty  members),  passed  on 
a  division  in  both  Houses.  The  celebrated  states- 
man HiKKE,  when  giving  in  hit  assent  to  the  bill, 


607 


said:  "To  attempt  to  unite  people  who  diflFer  in 
language,  in  laws  and  iu  manners,  is  very  absurd. 
To  do  so  is  to  sow  the  seeds  of  discord,  a  thing 
mo5t  undoubtedly  fatal  to  the  establishment  of  a 
new  government.  Let  their  Constitution  be 
adapted  to  their  nature,  the  only  solid  basis  of 
every  government."  The  no  less  celebrated 
leader  of  the  Whig  party,  Fox,  opposed  to  the 
division  of  the  provinces,  spoke  to  obtain  an  elec- 
tive Legislative  Council  for  Canada.  "  With  such 
a  colony  as  this,"  observed  that  orator,  "  which 
is  susceptible  of  progress,  it  is  important  that  no 
ground  should  be  given  her  to  envy  her  neighbors. 
Canada  ought  to  remain  attached  to  Great  Bri- 
tain by  the  choice  of  her  inhabitants ;  it  cannot 
be  preserved  in  any  other  way.  But  that  this 
may  be  so,  the  inhabitants  must  feel  that  their 
situation  is  not  worse  than  that  of  the  Americans." 

This  CoDstitutiou  of  1791  was  a  great  con- 
cession to  Lower  Canada.  At  last  it  had  an 
elective  chamber,  in  which  the  people  mio;ht 
express  their  views,  and  through  which  they 
could  convey  their  wishes  to  the  foot  of  the 
Throne.  And  also  at  once  was  seen  a  gene- 
ration of  eminent  men,  of  whom  history  wiil 
honorably  preserve  the  sainted  names,  repre- 
senting the  interests  which  were  entrusted 
to  them  with  wonderful  skill  and  most 
uncommon  success  : — 

The  elections  were  fixed  for  the  month  of  July, 
and  the  meeting  of  the  Houses  for  the  month  of 
December.  Of  the  fifty  members  elected  sixteen 
were  English,  notwithstanding  the  constant  oppo- 
sition which  these  latter  had  displayed  to  French- 
Canadian  interests. 

Thus  on  the  organizing  of  the  first  elective 
chamber,  and  in  spite  of  all  the  opposition 
which  the  French-Canadian  party  had  met 
with  from  the  English  p-irty,  we  fiud  sixteen 
English  members  elected  iu  great  part  by 
the  votes  of  individuals  of  our  nationality. 
In  this  House,  some  days  since,  we  heard 
Upper  Canadian  membars,  praising  our 
liberality,  and  acknowledging  that  never  had 
national  or  religious  fanaticism  been  display- 
ed by  us.  That  is  true  ;  we  are  essentially 
liberal  and  tolerant,  and  a  sufficient  proof  of 
it,  is  given  in  the  most  striking  manner,  Dy 
the  number  of  members  of  this  House  who, 
although  of  religion  and  origin  differing  from 
ours,  yet  represent  counties  in  great  part  or 
exclusively  French  and  Catholic.  This  is  a 
subject  of  pride  for  us.  Unfortunately  we 
have  no  return  in  kind  made  to  us,  and  we 
do  not  meet  with  the  like  liberality  from  the 
English  population.  Whenever  it  is  in  a 
majority,  it  closes  to  us  the  door  of  honors 
and  of  office;  it  excludes  us  everywhere, 
where  it  ia  powerful  enough  to  do  so.    From 


the  very  first  Parliament  of  Lower  Canada, 
the  English,  although  in  an  insignificant 
minority,  endeavored  to  proscribe  the  use  of 
the  French  language,  and  from  that  day 
began  between  the  two  races  the  same  con- 
tests of  which  we  are  to-day  witnesses.  We 
are  told  that  times  have  changed  ;  it  is  true, 
but  if  the  attempts  at  oppression  are  less 
barefaced,  if  they  are  concealed  under  an 
exterior  better  calculated  to  deceive  us,  it  is 
only  because  we  are  more  numerous  now 
than  we  were  then,  and  that  greater  dread 
than  ever  is  entertained  of  the  vicinity  of 
the  American  Union,  in  which,  now  more 
than  ever,  it  would  be  easy  for  our  population 
to  find  a  powerful  remedy  for  the  evils  of 
which  it  might  have  to  complain.  But  let 
us  see,  Mr.  Speaker,  what  occurred  at  the 
opening  of  our  first  House  of  Assembly.  I 
quote  an  author  wo  has  always  supported 
the  party  of  the  Honorable  Attorney  G-eneral 
East : — 

Parliament  opened  on  the  17th  December,  in 
the  Episcopal  Palace,  which  had  been  occupied 
by  the  Government  since  the  conquest.  A  Speaker 
had  to  be  chosen,  and  Mr.  J.  Panet  was  proposed. 
Then  it  was  that  the  English  members  were 
found  to  renew  their  attempts  to  obtain  the  supre- 
macy and  to  slight  the  interests  of  those  by  whom 
they  had  been  elected.  Without  the  least  delicacy 
and  in  spite  of  their  being  in  a  minority,  they 
proposed  in  opposition  to  Mr.  Panet,  Messrs. 
Grant,  McGill  and  Jordan  Mr.  Panet's  elec- 
tion was  carried  by  a  majority  of  28  to  18,  two 
Canadians  bavins:  voted  acrainst  him.  The  hatred 
which  the  English  party  bore  to  the  name  of 
Canadian  manifested  itself  again  when  a  proposi- 
tion was  made  that  the  minutes  of  the  proceedings 
of  the  House  should  be  prepared  in  both  lan- 
guages. A  lively  and  animated  debate  arose 
between  the  two  opposite  panies,  and  this  very 
reasonable  demand  was  treated  as  a  species  of 
rebellion  against  the  Mother  Country.  The 
French  members  were  accused  of  insubordination; 
ihe  motives  which  induced  the  act  seemed  to  be 
misunderstood,  and  attempts  were  even  made  to 
intimidate  them  ;  but  it  was  in  vain.  The  un- 
assailable arguments  upon  which  the  Canadians 
rested  their  claim,  and  their  words,  like  their  elo- 
quence, bearing  the  stamp  of  dignity,  finally 
triumphed  over  the  attacks  of  their  fanatical  op- 
ponents. 

Thus  the  French  element  demanded  the 
preparation  of  the  proceedings  of  the  House 
in  its  own  language,  but  we  find  that  the 
English  element  opposed  it  with  all  the 
power  at  its  command.  This  was  regarded 
as  rebellion  against  the  Mother  Country  !  It 
can  hardly  be  believed.  Here  was  a  legisla- 
tive body  almost  entirely  French  in  its  com- 


608 


position;  and  at  the  very  first  sitting  the  few 
English  members  which  it  contained,  after 
having  attempted  to  force  on  the  very  great 
majority  a  Speaker  of  their  own  origin,  sub- 
sequently refused  to  nine-tenths  of  the  popu- 
lation of  the  country  the  imprescriptible 
right  to  their  language  as  the  official  lan- 
guage. ]jut  they  were  counting  without 
taking  into  consideration  the  resolute  firm- 
ness of  which  the  Canadians  of  old  so  often 
gave  proof  in  the  defence  of  their  rights ; 
and  I  can  convey  to  the  honorable  members 
ot  this  House  no  higher  opinion  of  the  lofty 
sentiments  of  these  great  patriots  of  the 
olden  time,  than  by  quoting  the  re- 
marks made  by  one  of  the  members,  Mr. 
DeLotbiniJire,  during  the  debate  in  ques- 
tion : — 

The  second  reason,  which  is  to  assimilate  and 
attach  more  promptly  tl.e  Canadian  race  to  the 
Mother  Country,  ought  to  set  aside  every  other 
consideration,  it'  we  were  not  certain  of  the  fidelity 
of  the  people  of  this  province  j  but  let  us  do  jus- 
tice to  their  conduct  at  all  times,  and  especially 
let  us  remember  the  year  1775.  These  Canadians, 
who  spoke  nothing  but  French,  showed  their  at- 
tachment to  their  sovereign  in  a  manner  which 
admitted  of  no  doubt  being  cast  upon  it.  They 
assisted  in  the  defence  of  the  province.  This 
city,  these  walls,  this  very  House  in  which  I  have 
the  honor  to  raise  my  voice,  were,  in  part,  saved 
by  their  Zealand  their  courage.  We  saw  them 
unite  with  the  faithful  subjects  of  His  Majesty 
and  repulse  the  attacks  made  by  people  who 
spoke  very  good  Engliih,  upon  this  town.  It  is 
not  uniformity  of  language,  therefore,  Mr. 
Speakkb,  that  makes  people  more  faithful  or  more 
united  among  themselves.  To  convince  ourselves 
of  this,  let  us  glance  at  France  at  this  moment 
and  at  all  ihe  liingdoms  of  Europe.  No,  I  re- 
peat, it  is  not  uniformity  of  language  that  main- 
tains and  ensures  the  fidelity  of  a  people  ;  it  is 
the  certainty  of  its  present  good  fortune,  and  of 
this  our  people  are  at  present  perfectly  convinced. 
They  know  that  they  have  a  good  king—  the 
best  of  kings.  They  know  that  they  are  under  a 
just  and  liberal  government;  and,  lastly,  they 
know  thai  a  change  or  a  revolution  would  entail 
certain  lo^s  upon  them,  and  thoy  will  ever  be 
prepared  to  oppose  any  such  proceed mg  with 
vigor  and  courage. 

Mr.  DUFllESNE  (Montcalm)  —  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  hope  the  honorable  member  lor 
Richelieu  will  excuse  my  interrupting  him 
for  a  moment.  I  wish  to  ask  a  simple  que.-*- 
tion.  Will  the  hon.  member  iutorm  mo 
what  ditVerencc  there  is  between  a  member 
who  reads  liis  speech  and  another  who  reads 
the  history  of  Canada  to  the  Hoose  '{ 

Mr.  PimilAUryr— 1  reply  to  the  hon. 
member  lor  Montcalm,  that  the  speech  read 


to  us  by  the  hon.  member  for  Montmorency, 
the  other  evening,  was  written  out  from  the 
first  line  to  the  last.  Not  only  did  he  read 
to  us  the  passages  which  he  took  from  history 
or  the  quotations  which  he  made  from  the 
speeches  of  other  members  of  this  House, 
but  also  his  own  remarks  on  those  ex- 
tracts. I  only  lead  here  quotations  from 
authors,  which  serve  as  vouchers  upon  which 
to  base  my  arguments.  If  I  did  not  read 
them,  it  might  be  suppo.sed  that  I  only 
expressed  my  own  private  opinions,  whereas 
they  are  those  of  a  friend  of  the  present 
Government,  Although  I  coincide  in  the 
ideas  and  opinions  which  I  quote,  yet  I  do 
not  choose  to  appropriate  them  as  my  own, 
but  wish  to  leave  all  the  merit  and  the 
responsibility  of  them  to  the  author  of  them. 

Mr.  DUFRESNE  (Montcalm)  —  The 
only  difference  I  can  discover  between  the 
hon.  member  for  Montmorency  and  the  hon. 
member  for  Richelieu,  is  that  the  former 
read  his  own  work,  and  that  the  latter 
is  rendering  hijjself  guilty  of  plagiarism. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Mr.  PERKAULT  —  Everyone  knows, 
Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  hon.  member  for 
Montcalm  has  no  reason  to  fear  a  similar 
accusation,  for  the  excellent  re:ison  that  his 
writings  and  his  speeches  are  nowhere  to  bo 
found.  At  the  time  when  the  member  for 
Montcalm  interrupted  me  so  very  inoffensively, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  was  quoting  a  passage  from 
M.  De  LoTBixifciiE's  speech  on  the  sub- 
ject of  the  opposition  offered  to  the  publica- 
tion of  the  proceedings  of  the  House  of  As- 
sembly in  1791  in  French,  in  order  to  demon- 
strate the  spiritofexclusiveness  which  animat- 
ed the  English  element  from  the  commence- 
ment of  our  parliamentary  system,  notwith- 
standing the  insignificant  minority  in  which 
they  were  at  the  time.  But  that  barefaced 
attempt  was  unsuccessful,  and  the  amendment 
proposed,  having  for  its  object  the  pros- 
cription of  the  French  language,  was  refused 
by  two-thirds  of  the  House.  It  was  finally 
resolved  that  the  minutes  of  the  proceedings 
of  the  House  should  be  in  both  languages,  and 
that  the  English  or  the  French  version  should 
be  the  text  of  the  Legislative  acts  according 
as  they  related  to  the  English  or  the  French 
laws.  Thus  opposition  to  the  French  clement 
manifested  itself  from  the  commencement  of 
our  parliamentary  system  in  this  country,  by 
the  refusal  to  adopt  the  French  as  the  official 
language.  But,  thanks  to  our  sturdy  resist- 
ance, the  use  of  that  language  has  always  been 
one  of  our  privileges,  a  privilege  which  has 


609 


always  been  preserved  in  all  its  integrity  until 
its  introduction  into  the  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation which  is  proposed  to  us.      Had  it  not 
been  for  the  courage  and  energy  displayed  by 
the  men  of  those  days,  the  French  element 
would  have  lost  ground,  and  its   importance 
would  have  diminished,  so  that  at  last  it  would 
have  been  assimilated  by  the  English  element. 
At  that  time,  our  public  men  already  wished 
for  responsible  government,  and  we  shall  see 
that  the  struggle  which  they  carried  on  for 
half  a  century  in  order  to  obtain  it,  was  pro- 
ductive of  no  important  result,  until  they  had 
recourse  to   rebellion ;   and  it  is   since   that 
gloomy  period  of  our  history   that  we  have 
our  present  Constitution  and  responsible  gov- 
ernment.     Now  that  we  have  obtained  our 
most   sacred    political    rights    after   passing 
through  a  century  of  persecution  and  through 
rivers  of  blood,  shed  on   honorable  fields  of 
battle  and  on  the  scaffold,  are  we  going  to  re- 
linquish them  in  order  to  accept  a  new  Con- 
stitution, the  evident  object  of  which  is  to  do 
away  with  our  influence  as  a  race  in   this 
country  ?     Has  not  the  French  majority,  for 
fifteen  years,  always  carried  its  point  in  the 
Executive  and  in  the  Legislature,  thanks  to 
sectional    equality    in    the    representation  ? 
Why  should  we  then  relinquish  the  advan- 
tages conferred  upon  us  by  our  present  Con- 
stitution, for  a  scheme  of  Confederation   in 
which  we  shall  be  in  a  minority,  and  which  is 
fraught  with  danger  to  us  and  to  our  institu- 
tions ?      The  responsibility  assumed  by  the 
French  section  of  the  Ministry  in  uniting  the 
whole  of  Upper    Canada   with  the   English 
minority  of  Lower  Canada  is  enormous.   And 
now,   at  this  very  time,  should  that   section 
wish  to  withdraw  from  the  struggle,  perceiv- 
ing the  danger  for  the  future,  it  could  not  do 
so ;  it  would  be  carried  away  by  the  torrent 
of  the  English  element.       It  is  to  shew  the 
danger  that  exists  for  the  future,  jMr.  Speak- 
er, that  I  am  now  presenting  a  sketch  of  the 
struggles   of  the   past.       The  circumstances 
which  gave  rise  to  them  still  exist,  and  will 
entail  the  same  attempts  at  aggression  ;  I  must 
say  this  to  stay  my  countrymen,  while  there 
is  yet  time,  on  the  verge  of  the  abyss  towards 
which  they   are  allowing   themselves   to  be 
drawn.     From  1809  Le  Canadien  discussed, 
in   an  animated  manner,  the  question  of  re- 
sponsible government,  and  took  to  heart  the 
interests  of  its  fellow-countrymen.     A  cry  of 
violence  and  treason  was  raised.      But,  says 
Garneau  the  historian  : — 

We  have  carefully  perused  the  journal  in  ques- 
78 


tion,  page  by  page,  up  to  the  time  of  its  seiziu-e 
by  the  authorities,  and  we  found  combined  with  a 
demand  for  rights  which  were  perfectly  con- 
stitutional, an  ever-recurring  expression  of  the 
most  unbounded  loyalty  and  attachment  to  the 
English  monarchy. 

The  important  question  of  the  voting  of  the 
supplies  was   also  the  subject   of  the   most 
violent  debates.    Mr.  Bbdard  insisted  on  this 
imprescriptible  right  of  every  legislative  body 
under   the  Crown  of  England.     But  it  was 
constantly  refused  by  the  English  minority  in 
the  House  and  by  the  Mother  Country.     Led 
with  greater   strength   by   Mr.  Bedard,  the 
House  .by  a  large  majority  declared  itself  in 
favor  of  the  voting  of  the  supplies   by   the 
representatives  of  the  people.     In  the  divi- 
sion  which  was  taken,  we  find  the  English 
element  on  one  side,  and  the  French  element 
on  the  other.     I  ask  you,  Mr.  Speaker,  what 
rights  are  left  to  the  British  subject  if  that  of 
voting  the  supplies  is  taken  from  him ;  if  he 
has  not  the  control  of  the  funds  levied  from 
the  people  for  the  administration  of  the  affairs 
of  state, —  if  he  is    thus   deprived    of  the 
most  important  of  the  privileges  which  are 
secured   by   constitutional  government?     Is 
this   great    injustice    to   be    consummated? 
Shall  the   most  precious    of   their  rights  be 
refused  to  the  representatives  of  the  people  ? 
Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  there  will  be  no  shrinking 
from  this  infamous  proceeding.     Our   most 
eminent  patriots,  those  whose  eloquent  voice 
on   every  occasion   uemanded  our  threatened 
liberties,  were  the  first  to  be  accused  of  treason 
for  having  made  such  a  demand,  and  then 
confined  for  fourteen  months  in  the  gloomy 
cells  of  a  prison,  regardless  of  the  articles  of 
the  capitulation  of  Moi.treal,  which  guaran- 
teed to  us  the  rights  and  liberties  of  British 
subjects.     Tliat  proposal  to  vote  our  public 
expenditure,   which   now    appears   to   us   so 
simple,  then  raised  throughout  the  country  a 
violent  tempest,  which  was  never  entirely  al- 
layed until  the  annihilation  of   the  existing 
Constitution.     In  spite  of  the  rage   and  cal- 
umny which    was  displayed,  Mr.   BEDARD 's 
proposition  was    carried,   and  the  following 
is   the  division  upon  it : — 

Ix  Favor. — Messrs.  Bedard,  Durocher,  T.  L. 
Papiueau,  Lee,  Borgia,  Meunier,  Taschereau, 
Viger,  Drapeau,  Beruier,  St.  Julien,  Hebert,  Du- 
clol,  Robitaille,  Huot,  Caron,  C.  Panel,  Le  Roi, 
Blanchet,  Debartzch,  and  Beauchamp — 21. 

Agaixst.— Messrs  McCord,  Bowen,  Mure,  Bell, 
Dexechaud,  Jones  of  Bedford,  Blackwood,  Gugy, 
and  Ross  Cuthbert — 9. 

A  single  English  name,    that  of  Mr,   Leb, 


610 


appears  among  the  French-Canadian  phalanx, 
but  in  compensation  wc  find  a  French-Cana- 
dian name  in  the  list  of  those  who  voted  for 
that  inexcusnble  denial  of  a  right  which  we 
were  to  purchase  so  dearly.     It  is  not  my 
desire,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  nuke  any  comments 
on   this  division,  but  I  cannot  rcfrdn   from 
observing  that  it  demonstrates   that  on  every 
occasion  we  have  had  to  struggle  against  the 
encroachments  and  antagonism  of  the  English 
element  in  Canada.     Yet  there  was  no  cessa- 
tion in  the  demand  for  tlie  voting  of  the  sup- 
plies so  long  as  it  was  not  obtained,  and  it  is 
a  remiirkable  fact  that  during  the  whole  time 
that  the  French-Canadians  were  in  a  m.-ijority 
in   our  country.    England   systematically    re- 
fused  us   our   most  just   demands   and   the 
control  of  the  general   administration.     Still 
more,  the  most  arbitrary  acts  were  thrust  upon 
us  by  the  Mother  Country,  aided  in  every  m  ay, 
moreover,    by    colonial    English    fanaticism, 
which  lost  no  opportunity  of  turning  its  well- 
known  exclusiveness  to  our  disadvantage.  But 
60   soon  as   their  countrymen  exceeded  us  in 
number,   so  soon  as  the  English  element  ob- 
tained   a    preponderance    in    the    House   of 
Assembly  by  means  of  the  union  of  1840,  the 
English  authorities  granted  us  all  the  political 
rights  for  which  we  had  asked  iu  vain  for  a 
century.  They  perfectly  well  knew  that  those 
rights  would   be  controlled,   and  in  case   of 
need  utilised  against  us  by  an  essentially  hos- 
tile rcpresent;itive  majority.     But,   thanks  to 
the  patriotism  of  our  men  of  that  day,   we 
succeeded  in  baffling  the  schemes  of  the  Brit- 
isli  Government.     Up  to  the  union  those  men 
had    had    to    keep    up    a   constant   struggle, 
marked  by  a  degree  of  heroism  worthy  of  the 
cause    which    tliey  served,  against  the  Eng- 
lish autocracy,   which    was  banded    together 
against  our  countrymen.     We,  their  descend- 
ants, are  ready  to  recommence  the  same  strug- 
gle with   the  same  energy,  to   maintain   our 
rights  so   dearly   purchased,  and   to  preserve 
the  inlieritance  wl)ich   wo  have  received  and 
wliich  it  is  cur  wish  to  transmit  intact  to  the 
children   of  the  soil.  (  Ue  ir,   he  ir.)     Let  us 
now  see  what  was  the  condition  of  the  liberty 
of  tiie  press  and  of  the  liberty  of  the  subject 
at   this  gloomy   period   ol'  our  parliamentary 
history.     The  Canadien  having  dared  to  ask 
for  responsible  government,  and  Mr.  B^DAUD 
having  obtained   in   the  House  a  majority  of 
twenty-one  against  nine  in  I'avor  of  the  voting 
of   the  hupplies,  the    Executive   Council  re- 
solved  at  any  cost  to  injure  the  iuliueuco  of 
the  Canadian,    and   to   paralyze    the  efforts 


of  the  Canadian  leaders.  It  kept  a  watch  on 
the  Canadien  to  find  grounds  of  accusa- 
tion, and  on  the  deposition  of  two  in- 
dividuals, caused  the  printing  office  to  be 
seized  by  a  squad  of  soldiers,  its  contents 
to  be  conveyed  to  the  vaults  of  the 
court,  and  Mr.  B6dard  to  be  imprisoned  on 
a  charge  of  treasonable  practices.  And  this 
act  of  tyranny  was  grounded  on  the  fact  that 
these  political  martyrs  had  had  the  courage 
to  demand  for  Canada  the  right  of  voting  the 
supplies  !  The  Canadien  gave  an  account  of 
this  atrocious  imprisonment  in  the  following 
paragraph  •. — 

The  infamous  conduct  of  the  Council  did  not 
end  here.  The  latter,  with  the  view  of  striking 
terror  into  the  great  national  partj,  caused  Messrs. 
Laforce,  Papixeau  (of  Chaiubly),  Curbeil,  Tas- 
CHEUEAC  and  Blaschet  to.be  imprisoned. 

Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  at  this  period  a  repre- 
sentative of  the  people  was  cast  into  prison 
for  having  asked  for  the  granting  of  a  right 
which  was  unjustly  withheld,  and  to  erown 
the  act  of  tyranny,  he  was  left  to  rot  in  his 
cell  for  fourteen  months,  and  was  refused  a 
trial  before  the  courts  in  which  he  could 
have  easily  justified  himself,  and  proved  that 
he  had  acted  in  a  constitutional  manner.  I 
cannot  pass  over  this  page  of  our  parliament- 
ary history  without  quoting  it : — 

The  leaders,  however,  who  had  been  baselj  im- 
prisoned, did  not   stoop  before  the  storm.     Mr. 
Beoard,  from  the  depths  of  his  cell,  braved  the 
fury  of  the  enemies  of  his  country  ;  his  gieat  soul 
remained  calm  and  undisturbed,  and  he  did  not 
give   way  to  despair.     Proud   of  his  rights  and 
confident  of  the  justice  of  hi.s  cause,  he  in  vain 
demaude.d  from  his  peisecutors  a  justilication  of 
their  conduct      The  ears  of  his  jailers  were  deaf 
to  his  demand,  and  refusing  the  liberty  which  they 
wished  to  grant  him,  he   even  insisted  on   being 
brought  to  trial.     The  new  elections  caused  no 
change  in  the  national  representation.    The  Gov- 
ernor, in  his  speech,  made  no  allusion  to  the  se- 
vere measures  which  he  had  taken  with  respect 
to  Mr.  BfioARD  and  his  companions,  and  the  ses- 
sion passed  over  without  the  noble  prisoner  hav- 
ing been  liberated.     It  was  uot  until  after  a  cap- 
tivity of  thirteen  months,  and  after  havi  ig  con- 
tracted a  mortal  disease,  that  this  great  man  left 
the  prison  to  go  and  rejoin  a  beloved  liimily,  who 
were  deprived  of  their  all  and  who  were  indebted 
for  their  meaiis  of  e.xisieuce  to   the   honorable 
generosity  of  the  citizens  of  Quebec. 

Notwithstanding  these  crying  injustices,  Mr. 
BfiDARD  did  not  complain  ;  he  considered 
that  it  was  not  too  high  a  price  to  pay  for  the 
liberties  of  the  people,  and  that  a  few  mouths' 
imprisonment  was  a  more  nothing  in  view  of 


611 


the  great  liberties  for  which  he  struggled  and 
suffered.  Listen  to  the  noble  utterances  of 
that  great  patriot,  in  presence  of  his  electors, 
after  regaining  his  liberty  : — 

The  pa-t  must  not  discourage  us,  or  diminish 
our  veneration  for  our  Constitution.  Any  other 
form  of  jrovernmcnt  M-ould  be  subject  to  the  same 
drawback,  and  in  fact  to  drawbacks  far  greater  ; 
the  peculiarity  of  our  present  system  is,  that  it 
furnishes  the  means  of  remedying  its  own  defects. 
[And  he  added]:  We  must,  moreover,  be  prepared 
to  mike  some  sacrifices  for  the  securing  of  these 
great  advantages." 

Such  was  the!  language  of  that  great  patriot  ; 
not  a  word  of  bitterness,  complaint,  or  re- 
crimination, but  dignity  of  expression  and  a 
sincere  conviction  of  the  advantages  of  the 
CoDstitution.  What  a  contrast,  alas!  between 
those  days  of  devotedness  and  civic  courage, 
and  the  egotism  and  frigid  indiflFerence  of  our 
own,  in  which  self-interest  overrides  every- 
thing, and  patriotism  has  ceased  to  exist.  The 
page  of  our  history  I  have  just  read,  is 
one  wl.ich  certainly  should  not  remain  un- 
noticed ;  it  is  a  page  which  our  legislators 
would  do  well  to  consult.  They  would  there 
find  an  example  of  patriotism  well  deserving 
of  imitation,  It  is  well  to  contemplate  and 
study  the  great  struggles  of  our  forefathers, 
to  see  how  victory  crowned  the  efforts  of  those 
noble  patriots — a  victory  dearly  purchased, 
and  of  which  we  have  up  to  our  own  day 
preserved  the  precious  fruits.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  the  war  of  1812  broke  out,  and  England 
— who  has  never  granted  us  any  liberties  or 
privileges  except  when  she  needed  us  for  her 
own  defence  on  this  continent — changed  her 
tactics.  She  trembled  for  her  supremacy  in 
these  British  provinces,  and  immediately  she 
deemed  it  prudent  to  secure  our  good-will,  and 
cooperation  in  the  struggle  then  about  to 
commence — in  the  first  place,  by  calling  Mr, 
Bedard  to  a  seat  on  the  judicial  bench.  She 
understood  clearly  that  she  could  do  nothing 
against  the  United  States  without  the  assist- 
ance of  the  French-Canadian  element.  And 
the  Imperial  Government  also  hoped  to  recover 
the  control  of  the  influence  and  the  services  of 
the  race  it  had  treated  so  tyrannically. 
Thus  it  was  that  the  man  who  had  been  cast 
into  prison,  and  whom  the  Government  had 
accused  of  treason,  became  the  judge  of  the 
highest  court  in  the  country.  The  adoption 
of  every  base  means  of  gaining  adherents  con- 
stituted the  tactics  of  the  Government  at  that 
period.  They  hoped  that  by  thus  giving  a 
place  to  the  man  who  had  been  the  most 
valiant  defender   of  our  right*   and   of  our 


nationality,  they  would  secure  the  adherence 
of  the  children  of  the  soil,  and  they  were  not 
mistaken.  In  adopting  that  means,  Mr, 
Speaker,  the  Tmpcrisil  Government  showed 
thut  they  understood  the  character  of  the 
nation  they  thus  sought  to  gain  over  to  their 
cause.  For  it  must  be  admitted — and  it  is 
perhaps  our  misfortutic — that  it  is  the  peculiar 
characteristic  of  the  Fi  ench  element,  that  they 
very  often  too  soon  forget  the  persecutions  of 
which  they  have  been  the  victims,  and  which 
ought  to  inspire  them  with  an  honest  indigna- 
tion when  they  reflect  on  the  past.  Over-con- 
fident of  the  sincere  goodwill  of  our  adver- 
saries, we  are  always  taken  unawares  at  each 
new  attempt  at  aggression.  And  even  now, 
a  few  years  of  prosperity  has  been  enough  to 
dazzle  us  and  make  us  anticipate  a  brilliant 
prospect  in  a  measure  which  involves  nothing 
short  of  the  annihilation  of  our  influence  as  a 
race,  which  is  in  fact  decreed  in  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  now  sought  to  be  forced  upon 
the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  the  American 
army  threatened  the  frontier,  and  it  was 
necessary  to  think  of  defence.  With  a  view 
of  being  prepared  for  an  attack,  the  Governor 
assembled  Parliament  twice  in  1812,  and 
measures  were  taken  for  arming  the  militia  and 
voting  the  sums  required  for  the  organization 
and  defence  of  the  province.  Sir  George 
Prevost,  at  the  opening  of  Parliament  in 
1813,  complimented  the  people  for  their 
courage  and  energy,  and  the  proceedings  were 
less  stormy  than  usual ;  fresh  supplies  were 
voted  for  the  war,  and  a  good  under- 
standing subsisted  between  the  Government 
and  the  two  Houses  during  the  session. 
At  that  heroic  period  of  our  history,  we 
find  our  French-Canadian  fellow-country- 
men, to  whom  fresh  concessions  had  been 
made,  obedient  to  the  voice  of  their  chiefs, 
rushing  to  the  frontier  and  driving  back  the 
invader.  But  in  1812,  as  in  1775,  the  de- 
votedness and  patriotism  of  our  people  were 
destined  soon  to  be  forgotten.  The  moment 
of  danger  had  scarcely  passed  away  when 
those  who  had  saved  the  power  of  England  in 
America,  at  the  price  of  their  blood,  were 
once  more  made  the  object  of  incessant  at- 
tacks on  the  part  of  the  English  oligarchy,  as 
I  shall  shortly  shew,  Garneau  gives  the 
following  graphic  sketch  of  the  conduct  of  his 
countrymen  at  that  critical  period  of  our 
history :  — 

A  second  time  was  Canada  preserved  for  Eng- 
land by  the  very  people  whom  it  was  sought  to 
annihiiat«  ;  by  their  bravery  the  colony  was  pre- 


612 


served  from  the  inevitable  viroes  of  a  frightful 
war.  For  a  moment  the  hatred  entertained  to- 
wards the  Canadian  name  was  stifled  ;  the  Colonial 
Office,  sensible  of  the  difficulties  of  the  moment, 
silenced  the  fanatical  yells  of  its  transatlantic 
minions ;  but  once  the  danger  over  and  Canada 
safe,  the  old  antipathies  were  soon  again  to  burst 
forth,  the  war  upon  our  language,  our  institutions 
and  our  laws  to  recommenoe,  and  ingratitude  to 
take  the  place  of  gratitude  in  the  hearts  of  the 
children  of  Albion. 

Forbearance,  it  was  evident,  had  been  thus 
used  solely  because  circumstances  rendered  it 
impossible  to  give  grounds  of  discontent  to  so 
important  a  portion  of  the  population,  by 
whom  alone  the  country  could  be  saved. 
England  has  never  been  liberal  except  in 
presence  of  danger.  At  this  moment  she  is 
endeavoring  to  attain  the  same  end  by  at- 
tempting to  destroy  our  nationality  by  means 
of  the  Federation  scheme  submitted  to  us. 
But  she  finds  at  her  back  now  an  element  of 
strength  which  she  did  not  then  possess,  to 
aid  her  in  the  task — the  support  of  a  French- 
Canadian  majority.  (Hear,  I'ear.)  In  the 
following  year  occurred  the  glorious  battle  of 
Chateauguay.  On  that  memorable  day  a 
handful  of  brave  men,  commanded  by  DeSa- 
LAKERRY,  confronted  an  enemy  thirty  times 
superior  in  number  to  themselves,  arrested  the 
advance  of  the  invader,  and  by  their  devoted- 
ness  and  bravery  saved  this  rich  province  for 
the  Crown  of  England.  Now,  Mr.  Speaker, 
what  the  French-Canadians  did  in  the  war  of 
1812,  that  they  are  once  more  prepared  to  do 
under  the  Constitution  as  it  is  at  this  moment. 
It  was  because  they  felt  at  that  time  that  they 
had  something  more  precious  to  defend  thau 
a  Confederation  which  can  afford  no  better 
protection  to  their  material  interests  than  to 
their  institutions,  their  language,  their  laws, 
and  their  nationality,  that  they  took  no  ac- 
count of  the  numbers  of  the  enemy,  but  fought 
valiantly  when  they  were  outnumbered  in  the 
proportion  of  ten  to  one.  And  now  again, 
in  defending  the  Constitution  as  it  is,  with  the 
rights  and  privileges  it  guarantees  to  us,  the 
Canadians  will  not  hesitate  a  moment  to  sacri- 
fice themselves  for  the  safety  of  the  precious 
deposit  entrusted  to  their  keeping.  Surely, 
Mr.  Speaker,  it  is  not  necessary  to  go  iar 
back  into  our  history  for  an  instance  of  this. 
In  1862,  at  the  time  of  the  afffiirof  the  Trsnt, 
when  a  rupture  with  our  neighbors  seemed 
imminent,  the  French-Canadians  rushed  to 
arms  with  the  eagerness  and  irresistible  im- 
pulse of  the  heroes  of  New  France.  It  is  not, 
Mr,   Speaker,    that    the    French-Canadian 


desires  war,  but  he  loves  to  nerve  his  arm  by 
calling  to  mind  the  battle-fields  of  former 
days  ;  and  if  the  present  generation  were  called 
upon  to  meet  the  enemy,  they  would  show  the 
whole  world  that  their  blood  has  not  degener- 
ated, and  that  they  are  worthy  in  every  respect 
of  their  heroic  ancestors.  (Hear,  hear.) 
After  the  war  of  1812,  which  had  so  greatly 
imperilled  the  possessions  of  England  on  this 
continent,  the  same  attempts  at  aggression 
wero  renewed  without  delay ;  so  true  is  it 
that  danger  alone  could  interrupt  them.  The 
troops  having  gone  into  winter  quarters,  the 
Governor,  Sir  G.  Prevost,  went  down  to 
Quebec  to  open  Parliament,  and  the  dis- 
agreements between  the  popular  branch  and 
the  Legislative  Council  soon  broke  forth 
again  little  by  little.  Stuart  again  brought 
up  the  question  of  the  rules  of  practice,  and 
made  the  most  serious  accusations  against 
Judge  Sewell — charging  him,  for  instance, 
with  having  attempted  to  enforce  his  rules  of 
practice  without  the  authority  of  Parliament ; 
with  having  dismissed  the  Solicitor  General 
from  his  place  in  order  to  instal  therein  his 
own  brother,  E.  Sewell;  with  having  vio- 
lated the  liberty  of  the  press,  by  causing  the 
Canadien  to  be  seized  without  any  plausible 
grounds;  and  the  liberty  of  Parliament,  by 
imprisoning  several  of  its  members.  These 
accusations,  some  of  which  were  true,  were 
transmitted  to  England,  but  Stuart  having 
been  unable  to  cross  the  sea  in  order  to  follow 
them  up,  Sewell  got  rid  of  the  charges. 
The  same  occurred  as  regards  Judge  Monk, 
who  was  accused  at  the  same  time  of  sundry 
malversations ;  and,  as  Mr.  F.  X.  Garneau 
remarks,  Judge  Sewell  determined  that  the 
best  revenge  he  could  take  for  the  accusations 
brought  against  him  was  to  suggest  to  the 
Prince  Regent  the  union  of  all  the  British 
provinces,  with  a  view  to  compass  the  destruc- 
tion of  French-Canadian  nationality.  Such, 
Mr.  Speaker,  wero  the  circumstances  under 
which  tlie  scheme  of  Confederation  was  first  pro- 
posed. And  it  must  be  admitted  that,  bearing 
in  mind  the  recommendation  of  Mr.  Skwell, 
it  ought  to  excite  many  fears  on  the  part  of 
every  true  French-Canadian.  Who  was  the 
first  man  to  pronounce  the  word  "  Confeder- 
ation" ?  A  man  who  violated  the  liberty  of 
the  press  and  the  liberty  of  l^arliamont !  A 
man  who  had  lor  years  longed  fo!"  the  destruc- 
tion of  the  French-Canadian  race !  At  a 
subsequent  period,  after  the  revolution  of 
1837,  Lord  Durham  proposed  Confederation 
as  the  political  organization  best  adapted  for 
our  annihilation.     And  at  this  moment  our 


613 


fellow-countrymen  in  office  submit,  nay,  pro- 
pose, to  the  people  this  scheme  of  annihilation, 
specially  prepared  for  our  destruction,  and 
which  must  destroy  us,  Mr.  Speaker,  if  the 
people  outside  this  House  do  not  protest  in 
every  constitutional  way  against  the  political 
suicide  of  the  French  race  in  Canada.  At 
the  prorogation  of  Parliament  in  1814,  the 
Speaker,  L.  J.  Papinbau,  addressed  the 
Governor,  Sir  George  Prevost,  in  the  fol- 
lowing words : — 

The  events  of  the  late  war  have  drawn  closer 
the  bonds  of  conQection  between  Great  Britain 
and  Canada.  These  provinces  have  been  pre- 
served for  England  under  circumstances  of  great 
diflBcultj. 

These  words  are,  in  many  respects,  deserving 
of  serious  consideration  ;  and  I  call  the  atten- 
tion of  honorable  members  of  this  House  to 
this  remarkable  passage : — 

When  the  war  broke  out — continued  Mr.  Pa- 
PINBAU — this  country  had  neither  troops  nor  mon- 
ey, and  Your  Excellency  commanded  a  people  in 
whom,  it  was  said,  the  habits  acquired  during 
more  than  half  a  century  of  peace  had  destroyed 
all  military  spirit.  Despite  these  predictions,  you 
succeeded  in  deriving  frcm  the  devotedness  of  a 
brave  and  faithful,  though  calumniated  people, 
sufficient  resources  to  defeat  the  plans  of  con- 
quest of  an  enemy  great  in  numbers  and  full  of 
confidence  in  his-  own  strength.  The  blood  of 
the  children  of  Canada  was  shed,  mingled  with 
that  of  the  brave  men  sent  here  to  assist  in  our 
defence.  The  repeated  proofs  of  the  powerful 
protection  of  England  and  of  the  inviolable  fidel- 
ity of  her  colonies,  constitute  for  the  latter  fresh 
titles,  in  virtue  of  which  they  claim  to  enjoy  the 
free  exercise  of  all  the  rights  and  advantages 
guaranteed  to  them  by  the  Constitution  and  the 
laws. 

The  Speaker  of  the  Legislative  Assembly, 
then  twenty-six  years  of  age,  who  struggled 
so  heroically  to  secure  our  political  rights 
and  liberties,  is  the  same  whose  name,  durini^- 
a  recent  sitting  of  this  House,  was  ignomin- 
iously  dragged  forward  by  the  hon.  member 
for  Montmorency  and  the  Honorable  Attor- 
ney General  East  (Hon.  Mr.  Cartier).  His 
name,  venerated  by  the  entire  country  as  that 
of  its  liberator,  has  been  cast  as  an  insult  in 
the  teeth  of  honorable  members  of  this  House, 
who  deem  it  an  honor  to  own  his  leadership, 
and  who  still  continue  to  carry  on  his  work — 
the  protection  of  our  political  rights  against 
the  underhand  plots  of  a  hostile  majority. 
But,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  venerable  old  man, 
who  has  grown  grey  in  the  service  of  his  coun- 
try, is  sheltered  from  base  insinuations,  which 
can  as  little  penetrate  hia  peaceful  retirement 


as  they  can  the  hearts  of  the  sincere  friends 
of  our  country.  In  that  quiet  retreat  the 
great  patriot  of  our  evil  days,  after  having 
nobly  fulfilled  his  task,  enjoys  in  peace  and 
with  pride  the  esteem  of  those  he  successfully 
defended  with  his  powerful  voice  in  the  dark- 
est hour  of  our  political  history.  Gross  in- 
sults, shameless  calumnies,  when  uttered 
against  such  a  man,  redound  with  double 
weight  upon  those  who  thus  basely  vilify  a 
citizen  justly  admitted  to  be  an  honor  to 
our  country.  The  name  of  the  Hon.  L.  J. 
Papineau  is  surrounded  with  a  luminous 
halo  which  malignant  calumny  can  never  suc- 
ceed in  tarnishing.  His  memory  is  safe  from 
these  envious  assaults,  for  it  is  under  the 
protection  of  the  people  whom  he  rescued 
from  the  systematic  colonial  oppression  which 
I  am  attempting  to  describe.  Really,  Mr. 
Speaker,  the  cause  of  the  Honorable  Attor- 
ney General  East  must  be  in  very  great  straits 
when  he  is  compelled  to  resort  to  such  means 
in  order  to  save  it.  The  Honorable  Attorney 
General  East  must  have  very  little  confidence 
in  the  success  ot  that  cause,  when  he  endeavors 
to  excite  the  prejudices  of  his  supporters  by 
heaping  insults  on  one  of  the  greatest  names 
in  our  history.  Such  language  on  the  part 
of  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  East  is 
the  more  culpable  in  that  he  himself  was  one 
of  the  rebels  of  1837-'8,  and  one  of  the 
most  zealous  partisans  of  that  great  pat- 
riot whom  he  now  insults.  Did  he  not 
himself  vote  in  favor  of  the  ninety-two  reso- 
lutions— that  imperishable  monument  of  Can- 
adian rights  ?  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  man 
upon  whose  head  a  price  was  set,  the  man 
who  was  compelled  to  fly  from  his  country 
and  to  seek  from  a  neighboring  country  that 
right  of  asylum,  which  he  refuses  to-day  to 
the  S(iuthern  refugee,  has  the  audacity,  now 
that  he  is  Attorney  General,  to  call  that  great 
statesman  "Old  Mr.  Papineau,"  and  the  op- 
position in  this  House,  "  Old  Mr.  Papineau's 
tail."  I  do  not  hesitate  to  assert,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, that  such  expressions  are  unworthy  of  this 
House,  and  unworthy  of  the  position  occupied 
by  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  Bast,  who 
has  had  the  questionable  courage  to  pronounce 
them.  (Hear,  hear.)  Such  expressions,  if 
they  are  to  be  tolerated  anywhere,  find  their 
proper  place  in  the  common  streets,  and 
the  standard  of  this  House  must  have  fal- 
len very  low,  when  such  language  is  per- 
mitted here.  All  sense  of  dignity  must  be 
lost,  when  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  is  per- 
mitted to  insult,  on  the  floor  of  this  House,  the 
name  of  a  man  whom    every    true   French 


614 


Canadian  holds  in  veneration.     Let  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  not  deceive  himself — opinions 
and  ideas  tending  to  promote  the  happiness  of 
the  people,  and  the  men   who   sustain   and 
struggle  for  their  interests,  will  ever  be  vic- 
torious over  the  assault  of  calumny  and  envy. 
And  what  has  been  the  aim  of  the  Hon.  At- 
torney General  and  the  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency,  in  their  attack  upon  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Papineau  ?     Their  object,  in  the  first 
place,  was  to  injure  the  Opposition,  who  re- 
present him;  and  next,  to  elevate  themselves, 
by  dragging  down  to  their  own  level  one  ot 
the  great  men  of  our  history,  beside  whom 
they  are   but   pigmies.      For  there  are  two 
ways  of  being  great :  the  first  is  by  rendering 
to  one's  country  eminent  services,  and  by  ex- 
hibiting undeniable  superiority ;  but  inasmuch 
as  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  and  the  honor- 
able member  for  Montmorency  possess  neither 
the  material  nor  the  superiority  that  go  to 
make  great  men,  they  adopt  the  second  mode 
of  .attaining  greatness.     It  consists  in   depre- 
ciating and  crushing  all  those  who  are  supe- 
rior to  one's  self.      Thus  they  hope  to  rise 
over  the  ruined  reputation  of  those  they  en- 
viously  calumniate  and   unceasingly   attack. 
They  recklessly  carry  on  their  work  of  demoli- 
tion ;    they    are  not  arrested  in  their  course 
even  by  the  names   that   personify  a  whole 
epoch  in  our  history,  and  when  one  of  the 
great  figures  of  the  past  confronts  them  in  all 
its  dignity,  like  a  statue  of  glory,  their  sacri- 
legious hands  are  eagerly  raised  to  mutilate  it; 
then,  standing  alone  upon  its  scattered  frag- 
ments, they  contemplate  with  pride  the  pros- 
trate victim  of  their  vandal  labors  !     Such, 
Mr.  Speaker,  are  the  motives  which  explain 
the  eflbrts  made  by  those  who  thus  attempt 
to  injure  one  of  the  greatest  men  of  our  race, 
(Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)     But  we  harre  not 
yet  reached  the  termination  of  our  struggles. 
At  the  opening  of  Parliament  in  1816,  a  mes- 
sage was  communicated  to  the  House  stating 
that    the     charges   brought   against   Judges 
Sewell  and  Monk  had  been  dismissed.    The 
bitter  words  in  which  the  message  was  couched 
greatly  incensed  the    House,   and    a    proper 
answer  was  just  about  to  be  adopted,  when  a 
di.ssolution  was  resorted  to  in  order  to    pre- 
vent a  manifestation   of  the   feelings  of  the 
House.      And  what   was  the  position  taken 
by  the  Imperial   Government  with   reference 
to   those  difficulties?      We  find  it  stated  in 
the  letter  written  by  Lord  Bathurst  to  Gov- 
ernor SiiERBROOKE,  who  pointed  out  to  them 
the  false  step  taken  by  the  Colonial  Office  in 
thus  oppresBing  our  race  ;•— 


Hitherto  the  Government  has  found,  on  all  or- 
dinary occasions,  an  abiding  resource  in  the  firm- 
ness and  disposiiion  of  the  Legislative^  Council, 
and  there  is  no  reason  to  doubt  that  the  Council 
will  continue  to  counteract  thR  most  injudicious 
and  violent  measures  of  the  Legislative  AHsemblj. 

In  truth,  the  measures  of  the  Legislative 
Assembly  of  that  day  were  very  injudicious, 
very  violent !  They  demanded  that  the  peo- 
ple should  have  a  voice  in  the  disposal  of  the 
moneys  contributed  by  themselves !  And 
hence  it  was  that  the  Legislative  Council 
counteracted  all  the  measures  demanded  by 
the  people.     I  continue  the  quotation : — 

It  is  therefore  in  every  way  desirable  that  you 
should  avail  yourself  of  its  assistance  to  counteract 
any  measures  of  the  Assembly  you  may  deem  objec- 
tionable, instead  of  placing  your  own  authority  or 
that  of  the  Government  in  direct  opposition  to  that 
of  the  House,  and  thus  affording  thenf  a  pretext  for 
refusing  the  supplies  necessary  for  the  service  of 
the  colony. 

Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  nominative  Legisla- 
tive Council  was  always  the  stumbling-block 
in  the  way  of  the  French-Canadians  when- 
ever they  endeavored  to  carry  any  measure  of 
reform.  The  elective  House  invariably  met, 
on  the  part  of  that  body,  a  syttematic  oppo- 
sition to  every  measure  desired  by  the  people — 
an  opposition  it  was  impossible  to  overcome. 
It  was  in  1856  that  we  succeeded,  after  a 
constant  struggle  of  fifty  years,  in  introduc- 
ing the  elective  principle  into  the  Upper 
House.  At  this  moment,  despite  the  lessons 
of  the  past,  recorded  unfortunately  in  letters  of 
blood,  an  attempt  is  made  to  return  to  the 
old  system ;  we  are  about  basely  to  abandon 
a  privilege,  a  political  right,  which  was  the 
reward  of  so  many  struggles  and  so  many 
woes.  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  such  is  the  scheme 
of  the  present  Government;  they  intend  that 
in  the  Confederation  the  members  of  the  Le- 
gislative Council  shall  be  appointed  by  the 
Crown,  as  in  the  darkest  period  of  our  his- 
tory. Happily,  the  people  thoroughly  under- 
stand the  value  and  bearing  of  life  nomina- 
tions. They  know  that  the  great  majority  of 
the  men  so  appointed  by  a  General  Govern- 
ment, numerically  hostile  to  our  race,  would 
ever  be  ready  to  reject  measures  the  most 
favorable  to  our  interests  as  a  nation.  The 
Legislative  Council  under  Confederation  will 
bo  what  it  was  in  the  days  of  oppression, 
when  Lord  Bathurst,  in  pursuance  of  the 
instructions  of  the  Imperial  Government, 
said  to  Governor  Sherbrooke — "  B-^  care 
ful  to  make  use  of  the  Legislative  Council 
to  counteract   the   measures  of  the  elective 


615 


body."      That  is  just  it — they  shield  them- 
selves   behind    a    Legislative    Council    com- 
posed of  their   own   creatures  brought  back 
to    life,    and    then    while    lauding    to    the 
skies    the     colonial    liberality    of    England, 
they  pull  the  strings  and  make  their  puppets 
play  the  part  of  oppressors.     It   is   precisely 
the  same  political  oi"ganization  that  is   pro- 
posed in  the  scheme  of  Confederation.     In  a 
Legislative  Council  composed  of  life-members, 
we  shall  have  men  prepared  invariably  to  re- 
fuse the  people  the  measures  they  require,  if 
such  measures  in  any  way  affect   the  privi- 
leges  of  the    aristocratic   chisscs.     However 
eager  may  be  the  efforts  of  tlie   members  of 
the  elective  body,  it  will  be  constitutionally 
impossible  for  us  to  obtain  such  measures. 
Moreover,    these    councillors,    of  whom   the 
majority  will  be  hostile  to   us,  will  do  every- 
thing in  their  power  to  gratify  the  Imperial 
Government,  by   whom   they  are  to  be    ap- 
pointed— a  Government  which  has  ever  liber- 
ally   subsidised    its   creatures.      Sucb,    Mr. 
Speaker,  are  the  dangers  in  our  path  if  we 
return  to  the  old  system  of  life-appointments 
proposed  by  the   Government  in   the   Con- 
federation scheme.     (Hear,  hear.)     But  the 
first  instructions  given  by  Lord  Bathurst  to 
Governor  Sherbrooke  were  not  sufficiently 
explicit,  apparently  ;  for  shortly  afterwards  he 
transmitted  the  following — "  I  strongly  recom- 
mend you  to  see  that  the  Legislative  Assembly 
does  not  dispose  of  public  moneys  without  the 
consent  of  the   Legislative    Council," — thus 
unscrupulously  violating  the  very  essence  of 
the  Constitution,  evidently  under  the  impulse 
of  rabid  national  feelings.     It  is  a  principle 
of  the    Constitution   of    Endand    that    the 
popular  House,  which  represents  the  opinions 
of  the  people,  has  alone  the  right  of  voting 
supplies  for  the  administration  of  the  govern- 
ment,   and  that  moneys  levied  for  that  pur- 
pose from  the  people    can  be  expended  only 
with    the   consent   of  that   House    and   not 
otherwise.     Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  what  do  we 
find  in  this  instance  ?     We  find  the  Imperial 
Government   expressly  instructing  Her  Ma- 
jesty's representative  in  Canada  not  to  allow 
the  supplies  to  be  voted  without  the  consent  of 
the    Legislative    Council,  appointed    for  life 
by    the    Crown,  and  whose  constant  efforts 
were  directed  to  resisting  the  just   demands 
or  the    French-Canadians.       This    question 
of  the   supplies,    the     chief     cause     of    all 
the    difficulties     by     which   we    have    been 
beset,  both  previous  to  and  since  that  period, 
was    not    to     be    thus    disposed    of.      We 
then  had  men  who  were  not  to  be  baffled  by 


difficulties  or  rebuffs.    And  thus  it  is  that  we 
find  those  noble  champions  of  our  rights  and 
liberties  coming  forward,  year  after  year,  with 
the  same  demands ;  never  disheartened  by  de- 
feat,  and  struggling  on  until   at   last   their 
legitimate  claims  were  acceded  to.     In  Janu- 
ary, 1819,  the  Houses  were  opened,  and  the 
first  question  which  brought  on  an  animated 
debate  was,  once   more,  the  question  of  the 
finances.      A  discussion  arose  as  to  whether 
the  Lower  House,  after  having  obtained  the 
annual  vote  of  supply,  could  moreover  obtain 
a  detailed  civil   list  and  vote  on  each  item 
separately.        The   majority   desired  this   in 
order  to  assure  themselves  of  the  integrity  of 
the  public  officials,  and   to  hold  in  check  the 
members  of  the  Executive  Council,  over  whom 
they   had   no   control.       Others   opposed    it 
strongly,  as  a  new  principle  and  violating  the 
rights  of  the  Crown.    A  committee,  appointed 
to  examine  into   the    question,  reported  in 
favor  of  a  reduction  of   the    expenditure — 
which  they  declared  to  be  far  too  great  in  pro- 
portion to  the  revenue — and  the  abolition  of 
pensions,    which    tended    to    grave    abuses. 
Adopting   a   middle  course  between  the  two 
extremes,  some  wished  to  vote  the  supplies 
under  certain  heads,  giving  a  gross  sum  for 
each  department.      But  the  supporters  of  a 
detailed  vote  carried  the  day.      The  bill  was 
passed,  sent  up  to  the  Council,  and,  as  was 
anticipated,  rejected  by  that  body  in  the  fol- 
lowing terms : — 

That  the  mode  adopted  for  the  granting  of  the 
civil  list  was  unconsiitutional,  unprecedented,  and 
involved  a  direct  violatiou  of  the  rights  and  pre- 
rogatives of  the  Crown  ;  that  if  the  bill  became 
law,  it  would  not  only  give  the  Commons  the 
privilege  of  voting  supplies,  but  also  of  prescrib- 
ing to  the  Crown  the  number  and  character  of 
its  ser)jp,nts,  by  regulating  and  rewarding  their  ser- 
vices as  they  thought  proper,  which  would  render 
them  independent  of  their  electors,  and  might 
lead  to  their  rejecting  the  authority  of  the  Crown, 
which  their  oath  of  allegiance  bound  them  to 
sustain. 

Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  Council  nominated 
for  life  rejected  that  eminently  just  measure 
— the  voting,  item  by  item,  of  the  supplies 
by  the  Lower  House ;  that  is  to  say,  the  dis- 
tribution of  the  moneys  levied  from  the  peo- 
ple— and  even  went  the  length  of  declaring 
the  measure  unconstitutional.  Is  it  possible 
at  this  time  to  understand  how  servility  could 
be  carried  to  such  an  excess  ?  At  that  period 
the  population  of  Upper  Canada  had  in- 
creased to  a  proportionately  considerable 
extent,  and  the  British  population  of  Lower 


616 


Canada  was  sufficiently  numerous  to  suggest 
the  scheme  of  uniting  the  two  Canadas  under 
one  government,  and  in  1823  the  proposal 
was  made  in  England.  It  was,  therefore,  at 
that  period  of  trouble  and  agitation,  and  rivalry 
between  the  Houses,  that  a  plot  was  entered 
into  in  England  to  annihilate  at  one  blow 
French-Canadian  nationality.  The  war  only 
postponed  the  scheme  for  the  union  of  the 
two  provinces ;  for  the  assistance  of  the 
French-Canadian  people  was  needed.  Peace 
having  been  established,  it  was  resolved  to 
carry  out  the  measure,  and  a  bill  for  the  pur- 
pose was  presented  to  the  Imperial  Legisla- 
ture, unknown  to  the  parties  whose  fate  wag 
being  decided,  and  without  their  being  consult- 
ed, for  it  was  known  that  they  wei'e  opposed  to 
that  act  of  oppression.  Yes,  without  consult- 
ing the  people  of  Lower  Canada,  it  was  sought 
to  force  upon  them  a  Constitution  under  which 
they  were  to  have  a  smaller  representation 
than  Upper  Canada  ;  moreover.  Lower  Can- 
ada was  to  be  charged  with  the  debt  of  the 
other  province,  which  was  a  considerable  debt, 
and  the  language  of  Lower  Canada  was  to  be 
banished  from  the  Legislature.  Happily,  the 
scheme  found  opponents  in  the  Imperial  Par- 
liament, and,  despite  all  the  intrigues  and 
efforts  of  our  enemies,  the  bill  was  thrown  out 
At  the  second  reading.  Then,  as  at  the  present 
day,  those  who  aimed  at  our  destruction  were 
loud  in  favor  of  passing  the  bill,  at  any  price, 
before  the  people  had  an  opportunity  of  pro- 
testing. At  the  present  moment,  those  who 
desire  to  force  us  into  Confederation,  in  the 
face  of  the  petitions  against  the  scheme,  tell 
us  that  we  must  accept  the  new  Constitution 
before  the  people  are  made  aware  of  its  mon- 
strous details.  "  I  beg  of  you  to  pass  this 
bill  at  once,"  said  Mr.  WiLMOTT ;  "if  you 
wait  until  next  year  you  will  receive  ^  many 
petitions  protesting  against  the  measure,  that 
it  will  be  very  difficult  to  adopt  it,  however 
useful  it  may  be  to  those  who  oppose  it  through 
ignorance  or  through  prejudice ;  moreover, 
it  is  essential  to  the  removal  of  the  difficulties 
existing  between  the  Executive  and  the  As- 
sembly." When  the  news  of  those  unjust, 
but  happily  abortive,  attempts  reached  Can- 
ada, the  greatest  agitation  was  produced,  and 
the  whole  Canadian  people  felt  indignant  at 
such  proceedings.  Several  meetings  were  held 
at  Montreal  and  Quebec  to  protest  ugainst  the 
bill,  and  petitions  to  the  Euglisli  Government 
were  signed  by  00,000  persons.  At  that 
period,  as  in  tiiis  instance,  the  union  was  to 
be  carried  witliout  consulting  the  people, 
and  the  Imperial  Parliament  submitted  to  the 


Legislature  a  measure  against  which  60,000 
French-Canadians  protested.  Mr.  Speakjir, 
I  have  no  hesitation  in  asserting  it,  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  which  it  is  now 
attempted  to  force  upon  the  people  is  destined 
to  be  rejected,  not  by  60,000  French-Ca- 
nadian signatures  merely,  but  by  100,000. 
Yes,  our  people  are  waking  up,  and  in  this 
united  and  general  protest  we  shall  not  lag 
behind  those  who  showed  us  the  example  of 
an  effective  protest  whenever  it  was  sought  to 
inflict  injustice  upon  them.  We  will  send  to 
England  thousands  of  signatures  to  protest 
against  the  Constitution  we  do  not  desire, 
and  if  justice  is  then  refused,  well  ^^fiat 
justitia  mat  axlum,"  we  shall  have  employed 
every  constitutional  means,  and  the  responsi- 
bility for  the  consequences  of  that  refusal  of 
justice  will  fall  on  the  heads  of  those  who 
labor  to  bring  about  such  a  state  of  things. 
The  Hon.  Denis  Benjamin  Viger,  one  of 
the  boldest  champions  of  our  rights,  said  of 
the  bringing  forward  of  the  scheme  of  union 
in  the  Imperial  Parliament,  without  consult- 
ing the  people : — 

After  fifty  years  of  peace  and  prosperity,  when 
the  generation  that  witnessed  the  conquest  has 
passed  away  ;  when  there  remaius  hardly  a  living 
witness  of  that  event  among  the  present  gener- 
ation ;  when  the  memory  and  the  impression  of  it 
has  died  out  in  the  breast  of  French-Canadians  ; 
when,  in  fine,  there  no  longer  remains  in  the  Pro- 
vince any  but  British  born  subjects,  enjoying  all 
their  rights  in  that  capacity  alone — now  it  is  that 
a  scheme  is  concocted  under  which  we  are  to  be 
treated — I  will  not  say  as  a  conquered  people,  for 
the  pi.blic  laws  of  civilized  nations  no  longer  per- 
mit the  vanquished  to  be  robbed  of  their  institu- 
tions and  laws,  any  more  than  of  their  property — 
but  like  a  barbarous  race  to  whom  the  enlighten- 
ment and  the  arts,  the  principles  and  the  duties 
of  social  lite,  are  unknown. 

And  in  truth,  Mr.  Speaker,  those  words  were 
not  too  strong  to  qualify  justly  the  conduct  of 
the  Imperial  Government  at  that  period. 
Blood  had  to  be  shed  at  St.  Denis  and  St. 
Charles,  and  heads  to  fall  by  the  axe  of  the 
executioner,  before  justice  could  be  obtained. 
It  was  only  then,  when  it  was  found  that  the 
people  did  not  hesitate  to  sacrilice  the  lives  of 
their  noblest  children,  in  order  to  sccui-e  their 
political  rights  and  liberties,  that  we  re- 
ceived responsible  government  as  we  now 
enjoy  it  and  as  we  desire  to  preserve  it.  At 
the  opening  of  the  ensuing  Session  it  was  ex- 
pected that  the  debate  on  the  finances  would 
be  resumed  ;  but  the  Governor  having  separ- 
ated, in  the  estimates,  the  civil  list  from  the 
other    expenses,    the    supplies    were    voted. 


617 


Thus  it  was  that  whenever  the  struggle  for 
rights  was  persevered  in,  the  result  was  suc- 
cess ;  and  why  is  it,  I  ask,  that  our  states- 
men who  have  struggled  since  the  union  to 
preserve  the  Constitution  as  it  is,  with  such 
signal  success,  now  give  way  to  the  demands 
of  Upper  Canada  ?  Let  us,  then,  maintain 
our  present  position,  the  most  fruitful  in  ad- 
vantages to  French-Canadians.  The  question 
of  finance  had  been  for  some  time  looked 
upon  as  disposed  of,  but  on  Dalhousie's  re- 
turn the  question  arose  again  in  a  more 
threatening  form  than  ever,  and  the  supplies 
were  refused  (1827).  The  Governor  on  the 
following  day  prorogued  Parliament,  insulting 
the  dignity  of  the  Commons  and  eulogizing 
the  Legislative  Council.  This  act  of  tyranny 
caused  great  excitement  amongst  the  people. 
The  press  attacked  the  Government,  and  in 
order  to  show  the  exasperation  of  men's 
minds  at  the  time,  I  quote  an  extract  from 
one  of  the  newspapers  of  that  period  : — 

Canadians,  chaius  are  being  forged  to  bind 
you;  it  would  seem  that  we  are  to  be  annihilated 
or  ruled  with  a  rod  of  iron.  Our  liberties  are  in- 
vaded, our  rights  violated,  our  privileges  abol- 
ished, our  complaints  despised,  our  political  ex- 
istence menaced  with  utter  and  complete  ruin. 
The  time  has  now  come  to  put  forth  all  your  re- 
sources and  to  display  all  your  energy,  so  as  to 
convince  the  Mother  Country  and  the  horde  who 
for  half  a  century  have  tyrannized  over  you  in 
your  own  homes,  that  if  you  are  subjects  you 
are  not  slaves. 

The  elections  resulted  favorably  for  the  popu- 
lar party.  At  the  meeting  of  Parliament,  Mr. 
Papineau  was  elected  Speaker,  but  the  Gov- 
ernor refused  to  sanction  the  choice,  and  told 
the  Legislative  Assembly  to  elect  another. 
What  was  the  proper  course  for  the  House  of 
Assembly  to  pursue  in  the  face  of  such  con- 
duct ?  To  give  way  ?  No,  Mr.  Speaker  ; 
there  were  at  that  time  men  in  our  House  of 
Assembly,  men  who  did  not  shrink  from  their 
duty,  nor  from  the  responsibility  of  their  just 
opposition.  On  motion  of  Mr.  Cuvillier, 
it  was  resolved  that  the  election  of  the 
Speaker  must  be  made  freely  and  indepen- 
dently of  the  Governor ;  that  Mr.  Papineau 
had  been  so  elected ;  that  under  the  law,  no 
confirmation  was  needed,  the  latter  being, 
like  the  presentation,  a  simple  matter  of  form 
and  usage.  Mr.  Papineau  having  been  re- 
instated in  the  chair,  the  Governor  refused 
to  approve  the  selection  made,  and  the  same 
evening  Parliament  was  dissolved.  Thus, 
Mr.  Speaker,  Parliament  existed  but  one 
day,  because  the  Speaker  was  a  man  who 
valued  hia  independence  too  highly  to  sub- 
79 


mit  to  the  dictates  of  an  ill-advised  govern- 
ment. In  truth,  if  these  are  the  liberties 
we  owe  to  the  colonial  system,  I  need  not 
stop  to  prove  their  utter  hollowness.  The 
people  understood  the  position  in  which  it 
was  sought  to  place  them,  and  took  steps 
to  repel  these  fresh  attempts  at  aggres- 
sion. The  question  created  increased  agita- 
tion ;  public  meetings  were  held  in  city,  town 
and  country ;  the  speeches  made  betokened 
the  disturbed  state  of  the  public  mind  ;  pro- 
ceedings were  taken  against  the  press,  and  Mr. 
Waller,  editor  of  the  Spectateiir,  of  Mont- 
real, was  arrested  for  the  second  time.  Ad- 
dresses, bearing  over  80,000  signatures,  were 
forwarded  to  England  in  the  hands  of  Messrs. 
Nelson,  Cuvillier  and  D.  B.  Viger.  Mr. 
Gale  took  the  petition  of  the  partisans  of  the 
oligarchy.  A  great  meeting  of  the  inhabitants 
of  the  counties  of  Verch^res,  Chanibly,  Rou- 
ville  and  St.  Hyacinthe  was  held  at  St. 
Charles  ;  the  people  protested  energetically 
against  the  existing  state  of  things,  and  in 
fact  it  was  broadly  declared  that  the  natural 
consequences  must  be  expected  to  follow  upon 
so  flagrant  a  violation  of  the  most  sacred 
rights  of  the  French-Canadians.  Mr.  Speak- 
er, the  Canadian  people,  in  the  person  of 
their  leaders,  at  that  period  traversed  the 
ocean  in  order  to  obtain  justice  from  the  Bri- 
tish Government,  and  laid  at  the  foot  of  the 
Throne  the  protest  of  80,000  of  our  fellow- 
countrymen,  a  people  who,  in  the  trying  days 
of  our  history,  had  not  hesitated  to  sacrifice 
their  lives  to  maintain  British  power  on  this 
continent ;  and  once  more,  in  this  instance, 
when  an  attempt  is  made  to  force  upon  us  a 
Constitution  we  have  never  asked  for  and 
which  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  energetic- 
ally condemn,  the  same  means  of  protesting 
is  open  to  us,  and  the  Government  may  rely 
upon  it  that  we  shall  be  as  firm  in  defence  of 
our  political  rights  and  liberties  as  were  the 
representatives  of  the  people  in  former  days. 
Our  protest  will  be,  if  anything,  still  more 
energetic  against  the  proposed  scheme  of  Con- 
federation which  it  is  sought  to  impose  on  us  : 

The  Houses  met  in  1831,  and  the  Governor,  in 
the  course  of  the  session,  conimunicated  to  Par- 
liament the  reply  from  Sugland  relative  to  the 
question  of  the  supplies.  The  Imperial  Govern- 
ment gave  to  the  represeiatatives  of  the  people  the 
control  of  the  revenue,  with  the  exception  of  the 
casual  and  territorial  items,  consisting  of  the 
Jesuits'  Estates,  the  King's  Posts,  the  droit  du 
quint,  the  lods  et  ventes,  woods  and  forests,  &c., 
for  a  civil  list  of  £19,000  voted  for  the  lifetime 
of  the  king. 

In  1831  power  was  granted  for  voting,  item  by 


618 


item,  a  part  only  of  the  supplies.  The  restric- 
tion wag  not  consented  to  by  those  who  repre- 
sented the  people  in  the  Legislative  Assembly. 
Such  a  state  of  things  could  not  continue  with- 
out leading  to  a  collision  ;  and  the  events  of 
1837  justified  the  apprehension  of  those  who 
had  all  along  warned  the  Government  that  it 
was  impossible  for  the  people  any  longer  to 
endure  so  flagrant  a  violation  of  their  rights, 
and  that  there  was  imminent  danger  of  ex- 
hausting their  patience.  Events  followed 
each  other  rapidly,  and  the  clergy  then,  as 
at  this  time,  were  opposed  to  any  energetic 
demonstrations.  Monseigneur  Lartigue, 
Bishop  of  Montreal,  published  a  pastoral  let- 
ter, in  which  he  said  :  "  Who  will  dare  assert 
that  the  whole  people  of  this  country  desire 
the  destruction  of  the  Government?"  Mr. 
Speaker,  no  one  desired  it ;  but  the  minor- 
ity at  that  period,  like  the  minority  at  pres- 
ent, complained  of  the  injustice  they  suffered, 
and  the  clergy  were  opposed  to  them.  The 
minority  of  that  day  struggled  for  the  politi- 
cal rights  of  the  people  as  they  are  struggling 
now,  and  they  found  arrayed  against  them 
every  powerful  influence  and  all  established 
authorities.  This  contrast  points  to  a  fact 
deserving  of  notice.  To-day  the  Government 
constantly  insult  us  by  crying  out :  "  You 
represent  nothing  in  this  House ;  public 
opinion  is  against  you !  "  Weil,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, I  ask  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  for 
Lower  Canada  whether  he  himself  and  his 
honorable  colleague  the  Prime  Minister,  had 
the  majority  of  the  Lower  Cantida  people 
and  clergy  with  them  when,  in  1837,  they 
protested  energetically  against  the  injustice 
done  to  their  fellow-countrymen?  Mo,  Mr. 
Speaker,  at  that  time  they  formed  part  of 
the  little  phalanx  who  went  so  far  as  to  raise 
the  standard  of  rebellion  on  the  plains  of 
St.  Denis  and  St.  Charles  1  How  times  are 
changed  1  At  tiie  present  moment  the  same 
men,  the  revolutiouists  of  former  days,  strain 
every  nerve  to  deprive  the  people  of  the  right 
of  pronouncing  for  or  against  the  constitu- 
tional changes  sought  to  bo  forced  upon  them 
So  complete  a  forgctfuhicsa  of  their  own  past  is 
extremely  deplorable.  Mr.  Speaker,  for 
weighty  reasons,  I  do  not  desire  to  dwell 
on  the  events  of  1837.  In  1838  there 
remained  to  be  brought  on  the  trials  ot 
those  who  had  boen  implicated  in  tin; 
troubles.  Lord  Durham  found  himself 
placed  in  an  euibarrassing  position,  for  it  is 
always  dithcult  for  a  government  to  carry  on 
political  prosecutions ;  by  such  a  course  it 
frequently  loses  its  strength  and  its  popularity. 


To  escape  from  the  difficulties  of  the  moment, 
the  Governor  resolved  to  adopt  a  great  mea- 
sure. On  the  day  of  the  coronation  of  Queea 
A^ICTORIA  he  proclaimed  a  general  amnesty, 
and  granted  pardon  to  all  the  Canadians,  ex- 
cept twenty-four  of  the  most  earnest  of  the 
revolutionary  party.  It  is  important,  Mr. 
Speaker,  to  know  who  were  the  twenty-four 
daring  revolutionists  against  whom  the  British 
Government  displayed  so  much  severity,  and 
against  whom  the  clergy  had  pronounced  so 
strongly.  These  men  were  Messrs.  Wolfred 
Nelson,  R.  S.  M.  Bouchette,  Bonaven- 
TURE  ViGER,  Simeon  Marchessault,  H. 
A.  Gauvin,  T.  H.  Godin,  Rod.  DesRi- 
viiiRES,  L.  H.  Masson,  Louis  J.  Papineau, 
C.  H.  CoT^,  JuLiEN  Gagnon,  Robert  Nel- 
son, E.  B.  O'Callaghan,  Ed.  Et.  Rodier, 
T.  S.  Brown,  Ludger  Duvernat,  Ed. 
Chartier,  Ptre.,  G.  Et.Cartier,  J.  Ryan, 
Jr.,  Ls.  Perrault,  P.  L.  Demaray,  J.  F. 
Davignon,  and  Ls.  Gauthier.  Thus,  Mr. 
Speaker,  among  those  sanguinary  men  I 
find  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  for 
Lower  Canada  (_Hon.  Mr.  Cartier).  (Hear, 
hear.)  Far  be  from  me  the  thought  of  re- 
proaching him  with  his  conduct  at  ihat  period. 
I  have  always  looked  upon  it  as  that  of  a 
patriot  and  of  a  true  friend  of  his  country. 
Besides,  that  honorable  member  has  declared 
to  us  on  many  occasions  that  he  did  not  regret 
the  struggles  which  he  had  formerly  main- 
tained in  order  to  claim  the  political  liberties 
of  his  country,  and  I  can  perlectly  understand 
that  he  does  not  waver  in  those  sentiments, 
for  it  is  now  an  historical  fact  that  all  those 
who  took  part  in  those  struggles  nobly  staked 
their  lives  for  their  convictions,  and  the  min- 
ority then,  like  the  present  minority,  could 
expect  nothing  but  misinterpretation  of  their 
opposition  to  power.  It  is  not  for  me  to 
decide  how  far  this  iusurrcotiouary  movement 
was  excited  by  the  deplorable  circumstances 
of  the  time,  but  I  am  perfectly  satisfied  that 
those  who  were  at  the  head  of  it  were  impelled 
by  sentiments  of  patriotism,  by  the  generous 
desire  of  obtaining  for  their  fellow-country- 
men the  political  liberties  which  were  refused 
them.  They  have  therefore  laid  their  coun- 
try under  a  great  debt  of  gratitude  for  the 
sacrifices  which  they  made.  Now  sec,  Mr. 
Speaker  ;  the  men  who,  twenty  years  ago, 
constituted  a  revolutionary  minority,  braved 
the  clergy  and  raised  the  standard  of  revolt 
against  Great  Britain,  are  to-day  in  a  ma- 
jority and  supported  by  the  powerful  influence 
of  England  and  of  the  clergy,  whose  entire 
confidence   they   possess.     They   have   their 


619 


little  entries  to  Windsor,  they  fill  the  highest 
and  most  lucrative  offices  in  our  country,  and 
are  even  decorated  with  the  titles  with  which 
Her    Majesty  is  used  to  reward   Her  most 
loyal  subjects.     To-day,  as  ia  1837,  the  min- 
ority do  not  wish  to  have  recourse  to  the 
means  furnished  by  revolutions,  after  having 
exhausted  those  which  the   Constitution  af- 
fords,  but   they  have  an   inward  conviction 
that  in  twenty  years,  when  the  people  have 
succeeded  in  apprecviting  what  that  minority 
is  doing  for  them  to-day,  they  will  feel  for  the 
opposition  to  which  it  is  devoting  itself,  a  sen- 
timent of  gratitude,  the  result  of  which  will 
be,  that  on  it  they  will  confer  their  entire 
confidence,  after  having  refused  it  in  the  day 
of  trial.     Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  as  the  minority 
of  1837  constitutes  the  majority  of  to-day,  so 
will  the  present  minority  constitute  the  major- 
ity at  some  day  which  is  more  or  less  near. 
I  will  not,  Mr.  SPEAKER,  follow  the  victims 
of  that  melancholy  period  of  our  history  to 
the  scaffold.     "With  their  lives  they  paid  the 
price  of  their  devotion  to  the   cause  of  their 
country,  and  if,  to  make  a  people  deserving  of 
the  rights  of  existence,  life's  blood  and  devo- 
tion are  necessary,  we  have  theirs  to  show 
that  French  Canada  freely  and  nobly  sacri- 
ficed her  noblest  descendants  to  the  genius  of 
Liberty.      (Hear,    hear.)      But   before  con- 
cluding this  sketch  of  our  struggles,  from  the 
conquest   to   the   melancholy  occurrences   of 
1837-38,  it  is  important  to  show  that  it  is  to 
our  heroic  resistance  in  the  Parliament  and  to 
force  of  arms  that  we  owe  the  political  liber- 
ties which  are  secured  to  us  by  the  present 
Constitution.     I  am  unwilling  to  leave   this 
review  of  the  colonial  system  of  England  in 
Canada  without  destroying  the  false  impres- 
sion  which   exists,  that  that  colonial  system 
was  sensibly  improved  by  the  liberality  of  the 
views  of  the  statesmen  of  Great  Britain,  that 
the  struggles  through  which  we  passed  were 
owing  to  the  ideas  of  other  days,  and  that 
now  all  the  liberties  which  we  enjoy  extend 
to  all  the  English  colonies,  to  which  the  colo- 
nial system  of  our  day  secures  the  advantages 
and  the  benefits  of  responsible  government. 
I  believe,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  I  shall  be  able 
easily  to  controvert  these  erroneous  arguments, 
and  to  do  so  I  have  onl^  to  consider  the  colo- 
nial system  of  England  at  the  Mauritius.  That 
French  colony,  which  is  not  of  such  old  standing 
as  ours,  and  which  became  a  conquest  of  Eng- 
land, fell  under  the  yoke  of  Great  Britain  in 
1810.     It  <?as  then  the  Isle  of  France  ;  since 
the  conquest  its  name  has  been  changed  to 
the  Island  ot  Mauritius.     It  contains  a  pop- 


ulation which  is  almost  entirely  French,  but 
unfortunately  for  their  political  rights  it  has 
not,  as  we  have,  the  advantage  of  living  in 
the  immediate  vicinity   of  a  great  republic, 
like  the  United  States,  serving,  so  to  say,  as  a 
guarantee  for  the   protection  of  its  liberties. 
The  Isle  of  France,  in  consequence  of  its  iso- 
lated position,   is  precisely  in  circumstances 
which  allow  of  our  forming  an  opinion  of  what 
the  pretended  liberties  of  the  colonial  system 
are  worth  when  there  is  nothing  to  fear  from 
the  weakness  of  the  colonists  or  the  interven- 
tion of  a  neighboring  power  in  favor  of  the 
oppressed.     Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  we  have  a 
splendid  opportunity  of  judging  whether  the 
colonial  system,  applied  under  such  circum- 
stances, possesses  that  liberal  character  which 
is  attributed  to  it.  Well,  I  say  it  with  regret, 
we  see  there,  as  we  saw  in  Canada,  the  same 
aggressive  and  tyrannical  policy  against  which 
we  had  to  strive  for  a  whole  century.     The 
colonial  system  gave  rise  here  to  deep    dissa- 
tisfaction.    I  shall  enumerate   the  grievances 
which  are  complained  of,  grievances  for  which 
there  is  bat  too  great  foundation.     When  the 
Isle  of  France  was  ceded  to  England,  it  was 
stipulated,  as  in  the  case  of  Canada,  that  the 
French  population  should  retain  the  use  ot 
their  language  and  their  religious  institutions, 
together  with  the  laws  under  which  they  had 
up  to  that  time  been  governed — three  liber- 
ties of  great  value  to  the  descendants  of  old 
France.     Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  we  shall  now 
see  whether  England  respected  these    three 
articles  of  the  treaty.     I  hold  in  my  hand  a 
correspondence  of  no  older  date  than  the  6th 
May,  1862.     It  is  written  by  a  French   col- 
onist in  the   Mauritius,  and  contains   an   ac- 
count of  the  colonial  system  under  which  his 
countrymen   are   governed.      Before  reading 
this  correspondence,  I  must  premise  that  the 
population  of  the  island  consists  of  two  hun- 
dred thousand  souls ;  that  population  is  gov- 
erned by  an  Executive  Council  and  a  Legis- 
lative Council  appointed  for  life,  consisting  of 
eighteen  members,  eight  of  whom  are  public 
officers  appointed  and  paid  by  the  Government 
of  the  oolony.    The  other  ten  are  nearly  all  of 
English  origin.     Thus  the  French  element  in 
the  Legislative  Council  of  the  Mauiitius  is  in 
the  proportion  of  about  one  to  five,  although 
the  population  is  nearly  entirely  French : — 

To  the  Editor  of  the  Economiste  Frangais, 

You  promise  to  the  ancient  colonies  of  France 
aid  and  protection  in  jcur  culumus ;  it  is  there- 
fore namr^i,  that  relying  on  that  promise,  I 
should  apply  to  hold  up  to  the  view  of  your 
readers,  and  to  lay  before  an  intelligent  public, 


620 


before  impartial  judges,  the  acts  of  a  government 
which,  since  1810,  has  exercised  the  most  absolute 
despotism  over  us,  concealed  under  the  great 
name  of  liberty.  We  have  indeed  the  liberty  of 
the  press,  but  it  is  not  listened  lo.  Vain  are  all 
cries  ;  the  Government  "  stop  their  ears  and  let 
us  cry."  Then  they  tell  us  that  we  shall  nevei 
have  a  more  wise,  a  more  paternal,  a  more  liberal 
government.  "  What  would  you  have  more  than 
the  liberty  of  thinking  and  writing?"  thev  ask. 
What  we  would  have  is  that  the  liberty  of  the 
press  should  be  of  some  use  to  us  ;  that  the 
Government  should  listen  to  the  mouth-pieces  of 
public  opinion ;  that  they  should  not  waste  our 
funds  in  spite  of  the  protestations  of  the  press;* 
that  they  should  cause  the  laws,  as  they  were 
made,  to  be  observed,  and  by  all  alike;  that 
among  other  laws,  that  of  quarantine  should 
be  faithfully  observed,  and  that  no  exception 
should  be  made  in  favor  of  H.  B.  M.'s  ships 
of  war  and  transports  with  troops  ;  that  more 
attention  should  be  paid  to  the  subject  of  com- 
munication with  the  ships  arriving  from  India  ; 
that  we  should  be  more  effectually  protected  from 
the  epidemics  which  decimate  our  population  ; 
that  the  cholera  should  be  prevented  from  becom- 
ing endemic  in  the  country,  so  that  the  French 
and  Creole  population  of  the  Mauritius  may  be 
preserved  ;  that  enquiry  should  be  made  as  to  the 
causes  which  may  have  brought  the  cholera  upon 
us ;  that  insufficient  laws  may  be  revised  ;  that 
our  reserves  should  be  kept  at  home  instead  of 
being  lent  to  the  Mother  Country  or  to  other 
colonies ;  that  our  treaty  of  capitulation  should 
be  respected ;  that  no  attempt  should  be  made  to 
introduce  here  English  laws,  when  it  is  agreed 
that  by  the  French  codes  only  are  we  to  be 
governed  ;  that  the  use  of  the  French  language, 
of  which  we  have  been  deprived  in  defiance  of 
sworn  faith,  should  be  restored  to  us ;  that  no 
flagrant  injustice  should  be  committed  in  favor  of 
the  English  and  to  the  detriment  of  the  Creoles ; 
that  the  latter  may  be  appointed  to  the  different 
offices,  and  that  these  should  not  be  conferred  on 
incapable  favorites ;  we  would  have  the  Legislative 
Council  and  self-government,  &c.,  &c.  This  is 
what  we  would  have.  You  see  that  we  wish  for 
a  great  many  things.  But  are  they  not  all  just 
and  reasonable  ?  Let  us  now  proceed  to  the 
enumeration  of  some  of  them,  ana,  in  chronologi- 
cal order,  let  us  begin  with  the  French  language. 
The  deed  of  capitulation,  signed  in  1810  by  the 
representatives  of  France  and  England,  contained 
the  following  articles,  which  we,  the  conquered 
people,  imposed  on  our  conquerors: — 

Ist.   Respect  for  our  religion. 

2nd.  The  maintenance  of  our  laws. 

3rd.  The  guarantee  that  we  should  be  allowed 
to  speak  French. 

Well,  of  these  three  principal  articles  (inscribed 

•  This  demand  is  in  fact  perfectly  just,  as  of  f  he 
five  papers  published  in  the  Mauritius,  four  are 
French  ;  but  the  single  English  journal  on  the 
island  was  always  right,  in  opposition  to  the  four 
French  journals. 


in  large  characters  in  our  deed  of  capitulation, 
accepted  and  promised  under  the  faith  of  an  oath, 
signed  and  approved  by  England),  one  has  been 
already  violated,  and  the  work  of  undermining 
another  is  going  on !  Setting  at  naught  all 
scruples,  the  English  Government  first  robbed  us 
of  the  use  of  the  French  language  before  the  high 
courts  of  justice.  We  have  expressed  our  claims, 
but  a  deaf  ear  has  been  turned  to  them.  This 
first  step  taken,  what  bounds  will  be  set  to  this 
great  work  of  destruction  of  all  that  we  hold  from 
France  ?  On  the  application  of  a  few  English,  the 
revisal  of  our  code  is  already  being  cousiderel ; 
and  when  the  whole  population  apply  to  the 
Mother  Country  for  the  revocation  of  an  order 
which  renders  the  transaction  of  business  impos- 
sible, without  the  very  costly  intervention  of  legal 
men  and  translators,  and  which,  moreover,  inflicts 
a  deep  wound  on  the  Creole  heart,  they  are  told 
to  hold  their  tongues  !  When  they  loudly  call  for 
the  revision  of  insufficient  laws  which  facilitate 
the  propagation  of  mephitic  miasmata  they  are 
not  listened  to  !  When  they  demand  an  enquiry 
into  the  circumstances  which  have  caused  the 
introduction  into  their  midst  of  the  cruel  epidemic, 
which  for  more  than  four  months  has  carried 
death  into  their  ranks,  they  are  told  that  they  are 
indulging  in  idle  fancies  !  At  the  same  time,  and 
as  though  to  turn  the  public  mind  from  this  fixed 
idea,  there  is  a  seniblance  of  bringing  up  a  ques- 
tion already  decided  upon  and  voted — that  relat- 
ing to  railways !  Another  grievance.  Whilst 
the  epidemic  is  raging  among  us,  and  whilst  our 
municipality  stands  in  need  of  money  for  the 
relief  of  the  poor  classes,  the  Government  has 
none  to  lend,  because  the  financial  reserves  of  the 
colony  are  lent  to  the  Cape,  to  India,  to  Ceylon, 
and  to  the  Mother  Country  itself. 

Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  Mauritius,  which, 
by  the  terms  of  her  treaty  of  capitulation, 
was  to  have  preserved  to  her  the  use  ot  her 
language,  her  peculiar  institutions  and  her 
laws,  has  soon  found  herself  deprived  of  the 
use  of  her  language  ;  her  laws  have  bceo 
changed,  and  her  institutiona  have  beeu  sub- 
jected to  oppression.  This,  Mr.  Speaker, 
is  the  sort  of  liberty  which  a  French  colony 
may  enjoy  under  the  colonial  sy.stem  of 
England,  wlun  the  colony  is  weak  and  is  not 
situated,  as  Canada  is,  in  the  vicinity  of  a 
powerful  republic  such  as  the  United  States. 
I  think,  Mr  Spkaker,  that  I  have  now 
shewn  what  has  ever  been  the  spirit  ot  an- 
tagonism between  the  two  races  of  English 
and  French  origin,  on  thi.'  two  continents, 
and  what  has  been  the  spirit  of  aggression 
of  the  English  eleiuont  against  our  popula- 
tion, from  the  founding  of  the  colony  up  to 
our  own  time;  wu  havo  seen  colonial  iiinati- 
cipin  attacking  our  institutions,  our  language 
and  our  laws,  and  we  have  seen  that  our 
uuuihilution  us  a  race  has  been  the  evideat 


621 


object   of  those   constant   efforts.     Can  we 
to-day  believe  that  the  case  is  otherwise ; 
and  ought  not  the  unanimity  of  the  English 
element  in  favor  of  Confederation  to  fill  us 
with  terror  ?     Is  not  our  loss  concealed  under 
this    outward    semblance    of    conciliation  ? 
Yes,  let  us  consult  the  history  of  our  country 
before  effecting   so  radical  a  change  ia  our 
Constitution.     Let  us  remember  with  terror 
the  strife  aud  antagonism  which  prevailed  in 
days  gone  by,  and  let  us  endeavor  to  judge 
with   certainty   what  will  be  the  necessary 
consequences  of  a   constitutional  change  of 
such  serious  importance   as  that   which   is 
proposed  to  us.     Let  us  now  consider,  Mr. 
Speaker,  the  disastrous  consequences  of  the 
adoption     of    the    scheme    of     Confedera- 
tion.      The    members    of    the  Government 
have    told    us    that    Confederation    would 
constitute    us    a     military    power     of    the 
first   class,   and    would    enable   us  to  resist 
the   aggressions    of    the  American    Union. 
The  defence  of  our  frontier   is  certainly  a 
question  of  the  highest  importance,  for  no 
one  is  unaware  that  our  relations  with  our 
neighbors  are  in  a  position  of  extreme  ten- 
sion.    They    have    established    a    passport 
system,  the  sole  object  of  which  is  to  hamper 
our  trade.     A  resolution   has  been  adopted 
by    Congress,  almost  unanimously,  for   the 
repeal   of  the    treaty  of  reciprocity  which 
exists  between  the  two  countries.     In  a  few 
months    the   waters    of    our  lakes   will    be 
ploughed  by  vessels  of  war,  the  armaments 
of  which  can  only  be  directed  against  Canada. 
Such,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  the  position  of  the 
United  States  with  respect  to  us,  and  to  meet 
this  danger  the  Government  proposes  toforui 
a   Confederation    which   will,  they  tell   us, 
constitute     a     first     class     power,     able     to 
maintain  on  this  continent  the  supremacy  of 
Great  Britain.     But  will  the  object  proposed 
be  attained  ?     Shall   we   be  stronger  under 
Confederation   than  we   are    now  ?     Cannot 
the  Governor  General  of  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America  laise  troops  through- 
out the  whole  extent  of  the  provinces  placed 
under  his  jurisdiction  ?     Is  not  the  militia 
of  all  those  provinces  under  his  immediate 
command  ?     We   are   told,  Mr.    Speaker, 
that  Confederation  will   give  us  a  more  uni- 
form military  organization  than  that  which 
we  now  possess.     But  there  is   nothing  to 
prevent  the  formation   of  that  organization 
under  the  present   Constitution,  and  I  have 
no  hesitation  in  saying  that  under  that  Con- 
stitution the  several  provinces  will  defend 
themselves  to  better  advantage  than  under 


Confederation.  Is  it  not  precisely  by  creating 
here  a  military  power,  hostile  to  the  adjoining 
powerlul  republic,  that  we  shall  bring  on  war 
and  its  attendant  calamities  ?  The  moment 
the  United  States  perceive  in  this  Confeder- 
ation an  organization,  the  object  of  which  is 
the  establishing  of  the  balance  of  power  in 
America,  they  will  not  wait  until  our  forti- 
fications are  constructed,  or  until  the  Inter- 
colonial railway  is  built,  but  they  will  attack 
us  at  once.  On  anothii-r  band,  v/e  offer 
defiance  to  the  American  republic  by  creating 
here  a  political  organization  which  is  contrary 
to  the  principles  of  tbe  democratic  govern- 
ment which  prevails  there,  and  coi.trary  to 
the  famous  Monroe  doctrine,  whicli,  as  is 
well  known,  is  opposed  to  the  establishment 
of  monarchical  governments  on  this  continent. 
The  plan  of  the  present  Government  is, 
therefore,  to  establish  here  a  political  system 
which  is  essentially  hostile  to  the  United 
States,  as  it  will  be  essentially  monarchical, 
and  instead  of  proving  to  us  a  means  of 
defence,  it  can  entail  nothing  but  vvar  and 
the  disastrous  consequences  attendant  upon 
it.  To  promote  the  security  and  prosperity 
of  our  country,  the  Government,  instead  of 
bleeding  the  people  as  they  propose  to  do,  to 
erect  here  and  there  ruinously  expensive, 
and  after  all  insufficient  fortifications,  ought 
to  apply  the  revenues  of  the  treasury  to  the 
establishment  of  new  iudu'^tries,  the  improve- 
ment of  our  public  highways,  a  id  the 
colonization  of  our  wild  lands.  These  inex- 
haustible souices  of  wealth,  if  wisely  managed, 
would  double  our  numbers,  our  reveaue  and 
our  power,  and  would  in  that  way  confer  upon 
us  means  of  defence  much  more  effective 
than  those  which  we  should  receive  from 
Confederation,  which  would  crush  the  people 
under  taxes  imposed  to  meet  the  expense 
of  imperfectly  defending  our  frontier.  And 
is  it  suppose.:  for  a  moment  that  when  we 
have  in  s©  urgent  a  manner  decreed  the 
fortification  of  our  frontier,  the  arming  of 
our  militia-i:eu,  and  the  establishment  of  a 
fleet  on  our  inland  seas,  that  the  United 
States  will  do  the  same  and  that  they  will 
follow  the  example  set  them  of  such  ruinous 
folly  ?  Is  it  supposed  that  the  American 
statesmen  will  not  immediately  perceive,  as 
we  are  desirous  of  raising  ourselves  up  as  an 
enemy  on  their  frontier,  and  of  entailing  upon 
them  an  enormous  outlay  in  order  to  hold  us 
in  check,  that  it  will  be  for  them  a  mere 
question  of  economy  to  attack  us  now  and  to 
take  possession  of  the  country,  before  it  is  in 
our  power  to  oblige  them  to  keep  up  that 


622 


ruinously  expensive  war  footing  ?  And  what 
could  we  do  atrainst  an  icvading  army  of  two 
or  three  hundred  thousaud  mart,  with  our 
treasury  exhausted  by  the  iortifications,  and 
with  hardly  any  assistance  from  Eugland, 
whose  policy  at  this  moment  is  anti-colonial  ? 
I  cannot  understand  how,  in  faceof  the  dangei 
which  is  impending  over  us,  and  for  which 
we  are  so  little  prepared,  the  Government 
can  thus  cast  defiance  in  the  teeth  of 
the  powerful  nation  who  are  adjacent  to 
U6,  and  whose  armies  now  in  the  field 
could  set  at  naught  any  resistance  to 
immediate  invasion.  I  assert  it  positively, 
Mr.  Speaker,  the  United  States  have  nut 
the  least  intention  of  attacking  us,  so  long  as 
we  remain  peaceable  spectators  of  their  fra- 
tricidal struggle,  and  so  long  as  we  continue 
to  confine  ourselves  to  peaceful  occupations. 
But  if,  on  the  contrary,  we  create  here  a 
hostile  military  pjwer,  if  we  establish  here 
the  throne  of  a  viceroy  or  of  a  foreign  mon- 
arch, in  defiance  of  the  principles  which  form 
the  groundwork  upon  which  rests  the  politi- 
cal syptem  of  the  United  States,  we  may  then 
rest  assured  that  the  neighbouring  republic 
will  sweep  away  that  monarchical  organiza- 
tion, established  in  rivalry  to  its  own  demo- 
cratic system.  (Hear,  hear.)  Such,  Mr. 
Speaker,  is  the  question  in  its  mo^t  seri  us 
aspect.  1  shall  not  enlarge  upon  the  details 
of  the  scheme  ot  Coniederation,  which  have 
been  so  ably  criticised  by  the  hon.  members 
who  have  preceded  me ;  and  besides  I  shall 
have  an  opportunity  of  discussing  them 
when  the  amendments  to  the  scheme  are 
submitted  to  the  House.  But  I  may  now 
say  that  those  details  cannot  be  accepted  by 
the  people.  We  have  already  received  nu- 
merous petitions  praying  for  the  rejection  of 
the  measure,  and  those  petitions  contiiiuc  to 
reach  u.s  every  day.  Now,  I  ask  you,  Mr. 
Speakfr,  what  the  sentiments  of  the  people 
will  be  if  that  scheme  is  adopted,  and  if  in 
the  course  of  two  months  it  is  returned  to 
us  from  England,  after  having  receiv<  d  the 
sanction  of  the  Imperial  Parliament,  without 
itw  having  been  possible  for  us  to  alter  the 
mo.st  trifling  of  its  details?  Is  it  supposed, 
after  a  Constitution  shall  have  bicn  forced 
on  the  French-Canadians,  which  they  have 
opposed  to  the  utmost,  that  they  will  be 
very  enthusia.'^tic  in  the  defence  of  that  Con- 
Btitutiun  which  shall  have  deprived  them  of 
a  part  of  the  political  rights  wliich  they  en- 
joyed '(  And,  it  cannot  be  denied,  by  adopt- 
ing the  proposed  Confederation,  we  yield  up 
tiome  of  the  privileges  which  we  now  eujoy) 


have   not  our  Ministers  themselves  told  ua 
that  under  the  pressure  of  the  demands  of 
Upper  Canada  it  was  necessary  to  make  con- 
cessions at  the  Quebec  Conference,  in  order 
to  ensure  the  adoption  of  the  present  scheme? 
The  hostile  majority  of  Upper  ('anada  have 
obtained  representation  based  on  population, 
against     which      Lower    Canada     has     so 
energetically    struggled    for    fifteen    years, 
because    slie    saw    iu    that    concession     the 
annihilation  of    our    ii.fluencc    as    a    race. 
Under  these  circumstances,    Mr.  Speaker, 
is  it  supposed  that   reliance   is  to  be  placed 
on  the  assistance  of  the  French-Canadians, 
who  were  formerly  so  terrible  in  the  attack, 
and    who    fought,    without    hesitation,  one 
against  ten,  a  proportion   iu  which  we  shall 
again  find  ourselves  opposed  to  the  Americans 
in  the  probable  event  of  a  war  ?     To  hope 
that  they  will  fight   with   the  same  impulse 
now,  when   they  are   being  deprived  of  the 
surest  guarantees  of  their  natural  existence 
and  of  their  most  sacred   political  lights,  is 
greatly  to  deceive   ourselves,  and   to  betray 
ignorance  of  what  has  always  been  the  cause 
of  their  heroism  in  the  conflict.     Under  the 
Constitution  as  it  is,  they  would  again  fight 
with  similar  courage,  regardless  of  numbers, 
because  they   love   that  Constitution  which 
secures  to  them  all  that  thry  hold  most  dear, 
and  because  they  wish  to  preserve  it.     Under 
Confederation,    on    the    contrary,    we    have 
nothing  left   to  defend;  our  influence  as  a 
race  is  gone,  and  sooner  than  be  absorbed  in 
a  Confederation,  the  existence  of  which  will 
prove    a   source    of  constant  strife   without 
bringing  with   it   compensating  advantages, 
the  people   dissatisfied  will   seek  other  and 
more  advantageous  political  and  commercial 
alliances,  and   for   this  reason    it   is    that  I 
consider  that  the   scheme  of  Confederation 
will  lead  us  directly  to    annexation  to  the 
United   States.       When   the  commissioners 
I'rom  the  North  and  the  South  recently  had 
an  interview  iu  order  to  decide  the  possible 
conditions  of  an  honorable  peace,  one  of  the 
three  propositions  submitted  by  the  North 
was  to  the  eff'ect  that  the  two  armies  should 
not    be    disbanded    after    the   cessation    of 
ho.stilities,    but   s^honld    be    united    for  the 
purpose  of  carrying  on  a  foreign  war.    Now, 
Mr.  Speaker,   whit  does  the  expression, 
"  foreign   war,"  when    used    by   the  United 
States,    mean,    except    war    upon    ('atiada  ? 
And  what   could  the  fifty  battalions  which 
Eii^'Iand  could  send  us  do  against  the  com- 
bined armies  of  the  North  and   tho  South, 
the  Btreugth  uf  whioh  auiounts  to  a  million  of 


623 


men  ?  Situated  at  a  distance  of  a  thousand 
leagues  from  us,  Great  Britain,  with  all  her 
material  of  war  and  our  militia,  could  not 
defend  Canada  against  so  poweriul  an  enemy, 
except  at  the  cost  of  tho  greatest  sacrifices. 
It  is  not,  therefore,  at  a  time  when  we  are 
placed  in  such  great  straits,  that  we  should 
exclaim  loudly  that  we  do  not  fear  the  struggle, 
and  that  we  are  ready  to  measure  our  strength 
against  that  of  the  States  of  the  American 
Union.  It  is  equally  absurd  to  give  umbrage 
to  their  institutions  by  creating  beside  them 
a  political  organization  to  which  they  are 
fundamentally  opposed.  Is  it  believed  that 
our  monarchical  pretensions  and  our  threats 
are  of  a  nature  to  intimidate  the  American 
statesmen  ?  In  their  eyes  we  are  but  pig- 
mies hurling  threats  at  giants.  Let  the 
war  come  with  the  Constitution  as  it  is,  and 
we  shall  find  a  hundred  thousand  volunteers 
ready  to  delend  our  frontier.  But  if  the 
Government  impose  on  the  French-Cana- 
dians the  scheme  of  Confederation,  irom 
which  they  have  so  much  fear,  and  which 
may  prove  to  be  productive  of  the  most 
disastrous  consequences  to  their  institutions, 
their  language  and  their  laws,  t  len,  I  am 
bound  to  say,  there  will  be  hesitation  in  our 
ranks  at  the  time  when  every  man  will  be 
marching  towards  almost  certain  death  for 
the  deftjQce  of  a  flag  which  will  no  longer 
confer  upon  our  race  the  guarantees  of  pr^Kec- 
tion  which  it  to-day  secures  to  us.  I  say,  then, 
that  the  time  is  ill  chosen  to  make  such 
serious  changes,  and  to  lay  the  foundation 
of  an  Empire  the  existence  of  which,  threat- 
ened both  from  the  interior  and  from  the 
exterior,  will  be  of  but  a  few  days'  duration. 
For  with  dissatisfaction  among  the  French- 
Canadians,  deprived  of  their  rights  and 
privileges,  it  is  impossible  for  Eogland 
to  maintain  her  power  here  against  three 
hundred  thousand  men  invadiug  our  terri- 
tory at  ten  different  poiots  along  our  fron- 
tier. The  wisest  policy  which  we  can 
pursue,  at  this  critical  moment,  is  therefore 
remain  peaceable^  spectators  of  the  strug- 
gle between  our  neighbors,  to  open  our 
forests  to  colonization,  to  turn  to  account 
our  mines  and  water-powers,  to  clear  our 
wild  lands,  and  to  labor  without  ceasing  to 
to  recall  our  unfortunate  countrymen  who 
are  now  scattered  over  American  soil.  Let 
us  construct  rai  ways,  let  us  double  our 
manufacturing  industry,  let  us  enlarge  our 
canals,  let  us  extend  our  network  of  rail- 
ways to  the  Maritime  Provinces  ;  and  when 
we  have  attained  great  proportions  as  a  peo- 


ple, when  our  prosperity  shall  have  increased 
fivefold,  and,  above  all,  when  the  terrible 
hurricane  which  threatens  to  destroy  every- 
thing in  North  America  shall  have  termi- 
nated its  work  of  ruin,  and  finally  when 
we  shall  be  strong  enough  to  protect 
ourselves  from  external  attacks,  and  the 
French-Canadians  especially  shall  have  ob- 
tained sufl&oieut  power  to  have  nearly 
equality  of  representation  in  tho  General 
Parliament,  it  will  be  time  enough  to  lay 
the  foundation  of  a  great  Confederation  of 
the  British  North  American  Proviuces, 
based  on  the  protective  principle  of  the 
sovereignty  of  the  states.  Under  these 
circumstances  Confederation  will  produce 
abundant  fruits,  and  will  be  welcomed  by 
the  people  of  this  country,  and  especially  by 
the  French-Canadians,  who,  having  doubled 
in  number  in  the  interval,  will  be  in  a 
position  to  demand  infiuitely  more  advan- 
tageous conditions  than  those  which  are 
forced  upon  them  to-day.  We  shall  not  then 
have  our  present  political  rights,  which  were 
so  dearly  obtained  by  the  struggles  of  a 
century,  replaced  by  local  governments, 
which  will  be  nothing  more  than  municipal 
councils,  vested  with  small  and  ab.surd 
powers,  unworthy  of  a  free  people,  which 
allow  us  at  most  the  control  of  our  roads, 
our  schools  and  our  lands  ;  but  we  shall 
then  obtain  local  governments  based  on  the 
sovereignty  of  states,  as  is  the  case  under  tho 
Constitution  of  the  United  States.  The 
fact  is  not  to  be  denied :  the  American 
Constitution  was  created  by  great  men  in 
fiice  of  a  crowd  of  considerable  and  op- 
posite local  interests,  and  it  cost  them 
several  years  of  deep  study  to  reconcile 
those  various  interests,  and  finally  to  build 
up  that  admirable  Constitution  which,  as  the 
hon.  member  for  Brome  has  so  well  said, 
defie.s  the  most  severe  criticism  in  relation  to 
its  most  important  bases.  With  a  Consti- 
tution like  that  of  the  United  States,  baeed 
upon  state  sovereignty.  Lower  Canada 
would  elect  her  own  governor  and  her 
representatives  in  the  Federal  Parliament 
and  Legislative  Council,  and  also  all  the 
Executive  Ministers. 

Mr.  DUFRESNE  (Montcalm)  —  We 
should  also  appoint  the  judges. 

Mr.  PERRAULT— [f  the  hon.  member 
for  Montcalm  had  listened  atteutively  to  the 
remarkable  speech  of  the  hon.  member  for 
Brome,  he  would  have  learned  that  in 
the  majority  of  the  states  composing  the 
American   Union,  the  judges   are   not  ap- 


624 


pointed  by  the  people,  but  by  the  Execu- 
tive branch  of  the  local  government,  in 
precisely  tbe  same  way  as  in  Canada,  and 
that  they  are  in  every  respect  as  upright 
and  as  distinguished  as  our  own  judges. 
If  our  French-Canadian  Ministers  had  not 
been  in  so  powerless  a  minority  in  the 
Quebec  Conference  (four  to  thirty-two),  they 
would  certainly  not  have  accepted  a  scheme 
of  Con  federation  so  fraught  with  danger  to  the 
French  race  as  that  which  has  been  submitted 
to  us.  They  would  have  obtained  more 
favorable  conditions  than  those  which  are 
imposed  upon  us,  among  which  is  the 
appointment  for  life  of  the  legislative 
eouQcillors,  by  the  Executive  branch  of  the 
Greneral  Legislature.  For  my  part,  Mr, 
Speaker,  I  am  not  in  favor  of  the  appoint- 
ment for  life  of  men  taken  from  the  crowd 
to  be  converted  into  the  instruments  of 
oppression,  and  too  often  to  serve  to  cast 
impediments  iu  tbe  way  of  the  most  import- 
ant liberties  and  rights  of  the  people.  The 
appointment  for  life  of  the  legislative 
councillorti  by  a  majority  which  is  hostile 
to  our  race  is  as  dangerous  to-day  as  it  was 
in  the  ii-ost  evil  days  of  our  history,  and  to 
accept  it  is  to  place  our  n  ost  precious  liber- 
ties at  the  mercy  of  the  enemies  of  our  race. 
With  such  provisions  in  the  Constitution 
which  it  is  proposed  to  force  upon  us,  it  is 
impossible  that  the  French  element  should 
be  protected  in  the  Legislative  Council.  It 
is  equally  impossible  that  the  aggressive 
tendencies,  of  which  I  gave  an  historical 
sketch  in  the  first  part  of  my  remarks,  will 
not  produce  their  eflfect  in  tho  Federal  Ex- 
ecutive, when  the  question  of  the  appoint- 
ment of  those  members  is  being  settled. 
We  have  been  told,  "  The  French  Canadian 
section  will  resign  if  the  Federal  Executive 
atteir.pt to  practice  injustice  to  the  detriment 
of  their  fellow  countrymen."  Well,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  would  willingly  believe  that 
they  would  resign,  and  that  no  successors 
could  be  found  for  them,  which  is  still  more 
improbable,  and  I  should  like  to  know  to 
what  such  a  resignation  would  lead,  and 
what  sort  of  a  remedy  it  would  provide  tor 
our  humiliating  position.  We  shall  have 
forty-eight  members  in  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment against  one  hundred  and  forty  of 
English  origin  ;  in  other  words,  we  shall  be 
in  the  proportion  of  one  to  four.  What 
could  so  weak  a  minority  do  to  obtain  justice? 
Evidently  the  resignation  of  the  French 
section  would  make  it  still  more  powerless, 
And  it  would   have  to  accept  the  tyrannical 


dictates  of  its  opponents.  The  French 
members  of  the  present  Government  them- 
selves give  as  the  ground  of  the  necessity  of 
the  proposed  changes,  the  fact  that  the 
existing  Constitution  does  not  affi)rd  us  suf- 
ficient guarantees.  But  then,  what  sort  of 
guarantees  shall  we  have  under  the  Confeder- 
ation which  it  is  proposed  to  force  upon  us  and 
under  which  we  shall  be  in  a  minority  twice 
as  great  ?  Let  us  suppose  the  very  probable 
contingency  of  a  collision  between  our  Local 
Legislature  and  the  Federal  Government,  in 
consequence  of  the  rejection  of  a  measure 
passed  by  the  Province  of  Lower  Canada  and 
thrown  out  by  the  Genera!  Parliament ;  in 
what  position  shall  we  be  ?  Let  us  remember 
that  the  Federal  Executive  appoints  the 
Legislative  Council,  presides  over  the  crim- 
inal legislation  of  the  country,  and  appoints 
the  judges  who  administer  it ;  in  a  word,  that 
in  the  Federal  Government  are  vested  all 
sovereign  powers,  to  the  exclusion  of  the 
local  governments.  Well,  3Ir.  Speaker,  I 
say  without  hesitation  that  in  the  case  of  a 
collision,  we  shall  find  ourselves  completely 
at  the  mercy  of  the  hostile  Federal  majority, 
and  that  it  may  oppress  us,  assimilate  our 
laws,^  suspend  our  judges,  arm  the  militia 
against  us,  and  send  us  to  the  scaffold  or  into 
exile  iu  any  way  they  may  think  proper,  not- 
withstanding our  protestations  and  those  of 
the  French-Canadian  minority  in  the  Federal 
Parliament.  Such  has  already  been  found 
to  occur ;  the  past  is  there  to  prove  the  fact, 
and  everything  leads  us  to  believe  that  the 
same  attempts  at  fanatical  aggression  will  be 
renewed  in  our  day,  if  the  scheme  of  Confed- 
eration is  adopted.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon. 
member  for  Brome,  whose  loyalty  will  cer- 
tainly not  be  called  in  question,  himself 
declared  in  this  House  that  this  scheme 
would  give  rise  to  difficulties  and  entail 
deplorable  collisions.  Supposing,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, that  those  collisions  and  difficulties  arise, 
what  shall  we  do  ?  Will  not  all  power  be  in 
the  hands  of  the  Federal  Government  and  of 
a  hostile  majority  ?  Is  it  not  because  the 
people  understand  it  that  they  reject  this 
measure  with  threats  on  their  lips  and  in 
their  eyes;  that  evi-ry  day  they  send  us 
numerous  petitions  iu  which  they  prophesy 
the  most  serious  dissatisfaction  ?  How  lon^ 
will  the  eyes  and  the  ears  of  the  members  of 
this  House  remain  closed,  that  they  may  not 
be  cognisant  of  this  protest  of  their  alaruied 
fellow-countrymen  ?  The  Hon.  Atty.  Gen. 
East  himself  refuses  to  commuuicatu  to  us  a 
single  one  of  thu  detaib  of  tho  schdine  of 


625 


Confederation,  and  he  would  have  us  give  up 
all  the  rights  which  the  existing  Constitution 
confers  upon  us,  by  voting  in  favor  of  a  Local 
Legislature  of  which  the    powers    will    be 
naught,  and  of  a  General  Parliamentin  which 
we  shall  be  in  the  proportion  of  one  to  four. 
Mr.  Speaker,  it  is  not  surprising  that  the 
Ffench-Caoadiau    population   of  Lower  Ca- 
nada is  unanimous  in  rejecting  a  Confedera- 
tion which  presents  to  us  so  gloomy  a  future — 
(hear,  hear) — and  I  do  not  fear  to  declare 
that  our  Ministers  are  committing  an  act  of 
very  great  imprudence  in  forcing  upon  the 
people  constitutional  changes  of  so  serious  a 
character,  and   so   loudly  denounced  as  an 
attack  on   their  rights  and  their  privileges. 
Never,   at  any    period  of  our  history,  have 
there  been  seen  such  changes  of  constitu- 
tion under  such  extraordinary  circumstances. 
And  exactly  at    the    moment   when  we   are 
preparing  to  resist  the  invading  army  of  a 
powerful  neighbor,  we  are  deprived  of  the 
liberties  which  we  enjoy  after  having  secured 
them   by  a   century   of  struggles.     But  it 
seems  to  me  that  new  guarantees  of  security 
ought  rather  to  be  given  us,  in  order  to  in- 
duce us  to  fight  with  warlike    antagonists 
ten  times  more  numerous  than  ourselves,  and 
whose  political  organization  is  perhaps  less 
hostile  to  our  race  than   the  proposed  Con- 
federation.    Have  not  the  present  Ministry 
taught   us   to   look   upon  the  semblance  of 
local  government,  which  they  propose  to  us, 
as  a  sufficient  protection  for  all  that  we  hold 
.  most  dear,  and  to  accept  the  position  of  a 
powerless  minority  in  the  General  Govern- 
ment,   because  commercial    interests    only 
will  be  brought  in  question  there  ?     If  this 
proposition  is  a  just  one,  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States,  with  the  recognized  sove- 
reignty   of    Lower    Canada,    affords    much 
greater  security  for  our  institutions,  our  lan- 
guage and  our  laws.     For  the  sovereignty  of 
the  state  implies   their  preservation   in  the 
state,  which  yields  up  nothing  to  the  Gene- 
ral  Government   except   a    very   restricted 
number  of  powers.     Yes,  Mr.  Speaker,  in 
proposing  a  change  of  Constitution  the  Min- 
istry have    committed   a   serious  fault,  and 
they  have  no   right  to   endeavor  to  prevent 
the  people  of  this  province  from  examining 
the  question  of  possible  changes   in  ail  its 
bearings.      Scarcely   six    mouths   ago    the 
French-Canadians     lived    happily,    relying 
upon  the  security  given  them   by  the  exist- 
ing Constitution.     Now  such  can   hardly  be 
the  case,  when  the  pioposed  changes  threaten 
their    existence  as   a  race.     Impose    these 
80 


changes   upon    them,  and    then    let    danger 
come,  and    England  will    fiud    out,   but   too 
late,  that  her  most  loyal  subjec's  are  lost  to 
her.       Our   people    will    have  learr.ed    that 
of   two    evils    they  must   choose    tho    least, 
and    that  on    a    comparison   between    Con- 
federation   and    annexation,   the   least    evil 
will  not,  unfortunately,  be  found  to  be  Con- 
i'ederation.     Before  marching  on  to  certain 
slaughter,  the   soldier  will  ask  himself  for 
what  he  is  going  to  fight,  and  whether  the 
Constitution  which  he  is  going  to  defend  is 
wor^h  the  sacrifice  of  his  life's  blood.     The 
day  upon  which  the  French-Canadian  soldier 
puts  this  question  to  himself,  will  be  the  last 
day  of  the  English  power  in  America.  I  hope 
I  may  be  mistaken,    Mr.  Speaker,  and  I 
would    wish  to  believe  that  the  views  of  the 
Government  are    sounder    than    mine,  at  a 
time  when  they  propose  a  measure  so  full  of 
danger  as  that  which  is  submitted  to  us.     I 
would  wish   to  believe,  above  all,  that  they 
have  no  intention  of  skilfully  leading  us  into 
a  collision  with  our  neighbors,  which  would 
tend  to  carry  us  directly  int d  annexation,  and 
would    strike    a    mortal    blow    at    English 
domination  on   this  continent.     I  shall  con- 
clude, Mr.  Speaker,  b/  summing  up  my 
remarks.     The   union  of  the   two  Canadas 
has  not   yet    done   all    its  work.     There  is 
still  room  for  progress  under  it,  and  it  must 
be  continued.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General  for 
Lower  Canada  (Hon.    Mr.  CARXlEa)  main- 
tains on  the  contrary  that  it   has  no  longer 
any  grounds  of  existence,  and  that  we  must 
have  a  new  political  organization.     Well,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  venture  to  hold  an  opinion  differ- 
ent from  that  of  the  hon.  member  for  Mon- 
treal East,  and  I  have  no  hesitation  in  say- 
ing that  under  the  union  we  can  yet  double 
our  prosperity  and  our  numbers,  if  we  intro- 
duce into  the  administration  of  affairs  a  little 
less  party  spirit  and  a  little  more  patriotism. 
(Hear,  hear.)    I  say,  further,  that  the  demand 
for  representation  based  on  population  has 
no  cau.-^e  of  existence,  that  it  was  repudiated 
by  Upper  Canada,  at  first  by  the  Conserva- 
tive party,  and  afterwards   by  the  Liberal 
party  under  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Ad- 
ministration.    When  we  have  seen  the  most 
energetic    and    most    sincere    partisans    of 
representatioa  based  on  population  abandon 
that   principal   basis    of  their    polities,  and 
muke  of  it,  in  their  government,  a  question 
ag;iiust  which  they   engaged   to  vote,  I  say 
that  it  is  very  wrong  to  use  it  as  one  of  the 
reasocs  to  compel  us  to  accept  the  scheme 
of  Confederation.     That  cry,  raised  by  fan- 


626 


aticism  in  the  west,  will  naturally  be  stifled 
by  the  more  rapid  increase  of  the  population 
of  Lower  Canada  and  the  annual  diminution 
of  immigration.  With  the  assistance  of 
these  two  causes  our  population  will,  in 
ten  years,  equal  that  of  Upper  Canada.  I 
say,  3Ir.  Speaker,  that  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation is  not  expedient.  But  even  if 
the  scbeme  of  Confederation  was  expedient, 
I  maintain  that  the  object  of  it  is  hostile. 
I  gave  an  historical  sketch  of  the  encroach- 
ing spirit  of  the  English  race  on  the  two 
continents.  I  pointed  out  the  incessant 
antagonism  existing  between  it  and  the 
French  race.  Our  past  recalled  to  us  the 
constant  struggle  which  we  had  to  keep  up 
in  order  to  resist  the  atrgression  and  the 
exclusiveness  of  the  English  element  in 
Canada.  It  was  only  through  heroic  resist- 
ance and  a  happy  combination  of  circum- 
stances that  we  succeeded  in  obtaining  the 
political  rights  which  are  secured  to  us  by 
the  present  Constitution.  The  scheme  of 
Confederation  has  no  other  object  than  to 
deprive  us  of  the  most  precious  of  those 
rights,  by  sub.stituting  for  them  a  political 
organization  which  is  eminently  hostile  to 
us.  The  hostility  of  the  scheme  of  Confed- 
eration being  admitted,  I  maintain  that  its 
adoption  will  entail  the  most  disastrous 
consequences.  To  impose  upon  the  French- 
Canadians  this  new  Cunstitution,  which  they 
do  not  want,  is  to  tempt  their  anger  and  to 
expose  ourselves  to  deplorable  collisions. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  must  necessarily  be  sub- 
mitted to  them  before  it  is  adopted  :  if  they 
accept  it,  then  will  be  the  time  to  send  it  to 
England  to  be  sanctioned.  But  the  Govern- 
ment, and  especially  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral East,  cannot  ignore  the  petitions  which 
are  presented  to  us  against  the  scheme,  and 
especially  so  imposing  a  petition  as  that  from 
the  city  of  Montreal,  which  contains  6,<J00 
French-Catiaflian  sii^natures,  and  which  is  the 
most  numerously  signed  petition  which  has 
ever  been  presented  to  our  legislature  by  a 
city.  I  say,  further,  that  those  who  vote  for 
the  scheme  of  Confederation  take  the  shortest 
way  to  lead  us  into  annexation  to  the  United 
States.  I  am  not  the  first  to  express  this  opi- 
nion ;  several  lion,  members  from  Upper  Ca- 
nada have  expressed  it  before  mc  within  the 
precincts  of  this  House,  and  it  is  because 
those  members  from  Upper  Canada  desire 
annexation  to  the  United  States  that  they 
vote  in  favor  of  the  scheme  of  Confederation. 
The  hon.   members   from   the  west,  whose 


words  are  so  loyal,  will  be  the  first  to  pass 
over  to  the  enemy  with  arms  and  baggage, 
should  an  invading  army  ever  appear  on 
the  frontier.  Such,  Mr.  Speaker,  i.s  the 
position  as  it  is.  If  His  Excellency  the 
Governor  General  thinks  he  ought  to  follow 
the  advice  of  those  who  look  to  Washington, 
let  him  even  do  so;  but  I  think  it  is  high 
time  to  speak  plainly  here,  an  1  to  warn  him 
of  the  danger.  (Hear,  hear.)  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  am  not  an  old  man  with  one  foot  already 
in  the  grave,  and  on  the  verge  of  eternity, 
and  I  adopt  my  course  in  view  of  the  future. 
Our  Ministers,  who,  in  the  course  of  a  long 
career,  have  exhausted  the  supply  of  honor 
and  of  dignity  in  our  country,  are  perhaps 
tempted  to  risk  the  future  of  their  country 
for  titles,  honors  and  larger  salaries  under 
Confederation,  perhaps  for  the  sake  of  being 
governor  of  one  of  the  Federated  Provinces. 
We  know  that  Eugbnd  nobly  and  royally 
rewards  those  who  serve  her  without  scruple. 
Besides,  the  prospect  of  founding  a  vast 
empire  is  well  worth  the  sacrifice  of  some 
months  of  a  worn  out  career,  at  the  risk  of 
not  succeeding  entirely  in  so  gigantic  a  pro- 
ject. (Hear,  hear.)  But  for  my  part,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  who  belong  to  the  coming 
generation,  and  who  have  twenty  years  of 
future  before  me,  cannot  approve,  by  my 
vote,  of  a  scheme  of  Constitution  which  pre- 
sents itself  to  us  in  such  a  gloomy  perspective 
as  regards  our  nationality,  and  all  that  wo 
hold  most  dear  as  Frenchmen.  If  I  am  thus 
severe  in  my  remarks,  Mr  Speakkr,  I  hope 
it  will  be  understood  that  th.ey  proceed  from 
profound  conviction  ;  and  it  is  well  known 
that  thuse  who  have  honey  on  thoir  lips  are 
not  always  the  most  sincere  at  heart,  i 
know  also  that  sometimes  those  who  state 
boldly  what  they  think  pay  very  dearly  !ur 
their  boldness  and  indopcndeuce,  but  no 
dread  of  this,  Mr.  Speaker,  shall  ever 
cause  me  to  shrink  from  expressing  my  con- 
victions, when  I  consider  that  my  doing  so 
may  be  uf  any  use  to  my  country.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  prolonged  Opposition  cheers.) 

Crios  of   "Adjourn,  adjourn!  "  from  the 
Opposition. 


No, 


no 


Call 


Hon.  Mr.   CAllTIEll 

in  the  members. 

Hon.  a.  a.  DOllION  s.id  ho  had  moved 
the  adjournment  of  the  dtlnto  last  evening, 
to  have  an  opportunity  of  n  ;iiyinj:  to  the  hon- 
orable member  f(^r  >lontm'"-.'ney  (Hon.  Mr. 
C.VUCllON).  But  as  that  honorable  gentle- 
man was  not  in  his  place  in  the  afternoon,  lie 


627 


had  yielded  the  floor  to  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Richelieu  (Mr.  Perrault).  The 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency,  he  ob- 
served, was  still  out  of  the  House,  and  he 
should  like  to  defer  his  remarks  till  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  should  be  in  his  seat.  (Cries 
of  "Adjourn/'  and  "  Go  on.") 

Col.  HAULTAI2n  then  rose  to  address 
the  House.  He  said  —  If  the  House  will 
permit  me,  I  shall  relieve  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  DoRiON).  It 
is  not  surprising  to  me,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
there  should  be  this  hanging  back  on  the  part 
of  honorable  members  with  regard  to  express- 
ing their  views  on  this  subject,  as  so  much 
has  been  said  about  it,  that  it  is  now,  I  won't 
say  thoroughly,  but  very  nearly  worn  out. 
And  for  my  own  part,  in  common,  I  suppose, 
with  all  who  will  have  to  speak  at  this  stage 
of  the  debate,  I  feel  reluctant  to  trespass  on 
the  time  of  the  House.  At  the  same  time, 
I  cannot  properly  call  it  a  trespass,  but 
must  rather  consider  it  a  duty.  On  a  mat- 
ter of  this  very  great  importance,  involving 
the  interests  of  so  large  a  portion  of  this  con- 
tinent, I  think  it  behoves  most  of  us  to  ex- 
press our  opinions  with  the  best  ability  that 
we  can  bring  to  the  subject.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  have  had  this  question  -discussed  from  so 
many  points  of  view,  and,  I  presume,  by  the 
ablest  men  who  occupy  public  positions  in 
Canada,  that  a  humble  individual  like  myself 
must  feel  great  diffidence  in  saying  another 
word  on  the  subject.  But  it  is  no  small  en- 
couragement to  know — at  any  rate  I  feel  it  to 
be  an  encouragement  in  speaking  in  advocacy 
of  the  scheme — that  I  am  in  such  good  com- 
pany, that  the  leading  men  in  this  province, 
the  leading  men  in  the  British  Provinces  gen- 
erally, and  I  may  even  say  the  leading  men  in 
the  British  Empire,  are  all  agreed  as  to  the 
desirableness  of  what  is  now  proposed,  and  as 
to  the  wisdom  which  has  been  displayed  in 
the  framing  of  the  scheme  now  submitted  for 
our  adoption.  1  do  not  expect  to  say  anything 
new,  and  the  fear  of  repeating  what  has  already 
been  said  makes  me  reluctant  to  say  anything 
at  all;  and  were  I  to  consult  my  own  feelings, 
I  have  no  doubt  I  should  be  silent,  and  would 
rise  only  when  you  call  on  us,  Mr.  Speaker,  to 
give  our  votes  either  for  or  against  the  reso- 
lutions in  your  hand.  I  think  every  honor- 
able membjr  who  has  spoken  in  this  debate 
has  expressed  his  sense  of  the  responsibility 
resting  upon  him,  when  addressing  the  House 
and  the  country  on  a  matter  of  such  vast  im- 
portance to  us  all.  I  feel  equally  with  others 
how  great  is  this  responsibility,  and  have  en- 


deavoured to  bring  the  best  powers  of  my 
mind  to  the  consideration  of  the  question. 
The  more  we  consider  it,  the  more  we  look 
into  the  future  in  connection  with  our  present 
movement,  the  larger  the  importance,  I  believe, 
it  must  assume  in  our  minds.  It  not  only 
afi"ect3  the  interests  of  Canada,  but  of  all  the 
British  Provinces  of  this  continent.  Its  pro- 
bable results  will  materially  afiect  th«  future, 
both  of  the  British  Empire  and  of  the  neigh- 
bouring republic,  and,  therefore,  more  or  less 
the  future  of  the  world  at  large.  I  do  not 
think  that  I  am  using  languge  at  all  exagger- 
ated. From  the  best  consideration  I  have 
been  able  to  give  to  this  subject,  I  believe 
there  are  under-lying  the  question  now  before 
us  principles  of  the  greatest  importance  to 
the  world.  I  believe  there  are  principles  in- 
volved in  our  present  action  that  must  ver)-- 
much  determine  the  character  of  the  institu- 
tions that  will  generally  prevail.  The  im- 
pression upon  my  own  mind  is,  that  if  suc- 
cessful, we  shall  give  greater  stability  and  a 
more  permanent  foothold  to  the  principles  that 
obtain  in  the  British  Constitution ;  but  that 
failing  in  our  present  object,  we  shall  see  the 
decadence  of  these  principles  on  this  contin- 
ent, and  the  advance  of  those  principles  which 
obtain  in  the  neighbouring  republic.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  more  I  consider  it,  the  stronger 
am  I  of  the  opinion,  that  at  the  present  time 
the  principles  of  democracy  and  of  monarch- 
ism — if  I  may  so  express  it — are  at  stake  ; 
and,  considering  it  in  this  view,  I  look  upon 
the  scheme  before  us  as  calling  for  the  most 
cordial  and  earnest  support  of  every  man  who 
has  learned  to  value  the  stability,  the  mo- 
deration, and  the  justice  which  have  cha- 
racterized the  Bi-itish  nation  as  compared 
with  any  other  nation  that  exists  on  the 
face  of  the  globe.  The  great  question 
before  us  is  that  of  union — a  practicable 
and  attainable  union  —  a  union  of  pro- 
vinces owning  allegiance  to  the  same  Crown, 
possessing,  generally,  similar  institutions, 
similar  systems  of  government,  the  same  lan- 
guage, the  same  laws,  the  same  dangers,  the 
same  enemies.  Our  institutions  are  generally 
similar,  although,  no  doubt,  from  having  been 
isolated  for  so  great  a  length  of  time,  and 
having  had  no  intercourse  one  with  the  other 
to  speak  of,  there  is  an  idiosyncracy  attached 
to  each  of  the  provinces  as  they  now  exist, 
and  the  longer  we  remain  separate  the  greater 
the  divergence  must  be,  and  the  more  difficult 
union  between  us  will  be  of  accomplishment. 
The  advocates  of  this  scheme  propose  the 
union  of  all  these  provinces.     It  is  a  trite 


628 


proverb  that  "  union  is  strength,  and  division 
is  •weakness."  So  universally  accepted  is  this 
statement,  that  no  man  can  venture  to  deny 
its  correctness.  And  I  feel,  as  an  advocate 
of  union,  that  our  position  is  one  ■which  is 
unassailable,  and  the  arguments  must  indeed 
be  strong  •which  would  convince  me  that  •we 
are  not  going  in  the  right  direction  when 
moving  towards  union  and  consolidation. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Apart  from  the  intrinsic  force 
and  power  of  union,  which  would  be  in  itself 
sufficient  to  call  us  in  that  direction,  Canada 
has  special  reasons  for  desiring  that  the  Brit- 
ish provinces  should  draw  together  more 
closely  than  they  have  yet  done.  By  such  a 
step  we  may  remove  one  great  cause  of  our 
own  political  difficulties.  I  do  not  think  that 
this  is  at  all  a  necessary  part  of  the  argument 
for  our  uniting  together.  But  it  so  happens 
that  by  our  union  we  hope  to  remove  those 
difficulties,  and  that  is  an  additional  argument 
for  union,  although  not  at  all  necessary  to 
induce  the  adoption  of  the  scheme.  I  believe 
that  if  we  had  no  difficulties  whatever  in 
Canada,  if  we  were  perfectly  satisfied  with 
our  political  position,  union  would  still  be 
desirable  on  the  broad  ground  of  the  advan- 
tages we  would  derive  from  it.  But,  in  addi- 
tion to  those  advantages,  and  the  force  and 
strength  which  union  will  give  us,  it  will  assist 
us  in  surmounting  and  removing  those  great 
difficulties  under  which  we  labor ;  and  it  is  a 
most  happy  circumstance  that,  while  we  are 
carrying  out  a  principle  so  excellent  in  itself, 
we  are  at  the  same  time  enabled  to  remove 
xiifficulties  which  might  prove  most  disastrous 
to  our  prospects.  And,  in  addition  to  these 
reasDns,  we  have  evidently  the  wishes  of  the 
Mother  Country  for  the  success  of  this  scheme. 
(Hear,  hear.)  No  one  can  with  reason  ques- 
tion the  reception  which  the  scheme  has  met 
with  from  the  press  and  from  men  of  all  shades 
of  political  opinion  in  the  Mother  Country. 
It  has  njct  with  univer.sai  approbation  there. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  has  been  no  jealousy 
of  it  that  I  know  of.  There  has  not  pro- 
ceeded IVom  any  quarter  one  word  of  disap- 
probation or  of  doubt  as  to  the  prudence  and 
the  wisdom  which  have  dictated  our  advances 
towards  union.  The  good  wishes  of  Great 
Britain  are  thoroughly  with  us.  (Hear, 
hear.)  An  additional  reason,  I  may  say 
necessity,  for  union  exists  in  the  hostility  of 
the  United  States  so  palpably  manifested 
during  the  p:ist  few  mouths.  In  fact,  sir, 
looking  at  all  our  intcrctts — our  interests 
socially  and  comnjercially — our  interests  of 
defence — our    internal    harmony — our    very 


existence  as  an  independent  people — all 
bid  U3  go  forward  in  the  direction  of 
union.  I  shall  allude  but  briefly  to  the  poli- 
tical difficulties  of  Canada,  as  this  part  of 
the  subject  has  been  most  ably  handled  by 
honorable  gentlemen  who  have  preceded  me. 
Our  difficulties,  I  had  fancied,  were  palpable 
to  all,  and  yet  we  have  heard  honorable  gen- 
tlemen who  are  opposed  to  the  scheme,  almost 
ignoring  their  existence,  or  treating  them  as 
though  they  did  not  weigh  in  the  scale  of  the 
arguments  on  this  question  at  all.  I  am  sorry 
my  hon.  friend  from  Brome  (3Ir.  Dcnkin) 
is  not  here,  as  I  will  have  to  refer  to  some  of 
his  remarks.  That  honorable  gentleman,  as 
well  as  others,  intimated  to  the  House  that 
our  difficulties  had  disappeared ;  that  since 
18G2  Upper  Canada  had  been  satisfied  with  her 
position  ;  that  agitation  had  been  laid  aside ; 
that  there  was  no  more  mention  of  any  sense  of 
injustice  on  the  part  of  Upper  Canada.  This 
line  of  remark  only  shews  me  how  ignorant 
those  lionorablc  gentlemen  were  of  the  subject 
on  which  they  were  speaking ;  how  entirely 
they  had  remained  in  the  dark  as  to  the  feelings 
which  existed  in  the  minds  of  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada ;  manifesting  a  degree  of 
ignorance  on  one  very  important  feature  of  our 
position,  that  rendered  them  to  a  great  degree 
incompetent  to  deal  with  this  question.  From 
much  that  I  have  heard  relative  to  the  cause 
of  the  dissatisfaction  known  to  prevail  in 
Upper  Canada,  I  think  it  well  not  to  be  alto- 
gether silent  about  it.  We  must  look  deeper 
than  the  displeasure  felt  and  manifested  at  the 
passing  of  certain  measures  obnoxious  to  the 
majority  of  that  section,  or  at  the  unjust 
principle  of  an  equal  distribution  of  the  public 
revenues  between  the  two  sections.  It  is  true 
that  these  tended  to  draw  attention  to,  and 
make  more  prominent  the  real  cause  of 
discontent.  It  lay  deep  in  the  chafing  of  the 
minds  of  men  whose  national  characteriitic  is 
impatience  of  intolerance  and  injustice.  It 
dwelt  in  the  abiding  sense  of  the  unfair  posi- 
tion that  the  terms  of  the  union  of  1840  now 
imposed  upon  them,  and  obeying  their  national 
instincts,  they  could  never  cease  to  insist  upon 
a  representative  reform.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
suppose  there  are  no  people  on  the  earth  who 
feel  more  strongly  or  who  will  resist  more 
determinedly  the  perpetration  and  continu- 
ance of  any  injustice.  It  was  that  sense  of 
injustice,  weigiiing  heavily  on  the  minds  of 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada,  that  rendered 
our  position  one  of  difficulty  and  of  danger  so 
long  as  relief  was  denied  them.  I  have  been 
surprised,   therefore,    to  hear   the  statement 


629 


which  has  beeu  made  by  some  hon.  gentlemen 
in  this  House,  that  the  feeliugs  of  dissatisfac- 
tion which  existed  in  Upper  Canada  have 
disappeared..  The  formation  of  the  Mac- 
DONALD-SicOTTE  Government  has  been  men- 
tioned as  a  proof  that  we  have  become  indif- 
ferent to  the  question  of  representation  by 
population,  which  had  been  so  repeatedly  and 
so  strongly  urged,  and  that  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  were  quite  willing,  for  the  sake 
of  some  small  material  advantages,  to  cast 
aside  that  for  which  they  had  been  agitating 
for  so  many  years.  In  opposition  to  this,  1 
must  state  that  there  was  the  strongest  dis- 
approbation felt  and  expressed  throughout 
Upper  Cauada  at  the  formation  of  that  Gov- 
ern)nent.  The  only  excuse  made  for  it  was, 
that  it  was  simply  a  provisional  government, 
and  that  its  formation  \vas  nothing  more  than 
a  temporary  measure.  I  would  not  hesitate 
or  fear  to  appeal  to  any  constituency  in  Upper 
Canada,  where  the  question  of  representation 
by  population  had  been  agitated,  and  ask  them 
to  say  whether  they  did  not  cherish  the 
strongest  feeliugs  of  disapprobation  that  that 
question  should  have  been  ignored  at  the  time 
of  the  formation  of  that  Government. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON  — North  Ontario 
elected  a  member  of  that  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— They  were  all  elect- 
ed. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— But  in  North 
Ontario  a  member  of  the  Government  came 
who  had  not  been  the  member  for  that  con- 
stituency before,  and  defeated  one  who  was  in 
favor  of  representation  by  population. 

Col.  haul  TAIN— In  alluding  to  this 
matter,  I  would  wish  to  guard  myself  against 
rousing  anything  like  party  questions  or  party 
feelings.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  desire,  in  dealing 
with  the  important  subject  now  under  debate, 
to  remember  that  the  question  before  us  now 
is  not  who  was  right  or  who  was  wrong  in 
1862  or  1863.  The  question  is,  are  we  right 
in  advancing  towards  union,  or  arc  we  making 
a  great  mistake  ;  but  where  it  is  necessary  for 
me  to  allude  to  the  course  pursued  by  either 
party,  it  is  for  the  purpose  of  argument  alone, 
and  not  in  any  way  to  raise  the  question  who 
was  right  or  who  to  blame.  I  stated,  sir,  that 
there  was  the  strongest  disapprobation — I 
might  more  correctly  say  disappointment — 
felt  in  Upper  Canada  that  the  question  of 
representation  by  population  should  have 
been  laid  aside  by  the  Macdonald-Sicotte 
Government.  I  felt  as  strongly  as  any 
man   could  have  done  the  unfortunate   posi- 


tion in  which  we  were  then  placed ;  but 
giving  it  the  best  consideration  I  could,  and 
believing  that  a  change  of  government  was 
desirable  under  almost  any  circumstances, 
I  most  unwillingly  consented.  I  believed 
nothing  else  could  have  been  done  at  the 
time.  It  was  the  opinion  of  most,  though 
not  of  all,  with  whom  I  then  acted — we  might 
have  been  wrong,  that  is  not  the  qfestion. 
Believing,  therefore,  that  we  could  not  then 
secure  the  success  of  the  measure  for  which 
we  had  been  agitating  and  which  we  had  been 
seeking,  we  thought  it  necessary  to  form  and 
acknowledge  and  support  a  provisional  gov- 
ernment, for  I  do  say  that  the  Government 
then  formed  was  in  my  estimation,  and  in  the 
estimation  of  Upper  Canada  generally,  a  pro- 
visional government — nothing  more  ;  a  Gov- 
ernment which  was  simply  tolerated,  and 
which  could  not  possibly  exist  for  any  length 
of  time.  It  was  a  government  formed  for  a 
certain  purpose,  and  Upper  Canada  sanctioned 
it  only  because  of  that  purpose,  which  was 
regarded  at  the  time  as  of  primary  import- 
ance. He  knows  little  of  the  mind  of  Upper 
Canada  who  sees  in  it  any  indiiierence  to  the 
question  of  parliamentary  reform.  It  was  a 
position  that  neither  party  has  anything  to 
boast  of;  the  apparent  inconsistency  of  the 
one  resulted  from  the  felt  misgovernment  of 
the  other.  It  is  no  small  pleasure  to  be  able 
cordially  and  consistently  to  act  with  honora- 
ble gentlemen  whom  I  strongly  opposed  be- 
fore, and  I  so  acted  because  1  thought  it  my 
duty  under  the  circumstances  so  to  do. — 
(Hear,  hear.)  "Well,  sir,  how  long  did  this 
provisional  government  last  ?  Within  one 
year  it  was  defeated,  and  before  it  could  shew 
Itself  to  Upper  Canada,  there  was  an  entire 
reconstruction  of  the  Cabinet — and  why  ?  Be^ 
cause  the  principal  measure  which  Upper  Can- 
ada had  demanded  was  lost  sight  of. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Hear !  hear ! 

Col.  HAULTAIN— There  can  be  no 
stronger  evidence  of  this  fact,  than  that  it  was 
necessary  to  bring  into  the  Cabinet  men  who 
truly  represented  the  views  and  wishes  of 
Upper  Canada,  and  men  also  in  Lower  Can- 
ada who  were  thought  to  be  more  friendly  to 
Upper  Cauada  demands.  Had  that  govern- 
ment, without  reconstruction,  gone  to  Upper 
Canada,  where  would  they  have  been?  Had 
they  gone  to  Upper  Canada  as  they  were,  and 
without  admitting  other  elements  into  the 
Cabinet,  they  would  have  met  with  a  very 
general  hostility.  The  Premier  himself  was 
made  fully  aware  of  this,  and  he  wisely  bowed 


680 


to  the  wishes  of  Upper  Canada.  There  can- 
not, therefore,  be  a  stronger  evidence  than 
this  of  the  fact  that  the  question  of  reform  in 
the  representation  was  not  laid  aside,  neither 
had  it  lost  one  iota  of  its  importance  in  the 
minds  of  the  great  majority  of  the  western 
section.  The  Government  that  had  ventured 
to  lay  it  aside  was  virtually  swept  away,  and 
anoth«r  formed  who  made  it  an  open  question. 
This,  sir,  lies  at  the  very  foundation  of  our 
difficulties.  It  has  been  the  source  of  our 
difficulties,  and  no  doubt  would  have  continued 
to  be,  had  no  remedy  been  provided.  I  have 
said  before  on  another  occasion,  and  I  repeat 
it,  that  the  minds  of  men  in  Upper  Canada 
were  filled  with  foreboding  as  to  the  future. 
They  feared  that  Lower  Canada  would  resist 
their  demands  ;  they  feared  that  Lower  Can- 
ada would  continue  to  deny  to  them  what 
appeared  to  them  to  be  palpably  just  and 
right,  and  what  the  end  of  it  all  would  be 
they  did  not  know.  I  confess  that  I  shared 
this  feeling  in  common  with  others ;  and  it 
was  a  matter  of  common  conversation  that 
things  could  not  continue  as  they  were  ;  tliat 
it  Was  impossible  for  Upper  Canada,  with  her 
superiority  in  numbers  and  in  wealth,  to 
consent  to  remain  in  the  united  Legislature 
in  the  inferior  position  she  then  occupied.  If 
the  attempt  had  been  persisted  in  to  deny  to 
that  section  what  was  so  reasonable  and  just,  no 
man  could  have  foretold  the  serious  difficulties 
which  might  liave  followed.  Hon.  gentle- 
men from  Lower  Canada,  who  have  expressed 
an  opinion  that  this  question  had  ceased  to 
be  considered  as  of  importance  in  the  west, 
manifest  a  verv  ercafc  ijjuorance  of  the  char- 
acter.  the  feelin,i.,8  and  the  intentions  of  the 
men  they  had  to  deal  with.  My  lion  friend 
from  Drome  was  one  of  those  who  wished  to 
make  light  of  our  present  diflieulties.  He 
said,  towards  the  close  of  his  speech,  that  it 
only  needed  a  litile  patience,  that  very  little 
wa;i  wanted  to  make  everything  quite  smooth. 
But,  sir,  even  he  was  obliged  to  admit  that 
u  slight  measure  of  parliamentary  reform 
was  necessary  in  order  to  remove  the  diffi- 
culties by  which  wo  were  surrounded,  and 
he  cviJently  intimated  his  willingness  to 
concede  it.  And  there  havo  been  hints 
thiowu  out  by  certain  Liberal  members  from 
Lower  Canada  that  it  would  not  be  such  an 
impossible  thing,  if  we  would  give  up  this 
scheme  of  union,  for  Upper  Canada  to  ob- 
tain her  right  positiun,  and  what  she  has  so 
justly  claimed.  But  if  ihis  be  their  feeling, 
I  ask  them  why  they  did  not  come  boldly 


out  before  and  avow  it  ?  I  would  ask  my 
hon.  friend  from  Brome — and  I  regret  ex- 
tremely that  he  is  not  in  his  place — why  did 
he  not,  in  1862,  speak  of  concessions  to 
Upper  Canada,  instead  of,  by  vote  and  by 
argument,  do  his  best  to  convince  us  that 
we  could  expect  no  relief  from  him 
and  from  those  acting  with  him,  from 
the  same  section.  Very  different  language 
is  now  used  by  Lower  Canada  members  of 
all  shades  of  opinion,  to  that  we  have  been 
accustomed  to  hear.  Those  who  now  admit 
the  justice  of  the  demands  of  Upper  Canada, 
and  yet  in  time  past  have  resisted  them, 
ought  to  be  the  last  to  oppose  this  scheme, 
which  settles  the  difficulty  on  a  basis  accepted 
by  all.  The  honorable  member  for  Broiue 
and  the  British  members  from  Lower  Canada, 
who  resisted  the  reform  asked  for,  ought  to 
be  foremost  in  supporting  the  scheme  before 
us;  and  I  am  sorry  to  find  that  my  hon. 
friend  appears  to  me  to  occupy  a  very 
inconsistent  position.  Had  he  always 
advocated  parliamentary  reform,  he  might 
with  consistency  have  opposed  the  proposed 
union.  In  some  such  position,  and  even  in 
a  stronger  point  of  view,  do  the  French 
Liberal  members  appear  to  be.  They  were 
the  professed  allies  of  the  lleform  party  in 
Upper  Canada,  and  were,  of  course,  aware 
that  no  reform  government  could  stand  that 
did  not  deal  with  the  representation  question. 
Now,  it  appears  to  me,  sir,  that  the  J^iberal 
French  party  have  been  singularly  untrue 
to  their  Upper  Canada  allies 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  (ironically)— Hear : 
hear ! 

Col.HAULTAIX— I  repeat,  sir,  that  the 
Liberal  French  members  have  puiaued  a 
course  that  if  continued  in,  could  only  have 
terminated  as  it  has  done.  I  speak  of  what 
has  eouie  under  my  own  observation  since 
1862.  A  new  Parliament  had  been  convened. 
The  question  of  representative  relorm  had 
attained  great  prominence.  The  Reform 
party  had  spoken  distinctly  on  that  question. 
Had  their  Lower  Canada  allies  contemplated 
a  continuance  of  the  alliance,  we  might 
suppose  that  they  would  have  forborne 
raising  unnecessary  difficulties.  Jint,  sir, 
what  was  the  course  pursued  't  it  will  be 
remembered  that  an  amendment  to  the  ad- 
dress was  moved,  asserting  that  tho  principle 
of  equal  representation  was  essential  to  the 

thouu;h  most 


unien. 


This  was  a  gratuitous 


significant  expression  of  the  divergence  that 
was  inevitable.     This  was  made  more  palpa- 


631 


bio    still,    when,    at   the    formation   of    the 
Macdonald-Sicoxte  Govern ment,  the  Re- 
form party  were  obliged  to  pay,  as  a  price 
for  their  alliance,  the  surrender  of  the  prin- 
ciple most  prominent  in  their  political  creed. 
An  alliance  based  upon  such  terms  could  not 
possibly    last.      And    what   must   we  think 
when   we  hear  hon.   gentlemen    intimating 
that  this  principle  might  now  be  conceded  ? 
Had  the  same  principles  been  then  enunciat- 
ed, had  a  bold,  straightforward  course  been 
adopted  by  the  Liberal  members  of  Lower 
Canada,  they  might  now  be  occupying  the  po- 
sition of  settling  our  very  serious  difficulties. 
I  have  alluded,  sir,  to  the   wishes   of  the 
3Iother  Country  relative  to  the   movement 
upon  which  we  have  entered,  and  I  assert 
that   the  feeling  there  is   one  of  universal 
approbation.     Still,  so  much  has  been  said 
relative    to    the    opinions    existing   iu    the 
Mother  Country  as  to  the  connection  with 
her    colonial    dependencies,    and    especially 
with  those  in  British  America,  that  I  think 
it  right  to  remark  on  this  branch  of  the  sub- 
ject rather  more   fully  than  I  should  other- 
wise have  done,  for  I  feel   the  great  impor- 
tance ol  it.     I  know  of  nothins;  that  would 
so  much  tend  to   discourage  the  people  of 
this  country  as  that  an  impression  should  go 
abroad  that  the  Mother  Country  was  intend- 
ihg  to  cast  us  adrift — to  sever  the  cocnection. 
I  have  no  doubt  myself,  sir,  that  did  such  an 
opinion  realiy  exist  in  the  31other  Country, 
and  were  it  to  be  carried  into  effect  at  the 
present   time,  or  within  any  short  period  of 
time,  the   only  alternative — I  fear,  the  only 
alternative — would  be  our  annexation  to  the 
United    States.     (Hear,  hear.)     Therefore, 
I  feel  it  to  be  ot  great  importance  that  no 
doubt  .<-.hould  exist  in  the  minds  of  the  people 
of  this  country  relative  to  the  feelings  enter- 
tained towards  us  at  homo.     My  hon.  friend 
the  member  for  Brome  dwelt  at  considerable 
length  on  the  subject.     He  expressed,  and  I 
am  quite  sure   he  entertains  the   strongest 
desire  for  the  perpetuation  of  this  connec- 
tion ;  yet  it  did  seem  to  me  that  he  dwelt 
with  peculiar  satisfaction  upon  every  word 
he   could  extract  from  speeches  and   pam- 
phlets, which  appeared  to  him  to  point  to  a 
desire  to  sever  ih\t  connection,  and  I  cannot 
butremca^bcr  ihat  he  was  frequently  cheered 
with  "  Hear,  hears  "  corresponding  with  the 
sentiments  he  expressed.     The  remarks  made 
by  the  hon.  member  from  Brome  were,  to  my 
mind,  most  extraordinary.     The  deductions 
he  drew  from  the  speeches  of  certain  noble- 


men and  gentlemen  in  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
rcent,   were    so    directly   opposite    to    what 
appeared  to  me  the  design  and  tendency  of 
those  speeches,  that  I  cannot  account  for  it 
in   any  other  way,  than   by  presuming  that 
my  hon.  friend  was  not  in  his  usual  health, 
and  that  his  mind  did  not  possess  that  degree 
of  clearness  which    he    generally   brings  to 
bear    on    every    subject     he     investigates. 
(Hear,    hear.)      It    seemed     to    me    that 
he     looked      at     everything      relating      to 
this  question  through  a  distorted  medium. 
I  listened  with  the  greatest  pleasure  to  the 
dissection  the  hon.  gentleman  made  of  these 
resolutions,  and  to  the   microscopic  analysis 
to  which  he  subjected  the   smallest  part  of 
their  provisions;     It  shewed  the  great  acute- 
ness  of  his  observation,  as  well  as  the   large 
and  extended  information  of  his  mind.     But 
I  could  not  help  feeling  that  he  was   looking 
at  this  subject  through  the   discoloured  lens 
of  a  powerfully  microscopic  mind.     (Laugh- 
ter.)    I  have  no   doubt  whatever  that  this 
also  was  the  impression  made   by  his  speech 
on    other    hon.    gentlemen.        His     talents 
and    his    ability    I    fully    recognize,    and 
I  have  no  doubt  that  every  hon.  gentleman 
listened,  equally  with   myself,  with  pleasure 
to  what  I  may*  call  the  excruciating  dissec- 
tion to  which  he  subu^tted  these  important 
resolutions.        (Hear,  hear,   and   laughter.) 
But  1  must  at  the  same  time  say  that  the 
result  of  all  his  analysis,  and  the  summing 
up  of  all  his  observations,  only  proved  to  me 
that  the  ground  on   which   the  advocates  of 
this  scheme  stand  is  well   nigh   immovable 
and  unassailable,  and   convinced   me  of  the 
smallness  of  the   objections  whioh  have  yet 
been  urged  against  it.     Of  course  my  hon. 
friend  from  Brome,  considering  the  tempera- 
ment of  his  mind,  dwelt  at  length  and  with 
much  force  upon    the   article    which   lately 
appeared  in  the  Ednihuryh  Recieic.     I  must 
acknowledge  that  in  that  article  there  are 
passages  of  extreme  offensiveness,  such  as  I 
regret  to  see  in  any  British  publication,  and 
which    were   uncalled  for    and    imprudent. 
If    I    thought     that   the    article    reflected 
the  views  of  either  of  the  parties  now  divid- 
ing the   political  world  in  Great  Britain,  I 
should  indeed  say  that  our  connection  with 
the  Mother  Country  was  precarious,  and  that 
it  behoved  us  to   ask   with  pertinacity  what 
really  was   the   intention  of   the  statesmen 
and  the  people  at  home  with  regard  to  us. 
But,  sir,  W3  have   happily  the  most  conclu- 
sive  evidence  that  could  be  afforded,  tha 


632 


hat  article  does  not  represent  the  views  of 
either  of  the  great  parties  in  the  British 
Parliament,     It  may  be   the  mind  of  a  few 
isolated  individuals ;  it  may  represent  what 
is  called  the  Manchester  School ;  and  I  am 
not  surprised  at  all  that  tliey  should  utter 
sentiments  of  that  character.     I  believe  that 
the   Manchester  School,  being  in  a  measure 
republican    in    their    political    tendencies, 
would  iiiot  be  sorry  to  see  us  joining  the 
great  republic   to   the  south,    and    that    it 
would  not  be  a  matter  for  much  sorrow  to 
them  to  see  us  forsaking  our  allegiance  to  the 
British    Crown,    and    joining  our  fortunes 
with  those  of  our  neighbors.     It  behoves  us 
to  see   if   there   are  not  some    grounds  of 
complaint — if    there    is    not    some    reason 
why  the   Manchester  School  should  wish  to 
get  rid  of  us.     It  has  been  well  observed  that 
the  remarks  made  upon  us  by  our  enemies 
are   generally    more    valuable    than    those 
emanating  froia  our  i'riends.      We    cannot 
very   well   afford  to    despise    the    opinions 
of  our   enemies,  and  we  would  do  well   to 
consider,  if    we    desire    to   perpetuate  the 
connection  with  the  Mother  Country,  whether 
we    cannot   consistently   with    our   interest 
and   honor  conciliate    every  party  in  Great 
Britain.      Believing   as  I    db  that    our  in- 
dependence   and    prosperity    depend    upon 
preserving  the  connection  with   the  Mother 
Country,    I   would    be    willing   to  remove 
every  just    cause  of  complaint  which  may 
be  iound  to  exist.      I  believe,  further,  that 
no  man   should   take  part    in    the   govern- 
ment of  these  provinces  who  is  not  alive  to 
the  importance  of  this  question.     And  what 
is  the  ground  of  complaint  made  by  those 
who   hold   loosely   the   connection    of    the 
colonics  with  the  Crown  ?     The  complaint 
is  that  they  are  taxed  with   our    defence, 
while  we  tax  the  industry  of  the   Mother 
Country,  and   go   directly  in  opposition  to 
the   policy    adopted    by   that   country ;  and 
surely  there  is  some   force  and  truth  in  this 
complaint.      There  is  no  doubt  that,  as  we 
are  growing  in  wealth  and  numbers,  these 
men  feel  it  as  an  oppression  that  they  should 
continue  to  be  taxed  as  heavily  in  order  to 
provide  means  for   our  defence,  and  especi- 
ally as,  in  times  past,  we  have  done  so  little 
ourselves  in  that  direction.      As  from  year 
to  year,  or    decade   to  decade,  we   grow   in 
numbers  and  wealth,   we  ought  to  consider, 
if  we  value  the  connection,  in  what  manner 
we   can  relieve   the  Mother  Country  of  the 
expenses  entailed  upon  her  for  our  defence. 


I  also  hold  that,  in   so  far  as  our  financial 
position  admits  of  it,   we   should   seek   to 
adapt  and  assimilate  our  financial  policy  to 
that  of  Great  Britain.     If  we  would  continue 
an  integral  part   of  that  country,  we  ought 
not  to   have  high    tariffs  intervening  as  so 
many  barriers  to  that  commercial  intercourse 
which  should   exist  between  the  two  coun- 
tries,   for    these    must    be    provocative    of 
soreness  and  dissatisfaction.     I  am,  however, 
well   aware    that   there   are    circumstances 
which,  at  the  present  time,  do  not  admit  of 
such  a  commercial  policy  with   the  Mother 
Country.     I  merely  say  we  ought  constantly 
to  keep  the  matter  in  view,  and  that  those 
who    desire    to    maintain     the    connection 
should  consider  it  their  duty  to  decrease  the 
tariff  as  much  as  it  can  be  done  with  justice 
to  our  own  position,   and  thus   reuiove  the 
great  cause  of  complaint  on  the  part  of  the 
people   at   home.     (Hear,    hear.)     I   have 
alluded,  sir,   to  the  Ediahurgh  Revieic  and 
to  the  extreme  offensiveness  of  eome  of  its 
passages  referring  to   the  colonies.     But  at 
the  same    time,    there    are    sentiments    en- 
unciated in   the   very    same  article,  which 
seem  to  me  to  contradict  the  drift  of  the 
article  itself.     As  we  have  heard  so  much 
of  this  article,  and  as  it  has  been  made  the 
ground  on  which    to  base  the  supposition 
that  there  is  a  iirowing  desire  in  Euiicland  to 
bring  to  an   end  her   connection    with   the 
colonies,  I  beg  to  call  the  attention  of  hon. 
gentlemen  to  this  suggestive  paragraph,  as 
I  find  it  in  (he  same  article  :  — 

The  people  of  England  have  no  desire  to  snap 
asunder  abruptly  the  slender  links  which  still 
unite  them  with  their  transatlantic  fellow-sub- 
jects, or  to  shorten  by  a  single  hour  the  duration 
ofthsir  common  eitizenshij).  On  the  contrary, 
by  strenghteuing  the  ties  which  still  remain,  they 
would  convert  into  a  dignilitd  alliance  an  uu- 
digniliod,  because  unreal,  subserviency. 

This  is  a  remarkable  passage  to  find  in  such 
an    article,   because,  as    I    said   before,  the 
whole  dritt  of  the  article  seems  to  imply  a 
desire  on   the  part  of  the  writer  to  see  ♦he 
connection  severed  ;  and  yet,  while  express- 
ing  this   sentiment,    he   says    there    is    no 
desire  to  shorten  by  a  single  hour  the  dur- 
ation   of  our  common   citizenship  !     Why, 
this  article  which  h:isb 'cn  made  so  much  of, 
which  has  been  dwelt  upon  so  forcibly,  and 
which  has  been  sent  forth  to  the  country  us 
indicative  of  the  future  jiolicy  of  England — 
I  say  this  very  article  has  strong  language 


ess 


manifesting  a  desire  for  the  maintenance  of 
the  connection. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— What  does 
the  concludinir  part  of  the  article  say  ? 

Col.  HAULTAIN  —  That  a  stronger 
alliance  is  desired. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  mean  the 
concluding  part  of  the  article  altogether. 

Col.  HA.ULTAIN— I  do  not  mean  to 
say  that  there  is  nothing  in  th?  latter  part 
which  contradicts  the  former.  But  the 
article  points  to  a  position  the  writer  would 
desire  to  see  us  occupy. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— A  position 
of  independence. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— Of  alliance,  not  inde- 
pendence. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— No  ;  the 
latt  r  part  of  the  article  expresses  the  satis- 
faction felt  by  the  writer  at  the  prospect  of 
our  becoming  independent. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— Ihave not thei?eyt>w 
by  mg,  and  it  may  be  as  my  honorable  friend 
says.     But  the  general  drift  of  the  article  is 
as  I  have  stated  it  to  be.     I  do  not  mean  to 
say  that  there  are  not  apparently  contradic- 
tory  sentiments    therein     expressed — senti- 
ments which  are  absolutely  and  altogether 
contradictory.     To  resume  my  argument,  it 
seems  to  me  that  if  v  e  evinced  a  desire  to 
remove    the    existing    causes  of   complaint, 
even  the  Manchester  School,  even  such  men 
as  GoLDWiN  Smith,  would  not  be  unwilling 
to  see  the  connection  between  these  provinces 
and    the    Mother    Country    continue.       My 
honorable  friend    the   member  for    Brome, 
not  only  alluded  to  this  article  in  the  Edin- 
burgh Review,  but  he   thouiiht  there  were 
speeches  uttered   by  certain  noblemen  and 
gentlemen  in   their    places   in    the    British 
Parliament,    from    which,    looking  at  them 
through  his  discolored  lens,  he  could  extract 
sentiments  of  a  similar  character.     Thehon. 
gentleman  would  admit  nothing  whatever  in 
favor  of  this  scheme,  and  seemed  determined 
that  Engknd,  whether  she  liked  it  or  not, 
should   cut  the    connection.       He  said  the 
Mother  Country  eulogised  the  scheme,  but — 
that  Jjord  Granville  approved,  but — that 
Lord  Derby  spoke  in  favor  of  the  connec- 
tion, but  — All  the  virtue  to  his  mind   was 
in  the  "buts."     Nothing  would  satisfy  him, 
and  nothing  would  satisfy  England  whatever 
was  done,  and  the  sooner  she  got  rid  of  us 
as  a  bad  bargain,  the  better  she  would  be 
pleased.     TLaughter.)     But  what  was  really 
the  tone  ot   the  speeches   from   which  the 
hon.  gentleman  quoted  ?     Lord  Houohton, 
81 


in  seconding  the  raoticn  for  the  Address  in 
the  House  of  Lords,  on  the  7th  of  February, 
said,  "  He  hoped  and  believed  that  these 
colonies  would  still  recognize  the  value  of 
the  British  connection,  and  that  their  amal- 
gamation would  render  them  more  safe, 
without  in  any  way  weakening  their  fealty. 
(Cheers.)"  What  language,  I  ask,  could 
more  clearly  express  the  feelings  of  the  person 
speaking  than  this,  and,  as  the  seconder  of 
the  Address,  the  desire  also  of  the  party 
connected  with  him,  that  "  our  fealty  to 
the  British  Crown  should  in  no  manner 
be  weakened."  And  yet  my  honorable 
friend  from  Brome  thought,  with  that 
discolored  view  he  took  of  it,  that  he 
detected  some  uncertainty — some  "but," 
(Laughter  )  Lord  Derby  was  even  more 
strong  and  emphatic  in  his  language  : — 

If  I  saw  in  this  Confederatioa  a  desire  to  separ 
rate  from  this  country,  I  should  consider  that  a 
matter  of  so  much  more  doubtful  policy;  but  I  see 
it  with  satisfaction — perhaps,  however,  it  is  too 
soon  to  discuss  resolutions  which  have  not  yet 
been  finally  adopted — but  I  hope  I  see,  in  the 
terms  of  this  proposed  Confederation,  an  earnest 
desire  to  retain  the  blessings  of  the  connection 
with  this  country— an  earnest  feelin?  of  loyalty, 
and  a  determined  and  deliberate  preference  for  a 
monarchical  form  of  government  over  republican 
institutions,  and  a  desire  to  maintain,  as  long  as 
it  can  be  maintained  psaceably — and  no  human 
being  can  wish  to  see  it  maintained  longer — the 
amicable  connection  which  at  present  exists  be- 
tween this  country  and  the  colonies.     (Cheers.) 

I  notice  that  on  both  occasions  when  Lord 
Derby  and  Lord  Houghton  expressed  these 
sentiments  of  attachment  to  the  colonies, 
cheers  were  given  in  the  House  of  Lords  ; 
and  yet  the  hon.  member  for  Brome,  laboring 
under  some  extraordinary  mental  hallucina- 
tion— (laughter) — thought  he  could  detect 
evidences  of  a  dr-sire  to  abandon  us  to  our 
fate — a  willingness  on  the  part  of  the  two 
great  parties  represented  in  the  House 
of  Lords  by  Earl  Granville  and  Earl 
Derby,  that  this  connection  should  cease  ! 
When  we  -jonsider  the  position  Lord  Derby 
occupies ;  when  we  consider  that  he  spoke 
from  his  seat  in  Parliament — and  we  all  know 
the  significance  attached  to  the  utterances 
of  even  the  men  of  least  note,  when  they 
speak  from  their  places  in  the  Legislature, 
how  their  words  will  be  noted  down  and 
become  a  matter  of  record  to  be  referred  to 
five  or  ten  years  hence  perhaps,  as  I  dare 
say  iias  more  than  once  been  found  to  be  the 
case  with    regard   to   honorable  gentlemen 


634. 


occupying  seats  on  the  floor  of  this  House — 
when  Lord  Derby,  I  say,  the  leader  of  the 
crreatPst  political  party  in  Great  Britain — 
and  I  do  not  hesitate  to  assert  that  it  stands 
to-day  the  most  numerous  party — gives 
utterance  in  the  strongest  terms  to  his  desire 
to  see  perpetuated  the  connection  with  the 
Mother  Country,  I  hope  we  see  iu  that  an 
evidence,  that  so  long  as  we  discharge  the 
duties  properly  devolving  upon  us,  England 
will  never  fail  us  in  our  hour  of  need. 
(Cheers.)     Lord  Granville  said  : — 

It  was  gratifying  to  see  the  good  feeling  which 
existed  between  this  country  and  the  North  Am- 
erican colonies,  which,  while  they  strove  to  carry 
out  their  own  wishes,  desired  to  continue  the 
connection  with  England. 

Why,  air,  if  my  hon.  friend  from  Brome 
(Mr.  Dunkin)  was  right,  Earl  Gran- 
ville, so  far  from  saying  that  he  desired  to 
see  this  connection  perpetuated,  should  have 
expressed  his  regret  that  we  were  desiring 
to  maintain  this  connection.  Notwithstand- 
ing the  strength  of  the  language  I  have 
quoted,  my  hoo  friend  from  Brome  was 
determined  to  see  in  it  some  dessire  in  the 
minds  of  these  noble  lords  that  the  connec- 
tion should  cease — some  desire  on  the  part 
of  the  people  of  Englan  .  that  they  should 
no  longer  hold^  as  appendages  of  the  British 
Crown,  th«.'se  valuable  Provinces  of  British 
America.  He  said  even,  with  reference  to 
the  language  of  Lord  Derby,  that  his  lord- 
ship '*  hoped"  and  "  trusted"  that  eo  and  so 
would  be  the  case — and  that  the  very  fact  of 
Lord  Def-by's  expressing  a  hope  that  we 
were  not  going  to  sever  the  connection,  was 
in  his  mind  tantamount  to  saying  that  a 
separation  was  inevitable.  (L-:!Ughter.) 
Wh:it  would  happen,  sir,  if  my  hon.  friend 
were  to  carry  out  these  extraordinary  views 
in  the  common  intercourse  of  life  ?  It  struck 
me,  while  he  was  speaking,  that  in  his  state 
of  mind,  there  might  be  danger  in  the  inter- 
change of  the  casual  civilities  of  social 
intercourse.  He  is  unfortunately  laboring 
under  a  severe  cold.  Suppose  1  were  to  meet 
him  to-morrow  morning,  and  in  the  exercise 
of  that  friendly  regard  that  I  cordially  feel 
for  my  hon.  friend,  I  were  to  express  a  hope 
that  his  malady  was  decreasing.  If  he  were 
to  interpret  my  "  hope"  in  the  same  strange 
manner  in  which  he  has  taken  the  ''  hope" 
of  Lord  Dei'.by  and  others,  ho  would  very 
likely  tell  me  that  he  wan  not  so  near  his 
dissolution  as  I  imagined,  and  that  ho  had 
no  intention  jat  of  orci^ring  hie  grave  to  be 


dug.  For  it  must  be  evident,  that  acting 
under  the  mental  delusion  that  has  charac- 
terized his  remarks  on  this  subject,  be  would 
interpret  my  "  hope"  that  he  was  better,  to 
a  persuasion  on  my  part  that  ho  had  but  a 
precarious  tenure  of  his  life.  (Hear,  hear, 
and  laughter.)  And  to  illustrate  farther 
how  incapable  his  mind  had  become  of  deal- 
ing impartially  and  correctly  with  the  im- 
portant subject  before  us,  I  would  call 
the  attention  of  the  House  to  the  fact 
that  when  Lord  Derby  expressed  "  a 
liope,"  he  was  not  speaking  at  all  of  the 
feeling  in  England,  but  he  was  speaking  of 
the  feeling  in  this  country.  He  said  he 
hoped  rce  should  continue  the  connection. 
But  when  he  spoke  of  the  feeling  in  the  old 
country,  he  did  not  even  use  the  word 
"  hope,"  but  spoke  positively  and  with  assu- 
rance, saying  :  "  I  am  sure  "  that  the  aid  of 
Great  Britain  will  never  fail  them  when  they 
require  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  have  had 
his  remarks  quoted  to  us  before,  but  I  make 
no  apology  at  all  for  extending  the  discussion 
upon  it,  for  I  feel  strongly  how  important  it 
is  that  this  country  should  understand  what 
the  feeling  in  England  is  with  regard  to  us. 
We  have  also  had  quoted  to  us  the  words 
used  in  Her  Majesty's  Speech,  at  the  time 
that  Columbia  was  formed  into  a  British 
province.     I  will  read  it  again  : — 

Her  Majesty  hopes  that  this  new  colony  on  the 
Pacific  may  be  but  one  step  in  the  career  of 
steady  progress  by  which  Her  Majesty's  dominions 
in  North  America  may  ultimately  be  peopled  in 
an  unbroken  chain  from  the  Atlantic  to  the  Paci- 
fic, by  a  loyal  and  industrious  population  of  sub- 
jects of  the  British  Crown. 

(Hear,  hear.)  These  utterances  from  high 
official  quarters,  which  are  generally  very 
reticent,  are  remarkable  for  their  force,  and 
for  the  unmistakable  language  iu  which  they 
are  couched.  Bat,  if  tliere  was  any  doubt 
as  to  the  feeling  which  existed  among  the 
leading  men  of  the  political  parties  of  tho 
Empire,  ought  not  that  doubt  to  be  removed  by 
the  visit  of  His  Royal  Highness  the  I^iunoe 
OF  Walks  to  this  country?  Was  that  a  inere 
sham,  a  n  akobelievo,  on  the  part  of  England 
and  the  English  Governnunt,  that  Her 
Majesty  desired  to  retain,  and  Her  Govern- 
ment aT)d  the  peoph'  of  l^^inglaad  desired  to 
retain,  the  allegianc:  and  the  homngoof  Her 
people  in  tho  west  ?  I  do  not  believe  it  for  a 
single  instant.  1  have  had  recalled  to  my  niiiui 
the  language  uae<l  by  the  Prince  of  Wales, 
which  I  remember  struck  me  Terj  forcibly 


635 


at  the  time.  It  occurred  in  his  address  to  the 
Canadian  regiment  in  the  year  1858,  or  the 
beginning  of  1859.  Atter  its  arrival  in  Eng- 
land, colors  were  presented  to  that  regiment 
by  H.R.  Highness.  It  was  his  first  public  act, 
after  he  had  been  appointed  to  a  commission 
in  the  British  army.  I  will  read  the  words 
which  fell  from  the  lips  of  His  Royal  High- 
ness on  that  occasion,  and  which  made  a  most 
gratifying  impression  on  my  mind,  having 
•pent,  as  a  British  officer,  previous  to  that 
time,  many  years  of  my  life  in  these  pro- 
vinces. His  Royal  Highness,  in  presenting 
the  colors  to  the  regiment,  used  these  words  : — 

The  ceremonial  on  which  we  are  now  engaged 
possesses  a  peculiar  significance  and  solemnity, 
because  in  confiding  to  you  for  the  first  time  this 
emblem  of  military  fidelity  and  valor,  I  not  only 
recognize  emphatically  your  enrollment  into  our 
national  force,  but  celebrate  an  act  which  pro- 
claims and  strengthens  the  unity  of  the  various 
parts  of  this  vast  empire  uuder  the  sway  of  our 
common  Sovereign. 

While  on  this  subject,  I  may  refer  to  one  or 
two  of  the  answers  which  His  Royal  High- 
ness made  to  the  various  addresses  presented 
to  him  in  passing  through  this  country.  One 
of  the  most  gratifying  to  my  own  mind,  and 
to  the  mind  of  every  man  who  desires  to  see 
our  connection  with  the  Mother  Country  per- 
petuated, is  his  answer  to  the  Address  from  the 
Legislative  Council,  in  which  he  said — "  Most 
heartily  do  I  respond  to  your  desire  that  the 
ties  which  bind  together  the  Sovereigm  and 
the  Canadian  people  may  be  strong  and  en- 
during." (Hear,  hear.)  But  it  is  not  neces- 
sary for  me  to  quote  further  from  the  answers 
made  by  His  Royal  Highness.  The  whole 
aspect  of  his  visit  to  this  country — the  utter- 
ances of  the  leaders  of  the  two  great  parties 
in  the  British  Empire — the  well-known  wishes 
of  our  Sovereign  and  of  the  Heir- Apparent  to 
the  Throne — all  these  intimate,  so  far  as  acts 
and  langTiage  can  intimate  anything  ,that  there 
is  still  an  unanimous  desire  on  the  part  of 
the  British  people  for  the  continuance  of 
the  connection  of  these  provinces  with  the 
British  Empire.  And  I  believe  it  rests 
with  us — altogether  rests  with  us — whether 
that  connection  shall  be  perpetuated.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  have  no  doubt  that  this  prevailing 
desire  for  the  perpetuation  of  the  connection 
is  one  main  ground  of  the  satisfaction  with 
which  the  people  of  England  view  our  move- 
ment towards  union.  They  are  well  aware 
— not  looking  at  it  from  the  view  of  our  sec- 
tional jealousies  and  party  conflicts,  but  look- 
ing at  it  from  a  broader  point  of  view — that 


our  union  must  tend  to  the  consolidation  of 
our  power  and  our  strength,  and  to  the  de- 
velopment of  our  resources.     I  see  no  abso- 
lute necessity  why,  as  we  grow  in  strength, 
we  should  think,  for  many  long  years  to  come, 
of    severing  the  connection;    but  as  we  in- 
crease in  wealth  and  in  numbers,  we  ought 
gradually,  in  the  time  of  peace,  to  relieve  the 
Mother  Country  of  the  expense  to  which  we 
now  put  her  for  our  defence.   (Hear,  hear.) 
Another  reason  why  we  should  earnestly  de- 
sire a   union  of   the  British    provinces,    in 
order  to   develops  our  nationality,  in  order 
that  we  should  become  better  acquainted,  in 
order  that  new  channels  of  commerce  should 
be  opened  up,  is  because  of  the  hostility  of 
the   United    States,  evidently  manifested  to 
this  country   during   the  past   few   months. 
What  has    been   the  policy    of   the   United 
States  towards   Canada  during    that   time  ? 
We  have  seen  adopted  the  passport  system — 
a  remnant  of  despotism  which  even   the  de- 
spotic  governments  of   the  old  world    have 
abolished.      We  have  seen  that  democratic 
people  embarrassing  and  restricting  the  inter- 
course  between  us;  they  have  given  notice 
of  the  terminiition  of  the  convention  limiting 
the  lake  naval  force ;  they  have,  I  believe, 
given  notice  of  the   abrogation  of  the  Reci- 
procity treaty ;  we  have  seen  the  committee 
of  ways  and  means  reporting  a  bill  for  put- 
ting the  frontier  defences  in  order,  and  re- 
commending the  expenditure  of  upwards  of 
a    million    of    dollars    on     those     defences. 
They  have  given  notice,  or  propose  to  give 
notice,  of  the  abrogation  of   the  Extradition 
treaty.     They  have  proposed  the  construction 
of  a  shin  canal  around  the  Niaajara  Falls  for 
gunboats    and  vessels  of  war.     This  is  the 
policy  of  the  United  States  towards  Canada. 
(Hear,    hear.)     And   it   makes   us   consider 
what   steps   they   will   take   next.     It   must 
make  every  man  consider  the  position  of  this 
country,  should  she  be  cut  off  from  a  commu- 
nication with  the  ocean  through  the  United 
States  by  the  bonding  system  being  suddenly 
terminated.     It  makes  us  feel  the  humiliating 
position  we  occupy,    that  our  very   national 
existence  at  the  present   time  is  in  a  great 
measure   dependent — most  humiliatingly  de- 
pendent— upon  a  foreign   and  an   unfriendly 
power.     (Hear,   hear.)     The   people   of  the 
United  States   have   recently   manifested  no 
good-will  towards  us,  and  the  steps  that  have 
been  taken  to  exhibit  their  ill-will  are  perhaps 
only  a  foretaste  of  what  we  may  expect  before 
long.     But  whether  they  take  extreme  meaa- 
ures  or  not    at  the  present   time,    does   our 


636 


present  position  offer  any  guarantee  for  inde- 
pendence, or  for  the  continuance  of  our  con- 
nection with  England  ?  Rtther,  do  not  the 
condition  of  this  continent  and  the  earnest 
advice  of  British  statesmen  call  aloud  upon  us 
to  be  prepared,  unless  we  intend  to  form  part 
and  parcel  of  the  great  republic?  I  can 
readily  understand  how  men  with  annexation 
tendencies,  and  who  are  inclined  towards 
republican  institutions,  would  rejoice  at  our 
present  position.  I  can  understand  how  men 
who  wish  to  see  the  whole  continent  converted 
into  one  great  republic,  are  pleased  at  difficul- 
ties being  created  between  the  Empire  and  the 
provinces.  But  those  who  entertain  different 
views  see  plainly  that  some  steps  must  be 
taken,  that  we  must  go  to  work  earnestly  to 
build  up  a  nationality  independent  of  the 
United  States,  though  not  in  hostility  to  it, 
to  counteract  the  tendency  so  evident  on  every 
hand  to  drive  us  into  their  arms.  We  know 
very  well  what  must  be  the  result  of  the  steps 
which  they  are  now  taking — unless  we  ourselves 
take  measures  in  another  direction — unless  we 
find  another  outlet  to  the  ocean — unless  we 
find  some  other  channels  for  our  trade  and 
commerce,  they  know  that  we  must  inevitably 
fall  into  their  arms.  That  is  another  reason 
why  I  wish  to  see  no  delay  iti  the  union  and 
in  the  amalgamation  of  the  British  provinces, 
in  order  that  we  may  at  once  consolidate  our- 
selves into  one  people,  and  at  once  endeavor  to 
abolish  those  barriers  which  now  exist  between 
us,  and  develope  the  feeling  that  we  have  com- 
mon interests,  and  that  we  are  dependent  the 
one  upon  the  other,  which  can  never  be  the 
case  so  long  as  division  walls  exist.  It  seems 
really  astonishing  to  my  mind  that  any  man 
who  really  desires  to  see  built  up  on  this  con- 
tinent a  nationality  independent  of  the  United 
States,  should  offer  any  opposition  to  the  pro- 
posal now  before  us.  (Hear,  hear.)  So 
much  has  been  said  with  regard  to  our 
financial  and  commercial  position  and  pros- 
pects, that  I  think  it  is  quite  unnecessary 
for  me  to  say  anything  further  on  the 
subject.  I  am  quite  sure  that  I  could  not  place 
the  matter  before  you  as  well  as  it  has  been 
submitted  by  those  who  have  preceded  me. 
But  it  is  natural  that  each  speaker  should 
dwell  upon  that  which  most  impresses  his  own 
mind.  I  am  persuaded  that  in  every  point  of 
view — in  view  of  our  dependence  upon,  and 
precarious  relations  with  the  United  States  , 
in  view  of  a  desired  union  with  the  British 
provinces  ;  in  view  of  our  connection  with  the 
Empirj — we  should  be  culpably  lacking  in  our 
duty,  did  we  any  longer  delay  to  seek  and  to 


create  new  channels  for  our  trade  and  com- 
merce. It  is  well  known  that  at  the  present 
time  our  productions  are  actually  passing 
through  the  hands  of  the  New  York  mer- 
chants before  they  reach  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces. These  merchants  are  deriving  all  the 
benefits  of  that  trade,  which,  with  all  our  dis- 
advantages, does  exist  to  a  considerable  ex- 
tent, and  is  evidently  capable  of  an  enormous 
extension.  It  is  only  necessary  to  lefer  to 
the  position  and  characteristics  of  the  different 
provinces,  to  see  at  once  how  exactl}'^  they 
supply  the  wants  and  deficiencies  of  each 
other.  Sufl^ice  it  to  say  that  we  are  agricul- 
tural and  manufacturing,  whilst  they  are,  and 
must  remain,  principally  a  maritime  popula- 
tion, requiring  for  consumption  that  with 
which  we  can  supply  them.  I  know  it  is  said 
that  these  channels  of  commercial  intercourse 
may  be  opened  up  without  union.  But  we 
need  to  feel  ourselves  to  be  one  people,  « ith 
identical  interests,  dependent  upon  each  other ; 
and  what  can  do  this  as  well  as  a  political 
union,  bringing  us  together  into  one  legisla- 
ture and  under  one  government  ?  Perhaps  it 
is  not  too  much  to  say  that  our  commercial 
interests  would  be  furthered  more  in  ten  years 
under  a  political  union,  than  it  would  be  in 
thirty  years  without  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  In 
connection  with  this  subject,  I  am  naturally 
reminded  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway.  Now, 
sir,  it  appears  to  me,  although  the  Interco- 
lonial Railway  has  been  dragged  into  this  ques- 
tion— although  the  expense  of  that  undertak- 
ing has  been  dwelt  upon  by  the  opponents  of 
this  scheme  as  if  it  were  part  of  the  scheme  and 
of  this  scheme  alone — 1  be'ieve  that  whatever 
the  event,  whether  there  be  a  Confederation 
of  the  provinces  or  not,  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way is  an  indispensable  necessity.  The  ex- 
pense of  that  railway  is,  therefore,  a  question 
altogether  apart  from  this  scheme,  and  can- 
not be  allowed  to  enter  into  the  arguments 
pro  or  con.  I  do  not  look  upon  the  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  at  the  present  time,  in  the 
light  of  a  profitable  commercial  undertaking, 
neither,  to  any  great  extent,  as  a  valuable 
military  undertaking.  (Opposition  cries  of 
"  Hear,hear.")  There  is  not  the  least  doubt  that 
when  we  are  not  actually  engaged  iu  hostil- 
ities, it  would  be  of  the  greatest  advantage  iu 
furnishing  us  with  an  outlet  at  all  seasons 
of  the  year.  Before  actual  hostilities,  as  in 
the  Trent  affair,  we  need  it  to  secure  our  iudo- 
pendence  of  the  United  States  in  bringing 
rapidly  troops  and  munitions  of  war  into  tlie 
provinces.  When  actually  at  war,  we  are 
awar«  that  railways  are  sasily   destroyed,  and 


637 


rendered  of  little  use,  unless  we  have  the 
means  of  protecting  them.  But  as  a  great 
social  and  political  engine,  it  seems  to  mc  ab- 
solutely necessary,  if  ever  we  are  to  have  a 
union  ;  and  if  a  union  does  not  come  to-day, 
but  is  looked  forward  to  ten  years  hence,  I 
still  hold  that  we  onghl  at  the  present  time, 
and  without  unnecessary  delay,  to  commence  its 
construction.  Union,  sir,  is  desirable,  because 
undoubtedly  it  will  add  to  our  means  of 
defence.  It  is  true  we  shall  not  have  any 
territory  added  to  us  which  will  increase  our 
strength  ;  neither  shall  we  add  to  the  number 
of  battalions  in  the  provinces  generally.  But 
it  does  not,  I  apprehend,  require  a  military 
man,  or  a  man  with  military  experience  or 
military  education,  to  be  aware  that  there  is 
no  combination  which  so  much  needs  one  head 
and  one  guiding  mind  as  the  management  of 
military  organizations,  and  the  guidance  of 
military  operations.  What,  I  ask,  would  be 
our  position  in  the  event  of  war,  should  there 
be  no  union  ?  We  have  at  present  five  dis- 
tinct provinces,  with  as  many  independent 
governments.  The  people  are  but  little  known 
the  one  to  the  other,  and  consequently  have 
but  the  slightest  possible  interest  in  each 
other.  In  the  event  of  war,  circumstances 
might  frequently  occur  where  concerted  action 
on  the  part  of  two  or  more  of  the  provinces 
might  be  required.  Immediate  cooperation 
might  be  essential  to  the  success  of  the  pro- 
posed project.  Should  we  not  have  the  most 
serious  difficultie-  thrown  in  the  way  of  the 
undertaking,  simply  from  the  fact  that  so 
many  independent  governments  must  be  con- 
sulted, each  jealous  of  its  own  ■  ights,  and  con- 
cerned only  about  its  own  safety.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Such  a  state  of  things  demands  a 
change,  were  there  no  other  argument  in 
favor  of  ic.  If  we  are  to  remain  independent 
of  the  United  States,  we  must  unite,  in  the 
most  effective  manner  possible,  our  available 
means  of  defence.  We  must  become  ac- 
quainted with  one  another,  and  do  all  we  can 
to  call  into  existence  a  feeling  of  oneness,  and 
of  interest  not  only  in  one  section  or  province, 
but  in  British  America  generally.  Canadians 
should  cease  to  think  that  they  are  interested 
alone  in  the  defence  of  Canada,  and  Nova 
Scotians  must  learn  to  look  beyond  the  limits 
of  Nova  Scotia.  If  we  are  to  offer  anything 
like  a  united  resistance,  we  must  have  a  com- 
mon interest  in  the  whole  country.  And  how 
can  we  so  surely  effect  this,  how  effect  it  at 
all,  without  union  ?  But  let  us  carry  out 
the  scheme  that  is  proposed  for  our  adop- 
tion,    and    in    course     of    time  we   shall 


all  learn  to  feel  interested  in  the  in- 
tegrity of  every  part  of  the  Confederation.  If 
we  are  united  we  shall  find  the  people  of  the 
Maritime  Provinces  admirably  suited  for  the 
work  required  to  be  done  on  the  lakes — the 
key  to  the  defence  of  Upper  Canada.  If, 
therefore,  we  can  be  united  as  one  people,  if 
we  are  brought  under  one  head  and  one  mind, 
we  shall  have  Nova  Scotians  assisting  in  our 
defence,  and  very  likely  we  shall  assist  in  the 
defence  of  Nova  Scotia.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
cannot  too  strongly  impress  on  the  minds  of 
those  who  hear  me  the  strong  convictions  of 
my  own  mind  with  reference  to  the  impor- 
tance of  immediate  and  thorough  union.  Our 
own  interests  demand  it,  the  interests  of  the 
Empire  require  it,  that  we  may  be  able  to  hold 
our  own  against  the  strong  and  energetic 
power  to  the  south  of  us.  For  these  import- 
ant objects  we  must  learn  to  throw  aside  all 
our  sectional  disputes,  and  to  place  ourselves 
in  the  hands  of  men  who  would  have  to  guide 
us  when  the  time  of  difficulty  may  arrive.  No 
one  more  earnestly  desires  the  continuance  of 
the  blessings  of  peace  ;  but  should  the  reverse 
come,  we  must  all  learn  to  obey  orders  with 
zeal  and  promptitude,  to  stand  in  readiness 
for  service  in  any  part  of  British  America 
where  our  presence  may  be  required.  This 
can  never  be  done  so  Ion?  as  Nova  Scotia  is 
building  up  a  nationality  for  herself,  and  New 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward Island  are  each  remaining  in  a  state  of 
isolation,  and  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  are 
far  removed  in  sentiment  and  feeling  from 
either.  So  long  as  this  is  the  case,  we  are 
diffusing  our  strength  and  are  weakening  our- 
selves. From  no  point  of  view  can  union  be 
more  strongly  urged  as  a  necessity  than  in 
the  case  of  our  defence.  The  defence  of  Can- 
ada, although  we  have  such  an  extended  fron- 
tier, is  not  so  difficult  as  might  at  first  sight 
appear.  There  a  few  prominent  points  which 
must  be  defended,  and  which  we  must  make 
up  our  minds  to  hold.  It  is  true  we  have  an 
extensive  frontier,  but  the  frontier  of  the 
United  States  is  not  the  less  so.  It  is  true 
also  that  we  have  many  towns  on  the  frontier, 
but  they  are  not  to  be  compared  to  the  wealth 
and  importance  of  those  of  the  United  States, 
and  therefore  we  are  not  placed  at  so  great  a 
disadvantage  in  that  respect.  There  are  cer- 
tain points  which  are  the  key  or  the  gates  to 
Canada,  and  which,  if  properly  defended,  we 
may  reasonably  hope  to  hold  the  country, 
without  fear  of  any  number  that  may  be 
brought  against  us,  and  it  is  of  the  first  im- 
portance that  the  people  of  Canada  should 


638 


awake  to  the  necessity  of  having  these  posts 
defended.  If  we  are  to  remain  independent, 
if  we  really  desire  a  nationality  apart  from 
that  of  the  United  States,  it  is  necessary  that 
we  should  think  of  these  things,  and  look  them 
fully  in  the  face — to  consider  it  well,  and  to 
see  the  absolute  necessity  of  coming  to  some 
arrangement  with  the  Imperial  Government 
as  to  the  proportion  we  are  mutually  to  bear. 
If  we  are  really  in  earnest  in  our  professed 
desire  to  maintain  our  independence,  I  be- 
lieve we  shall  be  willing  to  tax  ourselves  and 
submit  to  the  necessary  sacrifices.  The  very 
fact  that  there  is  an  uncertainty  existing  in 
the  minds  of  many  whether  Canada  will  con- 
sent to  be  taxed  for  her  defence,  is  one  of 
the  strongest  grounds,  to  my  mind,  why  we 
should  lose  no  time  in  completing  the  union 
of  the  British  American  Provinces.  I  feel 
that  so  long  as  Canada  is  separated  from  the 
rest  of  British  America,  so  long  will  she  be 
without  any  feeling  of  nationality.  She  can- 
not exist  here  alone.  We  need  to  feel  that 
there  is  a  nationality  on  this  continent  to 
which  we  are  attached ;  and  I  know  of  noth- 
ing more  likely  to  extend  our  ideas  and  views, 
so  as  to  embrace  the  whole  of  British  Ameri- 
ca, than  the  present  project.  We  are  likely 
to  view  a  country  such  as  the  Confederation 
would  include,  as  sonjething  worth  struggling 
for  and  dei'ending.  All  other  countries  of 
the  world  are  satisfied  to  tax  themselves  for 
their  defence,  and  we  find  countries  not  so 
numerous  in  population,  and  with  revenues 
and  commerce  inferior  to  ourselves,  maintain- 
ing comparatively  large  standing  armies.  And 
yet  whea  we  talk  of  our  defences — when  we 
speak  oi  the  taxation  which  will  be  necessary 
'in  order  to  erect  and  defend  these  works 
and  to  instruct  the  militia,  we  hear  doubts  ex- 
pressed, uncertainties  floating  about,  whether 
Canada  will  really  consent  to  bear  her 
share  of  it.  It  shows  to  me  that  there  is 
among  some  a  want  of  a  deep-seated  feeling 
of  nationality,  and  that  that  necessary  senti- 
ment has  yet  to  be  called  out  and  developed. 
Where  this  does  exist  the  people  do  not  hesi- 
tate to  make  any  sacrifice  necessary  for  the 
maintenance  of  their  independence.  Other 
countries  have  manifested  their  attachment 
to  their  nationality  and  their  flag  by  the 
sacrifice  of  almost  everything  they  possessed. 
Sometimes,  however,  it  is  urged  that  when 
the  time  arrives  Canada  will  show  to  the  world 
that  she  is  willing  to  spend  her  last  drop  of 
blood  in  defence  of  the  soil.  Tliis  is  a  very 
proper  sentiment,  and  snuiuis  exceedingly 
well,  b<  t  I  cannot  help  thinking  that  if  tliOH« 


who  give  expression  to  it  wish  to  shew  that 
it  can  stand  the  test  of  trial,  they  would  now 
urge  the  expenditure  necessary  to  give  effect 
to  it.  They  would  then  be  doing  some  real 
practical  good,  and  not  be  so  liable  to  be 
regarded  as  mere  sentimentalists.  The 
question  is  an  eminently  practical  one,  and 
the  sentiment  that  has  :io  practical  issue 
may  be  regarded  as  spurious  and  useless. 
We  may  bo  sure  of  this,  that  if  we  are  not 
willing  to  spend  the  money  that  is  necessary 
for  our  defence,  when  the  time  comes  there 
will  be  a  great  unwillingness  to  spend  the 
blood.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  ought  to  consider 
that  it  is  not  sufficient  that  we  should  be 
willing  to  spend  our  lives,  for  these  alone 
cannot  defend  us.  If  we  make  no  prepar- 
ation, what  will  the  destruction  of  life  avail 
us  ?  It  is  unreasonable  and  foolish  to  saj 
that  we  will  leave  everything  undone — the 
training  of  our  men,  and  the  strengthening 
of  our  positions — until  the  very  time  when 
our  only  chance  must  depend  upon  our 
having  trained  men  and  fortified  positions 
ready  to  our  hand.  It  would  be  as  reasonable 
for  a  man  to  say,  '•  I  will  learn  to  swim  when 
I  am  drowning."  Every  reasonable  man 
exposed  to  dro-vning  would  certainly  take 
every  means  to  learn  to  swim  beforehand,  so 
that  when  exposed  to  the  danger  he  would 
be  able  to  extricate  himslf  It  seems  to 
me  quite  as  reasonable  tor  us  to  say  that 
when  the  time  comes  we  will  spend  our 
lives  in  defence  of  the  country,  and  neglect 
all  precautionaiy  measures  beforehand.  I 
have  no  sympathy  with  such  a  sentiment,  and 
very  little  confidence  in  it.  I  should  like 
rather  to  see  a  little  practical  sense  manifested 
in  a  question  of  such  vital  importaiice.  I 
have  read  with  attention  the  report  uf  Cot. 
Jp'.RVOls,  who  was  sent  out  by  the  Imperial 
Government,  and,  I  presume,  most  other 
hon.  members  of  this  House  have  also  seen 
it.  That  officer  points  out  certain  places 
which  must  be  defended,  and  he  closes  his 
report  with  this  remark  :  "  'f  hat  uuless  these 
works  are  constructed,  it  is  worse  than  useless 
to  continue  any  British  force  in  Canada." 

Mr.  PIORR.VUJ.T— Hear  !  hear  ! 

Col.  HAULTAIN— The  hou.  gentleman 
says  "  Hear  !  hear  !"  Of  course,  sir,  I  can- 
not pronounce  absolutely  what  may  bo  pass- 
ing in  his  mind,  but  I  have  noticed  this — 
the  hon.  gentleman  will  know  whether  it 
justly  applies  to  himself  or  no — that  when 
the  expenses  of  our  defence  were  mentioned 
by  my  hon.  friuud  tU«  m«mber  from  North 


689 


Ontario  (Mr.  M.  C.  Cameron),  in  a  manner 
deprecating   the   expenditure,  there   was   a 
very  significant  "  Hear  !  hear  !"  intimating 
a   hearty  concurrence  in    such    sentiments. 
But,  sir,  when   my  hon.  friend  in   his  usual 
forcible   manner,  expressed   his  willingness, 
when    the    time   arrived,  to  spend  the  last 
drop  of  his  blood  in  the  defence  of  this  land, 
we  heard   no   more  of  the   responding  and 
concurring  "  Hear  !    hear  I"    I    alluded  to. 
(Laughter.)     My   hon.  friend,   if  I  under- 
stood him  rightly,  deprecated  the  idea  that 
any  expense  should  be  entailed  upon  us  for 
defensive    works.     But,  sir,  he    spoke    like 
a  true  Briton,  and  I  am  quite  sure  that  he 
was  in    earnest,  and  did    not   utter  a    mere 
barren    sentiment,  when    he    said    that    he 
would  spend  his   last  drop  of  blood   in  the 
defence  of  his  country.     And  I  am  sure  he 
would  do  so.     But  I  would  put  it  to  my  hon. 
friend  if  it  is  more  reasonable  that  he  should 
spend  this  blood,  or  spend   a  few  pounds  ? 
Who  can  tell  the  thousands,  ay,  the  hund- 
reds of  thousands  of  human  lives  that  may 
be  spared  by  the  judicious  and   timely  ex- 
penditure now  of  a  few  hundreds  of  thoussnds 
of  pounds  ?     I  wish  to  impress  upon  my  hon. 
friend  what  is  the  clear   conviction  of  my 
own  mind,  that  in  every  point  of  view  it  is 
economy — economy  of  treasure,  and  economy 
of  useful  lives,  to  spend  some  money  now  to 
place  our  country  in  a  state   of  defence.     I 
think  a  great  change  has  taken  place  within 
the  last  few  years  in  reference  lo  this  subject. 
The  ventilation  of  the    subject    has   drawn 
men's  minds  towards  it,  and  we  are  beginning 
to  feel   that  here   we  are  a  people  consid- 
erable in  numbers  and  considerable  in  wealth, 
and  it  is  incumbent  upon  us  to  do  more  than 
we  have  been  doing  in  times  past.     I  would 
call  attention  to  a  very  importani  work  which 
can  scarcely  be  overestimated.     I  allude  to 
the  Ottawa  canal.     I  regret  that  the  state  of 
our  finances  will  not  permit  us   to  think  of 
its  construction   at  the  present  time,  but  I 
refer  to  it  that  we  may   think   of  it ;  that 
the    representatives    of     the    people    may 
think    of   it;  that    the    statesmen    of   the 
country    may    think    of  it.      In    order    to 
secure  the  future  defence  of  the  country, 
and  especially    the    western    section    of    it, 
and    to    maintain    its     independence,    the 
Ottawa  canal    must   be   built.     The  Ottawa 
canal  would  be  worth  50,000    men   to    us. 
"With  that  canal,  and  the  aid  of  the  Mother 
Country,  which  we  are  assured  will  never  be 
wanting  when  we  require  it,  we  will  be  able 


to  maintain  and  hold  our  own  on  the 
lakes,  and  thus  make  our  own  territory 
secure,  and  threaten  our  opponents  at  many 
important  points.  At  the  present  time  we 
are  in  a  sad  condition  as  regards  oui-  canal 
communication,  looked  at  from  a  dciensible 
point  of  view.  Our  St.  Lawrence  canals  are 
almost  entirely  useless.  I  am  glad  to  sec 
that  the  American  Government  have  given 
notice  of  their  intention  to  terminate  the 
convention  for  not  keeping  armed  vessels  on 
the  lakes.  I  am  glad  to  see  that  this  is  to 
be  put  an  end  to,  for  it  was  decidedly  pi'eju- 
dicial  to  our  interests,  and  I  have  no  doubt  we 
shall  have  gunboats  on  our  lakes  beibre  the 
end  of  the  present  year.  Had  it  continued 
otherwise,  we  mighf  have  been  very  much 
at  the  mercy  of  the  United  States.  There  is 
no  question  that,  should  they  determine  upon 
going  to  war  with  us  before  the  opening  of 
navigation,  we  might  not  be  able  to  get  a 
British  gun-boat  on  our  waters  by  the  St. 
Lawrence  canals,  as  they  are  so  easily 
accessible  t<r'  our  opponents,  and,  without 
much  difficulty,  could  be  reudei-ed  useless  for 
navigation.  As  regards  the  Rideau  canal, 
how  are  we  to  get  gun-boats  through  it  ? 
There  is  a  certain  class  of  gun-boats  that 
might  pass  through  it. 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE  was  understood  to 
express  doubt  on  this  point. 

CoL.  HAULTAIN— Yes;  the  locks ^  of 
the  Rideau  canal  are,  I  believe,  1.50  feet 
long,  and  would  admit  a  certain  class  of  gun- 
boats. But,  as  my  hon.  friend  seems  to 
remark,  the  Rideau  canal  would,  neverthe- 
less, be  useless,  because  the  only  way  by 
which  we  can  reach  it  is  through  thi;  Grren- 
ville  canal,  and  the  locks  ot  the  Grenville 
canal  are  only  70  feet  long.  Therefore, 
we  should  be  entirely  at  the  mercy 
of  the  United  States,  because,  unless 
we  held  Lake  Ontario,  the  Upper  Pro- 
vince would  be  inevitably  gone,  Weil, 
sir,  it  appears  to  me  that  all  our  inter- 
ests— commercial,  political  and  defensive — 
and  the  peculiar  circumstances  in  which  we 
are  placed,  urgently  call  for  the  union  of 
the  British  Provinces.  The  reason;:  are  of 
that  force  and  the  interests  of  that  magni- 
tude, that  it  is  surprising  to  nie  that  any 
hon.  gentleman,  who  really  desir  s  that 
these  provinces  should  be  independent  of 
the  United  States,  should  hesitate  for  a 
single  moment  about  adopting  the  scheme, 
not  that  it  is  perfect,  but  because  h  is  the 
only  one  within  our  reach.     (Hear,  hear.) 


640 


I  have  now  to  make  a  few  remarks  on  the 
character  of  Her  Majesty's  loyal  Opposition. 
The  composition  of  that  Opposition  strikes 
me  as  somewhat  remarkable.    It  is  certainly 


heterogeneous.      The 


great 


difference    be- 


tween the  Opposition   and  the  Government 
seems  to   me   to   be   this,    that   while   the 
Government  are   anxious   to   build   up,   to 
consolidate,  to  strengthen,  the  only  object  of 
the  Opposition,  the  only  object  which  keeps 
them  together,  appears  to  be  to  pull  down, 
to  weaken,  to  divide.     (Hear,  hear.)     Many 
of  the   remarks  which   which   have   fallen 
from  the  various  membars  of  the  Opposition, 
they    might   have    made    with    equal   force 
against  each  other  as  against  the  Government. 
To  use  a  military  phrase,  they  seem  to  have 
been  firing  at  one  another,  but  as  it  is  only 
a  war  of  words  and  arguments,  they  may  still 
fire  away,  although  logically  hors  de.  combat. 
One  say?  it  is  necessary  we   should  have  a 
change.     Another  says  he  desires  no  change, 
but  wishes  us  to  remain  a3  we  are.     A  third  is 
against  Confederation,   because    he   thinks 
the  Federal  principle  is  one   which   in   all 
time  past  has  been   proved   to  be  weak  and 
powerless.     Another  mamber  of  the  Oppo- 
sition bases  his  hopes  of  the  world's  future 
on  the   principles  of  Federalism.     Another 
says  he  will  have  nothing  but  a  legislative 
union  ;  while,  I   believe,    there    are   not   a 
few  of  those  with  whom  he  acts  who  would 
threaten    fire    and     sword   if    a    legislative 
union  were  attempted  to  be  carried.     We 
have  surely  here  an   extraordinary  display 
of    anything    but   unanimity.     As    I    said 
before,  they  present  the  spectacle  of  a  most 
heterogeneous  company,  with  power  only  to 
destroy. 

Mr.  T.  C.  W\LLBRIDGE— What  sort 
of  a  spectacle  do  the  Government  present  in 
that  respect  ? 

Col.  HAULTAIN— The  members  ot  the 
Govern  anient  have  a  common  object  They  have 
come  together,  not  to  assail  on  3  another  with 
their  opposite  principles  and  views  and  opir- 
ions,  but  tliey  have  come  together  to  combine 
— they  have  come  together,  like  reasonable 
men,  for  the  accomplishment  of  a  great  com- 
mon object — and  they  have  considered  how 
best  they  can  n  eet  one  another's  views  by 
mutual  concession,  which  is  the  law  that 
binds  society  together,  without  which  society 
would  be  at  an  end.  They  have  united  in 
this  way  and  in  this  spirit  to  strengthen  the 
position  of  thfso  provinces,  and  the  position 
of  the  Empire  to  which  they  belong.    But  I 


do  not  hear  one  word  of  this,  with  regard  to 
the  hon.  members  forming  the  Opposition. 
I  do  not  hear  that  they  have  met  together, 
and  are   prepared  to  propose  to  the  country 
some  pcheme  that  will  be  better  than  the  one 
that  is   now  offered  for  our  adoption.     I  do 
not  hear  a  word  of  anything  of  the  kind,  and 
this    1    do   most  seriously   complain   of     I 
maintain  that  the  importance  of  this  matter 
is   such,  that  it  is  their   duty  not   to  avail 
themselves    of    what    is    ordinarily    called 
the  latitude  of  parliamentary  opposition. — 
The    circum.stances    of    this    country    are 
too    grave    for    us    to    trifle    with    such    a 
question.     If    we    present    to    the    House 
and  to  the  country  something  to   uieet  the 
difficulties  of  our  position,  then   I  say   that 
honorable  gentlemen  who  oppose  that  scheme 
are  wanting  in  their  duty  to  their  country, 
and   are   wanting  in   the   appreciation  they 
ought  to  have  of  those  difficulties,  if  they  do 
not  on   their  part  present  something  to  us, 
and  ask  us  to  accept  from  them  what  they 
suppose  better  than  is  offered  to  thorn  by  U3. 
I  cannot  but  express  my  ro^ret  at  the  course 
they   have  pursued      (Hear.)     I    will    now 
allude,  sir,  to  an  opposition  to  this  scheme, 
which   has   been    very   decidedly   expressed 
by    a    certain    section    of    the    Protestant 
minority    of   Lower  Canada.     I  am    aware, 
from   personal    intercourse  with   many  gen- 
tlemen   belonging    to    that   section    of    the 
community,    that     they    do     feel     a    very 
strong  aversion  to  this  scheme,  because,  as 
they  say,  it  will  place  them   at  the  mercy  of 
the    French-Canadians.       On    this    point   I 
desire  to  assure  my  honorable  friends  from 
Lower  Canada,  that  whilst  I  consider  that 
our  present  circumstances   require  us  all  to 
speak  openly  and  honestly  one  to  the  "ther, 
it  is  and  ;hall  be  my  earnest  desire  tu  speak 
with  all  kindliness  of  feeling  towards  them. 
I  foci  compelled  tu  s  ;y  that  there  is  no  part 
of  this  scheme  that  I  feel  more  doubt  about, 
than  the  effect  it  will  have  upon  the  educa- 
tion and  political  iuterest>^  of  the  Protestants 
of  Lower   Canada.     It  has   been   said   that 
there   is   and  always    has    been   a  spirit   of 
toleration  and  generosity  on  the  part  of  the 
Fre'ioh-Cariadians  towards  their   Protestant 
fellow-countrymen.     I  have  heard  It  said  that 
they  have   on   every   occasion   furthered    to 
the  utmost  of  their  ability,  and  in  the  fairest 
and    most    just    manner,    the    educational 
iiitercsts  of  the    Protestant   idinority.     But 
on  the  other  hand,  gentlemen  who  hive  paid 
a  great  deal  of  attention  to  the  subject,  have 


641 


also  said  that,  in  time  past,  although  there 
has  not  been  an  open  hostility  to  the  educa- 
tion or"  the  Protestant  minority,  there  has 
been  a  very  decided  under-hand  obstructive- 
ness.  This  is  stated  by  gentlemen  who  have 
taken  a  particular  interest  in  the  matter,  and 
who,  I  am  confident,  would  not  make  such 
a  statement  if  they  did  not  think  it  to 
be  the  case.  And  T  must  say,  for  my 
own  part,  that  I  do  think  the  Protestant 
minority  have  some  grounds  for  this  fear. 
And  this  is  my  reason  :  the  religious  faith 
of  the  majority  in  Lower  Canada  is,  as  we 
know,  Roman  Catholic,  and  they  receive 
from  the  head  of  the  Romish  Church  their 
inspiration ;  they  are  guided  by  the  prin- 
ciples that  are  laid  down,  and  that  are  Jftom 
time  to  time  publicly  promulgated  by  the 
head  of  that  Church.  Now,  I  do  not  think 
that  my  Roman  Catholic  fellow-countrymen 
can  be  surprised — and  I  would  ask  their 
attention  to  what  I  am  saying,  I  desire  to 
speak  honestly,  but,  of  course,  courteously — 
I  do  not  think  they  can  be  surprised  at  these 
suspicions  and  fears  of  their  Protestant 
brethren.  And  why  ?  Because  they  mast 
themselves  be  aware  what  are  the  principles 
of  the  Roman  Catholic  hierarchy. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN— What  are  they? 
CoL.  H  AULTAIN— They  are  not  tolerant. 
(Murmurs    of   disapprobation  from  various 
parts  of  the  House.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN — ^Are  Presbyterians 
more  tolerant  ?  The  hon,  gentleman  has 
stated  that  the  principles  of  the  Roman 
Catholic  hierarchy  are  not  tolerant.  Will 
he  explain  whether  he  means  that  they  are 
not  tolerant  with  regard  to  civil  liberty,  or 
with  regard  to  religious  liberty.  We  wish 
to  understand  precisely  what  the  honorable 
gentleman  means. 

Col.  H AULTAIN— And  that  is  precisely 
my  object.  I  believe  that  civil  and  religious 
liberty  are  so  bound  up  that  you  cannot 
separate  them. 

Hon.  Ma.  ALLEYN— You  believo  they 
are  intolerant  on  both  points  ? 

Ma.  ROBITAILLE—  It  is  not  well  to 
discuss  such  matters  here. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— I  think  I  have  only 
to  refer  to  the  letter  recently  issued  from 
Rome,  to  find  a  complete  and  absolute  answer 
to  the  question  which  the  hon.  member  for 
Quebec  has  put  to  me.  I  see  in  that  letter, 
which  is  invested  with  all  the  gravity  and 
authority  that  necessarily  surround  a  message 
from  the  head  of  the  Roman  Catholic  Church 

82 


' — I  see,  amongst  other 

there    stated  as  an 

*'  that    emigrants 

should  have  freedom  of  worship." 

hear.^     I    do    not 


things,  that   it  is 
error  to  be  condemned, 
to     Catholic     countries 
(Hear, 
think   there  can  be  any 
one   more    anxious    than    myself    to    avoid 
anything   like    religious  discussion    in    this 
House,   or  to  avoid  rousing   anything  like 
religious    animosity.       Rut    when     we    are 
discussing  a  scheme  of  the  greatest  import- 
ance, involving  the  interests  of  various  sec- 
tions of  the  community,  I  do  think  it  behoves 
every  man  to  speak  honestly.     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  have  said  that  the   Protestant  minority  in 
Lower  Canada  fear  lest  they  should  not  have 
full  justice  done  to  them.     They  know  the 
great   power  of  the    Romish    hierarchy    in 
Lower    Canada.       They    know   how    much 
everything  is  shaped  according  to  the  wishes 
of  that   body.     They  know  that  that  hier- 
archy receives    its   inspiration    from   Rome, 
and  within  the  last  few  weeks  we  find  what 
is  the  character  of  that   inspiration.     (Re- 
newed murmurs  of  disapprobation.)     Now  I 
ask  my  Roman  Catholic  friends  to  consider 
this  candidly.     When  there  comes  from  the 
Pope,   the   head   of    the   Roman    Catholic 
Church,  a  letter  clothed  with  all  the  autho- 
rity that  we  know  the    French    Canadians 
attribute  to  that  source,  and  when  we  have 
it   declared    here    that   it   is   an    error    to 
say   that   in   some   countries  called   Catho- 
lic,    emigrants      should     enjoy     the     free 
exercise    of    their     own    worship — (Hear ! 
hear !) — I    hear     some    of    my     honorable 
friends  say  "  Hear,  hear,"  in  rather  a  jeering 
tone.      But  I  ask   you  to   think   honestly 
about  it.     Suppose  it  were  possible  for  the 
Protestants  of  Canada  to  speak  in  a  manner 
similar  to  that   in  which   the  head  of  the 
Romish  Church  has  spoken,    and   that    we 
were  to  declare   it  to  be  a  principle  that 
should  guide  us,  that  we  ought  not  give  to 
those  who  difi'ered  from  us  the  freedom  of 
religious   worship,  would   not    the    Roman 
Catholics  in  Upper  Canada  have  good  reason 
to  be  alarmed  ?      Now,  I  ask  you  to  do  me 
the  justice,  my  hon.  friends,  to  think  of  it 
in  a  just  light,  and  not  in   the  light  of  an 
attack  upon  your  religion.      I  ask  you  to 
think  of  it  fairly,  especially  at  such  a  time 
as    this,   when    the    Protestants    of   Lower 
Canada  are  called  to  put  themselves  into  the 
power  of  the  Roman  Catholic  hierarchy;  for 
I  believe  it  is  simply  tantamount  to  that.     I 
ask  you  to  think  what  must  be  their  feelings 
when  they  read,  as  emanating  from  the  head 
and  ruler  of  the  Romish  hierarchy,  such  a 


642 


sentiment  as  that  contained  in  the  passage  I 
have  quoted. 

Hon.  Atty.  G^n.  CARTIER— Will  the 
hon.  gentleman  allow  me  to  say  a  word  ?  The 
Protestant  minority  of  Lower  Canada  have 
always  lived  in  harmony,  not  only  with  the 
Catholics,  but  with  the  Catholic  clergy  of 
Lower  Canada.  And  I  mny  s;iy  also,  on 
behalf  of  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada — 
the  majority  of  them  at  all  events — that  they 
are  so  convinced  that  there  is  true  liberality 
in  the  hierarchy,  in  the  Catholic  clergy  of 
Lower  Canada,  as  well  as  in  the  great 
majority  of  the  Roman  Catholics  of  Lower 
Canada,  that  they  have  no  such  fears  as  the 
hon.  gentleman  entertains.     (Hear,  hear.) 

CoL.  HAULTAIN~Of  course,  it  must 
be  perfectly  obvious,  that  in  a  matter  of  this 
kind,  what  emanates  from  my  hon.  friend 
the  Hou.  Attorney  General  East  will  have 
very  little  weight,  in  comparison  with  what 
emanates  from  the  head  of  the  Roman 
Catholic  Church.  Now,  I  do  not  accuse  my 
French-Canadian  fellow-subjects  of  anything 
like  intolerance.  But  what  I  say  is 
this,  that  there  is  ground  for  suspicion 
on  the  part  of  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada,  knowing  what  is  the  position  in 
which  they  will  be  placed,  with  regard  to 
the  Roman  Catholic  hierarchy,  when  they 
find  emanating  from  the  head,  the  very  in- 
spiration and  fount  of  that  hierarchy,  the 
intolerant  sentiments  I  have  alluded  to. 
Why  do  I  mention  this?  Is  it  with  the 
view  of  raising  any  difficulty  about  the 
scheme  now  before  us?  Quite  the  reverse. 
I  speak  in  time — I  speak  to  assure  my  co- 
religionists in  Lower  Canada — to  elicit  the 
declaration  of  tolerant  and  generous  senti- 
ments on  the  part  of  Roman  Catholic  mem- 
bers ;  I  speak  in  earnest  warning  now,  that 
there  may  be  no  necessity  for  it  hereafter. 
1  need  scarcely  declare  what  are  my  own 
sentiments — those  of  every  British  Protest- 
ant; we  grant  cheerfully  to  our  Roman 
Catholic  fellow-countryuien  that  which  we 
also  demand,  the  freest  liberty  of  conscience, 
the  freest  exorcise  of  every  political  right. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDOxVALD— The  Hon. 
Attorney  General  East  rose  and  spoke  ibi* 
the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada.  .N.y  hon. 
friend  from  Peterborough  (Col.  Haultain) 
also  speaks  for  thorn.  How  shall  we  decide 
between  the  two  '/ 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — The  hon.  gentleman 
from  Cornwall  is  like  the  blank  leaf  between 
the   Old   and  New   Testaments,   belonging 


neither  to  the  one  nor  to  the  other.     (Laugh- 
ter.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  really 
think  this  is  a  very  iiiiportaut  matter.  The 
hon.  member  for  Peterborough  speaks  for 
the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada,  and  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  East  also  nays  he 
speaks  the  feelings  of  the  same  class.  What 
shall  we  say  between  them  ? 

Hon.  Atpy.  Gen.  CARTIER— 1  can  say 
this.  I  have  seen,  as  the  hon.  meaibcr  is 
aware,  a  considerable  amount  of  political  life, 
and  during  all  tl.at  time  I  have  always  stood 
by  the  cause,  when  it  was  attacked,  of  the 
Catholic  hierarchy  of  liOwer  Canada  ;  but  at 
the  same  time  I  have  always  stood  up  on 
behalf  of  the  rights  of  the  Protestant  minor- 
ity, and  it  has  been  my  lot  always  to  have 
the  confidence  of  that  body. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Not  as  a 
body. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN — I  propose  that  this 
part  of  the  discussion  be  postponed  till 
Sunday.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— And  sing 
the  doxology  before  we  begin. 

Col.  HxVULTAIN— I  think,  sir,  this  is 
a  matter  too  serious  to  be  made  tho  occasion 
of  unmeaning  jokes.  I  speak  what  I  know 
when  I  say  there  is  a  i'eeling  of  distrust  on 
the  part  of  a  great  many  of  the  Protestants 
of  Lower  Canada.  And  I  speak  what  I 
know,  when  I  say  that  what  I  have  quoted 
as  emanating  from  the  head  of  the  Roman 
Catholic  Church,  has  tended  to  increase  that 
distrust.  It  must  be  evident,  that  if  we  are 
in  the  future  to  progress  amicably  and  well, 
it  is  better  we  should  speak  houestly  before 
we  enter  into  this  compact,  and  that  wo 
should  all  strive  to  guard  against  any  system 
being  carried  out,  or  any  course  pursued, 
that  would  tend  to  create  difficulties  in  the 
future.  What  do  my  hon.  friends  from 
Lower  Canada  say  with  regard  to  what  I 
have  quoted  ?  One  hon.  gentleman  rises 
with  a  jeer  about  deferring  this  discussion  till 
Sunday.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  should  like  to^ 
know  what  tho  hon.  gentleman  thinks  of 
the  passage  I  have  read.  1>ols  ho  agreo 
with  it '{ 

Hon.  Mr.  AILKYN— Upon  my  word,  I 
have  not  road  the  whole  letter. 

Col.    HAULTIN— Does   he   agree  with 
the  portion  1  have  road  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  AJjLEYN — I  am  in  favor  of 
liberty  of  conscience  to  the  fullest,  extent. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— 1  think,  in  justice  to 
themselves,  hon.   gentlemen   of  tho  Roman 


64.3 


Catholic  faith  should  make  themselves  ac- 
quainted with  what  has  emanated  from  Rome. 
I  feel  there  is  ground  for  the  remarks  I  have 
made,  and  that  I  would  have  been  failing  in 
my  duty  to  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada, 
had  I  not  made  them — had  I  not  stated  on 
their  behalf  the  grounds  of  their  fears  for 
the  future.  I  hope  hon.  gentlemen  will 
make  themselves  acquainted  with  what  I 
have  alluded  to.  I  do  not  know  whether 
the  Ions;  list  of  errors  was  read  out  in  the 
Roman  Catholic  churches,  but  I  do  know 
that  the  Encyclical  letter  which  accompanied 
it  was  communicated  to  those  who  attend 
church.  I  do  not  know  whether  my  hon. 
friend  is  in  the  habit  of  going  to  church. 
Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN— Oh  !  yes. 
Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  would  like 
to  know  how  my  hon.  friend  from  Peterbo- 
rough will  satisfy  those  for  whom  he  speaks, 
if  he  votes  for  this  Confederation  scheme. 

Col.  HAULTATN— I  have  sufficient  con- 
fidence that  my  honorable  friend  the  Attor- 
ney General  East  would  oppose  anything 
like  an  oppression  of  the  Protestant  popula- 
tion of  Lower  Canada.  I  am  quite  satisfied 
he  will  faithfully  carry  out  the  assurances 
he  has  given  from  his  seat  in  Parliament 
with  reference  to  the  amendments  to  the 
Educatiou  Act  of  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C  ARTIER— And  I  may 
say  that  my  fulfilment  of  those  pledges  will  be 
easily  performed,  because  it  has  never  enter- 
ed the  minds  of  the  Catholic  clergy  in  Lower 
Canada,  or  of  the  majority  of  the  Catholics 
of  Lower  Canada,  to  oppress  their  fellow- 
subjects   the  Protestants.     (Hear,  hear.) 

.Mr.  J.  DUFRESNE— What  happened 
before  the   union  should  be  proof  of  that. 

Col.  HATILTAIN— Well,  after  all  that 
has  been  said  to  me,  I  ask  honorable  gentle- 
men of  the  Roman  Catholic  persuasion  to 
look  at  what  the  head-  of  their  Church  has 
written  and  published  to  the  world,  and  then 
to  say  either  the  one  thing  or  the  other — 
either  that  they  have  no  confidence  in  what 
the  head  of  their  Church  says,  or  that  they 
have  confidence  in  it^  and  will  act  accord- 
ingly. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — I  hope  the  honorable 
gentleman  will  be  found  willing  to  extend 
to  the  Roman  Catholic  minority  of  Upper 
Canada  the  same  privileges  which  we  are 
ready  to  extend  to  the  Protestant  minority 
of  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— The  hon- 
orable member  for  Peterborough  admits  that 
the  intentions  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 


East  are  sincere,  and  says  he  relies  on  them. 
But,  on  the  other  hand,  he  reads  to  this 
House  an  edict  which  supersedes  any  prom- 
ises which  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  can 
make.  That  is  the  difficulty  in  which  the 
honorable  gentleman  is  placed. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  recom- 
mend the  honorable  member  for  Cornwall  to 
read  the  Encyclical  letter. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— i  have  read 
every  word  of  it. 

Mr.  BELLEROSE— Then  you  didn't 
understand  it. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— All  I  wished 
to  say  was,  that  I  think  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Peterborough  has  put  the  case  very 
fairly. 

Col.   HAULTAIN— Whether  I   put   it 
fairly  or  not,  or  whether  honorable  gentle- 
men approve  of  what  I  have  said  or   not, 
matters  not  in  the  least  to  me.      I  have 
simply  discharged  what  I  conceived  a  duty 
to  my  fellow-religionists  in  Lower  Canada.    I 
bring  to  the  knowledge  of  honorable  gentle- 
men of  the  Roman  Catholic  persuasion  what 
many  of  them  seem  to  have  been  ignorant  of. 
And  it  is  all  nonsense  to  endeavor  to  ignore 
the  fact  that  I  have  brought  before  them. 
We  know  that  in  some  Roman  Catholic  coun- 
tries absolute  intolerance  prevails.     In  Spain, 
for  instance,  not  a  Protestant  church  is  al- 
lowed  to   be  erected  throughout  the  whole 
length  and  breadth  of  that  country.     It  is  of 
no  use,  therefore,  for  honorable  gentlemen  to 
jeer  at  what  I  say  ;   and  when  an  edict  of  in- 
tolerance is  again  promulgated  and  sent  out 
to  the  world,  emanating  from  the  very  head 
of  the  Romish  Church,  is  it  surprising,  when 
the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada   are  in  a 
small  minority,  and  know  that  they  will  be  at 
the  mercy  of  the  hierarchy  entertaining  those 
views,  that  they  should  feel  some  reluctance 
to  be  left  in  that  position.     I  know  this  very 
well,  that  the  generality  of  Roman  Catholics 
in   this  country  would  avow,   as  they  have 
done,  their  opposition  to  the  sentiment  I  have 
quoted.     I  call  upon  them  practically  to  dis- 
avow it,  and  I  have  confidence  that  they  will 
do  so.     Whether  they  like  the  dilemma  in 
which  they  are  placed,  or  not,  is  another  mat- 
ter.   (Hear,  hear.)    Composed,  as  our  society 
is,  of  those  different  elements,  when  we  have 
to  discuss  matters  similar  to  that  before  us, 
when  we  have  to   adopt  a  scheme  involving 
the  interests  of  minorities  and  sections,  it  is 
right  that  we  should  do  so  frankly  and  hon- 
estly one  to  the  other,  and  face  to  face.  ^  I 
have  spoken  with  every  desire'  to  avoid  being 


644 


offensive,  uncourteous  and  unkind,  and  I  have 
done  it.  I  trust,  in  a  manner  befitting  the  oc- 
casion and  my  own  character. 

Mr.  DKNIS — Will  the  honorable  member 
allow  me  to  put  to  him  a  question  ?  Since  the 
honorable  member  has  referred  to  this  letter 
from  the  head  of  the  Church,  does  he  enter- 
tain the  opinion  that  any  honorable  member 
has  a  riglit  to  come  here  and  criticise  in  a 
similar  way  the  mode  of  procedure  of  Protest- 
ant clergymen  ?  If  so,  how  are  we  to  get 
along  at  all  ?  The  honorable  member  may 
have  his  own  opinions  in  regard  to  this  letter, 
but  lie  ought  not  to  state  them  on  the  floor  of 
the  House,  for  if  he  does  so  any  other  honor- 
able member  has  the  riglit  to  come  here  and 
critise  the  conduct  of  respectable  clergymen 
of  the  Free  Church,  of  the  Episcopal  Church, 
or  of  any  other  Protestant  Church,  and  make 
such  comments  as  he  thinks  fit.  This  ought 
not  to  be.  Then,  the  honorable  member  said 
the  letter  ought  to  be  looked  upon  with  sus- 
picion. Well,  all  I  can  say  is,  that  if  we  go 
into  a  chapter  on  suspicions,  every  man  ought 
to  be  suspicious.  We  might  bring  suspicions 
to  bear  upon  everything,  however  respectable 
it  may  be,  and  in  this  way  it  would  be  impos- 
sible with  frankness  to  deal  with  anything. 
My  hon.  friend  uses  the  word  "  hierarchy." 
Well,  a  word  even  docs  damage  sometimes. 
My  honorable  friend  may  have  his  opinion 
upon  these  things,  and  that  opinion  ought  to 
be  respected,  because  I  believe  it  to  be  an 
honest  opinion  ;  but  if  he  has  a  right  to  speak 
of  "  Romish"  and  all  that  sort  of  thing  in 
connection  with  our  Church,  we  will  have  a 
right  to  speak  in  a  disrespectful  manner  of 
ministers  of  the  Free  Church,  of  the  High 
Church,  of  the  Low  Church,  and  of  all  the 
other  kinds  of  churches,  and  bad  feeling  will 
be  created  to  no  purpose. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— Mr.  Speaker,  when- 
ever any  one  who  has  the  right  or  authority 
to  speak  for  Protestants  enunciates  such  a 
doctrine  as  that  which  has  emanated  from  the 
Pope  of  Rome,  I  am  quite  willing  it  should 
be  thrown  in  my  teeth  on  the  floor  of  this 
House.  I  will  tell  my  honorable  friend  who  has 
just  addressed  mc,  what  he  ought  to  have  been 
aware  of,  that  there  is  no  analogy  whatever — 
no  similarity  whatever — between  the  Pope  of 
the  Cburch  of  Rome  and  any  minister  of  any 
other  body  of  Christians.  I  would  dismiss 
this  subject,  sir,  by  simply  stating  that  I  have 
used  terms  ordinarily  employed,  and  have 
been  anxious  to  do  so  in  no  oft"en,«ive  manner. 
Some  of  the  reasons  given  for  the  opposition 
which  has  been  offered  to  the  scheme  now 


before  the  House  are,  that  it  is  not  perfect, 
and  that  it  embraces  principles  which  would 
endanger  the  working  of  the  projected  Con- 
stitution. Now,  of  course,  sir,  the  schema  in 
one  sense  is  not  perfect. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear,  hear. 

Col.  HAULTAIN  — Any  Constitution 
drawn  up  to  meet  the  circumstances  under 
which  the  five,  I  may  say  the  six,  provinces 
were  situated  must  necessarily  present  appa- 
rent inconsistencies.  Concessions  and  mutual 
compromise  must  inevitably  be  consented  to 
if  we  are  to  have  union  at  all.  It  does  not 
manifest  any  extraordinary  degree  of  acute- 
ness  in  order  to  be  able  to  discover  the  possi- 
ble difiiculties  that  may  arise  from  it.  Hon- 
oralile  gentlemen  who  have  spoken  against  it 
have  magnified  the  dangers  of  collision,  and 
especially  has  the  honorable  member  for 
Brome  done  so.  I  am  of  opinion,  sir,  that  if 
the  same  rigid  and  hostile  analysis  were  made 
of  any  form  of  government,  or  of  any  consti- 
tution, monarchical  or  republican,  originated 
for  oniting  separate  and  distinct  peoples  to- 
gether, it  would  not  be  difficult  to  foresee 
dangers  of  collision  as  likely  to  flow  therefrom. 
AVere  the  British  Constitution  itself  subjected 
to  the  same  kind  of  dissection,  flaws  and  com- 
promises might  be  detected,  and  possible  dan- 
gers be  foretold.  In  the  Constitution  pro- 
posed for  our  adoption,  as  with  all  others,  the 
successful  working  of  it  mu.st  mainly  depend 
upon  the  characters  and  principles  of  the  men 
who  have  to  work  it.  The  honorable  member 
for  Brome  certainly  attempted  to  make  the 
worst  of  the.se  resolutions,  and  endeavored  to 
point  out,  in  almost  every  feature,  defects 
which  he  thought  might  endanger  the  int-ercsts 
of  the  people.  He  dwelt  particularly  upon 
the  apparent  facilities  for  the  development  of 
what  is  called  in  this  country  ''log-rolling." 
He  said  we  might  find  the  Maritime  Provinces 
working  with  each  other,  and  with  Lower 
Canada  against  Upper  Canada,  and  vice  versa. 
Well,  it  must  be  obvious,  sir,  that  the  honor- 
able gentleman's  objections  in  this  respect 
applied  with  as  much  force  to  a  Legislative 
union  as  to  a  Federal  union,  and  yet  my  hon- 
orable friend  is  liimself  in  favor  of  a  legisla- 
tive union. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  must  set  my  hon. 
friend  right.  JNIy  honorable  iViend  from 
Brome — who  is  now  absent — said  ho  was  op- 
posed to  any  other  union  than  that  at  present 
existing  b-tween  the  provinces  ;  and  his  whole 
argument  went  to  .show  that  he  was  opposed  to 
any  other  tie  than  that  now  existing. 

Hon.   Mr.    McGKE— If   the    honorable 


645 


gentleman  will  permit  me,  I  may  sny  that  I 
followed  the  honorable  member  I'or  Bi-ome 
very  closely,  and  that  according  to  my  under- 
standing he  expressed  himself  in  favor  of  Fed- 
eration, but  without  a  union  such  as  that  now 
proposed.  His  argument  was  that  we  should 
federate  with  the  Imperial  Government,  and 
that  there  should  be  a  Council  in  London. 

Hon.  Mr.  IIOLTON— That  was  another 
point. 

Hon.  Mr.  MgGEE — No,  it  was  this  point : 
His  proposal  was — and  he  is  the  only  member 
on  the  other  side  who  has  ventured  to  put 
forth  a  counter-proposition  to  that  now  before 
the  House — that  we  should  have  a  Council 
similar  to  that  for  the  East  Indies.  I  intend 
to  reply  to  this  proposition  when  the  proper 
time  comes.  But  my  honorable  friend  from 
Peterborough  is  quite  riglit  in  what  he  h;is 
stated. 

Col.  HAUL  tain — I  am  of  opinion  that 
the  honorable  member  for  Brome,  if  he  did 
not  desire  it  at  the  present  time,  at  any  rate 
expressed  himself  iu  favor  of  union  at  some 
future  time. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON — A  legislative  union, 
if  a  union  at  all.  But  he  really  did  not  want 
any  other  than  that  now  existing. 

Col.    HAULTAIN— That    is     precisely 

that  the  very 
alluded  to  as 
used  against  a  Federal  union,  might  likewise 
be  urged  against  a  Legislative  union — that 
there  would  be  the  same  amount  of  ''  log- 
rolling "  in  the  latter  as  in  the  former. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— And  a  great  deal 
more. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— Certainly  as  much. 
I  think  my  honorable  friend  from  North 
Ontario  (Mr.  M.  C.  Cameron)  used  the 
same  argument,  and  yet  I  believe  he  is  in 
favor  of  a  legislative  union. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— 1  am. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— But  my  honorable 
friend  must  see  that  this  argument  against 
the  Federal  union  might  be  urged  with  equal 
cogency  against  any  union  at  all. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  may,  perhaps, 
be  allowed  to  say  that  my  position  is  just  this, 
that  a  legislative  union  would  be  preferable, 
because  the  people  would  enter  into  it  with 
the  design  of  working  for  the  harmony  and 
advantage  of  the  people ;  whereas,  if  a  Fed- 
eral union  were  entered  into,  the  local  interests 
of  each  province  would  predominate  over  the 
interests  of  the  whole. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— I  think  in  this  point 
of  view  the  argument  is  rather  in   favor  of  ' 


what   I  said,  and  I  maintain 
same  arguments  Avhich  I  have 


the    Federal    principle,    which   does  remove 
some  of  the  causes  of  the  difficulty,  in  so  far 
as  local  matters  are  removed  from  the  juris- 
diction of  the  General  Government,  and  are 
left  to  that  of  the  local  governments.      But 
looking  at  it  in  every  point  of  view ;  consider- 
ing the  greater  expense,  the  danger  of  colli- 
sion between  the  governments,  and  the  compa- 
rative division  of  sovereignty  under  the  Fed- 
eral system,   I  am  decidedly  in  favor  of  the 
closer  and  more  simple  form  of  government 
secured  by  a  legislative  union.     (Hear,  hear.) 
But  I  would  remark  to  those  who  oppose  the 
former  because  of  their  professed  desire  to  see 
the  adoption  of  the  latter,  that  in  attacking 
the  Federal  scheme  in  the  manner  alluded  to, 
they  are   only   putting   arguments   into   the 
mouths  of  those  who  are  opposed  to  any  union 
at  all.     They  should  also  take  into  considera- 
tion, that  it  is  admitted  on  all  sides  that  a 
legislative  union  is  unattainable,   and  there- 
fore,  practically,  we   need    not  now  discuss 
their  comparative  merits.      It  appears  ta  me 
but  a  useless  waste  of  time  to  advocate  a  cer- 
tain system  of  union  with  others,  and  to  make 
such  advocacy  the  ground  for  opposing  a  prac- 
ticable union,  when  those  with  whom  we  are 
to  unite,  and  wlio  are  free  to  make  their  own 
choice,  pronounce  against  it.      (Hear.)      We 
have  to  consult  the  wishes  of  six  independent 
provinces;  and  if  five  of  them  oppose  a  legis- 
lative union,  what  sense  or  justice  is  there  in 
making  our    preference  for  it  an   argument 
against  the  only  union  that  all  will  consent  to, 
unless  indeed  it  is  urged  that  no  union  is 
better  than  a  Federal  one.    In  again  referring 
to  the  remarks  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Brome,  I  feel  bound  to  say  that  I  listened 
with    great    pleasure     to    the    miscroseopic 
analysis  to  which  he  subjected  the  proposed 
scheme.     He  was,  however,  only  satisfied  with 
picturing  all  the  possible  dangers  to  which  we 
might  be  exposed  in  the  working  of  it.     He 
dwelt  with  a  certain   kind  of  satisfaction  on 
the  succession  of  knaves  and  fools  to  whom 
might  be  committed  our  future  destiny  under 
it;    the   possibility   that    its  very   adoption 
would  call  into  existence  a  race  of  public  men 
devoid  of  all  moral  worth  and  ordinary  in- 
telligence.    But,   sir,  I  wish  to  take  a  prac- 
tical,   common  sense  view  of  this    question, 
and  I  think  the  country  will  be  inclined  to  do 
the  same.     Were  a  similar  dissection  made  of 
the  provisions  or  institutions  regulating  human 
society  in  any  of  its  diversified  combinations, 
dangers  and  difficulties  might  be  magnified, 
and  all  patriotism,  virtue  and  justice  consigned 
to  the  grave  of  the  past ;  this  would  apply 


646 


equally  to  all  associations,  whether  of  a  com- 
mercial, political  or  national  character.  Ap- 
ply it  to  our  own  position  at  this  moment. 
We  meet  here  to  conduct  the  affairs  of  the 
country ;  the  forms  and  rules  laid  down  for 
our  guidance  are  the  result  of  the  wisdom 
and  experience  of  centuries,  and  yet  half  a 
dozen  unprincipled  men,  if  so  determined, 
might  obstruct  all  business  and  prevent  the 
working  of  our  system  of  government.  The 
only  practical  conclusion  I  can  draw  from 
such  an  analysis  would  be  to  abolish  all  gov- 
ernment and  abandon  all  association.  My 
honorable  friend  went  too  far ;  he  strengthened 
the  position  of  those  it  was  his  avowed  ob- 
ject to  assail.  It  was  obvious  to  my  own 
mind  that  every  day  experience,  under  approx- 
imately similar  circumstances,  swept  away  the 
array  of  dangers  and  disasters  he  conjured  up, 
and  happily  gave  us  hope  that  men  might 
arise  equal  to  the  occasion  that  in  the  future 
might  arise.  Our  own  political  difficulties 
may  be  pointed  to  as  the  opposite  to  this 
experience.  The  essential  difference  lies  in 
this.  Felt  injustice  creates  our  present  diffi- 
culties, whereas,  with  all  the  supposed  defects 
of  the  scheme  before  us,  palpable  injustice  to 
any  section  cannot  be  charged  against  it;  and 
in  our  dilemma  have  we  not  had  the  men 
equal  to  the  occasion  ?  If  we  have  men  at  the 
head  of  our  affairs,  desirous  of  acting  justly 
and  uprightly,  there  is  nothing  that  I  have 
heard  from  the  honorable  member  for  Brome, 
the  chief  opponent  of  the  measure,  to  create  ap- 
prehension for  tlic  future.  It  certainly  is  incum- 
bent upon  the  Opposition,  if  they  are  dissatis- 
fied with  this  scheme,  considering  all  the 
circumstances  of  our  position,  to  lay  before  the 
House  and  country  some  proposition  in  lieu 
of  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  —  What  do  you  say 
to  the  maintenance  of  the  xtatiis  quo  '• 

Col.  HAULTAIN— I  need  hardly  remind 
ray  honorable  friend,  who  is  now  one  of  the 
leaders  of  the  Opposition,  of  his  own  admis- 
sions that  it  is  neither  just  nor  possible  to 
remain  in  statu  quo.  He  has  before  said  that 
the  union,  as  at  present  constituted  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  could  not  continue. 
And  he  is  (juite  right.  We  cannot  remain  as 
wc  are.  So  said  al.so  my  honorable  friend  the 
member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  A.  A.  DoaiON), 
the  present  leader  of  the  Opposition.  He 
has  expressly  stated  that  some  change  was 
necessary.  So  far  we  arc  agreed.  A  new 
political  combination  has  been  accordingly 
devised,  and  the  advocates  of  it  say  to  the 


Opposition  that  if  they  do  not  like  the  scheme, 
then  they  are  bound  on  their  own  admission, 
as  patriotic  men,  to  submit  something  else. 
Then  only  will  they  have  a  sufficient  excuse 
for  rejecting  what  is  proposed  as  a  solution  of 
our  difficulties.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  only 
honorable  gentleman  who  has  offered  any- 
thing in  substitution  for  Federal  union  is  the 
honorable  member  for  Brome.  I  confess,  sir, 
that  it  was  with  surprise  and  something  akin 
to  disappointment,  that  I  heard  the  conclu- 
sion, the  summing  up,  of  my  honorable 
friend's  very  able  speech.  No  one  can  deny 
to  him  acuteness  of  intellect  and  great  analy- 
tic powers  of  mind,  and  it  was  without  doubt 
an  intellectual  repast  to  which  he  for  some 
hours  treated  us.  But,  sir,  what  a  waste  of 
mental  energy,  how  fruitless  his  intellectual 
toil !  What  has  his  country  profited  by  liis 
exertions  ?  Has  he  proposed  something 
worthy  the  elaborate  dissection  we  had  listened 
to  ?  Did  he  address  himself  to  the  difficul- 
ties in  which  his  country  is  placed,  and  pro- 
pound a  Constitution  harmonious  and  faultless? 
What  did  he,  sir,  propose  for  drawing  together 
these  isolated  fragments  of  the  British  Em- 
pire, consolidating  them  into  one,  and  tlicreby 
adding  to  their  future  strength  and  prosperity  ? 
To  meet  all  those  urgent  wants  and  diversified 
interests,  he  proposes  to  appoint  '•  a  Colonial 
Council  in  London,  something  like  the  Indian 
Council,  to  which  our  Ministers  from  the 
various  colonies  might  be  sent  to  consult  with 
Her  Majesty  on  affairs  concerning  those  prov- 
inces." (Hear,  hear.)  And  what  is  this 
Indian  Council  that  my  honorable  IViend 
would  prefer  to  the  broad  union  we  propose 
in  order  to  bring  those  provinces  together, 
which  have  been  too  long  separated  ?  What 
is  the  position  of  India, and  what  the  object  and 
composition  of  the  Council  of  India  V  That 
vast  country  is  a  conquered  appanage  of  the 
British  Crown.  It  is  govcrued  by  a  Governor 
in  Council,  who  acts  under  the  orders  of  the 
Secretary  of  State,  the  president  of  the 
Indian  Council  in  London.  The  revenue 
and  expenditure  of  the  Indian  Empire 
are  subjected  to  the  control  of  the  Secre- 
tary in  Council,  and  no  grant  of  such 
revenue  can  be  made  without  the  con- 
currence of  a  majority  of  the  Council.  Such, 
sir,  is  the  Council  that  my  honorable  friend 
proposed  for  our  consideration,  and  in  the 
adoption  of  which  "  we  would  be  taking  the 
best  means  of  developing  our  relations  in  a 
proper  connection  with  the  Mothir  Coun- 
try."    He  further  says  that   "in  the  present 


647 


sclieme  there  was  no  step  of  the  kind  con- 
templated." And  who,  sir,  in  his  sober 
senses  would  venture  to  propose  such  a  step  ? 
It  is  difficult  to  conceive  that  my  honorable 
friend  was  serious  when  recomniendinp;  it  for 
our  adoption.  A  more  crude  and  ill-digested 
scheme  (using  his  own  words)  could  scarcely 
have  emanated  from  his  mind.  What  had 
become  of  all  the  acuteness  and  microscopic 
power  he  brought  to  bear  upon  the  resolutions 
of  the  Quebec  Conference  ?  "A  Colonial 
Council  in  London,  something  like  the  Indian 
Council !''  Does  he  mean  that  we  ought  to 
have  a  Council  in  London  which  is  to  direct  us 
as  to  our  proceedings;  which  is  to  send  out 
governors  general  to  this  province  from  time 
to  time  to  dictate  the  course  of  our  legislation, 
and  instruct  us  in  regard,  to  the  expenditure 
of  our  money  ? — because  the  Indian  Council, 
under  the  presidency  of  a  Secretary  of  State, 
has  control  of  the  whole  expenditure  of  the 
means  of  the  East  India  Company,  and  the 
Governor  General  of  India  acts  under  their 
direct  supervision  and  command.  I  mention 
this  to  shew  what  position  the  opponents  of 
the  resolutions  now  before  us  are  in,  what 
they  are  reduced  to  in  order  to  provide  some- 
thing as  a  substitute  for  what  is  proposed  for 
their  acceptance. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Surely  my  honor- 
able friend  does  not  wish  to  misrepresent  the 
honorable  member  for  Bi'ome — to  say  that  he 
purposed  to  substitute  for  our  present  govern- 
mental machinery  a  council  similar  to  the 
Indian  Council.  My  honorable  friend  surely 
does  not  want  to  impute  to  the  honorable 
member  for  Brome,  in  his  absence,  such  an 
idea  as  that. 

Col.  HAULTAIN.— I  find  it  difficult  to 
impute  anything  at  all.  (Laughter.)  I  have 
given  his  own  words  and  their  legitimate 
meaning.  I  could  not  understand  what  was 
passing  in  my  honorable  friend's  mind,  which 
certainly  appears  to  have  been  in  a  most  ex- 
traordinary state.  (Renewed  laughter.)  From 
beginning  to  end  my  honorable  friend  seemed 
to  be  labourino-  under  some  hallucination. 
(Laugher.)  And  I  cannot  help  thinking  that 
my  honorable  friend  from  Chateauguay  (Hon. 
Mr.  Holton)  is  also  labouring  under  the 
same  hallucination.     (Laugher.) 

Hon.  Ma.  HOLTON— I  confess  I  cannot 
see  the  point  of  the  joke. 

Col.  HAULTAIN— In  making  these  re- 
marks  I  do  not  seriously  wish  to  impute  to 
the  honorable  member  for  Brome  a  desire  that 
we  should  put  ourselves  into  the  hands  of  a 
Secretary  of  State  and  a  council  at  home.     I 


do  not  suppose  that  his  mind  had  qirite  de- 
serted him.     But  applying  something  of  the 
same  kind  of  analysis  to  the  remarks  of  that 
honorable  member,   which  he  applied  to  the 
scheme  now  before  the  House,  it  would  be 
quite   legitimate   and  fair  to   conclude  that 
such  was  his  meaning.     I  do  not  think  my 
honorable  friend  from  Brome  or  the  Opposition 
have  any  reason  to  pride  themselves  on  the 
scheme  he  has  suggested   for  our  guidance. 
And  it  is  most  extraordinary  that  a  man  of 
his  acuteness  of  mind,  and  of  his  extended 
information,   should  so  far  forget  himself  as 
seriously  to  propose  for  our  acceptance,  in  his 
place  in  Parliament,  after  a  labored,  length- 
ened  and  able  analysis  of  these  resolutions, 
this  animalcule  which  he   announced  as  the 
result  of  his  protracted  incubation  of  eight 
hours'    duration.     (Laughter.)     I   am  sorry 
my  honorable  friend  is  not  here  to  listen  to 
what  I  have  thought  proper  to  reply.     I  need 
not  say  that  I  have  made  these  remarks  in  the 
most  friendly  spirit,  befitting  the  friendliness 
and  respect  that  I  cordially  entertain  towards 
him.     When,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  think  of  the 
smallness  of  the  objections  and  of  the  greatness 
of  the  subjects  involved,  I  cannot  help  seeing 
that  it  is  much  to  the  interest  of  the  British 
Empire,  as  certainly  it  is  altogether  to  our 
interest,  that  the  scheme  now  before  us  should 
go  forward  to  fruition.  I  should  have  liked,  had 
time  permitted,  to  have  said  a  few  words  as  to 
the  remarkable  concurrence  of  circumstances 
which  has  taken  place  in  connection  with  the 
present  movement,  and  to  the  no  less  remarka- 
ble unanimity  which  on  the  whole  prevailed  at 
the  Conference.  At  the  time  of  the  assembling 
of  that  body,  we  heard  from  all  quarters  of 
tlie  extreme  difficulty — the  almost   impossi- 
bility of  getting  so  many  men  of  widely  dif- 
ferent opinions,    and   representing    so   many 
diverse  interests,  to  come  to  a  mutual  under- 
standing.    It  could  only  have  been  accom- 
plished by  the  unanimous  desire  that  seemed 
to    prevail    to    accomplish    the    object    that 
brought  them   together.     And  now   that  we 
have  secured  a  scheme,  to  which  the  leading 
men  of  all  the  provinces  have  assented,  are 
we    to    throw    it    on   one   side,   and    adopt 
some  such   miserable  thing   in  its   stead    as 
that  proposed  by   my  honorable    friend  the 
member  for  Brome  ?     We  have  yet  to  learn 
what  other  merubers  of  the  Opposition  may  be 
able  to  produce ;    but  I  hope,  for  their  own 
credit's  sake,  they  will  submit  something  more 
suited   to  the  gravity  of  our   position.     As 
between  the  two  schemes  yet  suggested,  I  can 
have  no  difficulty  in  making  my   selection, 


64.8 


3Iuch  has  been  said,  and  I  believe  felt  also, 
about  the  uncertainty  of  our  future.  We  are 
forcibly  reminded  that  the  future  is  not  in  our 
own  hands ;  neither  by  any  prudence  or  wisdom 
of  our  own,  can  we  determine  it.  We  are 
from  day  to  day  debating  upon  our  present 
position,  devising  new  arrangements  for  the 
future,  and  discussing  the  probabilities  of  their 
success  or  failure.  It  proclaims  our  own  im- 
potence and  our  absolute  dependence  upon  a 
higher  Power.  I  feel  deeply,  sir — and  I  make 
no  apology  for  expressing  it — that  we  ought 
to  look  above  for  Divine  guidance ;  and  I 
regret  that  our  religious  differences  should  so 
operate  as  to  prevent  our  performing  together 
a  public  act  of  invoking  God's  blessing  on  our 
proceedings,  without  which  all  our  deliberations 
will  fail  of  success.    (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN  moved  that  the  debate 
be  adjourned. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  moved  in 
amendment,  that  the  debate  be  adjourned,  and 
be  resumed  immediately  after  routine  business 
on  Monday. 

After  discussion,  the  amendment  was  carried 
on  a  division. 

The  House  then  adjourned. 


Monday,  March  6,  1865. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— 
Before  the  debate  on  the  resolutions  in  your 
hands,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  continued,  I  wish 
to  say  a  few  words.  The  Government  is 
well  aware  that  the  House  must  naturally  feel 
anxious  and  desirous  of  ioformation — and 
that  no  doubt  questions  will  b3  asked — as 
to  the  course  which  the  Government  will 
pursue  in  consequence  of  the  news  that  has 
been  received  from  the  Province  of  New 
Brunswick,  with  reference  to  the  resulL  of 
the  elections  in  that  province.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  Government  arc  quite  prepared  to  state 
their  policy  on  the  question  before  the 
House,  in  view  of  that  inlbrmation.  Althougli 
we  have  no  oHicial  information  as  to  the 
result  of  those  eleetious,  and  would  not  be 
justified,  constitutionally,  in  making  up  our 
minds  as  to  that  result,  until  the  Legislature 
of  New  Brunswick  has  declared  itself  either 
for  or  against  the  Confederation  scheme; 
yet  we  know,  as  a  n)atter  of  fact — and  we 
cannot  shut  our  eyes  to  the  fact  — that  the 
Premier  and  several  of  his  col  leagues 
in    the    Government    of    New   Brunswick 


have     been     defeated,    and     that     so    far 
there     has     been     a      declaration     against 
the    policy    of     Federation.       Of     course, 
in  a  general  election,  it  is  not  to  be  supposed 
that  the   question    of  Confederation  is   the 
only  one   discussed   at  the   polls.      Being  a 
general  election,  there  was  the   usual  fight 
between  the  ins  and  tlie  outs,  the  Minister- 
ialists and  the  Opposition ;  and,  ot  course,  a 
lot  of  o'.her  influences  were  at  work,  such  as 
questions  between  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
on   the  one   hand,   and   lines   of  railway  to 
connect  with  the  United  States  on  the  other. 
Still,  we  should  not  be    treating  the  House 
with  candor  if  we  did  not  state  that  we  must 
consider  the  result  of  those  elections  as  a 
check  upon  the  Confederation  project.     The 
Canadian  Government  however,   I  may  say 
at  once,  do  not   consider   that  the   result  of 
these  elections  should  in  any  way  alter  their 
policy  or  their   course    upon  this  question. 
(Hear,  hear.)     They  wish  it  to  be  most  de- 
cidedly understood,  that  instead  of  thinking 
it  a  reason  for    altering    their  course,    they 
regard  it  as  an  additional  reason  for  prompt 
and  vigorous    action.     (Hear,   hear.)     AVe 
do  not  consider  that  in  these  events  to  which 
I  have  alluded,  there  is  any  cause  whatever 
for  the  abandonment  of  the   project,  or  for 
its  postponement.     In  fact,  the  only  reason 
why  we  should  consider  them  to  be  a  matter 
of  grave  import  is,  that  they  form  the  first 
check  that  the   project  has  received  since 
the  question  was  submitted  to  the  people  of 
these  provinces,  at  the  time  of  the  formation 
of  the  present  Government  of  Canada.      If 
we  only  look  back  to  June  last,  and  then 
regard   the  present  condition  of  the   ques- 
tion,  we   cannot  but   feel  surprise   at   the 
advance  which  has  been   made.     In  June 
last  we  would  have  been  sati-sfied  if  we  could 
have  contemplated  that  so  soon  as  this  the 
question   would   even   have    been    favorably 
entertained  by  the  governments  of  the  dif- 
ferenu    provinces.      But,    within    the    short 
period  whicli  has  since  elapsed,  a  conference 
has  been  held,  and  the  measure  framed  by 
that  conference  has  received  the  sanction  of 
the   governments  of  all   the  provinces,  and 
each  of  the  governments  of  the  five  colonies 
is  pledged  to  submit,   not  only  the  question 
of  Conicderation,   but   the  scheme   as  pre- 
pared by  the  Conference,  to  the  legislature 
of  each  of  those  provinces.     And    we  have 
gained  more  than  this.     Not  only  has  every 
government  of  every    colony    been  pledged 
to  the   scheme,    and  pledged   also  to  U83  all 

as  a  Government  to 


its  legitimate  influence 


649 


obtain  the  endorsation  of  the  project  by  their 
respective  legislatures,  but  we  have  al?o 
obtained  the  sanction  and  approval  of  the 
Government  of  the  Mother  Country. 
(^Hear,  hear.)  That  approval  has  been 
conveyed  to  us  by  a  formal  dispatch  from 
the  Colonial  Office,  and  in  addition,  we  have 
had,  subsequently,  the  approval  of  the  Brit- 
ish Grovernment  as  expressed  in  Her  Ma- 
jesty's own  words  in  the  Speech  from  the 
Throne  in  opening  the  Parliament  of  Great 
Britain.  And  not  only  this,  but  we  know 
that  it  has  met,  or  will  meet,  with  the  un- 
mistakable approbation  and  sanction  of  the 
Parliament,  the  press  and  the  people  of 
England.  (Hear,  hear.)  Therefore,  instead 
of  being  at  all  surprised  that  the  whole 
scheme  should  not  havebeen  begun,  carried  on, 
and  ended  without  one  check,  we  should  be 
well  satisfied  that  we  have  only  received  one 
such  check  from  the  commencement.  The 
obligations  under  which  the  Canadian 
Government  entered  at  the  time  that  the 
Conference  was  concluded,  and  those  resolu- 
tions finally  agreed  to,  still  remain  in  fall 
force,  and  we  feel  that  force.  We  feel  it  our 
duty  to  call  upon  the  Legislature  of  Canada, 
and  to  use  all  the  legitimate  influence  of  the 
Government  to  obtain  from  the  Legislature  of 
Canada  a  favorable  opinion  upon  the  resolu- 
tions that  havebeen  submitted  for  its  consider- 
ation. (Hear,  hear.)  And,  sir,  in  view  of 
the  intelligence  that  has  reached  us  from  New 
Brunswick,  we  think  it  of  more  importance 
than  ever  that  the  scheme  should  be  carried 
out  9s  a  whole — that  it  should  be  dealt  with 
as  a  treaty,  to  be  endorsed  without  one  single 
amendment  or  alteration,  (dear,  hear.)  As 
every  hon.  member  of  the  House  who  is 
desirous  of  carrying  Confederation  must  see, 
it  is  now  more  especially  necessary  that  that 
course  should  be  taken,  so  that  no  other 
province  shall  have  the  opportunity  of  say- 
ing, "  Why,  even  the  Province  of  Canada 
itself,  through  its  Legislature,  does  not  ap- 
prove of  the  scheme  as  settled  by  the  Con- 
ference." We  must  give  no  excuse  to  any 
one  of  the  colonies  to  say,  "  It  is  open  to  us 
to  deal  with  the  question  as  we  like ;  for 
even  the  Province  of  Canada,  which  pressed 
the  subject  upon  us  of  the  Lower  Provinces, 
did  not  express  its  approval  of  the  scheme, 
but  propounded  a  new  one  of  its  own,  which 
it  is  open  to  us  either  to  accept  or  reject." 
(Hear,  hear.)  Sir,  not  only  do  we  feel  that 
the  obligation  and  expediency  of  press- 
jug  this  measure  upon  the  attention  of  the 

83 


Legislature  remain  as  befo}  e,  but  we  feel  it 
all  the  more  necessary  now  to  call  for  prompt 
and  immediate  action.  The  Government 
will,  therefore,  at  once  state,  that  it  is  our 
design  to  press,  by  all  proper  and  parlia- 
mentary modes  of  procedure  within  our 
power,  for  an  early  decision  of  the  House 
— yes  or  no — whether  they  approve  of 
this  scheme  or  do  not.  (Hear,  hear.) 
One  great  reason,  among  others,  calling 
for  promptness,  is  to  provide  as  much 
as  possible  against  the  reaction  which  will 
take  place  in  England  from  the  disap- 
pointment that  will  pervade  the  minds  of 
the  people  of  England,  if  they  get  the 
impression  that  the  project  of  the  union  of 
the  provinces  is  abandoned.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  believe  that  if  one  thing  more  than  an- 
other has  raised  British  America,  or  the 
Province  of  Canada,  its  chief  component 
part,  in  the  estimation  of  the  people  and 
Government  of  England,  it  is  that  by  this 
scheme  there  was  offeied  to  the  Mother 
Country  a  means  by  which  these  colonies 
should  cease  to  be  a  source  of  embarrassment, 
and  become,  in  fact,  a  source  of  strength. 
This  feeling  pervades  the  public  mind  of 
England.  Every  writer  and  speaker  of  note 
in  the  United  Kingdom,  who  has  treated  of 
the  subject,  says  a  new  era  of  colonial  exist- 
ence has  been  inaugurated,  and  that  if  these 
colonies,  feeble  while  disunited,  were  a  source 
of  weakness,  they  will,  by  forming  this 
friendly  alliance,  become  a  strong  support  to 
England.  The  disappointment  of  the  corres- 
ponding reaction  would  be  great  in  the 
Mother  Country,  if  they  got  the  idea 
that  tx.e  project  was  to  be  given  up; 
and  we  appeal  to  honorable  gentlemen 
not  to  fall  away  from  the  position  we  have 
obtained  iiy  the  mere  submission  of  the 
scheme  to  the  Government  and  the  people 
of  England,  and  not  to  allow  Canada  and  the 
whole  of  British  America  to  lose  all  its 
vantage  ground  by  showing  any  signs  of 
weakuess,  any  signs  of  receding  on  this 
question.  (Hear,  hear.)  Another  reason 
why  this  question  must  be  dealt  with 
promptly  and  an  early  decision  obtained,  is, 
that  it  IS  more  or  less  intimately  connected 
with  the  question  of  defence,  an^  that  is  a 
question  of  the  most  imminent  necessity. 
(Hear,  hear.)  No  one  can  exaggerate  the 
necessity  which  exists  for  the  Legislature  of 
this  country  considering  at  once  the  defences 
that  are  called  for  in  the  present  position  of 
affairs  on  this  continent.      I  need  not   say 


650 


that  this  subject  has  engaged  our  anxious 
attention  as  a  Government.  The  Provincial 
Government  has  been  in  continued  corres- 
pondence with  the  Home  Government  as  to  the 
best  means  ot  organizing  an  efficient  de- 
fence against  every  hostile  pressure,  from 
whatever  source  it  may  come.  And,  as  this 
House  knows,  the  resolutions  themselves 
speak  of  the  defence  question  as  one  that 
must  immediately  engage  the  attention  of 
the  Confederation.  We  had  hoped  that  the 
Confederation  scheme  would  have  assumed 
such  an  aspect  that  the  question  could  have 
been  adjudged  of  as  a  whole,  and  that  one 
organized  system  of  defence  could  have  been 
arranged  between  tlie  Federal  Government 
and  the  Imperial  Government  at  an  early 
day.  But  we  cannot  disguise,  nor  can  we 
close  our  eyes  to  the  fact  that  the  course  of 
events  in  New  Brunswick  will  prevent  an 
early  united  action  among  the  provinces  on 
the  subject  of  defence 3  and,  therefore,  that 
question  comes  up  as  between  Canada  and 
England,  and  we  feel  that  it  cannot  be  post- 
poned. (Hear,  hear.)  In  fact  the  subject 
has  already  been  postponed  quite  too  long. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  time,  high  time,  that  it 
was  taken  up  and  dealt  with  in  a  vigorous 
manner.  (Hear,  hear.)  These  are  two  of 
the  reasons  which,  the  Government  feel, 
press  for  a  prompt  decision  of  the  House 
upon  the  resolutions  before  it.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Then  there  is  a  third  reason,  which  ie  found 
in  the  state  of  the  commercial  relations  exist- 
ing between  Canada  and  the  United  States. 
The  threatened  repeal  of  the  Reciprocity 
treaty,  the  hazard  of  the  United  States 
doing  away  with  the  system  of  bonding  goods 
in  transitu,  and  the  unsatisfactory  position 
generally  of  our  commercial  relations  with 
the  neighboring  country — all  this  calls  for 
immediate  action.  And  the  fact  of  the  union 
of  these  provinces  being  postponed,  and  of 
the  construction,  therefore,  of  the  Intercolo- 
nial Railway  being  put  off  iuaefiuitely,  ren- 
ders this  all  the  more  imperative.  It  is, 
therefore,  the  intention  ol'the  Government  — 
and  they  seek  the  support  of  this  House  and 
of  the  couutry  to  the  policy  which  I  now 
announce — first,  to  bring  this  debate  to  an 
end  with  all  convenient  speed,  with  a  view 
to  having  a  declaration  of  the  House  upon 
the  question  of  Confederation.  The  Gov- 
ernment, to  this  end,  will  [tress  for  .i  vote  by 
every  means  which  they  can  properly  use. 
Then,  secondly,  as  soon  as  that  is  obtained, 
it  is  the  intention  of  the  Government  to  ask 


the  Legislature  for  a  vote  of  credit,  and  pro- 
rogue Parliament  at  the  earliest  possible 
date.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  their  intention 
to  provide  that  all  the  unfinished  business  of 
the  present  session  shall  be  so  arranged,  that 
it  can  be  proceeded  w^ith  next  session,  from 
the  point  where  it  is  dropped  at  the  close  of 
this  session.  Upon  the  prorogation  of  Par- 
liament, the  Government  will  send  a  mission 
to  England  at  once,  for  the  purpose  of  dis- 
cussing and  arranging  these  important  points 
to  which  I  have  alluded — the  question  of 
Confederation,  under  its  present  aspect — the 
question  of  defence — and  all  matters  bearing 
upon  our  commercial  relations  with  the 
neighboring  country ;  with  instructions  to 
press  their  work  forward  with  the  least  pos- 
sible delay,  with  the  view  of  enabling  the 
Government  to  submit  the  result  of  the  mis- 
sion— which  we  hope  will  be  satisfactory — to 
this  House  at  an  early  summer  session. 
(Loud  cheers.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  said— The 
manner  and  spirit  in  which  the  Government 
have  made  the  announcement  of  their  de- 
cision is  so  far  satisfactory.  They  have, 
however,  adopted  a  new  policy  and  announced 
a  change  of  tactics,  and  one  which  this 
House  is  to  be  called  upon  to  enforce.  They, 
have  departed  widely  from  the  policy  that 
they  decided  upon  not  long  since.  I  beg 
leave  to  call  the  attention  of  the  House  to 
the  words  used  by  the  Hon.  Premier  of  the 
Government  himself,  at  the  opening  of  the 
session.     He  says  : — 

They  had  assumed  th«  charge  of  affairs  with 
au  understanding  that  thej  would  have  a  right  to 
app»al  to  the  country  ;  and  while  they  were  con- 
sulting about  it,  they  received  an  intimation  from 
the  real  chief  of  the  Opposition,  through  one  of 
their  own  friends,  to  the  effect  that  he  was 
desirous  of  making  oyertuies  to  them,  with  the 
view  of  seeking  to  accommodate  the  ditliculties. 
The  hon.  gentleman  aud  some  uf  his  friends  then 
came  into  contact  with  the  leaders  of  the  Govern- 
ment, and  it  was  agreed  betwecu  them  to  trj  to 
devise  a  scheme  which  would  put  an  end  to  the 
misunderstandings,  and  at  the  same  time  secure 
for  Canada  and  the  other  provinces  a  position 
which  would  ensiuro  their  fulure  Siit'etv,  and  pro- 
cure for  them  the  respect  and  confidence  of  otliwr 
nations.  They  arranged  a  large  scheme  and  a 
smaller  on«. 

And  now,  .Mr.  Spkakku,  1  wish  to  call  the 
attention  of  the  House  to  this  point.  "  If 
the  larger  failed,  then  thoy  were  to  fall  back 
upon  the  minor,  which  provided  for  a  Feder- 
ation of  the  two  sections  of  the  proviooo." 


651 


The  larger  scheme,  Mr.  Speaker,  is 
evidently  a  lailure.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I 
will  tell  you  why  I  think  it  a  "failure.  This 
scheme  was  to  be  agreed  to  by  all  the  pro- 
vinces, and  the  different  Governments  were 
to  bring  it  down  for  the  consideration  of 
their  several  Houses  of  Parliament.  The 
leaders  of  the  Opposition  in  New  Bruns- 
wick, as  well  as  the  Government  of  that 
province  agreed  to  a  treaty,  as  it  is  called, 
and  went  back  to  submit  that  treaty  to  their 
Legislature  for  approval.  But  being  defeated 
in  New  Brunswick,  it  is  not  possible  for  the 
arrangement  to  be  carried  out.  What  reason 
has  the  Government  for  believing  that  those 
who  have  been  just  elected  in  New  Bruns- 
wick as  opponents  of  the  scheme  will  allow 
it  to  be  brought  down  for  the  consideration 
of  their  Legislature  ?  How  can  it  be  expected 
that  a  free  people  will  agree  to  a  scheme, 
from  the  terms  of  which  they  entirely  dis- 
sent ?  It  seems  to  be  the  idea  of  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite,  that  if  this  Legislature 
adheres  to  the  scheme,  it  will  be  forced  upon 
the  unwilling  people  of  New  Brunswick — 
that  some  process  will  be  found  by  which 
the  Government  of  that  province  will  be 
induced  to  submit  it  to  their  Legislature. 
They  seem  to  imagine  that  the  rejection  of 
the  TiLLEY  Government,  and,  consequently, 
of  their  Confederation  scheme,  by  the  peo- 
ple, is  a  matter  that  can  be  traced  only  to 
the  annexation  proclivities  of  a  large  section 
of  the  people  of  New  Brunswick.  If  that  is 
so,  we  ought  immediately  to  appoint  a  day 
of  general  thanksgiving,  in  this  appropriate 
time  of  Lent,  for  the  blessing  of  being 
relieved  from  any  danger  of  union  with  such 
a  people.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  It 
would  be  one  of  the  greatest  misfortunes 
that  could  happen  our  province  to  be  con- 
nected with  those  annexationists. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— But-  it  is  not  true 
that  the  annexation  feeling  was  the  cause  of 

tnP  (iPTPJlt' 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  do  not  say 
it  is  so,  but  I  am  referring  to  what  members  of 
the  Government  have  said  about  this  defeat 
being  caused  by  the  disloyal  and  annexation 
proclivities  of  the  people  of  New  Brunswick. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Who 
did? 

Hon  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Well,  I  find 
their  organ  of  this  morning  attributing  it  to 
that  cause.  And  what  did  the  Minister  of 
Agricultuie  (Hon.  Mr.  McGee)  say  on  Fri- 
day night,  on  the  reception  of  the  news  ?  He 


said  there  were  many  in  that  portion  of  the 
province  who  were  influenced  by  a  desire  for 
connection  with  the  United  States,  and  that 
there  were  capitalists  from  Boston  and  from 
Maine  whcsc  interests  lay  in  having  New 
Brunswick  more  closely  coupled  with  the 
destiny  of  the  United  States.  If  these  are 
the  feelings  that  induced  the  gentlemen  who 
have  been  elected  to  repudiate  the  proceed- 
ings of  the  Convention,  then,  I  say  again, 
they  are  a  people  with  whose  views  we  of 
Canada  should  have  no  sympathy.  If  the 
gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  bencTies  suppose 
that  by  passing  these  resolutions  they  will 
compel  the  gentlemen,  who  have  been 
returned  to  that  Parliament  on  the  express 
condition  that  they  shall  oppose  the  treaty 
or  Convention  scheme,  to  turn  round  and 
support  it,  then  what  shall  we  say  of  such 
men  ?  What  shall  we  say  of  men  who, 
after  having  obtained  the  suffrages  of  the 
people  as  opponents  of  the  scheme,  shall  turn 
round  immediately  after  they  have  got  into 
office,  and  in  effect  perjure  themselves? 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have,  unfortunately, 
enough  of  that  class  of  legislators  in  Canada, 
without  linking  our  destinies  with  like 
persoDS  from  New  Brunswick.  If  that  is 
the  character  of  the  people  to  whom  we  are 
to  be  united,  then  all  I  can  say  is,  that  they 
are  not  a  desirable  class  to  have  added  to 
Canada.  If  it  is  contemplated  that  they  are 
going  to  compel  those  gentlemen  to  vote 
approval  of  the  scheme,  who  have  been 
ele«ted  specially  to  oppose  it,  it  would  be 
very  interesting  to  know  by  what  process  it 
is  to  be  done.  Are  they  to  be  bribed  into 
acquiescence,  or  forced  into  submission  ?  If 
the  latter,  then  we  must  presume  that  thej 
are  not  of  the  race  of  British  freemen  who, 
elsewhere,  would  resent  with  indignation — 
ay,  rebel — belore  yielding  up  their  indepen- 
dence; and  in  that  view,  they  are  again 
unworthy  of  association  with  us.  There  is 
no  doubt  that  the  gentlemen  who  have  been 
elected  in  New  Brunswick  have  deliberately 
considered  their  position,  and  whether  it  is 
attempted  to  bribe  them  or  coerce  them,  they 
will  manfully  resent  it.  I  do  not  believe  it 
is  desirable  to  have  a  Confederation 
adopted  by  either  course.  What  are  we  to 
gain  by  compelling  such  a  community  to 
come  in  with  us  ?  Will  they  not,  for  all 
time  to  come,  cast  upon  us  the  reflection 
that  they  became  part  and  parcel  of  the 
Confederney  without  their  consent  ?  Is  it 
desirable  t<)  have  to  do   with  neighboring 


esQ 


colonifets,  who  have  been  either  forced  or 
bribed  to  accept  what  is  repugnant  to  them  ? 
Will  they  not  always  be  a  source  of  Jiscord 
by  endeavoring  to  make  the  scheme  work 
badly  ?  (.Hear,  hear. )  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
Wi-  have  before  us  an  instance  of  the  danger 
of  men  uudertaking  to  make  treaties  witl'out 
authority.  This  is  the  kind  of  penalty 
which  they  pay,  lud  T  think  we  have  an 
inst;ilment  of  the  punishment  that  is  justly 
due  to  them,  and  whicli  they  will  receive. 
Sir,  we  find  that  in  New  Brunswick,  Nova 
Scotia  and  Prince  Edward  Island,  a  union 
took  place  between  the  Government  and  t!io 
Opposition  for  the  purpose  of  arrantiing  a 
plan  by  which  those  provinces  shou'd  be 
joined  together.  They  had  the  authority  of 
their  respective  governments  and  hgislatures 
before  entering  into  that  Conference.  They 
met  together  by  deliberate  pre-arranaoment, 
with  full  consent,  unlike  the  manner  in  which 
the  gentlemen  opposite  precipitated  them-- 
selves  into  a  union  fever,  growing  out  of  a 
political  contingency.  When  the  delegates 
went  to  Charlottetown.  from  their  respective 
provinces,  to  treat  of  matters  of  great  impor- 
tance to  the  people  of  those  provinces,  and 
considered  it  to  be  a  desirable  object  to  obtain 
the  union  of  the  Maritime  Provinces,  they 
were  interrupted  in  their  deliberations  by  the 
members  of  the  Canadian  Government  — 
Greater  iLducements  were  then  oiFered  them, 
and  they  were  filled  with  higher  hopes  and 
expectations  of  the  good  things  to  be  derived 
from  the  Confederation  ol  all  the  provinces. 
Lieutenant-governorships,  chief-j  nsticeships, 
and  lite-memberships  of  the  Legislative 
Council  were  all  held  out  in  the  prospective 
by  the  Canadian  Ministers.  By  these  means 
they  inveigled  these  men  fronc  the  object  for 
which  they  met,  and  undermined  the  purpose 
they  were  assembled  to  promote.  The  Cana- 
dian Ministers  said  : — *'  Never  mind  your 
union  of  these  provinces.  Come  away  from 
Charlottetown  with  us,  and  we  will  show  you 
plans  by  which  your  ambition  may  be  bett  r 
gratified,  although  you  may  thereby  betray 
the  trust  of  the  people  who  sent  you  here 
They  may  not  be  satisfied,  but  never  mind 
them — the^  Ct.n  be  managed  in  some  way 
afterwards.  We  will  show  you  the  way," 
This,  in  effect,  was  the  language  used  towards 
the  delegates.  They  took  the  bait  oflFered 
them,  and  the  next  thing  we  heard  of 
was  the  adjournment  ot  the  Convention 
to  Halifax,  where  the  delegates  enjoyed  the 
*' feast  of  reason  and  fhe  flow  of  »ouI"   for  a 


week.  They  then  sped  off  to  St.  John, 
where  convivialities  were  renewed,  and  finally 
they  all  agreed  to  come  to  Quebec,  and  we 
all  recollect  the  subsequent  feastinsrs  in 
Montreal,  Ottawa,  Kingston,  Toronto  and 
Hamilton.  I  will  not  allude  to  the  meeting 
that  took  place  here,  because  it  is  well  known 
what  the  result  of  the  Conference  was ;  but  I 
will  speak  of  the  sequel  to  these  proceedings 
— the  events  that  subsequently  happened  in 
the  Lower  Provinces.  Hon.  Mr.  Tillet  knew 
he  could  have  submitted  the  scheme  of  the 
Quebec  Conference  to  the  people  of  New 
Brunswick — that  he  could  have  summoned 
the  Parliament  of  that  province  and  ascer- 
tained what  its  wishes  were — as  early  as  the 
Canadian  Government  could.  But  he  did 
nothing  of  the  kind.  He  knew  he  had  vio- 
lated the  trust  reposed  in  him,  and  that  he 
had  given  reason  for  a  withdrawal  of  the  peo- 
ple's confidence ;  but  he  thought  that  by 
bringing  on  an  election  in  the  country,  he 
could  gain  his  own  ends  by  the  unsparing  use 
of  all  the  influence  a  government  can  employ 
on  such  occasions,  and  by  employing  all  the 
arts  ol"  cajolery  for  the  purpose  of  deceiving 
the  peoplf  and  winning  them  over  to  his  own 
selfish  purposes.  Well,  what  is  the  result  ? 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  and  his  followers  are  routed 
horse  and  foot  by  the  honest  people  of  the 
province,  scouted  by  those  whose  interests 
he  had  betrayed  and  whose  behests  he  had 
neglected ;  and  I  think  his  fate  ought  to  be  a 
warning  to  those  who  adopted  this  scheme 
without  authority,  and  who  ask  the  House  to 
ratify  it  en  bloc,  without  having  sought  or 
seeking  to  obtain  the  sanction  of  the  people. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  come  now,  sir,  to  a  matter 
personal  perhaps  more  to  myself  than  to  any 
one  else.  I  would  ask  the  House  who  was  it 
that  assailed  the  Government  of  Canada  more 
by  his  speeches  and  letters  than  this  same 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  ?  Who  was  it  that  charged 
the  Government  of  this  country  with  a  breacli 
of  faith  towards  the  Lower  Provinces  in  refer- 
ence to  the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway ;  and  whose  statement  was  it  that 
was  reechoed  on  the  floor  of  this  House  over 
and  over  again,  that  Canada  had  lowered  its 
character  and  dignity  by  failing  to  go  on  with 
that  undertaking?  Was  it  not  the  Hon.  Mr. 
Tilley  who  made  these  false  accusations, 
and  were  they  not,  on  his  authority,  repeated 
hero  by  an  honorable  gentleman  now  in  the 
Government,  at  the  head  of  the  Bureau  of 
Agriculture  (Hon.  Mr.  McGee)?  Recollect- 
ing these  things,  sir,  I  have  a  pleasure — a 
mischievous  pleasure — (hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 


653 


ter) — I  have  a  miscliievous  pleasure,  I  say,  in 
knowino;  that  the  Hon.  Mr.  Tillet  has  been 
defeated.  (Ironical  cheers.)  I  repeat  that  I 
have  experienced  to-day  a  considerable  degree 
of  happiness  in  announcing  that  the  man  who, 
at  the  head  of  the  Government  of  New  Brun- 
wick,  betrayed  the  trust  of  the  people,  who 
failed  to  carry  out  their  wishes  in  respect  to 
the  union  of  the  Maritime  Provinces,  who 
exceeded  the  authority  with  which  he  was 
entrusted,  who  betrayed  the  interests  of  his 
province  and  abandoned  everything  that  he 
was  sent  to  Charlottetown  to  obtain — the  man 
who  went  throughout  the  length  and  breadth 
of  his  province  crying  out  against  the  good 
faith  of  the  then  Canadian  Government — I 
say  I  have  happiness  in  announcing  that  he 
has  been  disposed  of  by  the  people.  ( [Tear, 
hear.)  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  came  to  Quebec  in 
1863,  with  Hon.  Mr.  Tupper,  and  although 
he  made  the  charge  of  bad  faith  against  the 
Canadian  Government,  he  knew  as  well  as 
Hon.  Mr.  Tuppee  that  the  agreement  of  1862 
respecting  the  Intercolonial  Railway  was  to 
be  abandoned,  except  so  far  as  the  survey  of 
the  line  was  concerned. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— Hear,  hear. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— The  honor- 
able gentleman  cries  "  Hear,  hear,"  but  can  he 
say  that,  while  a  member  of  the  Government, 
he  did  not  write  a  letter  to  a  gentleman  in 
this  province,  in  which  he  said  that  the  scheme 
of  1862  was  abandoned  by  the  Canadian  Gov- 
ernment. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— The  honorable  gen- 
tleman has  made  that  charge  once  before  pub- 
licly, and  I  denied  it  publicly.  If  he  can  get 
any  such  letter  of  mine,  he  is  fully  authorized 
by  me  to  make  it  public.  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley, 
so  far  from  believing  the  scheme  abandoned, 
went  back  to  New  Brunswick  with  a  very  dif- 
ferent impression  ;  and  I  ask  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman whether  he  did  not  say  to  him  while 
here :  —  "I  declare  to  God,  Tilley,  if  I 
thought  by  resigning  my  ofl&ce  we  could  get 
the  Intercolonial  Railway,  I  would  do  it." 
The  honorable  gentleman  is  out  of  office  now, 
and  perhaps  he  will  say  whether  he  made  this 
declaration  or  not.     (Hear,  hear.j 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  — I  do  not 
deny  that.  I  was  then,  and  always  have 
been,  in  favor  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
and  am  desirous  that  it  should  be  built. 
I  think  that  an  outlet  to  the  ocean  on  Bri- 
tish soil,  at  all  seasons  of  the  year,  is  a 
very  desirable  thing  to  be  obtained,  and  upon 
that  point  I  have  never  changed  my  opinion. 
But  I  do  say  that  Hon.  Mr.  Tupper  and  Hon, 


Mr.  Tilley  understood  that  it  was  not  to  be 
proceeded  with  at  that  time,  and  a  memor  in- 
dum  was  drawn  up  by  Dr.  Tupper  at  the  time 
(I  am  now  speaking  in  the  presence  tA  my 
late  colleagues,  who  are  aware  of  all  the  tacts), 
embodying  the  decision  at  which  the  Govern- 
ment arrived,  but  which  was  not  signed,  bee  i  use 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  asked  that  Mr.  Fleming 
might  be  considered  as  engaged  to  priyiced 
with  the  survey,  and  wished  to  reserve  it  for 
the  formal  ratification  of  his  colleagues  when 
he  went  back  to  New  Brunswick.  When  he 
did  go  back,  his  colleagues  dissented  from  the 
views  he  had  formed,  and,  in  order  to  get 
himself  out  of  the  awkward  position  in  which 
he  was  placed,  he  took  the  ground  t  -.at  the 
abandonment  of  the  project  was  owin ?:  t<^  the 
bad  faith  of  the  Canadian  Governmenr.  Now 
I  say  it  is  a  matter  of  great  satisfactioa  to 
me  that  the  honorable  gentleman  who  cir- 
culated this  charge,  and  gave  ground  for 
honorable  gentlemen  now  on  the  Treasury 
benches  to  attack  the  Government  of  which  I 
was  a  member,  and  accuse  it  of  bad  faith  to  the 
sister  provinces,  has  for  these  bold  and  auda- 
cious statements  met  his  just  deserts.  He  has 
been  scouted  and  rejected  by  his  own  people. 
He  has  lost  their  confidence,  and  with  .  nat 
loss  of  confidence  this  great  scheme  of  Con- 
federation has  come  to  woeful  grief.  I  say 
punishment  has  overtaken  him.  It  was  a 
long  time  coming,  but  it  has  come  at  last  v,  it'i 
terrible  effect.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Bon. 
Attorney  General  West  says  that  the  Govern- 
ment will  ask  for  a  vote  of  credit,  but  he  has 
not  told  us  how  long  this  vote  will  extend. 
He  does  not  teil  what  they  will  do  if  vhe 
Confederation  scheme  fails,  as  it  is  pretty 
sure  to  fail.  He  does  not  say  that  it  is  going 
to  carry,  nor  does  he  say  that  it  will  b=^  suc- 
ceeded by  any  other.  Where,  I  would  like  to 
know,  is  the  smaller  scheme — the  pet  scheme 
of  the  member  for  South  Oxford — of  a  Fcrlcr- 
ation  of  Canada  first,  to  be  followed,  it 
need  be,  by  a  Federation  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces ?  What  is  the  honorable  gentlem nu 
to  do  with  this  scheme?  Is  it  to  he 
brought  down  to  the  House,  or,  the  larger  one 
having  failed,  is  it  to  be  kept  in  hand  for-  use 
at  some  future  time?  Have  we  not  a  riL'Kt 
to  know  what  this  scheme  is  and  what  the 
Government  proposes  to  do  in  regard  to  it? 
(Hear,  hear.)  Are  the  people  of  the  country 
to  be  left  in  a  feverish  state  of  excitoment, 
because  the  Government  has  no  definite  poiit-y, 
until  the  mission  spoken  of  goes  to  EaL'.auu, 
in  the  hope  that  the  people  of  the  Lower 
Provinces  will  in  the  meantime  repent  oi  the 


654. 


action  they  have  taken  ?  Why,  sir,  not  only 
have  the  minds  of  the  people  of  Canada  been 
unhinged  by  the  proceedings  of  the  past  year, 
not  only  have  they  been  made  dissatified  with 
the  institutions  umler  which  they  have  lived  and 
prospered  for  a  number  of  years,  but  political 
parties  have  also  been  demoralized.  (Hear, 
near.)  Yes,  the  Reform  party  has  become  so 
disorganized  by  this  Confederation  scheme, 
that  there  is  scarcely  a  vestige  of  its  greatness 
left — hardly  a  vestige  of  that  great  party  that 
demanded  reform  for  a  number  of  years,  but 
which  unfortunately,  in  1864  as  in  1854, 
went  over  to  the  other  side  when  its  leaders 
could  no  longer  endure  to  remain  in  the  cold 
shades  of  opposition.  (Hear,  hear.)  Is  it 
too  much  to  ask  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  to  tell  us  something  of  the 
scheme  for  federating  these  two  provinces — 
to  give  us  an  inkling  of  what  is  to  be  done, 
now  that  the  other  scheme  has  failed,  and  of 
the  liabilities  to  be  assumed  by  the  respective 
sections  of  Canada  ?  Are  we  to  be  kept  in 
ignorance  on  these  subjects  ?  Are  the  affairs 
of  the  country  to  continue  in  the  unsettled 
state  in  which  they  now  are  ?  Is  all  legisla- 
tion to  remain  at  a  stand-still  until  the  more 
and  more  doubtful  prospect  of  Confederation 
is  realized  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  What  amount 
of  money  is  required  by  the  Government  to 
meet  the  danger  that  is  said  to  have  suddenly 
threatened  us  ?  Are  the  people  not  to  know 
what  preparations  are  to  be  made  and  what 
sums  are  to  be  expended  in  our  defence  ?  I 
am  not  opposed  to  any  proper  measures  being 
taken  to  defend  the  country,  but  at  the  same 
time  prudence  dictates  that  we  should  know 
what  they  are  to  cost  before  we  blindly  vote  for 
them.  If  Confederation  is  not  to  take  place, 
what  is  the  use  of  going  on  with  measures  of 
defence  that  depended  upon  Confederation 
being  carried  ?  Why  not  come  down  now 
with  a  scheme  that  will  apply  to  Canada  alone, 
and  let  us  know  precisely  what  burdens  the 
people  will  have  to  bear  for  their  defence, 
what  additional  taxation  will  be  required,  and 
all  other  information  connected  with  the  sub- 
ject ?  CHear,  hear.)  I  do  say  that  it  is 
anything  but  satisfactory  to  be  told  that  we 
are  to  postpone  the  promised  scheme  for  our 
defence  at  this  time,  to  adjourn  over  till  suni- 
mer,aud  in  the  meantime  to  send  commissioners 
home  to  treat  with  the  Imperial  Government. 
If  the  danger  is  so  imminent  as  it  is  said  to 
be,  why  this  long  delay  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir, 
I  never  was  myself  an  advocate  of  any  change 
in  our  Constitution  ;  I  believed  it  was  capable 
of  being  well  worked  to  the  satisfaction  of  the 


people,  if  we  were  free  from  demagogues  and 
designing  persons  who  sought  to  create  strife 
between  the  sections.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am 
not  disposed  to  extend  my  remarks  further  at 
present.  All  I  can  say  is,  that  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  West  has  done  the  House 
justice  if  he  has  given  us  all  the  information 
in  his  possession  with  regard  to  the  present 
aspect  of  the  Confederation  question ;  and  yet 
it  appears  to  me  somewhat  absurd  to  proceed 
with  the  debate,  when  even  the  Government 
itself  admits  the  measure  to  bo  a  failure. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  think  the  an- 
nouncement made  by  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  must  have  taken  the  House  a  little 
by  surprise.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  policy 
agreed  on  by  the  Government  in  June,  18G4, 
was  certainly  not  the  one  carried  out  at  the 
opening  of  this  session,  and  still  less  that  which 
has  just  been  announced.  The  policy,  as  we 
find  it  in  a  memorandum  then  communicated 
to  the  House,  was  that  a  measure  for  the 
Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas,  with  pro- 
visions for  the  admission  of  the  other  pro- 
vinces, should  be  brought  before  the  House 
this  session.  I  will  give  the  terms  of  the 
memorandum,  in  order  that  there  may  be  no 
doubt  about  it.  When  explanations  were 
gtven  in  June  last,  by  the  present  Govern- 
ment, two  memoranda  were  communicated  to 
the  House.  One  was  a  memorandum  that 
had  been  communicated  to  the  Hon.  the 
President  of  the  Council,  and  marked  "  Con- 
fidential."    It  was  in  these  words : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  state,  that  im- 
mediately after  the  prorogation,  they  will  address 
themselves,  in  the  most  earnest  manner,  to  the  n«- 
gotiation  for  a  Confederation  ot  all  the  British 
North  American  Provmces. 

That,  failing  a  successful  issue  to  such  uegoti- 
tious,  they  aie  prepared  to  pledge  themselves  to 
legislation  during  the  next  session  of  Parliament 
for  the  purpose  ot  remedying  the  existing  difficul- 
ties, by  introducing  the  Federal  principle  for 
Canada  alone,  coupled  with  such  provisions  as 
will  permit  the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North- 
western Territory  to  be  hereafter  incorporated 
into  the  Canadian  svstem. 

That,  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  on  the  nego- 
tiations and  iettliiig  the  details  of  the  promised 
hgislation,  a  Royal  Commission  shall  be  issued, 
composed  of  three  members  of  the  Government 
and  three  memb(>r8  of  the  Opposition,  of  whom 
ilr.  Brown  shall  be  one,  and  the  Covernraent 
pledge  themselves  to  give  all  the  influence  of  the 
Administration  to  secure  to  the  said  Commission 
the  means  of  advancing  the  great  objec  t  in  view. 

This   was  the  first  memorandum    that   yj-s 


655 


communicated  to  the  Honorable  President  of 
the  Council.  It  was  a  proposition  on  behalf 
of  the  members  of  the  then  Government  to 
the  Honorable  President  of  the  Council,  to 
the  effect  that  the  Government  would  be  pre- 
pared, immediately  after  that  session,  to  take 
measures  for  obtaining  a  Confederation  of  all 
the  provinces,  and,  failing  in  that  scheme,  to 
bring  into  the  House  at  the  next  session — 
that  is  the  present  session — a  scheme  for  the 
Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas,  with  a 
provision  that  the  Maritime  Provinces  might 
come  into  the  union  when  they  saw  fit.  But 
this  proposition  was  not  accepted,  and  another 
memorandum  was  submitted  to  the  Honor- 
able President  of  the  Council  in  the  following 
terms : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  pledge  them- 
aelves  to  bring  in  a  measure  next  session  for  the 
purpose  of  removing  existing  difficulties,  b}  in- 
troducing the  Federal  principle  into  Canada, 
coupled  with  such  provisions  as  will  permit  the 
Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North-WestTeriitorj 
to  be  incorporated  into  the  same  system  of  gov- 
ernment. 

This,  then,  is  what  the  Government  pledged 
itself  to  do.  The  first  memorandum  to  open 
negotiations  for  a  Confederation  with  the 
Lower  Provinces  was  rejected  by  the  Honor- 
able President  of  the  Council,  and  he  agreed 
to  go  into  the  Government  on  this  pledge, 
that  it  would  be  prepared  to  bring  in  a  mea- 
sure, this  session,  for  the  purpose  of  removing 
existing  difficulties,  by  introducing  the  Fed- 
eral principle  into  the  Government  of  Canada, 
coupled  with  such  provisions  as  would  enable 
the  Lower  Provinces  to  come  in  at  any  sub- 
sequent time.  This  is  the  measure  that  was 
promised  by  the  Government ;  this  is  the 
measure  that  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
other  side,  at  the  end  of  last  session,  said 
they  would  be  prepared  to  introduce  to  the 
Legislature  this  session.  But  instead  of  that 
the  whole  scheme  has  been  altered.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — Read  the  balance  of 
the  statement. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— There  is  nothing  in 
the  remainder  of  it  to  qualify  the  pledge  then 
made  by  the  Government.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
is  a  distinct  and  positive  pledge  given  by  hon. 
gentlemen  in  their  places  on  the  Treasury 
benches,  that  at  this  session  of  Parliament 
they  would  bring  in  a  measure  for  the  Con- 
federation of  the  two  Canadas,  leaving  it  to 
the  other  provinces  to  come  in  if  they  pleased. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Certainly  there  is  this  addition 
at  the  end  of  the  memorandum : — 


And  the  Government  will  seek,  by  sending 
representatives  to  the  Lower  Provinces  and  to 
England,  to  secure  the  assent  of  those  interests 
which  are  beyond  the  control  of  our  own  legisla- 
tion, to  such  a  mjasure  as  will  enable  all  British 
North  America  to  be  united  under  a  General 
Legislature  based  upon  the  Federal  system. 

We  find,  from  these  explanations,  that  a 
measure  for  the  Confederation  of  the  whole 
of  the  provinces  did  not  suit  the  Hon.  Presi- 
dent of  the  Council  and  the  Liberal  party  in 
Upper  Canf'da,  that  it  was  rejected  by  him 
and  his  party  as  not  the  proper  remedy 
for  our  difficulties,  and  that  another  meas- 
ure was  accepted  by  him,  applying  the 
principle  of  Federation  to  the  two  Canadas  ; 
and  in  order  to  secure  to  that  measure  the 
acquiescence  of  those  interests  which  were 
beyond  the  control  of  the  Government  of  this 
country,  delegates  were  to  be  sent  to  confer 
with  the  Lower  Provinces  with  the  view  of 
bringing  them  into  this  union.  Well,  sir, 
I  must  say  thit  if  the  honorable  gentlemen 
opposite  had  not  been  untrue  to  their  pledge 
—  if  they  had  brought  to  this  House  the 
measure  they  then  promised  —  we  in  this 
country  would,  at  all  events,  have  been  saved 
the  humiliation  of  seeing  the  Government 
going  on  its  knees  and  begging  the  little 
island  of  Prince  Edward  to  come  into  this 
union,  and  then  going  to  Nova  Scotia  and 
New  Brunswick  and  supplicating  them  to  re- 
lieve us  of  our  difficulties ;  and  saved  the 
humiliation  of  seeing  these  supplications  and 
the  bribes  in  every  direction  with  which  they 
were  accompanied,  in  the  shape  of  subsidies 
to  New  Brunswick  and  Newfoundland,  and 
of  the  Intercolonial  Railway,  rejected  by 
those  to  whom  they  were  offered.  Canada 
would,  at  all  events,  have  held  a  dignified 
position,  and  not  suffered  the  humiliation  of 
seeing  all  the  offers  of  our  Government  in- 
dignantly rejected  by  the  people  of  the  Lower 
Provinces.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  says  that  the  scheme  of  Confederation 
has  obtained  the  consent  of  the  governments 
of  all  the  provinces;  but  where  are  those 
governments  now  ?  Where  is  the  Government 
of  New  Brunswick  ?  Where  is  the  Govern- 
ment of  Prince  Edward  Island  ?  (Hear, 
hear.)  As  for  the  Government  of  Nova  Sco- 
tia, it  pledged  itself  to  bring  the  scheme  be- 
fore the  Legislature  ;  but  it  is  well  known  that 
it  dare  not  press  it,  and  still  less  appeal  to 
the  people  upon  it.  The  members  of  that 
Government  were  wiser  than  the  Government 
of  New  Brunswick,  and  would  not  appeal  to 
the  people.     And  here  I  must  say  that  I 


656 


coruplinient  the  Government  upon  the  wisdom 
it  4toAV\^  in  not  appealing  to  the  people  of 
Cauaiia.  Honorable  gentlemen  have  shown  far 
more  Urosight  in  this  matter  than  the  Gov- 
ernui^nt  of  New  Brunswick,  in  refusing  to 
let  llic  people  have  an  opportunity  of  pro- 
nouncing upon  this  scheme,  for  the  petitions 
oouiinii,  down  daily  against  it  show  conclu- 
sively that  the  people,  of  Lower  Canada  at 
all  events,  are  almost  unanimously  against 
it,  and  that  an  appeal  to  them  would  meet, 
as  rc^^ards  the  members  of  the  Lower  Ca- 
nada Administration,  with  the  same  fate 
which  befel  the  members  of  the  New  Bruns- 
wick fjrovernment.  (Hear.)  I  do  not  wish, 
sir,  to  prolong  this  debate  more  than  neces- 
sary, out  I  must  say  that  I  am  surprised  to 
hcai  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West  say  that 
the  dcicnces  of  the  country  require  such  im- 
mediate attention  that  the  matter  cannot  be 
delayed  for  a  moment.  If  I  mistake  not,  the 
(jovornment  have  had  in  their  hands  a  report 
from  (Jol.  Jervois  upon  the  defences,  since 
the  12th  of  October  last,  and  yet  since  that 
time  not  a  single  thing  has  been  done  towards 
dcfieacj.  We  are  now  told  with  startling 
emphasis  that  the  country  is  about  to  be  in- 
vaded, or  is  in  most  imminent  danger  ;  and 
all  at  c  .ice,  now  that  the  great  scheme  of 
(Joniederation  is  defeated,  we  learn  that  not 
an  hour's  delay  can  be  allowed,  and  that  we 
cannot  even  wait  to  vote  the  supplies,  so 
ur^cat  is  the  necessity  of  sending  a  mission  to 
Kl..  land  about  this  matter.  Between  Friday 
lasc  ;ind  this  morning  the  Government  has  dis- 
covered that  this  imminent  danger  threatens 
u.<,  and  60  anxious  is  it  about  it  that  we 
cannot  even  stop  to  vote  the  ordinary  sup- 
pi  lefc,  but  must  pass  at  once  a  vote  of  credit, 
(ilear,  hear.)  And,  sir,  while  I  am  on  the 
subject  of  the  defences,  I  must  say  it  is  most 
astonishing  that  although  we  have  repeatedly 
asked  for  information  on  the  subject,  in  con- 
nection with  this  great  scheme,  we  can  not 
get  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  At  the  earliest  mo- 
ment after  the  commencenjcnt  of  the  session, 
the  honorable  member  for  Drummond  and 
Arthabaska  (Mr.  J.  B.  E.  DoRION)  made  a 
motion  for  any  despatches,  reports,  or  com- 
munications, or  for  extracts  thereof,  which 
mii^lit  be  in  the  possession  of  the  Government 
on  tlie  question  of  the  defences  of  the  country, 
and  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West  rose 
and  replied  that  to  give  this  information  would 
endanger  the  safety  of  the  province.  The 
Ministry  of  Canada  therefore  refused  us  that 
which  we  now  find  in  the  report  which  comes 
from  England. 


Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Not 
the  report. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— If  not  the  report, 
at  all  events  the  substance  of  it.  There  they 
do  not  find  that  it  will  endanger  the  safety  of 
the  country  by  giving  the  House  of  Commons 
such  information  as  will  enable  Parliament  to 
take  the  necessary  steps  to  provide  for  the 
defences  of  any  part  of  the  British  Empire. 
I  moved  another  Address  at  a  later  period, 
asking  for  such  information  on  the  subject  of 
our  defences  as  the  Government  might  deem 
it  proper  to  give  ;  and  although  that  Address 
was  voted  a  full  fortnight  ago,  I  have  been 
unable  to  obtain  an  answer  to  it  up  to  the 
present  time.  Nor  can  we  get  information  in 
regard  to  the  finances — in  fact  every  kind 
of  information  which  is  necessary  to  enable  us 
to  form  proper  and  correct  judgments  is 
refused.  But,  sir,  I  must  say  that  at  the 
present  moment  I  am  unaware  of  any  reason 
which  could  be  urged  for  our  being  called  upon 
to  act  with  such  precipitate  haste  as  to  grant 
a  vote  of  credit  to  hon.  gentlemen.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  session  has  been  called  at  the 
usual  time — rather  earlier  than  the  usual 
time  for  holding  our  meetings  of  Par- 
liament— and  I  say  it  is  a  most  extraor- 
dinary thing  that  we  should  be  asked  by  the 
honorable  gentlemen  on  the  other  side  to  give 
them  a  vote  of  credit.  (Hear,  hear.)  Why, 
sir,  is  the  whole  business  of  the  country  to  be 
thrown  into  a  condition  of  derangement  in 
order  to  allow  the  honorable  gentlemen  to  get 
themselves  out  of  a  difliculty — not  to  get  the 
country,  but  themselves,  out  of  the  difficulty 
which  they  have  acknowledged  to  have  over- 
taken them  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Are  all  the 
afi"airs  of  the  province  to  be  thrown  over,  for 
such  a  reason,  txntil  next  session,  which  may 
not  be  held  for  six  months  or  nine  months,  or 
until  the  honorable  gentlemen  chocse  to  c  ill  us 
again  together  ?  Because  "  an  early  summer 
session  "  may  be  the  month  of  August  or  the 
month  of  September,  or  it  may  mean  even  a 
later  period  than  that.  Do  they  expect  a 
vote  of  credit  of  six  millions  of  dollars  to  enable 
them  to  construct  these  defences  which  are 
spoken  of  by  Col.  Jervois  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT— No,  no. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Then,  if  we  do  not 
pass  a  vote  for  that  purpose,  what  is  to  be- 
come of  the  country  in  the  meantime  ?  (Hear, 
liear.)  We  are  told  that  there  is  urgent  ne- 
cessity for  expending  money  on  our  defences, 
and  that  the  danger  is  imminent.  Well,  sir, 
I  apprehend  if  there  is  imminent  danger,  we 
ought  to  be  kept  sitting  here  until  provision 


657 


is  made  to  meet  tliat  danger,  or  at  all  events, 
affairs  ought  to  be  placed  in  such  a  position 
that,  at  any  moment,  we  can  be  called  to- 
gether to  provide  for  the  danger.  (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  G-ALT — We  want  to  avert  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— What  is  the  dan- 
ger? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — It  puzzles  the  hon- 
orable gentlemen  to  reply.     I  think  that  they 
themselves  never  discovered   there  was  any 
cause  for  alarm  until  Friday  last,  when  there 
was  imminent  danger  of  the  defeat  of  their 
scheme,  and  imminent  danger  also  of  the  loss 
of  their  position.  (Laughter.)  This,  sir,  is  the 
real  danger  the  hon.  gentlemen  want  to  avert, 
and  they  proceed  to  do  so  by  asking  us,  in  lieu 
of  granting  the  ordinary  supplies,  to  pass  a  vote 
of  credit.     We  will  then  be  sent  away,  with 
the  prospect  before  their  friends  and  support- 
ers of  another  session  this  summer,  when  the 
additional  sessional  allowance  will  of  course 
be  welcome  to  all.     (Hear,  hear,  a.nd  laugh- 
ter.)    I  simply  rose,  sir,  to  protest  against 
the  continuance  of  this  scheme  by  the  honor- 
able gentlemen  opposite.     I  think  they  are 
bound  to  proceed  in  some  other  way,  seeing 
that  this  scheme  cannot  be  carried  as  it  cer- 
tainly  cannot.     It  has  been  rejected  not  only 
by  New  Brunswick,  but  by  Prince  Edward 
Island,  one  of  whose  delegates  to  Quebec,  Mr. 
Whelan,  has  been  holding  meetings,  and  all 
that  he  has  been  able  to  accomplish  is  the 
passing  of  resolutions  of  confidence  in  himself, 
and  the  assertion  that  no  such  scheme  should 
be  given  effect  to  without  being  first  submit- 
ted to  the  people.     That  is  the  most  favora- 
ble expression  of  opinion  that  can  bo  obtained 
in  Prince  Edward  Island.     It  is  well  known, 
too,  that  the  Legislature  of  Nova  Scotia  is 
against  the  scheme  by  a  large  majority.    And 
now  we  find  that  New  Brunswick  has  pro- 
nounced against  it  also.    Will  hon.  gentlemen 
go  to  England  and  press  on  the  scheme  under 
such  circumstances  ?     Will  they  argue  that 
because  we  are  2,500,000  and  they  only  900,- 
000,  we  ought  to  swallow  them  up  by  press- 
ing  them  into   Confederation   against  their 
wishes  ?     (Hear,  hear.)     I   do  not   suppose 
honorable  gentlemen  on  the  other  side  pur- 
pose attempting  to  coerce,  by  means  of  their 
influence  with  the  Imperial  Government,  the 
Lower  Provinces  to  come  into  this  Confedera- 
tion. Therefore  it  is  that  I  say  that  this  scheme 
is  killed.    (Hear,  hear,  and  derisive  Opposition 
cheers.)     I  repeat  that  it  is  killed.     I  claim 
that  it  is  the  duty  of  hon.  gentlemen  opposite, 
and  particularly  is  it  the  duty  of  the  Hon. 
President  of  the  Council,  to  insist  upon  their 

84 


colleagues  keeping  to  the  pledges  they  have 
made.  It  is  the  duty  of  the  Liberal  members 
generally  to  insist  on  these  pledges  being 
redeemed,  without  which  they  would  have 
refused  to  sanction  the  taking  of  office  by  the 
three  Liberal  members  of  the  Government, 
and  in  accordance  with  which  alone  they 
could  justify  that  step  before  their  consti- 
tuents. It  was  only  the  knowledge  that, 
failing  tie  success  of  this  measure,  they  would 
carry  out  a  scheme  which  was  within  the 
power  of  the  Government  to  carry,  that  the 
Liberal  party  of  Upper  Canada  approved  of 
their  three  friends  making  part  of  the  Gov- 
ernment. The  Administration  could  not  give 
a  pledge  that  they  would  carry  the  Confeder- 
ation of  all  the  provinces,  but  they  could 
pledge,  and  did  pledge  themselves  to  bring 
in,  in  the  event  of  the  failure  of  that  scheme, 
a  measure  for  the  federation  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  And,  sir,  not  only  was  this 
promise  made  at  that  time,  but  we  have  since 
seen,  this  session,  the  head  of  the  Government, 
Hon.  Sir  E.  P.  Tachie,  renewing  the  pledge 
then  given  in  these  words : — "  They  arranged 
a  large  scheme  and  a  smaller  one.  If  the 
larger  failed,  then  they  would  fall  back  upon 
the  minor,  which  provided  for  a  federation  of 
the  two  sections  of  the  province."  And  it 
was  expressly  stated  that  during  this  session, 
if  the  present  scheme  failed,  they  should  bring 
in  a  measure  to  federate  the  two  provinces. 
(Hear,  hear.)  That  was  the  promise  given 
to  the  Honorable  President  of  the  Council, 
and,  if  it  is  not  redeemed,  I  fear  his  position 
will  be  a  most  unenviable  one  in  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  T.  C.  WALLBRIDGE— There  is 
another  point,  Mr.  Speaker,  upon  which  I 
desire  to  see  an  understanding  come  to  before 
we  proceed  further  with  this  discussion. 
Honorable  gentlemen  opposite  have  attempted 
by  their  professions  to  manufacture  a  little 
cheap  pocket  loyalty,  and  to  that  end  I  find 
the  most  atrocious  sentiments  expressed  in  this 
morning's  editorial  of  their  organ,  the  Quebec 
Chronicle.     I  will  read  the  paragraph. 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — You  need  not;  we 
have  aU  read  it. 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— It  will  bear  read- 
ing  again  for  the  information  of  the  House. 
It  is  as  follows  : — 

A  telegram  from  New  Brunswick  on  Saturday 
night  says  Tilley  and  Waiters  are  defeated — 
taajority  250.  These  gentlemen  were  the  Con- 
federate candidates  for  the  city  of  St.  John. 
Knowing  the  influences  at  work,  we  are  not  greatly 
surprised  at  the  result ;  but  our  conviction  in  th© 


658 


alternative  of  confederation  or  annexation  is 
more  than  ever  confirmed  when  we  see  how  com- 
pletely American  influence  can  control  elections 
of  the  provinces. 

These  seutimentg  are  calculated  to  introduce 
into  political  discussion  in  this  country  a 
dangerous  element,  a  mischievous  cry.  I 
would  like  to  ask  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West,  who  has  to  some  extent  endorsed  this 
sentiment,  whether  I  was  right  in  under- 
standing him  to  say  that  it  was  the  influence 
exerted  by  American  railway  men  on  the 
elections  which  led  to  the  defeat  of  the 
Confederation  candidates  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— What 
is  that  ? 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— I  understood  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  West  to  state  that  the 
American  railway  influence  had  had  some 
efi'ect  upon  the  St.  John's  elections. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I  will 
repeat  to  the  honorable  gentleman  what  T  did 
say.  It  was  this  :  that  I  had  no  doubt  the  ques- 
tioQ  of  Confederation  was  one  of  the  subjects 
which  influenced  the  people  of  St.  John. 
But  I  did  not  pretend  that  that  was  the  only 
one.  There  were  other  local  questions  which, 
I  have  no  doubt,  had  their  due  weight  of 
influence.  There  was,  for  instance,  the 
usual  struggle  between  the  ins  and  the  outs, 
and  I  presume  there  was  the  influence  to 
be  contended  against  of  those  who  were 
in  favor  of  the  railways  to  the  American 
frontier — the  Coast  Line  or  Western  Exten- 
sion Railway — as  opposed  to  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  interest. 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— I  wish  to  nail  this 
forgery  to  the  counter  before  it  goes  further, 
and  to  that  end  I  desire  to  be  permitted  to 
read  a  few  extracts  from  one  of  the  leading 
papers  in  the  Lower  Provinces  (the  J^ova 
iScotian),  and  which  are  as  follow  : — 

But  not  quite  so  fast,  good  fri  nds.  This  is 
not  the  first  we  have  heard  of  this  "  military  " 
railway.  Last  summer,  a  committee  of  Congress, 
composed  mostly  of  shrewd  New  Englauders, 
came  from  Washington  to  e.xamine  and  report  as 
to  the  expediency  of  constructing  a  "military  " 
road  to  the  frontier  of  New  Brunswick.  They 
were  not  allowed,  however,  to  stop  at  the  fron- 
tier, for  when  they  arrived  there  they  found  an 
invitation  inviting  them  to  go  on  to  St.  Jolui. 
They  went,  and  St.  John  was  in  a  perfect/'Mrore 
of  interesling  excitement.  A  public  meeting  was 
called  ;  we  are  not  sure  whether  Mr.  Tili.ev  was 
present  or  not — we  think  he  was  accidentally 
absent  from  some  inevitable  cause,  but  sent  a 
message  with  his  complimcMits  and  sj  mpathiea. 
The  mayor  occupied  the  chair  }  the  viands  were 
excellent ;  the  champagne  flowed  *'tf  la  Ottawa ;" 


the  speeches  were  eloquent;  and  although  St. 
John  had  but  recently  been  all  in  a  blaze  with 
sympathy  with  the  poor  suffering  Southerners, 
somehow  it  happened — under  what  genial  influ- 
ences we  cannot  say — that  they  managed  to 
create  a  most  agreeable  impression,  not  only  upon 
the  stomachs,  but  upon  the  loyal  hearts,  of  the 
committee  of  Congress. 

But  this  was  not  all.  The  provincial  railway 
was  placed  at  their  disposal  free  of  expense,  and 
they  were  chaperoned  over  it  by  leading  men,  to 
Shediac  and  back  to  St.  John.  Mr.  Tillet,  we 
think,  was  on  this  trip ;  and  after  all  was  over, 
they  went  back  with  a  wondering  appreciation  of 
the  "good  lord,  good  devil"  versatility  of  our 
New  Brunswick  friends. 

Again  the  same  paper  remarks  : — 

The  New  Brunswickers  understand  thia,  and 
with  Mr.  Tillet  at  their  head,  co-operating  with 
the  shrewdest  men  of  New  England,  are  bidding 
in  a  spirit  of  commercial  enterprise  for  the  great 
stream  of  passenger  traffic  across  the  Atlantic, 
which  they  (the  Americans)  desire  to  turn  into 
our  good  city  (Halifax).  Apart  from  all  its 
other  advantages,  they  propose,  it  appears,  to 
purchase  our  railroads,  and  thus  release,  for  our 
disposal  in  other  railways,  the  capital  employed 
in  its  construction. 

In  another  article,  the  same  authority 
places  this  story  about  the  American  inter- 
ference in  the  St.  John  elections  in  a  stronger 
light.  I  will  read  it  for  the  benefit  of  the 
credulous  : — 


Strange  to  say,  we  find  Mr.  Tillet,  not  only 
investing  the  public  funds  of  New  Brunswick  in 
the  construction  of  a  military  road  from  Portland 
to  St.  John  (of  course  only  the  Yankee  end  of 
the  line  is  military),  but  the  delegates  themselves 
have  actually  made  special  arrangements  with 
that  gentleman  to  enable  him,  in  event  of  the 
present  scheme  of  Confederation  being  consum- 
mated, to  construct  the  New  Brunswick  portion 
of  this  pi-oposed  railway.  Now,  we  would  liko 
the  delegates  to  explain  this  little  matter  to  the 
satisfaction  of  the  old  ladies  whom  they  have  been 
frightening  with  horrible  stories  of  Yankee  dev- 
astalions,  smouldering  homesteads,  and  blazmg 
churches. 

In  the  face  of  these  extracts  is  it  not  idle  to 
say  that  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  was  defeated  by 
American  railway  influences?  The  presump- 
tion would  be  the  contrary.  Looking  to  their 
interest  those  shrewd  New  Englanders  spoken 
of  would  have  supported  the  candidate  who 
is  willing  to  invest  the  funds  of  New  Bruns- 
wick in  a  railway  connecting  with  their  line. 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  the  leader  of  the  Now 
Biunswick  Government,  was  defeated,  not 
through  American  influence,  but  because  of 
the  unpopularity  of  the  Foderation     heme. 


659 


as  presented  to  the  people  of  his  province  ; 
and  it  is  wrong  to  introduce  this  new  cry 
into  our  politics.      Canada  has  been  cursed 
with  party  cries,  and  it  is  time  for  us  to  clear 
the  political  arena  of  such  false  issues  and 
dangerous  contests.     To  introduce  this  new 
element  of  discord  can   only  gain   for   its 
promoters   a   temporary   relief,    whilst  the 
damage  it  will  inflict  upon  the  best  interests 
of  the  country  are   positive.      Our  critical 
relations,  at  this  moment,  with  the  American 
people  are  mainly  traceable  to  cries  of  this 
kind.     By  rendering  the   people  suspicious 
of  such  influence,  the  promoters  of  the  cry 
are  hastening  the  accomplishment  of  what 
they  pretend  to  oppose.      Once  render  the 
people  of  this  country  dissatisfied  with  the 
working  of  their  system  of  government,  and 
there  will   be    danger  of  their    continuing 
what  will  then  seem  inevitable.      If  there 
be  any  who  desire  annexation,  they  could 
not  better  forward  their  views  than  by  raising 
the  false  cry  of  American  interference  in  our 
political  contests.    Once  destroy  public  confi- 
dence in  our  institutions,  and  it  is  impossible  to 
predict  what  extremes  may  not  be  resorted  to. 
If  the  Ministry  have  information  of  the  kind 
alleged,  of  an  interference  by  foreigners  in 
the  political  contest   now  going  on  in  New 
Brunswick,  they  are  bound  to  lay  it  before 
the  House.     Such  an  interference  could  not 
be  tolerated,  and  the  country  should  know  the 
truth  of  the  allegation  at  the  earliest  possible 
moment.     If  the  vote  of  credit  asked  for  is 
for  military  purposes,  for  fortifications,  the 
Grovernment  will  find  their  hands  strength- 
ened by  the  support  of  every  hon.  member 
of  this  House.     It  is  not  necessary  to  cry 
loyalty  to  obtain  the  vote,  no  more  than  it  is 
necessary  to  cry  annexation  to  secure  the 
passage   of  an   act  to  unite   the  provinces. 
I  have    been    surprised   at   the    alternative 
that  has  so  often  been  put  by  hon  members, 
— Federation,  or  Annexation.     Yes,  and  by 
hon.  members  who,  in  1858,  helped  to  laugh 
out  of  the  House  the  resolutions  of  the  pre- 
sent Hon.  Finance  Minister,  on  the  ground 
that  if  they  were  carried  and  confederation 
follow,  there  would  be  a  movement  in  the 
direction  of  annexation.     (Hear,  hear.)     I 
ask  where   is   the   consistency  of  the   two 
positions — in  1858   federation  was  a  move 
towards    annexation,    in     1865    it    is    the 
only  measure  that  will  prevent  annexation  ? 
The  language  of  Her  Majesty  and  of  some 
•*  noble    lords"    has   been   referred   to   as  a 
reason  why  this  scheme  should  be  accepted 
without  enquiry.     But  it  should  be  remem- 


bered that  this  is  not   the  first  time  that 
language  has  been  put  in  an  Address  from  the 
Throne,  to  palliate  the  sacrifice  of  the  true 
interests  of  Canada.     We  are  as  capable  of 
judging  here,   on   the   floor   of  this   House, 
what  is  for  the  true  interests  of  the  country, 
as  any  of  the  noble  lords  of  the  realm.     If 
their  speeches   contain  the  sum  of  wisdom 
in  regard  to  our  affairs,  pray  how  is   it  that 
our  frontier  has  been  in  times  past  so  exten- 
sively sacrificed  ?     Every  one  who  has  given 
any  attention  to  the   subject   will  see  that 
under    the    Ashburton  treaty    our    frontier 
was  shamefully  surrendered  to   the  Ameri- 
cans, and  that  it  received  the   sanction  of 
noble   lords  at   home ;    and   now   we   have 
to  build  our  railway  over  the  rocks  of  New 
Brunswick  and  Nova  Scotia,  to  the  seaboard. 
(Hear,  hear.)   This  question  of  Federation  is  a 
question  which  concerns  our  country,  which 
concerns  our  allegiance,  which  concerns  our 
connection  with  the  Home  Government  and 
the  future  of  this  country  ;  and  when  our  in- 
terests are  at  stake,  we  are  the  proper  parties 
to  judge  of  what   is   best.     (Hear,  hear.) 
Therefore,  to  raise  a  false  cry  to  enable  hon. 
gentlemen  on  the  opposite  side  to  carry  out 
their  measure  without  amendment  and  with- 
out consulting  the  people  of  this  province, 
is  unjust  in  practice  and  wrong  in  principle 
It  is   a    dangerous    experiment.     Had  hon. 
members  been  aware   of  the  whole   circum- 
stances of  the  New  Brunswick  elections,  they 
would  perhaps  have  reflected  before  placing 
Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  in  a  false  position. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGrEE — It  is  all  a  mistake. 

Mr.  WALLBRIGE— The  extracts  read 
are  confirmatory  of  this  view.  I  know 
something  of  the  railways  of  New  Brunswick, 
and  I  am  aware  that  a  scheme  was  favored 
by  the  people  of  St.  John  to  extend  their 
railways  to  the  American  frontier,  as  Canada 
has  done  in  several  instances.  It  was  their 
interest  to  connect  with  the  Portland  road, 
just  as  it  was  the  interest  of  Canada  to  con- 
nect the  Grand  Trunk  with  the  road  from 
Montreal  to  Portland.  And  with  Hon.  Mr. 
Tilley  as  the  advocate  of  such  extension,  is 
it  reasonable  to  infer  that  the  American  rail- 
way men  opposed  his  election  ?  The  scheme 
before  us  is  fraught  with  a  job  of  greater 
proportions  than  the  New  Brunswick  people 
ever  thought  of.  The  lurking  influences  of 
the  Grand  Trunk  Railway,  or  of  the  well- 
known  contractors,  who  are  uppermost  vphen- 
ever  this  union  is  spoken  of,  are  at  work. 
(Ministerial  laughter.)  Ministers  may 
laugh,  but  it  is  patent  to  all  that  the  rail- 


660 


way,  by  the  longest  route  it  will  be 
possible  to  find,  is  the  pivot  on  which 
the  scheme  revolves.  If  it  be  the  desire 
to  get  to  the  seaboard,  and  not  to  give 
certain  contracting  firms  a  job,  why  is  not 
the  shortest,  cheapest  and  best  route,  from 
every  point  of  view,  selected  ?  Why  climb 
over  the  mountains  of  the  centre  of  New 
Brunswick,  or  along  the  seacoast,  when  a 
road  can  be  constructed  by  a  better  but 
shorter  route,  for  much  less  money,  by  the 
valley  of  the  St.  John  ?  I  contend  that  the 
route  this  road  is  to  run  should  be  made 
known  to  this  House.  It  is  a  question  in- 
volving the  expenditure  of  millions,  and  if 
the  cheaper  route  be  built,  the  saving  to 
Canada  will  also  be  many  millions  of  dollars. 
I  know  that  certain  honorable  gentlemen  are 
prepared  to  vote  on  this  question  phlegmati- 
cally.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE— What  is  it  to 
vote  phlegmatically  ? 

Mr.  WALLBRIDGE— An  hon.  gentle- 
man asks  me  what  a  phlegmatic  vote  Js  ? 
I  would  inform  him  it  is  to  vote  on  this 
question,  which  so  deeply  concerns  our  fu- 
ture interests,  without  inquiry.  It  will  cause 
some  honorable  gentlemen  to  give  the  lie  to 
their  whole  political  lives.  It  is  to  vote 
away,  without  enquiry,  our  rights  to  the 
North-West  territory.  It  is  to  seal  up  that 
country  hermetically  for  all  time  to  come. 
That  is  what  I  call  giving  a  phlegmatic 
vote.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  find  that  the  re- 
presentatives at  the  Conference  from  Nova 
Scotia  and  New  Brunswick  made  it  a  point 
of  the  proposed  Constitution  to  construct 
the  Intercolonial  Railway,  also  took  good 
care  to  make  the  opening  of  the  North-West 
contingent  upon  the  state  of  the  finances, 
and  the  Confederation  will  commence  life 
with  a  debt  of  §150,000,000.  It  is  evident, 
therefore,  that  the  North-West  is  hermeti- 
cally sealed,  as  far  as  Canada  is  concerned. 
What  shall  we  gain  by  this  particular  scheme 
of  Confederation  ?  We  have  been  running 
with  railway  speed  into  bankruptcy,  and 
this  scheme  is  one  which  will  add  immense- 
ly to  our  debt,  and  especially  to  our  debt  on 
account  of  unproductive  and  useless  rail- 
ways, and  of  which  we  do  not  even  know 
the  route,  although,  now  that  the  elections 
in  New  Brunswick  are  over,  it  cannot  afl^cct 
the  position  in  that  province  to  give  the 
information  we  are  seeking.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  in  favor  of  a  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Provinces.  But  the  union 
that  is  desirablfl  is  a  union  in  fact,  not  an 


organized  system  of  discord,  with  a  number 
of  petty  legislatures  that  will  only  serve  to 
create  strife  and  prevent  our  moving  forward 
in  the  career  of  civilization  and  improvement. 
The  scheme  of  the  hon.  gentlemen,  to  some 
extent,  will  give  us  the  advantages  of  a 
legislative  union,  but  it  is  incumbered  with 
objectionable  details — details  which,  in  their 
importance,  amount  to  principles,  and  to 
secure  their  rejection  or  amendment  I  shall 
employ  what  energy  I  can  bring  to  bear. 
The  scheme  has  been  submitted  to  the 
people  in  New  Brunswick,  and  it  has  there 
been  admitted,  as  well  as  in  Nova  Scotia,  that 
it  was  subject  to  amendment.  Why  should 
Canada  not  have  the  same  right  accorded? 
Why  should  we  take  the  scheme  in  its  en- 
tirety, when  its  authors  cannot  justify  certain 
provisions  which  specially  relate  to  this  coun- 
try ?  It  is  treating  Canada  with  contempt, 
and  hon.  gentlemen  will  be  held  responsible. 
I  have  very  great  confidence  in  several  of 
the  hon.  gentlemen  opposite.  I  have  very 
great  confidence  in  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  and  the  two  other  hon.  gentle- 
men whom  he  took  into  the  Ministry  with 
him.  But,  when  the  Hon.  the  President  of 
the  Council  consented  to  go  into  the  Ad- 
ministration without  getting  a  fair  represent- 
ation in  it  of  the  party  with  which  he  was 
acting,  both  in  Upper  and  in  Lower  Canada, 
he  miscarried.  (Laughter.)  That  may  ac- 
count for  some  of  the  objectionable  features 
of  this  measure.  It  may  account  for  Canada 
consenting,  and  for  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  giving  his  consent,  that  the  voting 
at  the  Conference  should  be  by  provinces, 
instead  of  by  numbers.  They  took  very 
good  care  to  arrange  that  we  should  pay 
according  to  population.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
they  voted  by  provinces,  and  in  that  way 
hampered  thescheme  with  many  objectionable 
details.  And  I  think,  therefore,  it  is  now 
competent  for  this  House  to  criticise  those 
details,  and  to  take  such  steps  as  will  en- 
sure their  exclusion  from  the  Imperial  Act. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  JIOLTON— Before  these  ex- 
planations are  over — and  I  have  no  desire  to 
prolong  them  further  than  is  necessary — I 
would  like  to  ask  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance 
as  to  the  course  to  be  pursued  with  referenc 
to  the  Lower  Canada  School  Law,  which  was 
promised  to  be  introduced  this  session.  We 
are  now  told  a  prorogatioti  is  to  take  place, 
and  I  would  like  to  know  whether  the  pledge 
given  by  the  honorable  gentleman  at  Shcr- 
brooke,  on  behalf  of  himself  and  his  col- 


661 


leagues,  and  renewed  several  times  in  the 
House  since  the  session  commenced,  is 
intended  to  be  carried  out,  or  whether  it  is 
to  be  modified — because  it  must  be  obvious 
that  that  matter  has  an  important  bearing 
on  the  question  of  Confederation,  with  which 
it  has  been  connected  by  honorable  gentlemen 
opposite. 

Hon.  Mr.  GtALT — I  think  the  statement 
made  this  afternoon  by  the  Hon.  Attorney 
Greneral  West  is  perfectly  explicit.  The 
Government  intend  to  ask  for  a  vote  on  the 
resolutions  now  in  the  hands  of  the  Speaker. 
With  regard  to  the  School  question,  the 
Government  are  under  the  same  pledge  as 
they  have  always  been  :  it  will  be  legislated 
upon  by  this  House. 

Hon,  Mr.  HOLTON— This  session? 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT— It  will  not  be  legis- 
lated upon  this  session,  because,  as  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  West  has  stated,  it  is  the 
intention  of  the  Government  to  prorogue  the 
House  at  the  earliest  date.  But  all  the  con- 
ditions connected  with  the  resolutions  will 
be  legislated  upon  as  a  matter  of  course. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON — I  understand,  then, 
that  the  pledge  to  bring  down  that  question 
this  session  is  withdrawn — the  policy  of  tbe 
Government  on  that  point  having  been 
modified  by  the  result  of  the  elections  in 
New  Brunswick. 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — There  is  no  change 
in  the  policy  of  the  Government  on  the  sub- 
ject of  Confederation,  or  any  of  the  other 
measures  connected  with  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— But  the  honorable 
gentleman  must  permit  me  to  recall  the 
nature  of  the  pledge  given  by  himself  and 
his  colleagues  at  Sherbrooke  and  in  this 
House — that  there  would  be  a  bill  brought 
down  by  the  Government  during  this  ses- 
sion of  farliament,  for  the  amendment 
of  the  Lower  Canada  School  laws.  This 
was  repeated  by  the  Honorable  Solicitor 
General  East,  on  behalf  of  the  Govern- 
ment, in  the  course  of  certain  interpellations 
made  on  this  subject  in  the  absence  of  my 
hon.  friend  the  Finance  Minister.  And  the 
conclusion  of  the  whole  matter  now  is,  that 
the  hon.  gentleman  states  emphatically  that 
this  is  not  to  be  done.  The  people  of  New 
Brunswick,  therefore,  among  the  other  mis- 
chiefs they  have  wrought  by  the  free  exercise 
of  their  franchise  in  the  rejection  of  the 
Government  which  undertook,  without  legis- 
lative or  other  authority,  to  enter  into  ar- 
rangements for  revolutionizing  the  country — 
among  other  mischiefs  they  have  wrought 


has  been  this,  that  the  Minister  of  Finance 
and  his  colleagues  conceive  themselves  to  be 
relieved  thereby  of  the  obligations  they 
undertook  to  the  country  and  to  the  House — 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT— No  !  no ! 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  obligations 
they  undertook  to  the  country  and  to  the 
House  to  bring  in  an  amendment  to  the 
Lower  Canada  School  laws  during  this  ses- 
sion of  Parliament.  The  hon.  gentleman 
knows  full  well — none  better  than  he — the 
point  of  these  remarks.  It  may  not  be  ap- 
preciated by  the  House  generally,  especially 
by  the  members  from  Upper  Canada,  but 
the  hon.  gentleman  knows  well  the  impor- 
tance ofit,  and  that  the  English  Protestants  of 
Lower  Canada  desire  to  know  what  is  to  be  done 
in  this  matter  of  education,  before  the  final 
voice  of  the  people  of  this  country  is  pro- 
nounced on  the  question  of  Confederation. 
The  assurances  given  by  the  hon.  gentleman 
led  them  to  believe — and  in  point  of  fact  they 
do  generally  believe — that  that  measure  is  to 
be  brought  down  before  the  final  vote  of  this 
House  is  taken  on  the  ques*^ion  of  Confedera- 
tion. That  is  the  point  of  the  whole  matter. 
And  the  honorable  gentleman  now  tells  us, 
through  his  leader,  that  the  Confederation 
resolutions  are  to  be  put  through  this  session 
immediately,  and  that  commissioners  are 
going  to  England  to  press  legislatioc  founded 
on  those  resolutions,  while  on  the  other  hand 
he  himself,  the  great  Protestant  champion  of 
Lower  Canada,  who  claims  the  confidence 
of  Lower  Canada  Protestants  in  an  especial 
manner,  now  tells  them  that  this  promised 
legislation  is  not  to  be  had  until  next  session 
of  Parliament,  when  it  will  be  too  late  per- 
haps to  petition  this  House,  or  even  to  send 
popular  petitions  to  the  Imperial  Parliament 
against  this  measure.  Therefore  it  is,  I 
repeat,  that  among  the  many  curious  results 
of  the  free  exercise  of  their  franchise  by  the 
people  of  New  Brunswick,  we  have  this, 
that  the  Protestant  champion  of  Lower 
Canada  is  not  going  to  do  that  which  he 
undertook  to  do  on  behalf  of  his  fellow- 
countrymen  and  co-religionists — that  which 
he  promised  this  session,  but  now  postpones 
till  another  session,  when  all  the  circum- 
stances may  be  changed.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT. — I  think  the  interest 
evinced  by  the  hon.  member  for  Chateauguay 
in  this  matter  is  somewhat  remarkable.  I 
feel  grateful  indeed  to  him  for  the  kind  soli- 
citude he  expresses  on  my  behalf,  that  I 
should  cause  no  disappointment  to  the  class 
which  to  a  certain  extent  looks  to  me.    Stil) 


662 


I  think  he  is  guilty  of  rather  a  paltry 
quibble  in  the  statement  he  has  just  made. 
TKe  position  of  the  Grovernment  was  most 
distinctly  stated  by  the  Attorney  General 
West,  and  no  misunderstanding  can  exist 
with  regard  to  it.  It  is  admitted  frankly  that 
the  events  in  Xew  Brunswick  call  for  some 
special  action  by  this  Government,  and  the 
action  which  they  propose  to  take  was  stated 
in  the  most  di-itinct  terms  by  the  Govern- 
ment. As  regards  the  education  question, 
statements  have  been  made  already  as  to  the 
nature  of  the  amendments  which  are  to  be 
proposed  to  the  existing  School  law.  The 
Government  will  unquestionably  take  care 
that  that  law  shall  be  amended  in  the  sense 
of  those  statements  before  the  Confederation 
scheme  finally  becomes  law  in  Canada.  I 
think  no  further  statement  is  necessary.  I 
can  add  nothing  to  the  assurances  which 
have  already  been  given  on  that  subject. 
(Bear,  hear.) 

Hon.  J.  H.  CAMERON— There  is  one 
point  on  which  I  should  like  an  exph.ination 
from  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West.     He 
says  there  will  be  a  vote  of  credit  asked  from 
the  House,  until  the  next  meeting  of  the  Le- 
gislature.    That,  I  suppose,  will  not  be  until 
Julyor  Augu.'^t,  butthe  appropriation  for  the 
services  of  the  volunteer  force  on  the  frontier 
expires  in  May.  W  ill  that  vote  of  credit  include 
the  amount  necessary  to  continue  the  volun- 
teers on  their  present  service,  if  the  Govern- 
ment find  that  they  require  it  to  be  continued 
up  to  a   subsequent  period,  say  the  first  of 
Augrust?     I  should  like  an  answer  to  this 
question,  if  the  Government  have  made  up 
their  minds  on  this  part  of  the  subject.     I 
may  remark,  also,  that  one  cannot  help  feel- 
ing it  to  be  a  matter  of  regret  that  the  pub- 
lic business  of  the  country  could  not  go  on. 
Of   course,    if  the    Government    determine 
that   the    question    of   Confederation  shall 
be  pressed  to    a    speedy    decision   by   the 
House,  and  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gon.  West  and 
other  members  of  the  Government  proceed 
immediately  thereafter  to  the  other  side  of 
the  Atlantic,  it   will  be  necessary  that   the 
House  should  rise,  without  getting  through 
the     ordinary     business     o»     the    country. 
At  the  same  time,  a  few  weeks  more  would 
enable  the   House  to  get  through  all  that 
business,  and  when  we  met  again   in   July 
or  August,  we  would  be  able  to  devote  our 
whole  time  to  the   measures  which  the   Go- 
vernment may  submit  to  us,  as  the  result  of 
the  liiissioD  to  England.     If  thlH  debate  is 


to  be  pressed  as  rapidly  as  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  indicates,  I  have  no  doubt  we  would 
be  able  to  dispose  of  it,  and  also  to  get  rid 
of  the  whole  of  the  public  and  private 
business  on  the  Orders,  so  as  to  allow  the 
prorogation  to  take  place  before  the  first  of 
April.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — I  will  answer  the 
question  put  by  my  honorable  friend  to  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  West.  The  intention 
of  the  Government  is  to  ask  such  a  vote  of 
credit  from  this  House,  as  in  their  opinion 
the  necessities  of  the  country  will  demand, 
until  the  period  when  Parliament  may  again 
be  called  together.  With  reference  to  that, 
I  would  remind  the  House  that  the  ordinary 
supplies  have  been  voted  up  to  the  30th  June, 
and  this  will  have  to  be  borne  in  mind  in 
considering  the  sum  the  House  will  be  asked 
to  vote.  The  Government  will  unquestion- 
ably have  in  view  the  continuance  of  the 
protection  of  the  frontier.  (Hear,  hear.) 
As  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  has  stated 
the  intention  of  the  Government  is  to 
meet  Parliament  again,  so  soon  as  they 
are  in  a  position  to  state  to  them  frankly  the 
views  of  the  Imperial  Government ;  and 
that  of  course,  to  a  certain  extent,  depends 
on  the  time  during  which  they  may  be  de- 
layed in  London  in  getting  a  final  answer. 
But  the  intention  of  the  Government  is  to 
lose  no  time  in  meeting  Parliament  ag-ain. 
(Hear,  hear  ) 

Hon.  J.  S  MACDONALD— I  have  a 
word  or  two  to  say.  The  Government  have 
changed  their  policy  so  quickly,  that  we  can 
now  place  no  reliance  on  the  statements  of 
Ministers  of  the  Crown.  I  have  not  the 
slightest  doubt  that  hon.  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  at  this  moment  contem- 
plate— and  I  ask  the  attention  of  the  House 
to  what  I  am  saying,  because  it  is  a  bold 
statement  i  am  to  make — I  say  '.t  is  my 
deliberate  opinion,  that  if  we  pass  these  resolu- 
tions, the  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
will  go  home  and  find  a  justification  in  Eng- 
land for  manufacturing  a  bill  of  perhaps  an 
entirely  different  character,  that  will  coverall 
points,  and  that  they  will  come  back  and 
force  that  on  the  people  of  this  country  at 
all  hazards,  having  embodied  in  it  what- 
ever regulations  they  please  as  to  schools, 
and  whether  there  shall  be  one  House 
or  two  Houses  in  the  Local  Parliament, 
and  all  other  such  matters.  I  am  satisfied 
that  that  is  their  plan.  They  know 
well  they  cannot  go  to  an  unwilling  people 


b6S 


with  this  scheme — they  dare  not  submit  it 
to  the  country — and  they  propose,  therefore, 
to  steal  a  march  on  the  people,  and  will 
come  back  with  a  bill  manufactured  in 
London,  as  was  done  in  1840,  and  press  it 
on  the  people  of  Canada.  We  know  how  it 
was  in  1852  or  1853,  when  an  act  came 
over  to  us,  making  an  alteration  in  our  Con- 
stitution, with  respect  to  the  increase  of 
representation  in  Parliament,  of  which  no 
one  to  this  day  has  been  able  to  trace  the 
origin.  What  was  done  on  that  occasion 
may  be  done  again.  They  will  be  met  in 
England  by  gentlemen  from  New  Brunswick 
and  Nova  8cotia,  and  they  will  manufacture 
there  a  Constitution  for  the  people  of  Ca- 
nada— which  the  people  of  Canada  will  be 
compelled  to  take,  or  else  expose  themselves 
to  be  called  traitors  and  rebels.  They  will 
come  out  with  the  authority  of  the  Govern- 
ment, and  invoke  the  name  of  the  Queen, 
and  will  attempt  to  impose  the  Constitution 
thus  manufactured  on  all  the  colonies,  stig- 
matising as  traitors  all  who  oppose  them. 
This  is  not  the  first  time  that  that  game  has 
been  played.  Honorable  gentlemen,  failing 
to  obtain  the  assent  of  an  unwilling  people 
here,  will  take  that  course — especially  when, 
as  is  well  known,  the  people  and  Govern- 
ment of  England  are  only  too  anxious  to 
throw  upon  us  a  large  burden  for  the  de- 
fence of  this  country.  Influenced  by  the 
attentions  and  blandishments  they  will  re- 
ceive in  England,  Ministers  will  sacrifice 
our  interests,  and,  as  the  price  of  it,  will 
perhaps  come  back  with  high-sounding- 
titles.     (Laughter.)  " 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— That  has  been 
done  already. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— And  what 
has  been  done  before  may  be  done  again. 
They  will  go  to  England  as  if  armed,  as 
they  suppose,  with  a  carte  blanche  from  the 
people  of  this  country,  because  ot  the  adoption 
of  the  scheme  by  this  House  to  obtain  a  Con- 
stitution, such  as  is  shadowed  forth  in  these 
resolutions — imperfectly  as  they  themselves 
admit — for  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  and  the 
provinces  generally.  The  English  Parliament 
will  say,  "  We  have  here  the  best  intel- 
lects of  the  provinces,  the  leaders  of  both 
parties,  the  men  who  have  played  their  part 
before  the  country  for  the  last  eight  or  ten 
years,  with  the  confidence  of  their  respective 
parties."  But,  if  they  were  to  read  at  the 
same  time  what  these  leading  men  have  in 
that  period  said  of  one  another,  they  might 


well  question  whether  the  men  who  had 
branded  each  other  with  infamy  and  dis- 
grace, were  the  men  lest  fitted  to  unite  in 
framing  a  bill  to  secure  the  peace  and  quiet- 
ness of  this  country — a  measure,  in  the 
language  of  the  hon.  member  for  South 
Oxford  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown),  forever  to  settle 
the  difficulties  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  protest  vehem- 
ently against  these  attacks  on  our  rights.  I 
protest  against  our  being  asked  thus  blindly 
to  vote  away  our  rights  and  liberties.  How- 
ever clever  these  gentlemen  may  be,  we  know 
to  our  cost  what  our  cleverest  financiers 
have  done  and  will  do  again  when  they  get 
out  of  the  reach  of  public  opinion,  for  the 
moment.  When  the  country  got  tired  of 
them,  they  entered  into  this  Coalition  to 
strengthen  themselves.  These  are  the  mea 
who  will  give  us  a  new  Constitution  made  in 
England.  I  do  not  pretend  to  be  a  prophet; 
but  I  ask  you,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  remember, 
that  I  have  declared  now  what  is  my 
deliberate  conviction  as  to  the  game  that 
will  be  played  by  hon.  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BlIOWN— It  does  astonish 
me  that  an  hon.  gentleman  in  the  position 
which  the  hon.  member  for  Cornwall  has 
occupied  for  so  many  years,  should  deliber- 
ately rise  and  make  such  statements  as  we 
have  heard  from  him,  after  the  grave  an- 
nouncement made  from  the  Treasury  benches 
with  the  assent  of  the  Governor  General  of 
this  province.  The  hon.  gentleman  has 
been  told  that  the  Government  intend,  if 
the  House  sanction  this  measure,  to  carry  it 
home  with  the  honest  intention  of  giving 
effect  to  it,  and  of  having  arrangements 
made  with  reference  to  the  other  grave 
matters  which  have  to  be  considered  there. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— What  are 
they? 

UoN.  .Mr.  BROWN— The  question  of 
defence,  and  the  question  of  the  commercial 
relations  between  these  provinces  and  tho 
United  States.  He  has  been  told  that 
it  is  the  intention  that  members  of  the 
Government  should  go  to  England;  that  on 
their  return,  at  the  earliest  possible  moment, 
Parliament  shall  be  called  together  and 
have  submitted  to  it  the  result  of  the  nego- 
tiations. And  after  all  this,  the  honorable 
gentleman  has  the  rashness — I  shall  not  use  a 
harsher  word — to  get  up  here  and  impute 
to  the  whole  members  of  the  Government, 
and  to  the  head  of  the  Government,  who  has 


664< 


sanctioned  the  making  of  this  announcement 
to  the  House — 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  rise  to  a  point  of 
order.  I  ask  if  it  is  in  order  to  bring  before 
the  House  the  authority  and  name  of  the 
Governor  General. 

Mr.  SPEAKER— The  name  of  the  Sove- 
reign cannot  be  introduced  in  this  way,  but 
I  do  not  know  that  the  rule  extends  further. 
Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  am  quite  in 
order.  I  apprehend  it  is  quite  impossible 
that  we  could  have  made  to  the  House  the 
statement  with  regard  to  the  prorogation, 
and  the  intention  of  sending  members  of 
the  Government  to  England,  in  the  way  we 
propose,  unless  we  had  the  direct  sanction 
of  His  Excellency. 

.     Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— You  advised 
him  of  course. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Of  course.     With 
the  duty  we  owed  to  His  Excellency,  it  was 
impossible  we  could  make  such  a  statement, 
without   first    obtaining    His    Excellency's 
sanction.      The  hon.   gentleman   knows    it 
well,  and  when  he  ventured  to  get  up  and 
make  the  rash  charge  that  the  whole  thing 
is   a  trick,   to   get   some    scheme   entirely 
different    from   this    carried    through    the 
Imperial  Parliament,  he  assumes  a  liberty 
that  is  entirely  unworthy   of  a  member  of 
this    House.       (Hear,    hear.)       And  I  can 
tell    the    honorable     gentleman     and     my 
houorable     friend     from     Hochelaga,    who 
are      so      anxious     about      the      position 
which    has    been  taken   on   this    side    by 
myself  and  by  my  hon.  friends  the  Postmaster 
General   and   the    Provincial  Secretary — I 
can  tell  them  that  we  are  quite  alive  to  the 
position  in  which  we  are  placed,  and  that  we 
have  no  fear  with  regard  to  the  course  we  have 
taken,  are  now  taking,  and  shall  continue  to 
take,  till  this  measure  is  brought  to  a  satisfac- 
tory conclusion,  but  we  will  be  able  to  justify 
ourselves  in  the  eyes  of  those  who  placed  us 
here.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.    Mr.    HOLTON— The    statement 
just  made  by  the   Hon.  President  of  the 
Council    is  one,   I  conceive,  of  very  great 
importance,  as  it   puts  a  meaning  on   the 
declaration  made  by    the    Hon.    Attorney 
General  West,  which  some  of  us,  at  all  events 
— myself  among    the   rest — did   not   catch 
when  the   hon.   gentleman   made  his  state- 
ment.    We  are   to  understand   now,  by  the 
declaration  of  the  Hon.    President   of  the 
Council,  that  the  Government  do  not  intend 
to  have  anything  concluded  in  this  wattci: 


of  Confederation  till  the  next  meeting  of 
the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  did  not  say  any- 
thing of  the  sort. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Then  what  was 
the  point  of  attack  on  the  hon.  member 
for  Cornwall '/  That  hon.  member  indicated 
his  fear  and  his  belief  that  a  Constitution 
would  be  framed  in  England,  at  the  instance 
and,  perhaps,  under  the  supervision  of  certain 
of  the  hon.  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury 
benches,  which  would  prove  to  be  utterly  dis- 
tasteful and  unpalatable  to  the  people  of  this 
country.  And  the  Hon  President  of  the  Coun- 
cil gets  up  and  repels  that  with  the  greatest 
possible  indignation.  It  appears  to  me  that, 
if  there  is  any  point  in  his  indignation,  it 
must  be  here — that  some  further  action  is 
to  be  sought  from  this  House  before  any 
effect  is  given  to  the  question  of  Confeder- 
ation. I  take  it,  that  is  the  fair  inference 
from  the  statement  now  made  by  the  Hon. 
President  of  the  Council.  I  ask  whether  that 
is  the  inference  to  be  deduced — whether  that 
is  what  the  hon.  gentleman  meant  ?  (A 
pause.)  The  honorable  gentleman  declines 
to  answer. 

Hon.    Mr.    BROWN— Go  on,  and  finish 
your  speech. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  would  like   an 
answer  now. 

Hon.  Mr.  GAL T— No,  no.     Finish  your 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  honorable 
gentleman  knows  well  that  this  is  not  part  of 
the  regular  debate*.  I  did  not  rise  to  make  a 
speech.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General  West  did 
not  rise  to  make  a  speech.  No  one  has  done 
so.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General,  on  behalf 
of  the  Government,  made  a  statement.  That 
statement  has  led  to  some  observations,  and 
some  enquiries,  that  the  House  might  under- 
stand its  full  purport.  The  regular  debate  is 
to  be  resumed  by  my  houorable  friend  from 
Quebec  (Hon.  Mr.  Alleyn),  who,  having 
moved  its  adjournment,  is  entitled  to  the  floor, 
and  I  should  be  sorry  to  keep  it  from  him, 
by  making  u  f^pcech.  But  I  want  those  points 
to  be  clearly  understood,  for  it  is  in  the  iuter- 
est  of  all  parties  that  they  should  be.  Though 
I  do  not  go  quite  so  far  as  my  honorable 
friend  from  Cornwall  in  his  observations — 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Hear, 
hear. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Though  I  do  not 
go  so  far  as  he  has  done,  yet  I  thought  there 
might  be  some  danger,  but  I  look  upon  the 
istutcwQut  made  by  the  Hon.  President  of  the 


66S 


Council,  and  the  indignation  with  which  he 
repelled  the  charge  of  my  honorable  friend 
from  Cornwall,  as  calculated  to  reassure  the 
House.  And  I  merely  rose  for  the  purpose  of 
asking  honorable  gentlemen  whether  we  are 
really  to  understand  from  the  supplementary 
statement  made  on  behalf  of  the  Government 
by  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council,  that 
the  farther  consideration  of  this  House  is  to 
be  invited  to  all  these  measures — to  the  new 
Constitution  for  the  country,  as  well  as  the 
arrangements  that  may  be  come  to  with 
respect  to  our  defences,  and  with  respect  to 
our  commercial  relations. 

Hon.  Attt.  Ge.v.-  MACDONALD— If  I 
supposed  for  a  moment  that  the  honorable 
member  for  Chateauguay  really  required  an 
answer,  he  should  get  it.  I  have  no  doubt 
the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  would 
gladly  give  an  answer,  if  he  really  thought  he 
had  any  information  to  give  to  the  honorable 
gentleman.  But  no  one  understands  better 
than  the  honorable  member  for  Chateauguay 
the  way  in  which  the  case  was  put.  The 
honorable  member  for  Cornwall  (Hon.  J.  S. 
Macdonald)  rose,  and  in  rather  an  un- 
parliamentary way  —  after  a  statement  had 
been  formally  made  to  inform  the  House  and 
the  country  what  was  the  policy  of  the  Gov- 
ernment— upon  his  honor  declared  his  belief 
that  the  Government  were  not  sincere  in  the 
explanations  they  had  made,  and  that  iheir 
design  was  to  get  a  bill  passed  by  the  Impe- 
rial Parliament,  contrary  to  the  feelings  of 
this  country  and  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  and 
to  force  that  upon  the  people.  That  was  the 
declaration  of  the  honorable  gentleman.  I  do 
not  know  if  he  was  sincere  in  making  it.  He 
seemed  to  be  sincere,  and  pledged  his  honor 
and  his  conscience  to  it.  (Laughter.)  But 
his  doing  so  only  convinces  me,  that,  if  he 
had  been  in  office  himself,  that  is  the  course 
he  would  have  adopted ;  no  such  suggestion 
would  have  risen  to  any  man's  mind,  unless 
he  had  thought  it  a  feasible  one.  (Hear, 
hear.)  For  our  part  we  do  not  consider  such 
a  course  to  be  in  accordance  with  our  position 
in  this  House,  or  in  accordance  with  our 
principles  as  men  of  honor;  and  the  Hon. 
President  of  the  Council  rose  to  repel  the  dis- 
honoring insinuation  with  that  just  indigna- 
tion which  was  felt  by  every  man  who  heard 
it,  and  to  declare  that  the  belief  of  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  was  utterly  untrue,  un- 
founded, and  unwarranted.  But  I  shall  re- 
peat the  anouncement  in  a  way  that  it  may  be 
understood  by  the  hon.  member  for  Cornwall 
— in  language  that  will  be  plain  to  the  meanest 
S5 


capacity —  (laughter)  —  so  that  no  man  can 
mistake  it.       Our  intention   is   to    get    the 
sanction  of  this   House    to    the    Address  I 
have    moved,    and    this    having   been    done, 
the  two  branches  of  the  Legislature  will  have 
given  their  votes  in  favor  of  the   Confedera- 
tion scheme,  and  there  is  the  end  to  that,  so 
far  as  Canada  is  concerned.     We  will  then 
go  over  to  England  with  that  in  our  hands, 
and  will  say  to  the  Imperial  Government : — 
'■'  Canada  has  agreed  to  this.  New  Brunswick 
has  not  agreed  to  it,  and  we  wish  to  take 
counsel  with  the  Imperial  Government  as  to 
our  position.     This  is  the  unmistakable  voice 
of  the  people  of  Canada  through  their  repre- 
sentatives, and  we,  as  representing  the  Gov- 
ernment of  Canada,  which  has  three-fourtLs 
of  the  whole  population  of  the  provinces,  come 
to  consult  with  the  authorities  of  the  Mother 
Country  what  is  best  for  the  interests  of  these 
provinces."      (Hear,  hear.)      We  shall  also 
discuss  the  question  of  defence,  and,  I  have 
no  doubt,  ^^e  shall  be  met  in  a  most  large- 
hearted  and  liberal  spirit  by  the  English  Gov- 
ernment, and  that  England  will  now,  in  jus- 
tice to  Canada,  pledge  herself  to  her  utmost 
resources  in  men  and  money  for  our  defence. 
CHear,  hear.)     Then  there  is  a  third  ques- 
tion— that  of  the  Reciprocity  treaty  ;   and  we 
will  also  take  counsel  with  the  British  Gov- 
ernment as  to  the  best  means  of  treating  that 
subject.    And  the  honorable  gentleman  knows 
—  at  least  he  ought  to  know,  for  I  cannot  an- 
swer for  the  limits  of  his  understanding — that 
we  can  only  discuss  that  through  Imperial 
avenues,  that  we  can  have  no  direct  commu- 
nication in  such,  matters  with  the  American 
Government.    Having  taken  counsel  with  the 
Imperial  Government  on  those  three  poiats, 
we  shall  call  the  House  together  at  the  ear- 
liest period,  I  hope  long  before  the  current 
half-year  terminates,  that  is,  before  the  30th 
June.     We  will  submit  the  result  of  our  mis- 
sion, and  it  will  then  be  before  the  House  for 
discussion.     Though  another  session,  it   will 
be  in  effect  a  continuation  of  this  session,  and 
when  we  have  debated  and  disposed  of  the 
most  pressing  subjects,  we  will  then  take  up 
what  remains  of  the  (Confederation  scheme — 
such  as  the  constitution  of  the  local  govern- 
ments and  the  school  question,  with  regard  to 
which,  as  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  has 
stated,  we  shall  propose  to  carry  out  to  the 
letter  the  pledges  we  gave  at  the  Conference, 
and  which  we  ask  the  House  to  endorse,  and 
hope  it  will.    (Hear,  hear.)     _We  will   also 
submit  the  result  of  our  negotiations  on  the 
question  of  defence,  and  on  all  those  mattei'S 


666 


connected  with  the  relations  between  Great 
Britain  and  the  United  States,  so  far  as  Brit- 
ish America  is  concerned,  and  on  which  we 
are  authorized  to  take  action  by  the  Imperial 
authorities.     We  cannot  know  at  what  stage 
tliC  negotiations  between  the  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment and  the  United  States  Government 
may  have   arrived   when    the   House    meets 
again ;    but   the   result   of    the    mission   of 
those  members  of  the  Canadian  Government 
who    go    home,  will     be     submitted   to    the 
House.    We  shall   lay  before   the  House  all 
that  the   British   Government   resolve  upon, 
after  hearing  what   we   have    to  say    as   to 
the  question  of  Confederation  in  its  general 
aspect,  and  in  its  relation  to  the  position  it 
may  have  assumed   in    the   other  provinces. 
We    shall   then    lay    before  the    House   the 
scheme  of  the  local    governments    for    the 
two  Canadas.     We  shall  lay  before  them  the 
action  necessary  to  be  taken  with  reference  to 
the  School  question,  the  matter  of  defence  and 
the  llcciprocity  treaty.    The  honorable  mem- 
ber for   Cornwall   gets  up,  and,  because   he 
finds    the   Government    are  resolved  to  take 
a  firm  and  proper  course  in  this  matter,  he 
chooses    to    throw    improper    and   insulting 
remarks  across  the  floor.     But  the  House  has 
learned  what  value  is  to  be  attached  to  the 
honorable  gentleman's    statements,    when   a 
little  while  ago  it  heard   him — an  honorable 
gentleiuan  who  professes  to  be  such  a  patriot 
— stating,  with  reference   to  this   scheme,    in 
favor  of  which  a  large  majority  of  the  people 
of  Canada  had  declared,  that  he  had  a  "  mis- 
chievous satisfaction "   in  seeing  it  checked. 
It  was  in  the  same  spirit  of  causeless,  sense- 
less mischief  that  ho  got  up   to   prophecy  all 
sorts  of  improper  conduct  on  the  part  of  the 
Government.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hox\.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  — Whatever 
views  may  be  euteitained  by  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  West  of  my  capacity,  I  sup- 
pose I  have  got  along  in  my  own  way  as  he 
has  got  along  in  his  way.  But  I  think  the 
House  may  thank  me  for  having  obtained  at 
last — notwithstanding  the  castigation  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  has  dealt  out  to  mo,  and 
which  1  hope  I  shall  be  able  to  survive,  as  I 
have  borne  up  heretofore  under  similar  aval- 
anches of  hard  v/ords  about  my  want  of  judg- 
ment, want  of  capacity,  iiud  so  forth — I  think 
the  House  may  tliank  me  for  having  obtained 
ut  last  from  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
the  explicit  statcujcnt  he  has  made,  that  the 
scheme  is  to  come  back  again  for  the  consider- 
ation of  this  House. 

Hon.   Mil.   DOllION  — The    Honorable 


Attorney  General  West  did  not  say  that. 
Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— He  said— if 
not  the  scheme  itself — that  all  the  arrange- 
ments connected  with  it,  as  to  the  local  gov- 
ernments, the  proportions  we  are  to  assume  of 
the  defence  of  the  country,  and  the  School 
question — which  the  Honorable  Finance  Min- 
ister told  us,  but  for  this  untoward  affair  in 
New  Brunswick,  would  have  been  submitted 
before  this  session  closed — that  all  these  things 
will  be  brought  back  and  be  submitted  next 
before  the    Confederation   scheme 


session 


IS 


finally  concluded.  This  was  not  so  explicitly 
stated  in  the  honorable  gentleman's  first  speech, 
I  have  been  accused  of  being  so  unpatriotic  as 
to  take  a  mischievous  pleasure  in  any  check 
upon  the  scheme.  What  I  said  was,  that  I 
had  mischievous  pleasure  in  seeing  that  the 
honorable  gentleman  who  had  charsred  the 
Canadian  Government  with  bad  faith  had  been 
defeated  and  ousted  from  his  place.  And  I 
say  that,  if  this  scheme  were  likely  to  prove 
for  the  advantage  of  the  people  of  this  province, 
no  one  would  rejoice  more  than  I  in  seeing  it 
carried.  But  I  have  always  felt,  and  do  now 
feel,  that  the  Constitution  of  this  country  can 
be  well  worked  out.  I  have  never  given  a 
vote  for  Federation.  I  have  never  given  a 
vote  for  a  legislative  union. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Or  for  annexation. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— No  ;  I  did 
not  sign  the  annexation  manifesto.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)  I  have  not  assented  or 
given  countenance  to  any  scheme  for  changirg 
our  present  Constitution,  and  it  is  not  right 
for  the  honorable  gentleman,  because  I  do 
not  choose  to  assefft  to  this  scheme  without 
knowing  all  the  details,  to  taunt  mc  witli 
being  unpatriotic.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon- 
orable gentleman  would  have  the  House 
to  understand  that  I  was  ignorant  of  the  fact 
that  this  Government  could  not  deal  directly 
with  the  American  Government  with  regard 
to  the  Reciprocity  treaty.  And  yet  in  the 
face  of  this  charge,  he  must  have  known  that 
the  only  record  which  an  Address  of  this 
House  brought  down  the  other  day  was  u 
Minute  of  Council  addressed  to  the  Secretary 
of  State  by  myself  and  colleagues,  ow  the 
subject  of  reciprocity. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— And  what  have 
honorable  gentlemen  opposite  done  since  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— They  have 
done  nothing  since, of  course.  AVe  were  attacked 
by  the  Hon.  I'resident  of  llic  Council  because 
we  did  nothing  with  regard  to  the  liecijjrocity 
ircaty. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  honorable  gen- 


667 


tleman  is  eutirely  mistaken.  He  is  thinking 
of  the  time  when  I  privately  urged  upon  him, 
as  Prime  Minister,  the  necessity  of  taking 
steps,  and  prompt  steps,  for  ascertaining  what 
was  the  mind  of  the  AVashiugton  Government, 
and  whether  or  not  a  new  treaty  could  be 
negotiated.  He  explained  to  me  the  obstacle 
that  stood  in  his  way ;  and,  though  I  con- 
sidered the  difficulties  in  his  way  ought  to 
have  been  overcome,  yet  the  circumstances 
were  such  that  I  never  blamed  him. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— We  did  all 
we  could  in  the  way  of  making  representations 
to  the  Imperial  Government,  And  what  have 
honorable  gentlemen  opposite  done  since  ? 

Hox.  Mr.  brown — We  have  been  acting 
in  the  same  direction  ever  since,  and  I  think 
it  would  have  been  well  for  the  interests  of 
this  country  if  we  had  not  been  fettered  as  we 
have  been. 

^  Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Well,  I  say 
that  this  explanation  of  the  Honorable  Attor- 
ney General  is  more  explicit  and  much  more 
elaborate  than  the  explanation  we  had  from 
hiiii  in  the  first  instance.  In  commenting 
upon  that  first  explanation,  I  hope  I  did  not 
make  use  of  unparliamentary  language.  But 
I  am  entitled  surely  to  draw  deductions  from 
the  announcements  made  to  us  from  the 
Treasury  benches,  and  I  am  not  bound  to 
mince  matters  if  I  feel  alarmed  at  the  conse- 
quences which  may  result  from  the  giving  of 
this  dreadful  blow  to  the  Constitution  we 
have  so  long  lived  under.  It  is  surely  not 
unseemly  that  I  should  feel  keenly  on  this 
subject,  and  that,  before  the  Constitution  to 
wldch  I  am  sincerely  attached  is  swept  away, 
I  should  express  that  indignation  which  I  may 
have  expressed  somewhat  warmly  this  after- 
noon. (Hear,  hear.)  Much  stronger  lan- 
guage has  been  expressed  on  the  floor  of  this 
House,  when  the  motives  of  the  honorable 
gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches  have  been 
questioned  by  honorable  gentlemen  whose 
intellect  perhaps  as  far  transcends  mine  as  day 
outshines  night.  (Laughter.)  But  I  think 
the  country  and  the  House  will  yet  thank  me 
for  stating,  even  in  the  earnest  manner  I  did, 
my  alarm  in  connection  with  this  matter. 
At  all  events,  I  have  a  sincere  belief  in  the 
truth  of  what  I  stated.     (Hear,  hear.) 

_Hox\.  Mr.  DOBION— The  explanations 
given  to-day  by  the  Honorable  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  are  fuller  than  those  at  first  given  ; 
yet  I  am  afraid  that  there  is  still  some  mis- 
understanding. The  Honorable  Attorney 
General  West  stated  that  the  scheme  for  the 


constitution  of  the  local  governments  would 
be  submitted  to  the  House  next  session.  Is 
it  the  intention  of  the  Government,  or  the 
delegation  when  in  England,  to  press  tlic 
scheme  upon  the  Imperial  Government  with- 
out the  concurrence  of  the  Lower  Provinces  ? 
If  the  Lower  Provinces  do  not  come  in,  will 
the  Government  press  the  adoption  of  the 
scheme  so  as  to  apply  it  to  the  two  provinces 
of  Canada  ?  For,  if  I  understood  the  Hon- 
orable Attorney  General  West,  he  said  that 
next  session  they  will  bring  in  the  constitu- 
tions of  the  local  legislatures.  Now,  if  they 
are  not  to  press  the  scheme  at  all,  there  would 
be  no  necessity  for  local  legislatures.     (Hear, 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I  de- 
sire simply  to  state,  as  I  have  said  before,  that 
after  these  resolutions  are  carried,  those  who 
go  to  confer  with  the  Imperial  Government 
will  doubtless  adopt  such  steps  as  they  think 
are  best  suited  to  us.  (Hear,  hear,  and 
laughter.) 

Mr.  BANKIN— I  feel  obliged  to  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Cornwall  if  he  elicited  the 
explanations  just  given,  though  I  cannot  ap- 
prove of  what  he  said  otherwise.     To  me  the 
intelligence  is  most  acceptable.    (Hear,  hear.) 
I  learn  that  it  is  the  intention  of  the  Govern- 
ment to  go  on  without  regard  to  the  action  of 
the  Lower  Provinces,  and  to  press  this  meas- 
ure through  without  being  influenced  by  the 
action  of  New  Brunswick.     I  hold  that  it  is 
common  sense  for  us  to  remember  that  we  are 
considering   the   interests   of  the   people    at 
large,  and  this  scheme,   if  acceptable  to  the 
people  of  Canada,  is  acceptable  to  foui'-fifths 
of  the  people  of  British  North  America. — 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  must  be  evident  to  the  mean- 
est capacity — to  make  use  of  the  words  of  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  West  a  few  min- 
utes ago — that  one  of  two  destinies  awaits  us  : 
cither  we  must  extend  and  strengrthen  British 
influence  and  British  power  on  this  continent, 
or  these  provinces  must,  one  by  one,  be  ab- 
sorbed by  the  neighboring  republic.     (Hear, 
hetjr.)     That  has  been  my  opinion  for  years, 
and  it  is  my  opinion  still.     However,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  simply  rose  for  the  purpose  of 
soliciting  more  distinct  Information  upon  one 
point  on  which  I  have  heard  nothing  said,  al- 
though the  explanations  may  have  been  given 
before  I  came  into  the  House.     I  wish  to 
know  what  is  the  intention  of  the  Government 
with  reference  to  the  volunteers  now  on  the 
frontier, — whether  they   have   provided   the 
means  to  maintain  this  force,  if  required,  be- 
yond the  1st  of  May  next? 


668 


An  Hon.  MEMBER— That  question  has 
already  heen  answered. 

Mr.  RANKIN— I  only  hope  the  Govern- 
ment ^vill  ask  the  House  for  means  to  keep  up 
whatever  force  may  be  thought  necessary,  not 
only  till  June,  but  till  October  if  requisite. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  GIBBS— I  think  that  the  policy  of 
the  Government,  as  announced  to-day  by  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  West,  is  bold,  manly, 
and  straightforward,  and  such  as  will  entitle 
them  to  the  confidence  of  this  House  and  of 
the  country.      (Hear,  hear.)     It  shows  that 
they,  at  least,  are  in  earnest  on  this  great 
question  of  Confederation  which  they   have 
introduced,  and  whatever  may  have  been  the 
opinion  of  the  Opposition  as  to  the  motive 
which   induced  them    to    lay   this   measure 
before  the  House  at  the  opening  of  the  ses- 
sion, I  think  it  must  be  utterly  dispelled  by 
the  announcement  just  made  to  the  House. 
(Hear,  hear.)     If  the  scheme  was  worth  any- 
thing when  the  Government,  in  the  opening- 
Speech  this  session,  declared   its  intention  of 
asking  the  consideration  of  the  House  for  it, 
the  same  scheme  must  be  worth   as  much 
now,  and  I  trust  that  none  of  the  difficulties 
which  may  for  a  moment  interpose,  will  pre- 
vent  the  Administration    from    carrying    it 
tlivough.     (Hear,  hear.)      It  has  been  said 
that  the  measure  which   they   should   have 
brought  down  was  the    smaller   one,   whilst 
they  liave  introduced  the  larger.     Now,  sir,  I 
hold  that  the  greater  always  includes  the  less  ; 
and  that  the   Government,   instead  of  being 
blamed  for  the  course  they  have  taken,  are  en- 
titled to  the  thanks  of  this  House  for  bring- 
ing down  the  more  important  one  at  the  out- 
set.    (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  not  often  that  ques- 
tions of  the  importance  of  that  now  before  the 
House  are  carried  without  considerable  oppo- 
sition.    I  need  only  refer,  as  an  example,  to 
that  of  the  Clergy  Reserves,  during  the  dis- 
cussion of  which  there  were  fights,  fierce  and 
numerous,  lasting  for  many  years,  until  the 
measure  was  carried  at  last.     And  now,  as  we 
are  about  to  obtain  what  Upper  Canada  has 
sought  for  years — representation  by  popula- 
tion— we  find,  unfortunately,  difficulties  inter- 
posing;  but     I   hope    that    notwithstanding 
these,  the  Government  will  not  lalter,  but  will 
carry  out  the  wish  of  the  majority  of  the  mem- 
bers of  this  House  and  of  the  people  of  the 
country,    and    consummate    the    scheme    of 
uniting    the   British  North   American   Pro- 
vinces.    (Hoar,  hoar.)     I  am  very  happy  to 
find   that  the  Government   have  taken   into 
consideration  the  negotiations  on   reciprocal 


trade  with  the  United  States.  That  is  a  most 
important  question,  and  I  should  have  been 
glad,  for  that  alone,  if  the  Confederation 
scheme  had  been  carried  out  successfully, 
because  it  would  have  been  much  easier  to 
discuss  the  matter  through  the  British  Gov- 
mcnt  by  means  of  representatives  from  the 
General  Confederacy,  than  by  representatives 
from  the  various  disunited  provinces.  Now 
I  say,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  course  the  Gov- 
ernment have  pursued  must  inspire  confidence 
in  them  on  the  part  of  their  supporters,  and  I 
believe  that  the  country  will  approve  of  it  too. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  hope  they  will  relax  no 
efibrt  to  see  the  scheme  carried  to  completion. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Dr.  PARKER- If  I  understand  cor- 
rectly the  statement  just  made  by  the 
Government,  they  propose  to  send  a  delega- 
tion to  England  for  the  purpose  of  discussing 
the  three  questions  of  the  Reciprocity  treaty,, 
the  defences,  and  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion now  before  the  House.  The  Hon. 
Attorney  General  says  that  the  question  of 
the  defences  is  very  pressing,  and  that 
immediate  action  should  also  be  taken  with 
regard  to  the  Reciprocity  treaty.  If  these 
subjects  are  so  pressing,  they  should  be  dealt 
with  at  once,  irrespective  of  whether  this 
scheme  is  carried  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.)  A 
period  of  constitutional  changes  is  most 
unftvorablo  for  the  proper  consideration  of 
these  questions ;  and  if  the  necessity  is  as 
urgent  as  represented,  they  should  be  taken 
up  and  considered  at  once,  even  in  advance 
of  Confederation.  Earl  Russell,  then  l^ord 
John  Russell,  wasseverely  ridiculed  by  the 
British  press  because  he  introduced  a  R(;form 
bill  during  the  Crimean  war.  I  deprecate 
most  strongly  the  attempt  made  to  coerce 
constitutional  changes  upon  this  House 
and  the  country  uuder  the  pressure  of 
danger  and  coujing  war.  (Hear,  hear.) 
He  is  no  friend  of  Canada  who  is  constantly 
creating  alarm  and  raising  the  cuckoo  cry 
of  loyalty.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  Govenimcut 
was  lormcd  for  the  cxpre.'^.s  purpo.-o  of  dis- 
covering a  remedy  for  our  coiistitutional 
difficulties,  and  I  liold  tl.cm  to  that  engage- 
ment. This  scheme  is  to  unite  the  whole  of 
the  British  North  American  Colonies ;  and 
il"  the  treaty  is  adopted  by  the  Imperial 
Government,  if  an  Imperial  Act  is  passed 
on  the  basis  of  these  resolution.s,  and  the 
Maritime  Provinces  persist  in  their  present 
refusal  to  come  in,  in  wlial  posilion  are  we 
then  placed  ?  Is  this  phui  of  Fedeiaiiou  to 
be  applied  to  the  two  Cauadas  ?    Sir,  this  ia 


669 


not  the  constitutional  remedy  we  desired 
and  sought  ?  And  I  ask  the  House  if  it  is 
prepared  to  accept  this  union  for  ourselves  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  think  that  the  Government 
should  have  confined  themselves  simply  to 
the  cotistitutional  question,  and  should  Bot 
have  tacked  on  to  it  our  commercial  and 
defensive  relations,  for  the  purpose  of  ob- 
trining  a  little  prestige.  They  have  not 
put  the-  question  before  Parliament  fairly, 
or  as  it  has  been  placed  before  the  legis- 
latures of' any  of  the  other  provinces.  I 
think  the  House  should  look  at  the  question 
in  this  way  —  is  an  Imperial  Act  to  be 
passed,  establishing  a  Confederation  of  the 
two  Canadas  on  the  basis  of  these  resolu- 
tions ?  ]  am  not  prepared  to  accept  that  as 
the  constitutional  remedy.  I  do  not  want 
it  in  that  lorm.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— The  hon.  gentleman 
who  has  just  sat  down  says  that  we  have 
put  this  question  before  the  House  as  it  has 
not  been  put  in  any  of  the  other  provinces. 
Now,  my  information,  which  perhaps  is  as 
correct  as  his,  leads  me  to  believe  that  the 
.same  course  has  been  pursued  here  as  has 
been  or  v/ill  be  adopted  in  three  of  the  other 
provinces — Newfoundland,  Prince  Edward 
Island,  and  Nova  Scotia.  The  last  inform- 
ation received  shows  that  there  is,  as  I  am 
informed,  a  fair  chance  of  the  resolutions 
being  adopted  iu  Newfoundland.  In  Nova 
Scotia  the  resolutions  were  brought  down  by 
the  Provincial  Secretary,  and  it  was  then 
stated  that  the  adoption  of  the  resolutions 
would  be  moved,  on  a  future  day.  So  Dr. 
TuPPER,  the  Provincial  Secretary,  stated. 

Dr.  PARKEPt— Head  His  Excellency's 
Speech; 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — Well,  it  was  a  very 
proper  one.  But  the  hon.  gentleman  will 
see  that  out  of  the  four  provinces  he  is  wrong 
in  regard  to  three  of  them.  Then,  my  hon. 
friend  the  member  for  North  Hastings  (Mr. 
T,  C.  Wallbridgk)  repudiated  the  idea 
that  American  influence  had  anything  to  do 
with  the  result  of  the  elections  iu  New 
.Brunswick.  Now,  I  may  say  to  my  hon. 
jrieud  that  one  of  the  successful  candidates 
is  the  agent  of  the  American  line  of  steamers 
— the  International  line — which  does  all  the 
carrying  trade  to  New  jJrunswick  ;  and  there 
is  not,  1  am  told,  a  pound  ol  the  stock  of 
that  company  i.eld  iu  New  Brunswick. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Does  any  one  suppose  that 
the  influence  of  that  company  was  not  used 
for  his  election  ?     Both  steamboat  and  rail- 


way, and  mining  and  fishery  influences  were 
brought  to  bear ;  and  I  think  it  will  not  be 
saying  too  much — and  I  have  no  hesitation 
in  saying,  for  my  part — that  in  that  portion 
of  the  country,  as  well  as  in  others,  that  the 
fight  was  between  parties  pro-Yankee  and 
pro-British.  It  was  a  fair  stand-up  fight  of 
Yankee  interests  on  the  one  side  and  Briti.sh 
interests  on  the  other ;  and  those  who  are 
here  ungenerously  and  unwisely  rejoicing  over 
the  defeat  of  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  are  in  reality 
rejoicing  in  the  triumph  of  Yankee  interests. 
I  state  this  from  the  knowledge  I  have 
obtained  from  ten  difi'erent  visits  to  that 
country,  and  I  am  quite  sure,  if  my  hon. 
friend  had  been  there  all  the  times  that  I 
have  been,  and  had  the  same  opportunities 
for  observation,  that  he  would  understand  that 
there  are  influences  there  quite  apart  Irom  the 
real  merits  of  Conlederation.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Among  other  cries,  Hon.  Mr.  Tili.ey  was 
assailed  because  it  was  said  that  Hon.  Mr. 
Macdonald  had  stated  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  could  not  be  made — as  of  course  a 
railway  could  not  be  made — a  part  of  the 
Constitution.  That  is  a  sample  of  the  cries 
against  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley,  In  fact,  it  was  a 
contest  between  prejudice  and  patriotis.u;  be- 
tween ignorance  and  intelligence ;  between 
Yankee  influence  and  the  broad  principles 
ol  British  North  American  policy. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Those  who  rejoice  over  that 
state  of  things  may  congratulate  themselves 
if  they  choose,  but  it  is  for  us  to  stand  by  the 
true  public  opinion  of  the  country ;  it  is  for 
us  to  show  an  example  of  firmness  and  good 
faith  in  carrying  out  this  scheme ;  it  is  for 
us  to  show  the  rest  of  the  Empire  that  wo 
are  determined  to  adhere  to  our  original 
resolution,  and  that  we  are  not  a  people  who 
do  not  know  our  own  minds  for  three  weeks, 
and  make  proposals  one  day  or  one  week  to 
breathe  them  down  the  next.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  am  sure  if  my  honorable  friend  from 
North  Hastings  only  knew  that  country  as 
well  as  I  do,  that  he  would  come  to  the  same 
conclusions. 

After  the  recess, 

Hon.  Mil.  ALLEYN  said — Mr.  Speaker, 
those  whose  fortune  it  has  been  to  sit  since 
1851  in  the  reformed  Legislature  of  Canada, 
have  had  to  deal  with  and  setile  matters  of 
the  highest'  importance  to  the  province. 
Questions  which  in  other  and  older  lands 
have  loo  eued  the  bonds  of  society,  have 
caused  bloodshed  and  almost  led  to  anarchy, 
such  as  our  Seigniorial  Tenure  and  Clergy 


670 


Reserve  Acts,  have  been  finally  and  peace- 
ably disposed  of,  not  possibly  without  injus- 
tice to  a  few,  but  certainly  to  the  satisfaction 
cf  the  community  at  large.    Yet  all   those 
things,  though   of  the  greatest  importance 
to    us   in    Canada,  sink   into  insignificance 
in   comparson   with   that   now  before  this 
House.     While    they   related    to   our    own 
affairs    only,    and    were    designed    to    pro- 
mote   the    peaceful   working    of  our   own 
province,    the    question    which    we    have 
now  to  pronounce  upon  concerns  and  relates 
to  a  Constitution    for   all   the   provinces   of 
British  North  America,  and  for  a  country 
which  may  eventually  comprise  half  a  con- 
tinent, and  extend  in  one  unbroken  chain 
from   the   Atlantic   to    the   Pacific  Ocean. 
(Cheers.)     But  although  the  consideration 
of  this  great  question  has  consumed  a  good 
deal    of    the    time    of    this    House,    and 
though  it  is  one  of  such  great  importance, 
and   so    wide    in    its    extent    that   it    does 
not  excite  those  strong  'personal  and  party 
feelings  in  the  minds  of  honorable  members 
which  much    less    important    questions,   of 
a  more  local  nature,  generally  excite,   still, 
sir,    I    think    there    is  no    one    who    looks 
at  the  future  of  this  country  for  which  we 
are  called  upon  to  act,  who  can  avoid  coming 
to   the  conclusion  that  the  question  is  one 
deserviug  of  so  much  deliberate  considera- 
tion at  our  hands,  that  no  amount  of  time 
can  be  considered  wasted   in   debating  and 
deciding  upon  it.    Yet  Mr.  Speaker,  this 
is  no  new  question.     It  has  been   brought 
up  several  times  in  Parliament,  and  before 
the   people,    and   has    occupied   the   atten- 
tion of  our  ablest  men,  more  or  less,  for 
the   past  forty   or   fifty  years.     It  has  been 
presented,  theoretically,  to  the  minds  of  the 
public   of  every  province  in  British  North 
America,  in  articles  and  pamphlets  that  have 
been  written  upon   it ;  but  now  for  the  first 
time,   by  an    extraordinary  combination  of 
events  such  as  may  never  occur  again,  it 
presents  itself  to  those   empowered  to  deal 
with   it  practically  and   to   give  it  life  and 
vitality.  (Hear,  hear.)    We  have  a  great  re- 
sponsibility resting  upon  us  with  reference  to 
the  decision  we  shall  come  to  on  this  impor- 
tant   question.     When    I    say    that    there 
has  been  an  extraordinary  combination   of 
events,  I  think  not  the  least  extraordinary  was 
the  coming  together  of  the  leading  men  from 
all  parts  of  the  provinces,  entertaining  widely 
differcn*  and  hostile  views,  yet  determining 
to  keep  those  views  in  abeyance  while  they 


devised  a  scheme  for  the  benefit  of  our  com- 
mon country.  When  before  has  the  spectacle 
been   witnessed  of   the  leaders  of  adverse 
political  camps  surrendering  that   advantage 
which  a  resistance  to  any  great  change  must 
always  give  in    party   politics,    and  meeting 
together  to  settle  upon  a  coratnon   ground  of 
action  ?    This   we   saw  lust  summer  in    the 
meeting  ofthe  delegates  from  all  the  provinces. 
Many  of  these  gentlemen  must  have    known 
that  they  risked  their  political  positions,  and 
we  now  know  it  in  a  practical  way.    But  far 
better  for  a  public  man  to  be  defeated  in   a 
great  cause  than   to  succeed  in  a  bad  one. 
(Hear,  hear.)     We   cannot   look    upon   the 
action  of  those  men   without  conceding  to 
them,  first  of  all,  a  great  amount  of  credit  for 
the  honorable  and  patriotic  spirit  which  they 
evinced.     Whatever   views  wo  may  hold   of 
their  judgment,  it  must  be  conceded  on  all 
hands  that  their  conduct    deserves   a  high 
meed  of  praise.     (Hear,   hear.)     But  when 
we  sec   this  question   taken   up   in   all    the 
provinces,  and  receiving  so  miicli    attention 
in  England,  and  even   in  other  portions    of 
Europe,  in  so  short  a  period  of  time,  I  think 
we  must  feel  that  there  must  be  some  great 
overruling  cause   at  work  to  induce    so  vast 
an  amount   of  attention  to  be  given    to    the 
subject.     I    have   examined    the    questi    a 
carefully  in    this  aspect,  and   I   venture    to 
express   an    opinion   respecting    the  cause, 
by   reference   to  the    history  of   nations.     I 
recollect  in  a  speech  from  Lord  Macau  lay, 
in  addressing   the  University   of  Aberdeen 
I  think  it   was,  speaking  of  the  events   of 
3848,  the  remark  occurs  that  since  the  inva- 
sion ofthe  Huns  civilization  never  ran  such 
risks   as  in  that  year.     (Hear,  hear.)     Its 
dangers  passed  away,  but  the  results  remain. 
The  wave  which    threatened   to   submerge, 
obeying  a  natural  law,    retired    beyond  low- 
water  mark,  and  has  left  exposed  more  thau 
one   coast.     Small   nations    seem    not  to  be 
considered,  the  faith  of  treaties  is    laughed 
at,  and  in  this  boasted  age  of  civilization  the 
doctrine    that    might    is    right    prevails    as 
strongly    as    in    the   scventccntli    century. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  Danes,  a  brave  and  vir- 
tuous people,  have  been  exposed  to  a  hopeless 
war  with  Austria  and. Prussia,  chiefs  of  the 
Teutonic  race,  while  England  and    France 
remonstrated,  by  words  and   proto  cols,  but 
acted  not.  The  iron  heel  of  Russia  has  crushed 
out  the  lust   sparks  of  freedom  in    Polauil  — 
loiig-sufforing    l*oland,   for    whom  so    muoh 
scaiimeut  has  been  expended,  and   free  Eu- 


671 


gland  and  generous  Prance  stood  silent 
lookers  on.  (Hear,  hear.)  From  the  Caucasus 
we  have  had  the  exodus  ofa  nation  from  the 
land  they  defended  for  centuries,  in  bitter 
pilgrimage,  losing  thousands  and  tens  of 
thousands  on  the  way,  to  seek  in  the  wilds 
of  Asia  for  subsistence  and  freedom.  On  this 
continent  the  great  nation  which  adjoins  us 
has  resorted  to  the  bitter  arbitrament  of  the 
sword,  and  an  internecine  and  deplorable 
combat  is  being  waged  on  a  scale  unknown 
since  the  llussian  campaign  and  the  great 
Napoleonic  wars.  These  things,  according  to 
the  stern  rules  of  statecraft,  may  be  right, 
and  nations  possibly  cannot  break  the  hard 
law  of  non-intervention  ;  but  when  we  see 
such  events  passing  around  us,  must  we  not 
come  to  the  conclusion  that  power  must  of 
necessity  increase  and  encroach,  or  that  it  is 
as  unreasonable  novv^  as  it  ever  has  been,  and 
that  pure  justice  and  abstract  right,  without 
armedbattalions  to  support  them,  will  neither 
preserve  integrity  of  territory  nor  secure  pro- 
tection of  person.  Again,  in  the  discoveries  in 
the  arts  and  sciences,  we  can  perceive  how 
much  the  power  oi  great  states  have  become 
increased  as  compared  with  the  smaller  ones. 
The  telegraph  has  annihilated  time,  railroads 
and  steamers  have  devoured  space.  War  can 
only  be  waged  by  nations  possessing  vast 
resources  in  money,  warlike  engines  and 
materials.  One  iron-clad  man-of-war,  with 
her  complement  of  Armstrong  guns,  would 
cost  the  year's  revenue  of  a  province.  (Hear, 
hear.)  And  if  we  look  around  us  we  see  this 
principle  of  territorial  aggrandizement,  this 
gathering  together  of  the  disjecta  memtra  of 
nations  ;  this  girding  up  of  the  loins  of  em- 
pires for  coming  events  is  steadily  carried 
out.  The  principle  of  centralization  is  ra- 
pidly going  on,  is  pressing  together  the  great 
nations,  aadrendering  it  necessary  for  smaller 
nations  and  provinces  to  unite,  and  cen- 
tralize for  their  common  defence.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  subject  is  not  one  of  theory, 
but  of  fact.  Look  at  Italy,  such  a  short  time 
ago  a  weak  and  scattered  congeries  of  states, 
now  united  into  one  powerful  government. 
Victor  Emmanuel  is  King  of  some  twenty- 
five  millions  of  people  ;  France  has  Nice 
and  Savoy  and  possibly  a  portion  of  Central 
America  ;  Prussia  and  Austria  have  robbed 
Denmark;  Russia  has  absorbed  the  Caucasus 
and  is  advancing  into  Central  Asia  ;  Mexico 
is  springing  into  a  powerful  empire ;  the 
United  States  are,  in  men  and  the  materials 
of  war,  showing  a  power  which  the  world  has 
seldom  seen  excelled.    Such  things  passing 


round  us,  it  would  ill  become  us  not  seriously 
to  consider  our  position,  and,  if  possible,  profit 
by  the  occasion.  (Cheers)  What  I  have 
already  said  applies  to  all  the  provinces  and 
to  all  small  powers  ;  but  we  in  Canada  have 
had  peculiar  difficulties  of  our  own.  Usually 
great  questions  strengthen  governments. 
Aaron's  rod  swallows  up  the  rods  of  the  magi- 
cians ;  but,  though  we  have  settled  great  ques- 
tions, ourgovernments  have  fallen  likehouses 
of  cards.  Coalition  and  party  governments 
alike  have  met  the  same  fate,  and  it  had 
become  seriously  to  be  considered  as  to 
whether  responsible  government  was  not  a 
failure  in  Canada.  Before  the  cry  for  an 
increased  representation  for  Upper  Canada, 
several  of  our  best  public  men  were  driven 
from  political  life  ;  and  it  must  have  become 
clear  to  those  who  watched  events  that  there 
must  soon  have  been  a  readjustment  of  the 
representation  based  partly,  at  least,  oa 
numbers,  or  a  dissolution  of  the  union.  I 
think,  sir,  that  those  who  have  read  and 
profited  by  the  events  of  the  past,  and  have 
considered  what  is  likely  to  occur  in  the 
future,  must  be  satisfied  that  a  repeal  of  the 
union  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
would  be  a  very  great  misfortune.  And  as 
to  representation  according  to  population, 
the  appeals  to  prejudices  and  passions,  and 
possibly  well  grounded  fears  which  must 
result  from  granting  that  to  Upper  Canada, 
would  be  must  disastrous.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  should  have  had,  in  Lower  Canada, 
a  very  large  amount  of  discontent  and 
even  disafi'ection  ;  and,  therefore,  I  con- 
sider it  a  great  advantage  to  Canada  that 
the  adoption  of  Confederation  will  meet  these 
difficulties  without  causing  the  discontent 
and  disaffection  which  either  of  the  above 
measures  would  inevitably  arouse.  (Hear.) 
But,  sir,  I  may  be  asked,  will    these    pro- 


great 


power 


vinces,  if  united,  become 
Sir,  I  shall  frankly  answer  that  1  think 
not  at  present,  nor  will  I  venture  to  predict 
what  the  future  has  in  store  for  us  ;  but  I 
think  thereby  we  obtain  a  greater  chance  of 
obviating  the  evils  to  which  I  have  referred, 
and  we  in  Canada  shall  also  overcome  our 
peculiar  difficulties  —  and  this  I  say,  that 
united,  we  shall  possess  advantages  which 
separate,  though  portions  of  the  same  empire, 
we  cannot  realize.  (Cheers.)  We  shall  be 
one  to  deliberate,  to  decide  and  to  act.  We 
shall  have  but  one  tariff;  trade  will  be  un- 
shackled, our  intercommunication  will  be 
unbroken,  the  Lower  Provinces  "will  give  us 
a  seaboard,  while  the   manufacturing  capa- 


67^1 


cities  of  Lower  Canada  and  the  ogricultural 
wealth  of  Upper  Canada  will   bo  their=.    A 
worthy  field  will  he  opened  for  the  ambition 
of  our  young  men,  and  our  politicians  will 
have  a  future  before  ibem,  and  may  luirly 
aspire  to  the  standing  and  rewards  of  state- 
men.  (Cheers.)    i  therefore  think  it  cannot 
but  be  a  very  great  advantage  to  all  the 
provinces  to  be  united  together,  and  I  think 
that  we  in  Canada  especially  have   peculiar 
reasons  for  desiring  Confederation.  If  united, 
with   the   assistance   of  Great   Britain,  and 
true  to  ourselves,   not  calling   on  Jupiter 
without  putting  our  shoulders  to  the  wheel, 
we  need  fear  no  foe,  and  if  the  day  should 
come  when  it  shall  be  necessary  for  us  to 
stand  among  the  nations  of  the  earth,  we 
shall   do  so  under   far   more  favorable  cir- 
cumstances than  should  we  remain  till  then 
separate  provinces.  (Hear,  hear.)    I  forbear 
to  criticize  the  details  of  the  scheme  ;  in 
the  nature  of  things  one  portion  or  another 
must  be  displeasing  to  each  of  us  ;  but  I  am 
ready  to  accept  the  lesser  evil  for  the  geater 
good.     I  know,  too,  when  worked  out   the 
united  I'arliament  will  alter  and  amend  a^ 
the  evils  become  serious.     Holding   these 
opinions,  it  is  needless  for  me  to  say  that  I 
shall  vote  for  the  Address  and  the  resolutions 
unchanged.     On   Friday  night  I  heard  an 
hon.  member  (Col.  Haultain)  declare  that 
the   Protestant  minority   of  Lower  Canada 
entertained    apprehensions  with    regard    to 
their     religious     liberty,     and     thai     hon. 
member   expressed  giave  doubts  as  to  the 
toleration  of  Catholics  in  matters  of  I'uligion. 
While  I  give  the  hon.  gentleman  full  credit 
for  his  sincerity  and  the  teiiiperatc  manner 
in  which  he  expres.sed  himself,  i  think  it 
would  have  been  far  better  had  that  portion 
of  his  speech  been  omitted.     It  would  cer- 
tainly  have  had  much  greater  weight  with 
the  country  without  that  portion  than  with 
it.    I  do  not  believe  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Canada  fear  persecution,  and  there  are  those 
in  this  House,  their  natural  representatives, 
yielding   to   none  here  in  talent  and  know- 
ledge, well  able  to  speak  for  them.     Hut, 
sir,    had   the   hon.  gentleman   read  history 
as  carefully   as   he  seems   to   have   studied 
polemics  and  tht^ology,  he  would  not  have 
fa  icn    into  the  error    into   which    he    ha.s. 
II J    would    have    found    that    all    sects    of 
C  ristians  have  had  reason  to  blush  for  the 
pereecutions   of  their  fellow-men,    and  that 
the   bust   course   we   can  pursue  is  to  allow 
the  veil  to  fall  over  the  errors  of  the  past. 


'Hear,  hear.)  But,  sir,  he  would  have 
learned  this,  also,  that  those  who  laid  the 
foundations  of  the  British  Constitution  were 
Koman  Catholics  ;  that  the  barons  who 
wrung  the  majna  charta  from  King  John 
were  Catholics.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  was  a 
Catholic  Parliament,  the  Diet  of  Hungary, 
that  alone  granted  full,  free,  unrestricted 
and  unqualified  emancipation  to  Protestants, 
and  Catholic  Bavaria  has  followed  the 
example.  In  America,  the  Catholic  State 
of  Maryland  first  adopted,  withoul  limit, 
religious  toleration.  Had  the  hon.  member 
visited  Rome  he  might  have  seen  a  Protest- 
ant Church,  and  have  attended  service 
every  Sunday  in  the  year  under  the  eyes  of 
the  Pope. 

Mr.  T.  C.  WALLBRIDGE— There  is  no 
Protestant  Church  in  Rome.  I  have  been 
there,  and  speak  from  personal  knowledge. 
Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN  —  It  is  not  in  a 
central  place,  but  it  is  in  Rome  as  properly 
understood. 

Mr.  T.  C.  WAT,LBRIDGE— It  is  not  in 
the  city  proper.  It  is  outside  the  gates,  in 
a  garret. 

Hon.  Mr.  ALLEYN — Not  in  a  garret, 
though   the   church   is  not   attractive,  but 
there    is   full    tolerance    in    respect   to    the 
service.     But  this  is  only   a  little  incident 
growing  out  of  the    remarks    of  the   hon. 
member  for  Peterborough,     In  making  the 
observations  I    have,   I    trust   he   will   not 
think  I  have  intended  to  say  anything  ttiat 
might  prove  personally  disagreeable  to  him 
or  to  any  hon.  member,  because  the  manner 
in  which  he  stated  his  propositions   to  the 
House  was   all  that  could   be  expected  or 
desired    from    an     lion,    gentleman    of   his 
position,  and    I    should    be    very   sorry    to 
say  anything  that  would  be  considered  offen- 
sive.    My   hon.   friend  asked  me  if  I  ever 
went   to    church.     In    reply    I   would  say 
that  I  only  go   when  I  can   be   sure   the 
preacher    is    a    properly   admitted    clorg}'- 
man.     Had  the  hon.  gentleman  travelled  in 
France,  he  might  have  found  the  Prot.^stant 
clergyman  received  from  the  state  an  allow- 
ance  of  one-fifth    more    than    his    Catliolic 
brother,  on  tlie  ground  that  he  may  have  a 
lamily   to   support.     In    Lower   Canada    a 
Catholic    Legislature    gave    equal   right.s  to 
Jews  a  generation  before  enlightened  Eng- 
land emancipated  Catholics.     (Hear,  hear.) 
And,  sir,  the  history   of  the  Jews   gave  a 
terrible   warning  to  all   who   persecute  for 
belief's  sake.     Th«y,  God's  own  people,  set 


673 


that  bad  exemple.  For  belief  they  crucified, 
and  during  a  thousand  years  for  belief  they 
were  oppressed  and  wronged  as  no  nation 
ever  suffered.  Sir,  it  has  not  been  by  perse- 
cution that  while  all  other  denominations  of 
Christians  scarcely  number  120,000,000,  the 
members  of  the  Roman  Catholic  Church  are 
at  least  150,000,000.  Had  her's  been  a  rule 
of  intolerance  and  persecution,  by  an  inevit- 
able law  they  would  long  ere  this  have  caused 
the  destruction  of  that  which  used  them,  and 
Macaulay  would  not  have  been  obliged  to 
write  with  regret,  as  he  admits,  that  the 
Church  of  Eome, — 

As  she  saw  the  commencement  of  all  the 
governments  and  of  all  the  ecclesiastical  esta- 
blishments that  now  exist  in  the  world,  there  is 
no  assurance  that  she  is  not  destined  to  see  the 
end  of  them  all.  She  was  great  and  respected 
before  the  Saxon  had  set  foot  in  Britain,  before 
the  Frank  had  passed  the  Rhine,  when  Grecian 
eloquence  still  flourished  in  Antioch,  when  idols 
were  still  worshipped  in  the  temples  of  Mecca. 
And  she  may  still  exist  in  undiminished  vigour 
when  some  traveller  from  New  Zealand  shall  iu 
the  midst  of  a  vast  solitude  take  his  stand  on  a 
broken  arch  of  London  Bridge  and  sketch  the 
ruins  of  St.  Paul. 

In  reading  this  extract  and  bringing  it  to 
bear  in  this  connection,  I  hope  my  hon. 
friend  will  not  think  I  intended  to  shock 
his  feelings  by  alluding  to  an  early  fall  of 
London  Bridge,  or  a  speedy  decay  of  the 
cathedral  of  St.  Paul.  (Laughter.)  I  quote 
this  passage  alike  for  its  novelty  as  knowing 
it  will  be  particularly  agreeable  to  my  hon. 
friend  the  member  for  Peterborough.  I  can 
assure  my  hon.  friend  the  feeling  per- 
vading the  Catholics  of  Lower  Canada  is  a 
disposition  to  give  the  utmost  tolerance  to 
all  religious  sects.  For  my  part,  Mr. 
Speaker,  persecution  for  religious  belief  I 
know  to  be  a  crime  against  humanity,  and  I 
therefore  believe  it  to  be  a  sin  against  the 
Creator.  I  have  to  say,  however,  once  more, 
in  conclusion,  that  I  shall  vote  for  the  reso- 
lution now  before  the  House.  (Cheers.) 

Mr.  hope  MACKENZIE  said— As 
there  seems  to  be  a  lull  in  the  debate,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  will  embrace  the  opportunity  of 
briefly  stating  what  I  have  to  say  in  refer- 
ence to  this  scheme.  And  to  begin,  I 
congratulate  the  Grovernment  upon  the  stand 
they  have  taken  on  this  matter.  There  was 
a  degree  of  anxiety,  a  feeling  of  uncertainty 
amongst  the  friends  and  supporters  of  the 
Adminislration,  as  to  the  mode  of  dealing 
with  this  question  after  the  reception  of 
86 


unfavorable  news  from  the  Lower  Provinces. 
For  my  own  part  I  have  not  shared  in  that 
feeling,  but  continued   to    have   confidence 
that  the  Government  would  pursue  the  only 
proper  course,  and  ask  the   House  to  pro- 
nounce upon  the  scheme  on  its  merits.     If 
the  result  of  the  first  elections  held  in  New 
Brunswick  is  a  true  indication  of  the  state 
of  feeling  in  that  province,  then  it  is  plain 
that  defeat  awaits  the   present  proposition 
for  union  in   that  quarter ;    but  as  yet  no 
province  has  pronounced  upon  it,  either  for 
it  or  against  it ;  and  the  intelligence  received 
that  the  union  party  have  met  with  unlocked 
for  reverses  at  the  New  Brunswick  elections, 
however  dampening  to  the  prospects  of  early 
success,  is  no  sufficient'reason  why  we,  the 
originators  of  the  scheme,  should  set  the 
bad    example    of   summarily    giving  it  up. 
We   have  a    plain    duty   to    discharge   in 
regard  to   the   pronosition  laid  before  Par- 
liament   by    the  Grovernment,   and  that    is, 
either    to  accept  or   reject   it  as   a  whole. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Sir,   I  will  not  occupy  the 
time  of  the  House  so  long  as  I  probably 
would  have  done,  had  I  spoken  at  an  earlier 
stage  of  the  debate,  and  that  for  two  reasons, 
because  the  ground  has  been  all  gone  over 
by   those   who   have   spoken   already,   and 
because  I  think  the  Grovernment  have  good 
ground  for  urging  upon  the  House  the  pro- 
priety of  bringing  the  debate  to  a  close  as 
soon  as  possible.     I  can  easily  understand 
that  it  is  a  matter  of  paramount  importance 
to  have  the  vievt^s  of  the  Canadian  Parlia- 
ment laid  before  the  Imperial  Grovernment 
at  the  earliest  possible  moment.     I  cannot, 
however,  feel  it  to  be  consistent  with  a  pro- 
per discharge  of  my  duty  to  give  a  silent 
vote.      Having    spent   some    time    amongst 
my  constituents  prior  to  the  opening  of  this 
session,   and    had    conversations    with    the 
people  in  reference  to  this  scheme,  at  my 
meetings  with  them   I   gave   expression   to 
certain   objections  which   I  felt  in  my  own 
mind  to  certain  details  of  the  scheme,  if  I 
did  not  express  those  objections  on  the  floor  of 
the  House.    (Hear,  hear.)    But,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, while  I  discussed   freely  and  candidly 
what  appeared  to  me  the  objectionable  feat- 
ures of  the  scheme,  I  stated  most  distinctly 
to  my  constituents  that  in   the   event  of  no 
alteration  being  agreed  to  by  the  governments 
of  the  several  provinces,  the  scheme  as  a 
whole,  just  as  it  stood,  ought  to  be  accepted  ; 
and  that  in  the  event  of  the  alternative  being 
offered  to  Parliament  of  accepting  or  rejecting 
'  the  scheme  as  it  stood,  I  should  feel  it  my 


674 


duty  to  vote  for  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  I 
may  say  here  in  regard  to  the  question  of 
an  appeal  to  the  people  upon  this  subject, 
that  I  at  any  rate  can  vote  freely  against  any 
proposition  of  that  kind.  I  stated  to  the 
people  of  North  Oxford  that  in  my  opinion 
an  appeal  to  the  people  upon  this  scheme 
was  entirely  uncalled  for,  and  they  asjreed 
with  me.  I  may,  perhaps,  take  the  liberty 
of  saying  to  those  honorable  members  who 
clamour  for  a  dissolution,  merely  for  the  sake 
of  ascertaining  the  mind  of  the  people  upon 
the  measure,  and  who  do  not  take  to  the 
untenable  ground  of  denying  the  right  of 
this  Parliament  to  legislate  on  the  subject, 
that  if  they  did  not  consult  their  constituents 
with  a  view  to  obtaining  an  expression  of 
public  opinion,  they  ought  to  have  done  so. 
They  had  the  scheme  before  them  in  all  its 
details  for  months,  and  I  think  they  ought  to 
be  in  a  position,  when  they  came  here,  to 
know  whether  their  constituents  were  in 
favor  of  the  scheme  or  against  it.  In  the 
meetings  which  were  held  in  my  county,  I 
met  with  only  two  individuals  who  were 
prepared  to  go  the  length  of  denouncing  the 
scheme  in  toto,  although  many  would  prefer 
to  see  it,  in  some  respects,  different  from 
what  it  is.  So  well  disposed  did  the  people 
show  themselves  to  be  towards  the  union 
scheme,  that  in  the  town  of  Woodstock, 
where  a  very  large  and  influential  meeting 
was  held,  the  editor  of  a  newspaper  that 
had  been,  up  to  that  night,  urging  the 
necessity  for  a  dissolution  of  Parliament 
before  the  adoption  of  the  scheme,  was  the 
first  to  rise  to  move  a  resolution  approving 
of  the  scheme  in  all  its  features,  and  neither 
in  his  speech  nor  in  his  resolution  did  he 
even  hint  at  an  appeal  to  the  peoph^ ;  and 
that  meeting  voted  for  the  scheme  without 
a  single  dissentient  voice.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  RYMAL  —The  circular  hud  been 
sent  to  that  editor,  perhaps.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE— Well,  ifso,Iam 
not  aware  that  it  has  done  him  any  go  id  or 
produced  any  change  in  his  political  course. 
I  am  quite  satisfied,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the 
people  are  perfectly  willing  ttiat  this  Parlia- 
ment should  deal  with  this  Confederation 
scheme.  I  will  now,  sir,  state  briefly  what 
I  think  of  the  general  features  or  underly- 
ing principles  of  the  scheme.  The  honorable 
member  for  Brome  the  other  n'v^hx,  enter- 
tained the  House  by  a  very  elaborato  ex- 
amination of  the  scheme,  and,  among  other 
things,  he  proposed  to  show  that  the  pro- 
posed ConBtitutiou  was  an  entire  departure 


from  the  British  model,  and  had  in  it  so 
large  an  infusion  of  the  republican  system 
of  the  United  States  as  to  render  it  obnox- 
ious to  Britons;  but,  in  opposition  to  his 
own  premises,  he  succeeded  in  proving  to  a 
demonstration,  if  he  proved  anything,  that 
in  scarcely  a  single  particular  is  it  modelled 
after  the  pattern  of  the  republic.  He  even 
denounced  this  scheme  because  it  is  so  very 
different  from  and,  in  hjs  opinion,  inferior 
to  the  United  States  Constitution.  Well, 
sir,  I  accept  of  it  because  of  its  British 
and  monarchical  features, — I  accept  of  it 
because  of  its  monarchical  character.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  look  upon  it  as  a  scheme  more 
national  than  federal  in  its  character — as 
looking  more  to  a  national  union  of  the 
people  than  a  union  of  sections,  and  it  is 
chiefly  because  of  this  feature  of  it  that 
it  commends  itself  to  my  juilgment. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member  for 
Lotbini6re  dissented  from  this  view  the  other 
night,  and  argued  that  unless  the  supreme 
power  wa.s  placed  in  the  hands  of  the  separate 
provinces,  it  could  not  be  acceptable  to 
Lower  Canada,  as  otherwise  their  iusdtutions 
would  be  endangered  ;  and  yet  oddly  enough, 
he  elaborated  an  argument  to  prove  the 
fleeting  and  unstable  character  of  federations 
established  upon  the  only  principle  that  he 
seems  disposed  to  accept  for  this  country. 
In  the  course  of  his  remarks  on  this  head, 
he  said  : — 

Ths  Hon.  Minister  of  Agricnlture  said  of 
Federalism,  that  it  was  on  account  of  the  weakness 
of  the  ceutral  power  confederations  had  failed  ; 
and  it  was  argued  in  our  case,  that  there  would 
not  be  so  much  weakness  in  the  central  power. 
This  was  precisely  why  the  French-Canadians — 
his  fellow-countrymen — looked  with  suspicion  on 
the  proposition  to  establish  a  Confederation  with 
a  central  power — a  power  so  strong  thai  the  local 
parliaments  would  possess,  so  to  speak,  no  power 
at  all.  (Hear,  hear.)  All  tlie  confederations  he 
had  referred  to  had  at  least  this  excuse,  tliev  were 
sovereign  states,  and,  when  menaced  by  other 
powers,  leagued  themselves  together  for  the  com- 
mon interest. 

Now,  sir,  while  the  honorable  member  will 
have  nothing  to  do  with  i(,  because  of 
the  supreme  central  power  that  i.s  provided 
in  the  scheme,  [  take  it  just  because  of 
that  controlling  central  power  I  stand 
as  an  advocate  of  national  unity,  and  I  would 
not  accede  to  the  principlj  of  state  sover- 
eignty in  this  Conliederation,  the  provinces 
delegatincr  certain  powers  to  the  General 
Government  and  reserving  the  residuum  of 
power  to  themselves.     (Hear,  hear.)     We 


&!6 


need  not   go   to   the    history  of  the  South 
American  republics,  as  the  meuibcr  for  Lot- 
biniere   did,  to   find  an   illustration   of  the 
working  of  the  principle  of  Confederation  as 
applicable  to  our  case.     Being  not  only  re- 
publican in  their  character,  but  based  upon 
the  principle  of  divided  sovereignty,  and  in- 
habited by  a  people  who  had  no  aptitude  for 
working   democratic    institutions,  they  can 
bear  no  comparison  with  this  proposed  Con- 
stitution.    But  if  the  hon.   gentleman   de- 
sired  to    travel    to   South  America    to  find 
something   approaching   a   parallel   to   this 
scheme  of  union,  he  could  find  it  in  the 
constitutional  Tiionarchy   of  Brazil,    where 
the  wide-spreading  provinces  of  the  empire 
have  their  local   parliaments  for  their  local 
affairs,  and   a  central  parliament  and  execu- 
tive   over  all — elected   and    chosen    pretty 
much  as  our  Central  Parliament  and  Execu- 
tive will  be,  and  exercising  similar  powers  ; 
and  he  would  find  that  while  the  republics 
founded  upon  the  doctrine   of  state  sover- 
eignty were  in  a  state  of  perpetual  turmoil, 
and  whose  daily  bread  was,  according  to  the 
hon.  member,  anarchy  and   revolution,   the 
Empire  of  Brazil  was  flourishing  and  shewed 
signs  of  Stability  that  predicated  its  future 
greatness.       (Hear,    hear.)       But   to  come 
nearer   home,   sir,  we  have    abundant    evi 
dence  of  the  dangerous  character  of  the  doe- 
trine  of  state  supremacy  in  a  confederation. 
I  would  remind  the  House  of  the  early  ruin 
that   threatened   the   United   States  under 
their     first    Constitution,    which    was     an 
embodiment     of     this     vicious     principle, 
and   how    clearly    the    great    men   of    the 
first  year   of   the  republic  foresaw  the  ruin 
it  threatened  to  bring  upon  them.     Wash- 
ington,  perceiving   the   rapid    decline   of 
the   Confederation,    was  incessant    in    his 
correspondence  with  the  leading  patriots  of 
the  day  to  obtain  their  opinions  upon  a  new 
Constitution,  and  Madison  replies  as  follows : 

Conceiving  that  an  individual  independence  of 
the  states  is  totally  irreconcilable  with  tiieir 
aggregate  sovereignty,  and  that  a  consolidation 
of  the  whole  into  one  simple  republic  would  be 
as  inexpedient  as  it  is  unattainable,  I  have  sought 
for  some  middle  ground  which  may  at  once  sup- 
port a  due  supremacy  of  the  national  authority, 
and  not  exclude  the  local  authorities  wherein  thej 
can  be  subordinately  useful. 

Mr,  Jay's  convictions  in  favor  of  central 
supreme  authority  are  equally  strong.  He 
says : — 

What  powars  should  be  granted  to  the  Grovern- 


ment  so  constituted,  is  a  question  which  deserves 
much  thought.  1  think  the  more  the  better^  the 
states  retaining  only  so  much  as  may  be  necessary 
for  domestic  purposes. 

Hamilton,  likewise,  speaking  of  Federation 
such  as  men  had  hitherto  been  familiar  with, 
and  such  as  then  existed  in  America,  and 
equally  anxious  with  his  co-patriots  to  save 
his  country  from  the  anarchy  and  ruin  that 
he  saw  approaching  as  the  inevitable  result 
of  a  partitioned  sovereignty,  thus  addressed 
the  head  of  the  republic  : — 

All  Federal  governments  are  weak  and  dis- 
tracted. In  Older  to  avoid  the  evils  incident  to 
that  form,  the  Government  of  the  American 
Union  must  be  a  national  representative  system. 
But  no  such  system  can  be  successful  in  the  actual 
situation  of  this  country,  unless  it  is  endorsed  with 
all  the  principles  and  means  of  influence  and 
power  which  are  the  proper  supports  of  govern- 
ment. It  must,  therefore,  be  made  completely 
sovereign,  and  state  power,  as  a  separate  legisla- 
tive power,  must  be  annihilated. 

I  read  these  extracts  to  show  how  rapidly 
the  Centra!  Government  of  the  United  States 
was   falling   into    contempt   because    of  its 
subordination  to  the  separate  states,  and  to 
show  that  the  leading   minds   cf  America, 
while   the  republic  was  yet  in  its  infancy, 
felt   that  the  doctrine  of  state  supremacy 
was  one  calculated   to  foster   anarchy,  and 
that  was  sure  to  bring  the  early  destruction 
of  the  fabric   they  had  reared,  and  also  to 
show  how  earnestly  they  labored  to  remove 
the  evil  and  transfer  the  sovereignt;  to  the 
Central  Grovernment,  as  their  only  hope  of 
maintaining  permanent  peace  and  order,  and 
of  imparting  stability  to   their  system.     I 
think,  sir,  it  becomes  us  in  framing  a  Consti- 
tution for  these  provinces  to  profit,  not  only 
by  the  early  but  by  the   later  experience  of 
our   neighbors — to    enquire   how    far   they 
succeeded  in  eradicating  the  evil  from  their 
new  Constitution,  and  to  what  extent  their 
present  troubles  are   chargeable   to  what  is 
left  in  their  system  of  the  dangerous  prin- 
ciple referred   to.      .Let   us   profit   by   the 
wisdom   of  the    framers    of  the    American 
Constitution,  and  by  the  experiences  of  that 
country  under  it — not  to  coj)y  their  work, 
but  to  help  us  when  framing  a  Constitution 
for  ourselves  to  steer  clear  of  evils  that  they 
have  felt.     Believing  that  the  Quebec  Con- 
ference has  done  so  and  have  presented  to 
us  the  framework  of  a  Constitution,  the  lead- 
insr  features  of  which  are  in  unison  with  the 
constitutional  principles  of  the  British  mon- 
archy, and  consistent  with  that  allegiance 


676 


which  we  all  owe  and  cheerfully  yield  to  the 
Throne  of  Britain,  I  cheerfully  endorse  the 
scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  will  now,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, look  at  the  scheme  in  its  sectional  aspect; 
and,  in  my  judgment,  it  is  in  this  respect  a 
fair  one.  The  apportionment  of  the  debt 
and  other  financial  arrangements  i^  a  theme 
upon  which  many  remarks  and  explanations 
have  been  made  in  this,  as  well  as  in  the 
other  branch  of  the  Legislature;  and  charges 
are  made  of  having  bribed  the  Lower 
Provinces  into  the  scheme,  and  that  the 
Canadian  Delegates  in  the  Conference  sacri- 
ficed the  interests  of  Canada  in  their 
eagerness  to  con.summate  a  scheme  that  had 
its  origin  in  their  political  necessities.  One 
hon.  gentleman  complains  that  population  is 
not  the  proper  basis  upon  which  to  distribute 
the  burden  of  the  public  debt,  and  that  by 
adopting  it  Canada  has  been  saddled  with 
many  millions  more  than  her  shnre.  "  Re- 
venue," it  is  contended,  "  is  the  true  test  of 
ability  to  pay,  therefore  revenue  is  the  basis 
upon  which  the  apportionment  should  be 
made."  Were  the  taxation  alike  in  all  the 
provinces,  there  would,  at  least,  be  the 
appearance  of  justice  in  the  argument ;  but 
with  revenue  raised  under  the  operation  of 
diff'erent  tariffs,  in  the  several  provinces,  I 
think  population  is  a  juster  basis  than 
revenue.  Taking,  however,  the  revenues  as 
we  find  them  under  existing  tariffs,  and 
adjusting  the  debt  by  that  standard,  we  find 
that  it  will  differ  but  little  from  the  appor- 
tionment that  has  been  agreed  upon  ;  and 
weiethe  tariffs  of  the  Maritime  Provinces 
somewhat  higher  than  they  are  now,  I 
apprehend,  sir,  that  the  consuming  ability 
of  these  provinces  would  demonstrate  not 
only  their  ability  to  pay  according  to  this 
test,  but  also  that  Canada  is  in  no  way 
imposed  upon  in  regard  to  the  amount  of 
debt  with  which  these  provinces  are  to  be 
permitted  to  enter  the  union.  I  believe  that 
every  one  of  the  five  provinces  has  had  its  in- 
terests well  consulted  in  this  scheme,  and  that 
it  is  so  well  balanced  throughout  in  reference 
to  those  interests,  that  there  is  very  little  to 
complain  of.  (Hear,  hcar.j  But  speaking 
from  an  Upper  Canadian  point  of  view — 
which  1  deeui  it  my  duty  to  do,  as  one  of  the 
representatives  of  that  section — I  will  glance 
at  one  or  two  of  the  objections  urged  by  the 
honorable  member  for  North  Ontario,  very 
briefiy.  Tiiat  honorable  gentleman  accuses 
Upper  Canadians  of  disregarding  and  forget- 
ting their  ioruicr  professions  on  tlie  represent- 
ation question,  and  broadly  asbcrts  that  the 


Honorable  President  of  the  Council,  as  the 
leader  in  the  agitation  for  representation  by 
population,  has  agreed  to  a  measure  that  is  a 
mere  delusion,  that  in  point  of  fact  puts  Up- 
per Canada  in  a  worse  position  than  she  now 
occupies.  He  says  that  instead  of  occupying 
a  position  of  equality  in  the  legislature,  as 
now,  she  will  be  found  in  the  new  union  with 
a  majority  of  thirty  arrayed  against  her.  The 
honorable  gentleman  builds  his  argument  upon 
false  and  erroneous  premises,  when  he  says 
that  Upper  Canada  does  not  get  by  this 
scheme  what  its  people  have  long  sought, 
representation  according  to  its  population; 
and  when  he  points  out  that  all  the  other 
provinces,  unitedly,  will  outvote  her  in  the 
General  Legislature  by  thirty  votes,  I  submit, 
sir,  that  his  argument  is  exceedingly  unfair, 
and  is  founded  on  the  assumption  that  Upper 
Canada  asked  for  an  increase  of  representa- 
tion for  the  purpose  of  obtaining  supremacy 
in  the  Government.  Now,  I  deny  that  most 
emphatically  on  behalf,  not  only  of  myself, 
but  of  every  man  from  Upper  Canada  who  de- 
manded a  change  in  the  representation.  We 
did  not  advocate  that  change  for  the  purpose 
of  gaining  the  supremacy,  but  simply  and 
solely  as  a  measure  of  justice  to  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada,  and  to  place  them  on  an 
equal  footing,  man  for  man,  with  the  people 
of  Lower  Canada.  We  had  certain  grievances 
and  wrongs  which  we  complained  of,  and 
which  the  granting  of  representation  would 
not  of  itself  redress ;  we  complained  that  a 
larger  proportion  of  the  public  revenues,  to 
which  we  contributed  seventy  per  cent.,  was 
spent  in  Lower  Canada  than  in  Upper  Can- 
ada ;  w§  complained  also  of  legislative  acts 
passed  by  majorities  from  Lower  Canada  and 
which  concerned  Upper  Canada  chiefly  ;  we 
did  not  ask  representation  by  population  be- 
cause we  believed  it,  of  itself,  would  sweep 
away  all  this  injustice,  but  because  it  would 
give  us  this  advantage,  that  we  would  in  this 
House  have  our  due  proportion  of  the  repre- 
sentation, every  man  in  Upper  Canada  having 
an  equal,  and  no  more  than  equal,  voice  in 
the  i.,egislature  with  every  .man  in  Lower  Can- 
ada. This  was  all  we  asked ;  we  never  de- 
manded more  than  what  was  just ;  we  asked 
but  fair  play — British  fair  play — au  equal 
representation,  man  for  man,  and  we  would 
be  willing  to  take  our  chance  in  the  political 
struggle  for  the  redress  of  the  evils  we  com- 
plained of.  Wc  never  sought  or  wished  for 
supremacy,  but  only  our  just  and  fair  in- 
fluence according  to  our  numbers  and  the 
public  burdens  we  bore,  and  having  obtained 


677 


this  we  were  willing  to  take  our  chance 
whether  that  influence,  employed  in  a  legiti- 
mate and  constitutional  way,  succeeded  in  re- 
moving our  grievances  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.) 
To  say  now  that  we  do  not  obtain  what  we 
have  contended  for — to  say  that  we  do  not 
get  representation  by  population  because  the 
Lower  Provinces,  including  Lower  Canada, 
will  have  thirty  more  votes  in  the  General 
Legislature,  is  simply  doing  Upper  Canada 
an  injustice  and  a  wrong ;  and  the  history  of 
the  British  parliamentary  system  and  our  own 
experience  in  Canada,  warrant  the  conclusion 
that  in  the  General  Legislature  we  shall  not 
have,  as  alleged  by  honorable  gentlemen  op- 
posed to  the  scheme,  parties  divided  against 
one  another  because  of  the  provinces  which  they 
represent.  Under  our  present  Constitution 
we  are  not  divided  sectionally,  but  as  political 
parties,  for  we  find  gentlemen  from  both 
sections  taking  sides  according  to  their  poli- 
tical predilections,  irrespective  of  sectional 
considerations;  and  so  it  will  be  under  the 
proposed  Confederation.  We  have  conserva- 
tives and  radicals,  and  always  will  have  them. 
Do  we  not  find  men  of  both  races  in  the  pro- 
vince voting  on  both  sides  politically  ?  It  is 
true  the  demand  for  constitutional  changes 
has  to  some  extent,  but  only  to  some  extent, 
divided  us  as  the  representatives  of  sections 
in  this  House  ;  but  on  all  other  questions — 
such  as  commerce,  banking,  customs  tarifi"s, 
excise,  and  other  questions — we  find  gentle- 
men voting  according  to  their  political  views, 
and  not  as  representing  sections.  So  it  will 
be  under  the  Confederation.  People  will  be 
divided  into  parties  by  their  political  opinions 
and  leanings,  and  not  by  sectional  considera- 
tions. (Hear,  hear.)  In  claiming,  then,  that 
under  it  there  will,  on  all  questions,  be  a 
majority  against  Upper  Canada,  is  to  assume 
that  Upper  Canada  will  be  at  war  with  all  the 
other  provinces,  and  that  they  will  be  con- 
tinually at  war  with  it.  Well,  what  right 
has  any  man  to  assume  that  this  will  be  the  case 
— that  Upper  Canada  will  be  the  Ishmael  of  the 
Confederation  ?  I  think  he  has  none  what- 
ever. (Hear,  hear.)  The  addition  of  seven- 
teen members  to  Upper  Canada  in  the  outset, 
with  the  pi'oposed  arrangement  for  re-adjust- 
ment every  ten  years  according  to  the  increase 
or  decrease  of  population  in  each  of  the  pro- 
vinces, is  substantial  justice  to  all,  and  is  all 
that  Upper  Canada  ever  asked  for  or  expected. 
But,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  honorable  member  for 
North  Ontario  not  only  accuses  the  Upper 
Canadians  who  support   this  scheme   of  an 


abandonment  of  their  principles  on  this  point, 
and  of  ofiering  to  the  people  of  Upper  Canada 
the  very   opposite  of  what   they  asked  for, 
but  charges  that  we  have  sacrificed  our  cash 
as  well  as  our  principles.   An  honorable  mem- 
ber of  the   other   House   has   taken   similar 
ground,  and  charges  in  efiect  that  the  Lower 
Provinces  have  been  bribed  into  this  scheme 
at  the  expense  of  Upper  Canada,  and  that  as 
regards  Lower  Canada,  we  undertake  to  pay 
her  in  perpetuity  a  subsidy   of  $167,000   a 
year ;  and  the  honorable  gentleman  asks  if  ever 
Lower  Canada  asked  for  anything  like  that 
under  our  present  system  ?     He  fells  us,  too, 
that  for  each  of  the  seventeen  additional  mem- 
bers we  get  in  the  Federal  Government,  we 
pay  at  the  rate  of  $l5,000  each.     As  regards 
the    Lower    Provinces,    I    submit  that     it 
cannot  be  shewn  that  their  union  with   us 
will  be  to  our  detriment  in  money  matters. 
They  will  contribute  as  large  an  amount  per 
head   to  the   general  revenue    as   we   do   in 
Upper  Canada,    and  if    any   financial   efiect 
will  be  felt   by  Upper  Canada  in  consequence 
of  the  union  of  these   provinces  with   us,  I 
think  it  must  be  in  the  direction  of  lessening: 
her  burdens ;  such,  at  all  events,  is  the  con- 
clusion 1  have  arrived  at,  and  such,  I  think,  is 
the  conclusion  any  man  will  arrive  at  who 
will  take  the  trouble  to  inform  himself  of  the 
position  of  these  provinces  as  regards  the  fin- 
ancial  questions  between  Upper   and  Lower 
Canada.     I  do  not  know  where  the  honorable 
member  gets  his  figures,  nor   can  I  very  well 
understand  them,  but  in  regard  to  the  subsidy 
of  $167,000  a  year  that  he  speaks  of,  what 
are  the  facts  of  the  case  ?     Let  it  be  borne  in 
mind,  sir,  that  as  Upper  Canadians  we  claimed 
that  we  were  paying  an  enormous  price  for 
the  present  union  with   Lower  Canada,  and 
that  we  urged  this  as  one  reason  why  we  were 
entitled  to  the  concession  of  representation  by 
population  as  an  act  of  justice,  that  we  might 
have  our  due  share  of  infiuence  in  controlling 
the  expenditure  of  the  revenues  of  the  country 
to  which  we  contributed  so  largely.     We  com- 
plained, and  it  was  advanced  in  this  Assembly 
over  and  over  again,  as  one  of  the  reasons  for 
demanding  representation  by  population,  that 
our  money  was  given  away  to  sections  which 
contributed  little  or  nothing  to  the  general  re- 
venue ;  that  while  we  paid  seventy  per  cent, 
of  the  revenue  and  Lower  Canada  only  thirty 
per  cent.,  an  equal  proportion  of  the  expen- 
diture was  enjoyed   by   Lower   Canada ;  and 
that   under   this  system  Upper  Canada  was 
paying  not  only  for  its  own  local  improvements 


678 


and  sustaining  not  only  the  cost  of  carrying 
on  its  own  loc^l  affairs,  but  contributing 
largely  as  well  to  the  local  wants  of  Lower 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  it  was  in  re- 
ference to  these  local  matters  that  the  evil 
was  chiefly  felt  and  that  complaints  were 
louder  than  with  reference  to  general  expen- 
diture, for  they  were  tangible  grievances, 
things  that  were  easily  understood,  and  that 
presLutcd  themselves  as  an  injustice  every 
year  in  the  estimates  presented  to  this  House. 
There  was  a  sura  of  two  millions,  or  more 
voted  every  year  for  the  support  of  local  in- 
terests and  fo  promote  local  works  or  improve- 
ments, including  such  items  as  the  support  of 
education,  hospitals  and  charities,  and  the 
opening  up  of  colonization  roads  ;  and  of  this 
eum  one-half  was  aj^plied  to  local  purposes 
Lower   Canada.       Now,    our    argument 


in 


was,    that    of  this    money  taken  out  of  the 
public     chest,    Upper    Canada     contributed 
seventy  per  cent.,  and    Lower    Canada    the 
remainder.     If  this  was  true — and  I  think  it 
was  incontrovertibly  so — then  it  was  perfectly 
clear  that  we  in  Upper  Canada  had  to  pay  not 
only  the  appropriations  made  for  local  pur- 
poses in  that  section,  but  also  nearly  one-half 
of  the   appropriations  for  local  purposes  in 
Lower  Canada.     Let  me  remark  here  that  I 
do  not  think  any  man  will  complain  that  we 
in  Upper  Canada  are  paying  this  large  portion 
of  the  public  revenue.     Under  our  system  of 
indirect  taxation,  or  indeed  under  any  system, 
it  must  be  that  the  richest  part  of  tlie  com- 
munity shall   bear  the   largest  share  of  the 
public  burdens,  and  they  have  a  right  to  do 
80.     I  do  not   complain   that   the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  pay   a  larger   amount  of  the 
revenue  of  the  country  than  those  of  Lower 
Canada,  because  if  they  choose  to  consume 
the  imported  articles  upon  which   duties  are 
levied,  they  do  so  because  they  are  able  to  pay 
for  them.     They  are  not  required  to  consume 
them,   but  if  they  do,  and   aiC   made  to  pay 
indirectly  to  the  public  exchequer,  they  have 
no  right  to  complain  that  the  people  of  Lower 
Canada,  more  frugal  and  eeonouiical,  consume 
less  dutiable  goods  and   tlierelorc  contribute 
less  to  the  revenue.     We  in  Upper  Canada  do 
not  complain  of  thi.s,    but  we  give  it  as  a 
reason  why  we  should  have  our  just  share  ol' 
iufluenco  in  the  legislature   and    government 
of  the  country.     We  do  not  argue  that  beoauso 
we  contribute  more  we  ought  to  have  a  larger 
representation   than  Lower  Canada  ;  but  wo 
say  that  if  we  really  do  pay  more  to  tlie  public 
exchequer,  it   is    an   additional    reason — our 
population  being  greater — that  we  should  have 


an  equal  voice  with  Lower  Canada,  in  propor- 
tion to  our  numbers,  in  controlling  the  expen- 
diture of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well, 
this  being  the  case  that  Upper  Canada  con- 
tributes the  largest  share  of  the  revenue,  it  is 
perfectly  clear  to,  my  mind — and  I  think  it 
will  be  to  that  of  any  man  who  examines  the 
subject  intelligently — that  Upper  Canada  pnys 
to  Lower  Canada,  under  our  present  system, 
a  considerable  sum  of  money,  amounting  to 
half  a  million  of  dollars  yearly,  for  the  sup- 
port of  its  local  interests  and  institutions; 
and  if  the  honorable  member  for  North  On- 
tario will  balance  the  proportion  that  Upper 
Canada  pays  of  the  eighty  cents  per  head 
proposed  to  be  paid  to  Lower  Canada  with 
the  amount  now  paid  to  it  by  Upper  Canada, 
he  will  find  that  a  large  saving  will  be  effected 
by  the  plan  now  proposed  for  our  acceptance. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have  thus,  I  think,  gained 
by  this  scheme,  not  only  representation  by 
population,  saving  us  from  the  imputation  of 
having  sacrificed  this  principle  in  order  to 
obtain  Confederation,  but  we  have  also,  by  the 
same  measure,  gained  a  substantial  redress  of 
the  grievances  to  remove  which  representation 
by  population  was  demanded.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Not  only  has  a  saving  of  money  been  effected, 
but  also  a  removal  from  this  Legislature  of 
those  subjects  upon  which  angry,  intemperate, 
and  painful  dLscussions  have  taken  place  in 
times  past.  For  these  reasons,  I  think  it  is 
a  most  desirable  thing  that  the  scheme  should 
be  carried  out.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  marvel- 
lous how  inconsisteut  some  honorable  gentle- 
men show  themselves  to  be  in  their  desire  to 
oppose  this  measure.  The  honorable  member 
for  Lotbiuiere,  speaking  of  it  from  a  sectional 
point  of  ^w,  has  also,  I  think,  exposed  him- 
self to  this  charge.  He  charges  the  Honor- 
able Attorney  General  East  with  inconsist- 
ency, if  not  something  wor^e,  in  occupying 
the  position  he  now  does  as  affecting  the  in- 
terests of  Lower  Canada,  forgetful  of  his  own 
relative  position,     lie  said  : — 

If  the  member  for  South  Oxford  had  earned 
liis  popularity  by  attacking  the  iiistilutioiis  of 
Lower  Canada  through  the  agilntioa  for  repro- 
seutatioii  by  poiiululion,  it  miglit  be  snid  of  the 
llou.  Attorney  (Ji-'iieral  East  that  lie  hud  risiti  to 
liojiuhirity  by  defeiiiliufj  or  by  utVectiii;'  to  defend 
those  institutions.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  had  so  well 
.succeeded  in  obtainin,:^  the  good  graces  of  the 
people  of  this  section  of  the  province,  and  in  se- 
curing tlieir  confulencc,  that  it  w.i.j  e.xtremely 
ditHcult  for  any  of  those  who  were  politically  op- 
posed to  him  to  attempt  to  dpcak  in  the  interests 
of  their  fellowcounlrymoii.     (Hear,  hoar.) 

The  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford  (Hon. 


679 


Mr.  Brown)  is  here  represented  as  having 
earned  his  popularity  by  attacking  the  insti- 
tutions of  Lower  Canada,  and  the  honorable 
member  for  Montreal  East  (Hon.  Mr.  Car- 
tier)  as  having  earned  his  by  defending  these 
same  institutions,  and  the  insinuation  is  that 
he  has  now  abandoned  the  defence  of  these 
institutions  and  handed  them  over  to  the  ten- 
der mercies  of  the  Honorable  President  of 
the  Council.  Let  me  ask  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Lotbini^re,  if  being  in  company  with 
the  honorable  member  for  South  Oxford  be 
evidence  of  hostility  to  the  institutions  of 
Lower  Canada,  how  he  explains  his  own  po- 
sition, and  that  of  his  party,  when  they  cast 
in  their  lot  with  the  honorable  member  for 
South  Oxford,  while  earning  his  popularity 
by,  as  he  says,  attacking  the  institutions  of 
Lower  Canada,  and  abandoned  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  East  when  doing  battle  in 
defence  of  those  institutions  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  think  the  question  is  one  not  easily  an- 
swered. The  honorable  gentleman  must  either 
have  been  politically  dishonest  before,  or  po- 
litically dishonest  now,  and  he  can  take 
either  horn  of  the  dilemma  he  pleases. 

Mr.  JOLY — I  never  supported  the  Honor- 
able Attorney  General  East,  and  if  I  have 
been  forced  upon  the  same  side  as  the  honor- 
orable  member  for  South  Oxford,  it  was  be- 
cause we  were  united  together  in  opposition 
to  that  honorable  gentleman.  That  was  the 
only  bond  of  union  that  connected  us  to- 
gether. On  the  question  of  representation  by 
population  we  were  always  divided.  What  I 
meant  in  the  observation  I  made,  that  has 
been  alluded  to  by  the  honorable  member,  is 
this,  that  the  Honorable  President  of  the 
Council  had  gained  the  position  he  occupies 
now  by  attacking  Lower  Canada,  and  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  East  his,  by  as- 
suming to  defend  it ;  and  when  at  length  they 
found  that  the  game  would  no  longer  answer, 
when  the  Honorable  President  of  the  Council 
saw  himself  excluded  forever  from  a  scat  in 
the  Ministry  if  he  continued  to  play  it,  they 
banded  together,  and  we  now  see  the  result. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE— Atall  events,  Mr. 
Speaker,  the  hon.  member  makes  it  clear 
that  he  has  changed  sides.  For  when  the 
Hon  Attorney  General  East  was  deiending 
the  institutions  of  Lower  Canada,  he  opposed 
him,  and  now  he  opposes  him  because  he 
says  he  has  adopted  the  contrary  policy. 

Mr.  JOLY — I  opposed  him  for  other 
reasons — not  for  that  reason. 

Mr.  H.  MACKENZIE— At  all  events  the 


hon.  member  has  contributed  his  mite  to  the 
influence  the  hon.  member  fur  South  Oxford 
had    in   this   House,   by  attacking,   as   he 
declares,  the  institutions  of  Lower  Canada. 
I  have  already  said  that  all  parties  are  not 
satisfied   with   this    scheme;  and    while   on 
this  point,  I  wish  to  allude  for  a  moment  to 
the  con.*titution   of  the  Legislative  Council. 
It  is  the  only  reference  I  shall  make  on  this 
branch  of  the   subject.     When   addressing 
my  constituents,  1   took   exception   to  this 
portion  of  the   resolutions.      1  did  so,  not 
because  I  cared  very  much  whether  we  had 
in  this  country  a  Legislative  Council  nomi- 
nated by  the  Crown  or  elected  by  the  people, 
but,  the   nominative    system    baviog    been 
superseded  by  the  elective,  I    preferred  to 
have  it  as  it  was.     It  was  in  thes3  terms  that 
I   spoke  to  the  people.     Alter  having  ad- 
dressed  one   or  two   meetiugs,   I   saw   the 
despatch   of  the   Colonial  Secretary,  and  I 
uoticed  that  this  matter   of  the  constitution 
of  the  Council  was  pointed  out  as  one  which 
required  revision;  and  I  took  it  for  granted 
that  communications  would  be  opened  be- 
tween the  several  Colonial  Governments  such 
as  would  possibly  lead  to  a  change.    Doubtless 
there  are  sufficient  reasons  why  this  has  not 
been    done.     But,  although    I    would   have 
hked  it  to  have  been  so,  and   althoagh  it 
would  have  concurred  more  closely  with  the 
views  of  Upper  Canada,  I  do  not  think  it  of 
sufficient  importance  to  warrant  me  ia  reject- 
ing the  scheme  on  that   account.     (Hear, 
hear.)     If  it  involves  the  rejection  of  the 
whole  scheme,  I  do  not  feel  myself  warranted 
in  pressing  tor  an  amendment  on  the  point. 
(Hear.)  In  framing  a  constitution  of  this  kind, 
everybody  must  be  aware  that  an  agreement 
could  never  have  been  arrived  at  except  on 
the  principle  oi   compromise  and  concession. 
It  is  perfectly  useless — it  is  worse  than  useless 
— to  suppose  that  aoy  of  the  several  sections 
of  a  wide-spread  territory  could  come  together 
with  a   view   to  the   formation   of  a   union 
among  themselves,  unless  each  one  of  these 
sections   was  prepared  to  sacrifice  and  give 
up  something.      What  right,  I  would   ask, 
had  we  to  expect  that  all  the  other  colonies 
would  agree  to  the  views  of  Upper  Canada, 
or  to  the  views  of  Canada  as  a  whole  ?  What 
right  had  we  to  expect  that  the  Province  of 
Nova  Scotia  would    agree   with  u^   in   our 
views  with    reference    to    every    particular 
matter  ?  What  right  had  we  in  Upper  Canada 
to  expect  that  in  framing   this  scheme  we 
would  be  able  to  expunge  the  separate  school 
clauses  from  the  School  Act  ?     If  that  could 


680 


be  done,  it  would  no  doubt  be  agreeable  to 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada,  because  we  think 
that  in  our  Comuiou  School  system    there 
should  be  no  element  of  sectarianism.     As 
a  people,  we    are  desirous    of    having  our 
School  law  without  any  provision  for  separate 
schools.     It  is  perhaps  a  bold  statement  to 
make,  but  I  believe  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  as  a  whole,  Roman  Catholics  as  well 
as   Protestants,  would  be  content  with  our 
school  system  without  a  particle  of  sectarian- 
ism in  it.     We  could   scarcely  expect  that 
if  we  were  to  succeed  in  framing  a  basis  of 
union   under   a  new  Constitution,  we  could 
get  the  sectarian  clauses  of  the  School  Act 
removed,  if  they  were  insisted  upon  as  sine 
qua  non  by  the   Roman  Catholics  in  Lower 
Canada  in  conjunctien  with  the  adherents  of 
the  same  faith  ia  Upper  Canada.     But  not- 
withstanding this,  although  it  is  a  sensitive 
point   in    Upper   Canada,    and  particularly 
among  my   own   constituents,  I  venture  to 
say  that  the  people  of  the  west  generally,  in 
their   willingness  at    all    times  to  listen  to 
reason,  will  be  quite  content  to  accept  the 
scheme  as  a  whole,  as  it  has  been  presented 
to    us.       (Hear,  hear.)      I   hope   that    no 
attempt  will   be  made  to  increase  the  pri- 
vileges of  the  advocates  of  separate  schools, 
but   that    the  question  will  be   left  where 
we   now    find    it.      (tJear,   hear.)       It    is 
worth    while,    perhaps,    to    read    a  single 
passage,  written  by  a  distinguished  man,  in 
reference  to  this  principle  of  concession.     I 
have  already  instanced   the   views   of  o 
framers  of  the  American  Constitution  when 
they  set  to  work  to  do  away  with  the  first 
Federation  scheme  and  to  adopt  a  new  Con- 
stitution.    When  they  had  framed  the  new 
Constitution,  we  find  Washington  accom- 
panying  the    document    with   a   letter,   in 
which  this  passage  occurs  : — 

It  is  obviously  impracticable  in  the  Federal 
Government  of  these  states  to  secure  all  rights  of 
independent  sovereignty  to  each,  and  yet  provide 
for  the  interest  and  safety  of  all.  Individuals 
entering  into  society  must  give  up  a  share  ol' 
liberty  to  preserve  the  rest.  The  magnitude  of 
the  sacrifice  must  depend  an  well  on  situation  and 
circumstances  as  on  the  object  to  be  altainetl. 
It  is  at  all  times  difficult  to  draw  wiili  precision 
the  lino  between  those  ri-'hts  which  must  be  sur 
rendered  and  tho-se  which  may  be  reserved. 

Doubtless,  sir,  the  members  of  the  Quebec 
Conference  encountered  the  same  dilhcultics 
as  the  framers  of  the  Anjerican  CouHtitution 
did.     They  must  have  lound    it   dilhcult  to 


draw  the  line  exactly  where  it  should  be 
drawn.     I  presume   it  could   not  be  done, 
and  that  each  one  felt  it  incumbent  upon  him 
to  make  certain  concessions,  and  that  all  they 
could  hope  to  do  was  to  have  some  broad 
margin,  some  neutral   ground,  on  which  to 
draw  the  line,  so  as  to  be  able  to  say  they 
did  the  best  they  could  t^  unite  the  sectional 
interests    of  the    provinces  and  to   further 
something  like  a  nationality  for  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I   do   not  desire   to  trespass 
upon  the  House  ;  I   have  purposely   passed 
over  much  that  I  intended  to  have  said,  had 
the  Government  desired  to  eucourrge  dis- 
cussion   at  greater  length ;  and   I  pass  on 
rapidly  to  a  conclusion.  (Cries  of  "  Go  on  !") 
I  think  the   union   desirable,  not  only  as  a 
benefit  to  ourselves,  but  as  a  means  for  con- 
solidating the  Rritish  Empire  on  this  conti- 
nent,   and    to   save    us    from    a    degrading 
dependency  on  the  United  States,  especially 
as  we   have  the   means  within    ourselves   of 
making  them  to  a  certain  extent  dependent 
upon  us.     Look  at  the  map  of  this  country, 
look  at  the  position   we  occupy  geographic- 
ally ;  see  the  outlet  we  possess  to  the  ocean  ; 
look  at  the  magnificent  St.   Lawrence,   with 
the  vast  grain  growing  country   beyond   it. 
Is  it  not  iu  our  power  to  draw  the  trade  of 
the   Great    West  through    this    its  natural 
outlet  to  the  ocean  ?     Is  it  not  possible  to  so 
improve  this  channel  as  to  bring  the  produce 
of    the    great    Western     States    to    market 
through  our  territory  ?     Is  it   not  possible, 
by  means  of  a  little  judicious  outlay,  to  make 
the  people  of  the  United   States   dependent 
on    us,    instead    of    us    being    dependent 
on     them?       (Hear,      hear.)       There    is 
much    that    could    be    said    on     this    sub- 
ject, and  the  means  that  might  be  resorted 
to  tor  securing  to  us  these  benefits  of  trade 
and  commerce.     It  is  not  so  much  to  the  en- 
largement of  the  Weiland  and  St.  Lawrence 
canals,  although  that  is  necos^'ary,  as  to  the 
construction  of  a  ship  canal  to  Lake  liuron 
through    the    <)tt:iwa    country,  that    in   my 
opinion  we  must  look  for   the  ultimate  com- 
mercial greatness  of  this  country,  as  furnish- 
ing   the   shortest  and    safest  route   for   the 
conveyance    <»f   the    contents    of  the   great 
granaries  of  the   west    to   foreign  market*.. 
The   proposed    Ottawa  canal  may    not   run 
through  a  country  as  fertile  us  the  valley  ot 
the  St.  liuwrence  ;  it  is  of  a  diil'erent  geolo- 
gical   formation  ;  nevertheless,  I  believe   it 
to  bo   a  country  of  great   riches,  whose  re- 
sources are  as  yet  undeveloped,      1  think  that 


681 


a  ship  canal  from  Georgian  Bay  in  that 
direction  would  not  only  furnish  a  satisfac- 
tory outlet  for  the  produce  of  the  west,  but 
would  lead  to  a  splendid  market  for  the  lum- 
ber trade,  and  find  employment  for  a  class  of 
vessels  to  which  we  cannot  at  present  give 
profitable  occupation  ;  and,  besides,  it  would 
open  a  channel  for  such  vessels'  and  imple- 
ments of  war  as  may  be  necessary  for  the 
defence  of  the  country.  (Hear,  Uear.)  I 
would  conclude  by  saying  that  I  think  union 
desirable,  not  only  because  of  its  present  ad- 
vantages, but  on  account  of  our  future  pros- 
pects. Looking  at  the  future,  I  do  not  think 
it  desirable  that  one  government  should  exer- 
cise sway  over  the  whole  of  the  North  Ameri- 
can continent.  (Hear,  hear.)  Nor  do  I 
think  it  desirable  that  such  a  government 
should  be  a  republican  government.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Taking  this  view  of  the  case  ;  looking 
back  to  the  histoi'y  of  the  pastj  reflecting 
upon  the  evils  which  have  followed  hasty 
constitution-making,  and  the  troubles  that 
have  occurred  in  consequence  of  blundering 
at  the  outset,  it  becomes  us  to  consider 
whether  the  scheme  which  has  now  been 
laid  before  us  has  in  it  the  elements  of 
stability.  I  think  it  has,  so  far  as  human 
foresight  can  determine.  (Hear,  hear.)  Greo- 
graphically  this  country  covers  a  vast  extent 
of  territory.  We  can  lean  our  backs  on  the 
snows  of  the  north,  and  from  that  quarter  no 
enemy  can  attack  us  ;  and  if  we  have  no  great 
breadth  from  north  to  south,  we  have  a  large 
expanse  westwards.  Although,  too,  we  are 
in  a  northern  clime,  although  our  latitude  is 
higher  than  that  of  our  southern  neighbor, 
yet  this  is  no  obstacle  to  the  growth 
of  population  or  to  the  increase  of  pros- 
perity. (Hear,  hear.)  Teeming  millions 
will  in  future  inhabit  this  land,  and 
we  are  called  upon  now  to  lay  deep  and 
broad  the  foundations  of  a  great  empire. 
Let  us  shew  that  we  value  the  free  institu- 
tions of  Britain  transplanted  to  this  soil ; 
institutions  founded  upon  principles  of 
freedom  and  universal  toleration ;  institutions 
that  have  made  the  parent  land  great,  and 
that  mark  it  out  as  the  one  bright  spot  in 
the  old  world  to  which  the  eyes  of  the 
nations  turn  when  their  liberties  are  im- 
perilled, and  as  the  city  of  refuge  to  which 
crowned  heads,  as  well  as  the  victims  of 
their  misrule,  can  alike  flee  for  safety  in  the 
hour  of  their  misfortune.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
have  no  hesitation,  Mr.  Speakeu,  in  en- 
dorsing the  scheme  before  us.  I  do  so 
87 


because  I  believe  its  leading  principles  are 
in  harmony  with  the  principles  upon  which 
the  British  constitutional  sjfstem  is  founded, 
and  because  I  think  it  is  a  fuir  arrangement 
between  all  the  provinces;  and,  as  an  Upper 
Canadian,  I  accept  it  because  I  think  it 
concedes  to  us  the  status  we  are  entitled  to 
occupy.  I  accept  it,  further,  because  of  the 
prospect  it  holds  out  to  us  of  building  up  a 
great  nationality  here,  and  of  handing  down 
to  our  children  institutions  which  our 
fathers  have  bought  with  their  blood.  (Loud 
cheers.) 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  wish  to  shew 
the  honorable  member  for  North  Oxford  the 
figures  upon  which  I  have  based  my  calcula- 
tion.    I  find  that  under  the  scheme — 

The  Federal  aid  to  Lower  Canada  is  $    888,531 
do  do     Upper  Canada. .   1,117,590 


$2,006,121 


Of  the  aid  to  Lower  Canada — 
The   Maritime  Provinces  contribute, 

say  l-5th $    177,706 

Upper  Canada   contributes   ^rds  of 

the  balance,  or 473,884 

Lower  Canada  contributes  3rd  do   .      236,941 

$888,531 


Of  the  aid  to  Upper  Canada — 
The  Maritime  Provinces  contribute, 

say  l-5th $    22.3,514 

Lower  Canada,  ^vd  of  balance 298,025 

Upper  Canada,  '|rd3  do.  596,051 

$1,117,590 

Contribution  by  U.C.  toL.C $473,884 

do  by  L.C.  to  U.C   298,025 

$175,859 

Expenses  of  General  Government.  .$8,553,379 

Contribution  by  Mar.  Pro. 

according  to  xMr.  Galt. $1,929,272 
Contribution  by  L.  C,  at 

^rdof  balance 2,208,035 

Contribution  by  U.  C,  at 

•irds  of  balance 4,416,072 

■ $8,553,379 

U.  C.  in  excess  of  Mar.  Prov $2,486,800 

U.  C.  in  excess  of  L.  C 2,208,035 

U.  C.  in  excess  of  both $      278,765 


This  sum  divided  by  17,  the  additional  repre- 
sentatives to  Upper  Canada,  makes  the  cost  of 
each  $16,397  annually. 


682 


Hon.  Mr.  DORION— xMr.  Speaker,  the 
intelligence  received  from  New  Brunswick 
since  the  last  sitting  has  caused  the  question 
of  Confederation,  now  under  discussion,  to 
lose  much  of  its  interest.  P^verjt  one  is  now 
convinced  that  it  is  a  question  which  no 
longer  has  any  real  existence,  and  which 
may  safely  be  shelved  for  some  time  to  come 
at  all  events.  I  deem  it,  however,  to  be  my 
duty  to  make  a  few  observations  in  reply  to 
the  hon.  member  for  Montmorency,  and  to 
allude  in  passing  to  the  speech  of  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  General  East  (Honorable  Mr. 
Lanqeyin).  The  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency  began  his  speech  by  saying 
that  the  members  of  this  House  ought 
to  raise  their  views  above  all  paltry  consid- 
erations of  a  personal  or  party  character, 
and  discuss  the  question  of  Confederation 
upon  its  own  merits,  that  thereby  its  advan- 
tages or  disadvantages  might  be  made  ap- 
parent. And  yet  the  honorable  member  has 
devoted  at  least  one-third  of  his  speech  to 
calling  to  mind  and  discussing  what  I  may 
or  may  not  have  said  in  past  times.  I  have 
already  said,  and  I  repeat  it,  that  I  defy  any 
member  of  this  House  to  cite  a  single  pa.ssage 
from  any  one  of  my  speeches,  or  one  single 
line  of  anything  I  may  have  ever  written,  to 
prove  that  I  have  ever  been  in  favor  of  a 
Confederation  of  the  British  North  American 
Provinces.  In  order  to  produce  a  semblance 
of  proof,  and  with  tne  view  of  making  me 
contradict  myself,  it  has  been  necessary  to 
torture  my  words,  to  falsify  my  speeches,  to 
make  false  translations  of  them ;  and  even 
then  with  all  the  skill  that  has  been  used,  the 
attempt  has  been  unsucccsslul.  The  speech 
which  has  been  quoted  with  the  greatest 
complacency,  to  show  that  I  was  in  favor  of 
the  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  is 
that  which  I  delivered  on  the  3rd  May, 
1860.  This  speech,  which  occupied  nearly 
two  hours  in  its  delivery,  was  reported  in 
about  twenty-five  lines  of  the  Morniny 
Chronicle,  and  only  occupied  a  column  in 
the  Mirror  of  Parliament.  These  two  re- 
ports are  completely  at  variance  one  with 
the  other,  and  neither  of  them  is  exact;  but 
they  are  sufficient,  nevertheless,  to  estab- 
lish the  contrary  of  wliat  it  lias  been 
tried  to  prove.  When  it  was  desired  to 
shew  that  I  was  in  favor  of  representation 
based  upon  po{)ulation,  a  part  ol'  (Iio  n-port 
in  the  Mirror  has  been  eited,  and  when  it  is 
sought  to  establish  that  1  was  in  favor  of 
Confederation,  the  report  of  the  Chronicle 


is  triumphantly  brought  forward.  But  the 
portion  of  the  Mirror  report,  which  is  cited 
in  relation  to  representation,  is  so  absurd 
that  it  suffices  to  read  it  to  be  convinced  that 
I  could  never  have  made  use  of  the  expres- 
sions which  it  contains.  For  instance,  on 
the  ojcasion  of  a  discussion  which  has  but 
an  incidental  relation  to  representation  based 
on  population,  but  which  relates  to  a  Con- 
federation of  the  two  provinces,  I  am  made 
to  say  that  I  have  always  been  opposed  to 
representation  by  population,  but  that  if 
Upper  Canada  desired  to  have  it,  that  I  was 
ready  to  concede  it.  This  is  nearly  the 
contrary  of  what  I  said  on  that  occasion,  for 
I  invariably  make  my  speeches  coincide  with 
my  votes ;  and  as  I  have  invariably  voted 
against  every  proposition  tending  to  the 
concession  of  representation  based  upon 
population,  so  I  have  never  declared  that  I 
was  in  favor  of  that  measure,  but  on  the 
contrary,  I  have  always  declared  that  Lower 
Canada  could  never  consent  to  such  a 
proposition,  because  it  oflFered  no  guarantee 
for  her  institutions.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
now  that  the  question  of  Confederation  is 
under  discussion,  the  Mirror  report  is  set 
aside  and  that  of  the  Chronicle  is  quoted. 
This  report  made  me  say,  in  substance,  that 
I  looked  upon  the  Federal  union  of  Upper 
and  Jjower  Canada  as  the  nucleus  of  the 
great  Confederation  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces,  that  every  one  foresaw 
must  sDoner  or  later  be  eflfected.  The 
expression  used  in  the  report  is  "  to  which 
all  looked  forward."  The  hon.  member  for 
Montmorency,  who  has  brought  this  report 
to  light,  although  he  could  not  be  iu:norant 
that  an  entirely  different  one  was  contained 
in  the  Mirror  of  Parliament,  has  given  the 
text  of  it  by  substituting  the  word  "he" 
for  the  word  "  all,"  and  has  translated  it  so 
as  to  make  me  say,  in  speaking  of  the 
Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  *'  que  je 
rapiielais  </<■  tons  vus  ra;ux,"  and  in  trans- 
lating this  last  expression  into  English,  in 
the  pamphlet  written  by  him  in  18(55,  he 
makes  me  say,  "which  (Confederation)  I 
strongly  desire  to  see."  It  is  enough  to 
read  the  report  in  the  Mirror,  imperfect 
though  it  be,  to  shew  that  I  never  said 
anything  of  the  kind.  This  is  what  I  said 
in  speaking  of  Confederation  ;  — 

Ho  ur^ed  that  the  principle  of  the  double  ma- 
jority could  only  be  applied  by  giving  to  each 
section  of  the  province  the  control  of  ita  local 
affairs,  and  that   when   populations  differed  so 


683 


much  as  did  those  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
it  was  the  only  way  to  govern  them  in  a  satisfac- 
tory manner.  He  hoped,  however,  that  a  time 
mii^ht  come  when  it  would  be  desirable  to  effect 
a  Confederation  with  the  Lower  Provinces,  but 
the  time  had  not  yet  arrived  for  a  measure  of  this 

kind.  *  *  *     .        * 

*  But  those  who  were  in  favor  of  a  Fede- 
ral union  of  all  the  provinces  ought  to  bear  in 
mind  that  a  Federal  union  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  was  the  best  means  of  establishing 
a  nucleus  around  which  the  great  Confederation 
might  be  formed  when   the  proper  time   arrived. 

If  in  this  citation  the  word  "believed"  were 
substituted  for  the  word  "  hoped,"  my  idea 
would  be  correctly  given,  in  very  nearly  the 
language  I  made  use  of  in  May,  1860.  As 
is  quite  clear,  there  is  a  great  diflference  be- 
tween what  I  said  and  the  report  given  by 
the  Chronicle,  which  the  hoQ.  member  for 
Montmorency  has  been  obliged  to  disguise  in 
citing  it,  and  which  he  has  translated  in  the 
most  absurd  manner,  and  all  to  make  it 
appear  that  I  had  expressed  myself  in  a 
manner  favorable  to  Confederation,  and 
thereby  shew  that  I  have  contradicted  my- 
self. That  I  may  have  declared  that  at  some 
future  period,  when  the  population  of  the 
difierent  provinces  should  have  so  increased 
as  to  render  the  settlements  contiguous,  when 
the  means  of  communication  should  have 
been  improved,  and  when,  by  commercial  in- 
tercourse, our  interests  should  have  become 
identical,  and  the  different  populations 
should  constitute,  so  to  speak,  one  united 
people,  it  might  be  of  advantage  to  have  a 
Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  this  I  am 
quite  willing  to  admit;  but  there  is  a  groat 
difference  between  this  anticipation  and  the 
expression  of  a  desire  for  a  Confederation  to 
which  I  have  always  been  opposed,  because 
I  did  not  consider  it  advisable  under  present 
circumstances.  I  find  no  change  in  the  cir- 
cumstances of  the  country  to  lead  me  now 
to  desire  what  I  expressed  my  disap- 
proval of  in  i860.  I  again  assert  that 
I  no  more  pronounced  myself  in  favor 
of  Confederation  then  than  I  have  since  ; 
only  speaking  of  a  proposition  for  establish- 
ing a  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas, 
and  after  several  members  had  spoken  in 
favor  of  a  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces, 
I  made  use  of  the  very  natural  argument, 
"  That  for  those  who  desired  the  great 
Confederation,  there  could  be  no  objection 
to  the  proposition  then  under  consideration, 
because  that  Confederation  would  be  the 
nucleus  around  which  the  other  provinces 


might  gather  when  the  proper  time  arrived." 
The  hon .  member  for  Montmorency  has  spoken 
of  the  contradictions  which  he  has  imagined  to 
exist  between  the  opinions  which  I  expressed 
in  1856,  1858  and  1860,  and  those  which  I 
entertain  at  the  present  time  on  the 
subject  of  the  Confederation  of  the  provinces. 
But  these  contradictions  do  not  really  exist. 
T  have  never  expressed  an  opinion  in  favor 
of  a  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces,  but  of 
the  two  Canadas  only,  and  that  Confederation 
to  which  I  would  have  agreed  as  a  remedy 
for  the  difl&culties  created  by  the  question  of 
the  representation,  had  no  reseniblance  what- 
ever to  that  which  is  now  proposed  to  us. 
By  that  plan  Lower  Canada  would  have  had 
complete  control  of  all  her  local  affairs ; 
tinder  the  present  scheme  her  control  is 
surrounded  by  so  many  restrictions,  that  in 
fact  it  is  the  central  government  which  has 
the  control,  not  only  of  what  relates  to  all 
the  provinces,  but  also  of  what  may  relate 
to  one  of  the  provinces  only.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Before  speaking  of  contradictions,  the  hon. 
member  for  Montmorency  ought  to  bear  in 
mind  that  he  is  more  vulnerable  on  this 
head  than  any  one  else.  He  ought  to 
remember  his  two  pamphlets — one  published 
in  1858,  and  the  other  in  1865  ;  one  going 
to  prove  the  absurdity  of  a  Confederation  of 
all  the  British  North  American  Provinces, 
and  the  other  pointing  out  the  advantages 
we  should  derive  iroui  such  a  Confederation. 
In  the  first  of  these  pamphlets  the  hon.  mem- 
ber, after  having  proposed  27  questions  with  a 
view  to  examine  under  all  its  different  aspects 
the  question  of  a  Federal  union  of  the  two 
Canadas  and  that  of  a  Federal  or  Legislative 
union  of  all  the  provinces,  rejects  alike  both 
these  projects,  because  he  only  saw  in  them 
the  annihilation  of  Lower  Canada.  The  hon. 
member  was  so  thoroughly  convinced  of 
that,  that  of  all  the  propositions  he  gave  the 
preference  to  a  legislative  union,  because  it 
would  come  to  an  end  all  the  sooner.  He 
found  it  more  logical,  looking  at  the  imme- 
diate results  of  the  union.  "  In  fact,  if  we 
must  have  a  union  of  some  kind  of  all  the 
provinces,  and  if  Lower  Canada  is  destined 
to  lose  the  little  influence  which  she  yet  exer- 
cises on  legislation  under  the  existing  union, 
i'^  would  be  better  to  attain  our  object  by  a 
machinery  more  simple,  less  complicated 
and  less  costly."  And  a  little  further  on  he 
adds,  "  As  far  as  we  are  concerned,  we  are 
opposed  to  it.  We  want  no  union  under 
any  form,  aa  it  is  certain  to  attain  the  same 


684. 


end,  no  matter  under  what  form  it  may  be 
imposed  upon  us."  That  is  the  conclusion 
at  which  the  hon.  member  arrived  in  1858, 
after  a  careful  examination  of  the  whole 
question.  In  1865,  matters  are  completely 
changed,  and  the  hon.  member  has  discover- 
ed that  the  only  possible  safety  for  Lower 
Canada  is  to  be  found  in  that  very  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces  which  he 
rejected  with  all  his  might  in  1858.  This 
is  the  conclusion  at  which  he  arrived  in  his 
latest  pamphlet.  "  After  having  carefully 
considered  the  various  schemes  of  union 
with  their  various  conditions  of  existence  we, 
have  proved  that  Confederation  was,  in  <  ur 
present  circumstances,  tho  system  best  calcu- 
lated for  our  protection  and  for  securing  our 
prosperity  in  the  future."  The  hon.  member 
for  Montmorency  explains  this  complete 
change  in  his  views  since  1858,  as  follows  : — 

Until  lately  we  admit  we  were  more  in  favor 
of  a  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas  than  of 
the  grander  scheme,  became  then  we  had  no 
national  aspirations,  and  we  believed  that  we 
should  find  in  it  more  protection  for  the  interests 
of  Lower  Canada.  We  acted  as  though  we  had 
to  deal  with  present  or  probable  enemies,  and 
like  a  good  tactician  we  desired  to  have  as  few 
enemies  arrayed  against  us  as  possible  ;  but  si'  ce 
our  constant  communications  during  the  sittings  of 
the  Convention  with  the  eminent  statesmen  of  the 
Atlantic  Provinces,  many  of  these  apprehensions, 
and  indeed  the  motives  of  opposition,  have  been 
dispelled  from  our  mind. 

So  that  the  mere  contact  which  the  hon. 
member  enjoyed  with  the  political  men  of 
the  Maritime  Provinces,  during  the  fifteen 
days  they  were  here,  has  been  suflBcient  to 
dispel  all  his  apprehensions  for  the  fate  of  the 
in.'-fitutions  of  Lower  Canada  in  the  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces.  It  is  the 
confidence  with  which  these  gentlemeii  have 
inspired  him,  and  not  the  guarantees  offered 
by  the  plan  of  Confederation,  which  have 
changed  his  opinions  of  1»58.  I  find  in  the 
Journal  de  Quebec,  a  newspaper  edited  by 
the  honorable  member  for  Montmorency,  a 
few  very  amusing  passages  upon  the  question 
of  the  confidence  which  ought  to  be  reposed 
in  political  friends.  These  articles  also  date 
from  1858.  The  honorable  momber  was 
then  in  opposition.  It  is  true  that  he  did 
not  look  at  the  honorable  member  for  South 
Oxford  and  myself  in  such  an  unfavorable  light 
as  he  has  since  done.  At  that  tiuie  he  was 
laying  the  whip  pretty  severely  upon  the 
shoulders  of  his  picsent  friends,  j^ut  the 
doctrines  he  then   held   appear   to   be  still 


applicable.  On  the  26th  of  August,  1858, 
the  honorable  member  wrote  an  article  under 
the  heading  "  Les  Amis  les  Unnemis,"  in 
which  he  said  : — 

The  friends,  the  ministerial  supporters  from 
Upper  Canada,  have  endeavored,  during  the 
present  session,  to  impose  upon  us  representation 
based  upon  population,  and  the  abolition  of  sepa- 
rate schools.  A  minister.  Mr.  Smith,  even  voted 
for  representation  based  on  population  I  The 
enemies — the  memhers  of  the  Opposition  — 
have  left  the  initiative  of  these  odious  matters 
to  be  taken  by  our  friends  the  ministerialists  ;  and 
moreover,  to  prove  that  though  they  were  ene- 
mies, they  would  treat  us  better  than  our  friends 
the  ministerialists,  they  were  willing  to  p.iy  the 
seigniors  all  the  casual  rights  due  by  the  censi- 
taires  (£500,<i00).  After  that  we  do  not  ask  too 
much  when  we  ask  that  our  enemies  may  have 
justice 

And  a  little  further  on  he  adds  : — 

Mr.  Cartier  galvanises  a  corpse,  which  starts 
up  in  its  hideousness  only  to  fall  back  never  to 
rise  again.  The  lamp  in  going  out  casts  some 
few  pale  and  feeble  rays,  and  soon  we  shall  have 
the  darkness  of  night.  The  days  of  the  very 
worst  government  which  has  ever  weighed  down 
the  destinies  of  Canada  are  numbered.  There  are 
not  many  of  them,  and  all  the  le-constrnctions 
that  are  possible  will  not  add  one  to  their  number. 

On  the  28th  August,  in  an  article  on 
representation  ba>ed  on  population,  the  hon. 
member  for  Montmorency  expressed  himself 
as  follows : — 


But  friends  may  do  anything  they  like ;  what- 
ever they  do  is  well  done  !  Mr.  Fkugusox.  a 
ministerialist,  will  demand  the  abolition  of  separate 
schools  ;  he  is  ajriend ;  one  must  have  confidence 
in  him  and  kiss  the  Orange  hand  which  strikes 
the  blow.  Mr.  Malcolm  Cameron  will  ask  for 
representation  by  population ;  he  is  anoiheTfritnd, 
and  Mr.  Bkown  is  the  criminal,  Mr.  Buow.v  is  the 
enemy.  The  Administration,  lor  the  first  time  in 
our  parliamentary  annals,  makes  the  question  of 
the  repiesentation  un  open  question.  The  Ministry 
is  composed  of  ten  of  our  most  ardent  and 
loyal  friends;  will  they  deceive  and  betniy  us? 
Mr.  SMrrn,  the  first  among  ihem,  votes  in  the  face 
of  astonished  Lower  Canada  for  representation  by 
population.  He  is  an  Oraugemuu,  one  of  our 
kindest  tViends,  and  of  course  in  his  e.Mreme 
friendship  it  is  his  duty  so  to  vote.  The  mem- 
bers from  Lower  Canada  oughtto  accept  all  tlii.'^, 
and  they  have  accepted  it  with  gratitude!  But 
for  a  rou^e-  an  enemy— to  seek  even  the  tenth  part 
of  all  this,  is  odiouH,  it  is  immoral,  it  is  to  sap  the 
foundation  of  the  country,  it  is  to  deserve  the 
shame  and  death  of  Calvary.  And  would  you 
believe  it? — all  this  indignation  is  expended  lor 
the  benefit  of  a  power  which  has  soiled,  blemish- 


685 


ed  and   corrupted   everytting  in   the    order  of 
morality  and  political  integrity. 

The  hon.  member  for  Montmorency  then 
proceeded  to  speak  of  his  present  friends, 
and  of  the  excuses  offered  by  the  Ministe- 
rial supporters  for  blindly  voting  for  and 
approving  whatever  their  friends  desired 
them  to  vote  for.  Did  an  Orangeman  de- 
mand anything  at  which  their  Catholic  con- 
sciences might  take  alarm,  their  consciences 
were  soon  quieted  by  the  fact  that  "  it  was 
a  friend/'  and  the  Orangeman  obtained  at 
once  what  he  sought;  and  the  hon.  member 
for  Montmorency  declared  that  all  this  had 
been  done  by  a  power  which  had  soiled  and 
corrupted  everything  in  the  order  of  morality 
and  political  integrity.  Now,  he  heartily 
approves  of  all  that  he  then  held  to  be  abomin- 
able and  atrocious,  so  long  as  it  was  pro- 
posed by  his  friends.  Then  he  was  opposed 
to  Confederation  of  any  kind,  because  it  was 
a  certain  means  of  obliterating  the  influence 
of  Lower  Canada,  and  he  preferred  a  legis- 
lative union  to  a  Confederation.  But  now 
his  friends  propose  a  Confederation  of  all 
the  provinces,  and  he  heartily  approves  of 
it.  I  quote  again  from  what  he  said  on  the 
28th  August,  1858  :— 

During  this  session  Confederation  was  found  to 
be  so  unpopular,  that  Mr.  Galt  did  not  dare  to 
ask  a  vote  on  his  informal  resolutions.  But 
hardly  had  he  obtained  power  and  his  views 
were  triumphant,  and  Canada  is  to  bow  her  head 
to  a  new  order  of  things  which  an  instant  be- 
fore had  been  considered  replete  with  danger  and 
rain.  The  policy  of  the  Government  as  regards 
Confederation  :s  not  more  defined  or  tangible  than 
that  of  Mr.  Gait  on  the  same  subject,  and  yet  the 
men  who,  two  days  before,  furiously  demanded 
that  Messrs  Brown  and  Doriox  should  give 
explicit  explanations,  accept  it  with  confidence 
and  with  closed  eyes,  doubtless  because  it  came 
from  their  friends  and  friend  Galt.  Friendship 
has  the  power  of  transforming  principles  and 
things,  good  into  evil  and  evil  into  good,  im- 
morality into  morality,  injustice  into  justice,  and 
consciences  into  inert  machmts,  bendin?  to  the 
movement  given  to  it  by  the  firm  hand  of 
friends. 

I  quote  from  the  paper  of  the  hou.  mem- 
ber for  Montmorency. — I  do  not  say  this 
myself : — 

More  than  this,  the  Ministry  take  upon  them- 
selves to  make  a  Constitution  for  the  people,  aad 
to  change  the  condition  of  Canada  without  con- 
sulting them,  without  taking  the  trouble  even  of 
telling  them  what  they  are  going  to  do  for 
them.  Not  less  than  four  members  of  the 
Government,    they  say,  are  going  to  negotiate 


our  destinies  either  in  Downing-street  or  in  Lom- 
bard-street, but  most  probably  ii.  the  latter,  li 
Confederation  suits  the  ideas  of  the  Grand  Trunk, 
depend  upon  it  we  shall  have  it,  even  thoujh  the 
whole  of  Canada  should  reject  it.  The  JourruiL 
asks  what  will  become  of  the  French  element  in 
the  Confederation.  Eh!  grand  Dinu.  you  may 
see  its  fate  already  in  the  fact  that  out  of  four 
Ministers  sent  to  negotiate  the  transformation, 
not  a  single  one  is  French,  the  happy  individuals 
being  Messrs.  Galt,  Ross,  Maguoxald  and  Rose. 

At  that  time  the  enemies,  that  is  to  say  the 
present  friends  of  the  hon  member,  were 
desirous  of  changing  the  Cocstituti'^n  with- 
out consulting  the  people  and  he  considered 
that  an  atroe.ty  ;  but  now  they  propose  to 
effect  a  revolution  in  our  political  institu- 
tions without  giving  the  people  an  opportu- 
nity of  pronouncing  on  their  schemii,  and 
the  hon.  iiiember  for  Montmorency  warmly 
approves.  It  seems,  when  the  other  day  I 
asserted  that  this  scheme  of  Conftderation 
was  planned  by  the  Grand  Trunk  Company, 
that  I  did  but  express  the  opinion  of  the 
hon.  member  for  Montmorency,  ft  was  he 
who  first  made  this  assertion,  and  not  I. 
"If  the  Grand  Trunk,"  said  he,  "  waatf 
ConfederatioD,  we  are  sure  to  have  it."  In 
those  days  his  friends  the  enemies  desired  to 
sell  the  country ;  now  he  seeks  to  save  it  by 
exactly  the  same  means  that  they  took  to 
ruin  it.  Now  he  no  longer  seeks  to  ascer- 
tain whether  the  plan  of  Confederation  is 
good  or  bad ;  he  only  looks  to  see  that  it  comes 
from  his  friends, and  thatissuflBcient  to  secure 
for  it  his  hearty  approval.  'I'his  scheme  be- 
ing proposed  by  the/riends  and  sunporters  of 
good  principles,  it  cannot  contain  anything 
that  may  endanger  the  institutions  of  Lower 
Canada.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  But 
formerly  it  was  quite  a  different  matter,  when 
the  same  scheme  was  proposed  by  enemies,  the 
present  friends  of  the  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency.  What  constitutes  the  excel 
lence  of  this  scheme  in  the  eyes  of  the  honor 
able  member,  is  that  it  is  not  submitted  by 
rouges  or  annexationists,  but  by  the  represen 
tatives  of  good  principles,  the  guardians  of 
the  interests  of  Lower  Canada.  (Hear,  hear, 
and  laughter.)  Besides,  the  delegates  from  the 
Lower  Provinces,  whom  he  had  looked  upon  as 
enemies  to  Lower  Canada,  inspired  him  with 
such  confidence  during  the  dinners  and  balls  of 
the  Conference,  as  to  have  removed  any  appre- 
hensions under  which  the  honorable  member 
might  before  have  labored.  He  told  us  so 
himself.  For  my  part  I  do  not  believe  that 
the  communication  which  the  honorable  mem- 
ber enjoyed  with  the  delegates  from  the  Lower 


686 


Provinces  during  their  sojourn  here  had  the 
effect  of  changing  his  opinion  on  this  question. 
He  looked  to  see  from  what  side  the  proposi- 
tion came,  and  seeing  that  it  came  from  the 
side  on  which  his  friends  sat,  he  was  at  once 
convinced  that  it  contained  nothing  that  could 
endanger  the  institutions  of  Lower  Canada. 
It  is  evident  that  he  votes  for  it  with  certain- 
ty. In  1858  he  reproached  those  members 
who,  like  the  honorable  member  for  Mont- 
calm (Mr.  Jos.  DuFRESNE),look  quietly  to  see 
from  which  side  measures  come  before  pro- 
nouncing upon  them,  with  only  thinking 
and  acting  according  to  word  of  command 
given  by  the  present  Ministers.  Has  not 
he  also  been  obliged  to  write  a  pamphlet 
of  150  pages  in  1865  to  refute  the  one 
of  forty  pages  which  he  then  wrote  ?  Then 
he  held  to  be  absurd  all  that  was  connected, 
either  nearly  or  remotely,  with  Confederation  ; 
now  he  holds  everything  to  be  right  and  per- 
fect ;  he  is  quite  satisfied,  and  gets  the  promise 
of  all  his  members  to  vote  for  the  scheme  be- 
fore us  without  amendment.  He  throws  his 
hat  in  the  air  and  exclaims — "  Let  us  vote  for 
Confederation  and  for  our  friends."  (Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)  That  honorable  member 
may  be  able  to  discover  contradictions  in  my 
conduct.  He  sees  a  mote  in  his  neighbor's 
eyes  and  seeth  not  the  beam  in  his  own.  But 
let  us  continue  our  examination  of  that  pamph- 
let of  1858.  It  contains  most  precious  inform- 
ation. At  page  15  I  find  the  following  pas- 
sage : — 

The  best  possible  condition  under  which  Con 
federation  could  exist,  would  be  that  in  which 
the  two  chambers  would  be  elected  and  would 
both  have  population  as  the  basis  of  their  num- 
ber, for  no  other  system  excepting  that  of  having 
but  one  ciiamber  only  with  the  number  of  its 
members  based  on  population,  would  give  us  ab- 
solutely one  vote  in  three  in  the  Federal  Legis- 
ture. 

So  in  1858  he  found  that  the  best  we  could 
hope  for,  under  Confederation,  was  that  we 
might  have  two  elective  chambers,  with  a  num- 
ber of  members  proportioned  to  the  popula- 
tion in  each  province,  which  would  have  given 
us  one  vote  in  three.  It  was  the  elective 
system,  with  representation  based  on  popu- 
lation in  each  chan-ber.  In  view  of  the  Con- 
federation of  all  the  provinces,  that  plan  was 
decidedly  better  than  the  one  now  proposed 
to  us,  in  which  Lower  Canada  is  only  to  have 
65  out  of  19-4  in  the  Lower  House,  and  24 
out  of  76  in  the  Legislative  Council,  .'ess 
than  the  proportion  which  we  should  have 
had  under  the  elective  system,  without  taking 


into  account,  that  «s  the  legislative  council- 
lors are  to  be  -appointed  by  the  General  Gov- 
ernment, Lower  Canada  will  exercise  but 
little  influence  as  regards  the  appointment  of 
her  councillors.  But  let  us  see  what  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Montmorency  now  thinks 
of  the  elective  system.  After  having,  in  1856, 
himself  brought  in  the  bill  to  render  the 
Legislative  Council  elective,  and  having  thus 
done  more  than  anyone  else  to  effect  the 
change  which  then  took  place  in  the  consti- 
tution of  that  body,  and  after  having,  in 
1858,  declared  in  writing  that  "  the  best  pos- 
sible terms  that  could  be  obtained  in  Confed- 
eration would  be  the  making  of  the  two 
chambers  elective,"  in  1865  he  says,  at 
page  65  of  his  second  pamphlet : — 

It  was  in  obedience  to  the  general  sentiment, 
and  not  by  conviction,  that  he  who  now  writes 
gave  up,  in  185'J,  an  opinion  which  he  had  always 
held,  and  himself  drafted  the  present  constitution 
of  the  Legislative  Council,  and  it  is  with  genuine 
satisfaction,  and  a  conviction  strengthened  by 
experience,  that  we  greet  the  revival  of  the 
principle  of  Crown  nomination  to  the  Legislative 
Council  under  conditions  superior  to  those  of 
former  times. 

It  would  seem,  then,  that  in  1856  the  honor- 
able member  altered  the  Constitution,  not  as 
the  result  of  conviction,  and  because  he  con- 
sidered it  was  defective,  but  in  obedience  to 
the  general  sentiment ;  that  is  to  say,  that 
being  a  Minister,  he  did  not  wish  to  displease 
his  friends,  who  demanded  that  this  change 
should  be  made,  and  that,  rather  than  sacrifice 
his  portfolio  as  a  Minister,  he  preferred  to 
sacrifice  his  principles  and  convictions.  (Hear, 
hear,  and  laughter.)  Now,  the  honorable 
member  has  no  other  sacrifice  to  make  than 
that  of  his  personal  dignity  ;  this  is  but  a 
trifling  one  ;  and  he  returns  to  his  old  opinions, 
so  as  not  to  displease  his  present  friends. 
He  clung  to  power  in  1856  ;  to-day  he  pays 
homage  to  it;  that  is  the  whole  difference. 
When  the  wind  blew  in  the  direction  of  re- 
form, the  honorable  member  was  a  Reformer, 
not  from  conviction  but  from  interest ;  and 
when  it  blows  in  the  direction  of  absolutism, 
the  honorable  niember  becomes  by  instinct  a 
Conservative  and  a  Tory.  So  he  who,  in 
1856,  obtained  the  passing  of  an  act  to  render 
the  Council  elective  ;  who,  in  1858,  again  pE#- 
nnunced  himself  in  favor  of  the  elective  prin- 
ciple as  applied  to  the  Council,  tells  us  in  1865 
that  ho  greets  with  genuine  satisfaction  the 
revival  of  the  principle  of  Crown  nomination 
oi'thc  Legislative  Councillors.  (Iic;ir,  hear.) 
Ministers  went  on  thoir  knees  to  the  Lower 


687 


Provinces  beseecHng  them  to  come  to  an 
understanding  as  regarded  a  change  of  the 
Constitution,  and  with  respect  to  a  scheme  of 
Confederation.  Explanations  were  the  result, 
which  have  only  been  given  on  a  few  impor- 
tant points  ;  the  delegates  of  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, after  having  obtained  the  most  favor- 
able financial  stipulations  for  those  whom  they 
represented,  have  still  further  imposed  their 
views  and  have  modified  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation in  a  manner  at  variance  with  the 
views  of  our  Ministers;  and  yet,  after  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  have  repudiated  the  action  of 
their  delegates,  the  Government  still  obstin- 
ately persists  in  obtaining  the  adoption  of  the 
scheme  without  any  amendment  whatsoever. 
If  that  resolution  passes,  we  shall  ask  England 
to  change  our  Constitution,  and  to  give  us 
one  which  will  not  be  in  accordance  with  the 
views  of  our  ministers,  and  still  less  with  those 
of  the  people  of  this  province.  But  let  us  see 
what  the  honorable  member  for  Montmorency 
said  in  1858  on  this  subject.  I  cite  from 
page  12: — 

To  ask  Eagland  to  change  the  Constitutioa 
is  to  give  her  an  opportunity  of  changing  it  to 
suit  her  own  views  or  those  of  our  enemies.  Nay, 
more,  to  ask  that  we  should  take  the  first  step  is 
to  claim  it  for  all  the  provinces,  it  is  to  call  i.pon 
them  too  to  say  upon  what  conditions  they  will 
accept  the  Federal  union. 

But  in  the  conflict  of  all  these  voices  one  only 
will  never  be  heard  from  the  Imperial  Thronj, 
because  it  would  be  in  the  French  language.  It 
is  no  prejudice,  it  is  but  the  history  of  our  fifty 
years  of  trial  and  sorrow. 

Have  circumstances  so  greatly  changed  since 
1858  ?  What  has  occurred  since  that  period 
to  give  the  honorable  member  for  Montmorency 
more  confidence  now  in  the  justice  of  England, 
or  iu  the  efficacy  of  our  petitions  than  he  then 
had  ?  Is  not  the  history  of  our  fifty  years  of 
sufferings  vivid  in  the  memories  of  all  ?  When 
we  asked  the  Imperial  Grovernment  to  change 
the  constitution  of  the  Legislative  Council, 
did  they  not  unnecessarily,  and  without  our 
having  sought  it,  repeal  the  clause  which  ren- 
dered necessary  a  two-thirds  vote  to  change 
the  basis  of  the  representation  ?  That  safe- 
guard of  the  interests  of  Lower  Canada  was 
taken  away  from  us  without  our  knowing, 
and  at  the  present  moment  we  do  not  know 
at  whose  instance  that  clause  of  the  Union  Act 
was  expunged.  Have  we  not  similar  reason 
to  fear  that  they  may  impose  on  Lower  Can- 
adi  a  new  Constitution,  with  conditions  which 
will  encroach  upon  the  rights  solemnly  guar- 
anteed to  us  by  treaty  ?    And  this  is  the  more 


probable  from  the  fact  that,  this  scheme  having 
been  rejected  by  the  Lower  Provinces,  England 
will  not  be  desirous  of  enforcing  it  upon 
them,  and  that  if  it  is  adopted  by  the  Imperial 
Parliament,  it  can  only  be  so  adopted  with 
such  modifications  as  will  m  ike  it  applicable 
to  Canada  alone,  leaving  to  the  Lower  Prov- 
inces the  right  of  accepting  it  hereafter;  and 
Heaven  alone  knows  what  these  modifications 
will  be,  and  how  they  may  affect  our  institu- 
tions. (Hear,  hear.)  If  the  Imperial  Par- 
liament thinks  proper  to  take  up  this  Consti- 
tution without  the  acceptance  of  it  by  the 
Maritime  Provinces,  it  will  come  back  to  us, 
as  did  the  answer  to  the  Address  in  relation 
to  the  Legislative  Council,  entirely  different 
from  the  Address  we  are  about  to  vote. 

Hon.  Mr.  EVANTUREL— I  thought  I 
understood,  when  explanations  were  given 
to-day  by  the  Hon.  Atty.  Geu.  West,  that 
the  Grovernment  intended  to  lay  before  Her 
Majesty  the  Address  to  be  passed  by  this 
House,  then  to  ask  the  advice  of  the 
Imperial  Government  as  to  what  they  had 
better  do  under  the  circumstances,  and  then 
return  and  report  to  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  enquired,  in  lan- 
guage as  explicit  as  it  was  possible  to  use, 
of  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  West,  whether  the 
Government  would  submit  a  new  Constitution 
for  ratification  by  the  Legislature,  and  he 
only  replied  that  the  Government  would  sub- 
mit the  whole  matter  to  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment, that  is  to  say,  the  Address  to  be  passed 
by  this  House,  and  an  explanation  of  the 
present  state  of  matters  in  view  of  the  defeat 
of  the  scheme  of  Confederation  in  the  Lower 
Provinces.  He  refused  to  say  that  the  Gov- 
ernment would  come  back  to  the  House  with 
the  measure. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— The  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  would  like  to 
make  the  House  believe  that  it  is  the  inten- 
tion of  the  Government  to  cause  a  measure 
to  be  passed  by  the  Imperial  Government 
against  the  wishes  of  this  House ;  but  no  such 
conclusion  can  be  drawn  from  the  explana- 
tions given  by  my  honorable  friend  the  Hon. 
Atty.  Gen.  West.  He  stated  that  a  deputa- 
tion would  go  to  England,  and  that  they  would 
submit  to  the  Imperial  Government  the  ad- 
dresses of  the  two  Houses,  containing  the  plan 
of  Confederation  adopted  by  the  delegates  of 
all  the  provinces,  and  that  they  would  urge 
upon  the  Imperial  Government  to  bring  down 
a  measure  that  should  apply  to  all  the  prov- 
iiiccs 

Hon.   Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— That   is 


688 


not  saying,  however,  that  the  new  Constitu- 
tion will  be  submitted  to  the  House  on  the 
return  of  the  deputation.     (Hear,  bear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Ge.v.  CART  IE  R— Nor  is  it 
saying,  either,  that  it  is  without  the  consent 
of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORTON— What  I  wish  to  say 
is,  that  it  is  perfectly  clear  that  the  House  will 
not  be  cilled  upon  to  pronounce  upon  the 
new  Constitution  which  is  to  be  given  to  us, 
no  matter  what  changes  may  be  introduced 
iuto  the  resolutions  on  which  we  are  now 
called  upon  to  vote.  (Hiar,  hear.)  The 
Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  East  cannot  say  that  the 
Government  will  submit  to  the  House  the 
result  of  the  advice  which  they  may  receive 
from  the  Imperial  Government.  (Hear, 
hear.)  All  that  we  can  understand  from 
the  Governmout  is,  that  they  will  press  the 
adoption  cf  the  measure  by  this  Houie, 
and  that,  if  they  can  pass  it,  they  will 
ask  the  Imperial  Government  to  give  us  a 
Constitution  based  on  these  resolutions,  and 
that  this  Constitution  will  be  imposed  on 
the  country  without  either  the  House  or 
the  people  being  called  upon  to  ratify  it, 
even  although  it  be  altogether  dififerent  from 
the  resolutions  now  submitted  to  us.  (Hear, 
hear.)  As  in  1856  we  saw  the  clause  of 
the  Union  Act,  which  required  the  concurrence 
of  two-thirds  of  the  members  of  the  House  to 
authorize  a  change  in  the  basis  of  the  repre- 
sentation, repealed  without  any  application  on 
our  part  for  its  repeal,  so  we  shall  perhaps  see 
in  this  new  Constitution  which  is  to  be  given 
to  us,  that  the  principle  of  Confederation 
will  hiive  been  sacrificed  in  order  that  a  legisla- 
tive union,  pure  and  simple,  may  be  imposed 
upon  \js.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  this  is  the 
more  probable  now,  that  it  is  well  known  that 
the  Mariii'iie  Provinces  have  repudiated  the 
plan  of  Cuul'ederation  in  its  present  shape. 

Hon.  Atxy.  Gen.  CARl  lEK— We  shall 
make  a  small  Cunl'ederatioa  by  dividing  Can- 
ada into  four  parts.  (Laughter.)  That  is 
what  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
promised  the  honorable  member  for  South 
Oxford  when  he  formed  his  Government. 
There  should  be  little  men,  little  provinces, 
and  a  little  Coui'ederation.     (Laughter.) 

A  VOICE — Now-a-days  the  Government 
has  only  gieat  pnjects. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Yes  ;  we 
propose  great  measures,  aud  what  is  more,  we 
carry  them. 

Hon.  iMii.  DORION— Yet  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  has  undertaken  to  grant  u 
Utile  Coaftiderutiun,  aud   to   divide  us  into 


little  provinces  if  the  grander  scheme  does  not 
pass,  and  he  has  a  very  fair  chance  to  come 
back  to  little  matters.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency,  after 
having  expressed  his  opinion  with  respect  to 
the  constitution  which  ought  to  be  provided 
for  the  Legislative  Council,  in  order  to 
the  protection  of  our  interests,  said  in  that 
pamphlet  of  1853,  on  the  subject  of  Con- 
federation : — 

The  object  of  Confederation  is  external  pro- 
tection ;  it  can  defend  itself  from  enemies  from 
without,  but  it  could  not  defend  itself  against 
itself.  It  was  not  with  a  view  to  social  improve- 
ment, not  to  attaiu  a  more  perfect  and  complete 
internal  political  organization,  that  the  American 
colonies  and  the  small  states  of  Germany,  who 
wished  to  remain  independent,  had  recourse  to 
Confederation  ;  it  was  for  mutual  protection 
against  enemies  from  without,  and  for  that  only. 
Now  we  have  England  to  protect  us,  the  political 
Confederation  of  the  provinces  is  therefore  absurd. 
But  if  it  be  at  once  absurd  and  fatal,  why 
should  we  persist  in  demanding  it? 

These  are  the  opinions  of  the  honorable 
member  for  Montmorency  : — 

Were  we  to  have  a  Confederation  of  the  pro- 
vinces, they  would  soon  range  themselves  into 
two  distinct  camps  ;  and  if  we  are  to  judge  of  the 
past  by  the  present,  it  is  needless  to  say  to  what 
dangers  Lower  Canada  would  be  exposed.  [And 
a  little  further  on,  he  adds]  :  When  once  we 
have  admitted  a  principle,  not  only  we  have  to 
admit  the  consequences,  but  even  to  suffer  them 
to  our  ruiu.  The  consequences  of  Confederation 
would  be  the  ruin  of  Lower  Canada. 

The  honorable  member  for  Montmorency  was 
convinced  that  the  Confederation  of  the  pro- 
vinces could  not  be  effected  without  having 
recourse  to  direct  taxation,  which  loomed  up 
constantly  bei'ore  his  eyes — (hear,  hear)  : — 

Direct  taxation  for  the  maintenance  and  to 
carry  out  the  objects  of  the  local  legislatures,  are 
a  necessity  of  the  Federal  system  ;  and  if  Lower 
Canada  was  to  refuse  to  tax  herself  to  pay  the 
expenses  of  its  Government  and  Leg  slature,  it 
would  be  forced  iuto  doing  it ;  bearing  in  mind  the 
refusal  in  days  past  of  its  House  of  Assembly  to 
vote  the  supplies,  they  would  treat  Ler  as  they 
did  in  1840. 

Thus  the  great  Confederation,  so  fatal  and 
absurd,  would  be  the  ruin  of  Lower  Canada. 
Now  for  a  little  description  of  our  new  friends 
in  the  Maritime  Provinces  : — 

What  advantage  can  Canada  hope  to  obtain  in 
the  consolidation  of  the  revenues  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces? 

Whilst  the  united  revenues  of  the  four  Atlantio 
proviucos  hardly  reach  the  sum  of  four  hundred 


689 


thousand  pounds,  and  whilst  not  one  of  these 
provinces  has  much  in  the  future  with  the  excep- 
tion of  New  Brunswick,  Newfoundland  with  its 
cold  climate,  its  barren  soil,  like  that  of  the  north 
shore  of  our  Lower  St.  Lawrence,  will  never  be 
more  than  a  fishing  station,  to  which,  besides,  we 
have  access  in  common  with  all  the  other  nations 
of  the  world.  Nova  Scotia  is  another  fishing  sta- 
tion, to  which  also  we  have  access  in  common  with 
everyone  else.  It  has  no  soil  fit  for  cultivation. 
Its  revenue  remains  stationary,  or  diminishes  like 
the  population  of  its  capital,  Halifax  (although 
situated  at  the  extremity  of  one  of  the  most  mag- 
nificent harbors  in  the  world), which,  in  1840,  had 
25,000  inhabitants  in  its  wooden  houses,  and 
which  now  affords  shelter  to  fifteen  thousand  hu- 
man beings  only.  »  «  • 

They  are  poor,  and  seek  an  alliance  with  the  rich. 
They  have  good  reason;  were  we  in  their  place, 
we  would  do  the  same. 

That  is  bis  account  of  the  new  allies  he  now 
proposes  to  give  us.  (^Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.) And  now  passing  to  the  question  of 
religion,  this  is  what  we  find : — 

In  the  existing  union  the  Protestants  are 
slightly  the  most  numerous,  at  least  according  to 
the  census  of  1850.  The  proposed  union  would 
increase  the  Protestant  strength,  for  the  very 
great  majority  of  the  populations  of  Nova  Scotia 
and  New  Brunswick  is  Protestant,  and  New- 
foundland, in  which  Catholicism  prevails,  is  too 
poor,  both  at  present  and  in  prospective,  with  its 
barren  soil,  to  give  any  strength,  or  even  hope,  to 
Catholicism.  Protestantism  would  thus  be  more 
powerful  in  a  union  of  all  the  provinces  than  it 
is  now  in  the  existinor  union  of  the  Canadas. 

I  think  I  need  say  no  more.  I  think  that 
the  reasons  adduced  by  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Montmorency  from  the  French-Cana- 
dian point  of  view,  against  the  union  of  the 
provinces  in  1858,  exist  at  the  present  day, 
and  that  they  have  greater  force  now  than 
they  had  then  ;  and  this  is  the  more  evident 
when  we  see  all  the  members  from  Upper 
Canada  declare  that  Confederation  is  not 
what  they  want,  but  that  they  would  prefer 
a  legislative  union.  This  fact  ought  to  add 
to  our  alarm,  and  convince  us  of  the  danger  to 
which  we  should  be  exposed  by  this  union. 
The  honorable  member  for  Montmorency  now 
encourages  his  friends  to  proceed  to  England 
and  obtain  its  adoption  by  the  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment, and  its  imposition  on  the  Maritime 
Provinces  as  well  as  upon  Canada.  It  is  an 
appeal  to  Great  Britain  to  pass  a  measure 
upon  the  application  of  the  Canadian  Govern- 
ment, and  to  impose  it  upon  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces, after  making  such  modifications  to  it 
as  would  satisfy  them.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Montmorency,  animadverting  upon  a 
88 


letter  which  I  wrote  last  autumn  to  my  con- 
stituents, in  which  I  asserted  that  no  prece- 
dent existed  for  a  Federal  union  between 
mere  colonies,  has  cited,  in  refutation  of  my 
statement,  the  case  of  New  Zealand.  New 
Zealand  is  composed  of  three  islands,  divided 
into  eleven  provinces,  each  of  which  possesses 
a  sort  of  municipal  council  which  is  called 
a  government,  just  as  the  municipalities  are 
called  provinces.  Each  province  has  a  head 
or  executive  ofiicer,  elected  by  the  people, 
and  charged  with  the  carrying  out  of  the 
laws.  The  municipal  councils  have  the  power 
of  legislating,  but  their  powers  are  restricted 
within  very  narrow  limits.  They  cannot  in- 
terfere even  with  the  laws  relating  to  wills 
and  successions,  whilst,  on  the  other  hand,  the 
Central  Government  has  the  right  to  legislate 
on  all  matters  afiecting  the  colony.  The  po- 
litical system  of  New  Zealand  is  exactly  like 
our  county  and  parish  municipal  system. 
Our  county  municipalities  represent  the  cen- 
tral power,  and  our  parish  municipalities  re- 
present the  local  governments.  Had  the  hon. 
member  for  Montmorency  examined  the  Con- 
stitution of  Belgium,  he  would  have  seen  that 
there,  there  are  provinces  which  each  have  a 
Governor  and  a  Local  Parliament,  and  these 
parliaments  have  much  greater  powers  than 
the  local  councils  in  New  Zealand,  and  are 
much  more  important ;  yet  no  one  has  ever 
ventured  to  assert  that  Belgium  was  a  Con- 
federation, although  it  was  divided  into  pro- 
vinces. Neither  is  the  French  Empire  a  Con- 
federation, although  its  departments  are  gov- 
erned by  Prefets.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon. 
member  for  Montmorency  has  told  us  that 
our  interests  would  be  perfectly  protected  by 
the  proposed  Constitution.  I  find  that  the 
powers  assigned  to  the  General  Parliament 
enable  it  to  legislate  on  all  subjects  whatso- 
ever. It  is  an  error  to  imagine  that  these 
powers  are  defined  and  limited  by  the  29  th 
clause  of  the  resolutions.  Were  it  desirous 
of  legislating  on  subjects  placed  under  the 
jurisdiction  of  the  local  legislatures,  there  is 
not  a  word  in  these  resolutions  which  can  be 
construed  to  prevent  it,  and  if  the  local  legis- 
latures complain.  Parliament  may  turn  away 
and  refuse  to  hear  their  complaints,  because 
all  the  sovereignty  is  vested  in  the  General 
Government,  and  there  is  no  authority  to  de- 
fine its  functions  and  attributes  and  those  of 
the  local  governments. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— What  do 
you  understand  by  sovereign  power — please 
explain  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  will  tell  you  in  a 


690 


moment.  I  say  that  the  Federal  Parliament 
will  exercise  sovereign  power,  inasmuch  as  it 
can  always  trespass  upon  the  rights  of  the 
local  governments  without  there  being  any 
authority  to  prevent  it.  "What  authority  have 
you  constituted  which  can  come  forward  and 
say  to  the  Federal  Parliament — "  You  shall 
not  do  such  and  such  a  thing,  you  shall 
not  legislate  upon  such  and  such  a  subject, 
tecause  these  matters  are  reserved  to  the  local 
governments."  There  will  be  no  such  author- 
ity, and  consequently  it  will  have  sovereign 
power,  and  can  do  all  that  it  pleases,  and  may 
encroach  upon  all  the  rights  and  attributes  of 
the  local  governments  whenever  it  may  think 
proper.  We  shall  be — I  speak  as  a  Lower 
Canadian — we  shall  be  at  its  mercy,  because 
it  may  exercise  its  right  of  veto  on  all  the 
legislation  of  the  local  parliaments,  and  there 
again  we  shall  have  no  remedy.  In  case  of 
difference  between  the  Federal  power  and  the 
local  governments,  what  authority  will  inter- 
vene for  its  settlement  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  will  be 
the  Imperial  Government. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— In  effect  there  will 
be  no  other  authority  than  that  of  the  Impe- 
rial Government,  and  we  know  too  well  the 
value  assigned  to  the  complaints  of  Lower 
Canadians  by  the  Imperial  Government. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— The  dele- 
gates understood  the  matter  better  than  that. 
Neither  the  Imperial  Government  nor  the 
General  Government  will  interfere,  but  the 
courts  of  justice  will  decide  all  questions  in 
relation  to  which  there  may  be  differences 
between  the  two  powers. 

A  VOICE — The  Commissioners'  courts. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Undoubtedly.  One 
magistrate  will  decide  that  a  law  passed  by 
the  Federal  Legislature  is  not  law,  whilst 
another  will  decide  that  it  is  law,  and  thus 
the  difference,  instead  of  being  between 
the  legislatures,  will  be  between  the  several 
courts  of  justice. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Should 
the  General  Legislature  pass  a  law  beyond 
the  limits  of  its  functions,  it  will  be  null  and 
void  p^e/to  jure. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Yes,  I  understand 
that,  and  it  is  doubtless  to  decide  questions 
of  this  kind  that  it  is  proposed  to  establish 
Federal  courts. 

Hon.  Atty.  Ge.n.  CARTIER— No,  no! 
They  will  be  established  solely  to  apply  and 
adjudicate  upon  the  Federiil  laws. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— In   Great   Britain, 


Parliament  is  all-powerful,  every  one  admits 
it — and  I  would  like  to  know  whether  it  is 
proposed  to  give  to  the  Federal  Parliament  the 
omnipotence  enjoyed  by  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment.    "Without  that,  the  system  proposed  to 
be  established  is  no  longer  a  political  monar- 
chical system,  but  rather  a  vast  municipality. 
If  all  the  courts  of  justice  are  to  have  the 
right  of  deciding  as  to   the  legality  of  the 
laws,  the  Federal  Parliament  will  not  be  able 
to  make  them  without  a  justice  of  the  peace 
or  commissioner  of  small  causes  setting  them 
aside,  under  the  pretext  that   they  are  not 
within  the  jurisdiction  of  the  central  power, 
as  is  now  done  in  the  case  of  a  j^^'ocis-ierbal 
of  road  work.     That  is  not  the  monarchical 
system;  it  is  the  republican  system.     In  Eng- 
land, as  it  is  here  at  the  present  moment,  the 
Legislature  is  all-powerful,  and  I  believe  that 
that  was  the  principle  which  it  was  sought  to 
adopt.     If  the  differences  between  the  Fed- 
eral and  the  Local  Parliaments  are  not  to  be 
subvuiited  to  the  decision  of  a  Supreme  Fed- 
eral Court,  I  do  not  see  who  can  possibly 
decide  them.     (Hear,  hear.)     We   are  told 
that  the  Federal  Court  of  Appeals  will  not  be 
charged  with  the  decision  of  matters  in  dis- 
pute between  the  legislatures,  but  they  will 
only  have  to  give  final  judgments  in  cases  de- 
cided by  the  local  inferior  courts.     Well,  for 
my  part  I  cannot  approve  of  the  creation  of 
this  court.     The  great  inconveniences  of  it 
to  us  Lower  Canadians  may  easily  be  seen. 
Thus,  when  a  cause  shall  have  been  argued 
and  decided  in  all  our  courts,  we  shall  still 
have  to  go  before  a  Federal  Court  of  Appeal 
composed  of  judges  of  all  the  provinces,  and 
in  which  we  shall  probably  have  only  one 
judge,  who  may  be  selected  out  of  the  Eng- 
lish population.     And  this  is  the  protection 
afforded  to  us.     I  repeat  that  I  see  no  protec- 
tion whatever  for  our  interests,  as  Lower  Cana- 
dians, in  the  constitution  of  the  political  and 
judicial  powers,  for  the  Federal   Parliament 
can  encroach  upon  our   rights  without  any 
authority  having  the  power  to  interfere,  and 
then  we  shall  have  a  Federal  Court  of  ,\ppeal 
in  which  we  shall  only  be  represented   by  one 
judge  against  six  or  seven  of  other  origin."?. 
(Hear,   hear.)     There   is  another   and   very 
important  (jucstion  to  be  considered,  and  that 
is  as  to  what  is  meant  by  paragraph  iiO  of  the 
29th  resolution,  in  relation  to  marriage  and 
divorce.     I    see,  not    without  apprehension, 
that  it  is  left  to  the  General  I'arliameut  to 
legislate  on  all  matters  relating  to  marrii^e 
and  divorce.     The  (luostion  of  marriage  is  in- 
timately connected  with  a  large  portion  of  our 


691 


code  and  civil  rights,  for  upon  marriage  de- 
pends the  settlement  of  family  interests   and 
successions,    and  the  civil    condition  of  the 
population.     If  the  right  of  legislating  on  all 
matters  connected  with  marriage    is    left  to 
the    Federal    Parliament,   it    will  have    the 
right    to   declare   that  a  marriage   contract- 
ed elsewhere  will  be   valid  in    the    Confed- 
acy,    provided    it    has    been    contracted    in 
accordance    with    the    laws    of   the    country 
in    which  it  took   place,   as   stated    by  the 
Honorable  Solicitor  General  East,  for  it  is  a 
principle  of  international  law  perfectly  under- 
stood in  every  country  of  the  civilized  world, 
and  which  it  would  be  impossible  to  alter, 
and  it  was  of  no  use  whatever  to  insert  it  in 
the  Constitution.     I  say,  then,  that  not  only 
will  the  Federal  Government  have  this  power, 
but  they  will  also  be  able  to  change  the  civil 
conditions  of  marriage  which  now  constitute 
a  part  of  our  code.     But  if  it  is  sought  to 
remove  from  the  local  legislatures  the  right  of 
legislating    respecting   the  conditions    under 
which  a  marriage  may  be  contracted,  the  age 
at  which  marriage  is  to  be  allowed,  the  degree 
of  relationship  whit-h  shall  be  an  impediment  to 
marriage,  the  consent  of  the  relations,  and  the 
requisite  dispensations  which  are  now  required 
to  be  obtained  from  the  ecclesiastical  authori- 
ties, then  I   can  understand  why .  this  article 
has  been  inserted  in  the  resolutions,  and  that 
the  right  to  do  rJl  this  is  to  b  ;  vested  in  the 
Federal  Parliament.     If  it  is  desired  that  a 
minor  should  be  allowed  to  marry,  as  he  can 
in  countries  in  which  the  laws  of  England 
prevail,  without  the  consent  of  his  relations, 
I  can  conceive  the  reason  for  placing  the  right 
to  legislate  respecting  marriage  in  the  hands 
of  the  Federal  power  ;  bu.t  if  that  was  not  the 
object  in  view,  I  see  no  reason  why  the  right 
to  le2:islate  on  this   subjc  t  has  not  been  left 
to  the  local  governments.     (Hear,  hear.)     I 
should  see  with  considerable  apprehension  and 
aiarm  this  power  uiven  to  the  Genei  al  Parlia- 
ment, because  it  will  be  composed  of  men  who 
have  ideas  entirely  at  variance  with  ours  in 
relation  to  marriage.     As  regarJs  the  ques- 
tion of  divorce,  we  have  had  every  kind  of 
explanation  as  to  the  meaning  of  the  resolution 
of  the  Conference.     The  Honorable  Solicitor 
General  of  Lower  Cannda  (Hon.  Mr.  L Ange- 
vin), who   last  year  made   so  great  a  luss 
because  a  divorce  suit  came  before  the  Houso, 
and  who  even  moved  the  rejection  of  the  bill 
at  its  first  reading,  has  been  brought  to  terms 
on  the  subject,    and  has  discov.  red    that  it 
would  be  a  good  thing  to  have  an  authority 
for  the  settlement  of  this  matter.     Last  year 


he  said  that  it  was  impossible  for  a  Ca-holic 
to  sanction  even  the  first  reading  of  a  divorce 
iiill,   and  he  made  us  a  long  speech  on  the 
subject,  but  he  has  found  out  his  mistake, 
and  he  is  unwilling  that  the  local  legislature 
should  legislate  on  divorce,  but  he  vests  this 
right  in  the  Federal  Parliament,  and  author- 
izes it  to  do  f-.o.     He  cannot  himself  legislate, 
but  he  allows  another  to  do  ^o  for  him.     Well, 
I  do  not  think  that  this  is  any  im[)rovement 
on  the  existi:3g  state  of  things,   and  I  think 
that  divorce  is  more  likely  i)  be  prevented  by 
leaving  the  subject  among  the  fund  ions  of 
the  loca.  legislatures,  at  ;.ll  events  as  far  as 
Lower  Canada  is  concerned,  than  by  leaving 
it   to    the   Federal    Parliameut.      Bat   I  go 
further,   and  I  say  that  the  leaving  of  this 
question  to  the  Federal  Legislature  is  t  ■/  in- 
troduce  divorce  a  ;  ong  the  Cathoiics.     It  is 
certain    that   at   present   no    Catholic   could 
obtain  a  divorce  either  in  the  present  House 
or  irom  the  Local  Legislature  of  Lower  Can- 
ada under  (Joufederaviou.     But  suppose  that 
the  Federal  Parliament   were  to  enact  that 
there  shall  be  divorce  courts  in  each   section 
of  the  province,  the  Catholics  will  have  the 
same  ace  ss  to  them  as  tlie  Protesiauts.     And 
who  is  to  prevent   the  Fedeial   Legi  lature 
from  establishing  a  tribunal  of  t'lis  kind  in 
Lower  Canada,  if  t,.ey  are  established  else- 
where ?     In   that   case — if  tribunals  of  this 
kind  arc;  established — will  not  the  Honorable 
Solicitor  General,   if  h.  votes  for  this  r.s  :lu 
tion,   have    voted    for   the   establishment   of 
divoice   courts   over   the   whole   country,  to 
whi;h   Catholics   and  Protestants   can    have 
recourse  lor  obtaining  a  divorce?     That   is 
the  only  conclusion  it  is  possible  to  arrive  at, 
and  the  legitimate  consequence  of  the  votes 
of  those  Catholics  who  will  vote  to  vest  this 
power  in  the   Federal  Parliament,     (Hear, 
hear.)     It   is   evident   that  a  Catholic   who 
thinks  that  he  cannot  vote  for  a  Divorce  bill 
ought  not  to  vote  indirectly  for  the  establish- 
ment of  Divorce  courts*,  any  more  than  to  vote 
directly    Ibr   it.  ■  The    Honor  ble    Solicitor 
General  East  told  us  the  other  day  that  he 
had  recently  obtained  the  annulment  of  a  Mjar- 
riage,  because  the  parties,  being  relations,  had 
married  without  dispensation. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— I  never 
pretended  that  that  was  a  divorce.  I  said 
that  if  the  c  se  of  annulment  of  marriage  to 
which  I  referred  hud  arisen  iu  Upper  Canada, 
the  Ecclesiastical  courts  might  have  declared 
the  marriage  null  as  far  as  the  ca.;on  law  was 
concerned,  but  not  as  regarded  the  civil  laws, 
lor  the  law  of  Upper  Canada  does  not  recog- 


692 


nize  the  impediments  to  marriage  provided  by 
the  Canon  law,  and  that  the  husband  and  wife 
would  have  been  obliged  to  apply  to  Parlia- 
ment to  obtain  their  separation.  And  I  stated 
that  this  separation  could  nr t  be  looked  upon 
as  a  divorce  from  a  Catholic  point  of  view, 
although  the  Act  of  Parliament  might  be 
called  a  Divorce  bill. 

Mr.  GEOFFMON— Would  Parliament 
grant  a  divorce  on  the  ground  of  relationship  ? 

Hon.  Sol  Gen.  LANGEVIN— I  can  cite 
other  cases,  as,  for  instance,  that  of  a  Catholic 
married  to  an  infidel  who  had  not  been  bap- 
tized, without  being  aware  at  the  time  of  the 
marriage  that  this  impediment  existed.  If 
he  discovers  the  fact  afterwards,  he  is  not 
married  as  far  as  the  Canon  law  is  concerned. 
If  the  wife  is  not  willing  to  consent  to  the 
obtaining  of  the  necessary  dispensations  to 
render  her  marriage  valid,  she  may,  in  Lower 
(Janada,  apply  to  the  Ecclesiastical  court  to 
have  it  annulled,  but  in  Upper  Canada  she 
would  also  have  to  apply  to  Parliament. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— Could  a  divorce  be 
obtained  from  Parliament  on  the  ground  of 
relationship  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— It  would 
be  proved  before  Parliament  that  the  mar- 
riage contracted  under  these  circumstances  is 
null  as  regards  the  Canon  law  and  the  law  of 
Lower  Canada.  There  are  ecclesiastical  au- 
thorities in  Upper  Canada  just  as  there  are  in 
Lower  Canada,  but  as  the  Civil  law  there  is 
not  the  same  as  it  is  here,  the  couple  whose 
marriage  would  be  void  under  the  Canon  law 
but  not  under  the  Civil  law — for  in  the  eyes 
of  the  law  the  marriage  would  be  valid  and 
binding,  and  neither  husband  nor  wife  could 
remarry  without  having  obtained  a  divorce — 
the  couple,  I  say,  would  have  the  right  of  ap- 
plying to  Parliament,  who  might  legally  de- 
clare that  marriage  null  which  had  been  so 
declared  by  the  ecclesiastical  authorities. 
But  the  nullity  of  the  marriage  must  first  be 
proved  to  the  satisfaction  of  the  ecclesiastical 
authorities  and  under  the  Canon  law,  and 
then  Parliament  might  annul  it  on  that  evi- 
dence, for  it  would  be  omnipotent. 

Hon.  Mr.  DOlllON— Then  the  Federal 
Parliament  will  be  omnipotent  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CAllTIEIl  — Yes,  in 
that  respect. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — But  even  supposing 
that  the  Federal  Parliament  would  interfere 
in  such  a  case,  which  is  a  matter  of  doubt, 
the  Local  (jiovernment  would  also  have  had 
the  right  to  interfere  if  the  power  so  to  do 
had  been  given  to  it.     Moreover,  this  would 


not  be  a  case  of  divorce  ;  it  would  simply  be 
the  declaration  that  no  marriage  had  ever 
taken  place,  which  is  quite  a  different  matter. 
In  Lower  Canada  the  Canon  law  forms  part 
of  our  Civil  law,  but  in  Upper  Canada  it  is 
not  so,  and  the  law  there  does  not  recognize 
the  right  of  the  ecclesiastical  authorities  to 
declare  a  marriage  null.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
think,  then,  that  the  explanation  of  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  General  is  not  of  more  value  than 
that  which  he  gave  us  on  the  subject  of  mar- 
riage, for  it  docs  not  in  the  least  prove  that 
the  Federal  Parliament  have  not  the  power 
to  establish  Divorce  courts  in  all  the  pro- 
vinces, and  the  resolution  docs  not  admit  of 
the  construction  that  the  Federal  Parliament 
will  only  have  the  right  of  declaring  void 
marriages  declared  to  be  so  by  the  Catholic 
ecclesiastical  authorities.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
perceive  that  the  subject  of  immigration  is 
left  to  the  General  Government,  concurrently 
\vith  the  local  governments.  I  think  that 
danger  lies  in  the  provision  that  the  General 
Government  is  to  appoint  all  our  judges.  It 
is  said,  as  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
East  stated  the  other  day,  that  there  will  be 
French-Canadians  in  the  Executive  of  the 
Federal  Government,  but  their  number  will 
be  limited,  and  if  the  Executive  is  composed 
of  fifteen  members  for  instance,  there  will 
only  be  one  or  two  French-Canadians  at  the 
most.  Well,  suppose  the  French-Canadian 
Ministers  recommend  the  appointment  of  a 
person  as  judge,  and  that  all  their  colleagues 
oppose  it,  the  former  will  have  the  right  to 
protest,  but  the  majority  will  carry  the  day, 
and  all  that  the  minority  can  do  will  be  to 
retire  from  the  Government.  But  in  that 
case  they  will  be  replaced,  and  things  will  go 
on  as  before.  That  is  all.  The  same  argu- 
ment applies  to  the  appointment  of  logif^lativc 
councillors ;  and  when  I  call  to  mind  all  the 
injustices  committed  by  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil of  Lower  Canada,  which  was  nominated 
by  the  Crown,  and  in  a  spirit  hostile  to  the 
great  mass  of  the  population,  I  cannot  con- 
ceive that  French-Canadians  can  be  found 
who  arc  willing  to  return  to  that  system. 
Will  they  not  remember  that  it  was  that  sys- 
tem which  closed  our  common  schools,  by  re- 
fusing to  vote  the  supplies  granted  by  the 
Legislative  Assembly,  and  thereby  delayed, 
for  years  and  years,  the  progress  of  education 
in  Ijowcr  Canada.  The  honorable  member 
for  Montmorency  says  that  ^v^^  must  have  a 
conservative  chamber,  and  Ili.it  our  J^egisln- 
tivc  Council,  under  Confederation,  will  be 
I  less  conservative  than  the  Belgian  Senate,  be- 


69B 


cause  tlie  elective  qualification  of  the  Belgian 
senators  is  higher  tlian  that  of  our  legislative 
councillors.  The  Belgian  Senate  is  elected 
for  eight  years,  and  is  renewed  by  one-fourth 
at  a  time. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Every  four  years, 
by  one-half. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Yes ;  the  honorable 
member  is  right.  The  term  for  which  each 
senator  is  elected  is  eight  years,  and  the 
elections  take  place  for  one-half  of  them  every 
four  years,  and  another  change  in  the  compo- 
sition of  the  Senate  can  also  take  place,  because 
it  may  be  dissolved  like  the  Lower  House. 
Now,  under  these  circumstances,  there  can  be 
no  clashing  of  any  duration  between  the  two 
Belgian  Chambers,  and  the  Senate  cannot 
obstruct,  for  an  indefinite  period,  the  action  of 
the  LoAver  House.  If  a  difi'erence  should 
arise  between  the  two  bodies,  the  Government 
can  remedy  it  by  new  elections,  by  which 
senators  would  be  returned  favorable  to  the 
views  of  the  people.  Thus  the  Senate  is  not 
conservative,  from  the  sole  fact  of  the 
electoral  qualification  of  the  senators  being 
very  high.  What  I  consider  excessive  and  of 
a  too  conservative  character  in  the  constitu- 
tion of  the  Legislative  Council  of  the  Con- 
federation, is  that  no  power  exists  which  can 
change  its  composition  in  the  case  of  a  col- 
lision between  it  and  the  House  of  Com- 
mons. The  councillors  will  be  appointed  for 
life,  and  their  number  is  fixed.  By  what 
means  shall  we  be  able  to  prevent  the  Legis- 
lative Council  from  stopping  the  progress  of 
business  if  a  difference  should  arise  witli  the 
Lower  House  ?  Tlie  honorable  member  for 
Montmorency  says  that  the  obstacle  will  be 
broke.n  down  ;  but  if  no  other  remedy  than 
that  is  provided,  I  say  that  the-  principle  is 
faulty.  It  does  not  do,  when  we  frame  a 
Constitution,  to  open  the  door  to  obstacles 
which  can  only  be  surmounted  by  breaking 
them  down.  (Hear,  hear.}  In  England, 
where  the  House  of  Lords  is  very  conserva- 
tive, the  Crown  has  power  to  name  new  peers, 
aod  it  is  precisely  the  possession  of  that 
power  of  creating  new  peers  which  has  pre- 
vented the  breaking  down  of  the  obstacle — 
which  prevented  a  revolution  in  1832.  The 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency  himself 
admits  that  at  that  period  England  was  on 
the  eve  of  a  revolution,  and  that  it  would 
have  happened  if  the  House  had  any  longer 
refused  to  sanction  the  measures  of  reform 
passed  by  tlie  House  of  Commons  and  de- 
manded by  the  people ;  and  that  revolution 
was  only  avoided  because  the  King,  having 


declared  that  he  would  create  new  peers,  a 
certain  number  of  the  lords,  to  escape  this 
danger,  absented  themselves  and  permitted 
the  passing  of  the  Parliamentary  llefbrm 
Bill.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  are  two  or  three 
other  matters  which  are  left  to  the  joint  juris- 
diction of  the  Federal  and  Local  Legislatures, 
such  as  agriculture,  emigration,  and  the 
fisheries ;  but  the  laws  of  the  Federal  Par- 
liament will  always  prevail  in  these  matters 
over  those  of  the  local  parliaments ;  thus,  for 
instance,  a  Local  Legislature  may  pass  a  law 
in  relation  to  agriculture,  but  it  may  be  over- 
ridden the  next  day  by  a  law  of  the  Federal 
Legislature.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  shall  not 
touch  upon  the  question  of  the  finances,  but  I 
must  say  that  the  figures  given  by  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  General  East  do  not  agree  with 
those  in  the  Public  Accounts.  I  do  not  know 
where  he  obtained  them,  but  for  my  part  I 
have  been  unable  to  find  them.  When  I 
enquired  whether  Lower  Canada  was  to 
pay  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund  debt,  lie 
did  not  think  proper  to  answer.  When  I 
asked  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance  whether 
Lower  Canada  would  be  charged  with  the 
debt  contracted  for  the  redemption  of  the 
Seigniorial  dues,  with  the  Common  School 
Fund,  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund,  and  the  in- 
demnity payable  to  the  townships,  amount- 
ing in  the  whole  to  $4,500,000,  he  re- 
plied that  he  would  bring  down  a  pro- 
position at  some  futuie  period  for  the 
settlement  of  these  questions,  but  he  has  not 
thought  proper  to  give  any  explanations. 
Well,  I  have  stated  that  besides  the  debt  of 
$67,000,000  due  by  the  province,  there  are 
more  than  $3,000,000  due  to  Upper  Canada 
as  compensation  for  the  Seigniorial  indemnity, 
and  that  in  fixing  at  $62,500,000  the  debt 
to  be  assumed  by  the  Federal  Government, 
there  will  remain  about  $9,000,000  to  divide 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.  With 
the  amount  of  the  Municipal  Loan  Fund 
debt  and  of  the  other  items  which  I  have 
mentioned,  Lower  Canada  will  find  herself 
charged  with  a  local  debt  of  $4,500,000. 
(Hear,  hear.)  When  we  entered  the  union 
we  had  a  debt  of  $500,000;  we  have  expend- 
ed since  the  union,  on  public  works  in  Lower 
Canada,  about  $13,000,000,  and  we  go  out  of 
the  union  with  a  debt  of  $27,500,000  as  our 
proportion  of  the  Federal  debt,  besides  our 
own  special  debt  of  $4,500,000,  whilst  Upper 
Canada  will  go  out  of  it  without  any  local 
debt  on  giving  up  the  indemnity  to  which 
she  is  entitled  under  the  Seigniorial  Act  of 
1859.     Well,  I  assert  that  it  is  an  unjust 


694, 


treaty,  and  that  it  is  also  unfair  that  the 
Ministry  should  refuse  us  all  explanations  on 
this  point,  before  we  are  called  upon  to  give 
our  votes  on  the  resolutions.  (Hear.)  The 
Hon.  Solicitor  General  East  told  us  the  other 
day  that  in  the  plan  of  Confederation  which 
I  h-^d  proposed  for  the  two  Canadas,  I  intend- 
ed to  leave  the  administration  and  ownership 
of  the  Crown  lands  to  the  General  Govern- 
ment, and  he  said  that  under  Confederation 
the  Crown  lands  would  belong  to  the  local 
governments,  and  this,  in  his  opinion,  was  a 
great  improvement  on  the  plan  which  I  pro- 
posed. Well,  it  must  be  observed  that  a  very 
large  amount  is  due  on  sales  of  Crown  lands ; 
there  is  about  $1,000,000  due  in  Lower  Can- 
ada, and  $5,000,000  or  §6,000,000  in  Upper 
Canada.  If  these  lands  had  remained  in  the 
union  there  would  have  been  about  one  million 
from  Lower  Canada,  and  five  or  six  millions 
from  Upper  Canada  towards  the  payment  of 
the  general  debt.  We  should  have  benefited  to 
that  amount  by  the  extinction  of  so  much  of 
the  public  debt ;  instead  of  that,  under  the 
plan  of  the  Government,  Upper  Canada  is  to 
have  the  benefit  of  the  five  or  six  millions 
due  on  the  lands  sold  in  Upper  Canada,  whilst 
Lower  Canada  will  only  have  one  million  of 
dollars  at  the  outside.  If  it  were  only  the 
public  lands,  there  would  be  no  injustice  in 
leaving  them  to  the  local  governments,  but 
the  difference  in  the  amounts  due  on  the  lands 
sold  gives  a  considerable  advantage  to  Upper 
Canada.  There  is  another  very  serious  ob- 
jection to  the  Constitution  of  the  Legislative 
Council.  The  honorable  member  for  Mont- 
morency said  that  the  Legislative  Council 
would  serve  as  a  protection  and  safeguard  to 
the  interests  of  the  French-Canadians,  be- 
cause in  it  we  would  have  an  equality  of 
members  with  the  other  provinces.  A  curi- 
ous equality  that  will  be !  That  of  which 
the  honorable  member  for  Montmorency  spoke 
when  he  pronounced  himself  in  favor  of  two 
elective  chambers,  because  in  that  case  we 
should  have  one  member  in  three,  was  in- 
finitely preferable.  In  the  Lower  IIousc  we 
shall  not  have  one  member  in  three,  nor  shall 
we  in  the  Upper  House  either,  for  we  shall 
only  have  twenty-four  councillors  out  of  sev- 
enty-six. Thus  we  shall  have  equality  neither 
in  the  Lower  House  nor  in  the  Council. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  then  the  General  Gov- 
ernment will  nominate  the  councillors,  and 
we  shall  be  in  a  great  minority  in  the  Ex- 
ecutive Council.  Another  objection  is  that 
the  nomination  of  the  legislative  councillors 
on  the  recommendation  of  the  Executive  Coun- 


cil of  the  General  Government,  and  this  offers 
no  guarantee  for  the  institutions  of    Lower 
Canada,    because    the    predominating    influ- 
ence   in  that  Council  will    not  be    that   of 
the   majority   of  Lower  Canada.      To   offer 
an    effectual   guarantee,    it   would   be  neces- 
sary that  they  should  be  elected  by  the  peo- 
ple, or,  at  all  events,  only  appointed  on  the 
recommendation  of  the    local    governments. 
These  resolutions,  we   are  told,  are  only  as  it 
were  the  headings  to  the  chapters  of  the  new 
Constitution,  and  the  new  Constitution  may 
be  anythiug  else  than  what  is  now  under  con- 
sideration.     It  will  come  back  to  us  in  the 
form  of  an  Imperial  Act,  to  which  we  shall 
have   nohntes  volentes   to   submit.       (Hear, 
hear.)       Supposing    even   that   the    scheme 
should  not  be  modified,  I  could  not  approve 
it.     I  cannot  with  a  joyful  heart  give  up  the 
imprescriptible  rights  of  the  people  who  have 
sent  me  here  to  represent  them.     I  cannot 
consent  to  a  change  which  is  neither  more  nor 
less  than  a  revolution,  a  political  revolution  it 
is  true,  but  which  does  not  the  less,  on  that 
account,  affect  the  rights  and  interests  of  a 
million  of  inhabitants,  the  descendants  of  the 
first  settlers  in  America,  of  those  who  have 
given  their  names  to  the  vast  regions  which 
tl;ey  discovered,  and  whose  careers  have  been 
rendered  famous  by  so  many  heroic  traits. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  am  opposed  to  this  Confed- 
eration in  which  the  militia,  the  appointment 
of  the  judges,  the  administration  of  justice 
and  our  most  important  civil  rights,  will  be 
under  the  control  of  a  General  Government 
the  majority  of  which  will  be  hostile  to  Lower 
Canada,  of  a  General  Government    invested 
with    the    most    ample    powers,  whilst    the 
powers  of  the    local    governments    will    be 
restricted,   first,    by    the    limitation   of    the 
powers  delegated  to  it,  by  the  veto  reserved 
to  the  central  authority,  and  further,  by  the 
concurrent  jurisdiction  of  the  general  author- 
ity or  government.  Petitions,  with  more  than 
20,000  signatures  attached  to  them,  have  al- 
ready been  presented  to  this  House  against 
the  scheme  of  Confederation.  Numerous  pub- 
lic  meetintrs   have     been    held   in    nineteen 
couutics  in   Lower  Canada,  and  one   in  the 
city  of  Montreal.     Everywhere  this  scheme 
has  been  protested  against,  and  an  appeal  to 
the  people  demanded ;  and  yet,  in  defiance  of 
the  expressed  opinions  of  our  constituents,  we 
are  about  to  give   them  a   Couslitutiou,  the 
effect  of  which  will  be  to  snatch  from   tliem 
the    little    influence    which    they   still    enjoy 
under  the  existing  union.     We  are  about,  on 
their  behalf,  to  surrender  all  the  rights  and 


695 


privileges  which  are  dearest  to  them,  and  that 
without  consulting  them.  It  would  be  mad- 
ness— it  would  be  more,  it  would  be  a  crime. 
On  these  grounds  I  shall  oppose  this  scheme 
with  all  the  power  at  my  command,  and  insist 
that  under  any  circumstances  it  shall  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people  before  its  final  adoption. 
^  Cheers.^ 

^'  Hon.  Mr.  GAUCHON--Mr.  Speaker, 
I  received  intelligence  this  evening  that  the 
Hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  was  about  to 
reply  to  my  speech  of  the  2ad  of  March,  and 
that  is  why  I  came  here.  Otherwise,  as  I  have 
not  yet  quite  recovered,  I  should  have  re- 
mained at  home ;  but  I  frankly  acknowledge 
that  if  I  had  foreseen  that  I  should  have 
had  to  listen  to  such  a  speech  as  that  which 
we  have  just  heard,  I  should  not  have  put 
myself  out  of  the  way  for  so  little.  Any  one 
hearing  him  speak  must  have  said  :  "  Either 
he  is  not  a  very  powerful  reasoner,  or  this 
hon.  member  has  but  a  poor  idea  of  the 
intelligence  of  this  House  and  but  little 
respect  for  his  colleagues."  But  for  my  two 
pamphlets  and  for  the  speech  of  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  Greneral,  which  he  read  and  com 
mented  upon  as  he  knows  how  to  do,  he 
would  very  speedily  have  found  himself 
aground  ;  but  by  deriving  assistance  in  the 
way  I  have  meutioued,  he  contrived  to  find 
the  means  of  speaking  for  three  hours. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Is  it  necessary  for  me  to 
repeat  that  I  have  never  denied  the  opinions 
which  I  held  in  former  days  ?  Nor  will  I 
deny  them  to-night.  I  acknowledge  freely 
that  my  opinions  on  certain  matters  have 
changed.  Of  what  advantage,  then,  can  it  be 
to  him  to  spend  his  time  in  repeating  what 
I  admit  myself  ?  If  I  proved  to  him  that 
he  had  changed  several  times  himself,  I  did 
not  do  so  to  lay  blame  upon  him,  but  to 
reproach  him  with  denying  his  past  career, 
in  order  that  he  might  be  more  at  his  ease 
in  that  which  he  is  at  present  following. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But,  for  that  matter,  what 
does  it  signify  to  the  country  that  he  or  1 
held  one  opinion  yesterday  and  that  we  hold 
another  to-day  ?  ^^'hat  the  country  requires 
to  know  is  whether  the  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation which  is  submitted  to  us  by  the  Grovern- 
ment  is  good  or  bad.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
man  who  "declares  that  he  has  never  changed 
his  opinion  on  any  subject  whatever  is,  to 
my  thinking,  a  simpleton.  The  public  re- 
quirements change  with  circumstances,  and 
necessarily  bring  with  them  other  ideas. 
(Hear,  hear.)     We  do  not  eat  when  we  are 


no  longer  hungry,  nor  drink  when  our  thirst 
is  satisfied.  Did  the  hon.  member,  for  in- 
stance, put  in  practice,  when  in  power,  the 
doctrine  which  he  enunciated  respecting  the 
double  majority,  when  he  was  seated  on  the 
Opposition  benches  ?  When  the  House  was 
engaged  in  debating  a  resolution,  the  object 
of  which  was  to  afiirm  the  principle  of  the 
double  majority,  the  present  Hon.  President 
of  the  Council  having  got  up  to  say  that  he 
would  never  have  governed  Upper  Canada 
by  means  of  a  Lower  Canada  majority,  the 
hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  rose  in  his  turn 
to  declare  that  he  also  would  never  consent 
to  govern  in  opposition  to  the  will  of  Lower 
Canada.  And  yet,  in  1858,  did  he  not  enter 
a  Cabinet  which  was  refused  by  nearly  all 
the  members  from  Lower  Canada  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORIOjN"— I  said  that  at  the 
time  of  the  formation  of  the  Brown-Dorion 
Ministry.  I  told  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  that  I  would 
not  undertake  to  carry  through  the  Legisla- 
ture the  four  great  measures  which  were 
then  in  question,  without  the  consent  of  the 
majority  of  the  representatives  from  Lower 
Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Ah,  yes  !  An 
excellent  reason  can  always  be  found  for 
retaining  power  when  we  have  it,  in  spite 
of  our  own  declarations.  In  1862,  did  he 
not  form  part  of  a  Government  situated  in 
the  same  position  ?  And  from  186B  to  1864 
did  he  not  govern  Lower  Canada  with  a  rod 
of  iron,  supported  only  by  a  weak  Lower 
Canadian  minority  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  only  measure 
passed  in  1863,  that  relatiog  to  Separate 
Schools  in  Upper  Canada,  was  carried  by  a 
majority  in  both  provinces. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— That  is  not  so, 
as  the  Upper  Canadian  majority  voted 
against  that  bill,  which  owed  its  safety  to 
Lower  Canadians  only.  But  it  is  the  prin- 
ciple which  is  in  question  here,  and  the  hon. 
member  cannot  divert  the  attention  of  the 
House  from  that  fact.  If  the  double  ma- 
jority was  good  in  one  case,  it  must  be  so  in 
all  cases,  in  legislation  as  in  administration, 
but  more  especially  in  administration,  which 
cannot  and  ought  not  to  be  based  on  any- 
thing except  public  opinion.  Now,  the  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  certainly  governed 
his  country  despite  the  majority  of  its 
representatives.  (Hear,  hear.)  He  has 
spoken  to  us  of  the  petitions  presented  to 
this  House  against  the  scheme  of  Confeder- 


696 


ation,  but  what  do  those  petitions  amount 
to  ?  The  way  in  which  they  were  covered 
with  signatures  is  well  known.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  shall  here  cite  an  anecdote  relating  to 
the  parliamentary  history  of  Upper  Canada, 
at  a  period  shortly  before  the  Union.  A 
member  was  talking  a  great  deal  about  peti- 
tions in  a  debate  upon  a  bill.  "Petitions!" 
said  his  opponent,  "  I  will  undertake  within 
a  fortnight  to  present  a  petition  to  this  House 
praying  that  you  may  be  hanged,  and  which 
shall  be  covered  with  good  and  valid  signa- 
tures !"  The  challenge  was  accepteJ,  and 
at  the  end  of  three  weeks  the  petition  arri- 
ved, praying  for  the  hanging  of  the  man  who 
had  so  much  faith  in  the  virtue  of  petitions ! 
How  had  it  been  obtained  ?  By  posting  at 
a  ta?^ern  situated  at  four  cross-roads  a  skilful 
and  knowing  agent,  who  incessantly  said  to 
the  frequenters  of  the  tavern — ''  Do  you  like 
good  roads  V  ''  Yes."  ''  Well,  then,  sign 
this  petition."  All  signed,  without  reading 
it.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  Exactly 
in  this  manner  were  obtained  most  of  the 
signatures  against  Confederation.  At  Mont- 
real, agents  went  from  tavern  to  tavern  and 
induced  all  who  were  there  to  si^rn,  or  sisrned 
for  those  who  resided  in  the  vicinity  without 
even  consulting  them.  (Hear,  bear.)  Have 
we  not  also  seen  petitions  coming  from  coun- 
ties in  which  the  Opposition  were  not  oven 
able  to  find  candidates  ?  They  laay  easily 
obtain  signatures  of  this  description,  and  by 
this  means ;  but  that  does  not  constiiute  an 
expression  of  the  opinion  of  Lower  Canada, 
and  those  petitions  will  not  carry  elections. 
The  hun.  member  ought  to  know  somcthin": 
about  it,  he  who  was  in  power  at  the  time  of 
the  last  general  election.  (Hear,  hear.) 
He  endeavored  to  explain  away  his  contra- 
dictions by  saying  that  he  had  never  been 
in  favor  of  the  Confederation  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces. T  did  not  state  that  he  was  in  favor 
of  this  Confederation  of  all  the  provinces;  I 
only  said  that  he  was  willing,  as  a  member 
of  the  liiioWN-DoRiON  Government,  in 
1858,  to  have  representation  based  on  popu- 
lation, with  checks,  guarantees  and  assur- 
ancRs;  that  then,  in  1^59,  he  proposed  as  an 
alternative  to  that  measure,  in  his  Montreal 
manifesto.  Confederation  of  the  two  Canadas; 
aud  then,  in  18UU-'01  ho  was  ready  to 
accept  any  possible  change,  even  Confedera- 
tion of  all  British  North  America.  (Hear, 
hear.)  'J'o  prove  that  he  was  in  favor  of 
Couftderation  of  all  the  provinces^  I  quoted 
one  of  his  speeches,  in  which  he  said,  on  the 
Gth  July,  1858  :— 


The  repeal  of  the  union,  a  Federal  union, 
representation  based  on  population,  or  some  other 
great  change,  must  of  necessity  take  place,  and 
for  my  part  I  am  disposed  to  examine  the  question 
of  representation  based  on  population,  with  the 
view  of  ascertaining  whether  it  might  not  be  con- 
ceded with  guarantees  for  the  protection  of  the 
religion,  the  language  and  the  laws  of  the  Lower 
Canadians.  I  am  likewise  prepared  to  take  into 
consideration  the  scheme  for  a  Confederation  of 
the  provinces,  &c.,  &c. 

Then  another,  of  the  3rd  May,  1860,  of 
which  I  gave  two  versions — the  first  from 
the  Mirror  of  Parliament,  and  the  second 
from  the  Morning  Chronicle,  to  which  I  was 
referred  as  being  moro  authentic  and  more 
orthodox  by  the  organ  of  the  hon.  member 
for  Hoehelaga: — 

I  hope,  however,  that  the  day  will  come  in 
which  it  ^vill  be  desirable  for  Canada  to  federate 
with  the  Lower  Provinces,  &c.  *  '  * 
Those  in  favor  of  a  Federal  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces must  see  that  this  proposed  Federation  of 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  is  the  best  means  to 
form  a  nucleus  around  which  the  great  Confedera- 
tion of  all  the  provinces  could  be  formed  in  the 
course  of  time. — Mirror  of  Parliament. 

I  look  upon  the  Federal  union  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  as  the  nucleus  of  the  great  Con- 
federation of  the  Provinces  of  North  America  to 
which  all  look  forward.  I  believe  that  time  will 
bnng  about  the  union  of  all  the  province.^. — ■ 
Morning  Chronicle. 

Could  anything  be  more  explicit  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  word  •  he  • 
is  not  in  the  report. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— No;  and  I  cor- 
rected that  error  the  other  night ;  but  I 
maintained  with  reason  that  the  words  "  to 
which  all  look  for«  ard "  meant  that  all 
persons  directed  their  attention  towards 
Confederation.  Now,  if  all  persons  expect 
Confederation,  if  all  persons  direct  their 
attention  towards  it  as  towards  the  promised 
laud,  the  hon.  member  for  Hoehelaga  must 
be  included  to  a  small  extent  in  this  term 
"  all  persons."  (Hear,  hear.)  Did  he  not, 
moreover,  declare  that  the  Confederation  of 
the  two  (Janadas,  which  he  proposed,  was  to 
be  but  the  nucleus  of  the  great  Confeder- 
ation, the  necessary  nucleus  for  the  Con- 
federation of  all  the  American  Provinces, 
which  we  are  considering  at  present  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DOllION— I  did  not  say  the 
necessary  nucleus. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON-The  hon.  mem- 
ber always  seeks  loop-holes  by  which  to 
escape  from  his  speeches  and  to  evade  the 
consequences  of  his  pa»t  opinions;  but  as  I 


697 


did  not  iaterrupt  him,  I  hope  that  he  will 
not  iaterrupt  me  either.  Did  he  not  say 
the  other  day  : — 

Of  course  I  do  not  suy  that  I  shall  be  opposed 
to  their  Confederation  for  all  time  to  come.  Po- 
pulation may  extend  over  the  wilderness  that 
now  lies  between  the  Maritime  Provinces  and 
ourselves,  and  commercial  intercourse  may  in- 
crease sufficiently  to  render  Confederation  de- 
sirable. 

Is  not  this  admitting  everything  ?     Is  it  not 
saying  that  there  is  nothing  between  us  but 
a  question  of  time  and  of  expediency  ?   Why 
then  should  he  make  the  opinions  of  us,  the  ma- 
jority, such  a  crime,  when  he  himself  arrives, 
at  the  end  of  a  four  hours'  speech,  at  the  con- 
clusion that  Confederation  will  be  good  or 
necessary  at  a  time  which  is  more  or  less  near  ? 
In  his  manifesto  against  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation he  adheres  so  far  to  his  previous 
opinions  as  to  consider  the  scheme  which  is 
submitted  to  us  as  merely  premature.   There 
again,  then,  it  was  only  a  question  of  time, 
and  in  declaring  himself  to-day  opposed  to 
Confederation,    he    therefore    changes    his 
opinion  as  to  the  very  basis  of  the  question. 
I  do  not  cast  it  up  to  him  as  a  reproach  ;  for, 
as  I  said  but  a  minute  ago,  he   who  main- 
tains that  he  has  never  changed,  conveys  but 
a  poor  opinion  of  his  judgment  and  of  his 
aptitude   for    public    affairs.       Events,   in 
changing,  absolutely  compel  men  to  change 
also.     (Hear.)     A  general  was  once  boasting 
to   the   great   Surenne  that   he  had  never 
committed  an  error  of  strategy.     "  lie  who 
boasts  that   he   has   never  been  mistaken," 
returned  Surenne,  ''proves  thereby  that  he 
knows   nothing  of  the  art  of  war."     These 
words,  which   are   full   of  wisdom,  may  be 
applied  to  the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga, 
who,  by  his  persistence  in  maintaining  that 
he  has  never  contradicted  himself  nor  been 
mistaken,  proves  that  he  is    no   statesman. 
(Hear,  hear. J     But,  I  say  it  again,  it  would 
have  been  better  for  him  to  lay  aside  per- 
sonal questions.    (Hear,  hear.)    On  the  6th 
July,  1858,  he  said: — 

Before  long  it  will  become  impossible  to  resist 
the  demand  of  Upper  Canada.  If  representation 
based  on  population  is  not  granted  to  her  now, 
she  will  infallibly  obtain  it  hereafter,  but  then 
without  any  guarantee  for  the  protection  of  the 
French-Canadians. 

But  to-day  he  changes  his  opinion.  Then 
he  was  willing  to  grant  representation  by 
population,  or  Confederation  based  on  the 
same  principle.  It  h^d  to  be  conceded  in 
■     89 


order  that  we  might  not  be  carried  away  by 
the  tempest.     But  to-day,   according  to  his 
shewing,  the  storm  no   longer  impeud.s  ;  the 
whole  sky  is  calm  and  serene  ;  public  opinion 
in    Upper    Canada    no  longer    threatens  to 
break  asunder  the  frail  bands  of  the  union, 
and  changes  are  useless.     Ah  !    and  yet  we 
have  had  as  many  as  three  ministerial  crises 
in  one  year.     (Hear,  hear.)     He  mistakes 
then  ;    the  difficulties  have   but  increased, 
and  it  is  better  to-day  to  provide  against  the 
storm,  than   to  be  carried  away  by  it  at  a 
later  period.     The  greatest  'wisdom  directs 
its  eff"orts,  not   to  cure  the  disease,  but  to 
prevent  it ;  this   truth  is  as  applicable    to 
politics  as  it  is  to   medicine.     (Hear,  hear.) 
The  hon.  member  for   Hochelaga   talked  to 
us  of  conflicts  between  the  Fedeial  Parlia- 
ment  and   the   local   Houses,   and   of  the 
sovereign  power  of  the  Central  Government 
over  the  legislatures  of  the  provinces.     But 
what,  then,  is  this  sovereign  power  over  the 
attributes  of  the  provincial  legislatures  ?     If 
it  exists  it  must  be  in  the    Constitution.     If 
it  is  not  to  be  found  there,  it  is  because  it 
does  not  exist.     He  says  that  the   Federal 
Legislature   will  always   predominate  ;  and 
why  ?     Who  then  will  decide  between  the 
one  and  the  others  ? — the  judicial  tribunals 
being   sworn   to  respect  the   laws   and    the 
Constitution  in  their  entirety,   and  charged 
by   the  very  nature  of  their  functions  to 
declare  whether  such  a  law  of  the  Federal 
Parliament  or  of  the  local   legislatures  does 
or  does  not  aiiect  the  Constitution.     (Hear, 
h..ar.)     There  will  be  no  absolute  sovereign 
power,  each  legislature  having  its  distinct 
and  independent  attributes,  not  proceeding 
from  one  or  the  other  by  delegation,  either 
from  above  or  from  below.   The  Federal  Par- 
liament will  have  legislative  sovereign  power 
in  all  questions  submitted  to  its  control  in 
the  Constitution.     So  also  the  local  legis- 
latures will  be  sovereign  in  all  matters  which 
are  specifically  assigned  to  them.     How  is 
the  question  of  a  conflict  now  settled  in  the 
United   States,  when  it  arises  between  the 
legislation  of  Congress  and  that  of  individual 
states  ?     I  do  not  speak  of  the  present  time 
when  nearly  the  whole  of  the  territory  of 
that  great  country  is  under  military   rule, 
and  overrun  in  every  direction  by  an  army  of 
500,000  soldiers.     I  allude  to  what  occurs  in 
their  normal  condition.  (Hear.)  The  sovereign 
power  is  vested  in  the  Federal  Government 
with  respect  to  all  Federal  matters,  and  in 
the  states   with  respect  to  all  matters  con- 
nected  with   their   special   attributes.     By 


698 


reading  Storey,  or  rather  the  Constitution, 
the  hon.  member  will  ascertain  that  the 
states  are  not  paramount  with  respect  to 
questions  of  war  and  peace,  the  tariff,  trade, 
treaties  and  all  relations  with  foreign  coun- 
tries. Their  authority  is  void  so  far  as 
relates  to  those  questions,  and  the  sovereign 
power  is  vested  exclusively  in  the  Federal 
Government.  If  any  conflict  arises  between 
the  Federal  Legislature  and  that  of  the 
states,  it  is  decided  by  the  judicial  tribunals. 
I  am  not  aware  that  any  difficulty  of  this 
nature  has  evef  arisen,  and  so  far  as  relates 
to  the  legislative  attributes  of  the  states, 
that  Federal  legislation  has  ever  predomina- 
ted over  local  legislation.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Why  then  should  the  ca-e  be  otherwise  so 
far  as  we  are  concerned  ?  Is  it  because  we 
are  differently  constituted,  and  because  our 
nature  is  subservient  to  other  laws  ?  These 
arc  wretched  arguments,  and  he  has  even 
been  reduced  to  splitting  hairs  since  he  has 
attended  the  school  of  the  member  for 
Brome,  whose  place  he  almost  fills  since  he 
has  been  ill.  (Laughter.)  The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  considered  my  first 
pamphlet  much  better  written  than  my  last, 
doubtless  for  the  same  reason  that  he  con- 
sidered my  speeches  of  1858  greatly  superior 
to  that  which  I  delivered  here  the  other  day. 
He  thinks  now  as  I  thought  in  1858  ;  he 
has  therefore  receded  by  six  years.  Allud- 
ing to  my  speech  of  the  2ud  March,  he 
appears  to  impute  it  to  me  as  a  crime,  that  I 
yielded  to  the  influence  of  my  relations  with 
the  delegates  from  the  Maritime  Provinces, 
and  that  under  the  action  of  that  influence, 
I  changed  my  opinions  respecting  Confeder- 
ation. I  admit  the  fact  of  that  influence 
legitimately  exercised.  We  lose  nothing  by 
coming  in  contact  with  intelligent  men. 
The  meuibers  ot  this  House,  who  last  autumn 
visited  those  provinces,  returned  amazed  at 
what  they  had  seen.  They  were  convinced 
that  those  provinces  were  possessed  of  great 
resources.  Contact  with  the  most  eminent 
men  of  those  countries  could  be  productive 
of  no  evil,  and  the  hon.  member  would  have 
gained  by  it.  Perhaps  if  he  had  experi- 
enced that  contact,  he  would  not  to-day  have 
recourse  to  the  means  which  he  is  employing 
to  cast  discredit  on  the  scheme  of  (/Onfeder- 
ation,  and  to  cause  it  to  be  rejected.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Among  thoi-e  men  there  are  some  who 
are  endowed  with  magnificent  abilities,  and  at 
whoso  bide  I  should  be  happy  and  proud  to 
sit  in  a  deliberative  assembly.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Yes,  we  were  gainers  by  coming  in  oontact 


with  them,  and  I  venture  to  believe  that,  on 
their   parts,   they   were   divested   of  many 
prejudices   which   they  may  possibly  have 
entertained  against  us,  just  as  we  had  some 
such  against  them.  The  hon.  member  quoted 
certain  articles  from  the  Journal  de  Quebec 
of  1856  and  1858  to  prove  that  I  said  that 
then    the    Government    was  the    worst    I 
had  ever  seen.     Perhaj s  I  was  right  at  the 
time,  but  I   could   not  say   the  same  thing 
since  it  has  been  my  lot  to  look  upon  the 
hon.    member's  Government !     (Hear,   and 
laughter.)     If  there  was  ever  a  tyrannical 
and  dishonest  Government,  it  was  certainly 
that  cf  1863,  and  accordingly  it  succumbed 
before  the  attacks  ot  all  honest  men.     Ex- 
cept for  some  accident,  such  as  that  which 
occurred    in   1862,    who  ventures   to   hope 
to  see  the  hon.   member  return   to  power  ? 
(Hear,  hear.)     He  told  us   that  it  was  not 
expedient  to  change  the  Constitution  without 
first   having  recourse    to  an  appeal   to   the 
people.     But  the  first  question  to  be  decided 
is  the  constitutional  question,  and  the  ques- 
tion of  expediency  and   convenience   comes 
after.     He  talks  to   us   without  ceasing  of 
consulting  the  electors.      His  doing  so  may 
be  easily  understood  ;  on  the  elections  rest 
his  only  hopes.     Always  deceived  in  every 
election,  he  hopes,  but  hopes  in  vain,  that 
the  next  will    give    him  the    victory.     He 
oughttoknow,  however,  that  our  Constitution 
is  constructed  upon  the  model  of  the  British 
Constitution,  and  that  members  do   not  and 
cannot  receive  an  imperative  order  from  their 
electors.       Each    representative,    although 
elected  by  one  particular  county,  represents 
the  whole   country,  and   his    legislative   re- 
sponsibility extends  to  the  whole  of  it.     If, 
therefore,  I  am  convinced  that  any  legislative 
measure  presented  by  the  Government  or  by 
a  member  of  this   House,  is  of  a  nature  to 
save  Lower  Canada,  I  must  vote  for  that 
measure,  even   though   my  constituents  are 
opposed   to  it.     My   electors  might  punish 
me  afterwards,  but   they  could   not  impose 
upon  me  duties  which  I  consider  to  bo  en- 
tirely beyond  their  jurisdiction,  and  to  relate 
to    the    very    Constitution   of   the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)     If  there  are  any  members 
who  consider  that  the  scheme  of  Confeder- 
ation is  a  bad  one  and   opposed  to  the  inte- 
rests of  Lower  Canada,  even  if  the  majority 
of  our  people  think  otherwise,  it  is  their  duty 
to  oppose  it  on  precisely  the  Bunu  principle. 
They  may  also,  if  thoy  choo.'e,  doniand  an 
appeal  to  the  people.      But  would  they  be 
justified  in  60  doing,  and  ought  this  House 


699 


to  demand  it  simply  iu  order  to  compensate  for 
that  absence  of  opposition  which  gives  inces- 
sant trouble  to  the  hon.  member  for  Hoche- 
laga?  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  spoke  of  public  meetings 
held  in  certain  counties  in  the  district 
of  Montreal ;  but  those  meetings  are  far 
from  possessing  ttie  importance  which  he 
assigns  to  them.  We  all  know  how  they 
can  be  got  up  everywhere,  and  what  they 
amoun<i  to.  However  the  case  may  be  there, 
there  have  been  none  such  in  the  district  of 
Quebec,  and  even  in  the  district  of  Three 
Kivers,  against  Confederation,  and  it  cannot 
be  said  that  the  members  who  represent 
those  districts,  and  who  vote  for  this  mea- 
sure, are  acting  in  opposition  to  the  wishes 
of  their  constituents.  Such  meetings  are 
only  found  to  occur  in  the  district  of  Mon- 
treal, where  the  party  of  the  honorable  mem- 
ber is  most  strongly  represented;  but  an 
opinion  may  be  formed  as  to  those  meetings 
from  what  is  goiag  on  at  Quebec  at  this 
moment.  While  the  whole  body  of  citizens 
are  calling  for  the  suspension  of  the  present 
muoicipal  council,  some  individuals  inter- 
ested in  keeping  it  in  authority  are  calling 
public  meetings  in  the  nooks  and  corners  of 
the  suburbs.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable 
member  made  tremendous  efforts  to  prove 
that  the  interests  of  our  religion,  our  na- 
tionality and  our  institutions  would  be  in  a 
position  of  much  greater  safety  in  his  hands 
than  they  would  be  in  those  of  the  majority. 
For  my  part,  I  am  willing  to  leave  to  public 
opinion  the  care  of  deciding  that  question  ; 
and  as  he  declares  himself  to  hold  that 
opinion  in  great  respect,  I  must  suppose 
that  he  will  agree  with  me  on  this  point. 
(Hear,  hear.)  1  would  not  assert  that  the 
honorable  member  is  himself  personally  hos- 
tile to  the  religion  and  the  institutions  of 
Lower  Canada;  but  I  may  say  that  all  the 
tendencies  of  the  party  which  he  represents 
are  adverse  to  those  same  institutions. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  is  sufficient  proof  of 
this  in  the  writings  and  the  acts  of  that 
party.  As  to  my  opinion  respecting  Confed- 
eration, I  may  repeat  here  what  I  have 
already  said  on  a  former  occasion,  and  that 
is,  that  no  one  knew  what  that  opinion  was, 
how  I  should  write,  and  on  what  side  I 
should  write,  when  I  began  my  work.  I 
kept  silence  that  I  might  not  be  annoyed 
either  by  friends  or  by  opponents,  and  in 
order  that  I  might  be  able  to  judge  of  the 
question    in    the    fulness    of   my    liberty. 


(Hear.)  Mention  has  been  made  of  the 
dangers  of  Confederation.  I  know  that 
every  question  has  its  dangers,  and  it  is 
probable  that  this  one  presents  some  such  in 
the  same  way  as  all  others  do;  but  the 
greatest  danger  that  we  could  incur  would 
be  the  bringing  on  of  a  conflict  between  the 
Catholics  and  Protestants,  by  appeals  like 
those  which  certain  members  on  the  left 
have  made  to  the  religious  passions  of  our 
population.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  what  posi- 
tion should  we  find  ourselves,  we  Catholics, 
if  we  provoked  such  a  conflict  ?  Thj 
258,000  Catholics  of  Upper  Canada  are  re- 
presented in  this  House  by  but  two  mem- 
bers, those  for  Cornwall  and  Grlengarry 
(Hon.J.  S.  and  Mr.  D.  A.  Macdonald), 
whilst  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada  are 
represented  by  fifteen  or  sixteen  members ; 
and  in  case  of  a  conflict  between  the  Catho- 
lics and  the  Protestants,  what  would  become 
of  us  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  From  the  justice, 
the  wisdom  and  the  liberality  of  our  acts 
alone  have  we  hitherto  found  our  strength 
and  our  protection  to  proceed,  and  from 
them  shall  we  again  find  them  to  proceed 
under  Confederation.  (Hear.)  The  hon- 
orable member  for  Hochelaga  quoted  a 
garbled  portion  of  my  first  pamphlet,  to  give 
it  a  meaning  which  it  does  not  convey  ;  he 
then  accuses  me  of  having  changed  my 
opinion  as  to  the  Constitution  of  the  Legis- 
lative Council.  But  I  can  tell  him  that  I 
have  never  changed  my  opinion  on  that 
question  ;  I  have  never  been  in  favor  of  the 
elective  principle  being  applied  to  the  Le- 
gislative Council;  and  if  in  1858  I  prepared 
and  introduced  the  law  which  changed  the 
constitution  of  that  body,  it  was  only  that  I 
might  gratify  the  universal  opinion  which 
desired  an  elective  Legislative  Council. 
But,  the  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga 
will  reply,  did  you  not  write  in  1858  : — 

The  best  possible  condition  under  which  Con- 
federation could  exist  would  be  that  in  which  the 
two  chambers  would  be  elective,  and  would  both 
have  population  as  the  basis  of  their  number  j  for 
no  other  system,  excepting  that  of  having  but  one 
chamber  only,  with  the  number  of  its  members 
based  on  population,  would  give  us  absolutely 
one  vote  in  three  in  the  Federal  Legislature, 

Was  the  question  then  whether  the  elective 
principle  was  preferable  to  that  of  appoint- 
ment ?  No  ;  we  were  discussing  a  question 
of  much  greater  importance,  that  of  ascer- 
taining in  what  condition  of  constitutional 
existence  we  should  find  the  greatest  protec- 


700 


tion,  and  having  to  select  from  two  alterna- 
tives, numbers  or  the  State,  I  preferred 
numbers,  because  it  would  have  conferred 
upon  us  a  larger  share  of  representation  and 
of  influence.  The  words  which  follow,  and 
which  I  will  give,  clearly  prove  my  thought 
at  that  time  ; — 

The  ConsLituliou  of  the  United  States,  oa 
which,  perhaps,  ours  would  be  modeled,  would 
not  give  to  us  Lower  Canadians  the  same  pro- 
tection and  the  same  guarantee  of  safety,  as 
by  it  we  should  in  reality  enjoy  a  little  pro- 
tection only  in  the  House  of  Representatives,  in 
which  we  should  be  one  to  three. 

Thus  the  protection  would  have  been  vested 
in  the  Legi.-.lative  Council  itself,  if  it  had 
been  created  on  the  principle  of  the  State 
and  not  of  numbers.  To  shew  that  my  mind 
was  then  filled  with  but  one  idea — that  of 
obtaining  the  greatest  share  of  influence  in 
the  Federal  Legislature  for  Lower  Canada, 
by  any  constitutional  system  whatever,  I 
also  wrote  iu  the  same  pamphlet : — 

Under  the  Federal  principle,  small  and  great 
provinces  will  carry  equal  weight  in  the  single 
(general)  legislature;  the  little  island  of  Prince 
Edvpard  as  much  as  the  twelve  hundred  and  fifty 
thousand  souls  of  Lower  Canada. 

Having  no  information  to  go  upon,  I  then 
thought  that  the  American  system  would  be 
adopted,  which  gives  in  the  Federal  Senate 
to  tlie  little  states  of  Rhode  Island,  Jersey, 
Maine,  Vermont  and  Connecticuc  the  same 
representation  as  it  gives  to  the  large  states 
of  New  York,  Pennsylvania  and  Ohio.     But 
the  scliemc   that  we  have  before  us   proves 
that  I  was  mistaken,  as  Prince  Edward's 
Island,  instead  of  having  as  many  represen- 
tatives in  the  Legislative  Council  as  we  shall 
have,  will  only  have  one-sixth  of  the  number. 
For   the  purpose   of  representation   in   the 
Legislative  Council,  the  three  Atlantic  Pro- 
vinces are  grouped  together,  and  are  to  be 
represented   together    by    but    twenty-four 
votes,  just    the   same   as    Lower    Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)     As  the  question  was  as  to 
the  establishment  of  equilibrium  between 
the  provinces,  if  the  scheme  of  the  Quebec 
Conference  gives  me  the  same  result  as  an 
elective  Legislative  Council,  what  contradic- 
tion is  there  in  my  returning  to  the  nomina- 
tive  principle,  which   I  always  preferred  to 
the   elective   principle  ?     The  conditions  of 
equilibrium   being  the  same,  I  give  the  pre- 
ference to   the   principle  which   confers  on 
legislation  the  best  guarantee  of  wisdom  and 


mature  judgment.     (Hear,  hear.)     But  sup- 
posing— what  is  not  the  case — that  I  had 
contradicted  myself,  in  what  way  could  my 
contradictions  have  aflFected  the  merits  of  the 
question  under  discussion  ?     If  it  can  be 
proved  that  my  opinions  of  to-day  are  not 
based  on  reasonable  grounds,  let  it  be  proved. 
If  it  cannot  be  proved,  do  not  let  anyone 
imagine  that  he  has  answered  me  by  saying: 
"  You  thought  differently  six  years  ago." 
Because  I  reasoned  in  1858  on  hypotheses 
which  are  controverted  by  facts  today,  must 
I  then,  in  order  to  appear  consistent,  adhere 
to    those    suppositions    which    substantive 
truths   so   completely    contradict  ?     (Hear, 
hear.)     The  hon.    member   for    Hochelaga 
told  us  that  the  Constitution  of  the  Belgian 
Senate  is  less  conservative  than  that  of  the 
Legislative  Council   which»  we   propose    to 
establish  under  the  Confederation,  because 
the  members  of  the  Belgian  Senate  are  in 
part  changed  every  four  years.     To  this  I 
reply,  that  the  conservative  principle  may  be 
found  elsewhere  than  in  the  manner  of  select- 
ing the  councillors  or  the  senators,  and  that 
in  Belgium  it  is  found  in  the  excessively 
high  standard  of  qualification  which   is  re- 
quired of  candidates  for  the  Senate^;  so  much 
so  that  only  men  of  large  fortune,  who  are 
everywhere  few  in   number,  can  aspire  to 
enter  it.     In   Belgium  the  Constitution  re- 
quires that  there  shall  be  one  man  qualified 
in  every  six  thousand  souls  of  population, 
and  that  man  must  pay  one  thousand  florins 
of  direct  taxes.     Will   it  be  said  that  the 
Belgian  Senate,  so  constituted,  is  not  more 
conservative   than    our  Legislative   Council 
will  be — the  Belgian  Senate,  in  which  none 
can  sit  but  very  rich  men  and  large  landed 
proprietors  ?    (Hear,  hear.)    I  am  answered 
that  one-half  this  Senate  is  renewed  every 
four  years,  and  that  the  Crown  may  dissolve 
it  at  pleasure.     But  can  the  Crown  prevent 
men  of  large  fortune  and  large  landed  pro- 
prietors from  entering  it  ?    It  is  proved  that 
it  is  with  difficulty  that  there  can  be  found 
in   the  House  of  Lords  any  scions   of  the 
great  families  who  flourished  there  under 
Charles  II.;  but  that  House  is  constantly 
recruited  from  among  the  territorial  nobility 
and  from  among  men  who  render  great  poli- 
tical or  military  services  to  the  state.     By 
renewing  it  thus  with  the  same  olcmeuts,  does 
the  Crown  take  away  its  conservative  charac- 
ter ?       (Hear,  hear.)       The    hon.    member 
stands  iu  perpetual  dread  of  conflicts  and 
disagreements.     Sapposing  that  the  House 
of  Lords  had  persisted  iu  its  opposition  to 


701 


the  Reform  Bill  ia  1832,  what  would  have 
happened  if  William  IV.  had  refused  to 
overwhelm  it  by  numerous  nominations  to 
the  peerage  ?  Does  any  one  believe  that  it 
would  have  persisted  to  the  last  ?  No ; 
after  havius-  lonir  resisted,  it  would  have 
bent  before  the  storm  which  threatened  to 
sweep  it  away.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  1832  the 
struggle  was  between  the  great  proprietors 
and  the  middle  classes,  who  wished  to  make 
their  way;  for  the  English  people,  properly 
termed  the  populace,  have  no  political  privi- 
leges; they. are  of  no  account  in  the  Consti- 
tution, they  hold  no  political  position,  and 
have  no  energy  for  the  struggle,  which, 
moreover,  would  not  be  productive  of  any 
benefit  to  them.  It  resembles  in  no  respect 
the  populations  of  the  great  towns  in  France, 
which  make  «nd  unmake  governments  by 
insurrections  or  revolutions.     In  Ens-land  it 

O 

is  the  middle  classes  who  make  revolutions 
or  who  threaten  to  make  them.  Growing 
richer  daily,  they  advance  slowly  but  surely 
towards  the  securing  of  political  privileges 
and  immunities.  The  Radical  school  of 
Manchester  at  bottom  wishes  for  nothing 
more,  although  it  asserts  that  it  is  de- 
sirous of  obtaining  privileges  for  the  peo- 
ple. If  the  great  nobility,  in  1832, 
offered  such  determined  opposition  to  the 
Reform  Bill,  it  was  because  they  leared  that 
it  would  annihilate  theif  influence  and  place 
them  at  the  mercy  of  the  will  qf  the  masses. 
But  we  have  no  caste  here,  and  fortune,  like 
political  honors,  is  the  property  of  every  man 
who  labors  to  attain  it.  Here  every  one,  if 
he  chooses,  can  almost  without  an  effort  be- 
come a  proprietor  and  possess  the  right  of 
having  a  deliberative  voice  in  the  discussion 
of  national  questions  of  the  highest  import- 
ance. To  be  a  legislative  councillor  it  will 
be  sufficient  to  possess  real  estate  of  the  value 
of  four  thousand  dollars.  The  legislative 
councillors  will  form  part  of  the  people,  will 
live  with  the  people  and  by  their  opinions, 
and  will  know  and  appreciate  their  wants; 
the  only  difference  that  there  will  be  between 
them  and  the  members  of  the  House  of 
Commons  will  be,  that  being  appointed  for 
life,  they  will  not  be  as  directly  brought 
under  external  influence ;  that  they  will 
have  more  freedom  of  action  and  of  thought, 
and  that  they  will  be  able  to  judge  with 
greater  calmness  of  the  legislation  which 
will  be  submitted  to  them.  For  what  reason 
then  would  they  provoke  contests  which 
would  neither  be  conducive  to  their  interests 
nor  in  accordaacs  with  their  feelings ;  they 


will  not,  like  the  House  of  Lords,  have  pri- 
vileges to  save  from  destruction.  In  the 
Constitution  they  will  have  but  one  part  to 
play,  that  of  maturing  legislation  in  the 
interests  of  the  people.  The  hon.  member 
for  Hochelaga  said  in  his  last  manifesto,  and 
repeated  here,  that  if  we  applied  to  England 
to  amend  our  Constitution,  we  should  expose 
ourselves  to  having  alterations,  for  which  we 
do  not  ask,  made  by  some  mischievous  hand. 
The  thing  is  possible  I  admit.  It  is  possi- 
ble, as  it  is  also  possible  for  the  Imperial 
Parliament  to  change  our  Constitution  with- 
out even  waiting  for  us  to  take  the  initiative, 
as  it  did  in  1840,  but  if  there  is  any  harm 
now  in  asking  Great  Britain  for  the  Confed- 
eration of  all  the  provinces,  because  she 
may  subject  us  to  something  which  is  not 
contained  in  the  scheme,  why  did  the  mem- 
ber for  HochelaG:a  Avish  for  constitutional 
changes  in  1558  ?  Did  he  hope  to  change 
the  Constitutional  Act  of  1840  without  the 
concurrence  of  the  Imperial  Parliament  ? 
And  will  he  be  good  enough  to  tell  us  by  what 
supernatural  proceeding  he  hoped  to  succeed 
in  doing  so  ?  If  there  is  danger  in  1865, 
there  must  also  have  been  danger  in  1858. 
Why  then  should  he,  to  day,  impute  to  others 
as  a  crime  that  which  he  wished  to  do  him- 
self then  ?  Has  he  forgotten  all  that  ? 
Does  he  wish  to  deny  it  ?  Differing  slightly 
from  the  Bourbons,  he  has  learned  nothing 
and  has  forgotten  everything.  (Hear,  and 
laughter.)  To  frighten  us,  he  also  spoke  of 
direct  taxation,  to  which  we  should  have  to 
submit,  if  we  had  Confederation.  Now,  in 
his  constitutional  scheme  of  1858,  with 
which  we  are  all  acquainted,  he  gave  to  the 
Federal  Government  the  customs  revenue. 
We  should,  therefore,  have  had  to  have  re- 
course to  direct  taxation  to  meet  the  expen- 
diture of  the  local  governments.  The  plan  of 
Constitution  which  is  submitted  to  us  treats 
us  better  than  that,  for  it  gives  us  enough, 
and  more  than  we  require,  to  ensure  the 
easy  working  of  the  local  organizations. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON-Hear  !  hear! 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  — Yes, 
hear  !  hear!  just  so! 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUGHON— The  hon.  mem- 
ber for  Chateauguay,  who  cries  "  Hear, 
hear,''  ought  to  be  satisfied  if  he  thinks 
himself  in  the  'right ;  for  when  he  was 
Minister  of  Finance  he  told  us  that  in  order 
to  fill  up  the  deficit  left  by  his  predecessors, 
he  must  necessarily  have  recourse  to  direct 
taxation.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon.  member 
for  Hochelaga  has  long  wept  over  the  mis- 


702 


fortunes  of  his  couatry.  He  has  long  la- 
mented, like  Jeremiah,  over  the  thought 
of  the  disasters  which  were  overwhelming  it. 
And  at  last,  in  1858,  enlightened  by  the  in- 
telligence of  his  luminous  friend  the  member 
for  Chateauguay,  he  thought  he  had  dis- 
covered in  direct  taxation  the  remedy  for  the 
evils  which  were  bringing  it  to  its  grave. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  to-day  he  rejects  a 
scheme  which  may  save  the  country  without 
its  being  necessary  to  have  recourse  to  this 
extreme  and  objectionable  remedy.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  the  scheme  becomes  law,  not 
only  shall  we  have  a  sufficient  revenue 
to  meet  our  local  expenditure,  but  we 
shall  also  have  a  surplus  with  which, 
if  we  practise  wise  economy,  to  pay  off 
by  degrees  the  residue  of  the  debt  which 
will  remain  to  us.  The  hon.  member  for 
Hochelaga  tells  us  that  Lower  Canada  will 
be  burthencd  with  a  local  debt  of  more  than 
$4,500,000  ;  but  we  have  clear  and  palpable 
proof  that  the  debt  of  Canada,  deducting  the 
part  of  the  Sinking  Fund  which  has  been 
ipaid,  amounts  to  only  §67,500,000.^  Now 
our  share  of  the  Federal  debt  is  established 
at  §62,500,000.  There  will  consequently 
remain  less  than  $5,000,000  to  be  divided 
between  the  two  Canadas,  and  all  the  argu- 
ments of  the  hoa.  member  will  not  change 
so  incontestable  a  fact  as  this.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  do  not  get  these  figures  from  the  Hon. 
Minister  of  Finance.  They  are  given  to  us 
by  a  man  who  is  perfectly  independent  of  all 
Ministers  and  of  all  parties — a  man  whom  I 
myseli  formerly  reproached  with  being  too 
much  so ;  I  allude  to  Mr.  Langton,  the 
Auditor  of  Accounts.  (Hear,  hear.)  We 
do  not  yet  know,  it  is  true,  how  this  debt  of 
four  millions  and  some  hundred  thousand 
dollars  will  be  divided  between  the  two 
Canadas,  but  we  do  know,  without  any  possi- 
bility of  doubt,  that  the  local  revenues  will 
belong  to  the  local  governments,  and 
that  they  will  amply  suffice  for  all  their 
rcquiremetits.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  complains  that  Upper 
Canada  retains  her  public  lands  and  what  is 
owing  to  Government  on  those  lands,  and  he 
maintains  that  Lower  Canada  ought  to  have 
her  share  of  what  those  lands  produce.  But 
did  those  lands  beleug  to  us  before  the 
union,  and  have  we  not  our  own  public 
lauds,  together  with  the  revenue  accruing 
from  them  ?  Have  we  not  more  lands  to 
settle  than  Upper  Canada?  Since  the 
discovery  of  our  gold  and  copper  mines  the 
amount  produced  by  the  sale  of  our  public 


lands  has  increased  fivefold,  whilst  Upper 
Canada  has  hardly  any  land  left  to  sell.  Let 
our  mines  be  opened,  and  we  shall  find  that 
we  have  no  reason  to  envy  Upper  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Everything  is  well  adjusted  ; 
tor  if  we  have  a  less  considerable  revenue 
than  Upper  Canada,  our  population  is  also  less 
numerou-.  Upper  Canada  possesses  a  more 
considerable  revenue,  but  one  which  must 
diminish  with  the  decrease  of  the  quantity  of 
land  to  be  sold,  whilst  we  have  a  revenue 
which  is  gradually  increasing.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  hon.  member  would  no  doubt  hand  over 
the  public  lands  to  the  Confederation  so  as 
to  be  in  accordance  with  his  plan  of  1859, 
as  set  forth  in  the  Montreal  manifesto  ;  but 
I  am  certain  that  Lower  Canada  docs  not 
share  his  opinion.  He  talked  to  us  also  of 
marriage  and  divorce.  He^aid:  *•  Now, 
you  will  not  vote  directly  for  di voice,  but 
you  vote  to  establish  divorce  courts."  Well ! 
no  one  condemns  divorce  more  than  I  do 
myself,  and  I  am  convinced  that  the  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  would  accept  it 
sooner  than  I  would.  But  if  no  mention 
was  made  of  divorce  in  the  Constitution, 
if  it  was  not  assigned  to  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment, it  would  of  necessity  belong  to  the 
local  parliaments  as  it  belongs  to  our  Legis- 
lature now,  although  there  is  not  one  word 
respecting  it  in  the  Unioa  Act.  For  my 
part,  I  would  rather  ^e  that  power  removed 
to  a  distance  from  us,  since  it  must  exist 
somewhere  in  spite  of  us.  (Hear,  he:\r.) 
These  reasonings  on  the  question  of  marriage 
are  extraordinary  to  a  degree,  coming  from 
a  man  holding  a  position  at  the  bar.  They 
are  so  extraordinary,  and  so  inconsistent 
with  all  logic  and  all  law,  that  I  shall  not 
take  the  trouble  of  controverting  them.  The 
explanations  of  the  Government  hive  satis- 
fied me  on  that  point.  The  legislative  power 
of  the  Federal  Parliament  in  relation  to 
marriage  will  only  bo.  that  which  is  conferred 
hy  the  Constitution,  notwithstanding  the 
sinsrular  assertions  of  the  honorable  member. 
(Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.) 

On  motion  of  Dr.  Parker,  the   debate 
was  then  adjourned. 


Tuesday,  7th  March,  18G5. 

The  Order  of  the  Day  being  read  for  re- 
suming the  adjourned  debate  on  Confedera- 
tion,— 


70S 


Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  said— 
Before  the  debate  is  resumed,  I  wish  to  say  a 
few  words.     I  would  call  the  attention  of  the 
House  to  the  telegram  received  to-day — which 
is  rather  confused  in  its  terms — with  reference 
to  a  debate  in  the  House  of  Lords  on  the 
subject  of  the  defences  of  Canada.  According 
to  this  telegram.  "Earl  De  Grey,  Secretary  of 
State  for  War,  admitted  the  importance  of  the 
question,  but  regretted  that  any  doubt  should 
be  expressed  of  the  conciliatory  intentions  of 
the  Americans.     The  Government  would  ask 
a  vote  of  £50,000  for  the  Quebec  defences, 
while  the  Canadians  would  undertake  the  de- 
fences   of  3Iontreal    and    westward."     The 
amount,  according  to   another  statement,   is 
£.30,000.     The  figures  are  apparently  a  mis- 
take for  £300,000.     My  object  in  rising  was 
to  state  that  so  far  as  we  could  gather  from 
this   confused  summary    of  the   debate,   the 
Imperial   Government  were  about  to   ask  a 
a  certain  amount  for  the  defences  of  Quebec, 
while   the   Canadians    would   undertake   the 
defence  of  Montreal  and   the   country  west- 
ward.    I   may  state    it   is   quite    true    that 
the  Imperial  Government  made  a  proposition 
some  time  ago  to  the  effect  that  they  were 
willing  and  prepared  to  recommend  to  Par- 
liament a  vote  for  the  defence  of  Quebec,  as  is 
here  stated,  provided  this  province  undertook 
the  defence  of  Montreal  and  points  westward. 
Negotiations  have  been  going  on  on  this  ques- 
tion between  the  Imperial  Government  and 
the  Canadian  Government  ever  since,  and  I 
think  that  there  is  every   reason    to  believe 
that  these  negotiations  will  result  most  favor- 
ably, and  that  arrangements  will  be  made  in  a 
manner    such    as  to    secure   the  defence   of 
Canada,  both    east  and   west — in  a  manner 
such  as  to  ensure  the  fullest  protection  to  the 
country,  and  as  at  the  same  time  will  not  press 
unduly  on  the  energies  of  the  people.  (Hear.) 
Sir,   those   negotiations   are  still   proceeding 
— they  have  not  yet  concluded — and  it  must 
be  obvious  to  every  honorable  member  who 
has  read  this  short  synopsis  of  the  debate  in 
the  Imperial  Parliament,  that   it   is   of  the 
greatest    possible   importance     that     Canada 
should  not  be  unrepresented  in  England    at 
the   present   time.      (Cheers.)     It   must   be 
evident  to  all  that  some  of  the  leading  mem- 
bers   of    the    Administration   should   be   in 
England  at  this  juncture,  for  the  purpose  of 
attending  to  Canadian  interests,  and  of  con- 
cluding these  negotiations  Avithout  any  loss  of 
time  whatever.  (Hear,  hear.)    It  is  desirable, 
as  I  stated  yesterday,  that  the  two  questions 
of  Federation  and  Defence  should  be  discussed 


at  the  same  moment,  and  that  the  opportunity 
should  be  taken  of  exactly  ascertaining 
the  position  of  British  North  America  with 
respect  to  her  degree  of  reliance  on  the  Im- 
perial Government  in  a  political  sense,  as  well 
as  with  regard  to  the  question  of  defence. 
Therefore,  there  should  not  be  any  loss  of 
time  whatever,  and  with  that  view  the  Gov- 
ernment would  ask  this  House — as  the  dis.-us- 
sion  has  already  uone  on  to  a  considerable 
length,  and  a  great  many  honorable  gentlemen 
have  spi.ken  on  the  subject — that  it  will  offer 
no  undue  delay  in  coming  to  a  conclusion  in 
this  mat  ter.  Of  course  the  Government  would 
not  attempt  to  shut  down  the  floodgates  against 
all  discussion  ;  but  they  would  merely  ask 
and  invite  the  House  to  consider  the  import- 
ance of  as  early  a  vote  as  the  tJouse  can  pro- 
perly allow  to  be  taken  upon  this  question. 
It  is  for  the  House  to  determine  whether  the 
Federation  scheme  which  has  been  proposed 
by  the  Government  and  laid  before  the  House 
is  one  which,  with  all  its  faults,  should  be 
adopted,  or  whether  we  shall  be  thrown  upon 
an  uncertain  future.  In  order  that  the  House 
may  at  once  corny  to  an  understanding  in  the 
matter,  I  shall,  as  I  stated  yesterday,  take 
every  possible  step  known  to  parliamentary 
usage  to  get  a  vote  as  soon  as  it  can  con- 
veniently be  got,  and  I  have  th  refore  now  to 
move  the  previous  question.  (Ironical  Oppo- 
sition cheers  and  counter  cheering.)  I  move, 
sir,  that  the  main  question  be  now  put. 
(More  cheeiing.)  Honorable  gentlemen  op- 
posite know  very  well  that  my  making  this 
motion  does  not  in  any  way  stop  the  deb>te. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  House  will  be  gratified 
to  hear,  and  will  still  have  an  opportunity  of 
hearing,  from  the  honorable  member  from 
Chateauguay  (Hon.  Mr.  Holton),  who  cries 
"Hear,  hear,"  an  expression  of  opinion 
whether  this  scheme  is  so  objectionable  that 
the  House  would  be  wise  in  rejecting  it,  with 
nothing  now  offered  as  a  substitute,  and  no 
future  to  look  to.  It  will  afford  us  all  great 
pleasure  to  hear  the  honorable  gentleman  say 
whether  we  should  adopt  this  scheme.  There 
is  an  inlependent  motion  on  the  paper  of  my 
honorable  friend  from  Peel  (Hon.  J.  H. 
Cameron).  My  motion  does  not  interfere 
with  that.  But  if  the  House  should  consider 
that  this  scheme  ought  to  be  adopted,  my 
honorable  friend  will  then  have  an  opportunity 
of  proposing  his  motioi.     (Hear,  hear.) 

The  SPEAKER— If  honorable  gentlemen 
desire  it,  I  will  i  ead  the  rule  of  the  House  as 
to  the  previous  question.  The  35th  rule  of 
the   House  is   as  follows :— <'  The  previous 


704 


question,  until  it  is  decided,  shall  preclude  all 
amendments  to  the  main  question" — (ironical 
Opposition  cheers) — "  and  shall  be  in  the 
following  word; — '  That  this  question  be  now 
put.'  It  th'j  previous  question  be  resolved  in 
the  affirmative,  the  original  question  is  put 
forthwith,  without  amendment  or  debate." 
(Hear,  bear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  CARTIER— Mr.  Speaker,  I 
second  the  motion.  (Derisive  Opposition 
cheers.) 

TuE  SPEAKER— The  motion  is  that 
this  question  be  now  put. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  shall  not  on  this 
occasion,    sir,  make  any  remarks  as  to  the 
mode  of  proceeding  adopted  by  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  West,  further  than   this, 
that  a  friend,  an  honorable  member  of  this 
House,  intimated  to  me  yesterday  that  this 
course  was  likely  to  be  pursued  by  the  Gov- 
ernment   in  order    to  crowd    this    measure 
throu2;h  the  House.     I  scouted  the  idea.      I 
thought  it  was  impossible  that  a  government, 
numbering  in  its  ranks  public  men  who  have 
played  a  prominent  part  in  the  parliamentary 
history  of  this  country  for  some  years,  could 
resort  to  so  base  a  trick — (cheers  and  coun- 
ter  cheers) — after  having   introduced    this 
measure  in  the  manner  they  have  done — after 
having  introduced  it  in  a  most  unparliament- 
ary and  unconstitutional  manner — and  seeing 
that  amendments  would  be  made  to  several 
of  the  propositions  contained  in  the  resolu- 
tions adopted  by  the  Conference  which  assem- 
bled in  Quebec,  they  shut  off  all  opportunity 
to  amend  the  measure  by  moving  the  previous 
question.      (Hear,  hear.)      Why  was  it  not 
stated  by  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
West  himself  that  we  would  be  able  to  get 
at  the  sense  of  the  House  upon  every  one  of 
the  propositions,    by  moving    amendments  ? 
(Hoar,  hear.)      In  full  confidence   that  that 
pledge  would  be  kept,  when  my  honorable 
friend  who  sits  near  me  told  me  he  had  reason 
to  believe  that  this   very  course  was  in  con- 
templation,   I    repeat    1    scouted    the    idea. 
(Hear,  hear.)      1  shall  not  offer  any  further 
observations  on  this  point  at  the  present  mo- 
ment, beyond  remarking  that  if  the  object  be 
to  curtail  debate,  as  the  honorable  gentleman 
says  it  is — if  his  real  motive  be  in  truth  to  ar- 
rive at  an  early  vote  upon  this  question — his 
own   statement  shows  how  utterly  futile  his 
motion    is  to  accomplish  that  end.      It  was 
not  at  all  necessary   that  the  honorable  gen- 
tleman   should    have  told     us   that    we  may 
discuss  the  previous  question.     Wo  arc  now, 
by  a  compact  which  I  presume  will  not  be 


violated — although  I  do  not  know  what  at- 
tempt will  be  made  next — we  are  practically 
in  Committee  of  the  Whole,  with  liberty  to 
speak  as  often  as  we  please  on  this  question. 
Therefore,  the  object  stated  by  the  honorable 
gentleman  cannot  be  attained,  but   another 
object  can  be  and  will  be  attained — they  will 
take  their  followers,  whom  they  have  already 
led  on  to  do  things  of  which  they  will  bitterly 
repent  when    they  come  face  to  face  with 
their     constituents,    and     drag    them    still 
further  thi'ough  the  mire — (cheers  and  coun- 
ter cheers) — by  depriving  them  of  the  oppor- 
tunity of  putting  on  record  their  views,  even 
in  the  inconvenient  form  of  amendments,  upon 
the  various  propositions  which  are  proposed 
to  be  embodied  in  this  Address  to  the  Crown. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Sir,  the  honorable  gentleman 
says  that  the  information  received  by  tele- 
graph in  reference  to  the  defences  renders  it 
necessary  that  an  early   decision  should  be 
come  to  in  the  matter  of  Federation.     But 
what  has  been  the  course  of  the  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite,  throughout  this  debate, 
when  the  subject  of  the  defences  has  been  re- 
ferred to  ?     When  we  have  said — "  Put  us  in 
possession   of  the  necessary   information   to 
consider  the  subject  of  the  defences,  which 
must   be   discussed  in   connection   with  the 
scheme  of  Confederation,"  what  hsis  been  the 
reply  ?     Why,  that  there  was  no  natural  or 
necessary  connection  between  the  two  sub- 
jects.   (Hear,  hear.)     Thus,  when  the  honor- 
able gentlemen  were  asked  to  bring  down  the 
information  in  regard  to  the  defences,  they 
have  maintained  that  there  is  no  connection 
between  tho  two   questions ;  but  when  they 
have  a  purpose  to  serve  by  so  doing,  they  re- 
verse their  position  and  say,  '*  By  all  means 
rush  this  thing  through  with  all  possible  speed, 
in  order  that  the  country  may  be  placed  in  a  po- 
sition of  defence."  I  think,  sir,  we  are  entitled 
at  this  stage  of  the  debate,  and  under  these 
circumstances,  to  demand  that  all  the  infor- 
mation in  possession   of  the   Government  iu 
regard  to  the  defences,  should  be  laid  before 
the  House.     I  believe  there  is  no  better  re- 
cognized parliamentary   rule   than   this,  that 
when  a  Minister  of  tho  Crown  rises  iu  his 
place  in  Parliament  u\id  relbrs  to  despatches 
on   matters  of  public  importance,  these  des- 
patches must  be  laid  before  the  House.     It 
is  founded  on  the  same  rule  which  prevails  iu 
our  courts,  which  retjuircs  that  any  paper  re- 
ferred  to  in  evidence  or  argument,  in  order 
to  be  of  use,  must  be  in  the  possession  of  the 
court.    I  should  like  to  ask  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  West  tho  question — and  I  pause  for 


705 


an  answer — whether  it  is  the  intention  of  the 
Government,  before  pressing  this  resolution 
to  a  vote,  to  place  the  House  in  possession  of 
the  information  for  which  I  am  now  seeking  ? 
Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD  — It 
certainly  is  not,  and  for  reasons  of  the  best 
kind. 

Hon.    xMr.    HOLTON— The    honorable 
gentleman    says   it   certainly   is   not.       And 
yet  he  asks  us   to   give  a  vote,   in   view  of 
information  which  he    withholds,   not  mere- 
ly on  the  question  of  the  defences,  but    of 
Confederation    as    well.     If    the    honorable 
gentleman     had     used    the    arguments    for 
withholdins:     information      which     he     has 
put   forth,  if    the   proposition   were    simply 
a   money   vote  to   place    the    country   in    a 
state  of  defence,  there  might  be  some  reason 
in  it,   but  he   is  using  them  to  induce   us 
to  vote  for  a  political  scheme  embracing  all 
sorts  of  things  other  than   the  question  of 
defence.     The  position  the  hon.  gentleman 
now  assumes  is  unconstitutional;   but  being 
unconstitutional,  it  is  in  perfect  keeping  with 
the   whole  course   of    this    Administration 
since   its  formation    in   June  last,  when    it 
initiated  its  existence  by  pledging  the  Crown, 
in  a  written  document,  uot  to  exercise  the 
prerogative    of    dissolution    until    another 
session  of  this  Parliament  should  have  been 
held.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  say  that  their  course 
in   this  instance  is  in  keeping  with  every 
step  they  have  taken  since  their  formation. 
Well,  sir,  I  have  put  one  question  to  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  West,  and  I  propose  now, 
with   the   leave    of   my   hon.    friend    the 
member    for    ^orth    Wellington,    who    is 
entitled  to  the  floor,  to  put  another  question. 
He   may  answer  it   or  not,    as   he   thinks 
proper ;  but  the  country  will  draw   its  own 
inference  from  his  reply.       Yesterday,   he 
stated  that  in  consequence  of  the  result  of 
the  New  Brunswick  elections,  it  had  become 
tolerably   apparent   that    this    scheme    had 
received  its  first  check.     In  other  words,  he 
admitted  plainly  that  the  result  of  the  New 
Brunswick  elections    was    adverse    to   the 
scheme.      I  may  add,  that  he  knows  very 
well  a  majority  of  the  present  Parliament  of 
Nova  Scotia  is  adverse  to  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— No!  no! 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  say,  yes;  and  in 
the  Island  of  Prince  Edward,  there  is  no 
probability  whatever  of  the  scheme  being 
accepted.  Well,  notwithstanding  this,  he 
says  that  he  shall  press  this  measure  to  a 
vote.  A  question  was  put  yesterday,  which 
90 


was  answered;  but  there  is  some  misap- 
prehension as  to  the  purport  of  the  answer, 
and  I  think  it  will  be  admitted  to  be  a 
question  in  regard  to  which  there  should 
not  be  any  misapprehension  whatever. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— You  could 
not  understand  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Well,  I  admit  the 
obtuseness  of  my  understanding.  The 
question  I  desire  to  ask  the  leader  of  the 
Government  is  this — Is  it  the  intention  of 
the  Government  to  press  for  Imperial  legis- 
lation, under  the  Address  which  they  are 
now  inviting  the  House  to  adopt,  affecting 
the  Lower  Provinces,  or  any  of  them,  with- 
out the  concurrence  of  those  provinces  ? 
That  is  the  question  I  desire  to  ask  the  hon. 
gentleman. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— It  is 
not  the  intention  of  the  Canadian  Govern- 
ment to  press  the  Imperial  Government  to 
pass  any  act  whatever. 

Hon'.  Mr.  HOLTON— Then  clearly  the 
hon.  gentleman  was  misunderstood  yester- 
day. He  then  stated  that  it  was  of  the 
highest  possible  importance  this  measure 
should  pass  without  delay,  in  order  that  the 
Ministry  might  go  home  and  consult  with 
the  Imperial  Government  in  respect  to  the 
bill  to  be  introduced  to  give  effect  to  this 
Address. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — And  that  is  correct. 
Mr.  RANKIN — The  Govreinment  do  not 
intend  to  "press"  for  Imperial  legislation. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  do  not  want  to 
quibble  about  mere  words.  What  I  want  to 
know  is — whether,  in  pursuance  of  this 
Address,  hon.  gentlemen  intend  to  ask,  or 
have  any  reason  to  expect  that  the  Imperial 
Government — (Hon.  Mr.  Brown — "  Oh  ! 
oh  ! ") — or  have  any  reason  to  expect  that 
the  Imperial  Government  will  legislate  with- 
out the  concurrence  of  the  Lower  Provinces  ? 
Whether,  in  point  of  fact,  if  the  concurrence 
of  the  Lower  Provinces  be  withheld  from 
the  scheme  of  the  Conference,  he  has  reason 
to  believe  that  legislation  can  be  had  thereon? 
I  desire  to  know,  first,  whether  he  intends  to 
ask  for  such  legislation;  and,  second,  whether 
he  thinks  it  can  be  had  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDOxVALD- I 
think  the  House,  and  even  the  hon.  gentle- 
man himself,  must  see  the  unreasonableness 
of  the  question  he  asks,  which  is,  whether 
I  have  any  expectation  that  the  British 
Government  will  enact  some  compulsory 
law   against   the   will   of  the    Lower   Pro- 


706 


vinces  on  the  question  of  Federation.     All 
that  I  can  say  is,  that  I  have  uo  better  means 
of  forming  an  opinion  on  the  subject  than  the 
Lon.    gentleman    himself.      ^Vhat    I    stated 
yesterday  I  repeat  to-day,  that  the  Canadian 
Goverument,  knowing   that  the  opinion  of 
the    people    of    New   Biunswick    has    been 
expressed    against    Federation,    would    em- 
braie    the    earliest    opportunity    of  discuss- 
ing   with    the     Imperi- 1     Grovercment    the 
poi^ition.|f  Biitish  North  America,  especially 
with  reference  tc  the  j  resent  state  of  affairs 
in  Canada,  cuntaining  a  population  of  four- 
fifths  ot  the  people  of  British  North  America, 
in    favor    of    Federation,    as    against     New 
]3runswick,  with  a  population   of  two  hun- 
d-ed  odd  tiiousand  against  it.      In  discussing 
the  question    wiih    lier   MajcFty's    Imperial 
advisers,  we   shall    probably    enter  into  the 
consideration    of    the     whole    matter;    but 
what  the  nature  of  these  di.'-cu'^sions  may  be, 
or  what  they  will  lead  to  or  will  not  had  to, 
I   CLUtot  possibly  say.     They   u^ay  lead  to 
conclusions,  hut  what  those  c  nclu>ion;'  may 
be  no  mortal  man   can  ttU.      We  cannot  say 
to    what    conclu-ious  ihe  Imperial  Govern- 
ment may  come.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.   Mil.   HOL'JON— I  am  obliged  to 
the   honorable   gentleman   fur  his  couiteous 
answer.     1  think  it  is,  on  the  whole,  a  satis- 
factory answer,   because  the  answer  plainly 
implies  this,  that  without  the   conturronce 
of  the  Lower  Provinces  tliis  u  easuro  cannot 
go  on.     Th;.t  is  the  plain   implication.     We 
know  well  that  we  shall   not  have  the  con- 
currence of  ti.e  Jjower  Piovinc(S,  and  there- 
fore it  is  absurd  to  ask  this  House  to  ■  ote  a 
measure    which    the    honorable    gentlemen 
themselves,    as    thty   have    ribci.    one    after 
another  in  the  couise  of  this  debate,  have 
declired    to    be    an    imperfect    mei.sure — a 
measure  of  c  mpromise — not  such  a  meusure 
as  th'.y,  in  many  respects,  desired  and  advo- 
cated, hut  a  measure   which   tiny   had   con- 
currtd  in  for  the  ]iurpose  ot   iiiducing  the 
Lower   ProvitjC'S   to    heco:i  e   parties  to   it. 
Why,   1   ask,  should    this    House   be  Cil'ed 
upon  to  vote  for  the  object ionable  features 
of  a  scheme,  when   there  is  no  lon«:er  any 
reason  for  such  a  vote — when  it  is  admitted 
that  the  Lc-wer  Piovinces,  lor  whose  sake 
these  objcctioi  able  ieatun  .^  weic  intmduced, 
will  not   consent  ami  cannot  be  coerced  into 
h'{  (Hear,  hear  J  'J  he  Hon.  Pnsideutoi  the 
V^ouncil  told   the  people  of  Ti  lonto,  at  tl  e 
banquet   recently    held    there,   that   ho   was 
entiiely  opposed  to  the  new   constitution  of 
the   Legiblutive   Council,  and    that   ho  op- 


posed it  in  the  Conference.     "W^e  know  a'so 
that  that  feature  of  the  scheme  is  very  objec- 
tionable to   the  whole  of  what   might  once 
have  been  called  the  Liberal  party,  but  the 
Hon.  President  of  the  Council  his  destroyed 
that  party,  and  it  is  not,  perhaps,  right  to 
speak  of  it  as  the  Liberal  party  any  longer — 
they  are  only  now  to  te  known  as  those  who 
once  ranged  themselves  together,  in  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada,  under  tlie  Liberal  banner. 
The  Hon  Presidentof  the Counci' stated,  that 
as  representing  in  the  Conference  the  l^iberal 
party  of  Upper  Canada — the  Jjiberal  pai  ty  of 
Lower  Canada  having  no  representation   in 
the  Conference  at  all — as   representiig  the 
Liberal   party  of  Upper  Canada,  the   party 
from  that  section  which  is  in  a  large  ma- 
jority in  this  House,  the  honorable  gentle- 
man   stated    that    he    was    opposed   to   this 
feature  of  the  scheme — a  feature  which  is 
known    to    be    as    unpalatable    to    a    large 
mnjority  of  this  House  as  it  is   to  tl:e  hon. 
gentlemun   himself      I  nierely  mention  this 
to  illustrate    my  argument.       M'hy    shouU 
hon.  gentlemen,  who  were  disposed  to  accept 
this    scheme    as   a  whole,    notwiihstanding 
these  objectionable  fea'ures — who  were  dis- 
posed to  jiCeept  it,  on  the  grounds  set  foith 
by  their  leaders,  as  a  measure  ol  compromise 
— why,  I   ask,  shiuld    they   now  be   called 
upon  to    vote  in  opposition   to  their  convic- 
tions,   merely  to   gratify  the  unumr  jn-opn 
of    the    hon.    gentlemen     on    the    'i'rea.^ury 
benches,  whose  d>.sirc  it  is  to  carry  threugh 
the  House  an  Address  which,  by    their  own 
admission  made  to  this   House,  must  be  of 
uou-effect?     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MAC  DONALD— But 
that  It  will  be  the  Constitution  of  this 
country,  I  am  sati.-fied. 

Hon.  xMr.  HOLTON— The  ton.  gentle- 
man boasts  that  it  will  be  the  Coustitutioa  of 
this  Country  ? 

Hun.  Atxy.  Gen.  MACDONALD — 
What  1  meant  was,  of  all  liiitish  Nwrth 
America. 

Hon.  Ma.  HOLTON— The  hon.  gentle- 
man said  "  of  this  coun;ry."  i  ho  lum. 
gentleman,  therefore,  admits  tliat  if  he  tails 
in  procuring  the  concurrence  of  the  LoWit 
Provinces  to  the  mcasurt —  that  if  they 
ci.uuot  be  brought  into  the  scheme  ior  ro- 
cuLstructiug  their  Governments — th  y  are 
going  to  ask  the  Imperial  Governmi  nt  to 
luund  a  Constitution  ior  the  two  Cuuadaa 
upou  these  resolutions. 
Hon.  Atty.  Gj^n.  MACDONALJ     -Tha 


707 


lion,  gentleraari  has  drawa  erroneous  in- 
ferences fVoin  what  I  stited.  When  I  said 
I  hal  no  floubt  that  the  resolutions  now 
bifjre  the  Flouse  would  be  the  Gonstitution 
of  this  couiitry,  I  meant  to  say  I  had  no 
more  doubt  than  that  I  stand  here  that  it 
would  bS  adopted  not  only  by  Canada,  but 
by  the  other  provincos. 

Hon.   Mr    HOLTOX— Ah!     The  hon. 
goiitle:nan  has  'no  doubt." 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— You 
are  trying  to  twist  ray  words;  but  go  on. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— I  have  not  had 
the  same  training  as  the  honorable  gentleman 
iu  the  way  of  word  twisting.  I  take  his 
words  in  their  plain  and  literal  sense.  He 
says  he  has  no  doubt  that  these  resolutions 
Will  form  the  Constitution  of  this  country. 
Then,  sir,  why  do  not  honorable  gentlemen 
keep  faith?  Why  does  not  the  Hon.  President 
of  the  Council,  in  an  especial  manner,  keep 
faith  with  his  party,  by  giving  us  the  scheme 
which  he  pledged  himself,  in  the  event  of 
BU(.h  a  contingency  as  this,  should  be 
■brought  down  during  this  session  of  Parlia- 
meut?  The  honorable  gentleman  does  not 
find  it  convenient  to  answer.  -I  confess  I 
did  not  expect  an  answer;  but  nevertheless 
I  thought  it  desirable  to  put  the  question  to 
him.  I,  equally  with  other  members  of  the 
House,  can  draw  my  inferences  from  his 
silence.  He  knows  very  well  it  is  a  viola- 
tion of  the  programn/e  under  which  he 
entered  the  Grovernment ;  and  well  he  knows 
that  it  is  a  departure  from  the  avowal  ^'hich 
constituted,  I  will  not  say  his  justification, 
but  his  sole  excuse  for  occupying  the  seat 
which  he  now  fills.  The  question  is  now 
asked  whether  it  is  intended  by  the  Govern- 
ment to  go  to  England  and  ask  the  Imperial 
Parliament  to  establish  a  Constitution  for 
this  country,  the  principles  of  which  have 
never  bt'en  considered,  because  we  are  con- 
siJering  now  the  scheme  of  Federation  for 
the  whole  country  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD-I 
Btated  that  the  first  thing  to  be  done  by  the 
Government,  in  the  summer  session,  would 
be  to  submit  a  measure  for  fully  carrying 
out  tue  programme  First,  carry  Confeder- 
arion,  aud  when  we  met  again  we  would 
bring  in  a  scheme  for  the  local  govern- 
ments of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Yes,  local  gov- 
ernments. I  am  obliged  to  the  honorable 
gentleman  for  reminding  me  of  the  local 
govtrnments;    but  I  was  speaking  of  the 


General  Government  cf  Canada.  (Hear' 
hear.)  1  think  it  lollowj  irresistibly  from 
the  admission  of  the  hon.  gentleman  to-day, 
that  it  is  their  intention  to  se^k  a  general 
Coostit  ition  for  Canada  under  these  resolu- 
tions, without  ever  having  subnitted  that 
question  to  the  House.  Well,  sir,  there  is 
another  reason  perhaps  for  the  course  taken 
by  hon.  gentlemim  yesterday  and  pursued 
to-d  ly.  It  has  always  been  a  theory  of  ray 
own — perhips  it  has  not  yet  been  demon- 
strated by  facts — 

Hon.    Atty.    Gen.    MACDONALD— 
Hear,  hoar. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON"— I  say  it  has  always 
been  a  theory  of  my  own,  and  facts  are 
rapidly  demonstrating  the  truth  of  that 
theory,  that  this  Gjverntnent  was  funned  in 
consetiuence  of  the  emergencies  of  certain 
gentlemen  who  were  in  otfi;e,  and  desired  to 
retain  office,  and  of  certain  other  gentlemen 
who  wore  out  of  office  and  who  desired  to 
come  in.  I  believe  that  the  whole  constitu- 
tional difficulties,  or  alleged  constitutional 
difficulties,  of  this  country  arose  from  the 
personal  nr  rather  the  political  emergencies 
into  which  certain  hon.  gentlemen  f'und 
themselves,  from  oiuses  to  which  I  shall  not 
row  advert.  (Hear,  bar.)  Well,  sir,  feeling 
that  this  scheme  has  failed — feeling  that  the 
pretext  upon  which  they  have  held  office 
for  six  or  nine  months  is  about  to  fail  them, 
they  devise  other  means,  as  a  sort  of  lure  to 
the  country,  whereby  office  may  be  kept  for 
a  further  period.  I  admit  the  dexterity  with 
which  the  thing  is  done — a  dexterity  for 
which  the  H.m.  Attorney  General  West  has 
long  been  famous  in  tliis  country.  His 
theory  is  :  "  Take  care  of  to-day — when 
to-morrow  comes  we  will  see  what  can  be 
done'' — and  by  adhering  to  this  maxim  he 
has  managed  to  lengthen  out  the  term  of  his 
political  existi'oce.  That,  I  believe,  will  be 
acknowledged  to  be  the  theory  upon  which 
the  hon.  gentleman  acts. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gkn.  MACDOXALD— And 
a  very  sensible  theory  it  is.     (Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON" — A  sensible  theory 
no  doubt  it  is.  I  am  glad  to  hear  that  the 
hon.  gentleman  does  not  deny  the  fact;  but 
while  admitting  that  he  has  achieved  a  coq- 
-iderable  measure  of  success  in  this  way, 
whether,  after  all  that  success,  he  has  earned 
the  highest  kind  of  reward  of  a  public  life — 
whether  there  is  anybody  who  speaks  or 
thinks  of  the  hon.  gentleman  as  a  statesman, 
may    perhaps   bo  doubted.     It  is  adnutted 


708 


hat  he  is  an  adroit  manager — his  manage- 
ment being  based  on  the  theory  of  doing 
to-day  what  must  be  done  to-day,  and  of 
leaving  till  to-morrow  whatever  can  be  de- 
ferred. I  doubt,  however,  after  all,  whether, 
when  the  hon.  gentleman  comes  to  review  his 
career,  he  will  be  satisfied  that  that  sort  of 
policy  brings  with  it  the  highest  rewards  of 
pul  lie  life. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MAODONALD— I 
shall  be  quite  satisfied  to  allow  the  hon. 
member  for  Chateauguay  to  be  my  bio- 
grapher.    (Laughter.) 

Hon.   Mr.  HOLTOX— But   while   that 
has  been  his  theory  and  his  practice,  and  a 
certain  dcLrec  of  success   has   attended  it,  I 
would  like  to  ask  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  whether  he  has  heretofore  acted  upon 
that  theory,  and  whether  he  can  quite  afford  to 
act  upon  it  now  ?     Most  of  us  remember — 
those  of  us  who  have  been  for  a  few  years  in 
public  life  in  this  country,  must  remember  a 
very  striking  speech   delivered   by  the  hon. 
member  for  South  Oxford  ^Honorable  Mr. 
Brown"),  in  Toronto,  in  the  session  of  1856 
or  1857 — he  has   delivered   many  striking 
speeches  in  his  time,  but  this  was  one  of  the 
most  striking — in  which  he  described  the 
path  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West  as 
being  studded  all  along  by  the  grave-stones 
of  his  slaughtered  colleagues.    (Hear,  hear.) 
Well,  there  are  not  wanting  those  who  think 
they  descry  in  the  not  very  remote  distance, 
a   yawning  grave   waiting    for   the    noblest 
victim  of  them  all.     (Laughter  }     And  I 
very  much  fear,  that  unless  the  hon.  gentle- 
man has  the  courage  to  assert  his  own   ori- 
ginal strength — and  he  has  great  strength — 
and  to  discard  the  blandishments   and  the 
sweets  of  office,  and  to  plant  himself  where 
he  stood  formerly,  in  the  affections  and  con- 
fidence of  the  people  of  this  country,  as  the 
foremost  defender  of  the  rights  of  the  {  eople, 
as  the  foremost  champion  of  the  privileges  of 
a  free  Parliament — unless  he  hastens  tj  do 
that,  I  very  much  fear  that  he  too  may  iall 
a  victim — as  I  have  said,  the  noblest  victim 
of  them  all — to  the  arts,  if  not  the  arms,  of 
the  fell   destroyer.     (Laughter.)     I  desire, 
as  I   am   on   my  feet — and    am    not    at  all 
certain  that  I  shall,  under  the  new  phase  of 
things,  trouble  the  House  with  any  length- 
ened observations — I  desire   to  say   a   Jew 
words  on    the   merits    of  this   question   of 
defence.     Of  course  I  hold,  as  1    presume 
every  man  in  this  country  holds,  that  the 
people  that  will  not  defend  themselves  are 
unworthy    of    free    institutions.      I    hold 


that  we  must  defend  ourselves  against  all 
aggressors,  in  the  best  way  we  can.  I  think 
the  policy  we  have  been  pursuing  for  some 
years  past,  of  enrolling  our  people  and  train- 
ing them  to  the  use  of  arms  and  in  military 
exercise,  and  in  the  instructing  of  officers 
who  might  lead  them,  should  necessity  re- 
quire— 1  think  all  that  is  sound  policy.  I 
would  even  go  somewhat  further  in  that 
direction  than  we  have  gone  heretofore  But 
if  honorable  gentlemen  propose  thai  we 
should  establish  a  standing  army — that  we 
should  equip  a  navy — that  we  should  go 
into  a  costly  system  of  permanent  fortifica- 
tions, they  are  proposing  what  is  beyond 
the  strength  of  the  country — they  are  pro- 
posing what  will  speedily  bring  financial 
ruin  on  the  country — and  by  bringing  finan- 
cial ruin  on  the  country,  and  by  creating 
thereby  dissatisfaction  among  the  people, 
they  will  prepare  the  way  to  that  very  event 
which  they  profess  so  strongly  to  deprecate. 
I  believe,  if  it  has  not  that  effect,  it  will 
certainly  result  in  depopulating  our  country. 
Already  the  work  of  depopulation  is  going 
on. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Oh  !  oh  ! 
Hon.  Mr.  HOLTOX— Throughout  the 
whole  of  the  western  counties  of  Canada,  at 
the  present  moment,  there  is  a  greater 
amount  of  financial  distress  and  of  malaise 
than  I  have  known  for  twenty-five  years.  I 
challenge  the  honorable  gentlemen  around  me 
to  contradict  the  statement.  And  I  say  we 
are  not  in  a  position  to  Ptand  very  great  ad- 
ditional burdens  on  our  resources.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Then  what  is  the  condition  of  our 
finances  ?  The  honorable  gentleman  who 
presides  over  our  finances  did  not  venture 
the  other  day  to  dispute  the  statement  I 
made,  that  every  branch  of  the  roveiiue  was 
falling  off,  and  that  we  had  an  inevitable 
deficit  for  this  current  year  staring  us  in  the 
face.     Is  it  not  so  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — The  hon.  gentleman 
may  repeat  his  own  statfment,  but  he  must 
not  put  it  in  my  mouth. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— The  hon.  gentle- 
man did  not  venture  to  deny  it,  and  I 
thought  the  gravity  of  the  statement  was 
such  that  be  would  have  denied  it,  if  he 
could. 

rloN.  Mr.  GALT— Make  your  statement 
on  your  own  responsibility,  not  mine 

Hon.  Mr.  iiOLTON— Then,  I  say,  on 
my  own  responsibility,  that  every  branch  of 
the  revenue  has  been  falling  off  since  the 


709 


beginning  of  this  year,  except  the  compara- 
tively small  amount  from  bill  stamps. 

Hon.  Mr.  G-ALT — Do  you  say  every 
branch  of  the  revenue,  with  the  exception 
you  mention  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Yes. 

Hon.  Mr.  G ALT— Then  you  will  be 
shewn  that  it  is  not  so,  when  you  sit  down. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Of  course  I  shall 
be  glad  to  hear  it.  That  is  the  sort  of  in- 
formation we  want  before  we  give  hon.  gen- 
tlemen a  vote  of  credit,  and  allow  them  to  go 
to  England  to  do  as  tbey  please  for  the  next  six 
months.  It  may  be  that  the  revenue  has  been 
brought  up  within  the  last  few  weeks  from 
accidental  causes.  A  rumor  got  abroad  that 
the  Hon.  Finance  Minister  intended  to  make 
a  change  in  the  duties,  and  in  two  or  three 
of  our  large  cities  a  rush  was  made  to  the 
bonding  warehouses,  in  order  to  save  the 
additional  amount  that  would  be  exacted  by 
the  change  in  duties.  This,  no  doubt,  in- 
creased the  receipts  for  the  time  being,  and 
it  is  just  possible  that  from  that  cause  the 
revenue  may  have  regained  something  of 
what  it  had  lost  during  the  earlier  weeks  of 
the  present  year.  Then,  too,  the  state  of 
our  securities  in  England — which  was  so 
much  improved,  according  to  the  statement 
of  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council,  by  the 
action  of  the  Quebec  Conference, — is  now 
anything  indeed  but  tatisfactory.  I  believe 
that  with  the  exception  of  the  point  they 
touched  at  one  time  in  October,  or  early  in 
November,  and  which  they  touched  then  for 
a  very  brief  space — they  are  lower  novv^  and 
have  been  lower  for  a  longer  time  than  they 
have  been  at  any  period  before  since  the 
union.  I  think,  therefore,  wc  are  not  in  a 
position  to  impose  heavy  and  unmeasured 
burdens  upon  our  people,  for  the  purpose  of 
establishing  a  standing  army,  or  for  the  pur- 
pose of  constructing  permanent  fortifications. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  I  have  said  more  than 
I  intended  when  I  rose,  and  shall  no  longer 
deprive  my  hon.  friend  from  North  Welling- 
ton  (Dr.  Parker)  of  the  floor. 

Hon.  i\fR.  BROWN—I  shall  detain  the 
House  but  a  very  few  minutes  in  replying 
to  the  hon.  gentleman  who  has  just  taken 
his  seat.  As  regards  his  statement  that  the 
revenue  has  fallen  off  to  the  extent  of  which 
he  speaks,  in  every  branch,  it  is  entirely 
erroneous.  It  will  be  shewn  when  the  pro- 
per time  comes,  when  the  House  is  asked  to 
grant  supplies,  that  the  revenue  is  very  far 
from  being  in  the  hopeless  position  which 


the  hon.  gentleman  has  stated.  And  I  ap- 
prehend his  assertion  with  regard  to  the 
condition  of  the  province  is  as  greatly  exag- 
gerated as  his  other  statement.  It  is  very 
true  that  many  portions  of  our  country  un- 
fortunately labor  at  this  moment  under 
considerable  depression  ;  but  no  intelligent 
person,  who  considers  the  circumstances,  will 
think  that  this  is  at  all  extraordinary.  We 
are  alongside  a  country  engaged  in  a  fearful 
war.  Our  commercial  relations  with  that 
country,  with  which  we  usually  have  im- 
mense transactions,  are  very  greatly  dis- 
turbed. Then  we  have  had  short  crops  for 
several  years,  and  our  banks  are  all  very 
properly  under  close-reefed  topsail?.  These 
and  other  causes  have  contributed  to  produce 
the  stagnation  that  now  exists,  and  a  general 
disposition  to  curtail  business  operations. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  with  all  this — notwith- 
standing the  scarcity  of  money,  and  a  good 
deal  of  embarrassment  and  suffering  from  its 
scarcity — I  venture  to  affirm  that  the  great 
branches  of  our  national  industry  wore  never 
on  a  sounder  basis;  that  business  men  have 
not  for  years  owed  loss  debt  than  at  this 
moment;  and  when  a  better  state  of  things 
sets  in,  the  evils  of  which  the  hon.  gentleman 
speaks  will  not  be  found  to  have  been  very 
deep-seated.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon.  gen- 
tleman is  exceedingly  anxious  that  I  should 
fulfil  the  pro:iiises  I  made  to  the  country  at 
the  time  I  entered  this  Adiijinistration. 
The  hon.  gentleman,  I  think,  would  show  a 
little  more  discretion  if  he  allowed  me  to 
judge  for  myself  of  the  best  way  in  which  I 
should  fulfil  those  promises.  When,  in  the 
short  space  of  six  months,  the  Government 
have  come  down  with  a  matured  scheme,  in- 
volving such  important  changes,  and  placed  it 
before  Parliament  in  the  eandid  way  in  which 
they  have  submitted  it,  I  think  the  country  has 
no  good  cause  to  complain,  either  of  time 
having  been  lost  in  the  fulfilment  of  my 
promises,  or  in  the  manner  of  fulfilling  them 
(Henr.  hear.)  And  I  think  ic  ill-becomes 
the  hon.  gentleman — when  he  has  heard  it 
declared  that,  notwithstanding  what  has 
occurred  in  New  Brunswick,  we  siill  adhere 
to  the  basis  on  which  the  Government  was 
formed — that  all  we  ask  is  time  to  ascertain 
how  our  scheme  can  best  be  carried  into 
effect — and  that  in  the  brief  period  of  a  very 
few  weeks  we  will  be  prepared  to  meet  Par- 
liament again,  and  declare  the  result 
of  our  enquiries' — I  do  say  it  ill  becomes 
an  honorable  gentleman,  professing  to  be 
in  favor  of  constitutional  changes^  to  get  up 


710 


here  and  endeavor  to  create  au  unfounded 
prejudice  a<^ainst  those  who  are  thus 
shewing  in  every  way  their  determination  to 
discharge  fully  and  promptly  their  duty  to 
the  country.  The  ho  orable  gentleman  says 
]  have  broken  up  tiie  Liberal  party.  He  says 
there  was  a  Liber  d  party  in  Upper  Canada 
and  a  Liberal  party  in  Lower  Canada,  who 
were  acting;  cordially  together,  aid  that  I 
have  destroyed  the  harmony  which  existed 
between  them.  I  shdl  not  enter  icto  that 
discussion  now.  The  time  will  come  when 
it  can  be  fully  gone  into  without  danger  to 
public  interests,  and  I  promise  the  honorable 
geutlema  to  give  him  hi:-  answer.  But  I 
Jiave  ihis  to  state  ia  the  meantime  to  the  hon- 
orable gentleman,  that  I  think  it  is  not  for 
him  at  least  to  throw  such  taunts  across  the 
table,  w.ien  he  recollects  that  in  a  speech  he 
ujade  in  this  House  only  last  session,  on  the 
announcement  of  this  Coalition,  he  stated 
that  he  could  make  no  complaint  as  to  the 
course  I  had  taken ;  that  under  the  circum- 
stances I  could  only  act  as  I  bad  done.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  he  cau  find  any  act  of  mine  in 
contradiction  of  the  couise  I  took  then,  he 
has  a  right  to  blame  me.  But  so  long  as  1 
am  carrying  out  in  good  faith  the  pledges  I 
gave  to  the  country,  to  my  supporters,  and  to 
this  House,  it  is  not  from  that  honorable  gen- 
tleman at  all  events  that  any  charge  against 
a;e  should  come.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon- 
orable gentleman  says  that  the  proposal  for  a 
union  of  all  the  colonics  has  failed.  I  totally 
den/  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am  not  prepared 
to  admit — 1  do  not  believe — that  the  repre- 
sentatives of  New  Brunswick,  when  the  sub- 
ject is  f  iir  y  discussed  in  Pail'aiiient,  and  the 
proposition  has  been  presented  in  all  its  lights, 
will  reject  it.  When  they  do  so,  it  will  be 
time  enough  for  the  honorable  gentleman  to 
assert  that  tlie  scheme  has  failed.  Strange 
indeed  would  it  have  been  had  so  laige  a 
scheme  sutfeicd  no  check  in  its  progress — but 
stranger  still  would  it  be  were  the  promoters 
of  the  measure  to  abandon  it  from  such  a 
check  as  this.  (^Cheers.)  The  honorable 
member  for  Chateauguay  is  mistaken  also 
when  he  asserts  that  the  majority  of  the 
members  of  the  Nova  Scotia  Legislature  are 
against  this  measure  of  Confederation. 
"Hon.  iAItt.  HOLTON— 1  believe  so. 

Hon.  Mh.  BiluWN— Having  heard  that 

the    honorable    member   for    llochelaga   had 

made  such  a  statement  to  this  House — 

Hon.  Mr.  DOUION— On  the  best  authority. 

Mr.   a.   xMACKENZlE— Give    us    your 

authority. 


Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  think  it  better  not 
to  ask  for  the  ho.iorabie  gentleman's  authjrity, 
or  to  use  any  names  in  such  a  matter  as  this. 
But  I  wish  to  say  that  the  momi^.nt  I  heard 
that  the  statement  had  been  made,  1  tele- 
graphed to  a  friend  in  the  Nova  Scotia  Lc- 
•jislature,  and  received  an  answer  entirely 
contradicting  the  statement  which  had  been 
made. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Why  then  don't 
they  go  on  with  the  question  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  apprehend  it  is 
for  them  to  decide  when  they  shall  go  on — 
what  is  the  right  moment  for  them  to  go  on — 
and  not  for  the  honorable  member  for  Cha- 
te  luguay,  who  is  entirely  opposed  to  this 
measure. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— There  is  strong 
presumptive  evidence  in  favor  of  my  authority 
against  yours. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— That  I  must  leave 
to  the  House  to  judge.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Chateauguay  says  the  motion  made  by 
the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West  docs  not  meet 
the  point  at  which  it  is  aimed,  namely,  to  bring 
this  debate  to  a  speedy  conclusion.  He  says 
it  may  cut  off  amendments,  but  that  it  will 
not  stop  debate.  But  that  is  an  entire  mis- 
take. ,lt  is  the  only  mode  by  wl  ich  the  debate 
can  speedily  be  b.ought  to  an  end. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Honorable  gentle- 
men opposite  want  to  stop  the  debate,  besides 
stopping  the  amendments.  That  is  the  object. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— If  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  had  waited  till  he  had 
heard  me  out,  he  would  have  found  I  had  no 
such  meaning.  With  regard  to  the  main 
proposition,  honorable  gentlemen  may  speak 
as  long  as  they  like.  So  long  as  the  House 
does  not  come  to  the  conclusion  that  the  time 
has  arrived  lor  getting  a  vote  upon  that,  they 
can  talk. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Thank  youl 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — Of  course,  no  one 
can  prevent  them.  And,  so  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  can  assure  the  honorable  member 
lor  Cornwall  that  I  have  no  desire  to  prevent 
him  or  any  one  else  from  being  heard  to  the 
fullest  extent  they  desire.  But,  since  the 
beginning  of  this  debate,  we  have  constantly 
seen  incidental  questions  raised  and  the 
same  members  getting  up  night  alter  night  to 
make  long  speeches  upon  them  and  kill  time, 
to  a  degree  never  witnessed  before,  1  venture 
to  iisscrt,  in  this  or  iu  any  other  legislative 
body.  And  it  is  evident  that  if  this  motion 
were  not  put,  we  should  have  these  debates 
ccntinued  on  a  variety  of  ameudments,  and 


711 


that  this  discussion  would  be  kept  up  to  an 
extent  which  wjuld  utterly  frustrate  the 
prompt  accomplishment  of  those  great  pur- 
poses for  which  this  Government  was  formed. 
(^Hear,  hear) 

Hon.  Mr.  EVANTUREL— As  one  of  the 
friends  of  the  present  Administration,  I  must 
say  that  I  am  surprised  by  the  conduct  of  the 
Government  and  the  extreme  position  in  which 
they  choose  to  place  themselves.    For  my  part, 
I  am  in  favour  of  the  principle  of  Confedera- 
tion, and  one  of  those  who  maintain  that  by 
means  of  that  priuciple  the  rights  and  liber- 
ties of  each  of  the  contracting  ptirties  may  be 
preserved;  but,  on   the  other  hand,  I   am  of 
opinion,  and  I  do  not  disguise  it  from  myself, 
that  it  may  be  so  applied  as  to  endanger  and 
even  destroy,   or   nearly  so,  the  rights   and 
privileges  of  a  state  which  is  a  party  to  this 
Confederation.  Everything,  therefore,  depends 
on  the  conditions  of  the  contract.     As  a  friend 
of  the  Administration  I  can  understand,  as 
well  as  any  one,  that  any  Confederation  and 
particularly  such  a  one  as  this  which  is  now 
laid  before  us,  can  only  be  brought  about  by 
means  of  a  compromise ;  and,  on  this  account, 
Mr.  SPEAKEa — and  it  is  probably  needless  to 
proclaim   it  here — I  am    reauy  and  disposed 
to  go  to  as  great  a  length  as  it  is  possible  for 
any  man  to  go.     I  am  also  one  of  those  who, 
wnen  we  are  called  upon  to  unite,  under  the 
88gis   of  a  strong  government,    the  different 
provinces  of    British   North   America,     and 
when  I  see  that  the  general  interest  calls  for 
such  a  union,  will  give  my  cordial  support  to 
all  who  seek  to  establish  such  a  government. 
I  shall  always  ba  prepared  to  meet  them  half- 
way; but  when  the  question  assumes  a  differ- 
ent shape,  as  it  now  does,   and  when,  in  con- 
sequence of  the   events    announced    to   this 
House  yesterday,  the  Constitution  proposed  to 
xis  seems  to  concern  none  but  the  provinces  of 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  I  say,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, that  the  compromise  between  the  differ- 
ent provinces  no  longer  existing,  we  are  uo 
longer  called  upou  to  be  so  generous.     I  say 
that  if  we  uduiit  that  New  Brunswick,  by  its 
recent  repudiation,  and  Nova  Scotia  and  Prince 
Edward  island  are  no  longer  parties  to  the 
contracts    agreed  on   between  the  provinces, 
and    we     have    now   to    ask  of  England    to 
modify   the  Constitution  only  in  relation  to 
the   two  Cauadas,  I   say  that  the  conditions 
are  no  loager  tlie  same  as  taey  concern  us — 
(^hear,  iiear; — and  thit  I  am  on  that  account 
macii  less  disposed  to  allow  the  Goveraaient 
to  proceed  to  present  in  England,  us  lue  basis 
of  our  faiare  Coa^bitaUoa,   tae   reiolatioas 


which  we  have  been  compelled  to  accept  in 
very   unfavorable   circumstances.     I   do  not 
hesitate  in  saying  that  the  poi^ition  assumed 
by  the  Government  is  a  very  dang'^rou';  one 
for  themselves,  and  for  those  who  would  glad- 
ly assist  them  to  pass  a  good  scheme  of  Coa- 
fedcjration.     If  1  understand  aright,  the  in- 
tention of   the   Government,  in  moving  the 
previous  question,  is  to  place  their  friends  in 
the   awkward  position  of  not  being  able  to 
move  any  modification  of  the  plan.     In  our 
altered  position  we  are  going,  therefore,   to 
say  to  England  that  we  were  obliged  to  sub- 
mit to  such  and  such  concessions  in  order  to 
come  to  an   understanding  ;    that  ihe  other 
provinces  have   backed  out  of  the  bargain, 
notwithstanding  these  onerous  concessions  and 
the   compromise   which  we  were  obliged  to 
make,  and  which  have  not  been  accepted  by 
the  other  parties ;  and  that,  in  the  face  of  all 
this,  we  come  to  pray   that  our  Constitution 
may  be  altered  so   as  to   accord  with  those 
very  same  onerous  conditions  which  we  had 
accepted  at  the  Quebec  Conference.      Why 
tie  us  down  so  strictly  now?     Why  should 
we  not  avail  ourselves  of  the  retrogression  of 
the   provinces   to    make    alterations    in    the 
scheme  which  will  be  less  onerous  for  us  ?     I 
think  it  my  duty  to  declare  that  the  Govern- 
ment, in  acting  as  they  have  done,  place  their 
friends  in  a  very  awkward  position.     For  my 
part,  Mr.  SPEAKER,  I  am  strongly  in  favor 
of  Confederation,  and  am  ready  to  support  the 
Government  in  their  efforts  to    release   the 
chariot   of   the   state  from   the   posiiion  in 
which  it  now  lies ;  but  I  wish,  on   the  other 
hand — and  I  think  it  is  but  bare  justice  to  say 
it — I  wish  that  Ministers  should  place  us  in 
such  a  position  before  the  country,  that  I  and 
all  others   may  be  able  to  say    that  we  havo 
done  our  best  to  improve  the  situation.  This  is 
why  I  so  deeply  regret  that  the  Government 
have  thought  tit  to  take  their  present  arbitrary 
attitude.  (^Hear,  hear.)     I  acknowledge,  with 
the  Administration,  that    time    is  precious  j 
but  we  ought  not,  in  avoiding  one  danger,  to 
risk   falling    into    another.      I    acknowledge 
also   that  the    course  of  events   which    has 
taken   place  within  a  few  days  gives  reason 
to   apprehend   that  British  rule  in   the  pro- 
vinces of  British  North  America  may  cease 
altogether  in  a  few  years.     I  admit  all  these 
dangers,    Mr.    Speaker;   but   on  the   other 
hand  I  do  not  conceal  from  myself  that  the 
extreme  position  in  which  we  are  placed  does 
not  tend  to  diminish  them.  Ou  the  contrary,  I 
am  greatly  afraid  that  if  public  opinion   be 
too  deeply  stirred  by  the  impositioa  of  a  new 


712 


Constitution,  without  liberty  on  our  part  to 
amcud  it,  the  danger  will  be  increased  rather 
than  diniinished.  So  far,  Lower  Canada  has 
sufficiently  showed,  by  the  voice  of  her  leaders, 
that  she  is  prepared  to  make  all  possible  con- 
cessions ;  but  after  that,  would  it  be  prudent 
to  render  her  dissatisfied  by  denying  us  the 
right  of  modifying  the  proposed  plan  in  some 
degree.  We  have  been  obliged,  in  order  to 
satisfy  the  public  mind,  to  allege,  and  truly, 
that  the  Ministry  had  been  compelled  to  make 
some  concessions  to  the  provinces  for  the  general 
satisfaction;  but  now  that  the  contracting 
parties  to  the  plan  of  Confederation  retreat 
from  their  engagements,  after  having  imposed 
on  us  compromises  and  exacted  concessions, 
why  should  we,  at  a  critical  time  like  the 
present,  proceed  to  submit  our  position  to  the 
Imperial  Parliament,  exactly  as  if  the  Pro- 
vinces had  been  true  to  their  pledges  ?  I  am 
of  opinion,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  this  is  asking 
too  much  of  us,  and  that  as  the  Lower  pro- 
vinces arc  evidently  no  longer  in  the  mind  to 
be  united  with  us,  we  French-Canadians  should 
be  greatly  in  the  wrong  if  we  presented  our 
case  with  the  same  conditions  as  we  were  led 
to  accept,  in  compliance  with  the  require- 
ments of  the  sister  colonies.  I  think  that 
both  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  are  now 
entitled  to  present  themselves  much  more 
favorably  before  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment, and  that  they  may  say — "  These  are 
concessions  which  we  had  made,  it  is  true,  for 
the  sake  of  the  common  good ;  but  the  Mari- 
time Provinces  have  now  gone  back  from  their 
engagements,  and  their  present  desire  is 
either  to  remain  independent  or  to  enter  the 
American  Republic !  We  have  done  our  duty, 
and  we  are  still  ready  to  remain  faithful 
to  our  engagements,  which  we  had  entered 
into  with  the  contracting  parties  ;  but  as  they 
gave  us  up,  and  the  concessions  which  we 
made  are  not  now  held  by  them  to  be  suffi- 
cient, we  are  come  to  plead  our  own  cause 
before  you,  and  to  tell  you  that  the  interests 
of  Lower  Canada  now  require  better  guaran- 
tees than  we  had  been  obliged  to  accept  from 
the  Maritime  Provinces,  for  the  sake  of  com- 
ing to  an  amicable  conclusion.  We  now  come 
to  request  that  England  will  be  more  favour- 
able to  us,  and  relieve  us  from  our  difficulties 
by  making  constitutional  changes  less  disad- 
vantageous to  us."  In  such  a  case,  I  believe 
that  the  Imperial  Government  would  not 
venture  to  impose  a  Constitution  on  us  with- 
out our  consent,  but  would  be  f  ivourable  to 
our  wishes.  Tliat  the  French-Canadians  are 
all  loyal  subjecta  of  Her  Britannic  Majesty, 


no  one  will  doubt ;  but  it  would  be  an  act  of 
folly  on  the  part  of  English  statesmen  to 
impose  on  them  a  Constitution  which  they 
would  reject  or  very  strongly  resist.  I  say 
this  out  of  a  feeling  of  loyalty,  for  I  know 
that  there  are  statesmen  in  England  who 
understand  that  the  loyalty  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canadians  most  depend  on  their  being 
satisfied  with  their  new  Constitution.  How 
would  it  benefit  England  to  give  us  a  Con- 
stitution which  might  suit  her,  as  tending  to 
perpetuate  her  rule  in  Lower  Canada,  but 
which  would  not  be  at  the  same  time  satis- 
factory to  the  majority  in  both  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  ?  A  spirit  of  discontent 
would  be  soon  aroused  which  would  cool  our 
zeal  in  defending  our  country.  This  is  a 
self-evident  truth,  intelligible  to  all  the  world. 
I  trust,  therefore,  Mr,  Speaker,  that  if  the 
measure  of  Confederation  is  passed,  it  will 
not  be  forced  upon  us,  without  the  present 
House  having  an  opportunity  of  weighing 
its  merits,  and  amending  it.  I  am  pre- 
pared, I  confess,  to  go  as  far  as  any  man, 
and  to  make  the  greatest  concessions,  to  extri- 
cate the  country  from  its  difficulties,  and 
come  to  a  good  underst/i.nding,  that  we  may 
make  sure  of  a  Confederation  with  the  immense 
advantages  which  it  might  bring  with  it ;  but 
I  am  bound  to  confess,  when  I  am  told,  in  . 
presence  of  the  events  which  have  just  passed, 
that  we  must  submit  to  the  conditions  imposed 
on  us  by  the  contracting  parties,  who  have, 
so  soon  after  making  it,  refused  to  ratify  it — I 
say  that  I  think  it  wrong  to  tie  down  Lower 
Canada  absolutely  to  the  first  conditions.  I 
wish  the  extreme  position  which  the  Govern- 
ment have  taken  up  in  the  face  of  the  country 
may  be  productive  of  the  greatest  amount  of 
good  to  it ;  but,  for  my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  T 
cannot  help  thinking  and  confessing  that  I 
have  very  strong  fears  on  that  subject.  It 
seems  to  me  that  in  the  present  circumstances, 
the  Government  ought  to  have  granted  the 
fullest  opportunity,  both  to  Upper  and  to 
Lower  Canada,  to  make  such  suggestions  as 
they  might  think  fit,  and  not  to  insist  on  the 
adoption  of  the  scheme  in  its  present  form. 
By  such  a  proceeding  they  would  have  afforded 
members  who  have  amenduients  to  move  a 
fair  and  constitutional  way  of  setting  them- 
selves right  in  tlie  opinion  of  their  fellow- 
countrymen,  by  recording  them  at  least  on  the 
Journals  of  the  House.  The  position  in  which 
we  are  placed  is  tantamount  in  its  effects  to 
the  cry  of  "  all  or  nothing."  But,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  have  always  been  averse  to  such  a 
system ;    and    if  we   look  back  to  our   past 


713 


history,  we  shall  find  that  it  has  never  pro- 
duced   aught     but     lamentable     dissension. 
(Hear,  hear.)     What  is  the  present  cry  of 
the  Opposition  as  regards  the  scheme  of  Con- 
federation ?     It  is  this  :  yoa  refuse  an  appeal 
to  the  people ;  you  most  unjustly  hurry  on 
the  debate ;  you  deny   us  all  opportunity  of 
moviug  amendments  to  the  plan,  or  recording 
them  on  the  journals  of  the  House  ;  and  you 
are  ben  t  on  imposing  on  us,  without  our  consent, 
a  Constitution  no  detail  of  which  is  made  known 
to  us,  and  of  the  general  tenor  of  which  our 
knowledge  is  also  very  imperfect.     Now,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  beg  to  ask  Ministers  whether  it 
would  not  be  infinitely  better  for  them  to  quiet 
all  these  apprehensions,  and  silence  all  com- 
plaints?    Why    should   they   hurry    on    the 
debate,  I  do  not  say  unconstitutionally,  but  I 
do   say  with   dangerous  precipitancy  ?  Why 
should  they  bar  the  moving  of  any  amend- 
ment  to   the  echeme,    particularly    as  there 
is  nothing  pressing  in  the  occasion,  and  as  the 
aspect  of  the  question  is  in  many  respects  al- 
tered from  what  it  was  previous  to  these  late 
events  ?     I  shall  probably   be  told  that  I  am 
wrong  in  saying  there  is  nothing  pretssing  in 
the  occasion ;  that,  on    the  contrary,   events 
render  the  immediate  passing  of  the  measure 
absolutely  necessary  ;  that  the  defence  of  our 
frontier  is  a  question  which  must  be  settled  at 
once — that  there  is  not  a  moment  to  be  lost. 
Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  acknowledge,  for  my 
part,  that  if  I  vote  in  favor  of  the  scheme  of 
Confederation,  it  is  not  out  of  a  feeling  of  the 
necessity  of  setting  about   our   defence ;  for 
hitherto  I  have  never  had  a  thought  that  the 
Confederation  of  the  provinces   aiiorded  any 
better  means  of  defending  the  frontier  than 
that  which  we  have  at  present — (hear,  hear) — 
inasmuch  as  we  have  already  all  opportunity 
of  combined  action  to  the  fullest  extent  under 
the  protecting  arm  of  England  ;  but  this  seems 
not  to  have  entered  the  minds  of  the  authors 
of  the  scheme.     But  I  go  further  than  this, 
and  assert  that  the  discussion  which  is  daily 
going  on  on  the  subject  of  the  proposed  consti- 
tutioaal  changes  is  agitating  the  public  mind 
very  strongly.     As  at  a  former  epoch  of  our 
history,  such  changes  necessarily  tend  to  dis- 
turb the  minds  of  the  many ;  and  this  very 
natural  agitation  is  attended  with  its  dangers, 
and  afibrds  another  proof  that  constitutions  are 
not  the  work  of  a  day — that  time,  and  even  a 
great  deal  of  time,  is  necessary  to  settle  the 
foundation  of  the   social    and   constitutional 
edifice  of  the  best  disposed  of  the  nations. 
The  present  Constitution  of  Great  Britain  is  a 
proof  of  this.  That  is  certainly  well  established, 

n 


but  it  has  taken  ages  to  bring  it  to  what  it  now 
is.  I  say,  then,  that  we  should  not  be  in  too 
great  a  hurry,  so  as  to  raise  discontent  among 
the  people,  but  that  we  ought  to  proceed  with 
the  more  care  and  deliberation  now  that,  as  the 
Mini-ters  themselves  acknowledi!;e,  we  are  ii 
imminent  danger  of  war.  If  we  are  so  liable 
to  have  war,  I  say  that  we  are  not  in  the 
best  condition  to  undergo  a  sudden  change  of 
our  Constitution,  and  that  far  from  placing 
ourselves  in  a  good  attitude  of  d. fence  to  meet 
the  imminent  danger,  we  are  perhaps  weaken- 
ing our  position,  by  acting  too  strongly  or 
prematurely  on  public  opinion.  I  say  then 
again,  that  those  who  would  force  our  repre- 
sentatives to  accept  the  measure  without 
amendments,  for  the  bare  reason  that  we  must 
prepare  to  defenu  ourselves  in  arms  without 
loss  of  time,  are  acting  without  justifiable  or 
sufficient  reason.  I  regret  deeply  that  the 
previous  question  has  been  moved,  so  as  to 
reduce  the  friends  of  the  Government  to  the 
necessity  of  voting  on  the  measure  before  us 
without  being  able  to  move  any  amendment, 
and  that  in  the  face  of  a  total  change  of  cir- 
cumstances I  pray  for  the  forgiveness  of 
the  House  for  having  spoken  on  the  subject, 
but  I  considered  it  a  duty  to  protest  at  once 
against  the  proceeding  of  the  Government 
widch  I  had  not  foreseen.  I  shall  vote  there- 
fore against  the  motion  before  us,  because  I 
am  in  favor  of  amending  the  scheme  of  the 
Constitution,  laying  on  the  Government  the 
whole  responsibility  for  their  conduct  if  they 
persist  in  denying  us  au  opportunity  of  making- 
some  modifications  in  the  present  plan  of 
Confederation. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C  ARTIER— I  am  glad 
that  the  hon.  member  for  the  county  of 
Quebec  has,  with  his  customary  candor, 
communicated  to  us  his  apprehensions.  I 
have  listened  to  him  with  great  attention, 
and  I  am  certain  that  there  is  no  difi"erence 
between  his  views  and  ours.  We  are  per- 
fectly agreed.  (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
I  knew  perfectly  well,  Mr.  Speaker,  before 
I  rose  to  give  explanations  to  the  hon. 
member  for  the  county  ot  Quebec  and  to 
the  House,  that  the  few  words  I  have  just 
uttered  would  excite  the  laughter  of  the 
Opposition ;  for  the  moment  these  hon. 
gentlemen  see  a  member  who  is  usually  a 
supporter  of  the  Government,  rise  in  this 
House  and  speak  with  some  degree  of  anima- 
tion on  any  measure  of  the  Government, 
they  are  ready  to  conclude,  Jrom  his 
animation,  that  the  hon.  member  is  opposed 
to  the  measure.     I  say  again,  Mr.  Speaker, 


714 


the  Government  is,  in  the  present  case, 
perfectly  of  the  same  mind  as  the  hon. 
member  for  the  county  of  Quebec.  If  they 
now  request  that  the  House  would  hasten 
their  decision  on  the  grand  question  of  a 
Confederation  of  all  the  British  Provinces 
of  this  continent  (not  of  the  two  Canadas, 
as  the  hon.  member  lor  the  county  of  Quebec 
terms  it),  it  is  because  they  are  desirous,  as 
the  Hon.  Attorney  General  for  Upper 
Canada  observed  yesterday,  to  despatch 
delegates  to .  England,  to  lay  before  the 
Imperial  Parliament  the  resolutions  adopted 
at  the  Conference.  The  Government  wish 
to  giro  effect  to  the  compromise  entered  into 
between  the  Ivjaritime  Provinces  and  Canada, 
to  enable  the  Imperial  Government  to  offer 
their  coupsel  to  the  governments  of  the 
provinces,  who  have  backed  out  from 
their  agreement,  and  show  them  that  the 
document  to  which  they  would  have  their 
sanction  is  a  compromise.  They  would 
prove  to  Great  Britain  that  if  one  of  the 
Maritime  Provinces,  or  all  of  them,  refuse 
to  carry  out  the  terms  of  the  compromise 
after  their  solemn  engagement  with  the 
Canadian  Government  to  observe  it — if,  in 
short,  they  have  failed  to  fulfil  the  terms  of 
the  treaty — Canada  has  been  true  to  them, 
and  desires  its  fulfilment.  The  Constitution 
prayed  for  is  not  a  Constitution  for  the  two 
Canadas  only,  as  the  hon.  member  for 
Chateauguay  said  it  was,  putting  a  false 
construction  on  the  explanations  of  my  hon. 
colleague  the  Attorney  General  for  Upper 
Canada,  but,  on  the  contrary,  a  Loustitution 
for  all  British  North  America.  (Hear, 
hear.)  If  the  Government  now  press  the 
House  for  a  decision,  it  is  not  to  enable 
them  to  go  to  England  and  ask  for  a  Con- 
stitution tor  the  Canadas,  under  a  pretext  that 
the  other  contracting  provinces  have  failed 
to  fulfil  the  treaty  into  which  they  had  entered. 
By  no  means,  Mr.  Speaker.  I  have  always 
liad  the  interests  of  Lower  Canada  at  heart, 
and  have  guar  ied  them  more  sedulously  than 
the  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga  and  his 
partisans  have  ever  done. 

A  MEMBER— A  proof  of  that  is  your 
sending  the  seat  of  government  to  Ottawa  ! 

Hon.  Atty  Gen.  CAKTIER— Well, 
Mr.  Speaker,  I  do  not  hesitate  to  maintain 
that  that  question  of  the  seat  of  government 
was  decided  favorably  for  Lower  Canada.  I 
have  always  maintained  this,  and  I  will 
maintain  it  always  and  against  all  comers. 
I  DOW  come  to  the  observations  of  the  hon. 
member  for  the  county  of  Quebec.     This  is 


what  the  Government  propose  to  do:  We 
shall  represent  to  the  Imperial  Government 
that  Canada  consented  lo  compromises  and 
sacrifices,  and  that  the  Lower  Provinces 
failed  in  ihe  fulfilment  of  their  part  of  the 
treaty  at  the  last  moment.  We  shall  entreat 
the  Imperial  Government  to  offer  their  ad- 
vice to  the  governments  of  those  provinces, 
and  we  entertain  a  hope  that  the  influence 
which  England  necessarily  exercises  over 
those  colonies  will  have  the  effect  of  inducing 
them  to  reflect  on  their  proceeding  with 
reference  to  us.  I  pra^  the  honorable 
member  for  the  c.unty  of  Quebec  to  lay 
aside  his  fears.  I  assure  him  that  not  a 
single  member  of  the  Government  has  the 
slightest  intention  of  asking  Great  Biitain 
to  legislate  on  the  Address  which  we  are  to 
present,  and  to  pass  a  Constitution  for  the 
two  Canadas.  Our  whole  intention  is  to  lay 
before  the  Government  of  the  3Iother  Coun- 
try our  position,  as  it  now  is,  in  consequence 
of  the  breaking  of  the  treaty  by  the 
Maritime  Provinces,  in  order  that  they 
may  bring  some  pressure  to  bear  on 
them  to  bring  about  the  Federal  union 
which  was  designed.  Even  though  the 
legislatures  of  those  provinces  should  rue 
the  part  they  took  in  the  plan  of  Con- 
federation, the  adoption  of  it  would  be 
only  a  question  of  time;  for  probably  within 
twelve  months  they  will  amend  their  deci- 
fcion  and  accept  the  comproiaise.  ^Vc  say 
that  as  far  as  we  are  concerned,  we  can  do 
neither  more  nor  less  than  carry  out  the 
compromise  ;  that  we  arc  desirous  of  acquit- 
ting ourselves  of  the  duty  we  owe  to  the 
Imperial  Government,  as  they  thought  fit  to 
sanction  it  in  the  despatch  laid  before  this 
House,  as  well  as  by  the  honorable  mention 
made  of  it  in  Her  Most  Gracious  Majesty's 
Speech  from  tbe  Throne.  It  is  of  conse- 
quence, I  say,  that  we  should  show  the 
imperial  Government  that  Canada,  which 
contains  more  than  three-louiths  of  tlic 
population  of  all  the  provinces  on  this  con- 
tinent, has  not  failed  to  fulfil  her  part  in 
the  compromise,  but  that  the  Maritime 
Provinces  it  is  which  have  broken  their 
sworn  engagement,  aud  that  if  the  compro- 
mise is  not  to  be  carried  into  effect,  English 
supremacy  over  the  American  colonies  may 
at  no  distant  day  be  endangered.  We  trust 
that  all  these  considerations  may  have  a 
salutary  effect,  that  they  will  dissipate  the 
unfounded  apitrehensioiis  of  the  .Maritime 
I'rovinces,  and  that  hereafter  the  Constitu- 
tion,  based  on   the  compromise  wliich   wo 


715 


shall  submit  to  the  Imperial  Grovernment, 
will  bear  sway  over  the  several  English  pro- 
vinces on  this  continent,  united  in  one  great 
Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  can  assure 
the  hon.  member  for  the  county  of  Quebec, 
therefore,  that  the  only  purpose  of  the  Grov- 
ernment of  which  I  am  a  member,  in  urging 
forward  the  adopliou  of  the  scheme  submit- 
ted to  the  House,  is  to  despatch  it  to  England 
in  order  that  the  Imperial  Parliament  may 
merely  sanction  the  letter  of  the  measure. 
The  Grovernment  never  had  a  thous-ht  of 
taking  the  House  and  the  people  by  surprise. 
If  we  were  to  go  to  England  and  pray  for  a 
Constitution  different  from  that  which  is 
mentioned  in  the  Address,  we  should  be 
branded  with  disgrace,  and  deservedly  so, 
and  should  render  ourselves  unworthy  of  the 
position  which  we  now  fill.  These  reasons 
are  sufficient,  I  think,  to  shew  that  there  is 
not  so  much  difference  between  the  opinion 
of  the  Grovernment  and  that  of  the  hun. 
member  for  the  county  of  Quebec,  as  that 
hon.  gentleman  supposes.  We  are  agreed 
on  the  point  to  which  he  takes  exception ; 
and  as  he  has  declared  that  he  would  vote  in 
favor  of  the  new  Constitution  i?  the  Maritime 
Provinces  continued  to  be  parties  to  it,  I 
have  reason  to  trust  that  he  will  do  so,  as  t!ie 
Government  will  be  in  no  way  bound  to  abide 
by  that  Constitution,  unless  the  other  con- 
tracting parties  shall  accept  it. 

Mr.  POWELL — I  must  express  my  deep 
regret,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  leader  of 
the  House  should  have  been  induced  to 
submit  to  the  House  a  motion  of  the 
character  of  that  which  you  hold  in  your 
hands.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  distinctly  avow 
myself  a  friend  of  the  Administration,  and 
as  one  anxious  to  assist  them  in  carrying  out 
the  important  scheme  they  have  undertaken; 
and  while  according  to  them  the  fullest 
confidence,  I  must  express  my  regret  that 
their  course  in  relation  to  this  question,  in 
this  House,  has  certainly  not  been  what  I 
would  have  advised  or  been  inclined  to 
support.  They  selected  their  own  mode,  in 
the  first  plac3,  as  regards  the  manner  in 
which  this  debate  should  be  conducted,  and 
from  that  mode  they  have  departed.  I  did 
feel  that  when,  as  between  the  Opposition 
and  the  Government,  there  was  something 
in  the  nature  of  a  compact,  that  compact 
should  be  carried  out.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
think  the  Opposition  has  its  rights  and 
privileges,  and  is  especially  entitled  to  have 
these  respected  by  the  Government,  who  have 


so  powerful  a  majority  at  their  back.  (Elear, 
hear.)  When  the  Government  departed 
from  the  understanding  originally  come  to, 
as  to  the  way  in  which  the  debate  should  be 
conducted,  I  believed  that  that  departure 
was  in  the  interests  of  the  House  and  in  the 
interests  of  the  public.  I  do  not  hesitate 
to  say  it  had  my  approbation,  as  far  as  my 
individual  opinion  was  concerned.  But, 
notwithstanding  that  it  had  my  approbation, 
as  tending  to  the  convenience  of  the  House 
and  the  advantage  of  the  public,  I  did  not 
feel  that  the  Government  were  justified,  so 
long  as  the  Opposition  were  dissenting 
parties,  in  departing  from  the  original 
understanding.  That  was  my  first  ground 
of  objection ;  and  I  think,  in  the  present 
instance,  the  Government  are  taking  a  still 
more  extraordinary  course.  I  do  not  know 
whether  a  case  can  be  found  in  the  records 
of  our  own  House,  or  of  the  English  House 
of  Commons,  where  the  leader  of  the  House 
has  availed  himself  of  technical  rules  to 
prevent  a  question  being  fairly  presented. 

Hox\.  Mr.  DORION— To  move  the  pre- 
vious question  to  his  own  motion  ! 

Mr.  POWELL— I  do  not  know  if  such  a 
thing  is  usual,  or  if  a  precedent  can  be  cited 
for  it.  All  I  can  say  is,  that  if  a  precedent 
can  bo  cited,  T  regret  extremely  that  such  a 
course  should  be  adopted  on  the  present 
occasion.       We    are    here    en^'a^'ed    in    the 

O     O 

discussion  of  a  great  constitutional  question, 
with  regard  to  which  the  Administration 
have  submitted  to  us  the  resolutions  of  the 
Conference — I  do  not  say  of  self-constituted 
delegates,  or  that  they  acted  without  the 
sanction  of  the  people  —  but  certainly 
they  have  taken  upon  themselves  a  great 
responsibility,  which  I  readily  admit  they 
have  well  fulfilled,  and  I  am  quite  prepared 
to  endorse  their  course,  in  the  framing  of 
this  scheme,  from  beginning  to  end.  They 
first  of  all  adopt  those  resolutions  at  the 
Conference,  and  they  then  come  down  to 
this  House  and  say  :  ''  Accept  them  in  their 
entirety,  without  amendment,  without  vari- 
ation, or  the  scheme  falls  to  the  ground." 
That  may  be  all  very  well.  It  may  be  all 
very  well  to  deny  the  right  of  an  appeal  to 
to  the  people.  It  may  be  all  very  well  for 
us  as  a  Legislature  to  arrogate  to  ourselves 
the  right  to  change  our  whole  constitutional 
system.  That  may  be  all  very  well.  JJut, 
by  this  motion  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gene- 
ral West,  they  stop  any  gentlemen  who 
dissent  from  their  views  from  putting  their 


716 


opinions  on  record,  (Hear,  bear.)  I  think 
that  is  going  a  little  too  far,  and  it  is  as  a 
friend  of  the  Administration  that  I  express 
that  opinion. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD-We 
do  not  require  vour  advice. 

Mu.  PO^yi:LL— The  hon.  gentleman 
may  accept  it  or  not,  as  he  pleases. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I  do 
not  accepo  it. 

Mr.  POWELL—Theu  he  may  take  the 
other  alternative.  I  think  the  House  and 
the  country  have  expended  an  enormous 
degree  of  consideratioa  to  this  Government, 
but  I  tell  the  bou.  gentlemen  that  if  they 
continue  the  course  they  are  now  pursuing, 
a  reaction  will  take  phice  in  the  House  and 
the  country.  (Hoai",  hear.)  I  hope  that 
ihu  House  is  not  to  drop  down  into  being 
the  mere  echo  of  the  Executive — so  that  we 
shall  not  have  opinions  of  our  own  at  all,  or 
be  allowed  to  offer  any  advice  whatever  to 
the  E.^ecutive.  If  the  hon.  gentleman 
accepts  these  remarks  in  a  hostile  spirit,  he 
may  do  S).  All  I  can  say  is  that  I  do  not 
mean  them  to  be  so  received.  But  I  con- 
sider the  course  taken  by  the  Government 
this  afternoon  is  a  most  extraordinary  one. 
The  reason  a&signed  is,  that  hon.  gentlemen 
opposite  have  been  offering  a  factious  oppo- 
sition, and  that  they  intend  to  continue  it 
by  moving  motion  after  motion.  But  even 
it  they  do,  I  ask,  can  that  involve  above  a 
couplo  of  weeks  more  of  discussion  ?  And 
I  say  that  it  is  not  for  the  credit  or  the 
character  of  the  Government,  that  to  shorten 
the  discussion  they  should  take  such  a 
course  as  this.  I  believe  they  have  under- 
taken the  great  work  they  have  in  hand  in 
a  most  patriotic  spirit.  I  believe  that  my 
hon.  friend — though  he  rejects  my  advice — 
is  animated  in  the  course  he  is  taking  by  a 
p:rely  patriotic  spirit.  But, while  1  believe 
that,  1  think  he  ought  to  accord  to  me  the 
right  of  expressing  my  opinion  as  to  the 
mode  in  wliich  this  debate  should  be  con- 
ducted. I  do  not  know  whether  the  friends 
of  the  Atiministration  are  to  be  gagged  as 
well  as  its  opponents — (laughter) — whether 
it  is  intended  that  we  shall  all  be  prevented 
from  ex  pressing  our  views.  Jiut  I  do  trust  the 
leader  of  the  Government  will  withdraw  this 
motion — (hear,  heai) —  which  is  unworthy 
oi'  him,  when  he  has  in  hand  this  grand  and 
magnificent  project.  He  has  all  the  advan- 
tages he  Can  wi.sh  on  his  side,  and  I  would 
advise  him  to  avail  himself  of  those  advan- 
tages, and  not  to  give — by  pursuing  a  course 


that  is  certainly  unusual,  extraordinary,  and 
unprecedented — the  enemies  of  this  great 
scheme  the  opportunity  of  saving  that  it  was 
forced  down  the  throats  of  this  Legislature 
and  of  the  people  of  this  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  believe  that  he  has  the  people  at 
his  back — that  they  endorse  his  scheme — 
that  they  are  fully  with  him — and  that  the 
large  majority  of  this  House  truly  represent 
the  feelings  and  wishes  of  the  people  in 
endorsing  the  scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
say,  therefore,  that  he  can  well  afford  to  be 
magnanimous  Jind  liberal  to  the  Opposition — 
who  are  feeble  in  numbers,  though  energetic 
in  the  stand  they  take — and  that  he  can  carry 
out  this  scheme  without  having  to  call  to  his 
aid  the  technical  rules  of  the  House.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  J.  H.  CAMERON— I  desire  to 
inquire  whether  the  motion  for  the  "  previous 
question"  made  by  the  Government,  if  carried, 
will  throw  any  impediment  in  the  way  of  the 
resolution  of  which  I  have  given  notice  ?  Of 
course  I  know  that  it  can  be  moved;  but  if  a 
discussion  arises  upon  it,  I  am  afraid  we 
shall  not  reach  a  vote  upon  it  until  the  session 
is  closed.  I  hope  the  word  of  promise  is  not 
to  be  kept  to  the  ear  and  broken  to  the  hope. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I  have 
no  desire  to  choke  oft'  the  honorable  gentleman's 
resolution  in  any  way.  He  will  have  an 
opportunity  of  moving  and  pressing  his  motion 
after  the  resolutions  have  been  adopted. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— But  it  is 
quite  clear  that  the  moving  of  the  previous 
question  shuts  off  all  amendments. 

Hon.  J.  H.  CAMERON— My  motion  is 
not  proposed  as  an  amendment.  1  propose  to 
move  it  after  a  decision  has  been  come  to  on 
the  question  now  before  the  House.  It  is  for 
the  purpose  of  having  an  expression  of  the 
people's  will  upon  the  Address,  before  it  is 
sent  to  the  Imperial  authorities. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Well,  that 
is  an  amendment,  but  I  will  not  argue  the 
point  just  now. 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  do  not  know 
that  I  can  claim,  like  my  houorablo  friend 
from  Carleton  (iMr.  Powell),  to  be  a  friend 
of  the  Government,  and  so  any  advice  that 
I  may  offer  will  not  be  considered  as  coming 
from  a  warm  friend  of  theirs ;  but  I  appre- 
hend that  I  do  entertain  that  kind  of  friendly 
feeling  ibr  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West 
that  would  induce  lue  to  advise  him  most 
strongly  against  the  course  ho  lias  been  in- 
duced to  adopt,  hud  my  advice  been  asked. 
I   can    scarcely    think   that   that   honorable 


717 


gentleman  would  have  adopted  tlie  policy 
which  he  has  become  a  party  to,  unless  he  had 
beea  urged  on  to  it  by  his  colleagues  in  the 
Governmeut.  I  am  very  well  aware  that 
those  who  are  in  the  habit  of  talking  most 
loudly  of  the  rights  and  liberties  of  the  people, 
when  they  lind  themselves  in  places  of  posi- 
tion and  power,  may  frequently  forget  those 
rights.  (^Heur,  hear.)  1  am  quite  satislied 
that  if  the  Honorable  Presiaent  of  the  Council 
had  been  in  opposition  just  now,  we  would 
have  heard  the  course  that  is  now  adopted  by 
the  Government  called  the  grossest  tyranny 
and  worst  kind  of  outrage  that  could  have 
been  perpetrated  upon  a  free  Parliament  such 
as  ours.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  not  only  would 
we  have  heard  such  language  on  the  floor  of 
tliis  House,  but  through  that  engine  in 
Toronto  which  he  moves  with  so  much  power, 
we  should  have  had  it  sent  throughout  the 
whole  country.  There  would  not  have  been 
a  man  who  voted  for  it  who  would  not  have 
been  held  up  as  the  greatest  foe  to  the  rights 
and  liberties  of  the  people  that  could  be 
imagined.  (Hear,  hear.)  And  now  we  tiud 
that  hon.  gentleman  endeavoring  to  stifle,  not 
exactly  the  discussion  of  the  question,  for  we 
cannot  be  deprived  of  the  right  of  speech,  but 
to  stifle  the  expression  of  the  opinion  of  the 
House  with  reference  to  the  merits  of  this 
scheme  in  the  only  way  it  could  be  efl'ective 
and  valuable,  and  in  a  proper  parliamentary 
manner.  The  motion  now  made  prevents  our 
takin":  the  sense  of  the  House  as  to  whether 
some  moditication  of  the  scheme  might  not 
be  adopted,  or  some  other  plan  of  union  agreed 
upon  that  would  prove  more  advantageous. 
I  have  oiven  notice  of  an  amendment  that  I 
intended  proposing  in  favor  of  a  legislative 
union  of  the  provinces,  with  provisions  that 
the  laws,  the  language,  and  the  religion  of 
Lower  Canada  should  not  be  interfered  with  ; 
that  no  legislation  should  take  place  for  that 
section,  unless  that  legislation  was  originated 
by  a  member  from  Lower  Canada,  and  should 
not  become  law  unless  carried  by  u  majority 
of  the  representatives  from  that  section  of  the 
country.  I  propose  those  provisions  in  order 
that  the  rights  of  Lower  Canadians  might 
be  fully  protected,  and  that  their  institu- 
tions should  not  be  in  danger  of  destruc- 
tion, and  that  they  might  have  no  opportunity 
of  saying  that  a  change  of  this  kind  was 
desired  for  their  injury  rather  than  for  their 
benefit,  as  well  as  for  the  best  interests  of  the 
provinces  at  large.  I  had  intended  to  take 
the  sense  of  the  House  upon  this  proposition, 
mainly  lor  the  reason  that  a  legislative  union 


would  be  more  economical  and  more  stable. 
The  commissioners  who  were  sent  out  to 
Canada  by  the  Imperial  Government  to 
ascertain  what  defences  were  required,  and 
what  they  would  c  st,  reported  that  £1,300,- 

000  sterling  would  be  sufificient  for  the  pur- 
pose. I  tind  the  local  governments  to  be 
created  under  this  Federal  scheme  arc  to 
receive  for  tlieir  working  expenses  no  less  a 
sum  than  §3,981.914;  so  that  in  two  years, 
if  tlio  expenses  of  these  local  governments 
were  saved  to  tl'O  country,  they  would  amount 
to  a  suflieient  sum  to  construct  all  the  dcfojccs 
that  are  said  to  be  necessary  for  the  protection 
of  the  country  against  attack  from  any 
quarter.  But  we  are  not  to  have  the  oppor- 
tunity, it  seems,  of  taking  the  sense  ol  this 
House  as  to  whether  tliat  would  be  bcttvr 
than  the  scheme  submitted  for  our  adoption. 
And  wo  are  also  prevented  from  ascertaining 
whether  the  people  of  Canada  approve  of  tlio 
scheme  or  not.  It  would  seem  that  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  West,  for  whoso 
ability  I  entertain  a  very  high  degree  of 
respect,  has  forgotten  the  conservative  cha- 
racter that  he  has  heretofore  so  nobly  main- 
tained upon  the  floor  of  this  House,  and  in 
forgettmg  that  character,  that  ho  has  also 
forgotten  the  rights  and  liberties  of  the  people. 

1  am  not  surprised  that  those  rights  and 
liberties  should  have  been  tVrgotten  and 
trampled  upon  by  the  Honorable  President 
of  the  Council  and  the  Honorable  Provincial 
Secretary.  They  have  been  too  loud-iuouthcd 
in  their  pretended  championship  of  those 
rights  in  times  past  to  render  them  above 
suspicion  of  forsaking  them  no\.  ;  but  I  am 
surprised  that  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
West  should  go  with  them  in  stifling  the 
voice  of  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  And 
1  am  very  sorry  to  hear  it  stated  that  members 
of  the  Government  are  to  go  to  England, 
there  to  appear  carrying  as  it  were  from 
the  people  of  this  country  to  the  Imperial 
Government,  opinions  favorable  to  Confedera- 
tion. Now  in  truth  they  will  not  do  so. 
They  cannot  do  so  in  point  of  lact,  because 
they  have  not  taken  the  sense  of  the  people, 
and  have  refused  even  to.  allow  Parliament  to 
say  whether  or  not  tlie  scheme  shall  be  referred 
to  the  people,  or  whether  some  other  scheme 
would  not  be  more  acceptable,  and  much 
better  in  every  way,  than  the  one  now  under 
consideration.  They  find  that  the  people  of 
the  Lower  Provinces  are  strongly  o^iposed  to 
the  scheme,  and  yet  they  propose  to  go  home 
and  ask  the  Imperial  Governmeut  to  carry  out 
the  measure,  though  they  well  know  it  caunot 


718 


be  enforced  upon  the  people  of  the  Lower 
Provinces.     If  the  great  urgency  which  they 
profess  to  see  for  the  carrying  out  of  this 
scheme   arises    from    a    desire   to   have   the 
defences  made  secure,  why  do  not  they  ask 
Parliament  for  power  to  place  the  country  in  a 
proper  position  of  defence  ?     Why  do  not  they 
ask  for  that  if  it  is  so  urgently  demanded, 
and  leave  this  great  Confederation  question 
in  abeyance  until  the  people  in  all  parts  of  the 
country  have  had  fair  opportunity  of  under- 
standing it  in  every  point  of  view.      Tliey 
have  not  yet  had  that  opportunity,    and  I 
think  the  honorable  gentlemen  on  the  Trea- 
sury   benches,   in    depriving   them  of    that 
opportunity,  and  especially  in  doing  it  in  the 
manner  in  which  they  are  now  doing,  have 
taken  a  course  which  will  redound  to  their 
own  and  to  the  country's  disadvantage.     The 
people  only  require  to  be   awakened  to   the 
course  that  is  being  pursued,  to   understand 
that  these  opinions  and  views  are  to  be  dis- 
regarded, or  are  of  no  consequence,  to  call  forth 
that    sentence    of  condemnation   which  will 
"hurl  honorable  gentlemen  on   the   Treasury 
benches  from   place    and   power,    and    cause 
names  honored  in  the  past,  to   sink  into  dis- 
honored  oblivion.     If  the   proper  steps   had 
been  taken,    gentlemen  from  Lower  Canada 
would  never  have  been  able  to  say  that  repre- 
sentation by  population  could  not  be    safely 
given  to  Upper  Canada,  and  would  have  no 
grounds  for  fearing  that  their  rights  would  not 
be.  protected,  and    that  therefore   they  must 
reject  it.     If  they  rol'used  to  grant  represent- 
ation according  to  population  when  full   pro- 
vision is  offered  them  for  the  protection  of  their 
institutions,  it  would  be  without  other  reason 
than  that  of  the  sulky  woman  or  tjie  spoiled 
child,  and  I  do  not  believe  that  the  rcmesenta- 
tives  of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  are  made 
up  of  that  kind  of  stuff.  They  only  wish  to  be 
assured  thac  their  rights  arc  not  to  be  intei'- 
fered  with.     If  they  desired  more,  let  them 
reflect  tliat  the  hon.  member  for  iMontinorcncy 
(Hon.  Mr.  Cauchon)  in  addressing  the  House 
the  other  evening,  instanced  the  position  in 
which  the  English  Ilouseof  Lords  stood  when 
the  country  was  in  danger  of  being  plunged 
into  a  revolution  by  their  resistance  to  a  just 
])opular  demand.     He  gave  us  to  understand 
that  that  body  might  have  been  swept  away 
hel'ure  the  indignation  of  the  people,  if  it  had 
not  yielded  to  the  pressure  and  allowed  the 
Reform  Bill  to  pass.     If  that  was  the  casein 
rolorence  to  so  strong  and  highly  respected  a 
body  as  the  English  House  of  Lords,  let  thorn 
reflect  upon   what    might  bo   the  result  of 


resistimr  a  legislative   union   and   forcing  a 
scheme  so  expensive  as  the  present  one,  so  iuU 
of  elements   of  contention   and   dissolution, 
upon  the  people  of  Canada.     If  the  people  of 
Lower  Canada,  comparatively  few  in  numbers, 
with  the  Government  to  aid  them,  continue  to 
persist  in  refusing  to  give  the  people  of  I  ppcr 
Canada  that  which  is  their  right,  and  which 
can  do  no  wrong  to  any  other  portion  of  the 
country,  perhaps  they  Avill  find  that  the  people 
of  these  provinces  will  take  the  same  stand  that 
endangered  the  House  of  Lords,  in  England, 
and  the  same  results  follow,  and  then  it  will  be 
too  late  to  ask  or  offer  terms.    The  Honorable 
Attorney  General  West  ought  not   to   have 
allowed  a  free  expression  of  the  views  of  the 
members  of  this  House  to  be  stifled  in  the 
way  that  it  is  now  being  done.     The  Govern- 
ment ought  to  have  allowed  the  amendment  to 
be  put  respecting  which  I  have  given  notice, 
and  also  that  providing  for  taking  the  sense  of 
the  people.     Perhaps  it  was  thought  that  the 
motion  to  be  made  by  the  honorable  member 
for  Peel  (Hon.  Mr.  Ca>ieuon)  would  answer 
the  purpose  as  well ;  but  it  cannot  do  so,  be- 
cause it  is  not  to  be  proposed  until  after  this 
scheme  has  been  carried.     That  amendment, 
to  be  of  any  service  to  the  purpose  I  had  in 
view,  ought  to  be  made  before   those  resolu- 
tions are  voted  upon.     After  the  House  has 
expressed  itself  in  favor  of    the  resolutions, 
the   representatives    become    leaders   to    the 
people.     They  should  lead  us,  but  wc  should 
then   be   leading   them    by  seeming  to  pro- 
nounce  our   opinion    on  the   subject    before- 
hand  in   favor   of  Federal  union,   although 
I  am  satisfied  that  a  majority,  or  at  all  events 
a  very  respectable  minority  of  this  Mouse,  is 
not  in  favor  of  the  scheme  now  presented,  and 
most   of  the  honorable   gentlemen  who  have 
spoken  have   declared   a  preference  for  legis- 
lative union.    If  the  scheme  is  forced  through 
the  House  under  this  motion  for  the  previous 
question,  no  amendments  being  allowed  to  be 
phiced  on  record,  it  will  not  appear  to  the  Im- 
perial   authorities    that    tliere    is    that   great 
amount   of  dissatisfaction   with   the   scheme 
which  is  well  known  to  exist,  nor  will  it  appear 
to  them  that  any  other  scheme   might  liave 
proved  more  satisfactory  to  the  people,  giving, 
in  their  opinion,  greater  stability  of  govern- 
ment, economy  in  managoment,  and  a  means  of 
maintaining  our  connection  with  the  Hriti.sh 
Crown  by  better  and   stronger  bonds,  than  is 
likely  to  be  theca.se  with  a  Federal Governn)ent. 
For  these  reasons  Mr.  Speakkr,  I  rejteivt  tlial 
1  sincerely  regret  that  the  Honorable  Attorney 
General  West  has  been  led  to  make  the  motion 


719 


which  has  b'een  placed  iu  your  hands.  (Cheers.) 

Hon.  Mr.  3IcD0UGALL — I  am  not  sur- 
prised, 3Ir.  Speaker,  that  honorable  gentle- 
men who  are  opposed  to  the  policy  of  the 
Government  ou  this  question,  and  desirous  of 
overthrowing  it,  should  feel  a  little  disappoint- 
ment at  the  course  that  has  been  announced 
to-day.  But  I  cannot  understand  hovy  hon- 
orable gentlemen  who  are  friendly  to  that 
policy,  and  desire  that  it  shonld  prevail,  should, 
at  this  stage  of  the  discussion,  find  fault  with 
the  course  of  proceeding  which  we  have  felt  it 
our  duty  to  propose.  Sir,  we  have  been  dis- 
cussing this  question  now  for  nearly  four 
weeks,  and  I  am  sure  no  honorable  member 
will  venture  to  deny  that  the  discussion  has, 
for  the  last  ten  days,  dragged  very  heavily  ; 
that  there  has  been  a  marked  disinclination 
on  the  part  of  honorable  gentlemen  opposite 
to  go  on  with  it. 

Hox.  Mr.  DOKION— No,  no. 

Hon.  Mr.  McDOUGALL  — The  honora- 
ble gentleman  says  "No,"  but  the  fact  is  that 
adjournments  have  been  moved  several  times 
as  early  as  half-past  nine  o'clock,  because  no 
honorable  gentleman  was  ready  or  inclined  to 
speak  against  the  measure. 

Hon.  Mr.  DOlllON— Only  once,  and  that 
on  account  of  the  illness  of  the  honorable 
member  for  Brome. 

Hon.  Mr.  McDOUGALL  —  The  honor- 
able gentleman  is  mistaken.  On  another  oc- 
casion the  honorable  member  for  Hochelatia 
himself  moved  the  adjournment  at  an  early 
hour,  because  his  friends  were  not  ready  to 
go  on  with  the  discussion,  and  hon.  members 
who  were  in  favor  of  the  scheme  have  several 
times  been  obliged  to  speak,  when  they  were 
not  disposed  to  do  so,  iu  order  to  fill  up  the 
time  and  drag  the  discussion  along.  Well, 
sir,  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  West 
stated  to  the  House  yesterday,  in  such  terms 
that  no  one  could  have  misunderstood  him, 
that  the  Government  felt  it  to  be  their  duty 
to  avail  tlicmselves  of  every  parliamentary 
expedient  for  the  purpose  of  ascertaining  the 
opiuio'i  of  this  House  upon  the  question  as 
promptly  as  possible.  To-day  the  announce- 
ment has  been  repeated,  and  good  and  sufii- 
cient  reasons  given  for  the  adoption  of  this 
policy.  The  hon.  members  for  Carleton  and 
for  Nor  til  Ontario  complain  that  there  has 
been  a  departure  from  the  usual  practice  of 
this  House  in  making  this  motion,  and  charge 
us  with  stifling  discussion;  but  these  honor- 
able gentlemen  surely  do  not  need  to  be  in- 
formed that  this  motion  does  not  stop  the 
debate.     The  House  can  discuss  the  "  pre- 


vious question"  to  any  extent.  Strictly, 
perhaps,  honorable  members  are  limited  to 
giving  reasons  why  the  question  should  not 
now  be  put,  but  among  those  reasons  are  all 
the  arguments  yet  to  be  adduced,  pro  and  con, 
on  the  main  motion. 

Mr.  POWELL— Then  what  good  will  it 
do? 

Hon.  Mr.  McDOUGALL— The  good  it 
will  do  is  this :  it  will  prevent  factious  and 
irrelevant  amendments,  and  enable  us  to  get 
a  decisive  expression  of  the  opinion  of  the 
House  upon  the  real  question  before  it. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  all  very  well  for  the 
honorable  member  for  North  Ontario  to 
tell  us  that  he  wishes  to  propose  his  scheme 
of  a  legislative  union,  with  local  legislation 
controlled  by  the  members  of  each  province ; 
but  sir,  it  happens  that  he  occupies  a  seat  on 
that  side  of  the  House,  and  not  on  this.  It 
is  the  duty  of  the  Government,  who  are  re- 
sponsible to  Parliament  and  to  the  people,  to 
propose  their  measures,  and  if  the  honorable 
gentleman  can  convince  the  House  that  those 
measures  are  not  adapted  to  the  circumstances 
and  interests  of  the  country,  we  shall  be 
obliged  to  leave  this  side  of  the  House,  and 
then  the  honorable  gentleman  from  North 
Ontario  can  come  over  here  and  submit  his 
scheme  to  Parliament.  (Hear,  hear.)  But 
as  we  are  here,  and  have  taken  it  upon  us  to 
submit  these  resolutions,  we  are  determined 
to  obtain  as  early  as  possible  (without,  how- 
ever, preventing  any  honorable  member  from 
expressing  his  views  upon  them)  a  vote  of 
this  House.  The  outcry  raised  by  gentlemen 
opposite  against  the  propositions  of  the  Gov- 
ernment to  facilitate  the  discussion  by  giving 
the  whole  time  of  the  House  to  it,  proves 
that  delay  is  their  real  object.  If  they  have 
any  arguments  to  ofier  against  the  scheme, 
they  have  had  ample  opportunity  to  present 
them.  They  have  thought  proper  to  talk  of 
everything  but  the  merits  or  demerits  of  the 
scheme  itself,  until  the  patience  of  this  House, 
and  I  think  also  of  the  country,  is  exhausted. 
I  am  happy  to  believe  that  a  very  consider- 
able majority  of  the  members  of  this  House 
are  ready  and  willing  to  vote  yea  on  the  ques- 
tion, and  they  ought  not  to  be  any  longer  de- 
tained from  doing  so,  especially  in  view  of 
circumstances  that  have  arisen  on  this  as  well 
as  on  the  other  side  of  the  Atlantic,  to  which 
my  colleague  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  has 
already  directed  the  attention  of  the  House. 

Hon.  Mr.  EVANTUHEL— I  understood 
that  the  Government  had  stated  that  the 
question  of  Confederation  was  an  open  one. 


720 


I  never  understood  that  they  had  stated  that 
aiuendmeuts  could  not  be  proposed.  It  was 
to  be  treated  not  as  a  pjrty  question,  but 
the  fullest  latitude  was  to  be  allowed,  as  if 
in  committee  of  the  whole ;  but  now  the 
Governuieut  shuts  down  upon  friends  as  well 
as  opponents.  I  think  their  course  most  illog- 
ical, and  I  would  like  to  have  tl.e  Hon.  Pro- 
vincial Secretary  explain  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  McDOUGALL  — I  apprehend 
there   arc   few   honorable   gentlemen  in   the 
House  whose  impressions  on  the  subject  are 
similar  to  those  of  the  honorable  gentleman. 
(  Hear,  hear.)     It  was  fully  understood  by  the 
House  ti'at  the  scheme  was  brought  before 
Parliament  as  the  result  of  the  Conference  of 
all  the  colonial  governments,  and  as  a  Gov- 
ernment measure.     I  think,  sir,  it  was  further 
distinctly  stated  that  being  in  the  nature  of  a 
treaty,  it,was  absurd  to  suppose  that  it  would 
be  competent  for  any  of  the  legislatures  to  amend 
the  scheme,  because  the  moment  the  door  is 
thrown  open  to  amendments  in  one  legislature, 
the  same  privilege  would  be  claimed  by  each 
of  the  others.     What  kind  of  a  scheme  would 
it  be  after  each  legislature  had  tinkered  it  to 
suit  its  own  views,  and   what  lencrth  of  time 
does  the  honorable  gentleman   think  it  would 
take  to  arrive  at  a  common  agreement  if  that 
course  were   pursued?     In  the  very  nj^ture 
of  things,  whether  this  is  the  best  or  the  worst 
scheme  that  could  have  been  devised,  we  can- 
not get  around  the  fact  that  it  is  of  the  nature 
of  a  treaty,  and,  therefore,  must  be  voted  upon 
by  a  simple  yea  and  nay.     (Hear,  hear.)     It 
is  in  that  view  that  the  Government  have  sub- 
mitted it  to  this  House,  and  it  is  upon  that 
view  that  the  verdict  of  this  House  must  be 
pronounced.     As  I  have  already   stated,  the 
determination  to  which  the  Government  has 
come  is  to  press  the   main  motion,  pure  and 
simple,  upon  the  attention  of  the  House,  and 
to  use  every  legitimate  parliamentary  means 
to  get  a  decision,  and  by  that  decision  we  are 
prepared  to  stand  or  fall.      I  hope   there   will 
be  no  misunderstanding  on  the  part  of  honor- 
able members.     It  is  not  the  intention  of  the 
Government,   in  any  manner,  to  deprive  hon- 
orable  gentlemen     of    the   opportunity — the 
fullest  opportunity — of  expres.-'ing  their  views 
ou  this  bcheme.     But  what  we  do  intend  to 
prevent,  if  we  can,  is  the  altenipt  to  divert  the 
attention  of  the  House  from  the  resolutions  ol" 
the  Conference  to  propositions  like  that  of  the 
honorable   member  fur   North    Ontaiio,   who 
desires  to  submit  another  and  a  totally  differ- 
ent sclieme,  wliiuh  In-  knows  well   must  be  re- 
jected by  every  member  of  the  proposed  Con- 


federation. This  proposition  must  be  dis- 
cussed, if  discussed  at  all,  in  some  other  way 
than  as  an  amendment  to,  or  substitute  for,  the 
scheme  of  the  Quebec  Conference. 

Hon.  J.    S.    MACDONaLD— I   think, 
sir,  that  the  large  majority  of  the  members 
of  this  House   will   agree  with  me  that  the 
proposition  made  by  the  leader  of  the  Gov- 
ernment to  prevent  amendments  being  sub- 
mitted by  moving  "  the  previous  question," 
has  taken   us  all  by   surprise.     I  think  this 
House  should  hold   this  step  to  be  a  gross 
breach  of  the  understanding  which  was  en- 
tered   into   at  the  time  it   was  agreed   tiiat 
the  House  should  be  considered  as  in  com- 
mittee of  the  whole,  with  you,  sir,   in   the 
chair.     For  it  was  then  fully  understood  that 
tiiough  no  amendment  would  be  allowed  to 
be  adopted,  if  the  Goveriimeut  could  prevent 
it,  yet  there  would  be  no  objection   to    their 
being  moved  in  the  ordinary  way.     It  was 
therefore  ucderstood  that  this   House  was, 
for  all  practical  purposes,  in  Committee  of  the 
Whole,  and  as  '"the  previous  question"  could 
not  be  moved  in  Committee  ol  the  Whole,  it 
was   consequently  out  of  order  to   move  it 
now.     I  would  ask  hon.  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches,  if  they  did  not  solemnly 
enter  into  a  compact  of  that  nature  with  this 
House  ?     If  they  committed  an  error  in  de- 
ciding to  retain  the  Speak»-k  in  the  chair  on 
the  conditions  referred  to,they  are  now  taking 
advantage  of  their  own  wrong.     Sir,  the  Op- 
position proper  have  abstained  from  placing 
on    the    paper    any  notice   of  amendments. 
They  found  that  several  amendments  which 
embraced  their  views  were  to  be  moved  by 
gentlemen  who  were  friendly  to  the  Admin- 
istration.    Those  gentlemen    could  not  sup- 
pose for  a  moment  that  their  motions  were 
to   be  choked  off,  whatever  might  be  the 
intention  of  the  Government  in   relation  to 
similar  amendments   if  proposed   from  this 
side  of  the  House.     But  "  the  previous  ques- 
tion," thus  moved,  applies  ruthlessly  to  friends 
and  foes.      To  quote  the   language    of   the 
honorable    member    tor    Carlctou  : — "  It    is 
now  quite  clear  that  they  (the  Government) 
are  going  to   put   the  sa-i  c    gag   on    tlieir 
friends  that  they  devised  for  their  opponents." 
(Hear,  hear.)  J^ct  us  enquire  who  are  those 
who  compose  the  Administration,  and  who, 
after  violating  their  solemn  agrccmenr.,  now 
venture    to   trample    upon    tho  rights    and 
privil.'ges  of  the  rej)rcsentatives  of  the  jicupL' 
in  this   House '('     i   need  only  rexark  that 
niu-^-  members  of  (his  Coveinmeut,  and  who 
were  in  tho  Admin istrntiou  bclbro  tho  Coali- 


721 


tion  was  formed,  had  a  vote  of  want  of  confi- 
dence recorded  against  them  by  this  same 
House,    for    acts    of    malfeasance,    which 
must  be  fresh  in  the  memory  of  honorable 
members,    since    which    time    they     have 
evaded  an  appeal  to  the  country  in  order  to 
test  whether  their  new  and  strange  combina- 
tion would  be  ratified  by  the  people.     And 
these  gentlemen   who  have  hatched  up   a 
coalition,  by  inviting  three  members  of  the 
then  Opposition   to  join  them  on  the  most 
monstrous  terms  ever  known  in  any  country, 
are  at  this  momentproposingto  ask  this  House 
for  a  vote  of  credit,  and  for  plenipotentiary 
powers  to  authorize  them  in  England  to  speak 
for  the  people  of  Canada.  My  hon.  friend  from 
West  York  (Hon.  Mr.  Howland)  stands  in 
a  different  position  from  his  two  reform  col- 
leagues.    He  came  generously  to  the  aid  of 
his  friends  who  first  joined  the  Coalition,  but 
he  stipulated  that  he  must  first  go  to  his 
constituents.     On  a  reference  to  his  speech 
at  the  hustings,  it  will  be  found  he  said  in 
effect,  that  the  scheme  of  Confederation  was 
now  before   the  country — that  he  knew  no 
more  about  it  than  they  did  themselves,  and 
that  he  must  say  there  were  features  in  the 
scheme  which  he  did  not  like.     I  acquit  him 
of  being  in  the   same   category  with    hon. 
gentlemen  who  have  been   voted  down  by 
this  House,  because  he  has  obtained  by  his 
election  a  quasi  authority  to  deal  with  this 
grave  subject.     But  what  have  the  others 
attempted  to  do,  Mr.  Speaker  ?     How  dif- 
ferent is  their  conduct  and   their   practice 
to-day  from  what  they  promised  would  be 
their  conduct  towards  the  House  at  the  com- 
mencement of  the  debate !     And  how  widely 
have  they  strayed  from  the  programme  laid 
down  at  the  time  the  Coalition  was  formed  !  I 
shall  read  for  the  information  of  the  House 
what  were  the  views  of  the  hon.  member  for 
South  Oxford  in  1864,  when  he  stampeded 
himself,  and  took  with  him  a  large  portion 
of  the  reform  party  to  the  enemy's  camp  so 
unexpectedly,  and  upon  so  short  a  notice  : — 

Mr.  Brown  asked  what  the  Government  pro- 
posed as  a  I'emedy  for  the  injustice  complained  of 
by  Upper  Canada,  and  as  a  settlement  of  the  sec- 
tional trouble.  Mr.  Macdonald  and  Mr.  Galt 
replied  that  their  remedy  was  a  Federal  union  of 
all  the  British  North  American  Provinces,  local 
matters  being  committed  to  local  bodies,  and 
matters  common  to  all,  to  a  general  legislature 
constituted  on  the  well-understod  principles  of 
Federal  Government.  Mr.  Brown  rejoined  that 
this  would  not  be  acceptable  to  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  as  a  remedy  for  existing  evils  ; 
that  he  believed  that  Federation  of  all  the  Prov- 

92 


inces  ought  to  come,  and  would  come  about  ere 
long,  but  it  had  not  yet  been  thoroughly  consider- 
ed by  the  people — (hear, hear) — and  even  were  this 
otherwise,  there  were  so  many  parties  to  be  con- 
sulted, that  its  adoption  was  uncertain  and  remote. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— What  is  the  date 
of  that  ? 

Hon.  J.   S.  MACDONALD— Th3  hon. 

gentleman  knows  very  well  that  it  is  found 
in  the  ministerial  explanations  at  the  close  of 
last  session,  little  more  than  six  months  ago. 
Mark  the  words,  Mr.  Speaker.  Mr,  Brown 
then  stated  that  Federation  had  not  been  con- 
sidered by  the  people,  and  that  its  adoption 
was  therefore  uncertain  and  reixote.  Is  it 
because  he  found  a  good  opportunity  of 
getting  into  power,  and  because  he  visited 
the  Lower  Provinces,  and  negotiated,  and 
got  explanations  from  them,  that  the  period 
so  remote  six  months  ago  must  now  be  con- 
sidered immediate  ?  He  substitutes  the  word 
"  immediate" — for  "  remote"  a  most  extra- 
ordi  ary  perversion  of  words  : — 

Ml-.  Brown  was  then  asked  what  his  remedy 
was,  when  he  stated  that  the  measure  acceptable 
to  Upper  Canada  would  be  parliamentary  reform 
based  on  population,  without  regard  to  a  separ- 
ating line  between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
To  this  both  Mr.  Macdonald  and  Mr.  Galt  stated 
that  it  was  impossible  for  them  to  accede,  or  for 
any  Government  to  carry  such  a  measure,  and  that 
unless  a  basis  could  be  found  on  the  Federation 
principle  suggested  by  the  report  of  Mr.  Brown's 
committee,  it  did  not  appear  1o  them  likely  that 
any  thing  could  be  settled. 

Further  on  I  read  : — 

Mr.  Brown  accordingly  waited  on  the  Governor 
General,  and  on  his  return  the  memorandum  ap- 
proved by  Council  and  by  the  Governor  General 
was  handed  to  him,  and  another  interview  ap- 
pointed for  6  P.  M.,  Mr.  Brown  stating  that  he 
did  not  feel  at  liberty  either  to  accept  or  reject 
the  proposal  Avithout  consulting  with  his  friends. 

In  that  memorandum    I    find  the  following 
passages  : — 

The  Government  are  prepared  to  state  that 
immediately  after  the  prorogation,  they  will 
address  themselves,  in  the  most  earnest  manner, 
to  the  negotiation  for  a  Confederation  of  all  the 
British  North  American  Provinces. 

That  failing  a  successful  issue  to  such  negotia- 
tions, they  are  prepared  to  pledge  themselves  to 
legislation  during  the  next  session  of  Parliament — 
(hear,  hear) — for  the  purpose  of  remedying  exist- 
ing difficulties  by  introducing  the  Federal  prin- 
ciple for  Canada  alone,  coupled  with  such  provi- 
sions as  will  permit  the  Maritime  Provinces  and 


72' 


the   North   Western   Territory   to   be    hereafter 
incorporated  into  the  Canadian  system. 

Then  the  record  proceeds  : — 

Shortly  after  six  o'clock  the  parties  met  at  the 
same  place,  when  Mr.  Bkown  stated,  that  without 
communicating  the  contents  of  the  confidential 
paper  entrusted  to  him,  he  bad  seen  a  suflicient 
number  of  his  friends  to  warrart  Lini  in  express- 
ing the  belief  that  the  bulk  ol  his  Iriends  would, 
as  a  compromise,  accept  a  measure  for  the  Feder- 
ative Union  of  Canada,  with  provision  for  the 
future  admission  of  the  Maritime  Colonies  and  the 
North  West  Territory.  To  this  it  was  replied 
that  the  Administration  could  not  consent  to 
waive  the  larger  question  ;  but  alter  consider- 
able discussion,  ixu  amendment  to  the  oriiiinal  pro- 
posal was  agreed  to  in  the  tollowing  terms,  sub- 
ject to  the  appr-)val,  on  Monday,  of  the  Cabinet 
and  of  His  Excellency  : — 

•'  The  (jloverumeui  are  prepared  to  pledge  them- 
selves to  bring  in  a  measure,  next  session,  for  the 
purpose  of  removing  Ciisiing  dithculties,  ly  intro- 
ducing the  Federal  principle  into  Canada,  coupled 
with  such  provision  as  will  permit  the  Maritime 
Provinces  and  the  iSorth  West  Territory  to  be  in- 
corporated into  the  same  system  of  Government." 

The  language  of  these  quotations  cannot 
be  misunderstood  ;  lor  nothing  can  be  clearer 
than  that  the  smaller  scLienje,  that  is,  the 
Boheoie  for  the  i^'ederatiou  of  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada,  was  then  promised  and  con- 
templated as  the  one  which  was  to  precede 
that  now  under  cousiaeration.  Again  I 
quote  froHi  a  speech  of  the  Premier  made 
in  the  other  House  on  the  introduction  ot 
the  resolutions  now  before  us  : — 

The  honorable  member  (Hon.  Sii\_E.  P.  TachI:) 
here  gave  a  history  of  the  several  changes  uuiil 
the  Maci>onaldDokion  Administration  dii;d,  as 
he  staled,  of  absolute  weakness,  falling  under  the 
weight  they  were  unubie  to  cany.  Their  suc- 
cessors (the  TACH6•MAcno^Al  d  Guvc-rumeni)  were 
not  more  successtul,  and  being  deleaied,  were 
thinking  ol  appealing  to  the  country,  which  they 
might  have  dune  wiih  more  or  less  ouccfcss,  gain- 
ing a  constituency  here  and  perhaps  losing  another 
elsewhere.  They  had  assumed  the  charge  ol  atlaiis 
with  an  undeistanding  that  thfy  would  have  a  right 
to  this  appeal,  and  while  they  were  consulting 
about  it,  they  received  an  iniiiuation  irum  the 
real  chief  ol  the  Upposuion  (Mr.  bitowN),  through 
one  ol  their  own  Inends,  to  the  eliecl  that  he  was 
desirous  ol  making  overtures  to  thcin  with  the 
view  ot  seeking  to  accommodate  the  dilhculties. 
The  honorable  gentleun.n  and  some  of  his  friends 
then  came  inio  contact  with  the  leaders  ol  i he 
Uovernment,  and  it  was  agreed  between  them  to 
try  to  devise  a  scheme  which  would  put  an  end  to 
the  miaunderstHudinga,  andattheHame  time  secure 
for  Canada  and  the  other  provinces  a  position 
which  would  ensure  their  future  salety,  and  pro- 
curu  them  th»  respect  and  conlidence  of  other  na- 


tions. They  arranged  a  l^rge  scheme  and  a 
smaller  one.  If  the  larger  failed,  then  they  were 
to  fill  back  upon  the  minor,  which  provided  for 
a  Federation  of  the  two  sections  of  the  province. 

Here  is  a   recent  declaration  by    the  Pre- 
mier that  they  had  arranged  a  large  scheme 
and  a  smaller  one.    Is  it  not  important  to  us 
in  Up)'er  Canada  to  know  what  the  nature 
of  the  latter  scheme  is?    Assuredly,  it  is  not 
too  much  to  ask  that  the  little  scheme  should 
be  left  with  us,  while  they  run  away  to  Dow- 
ning-street  with   the  large  one.     We  miuht 
be  profitably  employe  1   in  th:;   meantime  in 
digesting  the  various  details  which  promise 
.«o  much  solace  and  contentment,  and  which 
for  ever  is  to  settle  all  sectional  difficulties 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada.     I  hope 
the  supporters  of  the   Administration   will 
insist  at  once  upon  the  smaller  bantling  being 
left  with  us, — this   House  agreeing  to   pay 
all  expense  of  its  care  and  protection  during 
their  absence.      (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
Instead,  therefore,    of  fulfilling   their    pro- 
mise  they   boldly  propose  to  their  reform 
followers  the  >cheme  which  the  hon  member 
for  South  Oxford  had  declared  to  be  prema- 
ture, a'jd  which  six   months  ago  he  insisted 
must  be  postponed  to  a  remote  period.    It  is 
scarcely    possible   to    find  words  sufficiently 
strong  to  characterize  in  proper  terms  so  fla- 
grant a  breach  of  a  compact  as  the  one  which 
I  have  been   describing.     It  was  of  oourae 
well  known,  last  summer,  that  the   several 
legi.'^latures  of  New  Brunswick,  Nova  Scotia 
and  Prince  Edward  Island  had  coatemplated 
a  legislative  union  of  their  provinces,  and  a 
resolution  was  passed  by  each  body  author- 
izing delegates  to  be  appointed   from   their 
respective    governments    to    meet   for   that 
object.     Charlottetown  havirg  been  selected 
as  the  place  of  meeting,  the  several  delegates 
assembled  there.     Instead  of  pcraiitting  that 
Convention  quietly  to  arrange  a  scheme  such 
as  was  contemplated  by  their  lei^isl  tures,  and 
permit  reasonable  time  for  its  pron.ulgution, 
or  a  tleclaratiou  of  its  failure  to  b^  made,  the 
gontleineu     on    the    Treasury    benches    be- 
thought tiiemselvos  of  a  plan  by  which  to 
scatter   the  Charlottetown   delegates,  caring 
nothing  for  the   disap[)ointment  which  such 
an  attack  must  have  necessarily  created  among 
the  people  of  the  sistiT   provinces.     I  blush 
to  tiiink  that  a  fearlul  responsibility  attaches 
to  this   Government   for   their   interference 
with  an  arrangement  which  was  to  make  the 
Maritime   Provinces  one   people.       Hut  not 
satisfied    with   their  visit   to  Charlottetown 
and    breaking   up   the   scheme   whivh  was 


7^3 


being  discussed  there,  they  now  coolly  ask 
us  to  give  them  authority  to  proceed  to  Dow- 
ning-street  to  report  the  utter  failure  of  their 
own  grand  scheme,  which,  as  I  remarked  in 
a  former  debate,  they  yet  hope  to  manufacture 
into  a  live  constitution  for  these  distracted 
provinces,  through  Downing-street  influence. 
(.Hear,  hear.)  It  is  well  known  that  our  finan- 
cial condition  is  truly  alarming,  and  instead  of 
proceeding  with  the  legislation  of  the  several 
measures  now  before  thj  House,  and  submit- 
ting, according  to  custom,  the  Budget,  so  that 
the  real  condition  of  our  affairs  may  be  fully 
exhibited  to  the  people,  the  gentlemen  on 
the  Treasury  benches  have  suddenly  come  to 
the  conclusion,  not  only  to  withhold  this  im- 
portant information,  but,  forsooth,  we  are 
asked  to  pass  a  vote  of  credit  to  be  accounted 
for  at  the  next  session.  A  prorogation  is 
Bhortly  to  follow,  and  the  country  will  be  lef*^ 
in  a  state  of  uncertainty  as  to  ics  future,  un- 
til it  shall  please  these  gentlemen  to  return 
from  their  mission.  When  we  consider  the 
effect  which  the  blandishments  of  the  Trea- 
sury benches  but  too  frequently  produce 
upon  members  sent  to  this  House  to  carry 
out  certain  avowed  principles  and  measures ; 
when  we  see  the  class  to  which  I  allude  vio- 
lating the  promises  made  to  their  consti- 
tuents and  going  over  "  body  and  bones"  to 
a  Government  they  were  elected  specially  to 
oppose,  we  need  not  be  astonished  shortly  to 
learn  that  influences  and  blandishments  in 
higher  quarters  will  have  the  like  effect  on 
the  gentlemen  opposite  when  abroad,  who  will 
ever  be  ready  to  find  a  plausible  excuse  for 
any  gross  betrayal  of  the  trusts  reposed  in 
them  by  pliant  and  subservient  followers. 
The  avowed  object  for  the  immediate  proro- 
gation of  the  session  is  the  imminent  danger 
which  threatens  this  province,  and  yet  we 
are  kept  in  the  dark  as  to  the  real  cause  for 
alarm.  We  are  told,  however,  that  a  large 
outlay,  but  the  amount  is  not  stated,  is  to  be 
devoted  to  fortifying  certain  portions  of 
Canada  by  the  Home  Grovernment;  and  that 
we  are  to  be  asked  to  contribute  an  unknown 
sum  of  money  towards  the  same  object.  But 
when  we  ask  for  more  definite  information, 
we  are  met  by  the  assurance  that  it  woul- 
not  be  for  the  public  interest  to  afford  further 
information  just  now.  We  are  told  to  wait 
patiently  and  to  be  content  with  the  fact  that 
certain  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
are  to  proceed  to  England  with  the  view  of 
arranging  the  amount  to  be  appropriated  by 
Canada  lor  its  defence,  and  towards  the 
maintenance  of  a  more  effective  militia  or- 


ganization then  we  have  heretofore  been 
called  upon  to  make.  I  maintain,  sir,  that 
the  understanding  in  respect  to  such  contri- 
butions could  be  as  well  arrived  at  by  means 
of  dispatches  and  correspondence  between 
this  Government  and  the  Colonial  Office. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  protLSt  against  the  transfer- 
ence of  the  negotiations  on  these  matters  to 
Downing-street,  before  we  obtain  some  more 
satisfactory  replies  to  the  questions  we  have 
addressed  to  the  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury 
benches.  The  repicsentativea  of  a  people 
overburdened  with  heavy  taxes,  have  a 
right  to  insist  on  knowing  the  limit  beyond 
which  the  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury 
benches  should  not  consent  to  make  this 
province  liable.  We  know  that  it  is  a  diffi- 
cult matter  to  obtain  money  in  England  at 
present  and  we  are  not  even  informed  of  the 
terms  on  which  the  Finance  Minister  is  now 
borrowing.  We  have  had  no  information 
upon  this  question.  We  are  kept  in  igno- 
rance of  the  position  in  which  we  are  to  be 
placed.  Now,  I  think  that  the  policy  of  the 
people  of  this  country  should  be  to  vote  what 
they  think  they  can  bear,  and  no  more.  There 
is  no  member  of  this  House,  there  is  no  man 
in  this  country,  I  fjelieve,  who  is  unwilling 
to  give  his  quota  of  taxes  for  the  work  of 
defence;  but  there  must  be  a  limit  to  every- 
thing. (Hear,  hear.)  The  principle  laid 
down  by  thiee  of  the  honorable  gentlemen 
on  the  Treasury  Benches  whom  I  now  see 
on  the  other  side  of  the  House,  when  with 
myself  they  were  ujembers  of  a  former  admi- 
nistration, is  as  sound  now  as  it  was  then; 
and  if  the  force  of  the  American  army  two 
years  ago  was  not  such  as  to  induce  us  to 
recommend,  by  way  of  guarding  against  dan- 
ger from  that  quarter,  large  outlays  for 
defence,  I  do  not  see  why  my  old  colleagues 
should  now  consent  to  entertain  a  proposal 
involving  an  euormous  sum  of  money  at  the 
present  time.  Now,  I  shall  read  extracts 
from  a  Minute  of  Council,  dated  28th  October 
1862,  in  reply  to  the  Duke  of  Newcastle's 
suggestion  that  we  should  raise  fifty  thousand 
volunteers : — 

The  proposal  of  His  Grace  to  organize  and 
drill  not  less  than  50,000  men  is  not  now  for  the 
iirst  time  presented  to  the  province.  The  mea- 
sure prepared  by  ttie  late  Government  and  rejected 
by  the  Legislature,  contemplated  the  formation  of 
a  force  to  that  extent,  and  Your  Excellency's  ad- 
visers cannot  disguise  their  opinion  that  the  pro- 
vince is  averse  to  the  maintenance  of  a  force  which 
would  seriously  derange  industry  and  tax  its 
resources  to  a  degree  justifiable  only  in  periods 
of  imminent  danger  or  actual  war.     Th©  people 


724 


of  Canada  doing  nothing  to  produce  a  rupture 
with  the  United  States,  and  having  no  knowledge 
of  any  intention  on  the  part  of  Her  Majesty's 
Government  to  pursue  a  policy  from  which  so 
dire  a  calamity  would  procoed,  are  unwilling  to 
impose  upon  themselves  extraordinary  burthens. 
They  feel  thai,  should  war  occur,  it  will  be  pro- 
duced by  no  act  of  theirs,  and  they  have  no  incli- 
nation to  do  anything  that  may  seem  to  fore- 
shadow, perhaps  to  provoke  a  state  of  things 
which  would  be  disastrous  to  every  interest  of  the 
province. 

This  was  the  opinion  of  the  honorable  gentle- 
men only  two  years  ago.   (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— How  many  of 
them  are  on  the  Treasury  benches  now  ? 

Hon.  J.  S.  MAODONALD— I  have  al- 
ready said  that  there  are  three  of  those  gen- 
tlemen there.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  to  go  on 
a  little  further,  His  Grace  recommended 
direct  taxation,  to  which  we  replied : — 

Without  entering  into  a  discussion  of  the  rela- 
tive merits  of  direct  or  indirect  taxation,  Your 
Excellency's  advisers  feel  that  it  would  not  be 
prudent,  suddenly  or  to  any  large  extent,  to 
impose  direct  taxation  for  military  purposes.  This 
is  not  the  occasion  for  adopting  a  principle 
hitherto  unknown  in  the  fiscal  policy  of  the  pro- 
vince, and  assuredly  this  is  not  the  time  for  plung- 
ing into  an  experiment  for  which  the  people  of 
the  province  are  unprepared.  No  more  serious 
mistake  can  be  committed  than  to  conduct  an 
argument  upon  the  supposition  that  the  ability  ot 
the  Canadian  people  to  sustain  taxation  is  greater 
than  has  hitherto  been  acknowledged  in  the  fiscal 
arrangements  of  the  Government. 

An-1  I  may  remark  that  the  condition  of  the 
country  at  this  moment  is  much  more  cala- 
mitous than  when  this  report  was  made. 
When  the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford 
(Hon.  Mr.  Bbown)  was  on  his  feet  a  few 
minutes  ago,  bespoke  of  the  prosperity  of  the 
merchants  in  Uppe;  Canada,  and  said  the 
condition  of  the  country  was  not  such  as  to 
justify  the  remarks  of  the  hon.  member  for 
Chateauguay  (Hon.  Mr.  Holton).  Sir,  he 
forgot  to  speak  of  the  situation  of  the  farmers, 
of  which  I  shall  speak  presently  more  at 
length.  This  report  goes  on  further  to  say: — 

The  wealth  of  the  country  is  in  its  lauds.  If 
the  people  are  in  the  enjoyment  of  comparative 
wealth,  it  is  so  inveslsd  ae  to  bo  not  readily  avail- 
able for  the  production  of  a  large  money  income. 
Your  Excellence's  advisers  believe  that  no  gov- 
ernment could  exist  that  wonld  attempt  to  carry 
out  the  suggestion  of  His  Grace  for  the  |)urpo8e 
designed. 

That  was  the  language  of  our  Governmont 
when  asked  to  train  fifty   thousand  men  and 


to  familiarize  them  to  the  use  of  arms. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  feel  that  the  pressure  which 
has  been  brought  to  bear  upon  the  Imperial 
Government  by  the  GoLDWiN  Smith  politi- 
cians— by  the  Manchester  School — to  get 
rid  of  the  colonies,  is  having  its  eflFect.  The 
telegram  received  to-day  indicates  that  the 
burden  of  the  defences  is  to  be  borne  by  the 
colonies,  as  the  telegram  now  before  me 
states : — 

Earl  RrssEi.L  regretted  the  discussion,  and  stated 
that  the  Government  declined  to  make  any  move- 
ment while  the  Canadians  declined  to  take  mea- 
sures themselves  ;  but  as  they  now  showed  a 
different  disposition,  the  Government  cojies  for- 
ward to  assist  them. 

Mr.  Speaker,  I  ask  this  House,  if  the 
honorable  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
have  made  any  proposals  to  the  Home  Gov- 
ernment, whether  we  are  not  entitled  to  know 
what  they  are?  I  say  that  we  ought  not  to 
leave  this  House  till  we  have  advised  them 
in  this  matter — till  the  opinion  of  this 
House,  representing  the  people  of  this 
country,  has  been  elicited.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  are  the  persons  who  ought  to  advise 
them  in  this  matter;  and  wi:hout  seeking 
that  advice,  they  are  taking  a  step  in  ad- 
vance of  their  legitimate  duty.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  Duke  of  Nkw-i-astle  asked  us  in  the  same 
despatch  to  place  the  money  required  fur 
increased  military  organization  in  Canada 
beyond  the  domain  of  Parliament  !  Such  a 
proposal  was  met  in  fitting  terms,  becom- 
ing a  people  enjoying  British  ireedom. 
We  could  not  submit  it  to  Parliament,  and 
we  did  not  It  was  said  in  the  same  despatch 
that  the  credit  of  the  country  was  endangered 
in  the  markets  of  Europe,  and  that  if  we  were 
willing  to  show  that  we  were  prepared  to 
defend  ourselves,  if  we  went  to  this  va.st 
outlay,  we  would  materially  assist  in  the 
maintenance  of  our  credit  abroad.  Our 
reply  to  that  was,  that — 

The  maintenance  of  the  provincial  credit  abroad 
is  undoubtedly  an  object  which  the  administrators 
of  the  affairs  of  the  province  should  at  any  cost 
accomplish.  Your  Excellency's  advisers  sulimit 
that  their  various  measures  demonstrate  the  sin- 
cerity with  which  they  aw  striving  to  preserve 
the  public  credit  unimpaired.  They  contend, 
however,  that  not  the  least  iin|>ortant  of  the 
agencies  to  be  employed  to  this  end  is  the  exhibi- 
tion of  a  due  regard  to  the  means  at  the  command 
of  the  province.  They  huld  that  they  arc  uu)re 
likely  to  reUiin  the  confidence  of  European  capi- 
talists by  carefully  adjusting  expenditure  to  m 
come,  than   by  embarking  in  scncmes,  however 


725 


laudable   in    themselves,    beyond   the  available 
resources  of  the  Canadian  people. 

[It  being  six  o'clock,  the  Speaker  left  the 
chair  before  the  honorable  gentleman  con- 
cluded his  remarks.] 

After  the  recess, 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  said— With  the  con- 
sent of  my  hon.  friend  from  Cornwall,  I  de- 
sire, before  the  debate  is  renewed,  to  call  the 
attention  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General  West 
to  the  matter  of  the  previous  question  which 
he  has  moved — to  recall  to  his  recollection 
the  statements  that  were  made  when  the 
agreement  was  come  to  that  this  debate 
should  be  conducted  in  all  respects  as  if  the 
House  were  in  Committee  of  the  Whole, 
and  to  appeal  to  his  sense  of  justice  to  adhere 
to  the  letter  and  spirit  of  that  agreement. 
It  will  be  remembered  that,  on  behalf  of  hon. 
gentlemen  sitting  on  this  side  of  the  House, 
I  objected  very  strongly  to  the  proposition 
to  consider  these  resolutions  as  a  single  re- 
solution, and  insjisted  that  they  were  of  a 
natuie  that  required  them  to  be  considered 
in  Committee  of  the  Whole  House.  The  hon. 
the  leaier  of  the  Government  objected  to 
that  on  this  ground.  He  said  that  the  reso- 
lutions were  a  treaty — I  do  not  think  the 
position  sound,  but  I  am  not  combating  that 
just  now — and  that  the  Government  were 
bound  to  bring  all  their  influence  to  bear  to 
p -ss  them  in  their  entirety ;  and  in  reply 
to  some  objection  made  by  myself,  he  said 
hon.  gentlemen  would  have  no  difficulty  in 
putting  their  views  upon  record  by  amend- 
ments moved  to  the  scheme.  I  thought  at 
the  time  that  that  was  placing  us  at  a  very 
great  disadvantage,  and  that  we  were  entitled 
to  have  the  propositions  considered  separately 
and  a  vote  taken,  yea  or  nay,  on  the  several 
resolutions;  but  I  was  overruled  and  the 
agreement  was  come  to,  which  you,  sir,  de- 
clared, rising  in  your  place,  to  be  that  the 
debate  should  be  conducted  in  all  respects 
as  in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  Well,  I  hive 
two  things  to  urge — first,  that  in  Committee 
of  the  Whole  the  previous  question  cannot  be 
moved  ;  and  second,  that  a  distinct  assurance 
was  given  by  the  Government  that  amend- 
ments could  be  moved  to  the  resolution. 
These  are  the  very  words  of  the  hon.  gentle- 
man as  given  in  the  official  report,  which 
has  been  this  moment  put  into  my  hands  : — 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  Macdonald  said  "no." 
The  proposition  submitted  to  this  House  is — That 
an  Address  be  submitted  to  Her  Majesty,  praying 


that  a  bill  should  be  passed  based  on  these  reso- 
lutions. All  amendments  might  be  moved  to  that 
one  resolution.  It  would  be  the  same  thing,  in 
fact,  as  to  move  them  upon  each  lesolution 
separately. 

Now,  the  hon.  gentleman  says  that  we  may 
not  move  amendments,  and  none  can  be 
moved  if  he  succeeds  in  getting  the  previous 
question  affirmed  by  the  House.  I  state — 
and  I  am  sure  I  have  only  to  state  it  to  him 
to  convince  him  of  the  justice  of  it — that  a 
persistence  in  moving  the  previous  question 
will  be  simply  a  violation  of  the  assurance 
the  boa.  gentleman  gave  to  the  H(  use.  and 
of  the  distinct  understanding  arrived  at  by 
the  House  at  the  opening  of  the  deljate,  and 
stated  by  you,  sir,  from  the  chair.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Am  I  to  understand  that  the  hon. 
gentleman  adheres  to  his  motion  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— I 
certainly  do  adhere  to  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— And  has  the  hon. 
gentleman  nothing  to  say  to  my  objections  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— To 
what  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— In  reference  to 
cutting  ofi"  amendments  by  this  motion. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Why 
did  not  the  hon.  gentleman  put  them  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— We  relied  upon 
the  assurance  given  by  the  hon.  gontleman 
that  there  would  be  no  attempt  to  cut  short 
oiscussion,  no  attempt  to  prevent  a  full 
and  free  expression  of  the  opinion  of 
the  House  upon  every  feature  of  the  scheme. 
I  ask  him  now  again  if  he  intends  to  adhere 
to  that  declaration  ?     (Hear,  hear) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALjJ— I 
will,  Mr.  Speaker,  on  reflection,  make  a 
few  re'Baiks  in  answer  to  the  hon.  gentle- 
man He  speaks  as  if  it  was  a  great 
concession  to  the  majority  of  this  House 
and  to  the  Government  that  the  arrange- 
ment was  made  at  the  opening  of  the  debate. 
Why,  sir,  it  was  no  concession  whatever  to 
the  Government  or  to  the  majority  of  the 
House.  (Hear,  hear.)  Acting  on  behalf 
of  the  Government,  and  with  the  full 
approbation  of  t>iy  colleagues,  1  made  a 
motion  that  an  Address  should  be  ]iresented 
to  Her  Majesty,  praying  Her  sanction  to  the 
resolutions  adopted  at  the  Quebec  Conference. 
That  motion  was  quite  parliamentary  in  its 
character,  and  there  was  no  parliamentary 
reason  whatever  why  it  should  be  considered 
in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  I'he  hon. 
gentleman  could  not,  by  any  rule  known  to 


726 


parliamentary  practice,  force  us  to  go  into 
committee  or  require  us  to   discuss  any  one 
of  these  resolutions  by  itself.     It  was  then 
quite  open  to  me,  according  to  the  usage 
of     the     House,     to    make    a    motion     for 
an  Address  to    Her   Majesty   for    the    pur- 
p.^se   stated,    and  it  was  not  as  a  favor   to 
the     Government     that     the     arrangement 
was    made    to    discuss  it  as   if  the   House 
were  in  Committee  of  the  "Whole.     On  the 
contrary,  it  was  a  concession  of  the  Govern- 
ment to  the  minority   in  the  House  j  for  I 
stated  of  my  own  mere  motion,  that  although 
I  had  a  right   to   proceed  in    the   ordinary 
manner  with  the  Speaker  in  the  chair,  and  to 
restrict    honorable   gentlemen     to    a    single 
speech  in    accordance    with    the    rules    that 
govern    debate — that   although  this  was  my 
undoubted  right  according  to  parliamentary 
practice,  yet,    for  the   purpose   of  allowing 
the  fullest  and  freest  discussion,  I  suggested 
that  the  same   rule  should    obtain   as  if  the 
House  were  in  Committee  of  the  Whole,  when 
every  member  could    speak   twenty  times  if 
he  ielt  so  disposed,  and   present  his  views 
fully  on  all  the  points  of  the  scheme.     That 
was  the   proposition  made    by    the  Govern- 
ment ;  it  was  a  fair,  liberal,  even   generous 
one.     But   how  were  we   met  by  honorable 
gentlemen   opposite  ?       We   were   ready    to 
proceed  with  the  diecussi'^n  at  once,  and  to 
present  the  subject  to  the    House  without 
delay.     But  it  was  stated   that  that  would 
be  unfair — that  the  members  of  the  Govern- 
ment should    first    make    a    statement,  and 
allow    it  to  go  to   the  House  and  country, 
60    that  neither    should    be    taken    by   sur- 
prise in  a  matter  of  so  much  importance, 
and  that  honorable  gentlemen  might   have 
the    fullest     information     upon     which     to 
make  up  their  minds.     We  did  make  our 
statement,    and  when    asked    for    a   week's 
dela)'  in  order  that  these  speeches  might  be 
fully  considered,  we  consented  to  it.     Sup- 
posing   that   after    this    postponement    the 
debate  would  go  on  at  once,  we  gave  hon. 
gentlemen  opposed   to  the  scheme  a  whole 
week  to  consider   our   remarks,  to   prepare 
themselves  for  debate,  to  work  out  objections 
to  our  arguments,  and  pick  out  al    the  flaws 
they  could  find  in  the  scheme  itself.      We 
did  this  because  we  thought  it  fair,  and  be- 
cause we  believed  hon.  gentlemen  were  sin- 
cere in  their  professed   desire  to   have  the 
fullest  information  upon  the  subject     Well, 
the  debate  began,  it   has  gone  on   now  lor 
three  weeks  since   that  postpooemeDt,  and 


as  my  hon.  colleague  the  Hon.  Provincial 
Secretary  has  said,  it  has  dragged  on 
wearily,  with  no  prospect  of  an  early  ter- 
mination. And  how  have  we  been  met 
by  hon.  gentlemen  opposite  ?  Has  it 
been  in  the  same  .spirit  that  actuated  the 
Government  throughout  the  debate?  We 
asked  them  to  come  forward,  and  honestly 
and  fairly,  in  the  presence  of  the  House  and 
country,  to  di.^cuss  the  scheme;  but  instead 
of  so  doing,  they  have  deliberately  trifled 
with  the  question  and  wasted  the  time  of  the 
House.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— No.  no  ! 

Hon  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— The 
hon.  gentleman  as  a  m:.n   of  honor   cannot 
deny  it,  as  a  man  of  candor  he  cannot  deny 
it ;  and  if  he  should  deny   it,  his  character 
as  a  man  of  honor  and  candor  would  sink  in 
the  estimation  of  this  House.    (Hear,  hear.) 
I  say  it  distinctly  that  this  was  the  plot  of 
hon.  gentlemen  opposite,  to  delay  the  con- 
sideration of  this  subject.     Tht-ir  policy  was 
to  wait,  like  Micawber,  fir  "something  to 
turn  up,"  to   see  what  would  happen  favor- 
able to  them    in  New   Brunswick,   to  learn 
what  would  be   done  in  Nova  .'^cotia,  and  to 
embrace   every    pretext  of  delay   that  pre- 
sented   itself.       The    hon.    gentleman    was 
playing,  deliberate. y   playing,  a   trick.      He 
talked  about  a  base  trick  having  been  played 
upon  the  Opposition,  but  was   it   not  a  base 
trick  in  him  not  to  discuss  this  question,  but 
to  put  it  off  upon  every  possible  excuse,  to  in- 
teirupt  hon.  gentlemen  when  they  discussed 
it,  making  inuendoes,  huggesting  motives  for 
delay,  tryiug  to  disparage   the  scheme  and 
ourselves  in  the  estimation  of  the  House  and 
country,  and  getting  others   to   say  what  he 
would  not  dare  to  say  himself   (Hear,  hear.) 
That  was  the  plan    of  the   hon.  gentleman. 
He  complains  of  not  being  able  to  move  an 
amendment,  but  the  Opposition  attempted  to 
move  none.     It  was  friends   of  the  Govern- 
ment who  offered  the  only  amendments  yet 
presented.     The  ]>olicy  of  the  Opposition  was 
just  this — they  wished    to   .spend   the  whole 
of  March  and  the  best   part  of  April  in  the 
general    discussion    upon    my   motion ;  and 
then,  when  they  could   do  nothing  more  to 
nauseate  the  liousoanl  disgu.st  the  country 
with  the  subject,  when  they  had  wearied  the 
members  and  made  the   reporters   sick  with 
tiieir  talk — (laughter) — they  were  to  .»*peud 
the  remainder  of  April,  all   May  and  June, 
and  run  the  debate  well  into  suicmcr,  upou 
the  amendments  they  intended   to  propose 


727 


one  after  another.     (Hear,  hear,  and  laugh- 
ter.)    It  is  because  these  honorable  gentle- 
men have  not  endeavored  honestly  and  can- 
didly   to    discuss    the    question,    but    have 
played  the   game  of  prolonging  the  debate 
to  midsummer   and    preventing  the   House 
coming  to  a  final   decision  upon  it,  that  the 
Government  have   taken   the  step  now  pro- 
posed, and  have  said  to  these  hon.  gentlemen  : 
"  Here,  you  have  had  a  month  to  move  amend- 
ments and  make  speeches.     You  have  been 
allowed  to  sit  here   discussing  the  question 
every  night  during  that  time,  and  sometimes 
till  one  or  two  o'clock  in  the  morning.     You 
have  not  fairly  discussed   the  scheme,   nor 
moved  any  amendments  to  it.     You  appear, 
on  the  contrary,  determined  to  obstruct  the 
measure  by  every  means  in  your  power.  You 
have  deliberately  laid  a  plot  to  throw  it  back 
with  the  view  of  defeating  it  in  this  under- 
hand  manner.     We  are  not  going  to  allow 
that,  nor  should   be  worthy  of  the  position 
we  hold  as  a  Government  if  we  did  allow  it;" 
and,  sir.  I  should  be  unworthy  of  the  char- 
acter the  hon.  gentleman  (Hon.  Mr.  Holton) 
gives    me   of    being   a    good    parliamentary 
strategist,  if  I  allowed  this  plot  of  preventing 
the    House    coming    to    a   vote  to  succeed. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Now,  in   resorting  to  mea- 
sures to   prevent  the   success  of  this  game 
played  by  the  Opposition,  we  have  not  taken 
hon.  gentlemen  opposite  or  the  House  by. 
surprise.     We  gave  them  from  the  middle 
of  winter  almost  to  the  beginniug  of  spring, 
and   the  opening  of  navigation,  to  discuss 
the  question  and  propose  amendments;  and 
when  we  saw  they  were  determined  to  waste 
the   time  of  the  House  and  country  indefi- 
nitely, I  came  down  yesterday  and,  on  behalf 
of  the  Government  and  with  the  full  appro- 
bation of  my  colleagues,  stated    fairly  and 
frankly  that  it  was  of  the   greatest  conse- 
quence, the  utmost  consequence,  to  the  best 
interests  of  this  country,  that  this  question 
should   not   be    allowed  to  drag    on   before 
Parliament,  but  that  a  vote  should  be  taken 
without   delay,  in  order  that  we  might  be 
able  to  tell  the  sister  provinces  and  inform 
Her  Majesty  that  the  contract  we  made  with 
them,    the    arrangement    we    entered    into 
with  the  governments    of  those  provinces, 
had  met  the  full  approbation   and   consent 
of   the   Parliament  and   people   of  Canada. 
(Hear,    hear.)       And    I    gave   fair    notice 
that  the  Government  considered  the   recent 
political  events  in  New  Brunswick,  and  the 
state  of  affairs  in  that  province,  called  not 


only  for  action,  but  prompt  action  by  this 
House  ;  and  that  every  proper  and  legitimate 
means    known    to    parliamentary    practice 
would  be  taken  by   the  Government  for  the 
purpose  of  getting  this  House  to  come  to  a 
full   and  final   decision  upoo    the   question. 
(Hear,  hear.)      We  have   never  taken  hon. 
gentlemen  by  surprise.      On  the   contrary, 
we  have  allowed  them  every  latitude  in  this 
debate,  and  have  given  them    fair  notice  all 
through  of  what  we  intended  to  do.     But 
how  have  we  been  met  by  them  ?     Have  we 
been  met  in  the  same  spirit  of  frankness  and 
sincerity  ?     No — and  I  say  it  without  hesita- 
tion,  we  have   been  met   throughout   in    a 
spirit   of    obstruction    and    hostility ;    and, 
instead  of  discussing  the  question  fairly  on 
its    merits,    hon.    gentlemen    opposite    are 
dragging  on  the  debate  slowly  for  months, 
in  order   to    tire   out    the    patience    of  the 
House  and   country.     (Hear,  hear.)     I   ask 
the     House     whether     they     will     permit 
such    a   shabby,    such    a    miserable    game 
to    be    played     successfully  ?       Will    they 
allow  a  question  so   closely  identified  with 
the  best  interests  of   Canada  to  be  thrown 
across  the  floor  of  the  House   like  a  battle- 
dore between   the  hon.   members  for  Corn- 
wall  and    Chateauguay  ?     Will  they  allow 
these  hon.  gentlemen  to  trifle  with  it,  not  so 
much   because    they    are    opposed    to   the 
scheme  itself  or   disapprove  of  its  general 
principles,  as  because  of  those  by  whom  it  is 
presented   for  the   adoption   of  the    House. 
(Hear,   hear.)      Sir,   there    has  been   some 
little  misapprehension  as  to  the  effect  of  the 
motion  I  have  proposed  to  the  House,  which 
it   is  as  well  should   be   removed.     It  has 
simply  and  only  this  effect — that  it  does  not 
prevent    hon.    members    expressing    their 
views  fully  and  freely  upon  the  subject,  but 
calls  upon  every  hon   gentleman  to  give — if 
I  may  use  an  Americanism — a  straight  and 
square  vote  upon  the  question,  and  to  state 
plainly  whether  or  not   he  approves  of  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  as  a  whole.   (Hear, 
hear.)     As  I    stated    when   I   opened    this 
debate  upon  my  motion,  and    as  has  been 
over  and  over  again  stated  by  several  of  my 
colleagues,  we  agreed  with  the  governments 
of  the  sister  proviices  upon  a  future  Con- 
stitution  for    the  whole   of  British  North 
America,  and  we  ask  this  House  to  approve 
or  disapprove  of  that  Constitution.     We  told 
the  House  that   we   had  made   this    treaty 
with  the  sanction  of  Her  Majesty  and  of  the 
Imperial  Government 


7^8 


Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— With  some  quali- 
fications. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— No  ; 
we  told  the  House  that  we  had  the  previous 
sanction  of  Her  Majesty  and  of  Her  Majesty's 
representative  to  our  meeting.  The  Confer- 
ence met  and  sat  under  this  authority,  and 
we  worked  out  a  scheme  for  the  Constitution 
of  the  provinces.  That  scheme  may  be  a 
good  or  it  may  be  a  bad  one  ;  but  whether  it 
be  good  or  bad,  we  have  a  right  to  ask  this 
House  to  approve  or  disapprove  of  it,  to  accept 
or  reject  it.  We  had  the  sanction  of  Her 
Majesty  and  the  Imperial  Government  to  our 
meeting — because  this  House  knows  that  the 
union  of  these  colonies  is  a  matter  of  great 
Imperial  as  well  as  of  great  local  interest — 
and  under  that  sanction  we  have  worked  out 
a  Constitution  and  made  a  bargain  with  the 
other  provinces.  We  have  pledged  ourselves 
as  a  Government  to  come  down  to  the  Cana- 
dian Parliament  and  say — "  Here  is  a  Con- 
stitution which  we  have  agreed  upon  for  the 
future  government  of  these  provinces.  We 
have  agreed  to  submit  it  to  this  House,  just 
as  the  governments  of  the  other  provinces 
have  agreed  to  submit  it  to  their  respective 
legislatures.  We  have  a  right  to  ask  the 
members  of  this  House  whether  in  their  judg- 
ment it  is  a  scheme  that,  with  all  the  faults 
and  imperfections  it  may  have,  ought  to  be 
entered  into  by  the  Parliament  of  this  coun- 
try. We  exercise  this  right,  and  ask  you  to 
declare  by  your  votes,  yes  or  no,  whether  we 
were  right  in  framing  this  measure,  and 
whether  it  is  such  an  one  as  ought  to  be 
adopted  by  this  House."  (Hear,  heai .)  This, 
Mr,  Speaker,  is  the  position  of  the  Govern- 
ment ;  and  what  though  amendments  should 
be  carried — what  though  the  amendment  of 
which  tlie  honorable  member  for  North  On- 
tario has  given  notice  should  succeed,  and  the 
House  should  declare  in  favor  of  a  Legislative 
instead  of  a  Federal  union  (supposing  the 
honorable  gentleman  did  present  and  carry 
such  a  motion) — what  good  could  it  possibly 
do  ?  The  contract  that  we  entered  into  with 
the  other  provinces  would  be  broken,  this 
Legislature  would  be  violating  the  solemn 
engagement  under  which  we  are  to  the  other 
colonies,  ami  we  would  have  a  Constitution 
drawn  up  which  none  of  the  other  provinces 
would  adopt.  Wc  know  that  they  would 
reject  it — we  know  that  Lower  Canada  would 
go  as  one  man  against  it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Well,  the  other 
provinces  go  against  this. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— At 


all  events  the  governments  of  the  other  pro- 
vinces will  submit  the  question  to  their  legis- 
latures and  take  their  opinion  upon  it,  and 
we  have  a  right  to  ask  this  House — "  Do  you 
or  do  you  not  approve  of  it  ?  If  you  disap- 
prove of  the  scheme  altogether  because  of  its 
general  principles,  why  vote  it  out.  If  you 
think  that  it  ought  to  be  a  Legislative  and  not 
a  Federal  union,  why  vote  it  out.  If  you  think 
it  wrong  to  create  a  life  peerage  instead 
of  an  elective  Legislative  Council,  why  vote 
it  out.  Vote  it  out  for  any  or  all  of  these 
reasons  if  you  like ;  but  give  us  at  once  an 
honest,  candid  and  fair  vote  one  way  or  the 
other,  and  let  the  sister  colonies  know  without 
delay  whether  you  approve  of  the  arrange- 
ment or  not."  (Hear,  hear.)  And,  sir, 
amendments  are  a  mere  matter  of  folly  and 
absurdity.  (Hear,  hear,  and  ironical  cheers 
from  the  Opposition.)  Honorable  gentlemen 
opposite  cry  "Hear,  hear."  I  do  not  of 
course  speak  of  the  merits  of  any  proposition 
in  amendment  for  a  legislative  union,  or  an 
elective  Legislative  Council,  or  for  any  other 
change  in  the  provisions  of  the  scheme  ;  but  I 
state  this  in  all  earnestness,  that  for  all  prac- 
tical purposes  the  carrying  of  any  amendment 
to  this  scheme  is  merely  to  lose  the  only 
chance  of  union  we  can  ever  hope  to  have 
with  the  Lower  Provinces  for  the  sake  of 
some  fancied  superior  Constitution  which  we 
cannot  get  any  of  the  colonies  to  agi-ee  to. 
(Hear,  hear.)  All  we  ask  this  House  to  do 
is  what  the  other  branch  of  the  Legislature 
has  already  candidly  done,  to  discuss  the 
matter  fairly  and  honestly  upon  its  merits, 
and  then  to  come  to  a  vote  upon  it.  Those 
who  think  the  Constitution  likely  to  place 
the  country  in  a  worse  position  than  it  now 
occupies,  will  vote  against  it.  Those  who 
think,  on  the  other  hand,  that  it  is  an  ap- 
proximation at  any  rate  to  what  is  right, 
that  it  will  bring  the  colonies  together  into 
closer  communication,  that  it  will  form  the 
basis  of  a  powerful  and  enduring  alliance  with 
England,  will  vote  for  it  with  all  its  faults. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Now,  as  to  the  consequences 
of  this  motion  which  I  have  proposed,  this 
House  ought  to  know  that  not  a  single  speech 
can  be  cut  off  or  shorn  ot  its  dimensions  by  it, 
and  that  every  honorable  gentleman  can  dis- 
cuss the  question  of  Confederation,  giving,  as 
fully  as  he  desires,  the  reasons  why  he  will 
vote  for  or  against  the  scheme  proposed.  All 
the  motion  will  do,  all  the  Government  wish 
to  do,  is  to  keep  the  question  before  the 
House ;  and  the  honorable  member  for  North 
Ontario  can  speak  as  well  to  it  us  if  he  had 


729 


his  ameudmeai  in  his  hand,  and  can,  as  he 
usually  does,  make  as  able  a  speech  as  if  there 
were  half-a-dozen  amendments  proposed  to  it. 
The  whole  scheme,  in  fact,  is  as  much  in  the 
hands  of  the  House,  and  as  fully  before  it  and 
open  to  discustion,  as  it  was  on  the  day  I 
moved  its  adoption.  All  this  motion  will  do 
is  to  prevent  honorable  gentlemen  opposite 
playing  the  trick  which  I  have  spoken  of — 
drawing  the  discussion  away  from  the  main 
question  before  the  House,  getting  up  debates 
upon  the  powers  of  the  General  Grovernment 
and  of  the  local  governments,  upon  an 
elective  or  an  appointed  Legislative  Council, 
and  upon  all  sorts  of  side  issues  upon  which 
the  changes  would  be  rung  night  after  night 
and  week  after  week,  through  the  spring  and 
summer,  till  the  House  became  weary  with 
the  surfeit  of  talk,  and  the  country  disgusted. 
(Hear,  hear.)  That,  sir,  is  the  aim  and 
object  of  honorable  gentlemen  opposite,  bat  I 
hope  this  House  will  not  be  so  foolish  as  to 
fall  into  the  trap  they  have  laid,  and  I  know 
honorable  members  are  fully  aware  of  the 
designs  of  these  honorable  gentlemen.  They 
cannot  complain  that  they  have  not  had  an 
opportunity  of  moving  amendments.  They 
have  had  three  weeks  to  do  it,  and  they  have 
not  yet  moved  one  or  given  notice  of  one. 
Then,  sir,  what  will  be  the  consequences,  on 
the  other  hand,  if  the  previous  question  is  not 
carried?  If  it  is  rejected,  and  the  main 
question  is  not  put,  Confederation  is  defeated. 
And  I  will  at  once  inform  the  House  that  to 
vote  that  the  main  question  be  not  put,  will 
throw  Confederation  over  forever,  and  forever 
destroy  the  last  hopes  of  a  friendly  junction 
between  the  colonies  of  British  North  Amer- 
ica.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  — Why  the  last 
hopes  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— Be- 
cause if  we  reject  now  the  agreement  come 
to  by  all  the  governments  of  all  the  provinces, 
we  can  never  expect  to  get  them  to  meet 
again  to  make  another. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  — But  cue  of  these 
Governments  has  ceased  to  exist. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  3IACD0NALD— The 
hon.  gentleman  knows  perfectly  well  that  the 
governments  of  all  the  provinces  are  pledged 
to  the  scheme,  but  that  the  legislatures  have 
not  yet  expressed  themselves  upon  it.  If  any 
of  them  appear  now  to  be  hostile  to  it,  that 
feeling  may  disappear  when  it  is  fully  ex- 
plained to  them.  Even  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral Palmer,  of  Prince  Edward  Island,  may 
himself  become  convinced  of  its  desirability, 
93 


and  vote  for  it.  We  cannot  say  how  those  legis- 
latures will  vote,  but  what  we  propose  to  do 
is  to  lay  our  action  before  the  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment, and  ask  it  to  exercise  its  icfluence 
with  the  other  colonies  in  securing  the  pas- 
sage of  the  scheme.  And  I  have  no  doubt 
that  if  the  Mother  Country  gives  friendly  ad- 
vice to  the  sister  colonies  in  that  kindly  spirit 
in  which  she  always  gives  it,  if  she  points  out 
that  in  her  view  this  scheme  is  calculated  to 
serve,  not  only  our  interests,  but  the  general 
interests,  welfare  and  prosperity  of  the  Em- 
pire, I  am  quite  satisfied  that  the  people  of 
those  colonies,  whatever  may  be  their  local 
feelings,  will  listen  at  all  events  with  respect, 
and  perhaps  with  conviction,  to  the  advice  so 
given  by  the  Imperial  Government.  I  have 
no  doubt,  indeed  I  am  satisfied,  that  if  the 
Imperial  Government  gives  that  advice,  it  will 
be  in  the  spirit  of  kindness  and  maternal  love 
and  forbearance,  and  that  if  England  points 
out  what  is  due  to  ourselves  as  well  as  to  the 
Empire,  and  shows  what  she,  in  her  exper- 
ience and  wisdom,  believes  to  be  liest  for  the 
future  interests  of  British  North  America, 
her  advice  will  be  accepted  in  the  spirit  in 
which  it  is  offered,  and  sooner  or  later  with 
conviction.  (Cheers.)  For  all  these  reasons 
I  think  the  members  of  the  Government 
would  be  wanting  in  their  duty  in  this  great 
strait,  this  great  emergency  in  our  affairs,  if 
they  did  not  press  for  the  decision  of  this 
House  as  quickly  as  possible.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Why,  there  is  the  question  of  defence,  which 
the  honorable  member  for  Cornwall  admits  to 
be  of  the  most  pressing  importance,  that  re- 
quires immediate  attention  and  demands  that 
further  delay  in  dealing  with  this  scheme 
should  not  be  allowed. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— What  has  defence 
to  do  with  this  scheme  of  Confederation? 
The  honorable  gentleman  has  stated,  over  and 
over  again,  that  it  has  nothing  to  do  with  it. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— The 
honorable  gentleman  is  mistaken.  The  two 
questions  are  intimately  connected. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Why,  when  we 
asked  for  information  the  other  day  as  to  what 
it  is  proposed  to  do  in  the  matter  of  defence, 
the  honorable  gentleman  said  that  that  was  a 
different  subject  from  this  altogether.    (Hear, 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— The 
honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  certainly 
did  move  a  series  of  resolutions  asking  lor  in- 
formation upon  this  subject,  which  we  refused, 
because  they  were  offered  for  the  purpose  of 


730 


obstructing  and  delaying  the  debate  on  this 
fccheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  I  say  that 
there  is  an  intimate  connection  between  these 
two  questions  of  defence  and  Confederation,  I 
mean  this  :  that  the  progress  of  recent  events 
— events  which  have  occurred  since  the  com- 
mencement of  this  debate — has  increased  the 
necessity  of  immediate  action,  both  with  re- 
gard to  defence  and  to  this  scheme.  Honor- 
able gentlemen  opposite  have  been  in  the  Gov- 
ernment— they  have  been  behind  the  scenes — 
and  they  know  that  the  question  of  the  de- 
fence of  British  North  America  is  of  great 
and  pressing  importance,  and  they  know  that 
the  question  of  the  defence  of  Canada  cannot 
be  separated  from  it.  And  honorable  gentle- 
men have  been  informed,  and  will  lind  by  the 
scheme  itself,  that  the  subject  was  considered 
by  the  Conference,  and  that  it  was  arranged 
that  there  should  be  one  organized  system 
of  defence  for  the  whole  of  the  provinces  and 
at  the  cost  of  the  whole.  Well,  it  is  now  of 
the  greatest  importance  that  some  members 
of  the  Government  should  go  home  imme- 
diately, in  order  that  England  may  know  what 
the  opinion  of  Canada  is  upon  this  question  of 
Confederation,  as  well  as  upon  the  question  of 
defence.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Is  that 
what  you  want  them  to  go  for  ? 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  31ACD0NALD— Yes. 
The  season  is  fast  approaching  when  it  will  be 
necessary  to  commence  these  works — the  only 
seas(jn  during  which  they  can  be  carried  out 
at  all ;  and  that  man  is  not  true  to  his  country, 
that  man  is  not  a  true  patriot,  who,  for  the 
sake  of  a  petty  parliamentary  triumph,  for  tlie 
sake  of  a  little  party  annoyance — for  the  con- 
duct of  the  Opposition  amounts  to  nothing 
more — would  endeavor  to  postpone  some  defi- 
nite arrangement  on  this  important  question 
of  defence.  (Hear,  hear.)  Yes,  Mr.  Speaker, 
this  opposition  is  either  one  or  the  other  of 
two  things — it  is  either  for  the  sake  of  party 
annoyance,  or  it  is  a  deliberate  desire  to  pre- 
vent anything  being  done  to  defend  ourselves, 
in  order  that  we  may  easily  fall  a  prey  to  an- 
nexation. (Cheers.)  I  do  not  like  to  believe 
that  honorable  gentlemen  opposite  entertain 
any  wi.sh  to  become  connected  with  the 
neighboring  republic,  and  therefore  I  am 
ibrced  to  the  conviction  that  they  arc  actuated 
by  the  miserable  motive  of  gaining  a  little 
parliamentary  or  party  success.  There  are 
only  two  alternatives  of  belief,  and  one  or  the 
other  of  them  must  be  correct.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  believe  the  honorable  member  for  Chateau- 
guay  is  ia  his  heart  strongly  in  favor  of  a 


Federal  union  of  these  colonies ;  but  because 
it  is  proposed  by  honorable  gentlemen  on  this 
side  of  the  House,  he  canuct  and  will  not 
support  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  So  long  as  my 
honorable  friend  the  Hon.  Finance  Minister  sits 
here  on  these  benches,  so  long  as  Mordecai 
sits  at  the  King's  gate — (laughter) — and  so 
long  as  the  honorable  gentleman  sits  on  the 
opposite  instead  of  this  side  of  the  House,  so 
long  will  he  find  fault  and  object.  Hit  high 
or  hit  low,  like  the  flogged  soldier,  nothing 
will  please  him.  (Renewed  laughter.)  But 
I  believe  the  House  will  not  sanction  such 
pitiful  conduct  as  honorable  gentlemen  op- 
posite exhibit.  I  believe  we  will  have  a 
large,  an  overwhelming  majority,  to  sustain  us 
in  the  course  we  have  adopted ;  and  that  we 
should  be  highly  blameable  were  we  to  exhaust 
the  patience  not  only  of  ourselves,  but  of  our 
supporters,  by  allowing  this  conduct  to  be 
pursued  much  longer  unchecked.  These,  sir, 
are  my  answers  to  the  questions  of  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Chateauguay.  (Cheers.) 
Hon.  Mr.  H0LT0N~1  have  the  satis- 
faction of  having  provoked  from  the  hou. 
gentleman  altogether  the  best  speech  he  has 
delivered  during  this  debate.  So  much  I 
freely  admit,  and  I  think  his  own  followers 
will  confess  that  this  is  the  first  time  he  has 
spoken  with  anything  like  his  usual  spirit 
and  force  during  the  whole  debate.  This 
was  perhaps  inevitable,  because  in  his  other 
speech,  and  notably  in  his  introductory 
speech,  he  labored  under  the  consciousness 
that  the  scheme  was  at  variance  with  his 
own  antecedents,  and  was  not  approved  ol  by 
anybody.  We  had,  therefore,  at  that  time 
none  of  that  vivacity,  none  of  that  strength 
of  declamation,  none  of  that  humor  with 
which  his  brief  speech  this  evening  has 
overflown.  But,  sir,  to  return  to  the  point 
to  which  T  called  your  attention  when  you 
resumed  the  chair.  To  that  point  the  hon. 
gentleman  has  not  been  pleased  to  speak. 
He  has  gone  off"  on  all  sorts  of  subjects  Ho 
has  said  he  will  not  hold  himself  bound  by 
the  arrangements  which  he  himself  entered 
into  at  the  opening  of  the  debate.  He 
saj's  ho  does  not  consider  himself  so 
bound  ;  and  I  must  be  allowed  to  say  a  word 
or  two  in  reference  to  his  excuse  for  his  de- 
parture from  that  agreement.  He  says  that 
i  and  other  hon.  gentlemen  on  this  .side 
have  been  instrumental  in  wasting  the  time 
of  the  House.  Enijthatically  ]  deny  that 
statement.  (Hoar,  hear.)  That  we  did  re- 
sist the  unfair  attempts  on  the  citlier  side  of 
the  House  to  change  the  order  of  the  debate 


731 


which,  was  deliberately  established,  whereby 
the  debate  was  to  be  resumed  every  evening 
at  half-past  seven,  I  do  not  deny.  I  frankly 
admit  it,  and  claim  that  we  were  justified  in 
so  doing;  at  all  events  I  am  prepared  to 
take  the  responsibility  of  having  contributed 
my  share  to  that  result.  But  as  to  the 
debate  on  the  main  motion,  I  defy  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  to  indicate  one  hon.  gentle- 
man on  this  side  who  has  wasted  a  single  mo- 
meat  of  the  time  of  theHouse — who  has  spoken 
beside  the  question — and  who  has  spoken 
in  order  to  postpone  the  question  and  to 
protract  the  debate.  And  for  proof  of  this 
assertion,  I  venture  to  say  that  when  we  get 
the  extended  reports  of  this  debate,  it  will 
be  found  that  the  space  occupied  by  the 
speeches  of  honorable  gentlemen  who  support 
this  measure  is  at  bast  twice  that  which  is 
occupied  by  the  speeches  of  hon.  gentlemen 
on  this  side  of  the  House.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  C ARTIER— That's 
just  the  complaint  made  on  this  side,  that 
you  will  not  speak.     (Laughter.) 

Hon  Mr.  HOLTON— Oh,  we  are  wasting 
time  by  not  speaking — that's  the  charge  ! 
(Laughter.)  It-  is  quite  obvious  that  the 
honorable  gentleman's  leader  would  never 
have  made  a  blunder  of  that  kind.  We 
have  wasted  the  time  of  the  House  by  not 
speaking  !  Well,  sir,  it  is  a  very  novel  way 
of  talking  against  time,  by  holding  our 
tongues  !  (Laughter.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  am  not  going  into  the  general  debate.  I 
shall  not  proceed  with  this  matter  further. 
I  rose  for  the  purpose  of  appealing  to  the 
sense  of  justice  and  common  fairness  of  hon. 
gentlemen.  That  appeal  has  been  disre- 
garded. They  adhere  to  that  unfair  step  of 
theirs,  and  of  course  we  must  meet  it  as  we 
can.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  —  Mr. 
Speaker,  the  boa.  gentleman  found  fault 
with  what  I  stated  just  now.  But  what  I 
said  was  quite  correct ;  and  that  is,  that  we 
wanted  to  give  as  free  scope  to  the  debate 
as  could  be  afforded  on  both  sides  of  the 
House.  When,  however,  hon.  gentlemen 
on  the  other  side  had  their  opportunity  to 
speak,  they  were  never  ready ;  and  we  all 
remember  that  on  two  occasions  they  actually 
moved  the  adjournment  of  the  House,  one 
night  at  nine  o'clock,  and  again,  when  the 
hon.  member  for  Brome  (Mr.  Dunkin)  was 
unable  to  continue  his  speech,  at  ten  o'clock. 
Some  hon.  gentlemen  on  this  side  had 
promised  to  speak,  and  I  well  recollect  that 


the  hon.  member  lor  Lincoln  (Mr.  Mc- 
Giverin)  had  to  come  to  their  relief,  and 
filled  up  the  space  in  the  debate,  in  order  to 
give  the  opportunity  to  the  Opposition  of 
being  ready  on  the  following  day.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— I  cannot  allow  the 
Hon.  Attorney  General  West  to  run  away 
from  the  question  by  jone  of  those  "  artful 
d()dges,"  for  which  he  is  so  well  known  in 
this  House  and  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  question  put  to  him  by  my  honorable 
friend  the  member  for  Chateauguay  (Hon. 
Mr.  Holton)  was,  whether  he  did  not  agree 
to  the  debate  being  continued  on  certain 
terms,  and  in  such  a  way  as  that  full  oppor- 
tunity should  be  given  to  hon.  members  to 
move  their  amendments.  It  is  very  well  for 
the  Attorney  General  West  to  say  that  that 
arrangement  was  made,  not  for  the  benefit  of 
the  House,  not  for  the  advantage  of  the 
public,  not  for  the  convenience  of  honoraole 
members,  but  out  of  mere  courtesy  by  the 
Government.  Sir,  the  proposition  was  his 
own.  The  hon.  gentleman  himself  came  to 
the  House  and  stated  the  manner  in  which 
the  debate  should  be  conducted,  actually 
proposing  that  the  rule  which  prevented 
honorable  members  speaking  more  than  once 
on  the  same  question,  with  the  Speaker 
in  the  chair,  should  be  suspended,  in 
order  that  every  member  should  have  the 
same  freedom  of  discussion  as  though  we 
were  in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  That  was 
the  proposition  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  himself,  thinking  it  the  most  proper 
way  to  conduct  the  course  of  the  debate. 
He  went  further,  and  stated  it  as  his  opinion 
that  after  the  debate  comiiienced,  it  should 
go  on  each  day  after  half-past  seven,  leaving 
tlie  afternoon  sitting  for  the  other  business 
of  the  House.  This  was  another  of  the  hon. 
gentleman's  voluntary  statements.  Then, 
e-oino;  on,  what  do  we  find  ?  We  find  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  West,  immediately  after, 
in  answer  to  my  hon.  Iriend  on  my  right 
(Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald),  saying  : — 

His  idea  was  that  after  the  debate  commenced, 
it  should  go  on  each  day  after  half-past  seven, 
leaving  the  afternoon  sitting  for  other  business. 

And  again — 

The  suspension  of  the  rules  he  proposed  was 
for  the  protection  of  the  minority,  by  allowing 
each  member  to  speak  and  state  his  objections  as 
often  as  he  pleased.     •******' 

•  •  •  *  *  He  agreed  that  Mr.  Came- 
ron's  proposition  was  a  reasonable  one.     The 


732 


Government  would,  in  the  first  instance,  lay  their 
case  before  the  House,  and  through  the  press  be- 
fore the  country,  and  then  allow  a  reasonable 
time  for  the  country  to  judge  of  the  case  as  pre- 
sented by  the  Governmenl. 

The  JIou.  President  of  the  Council  also 
said  : — 

Although  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  had  proposed  that 
the  discussion  should  continue  day  after  day,he  had 
not  suggested  for  a  moment  that  the  vote  should 
be  hurried  on  ;  the  debate  at  any  period  might  be 
adjourned,  if  deemed  necessary,  to  allow  time  for 
the  expression  of  public  opinion.  There  were 
130  members,  and  almost  every  member  would 
desire  to  speak  on  the  question  j  and  he  thought 
clearly  the  proper  course  was  to  devote  every 
day,  after  half-past  seven,  to  the  discussion,  to 
allow  all  members  on  both  sides  to  state  their 
views,  that  they  might  go  to  the  country  and  be 
fully  considered. 

This,  then,  was  the  manner  in  which  the 
Grovernment  brought  the  proposition  before 
the  House — the  matter  was  to  be  discussed 
without  hurry,  and  the  whole  of  the  130 
members  on  the  floor  of  the  House  were  to 
be  allowed  to  express  their  opinions  fully, 
and  their  views  were  to  go  to  the  country 
to  be  fully  weighed  and  consideied.  After 
that  we  heard  the  Plon.  Atty.  Gen.  West 
saying  : — 

Of  course  it  was  competent  to  the  House  to 
vote  against  the  Address  as  a  whole,  or  to  adopt 
amendments  to  it ;  but,  if  they  did  so,  it  would 
then  be  for  the  Government  to  consider  whether 
they  would  press  the  scheme  farther  on  the  atten- 
tion of  the  House. 

Still  further,  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  West 
said  : — 

All  amendments  might  be  moved  to  that  one 
resolution.  It  would  be  the  same  thing,  in  fact, 
as  to  move  them  upon  each  resolution  separately. 

This,  Mr.  Speaker,  occurred  during  the 
preliminary  discussion. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  MACDONALD— That 
is  right. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— But  you  back  out 
of  it  now. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— Why  did 
you  not  move  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — I  was  saying  that 
this  oc-curred  in  the  preliminary  discus- 
sion which  took  place  on  the  floor  of  the 
House  when  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  West 
himself  brought  in  the  resolution  upon 
which  the  discussion  of  this  measure  should 
be  based.  We  proposed  that,  as  the  best 
protection  for  the  minority,  we  should  go 
into  Committee  of  the  Whole;  but  the  Hon, 


Atty.  Gen.  West  said  that  we  should  have 
all  the  advantages,  and  more,  too,  than  if  we 
went  into  committee.  He  promised  that 
we  should  be  allowed  to  express  our  views 
as  often  as  we  pleased,  while  we  would  have 
the  benefit  of  greater  order  being  kept,  with 
the  Speaker  in  the  chair,  than  would  be 
possible  in  Committee  of  the  Whole.  We 
relied  upon  this  agreement  being  kept,  and 
believed  that  not  only  would  members  be 
allowed  to  express  their  views  without 
check,  but  that  the  public  would  have  time 
to  hold  meetings  and  petition.  We  there- 
fore consented  at  once  to  the  eight  days' 
adjournment,  which  was  suggested  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Peel  (Hon.  J.  H. 
Cameron),  and  which  was  considered  by 
all  a  most  reasonable  proposition.  Well,  the 
Government  took  eight  days  to  send  their 
speeches  to  the  country,  and  four  days  after 
the  debate  was  resumed,  we  find  the  hon- 
oiable  member  for  Montreal  Centre  (Hon. 
Mr.  Rose)  putting  a  notice  on  the  paper  to 
do  away  with  the  solemn  agreement  which 
was  entered  into  on  the  floor  of  Parliament 
between  the  honorable  members  on  the  min- 
isterial side  and  the  minority  in  opposition. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  honorable  gentlemen  on 
the  Treasury  benches  closed  the  exposition 
of  their  case  on  the  8th  of  February.  On 
the  16th  the  debate  was  resumed,  and  on 
the  21st — Saturday  and  Sunday  intervening 
— ^just  two  nights'  debating  having  taken 
place  in  the  meantime — the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Montreal  Centre  went  to  every  mem- 
ber to  get  a  round  robin  signed  for  the  pur 
pose  of  breaking  a  solemn  agreement,  which 
had  been  entered  into  in  good  faith,  between 
the  Government  and  the  minority.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Having  failed,  after  two  nights'  dis- 
cussion, to  carry  the  resolution  of  which  he 
had  given  notice — after,  I  say,  the  honor- 
able member  for  Montreal  Centre  had  been 
foiled  in  his  attempt  to  carry  that  motion — 
the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  West  put  a  notice  on 
the  paper  to  the  same  effect,  thereby  as.^^um- 
iug  the  responsibility  of  all  that  had  been  done 
in  this  respect  by  the  honorable  member  for 
Montreal  Centre.  And  in  the  absence  of  the 
Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  West,  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gen. 
East  moved  that  resolution  for  breaking  the 
agreement  which  lie  and  his  colleagues  had 
solemnly  entered  into.  (Hear,  hear.)  And, 
sir,  not  only  did  they  attempt  to  break  this 
agreement,  so  as  to  prcvcist  discussion  on 
the  part  of  the  minority,  and  to  stifle  the 
expression  of  public  opinion,    which    was 


733 


manifesting  itself  at  public  meetings,  which 
were  being  held  everywhere  throughout  the 
country,  and  making  itself  known  to  this 
House  through  the  right  of  petition  ;  but  we 
now  find  the  hon.  gentlemen  taking  advan- 
tage of  ever/  rule  and  technicality  known 
to  parliamentary  practice  to  accomplish  the 
same  object.  (Hear,  hear.)  And,  forsooth, 
the  hon.  gentleman  rises  in  his  place  and 
attempts  to  justify  himself  by  calling  the 
Opposition  a  factious  opposition,  and  by 
charging  it  with  wasting  the  time  of  the 
House.  They  are  anxious  to  strangle  the 
discussion  after  five  or  six  days'  debate, 
when  more  time  had  been  employed  by  hon. 
members  on  that  side  than  by  hon.  members 
on  our  side,  having  already  succeeded  in 
forcing  on  the  discussion  at  half-past  three 
in  the  afternoon,  instead  of  half-past  seven, 
according  to  the  agreement.  And  now,  sir, 
we  are  witnessing  the  extraordinary  spec- 
tacle of  a  Government  moving  the  "  previous 
question  "  to  their  own  motion.  (Cheers.) 
Well,  indeed,  might  the  hon.  member  for 
Carleton  (Mr.  Powell)  ask  if  there  could 
be  found  a  precedent  for  such  a  course  ! 
Hon.  gentlemen  who  can  accomplish  such  a 
thing  as  the  "  double  shuffle"  can  never 
be  much  embarrassed  for  the  want  of  a 
precedent.  They  who  have  so  long,  by 
means  of  parliamentary  tricks,  succeeded  in 
maintaining  their  position,  are  now  inventing 
a  new  dodge  in  order  to  choke  off  discussion 
on  this  question.  Already,  sir,  have  we 
seen,  oa  one  celebrated  occasion — in  the 
Corrigan  case — the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  rising  in  his  place  and  moving  a 
resolution,  and  afterwards  inviting  his  own 
followers  to  vote  against  it.  (Cheers.) 
And  now,  following  a  similar  course,  he  is 
proposing  the  "  previous  question,"  the 
object  of  which  is,  in  ordinary  parliamentary 
practice,  to  prevett  a  vote  being  taken  on 
the  main  proposition.  Whenever  an  hon. 
gentleman  does  not  want  to  vote  in  favor  of 
the  question  before  the  House,  and  dares 
not  vote  against  it,  he  moves  or  gets  a 
friend  to  move  the  "  previous  question," 
which  is  that  the  question  be  now  put,  and 
votes  against  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  Such  is 
the  invariable  practice  in  England,  where 
parliamentary  usage  is  better  known  than  in 
this  country,  and  we  here  find  a  govern- 
ment resorting  to  a  similar  dodge  in  reference 
to  a  measure  of  their  own,  and  the  most 
important  measure  that  was  ever  brought 
before  the  country. 


strong 


Hon.    J.    S.    MACDONALD— And 

strong  government,  too. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— Yes,  and  a 
government,  as  my  honorable  friend  says — 
a  government  which  boasts  of  having  an 
immense  majority,  and  of  having  the  power 
to  oarry  such  measures  as  it  pleases.  It  is 
such  a  government  as  this,  I  saj,  which  is 
dragging  its  supporters  still  deeper  through 
the  mire — which  is  saying  to  them  :  "  Ycu 
shall  vote  for  the  scheme  without  putting 
your  views  on  record,  and  without  giving 
the  people  an  opportunity  of  expressing  their 
opinion  in  the  usual  constitutional  manner." 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  what  do  they  gain  by 
such  a  course  ?  They  acknowledge  it  will 
not  stop  discussion.  And  thus  they  will  not 
gain  a  single  hour  or  a  single  minute  in  point 
of  time.  But  this  they  will  gain — if  their 
supporters  are  blind  enough  to  follow  them 
— thoae  who  are  pledged  to  their  constituents 
not  to  vote  for  the  scheme  without  first 
submitting  it  to  the  people,  will  be  forced 
into  eating  up  all  the  promises  that  they 
have  made  whilo  in  the  presence  of  their 
constituents.  It  may  be  possible  that  they 
will  find  some  who  will  thus,  following  the 
example  shown  them  by  the  Government, 
give  the  denial  to  their  solemn  promises, 
and  turn  their  backs  on  the  pledges  they 
have  given — they  may  find,  I  say,  a  few 
of  their  followers  doing  this ;  but  I  shall 
be  much  mistaken  if  the  majority  of  the 
members  of  this  House  who  have  gone 
to  public  meetings  in  the  country — who 
have  met  their  constituents  face  to  face,  and 
who  have  faithfully  pledged  themselves  to 
vote  for  an  appeal  to  the  people,  will  be 
dragged,  as  the  honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
other  side  attempt  to  drag  them,  into  doing 
that  which  their  own  consciences  and  their 
promises  to  their  constituents  alike  forbid. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  will  be  discreditable  to 
this  House,' should  honorable  members  be 
found  in  such  a  position — if,  by  a  mere 
dodge  of  this  kind,  Ministers  themselves  can 
not  only  break  their  own  promises,  but 
compel  their  supporters  to  break  their  pro- 
mises as  well.  I  hope,  for  the  honor  of  this 
House  and  the  country,  there  will  not  be 
found  one  of  those  who  have  promised  to 
vote  for  an  appeal  to  the  people,  recording 
his  vote  for  the  question  now  before  the 
Chair.  Let  it  be  clearly  understood,  that 
every  honorable  member  who  votes  for  the 
previous  question  declares  against  any 
amendment  being  moved  to  the  main  motion. 


734 


against  any  expression  of  opinion  on  the 
part  of  the  members  of  this  House  being 
placed  on  record.  In  voting,  too,  for  the 
"  previous  question,"  he  also  votes  to  coa- 
done  the  breach  of  faith  of  which  honorable 
gentlemen  have  been  guilty  towards  this 
House.  And,  sir,  honorable  gentlemen 
must  have  sunk  very  low  in  the  estimation 
of  their  own  friends,  when  two  or  three  of 
their  warmest  supporters  have  to  rise,  one 
after  the  other,  to  charge  them,  as  was  done 
this  afternoon,  with  a  breach  of  faith,  and 
with  not  having  kept  their  promises  to  this 
House  and  to  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
In  my  opinion,  the  honorable  gentlemen 
would  have  shown  a  little  more  dignity  and 
self-respect  had  they  not  thus  exposed  them- 
selves to  the  taunts  of  their  own  friends. 
But  I  cannot  believe  that  the  House  will 
consent  to  be  led  away  by  the  dexterous  man- 
agement of  the  Hon.  Attorney  G-eucral  West 
— by  the  fictitious  indignation  which  he  is 
always  ready  to  summon  to  his  assistance, 
and  with  which  he  has  burst  upon  the  House 
to-day.  In  respect  to  the  factiousness  of 
the  Opposition,  T  repeat  that  I  never  wit- 
nessed in  this  House  such  a  spectacle  as 
that  which  has  just  been  displayed  by  hon. 
gentlemen  on  the  other  side.  Never,  in  my 
life,  did  I  hear  a  strong  government  rising 
in  its  place,  and  upon  a  question  of  this  mag- 
nitude, involving  the  dearest  interests  of 
the  country,  exclaiming — "  You  shall  accept 
the  scheme  as  a  whole;  you  shall  not  even 
have  the  opportunity  of  moving  a  single 
amendment."  The  honorable  gentleman, 
sir,  treated  as  an  absurd  proposition  that  of 
the  honorable  member  for  North  Ontario 
— which  is  also  the  desire  of  the  Lower 
Provinces — for  a  legislative  union,  with 
guarantees  for  the  laws,  language  and  reli- 
gion of  the  inhabitants  of  Lower  Canada, 
instead  of  a  Federal  union.  But,  sir,  is  it 
not  the  case  that  a  great  many  members  of 
this  House,  nay,  some  in  the  Administration, 
would  prefer  that  to  the  proposed  scheme  of 
Federation  ?  Is  it  not  also  the  case  that  in 
Nova  Scotia,  Hon.  Mr.  Howe  has  set  his  face 
against  Federation,  and  is  a  strong  advocate 
of  legislative  union,  which  the  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite  treat  ;i8  on  absurdity. 
Well,  sir,  whether  it  is  an  absurdity  or  not, 
every  honorable  member  of  this  House  ought 
to  have  an  opportunity  to  put  his  views  on 
record,  and  of  saying — '*  I  want  a  legislative 
union,  and  not  a  Federation;  I  want  an 
elective,   and   not   a  nominativo   Council." 


(Hear,  Hear.)  Sir,  the  honorable  gentle- 
men say  that  a  legislative  union  is  an 
absurdity,  that  an  appeal  to  the  people  on 
this  question  is  also  an  absurdity ;  but  thia 
is  only  in  keeping  with  their  whole  course  of 
conduct,  which  i&  to  treat  the  people  of  this 
country  with  contempt,  and  altogether  to 
disregard  the  wishes  of  their  representatives 
in  Parliament.  (Hear,  hear.)  Not  only  do 
they  treat  this  side  with  contempt,  but  they 
treat  with  even  greater  contempt  their  own 
friends,  whom  they  are  trying  to  coerce  into 
approval  of  their  unconstitutional  course  of 
conduct.     (Cheers.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACBONALD  resumed  his 
speech,  which  was  interrupted  at  the  dinner 
recess,  by  saying  : — 

His  Grace  proceeds  to  point  out  a  course 
which,  if  followed,  would  most  assuredly 
secure  the  accomplishment  of  the  object  he 
had  in  view.  He  says: — 

Whaterer  other  steps  may  be  taken  for  the  im- 
proved organization  of  the  militia,  it  appears  to 
Her  Majesty's  Government  to  be  of  essential 
importance  ;hat  its  administration  and  the  supply 
of  funds  for  its  support,  should  be  exempt  from 
the  disturbing  action  of  ordinary  politics.  L'nless 
this  be  done,  there  can  be  no  confidence  thai  iu 
the  appointment  of  officers  and  in  other  matter.^ 
of  a  purely  military  character,  no  other  object 
than  the  efficiency  of  the  force  is  kept  in  view. 
Were  it  net  that  it  might  fairly  be  considered  too 
great  an  interference  with  the  privileges  of  the 
representatives  of  the  people,  I  should  be  inclined 
to  suggest  that  the  charge  for  the  militia,  or  a 
certain  fixed  portion  of  it,  should  be  defrayed 
from  the  Consolidated  Fund  of  Canada,  or  voted 
for  a  period  of  three  or  five  years. 

I  trust  the  House  will  bear  with  mc  while 
I  read  the  opinion  of  the  Canadian  Govern- 
ment on  this  extraordinary  proposition  : — 

Another  suoforostiou  embraced  in  His  Grace's 
despatch  is  well  calculated  to  c.x;cite  surprise. 
Your  Excellency's  advisers  allude  to  that  portion 
of  the  despatch  in  which  His  Grace  proposes  to 
remove  the  control  of  funds  required  for  militia 
purposes  from  the  domain  of  Parliament.  His 
Grace  is  evidently  av/,ire  that  the  proposition 
wears  the  aspect  of  "an  interference  with  the  privi- 
leges of  the  representatives  of  the  people,"  and  it 
is  certain  that  any  measure  liable  to  this  construc- 
tion never  will  be,  and  ought  not  to  be  enter- 
tamed  by  a  people  inheriting  the  freedom  gua- 
ranteed by  British  institutions.  The  Imperial 
Parliament  guards  with  jealous  care  the  means  of 
maintaining  the  military  and  naval  forces  of  the 
Empire.  Its  approjjriations  are  annually  voted, 
and  not  the  most  powerful  minister  has  dared  to 
propose  to  the  House  of  Commons  the  abandon- 
ment of  its  controlling  power  for  a  period  of  five 


735 


years.  If  the  disturbing  action  ''  of  ordinary 
politics"  is  a  reason  for  removing  the  final  direc 
tion  of  military  preparations  from  Parliament,  it 
is  in  every  sense  as  applicable  in  England  as  in 
Canada.  What  the  House  of  Commons  would 
not  under  any  circumstances  of  danger  entertain, 
is  not  likely  to  be  entertained  by  the  Legislature 
of  Canada.  Whatever  evils  are  incident  to  repre- 
sentative institutions,  the  people  of  a  British  pro- 
vince will  not  forget  that  they  are  trivial  in 
comparison  with  those  which  are  inseparable  from 
arbitrary  authority.  Popular  liberties  are  only 
safe  when  the  action  of  the  people  retains  and 
guides  the  policy  of  those  who  are  invested  with 
the  power  of  directing  the  affairs  of  the  country. 
They  are  safe  against  military  despotism,  wielded 
by  a  corrupt  government,  only  when  they  have  in 
their  hands  the  means  of  controlling  the  supplies 
required  for  the  maintenance  of  a  military  organ- 
ization 

I  will  now  quote  one  more  extract  from  the 
same  report,  which  will  exhibit  the  opinion 
entertained  at  that  time  by  us  in  relation  to 
the  political  union  of  the  provinces.  What 
I  am  now  about  to  read  was  written  in  answer 
to  a.  proposition  made  from  the  Colonial  Of- 
fice that  a  fund  should  be  raised  by  the 
British  North  American  Colonies,  and  which 
should  be  expended  under  the  direction  of 
the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  common  defence 
of  the  whole  country.  The  extract  here  cited 
will  place  the  House  in  a  position  to  under- 
stand what  was  then  intended  to  ba  done  : — 

A  union  for  defence  is  proposed  by  His  Grace 
the  Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonies — a  union 
of  the  British  North  American  Provmces,  for  the 
formation  and  maintenance  of  one  uniform  system 
of  military  organization  and  training,  having  a 
common  defensive  fund,  and  approved  by  Her 
Majesty's  Government — a  union,  whose  details 
would  emanate  from  the  Secretary  of  State,  and 
whose  management  would  be  entirely  independent 
of  the  several  local  legislatures.  Your  Excel- 
lency's advisers  have  no  hesitation  in  expressing 
the  opinion  that  aity  alliance  of  this  character 
cannot  at  present  be  entertained.  An  Interco- 
lonial Railway  seems  to  be  the  first  step  towards 
any  more  intimate  relations  between  the  British 
Norih  American  Provinces  than  those  which  now 
exist.  The  construction  even  of  this  work  is  by 
no  means  certain ;  although  this  Government, 
looking  at  it  mainly  as  a  means  of  defence,  has 
entertained  the  preliminaries,  in  common  with 
delegates  from  the  provinces  of  Nova  Scotia  and 
New  Brunswick.  It  is  premature,  just  now,  to 
speculate  upon  the  possible  political  consequences 
which  may  never  be  consummated.  Certain  it  is, 
however,  that  there  can  be  no  closer  intercolonial 
union  of  any  kind  until  increased  facilities  for  in- 
tercommunication are  provided ;  and  equally 
certain  that  the  provinces,  supposing  them  to  be 
hereafter  united,  will  never  contribute  to  an 
expensive  system  of  defence  unless  it  be  subject 


to  thSir  own  control.  Speaking  for  Canada, 
Your  Excellency's  advisers  are  sure  that  this  pro- 
vince will  continue  to  claim  the  exclusive  right 
of  directing  the  expenditure  of  the  public 
moneys. 

Sir,  these  were  the  replies  to  the  various 
propositions  submitted  by  His  Grace  in  rela- 
tion to  our  contributions  towards  the  defence 
of  this  country,  and  to  the  means  for  supply- 
ing the  same.  If  diiferent  ground  is  now 
taken  by  honorable  gentlemen  on  the  Trea- 
sury benches,  it  seems  to  me  that  they 
abandon  the  rights  which  belong  to  a  free 
people — ihe  right  of  controlling  the  expendi- 
ture of  our  own  money,  the  denial  of  which 
caused  the  revolt  of  the  American  colonies 
in  1776.  In  the  observations  I  have  made 
on  the  question  cf  defence,  and  the  willing- 
ness of  the  people  of  this  country  to  contri- 
bute their  share,  I  wish  to  be  understood 
that  the  proportion  asked  of  us  shall  be 
according  to  our  ability.  What  I  say  is 
that  in  the  condition  in  which  the  country 
is  at  this  moment,  it  would  be  idle  for  us  to 
undertake  an  outlay  which  would  hopelessly 
embarrass  our  exchequer.  To  organize  a 
large  force  in  connection  with  the  outlay  for 
fortifications,  would  require  a  large  number 
of  men,  who  would  be  withdrawn  from  the 
industry  of  the  country — and,  that  industry 
being  heavily  taxed,  without  any  return  being 
expected; — and  the  soil  refusing  perhaps  to 
be  as  prolific  as  in  other  years,  most  serious 
embarrassments  would  overtake  us  in  the 
attempt  to  defend  ourselves  in  a  war  which 
we  had  done  nothing  to  provoke.  And, 
having  no  knowledge  of  the  Imperial  policy 
which  might  bring  about  such  a  war,  I  say 
it  becomes  the  people  of  this  country,  before 
they  undertake  a  large  outlay  for  defence  or 
military  organisation,  to  consider  what  por- 
tion we  can  bear  of  the  burdens  sought  to  be 
imposed  upon  us,  (Hear,  hear.)  I  say 
nothing  of  the  sensational  style  of  speaking 
which  the  Attorney  Geueral  West  gets  up 
about  other  topics,  in  order  to  get  away  from 
the  point  raised  by  my  honorable  friend  from 
Chateauguay,  who  stated  the  case  in  a  way 
that  any  one  who  desired  might  have  met  it 
fairly.  When  a  plain  answer  is  wanted  to  a 
pointed  question,  honorable  gentlemen  oppo- 
site invariably  fly  off  to  something  else.  I 
will  not  allude  to  the  debate  <vhich  incident- 
ally followed  after  the  recess  this  evening, 
and  before  I  resumed  my  observations  a 
little  while  ago,  farther  than  to  make  a 
remark  on  the  statement  of  the  Attorney 
General  West,  that  I  sneered  at  the  question 


736 


of  defence.  The  honorable  gentleman  Itopped 
there,  and  I  do  not  know  what  he  in- 
tended to  add.  I  suppose  it  was  to  be  the 
{•ame  courteous  and  elegant  language  which 
he  addressed  to  my  honorable  friend  the 
member  for  Chatcauguay — language  which, 
as  regards  its  audacity  and  vituperative 
character,  no  other  member  of  this  House 
would  condescend  to  use.  Complaints  from 
this  side  of  the  conduct  of  the  Govern- 
ment generally,  the  honorable  gentleman 
meets  by  getting  up  in  a  dreadful  fury, 
and  singlingout  honorable  gentlemen  on  this 
side  for  personal  attack.  Such  conduct,  I 
think,  is  unworthy  of  the  leader  of  this 
House.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  deny  that  I  have 
ever  sneered  at  the  dei'ence  question.  During 
my  life,  it  has  been  more  than  a  sentiment 
with  me — it  has  been  a  principle  that  this 
country  should  be  defended.  I  know  it  is  a 
duty  we  owe  to  the  Empire,  as  a  self-gov- 
erning colony,  to  contribute  a  fair  proportion 
of  our  means  for  defence.  And  I  am  sure  I 
speak  the  sentiments  of  every  honorable 
member  on  this  side,  when  I  say  that  we  are 
prepared,  to  the  extent  of  our  resources,  to 
contribute  all  we  can  for  that  object.  But  it 
is  not  only  that  we  are  called  upon  to  con- 
tribute means  for  our  defence  ;  we  shall  be 
called  upon  also,  in  the  time  of  danger,  to 
contribute  men,  to  shed  the  best  blood  of  the 
couutiy,  to  see  our  fields  devastated,  our 
towns  destroyed,  our  trade  and  commerce 
ruined.  All  these  are  consequences  of  a 
state  of  war,  which  must  necessarily  fall 
upon  us,  in  the  event  of  that  calamity  arising. 
We  have  all  that  to  consider,  and  we  have 
the  consciousness  also  that,  without  a  very 
large  amount  of  Imperial  aid,  it  would  be 
impossible  for  us  for  a  long  time  to  resist  an 
invasion  of  this  country.  But,  while  taking 
this  ground,  let  us  not  be  led  away  by  this 
buncombe  talk  of  loyalty — by  the  dragging 
in  of  tlic  name  of  the  Sovereign  and  the 
name  of  the  Guvcrnor  General  by  hon.  gen- 
tlemen opposite.  To  over-awe  and  whip  in 
their  supporters,  they  say  to  them  that  they 
must  do  what  they  bid  them,  because  the 
Queen  has  said  this,  and  the  Governor 
General  has  said  that,  and  they  constantly 
refer  to  "  loyalty."  For  ray  OM'n  part,  I  never 
invoke  the  aid  of  that  term — for  I  always 
take  it  for  grunted  that  men  are  loyal,  until 
they  prove  by  word  or  deed  that  they  are 
disloyal.  (Hear,  hoar.)  The  imputations 
cast  on  our  loyalty  are  a  gratuitous  insult 
offered  to  true  Britons,  who  have  proved  in 
times  past,  and  are  ready  to  prove  again. 


their  loyalty  and  their  valour  —men,  whose 
attachment  to  the  soil  on  which  they  were 
born  makes  them  still  more  anxious  to  keep 
their  hearths  and  firesides  free  from  the 
pollution  of  the  invader.  Those  who 
have  come  here  only  yesterday  cannot  feel 
the  strength  of  the  ties  which  bind  us 
to  our  native  laud :  and  yet  they  have 
the  audacity  to  charge  us  with  being  an- 
nexationists. So  fap  from  submitting;  to 
this  imputation,  I  charge  the  gentlemen  on 
the  Treasuiy  benches,  by  the  course  of  legis- 
lation they  have  introduced — by  the  sudden 
manner  in  which  they  have  changed  their 
tactics,  and  proceeded  to  organise  a  Constitu 
tion  which  familiarises  the  people  of  this 
country  more  to  American  institutions  than 
anything  ever  done  here  before — I  charge 
them  with  having  done  much,  to  hasten 
annexation.  I  put  it  to  honorable  gentlemen 
whether  the  outside  talk  of  annexation  is  not 
assuming  a  very  alarming  aspect.  (Ironical 
cries  of  "  Hear  !  hear"  Irom  the  Ministerial 
benches.)  Yes,  and  I  charge  hcnorabl^gen- 
tlemen  with  the  fatal  consequence  of 
placing  the  issue  before  the  English  public, 
the  people  of  this  country,  and  the 
people  of  the  United  States — that  either  this 
selt-made,  unauthorised  Constitution  must  be 
supported,  or  else  the  rejection  of  it  will  be 
tantamount  to  annexation,  and  consequently 
that  we  are  annexationists  at  heart  who  do  not 
approve  of  this  measure.  We,  who  raise  our 
voices  honestly  against  the  scheme,  being 
desirous  really  to  perpetuate  our  connection 
with  the  Mother  Country,  and  to  delend  this 
province  with  the  means  we  have,  are  to  be 
stigmatised  as  annexationists  by  the  JMinister 
of  Agriculture,  who  sends  it  forth  to  the 
world,  that  there  are  annexationists  not  only 
here  but  down  in  the  Lower  I'rovinccs.  He, 
forsooth,  is  the  man  of  all  others  to  talk  about 
loyalty  !  I  have  listened  with  disgust — (oh  ! 
oh  !) — with  disgust,  at  the  assumption  with 
which  the  honorable  gei;tloman  passes  judg- 
ment on  those  who  will  be  found  standing 
by  the  British  flag  when  he  will  bo  nowhere. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Yes ;  1  can  scarcely  restrain 
my  anger  when  1  hoar  th.it  honorable  gentle- 
man reading  xis  a  lecture  on  loyalty.  It  is 
"  Satan  reproving  sin."  When  he  gets  into 
a  government  with  a  number  of  super- 
loyal  gentleman,  he  forsooth  must  stigmatise 
as  disloyal  every  one  who  will  not  go  just 
his  own  way. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE — I  had  said  all  these 
things  you  refer  to,  bjforo  you  took  mo  into 
your  government.  (Laughter.) 


737 


Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Whilst  the 
honorable  gentleman  was  with  ns,  we  kept 
him  as  close  as  we  could,  and  it  was  a  hard 
task.  (Laughter.)  We  managed,  however, 
to  keep  him  right,  and  he  took  his  part 
in  settling  the  principles  which  were  laid 
down  in  the  answer  we  gave  to  the  Duke  of 
Newcastle. 

Hon.  Mr.  McGEE— Some  of  the  \lews 
laid  down  in  that  document  are  very  good, 

PIoN.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  — And  no 
doubt,  whgn  he  disagrees  with  the  gentlemen 
with  whom  he  is  now  associated,  and  leaves 
them  as  he  left  us,  he  will  have  different 
views  again. 

Hon.  Mr.  McG-EE— 1  will  never  go  back 
to  you. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— The  honor- 
able gentleman  was  glad  to  come  to  us.  Tfc 
was  the  first  lift  he  got  in  Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  McG-EE— T  never  sought  vou. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  was' led 
into  this  digression  in  consequence  of  the 
taunts  and  imputations  cast  upon  us  this 
evening  by  the  leader  of  the  House.  We 
were  obliged  to  him  for  saying,  in  his 
speech  at  the  opening  of  this  debate,  that  we 
are  all  loyal  in  this  country ;  and  yet  the  At- 
torney General  East  in  his  speech  made  on 
the  following  day,  said  there  were  annexation- 
ists here — there  were  the  John  Dougall 
party  and  the  extreme  democratic  party.  It 
is  not  for  me  to  reconcile  the  statements  of  the 
two  honorable  gentlemen.  One  says  there 
are  no  annexationists,  the  other  says  there  are. 
The  Hon.  Attorney  General  East  spoke  of 
an  annexation  sentiment  in  Montreal.  Whe- 
ther he  is  right  or  not,  we  know  that  that 
city  became  notorious  for  its  annexation 
proclivities  at  a  former  time.  With  regard 
to  the  prosperity  of  the  country,  and  its  con- 
dition at  this  present  time,  I  have  some 
observ;:tions  to  make,  and  will  leave  the 
House  to  deduce  therefrom  how  far  the 
Administration  will  be  justifiable  in  asking 
from  this  House  authority  to  make  the  out- 
lay which  they  may  propose  for  purposes 
of  defence.  T  have  paid  that  the  cry  of 
annexation  has  arisen  from  the  attempt 
made  by  honorable  gentlemen  opposite  to 
shape  our  Constitution  after  the  American 
model.  And  there  is  nothing  more  natural 
than,  when  the  commerce  of  the  country  is 
at  a  stand-still,  when  indebtedness  prfesses 
hard  and  heavy  upon  the  farmers  and 
mechanics  as  well  as  merchants^  and  all 
branches  of  trade  are  depressed — nothing  is 

94 


more  natural  than  that  people  should  look 
somewhere  for  relief  This  leads  me  to  state 
that  the  desire  for  chang« — which  it  is  said 
this  proposed  scheme  is  intended  to  meet — 
has  not  been  produced  so  much  by  any  sec- 
tional difficulties,  as  by  the  embarrassments 
which  have  overtaken  the  country.  Make 
the  institutions  of  this  country  analogous, 
except  in  some  very  trifling  instances  of  dif- 
ference, to  those  of  the  United  States,  and 
let  us  feel  that  our  commerce  is  too  limited, 
and  embarrassments  have  overtaken  us 
— and  the  result  will  be  that,  the  policy  of 
honorable  gentlemen  opposite  with  regard  to 
this  question  will  make  people  look  to  the 
States,  in  spite  of  themselves.  I  wish  to 
shew  that  the  state  of  the  country  ten  years 
ago  was  much  more  prosperous  than  it  is 
now.  The  condition  in  which  we  found  our- 
selves in  1852  and  1853  justified  us  to  a  great 
extent  in  going  into  a  large  indebtedness  for 
the  Grand  Trunk.  And  probably  the  healthy 
condition  of  the  farming  interest  and  of  every 
branch  of  trade  at  that  time,  justified  to  some 
extent  the  enactment  of  the  Municipal  Loan 
Fund  Act,  which  enabled  municipalities  to 
borrow  money  for  all  sorts  of  impfovemanta. 
Having  referred  to  the  state  of  prosperity 
which  then  prevailed,  I  shall  next  allude  to 
the  cause,  which,  in  iny  judgment,  more 
than  anything  else  contributed  to  produce 
the  disastrous  difficulties  which  have  since 
overtaken  the  country.  I  first  quote  from  the 
despatch  of  Lord  Elgin  in  1852,  to  show 
what  was  our  condition  about  that  period,  when 
transmitting  to  the  Colonial  Office  the  Ca- 
nadian Blue  Book  for  the  previous  year : — 

I  had  the  honor,  with  my  despatch,  No.  2, 
on  the  9th  September,  to  transmit  two  copies  of 
"  Tables  of  the  Trade  and  Navigation  of  the  Pro- 
vince of  Canada  for  1851,"  and  I  now  enclose  the  ' 
Blue  Book,  together  with  a  printed  copy  of  the 
"  Accounts  of  the  Province,"  and  of  a  Report  by 
the  Commissioner  of  Public  Works  for  the  same 
year.  These  documents  furnish  much  gratifying 
evidence  of  the  progress  and  prosperity  of  the 
colony,  and  justiiy  the  anticipations  on  this  head 
expressed  in  my  despatch.  No.  94,  of  the  1st 
August,  1851,  which  accompanied  the  Blue  Book 
of  1850. 

That  is  the  official  statement  made  by  the 
then  Governor  General  to  the  Mother  Country. 
And  what  does,  he  say  in  the  following  year? 
In  1853,  after  going  over  a  number  of  facts, 
shewing  the  advancement  of  trade  and  com- 
merce, and  the  general  progress  of  the 
country,  he  says,  in  the  last  sentence  but  one 
of  his  despatch  : — 


738 


I  enclose  the  supplement  of  a  local  newspaper, 
which  contains  copies  of  the  addresses  that  were 
presented  to  me  at  various  points  in  niv  progress 
up  the  Ottawa.  Your  Grace  will  observe  with 
satisfaction  the  uniform  testimony  which  they  bear 
to  the  prosperity  of  the  country  and  the  content- 
ment of  the  inhabitants.  Reports  which  reach 
me  from  other  parts  of  the  province  speak  on 
this  point  the  same  languajre.  Canada  l;as  enjoyed 
seasons  of  prosperity  before,  but  it  is  doubtful 
whether  any  previous  period  in  the  history  of  the 
colony  can  be  cited  at  which  there  was  so  entire 
an  absence  of  those  bitter  personal  and  party 
animosities  which  divert  attention  from  material 
interests,  and  prevent  co-cperation  for  the  public 
good. 

I  could  quote  also  froia  the  essaj-s  written 
at  that  time  by  the  member  for  South  Lanark 
(Mr.  MoRUis),  the  Solicitor  General  East 
(Hon.  Mr.  Langevin),  and  the  late  JonN 
Sheridan  IIogan,  to  shew  the  unprece- 
dented progress  which  was  being  made  by 
Canada  at  that  time.  And  what  was  the 
first  tiling  to  mar  that  prosperity?  I  wish  to 
call  the  attention  of  honora'le  gcntlemcu  to 
the  fact,  that  the  first  step  in  bringing  about 
the  embarrassment  we  are  now  laborinir 
under,  was  the  repearof  the  Usury  laws.  In 
the  first  place,  the  bill  of  the  honorable 
member  for  South  Oxford  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown) 
in  1853,  took  away  the  penalty  attached  to 
lending  money  at  usurious  rates.  JMoney  was 
then  got  freely — farmers  and  others  borrowed 
heavily — and  we  commenced  our  downward 
career.  Afterwards  all  restrictions  on  the 
lending  of  money  were  taken  oif.  At  fir.st 
people  could  get  money  at  six  per  cent.,  but 
afterwards  capital  came  in  from  abroad,  and 
the  country  was  flooded  with  money,  but  at 
unlimited  interest.  I  appeal  to  honorable 
gentlemen,  who  represent  the  farming  por- 
tions of  Upper  Canada — I  appeal  to  honor- 
able members  for  Lower  Canada,  if  they 
can  ri.se  in  their  places  and  say  that  the 
condition  of  this  country  at  present  is  not 
deplorable  ;  that  there  is  not  an  amount  ol 
private  indebtedness  which  is  frightful  to  con- 
template '{  And  why  is  this  'i  It  is  because 
so  many  are  borrowing  money  on  account  of 
the  facility  of  obtaining  it  at  liigh  rates; 
then,  getting  embarrassed,  they  borrow  for 
three  or  four  years  more  at  15  or  20  per 
cent;  next  they  have  to  borrow  at  oU  or  40 
per  cent,  and  finally  are  stripped  of  their 
property  and  ruined. 

Mr.  A.  MACKExVZlK— Does  the  honor- 
able gintleinan  want  an  answer  to  the  ajipeal 
he  made  a  mcnnent  ago  i* 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Ccrtuiuly. 


Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— Well,  I  have  to 
say  for  one,  that  while  the.e  is  a  considerable 
amount  of  money  borrowed  in  the  part  of  the 
country  which  1  represent  my.sclf,  there  is 
an  amount  cf  accumulated  wealth  there 
tenfold  what  it  was  at  the  time  the  honorable 
gentleman  has  referred  to ;  and  there  is  not 
anything  like  that  amount  borrowed  now 
that  there  was  at  that  time.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  STIHTON. —  I  have  no  licsitation  in 
endorsing  th^.t  statement,  as  applicable  also 
to  tike  part  of  the  country  which  I  represent. 

Mr.  a.  MA.CKENZIE— And  I  should 
have  added  that  money  can  be  borrowed  at 
lower  rates  now  than  at  the  time  referred 
to. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— Well,  it 
appears  that  I  have  the  testimony  of  two 
honorable  gentlemen  against  mc.  As  regards 
the  statement  of  my  honorable  friend  who 
comes  from  the  Oil  Springs,  we  can  easily 
understand  why  money  has  flowed  in  there, 
where  they  sell  a  hundred  acres  for  a  million 
of  dollars — and  why,  at  the  time  his  section 
of  country  has  become  rich,  other  parts  of  the 
country  may  remain  poor.  (Hear,  hear.) 
At  the  time  the  ur^ury  laws  were  repealed, 
I  had  the  honor,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  be  in  the 
seat  which  you  noi\  occupy,  and  I  Iia ! 
therefore  no  opportunity  of  urging  my  oppo- 
sition to  the  bill  thou  brought  before  the 
House  by  the  honorable  member  for  South 
Oxford  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  with  all  that 
energy  and  earnestness  which  characterises 
that  honorable  gentleman.  But  whenever 
the  attempt  was  subsequently  made  to  restore 
the  usury  laws,  or  to  rcimposc  the  restric- 
tions on  the  rate  of  interest,  my  vote  will 
always  be  found  to  have  been  with  those  who 
wore  opposed  to  what  is  called  free  trade  in 
money,  and  to-day  I  feel  more  satisfied  than 
ever  that  it  is  the  repeal  of  the  usury  laws 
which  ha«  brought  about  a  large  amount  of 
the  depression  and  tiie  difliculties  under 
which  the  country  now  suffers.  It  is  true 
that  for  two  or  three  years  after  the  repeal 
of  the  usury  laws,  the  country  was  pros- 
perous. Property  was  valued  at  enormous 
rates;  large  amounts  were  borrowed  from 
the  Municipal  Loan  l''und,  and  were  spent 
on  local  improvements  generally,  yielding  no 
return  whatever.  Then  there  Wcro  largo 
sums  borrowed  from  the  difi'erent  moneyed 
corjTVirations  that  came  into  the  country — 
such  as  the  Canada  iiOnn  and  (Kdit  Com- 
pany—  the  Trust  and  Loan  Con.pany — and 
the'  various  insurance  »'onij)anit's  that  arc 
daily  iuvestiug  their    surplus  funds  iu  valu- 


7S9 


able  property  in  this  country.  Where  does 
that  luoney  go  ?  It  does  cot  remain  here.  It 
is  drained  off  in  the  dividends  of  the  bank?, 
and  of  the  various  companies  that  arc  lending 
at  usurious  rates  of  interest.  It  is  going 
out  of  the  country.  And  what  do  we  get  in 
return  ?  More  facilities  for  borrowing. 
And  I  ask  honorable  gentlemen  from  Upper 
Canada — I  do  not  know  how  far  this  is  applic- 
able to  Lower  Canada — whether  it  is  not 
true  that  an  immense  number  of  our  youth, 
now  in  the  armies  of  the  United  States,  have 
gone  away  because  the  properties  held  by 
their  fathers  are  so  heavily  mortgaged  that 
they  had  no  hope  of  •  retrieving  them. 
Speaking  for  my  own  section,  I  can  say  that 
there  is  scarcely  a  young  man  who  caD  now 
look  forward,  as  was  the  rule  ten  or  twelve 
years  ago,  to  succeeding  his  father  in  the 
family  homestead.  I  say  then  that  this  gene- 
rally depressed  state  of  the  country,  without 
any  prospect  of  relief,  causes  a  large  amount 
of  uneasiness  in  the  public  mind.  And  there 
is  no  doubt  that  a  good  deal  of  the  feeling 
in  favor  of  the  scheme  which  honorable  gen- 
tleman take  credit  for,  is  influenced  by  the 
desire  to  look  for  some  change,  as  a  reliei 
from  the  depression  under  which  we  labour. 
And  I  am  not  without  authority  for  the  state- 
ment I  am  now  makins;.  I  shall  read  from  an 
article  published  only  a  day  or  two  ago.  by 
one,  whose  name  I  am  sure  is  well  known  to 
the  commercial  community  generally — who 
has  contributed  more  than  any  one  else  to 
the  statistics  of  our  trade  and  commerce  by 
his  labors  in  Toronto,  and  subsequently  in 
Montreal — I  allude  to  the  Editor  of  the 
Trade  Review.  I  shall  read  from  that  article, 
and  shall  then  ask  the  House  to  say  whether 
I  have  been  exaggerating.  lam  now  speaking 
more  r>f  the  condition  of  our  farmers,  and 
those  who  have  been  induced  to  borrow  on 
account  of  the  facilities  aftbrded  for  getting 
money ;  I  shall  come  presently  to  speak  of 
the  trade  and  commerce  of  the  country,  and 
shall  prove  from  the  same  source  that  the 
statistics  of  our  trade  shew  both  to  be  in  a 
deplorable  condition.  I  do  this  to  show  that 
we  should  not  blindly  incur  an  immense 
liability  in  the  matter  of  defence,  when  we 
have  no  means  of  meeting  the  outlay  that 
may  be  imposed  upon  us.  When  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  G-eneral  (Hon.  Mr.  Langevin)  and 
the  member  for  St.  John's  (Mr.  Bourassa) 
had  a  race  every  year  to  see  who  would  be 
foremost  iu  bringing  in  his  bill  to  reduce  the 
rate  of  interest,  the  member  for  South  Oxford 
(Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  of  course  insisted  on  the 


maintenance  of  his  pet  scheme,  which,  in  my 
opinion,  has  done  more  harm  to  the  country 
than  anything  else.  I  regret  that  the 
House  should  have  agreed  so  far  with  the 
honorable  gentleman  in  maintaining  that 
policy.  As  I  said  before,  in  a  country  like 
this,  where  our  wealth  is  in  our  lands,  where 
we  own  but  little  money — when  our  crops 
fail,  how  can  we  meet  the  extravagant 
demands  made  upon  us  by  those  from  whom 
we  borrow  ?  But  I  will  proceed  to  read  what 
the  Trade  Review  of  February  last  says  of 
our  present  laws  on  the  subject  of  usury  : — 

The  framers  of  these  laws  evidently  intended 
them,  we  think,  to  protect  the  trader  and  the 
farmer  from  the  extortions  of  money  lenders, 
and,  as  such,  they  may  have  been  suited  for  the 
time,  when  banking  was  solely  in  the  hands  of 
one  or  two  corporations,  which,  of  course,  were 
monopolists.  But  competition  has  now  fairly 
effaced  all  possibility  of  oppression  from  such  a 
source.  These  laws,  in  fact,  instead  of  guarding 
the  interests  they  were  intended  to  protect,  only 
serve  to  drive  their  representatives  into  the  ene- 
my's quarters,  and  leave  them  at  the  mercy  of  the 
oppressor.  Mercantile  paper,  which  our  banks 
are  not  willing  to  di.scouiit  at  seven  per  cent.,  is 
handed  by  the  needy  trader — who  is  in  want  of 
money  to  meet  the  pressing  demands  of  some 
creditor,  or  to  retire  some  notes  falling  due — to  a 
broker,  by  whom,  perhaps,  after  getting  a  bond 
over  part  of  the  trader's  property,  the  paper  is 
discounted  at  a  rate  more  nearly  assimilated  to 
that  at  which  respectable  bankers  are  selling 
"  current  fund"  drafts  upon  New  York  (say  fifty 
per  cent,  discount)  than  a  fair  rate  for  commercial 
paper.  This  is  the  kind  of  protection  our  usury 
laws  afford.  Rather  a  rude  nurse,  we  should  call 
them,  for  our  undeveloped  ''resources,  and  our 
infant  manufactures." 

That  is  the  language  of  the  reviewer,  one 
whose  business  it  is  to  review,  not  only  the 
monetary  condition  and  the  commerce  of  the 
country,  but  every  branch  of  our  industry 
and  trade,  and  he  seals  with  his  judgment 
the  statements  which  have  been  made  as  tu 
the  deplorable  condition  into  which  the 
existing  usury  laws,  in  this  and  in  former 
years,  have  brought  the  country.  That  is 
one  of  the  consequences  of  free  trade  in 
money'.  The  honorable  member  for  South 
Oxford  in  answer  to  a  remark  from  this 
side,  said  this  afternoon  that  the  commer- 
cial interests  of  Upper  Canada  were  in  a 
most  prosperous  condition. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  did  not  say  '^  a 
most  prosperous  condition."  What  I  said 
was  this — that  the  honorable  member  for 
Chateauguay  had  exaggerated  the  difficulties 
now   existing  in  Upper  Canada ;    that  the 


740 


troubles  in  the  United  States,  short  crops  and 
other  causes  had  caused  a  depression  in 
Upper  Canada;  but  that  this,  I  considered, 
was  merely  temporary,  and  that  with  one  or 
two  good  crops  all  this  would  disappear. 

Hon.  J.  S.  iMACDONALD— But  these 
are  hard  truths  which  I  have  been  reading. 
And  I  think  it  is  better  to  tell  frankly  our 
condition,  than  to  base  our  estimates  on  a 
condition  which  we  do  not  really  enjoy.  Let 
us  not  send  out  extravagant  statements  about 
our  situation  v/hich  will  not  .stand  the  test  of 
an  impartial  scrutiny.  Let  us  rather  make 
known  here  and  in  the  Mother  Country  our 
real  resources,  than  make  false  representa- 
tions of  a  state  of  prosperity  which  does  not 
exist.  Then  this  is  our  prospect,  as  stated 
by  the  editor  of  the  Tratle  Review^  and 
honorable  gentlemen  must  remember  that 
our  present  prospects  have  a  great  deal  to  do 
with  the  course  thoy  should  take  in  legis- 
lating on  the  i'uLure  constitution  of  our  gov- 
ernment : — 

A  very  general  degree  of  anxiety  is  apparent 
among  mercantile  men  as  to  the  prospects  of  a 
healthy  trade  during  the  coming  season.  There 
are  so  many  untUvourable  circumstances  combi- 
ning to  affect  our  commerce,  that  this  anxiety  is 
by  no  means  without  a  cause.  Excessive  importa- 
tions last  year,  implying  laige  internal  and  foreign 
indebtedness;  decreased  exports,  equally  implying 
inabi  ity  to  readily  reduce  this  indebtedness,  are 
facts  that  in  themselves  are  sufficient  to  create  a 
marked  change  in  the  immediate  condition  of 
trade.  There  can  be  no  doubt  but  that  the  grain 
crop  throughout  \\''estern  Canada  falls  short  of 
even  diniinished  expectation,  the  fine  sleighing  of 
the  past  two  months  having  failed  to  induce  deli- 
veries to  any  large  extent  by  farmeis.  Taking 
into  account,  however,  that  throughout  the  au- 
tumn the  deliveries  were  insigniiicant,  it  was 
generally  anticipated  that  during  the  winter  the 
amount  of  produce  to  be  brought  out  would  be 
very  large.  But  unfortunately,  notwithstanding 
a  continuance  of  excellent  roads,  a  very  great 
pressure  for  money,  and  a  fair  demand  at  mode- 
rate rates,  at  no  point  in  all  the  province  have 
the  receipts  yet  reached  those  of  previous  years. 
The  only  inlerence  is,  that  the  crop  is  not  only  a 
short  one,  but  that  the  money  being  realised  for 
it  falls  far  short  of  general  expectation.  The 
result  must  be  to  materially  lessen  the  debt-paying 
power  of  the  ])eople,  and  render  them  less  likely 
to  make  new  purchases.  Not  only  will  this  be 
the  internal  effect,  but  when  it  is  understood  that 
one  section  of  the  province  will  rocjnire  for  con- 
sumption very  nearly  all  the  surplus  produce  of 
the  other,  the  difficulty  to  discharge  foreign  in- 
debtedness is  intensified." 

Mi».  Speaker,  I  again  quote  from  the 
Trade  Review.     It  tolls  U3  that   the  pro- 


bable excess  in  Upper  Canada  wiH  be  more 
than  swallowed  up  in  Lower  Canada.  The 
article  goes  on  to  say; — 

Another  cause  for  anxiety  is  the  general  con- 
dition in  which  the  retail  trade  of  the  country  is 
found.  The  numerous  failures  that  are  daily 
occurring,  and  the  wretched  dividends  which  real 
estates  are  likely  to  pay,  indicate  a  condition  of 
things  not  at  all  desirable.  Not  only  is  there 
constantly  apparent  a  manifest  lack  of  capacity, 
but,  as  v.'e  remarked  last  week,  a  degree  of  ras- 
cality is  being  developed,  which  cannot  fail  to  be 
highly  injurious  to  general  confidence.  We  do 
not  now  propose  to  enumerate  the  causes  for 
these  frequent  casualties,  or  point  out  the  policy 
of  trade  that  has  induced  them :  it  is  sufficient  to 
say,  that  recent  events  make  it  more  than  usually 
incumbent  upon  importers  to  scan  their  credits 
very  closely;  to  lessen  large  amounts  in  few 
hands ;  and  to  use  every  legitimate  precaution  for 
safety  rather  than  profit.  We  need  hardly  another 
cause  to  account  for  the  anxiety  of  merchants  as 
to  the  future.  But  another  cause  we  have  in  the 
restricted  policy  which  the  banks  wdl  of  necessity 
be  compelled  to  pursue.  All  that  we  have  been 
attempting  to  describe  will  act  with  far  greater 
force  upon  the  banks  than  upon  individuals.  A 
small  movement  of  produce  implies  an  equally 
small  circulation  of  bills;  any  lack  of  confidence 
in  the  retail  trade  will  hasten  the  policy  which 
has  been  for  some  time  evident,  viz.,  the  con- 
traction into  large  cities  of  the  means  of  the 
leading  institutions.  Even  in  the  ordinary  con- 
dition of  affairs,  the  banks  would  not  do  other 
than  contract  in  a  year  of  short  crops  and  low 
prices.  But  another  cause  for  contraction  will  be 
the  contemplated  withdrawal  of  Southern  gold 
now  in  deposit.  The  passage  of  the  Alien  Bill 
may  have  one  of  two  elFects, — 1st,  it  may  cause 
the  withdrawal  of  a  considerable  sum  of  gold  held 
by  the  banks  ;  or  2nd,  it  will  certainly  iiecessitate 
preparation  for  such  a  withdrawal,  should  it  even 
never  take  place.  Either  consequence  implies  a 
conversion  into  bullion  of  some  property  not  now 
in  that  shape.  The  banks  now  unitedly  liold  five 
and  a-half  millions  of  dollars  in  gob',  against  which 
there  is  a  circulation  of  notes  of  over  nine  mil- 
lions. This  proportion  will  doubtless  lie  main- 
tained, and  any  considerable  drafts  for  deposits 
will  be  met  by  bills  of  exchange  on  England,  the 
banks  either  using  their  credit  there,  which  they 
can  do  with  interest  at  five  per  cent.,  or  they  can 
sell  the  sceuritios  in  which  their  foreign  deposits 
are  invested. 

Sir,  there  is  the  future,  drawn  only  last 
month,  of  the  condition  of  Upper  Canada — 
short  crops  and  nothing  to  export,  and 
nothing:  staring  us  in  the  face  but  actual 
distress  and  actual  want.  Tbcn,  if  that  is 
imminent,  docs  it  not  behove  us  to  regard 
clo.sely  the  conduct  of  the  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  i*  We  ought  to  admonish 
them  not   to  go  heedlessly  and  needlessly 


741 


into  extravagance  which  this  country  cannot 
bear.  (Hear,  hear.)  Tlic  effect  of  tliis 
legislation,  the  unhinging  of  the  public 
mind,  and  the  high  expectations  formed  of 
the  advantages  which  are  to  result  from  the 
adoption  of  this  scheme  of  a  new  Constitu- 
tion— all  these  things  have  contributed  to 
make  t!ie  people  unliappy  and  to  drive  the 
population  out  of  the  country.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  put  it  to  the  House,  whether  the  honorable 
gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches  have  noc 
given,  as  the  main  excuse  for  pressing 
the  Coafedoration  scheme,  the  imminent 
danger  which  surrouuds  us.  Does  the 
emigrant  choose  that  country  where 
he  cannot  profitably  invest  his  capital;  where 
he  cannot  fiud  profitable  employment  on  his 
arrival,  nor  lands  in  convenient  situations, 
which  he  can  convert  to  immediate  use, 
where  extravagance  has  been  inducad  by 
the  facilities  afforded  fur  borrowing  and  for 
wild  speculatiofts;  and  above  all,  where  he 
expects  to  be  called  upon  to  perform  mili- 
tary duties  in  the  face  of  a  powerful  enemy 
"immediately  on  .the  borders  of  his  new 
home  ?  I  think  that  if,  in  the  face  of  all 
these  circumstances,  the  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  pledge  themselves  to  an 
excessive  outlay,  we  ought  to  be  told  now 
what  are  the  prospects  in  store  for  the 
people  of  Canaaa.  (Hear,  hear.)  But,  sir, 
they  are  silent  on  that  point.  "We  know 
this,  hox^  ever,  from  past  experience — ^We 
know  that  it  will  be  impossible  for  us  to 
regulate  the  conducto  f  the  honorable  gentle- 
men on  the  Treasury  benches,  when  they 
get  to  Downing-street,  surrounded  by  the 
influences  which  will  meet  them  there.  Sir, 
we  have  occasion  for  alarm.  We  remember 
that  when  Hon.  Mr.  HiNCKSwentto  England 
in  1854,  notwithstanding  we  had  voted 
one  million  eight  hundred  sterling  in  1852 
for  the  Grand  Trunk,  he  returned  to 
Canada  just  in  time  to  call  Parliament 
within  a  day  of  the  prescribed  period  ap- 
pointed for  its  meeting,  and  proposed,  as 
the  important  measure  for  that  session. 
£900,000  stg.  additional ;  and  this  vote  was 
forced  throuo;h  Parliament  durinsr  the  fol- 
lowing  session,  when  it  transpired,  for  the 
first  time,  that  the  agreement  to  advance 
this  sum  out  of  the  public  exchequer  had 
been  entered  into  by  Mr.  Hincks  and  Lord 
Elgin  whilst  in  London.  We  are  now 
called  upon  to  give  these  gentlemen  a  vote 
of  credit ;  to  give  them  the  control  of  a 
large  sum  of  money,  to  spend  as  they  think 


proper  ;  to  allow  them  to  betake  themselves 
to  EngLmd  to  bind  us  to  an  agreement  for 
all  time  to  come.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  see, 
sir,  day  after  day,  as  I  have  said  before, 
how  gentlemen  come  to  this  House  and  dis- 
regard the  pledges  they  have  made  their 
constituents.  Once  in  their  places  here, 
they  forget  the  vows  by  which  they  ob- 
tained them.  I  could  give  a  long  list,  in 
my  experience  of  a  quarter  of  a  century  in 
this  House,  of  members  who  have  betrayed 
the  confidence  reposed  in  them  by  the 
people  who  elected  them.  (Hear,  hear.)  Is 
it  vain  to  appeal  to  members  now  to  control 
the  power  the  Government  are  asking  from 
us,  after  we  have  protested  against  this  sort 
of  thing  year  after  year ;  when  we  are  re- 
fused those  explanations  which  should  be 
given  to  this  House ;  when  the  country  is 
deeply  embarrassed,  I  fear,  beyond  redemp- 
tion ?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  to  apologise  to 
the  House  for  the  length  of  time  during  which 
I  have  occupied  its  attention.  But  I  hope 
the  House  will  believe  this,  that  I  am  not 
•actuated  by  any  factious  motives  in  this 
matter.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  stand  here  as  one 
who  has  no  vote  of  his  to  recall ;  as  one  who 
has  always  maintained  that,  under  our  Con- 
stitution, as  it  is,  prosperity  and  enjoyment 
might  be  secured,  with  all  their  concomitants, 
were  we  free  from  demagogueism,  winch 
has  produced  a  very  large  proportion  of  the 
difficulties  by  which  we  are  suirounded. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  think  I  have  demonstrated 
that  there  is  sufficient  cause  for  alarm  to 
make  us  anxious  for  the  future.  For  all 
we  know,  we  may  find  ourselves  in  a  very 
awkward  predicament  when  the  question 
turns  upon  Confederation  or  annexation.  I 
sincerely  regret  to  notice  the  prevalence  of 
.  this  tone  of  annexation,  and  I  say  that,  since 
the  honorable  gentlemen  opposite  got  on  the 
Treasury  benches,  this  tone  has  been  much 
more  decided  on  this  question  than  ever 
before.  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir,  I  need  only 
refer  to  the  declaration  of  the  honorable 
Premier  in  the  other  House,  who  stated  the 
other  day  that  we  were  on  an  inclined  plane 
towards  annexation,  but  which  the  Confeder- 
ation scheme  was  calculated  to  arrest.  I 
regret  also,  as  much  as  any  one,  the  position 
in  which  we  are  placed,  and  that,  with  such 
a  large  population,  we  are,  like  mendicants, 
knocking  at  the  door  of  the  Lower  Prov- 
inces, imploring  them  against  their  will  to 
step  in  to  save  us,  forsooth,  from  destruc- 
tion.    (Hear.)     It  is  no  wonder  that  the 


742 


people  there  refuse  to  cast  their  lot  with 
ours,  after  hearing  the  opinion  the  honor- 
able gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
have  80  frequently  expressed  of  each  other. 
And  what  will  be  the  consequence  if  an  attempt 
is  made  to  coerce  them  ?  Why,  they  will  be 
like  the  damsel  who  is  forced  to  marry  against 
her  will,  and  who  will,  in  the  end,  be  most 
likely  to  elope  with  some  one  else.  (Ilear, 
hear,  and  laughter.}  With  the  tricks  which 
the  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches  know 
so  well  to  play,  we  will  only  hasten  the  day 
when  the  Lower  Provinces  will  perhaps  en- 
deavor to  withdraw  from  the  Mother  Coun- 
try and  seek  another  alliance.  I  resume  my 
seat,  sir,  regretting  the  manner  in  which 
the  Government  have  tried  to  stifle  the  full 
and  free  discussion  of  this  great  question. 
(Cheers.) 

Mr.  COWAN — I  cannot  agree  altogether, 
Mr.  Speaker,  with  the  honorable  member 
for  Cornwall  as  to  the  causes  which  led  to 
the  prosperity  of  this  country  from  1854  to 
1858,  nor  yet  with  the  picture  he  draws  of 
our  present  circumstances.     That  hon.  gen- 
tleman attributes  our  prosperity  to  the  repeal 
of  the  Usury  laws.     1  do  not  doubt  but  that 
the  repeal  of  the  Usury  laws  had  some  eJBFect, 
but  there  were  other  causes  which  had  much 
more   to   do   in    producing  that    prosperity 
than  the  repeal  of  the  Usury  laws.     In  the 
first  place  we  imported  money  by  the  million 
to   build   our   railways,    and  in  the   second 
place,  not  only  had   we  abundant   harvests, 
but   short    crops    in    other    countries   gave 
us  fabulous  prices  for  everything  we  raised. 
Instead  of  eighty  or  ninety  cents,  wheat  was 
worth   two  dollars    a  bushel  and    upwards, 
with  millers  scouring  the  country  with  teams 
to  c;in-y  it  from  the  barn  to  the  mill.     Such 
a  tide  of  prosperity,  Mr.  Speaker,  never  set 
in    on  any  country ;  the   result  was  that  it 
unhinged  the    sober    calculation    of  almost 
everybody,  and  we  ran  into  debt  individually, 
municipally,  and  provincially,  as  if  pay-day 
had  never  been  to  cuiue.     Wcllto-do  farm- 
ers, with  perhaps  a  thousand  dollars  or  two 
in  their  pocket,  thought  they  might  purchase 
an   adjoining  i'arm,  but   it  was  well   if  they 
escaped  with  the    loss  of  the   money   paid 
down.     In   many   instances    the    homestead 
was  sacrificed  ere  the  new  I'arm  was  paid  for, 
while  houses  planned   and    built  then  have 
not  yet  received  their  furniture,     liut,  Mr. 
Speaker,  if  our  prosperity   was   unprece- 
dented, so  were  our  reverses.     The  commer- 
cial crisis  of  1858  came  on  us  when  we  were 


The   consequence   is   that  the 
in  a  great  measure  recovered 


almost  without  a  crop.  The  disastrous  frost 
of  the  11th  of  June  destroyed  the  one-half, 
if  not  three-fourths,  of  the  fall  wheat. — 
Spring  wheat — all  except  the  Fife  sort,  then 
but  sown — was  so  blighted  a.s  in  many 
instances  not  to  be  worth  the  cutting.  And 
many  a  farmer  was  not  only  destitute  of 
potatoes  to  eat,  but  had  even  to  purchase  his 
next  year's  seed.  The  only  article  from 
which  numerous  fixrmers  got  any  return  was 
surplus  stock,  which  that  season  brought 
fair  prices — lean  as  well  as  fat — in  the 
American  markets.  But  these  reverses  were 
not  without  a  salutary  efi"ect.  All  speculation 
was  instantly  stopped.  Farmers  began  to 
practice  anew  frugality  and  economy,  and 
turned  their  attention  to  rearing  stock  as  well 
as  cereals, 
country  has 

from  the  shock  of  1858,  and,  notwithstanding 
rather  shoit  crops  and  comparatively  low 
prices,  I  cannot  help  thinking  that  the  hon. 
member  ibr  Cornwall  takes  altogether  too 
gloomy  a  view,  of  the  state  of  the  country. 
JJut  though  I  cannot  coincide  with  the 
gloomy  views  of  the  member  ior  Cornwall, 
neither  can  I  accept  the  bright  prospect  ot 
the  member  for  South  Wellington,  as  being 
descriptive  of  the  agricultural  interest, 
generally,  throughout  the  province.  It  is 
all  very  well  for  my  hon.  friend,  who  resides 
in  one  of  the  most  fertile  counties  iu  Canada, 
and  whose  farmers  devote  their  attention  to 
rearing  stock — stock  second  to  none  in  the 
province — to  talk  of  agricultural  prosperity. 
13ut  in  less  favored  sections  it  cannot  be 
denied  that  there  is  much  individual 
suffering,  caused  by  the  midge  and  the 
unprecedented  drought  of  las^t  s^ummer. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  .Mr.  LAFKAMBOISE  said— Mr. 
Speaker,  when,  a  few  nights  ago,  I  had  the 
honor  to  assert  in  this  Hou.«e  that  the  Gov- 
ernment would  adopt  every  means  to  cause 
their  scheme  of  Confederation  to  be  passed 
without  amendment,  and  would  have  recourse 
to  motions  of  the  nature  of  that  which  is 
engaging  our  attention  at  the  j)re.«ont  time,  I 
certainly  did  not  expect  that  my  prediction 
would  be  so  soon  accohiplished,  and  I  ac- 
knowledge that  I  did  not  believe  that  it  was 
so  well  tbunded  as  it  has  proved  to  bo.  What 
do  wo  see  Mr.  Spe.vkkr?  We  sec  an  ox- 
ample  of  the  most  deplorably  restrictive  ac- 
tion which  can  possibly  be  displayed  by  a 
government.  After  delivering,  to  satiety, 
speeches   lasting   several  hours,    speeches   to 


743 


which  we  have  listened  with  the  greatest  pos- 
sible attention,  the  Administration,  alarmed 
at  the  agitation  which  is  arising  everywhere 
throughout  Lower  Canada,  and  dreading  re- 
action, takes  every  means  to  prevent  discus- 
sion, and  to  cause  the  House  to  vote  without 
allowing  it  an  opportunity  of  proposing  amend- 
ments to  the  informal  scheme  which  it  is  de- 
sirous of  imposing  upon  the  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Among  those  who  were  witnesses  of 
the  unworthy  behavior  of  some  of  the  hon- 
orable Ministers,  who  now  sit  on  the  opposite 
side  of  the  House,  at  the  time  of  the  cele- 
brated "  Double  Shuffle  "  of  1858;  among 
those  who  saw  those  men  record  an  oath  at 
ten  o'clock  at  night  which  they  violated  the 
very  next  day — among  those,  I  say,  the  breach 
of  faith,  of  which  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  has  just  given  so  sad  an  example 
to  this  House,  will  excite  no  surprise,  for 
those  gentlemen  have  long  accustomed  us  to 
such  unworthy  actions  on  the  part  of  a  Min- 
istry which  has  lost  all  sense  of  honor  and  of 
the  respect  which  they  owe  to  the  House. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  evident,  Mr.  Speaker, 
that  the  Government  is  afraid  of  amendments 
which  might  be  proposed  by  the  Opposition 
to  their  scheme,  and  of  the  vote  which  would 
be  taken  on  those  amendments;  discussion 
alarms  them,  and  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
for  Lower  Canada  dreads  nothing  so  much 
.  as  an  appeal  to  the  people,  notwithstanding 
that  he  would  appear  to  hold  in  contempt  the 
protests  which  come  to  us  in  the  shape  of 
petitions  from  all  tLe  counties  in  the  district 
of  Montreal.  (Hear,  hear.)  Yes,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, these  numerous  petitions  prove  to  us  that 
several  honorable  members  of  this  House  do 
not  represent  here  the  opinion  of  their  con- 
stituents in  respect  of  t!ie  new  Constitution 
which  it  is  wished  to  impose  upon  us.  There 
are  representatives  here  who  are  ready  to  vote 
in  favor  of  the  scheme  ot  Confederation  in 
spite  of  earnest  protestations  fro'.n  the  coun- 
ties for  which  they  were  elected.  I  shall  con- 
tent myself  with  mentioning  a  single  one — I 
allujle  to  the  honorable  member  lor  St.  Hya- 
cinthe.  Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  honorable 
member  has  declared  that  he  will  vote  ag  inst 
the  appeul  to  the  people,  and  in  favor  of  Con- 
federation, notwithstanding  that  out  of  two 
thousand  iuhabllants  wlioni  he  represents,  or 
rather  does  not  represent,  in  this  House, 
seventeen  hundred  have  formally  enjoined 
him,  by  a  petition  signed  with  their  names,  to 
adopt  the  contrary  course.   (Hear,  hear.) 

A  VOICE — How  many  of  those  are  elec- 
tors ? 


Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— They  are 
all  electors ;  and  if  you  like,  you  may  con- 
vince yourself  of  the  truth  of  what  I  state  by 
examininsr  the  signatures,  which  are  those  of 
duly  qualified  electors  who  voted  at  the  elec- 
tion of  the  honorable  member  for  St.  Hy- 
acinthe.  I  say  then,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the 
imposing  and  significant  movement  which  is 
now  eroini!;  on  in  Lower  Canada  alarms  the 
Ministry,  and  that  if  the  Lower  Canadian 
representatives  obey  the  popular  voice,  and  do 
not  disregard  it  as  some  of  them  appear  dis- 
posed to  do,  they  will  vote  against  the  motion 
proposed  by  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
for  Upper  Canada;  for  if  those  honorable 
members  support  this  motion,  they  will  simply 
declare  that  the/  do  not  wish  for  amendments 
to  the  scheme,  that  they  are  opposed  to  an 
appeal  to  the  people  and  to  any  alteration 
whatever  of  the  scheme.  The  other  night 
the  honorable  member  for  jMontmoreucy  de- 
clared in  this  House  that  this  signified  nothing; 
that  a  representative  was  not  bound  to  respect 
the  wishes  of  his  constituents,  and  that  we 
were  at  perfect  liberty  to  vote  as  we  might 
think  fit  on  any  measure  whatsoever,  and  espe- 
cially on  the  scheme  of  Confederation.  At  all 
events,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  shall  venture  to  hold 
a  different  opinion  from  that  of  the  honorable 
member,  and  I  say  that  every  man  who  shews 
a  proper  respect  for  his  position  in  this  House 
cannot  vote  contrary  to  the  expressed  wishes 
of  his  constituents ;  it  is  a  doctrine  which  was 
never  called  in  question  until  the  honorable 
member  for  Montmorency  considered  that  he 
might  cast  a  doubt  upon  the  correctness  of  it. 
AVell,  a  fact  that  none  will  venture  to  deny  is, 
that  several  members  |)romised  their  consti- 
tuents that  they  would  vote  in  favor  of  an 
appeal  to  the  people  ;  and,  by  compelling  them 
to-day  to  accept  the  motion  of  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  for. Upper  Canada,  every 
chance  of  their  doing  so  is  taken  away. 
Placed  as  they  are  in  this  dilemma,  the  mem- 
bers who  made  that  promise,  and  who  at  the 
same  time  are  in  favor  of  the  Government, 
ought  not  to  hesitate  as  to  the  course  to  be 
pursued  ;  they  ought  to  throw  out  this  motion, 
for,  if  it  should  be  adopted,  Confederation  will 
at  once  become  an  accomplished  fact,  and  the 
appeal  to  the  people  will  have  to  be  given  up. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  Honorable  Attorney 
General  for  Lower  Canada  has  reproached  the 
Opposition  with  pressing  the  adjournment  of 
the  House  at  ten,  and  half-past  ten  o'clock  at 
night ;  but  let  him  remember  that  he  himself 
pressed  an  adjournment  at  the  same  hour,  in 
order   to  give   his   colleague,   the   honorable 


744 


member  for   Dorcliester,   an   opportunity  of 
speaking  on  the  following  evening. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  moved 
the  adjournment  at  a  later  hour  of  the  even- 
ing ;  the  clock  on  your  side  marked  a  later 
hour  than  half  past  ten. 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— Well,  I  can 
say  that  the  Ministerial  clock  shewed  the  hour 
which  I  have  mentioned,  and  the  two  clocks 
generally  ugrce,  better  than  we  agree  our- 
selves. (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  In  con- 
clusion, Mr.  Speaker,  I  have  no  hesitation 
in  saying  that  our  parliamentary  history  shews 
no  precedent  for  so  unworthy  a  proceeding  as 
the  present.  I  say  that  it  is  the  intention  of  the 
Government  to  send  their  measure  to  England 
to  receive  the  Imperial  sanction  before  the 
people  of  this  country  have  had  time  to  judge 
of  it,  and  before  their  representatives  have 
had  an  opportunity  of  amending  it  in  any 
way  whatever.  This  measure,  or  this  new 
Constitution,  after  it  shall  have  so  received 
the  sanction  of  the  Imperial  Government,  will 
have  to  be  accepted  by  Lower  Canada,  whether 
it  suits  her  or  not.  (Hear,  hear.)  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  venture  to  hope  that  greater  in- 
dependence will  be  exhibited  by  our  Lower 
Canadian  representatives  than  our  Ministers 
arc  willing  to  believe  will  be  exhibited,  and 
that  our  Lower  Canadian  members  will  not 
consent  to  allow  themselves  to  be  so  led  by 
the  nose  by  their  leaders.  We  were  promised, 
at  the  commencement  of  this  debate,  that  all 
the  members  should  have  an  opportunity  of 
expressing  their  views  on  the  scheme,  and  of 
making  amendments  to  it,  should  they  think 
proper  to  do  iio;  and  now,  treading  all  their 
promises  under  foot,  the  Ministry  thus  lays 
its  ultimatum  before  us  :  you  must  adopt  the 
scheme  which  we  submit  to  you,  without 
attempting  to  change  a  single  iota.  For  my 
part,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  consider  that  I  should 
bo  failing  in  the  performance  of  my  duty  as  a 
representative  if  1  did  not  record  my  protest 
against  sucli  conduct,  and  such  scandalous 
neglect  of  all  the  principles  of  responsible 
government.     (Applause.) 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  very  much  re- 
gret that  I  find  it  necessary  to  detain  the 
House,  even  lor  a  few  moments,  for  a  second 
time  on  the  same  day,  on  the  aiiina  subject; 
but  I  desire  to  repel,  in  the  strongest  manner, 
the  iii.=^inuation  that  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  has  cast  on  tliosc  hou.  gentlemen 
who  are  opposed  to  the  Confederation  scheme 
— the  charge  tliat  we  are  either  actuated  by 
feelings  tending  towards  the  annexation  of 
Canada  to  the  neighboring  republic,  or  else 


that  we  desire  to  offer  factious  opposition,  and 
that  we  have  no  good  motive  in  seeking  for 
delay  with  reference  to  the  consideration  of 
this  question.  Now,  speaking  for  myself,  I 
must  say  that  I  do  not  believe  that  there  is 
an  iionorable  gentleman  on  the  floor  of  this 
House,  or  even  within  the  length  and  breadth 
of  British  North  America,  who  would  less  de- 
sire to  see  any  change  in  the  constitutional 
relations  existing  between  these  provinces  and 
the  Mother  Country  than  myself.  (Hear, 
hear.)  In  my  opposition  to  the  scheme  I  am 
actuated  by  a  feeling,  that  adopting  it  in  the 
manner  in  which  it  is  now  proposed  to  be 
done  will  tend  more  to  drive  us  towards  that 
annexation,  which  is  held  up  as  such  a  bug- 
bear, than  anything  that  could  be  done  by 
honorable  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
in  half  a  century,  if  our  Constitution  were  al- 
lowed to  remain  as  it  is.  (Plear,  hear.)  Then, 
as  to  our  being  called  obstructionists,  I  would 
call  your  attention,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  the  cir- 
cumstances surrounding  this  debate.  In  the 
first  instance,  as  has  been  represented  by 
several  honorable  members,  it  was  proposed 
that  the  matter  should  be  considered  as  if  in 
Committee  of  the  Whole  ;  but  for-purposea  of 
preserving  order  and  convenience  for  transact- 
ing other  business,  that  the  Speaker  should 
remain  in  the  chair.  Though  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  West  does  not  consider  that 
proposition  in  the  same  light  as  it  was  under- 
stood on  this  side  of  the  House,  and  by  myself, 
yet  I  am  satisfied  that  the  intention  of  hou. 
gentlemen  in  proposing  it,  was  that  the  debate 
should  go  on  in  the  same  free  and  unrestrained 
manner,  due  order  being  preserved,  as  if  the 
Speaker  was  not  in  the  chair.  ( Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches 
then  proposed  that  they  should  have  the 
opportunity  of  laying  the  scheme  belbre  the 
House  and  the  country  in  as  full  and  care- 
ful a  manner  as  they  pleased — that  they  were  to 
take  their  own  time  to  do  this,  and  were  to  be 
allowed  to  speak  without  any  interruption. 
That  privilege  was  accorded  to  them  most 
heartily  and  cordially  by  the  Opposition. 
There  was  no  interruj)tion  whatever  from  this 
side  of  the  Ilou^e  during  the  whole  of  their 
five  long  speeches.  (U«ar,  hear.)  But  the 
very  moment  they  had  accomplished  their 
object,  and  wo  desired  to  have  exactly  the 
same  opportunity — that  of  lading  our  views 
bei'ore  tlie  House  and  the  country  in  the  same 
manner,  and  letting  the:n  follow  the  speeches 
ol"  the  honorable  goiitlonion  on  the  'J'roasury 
benches  in  proper  order — they  objected  in  the 
most  arbitrary  manner.     The  lion.  Attorney 


745 


General  East  claimed  the  right  to  reply  at 
once  to  every  speech  delivered  on  this  side  of 
the  House.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then  again  a 
motion  was  made  by  the  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
eral West  that  until  disposed  of,  the  con- 
sideration of  this  question  should  be  taken 
up  every  evening  at  half -past  seven  o'clock, 
and  that  was  at  once  concurred  in  on  our 
part.  In  a  very  short  time  afterwards  it  was 
proposed,  and  the  proposition  was  endorsed 
and  pressed  by  the  Government,  that  this 
solemn  agreement  siould  be  broken  up,  and 
the  whole  business  of  the  country  on  the  floor 
of  this  House  suspended  until  the  debate 
should  be  brought  to  a  close.  In  reference  to 
that,  I  did  oppose  the  course  pursued,  because 
I  did  not  think  it  was  for  the  interest  of  tlie 
country,  or  that  it  would  facilitate  the  busi- 
ness of  this  House.  We  find  that  several 
days  were  occupied  in  discussing  whether  that 
resolution  should  be  adopted  from  day  to 
day  or  not.  Who  is  responsible  for  that 
discussion  and  delay  ?  Was  it  hon.  gentlemen 
on  this  side  of  the  House,  who  desired  to 
carry  out  the  arrangement  proposed  by  the  Gov- 
ernment themselves,  or  was  it  the  hon.  gentle- 
men on  the  Treasury  benches,  who  sought  to 
break  up  the  agreement  that  had  been  entered 
into,  of  which  they  themselves  were  the 
authors  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  I  have  also,  Mr. 
Speaker,  in  this  connection,  to  make  my 
acknowledgments  to^he  Hon.  Attorney  Gen- 
er;il  West  for  the  very  elegant  compliment  he 
paid  the  honorable  member  for  Peel  and  my- 
self, in  characterising  us  as  the  "  shanghais  " 
from  their,  the  Ministerial  side  of  the  House 
(hear,  hear,  and  laughter) — but  though  he 
did  give  us  the  credit  of  being  the  only  ones 
that  had  laid  eggs  that  amounted  to  anything, 
the  others  being  all  addled,  he  might  have  re- 
flected a  little,  and  in  doing  so  have  found 
that  the  eggs  that  these  "  shanghais  "  had 
laid  will  produce  birds  that  in  all  probability 
will  cut  the  combs  of  honorable  gentlemen  on 
that  side  of  the  House.  (Laughter.)  The 
hot  haste  witli  which  those  honorable  gentle- 
men are  proceeding  with  this  measure  is  fos- 
tering and  providing  that  heat  that  will 
bring  iato  vitality  and  life  those  very  eggs 
that  they  referred  to ;  and  when  the  country 
understands  the  character  of  the  brood  which 
is  produced  by  those  eggs,  honorable  gentle- 
men will  find  that  they  have  been  counting 
without  their  host  in  hatching  them.  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  GALT — Counting  their  chickens 
before  they  are  hatched.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  M.  C.  CAMERON— Exactly ;  count- 
95 


ing  tlie  chickens  before  they  are  hatched. 
Honorable  gentlemen  parade  before  this  House 
an  indefinable  something  that  they  are  careful 
to  keep  in  the  background,  which  they  seem 
to  intimate,  if  they  were  only  to  divulge, 
would  bring  almost  every  member  of  the 
House  around  to  their  view  of  the  question 
at  once.  Mr.  Speaker,  if  there  is  any  in- 
formation of  that  kind  in  their  possession,  we 
should  know  what  it  is.  (Hear,  hear.)  If 
we  have  a  herculean  labor  before  us  to  meet 
some  approaching  difficulty,  this  House  should 
know  what  that  labor  and  that  difficulty  is, 
that  we  may  prepare  to  meet  it  as  speedily 
and  as  bravely  as  possible.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  do  not  find  that  the  honorable  gentlemen 
are  making  any  preparations  for  meeting  the 
lack  of  defence  under  which  they  say  the 
country  exists,  between  the  present  time  and 
the  assembling  of  this  House  in  the  summer. 
And  yet  they  bring  the  matter  up  to  frighten 
the  House  into  submission  to  their  views. 
They  have  a  puppet  from  which,  by  peeping 
it  sufficiently  behind  the  screens,  they  throw 
a  distorted  shadow  upon  the  wall  and  tell  us 
to  look  at  the  giant ;  but  when  the  shadow  is 
traced  to  its  origin,  it  will  be  found,  I  appre- 
hend, to  be  nothing  but  a  puppet  after  all. 
If  they  were  to  come  out  boldly  and  give  this 
House  all  the  information  of  which  they  boast 
the  possession,  I  am  very  much  mistaken  if 
the  mystery  would  not  turn  out  to  be  a  mere 
scarecrow.  They  make  a  great  cackling  about 
the  hawk,  and  then  when  the  whole  brood  of 
chickens  is  gathered  under  their  wings,  it  turns 
out  that  the  source  of  their  pretended  fright 
is  nothing  but  a  harmless  dove  after  all. 
(Laughter.)  Honorable  gentlemen  on  the 
Treasury  benches  are  constantly  endeavoring 
to  lead  us  to  suppose  that  there  is  imminent 
danger  of  a  war  with  the  United  States,  and 
yet  each  honorable  member,  as  he  rises,  de- 
clares that  for  himself  he  has  no  apprehension 
of  anything  of  that  kind.  They  ought  to 
consider  that  if  there  is  any  ground  for  ap- 
prehension, if  there  is  any  danger  of  the 
United  States  attacking  Canada  and  getting 
into  a  war  with  England,  such  a  war  will  be 
upon  us  almost  immediately.  When  the  nation 
emerges  from  the  strife  in  which  it  is  at 
present  engaged,  they  will  have  learned  a  costly 
lesson  of  the  horrors  of  war  and  the  financial 
burdens  it  imposes;  and  I  am  satisfied  that 
so  intelligent  a  people  as  they  are  universally 
admitted  to  be,  will  not  rush  into  a  contest 
with  a  power  like  that  of  England,  unless  they 
do  so  while  smarting  under  wrongs  they  im- 
agine they  have  suff"ered  at  the  hands  of  Eng- 


746 


land  in  connection  with  the  war  in  which 
they  are  now  engaged.  After  they  have  had 
time  to  reflect  and  to  sit  down  and  count  the 
cost  of  the  strife  through  which  they  will 
have  passed,  in  treasure  and  blood  and  intel- 
lect, and  their  national  wounds  have  had  time 
to  stiffen,  there  will  be  little  danger  of  their 
again  rushing  into  another  similarly  disastrous 
contest.  I  heard  a  gentleman  describing  this 
matter  a  short  time  ago,  by  an  illustration  which 
I  will  here  repeat.  His  position  was  that  the 
respective  probabilities  of  a  war  with  the 
United  States,  at  an  early  or  a  remote  period, 
might  be  learned  from  what  is  often  seen 
when  two  men  have  been  engaged  in  a  round 
of  fisticuffs.  They  pummell  and  bruise  each 
other  in  the  most  shocking  manner ;  and  while 
the  wounds  they  have  received  at  each  other's 
hands  are  fresh,  while  their  blood  is  up,  and 
while  they  are  smarting  under  their  injuries, 
if  a  bystander  interferes  with  either  of  them, 
even  sonaetimes  by  a  little  wholesome,  well- 
meant  advice,  the  wounded  man  will  be  ready 
to  pitch  into  him  at  once,  almost  without 
thought  of  the  odds  that  may  exist  against 
him.  But  after  such  an  individual  cools  off 
and  his  wounds  become  stiff  and  sore,  and  he 
gets  time  for  reflection,  he  has  no  desire  what- 
ever to  enter  into  a  contest.  And  so,  1  appre- 
hend, will  it  be  with  our  neighbors  on  the 
other  side  of  the  line.  When  they  get  cooled 
down  after  the  present  contest,  return  to  their 
almost  desolated  homes  again,  and  see  the 
vacancies  that  have  been  caused,  and  when 
their  leaders  count  up  the  millions  upon 
millions  of  dollars  that  their  present  war  will 
have  cost  them,  and  the  claims  that  will 
be  made  upon  them  for  compensation,  war 
losses,  and  numerous  other  matters,  they  will 
feel  a  very  great  aversion  to  enteiing  upon 
hostilities  which  will  bring  down  upon  them 
the  whole  power  of  England.  Therefore  I 
hold  that  if  we  are  going  to  expend  money  in 
defences,  it  ought  to  be  done  without  a  day's 
unnecessary  delay.  And  yet  hoa.  gentlemen 
propose  to  delay  submitting  a  measure  for 
the  consideration  of  the  House  until  another 
session.  They  will  prorogue  this  session 
without  making  any  appropriation  for  de- 
fence, and  go  home  to  England  to  push 
through  a  sclicme  which  there  is  now  uo 
object  in  hurrying  forward.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Hon.  gentlemen  on  this  side  of  the  House 
are  not  actuated  in  their  opposition  to  the 
scheme  by  any  desire  to  occupy  the  place  of 
any  one  of  the  hou.  gentlemen  on  the  Trea- 
sary  benches,  but  their  object  is  to  protect 
the  iutercstH  of  the  people,  on  whose  behail 


they  have  been  sent  to  this  House,  and  on 
their  behalf  to  see  that  we  have  a  government 
carried  on  upon  economical  principles,  so  that 
the  people  may  be  led  to  respect  and  sustain 
it.     (Hear,  hear.)     But  if  we  have  a  govern- 
ment that  is  extravagant  in  their  ideas,  how 
can   we  expect   the   people   to   respect  that 
government  ?     And  what  is  there  so  well  cal- 
culated to  place  this  country  on  the  inclined 
plane  to  slide  into  the  American  Union — so 
graphically    described   by    the    head   of  the 
Government  in  the  Upper  House — as  extrav- 
agance on  the  part  ot  our  Government?     If 
we  have  to  spend  the  sum  that  the  commis- 
sion has  recommended  in  erecting  works  of 
defence,  and  then  provide  corresponding  forces 
of  men  and  equipments,  the  expense  will  be 
monstrous.     And  yet,  forsooth,   because  we 
ask  for  information,  and  object  to  the  coercion 
they  have  attempted,  they  charge    us  with 
being  obstructionists.     Do  they  mean  to  say 
that  it  is    factious    conduct  for    the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  people  to  demand  that  they 
be  consulted  before  their  very  Constitution  is 
trampled  upon  and  another  forced  upon  them  ? 
Canada  is  by  far  the  most  numerously  popu- 
lated, most  wealthy   a  d  most  important  of 
all  the  colonies  to  be  affected  by  the  change, 
and  yet  the  people  of  this  province   are  the 
only  people  that  are  to  have  no  opportunity 
of  saying  whether  the  change  is  acceptable  or 
not,  nor  are  their  representatives  in  Parlia- 
ment to  have  even  the  opportunity  of  moving 
a  single  amendment  to  it.     ( Hear,  hear.)     If 
opposition  to  that  kind  of  thing  entitles  me 
to  the  epithet  of  obstructionist,  then  I  glory 
in  the  name  of  an  obstructionist.  (Applause.) 
I  shall  vote  against  the  motion   that  has  been 
made  by  my  hop.  friend  the  Hon.  Atty.  Gon. 
West,  and  1  again  express  my  sincere  regret 
that  he  should  have  been  induced  to  bring  in 
such  a  motion,  calculated,  as  it  is.  to  stifle 
the  proper  and  ordinary  expression  o     this 
House.     To  tell  us  that  wc  may  discuss  the 
question  as  much  as  we  please  is  most  gratu- 
itous, and  is  nothing  but  a  sham,  alongside  of 
the  fact  that  the  motion  shuts  us  off  from 
bringing  forward  any  amendments,  or  placing 
our  views  upon  the  subject  upon  the  records 
of  the  House.     How  often  have  hon.  gentle- 
men on  that  side  of  the  House  told  us  that  it 
we  were  not  prepared  to  accept  the  measure, 
we  ought  to  be  prepared  to  propose  a  better 
one?     But  no  sooner  do  we  give   notice  of 
what  we  consider  a  better  one,  than  we  are 
virtually  gagged,  and  told  that  we  shall  not 
have  the  opportunity  of  even  proposing  them 
to  the  HouitO.     If  that  is  the  way  that  a  fre« 


T'i? 


peopk  is  to  be  treated,  hon.  gentlemen  will 
Boon  find  out  that  they  are  on  the  wrong 
track;  and  when  Parliament  is  again  sum- 
moned, they  will  be  met  by  a  voice  from  the 
people  that  will  show  them  that  they  have 
adopted  a  course  that  will  consign  names  that 
have  heretofore  been  honorable,  to  political 
oblivion,  on  account  of  this  outrage  upon  the 
rights  and  liberties  of  a  free  people,  and  it 
will  be  an  oblivion  that  will  be  richly  mer- 
iter..     (Loud  cheers.) 

Mn.  SCATCUERD  said -.—The  resolu- 
tions under  debate,  involving  as  they  do  an 
entire  change  in  the  Constitution  of  this 
country,  I  regard  as  of  greater  importance 
than  auy  question  that  has  been  debated 
before  this  House  since  the  union.  So 
sweeping  a  change  seldom  takes  place  except 
after  war  or  insurrection.  (Hear,  hear.) 
But  we  have  had  neither  war  nor  insurrec- 
tion— (hear) — we  have  enjoyed  a  very  long 
season  of  peace  and  quietness,  and  at  no 
time  has  there  been  an  agitation  among  the 
people  for  such  a  change  as  that  now  pro- 
postd.  I  believe  this  scheme  to  have  been 
undertaken  mainly  becnuse  the  leaders  of 
the  I  wo  political  parties  saw  that  they  had 
no  hope  lett  of  continuing  in  office  on  the 
one  hand,  or  getting  into  office  on  the  other, 
while  they  fought  against  each  other.  I 
have  heard  it  asserted  in  this  House  and 
out  of  this  House,  that  so  grave  had  become 
the  position  of  public  affairs,  that  all  gov- 
ernment had  beco:i-e  impossible,  and  that 
the  gravity  of  the  occasion  required  that 
men  of  all  parties  should  unite  to  find  a 
solution  of  existing  difficulties.  I  hope  this 
was  not  a  mere  pretence,  put  forward  by 
men  in  office  to  continue  in  office,  and  by  men 
out  of  office  to  get  into  office.  It  is  a  fact 
well  known,  that  so  long  as  either  party 
could  govern  without  the  assistance  of  the 
other,  no  advance  was  made  toward  a  union 
between  the  leaders.  The  changing  of  two 
or  three  votes  in  this  Hijpse  would  have 
indefinitely  postponed  the  scheme  now  under 
consideration.  That  there  was  no  necessity 
occasioned  by  a  dead-lock  in  carrying  on  the 
Grovernment  must  be  apparent,  wheft  we  con- 
sider that  political  parties,  by  a  little  forbear- 
ance, would  have  avoided  the  dead-lock. 
Surely,  if  parties  could  unite  as  they  did  in 
June  last,  they  could  have  united  to  prevent 
the  difficulty  complained  of,  and  have  put 
off  the  evil  day  perhaps  forever,  without 
entering  upon  a  scheme  to  subvert  the  Con- 
stitution.    If  a  dead-lock  existed,  it  ought 


to  be  attributed  rather  to  the  contention  of 
parties  than  to  any  defect  in  our  form  of 
goveroment.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  union  be- 
tween the  Caaadas  took  place  in  1840 ; 
for  some  time  afterwards  each  section  was 
represented  in  the  united  Legislature  by 
forty-two  members.  Tipper  Canada  at  the 
time  of  the  uuion  had  a  population  of 
486,000,  and  Lower  Canada  661,000.  After 
the  union  took  place,  from  18 14  to  1848, 
the  majority  of  the  Government  was  a  very 
narrow  one.  The  Government  was  kept  in 
power  by  two  or.  three  votes;  yet  during 
these  years  there  was  not  a  suggestion  in 
favor  of  a  change  of  Constitution  for  the 
purpose  of  increasing  the  majority.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  same  number  of  members  con- 
tinued to  represent  each  section  of  the 
province  until  1854,  when  the  number  from 
each  section  was  increased  to  sixty-five,  and 
has  continued  so  to  the  present  time.  From 
the  year  1854  until  the  present  time,  there 
has  existed  among  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  a  strong  agitation  in  favor  of  repre- 
sentation according  to  population.  That 
principle  was  agitated  by  the  Reform  party 
at  every  election.  It  was  the  principal 
political  topic,  and  members  were  required 
to  pledge  themselves  to  maintain  it  under 
all  circumstances  upon  the  floor  of  this 
House.  And  not  only  was  the  Refoim  party 
committed  to  that  principle,  but  many  Con- 
servatives were  forced  to  declare  themselves 
in  favor  of  it.  In  1858  some  of  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Government  sent  an  official 
letter  to  England,  in  which  the  difficulties 
of  the  country  were  graphically  referred  to, 
and  the  agitation  was  characterized  as  being 
fraught  with  great  danger  to  the  peaceful 
aad  harmonious  working  of  our  constitutional 
system,  and  consequently  detrimental  to  the 
progress  of  the  province.  This  document 
was  laid  before  Parliament  in  February, 
1859,  and  in  November  of  the  same  year 
the  Toronto  Convention  met,  where  the 
Reform  party  was  represented  by  about  570 
prominent  gentlemen  from  all  parts  of 
Upper  Canada.  At  that  meeting  the  griev- 
fiuces  of  which  Upper  Canada  complained 
were  discussed  in  an  able  manner  by  gentle- 
men fully  acquainted  with  them,  and  capable 
of  setting  them  forth.  Although  the  project 
of  a  Federal  union  of  the  provinces  had  been 
brought  before  Parliament  and  the  country 
in  February,  and  the  Convention  met  in 
November,  and  ample  time  was  given  for  its 
agitation,  \.  e  find  that  the  Convention  did 


748 


not  consider  that  it  afforded  a  proper  remedy 
for  the  evils  that  existed  in  Upper  Canada. 
The  resolutions  passed  by  that  Convention 
with  respect  to  the  grievances  of  Canada,  aud 
the  proper  remedy  for  them,  were  as  follow  : — 

No.  1. — Resolved,  That  the  existirg  Legisla- 
tive union  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  has  failed 
to  realize  the  anticipations  of  its  promoters,  has 
resulted  in  a  heavy  public  debt,  burdensome  taxa- 
tion, great  political  abuses,  and  universal  dissatis- 
faction through  Upper  Cauada,  and  it  is  the 
matured  conviction  of  this  assembly,  from  the 
antagonism  developed,  from  difference  of  origin, 
local  interests,  and  other  causes,  that  the  union 
in  its  present  form  can  no  longer  be  continued 
with  advantage  to  the  people. 

So  much  for  the  grievances. 

No.  5. — Resolved,  That  in  the  opinion  of  this 
assembly  the  best  practical  remedy  for  the  evils 
now  encountered  in  the  government  of  Canada, 
is  to  be  found  in  the  formation  ot  two  or  more 
local  governments,  to  which  shall  be  committed 
the  control  of  all  matters  of  a  local  and  sectional 
character,  and  some  joint  authority  charged  with 
such  matters  as  are  necessary,  common  to  both 
sections  of  the  province. 

Such  was  the  remedy.  The  4th  resolution 
shows  that  the  Federation  of  the  provinces 
was  not  entertained  as  a  remedy  for  the 
evils  complained  of  by  the  Convention,  for 
it  resolved  : — 

That    without     entering    on     the     discussion 


of  other  objections,  this  assembly  is  of 
opinion  that  the  delay  which  must  occur  in  ob- 
taining the  sanction  of  the  Lower  Provinces  to 
a  Federal  union  of  all  the  British  North  Ameri- 
can Colonies,  places  that  measure  beyond  con- 
sideration as  a  remedy  for  present  evils. 
Now,  if  it  had  been  the  opinion  of  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada,  as  represented  in 
that  Convention,  that  a  Federal  union  with 
the  Maritime  Provinces  would  prove  a  remedy 
for  the  grievances  they  were  laboring  under, 
they  would  have  taken  it  into  consideration. 
Either  it  did  not  suit  the  leaders  of  the  Re- 
form party  at  that  time  to  take  up  that  plan 
as  it  was  brought  forward  by  men  opposed 
to  them,  or  else  they  did  not  believe  it  the 
true  remedy.  If  they  had  believed  it  the 
proper  remedy,  there  was  nothing  to  prevent 
them  uniting  with  the  Government  to  carry 
it  out,  with  the  cooperation  of  the  other 
provinces.  The  only  drawback  to  the  adop- 
tion of  the  scheme  was  the  fact  that  its  pro- 
posers were  in  oflBce  and  likely  to  remain 
there.  That  to  my  mind  is  the  only  reason 
which  can  now  be  alleged  for  not  taking  it 
it  up  at  that  time.  One  ef  the  reasons 
assigned  for  calling  that  Coaven*Jon  together 
was,  that  although  the  population  of  Upper 


Canada  was  much  larger  than  that  of  Lower 
Canada,  and  was  constantly  increasing,  yet 
Upper  Canada  found  itself  without  power  in 
the  administration  of  the  affairs  of  the  pro- 
vince, (Hear,  hear.)  Another  principal 
grievance  under  which  Upper  Canada  labored 
was  the  unjust  levying  and  distribution  of  the 
public  moneys.  It  was  contended  that  seventy 
per  cent,  of  the  anuual  taxation  was  collected 
from  Upper  Cauada,  and  only  thirty  per 
cent,  from  Lower  Canada ;  on  the  other 
hand,  when  the  money  came  to  be  expended, 
for  every  dollar  that  was  expended  in  Upper 
Canada,  a  dollar  was  also  expended^in  Lower 
Canada.  And  that  appears  to  have  been  the 
opinion  of  prominent  members  of  both  poli- 
tical parties ;  representation  by  population 
was  demanded  by  the  people  of  the  western 
section  as  a  cure  for  that  state  of  things. 
They  considered  that  if  they  were  repre- 
sented in  this  House  according  to  numbers, 
they  would  be  able  to  prevent  the  unjust 
distribution  of  the  public  revenues  of  the 
province.  Now,  the  great  measure  before 
this  House  has  been  congidered  by  some  as 
designed  to  create  a  nation,  by  others  as  a 
means  of  increasing  largely  the  material  and 
commercial  interests  of  the  country.  I  can- 
not see  that  the  Federation  of  the  provinces 
has  anything  of  a  national  phase  in  it.  For 
those  who  are  dissatisfied  with  remaining  as 
colonists  of  Great  Britain,  it  may  be  very 
well  to  look  forward  to  the  creation  of  a 
nationality  or  state  of  national  existence. 
When  you  speak  of  national  existence,  you 
speak  of  independence ;  and  so  long  as  we 
are  colonists  of  Great  Britain  we  can  have 
no  national  existence.  (Hear,  hear.)  In 
New  Brunswick  this  question  has  been  treat- 
ed purely  as  a  question  of  material  interest 
to  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  a  work 
recently  published  by  the  Hon.  Mr.  Cau- 
CHON,  I  find  tho  following  statement  of  the 
way  in  which  the  question  is  treated  in  New 
Brunswick.  Tlic  honorable  gentleman  says, 
page  26  : — 

The  ouly  point  for  them  to  consider  in  making 
a  selection  would  be  the  material  question  of 
profit  or  loss  ;  more  or  less  of  trade,  more  or  less 
of  ta.Yes.  The  truth  of  this  is  clearly  showu  by 
the  projocl  of  Confederation  itaelf,  m  which  it 
will  be  seen  that  the  exceptions  affect  only  Lower 
Canada,  and  in  the  speeches  made  by  Mr.  Tii-LKY, 
in  New  Brunswick,  in  which  he  states  frankly  and 
unequivocally,  that  with  that  province  there  can 
be  but  one  paramount  question  in  the  discussion 
of  the  scheme,  namely,  that  of  pecuniary  interest. 
Will  New  Brunswick,  under  the  union,  pay  more 
or  less,  receive  more  or  lets ;  will  the  taxes  im- 


749 


posed,  under  the  union,  be  more  or  less  than  they 
now  are  ?  The  question  has  been  thus  received 
by  the  press  and  public  men  of  that  province, 
and  they  have  so  discussed  it,  with  a  view  to  ac- 
cept or  reject  it. 

To  my  mind,  that  is  the  way  in  which  the 
question  ought  to  be  treated  in  this  province. 
As  a  national  matter  it  ought  not  to  be  con- 
sidered at  all.  The  true  question  is,  whether 
the  people  of  this  province  will  be  called 
upon  to.  pay  Kore  or  less  taxes,  and  enjoy 
more  or  less  prosperity.  (Hear,  hear.)  The 
agitation  in  connection  with  representation 
by  population  has  continued  during  the  past 
ten  years.  Going  back  to  the  time  of  the 
defeat  of  the  Cartier-Macdonald  Ad- 
ministration, we  find  that  that  Administra- 
tion had  considered  it  an  open  question. 
The  Macdonald-Sicotte  Administration, 
which  succeeded,  resolved  to  treat  it  as  a 
close  question.  They  agreed  to  leave  it  in 
abeyance,  but  I  never  understood  that  their 
supporters  from  Upper  Canada  agreed  to 
ahandon  it.  It  was  stated  distinctly  at  the  time 
of  the  formation  of  that  Government,  that  any 
abandonment  of  the  question  was  a  matter 
altogether  with  the  Government,  and  was  not 
binding  upon  their  supporters.  (Hear,  hear  ) 
That  government  adopted  what  was  called 
the  double- majority  princij.le,  but  I  never 
understood  that  a  majority  of  their  supporters 
from  Upper  Canada  agreed  to  accept  it  as  a 
basis,  or  a  means  of  securing  the  settlement 
of  the  grievances  of  Upper  Canada.  What 
the  Upper  Canada  Keform  party  agreed  to 
was,  that  as  there  was  great  corruption  and 
extravagance  in  the  administration  of  the 
finances  of  this  country,  for  the  sake  of 
securing  administrative  reform  they  would 
allow  the  question  of  representation  by  popu- 
lation to  remain  in  abeyance  lor  a  time. 
However,  the  double-majority  principle 
would  not  work.  (Hear,  hear.)  xhe  Mac- 
donald-Sicotte Government  were  defeated, 
and  the  Macdonald-Dorion  Government 
was  formed.  They  treated  the  question  in 
the  same  way  as  the  Cartier-Macdonald 
did — left  it  an  open  question.  While  that 
government  continued  in  office,  there  was  no 
special  agitation  for  representation  according 
to  population,  although  in  the  House  it  was 
very  generaHy  supported  by  members  from 
Upper  Canada.  That  government  resigned, 
a  new  government  was  formed,  and,  during 
the  period  of  that  new  government's  exist- 
ence, the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford  had 
his  committee  appointed  to  take  into  consid- 


eration the  representation  question.  That 
committee,  it  appears,  had  the  matter  under 
consideration  for  a  long  time.  They  made 
a  report  the  same  day  the  Government  was 
defeated,  but  came  to  no  conclusion  what- 
ever, except  in  the  general  statement  that 
most  of  its  members  looked  in  the  direction 
of  a  Federal  Government.  (Hear,  hear.) 
This  government  was  defeated  on  the  ques- 
tion of  the  ^100,000  paid  to  the  city  of 
Montreal.  That  vote  took  place  on  the  14th 
of  June,  the  latter  part  of  the  resolution 
being  as  follows  : — 

And  in  view  of  the  facts  above  recited,  this 
House  would  be  failing  in  its  duty  if  it  did  not 
express  its  disapprobati'^n  of  an  unauthori'ed  ad- 
vance of  a  large  amount  of  public  money,  and  of 
the  subsequent  departure  from  the  conditions  of 
the  Order  in  Council  under  which  the  advance  was 
made. 

There  was  never  a  vote  aimed  more  distinctly 
than  that  at  the  Honorable  the  Minister  of 
Finance;  it  was  declared  by  a  majority  of 
this  House  that  he  was  the  means  of  the  loss 
of  this  §100,000  to  the  country.  The  majo- 
rity voted  in  that  way,  and  affirmed  that 
resolution.  The  moment  it  was  passed  a 
Ministerial  crisis  occurred,  and  it  was  under- 
stood that  the  Ministry  had  the  sanction  of 
the  Governor  General  to  dissolve  the  House  ; 
within  a  few  days,  some  of  the  very  men  who 
condemned  the  Minister  of  Finance  were 
willing  to  overlook  his  ofi'ence,  to  treat  the 
vote  of  the  House  as  of  no  consequence 
whatever,  and  to  become  colleagues  of  that 
honorable  gentleman  in  the  Government. 
(Hear.)  Thus  the  present  Coalition  was 
formed  with  its  policy  of  Confederation.  I 
believe  that  the  agitation  for  representation 
by  population  had  been  less  active  for  three 
years  preceding  the  fora:ation  of  that  gov- 
ernment than  at  any  time  during  the  last 
ten*years  ;'  but  the  mere  fact  of  the  Govern- 
ment being  defeated  seemed  to  be  a  sufficient 
excuse  for  these  honorable  gentlemen  to  join 
men  to  whom  they  had  been  opposed  for 
years,  and  to  come  down  to  this  House  with 
a  proposal  lor  a  Confederation  of  the  provin- 
ces. For  my  own  part,  I  am  not  opposed 
to  a  Confederation  of  these  provinces,  on  a 
proper  basis,  although  I  would  rather  have 
seen  a  legislative  union  of  them  preferred. 
1  have  no  sympathy  with  those  members  in 
their  opposition  to  the  scheme,  who,  while 
opposing  it,  are  equally  opposed  to  legisla- 
tive union  and  representation  by  population. 
I  think,  from  the  increase  of  population  iii 


750 


Upper  Canada,  that  some  change  is  neces- 
sary ;   and  I  cannot  understand    how    hon. 
members,  who  are  opposed  to  tbis  scheme 
and  also     to  a  legislative  union,  and  to  any 
change  in  representation,   can  expect  sym- 
pathy from  Upper  Canadian   members.     It 
is  not  the  principle   of  the   scheme  that  I 
object  to.     My  objections  I  will  state.    Part 
of  the  new  Constitution    proposes    the    con- 
struction   of     the     Intercolonial     Railway. 
Now,  when  that  question  was  first  brought 
up  in  1862,  I  was  opposed  to  it.     When 
it   was  first    announced    as    the    intention 
of  the    Macdonald-Sicotte    Government 
to   undertake    the    building    of  that  road, 
I  expressed  myself  as  decidedly  in  opposi- 
tion to  it,  on  the  very  first  opportunity  that 
oflfered,   and  I   have    never   since  seen   any 
reason  to  change  the  position  I  then  took. 
In  connection  with  this  subject,  I  beg  leave 
to  cite  the  opinions  of  the  hon.  member  for 
South  Oxford,  as  then  expressed.     I  do  not 
do  so  in  order  to  show  that  he  has  changed 
his  mind  with   regard  to   this  road,   for   I 
believe  he  does  not  conceal  the  fact  himself. 
I  make  this  citation  to  show  not  only  what 
his  views  were,  but  what  were  the  views,  I 
believe,  of  the    majority  of  the    people    of 
Upper  Canada  at  that  time,  views  which  in 
my  opinion  they  still  entertain.     It  is  stated 
that  the  road   ought   to   be  built  becauuse 
it   is    necessary    for    the    military    defence 
of  the  country.     It  is  Htatcd   that  it  ought 
to   follow  the    longest   route,   because   the 
shorter    one    will    bring   it    too    near    the 
boundary     line     ot     the   State    of     Maine. 
(Hear,  hear.)     When   it  is  considered  that 
this  road  will  unite  with  the   Grand  Trunk 
at  Eivi^re  du    Loup,  and  that  the  Grand 
Trunk  is  at  places  within  twenty-six  miles 
of   the    boundary    of  Maine,    I    think    that 
the  amount  it  will  contribute  to  the  military 
defence  is  of  very  little  value.   It  is  ridiculous 
to  suppose  that  the  Americans  would  not  be 
able  to  cut  a  railway  only  twenty-six  miles 
from  their  territory.     If  we  are  not  strong 
enough  to  hold  and  protect  the  road  which 
runs  through  Maine,  the  lutercoloniai  would 
be  of  very  little  importance   or  use.      The 
opinion  expressed  in  the   Globe  about  this 
railway  as  a  work   of  military  defence  was 
this — I  quote  irom  the  issue  of   the  18th 
September,   18()2  : — 

But  as  our  opinion  upon  military  matters  may 
not  be  worth  much,  we  sire  prepared  to  adduce 
corroborativ"  testimony  in  its  support. 

And  then  he  cites  the  following  from  Black- 
wood's Magazine : — 


On  the  whole  we  are  inclined  to  think  that 
until  our  milirary  frontier  is  rectified,  the  con- 
struction of  a  railway  between  St.  John  and  the 
St.  Lawrence  would,  as  far  as  military  operations 
are  concerned,  be  money  thrown  away.  If  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  is  to  be  built,  let  its  friends 
justify  it  upon  bonajide  grounds,  and  not  upon  the 
bogus  plea  that  it  is  necessary  for  the  military 
defence  of  the  province. 

That  was  the  opinion,  I  believe,  of  the 
majority  of  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  at 
that  time,  that  as  a  military  defence  this 
road  would  be  completely  useless'."  But  we 
find  that  the  proposition  to  build  the  road 
is  inserted  in  one  of  these  resolutions,  the 
68th,  in  the  following  terms  : — 

The  General  Government  shall  secure,  without 
delay,  the  completion  of  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way from  Riviere  du  Loup  through  New  Bruns- 
wick to  Truro,  in  Nova  Scotia. 

The  next  resolution  refers  to  the  North- 
Western  Territory,  and  is  as  follows : — 

69.  The  communication  with  the  North-Western 
Territory  and  the  improvements  required  for  the 
development  of  the  trade  of  the  Great  West  with 
the  seaboard  are  regarded  by  tbis  Conferei;ce  as 
subjects  of  the  highest  importance  to  the  Feder- 
ated Provinces,  and  shall  be  prosecuted  at  the 
earliest  possible  period  that  the  state  of  the 
finances  M'ill  permit. 

According  to  these  resolutions  the  con- 
struction of  the  Intercolonial  iiailway  is 
made  a  part  of  the  Constitution  of  the 
country,  and  the  road  will  have  to  be  built. 
On  the  other  hand  the  enlargement  of  the 
oanals  and  the  opening  up  of  the  North- 
West  will  depend  upon  the  contingency 
whether  the  finances  of  the  country  will 
permit  of  the  performance  of  these  works. 
Now,  the  opening  up  of  the  North-West  is 
a  subject  that  has  engaged  the  seriou."?  atten- 
tion of  many  people  in  Upper  ^  anada.  By 
a  large  majority  of  the  population  it  is  con- 
sidered as  most  important  for  the  interest  of 
of  this  country  that  that  territory  should  be 
opened  up  to  settb  ment.  1  find  the  Great 
North-West  is  thus  referred  to  by  the  Hon. 
Mr.  Cauciion.  in  his  pamphlet  on  the 
Union  of  the  Provinces  of  British  North 
America,  page  5() : — 

And  what  is  Oanuda  in  extent  compared  to  the 
Western  prairies,  the  area  and  fertility  of  which 
can  scarcely  be  appreciated  or  judged  even  with 
reports  hefo re  u.sturnished  by  Mi'.  DAi.i..\s,(iovenor 
of  the  Hudson's  liay  Company,  and  Ur.  Kak,  an 
old  factor,  well  known  from  his  reputation  ai»  an 
i  stronomer,  and  as  having  discovered  the  remains 
of  Fkanklin  and  his  unfortunate  companions. 
The  latter,  instructed  to  attempt  the  discovery  of 


751 


a  passage  through  the  Rocky  Mountains  for  the 
Transcontinental  Telegraph  Company,  states  that 
the  river  Saskatchewan  is  a  great  public  highway, 
flowing  through  immense  fertile  valleys,  in  which 
wheat  and  barley  might  be  grown  in  abundance. 

Mr.  Dallas  alludes  to  it  in  the  following 
words : — 

The  whole  country  is  more  or  less  adapted  to 
colonization.  Two  years  ago  I  rode  on  horseback 
in  the  month  of  August  over  the  greater  part  of 
that  couutry.  We  had  to  wade  as  it  were  knee 
deep  through  tares  and  fitch.  I  saw  there  horses 
and  oxen  as  tat  as  any  I  ever  found  on  the  best 
pasturage  grounds  in  England.  Those  animals 
had  passed  the  winter  in  the  open  air,  without  a 
mouthful  of  hay  j  this  will  give  a  better  idea  of 
the  climate  here  than  if  1  were  to  furnish  the 
variations  ol  the  thermometer. 

I  look  upon  this  country  as  well  adapted  to 
settlement,  and  extraordinarily  healthy.  Every- 
thing seems  to  thrive  here  ;  the  wheat  crop  is  of 
course  rather  uncerta-nj  but  idi  other  cereals  and 
vegetables  obtain  the  same  perfection  that  they 
do  in  England.  Toward*  the  north  we  find  an 
area  of  timber  land,  and  undulating  prairies,  which 
extend  over  the  whole  country.  The  lakes  and 
rivers  abound  in  fish,  and  the  prairies  with  every 
species  of  game,  &c. 

Now,  sir,  that  is  a  description  of  the  country 
held  forth  to  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  as 
a  kind  of  set-off  against  tho  Intercolonial 
Railway,  to  be  opened  up  wiienever  the  state 
of  the  hnances  will  permit.  I  object  to  the 
scheme,  for  the  reason  that  it  makes  the 
opening  up  of  such  a  country  a  mere  con- 
tingency ;  and  to  show  the  interest  takon  by 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada  generally,  I 
will  refer  to  an  article  that  appeared  in  the 
Globe  about  the  time  the  jMacdonald- 
SlOOiTE  Government  proposed  to  build  the 
Intercolonial  Railway,  on  the  i9th  of  Sep- 
tember, 18o2.     It  said; — 

We  observe  that  Mr.  Folet  has  the  good  sense 
to  reject  the  suggestion  of  Mr.  Howe  that  the 
Quebec  and  Halifax  road  is  in  fact  an  important 
link  in  the  great  Pacific  Railway  through  British 
territory.  Not  a  pound  of  freiglit  nor  a  passenger 
which  may  come  over  the  Pacific  Railway,  when  it 
is  built,  will  ever  seek  the  port  of  Halifax.  It 
ii  an  absolute  injury  to  the  Pacific  Railroad  to 
represent  that  it  is  necessary  to  construct  four 
hundred  miles  ol  an  utterly  unproductive  line 
before  commencing  the  greater  work  with  one- 
fifth  of  the  sum  per  annum  which  is  to  be  devojed 
by  the  ministerial  scheme  to  the  Intercolonial 
Railroad.  We  can  open  a  practicable  communi- 
cation across  the  continent  ani  annex  to  Can- 
ada half  a  continent  of  the  richest  land  yet 
unoccupied  by  civilized  man.  Not  a  penny  are  we 
to  receive  for  this  purpose,  but  £50,0l'0  per  annum 
thrown  away  upon  the  rocks  of  Riviere  du  Loup. 


That,  sir,  was  the  opinion  expressed  by  the 
Globe  newspaper  so  late  as  September,  1862, 
and  I  call  the  attention  of  the  House  to  the 
fact  that  as  a  very  large  proportion  of  the 
expense  of  building  this  railroad  is  to  be 
borne  by  Upper  Canada,  would  not  the  same 
sum,  if  so  applied,  open  up  this  magnificent ' 
country  ?  Are  we  not,  in  fact,  deferring  the 
opening  of  it  up  by  spending  a  large  sum  of 
mo-iey  in  the  opposite  direction  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Oh,  no;  quite  in- 
correct. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— Then  another  com- 
plaint that  has  long  been  made  in  this  coun- 
try is,  that  we  have  a  very  large  public  debt ; 
that  the  people  are  very  highly  taxed  for 
the  necessaries  of  life,  and  that  in  fact  the 
chief  articles  consumed  by  the  people  can 
bear  no  more  taxation.  I  think  there  can 
be  no  doubt  that  this  complaint  is  true  to 
quite  as  great  an  extent  as  has  ever  been 
urged.  Let  us  look  back  and  see  what 
duties  were  paid  upon  the  principal  articles 
of  consumption  ten  years  ago,  compared  with 
the  duties  that  they  now  bear.  I  hold  in 
my  hand  a  statement  showing  the  rates  of 
duty  from  1855  to  1865,  and  also  the  values 
of  the  chief  articles  for  consumptiou  im- 
ported into  this  province  for  the  half-year 
ended  30th  June,  1864  :— 


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Well,  sir,  we  find  that  some  of  these  articles 
have  been  taxed  to  an  amount  equal  to  one- 
half  their  value.  The  person  who  buys  and 
pays  50  per  cent,  duty,  gets  in  fact  in  value 
only  one-half  of  the  money  paid.  With  the 
duty  derived  from  these  articles  it  is  proposed 
by  this'scheme  to  do,  what  ?  Why  to  spend 
$20,000,000  on  this  railway,  and  that  money 
will  have  to  be  raised  some  way  or  other  out 
of  the  earnings  of  the  people.  I  will  cite 
another  extract  from  the  Globe  with  respect 
to  the  paying  or  supposed  paying  qualities  of 
this  road.  On  the  23rd  of  September,  18G2, 
it  said  : — 

The  scheme  of  the  Government  for  the  con- 
struction of  the  Intercolonial  Railway  opens  an 
account  that  never  will  be  closed  ;  every  storm  of 
anow  in  the  inhospitable  regions  below  Riviere 
du  Loup  will  lay  a  new  burden  on  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada.  The  tax-payers  will  watch  the 
passenger  travel  and  freight  traffic  with  the  live- 
liest interest,  as  indicating  the  extent  of  the  de- 
mands upon  them  for  the  year.  The  road  will  be 
run  with  a  perfect  consciousness  that  there  is  a 
prompt  paymaster  behind.  With  all  the  care  that 
public  companies  can  employ,  the  expenditures 
upon  the  small  items  connected  with  the  running 
of  a  railroad  is  above  all  things  difificult  to  con- 
trol ;  but  what  sums  will  be  spent  when  it  is  the 
Government  that  will  manage  and  the  people  of 
the  province  that  will  pay?  It  was  bad  enough 
when  they  consented  that  Canada  should  pay  five- 
twelfths  of  the  expenditure,  when  in  fact  it  will 
uot  receive  one-twelfth  of  the  benefit.  Who  can 
fail  to  see  the  hand  of  the  Grand  Trunk  in 
this  ?  It  is  the  dream  of  many  persons  in  Nova  " 
•  Scotia  that  this  Halifax  and  Quebec  Railway  will 
draw  to  their  harbor  the  trade  of  the  West,  but  it 
is  a  dream  and  nothing  more.  No  passenger,  no 
shipper  of  freight,  will  ever  think  of  going  or 
sending  to  Halifax  when  he  can  find  shipping  at 
Quebec  or  Portland.  He  will  not  add  the  cost  of 
seven  hundred  miles  of  railroad  to  the  expenses  of 
transit  to  benefit  the  people  of  Halifax.  As  to 
freight,  the  thing  is  not  to  be  spoken  of.  Neither 
freight  nor  passengers  would  such  a  line  draw 
from  any  point  higher  than  Riviere  du  Loup. 
There  is  a  refreshing  coolness  in  the  demand  that 
Canada  shall  pay  for  the  construction  of  a  road 
which  is  professedly  designed  to  draw  away  trade 
from  its  great  estuary. 

Is  that  not  equally  the  case  now  as  then  ? 
Who  can  fail  to  see  the  hand  of  the  Grand 
Trunk  in  this  Confederation  scheme  ? — 
(Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.)  Agaiu,  with 
respect  to  this  Intercolonial  Eailway,  i  find 
the  following  language  used  in  the  Globe  on 
the  26th  September,  1»62  : — 

With  Upper  Canada  decidedly  opposed  to  the 
scheme,  and  Lower  Canada  divided,  we  are  happy 
to  say  that  we  do  not  see  any  great  danger  of 
hasty  action.     W«  are  only  astonished  that  the 


Ministry  should  have  committed  themselves  to  a» 
scheme  which  finds  so  little  support  in  any  part 
of  the  province.  The  Lower  Province  delegates 
humbugged  them  beautifolly.  It  is  evident  that 
Blue  Nose  is  a  sharp  fellow.  He  is  rubbed  bright 
on  his  rocks.  We  shall  have  to  be  careful  in  our 
dealings  with  him.  If  Lower  Canada  is  afraid  of 
him  because  he  is  British,  we  must  learn  to  watch 
him  because  he  is  not  very  rich  but  very  keen  and 
shrewd. 

Well,  it  was  supposed  when  the  members 
of  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Government 
were  dealing  with  these  men  in  1862,  that 
they  were  humbugged  beautifully,  but  when 
we  got  the  best  men  in  the  country,  the 
ablest  and  most  talented  men,  to  deal  with 
them,  what  kind  of  bargain  did  they  make 
with  these  shrewd  blue  noses  ?  (Hear,  hear.) 
Why,  instead  of  Canada  paying  what  was 
proposed  by  the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Gov- 
ernment, the  Lower  Provinces  made  a  much 
more  favorable  bargais  with  the  cleverest 
men  we  have.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  contend,  sir, 
that  this  scheme,  at  one  jump,  proposes  to 
increase  the  public  debt  twenty  millions  of 
dollars.  And  another  thing  stated  is,  that 
a  sum  necessary  for  the  purpose  will  be 
expended  for  the  defence  of  the  country; 
and  if  we  are  to  place  any  reliance  upon  the 
report  of  Col.  Jervois,  the  sum  of  about  six 
millions  of  dollars  will  have  to  be  expended 
upon  the  defences.  From  the  reports  which 
reached  us  to-day  by  telegraph,  it  appears 
that  the  Imperial  Government  will  expend 
for  our  defence  only  the  sum  of  £50,000. 

Hun.  xMr.  brown — Thehon.  gentleman 
is  mistaken.  The  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West  distinctly  stated  to-day  that  there  was 
an  error  in  the  telegraphic  icport  of  the 
debate  in  the  Imperial  Parliament,  and  it  is 
highly  indecorous  for  the  hon.  gentleiuan  to 
repeat  these  statements  after  they  have  been 
shown  to  be  erroneous.  And  1  am  now  in 
a  position  to  state,  that  we  have  had  au 
answer  to  a  telegram  sent  specially  to  New 
York  to  ascertain  the  fact  from  the  London 
papers,  that  the  sum  asked  for  by  the  Impe- 
rial Government  for  the  defences  of  Quebec 
was  £200,000,  not  £50,000  as  stated  by  the 
hon.  member. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD -•Before  the  hon. 
member  makes  charges,  he  ought  to  have 
ascertained  that  this  telee;ram  had  been 
brought  to  my  notice.  I  took  the  statement 
as  it  appeared  in  the  published  telegraphic 
reports.  He  has  uo  right  to  charge  me  with 
repenting  an  incorrect  statement.  (Hear, 
hear.) 


753 


IlON.  Mk.  BROWN— It  was  not  to  that 
that  I  particularly  referred;  but  the  hon. 
gentleman  all  through  his  epeech  has  repeat- 
ed things  which  iny  colleagues  as  well  as 
myself  have  repeatedly  declared,  from  per- 
sonal knowledge,  to  be  incorrect. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— If  the  papers 
were  brought  duwn  there  would  be  no  mis- 
apprehension. 

xMr.  SC  \TCHERD— W  hat  is  the  amount 
to  be  contributed  by  the  Imperial  Grovern- 
ment  altogether  for  our  defence?  Is  it  only 
£200,0U0? 

Ho-v.  y\R.  BROWN— The  hon.  gentleman 
will  see  from  the  reports  that  that  amount  is 
intended  simply  for  works  at  Quebec.  The 
proportion  to  be  contributed  for  the  defences 
at  Montreal  and  westward  is  not  stated,  nor 
yet  settled. 

Mr.  SCATCHRRD— I  have  been  told  for 
the  first  time  that  the  Imperial  Government 
will  contribute  anything  towards  the  western 
defences;  for  the  teleg/aphic  reports  s:iy 
that,  if  they  undertake  to  fortify  Quebec,  the 
Canadian  Government  will  have  to  undertake 
the  works  at  Montreal  and  westward.  Now, 
we  are  told  that  this  scheme  has  reference 
both  to  local  government  and  local  defeiice, 
and  as  the  cost  of  defensive  works  is  stated 
by  Col.  JciRVOls  to  be  six  millions,  I  suppose 
we  will  have  to  pay  that  too. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  cost  may  be  a 
great  deal  more  than  six  millions,  possibly. 
We  can  say  nothin^at  present  as  to  the  cost. 

Mr.  St!ATCH>iRD— a  great  deal  more. 
Then  immense  sums  of  money  are  to  melt 
away  like  snow  upon  these  works,  and,  in 
fact,  there  will  be  no  limit  to  the  expendi- 
ture. (Hear,  hear.)  However,  passing  on 
from  this  point,  I  would  like  to  ask,  if  Con- 
federation is  carried,  in  what  position  will 
the  Country  stand  in  respect  to  the  public 
debt  ?  It  appears  that  the  population  of  the 
various  proviuces,  in  1861,  was  as  follows  : — 

Upper  Canada 1,395,091 

Lower  Canada --    ...1,110,664 

New  Bruaswick 252,'  47 

Nova  Scotia.... 330,857 

Newfoundland 130,000 

Prince  Edward  ^land 80,757 

If  Confederation  takes  place,  these  pro- 
vinces will  be  indebted  as  follows  :  the 
public  debt  of  Canada,  according  to  the 
Public  Accounts,  amounts  to  $67,'i63,000  ; 
Nova  Scotia  is  to  be  allowed  to  increase  its 
debt  to  88,000,000  ;  New  Brunswick  will  be 

96 


allowed  to  increase  its  debt  to  $7,000,000  ; 
the  debt  of  Prince  Edward  Island  is  §2-10,- 

000  ;  and  the  debt  of  Newfoundland,  8946,- 
000,  making,  if  the  provinces  are  united,  a 
grand  total  of  S83,0u0,000  as  the  debt  of 
the  Federal  Government.  It  may  be  said 
with  respect  to  Canada,  that  she  is  going 
into  the  Confederatior.  with  a  debt  of  only 
-362,500,000  J  although  that  may  be  true, 
she  will  nevertheless  owe  the  whole  amount 

1  have  stated,  which,  if  not  paid  by  the 
Federal  Government,  will  have  to  be  paid 
by  the  Governments  of  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— My  hon.  friend 
will  see  that  the  debt  of  §5,000,000  that 
n;ake  up  the  §67,263,000  is  due  to  ourselves, 
and  that  there  are  assets  to  meet  it,  which 
assets  will  be  made  over  to  the  local  govern- 
ments. The  reason  it  was  taken  from  the 
367,263,000  was  because  it  was  due  upon 
local  account,  and  because  there  were  local 
luuds  to  meet  its  payment.  It  was  altogether 
apart  and  disiinct  from  the  general  debt  of 
the  province. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— Whatarethe  acsets? 
Are  they  sufficient  to  pay  the  interest  upon 
the  amount  ? 

Hon.  xMr.  BROWN— Yes,  quite  enough. 

M  .  SCATCHEUD— This  5>5,000,0UU  is 
part  of  the  debt  of  the  province,  which  I 
have  put  down  at  $67,263,000. 

Hon.  Ma.  BROWN— Yes;  but  my  hon. 
friend  must  see  that  there  are  local  funds  to 
meet  it,  just  in  the  same  way  as  we  deduct 
the  Sinking  Fund  from  the  amount  of  the 
general  debt. 

Mr.  LlYMAL — Two  years  ago  the  hon. 
gentleman  taught  us  to  believe,  and  I  heard 
him  say  that  the  debt  of  the  country  was 
S78.0UO,000.     (^Laughter.) 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Was  the  amount 
of  the  Sinking  Fund  always  deducted  by  the 
hon.  member  ? 

Hon.  Ml'..  BROWN— Yes ;  I  always  de- 
ducted it  from  the  debt;  but  T  did  not 
dciuct  these  local  funds  that  are  now  placed 
against  the  sum  of  S5,(.'00,000  to  be  borne 
by  the  local  governments. 

Ml!.  SCATCHERD— At  the  time  Con- 
federation takos  place,  there  will  be  a  debt 
weighing  upon  the  provinces  of  $83,000,000, 
upon  wliich  interest  will  have  to  be  paid, 
and  the  following  additional  debts,  so  far  as 
we  know,  will  be  immediately  contracted  by 
the  new  Government :  Intercolonial  Railway, 
§20,000,000. 


l.n 


Hon.  Mr.  BROWx\— No!  no!  Myhon. 
friend  must  surely  see  how  wrong  it  is  to 
make  such  a  statemeut.  It  is  quite  uncer- 
taiu  what  amuuut  will  be  thrown  upon  the 
Federal  Government  for  the  construction  of 
that  road  ;  but,  if  it  is  built  in  the  way  which 
has  been  suggested  by  the  Lower  Provin  -es, 
it  will  cost  uo  such  sum,  nor  anything  like 
the  sum,  mentioned  by  the  hou.  member  for 
West  Middlesex.  Of  course,  no  one  can  at 
present  tell  in  what  way  the  Federal 
Government  may  decide  that  it  shall  be  done ; 
but  if  it  is  done  in  the  way  of  a  bonus  to  be 
paid  on  the  completion  of  the  road,  and  on 
security  being  given  that  the  road  shall  be 
kept  open  for  a  certain  term  of  years,  it  will 
cost  nothing  like  the  sum  nicntioncd  by  my 
hon.  friend. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— We  have  no  such 
proposition  before  us. 

Hon.  xMr.  BROWN— But  I  believe  thj 
Lower  Provinces  have  such  a  proposition 
before  them  for  a  largo  section  of  the  road 
— a  proposition  for  a  bonus  ol  §10,000  per 
mile,  which  would  complete  the  whole  road 
for  a  sum  infinitely  less  than  my  hon.  friend 
has  mentioned.  Therefore,  my  hon.  friend 
leads  the  House  quite  astray  svhen  he 
dogmatically  puts  down  the  cost  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  at  §20.000.000. 

Hon.  Mr.  HO!/rON— Hon.  Mr.  Tilley 
says  it  will  cost  $12,000,000. 

Hon.  xMr.  BROWN— Perhaps  Hun.  Mr. 
TiLLEY  thinks  tliat  it  may  cost  that  sum, 
but  there  are  other  hon.  gentlemen  who  arc 
quite  as  woll  able  to  judge  of  the  matter  as 
my  hon.  friend,  Mr.  TiLLEY,  who  place  it  at 
SS,000,000;  and  the  money  that  will  be 
necessary  for  the  purpo.se  will  be  borrowed 
under  the  Imperial  guarantee,  at  a  rate,  I 
presume,  not  exceeding  02  per  cent. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— I  would  a.^k  my 
hou.  friend  the  President  of  the  Council  if 
he  has  not  stated  that  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way would  cost  S;iG,00().(t!ti;  or  !?1S  (l()(»,000? 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Hun.  Mil.  liRO\VN — it  i«i  quite  probable; 
my  impression  at  one  time  was  that  it  would 
co.st  S15,UOO,000  ;  but  then  this  was  always 
based  on  the  idea  of  its  being  built  by  the* 
Governtncnt,  and  it  was  oik;  of  my  strongest 
obj(»cli  na  t  >  the  bchenie  that  the  honorable 
geuileuu'n  who  now  eon.'^titutc  the  Opposi- 
tion intended  U)  build  it  at  the  public  cost, 
and  lun  it  at  the  public  cost 

Hon.  M»  IIOLTON— Hon.  genllemcn 
who  now  form  the  Opposition  'f 

Hon.  .Mk.  BROWN — I  am  not  speaking 


of  the  hon.  member  for  Chateauguay,  but  of 
his  letiders. 

Hon.  xMr.  tJOLTON— Will  the  honorable 
gentleman  ple:ise  refer  to  those  he  moans 
more  soecifically  ? 

Hon.  Mr  BROWN— The  hon.  gentleman 
who  sits  at  his  side  is  one  of  them. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Surely  the  hon. 
gentleu'.an  does  not  refer  to  my  hon.  friend 
the  member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  *'r 
Dorion)  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  member 
for  Bagot  (Hon.  Mr.  Lafuamroise). 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— No;  the  hon. 
member  for  Bagot  only  joined  the  Gov^crn- 
ment  in  1863. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  member 
for  Cornwall  (Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald),  is  at 
any  rate  fully  responsible. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— The  government 
of  my  honorable  friend  (Hon.  J.  S.  .Mac- 
donald) had  a  proposition  before  it  some- 
what similar  to  thi.«,  and  which  was  to  build 
a  railway ;  but  it  was  not  said  by  what  means. 
You.  however,  have  bound  yourself  to  build 
a  railway,  and  if  you  do  not  find  a  company 
to  construct  it,  you  will  have  to  build  it  and 
keep  it  open  at  your  own  cost. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Not  exactly ;  and 
there  is  already  a  proposal  to  build  a  large 
portion  of  the  line. 

Mr.  SCATCHKRD-I  think  the  course 
which  the  debate  has  taken  shows  ihe 
absolute  necessity  that  the  Government 
should  have  brought  down  a  statemeut  of 
the  expense  of  this  road,  so  that  members 
might  have  been  able  to  form  sone  opinion 
in  regard  to  its  cost.  They  might  have 
called  upon  the  engineer  who  surveyed 
the  :  oute  to  make  s  )mc  approximation 
of  the  probable  outlay.  When,  in  the 
absence  of  such  information,  I  rise  in  my 
place  and  say  that  according  to  the  best 
data  at  my  command,  it  will  cost  §20,00",- 
OUO,  I  am  met  by  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  protesting  against  my  making  sm-h 
a  statement.  But  when  I  ask  my  honontblo 
friend  if  he  hum  not  stated  that  it  will  cost 
§10,000,000  or  §18,100,000,  he  replies  that 
he  might  have  said  if  would  eost  $15,OOU,000. 
So  that,  according  to  my  hon  frirnd  himself, 
it  is  sale  to  assume  that  for  the  Intercolonial 
Railway,  the  debt  will  be  increased  by 
§  la, 000,000.  This,  then,  is  one  of  the  new 
debts  the  new  Governineut  will  be  called 
upon  immediately  to  contract.  Then  another 
debt  will  be  required  for  the  deleiiees  of  the 
country.    1  put  this  sum  down  at  §t),ilOO,000. 


755 


But  the  Hon.  President  of  the  Council  says  it 
isompossible  to  say  what  the  defences  will 
co.^^t,  and  they  may  cost  a  great  deal  more. 

Hon.  Mb.  BROWN— The  hon.  -entleman 
should  state  more  cavefuUy  what  I  said.  I 
did  not  speak  of  his  country  simply,  but  of 
the  whole  defences — those  to  be  uiulertaken 
by  the  Imperial  Government  as  well. 

Mil.  SCATCHERD— I  refer  to  the  forti- 
fications required  ior  Quebec,  Montreal, 
I<^in2ston,  Toronto  and  Hamilton.  It  is 
impossible  for  us  to  form  any  estimate  of 
what  defences  may  be  required  in  St.  John 
and  Halifax,  and  other  portions  of  the 
Lower  Provinces.  But  certainly  the  sum 
which  will  be  required  for  the  defences  aiid 
for  the  armament  of  those  defences  in  Canada 
will  not  be  less  than  $6,000,000.  Adi  this 
and  the  sum  required  for  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  to  the  debt  already  existing,  and 
it  will  be   found   that,  almost  at  the   outset 


of 


the   Federation    would    labor 


debt 


amouu' 


ing 


to 


Us  career, 
under    pressure    of    a 
about  1110,000,000. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Oh  !  no,  no. 

Mr.  SCATC herd— The  fact  is  undeni- 
able.    Almost  from  the  first  day  of  its  exis- 


tence, the  new  G-overument   will  be  call 


ed 


upon  to  pay  interest,  on  account  of  public 
del>t,  to  the  amount  of  $3,809,668  for 
Canada;  $750,000  for  Nova  Scotia  and  New 
Brunswick,  and  $59,833  for  Newfuundlaud 
and  Prince  Edward  Island ;  then  there  is, 
over  and  above  the  subsidy  of  eighty  cents 
per  bead,  the  sum  of  $115/200  to  be  paid 
yearly  to  Newfoundland,  and  $88  900  to  be 
paid  annually  to  Prince  Edward  Island.  To 
this  must  be  added  the  interest  on  the  out- 
lay for  the  Intercoiooial  Railway.  It  has 
been  stated  that  mo;!ey  for  this  purpose  can 
be  borrowed  at  three  and  a  half  per  cent  , 
but  there  is  uothing  tu  show  that  the  ar- 
rangement proposed  to  be  entered  into  by 
the  Macdonald-Sicotte  Government,  some 
two  or  three  years  ago,  in  reference  to  the 
borrowing  of  money  at  three  and  a  half  per 
cent.,  can  now  be  carried  out.  We  have  no 
reason  to  believo  that  the  proposed  Federal 
Government  will  be  able  to  borrow  money 
on  the  same  favorab  e  terois ;  and,  if  the 
interest  charged  is  at  the  rate  of  five  per 
cent.,  there  will  be  nearly  $1,000,000  to  be 
paid  annually  as  interest  on  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  debt  alone. 

Hon.  31  It.  BBOWN— A  million  of  dollars ! 
Five  [  jr  cent,  interest  on  money  borrowed 
on  the  credit  of  the  Imperial  Governiiient ! 


Mr.  SCATCHERD— What  has  been 
shown  us  to  the  contrary? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— My  hon.  friend 
must  have  heard  the  statement  of  an  arrange- 
ment bei:  g  made  with  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment for  burrowing  the  necessary  funds. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— I  read  in  the  pam- 
phlet recently  published  by  the  hon.  mem- 
ber for  Montmorency  ("Hon.  Mr.  Cauchon), 
who  is  a  warm  supporter  of  the  Government, 
and  is  supposed  to  bo  an  authority  on  this 
subject,  that': — 

The  population  of  Newfoundland  being  130,000> 
$25  per  head  would  establish  its  debt  at  $3,250,- 
000,  and  it  would  thus  he  placed  on  a  level  with 
the  population  of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  and  New 
Brunswick  with  regard  to  their  respective  figures 
of  population. 

I^ut  as  that  province  owes  $946,000,  we  must 
dfeduct  this  amount  from  the  .$3,250,000  ;  this 
would  give  a  result  of  $2,3'i4,000,  on  which  the 
Federal  Government  will  have  to  pay  to  New- 
foundland an  annual  interest  of  five  per  centum, 
viz:  $115,200. 

But  if  the  money  can  be  obtained  at  three 
and  a  half  per  cent.,  why  is  it  proposed  that 
the  Federal  Government  shall  pay  interest 
at  the  rate  of  five  per  cent,  to  the  Provinces 
of  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Edward  Is- 
land ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Does  not  my  hon. 
friend  see  how  this  is,  and  how  unfair  his 
conclusions  are?  The  reason  why  we  are  to 
pay  these  provinces  five  per  cent,  is,  that  we 
are  about  to  throw  upon  them  a  large  share 
of  the  burden  of  our  public  debt,  upon  which 
five  per  cent,  interest  is  paid;  if  the  people 
of  Newfoundland  and  Prince  Edward  Island, 
who  have  little  or  no  debt,  assume  debts  of 
th'j  other  provinces,  for  which  they  have  to 
pay  five  per  cent,  interest,  it  is  only  fair  and 
just  that  thoy  should  get  their  five  per  ceut. 
back  again. 

Mr.  SCAT(,1HBRD— The  Hon.  President 
oi'  the  (JouncJl  says  that  at  present  we  pay 
five  per  cent,  on  our  indebtedness,  but  that 
in  future  we  shall  not  pay  so  high  a  rate. 

H"N.  Mr.  BROWN— No  one  said  so. 
What  I  said  was  that  the  Imperial  Govern- 
mejt  would  guarantee  the  interest  on  the 
money  to  build  the  Intercolonial  Railway, 
and  that  we  should  have  to  pay  interest 
according  to  the  terms  on  which  the  Imperial 
Government  would  be  able  to  borrow,  which 
will  be  about  3J  per  cent. 

M'v  SCATCHERD— And  supposing  the 
money  is  obtained  on  these  favorable  terms, 


756 


the  interest  for  the  Intercolonial  Railway 
debt  will  be  hall  a  n  illion  of  dollars. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— 8350,000. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— At  the  reduced  rate 
of  interest,  the  Federal  Government  will  start 
with  an  annual  burden,  in  the  shape  of  inter- 
est, of  at  least  $5,000,000.  I  had  put  the 
sum  down  at  S6  158.851. 

Hon'.  Mr.  BROWN— How  much  do  s 
my  hon.  iriend  make  the  diflference  in  the 
interest— SI.  158,851? 

Mr.  SCATCniERD— Yes. 

Hon.  Mk.  BROWN— My  hon.  friend  i« 
entirely  wrong  in  his  calculations.  But  will 
my  hon.  friend  answer  this  question  :  How 
much  additional  money  shall  we  receive  into 
the  treasury  in  the  shape  of  customs  duties 
from  the  Lower  Piovi:  ces  ? 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— But  wc  are  given  to 
undorf^tand  th-it  t.,e  customs  duties,  instead 
of  being  increased,  will  be  decrca-ed.  If, 
however,  the  Lower  Provinces,  which  now 
pay  on  an  aver.-ge,  we  will  say  5  per  c^nt.. 
sliall  be  Called  upon  to  pay  at  least  20  per 
cent.,  and  up  to  40  percent.,  they  will  never 
agree  to  C'lnfederation. 

Ho.N.  Mr.  BROWN— My  hon.  friend  is 
all  wrong  in  his  fiiiuri  s,  but  that  is  really 
not  the  point.  When  he  says  that  the 
interest  will  be  increased,  heshoull  also  state 
what  we  are  to  get  back  in  the  shape  ol 
customs  fluties  from  the  Lower  Provinces. 
What  is  the  use  of  giving  one  side  and  not 
the  other  ? 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— I  think  that  any 
person  who  will  seriously  contemplate  this 
proposition  of  the  Government,  must  come 
to  the  conclusion  that  this  Confederation 
scheii  e  is  nothing  more  or  le.*s  than  a  scheme 
to  construct  the  Intercolonial  Railway. 
(Hear,  hear.)  If  it  was  not  necessary  for 
some  parties  that  that  road  should  be 
constructed,  we  should  have  had  no  Con- 
federation scheme  Another  objtction,  to 
my  midd,  on  the  face  of  these  resolutions, 
has  reference  to  the  ftub>idy  of  80  cents  per 
ht-ad.  The  6ith  resolution  provides  that 
the  General  Government  shall  pay  80  cents, 
per  head  of  the  population  of  1"<)I  to  the 
several  provinces  for  local  purposes  : — 

Upper  Canada $1,11G,872 

Lower  Canada 88K,6.U 

Nova  Scotia 2(i4,()85 

New  Brunswick 20I,6H7 

Newfound  I  md 101,000 

Prince  Edward  Island G4,505 

I  think  it  will  bo  admitted  by  every  member 


from  Upper  Canada,  that  if  the  people  of 
Upper  Canada  had  represeritation  by  popu- 
lation, they  would  have  no  desire  to  change 
the  present  sy.-^tem  of  government.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  in  Upper  Canada  contend  that 
we  pay  seventy  per  cent  of  the  taxation, 
while  Luwor  Canada  pays  only  thirty  per 
cent.  Now,  what  will  be  the  eflFejt  of  the 
64th  resolution  ?  Under  that  resolutinn, 
Upper  Ci'uada  will  receive  a  subsidy  of 
81.116,000,  and  on  the  principle  which  has 
always  been  contended  for  in  Upper  Canada, 
the  proportion  of  that  sum  which  Liwer 
Canada  will  pay,  as  a  member  of  the  Con- 
federation, will  be  thirty  per  cent.,  or  say 
$835,010,  while  Upper  Canada  will  pay 
sevtnty  per  cent.,  or  S781.000.  We  have 
been  pajing  the  larger  proportion  of  the 
taxation,  and  Lower  Canada  the  smaller 
proportion,  and  the  object  of  going  into  this 
Confederation  is,  that  the  local  guvernments 
should  have  the  management  of  their  own 
local  aflFairs,  and  that  we  should  raise  the 
money  nece-sary  for  our  own  loc;.l  purposes, 
while  Lower  Canada  thould  laise  the  money 
necessary  for  her  local  purp  ses.  But  in 
this  instance,  the  General  Guvernment  will 
collect  that  money  in  Up|)er  Ca::ada  in  the 
large  proportion  which  L  have  ju^t  stated; 
on  the  other  hand,  Lower  Canada  will  net  a 
subsidy  of  §888,000.  Uppc  Canada,  as 
a  member  of  the  Confederation,  will  pay 
§621,000  of  that  sum,  according  to  the 
admitted  ratio  in  which  she  contributes  to 
tlie  public  exchequer,  and  Lower  Canada 
will  pay  30  per  cent.,  or  $267,000. 

Mr.  LOPE  MACKENZIE— The  hon. 
gentleman  is  entirely  mistaken  iu  his  argu- 
ment. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD —  By  this  anange- 
raent.  then,  Upper  Canada,  iu  comparison 
with  Lower  Canada,  will  Day  to  the  General 
Government  yearly,  for  all  time  to  come,  in 
excess  of  Lower  Canada,  $286,000  more  than 
she  would  pay  were  these  subs. dies  collected 
direct  Irom  each  province. 

Ho.N.  Mr  BROWN- -The  calculation  of 
my  hon  friend  is  entirely  incorrect.  But  I 
do  not  wish  to  interrupt  him,  unless  he  de- 
sires it. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— I  have  no  objection. 
Is  not  the  principle  on  which  1  have  ujade 
the  calculation  correct  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN--N0,  it  is  not  cor- 
rect. The  hon.  gentleman  should  remeiubor 
that  the  relation.s  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada  will  bo  entirely  changed  when  all 
these  provinces  are  brought  together. 


757 


Mr.  SCATCHERD— If  there  is  no 
ctiaoge,  the  principle  is  correct. 

Hon  Mr.  BROWN — Of  course,  so  far  as 
Upper  Canada  and  Lower  Canada  are  con- 
cerned. But  the  hon.  gentleman  must  see 
that  hy  the  introduction  of  the  Maritime 
Provinces  into  the  union,  an  entire  change 
is  made  in  the  relations  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada.  There  will  not  only  be  a 
change  in  the  way  in  which  the  taxes  con- 
tributed by  the  people  reach  the  treasury, 
but  an  immense  chan^ae  also  in  the  way  in 
which  those  moneys  will  be  distributed, 
and  by  both  Upper  Canada  will  profit. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— The  hon.  gentleman 
admits  that  the  principle  is  correct,  and, 
unless  as  affected  by  altered  circumstances,  it 
will  bri  g  out  the  result  I  have  stated. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— But  we  know  what 
the  circumstances  will  be.  The  honorable 
gentleman  should  take  up  the  whole  of  the 
financial  arrangements  of  the  scheme.  It  is 
not  fair  to  take  up  a  mere  portion  of  them. 
If  he  had  looked  at  the  commercial  tables  of 
all  the  provinces,  he  would  have  seen  that  his 
calculations  were  entirely  erroneous. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— What  I  say  is  this, 
that  if,  instead  of  paying  all  the  local  gov- 
erninei)ts  this  subsidy  of  80  cents  per  head, 
Upper  Canada  had  been  left  to  collect  from 
her  own  people  her  SI,  116,000,  and  Lower 
Canada  to  collect  from  her  people  the  $888,000 
which  she  is  to  receive,  that  would  have  been 
what  we  have  been  contending  for  in  Upper 
Canada. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— No  doubt. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— Well,  we  have  always 
contended  that  we  were  willing  to  collect  the 
moneys  required  for  our  own  local  purposes  in 
Upper  Canada,  and  that  Lower  Canada  should 
do  the  same.  We  are  entitled,  according  to 
that  principle,  to  $286,000  more  than  we 
shall  receive  ;  and  the  proposed  arrangement, 
therefore,  I  say  is  unjust;  otherwise  we  have 
been  contendinar  for  what  was  incorrect  for 
the  last  ten  years.  It  should  have  been  made 
part  of  the  scheme,  that  whatever  Upper 
Canada  required  for  her  local  expenditure 
should  be  obtained  by  taxes  levied  on  her 
people,  and  that  whatever  Lower  Canada 
required  for  the  like  purposes  should  be  levied 
in  the  same  way.  But  that  is  not  the  scheme, 
60  that  we  gain  nothing  with  regard  to  our 
paying  more  than  we  receive,  which  has  been 
our  complaint  hitherto. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  am  surprised  that 
my  honorable  friend  should  go  so  far.  I 
agree  with  him  so  far  aa  my  own  judgment  is 


concerned,  that  it  would  have  been  a  denrable 
arrangement  if  we  could  have  cot  each  pro- 
vince to  collect,  by  direct  taxation,  the  moneys 
it  required  to  meet  its  own  local  expenditure. 
But  the  honorable  gentleman  must  not  say 
that  because  we  have  not  got  that  length,  we 
leave  the  matter  exactly  as  it  was.  There  is 
a  very  great  change,  and  tho  proposed  system 
is  much  more  just  than  that  existing  hitherto. 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— But  will  the  hon. 
gentleman  not  say  that  it  would  have  been 
desirable  that  those  sums,  inst  ad  of  being 
collected  by  the  General  Gtivcrnnietit,  should 
have  been  colloct>d  by  each  province? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Ctrtaiuly  ;  that  was 
what  I  contended  for.  But  we  had  not  the 
making  of  the  whole  of  the  bargain ;  and 
surely  the  honorable  2:cntlenian  cannot  contend 
that  because  wo  did  not  get  everything  our 
own  way,  we  should  therelbre  give  up  the 
whole  scheme.  I  apprehend,  however,  it  will 
be  found,  if  this  scheme  goes  into  operation, 
that  the  burdens  on  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  will  be  very  different  liom  what  they 
have  been  in  times  past. 

Mr.  SCATC  .ERD— Well,  the  honorable 
gentleman  adnjits  th  t  Upper  Canad*  will 
not  gft  in  this  scheme  all  he  contended  for, 
and  I  say  that  if  'his  scheme  pocs  into  oper- 
ation, the  position  of  Upper  Canada  will  be 
no  better  than  it  wa-  beibve.  I  jiive  this  as 
a  glaring  instan  e — there  are  others  which 
cannot  so  readily  be  detected — of  the  way  in 
which  the  just  claims  and  interests  of  Upper 
Canada  have  been  overlooked,  I  do  not  see 
hew  honorable  gentlemen  will  be  able  to  an- 
swer the  charges  brought  against  them  by 
their  constituen's,  that  they  have  deliberately 
agreed,  that  for  all  time  to  come  there  shall 
be  that  advantage  of  one  section  over  the 
other.  If  Upper  C  n  ada  is  to  get  no  more 
benefit  from  the  Confederation  than  I  can 
find  in  these  resolutions,  I  am  at  a  loss  to  see 
how  she  is  benefited  by  them.  The  expense 
of  an  Intercolonial  Railway  is  to  be  saddled 
on  her  farmers  and  her  people  generally — 
they  are  to  pay  the  larger  portion  of  that 
expense,  and  that,  so  far  as  I  ca  see,  is  to 
be  the  grand  efl'ect  of  this  scheme.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Another  objection  I  have  to  the  pro- 
ject relates  to  the  proposition  with  reference 
to  the  Constitution  of  the  Legislative  Coun- 
cil. I  say  it  is  a  retrograde  step  to  do  away 
with  the  elective  principle  in  the  Legislative 
Council —  (hear,  hear) — and  a  step  that  will 
be  very  unpalatable  to  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada.     I  do  not  see  why  the  large  province 


758 


of  Canada,  containing  a  population  of  two 
and  a  half  millions,  sliouM  have  been  obliged 
at  the  Conference  to  give  up  a  point  involv- 
ing so  important  a  principle,  to  the  small 
provinces  containing  a  population  of  only 
800,000.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  say  take  those 
resolutions  from  first  to  last — there  are  seven- 
ty-two of  them — let  any  man  read  them,  and 
he  cannot  fail  to  come  to  the  conclusion 
that  from  the  first  to  the  seventy-second,  it 
is  concession  after  concession  on  the  part  of 
Upper  Canada  to  those  Lower  Provinces. 

Col.  HAULTAIN  — What  does  New 
Brunswick  say  ? 

Mr.  SCATC HERD— What  I  say  is,  that 
I  cannot  see  why  this  large  province  sliould 
have  been  overruled  at  that  Conference  with 
reference  to  this  question  of  the  Legislative 
Council.  What  did  it  matter  to  New  Bruns- 
wick if  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  desire  to 
have  their  legislative  councillors  elected? 
If  New  Brunswick  desires  to  have  hers  nom- 
inated by  the  Crown,  let  it  be  so  ;  but  why 
prevent  Upper  Canada  from  having  hers 
islectcd  by  the  people  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Then 
the  43rd  resolution  I  consider  objection- 
able. The  first  cbuse  of  that  resolution 
authorizes  New  Brunswick  to  impose  du- 
ties t»n  the  export  of  timber,  logs,  masts, 
spars,  deals,  and  sawed  lumber.  If  this  In- 
tercolonial Bailway  is  constructed,  it  will 
have  very  little  passenger  tr.iffic  during  a 
large  porti'.m  of  the  year,  and  I  suppose  it 
will  do  a  large  business  in  freight.  Like  other 
railways,  it  will  be  the  means  of  conveying  a 
large  quantity  of  timber  to  the  seaboard.  It 
appears  to  me  that  any  one  interested  in  the 
timber  business  of  this  country  must  see  that 
every  stick  of  timber  that  will  go  on  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  from  Canada  into  New 
Brunswick  will  be  liable  to  this  export  duty. 
I  ask  the  Honorable  President  of  the  Council 
if  that  will  i)i)t  be  the  fact  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  tliink  the  honor- 
able gentleman  could  not  have  been  present 
when  the  Honorable  Finance  Minister  ex- 
plained this  matter.  This  export  duty  is  the 
s;ime  as  is  paid  on  timber  in  this  country  in 
the  shape  oi  stutnpage. 

Mr.  SCATCHEllD-That    is    not    th, 
point;  no  timber  can  go  out  of  New  Bruns- 
wick without  paying  an  export  duty.     Is  not 
that  the  law  at  the  present  time? 

Hon.  Ma.  BROWN— No  timber  can  go 
from  our  ibrests  without  piyiuL'  a  duty  of 
AJ^auLly  the  same  kind. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLT  ON— Exactly  the  same? 


Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— What  is  the  differ- 
ence ? 

Hon.  Mr,  HOLTON— Does  the  honorable 
gentleman  say  that  this  export  duty  and 
stumpage  are  exactly  the  same  in  their  nature  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN — I  say  exactly  the 
same,  with  reference  to  the  lumber  from  which 
the  Government  of  New  Brunswick  now  de- 
rives a  revenue.  There  will  be  some  instances 
in  which  it  will  not  work  in  exactly  the  same 
way. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Such  as  timber  cut 
on  private  lands  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— There  will  be  a  dif- 
ference as  regards  that.  This  was  the  way  in 
which  this  arrangement  arose.  For  myself,  I 
regret  it  should  be  put  in  that  shape,  for  I  am 
opposed  to  all  export  duties.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Of  course  it  was  arranged  that  the  Local  Gov- 
ernments should  have  the  lands,  mines,  min- 
erals and  Crown  timber  of  their  respective 
provinces.  From  our  Crown  timber  here  we 
receive  a  large  revenue  in  the  shape  of  stump- 
age,  which  is  to  go  to  Upper  and  l^ower  Can- 
ada respectively  for  their  local  purposes.  But 
the  New  Brunswick  delegates  said — "  We  do 
not  levy  a  stumpage  duty  on  our  Crown  tim- 
ber as  you  do ;  we  find  it  better  to  levy  it 
in  the  shape  of  an  export  duty  " — and  we  conj- 
plied  with  tlieir  desire  that  they  should  have 
their  local  revenue  m  that  shape  as  au  offset 
to  our  stumpage  duty. 

Mr.  McKELLAR— I  think  the  question 
raised  on  this  point  by  the  V.onorable  member 
for  West  Middlesex  is  hardly  worth  discuss- 
ing, because  timber  from  Canada  will  never 
be  carried  over  the  Intercolonial  road.  It 
does  not  pay  to  carry  it  over  our  own  roads, 
and  it  world  certainly  never  be  carried  by 
railway  all  that  dlst;mcc.      (Hoar,  hear.) 

Mr.  T.  C.  WALLBRIDGK— It  is  carried 
from  Canada  to  Portland  over  the  Grand 
Trunk  for  shipbuilding  purposes.  ( Cries  of 
"No,  no.") 

Mr.  SCATCTTERD— IMy  honorable  friend 
from  South  Oxford  has  not  come  to  the 
point,  which  is  this,  that  it  is  not  right  for 
the  people  of  New  Brunswick  to  charge  this 
duty  on  timber.  What  right  have  they  to 
levy  an  export  duty  on  our  timber  ?  Yet 
this  resolution,  it  appears  to  mc,  would  give 
them  that  right. 

Hon.  :Mr.  BROWN— ]My  honorable  fiiend 
will  recollect  that  these  resolutions  are  to  be 
embodied  in  a  statute,  and  the  intention  will 
bo  much  more  clearly  stated  in  it.  It  was 
not  by  uoy  moans  the  iuteution  that  one  pro- 


159 


vince  should  have   the  right   to   impose   an 
export  duty  on  the  products  of  another. 

Mr.  SCATCHERD— It  seems  to  me, 
however  that  the  meaning  of  that  resolution 
is  clearly  as  I  have  stated  it.  This  scheme  is 
objectionable  on  the  face  of  it,  because  it  will 
largely  increase  the  public  debt  for  the  erec- 
tion of  defences  and  the  constf  uction  of  the 
IntercoL  nial  Railway. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— What  return  will 
we  get  for  that  ? 

Mr.  SCATC HERD— Why,  according  to 
the  extracts  I  have  just  read,  we  will  get 
nothing  at  all. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hou.  gentleman 
says  that  the  construction  of  this  railway  to 
the  Maritime  Provinces  will  involve  us  in  in- 
creased debt.  Now,  should  he  not  let  us,  in 
all  candor,  know  how  much  we  are  to  get  in 
the  shape  of  revenue  from  those  provinces,  as 
an  offset. 

Mr.  SCxlTHERD— It  is  generally  admit- 
ted that  we  will  receive  no  advantage  from 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway. 
Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Who  admits  it  ? 
Mr.  scat C HERD— I  say  that  this  road 
will  have  to  be  run  at  the  expense  of  this 
province,  and  not  only  that,  but  it  will  be  a 
piece  of  corruption  from  the  time  of  the  turn- 
ing of  the  first  shovelful  of  earth.     All  the 
officers  of  the  road  will  be  appointed  by  the 
Government,   and  it  will   be   an   everlasting 
expense.     It  could  not  have  been  better  ex- 
pressed than  it  was  by  the  hon.  member  for 
South  Oxford  in  his  own  ^paper,  that  every 
storm  of  snow  would  be  watched  with   the 
livelitst  anxiety  by  the  people  of  Upper  Ca- 
nada.    (Hear,  hear.)     I  know  it  is  said  that 
the  Government  will  open  up  the  North-West 
when  the  state  ol   the  finances  permit;  but 
Low  much  better  would  it  be  to  have  the 
money  taken,  which  is  to  be  appropriated  for 
this  unprofitable  railway,  and  expended    at 
once   in   opening  up  that   territory  ?     It   is 
doubtful  whether  there  is  any  laud  in  that 
part  of  the  country  through  which   the  rail- 
way is  to  pass,  fit  for  cultivation.     Then,  ac- 
cording to  the  view  taken  by  my  honorable 
friend  from  South  Oxford,  the  only  products 
shipped  on  it  will  be    those  grown  east   of 
Riviere  du  Loup.     (Hear,  hear.)     The  pay- 
ment of  subsidies  from    the  General  to  the 
Local  Governments,  the  doing  away  with  the 
elective  principle  in  the  Legislative   Council, 
and  the   construction   of    the     Intercolonial 
Railway,  are  to  my  mind  grave  objections  to 
the   Confederation.      I  consider  tliat  such  a 
measure  ought  not  to  become  law  until  it  has 


been  submitted  to  and  pronounced  upon  by 
the  people.  ( Hear,  hear.)  Yet  it  is  the  de- 
clared intention  of  the  Government  not  to  sub- 
mit it  to  the  people  for  their  opinion.  Now, 
I  think  the  Government  are  not  keeping  faith 
with  the  people  in  this  respect.  At  a  dinner 
in  Toronto,  in  November  last,  the  honorable 
member  for  South  Oxford  is  reported,  by  the 
Glohe  of  Nov.  4th,  to  have  said  :— 

Hon.  Mr.  Broivx — A  friend  asks  if  the  scheme 
is  to  go  into  operation  without  being  submitted 
to  the  people.  That  is  a  matter  for  the  different 
Parliaments  to  consider — whether  it  shall  be 
done,  or  whether  it  shall  not  be  done.  It  is  not, 
I  apprehend,  for  the  Administration  of  this  pro- 
vince, or  any  other  province,  to  say  that  this 
measure  shall  or  shall  not  be  sent  especially  to 
the  people.  We  are  in  the  hands  of  the  repre- 
sentatives of  the  people,  and  by  their  decision  we 
are  ready  to  abide. 

How  different  is  that  declaration  from  the 
conduct  of  the  Government  now,  when  they 
come  down  and  say  they  are  going  to  use 
every  means  to  carry  the  scheme  through 
without  submitting  it  to  the  people  !  (Hear, 
hear.)  At  the  same  dinner  there  was  another 
honorable  member  of  the  Government  present, 
the  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance,  and  I  will  read 
to  the  House  what  he  said  on  the  question  of 
appealing  to  the  people  : —  • 

They  would  have  desired  to  see  a  Central  Gov- 
ernment, extending  its  ajgis  over  ail  interests. 
But  there  were  difficulties  which  rendered  this  im- 
possible, and  in  meeting  these  difficulties  he 
trusted  that  the  measure  which  would  be  submit- 
ted to  the  people,  to  the  Imperial  Parliament, 
and  to  the  Provincial  Parliaments,  would  be 
found  to  be  one  which  protected  local  interests, 
while  national  interests  had  been  reserved  for  the 
central  power,  which  he  hoped  would  manage 
them  in  a  way  to  do  honor  to  the  race  from  which 
we  had  sprung.     (Cheers.) 

There  is  the  express  declaration  of  two 
Ministers  of  the  Crown  that  this  meu£ure, 
before  it  would  become  law,  should  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now, 
is  the  course  indicated  that  which  has  been 
adopted  ?  Is  the  scheme  to  be  submitted  to 
the  people  ?  No ;  they  bring  down  the  scheme 
and  say  that  it  must  be  passed  in  its  entirety, 
and  so  far  from  submitting  it  to  the  people, 
they  move  the  previous  question  to  prevent 
the  possibility  of  an  amendment  to  that  effect 
being  put.  Some  members  who  have  pre- 
ceded me  contended  that  it  would  be  un- 
constitutional to  submit  it  to  the  people,  and 
they  cited  cases  in  support  of  their  argument. 
But  in  those  cases.  Parliament  had  full 
power  to  dispose  of  the  question  then  before 


760 


it;  this  Parliament  has  no  power  to  dispose 
finally  of  this  question.  The  British  Par- 
liament can  act  with  or  without  the  consent  of 
t'lis  Parliaiient;  therefore,  it  appears  to  me 
that  the  cuses  cited  are  not  applicable  to  our 
case,  and  J  maintain  that  submitting  the  reso- 
lutions to  the  people  would  prevent  irritation 
hereafter.  (Hear.)  How  can  it  be  pietended 
that  if  the  measure  is  not  passed  now,  the 
time  will  never  occur  again  ?  So  far  as 
Upper  Canada  is  concerned,  I  think  she  might 
hope  to  obtain  such  a  scheme  as  this  at  any 
time — (hear,  hear) — and  I  aiu  willing  to  take 
the  respoa-ibility  of  voting  against  this  Con- 
federation scl  euie.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  JOHN  iMACDONALD  (Toronto) 
said — Mr.  Speaker,  before  recording  my 
vot3  on  this  question,  I  desire  plainly  to 
state  the  pusitiuu  wliiuli  I  occupy  in  regard 
to  it.  I  desiie  to  say  that  I  um  in  favor  of 
Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  fiist  reso- 
lution wliich  was  proposed  at  the  Quebec 
Conference  and  agreea  upon,  namely,  that 
a  Contcd.  ration  of  all  the  British  North 
America  Provinces,  on  principles  just  to  all. 
Was  desirable,  1  have  i.o  hesitation  in  saying, 
meets  with  my  entire  approval.  We  have 
been  told  that  the  Coulereuce  at  Quebec 
exhibited  one  of  the  grandest  spectacles 
which  the  world  ever  beheld.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  may  be  wioug,  but  I  fail  to  seo  it 
in  that  light.  1  am  prepared  to  award 
to  honoiaoie  geutlemeu  all  the  siucerity 
in  meeting  togeiher  to  settle  the  sec- 
tional ditheulLics  ol  this  country  to  which 
tliey  can  po3sibiy  lay  claim,  and  it  is  a  matter 
of  great  regret  to  me  that  I  fiud  myself 
to-night  compelled  to  record  my  vote  against 
hon.  g;;nde'.;.en  with  whom  it  ha.s  beeu  my 
pleasure  to  be  associated  ever  since  I  entered 
political  life.  But,  sir,  it  is  with  me  a  matter 
of  coubciciitious  cotjvictiou,  and  i  am  bound, 
whatever  the  cousequeuces  may  be,  to  follow 
those  convictions.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  think  that  hon.  gentlemen,  in 
bringing  this  scheme  down  and  saying  that 
we  musi  take  it  just  as  it  is  without  making 
any  amendment  to  it  whatever,  are  asking 
too  much.  (Hear,  hear.)  That  is  assuming 
the  document  is  perfect  iu  every  particular, 
or  as  nearly  so  us  possible.  If  we  are  to 
undertake  tite  discussion  of  this  question,  and 
yet  not  be  allowed  to  alter  it  in  any  single 
particular  so  as  to  ada[>t  it  to  the  circum- 
tances  of  the  province,  I  really  cannot 
conceive  for  what  purpose  this  House  has 
beeo  called  togetker.      (Hear,  hoar.)     We 


have  heard  a  good  deal  said  about  the  lead- 
ing Opposition  members  in  all  the  provinces 
having  received  invitations  to  enter  the 
Conference  for  the  free  discussion  of  the 
question;  but  I  would  ask,  sir,  on  what 
occasion  the  Opposition  of  Lower  Canada 
were  invited  by  the  Government  to  take 
part  in  that  Conference?  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  understood  the  lion,  member  for  Mont- 
real Centre  (Hon.  Mr.  Rose)  to  say,  that 
although  he  did  not  agree  with  some  of  the 
minute  details,  yet  rather  than  jeopardize 
the  adoption  of  the  whole  scheme,  he  was 
prepar'^d  to  vote  for  it  just  as  it  stands. 
Now,  I  would  Jisk  if  the  question  of  our 
School  law  is  a  minute  detail  ?  I  would  ask 
if  the  appropriation  of  the  debt  between 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada  is  a  minute  detail  ? 
I  would  ask  if  the  question  of  tl  e  defences 
of  the  country  is  a  minute  detail  ?  And  yet 
we  are  asked  to  vote  for  this  measure  without 
having  these  particulars  laid  before  us  for 
our  consideration.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  better, 
the  hon.  gentleman  says,  that  we  should  voto 
upon  it  in  ignorance  of  these  things,  and 
leave  the  result,  if  wrong,  to  be  righted  by 
future  legislators.  Well,  the  member  may 
vote  in  ignorance  if  he  prefers  to  do  things 
in  that  way,  but  as  I  am  constituted  (it 
may  be  a  fault  of  mine),  I  cannot  do  that. 
I  will  never  record  a  vote  in  this  House 
unless  I  know,  or  have  tried  my  utmost 
to  know  what  I  am  doing  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  Hon.  Minister  of  Finance,  in  the  very 
able  speech  which  he  delivered  at  Sherbrooke, 
alluded  to  the  great  difficulties  which  sur- 
rounded the  School  question.  He  intimated 
that  the  question  was  one  of  such  magnitude, 
that  a  great  deal  of  time  was  required  for  its 
consideration,  and  then  invited  the  cooper- 
ation of  all  intelligent  men  to  the  solution 
of  that  difficulty.  If  then  the  smaller  ques- 
tion is  of  so  much  importance,  why  should 
the  larger  one  be  forced  upon  this  House 
with  such  haste  ?  Does  it  require  les^  time 
for  cousideraiion  than  the  smaller  one  to 
which  I  have  alluded  ?  It  seems  to  me  very 
much  like  building  a  house  first,  and  after 
it  is  built  proceeding  to  examine  the  founda- 
tions. The  hon.  gentleuian  spoke  ol"  the 
improvement  which  this  scheme  had  already 
secured  in  the  value  of  our  securities  in  En- 
gland. Now,  it  docs  not  require  much  thoui^ht 
to  discover  that  it  is  an  easy  mutter  to  afiect 
the  stock  exchange  either  favorably  or  unfa- 
vorably. Securities  go  up  to-day  and  down 
to-morrow.     A  man  in  busiuess  may  get  an 


761 


endorser  which  may  for  a  short  time  improve 
his  credit;  so  we  seek  to  improve  our  credit 
by  an  alliance  with  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
Mr.  Speaker,  there  are  other  and  far  better 
ways  of  improving  our  credit,  the  very  best 
of  which  is  living  within  our  means,  bring- 
ing our  expenditure  within  our  income,  and 
establishing  our  financial  operations  on  a 
sound  and  healthy  basis.  Rest  assured,  the 
monied  men  of  England  wi'l  attach  much 
greater  imDortance  to  such  a  course  than 
any  alliance  we  can  possibly  make  with  other 
provinces,  for  the  purpose  of  improving  our 
credit.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well,  sir,  we  are 
told  that  this  great  scheme  is  to  settle  all 
our  sectional  difficulties.  I  may  perhaps  be 
very  dull  of  comprehension,  but  I  must  con- 
fess that  I  cannot  see  that.  We  have  difficul- 
ties among  ourselves,  as  scenes  that  have  tran- 
spired on  the  floor  of  this  House  have  fully 
proved,  and  we  seek  to  settle  those  difficulties 
by  forming  a  union  with  provinces  that  are 
at  loggerheads  among  themselves.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Now,  sir,  we  have  long  contended  in 
Upper  Canada  for  a  just  representation  in 
Parliament,  and  we  are  told  that,  because  we 
are  going  to  get  seventeen  more  members  than 
Lower  Canada  in  the  Federal  Legislature, 
all  the  difficulties  for  the  settlement  of 
which  representation  according  to  popula- 
tion was  sought,  are  to  be  thereby  remedied. 
I  cannot  see  that  that  result  will  follow, 
because  in  the  Upper  House  there  is  still 
to  be  an  equality  of  votes,  and  1  quote  now 
from  the  pamphlet  written  by  the  Hon  Mr. 
Cauchon  to  show  that  he  is  of  opinion 
that  any  advantage  which  we  gain  in  the 
Lower  House  will  be  completely  paralyzed 
in  the  Upper  Chamber.  He  says  : — 

The  Constitution  of  11840  only  stipulated  for 
equality  in  the  Lower  Hou.se.  Let  us  suppose 
that  the  majority  of  the  Le^^islative  Council  had 
chosen  to  adopt  a  project  of  law  which  would 
h-we  been  hostile  to  the  interests  of  Lower 
Canada ;  as  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  were 
equally  represented  in  the  Lower  House,  the  bill 
adopted  by  the  Upper  House  would  have  been 
certainly  thrown  out,  and  it  is  by  the  Lower 
House  alone  that  we  have,  up  to  this  time,  been 
able  to  protect  and  save  our  institutions,  taking 
into  account  also  the  good-will  shown  to  us  by 
Lower  Canadian  representatives  of  English  des- 
cent. Why  has  the  Legislative  Assembly  a'ways 
been  the  battlefield  with  respect  to  the  struggle 
that  has  been  going  on  for  the  last  fourteen  yea;3 
between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada  ou  the  ques- 
tion of  representation  by  population?  It  is 
because  there  alone  equality  has  existed,  and 
there  alone  could  be  found  the  means  of  solving 

fl7 


the  constitutional  problem.  If  then,  instead  of 
the  present  Constitution,  we  sub.stitute  local 
legislatures,  and  over  them  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment, we  shall  see  in  that  case  precisely  the 
inverse  of  that  which  we  have  always  observed 
iu  our  present  legislature,  that  is  to  say,  that  on 
the  occurrence  of  any  local  misunderstandinsr,  the 
struggle  will  be  carried  from  the  Lower  House 
to  the  Legislative  Council,  and  preciiely  fo  the 
re=:sons  that  we  have  adduced. 

Mr.  Speaker,  we  have  here,  in  the 
language  of  one  of  the  most  determined 
opponents  of  the  principle  of  representation 
according  to  population,  very  good  reasons 
given  for  coming  to  the  conclusion  that  the 
granting  of  increased  representation  in  the 
Lower  Legislature  will  amount  to  nothing, 
while  the  same  just  prii.ciple  is  denied  in 
the  constitution  of  the  Legislative  Council. 
I  hope  I  may  be  incorrect,  but  I  am  of 
opinion  that  if  thi.s  scheme  goes  into  opera- 
tion, we  shall  witness  the  difficulty  a  luded 
to  on  the  floor  of  the  Confederate  i  egislature 
in  less  than  six  months  after  its  organization. 
(Hear,  hear.)  And  the  unfair  representation 
which  Upper  Canada  will  have  in  the  Upper 
Chamber  must  exist  throughout  all  time. 
Nor  will  she  be  able  to  add  even  one 
member,  no  matter  how  great  may  be  the 
preponderance  of  her  population  over  other 
parts  of  the  Confederacy  And  this  equality 
of  votes  between  Upper  Canada  and  Lower 
Canada  will  act,  as  Mr.  Cal'CHON  tells  his 
Lower  Canadian  friends,  as  a  perfect  counter- 
poise to  the  legislation  of  the  Lower  House. 
In  connection  with,  this  subject,  there  is 
another  feature  of  the  scheme  which  is 
painful  to  contemplate,  in  which  we  are,  I 
think,  about  to  advance  backwards.  The  quali- 
fication of  a  Legislative  Councillor  is  now 
^8,000 ;  but  it  is  proposed  to  reduce  it  to 
84,UU0,  which  I  regard  as  retrogressive. 
And  in  the  case  of  Prince  Edward  Island 
and  Newfoundland,  the  qualificatio^i  may  be 
personal  property  as  well  as  real  estate — in 
other  words,  the  legislative  councillors  from 
those  provinces  may  be  peddlers  of  jewelry 
or  any  other  commodity,  whose  stock  in  trade 
may  be  burned  up  while  they  are  attending 
a  session,  rendering  them  unable  longer  to 
qualify.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  there  is  a  much 
worse  feature  than  that  :  it  will  have 
the  effect  of  introducing  into  the  Upper 
Chamber  a  class  of  needy  adventurers  who  in 
a  crisis  may  be  approached  witliout  very 
much  difficulty,  and  who  might  plead  th  ir 
own  circumstances  as  an  ample  apology  in 
quieting  their  consciences  for  the  votes  they 


762 


might  give.  Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  object 
further  to  this  scheme  on  the  ground  of  the 
cumbrous  and  expensive  machinery  of  the 
local  governments.  I  know  it  has  been 
asserted  that  it  will  not  cost  the  country  any 
more  than  under  the  present  system,  and  I 
will  entirely  give  up  my  position  if  any  hon. 
gentleman  can  prove  to  me  that  a  man  will 
not  go  behind  who  doubles  or  even  increases 
the  number  of  his  employes  without  at  ths 
same  time  increasiog  the  capital  and  extent 
of  his  business.  1  see  in  this  scheme  the 
introduction  and  increase — the  rapid  increase 
— of  a  large  number  of  consumers,  without 
correspondingly  increasing  the  producers  of 
the  country.  If  I  err  in  this  I  err  in  good 
company,  for  I  quote  the  words  of  the  Secre- 
tary of  State  for  the  Colonies,  Mr.  Card  well, 
who  says  on  this  point : — 

A  very  important  part  of  this  subject  is  the 
expense  which  may  attend  the  working  of  the 
Central  and  the  Local  Governments.  Her  Ma- 
jesty's Government  cannot  but  express  the 
earnest  hope  that  the  arrangements  which  may  be 
adopted  in  this  respect  may  not  be  of  such  a 
nature  as  to  increase,  at  least  in  any  considerable 
degree,  the  whole  expenditure,  or  to  make  any 
material  addition  to  the  taxation  and  thereby 
retard  the  internal  industry  or  tend  to  impose 
new  burdens  on  the  commerce  of  the  country. 

Now,  sir,  I  object  as  a  western  man 
(and  I  will  be  pardoned  if  I  allude  to  the 
sectional  question)  to  the  great  injustice 
which  will  be  done  to  the  people  of  Upper 
Canada  in  the  heavy  burdens  which  she 
will  have  to  bear  in  the  carrying  on  of  the 
General  Grovernment.  In  the  able  speech 
delivered  by  the  Hon.  the  Minister  of 
Finance  at  Sherbrooke,  he  said  that  when 
the  population  of  Canada  should  reach  five 
millions  (a  larger  population  than  that  of 
the  proposed  Confederation  at  present),  the 
revenue  which  would  be  derived  for  public 
purposes  would  not  be  a  farthing  more  than 
now.  One  hon.  gentleman  has  said  in  this 
House  that  it  is  as  cheap  to  govern  three 
millions  as  five  millions  of  people.  That  may 
be  true,  but  one  million  of  money  will  not 
go  as  far  as  five  millions  in  making  those 
local  improvements  which  Upper  Canada 
would  require,  and  to  which  tlie  people  of 
Upper  Canada  would  be  justly  and  fairly 
entitled.  Then  1  object  further  to  the 
scheme,  because  while  Upper  Canada  will 
contribute  the  largest  amount  to  the  general 
revenue,  she  will  also  have  to  bear  the  heavy 
share  of  defensive  and  other  public  works  in 

the  Mftritime  t'roviooen  and  Lower  Caoada. 


(Hear,  hear.)  I  object  further  to  the  in- 
definite postponement  of  the  opening  up  of 
the  North-West,  the  settlement  of  the  valleys 
of  the  Saskatchewan  and  the  improvement 
of  our  canal  system.  (Hear,  hear.)  There 
is  a  very  marked  difference  in  the  phraseo- 
logy of  two  of  the  clauses  of  this  scheme 
which  must  strike  any  one  reading  them  as 
extxaordinary.  The  one  declares  that  the 
Intercolonial  Kailway  shall  be  built.  There 
can  be  no  mistake  about  that,  nor  is  there 
any  possibility  of  doubt.  The  language  is 
definite — it  is  to  be  built  immediately. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  other  clause  (69)  reads 
thus  : — 

The  comunication  with  the  North-Western 
territory  and  the  improvements  reqjired  for  the 
development  of  the  trade  of  the  Great  West  with 
the  seaboard  are  regarded  by  this  Conference  as 
subjects  of  the  highest  importance  to  the  Feder- 
ated Provinces,  and  shall  be  prosecuted  at  the 
earliest  possible  period  that  the  state  of  the 
finances  will  permit. 

(Hear,  hear.)  This  certainly  is  the  most 
ambiguous  language  that  could  well  be  em- 
ployed in  reference  to  this  great  and  desirable 
work.  However,  we  are  told  that  this  is 
a  mistake,  and  that  the  opening  up  of  the 
North-West  will  go  on  simultaneously  with 
the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way; but  we  find  Hon.  Mr.  Tilley  asserting 
in  the  Lower  Provinces  that  there  was  no 
serious  intention  of  going  on  with  this  work 
at  present,  and  that  a  large  sum  was  to  be 
spent  at  once  in  New  Brunswick  in  ixprov- 
ing  its  defences.  If  I  may  be  allowed  to  give  an 
illustration  of  the  uncertain  and  evasive  cha- 
racter of  this  provision  of  the  scheme,  I  will 
quote  from  a  cartoon  in  Punch,  which 
I  have  here  before  me.  It  refers  to 
a  Russian  State  paper  on  Polish  afl'airs. 
England,  France  and  Austria  examining  it, 
thus  explain  it : — 

England,  ''  it  seems  to  mean — Eh  ?  H'm  !" 
France,   "  I  think  it  means— -Eh  ?  Ha  1" 
Austria,   "  I  suspect  it  means — Eh  ?  Ho  !" 
Chorus,  "  And  we  don't  know  what  it  means." 

Hon.  Mil.  McGEi^i — That  appears  to  be 
quite  correct  in  your  case. 

Mr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— Well,  my 
ignorance  is  pardonable  when  there  is 
so  much  ignorance  of  the  scheme  evdn 
among  members  of  tho  ^Ministry.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  can  fancy  the  (jtiestioii  of  the 
opening  up  of  tho  North-^^  v  st  conjiug  up  in 
tho  first  Bcsniou  of  the  Federal  iieginlaturo 
and  the  laaonor  io  wbi^b  it  will  bo  reoeirftd 


763 


New-Brunswick  will  say  :  "  Oh  we  cannot 
go  on  with  this  work  until  the  Intercolonial 
Kailway  is  completed,  and  New  Brunswick 
is  put  in  a  complete  state  of  defence." 
Nova  Scotia  will  say  :  "  When  the  finances 
permit  we  will  proceed  with  it ;"  and  all  the 
provinces  will  unite  in  saying,  when  this 
provision  of  the  Constitution  is  pointed  out 
to  them,  "  Oh,  we  don't  know  what  it  means." 
(Laughter.)  I  object  to  this  scheme,  sir,  on 
account  of  the  burdens  it  proposes  to  place 
on  this  country  in  the  shape  of  defence. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  have  had  glowing  accounts 
irom  the  Hon.  Minister  of  Agriculture  and 
others  about  the  territory  that  will  belong  to 
this  Confederation.  We  are  told  that  it  will 
extend  for  four  thousand  miles  from  ocean 
to  ocean  ;  and  will  it  be  believed  that  we  in 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  with  a  population 
less  than  that  of  the  city  of  London,  will  be 
called  upon  to  defend  such  a  frontier — a 
territory,  we  are  told,  as  great  as  the  conti- 
nent of  Europe  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  The  thing 
is  an  anomaly  that  no  country  in  the  world 
presents  except  our  own.  I  regard  this 
addition  of  territory  by  Confederation  as  a 
source  of  weakness  instead  of  strength  ;  and 
to  my  mind  the  casting  of  the  burden  of 
defence  upon  this  country  is  like  investing  a 
sovereign  with  all  the  outward  semblance  of 
royalty,  and  giving  him  a  dollar  per  day  to 
keep  up  the  dignity  of  his  court,  or  like 
expecting  the  engine  of  one  of  the  small 
ferry  steamers  which  ply  on  the  river  here 
to  Point  Levis,  to  propel  the  Great  Eastern 
across  the  Atlantic.  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir, lam 
not  unmindful  of  the  fostering  care  of  the 
British  Island  over  all  its  colonies.  I  am 
not  unmindful  of  all  that  England  has  done 
to  guard  and 'protect  her  colonies  through- 
oat  the  world,  and  to  develope  their  re- 
sources. But  when  we  see  by  the  telegraphic 
reports  of  to-day  that  the  Imperial  Grovern- 
ment  is  about  to  expend  £50,000 — or  if  you 
accept  the  correction  of  the  Government,  as 
stated  this  evening,  £200,000 — upon  the 
defences  of  this  country,  I  ask  in  all  serious- 
ness what  is  that  amount  for  the  protection 
of  an  exposed  frontier  such  as  our's  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— 1  do  not  wish  to 
interrupt  my  hon.  friend  ;  but  I  must  say 
that  when  he  has  heard  it  stated  that  this 
£200,000  is  to  be  granted  by  the  Imperial 
Government  simply  for  the  defence  of  the 
city  of  Quebec,  I  am  amazed  how  he  can 
get  up  here  and  charge  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment with  the  intention  of  giving  only  that 


amount  for  the  defence  of  the  whole  country. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— It  is  distinctly 
stated  in  the  report  of  the  debate  in  the 
House  of  Lords  that  that  is  all  the  Imperial 
Government  intend  to  appropriate. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— I  beg  the  hon. 
gentleman's  pardon,  but  it  is  not  so  stated. 
I  think  the  hon.  gentleman  will  find  that 
there  are  now  large  works  going  on  at 
Halifax  and  St.  John  ;  and  that  besides  the 
appropriation  for  works  at  Quebec,  the  ques- 
tion of  the  amount  to  be  contributed  for  the 
defence  of  Canada  elsewhere  is  still  under 
the  consideration  of  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment. 

Hon.  Me.  DORION— Oh,  no ;  only  the 
question  of  the  naval  defence. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Well,  the  hon. 
gentleman  may  not  accept  the  statement  I 
make,  but  I  am  quite  sure  the  hon.  member 
for  Toronto  will,  that  the  question  of  the 
defence  of  this  province  at  Montreal  and 
westward  is  still  under  the  consideration  of 
the  Imperial  Government,  and  at  this  moment 
is  undecided. 

Mr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— Of  course, 
I  was  aware  that  the  £200,000  proposed  to 
be  appropriated  were  for  works  at   Quebec. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— The  hon.  gentle- 
man should  not  have  stated,  then,  that  they 
were  for  the  defence  of  the  whole  of  the 
province. 

Mr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— I  am  free 
to  admit  that  this  was  a  mistake,  and  that 
the  amount  was  for  the  defences  of  Quebec. 

Hon.  Mr.  BROWN— Well,  it  was  very 
wrong  to  repeat  it. 

Mr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— Well,  I 
ask  that  if  the  Imperial  Government  will 
appropriate  only  this  sum,  where,  at  such  a 
period  of  imminent  danger  as  the  present  is 
said  to  be,  and  with  every  point  of  the  fron- 
tier perfectly  defenceless,  is  the  money  to 
come  from  to  place  all  parts  of  the  province 
in  a  position  to  resist  aggression,  and  who 
is  to  provide  it  ?  The  hon.  member  for 
Lambton,  the  other  night,  in  alluding  to  the 
ability  of  this  country  to  raise  and  maintain 
a  standing  army  for  our  protection,  instanced 
the  case  of  Denmark,  which  he  said  was  able 
to  support  an  army  of  20,000  men.  I  certain- 
ly thought  the  allusion  a  most  unhappy  one, 
and  one  would  have  imagined  that  the  recent 
history  of  that  country  would  have  prevented 
its  being  made.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  in  regard 
to  all  the  features  in  this  scheme  objec- 
tionable to  Upper  Canada,  and  adverse  to 


764 


its  interest,  Upper  Canadian  members  in  this 
House  say,  "  Oh,  let  us  have  Confederation, 
and  we  will  make  all  these  things  right  by 
subsequent  legislation."  Well,  I  say  to  every 
Upper  Canadian   that  if  he  goes   into  this 
treaty  with  a  view  of  violating  its  letter  and 
spirit  subscqucutly,  he  is  unfaithful   to  the 
duty  he  owes  to   Upper  Canada  as  well  as 
to  Lower  Canada  and  the  sister  provinces. 
(Hear,  hear  )    I  do  not  desiie  to  enter  into 
a  treaty  with  the  object  of  escaping  its  obli- 
gations at  some  future  time ;  and  it  is  because 
I  wish  to  do  what  is  right,  that  I  point  out 
those  things  in  the  scheme  that  I  believe  to 
be  wrong,  and  which,  unless  they  are   modi- 
fied, I  cannot  support  by  my  vote.     (Hear, 
hear.)     It  would  be  a  breach  of  faith  on  the 
part  of  Upper  Canada  ia  a  few   years   after 
this  to  say,  ''  We  want  an   increased  repre- 
sentation ;  we  want  a  larger  amount  for  our 
local  purposes,"  when  with  their  eyes  open, 
her  representatives  accepted  the  document 
now  before  the  House,  and   with  a  clear 
apprehension  of  what  they  were  doing,  made 
themselves  parties  to  this  treaty.  Why,  Mr. 
Speaker,  is  it  that  Lower  Canada  has  so 
long  resisted  the  cry  for  an  increased  repre- 
sentation   to   the   western    section   of    the 
province  ?    Simply  because  the  treaty  of  1840 
granted  to  both  sections  equality  on  the  floor 
of  this  House.     (Hear,  hear.)     1  regret  ex- 
ceedingly   that   the    Government  intend  to 
force  this  moasure  upon  the  people  without 
appealing    to    them   on    the    question,  and 
knowing  whether  it  meets  with  their  approval 
or  not.     (Hear,  hear.)    In  that  same  speech  of 
the  Hon.  iMinister  of  Fir3ance  to  which  I  have 
already  made  allusion,  one  of  his  strongest 
points  wi:-s  th.s,  that  the  Union  Act  of  1840 
was  forced  on  the  people  of  Lower  Canada 
without  their  consent.     (Hear.)     Yet,  Mr. 
Speak Kn,  what  do  we  find  ?     We  find  the 
intelligent  and  enterprising  people  of  New- 
Bruriswick  have  rejected  this  measure,  and 
that  it  is  not  favored  either  by  the  people  of 
Prince    h^dward     Island    or  Nova     Scotia. 
We  find,  further,  petitions  coming  in  every 
day  against  the  measure   from   all   parts  of 
Lower  Canada.     (Hear,  hear.)    And  yet,  in 
the  face  of  all  this  opposition,   the  Govern- 
ment presume  to  force  the  measure  upon 
the  country.     But  then  we  arc  told  that  the 
rejection  of  the  scheme  by  New  Jkunswick, 
Nova  Scotia   and  Prince  Edward  Island  will 
make    no   dilFerence,    although   they   were 
treated  with   here   on   equal*  terms,  Prince 
Edward  Island  having  the  same  vote  io  the 


Conference  as  Upper  or  Lower  Canada;  they 
assisted  in  framing  these  articles,  and  it  was 
to  conciliate  them  that  all  these  concessijns 
were  made.  We  are  told  thpt  this  is  a 
document  of  concessions  ;  but  I  declare  that 
I  have  failed  to  see  any  c  jncessions  whatever 
that  have  been  made  to  Upper  Canada  ;  they 
were  all  made  to  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
I  repeat  that  the  delegates  who  met  in 
Quebec  as  the  representatives  of  provinces, 
and  who  had  equal  weight  in  the  Con- 
ferenc  with  Canada,  are  now  to  be  treated 
as  if  they  were  of  no  account ;  that  if  the 
people  of  Canada,  representing  three-fourths 
of  the  whole  population,  decide  upon  it, 
it  will  be  carried  through.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Then  we  are  told  that  the  danger  of  war 
is  very  imminent.  I  fail  to  see  that.  The 
Government  brought  in  an  Alien  Bill, 
and  a  large  majority  in  the  House  voted 
for  it,  because  they  believed  it  necessary, 
at  the  time,  to  secure  the  peace  of  the 
country  j  and  in  like  manner  they  will  be 
supported  by  this  House  in  any  measure 
which  may  be  required  for  the  purpose  of 
adding  to  our  security.  But  I  ask,  sir,  if 
these  resolutions  were  carried  to-night,  how 
much  they  would  add  to  our  peace  and 
security  ?  What  increased  facilities  of  com- 
munication would  they  give  us  with  the 
Lower  Provinces,  until  it  was  possible  to 
build  the  Intercolonial  Railway  't  Very  many 
years  mrst  necessarily  elapse  before  that 
work  could  be  completed  ;  meanwhile,  the 
whole  question  of  union  could  be  discussed; 
objections  could  be  considered,  and  the  people 
could  be  consulted.  Thus,  without  hastily 
pressingcn  a  measure  which  mighteventuate 
in  disappointment  and  misery,  a  sound  and 
judicious  measure  might  he  devised,  which 
would  meet  with  the  approval  of  the  country, 
and  whose  principles  might  be  perpetuated 
with  the  happiest  results. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— That's  a 
fiict  !   (Laughter.) 

xMr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— Perhaps  1 
differ  with  many  in  regard  to  the  subject  of 
the  Intercolonial  Railway.  I  am  willing  that 
the  Intercolonial  Railway  should  be  built, 
and  I  am  willing  that  it  should  be  built 
at  once.  I  will  go  farther  than  that, 
and  say  I  am  willing  that  this  Parliameut 
should  grant  as  the  share  of  this  country  an 
amount  eufiicieut  to  justify  scund  commercial 
men  in  taking  up  that  work,  which  I  look 
upon  in  the  light  of  a  grout  commercial 
uadertaking.     That  is  the  idea  that  I  hold 


765 


in  regard  to  the  Intercolonial  Railway.     We 
should  then  know  how  much  the  road  would 
cost,  and  how  much  money  we  had  to  spend, 
and  by  placing  it  under  the  management  of 
sound,  judicious  commercial  men,  the  best 
possible  guarantee  would  be  afforded  us  of  its 
being  properly  worked. (Hear,  hear.)  I  do  not, 
for  my  part,  underrate  the  difficulties  which 
beset  the  hon.  gentlemen  who  now  occupy 
the  Treasury  benches.   However  much  others 
may  be  ready  to  charge  hon.  gentlemen  with 
having  lost  confidence  in  them,  I  am  free  to 
admit  that  my  confidence  in  hon.  gentlemen 
with  whom   I   have  hitherto  worked,  is  as 
strong  as   ever  it  was.     But  sir,  no  matter 
whether  that  confidence  were  strong  or  feeble, 
I  must  vote  on  this  question  as  I  conscien- 
tiously believe  it  is  my  duty  to  vote.     That 
course  I  have  ever  followed  since  I  have  had 
the  honor  of  a  seat  in  this  House,  and  that 
course  I  intend  to  pursue  so  long  as  I  conti- 
nue in  public  life.     Far  be  it  from  me  to 
withhold  from  honorable  gentlemen  that  full 
measure  of  credit  to  which  they  are  justly 
entitled.    I  believe  that  they  were  perfectly 
sincere  in  thus  coming  tocretner  to  endeavour 
to  bring  about  a  solution  of  our  constitutional 
difficulties,  and  I  hope  they  may  be  succesful 
in  their  efforts  in  that  direction.     And  if  in 
the  end  they  shall  accomplish  that  great 
object — if  they  shall  succeed  in  banishing 
strife   and   discord   from   the    floor   of  this 
House,   and  in  bringing  to   our  shores  an 
increased  mesure  of  commercial  prosperity, 
no  man  will  be  more  willing  to  ackoowledge 
his  error  than  I  shall,   and   no  one  will  be 
more  ready  to  join  in  giving  them  that  full 
measure  of  a  nation's   gratitude   to   which 
under  those   circumstances  they  will  be  so 
fully  and  fairly  entitled.   (Cheers). 
-•  Mr.  McKELLAR— It  is  very  late  in  the 
evening,  and  I  do  not  intend  to  speak  at  any 
great  len.th.     However,  I  think  it  is  proper, 
in  the  interests  of  a  considerable  portion  of. 
the  people  of  Upper  Canada,  that  I  should  call 
the  attention  of  the  House  to  this  fact,  that  a 
few  weeks  ago  a  very   large  and  influential 
meeting  of  the  citizens  of  Toronto  was  held 
in  that  city,  most  of  them,  I  believe,   being 
the  constituents  of  the  honorable  gentleman 
who   has  just   addressed  us,    and   to  which 
meeting  that  honorable  gentleman  was  invited 
for  the  purpose  of  discussing  that  very  mea- 
sure.    He  did  not,  however,  think  proper  to 
attend  ;  but  I  myself  was  there  ;  and  I  think 
he  has  treated  his  constituents  not  with  that 
courtesy  and  attention  which  they  had  a  ri^ht 


to  expect  at  his  hands.  (Hear,  hear.)  Why, 
sir,  did  he  not  attend  that  meeting,  and  throw 
on  it  that  flood  of  light  which  he  hns  shed 
abroad  amongst  us  this  evening  ?  (Laughter.) 
Well,  in  the  metropolis  of  Upper  Canada, 
where  many  of  the  mo.=t  influential  men  of 
that  section  of  the  province  were  assembled, 
on  a  motion  being  made  for  what  the  honor- 
able gentleman  now  conten  s,  an  appeal  to 
the  people — that  this  measure  should  be  sub- 
mitted to  the  popular  vote  before  being  dis- 
posed of  by  this  blouse — at  a  public  meeting, 
I  say,  in  the  metropolis  of  Upper  Canada, 
where  there  were  hundreds  of  the  leading  men 
assembled,  not  a  seconder  could  be  found. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  say  we  must  hold  that  hon- 
orable gentleman  responsible  for  not  going  to 
that  meeting  and  enlightening  his  constituents 
upon  this  very  important  subject. 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— Did  you  do  so  witi 
your  constituents  ? 

Mr.  McKELLAR — Yes,  the  question  was 
fully  discussed  by  them.  The  honorable  gen- 
tleman who  sits  in  the  Upper  house  as  the 
representative  of  the  two  counties  of  Essex 
and  Kent  was  elected  by  acclamation.  And 
why  ?  Because  this  Coalition  had  taken 
place,  and  this  scheme  of  Federation  was  in 
progress,  and  that  honorable  gentleman  came 
out,  openly  and  above  board,  and  declared 
in  his  speeches  and  in  his  address  that  he  was 
prepared  to  do  what  he  did  the  other  day  in 
the  Upper  House,  vote  for  every  paragraph  of 
these  resolutions.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  hon- 
orable memb  r  for  Toronto  (Mr.  John  Mag- 
don  ald),  however,  did  not  venture  to  go 
near  his  coustiuents,  although  they  were 
assembled  within  some  two  hundred  yards  of 
where  he  resides;  and  in  the  face  of  that  he 
conies  here  and  tells  us  we  must  have  an  appeal 
to  the  people.  If  ever  a  subject  was  brought 
under  the  attention  of  this  House,  which  met 
the  almost  unanimous  approv4  of  the  people 
of  the  country,  it  is  the  scheme  now  under 
discussion.  (Cheers  and  counter  cheers.) 
We  have  been  told  that  because  the  press  of 
the  country  support  the  scheme  nearly  with- 
out exception,  the  press  has  been  subsidized, 
and  yet,  up  to  this  moment,  they  have  not 
been  able  to  point  to  a  single  case  in  proof  of 
their  assertion.  It  is  paying  the  conductors 
of  the  press  of  Canada  a  very  poor  compliment 
to  say  that  they  could  be  bought,  even  were 
such  a  thing  to  be  attempted.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  press  of  this  country — the  uubought 
press  of  the  country — from  one  end  to  the 
other,  are  in  favor  of  the  scheme.     We  have 


766 


had,  too,  elections  for  thirty  or  forty  consti- 1 
tuencies  in  both  sections  since  the  scheme 
was  brought  forward. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD  —  Does  the 
honorable  gentleman  speak  of  municipal  elec- 
tions ? 

Mr.  McKELLAR — The  honorable  mem- 
ber alludes  to  those  elections  as  being  munici- 
pal elections,  but  I  spoke  not  of  the  little  mu- 
nicipality of  Cornwall,  and  the  hon.  gentleman 
need  not  therefore  be  in  any  way  alarmed, 
(Laughter.)  Almost  without  exception,  the 
elections  which  have  since  taken  place  Jiave 
been  in  favor  of  this  scheme  of  Federation. 
(Hear,  hear.-)  It  was  my  intention  to  have 
spoken  at  some  length  on  the  merits  of  this 
scheme. 

Dr.  PARKER  —  Move  the  adjournment. 
Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— No,  no, 
no. 

Mr.  McKELLAR — I  am  quite  willing  to 
drop  the  subject  in  the  meantime.  I  may 
state  that  if  it  is  thought  desirable  to  proceed 
to  a  vote  without  discussion,  for  my  part — 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  — I  must 
beg  the  honorable  gentleman  to  underhtand 
what  is  our  position  on  this  subject.  He 
stated  just  now  that  he  had  merely  risen  to 
answer  some  objections  which  were  made  by 
the  honorable  member  for  Toronto,  and  he 
appears  indispcsed  to  speak  this  evening. — 
Well,  the  honorable  gentleman  may  speak  at 
another  time.  It  is  only  half-past  twelve,  and 
we  may  very  well  sit  till  two — (oh,  oh) — so 
there  is  plenty  of  time.  And  as  we  know 
very  well  that  the  honorable  gentlemen  be- 
longing to  the  Opposition  are  desirous  of  dis- 
cussing this  question  at  greater  length,  we 
are  willing  to  listen  to  what  they  have  to  say. 
Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  am  willing 
to  stand  as  much  night  work  as  any  honor- 
able member  of  this  House,  but  it  is  a  little 
too  much  to  ask  us  to  sit  here  Jifter  twelve, 
night  after  night.  At  no  time  have  I  ever 
seen  any  success  attending  legislation  after 
midnight. 

Mr.  McKELLAR — I  simply  rose  at  the 
present  time  to  point  out  the  extraordinar}' 
conduct  of  the  honorable  member  for  Toronto. 
I  may  or  may  not  desire  to  trespass  upon  the 
attention  of  the  House  to-morrow.  But  if  I 
do  not  then  speak,  it  is  because  of  the  immi- 
nent danger  which  I  believe  we  are  in,  that 
the  debate  should  be  brought  to  a  speedy 
close.  In  case  I  do  not  address  the  House 
again,  I  desire  to  take  this  opportunity  of 
saying  that  I  am  entirely  in  favor  of  the  reso- 
lutions, and  that  I  shall  support  them  cor- 


dially, and  oppose  any  amendments  which 
may  be  offered  to  them ;  and,  in  taking  that 
course,  I  am  confident  that  I  am  doing  that 
which  will  be  endorsed  almost  unanimously 
by  my  constituents,  and  which  will  commend 
itself  to  at  least  three-fourths  of  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada.  If  I  believed  that  this 
measure  was  opposed  to  the  wishes  of  the 
people  of  Canada,  I  would  be  the  last  man  to 
press  for  a  vQte  upon  it  until  it  had  been  sub- 
mitted to  them ;  but  believing,  from  the  clear- 
est evidence,  that  the  scheme  meets  with  the 
almost  unanimous  approval  of  the  country,  I 
think  the  sooner  we  bring  it  into  operation 
the  better.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  JOHN  MACDONALD— I  may  per- 
haps be  allowed  to  state  in  explanation  that 
the  good  people  of  Kent  are  doubtless  favored 
with  a  representative  of  much  clearer  views 
and  sounder  judgment  than  he  who  repre- 
sents the  unfortunate  people  of  Toronto. 
But  I  would  just  say  to  that  hon.  gentleman, 
that  if  he  will  only  look  after  the  interests  of 
his  own  constituents,  I  will  try  to  look  after 
the  interests  of  mine.  There  is  this  difference 
between  the  hon.  gentleman  and  myself, 
that  when  the  scheme  was  first  announced, 
he  took  the  whole  thing  down  at  once,  whilst 
I  thought  it  too  weighty  to  be  thus  hastily 
disposed  of,  and  required  time  for  reflection. 
And  the  debates  which  have  taken  place  iu 
this  House — the  diversity  of  opinion  amongst 
Ministers  themselves  as  to  several  points  of 
the  scheme — convince  me  that  so  far  from 
its  being  understood  by  every  man,  woman 
and  child  in  Upper  Canada,  as  the  hon. 
member  for  Kent  stated,  and  as  he  would 
fain  have  us  believe,  it  is  far  from  being 
understood  in  the  country.  I  am  persuaded 
that  the  course  I  took  was  right.  I  can 
only  say  that,  if  the  honorable  gentleman 
leaves  this  House  with  skirts  as  clean  as  1 
intend  mine  shall  be  when  I  retire  from 
Parliament,  he  will  have  no  cause  to  reproach 
himself  for  anything  he  has  done  during  his 
political  career.  (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mil.  HOWLAND— I  desire  to  say  a 
few  words  in  reply  to  what  fell  from  my 
honorable  friend  the  member  for  Cornwall 
(Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald),  so  that  no  mis- 
conception should  exist  on  the  pai"t  of  the 
members  of  this  House  in  regard  to  the 
course  I  thought  proper  to  pursue  when  I  ' 
went  before  my  constituents,  after  having 
accepted  the  office  which  I  have  now  the 
honor  to  hold  in  the  Government.  From  the 
honorable  gentleman's  remarks,  I  think  it 
would  bo  inferred  that  I  had  accepted  office 


767 


subject  to  conditions,  and  had  left  it  to 
be  understood  that  amendments  would  be 
made  to  the  scheme  now  before  the  House. 
At  least  such  is  my  impression  from  what 
fell  from  my  honorable  friend.  I  feel  ex- 
tremely obliged  to  the  honorable  gentleman 
for  the  kind  manner  in  which  he  has  spoken 
of  me,  and  I  can  assure  him  in  return  that  I 
value  his  opinion  and  friendship  most  hi2;hlv  ; 
at  the  same  time,  it  is  proper  that  I  should 
say  a  word  or  two  in  reference  to  what  he  has 
stated,  in  order  that  no  misconception  may 
possibly  exist  on  the  subject.  1  placed  before 
my  constituents,  fairly  and  fully,  my  views  on 
this  important  question.  I  indicated  to  them 
that  there  were  some  parts  of  the  scheme 
which,  if  I  had  been  a  delegate  to  the  Con- 
vention, I  should  have  opposed  and  en- 
deavored to  modify.  At  the  same  time,  I 
stated  that  we  had  to  accept  it  as  it  was,  it 
being  in  the  nature  of  a  treaty,  or  reject  it. 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— I  am  sure 
my  honorable  friend  will  not  accuse  me  of  a 
desire  wilfully  to  misrepresent  his  position 
in  reference  to  this  matter.  What  I  meant 
to  say,  if  I  did  not  say  it,  was  this, 
that  the  scheme,  as  a  whole,  is  not  such  as 
the  Hon.  Postmaster  General  desires — that 
he  himself  told  his  constituerts  that  he  enter- 
tained objections  to  it ;  and  on  that  I  argued 
that  if  the  scheme  was  so  bad  as  to  be  unsatis- 
factory to  the  members  of  the  Government 
themselves,  it  was  not  fair  to  deny  to  the 
Opposition,  to  whom  it  was  still  more  dis- 
tasteful, the  opportunity  of  placing  on  record 
their  objections  to  it.     (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  GEOFFRION  moved  the  adjourn- 
ment of  the  debate. 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER  moved  in 
amendment  that  the  debate  be  resumed  at 
the  next  sitting  of  the  House  to-morrow,  as 
the  first  Order  of  the  Day  after  routine  busi- 
ness. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON  moved  in  amend- 
ment : — 

That  the  debate  be  adjourned  till  Monday  next, 
and  that  an  humble  Address  be  presented  to  His 
Excellency  the  Governor  General,  praying  that 
he  will  cause  to  be  laid  before  this  House,  in  the 
meantime,  all  information  submitted  to  the  Con- 
ference, as  well  as  any  that  may  have  since  come 
into  the  possession  of  the  Government,  relating 
to  the  various  important  subjects  referred  to  in  the 
resolutions  of  the  Conference ;  and  particularly 
all  information  respecting  the  route  and  cost  of 
the  proposed  Intercolonial  Railway,  the  proposed 
distribution  of  the  public  property  and  liabilities 
among  the  several  governments  v/hich  are  intend- 
ed to  replace  th«  pr«8«at  Qovernmant  of  thia  Prg. 


vince,  the  nature,  extent  and  cost  of  the  contem- 
plated improvements  of  our  inland  water  com- 
munications, the  rights  of  Canada  in  the  North- 
West  Territory,  and  the  cost  of  opening  up  that 
territory  for  settlement,  the  amount  required  to 
be  contributed  by  the  provinces  towards  the  pub- 
lic defence,  and  the  extent  and  value  of  the  pub- 
lic lands  of  Newfoundland,  in  order  that  this 
House  may  be  better  enabled  to  consider  the 
effect  of  the  [iroposed  constitutional  changes  on 
the  material  interests  and  the  future  political 
condition  of  the  country. 

The  honorable  gentleman  said — Mr.  Speak- 
er, I  shall  simply  say,  with  respect  to  this 
motion,  that  we  are  asked  to  adopt  conclu- 
sions come  to  by  the  Conference  of  delegates 
which  met  in  Quebec  in  October  last.  It  is  only 
right  and  proper — it  is  only  fair  and  reason- 
able— that  we  should  be  placed  in  possession 
of  the  data  upon  which  these  conclusions  are 
founded.  If  we  are  a  free  British  Parlia- 
ment, worthy  of  our  position  as  the  represen- 
tatives of  British  freemen,  we  will  insist  on 
being  placed  in  possession  of  all  the  informa- 
tion upon  which  these  resolutions  were  found- 
ed. I  think  there  can  be  no  reasonable  answer 
to  oppose  to  this  request,  and  I  feel  that  I 
should  be  doing  injustice  to  the  House  if  I 
detained  it  for  one  moment  longer  with  any 
argument  upon  the  subject.    (Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  a.  MACKENZIE— The  time  men- 
tioned is  too  short.  It  would  be  necessary 
to  adjourn  the  debate  for  two  months  at  least, 
in  order  to  get  the  information  here  sought. 
But  there  are  serious  omissions  in  the  reso- 
lution. The  honorable  gentleman  ought  to 
have  asked  for  the  number  of  engines  and 
cars  proposed  to  be  employed  on  the  railway, 
and  the  amount  of  traffic  which  is  expected 
to  be  carried  backwards  and  forwards  in  the 
course  of  a  year.  (Laughter.)  The  whole 
thing  to  my  mind  is  ridiculous.  (Hear,  btax.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.  CARTIER— I  am  sur- 
prised, sir,  that  the  honorable  member  for  Cha- 
teauguay  should  have  proposed  such  a  motion 
in  amendment  as  this — a  motion  which  has  no 
affinity  whatever  to  the  question  under  con- 
sideration. In  my  opinion  things  should  be 
called  by  their  right  names,  and  I  have  not 
the  least  hesitation  in  saying  that  this  motion, 
from  the  irrelevant  matter  it  contains,  is  en- 
tirely irregular — that  it  is,  in  fact,  an  absur- 
dity. (Hear,  hear.) 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION— This  is  the  only 
way  in  which  we  can  make  a  motion  for  get- 
ting information  from  the  Government.  The 
amendment  proposes  that  the  debate  shall  be 
adjourned  until  Monday  nest,  for  the  purpose 
of  affording  an  opportunity  to  the  Govemmeot 


768 


to  bring  down  the  information  which  they 
had  before  them  during  the  Conference  at 
which  the  resolutions  in  favor  of  Confedera- 
tion were  originate  1.  It  cannot  be  denied 
that  when  the  Hon.  Finance  Minister  and  bis 
collengues  agreed  that  $lf>0,000  should  be 
paid  for  the  unoccupied  lands  in  Newfoundland, 
they  must  have  had  wome  information  before 
them  as  to  the  value  of  those  lands,  and  whether 
they  consisted  of  one  acre  or  a  million.  There 
is  no  doubt  that  when  they  agreed  upon  what 
part  of  the  punlic  debt  of  ('anada  should 
form  p-.rt  of  the  debt  of  the  Contederation, 
they  had  a  statement  laid  before  them  upon 
which  that  agreement  was  based.  If  I  re 
collect  aright,  I  saw  ia  the  newspapers  a  state- 
ment that  the  Conference  had  adjourned  for 
a  day  or  two  in  oider  to  allow  the  Finance 
Ministers  of  the  several  provinces  to  make 
up  and  bring  before  the  Conference  a  state- 
ment respecting  the  debts  and  financial  po- 
Bitions  of  the  several  provinces.  Wei!,  this 
is  all  we  want  to  obtain.  We  want  the  same 
information  that  the  honoiable  gentlemen 
had  before  them  when  they  agreed  to  those 
resolutions  in  conference.  We  do  not  sup- 
pose that  they  went  into  the  consideration  of 
these  matters  without  any  inlormation  bel'ore 
them.  We  do  not  suppose  thar.  they  merely 
pucHsed  that  the  debt  of  Canada  was  §62, 
500,000,  au'l  guessed  in  the  same  way  at 
the  debts  of  the  other  provinces.  We  want 
the  same  opportunity  of  understanding  these 
resolutions  -  nd  of  coming  to  a  correct  du- 
cision  upon  th  m,  that  the  honorable  gentle- 
men themselves  enjoyed.  We  do  not  want 
an  hour's  delay  more  than  is  absolutely 
necessary  to  bring  down  the  inf  rmation 
and  enable  us  to  apply  it  in  judging  of 
tiie  merits  of  the  scheme.  (Hear.)  Honor- 
able gentlemen  say  it  will  require  months  to 
get  the  information.  Th"  honorable  member 
for  L  uubton  (Mr.  A.  MACKENZIE)  seems  to 
be  very  much  afraid  to  have  the  information 
broughtd  iwn,  lest  it  would  resultin  the  scheme 
not  being  carri.;d.  He  ought  to  remch.bcr 
that  we  havj  not  the  confidence  in  the  Hon- 
orable Attorney  General  r.ast,  nor  yet  in  the 
Honorable  Finance  Minister,  that  he  has. 
(Laughter.)  He  has  known  those  gentlemen 
for  u  long  time,  and  the  House  has  had  fre- 
quent opportunities,  during  past  sessions,  ol' 
observing  the  amount  of  confidence  ho  has 
always  reposed  in  them.  He  had  a  w.  nderful 
amount  of  conhdciice  in  the  Honorable  Fin- 
ance Minister  at  the  close  of  last  session,  wIhmi 
he  voted  for  the  mo;  ion  respecting  the  $100,- 
000  handed  over  to  the  city  of  Montreal  for 


the  payment  of  a  Grand  Trunk  railway  lia- 
bility. But  he  will  pardon  its  and  exercise  a 
little  patience  with  us  if  we,  who  have  never 
had  that  confidence  in  the  honorable  member 
for  Sherbrooke  since  he  has  been  Finance  Min- 
ister, desire  to  have  a  little  information  before 
we  vote  for  the  extravagant  scheme  which  he 
has  brought  before  us.  We  want  information 
mainly  respecting  the  finances,  the  Intercolo- 
nial Railway,  and  the  Crown  lands  of  New- 
foundland, ^rid  we  have  no  other  way  of 
placing  our  demand  in  a  shape  to  be  recorded, 
since  the  previous  question  has  been  moved, 
than  by  moving  for  it  in  amendment  to  the 
motion  for  adjourni'ig  the  debate. 

Hon.  Ma.  GALT— The  honorable  gentle- 
man is  going  into  the  merits  of  a  resolution 
about  which  a  point  of  order  has  been  raised. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION — 1  was  not  aware 
that  a  point  of  order  had  been  raised.  What 
is  the  point  of  order?  I  understood  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  East  to  have 
been  arguing  against  bringing  down  the  in- 
formation called  for. 

Hon.  Mr.  C ARTIER— No,  no,  not  at 
all.  The  Speaker  will  decide  whether  the 
resolution  is  in  order  or  not. 

The  SPEAKER— It  is  a  well  understood 
rule  ihat  no  amendment  to  a  motion  for  an 
adjournment  can  be  proposed,  unless  it  relates 
to  the  time  to  which  the  adjournment  is  pro- 
posed to  be  made.  The  first  portion  of  the 
motion  is  in  order,  or  would  be  in  order  if  it 
were  separated  from  what  follows,  and  pro- 
posed by  itself ;  but  I  cannot  compel  the  hon- 
orable mover  of  it  to  alter  it.  According  to 
the  best  of  my  judgment,  the  motion  is  out  of 
order. 

Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Then,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, I  desire  to  have  an  opportunity  of  placing 
an  appeal  from  the  decision  of  the  Chair  on 
the  resolution  I  have  ofl'ered,  upon  the  Jour- 
nals of  the  House. 

The  members  having  been  called  in,  the 
decision  of  the  Honorable  Speaker  was  sus- 
tained on  the  following  division  : — 

.Yeas. — Messrs.  Alleyn,  Ault,  Beaubieu,  Belle- 
rose,  Biggar,  lilaiichtt,  Bowman,  15o\vn,  Brous- 
seau,  Browii,  Cailiag,  Any.  Gen.  Cariier,  Cart- 
wright,  Cauohon,  Cbapais,  Cockburn,  C'niellier, 
Cowan,  Currier,  De  Houeherville,  De  Niverville, 
Dickson,  Dufiesiie  (Montc.ilin),  Dunslbrd.  Kvan- 
turel,  Gait,  Gaucher,  Gaudet,  Gilibs,  ilaullain, 
Uigginson,  Howland,  Jones  (South  Leeds),  Lan- 
govin,  LeHoutillier,  MackcnzJH  (l^nmluoi),  Mac- 
kenzie (North  Oxford).  Mugili,  McConki-y.  Mc- 
D  lugali,  McGcc,  MiKellur,  Morris,  .Morrison, 
Piiisonneault,  Poulin,  Powell,  Ui>bitaille,  lioas 
(Prince  Edward),  Scoble,  Smith  (Toronto  East), 


769 


Stirton,  Street,  Sylvain,  Thompson,  Walsh,  Wells, 
Willson,  and  Wiight  (East  York).— 59. 

Nays. — Messieurs  Cameron  (North  Ontario), 
Coupal,  Dorion  (Drummond  and  Arthabaska), 
Dorion  (Hochelaga),  Dufresne  (Iberville),  For- 
tier,  Geoffrion,  Holton,  Houde,  Labreche-Viger, 
Laframboise,  Lajoie,  Macdonald  (Cornwall), 
O'Halloran,  Paquet,  Parker,  Perrault,  Rymal 
Scatcherd,  and  Thibaudeau. — 20. 

The  question  being  again  put  on  Hon.  Mr. 
Attorney  General  Cartier's  motion, 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  said— Mr.  Speaker, 
I  hold  in  my  hand  an  amendment  which  will 
exactly  suit  the  ruling  of  the  Chair,  as  it  re- 
lates only  to  the  time  to  which  the  debate 
shall  be  adjourned.  The  very  unfair  and  ar- 
bitrary course  which  the  Government  has  un- 
fortunately seen  fit  to  pursue,  has  prevented 
the  honorable  members  of  this  House  from 
moving  any  amendments  to  the  scheme  pro- 
posed for  its  adoption  ;  but  I  for  one  am 
most  desirous,  in  accordance  with  the  almost 
universal  wish  of  the  people  of  the  district  of 
Montreal,  to  have  the  question  tested  whether 
the  opinion  of  the  people  shall  be  allowed  to 
be  heard  before  a  final  decision  is  come  to  by 
this  House.  I  find  that  in  nineteen  French- 
Canadian  counties  in  that  district,  resolutions 
have  been  passed  in  favor  of  that  course,  and 
petitions  have  been  signed  by  from  fifteen  to 
twenty  thousand  inhabitants,  asking  that  no 
such  scheme  be  adopted  without  submit- 
ting it-  to  a  vote  of  the  people.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Sir,  I  think  it  would  have  been  far 
more  dignified  on  the  part  of  the  Government, 
and  more  respectful  towards  the  country,  to 
have  allowed  the  scheme  —  which,  in  their 
opinion,  will  create  such  prosperity  that 
everybody  will  be  in  ecstacies  over  it,  but 
which,  in  our  opinion,  will  bring  on  this 
country  such  a  state  of  dissatisfaction  as  will 
perhaps  engender  some  other  feeling  than 
that  of  union  with  the  Lower  Provinces — to 
be  voted  upon  by  those  who  are  most  deeply 
interested  in  it,  the  people  of  Canada.  But 
they  have  chosen  to  gag^  us,  insomuch  that  we 
have  no  other  course  left  but  to  move  amend- 
ments to  the  motion  for  adjourning  the  de- 
bate, and  that  we  are  determined  to  avail  our- 
selves ot.     My  motion  in  amendment  is : — 

That  the  debate  on  this  resolution,  involving 
as  it  does  fundamental  changes  in  the  political 
institutions  and  in  the  political  relations  of  this 
province,  changes  which  were  not  in  the  contem- 
plation of  the  people  at  the  last  general  election, 
ought,  in  the  opinion  of  this  House,to  be  adjourned 
for  cue  monih,  or  until  such  time  as  the  people 
of  this  prcvince  shall  have  an  opportunity  of  con- 
98 


stitutionally  pronouncing  their  opinions  thereon, 
by  an  appeal  to  them. 

I  do  not  fix  the  time  arbitrarily  in  which  the 
appeal  to  the  people  shall  be  made.  If  hon. 
gentlemen  are  anxious  to  have  the  scheme 
carried  at  an  early  day,  they  can  bring  on  an 
election  at  once,  or  they  may  take  their  own 
time.  Let  them  dissolve  the  House  to-mor- 
row. We  are  ready  for  it  at  any  time.  The 
conduct  of  the  Government  in  reference  to  the 
procedure  of  the  House  upo'j  the  great 
question  they  submitted  to  it,  is  as  disgrace- 
ful as  it  is  derogatory  to  the  dignity  of  this 
House.  After  coming  to  a  solemn  agree- 
ment with  the  House  that  the  discussion 
should  go  OQ  as  if  in  Committee  of  the 
Whole,  and  that  consequently  amendments 
might  be  moved,  they  now  distrust  the  favor- 
able feeling  which  they  told  us  at  the  outset 
existed  among  the  people,  and  now  they  will 
not  allow  us  to  place  amendments  to  the 
scheme  in  the  Speaker's  hands.  They  fear 
to  have  the  question  discussed  and  understood 
among  the  people.  They  are  wise  in  their 
generation.  They  have  just  beheld  the  Hon. 
Mr.  TiLLEY — for  ten  years  past  at  the  head  of 
the  Government  of  New  Brunswick,  and  a 
most  deservedly  popular  gentleman — though 
unitiu'r  with  his  own  strength  that  of  the 
leaders  of  the  Opposition,  swept  away 
by  the  people.  (Hear,  hear.)  Well  may 
they  tremble  for  the  fate  of  their  scheme 
among  the  people  of  Canada.  But  they  do 
not  content  themselves  with  simply  refusing 
an  appeal  to  the  people.  They  go  further 
and  refuse  the  members  of  this  House  the  op- 
portunity of  placing  their  views  before  the 
House  and  country.  We  are  ready  to  go  to 
our  constituents  at  once  upon  the  question, 
and  if  they  say  that  the  scheme  is  a  desira- 
ble one,  I  for  one  am  prepared  to  bow 
to  the  will  of  the  majority.  But,  sir, 
to  bow  to  a  self-constituted  delegation — 
an  association  of  honorable  gentlemen  who 
were  never  authorised,  either  by  the  Par 
liament  or  people  of  this  province,  to  meet 
together  along  with  gentlemen  from  other 
provinces,  and  concoct  a  new  Constitution  for 
the  government  of  the  people,  and  then  to 
come  to  this  House  and  say  to  it,  "You  must 
accept  this  new  Constitution  in  all  its  details, 
making  no  change  or  amendment,  nor  even 
having  the  privilege  of  proposing  any  amend- 
ments so  as  to  have  them  placed  on  the  Jour- 
nals of  this  House  " — I  say  the  demand  that 
we  should  bow  in  meek  and  humble  submis- 
sion to  that  sort  of  treatment  at  the  hands  of 


770 


the  gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches,  is 
most  monstrous.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  cannot 
say  that  under  other  circumstances,  such  an 
appeal  as  has  just  been  made  from  the  decision 
of  the  Chair  would  have  been  taken,  but  in 
this  instance  there  was  no  other  course  left 
to  the  minority  to  show  that  they  had  de- 
manded most  important  information  in  refer- 
ence to  the  scheme  under  discussion.  Whe- 
ther it  be  until  a  direct  appeal  can  be  had  to 
the  people  by  a  general  election,  or  by  petitions, 
I  say  the  gravity  of  the  question  calls  for  de- 
lay. Never  has  such  extraordinary  action 
been  taken  by  any  government,  whether  weak 
or  strong,  as  has  been  taken  by  honorable 
gentlemen  opposite. 

•Mr.  M.  0.  CAMEROX— The  Government 
having  endeavored  to  checkmate  the  Opposi- 
tion to  their  scheme  in  the  tyrannical  way  in 
which  they  have  done,  I  think  it  is  only  fair 
to  defeat  their  object  and  to  stalemate  them, 
because  in  point  of  fact  it  will  amount  to  that 
if  we  succeed  in  this  motion.  I  think  honor- 
able gentlemen  will  admit  that  in  this  great 
and  momentous  change  which  is  going  to  take 
place,  the  people  who  sent  us  here  are  as 
deeply  interested  as  we  are.  They  sent  us 
here  to  make  laws  under  the  Constitution  as 
established,  not  to  overturn  the  Constitution  ; 
and  before  such  a  violent  change  of  Constitu- 
tion is  made  as  will,  undoubtedly,  plunge  us 
into  most  serious  expenses,  there  ought  to  be 
given  them  an  opportunity  of  saying  whether 
or  not  they  concur  in  the  change  proposed. 
It  is  for  this  reason  I  second  the  resolution  in 
amendment,  and  I  hope  we  shall  have  for  it 
the  support  of  those  honorable  gentlemen 
who,  though  supporters  of  the  Government, 
have  expressed  such  marked  dissent  from  the 
policy  of  shutting  off  amendments  by  mov- 
ing the  previous  question. 

Hon.  Atty.Gen.  CARTIER  said— With 
reference  to  this  motion,  I  have  to  r.iise  the 
same  point  of  order  that  1  brought  against 
the  other  one.  I  beg  to  say  at  the  out- 
set that  the  statement  that  there  is  to 
be  no  other  opportunity  of  bringing  for- 
ward a  motion  in  favor  of  submitting  the 
scheme  to  the  people,  is  all  clap-trap.  The 
honorable  member  for  Peel  has  given  a 
notice  of  a  motion  on  that  subject,  as  a  sub- 
stantial proposition  on  which  every  hon- 
orable gentleman  will  have  an  opportunity  of 
recording  his  vote  in  a  regular  way. 

[The  honorable  gentleman  then  went  on  to 
discuss  the  point  of  order,  giving  several 
reasons  for  considering  it  irregular.     The  dis- 


cussion of  the  points  raised  was  also  taken 
part  in  by  Hon.  Messrs.  Galt,  Holton, 
DoRiON,  J.  S.  Macdonald,  and  Mr.  Morris.] 

The  speaker  ruled  the  motion  out 
of  order.  He  said  that  the  practice  in  such 
cases  appeared  to  be  for  the  Speaker  to 
eliminate  from  such  motions  all  that  was 
irregular,  and  if  the  honorable  member 
who  prepared  the  motion  consented  to  that, 
to  put  it  to  the  House  as  it  then  stood.  If 
the  honorable  member  would  not  consent,  why 
the  motion  fell  to  the  ground.  If  the  honor- 
able member  for  Hochelaga  would  consent, 
therefore,  to  his  eliminating  from  the  motion 
all  but  that  which  referred  to  the  adjourn- 
ment, he  (the  Speaker)  would  put  it  to  the 
House.  If  not,  he  would  be  obliged  to  rule 
it  out  of  order. 

Hon.  Mr.  DORION  having  declined  to 
allow  his  motion  to  be  interfered  with,  it  was 
accordingly  ruled  out  of  order,  the  amend- 
ment of  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
Cartier  was  agreed  to,  and  the  debate  was 
adjourned  until  three  o'clock  the  next  day. 


Wednesday,  March  8,  1865. 

Mr.  CHAMBERS  said— The  position  of 
the  speaker  who  comes  towards  the  last  in  a 
debate  is,  if  disadvantageous  in  some  respects, 
at  least  advantageous  in  others.  If  from 
the  ability  of  gentlemen  who  have  preceded 
him,  and  from  their  logical  and  argument- 
ative powers,  most  that  could  have  been  said 
has  been  said— if,  from  the  ample  store  of 
knowledge  they  possess,  numerous  ideas 
have  been  advanced,  and  logic;;  1  conclusions 
drawn  therefrom,  there  is  at  least  this  advan- 
tage to  their  successors  in  the  debate,  that 
they  have  the  benefit  of  those  conclusions, 
the  advantage  of  those  ideas  aud  of  that 
knowledge.  And  although  a  subsequent 
speaker  may  be  unable  to  advance  new 
theories,  or  even  adduce  new  arguments,  he 
can  at  least  compare  the  opinions  aud  the 
views  of  those  who  have  preceded  him.  I  may 
state  in  the  outset  that  1  had  hoped,  at  the 
commencement  uf  this  debate,  to  have  heard 
it  anilounced  that  this  Legislature  would  bo 
allowed  the  privilege  of  amouding  such  of 
the  resolutions  submitted  as  they  might,  upon 
earnest  and  careful  examination,  have  deemed 
necessary.  I  had  hoped,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
Some  latitude  Would  be  allowed  to  this  Legis- 
^  lature    in    suggesting    improvements     and 


771 


amendments  to  the  resolutions,  whicli  do 
appear  to  me  to  have  been  resolved  upon 
with  some  degree  of  haste  for  matters  fraught 
with  such  vital  interest  and  importance  to 
these  provinces.  If  indeed,  sir,  the  hon. 
gentlemen  who  so  recently  held  their  deli- 
berations in  this  city  had  been  composed  of 
men  perfect  in  intellect,  and  possessing 
intelligence  unalloyed  by  the  baser  ingredient 
of  ordinary  humanity — liability  to  err,  then 
it  would,  I  say,  have  seemed  more  consistent 
to  ask  this  or  any  other  legislature  to  adopt 
the  Constitution  which  they  had  framed  for  us 
and  for  posterity  without  amendments,  to 
ask  us  to  receive,  as  we  would  or  as  we  do, 
the  articles  of  our  religious  faith — to  ask  us 
to  have  faith,  and  to  believe  that  these  del- 
egates had  embodied  in  these  resolutions  all 
the  requisites  and  necessaries  for  a  perfect 
Constitution.  I  had  hoped,  sir,  we  should 
be  able  to  apply  ourselves  to  the  calm,  delib- 
erate, impartial  consideration  of  these  impor- 
tant resolutions,  and,  being  divested  of  all 
party  spirit,  endeavor  to  arrive  at  such  con- 
clusions as  would  be  advantageous  to  all  the 
provinces.  But,  sir,  notwithstanding  all 
this;  however  much  it  may  have  been 
desired,  and  whatever  alterations  we  may 
have  wished  for ;  whatever  further  benefits 
and  advantages  Upper  Canada  may  have 
desired  to  secure  in  this  great  national  co- 
partnership; and  although  I  should  myself 
have  preferred  alterations  in  some  ot  the 
resolutions,  as  well  as  in  some  of  the  details, 
yet  I  am  not,  after  having  listened  patiently 
and  anxiously  to  the  able  arguments  in  favor 
of  Confederation,  as  well  as  against  it — I  am 
not,  I  repeat,  prepared  to  state  that  I  will 
take  upon  myself  to  say  that  Confederation, 
as  a  scheme,  should  be  rejected — that  I  will 
state  that  I  shall  vote  against  the  creation  of 
a  new  nationality.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  will 
state  some  reasons  why  I  am  not  prepared  to 
do  so.  In  the  first  place,  when  I  look  abroad 
and  see  the  neighboring  American  Republic 
engaged  in  one  of  the  most  terrible  and 
disastrous  wirs  that  has  ever  racked  this 
continent;  when  I  read  in  almost  every 
journal  issuing  from  the  press  of  that  country 
anathemas  against  the  British  Empire ;  when 
I  see  that  press  teeming  with  threats  against 
this  country;  when  I  know  that  that  nation 
has  by  sea  a  navy  prepared  to  cope  with  the 
strong  powers  ot  the  old  world,  and  a  force, 
on  land,  in  point  of  numbers  at  least,  aston- 
ishing the  generals  of  the  most  advanced 
of  warlike  nations — when,  I  say,  I  see  that 
nation  in  a  warlike,  and  not  only  in  a  war- 


like, but  in  a  threatening  attitude  towards 
us,  I  am   led   to   consider,  as  paramount  to 
every  other  consideration,  what  ought  to  be 
done    for    the   safety  of  this   country.     To 
preserve  its  territory   from  invasion,  to  pro- 
tect the  lives  and  property  of  its  subjects, 
is,  I  conceive,  the  first  important   duty  to- 
wards which  the  attention  of  every  govern 
ment  should   be   directed.     (Hear.)     Then, 
sir,  upon  the  well-understood    maxim  that 
union  is  strength,  I  am  inclined  to  believe 
that  the  union  of  the  British  North  Ameri- 
can Provinces  would  give  strength  to  us  all. 
(Hear,    hear.)      I   confess    I   fail  to  see   a 
source  of  weakness  in  this  union,  as  is  very 
ingeniously  argued  by  some  hon.  gentlemen 
opposed    to  this  scheme  in  toto.      It  does 
appear    to  me    that  the  very  political  and 
national  status  given  to  these  provinces  by 
a  union,  would  become  immediately  a  source 
of  strength  ;  that  the  very  new  name  to  be 
given   to  the  new  nationality  would  be  an 
immense    fortification  of  defence  in  itself. 
(Hear,  hear.)      When,  sir,  I  consider  the 
interest  evinced  by  the  people  of  England, 
the  people  of  France,  and,  I  may  say,  of  all 
Europe,  the  very  apprehension  that  seems 
to  exist  with  regard  to  this  Confederation  of 
the  British  North   American  Provinces,  it 
appears  to  me  that  the  very  announcement 
of  the  creation  of  this  new  nationality  has 
given  us  already  a  position  and  a  strength 
which  in  the  palmiest  days  of  the  old  riijifne 
we  might  never   have  hoped  for.       (Hear, 
hear.)     When  I  remember,  sir,  that  great 
Constitutions  in  the  old   world   have  been 
founded  in  the  blood  of  contending  nations ; 
that    in    the    Mother    Country   the    heirs 
of    contending    houses,    at    times    through 
various  centuries,  struggled  for  supremacy  ; 
and  that  authority,  power  and  good  govern- 
ment have  been  established  only  after  being 
wrenched    from    opposing   factions    by   the 
sword — wh;^n  I   remember,  sir,  that  history 
records  the  revolution  which  terminated  the 
long   struggle    between    the    sovereigns    in 
England  and  their  parliaments — how,  from 
union,  order  and  freedom,  established  only 
by  the  sword,  sprung  a  prosperity   hitherto 
unknown   in   the  annals  of  human  affairs ; 
when  I  trace  their  history  from  the  days  of 
feudalism  down  to  the  present,  I  am  led  to 
believe  that  if  we  have   the  opportunity  of 
securing  greatness,  prosperity,  and  an  estab- 
lished and  well-regulated  freedom,  compar- 
ing favorably  with  all  that  is  enjoyed  by  the 
i>^ other  Country,  and  without  the  cost  of  a 
I  lingle  drop  of  blood,  and,  if  the  financial 


77^ 


stateraents  are  correct,  with  little  loss,  if 
any,  of  treasure,  we  would  not  act  wisely  in 
letting  pass  the  opportunity.     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  think,  on   the   first  proposition,  that  our 
defensive    position    would   be   strengthened 
by  this  union.      First,  because   were  we  to 
remain    as    we    at    present   stand,    separate 
provinces,  there  would  be  greater  temptation 
to  the  adjoining  republic  to  acquire  posses- 
sion   of    our    territory,    believing,  as    they 
undoubtedly  would,  that  this  could  be  done 
with  advantage  and  little  cost  to  themselves; 
whereas    the    magnitude    of    our     natioual 
position,  under  the  Confederation,  would  be 
tiie  means,  I  am  satisfied,  of  deterring  them 
from  such  an  enterprise     And  I  am  satisfied, 
too,  that  the  people    of  England  would  be 
more  alive  to  our  interests,  more  willing  to 
spend  their  lives  and  their  treasure  in  assist- 
ing  in    our    defence,   composing   a    strong, 
united,  new  nationality  on  this  continent,  than 
they  would  if  we  were   to  remain   isolated 
colonial    dependencies.       (Hear,    hear.)      I 
believe  the  very  intimation  of  this  Confed- 
eration has  awakened  the  world  to  the  great- 
ness,   the  vastness  of  the  resources  of  this 
country.     (Hear,  hear.)     That  these  view.* 
are  shared  in  by  eminent  statesmen  in  Eu- 
rope is  also  a  significant  fact.    Lord  Hough- 
ton, on  seconding  the  Address  on  the  late 
Speech  from  the  Throne,  very  e-a  phatically 
declared,  in  reg.ird  to  that  portion  in  which 
allusion  is  made  to  Confederation,  "  that  he 
was  glad  of  this  movement,  because  he  con- 
fessed that  he  believed  the  future  ol  the 
world   rested  not  in  isolated  municipnlities, 
but   in   great   empires."     And  the  Earl  of 
Derby,  too,  in  his  remarks  on  that  occasion, 
also  said : — 

Under  the  circumstances,  I  view  with  the  ut- 
most satisfaction  that  most  important  step  to 
which  Her  Majesty's  Speech  refers — the  Confed- 
eration of  the  Canadian  Provinces.  I  hope  to 
see  in  that  Confederation  of  the  Canadian  Prov- 
inces a  determination  to  constitute  themselves  a 
power  strong  enough,  with  the  aid  of  this  country 
(which  r  am  sure  will  never  be  withheld  from 
them),  to  defend  themselves  against  all  aggres- 
sion. 

(Hear,  hear.)  Now,  I  ask,  what  would  have 
been  the  consequences  if  the  political  com- 
bination that  has  taken  place,  for  purposes 
well  understood  and  declared,  had  nut  been 
made  ?  We  have  seen  the  political  party 
strifes  that  agitated  this  country;  we  have 
seen  the  bitterness  with  which  opposing 
parties  contended  for  office;  wo  have  seen 
the  business  of  the  country  neglected,  and 


its  legislation  brought  to- a  stand-still,  while 
parties  assailed  each  other  in  our  legislative 
halls  OQ   some   personal,   individual  ground 
of   malice;    we    have    seen    Lower    Canada 
refusing  to  Upper  Canada  her  fair  represent- 
ation   in    Parliament;  we     have    seen    sec- 
tional and  religious  difficulties  and  dissen- 
sions growing  more  and  more  complicated, 
and    portending    strongly    a    dissolution    of 
the   union,   because   we  of  Upper   Canada 
could  not  have  much   longer  submitted   to 
waive   our   fair   and   equitable   right   to   be 
representod    according    to    our    population 
upon  the  floor  of  this  House.    (Hear,  hear.) 
Looking,  then,  at  the  matter  from  this  point 
of  view,  I  deem  the  circumstances  opportune 
that  have  opened  a  way  for  a  solution  of  the 
difficulties  that  surrounded  us,  and   at   the 
same  time  afford  a  wider  and  more  extended 
and    ample    scope    to  the   people  for  their 
defence,  for  their  commercial,  manufactur- 
ing and  mining  interests,  and  ior  their  social 
intercourse.     Believing,  tlien,  that  in  respect 
to  the  solution  of  the  political  difi"erences  so 
recently  existing,  the  Confederation  of  the 
provinces  is  exceedingly  desirable;  believ- 
ing that  in  order  to  maintain  an  honorable 
existence,  the  union  has  become  expedient, 
as    afiording    a    means    of    defence    again.*t 
aggression,    I   have,   I   think,  at  least   two 
exceedingly  strong  grounds  upon  which  I 
may  favor  the  scheme  in  a  general  point  of 
view.     (Hear,  hear.)     Admitting  that  (Con- 
federation on  general  principles  is  a  propo- 
sition that  admits  of  being  strongly  enter- 
tained ;  that   I  feel   couvirieed  in   my  own 
mind   that  something  requires  to  be  done ; 
that  necessity  demands  strong  and  vigorous 
action   on   the  part  of  the   Government  to 
relieve   us  from   the  difficulties   inio  which 
political     diiferences    have    thrown     us,    to 
guard  and  defend  us  against  difficulties  not 
only  political  at  home,  but  warlike  abroad — 
I  am,  nevertheless,  not  one  of  those  wlio  are 
willing  to  accept,  without  investigation  and 
careful  enquiry,  a  Constitution  cut  and  manu- 
factured without  the  mea.sure  ol    the  people 
it    is   proposed    to    fit    having    been    taken. 
(Hear,  hear.)      1  desire  that  the  garment  of 
the  Constitution  should   be   made  to  fit  the 
people  and  at  their  request.     (Hear,  hear.) 
If  I  had  any  apprehension  that  tliic  acbome 
was  distasteful — was  not  acquiesced  in — was 
notcudoised  by  the  people,  1  should  be  the 
last  man  in  this  House  to  endorse  these  reso- 
lutions; and  I  should  like  every  inf  rmation 
aff'orded  to  this  House  that  can  be  possibly 
given.     I  will  not,  however,  pretend  to  die- 


773 


tate  to   the  Government  of  the   day   what 
amount  of  information  they    shall  furnish 
and    lay    before    us.      I    shall    not   charge 
them  with  dereliction  of  duty  in  not  giving 
more  information.     I  do  not  pretend  to  say 
that  they  should  at  this  stage  give  further 
intimation  of  the  line  of  policy  proposed  to 
be  pursued  and  adopted  by  them  with  regard 
to  the    local   governments.     They,  in  their 
wisdom,  no  doubt,  have  laid   down  a  course 
they  deem  judicious  and  advisable  to  pursue, 
and  which    may  be   so.     But  at   the  same 
time  I  reserve  to   myself  the   right  to   be 
satisfied    or    dissatisfied    with    the    reasons 
given,  and  with  the  information  laid  before 
us,  and  I  conceive  no  blaaie  can  be  attached 
to  the  man  from  Upper  Canada  who  is  anxi- 
ous   to  know,   before    he    votes    for    Con- 
federation, what  the  results  will  be  to  that 
section    of    the    country.       (Hear,    hear.) 
Gentlemen  will,  I  hope,  take  it  in  no  wrong 
spirit  when    I    say  that  upon   others  than 
themselves — upon    the  young  men   of  this 
House  and  this  country — will  fall  the  con- 
sequences of  this   scheme,    if  carried  into 
effect,  whether  beneficial  or  disastrous ;  and 
upon  us  who  now  cast  our  votes  in  its  favor 
will  fall  the  responsibility,  if,  after  its  adop- 
tion, the   working   of   its    machinery   shall 
prove    disastrous    and    injurious    to    Upper 
Canada.     I  maintain  that  the  merit  for  the 
time  being  of  framing  a  new  nationality  will 
attach  to  the  few  who  have  conceived  and 
accomplished  it;  and  they  will  no  doubt  be 
removed  to  places  of  honor,  trust  and  emolu- 
raent  beyond  the  reach  of  the  people,  while 
we  shall  be  left  to  see  that  the  cog-wheels  and 
straps  and   appurtenances  of  this  gigantic 
invention  are  made  to  adhere  to  their  respec- 
tive and  destined  positions.     (Hear,  hear.) 
And  woe  to  us  if  a  wheel  becomes  displaced, 
or  a  single  accident  happens  in  its  future 
working.     Is  it  then,  sir,  improper  to  desire 
to  see  the  fullest  programme  before  we  enter 
upon  the  play  ?     Though  fovorable  to  Con- 
federation, we  might  be  unwilling  to  swallow 
some  of  its  indigestible  ingredients,  if  any 
such  it  should,  upon  examination,  be  found 
to  contain.  (Hear,  hear.)   Now,  upon  exami- 
nation of  these  resolutions,  I  find  the  first  one 
contain  I  think  nothing  but  that  which  would 
be    acceptable    and  be   gladly   received   by 
every  truly  loyal  British  subject — a  Federal 
union  under   the  Crown  of  Great  Britain. 
No  one  has  attempted  to  address  this  House 
But  has  given  the  fullest  expression  of  his 
desire  to  see  the  connection  with  the  Mother 


Country  maintained  and  preserved — to  see 
the  great  arm  of  the  British   I  empire,  which 
we  all  so  much  esteem,  respect,  and  admire, 
strengthened.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  has  been 
argued  here  that  the  British  connection  will 
be  endangered  by  this  scheme,  that  growing 
in  strength,  we  shall  by  and  by  become  inde- 
pendent, throw  off   our  allegiance,  become 
coveted,  and  finally  swallowed   up  by  the 
neighboring  republic.     I  believe  tVe  interest 
now  exhibited  in  England  in  our  welfare,  in 
our  prosperity,  in  the  formation  of  our  new 
nationality — the  affection   shown   for   us  in 
the  hearts  of  many   English  statesmen,  ex- 
hibited in  their  declarations  of  their  belief 
in  our  loyalty,  is  sincere.     (Hear.)     I  cannot 
believe  that  as  we  grow  great,  prosparous,  and 
valuable,  their  interest  in   us  will  grow  less 
or  be  in  the   slightest   degree   diminished. 
The  contrary  is  the    reasonable   deduction. 
If  that  nation  has  been    in    times    past  so 
solicitous  with  regard  to  us  ;   if  when  poor, 
small,  and   unknown  comparatively,  she  has 
sent  her  best  blocd  and  her  richest  treasures 
for  our  defence  and  support,  it  is  unjust  to 
her  now  and  unreasonable  to  assume  that  she 
will  ever,  unless  at  our  own  request,  aband- 
on, neglect  or  forget  us.    (Hear,  heur.)  The 
recollections  of  our   childhood  and  of  the 
anxious    care    extended   toward   us  will  be 
ever   fresh,     I    trust,     in    the    mi  ad    and 
heart   and   memory  of   our  Island    Parent, 
and    when    maturity    overtakes    us,    I  am 
sure    she    will    not    forget    the    child    she 
has    so    loved        I    trust    not.      I    see    no 
occasion  for  apprehension  on  this    account 
in  this  direction.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  see,  Mr. 
Speaker,  embodied  in  this  second  resolu- 
tion— if  we  are  to  have  a  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces— the    only   method    which    I    think 
could  be  at  ail  satisfactory  to  the    various 
sections      It  is  alleged  by  some  that  a  legis- 
lative union  would  be  desir-tble.      For  my 
own  part,  I  see  many  difficulties  that  would 
inevitably  arise  out  of  a  legislative  union, 
which  it  appears  to  me  would  be  insurniouot- 
able.       I    do    not     believe   that   a    general 
government  would  be  as  capable,  even  if  it 
were  as  willing — which  I  doubt  if  it  would 
be — to  deal  with  the  local  affairs  of  the  differ- 
entsections  as  the  local  govern  merits  would 
be.      I    .believe    a     general      government, 
charged  with  matters  of  common  interest  to 
the   whole  country,  and  local  governments 
for  the  province-,  as  proposed  by  this  resolu- 
tion, is  best   adapted   to  secure   etficieucy. 
harmony  aiyi  permanency  in  the  wi>rking  of 


774 


this  union.  The  second  resolution,  too, 
opens  up  a  mighty  page  on  our  historic 
future.  It  points  a  significant  finger  to 
the  day  when  millions  of  inhabitants  shall 
people  the  verdant  valley  of  the  Saskatchewan , 
when  railways  and  telegraphs  shall  thread 
the  almost  boundless  territory  of  the  North- 
West,  where  the  war-hoop  of  the  savage  alone 
is  heard  It  points  to  the  vast  commercial 
enterprises  yet  to  be  engaged  in  upon  the 
Pacific  shores,  to  the  rich  gold  fields  of 
Columbia  and  the  fertile  shores  of  Vancou- 
ver. (Hear,  hear.)  We  rise,  Mr.  Speaker, 
in  this  resolution,  from  the  simplicity  of 
small  colonial  dependencies  to  a  vastness  in 
extent  of  territory  to  which  the  little  islands 
that  compose  the  mighty  Empire  to  which 
we  belong  are  insignificant.  We  may  lo'ok 
forward,  even  with  hope  and  pride,  without, 
I  think,  too  great  a  stretch  of  imagination, 
to  some  distant  day,  when  in  the  rocking  of 
European  thrones,  perhaps,  we  shall  be  able 
to  send  out  our  fleets  and  our  armies,  gather- 
ed from  the  Atlantic  to  the  Pacific,  to  afford 
aid  and  assistance  to  that  very  Empire  to 
which  we  now,  in  our  weakness,  appeal  for 
support  and  strength  and  aid.  (Applause.) 
Who  will  say  that  the  conception  of  this 
scheme  has  not  a  grandeur  about  it  com- 
mending itself  to  the  minds  of  those  who 
rise  superior  to  the  cries  of  party  strife — 
commending  itself  to  the  favorable  consider- 
ation of  those  who  desire  to  move  onward 
with  gigantic  strides  to  greatness,  to  wealth, 
to  a  more  perfect  civilization — to  break  out 
from  the  narrow  grooves  of  prejudice,  and 
selfishness, and  bigotry,  and  desire  to  take  to 
the  broad  gauge  of  an  enlightened  and 
expansive  policy  ?  (Hear,  hear.;  Resolu- 
tions three,  four  and  five  I  may  pass  over. 
They  all  have  for  their  tendency  the  planting 
of  the  roots  of  the  Constitution  of  this  new 
nationality  in  the  firm  soil  of  the  British 
model ;  of  coupling  to  the  firm  car  of  British 
freedom  this  new  nationality,  the  wisdom, 
and  expediency  and  policy  of  which  course  is 
not  attempted  to  be  denied  by  a  single  voice 
in  this  House.  I  pass  to  the  consideration  of 
the  eleventh  resolution,  which  has  been  the 
subject  of  much  discussion  among  the 
people  outside  of  this  House,  and  has  been 
referred  to  as  one  very  strong  ground  for 
the  rejection  of  the  scheme.  Those  of  tlie 
old  Reform  party  who  contended — and  I 
am  sure  conscientiously  contended — for  the 
elective  principle  in  the  Upper  House,  ever 
jealous  as  they  have  a  right  to  be  of  those 


rights  and  privileges,  for  which  they  have 
long  and  ardently  contended,  see  in  this 
resolution  a  retrograde  rather  than  a  pro- 
gressive principle — a  backward  rather  than 
a  forward  movement — instead  of  a  salutary 
reform,  a  return  to  the  old-fogyism  of  the 
past,  if  I  may  be  allowed  the  expression. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Well,  sir,  I  in  some  mea- 
sure agree  with  those  who  entertain  these 
opinions.  I  would,  for  my  own  part,  very 
much  prefer  to  see  the  elective  principle 
retained  in  the  Legislative  Council,  and  I 
very  much  desire,  if  this  scheme  is  to  be 
adopted  at  all,  that  in  pursuance  of  the 
intimation  given  in  the  despatch  of  the  3rd 
December,  1864,  from  the  Imperial  Govern- 
ment, acknowledging  the  despatch  of  this 
Government  of  the  7th  of  November, 
1864,  the  provinces  should  enter  again 
upon  the  consideration  of  the  resolu- 
tion respecting  the  appointment,  by  the 
Crown  of  the  members  of  the  Legislative 
Council.  As  this  suggestion  is  one  that 
comes  not  from  either  of  the  provinces — 
arises  from  no  sectional  nor  provincial  preju- 
dices— none  of  the  provinces  can  well  refuse 
to  entertain  it  if  they  arc  really  actuated  by 
a  desire  to  arrived  at  a  form  of  Constitutional 
Government  based  upon  principles  just  to 
the  several  provinces,  as  is  declared  to  be 
their  desire  in  the  very  first  of  these  resolu- 
tions. (Hear  ;  I  will  not,  sir,  enter  into 
further  details  upon  this  subject;  I  will  not 
discuss  the  advantages  of  an  Intercolonial 
road,  or  its  disadvantages  ;  but  I  will  simply 
say,  that  in  the  hour  of  emergency,  when  our 
position  is  such  that  we  cannot,  we  must  not 
stand  still — when  we  are  hurried  along  by 
the  resistless  power  of  circumstances — when 
dangers  threaten,  on  the  one  hand,  and 
bright  prospects  of  greatness  lie  in  imme- 
diate unity  of  action  on  the  other,  we  should 
not  descend  to  the  penurious  position  of 
being  unwilling  to  spend  a  di>llar  to  accom 
plish  a  great  and  mighty  project  that  will  live 
in  the  memory  of  all  I'uture  ages — of  founii- 
ing  a  nationality  that  will,  it  may  bo,  exist, 
as  the  learned  histoiian  quoted  by  my  hou. 
friend  from  Quebec  has  said  :  "  When  some 
traveller  from  New  Zealand  shall  stand  upon 
;i  broken  arch  of  London  Bridge  to  sketch 
the  ruins  of  St.  Pauls."  (Hear.)  I  would 
not,  sir,  on  the  otiior  hand,  be  willing  tj 
adopt  a  scheme  which  would,  in  a  finau- 
cial  point  of  view,  endanger  the  best 
interests  of  Upper  Canada ;  but  I  am 
assured   by    the    facts    and    figures    intro- 


775 


duced  by  my  honorable  friends  from 
South  Oxford  and  from  Sherbrooke,  who, 
I  am  sure,  do  not  wish  to  be  taken  in 
in  respect  to  this  scheme  any  more  than  I 
do,  or  than  any  other  man  from  Upper  Can- 
ada— I  am  assured,  I  say,  by  them,  that 
our  financial  position  will  be  benefited  by 
the  Confederation.  I  have  compared  those 
facts  and  those  figures,  and  I  must  confess 
I  have  confidence  in  their  conclusions. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  have  heard  it  urged,  sir, 
that  because  some  counties  in  New  Bruns- 
wick have  rejected  the  men  who  have 
adopted  Confederation  as  a  policy,  we  ought 
therefore  to  abandon  the  scheme.  Well, 
sir,  we  are  either  bound  in  good  faith  to 
carry  out  the  engagement  entered  into  at 
Quebec  or  not,  and  I  say  with  my  friend  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  West,  we  are 
bound  in  all  conscience  and  honor,  and  in 
every  principle  of  law  or  equity,  to  adhere 
to  the  agreement  entered  into.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  tu  quoque  argument  is  not  a 
good  defence  to  such  a  breach  of  good 
faith.  What  a  sorry  figure  should  we 
cut,  sir,  before  the  Imperial  Government 
with  this  argument  in  our  mouths : — 
"  The  Provinces  of  New  Brunswick,  Nova 
Scotia  and  Prince  Edward  Island  broke 
faith,  violated  their  pledges,  were  untrue 
to  their  engagements,  and  we  followed 
theirisxample."  I  think,  sir,  such  a  position 
would  be  pitiable,  and  would  tend  to  lower 
us  in  the  eyes  of  the  Imperial  Government. 
{Hear,  hear)  I  maintain  that  the  principle 
■enunciated  by  my  friend  the  Honorable 
Attorney  General  West  is  correct;  we 
must  adopt  '^hese  resolutions,  and  we  must 
take  them  before  the  Imperial  Government, 
in  order  to  maintain  the  respect  of  that 
Government,  in  order  to  maintain  the  respect 
of  the  Empire,  in  order  to  maintain  even  our 
own  self-respect.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  that 
is  accomplished,  our  duty  will  be  ended.  If 
the  Maritime  Provinces  will  not  adhere  to 
the  arrangement,  we  shall  have  done  our 
duty,  and  shall  have  secured  the  good-will 
and  respect  of  the  Mother  Country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  Before  taking  my  seat,  I  will  say, 
sir,  with  regard  to  the  putting  of  the 
previous  question,  I  am  sorry  that  has  been 
done.  I  am  one  who  is  desirous  of.  giving 
to  every  man,  of  every  party,  of  every 
shade  of  political  opinion,  the  most  extensive 
scope  for  the  expression  of  his  opinions,  the 
fairest  opportunity  of  giving  them  utterance 
and  of  recording  his  votes,  so  that  they  may 
appear  upon  the  Journals,  ready  to  be  referred 


to,  in  order  both  to  protect  himself  and  to 
benefit  others.  This,  sir,  is,  however,  a 
technicality  ;  and  however  much  I  may 
regret  that  the  question  has  been  put  in  that 
form,  I  cannot  on  that  account  reject  the 
whole    scheme    of    Confederation.       (Hear, 

Mr.  GEOFFRION  said— Mr.  Speaker, 
when  I  moved  the  adjournment  last  night, 
it  was  not  my  intention  to  offer  to-day  a 
general  review  of  the  scheme  which  is  under 
discussion  ;  for  I  am  of  opinion  that  it  has 
been  sufficiently  discussed  to  enable  the 
country  to  judge  of  its  merits  and  of  its 
disadvantages.  My  intention  was  rather  to 
confine  myself  to  certain  points  in  the  plan 
which,  in  my  opinion,  have  not  been  held 
ujf  in  a  sufficiently  salient  point  of  view,  and 
to  make  a  few  remarks  on  what  has  been 
said,  both  in  this  House  and  in  the  Legisla- 
tive Council,  in  relation  to  the  protection  of 
the  institutions  of  Lower  Canada.  In  the 
Upper  House  the  Hon.  the  Prime  Minister 
(Hon.  Sir  Etienne  Pascal  Tach£),  in  his 
speech  of  the  3rd  February  last,  said  : — 

If  we  obtain  a  Federal  union,  it  will  be 
equivalent  to  a  disunion  of  the  provinces,  and 
thereby  Lower  Canada  will  preserve  her  autonomy, 
together  with  all  the  institutions  which  are  so 
dear  to  her,  and  over  which  she  may  exercise  all 
the  surveillance  which  is  necessary  to  preserve 
them  from  danger. 

And  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General  (Hon  Mr. 
Langevin),  after  having  explained,  in  his 
way,  the  resolutions  respecting  marriage  and 
divorce,  expressed  himself  as  follows,  in  his 
speech  of  the  21st  February  last : — 

This  is  an  important  point,  and  the  French- 
Canadian  members  ought  to  congratulate  them- 
selves on  observing  that  their  fellow-countrymen 
did  not  fail  in  the  performance  of  their  duty  in 
relation  to  a  question  of  such  importance.  It  is 
needless  to  say  that  on  many  other  points  some 
of  them  will  not  admit  that  we  performed  our 
duty  well ;  but  on  the  point  in  question,  there 
can  be  eo  difference  of  opinion,  for  we  have  all 
a  common  rule,  and,  I  repeat,  they  should  be 
satisfied  that  their  co-religionists  in  the  Con 
ference  were  not  forgetful  of  their  duty  on  that 
occasion. 

It  then  behoves  this  honorable  House,  Mr. 
Speaker,  to  see  that  our  national  institu- 
tions are  really  protected  by  the  resolutions 
which  are  submitted  to  us.  In  order  that 
this  end  may  be  fully  attained,  it  is  neces- 
sary to  define  the  peculiar  features  of  our 
position  as  a  people.  I  can  say,  with  the 
utmost  sincerity,  that  for  my  part  I  have 


776 


never  lound  any  other  points  of  difference 
between  the  English  and  the  French-Cana- 
dians who  inhabit  this  country,  but  these 
arising  from  their  religion,  their  language, 
and  their  laws;  lor  we  have  the  same  attach- 
ment that  they  have  to  the  British  Empire, 
and  I  am  convinced  that  no  hon.  member  of 
this  House  will  express  a  contrary  opinion. 
(Hear,  hear.)  This  being  admitted,  Mr. 
Speakkr,  I  beg  to  call  the  attention  of  the 
Bouse  to  the  twenty-ninth  resolutiou.  It 
reads  as  follows  : — 

The  General  Parliament  shall  have  power  to 
make  law3  tor  the  peace,  welfare  and  good  gov- 
ernment of  the  Federated  Provinces  (saving  the 
Sovereignty  of  England),  and  especially  laws 
respecting  the  following  subjects  : —     ♦     •     • 

• 
Then,  after  a  long  enumeration  of  subjects 
on  which  the  General  Government  is  to  have 
power  to  legislate,  we  come  to  the  31st  para- 
graph, which  relates  to  marriage  and  divorce. 
On  the  2nd  July,  1864,  the  Prime  Minister, 
(Hon.  Sir  Etienne  Pascal  Tach^),  in  the 
course  ><f  an  eloquent  speech  delivered  on  the 
second  reading  of  the  Benning  Divorce  Bill, 
spoke  as  folluws  in  the  Legislative  Council : — 

I  oppose  the  second  reading  of  the  bill,  and  I 
do  so  on  the  principle  that  divorce  is  antichristian 
and  antinational.  [And  after  having  cited  various 
passages  from  the  Bible,  he  continued :]  Divorce 
is  immoial  in  its  consequences,  and,  worse  still,  it 
destroys  society  by  destroying  the  family.  [And 
again  :  J  I  should  be  sorry  to  wound  the  feelings 
of  any  one,  but  we  have  to  protect  society  in  gen- 
eral, and  we  have  certain  duties  to  discharge. 
For  my  part,  I  should  be  acting  against  niy  con- 
science, my  religion  and  my  country,  if  I  did  not 
oppose  tlie  bill.  Death  alone  can  dissolve  mar- 
riage— tliat  is  the  teaching  of  the  Apostles,  and  it 
is  also  the  doctrine  of  all  the  Fathers  and  Councils. 

On  the  9tb  July  of  the  same  year,  the  Hon- 
Solicitor  General  for  Lower  Canada,  in  his 
speech  delivered  in  this  House  on  the  same 
subject,  expressed  himself  as  follows  : — 

If  I  0])p03e  the  bill  now  before  the  House,  it  is 
not  because  I  do  not  believe  that  the  person 
petitioning  for  it  has  just  grounds  of  complaint, 
but  because  we  are  asked  to  do  that  which  is  dia- 
metrically opposed  to  my  principles  in  this  matter ; 
and  because,  moreover,  I  consider  that  the  House 
has  not  the  right  to  dissolve  the  marriage  con- 
tracted between  the  parties  interested,  and  to 
permit  them  to  marry  again. 

This  opinion  of  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General 
for  Lower  Canada  was  supported  by  the 
whole  o!  the  French-Canadian  and  Catholic 
members,  who  declared,  on  that  occasion,  by 
voting  even  against  the  first  reading  of  the 


bill,  that  they  were  opposed  to  the  principle 
of  divorce;  and  their  opinion  was  concurred 
in  and  supported  by  the  >.  reater  part  of  the 
newspapers  in  Lower  Canada.  The  Canadien 
said,  on  that  occasion  : — 

The  Divorce  Bill  was,  we  regret  to  say,  read  a 
first  time  yesterday  evening.  The  division  wa« 
61  votes  against  42  There  is,  therefore,  no  hope 
of  this  antisocial  measure  being  defeated.  The 
duty  of  reflecting  men,  nevertheless,  is  to  warn 
society  of  the  danger  in  which  it  is  placed  j  to 
protest  strongly  against  the  deadly  assaults  made 
upon  it.  Messrs.  Langevik,  McGee  and  Cartier 
discharged,  yesterday  evening,  that  high  and  im- 
portant duty,  and,  as  representatives  of  Lower 
Canada  society,  they  addressed  in  eloquent  terms 
warnings  to  society  in  Upper  Canada. 

The  Courrier  du  Canada,  with  reference  to 
the  same  question,  said  ; — 

If  any  one  says  that  the  Church  is  in  error  when, 
for  various  reasons,  she  decides  that  a  separation 
between  married  persons,  in  so  far  as  regards  the 
marriage  bed  or  cohabitation,  may  take  place  for 
a  definite  or  an  indefinite  period,  let  him  be 
anathema.  That  is  the  doctrine  of  the  Catholic 
Church  as  to  marriage,  and  in  this  instance,  as  in 
every  other,  it  is  in  accordance  with  the  laws  of 
nature,  which  themselves  repel  divorce  as  some- 
thing monstrous. 

The  Journal  de  Quebec  of  the  9th  June, 
1864,  says  : — 

The  question  of  divorce  recurs  periodicaHy  to 
occupy  the  attention  of  the  House  and  afflict  the 
consciences  of  Catholics.  Divorce  is  the  most 
powerful  agent  for  etfecting  the  dissolution  of 
society,  for  marriage  is  the  social  formula ;  once 
you  open  the  flood-gates  of  divorce,  no  matter 
under  what  pretext,  how  are  you  to  dam  up  the 
tide  and  prevent  it  from  submerging  the  whole  of 
society  ? 

Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  as  I  said  a  moment 
ago,  these  were  the  opinions  of  all"  Fret  ch- 
Canadians,  and,  with  reference  to  this  ques- 
tion, I  cannot  imagine  anything  to  justify 
the  change  of  opinion  whicli  has  manifested 
itself  amongst  a  certain  number  of  French. 
Canadian  members  and  our  Catholic  ministers 
If  it  be  true  that  a  Catholic  cannot  adopt  th« 
principle  of  divorce,  and  if  we  are  in  con- 
science bound  io  oppose  it  in  our  capacity  as 
legislators,  by  voting  against  every  measure 
tending  to  sanction  it,  1  ask  how  we  can  vote 
for  a  resolution  purporting  to  vest  in  the  Fed- 
eral Legislature  the  power  of  legislating  on 
the  subject?  The  hon.  member  for  Montmo- 
rency, in  the  course  of  liis  speech  in  this 
House  the  day  before  yesterday,  told  us  that 
if  it  had  not  been  recorded  in  the  resolutions 


777 


that  the  Federal  Parliament  would  have  the 
right  of  legislating  on  divorce,  that  power 
would  have  been  exercised  not  only  by  the 
latter,  but  by  the  local  legislatures  also.  The 
43rd  resolution,  article  15,  tells  us  that 
property  and  civil  rights,  excepting  those 
portions  thereof  assigned  to  the  General 
Parliament,  are  to  be  left  to  the  local  gov- 
ernments. Et  is  evident,  therefore,  that  if  it 
had  not  been  stated  in  the  resolutions  that 
the  Federal  Grovernment  was  to  have  the 
right  of  legislating  on  marriage  and  divorce^ 
that  power  would  have  remained  vested  in 
the  local  legislatures. 

Hon.  M  i.  CAUCHOX— And  if  that  re- 
solution had  not  been  inserted  in  the 
scheme,  what  would  have  been  the  effect  ? 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— The  insertion  of 
that  clause  places  us  precisely  in  the  posi- 
tion we  should  have  occupied  under  a  legis- 
lative union.  By  one  section  of  that  clause, 
the  Federal  Legislature  is  vested  with  the 
power  of  legislating,  not  only  on  the  question 
of  marriage  and  divorce,  but  also  on  the 
civil  rights  of  the  French-Canadians.  It 
can,  whenever  it  chooses,  attack  our  civil 
laws.  The  hon.  member  for  Montmorency 
admits  that  the  43rd  clause,  and  paragraph 
15,  assure  the  protection  of  our  civil  rights, 
and  says  that  if  that  portion  of  the  resolu- 
tions had  not  beea  inserted,  the  local  legisla- 
tures would  alone  have  had  the  right  to  deal 
with  the  matter.  Mr.  Speaker,  a  single 
glance  at  our  civil  code  is  sufficient  to  con- 
vince  any  one  of  this.  Under  article  74  of 
title  5,  I  find  the  following : — "  Marriage  is 
dissolved  solely  by  the  natural  death  of  one 
of  the  parties;  so  long  as  they  both  live,  it 
is  indissoluble."  If  it  be  true  that  our 
French  civil  law  declares  that  marriage  can- 
not be  dissolved  by  any  means  whatsoever,  nor 
by  any  authority  ;  if  the  right  of  legislating 
on  marriage  and  divorce  had  not  been  left 
to  the  Greneral  Legislature,  no  person  could 
have  obtained  a  divorce  and  leave  to  marry 


again. 


Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LA.NGEVIN— What 
happens  at  the  present  moment  ? 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— What  happens?  It 
is  true  that  the  Legislature  furnishes  us 
with  precedents,  but  every  time  that  a 
divorce  has  been  asked  from  the  Legislature, 
the  Catholic  members  have  voted  against  it. 
As  the  resolutions  stand,  the  Federal  Legis- 
lature may  grant  bills  of  divorce,  thanks  to 
the  insertion  of  this  clause  in  the  scheme. 
We   are   told  that  this  has  been  done  in 

99 


order  to  remove  a  danger  which  already 
existed  in  the  local  legislatures ;  but  a  great 
error  has  been  committed;  for,  under  the  new 
system,  any  one  can  make  application  to  the 
General  Legislature  and  obtain  a  bill  of  divorce. 
And  if  that  right  had  not  been  given  to  the 
Federal  Legislature,  it  would  have  been  im- 
possible to  obtain  a  divorce  in  Lower  Canada, 
inasmuch  as  the  majority  in  the  Local  Legis- 
lature will  be  French-Canadian  and  Catholic, 
and  marriage  and  divorce  would  be  under  the 
control  of  that  legislature.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  Honorable  Solicitor  General  Langeyin 
said  in  his  speech — and  I  fancied  that  he  had 
much  difficulty  in  explaining  the  article  rela- 
tive to  divorce,  that  the  Catholic  members  of 
the  Conference  were  not  opposed  to  that  arti- 
cle, and  that,  though  they  were  opposed  to 
the  principle  of  divorce,  he  admitted  that 
there  were  cases  in  which  Catholics  were  al- 
lowed to  separate.  I  cannot  help  saying,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  this  was  a  very  poor  argument 
for  granting  to  the  General  Government  the 
power  of  legislating  in  the  matter  of  divorce. 
The  same  resolution  says  that  the  Federal 
Government  is  to  have  the  right  of  legislating 
on  marriage,  and  the  Honorable  Solicitor 
General,  in  his  speech,  explains  that  article 
as  follows  : — 

The  word  "marriage"  has  been  placed  in  the 
draft  of  the  proposed  Constitution  to  invest  the 
Federal  Legislature  with  the  right  of  declaring 
what  marriages  shall  '^e  held  and  deemed  to  be 
valid  throughout  the  whole  extent  of  the  Confed- 
eracy, without,  however,  interfering  in  any  par- 
ticular with  the  doctrines  or  rites  of  the  religious 
creeds  to  which  the  parties  may  belong. 

I  must  acknowledge  that  the  statement  is 
very  skilfully  made,  and  to  persons  who  ac- 
cept it  without  close  examination,  I  admit  that 
it  is  calculated  to  convey  the  idea  that  the 
Government  hold  that  the  Federal  Legisla- 
ture cannot  decree  that  a  civil  marriage  is 
obligatory,  and  that  a  marriage  must  be  cele- 
brated under  the  Catholic  or  the  Protestant 
Church  in  order  to  be  valid.  But  any  one 
who  closely  examines  that  portion  of  the  clause 
will  easily  see  that  it  cannot  possibly  be  in- 
terpreted in  any  such  sense,  and  that  the 
existence  of  that  clause  in  the  Constitution 
will  enable  the  Federal  Government  to  enact 
that  civil  marriage  alone  shall  be  valid,  so  that 
children  the  issue  of  marriages  contracted  in 
the  Church  and  not  ratified  by  a  civil  magis- 
trate, will  be  illegitimate.  I  maintain  that  the 
clause  is  susceptible  of  no  other  intrepretation, 
and  I  defy  the  Honorable  Solicitor  General  for 


778 


Lower  Canada  (Hon.  Mr.  Langevin)  to  in- 
terpret it  correctly  in  any  other  sense.  (Hear, 
hear. )  He  has  really  given  us  a  magnificent 
explanation  of  the  clause,  but  it  seems  to  me 
that  as  the  House  is  called  upon  to  deal  with 
written  resolutions,  we  must  interpret  them  as 
they  are  laid  before  us ;  the  House  cannot 
scrutinise  the  hidden  intentions  of  the  Gov- 
ernment in  the  matter.  If  the  resolutions 
•have  any  other  meaning  than  that  expressed 
on  the  face  of  them,  the  House  is  entitled  to 
call  upon  the  Government  to  explain  and  cor- 
rect them.  The  motion  now  before  the  House 
is  as  follows  : — 

That  an  humhle  Address  be  presented  to  Her 
Majesty,  praying  that  She  may  be  graciously 
pleased  to  cause  a  measure  to  be  submitted  to  the 
Impel ial  Parliament,  for  uniting  the  Colonies  ot 
Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  New- 
foundland, and  Prince  Edward  Island  in  one 
government,  with  provisions  based  on  certain  re- 
solutions which  were  adopted  at  a  Conference  of 
Delegates  from  the  said  Colonies,  held  at  the 
city  of  Quebec,  on  the   10th  October,   1864. 

I  assert,  then,  that  if  we  vote  this  Address,  we 
cannot  complain  if  the  Imperial  Government 
should  declare  that  the  Federal  Legislature 
shall  have  the  right  to  legislate  on  all  mat- 
ters relating   to  marriage  and  aivorce. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Who  is  to  draw 
up  the  Constitution  ? 

Mr.  GEOFFRION-The  Imperial  Gov- 
ernment. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Not  at  all.  It 
will  be  drawn  up  here  and  submitted  to  the 
Imperial  Government. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION  —  If  I  am  not  mis- 
taken as  to  the  meaning  of  the  motion,  the 
A'ldress  asks  Her  Mjjesty  to  cause  a  meas- 
ure to  be  submitted  to  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment for  the  purpose  of  uniting  the  Colonies 
of  Canada,  Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick, 
Newfoundland,  and  Prince  Edward  Island  in 
one  government,  with  provisions  based  on 
certain  resolutions  which  were  adopted  at  a 
Conference  of  delegates  from  the  said  colon- 
ies. Now,  if  the  imperial  Government  is  to 
adopt  the  measure,  tlioy  can  do  as  was  done 
in  1856,  with  reference  to  the  Legislative 
Council,  and  we  cannot  complain  if  they 
should  amend  it  in  a  sense  dista.-teful  to  us, 
since  our  resolutions  declaie  lliut  the  Local 
Government  a'lall  have  the  right  to  legislate 
on  property  and  civil  rights,  except  such 
portions  thereof  as  shiU  be  vested  in  the 
Federal  Government — and  amongst  the  sub- 
jects  left   to   the   latter   arc   marriage    and 


divorce.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  know  the  answer 
that  will  be  iiiade  to  me  on  this  point.  It 
will  be  said  that  it  is  through  party  spirit 
I  am  standing  up  to  defend  religion,  and  thaf 
I  desire  to  lead  this  Honorable  House  to 
believe  that  by  voting  for  these  resolutions  we 
endanger  our  religious  institutions.  But  it 
appears  to  me,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  for  all  of 
US  Catholics,  the  indissolubility  of  marriage 
is  an  article  of  religion,  and  that  if  the  reso- 
lutions do  not  admit  that  doctrine  of  the 
Church,  they  i.ust  be  rejected  by  every  onj 
of  us.  But  it  will  perhaps  be  asked — "How 
does  it  happen  that  our  Catholic  clergy 
remain  passive  whilst  one  of  the  dogmas  of 
our  religion  is  thus  being  undermined  ?  "  I 
deny,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  Canadian 
clergy  are  in  favor  of  the  Ministerial  scheme, 
and  lam  supported  in  this  by  the  lact  ihat 
the  petitions  sent  here  against  the  scheme 
were  signed  by  several  priests. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— By  how  many  ? 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— Several  of  them  have 
signed  the  petitions;  I  can  fancy  that  some 
members  of  the  clergy  are  in  favor  of  the 
project,  but  I  deny  that  the  clergy  in  general 
profess  the  same  sentiments.  \Ve  have  n  jt 
received  a  single  petition  in  favor  of  Confeder- 
ation, and  every  day  large  numbers  of  them 
reach  us,  praying  for  the  abandonment  of  the 
scheme. 

Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— Do  not  drag  the 
clerg-y  into  the  debate:  we  have  not  done  so. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— Yes,  you  have  done  it. 
The  Honorable  Attorney  General  for  Lower 
Canada  said  in  this  House  that  the  clergy 
were  in  favor  of  the  scheme.  Now,  I  main- 
tain that  a  great  many  priests  are  opposed  to 
Cunfederation.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  find  in  the 
Canadien  of  this  day  a  letter  written  by  a 
member  of  the  ckrgy,  who  expresses  himself 
in  the  following  terms  on  the  subject  of  Con- 
federation— 

Mr.  ROBITAILLE— Is  the  letter  really 
written  by  a  priest  ? 

Mr.  GEOFFRION  — If  the  honorable 
member  has  any  doubt  on  that  point,  he  can 
solve  it  by  applying  to  the  honorable  member 
for  the  county  oi'  Quebec,  who  is  the  proprie- 
tor of  the  paper.  This  is  what  the  reverend 
gentleman  says: — "  The  clergy  are  not  in  favor 
of  your  Confederation  as  it  is  proposed ;  a 
great  many  of  them,  it  is  true,  have  faith  in 
It,  and  trust  in  our  public  men,  but  a  good 
many  of  them  also  dread  it,  and  would  like  to 
sec  it  amended."  It  is  quite  easy  for  any  one 
I  who  takes  the  trouble  to  reflect  ou  thi.^  ..utter, 


779 


to  understand  that  among  the  clergy,  as  among 
the  people,  there  may  be  a  great  many  persons 
who,  having  always  had  confidence  in  the 
Lower  Canada  Ministers,  and  having  been 
accustomed  to  look  upon  them  as  the  natural 
protectors  of  reliirion  and  of  our  national  in- 
stitutions— are  ready  to  accert  the  declarations 
and  explanations  made  in  this  House  by  our 
Ministers.  Now,  these  explanations  simply 
stated  that  the  legislation  of  the  Federal 
Government  would  merely  go  the  length  of 
declaring  the  validity  of  marriages  contracted 
in  any  one  of  the  provinces  of  the  Confeder- 
ation when  the  parties  entered  Lower  Can- 
ada ;  but  it  is  evident  that  if  they  accept 
such  explanations,  those  members  of  tlie 
clergy  who  have  always  had  confidence  in  the 
present  Ministers  are  not  easily  susceptible  of 
alarm.  But  if  we  take  the  trouble  of  inter- 
preting that  clause  of  the  resolution  in  its 
true  sense,  it  must  be  admitted  that  the  legis- 
lation of  the  Federal  Government  on  marriage 
and  divorce  may  in  many  ways  run  counter 
to  our  sentiments  as  Catholics,  since  it  may 
declare  that  marriage  is  nothing  more  than  a 
civil  contract,  and  that  religious  marriages 
contracted  either  by  Protestants  or  Catholics, 
and  not  ratified  by  a  magistrate,  shall  not  be 
valid.  Let  us  now  see  what  will  be  the  efi"ect 
of  these  provisions  as  regards  our  laws.  The 
Honorable  Attorney  General  for  Lower  Can- 
ada gave  us  a  pompous  eulogy  of  our  civil 
code ;  he  went  so  far  as  to  state  that  it  was 
infinitely  superior  to  the  French  code,  and  to 
any  code  he  was  acquainted  with.  We  are 
told  that  our  institutions  and  our  civil  laws 
will  be  fully  protected,  and  that  the  Federal 
Legislature  can  only  legislate  on  the  laws  of 
the  other  provinces,  our  civil  laws  being  placed 
beyond  its  reach.  If  this  provision  relating 
tu  marriage  and  divorce  be  adopted,  what  will 
be  the  effect  on  our  civil  laws  ?  The  Hon.  Soli- 
citor General  for  Lower  Canada  told  us  that  the 
object  of  that  resolution  was  to  render  valid 
throughout  the  Confederation  a  marriage  con- 
tracted in  any  one  of  the  provinces.  It  seems 
to  me  very  extraordinary,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
a  gentleman  in  the  position  of  the  hon.  mem- 
ber for  Dorchester,  and  who,  in  virtue  of  that 
position,  may  aspire  to  a  seat  on  the  bench, 
and  who  already  enjoys  precedence  over  the 
majority  of  the  Bar  of  Lower  Canada,  should 
evince  such  deplorable  ignorance  of  our  civil 
law.  In  article  19,  title  5  of  the  Civil  Code, 
relative  to  marriage,  I  find  the  following : — "A 
marriage  celebrated  out  of  Lower  Canada  be- 
tween two  persons,  either  or  both  of  whom  are 
subject  to  its  laws,   is  valid,  if  celebrated 


according  to  the  formalities  of  the  place  of 
celebration,  provided  that  the  parties  did  not 
go  there  with  the  intention  of  evading  the  law," 
Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  since  the  marriage  of  a 
Lower  Canadian  contracted  in  another  coun- 
try in  accordance  with  its  laws,  is  valid  in  this 
country,  the  explanation  and  interpretation 
given  by  the  Honorable  the  Solicitor  General, 
of  the  clause  relating  to  marriage  and  divorce, 
has  no  force  whatsoever,  and  the  clause  may 
as  well  be  struck  out  of  the  resolutions.  (Hear,- 
hear.)  If  I  rightly  understand  that  clause, 
the  legislature  will  have  power  to  deal  with  a 
host  of  matters  relating  to  marriage ;  thus  it 
may  change  that  part  of  the  civil  code  which 
defines  the  age  at  which  a  child  may  marry 
without  the  consent  of  parents  ;  it  may  alter 
the  mode  of  contracting  marriage,  change  the 
mutual  rights  and  duties  of  married  persons ; 
it  will  also  have  power  to  modify  our  civil 
code  in  the  matter  of  our  obligations  arising 
from  marriage,  in  the  matter  of  tutorship, 
paternal  authority,  &c.,  &c.,  in  fact  in  a  mul- 
titude of  its  provisions.  If  that  be  the  great 
protection  aflorded  by  the  new  Constitution  to 
our  laws,  to  our  religious  and  civil  institutions, 
there  is  every  reason  to  fear  that  they  may  one 
day  receive  a  fatal  blow.  I  will  now  call  tho 
attention  of  the  House,  and  particularly  of  the 
French-Canadian  members,  to  the  forty-sixth 
resolution,  which  relates  to  the  use  of  the 
French  language  in  the  Federal  Legislature. 
It  is  as  follows : — "  The  English  and  French 
languages  may  be  used  simultaneously  in 
the  proceedings  of  the  Federal  Legislature 
as  well  as  in  the  Legislature  of  Lower  Can- 
ada, and  also  in  the  Federal  courts  and  in 
the  courts  of  Lower  Canada."  A  close 
examination  of  this  resolution  shews  at  once 
that  it  does  not  declare  that  the  French 
language  is  to  be  on  the  same  footing  as  the 
English  language  in  the  Federal  and  Local  Le- 
gislatures ;  in  place  of  the  word  "  shall,"  which 
ought  to  have  been  inserted  in  the  resolution, 
the  word  used  is  "  may,"  so  that  if  the  Bri- 
tish majority  decide  that  the  Votes  and  Pro- 
ceedings and  Bills  of  the  Bouse  shall  be 
printed  only  in  English,  nothing  can  prevent 
the  enactment  taking  efi'ect.  Of  course  we 
shall  be  allowed  to  use  the  French  language 
in  debate,  but  on  the  other  hand,  it  is  evi- 
dent that  the  majority  may,  whenever  they 
choose,  enact  that  the  bills  and  proceedings 
of  the  House  shall  not  be  printed  in  French, 
and  consequently  the  clause  affords  no  secur- 
ity whatever  to  us  French-Canadians.  I 
take  it  for  granted  that  as  regards  all  the  bills 
or  resolutions  of  this  House,  the  meaning  to 


780 


be  given  to  words  is  that  given  to  them  by 
the  law  of  the  country,  and  I  am  therefore 
justified,  when  explaining  the  resolutions  be- 
fore us,  in  holding  to  the  very  letter  of  their 
resolutions,  and  it  needs  no  efiFort  of  the  im- 
agination to  discover  the  intention  of  those 
who  prepared  them.  The  provincial  statute 
22  Victoria,  chap.  29,  relative  to  the  inter- 
pretation of  the  statutes,  says: — "Whenever 
by  any  act  it  is  provided  that  a  thing  shall 
be  done,  the  obligation  to  do  it  is  to  be  in- 
ferred; but  when  it  is  said  that  a  thing  may 
be  done,  the  power  of  doing  it  is  permissive." 
In  the  resolutions  submitted  us,  the  word 
used  in  the  English  version  is  "may,"  which 
is  translated  into  French  by  the  word  "po?/r- 
ront,''  and  it  is  said  that  the  English  and 
French  languages  may  be  used  simultaneously 
in  the  proceedings  of  the  Federal  Parliament 
as  well  as  in  the  Legislature  of  Lower  Cana- 
da, and  also  in  the  Federal  courts  and  the 
courts  of  Lower  Canada.  It  is  easy  to  see, 
then,  that  the  use  of  the  French  language  is 
rendered  extremely  precarious,  and  that  the 
majority  may  proscribe  it  in  our  Votes  and 
Proceedings,  and  in  our  Legislature.  The  Low- 
er Canada  members  who  have  always  support- 
ed the  Ministry  ought  to  urge  them  to  insert 
a  clause  in  the  resolutions  declaring  that  the 
French  language  shall  be  on  the  same  footing 
as  the  English  language ;  the  guarantee  afford- 
ed us  by  the  resolutions,  as  they  now  stand, 
amounts  to  nothing.  I  am  not  the  first  to 
point  out  the  danger  to  our  institutions  and 
our  laws  ;  the  Canadien  of  this  city  has  enu- 
merated them  over  and  over  again,  and  the 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency  himself, 
who  quite  recently  admitted  in  this  House 
that  he  was  the  editor  in  chief  of  the  Journal 
de  Quebec,  wrote  as  follows  in  that  paper  on 
the  18th  January,  1865.  After  having 
spoken  of  the  past  conduct  of  the  Upper  Can- 
adians, and  more  particularly  of  the  Honor- 
able President  of  the  Council  (Hon.  Mr. 
Brown),  he  says  : — 

For  I  ower  Canada  there  are  other  questious 
still  besides  the  question  of  money  ;  there  are  the 
religious,  social^and  national  questious.  Here 
it  is  that  the  greatest  difficulties  exist  in  the  way 
of  the  success  of  the  scheme,  for  a  few  slight 
changes  in  the  letter  of  the  scheme — changes 
which  will  ill  no  way  affect  the  interests  of  the 
other  provinces — will  cause  the  project  to  be 
accepted  by  the  immense  majority  of  the  popu- 
lation ,„of  the  country.  We  do  not  hesitate  to 
say  that  it  is  astounding  that  the  Conference 
should  have  approximated  so  closely  to  equily, 
after  a  few  days  only  of  work,  and  in  the  uiidat 
of  innumerable  obstacles. 


It  seems  to  me,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  if  the 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency  was  right 
in  telling  the  jMinistry  that  our  nationality 
and  our  institutions  were  in  dani:er,  and  that 
ch  inges  were  required,  we  Fiench-Canadian 
members  are  bound  to  see  that  the  resolutions 
submitted  to  us  afford  sufficient  protection  to 
those  institutions,  and  that  the  resolutions 
are  not  written  in  such  a  way  as  to  be  suscep- 
tible f.f  two  interpretations.  How  has  the 
discussion  of  the  scheme  of  Confederation 
been  conducted  in  Lower  Canada?  In  this 
way :  in  the  fii  st  place,  all  the  Ministerial 
journals  begged  and  prayed  the  peopl-'  not  to 
condemn  the  scheme  before  being  made  ac- 
quainted with  it ;  they  proclaimed  stoutly 
that  the  Government  must  be  allowed  to 
elaborate  its  n.easures  in  peace,  and  then, 
when  the  scheme  was  made  public,  the  same 
journals  declared  that  certainly  the  scheme 
must  be  amended  in  certain  particulars  be- 
fore being  adopted  by  the  'country,  and  that 
they  \>  ould  be  the  first  to  call  for  these  changes, 
which,  moreover,  could  be  obtained  with- 
out difficulty  from  the  Administration ;  if  not, 
they  would  oppose  the  scheme  as  dangerous 
to  Lower  Canada.  Even  the  Mercury  made 
that  statement.  It  was  also  said :  "  The  Gov- 
ernment will  not  make  a  Ministerial  question 
of  the  adoption  of  the  scheme  as  it  is ;  the 
project  may  be  discussed,  and  if  it  is  found 
to  involve  anything  dangerous  lor  our  re- 
ligious and  national  institutions,  that  danger 
can  be  obviated  by  amending  the  resolutions." 
More  than  that,  at  the  opening  of  the  dis- 
cussion of  the  svhcme,  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  for  Upper  Canada  himself  declared 
in  this  House  that  members  mi.ht  propose 
amendments,  and  that  the  House  would  dis- 
pose of  them.  Now  what  have  we  seen 
since  ?  We  have  seen  the  same  Hon.  Minis- 
ter declare  that  the  scheme  must  be  accepted 
as  it  was,  and  that  the  Government  would 
not  tolerate  any  amendment.  Is  >uch  con- 
duct calculated  to  inspire  confidence  in  the 
scheme,  and  in  the  Administration  who  bring 
it  forward  ?  I  appeal  to  liouorablc  members 
from  Lower  Canada,  and  I  ask  them  if  they 
are  prepared  to  ratify  by  their  verdict  the 
unjustifiable  course  adopted  by  tlie  Goveru- 
mont,  and  whether  it  is  not  thoir  duty  to 
insist  on  the  Government  affi  rding  us  bettor 
security  for  our  religious  and  national  insti- 
tutions'  (Hear,  hear.)  I  trust  that  the 
Lower  Canada  members  will  not  shirk  their 
duty,  and  that  they  will  insist  on  the  Gov- 
ernment declaring,  in  their  resolutions,  that 
all  these  things  we  hold  so  dear  shall  be  pro- 


781 


tected  from  the  attacks  of  our  adversaries. 
Every  danger  of  false  interpretation  ought  to 
be  removed  from  these  resolutions.  If,  as  it  is 
stated,  our  language  is  to  be  fully  protected 
under  the  new  system,  I  do  not  see  why  it  is 
not  so  stated  clearly  in  the  Constitution. 
The  explanations  of  the  Honorable  Solicitor 
General  for  Lower  Canada  (Hon.  Mr.  L An- 
gevin) are  all  very  well,  but  they  are  not 
sufl&cient,  and  I  should  much  prefer  a  written 
statement  in  the  Constitution  itself,  formally 
setting  forth  that  these  matters  shall  not  be 
affected  by  any  legislation  of  the  Federal 
Government.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  trust  the 
English  members  of  this  House  will  not  take 
offence  at  my  insisting  on  more  ample  gua- 
rantees for  our  religious  and  national  institu- 
tions, and  that  they  will  see  that  it  is  not 
through  a  spirit  of  hostility  to  their  institu- 
tions, and  that  the  same  motives  that  induce 
them  to  demand  more  ample  guarantees  for 
their  national  minority  in  Lower  Canada — 
guarantees  which  were  claimed  the  other 
evening  by  the  honorable  member  for  Mont- 
real Centre  (Hon.  Mr.  Rose) — make  me  ask 
for  the  same  guarantees  for  my  fellow-coun- 
trymen. 

Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— Will  my 
honorable  friend  allow  me  to  say  a  few  words 
in  explanation  ?  He  said  he  hoped  the  Gov- 
ernment and  members  on  this  side  of  the  House 
would  admit  that  his  desire  was  to  defend  the 
religious  and  national  interests  of  Lower 
Canada.  The  honorable  member  for  Verch^res 
need  not  be  uneasy  on  that  point.  For  it 
must  always  be  taken  for  granted — and  every 
member  on  this  side  of  the  House  will  agree 
with  me  in  this — that  every  sentiment  ex- 
pressed on  the  floor  of  this  House  by  honor- 
able gentlemen  opposite,  relative  to  those  ques- 
tions touching  our  nationality  and  our  re- 
ligion, is  frank  and  sincere,  and  we,  therefore, 
feel  that  in  expressing  himself  as  he  has  done, 
the  honorable  member  for  Verch^res  is  per- 
fectly frank  and  sincere.  However,  I  take  thi. 
liberty  of  answering  him  on  two  points.  The 
first  question  is  that  of  marriage.  The  hon- 
orable member  did  not  quote  the  whole  of 
that  portion  of  my  speech  which  relates  to 
marriage ;  he  simply  quoted  the  first  part, 
but  he  ought  to  have  given  the  second,  which 
is  as  follows  : — 

The  fact  is  that  the  whole  matter  amounts  to 
this—  the  Central  Government  may  decide  that 
any  marriage  contracted  in  Upper  Canada  or  in 
any  of  the  Confederated  provinces,  in  accordance 
with  the  laws  of  the  country  in  which  it  was  con- 
tracted, although  that  law  might  be  different  from 
ours,  should  be  deemed  valid  in  Lower  Canada, 


in  case  the  parties  should  come  to  reside  there, 
and  vice  versa. 

This  was  merely  a  development  of  what  I 
said.  I  stated  before  that  the  interpretation 
I  had  given  of  the  word  "  marriage"  was 
that  of  the  Government  and  of  the  Conference 
of  Quebec,  and  that  we  wished  the  Constitu- 
tion to  be  drafted  in  that  sense.  The  honor- 
able member  for  Verch^res  quoted  that  part 
of  the  draft  of  the  civil  code  which  states 
that  one  of  the  articles  provides  that  a  mar- 
riage contracted  in  any  country  whatever,  ac- 
cording to  the  laws  of  the  country  in  which  it 
shall  have  been  contracted,  shall  be  valid,  and 
he  argues  from  that,  that  since  it  was  declared 
by  the  civil  code,  there  was  no  necessity  for 
inserting  it  in  the  resolutions.  But  the  hon- 
orable member  must  be  aware  that  that  part 
of  the  code  may  be  repealed  at  any  time,  and 
that  if  this  occurred,  parties  married  under 
the  circumstances  referred  to  would  no  longer 
enjoy  the  protection  they  now  have  and  which 
we  desire  to  secure  for  them  under  the  Con- 
stitution. I  maintain,  then,  that  it  was  abso- 
lutely necessary  to  insert  the  word  ''  mar- 
riage" as  it  has  been  inserted,  in  the  resolu- 
tions, and  that  it  has  no  other  meaning  than 
the  meaning  I  attributed  to  it  in  the  name 
of  the  Government  and  of  the  Conference. 
Thus  the  honorable  member  for  Yerch^res  had 
no  grounds  for  asserting  that  the  Federal 
Legislature  might  chanse  that  part  of  the 
civil  code  which  determines  the  age  at 
which  marriage  can  be  contracted  without  the 
consent  of  parents.  Another  point  on  which 
the  honorable  member  for  Verch^res  insisted, 
no  doubt  with  the  view  of  obt:dning  in- 
formation, which  I  shall  be  delighted  to 
afford  if  it  should  induce  him  to  vote  for  the 
resolutions — and  I  am  perfectly  certain  it 
ought  to  be  sufficient — is  the  point  as  to  the 
use  of  the  French  language  under  Con- 
federation. The  forty-sixth  resolution  is  as 
follows : — 

The  English  and  French  languages  may  be 
used  simultaneously  in  the  proceediugs  of  the 
Federal  Parliament  as  well  as  in  the  the  Legisla- 
ture of  Lower*  Canada  and  in  the  Federal  courts 
and  in  the  courts  of  Lower  Canada. 


The  honorable  member  for  Vercheres  says 
"  It  is  true  that  the  French  language  may  be 
used  in  the  Federal  Parliament  ;:nd  in  the 
Legislature  of  Lower  Canada,  as  well  as 
in  the  courts  of  justice  of  the  Con  federation, 
but  the  resolutions  do  not  affirm  that 
that  language  may  be  used  in  the  drafting 
of  laws  and  in  the  Votes  and  Proceedings 
of  the  Federal  and  Local  Legislatui-es.^'  Well 


782 


Mr.  Speaker,  I  am  quite  sure  the  hon- 
orable member  for  Verch^res  will  be  de- 
lighted to  learn  that  it  was  perfectly  well 
understood  at  the  Conference  of  Quebec  that 
the  French  language  should  not  only  be 
spoken  in  the  courts  of  justice,  in  the  Federal 
Parliament  and  in  the  Legislature  of  Lower 
Canada,  but  that,  precisely  as  is  now  the  case, 
the  Votes  and  Proceedings  of  the  Legislature, 
as  well  as  all  the  Federal  laws  and  those  of  the 
Legislatureof  Lower  Canada,  should  be  printed 
in  both  languages.  And  what  is  still  more, 
under  Confederation  the  French  language  will 
be  spoken  before  the  Federal  tribunals,  an 
advantage  which  we  do  not  possess  at  present 
when  we  apply  to  the  Court  of  Appeals  of 
Great  Britain.  So  that  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Verch^res  and  this  honorable  House 
will  gladly  admit  that  its  representatives  at 
the  Conference  of  Quebec  did  not  fail  in  their 
duty  on  that  point.  These  are  the  principles 
upon  which  the  new  Constitution  will  be 
based,  and  I  feel  justified  in  going  so  far  as 
to  say  that  it  was  impossible  to  secure  more 
effectually  this  essential  privilege  of  our 
nationality,  and  at  the  same  time  our  civil 
and  religious  institutions.  I  was  anxious  to 
offer  these  explanations  to  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Vercheres  and  to  the  House,  and 
I  trust  they  will  completely  satisfy  the 
country. 

Mr.  GEOFFRION— The  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Dorchester  (Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  Langevin) 
has  explained  to  us  that  the  intention  of  the 
members  of  the  Conference  of  Quebec  was, 
not  only  that  the  French  language  should  be 
used  in  the  Federal  Legislature  and  the  Local 
Government  of  Lower  Canada,  as  well  as  before 
the  tribunals  of  the  country,  but  that  it  was 
to  be  a  right  guaranteed  to  the  French  popu- 
lation by  the  Constitution  under  Confedera- 
tion. The  honorable  gentleman  has  also  told 
us  that  the  word  "marriage"  inserted  in  the 
resolutions  does  not  signify  anything  else  but 
what  he  explained  to  the  House  in  his  speech, 
and  that  we  ought  to  be  happy  to  see  that  the 
representatives  of  the  French  population  at 
the  Conference  had  thus  secured  the  safety 
of  their  civil  and  religious  institutions.  Foi- 
my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  must  say  that  1 
cannot  bring  myself,  like  the  honorable  mem- 
ber, to  see  the  splendid  protection  he  vaunts 
8u  highly.  If  the  resolutions  now  before  this 
House  have  any  meaning,  that  meaning  is  only 
to  be  derived  from  the  strict  letter  of  the 
resolutions  tlieniselves.  It  will  always  be 
optional  with  the  British  majority  to  avail 
themselves  of  the  letter  of  the  Constitution, 


and  they  may  at  any  time  Bay  to  us  :  "  You 
cannot  have  it,  we  oppose  it,  and  the  Consti- 
tution does  not  confer  on  you  the  rights  you 
claim  under  it."  And  it  will  be  the  more 
easy  for  them  to  do  so  from  the  fact  that  the 
resolution  does  not  affirm  that  these  matters 
cannot  be  disturbed.  If  the  Conference  had 
any  other  intention  than  what  appears  in  the 
resolutions,  the  House  should  be  made  aware 
of  it  before  being  called  upon  to  vote  on  these 
resolutions.  For  if  the  intention  of  the  Con- 
ference was  as  stated  by  the  Honorable  Soli- 
citor General  for  Lower  Canada,  and  if  that 
intention  be  carried  into  effect,  the  House  will 
run  the  risk  of  discovering  that  on  all  the 
other  resolutions  the  intention  is  different 
from  the  letter,  and  will  be  in  like  manner 
carried  out,  for  the  resolutions  must  be  inter- 
preted as  they  stand,  without  reference  to 
the  intention  of  the  members  of  the  Confer- 
ence. And  for  that  reason  I  cannot  help  de- 
claring that  we  French-CanaiUans  would  be 
guilty  of  an  act  ot  unpardonable  imprudence 
in  adopting  a  resolution  which  declares  that 
the  Federal  Legislature  is  to  Lave  the  right 
of  legislating  on  marriage  and  divorce,  and 
which  merely  declares  th-it  the  French  lan- 
guage may  be  used  in  the  Federal  Legislature. 
We  French-Canadian  members,  I  repeat  it, 
ought  to  insist  that  the  word  "shall"  be  sub- 
stituted for  the  word  "  may"  in  the  resolution 
relating  to  this  matter,  with  reference  to  the 
publication  of  the  proceedings  of  the  Legisla- 
ture. If  this  is  not  done,  and  if  we  do  not 
take  every  pot^sible  precaution,  soi;ner  or  later 
the  English  speaking  majority  in  the  Federal 
Legislature  will  unite  against  us  on  this  point, 
and  enact  that  the  laws  shall  be  printed  in  the 
English  language  only.  And  if  we  rest  satis- 
tied  with  the  understanding  referred  to  by  the 
Honorable  Solicitor  General  for  Lower  Can- 
ada, we  shall  be  told  when  we  exclaim  against 
that  injustice:  "You  should  have  obtained 
more  full  and  complete  guarantees,  and  you 
should  have  seen  that  the  Constitution  was 
made  more  explicit  and  moie  precise  on  this 
point."  An  we  shall  have  no  answer  to 
make.  We  must  perforce  be  resigned,  and 
put  up  with  all  the  restrictions  the  ujajority 
may  impose  upon  us.  I  maintain,  therefore, 
that  it  is  the  duty  of  the  Froneh-Canadian 
members  ot  this  House  to  induce  the  tiovern- 
nient  to  embody  the  understanding  arrived  at 
amongst  the  members  of  the  Confert'nce  in 
the  Constitution,  and  to  recjuire  that  the 
guarantees  said  to  bo  afforded  to  us  by  the 
Constitution  shall  be  more  clearly  expressed 
than  they  are  in  the  resolutions.     If  we  vote 


783 


these  resolutions  as  they  are,  we  shall  vote 
without  knowing  exactly  the  nature  of  the 
guarantees  they  afford  us.     (  Cheers.) 

Mr.  re  MILLARD  said— Mr.  Spzakek, 
the  question  of  a  Federal  union  ot  the 
British  Xorth  American  Provinces  b  one 
of  such  importance,  that  at  the  present 
time  it  is  engaging  the  attention,  not  only 
of  this  honorable  Hou«e,  but  also  of  the 
whole  political  world.  I  consider,  there- 
fore, that  it  is  the  ^uty  of  those  to  whom  it 
is  submitted  to  express,  each  in  his  own  way. 
the  reasons  which  induce  them  to  adopt  or 
reject  the  union  in  question.  When  for 
the  first  time,  in  the  year  1861,  the  county 
of  Beliechasse  did  me  the  honor  to  5:;nd  me 
tere  as  its  representative,  I  had  not  the 
slightest  idea  that  I  should  be  ciUed  upon, 
in  the  beginning  of  1^^6.5,  to  take  part  in 
the  discussion  of  such  a  measure,  upon 
which,  in  my  opinion,  our  whole  future 
depends.  So  rapid,  however,  is  the  grovrth 
of  events  in  this  age  of  progress  of  every 
kind,  that  there  is  no  reason  to  be  surprised 
that  we  are  to-day  called  up<3n  to  grapple 
with  the  subject  of  the  pD lineal  position  of 
oar  youthful  country.  I  am  prepared  at 
ocee  to  acknowledge.  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
Ihat  position  has  not  for  several  years  past 
appeared  to  me  to  be  an  enviable  one ;  and 
in  fact  what  has  the  political  aspect  beep  ? 
Within  the  precincts  of  this  House  we  have 
looked  upon  scenes  that  are  to  be  regretted 
and  that  were  of  frequent  <jceurrence  We 
have  looked  upon  bitter  and  incessant  strife 
between  our  public  men  on  the  subject  of 
certain  sectional  difficulties,  which  should 
be  settled  in  a  friendly  way,  if  it  is  otir  wish 
at  a  later  period  to  avoid  serious  troubles. 
We  have  seen  Ministries  succeed  each  other 
at  intervals  of  hardly  six  months — Ministries 
which  were  daily  aecu>ed,  and  in  many  cases 
with  good  reason,  of  haviog  been  guilty  oi 
acts  of  corruption  in  order  to  prolong  their 
feeble  existence.  Without  these  precincts  we 
have  seen  public  jotirnals  fixiei  with  personal 
attacks  and  insults  of  every  kind,  general 
elections  every  year,  carried  in  many  c-.^un- 
ties  by  means  of  fraud,  and  the  fomenting  of 
wretched  prejudices.  (Hear,  hear.)  To 
such  a  degree  had  this  been  carried,  that  the 
people  had  come  to  consider  it  a  highly  me- 
ritorious action  to  calumniate  a  member  or  a 
candidate,  and  to  deprive  him  of  that  good 
character  which  he  had,  in  s  'Uie  cases, 
acquired  by  many  and  great  sicrifices. 
(Hear;  hear.;     Honest  men  can  experieaos 


no  feeling  other  than  distrust  at  sucli  a  poE- 
tical  course,  which  is  inimical  t:>  every  feeling 
of  patriotism,  and  is  fraught  with  danger  to 
our  institutions.  The  Canadian  people,  by 
nature  brave,  intelligent  and  Cutirageotis,  are 
called  upon  to  play  a  more  nuble  and  a  more 
worthy  part  than  that.  Up<5n  our  statesmen, 
let  them  belong  to  what  party  they  may,  it 
devolves  to  provide  them  with  a  career  which 
is  suitable  to  them,  without  taking  into 
consideration  either  prejudices  cr  '  'jub 
expresaed  at  another  period  and  ui  :  aer 
circumstances.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  French- 
Canadians  especially,  if  we  are  desirotis  of 
continuing  to  enjoy,  in  the  midst  of  th.e 
various  races  wh  j  inhabit  this  vast  e>:>ntinent 
of  America,  the  institutions  which  have  been 
so  carefully  preserved  for  us.  and  which  are 
more  precious  to  us  tr^^an  life  itself,  require 
to  se^  an  aliance  with  the  inhabitants  of 
the  other  British  An-erieaQ  Provinces,  with 
which  we  have  interests  in  common,  which 
will  have,  in  ease  of  invasion,  the  same 
enemies  as  ourselves  to  repulse,  and  which, 
like  ourselves,  enjoy  the  advantage  ot  living 
unier  the  protection  of  Great  Britain.  At 
a  time  when  we  are,  so  to  speak,  threatened 
by  the  United  States,  ousht  we  to  be  so 
foolish  as  to  disregard  the  advice  which 
comes  to  us  &om  Great  Britain,  without 
whom  we  could  do  nirthing  for  our  defesee, 
and  to  pretend  serio^aely  that  we  caa 
without  danger  overthrow  the  Federal 
union  which  we  are  discussing,  in  the 
preparation  of  which  our  statesmen  theis- 
selves  prescribed  the  conditions  whicii 
they  considered  to  be  most  equitable  and  the 
best  calculated  to  preserve  the  interests 
which  are  most  dear  to  all  ?  Should  we  act 
in  this  way,  we  shjuld  be  forming  a  verj 
incorrect  estimate  of  our  position  in  relation 
to  England,  and  our  formidable  neighbours 
the  United  States.  The  distinguished  men 
who  took  part  in  the  Conference  held  at 
Quebec  in  the  month  of  October  last,  unani- 
mously declared  that  *-  the  best  into^ests  and 
present  and  future  prosperity  of  British 
>orth  Amoiea  will  be  jHroBOted  by  a  Fede- 
ral union  mnder  the  Crown  <^ Great  Britain, 
provided  such  union  can  be  effected  on  prin- 
ciples jtist  to  the  several  provinces,"  The 
most  eminent  men  in  England  have  repe&ied 
the  same  thing,  and  have  approved  of  the 
scheme  of  the  Conference.  I  do  not  pro- 
pose. Mr.  Speaker,  to  discuss  the  several 
articles  o  jutaioea  in  the  plan  of  union ;  th« 
honorable  members  who  havd  preceded  ■• 


784 


in  this  debate  have,  in  my  opinion,  said  all 
that  can  be  said  on  each  of  the  articles. 
iMoreover,  the  erudite  and  carefully-weighed 
papers  on  the  subject  which  have  been  pub- 
lished in  this  city  in  the  Journal  de  Qu6hec 
and  the  Courrier  du  Canada  have  contri- 
buted to  diffusing  a  knowledge  of  the  scheme 
in  no  less  degree  than  the  numerous 
speeches  which  have  been  delivered  in  this 
House.  Despite  the  good  opinion  which  I 
have  of  some  of  the  honorable  members  who 
have  endeavored  to  prove  to  this  House  and 
to  the  country  that  the  proposed  union  would 
be  more  disastrous  than  advantageous  in  its 
results  to  the  several  provinces  affected  by 
it,  I  must  acknowledge  that  their  arguments 
have  not  convinced  me — I  will  even  say  did 
not  appear  to  me  to  be  convincing.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  hon.  member  for  Lotbini^re  for 
exaii.ple,  in  whom,  as  he  is  aware,  I  have 
confidence,  and  from  whom  I  greatly  re- 
gret to  differ  in  opinion  on  a  measure 
of  such  importance,  is  opposed  to  any 
alteration  in  our  present  Constitution.  He 
finds  that  everything  has  been  for  the  best. 
The  following  is  what  he  said  in  his  eloquent 
speech  : — 

Let  us  not  be  dazzled  bj  the  ambition  of  be- 
coming, all  at  once,  a  great  people.  The  United 
States  are  a  great  people,  but  what  people,  how- 
ever small  it  may  bei,  is  there  which  now  envies 
their  greatness  ?  Let  us  be  satisfied  with  our  lot; 
few  people  have  a  bettor. 

I  agree  with  my  honorable  friend  to  a  certain 
extent.  Like  him,  I  do  not  envy  the  lot  of 
the  United  States,  but  I  disagree  with  him 
as  to  the  means  to  be  taken  to  protect  us 
Against  i-ur  adversaries,  even  against  the 
United  States,  and  to  preserve  our  nation- 
ality. The  honorable  member,  to  prove  that 
the  union  proposed  would  be  an  evil,  quoted 
to  us  the  following  extract  from  Lord 
Brougham's  work  on  Political  Philosophi/  : 

The  Ft  deral  union,  by  keeping  up  a  line  of 
separation  between  its  members,  gives  the  freest 
scope  to  these  pernicious  prejudices,  feelings 
which  it  is  the  highest  duty  of  all  governments  to 
eradicate,  because  they  lead  directly  to  confusion 
and  war. 

I  may  mistake,  but  it  appears  to  me  that 
this  extract  from  Lord  Brougham's  work  is 
not  so  much  opposed  to  a  Federal  union, 
Buch  as  that  which  is  proposed  to  us,  as  it  is 
to  the  exi.«ting  situation  of  the  French- 
Canadians.  In  fact  there  is  a  strong  line  of 
demariation  in  this  province  between  the 
inhabitants  of  Upper  Canada  and  those  of 
JiOwer   Canada;    it   is   that   very    line    of 


demarcation  which  has  given  rise  to  the 
sectional  difficulties  which  our  statesmen 
have  undertaken  to  settle  in  a  friendly  way. 
The  leaders  of  the  Opposition  themselves 
undertook  to  settle  these  difficulties  in  a 
manner  much  less  advantageous  to  Lower 
Canada.  If  then  the  opinion  of  Lord 
Brougham  is  to  be  an  authority  in  this 
case,  it  would  be  the  duty  of  the  Govern- 
ment of  this  province  to  remove  the  line  of 
demarcation  to  which  I  have  alluded  as  ex- 
isting between  the  inhabitants  of  Upper 
Canada  and  tho.'-e  of  Lower  Canada.  This, 
I  am  satisfied,  is  not  what  my  honorable 
friend  desires.  (Hear,  hear.)  When  speak- 
ing of  the  seven  United  Provinces  (now 
Holland  and  Belgium),  the  hon.  member  for 
Lotbini^re  read  the  following  extract  from 
the  first  volume  of  Lord  Maoaulay's  His- 
tory of  England  ; — 

The  union  of  Utrecht,  rudely  formed  amidst 
the  agonies  of  a  revolution,  for  the  purpose  of 
meeting  immediate  exigencies,  had  nevei;  been 
deliberately  revised  and  perfected  in  a  time  of 
tranquillity.  Every  one  of  the  seven  common- 
wealths which  that  union  had  bound  together 
retained  almost  all  the  rights  of  sovereignty,  and 
asserted  those  rights  punctiliously  against  the 
Central  Government. 

This  is  all  that  the  honorable  member  quoted 
from  Lord  Macaulay.  As  may  be  seen, 
Mr.  Speaker,  this  author  is  not  opposed  to 
a  Federal  union  ;  he  simply  points  out  the 
defects  of  tiie  union  of  Utrecht.  That  union 
had  been  rudely  formed,  in  the  midst  of  a 
revolution,  for  the  purpose  of  meeting  imme- 
diate exigencies.  But  our  plan  ot  union 
was  weighed  with  deliberation,  in  a  time  of 
tranquillity,  and  this  tranquillity  is  certainly 
the  result  of  the  formation  of  the  present 
Coalition  Government.  Therefore,  the  author 
who  has  been  quoted  merely  demonstrates 
one  thing,  and  that  is,  that  we  should  be 
wrong  to  await  the  convulsions  of  a  revolu- 
tion, or  of  an  invasion,  in  order  to  discuss 
the  bases  of  a  Federal  union.  (Hear,  hear.) 
The  honorable  member  for  Lotbiui^re  gave 
us  to  understand  that  the  most  certain 
method  of  obtaining  the  friendship  of  the 
Maritime  Provinces,  and  of  securing  their 
sympathy  and  zeal  in  case  of  attack,  was,  so 
to  speak,  to  have  nothing  in  common  with 
those  provinces.  I  believe,  on  the  contrary, 
that  Lower  Canada  would  gain  by  causing 
herself  to  be  bettor  known,  and  by  causing 
the  spirit  of  justice  and  of  liberality  which 
prevails  among  her  inhabitants  and  her 
institutions,  as  they   at  present  exist,  to  be 


785 


better  known.  Docs  not  the  best  under- 
standing exist  between  the  people  of  different 
origins  in  all  classes  of  society  ?  We  every 
day  perceive  with  pleasure,  and  I  am  happy 
to  say  it,  that  Lower  Canada  has  risen  greatly 
in  the  estimation  of  hon.  members  from  Upper 
Canada,  since  it  his  been  their  lot  to  reside 
in  our  midst,  and  to  see  for  themselves  what 
our  institutions  are,  and  what  we  are  our- 
selves. (Hear.)  I  hope  that  my  honorable 
friend  the  member  for  Lotbini6re  will  forgive 
me  if  I  take  the  liberty  of  discussing,  for  a 
few  seconds  longer,  certain  portions  of  his 
speech ;  but  I  am  very  anxious  to  convince 
him  that  I  listened  to  him  with  great  atten- 
tion, and  that  if  he  did  not  succeed  in  con- 
vincing me,  it  was  from  no  fault  of  mine. 
To  set  us  on  our  guard  against  the  proposed 
union,  the  hon.  member  laid  before  us  a  hasty 
sketch  of  the  history  of  Ancient  G-reece,  in 
order  to  shew  us  the  hatred  which  the 
Athenians  bore  to  the  Spartans.  No  doubt 
he  fears  that  that  hatred,  should  the  union 
be  consumraated,  will  manifest  itself  between 
the  inhabitants  of  Lower  Canada  and  the 
inhabitants  of  Newfoundland  and  Prince 
Edward  Island.  He  also  took  us  a  long 
journey  through  various  countries,  in  which 
he  pointed  out  to  us  frequent  insurrections, 
echauffmrees  and  troubles  of  all  kinds  among 
people  living  under  a  system  of  Federal 
union,  and  therefrom  he  drew  the  conclusion 
that  Federal  unions  are  bad  and  pernicious. 
But  did  the  honorable  member  shew  us  that 
the  political  condition  of  those  nations,  pre- 
vious to  their  Federative  union,  was  analogous 
to  ours?  Did  he  shew  us  that  the  basis  of 
those  Federal  unions  was  similar  to  the  basis 
of  that  which  we  propose  to  establish  ?  Did 
those  unions  cause  those  nations  to  pass 
from  a  state  of  prosperity,  tranquillity,  and 
happiness,  to  the  state  in  which  they  have 
been  held  up  to  our  view?  Were  they  situ- 
ated as  we  are  ?  Had  they  the  same  procli- 
vities, the  same  tastes,  and  the  same  antece- 
dents as  we  have  ?  Did  they,  as  we  do,  trace 
their  descent  from  the  two  wisest,  the  two 
greatest  nations  in  the  world  ?  Lastly,  had 
they,  as  we  have,  the  Crown  of  England  to 
protect  them  ?  No !  they  were  not  possessed 
of  any  of  the  advantages  of  which  we  are 
possessed,  and  no  comparison  between  the 
two  cases  was  possible.  (Hear  hear.) 
Besides,  Mr,  Speaker,  is  it  not  suffi- 
cient to  cast  a  glance  at  the  history  of  ail 
countries,  to  perceive  that  everywhere,  under 
all  possible  institutions,  there  have  arisen,  not 
100 


only  Miavffoiiries,  but  even  frequent  wars 
and  sanguinary  revolutions,  characterized 
by  the  greatest  horrors  ?  Have  not  the 
institutions  of  England  and  France  been 
consecrated  in  rivers  of  blood  ?  All  these 
arguments  and  reasonings  adduced  by  the 
honorable  member  for  Lotbini^rc  are  there- 
fore not  applicable  to  the  question  which  is 
submitted  to.  us,  and  are  not  of  a  nature  to 
change  the  opinions  of  those  who  are  in 
favor  of  a  Federal  union  of  all  the  British 
North  American  Provinces,  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  now  return  to  certain  objections  offered  by 
other  honorable  members  of  the  Opposition 
to  the  present  scheme  of  the  Government. 
Thus,  they  spoke  to  us  of  divorce,  and  tried 
to  show  us  that  great  inconvenience  would 
result  from  leaving  to  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment the  right  of  legislating  on  that  subject. 
But  they  do  not  remark  that  by  this  means 
the  members  from  Lower  Canada,  that  is  to 
say,  in  the  Local  Legislature,  will  be  exon- 
erated from  taking  those  questions  into 
consideration.  At  the  present  day,  all  the 
Catholic  members  from  Lower  Canada  are 
opposed  to  divorce  as  a  matter  of  expediency 
and  of  conscience,  and  yet,  even  in  the 
existing  Legislature,  they  cannot  prevent  it. 
Why,  therefore,  blame  the  Government  for 
not  having  prevented  in  the  Federal  Parlia- 
ment that  which  they  c'annot  even  prevent 
here  ? 

Hon.  Mr.  L  AFR  AMBOISE— They  could 
prevent  divorces  in  Lower  Canada. 

Ma.  RE  MILL  ABD— Has  it  ever  been 
very  easy  to  impose  in  Lower  Canada  laws 
upon  the  English  inhabitants  of  that  pro- 
vince, and  to  prevent  them  from  obtaining 
what  they  consider  as  a  right  ?  Nd ;  it 
would  have  be^n  an  act  of  injustice  to 
endeavor  to  force  our  opinions  on  this  subject 
on  the  English  and  Protestant  population  of 
Lower  Canada ;  and  if  an  attempt  had  been 
made  to  do  so.  Confederation  would  probably 
have  failed,  because  the  majority  of  the 
members  of  the  Conference  would  have  main- 
tained their  claims,  and  this  would  have  been 
sufficient  to  prevent  Confederation.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  not  to  be  urged  as  a  crime  against 
the  Government  that  they  have  permitted 
the  Federal  Legislature  to  have  the  power 
of  legislating  upon  subjects  upon  which  we 
ourselves  may  legislate.  For  my  part,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  did  not  enter  upon  this  question 
in  order  to  judge  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion. I  have  sufficient  confidence  in  the 
clergy  to  admit  that  on  this  question  they 


786 


are  the  best  judges,  and  it  is  they  who  ought 
to  decide  whether  there  is  danger  or  not; 
and  there  can  be  uo  cioubt  but  that  the 
bishops  and  t^e  clergy  have  consulted  to- 
gether respecting  this  article,  and  that  they 
came  to  the  conclusion  that  it  is  an  evil 
which  there  are  no  means  of  preventing. 
The  honorable  member  for  Verch^res  (Mr. 
Geoffrton)  maintained  that  it  was  neces- 
sary to  state  clearly  in  the  resolutions  what 
were  the  intentions  of  the  members  of  the 
Conference  in  relation  to  marriage  and  divorce, 
in  order  that  the  Imperial  Government  may 
not  impose  upon  us  a  Constitution  other  than 
that  for  which  we  ask.  Now,  I  have  more 
confidence  than  he  has  in  the  word  of  our 
public  men,  and  in  the  sense  of  justice  of  the 
Imperial  Government.  Our  public  men 
having  made  a  compromise,  and  asked  a 
Constitution  for  the  British  North  American 
Provinces,  which  i.-i  to  do  away  with  tha 
difliculties  which  exist  iu  the  province,  are 
we  for  a  single  instant  to  believe  that  when 
this  scheme,  which  is  framed  to  reestablish 
that  peace,  harmony  and  concord  of  which 
we  stand  iu  need,  is  carried  to  England  that 
a  clause  will  be  inserted  which  would  raise 
the  Lower-Canadians  like  one  man  ?  In  such 
a  case  we  should  see  petitions  pour  into  the 
House  headed  with  the  signatures  of  the 
principal  members  of*  the  clergy,  exclaiming 
against  such  injustice;  in  ^uch  a  case  we 
should  see  real  petitions  against  this  attack 
upon  our  religious  rights.  If  our  institutions 
should  be  so  menaced,  the  Lower  Canadian 
people  would  do  themselves  justice,  if  it 
was  refused  to  them,  and  we  should  no 
longer  enjoy  that  peace  which  now  prevails 
in  Canada  between  populations  of  different 
origins  and  belief,  in  consequence  of  the 
absence  of  disquietude  among  the  people — 
(hear,  hear) — I  have  confidence  enough  in 
the  clergy  and  bishops  of  Lower  Canada  to 
believe  tli:tt  if  that  clause,  on  wliich  so  much 
stress  is  laid,  was  of  a  nature  to  do  any 
inj  'ry  to  our  religious  interests,  they  would 
loudly  exclaim  against  it  and  have  justice 
done  us.  Our  bishops  are  not  in  the  habit 
of  standing  iu  fear  of  the  civil  authorities, 
when  their  duty  calls  them  to  defend  the 
interests  which  arc  entrusted  to  them. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  stated  also  that  the 
clergy  are  not  in  favor  of  the  scheme  of 
{confederation,  because  two  or  three  of  its 
members  have  written  in  newspapers  and 
have  signed  petitions  oi)poscd  to  the  scheme. 
But  is  that  a  manifestation  of  the  opinion  of 


the  clergy?  No;  for  they  do  not  write  in 
the  name  of  the  clergy,  but  simply  in  their 
individual  capacity  as  citizens  ;  for  they  sign 
their  writings  under  their  title  as  citizens. 
Certain  members  of  the  clergy  may  differ 
widely  iu  opinion  from  the  remainder  of 
their  brethren;  as  citizens  they  may  believe 
that  the  scheme  of  Confederation  is  a  bad 
one,  but  those  who  hold  that  opinion  are 
certainly  a  minority,  just  as  in  the  House  it 
is  the  minority  of  the  members  who  are 
opposed  to  Confederation.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Mention  is  also  made  of  the  use  of  the 
French  language ;  it  is  said  that  it  cannot 
be  used  in  the  Federal  Parliament.  But, 
for  my  part,  I  am  of  opinion  that  if  the 
echeme  is  adopted,  the  French  language  will 
be  more  used  and  will  be  held  in  higher 
estimation  in  the  Federal  Parliament,  than 
it  has  been  in  this  Legislature  for  some 
years.  It  is  feared  that  the  laws,  the 
documents  and  the  proceedings  of  the 
Federal  I'arliament  are  not  to  be  printed  in 
the  French  language.  But  what  does  the 
46th  clause  of  the  resolutions  say?  It  says: — 

Both  the  English  and  French  languages  may 
be  employed  in  the  General  Parliament,  and  in 
its  proceedings,  and  in  the  Local  Legislature  of 
Lower  Canada,  and  also  in  the  Federal  courts, 
and  in  the  courts  of  Lower  Canada. 

Thus,  if  the  use  of  the  French  language  can 
be  excluded,  so  also  may  the  use  of  the 
English  language  be  excluded,  for  both  arc 
on  an  equal  footing.  Because  it  is  not 
stated  that  the  laws  and  the  proceedings  of 
the  Federal  Parliament  shall  be  printed  in 
the  French  language,  the  conclusion  is 
drawn  that  they  will  be  so  in  English  ;  but 
the  same  thing  mijiht  be  said  of  the  English 
language,  as  it  is  not  stated  that  they  will 
be  printed  in  that  language.  The  hou. 
member  for  Verch^res  (Mr.  Geoffhion) 
would  have  something  more;  instead  of  the 
resolutions  sotting  forth  that  the  French 
language  may  be  used,  he  would  have  thfui 
declare  that  it  shall  be  used ;  in  that  case 
the  members  from  Lower  Canada  might  be 
compelled  to  speak  French ;  but  are  the 
Upper  Canadian  members  also  to  be  forced 
to  speak  that  language,  they  who  do  nut. 
understand  a  word  of  it?  I  should  be  with 
the  hun.  member  lor  V^erelnire.s  it"  we  could 
compel  Lower  Canadian  members  to  speak 
French,  and  Upper  Canadian  members  to 
speak  English,  as  in  that  ca*e  each  would 
learn  the  language  of  the  other.  1  am  really 
of  opinion  that  if  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 


787 


for  Lower  Canada  had  never  spoken  anything 
but  French  in  this  House,  the  members 
from  Upper  Canada  would  have  learned  that 
laniiuage  in  order  to  understand  him  ;  but 
as  he  wishes  to  n^ake  them  understand  him 
without  putting  them  to  that  trouble,  he 
most  frequently  speaks  English.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  is  said  that  in  the  resolutions 
the  guarantees  which  we  seek  to  have  for 
our  language,  our  laws  and  our  institutions 
are  not  clearly  enough  expressed,  and  that 
the  Imperial  (xovernraent  might,  consequent- 
ly, confer  upon  us  something  other  than  that 
for  which  we  ask.  But  could  not  the  Im- 
perial Government  impose  Confederation 
upon  us  as  it  did  the  union  ?  And  as  it 
does  not  do  so,  but  is  merely  desirous  of 
being  consulted,  we  ought  not  to  believe 
that  it  will  impose  upon  us  conditions  which 
are  opposed  to  our  interests. 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— It  is  pro- 
posed to  impose  it  on  the  Lower  Provinces, 
who  do  not  wish  for  it. 

Mr.  re  MILLARD— Certain  hon.  mem- 
bers consider  our  present  position  an  excellent 
one,  and  say  they  do  not  wish  it  altered. 
But  that  is  not  the  opinion  of  the  greater 
number,  and  nearly  all  the  hon.  members  of 
the  Opposition  have  declared  that  changes 
are  indispensable  and  necessary.  The  hon. 
member  for  Hochelaga  has  acknowledged  it, 
and  has  expressed  his  opinion  on  the  subject. 
When  I  was  a  supporter  of  the  Macdonald- 
DoRlON  Administration,  I  understood  that 
the  members  of  that  Government  were  of 
opinion  that  changes  were  necessary,  and  that 
we  could  not  very  long  remain  in  our  present 
position.  The  hon.  member  for  Hochelaga 
has  admitted  that  the  opinion  of  Upper 
Canada  must  be  respected,  and  that  to  it 
would  have  to  be  granted  representation 
based  on  population  ;  and  the  influence  of 
Upper  Canada  made  itself  felt  by  the  Mag- 
DONALD-jJoRiON  Administration  ,  it  made 
itself  felt  especially  when,  just  before  the 
last  general  elections,  it  bec»me  necessary 
to  oust  the  Honorable  Mr.  Sicotte  from  the 
Ministry  to  satisfy  Upper  Canada.  By 
means  of  Mr.  Sicotte,  elections  had  been 
secured  sulficiently  advantageous  in  their 
results  to  overthrew  the  Cartier-Macdon- 
ALD  Administration,  to  which  I  was  opposed, 
because  I  did  not  wish  to  see  a  c-alition 
between  the  parties,  and  bjcause  I  consid- 
ered that  that  Government  had  made  too  iree 
a  use  of  the  public  muney.  But  I  foresaw 
that  suoner  or  later  I  should  retum  to  the 


Conservative  party,  from  which  I  had  de- 
tached myself  in  consequence  of  the  extra- 
vagant conduct  of  two  or  three  of  its  leaders, 
and  in  consequence  I  was  then  elected  with« 
out  the  assistance  of  any  party.  Alone  I 
strove  with  the  Conservative  party  in  my 
county.  I  was  faithful  to  the  friends  with 
whom  I  went  at  the  time,  and  I  do  not  regret 
that  I  went  with  them ;  so  long  as  they 
stood  in  need  of  me,  I  supported  them  in 
order  that  they  might  avail  themselves  of 
circumstances  to  bring  about  a  change  in  the 
financial  affairs  of  the  country.  I  would  not 
change  my  party  then,  but  matters  and  cir- 
cumstances having  changed,  I  consulted  my 
friends  in  the  county  which  I  represent, 
and  I  was  then  able  to  go  with  the  men 
whom  I  consider  able  to  protect  and  preserve 
our  institutions  and  the  interests  of  the 
country  in  general.  For  this  reason  I  am 
prepared  to  accept  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion prepared  by  theoi,  for  I  have  more  con- 
fidence, as  regards  the  preservation  of  our 
rights  and  our  institutions,  in  the  men  who 
are  now  in  power  than  in  those  with  whom 
I  formerly  worked.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  can- 
not do  otherwise  than  declare  it.  It  is  not 
my  wish  to  insult  any  one;  I  merely  state 
the  reasons  which  have  decided  me  to  go 
with  them;  and  as  I  find  that  it  is  always 
necessary  to  be  in  favor  of  one  party  or  the 
other  in  this  House,  that  is  to  say,  for  that 
one  which  is  considered  to  be  the  best, 
I  do  not  hesitate  to  state  my  opinion  and  to 
declare  mjself  in  favor  of  the  Conservative 
party.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  was  my  intention 
to  reply  to  the  speech  of  the  hon.  member 
for  Richelieu  (Mr.  Perrault),  but  I  per- 
ceive that  my  ideas  do  not  flow  rapidly,  and 
moreover,  I  do  not  wish  longer  to  fatigue 
the  House. 

SEVERAL  VOICES— Go  on  !  go  on  ! 

Mr  re  MILLARD— Well,  I  listened 
with  pain  to  the  language  used  by  the  hon. 
member  for  Richelieu.  Should  what  he 
said  in  French  be  repeated  by  some  one  in 
English,  I  should  greatly  fear  that  it  would 
give  rise  to  prejudice  against  us  among  the 
English  memters.  (Hear,  hear.)  ,  Last 
y  ar  he  said  to  the  members  from  Upptr 
Canada. — "The  French-Canadians  are  learn- 
ijg  the  use  of  arms,  and  if  you  insist  U[  on 
having  representation  based  upon  population, 
they  will  be  turned  against  you ;"  and  this 
year  he  sa}S  that  one  Lower  Canadian  can 
stjnd  against  ton  Upper  Canadians.  He 
considers  himself  fortunate  in   being  under 


788 


the  protection  of  the  English  flag,  and  yet 
his  whole  speech  was  one  insult  to  the 
English  Government,  (Hear,  hear.)  Does 
he  forget,  then,  that  the  French-Canadians 
are  in  a  minority  ?  He  talked  a  great  deal 
about  the  great  men  who  saved  our  nation- 
ality ;  but  if  those  men  had  made  use  of 
such  language  as  the  hon.  member  has  done, 
they  would  not  have  obtained  that  which 
they  did  obtain.  (Hear,  hear.)  Our 
nationality  would  long  since  have  passed 
away  ;  for,  I  repeat  it,  his  whole  speech  was 
one  insult  to  England  and  Englishmen. 
Fortunately  his  speech  was  not  understood 
by  the  English  members  of  this  House,  and 
consequently  it  could  produce  no  effect  upon 
them  ;  and  those  who  did  understand  him, 
moreover,  are  aware  that  he  spoke  for 
himself  alone,  and  that  he  does  not  re- 
present the  opinions  of  the  Lower  Canadian 
members  or  of  the  Lower  Canadian  people. 
I  am  therefore  convinced  that  they  will  bear 
no  ill-will  to  the  French-Canadians  in  conse- 
(juence  of  that  speech.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
has  been  said  that  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion would  entail  the  imposition  of  enormous 
taxes,  and  that  we  should  have  to  provide 
for  the  defence  of  the  country.  And  yet 
most  of  the  hon.  members  who  oppose  this 
scheme  acknowledge  that  the  defence  of  the 
country  must  be  provided  for,  or  at  least 
that  we  must  contribute  our  share  to  it. 
Under  the  present  regime,  the  Government 
has  the  right  of  presenting  a  bill  respecting 
the  militia  or  the  defences,  and  the  members 
may  accept  it  or  may  reject  it  if  they  con- 
sider it  too  burdensome  for  us ;  and  will  the 
case  be  different  in  the  Federal  Parliament  ? 
We  shall  lose  nothing,  under  Confederation, 
in  respect  of  defence,  for  we  shall  have  allies 
who  will  assist  us  in  economising  and  in 
preventing  the  adoption  of  any  measure 
which  would  be  beyond  the  strength  of  the 
country,  for  the  people  of  the  other  prov- 
inces are  no  fonder  of  taxation  than  are 
those  of  Lower  Canada.  It  is  perfectly  well 
known  that  any  change  in  our  position  would 
be  only  to  our  advantage,  under  Confedera- 
tion, in  relation  to  defence ;  for  if  the  United 
State's  should  attack  the  English  provinces, 
they  would  attack  all  the  provinces  together; 
they  would  probably  begin  by  attacking 
Canada,  because  they  think  more  of  Canada 
than  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  In  case  of 
difficulties  arising  between  England  and  the 
United  States,  the  burthen  of  war  would 
fall  upou  us,  for  we  should  be  first  attacked. 


It  is,  therefore,  our  interest  to  be  able  to 
receive  aid  from  the  Maritime  Provinces, 
and  to  be  able  to  convey  the  reinforcements 
which  they  would  send  us,  and  which  Eng- 
land would  send  us,  by  railway.  As  regards 
defence,  I  am  of  opinion  that  Lower  Canada 
would  be  found  to  occupy  the  most  advan- 
tageous position  in  the  Confederacy,  being 
situated  in  the  centre  of  all  the  provinces. 
(Hear,  hear.')  In  a  material  point  of  view, 
we  could  not  but  grow  and  advance.  The 
annexationists  of  the  district  of.  Montreal 
only  are  afraid  of  Confederation.  Indeed, 
all  the  commercial  transactions  of  the  dis- 
trict of  Montreal  arc  with  the  United  States. 
But  if  we  are  not  desirous  of  being  annexed 
to  the  United  States,  and  if  we  are  desirous 
of  preserving  the  institutions  which  are  so 
dear  to  us,  I  maintain  that  we  must  con- 
struct a  Confederacy  which  shall  be  compe- 
tent to  protect  us  from  the  United  States. 
If  we  will  do  nothing  to  show  England  that 
we  are  disposed  to  improve  our  position  in 
relation  to  the  defence  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces,  we  expose  ourselves  to 
see  England  withdraw  her  forces  and  aban- 
don us,  because  she  cannot,  unaided,  carry 
on  the  strife  with  the  United  States.  With 
our  help,  she  would  be  certain  of  victory. 
(Hear,  hear.)  We  ought,  therefore,  to  build 
up  a  Constitution  which  will  establish  such 
relations  between  all  the  provinces  as  shall 
make  of  them  a  single  state  and  a  single 
people,  who  will  unite  in  case  of  war.  We 
may  change  our  Constitution  without  alter- 
ing our  institutions,  and  I  maintain  that  the 
more  monarchical  our  govcrumeut  is,  the 
safer  will  our  institutions  be,  for  in  those 
institutions  the  monarchical  principle  espe- 
cially predominates.  It  is  in  consequence  of 
our  having  always  been  at  peace  that  those 
institutions  have  grown  and  prospered.  If 
England  should  ab.iudon  her  colonies,  the 
United  States  would  take  possession  of  us, 
and  we  should  soon  disappear,  for  tlie  x\.mc- 
rican  Constitution  is  not  sufficient  to  protect 
our  iustilution.s.  The  citizens  of  the  United 
States  would  show  but  little  respect  for 
those  institutions,  and  the  law  would  not 
be  powerful  enough  to  prevent  the  masses 
from  spreading  themselves  in  our  midst,  and 
from  depiiving  us  of  what  wc  hold  most 
dear.  (Hear,  hear.)  In  conclusion,  I  say 
that  I  unite  witli  pleasure  with  the  men 
who  arc  now  proposing  a  -chcmo  which 
I  consider  to  be  of  a  nature  to  preserve  our 
institutions,  our  language,  our  laws  and  our 


789 


religion,  with  that  great  party  which  pos- 
sesses the  confideuce  of  a  large  majority  of 
the  inhabitants  of  this  country.    (Cheers.) 

Dr.  PAQUET  — Mr.  Speaker,  although 
I  am  not  in  the  habit  of  addressing  the 
House,  and  although  the  question  now  under 
consideration  has  already  been  discussed  at 
great  length,  I  cannot  allow  so  important  an 
occasion  to  pass  without  making  known  the 
reasons  which  induce  me  to  protest  against 
the  constitutional  changes  which  are  now  pro- 
posed, and  which  tend  to  nothing  less  than 
the  complete  overthrowing  of  the  Constitu- 
tion under  which  we  have  been  governed 
since  the  union  of  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
Since  the  prorogation  of  Parliament  in  June 
last,  I  have  endeavored  in  vain  to  explain  to 
myself  the  advantages  which  we.  Lower  Can- 
adians, would  derive  from  Confederation,  and 
I  had  lost  myself  in  the  motives  and  the  ob- 
ject of  a  union  of  this  kind,  when  I  had  the 
opportunity  of  reading  in  the  speech  of  the 
honorable  member  for  Sherbrooke  that  "  the 
scheme  of  Confederation  had  not  been  a  new 
question  since  the  days  of  Lord  Durham, 
that  only  the  question  of  carrying  it  into  ef- 
fect was  wanting."  After  having  read  this 
significant  passage,  I  set  myself  to  work  to 
study  and  ascertcun  what  were  the  tendencies 
and  spirit  which  actuated  Lord  Durham, 
and  more  especially,  what  object  he  had  in 
view.  I  did  not  take  long  to  convince  myself, 
as  any  Lower  Canadian  member  may  do  on 
reading  his  celebrated  report,  that  everything 
he  had  in  view  was  calculated  to  secure  our 
annihilation  as  French-Canadians,  and  that 
he  desired  neither  more  nor  less  than  to  sub- 
ject us  to  a  ruling  powqr  exclusively  English. 
When  we  see,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  hon.  mem- 
bers from  Upper  Canada  rejoicing  over  such 
a  scheme,  and  declaring  themselves  so  much 
the  more  satisfied  from  the  fact  that  they 
would  obtain,  by  this  fine  stroke  of  policy, 
more  than  they  had  at  first  hoped  for,  when 
the  honorable  member  for  Lambton  (Mr.  A. 
Mackenzie),  whilst  avowing,  as  he  has  al- 
ways done,  that  his  views  are  but  incomplete- 
ly expressed  in  the  language  which  I  am 
about  to  read,  there  is  reason  for  some  little 
alarm.  This  is  what  that  honorable  gentleman 
said  in  the  House  the  other  night : — 

1  believe  then,  sir,  in  the  iirst  place,  that  Con- 
federation is  desirable  ;  in  the  second,  that  it  is 
attainable ;  and  in  the  third  place,  that  it  is  the 
best  thing  we  can  get,  and  this  last  is  perhaps 
the  strongest  reason  of  all  for  accepting  it.  It  iS 
quite  clear  that  we  must  have  a  settlement  of  our 
difficulties  i'l  some  way,  and  I  think  the  scheme 


proposed  is  a  very  favorable  settlement  of  them. 
I  think  it  is  more  than,  perhaps,  some  of  us  ex- 
pected, at  the  time  when  the  present  Government 
was  formed,  to  bring  about  a  settlement,  and  I 
do  think,  sir,  it  would  be  the  greatest  act  of  mad- 
ness that  western  members  of  this  House  could 
perpetrate,  to  vote  against  it.  (Hear,  hear.)  I 
am  not,  however,  afraid  that  it  will  be  voted 
against  by  them.  I  believe  that  under  it  we  have 
obtained  representation  by  population,  that  we 
have  obtained  what  we  have  long  contended  was 
justly  due  to  us,  that  we  have  obtained  our  legi- 
timate influence  in  framing  the  financial  policy  of 
the  country,  and  that  beyond  this  we  have  ob- 
tained the  prospect  of  building  up  a  great  British 
union  on  this  continent.  We  should  therefore,  I 
think,  in  view  of  these  great  advantages,  overlook 
those  objections  which  may  be  regarded  as  ante- 
cedent to  the  scheme,  and  endeavor  heartily  to 
carry  out  the  work  successfully.  I  shall  willingly 
yield  my  support  to  the  scheme,  and  I  believe  it 
will  be  acceptable  to  the  people  I  represent — not 
only  to  the  people  of  the  locality,  but  to  those 
who  surround  me  in  Upper  Canada. 

If,  Mr.  Speaker,  honorable  gentlemen  from 
Upper  Canada  are  permitted  to  give  utter- 
ance to  such  opinions  as  those,  I  hope  that 
my  fellow-countrymen  from  Lower  Canada 
will  permit  me  to  vindicate  their  rights. 
(Hear,  hear.)  But  let  us  proceed  to  examine 
this  Confederation,  to  which  the  practical 
question  is  alone  wanting.  I  read  fr.'m  the 
report  of  Lord  Durham  : — 

I  entertain  no  doubts  as  to  the  national  char- 
acter which  must  be  given  to  Lower  Canada ;  it 
must  be  that  of  the  British  Phnpire  ;  that  of  the 
majority  of  the  population  of  British  America; 
that  of  the  great  race  which  must,  in  the  lapse  of 
no  long  period  of  time,  be  predominant  over  the 
whole  North  American  continent.  Without 
effecting  the  change  so  rapidly  or  roughly  as  to 
shock  the  feelings  and  trample  on  the  welfare  of 
the  existing  generation,  it  must  henceforth  be  the 
first  and  steady  purpose  of  the  British  Govern- 
ment to  establish  an  English  population,  with 
English  laws  and  language,  in  this  province,  and 
to  trust  its  government  to  none  but  a  decidedly 
English  legislature. 

A  little  further  on  in  the  same  report,  I  read 
as  follows : — 

If  the  population  of  Upper  Canada  is  rightly 
estimated  at  400,(100,  the  English  inhabitants  of 
Lower  Canada  at  150,000  and  the  French  at 
450,000,  the  union  of  the  two  provinces  will  not 
only  Qive  a  clear  English  majority,  but  one  which 
would  be  increased  every  year  by  the  influence  of 
English  emigration  ;  and  I  have  no  doubt  that 
the  French,  when  once  placed,  by  the  legitimate 
course  of  events  and  the  Avorking  of  natural 
causes,  in  a  minority,  would  abandon  their  vain 
hopes  of  nationality.     (Hear,  hear.) 


790 


Hon.  Mr.  CAUCHON— He  was  in  error. 
That  all  related  to  the  Union  Act  and  to 
nothing  else. 

Mr.  PAQUET  —  Yes  ;  it  had  reference 
to  the  beginning  of  the  end.  (Hear,  hear.) 
A  little  further  on  I  read  as  follows  : — 

A  general  Legislative  union  would  elevate  and 
gratify  the  hopes  of  able  and  aspiring  men. 
They  would  no  longer  look  with  envy  and 
wonder  at  the  great  arena  of  the  bordering 
Federation,  but  see  the  means  of  satisfying 
every  legitimate  ambition  in  the  high  offices  of 
the  judicature  and  executive  government  of 
their  own  union. 

Again  I  find  the  following  passage  : — 

But  even  in  the  administration  of  justice,  an 
union  would  immediately  supply  a  remedy  for 
one  of  the  most  serious  wants  under  which  the 
provinces  labor,  by  facilitating  the  formation  of 
a  general  appellate  tribunal  for  all  the  North 
American  colonics. 

And  again : — 

The  completion  of  any  satisfactory  commu- 
nication between  Halifax  and  Quebec  would, 
in  fact,  produce  relations  between  these  provin- 
ces that  would  render  a  general  union  absolutely 
necessary.  Several  surveys  have  proved  that  a 
railroad  would  be  perfectly  practicable  the  whole 
way. 

And  thus  we  come  to  the  Intercolonial  Rail- 
way; and  it  is  easy  to  perceive  that  Lord 
Durham,  from  the  beginning  to  the  end  of 
his  report,  preaches  in  favor  of  the  very  Con- 
federation which  we  are  about  to  have  im- 
posed upon  us.  Even  before  Lord  Durham, 
Judge  Sewell,  in  1814,  had  expressed  opin- 
ions nearly  similar  to  those  of  the  noble  lord, 
and  in  1839  the  whole  of  the  present  plan  of 
Confederation  was  traced  out.  The  honorable 
member  for  Montmorency  pretends  that  Lord 
Durham  was  mistaken ;  but  for  my  part  I 
find,  in  addition  to  the  other  causes  of  reproach 
which  have  been  accumulated  against  the 
members  of  the  Conference,  we  may  urge  this, 
that  they  did  not  give  Lord  Durham  credit 
for  the  work  he  had  already  done,  and  that 
they  did  not  endorse  upon  the  scheme  of 
Confederation  now  laid  before  us  the  words 
"  True  copy  of  the  scheme  of  Lord  Durham 
as  set  forth  in  his  report  to  the  British  Gov- 
ernment." (Hear,  hear.)  French-Canadian 
nationality  has  been  talked  about.  Lord 
Durham  speaks  of  it  in  his  report  in  the 
foilowintr  terms :  "  The  error  of  Lower  Can- 
ada consists  especially  in  that  vain  attempt  to 
preserve  a  French-Canadian  nationality  in  the 
midst  of  Anglo-Auierican  states  and  colonies."' 
When  is  the  imposition  of  a  new  nationality 


spoken  of,  if  not  at  the  time  when  it  is  sought 
to  snatch  from  a  people  that  which  it  already 
possesses?  There  will  be  opposition,  I  trust; 
for  otherwise,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  cannot  com- 
prehend the  logic  of  honorable  members  who 
emphatically  declare  that  they  will  stand  by  it 
at  any  risk.  I  am  well  aware  that  the  na- 
tionality of  a  people  cannot  be  changed  by  a 
mere  act  of  the  Legislature  ;  but  why  should 
obstacles  be  placed  in  our  path,  why  should 
we  submit  to  the  yoke  of  the  oppressor,  when 
there  is  no  legitimate  ground  for  imposing  it 
upon  us  ?  Another  reason  which  gives  me 
good  ground  for  hoping  that  the  work  of 
destruction  will  not  be  accomplished  in  a 
hurry,  as  desired  by  the  honorable  members 
of  the  Administration,  is  that  it  is  a  difficult 
matter  to  ostracise  a  ptople  which  numbers 
more  than  a  million.  The  example  of  Bel- 
gium suffices-  to  prove  it  to  us,  and  also  that 
of  Greece,  which,  after  three  centuries  of  ty- 
ranny and  oppression,  stood  up  manfully  and 
exclaimed,    "  We    arc    still 


GrecKs. 


i-c  " 


am 


confident,  then,  that  following  their  example, 
in  defiance  of  all  the  constitutions  that  may 
be  framed  for  us,  and  of  all  the  vexations  to 
which  we  may  have  to  submit,  we  also  shall 
come  out  triumphant  from  our  trials,  exclaim- 
ing, "  We  are  still  French-Canadians."  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  honorable  members  of  the  Gov- 
ernment, and  especially  those  from  Lower 
Canada,  ought  not  to  forget,  either  in  our 
interest  or  in  their  own,  that  a  generation 
which  detaches  itself  from  the  generations 
which  preceded  it  runs  the  risk  of  being  repu- 
diated by  the  generations  which  come  al'ter ; 
that  social  existence  is  not  concentrated  in  a 
single  period,  that  jt  influences  the  future. 
These  honorable  gentlemen  would  do  well  to 
reflect  on  this  before  imposing  upon  us  the 
practical  question  of  Lord  Durham.  Passing 
now,  Mr.  Speaker,  to  the  financial  question, 
I  regret  that  1  cannot  agree  in  the  views 
expressed  by  the  honorable  member  for  Dor- 
chester (the  Honorable  Solicitor  General  for 
Lower  Canada),  who  claims  to  have  expressed 
an  official  opinion  ou  this  head.  Although  ho 
has  affirmed  that  he  drew  them  fron\  authentic 
sources,  the  results  which  he  has  obtained 
from  his  calculations  difl'or  from  those  which 
I  have  obtained,  founded  upon  the  figures 
which  he  has  made  use  of  to  establish  his 
proposition.  He  has  declared  tliat  we  shall 
have  a  surplus  of  $200,UU0. 

Mr.  eric  DOIUON— And  he  added 
that  we  should  be  in  a  position  to  lend  the 
amount. 


791 


Mr.  PAQUET— I  shall  now  submit  to  this 
honorable  House  a  statement  of  the  expen- 
diture which  will  be  incurred  by  the 
Government  of  Lower  Canada  : — 

Administratioa  of  justice _ $364,785 

Deducting  tlie  salaries  of  the  judges. .       5i),00U 

$314,785 

Education 254,000 

Scientific  institutions 5,900 

Hospitals  and  charities 124,949 

Board  of  Arts  and  Manufactures 3,5i'0 

Agriculture 50,000 

Repairs  and  public  buildings 15,000 

Colonization  and  roads 113,000 

Timber  cullers 35,000 

Office  and  other  continsrencies    77,000 

Public  works .". . . .  30,000 

Slides 15.000 

Surveys 30,000 

Court  houses  and  gaols 10,500 

Rent  of  site  of  Parliament  house. 4,444 

Legislation 200.000 

B.x:ecutive  Government 100,000 

Public  departments 100,000 

Public   lands 37,000 

Publication  of  the  laws 20,000 

Elections 15,000 

River  police 30,000 

Unforeseen    expenditure. 10,000 

Interest  on  the  Federal  debt,  share  of 

Lower  Canada 300,000 

Total  expenditure .$1,885,078 

Local  revenue  estimated  at  about. . . .  1,400,000 

Deficit $485,078 

These  figures  are  taken  from  the  Public 
Accounts  for  last  year.  Subtracting  from 
that  sum  the  estimated  amount  of  the 
revenue  of  the  Local  Government,  instead  ot 
a  surplus  there  will  be  a  deficit  of  S4:85,088j 
and  I  ask  you,  Mr.  Speaker,  how  arfe  we 
to  meet  it  otherwise  than  by  direct  taxation, 
or  by  diminishing  the  public  appropriations, 
which  are  by  no  means  excessive  now  ? 
(Hear,  hear. )  If  we  do  not  adopt  the  latter 
alternative,  there  ^will  remain,  I  say,  no 
other  means  than  direct  taxation.  The  Hon. 
Minister  of  Finance,  moreover,  told  us 
so  expressly,  in  these  words  : — 

The  Federal  Legislature  will  have  power  to 
impose  any  system  of  duties  which  they  may 
think  proper  to  meet  the  expenses  of  its  admin- 
istration, whilst  the  local  legislatures  will  be 
obliged  to  have  recourse  to  direct  taxation  for 
the  same  purpose,  if  their  revenues  prove  in- 
sufficient. 

For  my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  affirm  that 


the  country  is  not  ready  to  submit  to  such  a 
state  of  things,  and  in  this  matter,  as  also 
upon  the  scheme  itself,  1  am  quite  certain 
that  I  express  the  opinion  of  my  county. 
(Hear,  hear.)  A  third  point,  which  I  would 
humbly  submit  for  the  consideration  of  the 
House,  is  the  expediency  of  pressing  for 
the  adoption  of  this  measure  before  an  ap- 
peal has  been  had  to  the  people.  I  believe 
and  I  hope  that  the  House  will  have  too 
much  respect  Jor  itself  and  for  the  people  to 
vote  at  once  upon  the  lesolutions  now  sub- 
mitted to  us.  If,  however,  public  opinion  is 
not  to  be  regarded,  I  flatter  myself  that 
at  all  events  precedents  will  not  be  treated 
with  contempt.  We  find  in  the  History  of 
Canada,  by  Christie,  that  in  1823,  when  a 
proposition  was  made  in  the  Lower  Canadian 
Parliament  to  effect  changes  in  the  Con- 
stitution, the  following  decision  was  come  tO' 
by  the  Government  of  Lower  Canada,  and 
the  paragraph  I  am  about  to  read  formed 
part  of  the  Speech  from  the  Throne  :  — 

I  am  commanded  to  inform  you  that  His 
Majesty's  Ministers  proposed  to  Parliament  cer- 
tain alterations  in  the  act  thirty-first  George  the 
Third,  -chapter  thirty-one,  prmcipally  with  a  view 
to  unite  into  one  the  two  legislatures  of  Upper 
and  Lower  Canada  ;  but  the  measure  was  with- 
drawn and  postponed  to  the  next  session,  in  order 
to  afford  an  opportunity  ot  ascertaining  the  sen- 
timents of  the  people  of  those  provinces  upon  it. 

(Hear,  hear).  In  the  same  history  we  find 
another  example,  which  will,  I  believe, 
strongly  support  me  in  the  position  I  have 
taken : — 

In  1839  Lord  John  Russell  gave  notice  in 
the  Hous  •  of  Commons,  on  the  3rd  June,  of 
certain  resolutions  which  he  intended  to  submit 
relating  to  the  projected  union  of  the  Canadas. 
He  was,  however,  induced,  on  the  suggestion  of 
Sir  Robert  Peel,  to  waive  them,  and  at  once  to 
introduce  his  bill  for  the  purpose.  In  domg 
which  he  stated  it  to  be  his  intention  to  carry  it 
only  through  a  second  reading,  in  order  that  it 
might  undergo  discussion,  but  that  having  re- 
ceived a  strong  protest,  on  the  part  of  Upper 
Canada,  against  the  intended  union,  he  did  not 
deem  it  advisable  to  legislate  that  session  finally 
on  the  subject. 

Here  we  have  another  fact  which  proves  that 
in  England,  in  1839,  the  measure  was 
opposed  at  its  second  reading,  and  that  a 
year  was  given  to  the  Canadian  people  to 
reflect  upon  the  merits  ot  the  proposed  union 
of  the  two  Canadas.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  tru'^t 
then,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  what  was  done  in 
1839  will  again  be  done  in  relation  to  the 


792 


project  of  Confederation.  For  tlaese  reasons 
I  am  of  opinion  that  the  Government  ought 
not,  in  the  first  place,  to  humiliate  us  by- 
taking  from  us  the  privileges  to  which  we 
are  entitled,  then  ruin  us  by  a  scheme  which 
must  triple  the  expenditure,  and  lastly,  fail 
in  the  respect  which  they  owe  to  the  people, 
by  refusing  to  consult  them  before  changing 
the  Constitution.  If  I  am  not  grently  mis- 
taken, the  party  which  is  seeking  these  con- 
stitutional changes  is  the  very  party  which 
calls  itself  Conservative,  who  obtained  their 
elections  to  preserve  and  guard  the  Consti- 
tution, and  which  has  always  opposed  us 
because,  it  exclaimed,  we  were  the  allies  of 
the  hon.  member  for  South  Oxford  (Hon.  Mr. 
Brown),  to  whom,  said  they,  wc  were  ready 
to  concede  representation  by  population,  the 
powerful  lever  which  was  to  endaoger  all 
our  civil  and  religious  institutions.  Well, 
what  do  these  hon.  gentlemen  do  to-day  ? 
Instead  of  preserving  the  Constitution,  they 
change  it  and  indeed  destroy  it,  by  granting 
to  Upper  Canada  preponderance  in  the  repre- 
sentation. I  prove  this  by  citing  the  fol- 
lowing extract  from  the  speech  of  the  Hon. 
Minister  of  Finance  (Hon.  Mr.  Galt)  : — 

Now  it  became  necessary  to  introduce  into  the 
constitution  of  tbe  Lower  House  the  principle  of 
representation  proportioned  to  population  ;  for 
without  that,  Upf.er  Canada,  who  has  so  long 
demanded  this  reform,  would  never  have  consent- 
ed to  enter  into  the  Confederation. 

If  Upper  Canada  would  never  have  consent- 
ed to  enter  into  *ho  Confederation  without 
representation  by  population,  then  she  has 
obtained  it,  as  she  has  consented  to  enter  the 
Confederation;  and  wli}"^  say  that  that  measure 
has  not  been  conceded  i*  In  conclusion,  I 
atiirm  that  the  proposed  Confederation  of  the 
provinces  is  only  a  Legislative  union  in  dis- 
guise, and  I  will  cite  the  language  made  use 
of  a  short  time  ago  by  a  man  well  known 
throughout  the  country  for  his  talents  and 
his  eloqucuce,  at  a  meeting,  held  in  the  city 
ot  Montreal,  to  condemn  tlie  Ministerial 
scheme,  that  the  present  Conl'ederation  is 
but  the  chr}salia  of  a  Legislative  union,  and 
that  the  butterfly  would  not  be  long  in 
making  its  appearance.     (Cheers.) 

Mil.  0' II ALLOJIAN— Before  proceeding, 
Mr.  Speaker,  to  offer  a  few  observations  on 
the  resolutions  in  your  hands,  I  may  say 
that  if  i  had  any  hesitation  in  pronouncing 
on  the  merits  of  this  scheme,  I  might  have 
taken  a  preliminary  exception  to  the  jurisdic- 
tion of  this  House  to  pass  this  measure.  You, 


sir,  and  I  were  sent  here  to  make  laws,  not 
legislatures.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  were  sent 
here  to  work  out  the  Constitution  of  this 
country — not  to  undermine  and  destroy  it. 
There  is  not  an  elector  from  Gasp6  to  Sarnia, 
however  humble  he  may  be,  who  has  not  just 
as  much  right  to  pronounce  upon  this  ques- 
tion as  you  and  I  have.  Therefore,  if  it  were 
my  wish  to  shirk  this  question,  which  it  is 
not,  I  could  justify  myself  by  saying  it  was 
no  part  of  my  mandate,  or  of  the  compact 
between  me  and  those  who  sent  me  here. 
When  we  assume  the  power  to  deal  with  this 
question,  to  change  the  whole  system  of  Gov- 
ernment, to  effect  a  revolution,  peaceful 
though  it  be,  without  reference  to  the  will 
of  the  people  of  this  country,  we  arrogate 
to  ourselves  a  right  never  conferred  upon 
us,  and  our  act  is  a  usurpation.  But  I  rise 
not  for  the  purpose  of  discussing  this  scheme 
in  detail,  as  it  has  already  been  discussed  so 
fully — and  I  cannot  possibly  say  mtich  which 
may  not  already  in  substance  have  been 
said,  and  much  better  said  than  I  could 
expect  to  say  it  —  but  I  rise  to  record  my 
protest  against  the  usurpation  which  this 
House,  in  my  humble  opinion,  is  guilty 
of  in  undertaking  to  pass  this  measure,  or, 
so  far  as  in  its  power  lies,  to  impose  upon 
the  people  of  this  country  a  Constitution  con- 
trary to  their  wishes — a  Constitution  which 
they  will  never  have  an  opportunity  ol" 
seeing,  until  they  are  called  upon  to  submit  to 
it  and  obey  it.  I  rise  to  protest  also  against 
this  parliamentary  gag  by  which  the  at- 
tempt is  made  to  suppress  free  discussion  in 
this  House,  and  to  compel  it  to  adopt  against 
its  will,  or  against  its  reason  and  judgment, 
a  measure  with  which,  perhaps,  a  very  large 
number  of  the  honorable  members  of  this 
House  have  no  real  sympathy.  It  is  no 
answer'  to  me  to  say  that  I  may  express  my 
views  freely — that  I  may  fully  discuss  this 
question.  It  is  no  answer  to  say  that  I  have 
the  privilege  of  pointing  out  the  defects  of 
this  measure,  if  I  am  denied  the  privilege  of 
obtaining  the  sense  of  this  House,  and  of  put- 
ting on  record  what  I  may  consider  its 
objectionable  features — if  I  am  denied  the 
right  of  submitting  to  the  House  substantive 
motions  and  resolutions,  which  might  perhaps 
meet  the  sense  of  the  majority  of  this  House, 
and  which  at  all  events  would  afford  to  the 
people  of  this  country  the  opportunity  of 
knowintir  the  views  of  tlic  honorable  members 
of  this  House  upon  possible  amendments 
which  might  be  proposed  to  this  measure.  At 
an  early  period  of  this  session,  I  gave  notice 


793 


of  substantive  resolutions  which,  however  lit- 
tle they  might  have  met  the  sense  of  the  ma- 
jority of  this  House,  express  the  views  of  a 
large  majority  of  my  constituents.  It 
would  interest  them  to  see  how  far  those 
views  met  the  approbation  of  the  representa- 
tives of  the  people  here ;  it  would  interest 
them  to  know  how  far  honorable  gentlemen 
from  Upper  Canada  are  prepared  to  go  to  in- 
sure to  the  English  speaking  minority  of 
Lower  Canada  those  rights  and  liberties 
which  they  claim  for  themselves ;  it  would 
afford  us  some  criterion  by  which  we  might 
measure  the  degree  of  protection  we  should 
find  in  the  Federal  Parliament,  from  possible 
oppression  in  our  Local  Parliament.  For  if 
honorable  gentlemen  from  Upper  Canada,  on 
the  floor  of  this  House,  will  not  hear  us  to- 
day, if  they  manifest  an  indifference  to  the 
injustice  about  to  be  inflicted  upon  the  Eng- 
lish speaking  inhabitants  of  Lower  Canadii 
by  the  proposed  Constitution,  what  guarantee 
have  we  that  similar  selfishness  may  not  mark 
their  conduct  after  we  shall  be  powerless  to 
rebuke  it  ?  I  will  read  those  resolutions  which 
I  had  designed  to  propose,  for  the  purpose  of 
obtaining  the  opinion  of  the  House  on  a 
modification  of  this  measure,  which,  if  it 
must  be  adopted,  might  possibly  have  been 
so  amended  as  to  remove  many  serious  objec- 
tions now  entertained  to  it  by  a  large  portion 
of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada.  They  are 
in  these  words  : — 

Resolved,  That  assuming  the  Federal  system 
of  government  to  be  a  political  necessity  in  a 
union  of  the  British  North  American  provinces, 
any  Confederation  of  those  provinces  which  ig- 
nores the  diifereuce  of  race,  language  and  reli- 
gion of  the  inhabitants  of  the  respective  siates  or 
territories  sought  to  be  thus  united,  and  is  not 
framed  with  a  view  to  secure  to  the  inhabitants 
of  each  such  state  or  territory  the  management 
of  their  own  local  afifairs,  in  accordance  with 
their  own  peculiar  views  and  sentiments,  is  un- 
wise and  inexpedient,  and  not  conducive  to  good 
government,  or  to  the  peace  and  tranquillity  of 
those  for  whom  it  is  framed. 

This  resolution  I  put  forth  simply  for  the 
sake  of  shewing  the  idea  which  I  had  in  my 
mind,  without,  I  am  free  to  confess,  any 
expectation  that  the  particular  modification 
which  I  was  about  to  propose  would  meet  the 
sense  of  the  majority  of  this  House,  but  as 
giving  an  indication  of  the  direction  in  which 
the  English- speaking  inhabitants  of  Lower 
Canada  would  consider  that  their  interests 
might  be  best  preserved.  The  second  reso- 
lution I  designed  to  propose  is  as  follows: — 

Resolved,  That  with  a  view  to  secure  to  that 
101 


portion  of  the  inhabitants  of  Lower  Canada  speak- 
ing the  English  language,  the  free  exercise  and 
enjoyment  of  their  own  ideas,  institutions  and 
rights,  in  any  proposed  Confederation  of  the  pro- 
vinces, Canada  should  be  divided  into  three  civil 
divisions,  to  wit :  Western,  Central,  and  Eastern 
Canada. 

Why  is  it  that  objection  is  made  to  a  legisla- 
tive union  ?  The  reason  why  so  large  a  por- 
tion of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  of  French 
origin  will  not  consent  to  a  legislative  union, 
is  the  very  reason  that  makes  it  desirable  to 
the  English  speaking  population  of  Lower 
Canada.  We  are  in  favor  of  a  legislative 
union.  We  desire  that  Canada  should  be  a 
united  people,  ignoring  sectionalism,  and  bas- 
ing our  institutions  upon  one  broad  principle 
of  Canadian  nationality,  which  shall  blend  all 
races,  and  in  time  obliterate  all  accidental 
distinctions  of  language,  religion,  or  origin. 
Our  French-Canadian  fellow-subjects  will  not 
consent  to  this.  If  they  will  not  hear  our 
arguments,  let  them  listen  to  their  own.  If 
Federalism  is  necessary  for  the  protection  of 
their  rights,  it  is  necessary  in  a  tenfold  degree 
for  the  protection  of  the  rights  of  the  English 
speaking  minority.  They  tell  us  we  may  rely 
upon  their  well-known  liberality  and  toleration. 
We  cannot  consent  to  hold  our  liberties  by 
mere  sufferance,  when  we  are  entitled  to  hold 
them  by  right.  It  would  be  unworthy  of  us 
to  submit  to  such  humiliation.  In  these 
remarks  which  are  forced  from  me,  and  which 
I  am  compelled  to  make  in  defence  of  the 
rights  and  liberties  of  those  who  sent  me  here, 
I  mean  no  disrespect  to  those  of  another  origin 
— to  the  French-Canadian  honorable  gentle- 
men whom  I  see  around  me.  (Hear,  hear.) 
In  many  respects  I  sympathise  with  them, 
and  have  always  sympathised  with  them.  I 
desire  to  live  among  my  French-Canadian 
fellow-subjects  in  peace.  I  desire  to  maintain 
thtjse  amicable  relations  which  have  always 
subsisted  between  the  English-speaking  and 
the  French-Canadian  populations  of  Lower 
Canada.  As  I  said  before,  I  sympathise  with 
my  French-Canadian  fellow-subjects  in  many 
respects.  I  respect  their  character,  I  admire 
their  laws.  But  this  antagonism  is  not  courted 
by  me.  It  is  forced  upon  me.  Let  me  call 
the  attention  of  honorable  gentlemen,  more 
especially  of  those  from  Upper  Canada,  to 
the  position  in  which  this  proposed  Constitu- 
tion now  before  the  House  would  place  the 
English-speaking  people  of  Lower  Canada. 
I  may  say  at  the  outset,  that  although  they 
number  only  one-fourth  of  the  population, 
they  possess  at  least  one-third  of  the  property, 


794^ 


and  pay  one-half  of  the  taxes.  The  French- 
Canadian  differs  very  materially  in  many 
respects  from  the  Euglishman,  or  the  Angic- 
Saxon.  He  is  more  simple  in  his  habits, 
more  frugal  iu  his  mode  of  life,  and  loss  dis- 
posed to  novelty.  He  is  content  to  ride  in  a 
carriaye  of  the  sa'i,e  fashion  as  that  of  his  grand- 
ather.  He  is  wed^eil  to  his  institutions,  his 
old  customs,  and  old  laws.  It  is  different 
with  the  English-speaking  people.  They  are, 
as  a  people,  more  extravagant,  more  eager  for 
novelty,  and  in  many  other  respects  widely 
different  from  the  French-Canadians  in  their 
tastes  and  habits.  Of  course  a  comparison 
would  be  invidious,  and  I  do  not  desire 
to  institute  one.  But  I  am  not  at  liberty 
to  ignore  the  facts.  Let  us  see  how,  under 
this  proposed  Constitution,  the  English-speak- 
ing people  would  be  placed  in  reference  to 
their  peculiar  interests  and  their  peculiar 
ideas.  In  the  first  place,  I  would  desire  to 
direct  your  attention  to  the  14th  resolution, 
by  which  it  is  provided  how,  o.-pucially  after 
the  local  governments  are  establi.^iA-d,  the  Le- 
gislative Council  of  the  General  Government 
is  to  be  constituted — by  its  members  being 
appointed  by  the  Federal  Government  on  the 
nomination  of  the  respective  local  govern- 
ments. We  must  bear  in  mind  that  iu  this 
Local  Legislature  which  will  be  imposed  on 
Lower  Canada,  the  English  clement  will  not 
certainly  be  more  than  one-fifth  in  number. 
Under  these  circumstances,  and  under  the 
peculiar  provisions  with  reference  to  the  powers 
granted  to  the  local  governments,  by  which 
the  legislative  councillors  are  to  be  appointed 
by  the  General  Government  on  the  recommen- 
dation of  the  local  governments,  and  in  the 
case  of  Lower  Canada,  when  its  Local  Govern- 
ment will  be  four-fifths  French-Canajian  and 
only  onq-filth  of  English  origin,  think  you 
how  many  English  members  from  Lower  Ca- 
nada would  ever  find  their  way  to  the  Legis- 
lative Council  ?  How  would  it  be  possible, 
when  the  Legislative  Council  is  to  be  ap- 
pointed on  the  recommendation  of  the  Local 
Government,  and  that  Local  Government 
four-fiftlis  French-Canadian,  for  the  English 
element  to  obtain  fair  represcntati(m  in  the 
Legislative  Council  ?  When,  i  say,  would  an 
English-speaking  iidiabitant  of  Lower  Can- 
ada ever  receive  such  a  recommendation,  un- 
less he  approved  himself  more  French  than 
i'juglishV  (Hear,  liear.)  Again,  by  tlie 
23rd  resolution,  it  is  provided  that  "  the  Le- 
gislature of  each  province  shall  di\ide  such 
province  into  the  proper  number  oi'conslituen- 
oiek),   uud  defiuti    the    buuudurici  uf  eaoh  oi 


them."  How  easy  would  it  be,  under  the 
provisions  of  that  clause,  for  the  Local  Legis- 
lature to  snuff  out  one-half  of  the  English  con- 
stituencies in  Lower  Canada.  They  might 
arrange  t  eir  bounds  in  such  a  manner  that 
the  English-speaking  element  would  be  con- 
fined within  very  narrow  limits.  There  would 
be  a  few  constituencies  left  entirely  English, 
but  the  English  population  would  thus  be 
deprived  of  the  influence  wliich  their  uuujbers 
and  wealth  should  give  them  in  the  Local 
Legislature.  (Hear,  hear.)  Again,  the 
Local  Legislature  will  have  power  to  alter  or 
amend  their  Constitution  from  time  to  time. 
We  to-day  may  frame  a  Constitution — the 
English-speaking  majority  in  this  House  may 
frame  a  Constitution  which  would  give  proper 
protection  to  the  English-speaking  population 
of  Lower  Canada.  But,  by  this  sclieme  it 
will  be  in  the  power  of  the  local  legislatures 
to  change  that,  and  to  modify  it  so  as  to  suit 
it  to  the  wishes  or  prejudices  of  the  French 
majority.  W^e  would  be  powerless,  after  we 
leave  these  halls,  any  longer  to  conserve  our 
rights,  and  the  privileges  which  this  Parlia- 
ment might  give  us  may  be  taken  away  at  the 
very  first  session  of  the  Local  Legislature. 
Theu  look  at  the  powers  which,  under  this 
Constitution,  are  conferred  on  the  Local  Gov- 
ernment. The  first  1  find  is  the  power  of 
direct  taxation.  In  the  case  of  all  govern- 
ments, the  power  of  taxation  is  the  most  im- 
portant power  they  can  possess.  It  is  that 
which  concerns  all  portions  and  all  classes  of 
the  community,  and  which  gives  rise  to  the 
greatest  controversy,  and  the  greatest  amount 
of  difficulty.  It  is  the  most  important  of  all 
legislative  powers,  and  this  power  is  to  be  con- 
ferred on  the  Local  Legislature  of  a  province, 
where  one  nationality  has  four-fitths  of  the 
numbers,  and  the  other  nationality  con- 
tributes one-half  of  the  taxes.  Then  the 
Local  Legislature  is  to  have  the  control 
of  immigration — a  very  important  subject, 
which  deeply  interests  the  English-speak- 
ing population  of  Lower  Canada — but  tiiey 
woulu  have  nu  voice  iu  I'raming  the  measuros 
which  might  be  adopted  for  directing  and 
controlling  that  important  matter.  Then 
the  Local  Legislature  is  to  have  the  control 
ol  education.  And  wliat  subject  can  there 
be  of  greater  importance  '(  And  what  sub- 
ject is  there  wliiih  might  be  a  source  vt' 
greater  strife  between  the  two  nationalities, 
which  by  this  provision  would  be  brought 
into  antagt)tiisin  i*  Even  under  our  preMut 
system,  wi  h  sixiyfive  Upper  Canadian  Kng- 
liMh-Mpuakiug  ii^«mb«rt;  who  wuuid  uaturuliy 


795 


be  expected  to  sympathise  with  the  English- 
speaking   people  of  Lower  Canada,  it  is  a 
crying  griev^ance  with  the  latter  that  they 
cannot  get  such  legislation  on  the  subject  o! 
education     as    they    de>ire.     What,    then, 
would  they  have  to  expect  if  they  went  into 
a  Legislature  where  four-fifths  of  the  repre- 
sentatives were  of  a  different  nationality  and 
a  diflferent  religion,   and  whose    prejudices 
and  interests  were  in  opposition  to  the  claims 
of  the   one-fifth  minority  ?     (Hear,   hear.) 
Then  the   Local  Lesislaturc  is  to  have  con- 
trol of  "  the  establishment,  maintenance  and 
management  of  hospitals,  asylums,  charities, 
and  eleemosynary  institutions."     Now  it  is  a 
positive  fact,  as  I  have  stated  before,  that  the 
English-speaking  population  of  Lower  Can- 
ada, on  account  of  their  wealth  and  expensive 
mode  of  living,  their   extravagant   habits, 
their  desire  for  chiUge  and  progress,  their 
different  ideas   generally  from  the   French- 
Canadians,  consume  more  than  one-half  of 
the  dutiable  goods  that  are  brought  into  this 
country,  and  pay  one-balf  of  the  taxes;  and 
yet  the   money  which   they  would  pay  into 
the  public   chest  would  be  distributed   by  a 
majority  over  whom  they  had  no  control — a 
majority  who  would  not  in  any  manner  sym- 
pathise with  them;  and  their  taxes  would  be 
applied  to  objects  which  they  might  not  deem 
desiracie — which  they  might,  perhaps,  con- 
sider detrimental   to  their    interests.     And 
they  would  be  completely  without  remedy, 
should    this  proposed  Constitution  unfortu- 
nately be  imposed  upon  them.     (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  painful  to  me  to  be  compelled  to  refer 
to  these   matters.     It  is   not  with   pleasure 
that  I  bring  before  the  House  the  antagonism 
which   would   inevitibly  arise  between  the 
two  nationalities,   should   they  be  brou.-ht 
together  into  one  Legislature,  with   such  a 
vast    disproportion  between   their   me;ins  of 
taking  their  own   part      We  are  told,  and 
told  very  truly — I  rejoice  that  it  is  the  fact 
—that  hitherto  the  two  races  in  Lower  Can- 
ada have   lived   in  peace.     But  it  would  be 
impossible  that  they   could  any  longer  live 
in  peace;  it  would  be  impossible  that  with 
such  a  disparity  of  numbers,  and  with  such 
antagonistic  inter-'sts   they  sholild  not  come 
into  conflict.     It  would  be  a  constant  war- 
fare, and  this   new   Constitution,  instead  of 
settling    the    sectional    difficulties    in    this 
coutitiy,  instead   of  bringing  peice  to  this 
country,     instead     of     removing    jealousies 
and    heart-burnings,  would    have   the    very 
opposite    effect.     From   the  fact   that   the 


field  of  conflict  would  be  smaller,  that  the 
arena  would  be  more  circumscribed,  the 
strife  would  be  all  the  fiercer.  You  are  not 
bringing  peace,  but  a  sword.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Mr.  POWEi.L — Does  the  leader  of  the 
Opposition  in  Lower  Canada  assent  to  that  ? 
(Hear,  hear.) 

Mr.  O'HALLORAN— It  is  not  my  pro- 
vince to  inquire   what  any  hon.  gentleman 
assents  to  or    dissents    from.     What  I  have 
to  do  is  to  see  that  the  interests  of  those  who 
sent  me  here  are  not  put  in  jeopardy.    And 
it  will  be  for  the  leader  of  the  Opposition  to 
see  that  he  too,   on   his   part,  faithfully  dis- 
charges   his    du'y  to  those   he   represents. 
But,    sir     the    English-speaking    people    of 
Lower  Canada  are  to  be  amused,  and  their 
attention  is  to  be  diverted  from  a  full  exam- 
ination of  those  serious  matters  which  press 
themselves     upon     our     consideration,    by 
cleverly  drawn  abstractions  and  sophistries, 
such  as  new  nationalities — union  is  strength 
— a  great  empire — and  the   other   plausible 
prettxts   [hat  are   attempted   to  be  imposed 
upon  them.     It  would  be  easy  to  refute  and 
show  how  baseless  are   all  these  s-chemes  of 
g;eatues3  with    which    the    people    of   this 
country   are  sought  to  be  misled.     We  are 
gravely  ask'-l  :   "What    man  would  remain 
poor,  wh(.:i   h.- could  at  once  become  rich  ? 
What  m...      wuuid   remain    weak,  when    he 
could    at    once    become   p-^weriul  ?      Who 
would  be  diminutive,  when  by  merely  taking 
thought  he  could  add  cubits  to  his  stature  ? 
What  people   w.mld  continue  to  be  a  mere 
colony,  when   by  the  stroke  of  a  pen  they 
could  at  once  become  an   empire,  under  a 
new  nationality?"     Sir,  these  sophistries  will 
not  impose  upon  the  people  of  this  country. 
Where  is   the   demonstration    furnished   us 
that  by  this    scheme    you    would    add    one 
dollar    to    the    wealth    of  this    country,    or 
one  human  being  to  its  inhabitants,  or  one 
ifich  to  its   territory  ?     We  do   not  find  it 
afforded  during  the  course  of  this  debate.    I 
have  listened  attentively  to   the   arguments 
in  favor  of  the  scheme,  but  no  attempt  has 
been  made  to  demonstrate  these  things.     It 
has  been  repeatedly  stated  that  we  are  about 
to  consolidate  the  strength  of  thi.s  country, 
in  order  to  resist  invasion  ;   but  I  should  like 
to  know  in    what  manner  such  an    end    is 
proiioted    by  this  measure.      Are    we    not 
already  united  under  one  Government?  Are 
we  not  already   living  under   the  control  of 
the  same  executive  power  ?     Do  we  not  fight 
Uuder  the  same  flag,  and  pay  allegiance  to 


796 


the  same  Sovereign  ?     Is  not  every  man  in 
Nova  Scotia,  New  Brunswick,  Newfoundland, 
and    Prince  Edward  Island  just  as  much 
under  the  control  of  the  head  of  our  Grovern- 
ment  as   the  inhabitants  of  this  province  ? 
It  is  all  sophistry  this  idea  that  we  are  going 
to  increase  the  strength  of  this  country  by 
the   proposed   union   with   the   Lower   Pro- 
vinces.    An   attempt   is    made   to  alarm  us 
by  sensational  rumors  about  invasion,  and  it 
is   stated    that   wo    must   put    forth    every 
possible  strength  to   save    ourselves     from 
being    swallowed    up    by    the    neijjhboring 
republic ;    and    we  are    gravely    to'd    that 
through    the   action    of   a   number  of  self- 
constitutod    delegates   assembled    around  a 
green  table,  and  adopting  certain  resolutions, 
the  whole  of  the  physical  laws  relating   to 
our  couQtry  are  to  be  changed.     Newfound- 
land and  Prince   Edward   Island  are  to  be 
brought    up    into    Lake   Ontario,   and    the 
whole  of  our  territory  is  to  be  compacted, 
consolidated    and    strengthened.     Our    ex- 
tended frontier  is  no  longer  to  be  exposed  to 
attack,  and,  if  attacked,  will  be  much  more 
easily  defended.     Is  not  this  the  most  absurd 
sophistry?     Cai    paper    resolutions  change 
the  laws  of  nature,  or  modify  the   physical 
geography  of  the  country.     Will  not  New- 
foundland be  as  isolated  from  this  province 
after  Confederation  shall  have  been  adopted, 
as  it  is  to-day  ?     I  think,  sir,  it  is  generally 
admitted    that   Canada   is    unequal    to   the 
det'cDoe  of  its  owo   frontier  against  invasion 
from    the    only   quarter   from    which    it  is 
apprehended.     It  is  also  admitted  that  the 
Maritime  Provinces  are  alike  unequal  to  the 
defence    r»f  their    own    fruntier.     By   what 
process  then   will  you    demonstrate  to  me, 
that  by  adding  the   frontier  of  the   Lower 
Provin?es  to  that  of  Canada,  and  by  adding 
the   force    of  those    provinces    to   our  own, 
there  will   not  be  the  same  defencelessness 
as  at  present  ?     Will  there  not  be  the  same 
disproportion  between   the  defensive  power 
and  tue  object  to  be  defended?   (Hear,  hear.) 
Mr.  Speaker,  in  the  first  place  I  perceive 
DO  immediate  necessity  for  those   constitu- 
tional changes.     I   think  that  our   present 
Constitution  is  ample  for   the  wants   of  the 
people  of  this  country,  and  that  all  the  dilli- 
cultiea,  either  real  or  imaginary,  under  which 
we  labor,  might  be  solved  within  the  limits 
of  our  present  Constitution.     I   consider  all 
our  difficulties  to  be  merely  sectional,  arising 
neither  from  differences  of  religion,  of  origin, 
of  language,  or  of  laws.     On  cxumination  it 


will  he  found   that    they   are    merely  fiscal 
difl&culties,  and  that  they  arise  from  tlie  fact 
that  our  General  Government  does  not  con- 
fine itstdf  to  the  true  end  and  object  of  its 
existence.     Do  away  with  your  local  grants, 
and  your  absurd  system  of  compensating  for 
one  improper  expenditure  by  the  creation  of 
another.     Let  there  be   no   expenditure  for 
merely  local  purposes,  or   for  purposes  that 
do  not  properly  come  within  the  functions  of 
the    General     Government.     (Hear,    hear.) 
By    what    rule    of  right,  for    instance,  are 
the    inhabitants     of   Upper    Canada    called 
upon    to   pay   for  the    redemption   of   the 
seigniorial   tenure  of   Lower   Canada ;    and 
what  right  has   Lower   Canada  to  be  called 
upon   to   meet   the    extravagant   municipal 
indebtedness  of    Upper   Canada?       If    our 
difficulties  arise  from  differences  of  language 
and  races,  how   comes   it  that  the   English- 
speaking  people   of  Lower  Canada   have  so 
long  harmonized  and  sympathized  with   the 
extremeUltramontane  party  of  iiower  Canada? 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  think  you  cannot  find  any 
reason  for  it,  except  on  the  supposition  that 
they    remain    united    for    the     purpose     of 
maintaining   their  sectional  power  and    in- 
fluence,  under    a    system    by    which    the 
common   exchequer  is  deemed  a  legitimate 
object   of    public    plunder.       Each    section 
seems  to  have   always   regarded   the  public 
chest  as  fair  game  ;  and  it  is  undeniable  that 
Lower    Canada  has  generally   had   the  best 
of  it.     These  things   caused   dissatisfaction 
in  the  minds  of  people   from  other  secnons 
of  the  country,  and  they  undertake  to  form 
combinations  for  the   purpose  of  obtaining 
from  the  public  chest  similar  undue  advan- 
tages.    The  remedy  for  this  state  of  things 
is  to  deprive  the   Legislature  of  the  power 
to    make   grants    for    local    objects.       Let 
there     be     no     revenue      collected     more 
than     is     absolutely      necessary      for     the 
general     expenses     of     the     country,    and 
let  it  be  distributed  for  those  general  pur- 
poses with  due  economy,  and  we  shall  hear 
nothing  more  of  sectional  dilB'ulties.  (Hear, 
hoar.)      Mr.  Spe.\KER,  in  connection  with 
this    same   idea,    I    find    in    my  own    mind 
another    very  important  consideration    con- 
nected   with    the    administration     of     the 
government  of  our  countrv.      It   has  n  -w,  I 
believe,    ceased  to  be  a  crime  to  "  look   to 
Washingtun."       Not    long    ago,     the     term 
"  looking  to    Washington  "   was  one  of  re- 
proach.     But    that    time    has   passed  away, 
,  and  our  friends  on    the   other  side  of  the 


797 


House  have  not  only  looked  to  Washington, 
but  absolutely  gone  there,  and  imported  the 
worst  features  of  the  republican  system  for  in- 
corporation in  our  new  C:)nstitution.  While 
they  were  doing  this,  I  regret  very  much 
that  they  did  not  import  from  Washin.^ton, 
or  from  some  other  parts  of  the  United  States, 
their  ideas  of  economy  in  the  administration 
of  the  fiscal  affairs  of  the  country.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  regret  they  did  not  import  from  that 
country  a  very  important  principle  prevail- 
ins:  there,  to  the  effect  that  the  Gi-overnment 
of  the  day  shall  impose  as  few  burdens  upoa 
the  people  as  possible.  To-day,  sir,  we  are 
paying  the  man  who  stands  at  that  door  to 
admit  you  to  this  chamber  a  greater  annual 
salary  than  is  paid  to  the  Grovernor  of  the 
State  of  Vermont.  We  are  paying  the  man 
who  stands  in  that  corner  with  his  paste 
brush  to  wrap  up  our  papers,  more  than  the 
iudemoity  allowed  to  a  United  States  sena- 
tor. We  pay  the  Governor  General  a  greater 
allowauce  than  is  received  by  the  President 
of  the  United  States  of  America.  We  are 
the  most  heavily  taxed  people,  and  pay  larger 
salaries  for  the  work  performed,  in  propor- 
tion to  our  resources,  than  any  other  people 
in  the  world. 

Hon.  Attt.  Gen.  MACDOXALD— We 
pay  ourselves  well  too.     (Laughter.) 

Mr.  O'HALLORAN— It  has  been  said, 
and  it  seems  to  be  thought  a  strong  argu- 
ment in  favor  of  this  scheme,  that  we  must 
do  something ;  that  our  affairs  cannot  with 
advantage  go  on  in  the  same  channel  in 
which  they  have  been  doing  ;  and  that  there 
is  a  necessity  for  some  change.  It  is  made 
a  complaint  that  legislation  is  obstructed  by 
party  strife,  and  that  the  country  suffers 
for  th3  want  of  new  laws.  Sir,  if  there 
is  one  vulgar  error  in  political  economy 
more  false  and  unsound  than  another, 
it  is  that  the  prosperity  of  any  country 
depends  on  the  amount  of  its  legislation. 
We  have,  as  a  general  thing,  too  muc'i  legis- 
lation. If  I  may  use  the  term,  we  are  legis- 
lated to  death.  And  when  I  have  seen  bills 
pouring  into  this  House  ly  the  hundred  at 
every  session,  I  have  said  to  myself: — 
"  What,  in  He  wen's  name,  will  become  of 
this  country  if  all  these  bills  should,  by  any 
possibility,  ever  become  law  ?  "  (Laughter.) 
The  idea  seems  to  prevail,  that  in  this  coun- 
try even  the  grass  cannot  grew  unless  its 
growth  is  regulated  by  an  Act  of  Parliament. 
No  cha:ge  in  the  Constitution  of  this  country 
will  remedy  the  difficulties  of  which  you 


complain,  for  they  have  their  source  within 
ourselves.  It  is  honest,  economical  adminis- 
tration you  require,  not  legislation,  or  a 
change  in  our  form  of  Government. 

'"Bout  forms  of  government  let  fools  contest, 
That  which  is  best  administered  is  best." 

You  may  remove  you:  seat  of  government  to 
Ottawa,  and  increase  your  Legislature  from 
130  to  194  members,  but  you  will  fiod  the 
same  difficulties  under  any  system  of  govern- 
ment which  you  may  adopt,  so  long  as  you 
continue  extravagant  sectional  expeuditure. 
Those  difficulties  will  still  meet  you  in  the 
face,  so  long  as  the  legislature  or  legislatures 
of  the  country  are  permitted  to  exercise 
functions  that  do  not  properly  belong  to  a 
general  government ;  so  long  as  you  refuse 
to  compel  localities  to  meet  their  own  local 
expenditure  by  local  means,  you  will  find  the 
same  causes  producing  the  same  effects  in 
Ottawa  as  in  Quebec.  Caelum  non  animam 
mutant  qui  tracts  mare  currunt.  (You  but 
change  your  skies  by  the  proposed  constitu- 
tional changes.)  I  remarked,  at  the  outset, 
that  I  must  deny  to  this  House  the  right  to 
impose  on  this  country  this  or  any  other 
Constitution,  without  first  obtaining  the 
consent  of  the  people.  Who  sent  you  here 
to  frame  a  Constitution  ?  You  were  sent 
here  to  administer  the  Constitution  as  you 
find  it  Throughout  the  length  and  breadth 
of  British  North  America,  there  is  not  one 
other  government  that  has  dared  to  arrogate 
to  itseif  the  right  of  changing  the  Constitu- 
tion of  their  people  without  consulting  them, 
except  ours.  I  am  surprised,  sir,  ti.at  even 
this  strong  Government  of  ours  have  dared 
to  assume  this  power,  when,  sooner  or  later, 
they  must  go  before  the  people  of  the  country. 
(Hear,  hear.)  There  comes  to  my  hand, 
this  evening,  a  r- solution  proposed  by  the 
Honorable  Attorney  General  of  Newfound- 
lani  in  the  Legislature  of  that  colony.  It  is 
instructive  as  shewing  that  there  was  one 
uniform  sentiment,  throughout  all  the  Lower 
Provinces,  in  favor  of  submitting  the  question 
to  the  people  It  was  so  submitted  in  New 
Brunswick — it  met  its  fate.  It  is  now  about 
to  be  submitted  to  the  people  of  Nova  Sco- 
tia. The  Administration  oi  this  province 
have  been  wiser  in  their  generation  than 
those  of  the  Lower  Provinces.  They  did 
aot  dare  to  submit  it  for  the  consideration  of 
the  people — a  course  which,  if  not  exhibiting 
wisdom  on  their  part,  shows,  at  the  least, 
that  skill  and  craft  in  public   matters  for 


798 


which  most  of  tl\em  have  become  famous. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  resolution  I  have  refer- 
red to,  and  which  emboiiies  the  policy  of  the 
Government  of  Newfoundland  on  this  ques- 
tion, is  as  follows  : — 

Resolved, — That  having  had  under  their  most 
seiiousaud  deliberate  consideration  the  proposal 
for  the  formation  of  a  Federal  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Provinces,  upon  the  terras  con- 
tained in  the  report  of  the  Convention  of  dele- 
gates, held  at  Quebec,  on  the  10th  of  October 
last — the  despatch  of  th'^  Right  Honorable  the 
Secretary  of  State  for  the  Colonies,  dated  De- 
cember 3rl,  1864 — the  observations  of  His 
Excellency  the  Governor  in  relation  to  this  sub- 
ject in  his  opening  Speech  of  the  present  session 
— and  the  report  of  the  Newfoundland  delegates — 
this  committee  are  of  opinion,  that  h;iving  regard 
to  the  comparative  novelty  and  very  great  im- 
portance of  this  project,  it  is  desirable  that  before 
a  vote  ot  the  Legislature  is  taken  upon  it,  it 
should  be  submitted  to  the  consideration  of  the 
people  at  large,  particularly  as  the  action  of  the 
other  provinces  does  not  appear  to  require  that 
it  should  be  hastily  disposed  of,  and  as  (the 
present  being  the  last  session  of  this  Assembly) 
no  unreasonable  delay  can  be  occasioned  by  this 
courst' ;  and  they,  therefore,  recommend  that  a 
final  determination  upon  this  important  subject 
be  deferred  to  the  next  meeting  of  the  Legisla- 
ture. 

(Hear,  hear.) 

An  Hon.  MEMBER— That  is  the  report 
of  a  committee. 

Mr.  O'HALLORAN— Yes,  it  is  the 
report  of  a  committee  ;  but  it  was  submitted 
to  the  Legislature  by  the  Hon.  Attorney 
General  as  the  policy  of  the  Government. 
Of  course,  if  the  resolution  is  not  carried  in 
the  Legislature,  then  the  scheme  is  doubly 
defeated.  In  this  little,  petty  province, 
wbose  interests,  as  compared  with  ours,  are 
of  trifling  importance  in  relation  to  tiie 
scheme,  the  Government  considers  that  the 
question  is  one  of  sufficient  moment  to 
demand  that  before  the  slightest  action  is 
taken  up  on  it  by  the  Legislature,  the  people 
should  be  consulted  ;  but  in  this  larire 
province,  with  its  comparatively  large  popu 
lation,  and  with  iwiportant  interests  to  be 
affected,  the  Pcheme  is  to  be  hurried  through 
without  allowing  the  people  to  hav--  a  v.  ice 
in  the  matter,  or  even  to  have  time  for  its 
con'^ideration.  (Hear,  hear.)  They  arc  to 
have  uo  voice  in  determining  what  kind  of 
government  they  and  their  children  are  to 
live  under  lor  years  to  come.  Mr  Spkaker, 
I  know  very  well  'hjt  it  is  a  bold  declaratioti 
for  me  to  make,  that  this  Parliament  has  no 
right  to  deal  with  this  question  j  but,  eir,  1 


make  it  not  hastily  nor  unadvisedly,  because 
I  defy  honorable  gt-ntlemeu  to  find  a  prece- 
dent for  their  proposed  action  in  any  fiee 
country  under  similar  circumstances.  We 
are  not  living  to-day  in  a  time  of  revo- 
lution or  of  great  emergency  j  but,  even 
if  our  circumstances  were  different,  I 
doubt  very  much  if  any  of  the  precedents 
that  have  been  referred  to,  as  having  occur- 
red many  years  ago  and  in  troublous  times, 
could  again  be  practised  or  adopted,  even  in 
England,  from  which  country  we  draw  all 
our  precedents  The  precedents  which  have 
been  invoked  in  approval  of  the  course  that 
has  been  adoptd  by  the  Government  prove 
too  much.  If  they  form  a  justification  for 
the  course  we  are  pursuing,  then  you  might 
prove  by  the  same  means  that  this  House 
had  the  power  to  perpetuate  its  existence 
beyond  tiie  limit  fixed  for  the  lermination 
of  the  present  Parliament,  or  vote  ourselves 
members  for  life.  We  might  ju'^t  as  well 
constitute  ourselves  life  members  of  the 
Federal  legislature  of  the  proposed  Cou- 
tederacy,  as  to  take  the  action  t,b;it  is  contem 
plated.  I  know  that  it  is  represented  as 
very  important  that  the  mca.sure  sh<iuld  be 
carried  into  immediate  operation  ;  but  that  is 
a  matter  of  mere  expediency,  and  lia,s  nothing 
to  do  with  constitutional  principles.  (Hear, 
hear.)  The  Irish  union  has  been  trium- 
phantly referred  to  as  a  precedent  for  this 
measure.  To  my  mind  it  is  a  most  unfor- 
tunate one,  and  little  deserving  uf  our  imi- 
tation. Let  me  show  you  how  this  matter 
has  been  regarde  i  by  one,  whose  authority 
uill  not  be  disputed.  I  read  from  May's 
Comttifutionnl  Iltsfori/  of  Emjlnud,  page  505 
ot  the  2nd  volume.  Speaking  of  the  union  of 
Ireland  with  England,  he  8ay.s : — 

A  great  end  was  compassed  by  means  the 
most  base  and  shameless.  Gkattan,  Lord 
Chari.emont.  Ponso.nbv,  f'LiKKErT,  and  a  few 
patriots,  continued  to  protest  a.MJnst  the  sale  of 
the  liberties  and  free  Constitution  of  Ireland. 
Their  eloiiuence  and  jiuhljc  virtue  coirrniiiid  the 
respect  of  posterity  ;  but  the  wretched  history  of 
their  country  denies  ihem  its  sympathy. 

This,  sir,  i.s  the  judgment  of  the  impartial 
English  historian  upon  the  means  by  which 
tins  great  national  crime  was  consummated, 
and  it  is  the  just  encanium  on  the  noble 
few  whose  patriotic  ofl'orts  tailed  to  prevent 
it.  I  read  it,  in  anticipation,  as  the  future 
history  of  the  wrong  now  about  to  be 
perpetrated  on  the  people  of  this  country; 
and  while  it  implies,  on  the  I'ne  hand,  in  no 
doubtful  terms,  the  well-merited  praiae   of 


799 


the  small  band  who  stand  here  to-night  for 
the  rights  of  the  people,  in  opposition  to  this 
scheme,  it  pronouuces,  on  the  other,  the 
just  condemuation  of  those  who  trample  on 
those  rights,  and  who  forget,  in  the  pride  of 
their  brief  authority,  who  it  was  that  raised 
them  to  the  positions  thej  occupy,  not  that 
they  might  coerce,  but  carry  out  the  will  of 
the  people,  the  only  rightful  source  of  all 
political  power.     (Cheers.) 

Mr.  J.  S.  KOSS— I  will  not  attempt  to 
address  the  House  at  any  great  length  at 
this  late  Lour  of  the  evening,  as  1  thiiik 
it  very  desirable  that  this  debute  should  be 
brought  to  a  close  at  as  early  a  day  as 
possible  ;  and  believing  that  that  is  the 
prevailing  opinion  in  this  House,  I  shall 
endeavor  to  be  as  brief  as  I  cao.  The  hou. 
gentleman  who  has  just  taken  his  seat  has 
referred  to  one  matter  on  which  t  shall  not 
at  present  say  anything,  on  which  I  aiiall 
not  commit  myselt.  I  suppose  that  it  will 
be  very  well  understood  what  I  refer  to, 
without  my  alluding  to  it  more  particularly. 
But  there  was  another  statement  which  he 
made — that  there  was  no  necessity  for  any 
change — on  which  I  shall  dwell  shjrtly,  ani 
endeavor  to  show  that  there  was  a  necessity 
for  a  change.  It  mm^t  be  in  the  recollection 
of  every  hon.  member  in  this  House,  that 
one  year  iigo  affairs  were  in  such  a  state — 
such  difficulties  pres'^nted  themselves,  that 
legislation  was  becoming  almost  impracticable. 
No  better  proof  of  this  could  be  desired 
than  that  the  Government  ol  the  day  found 
themselves  so  surrounded  with  diiiiculties  in 
the  House,  that  they  declared  themselves 
unable  to  carry  on  the  administration  of  the 
affairs  of  the  country  in  a  satisfactoi'y  man- 
ner. Now,  why  should  a  Government 
possessing  so  much  talent  and  ability  as 
that  Government  did,  make  that  declaration, 
if  there  was  no  necessity  for  it  i*  (Hear, 
hear.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  MACDONALD— If  you  had 
voted  with  us,  it  would  have  been  all  right. 
(Hear  and  laughter.) 

Mr.  ROSS — Althou.ih  I  always  enter- 
tained a  very  high  opinion  of  the  honor.;ble 
gentleman  who  was  Premier  of  that  Govern- 
ment, I  differed  from  him  politically.  Then, 
Mr.  Speaker,  there  is  an(jther  matter  to 
which  I  shall  refer,  to  show  that  this  House 
did  acknowledge  that  there  were  cifficulties 
in  the  way.  A  motion  was  made  Dy  the 
honorable  men.ber  for  South  Oxford  for  the 
appointment  of  a  co.-.mittee  on  ooustitutroual 
changes.     That  committee  reported  to  this 


House,  and  I  will  just  read  the  last  para- 
graph of  that  report  in  support  of  what  I 
hav  8  said  : — 

A  strong  feeling  was  found  to  exist  among  the 
members  of  the  committee  in  favor  of  changes  in 
the  direction  of  a  Federative  system,  applied 
eiiher  to  Canada  alone,  or  to  the  whole  British 
North  American  Provinces,  and  such  progress 
has  been  made  as  to  warrant  the  committee  in 
recommending  that  the  subject  be  again  referred 
to  a  committee  at  the  next  session  of  Parliament. 

Now,  this  was  signed  by  twelve  gentlemen, 
and  among  them  I  find  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Chateauguay,  who  then  declared  that 
there  was  a  necessity  for  some  change.  I 
think,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  this  clearly  shows 
that  the  matter  was  not  brought  upon  us  in 
a  hurry,  that  the  scheme  now  before  us  is  a 
subject  which  has  been  looked  forward  to  for 
some  time.:  When  we  refer  to  that  period, 
we  find  that  the  Government  of  the  day 
placed  their  resignations  in  His  Excellency's 
hands,  a  new  Government  was  formed 
which  met  the  House  on  the  3rd  of  May, 
and  on  the  14th  of  June  they  were 
defeated.  At  that  time,  I  believe,  they 
had  obtained  from  His  Excellency  per- 
mission to  dissolve  the  House.  An  effort 
was  made,  however,  to  effect  a  change  in  the 
Administration,  in  order  that  it  might  com- 
mand a  majority  of  this  House,  and  be 
enabled  to  carry  ou  the  business  of  the 
country.  After  some  time,  a  reconstruction 
was  effected,  and  in  the  programme  which 
the  present  Government  adopted,  they  did 
announce  that  they  would  take  up  this  ques- 
tion, and  that  when  they  met  the  House  the 
next  session,  they  would  be  prepared  to  lay 
before  the  House  a  measure  for  the  purpose 
of  removing  existing  difficulties,  by  intro- 
ducing the  Feueral, ^principle  into  Canada, 
coupled  with  such  provision  as  will  permit 
the  Maritime  Provinces  and  the  North-West 
territory  to  be  incorporated  with_.the  ss.me 
system  of  government.  If  there  were 
objections  to  a  change,  why  were  they  not 
made  at  that  time  ?  Did  not  the  House 
commit  itself,  then,  by  receiving  it  without 
any  objection  ?  Hence  I  think  that  the  Gov- 
ernment pursued  a  manly,  straightforward 
course  in  coming  down  and  announcing  what 
their  scheme  was  ;  and  whether  that  scheme 
is  a  good  or  a  bad  one,  they  have  redeemed 
their  pledges ;  they  have  met  this  House 
with  a  scheme  for  the  Confederation  of  the 
British  North  American  Provinces.  (Hear.) 
Whether  this  scheme ,  is  all  that  we  could 
desire  or  not,  is  perhaps  a  matter  ou  irhicJbi 


800 


we  shall  not  be  unanimous.  I  for  one,  ever 
since  I  have  thought  anything  about  poli- 
tics, have  always  looked  forward  to  the  time 
when  such  a  scheme  as  this  might  be  carried 
out.  I  have  been  an  advocate  of  a  legislative 
union.  I  think  that  is  the  correct  principle, 
but  I  am  not  ashamed  to  say  that  I  am  open  to 
conviction,  and  in  dealing  with  a  great 
question  like  this  we  must  not  expect  to 
have  everything  to  meet  our  own  views  ;  we 
must  be  prepared  to  make  concessions,  and 
take  the  best  we  can  get.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  know  the  hesitation  with  which  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  was 
accepted;  that  Washington — the  father  of 
that  great  country — expressed  himself,  as 
well  as  many  other  eminent  persons,  against 
it,  but  accepted  it  as  the  best  that  could  be 
had.  We  find  the  same  expressions  falling 
from  the  gentlemen  of  the  Conference  which 
prepared  ti  is  measure.  They  believe  that  it 
was  the  very  best  that  could  be  had  under 
the  circumstances.  (Hear.)  Now,  if  we 
look  for  one  moment  at  the  work  of  the  Con- 
ference which  met  here  in  Quebec,  whether 
the  scheme  is  what  we  all  could  desire  for  the 
benefit  of  the  country  o)  not,  we  must  admit 
that  the  gentlemen  who  composed  that  Con- 
ference were  men  of  ability,  men  of  mind, 
men  who  have  for  years  been  the  guiding 
spirits  of  public  affairs.  (Hear,  hear.)  And 
the  honorable  gentlemen  from  the  Lower  Pro- 
vinces stand  in  their  respective  provinces 
equally  high  with  those  who  represented  Ca- 
nada, and  I  am  ready  to  believe  that  the  del- 
egates who  composed  this  Conference  ap- 
proached the  question  in  a  spirit  of  the  tru- 
est patriotism,  with  the  honest  endeavor  to 
settle  the  difficulties  of  the  country,  and 
in  the  hope  that  the  scheme  would  be  accept- 
able to  the  people,  and  be  the  means  of  bring- 
ing us  together,  and  consolidating  and  build- 
ing up  in  this  part  of  the  glorious  Em; /ire, 
a  government  that  would  be  lasting  and 
stable.  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  And,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  think  there  has  been  nothing 
that  has  proved  more  acceptable,  or  that  has 
been  better  received  by  the  people  of  the 
country.  (Hear,  hear.)  So  far  as  I  am  con- 
cerned, I  took  the  opportunity  of  brin<:iug 
the  subject  b  fore  my  constituents,  and  when 
I  read  the  first  clause  of  the  resolutions —  '' 
"  The  best  interests  and  present  and  future  ; 
prosperity  of  British  North  America  will  be  I 
promoted  by  a  Federal  union  under  the  j 
Crown  of  Great  Britain,  provided  such  union  ' 
can  be  efiFected  on  principles  just  to  the  sev-  i 
«ral  provinces,"  sir,  it  met  with  their  hearty  ' 


cheers.  (Hear,  Lear.)  Although  I  have  not 
the  honor  to  represent  one  of  the  largest 
constituencies  in  Upper  Canada,  yet  I  re- 
present one  that  I  am  proud  of — the  people 
of  the  good  old  county  of  Dundas  are  sound 
at  the  core  ;  they  do  glory  in  British  con- 
nection, and  nothing  would  induce  them  to 
support  me  or  any  other  representative  who 
would  give  an  uncertain  answer  to  the  ques- 
tion of  whether  we  should  retain  that  connec- 
tion or  not.  (Cheers.)  Sir,  I  believe  that 
the  time  is  upon  us,  when  we  look  at  the  sur- 
rounding difficulties,  for  us  to  make  some 
change,  and  there  is  an  uncertainty  in  the 
minds  of  Canadians  at  present  that  we  ought 
to  get  rid  of,  and  the  sooner  we  approach  the 
subject  the  better.  The  sooner  we  find  out 
that  we  have  a  great  future  to  establish,  that 
we  have  a  country  here  of  which  we  may  feel 
proud  and  rejoice  in,  I  think,  sir,  the  sooner 
that  state  of  things  is  brousrht  about  the  bet- 
ter.  (Cheers.)  Not  only  in  a  Canadian 
point  of  view  is  this  desirable,  but  also  for 
the  sake  of  our  position  alongside  of  our 
neighbors,  with  whom,  I  am  sure,  we  all  de- 
sire to  remain  at  peace,  if  they  will  only  leave 
us  in  quiet  amongst  ourselves.  That  is  all 
that  we  desire,  but  at  the  same  time  it  is 
well  that  these  people  should  understand  that 
we  have  no  desire  whatever,  not  the  most 
remote  intention,  of  connecting  our  destinies 
with  theirs.  (Cheers.)  Now,  Mr.  Speaker, 
it  is  said  that  this  matter  is  new,  and  that  it 
is  forced  upon  us.  I  recollect  reading,  some 
years  ago,  most  able  letters  written  by  Hon. 
Mr.  Howe,  of  Nova  Scotia,  addressed  to 
Lord  John  Russell,  to  show  how  necessary 
this  union  was. 

Dr.  PARKER— I  would  like  to  ask  the 
honorable  gentleman  if  those  letters  were  not 
in  favor  of  a  1  gislative  union  ? 

Mr.  ROSS — I  think  they  were;  but  I  be- 
lieve that  if  he — the  writer  of  them — had 
found  himself  at  Quebec  as  one  of  the  dele- 
gates, he  would  have  done  just  as  they  did. 
Again,  I  find  that  at  another  time  in  our  coun- 
try, in  18-49,  in  the  city  of  Kingston,  one  hun- 
dred and  Ibrty  gentlemen,  chosen  by  the  peo- 
ple— the  ablest  and  foremost  men  of  the  coun- 
try, and  presided  over  by  a  gentleman  who 
has  since  left  this  state  of  action  —  a  gen- 
tleman of  high  n)iiul,  and  universally  respected 
—  I  mean  tl)e  late  Hon.  George  ^IoFFATT — 
that  organization,  the  British  League,  acknow- 
led'^ed  that  to  lay  a  basis  for  the  future  of 
this  country,  a  union  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces  was  essential.  (Cheers.) 
If  I  had  time,  sir,  I  could  show  that  at  several 


801 


periods  in  the  House  of  Commons,  the  union 
of  these  provinces  has  been  spoken  of  as  what 
must  eventually  take  place.  And  since  the 
subject  has  been  under  discussion  in  this 
country,  I  have  read  with  the  greatest  satis- 
faction, in  the  press  of  the  United  States,  arti- 
cles showing  the  advantages  of  this  union ; 
and  in  particular  one  very  able  article  in  the 
Chicago  Times,  in  which  the  vvriter  pays  the 
people  of  this  country  a  high  compliment  for 
the  foresight  with  which  they  are  seeking  to 
protect  their  interests  in  the  future.  (Hear, 
hear.)  There  are  other  authorities  to  which  I 
could  refer  to  show  the  advantages  of  a  union 
of  these  provinces.  Whether  Legislative  or 
Federal  unimportant — i;nion  is  strength,  and 
union  is  desirable  if  we  expect  future  growth 
and  greatness.  I  think  the  arguments  are 
in  favor  of  a  legislative  union.  When  we  ap- 
proach the  subject  fairly,  we  must  acknowledge 
that  it  is  not  reasonable  to  suppose  that  the 
people  of  the  Lower  Provinces  should  prefer 
a  Federal  to  a  Legislative  union.  I  can  quite 
understand  why  they  appreciate  the  advantages 
of  the  local  parliaments  ;  to  ask  them  to  give 
up  their  whole  machinery  of  government,  and 
to  place  themselves  in  the  hands  and  at  the 
tender  mercies  of  a  people  who  would  have 
the  commanding  influences  in  the  legislation 
of  the  country,  and  with  whom  they  are  com- 
paratively little  acquainted,  would  be  asking 
rather  too  much.  There  is  also  some  reason 
to  fear  why  a  legislative  union  would  be  too 
cumbersome.  Many  think  that  too  much  of 
the  time  of  the  Legislature  of  the  country 
would  be  taken  up  with  the  local  business  of 
the  different  sections  of  the  vrovince.  I 
believe,  after  this  machinery  has  been 
well  in  operation,  and  after  we  have  be- 
come better  acquainted  with  each  othei ,  that  we 
shall  find  we  can  work  together,  and  that 
this  has  been  a  movement  in  the  right  direction, 
by  bringing  together  the  people  from  all  parts 
of  the  country.  We  shall  find  that  our 
interests  are  better  understood,  indeed  that 
they  are  one ;  it  will  be  the  more  easy  to  do 
away  with  the  local  parliaments,  and  to  merge 
them  all  into  one.  (Hear,  hear.)  Then,  sir, 
there  will  be  this  advantage  from  the  present 
scheme — we  shall  have  the  machinery  for 
governinsr  the  whole  country  in  existence;  and 
it  will  be  easy  for  those  who  desire  it — if  in 
the  wisdom  of  the  people  who  will  be  living 
under  the  institutions  of  the  country  at  that 
time,  it  is  thought  desirable — the  necessary 
machinery  will  be  in  existence  for  consolidation, 
and  the  change  will  not  be  of  that  radical  nature 
that  it  would  be  at  the  present  moment.  Take 
another  view  of  the  case,  which  I  believe  will 

102 


he  borne  out  by  the  facts ;  if  we  are  united — 
if  we  shew  to  the  world  at  large  that  we  have 
resolved  upon  a  more  enlarged  sphere  of  exist- 
ence for  the  future — the  population  of  this 
country  will  increase  to  such  an  extent,  that 
there  will  be  work  enough  for  the  local  gov- 
ernments as  well  as  for  the  General  Govern- 
ment. I  think,  also,  that  the  system  will  have 
the  effect  of  inducing,  on  the  part  of  the  local 
administrations,  a  spirit  of  emulation  in  the 
w:iy  of  conducting  their  respective  govern- 
ments as  cheaply  and  as  economically  as  pos- 
sible. I  have  no  doubt,  too,  that  when  the 
local  parliiunents  are  once  established,  the 
people  will  see  the  advantage  of  material 
changes  in  the  municipal  institutions  of  the 
country  ;  those  institutions  being  to  a  greater 
degree  subordinated  to;  the  local  govern- 
ments. At  all  events,  these  are  all  matters 
for  future  consideration,  and  possibly  for 
future  action.  (Hear,  hear.)  1  shall  now, 
Mr.  Speaker,  refer  briefly  to  the  question  of 
Confederation  in  a  commercial  point  of  view. 
It  is  stated  that  in  this  respect  no  benefit 
will  accrue  to  the  country — that  there  will  be 
no  increar-e  of  trade  between  the  provinces. 
But  I  ask  this  House  to  look  at  the  matter  in 
this  light — and  I  am  sorry  to  say  that  we 
have  good  reason  for  so  viewing  it — there 
can  be  no  doubt  of  the  fact.  The  United 
States  have  given  notice  of  the  abrogation  of 
the  Reciprocity  treaty,  and  there  is  too  much 
cause  for  the  apprehension  that  the  bonding 
system  will  also  be  done  away  with.  Well,  if 
we  are  cut  off"  from  all  these  facilities  and  ad- 
vantages, what  is  our  position  ?  We  are  cut 
off  from  the  ocean  for  six  months  of  the  year, 
and  in  this  respect  our  position  of  dependency 
on  a  foreign  power  is  a  most  humiliating  one. 
(Hear,  hear.)  The  construction  ol'  the  In- 
tercolonial Railway  has  been  insisted  upon  as 
a  commercial  necessity,  and  although  it  may 
be  an  expensive  work,  I  think  the  time  has 
come  when  it  must  be  built.  I  may  briefly 
state  my  own  position  in  regard  to  that  un- 
dertaking. When  the  appropriation  w:'S 
brought  up  for  the  Intercolonial  Railway  sur- 
vey, so  strongly  was  I  opposed  to  that  scheme 
at  the  time  that  I  voted  against  it.  But,  as 
I  have  already  stated,  I  now  see  the  necessity 
for  it.  I  believe  the  time  has  come  when  this 
railway  should  be  constructed.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  hope  it  will  be  constructed  in  a  proper  and 
economical  manner,  and,  when  it  is  built,  I 
believe  that  in  a  commercial  point,  our  posi- 
tion will  be  greatly  improved.  (Hear,  hear.) 
It  is  impossible  for  any  honorable  gentleman 
to  shew  that  by  means  of  that  railway  no 
increase  of  trade  will  spring  up  between  the 


802 


different  provinces.  Western  Canada  is  de- 
cide liy  an  agricultural  country  ;  it  has  a  large 
surplus  of  grain,  and  it  must  find  an  cutlet 
for  it.  Shutout  from  the  United  States,  at  d 
deprived  of  winter  coininuuicalion,  where  are 
we  to  go?  To  store  and  house  it  throughout 
the  winter  months  would  be  a  great  cause  of 
loss.  It  is  said  that  the  export  of  erain  during 
the  winter  is  not  profitable.  But  do  not  the 
United  States  ship  continuously  large  quan- 
tities of  flour  and  product*  to  E  gi  and  aui  to 
other  parts  of  the  world  iu  the  winter  season  ? 
And  what  should  hinder  us  from  pursuing 
the  same  course  if  we  have  the  Intercolonial 
Railway?  (Hear.)  Hon.  genilemen  may 
attempt  to  argue  tbatsach  is  nut  the  case,  and 
endeavor  to  conceal  the  faci;;  but  I  firmly 
believe  it  to  be  the  Dulicy  of  the  Uiiited  States 
to  introduce  coercive  measures,  wiih  the  view 
of  making  usfeel  that  our  commercial  interests 
are  identified  with  them,  and  I  believe  they 
will  continue  that  course  of  policy  towards 
us,  not  perhaps  to  the  extent  of  immediate 
invasion  and  attempted  subjugation,  but  I 
fear  that  their  policy  will  be  one  of  a  re- 
strictive kind,  so  as  to  make  us  feel  as  much 
as  they  can  our  awkward  position  of  depend- 
ence. Such,  I  believe,  is  their  policy.  They 
do  not  intend  immediate  invasion,  but  in- 
stead of  that,  they  will,  so  to  speak,  put  on 
the  screws,  in  order,  if  possible,  to  make  us 
feel  that  our  interest  is  wit.i  them  and  not 
separate  from  them.  y^Hear,  hear.)  I  can 
very  well  see  and  very  well  understand  the 
meaning  of  this  desire  to  annex  Canada,  al- 
though many  have  maintained  that  such  is 
not  their  wish.  Going  back  to  the  early  his- 
tory of  the  United  States,  I  find  that  even  in 
the  articles  of  Federation  of  the  United 
States,  it  is  provided  by  the  11th  artich.' 
that  Canada,  acceding,  shall  be  entitled  to 
participate  in  all  the  rights  and  privileges  of 
the  union,  whilst  they  refused  to  allow  any 
other  country  to  come  in  unless  with  the  con- 
sent of  nine  states.  The  war  of  1812,  too, 
evinced  a  strong  disposilioa  on  the  part  of 
our  neighbors  to  attach  Canaja.  And  I  be- 
lieve that  ti.e  statesmen  of  the  United  States, 
in  our  own  day,  are  animated  by  the  same 
far-set  ing  policy  iu  regard  to  this  country, 
and  that  they  are  now  applying  a  little  gentle 
pressure  to  make  us  feel  liiat  (mr  interest  is 
uo  longer  to  remain  isolated  irom  them,  but 
to  connect  oui  destiny  with  theirs.  Not  long 
Bince  I  listened  to  a  certain  lecture  in  this 
city,  in  which  it  appeared  to  me  that  iiidiiee- 
lueuts  were  purposely  and  designedly  held 
out  for  U8  to  couneot  our  destiuiei*  with  those 


of  the  people  of  the  neighboring  States.  It 
was  said  that  the  great  cause  ot  difficulty  in 
the  United  States  was  now  removed,  and  that 
there  was  no  obstacle  now  in  the  way  of  their 
material  and  social  progress.  Well,  sir,  I  ac- 
knowledge that  they  are  a  great  people,  and 
that  their  advancement  has  been  great ;  but  I 
fail  to  perceive  that,  if  true  to  ourselves,  we 
have  not  the  same  advantages.  {Hear,  hear.) 
At  all  events,  if  our  advantages  are  not  so 
great,  they  are  sufficient  for  all  our  purposes, 
and  we  ought  to  be  satisfied.  There  is  one 
other  consideration  to  which  I  desire  to  al- 
lude. When  we  look  at  the  people  who  in- 
habit these  provinces,  and  consider  from 
whence  they  come  and  what  are  their  charac- 
teristics, that  they  are  a  progressive,  enter- 
prising and  go-a-head  people,  is  it  reasonable 
to  suppose  that  we  are  always  going  to  re- 
main in  this  state  of  uncertainty  ?  Is  it 
reasonable  to  suppose  that  we  are  always  to 
be  divided  into  different  provinces,  with  an 
imaginary  line  ?  Have  we  no  desire  or  wish 
to  expand  and  grow  ?  And,  I  ask,  is  it  pos- 
sible that  we  can  hope  to  attain  national 
greatness  in  a  separate  state  of  existence  ?  I 
think  that  the  interests  of  the  several  pro- 
vinces should  be  consolidated.  There  is  no 
disputing  the  resources  of  the  country,  so  far 
as  territory  is  concerned.  Stretching  from 
the  Atlantic  to  the  Pacific,  it  is  ample  for  the 
support  and  sustenance  of  a  great  people.  I 
have  even  heard  it  said,  by  persons  who  arc 
good  authority  on  the  subject,  that  they 
believe  the  child  is  now  born  who  will  see 
British  North  America  inhabited  by  a  popu- 
lation of  60,000,0U0.  This  may  be  going  too 
far,  but  I  think  there  can  be  no  doubt  a 
large  increase  to  our  numbers  will  take  place 
when  we  shall  have  given  effect  to  the  scheme 
now  in  contemplation.  (Hear,  and  cheers.) 
The  honorable  member  for  Hochelaga  (lion. 
Mr.  DoKloN)  stated  in  tho  course  of  his  re- 
marks that  it  would  be  a  dark  day  for  Ca 
nada  sliould  these  resolutions  be  adopted. 
iMr.  Speaker,  thit  may  be  that  honorable 
gentleman's  opinion;  but  I  must  say  that  I 
differ  from  him  entirely.  On  tho  contrary, 
I  believe  it  will  be  a  dark  day  for  the  whole 
country  if  we  cannot  agree  upon  some  plan 
for  securing  our  speedy  union.  (^Checr.>.) 
The  honorable  gentleman  also  stated  that  the 
scheme  was  far  too  conservative  iu  it*;  char- 
iicter.  Well,  I  can  understand  why  the  hon- 
orable gentleman  should  find  fault  with  it  on 
that  account,  but  1  Confess  that  that  does 
not  trouble  me  iu  the  slightest  degree. 
(Cheers.)     He  declares  that  it  will  destroy 


803 


the  great  Liberal  party.  I  should  be  sorry 
to  see  such  a  cabimity.  I  have  always  pro- 
fessed to  be  a  liberal — a  moderate  ui;m  in 
politics.  (Hear,  hear.)  While  I  would  be 
sorry  to  see  any  great  pirty  destroyed  by  this 
scheme,  I  would  particularly  regret  to  wit- 
ness the  destruction  of  the  great  Liberal 
party.  (Heir,  hear.)  I  believe,  however, 
that  that  party  will  not  be  destroyed  in  any 
such  manner.  After  this  great  scheme  is 
perfected,  we  will  have  parties  the  same  as 
before.  There  may  be  some  changes  as  re- 
gards individuals,  but  I  trust  that  at  all 
events  there  will  still  be  a  great  Liberal 
party.  (Cheers  and  laughter.)  Party  is 
necessary  for  the  good  government  of  the 
country  ;  but  I  trust  that  party  feeling  will 
not  be  manifested  for  the  sake  of  creating 
divisions  and  discords,  but  that  all  parties 
will  unite  to  build  up  a  power  here  which 
will  be  felt  and  respected  throughout  the 
world.  (Hear,  hear,  and  cheers.)  The  hon- 
orable member  for  Brorae  (Mr.  Dunkin) 
made  some  remarks  which  it  struck  me  were 
very  singular  in  their  character,  but  which 
are  a  fair  instance  of  the  manner  he  adopts 
to  illustrate  and  substantiate  his  views.  He 
quoted  from  English  statesmen  and  English 
publications  all  that  could  possibly  be  cited 
to  throw  doubt  upon  the  scheme  ;  but  the 
moment  English  opinion  was  invoked  in  its 
favor,  he  turned  round  and  declared  that 
English  views  on  Canadian  affairs  were  en- 
tirely unreliable.  (Hear,  hear,  and  biughter.) 
As,  however,  that  honorable  gentleman  is 
not  present,  1  shall  not  refer  further  to  his 
statements.  The  honorable  member  for  Corn- 
wall (Hon.  J.  S.  Macdonald),  for  whom  I 
have  always  entertained  the  highest  respect, 
said  that  the  cry  of  annexation  had  been 
raised  in  order  to  push  this  scheme  through. 
Weil,  sir,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  the  honorable 
member  for  Hochelaga  (Hon.  Mr.  DoRlONj 
said  that  this  was  the  very  measure  to  bring- 
about  annexation.  (Laughter.) 

Hon.  J.  S.  xMACDONALD— The  Pre- 
mier stated  that  we  were  being  driven  towards 
annexation,  and  that  this  scheme  would  stop 
it. 

Mr.  ROSS — I  think  I  have  detained  the 
House  too  long  already  ;  and  if  opportunity 
presents  itself  I  will  claim  the  indulgence  of 
the  House  while  I  refer  to  o^ie  or  two  other 
points  hereafter.  (Cries  of  "Goonl")  As  I 
said  before,  I  believe  the  gentlemen  who  met 
in  Quebec  approached  the  matter  in  a  spirit 
and  wi  th  a  desire  to  adopt  a  Constitution  which 
would  be  for  the  good  of  the  whole  country. 


legislatures 
measure  giving  effect 


And  although  I  do  not  entirely  concur  in  the 
resolutions-^— although  there  are  some  things 
about  them  which  I  would  desire  to  see 
changed,  I  shall  give  them  my  support  as  a 
whole.  Take  the  Constitution  of  the  Upper 
House  for  instance — T  would  prefer  rather  to 
see  the  present  system  retained  ;  but  as  the 
delegates  thought  fit  to  change  it,  I  would  not 
fc'.'l  justified  in  voting  against  the  whole  scheme 
on  account  of  my  objection  to  one  or  two 
items  of.  detail.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  must 
expect  to  give  up  to  a  certain  extent  our 
opinio'^s  in  order  to  the  attainment  of  greater 
benefits  than  we  at  present  enjoy,  I,  at  any 
rate,  feel  it  my  duty  to  act  in  this  manner, 
and  I  feel  also  that  the  honorable  gentlemen 
will  deserve  the  best  thanks  of  the  country 
if  the  scheme  which  they  have  brought 
down  shall  be  carried  into  effect.  -I  do 
hope  that  whatever  may  take  place  —  that 
whatever  checks  this  scheme  may  meet  with 
— it  will  eventually  be  successful,  and  that 
Addresses  will  be  passed  by  the  respective 
asking  Her  Majesty  to  pass  a 
to  this  scheme.  When 
this  Constitution  shall  have  been  perfected 
and  ratified — when  there  shall  no  longer  be 
any  doubts  bout  its  containing  the  principles 
upon  which  the  government  of  the  country  is 
founded — every  true-hearted  and  loyal  Cana- 
dian will  have  cause  to  rejoice  that  his  lot  has 
been  cat^t  in  such  a  highly  -  favored  land, 
i^Cheers.) 

Mr.  EOWMAN  —  As  the  discussion  on 
this  great  question  appears  to  be  rapidly 
drawing  to  a  close,  I  desire  to  offer  a  few  re- 
marks upon  the  scheme  of  Confederation  be- 
fore voting  for  it.  The  question  of  constitu- 
tional r'-Porm  is  not  a  new  one  in  Canada,  It 
is  a  question  which  has  occupied  the  atten- 
tion of  the  statesmen,  the  press  and  the  peo- 
ple of  this  country  for  a  number  of  years ; 
ind  so  urgent  have  been  the  demmds  for  re- 
form on  the  part  of  the  people  of  Upper  Can- 
ada, that  it  has  been  found  impossible  to  form 
a  Grovernment  under  our  present  system,  for 
several  years  past,  which  could  command  a 
mnjority  in  the  House  sufficiently  large  to 
carry  on  the  business  of  the  country  with 
success.  The  people  of  Western  Canada  have, 
lor  a  number  of  years,  agitated  strongly  for 
increased  representation  in  Parliament,  the 
justice  of  which  few  will  pretend  to  deny. 
Owing  to  the  disparity  in  the  population  of 
the  two  sections  of  the  province,  and  the 
manifest  injustice  which  is  done  to  Upper 
C.m.  da,  i  ;;m  satisfied  ihat  some  change 
must  be  made  soon,  with  a  view  of  estaijlieh- 


804. 


ing  a  more  satisfactory  system  of  govern- 
ment. (Hear,  hear.)  The  people  are  so 
thoroughly  in  earnest  on  this  question,  that  I 
am  persuaded  they  are  prepared  to  give  a  fair 
trial  to  any  scheme  which  offers  a  reasonable 
prospect  of  inaugurating  a  better  and  more 
satisfttctory  state  of  affairs.  ( Hear,  hear.) 
There  are,  in  my  opinion,  two  methods  by 
■which  this  may  be  done.  The  first  is  a  le- 
gislative union  between  Upper  and  Lower 
Canada,  bused  upon  representation  by. popu- 
lation ;  the  second  is  by  a  Federal  uuiou.eithcr 
between  the  two  Canadas  or  between  all  the 
British  North  American  Provinces.  Unless 
one  or  other  of  these  two  remedies  is  speedily 
applied,  there  is  great  danger  that  an  entire 
separation  of  the  two  provinces  may  ultimate- 
ly take  place,  which,  in  my  opinion,  would 
prove  fatal  to  our  existence  as  a  British 
colony.  •  (flear,  hear.)  Our  proximity  to 
the  United  States  makes  it  necessary  that 
the  union  should  be  maintained  at  almost  any 
cost.  In  order  to  effect  a  change  in  our  Con- 
stitution, it  is  highly  desirable  to  obtain  the 
consent  of  a  majority  of  the  representatives  of 
both  sections  of  the  province  ;  for,  although  a 
scheme  might  be  adopted  by  the  majority  of 
one  section,  aided  by  the  minority  of  the 
other  section,  it  would  not 
satisfaction  as  could  be  desire 
mauds  made  by  the  people  of  Upper  Canada 
for  representation  by  population  under  the 
existing  union,  have  hitherto  been  resisted 
by  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  with  a  degree 
of  determination  that  has  convinced  even  the 
most  sanguine  advocates  of  that  measure 
that    it    is  impracticable,  at  least    ibr  some 


give  such  general 
d.      The   de- 


time    to    come. 


Admitting, 


then,  that  re- 


presentation by  population  under  the  exist- 
ing union  cannot  be  obtained,  I  think  it  is  our 
duty  to  endeavor  to  find  some  other  solution 
of  our  sectional  difficulties.  In  luy  opinion 
the  formation  of  a  system  of  govern  luont  based 
upon  the  Federal  principle,  with  a  Central 
Parliament  which  shall  have  the  control  of 
matters  common  to  all  the  provinces,  and  a 
Local  Legislature  for  each  province  to  man- 
agu  local  affairs,  is  the  only  system  which  will 
prove  satisfactory  to  the  people  of  these  pro- 
vinces. Such  is  the  scheme  now  under  dis- 
cussion by.  this  House.  It  is  said  by  some 
of  the  opponents  of  the  present  schonu;  that 
tliei-e  is  no  necessity  for  a  change,  that  the 
people  of  Upper  Canada  have  ahandoned 
their  agitation  for  constitutional  reform,  and 
that  they  are  perfectly  content  to  go  on  as  they 
are.  I  can  only  say  to  thosf  honorable  gen- 
tlemen that  they  are  entirely  mistaken.     The 


desire  for  a  change  is  as  strong  now  as  ever, 
and  the  people  of  Western  Canada  will  never 
be  satisfied  until  their  just  demands  are  con- 
ceded in  some  shape  or  other.  (Hear,  hear.) 
We  ure  not  the  only  people  who  have  found  it 
necessary  to  alter  their  Constitution.  There 
is  hardly  a  nation  in  the  civilized  world  which 
has  not,  from  time  to  time,  found  it  itself 
compelled  to  change  its  form  of  government 
in  order  to  keep  pace  with  the  ordinary  pro- 
gress of  events;  and  we  generally  find  that 
those  great  political  changes  which  re.sult  in 
the  consolidation  or  disruption  of  empires, 
are  brought  about  by  violent  civil  commo- 
tions, involving  the  sacrifice  of  thousands  of 
valuable  lives  and  the  expenditure  ol  millions 
of  money.  Of  this  fact  we  have  a  melancholy 
example  in  the  present  condition  of  the  United 
States.  The  Constitution  of  that  country 
was  laid  down  by  some  of  the  wisest  and 
ablest  statesmen,  yet  iu  less  than  a  cen- 
tury after  its  formation,  the  people  who 
have  hitherto  looked  upon  it  as  .  being 
the  most  perfect  Constitution  in  the  world, 
find  themselves  in  the  midst  of  a  most  dis- 
astrous war,  trying  to  remove  a  constitu- 
tional difiiculty  which  has  given  them  a  vast 
deal  of  trouble.  Now,  if  we  shall  succeed  in 
laying  down  a  permanent  basis  for  the  con- 
solidation of  these  provinces  —  if  we  shall 
succeed  iu  forming  a  union  which  will  result 
in  the  perpetuation  of  British  institutions  on 
this  continent,  and  thus  check  the  absorbing 
influence  of  the  neighboring  republic  —  we 
shall  confer  a  great  boon  upon  posterity,  and 
prevent  :iiUch  bitter  strife  among  ourselves. 
(Hear,  hear.)  While  deliberating  upon  this 
scheme,  we  should  divest  our  minds  as  much 
as  possible  of  old  political  associations,  in 
order  tliat  we  may  give  it  that  calm  and  de- 
liberate consideration  which  its  great  impor- 
tance demands.  When  we  consider  the  sec- 
tional difficulties  to  be  adjusted,  the  conflict- 
ing interests  which  are  to  be  reconciled,  and 
the  prejudices  which  are  to  be  overcome,  it  is 
evident,  that  we  must  consider  this  scheme  in 
the  spirit  of  compromise.  3Iutual  conces- 
sions must  be  made,  so  as  to  respect  the  rights 
and  feelings  of  all,  so  far  as  it  can  bo  done 
without  doing  an  injustice  to  any.  In  refer- 
ence to  the  scheme  now  before  the  House, 
allow  me  to  say  that  although  there  are  some 
of  its  details  to  which  1  am  opposed,  yet, 
taking  it  as  a  wiiole,  I  believe  it  is  the  best 
that  can  be  obtained  under  our  peculiar  cir- 
eunL-^Lanoes,  and  theretbic  1  feel  it  to  be  my 
duty  to  siipport  it.  That  part  of  the  scheme 
which  provides  lor  a   nominated  Legislative 


805 


Council  I  believe  to  be  contrary  to  tbe  wisbes 
of  a  majority  of  the  people  of  Western  Ca- 
nada, and  particularly  of  my  own  constitu- 
ents. I  think  it  will  be  admitted  that  the 
elective  system  has  given  us  a  class  of  repre- 
sentatives in  that  body  which  would  do 
honor  to  any  country  in  the  world,  and  I 
should  prefer  to  see  that  system  continued. 
But  while  I  would  be  prepared  to  vote  for  an 
amendment  which  would  have  for  its  object 
the  perpetuation  of  the  present  system,  pro- 
vided it  could  be  done  without  interfering 
with  the  success  of  Confederation,  yet  1  do 
not  believe  that  my  constituents  are  prepared 
to  reject  the  whole  scheme,  simply  because 
there  are  a  few  features  in  it  which  are  not 
exactly  in  accordance  with  their  views.  And 
I  can  assure  you,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  I  have 
no  desire  to  do  so.  The  opponents  of  the 
scheme  appeal  to  the  French  population, 
telling  them  that  their  nationality  is  in  danger, 
that  they  will  be  entirely  absorbed  in  the 
Central  Legislature,  and  that  their  rights  and 
liberties  will  be  interfered  with.  Then  the 
same  parties  tell  the  English  of  Lower  Can- 
ada that  their  nationality  and  their  schools 
will  be  entirely  at  the  mercy  of  the  French  in 
the  Local  Legislature.  And,  with  a  view  of 
obtaining  the  defeat  of  the  scheme  in  the 
west,  they  appeal  to  the  pockets  of  the  people 
of  Upper  Canada,  asserting  that  they  will 
have  to  bear  the  greater  proportion  of  the 
taxation  under  the  new  system.  Now,  I 
think  it  has  been  clearly  shown  that  the 
Maritime  Provinces  will  contribute  their  full 
share  towards  the  public  revenue — that  they 
will  pay  as  much  per  head  as  Upper  Canada, 
and  much  more  than  Lower  Canada,  so  that 
the  financial  argument  against  Confederation 
cannot  be  substantiated.  Those  honorable 
gentlemen  who  are  trying  to  defeat  the  scheme 
by  appealing  to  the  pnjudices  and  sectional 
animosities  of  the  people  of  Lower  Canada, 
should  bear  in  mind  that  they  are  pursuing  a 
course  which  is  calculated  to  mar  the  har- 
monious working  of  any  system  of  govern- 
ment, and  that  if  they  should  succeed  in  de- 
feating the  scheme,  it  would  go  very  far  to 
convince  the  people  of  Upper  Canada  that 
Lower  Canada  is  determined  not  to  consent 
to  any  measure  of  justice  to  Upper  Canada. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  also  asserted  that  this 
scheme  will  bring  about  a  separation  from  the 
Mother  Country.  Now,  I  believe  that  the 
advocates  of  union  are  as  desirous  to  perpe- 
tuate our  connection  with  Great  Britain  as 
its  opponents,  and  that  it  is  desirable  to  main- 
tain that  connection  as  long  as  possible.     But 


assuming  that  we  are  laying  the  foundation 
of  a  British  North  American  Empire,  which  is 
destined  to  become  independent  of  the  Mother 
Country,  after  our  resources  have  become 
sufficiently  developed,  and  our  vast  territory 
has  been  filled  up  with  an  industrious,  intel- 
ligent and  thrifty  population,  I  do  not  think 
such  an  anticipation  should  induce  us  to  vote 
against  it.  Another  objection  which  is  raised 
against  this  scheme  is  the  supposition  that 
the  Maritime  Provinces  will  oppose  the  open- 
ing up  of  the  North- West  territory,  which  is 
an  unwarrantable  assumption  on  the  part  of 
the  opponents  of  Confederation ;  for  I  think 
it  will  be  found  that  even  the  people  of  those 
provinces  will  see  that  it  is  for  their  interest 
to  have  that  portion  of  our  dominions  opened 
up  for  settlement.  Such  a  course  would  extend 
their  field  for  tra'le  and  commerce,  in  which 
the  Maritime  Provinces  are  extensively  en- 
gaged, so  that  the  advantages  would  be  of  a 
mutual  character.  A  great  deal  has  been 
said  about  submitting  the  scheme  to  the 
people  before  it  is  finally  adopted,  and  I  must 
say  that  I  could  never  make  up  my  mind  to 
vote  for  it  without  first  having  an  expression 
of  popular  opinion  upon  it  in  some  way  or 
other,  unless  I  were  perfectly  satisfied  that  a 
large  majority  of  my  constituents  are  in  favor 
of  it.  I  took  the  precaution  to  hold  a  number 
of  public  meetings  in  the  constituency  which 
I  represent,  in  order  to  obtain  the  views  of 
the  people  upon  it,  and,  in  almost  every  in- 
stance, a  large  majority  present  at  those  meet- 
ings, not  only  expressed  themselves  in  favor  of 
the  general  features  of  the  scheme,  but  also 
expressed  a  desire  that  it  should  be  dealt  with 
and  adopted  by  this  Parliament  without  first 
holding  a  general  election.  I  shall  take  much 
pleasure  in  voting  for  the  scheme  now  before 
the  House,  believing  that  by  so  doing  I  shall 
best  discharge  my  duty  to  my  constituents 
and  to  the  country  at  large.     (Cheers.) 

Mr.  Walsh  said — it  was  my  intention, 
during  the  earlier  stages  of  this  debate,  to 
have  asked  the  House  to  bear  with  me  while 
I  made  ^ome  lengthened  remarks  on  the  im- 
portant subject  embraced  in  the  resolutions 
now  in  your  hands.  It  was  my  intention 
to  review  the  circumstances  which  made  it 
necessary  that  the  scheme  now  submitted 
should  be  placed  before  the  inhabitants  of 
British  North  America — to  trace  lully  the 
course  of  the  sectional  agitation  with  re- 
ference to  the  difficulties  between  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada — and  to  show  how  it  had 
gradually  grown  in  importance,  until  the 
time  had  arrived  when   we  had   to  accept 


806 


one  of  two  alternatives — a  dissolution  of  the 
existing  union  between  Upper  and  Lower 
(Janada,  or  some  larf^er  scheme,  such  as  that 
now  contemplated  by  the  people  of  these 
provinces.  I  should  also  have  stated  at 
some  length  my  reasons,  if  we  had  to  decide 
between  these  alternatives  for  opposing  the 
former.  I  believe — and  I  think  hon.  gen- 
tlemen almo  t  unanimously  in  this  House 
agree  with  me — that  tlie  union  existing  be- 
tween these  provinces  at  the  present  tin?e 
has,  in  all  its  important  bearings,  more  than 
realized  the  most  sanguine  anticipations  of 
those  who  were  concerned  ia  bringing  it  about 
We  have  seen,  since  the  union,  an  increase 
in  the  population,  revenue  and  resources  of 
these  provinces  seldom  witnessed  in  the 
history  of  any  country.  We  have  seen  two 
peoples  entirely  dissimilar  in  race,  language 
and  institutions — having  nothing  in  common 
but  their  joint  allegianco  to  the  same  Crown 
— we  have  seen  those  two  peoples  rapidly  be- 
coming one  people — one  in  name,  one  in 
object,  one  in  Reeling.  And  I  believe  that 
in  every  respect  the  union  under  which  we 
now  live  has  been  a  ost  happy  in  its  results. 
If  I  had  gone,  therefore,  into  the  subject,  as 
I  originally  intended,  I  should  have  stated 
fully  my  views  upon  it  in  all  its  bearings. 
And  I  should  have  stated,  as  I  now  state, 
that  if  I  had  had  to  give  ir;y  vote  whether 
the  connection  between  these  two  provinces 
should  remain,  or  whether  it  should  be  dis- 
solved, and  we  should  go  back  to  the  state 
of  separate  existence  in  which  we  were  be- 
fore the  union,  I  should  have  been  found 
for  one  most  hostile  to  a  dissolution  of  that 
union.  (Hear,  hear.)  But  circumstances, 
over  some  of  which  this  House  has  not  con- 
trol, while  others  are  within  our  control, 
have  led  to  a  probable  termination  of  this 
debate  at  an  earlier  period  than  I  had  an- 
ticipated, and  I  will  not  trespass  on  the 
patien(;e  of  the  Honse,  at  this  late  hour,  by 
detaining  honorable  members  with  any 
lengthened  remarks.  In  the  few  obser- 
vations I  shall  oifer,  I  will  confine  myself 
to  a  reference  to  some  of  the  leading 
features  of  the  scheme  now  before  us  I 
shall  not,  as  many  honorable  gentlemen 
have  done,  go  into  lengthy  quotations  of 
other  men's  ojiinions,  or  comment  on  the 
effect  of  different  systems  of  government  in 
other  count'ies.  I  will  confine  myself  to 
what  I  consider,  from  the  best  means  of  in- 
formaliou  I  can  obtain,  the  probable  eilect 
and  bearing  of  this  proposed  scheme  upon 
ourselves.       (Hear,  hear.)      I   agree    with 


many  honorable  gentlemen  who  have  pre- 
ceded me,  when  1  say  that  since  I  first  gave 
attention  to  public  matters,  I  have  looked 
forward  to  the  time  when  a  more  intimate 
connection  between  these  British  American 
Provinces  would  not  only  be  desirable,  but 
would  become  absolutely  necessary.  I  look 
upon  it  {IS  desirable  in  a  military  point  of 
view,  and  in  a  comm  .roial  point  of  view.  It 
must  be  evident  to  any  honorable  gentleman 
who  has  occupied  a  seat  in  this  House — even 
for  the  short  period  that  I  have  had  the 
honor  of  a  seat  here — that  the,  opinion  of 
the  House  of  late  years  has  very  materially 
changed  with  reference  to  the  defences  of 
the  country.  I  am  satisfied  that  we  have, 
irrespective  of  party,  become  more  alive  to 
our  duty  in  that  respect;  and  that  the  people 
of  this  country,  acting  through  those  who 
sit  here  as  their  representatives,  are  prejiared 
to  take  upon  themselves  their  just  shartj  of 
responsibiliiy  for  the  defence  of  these  pro- 
vinces. (Hear,  hear.)  And  I  look  upon 
this  schoaij  of  union  as  a  most  in;portant 
step  in  that  view;  because  while  we  rily,  as 
we  do  rely  to  a  great  extent,  on  the  assist- 
ance of  the  home  Government  for  the  de- 
fence of  this  country,  it  must  be  evident  to  ail 
of  us  that  these  provinces,  acting  in  concert 
with  each  other,  and  all  acting  in  concert 
with  the  home  Government,  can  organize  a 
more  eff"ertive  system  of  defence  than  we 
could  do  if  we  remained  separate  and  isolated. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  btlieve  this  question  should 
be  considered  chitdy  Iroui  a  commercial  point 
of  view.  ^Ye  must  necessarily  consider  the 
question  in  connection  with  the  more  inti- 
mate eoMimercial  intercourse  which  it  is  con- 
templated will  result  from  the  construction 
of  the  lijtercolonial  Railway.  A  new  market 
for  our  commodities  will  be  opened  up  by 
the  removal  of  the  barriers  to  trade  which 
now  exist  between  us.  Believing,  as  I  do, 
that  our  commercial  relations  with  our  sister 
provinces  should  be  free  and  unrestricted,  I 
am  heartily  in  favor  of  the  construction  of 
this  railway.  Alter  stating  that  upon  these 
general  principle.s  Lam  iu  Javor  of  the  union 
of  these  provinces,  1  may  also  state  that  had 
I  Tny  choice,  and  wore  my  vote  to  decide  the 
(lucstion,  I  would  say  "  g-ve  us  a  1  ogislative 
union,  '  because  I  bilieve  it  would  have,  for 
its  effect,  the  bringing  of  all  th<"^  colouiats 
more  immediately  into  contact  anil  conmo- 
tion  with  each  other,  renderiiii;  our  interests 
much  more  identical  than  by  the  Federal 
plan  JJut  I  infer,  from  the  speeches  made 
on  the  floor  of  this  House  at  the  opening  of 


807 


this  debate,  by  honorable  geitlemen  who 
■were  delegates  to  the  Conference  held  in 
this  city,  that  the  tw  ■  schemes  were  dis- 
cussed in  that  Conference — the  Legislative 
and  the  Federal — and  tliat  the  former  was 
found  to  be  impracticable.  It  is.  therefore, 
not  possible  for  us  now  to  decide  the  question 
in  favor  of  a  legislative  union.  We  have 
evidence  before  us  that  is  satisfactory  to  my 
mind,  that  probably  all  of  the  other  pro- 
vinces would  reluse  to  take  part  in  a  legisla- 
tive union.  The  Ht  norable  Attorney  General 
West,  in  his  speech  at  the  opening  of  the 
debate,  gave  us  sufficient  information  on  the 
point  to  convince  the  House  that  this  ques- 
tion had  been  fully  discussed  in  the  Confer- 
ence, and  the  legislative  plan  rejected,  on 
account  of  its  being  impracticable.  For  this 
reason,  sir,  believing  that  the  choice  before 
■us  is  either  to  accept  a  Federal  union  or  i  eject 
the  pruposal  entirely,  1  give  mj  assent  to 
the  present  scheme  without  hesitation. 
(Hear,  hear.)  It  is  brought  as  one  of  the 
strongest  argunients  against  this  union 
that  the  Federal  Government  will  be  far 
more  expensive  than  our  present  sys- 
tem. That  may  be  true  to  some  extent; 
but  my  impression  is  that  it  will  not  be 
found  true  to  the  extent  represented.  We 
must  bear  in  mind  that  we  have  in  each 
province  a  Government  fully  constituted, 
with  all  the  machinery  necessary  for  carry- 
ing on  the  bu.<iness  of  government.  Therefore 
the  new  machinery  required  would  be  very 
little,  and  would  amount  simply  to  the  local 
legislatures  for  Upper  and  Lower  Canada. 
Upon  these  general  principles  then,  I  must 
say  that  I  shall  give  my  adhesion  to  the 
scheme  of  union  submittea  to  us  ;  and  as  was 
well  remarked  by  the  hon.  member  for  Dun- 
das  (Mr.  J.  S.  Eoss),  the  language  in 
which  the  scheme  has  been  laid  before  us 
must  prove  very  acceptable  to  all  who  are  in 
favor  uf  a  union  such  as  that  proposed.  The 
gentlemen  composing  the  Conference  could 
not  have  used  language  more  acceptable  to 
11. e  than  that  in  which  the  first  resolution  is 
couched,  except  in  the  use  of  the  wotd 
"Federal,"  instead  of  "Legislative."  The 
resolution  reads  : — 

The  best  interests  and  present  and  future  pros- 
perity of  British  North  America  will  be  promoted 
by  a  Federal  union  under  the  Crown  of  Great 
Britain,  provided  .>uch  a  union  can  be  effected  on 
principles  just  to  the  several  provinces. 

Now,  sir,  I  am  pre?  ared  to  say  here,  and  I 
think  I  but  echo  the  voice  of  every  hon. 


gentleman  present,  that  all  the  people  a?k  is 
that  the  union  be  based  upon  principles  just 
to  the  several  provinces.  (Hear,  heur.)  We 
ask  nothing  more.  Again,  sir,  the  language 
employed  in  the  third  resolution  is  most 
satisfactory  : — 

In  framing  a  Constitution  for  the  General 
Government,  the  Conference,  with  a  view  to  the 
perpetuation  of  the  connection  with  the  Mother 
Country.  &c.,  to  the  promotion  of  the  best  in- 
terests of  the  people  of  these  provinces,  desire  to 
follow  the  model  of  the  British  Constitution,  so 
far  as  our  circumstances  will  permit. 

Surely,  -sir,  we  all  agree  that  no  better  model 
can  be  found,  or  better  system  of  government 
fuUowed.  than  that  of  the  British  Constitu- 
tion. (Hear,  hear.)  One  of  the  features 
of  this  scheme  that  commends  itself  strongly 
to  my  approbation  is  tiie  marked  distinction 
between  the  S}Stem  that  is  submitted  to  us, 
and  that  which  is  in  existence  in  the  neigh- 
boring republic.  1  believe  that  to  a  great 
extent  we  may  trace  the  unfortunate  difficul- 
ties that  exist  in  that  country  to  the  absurd 
doctrine  of  stite  rights.  Instead  of  their 
Central  Government  having,  in  the  first  in- 
stance, supreme  power,  and  delesating  cer- 
tain powers  to  the  local  or  state  governments, 
the  very  reverse  is  the  principle  on  which 
their  Constitution  is  founded.  Their  local 
governments  possess  the  principal  power, 
and  have  delegated  certain  powers  to  the 
General  Government.  In  the  scheme  sub- 
mitted to  us,  I  am  happy  to  observe  that  the 
principal  and  supreme  power  is  placed  in 
the  hands  of  the  General  Government,  and 
that  the  powers  deputed  to  the  loca!  govern- 
ments are  of  a  limited  character.  (Hear, 
hear.)  I  am  glad  also  to  observe  that  in  the 
proposed  organization  of  the  General-  Legis- 
lature of  the  united  provinces,  that  question 
which  has  so  long  agitated  the  people  of 
Canada — representation  by  popuhtion — is 
in  a  fair  way  of  being  satisfactorily  solved.^ 
It  is  proposed  that  in  the  General  Legisla- 
ture, or  House  of  Commons  as  it  h  to  be 
called,  each  province  shall  be  represented 
in  accordance  with  its  population,  thereby 
removing  that  which  bus  been  so  long  a 
source  of  agitation  in  Upper  Canada,  and  of 
vexation  to  Lower  Canada,  and  which  has 
led  to  the  discussion  of  the  scheme  now  be- 
fore the  House.  In  reference  to  the  organiz- 
ation of  the  Legislative  Council,  I  may  say 
that  I  have  always  been  found  among  those 
who  opposed  the  introduction  of  the  elective 
principle  into  the  coastitutioa  of  that  body 


808 


in  this  province,  and  I,  therefore,  find  no 
difficulty  in  giving  my  hearty  assent  to  the 
change  now  proposed,  I  have  always  believed, 
and  I  still  Leleve,  that  we  could  not  expect 
two  branches  of  the  Legislature,  owing  their 
sxistence  to  the  same  source,  and  being 
sleeted  by  the  same  class  of  voters,  to  work 
in  harmony  for  any  length  of  time.  (Hear, 
hear.)  It  may  be  called  a  retrograde  move- 
ment, yet  I  can  heartily  assent  to  it,  because, 
in  my  opinion,  it  places  things  where  they 
should  iiave  been  left.  In  pressing  upon 
this  House  the  adoption  or  rejection  of  these 
resolutions  as  a  whole,  I  believe  the  Govern- 
ment are  actuated  by  the  best  motives,  and 
that  it  is  their  duty  to  do  so.'  But  whilst  I 
am  prepared  to  give  my  vote  in  that  direc- 
tion, I  aji  also  quite  willing  to  admit  the 
force  of  the  objections  urged  by  the  Colonial 
Secretary  in  his  despatch  to  the  Governor 
General  of  the  3rd  December  last,  in  rela- 
tion to  the  constitution  of  the  Upper  House, 
so  far  as  the  limiting  of  the  number  of  mem- 
bers is  concerned.  I  for  one,  although  there 
is  no  doubt  that  these  resolutions  will  be 
passed  by  this  House  precisely  in  the  form 
in  which  they  have  been  submitted  to  us, 
am  quite  content  that  the  Imperial  Parlia- 
ment should  make  such  alterations  in  that, 
or  any  other  respect,  as  they  consider  neces- 
sary, and  I  shall  bow  with  very  great  satis- 
faction to  such  amendments.  (Hear,  hear.) 
There  are  two  or  three  questions  in  connec- 
tion with  these  resolutions  upon  which  I 
desire  to  offer  a  lew  remarks.  One  of  them 
is  that  of  educucion.  We  have  already  had, 
in  the  course  of  this  discussion,  a  good  deal 
said  on  this  subject.  [  would  simpljT  say,  as 
one  of  those  who  gave  effect  by  my  vote  to 
the  present  law  ot  Upper  Canada  for  the 
establishment  of  separate  schools,  that  in 
doing  so  I  believed  that  I  was  according  to 
the  minority  of  one  section  of  the  province 
what  I  conceived  the  minority  of  the  other 
section  were  entitled  to,  thus  doing  justice  to 
all.  It  gives  me,  therefore,  great  satisfac- 
tion to  observe  the  recognition  in  these  reso- 
lutions of  the  principle  that  the  rights  of  the 
minorities,  in  each  section,  with  respect  to 
educational  facilities,  should  be  guaranteed. 
I  confess  that  if  I  were  living  in  Lower 
Canada,  1  should  not  feel  that  I  was 
being  justly  treated  in  being  called  upon 
to  contribute  by  taxation  to  the  support 
of  schools  to  wliicli  I  could  not  con- 
scientiously send  my  children.  (Hear,  hear.) 
I  have  the  satisfaction  of  knowing  that,  alter 
giving  my  vote  upon  the  last  Separate  School 


Bill,  and  goinjj  back  to  my  constituents,  they 
were  fully  satisfied  with  the  explanation  I 
gave  them,  and  my  action  was  endorsed  by 
them.  Another  question  that  I  look  upon 
as  of  very  great  importance  to  these  colonies, 
is  not  dealt  with  in  these  resolutions  in  that 
manner  to  which  its  importance  entitles  it. 
I  refer  to  the  management  and  sale  of  our 
Crown  lands.  I  am  very  sorry  to  observe 
that  they  are  to  be  confided  to  the  control 
of  the  local  legislatures.  I  believe  that  if, 
in  any  one  question  more  than  another,  the 
Government  of  this  province  have  failed  in 
their  duty  in  times  past,  it  is  in  the  manage- 
ment of  our  Crown  lands.  The  complaint  I 
have  to  make  is  that  they  have  not  made  use 
of  those  lands  in  establishing  a  wise  and 
liberal  system  of  immigration,  by  offering 
them  free  to  all  who  would  come  and  settle 
upon  them.  It  cannot  but  be  humiliating  to 
every  person  having  a  stake  in  this  province 
to  observe  the  torrents  of  immigration  that 
pour  from  the  Mother  (  ountry  into  the 
neighboring  republic;  and  especially  so 
when  they  see  them  passing  through  the 
whole  length  of  Canada  by  multitudes  to  the 
Western  States.  (Hear,  hear.)  We  have, 
in  times  past,  failed  to  hold  out  such  induce- 
ments as  would  stop  that  tide  of  immigra- 
tion from  flowing  past  us.  I  fear  that  by 
leaving  those  lands  in  the  hands  of  the  local 
legislatures,  the  immigration  question  will 
be  dealt  with,  in  future,  in  the  same  narrow 
spirit  in  which  it  has  been  treated  in  times 
p.ist.  I  would  have  been  very  highly  pleased 
if  I  could  look  forward  to  the  future  with 
the  hope  that  our  Geucr  il  Legislature  would 
adopt  a  large,  enlightened,  and  liberal  scheme 
of  immigration,  sending  their  agents  to  all 
the  European  ports  from  which  the  largest 
tide  of  immigration  sets  in,  for  the  purpose 
of  explaining  to  the  people  the  advantages 
tliey  could  derive  from  settling  in  these  pro- 
vinces. I  am,  therefore,  very  sorry  to  see 
that  the  delegates  were  obliged  to  make  the 
arrangement  they  have  made  with  reference 
to  thii  important  question.  (Hear,  hear.) 
Now,  sir,  in  reference  to  another  of  the 
questions  embraced  in  these  resolutions, 
though  not  forming  a  part  of  the  proposed 
Constitution,  I  am  prepared  to  admit  here 
that  my  opinions  have  undergone  a  very 
material  change  since  I  first  came  into  this 
House.  1  refer  to  the  construction  of  the 
Intercolonial  llailwjiy.  I  came  here,  in 
1862,  decidedly  hostile  to  our  asauming  any 
portion  of  the  expense  of  constructing  that 
road.     1     believed,   at    that    time,    that   it 


809' 


construction  would  be  of  no  advantage  to 
Canada;  but  the  course  of  events  has  con- 
vinced me  that  the  time  has  now  arrived 
when  we  should  take  upon  ourselves  our  fair 
share  of  the  expense  of  constructing  this 
important  work.  It  cannot  be  satisfactory 
to  any  Canadian,  on  going  to  New  Bruns- 
wick or  Nova  Scotia,  to  find  that  he  is  a 
stranger  in  a  strange  country,  and  among  a 
people  who,  though  living  so  close  to  Canada, 
have  no  commercial  intercourse  with  us. 
Although  they  are  neighbors  of  ours,  in  one 
respect,  yet  they  are  neighbors  with  whom 
we  have  no  intercourse.  It  is  very  desirable 
that  the  barriers  to  our  intercourse  should 
be  removed,  and  the  construction  of  the 
Intercolonial  Railway  is,  in  my  opinion,  the 
only  effectual  means  of  removing  them.  Mr. 
Speaker,  it  has  been  argued  by  a  great  many 
of  those  who  have  taken  part  in  debating  this 
subject  that  this  House  is  assuming  for  itself 
a  power  that  it  does  not,  or  ought  not  to 
possess,  in  disposing  of  the  question  without 
submitting  it  to  the  popular  will.  It  is  said 
that  before  these  resolutions  take  effect  an 
expression  of  public  opinion  should  be  had 
through  a  general  election.  Some  of  those 
honorable  gentlemen  who  have  taken  this 
position  have  stated  as  a  reason  for  advocat- 
ing that  course  that  the  public  mind  was  not 
yet  properly  informed  as  to  the  effect  of  the 
proposed  change,  and  that,  therefore,  time 
should  be  given  until  public  opinion  is  pre- 
pared to  decide  upon  it.  But  with  a  strange 
inconsistency  those  same  gentlemen  are  flood- 
ing this  House  with  petitions  from  the  elec- 
tors, not  asking  for  delay,  not  asking  for  fur- 
ther time  to  consider  the  matter,  but  asking 
that  the  scheme  be  not  adopted.  They  in 
effect  show  by  their  petitions  that  they  have 
considered  the  subject — that  they  know  all 
about  it — that  their  opinions  are  fully  form- 
ed— and  that  the  measure  ought  not  to  be 
adopted.  Either  the  public  mind  is  fully 
ripe  for  the  adoption  or  rejection  of  the 
scheme,  or  else  those  electors  are  signino^ 
petitions  without  having  sufl&cient  inform- 
ation on  which  to  base  the  opinions  they  ex- 
press. But,  sir,  there  is  such  a  thing  as 
obtaining  public  opinion  on  almost  any  ques- 
tion, and  very  correctly  too,  without  going 
to  the  polls ;  and,  for  my  part,  I  find 
elections  very  inconvenient.  (Hear,  hear, 
and  laughter.)  I  believe  the  majority  of  the 
electors  of  Upper  Canada  have  read  those 
resolutions,  and  understand  them  about  as 
well  as  many  members  of  this  House  j  and, 

103 


sir^  we  have  every  reason  to  believe  that  the 
sentiment  of  Upper  Canada  at  least  is 
largely  in  favor  of  the  adoption  of  this 
scheme.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  took  occasion  to 
consult  my  constituents  before  coming  to 
this  House  on  the  present  occasion.  I  held 
meetings  in  the  various  municipalities  in  the 
county,  and  I  believe,  sir,  according  to  the 
best  of  my  ability,  I  did  submit  this  scheme 
to  the  electors  of  that  portion  of  the  pro- 
vince. I  have  heard  a  good  deal  said  here 
about  the  importance  of  having  the  question 
submitted  to  a  vote  of  the  people. 

3Ir.  M.  C.  CAMERON— I  would  like 
to  ask  the  gentleman  whether  he  laid  any 
figures  before  his  people  to  shew  the  differ- 
ence between  the  cost  of  a  Legislative  and  a 
Federal  union.  Unless  he  did  that,  the 
people  were  not  in  a  position  to  express  an 
opinion  as  to  what  was  best  for  their 
interests. 

Mr.  "WALSH — I  did  not  submit  figures 
to  shew  the  difference  in  cost  between  a 
Federal  or  Legislative  union,  for  the  simple 
reason  that  until  the  organization  of  the 
local  governments  is  decided  upon,  it  is 
not  possible  to  give  reliable  figures,  and  I 
therefore  think  the  people  as  competent  to 
make  calculations  on  this  subject  as  myself 
or  my  hon.  friend,  lawyer  though  he  be. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  ^may  say,  however,  in 
answer  to  the  hon.  gentleman,  that  I  did 
state  to  my  constituents  that  the  resolutions 
now  under  consideration  place  in  the  hands 
of  the  present  Legislature  the  preparation  of 
the  constitutions  and  the  organization  and 
composition  of  the  local  governments  of 
Upper  and  Lower  Canada ;  and  that  as  the 
Federal  GroVernment  is  to  pay  an  annual  sub- 
sidy of  eighty  cents  per  head  of  its  popula- 
tion to  the  respective  provinces,  for  carrying 
on  their  local  governments  and  the  construc- 
tion of  local  works,  any  sum  required  over  and 
above  that  subsidy  must  necessarily  be  raised 
by  direct  taxation,  and  in  that  fact  we  have 
the  strongest  possible  guarantee  that  in  the 
arrangements  made  by  this  Legislature,  and 
in  the  subsequent  management  of  their 
domestic  affairs  by  the  local  governments, 
the  strictest  simplicity  and  economy  will  be 
observed;  (Hear,  hear.)  So  much,  Mr. 
Speaker,  in  answer  to  the  question  of  the 
hon.  gentleman.  The  difference  between  us 
on  this  question  being  that  whilst  we  are 
both  advocates  of  a  legislative  union,  he  will 
accept  none  other.  I,  believing  that  un- 
attainable at  present,  am  prepared  to  accept 


810 


the  system  now  proposed,  hoping  that  the 
experience   of  the  people  will  soon   induce 
them  to  agree  to  the  abolition  of  the  local 
governments,  and  the  adoption  of  the  legis- 
lative system.    (Hear,  hear.)    I  may  add — 
and  I  do  so  with  great  personal  satisfaction — 
that  the  meetings  which  were   held   in  my 
own  county   were   largely  in   favor  of  the 
scheme,  and  that  resolutions  approving  of  it 
were  moved  and  seconded,  in  almost  every 
instance,   by    persons    of  different   political 
opinions.     (Hear,  hear.)     I  was  going  on  to 
rem:irk,  that  it  is  said  by  many  members  of 
this    House  that  the  scheme  could  not  be 
submitted  to  the  people,  because  tbe  Govern- 
ment in  sending  the  resolutions  to  the  mem- 
bers of  the  Legislature  marked  them  "  Pii- 
vatf."  Now,  sir,  I  managed  to  get  over  that 
difficulty  without  trcuble.     A   copy  of  the 
resolutions  was  sent  to  me,  and  as  I  was 
precluded  from  making  use  of  them  in  that 
form   without  violating  the    confidence  re- 
posed  in   me,   I   turned   to  the  newspaper 
version  of  the  same  resolutions,  and  finding 
it  to  be    a   verbatim  copy  of  the  original, 
when  I  attended  my  meetings  I  read  fro.u 
the    newspaper  and   not    from    the    private 
document  itself   (Hear,  hear,  and  laughter.) 
I  think  other  hon.  gentlemen   might   have 
taken  the  same  course  with  safety  to  them- 
selves   and     profit    to    their    constituents. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Without  wishing  to  detain 
the  House  longer,  I  shall  content  myself  by 
simply  expressing  my  regret  that  on  a  ques- 
tion of  such  paramount  importance — a  ques- 
tion  which   towers  in   magnitude  above  all 
others  that  have  ever  come  before  this  House 
— a  question  which  not  simply  affects  Canada, 
but  the  whole  British  North  American  Pro- 
vinces— a    question    which    does    not  only 
interest  us,  but  will  be  felt  in  its  influence 
upon  future  generations — I  have,  I  say,  to 
express  my  deep  regret  that  such  a  question 
should  not    have  been   treated    apart   from 
party  feeling,  party  prejudices,  and  a  oesire 
for  party  triumph.     (Chears.)     Our  object 
in  considering  this  subject  should  not  be  to 
put  one   party   out    of    office    and   another 
party  in,  but  to  determine  what  will   most 
conduce  to  the  present  and  future  prosperity 
of  the  British  North   American   Provinces. 
(Hear,  hear.)     It  is  a  matter  of  indifference 
to  me,  so  far  as  it  affects  this  question,  who 
occupy  the  seats  on  the  Treasury  benches.     I 
look  upon  this  question  irrespective  of  party 
leelings.    From  the  present  p^Hition  of  these 
provinces,  I  think    it  is  our  duty  and  our 
interest  alike  to  give  effect  to  these  resolu- 


tions so  far  as  we  can  do  so.  If  they  fail 
through  the  action  of  the  Lower  Provinces, 
we  shall  not  be  responsible.  If  we  believe 
that  the  resolutions  will  be  conducive  to 
our  interests,  we  are  bound  to  sustain  the 
hon.  gentlemen  who  agreed  to  them  as  a 
basis  of  union.  Believing  this  to  be  the 
proper  course  to  be  pursued,  I  shall,  as  I  have 
already  said,  have  ^reat  pleasure  in  giving 
them  my  support.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  is 
just  one  other  remark  that  I  may  perhaps  be 
permitted  to  refer  to,  which  fell  irom  the 
hon.  member  lor  North  Waterloo  (Mr.  Bow- 
man), that  I  decidedly  dissent  from.  The 
hon.  gentleman  spoke  of  this  scheme  as  one 
which,  if  adopted,  would  conduce  to  in- 
dependence. I  must  object  to  that  view 
being  taken  of  it.  If  I  thought  that  the 
adoption  of  the  scheme  now  before  us  could 
in  any  respect  have  the  effect  of  severing 
these  colonics  from  the  Mother  Country, 
whatever  the  consequences  might  be,  I 
should  have  no  hesitation  ia  giving  my  vote 
asrainst  it.  I  believe  there  is  nothins:  more 
ardently  to  be  desired — no  greater  glory 
attainable  than  for  these  colonies  remaining 
for  all  time  to  come,  as  we  are  now,  depen- 
dencies of  Great  Britain. 

Hon.  Mr.  COUKBURX— The  honorable 
member  for  North  Waterloo  referred  to  it  as 
a  means  of  maintaining  our  independence 
against  the  United  States. 

Mr.  WALSH — I  do  not  desire  to  mis- 
represent the  hon.  gentleman,  and  I  am 
glad  to  hear  that  I  have  misconceived  the 
tenor  of  his  remarks.  Mr.  Speaker,  I  have 
detained  the  House  longer  than  I  purposed 
doing  when  I  rose.  J  have  touched  very 
briefly  on  some  of  the  general  features  of 
the  scheme ;  but  I  have  not  occupied 
valuable  time  in  quoting  authorities,  or  iu 
reading  passages  illustrative  of  the  past 
political  history  of  hoa.  gentlemen  on  either 
side.  It  matters  very  little  to  me,  in  con- 
sidering this  question,  what  certain  hon. 
gentlemen  thought  twelve  months  ago  about 
representation  by  population  or  any  other 
subject.  Tliis  is  a  question  to  bo  decided 
by  itself  aud  upon  its  owu  merits;  and  be- 
lieving that  the  adoi)lioa  of  this  scheme,  80 
far  as  we  in  Canada  are  concerned,  will  be 
fraught  with  great  benefits  to  ourselves  as 
well  as  to  those  who  may  come  after  us,  I 
repeat  that  it  will  afford  me  great  pleasure 
in  giving  my  support  to  the  resolutions. 
(Cheers.) 

Mr. GIBBS  said — MrSrHAKER,  in  rising 
'  at  this  late  hour,  I   fuel,  in   common  wilh 


811 


many  hon.  members  who  have  preceded  me, 
that  the  debate  has  been  sufficiently  pro- 
tracted, and  should  be  brought  to  a  close  as 
speedily  as  possible.  Nevertheless,  as  a 
member  lately  elected  to  represent  a  wealthy 
and  populous  constituency,  largely  engaged 
in  commercial,  manufacturing,  and  agricul- 
tural pursuits,  I  deem  h  my  duty  to  state  my 
views  on  the  proposed  union  of  the  British 
North  American  Provinces,  now  under  the 
consideration  of  this  House.  In  my  opinion, 
sir,  the  gent'emen  who  occupy  the  Treasury 
banches  deserve  credit  for  the  earnest  and 
energetic  manner  in  which  they  have  applied 
themselves  to  carry  out  the  pledges  which 
they  gave  the  country  during  the  course  of 
last  summer.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  look  upon 
it  that  the  vote  about  to  be  taken  is  a 
foregone  conclusion,  and,  for  all  practical 
purposes,  might  as  well  have  been  taken  as 
soon  as  the  resolutions  had  been  read  and 
spoken  to  by  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
West.  I  have  remarked,  sir,  that  almost 
every  hon.  member  that  has  spoken  has 
expressed  himself  as  fovorable  to  a  union  of 
some  kind  or  other  with  the  Maritime 
Provinces.  When  the  delegates  from  the 
eastern  provinces  met  at  Charlottttown , Prince 
Edward  Island,  they  contemplated  a  legisla- 
tive union  among  themselves;  but  when  in- 
vited to  visit  Quebec  for  the  purpose  of  holding 
a  conftirence  with  a  view  to  a  union  of  the 
whole  of  the  colonies,  the  Federal  principle 
was  sustituted  for  the  Legislative,  Lower 
Canada  and  the  eastern  provinces  voting 
as  a  unit  for  it,  while  the  members  repre- 
senting Canada  West  were  divided,  the  Hon. 
Attorney  General  West  preferring  a  Legis- 
lative union,  and  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council  a  Federal  one.  The  subject  of 
"  Union  of  the  Provinces  "  has  been  looked 
upon  with  favor,  not  only  by  our  own  states- 
men, who  have  of  late  years  regarded  it  as  a 
measure  calculated  to  remove  the  difficulties 
which  have  surrounded  the  legislation  of 
the  country,  but  by  leading  statesmen  of 
England  as  well,  who  view  the  proposal 
favorably,  as  being  the  means  of  building 
up  a  great  cation,  and  also  of  preserving 
monarchical  institutions  on  this  continent. 
(Hear,  hear.)  Mr.  Speaker,  whatever  may 
have  been  the  points  of  difference  which 
gave  rise  to  the  lengthened  discussions  of 
the  Conference,  there  was  one  upon  which, 
judging  by  the  speeches  of  the  delegates, 
and  also  from  the  resolutions  themselves, 
there  was  perfect  unanimity — that  of  loyalty 


and  attachment  to  the  Throne  of  Great 
Britain.  (Hear,  hear.)  One  would  have 
thought  it  unnecessary  to  incorporate  such 
a  sentiment  in  the  resolutions,  yet  the  first 
of  the  series  gives  utterance  to  it  and  is 
thus  expressed  : — 

The  best  interests  and  present  and  future  pros- 
perity of  Br-.tish  North  America  will  be  promoted 
by  a  Federal  uuioa  under  the  Crown  of  Great 
Britain. 

With  regard  to  the  future  of  this  proposed 
union,  it  is  curious  to  note  what  is  said  and 
written  in  reference  to  it,  some  urging  that 
its   inevitable    result  will    be    a  separation 
from  our  present  happy  connection  with  the 
Mother  Country,  and  ultimate  independence; 
while  another  class,  equally  confideut,  declares 
that   it    will    lead    to   annexation    with   the 
United  States.    (Hear.)   Whatever  the  ulti- 
mate fate  of  such  a  union  may  be,  it  is  con- 
ceded  by    all    parties    that    there    exists   a 
ncces;tity  for  a  change  of  some   kind   in  the 
political  relations   existing  between   Upper 
and  Izower  Canada,  and  it  is  gratifying  to 
reflect  that  an  expedient  has  been  devised 
for  allaying  the  raocourous  party  spirit  that 
has  been   tDO  frequently  exhibited   on   the 
floor  of  this  House.    (Bear,  hear.)  We  may 
congratulate  ourselves,  sir,  that  while   our 
republican  neighbors  are  engaged  in  bloody 
strife,  one  portion  spilling  its  best   blood   in 
order  to  obtain  a   new  Constitution,  we  can 
discuss  the  propriety  of  making  a  change  in 
our  own,  which  has  not  been  iuaptly  termed 
a    "  bloodless    revolution,"   without   let    or 
hindrance,  but  on  the  contrary  with  the  full 
consent  and  authority  of  the  power  to  which 
we  owe  allegiance.    (Hear.)    The  provisions 
of  this  new  Constitution   have   been    widely 
disseminated,  and  in  some  sections  thorough- 
ly discussed.     In  the   riding  which   I  have 
the  I'.onor  to  represent,  public  attention  was 
drawn  to  Confederation   during  the  recent 
election,  and  I  am  fully  justified  in  stating, 
that  with  a  few  exceptions  here   and  there, 
there  were  not  to  be  found  many  dissentients 
to  it.     (Hear,  hear.)     It  is  true  that  upon 
one  or  two  occasions  there  were  found  lead- 
ing men  who  took  the  ground  that  they  did 
not  think   it  desirable  to    enter    into    this 
union,  but  such  iastances   were   rare.     One 
of  these  gentlemen,  the  reeve  of  oue  of  the 
mo3t   important  townships    in   the    riding, 
attended  a  meeting,  where  he  met   a  large 
number  of  the   electors;  but  after  he   had 
delivered  his  address,  he  could  not  find  one  to. 


812 


respond  to  the  sentiiuents  he  had  expressed. 
(Hear,  hear.)     Another  gentleman,  an  ex- 
reeve  and  an   ex-member  ol'  Parliament — 
although  Le  never  had  the  honor  of  taking 
his   seat  in  this  House— also  addressed  a 
large  meetinL',  but  with  the  same  result  as 
in  the  previous  case.     The  only  opposition 
which  was  manifested  throughout  the  con- 
test was  not  to  the   scheme  itself,    but  to 
points  of  detail.    (Hear,  hear.)    The  Cobsti- 
tution  of  the   Legislative  Council  was  the 
principal    one    referred    to,   my   opponent 
contending  that  the  Upper  House  should 
continue   an  elective  body,  as   at  present, 
instead  of  being  a  nominated  Chamber,  as  it 
is  proposed  to  make  it.  I  can  sustain  the  view 
taken  by  the  Hon,  President  of  the  Council 
in  his  opening  address  the  other  evening, 
when  he  said  he   would   not  hesitate   to  go 
into    any   liberal   constitueacy   in   Western 
Canada   and    obtain   their  sanction  to  this 
principle.    (Hear,  hear.)    Such  at  all  events 
was  the  result  in  South  Ojtario.     I  am  free 
to  admit  that  a  change  was  not  asked  for  in 
the  constitution  of  the  Legislative  Council; 
but    although    the    resolutions    make   the 
change,  there  is  a  feeling   abroad   in    the 
country  that  on  this  account  the  scheme  as 
a   whole    should    not  be  rejected.     (Hear, 
hear.)    Whenever  a  point  was  attempted  to 
be  made  atraiust  me  that  I  was  endeavorins:, 
by  my  advocacy  of  the  nominative  principle, 
to  build  up  an   aristocracy  in   this  country, 
and  that  the  result  would  be  the  locking  up 
of  the  lands  of  the  province  in  the  hands  of 
a  privileged  class,  I  replied   that  such   had 
not  been  the  case  in  the  past,  and  that  in  a 
country  like  ours  such  could   never  be  its 
results;  and  I  further  stated  that  the  leader 
of  the  Keform  party,  the  Hon.  President  of 
the  Council,  had  himself  stood  almost  alone 
on  his  side  of  the  House  in   1850,  in  resist- 
ing the  change  from  the   nominative  to  the 
elective  principle.     My  desire,  sir,  is  to  see 
the  union  carried   out  only  on   a  fair  and 
equitable  basis,  and  this,  I  think,  is  likelj 
to  be  attained  in   the  manner  proposed   for 
the  assumption  by  the  Central  Government 
(at  $'J5  per  head)  of  the  debts  or  portion  of 
debts  for  ivhich  each  province  is  now  liable. 
I  regret,  however,  that  so  high  a  figure  as 
80c.  per  head  has  been   fixed  upon  as   the 
subsidy  to  the    local  legislatures,  for  I  fear 
the  revenue  will  be   so  large  that  taken   in 
connection  with  the  revenues  derivable  from 
local  sources,  the  surplus,  after  del'raying  the 
expenses  of  povcrument,   may  induce  that 
extravagance  which  has  been  so  i'rcquently 


deprecated  in  the  past,  and  which  by  this 
arrangement  may  be  continued  in  the  future. 
I  have  taken  some  pains,  sir,  to  ascertain 
what  will  be  ihe  probable  position  of  Upper 
Canada  under  the  arrangement  as  proposed, 
and  I  find  that  its  revenue  and  probable  ex- 
penditure will  be  aboui  as  follows  : — 

REVENUE. 

Law  fees $100,000 

Municipal  Loan  Fund 180,000 

U.  C.  Building  Fund 30,000 

Grammar  School  do 20,000 

Crown  lands 280,000 

Education  Fund 8,000 

Public  works   6-1,000 

Subsidy  at  80  cents 1,117,000 

Other  sources 32,000 


§1,831,000 

EXPENDITURE. 

Admiiustration  of  justice    $275,000 

Education 265,000 

Literary  and  scientific  institutions.  10,000 

Hospitals  and  charities 43,01 '0 

Agricultural  societies 56,000 

Gaols,  from  Building  Fund 32,000 

Roads  and  bridges 75,000 

Expense  of  managing  Crown  lands  75,000 

Interest  on  liabilities  over  assets..  225,000 
Interest    on    proportion  of    debt 

to  be  assumed,  say 150,000 

Balance  available 625,000 


$1,831,000 


In  this  statement  I  have  not  included  the 
Municipality  Fund,  as  the  receipts  are  dis- 
tributed the  following  year  amongs*  the 
municipalities.  Estimating  the  expense  of 
the  Local  Government  at  §150,000,  we  have 
a  balance  of  8475,000  per  annum  for  local 
purposes.  I  regard  the  subsidy  as  altogether 
too  large,  and  shall  hope  to  see  it  very 
materially  reduced.  (Hear,  hear.)  My  hon. 
friend  from  North  Ontario,  upon  the  hypo- 
thesis that  the  Maritime  Provinces  con- 
tribute one-fifth  of  the  revenue  of  tlie  pro- 
posed Confederacy,  and  the  balance  by  the 
Canadas,  in  the  relative  proportion  of  two 
dollars  by  Upper  Canada  to  one  dollar  by 
Lower  Canada,  founds  an  argument  thereon, 
shewing  that  each  additional  representative 
gained  for  Upper  Canada  will  cost  $17,000. 
Now,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  apprehend  that  when 
the  union  is  accomplished  and  the  duties 
equalized,  this  seeming  objection  will,  to 
some  extent  at  least,  bo  removed,  for  it  is 
well  known  that  the  Maritime  Provinces 
consume   much   more   largely   of  imported 


813 


goods,  per  head,  than  we  do.  (Hear.)  But 
let  this  principle  be  extended  to  county  and 
township  matters,  and  it  would  necessitate 
appropriations  to  the  wealthier  townships,  in 
the  proportion  each  contributed  to  the  revenue 
of  the  county — a  principle  which  has  never 
been  contended  for,  and  facts  will  go  to 
show  that  it  is  seldom  done  even  upon  popu- 
lation, -as  is  proposed  by  this  scheme.  But 
as  it  was  necessary  to  establish  some  basis 
for  contributing  to  the  expenses  of  the 
local  governments,  without  compelling  them 
to  resort  to  direct  taxation,  I  think  the 
principle  adopted,  that  of  population,  is  not 
unjust.  (Hear,  hear.)  Again,  it  is  argued 
that  as  Canada  West  contributes  in  the  pro- 
portion already  alluded  to,  that  in  the  pay- 
ment of  subsidies  she  will  contribute  more 
than  her  fair  proportion  in  the  proposed 
Confederacy.  To  this  I  reply,  if  the  hypo- 
thesis that  the  proportion  which  Upper  and 
Lower  Canada  respectively  contribute  to  the 
general  revenue  be  correct,  and  that  the 
subsidy  should  be  based  upon  revenue  and 
not  population,  then  undoubtedly  the  argu- 
ment is  a  good  one.  Bat,  sir,  let  us  see  if 
the  proposed  arrangement  is  not  a  great 
improvement  on  the  present  method  of  dis- 
tributing the  public  funds.  It  is  well  known, 
sir,  that  the  complaint  which  Upper  Canada 
has  made  in  the  past  was  that  the  appropri- 
ations were  made,  not  upon  revenue,  nor  even 
according  to  population,  but  in  utter  disre- 
gard of  both.  Under  the  system  which 
has  hitherto  prevailed  for  dividing  money 
grants,  of  the  proposed  subsidy  to  the  two 
Canadas  ($2,005, lOiJ,  or  80  cts.  per  head). 
Upper  Canada  would  have  re- 
ceived one-half $1,002,701 

Whereas,  according  to  popu- 
lation    1,116,872 


Difference  in    favor    of   the 
proposed  system  over  the 

old  one ;. §    114,171 

As  the  moneys  have  been  distributed  equally 
in  the  past  between  Upper  and  Lower  Ca- 
nada, I  maintain  that  the  balance  of  the 
public  debt,  say  $5,000,000,  to  be  appor- 
tioned between  them,  should  be  divided  in 
the  same  way,  and  not,  as  proposed  by  the 
Hon.  Finance  Minister,  on  population.  But 
it  is  said  the  scheme  will  lead  to  extrava- 
gance. I  had  hoped,  Mr.  Speaker,  that 
an  alliance  with  the  frugal  and  thrifty  pop- 
ulation of  the  eastern  provinces  would  in- 
duce the  very  opposite,  and  lead  to  greater 
economy  in  the  public  expenditure  than  we 


have  had  in  the  past.  (Hear,  hear.)  With 
reference,  sir,  to  the  cost  of  the  local  gov- 
ernments, that  siibject  has  been  left  in  the 
bands  of  the  local  legislatures  entirely, 
the  resolutions  shewing  whence  their  in- 
come shall  be  derived,  and  what  the  subsidy 
shall  be  without  compelling  a  resort  to  direct 
taxation.  I  claim  for  this  scheme,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  it  will  give  us  national  im- 
portance. (Hear.)  But  here  again  it  is 
objected  that  to  obtain  this  we  must  have  a 
vast  population.  When  the  colonies  now 
forming  a  portion  of  the  American  union 
severed  the  connection  from  the  parent  state, 
their  population  was  set  down  at  2,500,000, 
and  although  an  impression  has  very  gener- 
ally obtained  that  they  have  increased  in 
population  faster  than  we  have,  an  examina- 
tion into  the  facts  shows  that  siich  is  not 
the  case — for  in  1860  their  population 
reached  30,000,000,  an  increase  of  1,200 
per  cent,  while  ours  in  the  same  period  had 
increased  from  145,000  in  1784,  to  3,000,000 
in  1861,  or  over  2,300  per  cent.  (Hear.) 
Confederation,  sir,  would  give  us  nationality 
— I  speak  of  British  nationality — a  nation 
created  from  the  fragmentary  portions  of  the 
provinces  of  Britain  on  this  continent,  but 
still  retainiog  its  allegiance  to  the  British 
Crown.  Then,  sir,  it  is  claimed  that  the 
commercial  advantages  which  may  arise 
from  Confederation  of  the  provinces  can  as 
readily  be  obtained  by  a  Legislative  as  a 
Federal  union.  This  is  admitted;  but  as 
that  is  not  obtainable,  and  as  a  union  would 
remove  the  barriers  to  commercial  inter- 
course and  foster  the  trade  between  the 
colonies  (each  of  which  now  effects  more 
exchanges  with  the  United  K^ttates  thin  with 
all  the  rest  of  the  provinces),  it  is  desirable 
that  the  union  should  take  place.  (Hear.) 
This  leads  me,  sir,  to  remark  upon  the 
probable  abrogation  of  the  Reciprocity  treaty. 
The  country  will  be  glad  tD  know,  from  the 
announcement  made  to  the  House  on  Mon- 
day last,  that  the  Ministry  i5  alive  to  the 
importance  of  entering  into  immediate  ne 
gotiations, through  the  English  G-overnment, 
with  that  of  the  United  States,  for  the 
renewal  of  this  treaty.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  am 
not  of  the  number  who  believe  that  the 
advantages  accruing  from  this  treaty  have 
been  all  on  the  side  of  Canada;  for,  from  the 
statements  lately  published,  it  appears  that 
the  whole  trade  of  1854  was...  $24,000,000 
And  in  1863 43,000,000 


An   increase   in   ten  years  of 


814 


nearly  180  per  cent 819,000,000 


The  exports  from  Canada  to  the 

United  States  amounted  in 

ten  years  to  8150,000,000 

Imports  into  Canada  in   do  ...  195,000,000 


845,000,000 

The  difference  in  favor  of  the  United  States 

being  paid  in  gold. 

In  1854  free  e;oods  imported 

into  Canada  from  the  United 

States  amounted  to  S  2,000,000 

And  in  1863  19,000,000 

Increase  in  ten  years  850  perct.  817,000,000 

I  do  not  fear,  sir,  but  that  the  treaty  will  be 
renewed  ;  enlightened  counsels  will  prevail, 
and,  with  the  better  feeling  existing  between 
the  two  countries,  the  subject  will  be  taken 
up  in  a  proper  spirit,  and  legislated  upon 
accordingly.     (Hear.)     The  coostruction  of 
the   Intercolonial   Railway  is  said   to  be  a 
necessity  of  the  proposed  union,  and  without 
it  there  can  be  no  union  except  in  name. 
Calculations   have   been   made  which   show 
that  this  road  cannot  be  used  for   carrying 
heavy  merchandise   at  remunerative   rates, 
more    especially   flour,   which    it   has   been 
shuwn    would    co-t   82.25    per   barrel  from 
Toronto  to  Halifax,  at  two  cents  per  ton  per 
mile.     The  Grand  Trunk  Railway  now  car- 
ries flour  from  Toronto  to   Montreal    for  25 
cents   per  barrel  during  winter,  and  at  the 
same  rate  a  barrel  of  flour  would  cost  81.22. 
If  this  could  be  done,  the  difference  in  cost 
between  winter  rates  and  shipping  via  the  St. 
Lawrence  in  summer,  at  85  cents  per  barrel, 
would   be   made  up  in  a  saving  of  storage, 
interest,  and  insurance.     Then  there  is  the 
military   aspect  of  the   subject,  which   has 
already  been  thoroughly  discussed.     1  con- 
tend,   sir,    that  union    with    the    Maritime 
Provinces  not  only  allies  us  more  closely  to 
them  and  to  each  other,   but  also  to   that 
power   which    alone    could    render    us   aid 
whenever  subjected  to  attack  ;  and,  regarded 
fiom  this  point  of  view,  this  railroad  is  said 
to  be  a   necessity.     ].,ord   Duruam    in   his 
report  said  : — 

An  union  for  common  defence  against  foreign 
•enemifsis  the  national  bond  of  connection  that 
holds  together  the  great  commui^ities  of  the 
world,  and  between  no  parts  of  any  kingJom  or 
^tate   did  the  necessity   e.\ist  of  such  a  uuiou 


more  obviously  than  between  the  whole  of  these 
colonies. 

(Hear,  hear.)  In  conclusion ;  sir,  if  we  reject 
the  proposed  union,  what  is  offered  as  a 
substitute  ?  In  the  absence  of  anything 
better  which  will  settle  onr  existing  diffi- 
culties, shall  we  reject  the  opportunity  now 
presented  and  that  may  never  recur  ?  Rather 
let  us,  as  members  of  the  same  family,  unite 
for  weal  or  for  woe.  By  it  we  secure  enlarged 
commercial  intercourse,  greater  security  in 
case  of  attack,  a  remedy  for  the  existing  dif- 
ficulties between  Upper  and  Lower  Canada, 
and  also  render  more  lasting  the  connection 
now  existing  with  the  Mother  Country. 
(Hear.)  While  in  favor  of  this  measure, 
but  believing  that  it  should  be  submitted  for 
the  approval  of  those  who  are  to  be  affected 
by  the  contemplated  change,  I  shall  feel  it 
to  be  my  duty  in  the  first  instance  to  vote 
against  the  "previous  question,"  in  order 
that  such  an  amend:nent  may  be  put,  reserv- 
ing the  right  to  vote  for  the  amendment  of 
the  hon.  member  for  Peel,  when  that  shall 
come  up  for  discussion,  its  object  being  to 
suba.it  the  qu'stion  for  popular  sanction. 
(Cheers.)  If  this,  however,  shall  fail,  I 
shall  vote,  Mr.  Speaker,  for  the  resolution 
now  in  your  hands. 

The  uebate  was  then  adjourned. 


Thursday,  March  9,  1865, 

Mu.  D.    FORD    JONES    resumed    the 
adjourned   debate.     He  said  —  I  rise,  Mr. 
Speakeii,  to  address  the  House  on  the  reso- 
lutions which  you  hold    in   your   hand  in 
favor  of  a  Confederation  of  all  the  Provinces 
of  British  North  America.    I  leel  that  the 
question   is  one  involving  iuch   very  great 
interests,  involving,  a  change  in  the  whole 
Constitution  of  the  country,  and  involving 
consequences    which    may    plunge    us    into 
great   difliculties,  or   which   may   have   the 
very    opposite    effect  —  that    I    feel    great 
difiideuce  and  embarrassment  in  approaching 
it.     But  1  feel  it  is  a  duty  I  owe  to  uiyself 
and  to  those  who  sent  mo  here,  that  I  should 
express  my  opinions  ou  this  proposed  union, 
before  I  record  my  vote  ou    the  resolutions 
now  before  the  House.     I  desire  to  do  this, 
because  I  cannot  give   my  approval  to  the 
whole  scheme,  some  of  its  details  being  such 
that  I  cnuuot  support  them. 


815 


Hon.  Mr.  HOLTON— Hear,  hear. 

Mr.  JONES— The  way  in  which  I  look  at 
this    question    dojs  not   at   all   depend  on 
whether  this  hon.    gentleman  or   that  hen. 
gentleman  may  be  at  the  head  of  affairs  in  this 
country;    or    whether    we     n)ay     have    a 
Coalition  Government    or   a   purely    party 
Government ;  but  I  consider  we  should  look 
at  the   sheme   on  its  own   merits,  and  deal 
with  it  as  a  whole,  giving  a  fair  and  square 
vote  on  the  resolutions  as  a  whole.     (Hear, 
hear.)     I  think,  therefore,  that  the  course 
which  has  been  taken  by  the  Government  to 
obtain  such   a  vote   is  the  wise  and  honest 
course.    (Hear,  hear.)  I  think  they  deserve 
credit  for  the  step  they  have  taken  with  a 
view  to  bringing  this  debate  to  a  close.    We 
have  been   debating  this  question  day  after 
day  for  a  number  of  weeks,  and  I  must  say 
that   the   opposition   given  by  hon.   gentle- 
men on  the  other  side   has  been  of  a  very 
factious    character ;    time   after   time    they 
have  risen   to  make  motions  on  this,  that, 
and  the  other  thing,    keeping   the    House 
from  addressing  itself  to   the   matter  really 
under  debate,  and  protracting  unnecessarily 
the  decision  of  the  qutstion.  Only  the  night 
bdfore   last,   when    an  hon.   gentleman   had 
risen    for    the    purpose    of    addressing  the 
House,  they  cried  out  that  it  was  too  late, 
and  called  for  an  adjourment  of  the  debate  ; 
and   yet,  when    that   was    agreed    to,    they 
wasted  two  op  three  hours  in  moving  addi- 
tions to  that  motion  for  adjournment.     This 
was  done,  too,  by  hon.  gentlemen  who  were 
well  conversant  with  the  rules  of  this  House, 
and  who  must  have  known  that  these  motions 
were  not  in  order.     At  midnight  they  were 
too  tired  to  allow   the   debate  to  go  on,  and 
yet  they  kept  the  House  sitting   after  that 
till     tliree     in    the     morning,     discussing 
mere  points  of  order.     (Hear,  hear.)     Th  t 
has  been  the  course  pursued  by  hon.  gentle- 
men opposite.  And  what,  on  the  other  hand, 
has  been  the  course  pursued  by  the  Admin- 
istration ?  Did  they  not  put  a  motion  on  the 
notice  paper — amotion  which  the  factiousness 
of  lion.  gentlemen  opposite  prevented  from 
being  put  to  the  vote — to  give  further  time 
for  the  discussion  of  this  question,  by  resolv- 
ing that  instead  of  its  being   taken   up  at 
half-past  seven,  it  should    be  taken  »up  at 
three,  the  whole  time  of  the   House   being 
devoted  to  it  ?  We  have  been   debating   the 
question  for  weeks,  and  though  hon.' gentle- 
men opposite  have  been  in  their  places  they 
have  not  proposed  a  single  amendment.  And 
yet,  after  this  had  gone  on  for  such  a  length 


of  time,  so  soon  as  the  "  previous  question  " 
is  moved,  those  hon.  gentlemen   get  up  and 
cry  out  that  they  are  gagged.     Even  after 
the  House  began  to  discuss  the  question  at 
three  o'clock,  these  hon.  gentlemen  day  afer 
day  wasted  the  time  by  getting  in  one  side- 
wind after  ano^^her,  in  order  to  create  delay, 
to  see  if  something  might  not  turn  up  against 
the  scheme.     Now,    at  last,   they   have  got 
something.     Something   has    turned    up  in 
New  Brunswick,  and  I  suppose  they  will  now 
permit  us  to  cume  to  a  vote.     (Hear,  hear.) 
In  discussing  this  question,  I  do  not  see  any 
necessity  for  going  back  eight  or  ten  years 
to  the  speeches  of  hon.  members.     I  do  not 
see  why  lengthy  extracts  should  be  read  to 
shew  that  the  hon.  member  for  Montmorency 
opposed  the  union  of  the  provinces  in  1::58, 
or  that  the   hon.  member  for  Hochelaga,  at 
that  time,  was  in  favor  of  it.     I   do  not  see 
what  that  has  to  do  with  the  question  before 
us.     It  is  now  submitted  in  a  practical  form 
for  our   decision,  and    what  we  have  to  do 
is  to  give  a  square  vote,  yea  or  nay,  that  we 
are  in  favor  ot  this  Confederation,  or  that  we 
are   against    it.     Our    circamGtances    have 
changed  within  the  last  few  years  ;  but  it  is 
noto-n  thataccount  merely  that  I  now  support 
this  union.  I  have  always,  upon  every  occa- 
sion, on  the    busting?,  at   public  meetings 
and    elsewhere,    advocated    a   union-  of  the 
British    North    American    Provinces  ;    and 
were  our  relations  with  the  United  States  in 
the  same  favorable  form  that  existed  some 
five  or  six  years  since,  I  would  still  give  my 
support  to  a  union.    It  is,  therefore,  sir,  not 
because    I    think  there  is  a  great   present 
necessity  for  the  scheme  being  brought  to  a 
speedy   conclusion    that  I   now   support  it. 
That  present  necessity,  however,  now  exists, 
and  I  do  not  see  why  other  hon.  gentlemen, 
after  a  lapse  of  five  or  six  years,  when  times 
have   changed,  and   a  greater  urgency  has 
arisen  for  such  a  union,  should  not  be  allowed 
to  change  their  minds.    "  Wise  men  change 
their  minds  ;  fools  have  no  minds  to  chaoge." 
(Hear,  hear.)     Shortly  before  the  meeting 
of  this  House,   I  advertised   that   I  would 
hold  a  series   of  meetings   in  the  riding  of 
South  Leeds,  for  the  purpose  of  placing  my 
views  upon  this  question   before  my  consti- 
tuents,   and    to    see   whether    their   views 
accorded  with  my  own  ;  men  of  all  shades 
of  politics  were   requested  to  attend  these 
meetings,  and   they  were  very  uiimerou.sly 
and  respectably   attended,  not  only  by  those 
who  supported  me,   but  also  by   those  who 
were  my  most  bitter  opponents  at  the  last 


816 


election.     And   at   all   of  those   meetings, 
some  six  or  seven,  not  a  single  voice  was 
raised  against  the  union  of  these  provinces 
with  the  Provinces  of  Nova  Scotia,  N^jw 
Brunswick,  Newfoundland,  and  Prince  Ed- 
ward   Island.     All   appeared  to  think  such 
a  union  advisable  and  necessary,  not  only 
for  commercial  purposes,    but  because    it 
would  tend  to  strengthen  the  ties  that  bound 
us  to  the  Mother  Country.  It  has  been  said 
that  this  union  has  never  been  before  the 
people,  that  it  has  never  been  a  test  question 
at  the  polls.     Now,  sir,  so  long  ago  as  the 
year  1826,  this  union  was  advocated  by  Sir 
John  Beverley  Robinson,  one  of  the  most 
able  men  this   country  has   ever  produced  ; 
subsequently,  on  different  occasions,  it  was 
adverted  to  by  Lord  Durham  in  his  celebrated 
report — also  by  the  British  American  League, 
presided   over  by  the   late  lamented   Hon. 
GrEO.    MoFFATT    of  Montreal,   and  latterly 
in  that  despatch  to  the    home  Government 
in  October,  1858,  over  the  signatures  of  the 
Hon.   Messrs.   Cartier,  Galt  and  Ross. 
Why  action  was  not  taken  upon  that  despatch, 
I   cannot  say;  I   leave  this   matter  in  the 
hands  of  those  who  at  that  time  administered 
the  affairs   of  this    country,    and   who   are 
responsible  for   the  course  they  pursued  in 
allowing  it  to  be  dropped.     Sir,  the  union 
of  these  provinces  would,  in   my   humble 
opinion,  be  of  the  very  '  greatest  advantage 
to  us  in  many  points.     It  would  strengthen, 
and  not  weaken,  as  has  been  said  by  its 
opponents,    the    ties    that   bind    us   to  the 
Mother  Country.  It  would  give  us  a  standing 
in  the  eyes  of  the  world.     Instead  of  being 
several  small,  disjointed  and  fragmentary  pro- 
vinces, as  was  so  ably  expressed  in  the  Speech 
from  the  Throne,  we  would  form  one  great 
nationality,  with  a  population  to  begin  with 
of  nearly   4,000.000   people,   which  would 
place  us  among  the  list  of  the  first  countries 
of  the  world.    (Hear,  hear.)    It  would  tend 
to  strengthen  our  securities    both  here  and 
in  the  Mother  Country.  Instead  of  our  stocks 
and  our  bonds  being  quoted  as  if  by  accident 
on  the   Stock   Exchange  in   London,   they 
would  be  looked  for  daily,  and  sought  after. 
It  would  give  us  an   increased  market   for 
our  produce  and   our  manufactures,  and   it 
would    tend    more    than    anything   else   to 
cause  a  tide  of  emigration  to  flow  to   our 
shores.     (Hear,  hear.)     Now  the  emigrant 
in  coming  to  America  is  prcplexed  to  know 
to  which  of  the  different  provinces  he  shall 
go,  and  when  he  speaks  of  going  to  America, 
the  only  place  he   thinks  of  is   Now  York. 


It  would  create  a  daily  line  of  steamships 
from  the  different  points  of  Europe  to  Halifax, 
the  nearest  point  and  shortest  sea  voyage 
to   this   country — and    with  the    Intercolo- 
nial Railway  to  bring  the  emigrant  directly 
through  to  Canada,  who  will   say  that  we 
shall  not  have  a  tide  of  emigration  to  our 
shores  such   as  we  can  scarcely  imagine  ? 
The  only  emigration  we  now  have  is    that 
induced  to  come  by  friends  who  have  made 
this  country  a  home  and  have  prospered. 
These,  sir,  are  the  reasons,  from  a  political 
point  of  view,  why  I  support  the  resolutions 
now  in  your  hand.     And,    sir,  in  speaking 
in  a  commercial  sense,  and  as  a  commercial 
man,   they   shall   also    have    my   full   and 
hearty  support.     (Hear,    hear.)     Does  any 
one  pretend  to  say  that  by  the  addition  of 
aearly  a   million    of  inhabitants    to    these 
provinces,   a  thrifty  ancl  intelligent  people, 
that  this  country  will  not  be  made  more 
prosperous?      Does    any    one    pretend    to 
say,  that  by  taking  away  the  barriers  that 
exist    to   trade,   with   a   million  of  people 
living  close  alongside  of  us,  that  this  country 
will  not  be  advanced  ?     Will  we  not  have 
largely-increased  markets  for  our  manufac- 
tures  when  those  hostile   tariffs  that  now 
meet    us   at   every   port   in    the    Maritime 
Provinces,  restricting  our  trade  with  them, 
are    removed  ?     Will  we   not  have  an  in- 
creased market    for  our  produce  when  we 
are   linked   together   by   the    Intercolonial 
Railroad,    and    when   a    free    interchange 
of  all   our   commodities   exists  ?     Can    we 
remain,  as  at  present,  without  any  highway 
of  our  own  to  the   Atlantic,  for  ingress  or 
egress,  for  five  months  of  the  year  ?     (Hear, 
hear.)  When  we  see  the  hostility  existing 
towards  us,  and  forcibly  shown   towards  us, 
by  the  press,  the  people,  and  the  Govern- 
ment of  the  United  States,  by  the  enforce- 
ment of  the  obnoxious  passport  system,  by 
the  notice  of  the  abrogation  of  the  Recipro- 
city treaty,  by  the  annulling  of  the  bonding 
system,  by  the  notice  given  to   the   Govern- 
ment   of    Great    Pritain    that    the    treaty 
regarding  armed  vessels  on   our  lakes  is   to 
be  done  away  with — when  our  farmers  can- 
not send  their  produce   for  five   months  of 
the  year  to  a  market;  when  our  merchants, 
for  the  sj^me  period,  cannot  get  their  stocks 
of  merchandise  for  the  supply  of  the   wants 
of  the    country ;  when    wo    are   dependent 
on   the   generosity    of    a    foreign     country 
even  for  the  passage  of  our  mails  to  Old 
England — when  that  is  our  position,  shall  it 
be   said   that   this   union   with  the  Lower 


817 


Provinces  is  not  desirable,  and  that  we  shall 
not,  as  soon  as  possible,  have  a  railroad 
across  our  territory  to  the  Atlantic  seaboard, 
to  Halifax,  one  of  the  best  harbors  in  the 
world?  Shall  we  be  indebted, be  subservient 
to,  be  at  the  mercy  of  a  foreign  country  for 
our  very  existence  ?  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir,  shall 
we  remain  dependent  upon  that  country  for 
all  these  things,  or  shall  we  not  rather  put 
our  own  shoulders  to  the  wheel,  throwing 
off  our  supineness  and  inertia,  and  by 
building  the  Intercolonial  Rail^vay,  provide 
an  outlet  for  ourselves ?  (Hear,  hear.)  And 
simultaneously  with  the  construction  of  that 
great  work,  I  hold  that  for  the  benefit  of 
the  commercial  interests  of  the  country  we 
ought  to  enlarge  and  deepen  our  canals. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  desire  now  to  read  a 
Minute  of  the  Executive  Council,  issued  by 
the  Sandfield  Macdonald-Dorion  G-ov- 
ernment,  under  date  19th  February,  186 i. 
It  is  as  follows  : — 

Although  no  formal  action,  indicative  of  the 
strength  of  the  party  hostile  to  the  continuance 
of  the  Reciprocity  treaty,  has  yet  taken  place, 
information  of  an  authentic  character,  as  to  the 
opinions  and  purposes  of  influential  public  men 
in  the  United  States,  has  forced  upon  the  com- 
mittee the  conviction  that  there  is  i  umineut  dan- 
ger of  its  speedy  abrogation,  unless  prompt  and 
vigorous  steps  be  taken  by  Her  Majesty's  Im 
perial  advisers  to  avert  v.'hat  would  be  generally 
regarded  by  the  people  of  Canada  as  a  great 
calamity. 

And  in  another  place  it  is  stated  : — 

Under  the  beneficent  operation  of  the  system 
of  self-government,  which  the  later  policy  of  the 
Mother  Country  ha^  accorded  to  Canada,  in  com- 
mon with  the  other  colonies  possessing  represent- 
ative institutions,  combined  with  the  advantages 
secured  by  the  Reciprocity  treaty  of  an  unre- 
stricted commerce  with  our  nearest  neighbors  in 
the  natural  productions  of  the  two  countries,  all 
agitation  for  organic  changes  has  ceased,  all 
dissatisfaction  with  the  existing  political  relations 
of  the  province  has  wholly  disappeared. 

From  this  Minute  it  appears  to  have  been 
the  opinion  of  the  Sandfield  Macdon- 
ald-Dorion Government  that  the  abroga- 
tion of  the  Reciprocity  treaty  would  pro- 
bably be  a  great  calamity  to  this  coun- 
try. But  I  am  not  of  that  opinion,  and 
I  believe  that  the  people  of  this  country 
will  never  be  so  reduced  as  to  go  on 
their  knees  to  pray  the  Q-overnment  of  the 
United  States  to  continue  the  treaty. 
(Hear,  heur.)  Indeed,  for  the  past  year  or 
two,  in  consequence  of  the  difference  in  the 
104 


currency  between  the  two  countries,  we  have 
felt  almost  as  though  that  treaty  had  been 
put  an  end  to  already.  In  consequence  of 
the  state  of  the  currency,  many  of  the  best 
interests  of  tliis  country  have  been  injured, 
the  mining  interest  of  the  province  has  been 
put  a  stop  to,  and  the  lumbering  interest,  one 
of  the  most  important  of  our  many  important 
interests,  crippled  and  paralysed.  (Hear.) 
What  much  greater  injury  can  befall  us, 
by  the  abrogation  of  the  Reciprocity  treaty, 
than  that  we  now  suffer  through  the  de- 
rangement of  the  currency  ?  Instead  of 
the  repeal  of  the  Reciprocity  treaty  being 
a  great  calamity,  it  will  lead  to  an  agitation 
for  oro-anic  changes  which  cannot  fail  to  be 
of  the  greatest  advantages  to  the  future 
prosperity  of  the  country.  For  my  part  I  do 
not  at  all  like  the  idea  of  a  document  of  that 
kind,  emanating  from  our  Canadian  G-overn- 
ment,  falling  into  the  hands  of  the  American 
people,  and  leading  them  to  believe  that 
in  our  estimation  the  repeal  by  them  of  the 
Reciprocity  treaty  would  be  calamitous  to 
this  country.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  repeat  that 
I  do  not  believe  that  the  abrogation  of  that 
treaty  will  eventually  be  detrimental  to  our 
interests.  It  is  true  that  we  may  suffer  for 
four  or  five  years,  and  suffer  greatly,  but  we 
will  be  thrown  upon  our  own  resources,  and 
ultimately  become  strong  and  self-reliant. 
Our  merchants  will  bo  longer  be  denied  an 
outlet  to  the  ocean  during  five  or  six  months 
in  the  year,  except  by  the  favor  or  forbearance 
of  our  Yankee  neighbors.  Let  us  put  our 
hands  into  our  pockets  to  build  this  Inter- 
colonial Railway,  and  we  will  be  opening  a 
way  to  the  ocean  to  our  merchants  and  our 
farmers  for  shipping  their  products  over 
their  own  territory.  And  when  we  are  in 
that  position,  we  shall  be  able  to  say  to  the 
people  of  the  United  States — "  You  shall  no 
longer  be  allowed  to  participate  in  the  bene- 
fits of  our  fisheries — we  will  close  the  naviga- 
tion of  our  canals  against  you — and  we  will 
cease  to  permit,  without  the  payment  of  a 
heavy  duty,  the  importation  into  this  country 
of  your  coarse  grains  for  the  supply  of  our 
distillers  and  brewers.'*  And,  sir,  when  it  is 
stated  that  the  importations  of  these  grains 
have  amounted  to  nearly  two  millions  of 
bushels  annually,  it  will  be  seen  that  after 
all  the  reciprocity  is  not  altogether  on  one 
side.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  think  that  they  will 
then  acknowledge  it  will  be  better  for  them 
to  be  on  more  friendly  terms  with  this  pro- 
vince, seeing  that  we  control  the  navigation 
of  the  Welland  and  St.  Lawrence  canals,  the 


818 


natural    outlet    for    the    products    of    the 
Western  States,  which  in  18(33  amounted  to 
the  enormous  quautity  of  five  hundred  atd 
twenty  million  bushels  of  grain — they  will 
be  dependent  upon  us,  instead  of  our  relying 
upon  them.  Compared  with  the  St.  Lawrence 
navigation  the  Erie  canal  is  but  a  ditch,  and 
it  is  closed  by  the  frost  earlier  in  the  season 
than  our  lake  and  river  navigation.      When 
all  these    advantages    which  we   enjoy    are 
considered,  the  people  of  the  United   States 
will  see  how  much  better  it  is  to  live  en  terms 
of  friendship  and  amity  with  us,  instead  of, 
to  use  a  vuljiar  but  forcible  phrase,  "  cutting 
off  their   nose  to  spite  their  face."     (Hear, 
hear.)     V*'ith  regard  to  the  proposed  resolu- 
tions, I  stated  at  the  ouiset  that  there  were 
portions  of  the  schome  to  which  I  objected, 
and  i  may  now,  sir,  be  allowed   briefly  to 
advert  to  them.     I  would  prefer   that  the 
wholepowerwas  coucentrated  under  one  head 
by  a  i^egisktive  union,  rather  than  a  Federal 
union.   I  fear  that  the  machineiy  will  be  com- 
plex, and  that  we  will  find,  under  the  proposed 
system,  that  the  expenses  of  the  Grovernment 
will  be  much   greater  than  if  we  had  one 
General  Government  without  these  additions 
of  local  legislatures  for  each  of  the  provinces. 
(Hear,  hoar.)     But  I  am  happy  to  say  that 
the  proposed  Federal  system  is  not  a  reflex 
of  the  old  Federal  union  of  the  United  States. 
Notwithiitauding  some  honorable  gentlemen 
have   praised   the  federal   system    in    the 
States  as  worthy  of  imitation,  ?till   I   think 
our  proposed  system  much  to  be   preferred. 
It  difiers  iu  this — the  United  States  Federal 
system  was  formed  from  a  number  of  sov- 
ereign states,  with  sovereign  powers,   dele- 
gating to  a  central  power  just  as  much  or  as 
little  of  their  power  as  they  chose  j  thereby 
the  doctrine  of   stute   rights    obtained,  and, 
as  we  have  seen  within  the  last  four  years, 
has  been  the  cause  of  bloodshed  and   civil 
war,  it  may  be  to  the  probable  destruction  of 
that  Federal  union.      Our  case  is  exactly  the 
reverse    Inttead  of  the  Central  Government 
receiving  its  power  from  the  diflerent  pro- 
vinces, it  gives  to   those   provinces  just    as 
much  or  as  little  as  it  chooses.     Hear  what 
the  45th  rcsolutiuu  says — "  In  regard  to  all 
subjects    in    which  jurisdiction    belongs    to 
both  the  general  and   local  legi^^latures,  the 
laws  ol  the  General  Parliament  shall  control 
and  supersede  those    made  by    the  local  le- 
gislatures,  and  the    latter   shall    be  void  m> 
far  as  inconsistent  with   the  former."     Thii 
places  the  whole  control  in  the  hands  of  the 


General  Government,  making  the  union  as 
nearly    legislative  as   the   circumstances   of 
the  various  provinces  would  admit.  So  much 
is  this  the  case  that  the   hon.    member    for 
Hochelaga   fears    that    it  would  eventually 
result   in    a  legislative  union — a   re.^ult  to 
my  mind  most  devoutly  to  be  desired.  (Heftr, 
hear.)     There  are  two  or  three  more  of  the 
points  of  the   resolutions   to   which  I  have 
objection.     The  public  lands  are  placed  at 
the  disposal  of  the  local   legislatures;  immi- 
gration also  is  in  the  hands  of  the   local   le- 
gislatures, and  the  scacoast  fisheries   are  in 
the  hands  of  the  local  legislatures.     These 
are  matters  common  to  the  whole,  and  should, 
for  many  reasons,  be  under  the  control  of  the 
General  Government.  These  various  interests, 
however,  are  all  covered  by  the  45th  resolu- 
tion of  the   Conference   which  I   have  just 
read,   and  which   declares   that   when    con- 
sistent  with    the    welfare    of    the  General 
Government,  their  control  will  be  taken  from 
the  local  legislatures.  (Hear, hear.)    I  have, 
as  briefly  as  possible,  shewn  that  in  my  opinion , 
in  our  political  and  our  commercial  relations 
we  would  be  benefited  by  the  union  of  Canada 
with   the  Maritime  Provinces.     I  have  also 
adverted   briefly   to   the  objections  which  I 
bold  to  the  proposed   mode   of  carrying  out 
the  union.     I  shall  now  endeavor  to  show 
that  as  a  means  of  defence  it  is  highly  desir- 
able.    If  there  is  one  thing  more  desirable 
than  another,  it  is  to  have  the  whole  forces 
of  the  country  under   one  governing  power. 
How  might  it  fare  with  us,  in  case  of  war  or 
invasion,    with    the    provinces    disunited  ? 
Objections  could  now  be  made  against  the 
withdrawal  of  a  portion  of  the  militia  from 
one    province    to    the    others,    without    the 
consent  of  the  government  of  that  province, 
and   before  they  could  be  brought  into  the 
field,  valuable  time  would  be  lust,  rod  tapeism 
would  stand  in  the  way,  and  the  delay  might 
be  dangerous.  (Hear,  hear.)  By  being  united 
and  controlled  under  one  head,  troops  could 
be    thrown   upo;i    any    point  attacked,  at  a 
moment's  notice.  Objections  have  been  made 
by  hon.  gentlemen   to  any  expenditure   for 
the  purpose  of  building  lortificatioLS,  at  pro- 
per points,   for  the  defence  ol'  the  country  ; 
but  1  am  satisfied  there  is  no  rea.-onablc  sum 
that  may    be  required   that    will  be  grudged 
by  the  people  of  Canada;  for  if  tlure  is  any 
purpose  for  which  they  will  contribute  cheer- 
iully,  it  is  for  the  defence  of  their  country, 
and  to  continue  the  connection  and  ceui'iut 
the  tie  that  biudv  us  to  the  Mother  Country. 


819 


(Hear,  hear.)  It  has  been  also  stated  that 
we  could  not  defend  ourselves  against  an 
overwhelming  power  such  as  the  United 
States.  Time  was  when  we  did  defend  our- 
selves, and  that  succtssfully  ;  and  if  the  time 
should  ever  come  again,  the  people  of  Canada 
and  of  the  Maritime  Provinces  will  not  be 
found  backward  to  defend  everything  they 
h  Id  sacred  and  most  dear.  (Hear,  hear.)  It 
has  also,  been  said  that  we  should  keep  a 
strict  neutrality  J  in  fact  that  our  neutrality 
should  be  guaranteed  by  England,  France 
and  the  United  Siates,  in  case  war  should 
unfortunaiely  take  place  between  them.  But 
such  an  idea  is  too  absurd  to  be  considered 
for  a  moment.  Would  the  people  of  this 
country  submit  to  such  an  arrangement  even 
if  attempted  to  be  carried  out  ?  W^ould  we 
allow  England,  if  forced  to  go  to  war  with 
the  United  States,  want  the  assistance  of  her 
Canadian  subjects  ?  Could  we  restrain  the 
people  of  Canada  from  doing  their  duty,  when 
they  saw  the  Mother  Country  battling  with 
her  foos  ?  If  I  thought  such  would  be  the 
case,  I  should  deny  my  country,  for  we  should 
be  held  up  to  the  scorn  and  derision  of  the 
world.  (Hi'.ar,  hear.)  On  the  question  of  our 
defences,  I  desire  to  read  an  extract  from  the 
report  of  Col.  Jervois,  the  abh  engineer 
sent  out  to  report  upon  the  practicability  of 
defending   Canada   against  attack  :  — 

The  question  appears  lobe  whether  the  British 
force  now  in  Canada  shall  be  withdrawn  in  order 
to  avoid  the  risk  of  its  defeat,  or  whether  the 
necessary  measure  shall  be  taken  to  enable  that 
force  to  be  of  use  for  the  defe  'ce  of  the  country. 
The  sum  required  for  the  construction  of  the 
proposed  works  and  armaments  at  Montreal  and 
Quebec  would  only  be  about  one  year's  expense 
of  the  regular  force  we  now  maintain  in  Canada. 
It  is  a  delusion  to  suppose  that  force  can  be  of 
any  use  for  the  defence  of  the  country,  without 
fortifications  to  compensate  for  the  comparative 
smallness  of  its  numbers.  Even  when  aided  by 
the  whole  of  the  local  militia  that  could  at  pre- 
sent be  made  available,  it  would,  in  the  event 
of  war,  be  obli^jed  to  retreat  before  the  superior 
numbers  by  which  it  would  be  attacked,  and  it 
would  be  fortunate  if  it  succeeded  in  embarking  at 
Quebec,  and  putting  to  sea  without  serious  defeat. 
On  the  other  hand,  if  the  works  now  recom- 
menied  be  constructed,  the  vital  points  of  the 
country  could  be  defended,  and  the  regular  army 
would  Ijecome  a  nucleus  and  support,  round 
which  the  people  of  Canada  would  rally  to  resist 
aggression,  and  to  preserve  that  connection  with 
the  Mother  Country  which  their  loyalty,  their 
interests,  and  their  love  of  true  freedom  alike 
make  them  desirous  to  maintain. 

Such  is  the  report  of  Col.  Jervois,  one  of 


the  ablest  men  on  those  subjects  in  the  En- 
glish service,  ani  I  think  it  can  with  greater 
reason  be  relied  upon  than  all  the  mere  asser- 
tions of  hon.  members,  who  are  not  supposed 
to  know  much,  if  anything  at  all,  upon  a  sub- 
ject which  they  have  never  ma<le  a  .study,  and 
upon  which  they  have  had  no  experience 
whatever.  (Hear,  hear.)  Sir  J.  Walsh 
also,  a  few  days  since,  in  a  speech  upon  an 
Address  to  Her  Majesty  for  papers  and  cor- 
responuence  with  the  American  Uovernment 
in  relation  to  the  Reciprocity  treaty,  and  the 
notice  for  a  finality  of  the  treaty  restricting 
the  number  of  armed  steamers  upon  our 
inland  waters,  spoke  thus  : — 

There  might  be  some  hon.  gentlemen  who 
would  contemplate,  without  shame  or  regret, 
the  total  and  entire  severance  of  the  connection 
between  England  and  Canada,  and  who  would 
say  that  this  country  would  get  rid  thereby  of  a 
source  of  much  embarrassment,  expense  and 
trouble.  He  would,  however,  tell  those  hon. 
gentlemen  that  Great  Britain  could  not,  if  she 
would,  cut  Canada  adrift.  As  long  as  Canada 
retained  her  desire  to  be  connected  with  this 
country — as  long  as  Canada  preserved  her  spirit 
and  her  resolution  to  be  independent  of  America, 
so  long  would  England  be  bound  by  her  honor, 
by  her  interests,  and  by  every  motive  that  could 
instigate  a  generous  or  patriotic  nation,  to  sus- 
tain, protect  and  vindicate  .he  rights  of  Canada, 
and  to  guard  her,  whether  as  an  ally  or  a  depen- 
dency, against  the  aggressions  of  the  United 
States ;  it  was  impossible  for  England  to  shrink 
from  the  obligation.  The  day  might  come  when 
the  Chancellor  of  the  Exchequer  would  come  down, 
and  in  happy  phase  and  uth  mellifluous  eloquence, 
congratulate  the  House  upon  having  emancipated 
itself  from  a  source  of  military  expenditure.  He 
might  felicitate  the  House  that  Birmingham  was 
sending  admirably  finished  Armstrong  and  Whit- 
worth  guns  to  arm  the  new  naval  forces  of  America 
on  the  Canadian  lakes.  He  might  congratulate  the 
House  that  Birmingham  was  sending  out  a  plenti- 
ful supply  of  fetters  and  handcuffs  to  be  used  in 
coercing  the  refractory  Americans.  The  right 
hon.  gentleman  might,  at  the  same  time,  be  able 
to  congratulate  the  House  upon  a  vast  amount 
of  commercial  prosperity,  snd  announce  that  he 
was  able  to  reduce  the  income  tax  a  penny  or  two 
pence  on  the  pound.  But  if  ever  that  day  should 
come,  and  if  ever  that  speech  were  made, 
the  whole  world  would  observe  that  the  old 
English  oak  was  not  only  withered  in  its  limbs, 
but^was  rotten  at  its  heart.  There  was,  in  fact, 
no  escape  from  the  obligation  which  bound  Great 
Britain,  Py  every  tie  of  national  honor  and  inter- 
est, to  maintain  and  defend  Canada.  The  ques- 
tion was  not  one  merely  between  England  and 
Canada,  but  was  one  between  England  and  the 
United  States.  It  appeared  to  him  that  the  notice 
given  by  the  .American  Government  was  an  act 
of  such  unmistakable  hostility,  that  it  almost 


820 


amounted  to  a  declaration  of  ■n'ar,  and  at  a  much 
earlier  period  of  our  history,  it  would  have  been 
so  regarded. 

When  such  views  are  held  in  England,  when 
so  strong  a  desire  is  manifested  in  Canada  to 
maintain  our  connectijn  with  England,  and 
to  remain  under  the  sheltering  folds  of  that 
flag  we  love  so  well,  shall  it  be  said  that  we 
have  cot  the  spirit  left  to  defend  ourselres  ? 
I  know,  sir,  that  the  people  of  Canada  will 
not  be  backward,  should  ever  that  time  arrive. 
I  feel  that  there  is  some  of  the  spirit  of  1812 
still  left  among  us.  I  am  convinced  that  the 
blood  of  those  men  who  left  the  United 
States,  when  they  gained  their  independence, 
and  who  gave  up  all  in  order  to  live  under  the 
protection  of  the  laws  of  Old  England — the 
blood  of  those  old  U.  E.  Loyalists,  I  say,  still 
courses  through  our  veins.  (Hear.)  Sir,  I  trust 
that  this  union  may  be  consummated,  in  order 
that  British  power  on  this  continent  may  be 
consolidated,  our  connection  with  the  Mother 
Country  cemented  and  strengthened,  and  that 
under  this  union  this  country  may  be  made 
a  happy  home  for  hundreds  of  thousands  of 
emigrants  from  the  Mother  Country — a  happy 
and  contented  home  for  all  now  living  here, 
and  for  our  children  and  children's  children 
for  generations  to  come.  (Hear,  hear,  and 
cheers.'^ 

Mr.  CARTWRIGHT,  said— Mr.  Speak- 
er, the  turn  which  this  debate  has  assumed 
of  late  is  somewhat  remarkable.  Up  to  a 
veiy  recent  period,  hon.  gentlemen  opposite 
have  dwelt  chiefly  on  the  extreme — I  think 
they  even  said  the  indecent — haste  with 
which  this  project  has  been  pushed  forward. 
They  have  asserted  that  this  scheme  was  the 
sole,  the  only  bond  of  union  between  the 
members  of  the  present  Ministry,  and  fur- 
ther, that  so  rash,  so  inconsiderate  was  their 
eagerness  to  cff"ect  theii  end  at  any  cost, 
that  they  have  seriously  compromised  our 
interests  i>y  undue  concessions  to  the  remain- 
ing provinces,  and  notably  to  Newfoundland 
and  New  Brunswick.  Latterly,  however, 
the  question  has  assumed  a  new  and  diff"erent 
phase.  It  has  been  discovered  that  so  far 
from  being  a  bond  of  union,  the  project  of 
Conl'ederation  is  a  mere  pretext,  a  blind  to 
cover  their  predetermination  to  maintain 
their  position  at  all  hazards.  Now,  sir,  pass- 
ing over  the  obvious  inconsistency  of  these 
contradictory  accusations,  passing  over  the 
absurdity  of  calling  the  Confederation  thv; 
sole  bond  of  union,  and  yet  a  sham  to  cover 
that  union,  I  shall  have  a  few  words  to  say 
as  to  the  reasons  which  induced  me,  in  com- 


mon with  a  great  majority  of  this  House, 
and  I  believe  with  a  great  majority  of  the 
people  of  this  country,  to  support  honorable 
gentlemen  on  the  Treasury  benches,  not  only 
as  regards  the  project  we  are  now  discuss- 
ing, but  as  to  their  general  policy  in 
effecting  the  extraordinary  fusion  of  parties 
which  took  place  last  summer.  Sir, 
it  is  idle  to  talk  of  that  step  as  if  those 
honorable  gentlemen  were  alone  responsible 
for  their  conduct  on  that  occasion.  What 
they  did  was  done  with  the  full  know- 
ledge and  consent  of  their  supporters,  and 
reflects  on  our  honor,  if  wrong,  quite  as 
much  as  on  tlieirs.  But,  sir,  I  am  very  far 
indeed  from  admitting  that  we  were  wrong. 
I  think  the  reasons  which  influenced  us 
then  were  strong  CLOUgh  to  justify  us  fully; 
those  reasons  are  tenfold  stronger  now.  To 
understand  them,  Mr.  Speaker,  we  need 
only  glance  at  the  parliamentary  history  of 
the  last  few  years,  and  then  ask  ourselves 
whether  any  langua_L,e  is  too  strong,  any 
sacrifice  too  great,  to  put  an  end  to  the  state 
of  things  which  prevailed  throughout  that 
period.  But  first,  sir,  let  me  pause  to  deal 
with  the  charge  of  undue  haste.  Doubtless 
the  rapidity  with  which  these  negotiations 
have  advanced  was  as  remarkable  as  it  was 
unexpected.  I  believe  there  is  hardly  au 
instance  in  which  a  political  project  of  such 
magnitude  and  delicacy  has  made  such 
astonishing  progress  in  so  short  a  time ;  and 
so  far  from  holding  it  an  objection,  so  far 
from  allowing  that  this  is  any  evidence  that  the 
country  has  been  taken  by  surprise  in  assenting 
to  this  scheme,  I  hold  that  it  is,  on  the  con- 
trary, the  best  possible  omeu  of  its  ultimate 
success,  no  matter  what  temporary  checks  it 
may  encounter,  because  it  shows  conclusively 
not  only  how  zealously  and  honestly  Minis- 
ters have  devoted  themselves  to  the  task  of 
carrying  it  into  efi"ect,  but,  which  I  think  of 
even  more  importance,  because  it  proves 
how  powerfully  the  events  of  the  last  few 
years  have  contributed  to  mature  men's 
views  on  this  subject,  and  shows  that,  so  far 
as  this  province  is  concerned,  my  hunorable 
friends  are  but  aiding  to  carry  out  a  foregone 
conclusion — a  conclusion  long  since  arrived 
at  by  every  man  among  us  who  desires  to 
maintain  our  independence  or  our  connection 
with  the  British  Crown ;  that  in  this,  or 
some  such  scheme  as  this,  lies  our  best,  if 
not  our  only  hope  of  escaping  absorption 
into  the  great  republic  which  adjoins  us. 
f^ir,  this  is  an  argument  which  perhaps  has 
more  weight  with  me  than  with  some  hon. 


sn 


gentlemen  before  me.     It  may  be  that  there 
are  some  even  here  who  are  secretly  dazzled 
by  the  magnificent  vision,  so  dear  to  Ameri- 
can  statesmen,  of  an    empire   which    shall 
spread    irom    sea    to   sea,    and  unite  every 
scattered  state  and  province  from  the  Gulf 
of  Mexico  to  Hudson's  Bay  under  one  law 
and  one  rule.     Sir,   I  can    understand  the 
fascination  which  such  an  idea  can  exercise; 
I    can    even    sympathise   with    it    to    some 
extent ;  and  it  is  just  because  I  do  under- 
stand   it  that    I    am    prepared    to    oppose 
it  to   the    utmost,    believing    that    in    the 
long    run    the    establishment  of   a    power 
so  gigantic    could    not    fail  to  be   fraught 
with    the     greatest    misfortunes    to    those 
who  might  live  under  it,  if  not  to  the  whole 
human   race.     And  now,   sir,   to   return  to 
my   subject,  I   would    like  to  take  a  rapid 
glance  at  the  perils  from  which  we  have  but 
lately   escaped ;    and    in    so    doing,    I  shall 
speak  only  of  those  of  which  I  have  myself 
been,  cognizant   in    my   own   parliameutary 
career,    brief   though   it   is ;     and  I  appeal 
again  to  the  consciousness  of  every  honor- 
able gentleman,  whether  there  is  anything 
in  the  events  of  the  past  two  sessions  of 
which  we   have  much  reason  to  feel  proud, 
save,  perhaps,  their   closing  scene  ?     What 
was  our  position,  Mr.  Speaker  •  what  was 
that  position  which   some  honorable  gentle- 
men have  the  hardihood  to  affect  to  regret  ? 
Two  di,«solutions    granted    (though   in    the 
latter  case  the  Royal    prerogative  was  not 
exercised);  three  changes  of  Ministry  within 
the  space  of  a  single  twelvemonth ;  the  fate 
of  cabinets  dependant  on  the  vote  of  a  single 
capricious  or  unprincipled  individual,  in  a 
House  of  130  members  ;   a  deficient  revenue 
and  a  sinking  credit ;  all  useful  le2;islation  at 
a  stand-still — these, 'sir,   were  circumstances 
which  might  well  have  filled  us  with  appre- 
hension,   had   they    occurred    in   a   time  of 
profound    peace  ;    but   which,  sir,   coming, 
as    they   did,    at   a    period    when    we    are 
menaced    with    the    gravest    danger    which 
can  befall  a  free  people,  would  have  argued 
us  deaf  aud  blind  to  every  lesson  which  the 
misiortuues  of  our  neighbors  ought  to  teach 
us,  had  we  not  embraced   the  very  earliest 
opportunity  to  extricate  ourselves  from  such 
a  position  ;  and  the  wonder  to  me  is  not  that 
our  statesmen  should  have  shown  themselves 
willing  to  bury  their  private  grudges  and 
paltry  personal  animusities,  but  rather  that 
we  could  have   been    infatuated  enough  to 
permit  such  a  state  of  things  to  continue 


at  such  a  crisis  for  two  whole  years.     It  is 
not  for  me  to  say  who   has  been   mo^t  to 
blame  in  the  past.     I  judire  no  one,  still  less 
do  I  undertake  to  defend  them  ;  but  I  speak 
of  acts  patent  and  known  to  all,  when  I  say 
that  the  position  of  parties  in  this  province, 
the     bitterness     and     virulence     of    party 
feeling,  and   the   narrowness  and   acrimony 
to  which  those  feelings  gave  rise,  were  de- 
grading and  demoralizing  us  all  to  a  degree 
which  it  is  not  pleasant  to  look  back  upon 
even  now.     And  so  far  from  roga:  ding  the 
union  of  parties  which  has  taken  place  as  a 
political  misfortune  in  itself,  or  as  tending  to 
deprive  the  people  of  any  safeguard,  1  say 
that  it  was  of  the  greatest  importatce  to  our 
people  that  they  should  be  relieved,  if  only 
for  a  brief  period,  from  the  desperate  party 
struggles  in  which  they  have  been  engaged 
— that  a  lull  of  some  kind  should  be  afforded, 
that  they  should  have  some  opportunity  of 
considering  the  grave  dangers  which  encom- 
pass them,  some  chance  of  escaping  from  the 
state  of  practical  anarchy  into  which  they 
had  been  drifting.     It  is  to  their  credit,  Mr. 
Speaker,  and  to  the  credit  of  tliose  who 
control  the  press  of  this   country,  that  ever 
since  this  project  has  been  fairly   before  us 
a  very  marked  improvement  has  taken  place 
in    the  whole   tone  aud  temper   of   public 
discussion.      Of  the  press,  in   particu'ar,  I 
must  say  that  the  moment  they  wero  relieved 
from    the    necessity    of    supporting    party 
manoeuvres — the  moment  a  subject  of  suffi- 
cient importance  was  submitted  for  considera- 
tion, they  seem  to  have  risen  at  once  to  the 
level  of  the  subject,  and  to  have  abandoned 
all  those  unhappy  and  rancourous  personali- 
ties which,  in  times  past,  were  too  apt  to 
disfigure   their  pages.      Sir,  I   believe    the 
people    of    Canada    have    learned    a    lesson 
which  they  will  not  easily  forget.     I  believe 
that    henceforward  it  will  not   be  found  so 
easy   to   array   citizen   against  citizen,  race 
against  race,  as  it  has  been   heretofore.     I 
believe  our  people  have  discovered  that  men 
who  rise  to  be  the  heads  of  great  parties  are 
not  of  necessity  villains  and  scoundrels — that 
both  sides  may  have  great  political  principles 
to  maintain — that  the   words   Refurmer  and 
Revolutionist,     Conservati/e     and     Corrup- 
tionist,     are     not      absolutely     convertible 
terms,  and  that  men  who  have  givi'.u  up  the 
best  part  of    their  lives,  aud  sacrificed  too 
often,  the  best  part  of  their  fortunes   in  the 
service  of  their  country,  have  had  some  bet- 
ter and  higher  reasons  than  mere  love  of 


82« 


jobbery  and  intrigue  for  doing  so.  To  me, 
sir,  this  appears  a  matter  of  great  moment. 
It  is  only  too  notorious  bow  much  of  the 
misery  and  misfortune  which  has  be/alien 
the  United  States,  is  to  be  traced  to  the  sys- 
tematic degradation  of  their  public  men.  It 
is  well  for  us  that  the  matter  is  still  in  our 
own  power.  It  is  well  for  us  that  we  have 
still  the  choice  whether  we  will  have  states- 
men or  stump  orators  to  rule  over  us — 
whether  this  House  shall  maintain  its  hon- 
orable position  as  the  representatives  of  a 
free  people,  or  whether  it  shall  sink  into  a 
mere  mob  of  delegates,  the  nominees  of  cau- 
cuses and  of  wire-pullers.  It  is  still  in  our 
power  to  decide  whether  we  shall  secure  a 
fair  share  of  the  best  talent  we  possess  to 
carry  on  the  aflFairs  of  the  country,  or  whether 
we  will  ostracise  from  our  councils  every 
man  of  superior  ability,  education  or  intelli- 
gence— with  what  practical  results  we  need 
not  look  far  abroad  to  see ;  and  I  think, 
sir,  it  is  fast  becoming  apparent  that 
in  this,  as  in  other  matters,  the  people 
of  Canada  are  well  dispcsed  to  adhere 
to  the  traditions  of  their  British  ancestry. 
There  is  one  objection,  Mr.  Speaker,  which 
has  been  advanced  perpetually  throughout 
this  debate  by  some  hon.  gentlemen  who, 
while  utable  or  unwilling  to  show  any  valid 
reason  against  Confederation  in  itself,  pro- 
fess themselves  bitterly  scandalised  at  the 
political  combination  by  which  it  is  likely  to 
be  brought  about.  Now,  sir,  I  admit,  at 
once  that  there  is  a  prejudice,  a  just  and 
wholesome  prejudice,  against  all  coalitions  in 
the  abstract.  I  admit  that  that  prejudice  is 
especially  strong  in  the  minds  of  English- 
men, and  that,  in  point  of  fact,  a  coalition  is 
always  an  extreme  measure,  only  to  be  had 
resort  to  in  cases  of  extreme  emergency.  A 
coalition,  Mr.  Speaker,  may  be  a  very  base 
act,  but  it  may  also  be  a  very  noble  one.  It 
may  be  a  mere  conspiracy,  for  purposes  of 
revenge  or  plunder,  on  the  part  of  men  hating 
and  detesting  each  other  to  the  uttermost — 
or  it  may  be  an  honorabl«  sacrifice  of  private 
personal  enmity  before  the  pressure  of  over- 
whelming public  necessities,  to  escape  from 
great  danger  or  to  carry  a  great  object.  Sir, 
I  Bhall  not  insult  the  intelligence  of  the 
House  by  enquiring  whether  this  present 
existing  Coalition  has  proposed  to  itself  an 
object  of  sufficient  importance  to  warrant  its 
formation  Even  those  who  censure  the  de- 
tailsof  thisschenienioststrongly  are  fain  to  do 
homiige  to  the  grandeur  of  tlie  project,  and 


are  compelled  to  admit  that  a  union  which 
should  raise  tliis  country  from  the  position 
of  a  mere  province  to  that  of  a  distinct  nation, 
is  a  project  well  worthy  of  the  utmost  efforts 
of  our  statesmen.  To  determine  the  remain- 
ing question  whether  the  position  of  our 
affairs  were  so  critical  as  to  require  the 
utmost  energy  of  all  cur  leaders,  and  to 
justify  any  union  which  gave  a  rea.sonable 
hope  of  extricating  ourselves  from  our  diflS- 
culties,  I  must  again  revert  to  the  co  edition 
in  which  we  found  ourselves  during  the  last 
few  years,  and  I  ask  every  hon.  member  to 
answer  for  himself  whether  it  was  one  which 
it  gives  him  any  pleasure  to  look  back  upon  ? 
Was  it  pleasant  for  us,  Mr.  Speaker,  a 
young  country  without  one  penny  of  debt 
which  has  lOt  been  incurred  for  purposes  of 
public  utility — was  it  pleasant  for  us,  I  ask,  to 
find  our  revenue  yearly  outrunning  our  ex- 
penditure in  the  ratio  of  20,  30  or  even  40 
per  cent,  per  annum?  Was  it  pleasant  for 
us  to  know  that  some  of  our  ouce  busiest 
and  most  prosperous  cities  were  being  depo- 
pulated under  the  pressure  of  exorbitant 
taxation  ?  Was  it  pleasant  for  us,  inhabiting 
a  country  able  to  sustain  ten  times  its  present 
population,to find  capital  and  immigrants  alike 
fleeing  from  our  shores,  even  if  they  had  to 
take  refuge  in  a  land  desolated  by  civil  war? 
Was  it  pleasant  for  us,  sir,  the  only  colony 
of  England  which  has  ever  vindicated  its 
attachment  to  the  Empire  in  fair  fight,  to 
know  that  our  apathy  and  negligence  in 
taking  steps  fur  our  own  defence  was  fast 
making  us  the  byword  to  both  friend  and 
foe  ?  And  h.-stly,  Mr.  Speaker,  t  ask  was 
it  pleasant  for  us,  needing  and  knowing  that 
we  needed  a  strong  Government  above  all 
things,  one  which  should  maini^ain  a  firm 
and  steady  policy,  and  possess  the  £rood-will 
and  support  of  at  least  a  larne  majority  of 
our  people — I  say,  sir,  was  it  pleasant  for 
us  at  such  a  crisis  to  find  ourselves  the 
victims  of  a  mere  political- eee-saw — to  be 
sure  only  of  this  onefact,  that  whatever  course 
of  policy  was  adopted,  the  circumstance  that 
it  emanated  from  one  pnrty  would  cause  it 
to  be  viewed  with  jealousy  and  suspicion  by 
the  whole  remaining  moiety  of  the  nation  ? 
[  would  not  have  it  thought,  Mr.  Speaker, 
that  in  saying  this,  I  am  blind  to  the  difficul- 
ties with  which  our  statesmen  liavo  had  to 
struggle.  So  far  from  this  I  believe  that  it 
haH  been  quite  too  much  the  fashion  to 
undrrrale  them  in  times  past.  Wehavespoken 
of  them  as  if  it  were  the  easiest  task  in  the 


823 


world  to  bleu  d  together,  in  less  than  one  gen- 
eration, two  distinct  peoples — peoples  differ- 
ing from  one  another  in  race,  in  language,  in 
laws,  customs  and  religion — in  one  word,  in 
almost  every  point  in  which  it  is  possible  for 
men  of  European  origin,  and  professing  one 
common  Christianity,    to   differ  from    each 
other.     Sir,  this  could  never  have  been  an 
easy  task.      It  is   one  which  has  again   and 
again    baffled    the   ablest   statesmen   of  the 
most  powerful  monarchies  of  Europe  ;  and  I 
will  fjot  undertake  to  say  whether  it  is  ever 
capable  ot  complete   accomplishment.      Be 
that  as  it  may,  I  know   that  in  every  empire 
which  has  ever  existed,  from  the  English  to 
the  Roman,  which  has  held  different  races 
under  its  sway,  it  has  always   been   found 
necessary  to  make  large  allowances  for  dis- 
tinctive national   traits — has,  in   fact,  been 
found  necessary  to  introduce  in  some  measure 
the   Federal   element,  though   it  is    equally 
true  that  in  every  state  which   deserved  the 
name  of  an  empire,  the  supreme  authority 
of  the  central  puwer  in  all  that  concerns  the 
general  welfare  has  been  acknowledged  un- 
reservedly.    And,  sir,  it  is  just  because  this 
seems  to  have  been  effectual  in  all  essential 
points  in  the  scheme  now  before  us — because, 
while  resjrving  to  the  General  Government 
the  power  of  the  purse  and  the  sword,  it  accords 
the  amplest  defensive  powers  to  the  various 
local   bodies — because,    even    where    there 
may  be  some  conflict  of  jurisdiction  on  minor 
matters,  every  reasonable  precaution  seems 
to  have  been  taken  against  leaving  behind 
us    any   reversionary   legacies  of  sovereign 
state  rights  to    stir  up    strife    and    discord 
among  our  children.     For  all  these  reasons, 
I  say,  I  am  disposed  to  give  my  hearty  sup- 
port  to  the    scheme  as    a    whole,    without 
criticising    too    narrowly    the   innumerable 
details  wnich  it  must  inevitably  present  to 
attack.     All  I  hope  is  that  in  adjusting  our 
new    constitutions,    local    and    general,    we 
shall  not  allow  our  minds  to  be  warped  by 
antiouated    notions    of  the    dangers   which 
threaten    our    liberty.      No    fear  here,  Mr. 
Speaker,  for  many  a  day  to  come  at  least, 
of  perils  which  await  us  trom  the  tyranny  of 
hereditary  rulers,  or  the  ambition  of  aristo- 
cratic oligarchies.     No^  sir,  noj  and  while  it 
is  true  that  here    as    elsewhere,  there  are 
always   dangers  enough   to  retard  our   pro- 
gress,   I    think    that  every    true    reformer, 
every  real  frien  1  of  liberty  will  agree  with 
me   in  saying  that   if  we  must  erect  safe- 
guards, they  should  be  rather  for  the  security 


of   the    individual    than    of  the    mass,  and 
that  our    chiefest   care    must    be   to   train 
the   majority  to   respect   the   rights  of  the 
minority,  to    prevent    the    claims    of    the 
few    from    being    trampled    under    foot    by 
the  caprice   or  passion   of   the  many.     For 
myself,  sir,  I  own  frankly   I   prefer  British 
liberty  to  American  equality.     I  had  rather 
uphold  the   majesty    of  the    law   than   the 
majesty  nf  Judge  Lynch.      I   had  rather  be 
the  subject  of  an  hereditary  monarch,  who 
dare  not  enter  the  hut  of  the  poorest  peasant 
without  leave  had  and  obtained,  than  be  the 
free  and  sovereign  elector  of  an  uutocratic 
President,  whose  very  Minister  can  boast  the 
power  of  imprisoniog  one  man  in  New  York 
aud  another  in  St.  Louis  by  the  touching  of 
a  bell-wire  !      I  said,  sir,  that    there  were 
many  reasons  why  we  should  all  unite  in 
furthering  this  project.      It  is    not  merely 
because  of  the  barriers  to  material  progress 
which  it  will  remove — though  I  am  far  from 
undervaluing    their    importance  ;    it  is  not 
merely  because  of  the  higher  prizes  which 
it    will  throw  open  to  individu  il  ambition — 
though  I  do  not  aff"ect  to  despise  this  either  ; 
but  it  is  chiefly,  after  all,  because  I  believe  it 
will  be  fuund  to  have   the   most  beneficial 
results,    in    elevating    our    politics    and    in 
inspiring  our  people  with  those  feelings  of 
dignity    and   self-respect  which   lie    at  the 
b>.>ttom     of     all    real     national     greatness. 
Sir,    I    can    only    liken    cur    position    for 
some     time     past     to     that     of     a    youth 
who  has  been  allowed  to  take  possession  of 
his  inheritance  at  an  age  when  he  is  not  yet 
legally  responsible  for  his  actions.     I  do  not 
believe  that  such  a  position  is  good   either 
lor  a  nation  or  an  individual,  and  I  for  one 
rejoice  that  it  is  about  being  brought  to  a 
close.     There  were    several    other  subjects, 
Mr.   Speaker,   which   I    had   intended  to 
allude  to;  but  I   flnd   my  voice  is  still  too 
weak    to    allow  more  than  a  few  remarks. 
Still,  sir,  I  do  not  wish  to  sit  down  without 
saying  briefly   that  I  am  irlad   to  find  one 
lesson  at  least,  which  the  British  Constitu- 
tion  ought  to  teach  us,  is  beginning  to  be 
impressed  upon  our  people.     That  Constitu- 
tion,  Mr.  Speaker — though  we  have  not 
always  been  sufficiently  alive  to  the  fact — 
while  it  does  not  require   the  possession  of 
those     lofty,    impracticable    virtues    which 
most  republican    institutions   demand  fiom 
their  votaries,  does  nevertheless  presuppose 
a   reasonable  amount    of   discretion   at  the 
hands  of  those  who  are  intrusted  with  the 


824 


carrying  out  of  its  details.    And,  sir,  though 
it  is  true  that  it  docs  recognise  the  calm,  de- 
liberate, just  decision  of  the  majority — and 
the  calm   and  deliberate  decision  is  almost 
always  just — as  final  in    the   last   resoit,  it 
does  still  so  abound  with   safeguards — with 
latent    cheeks    of   all    kinds — checks  estab- 
lished, many  of  them,  more  by  custom  and 
usa^e  than  by  positive  law — as  to  make  it 
all    but  impossible  for   any  majority,   how- 
ever  strong,    to    perpetrate  any    gross  act 
of  injustice  on  a  minority,  so  long  as  that 
minority   could    command    but   one  or  two 
resolute  rejiresentatives  on  the  floor  of  Par- 
liament.    Sir,   it  is  impossible  not  to  feel 
that  it  is  in  a  very  great  degree  to  this  fact, 
to    the    iistinetive   sense    of    the    inherent 
powers   of  self-defence  which   our   customs 
give  to  the  weak  against  the  strong — to  the 
conviction  that  to  drive  any  party  to  despair 
would   create  an  inevitable  dead-lock — that 
England  owes  it  that  she  has  contrived  to 
administer  her  affairs  for  near  two  hundred 
years  witliout  any  overt  acts  of   tyranny  or 
one  direct  collision  or  irregular  interferenee 
with    the    ordinary  course    of  law.      Sir,  I 
rcjuice  to  see  that  we  will  continue  to  adhere 
to  a  system  which  has  borne  such  good  fruit, 
as  a  whole,  in  the  parent  land;  and  I  tliink 
the  reflection  how  difficult,  if  not  how  dan- 
gerous, it  is  to  oppress  a  determined  minority 
under  such  a  system,  may  serve  to  calm  the 
fears    of    those    hon  ruble    gentlemen    who 
dread    the    loss  of  local    rights    and  privi- 
leges  at  the    hands   of  the    stronger  race. 
For  the  rt'st,  Mr.  Speaker,  though  I  will 
venture  U;)0u  no  predictions — though  I  know 
we    must    expect    many    difficulties,    many 
checks  before  we  can  hope  to  bring  so  great 
an  enterprise  to  a  successful  issue — I  trust  I 
may  be    p.irdoned    for   expressing  my   con- 
viction that  the  lnyalty  and  fidelity  of  the 
early  settlers  of  this  country — and  I  speak 
here  v\ithout  regard  to  any  special  nation- 
ality— is   destined   to   be   rewarded    in    the 
way  in  which  they  would  most  have  desired 
to  s^ee  it  r^iwarded  if  they  had    lived  to  see 
this  day,  by  the  establishment  of  a  kingdom 
on  the  banks  of  the   St.   Lawrence,   which, 
without   binding   itself  dowu   to    a   slavish 
adhtrencc  to  the  customs  of  the  old  world, 
would  yet  cherish  and  preserve   those  time- 
honored  associations  our  American  neighbors 
have  SCO!,   fit  so    recklessly    to    cast    away. 
Sir,   our    fdrcfathers    may   have    had    their 
faults ;  tut  still,  in  spite  of  all,  I  dare  afiirm 
that  the  lirave,  self-sacrificing  spirit  they  dis- 


played— their  manful  struggle  against  heavy 
odds — and   last,  but  not  IciSt,  the  patient, 
law-abiding   spirit  which   has  ever  induced 
them    to  prefer  reform  to   revolution,  even 
when  engaged  in  sweeping  away  the  last  ves- 
tiges of  worn-outfeudalsystemsiu  Church  and 
State  from  their  midst — I  say,  sir,  that  these 
afford  us  ample  proof  that  the  men  to  whom, 
I  hope,  we  shall  soon  look  back  as  the  founders 
of  a  new  natiun,  were  ancestors  of  whom  any 
people  might   be  proud;  and  I  trust   that 
we,  their  descendants,  may  prove  ourselves 
but  half  as   capable    of   administering  and 
developing  the  vast  inheritance  which  awaits 
us.     Sir,  I  believe   that  even  we  ourselves 
are  but  just  beginning  to  grow  aware  of  the 
immense  resources,  whether  in  field  or  forest, 
in  mine  or  in  minerals,  in  seas  or  in  fisheries, 
with  which   it  abounds  ;    that  we  are    but 
just  beginning  to  appreciate  the  advantages 
which  surround  us — our  all  but  unparalled 
internal  navigation  ;  a  healthy  and  far  from 
over-rigorous  climate,  and  a  country  which, 
even    if    it    does    not    present    the    same 
facilities  for  accumulating  enormous  fortunes 
in  the  hands   of  a  few   individuals    which 
some  other  lands  may  afford,  still  promises, 
and,  I  think,  will  continue  for  many  a  day 
to  promise,  comfort  and  competence  to  every 
man  who  is  willing  to  work  for   it.     Older 
nations,  Mr.  Speaker,  are  working  for  us 
even  now.     Older  nations  arc  accumulating 
the  skill  and  the  capital  which  will  yet  be 
transferred   to  our  shores,  if  our   own  folly 
do  not  prevent  it.      Older  nations  are  even 
new  busied  in  solving  those  problems  which 
advanced  civilization  is  sure  to  bring  to  us  in 
our  turn  ;  and  we,  if  we  are  wise,  may  learn 
and  profit  by  their  example.  A  little  patience, 
a  little  forbearance,  a  little  timely  c  >ncession 
to  mutual  prejudices,  a  little  timely  prepar- 
ation against  possible  dangers,  and   we  may 
well  hope  to  establish   a  state  which,  in  all 
essential  attributes  of  power  and  happiness, 
need  not  fear  comparison  with  any  other  on 
this  continent.     Let  us  not  be  daunted  by 
any    accidental    checks — we    must    lay    our 
account  to  meet  such  in  matters  of  not  one- 
tenth  its  importance — this  is  the  time  and 
this  the  hour;   never  again  can  we  tope  to 
enter  on  our  task  under  circumstances  better 
fitted  to  remove  the  natural,  the  inevitable 
prejudices    which    must    exist    between   so 
many  different  provinces — never  aj^ain  can 
we    hope    to    receive    a   warmer    and   more 
energetic  support  from  the  Imperial  autho- 
rities— never  again  can  wo  hope  to  see   a 


825 


Ministry  in  office  which  shall  command  more 
completely  the  confidence  of  the  great  mass 
of  our  people,  and  which  shall  possess  the 
same  or  equal  facilities  for  adjusting  those 
sectional  difficulties  which  have  disturbed 
us  so  long ;  and  I  trust  that  in  this  most 
important  crisis,  this  House  will  show  itself 
not  altogether  unworthy  to  be  intrusted 
with  the  destiaies  of  three  millions  of  their 
coUQtrymen.  My  own  years  are  not  very 
mauy,  Mr.  Speaicer,  but  yet  even  I  can 
remember  when  Caoidawas  but  a  petty  pro- 
vince, an  obscure  dependency,  scarce  able  to 
make  its  voice  heard  on  the  other  side  of 
the  Atlantic  without  a  rebellion  ;  forgotten 
or  ignored,  as  if,  as  the  French  Minister  said 
when  he  signed  the  treaty  for  its  surrender, 
"  it  mattered  not  what  became  of  a  few 
barren  acres  of  snow  !"  And  yet,  sir,  in 
less  than  thirty  years  I  have  lived  to  see 
Canada  expand  into  a  state  equal  in  numbers, 
in  resources  and  power  of  self-government 
to  many  an  independent  European  kingdom 
— lacking  only  the  will  to  step  at  once  from 
the  position  of  a  dependency  to  th-^.t  of  an 
ally — a  favored  ally  of  the  great  country  to 
which  we  belong,  and  to  take  that  rank 
among  the  commonwealth  of  nations  which 
is  granted  to  those  people,  and  to  those  only, 
who  have  proved  that  they  possess  the  power 
as  well  as  the  wish  to  defend  their  liberties. 
This,  sir,  is  what  I  think  Canada  can  do  j 
this  is  what  I  think  Canada  ought  to  do; 
and  if,  as  I  b'elieve,  this  project  of  Confeder- 
ation would  contribute  most  powerfully  to 
enable  us  to  do  so,  there  are  few  sacrifices 
which  I  would  refuse  to  make  for  such  an 
object — much  more,  forgive  ray  honorable 
friends  yonder  for  haviug  in  time  past  spoken 
somewhat  over  harshly  and  hastily  of  each 
other.  Let  them  only  persevere,  let  them 
only  go  on  and  complete  the  task  which  I 
will  say  they  have  so  nobly  begun,  and  they 
will  have  made  good  their  claim — I  do  not 
say  to  the  forgiveness — but  to  the  regard, 
the  afi'ection,  the  esteem  of  every  man  who 
shall  hereafter  bear  the  name  of  Canadian. 
(Cheers.) 

Mr.  HARWOOD  said— Mr.  Speaker, 
the  importance  of  the  proposed  measure  ;  the 
fatal  consequences  which  would  result  to  the 
country  if  the  plan  of  Confederation  were 
rejected  by  this  House;  the  sources  ot  social, 
political  and  commercial  prosperity  with 
which  the  measure  of  Confederation  is  preg- 
nant, if  it  is  adopted  with  a  firm  deter- 
mination on  the  part  of  all  to  contribute  their 
part  towards  its  perfect  working,  are  such, 
105 


that  notwithstanding  the  eloquent  speeches 
delivered  on  the  subject  on  both  sides,  and 
which  seem  to   have   completely  exhausted 
it,  I  consider  it  my  duty  to  make  known  to 
the  country  the  reasons  whieh  iufluenco  me 
to  assist  in  passing  it.     Called,  as  we  all  are, 
to  record  our  votes  either  for  or  against  this 
great  constitutional  change,  it  is   no  more 
than  right  that  every  one  should  in  his  own 
way   account   for  the  part    which   ho    may 
take   in   a    measure    which    will    naturally 
inaugurate  a  new  era  in  the  parliamentary 
annals  of  Canada.     (Hear,    hear.)     I  have 
listened  attentively  to  the  opponents  of  the 
measure,  and  read  their  speeches  again  and 
again,  and  triily  the  only  effjct  they  have 
had  on  my  mind  is  a  stronger  conviction  that 
in  the  anomalous  position  of  the  country,  a 
Federal  union  of  all  the  Provinces  of  British 
North   America  is  the   only  remedy  for  all 
the  innumerable  difficulties  which  a.e  sha- 
dowed   forth    on     our     political     horizon. 
(Cheers.)     The  opponents  of  the  measure, 
not  being  able  positively  to  deny  the  advan- 
tages  of  Confederation   to  all  the  five  pro- 
vinces of  British  Amer  ca,  endeavor  to  get 
up  a  cry  that  this  union  would  involve  the 
loss  to  us  French-Canadians,  and  Catholics, 
of  our   nationality,  our    language,  oar  laws 
and  institutions.  I,  for  ray  part,  cannot  lo  *k 
upon   it  in  so   terrible  a   bght — having  all 
history  before  me,   I   cannot   come  to  that 
conclusion.     I  shiU  soon  shew  clearly  that 
there  exists  throughout  the  world  confeder- 
ations in  which  are  included  different  natioa- 
alities,  difierenc  religious  sects,  and  in  which, 
nevertheless,  the  most  thorough  equilibrium 
prevails  of  the  political,  civil  and  religious 
rights    pertaining    to    the    different   classes 
of   which    they   consist.     Do   we   find   any 
other  means  of  settling  our  difficulties  of  all 
kinds  besides  this  of  vJ  on  federation  ?     No, 
I  find   none  ;    and   none   is   proposed  to  us 
by  the  opponents  of  the  plan  now  before  the 
House  !     Mr.  Sj'EAKBR,  the  cou-itry  is  come 
to  a  political  dead-lock;  we  have  arrived  at 
a  crisis;    ambition,    the    thirst  of   power, 
political   passions  worked   upon  in  all  ways 
and  on  all  sides,  have  so  clogged  the  wheels 
of  the  machine  of  government,  that  it  has 
been  brought  to  a  stand-still ;  and  those  who 
guided  its  movements  have  had  to  rack  their 
brains  to  find  some  way  of  continuing  the 
transaction  of  public  business— a  way  by  which 
we  may  arrive  at  a  solution  of  the  difficulty, 
and  escape  from  the  slough  of  status  quo  in 
which  the  wheels  of  government  are   stuck 
fast;  and  by  which  we  may  return  to  the 


8^26 


high    road   of  progress   and   improvement. 
Truly,  Mr.  Speakee,  if  the  bitterest  enemy 
of  Canada  had  had  it  in  his  power  to  invent 
an  inclined  plane  on  which  he  might  place 
us  to  hurry  us  to  ruin,  he  could   not  have 
done  it  better   than   the   different  political 
parties    have    done   it    within    the   last  few 
years.     Elections  on  elections,  one  Ministry 
succeeding  another ;  one  crying  out  extrav- 
agance, the    other    issuing    commissions  of 
inquiry  to  try  to  make  places  for  its  friends 
— what,  in   short,   has  been  the    course  of 
events  for  the  last   few  years  ?     Since  the 
21st  May,  1>>G2,  have  we  not  had  four  or 
five  governments   who    have   managed   the 
affairs  of  the  country?     One  we  had  which 
seemed  to  be  *'  the  darling  of  the  nations," 
the    paragon   government   of  economy  and 
retrenchment,     the     Macdonald-Dorion 
Groverument.      What    did    it    do    for    the 
country?     Nothing,  absolutely  nothing;  it 
had  not  even  the  moral  courage  to  stand  by 
its    own    measures.      In    the    beginning  of 
February,  1864,  it  brought  in   a  bill  (that 
respecting  sheriffs).     Well,  what  did  it  do 
in  the   circumstances  ?     Afraid  of  its  own 
wcrk,  it  stood  aghast  at  the  remonstrances 
of  some  of  its  own  partisans,  who  were  con- 
tumacious— despair  fell  upon  the  leaders — 
the  camp  was  a  scene  of  confusion  ;  and  lo  ! 
one    fine  day    this  Ministry,   which  was   to 
bring  back  the  golden  age  of  happiness  and 
prosperity,  sank  placidly  to  rest — became  a 
thing  of  the   past,  and  left  "  not  a  wreck 
behind"  to  mark  its  accession  to  power.     In 
a  word,  that  pattern  Administration  died  in 
its  virginity,  died  with  the  famous  scheme  of 
retrenchment   in   its   hand,  and  a  still-born 
"budget"    on   its  conscier  ce  !     (Continued 
laughter   and   cheers.)     Task  every  man  of 
sense   how  many  such  governments  as   that 
we  should  require  to   take  the  ship  of  the 
country's  welfare   into  port — to   redeem  us 
from   our  unhappy  condition — to  calm   the 
strife  of  parties — to  settle  the  many  questions, 
often  irreconcihbly  incompatible  with  each 
other,  which  had  so  lorpg  agitated  the  differ- 
ent sections  of  the  country — a  strife  which 
threatened    to    become     perpetuul  ?     What 
would   have  become  of  us  if  a  providential 
piece  of  good  fortune  had  not  brought  to- 
gether the   men  who   compose  the   present 
Administration  ?     Every   one  can  conceive 
that  the  Coalition  Government,  the  only  pos- 
sible one  in  such  circumstances,  came  in  just 
in  the  nick  of  time;  and,  as   a  proof  of  its 
fitness  for  its  mission,  it  "  took  fortune  by 


the  forelock,"  as  the  proverb  says,  and  cle- 
verly made   use  of   opportunity.     In  fact, 
three  months  after  the  present  Ministry  was 
formed,  three  of  the  Lower  Provinces,  com- 
prehending the  utility  of  a   union  among 
themselves,  conceived  the  idea  of  forming 
one  from  which   might   flow  strength    and 
prosperity  to  all;  being  convinced  that  a  state 
of  disunion  such  as  theirs  had  always  been — 
their  commerce  paralyzed  by  hostile  tariffs — 
was  a  political  suicide.     They  therefore  sent 
delegates  to  Charlottetown,  to  devise  a  plan 
among  themselves  for  the  purpose  of  solving, 
in  some  profitable  manner,  the   difficulties 
which   beset   them,    the    three    provinces. 
What  course  did  our  Government  then  take? 
The  members  of  the  Cabinet — too  wise  to 
disregard  the  importance  of  the  movement — 
too  statesmanlike  to  neglect  its  advantages — 
found  means  to  take  part  in  the  proceedings 
at  Charlottetown;  and  being  convinced  that 
a  Federal  union  of  all  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America  would  be  the  real  salvation  of 
the  country,  laid    before   the    delegates    at 
Charlottetown  a  large,  well-digested  scheme 
based  on  a  regard  for  justice  and  equality  in 
respect  of  the  rights  and  privileges  of   all  ; 
a  scheme  by  which  each  origin  and  each  belief 
will  enjoy  full  and  complete  protection  ;    a 
scheme  of  Federal  union,  in  a  word,  having  for 
its  apex  the  powerful  aegis  of  England;  for  its 
foundation,  social,    political   and   commercial 
prosperity ;   and  for  its  cornerstone,  constitu- 
tional liberty  in  all  its  amplitude  and  strength. 
(Cheers.)     This  idea  of  a  Confederation  of 
the  provinces  is  not  a  new  one.     All  who  are 
in  the  slightest  degree  acquainted  with  the 
parliamentary   his'ory    of    the   country,   arc 
aware  that  a  plan  for  the  Confederation  of  the 
British  North  American   Provinces  was  one 
of  the  base-i  upon  which  the  programme  cf  the 
Cartier-Macdonald  Administration  rested 
in  1858.     It  may  be  asked — "  Why  should 
we  have  Confederation  ?"     ''  Why  should  we 
not  remain  as  we  are  ?"    It  is  impossible,  and 
its  impossibility  is  proved  by  the  past.     Lei 
those  who  do  not  see  the  seasonablene^s   of 
the  Confederation  look  at  what  is  going  on 
on  the  other  side  of  the  line — what  do  they 
see  there  ?    The  threatened  abrogation  of  the 
lleciprocity    treaty.     The  abrogation  of  the 
transit    system   is    threatened.     A   passport 
system,   which  throws   the   greatest  possible 
obstacles    in    the   way   of   our    free    travel 
through  the  States,  and  does  serious  injury  to 
the  development  of   our  trade,  has  been  in- 
augurated.     We   have  no   means   of    com- 


827 


municating  during  the  winter  witli  the  Mother 
Country,  except  by  passing  over  American  soil, 
and  our  passage  ovcr_^that'soil  is  merely  toler- 
ated ;  we  may  at  any  moment  be  deprived  of 
this  privilege,  and  in  that  case  we' should  find 
ourselves  all  at  once,  during  ^the  long  winter 
season,  without  any  possible ^  means  ,of  com- 
munication with  Europe.     These  reasons  are 
more  than  sufficient  to  cause  us  to  seek  to  im- 
prove   our   position,    and   the   only   possible 
means  by  which  to  effect  that   object,  |_ is   a 
commercial, !.social  ""and  political  union  with 
our  sister  colonies,  the  Maritime  Provinces. 
I  hear  honorable  members  say — ''  Why  not 
rather    have    the    repeal   of     the    union?" 
"Why  not  leave  Upper  and  Lower  Canada 
separate  as    they  were  previous  to    1840  ?" 
Such^a  measure  would  [probably  .  put  an  end 
to  the  reiterated  demands  of  Upper   Canada 
for  representation^^based  upon  population,  and 
the  fears  entertained  by  Lower  Canada,  the 
fear  of  seeing  her   institutions  endangered, 
should  that  system  of  representation  be  con- 
ceded ;  but  that  measure  would  be  rather  a 
retrograde    one,    which     would    throw    the 
country  back,  and  would  place  it  in  the  posi- 
tion which  it  occupied  previous  to  the  union. 
That  measure  would  abrogate  an   agreement 
which  has  Ions;  existed — a  union  which  has 
prov'ed  to  the  country  a  well-spring  of  pro- 
gress, riches  and  prosperity.     Such  a  dissolu- 
tion would  only  tend  to  weaken  us  still  more, 
and  we  should  be  but  two  weak  and  insignifi- 
cant provinces,  whereas  our  union  has  con- 
verted us   into   one   province   comparatively 
strong.     We  can  realize  the  gigantic   works 
which  have  been  carried   out  when  we  look 
upon  our  canals  and  oui   railways.     Is  there 
any  one  man  endowed  with  ordinary  fairness 
— any  one  man  who  has  not  completely  taken 
leave  of  his  senses,  who  will  venture  to  say  that 
Upper  and  Lower   Canada  would  have  bfeen 
as  far  advanced;  each  of  then;,   as  they  now 
are,     if  they    had    remained   separate,   with 
tariffs  inimical  the  one  to  the  other?    "  Soon- 
er than  have  Confederation,"  will  exclaim  an 
opponent,  root  and  branch ,  of  the  scheme  pi'O- 
posed,  "  let  us  concede  to  Upper  Canada  repre- 
sentation adjusted  on  the  basis  of  population 
wholly  and  entirely,  as  the  honorable  member 
for  Hochelaga  would  appear  in  his  celebrated 
manifesto   of    1865    to    desire;"    but  this  is 
positively   absurd — it   is  a   violation   of  the 
spirit  and  the  letter  of  the  Union  Act  of  18-iO  ; 
it  is  the  principal  source  of  all  the  difficult  es 
of    a    sectional   nature    which   have  proved 
the  source  of  difficulty,  both  in  this  House  ' 


and  throughout  the  country,  for  several  years 
past.     It  would  be  asking  for  the  utter  ruin 
ot  the  civil  and  religious  rights  of  the  French- 
Canadians.     Under  such  melancholy  circum- 
stances, Mr.  Speaker,  what  is  then  left  for 
us  ?     There  is  left  for  us  the  Confederation 
of  all  the  British  Provinces  in  North   Ameri- 
ca.    That  is  the  only  possible  remedy  under 
existing  circumstances.    Of  two  alternatives 
we  must  select  one.     Either  we  shall  form 
part  of  a  Confederation  of  the  British  North 
American  Provinces,  or  we  shall  fall  into  ihe 
unfathomable  gulf  of  the   Confederation  of 
the  neighboring  States,  formerly  the  United 
States.    (Hear,  hear.)    How  absurd  are  they 
who  believe  that  the  United   States  do  not 
want  us,  with  our  mineral  wealth  and   our 
fisheries,  which  latter  are  ff  themselves  an 
inexhaustible  source  of  riches  to  the  country  ! 
The  United  States  did  not,  in  1776,  number 
more  than  four  millions  of  inhabitants  ;  there 
were  then  only  thirteen  states  ;  now  there  are 
thirty  one  states   and    seven    territories  —  at 
least  that  was  the  number  before  the  war — 
and  a  population  of  more  than  thirty  millions. 
We  know  that  the  prodigious  growth  of  the 
United  States   is  owing  to  their  purchases, 
their   treaties   and   their   conquests.       They 
want  us,  and  would  stir  heaven  and  earth  to 
have  us  in  their  grasp.     (Hear,  hear.)     Let 
us  beware !     We  stand  on  the  brink  of  the 
yawning  gulf  of  the  American  Confederation, 
falling   into   which  we  encounter,  first,    our 
shnre  of  liability  to  pay  a  national  debt  of 
three  thousand  millions  of  dollars,  and  an  an- 
nual expenditure  of  five  hundred  millions ; 
and  next,  a  share  of  their  national  quarrels 
and  civil  wars.     Exposed  to  persecution  by 
the  conqueror,  and  loaded  with  the  heavy 
burthen  of  enormous  debts  incurred  in  the 
prosecution  of  a  cruel  and  fratricidal  war — a 
war  of  which,  be  it  said,  everybody  knows  the 
beginning,    but  of  which  nobody  knows  the 
end  —  the   uncalculating   opponents   of    the 
measure  before  us  will  regret  their  obstinacy 
and  their  disregard  of  their  country's  weal. 
Then  they  will  see   the   naked   features   of 
those    democratic   institutions  which  are  in 
reality  inconsistent  with  true  liberty — of  those 
boasted   institutions,  under   whose  influence 
the  last  vestiges  of  libeity  have  faded  away, 
as  does  the  light  at  the  close  of  a  bright  day. 
Under  them  the  liberty   of  the  press  is  un- 
known ;  under  them,  liberty  is  but  a  name,  a 
dream,  an  illusion,  a  mockery,  often  a  suarej 
under    them   no  man  can  venture  to  speak 
frankly  what  he  thinks,  and  must  take  care 


828 


•  that  what  he  says  is  in  unison  with  the  opin- 
ions of  the  majority  of  his  audience  ;  under 
them  the  rights  of  the  minority  are  unac- 
knowledged, ignored,  as  if  they  had  no  exist- 
ence :  the  will  of  the  majority  is  law.     For 
my  part,  Mr.  Speaker,  democratic  institu- 
tions  have   no   charms    for    me.       Liberty, 
Equality,  Fraternity  !     How  many  sad  and 
mournful  memories  are  connected  with  those 
three  words  in  France  ?      In  the  name  of 
Liberty,  Equality,   Fraternity,  in    the   year 
1793,  that  country  saw  the  best  of  kings  led 
to  the  guillotine,  provinces  laid  waste,  blood 
flowing  like  water  ;  the  standard  of  rebellion 
and  insubordination  raised  and  borne  triumph- 
antly ;    the   pillage  of  churches    and   monas- 
teries, the  desecration  of  the  altar ;  priests, 
nuns,  old  men,  women,   fnd  even   children, 
murdered !     Those  three  magic  words  were 
the  signal  and  vindication  of  the  "  drownings 
at   Nantes,"    sometimes   called   by   the    fine 
sounding   name  of   "  republican  marriages." 
Yes,   Mr  Speaker,  civil  war  rages  among 
our  neighbors  ;  but  let  us  hope  that  Divine 
Providence  will  guard   these  new   countries 
from  the  disasters   and    the    horrid  crimes 
which,  to  the  eternal  shame  of  civilization, 
stain   the  history  of  certain  portions  of  Eu- 
rope  at  tl e  close  of  the   last  century.       It 
was  after  a  civil  war  tliat  the  terrible  pro- 
scriptions of  Marius  and  Sylla  coumienccd. 
Let  peace  once  be   made  between   the  Fed- 
,  eral  and  Coniederate   States,  then  we   shall 
see   the  harvest  of    rancorou ;   hatred  cover 
the  earth,  the  fires  of  revenge  burst   forth ; 
then  woe  to  those  who  have  given  offence  to 
men  of  the  type  and  character  of  the  famous 
General  Butler.    What  is  incumbent  on  us, 
then,  if  we  would  escupe  sharmg  the  horrort* 
of  the  situation  ?     What  but  to  unite,  one 
and   all — to  combine   all  our  means,  our  re- 
sources, our  en  rgics,  and  to  have  confidence 
in   ourselves  and  in  one  another  —  to   show 
England  that  we  intend  to  emerge  from  the 
state  of  isolation  in  which    each  several  pro- 
vince has  lain  as  regards  the  others;  that  we 
intend  to  organize  a  system,  so  as  to  be  pre- 
pared to  do  our  p;irt  in  the  hour  of  danger  ? 
We  have  every  a&surance   that  England  will 
spend  her  last  m/.n,  her  last  shilling,  in   de- 
fending and  protecting  us.     Having  a  Fed- 
eral union,  all   the  wealth  which   abounds  in 
the  five   provinces  will  be  most  highly  devel- 
oped ;    our  mineral  riches,  our  timber,  our 
fisheries,  our  commcrco,  internal  an  1  external, 
our  industrial  arts  ami   manul'aciurcs,  will  all 
receive   a  fresh  impulse ;  capital  will  flow  in, 
*   and  with  it  the  means  of  defence  of  every 


description.     I  do  not  pretend  to  say  that 
the  mere  fact  of  a  "  Confederation  "  will  ren- 
der us  invincible.     No,  far  from  it,  especial- 
ly when  opposed  to  so  formidable,  so  warlike 
a  foe  as  the  neighboring  Confederation  has 
now  become ;  but  I  do  venture  to  say  that  if 
we  do  our  best,  England  will  never  desert  us, 
and  if  the  armies  of  the  neighboring  Con- 
federacy should  occupy  our  country,  it  would 
not  be  hers  to  keep  it  long.     It  ia  not  essen- 
tially a  necessity,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  a  small 
Confederation  cannot  exist  by  the  side  of  a 
large  one  without  being  swallowed  up  and 
absorbed.     If  all  gi-eat  nations  are  bound  to 
subject    to    their   yoke   all    the    little   ones, 
why    are    there   so    many    small   states    in 
Europe  ?  (Hear,  hear.)     It  may  be  that  the 
mutual  jealousies  of  the  great  powers  are  the 
cause ;   then  who    shall   say    that    France — 
France    which    fought    side   by    side    with 
England  in  the  Crimea—  France  which,  look- 
ing at  Mexico,  is  so  deeply  interested  in   the 
affairs  of  this  continent — would  not  join  with 
England  in  a  war  between  that  po\  er  and  the 
neighboring   States,  if  the  latter  should  un- 
dertake to  drive  the  English  from  the  banks 
of  the  St.  Lawrence  ?    When  a  nation,  strong 
in  its  rights,  is  determined  to  preserve  them, 
it  is  often  invincible.       When  Xeuxls,  with 
a  million  of  men,  lell  upon  Greece,  was  he  not 
driven  back  with  the  total  loss  of  his  immense 
army  ?     When  war  was  declared  against  the 
South,  was  not  the  North,  with  its  population 
of  twenty  millions,  going  to   annihilate   the 
South  in   three  mouths  ?      It   is  now   more 
than  four  years  that  the  war  has  been  raging, 
and  the  South,  without  friends,  without  allies, 
is  not  yet  conquered  and  made  to  pass  under 
the  yoke.     Thv:;  hi.'^tory  of  Prussia  afl'ords  a 
proof  of  what  bravery  can  achieve,  even  when 
upposed   to  an    enemy   infinitely   superior  in 
numbers.      In    1740,    the    youthful    Prince 
Frederic  ascended  the   Throne  of  Prussia. 
The  country  contained  no  more  than  48,000 
square  miles,  and  had  a  population  of  only 
two  millions  and  a  half,  less  than  the  j)Opula- 
tioQ  of  Can  ida  alone,  as  it  now  is.     Her  fron- 
tier northward  was  a  wall  of  ice,  all  the  sea- 
ports were  closed  during  the  winter  season; 
her  only  ally  was  lukewarm  ;  to  the  east,  west 
and  south,  she  was  bounded  by  powerful  em- 
pires, the  population  of  each  of  which  alone 
far  exceeded   that  which     she    could    boast. 
The  country  was  long  and  narrow  ;  it  was  flat 
and  well  adapted  at  all  points  iur  the  move- 
ments of  troops ;  no  country  couid  be  more 
exposed    to    an    invasion ;    uevcrihelesa    the 
Prince,  unchallenged,  threw  himself  headlong 


829 


into  a  bloody  war — as  the  aggressor — ^with  all 
his  neighbors.      Alone,   and  simultaneously, 
he  had  on  his  hands    Austria,  France  and 
Russia.     Yet  he  left  to  his  successor  a  king- 
dom of  74,000   square  miles,   and  a  people 
numbering  nearly   six  millions.      The   small 
and   heroic  republic  of  Holland    did  not  hesi- 
tate to  enter  into  a   war    with    the    mighty 
monarchy  of  Spain,  then  mistress  of  t'-e  wealth 
of  the  Indies.      At  this  day  her  vessels   are 
found  in  every  sea.     Java  and  Sumatra  belong 
to  her.     Yet  her  population  is  smaller  than 
that  of  the  Provinces  of  British  North  Amer- 
ica.    Single-handed  in  1848,  Piedmont  dared 
to   enter   on  a  struggle   with  Austria.     The 
King  of  Piedsr.ont  had  then  four  millions  of 
subjects ;    he   now   reigns    over    twenty-two 
millions.     Even   poor   little  Greece,   with   a 
million  of  inhabitants,  must  have  its  share  in 
revolutions,  choose  a  king,   and    talk  of  its 
rights,    its   preten.sions,    and   its   aspirations. 
No,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  one,  the  only  means 
of  safety  for  us,  in  the  cir'-umstauccs,  is  to 
have  a  Federal  union  of  all  our  provinces — a 
social,    political,    commercial     and    iidlitary 
union.     Happen  what   may,  when  v,'e    have 
done    all   that   men  of  courage    and   energy 
can  be  expected  to  do  to  mend  our  position, 
our  future  will  not  be  so  dark  as  the  friends 
and  advocates  of  the  status  quo  would  have  us 
believe.     Do  these  wondertul  patriots  really 
believe  in  their  hearts,  that  continuing  to  be 
isolated  as  they  are  from  each  other,  having 
no  cordial  alliance,  almost  no  relations  or  in- 
tercourse,   the  Provinces    of    British   North 
America  would  be  either  stronger  or  less  ex- 
posed to  the  attacks  of  the  Northern  States 
than   they   would  be  if  united  ?     Are  those 
persons  not  original  in  their  ideas  who  allege 
that  the  endeavor  of  the  Provinces  of  British 
North  America  to  form  a  Confederation  is  a 
kind  of  provocation  and  defiance  to  the  North- 
ern States  ?     If  the  Northern  States   made 
this  allegation,  the  most  that  could  be  said  of 
it  would  be,  that  it  wov.ld  be  a  vain  pretext, 
as  futile   as  it  would   be  ubsurd.     Not   less 
ridiculous  and  misjudging  are  those  persons 
who  pretend  th-it  the    Confederation   of  the 
Provinces  of  British  North  America  would  be 
a  step  towards   annexation   to  tlie  Northern 
States.     Truly,  there  are  some  minds  which 
have  an  odd  way  of  looking  at  things.     If, 
indeed,  the  opponents  of  Confederation  would 
only  prescribe  some  other  remedy  to  obviate 
the  evils  which  threaten  us  as  an  effect  of 
Confederation,  wc  should   hiive  at  least   the 
benefit  of  a  choice  ;  but  no — nothing  of  the 
sort — they     attack,    criticise,    but     suggest 


nothing.     On   the  other  hand,  the  principa 
journals  of  Europe    and   several  respectable 
journals  in  the  nei  hboring  States  have  re- 
corded  their    approbation  of  the  scheme   of 
Confederation  submitted  by  the  Government, 
and   predict  a  brilliant   future   for  the   new 
empii'e    which   is   about     to    arise    on  this 
side  of  the  frontier  line.     (Hear,  hear.)     Re- 
ferring to  history,  we  find  that  confederations 
have  been  formed  in  nearly  all  ages,  and  that 
the  principal   cause   of  their  formation    has 
been,  not  only  the  purpose  of  mutual  protec- 
tion, but  a  military  object.     These  two  mo- 
tives comtined  with  a  third,   that  of  com- 
mercial   advantages,    suggested    the    project 
which  now  occupies  our   attention.     Among 
the  ancient  Greeks  there  were  several  Federal 
unions,  the  twc  principal  being  the   ^Etolian 
and  the  Achcean  ;  the  former,  dating  from  a 
period  long  antecedent  to  that  of  Alexan- 
der, was  broken  up  by  the  subjection  of  tho 
states  composing  the  league  to  Rome,  about 
180   years   B.  C. ;    the    second,    which    was 
formed  about  280  years  B.  C,  was  destroyed 
by  the  Romans  about  150   years  before  the 
vulgar  era.  The  ^tolian   Coufederatioo  com- 
prised till  the  northern  parts  of  Greece  on  the 
confines  of  Thessaly  and  Epirus,  a  portion  of 
Cejtral  Greece,  and  several  of  the  islunds  of 
the  ^gem  sea.     This  was  a  union  rather  of 
provinces  than  of  cities.     It  had  a  "Consti- 
tution," '•  States  General,"  a  chief  magistrate, 
a   commander-in-chief,    and   different   public 
officers,  with  different  functions  or  powers ; 
the  power  of  declaring  war  and  that  of  mak- 
ing peace,  of  levying  taxes_   coining  money 
current  :it  that  time — all  were  intrusted  to  the 
Central  Government.     The  Aclioo  in  liCague, 
on  the  contrary,   was  a  union,   not  of  pro- 
vinces, but  of  cities  or  towns — not  les-^  than 
seventy  in   number.      There  was  a   Federal 
capital,    a    "  C-'UStitutiou,"    different    public 
officei's,  each  invested  with  privileges  and  cer- 
tain powers  and  dutii  s,  too  many  to  be  enu- 
merated in  this  place.    Who  has  not  read  the 
life  of  Aratus  and  that  of  Philopce.men, 
the  la.ter  one  of  the   greatest  statesmen,  the 
other   the   greatest  captain    of  the  Achojan 
union  ?     In  reading  the  history  of  these  na- 
tions we  shall  find  that  it  was  their  uni-n 
wliich  saved  them  so  long  from  the  inroads  of 
their  enemies,  and  which,  for  ages,  preserved 
their  autonomy.     Vv'e  next  come  to  the  Iial- 
iim  Confederation  of  the  middle  ages.     Like 
those  of  Greece,  they  derived  their  origin  from 
military    necessity.       The    League    of  Lom- 
bardy,  and  that  of  the   Tuscans,  were  pro- 
jected   principally  ^as   a  mutual    protection 


830 


against   the     emperors,    who     were    greedy 
of     conquest,     and     among     them     against 
Frederic    Barbarossa.     In   that  of  the 
Tuscans,   there   was    even    an    ecclesiastical 
element  of  a  decided  character,  inspired  by 
Pope  Innocent  III.,   its   principal   author. 
The  famous  Ilom-n  Tribune  RiENZi  tried  to 
form  a  Confederation  of  all  the  Italian  States, 
but  perished  without  realizing  this  dream  of 
his  existence.     Rome  was  to  be  the   Federal 
Capital.     RiENZi  died  in  1352.     The  Swiss 
or    Helvetic    Confederacy    existed   from    the 
twelfth  century.  In  1474  Louis  XI.  of  France 
endeavored  to  subdue  it,  but  lost  his  trouble. 
In  1477  Charles  the  Bold  of  Burgundy 
lost  his  kingdom  and  life  while  foolishly  assail- 
ing this  Confederate  power.  In  1488  the  Em- 
peror Maximilian  tried  also  in  vain  to  sub- 
jugate the  country,  Spain  likewise  endeavored 
on  many  occasions  to  subdue  the  Confederate 
States,  but  failed.     In  1798   the  Cantons  of 
Switzerland  became  the  Helvetian   Republic. 
In  1803  they   fell  under   the   protection   of 
Napoleon  I.,  and  in  1813  the  allies  overran 
them.     In  virtue  of  the  Federal  Act  signed 
at   Zurich  in   1815,   important  amendments 
were  made  in  their  Constitution.     The  pur- 
pose of  the  Helvetian  Confederation  is   the 
protection  of  the  country  against  foreigners, 
the  maintenance  of  peace  and  tranquility  at 
home,  the  preservation  of  public  liberty  in  the 
Coni'ederation,  and  the  increase  of  its  general 
f)rosperity.     This  Confederation  has  survived 
two  European  revolutions,  without  mentioning 
internal  troubles,   and  it  is  now   fifty  years 
old.     We  must  bear  in  mind  that  a  popula- 
tion the  most  various,   the   most   mixed  in 
point  of  origin,   language  and  religion,  lives 
under  this  Constitution.     The  people  number 
about  two  millions  and  a  half;    about   one 
and  two  -  thirds    of    a    million    speak    Ger- 
man, half  a  million  speak  French,    and  the 
remuinder  Italian  and  other  languages.     One 
half  of  the  population  is  Catholic,  the  other 
Protestant.       Their    intere>sts    aribing   from 
locality,  race  and  f  lith,  are  as  complicated  and 
as  various  as  arc  their  manners,  language  and 
customs,  and  yet  they  all  are  free,  all  live  se- 
curely, respected,  happy  and  prosperous.   Thcj 
all  enjoy  tic  greatest  and  the  purest  liberty. 
The.'o  are  twenty-two  Cantons;  and  what  is 
astonishing  is  that  the  chief  of  the  Canton  of 
Neufchatci  is  a  king,  the  King  of  Prussia. 
(Hear,  hear.)     I  shall  not  speak  of  the  Con- 
federation of  the  United  States  of  the  Nether- 
laniis,  which  had  their  day,  their  glory  and 
their  use  ;  but  I  shall  say  a  word  ol  the  great 
Gcnuanic  Confederation.     This  is  composed 


of  forty  statos  of  very  different  size,  and  con- 
tains    thirty-four    millions    of     inhabitants. 
There  belong  to  it  kingdoms,  grand  duchies, 
duchies,  principalities  and   free  cities.       In 
this  vast  association  are  (Jatholics,  Protest- 
ants, Jews,   in   shori  different  religions  and 
nationalities,    and   yet   none   tyrannise   over 
others ;  all  live  happily  under  the  saiv.c  Feder- 
al union  and  under  tlic  protectorate   of  the 
Emperor  of  Austria.      Of  these  states,  Aus- 
tria is,  properly  speaking,  the  first  in  import- 
ance ;  her   army  in  time  of  peace  is  280,000 
men,   in  time  of  war  she  can  bring  into  the 
field  800,000.      Prussia  is  the  second,  with 
an  army  of  200,000  men,  and  a  national  mili- 
tia of  400,000  men.      There  are,  as  I  have 
said,  in  these  states  various  nationalities  and 
different  sects  of  religion,   and,  nevertheless, 
the  rights  of  each  are  preserved  in  all  their 
integrity.     Why  then  should  not  we,  French- 
Canadians  and  Catholics,  become  a  component 
part  of  the  Confederation  of  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America,  without  any  appre- 
hension of  seeing  our  language,  our  la-.\s,  our 
religion    and   our    institutions   endangered  ? 
It  seems  to  me  that  we  could  find  no  perfect 
and  complete  protection  otherwise  than  by  a 
Confederation  of  this  nature,  inasmuch  ;.s  it 
is  a  union  based  on  equity  towards  the  inhabi- 
tants of  the  five   provinces  as  its  most  vital 
and  fundamental  principle.     As  to  the  Con- 
federation of  the  United  States,  I  shall  merely 
name  them.     Every  one  knows  that  in  1775, 
when   the  thirteen  colonies  revolted    against 
England,  they  helieved  that  the  only  means 
of  securing   internal  piosperity   and  of  de- 
fending   themselves    against     the     common 
enemy,  was  to  unite  together  for  their  mu- 
tual   protection  ;     clearly     perceiving     that 
if  they  remained  separate,  and  without  any 
bond  of   union,  as   the  uncalculating  oppo- 
nents of  the  present  plan   of  Confederation 
would  wish   the  Provinces  of  British  North 
America  to  remain,  their  defeat  was  certain, 
and  instead  of  coming  victoriously  out  of  the 
struggle,  they  would  be  easily  conquered.     I 
shall  now,  31r.  SPEAKER,  ask   to  be  allowed 
to  say  a  few  words  on  the  otlier  confedera- 
tions which  have  existed   ou  tiie  continent  of 
America.      In  the  first  place  1  shall  mention 
that  of  Central  America,  or  Guatimala.  That 
Confederation  was  situated   on  the  shores  of 
the   Pacific   Ocean  and  the  Gulf  of  Mexico. 
It  consisted   of  five  states — Guatimala,  Hon- 
duras, San   Salvador,   Nicaragua,  and   Costa 
Rica.     These  states  were  peopled  by  Creoles, 
Mestizos,  Indians   and    Mcgrues.      Until   tho 
year  1821   this  Confederation  was  rich  and 


831 


prosperous.  Guatimala,  then,  imitating  the 
ill-advised  example  of  other  Spanish  colonies, 
declared  its  independecce,  and  thought  fit  to 
set  up  as  a  Federal  republic;  but  in  1839  an 
insurrection  <ietached  the  state  of  Honduras 
from  the  Confederation,  and  shortly  after  the 
other  states  also  declared  themselves  to  be  in- 
dependent (1847)  ;  and  what  are  they  now  ? 
They  have  fallen  into  complete  insignificance, 
a  prey  to  the  ambition  of  numerous  dictators, 
without  any  common  bond,  disunited,  and 
therefore  without  vitality  or  strength.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  next  come  to  the  united  provin- 
ces of  Rio  de  la  Plata,  now  constituting  the 
Argentine  republic.  The  Confederation  of 
La  Plata  comprised  fourteen  states,  the  great- 
er part  of  which  formed  at  one  time  a  por- 
tion of  the  immense  Viceroyalty  of  Peru. 
In  1778,  being  united  to  the  present  province 
of  Bolivia,  to  Paraguay  and  Uruguay,  they 
formed  a  particular  Viceroyalty,  that  of  Rio 
de  la  Plata.  In  1810  they  took  part  in  the 
important  insurrectionary  movement  which 
shook  all  the  transatlantic  dependencies  of 
Spain ;  from  that  time  everything  tended  to 
republicanism  ;  separate  and  independent 
states  became  republics.  They  are  now  a 
prey  to  anarchy  and  the  confusion  which  at- 
tends such  institutions.  The  industrial  arts 
are  unheeded,  and  the  commerce  limited.  If, 
sir,  that  Confederation  had  proved  to  be 
faithful  to  the  cause  which  gave  it  life,  if 
union  had  prevailed  instead  of  disunion, 
strength,  power,  prosperity  and  wealth  would 
have  fallen  to  the  lot  of  the  association,  in  place 
of  poverty,  misery,  and  decay,  which  seem  now 
to  be  their  inevitable  fate.  (Hear,  hear.^ 
But  some  of  the  honorable  members  of  this 
House  have  maintained  that  the  union  would 
be  beneficial  to  nope  but  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces, that  they  alone  would  derive  advan- 
tage from  it,  as  they  are  comparatively  poor, 
while  Canada  is  rich  by  means  of  its  trade, 
through  its  industrial  pursuits,  its  manufac- 
tures and  its  agriculture.  I  maintain  for  my 
part  that  we  are  us  much  in  need  of  them  as 
they  are  of  us — (hear,  hear) — both  in  regard 
to  industry,  to  trade,  and  to  military  power. 
In  the  first  place,  let  us  consider  the  various 
resources  of  the  several  Maritime  Provinces. 
Nova  Scotia  is  not,  certainly,  altogether  an 
agricultural  country,  but  it  contains  valleys  in 
which  the  soil  is  as  deep,  as  rich,  and  as  well 
suited  for  farming  as  the  best  lands  of  the 
West.  A  large  portion  of  the  population  are 
devoted  to  fishing,  and  skilled  in  drawing 
from  the  bosom  of  the  deep  the  inexhaustible 
treasures  which  will  be  a  perennial  source  of 


wealth  and  prosperity  to  that  country  ;  more- 
over, such  a  life  tends  to  form  men  to  brave 
the  dangers  of  the  sea,  and,  in  case  of  need, 
those  hardy  seamen  would  be  ready  and  will- 
ing to  lend  their  aid  and  do  their  part  in  the 
defence  of  the  country.  Nor  is  this  all ;  the 
country  exports  prodigious  quantities  of  tim- 
ber of  all  kinds,  which  will  not  be  exhausted 
for  ages  to  come.  Every  year  they  build  a 
great  number  of  ships,  and,  in  proportion  to 
its  population.  Nova  Scotia  has  a  larger  amount 
of  "tonnage"  than  any  other  country  in  the 
whole  world.  (Hear,  hear.)  Another  source 
of  wealth  is  possessed  by  that  country,  ever 
abounding,  never  failing.  One  would  say 
that  nature  has  especially  favored  it  and  en- 
dowed it  with  the  most  bountiful  of  her  gifts 
— I  mean  the  rich  mines  of  coal  which  super- 
abound  in  that  country,  which  the  hand  of 
Providence  has  placed,  as  if  by  express  de- 
sign, not  in  the  interior  of  the  country,  but 
along  the  sea  side.  Everybody  knows  that 
coal  at  the  present  day,  when  steam  does 
so  much  that  the  hand  of  man  formerly 
did,  is  one  of  the  principal  aliments  which 
nourish  the  industry  of  mankind  through- 
out the  civilized  world.  Situated  on  the 
shores  of  the  Atlantic,  these  mines  can  be 
worked  vory  cheaply,  and  are  easily  acces- 
sible to  ships  of  all  nations.  The  charges 
of  loading  are  small  indeed,  there  is  scarcely 
any  land  carriage  required  to  convey  it  to  the 
bays  and  ports  to  which  the  different  trading 
ships  resort  for  their  lading.  Geologists 
celebrated  for  their  knowledge  have  explored 
these  regions,  and  declare  that  there  are 
thousands  of  square  miles  of  coal,  and  in 
some  places  seventy-six  beds  or  layers  of  coal 
one  above  the  other.  What  a  fertile  source  of 
revenue,  of  wealth  !  And  when  we  reflect  that 
the  main  source  of  the  prosperity  of  England 
has  been  and  still  is  her  mines  of  coal,  small 
in  comparisot:  with  those  of  Nova  Scotia,  we 
shall  find  that  no  change  of  circumstances, 
no  political  ties  or  relations  could  ever  prevent 
that  province  from  possessing  in  it-  coal 
measures,  a  source,  an  element  of  wealth,  in- 
comparably greater  than  the  famous  gold  and 
silver  mines  of  Peru.  Thousands  of  years 
must  pass  away,  no  doubt,  before  they  will  be 
exhausted.  I  say  nothing  of  the  mines  of 
gold,  silver  and  copper,  wilh  which  the 
country  seems  to  be  covered.  And  now,  am 
I  to  be  told  that  Canada,  having  the  benefit 
of  free  trade  with  such  a  country,  is  to  be 
no  better  for  it  ?  Does  not  everybody  know 
that  firewood  is  beginning  to  run  short  in  the 
district  of  Montreal  and  elsewhere  in  Lower 


S32 


Canada,  and  that  if  we  have  no  coal  to 
take  its  place,  the  country  people  will  in  thirty 
years'  time  be  obliged  to  abandon  their  farms 
for  want  of  means  to  enable  them  to  bear  the 
cold  of  our  long  winters  ?  Wc  shall  obtain 
wood  from  a  distance,  some  will  tell  you;  but 
thinking  men  know  very  well  that  firewood  is 
not  to  bo  carried  far  without  great  expense, 
which  must  raise  the  price  so  as  to  put  it 
beyond  the  reach  of  the  great  majority  of  con- 
sumers. Perhaps  we  shall  find  coal  in 
Canada.  No,  says  Sir  Wm.  Logan,  our 
learned  geologist — impossible;  science  tells  us 
that  it  does  not  exist.  (Hear,  hear.)  Now 
every  man  ^vho  has  the  le;.st  idea  of  public 
order,  of  political  economy,  must  be  well  aware 
that  a  mere  com  iiercial  union,  a  union  for 
the  levying  of  customs — a  ''Zollvcreia,"  in  a 
woid — would  not  suffice  to  create  the  well- 
being  and  general  prosperity  of  the  five  pro- 
vinces. The  Maritime  Provinces  are  im- 
mensely important  to  us  in  a  social,  indus- 
trial, commercial,  political,  and  especially  a 
military  point  of  view.  New  Brunswick  has 
also  considerable  resources.  Looking  at  the 
seasouabloness,  and  the  other  points  makini'; 
f I  r  the  union  of  the  provinces,  we  must  not 
omit  to  consider  it  in  its  relation  to  our  means 
of  defencj,  lu  this  point  of  view,  Newfound- 
land is  of  paramount  importance.  Casting  a 
glance  at  it  on  the  churi,  wc  find  it  lying 
ac.'oss  the  Gulf  of  St.  Lawrence,  commandin.' 
the  two  straits  by  which  the  trade  of  the 
countries  surrounding  the  gulf  and  'Jic  river 
reachis  the  ocean.  Let  that  island  but  fall 
into  the  hands  of  foreiiiuers,  the  trade  of  Can- 
ada would  in  war  time  be  as  completely 
stopped  as  if  the  ice  of  winter  had  erected  its 
permanent,  domicile  in  the  middle  of  the  gulf. 
(Hear,  hear.)  These  are  the  re  isons  which 
have  led  our  statesmen  to  secure,  by  all  possi- 
ble means,  the  alliance  of  that  province,  as 
they  well  understood  th  it,  that  wanting,  the 
Confederation  would  lose  the  benefit  of  all 
other  advantages  and  would  be  in  continual 
danger.  The  soaboard  of  Newfoundland  is 
1,2U0  miles  in  length,  and  it  possessei  the 
finest  harbours  in  the  world,  roadsteads  which 
might  shelter  whole  fleets.  The  main  source 
of  her  wealth  is  her  fisheries,  in  which  more 
than  30,000  men  are  annually  engaged — men 
accustomed  to  brave  the  waves  of  a  tempestu- 
ous sea.  Her  trade  in  fish  with  foreign  na- 
tions brings  her  in  contact  with  nearly  ail  the 
maritime  countries  of  Europe,  and  with  the 
United  States,  and  yet  siie  has  at  present 
scarcely  any  such  connection  with  Canada. 
What  is  her  position  with  relation  to  us  at 


this  moment  ?  Her  merchants  are  forced  to 
resort  to  the  States  to  transact  their  business, 
for,  in  order  to  reach  Montreal,  they  must 
pass  through  Halifax  aid  Boston,  The  es- 
tablishment of  a  line  of  steamers  between 
that  island  and  Canada  would  be  a  great  ad- 
vantage to  both  provinces;  for  Newfoundland 
possesses  what  we  want  and  requires  what  we 
have.  It  appears  that  the  Island  buys  from 
the  United  States  to  the  amount  of  several 
millions  of  dollars  yearly,  and  exactly  those 
articles  which  we  are  able  to  furnish ;  and 
that  the  current  of  trade  having  taken  its 
present  direction,  is  owing  to  certain  fiscal 
impediments  to  trade  between  the  two  pro- 
vinces. With  free  trade,  Newfoundland 
would  buy  from  Canada  woollen  stuflFs,  cutlery 
and  hardware — everything,  in  short,  which 
she  requires.  Under  Confederation,  the  town 
of  St.  Johns,  in  Newfoundland,  would  be  the 
most  easterly  sea-port  of  the  union,  and  by 
making  it  a  port  of  call  for  our  transatlantic 
steamers,  it  would  bring  us  within  six  days  of 
the  Mother  Country.  As  to  Prince  Edward 
Island,  that  also  has  its  importance.  Its 
revenue  is  well  managed  ;  it  is  in  a  prosperous 
state,  and  has  no  debt;  on  the  contrary,  it  has 
a  considerable  reserve  fund.  Accordingly, 
now  is  the  time  to  take  a  step  in  the  right 
direction.  This  union  of  the  provinces  is  a 
political  necessity,  and  any  delay  would  entail 
the  danger  of  losing  the  opportunity  alto- 
gether, which  might  never  occur  again.  Can- 
ada, with  her  imiuense  commerce,  is  indebted 
for  her  access  to  the  seaboard  during  six 
months  of  the  year  to  the  tolerant  good-will 
of  a  neighboring  nation.  If  that  permission 
were  withdrawn,  our  merchants  must  import 
during  the  summer  all  the  goods  which  they 
require  in  the  year.  This  would,  in  the  long 
run,  be  the  loss  of  the  consumer,  because 
everything  must,  of  course,  be  paid  for  at  a 
higher  rate.  Finally — and  this  is  the  most 
important  consideration  of  all  for  every  one, 
and  one  which  would  of  itself  be  sufficient  to 
make  us  desire  the  union  of  the  provinces — it 
would  be  the  most  efiectual  means  of  procuring 
the  building  of  the  Intercolonial  Railway — u 
road  which  would  open  an  uuiutorrupted  line 
of  communication  between  Sarnia  and  Halifax, 
thus  connecting  the  two  extremities  of  the 
Confederation.  Three  things  arc  necessary, 
nay,  indispensable,  to  the  prosperity  of  a  great 
empire — the  personal  elemeut,  the  territorial, 
and  the  niarilin\e  elemeut.  In  Canada  we  have 
the  personal  and  the  territorial  elemeut^;  the 
maritiaie  element  alone  is  wanting,  and  this  we 
may  obtain  by  the  union  of  the  provinces. 


833 


(Hear,  hear.)  As  to  us,  French-Canadians 
and  Catholics,  what  have  we  to  fear  from  Con- 
federation ?  Our  language,  our  rights  and 
our  privileges  are  guaranteed  to  us.  Look 
at  the  United  Kingdom  of  Great  Britain  and 
Ireland  ;  does  it  not  consist  of  three  distinct 
nations,  holding  several  religious  creeds  ? 
Those  three  nations  have  fought  side  by  side 
on  sea  and  land  for  ages,  against  the  enemies 
of  their  country.  What  glorious  victories, 
what  noble  deeds  in  arms  have  they  achieved  ! 
And  the  most  perfect  harmony  exists  among 
them.  In  England,  are  the  Jews  persecuted, 
deprived  of  their  rights  and  privileges  ?  Are 
the  Roman  Catholics?  Is  there  not  residing 
in  the  very  capital  of  England  a  prince  of 
the  Romish  Church  —  Cardinal  Wiseman? 
And,  Mr.  Speaker,  who  would  have  believed 
the  f;ict? — the  last  census  shows  that  the  city 
of  London  contains  100,000  Catholics  more 
than  Rome  itself — Rome  the  seat  of  the  Ca- 
tholic Church !  And  a  greater  number  of 
Jews  than  there  are  in  Judea  or  all  Pales- 
tine !  (Hear,  hear.)  And  yet  all  these  peo- 
ple enjoy  their  respective  rights  and  privi- 
leges, and  worship  their  Creator  according  to 
the  traditions  of  their  forefathers,  unmolest- 
ed, undisturbed  by  any.  (Cheers.)  I  now 
come  to  the  plan  of  Confederation  considered 
intrinsically.  I  shall  not  enter  into  a  discus- 
sion of  its  details ;  four  members  of  the  Ad- 
ministration have  given  us  explanations  of  it 
which  were  so  clear  and  lucid,  that  it  is  use- 
less to  enter  on  the  subject  anew.  There 
are,  no  doubt,  certain  points  which  are  not 
all  that  we  could  desire ;  there  are  certain 
articles  which  I  should  be  disposed  to  reject 
if  I  were  not  aware  that  we  are  to  look  at 
the  question  from  five  different  points  of 
view,  and  not  from  one  sectional  point  of 
view.  I  can  conceive  that  the  Conference  con- 
sidered the  plan  as  a  compromise — a  treaty  in 
which  the  five  provinces  were  the  contracting 
paities;  that  many  concessions  were  found  to 
Le  necessary,  to  satisfy  the  interests  of  indi- 
viduals or  of  localities ;  that  great  conciliation 
was  an  important  element,  wit  a  strong 
wish,  by  great  concessions  on  all  sides,  to 
carry  forward  an  important  negotiation, 
which  in  their  absence  would  have  utterly 
failed  !  I  am,  moreover,  convinced  that  the 
Ministers  of  Canada  did  everything  in  their 
power  to  promote  and  guard  our  general  and 
local  interests ;  that  their  only  aim  was  to 
make  us  a  great  and  strong  nation  ;  that  the 
dominant  idea  in  their  minds  was  that  "  a 
Federal  union,"  under  the  protection  of 
England,  would  be  for  Canada  a  harbor  of 
106 


refuge  from  all  storms,  particularly  that 
which  now  assails  us,  as  well  as  conducive 
to  advance  the  best  interests  and  the  pros- 
perity of  all  the  provinces  ;  that  this  union 
would  secure  to  us  the  continued  enjoyment 
of  our  laws  an  !  institutions,  of  our  liberties 
and  our  relations  with  the  Mother  Country, 
while  it  would  facilitate  the  development  of 
our  national,  social,  commercial  and  politi- 
cal prosperity.  If  we  do  not  adopt  it  as  a 
whole,  if  we  meddle  with  its  clauses  to  make 
radical  changes  in  it,  the  other  contracting 
parties,  justly  offended,  will  reject  it  wholly, 
as  they  understand  that  we  have  no  right  to 
depart  from  its  provisions  without  their 
consent;  or  if  following  our  example,  the 
Maritime  Provinces  should  also  make  changes 

■  >  ^ 

in  it,  the  whole  plan  would  be  so  mutilated 
and  disfigured,  that  it  would  become  a 
mark  for  universal  disapprobation,  and  all 
the  labors  of  the  Conference  would  be  ren- 
dered useless  and  abortive.  Moreover,  if  in 
the  meantime  the  Maritime  Provinces,  tak- 
ing up  again  tlieir  old  scheme  of  a  union 
among  themselves,  should  refuse  to  listen 
to  any  overtuses  we  might  make,  we  should, 
like  madmen,  have  lost  the  goldea  op- 
portunity. Nothing  would  remain  for  us 
but  annexation  to  the  United  States — 
an  idea  most  abhorrcn'  to  my  feelings, 
but  one  which  is,  perhaps,  in  reality, 
the  cherished  desire  of  the  unreasoning 
opponents  of  the  present  measure.  (Hear) 
As  a  British  subject,  I  find  most  pleasure  in 
that  article  of  the  scheme  which  declares 
the  Sovereign  of  G-reafc  Britain  to  be  the 
head  of  the  Executive.  The  monarchical 
element  will  predominate  in  the  Constitution, 
and  we  shall  thus  escape  that  weakness 
which  is  inherent  in  the  Constitution  of  the 
neighboring  States.  Their  President,  Mr. 
Speaker,  is  no  more  than  the  fortunate 
chief  of  a  party ;  he  can  never  be  regarded 
as  the  father  of  his  people;  his  reign  is  but 
temporary ;  he  is,  for  four  years,  a  kind  of 
despot,  with  unlimited  power  and  i;;  mense 
patronage ;  his  favors  fall  on  those  only  who 
have  elected  him,  and  who  can  elect  him 
anew  at  the  expiration  of  four  years;  none 
feel  the  refreshing  dews  of  his  favors,  save 
his  party.  Woe  to  the  unlucky  ones  who 
have  voted  against  him  at  his  election  !  For 
them  there  is  no  smile,  no  gracious  accep- 
tance, no  favors.  Under  the  working  of  our 
Constitution,  on  the  contrary,  as  the 
soveroign  is  permanent  ("the  King  is  dead — 
God  save  the  King  !  ")  we  have  at  all  times 
in  him  a  father,  whose  interest  and  whose 


SSI 


inclination  it   is   to    extend    his    protection 
equally  over  the  cottage  of  the  poor  and  over 
the  palace  of  the  rich,  and  to  dispense  equal 
justice  to  both.     (Cheers.)     Our  Ministers 
will  still   be  responsible   to  the   people.     In 
the  States,  the  President  is  under  no  obliga- 
tion    to    consult    his     Cabinet,    vrhich    is 
composed  merely  of  the  heads    of  depart- 
ments.   In  the  scheme   which  now  engages 
our  attention,  all  matteis  of  general  interest, 
which  are  not  left  to  be  disposed  of  by  the 
local    legislatures,   will    be   settled  by    the 
General  or   Central    Government,  and    the 
disposal  of  local  matters  will  belong  to  the 
local  governments.     Accordingly  all  neces- 
sary power  has  been  assigned  to  the  general 
as  to  the  local  legislatures ;  and  that  source 
of  weakness  has  been   avoided    which    has 
been  so  frequent  a  cause  of  trouble   in  the 
neighboring  States — the  conflict  of  jurisdic- 
tion and  authority  between  single  states  and 
the   Federal    or   Central    authority.       It   is 
really  astonishing  to  see  the  different  means 
employed   by  the  journals   in   the  interest 
cf  the  unreasoning  opponents  of  the  plan  of 
Confederation.     They  utter  cries  of  distress, 
amidst  which  the  veil  of  party  is  easily  seen 
through.     According  to  their  views,  no  good 
can  come  out  of  the  system  for  either  party  in 
the  cooimonwealth.     "  Think  twice  of  what 
you  are  doing,  you  English   Protestants  of 
Lower  Canada  I  The  Local  Government  will 
swallow  you  up,"  crie'i  the  3Jo7it7-eal  Witness. 
"  Take  care  of  yourselves,  you  French-Cana- 
dians of  the  Catholic  Church  I"  bellows  the 
Montreal  True  Witness  ;  "  if  the  plan  of  Con- 
federation is  sanctioned  by  the  Legislature, 
you  will  disappear  like  a  dream  :  the  hydra 
of  the  Central  Government  will  poison  you 
with  its  pestiferous  breath.''     (Hear,  hear. J 
And   the  other  journals  of  the  same  party, 
inspired  by  the  same  spirit,  open  full  cry  on 
the  plan   of   Confederation,  as   nothing  less 
than  a  "  political  suicide  !"     Others   there 
are — and  some  in  the  interest  of  the  present 
Government — who   have  some    misgivings, 
some  doubts,  touching  the  clauses  relating 
to  marriage  and   divorce.     With  respect  to 
the  provision«  of  the  instrument  which  bears 
on  these  two  important  questions,  they  seem 
at  first  sight,  I  confess,  a   little  alarming  to 
Catholics — to  us  who  have  learned  from  the 
Church    the  indissolubility  of  the  marriage 
bond,  who  look  upon  marriage  not  only  as  a 
civil  contract,  but   "  a  sacrament."     With 
reference  to  this  subject,  I  answer  that  the 
system  on  which   the  new  Constitution  will 
be  based  is  to  be  considered  in  the  aspect 


which  it  bears  to  all  the  provinces.     We  are 
not  all  Catholics,  and  the  majority  are  Pro- 
testants.    Again,  if  the  control  of   matters 
connected  with  marriage   and  divorce  had 
been  assigned  to  the  locul  governments,  what 
would  have  been  the  fate  of  our  co-religion- 
ists in  Upper  Canada,  who  are  in  a  minority  in 
that  province  ?     Add  to  this,  we  have  not 
in  Canada  at   present  any  divorce    aw,  and 
we    need    not    apprehend  that   the  Federal 
Government    will     impose    one    upon    us. 
Nothing   indicates    that    the  proportion    of 
Catholic  members  in  the  Federal  Legislature 
will  not  be  about  equal  to  what  it  is  in  the  Par- 
liament of  United  Canada.     Moreover,  ever}- 
body  is  aware  that  it  was  by  the  help  of  the 
Protestants,   who  think  as   we  do    on   this 
subject,  that  we  have  hitherto  escaped  the 
passing   of  a  divorce   la"w.     Divorce   is  not 
looked    upon   with   a  favorable   eye    by    all 
Protestants  ;  far  from  it,  and  we  must  hope 
that  at  no  distant  time  that  source  of  disorder 
and  seandil  of  every  species  will  be  effaced 
from  the    parliamentary    records    of   every 
Christian    community.     (Hear,  hear.)     We 
must   bear    in    mind,  also,    that    there    are 
Catholics  elsewhere  besides  in  Lower  and  Up- 
per Canada  ;  they  are  to  be  found  in  all  the 
Lower  Provinces,  and  what  would  be  their 
position  if  these  questions  were  left  lo  the 
local   legislatures?      The    Catholics,   there- 
fore, of  both  Upper  and  Lower  Canada,  as 
well  as  those   of  the  Lower   Provinces,   are 
directly  interested   in   the  removal  of  these 
questions    from   the    local  legislatures.      It 
seems  to  me  that   every  man  who  studies 
this  question   in   a   Catholic  point  of  view, 
as  it  stands  in  the  five  provinces,  will  find 
that  the  Conference  was  perfectly  right  in 
not  leaving  the  question  of  divorce  to  the 
control   of  the  local  governments      i  shall 
noc  enter  into  all  the  details  of  the  plan  of 
Confederation,  inasmuch  as  hereafter   each 
of  its    clauses    will    be   discussed.     I   shall 
reserve,  however,  the  right  of  adding  a  few 
words.     I  think,  therefore,   Mr.  Speake;, 
that  every  man  who  has  the  interests  of  his 
country  at  heart — every  man  who  will  take 
the  pains  to  read  hi.story,  the  great   teacher 
of  kings  and  nations,  will   be  convinced  that 
situated  as  arc  the  five  provinces  of  British 
North  America,  separated,  disunited,  with  no 
social,  political  or  commercial   ties  to  bind 
them  together,  but  having  tariffs  calculated  to 
injure  each  other,  but  no  free  interchange  ot 
commodities— without  railways  by  which  they 
might  hold  romiiiunication  during  the  long 
winters,  when  t!i«  rivers  are  obstructed  with 


835 


ice,  and  taking  into  consideration  the  excep- 
tional position  of  Canada  in  respect  of  its  near 
neighborhood  to  the  United  States,  and  the 
political  troubles  which  have  so  long  wounded 
it  in  its  bosom — a  Federal  union  of  all  the  pro- 
vinces is  our  only  harbor  of  reiuge,  and  the 
only  means  of  securing  to  the  Provinces  of 
British  North  America  sure  and  durable  pros- 
perity. (Hear,  and  cheers.)  Now,  Mr.  Speak- 
er, we  have  seen  that  in  ancient  days,  in  the 
middle  ages,   and  in  modern   times,  states, 
provinces  and  kingdoms  desirous  of  growing 
in  strength,  wealth  and  prosperity — desirous 
of  acquiring   power  internally,  and   making 
themselves    formidable   to    rivals    abroad — 
desirous  of  means  to  repeal  ambitious  assail- 
ants and  enterprising  neighbors — combined 
together — formed  confederations  with  a  view 
to  increase  the  general  prosperity,  and  the 
means  of  a  common  defence  and  mutual  pro- 
tection. We  have  seen  that  it  was  the  surest, 
the  most  rational,  and  the   most  generally 
adopted  plan  in   all  ages ;  and   why  should 
not    we,    profiting    by    the    experience    of 
others,  do  the  same  ?     How  long  has  union 
been  a  cause  of  weakness  ?     Is  not  England, 
united    under    one    ruler,    infinitely    more 
powerful  than  in  the  days  of  the  Heptarcliy 
or    Seven    Kingdoms  ?     Are   not  the  forty 
states  which  compose  the  Grermanic  Confed- 
eration   stronger,    more     powerful,    united, 
than  they  would  be  if  isolated  and  separate  ? 
Would  each  individual  state,  if  alone,  left  to 
its  own  resources,  without  free  trade  with  its 
neighbors,  without  social,  political   or  com- 
mercial relations,  be  richer,  more  prosperous 
than  it  is  now,  joined,  united  and  allied  to 
the  rest?     And  in  the  United  Kingdom  of 
Great   Britain,    where   a   kind    of  Federal 
union  is  found,  is  not  each  nationality,  every 
sect   and  every  religion   fully  and  entirely 
protected  and  guarded   from  the  attacks  of 
bigotry  and  of  political  and  religious  intoler- 
ance ?     After  the  States  had  separated  from 
England  in  1775,  would  they  have  done  better 
to  remain  in  the  position  of  thirteen  colonies 
detached  from   each  other,  without  social, 
commercial,    or   political    relations,    as   the 
colonies  of  British  North  America  now  are, 
than  to  form  a  compact  as  they  did  ?     Is  it 
not  from  that  union  that  their  strength  has 
grown,  that  they  have  become  so   powerful, 
so  rich,  so  independent  of  the   rest   of  the 
world,  and  the  admiration  of  modern  times  ? 
So  would  they  have   continued  to   advance 
too,    with    giant    strides,    in    the    path  of 
progress    and   improvement,  if  the   demon 
of  civil  war  had  not  arisen  to  break  up  a 


union   but    lately   so    happy   and  so   pros- 
perous !     Let    us    avail    ourselves    ot     the 
example   of  others,  and   of  the   auspicious 
circumstances  which  seem  to  have  occurred 
expressly   and   opportunely  for   our   benefit, 
and  let  us  resolve  to  become  a  great  empire. 
Is  it  not  asserted  that,  if  a  union  of  the  pro- 
vinces  should  be   eff"ected,  we   should  be,  at 
the  least,  the   fourth  maritime  power  in  the 
world  ?     Are  there  not  kingdoms — confeder- 
ations— in  Europe  which  would  be  numeri- 
cally inferior  to  us  ?     Belgium  has  no  more 
than   4,500,000    of  inhabitants;    Denmark, 
including    the    Duchies,     no     more     than 
2,500,000 ;  the  Kingdom  of  Bavaria,  4,500,- 
000;  the  Kingdom    of   Greece,   1,000,000 
the  States  of  the  Church,  3,000,000 ;   Por- 
tugal, 3,500,000;  Sweden,  3,500,000;  Nor- 
way,   1,500,000  ;    the    Helvetic    Confeder- 
ation, 2,500,000 ;  while   the  proposed  Con- 
federation will  soon  contain  5,000,000 ;  and 
yet  these  provinces  are  but  in  their  infancy, 
we  may  say.    Any  one  who  has  the  slightest 
knowledge   of  the  natural   riches    and    the 
resources  of  the  five  provinces,  and  of  the 
energy  and  love  of  labor  which  characterise 
the  different  races  which  people  them,  may 
safely  predict  a  brilliant  future  for  our  new 
Confederacy.      (Hear,    hear.)     Is    there    a 
single  Canadian  who  does    not   know   that 
Canada  will   always  hold   the  first  and  most 
exalted  position  in  the  (^nfederacy  ?     Lower 
Canada,  especially,  will  be  the  centre  of  the 
industrial    arts   and    commerce,    the    point 
towards  which   all  the  rich   produce  of  the 
west,  and  the  oil,  fish  and   coal   of  the  east, 
will  naturally  be  brought ;    Lower  Cana'la, 
especially,  which  is  so  rich  in  mines,  ores,  and 
minerals.     Do  we  not  know  that  certain  great 
capitalists  have  recently  formed   companies 
on  a  vast  scale,  to  work   the  rich   gold  and 
silver  mines  of  the  district  of  Beauce  ?     Do 
not    the    geologists,    who     have    explored 
that  region,   tell  us  that  it  contains  copper, 
silver  and  gold,  scattered  in  rich  abundance 
over  hundreds  of  square  miles.     (Cheers.) 
Canada  possesses  a  territory  of  about  360,- 
000    square    miles— 160,000,000    of    acres 
of    land,    of  which    40,000,000    are     con- 
ceded;    11,000,000    are   under    cultivation. 
Canada  possesses  above  2,000  miles  of  rail- 
way,   which   intersect  the   province    in    all 
directions ;  it  has  4,500  miles  of  telegraph 
line  ;  it   possesses,   moreover,   250  miles  of 
canal,  which  carried,  in  1863,  3,000,000  tous 
of  freight,  and  gave  a  revenue  to  the  Pro- 
vincial   Government    of    nearly    $400,000. 
(Hear,     hear.)      There    are    hundreds    of 


836 


rivers  in  Canada,  three  of  which,  with 
their  tributaries,  water  a  surface  of  150,000 
square  miles.  Five  or  six  of  the  lakes  cover 
a  surface  of  84,000  square  miles.  The 
mails  are  carried  over  15,000  miles  of  road, 
in  which  distance  there  are  2,000  post-ofl&ces, 
which  annually  distribute  ]1,00'*,U0U  of 
letters,  besides  newspapers.  THear,  hear.) 
The  mineral  wealth  ot  Canada  is  almost 
fabuluus,  and  awaits  only  the  introduction 
of  English  and  American  capital  to  astonish 
the  world.  (Hear,  hear.)  The  Acton  copper 
mine,  in  Lower  Canada,  is  perhaps  the 
richest  existing.  The  copper  mines  of  Lake 
Superior  are  already  famous  for  their  extent 
and  the  richness  of  the  ore  ;  and  the  iron 
mines  ol'  St.  Maurice  and  Lake  Superior  are 
supposed  to  be  inexhaustible  According 
to  Sir  William  Logan,  our  learned  geolo- 
gist, there  are  iron  mines  of  great  value  in 
the  sc'ignif  ry  of  Vaudreuil  and  on  the  out- 
skirts of  the  parish  of  St.  .Martha,  in  the 
county  of  Vaudreuil.  The  diggings  in  the 
aurilerous  river  of  the  Chi.cdi^re  and  the 
Gilbert,  in  the  Eastern  Townships,  have 
been  very  productive  during  the  last  two 
years.  A  new  company  has  just  been 
formed  at  New  York,  with  a  capital  of  five 
millions  of  dollars,  to  work  on  the  Chaudi^re. 
The  capital  stock  of  the  companies  and 
private  persons  now  engaged  in  this  pursuit 
is  reckoned  by  millions.  The  Trade 
Returns  shew  that  the  produce  of  the  mine 
exported  Irom  Canada  has  been  nearly  nine 
hundred  thousand  dollars.  The  manufac- 
tures of  Canada  are  extensive.  Those  of 
lumber  occupv  upwards  of  two  thousand  saw- 
mills, which  turn  out  annually  nearly  eight 
million  leet  of  timber.  There  are  more 
than  two  hundred  distilleries  and  breweries, 
which  produced  la^t  year  more  than  nine 
million  gallons  of  spirituous  or  fermented 
liquors,  yielding  au  excise  duty  of  more 
thau  S700,000.  (Hear,  hear.)  These  dis- 
tilleries and  breweries  consume  more 
than  1,500,000  bushels  of  grain  and  malt 
The  country  contains  at  least  1,000  grist 
mills  for  the  grinding  of  wheat  and  oatsj 
250  carriage  factories,  nearly  200  foundries, 
200  carding  mills,  L-iO  cloth  mills,  and 
500  tanneries.  Other  establisLmenfs  of  less 
account  are  innumerable.  Canada  produces 
annuHly  between  25,000,000  and  30,0011.000 
bushels  of  wheat,  12,000, OOU  bushtls  of  peas, 
40,000,000  bushels  of  oata,  more  than 
1,500,000  tons  of  hay,  i:{,0»)0,000  bushels  of 
buckwheat,  28,000,000   bushels  of  potatoes, 


and  10,000,000  bushels  of  turnips.  Canada 
consumes  30,000,000  pounds  of  beef,  shears 
5,500,000  pounds  of  wool,  and  makes  from 
42,000,000' to  45,000,000  pounds  of  butter. 
The  cattle,  milch  cows,  horses,  sheep  and 
p'gs  owued  in  Canada  are  above  two  milliuns 
in  number.  The  fisheries  yield  to  the  value 
of  two  million  dollars  annually.  It  appears 
that  Lower  Canada  alone  owns  2,500  fishing 
vessels.  The  Magdalen  Islands,  which 
belong  to  Canada,  send  out  to  the  fisheries 
270  boats.  The  capital  stock  of  the  banks 
in  Canada,  which  have  a  charter,  amounts  (o 
§33,000,000.  Here  is  real  wealth,  and  yet 
our  country  is  still  in  its  infancy,  if  I  may 
be  allowed  to  use  the  expression  ;  and  the 
third  part  of  this  beautilul  country  is  still 
uninhabited  ;  what  will  it  be  when  inhabited, 
cleared  and  settled  in  every  direction  'i  From 
all  quarters  men  will  come — some  to  obtain 
a  nook  of  land  which  they  can  really  call 
their  own  ;  others  to  escape  from  the  horrors 
of  civil  war  and  the  ruiuous  taxes  which  bow 
them  down  to  the  earth.  Here  we  have  peace 
and  tranquillity — good  air — room  enough  — 
a  superabundance  of  land — and  the  virgin 
forest  wooing  the  axe  ol'  the  woodman,  to  be 
converted  into  fertile  farms;  here,  above  all, 
we  have  tlie  '*  birth-right  of  man."  liberty 
in  all  its  purity.  (Hear,  hear.)  It  is  time, 
Canadians,  that  we  should  withdraw  from  the 
political  dilemma  in  which  we  are  involved. 
If  we  reject  the  plan  of  Confederation,  we  fall 
back  into  a  species  of  status  quo  ;  now,  for  a 
new  country  like  ours,  to  remain  stationary  is 
to  retrogade  I  Let  us  not  forget  that  British 
North  America  contains  other  provinces 
besides  these  of  ours,  namely,  British  Col- 
umbia, Vancouver,  &c.,  which  will  hereafter 
form  a  part  of  the  Confederation  ;  th;  t  those 
vast  countries  are  in  extent  as  large  as  all 
Europe  ;  that  the  soil  in  many  places  is  of 
marvellous  fertility;  that  the  day  will  come 
wht-n  the  greater  part  of  all  those  countries 
and  provinces  will  be  inhabited ;  that  there 
will  be  a  net-work  of  railway  connecting  the 
extremities  of  all  those  possessions,  and 
lines  of  steamboats  connecting  us,  not  with 
the  Mother  Country  only,  but  with  the 
whole  of  Europe,  and  that  at  all  seasons  of 
the  year.  When  we  all,  without  cxoeptioa, 
animated  by  the  sanie  spirit,  struggling  after 
the  good,  after  the  prosperity  of  our  common 
country,  shall  see  rising  around  us  u  vast 
empire  uuder  the  protectorate  of  England, 
we  shall  then  understand  the  political  saga- 
I  city  of  tho8«  who,  now  steering  the  vessel 


837 


of  State,  have  broug-hfc  before  us  and  car- 
ried through  the  scheme  of  Confederation 
proposed.  There  may  be  certain  faults  of 
detail  in  the  system  :  I  grant  that  there  are. 
But?  does  not  every  work  of  man  bear  the 
impress  of  imperft'ctioo  ?  Is  the  celebrated 
Code  Napcieon  perfect?  The  most  cele- 
brated French  lawyers  do  not  think  it  so;  and 
yet  this  production  is  a  master-piece  of 
legislation  in  many  respects.  Does  not  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  contain 
faults  ?  and  yet  it  is  said  to  be  a  model 
work  of  its  kind.  I  am  of  opinion  that  the 
plan  of  Confederation,  taken  as  a  whole,  is 
the  best  we  could  desire  or  hope  for,  adapted, 
as  it  had  to  be,  to  the  well-understood 
interests  of  the  five  provinces.  j.'o  consider 
it  from  a  purely  sectional  point  of  view, 
would  be  to  misunderstancithe  position  which 
a  statesman  should  occupy.  If  however,  Mr. 
Speaker,  the  unreasoning  opponents  of  the 
proposed  measure  were  able  to  suggest  any 
means  of  meeting  eventualities,  and  point 
out  a  way  by  which,  while  rejecting  the 
scheme  proposed,  we  might  find  some  prac- 
tical mode  of  escape  from  our  difficulties, 
I  should  then  be  disposed  to  listen  to  tliem, 
and  to  compare  their  scheme  with  that 
which  is  now  before  us ;  but  those  gentle- 
men think  it  sufficient  to  blame  and  criticise. 
The  celebrated  i\Jr.  Rameau  even  (the 
author  of  La  France  aux  Colonies),  from 
his  retirement  in  distant  France,  sends  forth 
a  cry  of  alarm  at  the  dangers  with  which 
he  thinks  Confederation  is  pregnant,  but 
not  a  word  of  good  counsel  or  of  a  better 
remedy  of  his  own.  Others  cry  aloud  from 
the  house-tops  that  this  scheme  is  not  a 
"  Federal  union,"  but  a  Legislative  one  in 
every  point !  If  it  were  so,  Mr.  Speaker, 
I  should  be  the  first — and  I  proclaim  it 
uere  before  the  whole  country — I  should 
be  the  first  to  scout  and  reject  the  scheme 
with  all  the  power  which  Providence  has 
given  me ;  but  as  it  is,  on  the  contrary, 
a  Federal  union,  in  the  full  force  of  the 
term,  having  a  Central  Government  invested 
with  all  the  power  necessary  to  obviate  and 
remedy  the  weakness  which  characterises 
Federal  Government  in  the  American  union, 
giving,  in  a  special  n.anner,  to  each  province 
the  management  of  its  own  local  affairs, 
and  to  its  inhabitants  full  and  unrestricted 
power  to  make  its  own  laws,  I  cannot,  for 
the  interest  of  my  constituents,  for  my 
country's  interest,  help  approving  of  a  mea- 
sure which,  while  it  respects  the  rights  and 


privileges  of  all,  will  have  the  effect  of 
increasing  the  individual  and  collective 
strength  of  the  five  provinces,  will  secure  to 
us  the  confidence  of  the  iVIother  Country, 
and  make  of  this  section  of  British  North 
America,  under  the  powerful  aegis  of  Eng- 
land, another  imperium  iu  imptrio.  (Cheers.) 
I  return  to  those  whose  cry  is,  "  But  our 
nationality  will  be  lost!  Our  language,  our 
civil  and  religious  institutions  will  disap- 
pear." 0  ye  who  cry  so  loudly,  and  who 
find  such  charms  in  the  neighboring  re- 
public, do  you  think  that  if  we  fell  into 
th-dt  whirl  of  divers  nations  and  different 
religious  composing  the  American  Confed- 
eracy, which  have  no  common  traditions  nor 
common  history  with  us,  French-Canadian 
natioiiality  would  long  enjoy  a  separate 
existence,  or  that  it  would  not  speedily 
be  lost  amidst  so  many  others  ?  Answer  if 
you  can,  and  I  will  believe  you.  (Cheers.) 
Consider  the  fate  of  Louisiania,  inhabited 
chiefly  by  French  !  Is  not  the  English 
element  in  a  majority  in  the  Parliament  of 
United  Canada  ?  And  have  I  not,  never- 
theless, the  honor  to  address  you  at  this 
moment  in  French  ?  in  that  beautiful  lan- 
guage of  our  ancestors  in  which  Jacques 
Cartier,  in  1535,  extolled  the  glories  of 
our  majestic  St.  Lawrence  !  (Cheers.) 
Would  you  know  one  of  the  reasons  assigned 
against  General  Fremont  when  he  was  a 
candidate  for  the  Presidency  of  the  United 
States  a  few  years  ago  ?  "  Do  not  vote  for 
Fremont,"  was  the  cry  on  the  hustings  and 
in  the  papers  of  the  day;  "  Fremont  is  a 
Frenchman" — "■Fremont  is  a  Catholic" — 
and  Fremont  lost  his  election  accordingly. 
However,  Fr:6mont  was  not  a  Catholic !  but 
they  said  he  was,  and  it  was  a  crime  suffi- 
cient in  their  eyes  to  disqualify  him  in  his 
candidateship  for  their  confidence,  notwith- 
standing that  they  proclaim  'liberty  of  con- 
science !"  (Hear,  hear.)  Do  they  reject  a 
man  in  England  bc^iause  he  is  a  Catholic  ? 
Does  that  fact  debar  him  from  enjoying  the 
confidence  of  his  Sovereign  and  his  fellow- 
citizens  ?  Certainly  it  does  not,  and  there 
are  instances  to  prove  it.  Have  we  not  often 
seen.^in  Canada,  Catholics  representing  coun- 
ties essentially  Protestant?  Was  not  the 
county  of  Vaudreuil,  a  county  in  which 
Catholics  are  a  majority,  lately  represented 
by  an  English  Protestant  ?  Why  should  the 
English,  under  the  Confederation,  seek  to 
destroy  French-Canadian  nationality?  Whut 
interest  could  they  serve  in  doing  so  ?     la 


838 


1775,  and  in  i  812,  the  French-Canadians,  at 
the  call  of  their  clergy,  rose  as   one   man  to 
defend  the  Crown  of  England.    (Hear,  hear.) 
What  interest   have   the  English  to   induce 
them  to  sweep  away  our    religious   institu- 
tions ?     In  what  school  or  college  are  youth 
educated    with   greater    trilent    or    greater 
success — where    do    they    receive    a    more 
thorough   classical  education — than   in    our 
colleges?        Where     dees    a    young    man 
learn    his    duty    to    God,    to    himself,    to 
his  country   and    to   his   Sovereign   better 
than   in   our  Catholic   colleges?     (Cheers.) 
I  passed  ten  yefirs  of  my  life,  Mr.  Speaker, 
in  a  Catholic  college,  that  of  Montreal,  and 
if  I  did  not  profit   by  the  instruction  I  re- 
ceived, mine  is  the   fault;  in   that  house,  I 
heard  non  3  but  the  counsels  of  wisdom,  saw 
only  examples   of  virtue  in    the  venerable 
priests  who  were  intrusted  with  tbe  care  of 
my  youth.     (Cheers.)     Where  is  better  in- 
struction in  sigricuiture  to  be  had — agricul- 
ture, the  source  of  the  prosperity  .of  a  country 
— than  in  two  or  three   Catholic  colleges  in 
Lower  Canada  ?  Who  has  better  appreciated 
the   force  of  the  maxim,    "  The  soil  is  the 
country,^' than  the  Catholic  clergy?     What 
are  the  model  farms  founded  by  the  Govern- 
raeut  compared  with  the  model  farms  of  two 
or  three  of  our  colleges  ?     (  Hear,  hear.)    Is 
it  the  Catholic  clergy  themselves  who  would 
be  endangered  by  tlieConlederation  ?  There 
is  not  a  single  right-thinking  Englishman 
in  the  laud  who  will  not  stand  up  and  testify 
to  the  virtues  of  our  clergy  and  their  useful- 
ness in  the  country  !    Wherever  there  is  an 
asylun,  to  be  built,  or  ;t  house  of  refuge  for 
the  poor,  the  insane,  the  aged  or  the  orphan, 
then  and  there  you  see  the  clergy  foremost 
in  the  work,  first  to  set  the   example,  and 
often  deiraying  all  the  cost !     (Hear,  hear.) 
If  the   Queen   of  England   desires  to   see  a 
faithful  subject,  on  this  side  of  the  Atlantic, 
She  will  asi-uredly  find   him  in  the  ranks  of 
the  clergy  !     If  the  country  calls  lor  a  zeal- 
ous citizeo ,  animated  by  the  noblest  patriotism, 
the  call  will  first  be  auhwcred  unmistakably 
by  a  priest — I  y  one  of  those  men  who  seek 
no  other  reward   for  their  actions  than  the 
approbation  of  their  own  conscience — by  one 
of    those    who    perfectly    comprehend    the 
maxim  that  "  the  poetry  of  life  is  the  fulfil- 
ment of  duty" — by   one  of  those  wise   but 
modest  men,  as  humble  as  they  are   pious, 
who,  standing  ever  constant  at  the  post  which 
Providence  has  assigned   to  them,  instruct 
the  young,  encourage  the  good,  seek  to  bring 


back  the  sinner  into  the  paths  of  virtue,  obey 
the  laws  and  teach  that  obedience  to  others, 
pray  daily  for  the  happiness  and  prosperity 
of  "  Our  Gracious  Sovereign"  and  of  the 
Mother  Country,  visit  the  poor  in  garret 
and  cellar,  soothe  the  sufferings,  moral  and 
physical,  of  the  siok  and  dying,  and  finally 
point  out  the  road  to  heaven — they  them- 
selves leading  the  way  I  (Prolonged  cheers  ) 
What  have  such  men  to  fear  from  Confeder- 
ation ?  Nothing.  No,  Mr.  Speaker,  such 
men  have  nothing  to  fear  !  England  loves 
and  reveres  our  clerey,  and  sees  in  them 
loyal  and  faithful  subjects  of  the  Queen. 
(Cheers.)  Would  you  see  an  instance  of 
what  the  Catholic  clergy  can  do  when  the 
country  wants  a  man  of  courage  ?  All  know 
that  the  country  is  in  a  political  dilemma, 
that  the  machine*  of  government  is  at  a 
stand,  that  the  sound  of  a  mighty  tempest 
is  heard  from  afar ;  that  the  fate  of 
the  country  is  traced  out  in  feeble  and 
wavering  lines  in  an  uncertain  future,  over- 
shadowed with  threatening  clouds  filling  a 
void  of  conjecture  and  doubt ;  ♦^hat  the 
moment  is  come  for  the  true  friends  of  their 
country — for  men  of  education — to  declare 
their  views  on  the  course  to  be  taken  to  save 
the  country  from  the  danger  impending  and 
the  perils  of  actual  events.  Well,  here  too 
we  have  a  member  of  the  Catholic  clergy 
boldly  standing  forth  to  give  his  opinion  on 
the  subject,  and  counsel  us  in  this  melan- 
choly crisis  I  I  will  read  to  you  an  extract 
of  the  letter  of  the  Catholic  Archbishop 
Connolly  of  Halifax,  on  the  subject  of 
Confederation  : — 

Instead  of  cursing,  like  the  boys  in  the  up- 
turned boat  and  holding  on  until  we  are  fairly 
on  the  brink  of  the  cataract,  we  must  at  once 
begin  to  pray  and  strike  out  for  the  shore  by  all 
noeans,  before  we  get  too  far  down  on  the  current. 
We  must,  at  this  most  critical  moment,  invoke  the 
Arbiter  of  nations  for  wisdom,  and  abandoning 
in  time  our  perilous  position,  we  must  strike  out 
boldly,  and  at  some  risk,  for  some  rock  on  the 
nearest  shore — some  resting  place  of  greater 
security.  A  cavalry  raid  visit  from  our 
Fenian  frienda  through  the  plains  of  Canada 
and  the  fertile  valleys  of  New  lirunswick  and 
Nova  Scotia,  may  cost  more  in  a  single  week 
than  Confederation  for  the  next  fifty  yeais; 
and  if  we  are  to  believe  you,  where  is  the  security, 
even  at  the  present  moment,  ajjainstsnch  a  disas- 
ter? Without  the  whol«  power  of  the  Mother 
Country  by  land  and  sen,  and  the  coiuentration  in 
a  single  hand  of  all  the  strength  of  British  Ame- 
rica, our  condition  is  seen  at  a  glanie.  Whenever 
the  present  diflficulties  will  terminato- and  who  can 


839 


tell  the  moment  ? — we  shall  be  at  the  mercy  of 
our  neighbois  ;  and  victorious  or  otherwise,  they 
will  be  eminently  a  milit  iry  people,  and  with  all 
their  apparent  indifference  about  annexing  this 
country,  and  all  the  friendly  feelings  that  may  be 
talkefl  of,  they  will  have  the  power  to  strike  when 
they  please,  and  this  is  precisely  the  kernel  and 
the  only  touch-point  of  the  whole  question.  No 
nation  ever  had  the  power  of  conquest  that  did 
not  use  it,  or  abuse  it,  at  the  very  first  favorable 
opportunity.  All  that  is  said  of  the  magnanimity 
and  forbearance  of  mighty  nations  can  be  explain- 
ed on  the  principle  of  sheer  expediency,  as  the 
world  knows.  The  whole  face  of  Europe  has 
been  changed,  and  the  dynasties  of  many  hundred 
years  have  been  swept  away  within  our  own  time, 
on  the  principle  of  might  alone — the  oldest,  the 
strongest,  and  as  some  would  have  it,  the  most 
sacred  of  titles.  The  thirteen  original  states 
of  America,  with  all  their  professions  of  self- 
denial,  have  been  all  the  time,  by  money  power 
and  by  war,  and  by  negotiation,  extending  their 
frontier  until  they  more  than  quadrupled  their  ter- 
ritory within  sixty  years  ;  and  believe  it  who  may, 
are  they  now  of  their  own  accord  to  come  to  a 
full  stop  ?  No  ;  as  long  as  they  have  the  power, 
thej  must  go  onward :  lor  it  is  the  very  nature 
of  power  to  grip  whatever  is  within  its  reach.  It 
is  not  their  hostile  feelings,  therefore,  but  it  is 
their  power,  and  only  their  power,  I  dread ;  and 
I  now  state  it  as  my  solemn  conviction,  that  it 
becomes  the  duty  of  every  British  subject  in  these 
provinces  to  control  that  power,  not  by  the  insane 
policy  of  attacking  or  weakening  them,  but  by 
strengthening  or.rselves — rising,  with  the  whole 
of  Britain  at  our  back,  to  their  level,  and  so 
be  prepared  for  any  emergency.  There  is  no 
sensible  or  unprejudiced  man  in  the  community 
who  does  not  see  that  vigorous  and  timely  pre- 
paration is  the  only  possible  means  of  saving  us 
from  the  horrors  of  a  war  such  as  the  world  has 
never  seen.  To  be  fully  prepared  is  the  only 
practical  argument  that  can  have  weight  with  a 
powerful  enemy,  and  make  him  pause  beforehand 
and  count  the  cost.  And  as  the  sort  of  prepara- 
tion I  speak  of  is  utterly  hopeless  without  the 
union  of  the  provinces,  so  at  a  moment  when 
public  opinion  is  being  formed  on  this  vital  point, 
as  one  deeply  concerned,  I  feel  it  a  duty  to  declare 
myself  unequivocally  in  favor  of  Confederation  as 
cheaply  and  as  honorably  obtained  as  possible — 
but  Confederation  at  all  hazards  and  at  all 
reasonable  sacrifices.  After  the  most  mature 
consideration,  and  all  the  arguments  I  have 
heard  on  both  sides  for  the  last  month,  these  are 
my  inmost  convictions  on  the  necessity  and  merits 
of  a  measure  which  alone,  under  Providence,  can 
secure  jto^jus  ^social  order,  peace,  and  rational 
liberty,  and  all  the  blessings  we  now  enjoy  under 
the  mildest  Government  and  the  hallowed  institu- 
tions of  the  freest  and  happiest  country  in  the 
world. 

This  letter  is  dated  iu  January,  1865.  The 
Catholic  Bishop  of  the  Island  of  Newfound- 
land, Monseigneur  Mulloch,  has  also  written 


a  magnificent  letter  in  favor  of  Confederation. 
Moreover,  Mr.  Speakeh,  when  the  time 
comes,  our  Catholic  clertry — our  (Jauadian 
clergy — will  make  their  voices  heard  in  fiivor 
of  the  proposed  measure,  and  will  show  the 
whole  world  that  now,  as  formerly,  they  can 
keep  pace  with  the  times — that  they  can 
distinguish  the  true  from  the  false,  and  that 
their  paternal  eyes  watch  with  the  tenderest 
solicitude  over  the  destinies  of  their  children. 
fLoud  cheers.)  Now,  Mr.  Speakicii,  let  us 
cast  a  glance  over  the  English  colonies  in 
Australia.  They,  like  us,  are  desirous  of 
taking  steps  to  form  a  Confederation,  to 
break  from  their  state  of  isolation,  stretching 
forth  their  arms  to  each  other  as  beloved 
sister?,  and  making  efforts  to  lay  the  founda- 
tion of  a  great  empire  on  the  distant  she  es 
of  Oceania.  (Hear,  hear.)  As  to  ourselves, 
let  us  show  England  that  our  hearts  yearn 
to  maintain  o  jr  connection  with  her,  and  she 
will  spend  her  last  soldier  and  last  shilling 
to  keep  and  defend  us  against  all  the  world, 
and  to  assist  us  to  become  a  great  and 
powerful  nation  Back  !  back  !  those  who 
think  that  England  will  '"•ast  us  off,  und  leave 
us  to  our  hard  fate.  Back  !  all  those  who, 
like  Bright,  Cobden,  Go.iDWiN  Smith, 
and  others  of  that  school,  weary  the  ear  with 
crying  that  Enghmd  loses  more  than  she 
gains  by  her  colonies  !  They  are  confronted 
by  the  logic  of  facts.  England,  without  her 
colonies,  would  be  a  power  of  the  second 
class.  Let  us  hear  what  Mr.  Laing,  late 
Minister  of  Finance  for  India,  said,  in  answer 
to  GoLDWiN  Smith  and  others  : — 

I  would  have  you  observe,  said  he,  that  our  for- 
eign possessions  are  by  far  our  best  customers, 
taken  together,  they  make  up  nearly  a  third  of 
our  import  trade,  and  a  half  of  our  export  tr^ide. 
British  India  holds  the  first  place  on  the  list,  and 
gives  us  nearly  £50,000.000  sterling  of  impurts, 
taking  in  return  £20,000,000  of  exports.  In  the 
present  year  these  figures  will  be  greatly  exceeded, 
and  the  rate  of  progress  is  more  distinctly 
marked  :  the  imports  having  been,  10  vears  ago, 
£10,672,000  only,  and  the  exports  £9,920,008. 
We  find  in  Australia  still  more  astonishing  re- 
sults, if  we  consider  the  recent  date  of  her  estab- 
lishment as  a  colony,  and  her  limited  population. 
Besides  gold,  she  sends  about  £7,000,000  of  im- 
ports, and  takes  from  us  £1H,000,  00  of  exports. 
The  North  American  colonies,  with  a  }iopulation 
also  British,  give  us  £8,00  ',000  of  imports,  and 
take  from  us  nearly  £5,000,00' '  of  *-xport8. 
The  small  island  of  the  Mauritius,  which  enjoys 
British  Government  and  thrives  with  British  capi- 
tal, sends  us  nearly  £2, 000, <  00  worth  per  year, 
and  takes  in  return  £5,000,000.  These  figures 
clearly  show  the  advantages  derived  to  commercQ 


840 


from"colonies,  and  confute  the  false  theories  of 
those  men^who  would  persuade  us  to  abandon  our 
distant  possessions  as  useless. 

Observe,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  these  enormous 
amounts  are  not  in  dollars,  but  pounds  ster- 
ling :  each  pound  being  worth   nearly  five 
dollars  of  our  money.     This  is   information 
for  those  who  think   that  colonies  are   of  no 
importance  to  England  ;  that  they  add  noth- 
ing to  her  grandeur,  her  power,  or  her  com- 
merce !     Those   who  know   anything  at  all 
of  England,  know  perfectly  well  that  she  is 
an    essentially    commercial  nation  —  perhaps 
the  most  commercial  nation  in  the  world— 
that   '•  that  nation   of  shop-keepers,"   as   it 
nas   called   by  Napoleon    I.,   has   always 
found  in  its  commerce  the  chief  element  of 
its    strength  ;    for    with    commerce    comes 
money,   from   money    men    to    carry   on   its 
wars.      The   ancient  Romans  knew  how  to 
conquer  provinces,  countries,  kingdoms,  be- 
cause their  genius  was  essentially  warlike  ; 
but  they  did  not  know  how  to  keep  them, 
because   they  had  not  what   chiefly   distin- 
guishes  England — a  genius   lor  commerce. 
Accordingly,  when  the  P^nglish  make  them- 
selvcH  masters  of  any  territory,  you  imme- 
diately see  a  crowd  of  traders  rush  into  it, 
build  stores,  find   out  the  resources  of  the 
country,  and  next  come  a  body  of  soldiers 
to  second  the  authority  of  justice,  and  enforce 
respect  for  law  and  order.     In  a  short  space 
of  time  you  see  a  nation,  but  lately  barburian, 
buried  in  sloth  and  inaction,  shake  oft"  the 
slough  of  infancy,  assume  a  difi"erent  aspect, 
grow     rich    and  prosperous,    and    in     turn 
.cooperate  in  adding  to  the  greatness  of  the 
Mother  Country.     (^Hear,  hear.j     Yes,  Mr 
Speaker,  England  is   bound   to  keep  us. 
Losing  us,  she   would,  at  a  future  day,  lose 
her  West  Indian  possessions,  and  would  enter 
on  the  first  phase  of  an  eclijise  which  she  is 
too  far-seeing  not  to  anticipate   and  avoid. 
(Hear,  hear.)     England  sees  with  pleas-ure 
the  eff'orts  wKich  our  Government  is  making 
to  carry  out  the  union  of  all  the  provinces, 
and  looks  upon  nur  luturs  ui  ion  as  a  i?tep  in 
the     right    direction — the     only     practical 
means    of    increasing    our    resources    and 
strengthening  our  power.     One  word,   Mr. 
SPtAKhR,    on    the    appeal    to    the    people. 
There  are  three  closses  of  men  in  society : 
those  who  deceive,  those  who  are  deceived, 
and    those   wlio    are    neither    deceiver.^   nor 
deceived.     I  take  my  place  advisedly  among 
the  last.     I  will  not  rank  as  a  deceiver  ;  and 
as  I  have  promised  my  constituents  that  I 


would   lay    before    them,    and    explain    the 
sclieme  of  Confederation,  with  all  its  details, 
bei'ore  giving  my  vote  finally,  I  am  at  all 
times  ready  to  do  so.      For  the  present,  I 
shall  vote  purely  and  simply  for  the  "  reso- 
lutions,"   because    I    am    in    favor    of    the 
principle   of     Confederation,    and    because, 
hereafter,  when  the  Mini.'^try  shall  have  laid 
befoie  us  the  plan  for  the  local  governments 
with  its  details,  then   will  be  the  time  to 
demand  an  appeal  to  the  people,  if  my  county 
requires  it  of  me.     To  ask  for  it  only  with 
relereuce  to  the  principle  of  Confederation, 
and  to  ask  for  it  again  when  we  shall  have 
the  plan  and  all   the   details  relating  to  the 
local  governments,  would  bean  absurdity; 
for  it  would  be  a  double  appeal  to  the  people 
on  two  parts  of  the  same  sclieme  of  Confed- 
eration, and   Consequently  two  elections  on 
the  back  of  each  other — a  needless  excess  of 
expense   and  trouble,  both    for  the  country 
and   the  members.     We  must  bear  in  mind 
that  after  the  two  electioiis  constituting  the 
double  appeal   to  the  people,  vre  must  have 
still  more  general  elections  to  inaugurate  the 
new  Parliament,  for  the  present  session  is  the 
third  of  this  Parliament.     I  would  not  be 
one  of  the  deceived  ;  and  I  shoui^i  bo  so  in 
a  stiikiijg  degree  if  I  allowed  myself  to  be 
cajoled    by    the    gentle     purrings    of    the 
Opposition,  who  make  a  show   of  agitation 
for  the  appeal  to  the  people,  only  that  they 
may  have   an    opportunity,   at  any  cost,  of 
defeating  the   scheme  ot  Confederation.     I 
maintain,  Mr.  Speaker,  that  the  Opposition 
have  not  the  slightest    wisli    to  go  to    the 
country  ;  and  wl  y  ?  because  if  the  Opposi- 
tion  had    really    and    truly  wished    for   an 
appeal  to  the  people,  they  would  at  any  time, 
within  this  last  fortnight  at  least,  have  made 
a  motion   in  this  House   expressive  of  their 
desire — as    a    preliminary  —  for    suih    an 
appeal  !     The  House  has  been  debating  this 
measure  three  or   four  weeks,  but  the  Oppo- 
sition have  not  shewn   the   least   dispos;tion 
to  move   lor  an    appeal  to  th;  people  ;  and, 
when   it  is  too  late,  they  will  come  forward 
with  such  a  motion — (hear,  hear) — and  then, 
when  they  do    not  carry  it,  they  would  go 
crying    throughout    the   land,   in    town  and 
country,   that    if  the    people  have   had   no 
voice    in    the    business,    it    is   no    fault  of 
theirs;  that  they   moved  heaven   and   earth 
— but  sucli    was    the    bull-headed  obstinacy 
of  the    iMiiiistry,   it  was  not  to  be  obtained  ; 
and     the    people    will     believe    them;    and 
we,  who  are  the  real,  the  best  fiicnds  of  the 
people,  we  shall   be  pointed   at  as  the  real 


8*1 


criminals  !  Poor  people  !  why  do  you  allow 
yourselves  to  be  deceived  ?  If  the  Ministers 
are  desirous  of  pushing  on  the  measure,  it 
is  because  of  the  check  which  the  Ministry 
of  New  Brunswick  have  just  had,  and 
because  it  is  for  us  to  use  all  diligence  to 
show  the  Mother  Country  that  we  do  not 
hang  fire,  but  are  ready  to  do  our  part  to 
carry  out  the  treaty  or  compromise  agreed 
on  by  the  delegates  at  the  Conference  held 
at  Quebec.  It  is  time  we  should  do  some- 
thing to  improve  our  position ;  for  the 
intended  revocation  of  the  treaty  of  recipro- 
city, the  probable  abolition  of  the  "transit" 
system,  and  other  tokens  of  iil-feelin^•  with 
which  President  Lincoln's  Message  of  the 
pr:sent  year  is  filled,  ar-j  enough  to  warn  us 
to  prepare  to  meet  the  storm  which  is 
blowing  up  on  the  political  horizon,  that  we 
ought  immediately  to  look  out  for  better 
shelter  tlian  we  have  at  present.  (Hear.) 
If,  hereafter,  an  appeal  to  the  people,  relative 
to  the  plan  and  details  of  the  local  govern- 
ments, becomes  necessary,  I  am  convinced 
that  a  majority  of  the  couutiec  of  both 
Canadas  will  understand  their  true  interests, 
will  be  able  to  distinguish  their  real  friends 
ii-om  those  who  aim  at  deceiving  them  by 
flattering  their  prejudices,  and  that  we  shall 
be  sent  back  to  this  place  with  full  powers  to 
vote  the  final  iidoption  of  the  scheme  of 
Confederation.  (Cheers.)  But  if  I,  for 
one,  am  civilly  told  that  I  must  stay  at  home, 
I  shall  have  the  satisfaction  of  saying  that 
I  have  fallen  like  a  man  who  preferred  his 
duty  to  a  fleeting  popularity  ;  and  although  it 
may  be  aa  easy  matter  for  the  fair  and 
intelligent  county  of  Vaudreuil  to  send  to 
this  House,  as  its  representative,  a  member 
more  competent  in  many  respects  than  I 
am,  I  venture  to  affirm  that  it  will  be  difficult 
to  find  any  one  who  has  more  at  heart  than 
I  have  the  interests,  the  happiness  and  the 
prosperity  of  his  country !  (Continued 
cheers  )  I  have  abundant  reason  to  believe 
that  the  people  will  comprehend  the  position 
of  the  country,  will  see  that  a  measure  of  this 
kind  is  necessary — nay,  indispensable,  and 
that  when  once  the  union  of  the  five  provinces 
of  British  North  America  has  been  perfectly 
settled,  we  shall  enter  on  a  new  era,  an  era 
of  progress  in  all  things — industrial,  manu- 
facturing and  commercial,  and  shall  begin  to 
take  a  prominent  place  among  the  nations  of 
this  vast  continent  J  the  people  will  under- 
stand, finally,  that  the  vessel  of  the  state 
has  fallen  into  the  hands  of  able  pilots,  well 
qualified  to  take  it  into  port,  notwithstanding 

107 


the  storms  and  rocks  with  which  its  course 
is  beset.  ^Cheers.)  I  for  one,  Mr.  Speaker, 
have  full  confidence  in  our  future  in  the 
bosom  of  Confederation.  The  day  is,  I  think, 
not  far  distant  when  the  "  Good  Orenius" 
who  rules  over  the  future  destiny  of  the  new 
Empire  of  British  North  America  will  cry 
aloud,  with  one  foot  on  the  shores  of  the 
Pacific  while  the  other  rests  on  that  of  the 
Atlantic—"  All  this  is  ours  This  wealth, 
these  fair  fields,  those  pretty  hamlets,  thuse 
vast  cities,  in  which  thousand?  of  people 
enjoy  the  fruits  of  their  toil,  and  live  without 
fear  under  the  English  flag,  belong  to  us  ! 
See  those  factories,  those  works  of  all  kinds, 
those  canals  and  railways  crossing  each  other 
in  every  direction,  fo.stering  trade  throughout 
the  length  and  breadth  of  this  vast  domain  ! 
We  are  now  a  numerous  and  a  mighty  people — 
our  population  has  grown — Europe  has  contri- 
buted its  contingent  of  brave  and  courageous 
hearts,  who  have  been  attracted  hither  by 
the  hope  of  an  amount  of  happiness  and 
prosperity  which  their  native  country  had 
denied  them."  Then  too,  this  "Good  Genius," 
turning  his  eyes  in  the  direction  of  Great 
Britain,  will  say  with  truth — "Another,  behold 
your  eldest-born,  worthy  of  such  a  parent  I" 
(^Cheers.)  And  posterity,  glorying  in  their 
ancestors,  will  exclaim — "  Behold  the  fruits 
of  the  conscientious  and  patriotic  labors  of 
that  chosen  band  ot  thirty-three,  who  sat  in 
high  conference  at  Quebec,  in  October, 
1864."     (Loud  cheers.) 

Hon.  Atty.  Gen.»  CARTIER— After 
hearing  the  eloquent  and  talented  speech 
which  the  hon.  member  for  Vaudreuil  has 
just  delivered,  I  have  one  emotion  of  regret: 
it  is,  that  the  venerable  ancestor  of  that  gen- 
tleman (the  Hon.  Alain  Chartiek  de 
LoTBlNlfiRE),  who  was  One  of  the  first 
Speakers  called  to  the  Chair  of  the  Legisla- 
tive Assembly  of  Lower  Canada,  whose  por- 
trait adorns  this  House,  has  not,  from  the 
tomb,  heard  the  accents — the  well-considered, 
loyal  and  heart-felt  expressions  of  his 
descendant.  How  justly  would  he  have  been 
proud  of  him  !     (Cheer.s.) 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— Mr.  Speak- 
er, the  honorable  member  for  Vandreuil 
asked,  a  moment  ago,  what  we  French-Cana- 
dians had  to  fear  under  Confederation  ? 
VV^ell,  I  will  tell  him  at  once,  or  rather  when 
his  friends  have  dene  congratulating  him. 
The  honorable  gentleman  read  us  a  couple  of 
letters  from  bishops  of  the  Lower  Provinces 
in  order  to  convince  us  that  all  must  be  for 
the  best  under  Confederation  for  our  Catholic 


842 


population  ;  with  the  permission  of  this  hon- 
orable House,  I  will  rea ;  for  his  benefit  the 
letter  of  a  Lower  Canadian  priest,  who,  having 
the  advantage  of  a  somewhat  closer  view  of 
things  than  the  bishops  of  the  Maritime  Pro- 
vinces, is  in  a  better  position  to  judge  whether 
our  special  inbtitutions  and  our  natioualit}' 
will  be  sufiicieiitly  guaranteed  under  the 
Feder.il  system  now  about  to  be  iii.  posed  upon 
us.  (Hear,  hear.)  This  letter  appeared  in 
the  Canadien : — 

To  the  Editor  of  the  Canadien. 

Sir, — li  the  Confederation   of   the    provincei 
may  be  considen  d  u  thing  decided  upon,  there  is 
nevenheless  no  den.>ingthe  iact  that  ihe  mindsot' 
the  people  are  tilled  with  a  lear  and  anxiety  which 
nothing  can  remove.     I  have   read  the  speeches 
of  our  reprtsentaiives;  1  have  heaid  their  explan- 
ations ;  and  far  ii om  being  reassured,  I  am  more 
uneasy  than  ever.  The  necessity  of  Conltdeiation 
has    iiideed    been  deroonstiated,    but    hiis  there 
been  any  attempt  to  exp.ain  ceiiaiu  clauses  of  a 
danJ^eious  character   in  a    French-Cauudian  and 
Catholic    point   of    view  ?     Promises,    eulogies, 
dazzling  pictures  of  our  lutuie  prospects,  tigures 
mo'.e  or  less  successfully  i£rouped,aIi  these  we  have 
had  (id  nauseam ;  but  what  I  have  looked  for  in 
vain  is  a  satislactury  explanation  as  to  our  future 
liberty  of  action  under  Confederation.    Wiih  your 
permission,  sir,   I    will   state   as    briefly  as   pos- 
sible my  objections  to  the  scheme   of  Confeder- 
ation,   jnd   the    features   which    cause  it   to    be 
dreaded  so  mi.ch  by  almost  all   those  who  have 
studied  it      1  leave  aside  the  question  of  divorce; 
the  ecclesiastical  auilioritiea  being  silei'tupon  the 
matter.  I  do  net  pretend  to    be   more  Catholic 
than  the  Poje.     Let,  every    one    bear   his  own 
responsibility.       When,    at     some    luiure     day, 
Catholic  Lower   Canada   will   be   dishonored   by 
the  presence  ol  a  divorce  court,   Q\ery  one  will, 
no  doubt  hasten  to  wash  his  hands  of  the  matter, 
and  repudiaie  all  resiionsiliility  for  •  •  •  »  ♦  the 
circumstances  in  which  we  aie   placed.      My  ob- 
jections to    Coniedeiation    aa    proposed,    are — 
first,  the  dangerous  centralization  it  establishts; 
.second,    lh»;  enoimous  expense  it  entai.s.     Cen- 
tralization 1     IJehold  the  great  danger  of  modern 
governments.     In  place  of  endeavoiing  to  conler 
on  each  (jf  our  provinces  the  greatest  measure  of 
libeiiy    compatible    with    a   central    power,    one 
would    l"an(y   that  our  Ministers  Ijad  done   their 
best  to  leave  us  but  the  very  smallest  measure 
possible.     In  tvideavoring  to  avoid  the  excess  of 
power  vested  in  the  states  of  tht;  American  Con- 
federatim,  they  have  given  us  a  scheme  tolerably 
closely  co|  icd    from    the    Swiss     Confederation. 
They  wished  to  avoid  state  independence,   which 
caused  tlu!  war  between  the  North  and  the  South, 
and  they  expose  us  to  a  new  Scjiideibunil  with  all 
its  disasters.     Let  us  see  what  are  the  powers  of 
the  Central   Government,  and  the  rights   of  the 
provinces,  and  ot   Lower  Canada   in    particular, 
under  our  Confederation.     The  Central  Govern- 


ment will   be    composed     of— first,   an    elective 
Chamber,  based  on  population  ;  secoid,  a  Senate ; 
third,  an  Executive    Cou'.icil,    and    Kesponsible 
Mhiisteis,  and  a  Governor.     The    Lower  House 
will  be  comjiosed  of  194  membeis.  Of  these  194 
sixty-five    will    be    Lower    Canadisr.s,    aid    fifty 
French-Canadians.    In  the  House  of  Kepiesenta- 
tiveswe  shall  therefore  be  one  to  three,  or,  if  we 
count  as  French  Canadians,  I  to  4.    How  many 
Lower  Canadians  or  French-Canadians  are  we  to 
have  in  the  Executive  Council  ?    One,   j  eihaps  ; 
two  at  most.    Such  is  the  measnie  of  our  ii.fu- 
ence  in  the  Central  Government.    And  this  is  the 
Government  that  is  to  appohit  our  senators  after 
the   first  selection  is  made.    It   will  appoii  t,   or 
rather  impose  upon  us,  a  governor,     it  will  have 
the   power   of  veto   over  all  our  local  measures. 
It  will  also  enjoy  that  power  through    tfe   gov- 
ernor,   its   creature    !    Was   theie    ever  a  more 
dangerous     centralization?       What     liberty     of 
action,  then,  is  there  lelt  to  our  legislature  V    An 
Urangeman     will    perhaps   be    sent    to    govern 
us  ;  and  what  can  we  say  ?     Our  senators  will  be 
selected,  if  it  should   please  the   ceniial   pov\er, 
from  the  ranks  of  our  enemies  ;  to  w  h-^ta  ;  hall  we 
apply  for  redress?     All  our  most  cherished  local 
measures,  our  acts   of  incorporation,  will  be  re- 
served   or   Vetoed  ;     and   who    will    redress    our 
grievances?     Lnt  all  these  are  meie  imagniary 
dangers!     Imaginary,    forsooth  I     Heave  i  grant 
that  they  may  be!  But  do  we  not  knowthe  Orange- 
luen  ?     Js  not  the  example  of  Ireland  belo  e  our 
eyes?     But  the  Sonderbui.d  warl     Be  quiet,   w© 
aie  told;  men  so  well  tried,  so  honorable  as  our 
leaders,  would  never  propose  the  measure  )or  our 
adoption  if  it  tould  possibly  b«  of  a  fatal  chain c- 
ter.     1  do  not  desire,  in  any  way,  to  accuse  our 
statesmen  or  to  question  their  motives.  Bui  ha\e 
our  statesmen  always  avoided  comradiciiun — dan- 
gerous measuies  ?     is  it  prudent  to   trust  solely 
to   men,    without   scrutinizing    their   measures? 
What  of  the  experience  of  the  past?     What  of 
the  maxim,  "Measures,  not  men  ?'  "Fear  not," 
we  are  told  again,  "none  of  thedangeis  you  fear 
can  arise  ;   the  thing  is  impossible."  Impossitile  ! 
Why,  then,  leave  a  possibility  of  danger  in  the 
law?     Why  so  much   haste  with  a  mtasuie  of 
such  im[iortance?     The  authors  of  the  Consiilu- 
tion  of  the  United  States  labored  lor  monilis  and 
•years  at  the  draft   of  their  Coniedeiation,   and 
after  eighty   yeais   it   ia  found  dekciive.     Our 
statesmen  elaborate  a  Constitution  in  a  lew  days, 
in  the  midst  of  the  noisy  rejoicings  of  hospitality, 
and  we  aie    told    that   Constitution    iat    perleit  I 
"You  must  not  touch  it;  you  shall  not  amend 
it."     But,  we  say,  it  contains  dangerous  clauses, 
it    gives    our    enemies   power   to    aniuhilule  us. 
The  answer  ia  :   "  Be  silent !   It  is  th.  ciealion  of 
our  Ministers,  our  leadeis!    Trust  in  their  honor, 
in  their  talents."     Excellent  reasons,  no  doubt! 
And  yet,  strange  to  say,  people  are  still  une.i,>y, 
still  distrustful  1     But,  aie  not  the  clergy,  are  not 
the  people  for  Confederation?     As  to  the  clergy, 
no  ;  they  are  not  all  for  your  Confederatiun  aa  it 
is  proposed,     A  great  many  of  them,  it  is  iiue, 
feel  no  uneasiness;  and  trust  all  to  our  statesaieu  ; 


843 


but  many  of  them,  also,  dread  it,  and  would  wish 
to  see  it  amended.  As  to  the  people  they  know 
nothing  abt>ut  your  scheme,  and  until  the  time 
comes  when  they  shall  undergo  the  ordeal  of 
taxes  and  imposts,  they  will,  I  fancy,  exhibit  the 
utmost  imliffereiice.  But  let  the  Confederation 
be  carried  out,  let  the  fabulous  expenses  be  com- 
menced connected  with  the  defence  of  the  coun- 
try, the  support  of  a  militia,  the  creation  of  a 
marine,  the  construction  of  the  Intercolonial 
Railway  and  other  public  works,  and,  as  the  pro- 
verb savs,  "Time  will  tell."  Yes,  we  shall  then 
perceive  the  disastrous  results  of  this  measure, 
but  it  will  be  a  little  too  late.  I  now  come  to 
mj  second  objection  to  the  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion. With  your  permission  I  shall  treat  it  on  a 
future  occasion.  A  CiTiZBN. 

Quebec,  March  5th,  1865. 

Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  if  I  am  not  mistaken, 
that  reverea  1  gentleman,  a  member  of  our 
clergy,  seems  to  he  somewhat  less  convinced 
than  our  Ministeis  and  the  honorable  member 
for  V^audreuil  of  the  safety  of  our  religious 
interests,  and  of  our  nationality.  Are  not  his 
expressions  sulficiently  energetic  and  signifi- 
cant. But  let  us  now  see  whether  the  rever- 
end gentleman  has  grounds  for  his  alarm,  and 
whether  he  is  not  somewhat  carried  away  by 
his  zeal  and  patriotic  anxiety  for  the  welfare 
of  his  fellow-countrymen.  Let  us  see  whether, 
on  the  contrary,  he  does  not  appreciate  more 
correctly  than  our  Lower  Canada  Ministers 
the  position  iu  which  we  sh:tll  be  placed  by 
Confederation.  I  think  we  shall  be  enabled 
to  jadge  from  an  article  which  appeared  in  a 
late  number  of  the  organ  of  the  Honorable 
President  of  the  Council.  The  Toronto  Globe 
of  the  Gth  March  inst., — a  paper  which  is  now 
one  of  the  principal  organs  of  the  present 
Government — publis.  es  an  article,  written 
perhaps  by  the  Honorable  President  of  the 
Council  himself,  in  which  I  find  the  following 
kindly  expression  applied  to  our  honored 
clergy  :— 

We  trust  that  those  well-mearing  but  mistaken 
friends  of  the  Common  School  system  of  Uppei 
Canada,  who  have  been  censuring  the  educational 
agreement  in  the  Quebec  resolutions,  will  now 
see  something  of  its  value.  Bishop  Lynch's 
bold  letter  should  be  a  warning  to  us  all  how 
utterly  unsafe  our  schools  are  under  the  present 
Constitution.  The  Komish  Church  is  ever  ag- 
gressive—  getting  to-day  concessions  with  which 
it  profes.ses  to  be  entirely  satisfied,  only  to  come 
back  and  demar-d  new  ones  at  the  first  oppor- 
tunity. (Under  our  present  parliamentary  system, 
it  is  never  safe  to  say  that  the  Romish  bishops  in 
Canada  cannot^  with  a  little  labor,  get  all  they 
may  ask.  Under  Confederation,  while  gladly 
*'  crying  quits"  and  leaving  them  what  they  now 
have  and  can  keep  in  spite  of  us,  we  should  be 


placed  in  a  position  to  refuse  them  anything  more. 
But  let  our  present  Consliiutiun  la-st  five  years 
longer,  aiid  the  chances  are  that  the  new  demands 
of  the  hierarchy  will  be  conceded.) 

If  the  honorable  gentleman  is  not  satisfied 
now   that    the  fears  of  the  clergy    are   well 
founded,  I  really  cannot  see  how  he  can  pos- 
sibly   be   convinced.      (Hear,    hear.)     That 
honorable   member  gave  us  a    splendid  and 
perfectly  just  eulogium  of  the  admirable  merits 
and  devotedness  of  our  Lower  Canadian  clergy 
— an  eulogium  which  expresses  the  thought 
of  every  man  who  has  any  feeling  of  admiration 
for  deserving  merit,  wherever  it  may  be  found, 
and  whatever  may  be  his  own  nationality  or 
religion — an  eulogium   which  1  endorse  with 
my   whole  heart.     (Hear,  he'ir.)     But,  Mr. 
Speaker,  I  am  not  the  less  convinced  that 
everything  foreshadowed  by  the  extract  I  have 
just  read  from  the  Glube  is  destined  to  occur 
one  day,  if  we  adopt  the  measure  now  before 
us.     And  what  is  the  meaning  of  the  petitions 
pouring  in  every  day  by  thousands ,  why  all 
these  crosses  affixed  to  these   energetic   and 
patriotic    protests — crosses   formed    by   rude 
hands  guided  by  noble  hearts  ?     (Hear,  hear.) 
I  will  tell  you,  Mr.  Speaker,  why  there  are 
so  many  crosses ;  it  is   because,  previous  to 
the   union   of  the   Canadas,    the   Legislative 
Council  was  composed  of  enemies  of  the  Lower 
(Janadians,  who  refused,  for  a  great  number  of 
years,  to  make  even  the  most  paltry  grants  for 
our   Lower  Canada  schools.     Thanks  to  this 
tyrannical  proscription,  the  schools  were  closed 
by  hundreds,   and  the  children  of  our  people 
were  un  ible  to  obtain  the  benefits  of  educa- 
tion, of  whick  they  would  most  certainly  have 
availed   themselves.      Hence   it   is    that   the 
petitions  pouring  in  upon  us  from  all  quarters, 
to  protest  against  the  oppression  about  to  be 
established,    are   in    great   part  signed    with 
crosses — crosses  certainly  of  equal  value  with 
the  mygnificeut  signatures  of  certain  honor- 
able members  of   this   House,  who   have  at- 
tempted to  turn  into  ridicule  the  signatures  of 
these  petitions.   At  that  period,  Mr.  Speaker, 
the  Canadian  clergy  were,  as  they  are  today, 
the  leaders  of  the  education  movement,  and 
the  British  oligarchy  did  all  in  its  power  to 
contract  the  limits  of  their  noble  work — the 
education  of  the  children  of  the  soil.     (Hear, 
hear.)     But  thanks  to  the  constant  and  ener- 
getic protests  of  patriotic  men — thanks  to  the 
struggles    they  maintained   for   many  a  long 
year — struggles  which  culminated  at  last  ia 
open  rebellion  against  the  authority  of  Great 
•Britain — we  gained  the  liberties  we  now  enjoy. 
And  with  reference  to  the  rebeilion,  I  think 


84.4 


the  Honor  able"  Attorney  General  East  must 
remember  that  he  himself  was  one  of  those 
who  raised  the  flag  of  freedom  at  St.  Charles, 
and    donned   the   cap   of    liberty.     At   that 
period,'  Mr.  Speaker,  the  Honorable  Attor- 
ney General  East  did  not  shrink  from  open 
rebellion  against  the  Crown,  in  order  to  secure 
what  he  considered  the  legitimate  liberties  of 
his  fellow-citizens ;  to-day  he  docs  not  shrink 
from  a  baronetcy,  the  reward  of  the  treason 
he   is  prepared   to   consummate  against    his 
same  fellow-citizens,     (Hear,  hear.)     I  said 
a  moment   ago    that  French-Canadians    had 
every  reason  to  fear  for  the  safety   of  their 
institutions  under   Confederation,   and  I  will 
prove  it  by  quoting  a  few  passages  from  the 
celebrated  report  of  Lord  Durham — a  report 
which    has  been    used   as  a  model    by   the 
Government   in   preparing    their    scheme   of 
Confederation — in  fact   the   latter  is  copied 
almost  word  for   word  from  that  able  sum- 
mary of  the  means  to  be  adopted  for  the 
utter  annihilation   of   French  nationality  in 
this  country.     (Hear,  hear.)     To  those  who 
may  feel  inclined  to  consider  my  fears  un- 
founded,  I  have  but  one  thing  to  say  :  you 
may  rest  assured  that  the  English  members 
will  not  allow  themselves   to  be  led  by  the 
few  French-Canadian  members  of  the  Federal 
Government,  and  that  they  will  strive  con- 
scientiously, and  in   some  sort  naturally,  to 
carry  out  the  work  initiated  by  Lord  Dur- 
ham, and  carried  on  up  to  this  day  with  a 
deeree  of  skill  and  ability  which,  though  de- 
feated  in  some  instances,  was  none  the  less 
calculated  to  produce  the  results  foreseen  and 
desired  by  Great  Britain.     I  %will   read   to 
the  House  an  extract  from  the  report  in  ques- 
tion ;  for  it  is  good  to  remind  the  representa- 
tives of  Lower  Canada  of  these  facts: — 

Never  a?ain  will  the  British  population  toler- 
ate the  authority  of  a  House  of  Assembly  in 
which  the  French  shall  possess,  or  even  approxi- 
mate to  a  majority. 

Such,  Mr.  Speaker,  are  the  expressions  used 
by  Lord  Durham  in  his  despatch  to  the  Eng- 
lish Government ;  and  1  will  sbow  how  faith- 
fully the  plan  has  been  carried  out.  It  was 
begun  by  a  union  of  the  two  Canadas,  and  it 
is  to  be  continued  by  a  Confederation  of  all 
the  Provinces  of  British  North  America,  and 
consummated  at  last  by  a  Icjrislative  union, 
under  which  the  French  race  will  be  absorbed 
and  annihilitcd  for  ever.  (Hear,  hear.)  An 
honorable  member  who  addressed  the  House 
during  yesterday's  sitting,  told  us  that  Con- 
federation would  be  the    beginning  of  the 


end,  and  the  destruction  of  the  Lower  Cana 
dians.     It  would  have  been  impossible  to  de- 
scribe more  truly  the  position   in  which  we 
shall  find  ourselves  placed  under  Confedera- 
tion. (Hear,  hear.)     The  honorable  member 
for  Vaudreuil   (3Ir.  Harwood)   said  there 
were  as  many  Catholics  in  London  as  there 
were  in  Rome  itself,  the  centre  of  Catholicity. 
Well,  what  is  the  value  of  that  a.=sertion  ? 
Does  it  prove  anything  in  favor  of  his  argu- 
ment?     How   many  members  are  there  in 
the  English   Parliament  to  represent  the  Ca- 
tholics of  Great  Britain  ?     If  I  am  not  mis- 
taken, I  think  there  are  but  two  or  thiee. 
Now   I   ask  what  influence  can  the  Catholic 
population  have  in  that  Parliament,  and  what 
power    have   they  to   protect    their    institu- 
tions and  their  liberties?    If  the  honorable 
member  for  Vaudreuil  thinks  he  has  brought 
forward    an    unanswerable  '  argument,   he  is 
very    much     mistaken,    for    the     argument 
turns  entirely  against  him.       (Hear,  hear.) 
The  honorable  member  for  Vaudreuil    also 
brought     forward,    in    favor    of    Confeder- 
ation,   an    argument    which    bears     a     cer- 
tain appearance  of  plausibleness  and  weight. 
He    said    that   if  we   adopt   Confederation, 
Lower    Canada    will    enjoy    the   rich    coal 
mines  of  New  Brunswick.     Does  the  honor- 
able member  fancy  that  the  coal  is  to  be  de- 
livered to  us  free  of  all  cost  and  charges,  and  . 
without  our  having  to  give  anything  in  ex- 
change for  it?     (Hear,  hear.)     Really,  !JIr. 
Speaker,  it  seems  to  me  that  when   only 
such  arguments  as  these  are  available  in  sup- 
port of  a  case,  it  would  be  quite   as  well  to 
say   nothing  about  it.     It  may  be  that  the 
praises  profusely  bestowed  by  the  Honorable 
Attorney    General    East   on    the    honorable 
member  for  Vaudreuil  are  well  deserved.     It 
may  be  that  the  Honorable  Attorney  General 
thinks  so  ;  but  for  my  part — I  say  it  in  all 
sincerity  —  I   consider  that  the  st^'le  of  elo- 
quence displayed   here   by  the  hon.  member 
for  Vaudreuil  was  better  calculated  to  win 
the  applause  of  a  parish  meeting;  the  hollow 
tinsel  of  that  style  of  eloquence   may  take 
with  a  certain  class  of  men,  but  I  do  not  hes 
itate  to  Jissert  that  it  is  hardly  the  kind  of 
speech   suited  to  this   House.     What  is  re- 
quired here  is  a  Hpecch   calculated  to  bring 
conviction  to  the  minds  of  those  who  listen. 
No    doubt   the    hon.  member  ibr  Vaudreuil 
turned  many  pretty  and  elegant  phra.H\s,  but 
for  all  that,  I  cannot  help  thinking  that  the 
Honorable    Attorney   General  s    cuniplinients 
were  somewhat  extravagant,  and  that  he  only 
■  spoke  as  he  did  in  order  to  remove  the  im- 


84^5 


pression  of  the  contempt  he  affects  to  enter- 
tains for  his  fellow-countrymen  holdino;  seats 
in  this  House,  who  hold  opinions  different 
from  his,  and  for  all  the  French  speeches  de- 
livered on  this  side  of  the  House  since  he 
broutrht  down  his  Confederation  scheme.  Af- 
ter all,  the  Honorable  Attorney  General  has 
a  perfect  right  to  pay  compliments  to  any  one 
he  likes,  and  whenever  ke  likes ;  and  in  mak- 
ing these  remarks  I  do  not  complain  of  his 
having  formed  that  opinion  of  the  honorable 
member  for  Vaudreuil.  The  honorable  mem- 
ber also  told  us  that  the  Government  had 
done  everything  in  their  power,  and  that  they 
had  examined  the  question  of  Confederation 
from  the  stand-point  of  the  five  parties  to  the 
contract.  I  think  so  too,  and  1  do  not  hesi- 
tate to  say  that  if  our  French-Canadian  Min- 
isters present  at  the  Conference  had  exam- 
ined the  question  from  a  Lower  Canadian 
point  of  view — since  they  were  charged  with 
the  protection  of  our  interests — it  is  highly 
probable  that  many  things  unfavorable  to 
those  interests,  which  the  scheme  now  pre- 
sents, would  have  been  removed.  But  the 
honorable  member  for  Vaudreuil  must  know 
that  the  Lo\>er  Canadian  Ministers  at  the 
Conference  ought  to  have  gone  there  to  re- 
present the  interests  of  their  fellow-country- 
men, and  to  defend  those  interests  if  neces- 
sary, in  the  same  way  that  the  representatives 
i:f  the  other  nationalities  went  there  to  repre- 
sent those  of  their  fellow-countrymen ;  and  the 
event  shows  but  too  clearly  how  strenuously 
the  latter  worked  for  their  own  interests. 
The  scheme  ot  Confederation  shows  clearly 
that  the  English  race  have  in  this,  as  in  every 
other  instance,  been  favored,  to  the  detriment 
of  the  French  element.  They  obtained  ever>- 
thing,  or  nearly  everything,  they  desired. 

It  being  six  o'clock,  the  Speaker  left  the 
chair. 

After  the  recess, 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE  resumed  his 
remarks  as  follows — Mr.  Speaker,  as  a  pre- 
lude to  the  remarks  I  proposed  making  against 
Confederation  during  the  first  part  of  this 
sitting,  I  answered  some  of  the  arguments 
brought  forward  by  the  honorable  member 
for  Vandreuil,  in  support  of  the  scheme 
as  proposed  ibr  the  consideration  of  this 
House.  I  shall  now  proceed  to  examine 
certain  portions  of  the  scheme,  and  show  the 
absurdity  of  the  arguments  brought  forward 
in  support  o!  it.  It  lias  been  stated  by  honor- 
able gentlemfti  opposite  that  Confederation  is 
a  compromise.  Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  what 
is  the  meaning  of  the  word  "  compromise"  V 


It  means  an  understanding  arrived  at  by 
means  of  mutual  conce-ssions  ;  and  in  the  case 
now  before  us,  I  find  couce^sintis  made  only  on 
one  side  and  none  whatever  on  the  other.  I 
find  that  the  concessions  have  all  been  made 
by  Lower  Canada  to  Upper  Canada:  the  con- 
cession of  representation  based  upon  popula- 
tion, the  concession  to  tlie  Federal  Parliament 
of  the  right  to  legislate  on  marriage  and 
divorce.  Not  a  single  concessi!.>n  to  Lower 
Canada.  All  the  Lower  Canadian  members 
of  the  Administration  have,  in  their  turn,  told 
us  that  Upper  Canada  has  made  concessions 
to  Lower  Canada,  but  not  one  of  those  honor- 
able gentlemen  have  pointed  out  a  single 
instance  of  the  kind.  In  looking  over  a 
pamphlet  which  has  become  celebrated  for 
many  reasons  which  I  need  n  t  enumerate — 
I  mean  the  pamphlet  of  the  honorable  mem- 
ber for  Montmorency — I  find  that  Upper 
Canada  has  made  one  concession  to  Lower 
Canada.  The  honorable  gentleman  says, 
with  reference  to  the  concession  of  represen- 
tation based  upon  population  : — 

Every  confederation  is  a  compromise,  and 
where  would  be  the  compromise  if  nothing  weie 
conceded  by  both  sides?  The  compromise  made 
by  Lower  Canada  is  representation  based  upon 
population  in  the  Lower  House,  and  tlie  compro- 
mise on  the  part  of  Upper  Canada  is  the  conces- 
sion of  equality  in  the  Upper  House  in  exchange 
for  represenation  based  upon  population  in  the 
Assembly.  The  same  comfn-omise  occurs  between 
the  two  Canadas  and  the  Maritime  Pro\  inces,  and 
it  is  based  upon  the  same  principle. 

Thus,  Mr.  Speaker,  the  only  concession  the 
honorable  member  for  Montmorency  has  suc- 
ceeded in  shewing  in  favor  of  Jjower  Canada, 
notwithstanding  the  eminer.t  talents  we  all 
admit  he  possesses,  and  his  well-known  zeal 
for  the  Ministerial  scheme,  is  that  which  I 
have  just  mentioned,  and  in  my  opinion  it  is 
no  concession  at  all,  since  Lower  (  anada  had 
and  still  has  the  right  to  claim  an  equal  repre- 
sentation in  both  Houses  of  the  Legislature. 
Let  us  now  see  what  is  the  nature  of  the  con- 
cessions made  by  Lower  Canada  to  Upper 
Canada.  In  the  first  place,  I  find  this,  the- 
most  important  of  all.  and  which  by  itself  is 
worth  all  the  rest — I  mean  the  concession  of 
representation  based  upon  population.  No 
one  has  forgotten  the  animated  discussions 
which  occurred,  both  in  this  House  and  else- 
where, relative  to  this  question.  What  means 
were  not  employed  and  what  efforts  were  not 
made  by  the  Conservative  party  iu  order  to 
make  political  capital  out  of  that  question, 
and  what  success  have  not  this  same  party, 


846 


who  DOW  concede  representation  based  upon 
population,  obtained  in  Lower  Canada  by 
loudly  proclaiming  that  the  Liberal  party, 
or  rather  the  "  liouije  party,"  as  they  were 
pleased  to  style  us,  were  ready  to  grant  to 
the  Honorable  President  of  the  Council 
representation  based  upon  population  ?  Well, 
Mr.  Speaker,  the  accusation  made  against 
the  Liberal  party,  ol  being  prepared  to  grant 
to  the  Honorable  President  of  the  Coun- 
cil his  cherished  measure,  I  shall  leave  to 
that  hon.  gentleman  himself  the  task  of 
answering.  We  heard  him  declare  in  this 
House  that  he  had  oflfcred  the  hon.  member 
for  Hotheiaga  to  continue  to  work  with  him 
if  he  was  willing  to  concede  the  principle  ot 
representation  based  upon  populatiun,  and 
that  that  gentleman  having  refused  to 
comply  with  the  demand,  he  had  accepted 
the  alliance  of  the  Hon.  Attorney  General 
East,  who  gave  him  all  he  asked.  (Hear, 
hear.)  But,  Mr.  Speaker,  there  is  some- 
thing still  more  important  than  that.  A 
few  days  ago,  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Council,  addressing  the  hon.  members  for 
H(jchelaga  and  Chatoauguay,  said,  "  I  had 
long  considered  that  ycu  were  the  best 
friends  of  Upper  Canada,  but  I  can  see  to  d:ty 
that  your  are  not,  and  that  our  real  friends 
are  the  Hon.  Attorney  Genfral  for  Lower 
Canada  and  his  Lower  Canada  colleagues." 
(Hear,  hear.)  After  having  granted  the  favor- 
ite measure  uf  the  great  Clear  (.t;  it  chief,  the 
Lower  Canada  delegMtes  doubtless  cunsiderrd 
that  tl  at  was  not  tuflBcient,  since  they  also 
made  another  important  concession  to  lipper 
Canada  and  to  the  Protestants  of  Lower 
Danad",  by  ves-ting  in  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment the  power  ot"  legislating  on  marriage 
and  divorce — (hear,  hear)— two  questions 
upon  which  the  French-C!anadians  were 
united  by  tlie  bonds  of  a  common  faith,  and 
on  which  they  could  not  tolerate  any  discus- 
sion ;  and  the  Ministers,  theicfore,  ought 
not  to  have  made  those  cuncessious,  which 
are  utterly  opposed  to  the  religious  doctiines 
they  themselves  profess.  I  say  that  power 
has  been  given  to  the  Federal  Government 
to  legislati!  on  divorce  and  to  legalize  it,  and 
I  am  not  mistaken  in  saying  it,  for  the 
priuei|)le  is  adopted  by  the  fact  ol  giving  to 
the  Federal  Legislature  the  right  of  legislat 
iug  on  this  question.  This  power  ought  to 
have  been  granted  to  the  heal  legislatures, 
and  not  to  the  Federal  Legislature,  as  has 
been  done;  and  i  shall  prove  it  in  this  way: 
the  other  day,  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General 


for  Lower  Canada  (Hon.  Mr.  Langevin) 
told  us,  that  as  regards  Lower  Canada,  there 
was  no  necessity  for  granting  to  its  legisla- 
ture   the  power    ol'  legi-lating   on    divorce, 
because,  said  he,  "the  religious  authuiities 
are  recognize  1 ;  but  it    was    necessary  and 
proper  lo  grant  that  power  to  I'pper  Canada." 
{  Hear,  hear.)     Now^I  ask,  if  i.ower  Canada 
did  not  require  that   power  of  legislating, 
why  has  it  been  c^iven  to  the  Federal  Legis- 
lature,   which    will    be    composed   in    great 
majority  of  Protestants,  vvho  do  not  hold  the 
same  opinion  that  we  do  on  these  (|UeHti<..us, 
when  it  is  evident  that  that  Legislature  will 
probably  grant  bills  of  divi  rce  to  all  persoLS 
who    apply    for   thciu,  without   considering 
whether    the  p;irties  are  Catholics  or  Pro- 
testants ?     If  divorce  is  condemned   by  the 
Cathulic    reliuiou,    I    maintain     that    it    is 
wrong  to  grant   that  power  to  a  Legislature 
which   will   be    composed   in    great    part  of 
Protestant  members,   ready  to    legislute  on 
divorce,  and  to  grant  divorces  to  those  who 
bring    forward    what    they     may    consider 
reasonable  srrounds,  suflBeienL  to  entitle  them 
to     obtain     divorce,    without    considering 
whether   the   religious   laith  of  the  parties 
permits   or    docs     not   permit    divorce.     If 
divorce  be  condemned  by  the  Catholic  Church 
— and    all    the   world    knows   that   it  is  so 
condemned  in  the  most  formal  manner — the 
nuwer  of  the  Legislature  in  this  matter  ouyht 
to  have  been  restricted,  and  not  made  general, 
as  it  is  proposed  to  make  it  in  'he  scheme  of 
Confederation  submitted  to  us.  Mr.  SPEAKICR, 
I  have  shown,  I  think,  that   iiOwer  Canada 
has  gained   nothing,  but   that   she   has  coq- 
j-eded  everything  in  thi.s  compromise;  true, 
in  order  to   cover  these  guilty  coucessious, 
we    are   tidd,    "  15ut  the  protection   of  cur 
institntious  and  the  maintenance  of  our  laws 
are  fully  and  amply  guaranteed  to  us  by  the 
new  Constitution."    In  thi;  first  place  under 
the  Confederation,  our  in.-titulions  will  iKjt  be 
protected — as  it  hiisvjMuly  been  altempteJ  to 
demonstrate    they    will;   but,    even    though 
it  were  the  case,  does  not  the  Constitution 
under  which  we  now  live  afTor-l  us  in6nitely 
better  guarantees  tor  all  our  dearest  liberties  ? 
Let  us  examine,  for  a  moment,  what  species 
of   guarantee    we    have    under    t':e  present 
system,  and   what  guarantees  we  shall  have 
under  tl  e  Federal  sy.>teni       The  guarantee 
which  the  Freoeh-Cuuadians  haveundir  the 
present  sysltm,  consists  in  the  faet  that  out 
of  05   meubeis,  they  count  nt   Icnt^t   51   ot 
'    their  own  origin  uud  faith,  and  that  they 


847 


possess  in  the  country  and  in  the  Legislature 
so. powerful  an  iufluerice,  that  the  existence 
of  auy  and  every  govermueot  depends  on 
their  good-will,  and  that  co  legislation  can  be 
carried  on  without  their  consent j  whereas, 
under  tlie  new  Constitution,  the  General 
Legislature  will  be  coiupused  of  19 i  mem- 
bers, Lower  Canada  having  f)5,  of  whom 
14  at  least  wil/  be  En^-lish  and  Protest- 
ants, leaving  thus  5^1  French-Canadian 
or  Catholic  me  libers.  Now,  even  if  these 
51  members  act  together  as  one  man, 
they  will  have  to  struggle  against  l-i'd 
members  of  a  different  origin  and  a  d.f 
lerent  faith  from  tliemselves  Thus,  Mr. 
SPE.MiER,  I  am  convinced  that  the  guaran- 
tees we  enjoy  under  our  present  Constitu- 
tion— guarantees  which  are  assured  tj  us  as 
long  as  we  do  not  change  our  system  of 
government — are  infinitely  superior  to  those 
offered  to  us  by  the  new  Constitution  which 
it  is  sought  to  force  upon  the  people.  But 
we  arc  told  that  the  Federal  Government 
will  have  the  Catholic  minority  to  deal  with, 
and  thai  the  ?issistaiJC3  uf  the  latter  will  be 
absolutely  necessary  to  carrying  it  on.  Well, 
I  ask,  Mr.  Speaker,  what  can  a  minority 
composed  of  51  members  do  against  a  ma- 
jority of  143  ;  and  what  protection  can  it 
offer  to  our  laws,  our  institutions  and  our 
language  ?  No;  it  is  evident  that  all  these 
things  which  we  hold  so  dear  may,  under 
the  Federal  system,  disappear  and  be  anni- 
hilated at  any  moment;  they  will  be  con- 
stantly at  the  mercy  of  our  natural  enemies. 
In  order  to  secure  Confederation,  \ou  have 
granted  to  Upper  Canada  representation 
based  on  population — a  principle  against 
which  the  people  of  Lower  Canada  have 
always  votea  as  one  men,  and  yeu  have  al-o 
granted  everything  that  the  \]}  per  Canadian 
delegates  desired  to  obtain  fur  them.-elves 
and  their  co-religionists.  It  is  quite  natural 
that  the  English  members  in  Lower  Canada 
should  be  nearly  all  in  favor  of  the  schime, 
since  they  have  a  sure  guaran;ee  in  the  veto 
power  of  the  Fedeial  Legislature.  Thus 
the  Local  Legislature  of  Lower  Canada 
cannot  pass  a  single  law  without  submitting 
it  to  the  sanction  of  the  Federal  Legislature, 
which  can,  by  its  veto,  amend,  change  or 
completely  annul,  if  it  thinks  proper,  any 
law  or  any  measure  so  submitted  to  it  But 
what  guarantee  will  the  Federal  Legislature 
offer  to  the  French-C^badian  majority  of 
Lower  Canada,  and  to  the  Catholic  minority 
of  Upper  Canada  ?  None  whatever.  How 
ean   the   gr«at   Conservative    party    which 


boasts  so  loudly  of  representing  the  interests 
of  the  Catholics  of  Low^r  Canada,  which 
takes  its  stand  as  the  natuial  protector  of 
the  religion  and  the  faith  of  Catholics —  (hear, 
hear) — very  absurdly  I  must  admit — how  can 
that  great  party,  I  say,  liave  forgotten,  as  it 
evidently  has  forgotten,  that  there  are  Catho- 
lics in  Upper  Canada  who  expected  and 
are  entitled  to  its  protection  ?  How  will  the 
Catholic  minority  in  Upper  Canada  be  pro- 
tected in  the  Local  Legislature  of  Upper 
Canada,  composed  of  Englishmen  and 
Protestants?  Shall  I  tell  you  how,  Mr. 
Speaker  ?  Wei,  they  will  be  protected 
by  two  menibers  only,  the  hon.  members  for 
Cornwall  and  Glengarry  (Hun.  Mr.  .J.S.  Mac- 
DONALD  and  Mr.  Donald  A.  McDonald). 
The  great  Conservative  party,  which  styles 
itself  the  prott  ctor  of  Cati.o!iei>m,  has 
simply  handed  over  the  Catholic  minority  of 
Upper  Canada  to  the  tender  mercies  of  their 
enemies.  And  to  give  an  idea  of  the  kind 
of  protection  they  will  enjoy  under  the  new 
system,  it  is  sufficient  to  state  that  a  few 
days  ago,  Bishop  Ly.nch,  of  Toronto,  was 
forced  to  address  himself  publicly,  throuo-h 
the  press,  to  the  citizens  of  Toronto,  to 
protest  againso  the  insults  offered  in  broad 
daylight,  in  the  public  streets  of  that  city 
aud  elsewhere,  to  revered  Sisters  of 
Charity,  and  to  ask  protection  for  the  vener- 
able ladies  of  that  community  ;  aud  then 
look  at  the  fanatical  and  intolerant  writings, 
such  as  those  I  read  to  thi.s  Honorable  House 
before  the  recess,  from  an  article  in  the 
Globe  of  the  6th  March — a  paper  which 
represents  the  opinions  of  the  pre.«enfc 
Government,  and  which  is  the  organ  and 
property  of  the  Hon.  President  of  the 
Executive  Coutfcil  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown). 
Can  it  be  said  that  we  have  nothing  ;o  fear, 
that  the  religious  institutions  of  Upper 
Canada  will  be  perfectly  safe  under  the 
system  sought  to  be  introduced  into  the 
country  ?  Does  not  the  hon.  member  for 
Montmorency  admit,  in  his  famous  pamphlet 
of  1865,  that  our  religious  iustitucions  have 
many  a  time  been  insulted  in  this  House? 
And  has  not  the  Bishop  of  Toronto  just 
complained  that  Sisters  of  Charity  have  been 
insulted  in  the  streets  of  the  capital  of 
Upper  Canada,  and  that  they  have  been 
turned  into  ridicule  at  ma.scjuerades  and 
masked  balls,  frequented  by  the  best  society 
of  that  locality  ?  And  in  order  that  everj 
one  may  be  convinced  of  the  fact,  I  take 
the  liberty  of  reading  his  letter,  whioh  is  as 
follows  :— 


848 


TO    THE    CITIZENS    OF   TORON'TO. 

The  Sisters  of  Cbarity  have  been  from  time  to 
time  grossly  insulted  in  this  city.  Men  have 
rudely  seized  hold  of  them  in  the  public  streets 
whilst  going  on  their  errand  of  charity ;  they 
have  been  pelted  with  stones  and  snow-balls. 
They  have  been  called  the  most  op;  robrious  and 
insulting  nanes ;  their  costume  has  been  con- 
tumeliuusly  exhibited  in  masquerades  on  a  skating 
rink.  We,  confiding  iu  the  honor  and  justice  of 
the  gentlemen  of  Toronto,  most  respectfully  aak 
protection  in  the  premises. 

Your  obedient  servant, 

t  John  Joseph  Lynch, 

Bishop  of  Toronto. 

But  even  though  many  hon.  members  of  this 
House  doubted   the  truth  of  the  statements 
made   in  that  letter,  is   not   the  danger   we 
shall  incur,  as  Catholics,  once  we  are  placed 
at  the  liiercy  of  our  enemies,  exemplified  by 
facts  which  they  cannot  have  forgotten  ?     I 
mean    the    numDerkss  injuries  and   insults 
offered    by   au    honorable    member    of  this 
House   to  everything   (!)atholics   hold   dear. 
Have   we   forgotten   the  infamous   charges 
uttered    by   one   ot   the   friends  and    warm 
supporters  of  the    Hon.    President   of  the 
Council  (Hon.  Mr.  Brown)  on  the  floor  of 
this  House?    Well,   1  ask  you  now — you, 
the   great   Conservative   party,   the   natural 
protectors  of  our  religion  and  of  its  adn^irable 
institutions — what  have  you  done  to  secure 
protection   for   the  Cathuhcs  of  Upper  Ca- 
nada in  the  new  Coutederation  ?     Nothing- 
whatever  !     (Hear,   hear.)     But  if  Lower 
Canada  has  obtained  no  new  concession,  and 
if  her  position  is  no   b.tter  under  the  new 
system  than  under  the  present  one,  why  are 
we  to  have  Confederation  ?     I  can   answer 
the   question,   and,   in   fact,   the  answer   is 
patent  to  every  one  :  our  Ministers  had  re- 
course to   Confederation  simply  because  it 
presented  a  pretext   for  clinging  to  office, 
and  enjoying  the  sweets  of  power  for  a  lew 
years  longer.     That  is  the  reason,  and   the 
one  only  reason,  for  their  alliance  with  a 
man  who  despises  them  in  his  heart,  and 
who  joined  them  only  because  they  advance 
his  plans  and  ambitious  designs.    The  Hon. 
Solicitor    Greneral    for    Lower    Canada    ex 
plained  to  us  the  other  evening  the  inten- 
tions of  the  Government.     It  sounded  very 
well,  no  duubt ;  but  every  one  knows  that  the 
intentions    of    a   guvernnieut   are    not   uu- 
changable,  that  they  may  change  them,  and 
that  they  have,  iu  f-ct,  ulready  done  so.    At 
the   time  of  the   loriuation   of  the   present 
Ministry,  did  not  the   Lower   Canada   Min- 
isters tell  their  friends  in  this  House,  and 


was  it  not  repeated  in  every  shape  by  their 
newspapers,   "Don't  be  uneasy,  Confedera- 
tion  will   not  be  carried  out."     The   Hon. 
CommissionPir  of  Public  AVorks  (Hon.  Mr. 
Chapais)   did   not  deny   having  stated   to 
a  priett  of  this  district,  "that  he  must  be 
quiet;  that  there  was  nothing  to  fear;  that 
Confederation    wo  Id    not   be    carried   out; 
that  the  whole  thio^  was  done  in  order  to 
entrap  the  great  Clear  Grit  leader  and  to  get 
rid  of  him  for  ever,  and  of  the  Lower  Ca- 
nada  Liberal   party."      (Hear,   hear.)      It 
seems  that  our  Lower  Canadian  Ministers  did 
not   take  into  account  the  pressure  of  the 
Upper   Canada   members,   nor   that  of  the 
delegates  from  the  Maritime  Provinces,  who, 
by   combining    together,   obtained   all   the 
concessions  they  desired  from  the  infinitesi- 
mal Lower  Canadian  minority  representing  us 
at  the  Conference  of  Quebec.     They  w.re 
told  that  Confederation  must  be  carried  out 
under  such  and  such  conditions;  and  these 
brave  patriots,  in  order  to  avoid  losing  their 
cherished   ministerial  places,  did  not  hesi- 
tate   to    sacrifice    their    fellow-countrymen. 
They    accepted    all    the    conditions    of  the 
Protestant    delegates,    and     now    they    are 
striving  to  induce  the  House,  and  particu- 
larly the  Lower  Canadian  members  of  it,  to 
ratify  their  shameful  concessions.     Unhap- 
pily lor  Lower  Canada,  I  iear  the  House 
will    vote    for    the    destructiun    of  French- 
Canadian  nationality  iu  this  province.  There 
is  one  important  point  which  must  not  be 
lost  sight  of,  namely,  that  the  great  majority 
of  the  Upper  Canadian  members  are  iu  favor 
of  Confederation,  because  everything  in  it  is 
entirely   to  their  advantage;  but  I  cannot 
conceive  how  a  majority  of  Lower  Canadian 
members   can  be   in  favor   of  the  mcusure. 
True,  many  of  these  members  are  repudiated 
by  their  counties,  and  do  not  represent  the 
opinions  of  the  majority  of  their  constituents 
on  this  question,  ana  it  is  certain  that  many 
of  those  who  will  vote  for  this  .scheme  will 
never  have  au  opportunity  of  voting  for  t'le 
project,  if  an  appeal  be  made  to  the  people. 
(Hear,  hear.)     With  reference  to  divorce,  I 
say   that    if  the   doctrines   of  the   Catholic 
religion  tell  us  that  it  is  wrong  and  crim- 
inal to  grant  it,  and  that  Catholics  cannot 
accept  it,  it  was  the  duty  of  our  Mini>ters 
at  the  Conference  to  do  all  in  their  power  to 
restrict  it.    True,  it  was  not  possible  to  pre- 
vent it  in  Upper  Canada  and  in  the    Mari- 
time   Provinces,    Lut    it    might   have   been 
done  as  regards   Lower  Canada;  and  if  it 
was  deemed  right  to  grant  the  power  of 


849 


legislatiDg   on    this    question,   it   ought   to 
have    been     given    to    the     local    govern- 
ments.     But  divorce   was   granted   in   this 
Vfuy    because    England    had    established   a 
special  tribunal  for  this  matter,  and  Eng- 
land desired  that  divorce  should  be  granted 
in    Lower    Canada    as    well    as    in    every 
other  province  of  British  North  America. 
Our  Lower  Canadian  Ministers  have  simply 
yielded  to  the   British  influence  which  lias 
been  omnipotent  in  the  Convention.    (Hear, 
hear.)     They  say   "  It  is  very  true  that  the 
Catholic  religion  prohibits  divorce,  but  vote 
in  favor  of  its  establishment;   for  if  you  do 
not,  the  Rouge  party  will  return   to  power 
and  destroy  ail  your  religious  institutions,  if 
you  give  tlaem  ihe  control  of  the  government 
of  the  country."   Well,  gentlemen  upholders 
of  religion,  ought  you  not  to  use  every  means 
to  prevent  these  dreadiul  Rouges  from  mak- 
ing use  of  the  law,  which  you  yourselves  are 
about  to  establish,  which  will  enable  them  to 
obtain    divorce   whenever    they  please,  and 
thus  to  insult    the  dogmas    and  doctrines  of 
the  Catholic  Church  ?     The  Hon.  Sol.  Gen. 
East  (Hon.  Mr.  Langevin)    gave  us,  the 
other  night,  what  he  pretended  were  satis- 
factory   explanations — satisfactory    to    him, 
perhaps — on  the  law  of  divorce.    Well,  Mr. 
Speake  ;,  let  us    examine   these  wonderful 
explanations.     That  hon.  gentleman  told  us 
thai  it  was  simply  a  law  authorizing  the  de- 
claration that  a  marriage  contracted  in  any 
of  the  confederated  provinces,  in  accordance 
with  the   laws  of  the   province  in  which  it 
was  contracted,  should  be  deemed  to  be  valid 
in  Lower  Canada  in  case  the  husband  and 
wife  came  to  reside  there.     Well,  I  ask  you, 
Mr.  Speaker,  it  there  was  any  necessity  !or 
making  this   provision  in  the  new  Constitu- 
tion ?     Would    not   a   marriage,  under   the 
present  Constitution,  contru.cted  under  the 
circumstances  referred  to  by  the  Hon .  Solicitor 
General  lor  Lower  Canada,  be  as  valid  as  it 
would  be  under  the  Confederation  ?  Certainly 
it  would  !     Then  what  do  the  Government 
mean  ?     I  ani  well  aware  that  the  Catholic 
members  from  Lower  Canada  will  not  admit  it, 
and  I  know  that  they  refused  to  believe  me 
when   I  made   the  assertion,  but   I  do   not 
hesitate   to   repeat   it  here,  thai   it   is  the 
intention  of  the  (Jonvention  to  legalize  civil 
marriages.     The  Lower  Canadian  section  of 
the   Ministry  has   not  ventured  to  admit  it, 
because   they  well   knew  that   they  would 
draw  down  upon  themselves  the  disapproba- 
tion of  the  clergy  of  the  country,  and  of  all 
their  fellow-countrymen.     If  the  power  con- 

108 


ferred  on  the  Federal  Legislature  in  relation 
to  this  nititter  means  anything  at  all,  it  is 
that  and  nothing  else,  and  all  the  explaiia- 
tious  given  by  the  Hon.  Solicitor  General 
for  Lower  Canada  and  his  colleagues  are 
utterly  valueless,  and  cannot  be  accepted  by 
the  Catholic  members.  Why  say  that  divorce 
will  be  permitted  ?  If  the  existing  law 
authorizes  divorce  now,  it  was  quite  unne- 
cessary to  make  a  new  law  on  the  subject, 
and  to  make  it  an  article  of  the  new  Consti- 
tution The  Government  takes  every  means 
in  its  power  to  conceal  the  real  intentions  of 
the  Conference  on  tliis  important  point  of 
the  scheme,  but  I  am  firmly  convinced  that 
their  object  is  perfectly  understood,  and  the 
future  will  prove  whether  or  not  I  am  mis- 
taken when  I  assert  that  it  is  intended  to 
make  civil  marriages  legal  in  this  country. 
One  of  the  reasons — and  the  only  one  which 
I  have  been  able  to  discover — for  whicli  the 
present  Government  has  granted  power  to 
the  Federal  Legislature  to  decree  divorce,  is 
that  the  Protestants  of  Lower  Canada  would 
never,  but  for  that  provision,  have  given 
their  support  to  the  Confederation  measure 
proposed  by  our  Ministers.  I  am  well  aware 
that  there  are  certain  Protestant  denomina- 
tions whose  doctrines  forbid  divorce,  but  I 
do  not  hesitate  to  say  that  the  only  reason  of 
the  concession  is  the  one  I  have  just  stated. 
Besides,  in  the  pamphlet  of  the  hon.  member 
for  Montmorency,  I  find  a  very  strong 
admission  :  — 

Catholic  opinion  urged  that  a  questiou  of  such 
social  importance  should  be  left  to  the  local 
governments,  but  Jet  it  be  understood  that  in 
leaviusc  it  as  regards  1/ower  Canada  to  a  Protest- 
ant  majority,  we  only  maintain  the  present  condi- 
tion of  that  important  question.  By  so  referring 
it  to  the  Federal  Groveinment,  we  avoid  many 
causes  of  contention  and  many  violent  complaints 
which  might  eventually  be  listened  to  by  the 
Mother  Country,  where  divorce  is  legalized  and 
operates  as  a  social  institution. 

"Who  can  say  that  the  Protestants — who  are  in 
great  majoiity  in  our  present  Parliament,  and  who 
will  constitute  the  two-thirds  of  the  Confederation 
— would  ever  have  consented  to  localize  legislation 
on  the  subject  of  divorce? 

The  hon  member  for  Moutmorsncy  knows 
just  as  well  as  I  do  that  the  Protestants  of 
Lower  Canada  would  not  have  liked  it,  and 
that  to  obtain  their  support,  it  has  been  said 
to  them,  "  Oh  yes,  let  us  concede  that  too  ; 
we  have  yielded  representation  by  popula- 
tion, let  us  also  give  thtm  divorce  and  any- 
thing else  they  like." 


85Q 


Hon.  Sol.  Gen.  LANGEVIN— Hear  ! 
hearl 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOISE— The  hon. 
member  may  exclaim  "  Hear,  hear,"  as  loudly 
and  as  often  as  he  likes,  but  those  who 
heard  him  deliver  the  (I  will  not  say  eloquent, 
becau:>e  that  would  not  be  true)  speech 
which  he  made  in  opposition  to  the  first 
reading  of  the  Benning  Divorce  Bill,  and 
who  now  behold  him  imposing  on  Catholics, 
who  do  not  desire  it,  the  consequences  of  a 
principle  which  we  then  refused  to  apply  to 
Protestants  who  sought  fur  it— those  I  say 
are  justified  in  believing  and  iu  saying  that 
the  Hon.  Solicitor  General  for  Lower  Canada 
has  either  renounced  his  former  opinions  on 
divorce,  inasmuch  as  he  authorizes  the 
Federal  Legif^lature  to  legislate  on  this  sub- 
ject, and  to  giaiit  divorces  either  to  Protest- 
ants or  Cathitlics,  and  either  to  Upper  or 
Lower  Canada,  or  he  could  not  have  been 
very  sincere  in  his  opposition  to  the  Benning 
Bill.  (Hear,  hear.)  There  is  one  certain 
fact,  and  that  is  that  the  Protestants  of 
Lower  Canada  have  said  to  the  Government, 
"  Pass  a  measure  which  shall  guarantee  to  us 
the  stability  and  protection  of  our  educational 
system  and  of  our  reli^iious  institutions,  and 
we  will  support  your  scheme  of  Confedera- 
tion ;  unless  you  do,  we  will  never  support 
you,  because  we  do  not  wish  to  place  our- 
selves at  the  mercy  of  a  Local  Legislature 
the  three-fourths  of  the  members 'of  which 
will  be  Catholics."  They  were  perfectly 
justifiable  in  acting  as  they  did,  although  it 
is  generally  admitted  that  we  Catholics  have 
much  more  liberality  than  the  Protestants — 
and  this  is  to  a  certain  extent  proved  by  the 
fact  that  several  of  cur  Lower  Canadian 
counties  are  represented  by  Protestants. 
I  do  not,  however,  Mr.  Speaker,  I  do 
not  wish  to  reproach  the  Protestant  min- 
ority of  Lower  Canada  for  having  pro- 
tected its  own  interests.  I  admit  that  in 
doing  this  they  have  only  done  their  duty ; 
for  who  can  say,  after  all,  what  ten  years 
may  bring  forth  ?  Ten  yeurs  hence  ideas 
may  be  changed  upon  this  question,  and  if 
it  be  true,  as  stated  by  the  Toron  to  Globft — and 
the  Minisliy  cannot  say  that  tlii.s  journal 
does  not  speak  the  truth,  as  it  is  the  organ 
of  the  present  Government — if  it  be  true 
that  the  Cath-  lie  clergy  are  an  encroaching 
body,  that  they  are  never  satisfied,  and  that 
they  seek  to  take  possession  of  all  they  see — 
if  that  be  true,  Mr.  Speaker,  who  will  say 
that  in  a  few  years  the  JiOwer  Canadians  will 
not  be   disposed   ♦<>  say   to    the   Protestant 


minority,  "  We  insist  that  all  the  schools 
should  be  Catholic,"  as  the  majority  in 
Upper  Canada  has  said  to  the  Catholic 
minority  there,  many  and  many  a  time,  and 
as  it  will  before  long  say  again  if  Confeder- 
ation takes  place.  (Hear,  hear.)  I  need 
not  say  that  I  do  not  believe  that  the 
Catholics  of  this  section  will  ever  push 
intolerance  to  that  extent ;  but  on  the  other 
hand,  I  cannot  but  approve  of  the  determin- 
ation of  the  Protestant  minority  to  protect 
themselves  from  all  eventualities  of  this 
nature  ;  and  for  the  same  rea.«on,  I  say  that 
we  also  ought  to  take  every  precaution,  and 
that  we  ought  not  to  suffer  our  dearest 
interests  to  be  at  the  mercy  of  a  Protestant 
majority  in  the  Federal  Legislature.  (Hear, 
hear.)  We  are  not  justified  in  asking  for 
any  concessions  which  we  are  not  ourselves 
prepared  to  yield.  (Hear,  hear.)  Before 
the  House  rose  at  six  o'clock,  I  stated,  Mr. 
Speaker,  that  the  plan  of  Confederation 
was,  so  to  speak,  trjced  word  for  word  upon 
the  famous  report  of  Lord  Durham.  With 
the  permission  of  the  House,  I  will  take  the 
liberty  of  reading  a  few  extracts  from  that 
report,  in  which  the  author,  after  having 
asserted  a  number  of  falsehoods  in  relation 
to  our  race,  which  I  will  not  trouble  the 
House  with  reading,  declares  that  we  ought 
to  be  merged  into  the  English  nationality. 
Observe  how  similar  the  ideas  of  the  noble 
lord  are  to  those  which  are  expres.'^ed  in 
the  plan  of  Confederation.  I  cite  for  the 
second  time  the  following  paragraph  : — 

Never  again  will  the  British  population  tolerate 
the  authority  of  a  House  of  Assembly  in  which 
the  French  shall  possess,  or  even  approximate 
to,  a  majority. 

Here,  Mr.  Speaker,  we  have  a  sentiment 
which  shews  that  England  lias  followed, 
step  by  step,  the  advice  of  Lord  Durham. 
The  hon.  member  for  South  Leeds  said  the 
other  night  that  he  hoped  ihat  we  should 
soon  attain  to  a  legislative  union.  Well,  a 
legislative  union  was  also  one  of  Lord  Dur- 
ham's dreams  I  proceed  to  read  another 
extract  from  his  report : — 

It  will  be  acknowledged  by  every  one  who  has 
observed  the  progress  of  Anglo-Saxon  coloniza- 
tion in  America,  that  sooner  or  Inter  the  English 
race  was  sure  to  predominate,  even  numtMii-ally, 
in  Lower  Canada,  as  they  predominate  already  by 
their  superior  knowledge,  energy,  enterprise  and 
we  ilth.  The  error,  ;herefore,  to  whieh  the 
present  contest  must  be  attributed,  is  the  vain 
endeavor  to  preserve  a  Freuch-Canadiau  nation- 


851 


ality  in  the  midst  of  Anglo-American  colonies 
and  states. 

A   little    further,    Mr.  Speaker,  I  read  as 
follows : — 

These  general  principles  apply,  however,  only  to 
those  changes  in  the  system  of  government  which 
are  reijuired  in  order  to  rectify  disorders  common 
to  all  the  North  American  colonies  ;  but  they  do 
not,  in  any  degree,  go  lo  remove  those  evils  in 
the  present  state  of  Lower  Canada,  which  requiie 
the  most  immediate  remedy.  The  fatal  feud  of 
origin,  which  is  the  cause  of  the  most  extensive 
mischief,  would  be  aggravated  at  the  present 
moment  by  any  change  which  should  give  the 
majority  more  power  than  they  have  hitherto 
possessed.  A  plan,  by  which  it  is  proposed  to 
insure  the  tranquil  government  of  Lower  Canada, 
must  include  in  itself  the  means  of  putting  an  end 
to  the  agitation  of  national  disputes  in  the  Legis- 
lature by  settling,  at  once  and  for  ever,  the 
national  character  of  the  province.  I  entertain 
no  doubts  as  to  the  national  character  which  must 
be  given  to  Lower  Canada — it  must  be  that  of 
the  British  Empire — that  of  the  majority  of  the 
population  of  British  America — that  of  the  great 
race  which  must,  in  no  long  period  of  time,  be 
predominant  over  the  whole  North  American 
continent.  Without  effecting  the  change  so 
rapidly  or  so  roughly  as  to  shock  the  feelings  and 
trample  on  the  welfare  of  the  existing  generation, 
it  must  henceforth  be  the  lirst  and  steady  purpose 
of  the  British  Government  to  establish  an  English 
population,  with  English  laws  and  language,  in 
this  province,  and  to  trust  its  government  to  none 
but  a  decidedly  English  Legislature. 

And  further  on  i  find  what  follows  : — 

It  may  be  said  that  this  is  a  hard  measure 
to  a  conquered  people  ;  that  the  French  were 
originally  the  whole,  and  still  are  the  bulk, 
of  the  population  of  Lower  Canada ;  that  the 
English  are  new  comers,  who  have  no  right 
to  demand  the  extinction  of  the  nationality 
of  a  people,  among  whom  commercial  enterprise 
has  drawn  them.  It  may  be  said  that  if  the 
French  are  not  so  civilized,  so  energetic,  or 
so  money-making  a  race  as  that  by  which  they 
are  surrounded,  they  are  an  amiable,  a  virtuous 
and  a  contented  people,  possessing  all  the  essen- 
tials of  material  comfort,  and  not  to  be  despised 
or  ill-u«ed  because  they  seek  to  enjoy  what  they 
have  without  emulating  the  spirit  of  accumula- 
tion which  influences  their  neighbors.  Their 
nationality  is,  after  all,  an  inheritance,  and  they 
must  not  be  too  sevei-ely  punished  because  they 
have  dreamed  of  maintaining,  on  the  distant  banks 
of  the  St.  Lawrence,  and  transmitting  to  their 
posterity  the  language,  the  manners  and  the  insti- 
tutions of  that  great  nation  that,  for  two  centuries, 
gave  the  tone  of  thought  to  the  European  conti- 
nent. Ff  the  disputes  of  the  two  races  are 
irreconcilable,  it  may  be  urged  that  justice 
demands  that  the  minority  should  be  compelled 


to  acquiesce  in  the  supremacy  of  the  ancient  and 
most  numerous  occupants  of  the  province,  and  not 
pretend  to  force  their  own  institutions  and  cus- 
toms on  the  majority. 

But  before  decidiug  which  of  the  two  races  is 
now  to  be  placed   in   the    ascendant,   it   is  but 
prudent  to  enquire  which  of  them  must  ultimately 
prevail ;  for  it  is  not  wise  to  establish  to-day  that 
which  must,  after  a  hard  struggle,  be  reversed  to- 
morrow.     The   pretensions  of  the  French-Cav.ar 
dians  to  the  exclusive  possession  of  Lower  Canada 
would  debar  the  yet  larger  English  population  of 
Upper  Canada  and  the  townships  from  access  to 
the   great   natural   channel   of  that  trade  which 
they  alone  have  created  and  now  carry  on.     The 
possession  of   the   mouth  of   the  St.  Lawrence 
concerns  not  only  those   who    happen  to    have 
made   their   settlements    along   the  narrow  line 
which  borders  it,  but  all  who  now  dwell,  or  will 
hereafter  dwell  in  the  great  basin  of  that  river. 
For   we    must  not   look   to   the    present  alone. 
The  questit)n    is,    by    what    race    is    it    likely 
that    the     wilderness     which    now    covers    the 
rich     and      ample      regions      surrounding     the 
comparatively  s^i.uU  and  contracted  districts  ia 
which     the    Fre.ie  -Canadians    are    located,    is 
eventually   to   be    converted   into  a  settled  and 
flourishing  country .'     If  this  is  to  be  done  in  the 
British  dominions  as  in  the  rest  of  North  America, 
by  some  speedier  process  than  the  ordinary  growth 
of  population,  it  must  be  by  immigration  from 
the  English  Isles  or  from  the  United  States — the 
countries     which  supply   the    only   settlers  that 
have  entered,  or  will   enter,   the  Canadas   in  any 
large  numbers.     This  immigration  can  neither  be 
debarred  from  a  passage  through  Lower  Canada, 
nor  even  be  prevented  from  settling  in  that  pro- 
vince.     The  whole  interior  of  the  British  domin- 
ions must,   ere   long,  be   filled  with   an  English 
population,    every    year  rapidly   increasing    its 
numerical  superiority  over  the  French.     Is  it  just 
that  the  prosperity  of  this  great  majority,  and  of 
this   vast  tract   of  country,  should  be  forever,  or 
even  for  a  while,   impeded  by  the   artificial   bar 
which  the  backward  laws   and  civilization  of  a 
part,  and  a  part   only,   of  Lower  Canada,   would 
place  between  them   and  the  ocean?     Is  it  to  be 
supposed  that  such  an  English   population  will 
ever  submit  to  such  a  sacrifice  of  its  interests? 

The  Fiench-Canadians,  on  the  other  hand,  are 
but  the  remains  of  an  ancient  colonization,  and 
are  and  ever  must  be,  isolated  in  the  midst  of  an 
Anglo-Saxon  world. 

And  is  this  French-Canadian  nationality  one 
which,  for  the  good  merely  of  that  people,  we  ought 
to  strive  to  perpetuate,  even  if  it  were  possible  ? 
I  know  of  no  national  distinctions  marking  and 
continuing  a  more  hopeless  inferiority.  The 
language,  the  laws,  the  character  of  the  North 
American  continent  are  English,  and  every  race 
but  the  English  (I  apply  this  to  all  who  speak 
the  English  language)  appears  there  in  a  condi- 
tion of  inferiority.  It  is  to  elevate  them  from 
that  i  ifiiority  that  I  desire  to  give  to  the_  Ca- 
nadians our  English  character.  .■-.>.■■■•.-  ,^ 
There  can  hardly^  beg  conceived  a  nationality 


852 


more  destitute  of  all  tli?t  can  invigorate  and 
elevate  a  people  than  that  which  is  exhibited  by 
the  descendants  of  the  French  in  J^ower  Canada, 
owing  to  their  retaining  their  peculiar  language 
and  manners.  They  *-e  a  people  with  no  history 
and  no  literature.  The  literature  of  England  is 
written  in  a  language  which  is  not  theirs,  and  the 
only  literature  which  their  language  renders 
familiar  to  them  is  that  of  a  nation  from  which 
they  have  been  separated  by  eighty  years  of  a 
foreign  rule,  and  still  more  by  those  changes 
which  the  revolution  and  its  consequences  have 
wrought  in  the  whole  political,  moral  and  social 
state  of  Prance. 

Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  Sir  Edmund  Head, 
when  he  called  us  an  inferior  race,  without 
our  French-Canadian  Ministers  protesting  in 
any  way  against  this  gross  and  foolish  insult 
— drew  his  inspiration  from  the  report  from 
which  I  have  just  cited  an  o.xtract,  and 
which,  from  its  first  to  its  last  page,  breathes 
the  most  bitter  hatred  of  all  that  bears  the 
French  name  or  stamp.  A  little  further  on 
Lord  Durham  continues  as  follows  : — 

In  these  circumstances  I  should  be  indeed  sur- 
prised if  the  more  reflecting  part  of  the  French- 
Canadians  entertained  at  present  any  hope  of 
continuing  to  preserve  their  nationality. 

Probably,  Mr.  Speaker,  Lord  Durham  was 
desirous  of  alluding  to  the  members  of  the 
present  Administration  who  to-day  evince  a 
disposition  to  sacrifice  their  nationality  for 
the  honors  and  titles  which  Lord  Durham 
counselled  the  Imperial  Govermenment  to 
bestow  on  those  of  our  reflecting  French- 
Canadians  who  would  rot  refuse  to  take  the 
gilded  bait  which  Great  Britain  might 
dangle  before  their  eyes.  I  continue  my 
citations  : — 

Lower  Canada  must  be  governed  now,  as  it 
must  be  hereafter,  by  an  English  population  ; 
and  thus  the  policy  which  the  necessities  of  the 
moment  force  upon  us,  is  in  accordance  with  that 
suggested  by  a  comprehensive  view  of  the  future 
and  permanent  improvement  of  the  province. 

A  little  further  on  Lord  Durham  pro- 
ceeds as  follows  : — 

It  is  proposed  either  to  place  the  legislative 
authority  in  a  governur,  with  a  council  tormed  of 
the  heads  of  the  British  party,  or  to  contrive 
some  scheme  of  representation  by  which  a 
minority,  with  the  forma  of  representation,  is  to 
deprive  a  majority  of  all  voice  in  the  management 
of  its  own  affairs. 

The  plan  of  Confederation  now  submitted 
for  our  adoption  is  exactly  that  dreamt  of 
by  Lord  Durham.      Our  Ministers  have 


copied  it,  so  to  spenk,  word  for  word.  Lord 
Du  ham  indicates  all  its  essential  points  ; 
and  if  I  cite  his  report,  it  is  with  the  view 
of  proving  that  the  real  author  of  the  Con- 
federation, which  it  is  sought  to  impose 
upon  us,  is,  in  fact,  Lord  Durham  himself. 
(Hear,  hear.)  I  quote  again  from  his 
report : — 

The  only  power  that  can  be  effectual  at  once  in 
coercing  the  present  disaffection  ani  hereafter 
obliterating  the  nationality  of  the  French-Cana- 
dians, is  that  of  the  numerical  majority  of  alnyal 
and  English  population  ;  and  the  only  stable 
government  will  be  one  more  popular  than  any 
that  has  hitherto  existed  in  the  North  American 
colonies.  The  influence  of  perfectly  equal  and 
popular  institutions  in  effacing  distinctions  of 
race  without  disorder  or  oppression,  and  with 
little  more  than  the  ordinary  animosities  of  pat  ty 
in  a  free  country,  is  memorably  exemplified  in 
the  history  of  the  State  of  Louisiana,  the  laws 
and  population  of  which  were  French  at  the  time 
of  its  cession  to  the  American  union.  And  the 
eminent  success  of  the  policy  adopted  with  regard 
to  that  state  points  out  to  us  the  means  by 
which  a  similar  result  can  be  effected  in  Lower 
Canada, 

Lord  Durham  was  perfectly  correct  in  sug- 
gesting the  adoption  of  this  policy.  He  did 
not  wish  to  put  his  foot  on  our  necks,  but 
he  advised  that  we  should  be  made  to  dis- 
appear little  by  little  under  English  influ- 
ence, and  when  we  should  be  weak  enough 
to  be  no  longer  dangerous,  then  that  we 
should  have  the  coup  de  grdce.  As  in 
Louisiana,  our  nationality  was  to  disappear 
under  the  influence  of  foreign  elements. 

Mr.  SCOBLE— Will  the  hon.  gentleman 
permit  me  to  observe  to  him,  that  it  is  only 
justice  to  the  memory  of  that  great  states- 
man to  say,  that  he  wrote  his  report  having 
only  in  view  a  legislative  union,  and  that 
circumstances  have  changed  sirce  that  dat  ? 
Now  we  are  only  discussing  a  Conledcration, 
and  consequently  Lord  Durham's  views  do 
not  apply  to  it. 

Hon.  Mr.  LAFRAMBOTSE— I  think 
that  the  plin  conceived  by  Lord  Duuil.^M 
was  that  of  a  lecislntive  union  and  a  Con- 
federation of  all  the  Biiti'h  North  Aiaericnn 
Provinces.  We  are  about  to  begin  with 
Confederation,  but  we  shall  fiiii.^li  with  a 
legislative  union.  Confederation,  as  has 
been  W(  11  observed  by  that  eminent  states- 
n)an,  is  the  first  step  to  a  legislative  union. 
•'  Act  with  prudence,"  ho  says  in  his  fais  ous 
report  to  the  British  Gover'ment  ;  "  we 
must  not  crush  the  Fr  ench  race  too  suddenly 


853 


in  these  colonies ;  they  might  resist  and  give 
trouble,  but  make  use  of  diplomacy,  lavish 
honors  and  titles  oa    their  leading  men,  and 
perhaps  you  will  succeed."     I  am  convinced 
that  we  shall  have  a  legislative  union  in  a 
very  few  years  if  the  plan   of  Confederation 
is  adopted,  and  I  am   not  the  only  one  who 
says  (=0,  for  the  other  night  the  hon.  member 
for  South   Leeds   stated  in   this  House  that 
in  a  short  time  we  should  have  a  legislative 
union  and  ail  its  consequences.     Well,  Mr. 
Speaker,  if  we  are  threatened  in  this  way, 
the  hoa.  member  fir  South  Leeds  ought  not 
to  be  sarpiised  that  as  a  Lower  Canadian  I 
have  something  to  say  against  the  opinions 
expressed  by  Lord  Durham   in   his  report. 
I  can   perfectly   understand   that  he  could 
not  possibly  have  the  feelings    of  a  Lower 
Canadian,  and  that  he  could  not  consequently 
feel  as  I  can  feel,  the  affront  and  the  wrong 
which  that  statesman  inflicted  on  my  fellow- 
countrymen.     (Hear,  hear.j     But   neither, 
on  the  other  hand,  does  he  feel  as  I  do  that 
the    plan  of  Confederation   will    bring   the 
French-Canadian  race  to  the  social  condition 
conceived  and  predicted  by   the   noble  lord 
whose  report  I  have  just  cited.     That  hon. 
tiiember.  as  an  Englishman  and  a  Protestant, 
is    in    favor    of    a    legislative     union,    in 
preference  to  any  other  system   of  govern- 
ment.    He  would  behold  with  pleasure  but 
one    race — and    that   the   British  race — in- 
habiting these  colonies  of  Great  Britain.     I 
do   not   blame    him    for    these    sentiments, 
which  are  perfectly  justifiable  when  held  by 
an  Englishman;  but,  on  the  other  baud,  I 
am   thoroughly   convinced  that  he  will  not 
deem   it    a    strange    thing    that   a   French- 
Canadian  should  entertain  entirely  different 
views  on  these  points.     (Hear,  hear.)    Thus, 
Mr.  Speaker,  that  great  statesman.  Lord 
DyRHA^M,    the    riost   dangerous    enemy    of 
French  nationality,  makes  use  of  the  follow- 
ing language  in  bis  famous  report : — 

If  you  are  desirous  of  gaining  over  the  politi- 
cal leaders  of  the  Lower  Canadians,  act  as  fol- 
lows: — Begin  by  giving  them  offices,  titles  and 
honors  of  every  kind ;  flatter  their  vanity,  give 
them  a  va?t  field  in  which  to  satisfy  their  ambi- 
tion. 

Lord  Durham  came  into  this  country  after 
the  rebellion,  and  perceived  that  his  pre- 
decessors in  the  government  had  been  guilty 
of  political  errors  which  had  alienated  the 
French-Canadians  from  Great  Britain,  and 
be  thought  that  he  ought  to  leave  behind 
him,  to  serve  as  a  guide  to  his  successors, 


that  famous  report  in  which  he  has  collected 
together  all  the  means  th  it  diplomacy  could 
furnish  him  with,  to  crush  out  a  nationality 
which  he  saw   with    regret  living   happily 
and  contentedly  on  the  soil  of  its  birth,  and 
from  which   it  drew  its  sustenance.      Lord 
Durham,  like  the  hou.  member  for  South 
Leeds  would   have    preferred    a    logis'at  ve 
union   of  all  the   British  Provinc3s   to  the 
union  of  the  two  Canadas  ;  but  the  British 
Government    considered    it    more    prudent 
to  begin   with  this   partial  union,  knowing 
well  that  later  it  would  easily  find  the  means 
of  accomplishing  a  legislative  union.     Eng- 
land  reasoned  in  this  way  :  if  wo  give  the 
English  race  time  to  develope  it^eif,  we  can 
easily,  at  some  future  period,  impose  a  legis- 
lative union  on  the  French-Canadians      To- 
day   the    Canadian    Government,   accepting 
the  views  of  Lord  Durham,  come  down  and 
ask  us  to  take  this  first  step  towards  annihil- 
ation,   by    accepting    Confederation,    which 
they  present  to  us  in  the  most  brilliant  and 
tempting  guise.     (Hear,  hear.;     For  want 
of  argument,  they  say  such  things  as  these 
to  excuse  the  culpable  step  which  they  are 
ready  to  take — "What  is  the  use  of  resisting? 
We  must  have  sooner  or  later  the  Confeder- 
ation now  proposed  to  you,  and  u  timately  a 
legislative  union  ?"     Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  I 
think,  for    my    part,  that   we    might   easily 
escape  this  last  danger  to  our  nationality,  if 
all  the  Catholics  and   French-Canadians  in 
this  House  were  to  league   themselves  to- 
gether   to    defeat    the    measure    before    us, 
which  denies  to   the  latter  that  legitimate 
influence  which  they  ought  to  have  in  the 
Federal  Government.     Why  not  concede  to 
us  the  guarantees  and  concessions  which  we 
have  given  to  our  fellow-countrymen  of  other 
origins  ?  TheLower  Canadian  Ministers,  who 
have  not  insisted  upon  obtaining  for  us  that 
protection,  have  rendered  themse'iv^  highly 
culpable    towards    their   fellow-countrymen. 
(Hear,  hear.)      Under    the  Federal  union, 
Lower  Canada  can   never   h;ive    aore  than 
sixty-five  members   in    the  Federal  Legisla- 
ture, notwithstaniing    the    expla  latioos    to 
the  contrary  made  on  this  head  by  the  Hon. 
Solicitor  General  East.     All  who    have  dis- 
cussed the  question  in  tisis  House  conld  nOi 
do  otherwise  than  admit  it.     Well,  notwith 
standing  this  injustice,  and  notwithstinding 
any  increase  that  our   population  may  attain 
under  the  Federal  regime,  our  representation 
will  always  remain  at  the  same  figure,  and 
we  shall  pay  our  share  of  the  public  debt  in 
the  ratio  of  the  number  of  our  population. 


854 


Well,  Mr.  Speaker,  is  there  not  injustice 
in  this  provision  ?     We  have  been  told  that 
we  shall  have  the  management  of  our  public 
lands.     I  admit  that  this  would  be  of  great 
benefit   to   us,   if  we   were  in   a  position  to 
assure  those  who  might  settle  in   our  midst 
that  they  would  have  a  voice  in  the  councils 
of  the  nation.    But  no,  Mr.  Speaker  ;  im- 
migration  to   this   country    will    always    be 
impossible  under  the  Confederation  perparing 
.    for  us,  and  it  will  be   diverted   towards  the 
territories    of    Upper    Canada,    where    the 
settlers  can  be  represented  in  the  Provincial 
Legislature,    where    the    climate    is    more 
favorable  and   the   soil  more   fertile.       But 
from  another  point  of  view,  can  we  consider 
advantageous  to  Lower  Canada  the  possession 
and    administration    of    its    public    domain 
under  the  circumstances   in  which  we  shall 
be    placed    by    Coufederatioa  ?      Assuredly 
not,  and  for  this  reason  :  each  province  is  to 
assume  its  public  lands,  with  the  debts  due 
upon    the    lands.       On     the    public    lands 
situated  in  Upper  Canada,  and  which   she 
is  to  assume,  there  is  a  debt  of  six  millions 
of  dollars  due    to   the   province,   whilst  on 
those  in  Lower  Canada  there  is  only  a  debt 
of  one  million,   consequently  Upper  Canada 
will  obtain  from  Lower  Canada  a  claim  for 
five  million  of  dollars  in  excess  of  that  which 
she  yields  to  Lower  Canada.     Here  we  have 
on'^  of  the  few  great  advantages  which  have 
been  pointed  out  to  us  since  the  beginning 
of    the    discussion  ;    and    I    ask   you,    Mr. 
Speaker,   whether   it  is   advantageous   to 
Lower   Canada?      On   the    contrary,    while 
highly  advantageous    to   Upper    Canada,  it 
is   grossly    unjust   to    Lower    Canada.      Is 
it   not  evideut    that    the    Confederation   is 
entirely  for  the  beriefit  of  Upper  (!anada? 
And  is  not  a  sufficient  proof  of  it  to   be 
found  in  the  fact  that  we  find  in  this  House 
but  two'or  tliree  members  from  that  section 
of  the   province    who    are    opposed    to    the 
scheme  ?     If  all  the  members  from  Upper 
Canada,  to  what  party  soever  they  may  be- 
long, unite  to-day  to  support  the  scheme  of 
the  Grovernment,  it  is  because  they  perfectly 
understand   that  everything   ha-   been   con- 
ceded to  them,  and  that  they  have  obtained 
all  that  they  wished  for — all  ihe  concessions 
that  they  sought  for,   and  for   which   they 
labored  and  struggled  so  energetically  and 
so  long.     (Hear,  hear  )     That  is  perfectly 
well  understood.      Hut  if  influences  hostile 
to  ]jower  Canada,  which   worked  against  us 
during  the  preparation   in    England  of  the 
law  rcspeeiing  the  change  iu  the  coDstitutiou 

« 


of  the  Lesrislative  Council,  had  not  caused 
the   removal   fro:a   the    Union    Act   of  the 
clause  requiring  the  assent  of  two-thirds  of 
the  members  of  the  Legislature  to  eifect  a 
change  in  the  basis  of  our  representation  — 
if  those  influences  had  not  worked    to  re- 
move that  safeguard  of  our  interests.  Upper 
Canada  would  never  have  been  so  persistent 
in  striving  to  obtain  representation  based  on 
population.     She  would  have  seen  the  iaa- 
possibility  of  obtaining  it,  and  the  inutility 
of  asking  for  it,  and  would,  in  coasequeuce, 
have  abandoned  it.      But  from  the  moment 
when    that  clause    was    removed    from    the 
Union  Act,  it  was  competent  to  the  Legisla- 
ture to  enact  a  change  iu  the  Constitution  by 
a  mere  majority  •  and   it  may  consequently 
be  said  that  through   that  influence  which 
worked    against    us,    Upper    Canada    now 
obtains  re|  resentation  based  on   population. 
(Hear,  hear.)     The  members    from   Upper 
Canada  will  observe  that  I  do  not  malntam 
that  the   principle   of  representation   based 
upon  population  is  in  itself  an  unjust  prin- 
ciple ;  but  I  maintain  that  as   they  refused 
us  the  appiication  of  it  when  the  population 
of  Lower   Canada   was  in   a   majority,  it  ia 
unjust  of  them  to  demand   it   now   because 
they  are  in  ii  majority,  and  I  cannot  see  by 
what  right  they  wish  to